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Jennifer Pan Full Interrogation - Part 3 — Transcript

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0:00okay so right now we're in uh a separate
0:04video room across the hall from the
0:06first one by my computer now it's
0:10252 um the officer advised me the
0:13detective cook that we're having a
0:15problem with the other room the video
0:16and audio went
0:18down uh but everything what we talked
0:20about has been um audio taped uh on our
0:24portable audio okay all right now um
0:30just for a recap um we reviewed why that
0:35you're here today
0:36discuss um the home invasion that
0:39occurred at your Residence at 238 Helen
0:41Avenue on the uh 8th of November okay
0:46and that um in that incident um your
0:50mother was killed and your
0:52father uh was um shot uh but survived
0:58right and we reviewed um what your
1:02rights are here today that you didn't
1:04have to speak to the police um that
1:07anything that you do say to the police
1:09here today could be evidence is that
1:11correct yes you just have to speak a
1:13little louder yes okay and um that if
1:18you had any involvement um uh well first
1:22of all if you provided a false statement
1:25um or lied to the police uh a person
1:28could be charged or you could be chared
1:29charge for um obstruct police uh public
1:34Mischief or fabricating evidence you
1:37understand that yes and that if you had
1:40any involvement um uh in that home
1:44invasion then you could be facing
1:46charges of murder and attempted murder
1:50okay do you understand that okay and um
1:54anything that you do say to us in
1:56regards to that home invasion uh is
1:59being recorded here and that could be
2:01used as evidence in court okay you
2:03understood that and that you don't have
2:06to say anything to us and in relation to
2:08this case but whatever you do say may be
2:10given as
2:11evidence right you understood that yes
2:15okay and lastly that um we've never met
2:20before so I don't want anything any
2:22other officer said to you to influence
2:24you or make you feel like you have to
2:26say anything to me here today and
2:27whatever you've said previously you
2:30don't have to repeat that nor do you
2:31have to say anything further but
2:33whatever you do say that may be given as
2:36evidence is that correct yes yes
2:41okay all right so we were just starting
2:43to talk about yourself and um you were
2:47telling me that you do or have had a
2:49passion for the piano and uh you do like
2:52figer skating okay what are some of your
2:54other likes what other things you like
2:57to
2:58do and watch TV with my friends yep okay
3:03and who are your specific TV buddies
3:05Adrian okay and his last name okay and
3:10anyone
3:14else I talked on the phone that's I
3:17watched okay now do you have a
3:21particular best friend right
3:24now who would you say is your best
3:26friend best friend know NE what that
3:30know who that you get along with that
3:32you have a special relationship with
3:34like a best friend who's the friend that
3:36you like the most or that you get along
3:38with the
3:40best Daniel Daniel okay and what's his
3:43last name okay and uh why do you say
3:47that you're best friends I want say best
3:50friends but he's able to comfort me and
3:53call me okay and how does he do
3:57that we've been friends for a long time
3:59time
4:01and I don't know it's just we used to
4:05date and just part of me so get
4:11Cal yeah okay so you have
4:14history okay and I know you've said some
4:17of these things to the police before but
4:19I just want to go over it for my own
4:20understanding so when did you first date
4:26Daniel okay and how did you actually
4:28meet we went to school together okay and
4:32what school did you go to
4:33maryward and uh is that a Catholic
4:36School yes yeah okay and when did you
4:39start going to merrywood 2000
4:44okay so you started great nine there yes
4:47okay and in elementary school where did
4:49you go St Barnabas what's that St
4:51Barnabas Barnabas okay um and do you
4:55practice um Catholicism or do you
4:58practice a different are you are you
5:00Catholic uh I do practice catholism but
5:04uh I do believe in some Buddhist beliefs
5:07yeah okay that's good okay so you have
5:10uh um Christian beliefs uh that are both
5:13Catholic and Buddhist uh religions okay
5:18um and how long uh were you baptized
5:21when you were born or okay and were your
5:24parents Catholics son my father okay
5:27your father okay and what about your
5:30mama okay so that's where you get the
5:32the combination okay and um
5:58yep
6:01okay um and growing up did you guys go
6:05to church every Sunday or how did that
6:08go not every Sunday but we went for
6:11holidays and special occasions okay and
6:14you also had religion in school I guess
6:18okay and um did they go to uh church at
6:23school or not in elementary school I had
6:26a church next to my yes okay I had the
6:29same thing so that's why I'm
6:31asking okay and basically we went every
6:33Friday
6:34morning uh to church uh because we're
6:37right beside it right so um they had a
6:39special service for us okay
6:46now what else can you tell me about
6:49growing
6:52up schedule
6:55okay and um tell me about that schedule
7:00just School eight
7:02panel a little swimming a little Cy for
7:05a couple years it was a steady steady
7:09schedule okay and how did you get into
7:13skating to be honest I think my pen just
7:15applied okay and I just took and how old
7:18were you when you
7:22started or eight okay so young and how
7:26long did you stay in
7:28it
7:3016 okay so quite a long time okay and
7:35what made you stop going I told my a lot
7:38okay so injuries okay if you didn't get
7:42injured would you still be doing it I
7:44hope yeah okay so that's nice and did
7:47you as far as that did you do uh like
7:51competition skating
7:53or and how did you do with
7:56that I wasn't at the top of the pack but
7:59with the middle as yeah so that's good
8:01though but you did actually enjoy it it
8:04was more than just going for uh
8:06competition you enjoyed actually I I I
8:09was petrified of the competion okay all
8:13right um and where would be the farthest
8:17place you would go for a
8:20competition like would you go outside of
8:22this
8:23area cuz I actually started I said Scaro
8:26Toronto that's where I trained and grew
8:28up yeah
8:29it wasn't until later that I moved up to
8:31Richmond Hill just the last year or two
8:34right um but we went everywhere
8:37from Orange yeaha just in around sou
8:42Ontario yeah
8:46okay and tell me about the piano when
8:48did you start with piano when I wow okay
8:53and you're still doing it I understand
8:55okay and I hear you actually
8:58teach i t of it and I'm still working
9:01towards that final qualification okay
9:04and what what do you have to do to uh
9:06get that final qualification I have
9:08believe three exams okay and are the
9:12exams practical or are they practical
9:14and practical wa practical and written
9:17written Okay and like an exam how long
9:21would that take to
9:22write writing exams about two to three
9:25hours okay and are you in that process
9:28right now or
9:29I would yeah okay and so when do you
9:34hope to complete that I was hoping in
9:36June June by June you
9:39would yeah
9:41okay and um so you went from uh a
9:47student and now to a teacher is what uh
9:51okay and um although you don't have your
9:56highest papers you were still able to
9:58teach students
10:00yeah okay what does the actual full
10:03papers give you what will you be able to
10:04do with that it's just a formality uh an
10:08achievement yes okay
10:11credentials okay uh can you charge more
10:15I don't
10:16know okay when you've been uh teaching
10:20um what would you charge for
10:24lessons mainly they were just family
10:26friends so it's just10
10:30yeah okay and how many students would
10:32have you been teaching for the years of
10:35three okay over what time
10:40period four years four years okay all
10:43right um and do you have any students
10:47right now or no okay and why not uh the
10:51students I were teaching they went to
10:54high school and lost okay yeah too big
10:57for
10:58panel yeah I took it in grade school too
11:01but uh I I think I got I went to grade
11:04seven in it I think like in when I was
11:06in grade seven I stopped taking it but
11:09uh I still remember swans on the lake I
11:12know how to play that that's about
11:15it um
11:18now I understand what kind of jobs have
11:21you had um serving jobs serving jobs
11:25okay and when was your last one OST
11:31uh okay and when's the last time you
11:34worked
11:37there two year two years ago I year and
11:42a half okay and was that your last uh
11:45serving job okay and previous to that he
11:50said marri okay and what time period did
11:53you work
11:57there
12:06I don't remember
12:08exactly um
12:11200 maybe okay and how
12:16long three or four years okay you spent
12:19three or four years here okay why did
12:21you switch from um East Side to Boston
12:24Pizza um when I went over to Boston I
12:27did I did both for a little bit okay
12:29yeah and I found that of people was
12:31easier and better okay better tips or it
12:36was easier cuz less unlimited stuff to
12:39run and okay more appreciative guests
12:42okay the experience was better for you
12:45okay and um but you haven't done that in
12:49about two years okay and any particular
12:53reason um just try to concentrate on
12:57piano and okay all right on your studies
13:01pardon me on your studies my panel
13:03studies yeah yeah okay and what is it
13:07that you're hoping you're going back to
13:08school what is your ultimate goal uh for
13:12school I want to finish this threeyear
13:15biotech course yeah and see how the
13:17field is after after 3 years cuz I know
13:19it's booming now but I'm not sure how
13:21it's going to be in 3 years okay and
13:23what would the number what job would you
13:26like to get from
13:27it
13:31like what are some of the jobs that you
13:32would get with the degree in
13:35that I haven't really looked much into
13:37it okay yeah all right all right
13:41um now if you could pick any job
13:46yourself not talking about anybody else
13:49but if you could pick for yourself what
13:52would it
13:54be I want to be a Pian teacher on like
13:58when I home
13:59but in the daytime I'd like to have a a
14:02simple maybe like a last technician job
14:04just
14:06work eight like eight hours a day and I
14:09come home and each P okay and so why
14:13don't you do
14:14that uh I actually did try to apply for
14:17uh pharmacy technician but I wasn't
14:19eligible to enter okay and any
14:22particular reason I probably just didn't
14:24have the qual the the needed credits for
14:26it okay and uh high school credits you
14:30mean
14:31or yeah okay um and have this other
14:35course you're on you've been accepted
14:37yeah okay
14:40um okay and from that I guess you could
14:43be a technician though uh I believe that
14:47if I get through the first year okay I
14:50will I will be eligible to transfer to
14:52the technician courses okay all right
14:54sounds good okay um now
15:00I understand that um you mentioned a
15:05schedule okay um whose decision have you
15:10on a schedule
15:12Who's well it was more along the lines
15:14of uh where I was at my skaing level
15:18yeah and what times were needed to be at
15:20certain places yeah oh okay so but
15:24basically you didn't have time for much
15:26other than School skating piano that's a
15:30lot yeah okay now um eventually you were
15:36discussing Daniel what's happened with
15:38that
15:40relationship I HIIT it from my parents
15:42at first they didn't agree with me
15:43having a boyfriend okay and uh once they
15:47found out they didn't like the fact that
15:50he was of mixed race okay and uh they
15:54told me to stop seeing him okay and how
15:58did that make you
16:07feel he was the person who just filled
16:11an empty void for me so that a part of
16:15me
16:17was
16:19um and when did you feel the part was
16:22missing me when you broke up you felt
16:25the part was missing is that what you're
16:26saying when when they first told me to
16:28stop seeing St talking him I just I felt
16:31like a part of me was missing and I fell
16:33into a little bit of depression okay and
16:35how old were you when this
16:39happened 20 2021 okay so you're 20 uh
16:44four now right when you're 21 they told
16:47you to stop seeing them or
16:492021 and how old were you when you first
16:52started
16:53dating 17 okay and from 177 to 2021 they
17:00didn't know about
17:01relationship okay how did they find
17:03out um one day when my mother came to
17:07pick me up uh she saw me with he had
17:09dropped me off okay dropped you off uh
17:13at Pacific Mall and my mother was coming
17:15to pick me up okay and somehow they saw
17:19each other I guess oh my mother saw me I
17:23hugging okay I gave it
17:25away okay and then when she asked about
17:29it what did you tell
17:30her I told her that you know we've been
17:33dating a little bit but M was just when
17:36we were in school we saw each other okay
17:39right and so was that the whole truth or
17:42not it was at that point of time okay
17:45what happened next then
17:47um I tried to bring him home my mother
17:51at first was place you know bring him
17:53home let us meet him when I brought him
17:56home
17:57um they didn't they automatically didn't
18:00like him for some reason okay that's
18:03when I told me to stop okay and what is
18:06it you you mentioned already that he was
18:09mixed race okay which is what Filipino
18:12and Chinese okay and your parents
18:15themselves what uh races are they
18:18vietnames and CH okay what was the
18:21problem with um Chinese and uh Filipino
18:27they didn't see him as a Chinese
18:28person okay him as a Filipino person
18:32okay and they Associated Filipino people
18:34with people okay so that was their
18:38personal belief or personal outlook on
18:41Filipinos I guess okay and okay so you
18:46were told to uh stop seeing him so what
18:51happened then at first I stopped for a
18:54while um but like I said I just felt
18:57really empty and I felt depression and
19:00okay I started talking him
19:02again okay and how would you get a
19:07chance to see him um seeing him was
19:11really difficult um I would try to see
19:13him before class here in there um not
19:16much time
19:18but U sometimes I'd ask a friend of mine
19:21Gary who's a mutual friend of ours he'd
19:24come and tell my par that he h me up for
19:26dinner and the three of us go up to
19:28dinner together okay so he picked you up
19:31at the house gar and what Grace is he
19:34he's white he's a white guy okay and did
19:39they have a problem with white guys or
19:41no no they didn't have a problem with
19:44you going to dinner with uh gar no no
19:48and
19:50um they were just against this
19:53guy Daniel yeah okay now were they
19:58against you going out with
20:00friends a little bit Yeah okay but they
20:03let you go with Gary so well it was like
20:07I said they didn't say yes often but
20:10when they did all right so and then what
20:13would happen you would then Gary would
20:16take you to Daniel uh we would meet up
20:18at like our sushi place okay where was
20:21that uh sometimes we go to uh case to
20:25Japan and we tried sushi on seven months
20:28Sushi on 7 okay and where's that first
20:31place located um Woodbine and John
20:34Woodbine and John and where what about
20:36the other one um seven and K okay and um
20:41so you like sushi my friend Gary likes
20:44Sushi okay and how did you meet Gary
20:48here Daniel here Daniel okay um but he's
20:52become your friend as well yeah okay and
20:54when's the last time you would have
20:56spoke to him been while been
20:59while a good three four months 3 four
21:02months and um since you and Daniel broke
21:05up how often would you see
21:09Gary want to see him well he'd stop by
21:14my house sometimes if my mom was at work
21:17okay and how many times do you think
21:19Gary took you to see
21:22Daniel three or four times three or four
21:24times okay and when would the last time
21:27have been
21:36I believe okay and where's Gary actually
21:39live he's in ack a picking okay uh have
21:44you ever been to his place yes where
21:47about do he
21:48live I don't exactly know he drove in
21:53okay what does he
21:54drive he
21:57um
21:59the maybe two car with the dark cented
22:01Windows okay you know you don't know
22:03what kind of car I believe it's in
22:06Impala impal okay now how has Daniel
22:11taken it when your parents said that you
22:14couldn't see him anymore how did he take
22:19it he was hurt
22:22yeah
22:25um and how did you feel
22:30also H also hurt
22:32okay um
22:35now after high school what did you do
22:37for schooling I didn't um but I lied to
22:41my parents okay so tell me about that
22:43what happened there what was their
22:45impression and what were you doing in
22:47the meantime they thought that I was
22:50going to school at rson for first couple
22:53years and then I said I transferred to
22:55UT okay um but I was actually working in
22:59the daytime okay and where were you
23:02staying at the first two two three years
23:05I was staying I was coming back home
23:06every day um but my son all year I that
23:09it was difficult yeah and so I would
23:11stay at Daniel's okay so you actually
23:13lived together for a year well it was
23:16his parents place yeah okay um so where
23:19would you stay in that house then they
23:21had a spare bedroom okay um but one of
23:24his parents felt more comfortable they
23:26let me stay with him
23:28all right so you were you slept in the
23:29same room for a while yeah okay all
23:32right so is it fair to say that you had
23:34an intimate relationship yeah okay and
23:37of course your parents didn't know with
23:39that no okay and how long was the
23:43relationship intimate what you say
23:45you've been dating for seven years
23:47almost I guess at what point did it
23:49become
23:51intimate uh I'd say After High School
23:55sometime yeah okay um and his parents
23:59were I guess more liberal than your
24:01parents their his parents uh they love
24:04they they love me yeah okay and um they
24:09recognized that you loved each
24:11other and so they let you stay in the
24:13same uh you moved up to his room or how
24:16did that was next door okay there two
24:19rooms in the basement no and on the main
24:22Flor okay and where were the parents
24:24rooms across the way
24:26okay um I'm guessing that sometimes you
24:30sneak into each other's rooms before
24:33they let you do it no no you didn't I'm
24:36just thinking what young people would do
24:38okay um but all how long did you end up
24:41staying in the same room before you
24:43mooved back
24:46home two three two years yeah okay so
24:50you lived there for two years
24:52then like I still came home every
24:55weekend and stuff yeah okay but they
24:57thought and they thought you were where
24:59on campus at a friend place okay all and
25:03if they phoned you they would just call
25:05your I called them every morning okay
25:07you cut it off okay
25:12um how what ended up how did they find
25:15out you weren't going to
25:19school they asked for records and at
25:22first I wasn't able to and then um after
25:26I said i' had finished
25:29um I didn't feel that I needed I could I
25:32didn't feel that I I told them I didn't
25:35want to do the pharmacy like far
25:37pharmacist I want to be a technician I
25:40I'm responsible to pharmacist so much
25:43yeah um I told them that I wasn't really
25:46into it and um because I hadn't gone to
25:50school for it but I had lied about it I
25:52didn't want to go and pursue like
25:55applying for the job when I didn't the
25:58qualifications okay um and they thought
26:00you did have the qualifications yeah
26:02okay and how did you try to prove to
26:05them that you did have the
26:06qualifications I bought online um I got
26:10a friend of mine to buy online a uh F
26:14diploma okay and who what friend was
26:17that Daniel who that Daniel oh Daniel
26:20okay what it cost to buy a fake
26:24uh 500 or something wow okay
26:28and um what happened when you gave them
26:31that then they stopped counting me for a
26:33bit until they realized I wasn't
26:36actually I I wasn't pursuing looking for
26:38the job hard enough they wondering what
26:40was going on okay then what was the next
26:43step what ended up how did you end up
26:46back home I guess uh
26:50they called up my friend who I said that
26:53I was staying with in the middle of the
26:55night and uh
26:58she groggy and forgot what day it was
27:03and so she's like isn't she home and I
27:04wasn't home and okay she messed up I
27:09don't blame her a bit no okay and what
27:12was that friend's name topaz topaz okay
27:15so she was your cover okay and she uh
27:19basically uh got caught because they
27:22called in like okay and so then what did
27:26how did they approach on that they
27:28called me and they told me to come home
27:30immediately right now okay and what
27:33happened um that's when I like that's it
27:37like we're staying home when we going
27:40out
27:42and we out get your life back on track
27:45okay and what did you say to that
27:49plan that I I was still create uh doing
27:54my Chanel career and I didn't feel that
27:59like I felt that my chan career could
28:02take me and then
28:06um I didn't I didn't understand really
28:09okay so you expressed your
28:12opinion uh but they wanted more they
28:15said that they wanted an education okay
28:17and a degree okay and so ultimately a
28:23plan was set up I guess and what was
28:26that plan
28:28to go back to school okay this January
28:31uh actually was supposed to be for
28:32September yeah but uh they were it was
28:35too late to apply okay so I I reapplied
28:40for January and AUST okay now when did
28:44this actually happen that they found out
28:47every or that that they brought you home
28:50about year and a half AG okay and
28:53so um what's been happening in the last
28:56year and a half though
28:58like you finally got into school now I
29:00understand what's been happening for the
29:03last 18 months just a lot of Chanel like
29:05catching up on my theories and stuff I
29:07I've been focking a little and
29:12uh it's pretty much piano and then I
29:15also did a little summer school to get
29:17my high school calc so I could apply it
29:20because I know calculus is a big thing
29:21in uh applying for college and
29:24universities now so I did do that one
29:26summer as well okay and how what your
29:28mass feels
29:30like they were pretty good but they've
29:32gotten a Ry over the years yeah
29:35okay um yeah you're not 18 or 19 anyone
29:39and you haven't done it in a few
29:41years uh so do you just uh is it home
29:43studies or is it internet studies I did
29:46it at the summer school okay you did it
29:48but are you doing any correspondence uh
29:51no no okay and so what was the when they
29:55said this is what's going to happen What
29:57all the rules that got put in place to
29:59make sure it happens that I wouldn't see
30:01Daniel or talk to Daniel anymore okay
30:03and that I
30:07like i' like my friends would have to
30:09come and over to the house rather than
30:11you go out okay
30:15um uh or if I went out with a friend
30:18they need to call and make sure okay and
30:22did you have a curfew or anything um
30:25they always said before that 9:00 us to
30:27be home
30:29okay and would they ever waiver on
30:32that uh just once I there was my
30:35friend's wedding reception yeah and how
30:38long did you get to stay with that just
30:4111 okay and how do you get to and from
30:46things when you want to go somewhere uh
30:48they drive me they drive you or the OD
30:50time if they know like the class that I
30:52always go to they'll let me take the car
30:54okay you do drive so
30:58um so how has that felt being under
31:01those guidelines for the last 18
31:05months it was okay like uh it wasn't the
31:09best feeling in the world cuz you know I
31:11just felt a little trapped okay but U
31:14it's what I chose to be with my family
31:17okay and so you made a choice between
31:20what um living out on my own with Daniel
31:24and staying home with my parents my back
31:27okay and did they say you could stay it
31:29on your own if you wanted
31:31to
31:33um at one point it was said but my dad
31:36also said that he'd uh hire a private
31:38investigator to follow me around okay he
31:41didn't like that
31:43option it's not bad it's just I I chose
31:46to be with my parents that wasn't even
31:48okay like he said it in argument but
31:51yeah I wasn't leaving okay did you feel
31:54you really had a choice or
31:56not there was no choice because family
31:58always comes first okay and where do you
32:02get that
32:04from where do you get that
32:08belief okay the family's number one
32:13yes
32:15um now you said you were
32:18depressed when were you
32:21depressed what time period did that
32:26start
32:30um I was depressed in elementary school
32:32for a little bit okay um the Depression
32:36started I'd
32:38say hard very about two years ago okay
32:44at the time of this or uh what what
32:47brought on the
32:52depression just I wasn't happy with any
32:55parts of my life okay which included
32:58what
33:01um I regretted not going to school okay
33:05um my piano wasn't going as fast as I I
33:08was
33:09liking
33:13um uh my friends were moving on with
33:16their life and it felt that I was wasn't
33:18going anywhere I was kind of being left
33:21behind Okay
33:25and
33:28that I didn't understand
33:32why that at 2021 that I had to be home
33:35at
33:369:00 I can see that okay and what how
33:42what was the worst the depression
33:45got I cut myself okay and when did that
33:51happen just I where did you do where did
33:56you cut uh on my wrist and once people
33:59started noticing I'd hide it other
34:01places but never twice my spot so how
34:04many Cuts do you have on you no none
34:07none they've healed okay and did you
34:12want to kill
34:15yourself yeah okay when's the first time
34:17that you actually thought you would try
34:19and kill
34:25yourself 19 at 19 what was going on at
34:30that time that brought it
34:33on my friends were in school when I was
34:35in
34:37um
34:41I came to the realization
34:44that
34:48like my family Dynamic is very
34:53broad so it's I just felt everything was
34:56crumbling around me and I wasn't able to
34:58hold anything else to myself okay and
35:01you really weren't able to tell your
35:03parents you weren't in
35:05school so it was tough living a double
35:08life type thing yeah but is that fair to
35:11say yeah yeah okay and
35:16um did you ever try to actually kill
35:19yourself I tried once and what did you
35:22do I tried to over on
35:25sleep okay and what happened
35:28I wasn't able to do it okay how many did
35:32you take four or five four or five okay
35:35and where did that
35:37happen where bedroom in your bedroom
35:40okay um I guess you just got
35:44tired you woke up the next
35:47day like I sto myself oh okay you you
35:50could have taken more but you didn't
35:52okay all right um when you were cutting
35:57um were you actually trying to kill
35:59yourself no no what were you trying to
36:01do control of one part of my life okay
36:04and what did that do for you when you
36:06actually
36:09cut I was able to feel physical plain so
36:11I didn't have to think of other pains in
36:13my life okay so it was a
36:16distractor okay did anybody know who you
36:18were cutting not at first okay who was
36:22the first to find
36:25out
36:32okay and what did he say he's like don't
36:35be stupid
36:37okay uh did your parents ever find out
36:41they noticed it but they
36:43never they don't I don't think they
36:45realize what it was yeah didn't okay um
36:49what's the lowest you ever
36:51got what was the lowest moment you've
36:54ever
36:55had
37:10just my brother had moved out and W
37:12going to school and I was home alone
37:15and in the middle of arguments and
37:18feeling very
37:19alone so he was kind of a bond while you
37:22were at
37:23home okay and so you guys got along all
37:28right as far as brother and sister go
37:31well we we we had our moment so I
37:33thought there's just an unsaid unsa Bond
37:36yeah which is nice okay uh but when you
37:40were on your own it was a lot
37:43tougher he didn't have that Ally in the
37:47house okay now when you said there was
37:49fighting what kind of fighting went on
37:51in the
37:55house bickering
37:57about what were the
37:59issues hous work hous work okay and who
38:03was
38:05bickering and who are they bickering at
38:07each other each other okay so there's
38:09some tension
38:10there
38:12okay um how would you characterize their
38:16relationship over the last couple
38:23years what do you mean by that how has
38:26it been in the house for them as a
38:33couple they put on a friend but there's
38:35not much of a relationship okay and what
38:40what do you think the problem is what's
38:41the issue what
38:48happened my mother took on a lot of
38:52responsibility doing everything paying
38:54the bills clean the house
38:59she was just set up for doing it by
39:01herself okay so she was depress too or
39:07not I I couldn't see
39:11okay
39:13um who's the boss of the host then what
39:16you
39:16say okay and so um what does that
39:25mean pretty much his opinion is
39:29B okay so he has the final say on and
39:33how did your mom take
39:38that
39:42she's um if you had a real problem could
39:47you ever go to either one of
39:50them okay and what would you and your
39:53mom
39:55discuss
39:57future
39:58PL
40:00okay and um did she agree with your
40:04father's plans or
40:06not
40:09sometimes okay ultimately they wanted
40:13you to be educated I guess was their is
40:15their goal okay um did you ever feel
40:19that they expected too much of
40:23you how
40:25so
40:35comparisons to other people okay so who
40:37would they compare you
40:39to like
40:42classmates Club
40:44mates cousins okay and so some of them
40:48have been successful
40:50recently okay and what did they say to
40:54you wish you could have been that person
40:57okay so that's pretty hard right hard to
40:59take for
41:01you what I've heard on my life okay
41:05nothing okay um
41:09now was there ever any um physical abuse
41:14in your
41:18household you had to think about that
41:20what did he well when I was when you're
41:22a kid you know just little tap on the
41:24bottom okay you got a spanking but
41:26that's it okay you were never
41:29um injured or and um your mom and dad
41:34weren't physical with each
41:36other do you did you ever see them be
41:38physical with each other no no okay
41:43um
41:46now do you
41:48feel um I get the feeling
41:52that
41:55um
41:57they think you could do any job there
42:01is is that true
42:04or I don't know I guess my question for
42:07you is did you ever feel like I know
42:10you're smart and they believe you're
42:13very smart but did you ever feel you
42:16weren't as smart as what they thought
42:18that that you were yeah okay I get that
42:20feeling that it's pretty tough to live
42:24up to their expectations okay like your
42:27dad ultimately would like to see you be
42:29like a doctor that type of thing and
42:33maybe uh you can't do
42:37it right I'm not saying you can't but I
42:40get the feeling that um those were
42:43pretty high standards for
42:46anybody not everybody can be a
42:49doctor okay and but they may have acted
42:53like you could have done it no problem
42:57is that
43:00fair like I don't want to say something
43:02that's not accurate but I just get the
43:03feeling that
43:05um their expectations were so high that
43:09few people would be able to reach that
43:11expectation I'm not just talking about
43:13you I'm talking about
43:15anybody um and it started at a young age
43:19it didn't start just when you went to
43:20University it's been an
43:23expectation uh that um
43:27uh since you were a child that you would
43:28be
43:29successful better than everybody
43:32else now
43:35um in that um when did your uh parents
43:41come to
43:43Canada I don't know the exact year okay
43:46but you were born here and your brother
43:49was born
43:50here and where did they actually meet
43:53you know how they got together they met
43:55back home
43:56but they they just knew of each other
43:59back home okay which back home means
44:01Vietnam okay and when uh and did they
44:06grow up in the same neighborhood or I
44:09same town or I guess town maybe yeah
44:13okay area all
44:16right
44:18okay okay
44:20So
44:22eventually
44:25um how did they um what else did you do
44:29to tr you were in
44:31school what kind of things would you do
44:33to try and make it look like you got
44:35your grades
44:37or when they asked for something I'd try
44:39to make a document for them okay so what
44:42type of documents did you um student one
44:46okay report cards okay and how did you
44:49do them using a Photoshop Photoshop okay
44:55and um what did they say when they saw
44:58the report cards did they ever question
45:02it not question no up until how did they
45:07actually figured out when I know they
45:09figured out you weren't living with your
45:11friend
45:13um do they still at this point even know
45:16that you don't have any University yes
45:19my fa okay when did he find out um after
45:23I took the police okay so up until this
45:26event they just thought that I didn't go
45:28to school the full time okay but they
45:31still thought you had some credits okay
45:35um how did it feel having to lie to them
45:37all those years really
45:41hard like I wanted to tell them but it
45:44just they always look down and
45:48disappointment
45:49okay I'm sure there were days when you
45:52actually planned that this is the day
45:54I'm going to tell them and then
45:56you just couldn't spit it
45:59out all right
46:05um
46:08now what if your parents had let you
46:12would you still be with
46:15Daniel if they didn't interfere what
46:18would what would have happened not sure
46:21probably maybe I'd still be with him I'm
46:24not sure you never know all right yeah
46:27so we can't say because we don't know
46:29for sure I can say we could be friends
46:31but I don't know any more than that okay
46:34and do you want more than
46:36that I'm not sure I do right now okay
46:41all right
46:42um since the time You' come home have
46:45you wanted to you still went and saw
46:47them so obviously you were trying to
46:50keep something going okay um at what
46:53point did he move on
47:00February of last year okay 9 or February
47:05of 2010 of this year 2010 2010 okay and
47:11how how did he move
47:13on he one of his old uh friends
47:19he okay and who's that Christine okay
47:23and how does that make you feel
47:26I knew that we weren't together so okay
47:29but it made me feel that I wasn't good
47:33enough to be waitting to wait you mean
47:37okay so what was your kind of plan then
47:39go back to school and get my degree make
47:44something of my life with my parents and
47:46then once I make my life then see where
47:49we would go okay um
47:53so it was upsetting that he didn't wait
47:56till that played out yeah okay the
47:59pressing for you for me yeah okay what
48:02about him he still came back and said
48:05that you know I love you and it's the
48:07circumstances were different but it's
48:09not okay um did you ever plan a future
48:14together we discussed it but okay like
48:19marriage some days he'd say yes some
48:21days he'd say no okay so you brought it
48:24up you bring it up sometime okay so
48:28ultimately because you went out for so
48:30long they could have ended up in
48:31marriage still could Someday I'm not
48:33saying I'm not sure okay all right
48:42um on a fairness scale where would you
48:45put the this did you feel it was a fair
48:50decision do you mean that at 24 you have
48:54to stay at home with the curfew of
48:569:00 I knew I messed up I knew I messed
48:59up that I need to put my life back in
49:01Action okay do you think it had to be
49:04that strict
49:06though well considering my past
49:10I I thought it was a little strict but I
49:13I understood
49:15okay over the years what other things
49:18have you had to hide from your
49:24parents
49:26well just besides having boyfriends
49:30and um not going to school okay did you
49:33have a different boyfriend at one point
49:35then I dated Adrian for about four
49:38months in high school but that wasn't
49:40they didn't know about it it wasn't much
49:42it wasn't dating it was it high school
49:44yeah it was just I'll see you in class
49:46and that okay and what grade were you in
49:47at that time um 11
49:50okay um what have your friends said
49:54about all this
50:00well they don't know about the whole
50:01school thing they just know I'm going
50:02back to school okay who else knows that
50:06you never went to school though
50:09topz she she yeah she kind of
50:14knew she thought I was beinging with uh
50:16Daniel oh okay that was the cover but
50:18she thought you were still going to
50:19school yeah okay she didn't know the
50:21whole story no but she knew she was your
50:24cover for she just thought it was so
50:27they would know where you were staying
50:28yeah
50:29okay um did anybody else know that you
50:33weren't going to school who who who
50:34would know
50:36that I didn't tell them Daniel yeah
50:39anybody else
50:43um no did his parents know no no okay so
50:48just you and
50:51Daniel
50:53um what other things things have you in
50:57your Depression had to lie about over
50:59the last
51:00year just going to see him that I was
51:02still talking to Danel and that I'd try
51:06to find ways to communicate with him
51:08okay and how did you end up eventually
51:12communicating
51:17I okay how did that
51:20work I text him and he text me back
51:24whenever he could and
51:26just delete them when I got them okay
51:29now how did your uh parents monitor this
51:31cell
51:33phone when I was around them they didn't
51:35like me on it okay so what would they
51:37say who is that what is it why is it so
51:41important okay they end up taking it for
51:44a couple weeks when was that um when my
51:47first CL like what year in h okay since
51:51then how many times have they taken it
51:53away from you I can't tell
51:55more
51:56than five more than five okay and what
52:00were the occasions that resulted in them
52:02taking it away from you on the phone too
52:05much or they thought it was Daniel
52:09or that they was distraction okay so
52:13where would you be trying to make these
52:14calls from where would you be in the
52:15house in the basement like you had to go
52:18get something in the basement or I in
52:20the
52:22washroom okay so they would actually
52:24watch you every second of well not every
52:27second but they knew where about I was
52:29all the time and if they heard you
52:32talking now did they ever barge into the
52:34room and take the phone off you no no
52:38okay um so a lot of times I guess you're
52:42trying to text so they've un know is
52:44that fair to
52:46say okay so how did they find out you
52:48were talking to Daniel
52:53then um
52:59they just assume that I still do okay
53:02was there an occasion where you said
53:03they checked the phone or I told you I
53:05deleted the call history and stuff okay
53:09uh and did they ever find it before you
53:12got it
53:13deleted no okay now did they ever take
53:16the phone but you had another phone yes
53:19okay so how did that work he got me
53:22another phone and I just whenever I
53:24wanted to and I plug in the SIM
53:27card um but I kept the SIM card out of
53:29the phone in case they found the phone
53:31yeah and there would be no card in
53:33it so did they know you had more than
53:35one phone no no okay now how many phones
53:39did you end up having just the two and
53:42which for what uh the Bell line that he
53:46had that Daniel bought for me Y and then
53:48my own Rogers okay so your Rogers line
53:52uh what's the number on it
53:54again4 4 7965 2118 and then the one he
53:58gave
53:59you I don't remember I didn't give it
54:02out so I don't remember I'll remember
54:04like 519 with the middle three numbers
54:08oh okay uh it's a bell bell number and
54:13he gave it um so you can plug that SIM
54:15card into any phone and it'll work yeah
54:19so you could even put it in your is it a
54:21Samsung phone you had yes uh it didn't
54:23work in my Samsung it had the an iPhone
54:26okay and so where did you get the iPhone
54:29then uh Daniel he got it for me and my
54:33brother he has one um he got uh two of
54:36them and he had to fix around and the
54:40internet didn't work on the one I had
54:43okay um now you mentioned you were
54:46looking to get a new phone yes what were
54:49you trying to get my contract was ending
54:51so I was thinking of looking into buying
54:53uh another phone phal PLS are good but I
54:56didn't like the phal foam okay so I was
54:59planning on I got the SIM card I didn't
55:02activate it yet cuz I wanted to wait for
55:04my Rogers Pond to be over um and then I
55:07going to go to SP and then go to Pacific
55:09Mall and buy a phone that I like okay
55:12how much would a phone be 800 800 like
55:16the new ones what what kind of phone
55:18were you hoping to get iPhone 4 oh okay
55:21or the new BlackBerry the latest okay
55:24now oh you actually had a Blackberry at
55:26one point though U my brother yeah he
55:29gave me one of his friends old ones okay
55:31but it again no internet no nothing so
55:34you need that internet eh well it wasn't
55:36that I needed it it was just convenient
55:38you'd like it yeah okay now um did they
55:43ever take an iPhone off of you did they
55:45ever find it or did they just always
55:46take your Samsung phone yeah I'd always
55:48take my Samsung phone so right now you
55:51actually have a third chip than you're
55:54saying yeah I just bought it um but I
55:57hadn't activated it yet or okay and that
55:59was with who F and what's the number for
56:02that one there is no it's just I just
56:03bought
56:05the Box oh the Box okay SIM card only
56:09yeah okay and what kind of phone can it
56:11go into it it came with a like I bought
56:14a $50 phone so when I activated it it
56:17would work okay and I don't know the
56:19model it's just a basic basic phone okay
56:23now what kind of phone
56:26it's just a tital phone I don't know
56:29don't know the brand on the phone okay
56:31so where's that phone now um it was at
56:34home and my brother just brought it for
56:35me but I'm not using it
56:38cuz oh he he ended up buying it for you
56:41no he bought he brought it it was at my
56:43it was still at my house and okay he
56:45just recently yesterday he just brought
56:47it home okay so he's been back to the
56:49have you been back to the house since I
56:50can't I can't even go near the house
56:52okay all right and where are you staying
56:54now now then at my Uncle M's house okay
56:57and how's that going okay okay
57:03um now when's the last time you spoke to
57:06your
57:07dad I I'm at the
57:10hospital Saturday
57:13okay and he called me uh this morning
57:17just to see if my brother had made it
57:19into school with
57:21okay and what have you and your father
57:25discussed about this
57:26case he just asked me if Daniel was
57:30behind it okay and I told him I don't
57:33know 100% but I don't think he did okay
57:37why would he ask
57:39that because he believ that we still
57:43talk and that you would go to anyone to
57:45be with me okay and what do you think
57:48about
57:50that I know that he's moved on but I
57:52don't think he
57:53would he go read L to be with me when
57:56he's already moved on
57:58okay
58:02um what else did you discuss about the
58:05case about what happened that
58:10night I haven't spoken to him about
58:13it nothing about what went on any
58:17details No all he said
58:20was that was a d okay
58:25and you told him you don't think so I
58:27don't think so but is it
58:30possible I don't think he knows anyone I
58:33don't think you did it
58:35but I can't be 100% sure so you can't
58:38say
58:39no he can't say for sure not is that
58:43what you're
58:45saying uh has he told you that he did it
58:49has Daniel told you that he's done it no
58:51or had anything to do with it no no
58:56okay
58:58now um who else have you discussed the
59:01case
59:04with well besides the officers and my
59:07social worker I haven't spoken any
59:10details to anybody okay what about
59:14relatives
59:16I my uncle did ask me he confronted me
59:20about something about having a black
59:23friend but I
59:25I didn't know what he was talking about
59:28okay uh do you have any black
59:30friends no but when he said that the
59:33police officers had a photo of me
59:36talking with a friend uh it wasn't he's
59:40not really a friend he was more a friend
59:42of mine's roommate okay so I didn't
59:46like he's not a friend of mine but um
59:50yeah I I did I did meet up with him once
59:53or twice okay okay and who is that um my
59:57friend Andrew one of his old roommates I
59:59only know him by Rick Rick okay and
1:00:03where did you meet
1:00:04him um the first time he met me near My
1:00:09Piano
1:00:10School um I said uh we just met up and
1:00:15my friend Andrew was like he he was on
1:00:17the phone and I got us my friend um he
1:00:20my friend was busy working in with Saga
1:00:23and they were having some rent
1:00:25problems so uh they asked me if I could
1:00:28help them out with the event okay so
1:00:31what happened so I met up with him a
1:00:33little later at agent Court just chatted
1:00:35a bit and then uh I lent him the money
1:00:40okay so how much money did you lend them
1:00:45uh like about 1100 1100 okay and this is
1:00:50you gave it to this Rick guy yeah okay
1:00:53and he was introduced you through Andrew
1:00:55yeah okay what's Andrew's last name Mont
1:00:58mayor is that one of you the friend you
1:01:00talk to all the time I don't talk to him
1:01:03a lot but occasionally we go through
1:01:05like maybe a week or two of talking a
1:01:08lot and then we drift apart for a couple
1:01:10mon how do you spell his last
1:01:13name mono
1:01:15mono I forget okay what's his phone
1:01:20number
1:01:23um
1:01:26647
1:01:28618
1:01:308643 618 8643 647 start is that the
1:01:35Andrew you were talking to the
1:01:37night
1:01:39um uh before you talk to the other
1:01:42gentleman before Edward yeah okay um
1:01:47okay so now Rick um you made him where
1:01:50at agent court and what uh it was uh
1:01:55Kennedy and Shephard Kennedy and
1:01:57Shepherd and what what type of place did
1:01:59you meet about like my met him we went
1:02:01for coffee and we walked around and then
1:02:04we went to the library cuz Andrew wanted
1:02:06to meet me and uh see see the place CU
1:02:10we hadn't seen each other in a while
1:02:12okay see what place I see my house like
1:02:14come visit me okay and so you came back
1:02:16to your house no uh so I gave Rick the
1:02:20address so that uh he can go home and
1:02:23give it to Andrew and I showed him how
1:02:25to commute cuz he doesn't drive but I
1:02:27showed him how to commute up to my uh so
1:02:30you took Rick up to your place no you
1:02:33just told him where it was and he was to
1:02:36tell Andrew who then could come and
1:02:38visit you sometime yeah okay um and so
1:02:42what uh what was the building that you
1:02:45met uh for coffee at what was the coffee
1:02:47shop not hon okay and where was the
1:02:50location uh Kennedy and Tripper and when
1:02:52was that
1:02:57I'm not
1:02:59sure spring summer I don't remember EXA
1:03:03okay um this
1:03:06year okay and um second time you met him
1:03:11that was the second time I met him where
1:03:13did you meet him the first time I told
1:03:14you at near My Piano School okay sorry
1:03:17and where though specifically okay I sh
1:03:21it
1:03:22in and where at another coffee shop or
1:03:25what was that no I was just I just
1:03:26finished piano we introduced each other
1:03:29and then I had to go home okay and who
1:03:32else was there nobody okay and how did
1:03:37he know to come see you there we were on
1:03:39the phone with Andrew and Andrew was
1:03:41like yeah and where was Andrew at the
1:03:44time he was in I believe okay and so the
1:03:49first time you met him what did you talk
1:03:50about no just hello I'm Andrew's
1:03:53roommate how are you
1:03:56okay so he was living with Andrew at the
1:03:57time yeah are they still living together
1:04:00I don't think so okay and where were
1:04:02they
1:04:03staying I'm not sure somewhere in Mr
1:04:06okay and who um why didn't Andrew just
1:04:12meet you he was doing uh he was in the
1:04:15process of doing uh Insurance stuff okay
1:04:18like I think he was doing classes or
1:04:19seminars or something but he wasn't able
1:04:22to come out to ton
1:04:24and what race is Andrew Filipino
1:04:27Filipino okay and um this Rick guy him
1:04:33and Andrew lived together for how long
1:04:36I'm not sure he just said he was a
1:04:38really good friend okay and they lived
1:04:39together and so what was the time that
1:04:43you met him first then when was
1:04:45that maybe just a week before I met him
1:04:47the second time
1:04:50okay um and what did you discuss then
1:04:54nothing it was just uh who he who he was
1:04:57and yeah and then I had to go okay and
1:04:59so the next time you met him how come
1:05:01you met him the second
1:05:03time because that's after that Andrew
1:05:06was like yeah we're having problems with
1:05:08rent and
1:05:10okay and okay so they wanted
1:05:13money they my a friend Andrew wanted to
1:05:16see if I could he can L uh if I could
1:05:18metion some money okay and so you did
1:05:22and you gave the money to who Rick okay
1:05:25that day um at Tim Horton okay and what
1:05:29else did you discuss that day just what
1:05:33he like doing like he said he liked uh
1:05:35these like Japanese manga books and
1:05:38Japanese manga books they like comic
1:05:40books or something okay yeah that's his
1:05:42hobby yeah what else like I asked him if
1:05:45he was working he like no I'm looking
1:05:46for a job and okay um I just B my piano
1:05:50stuff and I was it okay what is it that
1:05:53Andrew actually does
1:05:55he's uh doing some sort of like selling
1:05:59life insurance I believe I'm not What's
1:06:01the companies with did you try to sell
1:06:04you a policy yet or
1:06:06no usually they go after their friends
1:06:08first yeah but I told them right off to
1:06:10that I'm like I'm okay I'm not buying
1:06:12any okay so um he uh you gave him $1,100
1:06:18where did you get the
1:06:20$1,100 I have a lot saved up from an I
1:06:23was
1:06:25cash okay so how much do you have saved
1:06:28up like now or yeah oh I had about just
1:06:33a little under a thousand saved up
1:06:37recently okay all right so right now how
1:06:40much do you have a th000 you're saying
1:06:42well now I don't have any right okay you
1:06:45took it off okay so
1:06:49um now before Andrew took the money how
1:06:53much did you have
1:07:022,000,000
1:07:03okay and so um you gave him 1100 has he
1:07:08paid that back yet uh I talked to him
1:07:11recently that he's working on it he's
1:07:12just working at home sense right now and
1:07:15uh he just moved back home so that
1:07:17should decrease his rent so he said he's
1:07:20working on that which home sense I'm not
1:07:22sure okay and where does he actually
1:07:24live with his par I believe which
1:07:27is you don't know
1:07:30okay um this Rick fella what about him
1:07:33where does he live I haven't I don't
1:07:35know I haven't spoken to him for a long
1:07:40time just more of an acquaintance okay
1:07:43so after you gave him the money did they
1:07:45give you a receipt or anything no no
1:07:48okay what was his promise to you about
1:07:50how he would pay you back well Andrew
1:07:52said that he'd pay me back could okay
1:07:55you didn't give any timelines no no
1:07:59okay
1:08:01um okay so and after you talk or saw
1:08:06Rick have you seen him since that day
1:08:08you gave him the money okay have you
1:08:10talked to him since maybe a week after
1:08:13but no okay what did you talk a week
1:08:15after no just ask him how he was if the
1:08:18rent was okay and what he was doing was
1:08:20like just watching some of his friends
1:08:21kids or something and where was their
1:08:24apartment somewhere in missa you I guess
1:08:29they're not are you saying they're not
1:08:30there anymore yeah I know my Andrews is
1:08:33back home
1:08:35okay um okay do you know any other black
1:08:40guys not that are very very close with
1:08:42me
1:08:44okay um who would be that are very close
1:08:47to you well Daniel's best friend is uh
1:08:50black okay and what's his name Carlos
1:08:52Finch Carlos Finch okay and um did you
1:08:58ever talk to him
1:08:59or okay how come you say their best
1:09:02friends they went to elementary school
1:09:04together they grew up together almost
1:09:06neighbors they still hang out um I
1:09:09believe I okay believe so when's the
1:09:12last time you saw a
1:09:15cardinal years years yeah okay um does
1:09:20Daniel still hang out with them then or
1:09:22I believe so when last time they would
1:09:24have been you seen them together oh I've
1:09:26seen them together I years does Daniel
1:09:29ever talk about them sometimes for
1:09:32birthdays and stuff like I went up for
1:09:34my birthday or his birthday or would be
1:09:37there yeah okay and so when when your
1:09:41last birthday was did you go out with
1:09:43Carlos was Carlos there oh me no no no I
1:09:46meant like his birthday or Carlos's
1:09:48birthday um when Daniel's birthday comes
1:09:51around do you make a point of seeing him
1:09:54I try but it doesn't always work
1:09:57out
1:10:02um
1:10:04okay
1:10:08um how many uh so a personal black
1:10:13friend do you don't have one or you do
1:10:15no um how about Filipino
1:10:20friends Edwards Filipino okay good
1:10:23friend of mine all right um Andrew like
1:10:26I said we talk but we're not really like
1:10:28close we don't ever see each other I can
1:10:31never get out to see him okay uh what
1:10:34about white friends I have eding pich
1:10:38like I said and G okay there are the
1:10:42two now is Tim convinc is that Ukrainian
1:10:45Ukrainian European yeah okay you know
1:10:48where he's actually from or he's born
1:10:50here his parents were born here too oh
1:10:53born here yeah oh both I believe so okay
1:10:56but his grandparents from Ukraine I
1:10:59believe so he's very into the Ukraine
1:11:02yeah culture
1:11:04okay
1:11:09um
1:11:11now obviously we spoken to a lot of
1:11:14people right okay uh one of your
1:11:16relatives said that you had mentioned
1:11:18that um these guys liked you that broke
1:11:22into the house
1:11:25why did you say that I didn't say that I
1:11:28said that I asked them why like when
1:11:30they separated my parents away from me I
1:11:33asked them why could I be with them and
1:11:35they're just like you cooperated just Co
1:11:37keep
1:11:40cooperating okay so you're saying you
1:11:43made that comment to a relative that
1:11:45they liked you though why I don't is
1:11:47that what you meant or what
1:11:49was I don't
1:11:52understand
1:11:57I don't really understand okay did you
1:11:59feel like they liked you no they were I
1:12:04if you have a gun to your head I don't
1:12:05think they they like you very much okay
1:12:07but they didn't shoot you
1:12:09no why did they not shoot you I I don't
1:12:14know when I when they took my parents
1:12:17away I asked to go with them and they're
1:12:18like shut
1:12:21up but you must have thought of this you
1:12:23must be thinking I I still do and I I
1:12:26spoken to the therapist about it okay
1:12:29and why do you what have you come up
1:12:31with in your mind
1:12:34why the only thing they they could say
1:12:36was they kept saying that you know I
1:12:37cooperated and to shut up and cooperate
1:12:40keep cooperating did you feel like your
1:12:42parents didn't
1:12:45cooperate I don't know okay is there
1:12:48something that they didn't cooperate
1:12:50with they were trying that's what I mean
1:12:53like so really they did cooperate when
1:12:55you think about it there was no money to
1:12:58be found no they told the
1:13:01truth dad said he had $60 right
1:13:07um so there wasn't anything that he
1:13:10wasn't cooperating with I don't
1:13:14know I'm just trying to say you were
1:13:16there I'm just trying to get a feel for
1:13:17did you think he wasn't cooperating no I
1:13:20thought that he was everyone was
1:13:21cooperating that's what they kept saying
1:13:23no one will get hurt if you just
1:13:24cooperate I'm trying to figure out where
1:13:27they didn't
1:13:31cooperate is there any time that you
1:13:33believe they didn't cooperate I wasn't
1:13:35with them the entire time I was only
1:13:37with them for a short period of time
1:13:38okay but during that time that you were
1:13:40there you were in the house did you hear
1:13:42them not cooperating I guess is the
1:13:44question I didn't hear anything they
1:13:47just kept asking where everything was
1:13:48but right did your couldn't remember
1:13:51okay did did your parents lied to
1:13:55them I don't know that you can from
1:13:58anything you heard did they tell a
1:14:02lie I don't know like all I know I don't
1:14:05know how much my father had I didn't
1:14:06know how much okay but they ultimately
1:14:09found your dad's wallet I'm not sure
1:14:12okay and your mom's purse I they
1:14:16couldn't find it after the internet took
1:14:18me away
1:14:20okay um
1:14:25but they never said they never lied to
1:14:27them I guess is what I'm getting down to
1:14:29that you
1:14:30remember during any interaction you
1:14:35had I don't understand it no no like do
1:14:38you feel like they
1:14:44cooperate now do you think there's any
1:14:46reason why they tied you up and didn't
1:14:49tie your parents
1:14:52up
1:14:57I don't know does that seem odd to
1:15:01you why do it seem
1:15:04odd because I was away of PR separated
1:15:07from the M whole
1:15:11time and does it make sense that they
1:15:14would leave a witness
1:15:18behind if they were going to kill
1:15:19somebody does that make
1:15:22sense
1:15:24gu I just thinking about it would it
1:15:27make sense for somebody that was going
1:15:29to kill somebody to leave a witness
1:15:32behind that could describe
1:15:34them does that make common sense for
1:15:37Killers that's
1:15:41not what do you
1:15:45think you think that was a mistake they
1:15:48made then I don't know they kept saying
1:15:50that they're running out of time and
1:15:51they
1:15:52just a long time to kill someone or does
1:15:54it I know I I don't know no okay um when
1:15:58you say they kept saying who kept saying
1:16:01perpetrator okay which ones
1:16:04though one of them he kept telling me
1:16:07that you know taking too long okay all
1:16:11right how long did this thing last in
1:16:13your mind I know you didn't have a watch
1:16:16on
1:16:17but or I guess you did have a watch on
1:16:19didn't you no I didn't um did you look
1:16:22at the time at
1:16:24all you look at the time on your cell
1:16:26phone at
1:16:30all just estimating how long it went on
1:16:34how in your mind because you were there
1:16:36how long did you think it
1:16:42lasted I don't
1:16:44know all I know is what people told me
1:16:48proximately okay which is about what
1:16:50it's got to be somewhere like half an
1:16:51hour to 45 I don't know half an hour and
1:16:5545 all right now I have your statement
1:16:58here the first one that you gave so I
1:16:59just want to go over some of the
1:17:00information there just to make sure that
1:17:03I I understand it okay um in the
1:17:07morning
1:17:10um your mom was going to visit your
1:17:14grandfather and um she went outside and
1:17:17then there was a problem with a gas leak
1:17:19on the street is that right okay
1:17:23when she first went out did you go out
1:17:25with her no no okay when she uh was
1:17:31going were you going to go with her
1:17:35originally no you never were going to go
1:17:37see your
1:17:38grandfather I seen him the day before
1:17:41and she said to concentrate on my
1:17:43studies okay just that you did go
1:17:45outside so I was wondering she she came
1:17:48back in and told come she told you to
1:17:51come over okay
1:17:53uh because of
1:17:56what okay so she had gone out and then
1:17:58she came back to get you and then you
1:18:01went out together I I went into change
1:18:03and we left okay so what did you change
1:18:06into then I don't remember don't
1:18:08remember okay um and then you went back
1:18:13out and they called the gas leak
1:18:15off and you went back in and your mom
1:18:18went to see your grandfather that
1:18:21correct okay was anyone else at the host
1:18:23at that
1:18:25time yes no no
1:18:30okay and um then you went and on to the
1:18:36internet um or did some studies and you
1:18:40played some games on Facebook is that
1:18:43correct okay what games do you play on
1:18:49Facebook City F out the award
1:18:53what's the last one sir okay and are you
1:18:57playing against somebody or by
1:19:00yourself all my community okay and who's
1:19:03in that any of your
1:19:06friends my friend Mark Mark what pong
1:19:10Mark pong okay so that morning were you
1:19:12playing against him you don't play
1:19:14against like s each other gifts and you
1:19:18work on your own you love to okay and so
1:19:22you
1:19:23uh were working on which all three of
1:19:26those games or just one of
1:19:34them I don't know all of them a little
1:19:36bit this a little bit of that okay and
1:19:39how do you when you go on how do you get
1:19:42a hold of him to know do you have to
1:19:43phone him ahead of time and say let's go
1:19:45online or what do you do like you do
1:19:48your own thing and then you know if
1:19:49you're online and the other person's
1:19:50online you just message them hey can you
1:19:53send me just gift that gift okay and so
1:19:55is that what you did that day you were
1:19:57in communication with him I think I
1:19:59don't remember anymore okay all
1:20:02right okay then
1:20:07um you played some piano how long would
1:20:10you play piano
1:20:14for half an hour an hour okay and what
1:20:17do you actually do are you practicing
1:20:19are you going over stuff you already
1:20:20know or you playing for pleasure are you
1:20:23playing for do you know what I mean I
1:20:27practice some of my older
1:20:29pieces okay and then I do a little bit
1:20:32of practical for my dam and then I do a
1:20:36little bit for pleasure okay so it's a
1:20:38combination of everything okay and you
1:20:42do that for about a half an hour an
1:20:51hour
1:20:57okay so you go through the day and
1:20:59eventually your mom comes back around
1:21:093:30 did she tell you how your
1:21:12grandfather was doing or did you talk
1:21:14about that yeah that you know he wasn't
1:21:18eating much
1:21:20okay and what's happened with your
1:21:23grandfather
1:21:25since okay and when did that happen the
1:21:27day wow eh sorry you hear
1:21:31that and were you guys close
1:21:34or what was your relationship like with
1:21:41him he's quite old yeah so he doesn't
1:21:45remember much okay but
1:21:48um I see him as much as I could yeah
1:21:52okay
1:21:53and that's your mother's father okay and
1:21:56what about your grandma is she still
1:21:58around or no okay and he was in the
1:22:02nursing home I understand
1:22:05okay and um when did he actually come to
1:22:08caned do you know with my mom okay so
1:22:12years
1:22:14ago he brought the family over they they
1:22:17have all Refuge to Canada Pard me they
1:22:20all Refuge to Canada okay
1:22:23okay and does your mom have some
1:22:25brothers and sisters or Lots okay and
1:22:28did they all come over most of them
1:22:32okay and do some of them live on your
1:22:35street or is that your dad's side no
1:22:38that's my mom okay so how many and
1:22:40that's who you're staying with now your
1:22:42aunt your mom's sister my mom's brother
1:22:45brother
1:22:48okay and what's your aunt's name in your
1:22:52St
1:22:58UT
1:23:01okay all
1:23:13right okay so Adrian came
1:23:16over is that right okay and anything um
1:23:22you watch some shows did you talk about
1:23:25anything
1:23:27no like when you watch your shows do you
1:23:29have uh talk about them after or how's
1:23:32the how's the evening going with him I
1:23:34just watch and then what's next if joke
1:23:38we
1:23:39laugh okay and what were you watching
1:23:41that
1:23:45night all go girl but then there was
1:23:49another show that don't remember which
1:23:51one and how many shows did you actually
1:23:54watch I'm not sure three four
1:23:59two and are those shows a half hour or
1:24:01an hour long somewhere an hour somewhere
1:24:03half okay and so the whole time he was
1:24:06there did you watch TV or did you have
1:24:08some conversation or mainly TV
1:24:12conversation what's that just talked
1:24:14about what else did you talk
1:24:16about the TV that's it ever talk about
1:24:20anything else okay when you watch TV do
1:24:23you
1:24:24eat I offered him but no no you had
1:24:27already eaten we ate dinner I ate din he
1:24:30didn't want anything okay and from your
1:24:33place how far away does he actually live
1:24:3615 20 okay and where boat does he live
1:24:42will okay and the address
1:24:47there like 15 lewood 15 lewood now when
1:24:52do you ever do TV night at his
1:24:55place and obviously what well what do
1:24:58your parents think of
1:25:00him they like him why did they like
1:25:04him his mom is his mom and and parents
1:25:09are good people okay and um do the
1:25:14parents know each
1:25:16other they don't love each other okay
1:25:18like do they go to the same church or
1:25:20anything like that or same name social
1:25:23events or
1:25:24anything okay but they say they know
1:25:28they come from a good family
1:25:31okay um now you went up to once he left
1:25:36what did you do after he
1:25:39left went to my room okay and what did
1:25:42you do I watched TV I was on the phone
1:25:45Andrew okay and this is the same Andrew
1:25:50that you lent the money to okay okay and
1:25:53what did you guys talk
1:25:55about how he's doing his girlfriend okay
1:25:59and how is he
1:26:02doing like uh you said that he now we
1:26:04get home sent we move back home and put
1:26:07a straight on the relationship that they
1:26:08work
1:26:09together that she works at home since no
1:26:12she works at the insurance company that
1:26:14he works for as well okay so has he got
1:26:16two
1:26:17drops I guess like I know the insurance
1:26:20thing it's just whenever it is so the
1:26:23other on
1:26:24more
1:26:25okay and what else did he talk
1:26:28about not much
1:26:31else
1:26:32okay um and did he phone you or did you
1:26:36phone
1:26:37him what would the usual thing
1:26:40be sometimes one of us contact one
1:26:43sometimes you want to contact other okay
1:26:46but you you're verbally talking on the
1:26:48phone okay and how long did that go on
1:26:51for
1:26:53long I don't remember the call time
1:26:57about 15
1:27:0020 um and then what happened I hung up
1:27:06then I called Ed okay so you did call Ed
1:27:09and then what did you guys talk about it
1:27:12watching TV how work day
1:27:16was now is this a routine for you to
1:27:18phone out in the evening to people or
1:27:21Okay um um do your parents mind you
1:27:23calling people
1:27:25or okay um so it's not just Daniel they
1:27:29don't want you talking do it's they
1:27:30don't want you on the phone at all or
1:27:32yeah not late night not late nights okay
1:27:35but was that considered late or what y
1:27:38what's late for them
1:27:419
1:27:43okay and cuz your dad actually goes to
1:27:45bed fairly early I think so I don't
1:27:48remember when he actually no in general
1:27:50yeah okay cuz he works
1:27:52and yeah what time do you get up in the
1:27:53morning usually five okay uh and your
1:27:57mom do your mom and dad sleep in the
1:27:59same room or do they sleep apart
1:28:01sometimes they sleep together but lately
1:28:04she's been sleeping in my brother's room
1:28:06okay which
1:28:09isoss away okay all right so the one
1:28:12across from your room okay how long she
1:28:15been doing that for two years okay so
1:28:18it's more than lately then okay so for
1:28:21two years she's been sleeping across the
1:28:23hole any particular reason
1:28:33or having getting along Okay now what's
1:28:37her normal Turnin time it
1:28:41depends nor night okay so she stays up
1:28:45later than
1:28:46everybody or maybe you stay up late too
1:28:49I don't know what what's your usual turn
1:28:51in time turnning around 9 okay turnning
1:28:55you go to your room but how long do you
1:28:57usually stay up watching TV and trying
1:28:59to talk on the
1:29:01pH two in the morning okay so it can get
1:29:05obsessive okay um so is your dad a sound
1:29:09sleeper
1:29:11then sometimes yeah cuz he's upstairs
1:29:14during those times but your
1:29:16mom's um does she before when she stays
1:29:20up to midnight what does she do watching
1:29:22Chinese television okay her feet and
1:29:25where does she do that from living room
1:29:28okay how does it make you feel that they
1:29:30don't get along very
1:29:37well what does that do to you I have to
1:29:42mediated okay and when you mediate what
1:29:45do you got to
1:29:50do find the common ground okay and
1:29:55what's kind of the Common Ground that
1:29:57you usually go
1:30:01to get my leg
1:30:04back so you try to be if you can be good
1:30:07for them it'll help them is that your
1:30:09position yeah
1:30:12okay
1:30:15um now what's your typical fights
1:30:20about my dad being loud and noisy and
1:30:25inconsiderate my mom being Naggy my dad
1:30:28not doing enough housework and carrying
1:30:31as oppos to H as opposed to other
1:30:33people's houses okay what do you mean
1:30:36other people's
1:30:37houses just like he has all these ideas
1:30:40for other people's houses that he
1:30:42doesn't think and do our house like
1:30:45decorating and upgrading them okay but
1:30:49when he talks about his friends houses
1:30:51he has a lot of ideas is okay but he
1:30:53doesn't apply them to okay and how does
1:30:56that make your M feel then that he
1:30:58doesn't care about this hope the
1:31:02okay how does that make you
1:31:06feel I know that that's just my
1:31:09dad okay how long's this been going on
1:31:13the
1:31:15tension some I can remember it's always
1:31:18been there did your brother ever have to
1:31:21meet
1:31:24Med that year when I moved out well not
1:31:27moved out but the year I stayed away
1:31:29from home yeah he took a lot of it and
1:31:32he was at home at the time it this his
1:31:34last year at school
1:31:36okay all right and then when he left you
1:31:39were on your own
1:31:41again okay what do you and your brother
1:31:44discuss about that how's how do you feel
1:31:48about
1:31:50it goodby
1:31:52Comfort I try to go and comfort my mom
1:31:54help my mom off of stuff and he goes to
1:31:56my dad calming him down talking to him
1:31:59about interest okay so we separate them
1:32:04s um the arguments how what do they do
1:32:08during the
1:32:12arguments yeah biger okay and when you
1:32:16hear the yelling what does that do to
1:32:19you tells me I need to go to where they
1:32:22are to help them calm
1:32:26down all right
1:32:29um and how often do they actually get in
1:32:32one of these loud
1:32:34fights almost every day almost every day
1:32:38okay um and what was the last fight that
1:32:42they
1:32:44had my father came home got
1:32:50okay they had an argument about
1:32:54them and how did that
1:32:58go my mom just left for
1:33:01dance okay my dad left first and then
1:33:04sorry he left after he came home from
1:33:06work and then he called on my uncle left
1:33:09and then by the time my dad got home and
1:33:10ate dinner my mom had to
1:33:12leave
1:33:14okay um so they didn't have the time to
1:33:18but originally there was a fight that
1:33:20night
1:33:22okay and what did your mom say to your
1:33:25dad she
1:33:28said where did you go until that time
1:33:30may she didn't believe that just forgot
1:33:32to lock his something at
1:33:35work
1:33:38okay did it sound unreasonable to you
1:33:41or I don't know if you forgot something
1:33:45I wor he for not work but usually why
1:33:47she was yelling CU he doesn't turn on
1:33:48his phone or he doesn't let us know so
1:33:50okay she
1:33:52didn't think it was considerate I guess
1:33:54is what the argument really was about
1:33:56not so much that you were late but you
1:33:57didn't call about it is that
1:33:59more if I'm wrong tell me but I'm just I
1:34:02think so okay and
1:34:06um but he was what a half an hour late
1:34:09compared to usual 40 minutes 40 minutes
1:34:13okay what did she think he was doing in
1:34:16those 40
1:34:18minutes she never said did she believe
1:34:21that his story or
1:34:25not she didn't
1:34:28really now was she more upset that he
1:34:31was late or that he just didn't
1:34:33call he has a phone and he never uses it
1:34:37okay um the supper is it usually made
1:34:40for a certain time every night which is
1:34:43what time 5
1:34:455:30 so he'd have been home in time for
1:34:48that though yeah okay
1:34:53now um when you went up to your room to
1:34:55get ready for bed what does that
1:35:00entail tee good on
1:35:02my
1:35:05okay and um what do you wear to
1:35:10bed
1:35:12comfortable okay do you wear
1:35:15pajamas sometimes not all the time okay
1:35:18what what would make you wear them or
1:35:20what would make you not wear them
1:35:22laundry or how lazy I am or how
1:35:24comfortable my regular clothes are okay
1:35:26did you actually change your clothes
1:35:28that
1:35:29night I put on a sweater cuz it was cool
1:35:33okay which CH was what gting sweater I
1:35:36believe okay um and what did you have
1:35:39for
1:35:45bottoms like black pants okay and so did
1:35:51you actually change in out of them or
1:35:54had how long had you had those on I
1:35:57don't
1:35:59remember I'm sorry I don't remember when
1:36:02would have you put them on that
1:36:04day maybe in the morning
1:36:06I when my mom asked me to go with her
1:36:10okay I
1:36:11think um underneath the skating shirt
1:36:15what did you have
1:36:18on I don't think I had anything on
1:36:23I so you had to take something off
1:36:27that's why I'm just getting to if you
1:36:29put that on did you take anything off my
1:36:31bra okay and maybe a pink top cuz you
1:36:36obviously weren't walking around with
1:36:37adjust your bra all day is that fair I'm
1:36:41sorry I just don't remember the det yeah
1:36:43take your time I just don't remember a
1:36:45t-shirt or something yeah
1:36:47okay um and what you put on the
1:36:52you remember that okay and then what
1:36:57happened fromwhere you were essentially
1:37:00then um on the phone just
1:37:05watching watching TV and talking to Ed
1:37:08on the phone okay how did the
1:37:11conversation end with
1:37:13Ed I heard my father my mother calling
1:37:16from my father
1:37:20okay and then what have to go through
1:37:23this again okay at um when you went to
1:37:27bed was your mom home yet she had just
1:37:30gotten home and I went down I told Ed
1:37:32I'll be right back and I I went down I
1:37:35said hi to her and I went back up to my
1:37:37room okay so what time would have that
1:37:40been I guess it was going I'm trying to
1:37:41get up
1:37:439:15 okay so she got home you went down
1:37:47how long did you when she came home she
1:37:49changed yeah and then did you that's
1:37:51when I know she came home when she went
1:37:53up to change and she went back
1:37:55downstairs and I went down to say hi
1:37:58grab a glass of water I believe and went
1:38:00back up to okay and then you were back
1:38:03on the phone with
1:38:04Ed when you heard what calling up my dad
1:38:09okay
1:38:11so when you went down to see your mom
1:38:14what did you talk about nothing I just
1:38:17hi she was watching her Tiny shows I
1:38:20just left her alone
1:38:21okay and what else did you do while you
1:38:23were
1:38:25downstairs just went to go get a glass
1:38:27of water and then went back up
1:38:30the okay and where did you get the glass
1:38:33of water
1:38:36from
1:38:38um now while you're downstairs at any
1:38:42time do you make sure that the host is
1:38:45secure that's be the person who goes to
1:38:47bed last okay uh just in our house
1:38:50anytime time anybody's going to bed they
1:38:52usually each one of us end up doing it
1:38:54in case somebody else forgets so did you
1:38:57uh check the front door at all I don't
1:39:02no no no back door side
1:39:05doors okay if you were the one to go to
1:39:09bed last what doors would you check back
1:39:11door and front door okay and what would
1:39:13you
1:39:14do make sure that they're locked okay
1:39:18and if they weren't locked locked them
1:39:20locked them okay
1:39:22um and the back door how do you guys
1:39:25secure
1:39:28that lock and pull close okay is that a
1:39:32slider do you guys put a piece of wood
1:39:34in there at all no so you just make sure
1:39:36it's locked
1:39:38okay um and so who would be the person
1:39:41that mostly does that then my mother
1:39:44okay um is it typical that if she's
1:39:47coming in late that she would lock
1:39:50it
1:39:54you know mean if it's already dark
1:39:56outside would she lock the door as soon
1:39:59as she comes
1:40:01in you know as opposed to being in the
1:40:03middle of the day and you just I think
1:40:05I'm pretty sure I
1:40:08don't not 100% sure like let's just say
1:40:11you came in and it was already dark
1:40:12outside mhm what Would You Do Well I
1:40:15block the door behind you yeah because
1:40:18you don't intend on going out again is
1:40:21common practice
1:40:24okay all
1:40:42right were you injured at all during the
1:40:46whole
1:40:49process
1:40:52okay not really
1:40:55anything oh okay when they tied your
1:40:59hands what kind of uh style did they tie
1:41:02them I'm not
1:41:04sure okay and when they tied you to the
1:41:07banister how did they do
1:41:12that one of them
1:41:14holding I okay and how did how did they
1:41:18tie I don't know
1:41:21they made me kept looking down let me
1:41:24look yeah but what could you
1:41:28feel a tight and then like another tight
1:41:32where did it feel
1:41:35tight okay so what was around your upper
1:41:40arm black face okay and what was around
1:41:45how else were you
1:41:47tied
1:41:49okay and
1:41:52were your wrists tied to the banister no
1:41:55how do you
1:41:57know I think they tied my first and had
1:41:59my arm to the
1:42:01B
1:42:03okay now
1:42:07um you mentioned um on the tape that you
1:42:11were getting loose what did you mean by
1:42:14that the the upper my upper arm is
1:42:19fall was
1:42:22falling okay where did it fall
1:42:25to short
1:42:27distance okay and how did you get it to
1:42:30do
1:42:32that I don't remember
1:42:38legally okay um and where did that
1:42:41string end up when the police got
1:42:45there
1:42:47okay what's that I don't want to go
1:42:51okay well the details are important
1:42:53because it shows us what uh what they
1:42:56did right we need we need to get that
1:43:00um the one thing I do want to go over is
1:43:03the
1:43:04description of the gentleman that you
1:43:07said you called them number
1:43:10one can you tell me that
1:43:16again the first person that uh you dealt
1:43:20with or
1:43:24that can you help me with
1:43:31that
1:43:38good you're going to have to speak up I
1:43:40can't hear
1:43:43you slightly shorter than sorry slightly
1:43:46shorter than me yep which is what maybe
1:43:5056
1:43:53yep what kind of
1:43:58building and what type of face round
1:44:01face
1:44:03okay
1:44:06and
1:44:09age late 20s early 30s okay and then
1:44:13there was a another
1:44:16gentleman that you called number
1:44:18two previously
1:44:22what would how would you describe
1:44:32him
1:44:33put
1:44:35cover was his face covered the whole
1:44:38time yeah I think with
1:44:42what
1:44:46okay
1:44:48okay and look out okay I appreciate that
1:44:53and the third person I
1:44:57didn't okay well you did see some of
1:45:00them
1:45:05yeah and what
1:45:10color I think it black it's all dark oh
1:45:15okay but he had
1:45:17a
1:45:19okay and how do you know it was
1:45:22Caribbean ited like what I hear on TV
1:45:27and people are okay what about um voices
1:45:32for the other two number
1:45:35one
1:45:46no and what about the neither of them
1:45:49had an accent or
1:45:51number two didn't speak very much so I'm
1:45:52not sure when he did speak
1:45:56one okay and what were those syllables
1:46:00okay okay
1:46:02yeah and what else did you hear from him
1:46:05I
1:46:07don't all right um do you need anything
1:46:11to drink at
1:46:16all okay you realize that it's important
1:46:19though
1:46:21okay all right
1:46:25um
1:46:27obviously everything is so important
1:46:30that night that it's probably the most
1:46:33important night of your life and I know
1:46:35it's tough to keep going over but it's
1:46:37important okay uh I'm just going to step
1:46:40out for a second
1:46:42okay did you need
1:46:45anything no okay hold
1:46:48tight I won't be long
1:46:58okay sorry about
1:46:59that all
1:47:02right
1:47:05um the money that you um they took from
1:47:10you how much was that
1:47:15again
1:47:172000 of mine in I don't us I believe
1:47:20I heard my mom 1100 but I don't know
1:47:24okay so prod of your own 2000 okay and
1:47:28what kind of denominations was
1:47:31that a 50 20 okay and if you had it in a
1:47:37stack how big would that stack
1:47:45be
1:47:47okay and where did you keep that and in
1:47:50my night table underneath the TV okay
1:47:55and how long had you kept it
1:48:05there okay and before that 6
1:48:09months it was
1:48:11in other bide
1:48:14table okay which is
1:48:16where why did you switch it
1:48:19up
1:48:20that one got okay so you moved it over
1:48:24did you have any other money in your
1:48:25room in any other
1:48:27places few 20 in my wallet okay did they
1:48:31get that I believe they did okay did you
1:48:34give it to them I they pointed at one
1:48:37person okay and what did they do with
1:48:41that don't
1:48:43okay you saw him take it or
1:48:47not okay and you haven't been back to
1:48:49check since
1:48:50I
1:48:52can't okay gotcha now
1:48:56um and where did that money come
1:49:00from some of it I just recently led her
1:49:03and others from money at un okay how
1:49:08much did you
1:49:10withdraw
1:49:11,500 twice but U it was to pay back my
1:49:15mom
1:49:17for we wouldn't okay so how much did you
1:49:21500 okay and when did you take that 500
1:49:29out before okay and the the other 500
1:49:33early on the week
1:49:35okay and where did you get that from I'm
1:49:39sorry where did that come
1:49:41from my bank and where's your
1:49:44bank when I was I don't remember the
1:49:47other withdraw but my one withdraw was
1:49:50at my most recent withdraw was at w and
1:49:54Wen I don't remember what the other okay
1:49:58um but you went through a teller or did
1:50:00you go through a cash machine machine
1:50:03okay for both or
1:50:07displine I'm pretty sure both okay and
1:50:11how much did you take out each time 500
1:50:13is that your maximum that you can take
1:50:15out on the machine okay how much do you
1:50:17have in your
1:50:19account
1:50:25th okay and where did that come
1:50:29from my mom your mom and when did she
1:50:32give it to you she gave me these checks
1:50:36okay she works and she puts it under my
1:50:40name she works
1:50:43where I don't know that's like like
1:50:46packaging company okay and that's on the
1:50:49side or yes okay and she puts it in your
1:50:52name and do you have to give her the
1:50:54money back then yes okay she she could
1:50:56have them okay by the time I withdrawn I
1:50:58give it to her okay and how come you
1:51:00hadn't withdrawn or how come you hadn't
1:51:02given it to her
1:51:04yet she hadn't asked for you she's like
1:51:08just wa it a few days and then but she
1:51:10knew you withdrew it uh no she's like I
1:51:12will be withdrawing okay she didn't know
1:51:15you already took it so why would you not
1:51:17just give it to her then why would you
1:51:19withdraw
1:51:20and not give it to
1:51:22her I don't know just I'd only give it
1:51:26to her because she forget to write in
1:51:28her book
1:51:30okay all right so how often does she
1:51:33give you that she has a check made out
1:51:35to you do you put the deposit in or okay
1:51:39how often does she make a deposit in
1:51:41your
1:51:43account once a week okay for 500 or
1:51:46what's it random random 200 300
1:51:50okay and they come from a packaging
1:51:52company and where's
1:51:57that in 14th area and does she report
1:52:01there every day or no just whenever they
1:52:04need to they call
1:52:06her all right um okay now the reason why
1:52:13I'm here today okay is that I'm an
1:52:17expert okay in what we call truth
1:52:21verification okay I'm not a homicide
1:52:23detective okay although I work on a lot
1:52:25of homicides okay so my job in any case
1:52:30and anybody that's a witness in this
1:52:32case I have to speak to Okay after
1:52:35they've been interviewed originally by
1:52:37anybody else okay and so what it's about
1:52:41is truth verification okay so basically
1:52:46all my studies come into interviewing
1:52:49and
1:52:50uh detecting
1:52:51deception uh determine if somebody's
1:52:54telling the police the truth okay
1:52:57because every investigation that we run
1:53:00that's a homicide we run a parallel
1:53:02investigation okay and when I talk about
1:53:04a parallel investigation what I mean by
1:53:06that is obviously the detectives that
1:53:08are assigned to the case Okay are trying
1:53:11to determine who's responsible for the
1:53:14home invasion who's
1:53:16responsible uh for what happened there
1:53:19okay
1:53:20that's their job okay my job is to
1:53:23determine whether everything somebody
1:53:26has told us as a witness or is a
1:53:29reporting party is actually the truth
1:53:32okay now in my experience as a police
1:53:35officer no matter what the case is okay
1:53:39um for some reason or another people
1:53:41make mistakes in
1:53:43that they don't always tell the truth
1:53:48okay um they may tell some of the truth
1:53:50but they don't always tell all of the
1:53:52truth do you know what I mean okay and I
1:53:55know in your life you've already had
1:53:57occasions where you you're well aware
1:53:59what half truths mean right what do they
1:54:02mean you don't Tru yeah so when we're
1:54:07talking about truth we're not just
1:54:08talking about a person saying
1:54:10something uh that's not true right
1:54:14that's one way of not telling the truth
1:54:16simply by making something up right do
1:54:18you agree okay but also withholding
1:54:23information is not telling the truth
1:54:25okay it's purposeful deception really
1:54:28right okay they're leaving stuff out
1:54:31that may assist the investigation okay
1:54:34that may lead uh to the people that are
1:54:37responsible from being caught right um
1:54:40and that's where uh we talked earlier
1:54:43about um so some people obstruct the
1:54:46investigation okay because they they
1:54:48provide facts that are told toally not
1:54:50true okay other things they tell about
1:54:53the case obviously did happen so what we
1:54:55talk about is a combination of people
1:54:59telling things that are totally not true
1:55:02leaving information out would be two
1:55:04ways that people haven't been
1:55:07truthful okay so how do I make my
1:55:12conclusions okay so some of the ways is
1:55:15obviously I count on my experience right
1:55:20I talk to thousands of people okay and I
1:55:23basically know when somebody's not being
1:55:26straightforward with me okay I can tell
1:55:29by the language they use how they answer
1:55:31the questions their body language how
1:55:33they treat the question that something's
1:55:36wrong here okay this doesn't make sense
1:55:39okay the other thing is something an
1:55:42understanding of what common sense is
1:55:45okay could this have happened that way
1:55:48by what the person's telling me could
1:55:50have it even happened like that okay is
1:55:53it realistic is it plausible okay
1:55:57so basically we're trained in statement
1:56:00analysis okay so what I did with your
1:56:03statement is I wrote it all out every
1:56:06word that you said okay just like
1:56:08everybody else that gave a statement
1:56:10every noun pronoun verb everything okay
1:56:14and people are trained to speak in a
1:56:16certain language okay and when they are
1:56:20not being truthful that shows up in
1:56:22their language they don't even know
1:56:24they're doing it okay but when we
1:56:27analyze the statement itself we know
1:56:30whether they're being truthful or not
1:56:31truthful okay and these days we even
1:56:34have software that assist us in that
1:56:36okay we're in the modern ages right okay
1:56:39so we have uh computer programs and one
1:56:42of the ones that we utilize in these
1:56:44cases is an analysis program called
1:56:47event probability analysis
1:56:50okay and what we do is we feed
1:56:52everything into the computer basically
1:56:54the computer I type it out and we feed
1:56:57it in and it takes you scan it in
1:56:59actually and it takes a copy of
1:57:01everything that's been said and it
1:57:04analyzes um what a person has said
1:57:07okay and based on what they say it will
1:57:11tell us where the areas of deception are
1:57:15okay when something's missing uh that
1:57:18they're not telling us
1:57:20okay areas of concern and uh areas that
1:57:24are flat out not truthful okay and areas
1:57:28that they you come back with a result
1:57:30that says not plausible okay because
1:57:33what it is is this software analyzes
1:57:36it's being entered by all police forces
1:57:39okay so it has data from thousands of
1:57:43cases right so if it gets information
1:57:46that's totally never happened before in
1:57:49any other their case right that tells
1:57:51you something right because human beings
1:57:54there's only so many ways to do
1:57:55something okay and people follow
1:57:58patterns okay and when things go outside
1:58:00of a normal pattern that's a red flag
1:58:04right do you agree when when when things
1:58:06don't add up so that that's another um
1:58:10thing that we look into of course I have
1:58:12to go over all the forensics of a case
1:58:16Okay because that's evidence okay okay
1:58:20and you're already aware of how many
1:58:22days the police were at your host right
1:58:24about what's that about this yeah days
1:58:28on on days on days and when they were
1:58:32there okay they're not just there um
1:58:35taking a couple pictures or anything
1:58:37okay they're going over that house with
1:58:39a fine tooth comb okay they're going
1:58:42over every hair fiber every skin cell
1:58:47every bit of blood because essentially
1:58:49you know what DNA is
1:58:51right okay basically a person cannot go
1:58:56in or out of a anywhere without leaving
1:58:59a part of themselves behind right you
1:59:02understand that you watch CSI at all
1:59:05little bit little bit but you're it
1:59:07tells you that it would be like if you
1:59:09and I walked out of this room right now
1:59:10right and we brought in our uh forensic
1:59:14experts right and what they would do is
1:59:16they would collect any hair any fiber
1:59:20uh any skin cells any DNA that was in
1:59:22this room okay and what they could do
1:59:25with that is simply say at the end of
1:59:27the day they would say you know what
1:59:29Jennifer Pam was in that room and Bill
1:59:31Gates was in that room okay it's
1:59:34conclusive that um we can't go in and
1:59:37out without leaving parts of ourselves
1:59:39behind you understand that right okay so
1:59:43obviously the forensic in this case uh
1:59:47will tell us a lot of information
1:59:50okay who was in what room who wasn't in
1:59:53what room okay what you have to remember
1:59:55is what is there and what is not there
1:59:58are just as
2:00:00important okay so if somebody was said
2:00:03to be in a certain
2:00:05room and our experts went through there
2:00:08and there were no fibers from that
2:00:10person what would that tell
2:00:14you yeah they weren't there okay um so
2:00:19in my work I'm looking for what's there
2:00:21but also what's not there is just as
2:00:24important and you know what a lot of
2:00:26times it's even more important okay
2:00:29because it goes to verifying what the
2:00:31person what the witnesses have told me
2:00:34okay or what they haven't told them both
2:00:37right okay so that that's another thing
2:00:40that uh of course that's uh done at
2:00:43every scene okay the other thing that we
2:00:46do is obviously we talk to a lot of
2:00:47people and you already know we've done
2:00:49that because we've talked to a lot of
2:00:51your friends and people that you know
2:00:54right so you're well aware that we don't
2:00:56leave any Rock unturned okay and so we
2:01:00go outad and do that uh you already know
2:01:03um that we've contacted these people
2:01:06because that's part of what we do in
2:01:07every investigation okay every interview
2:01:10is important every person that may have
2:01:12any knowledge at all is important right
2:01:16we also talked to people that have
2:01:17talked to the witness
2:01:19okay so if we've interviewed you for
2:01:22instance and then we go and interview
2:01:25that person that's talk to you they will
2:01:28tell us what you said okay and if
2:01:31there's odd things in what you've told
2:01:33them or they don't make sense of course
2:01:36we find that out because they tell us
2:01:38right and so that's another way we can
2:01:41determine if somebody's being truthful
2:01:43they tell someone else something
2:01:44different than what they told us
2:01:47ourselves or something that's in
2:01:49conflict with that
2:01:51right uh so that's another thing that we
2:01:53do um the other thing we do is we have
2:01:57to reach out to what we call modern
2:01:59technology okay so there some of the
2:02:01things that we utilize is satellite okay
2:02:05now are you do you know what satellite
2:02:06can do okay do you watch any of these uh
2:02:10when uh these War programs on TV where
2:02:13they do bombings and stuff have you ever
2:02:16seen any of that or when uh the Iraq War
2:02:19was on you ever see any of the news
2:02:21Clips where you can see the satellite
2:02:23honing in on
2:02:25buildings okay so we can go back and
2:02:28obtain satellite information okay and
2:02:32essentially the satellites a 24-hour
2:02:34video that's going on uh you know 24
2:02:38hours a day 7even days a week right it's
2:02:41recording
2:02:42information okay and that's how the
2:02:45military uses it in you know for
2:02:47precision bombing and everything else
2:02:49because they're able to find out where
2:02:51bombs are inside buildings and hone in
2:02:54on that through satellites and heat
2:02:56seeking uh uh apparatuses that tell you
2:02:59what's going on inside right okay so
2:03:02we're able to go back uh and review that
2:03:05okay and so we would have to obtain uh
2:03:09that data for specific address uh get it
2:03:12for the dates and time that we're
2:03:13concerned with okay and basically if
2:03:17people are moving around in a house
2:03:19um it's like an x-ray okay and basically
2:03:23we're able to tell you know are those
2:03:26movements are those actions that number
2:03:28of people consistent with the story that
2:03:30we've been told um are the people in the
2:03:34positions that the Witnesses are telling
2:03:36us they were in uh or are they different
2:03:39okay and if they're different why are
2:03:41they different is what what our question
2:03:43becomes right so that's a that's another
2:03:47uh thing that we do obviously just to go
2:03:49back to forensics for a minute what
2:03:51we're doing is stuff like um in this
2:03:54case that door knob is very important
2:03:56that door lock okay and so we're looking
2:03:59for who was the last one that actually
2:04:02uh touched that door knob or door lock
2:04:05right okay um did somebody lock it last
2:04:10or did somebody uh unlock it okay so we
2:04:14would see uh you would get like
2:04:16Fingerprints of one person locking and
2:04:18then overlap by the person that unlocked
2:04:20it that type of thing um and
2:04:24um again it would just be information
2:04:27that would go to determine what happened
2:04:29on in that house right and uh from there
2:04:33the other thing of course um in any case
2:04:37you know about Crim Stoppers right have
2:04:40you heard of Crime Stoppers before yeah
2:04:42call yeah okay when you get a case like
2:04:45this okay people want to help okay it's
2:04:49in the papers it's everywhere okay so
2:04:51people actually end up coming to us to
2:04:54help us out with the case okay now in a
2:04:57case like this we're actually very
2:04:59fortunate because the more people that
2:05:01are involved in a crime the more
2:05:03information we always get okay if a
2:05:06person goes out and commits a crime
2:05:08themselves who knows about
2:05:13it just themselves for sure and maybe
2:05:16anybody they tell right in a case where
2:05:20they actually is uh multiple people
2:05:23involved so in this case three people
2:05:26inside the house and a number of other
2:05:28people involved on the peripheral right
2:05:31um each of them knows okay so now we're
2:05:34getting into a higher number of people
2:05:36knowing what happens and you know what
2:05:38somebody always tells somebody else okay
2:05:42and so that doubles the number of people
2:05:45that know okay and then over drink and
2:05:49everything else that person tells
2:05:50another person and before we know it a
2:05:53ton of people actually know what
2:05:55happened that night okay and suddenly we
2:05:58get people calling in because what you
2:06:00know why they want to help okay there's
2:06:04other people that just want the money
2:06:06they know what happened they've heard
2:06:08about it they've heard it through a
2:06:10friend okay in all the years that I've
2:06:13been
2:06:14placing you don't know how many people
2:06:16actually call in on their own friends
2:06:19it happens all the time okay because
2:06:22they want that money okay they get
2:06:25greedy so we get calls all the time from
2:06:28people uh that are involved we also get
2:06:31people that are actually involved in the
2:06:32crime telling about other people that
2:06:34were involved in the crime and they're
2:06:36actually going to collect money on a
2:06:40case that they were involved in does
2:06:43that you hear what I'm saying okay and
2:06:47and so at the the end of the day okay
2:06:51there's so many resources available to
2:06:54me um that at the end of the day I'm
2:06:57going to know if a person's telling me
2:07:00the truth or not okay whether they and
2:07:03it may not be to me because I'm
2:07:05analyzing also every statement they made
2:07:08to the police okay and the other things
2:07:12that we do is obviously we get uh
2:07:14forensic sciences and profiling people
2:07:17involved to determine the events of
2:07:20these things okay now I can tell you
2:07:25that nothing surprises me in this job
2:07:29okay I am well
2:07:31aware that anybody on this Earth is
2:07:35capable of making a
2:07:37mistake okay I don't care who they are I
2:07:40don't care um if they're a priest I
2:07:44don't care if they're a school teacher I
2:07:46don't care what the situation is given a
2:07:51certain set of
2:07:53circumstances everyone has the
2:07:55capability Jennifer of making a mistake
2:07:58doing the wrong thing okay um the key
2:08:04though when I talk to people is when
2:08:07they made a mistake okay that's one
2:08:09thing right the key is to not keep
2:08:13making the same
2:08:15mistake
2:08:16okay and to get that that information
2:08:19out and get it off your
2:08:21chest okay you understand what I'm
2:08:24saying okay so at the end of the day
2:08:28from this case and I can tell you I've
2:08:30spent literally a week on this case
2:08:33going over information after information
2:08:36accessing all these sources speaking to
2:08:38every other expert on the case
2:08:42okay and at this point
2:08:45Jennifer I know that you've not been
2:08:47truthful with with the
2:08:49police okay you've not told us
2:08:53everything that you know purposely okay
2:08:58and that you've left information
2:09:00out okay there's a number of
2:09:04inconsistencies in what you've told the
2:09:07police okay one of the things you have
2:09:09to remember is that your dad was
2:09:13there okay and your dad had a front row
2:09:17seat to all of
2:09:19this okay and your dad's a very smart
2:09:24man okay and he has a very clear
2:09:27perception of what's going
2:09:29on and he tells a very truthful story
2:09:33because I've gone through this whole
2:09:34process with him okay I've had to do the
2:09:36same thing and I know he's being
2:09:39truthful okay the problem is that your
2:09:44story what you're telling is not
2:09:47truthful okay okay and we have to clear
2:09:49this
2:09:50up
2:09:52okay
2:09:54your rition of what happened one a lot
2:09:59of events you say that happened never
2:10:01did okay a lot of things that you told
2:10:04the police happen never happened okay
2:10:08they never happened in the sequence that
2:10:09you've told okay you got to remember
2:10:13that your dad was there okay that's just
2:10:16one part of it there's lots of other
2:10:17things that tell me that you've not been
2:10:19truthful all this analysis that I've
2:10:21been doing but on top of
2:10:24it that yours doesn't match at all
2:10:28except for a very few factors that you
2:10:30you've told truth but you haven't told
2:10:32all the truth we're getting into where
2:10:34you know you've spent a considerable
2:10:38amount of time in the last seven years
2:10:40telling half truths okay and I can
2:10:44understand why okay you've had a tough
2:10:46life okay what's happen to you to me
2:10:49equates to
2:10:51abuse okay and all the stresses that
2:10:56you've had and forced to lie I can
2:10:58understand why you did it okay but
2:11:00you're in another situation here where
2:11:02you're under another tremendous amount
2:11:04of stress okay and that stress is
2:11:07brought on by those same factors that
2:11:09brought on stress before okay the number
2:11:12one thing that brings on stress to you
2:11:15is when you're not
2:11:16truthful right
2:11:18that hurts you
2:11:20right okay and it doesn't feel good
2:11:23inside does it it breaks down the person
2:11:27that you are CU at the end of the day
2:11:29you're a good person I know that you've
2:11:31got a good heart okay in this case
2:11:36though you've made
2:11:37mistakes okay and you're involved in
2:11:40this I know that okay there's no
2:11:43question about it okay the only question
2:11:46right now is are you going to keep
2:11:49making mistakes are you going to go on
2:11:52the route that you've gone on over the
2:11:53years and try to pretend that things
2:11:56happened that never happened okay are
2:11:58you going to not face reality here okay
2:12:03you were not truthful to the police in
2:12:05this case we know that you're involved
2:12:09we've done our homework okay we have to
2:12:12resolve that now here today okay I need
2:12:16to know from you what really happened
2:12:20okay and I
2:12:21mean who's else is involved in this okay
2:12:25because there's no doubt Jennifer that
2:12:27you are okay we know that we're past
2:12:29that okay there's no question about it
2:12:32at all okay and I know why this has
2:12:35happened okay you have spent your whole
2:12:39life trying to live up to expectations
2:12:41that you can't make okay and that
2:12:44stressed the hell out of you you're a
2:12:4624-year-old woman being being treated
2:12:48like a
2:12:4915-year-old okay what you've never done
2:12:52anything that terrible in your life but
2:12:54you're being treated like you have
2:12:58you're not being treated like the adult
2:13:00that you are yes you made some mistakes
2:13:02big deal you're not the first person
2:13:05that has gone out and not told their
2:13:06parents that they're dating a guy
2:13:09because in your culture they don't
2:13:10accept it I understand it I've talked to
2:13:12people in here that have kept that
2:13:14secret for their whole life from their
2:13:17parents
2:13:18okay so that's not abnormal but that
2:13:20puts a lot of stress on you right that's
2:13:23not easy for you is
2:13:24it
2:13:26no now what we need to get down to here
2:13:30today Jen is what really
2:13:36happened you need to tell me what went
2:13:40on because you know who was in that
2:13:43house that
2:13:44night you do Jen there's no question
2:13:47about that okay
2:13:48okay there's no question about it okay
2:13:53you have actually given an improper
2:13:55description of the person you were
2:13:56dealing with upstairs number
2:14:00one you falsified the whole description
2:14:03of that person we know that okay we know
2:14:06that
2:14:07okay he yes you did Jen okay you did
2:14:12you've made a a mistake here and we got
2:14:14to get to the bottom of
2:14:16that that person did not exist in that
2:14:19house that night I know that okay we've
2:14:21done our homework okay you heard on the
2:14:25news that there was video right okay it
2:14:29wasn't three black guys that left that
2:14:31house you know that and I know that okay
2:14:35so we need to get down to why you have
2:14:37purposely told us a false description of
2:14:41number one okay no
2:14:45Jen it's totally wrong
2:14:48and it was done on purpose okay to
2:14:51mislead us okay because you're involved
2:14:54in this okay you cannot deny that okay
2:14:58you cannot deny that we know now okay so
2:15:01let's just get it out on the table
2:15:03you've made a mistake I know that okay
2:15:06but you can't live with this any longer
2:15:08than this you're you're your buddy
2:15:11nervous wreck over this thing this thing
2:15:15if you could take it back I know that
2:15:16you would if you could go back to that
2:15:19day and play this all over again it
2:15:20would be different okay but you need to
2:15:23right now know
2:15:26that we know that you're involved
2:15:28there's no question about that none
2:15:31whatsoever okay but what we also know is
2:15:35that you're a good person okay that's
2:15:37made a mistake here right you you've
2:15:40made some bad decisions okay and it's
2:15:43you know how you made the bad decisions
2:15:45that not talking telling your parents
2:15:48what's up you don't want to do that with
2:15:50us okay you don't want to do that with
2:15:52the police do you yeah you don't want to
2:15:54mislead me do you no okay so let's not
2:15:57do that you made a mistake that night
2:16:00you got involved with the wrong people
2:16:03okay you got involved in the wrong set
2:16:05of
2:16:06circumstances okay but that's over with
2:16:09now we're past that okay we know that
2:16:13that happened okay but you know what
2:16:19in all my years of policing it doesn't
2:16:21matter what goes wrong with people it's
2:16:24never too late to do the right thing you
2:16:27know that and I know that okay and what
2:16:30you can do here today is actually do the
2:16:32right thing okay you have to do the
2:16:35right thing okay you can't go around
2:16:38continuing this okay remember when you
2:16:41said what it did to you when you went
2:16:43through those years of
2:16:45depression that was brought on by not
2:16:47being truthful living a lie you don't
2:16:50want to keep living this lie okay
2:16:53everybody knows okay you know and you're
2:16:56getting the feeling from everybody
2:16:58around you that they know okay nobody is
2:17:02surprised okay there's nobody's
2:17:04surprised here okay after what you've
2:17:07been
2:17:08through I'm surprised this didn't happen
2:17:11a lot earlier truthfully okay you're 24
2:17:14years old and you were a prisoner in
2:17:16your own house
2:17:18you had lost your own
2:17:20identity there was no Jennifer anymore
2:17:23okay you were living for what somebody
2:17:25else wanted you weren't you you were
2:17:28what somebody else wanted you were
2:17:30living someone else's expectations okay
2:17:33and yes family is important but when
2:17:36family takes over you as a human being
2:17:39when they take your
2:17:41identity there is no more Jen so no
2:17:44matter how good their intentions are no
2:17:46matter how much they love
2:17:49you they're taking away
2:17:51Jen okay and you have gone through this
2:17:55for years in the middle of tension
2:18:00tension that's got to the point that it
2:18:02makes you sick your stomach churns over
2:18:06you don't wake up a day that there's not
2:18:07some issue on the table not some stress
2:18:10in your household
2:18:12okay essentially you've been told to
2:18:15live up to expectations you yourself 12
2:18:17years ago knew that you could not do
2:18:21okay they're taking away Jen there is no
2:18:26Jen they took Jen away the Jen that just
2:18:29wants to be a piano teacher why isn't
2:18:32that good
2:18:33enough why was that not good
2:18:36enough that was great expectations why
2:18:39not just be a lab technician why the
2:18:41doctor why does it always have to be
2:18:44something bigger why can't it just be
2:18:46what you want
2:18:49and all that has resulted in what's
2:18:52happened on on November
2:18:558th the tension built up to a point that
2:19:00you know what it's like an animal that
2:19:02gets cornered it's at some point the
2:19:05nicest dog when it's cornered bites
2:19:08back okay it's called
2:19:12self-preservation okay and in your case
2:19:15all that's happened here is self preser
2:19:18ation 18 months ago Jen you chose your
2:19:21family over
2:19:23Daniel okay but you gave up Jen in the
2:19:26process you gave up yourself to this
2:19:29whole thing there was no Jen anymore the
2:19:33genen that just wanted to to teach
2:19:36piano that wasn't good enough the Jen
2:19:39that just wants a normal 9 to5
2:19:43job that's not good
2:19:45enough and Jen was in a state of
2:19:48depression backed into a
2:19:51corner and what it came down to is one
2:19:55thing
2:19:57self-preservation
2:19:59self-preservation overrules anything in
2:20:01life okay at the end of the day it's
2:20:05like your life is being choked out of
2:20:07you that's what's been happening for the
2:20:09last seven years and
2:20:13basically the grip on your throat on
2:20:16your life has strong
2:20:17and tightened up to a
2:20:21point where either you do something
2:20:23about it or it's the end of
2:20:26J and you diminished to a point where
2:20:29the only thing you could do is fight
2:20:31back for
2:20:33once and that's what's happened here
2:20:35again we know that we know that and I
2:20:39again I'm surprised it took this
2:20:42long a 24-year-old young woman being
2:20:46treated
2:20:48as a prisoner in her own home I can't
2:20:51imagine like the rules that they have
2:20:53are for 12y olds not for somebody twice
2:20:57that age yes their intentions might have
2:21:00been good but they're not
2:21:02realistic they're not D wor
2:21:05they
2:21:07again their expectations weren't
2:21:09realistic were
2:21:11they you couldn't live up to them could
2:21:14you you tried to
2:21:19right am I right
2:21:22yeah and finally you had to bite back
2:21:26right you had no other choice you felt
2:21:29like you had no other options you
2:21:31thought of everything else including
2:21:33killing
2:21:34yourself to make this change
2:21:38right
2:21:41right I'm right aren't I
2:21:46Ken
2:21:51right it's
2:21:53okay we understand let's talk about it
2:21:58let's get it out in the open Jen that's
2:22:01all this is about understanding we know
2:22:04that you were involved we know what you
2:22:09did but you can't live like
2:22:14this you got to get it off your chest
2:22:19you've been so stressed out from the
2:22:21moment this
2:22:25happened you knew that it was going to
2:22:27happen that
2:22:29night before it
2:22:33happened and why you froze on your bed
2:22:36there is because reality had set in the
2:22:39plan was in
2:22:41motion there was no turning
2:22:45back and I know right now you wish you
2:22:47could turn it back
2:22:49right you wish you could go back before
2:22:51that night and stop this
2:22:54right right
2:22:58Jen
2:23:05right what
2:23:14happened what happened
2:23:25happened okay it happened yes the guys
2:23:29came in okay but you were involved
2:23:31that's what the difference is here okay
2:23:35right a lot of what you said happened
2:23:37but a lot of it that you said didn't
2:23:39happen Okay I said
2:23:43Happ okay but it's why you're not saying
2:23:45that's important here
2:23:47you were part of setting this plan in
2:23:50motion
2:23:52right you were behind
2:23:54this
2:23:56right you have to get it off your chest
2:23:59and it's killing you get it off your
2:24:02chest and we're going to talk it out
2:24:03here we're going to understand and we're
2:24:05going to get this pressure off you
2:24:07because that's what you need right
2:24:10now do the right thing now J we already
2:24:13know you're not going to surprise me
2:24:15here okay I already know what the answer
2:24:19is I can't let I can't stand to see you
2:24:22go through this any
2:24:24longer you've been a physical wreck
2:24:26because you know that you haven't been
2:24:28truthful with us a lot of things that
2:24:30you said are true but there's so many
2:24:31more that aren't and you're leaving so
2:24:33much information out we know that you
2:24:36have to sit there and ask yourself yes
2:24:38he knows Bill knows everyone
2:24:44knows but what you have to do now always
2:24:47always get the strength in you to tell
2:24:50us why it
2:24:52happened I have some pretty good reasons
2:24:54there why it happened like I to me it
2:24:58was a form of abuse
2:25:00here because you can't do that to a
2:25:02person you can't this is
2:25:05Canada we're in the 21st century
2:25:08here you cannot take everything out of a
2:25:12person you can have expectations for
2:25:14your kids but you can't expect them to
2:25:16do everything the way you want it okay
2:25:20it's just like your dad said about
2:25:22fixing everybody else's home but not
2:25:24fixing his own okay it's the same with
2:25:26you okay he was trying to make a future
2:25:30for you bigger than it should have been
2:25:33and in the process of his love for you
2:25:36he made the mistake of actually pushing
2:25:38you
2:25:44away right
2:25:47all his good
2:25:49intentions what happened all his good
2:25:52intentions went the other way because he
2:25:55made too high of expectations on a young
2:25:58woman we know that
2:26:01Jen you know
2:26:03that and Now's the Time to get it out in
2:26:06the open
2:26:08here right you know the importance of
2:26:12telling the truth when it really
2:26:13counts and you know what it does to you
2:26:16as a as a person when you have to deny
2:26:18things that you know are
2:26:21true
2:26:24right it doesn't feel good does
2:26:26it Jen it doesn't feel good to have
2:26:30secrets does it no you have to let me
2:26:34know what happened here
2:26:38okay okay but you were
2:26:41involved right that's the part we
2:26:45need okay we need to hear that from you
2:26:48because we know you
2:26:51were we're going to talk this out and
2:26:53figure out what
2:26:56happened I'm going to make it easy on
2:26:58you
2:27:00Jen all you have to do is tell me that
2:27:03you were involved
2:27:06right I'm right aren't I you know what
2:27:11we know
2:27:12it it's plain as
2:27:15day I'm 100% % correct here I wouldn't
2:27:19be sitting here saying this if it wasn't
2:27:22Jen
2:27:29okay we have to get through this you
2:27:32have to get through
2:27:35it yes people came into your host that
2:27:38night yes that part's
2:27:40true the descriptions you've given
2:27:44you've held back you haven't been
2:27:46straight forward okay I know that okay
2:27:50no you haven't okay we know that okay
2:27:51let's get it out on the table here Jen
2:27:54okay it's not true okay you were
2:27:59involved in
2:28:00this
2:28:02right you knew before that night that
2:28:05this was going to happen I'm going to
2:28:07make that easy on you that's a true
2:28:09statement
2:28:11right you knew before that night that
2:28:13they were
2:28:14coming right
2:28:20that's all I need Jen let's get the
2:28:22truth out here
2:28:24now you knew before they came that they
2:28:27were coming
2:28:30right
2:28:36right be honest with me
2:28:41Jen give me
2:28:45that
2:28:49right you knew before they got there
2:28:51that they were
2:28:53coming
2:28:56right now the good thing is here that
2:28:58you didn't actually shoot
2:29:00anybody that's a positive in this
2:29:03situation cuz you couldn't do
2:29:06that you're not that type of
2:29:08person
2:29:10right and a lot of people do do
2:29:13that a lot of kids make the mistake of
2:29:15going out and
2:29:17doing it themselves okay you couldn't do
2:29:20that I know
2:29:24that I know that and that's a good
2:29:32thing but you did make a mistake because
2:29:35you got involved in
2:29:38it Jennifer you don't need to live with
2:29:40this pain
2:29:41anymore let it
2:29:45out
2:29:49look at me
2:29:51to let's be honest with each
2:29:54other I've been nothing but honest with
2:29:56you here today and I hope you can do the
2:29:58same with
2:30:00me I'm here to
2:30:09listen
2:30:12Jen it's not worth it
2:30:15anymore it's hurting you what
2:30:19happened I need to know the details I
2:30:21can't even
2:30:24say but I can tell you one thing is that
2:30:27we already know so you can't change
2:30:32that why did it stop I know you
2:30:37did but it got too far ahead of you
2:30:40right you didn't see you didn't think
2:30:43this far ahead did
2:30:45you
2:30:47but once they started once they came in
2:30:49you couldn't stop it could
2:30:51you could
2:30:54you
2:30:58Jen H I wanted it to stop I know why
2:31:02didn't they stop for
2:31:05you H I don't know who they
2:31:09were but you were part of the planning
2:31:13right you have to tell me that part and
2:31:15then we're going to work through it
2:31:18together you know what I'm saying you
2:31:21didn't want this you wanted to stop but
2:31:23youd have to prove that to me now
2:31:25because at the end of the day we have to
2:31:28stop this from happening to someone
2:31:30else
2:31:33right what happened to me Jen we're
2:31:37going to have to deal with it one step
2:31:39at the time okay I'm going to be honest
2:31:41with you I need to know what you
2:31:45did
2:31:49and then you and I are going to work
2:31:50through this together because the most
2:31:52important part is of this whole thing is
2:31:55that we do the right thing for your
2:31:57mom
2:31:59right I am her voice right now I'm
2:32:03working for your mom that's my
2:32:06job and I have to get to the bottom of
2:32:08this for your
2:32:10mom but I need you with me on it
2:32:15okay I want you to step back for a
2:32:19minute and think what would your mom
2:32:22want you to do right
2:32:25now and I know she's a good woman and
2:32:27she's taught you all your life that
2:32:31Jennifer no matter how bad it
2:32:35gets no matter what you've done wrong
2:32:37you can come to me and tell
2:32:40me and I'll understand
2:32:45right
2:32:48and you need to talk to
2:32:50me like you okay but let's get back to
2:32:54how they got there why they got there
2:32:57okay because we know that you help get
2:32:59this thing in order
2:33:02right that's what we need to start with
2:33:05then we're going to work through the
2:33:06case okay but we got to start what
2:33:10happen to
2:33:11me well I don't know at this point okay
2:33:15because I don't know what you're going
2:33:16to tell me other than that you were
2:33:18involved but I need to hear
2:33:22it okay but I can tell you one thing I'm
2:33:25going to sit here as long as it takes
2:33:28for you to get this off your chest
2:33:34okay you know what I mean do it what
2:33:40that okay you need to tell
2:33:43me how you got involved in this
2:33:47we know that
2:33:50Jen we need to talk about
2:33:53that
2:33:56okay you wanted it to stop then you have
2:33:58to stop this right
2:34:00now okay because this needs to stop you
2:34:03can't go around like this anymore
2:34:06hiding secrets from your own family they
2:34:09know Jen they know they're not going to
2:34:12be
2:34:14surprised what they're looking for you
2:34:16to do right now is to do the right
2:34:19thing that's what I'm looking for that's
2:34:21what you're looking for
2:34:25right you know what what I tell people
2:34:27is just tell the
2:34:30truth okay and we're going to sit down
2:34:32here we're going to get to the bottom of
2:34:35it okay
2:34:37together
2:34:44okay can
2:34:48what
2:34:53happened how did it start and I'm
2:34:56talking before that day how did it start
2:34:59before that day how did this thing get
2:35:01in
2:35:03motion there was a plan ahead of time
2:35:05and I want to know about the
2:35:09plan you can do
2:35:11that
2:35:13okay be strong Jen
2:35:21K be strong
2:35:25here what you have to remember is that
2:35:28we're not offside here okay we know
2:35:31already that it happened there's
2:35:33absolutely no doubt that you were
2:35:35involved in this or we wouldn't be
2:35:37sitting here right now you've been
2:35:40waiting and wondering when the police
2:35:42were going to ask you or tell you this
2:35:45you thought it was going to happen from
2:35:46the last time you were here
2:35:53right stay with me
2:35:55again let's get through
2:36:02this you're sorry out now are you
2:36:06not are you sorry for what
2:36:10happened
2:36:13G you wish you could take it back
2:36:19Jen okay that's good to hear that's so
2:36:27positive you wish it didn't happen
2:36:32right that night you wish you'd never
2:36:35got this plan in motion
2:36:37right
2:36:41right you wish you never told anybody to
2:36:44do this right
2:36:53again you got to get it off your
2:37:14chest
2:37:20Jen I'm looking for the Jennifer that
2:37:22knows the right from
2:37:23wrong are you
2:37:26there yes okay sit up and let's
2:37:31talk okay I
2:37:33know this has been hell for you you have
2:37:37gone through hell for
2:37:39years all you were looking for is a
2:37:42break a chance to be on your own
2:37:46to make your own decisions to be
2:37:49Jen right that's all you were looking
2:37:51for
2:37:54right
2:37:56right you felt cornered you felt like
2:37:59you didn't have any other options
2:38:04right
2:38:06Jen you didn't have another option did
2:38:08you at the time you felt like this was
2:38:11the only thing you could
2:38:14do but once it started that night you
2:38:17wish you could have stopped it so much
2:38:22right
2:38:26Ken you wish you could have stopped
2:38:38it how did it start
2:38:44again
2:38:49look at me how did it
2:38:57start what was your
2:39:01plan let's just go through the plan that
2:39:03you had okay let's start
2:39:07there we know that you weren't the one
2:39:10that pulled the trigger we know
2:39:12that and we know that you would have you
2:39:14could have stopped this old thing we
2:39:16know
2:39:18that but we also know that you were
2:39:20involved from the
2:39:22start
2:39:27okay and what this all
2:39:30was was a lot this effort to live your
2:39:34own life to be your own person to make
2:39:38your own
2:39:39decisions
2:39:41right it would happen to anybody in the
2:39:44same circumstances
2:39:49now I do a lot of
2:39:52reading and over 300 kids in North
2:39:56America every
2:39:58year are
2:40:03involved and their parents' deaths
2:40:09okay and when we look into those cases
2:40:13there's always a common factor
2:40:17that those kids have had to live up to
2:40:21expectations that weren't
2:40:23reasonable that they weren't being
2:40:26treated the way human being should be
2:40:32treated the host rules were just so out
2:40:34a
2:40:36whack and you know that because look at
2:40:39all your
2:40:40friends look at all the people around
2:40:42you does anyone else have a
2:40:44curfew for nine o'clock at 24 years of
2:40:50age
2:40:52Ken do you know anybody else with those
2:40:55expectations yes or
2:40:58no
2:40:59h yes or
2:41:01no do you know anyone that
2:41:05has to be under the pressure that you're
2:41:09under
2:41:11no I myself don't know of anybody and I
2:41:14investigate these all the time I've
2:41:16never seen someone under 24 years of age
2:41:19that has to have gone through what
2:41:21you've gone
2:41:23through the taking of the love of her
2:41:26life out of her
2:41:28life the decisions to make her own
2:41:36decisions you had no choice here Jen I
2:41:39know
2:41:43that and anybody else in your situation
2:41:46would have done the exact same
2:41:47thing the only thing different is I
2:41:50would say that they'd have done it a lot
2:41:52earlier they would have looked for a way
2:41:55out you've tried
2:41:58everything you've told them no one
2:42:03listened they didn't listen
2:42:09Jeff
2:42:13now I want you to ask I want I want you
2:42:15to answer a simple question for me okay
2:42:18can you do that look at me for a sec
2:42:20here look at me for a
2:42:23sec I have a simple question for
2:42:28you I just want to
2:42:31hear
2:42:33yes
2:42:37okay you knew this was going to happen
2:42:41right
2:42:44again
2:42:54Jennifer let's work through this
2:42:56together
2:43:03okay it's okay you made a
2:43:07mistake you made a
2:43:11mistake that you can't
2:43:13change when you can change CH the fact
2:43:16that you're not going to keep making
2:43:17these
2:43:19mistakes right you don't want to keep
2:43:22making these mistakes do you can you
2:43:25want to be a part of the solution not
2:43:27the
2:43:28problem do you want to be a part of the
2:43:30solution
2:43:33here
2:43:35again
2:43:40okay when did you first start planning
2:43:44this
2:43:47when did you first plan
2:43:50this just give me a
2:44:02date
2:44:03yeah when did you first start planning
2:44:11this when was the final straw what was
2:44:14the final
2:44:17that's what this is all
2:44:25about what was the final thing that did
2:44:42it Ken you want to be a good person
2:44:45person
2:44:47here okay and you know when a good
2:44:50person makes a mistake they have to face
2:44:53that mistake
2:44:56right
2:45:00right what do you think should happen I
2:45:02don't
2:45:03know what would you like to see happen
2:45:06in this
2:45:10case what's that Justice for your mom
2:45:13okay so
2:45:15so to get that
2:45:18Justice we have to KNE the whole story
2:45:26right well one
2:45:29thing is that you're going to be J
2:45:33again
2:45:35right that I can promise you you're
2:45:37going to be a person making decisions
2:45:40for
2:45:44J
2:45:50you're going to prove to people that you
2:45:52know what the right thing to do is
2:45:54that's what is going to
2:45:56happen you're going to have the chance
2:45:59to explain to
2:46:03me why this got out of
2:46:05hand you know what I mean but that's
2:46:08where we have to start I can't make any
2:46:10promises to
2:46:11you okay you know that
2:46:15but I can promise I'm going to sit here
2:46:17and listen and we're going to get
2:46:19Justice for your
2:46:20moment that's what I can promise you
2:46:24we're going to get Justice for your
2:46:27moment I want to work together with you
2:46:29to get it though that's the only
2:46:32way
2:46:35right you can understand that we have to
2:46:39work together now Jen we can't be on
2:46:41opposite sides here there's going to be
2:46:43Justice for your for your mom it has to
2:46:47be a
2:46:51partnership you and I have to work
2:46:54together and we'll get
2:46:58that
2:47:00okay so how did this
2:47:13start yeah
2:47:19do it for your
2:47:20mom that's all this is
2:47:23about I led you in all these
2:47:28statements
2:47:31okay
2:47:32and you know I know what the truth is
2:47:35and I know that you loved your mother
2:47:36and I've told everybody that I said the
2:47:39worst thing about this whole thing is
2:47:41that poor girl loved her
2:47:43mom but she got involved over her
2:47:49head and every word you heard from your
2:47:51mom it affected you I know this is the
2:47:54whole worst thing about this whole
2:47:59thing and you give anything just to talk
2:48:01to her one more time
2:48:05right but she needs to
2:48:08understand what happened what went wrong
2:48:13here okay
2:48:15so I want you to pretend that I am your
2:48:19mom and get it off your
2:48:22chest I want you to think of you telling
2:48:25your mom what went
2:48:29wrong
2:48:31okay and then we're going to get Justice
2:48:34For a
2:48:34Moment are we going to do it
2:48:37together
2:48:42okay again can we work together
2:48:45together can you and I work together on
2:48:50this okay that's this is a plan that
2:48:54went wrong okay you had a plan you have
2:48:56to tell me about that
2:48:58plan then we're going to work through
2:49:00the rest of it okay so we have to start
2:49:03with
2:49:04you okay because you got those people
2:49:07there okay you set this in motion okay
2:49:11we have to know how that happened then
2:49:13we're going to figure out together
2:49:16okay all
2:49:19right that's what your mom wants right
2:49:21now she's watching us here she's
2:49:24wondering is Jen going to make the right
2:49:26decision here is Jen after all of this
2:49:29going to come out on top doing the right
2:49:31thing is she going to be truthful now
2:49:34because this really all these other
2:49:36things that you've done in your life you
2:49:38know
2:49:39what everybody's liing to their
2:49:42parents okay that's just life
2:49:46okay I have a daughter too and she's
2:49:48lied to
2:49:50me and it hurts as a parent but at the
2:49:52end of the day what do we want our kids
2:49:54to
2:49:55do we don't mind so much if they make a
2:49:58mistake but we don't want them to keep
2:50:01making the mistakes right Jen that's
2:50:04what it's all about that's someday
2:50:06you're going to be a parent and you're
2:50:08going to want the same thing for your
2:50:10kids
2:50:12right and you want to be able to say to
2:50:15a kid honestly that no matter what you
2:50:18can tell
2:50:21me and right now if your mom was sitting
2:50:24with me
2:50:26here that's all she would expect is that
2:50:28you tell
2:50:30Phil what went wrong
2:50:33here so that there can be
2:50:36Justice
2:50:38okay it goes beyond just yourself here
2:50:42okay we have to think of your
2:50:45mom
2:50:47okay she's the most important there's
2:50:49really nothing else for me that's more
2:50:52important I'm her voice here today
2:50:55that's who I work for okay do you know
2:50:58what I'm saying as a police officer I
2:51:01have to work for the people that don't
2:51:03have a voice
2:51:05anymore I have to sit and figure out
2:51:09what went wrong in every
2:51:11case in order that Justice can get done
2:51:15and that's what you want
2:51:17right because we both want the same
2:51:19thing
2:51:21Ken
2:51:23right okay where did this
2:51:26start take your
2:51:28time I want to talk about what happened
2:51:31before that night even came that's what
2:51:33we need to talk about
2:51:38okay what happened before that
2:51:43night
2:51:45come with you to here to
2:51:47here we're going to figure it out
2:51:49together okay let
2:51:56happen
2:52:09Okay be
2:52:12strong be strong for
2:52:36Mom I'm here for you Jen I'm here for
2:52:40your
2:52:43mom
2:52:48well you have to tell it's one of those
2:52:50situations you know what we know that
2:52:52what you did okay but you have to be
2:52:55able to explain to me what happened okay
2:52:58I can't tell you what's exactly going to
2:53:01happen to you okay it's like telling you
2:53:05something without knowing the facts
2:53:07right okay at this point I know 100%
2:53:10that you were involved and this was
2:53:13planned out ahead time
2:53:16okay but you need to tell me where
2:53:19things went with this
2:53:22okay it's the truth that's going to tell
2:53:25me what's going I can give you a better
2:53:27answer but if you don't give me that you
2:53:29know what I mean I don't want to lie to
2:53:31you here you know what I'm
2:53:37saying can you see what I'm saying Jen
2:53:41I'm not going to lie to
2:53:43yet
2:53:46but I I prefer to deal with this at one
2:53:48step at a time you need to get it out
2:53:50first and then we're going to sit down
2:53:52and we're going to discuss this so the
2:53:54justice for your mom gets done that's
2:53:57your priority isn't it but I told you
2:53:59description I remember okay but that's
2:54:02not everything okay you didn't you
2:54:05weren't straightforward with that okay
2:54:08you know that and I know that right you
2:54:10didn't give us everything you
2:54:12misdescribed got yes Jen Jen we're past
2:54:16that okay but what I said is what I
2:54:18remember about them like okay how I
2:54:20remembered them okay but it's impossible
2:54:23because we have another witness your dad
2:54:26was right there okay and there's no way
2:54:30that you could get those descriptions
2:54:31mixed up okay we know that okay so let's
2:54:34not go there let's go with what we can
2:54:37deal with
2:54:39okay what I need to deal with though is
2:54:42okay you did not not pull the trigger
2:54:46right let's deal with what you didn't do
2:54:50okay right you weren't a part of that
2:54:55right that's positive to know okay but
2:54:59we need to know what you were involved
2:55:01in and what you weren't involved in now
2:55:04we know that you
2:55:06didn't shoot anybody that's a positive
2:55:10right you could never do that could you
2:55:16no
2:55:19but before that night ever
2:55:23happened you knew it was going to happen
2:55:25right let's start there that's what we
2:55:28need to talk facts here okay that's I
2:55:32don't want to get into an argument about
2:55:34what happened that night because it
2:55:36happened okay
2:55:39right and you wish you could have
2:55:41stopped it is that true or not or you
2:55:43just saying that to me if I could stop
2:55:45it I would have stopped it
2:55:49okay did you try to stop it that night
2:55:52yes how I wanted to go be with my
2:55:55parents I wanted to go be with
2:55:58them okay I understand
2:56:00that
2:56:02okay but this all started off with the
2:56:06decisions that you made okay those guys
2:56:09didn't show up there to take your
2:56:11money okay we all know that they came
2:56:13there
2:56:15to do what they did to shoot your
2:56:18parents okay we know that okay and they
2:56:22didn't get there
2:56:23randomly okay they just didn't decide
2:56:25that we're going to show up here
2:56:27tonight and pick this house randomly
2:56:30okay this was set in
2:56:32motion before that night
2:56:35okay and I'm asking you to be
2:56:38responsible here in your answers
2:56:43Jen
2:56:44you couldn't stop it once it start I
2:56:46appreciate
2:56:47that
2:56:51okay
2:56:54right but what I'm going to say to you
2:56:57is that before it even happened is where
2:57:01you made your bad decision right you got
2:57:04those people to come to your
2:57:06house the plan that you put in
2:57:09motion
2:57:12okay so that's what we have to deal with
2:57:16here okay now do you want Justice or not
2:57:20for
2:57:21Mom okay look at me then cuz I'm going
2:57:25to get it for you and we have to do it
2:57:28together okay tell
2:57:31me how this
2:57:36started because that's what you haven't
2:57:38told us Jen you left that part
2:57:42out okay okay that's the part I want to
2:57:45hear that's the part that's going to get
2:57:47us Justice
2:57:49here
2:57:51okay then we can work through the rest
2:57:53of it you can help us with the rest of
2:57:56it after
2:57:57that you want to help
2:57:59us Jen yes
2:58:03okay I'm glad to hear you say
2:58:06that
2:58:08okay so you need to tell
2:58:10me how you made this
2:58:12plan
2:58:19okay that's all that's missing here the
2:58:22rest we know what happened I'm I don't
2:58:25need you to tell me what happened in
2:58:27that house I already
2:58:28know okay I'm not going to go through
2:58:32that
2:58:33again
2:58:35okay what happened that night was
2:58:38unfortunate okay that but what's
2:58:42happened after that to you you it's
2:58:44destroyed you this whole
2:58:50thing
2:58:56right what are you going to do now Jen
2:59:00to make this
2:59:02right that's what you're faced
2:59:06with and you can help
2:59:12us
2:59:17you just have to be brave here you have
2:59:20to be
2:59:21brave you have to actually really want
2:59:24Justice for your mom okay then you're
2:59:26going to have to show me you can't just
2:59:29say the words you got to mean it
2:59:33okay now how did this get started
2:59:42Jen
2:59:52go
3:00:12ahead what did you do that you wish you
3:00:14didn't do
3:00:16now tell me
3:00:22that what things did you do that you
3:00:24wish you didn't
3:00:42do
3:00:51okay
3:00:52John what did you do you wish you didn't
3:00:57do that's going to help us
3:01:12here
3:01:42for
3:02:12e
3:02:39okay okay you can tell
3:02:42me
3:03:12for
3:03:35you're sorry heard
3:03:42you
3:03:48were supposed to take
3:03:50you
3:03:54why
3:03:57okay so you're supposed to take the
3:03:59whole family out no just
3:04:02me what went wrong I don't
3:04:08know okay so tell me how that happened
3:04:12then
3:04:16okay it was supposed to be
3:04:19you is that right okay how was it
3:04:22supposed to happen
3:04:24then
3:04:30H
3:04:33okay what
3:04:36happened know why did it change I don't
3:04:40know okay what do you know
3:04:44how come it was supposed to be
3:04:48you cuz I didn't want to be here anymore
3:04:51why not a disappointment okay he made
3:04:55some mistakes but nothing that couldn't
3:04:58be corrected
3:05:00right
3:05:04H okay so how did this play out
3:05:12then
3:05:15how did it
3:05:18start what was the plan
3:05:26then
3:05:28can you have to help me here we need
3:05:31that Justice for Mom now right it wasn't
3:05:33supposed to be mom is that what you're
3:05:35telling me yeah okay what about your dad
3:05:40I supposed to be that was supposed to be
3:05:43me
3:05:43okay why was it supposed to be
3:05:46you so everyone could be free from
3:05:52me
3:05:53okay so why did it happen this way then
3:05:57I don't know okay how did they get
3:06:01there I don't know you knew they were
3:06:04coming though
3:06:06right because you said it was supposed
3:06:09to be you right so what had you done
3:06:12ahead of time to make them come there
3:06:14what
3:06:16was what did you tell them to
3:06:23do
3:06:28then let's work this out okay let's work
3:06:30it out for a
3:06:42moment why was it supposed to be
3:06:45you everyone could be free from me I was
3:06:50the disappointment in everything okay
3:06:53but why did it have to happen this
3:07:00way
3:07:04yeah CU I tried suicide
3:07:10I come on
3:07:14what did you
3:07:19do I couldn't do
3:07:22it
3:07:24okay so then how did we get to this
3:07:30point you told these guys to come and
3:07:33kill
3:07:40you yeah yeah okay so who did you
3:07:49tell what did you tell
3:07:53them what did you want
3:07:57done
3:07:59how it
3:08:01matter
3:08:03okay so who did you get to do this
3:08:11then you have to tell tell me again I
3:08:15don't know who he is I just got his
3:08:18number okay and what's his number I
3:08:22don't memorize
3:08:24it where can we find
3:08:26it on the cell
3:08:29phone on on the other cell on the Bell
3:08:32cell phone on the Bell cell
3:08:35phone where's that phone now I don't
3:08:37know what it's un
3:08:40credit okay and how did you get a hold
3:08:42of best
3:08:47person and what did you say to
3:08:56him supposed to happen like this okay I
3:08:59appreciate that how did it happen how
3:09:02did they get
3:09:03there I don't know how they got there
3:09:06what was your
3:09:09request come in and take me up
3:09:16how would they know who you
3:09:31were the only girl in the
3:09:36house and what did you discuss with this
3:09:41person
3:09:52I have
3:09:53money and to come take me out and
3:09:58I and how much was he going to charge
3:10:00for it
3:10:04then
3:10:09okay and that's what you gave them
3:10:14okay now the guy you spoke to on the
3:10:17phone's the guy that showed up and you
3:10:18gave the money to I don't know if it
3:10:20that was the same guy I've never met him
3:10:22before okay what was did he say his name
3:10:27was this is the call
3:10:30homeboy okay
3:10:33home how did you get his number to make
3:10:36this call in the first
3:10:41place
3:10:48okay which
3:10:51one I can't find anymore what's his name
3:10:56I don't
3:10:57know so that that black guy the Rick guy
3:11:02that's Andrew's
3:11:03friend he set you up with this
3:11:08guy so when you had those meetings what
3:11:10did you ask
3:11:11him what did you tell Rick you need
3:11:15it I wanted to be shot or
3:11:22killed what did he
3:11:27say
3:11:30number okay so when did you make that
3:11:39call month ago month ago
3:11:44okay how did you what did you
3:11:58discuss just to make sure I had the
3:12:00money and
3:12:02my okay
3:12:06and you had to tell him what you wanted
3:12:08though I told him that I wanted to be to
3:12:12and did he think that was something
3:12:14crazy said are you sure that's what you
3:12:17want and I said yes cuz I don't think
3:12:19many people get that
3:12:21request do
3:12:23you no but that's what I wanted and he
3:12:26asked me over and over just to me sure I
3:12:28was shirt and I said have your sure okay
3:12:30so what did you ask him to do
3:12:34then come take me out in the
3:12:37me
3:12:41okay why why did they do it when you
3:12:45were um when your parents were there
3:12:50then never alone in
3:12:54nighttime
3:12:58okay so that meeting you had with Rick
3:13:01you told him what you wanted no I just
3:13:04said that I wanted if you knew anybody
3:13:06who could take care of something that I
3:13:08needed that that I wanted to be
3:13:11killed he said what there the
3:13:15number did he have the number with him
3:13:17that day yes okay and that was the first
3:13:22meeting
3:13:25meeting okay what happened with the
3:13:28first meeting nothing I said we just got
3:13:30to know each
3:13:31other
3:13:33okay when you had the first meeting with
3:13:36them why did you have the first
3:13:38meeting like I said he was a roommate of
3:13:40a friend of mine and that they were
3:13:42having problems with
3:13:53rent okay so you phone them up and have
3:13:57another meeting is that the meeting that
3:14:00someone saw you
3:14:02at and who was it that saw you
3:14:05there I don't know my uncle told me that
3:14:09another person that saw me there was a
3:14:11black person okay and was that black
3:14:13person Rick I guess were were you with
3:14:17any other black guy there no so you know
3:14:20him as Rick yep okay and you told him
3:14:24what that day
3:14:26then if he knew anybody who could help
3:14:29me take care of a drug that I wanted to
3:14:31be killed okay and he said what call
3:14:35this number okay did he write it down
3:14:38yes where's that number now I put I I
3:14:42put it into my phone and then I threw
3:14:44the paper
3:14:45out okay what was the number you put in
3:14:49your phone I don't memorize the number
3:14:51it was just on my
3:14:53phone was that uh what can you remember
3:14:56by that number though had a eight and a
3:14:59five in it what did it start
3:15:04with 416 or 64
3:15:067 don't remember I just remember the
3:15:09middle numbers had an eight in it and
3:15:12about
3:15:13five like eight five
3:15:16s just run me eight because no one else
3:15:19I have had an eight okay and what phone
3:15:23is that number in then on the Bell line
3:15:26the same
3:15:28line okay you put it in your phone
3:15:31though which phone did you put it in it
3:15:33was on a SIM card on the iPhone okay but
3:15:37did you still have to put it in like a
3:15:39friends or a calendar or I just kept it
3:15:43and then with the text just kept
3:15:45that okay so what's the text that you
3:15:48have what's
3:15:50that he sent what up and what did you
3:15:53send
3:15:55back
3:15:56[Music]
3:15:58that's okay then
3:16:01what said he called me once or twice
3:16:04just basically
3:16:06just want to need to know when that was
3:16:09it okay so when did did you first talk
3:16:13to the
3:16:15guy don't remember anymore where did you
3:16:18meet him I never met
3:16:22him what's his name what did he go by
3:16:25home
3:16:29homeboy did he have an
3:16:35accent what did he say he would do he
3:16:39just like when take care of it lety be
3:16:41me
3:16:42so your specific request to him was
3:16:46what come me make sure you K me and what
3:16:50did he say he like okay let me do me let
3:16:54me do me what does that
3:16:58mean let me do it my way
3:17:04okay isn't it odd that somebody would
3:17:06give her a request like
3:17:08that to kill themselves he asked me and
3:17:12he's still going to charge you to do
3:17:17that okay so then what happened you said
3:17:20you talked a few other times what about
3:17:22the other
3:17:26talks
3:17:28when I was just asking him when that was
3:17:31it okay so when
3:17:41then
3:17:43just like whenever I have
3:17:46time whenever I can get
3:17:49people okay well he's not going to show
3:17:51up at your host randomly you're going to
3:17:53have to know exactly when he's
3:17:55coming so how did that play
3:17:58out he texted me game on Pardon he
3:18:02texted me game on when did you get that
3:18:11text
3:18:15don't remember the time sometime in the
3:18:17evening what day
3:18:20that okay so before they came in you had
3:18:24a text that said game on yeah okay and
3:18:27where did that come
3:18:31from pardon me
3:18:34what where did you send it
3:18:41from he had texed me with which was what
3:18:46that number I can't remember okay and
3:18:48what time did you get that game on Call
3:18:51I don't know
3:18:54time how many minutes before they came
3:18:59in okay let's get it out we're working
3:19:02through
3:19:04it how many minutes before I don't know
3:19:08I didn't even realize they were
3:19:11in
3:19:14okay but they did come
3:19:17in
3:19:19right how much
3:19:21before you heard anything maybe an hour
3:19:252
3:19:26hours so you were just waiting there for
3:19:28two hours I was watching
3:19:31TV okay so what time did you get the
3:19:33game on where were you when you saw that
3:19:35message
3:19:39first I watching TV with Adan okay so he
3:19:42was there did you tell him
3:19:46no who else knows about
3:19:53this Jen yes who else knows about
3:19:58this me and the people who did
3:20:01it
3:20:04okay and who are they I don't know who
3:20:07they are he just said let me do me and
3:20:10then that was it okay so he does come
3:20:13into the
3:20:14house and you're the obvious only young
3:20:17girl there
3:20:19right
3:20:21okay when he came to her your
3:20:27room what discussions did you have with
3:20:29the guy that came to your room the real
3:20:31discussions you had not what you told us
3:20:33where was the money and I showed him
3:20:35where the money was
3:20:37okay but he obviously said I'm here to
3:20:40do what you asked he never said anything
3:20:43like that what did he
3:20:45say just like hands behind your
3:20:54back so the money you gave him was
3:20:56payment for killing you yes is that he
3:21:01wanted 2,000 yes when did he give you
3:21:04that figure of
3:21:052,000 in one of our phone
3:21:07conversations okay what's that in one of
3:21:10our phone conversations okay so in all
3:21:13the phone conversations you had when was
3:21:15the first one that you had what
3:21:19month Jen this doesn't happen every day
3:21:21that you ask somebody to kill you
3:21:23so I honestly I don't
3:21:26remember okay I say you do remember
3:21:29you're going to have to remember when's
3:21:31the first
3:21:34time I really really don't
3:21:37remember okay
3:21:40September like from the first time you
3:21:43mentioned this to Rick when was that
3:21:45back in June
3:21:47right is that right something like that
3:21:50PO I mean spring summer sometimes yeah
3:21:53how come it took so
3:21:55long cuz I didn't know you didn't know
3:21:59what I'm
3:22:01sure so when did you confirm 100% you
3:22:04wanted it
3:22:07done and they accused me of doing
3:22:09something that I didn't do who
3:22:12okay which was
3:22:16what Daniel I didn't okay so when was
3:22:24that end of August
3:22:27maybe okay so you got in in contact with
3:22:31homeboy and said
3:22:33what I'd like you to come and think a
3:22:3724y old
3:22:40girl
3:22:42and he
3:22:43said okay I'll call you then
3:22:50what and
3:22:57then call me back and he's like are you
3:23:00sure he's like
3:23:02yes okay and then he's like okay then
3:23:05you just let me do me
3:23:08then he said let me do me yes which
3:23:12means what let let him do it his way
3:23:15okay did he discuss ways with you how he
3:23:17would do it no did you request any way
3:23:20for him to do it make sure no one else
3:23:23was
3:23:23around
3:23:26okay
3:23:28and did you tell them who lived in the
3:23:31house yes what did you tell them my
3:23:34can't the house okay and did you tell
3:23:37them where they are in the house no what
3:23:40rooms they're in no
3:23:42where they would
3:23:51be so when why didn't they do it the way
3:23:55you wanted I don't know I asked them I
3:23:57asked them to take me with my mom when
3:23:59they took them
3:24:08away I realize that but doesn't seem to
3:24:12make sense I know it doesn't make sense
3:24:14to me but that's that what it was
3:24:17supposed to
3:24:27be okay can you sit up for a minute
3:24:32John okay look at me look at
3:24:35me
3:24:37okay we have remember everything I told
3:24:40you about what I do for a
3:24:43living
3:24:44okay I'm an expert in determining truth
3:24:48and half truth okay what you've just
3:24:52told me is half the
3:24:54truth okay now what I do
3:24:59believe is that you went to
3:25:02somebody and I do believe that night you
3:25:05paid them the
3:25:07$2,000
3:25:09okay that's the true part
3:25:13okay
3:25:16right but what's not true is it was
3:25:19never for you okay Jen no okay you went
3:25:24to this person and you asked them to do
3:25:27a job and the job was for your parents
3:25:31okay that's what we got to get to here
3:25:33okay I know that's what really happened
3:25:35Jen okay that's what really happened
3:25:39okay so you've done good here
3:25:43you're telling me half the truth I'm
3:25:44going to get the other half out here
3:25:47okay that's the part that you need to
3:25:50get to
3:25:52now okay maybe you were supposed to be
3:25:55part of it but you definitely wanted
3:25:58your parents out of the picture Okay
3:26:00that was for sure okay so sit up and
3:26:04listen to me for a minute because this
3:26:05is important okay now
3:26:08listen because of how you've been
3:26:10treated for the last seven8 years of
3:26:13your
3:26:14life you no longer know how to tell the
3:26:17whole story the truth from the start
3:26:20okay you've been conditioned just to
3:26:22tell little bits of the truth and little
3:26:26bits about lies right that's what you've
3:26:29done for eight years now that's how
3:26:32you've lived it's an instinct now okay
3:26:36and that's part of your
3:26:36self-preservation that I talked about
3:26:38earlier okay and right now that's where
3:26:41we're at
3:26:43okay that's where we're at you did ask
3:26:47someone to come to the house Jen but it
3:26:49wasn't for you
3:26:52okay
3:26:53pardon it was supposed to be you asked
3:26:58them to do this job on your parents Jen
3:27:03okay let's be
3:27:05truthful okay nobody's going to come
3:27:07there and get the wrong people okay
3:27:11they're not going to tie you up and just
3:27:15kill your parents okay that's not going
3:27:18to happen that's not realistic okay that
3:27:21never
3:27:21happened okay they were there because
3:27:25you planned
3:27:26this they were there because you gave
3:27:29the order okay and I understand why you
3:27:32gave the order because you couldn't do
3:27:33it
3:27:34yourself okay that's good okay
3:27:38Jen okay but they were supposed to take
3:27:42your parents Jen and they did that
3:27:46part
3:27:48okay nobody needs if you wanted to kill
3:27:51yourself Jen you're not going to pay
3:27:53somebody $2,000 to do it I couldn't do
3:27:55it myself but there's other ways okay
3:28:00and if that was going to happen they
3:28:02could have taken you outside and done it
3:28:05anywhere it wouldn't matter would it
3:28:08okay there's no need to involve other
3:28:09people in this if you really wanted to
3:28:12die all they would have had to do is
3:28:15pull up beside you in a car and shoot
3:28:18you
3:28:19right he told me just to let him do him
3:28:22okay but you're not going to accept that
3:28:24okay you're not going to accept that
3:28:27he's just going to randomly do it
3:28:28someday okay there's other things that
3:28:31happened on in this case Jen okay you
3:28:34let them in the
3:28:35house you let them in we know
3:28:38that you went downstairs and you open
3:28:41that door for
3:28:42them we know
3:28:45that
3:28:48Ken You did leave the door open for them
3:28:50didn't
3:28:51you pardon yes yes and that's why you
3:28:55went downstairs earlier in the night
3:28:57right after your mom got home what did
3:29:00you
3:29:01do went down and said
3:29:04hello pretended to check the
3:29:08door and was it locked no
3:29:12you made sure it was unlocked
3:29:15yeah okay then
3:29:18what that's going saided to me she said
3:29:21I don't
3:29:26know okay so again we have some truth
3:29:29here that's good Jen we know all the
3:29:33along that you let them in okay we knew
3:29:36that I knew why you went downstairs
3:29:40okay that was done on purpose right you
3:29:43had to let them in
3:29:46right
3:29:48Jen okay now did they tell you to do
3:29:51that yes so what else did they tell you
3:29:53to do that was it just to make sure you
3:29:56had
3:29:57access okay so what was the agreement
3:30:03then what do you mean well I told you
3:30:06$2,000 and they were supposed to kill me
3:30:08and then they called me and made sure
3:30:09they they they had access okay so how
3:30:11did they do that though what was the
3:30:14question on the phone was it a text or a
3:30:17phone message text VIP access what does
3:30:20that mean I didn't know and then he said
3:30:22just make sure they can get in okay so
3:30:25you saw a message that said VIP access
3:30:28meaning they could get in okay and so
3:30:30what did you text back I didn't text
3:30:33them back I called them okay and what
3:30:35did you say I'm like what does that mean
3:30:37okay and what did they say make sure
3:30:39that there was a way in
3:30:41okay and what did you say would be the
3:30:43best way I didn't say I was just like
3:30:46front door and he was like yes okay all
3:30:50right
3:30:54so that's good Jen I appreciate that
3:30:57because again I already knew that's what
3:30:59happened okay your
3:31:02family is going to lock those doors at
3:31:04night right that's the routine so you
3:31:08went down and checked the door and made
3:31:09sure it was unlocked
3:31:11right she was going to check her before
3:31:12she went to bed anyway okay but she does
3:31:16go to bed till
3:31:17midnight right that's why I asked her
3:31:21okay did you say I checked the door no
3:31:24you didn't tell her no
3:31:27okay and so when you went back
3:31:31upstairs did you actually talk to
3:31:34Andrew or did you just say that no I
3:31:37really did talk it and the other guy Ed
3:31:41on the
3:31:42phone okay in between those
3:31:47calls did they call
3:31:50you yes or so how did that play out
3:31:55where between those calls did those
3:31:56calls come this
3:31:59one tell me how that happened that
3:32:02that's when they got the text that
3:32:03that's when I got the text the I access
3:32:06okay so you were talking to Andrew and
3:32:08it had finished M and then what
3:32:11they texted me like VIP asset test when
3:32:14I hung up and I asked I called and asked
3:32:16them okay so you hung up from Andrew or
3:32:19from from Andrew
3:32:22okay and you phoned them yes and said
3:32:24what do you mean yes and they said make
3:32:27sure it was a way in okay and you said
3:32:31front doors okay and
3:32:34then I went down to the front doors okay
3:32:37and what did you do made sure if they
3:32:40were locked yet when you weren't okay so
3:32:42how could you
3:32:45tell okay so you checked the what did
3:32:48you check the Lo okay and did you kind
3:32:51of turn it and turn it back or how I
3:32:54don't
3:32:56remember when you left that door you
3:32:58were satisfied that it was open
3:33:00yeah okay
3:33:04then what
3:33:08happened then everything else I said
3:33:11happened I went back to my room I called
3:33:12Ed I didn't even know when they came
3:33:15in okay but you they came up to your
3:33:19room or somebody came up to your well
3:33:22like I said I heard my mom call from my
3:33:24dad and that's when I went out yeah and
3:33:27what
3:33:30happened and then he was there standing
3:33:32there okay give me one sec
3:33:39okay
3:33:48okay again sorry about that
3:33:52okay so we get to the
3:33:56point
3:33:58where
3:34:00um you get the text
3:34:03message uh you go down you do the door
3:34:06you go back upstairs and what do you do
3:34:09p
3:34:11okay why do you call
3:34:13him what I usually do
3:34:16okay what were you expecting to happen
3:34:21next I honestly I don't
3:34:25know because he didn't tell me anything
3:34:27he just let me do me I didn't know how
3:34:29he was going to do anything okay what
3:34:30else did he say on the phone like how
3:34:33like he must have told you we're around
3:34:34the cor corner or something
3:34:37no he tell you how long no okay but it
3:34:41was on for that night he had game on on
3:34:43the text yeah okay what did you do with
3:34:46those text
3:34:51messages okay and the phone that you
3:34:53were using were you using two phones
3:34:55that night yeah okay you have to sit up
3:34:57because I can't hear you here you were
3:34:59using two phones okay so the phone you
3:35:02were talking to with Andrew on was what
3:35:05phoneone and the one you were talking to
3:35:08them on was what the iPhone the iPhone
3:35:11okay and
3:35:14then uh did you ever talk to them on the
3:35:17Samsung never
3:35:19okay
3:35:22now
3:35:23um what
3:35:27next everything else that happen next
3:35:31week okay now look at me
3:35:36Jen you're almost there okay
3:35:41most of what happened in the house
3:35:43happened okay we know that okay you gave
3:35:47a description of a black guy with dreads
3:35:49there was no black guy with dreads in
3:35:51there okay we know that okay we know
3:35:54that because your dad's not going to
3:35:56miss that okay he gave a good
3:35:58description of the guy that you were
3:35:59with and he's not even black so tell me
3:36:02about
3:36:02that honestly honestly Jen that's
3:36:06exactly you got to be up front here okay
3:36:09because obviously you didn't want to
3:36:10tell us everything because there was a
3:36:12plan he didn't tell us that that night
3:36:14either okay so everything else that
3:36:16happened after that is that guy with
3:36:18dreadlocks was never there okay so why
3:36:21did you say
3:36:22that but that's what I remember okay you
3:36:25can't mix that guy out with the
3:36:27description your dad gave he's not even
3:36:28the same
3:36:30color right but that's tell me why you
3:36:34said guy with dreadlocks because that's
3:36:36who I because there was no guy with
3:36:38dreadlocks there Ken
3:36:41that's the problem here
3:36:44okay that's the problem okay now the
3:36:48issue here is this and you have to look
3:36:50at me okay your dad wasn't supposed to
3:36:53be a
3:36:54witness okay that's where this whole
3:36:57thing went wrong okay your dad wasn't
3:37:00supposed to live okay and when he did
3:37:03live he was able to tell us what really
3:37:06happened that night okay which was in
3:37:09conflict with what you told us
3:37:12okay seriously in Conflict okay you had
3:37:15all these things about number two going
3:37:17upstairs and everything else number two
3:37:19was down there with a gun on your mom
3:37:21number three was down he didn't okay we
3:37:24know that never happened okay I don't
3:37:25want to argue about it okay I'm not
3:37:27going to argue about but I've already
3:37:28gone this far you've gone this far but
3:37:30that doesn't mean okay what now let's
3:37:33get it all straight no because you this
3:37:35is a total half and half we're we're
3:37:39there again just just like the school
3:37:41just like everything else this is how
3:37:44you deal with pressure okay you give
3:37:47half and you hold half you give half and
3:37:51you don't give the rest of the true
3:37:53facts okay that's your stress mechanism
3:37:56okay that's what you've been trained to
3:37:58do since you were 15 years old okay
3:38:02because your parents could never accept
3:38:04the
3:38:05truth that's why this whole thing
3:38:07happened okay no matter how honest you
3:38:09try to be with them
3:38:11okay they didn't they always wanted more
3:38:13it was never good enough it was never
3:38:16good enough that you were a good kid
3:38:18okay and that you loved figure skating
3:38:20and piano and if that's all you ever did
3:38:22that's good enough but it wasn't good
3:38:24enough for
3:38:25them right
3:38:29again so what happened here I'll tell
3:38:31you what
3:38:34happened you made a specific
3:38:37request and the job was for your mom Mom
3:38:40and Dad okay nobody's going to come in
3:38:43there and do the wrong
3:38:44job okay nobody's going to do
3:38:48that they came you paid and they did
3:38:53what they were supposed to do okay if it
3:38:57was supposed to be for you you would
3:38:58have said that to them okay you never
3:39:02did okay this was always for two people
3:39:07okay this was for about Mom and Dad
3:39:10because they had taken things too far in
3:39:12your life Jen
3:39:15okay that's what it's all about and you
3:39:17and I have to get that out right now
3:39:20okay so sit up for a minute let's get
3:39:23this final piece out okay cuz that's the
3:39:25only mistake you made in this whole
3:39:28thing you got fed up and you went out
3:39:31and did something about it okay this was
3:39:35all about
3:39:37self-preservation you had no choices
3:39:40this is the only choice you felt you had
3:39:42left Jen I know that's why you feel so
3:39:46bad about this okay is because okay no
3:39:51Jen you have to be honest with me here I
3:39:54am being honest with you Jen okay it's
3:39:57all going to come out okay and the last
3:39:59thing that you want to happen later okay
3:40:03is for people to say that she didn't
3:40:05tell the whole truth okay this is your
3:40:07one chance what I do remember okay but
3:40:10you made a request Jen and this was a
3:40:13planned request okay and the
3:40:16plan was for your parents okay Jen you
3:40:20have to be honest about this is the only
3:40:22thing that's in contention here okay you
3:40:25made the mistake okay everybody
3:40:27understands everybody in this Police
3:40:30Department feels sorry for you I can
3:40:32tell you that right now okay because
3:40:34they've seen what you're going through
3:40:36it's so obvious okay that all this
3:40:39tension they put out basically this is
3:40:41like a volcano all right and at one
3:40:45point it was just too much and you
3:40:47erupted okay and you made a bad decision
3:40:50okay and once you hired this guy there
3:40:53was no turning
3:40:56back it was supposed to be yourself Jen
3:41:00no it would not happen that way okay it
3:41:05would not happen that way now in the
3:41:07original story you said that you hid
3:41:09your cell phone okay if it was for you
3:41:13you wouldn't have hid your cell phone
3:41:15that would have never
3:41:17happened so it's in Conflict it's not
3:41:20hitting it's just I I put it there
3:41:22naturally it's what I naturally do okay
3:41:25but you said
3:41:26on tape that you HD it there and that
3:41:29they didn't know about
3:41:31it that's your language not mine Jen
3:41:35which tells me that you intended to use
3:41:38it sometime to get out of there
3:41:41as a rescue
3:41:42mechanism okay
3:41:47so I already know that you planned this
3:41:50Jen and it wasn't for
3:41:52yourself we know that Jen you know that
3:41:57I know you don't feel good about it and
3:41:59I know you've thought many times that
3:42:01you would not like to be here
3:42:04okay but who caused that why did you
3:42:07feel like that okay
3:42:10I'll tell you why it's because of the
3:42:12way you've been treated all these
3:42:14years you didn't bring that on yourself
3:42:17they brought it on
3:42:19you the depression you were cutting
3:42:22yourself and they didn't even pick up on
3:42:25it all they wanted was so much success
3:42:27out of you they were not even looking at
3:42:30you as a
3:42:31person they were looking for a success
3:42:34story instead of just
3:42:37saying whatever Jen wants is what's good
3:42:40for
3:42:42us whatever she's happy with as long as
3:42:46she's happy in her life I'm happy with
3:42:48it if she wants to work at East Side
3:42:51Marios for the rest of her life that's
3:42:54fine if she wants to be a piano teacher
3:42:56that's
3:42:58great if she wants to continue figur
3:43:00grading that's
3:43:05wonderful you know what I'm saying Jen I
3:43:09know what you're saying this is what I
3:43:10know and okay so the only thing that you
3:43:13haven't told me is that you put the plan
3:43:17in motion for your parents okay and
3:43:24now you would wish you never did and
3:43:27that's good okay it's good that you feel
3:43:31sorry about it because you do if you
3:43:34could go back you wouldn't have gave
3:43:35that plan to them would you I knew what
3:43:38they were going to do I would look at me
3:43:41you knew what they were going to do okay
3:43:44listen let's be rational here for a
3:43:46minute
3:43:47okay nobody makes a plan to have
3:43:50themselves killed in that fashion
3:43:54okay nobody shows up at your house for
3:43:57no reason and kills the wrong
3:44:00people
3:44:01[Music]
3:44:02okay that's where we're at here
3:44:06okay that's what you're afraid you're
3:44:08afraid to say that you made that mistake
3:44:11don't be afraid Jen just tell the truth
3:44:14okay because we're getting into what's
3:44:15happened to you all your life
3:44:17okay I know exactly when and when you're
3:44:21not telling me exactly what happened
3:44:24okay you got to give us some credit here
3:44:28this is all that I do
3:44:30okay and you're halfway to telling the
3:44:34whole truth okay this is another case of
3:44:38making something up and hopes said
3:44:40somebody will listen and accept it okay
3:44:43I can't accept it okay you know that and
3:44:46I know
3:44:49that
3:44:51right I can't accept that when I know
3:44:53it's not true and I don't like to see
3:44:55you doing this to
3:44:58yourself you're just beating yourself up
3:45:00some more
3:45:01here okay
3:45:04Ken because I'm telling it to you but
3:45:07you say that it's contradicting and I
3:45:09don't want then why it doesn't make
3:45:11sense okay that someone if they if you
3:45:14wanted yourself killed okay they
3:45:16wouldn't do it in your house okay
3:45:18there's no reason to hide anything okay
3:45:21someone can just walk up to you and
3:45:23shoot you somewhere where you're by
3:45:25yourself and nobody knows about it and
3:45:27they walk away but I've never by
3:45:30myself okay at any time you can go out
3:45:34you were by yourself all day but they
3:45:37said that they can't do it in the
3:45:38daytime
3:45:44okay so you could walk out the front
3:45:46door and they could have shot you there
3:45:48and ran
3:45:50away like they didn't have to involve
3:45:52other people and that's why it doesn't
3:45:54make
3:45:57sense you could have walked out on the
3:45:59front porch and that have been the end
3:46:00of it I'm not supposed to leave the
3:46:02house okay but you've done it before
3:46:08right
3:46:11right they started watching me okay but
3:46:14that night you could have walked out
3:46:16that front door and nobody know the
3:46:18difference for two
3:46:20seconds my mother would know she was
3:46:22right right there okay but they could
3:46:24have came and done it
3:46:27okay but they didn't tell me how they
3:46:30were going to do it
3:46:32okay why would somebody shoot someone
3:46:36they didn't have to shoot I don't know I
3:46:38can't figure that out and actually not
3:46:40shoot the person they're supposed to
3:46:41shoot I don't know that's what I'm
3:46:42trying to figure out okay why didn't you
3:46:44tell us this that night
3:46:47then cuz I'm
3:46:49scared scared of what telling the truth
3:46:53yes that I wanted to
3:46:56die okay but listen if you wanted to die
3:46:59you would tell us everything because it
3:47:00one
3:47:02matter
3:47:03Jen if you really wanted to die you
3:47:06would tell us everything cuz it doesn't
3:47:07really matter right it does matter
3:47:10because the wrong person got hurt and my
3:47:13dad is
3:47:17suffering I appreciate that's what
3:47:19happened in the end but that's what was
3:47:22supposed to happen Okay the good thing
3:47:25about this is your dad did
3:47:27live okay he did
3:47:31live and that went against the
3:47:34plan okay he wasn't supposed to make it
3:47:36through and he did so that's a good
3:47:39thing
3:47:40right that's a positive in this
3:47:44situation
3:47:46right Jen my dad's hurt how can that be
3:47:49a positive okay but he's not dead is he
3:47:51no okay and this thing started out with
3:47:55him supposed to be dead Okay J there's
3:47:58just no doubt about that okay there's no
3:48:01doubt about
3:48:02that okay and you got to remember we're
3:48:06all over this case
3:48:08okay and when you say something that's
3:48:11going to contradict what other people
3:48:12tell us
3:48:15okay that the order was for Mom and Dad
3:48:18that's not going to look good is it when
3:48:20it comes from someone
3:48:23else
3:48:27right because we're going to solve this
3:48:29thing okay we already know what happened
3:48:33so I'm not in here guessing with
3:48:36you I already know what the order was
3:48:38from from
3:48:40you okay and I have to sit here with you
3:48:46and let you get that off your
3:48:49chest okay I know it's not easy and
3:48:53that's what's you're order with from me
3:48:55it was for me no it was for your parents
3:48:58Jen okay and that's hard to say I know
3:49:01that I know that's hard to say okay
3:49:04because that's not if you could make
3:49:07this decision over you would change it
3:49:10okay you would change
3:49:13it right of course if I knew who was
3:49:16going to get hurt of course I wouldn't
3:49:18Jen you knew who was going to get hurt
3:49:20that's the whole issue here okay that's
3:49:23the whole issue here that's all we're
3:49:25dealing with here okay from the start I
3:49:29told you that I know you were
3:49:31involved okay and it's beyond asking
3:49:33someone to kill
3:49:35you okay the order was for Mom and Dad
3:49:39okay
3:49:42the only mistake they made is they
3:49:44didn't get your dad okay yes they heard
3:49:47him okay yes he's injured but he's alive
3:49:51and that's a good
3:49:54thing and as I told you earlier this
3:49:57happens to 300 families a
3:49:59year
3:50:02300 and it's always because of the same
3:50:05thing
3:50:06Jen that people reach the end of their
3:50:10rope it's the last
3:50:12straw and they make a
3:50:15mistake and I agree once you put those
3:50:18Wheels in
3:50:20Motion you
3:50:23know it's hard to stop
3:50:26it it's very hard to stop
3:50:32it so let's get down to the bottom of
3:50:35this
3:50:36J you got to help me through the rest of
3:50:39of
3:50:40this
3:50:43okay
3:50:45now the only thing that's an issue here
3:50:52today is that you gave a request to
3:50:56these people for your parents and They
3:50:59carried it out okay you didn't do it
3:51:01that's a good thing okay you didn't
3:51:03shoot them you didn't hurt
3:51:06them your mistake was making a request
3:51:12right that's where you and I are at
3:51:14right now okay that's the only issue we
3:51:17need to talk
3:51:18about okay I'm not going to get into
3:51:20everything else because it's not even
3:51:23important
3:51:28okay but we need to see Justice done
3:51:31here and we need to do that together Jen
3:51:35okay and there's only one face to just
3:51:39Justice okay that's the face of
3:51:42truth right now we only have half that
3:51:45face okay I need to see the rest of it
3:51:49okay we're only halfway there okay you
3:51:52made the mistake of asking them to do it
3:51:55okay you asked them to do your parents
3:51:58that's it's as simple as that Jen okay
3:52:02and they did or they tried
3:52:05to
3:52:08okay but you're sorry that this happened
3:52:11right okay that's what the whole key is
3:52:14here everyone wants to know is is she
3:52:18sorry because everyone knows that you
3:52:20did it okay what they want to know is
3:52:23given a chance and turning back the
3:52:25clock to that day would you do it
3:52:28again no right this was a onetime
3:52:32mistake
3:52:33right
3:52:35Jen
3:52:37okay you gave them the plan for your
3:52:41parents
3:52:42right that's all I need to hear no Jen
3:52:46you did no and this is not going to go
3:52:49anywhere because I wanted them to kill
3:52:51me okay maybe you wanted that to happen
3:52:54as well okay and maybe things got so bad
3:52:58that that's how you feel okay but your
3:53:01parents were brought into this okay on
3:53:04your request yes Jen this was your
3:53:07request okay and that's what we have to
3:53:10deal with okay and that's what you're
3:53:12afraid of here today that's what you're
3:53:15afraid of no one's thinking bad of you
3:53:17here everybody understands what you went
3:53:20through okay and what you are going
3:53:22through okay but what people are looking
3:53:25for from this young woman today you know
3:53:26what they're looking for
3:53:29Jen to know that you actually are sorry
3:53:33okay that you're sorry that you made the
3:53:35request for your parents okay it wasn't
3:53:37for you we're past that okay I don't
3:53:39want to talk about that okay the request
3:53:42was for your parents and your parents
3:53:44only that's it okay that's what you put
3:53:49in motion that's what happened okay we
3:53:52know that okay at the end of the day you
3:53:56have to look at yourself and say when
3:53:58bill came to me with the answer did I
3:54:03deal with it okay because that's where
3:54:06people are going to be looking at you
3:54:07now from going to be saying what did she
3:54:10do when the police knew and confronted
3:54:12her with the
3:54:14truth did she face reality and admit the
3:54:17truth or did she run from
3:54:21it does she even care what happened of
3:54:24course what happened okay so you have to
3:54:26prove that now Jen because the only way
3:54:28you can prove it that you really care is
3:54:31that you admit that you made a mistake I
3:54:33did make a mistake but we have to get
3:54:36that on the table though and it's not
3:54:38about you you okay it's about them it's
3:54:41that simple okay it's not complicated
3:54:43okay is that what you want me to say but
3:54:45that's not how what happened tell me
3:54:46what happened you want me to tell I want
3:54:49you to tell me that you made the plan
3:54:51for your parents okay we're going to get
3:54:53to the rest of it anyways okay we
3:54:57already like I'm in here
3:54:59okay there's 20 other investigators on
3:55:02this case I'm only dealing with the
3:55:04truth as it regards to you okay there's
3:55:07a lot more things that you don't even
3:55:09know that I know that's why is you're
3:55:11not going to be able to tell me things
3:55:13okay that I don't know already okay so I
3:55:17will know when you're telling me the
3:55:18full truth I already know you made the
3:55:20plan so I can't just say okay yeah don't
3:55:23worry about it you made the plan for
3:55:24yourself when I know that's not true
3:55:26okay you got to know that I already have
3:55:28the answers okay or we wouldn't be
3:55:30sitting here okay so I do need you to
3:55:33tell me that you made the plan for your
3:55:35parents okay because that's what really
3:55:37happened Jen okay I'm not asking you to
3:55:40lie to me I'm just asking you to tell me
3:55:43that you made the plan for your parents
3:55:46that's where we're sitting here right
3:55:47now trying to deal with okay that's a
3:55:50big hurt for you okay because I know
3:55:54that you still have love it's like a
3:55:56LoveHate Thing and that's what happens
3:55:58in people's lives okay you love them to
3:56:01death or you can't live with them you
3:56:03can't live with the situation anymore
3:56:05okay that can happen in life it happens
3:56:08all the time okay and essentially you
3:56:11got forced into a corner here okay you
3:56:14didn't have any other
3:56:16choices 24 years old Jen and you're not
3:56:20allowed to make your own decisions a
3:56:23prisoner in your own house 9:00
3:56:30curfew again I'm just surprised it never
3:56:33happened before
3:56:35this everybody's going to understand
3:56:38that J
3:56:40but why they're going to understand it
3:56:42you know why they're going to understand
3:56:43it because that's the truth what people
3:56:47don't understand is when people tell
3:56:49half truths they recognize it right away
3:56:52they recognize that that's not what
3:56:53really
3:56:54happened okay that's not what really
3:56:56happened okay you've spent a lifetime
3:57:00trying to get around people and all that
3:57:03has ever done has hurt you more
3:57:06Jen you missed out on in education
3:57:10because you tried to fake it
3:57:14okay you missed out on things that made
3:57:16you want to kill
3:57:18yourself and you realize that and it
3:57:21reached a low point to the point where
3:57:24if you don't care about yourself you
3:57:26can't care about other
3:57:27people you what I mean you can't care
3:57:30for other people if you can't love
3:57:32yourself and that's where this got to
3:57:36Jen and I don't blame you
3:57:39but we need to understand this together
3:57:42right we need to have a resolution
3:57:48here
3:57:55okay
3:57:56stuck
3:58:00okay can we understand each other Jen
3:58:04okay you've told so much of the truth
3:58:06you're just not telling the final
3:58:09this isn't even half truth anymore this
3:58:11is three quarters okay the only thing
3:58:14missing is a quarter of the truth okay
3:58:17the rest is true okay we know that okay
3:58:22we know you got the
3:58:24text you know that you gave the
3:58:27go-ahead okay but the go-ahead wasn't
3:58:30for yourself that's what's that issue
3:58:32here Jen we're going to sit down here
3:58:35and work through this together okay
3:58:38we're going to work this
3:58:41out we're going to get the full truth
3:58:44because you know what the full truth is
3:58:47only
3:58:49100% not 75% not 90 not
3:58:5499 100% everything that really happened
3:58:57that
3:58:58night okay
3:59:01Jen all
3:59:03right let's do it together okay you did
3:59:06and I don't understand why it doesn't
3:59:07add up why it doesn't add up is because
3:59:10that's not what happened
3:59:14okay the truth will add
3:59:17up half truths don't add up that's all
3:59:21they ever are is half
3:59:29truths now we have to understand each
3:59:31other again all I need to know but
3:59:34you've already told me that you made the
3:59:36plan okay it's the only isue we have
3:59:41here is that you made it for your
3:59:43parents and we know
3:59:45that and I need you to tell me
3:59:52that
3:59:58okay
4:00:05okay tell me what happened
4:00:09I told you what happened okay all of it
4:00:12okay all you have to do is here is tell
4:00:14me right
4:00:16now that Bill yes I made a mistake Bill
4:00:19yes I made a mistake this plan was for
4:00:22my
4:00:23parents that's all we're all that's the
4:00:26only issue here not about everything
4:00:28that happened that night we know what
4:00:29happened that night
4:00:32okay but we also know that you made this
4:00:35plan for them not yourself
4:00:39okay or it's not going to go to that
4:00:42okay give me a
4:00:57second
4:00:59okay I need you to listen close to me
4:01:02okay
4:01:04Jen at this point in the investigation
4:01:07okay
4:01:08I'm going to be arresting you for
4:01:10murder okay also attempt to murder and
4:01:15conspiracy to commit murder do you
4:01:17understand
4:01:20that just have to tell me if you
4:01:22understand those charges just say yes or
4:01:25no yes okay it is my duty to inform you
4:01:30that you have the right to retain an
4:01:32instruct Council without delay do you
4:01:35understand
4:01:36that and what does that mean mean to
4:01:40you yes
4:01:43okay you also have the right to
4:01:45telephone any lawyer your wish do you
4:01:47understand
4:01:48that
4:01:50yes you also have the right to free
4:01:53advice from a legal a
4:01:55lawyer do you understand
4:01:57that 1 800 2650 0451 is a toll-free
4:02:02number you have to listen here so can
4:02:05you take your hands off your ears I need
4:02:07you to listen is a toll-free number that
4:02:10will put you in contact with a legal aid
4:02:13lawyer for free legal advice do you
4:02:17understand that so you can speak to a
4:02:19legal aid lawyer right now or a a lawyer
4:02:23of your choice if you like do you
4:02:26understand that do you wish to call a
4:02:28lawyer
4:02:31now
4:02:34yes okay do you have a lawyer that you
4:02:37know of to speak to Okay what I'm going
4:02:41to do is read you some other things and
4:02:44then we're going to deal with your
4:02:46lawyer okay we'll we'll deal with how
4:02:49we're going to get that
4:02:53so you may be charged with murder
4:02:57attempted murder and conspiracy to
4:03:00commit murder in relation to your mother
4:03:04and father those are where those charges
4:03:07stem from do you understand understand
4:03:09that this yes or
4:03:11no yes okay do you wish to say anything
4:03:16in answer to those
4:03:18charges you're not obliged to say
4:03:20anything unless you wish to do so but
4:03:22whatever you do say may be given in
4:03:24evidence do you understand
4:03:26that yes you just have to speak a little
4:03:30louder
4:03:32okay again I've already given this to
4:03:35you but I'm going to read it if you have
4:03:37spoken to any other police officer
4:03:39anyone with authority or if any such
4:03:42person has spoken to you in connection
4:03:43with this place I want it clearly
4:03:46understood that I do not want it to
4:03:47influence you in making any statement do
4:03:49you
4:03:51understand
4:03:53Jen you just have to speak a little
4:03:55louder
4:03:58yes okay so what we're going to do right
4:04:01now is do you have your own lawyer no
4:04:05no okay do you have a lawyer you would
4:04:08like to speak to that you know of
4:04:11no okay would you like to speak to duty
4:04:19counsil I just want to talk to someone
4:04:21who can help me and
4:04:23understand okay so who would that be I
4:04:26don't
4:04:29know so do you have a lawyer who said
4:04:32that you were on my side okay I am on
4:04:35your side Jen okay I know what happened
4:04:38here
4:04:40okay I'm on the side of Truth okay I
4:04:44want that to come out here but at this
4:04:46point you need to deal with a lawyer you
4:04:48said
4:04:50okay I have to honor that request so
4:04:53what we need to do now before we discuss
4:04:56anything else
4:04:59okay is deal with that issue okay so we
4:05:03have options okay you can
4:05:08do you know anyone you could to a lawyer
4:05:11yourself no um I can bring a form book
4:05:15in here with numerous lawyers and you
4:05:17can look at
4:05:19that if you like and pick a
4:05:22lawyer or we can call duty councel they
4:05:26will call back we'll put you in a
4:05:29private room and you can speak to them
4:05:30in
4:05:32private okay but the decision is
4:05:36yours
4:05:39what would you like to
4:05:43do I don't have I don't have any idea
4:05:46what to do
4:05:48okay you do want to speak to a lawyer
4:05:51though you
4:05:52said that's your
4:05:55decision so I have to accommodate that
4:05:58now okay so that's what I want to do for
4:06:01you I want to accommodate that if that's
4:06:02what you want to
4:06:06do
4:06:17okay do you want me to call duty counsel
4:06:19for
4:06:21you okay okay or is there any other
4:06:24lawyer that you would like I don't know
4:06:27any okay so at this point you wish to
4:06:29speak to duty counsil then sure okay so
4:06:32what I'm going to have to get you to do
4:06:34is actually empty all your pockets on
4:06:36the table here okay okay can
4:06:40you I have to tell people who are
4:06:43expecting me that I who's that my uncle
4:06:48okay we'll speak to them uh can you
4:06:50stand up and just empty your
4:06:52pockets just put it on the table
4:06:56here
4:06:59okay okay anything else just pull those
4:07:03pockets okay nothing
4:07:06else okay so just have a seat for a
4:07:08minute I'm just going to check your coat
4:07:11okay okay so just sit
4:07:36down
4:07:57okay so in your pockets you had a couple
4:07:59pads you have one in your jean pocket or
4:08:03with you and you had $200 in cash is
4:08:06that correct did you have any more money
4:08:09no okay and then you have this change
4:08:11here is that correct yeah anything
4:08:15else okay and your cell phone which I
4:08:18have here okay so in change I have 25 35
4:08:2245 55 65
4:08:2575 85
4:08:2895
4:08:32$1 and 7
4:08:34cents so
4:08:36$100
4:08:38$11.7 okay we'll put that in a bag for
4:08:41you okay need 200 in sorry 200 you're
4:08:46right so
4:08:49$217 two $100 bills right okay that will
4:08:53be kept with some property for you when
4:08:56I come back in
4:08:58okay I'm going to make sure that they're
4:09:01making a call to duty counsel and we'll
4:09:03line that up and you can speak to duty
4:09:05counsel in private okay
4:09:08all right do you have any uh jewelry
4:09:10around your neck at all okay all right
4:09:13hold tight while we weo that
4:09:28okay we've uh made a call to do the coun
4:09:31and we're just waiting for them to call
4:09:33back
4:09:34okay I need a drink of water or anything
4:09:38what's
4:09:39that uh I do have to uh go and speak to
4:09:42these officers but I'll come back and
4:09:44speak to you okay but we got to get we
4:09:47got to take care of the lawyers okay
4:09:49that's the priority right now
4:09:53okay

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