YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → JAY SMITH | The Biggest Questions About Mecca’s Origins Nobody Can Ignore.

JAY SMITH | The Biggest Questions About Mecca’s Origins Nobody Can Ignore. — Transcript

by The Jay Smith Show · 12,547 words · 1,824 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00Now, let's just do a quick review of
0:02what we said yesterday. Remember, the
0:06biggest problem we have with Islam is
0:08nothing. We just don't have anything
0:11from the seventh century. Nothing
0:13exists. There's no reference to any man
0:16named Muhammad. You notice I'm using the
0:18word Muhammad. I'm doing that
0:21intentionally
0:23because Muhammad requires vowels.
0:26Muhammad.
0:28There is no Muhammad at all in the
0:30seventh century. You're gonna see why I
0:33do that later on after the break. We
0:35have no reference to any city called
0:37Mecca.
0:39This is the city you're going to see
0:40that's older than any other city in
0:42history. It's where Adam and Eve went
0:44to. You can't get any older than Adam
0:45and Eve, can you? That's it. No
0:49reference to any book of the Quran.
0:54This is the book that was revealed
0:55between 610 and 632. That's the
0:58beginning of the seventh century. No
0:59reference anywhere. No reference to
1:02anybody called Abu Bakr, Umar, Utman, or
1:04Ali. Those are the first four kiffs that
1:06come after Muhammad.
1:08No reference to any of these people.
1:11Yet, this is how Islam began.
1:14And so, it's fascinating with all that
1:16we now know, with all that we have, this
1:20man Muhammad, his biography doesn't even
1:22appear until 8:33. That's what I told
1:26you yesterday, right? I made and I lied.
1:28There is no manuscript from 8:33 of a
1:31man named Muhammad. There is no
1:33manuscript
1:34of the 10th century from him or the 11th
1:36or the 12th or the 13th. In fact, the
1:38first biography, the first compilation
1:41of any biography of Muhammad's life was
1:44not written till Frederick Hinrich
1:46Worenfeld wrote it in 1860.
1:49That's 160 years ago.
1:54Now when you compare it with Jesus
1:55Christ, we already have his biography
1:57written by four different individuals,
1:59Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John within 60
2:01years of his death.
2:04The first biography we have of Muhammad
2:06is over a thousand years after his
2:08death. The first biography written down.
2:10If this is the greatest of all re
2:12prophets, if this is the one that
2:14supersedes all other prophets that came
2:15to correct everything that happened
2:17before, why was nothing written down
2:19about his life?
2:22Question number one
2:25to the more important material is not
2:28what happened is what he said because
2:30it's the hadith that are needed for
2:32Muslims to know how to walk, talk, eat,
2:34drink and sleep 24/7. how they live is
2:38comes from what he says and mostly from
2:41people like Alb Bukhari Sahib Muslim Iba
2:43Tmidi and the others the six
2:45compilations that I have been telling
2:47you and I have been lying all this time
2:49that came from the 9th century that's
2:51bad enough if he lived in the seventh
2:53century and they don't even begin to
2:54appear for 240 years after his death you
2:57can see the dilemma for Muslims how are
2:59they going to support what they're
3:00hearing
3:03but I lied didn't I because I corrected
3:05myself yesterday.
3:07We have nothing before the 9th century.
3:09We have nothing. In fact, all of these
3:11traditions that are known as the Hadith
3:13do not appear until the 12th century and
3:16they continue up until the 16th century.
3:18Folks, that's the Ottoman period,
3:20redacted back to someone named Bhari,
3:22redacted back to someone named Muslim,
3:24redacted back to someone. And this is
3:26material that's not even gone up on the
3:28internet yet. You were the first to hear
3:29it.
3:30All the extent manuscripts we're now
3:33looking at do not begin to appear until
3:35the 12th century. We have nothing
3:37earlier.
3:39Yet two almost two billion people assume
3:43that this man lived in the light of
3:45history.
3:47That we knew who he was. We knew what he
3:49said. We knew what he did. We knew
3:51nothing about this man.
3:54Nothing about the muhamadmed.
3:57I'm going to emphasize that because we
4:00are going to find out material after the
4:02break of a Mad. Yeah.
4:07And I'm glad you're here, Emil, because
4:08I'm going to shut down what you said
4:10yesterday. He thinks there was a
4:12Muhammad. I'm going to prove him wrong
4:14after the break. He has no idea what we
4:16now know about this Muhamad.
4:19It's going to be fun. And the good thing
4:22about this is that every one of this all
4:24this material that we're going to
4:25introduce today now I am speaking fast
4:28because an awful lot of te material to
4:29go through you can use almost
4:32immediately once you get my PowerPoint
4:35you can use it use it take it put your
4:37name to it do whatever you want with it
4:40it's yours after I give it to you but
4:42what you're going to have to do and the
4:43thing that we said yesterday is anytime
4:45you get into a discussion about this man
4:48Muhammad about this book called the
4:50Quran about this place called Mecca. The
4:52first thing you need to do with your
4:54Muslim friends is whenever they make a
4:56claim, whenever they make a comment,
4:57always stop the conversation and say,
4:59"Listen, unless you're going to show me
5:01from the seventh century who this man
5:03is, what that book was, and where this
5:05place existed, we're not going to have a
5:07conversation. You've got to support what
5:09you're saying from the seventh century."
5:11That's what I'm going to do today. And
5:13we demand the same thing of Jesus
5:15Christ, do we not? We don't care about
5:18the Gnostic writings which are redacted
5:20back to Jesus. I don't want to read of
5:21what the Gnostics thought Jesus did
5:23because he was going around killing
5:24people. That's not the Jesus I want to
5:26hear. I want to hear the Jesus in
5:28history, the man that actually lived and
5:30the people that knew him and those that
5:32actually saw him and those that actually
5:34heard him. I want to hear what Matthew
5:35and John said because they were
5:36eyewitness to what they were seeing and
5:39eyewitness to what they were hearing,
5:42not what the Gnostic writings like
5:44Thomas and and
5:46I'm Barnabas. I don't care about those
5:48writings because those are written much
5:50later redacted back on what they thought
5:52and who this man was and what he did.
5:54And the same if we're going to demand
5:56that of Christianity and of Jesus
5:58Christ, we've got to demand that of
6:00Islam and Muhammad. Do you see why I'm
6:02doing this? That's why this is a winwin
6:05for us. Because if we do like with like,
6:09and we did it yesterday, you showed
6:11that. I showed you the graph. I showed
6:13you the timeline. Notice everything they
6:16have for Muhammad comes from two to 300.
6:19No. Yay. No. Five to a thousand years
6:22after his death. And everything we have
6:25for Jesus Christ comes within 60 years.
6:29Written by men that were living there.
6:30Written by men that knew him. Written by
6:32men that saw him. Written by men that
6:34heard him. And in the same area that he
6:37lived.
6:39All of the material that comes among on
6:41this man named Muhammad or this book
6:43called the Quran or this religion called
6:45Islam, how it originated came from men
6:48like Bkhara, Bkari who was from Bkhara
6:51which is in Usuzbekistan came from men
6:53like Tabari who is from Tabadistan which
6:56is in northern Iran or came from men
6:59like Hisham who though was born in Basel
7:03lived in Cairo grew up and did his work
7:05in Baghdad. In fact, they all did their
7:07work in Baghdad.
7:09That's over 1,000 miles away, 1,200
7:11miles away. So, knowing that, getting
7:14that, and seeing that, if he has, if
7:17there is no history for him, if we
7:18cannot find him anywhere in history or
7:21this book anywhere in history, then we
7:23need to ask, well, okay, since we can't
7:25find anything about him or the book,
7:26let's go to the place. Let's go to the
7:29place. Let's go to Mecca.
7:34Mecca is well let's just go ahead and
7:36open it up and watch don't watch me just
7:39watch the screen and follow what's going
7:41along here. So the problems with Mecca.
7:44Why question Mecca? Well, the reason why
7:48it's all through the standard Islamic
7:49narrative. Everywhere you look, you see
7:51Mecca, Mecca, Mecca, Mecca. Mecca,
7:53you'll see that. And you all have heard
7:54about it. And this is the one I was
7:56interesting talking with Emile
7:58yesterday. He said, "Okay." I said,
7:59"Which Muhammad are you talking about?"
8:00He said, "Well, of course it's not the
8:01Muhammad of Mecca." If it's not the
8:03Muhammad of Mecca, then there's no it's
8:05not the Muhammad of Islam. Muhammad has
8:07to live in Mecca, otherwise he is not
8:10anywhere. He is uh Islam comes crashing
8:13down. You have to have Muhammad living
8:15in that place because if he's no longer
8:18living in that place then it's not the
8:19same Muhammad is it not? See listen my
8:22name is Jay. There are many people named
8:24Jay right and you can say yes there was
8:27a guy named Jay who came to Whistla and
8:29we he talked for two days but if I never
8:32came to Whistla if I never even knew
8:33this place existed then I'm not the same
8:35Jay am I? And doesn't matter what you
8:37say about me, it's not me, it's someone
8:39else.
8:41In the same token, we need to make sure
8:43that when the Muslims are talking about
8:46their muhamad, it has to be the one from
8:49Mecca.
8:52So why is Mecca so important?
8:55Well, the main reason it still exists
8:56today, Muhammad doesn't exist today. We
8:58can't go to him. We can't talk to him.
9:00We can't even see his grave. There's
9:02nowhere since he doesn't even there's
9:04nothing referenced about him. There's no
9:06reason to even therefore waste our time
9:07on him. But we can on Mecca and that's
9:09the great thing about it. Therefore, we
9:11can research it. Now remember, Islam is
9:14based on three things and these are the
9:16three uh pillars of Islam. These are the
9:18three legs of Islam, one book called the
9:20Quran, one man named Muhammad and one
9:23place called Mecca. Now, if you start to
9:25attack one of those legs and you finally
9:28bring it down as we're going to do
9:30today, if it falls, the other two fall
9:32as well. That's why we're starting with
9:34Mecca because it's the weakest lake.
9:36It's the easiest to confront because it
9:39still exists. And you're going to see
9:42why. And it has to do with one word.
9:45Why the easiest way to attack Muhammad
9:47has to do with one word. But we'll get
9:49to that and you'll see as we go. If we
9:52eradicate Mecca, then there is no
9:54Islamic Muhammad nor an Islamic Quran.
9:58So, let's go ahead. So, let's begin by
10:00looking at what Muslims claim. I'm
10:02always going to start every one of these
10:04areas out by seeing what they claim
10:06first and then we're going to confront
10:08those claims so that we quote them so
10:10that we aren't creating a uh that we're
10:13not creating a myth or that we're not
10:15creating a a scarecrow. So what do they
10:18claim? Well, this is what they claim
10:21according to chapter 7 24 in the Quran.
10:23That's after surah 7 ayia 24. We don't
10:27we know that that Adam and Eve are
10:30thrown out of the Garden of Eden and we
10:31know that the Garden of Eden is up in
10:33space. Why? We'll just read the verse.
10:35They were thrown down to earth. So
10:38therefore, it's not on earth. Our garden
10:40of Eden is on earth. Am I correct? Just
10:42say yes.
10:44Whereas the Garden of Eden for Islam is
10:46up in space. So you can see already
10:48we're talking about two different
10:49gardens. Am I correct? Yeah.
10:52If they're thrown down to earth, where
10:54were they thrown down to? Well, the
10:55Quran doesn't tell you. You need to go
10:57to the traditions. You need to go to the
10:58the hadith. And it's the hadith that
11:00tell us that Adam was thrown down to Sri
11:03Lanka and Eve was thrown down to Mecca.
11:06Whoever did the throwing down was not a
11:07very good shot. Don't worry. Don't
11:09worry. Adam was 90t tall and so he just
11:12boom boom boom boom boom strode his way
11:14all the way up to join his wife in
11:16Mecca. But that's where you get it out
11:18of the Quran. The Quran doesn't tell you
11:20much about this story. All it tells you
11:22is what happened in the Garden of Eden.
11:24And what you're going to find in that
11:26garden of Eden, it's brilliant because
11:28many of the same things that happened
11:29there happened on earth in the biblical
11:31story, showing that they pulled this
11:33from the biblical story and they missed
11:35two salient points. The two most
11:37important points about our story is is
11:39that God's in that garden. Am I correct?
11:41In Genesis 3 8 and 9, he's walking and
11:44talking in the cool of the day. That you
11:46won't find in this garden. And if God is
11:48not there in the garden up in space and
11:50he is there on the garden of earth, that
11:52tells me my God can enter time and
11:54space. Their God can't even make it to
11:55the God their garden is up in space. But
11:58if there's God is not in their garden,
12:00then there was never any relationship
12:02with man from the very beginning.
12:04Look what kind of God they have. They've
12:06never seen him. Adam and Eve never knew
12:08him. There was no personal relationship
12:10from the very beginning. So immediately
12:11you're saying though we have the story
12:13there and we know that it does exist
12:15according to the Quran. When you start
12:18and unpack that you can go for a whole
12:19hour on how no wonder then they have no
12:22idea what sin's about. They have no idea
12:24what salvation is because their Adam and
12:27Eve never knew God face to face like our
12:29Adam and Eve did.
12:32And so there they are thrown out of the
12:34Garden of Eden down to Mecca. If they're
12:36thrown down to Mecca, at least she was,
12:38would that not suggest that that is the
12:40first inhabitation for mankind?
12:43Yes. No.
12:44>> Yes.
12:45>> Can you get anything earlier than Adam
12:46and Eve?
12:47>> No. So, it have to be the earliest
12:49establishment. Whatever year that is,
12:51I'm not going to debate that today.
12:54Regardless, you can't get anything
12:56earlier than Mecca. That's all I want to
12:58make the point. All right? It's the
13:00oldest inhabitant for mankind. Number
13:02two, according to chapter 21, Abraham is
13:06there in Mecca. I had no idea Abraham
13:08live that far south. Where in the Bible
13:11did Abraham live? Well, we know he was
13:12at and then he went up to Haran and he
13:14came down to what is today Israel. So,
13:17that is about another thousand to
13:18two,500
13:20miles further north, right? Did you is
13:23there any notion in the Bible that he
13:24went as far down as Mecca, which is
13:26right down the middle of the Arabian
13:28Peninsula? No. But here it is in chapter
13:3121.
13:32There in 51-71 he goes into the he into
13:36this caba this mul al haram doesn't call
13:39it the cabba it calls it the mul al
13:41haram mas haram means the forbidden
13:43place of bowing and you're going to see
13:45this referenced all the time the al
13:47haram the m haram so he goes into this
13:50mhalam we know it as that square
13:52building that's there today and he
13:54destroys all the idols that are in there
13:56so we know he was living in Mecca right
13:58according to the Quran according to the
14:01tradition traditions he rebuilds the
14:03mastilah haram with his son Ishmamail
14:06not Isaac Ishmamail
14:08so it's pretty important that that
14:10pretty much suggests that he therefore
14:12was living in 1900 BC because we know
14:14that Abraham lived in 1900 BC there in
14:171900 BC surah 21 ayah 51 we also know
14:22from the traditions that this was the
14:23center of trade norths south east and
14:25west
14:27now that's significant because that
14:29means that many people knew about it had
14:31to be pretty important if it was the
14:32center of trade for that entire part of
14:34the world. So we do know according to
14:37the Quran that he was there, Adam and
14:39Eve were there. We do know that Abraham
14:40was there, that the trade existed. So it
14:43should be one of the best known and best
14:46documented places in history. You would
14:48think so since it's the earliest.
14:51When you get to the Quran itself,
14:55here's the problem. It only refers to it
14:57one time in chapter 48:4. You have no
15:00other reference in the Quran for this
15:02place. If it's such an important place,
15:04if it's the earliest place for for
15:06mankind, if it's where Abraham lived,
15:08it's as we're going to find 300 prophets
15:11are buried there. Why is it we can only
15:14find one reference to it in the entire
15:15Quran? And when you look at chapter
15:1748:24, it doesn't say much about it. It
15:19just says it's in a valley, which it's
15:22not. Well, Mecca, uh, let's be careful.
15:24Mecca. There is a valley somewhere in
15:26Mecca, but not the masjid alab, not the
15:29Cabba. But what was interesting is we
15:32know it's the sanctuary. It's called the
15:33sanctu. What it? We don't know. It's
15:35where the prophet lived. So whenever you
15:37see in the Quran a reference, it's
15:39talking about where the prophet lived.
15:41And where the prophet live is a
15:43sanctuary according to chapter 3 96
15:45called Baka. Now Emil, you're an Arab
15:49speaker. Is Baka the same as Makkah?
15:51>> No way.
15:51>> Does it have the same roots?
15:53>> No way. And every Arabic word has to
15:55have three roots, right? Three
15:57continental roots. So we're not even
15:58talking about the same place. Can you
16:00see how this is an argument people try
16:03and Muslims are trying to say baka is
16:05Mecca. No, it is not. Just ask an Arab
16:07speaker. Completely different roots. So
16:09that well not different roots. The first
16:11root, the first consonant is completely
16:12different. And that's why it cannot be
16:14the same place. And we know where Baka
16:16is. There's a bucka in the Lebanon
16:18Valley. In fact, we know of three
16:19different buckas that the Bible's
16:21talking about for and in all cases those
16:24three buckas are 1,000 to,200 miles
16:26further north. Well known in history,
16:28but not this place. Mecca is the mother
16:31of all settlements. Well, the place
16:33where the prophet lives is the mother of
16:34all settlements according to chapter 6
16:36verse 92 and chapter 42:7. It is where
16:40Adam and Eve were cast down. I already
16:42said that in chapter 7. Abraham lived
16:43there in chapter 21. It was where
16:46Muhammad was born according to the
16:48traditions and it was also the center of
16:50the kibla. The kibla means the center of
16:52the pray of where you pray. So every
16:54mosque anywhere around the world was
16:56supposed to be faced towards Mecca and
16:58is today.
17:01And we see that in chapter 2 verse 149
17:03to 150 because the mul alh haram was
17:06redirected then away from the great
17:08place to the farthest place. Whatever
17:10that means we're going to find out.
17:14Now, here's what's interesting. All of
17:17these references, though it doesn't give
17:19the word Mecca, they're all implying
17:20they are Mecca because the Muslims today
17:22say they are Mecca. And we have to go
17:24with what the Muslims say today. But
17:26when you ask Muslims prove that this is
17:28Mecca, they can't.
17:30It's just tradition tells them this has
17:32to be Mecca. If all these places are so
17:35important, why did not the authors of
17:37the Quran write it as Mecca?
17:40Well, because there was no Mecca when
17:42this book was written. as we're going to
17:44see. But I got to prove my point.
17:48So the only reference is Mecca. Now when
17:50you get to the traditions, the
17:51traditions are written much later. And
17:54the traditions are written as we're
17:56going to see in fact what we're going to
17:58find out. I thought in 9th and 10th
17:59century they're written in the 12th. So
18:01by that time wa mecca is well
18:03established. So they do use the word
18:05Mecca by the time you get to the
18:07traditions because they're 500 to a,000
18:09years later. But what look what they
18:11say. This is what's fascinating. Even
18:13the traditions though they're written so
18:15late. Notice what they say about this
18:17place. This place called in Mecca. It's
18:20in a valley with a parallel valley.
18:22Mecca is the Must Al Haram is not in a
18:24valley and it does not have a parallel
18:26valley in Mecca at all. Safa and Marwa
18:29had shrines to idols at top them before
18:31Islam. The Sappa and Badwa, you're going
18:33to find out they've got the wrong Safa
18:35and the wrong Mwa. Those are the two
18:37hills that they run back and forth after
18:39they do the circumambulation around the
18:41Cabba um for to to commemorate what
18:44happened to Hagar. It has a stream going
18:46through it. It has fields going through
18:48it uh on it. It has trees and grass and
18:52fruit and clay and lom and grapes and
18:55grain and pomegrants. Folks, it has
18:57olive trees. There are no olive trees
18:59outside of the Mediterranean a thousand
19:02miles further north.
19:04What does that suggest when you look at
19:05the traditions? This is a place with
19:07lots of vertic. This is a place with
19:09lots of vegetation. Look at those
19:11pictures there. Does that look like
19:12there's an awful lot of vegetation? And
19:14now we're looking at it. This is from
19:16the 20th century.
19:19Mecca is not in a valley
19:24as its nearest mountains are two miles
19:26away. It does not have mountains and
19:27overlooking the masil haram. It has none
19:30of these vegetations listed above
19:32because it's in a desert, folks. It's
19:35much too arid and much too dry to
19:37support any of the above. According to
19:39the modern soil samples, in fact,
19:40according to the modern soil studies,
19:42there has been no water in any of that
19:44place for over for over six millennia.
19:50So, you cannot say that this is the
19:52place that the traditions are talking
19:54about. Conclusion. In the Quran, Mecca
19:58is referred to as the place of the
19:59prophet. But in the 9th and 10th century
20:02traditions, the Mecca they portray
20:03suggests that the author lived much,
20:05much further north, much further north
20:08where all these would come into play.
20:11Streams and trees and grass and fruit,
20:14fruit and clay, lom, and of course olive
20:17trees. Olive trees really gives it away
20:19because you cannot have olive trees
20:21outside of the Mediterranean. And that's
20:23folks 600 to a,000 miles further north.
20:26Let's talk about the geographical
20:28problems.
20:30When you open the Quran and you read it,
20:31there are 65 geographical references,
20:34but there are only nine places that are
20:36actually named. And many of them are
20:38repeated over and over and over again.
20:40And the three most common geographical
20:42names that are repeated are the place
20:45where these people live. And uh 23 times
20:48it refers to the people from Ad which
20:51would be the biblical ooze that we are
20:53know in the Bible. Look and see where is
20:57way up there. See it up there. Look
20:59where Mecca is way down here. Do you see
21:01a problem?
21:04If he's having relationship, this
21:05prophet is having relationship with the
21:07people from on a daily basis. How can he
21:10do that if he's 600 miles further south
21:12on a daily basis?
21:1524 times he has relationship with people
21:17from Tamud. The Tamud are the Nabotans.
21:20They're the people up here in what is
21:21today Jordan.
21:23They're the ones who cut dwellings into
21:24mountains. Petra, if you've seen Petra,
21:27the beautiful city of Petra, that's what
21:29it's talking about. But that's not down
21:31in Mecca. That's 600 miles further
21:33north. Seven times it refers that he has
21:36this this relationship with the
21:38Midianites. Now, they must be important.
21:40These three civilizations are all
21:42located in northern Arabia and even
21:45further north and not in Mecca.
21:48Therefore, in in order for him to have
21:50relationship over and over and over
21:52again according to the Quran, he would
21:54either have to have a helicopter or an
21:55airplane to go 600 miles up and 600
21:57miles down in one day. You can't do
22:00that. Not by camel back. So obviously
22:04wherever the Quran's referring to it's
22:06obviously either referring to these
22:08people live down there but there are no
22:10people these people don't live there
22:11because they're in history we know all
22:13about them and they're all located 600
22:16miles to a,000 miles to far north. other
22:20geographical problem. Alabi who writes
22:22in the 10th century though he now we now
22:24know he actually wrote in the 13th
22:27century redacted back to the 10th
22:28century between um just a few um the
22:32messages passing let's do it again alab
22:34relates to a story of messages passing
22:37back and forth in just a few days
22:39between Damascus which is way up in
22:42northern Syria and the holy city but it
22:45doesn't mention Mecca again
22:47interestingly bi do I mean would know
22:50all about Mecca at that time talking
22:52about the caiff. Yet the caiff only
22:54lived 40 days. How could messages pass
22:57900 miles both ways without roads and by
23:00camel? Alabi mentions that people coming
23:02from Medina entered Mecca from the
23:05south. Yet Medina is to the north of
23:07Mecca. Bingo. You got a problem. Even
23:10Tabar thinks that Mecca's up north. Alab
23:13also states that the Quresh of Mecca
23:15attacked Medina from the north, though
23:17Mecca is located to the south. These
23:19would only make sense if the holy city
23:21were north of Medina. Quite a bit north
23:24of Medina. All right, that's something
23:26you were saying at the table. We're
23:28going to get more on that talking about
23:29the Goreshi. Wait, then we're going to
23:30talk about that as well. So, let's do a
23:33comparison. When you look and and you
23:35look at the Bible, because the Bible
23:37also has many geographical locations as
23:39well.
23:41The Quran has 65, right? Nine places
23:45name 600 miles too far north. every one
23:48of the places that our name are in the
23:49wrong place in the Quran. If if if Mecca
23:53did exist, all right? And the assumption
23:56is Mecca did exist. At least that's what
23:58Muslims say today. When you look at the
24:00Bible, we have 110 geographical uh
24:05references in a,51 verses. 31 places are
24:10named,
24:11not just nine. And every one of them are
24:14in the right place. Not one of them's
24:17out of place. And yet they predate the
24:19Quran by 700 years
24:22and even earlier if you're going to the
24:23Old Testament. So can you see when you
24:25do a like with like, why is it we get
24:27all the right places in the right
24:30location and the right references at the
24:33right time? Oo, I love my Bible. But
24:36that's why it's so good to do like with
24:38like. You've got to do like with like.
24:40Now, let's get to the kiba. This is Dan
24:42Gibson's material. Many of you know what
24:44I'm doing putting up on the screen
24:45there. You can see to the two things
24:46bouncing Petra and Mecca. Why do I put
24:49Petra up there? Dan Gibson from 1989 to
24:532005 for 25 years went to every mosque
24:56that he could find. He was the first to
24:58do so.
25:01There are many others who were
25:02considered to be more authoritative than
25:04Dan Gibson. Dr. Martin, Dr. David, um,
25:07David, David, David, David, let's just
25:09say Dr. David, I can't remember his last
25:11name. Ling or something like that was
25:13the one that is considered the world's
25:14authority on the kiblas on the mosque.
25:17David only went to one mosque in his
25:20entire career. Dan Gibson went to every
25:23mosque went to over a hundred mosques.
25:26And you need to go to the mosque to see
25:27where the kibla walls are because the
25:29most of these mosques are in ruins or
25:31they've been rebuilt over top of the
25:34original floor plans. You need to go to
25:35the original floor plans and see where
25:37the longest wall is because that's
25:39always the kibla wall. That's where it's
25:41directed. The kibla is the direction.
25:42Now, according to what you've been told,
25:44all the mosques everywhere all over the
25:47world are directed towards Mecca, right?
25:49Because that's where they are today. And
25:51every wall has to be directed towards
25:52Mecca. He went to every one of these
25:55mosques in the seventh century. He
25:56wasn't interested in the 9th and 10th
25:58and 11th. He wanted to go to the seventh
26:00century because that's when, of course,
26:02Muhammad lived. That's when Mecca
26:04existed. That's therefore where the
26:06kibla should have been directed. And he
26:08found that every moss unanimously every
26:11moss up until 706 that's the 8th century
26:15every moss was facing Petra
26:17only one degree off
26:21looking at calculations today every
26:23mosque was facing Petra that included as
26:25far away as China that one is in dispute
26:28that's why I have a question mark on it
26:29because some people have believed that
26:30that is not the original mosque
26:32nonetheless it's still facing Petra
26:34today
26:36India in Sherman facing Petra. The Jama
26:41the Jami Hama al-Kabir mosque in Syria
26:44that's facing Petra. Fustadat mosque out
26:46of Egypt that's facing Petra. The Dome
26:49of the Rock in fact the entire citadel
26:51of the Dome of the Rock including the
26:53Alexa mosque which is on the eastern
26:55wall the southern wall all of it the
26:57entire including the the the 709 built
27:02Alexa are all facing Petra. They still
27:05are today. You can't change it. That's
27:07what's neat. Once you build it, you got
27:08to keep it.
27:12The Umima mosque in Jordan, the Aman
27:14mosque in Jordan, the Grand Sana mosque
27:16in Yemen, the KBA Alminia mosque in
27:18Israel. Every mosque is facing Petra.
27:21Why in the world are they facing Petra?
27:24Every kibla from 624 to up to 706 are
27:28facing Petra. Not one is facing Mecca.
27:31In fact, the first kibla, the first
27:33mosque that has a kibla facing Mecca is
27:35not until 715. Muhammad died in 632.
27:40Do you see a problem, folks?
27:44Not till 705. 715. This suggests that
27:47Mecca was not chosen until the late 7th
27:50or early 8th century.
27:54But you cannot say that. The problem
27:56with that is every Muslim knows that all
27:58the mosques even preceding Muhammad were
28:01all facing Mecca because Mecca was the
28:04oldest city. Now we come to the prophets
28:06themselves.
28:08According to the traditions, there are
28:10references over and over again to the
28:13where the prophets died. And where the
28:15prophets died is where they're buried.
28:17You're buried within 24 hours before the
28:19sun goes down usually.
28:21Am I correct, Emil? See, Emil's here
28:24just to say yes to everything I say.
28:26I've got them all programmed. I'm going
28:28to pay him afterwards.
28:30If I say anything wrong, Emily, you'll
28:32probably get up and pretty start remmon
28:34straight, okay? Because I need some
28:35heckling just to make me feel at home.
28:39Look at Adam and Eve. Reuben Wheeler
28:41quoting from the standard Islamic
28:43narrative traditions say that when Adam
28:45died, he was buried in Mount Abu Kubai
28:47Kubis near Mecca where Eve also had also
28:50been living. Now Ruby Urin says that the
28:53cabba aspects of the ritual functions
28:55and position of the pre-Islamic and
28:56early Islamic times refers to this
28:59problem. So does Wheeler Alcasai who
29:01comes later says specifically that the
29:03angels laid him in a grave his head at
29:05the sight of the Cabba and his feet
29:07stretched out. So obviously Adam were
29:10born were living and set cast down to
29:12Mecca. They also died in Mecca according
29:15to Abu Kabis Kubis and also according to
29:18the research by Ruben and Wheeler.
29:21Also notice note where the ancient mount
29:24Abu Kubayis is situated. It's in
29:27northern Syria just southeast of Latakia
29:31on the coast of the Mediterranean Sea
29:32almost 1,200 miles north of Mecca. In
29:36this is this an example of borrowing
29:38from the earlier places? Absolutely it
29:39is. But isn't it curious that almost
29:42every place, even the names of the
29:44places that they're borrowing from are
29:451,200 miles further north, not south and
29:49certainly not in the Arabian Peninsula.
29:52Look at Seth. According to Uri Rubin,
29:54who quotes where who quotes it is said
29:57that Seth the third son of Adam and Eve
29:59was also buried where Adam and Eve were
30:01buried. Where were Adam and Eve buried?
30:03In Mecca. Okay. What about Ishmael? On
30:06the authority of Al-Masudi, Uri Rubin
30:08says that when Ishmael died, he was
30:10buried in Mecca opposite the place of
30:12the black stone. Where is the black
30:13stone, folks? It's on the eastern corer
30:17of the Cabba. Still there today. We're
30:20going to talk more about it later on.
30:22The sacredness attached in Muslim
30:24tradition to the Hij is focused on the
30:26idea that this area was the burial place
30:28of the noble dead, especially Ishmamail,
30:30who is connected with Muslim legend with
30:33the history of the Cabba. The tomb of
30:35this patriarch is found there. Let's
30:38talk about Noah. When the flood was
30:39over, Noah rebuilt um reburied Adam in
30:43Mecca, suggesting that Noah lived there
30:45as well. Alcasai notes, "On one
30:47pilgrimage, Noah turned and saw Adam's
30:49kiln to the right of the Cabba." So,
30:51he's actually there watching the Cabba
30:54and asked no God if it could be moved to
30:56his house. God told the angels to carry
30:58it to Noah's house, which was then where
31:00the mosque of the Kufa now stands.
31:02That's in Iraq today. When Noah took
31:05Adam's body, it was still fresh and
31:06unchanged except for his fingernails
31:08which had grown dark for lack of fresh
31:10air. He also took Adam's scoffer in
31:12which were the prophet's stabs numbered
31:15at 300 and written by the will upon each
31:18of which was written its own's name. So
31:20it looks like Noah was also buried there
31:24in Mecca. Hood
31:27from the hmat of the great grandson of
31:30Noah. So he was in the family of Noah
31:32according to surah 111 is also from
31:35Mecca.
31:36Salai Briner quoting alab but he says
31:39that Salai the grandfather of Hagar from
31:41Medina Salah died in Mecca. If he died
31:44there he must be buried there. And on
31:46the basis of what Umar al akar who said
31:48a prophet is buried nowhere but the
31:51place where he died. According to a
31:52hadith no prophet was ever buried except
31:55where he died.
31:57The queen of Sheba. Well, wheel writes
32:00that the grave of Balkis, the queen of
32:02Sheba was found during the reign of
32:04Kaiffwalled and bore the inscription
32:06here is the grave of the pious Balis,
32:09the queen of Sheba, the concert of the
32:11Solom prophet Solomon and the son of
32:13David. She was converted to the true
32:15faith in the 13th year of the Solomon's
32:17accession to the R throne, married him
32:19on the 14th. When the lid of her coffin
32:21was opened, they discovered a female
32:23form which was fresh, well preserved, as
32:24if it had been just buried. All of these
32:28people, folks, were all buried in Mecca.
32:30These are the traditions telling us
32:31this. They're the traditions all written
32:33in the 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th
32:35century redacted back. Now, do you
32:37believe all these people were buried in
32:39Mecca? I don't. But nonetheless, that's
32:41what they believe. That's why we're
32:43quoting them. We have to quote them.
32:45Even Daniel in the lion's den, I'm not
32:47going to read it all. It'll take me all
32:48day to read all that. But even according
32:50to Iban Cathedral, Daniel was also
32:52buried in Mecca.
32:55Se to 300 prophets according to the
32:58traditions were buried in Mecca. Ruin
33:01notes a tradition of Mukatil says that
33:03between Zum and the Ruken there were
33:06buried 70 prophets. The Zum well is just
33:09about 30 meters from the Cabba folks.
33:11Within that 30 meter space, there are 70
33:14prophets that have been buried there
33:16including Hud, Salah, and Ishmamail.
33:18Another tradition which is traced back
33:20to the prophet states that the graves of
33:22new
33:23sal and Ishmael were located between the
33:25zumam and the makam. In a further
33:28tradition, the number of prophets buried
33:30between the rrooken and the makam and
33:31the zumam is said to have been 77 or 99.
33:35Another tradition speaks of 70 prophets
33:38buried. The prophet also reported that
33:40around the cabba there were buried 300
33:43prophets. Now remember there's 144,000
33:46prophets in Islam. So 300 is not that
33:49many. I don't care how many it is. The
33:51fact that they're all quoted as being
33:52buried there is what I'm looking for.
33:54All buried between the Ruken Alammani
33:56and the Ruken Alwad there were buried
33:5970. Wheeler also notes that in the exes
34:01of chapter 2 verse 125 also reports that
34:05Shu along with Hud Sali Ishmail and Noah
34:08are buried in at the sanctuary there in
34:10Mecca. So are you getting a pro the
34:12notice that there's an awful lot of
34:14people buried all around there. They're
34:16all prophets, right? Well, let's notice
34:17what happens when they're buried.
34:19According to Ask God, it is narrated in
34:22the Sahib authentic hadith that the
34:24prophets said the prophets are alive and
34:26their grave and in their grave praying.
34:28So, they were buried in a praying
34:30position still praying because they
34:32don't deteriorate.
34:33So, there should be there today. Am I
34:36correct? If that's correct,
34:39one of the ways in which Allah honors
34:41his prophets and messengers is that the
34:43earth does not consume their bodies. No
34:45matter how long a time passes, their
34:47bodies remain preserved from decay.
34:49According to the hadith, Allah has
34:50forbidden the earth to consume the
34:52bodies of the prophets. The sah sound in
34:55authentic texts indicate that the bodies
34:57of the prophets will not decay or
34:59disappear as happened to the bodies of
35:01others.
35:02Allah has forbidden the earth to consume
35:05the bodies of the prophets. So that
35:07means they should be there today. That's
35:09all I want to get to. That's all the
35:10point I'm trying to make. Note these
35:12prophets, Adam, Eve, Seth, Ishmamail,
35:14Noah, Hood, Sal, Queen of Sheba, Daniel.
35:17Up to 300 prophets all lived or died and
35:20were buried kneeling in a kneeling
35:22position there in Mecca. So their bodies
35:24should be there today. Note the
35:26buildings that are happening that are
35:27going up right now. That is that big
35:29clock tower there is the fourth highest
35:31building in the world. There are going
35:33to be 62 skyscrapers that they're
35:35building as we speak there in Mecca.
35:37When you build buildings that high,
35:39you've got to dig deep foundations,
35:42right? Just say yes. Of course you do.
35:45If you're digging big foundations,
35:47what's the first thing you're going to
35:48find? Bodies. If there's 300 of them
35:51buried all around the Cabba, they're
35:53going to find bodies. Why is it they
35:55haven't found one body?
35:57Not one body.
36:03This would mean that almost all of the
36:05Bible, if this was correct, would have
36:08to be rewritten and all of the stories
36:09be redirected 600 to a,000 miles further
36:12south. Yet, there is so much evidence
36:14for the biblical narrative of our who
36:16the prophets are and where they were
36:17buried. Almost nothing for Islam. We
36:20can't find one support for any of these
36:23prophets.
36:26The more you claim, the more you're
36:27going to have to support. That's why
36:29it's so easy. We just let them talk and
36:31then ask them one simple question. Where
36:34and when? So, what are they now doing in
36:36Mecca? And this is what's interesting.
36:38Look and see what's happening in Mecca
36:39as we speak. There's the royal clock
36:42tower. That's the fourth highest
36:43building in the world. Huge with all
36:45those hotels. Notice they're trying to
36:47make the clock tower to look like Big
36:49Ben. Because what they would like to do,
36:51they would like to replace Granite's
36:52meantime with Mecca meantime. So all our
36:56clocks are going to be going to Mecca in
36:57just a number of years because they want
36:59to call that they want to say that
37:01that's going to be the center of earth.
37:02If you look and see what that's the
37:04future is just look at all those
37:06different plans for Mecca. They're
37:07cementing everything over. Why do you
37:09think they're cementing everything over?
37:11Take a closer look and you'll see why.
37:13Right there that is Khadijah's house.
37:15They have now cemented it over to build
37:17these big towers. Khadijah is the wife
37:20of Muhammad. Why would you destroy the
37:22wife of Muhammad's house? Look at this
37:24one right there. That is where Muhammad
37:25was born. It has now been cemented over.
37:27There's no there's no house there
37:29anymore.
37:31If you were to do that to any of the
37:33patriarchal places in of our biblical
37:35times, there would be all kinds of of
37:37people upset. Not one person has said
37:39anything about this.
37:42The Meccan authorities are very clear
37:43that they wanted this all cemented over.
37:45So why do you think they're cementing it
37:47over? Why would you guess?
37:49To date,
37:51no ruins have been found. Nothing has
37:53been found in Mecca. Dan Gibson was at a
37:56um was at a meeting in Dubai with with a
37:59number of other archaeologists and he
38:01sat at the table with the Saudi Arabians
38:03specifically want to ask them one
38:05question and he said you know if this is
38:07the oldest city in the history of
38:08mankind according to your traditions uh
38:10if this is where Adam and Eve lived and
38:12of course this is where Abraham lived
38:14and this is where all the trade went and
38:15this is where all the prophets were
38:17buried. Um have you been able to find
38:19anything with all these huge buildings
38:21that you're building there? Can you find
38:22one structure, one piece? Because the
38:24more you dig, the more the
38:26archaeologists show up. Whenever there
38:28is a large digging going on in any
38:30ancient city, the archaeologists are the
38:32first there because you're doing the job
38:33for them. And they ask for artifacts and
38:36you want artifacts that are dug out of
38:37the sand. And the more artifacts you
38:39find, the more you can recreate the
38:40history of the city, different layers of
38:42artifacts, you can then create that
38:44history. And so they asked them, he
38:46asked them, "Well, what have you found?"
38:47And they kind of look bunk down at their
38:49plates. They didn't want to answer. say
38:51what is the earliest thing you have
38:52found and they say it's it is it is
38:55pieces of this fort from the 1300s is
38:59the earliest material they have been
39:00able to find 1300 AD folks not BC
39:04that's the Ottoman period that came into
39:06existence in 1299
39:09that doesn't sit pretty well for Mecca
39:11does it proving suggesting that there is
39:14no history there because there was no
39:16city there now we get to the
39:18ctographical problems
39:20It just cannot be found on any map. What
39:23do the earliest maps show us? Now, maps
39:25are rather a new invention. They didn't
39:28have match maps in the ancient world.
39:30Primary because they couldn't look down
39:32from space like we can today, but
39:34obviously back then as well,
39:36it was difficult to have that
39:37three-dimensional idea of looking down
39:39on something.
39:41So, geographical documents were used to
39:43keep tracks of towns and cities. They
39:45would just list the geographical places
39:47and they would always list what they
39:49were next to or nearby. A stream, a
39:51mountain, a huge rock or some type of
39:54thing that could be seen. Dr. Patricia
39:57Kuron that I referred to yesterday, the
39:59lady who has can read and write 15
40:02languages has done her job by going back
40:05to all these archaic documents to find
40:07out if she could find Mecca. And she
40:09wrote a book about it in 1987 called
40:11Meccan Trade and the rise of Islam.
40:14And she noticed that there are Greek
40:16trading documents that refer to towns
40:18such as Tif which is just uh southeast
40:21of Mecca, Ythr, which is northeast of
40:23Mecca, and Kaibad, which is directly
40:25north of Mecca. But there is no
40:27reference to Mecca itself. What's more,
40:30the earliest maps don't show Mecca. In
40:32fact, we can't find any map that shows
40:34Mecca until 900 AD.
40:36Mecca is supposed to been there from the
40:38time of Adam and Eve. Nothing before 900
40:41AD. So let's look at the earliest maps
40:43which do exist from the Arabian
40:45Peninsula created to describe Patonomy's
40:47geography of Arabia. The man who did the
40:50best work on on Arabia itself is Ponamy
40:53from the 2 century AD. And he wrote
40:56about all these places though he never
40:57went there himself. So he had no idea
41:00where they were located. He just listed
41:02them from what people had told him who
41:04had been there along the trade route.
41:07And if you look at the maps that were
41:08created to support what he was saying,
41:11uh here's one from uh put together by
41:13Lar Hole in 1482. Notice what's missing.
41:17Everything's there except Mecca.
41:20Here's another map created by Lauron
41:23Fries in 1541.
41:26Where's Mecca? Mecca is not on that map.
41:29Here's another map put together by
41:32Sebastian Müster looking at the
41:33geography of Arabia. Again, Mecca is
41:36missing on that map as well.
41:39Here's another map. This one is not is
41:42not by any particularly. It's more of a
41:44modern map redacted back to the 7th
41:45century. But again, notice noting
41:48everything that the people told us about
41:49that time period. Mecca is not there.
41:54And then here's another seventh century
41:56map redacted back to the seventh
41:57century. I'm sorry, from today. Mecca is
42:00missing. every map they can find. Mecca
42:04just doesn't exist. Not until after the
42:0610th century. Now we get into the trade
42:09route problems. A scholar in the last
42:12century named Dr. Got Montgomery Watt.
42:14Emil, you know what the trade route
42:15theory is? This is what I was brought up
42:17on whenever I studied Islam. We always
42:19had to know why is it that Mecca was
42:21important because everybody even the
42:23Muslims are aware and they're having a
42:25problem with trying to support Mecca.
42:28And so back in the last century since
42:30there's no reference to this place, you
42:33cannot really then place Islam anywhere.
42:35And if you can't place Islam where it
42:36was as if I were to say you that there's
42:38no Jerusalem, how would you support
42:40Jesus's death there?
42:43If there was no Jerusalem, then what was
42:45what was Jesus doing? Where's Golgtha?
42:47How did he die and rise again? If
42:49there's no Jerusalem, what are you going
42:50to do with David? What are you going to
42:52do with Abraham? What are you going to
42:53do with any of the prophets who went to
42:55Jerusalem? We'd have to throw all that
42:56out. That's why this is significant.
42:59Take away Jerusalem, you take away both
43:01the old and the new testament. And then
43:03you he could they could be anywhere.
43:06You have to have a major city. You have
43:08to have the city that is where the
43:12center of everything because the Cabba
43:14if you don't have Mecca, you don't have
43:15the Cabba. If you don't have the Cabba,
43:18it could be any religion, any animistic
43:20faith that has then coalesed into a
43:22religion called Islam at a much later
43:24date.
43:26So the trade route theory was brought
43:28together by Montgomery to help the
43:30Muslims out. He didn't created for that
43:32reason. It did help them out and they
43:34were very happy for it because what did
43:37he did? He said, "Well, listen, if Mecca
43:39didn't exist, why then why was it
43:42important? Then how if there was no
43:44Mecca,
43:46then of course he saw the the
43:48realization as did every Muslim that
43:50there's no Islam. You can't have it
43:52without Mecca. So he came up with this
43:54theory of concerning what was happening
43:57at the time. Now the people who were
43:59really involved in this whole theory
44:01were two people. One was Dr. Patricia
44:03Kuroner who you see up there now uh who
44:05is my friend colleague and also my
44:08professor when I started my doctorate
44:10she was my second supervisor and she is
44:13the one that really confronted this
44:15theory. She did an amazing job and be
44:17the reason why she's such an amazing job
44:19because she's a linguist and because she
44:22knew all these languages she could read
44:23the original documents which no one had
44:25done before her including Montgomery
44:27Watt. There's Montgomery Watt there.
44:29According to Will Montgomery Watt in his
44:32theory he looked and he went back and he
44:34says in order to understand why Mecca
44:36became important why it did finally come
44:38into the picture we need to look and see
44:40what was happening back then. So this is
44:42a 7th century map. This is what we think
44:46today the seventh century looked like.
44:48Now notice Mecca is on that map. You see
44:50it's there.
44:52It's right there. There's Mecca, right?
44:54So Mecca is on this map because every
44:56map today will have Mecca on it because
44:58that's the standard Islamic narrative.
45:00So everything you've been told is Mecca
45:02is there, right? So let's just assume
45:04Mecca is there. Now what he was saying
45:06is all the trade was coming from way
45:08over here uh from India and way over
45:10here China. They all had to come this
45:13direction to get over to the
45:14Mediterranean world here. They couldn't
45:16go this direction because you have the
45:17Himalayan mountains there and you have
45:19the Hindu Kush here. So that stopped the
45:21trade from going this route and so it
45:23came down to the western coast of India
45:25to places like Gujarat and uh and it
45:27would come across from here across over
45:30to here. So it'd come across the Arabian
45:32Sea and then go through the straits of
45:34Homers up the up to Basra and from Basra
45:38there it would then go across what is
45:41today Iraq and Syria over to the
45:43Mediterranean world and that's where the
45:44trade route went. That's where it used
45:46to go until the fifth century. In the
45:49fifth century the Sassan who are your
45:52Persians who are your Zorastrians
45:54started battling with the Byzantines who
45:56are your Christians. And the Persians
45:59and the Byzantines started battling each
46:01other. And because of these battles that
46:03were going on, that stopped the trade
46:05from going this direction. It couldn't
46:07no longer go there. It was too
46:08dangerous. Right? So far so good. So
46:12what happened? Well, this is what he
46:14said happened. They had to redirect the
46:16trade and go this way. So now they went
46:20down the Arabian Sea down to Aiden. And
46:23then from Adiden through Mecca and on up
46:26to Gaza 1,200 miles uh to the north.
46:30That is the trade route theory. And
46:32that's what I've been taught Emil.
46:33That's what you were taught. That's what
46:35any of you take Islamic studies even
46:37today. That is what now created the
46:40reason for Mecca's ascendancy from the
46:43fifth century on. So from the fifth
46:44century on, that means 200 years before
46:46Muhammad came onto the scene, Mecca
46:48became got important because it was the
46:50center of the trade. All right. Looking
46:51at that map, any problems with that
46:53theory?
46:55My 10-year-old son saw one right away,
46:58and it's the one that Patricia Kuron
46:59found really good, but she came up with
47:01two problems. But go ahead. Let's see if
47:03any of you can find any problems. What's
47:05your problem with it?
47:06>> Chips are easier to go.
47:07>> Good man. Let's give him a hand. Well
47:09done. That's the first and biggest
47:11problem. Just take a look at that map.
47:12And what do you notice? There is a big
47:15There is a big sea on the western coast,
47:17right? The Red Sea.
47:20Why in the world? She asked. But let's
47:22before we get to that one, there's
47:23another one that she found. And this is
47:24a little bit more specific. This is a
47:26little bit more difficult to find. So,
47:27let's take away this line here and let's
47:30go back and let's follow the trade route
47:31because there is a trade route that is
47:34in Arabia and it does start at Aiden in
47:36the south and it goes along here. It
47:38goes up to Taiv. There is Tif. And then
47:41from Ty, notice boom, it comes back down
47:44to Mecca. You notice I say down to Mecca
47:47and then from Mecca back up to Ythreb
47:49and then from Ythre up to Tabukar Tabuk
47:52and then of course up to Gaza and from
47:55Gaza on up into the Mediterranean. But
47:57do you see the detour there? Can you see
47:59the detour?
48:01No. Okay, let me show you a
48:02topographical map. Let's show you the
48:04This is the trade route that is well
48:06known. And this trade route did had did
48:08exist using leather and grapes and also
48:12salt. How do you build an empire on
48:15leather and salt? I don't know. But
48:16that's what Tuchrona found. So, let's go
48:18look at a topographical map and let's
48:20look at this again. There's Aiden.
48:22There's Sana. There is Najaran. There is
48:25Tif. There goes Ythre. What are they all
48:28on? They're on a plateau. Do you see the
48:31plateau? Pretty clear, can't you? When
48:33you get a topographical map and then of
48:35course from Ythre all up to Dabuk and to
48:37Gaza, Petra and to Gaza in the north.
48:40So, where is Mecca? Is it on that
48:42plateau? No, it's off the plateau 3,000
48:46feet down.
48:48It's nowhere near the plateau. And where
48:50the plateau is is where are the oasis.
48:53Every one of those green stars is an
48:55oasis. That's where the water is. That's
48:58where the caravans go. That's why they
49:01exist. And they're almost equal distance
49:03apart. But not Mecca. There's no water
49:06there. It's off the plateau. You still
49:09don't believe me? Here, let's look at a
49:10a nisure one. Here is a topographical
49:13map using lines. There's Aiden and
49:15there's Sana. There is Naja. Now we have
49:17Tif. There we have Yathre. There you
49:19have Tabbook. Up to Petra and Gaza.
49:22Where's Mecca? Bingo.
49:24Once again, it is clear that Mecca is
49:26way down. 3,000 ft off the plateau.
49:29Without it and water, it would not be a
49:31place for camels or trade. You need to
49:34have water to have food. You need to
49:35have food for the camels. The camels
49:37would have to go down to a place that
49:39had no water for no reason whatsoever,
49:41then come back up a 3,000 meters to
49:43Ythur that did have water. That's the
49:46first problem. Okay. So, she then looked
49:49at this map one more time. She says,
49:51"Hold on a minute." And she did what?
49:52What's your name?
49:53>> Martin.
49:54>> Martin. What? Martin noticed. None of
49:55you else noticed it, but Martin noticed
49:57it. We'll give him an A for today. She
50:00He said, and this is what she found. now
50:02because she could read all the
50:03languages. She read all the trading
50:05documents from the second, third,
50:06fourth, fifth, sixth up until the 7th
50:08century. No one had bothered to do that
50:10beforehand. But then they didn't have
50:12the capacity to do that because they
50:14couldn't read these languages. She
50:15could. And this is what she found. All
50:18the trade was maritime. Why? Well, it's
50:20the cheapest way to go. Even if you, she
50:24said, if you take one ton of goods by
50:27land, you could only go 50 miles by land
50:30for the same price as 1,250 mi by sea.
50:34That's why even today everything goes by
50:36sea. They all go by sea. Back there in
50:40those days, if you take it by land, you
50:42have to have camels. You have to feed
50:43them. You have to water them. You could
50:45be attacked at any time. The the those
50:47who are attacking you could be behind a
50:49sanddude. They could be behind a hill.
50:51They could be behind a rock. You had to
50:52secure yourself. You go by sea, there's
50:56no water. You don't need any camels. You
50:58have a boat that has a sail. The wind
51:00pushes it. If you see that, you can see
51:03the enemy miles away. You could quickly
51:05tuck yourself into one of the coes to
51:08protect yourself. That's why everybody
51:10went by sea. Nobody went by land if you
51:14didn't need to, if you had a sea there.
51:16So the trade route she found and all the
51:18trading documents in fact up here in in
51:20the western coast of India. She went to
51:23India and she found that all the trading
51:25documents had this name on it Agilus
51:28which isra today. It was therans that
51:32control the trade there and they're the
51:35Ethiopians. Their names are all over the
51:37trade goods. There was no Arab names
51:39because the Arabs were not seaf farers
51:42for one very good reason. We'll get to
51:44that. They were camel herders. They were
51:46desert folk. They were nomadic, not the
51:49Ethiopians. They knew what they were
51:51doing. And then from Agilus, it went up
51:53the Red Sea and it went on up to Petra
51:56and Gaza. And then from Gaza, right
51:58across the Mediterranean world. So all
52:00the trade was maritime.
52:03But why hadn't anybody noticed it until
52:041987? Until 1987, no one knew this
52:08point. And she got death threats for
52:10writing this. She had to leave Oxford
52:12University and go to Cambridge
52:13University. That's where I met her.
52:15Folks, why do you get death threats for
52:18finding something that everybody should
52:19know? Because Muslims don't like this
52:22that ruined their theory for them and it
52:24shut down Montgomery Watts theory. So
52:26yet today, you go to school of oriental
52:29African study and they still teach the
52:30trade route theory.
52:33And that's her alma mater. That's where
52:34she got her doctorate from. Isn't that
52:36sad? today all over Britain. That's all
52:39they teach because the Muslims will not
52:41allow you to look at these maps or hear
52:44what's really happened. But she made a
52:46mistake. She didn't go far enough. If
52:48they went up the Red Sea, here's the
52:50question I want to ask. And we asked it
52:52as a team and I looked at that. I
52:54remember looking I said, "Why in the
52:55world do they go to Agilus? Why didn't
52:57they go to Jedha?"
52:59Cuz Jedha is the port that supports
53:02Mecca today.
53:04That's right. Mecca is in 35 miles from
53:06the sea. But Jedha is there and that's
53:08where you get all your food. That's
53:09where you get all your water. So we we
53:12wanted to look at Jedha itself. Now to
53:14go to Jedha you need to there's Jedha
53:16there. You see it's on the Red Sea.
53:18Mecca is in land. You have Yafre which
53:21is the archaic name for what is today
53:23Medina. And Yandu is well known. There's
53:25lots of references to Yanbu. We know
53:27about it. But what about Jedha? What
53:29about Jedha? It's on the Red Sea.
53:31Couldn't it have supported the chain?
53:33Well, to understand that, you need to
53:35look at where the channels are. And the
53:36deep channel, in fact, before I put the
53:38red line, do you see the deep channel
53:40that's there? This is taken from space.
53:44That's where the ships today go because
53:46they're very big ships and they keep on
53:48getting finding get blocked in the in uh
53:50in the Sewish Canal. But before they get
53:52blocked in the Sewish Canal, they go up
53:54that channel. They didn't have big ships
53:56back then. They had small ships.
54:01They were pushed by wind and they went
54:03on these channels down here, these
54:05golden channels. Notice where those
54:07golden channels are. They're all on the
54:08west, right? Not one of them's on the
54:11east. They're all on the African coast.
54:15That's where the smaller ships went.
54:17Unlike the East Arabian shore when which
54:19were aid and with no fresh water and
54:22thus few people, the West African uh
54:25shore had plenty of fresh water and
54:27larger populations. What's more, the
54:29West Coast had easily accessible ports.
54:32We even know their names. Here they are.
54:34I'll show you to you. All the ports are
54:36well documented. All of them are
54:37historical. Let's start with the f five
54:40coastal cities. Five coastal ports.
54:42Assab, look at the date that it has
54:44historical background to all the way
54:45back to 246 BC. Agelis 79 AD. Those two
54:50are in what is today.
54:52Suaken is in the Sudan 170 AD. Bedanese
54:56and Safaga are both in what is today
54:59Egypt. Notice five different cities.
55:02Their dates are all predate Islam. Look
55:04at the dates that are there. This is
55:05what Muslims don't want you to see.
55:07That's why I'm putting dates on
55:08everything so you can also all see just
55:10how old they are. And what's interesting
55:13all five are exactly the same way
55:17distance. So it's one day sea drive uh
55:20one day uh distance by sea. So you can
55:24pull into port every day, resupply, and
55:26make sure that you don't get attacked in
55:28the night by pirates. That's why they're
55:31much safer. All on the western coast on
55:34the Red Sea. Well, what about the
55:36eastern coast? What about Yanbu? Well,
55:38it's well known. We do have
55:39documentation. But the question we want
55:41to ask is about Jedha because Jedha is
55:44the port for Mecca today. Was Jedha in
55:47existence? Could they have pulled into
55:48Jedha and that would have been supplied
55:50in Mecca? could then have given support
55:52from Mecca. We went to Dr. Gerald
55:54Haunting who is the world's authority on
55:56Jedha and we asked him this question and
55:58he said no there is no reference to
56:01Jedha prior to the 8th century AD.
56:03Notice the date 8th century AD. That
56:06means Jedha didn't even exist for for
56:08another hundred years after Muhammad. If
56:10Muhammad existed
56:12suggesting that Jedha was created
56:14because Mecca was chosen finally. When
56:17was Mecca chosen? We're going to get to
56:18that. So, let's get rid of Jedha and
56:21Mecca. Bye-bye. All right.
56:25Without Mecca, what then happens to 7th
56:27century Islam? Back to your point.
56:30Bingo. You just destroy Islam in one
56:33fell swoop.
56:35What about the lesserk known towns? Now,
56:37if Mecca was not existed, well, maybe
56:39nothing was known there. Maybe this was
56:41just a blank area. And there is some
56:43truth to that because the Romans talked
56:46about the Arabian Peninsula and they
56:49gave three different names for the
56:50Arabian Peninsula. They called Arabia
56:53Petraa in the north. They called Arabia
56:56Deserta in the middle and they called
56:58Arabia Felix. Arabia Petraa because of
57:01Petra, the city of Petra. That's Jordan.
57:04That's what we know as Jordan today.
57:06Arabia deserta. It was a desert. That's
57:08why they called it that because there
57:09was just nothing there. It was open arid
57:13space. And then Arabia Arabia Felix down
57:16in the south where Yemen and Oman are
57:18today. It was happy Arabia. That's what
57:20it means because it was very happy. And
57:23why? Because there was water down there
57:26and there was water up north but not in
57:28the middle. So when you look at these
57:30lesser known cities you the question
57:32could see well maybe nothing was known
57:34because it was Arabia deserta. If it's
57:37Arabia deserta no one would ever went
57:39there. Therefore, there is no historical
57:41reference to there. Is that the case?
57:43Well, see where Mecca is now.
57:46Let's look at Najan, which is just south
57:48of it. Strao in geographica talks about
57:50it. Plenty the elder from 23 AD, he
57:54talks about it. Patonomy in his
57:56geographies references to it in the 2
57:58century. Aritus the in his book on
58:01martyrdom refers to it in the sixth
58:03century. What about Sana and Ty and
58:05Ythreb and Kaibar? These are all the
58:08towns that are up on the western
58:09plateau. These are all oasises. These
58:12places like Ythre only had 200 people
58:14living in them.
58:16Very insignificant, I would suggest,
58:18right? 200 people. Yet pe the Greeks
58:21talk about them. They're referred to all
58:23the way back to the sixth century. So we
58:25have lots of references to these little
58:27oasises. If these little oasises that
58:30only hold 200 people are referred to,
58:33why isn't Mecca, which is the oldest
58:36city in the history of mankind, the
58:38center of history, where Adam and Eve
58:41lived, Abraham lived, where all the
58:44trade went north, souththeast, and west,
58:45and of course where Muhammad was born
58:48and grew up. Mamra Clint's history
58:51refers to it. He talks about it in his
58:53book that he came out in 2011.
58:55Petra Jakowski has written an entire
58:57history of Petra and it which just came
59:00out in uh the earlier this century and
59:02Mak Muhammad Marakam also wrote a book
59:05on that. So these these all these other
59:08places that are in red all are well
59:10known but not one reference to Mecca.
59:14Why are all these insignificant towns
59:16referred to but not Mecca? Well, that if
59:20that's the case, what about the
59:22surrounding empires?
59:24Maybe someone who lived in that area
59:26knew about this place, right? Let's go
59:28and ask that question. So, was Mecca
59:30known? If Mecca was the oldest city in
59:32the history of mankind, then someone
59:35somewhere in the area surrounding it
59:37should have heard of it, right? You
59:39would think so. So, there's Mecca. Put
59:41it on the map. Again, by the way, the
59:42maps I'm showing you are modern maps so
59:45that you can understand where we're
59:46talking about from from your modern
59:48geography. I'm purposely putting Google
59:50maps there so that you can see where
59:52we're talking about today.
59:54What about the empires which were far
59:56away? Well, we have the Assyrians. Uh we
59:59have Shanza III. We have Sargon II. We
1:00:03have Sinakrib. In fact, Dr. Patricia
1:00:05Kuron has looked at all of the writings,
1:00:07could not find any reference to Mecca.
1:00:09She went to the Babylonians, to
1:00:11Nabonitus, uh who is living in 539 BC.
1:00:15No reference to Mecca. She went to the
1:00:17Romans. Uh she went to people like
1:00:19Aminas Marcelenius and Proopius of
1:00:22Cesaria uh in his history of the wars.
1:00:24She went to Straul Plenty the Elder and
1:00:26also Patamy no reference to Mecca. She
1:00:29went to the Persian Empire and
1:00:30especially around the the the city of Ho
1:00:33which is today which is today Kufa
1:00:35couldn't find any reference to uh any
1:00:38place called Mecca. So then she decided
1:00:40to go to the empires that are much
1:00:42closer the other empires that are
1:00:45directly around Mecca. Maybe they would
1:00:46have heard of this place. She went to
1:00:48the Nabotans first, couldn't find any
1:00:50reference to Mecca. She went to Sabah in
1:00:53the south, no reference. She went to
1:00:54Himyar, they couldn't find any. She
1:00:56couldn't find any. She went to the Azi
1:00:58kingdoms, couldn't find any reference.
1:00:59She went to Kinda, even where Riyad is
1:01:02today, known as Du Kahilum. No reference
1:01:05to Mecca. She went to the Kedanites and
1:01:08to places like Taima and Duma and Dan,
1:01:10couldn't find any reference to Mecca.
1:01:12She even went to the Nubians and the
1:01:13Axomites and the Abbiscinians. Not one
1:01:16reference to Mecca. Notice that
1:01:19completely surrounds Mecca. Right? Look
1:01:21how close they are to Mecca.
1:01:24Not one of these kingdoms had heard of
1:01:27Mecca. So what have the Muslims
1:01:29responded to this? Well, this is their
1:01:31rebuttal.
1:01:33Well, you have no place. You have no
1:01:34references to Nazareth. Bingo. You've
1:01:37got the same problem. Jesus was born in
1:01:39Nazareth. There's no reference to
1:01:40Nazareth. So therefore, if there's no
1:01:42reference to Nazareth, you've got the
1:01:44same problem. We don't need a reference
1:01:46for Mecca. That's the rebuttal.
1:01:54In order to answer that, you need to ask
1:01:55about equivalence like with like.
1:01:59There's Nazareth on the map. Nazareth
1:02:01with only a small town with only 450
1:02:03people at the time of Jesus. It had no
1:02:06large buildings or anything of
1:02:08significance. It became uninhabited in
1:02:10the first century. Mecca is the oldest
1:02:13and greatest city in the history
1:02:14according to the standard Islamic
1:02:16narrative. Adam and Eve, Abraham, up to
1:02:18300 prophets lived there and buried
1:02:19there and it was the center of trade.
1:02:22Jerusalem is a probably a better city to
1:02:24compare Mecca with as it is to
1:02:26Christianity what Mecca is to Islam. All
1:02:28right, that's why I use Jerusalem
1:02:29answering your question.
1:02:31Jerusalem has Egyptian references going
1:02:33back to the 19th century BC. It is not
1:02:37only one of the oldest cities in the
1:02:38world but one of the most important and
1:02:40probably the one of the most best
1:02:41documented unlike Mecca. However, in
1:02:452009, Nazareth has now been discovered.
1:02:48It has been discovered.
1:02:51In 2009, Israeli archaeologist Yarda
1:02:53Alexander excavated archaeological
1:02:56remains in Nazareth that date to the
1:02:58time of the of Jesus in the early Roman
1:03:00period. His his told reporters the
1:03:03discovery is of the utmost importance
1:03:05since it reveals for the very first time
1:03:07a house from the Jewish village of
1:03:09Nazareth. Other sources state that
1:03:11during Jesus' time Nazareth had a
1:03:13population of 400 and one public bath
1:03:15which was important for the civic and
1:03:17religious purposes as a mikvah. This
1:03:20proves that there has been there has
1:03:22been newly discovered artifacts which
1:03:24support the history of Nazareth 2,000
1:03:26years ago during the time of Jesus. And
1:03:29all we're asking Muslims is to find
1:03:31reference to Mecca, a much bigger city,
1:03:35a much more important city than na
1:03:36Nazareth. If we can find now for
1:03:39Nazareth, why can't they find for Mecca?
1:03:42We're still waiting. What about the
1:03:44documentary problem?
1:03:47What was the earliest literary reference
1:03:49supporting Mecca's existence? Well, Dr.
1:03:51Patricia Kunov in her book in 1987,
1:03:53Meccan Trade went and tried to bring
1:03:55this balance. She wanted to find out
1:03:57when where was the first reference to
1:03:59this city in any documents and she
1:04:02scoured all the documents that were
1:04:04there.
1:04:05She knew 15 languages. So she went
1:04:07looking in all those languages for any
1:04:09references to Mecca and she finally
1:04:12found it
1:04:14in the continu
1:04:16of Sudthodiius Bizantia Araba written in
1:04:19741. Look at the date
1:04:22741. When did Muhammad die? 632.
1:04:27When did he was born there? 570.
1:04:30This is over 100 years after Muhammad
1:04:32was even there.
1:04:34But notice where the apocalypse of
1:04:37Sudthodiius continu Bizantia Arabic
1:04:40placed this Mecca. This is the first
1:04:42reference we can find anywhere in the
1:04:44world to Mecca. 741. But take a look at
1:04:47where it places it. She didn't read far
1:04:50enough. She didn't read the second half
1:04:51of that inscription.
1:04:53which is involved there
1:04:56all the way far to Mecca as they
1:04:58consider it the home of Abraham which
1:05:01lies in the desert between of the Caldes
1:05:03magicians and Kata the city of Meb and
1:05:06Mesopotamia there's of the Caldes
1:05:08there's there's Adessa and there's Kata
1:05:10right down there remember that this is
1:05:12in the 8th century that this was written
1:05:13741 J Taylor had not yet discovered the
1:05:18the city uh the the city of so people
1:05:21thought was up here in Adessa
1:05:23up until the time that and a time that
1:05:26uh the 19th century in the 19th century
1:05:28finally was discovered as coming from
1:05:31Iraq. But J Taylor hadn't discovered
1:05:33that yet. So the people then assumed it
1:05:35was near Adessa. There's Adessa right up
1:05:37there just south between Adessa and
1:05:39Haron. There's the city of Harun right
1:05:41there, the town of Abraham's brother.
1:05:44So proving that even back then up until
1:05:47the 19th century, everybody thought that
1:05:49Mecca was up in Turkey.
1:05:52Southern Turkey completely off
1:05:57conclusion. The original Mecca was
1:05:59located in southern Turkey in that's the
1:06:02of the 8th century south of Adessa.
1:06:04It is much too far north once again. But
1:06:06how interestingly directly above the
1:06:09present and second Mecca that we know
1:06:11today.
1:06:14So the historical problems.
1:06:16Why is there no history in Mecca?
1:06:21You want an answer? I'm going to give it
1:06:23to you. And it's just one word. But to
1:06:26do that, let's just look at some
1:06:27pictures. See those pictures of Mecca?
1:06:28These are the oldest pictures we can
1:06:30find.
1:06:32They are all bleak, are they not? Rather
1:06:34arid.
1:06:37Soil studies inform us that the soil
1:06:39there has never been able to support
1:06:40vegetation for over 6,000 years. There's
1:06:43not been any soil that can support
1:06:45vegetation. That's not just in the last
1:06:481400 years, over 6,000 years.
1:06:50Why is that important? Here's why. Take
1:06:54a look at these pictures. What do you
1:06:56notice? These are all pictures of Mecca,
1:06:59all from the oldest that we can find.
1:07:02One of them is an artist depiction, but
1:07:04nonetheless, you see the same thing in
1:07:05every picture.
1:07:07There's no vegetation. Is that true? Can
1:07:09you see trees? Can you see clay, lom? Do
1:07:12you see streams? Do you see olive trees
1:07:15anywhere?
1:07:16And why is that significant?
1:07:19Let's see. by looking at some maps. And
1:07:21this is what I did back in 2019. Back in
1:07:242019, I took these four maps with me and
1:07:26I went down to speaker corner. Hatun and
1:07:28I were up on the ladder and I held these
1:07:30maps up and I wanted the crowd to see. I
1:07:32said, "Muslims, take a look at these
1:07:33four maps. What do you notice? Look
1:07:35where Medina and Mecca are." And what do
1:07:37you notice about of the surrounding
1:07:38area? Well, it's pretty brown, isn't it?
1:07:41What you can observe very clearly is
1:07:43that the central part with Medina and
1:07:45Mecca is all a desert.
1:07:48If it's a desert, where there's a
1:07:50desert, there's no water. Where there's
1:07:52no water, there's no food. Where there's
1:07:53no food, there's no people. Where
1:07:55there's no people, there's no towns.
1:07:56Where there's no towns, there's no
1:07:58cities. Where there's no cities, there's
1:07:59no civilization. Where there's no
1:08:01civilization, there is no history. How
1:08:03long did it take me to say that?
1:08:06All I had to do is say that one time
1:08:08from the latter. Anytime they came up to
1:08:10discuss about Mecca, I said, "Hold on a
1:08:12minute. There's no water. No water. No
1:08:13food. No food. No people. No people. No
1:08:15towns. No towns. No city. No cities.
1:08:16history, you've got to have water.
1:08:21In order for anybody to exist, you got
1:08:22to have water. Am I correct? Absolutely.
1:08:26And if there's no water, like just like
1:08:29Mars, there's no point in ever going
1:08:31there.

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of JAY SMITH | The Biggest Questions About Mecca’s Origins Nobody Can Ignore. by The Jay Smith Show, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 12,547 words across 1,824 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.