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Jennifer Pan Full Interrogation - Part 2 — Transcript

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0:00okay Jennifer I'm gonna explain this
0:01sworn video statement form and as I've
0:04we're now being recorded this is not new
0:07to you we've done this once before okay
0:10I want to take before we get this try
0:13and take that first interview that we
0:16had which was you know hours after what
0:18what it transpired put it aside it's
0:21almost like we've never spoken before
0:22okay so we're starting to fresh we're
0:25starting from new that way you're not
0:27gonna say I think I already told him
0:28that don't worry about what you've
0:30already told me so this is a statement
0:34of jennifer pan and the incident number
0:36is for the murder investigation is three
0:40one zero one eight eight of 2010
0:42Jennifer do you ever do you understand
0:45that everything that's being said in
0:46this room is being videotaped
0:47yes okay my name is Randy Slade and I'm
0:52a detective with the York Regional
0:54Police my badge number is 531 there's no
0:57one else present in the room other than
0:58you and I and monitoring this statement
1:00next to us is Debra cladding today's
1:03Thursday November the 11th 2010 the time
1:07on what my watch is 9:43 in the morning
1:12we are presently videotaping at 5:00
1:14district in the Town of Markham in the
1:17regionalist polity of York is there
1:19anything good we're back to this
1:21question again about is there anything
1:23else I need to know in order to better
1:25understand your statement and that is do
1:26you suffer from any mental illness have
1:28you been drinking did you take any drugs
1:31so there's nothing that's gonna
1:33influence your statement don't be
1:38nervous okay
1:40I know that's tough to say but don't be
1:42nervous the truth is always the best way
1:47to relieve anxiety okay we're
1:51investigating an allegation of murder
1:59of your mum [ __ ] ha pan as a part of
2:04our investigation of the fest if offense
2:06I would like to interview on videotape
2:09and under oath solemn affirmation or
2:11solemn declaration it is my obligation
2:13to advise you of certain information
2:15before we commence this statement just
2:18want it redundant remember me telling
2:25you about that so just to reiterate
2:31we're in the middle are starting the
2:33middle portion of the video KGB I've
2:35just turned on my digital audio recorder
2:37just just in case for failsafe measures
2:39it's now 9:45 we began the video
2:42statement portion at 9:43 and I'm just
2:45at the portion of the video statement
2:47form Jennifer can you spell your name
2:50for me last name okay so it's my
2:58obligation to advise you of certain
3:00information before we commence this
3:01statement you may be a witness in court
3:04concerning the events you're about to
3:05describe in your statement if at any
3:07time you change your statement or claim
3:08not to remember the events the contents
3:10of this video statement you give now may
3:12be used as evidence in court do you
3:14understand yes and for the audio
3:19recording just too dated it's the 11th
3:21of November and I already said 9:45
3:27these are the Criminal Code sanctions
3:29remember I told you the explaining of
3:31the of the facts of that there's certain
3:34penalties for not telling the truth or
3:36misleading the police it's also my
3:38obligation to advise you that
3:40fabricating evidence with the intent to
3:42mislead is an offense under Section 137
3:45of the Criminal Code and if you give a
3:46false statement under oath you may be
3:48charged with fabricating evidence if
3:50convicted of fabricating evidence you
3:52could be sentenced up to 14 years in
3:53jail it is also an offense under Section
3:56139 of the Criminal Code to obstruct by
3:58willfully attempting to obstruct pervert
4:00or defeat the course of justice and you
4:03may be charged if you obstruct justice
4:04if convicted of obstructing justice you
4:07could be sentenced up to ten years in
4:08jail it is also an offense under Section
4:11140 the criminal
4:12code to commit public mischief by
4:14causing a police officer to start or
4:16continue an investigation by making a
4:18false statement that accuses some other
4:20person of committing an offense and you
4:22may be charged if you commit public
4:24mischief if convicted of public mischief
4:26you could be sentenced up to five years
4:28in jail if you were charged with one or
4:30more of the above offenses this
4:32statement may be used as evidence
4:33against you do you understand the
4:35criminal sanctions I've explained to you
4:38do you understand the criminal
4:40consequences of making a false statement
4:42yes do you understand that it's your
4:46choice to give whether or not you want
4:47to give a statement yes do you
4:51understand the importance of telling
4:52truth in regards to this investigation
4:56if you've spoken to a police officer any
4:58person in authority in connection with
5:00this investigation I want it too clearly
5:01understood I don't want it to influence
5:03you in making a statement do you
5:05understand that have any questions are
5:12you prepared to give a video statement
5:13under oath or solemn I'll forgive me
5:15sorry solemn affirmation or a
5:17declaration at this time yes okay I'm
5:20just gonna bring the Commission
5:28[Music]
5:32hello I'm Sonia Cheney I'm a
5:35commissioner and I'm just going to swear
5:37you in for your statements okay will you
5:39be swearing on the Bible or were you
5:41just place your right hand there please
5:48and your first name is Jennifer last
5:51name of the pen yes okay do you Jennifer
5:55pen swear declare that the evidence that
5:58you give in this investigation shall be
6:00the truth the whole truth and nothing
6:01but the truth so help you God yes
6:17thank you okay so what we're gonna do
6:32now is as I said what what education
6:35level do you have high school have you
6:38gone to any other cricket like after
6:40school a higher level of education have
6:42you been working towards anything okay
6:48there's no other education that you've
6:50sought like you haven't gone to
6:51university at this point in time okay
6:54so I want I want you to forget or put
7:04aside the first statement that we had
7:06talked a bit okay this is going to be
7:10where I'm gonna ask you to start from
7:12the day okay on the 8th leading up until
7:18when you when the police become involved
7:20in an incident that takes place in your
7:22house I want you to tell me about your
7:23day what you do your interaction with
7:25your parents
7:26okay so we're at what we are is we're
7:29dealing with the incident we're not
7:30dealing with your history right now
7:32we're dealing with the incident again
7:33see if anything else comes forgetting
7:36what you've already told me and bring
7:39you throughout self through that day and
7:41through the event and we'll see if what
7:43we're gonna see if we've learned or if
7:45you've remembered anything else and
7:46there's some questions with respect to
7:49that statement that I'm gonna ask you
7:51about okay so but I'm gonna let you
7:53start again and and let's let's move
7:55forward from any time in that day where
7:57you want to start if it's a time you
7:58woke up or if it's the time that your
8:00first interaction it's your choice why
8:07don't you listen why are you why you
8:09nervous tell me about why you're nervous
8:10because I don't want to say the wrong
8:13thing
8:14all you so that day was a lot you're
8:19right and I've been scattered and so
8:24bits and pieces are here and some pieces
8:26aren't here and
8:28I'm just so I want you to sit back in
8:32your chair okay just sit back in your
8:34chair take a deep breath okay close your
8:38eyes
8:38just follow my line just sit back in the
8:40chair for a second sit back relax is the
8:44best you can close your eyes and just
8:50breathe for a minute okay
9:01we're not in any type of danger we're
9:03nowhere we're in a very safe place okay
9:08and we're gonna work through this and
9:11don't worry about what you forget or
9:13what you mix up or whatever you're doing
9:15is you start and push the play button
9:19for that day and if you stick to
9:23everything that you remember happening
9:25that day it will come out in sequence
9:28okay and I'm gonna show you a technique
9:30after we go through this that will just
9:32that will show it to you okay so let's
9:35just start you've taken a deep breath
9:37you've relaxed you're in a good position
9:39right there let's start from the
9:41beginning of the day when you wake up
9:43and let's start moving forward from
9:45there what I couldn't remember is when I
9:50woke up I had some breakfast and I went
9:55upstairs to do some piano history and I
9:58was on the computer what time is that
10:00around I'm not a hundred percent sure
10:08time is it like is it you know time is
10:10important meaning is it is it in the
10:13beginning of them I was that morning is
10:14the whiteout is in the afternoon like
10:17maybe before noon before noon sometime
10:21before noon yes okay for noon I place a
10:27Facebook game so I was doing that and
10:29then I stopped and then I was doing some
10:33studying for my piano like I said I was
10:36working towards a piano degree in
10:38teaching so I was reading some history
10:41notes and going over some practice
10:44examination papers who's in the house at
10:49that time my father has left for work
10:51and my mother's home okay where's your
10:53mom do you know where she is
11:01don't remember at this point goodbye for
11:04I'm getting the last few days all mixed
11:08up together
11:09gosh I believe she had left was my aunt
11:13to go and visit my grandfather that
11:16morning or early afternoon he is
11:20reciting what sorry he reside resided at
11:27a mansion nursing home and he had just
11:29gotten back from the hospital Saturday
11:33tree so she went in I don't remember she
11:37took my aunt when she went in to see if
11:40she could see how the nurse the nurse
11:43got any updates on him and see if she
11:45could feed him when she had left she had
11:49called me and she asked me to come out
11:54because there were some police officers
11:56on the street and I went out and I asked
12:00the police officers came up and they
12:02said that there was a gas leak on our
12:04street and to exit our exit our house so
12:09I said if it would be possible could I
12:12go in and grab a jacket because I was
12:13still in just regular clothes so I went
12:18in and when I came out my mother said
12:20that they wouldn't let her take out the
12:21car either so we work on it we decided
12:23to we were gonna walk across the street
12:25to a relative's house there and before
12:29we could get to our relatives house the
12:32officers got a message or a memo from
12:34and from their fellow officers saying
12:37that our side was secure in that it
12:39might be from another area so from there
12:42I went back into the house remember what
12:44time that was again it was before noon
12:48before noon okay I'm pretty sure it's
12:52before noon
12:52so before noon and now your mom's come
12:54back from no not yet she's on it she was
12:57leaving to go over okay
12:59so she left to go pick up my aunt and go
13:03in to my grandfather's and I went back
13:06up to on the computer to do a little
13:08studying taking a break and
13:10playing some games um remember speaking
13:18to anyone during the day on your on your
13:21phone or on the on Facebook um later on
13:27in the day yes I spoke to a long time
13:29for an Andrew who I went to elementary
13:30school with but just the usual he just
13:37asked if we could hang out anytime soon
13:39but I explained to him that I wasn't
13:41able to leave the house and I couldn't
13:44meet up with him so I asked him how his
13:46life was with his girlfriend how his job
13:49was going I believe that was later on in
13:52the day though that wasn't in the
13:54afternoon we'll go in later in the end
13:56when we talk about your past about why
13:58you couldn't leave the house ok so that
14:00isn't that hasn't gone unnoticed but
14:02we're not gonna talk about that right
14:04now we're talking about that day so
14:06continue on um I think my mom came home
14:10at about 3:00 or so I'm not sure where
14:16she went with my aunt she came home and
14:19unpacked and started preparing dinner um
14:25my father came home my father came home
14:32about 4:00 2430 it was later than he
14:37usually does he normally comes home
14:39about 10:00 to 4:00 when my mother asked
14:43him where he had been he had said he had
14:45forgotten to lock his toolbox at work or
14:49something about along the lines of he
14:52had to go back to work because he had
14:53forgotten to close something or lock
14:56something up where does your dad work
14:59Colby and stell middle field and
15:06self-defense okay continue so he comes
15:10he's home now late at 4:20 4:30 4:30 and
15:13he phoned and asked my uncle Nam if he
15:17wanted to go to go buy some like heat
15:21covers in a USB pen
15:24so he immediately left not shortly after
15:27that maybe 4:30 a little bit after that
15:30and on Monday nights my mother goes
15:33dancing so wish I'd finished dinner and
15:37me and her
15:38ate dinner first what time did you guys
15:40have dinner around 5:00 5:30
15:44mm-hm and then she had then my father
15:47came home and he had dinner and what
15:50time did your dad get home I say maybe
15:59sometime between 6:00 and 6:30 because
16:01my mother was able to clean up before
16:03going hope to dancing when your dad
16:06comes home do you remember seeing what
16:07type of bags he was carrying when he
16:09came in I wasn't downstairs when he came
16:12through the door I had gone upstairs
16:13already
16:14okay so you don't know where he went
16:17shopping in um all I know is that when I
16:19came down to greet him after he came
16:21home he had shown me this heating cover
16:24that he had bought for the house didn't
16:27have a label on it didn't you didn't
16:29took it out of the bag or ID he did he
16:31just showed me the the cover itself he
16:34didn't
16:35did you see the USB stick I believe a
16:38USB stick was for my uncle if they
16:40bought it or not I don't know I'm not
16:41sure okay so it's now 6:00 to 6:30
16:45because your dad's now home and eating
16:46and your mom said you say your mom
16:48cleans up yeah and then she leaves at
16:507:00 and my father goes up to his
16:53computer like he normally does yes and
16:55he's on the computer watch like news I'm
16:58not sure what he's doing
16:59I'm in my room well I believe that
17:02dissapoint had called my friend hang on
17:06let's make sure I got to make sure that
17:07the tape recorders didn't just click off
17:09okay
17:10cuz we had a bit of a power flicker so
17:12just give me a second
17:19okay so we're still we're still okay so
17:26we're at we're at seven o'clock right
17:29and your mom's getting ready to go so
17:32continue on so she leaves and I my
17:39friend Adrienne had asked if we would do
17:41our movie night like we normally do he
17:44comes over with TV shows some of our
17:48favorites to watch together so he had to
17:54come over I'm sorry I this the timelines
17:57a little off
17:58he had come over around I think I killed
18:01him I've messaged him around six o'clock
18:03he came over about six
18:0526:30 what and when you say message and
18:08was it Facebook or was your phone text
18:10message and what was the phone which
18:11phone is it that you use which phone
18:13number um my Rogers your Rogersville and
18:17six four seven nine six five two one one
18:22eight okay so that's the message and is
18:24that the first communication you had
18:25with him that day I think I had messaged
18:28him at three o'clock you know he had
18:29messaged me around in the afternoon
18:31sometime asking me if it was TV was on
18:34tonight okay and then I had messaged him
18:36I'm done you can come over whenever I
18:39think that was just the message I so
18:42what time does he arrive again right
18:45between 6:00 and 6:30 so your mom and
18:48dad are both home my parents are home
18:49and he came in he greets them as usual
18:51they they ask him how everything was
18:55going and then my mom had left for
18:58Dancing and we were downstairs watching
19:04that day we watched Gossip Girl and How
19:08I Met Your Mother
19:09is this are these live TV shows are
19:12these recordings he he brings them on a
19:14USB pen okay when your mom leaves what
19:18is she wearing I didn't pay attention do
19:21you remember what she was wearing when
19:22you were having dinner I she was wearing
19:24her pajamas when we were having dinner
19:26what do they look like
19:28judge green with Winnie the Pooh okay so
19:35when you say when she leaves to go out
19:37would she have changed yes because I was
19:39like I said my friend came around like
19:416:30 so we were already gassers watching
19:44movies but when she went up to change
19:46quickly and go to her dance class at
19:49seven okay and what car does she take
19:51when she Lisa takes Nia Lexus is that
19:53the only car she drives pretty much my
19:55father drives them his Mercedes and my
19:57mother drives the Lexus do you do they
20:00have like parents have different kinds
20:02of routines do they have a routine where
20:04they parked the car in the garage
20:06no garage normally inside but if we plan
20:10to go out again we park our car outside
20:14but only the Lexus so my mother when she
20:16came home from like I said going out
20:19with my aunt she had parked the car
20:21outside okay so when my friend came he
20:24parked beside her okay and where do they
20:28usually in the garages or do they just
20:30take out either side I the Lexus is
20:32normally on the when facing the house
20:36I'm looking at the house left side left
20:38side is Alexis and the Mercedes is on
20:41the right closer to the door okay no
20:43other cars in the house just those two
20:46okay so your mom's goes did you see her
20:50change her clothes unfortunately I was
20:52watching I was just watching my TV where
20:56were you watching in the basement in the
20:58basement so when you say that she's
21:01wearing her pajamas and she goes
21:05upstairs and change is that something
21:07you know or you're speculating no for
21:09sure she has to change into regular
21:11clothes to going okay Oh dancing that's
21:14something that I didn't see it but I
21:17know for sure that that's what she does
21:18okay so your mom goes and where's your
21:21dad at this point he is well like I said
21:24around 6:30 he was just finishing up
21:25dinner and after you finished dinner he
21:28went up he goes upstairs and goes in the
21:29computer so let's talk about the layout
21:31of the house before we move on any
21:33further here you're in the basement yes
21:36okay and it's just the two of you you
21:39Adrian yes the main level the ground
21:42level what's on the ground level um what
21:46we call our living dining room with my
21:47piano yes and then behind that is my
21:52family room okay and then aside the
21:55family room is our kitchen so it are
22:00they in separate locations living room
22:01dining room or is it living dining room
22:03dining by more than a half like that
22:05there's a wall but there is a way to
22:08walk from living room dining or living
22:10our combines our eating okay
22:12but to go to the family room there's
22:14like a wall but there is a good a
22:17doorway bit like a nice way of opening
22:20yes to go through in the kitchen is
22:22where um in the front back side the back
22:27of the house the back of the house okay
22:29you go up the stairs what's what's on
22:31the stairs were what's up stairs how
22:33many bedrooms are out there four
22:34bedrooms but one we use as a study and
22:37where's the study located um that's the
22:40front of the house beside my parents my
22:43parents bedroom okay and where's your
22:45bedroom located um the back of the house
22:48and is there another bedroom back there
22:50- there's one more bedroom back there
22:52and that's used for my brother or my
22:55cousin depending on who comes home okay
22:58your cousin who's uh his name is Curtis
23:01and he goes to school in Waterloo um
23:05during co-op seat the last co-op season
23:07he co-opted in Toronto so he stayed with
23:10us for four months Curtis his last name
23:12hello okay we'll get to Curtis after so
23:17now we're back to your your pit your
23:19your dad is upstairs did you see him go
23:22to the computer room like I said you're
23:23speculating yes that's what his normal
23:26routine is that's his normal routine
23:27you're in the basement yes did you hear
23:30me your mom leave or your yes yes okay
23:33and how do your parents leave when
23:35they're taking their cars now this time
23:37you say the car was out in the driveway
23:38did you hear how that we did when you
23:40say you heard your mom leave how what
23:41what where did she go out because with
23:44how the house is laid out the stairwell
23:47is in the middle of the house so she
23:49would have to walk
23:53she would have to walk across the stairs
23:57to go to the front door
23:59so I heard her pass through okay and if
24:05you park your cars in your garage how do
24:07you get do they your parents come close
24:10the door come out and into the house or
24:11do they know if they park in the garage
24:14they come through there's an entrance
24:16from the garage to the house inside the
24:19garage how many ways are there to get
24:20into your house other than break in a
24:22window like how many don't a doorway
24:24story so there's no there's that there's
24:26a door from the garage yes the front
24:30doorway and the backyard in the backyard
24:34okay so it's now seven o'clock are
24:41beyond your mom's gone
24:42your dad's you believe upstairs in the
24:44computer room in the office and you're
24:46downstairs with Adrian watching either
24:47the How I Met Your Mother or gossip
24:50gossip girl it's a few episodes do you
24:53talk to anyone or text message anyone
24:55throughout the time that you're with
24:56Adrian no does Adrian talk or text
24:58message anyone through the techies
24:59formalin I believe his phone was aside
25:02okay and then what happens
25:07nine o'clock comes and he says after
25:10that final episode he watches like it's
25:12time for me to go home so I see him out
25:15and I went upstairs and got ready for
25:18bed okay
25:20and did you see your dad or hear your
25:22dad when you went upstairs when I went
25:23upstairs he was in his computer room
25:25like he normally is and on the computer
25:27at that point in time okay
25:29and your mom's not home no she her
25:32dancing doesn't finish till about 9:00
25:33so she doesn't get home till closer to
25:359:30 okay so you're in your bedroom and
25:38what are you doing I'm at this point I
25:40was on the phone with my friend Andrew
25:41okay and just talking to him and then
25:45event after and watching TV and then
25:48that was I don't remember how long the
25:50conversation was but then I ended up
25:51calling my friend Edward so Andrew
25:55Andrew is a old high school friend okay
25:59and is he the one that was you would
26:02talk to this is the person you said you
26:03were talking to your try
26:05who was asking about meeting up with you
26:07yes so you were actually talking on the
26:10phone with him now yes did you you were
26:12talking on Facebook with him earlier no
26:14I was text messaging text messaging him
26:17were you talking anyone on Facebook at
26:19the same time because I know I know you
26:21guys can multitask no I believe my
26:23facebook I keep my there's a chat window
26:26and I keep that as offline unless I
26:28intend to speak to one of my friends
26:31regarding one of the games I play so
26:33when you're talking to Andrew you're not
26:35talking to anyone else
26:36no when you're talking to Edward you're
26:39not talking anyone else I don't have a
26:41computer in my room okay so that's that
26:44answers the question is that there's no
26:45computer in there how many computers are
26:47in the house there's one computer I'm
26:50not sure about towers because my brother
26:52recently took one to school with him but
26:55I know there's one fully working
26:56computer and my mother has a laptop do
26:59you use either um like I said I was on
27:02the main computer earlier yes and a
27:05laptop I use occasionally but not too
27:07often did you use it that day
27:16I don't I don't remember it to be honest
27:20but I don't believe I did and what
27:22services do you use when you're using
27:24the laptop or or the other what you say
27:27you're on Facebook is there any other
27:28chat lines or any other sometimes I have
27:31an MSN open but rarely I don't like to
27:35be on MSN too much okay so now we're at
27:419 o'clock and you're into the
27:43conversation you've had finisher
27:45conversation with Andrew and now you're
27:46speaking to Edward what time is it you
27:48think 9:15 9:30 when you're talking to
27:54Edward is your mom have you heard your
27:56mom come in yet I heard my mom come in
27:57so I asked him to hold he had hung up so
28:02when I went down I was like hi mom and
28:04then I saw her she had changed into her
28:06pajamas and she was downstairs watching
28:09TV again so let's stop it right there
28:11just hold it in check is that when she
28:16came in did you see her I didn't see her
28:19come in okay no when you heard her come
28:21in and you say she changed into your
28:23pajamas stairs
28:24you heard her come up the stairs my one
28:26go up the stairs and go into her bedroom
28:27okay
28:28and then when I went down stick she went
28:30back down the stairs and that's when I
28:31went out and I went down the stairs and
28:33that's when I noticed she was in her
28:35pajamas and just watching TV
28:36okay did you see your dad he had gone
28:40back to his bedroom to call it a night
28:43you his door was closed but he wasn't on
28:46the computer you could see in the
28:48computer room that he was not there so
28:50this is after your mom after your mom
28:52arrives home you've heard her come up
28:55the stairs go into the girl in the room
28:58you're suspecting she's changed because
29:00by the time you follow her down the
29:01stairs she didn't follow her she went
29:03down then I went after sure you went
29:06down to talk to your mom just to make
29:07sure her shoes okay what kind of what
29:11kind of pajamas is she wearing at this
29:13time green wouldn't the Pooh she went
29:15change back into her green red the Pooh
29:17pajamas okay when you come downstairs
29:21are you noticing is there any problems
29:23any issues anything out of the norm when
29:25you've been as because you said you went
29:26down to check on her and see how she was
29:28is there anything that's strange
29:30is there anything different not that I
29:32know she was just on the couch like she
29:33normally is watching television winding
29:36down okay and that's now you're saying
29:429:15 to 9:30 she gets home that's after
29:44that obviously okay and then what
29:47happens I'll go back up my stairs and I
29:49call that again okay and I had to just
29:53wash them so I did put him on mute for a
29:55quick second and then I came back and I
29:58was just watching TV and talking with it
30:00okay how long are you now upstairs on
30:04the phone with it with Edward I'm sorry
30:07about that time frame just like I'm not
30:10sure okay your cell phone records are
30:15gonna give us the exact times okay okay
30:17so all right have you talked to anyone
30:19else is it you hang up with Edward go
30:23down and see your mom come back upstairs
30:26call Edward use the washroom on the
30:30phone with Edward still have you talked
30:32to anyone else okay have you text
30:36message anyone else how many don't
30:41believe I had didna do you have more
30:43than one phone I had one but I keep that
30:47I just keep the SIM card yes um
30:50again we will go into it in the history
30:52sure but uh my cell phone gets taken
30:54away from me sometimes okay and so I had
30:57a friend of mine Daniel he bought you
31:01got a SIM card for me to use sometimes
31:03but I take the SIM card out when I
31:05finish it and I normally keep it in my
31:07pocket so my parents wouldn't find it
31:09yes but I don't remember the last time I
31:12I used it okay but you didn't use that
31:16SIM card that day no I did not no you
31:19did not
31:20I don't remember the last time maybe it
31:22was a few days before that it was the
31:24last time I remember using it was when
31:26my grandfather I was in the hospital and
31:29I had messaged him and he asked me how
31:31my grandfather was and how long when is
31:34that time for him that your grandfather
31:35he was in a hospital for about ten days
31:37ten days okay so that's the last time
31:41you remember using that SIM card
31:42associated from what your friend had
31:45given you was about ten days earlier or
31:48even 12 days earlier because I believe
31:50you said your grandfather had come out
31:51of the hospital or was he still in the
31:53hospital no he was in the hospital for
31:55ten days yes on Saturday he had gone
31:58back to his nursing home and this is
32:01Monday word so it's about 12 to 14 days
32:06earlier that this app that you use you
32:08use the sim card you're guessing with
32:10you probably want within a week within a
32:14week yeah because I've never seen days
32:16that we were saying because I would
32:18message him when my grandfather was in
32:20the hospital okay yeah and where's that
32:23SIM card now I'm not sure I don't
32:26remember I had it in my jacket pocket
32:29but I don't remember where it is now
32:31okay so we're now back to you're on the
32:37phone with Edward again the history
32:38stuff you're right well I don't want it
32:40to get convoluted in here but we need to
32:41you know we'll talk about that stuff
32:43after so we're back on track here it's
32:46now you're back on the phone you've come
32:49from the washroom taking the human
32:50button off and you're now so on the
32:51phone Edward where's your mom have you
32:56heard your mom come up the stairs is she
32:57still down still downstairs she's still
32:59downstairs okay continue on I'm just I
33:04had my TV on I was watching TV yes don't
33:11worry what shows I just believe it was
33:14amazing Amazing Race I'm not a hundred
33:18percent sure at this moment I was
33:20watching TV and on the phone with Edie
33:21as well okay and then I the next thing I
33:28remember is my mother calling down for
33:30my father what is she saying
33:34she's calling him by his name and to
33:36come down Kate is so give us verbatim
33:39what do you hear her saying is it in
33:42Vietnamese Chinese Vietnamese okay what
33:46do you hear saying
33:47in viña me like honey
33:50someday what is that translate to this
33:55my father's name hon I'll come down here
33:57does she say anything else associated
33:59with that with that I can't hear clearly
34:03because like I was on the phone and the
34:06TV was on but that's what I heard is she
34:08yelling or is it allowed it's a she's
34:13not yelling but it's a loud tone okay
34:15and normally that tone means that I need
34:18to go down and see what's happening
34:20usually so that's when I told him I told
34:23Edward I was like okay I gotta go I'll
34:25call you later
34:26and I hang up the phone with him have
34:28you heard anything else at this point in
34:30time as I'm hanging up the phone with
34:32him I hear footsteps going up the stairs
34:34okay but they're not they're heavier
34:38footsteps then what is to be expected
34:41from my parents okay and then I hear
34:45mumbling and someone's in the master
34:48bedroom and I hear the bed being tossed
34:51and I just froze where I was after hey I
34:56don't know how long they were in there
34:59but I heard somebody going down the
35:03stairs so at this point I opened my door
35:07I peered out and there was a person in
35:13the light what would have been my
35:16brother's room and where's your
35:17brother's room located uh just a little
35:19bit done like I could see my from my
35:21doorway to his doorway just a little bit
35:23down the hall okay and he looks at me
35:28and he pulls out his gun and he walks
35:32towards me and like sits me down on my
35:35bed because my bed is within a step from
35:38my door and he's like where's the money
35:42do you have any money came here money
35:51so I had some money that I had saved up
35:53from serving and I was also planning on
35:57buying a new cell phone because my
35:58contract was finishing with Rogers and
36:03the phone I'm currently using has not
36:06good reception so I had set about two
36:09thousand dollars saved up and so I
36:16opened my drawer and I pointed at it and
36:18he picked it up and took the cash even
36:23put it in his pocket
36:28at this point he ties my hands behind my
36:31back
36:33and he walks me out okay so stop right
36:36there for a second okay I want you know
36:39that you've got him right there I want
36:41you to describe him to me what you can
36:43remember every little detail
36:53he's black the dreadlocks how long are
36:58the dress about show me on your on your
37:02on your own body where they where you
37:04would see about shoulder length okay but
37:06they were long enough that date were
37:09able to move he's I would you medium
37:17build and he is late when I was standing
37:23I was almost I love what with him and
37:29you when he came up to me I'm about five
37:31seven okay all I can remember is dark
37:41clothing now you got to you've got a gun
37:48pointed at you yes he told okay
37:52the gun was black with almost not a
38:01triangle but it kind of tapered a little
38:06on the handle and I would describe it as
38:11like what I see on TV for like police
38:15officers kind of like I guess like a
38:18handgun sort of thing and the whole time
38:22he kept telling me to look down
38:28because my bedroom was dark but the
38:31hallway was lit so he kept telling me to
38:33look down look down at this point
38:39any accent not from this particular
38:45person does he sound like he was born
38:47and raised in Canada I'd say I would say
38:53that he was born in Canada but it's like
38:57there was no sign of an accent in his
38:59and that's not what I mean culturally
39:01I'm talking about the language you know
39:02you can tell someone who's spent a long
39:04time as a young age from starting
39:06because there is no it's it's an almost
39:09normal speech is that what you're saying
39:11yes okay can you see anything on his
39:15hands he's wearing gloves what type of
39:19gloves uh black leather gloves
39:22okay now facial experience before you T
39:27tells you to look down do you see
39:28anything is you got a wide nose is he
39:30got is his any pock marks and he acting
39:34any facial hair
39:46really think it could really make out
39:47it's just the general shape of his face
39:50which is the only thing I could think
39:54that caught my attention was the widget
39:58okay what about his facial what about
40:03what he looks like tell me about that
40:04you said about the site or the shape of
40:07his face
40:10it's not round but it's it's not a
40:15narrow face I is do you didn't like his
40:26cheeks were protruding but they were
40:30they're not like the normal people
40:42it looks almost like a roundish squarish
40:46face mmm
40:49his cheeks he had cheeks it wasn't like
40:53there were like a what they call on the
40:57defined the the cheekbones yes like it
41:00was it was almost like round full full
41:03like there was some meat there right
41:05like I want everyone say fatty like it
41:07wasn't like yeah protruding but it was
41:09there was no like definition okay
41:14and now this guy's age and I know it's
41:17very difficult to define but you know
41:19people age differently and they have
41:21different appearances where would you
41:23put this this dis guy very late 20s to
41:28early 30s somebody I would if I had to
41:32put numbers I'd say somewhere between 28
41:34to about 33 if you saw a picture of this
41:38guy in a composite like a on a profile
41:41do you think you can identify it I
41:46wouldn't be 100% certain okay so what
41:50everyone looked like if everyone had
41:52dreadlocks and the face was very
41:54familiar I didn't get a very very clear
41:58look at his face because I'm sorry but
42:01the the only thing I could really see
42:05was that he had pointed that at me and
42:07now I think you know there a possibility
42:11is just based on you if we sat you in
42:13front of a composite drawer it sounds
42:15like you could give them some some raw
42:17information that might be able to help
42:19in that area okay so if you can't do
42:21that ID that that one's still available
42:23okay so now he's you've given he's
42:27taking your money where and where
42:29exactly was your money located uh I my
42:32TV's on on a bedside table and I keep it
42:37in a little book almost a day planner
42:41but I don't use it for date planning it
42:44was a gift from friends what are you
42:45wearing right now
42:48I'm wearing what I was prepared to go to
42:50bed I'm wearing my black pants and an
42:55old figure skating a sweater that I had
42:58gotten describe the sweater to me like
43:01what is it it doesn't have pockets does
43:02it have a hood does it is it just a
43:04sweater it's just that like I slip on
43:06sweater no hood no pocket okay so when
43:09you get off the phone with Edward and
43:11you're saying where does this phone go I
43:13stick it right here on the back side of
43:17my pants back side of your pants yes so
43:20in the waistband yes okay you open the
43:25door you see this figure he's come in
43:27he's taking the money and the bed the
43:29nightstand is on what side of your bed
43:30if you're looking at if you're looking
43:32at the front of your bed this way where
43:34is the nightstand it's in front of my
43:38bed okay she's right beside the door yes
43:44the nightstand the TV and my bed is
43:48along towards the TV to watch did he
43:52take anything else from your room not
43:55when I was there no not when you were
43:57there no okay did he toss your room I
44:03don't while you were there mom okay so
44:08he takes you your your let out so early
44:11the hallway now and what happens are the
44:13lights in the hallway stolen yes but
44:18he's telling me to look down okay
44:20and at this point now he's behind me he
44:22had grabbed me at this shirt
44:25and he had pulled meat in front of him
44:27and was pushing me towards the stairs
44:32okay what does he say he keeps yelling
44:40hurry up hurry up do what we're saying
44:45and no one will get hurt
44:48okay
44:57and then he takes me down the stairs and
45:01the lights on the main floor are all
45:03turned off we take my stairs are little
45:13curved and we just went he sat he made
45:16me pushed me down but my shoulders and
45:19told me to sit on the floor do you feel
45:23the gun is he using his hand he's using
45:26his hand to lead me down the stairs and
45:28forced me to sit down
45:30Oh only one hand okay you see the gun
45:33again at this point I'm looking down and
45:37he's behind me so I don't see his gun
45:40but I can see there's two other shadows
45:45and I can see from where I was standing
45:50my father was thing on the right and my
45:52mother was thing below sitting where on
45:55a couch on our couch sitting on the
45:58couch are they looking out towards you
46:00no their backs are towards me okay and
46:04you're now on the ground level are you
46:06on the floor or on the sitting still
46:08floor I'm sitting on the floor alright
46:10where are your hands they had tied my
46:12hands let's go back up to the stairs
46:15remember we said take the other
46:17statement and whatever we said before I
46:20okay then we must let's let's get back
46:22to that area I think you might have
46:23touched on it we went back into the
46:24description so where does he where do
46:26you get your hands tied and where does
46:28the string come from I'm not sure where
46:31this term comes from but he had the
46:33string okay and he after I gave him my
46:37money that's when he tied my hands how
46:40did that happen where were you in the
46:43room in the hallway where they told me
46:44to sit down on the edge of my bed yes
46:48and that's when I opened he shot he shot
46:52told me show show me and I pulled open
46:55my my drawer my dresser and he saw the
47:00money and he picked it up my book and
47:03then he opened up the book and grabbed
47:04the cash put in his pocket okay
47:08at this point he still has a gun
47:10pointing towards me and he you're doing
47:20great you're doing fabulous okay so he's
47:24got the gun pointed at ya and how do the
47:29hands get behind your back he told me to
47:32put my hands behind me okay continue
47:48I believe he had
47:55I'm sorry I'm just trying to be 100%
47:58certain mm-hmm and it's just it's pieces
48:01then they roll through them we'll put
48:03the pieces together you've got the money
48:09out of the drawer open the drawer you
48:11said in his pocket I'm sitting on my bed
48:12yes and he had told me to put my hands
48:16behind my back okay it was dark so I
48:24believe he told me to stand up so he
48:27could tie my hands together and I was
48:30trying to make it loose so I could I
48:35could do something but he had pulled him
48:38so tight and he made sure I squealed
48:43before he before he let go is your TV
48:49okay my TV's on the whole time okay
48:56so you've squealed or tight and they're
48:58behind your back
48:59and that's when he grabs me and starts
49:01leading me down the stairs
49:02okay does he Pat you down or search you
49:04or do anything no because if he had Pat
49:08me down he would have found my foot okay
49:10so you you're now down at the bottom of
49:13the stairs you at this point in time
49:16you've only seen one person or have you
49:17seen the others before you get to the
49:19bottom this before I get to the ball on
49:20the stairs I had seen one person okay so
49:26now you're at the bottom of the stairs
49:27and he keeps telling these guys to hurry
49:29up hurry up is taking too long and he he
49:35told me I look down but I was able to
49:39see out of my peripheral a man that I
49:49will call numbers three because I
49:51associated with him the least you had a
49:56gun pointed at my father asking him if
50:05he had money in his wallet and where the
50:10money was in the house and he asked my
50:13father how much he had in his wallet and
50:16my father answered him $60 and he kept
50:19yelling you better not be lying to be is
50:21there more where is the rest and
50:30another person who was hiding behind the
50:34wall in the kitchen from where I said I
50:37couldn't see him at first he had was
50:40asking my mother were her purse with so
50:44hang on a second who is this is this
50:45another another guy is this number a
50:47number you've gone from a number one to
50:49a number three yes I call this number
50:51two okay so number three let's stick
50:54with number three what what can you
50:55describe of him if anything including
50:59the gun I can only see that there was
51:04around like a revolver sorry that's okay
51:10remember if you have to stop and take
51:13some deep breaths if that really does
51:15help the process his gun had what you
51:21call over I believe a revolver it's like
51:24one of those things you see an old old
51:26the western movies mm-hmm and you had I
51:31could just see almost like a silhouette
51:35of it from the light coming through the
51:39curtains so in proximity now you're
51:43looking through the peripheral okay is
51:46it you're looking right or left where
51:48you are but you're looking right so
51:50you're looking over here to the right
51:52okay and you can see your back so your
51:55mom and dad who are sitting on the couch
51:56yes can you see what they're wearing I
52:00can't see what my father was wearing can
52:03you see what your mom's worried at that
52:06point in time I couldn't see what my
52:07mother's way it was later on that I saw
52:10what she was right okay so we'll go onto
52:12later on then so there you can see them
52:15in the back and where is the silhouette
52:16in relation to your mom and dad standing
52:20in front of my father
52:21okay so is is is a house this the what
52:26what lights are on on the ground level
52:28no he they cracked open the fridge a few
52:32times for light but the only light on
52:36the main floor was the one shining
52:38through the windows and doors
52:42the this number three guy you hear him
52:46speak what is woody what do you notice
52:48about or know about his his the words
52:52he's speaking accent if a it's um it's
52:58uh he's not from he wasn't the accents
53:04not what I normally hear it was almost
53:08Caribbean like Jamaican or dinies and
53:13like that kind of accent yep have you
53:18got friends who like reason ass shoes is
53:20the Jamaican accent or the Guyanese
53:22accent have you got friends who have
53:24that accent than you recognise it
53:25growing up there was growing up one of
53:30my friends was from guy Guyana and uh I
53:34remember vaguely like when his parents
53:37came for her school functions it was
53:41sort of something like that so it's
53:44tweaking you to some a carrot like a
53:46Western Caribbean island area is I think
53:48Jamaica or or Guyana something like that
53:53okay so you hear him talk and he
53:56described his silhouette to me but you
53:58see of it all I could see is that he's
54:01slim and tall again I was doing the
54:06floor but no race he it was dark but I
54:15you can't put a race to him not with I
54:18don't want to put a race with voice I
54:20want to race by color I could not see it
54:24was dark I could not see his face okay
54:27and now number two okay you say that
54:32doors fridge doors where does he come
54:34into play where do you first see him I
54:36first see him when he is asking my
54:38mother where her purse is and they kept
54:43telling us that if we just cooperated
54:45everything be okay
54:47she I just just interrupt you because we
54:51I want to stay on get back to three
54:52before we move on to
54:54is three one is number three how is his
54:56interaction with their father when he's
54:58telling him about demanding the money
55:00and the only money and not lying damn is
55:02this like is he talking in a low
55:05monotone voice or is he yelling at him
55:07how is the house the interaction boy a
55:13stern voice Stern but not screaming not
55:18angry okay
55:22so I interrupted you now back to number
55:24two where he's asking your mom for her
55:27wallet her purse her purse at first and
55:31this is at the point where my mother
55:32stands up and that's when I saw that's
55:36when I saw her clothes again okay at
55:39this point of the night obviously and
55:42what is she wearing
55:43she's still wearing her we need the Pooh
55:44pajamas as she was when I had come down
55:47earlier okay and all I could see was
55:55that he had pushed her back onto the
56:00couch I said we pushed her number two
56:02okay
56:03he was pushing her back onto the couch
56:05and she she kept saying where's my purse
56:08where's my purse I think I can't tell
56:12you and sit down and
56:19how many times does she get up and get
56:21pushed back down I think she got up
56:31twice
56:35and then they told it's the first time
56:37she stepped back and sat down but the
56:40second time she was pushed back mentally
56:42out this is only by number two yes
56:45because number one was standing behind
56:47me is he saying anything during this
56:49process
56:50he keeps uttering that we have to hurry
56:54up it's taking too long and that's at
56:59that point that's he kept saying hurry
57:01up it's taking too long
57:04is there any other demands from either
57:07two or three one about about wallet or
57:11purse is there any other two was the one
57:14talking to my father asking about his
57:16wallet and number one and he kept saying
57:19where's the rest of the money and
57:21where's the purse was coming from number
57:24one number one behind you it's I thought
57:28that number number two didn't speak okay
57:31well you just said number two is the one
57:33who's making demands no he's the one
57:35looking okay he's the one looking so
57:38number two as we we're stepping back to
57:41because I don't want to confuse this
57:42thing I want to slow no no don't be
57:45sorry we're just gonna slow it down okay
57:47you're you're getting agitated and and
57:49and you're anxious so we're gonna slow
57:53things down again because it's very
57:55important in this area right as you had
57:57said that number two talks to your mom
58:01and says where's your purse and pushes
58:05her down so now you said that number two
58:08didn't speak so let's clarify that what
58:11I meant was number one had asked her
58:12where her purse was and she was mumbling
58:14where is my purse
58:16and number two was the one that pushed
58:18her so your number number one is talking
58:20to your mom from behind you okay where's
58:24your purse where's your purse yes she
58:27gets up and number two number two steps
58:30forward
58:32that's when my mom steps back and sits
58:34down as number two uttered a word at
58:38this point in time I can't remember
58:41hearing him okay so we're just
58:44correcting what you said earlier because
58:46you said earlier that it was number two
58:47who was asking where the purse is one of
58:49the purses and now you've said now it's
58:51number one guy who would know it's all a
58:56purpose but the purpose here is
58:58clarifying what you're saying so number
59:00one number one is the one who's doing
59:04the talking about the purse
59:05number three is focused on your dad's
59:08wallet okay number two pushes your mom
59:12back into place into the scene now at
59:15this point in time can you see number
59:16two can you see his description at this
59:19point in time all I could see is a
59:21hoodie and slim build hoodie and slim
59:23build do you see a gun on him I'm on the
59:27floor I can't see what like what his
59:30hands were doing when you say you're on
59:32the floor how are you on the floor how
59:34are you what do you have what's your
59:35position are you lying on the floor you
59:37sitting on the floor I'm sitting on the
59:38floor cross-legged when with the number
59:44one behind me okay
59:47so you've now you've now got your dad
59:53like who's told him about the wallet
59:56upstairs with $60 you got your mom who's
59:59there asking about a purse I get from
1:00:00number one let's go from there how was
1:00:07your mom dealing with this when she's
1:00:08getting up and getting pushed back down
1:00:10a she responding to them is she talking
1:00:12to them she keeps saying cuz they keep
1:00:15uttering if you cooperate no one will
1:00:18get hurt
1:00:18and she keeps asking herself where's my
1:00:27purse where's my purse in English
1:00:35and then I believe she remembers that
1:00:38she didn't take her purse out she only
1:00:40had a wallet that day after she came
1:00:44home she had a wallet just trying to
1:00:48find it and number two was looking
1:00:50around for it was she up helping to look
1:00:53for it that the second time that's when
1:00:56she stood up to help and that's when she
1:00:58got pushed back down okay are they bound
1:01:04do you see their hands or my mother when
1:01:07she got up I sure was not bound okay so
1:01:12do they direct number two to where this
1:01:13will hurt that where the wallet is where
1:01:15does he find it that you know I don't
1:01:19okay so then what happens and then
1:01:24number one tells me to stand up and
1:01:28because I'm crossing on the floor I with
1:01:30my hands on my back I couldn't get up
1:01:32very well and so he kind of he was one
1:01:37hand he kind of pulled me up and he said
1:01:44come here you didn't say who or what he
1:01:49just had come here and he brought me
1:01:53upstairs he said you're gonna take me to
1:01:55the wallet show me where your father's
1:01:58wallet where does he keep his wallet
1:02:09and at this point number two had come
1:02:11upstairs and since he was upstairs
1:02:16you're just turning this off get this
1:02:18going number two
1:02:19sorry sir let's start there hang on a
1:02:21second again come with me come with me
1:02:23they take me to my parents room and I
1:02:27can see the that is turned over and
1:02:30everything's all right and you're with
1:02:32number one is still behind me yes and
1:02:35number two at the point is on his way up
1:02:38okay so he's not up there yet okay do
1:02:42you hear any interaction going on
1:02:43between your parents and number three
1:02:45can you hear anything
1:02:54I don't recall anything okay so you get
1:02:56to the top of the stairs and he takes me
1:02:59to my parents room where are you
1:03:00standing at first I'll standing at the
1:03:02doorway like in the middle of the
1:03:04doorway and then he pushed me aside to
1:03:06my left a little so that number two can
1:03:09come in okay you get a good look at
1:03:11number two now of what he's wearing
1:03:13I could tell was he had a vest and his
1:03:16face was like a long oval face he had a
1:03:19vest no hoodie okay uh dark hoodie okay
1:03:25it was there anything on his face or
1:03:27wizard could you see his face again he
1:03:30kept telling me to keep my head down and
1:03:31every time I tried to he use his hand
1:03:34and he'd cuz he had me by my shoulder he
1:03:37kind of just let go for a second push my
1:03:39head down to make sure I wouldn't look
1:03:41up okay is the word you know what the
1:03:44light what did the light see you said
1:03:45her in the hallway upstairs were on are
1:03:46they on still yes okay when you're
1:03:49looking down can you see what number one
1:03:51is wearing on his pants or his shoes he
1:03:54was not directly behind me and I was
1:03:59there was just so much in front of me
1:04:01that had happened and I don't recall
1:04:04okay so where are you facing if you're
1:04:08at the doorway you're looking in are the
1:04:11lights to your mom and dad's room on are
1:04:14you now facing into the room and what do
1:04:18you see you said you saw the bed turned
1:04:19up so it turned so the room has been
1:04:22rummaged through is is what you're is
1:04:24that the state of your parents room okay
1:04:26it was it like they had flipped a bit
1:04:29okay
1:04:30and when you say you moved to the left
1:04:33are you still able to look inside the
1:04:34bedroom where do they have you look
1:04:38where are you looking now almost like
1:04:40I'm right beside the wall and my parents
1:04:42have a my mother has a sewing table
1:04:45there okay so I'm just staring it I'm
1:04:49like looking down at the table in
1:04:51peripherals you can't see where it where
1:04:54he's and where is number one at this
1:04:57point you still behind me okay
1:04:59so what's going on inside the room with
1:05:01number two now in there he's looking for
1:05:04my parents my father's jeans they need
1:05:05give me where is it but I don't know
1:05:08where it is because they had turned the
1:05:10room around and then number one pulled
1:05:16me backwards and told me to sit at the
1:05:19top of the banister and tied my hands
1:05:22back tied my arm to the banister okay
1:05:26now did did you see them recover
1:05:29anything inside your mom and dad's room
1:05:31I don't see anything No
1:05:35are you sure because we went when we
1:05:38spoke the last time there was some
1:05:40mention of some other money that went
1:05:41missing
1:05:52they were yes the US currency so how did
1:05:59that get found
1:06:12I believe when they were looking for my
1:06:14father's wallet they had opened the
1:06:16drawer and there was it was in an
1:06:20envelope
1:06:21what drawer would that have been in on
1:06:23my on the loo if you're in at the door
1:06:28we were all standing on the left side
1:06:29the bedside table
1:06:31whose side of the bed is it that's my
1:06:34mother's side of it okay
1:06:36and approximately how much money I'm not
1:06:41sure how much she took out for our our
1:06:43trip but I can I can only estimate about
1:06:49a few hundred dollars a few hundred
1:06:51because at the time the last time we
1:06:53told me you were pretty adamant about
1:06:54eleven hundred dollars so I'm curious to
1:06:56know how you came up with that number I
1:07:03believe is when we were at the border we
1:07:07and we stopped at the duty-free one
1:07:09mother was deciding whether to use her
1:07:11US currency or her Oh her US currency or
1:07:15her Canadian currency so it was at that
1:07:19time you remember hearing eleven hundred
1:07:21dollars and that's what is that the
1:07:23inference you're saying is that because
1:07:25you're pretty solid saying that it was
1:07:27eleven hundred dollars that went missing
1:07:29Beckworth was taken and that you saw it
1:07:33when we spoke
1:07:39and who took it who took possession of
1:07:42the money were you ever inside the room
1:07:50did they ever take you inside the room
1:07:52did you ever make it past the threshold
1:07:54of that door
1:08:08okay so let's come back to now you're
1:08:12being taken to the Bannister in the
1:08:14don't apologize okay I'm gonna try and
1:08:18ask you questions to try and clarify
1:08:19points okay if you don't remember you
1:08:22don't remember okay so don't there's no
1:08:26apologizing the only reason you would
1:08:27apologize to me is if you lied to me
1:08:29okay so then in this case then don't
1:08:33apologize to me it's okay okay I'm gonna
1:08:35ask you questions to clarify points so
1:08:39you're at the bit you've been taken back
1:08:40to the Bannister who was there number
1:08:43one okay where's number two he was still
1:08:46in the bedroom okay how do you get tied
1:08:51to this Bannister
1:09:01he number one remember - it come out of
1:09:07come out of the room
1:09:09and he had told number to go get cozy
1:09:16for this drink up
1:09:17no it was okay cuz
1:09:26yeah I said that I need this string go
1:09:30get cuz and number two ran down the
1:09:33stairs and he came back up shortly after
1:09:35and then
1:09:52and I believe number two is the one that
1:09:54tied me up because number one was still
1:09:57holding the gun in front of me so number
1:10:00one is now in front of you he has been
1:10:01in front of me since he pulled me out of
1:10:03the bedroom okay and he sat me down and
1:10:05he was in front of me making sure I was
1:10:08down so on this gun that you're looking
1:10:10at that's in front of you is there can
1:10:12you see what type of gun is it does it
1:10:14have a cylinder or round thing like an
1:10:15old gun or does it look like more like
1:10:17ah it just reminded me of the like
1:10:21television police like the handguns yeah
1:10:25yeah okay and it's black can you see
1:10:29from there now you're in front of them
1:10:31and you're looking down can you see his
1:10:32shoes can you see anything else about
1:10:34them I want you to think right now just
1:10:35true it's tough to put yourself back in
1:10:38that spot but you've never been tied up
1:10:40I suspect or bound like that and now
1:10:42you're sitting there staring down can
1:10:44you is there anything that you remember
1:10:45about his shoes or his pants
1:10:56any idea where this string came from it
1:10:59does it does it well you're you're
1:11:01seeing it come around because it's now
1:11:03lit does it look like it's come from
1:11:05some from clothing or from shoes that
1:11:08you might have in your house
1:11:10or you don't know it just it just looked
1:11:15like a black shoelace I'm okay any
1:11:22interaction any communication going on
1:11:25between you and number one and number
1:11:26two while this is being while you're
1:11:28being bound my mother is calling for me
1:11:31okay
1:11:32and they keep saying that just shut up
1:11:39who's saying that to who number three is
1:11:43downstairs are just telling her to shut
1:11:44up just tell him to shut up what's your
1:11:46dad doing
1:11:47I can't hear me okay you're now bound to
1:11:54this to the to the railing can you show
1:11:57me can you stand up and turn around and
1:11:59tell me just show on the camera how your
1:12:01hands are bound and how you are against
1:12:05the railing you don't have to sit down I
1:12:06just need to see how you were
1:12:16the only reason that I'm trying to I
1:12:18need to do this is that I'm also gonna
1:12:20Asha is that it so take this back to
1:12:22from take it out of a traumatizing event
1:12:25which it is and put yourself into a more
1:12:27clinical position because I want to see
1:12:29how you could physically get your phone
1:12:31out of your waistband we're obviously
1:12:33going to need to know that it's very
1:12:34important so traumatize a why way now
1:12:38put yourself into a just a state of I
1:12:40need to man it mechanically show how I
1:12:43can get access to my phone okay because
1:12:45that's obviously very relevant we know
1:12:47you made the phone call but questions
1:12:50are gonna obviously raise is that if my
1:12:52hands are bound and I'm against the
1:12:54railing how do i talk to a 9-1-1
1:12:56operator okay
1:12:57so clinically this is now a clinical
1:13:00demonstration just stand up focus in on
1:13:04how you did it and I want you to stick
1:13:11that in your waistband as an example
1:13:13okay so take your just take your sweater
1:13:15off because this will be a very smooth
1:13:16very quick thing it's a one-time
1:13:18demonstration I'm not gonna ask you to
1:13:20repeat it but I need to go through it
1:13:22okay so just take your sweater off
1:13:32stand up and turn around put this in the
1:13:37side that you believe it was in great
1:13:41turn around so that only you're looking
1:13:44away from me you're looking exactly like
1:13:45now here is where the banister is put
1:13:48your hands back behind your back basic
1:13:50exactly how you remember they were okay
1:13:53no and the ER you restrained from
1:13:56movement how far can you move your hands
1:13:57from the banister they tied my upper arm
1:14:02yes around the banister yes but my hands
1:14:06were bound together so your hands bound
1:14:08together and this is the arm that's the
1:14:10the strings wrapped around against the
1:14:11banister okay so now how can you get to
1:14:14the phone and how do you make the phone
1:14:19call 9-1-1 and do you talk down like
1:14:27that yes I'm yelling at the phone like
1:14:29this and how can you hear I turned the
1:14:33volume on max yes so that's exactly the
1:14:37way that you're talking to her against
1:14:39the railing okay that's good enough sit
1:14:42down put your sweater back on just put
1:14:48your swing yeah yeah you want it you
1:14:53want some more water
1:14:57I really appreciate that obviously it's
1:15:00very important to see it because we
1:15:01can't put UV that we would be absolutely
1:15:03physically impossible to put you back in
1:15:07the same position but we just needed to
1:15:10see how you get the phone out and and
1:15:13make the call
1:15:21okay so sit back take a couple of deep
1:15:24breaths again when you're when you're up
1:15:34against the railing and now you've been
1:15:36bound and is number two and number one
1:15:41still there or are they gone what is
1:15:47number ones is he saying anything to you
1:15:50he's saying you obeyed and just shut up
1:15:56and don't move and you continues yelling
1:16:03downstairs hurry up hurry up is taking
1:16:07too long hurry up
1:16:15now tell me something okay which is kind
1:16:18of important there's a safe in the
1:16:21houses they're not
1:16:26safe is in a fairly visible place within
1:16:30within your parents bedroom is it not
1:16:35fairly visible the court leased from the
1:16:38pitchers was there ever mention of
1:16:43wanting the combination to that safe
1:16:49through any of the interaction of one
1:16:52two and three did they know that there
1:16:53was a safe in place I don't I am not
1:16:59aware if they knew okay I didn't so you
1:17:05never heard any of them demanding the
1:17:06safe the the the the combination to the
1:17:09safe
1:17:13was there anything else they were
1:17:15demanding in there yelling yelling it
1:17:17was was it was what was the focus of
1:17:20what they were looking for cash cash
1:17:26okay so number ones talking to you you
1:17:30obeyed and we need to go we need to go
1:17:36and where does he go from that point in
1:17:39time he's yelling down the stairs
1:17:41is there more and number two I could
1:17:47just hear him muffling something I I
1:17:49don't hear him clearly number two or
1:17:52number three
1:17:53oh sorry number three number three
1:17:57number three okay it's just a Murr but I
1:18:03can't I can't hear what he's saying okay
1:18:11at this point I started hearing my
1:18:13parents get up and they're moving and my
1:18:17mom's yelling where's my daughter I want
1:18:20my daughter where's my daughter
1:18:26are they saying anything to your parents
1:18:29I know she's yelling to you okay she's
1:18:36yelling to you are they saying anything
1:18:44like are they giving them directions as
1:18:47to where they're going
1:19:07or can you remember okay so you hear
1:19:15them get up and you're moving and
1:19:17they're moving too in what direction
1:19:21towards the basement okay are you still
1:19:26hearing 1 & 2 or 1 & 3 are you hearing
1:19:28all three of them number one and what's
1:19:32he saying hurry up
1:19:34is there more
1:19:45okay
1:19:47at this point he throws my glasses and
1:19:54he walks down the stairs so he's still
1:19:57up there with you Wendy and and that
1:19:59this so you've had your glasses on the
1:20:01whole time when does he take them off
1:20:02right before he leaves right after so
1:20:06you're you're tied to the banister
1:20:07you're just before it he leaves to go
1:20:10down the stairs your glasses are off you
1:20:12have had your glasses on the whole time
1:20:13prior to that okay so now you hear your
1:20:21parents up and they're moving towards
1:20:23the basement do you what do you hear
1:20:26where's the rest of the money
1:20:33whose voice well with the Caribbean
1:20:38accent number three who we've called
1:20:41number three yeah where's the rest of
1:20:43the money is that as your as you hear
1:20:46your parents moving I can hear them
1:20:48stepping down the stairs okay then after
1:20:54number one joins them after he took my
1:20:57glasses you heard him go down the stairs
1:21:00as well number one then left me yes and
1:21:04he went down the stairs and I asked my
1:21:07mom was still calling for me and I
1:21:09wanted to go and he says no okay hang on
1:21:18a second hang on
1:21:22so number you hear number one say no to
1:21:25your response to your demand of wanting
1:21:27to go do you hear the questions coming
1:21:30or your mum saying where is she where is
1:21:31she
1:21:32are she starting to maker are they
1:21:34starting to go down to the basement are
1:21:35they on the stairs leading to the
1:21:36basement
1:21:38can you hear I'm gonna ask you to focus
1:21:41in because it's very difficult I'm gonna
1:21:43ask you to focus in are you hearing all
1:21:45of them going downstairs can you hear
1:21:49that many footstep that's five sets of
1:21:52steps because if your mum is moving down
1:22:01to the basement with these guys and
1:22:02number one is walking down to join them
1:22:04he would be but he would be later he'd
1:22:06be walking down does he go down to the
1:22:08basement or do you know can't tell here
1:22:19Jennifer take your Kleenex just take a
1:22:24minute
1:22:39okay so we're now down in the basement
1:22:43they're down in the video know your
1:22:44parents are down in the basement you
1:22:46don't know who's down there with them
1:22:48you can't tell how many people went down
1:22:50you know that lumber one left and was
1:22:53heading in down in that direction but
1:22:54you don't know by footsteps who's down
1:22:57there
1:22:58that's all right whose voices can you
1:23:01hear now down in the basement three say
1:23:12you lied there's more where is it you
1:23:15like your life
1:23:24okay and then what are you here
1:23:44[Music]
1:23:48hey you heard pop my mom squeal so do
1:24:01you hear one pop where do you hear -
1:24:04then don't
1:24:05it's it's one or two okay and then you
1:24:09hear your mom squeal and then what are
1:24:13you hear another one or two pops do you
1:24:22hear any voices in between other than
1:24:23your mom squealing do you hear number
1:24:24three say anything okay
1:24:31don't apologize
1:24:34okay this is nothing to feel it to
1:24:36apologize to me for this is it something
1:24:37that you're trying to remember so your
1:24:40heard a pop you heard your mom squeal
1:24:43and then you heard another any idea how
1:24:47many more pops you heard I just remember
1:24:52that I heard one or two and then there
1:24:54was sight break and there was one more I
1:25:02don't remember
1:25:03- and then break and then one or if it
1:25:05was one in the break and then one okay
1:25:08so you're saying that you whole heard a
1:25:10total of how many pops guessing
1:25:19four or five okay so you here after
1:25:23those pops popping noises
1:25:26what do you hear after the last popping
1:25:29noise you've heard what do you hear
1:25:30that's it it's too long it's coke number
1:25:37one that's it it's too long let's go
1:25:41okay let's go it does it sound like
1:25:52they're obviously coming does it sound
1:25:54coming up the stairs do you know where
1:25:56they leave
1:26:05Hey I believe they went out the front
1:26:10door okay but I couldn't see anything
1:26:13thank you what I heard so what you're
1:26:15hearing what else do you hear next
1:26:19I heard what's the door closed terribly
1:26:23father he ran up the stairs and all I
1:26:26could hear it was mone yeah what they
1:26:32heard him starting to move that's what I
1:26:34pulled out the phone trying to call nine
1:26:36one okay
1:26:43did you hear after you hear that's it
1:26:46let's go do you hear any more
1:26:47communication between the three guys
1:26:58okay
1:27:07okay so you were dialing 911 you called
1:27:09the police know you're on the phone with
1:27:11the dispatcher you're updating them as
1:27:13to what goes on yeah
1:27:19I heard my dad coming out the door
1:27:21anything yelling on this street okay no
1:27:26calling for him just badly I've tried
1:27:36so when the officers arrived how do you
1:27:42get untied
1:27:58do you remember first they were all
1:28:00outside I I'm screaming for them
1:28:03yeah and finally someone heard me they
1:28:09came up the stairs first they had to
1:28:16check all the rooms first but I just
1:28:18wanted them to get me out
1:28:30so they how did they get you free then
1:28:36you grabbed a pair of scissors from my
1:28:39room but the officer said to wait a few
1:28:43minutes because he didn't know how he
1:29:00cut me he let me go but he cut cut
1:29:13now you when you took are you off your
1:29:17sweater to show me the demonstration
1:29:18there's still some marks on your arm
1:29:20are those the marks from the string no
1:29:24where are they from
1:29:27okay so history wise we'll go into that
1:29:30okay so now as an event as to try and
1:29:37see this is the little Epis the little
1:29:41technique that we use to try and see if
1:29:44there's something during the course of
1:29:45what you've told me that boom I trigger
1:29:49something another memory okay we're
1:29:51gonna start right now we're gonna start
1:29:54at the point that you're being you're
1:29:56the officers arrive okay and we're going
1:30:00backwards
1:30:01not nearly as I don't need you to go
1:30:03into the we're not gonna be stopping
1:30:05here and going through - what about this
1:30:07and what about this it's you may come
1:30:10across something it's the reverse
1:30:12chronology of what you just described
1:30:14okay
1:30:15leading us back to the time Aaron
1:30:19upstairs talking to Edward so I want you
1:30:23to start right now with your police
1:30:25officers arrived and they're cutting you
1:30:27free and now let's start going backwards
1:30:29from that
1:30:57thank you just don't wanna see you wrong
1:31:02Thanks don't this is don't worry about
1:31:07saying wrong things because you'll be
1:31:08clean you'll be corrected a measure
1:31:09moving through moving backwards okay
1:31:11it's a very well practice technique to
1:31:14help in memories so especially in
1:31:16traumatic events so my dad was he had
1:31:28been out the door yes and he was
1:31:34mourning
1:31:43and just before that they had left
1:31:46though people had left
1:32:14number one heads head it's been too long
1:32:20let's go
1:32:31before that was a gunshot
1:32:39or that they were scolding my dad for
1:32:41life there was more money and he wasn't
1:32:44telling don't worry it was
1:33:04before that
1:33:10they were going down
1:33:17you're doing great okay you're doing
1:33:19great just before that they were going
1:33:28down the stairs but I could just hear my
1:33:33parents footsteps and my mom so I don't
1:33:37know how many of them went down but I
1:33:41know for sure number one was upstairs
1:33:43with me while they were starting to go
1:33:46down and then number one that's when
1:33:51like he was taking off my glasses that's
1:33:53when he went down the stairs
1:34:16before that
1:34:22they tied me
1:34:34[Music]
1:34:36before that number two is upstairs as
1:34:39well and he was helping number one tiny
1:34:43it's a banister before that number one
1:34:49turned to number two and said go get I
1:34:53need get me the string go get cut
1:35:03that's when number two went down the
1:35:06stairs and came back up with the
1:35:07strength
1:35:21before that number one had taken me and
1:35:26told me to sit down at the top of the
1:35:30stairs
1:35:32number two was still in the bedroom
1:36:02before that
1:36:24we were in my parents room and he was
1:36:28asking about the wallet where's my dad's
1:36:30wallet
1:36:38remember how they got the money
1:36:52don't worry about it keep going
1:37:04before that we always downstairs
1:37:08they're looking for my mom's purse
1:37:13number three was asking about the wallet
1:37:16number two was looking for my mom's
1:37:18purse I'm cat standing up and sitting
1:37:23down and it pushed her
1:37:44with that I was in my room
1:37:53that's when he tied me up
1:38:04but before that I showed him in the
1:38:06money before that I had heard them toss
1:38:11my parents room and that's when I looked
1:38:13out know the guy went down the stairs
1:38:15and then I looked out that's when he
1:38:23came and he pulled out his gun and told
1:38:25me to sit on my bed before that I heard
1:38:34my mom tell my dad to come downstairs
1:38:36and that's when I told ed I'd call him
1:38:41back and put my phone my phone in my
1:38:46back okay
1:38:50yes
1:38:53when you said that you saw during this
1:38:56process you heard the steps of the gut
1:38:58was someone going downstairs did you
1:38:59hear your father going down the stairs
1:39:02I'd ever at that point in time
1:39:15I heard him get out of his room but then
1:39:21that's when I was telling ed that I'd
1:39:22call him back he was responding to your
1:39:26mum's command yes okay
1:39:35in your kitchen there is rear sliding
1:39:44doors is there not and you're in the
1:39:47back area to get it to the back of your
1:39:48house is it sliding glass doors how is
1:39:55that normally how do you what is the
1:39:57normal position of of the blinds or or
1:40:00whatever when you join the day do you
1:40:02keep them covered or they exposed can
1:40:05you easily have access to get out to the
1:40:07backyard or do you have to open them
1:40:09like how is the normal routine it
1:40:17differs from it differs from time of day
1:40:23and time of year my mom
1:40:34my mother likes to plant so in the
1:40:38daytime we have our blinds open they're
1:40:43all the way out but they're open until
1:40:45that sunlight in and at night we closed
1:40:48them because of our backyard neighbors
1:40:53okay
1:40:56the sliding glass door is it locked all
1:41:00the time
1:41:01[Music]
1:41:02occasionally it's forgotten to be locked
1:41:07but for the most part we do check it
1:41:10before we go to bed before everybody the
1:41:13last person is supposed to check
1:41:14everything before turning in but on some
1:41:17occasions it's how do you know that it's
1:41:20been unlocked when my mother goes out to
1:41:23water the plants the next morning it's
1:41:25open she makes a comment about that is
1:41:28she comments to my father that he had
1:41:30forgotten when he went out to water his
1:41:32grass and the night before what about
1:41:36your front door how do you what is that
1:41:38when you guys are home or when you guys
1:41:42are home in the house do lock your front
1:41:44door do you keep it already you keep it
1:41:46all unlocked occasionally it's left
1:41:51unlocked because
1:41:56the way our family is we have that me
1:41:59that come over after dinner so sometimes
1:42:01we leave the door unlocked but it will
1:42:03always be locked before bed
1:42:05the last person going to bed the last
1:42:07person always locks it and you said
1:42:10something about activates the alarm as
1:42:13well we activate the alarm before we go
1:42:17well we leave the house so there's it's
1:42:19not activated when you're in the house
1:42:21and you're going to bed it's only when
1:42:23there's no one in the house yeah
1:42:35when was the last time that you went out
1:42:37through the back the back sliding glass
1:42:39doors
1:42:39that you remember
1:42:46Oh while I'd say the only time I go back
1:42:52there is if I'm barbecuing the occasion
1:42:59my mom needs help carrying I she needs
1:43:07help carrying something heavy
1:43:08okay what about a stranger's knock on
1:43:13your door
1:43:18whoever's downstairs no when he goes to
1:43:21answer the door will it look out or will
1:43:24they just open the door no they tried to
1:43:27look through the Sheerness of our
1:43:29curtain would you have you ever heard of
1:43:33your mum or dad like if there's someone
1:43:35at the door who they don't recognize to
1:43:36go away and they won't open the door
1:43:38or will they always open the door to
1:43:40find it who even if they don't recognize
1:43:41someone well they tried to go as quietly
1:43:43as possible and if they don't like a
1:43:47telemarketer or something they just walk
1:43:48away okay so I think we've if there's
1:43:57something else that I can peddle that
1:43:58pops into my head while I or when I go
1:44:00out to talk to them later just something
1:44:03else that they want to ask me I'll come
1:44:04back to it what I want to do now is I
1:44:07want to go into your past okay and start
1:44:14talking about things that have been
1:44:15going on with you in in relation to your
1:44:20life okay you know not I'm not going
1:44:24back to childhood that's not my interest
1:44:26is obviously in the last few years is
1:44:30what's going on do you have a boyfriend
1:44:32I had a boyfriend what was your
1:44:38boyfriend's name Daniel what tell me
1:44:42about your relationship with you and
1:44:44Daniel
1:44:48was a really tough one we went to high
1:44:53school together
1:44:54he helped me through a really difficult
1:44:56time in high school when I have asthma
1:45:01but it it wasn't a concern it was only a
1:45:05concern when I was younger but when I
1:45:08went over to Europe a lot of sick people
1:45:13were smoking cigarettes and it acted up
1:45:15over there and he took care of me over
1:45:17there when did you go to Europe 2003
1:45:22okay and how long were you there for
1:45:28under two weeks I think okay so this is
1:45:322003 when you and Danny were two started
1:45:35dating okay what grade were you in at
1:45:40that so how does your relationship with
1:45:46Danny develop where is it going how long
1:45:49does it last nothing about six years um
1:45:54it began in the summer of 2003 before my
1:45:59grade 12 year we were just really good
1:46:02friends and I guess it just happened
1:46:06like we just started going out well
1:46:09saying that we were going out but um I
1:46:13didn't really get to see how much talk
1:46:16about that why do you get the chance to
1:46:17see him much I wasn't allowed to have a
1:46:21boyfriend and that was when you were 18
1:46:2617 turning it in your 18th year you are
1:46:30going to enjoy any big 12 okay and so
1:46:35who was against you having a boyfriend
1:46:37your father how is your mother in this
1:46:42she took a back seat to his opinion um
1:46:48she would tell me that I gotta find
1:46:51someone who was devoted to me
1:46:53but at that time she just my father was
1:46:57the one that enforced the rose and what
1:46:59were the issues your father had with a
1:47:01was it Danny in particular day or was it
1:47:03just a boy just any boy at that point so
1:47:08what happens how are you saying that
1:47:10you're not allowed to see this what what
1:47:12I know I know that there's certain ways
1:47:16that you can still get around your
1:47:17father not allowing you to see it when
1:47:20in grade 12 we were all together he
1:47:23transferred out but he'd come over to
1:47:27our original high school I need to come
1:47:29see me okay and once in a while I'd go
1:47:33and skip class and go see him so you
1:47:36were seeing you were dating him
1:47:38essentially without your parents
1:47:40knowledge and consent yes what would
1:47:42they have done to you if they found out
1:47:43and did they find it not in high school
1:47:47okay
1:47:48so you finished high school and then
1:47:51what do you do when you finish high
1:47:52school I was I wanted to do kinesiology
1:48:02but my my father was very adamant on
1:48:05doing something in the medical field
1:48:08that was a little bit more in his
1:48:13opinion more like a more successful I
1:48:18guess you can say he knew I didn't have
1:48:21the stomach for being a doctor um so he
1:48:24wanted me to become a pharmacist okay
1:48:26did you go to school for pharmacy to get
1:48:29in a university for pharmacy so if
1:48:32you're you finish your grade 12 you go
1:48:34to y-your oh I see you like grade 12 is
1:48:38your finish your oh I see here I don't
1:48:39have almost I didn't have always I
1:48:41finished my grade 12 and then where
1:48:43where do you what do you do for the next
1:48:45few years while your dad's want you to
1:48:47get into the medical field what do you
1:48:48do I was trying to get into piano what
1:48:53school I I was still taking classes out
1:48:56of considerate like a a school but it's
1:48:58still recognized in the community as a
1:49:00teacher's license through the Royal
1:49:02Conservatory yes okay so how is this
1:49:07interaction how is this going with your
1:49:09dad how is the how is your home life
1:49:11with the your not now not living up
1:49:15his expectations you didn't know I lied
1:49:17to him what did you lie to him what did
1:49:19you tell him that I was going to school
1:49:22for for just pretty much not pre-med
1:49:26sorry science for sorry Bachelor of
1:49:28Science you would have had bills for
1:49:32school how is how is that coming up how
1:49:34are these bills being paid for for
1:49:35university that you weren't going I was
1:49:37working at Eastside Mario's and I took
1:49:41care of myself so financially my father
1:49:45was never he never took hand in bills so
1:49:51he didn't know anything about bills did
1:49:53your mum know that you weren't going to
1:49:54university no so both your parents
1:49:57thought you had gone to university yes
1:49:59okay and how long did that how long did
1:50:05they still to this point in time think
1:50:06that you had gone to university for for
1:50:08pharmacy for Sciences and how did you
1:50:15feel about that how did you feel about
1:50:16having a lie to your parents I felt
1:50:18guilty but every time I tried to bring
1:50:21it up there was just so much so much
1:50:29expectation did you have any resentment
1:50:33towards them for this I chose what I
1:50:38chose but in the end I chose my family
1:50:42okay so now you're not allowed to see
1:50:46boys how do you continue really your
1:50:48relationship while you're supposed to be
1:50:50at university working at Eastside
1:50:51Mario's are you working during the day
1:50:52too you say Mario's um sometimes but not
1:50:55all the time so how did how do you
1:50:59maintain this relationship with whit Dan
1:51:01um I bust down to see him where my
1:51:05parents who drive me down to Toronto and
1:51:08they thought I was getting going to
1:51:10school but I'd go see him and I'd come
1:51:13back what school did they think you're
1:51:14going to Ryerson okay
1:51:19it was Daniel aware of what was going on
1:51:21in here with the issues in your life
1:51:23with your parents not at first but
1:51:25eventually
1:51:26found it okay and what would your
1:51:32parents do find out did they ever find
1:51:34out that you were dating Danny Daniel
1:51:35eventually well how long into their
1:51:37relationship was that say five years
1:51:40five years so that brings you up to 2008
1:51:44or 2009 doesn't 2007 seven okay and how
1:51:50do they find out my mother saw him
1:51:55dropping me off at a locate Pacific Mall
1:51:59where they come to pick me up and how
1:52:02did that go over know well explain to me
1:52:07what notwell means
1:52:13my mother she said at first she was like
1:52:20not supportive but she said you need to
1:52:23tell me and she basically gave me the
1:52:28the sex talk which basically was one
1:52:31moment could ruin your entire life but
1:52:36once my father found out without even
1:52:39knowing him he automatically put
1:52:42judgment what kind of judgment did your
1:52:44father pass on him he blamed my line and
1:52:51even racial profiling on him and what
1:52:58does that mean I don't know about the
1:53:00racial profile he is half Filipino half
1:53:03Chinese
1:53:04yes and my father associated him with
1:53:08Filipino and said that you know he
1:53:11wasn't a good match for me he wasn't
1:53:14going anywhere in life and that he
1:53:20wouldn't be able to support a family so
1:53:25tell me about about Daniel we've
1:53:29interviewed Daniel okay so tell me about
1:53:32Daniel
1:54:52he was I believe selling selling selling
1:54:57from marijuana I believe okay you
1:55:01weren't aware that he was up to this
1:55:03type of business is that what yours is
1:55:05that what you're saying to me yes so
1:55:08when he is well your parents find out
1:55:14what happens to you at home they pretty
1:55:21much make sure that I wouldn't contact
1:55:25him again and how do they do that they
1:55:28take away my cell phone and restrict
1:55:31internet access like they have to be in
1:55:34the room or not at all do you have a
1:55:38curfew if I go out with a friend that
1:55:42they know I have to be home before 9:00
1:55:44for nine o'clock yes and is that even up
1:55:48until Monday did you have a curfew up
1:55:52until Monday uh technically but I don't
1:55:55I haven't gone out for a while and why
1:55:57is it that you haven't got anything
1:56:00because they gave me an ultimatum to
1:56:03either choose Daniel or to choose them
1:56:06about a year and a half ago or to you
1:56:09about a year and a half ago and I chose
1:56:12to stay home with my family but even
1:56:15though he had moved on I still wanted to
1:56:20be friends we went through a lot I was
1:56:24there for him and he was there for me
1:56:27when we needed each other so I whenever
1:56:30I could I would sneak a phone call here
1:56:32at the snake a phone call there might
1:56:35ask a friend of mine to pick me up and
1:56:37take me to see him and then take me back
1:56:41who was that friend uh Gary Gary Gary
1:56:46Gibson Gibson I met Gary through Daniel
1:56:51and he he picked me up and took me to
1:56:56see Daniel and he made sure I got home
1:56:58afterwards so tell me about how come
1:57:02your parents allow you to speak to
1:57:05Edward
1:57:06- Adrienne in fact allow Adrienne into
1:57:08the house Adrienne has been a friend of
1:57:10mine since beginning of high school he
1:57:17my parents agree with his how do I
1:57:23explain this he went to school for
1:57:25engineering he has a job and his mother
1:57:31was is a piano teacher as well like
1:57:34myself so in their eyes he had like well
1:57:40a well-rounded life and because he
1:57:44didn't he took me out once like once in
1:57:48a while but not really but because he he
1:57:51has a car of his own so he comes over
1:57:53therefore they were able to interact
1:57:56with him and accepted him okay what
1:57:59about Edward um Edward was an old
1:58:03co-worker of mine
1:58:05Edward only met my mom once at a gym
1:58:08when we went to the gym I introduced him
1:58:12to my mom but he he only stops by while
1:58:17my parents are not home for about an
1:58:20hour so just to catch up but I haven't
1:58:23gone out to actually like we talked on
1:58:26the phone but that's pretty much I tried
1:58:29to meet him at the gym but that's so for
1:58:32the last year and a half since you chose
1:58:34the ultimatum was given to you as use in
1:58:36your words
1:58:37it's either Daniel and/or your family
1:58:41yes and you say that you chose your
1:58:43family and you stayed home what have you
1:58:45been when you say I stayed home what is
1:58:48your routine tell me for the last year
1:58:50and a half what what have you been doing
1:58:52I have been continuing my piano studies
1:58:55and my parents enrolled me back into
1:58:59school into college into college at
1:59:02first I didn't have enough marks to get
1:59:04into the program I wanted so I had to do
1:59:07one year of like refresher course of a
1:59:10calculus high school credit and they
1:59:12never said to you you can get in and
1:59:17graduate with a science degree
1:59:20but you can't take that and now get in
1:59:23they never question you about College
1:59:25now you can't you don't have the marks
1:59:26to get into college how did you get
1:59:27around that I lied to them and said that
1:59:32calculus wasn't a big thing when I have
1:59:35first applied when science but now
1:59:38calculus is more of a mandatory course
1:59:41what and when was this happening that
1:59:46you were going back to school I went
1:59:50back last summer what switch college I I
1:59:54went to high school yes school program
1:59:57is that great believe it's babe ah very
2:00:03bottom on steel then debut and you
2:00:06graduated with that yard you've
2:00:08completed the credit upgrading my mark
2:00:11and have you did you apply to college
2:00:13yes and you were accepted accepted for
2:00:16January at which College Centennial
2:00:18College okay in what program bio bio
2:00:24technology biotechnology engineering
2:00:27okay so the last year and a half you've
2:00:34been doing your piano studies yes what
2:00:38is your routine a daily routine for the
2:00:41last year and a half and you say that I
2:00:42chose my family I chose to stay home
2:00:44well at first I continued phone contact
2:00:49with Daniel but that only lasted about
2:00:54one time I like I told you Gary came to
2:00:57pick me up to go see Daniel and I got
2:01:00caught and that's when they took away my
2:01:06cell phone and they said that they drive
2:01:09me places and so pretty much I wake up I
2:01:13do my piano studies I may go see my
2:01:17teacher for lessons at first they took
2:01:21me but then once my teacher was like
2:01:24yeah she's with me I was able to go and
2:01:27see him at his house once a week
2:01:31sometimes it was once every other week
2:01:33if he was busy
2:01:34and then I had another studies at a
2:01:38place called euro music for the actual
2:01:40pedagogy course which is the actual
2:01:42teaching course mm-hmm
2:01:44and I went to those two classes once a
2:01:47week as well and pretty much it was home
2:01:51helped up with housework and practice my
2:01:55piano and just wait for the college
2:01:59application college acceptance and did
2:02:02you go out were you allowed to go out at
2:02:03night I don't go out no the only time I
2:02:07went up was last time I went out was for
2:02:13my my birthday and I was able we could
2:02:24go to go see my friend on Halloween my
2:02:28mom would help do a dance dance dance or
2:02:32Saturday night not how do we make those
2:02:34home weekend Saturday night my friend
2:02:37topaz and I had made plans but my
2:02:40grandfather we wanted to go skating
2:02:42because I love to skate and since they
2:02:45know topaz and they like they confirmed
2:02:50that she was in fact going with me to
2:02:52skating and they have a number to call
2:02:54her to make sure I was there and got a
2:02:58call when I got to her house I got there
2:03:02and because I had like my friends know
2:03:04that my grandfather was ill and that I
2:03:06wasn't 100% sure she did she had to talk
2:03:09but she wasn't fine
2:03:11yes hotel a visitor so we could say
2:03:20[Music]
2:03:23there's other phones that day degeneracy
2:03:28how long do you are you able to keep up
2:03:30from your parents attention and how long
2:03:34were you and how old you have that help
2:03:40you've had it for three months last
2:03:43three months when do you switch from
2:03:46just using the phone to just pulling the
2:03:48SIM card okay so this SIM card that you
2:04:01say was in your jacket pocket which
2:04:03jacket is it that you're talking about
2:04:09yes and the last time you knew about it
2:04:14it was inside that jacket jacket yeah
2:04:16and you believed you would believe
2:04:17there's no reason why it wouldn't still
2:04:19be there yes okay and where would that
2:04:22jacket be located either hanging in my
2:04:26room were hanging behind by the garage
2:04:30the door mudroom area what we call a
2:04:32mudroom area the garage door is it a
2:04:34laundry room where there's where you
2:04:35come in from the garage yeah okay it's
2:04:39like a little nook look there's no the
2:04:41laundry is dead laundry dancing okay
2:04:47Danny Danny and his activities his drug
2:04:53related activities did you ever engage
2:04:56or assist him in this in this practice
2:04:58no I told him I did not want anything to
2:05:01do with it it's a tough question right
2:05:07is that are you involved in any type of
2:05:10illegal activity that would draw the
2:05:14attention of these type of people to
2:05:16come to your house looking for something
2:05:18I have never what about your parents not
2:05:22to my knowledge
2:05:23well not to your knowledge like are your
2:05:27parents
2:05:28is there any source of money coming into
2:05:30your house that is unaccounted for No
2:05:35would it be something that your parents
2:05:37would engage in gambling or illegal or
2:05:40legal drug activity well not I helped my
2:05:44mother with all the bills and everything
2:05:46and nothing she never does it have like
2:05:49anything how new was that basement like
2:05:54the setup of the basement he moved in in
2:06:012004 I believe we moved in for about a
2:06:05year so I'd say either 2005 or 2006 they
2:06:11moved and and at that time the basement
2:06:17was completed yes well your parents
2:06:19working at both at that time when we
2:06:25first moved in in 2004 my father was
2:06:27unemployed he had got laid off from
2:06:30magna yep my mother had transferred up
2:06:33to a place in Newmarket then my father
2:06:37found the job at where he's he was
2:06:40currently working at Colby and still and
2:06:44then about the year my mother got laid
2:06:51off gold even 2008 or so and she's been
2:07:00looking for a job in you know home now
2:07:05[Music]
2:07:10after talking to Daniel and when's the
2:07:13last time you you you text message are
2:07:15communicated with him was when my
2:07:17grandfather was ill have you have you
2:07:21been experiencing anything where you
2:07:24would call it in the last little while
2:07:25of any type of threats or threatening
2:07:28behavior yes tell me about that um his I
2:07:34don't well he says it's just a friend
2:07:37but everyone says it's his girlfriend
2:07:39she has messaged me telling me to back
2:07:44off to leave Danielle alone and he's
2:07:49messaged me and he's like is that you
2:07:51calling but I wasn't calling or I'd be
2:07:53on the phone with him he's at your other
2:07:54my Rogers line because I called him on
2:07:57the phone he gave me yes and he say that
2:08:01my Rogers line was calling him and when
2:08:04I looked into it it was like I'm on my
2:08:08bills those phone calls were made but I
2:08:10know I didn't make them so I I couldn't
2:08:15explain it and I did get a letter in the
2:08:19mail saying that you're a dead person
2:08:22walking now why didn't you tell me about
2:08:27that that's when I spoke to you the
2:08:30other day
2:08:30I everything had just happened I wasn't
2:08:38it was it just simply a letter yes it
2:08:41was a cutout where is that letter it's
2:08:46garbage it's in the garbage yes
2:08:50I didn't think too much of it at the
2:08:54time and what did you equate it to just
2:08:58jealousy you still are quitting it to
2:09:02the friend of the girlfriend well I
2:09:04don't want to like I don't know 100% so
2:09:07I don't want to point fingers
2:09:10why so if you're not a hundred percent
2:09:12and you don't want to point fingers why
2:09:14do you believe it's her because she has
2:09:17personally messaged me on Facebook
2:09:18telling me that I'm stupid
2:09:20and to back off and to leave Daniel
2:09:23alone okay and sometimes when I text him
2:09:29she texted me using his phone telling me
2:09:33that he's with his girlfriend Christine
2:09:35and to leave him alone the
2:09:43is there something that happened to you
2:09:45that you never disclosed to the police
2:09:47before that is something I lied to him
2:09:53about okay tell me about that I told him
2:09:58I was raped but I was just very
2:10:02depressed and sorry this is very
2:10:06embarrassing don't don't do you haven't
2:10:08reported it to the police right this is
2:10:09Adam misses an interaction between you
2:10:11and an ex-boyfriend okay so yeah you're
2:10:14not at any trouble for this and it's
2:10:15important that we clear it up because
2:10:17he's telling us stuff and we're coming
2:10:20back to you this is something I like to
2:10:22him about okay and why didn't you say
2:10:25you were depressed and and when did this
2:10:27happen when did this what did you tell
2:10:29him about this a year ago and what was
2:10:35it that you told him that someone came
2:10:39to the door and when I went to open the
2:10:42door he pushed me down and raped me did
2:10:46they did you give descriptions did you
2:10:48provide descriptions to them about it to
2:10:49him about it I might have I I don't
2:10:55remember exactly what I said but you're
2:10:59telling me to my face that this never
2:11:02happened okay so it's not this isn't
2:11:07something that we need to be looking at
2:11:08is something that's tied to this this is
2:11:10that was my lie to him okay attention
2:11:15now did he what did he what was his
2:11:18reaction to that report it
2:11:23but it wasn't real so I didn't report it
2:11:26okay now what date did you ever did you
2:11:35ever have a figure if Danny if Daniel
2:11:37stop being a drug dealer or engaged or
2:11:40is he still dealing with that again this
2:11:42is not criminal it's more in lines of
2:11:45you know what would link someone to
2:11:48think that they're coming to your house
2:11:49for a large quantum for money which is
2:11:52an obvious question I don't I've asked
2:11:56him what he's up to and he just says
2:11:57running like doing runs but I don't ask
2:12:01him into detail so when he says he's
2:12:03doing runs Yoric waiting that - he's
2:12:05running still running drugs running
2:12:08errands running drugs seeing people I
2:12:10you just didn't ask him I just kind of
2:12:13went blind here cuz I'm not with him
2:12:15okay did you ever receive again coming
2:12:19from we're gonna ask it did you ever
2:12:20receive any other type of threatening
2:12:23text messages that you know more than
2:12:27just words of what a person says you
2:12:29know don't see him or don't did you ever
2:12:31read receive anything that was Jenny
2:12:34yeah I did get some but I couldn't uh
2:12:41I'm looking for it it said that we have
2:12:44people that can erase this message but
2:12:50it was just words there was just just
2:12:52stay away what were the words just stay
2:12:56away stay away Chris Christie and Danny
2:12:58Coale one one life one destiny or
2:13:02something like that so it was more in
2:13:05line with Danny and this more in line
2:13:07with a pretty much just me like for me
2:13:10to stay away there was never any threat
2:13:13to the threat to you from any other
2:13:16anonymous it always seems to you to have
2:13:19the heir of Danny's girlfriend or friend
2:13:22that's sending these threats just he
2:13:25says that it's not her but from them all
2:13:29the messages are pretty much just to
2:13:30leave him alone so he can be happy okay
2:13:33but there's no there's no phone number
2:13:37that these things are coming back from
2:13:38no being sent from no did you I know
2:13:43it's absurd but I couldn't explain it no
2:13:46well I don't with the technology today
2:13:50anything is possible i'm not i'm not
2:13:53never be able to look you in the face
2:13:55and say that's not possible because what
2:13:59kids can do with computers and do with
2:14:00technology i it was just words it was
2:14:06never more than that anything to the
2:14:09effect of seeing bang bang bang to me
2:14:13yes no are you aware of someone else
2:14:16getting a message like that daniel said
2:14:18that he got messages saying fun-fun-fun
2:14:20bang bang bang what did he ever equate
2:14:24that to you tell you he just said these
2:14:29messages basically kept telling him to
2:14:30make sure i stayed away from him and to
2:14:33make that girl happy okay and that they
2:14:37knew what he was up to
2:14:39they even said that they knew like what
2:14:44are like I'd text him something and for
2:14:47some reason they knew that I texted him
2:14:49and that they knew that I called him
2:14:51stuff like that do you have have you
2:14:57ever received
2:14:58other than that letter that other thing
2:15:02I also made up and how long ago was that
2:15:08just a few months ago okay and was that
2:15:11an attention grabber for him again you
2:15:14still have feelings for Daniel don't be
2:15:15yes okay so you're having trouble with
2:15:19that you're having trouble getting over
2:15:20the fact that the relationship is over
2:15:24I've accepted that that it's over but I
2:15:27still want to take care of him but
2:15:31unfortunately I made a decision and I
2:15:34mean I had to stick by it
2:15:35your relationship with Daniel was broken
2:15:38up because of your parents ultimatum not
2:15:40because she didn't care for him anymore
2:15:41yes that's that's an obvious what you
2:15:45can say right
2:15:46you still have feelings and you're still
2:15:47trying to trigger them with the bullet
2:15:49you know even just that yeah are these
2:15:51tech text messages are receiving are
2:15:53they fictitious are you making that up
2:15:55no a hundred percent okay now the letter
2:16:01you received is it fictitious or did he
2:16:04make it up or just sorry's a fictitious
2:16:06or is it real
2:16:07it's real it's real and I hope sorry no
2:16:10it just happened like before most of
2:16:13this stuff happened so I just brushed it
2:16:14aside okay so it happened before what
2:16:17most of what stuff happened most of like
2:16:21before I knew about her and before I
2:16:23knew like before she messaged me ever
2:16:25okay now how often did you use this
2:16:30other phone you said you said it was
2:16:32back when your father that's the last
2:16:34time you used it but how many times
2:16:36would use you know which from the last
2:16:38year once a day once a day or usually
2:16:43yeah once a day who was paying for that
2:16:47Danya was painful
2:16:54so the the incident those two incidents
2:16:57that you made the bullet and the and the
2:17:00never happened no is there anything else
2:17:07you can think of in this were you dating
2:17:09anyone else did you see anyone else
2:17:11during this jury during this year and a
2:17:14half no I just I saw a dream because he
2:17:20came he came over but I wasn't seeing
2:17:22him like romantically or anything I saw
2:17:28just my tight-knit group of friends
2:17:31which are my girlfriend's topaz topaz
2:17:35topaz last name thank you
2:17:37topaz Chu her husband she hates Tom and
2:17:41we're okay we won't say where they live
2:17:43because it's being video but I need to
2:17:44get an idea if we haven't spoken to him
2:17:46we'd like to speak to them okay who else
2:17:50Adrian Cheung he lives in he lives away
2:17:54but sometimes he comes into town and
2:17:57he'll come to my house and asked my
2:17:59parents to take me out just for a coffee
2:18:00to catch up about half hour and then he
2:18:02takes me back home okay that's that's
2:18:05three who else's type Adrian Adrian
2:18:10think of its he was spoken to we've
2:18:12spoken to already Edward Pacific and so
2:18:17he's no he's separate okay who else is
2:18:22in this other tight-knit group of
2:18:23friends well we're it tight though I
2:18:26don't speak to them often Cecilia Payne
2:18:29and Jerome we fall in and out like
2:18:33periodically like maybe a couple months
2:18:35where we talk almost every week and then
2:18:37sometimes we go month or two without
2:18:39talking Jerome you okay um that's Adrian
2:18:45Adrian topaz Chi hey Cecilia
2:18:52and there's one more Carson last name
2:19:03he's more like a shirt the him and
2:19:06myself aren't that close but he does
2:19:08hang around all of us if we go to first
2:19:12time when my friend had a baby we were
2:19:14all there together
2:19:15now what about I gotta apologize for the
2:19:19name's Gary Gibson Gibbons or Gibson
2:19:21Gibson yes
2:19:22where is he in this I haven't taught
2:19:25spoken to him in a long time I'd say
2:19:28about a year but prior to that I know we
2:19:30spoke quite a bit yeah but he was your
2:19:34link to Danny right I get did I need to
2:19:36drop you off well he spoke to he'd call
2:19:39Daniel if I like if he didn't answer my
2:19:41calls and what we hung out on our own as
2:19:44well what do you know about Daniel's
2:19:46girlfriend Christine um the only thing I
2:19:50know is that she's living with her
2:19:51father um when we were in high school
2:19:55she lost her mother um I believe she has
2:19:59a child and I don't know where the
2:20:03father isn't that um Daniels told me
2:20:06that this is just what Daniel was told
2:20:08me that she's going through a custody
2:20:11battle and that every time I ask him
2:20:16like are you what are you doing he's
2:20:18like making runs with Christine making
2:20:21runs with Christine yeah and I'm sorry
2:20:24when you say what runs it would you know
2:20:27for me listening to making a run are you
2:20:30making would you draw the inference that
2:20:32that's back to the drug business I would
2:20:34but I kind of I didn't go more into that
2:20:38don't go more into it what do you what
2:20:40do you take that as as just hearing it
2:20:42at face value that he was going to meet
2:20:45somebody for drugs and Christine's along
2:20:47for the ride I was told like in his
2:20:50words that he was the one taking her to
2:20:53go see people that she knew that she
2:20:57knew yes okay
2:20:59and that everything was at her house or
2:21:02something like that okay I want you to
2:21:08sit tight you want to get you some water
2:21:10yesterday okay I want you to sit tight
2:21:12I'm just gonna go talk to to Deborah
2:21:14she's Deborah cladding she's been
2:21:16monitoring I'm also gonna talk to the
2:21:17primary investigator okay we're gonna
2:21:20get you some water and we're sort of
2:21:23moving through this is great okay I
2:21:25appreciate the fact that you're honest
2:21:27with me to tell me that these things
2:21:28were made up okay it's very I can't lie
2:21:31right and you can't because idiot II
2:21:34well if you're if you were raped and you
2:21:36receive bullets those are some pretty
2:21:38significant prints I understand okay
2:21:42there was also one other thing um we
2:21:46were getting private phone calls
2:21:48um at my house as well I didn't never
2:21:52told my brother because he was at school
2:21:53yeah when we picked up they'd always
2:21:57hang up and one time my father had
2:22:03picked up and like I said Monday's my
2:22:06mother would go dancing yes and when
2:22:09this one time I picked up the phone what
2:22:13my father was already on the phone and
2:22:15there was this woman on the other line
2:22:16and I don't know who it was and and they
2:22:19were speaking Chinese which is a little
2:22:22bit off for me because my father's
2:22:25Chinese isn't isn't his first language
2:22:28agree and my father doesn't know I I was
2:22:32on the line but this woman was saying
2:22:34you have to come over right away right
2:22:37away you have to come now and my father
2:22:39kept saying I can't come over no and she
2:22:43said I don't care you have to come now
2:22:45um like I said he's still to this day
2:22:48doesn't know that I heard that
2:22:50conversation and when he went down the
2:22:57stairs to see me because I was in the
2:22:58main on the main floor he was upstairs
2:23:00when he answered the phone he was like
2:23:02I'm going to go and my cousin Michelle
2:23:06she said I'm gonna go to Michelle's
2:23:09house too I believe their tap was
2:23:11running
2:23:12he had he's a handyman you know the
2:23:14housework so they asked him to fix it
2:23:17but I believe I don't remember where
2:23:19they were they were out and I remember
2:23:21because I was I believe this is Jonas
2:23:24summer this past year 2010 yes at summer
2:23:27of 2010 and me and Michelle we went to
2:23:31we go as a gym together so she had
2:23:34mentioned that day that she had I I'm
2:23:39sorry I don't remember what but she had
2:23:40an errand to run with her mother and I
2:23:42was like I think it was a doctor's
2:23:43appointment or something
2:23:44and I told my dad that I believe they're
2:23:46out there not home and he's like I'm
2:23:48gonna go so he left and when he left I
2:23:54had called my my aunt had I believe my
2:23:56called me back where I had called her
2:23:58somehow we connected with each other and
2:24:00they said that he they were not home yet
2:24:02but they're on their way they would be
2:24:03there about a half hour by that my
2:24:06father never came home and my father
2:24:10says he was driving around their block
2:24:12waiting for them but when I confronted
2:24:16him I said I thought they were they said
2:24:18that they weren't home he said I was
2:24:19driving around the block but when I had
2:24:22I didn't know how to process this and so
2:24:25I confided in Michelle over at the gym
2:24:27and she said that when she came home she
2:24:31did Drive because they have her garages
2:24:35in the back of her house mm-hmm
2:24:37so there's like a street way that's just
2:24:39garages and when my father goes over he
2:24:42likes to use the back door and knocks on
2:24:44the door in the back door cause it's
2:24:45convenient cuz everyone's in the back of
2:24:47the house usually with the kitchen um so
2:24:49she said that she rent that she drove in
2:24:51two circles before me she drove around
2:24:54to check before she went in but my
2:24:57father was never there
2:24:58there's Michelle speak Chinese yes yes
2:25:03is your aunt this is your cousin is
2:25:06Michelle yes my cousin Michelle yes and
2:25:08your aunt's name is Oh cuida who we died
2:25:13and so did was your father ever at that
2:25:16house eventually she said that he did
2:25:19come over and he helped them out and
2:25:21came back home
2:25:23but when you listen on the phone line
2:25:24did you recognize the female as being
2:25:26Michelle Martin it was not it was not
2:25:28her and her mother I know that but it
2:25:30was a voice I've never heard before a
2:25:32lady's voice I've never heard before and
2:25:36like I said these phone calls were
2:25:37happening periodically but every time we
2:25:40answered they they'd hang up on us
2:25:41meaning you or your mom yes cuz my
2:25:44mother and I had voiced it and my we
2:25:47voiced it and a few days later I was
2:25:52home by myself and I got a private call
2:25:54and I didn't hear them click like hang
2:25:57up clicking so I yelled in Chinese do
2:26:01not call this number ever again and they
2:26:04called probably once after that and
2:26:06never returned like the private call
2:26:08stopped and so when did this stop when
2:26:11did this happen and when is he said this
2:26:12summer is when by the end of the summer
2:26:14this summer sizzle August September like
2:26:17late August early September it is this
2:26:20the to the house line yes what's the
2:26:22house line phone number nine oh five
2:26:24four seven seven three eight six seven
2:26:27okay okay sit tight is there any other
2:26:32any other incidents that jog your memory
2:26:39any other boyfriend's in between this
2:26:41time period no okay sit tight let me
2:26:46give you some water let me ask some
2:26:47questions okay if you want to stand up
2:26:48and walk around I understand it's not
2:26:50we're not telling you to sit tight
2:26:51literally but it may be a couple of
2:26:53minutes okay okay what do you need to go
2:26:56to washroom no I just I don't like
2:26:58myself I'm gonna leave the door open a
2:27:00little bit okay is that does that work
2:27:02for you and remember right through that
2:27:05glass you can actually I don't know seer
2:27:06but that's where she's sitting
2:27:08so she you're actually you're you're
2:27:09just a she's just in another room but
2:27:11she's a part of this room okay
2:27:36but you could just stand up it's up to
2:27:39you okay well just wait by the door here
2:28:04take some Kleenex take some Kleenex tell
2:28:09me what you're feeling right now what's
2:28:11going on you might as well get used to
2:28:19this you got to get it out so tell me
2:28:21what you're feeling right now I'm just
2:28:27kind of think if it makes me feel like I
2:28:31should have it's a thing called
2:28:35survivor's guilt okay that you're gonna
2:28:38go through that you're gonna you're
2:28:40gonna eat then this is the stuff about
2:28:42the therapy and and getting to speak to
2:28:45someone because there's stages of
2:28:46grieving that you're gonna go through
2:28:48okay and this is the only way you're
2:28:51gonna go through this is what properly
2:28:53is with help
2:28:53I think Victim Services is engaged right
2:28:56there they're trying to help you so just
2:28:58stick with that it's a long road but
2:29:01it's it can be a very successful Road
2:29:03okay and and what you're feeling I hate
2:29:06to say is normal but it is it's
2:29:09something that a lot of people who are
2:29:11in the same circumstance will feel okay
2:29:15but what I want to do is I want to
2:29:17finish off on this so that we can let
2:29:18you go and get get out of the police
2:29:21station okay because I appreciate your
2:29:24time and I appreciate your help
2:29:27so what is in the safe last time I
2:29:38opened it mom took our passports and I I
2:29:45she's she has the combination I don't
2:29:48have the combination you don't have the
2:29:49combination for the safe just your mom
2:29:51okay and so there was passports no large
2:29:55quantities of cash in there not that I'm
2:30:02not that I know because she asked me to
2:30:06help pay for our two trips okay
2:30:12and what did you get that what did you
2:30:14have the two thousand dollars for what
2:30:15did you where did you make that money I
2:30:17had I was saving up to get a new cell
2:30:24phone do you have a blackberry I gave it
2:30:27today okay but you have so the
2:30:32BlackBerry is it in your name that
2:30:34you've given to Dana so dis Danny was
2:30:36yours and you've given it to mend my
2:30:37brother's friend didn't it was an old
2:30:39Blackberry and my brother's friend gave
2:30:41it to him and I gave it I gave it today
2:30:47when did you give it to Danielle
2:30:54I gave it to a friend to give to Daniel
2:30:57how long ago we could go oh what's the
2:31:06pin command for that you know do you
2:31:08have a personal identification number
2:31:09for security reasons have you ever been
2:31:11given that by by blackberry no no okay
2:31:17so Daniel is was and likely still
2:31:26remains to be a drug dealer
2:31:29self-admitted when he was in the air the
2:31:31other day no so stepping back from that
2:31:34is I had asked you is prior to the
2:31:36incident when's the last time you spoke
2:31:38to Daniel what I should have said to you
2:31:40is when is the last time from today for
2:31:44back that you spoke to Daniel what is
2:31:46the last time you met with him and spoke
2:31:48with him did you talk to him briefly you
2:31:56didn't see him or talk to him any other
2:31:58times other than right here in the
2:31:59police station
2:32:03and if I told you that Daniel says that
2:32:06you spoke to him you did have a
2:32:08conversation with him somewhere else
2:32:22she would be lying
2:32:31the last time I spoke to him when he
2:32:33asked for her at the blackberry and that
2:32:37was a week ago
2:32:42if because my grandfather had just he
2:32:45was in the hospital and I snuck over and
2:32:47dropped it off for a friend at his
2:32:50paintball place and who is the friend
2:32:52that you gave it to I all know his first
2:32:54name listen listen and where's the
2:32:57paintball place Oh Victoria Park and
2:33:01pinochle right at Victoria Park and
2:33:03mcdabble between McNichol and Steel's
2:33:06Oh when there's a lot of people remember
2:33:15I told you about the media they're bad
2:33:18they can be very bad when they start to
2:33:20sniff around and they sense something
2:33:22and I can tell you that the media is
2:33:25portraying that this was supposed to be
2:33:29some sort of drug-related that you guys
2:33:31weren't a random target that you were a
2:33:33targeted house because of drug activity
2:33:39what would you say to that I don't deal
2:33:44the drugs okay tell me more about that
2:33:48you don't deal the drugs are you
2:33:49involved in the transportation and just
2:33:51predict distribution no have you ever
2:33:53been with Danny this is something that's
2:33:55very important have you ever been with
2:33:58Danny when Danny's doing that he
2:34:00normally leaves me with a friend and
2:34:02says he's going out with his friend and
2:34:04like normally when is that normally the
2:34:07hell was 3 4 years 3 or 4 years
2:34:22was he dealing one big one he said you
2:34:24were you were aware of it honestly I I
2:34:26had wanted nothing to do with it so I
2:34:28refused to know what he was doing okay
2:34:31and the times that used snuck out had
2:34:34spoke to him how many times a month up
2:34:37until the last time you handed the black
2:34:38bourbon you'd see him once a week well
2:34:42prior to this I'd only see him once a
2:34:45month because I wouldn't wait twice was
2:34:48my family yep I wasn't able to go
2:34:51anywhere with them so this month I've
2:34:54only seen him twice this month
2:34:57I mean October and you but you texted
2:35:01you said you text message him every day
2:35:02once
2:35:05you know when that could be a string of
2:35:07text messages right it's not just hey
2:35:09how are you doing fine and that's the
2:35:11end of the text message you'd be a
2:35:12string of communication huh you were
2:35:14texting it always you just be were you
2:35:16why don't you at work how are you and
2:35:20mr. you were what are you doing today
2:35:23and the so when you go out and see him
2:35:29for once during the time once once a
2:35:32week I I tell my parents that I was
2:35:34going to class yes and before class or
2:35:37after class I'd go buy him lunch and
2:35:39bring it by his work and sometimes I
2:35:41would see him and sometimes I just give
2:35:43it to a co-worker to give it in and how
2:35:45long when you see him how long would you
2:35:47see him for 10 minutes 15 minutes cause
2:35:50he was working when you weren't when he
2:35:52wasn't working and you were able to get
2:35:54out and see him how long it hasn't
2:35:56happened in a long time and how long is
2:35:58a long time the last time I saw him
2:36:00outside of that was when Gary picked me
2:36:03up and I got caught on my parents and
2:36:06that was and why why did he want your
2:36:11blackberry he said that he had sold his
2:36:15blackberry so he needed a phone and that
2:36:20Blackberry what like I'm kind of
2:36:24confused is was that an act of phone
2:36:27because now we're talking about three
2:36:29phones now we're taught that we got a
2:36:30SIM card we got the phone that your
2:36:32parents know you have and you got a
2:36:33blackberry up until a week ago
2:36:36yes so the BlackBerry is what I was
2:36:39using with my own Roger SIM card the
2:36:42phone I'm using now was an old phone
2:36:43that I no longer used okay so that's the
2:36:47reception the BlackBerry was your normal
2:36:49phone that you were using on a regular
2:36:51basis and and you would switch SIM cards
2:36:55if so if you were gonna communicate with
2:36:57him with the other SIM card you'd put
2:36:58the SIM card in that Blackberry and talk
2:36:59to him through that I had an iPhone I
2:37:03kept in my room that my parents don't
2:37:04know about cuz my brother
2:37:07I had one broke yeah so my brother he
2:37:12what he did was he fixed the part so he
2:37:14can have one that he used himself but
2:37:16the one I had wasn't fully functioning
2:37:18it was just able they had no internet
2:37:21access on it so I just kept it for phone
2:37:24calls and I kept it and where is that
2:37:26phone now it shouldn't be still on my in
2:37:29my room yes where I believe those on my
2:37:38counter and it doesn't have a SIM card
2:37:40in it right now
2:37:41no I don't keep this um card in it just
2:37:44in case my parents asked okay so there's
2:37:48an iPhone on by your desk on your desk
2:37:51somewhere in that in your room and the
2:37:56Rogers there's I mean a blackberry that
2:37:58you had had up until a week and it went
2:38:00to Daniel and and for what reason he had
2:38:03another a newer blackberry but he said
2:38:06someone wanted to buy it like a friend
2:38:08of his wanted to buy it and that he
2:38:10needed a phone temporarily so he took
2:38:13your phone so I I had another phone as
2:38:15well so I said okay I'll lend you this
2:38:17one so it sounds as if you couldn't let
2:38:25Danny go like you're you're still there
2:38:28you're still hoping the hope isn't much
2:38:31but what you're still hoping I still
2:38:34you're not you're not walking away from
2:38:36him right you haven't walked away from
2:38:38him even with the comments that you've
2:38:40received these comments from I had and
2:38:43then
2:38:46but I had for a while I disappeared from
2:38:50him for a while but I needed it was just
2:38:54he he's that calm that you can even make
2:39:00me calm so I reached back out to him so
2:39:02is the is it you instigating all the
2:39:05communication or does he reach bet
2:39:06deceased I reach back of all okay now
2:39:12you have to figure as I said the media
2:39:15can be horrific in some cases and I died
2:39:17I told you you not to read or pay
2:39:20attention to the news and I know for a
2:39:22fact that in one of the newspapers that
2:39:25the angle that's being portrayed it
2:39:27right now is that this was a drug that
2:39:29you guys were not a random but a
2:39:31targeted residence because of
2:39:34drug-related activity you and your
2:39:37family were engaged in drug-related
2:39:39activity no is it possible that Danny
2:39:47that you are being mistaken somehow as
2:39:50being involved in his life and that
2:39:52angle of things well I haven't been
2:39:54around his life for a while like going
2:39:57out with him but I wouldn't say it's
2:40:02completely out of the question but I
2:40:04haven't I don't I don't go around with
2:40:07him when he's doing that kind of stuff I
2:40:08I don't like it and I refuse to be a
2:40:11part of that and now what do you say
2:40:13about Chris the comet above Christine
2:40:15and the running I kind of took a blind
2:40:18eye to that but it I is it is it your
2:40:21understanding that she may be not only
2:40:22part of it but linking him to the people
2:40:25involved in this activity and because
2:40:31like I told you he gives me that answer
2:40:33and I kind of take a blind eye but if I
2:40:35were to tell you what I thought of what
2:40:40was that I would think that she she also
2:40:45has her own thing going
2:40:48her own business issue work for a living
2:40:52what I know of her is that I think he
2:40:56mentioned that she worked at no-frills
2:40:58but it wasn't I shouldn't work often but
2:41:01I think he mentioned that she doesn't
2:41:03have a job once but I know she worked
2:41:06for novels I don't know if she still
2:41:07does which no frills do you know
2:41:10unfortunately I'm not sure you know what
2:41:13area of town or where she lives at
2:41:18Midland in Steele's find the Markham or
2:41:20Scarborough side I'm this Garber said
2:41:25and Christy you don't know her last name
2:41:27Philippe Philippe what's that what
2:41:31nationality is she Filipino oldest
2:41:35Christine
2:41:36I only know she's older than me I'm not
2:41:39sure if she's I'm not sure did he ever
2:41:42say where he met her we all we all went
2:41:45to the same high school and they also uh
2:41:47yeah well I didn't same high school
2:41:50what's cool is that Mary Ward no how
2:41:59would you feel if you know like Daniel
2:42:04is the one who's through through
2:42:08whatever activity that he's engaged in
2:42:10and you've been around but not
2:42:11necessarily having an understanding cuz
2:42:13you're seen with him that he's brought
2:42:15this back to you
2:42:26I don't know if that's in fact happened
2:42:28I'm trying to find a rhyme or reason for
2:42:29why your house was targeted I'm still
2:42:32trying to figure out how they got in
2:42:33your house I get in here you didn't hear
2:42:37a doorbell you didn't hear a door knock
2:42:39you didn't hear a door kicked in I I
2:42:46don't know how yeah I know we went over
2:42:50that back and back and forth we don't
2:42:52know how so somehow they got into your
2:42:57house by getting through your mom down
2:43:01on the lower level right cuz she's the
2:43:02only one who's down so it's very
2:43:07confusing we do have surveillance
2:43:12cameras from the area right that
2:43:14explained that well hopefully but it's
2:43:16that's you know that's still in work in
2:43:18progress but generally a random events
2:43:28are not in most cases random there's a
2:43:32rhyme or reason why they've come to your
2:43:34house but from what you've told me
2:43:37inside the house the only thing that you
2:43:38hear them saying to you is they're
2:43:40looking for money they're not looking
2:43:43for a specific quantity of money no do
2:43:45you ever hear number one telling number
2:43:48three about the quantity of money that
2:43:50he's recovered no
2:43:59all the comment you hear from number one
2:44:01really is is it's time to go we've been
2:44:03here too long we've been here too long
2:44:04yeah
2:44:05and number three was the one that says
2:44:08was my father and all I could what I
2:44:10heard from him was basically where's
2:44:12more of your life so you're telling me
2:44:20that you you had no involvement in what
2:44:23happened meaning not saying how they
2:44:27outcome came but you you had no
2:44:28involvement in in any type of illegal
2:44:31activity that would have drawn you or
2:44:33the attention of you to have bad people
2:44:35come to your house looking for large
2:44:38sums of money you're not involved in
2:44:41this any which way because the question
2:44:46obviously stands jennifer is you're
2:44:50upstairs and they're downstairs right so
2:44:56it's a natural concern when why would
2:45:01they leave you alone why would they not
2:45:03do the same to you
2:45:11you can't answer that question he said I
2:45:16cooperated but I asked him to take me
2:45:21the number one guy the number one guy
2:45:23said you cooperated okay there's no you
2:45:30had no threats and again we're back to
2:45:32the fact that you admittedly lied okay
2:45:35not to me
2:45:35right not to me no you admittedly lied
2:45:39you've lied to your parents right about
2:45:44going to school you've lied to Danny
2:45:48about being Daniel about being raped and
2:45:50about receiving a bullet who's to say
2:45:54this whole thing isn't a lie
2:45:56that what you're telling me is a lie
2:45:59because if you are lying it's the most
2:46:02cold-blooded thing that I've ever faced
2:46:03in my life
2:46:21there is nothing that you've said to me
2:46:22today is a lie and I want to they want a
2:46:27crook you just put a little preamble not
2:46:30nothing in here that you've might have
2:46:32mistaken because of order of events I'm
2:46:35saying to you right now is there
2:46:39anything throughout the course of your
2:46:40statement today where you lied to me
2:46:48from your interaction with Danny Daniel
2:46:52from your I'm not involved in drugs and
2:46:55I don't have anything to do with them
2:46:56and we don't have large sums of money
2:46:58what about life insurance policies do
2:47:01your parents have life insurance
2:47:02policies I think I have one on myself
2:47:16yes and my mom they used to have one for
2:47:22me when I was younger
2:47:22okay but half of that went to education
2:47:26half went to life insurance and when
2:47:31they found out I I didn't go to
2:47:35university they they asked for the money
2:47:38back so hang on a second here
2:47:40you told to me that you told me that
2:47:42they never knew you didn't go to
2:47:43university when did they find out that
2:47:45you didn't go to university I told them
2:47:48that I graduated but I never went to
2:47:51university that I went for two years but
2:47:54I never finished okay and they wanted
2:47:58the money back as a result of that yes
2:47:59so you did actually tell your parents
2:48:02somewhat of the tree that you never went
2:48:03to university or but it's it's
2:48:04half-truths so back to this line is
2:48:13where we're talking about the fact that
2:48:15of the line don't do drugs
2:48:19I don't associate with that okay I
2:48:24honest I don't now back to another very
2:48:30difficult question but if I don't ask it
2:48:32and I'm gonna be you it's an obvious one
2:48:34the resentment that you had that you may
2:48:37have had toward your parents for the
2:48:39interference in your relationship in
2:48:41your life and essentially locking you
2:48:43down in your house at the end of the day
2:48:47I love my parents and I chose to be with
2:48:49them and if I wanted to I could have
2:48:55just left but I didn't I wanted to stay
2:48:57with them and take care of them
2:49:01so this wasn't some evil plot that you
2:49:03thought up to oh my god no no
2:49:09interaction no belief no you didn't have
2:49:11anything to do with this thing at all
2:49:12whatsoever you don't engage in illegal
2:49:15activity no because you know that it'll
2:49:19be very easily it will be a very easy
2:49:21thing to discredit you on right we're in
2:49:23the process of trying to add credibility
2:49:25to what you tell us and that's through
2:49:27the process of asking people in doing
2:49:29whatever through that same process it
2:49:31will be very easy to find the flaws and
2:49:33what you've said
2:49:34which again then turns to focus back to
2:49:37you okay it's a natural progress it's a
2:49:41natural thing that investigators do we
2:49:43eliminate people or we draw our
2:49:46attention to them it's a natural thing
2:49:49it's of it's not brain surgery
2:49:50okay what did you talk to Michelle about
2:49:57did you talk to Michelle last night or
2:50:00the day before that you were coming at
2:50:03that boat talking to the police I just
2:50:06asked her how she was feeling cause she
2:50:07was nervous what did you tell her just
2:50:10tell the truth tell you what you know
2:50:13and the threats that you you say that
2:50:16you've received the threats that you've
2:50:18talked about are the same threats that
2:50:20you're mentioning from the text
2:50:22messaging they're not really you did you
2:50:25receive any life threatening or are they
2:50:27basically to stay away from just the
2:50:29email saying the message is saying stay
2:50:32away from Danny yes okay I heard a knock
2:50:36on the door
2:50:36get bare with me
2:50:45okay we're we're done essentially how
2:50:50you feeling did I scare you a bit let's
2:50:55sit down sit down and take a load off
2:50:57tell me how would tell me how you're
2:50:58feeling and how I scared you I don't
2:51:03want you walking away from here thinking
2:51:05I'm evil I want you to walking around
2:51:06from here thinking that this guy is
2:51:09helping investigate my mum's murder and
2:51:11he's gonna turn over every stone
2:51:12possible to make sure that we catch the
2:51:14people who do that that's what I want
2:51:16you feeling so I don't want you walking
2:51:17away from here thinking that I'm I'm I
2:51:19scared you or I'm a bad man sometimes we
2:51:23have to ask very very difficult
2:51:24questions but it's my job okay and you
2:51:29would expect that from me and it's not
2:51:33you're not the only person that we're
2:51:34asking this stuff right but you're the
2:51:37almost obvious person that where you
2:51:39have to ask this stuff to and there's
2:51:45it's just it's just the way we operate
2:51:48it's the way we have to operate it's a
2:51:49tough job to deal with someone's murder
2:51:52and there's some very bad people and
2:51:55there's some very tough questions that
2:51:56need to be asked so you have to I hope
2:51:59you understand I understand that
2:52:08to take have you lied to me
2:52:13no yeah I've been lied to me about
2:52:16anything
2:52:16I said whatever I could to help okay so
2:52:21if you've always told the truth the
2:52:23truth will never hurt you it may get you
2:52:25into a bit of trouble right the truth
2:52:27can get you into trouble if you've done
2:52:29but something's wrong but generally in
2:52:32most cases if you tell the truth
2:52:34you'll always be fine so that's that's
2:52:41the Avenue that that's the Avenue you
2:52:43have to think about it and what you I
2:52:45can always I never do anything wrong if
2:52:46I tell the truth and if I've made life
2:52:48I've said some things that are lies or
2:52:50I've held something back because I think
2:52:53it might hurt me those are the things
2:52:55that will cause people to look at you
2:52:58more intently because the question is is
2:53:01why would that person do that to me
2:53:03they've got something to hide right so
2:53:09you know the fact that you've lied to
2:53:11your parents over a long period of time
2:53:13the fact that you lied about to Daniel
2:53:15about those other two events none of
2:53:18those are disturbing me but I don't live
2:53:22in your shoes and I would never judge
2:53:24you on that fact but from an outsider
2:53:27looking in to have to live under those
2:53:29conditions to have to lie continually
2:53:34you're gonna ask the question why
2:53:44and if that's the way that you have to
2:53:45live that's the way you have to live but
2:53:49people will judge you on your life
2:53:58so is there anything else that you think
2:54:00that you can think of that might help us
2:54:24there was one person who added me on
2:54:28Facebook
2:54:35and I found it weird that he had added
2:54:39me out of nowhere and I had looked in
2:54:43common friends and saw that he was
2:54:45friends with this girl that girl
2:54:47Christine when I spoke to Danielle about
2:54:50it I don't know if he told her or not
2:54:53but I asked him like is she just casual
2:54:58friends with him or is she good friends
2:55:00with him and the day after I asked him
2:55:06this they were no longer friends on
2:55:08Facebook who is this guy what did he
2:55:11look like
2:55:12KC law I've never met him apparently
2:55:15went to high school as well but I don't
2:55:17recall ever meeting him and he kept
2:55:23asking me questions that I don't know if
2:55:27it's just his personality but he asked
2:55:29me questions I that were too abrupt to
2:55:34ask someone you just met
2:55:35like what give me an example he asked if
2:55:41I had a boyfriend and if I was looking
2:55:45for a boyfriend and if I engaged in sex
2:55:48and things like that so that's the kind
2:55:53of question who's you know provoking you
2:55:58KC law and did you recognize the name
2:56:02from school recognizable but again I
2:56:06don't remember ever even having a
2:56:07conversation with him and so he said he
2:56:10went to your school yeah but he was
2:56:13older than me he's older than you and
2:56:15what what is he look like Chinese diet
2:56:20yeah when I when I talked to him he said
2:56:24that he was working like security
2:56:29okay so that's that's a non things that
2:56:34strange things that have happened to you
2:56:35recently that's that's it that you can
2:56:38think of is that that one and plus
2:56:40obviously the the the stuff that was
2:56:43going on with Christine and then because
2:56:44the ghost messages that you were
2:56:46receiving right from from these were
2:56:50numbers that didn't exist or they didn't
2:56:51have it no block block numbers and when
2:56:55I called Rogers they said that's not
2:56:56possible for a text message to come in
2:57:01with a block number yes okay
2:57:12so you know that whatever you everything
2:57:15you've told us has been under oath yes
2:57:19you know that part of it our job is is
2:57:22to go back and look at what you've told
2:57:27us to try and match up to the reality of
2:57:30what we have evidence that we have right
2:57:33you said you're where you use you said
2:57:36essentially nothing if you didn't really
2:57:40change much from your first statement to
2:57:41your second statement you've you've
2:57:44explained more we've covered off more
2:57:47but is there anything in this course of
2:57:51these that you think you want to change
2:58:00you meet me like that now I feel like
2:58:02I've said something wrong you have no I
2:58:04don't know if you said you have to me
2:58:06you know I've said everything that I
2:58:08know
2:58:08just you and I'm asking you is from
2:58:11reflecting on what you've told me today
2:58:12which is fairly consistent with the
2:58:15first statement it's just there's more
2:58:17detail now is there anything in there
2:58:19from what you've been going down and
2:58:21what you think be it should be right on
2:58:23the tip of your tongue if you've want to
2:58:25change something it would be like you
2:58:28know what I said this and I really meant
2:58:30this it's not something you've missed
2:58:32it's something that you knowingly have
2:58:34said that you want to change that you
2:58:35know was wrong or could be taken wrong
2:58:38okay well well first thing the school
2:58:42thing yes I didn't go to university but
2:58:46I told my parents that I went for a few
2:58:47years did you tell them how long ago did
2:58:52they find it I told them everything when
2:58:55I was going up seeing Daniel and that I
2:58:58only I told him I only went partial
2:59:01school okay and I told him all and when
2:59:04was that what year was that when how
2:59:05long a year and a half so is this when
2:59:08the ultimatum come down he's after that
2:59:10is that at that point ultimatum camera
2:59:11buddy there there's always been
2:59:15alternatives like they always gave me
2:59:18but the one that you made the choice
2:59:19where you were at because you say that
2:59:21was about a year and a half ago - is
2:59:23that part of when you came clean to a
2:59:26certain extent you say you came clean
2:59:28coming clean would be mom and dad I
2:59:29don't even everything but I came like
2:59:32when I when I said when I said what they
2:59:38know and that was a year and a half ago
2:59:41yes okay so there's one that you've
2:59:44we've clarified is there anything else
2:59:45that you can think up
2:59:51they're anything that like I everything
2:59:57I said is what I said that's all I know
3:00:01yeah you can't just make you feel like
3:00:03you're looking at me - for me to try and
3:00:05tell you what I think you've said was
3:00:06wrong
3:00:07I don't know I'm telling you that I'm I
3:00:12heard everything that you've had to say
3:00:14I don't have this miraculous TV ability
3:00:20that says I can pull out a chunk of this
3:00:21and say to you that portions wrong I can
3:00:25tell you from what you told us we're
3:00:27going to compare it with all the
3:00:29evidence we have and see how consistent
3:00:31it is there's no way you're expected to
3:00:34be a hundred percent it's impossible
3:00:36okay eyewitnesses for every event we
3:00:39know are don't have the ability to
3:00:42recall everything so that's why we asked
3:00:45you do to the best of your ability
3:00:48my concern lies in the fact of your
3:00:51lying okay you've come clean you've
3:00:56never lied to me before right I've never
3:00:59met you to be a liar but the fact is is
3:01:01that you've lied about stuff to Daniel
3:01:04you've lied to your parents so could you
3:01:10be lying to me I can't why couldn't you
3:01:14be lying cuz you're scaring doesn't mean
3:01:17that I you couldn't be aligned to me
3:01:19right I don't know you I've known you
3:01:22now for probably five hours
3:01:24intermittent I hope you're not lying to
3:01:28me right that's all I can hope for but
3:01:32the fact of the matter is is that those
3:01:34three things are sitting there saying
3:01:36you know like you have the ability to
3:01:38trick your parents for a long period of
3:01:40time
3:01:45very explainable and I also worried I
3:01:47wasn't living and where you are right
3:01:50and I'm so I'm not gonna prejudge you it
3:01:52because I people do what they need to do
3:01:54to survive so it could very easily be
3:01:57justified as a survival mechanism this
3:01:59is the best Avenue that you saw it and
3:02:01you were stuck
3:02:02okay but the fact is is that my job is
3:02:05is trying to get the root of a severely
3:02:08serious crime and I have to explore
3:02:11every avenue that we possibly can so I'm
3:02:14gonna do everything in my power to
3:02:16either prove us as our police agency
3:02:19prove or disprove what you've told us
3:02:21the more we prove or can cooperate the
3:02:25more credibility you you have as a
3:02:28witness okay that's gonna happen we may
3:02:34even ask you to come back again again it
3:02:37will be not for you will not be
3:02:39explaining what happened in a grand
3:02:43scheme of things because you've done
3:02:44that up and down and backwards it may be
3:02:46four points of clarification okay
3:02:49because again we're speaking to we're
3:02:50gonna be going and likely speaking to
3:02:52some of your friends and your relatives
3:02:53and it's just points of clarification
3:02:57may not happen it may you know I'm only
3:03:00saying that it may I told you I didn't
3:03:02want to do the five and six and seven
3:03:04interviews with you well after today
3:03:06that's not gonna happen but we may be
3:03:09contacting you to help us for some other
3:03:11points that we come across okay again it
3:03:14goes back to your credibility but I
3:03:15don't no one's gonna sit you down and
3:03:17crank you through the events unless you
3:03:23were involved in it right and then I
3:03:26can't then all all promises or all
3:03:28everything comes off if you had some
3:03:32involvement in this then then I'm just
3:03:35saying although all the rules if you
3:03:37didn't have anything to do with this and
3:03:40you're telling me the truth then we may
3:03:44be calling you to add is this true with
3:03:47this person saying that this way and we
3:03:49may be asking you points like that okay
3:03:51you you're our only link you're it until
3:03:57your dad regains he is back in being
3:03:59able to be a be spoken to right now
3:04:02you're our only link to this case so
3:04:05where we may rely on you heavily on
3:04:07until we can speak to your father
3:04:10okay so don't be afraid if you've told
3:04:14the truth the last thing you should be
3:04:15afraid of is it's anything if you told
3:04:17the truth and you've been truthful
3:04:19through this whole process then you're
3:04:21helping you're doing your part okay and
3:04:26don't be afraid of me I'm just afraid
3:04:28because you know like I know everything
3:04:32is just all pointing negatively right
3:04:36now and I don't understand why it's not
3:04:38all pointing negative and you know what
3:04:40you're here so you're misunderstanding
3:04:41things that you're thinking it's all
3:04:43negatively pointing anywhere it's not
3:04:45pointing anywhere right now we are still
3:04:47gathering and gathering and gathering
3:04:50there is no direction that we're there's
3:04:52nothing you are not a suspect in this in
3:04:55this investigation okay you're a witness
3:04:58and a victim of a crime I'm just I'm
3:05:03just I feel that like the way you're
3:05:05speaking to me it's kind of like I know
3:05:08you said that you had to say those
3:05:10things but it's it's here and I've
3:05:14already said it to the special victims
3:05:17yesterday but there's like ideas in my
3:05:20head yeah and I'm afraid to say it out
3:05:23loud but ideas about speculation of what
3:05:27happened how it happened ideas of why
3:05:31why wasn't I there it's you you that
3:05:41psychologically is an issue that you
3:05:43need to straighten out with counselling
3:05:45okay for you to speculate into the
3:05:48investigation as to why you weren't
3:05:50there unless unless it's standing out
3:05:52you said in your opinion was is that
3:05:55they said I cooperated operating right
3:05:58and in in a case that makes no sense
3:06:02that could be the only sense that we get
3:06:05out of the investigation is that strange
3:06:07things happen right strange things
3:06:09happen so
3:06:13yeah unfortunately time some of us have
3:06:17to point the finger seem like we're
3:06:19pointing the finger and it really is
3:06:20just to provoke you to see what you're
3:06:21gonna do how you're gonna respond okay
3:06:24so it's only a question and it's been
3:06:29answered and if you've been truthful
3:06:31okay you have nothing to fear
3:06:34absolutely nothing okay what do you want
3:06:41to say that I got a phone call once and
3:06:47like I said earlier I don't know if you
3:06:50it was like zoned in but they caught it
3:06:53they said that they can make everything
3:06:55disappear and that's what I'm afraid of
3:06:58because you're asking me all these
3:06:59questions and I'm answering them
3:07:01truthfully but I'm afraid that well I
3:07:05can't answer them for you well there's
3:07:08some you know not your the technology
3:07:10exists you know there is some technology
3:07:13out there I'm sure that can make things
3:07:15disappear and I know that not everything
3:07:17is captured so you know we go back to
3:07:20interviewing someone else who may say
3:07:22yeah well she told me about this and or
3:07:24I had similar things so there's other
3:07:27ways around it it's not this case isn't
3:07:29gonna hinge on small inconsistencies
3:07:32right it's not consistency is I'm afraid
3:07:37of what is out there because you you
3:07:41shine a light that it could have been
3:07:42because of what he's involved in is it
3:07:48not a possibility I know like you have
3:07:50given me that and with that I'm just
3:07:53like I'm scared because it could be
3:07:58anybody out there right now it could be
3:08:00anyone and that's the reality of it
3:08:02right we don't we're the theories we're
3:08:06at the same position of you as
3:08:08speculating as to theories and reasons
3:08:10why and you can't be confined in your
3:08:14theories because you know if you're
3:08:16sitting here looking like this you know
3:08:18what a small with the blinders on that
3:08:19this is it's it's like this we got to
3:08:23think of every possible way that it
3:08:25could
3:08:25this crime could have been happening and
3:08:27you know saying that it could have been
3:08:28Daniel yeah it could have been gay
3:08:31could have been a random act yeah it
3:08:33could have been a random could they have
3:08:34been targeted because of something did
3:08:35yeah it could have been
3:08:37we've gotta explore malt and then try
3:08:41and figure out which one through motive
3:08:43and opportunity and means was likely to
3:08:45have occurred and hopefully we start to
3:08:48focus down on suspects but right now
3:08:52there's no fingers being directed at
3:08:54anyone it's just I feel that's what
3:08:59you're meant to feel okay that's what
3:09:03you're meant to feel but there's nothing
3:09:07right now other than what you told me
3:09:09about the changing anywhere you fix it
3:09:10at the end about to clarify okay so is
3:09:13there anything else not off the top of
3:09:16my head
3:09:28so we're back to this last question that
3:09:30comes back to is is there anything else
3:09:33I should know to us to understand your
3:09:35statement fully and that's again is it
3:09:36this is where you'll drop in that I took
3:09:39five hits fast before I you're not on
3:09:42drugs you're not taking liquor you're
3:09:44not taking any medication here you you
3:09:49voluntarily gave this statement and you
3:09:52did it having a full understanding what
3:09:55you've told me yes yes
3:10:07okay so the recorders are being shut off
3:10:10as we speak

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