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Jarrett Adams Talks Redeeming Justice, Faith, Innocence Project & More — Transcript

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0:00know when
0:01surely we will be found guilty and she's
0:04like
0:05it's like it's like a ghost was on her
0:07face she's like no
0:09don't you understand
0:10and that's when for the first time
0:13as a 17 year
0:14old that's for the first time
0:17i believe my mother
0:19didn't look at me as a son
0:21who needed to be protected
0:24she looked at me as
0:26the black man
0:28that society fails to protect
0:34[Music]
0:49what's going on family it's your brother
0:50lawrence here with another episode of
0:52watch god
0:54work
0:54in every episode we get the distinct
0:56pleasure and honor to speak to a brother
0:57and sister that's doing exceptional work
1:00in every field of human endeavor and
1:01they share their god story the ways in
1:03which god has been at work in their life
1:04and the ways in which god has been at
1:06work in and through their work and today
1:09it is no different i have my brother our
1:11brother jared adams what's going on king
1:14hey hey how you doing thank you for
1:15having me man i appreciate this man i'm
1:18grateful for you being here um and i
1:20always love the prelude man the
1:21conversations that lead up to this
1:23conversation and already
1:25um you know i already feel goosebumps
1:27and you know when i learned about your
1:29story that's how i felt
1:32um
1:32i think that for many people at a high
1:35level
1:36they get introduced uh
1:38to the issues of injustice at
1:41quote-unquote moments in history that i
1:43think that we're living we're living in
1:44now
1:46through hollywood and through stories
1:48that they hear but there are no moments
1:50when i think in the quiet time that you
1:52get a story you read something that
1:54there's no other noise
1:56and then you're able to take yourself
1:59into those moments
2:01and that was the moment that i had when
2:02i learned about your story
2:05and it was it was not only the injustice
2:08in 1998 what you navigated as a brother
2:11that i see that has my skin that has a
2:14story that has my disposition from the
2:16south side of chicago with his friend
2:18that many of us walk with friends
2:20but then it was also the story and also
2:23the mission that you've given your life
2:25around criminal justice
2:27around redemption in a system around
2:31laugh after giving people what does it
2:33look like for their lives afterwards and
2:35being a part of not just in where you
2:36live not just in the court where you
2:38have actually argued in one but all
2:40around the country
2:42you have looked to be of service to
2:44brothers and sisters and specifically
2:46brothers who were in a tangle and who
2:49struggled and who had to who had to meet
2:51the system in ways that you have and so
2:53bro um i'm thankful for this
2:56conversation i'm also thankful because
2:58there's another part of the story as we
2:59talked about which is yeah those letters
3:03yeah um the faith journey
3:06uh that i think people don't understand
3:08that sustain you and so clearly i can't
3:11do it any better than you can do and i
3:12always start well start who is
3:15jared adams
3:17yeah well look man i'm i feel right at
3:20home just off the intro you know um but
3:22i i i i'm you know i'm jared adams i'm
3:26south side of chicago born and raised
3:28you know a kid you know whose family
3:31origins came from mississippi and
3:33migrated to chicago
3:35all in the spirit of you know i want to
3:38give my child a better opportunity you
3:41know
3:42at the fabric that is supposed to be
3:44what makes you an american right i want
3:46to um you know give my child an
3:48opportunity to gray up grow up without
3:50you know being subject to to to racism
3:53and prejudice and i think that
3:55um the the belief uh was if you get out
3:58of the south then you know there are no
4:00more problems in terms of prejudice and
4:02race and that's you know as we know just
4:04simply not the case right
4:07so
4:07um you know i i was a you know just a
4:10south side kid you know i didn't i
4:11didn't get into
4:13like gangs and selling drugs and
4:15shooting and all that and it wasn't
4:17because it wasn't around me it was just
4:19that
4:20you know i was the youngest out of
4:22uh my mother had eight siblings and five
4:26of them were girls so i had a bunch of
4:28older cousins
4:30and
4:31you know my had a brother so i mean i
4:33got a bird's eye view to see you know
4:35what i mean the streets in action and
4:36how you know no matter how big and bad
4:39you think you are
4:40you don't walk away a winner no matter
4:43what so i just you know i just wanted a
4:45different type of of of you know
4:48excitement in my life and so what i
4:49would do is me and my friends would you
4:52know we would stay out the way because
4:53the people who didn't get in trouble you
4:54could pretty much go wherever you want
4:56do whatever you want you know what i
4:57mean
4:59take off don't worry about having to
5:01come back so we would stay out the way
5:03pretty much right and so
5:04i you know me and my friends i was just
5:07graduating high school
5:09graduated high school and it was the
5:11summer between graduating high school
5:14and the fall semester that fall i was
5:17actually gonna attend junior college as
5:19a way to circumvent a lot of the cost
5:21and then make my way up you know to a
5:24bachelor's degree so i had i had always
5:26done well in school and i don't want
5:27people as i go on in my story tell you
5:29know people to think that oh okay he
5:32went to the joint and they gave him a
5:33smart peel and he swallowed it and all
5:35of a sudden became a lawyer no brother
5:37no our babies that they snatching off
5:39the street already possess this town you
5:41understand what i'm saying and i was one
5:43of them and so
5:45we go up to this party in the state of
5:47wisconsin it's me and two of my friends
5:49we're all black so
5:51it was one of my friends who had
5:52graduated the year before me so he's
5:54like man this party we it's in wisconsin
5:57so i'm like man my mother-in-law let me
5:59go to no party you know wisconsin and
6:01they're like man it's just right across
6:03the state so i'm like okay
6:05here's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna tell
6:07them i'm staying over your house and
6:09y'all tell y'all people you staying on
6:12my house right so it was like
6:15you know what i mean like we all got
6:16together that night we drove to the
6:19party in west coast so it's a party like
6:21it was a party on this campus um they
6:24through what's called like a pre-party
6:26and the pre-party was before so i'm not
6:28telling you anything you you know
6:30lawrence here's the funny thing right
6:32this thing robbed a lot out of me it
6:34robbed my experience of college so when
6:36i be talking to certain people who know
6:38all about college they'd be looking at
6:40me like bro you ain't got to tell we
6:41know we'll go down in college we weren't
6:43there but that's also a reminder to me
6:45of just how much that was taken you know
6:48um so we're at this party look there's
6:51drinking
6:52there's there's casual sex there's
6:54whatever you want to name at this party
6:56and we were no different than any other
6:57kids there other than that we were black
7:00okay we were literally you know the only
7:04three
7:05black men we saw maybe one or two
7:07crossing through the party and stuff
7:09like that that night but we were the
7:11only ones that stood out so this was a a
7:14consensual encounter
7:16off of an invitation by this young lady
7:19that
7:20didn't even evolve into everything that
7:22was alleged because her roommate walked
7:24into the room and they started arguing
7:26about what was going on
7:28so at the end of this this embarrassing
7:31because that's what it was this was
7:32embarrassing like it wasn't like i said
7:35i i kept i kept harping on the wrong
7:38thing throughout this process
7:40because i just wanted my mother and them
7:41to know y'all didn't raise me like that
7:44right
7:45but meanwhile while i'm focusing on this
7:47false narrative that was created
7:49they were focusing on putting together a
7:52panel of 12 jurors that didn't look like
7:54us so they can
7:55throw us away for the rest of our life
7:58so
7:58so now now i'm
8:01me and my mother
8:03it's just us like we don't
8:06have
8:07resources we don't have experiences with
8:09this like this is this is like i knew
8:12all of the lyrics to tupac
8:14but i didn't know one constitutional
8:16right you know at all when they asked me
8:19to want to talk
8:20well of course i wanted to talk because
8:22being raised by that family from down
8:24south that's the one thing they tell you
8:25to do you respect the authority so when
8:27they asked me that i want to talk
8:28absolutely i wanted to talk absolutely i
8:30wanted to tell my version of events and
8:32my version of events was supported by
8:35students and everybody else who was
8:36there at this party
8:38but that's not how things work and i i i
8:41thought that my experience with you know
8:44law and order growing up as a kid was
8:47how i was going to be treated in this
8:49criminal justice system and i wasn't
8:52so
8:53i found myself
8:56falsely accused of a rape
8:59where it was just the accusation
9:01and brother i'm like
9:03well we didn't do it so what else do i
9:05what like how what else do i get i'm i'm
9:08all of these things are swirling in my
9:10mind you know as i'm going through this
9:12and i don't know i don't know how to put
9:14together a defense i don't we don't have
9:16the money to afford an attorney so we we
9:19were appointed an attorney and the
9:21attorney was not licensed for very long
9:25and he was off of a panel list
9:27and he told us that because the evidence
9:30because the case lacked any credible
9:32evidence he was going to go with a no
9:34defense theory um so
9:37me and my mother are are listening to
9:40this and i'm gonna tell you i'm i'm
9:42gonna tell you right look
9:45at the time that this was going on
9:47my gut was telling me that this wasn't
9:50the right thing to do
9:52but
9:53my mother
9:55and i'm looking
9:56at you know
9:58you know just just the pain just the
10:00pain and i just wanted it to stop man if
10:03this was the best defense
10:06if this was what we were supposed to you
10:07know do if this was what would vindicate
10:09this is what would bring the light to
10:11the case
10:12then let's do it because i just want to
10:14stop this woman from coming up here man
10:16because you know why no matter what the
10:18accusation was
10:20no matter that she knew it wasn't true
10:22she knew who she raised and it was me
10:24who decided to sneak up there to that
10:26party and i see
10:28right
10:29i knew
10:30she wouldn't let me go
10:32and i knew why she wouldn't let me go
10:35because there was one name growing up in
10:37our house that we we we knew as if we
10:39grew up with them and that name was
10:40emmett teal
10:42right chicago
10:44so
10:45so it was like
10:47at a certain point in time
10:50my mother was in pieces
10:52and i couldn't understand why like i
10:55couldn't you know i kept saying mom look
10:57don't you understand that this is a
10:58shifting narrative you know all of these
11:01the different consistencies and all when
11:04surely we won't be found guilty and
11:07she's like it's like it's like a ghost
11:09was on her face she's like no
11:12don't you understand and that's when for
11:14the first time
11:16as a 17 year old
11:19that's for the first time
11:20i believe my mother
11:22didn't look at me as a son
11:25who needed to be protected
11:27she looked at me as
11:30the black man
11:32that society fails to protect oh
11:36and in that
11:38we had a conversation
11:40and she says listen you know
11:43when emmettio happened
11:45my father who was my grandfather her
11:48father
11:49was was
11:51bringing his kids you know up from the
11:54south
11:55you know until he got the last one up
11:58and
12:00that happened around the time where
12:02he would let the boys go back and visit
12:05with their cousins and friends
12:08and so she said he pulled the plug on
12:11all of it
12:13and they never really knew and
12:15understood because my mother was a kid
12:16herself as this was going on and stuff
12:19like that but when i saw
12:21the hollowness in her eyes
12:24man look i i
12:26i knew i knew i knew this wasn't going
12:28to end well
12:30i still had hope but i knew it wasn't
12:32going to end well and
12:34found guilty
12:36literally nothing you know no evidence
12:39other than yeah this happened they did
12:40this they did this and that was all it
12:42took and i got 20 i initially got
12:44sentenced to serve 20 years in prison
12:46but but look i i just i just
12:49i could not i told you they're giving me
12:52the time
12:53me being found guilty me spinning and
12:56doing that time that was still not the
12:58worst thing
12:59of the experience the worst thing of the
13:02experience was for my mother to blame
13:04herself for not being able to afford an
13:07attorney and for not being able to save
13:10me
13:11and since when has the black woman not
13:13done everything
13:14in the united states and in this world
13:16in general when you think about it since
13:18when
13:19both the
13:21the seeds they give birth to
13:24and after those seeds are grown the ones
13:26that they love and seek out for marriage
13:29and unity
13:30they're all under attack
13:32they're all under attack so when i saw
13:35her and i saw how helpless she was man
13:37it just made me i just i said you know
13:40what
13:42i don't know the law
13:44but i'm so enough gonna try
13:46because if that woman can can put up
13:49faith and keep up faith in me and
13:50believe in me
13:52despite the horrible accusations
13:55man i'm gonna fight for this woman bro
13:57and i didn't
13:58i wanna i wanna jump in here because
14:00this is so
14:02you you you set the scene you're setting
14:05this up
14:06so you're just telling your story you're
14:08just telling but for me i can imagine
14:10somebody right now who's listening and
14:11hearing this
14:13that feeling of hopelessness and
14:15helplessness and then for you to say it
14:18the fact that you're saying that you it
14:20wasn't beyond the fact that i am sitting
14:22here looking at 20 right
14:25at 17 years old
14:28even beyond what i would be subjected to
14:30and what i have to go through separated
14:31from society in this way
14:33the grief that you have about your
14:36mother blaming herself and not being
14:38able to resolve that to say the goal was
14:41to get the play was she did everything
14:43she needed to do she got it out the mud
14:46so i can come here to make sure and take
14:48care of her
14:49and so from that standpoint you're now
14:51at this position now where you're like
14:52yo
14:54i see what's going on
14:56i'm recognizing the pain that she's
14:57going in
14:59i've been gifted with this intellect
15:00i've been gifted with this stuff i'ma
15:02figure this thing out because i can't
15:04let her suffer any longer right from
15:07this because she didn't necessarily she
15:09didn't cause this
15:10to
15:15so you're now at this this moment where
15:17you're like yo
15:21god
15:23no i just need to figure this thing out
15:24there's also the sense of knowing even
15:26before you even went and also this sense
15:28of no you talk about this moment of like
15:29i felt like there was this ghost like
15:32on her face
15:34be even be even before we kind of push
15:36forward in terms of what this looks like
15:38afterwards
15:39is there this place of
15:41what did you have a sense with with the
15:43the element of faith and like spirit
15:47dynamic beyond was that that was kind of
15:49the sensitivity you had beforehand when
15:51you're like you know what i don't think
15:52i should go here you know what
15:53something's different about my what was
15:55the dynamic of faith
15:57before leading up to that moment that
15:59kind of was with you to that point
16:02so i i this is this is what was with me
16:05so
16:06you know we you know my mother and i you
16:09know our relationship was a great
16:11relationship because she was the
16:12youngest of eight kids and i was the
16:15youngest kid you know so we had a good
16:16relationship and we spent a lot of time
16:18together and so
16:20and she really set me up for this as a
16:23kid because
16:25when most kids might have gotten
16:26spankings my punishment was to read
16:28books and do a book report
16:31you know what i'm saying back then bro i
16:33hated it you know what i'm saying like i
16:35literally hated it right but but i think
16:37that she set me up in such a way you
16:39know to be able to where i am right now
16:41and so so
16:43my faith right
16:45it was more like
16:47you know she ain't tell me why
16:49but they gotta be a reason you know why
16:52i'm feeling like i shouldn't be taking
16:54this trip you know and and going up here
16:57you know to wisconsin right and it's
16:59what i realized as a kid was this
17:02you know we we live in a cocoon
17:05right we're we are
17:07you know
17:08you know relegated to to the south side
17:10and west sides of our our whatever it is
17:12in your city
17:14just like there's a south side on the
17:15west side of chicago there's a side or
17:18two like those in every city whether
17:20that be the east side of detroit or
17:21whatever you want to name right there's
17:23a side like that so
17:26as a kid
17:27it's like going to a different country
17:30when you just visit downtown in your own
17:32city
17:33because you don't go there black kids
17:35they don't get a chance to get out and
17:36go and stuff like that so i knew a lot
17:38of her reservation was just
17:41you know it wasn't
17:43clearly articulated to
17:45now let me tell you something you think
17:47if you're doing the right thing when
17:48nothing happened but no this is like our
17:50history yeah you don't have to do
17:52anything wrong so so
17:54i've always even grown up my brother and
17:57i you know we we always you know just
17:59just hyper vigilant and really what it
18:01is is this to answer that question
18:04it ain't about being hyper vigilant it
18:05ain't about being this it ain't about
18:08nothing but ptsd and i'm not talking
18:11about post i'm talking about persistent
18:13traumatic stress
18:15okay because our our folks
18:18are
18:19raising us in a way
18:22that is a direct result
18:24of the terror and horrors they saw
18:27of people innocently doing nothing wrong
18:30and it touches a lot of chords we could
18:33think about this
18:34avid renee the 13th it did a great job
18:37explaining to you right that
18:41slave catchers morphed into
18:44the police departments
18:46and so
18:47so my mom knew what it was but i didn't
18:50know
18:51you know what i mean i didn't i had a
18:53false sense of you know looking at law
18:55and order just thinking about it right
18:56now i never saw an episode in the 90s of
18:59a wrongfully convicted black dude get
19:00his conviction overturned and then they
19:02do do
19:03do do you ain't see that
19:05oh
19:07they made it seem like there was no
19:08problem and the criminal justice system
19:10operated as it was supposed to but
19:13that's not the case
19:15it's simply not and i i had we were
19:18raised in the church lilly dale
19:21south side of chicago raised in the
19:23church baptized i like being baptized as
19:26a kid so much i tried to do it twice
19:28right
19:29you know that's the type of you know
19:31what i mean like we we lived in the
19:32church on sunday
19:34you can expect to to be out your bed
19:37about six out of the house about seven
19:40and you probably ain't gonna be back to
19:42about six because you stand for all
19:44activities you eating there like this
19:46was a this was an institution where
19:48everybody knew
19:49everybody knew everybody name and
19:51everybody kid that's so-and-so that's
19:53just someone so kid that's brother
19:55so-and-so that's deacon that's you know
19:57what that's the type of atmosphere it
19:59was so our faith
20:01was never in question
20:03which was why it scared me so much to
20:06see how scared she was
20:13this
20:15the moments right i i think that you
20:17talk about those moments of being able
20:19to see something that looked different
20:21right this woman of faith who has held
20:24down the fort who i've seen
20:26you know to some degree right out of
20:28this ptsd almost stoically navigate the
20:31realities of all we have to navigate
20:33when i saw her shook it shook me up
20:36and it shook you the movement and so i
20:38think it now puts us in the situation
20:40now where you're like okay this is
20:42beyond this and so this conviction
20:44happens
20:46and you're like i need to figure this
20:47thing out but you still are dealing with
20:49the the harsh realities of of being
20:52imprisoned
20:53right
20:55for 10 years right but you know but not
20:57but you don't know that right you don't
20:58know all of these things you don't know
21:00when things are going to shift you don't
21:01know the innocent part you don't know
21:02these things and so
21:04as you're navigating these things
21:06there's
21:06there's a picture of your touch points
21:08with your mom and your aunts
21:10like so could you talk about just the
21:13just what you were going through while
21:16you were there and then at the same time
21:19what you were getting
21:21and what was the conversation with god
21:23as you were getting this encouragement
21:25and these prayers and touch points from
21:26your mama
21:29so i i um
21:31you know the the
21:32there was the sentencing hearing
21:34you know and like i said they they
21:36initially sentenced me to serve 20 years
21:38in prison but i i stood up they give you
21:40an opportunity to say what you want to
21:42say and i stood up and i was just like
21:43look
21:44i'm gonna apologize for being here for
21:47all the families being here but i'm not
21:49gonna apologize for a rape that i didn't
21:51commit and that didn't happen i said
21:54i i want to apologize directly to my
21:56mother and because i just felt look um
21:59this is
22:00this is crazy i never thought that this
22:02would happen like literally while i'm
22:04sitting through the trial i'm thinking
22:06to myself man
22:07i gotta clean my room up man i know
22:09we're supposed to be doing i'm gonna
22:10have to catch up with school it's gonna
22:12be a lot i'm literally not imagining
22:14ever that a case baseless with no
22:16evidence and just an accusation would
22:18get me 28 years in prison but it did so
22:20now
22:22fast forward
22:23i'm on the bus
22:25and i'm on a bus
22:27and
22:28my co-defendant gets dropped off before
22:30me
22:31and i'm wondering why
22:33and it was because i got those
22:35additional eight years it pushed my
22:38security level up to a maximum slash
22:40super maximum level
22:42so i went as i was turning eight i was
22:4518 turning 19 at the time this happened
22:48when i was 17
22:50trials not till 18 and i'm pressing up
22:53against my 19th birthday november
22:55and
22:57i'm
22:58i'm in an institution
23:00you know
23:01and and i make it to
23:03to like really what would be considered
23:06you know one of the worst of the three
23:08worst in the state you know walt pond
23:10green bay and bostonville was what's
23:12kind of those are the worst of the worst
23:13so
23:14i get there and i'm like
23:16you know one of these
23:18man you went somewhere and was like man
23:20what are the black folks around us you
23:22know what i mean like so but in that
23:24sense
23:25i wasn't asking i was asking the
23:27opposite
23:28man why are they so many black folks in
23:30here
23:32i said how is it that
23:36the only thing of color
23:38in the courtroom
23:40for us
23:42was the defendants the family
23:45and the suits in the judge role
23:47so how do i make it to prison and it
23:50ain't nothing but black folks in the
23:52prison
23:52but the officials and the people that we
23:54saw in the state of wisconsin
23:57were mainly white
23:59so i
24:00i
24:03i i i didn't i
24:05you know it was just it was like an
24:06out-of-body experience and then when
24:08when i got there
24:11i stood out because
24:14of how young i was
24:16so people would grab naturally ask like
24:18what you did or what you didn't you know
24:20what you know what you like man you're
24:21pretty young how you get up there
24:23because if you up there in that prison
24:25you definitely got more than 25 years
24:28right
24:29so that's why they look and they're like
24:30man how does baby get you know what i'm
24:32saying what he do right he must kill
24:34somebody or something like that so here
24:36i get sailed up with an old white dude
24:39right
24:40he had been in there
24:42for about 18 years already for you know
24:44serving you know two life sentences
24:47right
24:48so
24:50you know
24:51i'm there and i'm
24:52i'm you gotta learn how to prison and
24:55that's a term you know not many people
24:57are familiar and you shouldn't even be
24:58familiar with it this thing
25:01politics
25:03there are politics within these prisons
25:05so you got to learn how to prison and
25:06it's like that means to stay out the way
25:09pretty much right stay out the way so my
25:12way of staying out the way was
25:15basketball
25:17chess and working out that's what i
25:19would do basketball chess working out
25:21basketball chess working out
25:23but what i realized was for me
25:27it wasn't just staying out the way
25:30it was
25:31shelling off the world
25:33to numb myself from the pain that i was
25:35experiencing of being in
25:39so
25:40now i'm i'm now
25:42i'm routinely
25:44basketball chess working out basketball
25:46chess working out so my game improving
25:49my physique improving my chess game is
25:52bobby fischer like
25:54but my growth my growth is stunning and
25:57my faith my faith had took a back seat
26:01without me even acknowledging it
26:03but but it happened through my
26:06you know you just got to survive this so
26:08what do i do to survive stay out the way
26:09how do i stay out the way one two three
26:12and not one time
26:14did i understand
26:15that in order for any of those three
26:18things to work
26:20the first thing that should have been at
26:21the top was the first thing that i
26:23questioned which was my faith
26:26so
26:27i
26:28you know
26:29i wouldn't be honest if i got up here
26:32and simply because of the platform that
26:34we're on and we got a lot of believers
26:36that are going to be watching this i i
26:38wouldn't i would be doing god's work at
26:39this service to sit up here and tell you
26:41that i believed him all the time and i
26:43knew he was going to do it no that's not
26:45my story i believe
26:47is for you to see that you should never
26:50stop believing that's why i did this to
26:52me
26:53you know
26:54so i i'm in here with this old guy
26:57and for about the next few months
27:01i'm just playing chess working out
27:02basketball
27:04there's a violent incident that took
27:05place in the prison
27:07so some guys
27:09you know get into it some guy you know
27:11lost an eye or something like that so
27:13they locked the entire prison down
27:15so now they lock the prison down and
27:18when they lock the prison down you're
27:19pretty much you're in your cell 24 hours
27:21a day at that point
27:23the only time that you get out is three
27:25hours a week to shower one hour you know
27:28on that split weekday maybe it might be
27:30a monday wednesday friday
27:32this is for them they say is necessary
27:35because
27:37for security purposes they need to make
27:39sure it's an isolated incident as
27:41opposed to a riot that's about to so i
27:43get it right
27:44so i want you to picture this
27:47you're in the city you're in a sale
27:50the size of a pantry closet right
27:54and
27:54there's a toilet there there's a sink
27:56there
27:57there are two bunk beds
28:00and literally you know i can lay in my
28:03bed and my feet can hit the the opposite
28:06end of the wall and my hand can touch
28:09the bars
28:10you you if i stretch out like that
28:13and i'm 5 10. i ain't seven two you know
28:16what i mean so like that's what i'm
28:17talking about how tight we're in so
28:19during this time
28:20everything is done through your trap
28:23right so in walpon
28:25the phone system works that
28:28when it's your phone night the tier
28:29runner will come by give you the phone
28:31and you talk on the phone and you get
28:33the phone back or whatever it is they'll
28:35pass it from sale to sale when it's your
28:36night right so even doing this
28:38investigation they still give you that
28:39and still give you food so i'm on the
28:41phone with my mother one night and my
28:43mother
28:44well i don't know i still don't know how
28:45she was able to do this without the
28:47institution hanging up on everybody but
28:48she clicked in it's like a far away man
28:51it was like my mother my two three aunts
28:54you know what i'm saying like she would
28:55have church with me on this phone right
28:58and she would she would ask questions
29:00and and so when she's asking questions
29:02she's asking these questions about my
29:04case about the appeal about my
29:06co-defendant's case about this about
29:08that and so i'm i'm answering to the
29:10best of my you know you talking about
29:13high school education you know from the
29:14inner city so i'm answering it to the
29:16best of my ability and so
29:18i get off
29:19i get off right
29:21and
29:22my cell mate me and this dude literally
29:25i say about the extent of our
29:27conversation for these these this month
29:29and a half of being in there
29:31was you know hey you know make sure you
29:33close the cell door or i'm not going out
29:35for breakfast close the door or see you
29:38after work or whatever because he had a
29:40job in the law library so now i'm i'm
29:43i'm um
29:44i get off of this phone and i'm i'm just
29:47you know i'm emotional as it is so i
29:48just i'm not gonna lay down and tuck
29:51myself in for a book and just disappear
29:54for the night you know start over new uh
29:56hopefully we come off lockdown the next
29:57day
29:58my cell mate was like man look you mind
30:00if i talk to you and i'm like yeah
30:02what's going on he's like i just you
30:03know i couldn't help but overhear your
30:05conversation because i'm in here with
30:06you this is the first time we really
30:08even had an extended conversation
30:09because he worked during the day when he
30:11came in at five it was like i'm here
30:13and i'm like we sleep we go you know
30:15what i mean like that's the day so he's
30:18like um
30:19he's like look i'm just confused because
30:21you know you
30:23you're saying your case is messed up
30:25there's problems with your case right
30:26and i'm like yeah he was like but man
30:28you literally get out here
30:30i've never seen you in the law library
30:32like you're out here playing ball you're
30:33playing chess you know you you know what
30:35i mean like you work so i'm just i'm
30:37just trying to figure out i'm not just
30:39trying to be in your business but i'm
30:40trying to figure out and i said well
30:41look i got
30:42i got you know my attorney is doing an
30:44appeal and he was like oh um
30:47you talking about that appointed
30:48attorney right and i was like yeah it's
30:50like yeah you know
30:51that this like like how they appointed
30:53you an attorney at your trial right
30:56i was like touched
30:58so
30:59i said well look you know
31:01now i don't really know the law like
31:02that um you know and you know i'm just
31:06trying to you know and he was like well
31:08word is you didn't really know how to
31:10take play chess like that but now i
31:12heard you kicking everybody but a wreck
31:14so i'm like okay
31:16um where do i start so he's like let me
31:18see what's going on and give me your
31:19transcripts and stuff like that
31:21so when i went in my bin to get him out
31:23and giving to him
31:25he's like i can't believe this and i was
31:27like what's going on he's like dude you
31:29lit you didn't open any of this
31:31and i'm like no i had to open it for i
31:33said that while they railroaded me he
31:35was like look young brother i talked he
31:37was like
31:38just give me a sec let me read this let
31:40me read this so he went through
31:42everything this we're still on lockdown
31:44right next couple days he's reading over
31:47everything we're not even really talking
31:48about what he's reading he's just
31:50reading making comments reading we come
31:52off lockdown like the next day we come
31:54off lock down
31:56um
31:57i
31:58returned to what i was doing
32:00he took off work he was just like man i
32:02just want to talk to you he's like look
32:03i you know went over everything
32:05he's like everyone comes up to me to
32:07help them with their work
32:09and some of these guys no good and well
32:11i can't help them can't nobody help them
32:13because they know they did it
32:15you know like you went here for some
32:16bull crap
32:18it ain't not one piece of evidence in
32:20here and for a second reading your
32:21transcripts i thought your name was
32:23black man from chicago because that's
32:25how many times they referred to you guys
32:27as the black man from chicago so he's
32:29pointing out all of these things in my
32:31case
32:32and he says he says who is sean demaine
32:35and i'm like um
32:36[Music]
32:37uh i don't know like what are you
32:39talking about he's like what was this so
32:41he gives me a little like it's like a
32:43little brief police report that says you
32:46know my name is sean domain
32:48i was at the party i saw the black guys
32:51two two of the guys you know went off i
32:54was staying with one of the lighter guys
32:55that's me because he was a white kid he
32:57was explaining us by my complexion and
32:59then i saw all of them later on that
33:00night and they they were gone and so i
33:02you know he was asking me i was like oh
33:04yeah yeah i remember this you know i was
33:05playing video games and stuff like that
33:08and he said man are you listening to
33:09yourself and i'm like what you know he's
33:11like look
33:12these people accused you and your
33:14friends of sneaking up a flight of
33:16stairs raping a white girl and fleeing
33:19out the building like a scene from the
33:211900s don't you understand that this kid
33:24is literally a timeline of events saying
33:26that he was with you guys literally the
33:28whole time
33:30and i said man well i i never really you
33:32know
33:33and i got mad when he told me that i
33:35said well how the heck am i supposed to
33:37know that you understand i'm a kid how
33:39i'm supposed to know that it was like
33:41well look here you got a lot to learn
33:43and the first place you need to go is
33:44not the direct yard it's to the law
33:47library
33:48so
33:50you know look
33:51i would like
33:52to tell you
33:54that i listened to him right away and i
33:56got me a notepad and went to the law
33:58library but if i was doing that i would
33:59be lying and i would be doing a
34:00disservice to my testimony
34:02because this next moment is going to
34:04preach for you and for everybody else
34:06so i didn't listen to him
34:09and i went out that next day i had like
34:1123 points four rebounds and three
34:13assists right
34:16during this time of lockdown you you you
34:19know you could talk or whatever it is
34:21you know you don't really get a chance
34:22to get visits so
34:25it got to a point where after i learned
34:27the information in the in the case that
34:29he pointed out to me
34:31i started to write letters but i also
34:34started to become
34:35dejected and say to myself
34:39if this man has been incarcerated for 18
34:41years
34:42can go on my case
34:44and find something
34:46that's glaringly indicative of my
34:47innocence
34:49then are you telling me that the court
34:50system allowed this and they knew this
34:52all alone
34:53and that's me
34:55became scary it became real and i was no
34:58longer that south side boy on this porch
35:00eating an icy cup
35:02thinking that his world was perfectly
35:04fine
35:06and so
35:07over the next month
35:10i stopped
35:11responding to letters
35:13i stopped calling
35:15you know my my mom
35:17um
35:18and
35:25man
35:30i'm sorry don't worry don't worry come
35:31on
35:33so so over so
35:35so now
35:36so now
35:38um
35:38[Music]
35:40you know i just i just became
35:43yeah i came i became
35:45you know i became dejected i stopped
35:47responding to letters um
35:50and
35:52i got it i got a guard came to my door
35:55one night and this had to be like this
35:56probably had to be going on like three
35:58four weeks but i just stopped responding
36:00to the letters man i'm getting letters
36:02from for my friends they sending me
36:04pictures you know they they didn't have
36:06trunk parties
36:07you know they going
36:09to school
36:10you know and i'm sitting in here with a
36:12mandatory release of of february of
36:152007.
36:17you understand what i'm saying and this
36:19is now you know this is you know
36:20actually it was
36:21it was 20 20 20 like 2021 or something
36:25like that was my mandatory release um i
36:27was eligible for parole in 2007 and this
36:30was 1999 now right
36:33so
36:34i i just stopped like i just didn't want
36:36to i didn't
36:39it became too difficult to have these
36:40conversations continuously about man we
36:44just gotta hold our hope or man we just
36:46gotta always any moment we should hear
36:48this and in any moment it just became
36:50too much and i knew i couldn't
36:52i knew i couldn't take away the pain you
36:54know from my mother and stuff like that
36:56so it just i just wanted to just you
36:58know i'm saying just like not deal with
37:00it and so
37:01a guard comes to my cell
37:03he's like man we need you to go out here
37:05come out here and go to this visiting
37:06room and i'm like what for he's like
37:08your mother's up here and and she keep
37:11calling the warden's office so i'm like
37:13my mother literally
37:15would not stop calling my mother and my
37:17aunties would call the warden's office
37:19you know to get them so i go on this
37:21visit and i haven't seen my mother now
37:23this is this have been like you know you
37:25know this seems like you know as i'm
37:27telling the story it's so hard to tell
37:29every detail that's how people can go
37:30get my book to go check out every detail
37:33but
37:34the thing about prison is this
37:36it doesn't necessarily go slow
37:39it actually goes fast and that's the
37:42scary thing about it because your life
37:44is going like that like the flick of a
37:45calendar and so
37:47i'm i'm you know
37:49i seen my mother now for for
37:51now this was like going on a year for
37:53the first time
37:55and man it looked like she had aged 30
37:58years
37:59you know
38:00um
38:02i i came off of the visiting room
38:06and i i just i'll never forget
38:09i would never forget what it looked like
38:11to see
38:12her face and those wrinkles and creases
38:14of anguish on her forehead and her just
38:17saying you know i'm gonna love you no
38:19matter what
38:20and i believe you no matter what
38:22you know cause i know you no matter what
38:26and i just i just i left off of that
38:28visiting room
38:30and the next day
38:31when i walked to
38:33to to lunch you know i threw my gym
38:36shoes in the garbage can
38:38because i stopped playing basketball
38:39from that very day and i went to the law
38:42library and i started to to learn the
38:44law and over the course of
38:47two to three years
38:49i was able to grasp the law well enough
38:52that i was litigating on behalf of
38:54inmates who were there in winning all
38:56type of census modifications and and and
39:00you know
39:01rule infraction overturning and i
39:03drafted my own habeas petition
39:06and when i drafted that habeas petition
39:08i forwarded it along to the wisconsin
39:10innocence project
39:12they came and they visited me they
39:14agreed to take my case
39:16and they argued my case all the way up
39:18to the seventh circuit court of appeals
39:20where the seventh circuit court of
39:21appeals unanimously overturned my
39:23conviction
39:24for the very thing
39:26that
39:27witness statement
39:30and that we found out through the
39:32litigation
39:33that
39:34they had withheld
39:36a three-page statement from the same
39:39young man and he provided clarity and
39:42context where he said
39:44not only was i there when that girl
39:47invited his two friends up and himself
39:49which was me and my two friends
39:51i was also there in a smoking area
39:54when all of them came back downstairs
39:56after the argument with a roommate so
39:58brother you tell me how many of my
40:00friends
40:01committing the gang rape
40:03right
40:04and fleeing the building
40:07with this kid who we were playing video
40:10games with we didn't know him we just
40:12met him at the party he wasn't our
40:13friend he was a white kid who had told
40:16them
40:17that very day the next day when they
40:19started investigating he had told them
40:21what happened
40:22and so do you think it was a mistake
40:25that that didn't make it into
40:27our possession
40:29no
40:30they decided that they were going to
40:31write a police report
40:33that that that would be testified to
40:37and that would be
40:38the same historical connotations that
40:42they've used forever to paint black men
40:44if you could tell if you can keep listen
40:47right now
40:48because of the historical nature in
40:50which black men were presented
40:53if you say
40:54a black man did anything
40:57to a white woman or a white person in
40:59general
41:00you automatically are robbed of your
41:02presumption of innocence that's supposed
41:05to be afforded to us through the
41:06constitution
41:09whether you want to believe that or it's
41:11difficult for people to accept whether
41:13white or black it is most certainly true
41:17right it doesn't mean
41:18that that everyone who isn't black is
41:21racist
41:22that's not what it means at all but i
41:24think we need to start acknowledging
41:25that
41:27these aren't just accusations and folk
41:29tales and stuff like that this is this
41:32is systematic racism played out
41:36bro so
41:37no no no no this is this this
41:41i i want i want those who are watching
41:43this and who are listening to this thing
41:46i want people to sit in that for a
41:48little bit man i want that to breathe i
41:50want the track to breathe
41:54the the reality of domains testimony
41:58the clarity
42:00the uncomfortable truth that did not go
42:01along with the narrative and railroading
42:04and utilizing a perfectly designed
42:06system for this outcome
42:09and
42:10also
42:11on that end there's like this almost
42:13joseph this narrative of like you you in
42:15a gay this unlikely person who points
42:18out fam
42:20this this isn't the way it needs to be
42:23you going through a real human
42:25experience of being dejected by that
42:27your mother even as one suffering
42:30even as one taking responsibility
42:33for something that she couldn't really
42:35take responsibility for affirming her
42:37love for you
42:38and you feeling the pain of that
42:41but also then that also spurring you
42:44right even as you try to get away even
42:46as you try to disconnect
42:48my i don't want to talk i don't respond
42:50with nothing
42:52she pursued you
42:55and you were in that moment you saw the
42:57suffering but you also saw
42:59a purpose you you got motivated to move
43:03in this way
43:04and so
43:05like
43:06to your point right you know like you
43:08know i'm so thankful that you you did
43:10penned this in redeeming justice that
43:12that you know
43:13in the book that i'm so excited that
43:16people will be able to get their hands
43:17on
43:19but you there's no there's there's no
43:20other outside of putting this on screen
43:23and even like reliving this for people
43:24to understand the the moment by moment
43:27suffering in anguish that you went
43:29through
43:30how instrumental her encouragement even
43:33those things that she didn't respond to
43:34those letters those prayers and then her
43:37showing up
43:38and still affirming it in a real way and
43:41so bro i i just i wanted to make sure
43:43that people got all that in
43:45and also felt even though they will
43:47never be able to feel that way
43:49and felt
43:50you know what the the furnace fire that
43:53is that's behind you in your work today
43:55and the work that you do right now
43:57because i'm just as like for you like
44:01to your point you talked about just like
44:02just the frustration
44:05of this
44:06like how did you you know was it that
44:09was that moment once your mom came like
44:11that dejection was it like what did it
44:13just like you know what
44:15i i'm good i'm clear
44:17right you know or was it still an active
44:20act of wrestle but you just had some
44:21more momentum
44:23so here's the thing about it
44:27it was still
44:29you know a tug of war but she knew that
44:32as well but she also knew
44:35that i just sent him letters
44:39that wasn't enough i got to go put the
44:41cables on him to give him the charge of
44:44god like look we gonna do this and so
44:46when she saw me and and i took off she
44:50knew so her and my aunties knew so what
44:53they started doing from that point
44:55they all three would copy a book of
44:58psalms and send me a bible quote
45:02every week every other day so i was
45:04getting bombarded so every time i was
45:06i'm sick of this i'm sick of it they
45:07ain't ruling it i'm sick of it
45:09adams you got mail
45:12the story of joe i'm like fighting y'all
45:18you know what i mean like they was them
45:20okay like it was them so i said you know
45:22what
45:23because because this is what i this is
45:25what really really you know just made me
45:27go even harder
45:28i started to read those letters
45:30from friends that i told you i wasn't
45:32reading and stuff like that so
45:35my mother wasn't in
45:37in her favorite seated church anymore
45:40she wasn't she wasn't going to church
45:42anymore
45:43because
45:44everybody know little jared from the
45:47sunbeam choir
45:49and you know sister sister adams you
45:52know with the boys who be you know in on
45:54the usher board you know everybody know
45:57you know what i mean like everybody know
45:59um you know his you know assistant
46:01sister uh uh scott you know uh her
46:04nephew you know singing the choir and
46:06she made the best banana pudding never
46:08in the church so that's the type of so
46:10so you gotta understand we gotta visit
46:13that as well why would my mother feel
46:15like
46:16she's so discouraged
46:18that she don't even want to go to church
46:20and talk about it in in the sanctuary
46:23where it's supposed to be talked about
46:24and praying on
46:26right
46:28she was just so
46:30drained
46:31right she was so drained and like you
46:33know let's just call a spade a spade you
46:34know
46:35depending on what congregation you get
46:38you know will depend on what type of
46:40treatment you get but that also in
46:42itself you know lets you understand that
46:44this problem that we have
46:46needs a holistic fixing this ain't no no
46:49one thing no one part no it's them no
46:52it's everybody everybody needs to be
46:56involved with this all the way from from
46:59from how we treat people who are accused
47:01of things to to how we treat their
47:03family you know who are accused of
47:05things and in that moment
47:08when i heard that big hat wearing
47:11peppermint passing woman wasn't in her
47:14favorite seat
47:15man's home i want my lick back now
47:18now i want my leg back and i'm not going
47:20to do it with my face i'm going to do it
47:22with that pen and i'm gonna learn how
47:24you did what you did
47:26and now i'm gonna do it to reverse it
47:30and that's what got me here whoo
47:32yo
47:34yo
47:38this is like yo it's like what the what
47:40was meant for what was meant for evil
47:42man
47:43what was meant for evil you know that
47:44that that fire that was meant to consume
47:46you and burn you in in a cell
47:49you know in the jail cell of so many
47:50stories only so many narratives
47:53it was turned you turned that that that
47:56force and you brought that fire to
47:58redeem to refine to bring gold out of
48:01the garbage that they tried to think and
48:03position you in man
48:05this is this is why i think this is so
48:07important because i think
48:09when i when i thank you to your point
48:11shout out to ava
48:12you know when then when they see us
48:14brian stevens suggests mercy uh the
48:17innocent project in the multiple states
48:19that it is in
48:20west virginia virginia wisconsin
48:23illinois
48:25what i think is so uh powerful is just
48:27like the
48:28the evil that you witness not witnessing
48:31to you
48:33you can't be consumed
48:36it takes because i think you as you
48:38could have heard this when you issue
48:39you've seen this in issues of police
48:41brutality i think people sometimes get
48:43frustrated when they see
48:44brothers and sisters saying i forgive
48:47and you know they say like oh man that's
48:49some nonsense you know you mean right
48:51but it takes something outside of this
48:53world right and so i'm kind of now even
48:56like as you're as you now have navigated
48:58that right to having it overturned and
49:00to kind of now seeing the realities of
49:02this you know you become the first
49:05the first to have been exonerated to now
49:06practice
49:08and also take on cases within the
49:11innocent project you become that and you
49:14start to do that you can even do that
49:15within the same court
49:17same courthouse return
49:20to
49:21people hearing us who understand life
49:23have gone through some things but
49:24nothing of this magnitude still
49:28i know it was a constant wrestle
49:30so what what had what did your
49:32conversation relationship with god
49:34become
49:35that allowed you what are the tactical
49:36things that you would do that allow you
49:38those moments that like things come down
49:40you come back home and you remember
49:42you know i mean yeah it doesn't consume
49:45you where you're like you know what bump
49:46this you know forget all this this takes
49:48too long i ain't taking this case
49:50what was your conversation what's your
49:51conversation about what's your dialogue
49:53what what does it look like now to
49:55maintain
49:57yeah well well honestly what i learned
49:59through this is this
50:02so
50:02i realized
50:04going through this
50:06i had learned
50:08faith
50:09but did not yet
50:12have it
50:14you understand what i'm saying
50:16i i had learned it because i was raised
50:19in a church our kids are raised in a
50:21church so we learn
50:24faith
50:25but it's not until that faith is tested
50:28when you earn
50:29faith and you have
50:34that's it so
50:36my conversations
50:37were
50:39why
50:40to all forget it
50:42so oh my god
50:45let me stop playing with the radio and
50:47sticking my head out the window god
50:49driving
50:50you know let the man drive and get me to
50:52this destination
50:54he obviously taken me to the scenic
50:56route for a reason
50:58so that's how my transformation was and
51:00i'm telling you now having having you
51:02know how they say you got to go through
51:04it to get through it um
51:06so i'm telling you from the perspective
51:08now of yeah i'm here which is why i did
51:11the book because i want people to not
51:13forget do not look at me
51:16like how the court system looks at our
51:17babies the court systems looked at our
51:19babies and they say
51:20i don't want to hit that about know how
51:22he grew up they all got the same story
51:24um he whatever crime it was he did it on
51:26citizen they look at our babies as if
51:28they were born at the scene of their
51:29crimes so i asked that people don't look
51:31at me as if i was born an attorney
51:34because i wasn't and don't look at me as
51:37if
51:37my experiences are all those as an
51:40attorney because they were not
51:42like
51:43you that's why i did the book for you to
51:45understand and as i'm talking as well
51:47man my faith was earned okay
51:50and when you earn something
51:53when someone gives you something
51:55you may value it but you don't value it
51:57as much as you earn something then
52:01you understand you've got your first
52:02pair l1 you earned and bought on your
52:04own and you you got the toothbrush out
52:07you cleaning them up you know mama
52:08bought you some shoes you out here
52:10running with the laces over busting them
52:13you know what i mean yeah so so that's
52:15what i'm saying my faith was earned so
52:18when i earned it it was earned through
52:21the testing of it
52:23so why on earth would i give it up so
52:25when i'm going in courtrooms in these
52:27different states in these southern
52:28states and one of the things people say
52:30to me you know when i when i speak when
52:32people see it's funny
52:34because when people see me
52:36you know they just i don't know i don't
52:38know what they assume to be honest with
52:39you some of what i think they assume is
52:41you know here's a fair looking dude you
52:44know he in the seat in a suit
52:47you know
52:48he got to be an entertainer or something
52:50like that right you know or if he's an
52:53attorney then he got to be like one of
52:55these big corporate tax attorneys or
52:57something like that
52:59but then when i started to talk right
53:02when i started to deliver
53:04that's when people from the gallery get
53:06to chasing me out the courtroom after
53:08they're like can i get your card you
53:09know can i get you information because
53:11it's something that they they're not
53:12used to it
53:14but that in itself is now what's driving
53:17me now why come united come on babies
53:20can't do this tell me why you know if
53:22they if they can become rap stars
53:25and
53:26do viral ways because each and every day
53:29they get up there and they trying to
53:30figure it out how come we can't put
53:32young black attorneys in front of them
53:33like this to inspire them to do the same
53:36right
53:37and then and then along with not saying
53:40we excluding what the the the young
53:43talented artists from chicago who come
53:45up to chief keeps and all of that we're
53:46not saying we don't want that but why
53:48couldn't we can't have both
53:50how come he have chief keith
53:53and jared adams how come we can't have
53:56little baby in lawrence you understand
53:58what i'm saying that's all i'm saying so
54:01i i just you know my my thing is this
54:05you know i don't try to make everybody
54:07you don't have my faith you know or or
54:10or anything like that but i'm telling
54:12you right now
54:13you know i this ain't luck man i ain't
54:15never went to nobody's casino and walked
54:17out with having to be able to retire
54:19never in my life i ain't never had a
54:21scratch-out car people be like don't
54:23forget the mega millions at 600 man stop
54:25man god ain't got that
54:27god want me to work okay he makes me
54:29rich to go retire it's something else
54:32that he has me to do which is why i'm
54:34still here there was something else that
54:36he had in store for me which was the
54:38reason why i ended up here because i
54:40wasn't
54:41what they wanted labeled as a bad kid i
54:44wasn't that i was graduating school you
54:46know i had a job i was on my way to
54:49junior college so
54:51he wanted me
54:53to to to to not do something because he
54:57has something else in mind and i think
54:59this is the only way to get my attention
55:01and and i didn't i'm not this is what
55:03i'm telling you
55:06i'm telling you this
55:08from what my
55:09godmother and my my godmother my aunt is
55:12my godmother
55:14josephine her name is sugar her name is
55:16going to come up in the book um sugar my
55:19other auntie named honey and my mother
55:21name is peaches all right so don't y'all
55:23be talking about my mother okay and
55:24country folk watch y'all know from
55:26downtown all y'all got the name
55:30all type of stuff i got an uncle named
55:31sonny boy okay so y'all know what i'm
55:34talking about right but
55:35um
55:36so so now um
55:39you know
55:40she says to me my auntie started to like
55:43keep me busy because she would write the
55:44letters but she would send me to chicago
55:46sometimes in the chicago tribune
55:48and so um
55:50i actually i'm like
55:52you know auntie look i appreciate this
55:54but this kind of costs a lot for you to
55:57keep this subscription for these two
55:59newspapers coming up here you know what
56:00i mean like you don't have to you know
56:01how to do it she said no no no
56:03i'm doing it for a reason baby
56:05i'm like why she's like because i want
56:08you to understand something
56:10you keep saying
56:12if god why god i'm in here
56:16but
56:17each and every day when i get this paper
56:20i see one of your high school friends or
56:22somebody in the neighborhood
56:25killed
56:26or in jail for the rest of their life on
56:29federal cases
56:30so you got to understand
56:32sometimes
56:34he got to get you out the way of
56:36yourself
56:37so he can do
56:39what you are intended to do on this
56:42earth you know what i'm saying sometimes
56:45he got to get you out your own way so
56:48you can do what he intended you to do on
56:50his earth
56:51that was her stride that was her thing
56:53because i kept wondering i'm like man
56:55these papers i'm looking at the cost
56:56like this is the this is 2 000 now right
56:59whereas like papers are still hanging on
57:01but they're still there right this this
57:04wasn't changed now so they were
57:06expensive and she would i'm paying for
57:08this i want you to see this and sure
57:09enough you know i'm looking at my
57:11buddies i'm looking at you know you know
57:13my friends and they're being picked off
57:15and you know i'm looking at right now
57:16what i'm looking at is
57:19everybody everybody you know who's
57:21looking at this they're gonna know
57:23the serious snowfall right
57:25right
57:26but let me tell y'all something
57:29don't forget about the remnants of
57:31snowfall
57:32because we are still
57:34in the remnants of snowfall right and
57:38here's what i mean i'm an 80s baby
57:41so 80s is when the crack era
57:45placed the noose
57:47or replaced itself as the noose
57:49on the neck of the black and brown
57:51community
57:52so
57:53as a kid
57:55and people are coming up missing
57:58the adults would be like oh so-and-so
58:00went down south to go live with
58:01so-and-so now so-and-so was locked up
58:04that's what someone was he was locked up
58:06to selling dope or something and then
58:08there were people being killed there
58:10were disputes there were times where you
58:12know my mother would just simply leave
58:14the back door open and yell our names
58:18you understand what i'm saying but now
58:20that was changing
58:21because people were looking for ways to
58:23feed their addictions they were doing
58:24petty crimes people will walk in on them
58:27breaking in their garages and end up
58:28dead and so my south side community man
58:31i watched it you know from the front
58:32stoop like i said with that icy cup like
58:34i watched it transform into
58:37a scene from new jack city
58:40so so so as i'm looking at this
58:43and now i'm growing up as an adult now
58:45i'm looking back at this now i can tell
58:47you for sure
58:49so when when the adults
58:52came up listen and they told the kids
58:54that oh they was down south they were
58:55really in prison so when those kids
58:57needed a parent they went where to
58:59grandma so now grandma raised them and
59:01grandma you know grandma about that
59:03business black grandmas back then was up
59:05but boats about that you you could throw
59:07a rock if you won't
59:09and they gonna come out and whoop you
59:10and then when your mother walked home
59:11from the bus stop from work they're
59:13gonna tell her you're gonna get another
59:14whooping right that's the
59:16type of community that we had before
59:18snowfall hit us so now
59:21grandmothers are having to raise
59:23grandkids
59:25and then you just do the math fast
59:28forward to where we are right now
59:29lawrence i want you to tell me who the
59:31grandparents are
59:32some of their parents are the ones who
59:34were directly affected by the crack era
59:36whether they were strung out or whether
59:37they did prison prison sentences or
59:39whether they suffered as victims of
59:41attacks
59:42from
59:44remnants remnants of snowfall so i love
59:47the show so i'm not saying anything
59:49disparaging against the show watch the
59:51show but go do a book report afterward
59:53on the remnants of snowfall
59:56bruh you know i think that's that's full
59:58circle and i think that's an
59:59illustration that i think people can
1:00:01understand and get like you know who are
1:00:03the grandparents now right well
1:00:05right you know i think when you look at
1:00:07that 80s baby here you know i mean you
1:00:09you recognize that um
1:00:12i i was you know this is this is so
1:00:15timely and i appreciate this because
1:00:17part of conversations and i talked about
1:00:19the strange fruit of what happened
1:00:20before the the the genius evil i call
1:00:25of
1:00:25our system is evil right we're seeing
1:00:29the fruits of it
1:00:30we're living the fruit the strange fruit
1:00:33of it so to speak
1:00:35um and and i think that the great thing
1:00:37is that one there have to be people with
1:00:40the
1:00:40megaphones who's calling it right the
1:00:43connection
1:00:44and two
1:00:45i think there also has to be i think
1:00:48real tangible
1:00:49um work and and i want to say this even
1:00:52as we got to get to get to this place
1:00:53because i think that you've just done
1:00:56you you've dropped so many bars for
1:00:57people
1:01:00you talked about things happen at the
1:01:02state level right at the same time
1:01:04you're traversing right you know you're
1:01:06working on a case a waverly case
1:01:10you know and yeah and an irrel an era
1:01:13eerie
1:01:15story
1:01:16you know
1:01:17now you have law enforcement that's
1:01:19there and so you see the incentives and
1:01:22the interests around this not going the
1:01:24way perhaps it's supposed to go from a
1:01:26justice perspective you know
1:01:28you know now as you kind of were
1:01:29thinking about the work and doing work
1:01:31like this just you know how do you
1:01:34remain focused and not get overwhelmed
1:01:37because that's not the only case but
1:01:38that's one that you're you're working on
1:01:40right now how do you make sure that you
1:01:42choose and then what are the things that
1:01:44you're learning in this process around
1:01:45your strategy moving forward around your
1:01:47work
1:01:48yeah so i mean the whole idea behind
1:01:50this is this and i and i said this to
1:01:52you before in terms of of like our
1:01:55babies man that should be everybody's
1:01:56focus right now because like look how
1:01:59how you know everyone's look everyone
1:02:01should be focused on getting people out
1:02:03the boat not saying that that's not
1:02:04important but like we also should be
1:02:06focused on grooming our own candidates
1:02:09okay
1:02:10because it's because see here's the
1:02:12thing
1:02:13right
1:02:15our babies are directly under attack and
1:02:17they're not under attack simply because
1:02:20that's just the population to attack
1:02:22they're under attack because
1:02:25that is the talent pool
1:02:27that is our the potential replacement to
1:02:30our old presses
1:02:32so how do you stop that before it even
1:02:34becomes you know a problem
1:02:38you you get them at the door
1:02:40and so so you got to think about it
1:02:42right
1:02:43you know
1:02:45how many how many loose guns do you see
1:02:48roaming around the affluent
1:02:50neighborhoods right
1:02:52and i'll take it a bit further
1:02:54so i i go hang out you know with with
1:02:57different sets of friends
1:02:59um
1:03:00and
1:03:01you know i remember hanging out with
1:03:02some friends with my wife and stuff like
1:03:04that i'm like man you know what you know
1:03:06let me let me i'm about to walk to the
1:03:07liquor store man we having a good time
1:03:08and get some more wine like they all
1:03:10looked at me like
1:03:11whoa
1:03:13i'm like yeah they're like maybe liquor
1:03:15store walker
1:03:16i got in the car that night and i
1:03:18thought about something
1:03:19i said
1:03:21man not only was it strange
1:03:23that they were like man looking at me
1:03:25like man liquor stores are walking
1:03:26distance but like why did they believe
1:03:28like that would be a far-fetched idea
1:03:30for me to think but then i got it all
1:03:32right
1:03:33think about think about the affluent
1:03:35areas
1:03:36you know you see newport billboards in
1:03:39affluent areas nope
1:03:40you you see you you see eight ball you
1:03:43know what i'm saying a slit spot liquor
1:03:45you don't see that right
1:03:47but when you go to our neighborhood
1:03:49they could blindfold me spin me around
1:03:5130
1:03:5230 times
1:03:54make me walk and i'm gonna hit a liquor
1:03:56store or church
1:03:57you see what i'm saying so i say that to
1:04:00say to say this right
1:04:04it's our duty it's our responsibility
1:04:07to properly carry the torch for the ones
1:04:10who walked across that bridge getting
1:04:13sprayed with water holes for the ones
1:04:15who got dogs sick on them for the
1:04:18churches who got firebombed that's why
1:04:21the churches today need to step up
1:04:24if you don't want to do it for yourself
1:04:26if you don't feel compelled for your
1:04:27congregation feel
1:04:29compelled for the people who died to
1:04:32allow you to have the right to be you
1:04:34today
1:04:37it's a word
1:04:39i i think there's no bet there's no
1:04:41there's no better way i think to even
1:04:43close because i think that there's an
1:04:45exhortation
1:04:47you kind of people know when they hear
1:04:48the tradition never sit uh under the the
1:04:52the words words
1:04:54hopefully god inspired gospel inspired
1:04:56words
1:04:57but it's not so much
1:05:00i want i want to say this too
1:05:02you know before i close because i hope
1:05:03you got me back when the book is out
1:05:05right bro of course of course you know
1:05:08this this is what to answer your
1:05:10question about
1:05:11the fire that burns in me
1:05:13you know is this but my mother has never
1:05:16not reminded me of how lonely that
1:05:19island was for us
1:05:20you understand what i'm saying it was
1:05:22lonely
1:05:23you know
1:05:24she she couldn't be herself all the way
1:05:27you know she was in prison just minus
1:05:29the bars
1:05:30so
1:05:31i get this law degree
1:05:33and i remember taking it to her i
1:05:35remember her just you know she just
1:05:37tearful joyful she hanging it up like
1:05:39it's a photo album and i'm like what's
1:05:41going on i thought we was you know you
1:05:42know she's like no no i'm not these are
1:05:44i'm i'm joyful because i know
1:05:47that you're not just about to go out
1:05:48here and make a lot of money you're
1:05:50going to go out here and you're going to
1:05:51be a savior to some other mother
1:05:55who don't have enough money to afford
1:05:57her son justice
1:06:00and that has stuck with me forever so
1:06:03now what i'm doing right now is this
1:06:07see there was a time when they said
1:06:08hip-hop
1:06:10didn't you know they had a
1:06:12limited shelf life right
1:06:14um
1:06:15and they said this because you know all
1:06:17the customer hip hop it was mainly black
1:06:20but then kids started to emulate that
1:06:23and it started to transcend different
1:06:24generations in different races
1:06:26because it was cool
1:06:28that's how i'm trying to make the law i
1:06:29want to make it look cool for our babies
1:06:31for them to understand man that they
1:06:32have the power you know they got the
1:06:34power they have the potential they have
1:06:36the talent so we need to protect their
1:06:38role
1:06:39so that they can travel to become
1:06:41the replacements to our equality
1:06:44oppressors
1:06:45thank you both for having me man brother
1:06:47man i'm grateful i think on behalf of
1:06:49those who seeing us and are listening to
1:06:51this man i'm thankful for you brother
1:06:53and
1:06:54brother like we talked about man this is
1:06:56just water under the bridge man meaning
1:06:58this the story's gonna get out there um
1:07:00we're all gonna do our part but uh we're
1:07:02locking arms man because i think we are
1:07:04all this is all our interest not our
1:07:07vertical not this is our our interest
1:07:09right if one if one is not free we are
1:07:11not all free and so we have to all do
1:07:13our part to help move this thing forward
1:07:15and i'm just thankful as well for the
1:07:17light that for the light that you allow
1:07:19to be seen of how god walked with you
1:07:22and how you navigate god and just i
1:07:24think your words around faith and earn
1:07:26and just like this difference between
1:07:27learning faith and like really having it
1:07:29i think that's going to change
1:07:30somebody's life like the moment they
1:07:32hear it and so brother man uh for that
1:07:34and much more man i thank you man all
1:07:36respect all salute thank you i pray that
1:07:39you do not grow weary and doing the good
1:07:40and that god continues to strengthen you
1:07:42through your village through your wife
1:07:43through your family um and through
1:07:45brothers and sisters who you won't even
1:07:47expect will come out the woodwork and
1:07:49will lift you up in prayer and cover you
1:07:51and encourage you because they know that
1:07:52you're called to this work brother
1:07:54salute salute salute thank you

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