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⭕Jennifer Pan - Police interrogation - Girl who hired hitmen to kill her parents - Part 2 — Transcript

by Red Circle Interrogations and Confessions · 27,896 words · 4,605 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:11foreign
0:18okay Jennifer I'm going to explain this
0:20sworn video statement form and as I've
0:23we're now being recorded
0:25this is not new to you we've done this
0:27once before okay I want to take before
0:31we get this try and take that first
0:34interview that we had which was you know
0:36hours after what what had transpired put
0:39it aside it's almost like we've never
0:41spoken before okay so we're starting
0:43tofresh we're starting from new that way
0:46you're not going to say I think I
0:47already told him that don't worry about
0:48what you've already told me
0:50so
0:52this is a statement of Jennifer Pan and
0:54the incident number is uh for the murder
0:57investigation is three one zero one
1:00eight eight of 2010. Jennifer do you
1:03ever do you understand that everything
1:04that's being said in this room is being
1:06videotaped yes
1:09okay my name is uh Randy Slade and I'm a
1:12detective with the York Regional Police
1:13my badge number is 531. there's no one
1:16else present in the room other than you
1:17and I and monitoring this statement next
1:19to us is Deborah Gladding
1:26uh today is Thursday November the 11th
1:292010.
1:31the time on what my watch is 9 43.
1:36in the morning we are presently
1:38videotaping at five district in the town
1:40of Markham
1:42in the regionalist party of York
1:44um is there anything we're back to this
1:46question again about is there anything
1:48else I need to know in order to better
1:50understand your statement and that is do
1:51you suffer from any mental illness have
1:53you been drinking did you take any drugs
1:55no drugs no drinking so there's nothing
1:58that's going to influence your statement
2:09don't be nervous
2:11okay I know that's tough to say but
2:13don't be nervous the truth
2:16is always the best way to relieve
2:19anxiety okay
2:22we're investigating an allegation of
2:26murder
2:31of your mom
2:32pan
2:35as a part of our investigation of that
2:37Fest if offense I would like to
2:39interview on videotape and under oath
2:41saw my information or solemn declaration
2:44it is my obligation to advise you of
2:46certain information before we commence
2:48this statement
2:50just wanted
2:55redundant remember me telling you about
2:57that
3:01so just to reiterate we're in the middle
3:03are starting the middle portion of the
3:06video KGB I've just turned on my digital
3:08audio recorder just just in case for
3:09Fail-Safe measures it's now 9 45 we
3:13began the video statement portion at 9
3:1543 and I'm just at the portion of the
3:18video statement form
3:21um Jennifer can you spell your name for
3:22me
3:26and last name p-a-n okay so it's my
3:29obligation to advise you of certain
3:31information before we commence this
3:33statement you may be a witness in court
3:35concerning the events you're about to
3:37describe in your statement if at any
3:38time you change your statement or claim
3:40not to remember the events the contents
3:42of this video statement you give now may
3:44be used as evidence in court do you
3:46understand yes
3:50and for the audio recording just to date
3:52it it's the 11th of November and I
3:54already said 9 45.
3:56um
3:59these are the criminal code sanctions
4:01remember I told you the explaining of
4:03the of the facts of that there's certain
4:05penalties for not telling the truth or
4:07misleading the police
4:09it's also my obligation to advise you
4:11that fabricating evidence with the
4:13intent to mislead is an offense under
4:15section 137 of the criminal code and if
4:18you give a false statement under oath
4:19you may be charged with fabricating
4:21evidence if convicted of fabricating
4:23evidence you could be sentenced up to 14
4:24years in jail
4:26it is also an offense under section 139
4:28of the criminal code to obstruct by
4:30willfully attempting to obstruct pervert
4:32or defeat the course of Justice and you
4:34may be charged if you obstruct Justice
4:36if convicted of obstructing justice you
4:38could be sentenced up to 10 years in
4:40jail
4:41it is also an offense under section 140
4:43of the criminal code to commit public
4:45Mischief by causing a police officer to
4:47start or continue an investigation by
4:49making a false statement that accuses
4:51some other person of committing an
4:53offense and you may be charged if you
4:55commit public Mischief you've convicted
4:57a public Mischief you could be sentenced
4:58up to five years in jail
5:00if you were charged with one or more of
5:02the above fences this statement may be
5:04used as evidence against you do you
5:06understand the criminal sanctions I've
5:07explained to you yes
5:11yes do you understand the criminal
5:12consequences of making a false statement
5:14yes
5:16do you understand that it's your choice
5:17to get whether or not you want to give a
5:19statement yes
5:22yes do you understand the importance of
5:23telling truth in regards to this
5:25investigation
5:28if you've spoken to a police officer any
5:30person in Authority in connection with
5:31this investigation I wanted to clearly
5:33understood I don't want it to influence
5:35you in making a statement do you
5:36understand that yes
5:38have any questions
5:43are you prepared to give a video
5:44statement under oath or Solomon sorry
5:47solemn affirmation or Declaration at
5:49this time yes
5:51I'm just going to bring the commissioner
5:52in
5:53and then we can get on with it
6:04hello I'm Sonia faccini I'm a
6:07commissioner and I'm just going to swear
6:08you in for your statement
6:10will you be swearing on the Bible or
6:12were you okay
6:14just place your right hand there please
6:20and your first name is Jennifer yes last
6:23name of pan yes okay
6:25do you Jennifer Penn swear declare that
6:28the evidence that you've given this
6:30investigation shall be the truth the
6:32whole truth and nothing but the truth
6:33will help you God yes
6:47thank you
6:49thank you
6:57yeah
6:58Okay so
7:02what we're going to do now is as I said
7:04what what education level do you have
7:07just the high school high school have
7:10you gone to any other like after a
7:13higher level of Education have you been
7:14working towards anything uh I'm going
7:16back to school and I have been working
7:18on the piano education okay there's no
7:20other education that you've sought like
7:22you haven't gone to University at this
7:23point in time
7:25okay so
7:27um
7:28so I want
7:30I want you
7:32to forget
7:35or put aside the first statement that we
7:37had talked about
7:38okay
7:40this is going to be where I'm going to
7:43ask you to start from the day
7:45okay on the eighth
7:48leading up until when you when the
7:50police become involved in an incident
7:52that takes place in your house I want
7:54you to tell me about your day what you
7:55do your interaction with your parents
7:58okay so we're at what we are is we're
8:01dealing with the incident we're not
8:02dealing with your history right now
8:03we're dealing with the incident again
8:05see if anything else comes
8:07forgetting what you've already told me
8:10and bring you throughout self through
8:11that day and through the event
8:13and we'll see if what we're going to see
8:15if we've learned or if you've remembered
8:17anything else
8:18and there's some questions with respect
8:20to that statement that I'm going to ask
8:22you about okay but I'm going to let you
8:24start again and and let's let's move
8:27forward from any time in that day where
8:29you want to start if it's a time you
8:30woke up or if it's a time that your
8:32first interaction it's your choice okay
8:34I'm just
8:36I'm very nervous and I
8:38why are you let's why are you why are
8:40you nervous tell me about why you're
8:42nervous because I don't want to say the
8:45wrong things oh yeah so that day was
8:49a lot you're right and I've been
8:53scattered and so bits and pieces are
8:56here and some pieces aren't here and
9:00I'm just so
9:02I want you to sit back in your chair
9:04okay just sit back in your chair take a
9:07deep breath okay close your eyes just
9:10follow my line just sit back in the
9:12chair for a second sit back relax the
9:16best you can
9:17close your eyes
9:21and just breathe for a minute
9:23okay
9:32we're not in any type of danger we're
9:35nowhere we're in a very safe place
9:37okay
9:41and we're going to work through this and
9:43don't worry about what you forget or
9:44what you mix up or whatever you're doing
9:46is
9:48you start and push the play button for
9:51that day
9:53and if you stick to
9:55everything that you remember happening
9:57that day it will come out in sequence
10:00okay and I'm going to show you a
10:02technique after we go through this that
10:04will that will show it to you okay
10:06so let's just start you've taken a deep
10:09breath you've relaxed you're in a good
10:10position right there let's start from
10:13the beginning of the day when you wake
10:14up and let's start moving forward from
10:16there
10:19what I can remember is
10:23had some breakfast
10:25and I went upstairs to do some piano
10:28history and I was on the computer
10:31what time is that around
10:38I'm not 100 sure time is it like is it
10:41you know time is important meaning is it
10:43is it in the beginning of the is it
10:45morning is the light out is in the
10:47afternoon
10:49maybe before noon before noon sometime
10:52before noon yes okay before noon
10:56um
10:57I play some Facebook games so I was
11:00doing that and then
11:02I stopped and then I was doing some
11:04studying for my piano like I said I was
11:07working towards a piano degree in
11:09teaching
11:10so I was uh reading some history notes
11:13and going over some practice examination
11:16papers
11:19who's in the house at that time
11:22my father has left for work and my
11:23mother's home okay where's your mom do
11:26you know where she is
11:33I don't remember at this point okay I'm
11:36getting the last few days all mixed up
11:40together uh I believe she had left
11:44with my aunt to go and visit my
11:47grandfather that morning or early
11:49afternoon
11:51he is residing what
11:54sorry he resigned resided at Montreal
11:59nursing home and he had just gotten back
12:01from the hospital
12:04Saturday okay
12:06so she went in
12:08I don't remember she took my aunt but
12:09she went in to see if she could see how
12:13the nurse the nurse got any updates on
12:16him and see if she could feed him
12:20um when she had left she had called me
12:23and she asked me to come out because
12:26there were some police officers on the
12:28street
12:29and I went out and I asked the police
12:32officers came up and they said that
12:34there was a gas leak on our street and
12:37to exit our exit our house
12:41so I said uh if it would be possible
12:43could I go in and grab a jacket because
12:44I was still in just regular clothes
12:48so I went in and when I came out my
12:51mother said that they wouldn't let her
12:52take out the car either so we were gonna
12:54we decided to we were going to walk
12:56across the street to a relative's house
12:58there
13:00and before we could get to our
13:01relative's house the officers got a
13:05message or a memo from an from their
13:07fellow officers saying that our side was
13:10Secure and that it might be from another
13:11area
13:13so from there I went back into the house
13:15do you remember what time that was
13:18again it was before noon before noon
13:20okay
13:21I'm pretty sure it was before noon so
13:24before noon and now your mom's come back
13:26from no not yet she's she's on it she
13:28was leaving to go away okay
13:31so she left to go pick up my aunt and go
13:35in to my grandfather's and I went back
13:37up to on the computer to do a little
13:40studying taking a break and playing some
13:43games
13:46um
13:48do you remember speaking to anyone
13:50during the day on your on your phone or
13:52on the on Facebook
13:57later on in the day yes I spoke to a
14:00long time friend Andrew who I went to
14:02elementary school with
14:04um but just the usual he
14:08he just asked if we could hang out
14:10anytime soon but I explained to him that
14:12I wasn't able to leave the house
14:15and I couldn't meet up with him so I
14:17asked him how his life was how was his
14:19girlfriend how his job was going
14:22um I believe that was later on in the
14:24day though that wasn't in the afternoon
14:26we'll go in later in the and when we
14:28talk about your past about why you
14:30couldn't leave the house okay so that
14:32isn't that hasn't gone unnoticed but
14:34we're not going to talk about that right
14:35now we're talking about that day so
14:37continue on
14:40um
14:40I think my mom came home at about
14:44three or so I'm not sure where she went
14:48with my aunt
14:49she uh came home and unpacked and
14:52started preparing dinner
14:56um
14:57my father came home
15:02my father came home about
15:05for
15:0620 4 30. it was later than he usually
15:09does he normally comes home about ten to
15:11four
15:12when my mother asked him where he had
15:15been he had said he had forgotten to
15:17lock his toolbox at work or
15:20something about along the lines of he
15:23had to go back to work because he had
15:25forgotten to close something or lock
15:28something up where does your dad work
15:31um Kobe and style
15:34um Middle Field and
15:38self-definch okay continue so he comes
15:41he's home now late at 4 24 30. 4 30 and
15:45he phoned and
15:47Uncle Nam if he wanted to go to go buy
15:50some
15:51like heat covers and a USB pen
15:56so he immediately left not shortly after
15:59that maybe 4 30 a little bit after that
16:02and on Monday nights my mother goes
16:04dancing so we should finish dinner and
16:09me and her ate dinner first what time
16:11did you guys have dinner around
16:145 5 30.
16:16and then she had then my father came
16:19home and he had dinner and what time did
16:22your dad get home
16:30so sometime between 6 and 6 30 because
16:32my mother was able to clean up before
16:35going out to dancing when your dad comes
16:38home do you remember seeing what type of
16:39bags he was carrying when he came in
16:41I wasn't downstairs when he came through
16:43the door I had gone upstairs already
16:45okay so you don't know where he went
16:48shopping at um all I know is that when I
16:51came down to greet him after he'd come
16:52home
16:53showed me this
16:55Heating cover that he had
16:58didn't have a label on it didn't you
17:00didn't he took it out of the bag or he
17:02did he just showed me the
17:04the cover itself he didn't
17:06did you see the USB stick I believe the
17:09USB stick was for my uncle if they
17:11bought it or not I don't know I'm not
17:13sure okay so it's now six to six thirty
17:16because your dad's now home and eating
17:18and your mom said you say your mom
17:19cleans up yeah and then she leaves at
17:21seven
17:22and my father goes up to his computer
17:24like he normally does yes and he's on
17:27the computer watch like news I'm not
17:29sure what he's doing I'm in my room well
17:33I believe at this point I had called my
17:35friend
17:36hang on let's make sure I got to make
17:39sure that the the tape recorders didn't
17:40just click off okay because we had a bit
17:42of a power flicker so just give me a
17:44second
17:51okay so we're still we're still
17:57okay so we're at uh we're at seven
18:00o'clock right and your mom's getting
18:02ready to go
18:03so continue on
18:08so she leaves and I my friend Adrian had
18:12asked if we would do our movie night
18:14like we normally do he comes over with
18:17TV shows uh some of our favorites to
18:20watch
18:21um together
18:24so he had to come over I'm sorry I this
18:27the timeline's a little off he had come
18:30over around
18:32I think I told him I've messaged him
18:34around six o'clock he came over about 6
18:3620 6 30. what did and when you say
18:39message him was it Facebook or was it
18:41your phone text message and what was the
18:42phone which phone is it that you use
18:44which phone number uh my Rogers you're
18:47Roger's phone and 647. uh
18:52965-2118 okay so that's the message and
18:55is that the First Communication you had
18:57with him that day I think I had messaged
18:59him at three o'clock you know he had
19:01messaged me around
19:02in the afternoon sometime asking me if
19:04it was TV was on tonight okay and then I
19:06had messaged him I'm done you can come
19:09over whenever I think that was just the
19:12message I
19:13so what time does he arrive again
19:18so your mom and dad are both home my
19:20parents are home and he
19:22[Music]
19:24and he can ask him how everything was
19:26going and then my mom had left for uh
19:30dancing and we were downstairs watching
19:34um
19:36that day we watched Gossip Girl and How
19:39I Met Your Mother
19:41um is this are these live TV shows are
19:43these recordings uh he he brings them on
19:46a USB pen okay when your Mom leaves what
19:49is she wearing
19:51I didn't pay attention do you remember
19:53what she was wearing when you were
19:54having dinner she was wearing her
19:56pajamas when we were having dinner what
19:58do they look like
20:00um they're like green with like Winnie
20:02the Pooh okay
20:05um
20:06So when you say when she leaves to go
20:08out would she have changed yes because I
20:11was like I said my friend came around
20:12like 6 30 so we were already downstairs
20:15watching movies but when she went up to
20:18change quickly and go to her dance class
20:20at seven okay okay and what car does she
20:22take when she leaves she takes the
20:24Alexis is that the only car she drives
20:25uh pretty much my father drives his
20:28Mercedes and my mother drives the Lexus
20:31do they have like parents have different
20:33kinds of routines do they have a routine
20:35where they park the car in the garage
20:37out of the garage normally inside but uh
20:40if we plan to go out again
20:44um we park our car outside but only the
20:47Lexus so my mother when she came home
20:49from like I said going out with my aunt
20:51she had parked the car outside okay so
20:54when my friend came he parked it beside
20:56her okay
20:58closer to the door and where do they
21:00usually in the garage is there do they
21:02just take either side or do they uh the
21:04Lexus IS normally on
21:06on when facing the house when looking at
21:08the house uh left side left side is
21:10Alexis and the Mercedes is on the right
21:13closer to the door okay no other cars in
21:15the house belong to just those two
21:18okay so your mom's goes did you see her
21:22change her clothes unfortunately I was
21:24watching
21:26I was just watching my TV and where were
21:28you watching in the basement in the
21:30basement so when you say that she's
21:33wearing her her pajamas and
21:36she goes upstairs and change is that
21:38something you know or you're speculating
21:40no for sure she has to change into
21:42regular clothes to go and go dancing
21:44okay that's something that
21:47I didn't see it but I know for sure that
21:49that's what she does okay so your mom
21:51goes and where's your dad at this point
21:53he is uh well like I said around 6 30 he
21:56was just finishing up dinner
21:59he goes upstairs and goes on the
22:01computer
22:02so let's talk about the layout of the
22:03house before we move on any further here
22:06you're in the basement yes okay
22:09um and it's just the two of you you and
22:11Adrian yes the main level the ground
22:14level what's on the ground level
22:16um what we call our
22:22caller behind that
22:24okay and then beside the family room is
22:28our kitchen
22:29so are they in separate locations living
22:32room dining room or is it living is it
22:34dining room dining room by more than a
22:36half like a there's a wall but there is
22:39a way to walk from living room dining
22:41room living room are combined sorry okay
22:43uh but to go to the family room there's
22:45like a wall
22:47but there is like a
22:49um not a doorway but like a
22:50opening yes to go through and the
22:53kitchen is where
22:56in the front back side the back of the
22:59house the back of the house yeah okay
23:01you go up the stairs what's what's on
23:03the stairs where what's upstairs how
23:04many bedrooms are up there four bedrooms
23:06but one we use as a study and where is
23:09the study located
23:10um that's the front of the house beside
23:12my parents uh
23:14my parents bedroom okay and where's your
23:16bedroom located um um the back of the
23:19house and is there another bedroom back
23:22there too there's more bedroom back
23:24there and that's used for my brother or
23:26my cousin depending on who comes home
23:29okay your cousin who's uh his name is
23:32Curtis and he goes to school in Waterloo
23:35okay
23:36during Co-op season the last Co-op
23:38season he co-opt in Toronto so he stayed
23:41with us for four months Curtis's last
23:43name okay
23:47we'll get to Curtis after so now we're
23:49back your your dad is upstairs did you
23:53see him go to the computer room like I
23:54said you're speculating yes that's what
23:57his normal routine is that's his normal
23:58routine you're in the basement yes
24:01did you hear me your mom leave yes yes
24:03okay and how do your parents leave when
24:07they're taking their cars now this time
24:08you say the car was out in the driveway
24:09did you hear how did when you say you
24:11heard your mom leave how what what where
24:13did she go out because uh with how the
24:16house is laid out the stairwell is in
24:19the middle of the house so she would
24:20have to walk
24:25she would have to walk across the stairs
24:29to go to the front door
24:31so I I heard her pass through okay and
24:35leave through the front door
24:37if you park your cars in your garage how
24:39do you get do they do your parents come
24:41close the door and come out and into the
24:43house or do they no if they park in the
24:45garage they come through there's an
24:47entrance from the garage to the house
24:49inside the garage how many ways are
24:51there to get into your house other than
24:53breaking a window like how many a
24:55doorway story
24:56so there's well there's the there's a
24:58door from the garage yes
25:01um the front doorway and the the
25:04backyard in the backyard okay
25:07so
25:08um
25:10it's now seven o'clock or beyond your
25:13mom's gone your dad's you believe
25:14upstairs in the computer room in the
25:16office and you're downstairs with Adrian
25:18watching either the How I Met Your
25:20Mother or gossip Gossip Girls a few
25:23episodes
25:24do you talk to anyone or text message
25:26anyone throughout the time that you're
25:27with Adrian no does Adrian talk or text
25:30message anyone through at the time his
25:31phone wasn't I believe his phone was
25:33decided okay
25:36um
25:37and then what happens uh nine o'clock
25:40comes and he says after that final after
25:42an episode we watch he's like it's time
25:43for to go home
25:45so I see him out and I went upstairs and
25:49got ready for bed okay
25:52and did you see your dad or hear your
25:54dad when you went upstairs when I went
25:55upstairs he was in his computer room
25:56like he normally is and on the computer
25:58at that point in time okay
26:01and your mom's not home no she her
26:03dancing doesn't finish till about nine
26:04so she doesn't get home till closer to 9
26:0630. okay so you're in your bedroom and
26:09what are you doing I'm at this point I
26:11was on the phone with my friend Andrew
26:13okay
26:14and
26:15just talking to him and then event after
26:17and watching TV and then that was I
26:21don't remember how long the conversation
26:22was but then I ended up calling my
26:24friend Edward
26:25so Andrew Andrew is a old high school
26:29friend okay and is he the one that was
26:32uh you would talk to this is the person
26:34you said you were talking to you're
26:36trying who was asking about meeting up
26:38with you yes
26:40so you were actually talking on the
26:41phone with him now yes did you you were
26:44talking on Facebook with him earlier no
26:46I was uh text messaging him text
26:48messaging him were you talking to anyone
26:50on Facebook at the same time because I
26:51know I know you guys can multitask no I
26:54believe my Facebook I keep my there's a
26:57chat window and I keep that as offline
26:59unless I intend to speak to one of my
27:02friends regarding one of the games I
27:04play so when you're talking to Andrew
27:06you're not talking to anyone else no
27:09when you're talking to Edward you're not
27:11talking to anyone else I don't have a
27:13computer in my room okay so that's that
27:15answers the question is that there's no
27:17computer in there how many computers are
27:18in the house uh there's
27:20a computer I'm not sure about Towers
27:22because my brother recently took one to
27:24school with him but I know there's one
27:27fully working computer and my mother has
27:29a laptop do you use either
27:33um like I said I was on the main
27:34computer earlier yes and the laptop I
27:37use occasionally but not too often did
27:40you use it that day
27:48I don't
27:49I don't remember to be honest but I
27:52don't believe I did and what services do
27:54you use when you're using the the laptop
27:57or or the other what do you say you're
27:59on Facebook is there any other chat
28:00lines or any other sometimes I have an
28:03MSN open but rarely I
28:06don't like to be on MSN too much okay
28:09um
28:10so uh now we're at nine o'clock and
28:14you're into the conversation you've had
28:16finish your conversation with Andrew and
28:18now you're speaking to Edward what time
28:19is it do you think
28:239 15 9 30. when you're talking to Edward
28:26is your mom have you heard your mom come
28:28in yet I heard
28:31[Music]
28:33I heard about so when I went down I was
28:35like hi Mom and then I saw her she had
28:37changed into her pajamas and she was
28:39downstairs watching TV again so let's
28:42stop it right there just hold it in
28:44check is that
28:47when she came in did you see her I
28:50didn't see her come in okay no when you
28:52heard her come in and you say she
28:54changed into your position she went up
28:55the stairs you heard her come upstairs I
28:57heard my mom come up the stairs and go
28:58into her bedroom okay and then when I
29:00went downstairs like she went back down
29:02the stairs and that's when I went out
29:03and I went down the stairs and that's
29:05when I noticed she was in her pajamas
29:07and just watching TV okay
29:10did you see your dad he had gone back to
29:13his bedroom to call it a night you his
29:16door was closed but he wasn't on the
29:18computer you could see in the computer
29:19room that he was not there so this is
29:22after your mom after your mom arrives
29:24home you've heard her come up the stairs
29:28going to the girl in the room you're
29:29suspecting she's changed because by the
29:31time you follow her down the stairs
29:33didn't follow her she went down and then
29:35I went after sure he went down to talk
29:38to your mom just to make sure she was
29:40okay
29:42what kind of pajamas is she wearing at
29:44this time green
29:46the Poo she went change back into our
29:47green one of the poop pajamas okay
29:51when you come downstairs
29:53are you noticing is there any problems
29:55any issues anything out of the norm when
29:57you go down because you said you went
29:58down to check on her and see how she was
29:59is there anything that's strange is
30:02there anything different not that I know
30:03she was just on the couch like she
30:05normally is watching television winding
30:07down okay
30:10and that's now
30:12you're saying 9 15 to 9 30 she gets home
30:15that's after that obviously just a
30:17little bit after that yeah okay and then
30:18what happens I go back up my stairs and
30:21I call Ed again okay and uh
30:24I had to use the washroom so I did put
30:25him on mute for a quick second and then
30:28I came back and I was just watching TV
30:30and talking with Ed okay how long are
30:34you now upstairs on the phone with it
30:36with Edward
30:45um your cell phone records are going to
30:47give us the exact times okay okay so are
30:50you have you talked to anyone else
30:52is is that you hang up with that word go
30:55down and see your mom come back upstairs
30:58call Edward yes use the washroom on the
31:02phone with Edward still yes have you
31:03talked to anyone else no
31:05okay
31:07have you text message anyone else
31:12how many I don't believe I had it do you
31:14have more than one phone I had had what
31:17I keep that I just keep the SIM card yes
31:21um
31:22again we will go into the history sure
31:24but uh my cell phone gets taken away
31:26from me sometimes okay and so I had
31:29um a friend of mine Daniel he bought he
31:33got a SIM card for me to use sometimes
31:34but I take the SIM card out when I
31:37finish it and I normally keep it in my
31:39pocket so my parents wouldn't find it
31:40yes but I don't remember the last time I
31:44I used it okay but you didn't use that
31:47SIM card that day no I did not know you
31:51did not I don't remember the last time
31:53maybe it was a few days before that it
31:55was the last time I remember using it
31:57was when my grandfather was in the
32:00hospital and I had messaged him and he
32:03asked me how my grandfather was and how
32:04long when is that time frame that your
32:06grandfather went into the hospital he
32:07was in the hospital for about 10 days
32:10okay
32:11so that's the last time you remember
32:12using that SIM card Associated to from
32:15what your friend had given you was about
32:1810 days earlier or even 12 days earlier
32:20because I believe you said your
32:22grandfather had come out of the hospital
32:23or was he still in the hospital no he
32:26was in the hospital for 10 days yes on
32:28Saturday he had gone back to his nursing
32:31home and this is Monday we're talking so
32:34it's about
32:3612 to 14 days earlier that this happened
32:38that you you use the Sim Card you're
32:40guessing with you probably within a week
32:45within a week yeah because I remember it
32:47takes seven days is that we were saying
32:49yeah because uh
32:50uh message him when my grandfather was
32:52in the hospital okay yeah and where's
32:54that SIM card now
32:56I'm not sure I I don't remember
33:03okay
33:04so
33:06we're now back to you're on the phone
33:08with Edward and again the history stuff
33:10you're right I don't want it to get
33:11convoluted in here but we need to you
33:13know we'll talk about that stuff after
33:15so we're back on track here it's now
33:19you're back on the phone you've come
33:20from the washroom taking the unit button
33:22off and you're now on the phone with
33:23Edward
33:26where's your mom have you heard your mom
33:28come up the stairs is she still down
33:29she's still downstairs she's still
33:31downstairs okay
33:33continue on
33:35um just I had my TV on because I was
33:37watching TV yes uh
33:42I don't remember what show I was
33:44watching I believe it was amazing
33:46Amazing Race I'm I'm not 100 sure at
33:50this moment uh if I was watching TV and
33:52on the phone with Ed as well okay
33:54and then
33:58I the next thing I remember is my mother
34:01calling down from my father
34:04what is she saying
34:06she's calling him by his name and to
34:08come down
34:09okay so give us Verbatim what do you
34:11hear her saying is it in
34:14these Chinese or is it in English in
34:16Vietnamese okay what do you hear her say
34:19in Vietnamese she's like Hanoi someday
34:23and what does that Translate to
34:25uh that's my father's name Han uh come
34:28down here
34:29does she say anything else associated
34:31with that with that
34:33I can't hear clearly because like I was
34:36on the phone the TV was on but that's
34:39what I heard is she yelling
34:41or is it um it's allowed it's a she's
34:44not yelling but it's a loud tone okay
34:47and normally that tone means that I need
34:50to go down and see what's happening
34:52usually so that's when I told him I told
34:55Edward I was like okay I gotta go I'll
34:57call you later and I hang up the phone
34:59with him have you heard anything else at
35:01this point in time as I'm hanging up the
35:03phone with him I hear footsteps going up
35:05the stairs okay but they're not
35:09they're heavier footsteps than what is
35:12to be expected from my parents okay
35:15and then I hear mumbling and someone's
35:18in the master bedroom and I hear the bed
35:22being tossed and I just froze where I
35:24was
35:27I have to say
35:28I don't know how long they were in there
35:31but
35:32I heard
35:34somebody going down the stairs
35:36so at this point I open my door
35:40I peered out and there was
35:43a person
35:45in the like what would have been my
35:47brother's room and where's your
35:49brother's room located uh just a little
35:51bit down like I could see my from my
35:53doorway to his doorway just a little bit
35:54down the hall
35:56okay
35:59and he looks at me and he pulls out his
36:01gun
36:03and he walks towards me and like sits me
36:06down on my bed
36:07because my bed is
36:09within a step from my door
36:12and he's like where's the money
36:14do you have any money give me your money
36:23so I had some money that I had saved up
36:25from serving and I was also planning on
36:28buying a new cell phone because my
36:30contract was finishing with Rogers
36:33and the phone I'm currently using has
36:37not good reception so I had about two
36:41thousand dollars
36:42saved up
36:46and so I opened my drawer and I pointed
36:49at it
36:50and he picked it up
36:52and took the cash
36:54and put it in his pocket
37:00at this point he ties my hands behind my
37:02back
37:05and he walks me out okay so stop right
37:07there for a second
37:09okay I want you now that you've got him
37:12right there I want you to describe him
37:13to me
37:14what you can remember
37:16every little detail
37:24he's black a dreadlocks
37:29how long are the drugs
37:31a boat show me on your on your on your
37:34own body where they where you would see
37:35about shoulder length Okay but they were
37:38long enough that they
37:40were able to move
37:45uh he was
37:47I would eat medium build and he is
37:51slight
37:53when I was standing I was
37:56almost eye level with him
38:00when he came up to me I'm about five
38:02seven okay
38:09clothing all I could remember is
38:12dark clothing
38:17now you got to you've got a gun pointed
38:20at you yes and then he told
38:23okay uh the gun
38:25was black
38:28with
38:29um almost
38:32not a triangle but it
38:35kind of tapered a little on the handle
38:40and I would describe it as like
38:43um what I see on TV for like police
38:46officers kind of like
38:48I guess like a handgun sort of thing
38:53and the whole time he kept telling me to
38:56look down
39:01because my bedroom was dark but the
39:03hallway was lit so we kept telling me to
39:05look down look down
39:10at this point any accent
39:14not from this particular person does he
39:18sound like he was born and raised in
39:19Canada
39:22I'd say
39:24I would say that he was born in Canada
39:25but
39:27it's like there was no sign of an accent
39:30in his and that's what I mean culturally
39:32I'm talking about the language you know
39:34like you can tell someone who's spent a
39:36long time as a young age from starting
39:38because there is no it's it's normal
39:40normal speech is that what you're saying
39:43yes okay
39:46can you see anything on his hands
39:48he's wearing gloves
39:50what type of gloves uh
39:52black leather gloves
39:55now
39:56facial experience before UT tells you to
39:59look down do you see anything because
40:00you got a wide nose is he got is his uh
40:03any pock marks any acne any facial hair
40:17the only thing I could really make out
40:19is just the general shape of his face
40:21which is because the only thing I could
40:26I think it caught my attention was
40:29I think okay
40:32what about his facial what about what he
40:34looks like tell me about that you said
40:36about the site or the shape of his face
40:42it's not round but it's
40:46it's not a narrow face
40:48I
40:51um
40:54is
40:56he didn't have like his cheeks weren't
41:00protruding but they were they're not
41:02like the normal people
41:04uh
41:14like it's almost like a roundish
41:17squarish face
41:19uh is
41:22cheeks he had cheeks it wasn't like like
41:26um what they call um
41:28the defined um the the cheekbones yes
41:31like it was it was almost like round
41:34a full full like there was some meat
41:36there right like I wouldn't I wouldn't
41:38say fat like it wasn't like a protruding
41:40but it was there was no like definition
41:43okay
41:46and now this guy's age and I know it's
41:48very difficult to Define but um you know
41:51people age differently and they have
41:53different appearances where would you
41:54put this this guy
41:57very late 20s to early 30s so but I
42:02would if I had to put numbers I'd say
42:04somewhere between 28 to about 33. if you
42:09saw a picture of this guy in a composite
42:11like on a profile do you think you could
42:13identify
42:16I
42:18wouldn't be 100 certain
42:20okay so everyone looked
42:23like if everyone had dreadlocks and the
42:25face was very familiar I didn't get a
42:28very very clear
42:30look at his face because
42:32I'm sorry but the the only thing I could
42:35really see was that he had pointed that
42:38at me and
42:39now I think another possibility is just
42:43based on you if we sat you in front of a
42:45composite drawer it sounds like you
42:47could give them some some raw
42:49information that might be able to help
42:51in that area Okay so if you can't do
42:53that idea that that one's still
42:54available okay
42:56so now
42:58he's uh you've given he's taken your
42:59money where and where exactly where's
43:01your money located uh
43:03uh I my TV's on
43:06side table
43:10almost a day planner but I don't use it
43:13for day planning
43:15um it was like from friends what are you
43:17wearing right now
43:19um I'm wearing what I was prepared to go
43:22to bed I'm wearing my black pants and
43:26an old figure skating sweater that I had
43:30gotten describe the sweater to me like
43:32what is it does it have pockets does it
43:34have a hood does it is it just a sweater
43:36it's just a like a slip-on sweater no
43:38hood no
43:40okay so when you get off the phone with
43:42Edward and you're saying where does this
43:44phone go I stick it uh right here on the
43:48back side of my pants
43:50back side of your pants yes so in the
43:52waistband yes okay
43:56you open the door you see this figure
43:58he's coming he's taking the money and
44:00the bed the nightstand is on what side
44:01of your bed
44:02if you're looking at if you're looking
44:04at the front of your bed this way where
44:05is the nightstand
44:07it's in front of my bed okay so it's
44:11right beside the door yes
44:15the
44:16nightstand the TV and my bed is
44:20long towards the TV to watch did you
44:23take anything else from your room
44:26not when I was there no
44:28not when you were there no okay did he
44:31toss your room
44:35I don't while you were there no
44:38okay
44:39so he takes you you're you're let
44:41outside out of the hallway now and what
44:43happens
44:44and are the lights in the hallway still
44:46on
44:48yes but he's telling me to look down
44:50okay
44:51and at this point now he's behind me he
44:54had grabbed me at the shirt and he had
44:57pulled me in front of him and
45:00uh was
45:02pushing me towards the stairs okay
45:07what does he say
45:09he keeps yelling
45:12hurry up hurry up
45:15do what we're saying
45:17and no one will get hurt
45:20okay
45:28and then he takes me down the stairs
45:32and the lights on the main floor are all
45:35turned off
45:38we take
45:43my stairs are a little curved and we
45:46just went he sat he made me push me down
45:50but my shoulders and told me to sit on
45:53the floor do you feel the gun
45:55is he using his hand he's using his hand
45:58to lead me down the stairs and force me
46:01to sit down I'll only one hand okay you
46:04see the gun again
46:06at this point I'm looking down and he's
46:08behind me so okay I don't see his gun
46:12um
46:12but I can see there's two other shadows
46:16and I can see him
46:20from where I was standing my father was
46:22sitting on the right and my mother was
46:24saying on the left sitting where on a
46:27couch on our couch
46:29sitting on the couch are they looking
46:31out towards you no their backs are
46:33towards me okay and you're now on the
46:36ground level are you on the floor or on
46:39the sitting on the floor I'm sitting on
46:40the floor all right where are your hands
46:42they had tied my hands so let's go I
46:45said let's go back up to the stairs
46:46remember we said
46:48take the other statement and whatever
46:49we've said before I I said it earlier
46:52okay then we must let's let's get back
46:54to that area I think you might have
46:55touched on and we went back into the
46:56description so where does he where do
46:58you get your hands tied and where does
46:59the string come from
47:01I'm not sure where the string comes from
47:03but he had the string okay
47:06and he after I gave him my money that's
47:09when he tied my hands
47:11and how did that happen
47:13where were you in the room in the
47:15hallway where he told me to sit down on
47:17the edge of my bed yes and that's when I
47:21opened he told me showed show me and I
47:26pulled open
47:27my my drawer my dresser and he saw the
47:31money and he picked it up my book and
47:34then he opened up the book and grabbed
47:36the cash put in his pocket okay
47:40at this point he still has a gun
47:42pointing towards me
47:45and he
47:51you're doing great you're doing fabulous
47:54okay
47:55so he's got the gun pointed at you
48:00and how do the hands get behind your
48:02back he told me to put my hands behind
48:04my book okay
48:09continue
48:20I believe he had
48:27I'm sorry I'm just trying to be 100
48:29certain and it's just it's pieces that
48:32I'm Gonna Roll through them we'll put
48:34the pieces together
48:37I
48:40you've got the money out of the drawer
48:41open the drawer you put it in his pocket
48:43I'm sitting on my bed yes
48:46and he had told me to put my hands
48:48behind my back
48:52but it was dark
48:55so I believe he told me to
48:57stand up so he could tie my hands
48:59together
49:01and I was trying to
49:04make it loose so I could
49:07I could do something but he had pulled
49:09him so tight
49:12and he made sure I squealed before he
49:17before he let go
49:19is your TV on
49:21okay my TV's on the whole time okay
49:28so you've squealed they're tight and
49:29they're behind your back
49:31and that's when he grabs me and starts
49:33leading me down the stairs okay does he
49:35pat you down or search you or do
49:36anything I think goodness no because if
49:39he had Pat me down he would have found
49:40my phone okay
49:42so you
49:43you're now down at the bottom of the
49:45stairs
49:46you've at this point in time you've only
49:47seen one person or have you seen the
49:49others before you get to the bottom of
49:50this before I get to the bottom of the
49:52stairs I had
49:53seen
49:54one person okay
49:57so now you're at the bottom of the
49:58stairs and he keeps telling these guys
50:00to hurry up hurry up it's taking too
50:02long
50:04and
50:05he he told me I looked down but I was
50:09able to
50:11see out of my peripheral
50:19a man that I will call number three
50:22because I associated with him the least
50:27he had
50:28a gun
50:32pointed at my father
50:35asking him if he had
50:38money in his wallet
50:40and where the money was in the house
50:44and he asked my father how much he had
50:46in his wallet
50:47and my father answered him sixty dollars
50:49and he kept yelling you better not be
50:51lying to me is there more where is the
50:54rest
50:58and
51:02another person who was hiding behind
51:05the wall in the kitchen from where I sit
51:08I couldn't see him at first
51:11he had was asking my mother where her
51:13purse was
51:15so hang on a second who is this is this
51:17another another guy is this number a
51:19number you've gone from a number one to
51:21a number three yes I I call this guy
51:23number two okay so number three let's
51:25stick with number three what what can
51:27you describe of him if anything
51:30including the gun
51:33I can only see that there was a round
51:37uh kind of like a revolver
51:40that's okay
51:42remember if you have to stop and take
51:44some deep breaths that really does help
51:46the process
51:49his gun had
51:52what you call over I believe a revolver
51:55in like one of those things you see in
51:57old old western movies
52:02and he had I could just see uh
52:05almost like a silhouette of it from the
52:08light
52:09uh coming through the the curtains
52:13so in proximity now you're looking
52:15through the peripheral okay uh is it
52:18you're looking right or left from where
52:19you are
52:20right you're looking right so you're
52:22looking over here to the right
52:24okay and you can see your back so your
52:27mom and dad who are sitting on the couch
52:28yes
52:29can you see what they're wearing
52:32I can't see what my father's wearing can
52:34you see what your mom's wearing
52:36at that point in time I couldn't see
52:39what my mother's wearing it was later on
52:41that I saw what she was wearing okay so
52:43we'll go on to later on then
52:45so there you can see them in the back
52:47and where is the silhouette in relation
52:48to your mom and dad
52:51standing in front of my father
52:53okay
52:54so is is is a house this the what what
52:58lights are on on the ground level
53:01he they cracked open the fridge a few
53:04times for light but
53:06the only light on the main floor was the
53:09one shining through the windows and
53:12doors
53:14the this number three guy you hear him
53:17speak what is what do you what do you
53:19notice about or know about his his
53:21um
53:22that the words he's speaking accent if
53:25any
53:26it's um
53:30it's uh
53:32he's not from
53:33wasn't the accent's not what I normally
53:36hear
53:37it was
53:39almost Caribbean like Jamaican or
53:43Guyanese and
53:45like that kind of accent yep
53:48um
53:49have you got friends who like reason to
53:51ask you is is the Jamaican accent or the
53:53Guyanese accent have you got friends who
53:55have that accent that you recognize it
53:57growing up there was uh
54:00growing up one of my friends was from
54:03guy Guyana and uh
54:06I remember vaguely he like when his
54:09parents came for her school functions
54:12it was sort of something like that so
54:15it's tweaking you to some a care like a
54:17Western Caribbean Island area like
54:20Jamaica or
54:21or
54:23um Guyana something something like that
54:25okay
54:26so you hear him talk and describe his
54:29silhouette to me what you see of it all
54:31I could see is that he's slim and tall
54:36um
54:37again I was sitting on the floor but no
54:40race
54:40he
54:42it was dark but I
54:47you can't put a race to him not with I
54:50don't want to put a race with voice I
54:52want a race by color
54:53I could not see it was dark I could not
54:57see his face okay
55:00and now number two
55:03okay you say that doors fridge doors
55:05where does he come into play where do
55:07you first see him I first see him when
55:09he's asking my mother where her purse is
55:12and um
55:14they kept telling us that if we just
55:16cooperated everything would be okay
55:19so she just just interrupt you because
55:22we I want to stay on get back to three
55:24before we move on to two is is three
55:26when is it is number three how is his
55:28interaction with their father when he's
55:29telling him about demanding the money
55:31and the only money and not lying to him
55:34is this like is he talking in a low
55:37monotone voice or is he yelling at him
55:39how is the how's the interaction going
55:45a Stern voice Stern but not screaming
55:49not angry
55:52okay so I interrupted you now back to
55:55number two where he's asking your mum
55:57for
55:58her wallet her purse her purse at first
56:02and this is at the point where my mother
56:04stands up and that's when I saw
56:07that's when I saw her close again okay
56:10at this point in the night obviously and
56:14what is she wearing uh she's still
56:15wearing her Winnie the Pooh pajamas as
56:17she was when I had come down earlier
56:19okay
56:23day
56:25all I could see was
56:27that
56:30he had pushed her back onto the couch
56:31and she pushed her and number two okay
56:34he was pushing her back onto the couch
56:37and she she kept saying where's my purse
56:39where's my purse
56:42I think I kept telling her and sit down
56:44and I didn't want my mom to get hurt
56:51how many times does she get up and get
56:53pushed back down
57:01I'd say she got up
57:05and she and then they told the first
57:09time she stepped back and sat down but
57:11the second time she was pushed back onto
57:13the couch
57:14this is only by number two yes because
57:17number one was standing behind me
57:19he's saying anything during this process
57:22he keeps uttering that we have to hurry
57:25up
57:26it's taking too long
57:29that's at that point that's he kept
57:33saying hurry up
57:34is taking too long
57:36is there any other demands from either
57:38two or three or one about about
57:41wallet or purse is there any other two
57:44was the one talking to my father asking
57:47about his wallet
57:48and number one and he kept saying
57:51where's the rest of the money and
57:53where's the purse was coming from number
57:55one
57:56number one behind you yes I thought
58:00number number two didn't speak
58:03okay well you just said number two is
58:04the one who's making demands no he's the
58:06one looking
58:08he's the one looking so number two as we
58:11we're stepping back to because I don't
58:13want to confuse this thing I want to
58:14slow it down no no no don't be sorry
58:17we're just gonna slow it down okay
58:18you're you're getting agitated and and
58:21and
58:22you're anxious so we're gonna slow
58:25things down again because it's very
58:26important in this area right
58:28as you had said that number two
58:31talks to your mom
58:33and says where's your purse and pushes
58:37her down so now you said that number two
58:40didn't speak so let's clarify that what
58:42I meant was number one had asked her
58:44where her purse was and she was mumbling
58:46where's my purse and number two was the
58:48one that pushed her
58:50so your number number one is talking to
58:52your mom from behind you yes
58:54okay where's your purse where's your
58:56purse yes
58:58she gets up
58:59and number two number two steps forward
59:02and
59:04that's when my mom steps back and sits
59:06down
59:08as number two uttered her word at this
59:10point in time
59:15so we're just correcting what you said
59:17earlier because you said earlier that it
59:18was number two who is asking where the
59:20purses what are the purses and now
59:22you've said now it's number one
59:24guy who would initially no no it's all a
59:28purpose but the purpose here is
59:30clarifying what you're saying so number
59:32one number one is the one who's doing
59:35the talking about the purse number three
59:38is focused on your dad's wallet
59:41okay number two pushes your mum back
59:44into place into the scene now at this
59:46point in time can you see number two can
59:49you see his description at this point in
59:51time all I could see is a hoodie and
59:53slim build hoodie and slim build do you
59:56see a gun on him I'm on the floor I
59:59can't see what
1:00:00like what his hands were doing when you
1:00:03say you're on the floor how are you on
1:00:04the floor how are you what are you
1:00:06what's your position are you lying on
1:00:08the floor are you sitting on the floor
1:00:09I'm sitting on the floor
1:00:12cross-legged when
1:00:14with the number one behind me okay
1:00:19so
1:00:20you've now
1:00:22um
1:00:23you've now got
1:00:24your dad like who's told him about the
1:00:27wallet upstairs was sixty dollars you
1:00:29got your mom who's they're asking about
1:00:31a purse okay from number one let's go
1:00:33from there
1:00:38how is your mom dealing with this when
1:00:40she's getting up and getting pushed back
1:00:41down is she responding to them is she
1:00:43talking to them
1:00:45she keeps saying because they keep
1:00:47uttering if you cooperate
1:00:49no one will get hurt
1:00:51and
1:00:56she keeps asking herself where's my
1:00:59purse where's my purse
1:01:02in English
1:01:07and then I believe she remembers that
1:01:10she didn't take a purse out she only had
1:01:12a wallet that day
1:01:14after she came home
1:01:16she had a wallet
1:01:19she was trying to find it and number two
1:01:21is looking around for it
1:01:23was she up helping to look for it
1:01:26that the second time that's when she
1:01:28stood up to help and that's when she got
1:01:30pushed back down okay
1:01:35are they bound do you see their hands or
1:01:38my mother when she got up I she was not
1:01:40bound okay
1:01:43so do they direct number two to where
1:01:45this will per where the wallet is or
1:01:47does he find it that you know
1:01:51okay
1:01:52so then what happens
1:01:54and then
1:01:56number one tells me to stand up
1:01:59and because I'm crossing on the floor I
1:02:01with my hands behind my back I couldn't
1:02:03get up very well
1:02:05and so he kind of
1:02:07he was one hand he kind of
1:02:09pulled me up
1:02:13and
1:02:15he said come here
1:02:18he didn't say who or what he just said
1:02:21come here
1:02:23and he brought me upstairs he said
1:02:25you're gonna take me to the wallet show
1:02:28me where your father's wallet where does
1:02:30he keep his wallet
1:02:40and at this point number two had come
1:02:42upstairs
1:02:45and since he was upstairs
1:02:51sorry sir let's start let's start down a
1:02:53second again come with me come with me
1:02:55they take me to my parents room and I
1:02:59can see the bed is turned over and
1:03:01everything's awry and you're with
1:03:05um number one is still behind me yes and
1:03:07number two at the point is on his way up
1:03:10okay so he's not up there yet
1:03:13do you hear any interaction going on
1:03:15between your parents and number three
1:03:16can you hear anything
1:03:26I don't recall anything okay so you get
1:03:28to the top of the stairs
1:03:30he takes me to my parents room where are
1:03:32you standing at first I was standing at
1:03:34the doorway like in the middle of the
1:03:35doorway and then he pushed me aside to
1:03:38my left a little so that number two can
1:03:40come in okay you get a good look at
1:03:43number two now of what he's wearing
1:03:45all I could tell was he had a vest and
1:03:47his face was like a long oval face get a
1:03:50vest
1:03:51no hoodie okay
1:03:54uh dark hoodie okay was there anything
1:03:58on his face or was there could you see
1:03:59his face
1:04:01again he kept telling me to keep my head
1:04:02down
1:04:03and every time I tried to he used his
1:04:05hand and he
1:04:06because he had me by my shoulder he kind
1:04:09of just let go for a second push my head
1:04:11down to make sure I wouldn't look up
1:04:13okay is the where you know what the like
1:04:15what the lights you said are in the
1:04:17hallway upstairs were on are they on
1:04:18still yes
1:04:19okay when you're looking down can you
1:04:21see what number one is wearing on his
1:04:24pants or his shoes he was
1:04:27not directly behind me and I was
1:04:31there was just so much in front of me
1:04:33that had happened and
1:04:35I don't recall okay
1:04:37so where are you facing if you're at the
1:04:40doorway when you're looking in are the
1:04:43lights to your mom and dad's room on
1:04:45are you now facing into the room
1:04:48and what do you see you said you saw the
1:04:50bed turned up so it turned
1:04:52so the room has been rummaged through is
1:04:54is what you're is that the state of your
1:04:56parents room no okay it was it like they
1:05:00had flipped the bed okay
1:05:02and when you say you move to the left
1:05:04are you still able to look inside the
1:05:06bedroom
1:05:08where do they have you look where are
1:05:10you looking now almost like I'm right
1:05:11beside the wall and my parents have a my
1:05:14mother has a sewing table
1:05:17there okay so I'm just pretty much
1:05:19staring at I'm like looking down at the
1:05:21table
1:05:22in peripherals you can't see where where
1:05:26no and where is number one at this point
1:05:28he's still behind me okay
1:05:31so what's going on inside the room with
1:05:33number two now in there he's looking for
1:05:35my parents my father's jeans and he's
1:05:37asking me where is it but I don't know
1:05:40where it is because they had turned the
1:05:41room around
1:05:44and
1:05:46then number one pulled me backwards
1:05:49and told me to sit at the top of the
1:05:51banister
1:05:52and tied my hands back
1:05:54uh tied my arm to the banister
1:05:57okay now did did you see them recover
1:06:00anything inside your mom and dad's room
1:06:03I did not see anything no
1:06:07are you sure because uh we would when we
1:06:10spoke the last time there was some
1:06:12mention of some other money that went
1:06:13missing
1:06:23Vera
1:06:28yes the U.S currency so how did that get
1:06:31found
1:06:43I believe when they were looking for my
1:06:45father's wallet they had
1:06:47opened the drawer
1:06:50and there was a it was in an envelope
1:06:52what drawer would that have been in on
1:06:55my
1:06:56on the if you're in at the door we were
1:07:00all standing on the left side
1:07:01the bedside table
1:07:03whose side of the bed is it that's my
1:07:06mother's side of the bed okay and
1:07:08approximately how much money
1:07:12I'm not sure how much she took out for
1:07:14our
1:07:15our trip
1:07:17but I cannot I think
1:07:19estimate about a few hundred dollars a
1:07:22few hundred because at the time the last
1:07:24time you told me you were pretty adamant
1:07:25about eleven hundred dollars so I'm
1:07:27curious to know how you came up with
1:07:29that number
1:07:35I believe because when we were at the
1:07:37border
1:07:38we and we stopped at the duty-free my
1:07:41mother was deciding whether to use her
1:07:42U.S currency or her
1:07:45U.S currency or her Canadian currency
1:07:50so it was at that time you remember
1:07:51hearing eleven hundred dollars
1:07:53and that's what is that the inference
1:07:55you're saying is that because you're
1:07:57pretty solid saying that it was eleven
1:07:59hundred dollars it went missing because
1:08:01it was taken
1:08:03and that you saw it
1:08:05when we spoke
1:08:10and who took it
1:08:12Who took possession of the money
1:08:15I'm sorry it's all right
1:08:20were you ever inside the room did they
1:08:22ever take you inside the room did you
1:08:24ever make it past the threshold of that
1:08:26door
1:08:40okay
1:08:41so let's come back to now you're being
1:08:44pig into the banister in the upper don't
1:08:47apologize okay I'm gonna try and ask you
1:08:49questions to try and clarify points okay
1:08:52if you don't remember you don't remember
1:08:55okay so don't there's no apologizing the
1:08:58only reason you would apologize to me is
1:09:00you've lied to me no
1:09:02no okay so then in this case then don't
1:09:04apologize to me it's okay okay I'm gonna
1:09:07ask you questions to clarify points okay
1:09:10so you're at the bit you've been taken
1:09:11back to the banister who is there
1:09:14number one talking about
1:09:16okay where's number two
1:09:17fill in the bedroom
1:09:19okay
1:09:22how do you get tied to this banister
1:09:32hey number one
1:09:36number two had come out of
1:09:39the room
1:09:41and he had
1:09:43told number two
1:09:46go get kuzzy for this drink uh no it was
1:09:50go get cuz
1:09:58he has said that
1:10:00I need a string go get cuz
1:10:03and number two ran down the stairs and
1:10:05he came back up shortly after
1:10:08and then
1:10:24and I believe number two was the one
1:10:25that tied me up
1:10:28because number one was still holding the
1:10:29gun in front of me so number one is now
1:10:32in front of you he has been in front of
1:10:33me since he pulled me out of the bedroom
1:10:35okay and he sat me down and he was in
1:10:37front of me making sure I was down
1:10:40so on this gun that you're looking at
1:10:42that's in front of you is there can you
1:10:44see what type of gun is it does it have
1:10:45a cylinder or a round thing like an old
1:10:47gun or does it look like more like a
1:10:51this reminded me of the like television
1:10:53police like the handguns yeah
1:10:57yeah
1:10:58oh and it's black
1:11:01he from there now you're in front of him
1:11:02and you're looking down can you see his
1:11:04shoes can you see anything else about
1:11:05them I want you to think right now just
1:11:07sort of it's tough to put yourself back
1:11:09in that spot but you've never been tied
1:11:12up I suspect or bound like that and now
1:11:14you're sitting there staring down can
1:11:15you is there anything that you remember
1:11:17about his shoes
1:11:19or his pants
1:11:28any idea where this string came from
1:11:30does it does it what you're you're
1:11:32seeing it come around because it's now
1:11:34lit does it look like it's come from
1:11:37some from clothing or from shoes that
1:11:39you might have in your house
1:11:42or you don't know it just
1:11:46it just looked like a black shoelace I
1:11:51okay
1:11:53any any interaction any communication
1:11:56going on between you and number one and
1:11:57number two while this is being while
1:12:00you're being bound
1:12:01my mother's calling for me
1:12:03okay and
1:12:06fed
1:12:07just shut up
1:12:11who's saying that to who
1:12:13number three is downstairs and she's
1:12:15telling her to shut up just tell him to
1:12:17shut up what's your dad doing
1:12:19okay
1:12:25you're now bound to this to the to the
1:12:27railing
1:12:28can you show me can you stand up and
1:12:30turn around and tell me just show on the
1:12:32camera how your hands are bound
1:12:35and how you are against the railing you
1:12:37don't have to sit down I just need to
1:12:38see how you work
1:12:46just tell you
1:12:48the only reason that I'm trying to I
1:12:50need to do this is that I'm also going
1:12:52to ask you is that it so take this back
1:12:54to from take it out of a traumatizing
1:12:56event which it is and put yourself into
1:12:58a more clinical position because I want
1:13:00to see how you could physically get your
1:13:03phone out of your waistband we're
1:13:04obviously going to need to know that
1:13:06it's very important so
1:13:07traumatize away now put yourself into a
1:13:11just a state of I need to mechanically
1:13:13show how I can get access to my phone
1:13:16okay because that's obviously very
1:13:18relevant we know you made the phone call
1:13:20but questions are going to obviously
1:13:22raise is that if my hands are bound and
1:13:24I'm against derailing how do I talk to a
1:13:279-1-1 operator
1:13:28okay so clinically this is now a
1:13:31clinical demonstration
1:13:33just stand up
1:13:35focus in on how you did it
1:13:42I want you to stick that in your
1:13:43waistband as an example okay so take
1:13:46your just take your sweat off because
1:13:47this will be a very smooth very quick
1:13:48thing it's a one-time demonstration I'm
1:13:50not going to ask you to repeat it
1:13:52but I need to go through it okay so just
1:13:54take your sweater off
1:14:04stand up and turn around
1:14:08put this in the side that you believe it
1:14:09was in
1:14:12great turn around so that only you're
1:14:15looking away from me you're looking
1:14:16exactly like now here is where the
1:14:18banister is put your hands back behind
1:14:20your back basically exactly how you
1:14:22remember they were
1:14:24okay
1:14:25now and are you restrained from movement
1:14:28how far can you move your hands from the
1:14:29banister
1:14:34yes around the banister yes but my hands
1:14:38are bound together so your hands bound
1:14:40together and this is the arm that's the
1:14:41the strings wrapped around against the
1:14:42banister
1:14:44okay so now how can you get to the phone
1:14:49and how do you make the phone call
1:14:55911
1:14:57and do you talk down like that yes I'm
1:15:00yelling at the phone with this and how
1:15:02can you hear
1:15:04I turned the volume on Max yes
1:15:07so that's exactly the way that you're
1:15:09talking to her against the railing
1:15:12okay that's good enough sit down put
1:15:14your sweater back on
1:15:19put yourself
1:15:24you want it you want some more water
1:15:29I really appreciate that obviously it's
1:15:31very important to see it because we
1:15:33can't put you either it would be
1:15:34absolutely physically
1:15:37impossible to put you back in the same
1:15:39position but we just needed to see how
1:15:42you get the phone out and and make the
1:15:45call
1:15:53okay so sit back take a couple of deep
1:15:56breaths again
1:16:04when you're when you're up against the
1:16:06railing and now you've been bound
1:16:09and
1:16:11is number two and number one still there
1:16:13or are they gone
1:16:14number one was there for a little bit
1:16:16number two ran down the stairs what is
1:16:18number one is he saying anything to you
1:16:22he's saying you obeyed
1:16:27and just shut up
1:16:29and don't move
1:16:33and he continues yelling downstairs
1:16:35hurry up
1:16:37hurry up it's taking too long hurry up
1:16:46now tell me something
1:16:48okay which is kind of important
1:16:52there's a safe in the house is there
1:16:53none
1:16:58safe is in a fairly visible place within
1:17:02within your parents bedroom is it not
1:17:06[Music]
1:17:07fairly visible Accord at least from the
1:17:10pitchers
1:17:13was there ever mention of wanting the
1:17:16combination to that safe
1:17:21through any of the interaction of one
1:17:23two and three did they know that there
1:17:25was a safe in place
1:17:29I don't I I'm not aware if they knew
1:17:34I didn't
1:17:36so you never heard any of them demanding
1:17:37the safe the the
1:17:39um the combination to the safe
1:17:45was there anything else they were
1:17:47demanding in their yelling it was was it
1:17:49was it what was the focus of what they
1:17:51were looking for cash cash
1:17:58okay
1:18:00so number one's talking to you you
1:18:01obeyed
1:18:03and we need to go we need to go
1:18:09and where does he go from that point in
1:18:10time
1:18:11he's yelling down the stairs
1:18:14is there more
1:18:17and number two I can just hear him
1:18:19muffling something I I don't hear him
1:18:22clearly number two or number three no
1:18:25sorry number three number three
1:18:29number three okay
1:18:32it's just
1:18:33a mirror but I can't I can't hear what
1:18:36he's saying okay
1:18:39laughs
1:18:43at this point I started hearing my
1:18:45parents get up
1:18:47and they're moving and my mom's yelling
1:18:49where's my daughter I want my daughter
1:18:51where's my daughter
1:18:54I'm yelling Mom I'm here
1:18:58are they saying anything to your parents
1:19:03I know she's yelling to you
1:19:06okay she's she's yelling to you
1:19:09are they saying anything
1:19:16like are they giving them directions as
1:19:18to where they're going
1:19:39or can you remember
1:19:42okay
1:19:46so you hear them get up and you're
1:19:48moving and they're moving to in what
1:19:49direction
1:19:53towards the basement okay
1:19:57are you still hearing one and two or one
1:19:59and three are you hearing all three of
1:20:00them
1:20:02number one
1:20:03and what's he saying hurry up
1:20:06is there more
1:20:16okay
1:20:18at this point he throws my glasses
1:20:25then he walks down the stairs
1:20:27so he's still up there with you
1:20:30Wendy and and at this so you've had your
1:20:32glasses on the whole time when does he
1:20:34take them off right before he leaves
1:20:36right after so you're you're tied to the
1:20:38banister you're just before he leaves to
1:20:41go down the stairs your glasses are off
1:20:42you have had your glasses on the whole
1:20:45time prior to that
1:20:46okay
1:20:51so now you hear your parents up and
1:20:53they're moving towards the basement do
1:20:55you what do you hear
1:20:58where's the rest of the money
1:21:05whose voice
1:21:08the one with the Caribbean accent number
1:21:10three
1:21:12who we've called number three
1:21:14where's the rest of the money
1:21:16is that as your as you hear your parents
1:21:18moving I can hear them stepping down the
1:21:20stairs okay
1:21:23and then
1:21:25after number one joins them after he
1:21:28took my glasses
1:21:30you heard him go down the stairs as well
1:21:33number one then left me yes and he went
1:21:36down the stairs and I asked my mom was
1:21:39still calling for me and I wanted to go
1:21:41and he says no
1:21:48me okay hang on a second
1:21:50hang on
1:21:54so number you here number one say no to
1:21:57your response to your demand of wanting
1:21:59to go do you hear the questions coming
1:22:01or your mom saying where is she where is
1:22:03she are she starting to make her are
1:22:05they starting to go down to the basement
1:22:06are they on the stairs leading to the
1:22:08basement
1:22:10can you hear I'm going to ask you to
1:22:13focus in because it's very difficult I'm
1:22:14going to ask you to focus in are you
1:22:16hearing all of them going downstairs
1:22:20can you hear that many footsteps that's
1:22:22five sets of steps
1:22:31because if your mom is moving down to
1:22:32the basement with these guys and number
1:22:34one is walking down to join them he
1:22:36would be but he would be later he'd be
1:22:38walking down does he go down to the
1:22:39basement
1:22:40or do you know
1:22:45can't tell
1:22:50here Jennifer take it Kleenex
1:22:54and just
1:22:56take a minute
1:23:11okay
1:23:13so we're now down in the basement
1:23:14they're down in the you know your
1:23:16parents are down in the basement you
1:23:17don't know who's down there with them
1:23:19you can't tell how many people went down
1:23:22you know that number one left and was
1:23:24heading in down in that direction but
1:23:26you don't know by footsteps
1:23:28Who's down there that's all right
1:23:31whose voices can you hear now down in
1:23:33the basement
1:23:41number three
1:23:43say you lied
1:23:45there's more where is it you lied
1:23:49you're lying
1:23:56okay and then what do you hear
1:24:00foreign
1:24:20[Music]
1:24:25I heard pop
1:24:27and then my mom
1:24:29I heard her squeal
1:24:31so do you hear one pop or do you hear
1:24:33two
1:24:34that's what I can't remember then don't
1:24:36it's it's one or two
1:24:39okay and then you hear your mom squeal
1:24:44and then what do you hear
1:24:50another one or two pops do you hear any
1:24:53voices in between other than your mom's
1:24:55squealing do you hear number three say
1:24:56anything
1:24:58calling for her okay
1:25:03don't apologize okay this is nothing to
1:25:07feel to apologize to me for this isn't
1:25:09something that you're trying to remember
1:25:11so you heard a pop
1:25:13you heard your mum squeal
1:25:15and then you heard another
1:25:18any idea how many more Pops you heard
1:25:23I just remember that I heard one or two
1:25:25and then there was
1:25:27a slight break
1:25:30and there was one more
1:25:33I don't remember if it was two and then
1:25:35break and then one or if it was one in
1:25:37the break and then one
1:25:39okay so you're saying that you heard a
1:25:41total of how many pops
1:25:43guessing
1:25:50four or five four five okay so you hear
1:25:54after those pops
1:25:56popping noises
1:25:58what do you hear after the last popping
1:26:00noise you've heard what do you hear
1:26:02that's it
1:26:06too long let's go
1:26:08number one
1:26:09that's it
1:26:11it's too long let's go
1:26:13okay
1:26:16a bunch of foots going
1:26:23does it sound like they're obviously
1:26:24coming does it sound coming up the
1:26:26stairs
1:26:27do you know where they leave
1:26:40I believe they went out the front door
1:26:42okay but I couldn't see anything I just
1:26:45it's what I heard it's what you're
1:26:47hearing
1:26:49what else do you hear next
1:26:51that I heard
1:26:52was the door closed I heard my father
1:26:56he ran up the stairs and all I could
1:26:58hear was moaning
1:27:01yeah
1:27:02once I heard him starting to move I
1:27:05that's when I pulled up the phone and I
1:27:07was trying to call 9-1-1
1:27:09okay
1:27:15did you hear after you hear that's it
1:27:17let's go do you hear any more
1:27:19communication between the three guys
1:27:30okay
1:27:38okay so you're dialing 9-1-1 you've
1:27:41called the police you know you're on the
1:27:42phone with the dispatcher you're
1:27:44updating him as to what goes on
1:27:49am I
1:27:51I heard my dad call me out the door and
1:27:53he's like yelling on this street
1:27:57okay end up calling for him but the
1:27:59dispatch lady I'm trying to
1:28:08so when the officers arrive
1:28:13how do you get untied
1:28:30do you remember at first they were all
1:28:32outside and I I was screaming for them
1:28:34yeah
1:28:36yeah and
1:28:38finally someone heard me they came up
1:28:41the stairs
1:28:47first they had to check all the rooms
1:28:49first but I just wanted them to get me
1:28:51out yeah
1:28:52City there it is
1:29:02so they how did they get you free
1:29:08you grabbed a pair of scissors from my
1:29:10room
1:29:13but the officer said to wait a few
1:29:15minutes because he didn't know how to
1:29:17how to do it procedure
1:29:20you know
1:29:31he cut me
1:29:33he let me go but he he cut
1:29:37he cut the
1:29:45no you when you took you off your
1:29:48sweater to show me the demonstration
1:29:50there's still some marks on your arm are
1:29:52those the marks from the string
1:29:55no where are they from
1:29:58from before
1:30:00okay so history wise we'll go into that
1:30:02okay so
1:30:04now
1:30:07as an event as to try and see this is
1:30:11the uh the little epis the little
1:30:13technique that we use to try and see if
1:30:15there's something during the course of
1:30:17what you've told me
1:30:19that boom I trigger something another
1:30:21memory okay we're going to start
1:30:25right now we're going to start at the
1:30:26point that you're being you're the
1:30:28officers arrive okay
1:30:31and we're going backwards
1:30:33not nearly as I don't need you to go
1:30:35into the and we're not going to be
1:30:36stopping here and going through to what
1:30:38about this and what about this
1:30:40it's you may come across something it's
1:30:43the reverse chronology of what you just
1:30:45described
1:30:46okay leading us back to
1:30:49the time you're in upstairs talking to
1:30:51Edward
1:30:54so I want you to start right now with
1:30:55your police officers arrive and they're
1:30:58cutting you free and now let's start
1:31:00going backwards from that
1:31:29okay
1:31:31I just don't want to see
1:31:33wrong things
1:31:36don't this is don't worry about saying
1:31:39wrong things because you'll be CL you'll
1:31:40be correct in a measure moving moving
1:31:42backwards okay it's a very well
1:31:44practiced technique to help in memories
1:31:46so especially in traumatic events
1:31:58so my dad was he had been out the door
1:32:05and he was moaning
1:32:14and just before that
1:32:17they had left the the people had left
1:32:35oh
1:32:46number one heads head
1:32:49it's been too long
1:32:52let's go
1:33:02before that was a gunshot
1:33:11before that they were scolding my dad
1:33:13for life because there was more money
1:33:14and he wasn't telling them where it was
1:33:36before that
1:33:42they were going down
1:33:49you're doing great okay you're doing
1:33:51great
1:33:58just before that they were going down
1:34:00the stairs
1:34:02but I can just hear my parents footsteps
1:34:06and my mom
1:34:08so I don't know how many of them went
1:34:10down
1:34:12but I know for sure number one was
1:34:14upstairs with me while they were
1:34:16starting to go down
1:34:19and then number one
1:34:22that's when like he was taking off my
1:34:24glasses and that's when he went down the
1:34:26stairs
1:34:48before that
1:34:54they tied me
1:35:08before that number two was upstairs as
1:35:10well
1:35:12and he was helping number one timey the
1:35:16banister
1:35:18before that number one turned to number
1:35:21two
1:35:22and said go get I need
1:35:25get me the string go get cuts
1:35:35that's when number two went down the
1:35:37stairs and came back up with the string
1:35:52before that
1:35:55number one had taken me and told me to
1:35:59sit down
1:36:01the top of the stairs
1:36:04number two was still in the bedroom
1:36:34before that
1:36:56we were in my parents room
1:36:59and he was asking about the wallet
1:37:01where's my dad's wallet
1:37:11I got the money
1:37:23don't worry about it keep going
1:37:36before that I was downstairs
1:37:40and they're looking for my mom's purse
1:37:45number three was asking about the wallet
1:37:47number two was looking for my mom's
1:37:49purse
1:37:53my mom kept standing up they're sitting
1:37:55down
1:37:55and they pushed her
1:37:58number
1:38:16for that I was in my room
1:38:25that's when he tied me up
1:38:36but before that I showed him the money
1:38:39before that
1:38:42I had heard them toss my parents room
1:38:43and that's when I looked out
1:38:45no the guy went down the stairs and then
1:38:47I looked out
1:38:54that's when he came and he pulled out
1:38:55his gun and told me to sit on my bed
1:39:02before that
1:39:04I heard my mom
1:39:07tell my dad to come downstairs
1:39:10and that's what I told Ed I'd call him
1:39:13back and put my phone
1:39:16my phone in my back
1:39:21is that okay yes
1:39:24when you said um that you saw during
1:39:27this process you heard the steps of the
1:39:29guy someone going downstairs did you
1:39:30hear your father going down the stairs
1:39:34whatever at that point in time
1:39:46I heard him get out of his room
1:39:52but then that's when I was telling Ed
1:39:54that I'd call him back
1:39:56he was responding to your mum's command
1:39:58yes
1:40:04okay
1:40:07in your kitchen
1:40:11there is
1:40:13uh rear sliding doors
1:40:17is there not and you're in the back area
1:40:19to get out to the back of your house
1:40:21is it sliding glass doors
1:40:26how is that normally how do you what is
1:40:28the normal position of of the blinds or
1:40:31or whatever when you during the day do
1:40:34you keep them covered are they exposed
1:40:36can you easily have access to get out to
1:40:38the backyard or do you have to open them
1:40:40like how is the normal routine
1:40:48it differs from
1:40:52it differs from time of day and time of
1:40:55year
1:40:57um my mom
1:41:07my mother likes to plant so in the
1:41:09daytime we have our blinds open
1:41:12um
1:41:15they're all the way out but they're open
1:41:16until that sunlight in
1:41:18and at night we close them
1:41:21because of
1:41:23our backyard Neighbors
1:41:25okay
1:41:28the sliding glass door
1:41:31is it locked all the time
1:41:34occasionally
1:41:36it's forgotten to be locked
1:41:39but for the most part we do check it
1:41:42before we go to bed
1:41:43before everybody the last person is
1:41:45supposed to check everything before
1:41:47turning in but on some occasions it's
1:41:50how do you know that it's been unlocked
1:41:52when my mother goes out to water the
1:41:55plants the next morning it's open and
1:41:58she makes a comment about that she
1:42:00comments to my father that he had
1:42:01forgotten when he went out to water his
1:42:03grass and the night before
1:42:07what about your front door how do you
1:42:09what is that when you guys are home or
1:42:12when you guys are home in the house do
1:42:15you lock your front door do you keep it
1:42:17or do you keep it all unlocked
1:42:21occasionally it's left unlocked
1:42:24because
1:42:28the way our family is we have family
1:42:30that come over after dinner so sometimes
1:42:32we leave the door unlocked but it will
1:42:35always be locked before bed the last
1:42:37person going into bed the last person
1:42:39always locks it yes
1:42:41yes and you said something about
1:42:43activates the alarm as well
1:42:46we activate the alarm before we go we
1:42:48leave the house
1:42:50so there's it's not activated when
1:42:52you're in the house and you're going to
1:42:53bed it's only when there's no one in the
1:42:55house
1:42:59um
1:43:07when was the last time that you went out
1:43:08through the back the back sliding glass
1:43:10doors that you remember
1:43:18oh a while I'd say
1:43:23the only time I go back there is if I'm
1:43:25barbecuing
1:43:30um the occasion my mom needs help
1:43:32carrying a
1:43:38if she needs help carrying something
1:43:39heavy
1:43:43okay what about a stranger's knock on
1:43:44your door
1:43:50whoever's downstairs normally goes to
1:43:53answer the door
1:43:54will they look out or will they just
1:43:56open the door no uh they tried to look
1:43:59through the sheerness of our curtain
1:44:03would you have you ever heard your mom
1:44:05or dad like if there's someone at the
1:44:07door who they don't recognize to go away
1:44:08and they won't open the door or will
1:44:10they always open the door to find out
1:44:12who even if they don't recognize someone
1:44:13well they try to go as quietly as
1:44:15possible and if they don't like a
1:44:18telemarketer or something they just walk
1:44:20away
1:44:22okay
1:44:24so
1:44:25I think we've
1:44:28if there's something else that I can
1:44:29that'll that pops into my head while or
1:44:31when I go out to talk to them later if
1:44:34there's something else that they want to
1:44:35ask me I'll come back to it
1:44:37what I want to do now is I want to go
1:44:40into your past okay
1:44:45and start talking about things that have
1:44:46been going on with you
1:44:49in in relation to your life okay
1:44:54you know not I'm not going back to
1:44:56Childhood that's not my interest is
1:44:59obviously in the last few years is
1:45:01what's going on do you have a boyfriend
1:45:05I had a boyfriend but no I don't have
1:45:08one what what's your what's your what
1:45:09was your boyfriend's name Daniel Daniel
1:45:12what Wong
1:45:13tell me about your relationship with you
1:45:15and Daniel
1:45:18it
1:45:19was a really tough one
1:45:22um
1:45:23we went to high school together
1:45:26he helped me through a really difficult
1:45:27time in high school
1:45:30when I have asthma but it
1:45:34it wasn't a concern it was only a
1:45:37concern I was younger
1:45:39um but when I went over to Europe
1:45:42um a lot of sick people were smoking
1:45:45cigarettes and it acted up over there
1:45:47and he took care of me over there when
1:45:49did you go to Europe
1:45:522003
1:45:54okay and how long were you there for
1:46:02okay
1:46:03so this is 2003 when you and Danny were
1:46:06started dating no later on in 2003 we
1:46:09were just friends at that point okay
1:46:11what grade were you in at that point
1:46:16so how does your relationship with Danny
1:46:18develop where does it go and how long
1:46:20does it last
1:46:22lasted about six years
1:46:26um it began in the summer of 2003 before
1:46:30my grade 12 year
1:46:32we were just really good friends and
1:46:35I guess it just
1:46:36happened like we just
1:46:38started going out
1:46:40well saying that we were going out but
1:46:44um I didn't really get to see him much
1:46:47let's talk about that why didn't you get
1:46:49the chance to see him much
1:46:51I wasn't allowed to have a boyfriend
1:46:54and that was when you were 18.
1:46:5717 . 17 turning in your 18th year
1:47:01yeah
1:47:02going into grade 12. okay
1:47:05and uh so who was against you having a
1:47:08boyfriend
1:47:09your father how is your mother in this
1:47:14she
1:47:22but I gotta find someone who was devoted
1:47:24to me
1:47:25but at that time she just my father was
1:47:28the one that enforced the rules and what
1:47:31were the issues your father had with a
1:47:32boyfriend was it Danny in particular or
1:47:34was it just a boy just any boy
1:47:37at that point so
1:47:40what happens how are you saying that
1:47:42you're not allowed to see this what what
1:47:44I know
1:47:45I know that there's certain ways that
1:47:48you can still get around your father not
1:47:50allowing you to see it when in grade 12
1:47:52uh we went to school together he
1:47:54transferred out but he'd come over
1:47:57to our original high school and he'd
1:48:01come see me okay and once in a while I'd
1:48:04go and skip class and go see him so you
1:48:08were seeing you were dating him
1:48:09essentially without your parents
1:48:11knowledge and consent yeah
1:48:13what would they have done to you if they
1:48:14have found out
1:48:15and did they find out
1:48:17not in high school no okay
1:48:20so you finish high school and then what
1:48:22do you do when you finish High School
1:48:28I was
1:48:30I wanted to do
1:48:32kinesiology
1:48:34but my my father was very adamant on
1:48:37doing something in the medical field
1:48:40that was a little bit more
1:48:43um in his opinion more
1:48:48like a more successful
1:48:50I guess you can say um he knew I didn't
1:48:52have the stomach for being a doctor
1:48:55um so he wanted me to become a
1:48:56pharmacist
1:48:57okay
1:48:58did you go to school for pharmacy to get
1:49:00into University for pharmacy
1:49:02so if you're be you finish your grade 12
1:49:05you go to Hawaii your OIC here
1:49:08that grade 12 is your finished your OIC
1:49:10year I don't have always I didn't have
1:49:12OAC I finished my grade 12. and then
1:49:14where
1:49:15where do you what do you do for the next
1:49:17few years well your dads want you to get
1:49:18into the medical field what do you do
1:49:21to get into piano
1:49:24what school
1:49:25I I was still taking classes at a
1:49:28conservative like a a school but I still
1:49:30recognized in the community as a
1:49:32teacher's license through the Royal
1:49:33Conservatory yes
1:49:35Okay so
1:49:38how is this interaction how is this
1:49:40going with your dad how is the how is
1:49:42your home life with the you're not now
1:49:45not living up to his expectations you
1:49:47didn't know I lied to him what did you
1:49:50lie to him what did you tell him that I
1:49:52was going to school
1:49:54four
1:49:55uh for just pre-m not pre-med sorry
1:49:58science for science Bachelor of Science
1:50:02you would have had bills for school how
1:50:04is how is that coming up how are these
1:50:06bills being paid for for University that
1:50:08you weren't going to I was working at
1:50:09Eastside Marios and
1:50:12I took care of myself
1:50:15so financially my father was never
1:50:19he never took hand in bills
1:50:22so he didn't know anything about pills
1:50:24did your mom know that you weren't going
1:50:25to University no
1:50:27so both your parents thought you had
1:50:29gone to University yes
1:50:32and um
1:50:34how long did that how long did they
1:50:37still to this point in time think that
1:50:38you had gone to University for for
1:50:39pharmacy for Sciences
1:50:44and
1:50:45how did you feel about that how did you
1:50:47feel about having to lie to your parents
1:50:49I felt guilty but every time I tried to
1:50:52bring it up
1:50:56there was just so much
1:51:00so much expectation
1:51:03do you have any resentment towards them
1:51:05for this
1:51:08I chose
1:51:09what I chose
1:51:11but in the end I was my family
1:51:14Okay so
1:51:16now you're not allowed to see boys how
1:51:18do you continue really your relationship
1:51:20while you're supposed to be at
1:51:21University working at Eastside Mario's
1:51:23are you working during the day do you
1:51:24say Mary's
1:51:26um sometimes but not all the time
1:51:29so how do how do you maintain this
1:51:31relationship with uh with Dan
1:51:34um I bust down to see him or my parents
1:51:36would drive me down to Toronto and they
1:51:40thought I was getting going to school
1:51:42but I'd go see him and I'd come back
1:51:44what school did they think you're going
1:51:46to version
1:51:47okay
1:51:49um
1:51:51was Daniel aware of what was going on in
1:51:53your with the issues in your life with
1:51:55your parents not at first but eventually
1:51:57he found out
1:51:59okay
1:52:00and
1:52:01um
1:52:03what would your parents do find out did
1:52:05they ever find out that you were dating
1:52:06Danny Daniel eventually well how long
1:52:08into the relationship was that
1:52:11say five years five years so that brings
1:52:13you up to 2008 or 2009 2008 2007 2008
1:52:21and how do they find out
1:52:25my mother saw him dropping me off
1:52:28at the location at Pacific Mall where
1:52:31they come to pick me up
1:52:33and how did that go over
1:52:36not well
1:52:38explain to me what not well means
1:52:47she
1:52:48said At first she was like
1:52:52not supportive but she said you need to
1:52:54tell me
1:52:56and she basically gave me the
1:52:59um
1:53:00the sex talk which basically was one
1:53:03moment could ruin your entire life
1:53:07but once my father found out without
1:53:10even knowing him he automatically
1:53:13put judgment
1:53:15what kind of judgment did your father
1:53:16pass on him
1:53:18he blamed my lying and
1:53:22even
1:53:24racial
1:53:26profiling
1:53:29on him and what does that mean I don't
1:53:31know about the racial profile he is half
1:53:34Filipino half Chinese yes and my father
1:53:38Associated him with Filipino and said
1:53:41that you know he wasn't a good match for
1:53:44me
1:53:45he wasn't going anywhere in life and
1:53:48um
1:53:49that
1:53:51he wouldn't be able to support a family
1:53:56so tell me about about Daniel
1:53:59we've interviewed Daniel
1:54:02okay so tell me about Daniel
1:55:24he was I believe uh selling selling
1:55:29selling some marijuana I believe okay
1:55:32you weren't aware that he was up to this
1:55:35type of business is that what yours is
1:55:36that what you're saying to me yes
1:55:39so um
1:55:40when he is
1:55:44when your parents find out what happens
1:55:47to you at home
1:55:50they
1:55:52pretty much
1:55:54make sure that I wouldn't contact him
1:55:56again and how do they do that
1:55:59they take away my cell phone and
1:56:01restrict internet access
1:56:04like they have to be in the room or not
1:56:06at all
1:56:09do you have a curfew
1:56:11if I go out with a friend that they know
1:56:14I have to be home before nine
1:56:16before nine o'clock yes and is that even
1:56:19up until
1:56:21Monday
1:56:22did you have a curfew up until Monday uh
1:56:25technically but I don't I haven't gone
1:56:27out for a while and why is it that you
1:56:29haven't gone over
1:56:32because they gave me an ultimatum
1:56:35who's
1:56:39will go or two about a year and a half
1:56:42ago
1:56:43and I chose to stay home with my family
1:56:46but even though he had moved on
1:56:49I we still wanted to be friends
1:56:54we went through a lot I was there
1:56:57for him and he was there for me when we
1:56:58needed each other
1:57:00so I
1:57:01whenever I could I would sneak a phone
1:57:03call here sneak a phone call there I'd
1:57:06ask a friend of mine to pick me up and
1:57:09to take me to see him and then take me
1:57:12back who is that friend
1:57:15uh Gary
1:57:17Gary Gibson Gibson
1:57:20uh I met Gary through Daniel
1:57:23and he
1:57:26he picked me up and took me to see
1:57:28Daniel and he made sure I got home
1:57:29afterwards
1:57:31so tell me about uh how come your
1:57:33parents allow you to speak to Edward or
1:57:37to Adrian in fact allow Adrian into the
1:57:39house
1:57:40Adrian
1:57:42since
1:57:44beginning of high school
1:57:46he
1:57:49my parents agree with his
1:57:54how do I explain this he went to school
1:57:56for engineering
1:57:59um he had a job
1:58:01and his mother was is a piano teacher as
1:58:05well like myself
1:58:07so in their eyes he had like
1:58:10a well
1:58:12a well-rounded life
1:58:14and because he didn't he took me out
1:58:17once like once in a while but not really
1:58:21but because he he has a car of his own
1:58:24so he comes over therefore they were
1:58:27able to interact with him and accepted
1:58:29him okay what about Edward
1:58:33um Edward was an old co-worker of mine
1:58:37um Edward only met my mom once at a gym
1:58:40at when we went to the gym I introduced
1:58:43him to my mom
1:58:44but he
1:58:46he only stops by well my parents are not
1:58:49home
1:58:50for about like an hour or so just to
1:58:53catch up but I haven't gone out to
1:58:55actually like
1:58:57we talk on the phone but that's pretty
1:58:59much I tried to meet him at the gym but
1:59:02that's so for the last year and a half
1:59:04since you chose the ultimatum was given
1:59:06to you as you in your words
1:59:09it's either Daniel and or your family
1:59:12yes
1:59:13and you say that you chose your family
1:59:15and you stayed home what have you been
1:59:17when when you say I stayed home what is
1:59:20your routine tell me for the last year
1:59:22and a half what what have you been doing
1:59:23I have been continuing my piano studies
1:59:26and my parents
1:59:29um enrolled me back into school
1:59:31into college into college at first I
1:59:34didn't have enough marks to get into the
1:59:36program I wanted so I had to do one year
1:59:39of
1:59:40like refresh a course of a calculus High
1:59:42School Credit and they never said to you
1:59:47you can get in and graduate with a
1:59:50science degree but you can't take that
1:59:53and now get in they never question you
1:59:55about college now you can't you don't
1:59:57have the marks to get into college how
1:59:59did you get around that
2:00:02I lied to them and said that calculus
2:00:04wasn't a big thing when I first applied
2:00:07uh when science but now calculus is more
2:00:10of a mandatory course
2:00:13what um
2:00:16and when was this happening that you
2:00:18were going back to school
2:00:19uh recently I went back Last Summer
2:00:24what's which college and I went to high
2:00:26school summer school program
2:00:29um it was that
2:00:30very
2:00:32I believe it's Ray buff
2:00:35um
2:00:35on Steals and Bayview and you graduated
2:00:38with that you're you've you've finished
2:00:39I completed the credit uh at upgrading
2:00:42my mark and have you did you apply to
2:00:44college yes yes and you were accepted
2:00:46accepted for January at which college
2:00:49Centennial College okay
2:00:51in what program bio
2:00:55bio
2:00:57biotechnology engineer okay
2:01:00so
2:01:04the last year and a half you've been
2:01:06doing your piano studies yes
2:01:09what is your routine like daily routine
2:01:12for the last year and a half when you
2:01:13say that I chose my family I chose to
2:01:15stay home
2:01:16well at first I
2:01:18continued phone contact with Daniel
2:01:21but uh that only lasted about
2:01:25one time I like I told you Gary came to
2:01:28pick me up to go see Daniel and I got
2:01:31caught
2:01:33and um
2:01:35that's when they took away my cell phone
2:01:38and they said that they drive me places
2:01:42and so pretty much I wake up I do my
2:01:45piano studies
2:01:46I may go see my teacher for lessons
2:01:51um at first they took me but then uh
2:01:54once my teacher was like yeah she's with
2:01:56me I was able to go and see him at his
2:02:00house
2:02:01once a week sometimes it was once every
2:02:04other week if he was busy
2:02:06and then I had another studies at a
2:02:10place called Euro music for the actual
2:02:12pedagogy course which is the actual
2:02:14teaching course and uh I went to those
2:02:17two classes once a week as well
2:02:20and pretty much it was home help out
2:02:23with housework and
2:02:26practice my piano and
2:02:29just wait for the college application
2:02:31College acceptance and did you go out
2:02:34were you allowed to go out at night
2:02:36I don't go out no the only time I went
2:02:39out was
2:02:42last time I went out
2:02:44was for my
2:02:49firm my one month uh my um my birthday
2:02:53and I was able a week ago to go see my
2:02:57friend on night of Halloween my mom
2:02:59would help
2:03:01um do a dance dance thing so it was
2:03:04Saturday night not Halloween night both
2:03:05Halloween weekend Saturday night
2:03:08um my friend topaz and I had made plans
2:03:11but my grandfather we wanted to go
2:03:13skating
2:03:14because I love to skate And since they
2:03:17know topaz and
2:03:18they like they confirmed that she was in
2:03:22fact going with me to skating and they
2:03:25have her number to call her to make sure
2:03:27I was there
2:03:28um and that I called when I got to her
2:03:30house
2:03:32um I got there and because I had let my
2:03:36friends know that my grandfather was ill
2:03:37and that I wasn't 100 sure she did she
2:03:40had to have any plans to get a hotel a
2:03:45babysitter so we just stay inside her
2:03:47house
2:03:52and then
2:03:55this other phone that Danny that Daniel
2:03:58gets to you
2:04:00how long do you are you able to keep
2:04:02that from your parents attention
2:04:05how long are you in how long do you have
2:04:07that phone
2:04:11you've had it for three months
2:04:14the last three months
2:04:16when do you switch from just using the
2:04:19phone to just pulling the SIM card and
2:04:20using it this is using some bullets and
2:04:22colored tips again
2:04:27just putting it back in my jacket pocket
2:04:29okay so this SIM card that you say was
2:04:33in your jacket pocket Which jacket is it
2:04:35that you're talking about
2:04:37um
2:04:40yes that I use in the fall
2:04:44and the last time you knew about it it
2:04:46was inside that jacket jacket yes and
2:04:48you believe you would believe there's no
2:04:49reason why it wouldn't still be there
2:04:51yes okay and where would that jacket be
2:04:54located
2:04:59behind
2:05:03the room area what we call the mud room
2:05:04area the garage door is it a laundry
2:05:06room where there's where you come in
2:05:07from the garage yeah okay not a laundry
2:05:10room but it's like a little Nook little
2:05:12Nook there's no the laundry is down we
2:05:14took the laundry downstairs okay
2:05:17um
2:05:19Danny Danny and and
2:05:22um his activities his his drug related
2:05:25activities
2:05:26did you ever engage or assist him in
2:05:28this in this practice no
2:05:31I told him I did not want anything to do
2:05:33with it
2:05:36um
2:05:37it's a tough question right is that are
2:05:40you involved in any type of illegal
2:05:42activity
2:05:44that would draw the attention of these
2:05:47type of people to come to your house
2:05:48looking for something I've never
2:05:51what about your parents
2:05:54not to my knowledge
2:05:55well not to your knowledge like are your
2:05:59parents is there any source of money
2:06:01coming into your house that is
2:06:03unaccounted for
2:06:05no
2:06:07would it be something that your parents
2:06:08would engage in gambling or illegal or
2:06:12illegal drug activity no well not I help
2:06:15my mother with all the bills and
2:06:17everything and
2:06:18nothing she never does it have like
2:06:21anything
2:06:22how new was that basement
2:06:25like they set up in the basement
2:06:28graduate in 2004
2:06:31we moved in in 2004
2:06:35I believe we moved in for about a year
2:06:37so I'd say either 2005
2:06:41or 2006. they moved it you guys
2:06:44renovated yes and um
2:06:48and at that time the basement was
2:06:49completed yes were your parents working
2:06:51at both at that time
2:06:56when we first moved into 2004 my father
2:06:58was unemployed he had got laid off from
2:07:02Magna yep my mother had transferred up
2:07:05to a place in Newmarket
2:07:07then my father found the job at where
2:07:10he's he was currently working at Kobe
2:07:14and stealth
2:07:16and then
2:07:17I forgot the year
2:07:21my mother got laid off
2:07:25believe in 2008
2:07:29or so
2:07:30and she's been looking for a job and
2:07:33been at home
2:07:34now
2:07:37um
2:07:42after talking to Daniel and when's the
2:07:45last time you you text message or
2:07:47communicated with him was when my
2:07:49grandfather was ill
2:07:51have you have you been experiencing
2:07:54anything what you would call in the last
2:07:56little while of any type of threats or
2:07:59threatening behavior yes
2:08:02tell me about that
2:08:04um his I don't well he says it's just a
2:08:08friend but everyone says it's his
2:08:10girlfriend
2:08:12um she has messaged me telling me to
2:08:15back off to leave Daniel alone
2:08:18and
2:08:20he's messaged me and he's like is that
2:08:22you calling but I wasn't calling or I'd
2:08:25be on the phone with him and he's like
2:08:26your other my Rogers line because I
2:08:28called him on the
2:08:30the phone he gave me yes
2:08:32and he'd say that my Rogers line was
2:08:34calling him
2:08:35and when I looked into it it was like on
2:08:38the on my bills those phone calls were
2:08:41made but I know I didn't make them
2:08:45so I couldn't explain it
2:08:49and I did get a letter in the mail
2:08:52saying that uh you're a dead person
2:08:54walking
2:08:57now why didn't you tell me about that
2:09:00last when I spoke to you the other day
2:09:04I everything had just happened I wasn't
2:09:10it was it just simply a letter yes it
2:09:13was uh cut out
2:09:15where is that letter
2:09:17it's garbage it's in the garbage yes
2:09:23I didn't think too much of it at the
2:09:25time and what did you equate it to
2:09:29just jealousy
2:09:32you still are equating it to the friend
2:09:34of the girlfriend well I don't want to
2:09:37like I don't know 100 so I don't want to
2:09:39point fingers why so if you're not 100
2:09:43and you don't want to point fingers why
2:09:45do you believe it's her because she has
2:09:48personally messaged me on Facebook
2:09:50telling me that I'm stupid and to back
2:09:53off and to leave Daniel alone
2:09:57okay and sometimes when I text him
2:10:01she texts me using his phone telling me
2:10:04that he's with his girlfriend Christine
2:10:07and to leave him alone
2:10:11the um
2:10:15is there something that happened to you
2:10:16that you never disclosed to the police
2:10:18before
2:10:20um
2:10:23that is something I lied to him about
2:10:26tell me about that
2:10:28um
2:10:29I told him I was raped
2:10:32but I was just very depressed and
2:10:37sorry this is very embarrassing don't do
2:10:39you haven't reported it to the police
2:10:40right this is a this is an interaction
2:10:42between you and an ex-boyfriend okay so
2:10:44you're you're not in any trouble for
2:10:46this and it's important that we clear it
2:10:48up because he's telling us stuff
2:10:50and then we're coming back to you so but
2:10:53this is something I lied to him about
2:10:54okay um and why did you say you were
2:10:57depressed and and when did this happen
2:10:59when did this when did you tell them
2:11:00about this
2:11:03maybe a year ago a year ago and what was
2:11:06it that you told me
2:11:08that
2:11:10um someone came to the door
2:11:12and when I went to open the door they
2:11:14pushed me down and read me
2:11:17did they did you give descriptions did
2:11:19you provide descriptions to them about
2:11:20it to him about it
2:11:24I might have I I don't remember exactly
2:11:27what I said
2:11:31telling me to my face that this never
2:11:33happened this never happened
2:11:35okay so it's not this isn't something
2:11:38that we need to be looking at as
2:11:40something that's tied to this yeah this
2:11:42is that was my lie to him okay for
2:11:45attention
2:11:47now
2:11:48did he what was his reaction to that
2:11:52report it
2:11:55but it wasn't real so I didn't report it
2:11:58okay
2:12:00now
2:12:01um
2:12:05did you ever would you ever have a
2:12:07figure if Danny if Daniel stopped being
2:12:10a drug dealer or engaged in or is he
2:12:12still dealing with that again this is
2:12:14not criminal it's more in lines of you
2:12:17know what would link
2:12:19someone to think that they're coming to
2:12:21your house for a large Quantum for money
2:12:23which is an obvious question
2:12:25I don't
2:12:27I've asked him what he's up to and he
2:12:29just says running like doing runs
2:12:32but I don't ask him into detail so when
2:12:34he says he's doing runs you're equating
2:12:36that too he's running still running
2:12:38drugs running errands running drugs
2:12:41seeing people I
2:12:43you just didn't ask him I just kind of
2:12:45went blind ear because I'm not with him
2:12:47okay
2:12:48did you ever receive again coming from
2:12:51we're going to ask it did you ever
2:12:52receive any other type of
2:12:54threatening text messages that you know
2:12:57More Than Just Words of what a person
2:13:00says uh you know don't see him or don't
2:13:02did you ever read receive anything that
2:13:04was
2:13:05certainly yeah I did get
2:13:08um some
2:13:10but
2:13:11I couldn't oh that's what I'm looking
2:13:14for it said that we have people
2:13:17that can erase this message
2:13:20um
2:13:21but it was just words it was just just
2:13:24stay away
2:13:25what were the words
2:13:26just stay away stay away Chris Christie
2:13:29and danical one one
2:13:32Life One Destiny or something like that
2:13:36so it was more in line with Danny and
2:13:38this more in line with it it's pretty
2:13:40much just leave like for me to stay away
2:13:42there was never any
2:13:44threat to you uh from any other
2:13:47Anonymous it always seems to you to have
2:13:51the heir of Danny's girlfriend or friend
2:13:53that's sending these threats just
2:13:56he says that is not her but from the all
2:14:00the messages are pretty much just to
2:14:02leave him alone so he can be happy
2:14:05but there's no
2:14:07there's no phone number that these
2:14:09things are coming back from no being
2:14:10sent from no
2:14:13um did you I know it was absurd but I
2:14:15couldn't explain it
2:14:17no well I don't I I with the technology
2:14:21today anything is possible I'm not I'm
2:14:25not I'd never be able to to look you in
2:14:27the face and say that's not possible
2:14:28because
2:14:30what kids can do with computers and do
2:14:32with technology I I you know anything in
2:14:34my opinion is now but it was just words
2:14:36it was never
2:14:39more than that anything to the effect of
2:14:41seeing Bang Bang
2:14:44to me yes no
2:14:46are you aware of someone else getting a
2:14:48message like that Daniel said that he
2:14:49got messages saying fun fun fun bang
2:14:52bang bang
2:14:53what did you ever equate that to
2:14:57did he tell you
2:14:59he just said these messages basically
2:15:01kept telling him to make sure I stayed
2:15:03away from him and to make that girl
2:15:06happy
2:15:07okay and that they knew what he was up
2:15:09to
2:15:11they even said that they knew like
2:15:15what are like I'd text him something and
2:15:18for some reason they knew that I texted
2:15:20him and that they knew that I called him
2:15:22stuff like that
2:15:24do you have
2:15:26um
2:15:28have you ever received other than that
2:15:31letter
2:15:32that other thing I also made up the
2:15:35bullet in the mail and how long ago was
2:15:38that
2:15:40just a few months ago okay and was that
2:15:43an attention grabber for him again
2:15:45you still have feelings for Daniel don't
2:15:47you yes okay so you're having trouble
2:15:50with that you're having trouble getting
2:15:51over the fact that the relationship is
2:15:53over
2:15:54because of the terms of how it happened
2:15:56I've accepted that that it's over but I
2:15:59still
2:16:00want to take care of him
2:16:03but unfortunately I made a decision and
2:16:05I need I had to stick by it your
2:16:08relationship with Daniel was broken up
2:16:09because of your parents ultimatum not
2:16:11because she didn't care for him anymore
2:16:12yes
2:16:14yes that's that's an obvious what you
2:16:16can say right because you still have
2:16:18feelings and you're still trying to
2:16:19trigger them with the bullet you know
2:16:21even just that are these tech text
2:16:24messages you're receiving are they
2:16:25fictitious are you making that up no
2:16:28100 percent
2:16:30okay
2:16:31now the letter you received
2:16:34is it fictitious or did he make it up or
2:16:36sorry is it fictitious or is it real
2:16:38it's real it's real and how sorry no it
2:16:42just happened like before most of this
2:16:44stuff happened so I just brushed it
2:16:46aside
2:16:47okay so what happened before what most
2:16:49of what stuff happened most of like
2:16:52before I knew about her and before I
2:16:54knew
2:16:55like before she messaged me ever okay
2:16:58now
2:17:00how often did you use this other phone
2:17:02you said you said it was back when your
2:17:05father that's the last time you used it
2:17:07but how many times would you you know
2:17:09like from the last year once a day once
2:17:12a day or usually
2:17:15um
2:17:15yeah once a day who was paying for that
2:17:18Daniel Daniel was paying for that
2:17:25um
2:17:26so the the incident those two incidents
2:17:29that you made up the bullet and the and
2:17:31the the being raped those never happen
2:17:33no
2:17:37is there anything else you can think of
2:17:39in this were you dating anyone else do
2:17:42you see anyone else during this during
2:17:44during this year and a half no they are
2:17:46dating no no
2:17:49I just I saw Adrian because he came he
2:17:52came over but I wasn't seeing him like
2:17:54romantically or anything
2:17:57um I
2:17:59saw just my uh tight-knit group of
2:18:02friends which are uh my girlfriend's
2:18:05topaz topaz yes topaz last name chew
2:18:09topaz chew uh her husband
2:18:12and where okay we won't say where they
2:18:14live because it's being videoed but I
2:18:15need to get an idea if we haven't spoken
2:18:17to him we'd like to speak to them okay
2:18:19who else
2:18:22Adrian
2:18:23child lives in
2:18:24in he lives away but sometimes he comes
2:18:27into town and he'll come to my house and
2:18:30ask my parents to take me out just for a
2:18:32coffee to catch up about half hour and
2:18:33then he takes me back home okay that's
2:18:36that's three who else is type Adrian
2:18:39um
2:18:41Adrians you've spoken to if you've
2:18:44spoken to already Edward uh
2:18:47and and so he's in that Loop of tight
2:18:50net friend uh no he's uh separate okay
2:18:53who else is in his other tight-knit
2:18:54group of friends
2:18:56well we're it type oh I don't speak to
2:18:58them often um Cecilia Pang
2:19:02and uh Jerome we fall in and out like
2:19:04periodically like maybe a couple months
2:19:06where we talk almost every week and then
2:19:09sometimes we go a month or two without
2:19:11talking Jerome Liu
2:19:13okay
2:19:15um
2:19:16so that's Adrian Adrian topaz Chi hey
2:19:21Cecilia
2:19:23myself and
2:19:26um there's one more uh Carson uh
2:19:31forgot his last name
2:19:35he's more like a fur him and myself
2:19:37aren't that close but he does
2:19:40hang around all of us if we go to
2:19:43um for example when my friend had a baby
2:19:45we were all there together now what
2:19:47about again
2:19:49I apologize for the name Gary Gibson
2:19:51Gibbons or Gibson Gibson Simpson yes
2:19:54where is he in his I haven't spoken to
2:19:57him in a long time I'd say about a year
2:20:00but prior to that we spoke quite a bit
2:20:03um
2:20:04yes but he was your link to Danny right
2:20:07to get to Danny to drop you off well he
2:20:09he spoke to he'd call Daniel if I like
2:20:11if he didn't answer my calls and
2:20:14um we hung out on our own as well what
2:20:17do you know about Daniel's girlfriend
2:20:18Christine
2:20:21um the only thing I know is that she's
2:20:22living with her father
2:20:26school she lost her mother
2:20:29I believe she has a child
2:20:32and I don't know where the father is in
2:20:35that okay
2:20:37um Daniel's told me that this is just
2:20:39what Daniel has told me that uh she's
2:20:41going through a custody battle
2:20:44and uh that every time I ask him like
2:20:47are you what are you doing he's like
2:20:49making runs with Christine
2:20:51so making runs with Christine yeah and
2:20:55I'm sorry when you say what runs would
2:20:59you know for me listening to making a
2:21:01run are you making would you draw the
2:21:03inference that that's back to the drug
2:21:04business I would but I kinda
2:21:08I didn't go more into that don't go more
2:21:10into it what do you what do you take
2:21:12that as as just hearing it at face value
2:21:14that he was going to meet somebody for
2:21:17drugs or and Christine's along for the
2:21:19ride
2:21:20I was told like in his words that he was
2:21:23the one taking her to go see people that
2:21:26she knew
2:21:28that she knew yes okay
2:21:31and that everything was at her house or
2:21:34something like that
2:21:36okay
2:21:38I want you to sit tight do you want to
2:21:41get you some water yes please okay I
2:21:43want you to sit tight I'm just gonna go
2:21:44talk to uh to Deborah she's Deborah
2:21:46Gladding she's been monitoring I'm also
2:21:48going to talk to the primary
2:21:49investigator okay
2:21:51um we're gonna get you some water and
2:21:54and we're sort of moving through this is
2:21:56great okay I appreciate the fact that
2:21:58you're honest with me to tell me that
2:21:59these things were made up
2:22:02I can't lie right and you can't because
2:22:05it well if you're if you're raped and
2:22:08you receive bullets
2:22:09those are some pretty significant
2:22:11threats right I understand okay
2:22:13um
2:22:14there was also one other thing we were
2:22:18getting private phone calls
2:22:20um at my house as well
2:22:22I didn't never told my brother because
2:22:24he was at school yeah
2:22:26um when we picked up they'd always hang
2:22:29up
2:22:30and one time
2:22:33my father had picked up
2:22:35and like I said Mondays my mother would
2:22:38go dancing yes and when this one time I
2:22:44picked up the phone with my father was
2:22:45already on the phone
2:22:46and there was this woman on the other
2:22:48line and I don't know who it was
2:22:49and and they were speaking Chinese which
2:22:52is
2:22:53a little bit off for me because my
2:22:56father's Chinese isn't isn't his first
2:22:59language okay
2:23:01and uh my father doesn't even know I was
2:23:03on the line but this woman was saying
2:23:06you have to come over right away
2:23:08right away you have to come now
2:23:10and my father kept saying I can't come
2:23:12over
2:23:13no and she's like I don't care you have
2:23:15to come now
2:23:18um like I said he still does to this day
2:23:20doesn't know that I heard that
2:23:21conversation and
2:23:24um
2:23:25he when he went
2:23:27down the stairs to see me because I was
2:23:30in the main on the main floor he was
2:23:31upstairs when he answered the phone
2:23:33he was like I'm going to go and uh my
2:23:36cousin Michelle
2:23:38she said I'm gonna go to Michelle's
2:23:40house to I believe their tap was running
2:23:43or he had he's a handyman with a
2:23:45housework so they asked him to fix it
2:23:48but I believe I don't remember where
2:23:50they were they were out and I remember
2:23:52because I was uh I believe this is
2:23:55during the summer of this past year 2010
2:23:58yes like summer of 2010 and
2:24:01uh me and Michelle we went to we go to
2:24:03the gym together
2:24:04so uh she had mentioned that day that
2:24:08she had
2:24:10I I'm sorry I don't remember what but
2:24:12she had an errand to run with her mother
2:24:13and I was like I think it was a doctor's
2:24:15appointment or something and I told my
2:24:17dad that I believe they're out they're
2:24:18not home and he's like I'm gonna go
2:24:21so he left
2:24:23and when he left
2:24:25um I had called my my aunt I believe my
2:24:27aunt called me back where I had called
2:24:29her somehow we connected with each other
2:24:31and they said that he uh they were not
2:24:33home yet but they're on their way they
2:24:34would be there in about a half hour
2:24:37by that my father never came home and
2:24:40my father says he was driving around
2:24:43their block
2:24:44waiting for them but when I confronted
2:24:47him I said I thought they were they said
2:24:50that they weren't home and he's like I
2:24:51was driving around the block
2:24:52but when I had I didn't know how to
2:24:55process this and so I confided and
2:24:57Michelle when we're at the gym
2:24:59and she said that when she came home she
2:25:02did drive because
2:25:04they have um
2:25:06her garage is in the back of her house
2:25:08so there's like a streetway that's just
2:25:10garages and when my father goes over he
2:25:13likes to use the back door and knocks on
2:25:15the door in the back door because it's
2:25:16convenient because everyone's in the
2:25:18back of the house usually with the
2:25:19kitchen
2:25:21um so she said that she read like she
2:25:22drove in two circles before
2:25:25I mean she drove around to check before
2:25:27she went in but my father was never
2:25:29there
2:25:30does Michelle speak Chinese yes
2:25:34um yes she does is your Aunt this is
2:25:37your cousin is Michelle yes my cousin
2:25:39Michelle yes and your aunt's name is
2:25:45and uh so did was your father ever at
2:25:48that house eventually she said that he
2:25:50did come over and he helped them out and
2:25:53came back home but when you listened on
2:25:55the phone line did you recognize the
2:25:57female as being Michelle or or it was
2:25:59not it was not her and her mother I know
2:26:01that but it was a voice I've never heard
2:26:03before
2:26:04a lady's voice that I've never heard
2:26:05before
2:26:06and
2:26:08um like I said these phone calls were
2:26:09happening periodically but every time we
2:26:11answered they they'd hang up on us
2:26:13meaning you or your mom yes because my
2:26:15mother and I had voiced it and my
2:26:18we voiced it
2:26:20and a few days later
2:26:22I was home by myself and I got a private
2:26:26call and I didn't hear them click like
2:26:28hang up clicking
2:26:30so I yelled in Chinese do not call this
2:26:33number ever again
2:26:35and they called probably once after that
2:26:37and never returned like the private call
2:26:39stopped
2:26:40and so when did this stop when did this
2:26:42happen and when is he said the summer by
2:26:45the end of the summer the summer this is
2:26:46August September
2:26:48like late August early September and
2:26:51this is the to the house line yes and
2:26:53what's the house line phone number
2:26:54905-477-3867
2:27:01okay
2:27:02sit tight is there any other any other
2:27:04incidents that jog your memory
2:27:11any other boyfriends in between this
2:27:13time period no
2:27:16okay sit tight let me get you some water
2:27:18let me ask some questions okay if you
2:27:19want to stand up and walk around I
2:27:21understand it's not we're not telling
2:27:22you to sit tight literally but it may be
2:27:24a couple of minutes okay um
2:27:27what do you need to go to washroom no I
2:27:29just I don't
2:27:31know I'm gonna leave the door open a
2:27:32little bit okay okay is that does that
2:27:33work for you
2:27:34and remember
2:27:36right through that glass you can
2:27:37actually I don't know sear but that's
2:27:38where she's sitting so she actually
2:27:40you're you're just she's just in another
2:27:42room but she's a part of this room
2:27:44okay
2:27:47foreign
2:30:02foreign
2:30:23all right
2:30:25do you need a bathroom break
2:30:27yes okay let me just clear the hallway
2:30:30and then I'll escort you out okay
2:30:57okay
2:31:58people
2:33:24foreign
2:33:26foreign
2:33:37you could just stand up it's up to you
2:33:40I'm just uh
2:33:42okay we'll just wait by the door then
2:33:43that's fine you could
2:33:46not
2:33:47just a little
2:33:48rattle okay yeah are you doing fine
2:33:51you're doing good you're doing good
2:34:03are you hungry
2:34:05no no
2:34:11the choices I've made I haven't been the
2:34:14best but
2:34:17you know what
2:34:21it's just part of life
2:34:23I mean it's it's you know we have to we
2:34:26learn
2:34:27and
2:34:28we make mistakes and make mistakes and
2:34:37be honest
2:34:48foreign
2:35:53I won't close the door too much okay
2:37:55sorry you're okay
2:38:07so I'm just going over everything
2:38:12hmm
2:38:14I'm just going it through everything and
2:38:16I just
2:38:19it's just like pieces here and pieces
2:38:21there and I don't
2:38:23I don't want to save
2:38:25something wrong or like
2:38:28just because I think I'm overthinking
2:38:30everything and it's just like
2:38:32I don't think you can
2:38:37we the truth is the truth right it's not
2:38:41no okay it is it is what it is
2:38:44and
2:38:46no it doesn't like what the details and
2:38:48everything like I just
2:38:51I get right so like everything could be
2:38:55everything could be right
2:38:57but it's just like it's pieces and
2:39:00yeah but I mean you know you know all
2:39:02the pieces are gonna they're not they're
2:39:04all gonna come together and you're it's
2:39:06it's all gonna
2:39:08fit right because what you're gonna be
2:39:10what you're saying is the truth
2:39:13like every time I think of those things
2:39:16it just it gets me all worked up
2:39:19but I have to think about it but I don't
2:39:20I don't want to
2:39:23and then like it just
2:39:26it brings back all everything okay
2:39:30and that's gonna happen for a little bit
2:39:31though too you realize that right I know
2:39:34it's just it's a lot yeah yeah
2:39:38and it's just like I did it I don't want
2:39:39to do it again
2:39:41you know but I mean even when you least
2:39:44expect it even you know it's it's gonna
2:39:46happen
2:39:49and now it's just like he's asking me
2:39:52these questions like I should have
2:39:53I should have
2:39:57and I was like maybe I should have been
2:39:59more like attentive like
2:40:02it just happened so fast and it's like
2:40:04he's asking me like the shoes and
2:40:06everything and yeah I can't give them
2:40:08the answers I don't know and and that's
2:40:11right you're right and we don't expect
2:40:13you to you know you don't want to make
2:40:15up something no I'm not because you know
2:40:17you want I wish I was able to answer
2:40:20like I want to be able to answer it so
2:40:23it'd be not easier but it's it helped
2:40:26yeah but if you don't know you don't
2:40:28know
2:40:31really that's that's the bottom line if
2:40:33you don't know you don't know
2:40:34I don't know who are we to say because
2:40:37we weren't there you you're the one
2:40:39that's going through this we're not
2:40:40there
2:40:41so
2:40:43like Randy was saying what you remember
2:40:45back then you know you've had a couple
2:40:48of days and you know things start to
2:40:50come back in your mind you know it's it
2:40:53happens so don't be too hung up on oh
2:40:57well I didn't remember oh I should have
2:40:59remembered oh why couldn't I remember
2:41:01don't
2:41:03she makes me feel like I should have no
2:41:19honestly I'm still like beating myself
2:41:21up like I should have
2:41:22no don't do that you don't like being
2:41:25there's no apologies needed there's no
2:41:28there's none of that there's none of
2:41:30that gen you don't need to to be beating
2:41:32yourself up over
2:41:41this is some heavy duty stuff
2:41:44I mean this is uh you've been through
2:41:46you've been through something but you
2:41:48know
2:41:49very traumatic
2:41:54did you get a hold of Julia no I haven't
2:41:57still haven't heard yet
2:42:04and I kind of want to be here if you
2:42:06need me right on the uh right on the go
2:42:09so but you know what once once I'm able
2:42:12to to touch base with her again I'll do
2:42:15them all to that and I know that she'll
2:42:16get in touch with you
2:43:19I'm trying to use there anything else
2:43:21like
2:44:19supposedly
2:44:43is there anything else you can
2:44:46you know what you've no I'm
2:45:00just it's just like going over again and
2:45:02it's okay
2:45:04just wait till Randy comes back and you
2:45:06know what if he has some other questions
2:45:07for you he'll he'll ask them
2:45:49foreign
2:47:47and
2:47:54a thing you do
2:47:58it's embarrassing
2:48:01when I when I lose control I
2:48:04don't think I feel I can control is
2:48:08what I feel okay well I just I just
2:48:11heard the sound that's what it was like
2:48:13it was a sound that Drew my attention so
2:49:35foreign
2:50:21foreign
2:51:22everything we said here too is
2:51:24confidential here right sorry everything
2:51:27I said here today was just confidential
2:51:29to hear right
2:51:30just confidential people like it I don't
2:51:36everybody knows that
2:51:39everyone perceives
2:51:47I don't want to disappoint
2:51:49my mother
2:51:51like I don't want to
2:51:54like I said I haven't told her like they
2:51:57don't know about that University stuff
2:52:01and I don't want
2:52:05people who saw one mother as a good
2:52:07person I think
2:52:09following of her
2:52:12okay well what you're saying in here
2:52:15is not going to go anywhere
2:52:20because everyone says she's such a good
2:52:22mom yeah
2:52:24change
2:52:31what you're saying in here is is then
2:52:37the compliance of this
2:52:41designation so
2:52:43so you know that's not something that we
2:52:44would
2:52:46release out
2:52:49okay
2:52:54did you hear from the coroner's office I
2:52:57didn't no no if there's another officer
2:52:59that did another detective that um
2:53:02did I can I haven't spoken to him yet
2:53:12have they been able to find out anything
2:53:15and that I don't know I don't I don't
2:53:18know
2:53:18um when Randy comes back in here
2:53:22you can ask them all you can ask them
2:53:24those questions and as well he's not the
2:53:27lead investigator on this he there it is
2:53:30a different individual that's the lead
2:53:31investigator so if you've got some
2:53:34questions I'll certainly
2:53:38try to answer them and and then we could
2:53:41take it from there
2:53:45but I don't want to give you information
2:53:46that is not correct so I just want you
2:53:50know if there's something specific that
2:53:51you want to know
2:53:54not like do they have any
2:53:57like leads or suspects or did anyone say
2:54:00where the car went after or and that
2:54:02that I don't know so that would be
2:54:04something that you know what I'd have to
2:54:06find out for you
2:54:09it's like is there any
2:54:12anything yeah I know I know you have a
2:54:15lot of it a lot of questions you have a
2:54:17lot of questions and
2:54:19and can't I don't know the answers for
2:54:21you it just feels like I'm answering
2:54:23questions but you're not giving a lot
2:54:26you're not getting a lot of
2:54:28answers right now
2:54:30yeah
2:54:58I don't like this part the waiting
2:55:06so I can understand I don't like it
2:55:08either like if you're here you can ask
2:55:10me I can
2:55:12give him anything I can think of but
2:55:15I know
2:56:13Nation
2:56:21I'm good fine thanks
2:56:40foreign
2:57:42are you do you want something to eat I'm
2:57:45starving I don't know about you I don't
2:57:46know how you can go without
2:57:49I can get you something to eat
2:57:51even if it's a bagel
2:57:56you're feeling a little light-headed you
2:57:58want some chips or something like that
2:57:59like that you need some junk food
2:58:04you sure
2:58:07what can I get you
2:58:10if you can eat something right now what
2:58:11would it be
2:58:15yeah but you're lightheaded
2:58:21maybe you should sit down a little bit
2:58:23too okay because you've been doing a lot
2:58:25of pacing you need to just sit down for
2:58:28a bit
2:58:31if you need something with some sugar in
2:58:32it just to give you some energy
2:58:41you know that's your stomach saying
2:58:42you're hungry
2:58:45do you want a candy bar
2:59:02thank you
3:00:05I'm using the water I'm sorry more water
3:00:08I'm okay
3:00:16foreign
3:00:21thank you
3:02:20thank you
3:03:37foreign
3:04:51foreign
3:04:53hi Jennifer hey
3:04:59here
3:05:00take some Kleenex
3:05:02take some Kleenex
3:05:05tell me what you're feeling right now
3:05:06what's going on
3:05:14you might as well get used to this you
3:05:15got to get it out so tell me what you're
3:05:17feeling right now
3:05:22I'm just
3:05:23gotta think
3:05:25if it makes me feel like I should have
3:05:30it's a thing called Survivor is guilt
3:05:33okay that you're gonna go through that
3:05:35you're gonna you're gonna then this is
3:05:37the the stuff about the therapy and and
3:05:39getting to speak to someone because
3:05:41their stages of grieving that you're
3:05:42going to go through
3:05:44okay and this is the only way you're
3:05:47going to go through this is with
3:05:48properly is with help I think victim
3:05:50Services is engaged right they're trying
3:05:52to help you so just stick with them
3:05:55okay it's a long road but it's it can be
3:05:58a very successful Road okay and and what
3:06:01you're feeling I hate to say is normal
3:06:04but it is it's something that a lot of
3:06:06people who are in the same circumstance
3:06:08will feel
3:06:10okay but what I want to do is I want to
3:06:12finish off on this so that we can let
3:06:14you go and get and get out of the police
3:06:17station
3:06:18okay because I appreciate your time and
3:06:20I appreciate your help
3:06:22so what is in the safe
3:06:31the last time
3:06:35I opened it my mom took out our
3:06:36passports
3:06:38and I
3:06:40I she's she has the combination I don't
3:06:44have the combination you don't have the
3:06:45combination for the safe just your mom
3:06:47okay and so there was passports no large
3:06:51quantities of cash in there
3:06:57not that I'm not that I know of because
3:07:00she asked me to
3:07:03help pay for our two trips
3:07:05okay
3:07:08and what did you get that what did you
3:07:09have the two thousand dollars for what
3:07:11did you where did you make that money
3:07:13I had
3:07:16ah I was saving up to get a new cell
3:07:19phone do you have a BlackBerry
3:07:22oh you gave it to Daniel okay the
3:07:25brother gave it to me from his friend
3:07:26but you have so the Blackberry is it in
3:07:28your name
3:07:29that you've given to Daniel so does Dan
3:07:31it was yours and you've given it to me
3:07:32my brother's friend didn't it was an old
3:07:36my brother's friend gave it
3:07:41I gave it to Daniel when did you give it
3:07:43to dania
3:07:50I gave it to a friend to give to Daniel
3:07:52how long ago
3:07:54a couple
3:07:56maybe a week a week week ago a week
3:07:59maybe a week in a bit what's the PIN
3:08:02command for that you know do you have a
3:08:04personal identification number for
3:08:05security reasons have you ever been
3:08:07given that by by Blackberry no no
3:08:09there's there's no lock that I know
3:08:12okay so
3:08:14um
3:08:17Daniel
3:08:19is was
3:08:21and likely Still Remains to be a drug
3:08:23dealer
3:08:25self-admitted when he was in the air the
3:08:27other day no so stepping back from that
3:08:30is I had asked you is prior to the
3:08:32incident when's the last time you spoke
3:08:34to Daniel what I should have said to you
3:08:36is when is the last time from today
3:08:39for back that you spoke to Daniel when
3:08:42is the last time you met with him and
3:08:44spoke with him
3:08:47did you talk to him
3:08:51he didn't see him or talk to him any
3:08:53other times other than right here in the
3:08:55police station
3:08:59and if I told you that Daniel says that
3:09:01you spoke to him
3:09:03you did have a conversation with him
3:09:05somewhere else
3:09:18he would be lying
3:09:27I thought I spoke to him was when he
3:09:28asked for the Blackberry
3:09:32and that was a week ago
3:09:39my father had just he was in the
3:09:41hospital and I snuck over and dropped it
3:09:44off for a friend
3:09:45at his paintball place and who is the
3:09:47friend that you gave it to I only
3:09:50know
3:09:51question and where's the paintball place
3:09:55Victoria
3:09:58Park Victoria Park and McNichol between
3:10:00McNichol and
3:10:06when
3:10:10there's a lot of people remember I told
3:10:11you about the media
3:10:13they're bad they can be very bad when
3:10:15they start to sniff around and they they
3:10:17sense something
3:10:18and I can tell you that the media is
3:10:21portraying
3:10:23that this was supposed to be some sort
3:10:25of drug related
3:10:26that you guys weren't a random Target
3:10:28that you were a targeted house because
3:10:30of
3:10:31drug activity
3:10:35what would you say to that
3:10:38I don't
3:10:40okay
3:10:42tell me more about that you don't deal
3:10:44the drugs are you involved in the
3:10:45transportation and just distribution no
3:10:48have you ever been with Danny this is
3:10:50something that's very important
3:10:52have you ever been with Danny when
3:10:54Danny's doing that
3:10:55he normally leaves me with a friend and
3:10:57says
3:11:00and like like normally when is that
3:11:02normally that was three four years ago
3:11:05three or four years
3:11:18was he dealing with big quality he said
3:11:19were you aware of it honestly I
3:11:22I wanted nothing to do with it so I
3:11:24refused to know what he was doing okay
3:11:27and
3:11:28the times that you snuck out and spoke
3:11:30to him how many times a month up until
3:11:32the last time you handed the Blackberry
3:11:34you'd see him once a week
3:11:37well prior to this I'd only see him
3:11:40once a month
3:11:44a month yeah so I wasn't able to uh go
3:11:47anywhere I was out with them so this
3:11:49month I've only seen him
3:11:51twice this month I mean October I saw
3:11:54him twice in October and you but you
3:11:56text you said you text message him every
3:11:58day once at least once more or less
3:12:01um you know and that could be a string
3:12:03of text messages right it's not just hey
3:12:05how are you doing fine and that's the
3:12:06end of the text message it'd be a string
3:12:08of communication huh that you were
3:12:09texting it it was it'd just be where you
3:12:12at are you at work how are you and
3:12:16miss you or
3:12:18what are you doing today and
3:12:21the so when you go out and see them for
3:12:25once during the time once once a week I
3:12:28I tell my parents that I was going to
3:12:30class yes and before class or after
3:12:33class I'd go buy him lunch and bring it
3:12:35by his work
3:12:36and sometimes I would see him and
3:12:38sometimes I just give it to a co-worker
3:12:39to give to him and how long when you see
3:12:41him how long would you see him for
3:12:4310 minutes 15 minutes because he was
3:12:46working when you weren't when he wasn't
3:12:48working and you were able to get out and
3:12:50see him how long
3:12:51it hasn't happened
3:12:53and how long is a long time
3:12:55the last time I saw him
3:12:57outside of that was when Gary picked me
3:12:59up and I got caught by my parents
3:13:01and that was I'd say a year if not a
3:13:03year and a half almost and why why did
3:13:06he want your blackberry
3:13:08he said that he had sold his BlackBerry
3:13:11so he needed a phone
3:13:14and
3:13:16that BlackBerry
3:13:18what like I'm kind of confused is was
3:13:21that an active phone
3:13:23no because now we're talking about three
3:13:24phones now we're talking or we got a SIM
3:13:26card we got the phone that your parents
3:13:28know you have and you got a BlackBerry
3:13:30up until a week ago
3:13:32yes
3:13:33so the Blackberry is what I was using
3:13:35with my own Roger SIM card this phone
3:13:37I'm using now was an old phone that I no
3:13:40longer used
3:13:41okay so because the reception the
3:13:44Blackberry was your normal phone that
3:13:45you were using on a regular basis yes
3:13:47and
3:13:49um and you would switch SIM cards if so
3:13:51if you were going to communicate with
3:13:52him with the other SIM card you put the
3:13:54SIM card in that blackberry and talk to
3:13:55him through that I had an iPhone I had
3:13:58an iPhone I kept in my room that my
3:13:59parents didn't know about
3:14:01um because my brother I had one that
3:14:04Daniel gave me earlier but it broke yeah
3:14:06so my brother what he did was he fixed
3:14:09the part so he can have one that he used
3:14:10himself but uh the one I had wasn't
3:14:13fully functioning it was just able it
3:14:16had no internet access on it so I just
3:14:18kept it for phone calls and I kept it
3:14:21and where is that phone now it should be
3:14:23still on my
3:14:24in my room yes where
3:14:30I believe it was on my
3:14:32table or something or on my counter and
3:14:35it doesn't have a SIM card in it right
3:14:36now
3:14:41okay
3:14:42so
3:14:43there's an iPhone on by your desk on
3:14:47your desk somewhere in that in your room
3:14:48yes
3:14:49and
3:14:51um
3:14:51the Rogers I mean the Blackberry that
3:14:54you had had up until a week and it went
3:14:55to Daniel and and for what reason it
3:14:57went today he had a black another a
3:15:00newer Blackberry but he said someone
3:15:02wanted to buy it like a friend of his
3:15:03wanted to buy it and that he needed a
3:15:06phone temporarily so he took your phone
3:15:09so I I had another phone as well so I
3:15:11said okay I'll lend you this one
3:15:15so um
3:15:18it sounds as if you couldn't let Danny
3:15:21go
3:15:22like you're you're still there you're
3:15:24still hoping
3:15:26The Hope isn't much but but you're still
3:15:28hoping I still you're not you're not
3:15:30walking away from them right you haven't
3:15:33walked away from them even with the
3:15:34comments that you've received these
3:15:37comments from I had and then
3:15:42but
3:15:44I had for a while I disappeared from him
3:15:46for a while but I needed
3:15:49it was just he
3:15:51he said
3:15:53calm that he can he can make me calm so
3:15:56I reached back out to him so is the is
3:15:59it you instigating all the communication
3:16:01or does he reach but does he start he
3:16:03reach back as well
3:16:06now
3:16:09you have to figure as I said the media
3:16:11can be horrific in some cases and I I
3:16:13told you not to read or pay attention to
3:16:16the news
3:16:17and I know for a fact that in one of the
3:16:19newspapers that the angle that's being
3:16:22portrayed right now is that this was a
3:16:24drug that you guys were um uh not a
3:16:27random but a targeted residence
3:16:29because of drug related activity
3:16:32you and your family were engaged in drug
3:16:34related activity
3:16:37now
3:16:38is it possible
3:16:40that Danny
3:16:43that you are being mistaken somehow as
3:16:46being involved in his life in that angle
3:16:48of things well I haven't been around his
3:16:50life for a while like going out with him
3:16:55but
3:16:56I wouldn't say it's completely out of
3:16:58the question but I haven't I don't I
3:17:01don't go around with him when he's doing
3:17:03that kind of stuff I
3:17:05I don't like it and I refuse to be a
3:17:07part of that and now what do you say
3:17:08about Chris the comment about Christine
3:17:10and the running
3:17:12I kind of took a blind eye to that but
3:17:14are you is it is it your understanding
3:17:17that she may be not only part of it but
3:17:19linking him to the people involved in
3:17:21this activity
3:17:24and
3:17:26because like I told you he gives me that
3:17:28answer and I kind of take a blind eye
3:17:30but if I were to
3:17:34tell you what I thought of what was that
3:17:37I would think that she she also has her
3:17:41own thing going
3:17:44her own business does she work for a
3:17:46living
3:17:48what I know of her is that uh
3:17:51I think he mentioned that she worked at
3:17:53No Frills but it wasn't I shouldn't work
3:17:55often
3:17:57like I think he mentioned that she
3:17:58doesn't have a job once
3:18:00but I know she worked for Northfield I
3:18:02don't know if she still does
3:18:05um which No Frills do you know
3:18:06unfortunately I'm not sure do you know
3:18:09what area of town or where she lives she
3:18:11lives at Midland and steals at Midland
3:18:14and Steals on the Markham or Scarborough
3:18:16side
3:18:17on on the Scarborough side on the
3:18:21Scarborough side and Christine you don't
3:18:22know her last name Felipe Felipe
3:18:26what's that what nationality is she
3:18:27Filipino Filipino
3:18:30um and how old is Christine
3:18:32I I only know she's older than me I'm
3:18:34not sure if she's his age or older I'm
3:18:37not sure did he ever see where he met
3:18:39her
3:18:39we all we all went to the same high
3:18:41school and they also uh
3:18:43yeah they all we all went to the same
3:18:45high school what school was that Mary
3:18:47Ward Mary Ward yes
3:18:52now
3:18:54how would you feel if
3:18:57you know like
3:18:59Daniel is the one who's
3:19:03through through whatever activity that
3:19:05he's engaged in and you've been around
3:19:06but not necessarily having an
3:19:08understanding because you're a scene
3:19:09with him that he's brought this back to
3:19:11you
3:19:21I don't know if that's in fact happened
3:19:23I'm trying to find a Rhyme or Reason for
3:19:25why your house was targeted
3:19:27I'm still trying to figure out how they
3:19:29got in your house
3:19:31like you didn't hear you didn't hear a
3:19:33doorbell you didn't hear a door knock
3:19:35you didn't
3:19:37you didn't door kicked in you didn't I
3:19:39was I said I was watching TV on the
3:19:41phone I I don't know how
3:19:44yeah I I know we went over that back and
3:19:46back and forth we don't know how
3:19:50so somehow they got into your house
3:19:54by getting through your mom
3:19:56down on the lower level right because
3:19:58she's the only one who's down there
3:20:01so
3:20:02it's very confusing
3:20:05um
3:20:06we do have surveillance cameras from the
3:20:09area right that explain that well
3:20:11hopefully but it's it's you know that's
3:20:13still a work in progress
3:20:16um
3:20:19but
3:20:20generally random events
3:20:25are not in most cases random there's a
3:20:28Rhyme or Reason Why they've come to your
3:20:29house
3:20:31but from what you've told me inside the
3:20:33house the only thing that you hear them
3:20:34saying to you is they're looking for
3:20:36money
3:20:37they're not looking for a specific
3:20:39quantity of money no
3:20:41do you ever hear number one telling
3:20:43number three about the quantity of money
3:20:45that he's recovered no
3:20:54all the comment you hear from number one
3:20:56really is is it's time to go we've been
3:20:59here too long we've been here too long
3:21:00yes
3:21:02number three was the one that says
3:21:04was my father and all I could what I
3:21:06heard from him was basically where's
3:21:07more you're lying
3:21:15so you're telling me that you you had no
3:21:18involvement in what happened
3:21:21meaning not saying how the outcome came
3:21:23but you you had no involvement in in any
3:21:26type of illegal activity that would have
3:21:27drawn you or the attention of you to
3:21:30have bad people come to your house
3:21:32looking for large sums of money
3:21:36you're not involved in this Any Which
3:21:38Way
3:21:39because
3:21:41the question obviously stands Jennifer
3:21:43is
3:21:45you're upstairs and they're downstairs
3:21:49right
3:21:51so it's a natural concern
3:21:55when why would they leave you alone
3:21:58why would they not do the same to you
3:22:07you can't answer that question
3:22:11he said
3:22:15but I asked him to take me the number
3:22:17one guy the number one guy said you're
3:22:19cooperated
3:22:21okay
3:22:24there's no you had no threats and again
3:22:27we're back to the fact that you
3:22:28admittedly lied okay not to me right not
3:22:32to me no you admittedly lied
3:22:35you've lied to your parents
3:22:38right about going to school
3:22:41you've lied
3:22:42to to Danny about being Daniel about
3:22:45being raped and about receiving a bullet
3:22:49who's to say this whole thing isn't a
3:22:51lie
3:22:53that what you're telling me is a lie
3:22:55because if you are lying it's the most
3:22:57cold-blooded thing that I have ever
3:22:59faced in my life
3:23:16there is nothing that you've said to me
3:23:18today is a lie
3:23:21and I want to they want to just put a
3:23:24little Preamble not nothing in here that
3:23:27you might have mistaken because of order
3:23:30of events I'm saying to you right now
3:23:34is there anything throughout the course
3:23:35of your statement today
3:23:38or you've lied to me
3:23:44from your interaction with Danny Daniel
3:23:48from your
3:23:49I'm not involved in drugs and I don't
3:23:51have anything to do with them and we
3:23:52don't have large sums of money
3:23:55what about life insurance policies do
3:23:57your parents have life insurance
3:23:57policies
3:24:02I I think I I don't know I know they had
3:24:05a
3:24:06they had a
3:24:10I I have one of myself yes and uh
3:24:15my mom they used to have one for me when
3:24:18I was younger
3:24:19but uh half of that went to education
3:24:21half went to
3:24:24uh life insurance and when they found
3:24:27out I
3:24:29I didn't go to university they
3:24:32they asked for the money back so hang on
3:24:34a second here
3:24:36you told to me that you told me that
3:24:37they never knew you didn't go to
3:24:39university when did they find out that
3:24:41you didn't go to university
3:24:43I told them that I graduated but I never
3:24:46went to University
3:24:48that I went for two years but I never
3:24:50finished okay
3:24:53they wanted the money back as a result
3:24:54of that
3:24:55yeah so you did actually tell your
3:24:57parents somewhat of the tree that you
3:24:58never went to University or but it's
3:25:00it's half truths
3:25:04so
3:25:05back to this line is
3:25:08um
3:25:09where we're talking about the fact that
3:25:11of the lying right is that it's I don't
3:25:14deal with the drugs I don't
3:25:16associate with that
3:25:19okay I honestly I don't
3:25:22now
3:25:24back to another very difficult question
3:25:26but if I don't ask it I'm going to be
3:25:28it's an obvious one the resentment that
3:25:31you had that you may have had towards
3:25:34your parents for the interference in
3:25:36your relationship and your life and
3:25:37essentially locking you down in your
3:25:39house
3:25:42at the end of the day I love my parents
3:25:44and I chose to be with them
3:25:48and if I wanted to I could have just
3:25:51left but I didn't I wanted to stay with
3:25:53them and take care of them
3:25:57so this wasn't some evil plot that you
3:25:59thought up to oh my God no
3:26:04no interaction no belief no you didn't
3:26:06have anything to do with this thing at
3:26:08all whatsoever
3:26:09you don't engage in a legal activity no
3:26:14because you know that it'll be very easy
3:26:15it will be a very easy thing to
3:26:17discredit you on right we're in the
3:26:19process of trying to add credibility to
3:26:21what you tell us and that's through the
3:26:23process of asking people and doing
3:26:24whatever through that same process it
3:26:27will be very easy to find the flaws in
3:26:29what you've said which again then turns
3:26:31the focus back to you
3:26:34okay it's a natural progress It's a
3:26:37natural thing that investigators do we
3:26:39eliminate people
3:26:40or we draw our attention to them it's a
3:26:43natural thing it's if it's not brain
3:26:45surgery
3:26:47okay
3:26:50what did you talk to Michelle about
3:26:53did you talk to Michelle last night
3:26:56or the day before
3:26:57that you were coming that boat talking
3:26:59to the police
3:27:01I just asked her how she was feeling
3:27:03because she was nervous
3:27:04what did you tell her just tell the
3:27:07truth tell you what you know
3:27:10and the threats that you you say that
3:27:12you've received the threats that you've
3:27:14talked about are the same threats that
3:27:16you're mentioning from the text
3:27:17messaging
3:27:19they're not really you did you receive
3:27:21any life threatening or are they
3:27:22basically just stay away from just the
3:27:25email saying the the messages saying
3:27:27stay away
3:27:29from Danny yes
3:27:31okay I heard a knock on the door get
3:27:32beer with me
3:28:49foreign
3:29:53okay
3:34:13foreign
3:34:50anyone come in
3:36:30foreign
3:36:52foreign
3:37:25thank you
3:38:25I'm just up here okay be right back
3:38:28you're just up there
3:39:26[Music]
3:40:57foreign
3:43:45okay work
3:43:49we're done essentially
3:43:52how are you feeling
3:43:56did I what I scare you about sit down
3:43:58sit down and take a load off tell me how
3:44:00tell me how you're feeling and how I
3:44:02scared you
3:44:05I don't want you walking away from here
3:44:07thinking I'm evil I want you to walking
3:44:08around from here thinking that
3:44:10this guy is helping investigate my mom's
3:44:13murder and he's going to turn over every
3:44:15stone possible to make sure that we
3:44:16catch the people who do that that's what
3:44:18I want you feeling so I don't want you
3:44:19walking away from here thinking that I'm
3:44:21I'm I scared you or I'm I'm a bad man
3:44:24sometimes we have to ask very very
3:44:26difficult questions but it's my job
3:44:29okay
3:44:31and you would expect that from me
3:44:34and it's not you're not the only person
3:44:36that we're asking this stuff of
3:44:39but you're the almost obvious person
3:44:41that where you have to ask this stuff to
3:44:46and
3:44:47there's it's just it's just the way we
3:44:50operate it's the way we have to operate
3:44:51it's a tough job to deal with someone's
3:44:54murder and there's some very bad people
3:44:57and there's some very tough questions
3:44:58that need to be asked
3:45:00so you have to I hope you understand
3:45:02that
3:45:13have you lied to me
3:45:16no
3:45:17you haven't lied to me about anything
3:45:20I said whatever I could to help okay
3:45:23so if you've always told the truth the
3:45:26truth will never hurt you it may get you
3:45:27into a bit of trouble right the truth
3:45:30can get you into trouble if you've done
3:45:31but some things wrong
3:45:33but generally in most cases if you tell
3:45:35the truth
3:45:37you'll always be fine
3:45:41so that's that's the Avenue that that's
3:45:45the Avenue you have to think about and
3:45:46what you I can always I never do
3:45:48anything wrong if I tell the truth and
3:45:50if I've made if I've said some things
3:45:51that are lies or
3:45:53I've held something back because I think
3:45:55it might hurt me those are the things
3:45:57that will cause people
3:46:00to look at you
3:46:01more intently because the question is is
3:46:04why would that person do that to me
3:46:05they've got something to hide right
3:46:08so
3:46:12you know the fact that you've lied to
3:46:14your parents over a long period of time
3:46:15the fact that you've lied about to
3:46:17Daniel about those other two events
3:46:20you know those are disturbing
3:46:23right but I don't live in your shoes and
3:46:26I would never judge you on that fact but
3:46:28from an outsider looking in to have to
3:46:31live under those conditions
3:46:32to have to lie continually
3:46:37you're going to ask the question why
3:46:46and if that's the way that you have to
3:46:48live that's the way you have to live
3:46:51but people will judge you on your life
3:46:54right
3:47:01so is there anything else that you think
3:47:03that you can think of
3:47:05that might help us
3:47:26there was this one person who
3:47:30added me on Facebook
3:47:37and
3:47:38and I found it weird that he had added
3:47:41me out of nowhere
3:47:44and I had looked in common friends and
3:47:47saw that he was friends with this girl
3:47:49that girl Christine
3:47:51when I spoke to Daniel about it I don't
3:47:53know if he told her or not
3:47:56but I asked him like
3:47:58is she just casual friends with him or
3:48:01is he she good friends with him
3:48:05and the day after
3:48:08I asked him this they were no longer
3:48:10friends on Facebook
3:48:12who is this guy what did he look like
3:48:14Casey law I've never met him apparently
3:48:17went to high school as well but I don't
3:48:20recall ever meeting him
3:48:25and he kept asking me questions that
3:48:29I don't know if it's just his
3:48:30personality but he asked me questions as
3:48:32that were
3:48:34too abrupt to ask someone you just met
3:48:38like what give me an example
3:48:41he asked
3:48:44if I had a boyfriend and if I was
3:48:47looking for a boyfriend and if I engaged
3:48:50in Sex and
3:48:52things like that
3:48:54so that's the kind of question he was
3:48:56you know
3:48:57provoking you
3:49:01Casey law
3:49:02and did you recognize the name from
3:49:04school
3:49:06recognizable but again I don't remember
3:49:08ever even having a conversation with him
3:49:11and so he said he went to your school
3:49:13yeah but he was older than me he's older
3:49:16than you
3:49:18and what what does he look like
3:49:22Chinese guy yeah
3:49:24when I when I talked to him he said that
3:49:27he was working like security
3:49:32okay
3:49:34so that's that's on on things that
3:49:36strange things that have happened to you
3:49:38recently that's
3:49:40that's it that you can think of is that
3:49:41that one and plus obviously the
3:49:44the stuff that was going on with
3:49:46Christine and then because the ghost
3:49:47messages that you were receiving right
3:49:50from from
3:49:52these were numbers that didn't exist or
3:49:54they didn't have anything no it was
3:49:55blocked blocked numbers
3:49:57and when I called Rogers they said
3:49:58that's not possible
3:50:01for a text message to come in with a
3:50:03blocked number yes
3:50:06okay
3:50:15so
3:50:16um you know that whatever everything
3:50:18you've told us has been under oath yeah
3:50:22you know that
3:50:23part of it our job is is to go back and
3:50:28look at what you've told us to try and
3:50:30match up to the reality of what we have
3:50:33evidence that we have right
3:50:36you said you're where you you said
3:50:39essentially
3:50:41nothing you didn't really change much
3:50:43from your first statement to your second
3:50:44statement right you've uh you've
3:50:46explained more we've we've covered off
3:50:48more
3:50:51but is there anything in this course of
3:50:53these uh that you think you want to
3:50:55change
3:51:03you made me like now I feel like I've
3:51:05said something wrong you have not I
3:51:07don't know if you said you have to me no
3:51:09no I've said everything that I know
3:51:10that's true and I'm asking you is it
3:51:13from reflecting on what you've told me
3:51:14today
3:51:16which is fairly consistent with the
3:51:18first statement it's just there's more
3:51:19detail now
3:51:21is there anything in there from what
3:51:22you've been going down and what you
3:51:24think it should be right on the tip of
3:51:26your tongue if you want to change
3:51:27something it would be like
3:51:30you know what I I said this and I I
3:51:32really meant this it's not something
3:51:34you've missed it's something that you
3:51:36knowingly have said that you want to
3:51:37change that you know was wrong
3:51:40or could be taken wrong
3:51:42okay well well first thing the school
3:51:44thing yes I didn't go to university but
3:51:48I told my parents that I went for a few
3:51:50years
3:51:51right how long ago how long did you tell
3:51:53him that how long ago did they find out
3:51:56I told them everything when I was going
3:51:58I was seeing Daniel and that I only I
3:52:02told them I only went partial school
3:52:04okay and I told them all and when was
3:52:06that what year was that when how long a
3:52:08year and a half ago so is this when the
3:52:10ultimatum come down is after is that at
3:52:12that point the ultimatum came about it
3:52:16there's always been ultimatums like they
3:52:20always gave me a second but the one that
3:52:21you made the choice where you were at
3:52:22because you say that was about a year
3:52:24and a half ago too is that part of when
3:52:26you came clean
3:52:28to a certain extent you say you came
3:52:30clean come and clean would be Mom and
3:52:32Dad I know I didn't clean but I came
3:52:33like
3:52:35when I when I said
3:52:38when I said what they know
3:52:42and that was a year and a half ago yes
3:52:44okay so there's one that you've we've
3:52:47clarified is there anything else that
3:52:48you can think of
3:52:54is there anything that
3:52:58like I everything I said is what I said
3:53:02that's all I know yeah and we feel like
3:53:05you're looking at me to for me to try
3:53:07and tell you what I think you've said
3:53:08was wrong
3:53:09I don't know I I'm telling you that I'm
3:53:13um I I've
3:53:15heard everything that you've had to say
3:53:18I don't have this uh
3:53:20miraculous TV ability that says I can
3:53:23pull out a chunk of this and say to you
3:53:25that portion's wrong I can tell you from
3:53:28what you told us we're going to compare
3:53:30it with all the evidence we have and see
3:53:33how consistent it is
3:53:35there's no way you're expected to be a
3:53:36hundred percent it's impossible
3:53:39okay eyewitnesses for every event we
3:53:42know are have don't have the ability to
3:53:45recall everything
3:53:46so that's why we ask you due to the best
3:53:48of your ability
3:53:51my concern lies in the fact of your
3:53:54lying
3:53:55okay you've come clean you've never lied
3:53:59to me before right
3:54:01I've never met you to be a liar but the
3:54:03fact is is that you've lied about
3:54:06stuff to Daniel
3:54:07you've lied to your parents
3:54:10so
3:54:12could you be lying to me
3:54:15I can't
3:54:16why couldn't you be lying because you're
3:54:18scaring me
3:54:19doesn't mean that you couldn't be lying
3:54:21to me
3:54:22right
3:54:23I don't know you I've known you now for
3:54:25probably five hours intermittent
3:54:29I hope you're not lying to me right
3:54:31that's all I can hope for
3:54:34but the fact of the matter is is that
3:54:36those three things are sitting there
3:54:38saying you know like you have the
3:54:40ability to trick your parents for a long
3:54:42period of time
3:54:48very explainable and I also weren't lit
3:54:50I wasn't living and where you are
3:54:52right and I'm so I'm not going to
3:54:54prejudge you because I
3:54:55people do what they need to do to
3:54:57survive
3:54:58so it could very easily be justified as
3:55:00a survival mechanism this is the best
3:55:02Avenue that you saw it and you were
3:55:03stuck in it
3:55:05okay but the fact is is that my job is
3:55:08is trying to get the root of a of a
3:55:11severely serious crime and I have to
3:55:13explore every Avenue that we possibly
3:55:15can
3:55:16so I'm going to do everything in my
3:55:18power to either prove us as our police
3:55:21agency prove or disprove what you've
3:55:23told us
3:55:24the more we prove
3:55:27or can cooperate the more credibility
3:55:29you you have as as a witness okay
3:55:33that's going to happen
3:55:35we may even ask you to come back again
3:55:39it will be not for you will not be
3:55:42explaining what happened
3:55:45in a grand scheme of things because
3:55:46you've done that up and down and
3:55:48backwards it may be for points of
3:55:50clarification
3:55:51okay because again we're speaking to
3:55:52we're going to be going and likely
3:55:54speaking to some of your friends and
3:55:56your relatives and it's just points of
3:55:59clarification may not happen it may you
3:56:02know I'm only saying that it may I told
3:56:04you I didn't want to do the five and six
3:56:06and seven interviews with you well after
3:56:08today that's not going to happen but we
3:56:11may be contacting you to help us for
3:56:14some other points that we come across
3:56:16okay again it goes back to your
3:56:17credibility but I don't no one's going
3:56:19to sit you down and crank you through
3:56:23the events
3:56:25unless you were involved in it
3:56:28right and then I can't then all all
3:56:30promises are all everything comes off
3:56:33if you had some involvement in this then
3:56:37I'm just saying all the all the rules if
3:56:39you didn't have anything to do with this
3:56:43and you're telling me the truth
3:56:46then we may be calling you to add is
3:56:48this true what this person's saying that
3:56:50this way and we may be asking you points
3:56:53like that okay you
3:56:55you're our only link
3:56:58you're it until your dad regains he is
3:57:01back and being able to be be spoken to
3:57:03right now you're our only linked to this
3:57:06case
3:57:07so where we may rely on you heavily on
3:57:09until we can speak to your father
3:57:13okay
3:57:14so don't be afraid if you've told the
3:57:16truth the last thing you should be
3:57:18afraid of is is anything if you told the
3:57:20truth and you've been truthful through
3:57:21this whole process
3:57:23then you're helping
3:57:25you're doing your part
3:57:27okay and don't be afraid of me
3:57:30I'm just afraid because
3:57:32you know
3:57:33like I know everything is just all
3:57:36pointing
3:57:37negatively right now and I I don't
3:57:39understand why it's not all pointing
3:57:41negative and you know what you're you're
3:57:42so you're misunderstanding things that
3:57:44you're thinking it's all negatively
3:57:46pointing anywhere it's not pointing
3:57:48anywhere right now we are still
3:57:49Gathering and Gathering and Gathering
3:57:52there is no direction that we're there's
3:57:54nothing
3:57:55you are not a suspect in this in this
3:57:58investigation
3:57:59okay you're a witness and a victim of a
3:58:02crime I know but I'm just
3:58:05I'm just I feel that like the way you're
3:58:08you're speaking to me it's kind of like
3:58:10I know you said that you had to say
3:58:12those things but it's yeah it's here and
3:58:16I've already said it to the special
3:58:19victims yesterday but there's like ideas
3:58:22in my head yeah
3:58:23and I'm afraid to say it out loud
3:58:26but
3:58:28ideas about speculation of what happened
3:58:30how it happened ideas of why
3:58:34why wasn't I there
3:58:39it it's you
3:58:41you that psychologically is an issue
3:58:45that you need to straighten out with
3:58:47counseling okay
3:58:49for you to speculate into the
3:58:51investigation as to why you weren't
3:58:52there unless unless it's standing out I
3:58:56believe you said in your opinion was is
3:58:58that they said I cooperated cooperated
3:59:00right
3:59:02and in uh in a case that makes no sense
3:59:05that could be the only sense that we get
3:59:07out of the investigation is that strange
3:59:09things happen
3:59:11right strange things happen
3:59:14so
3:59:15yeah unfortunately uh at times some of
3:59:19us have to point the finger seem like
3:59:21we're pointing the finger and it really
3:59:22is just to provoke you to see what
3:59:24you're going to do how you're going to
3:59:25respond
3:59:26Okay so
3:59:30it's only a question and it it's been
3:59:32answered and if you've been truthful
3:59:34okay you have nothing to fear absolutely
3:59:38nothing
3:59:39okay
3:59:43what do you want to say
3:59:47that I got a phone call once and like I
3:59:49said earlier I don't know if
3:59:52you it it was like zoned in but they
3:59:56contacted they said that they could make
3:59:57everything disappear and that's what I'm
3:59:59afraid of
4:00:01because you're asking me all these
4:00:02questions and I'm answering them
4:00:04truthfully but I'm afraid that
4:00:07well I can't answer them for you well
4:00:10there's some you know not your the
4:00:12technology exists you know
4:00:14um there is some technology out there
4:00:16I'm sure that can make things disappear
4:00:18and I know that not everything is
4:00:19captured
4:00:20so you know we go back to interviewing
4:00:23someone else who may say yeah well she
4:00:25told me about this and uh or I had
4:00:28similar things so there's other ways
4:00:30around it it's not this case isn't going
4:00:32to hinge on small inconsistencies right
4:00:36it's not going to hinge on something
4:00:37it's not the inconsistency it's I'm
4:00:39afraid of what
4:00:41is out there
4:00:43because you you shine a light that it
4:00:45could have been because of
4:00:46what he's involved in
4:00:49and if is it not a possibility
4:00:52I know like you have given me that and
4:00:55with that I'm just like I'm scared
4:00:56because
4:00:59it could be anybody out there right now
4:01:02it could be anyone
4:01:03and that's the reality of it right we
4:01:07don't we're the theories we're we're at
4:01:10the same position to you is speculating
4:01:11as to theories and and reasons why and
4:01:15um
4:01:15you can't be confined in your theories
4:01:17because you know if you're sitting here
4:01:18looking like this
4:01:20you know at a small with the blinders on
4:01:22that this is
4:01:23it's like this
4:01:25we got to think at every possible way
4:01:27that it could that this crime could have
4:01:28been happening and you know saying that
4:01:30it could have been Daniel yeah it could
4:01:33have been dead it could have been in a
4:01:34random act yeah it could have been a
4:01:36random could they have been targeted
4:01:37because of something that yeah it could
4:01:39have been
4:01:40we've got to explore them all
4:01:42and then try and figure out which one
4:01:45through motive and opportunity it means
4:01:47was likely to have occurred
4:01:49and hopefully we start to focus down on
4:01:51suspects
4:01:54but right now there's no fingers being
4:01:56directed at anyone
4:01:58it's just I feel
4:02:01that's what you're meant to feel
4:02:05that's what you're meant to feel
4:02:09but there's nothing right now other than
4:02:10what you told me about the changing
4:02:12where you fix it at the end about you I
4:02:14just wanted to clarify that yeah so is
4:02:16there anything else
4:02:18not off the top of my head
4:02:31so we're back to this last question that
4:02:33uh comes back to is is there anything
4:02:35else I should note of uh to understand
4:02:37your statement fully and that's again is
4:02:39that this is where you'll drop in that I
4:02:41took five hits fasted before I you're
4:02:44not on drugs you're not uh taking like
4:02:46or you're not taking any medication
4:02:48you're
4:02:49you
4:02:51voluntarily gave this statement and you
4:02:54did it
4:02:56having a full understand of what you've
4:02:57told me yes yes
4:03:10okay so the recorders are being shut off
4:03:13as we speak

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