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Jake Claver Admits why he was WRONG about XRP!!! | #157 — Transcript

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0:00My thesis on investing really to be an
0:03investment, it's it's a four-year hold
0:04or longer.
0:06>> Otherwise, you're trading in my opinion.
0:07Uh again, there's no no everybody has
0:09their different opinion on what's
0:10trading and what's investing.
0:12>> Sure.
0:12>> But that would be the duration that if
0:14I'm investing in something, you know, if
0:16it's private equity, if it is private
0:18credit, if it's a fund, if it's digital
0:20assets, that's kind of my mindset going
0:22into it. [music]
0:27down.
0:32[singing and music]
0:36>> Yo yo, it's your boy Phil Wam Bam
0:38Benamino baby. It's another Wham Bam
0:39Wednesday. You know the show about
0:41ordinary people who've done
0:42extraordinary things. As as always,
0:44baby, we got to ask you first. Do us a
0:46favor. Hit the subscribe button. 85% of
0:50the people that watch the show don't
0:51subscribe. Just click it. It's free. I
0:54promise you won't cost you a penny, but
0:55it definitely helps us and helps our
0:57guests as well. Back by popular demand,
0:59I sat down with this guy back in
1:01December of last year. He was here on
1:03our pod. We had over 1.5 million views,
1:07okay, talking to this guy. Everybody
1:09loved him. So, we brought him back. I
1:12told him then that we were going to be
1:13longtime friends. And you know what?
1:16He's here in the house today in ATL.
1:18Welcome. Jake Claver's in the house.
1:20What's up, Jake? How are you, baby?
1:22>> Dude, bless. So, so great to be back.
1:23Thank you for having me.
1:24>> Absolutely, man. I appreciate you
1:26coming. You're a man of your word. You
1:27said, "Hey, we can go do this again.
1:29Roll back and we'll find out all these
1:31predictions that you did."
1:32>> Yeah. [laughter]
1:33>> Ready to run through them.
1:34>> Well, we're going to run through them
1:35because I got a little report card right
1:37here, Jake. I'm not going to lie. You
1:39made a lot of predictions back in
1:41December and unfortunately
1:43>> few of them didn't play out.
1:44>> Few of them didn't play out. Well,
1:46that's fair. But you know what? I
1:47respect the fact that you come here sit.
1:49We're gonna You're like, "Hey, let me
1:51face up to this. Let me let me tell you
1:52let's let's talk about it
1:53>> 100%.
1:54>> So you know what right before I just
1:56want to go ahead and tell the viewers
1:57things are going to be a little bit
1:57different today because we are going to
1:59we're going to talk about the last part
2:00some of the some predictions that he
2:01went over and some of the things that he
2:03discussed and also we had some lucky
2:05guests. You know if you watched us we
2:08put out a little short and we said that
2:09Jake was going to be here. Some of the
2:10some of these people here that are here
2:12today are here to actually ask Jake some
2:14questions. So I don't know if they're
2:16good questions or bad questions
2:18>> but we're going to put it on. We're
2:19going to find out. So, you know, stay
2:21tuned for that as well. But, you know
2:22what? Let's get right back into it. You
2:23know, starting out from some of the year
2:26predictions, you know, you had made a
2:28comment right away. You said that, you
2:30know, the opportunity will never come
2:32around for another 200 to 500,000 years.
2:36That was 7 months ago.
2:38>> Yep.
2:38>> XRP is down 43% since then.
2:42>> 43%. It was at $2.30. It's down to a
2:46buck09.
2:47>> Yep. The S&P is up 8.5%.
2:51Okay, it is good. Yeah. Yeah.
2:53>> Gold is down 6.4%.
2:56And Bitcoin, of course, is down 27%.
2:59Crypto overall down 35% as we stand
3:01today across
3:02>> the board.
3:02>> What happened, Jake? Talk to us.
3:04>> We haven't had the catalyst play out,
3:06right? So, you know, we had the Fed
3:07announcement today. I don't know if
3:09you've been watching that or not.
3:10>> No, I did not. So, fill us in. So they
3:11held so they've continued to hold rates
3:13this whole time and continued to kick
3:16the can on the reverse carry trade and a
3:18lot of the things that I believe are
3:19going to be catalyst to drive adoption
3:22of this asset class and also a lot of
3:24liquidity that everybody's hoping for
3:25moving into these assets. You know, we
3:28did have the war with Iran.
3:30>> I don't know if I mentioned this on your
3:31podcast or not, but we talked about the
3:33Straighter Hamuz getting shut down.
3:35Everybody told me I was crazy on that.
3:37>> What happened? [clears throat]
3:38>> Yeah,
3:39>> we we have that, right? Right. So, we've
3:41seen oil, you know, come up
3:43significantly in value. There's uh
3:45significant pressure on the Bank of
3:47Japan and other economies globally with
3:49inflation. And the only way out of this
3:52debt crisis is to back it with digital
3:54assets. That's the only way that they
3:55can get out of this deal.
3:56>> Yeah. Do you see that that's still do
3:59you still feel that XRP is the way to go
4:02and to hold and relax?
4:04>> You know, I have to give my disclaimer.
4:06Nothing here is for financial advice,
4:08only for entertainment and educational
4:10purposes. And any opinions I share are
4:12my opinions, not the opinions of Digital
4:13Ascension Group or any or any of our
4:15subsidiaries. Uh but yeah, I'm I'm still
4:17fully allocated. I've continued to
4:19average down, right? So, and I've been,
4:22you know, in the market much longer than
4:23a lot of people. So, I've actually
4:25averaged up over over the last two
4:27years, but I continue to buy. It's not
4:30like my convictions changed at all. You
4:32know, that's the one thing that I did
4:34want to hit with you with because seven
4:35months ago, like I said, you know, I'm
4:37not gonna lie, I bought in a $230. You
4:39know, it's down to a buck 09. You know,
4:41you know, I've lost half of what I put
4:42in,
4:43>> but I did buy some yesterday. I'm not
4:45going to lie. You know, do I continue to
4:47buy? Do we still do the Do you still
4:49feel like it's coming?
4:50>> My question to people when they when
4:52they have this issue is if you had
4:53bought Bitcoin at a dollar or you had
4:56bought Bitcoin at $2, do you really
4:57care? I mean, you might have twice as
4:59much Bitcoin if you bought it at a
5:00dollar versus $2, but
5:01>> a little bit more richer.
5:02>> You're probably doing okay.
5:04>> Still rich.
5:05>> Exactly. If you have that level of
5:07conviction, if you if you've done the
5:08research, if you understand what this is
5:11going to look like on the other side of
5:12adoption and how much liquidity is going
5:14to have to be able to service all the
5:16transactions globally for the backend
5:17settlement of the stock market, the FX
5:19market, commodities,
5:21um, Swift, all the different ways that I
5:23believe XRP is going to be used. It's
5:26it's a significantly higher value than
5:27what it is today. Three, four digits
5:29very easily to get, you know, enough
5:31liquidity in there to actually back that
5:32and do it.
5:34>> So, if you bought it, like I said, at a
5:35dollar or $2, I'm not crying, I'll tell
5:38you that.
5:39>> Yeah, but you're a band that made 20
5:40million, you know.
5:41>> Well, yeah. Yeah. In 2021,
5:44>> so I should have also sold more at the
5:47top, right?
5:48>> Um, and I think that's true for
5:50everybody's cycle or their first cycle.
5:53And this is a lot of people's first
5:54cycle. probably people that watched your
5:55podcast last time that may have been
5:57their first introduction to crypto. They
5:59get excited. There's some hype. You have
6:00to be patient with anything. So, you've
6:02run, you know, multiple businesses, it's
6:04taken a long time in order to be able to
6:05build those up. Most people that invest
6:08in something and they grow something
6:09over a period of time. You plant a seed,
6:11you have to water it, you have to
6:12nurture it, you have to do all those
6:13things in order to get a liquidity event
6:15or an exit later on. If if my thesis on
6:19investing really to be an investment,
6:21it's it's a four-year hold or longer.
6:24>> Otherwise, you're trading.
6:25>> Yeah.
6:26>> In my opinion.
6:27>> Uh again, there's no no everybody has
6:29their different opinion on what's
6:30trading and what's investing.
6:32>> Sure.
6:32>> But that would be the duration that if
6:34I'm investing in something, you know, if
6:36it's private equity, if it is private
6:38credit, if it's a fund, if it's digital
6:40assets, that's kind of my mindset going
6:42into it. I think the problem is when
6:45people are, you know, actually investing
6:47in a company, there's something there
6:49they're investing in. They're banking
6:51that company is going to grow and it's
6:52going to do well. Crypto's a lot
6:54different. There's it's really not a
6:56company. It's not a thing, right? It's
6:57just you're betting that somebody can
6:59sell it at a higher value than what
7:01you're purchasing it at.
7:02>> Today, I would agree with you. Uh I do
7:04believe that this is all speculative
7:06still at the moment. We don't have any
7:07real world adoption. We've had delays
7:09with the Clarity Act. We finally got the
7:11Genius Act almost across the line here.
7:13We got the OC, the Fed, the Treasury,
7:16the FDIC all coming out with the way
7:18that they are providing guidelines
7:20around the Genius Act, which was passed
7:21in August of or not August, July of 25.
7:24Um, and until they do that, the banks
7:27aren't going to step in with stable
7:28coins either. So to your point, this is
7:31all speculation and you're betting on
7:33which network you think is going to be
7:35used in a certain capacity and looking
7:36at total addressable market just like
7:38you would in stocks for what they're
7:41trying to capture, what um area they are
7:44in and how much of that they're going to
7:46capture. So if you look at total
7:48addressable market for back-end
7:49settlement of all these things, it's
7:51quadrillions of dollars. If you're
7:53looking at the derivatives market,
7:55>> whichever one you think is going to get
7:56that, that's probably going to be
7:58significantly higher priced than what it
8:00is today,
8:00>> right? What do you what what's going on
8:02with the Clarity Act? Why why is this
8:04hasn't come to
8:05>> I don't think we need it personally
8:07>> at this point
8:08>> for XRP in particular. So, because of
8:10the SEC lawsuit with Ripple, uh in that
8:13lawsuit on July 13th of 2023, we got
8:16clarity for XRP. It's not a security. uh
8:20Fininsson actually came out you know in
8:222014 2015 and said that it was a
8:24currency here in the US um and now we've
8:27got the CFTC and the SEC providing joint
8:29guidance that it is a commodity so you
8:32know there's 16 assets that they've
8:34given that designation to between their
8:36joint guidance clarity act gives full
8:38clarity for all digital assets uh but
8:41for those 16 you know they're they're
8:43pretty much in the clear at this point
8:45really if if there aren't any other
8:47competitors or anything that has clarity
8:50and XRP does it actually provides it a
8:52moat. So, you know, there's been a lot
8:56of headwinds for the Clarity Act.
8:58There's been a lot of other things that
8:59have taken precedent ahead of it. Uh
9:01they've been fighting back and forth
9:02about the ethics with Trump's family and
9:04how much they made in crypto. They've
9:06been doing, you know, a lot of things on
9:08Capitol Hill, you know, word smithing
9:10things, but it's still in limbo in the
9:14Senate. The Senate has another week or
9:16two here before they go on recess,
9:18right? If they don't take it to the
9:19filibuster, they got to get it through
9:21the filibuster to change the language
9:23and everything in it. They then have to
9:24take it to a full Senate floor vote,
9:27pass it there, and the Democrats don't
9:29seem like they're on board with that.
9:31>> Once that's done, it's got to go back to
9:33the House because it was already passed
9:34through the House once. But now that
9:37there's going to be changes to it,
9:38they'd have to pass it again. And then
9:40after that, it would go to Trump's desk.
9:41And he said he's not going to sign
9:43anything until the Save Act has been
9:44passed. And he signed that. So, there's
9:47still a lot of friction here before
9:50we're going to see that. Now, you have
9:51midterms coming up. You've got other
9:53recesses for Congress over the summer
9:55with with Labor Day and everything else
9:57going on. I don't I am Unless there is a
9:59catalyst that requires Congress to come
10:02together and then get pulled back in and
10:05execute on something, I'm I'm in the
10:07boat of it's probably not going to be
10:09this year. It probably be 2027.
10:10>> Why do you think that is? Why don't they
10:12want Why aren't they all together on
10:15this? I think for a lot of reasons, you
10:17know,
10:17>> what's what's really the negative piece
10:19of it all?
10:20>> Banks would be put out of business very
10:22quickly if they don't adopt the the same
10:25infrastructure. So, it really
10:26democratizes access to everybody for
10:28financial products. Uh, DeFi in
10:30particular, having open- source
10:31technology that allows pretty much
10:33anybody with a wallet and a cell phone
10:34to connect to it for financial services
10:37disintermediates the banks. They they
10:39don't want that, right? And so they're
10:41they're trying to work their way in
10:43where they still stay as the
10:45intermediary, the gatekeeper, and
10:47there's legislation and oversight and
10:48all these things around it to make sure
10:50that they're involved in this next
10:52iteration of the financial system. And
10:55they have there's a lot of frictions
10:56built into the system right now.
10:58>> You when you send a payment a it's two
11:00or three days before it settles on the
11:02other side of that. Sometimes uh if you
11:04use a payment app, we talked about that
11:06last time, you know, PayPal, Vinmo, Cash
11:07App, Wise, whatever you use,
11:10>> you can do a fee and it's prefunded,
11:12right?
11:12>> Or you can wait the two or three days
11:14and then they get that money to use it
11:15for those two or three days.
11:17>> That's why they don't want this to
11:19happen because the velocity of money
11:20will pick up substantially. Like you
11:23literally get paid, you know, by the day
11:25or by the hour eventually.
11:27>> And right now it's every two weeks. So
11:30even even people that run payrolls, you
11:32know, they're collecting that money a
11:33couple days before holding it in their
11:36account, earning money on it, and then
11:37they pay it out to your employees and do
11:39all the taxes and everything else
11:40they're doing. Because of these
11:42frictions and the the gating that there
11:44is and these intermediaries that sit in
11:45between,
11:46>> there's a lot of money to be made
11:48>> and incumbents aren't just going to give
11:50that up without a fight,
11:52>> right? You know, it's it's it's funny
11:54because Yeah. you talked about some some
11:56some things that didn't come to
11:58fruition, but you talked about a couple
11:59things that did. Yeah.
12:00>> You know, one of the things I know that
12:02we we discussed a little bit was with
12:04the Visa Mastercard, you know, and how
12:06that affects into my world, the MySpace,
12:08right?
12:09>> And that was something you kind of
12:11nailed right on the on the button. Tell
12:13tell the viewers a little bit about that
12:14and how that affects
12:14>> Yeah. So, Visa and Mastercard have
12:16stepped up to the plate here. They've
12:17integrated a lot of these different
12:18payment channels and networks. We've got
12:20AI coming onto the scene. Uh T-54 is
12:24building like know your agent is what
12:25it's called. So you have KYC and KYB for
12:28people, right?
12:29>> This will be KYA for agents. And they're
12:32adopting agentic payments. Agents can't
12:34really operate without crypto. They they
12:37need stable coins. They need digital
12:40representations of value in order to be
12:41able to transact because an agent can't
12:43open a bank account,
12:44>> right? Uh, and so they're actually
12:47building rails right now with Mastercard
12:48and Visa to be able to transact over
12:50these crypto rails using stable coins
12:53and other tokenized assets on your
12:55behalf. You can set up, you know,
12:57payments uh and and you know, gate them
13:00and put guard rails around things and
13:02the agent does those payments for you,
13:04>> which would be really cool,
13:05>> right? Sure.
13:06>> Uh, and especially if money moves real
13:08time and you know,
13:09>> is it safe?
13:10>> Well, there there's again guardrails.
13:12>> You [laughter] got to have lots of them.
13:13you got to have make sure that stuff in
13:15place. But yeah, they've they have
13:16announced multiple partnerships over the
13:18last,
13:19>> you know, since our podcast um that
13:22where they are adopting this technology
13:23to use it.
13:24>> Now, you know, cyber security obviously
13:26a big thing and people are still scared,
13:28nervous for sure.
13:29>> You know, you hear Coinbase all the
13:30time, these kids, you know, wanting to
13:31purchase things and stuff. Everybody's
13:33worried like, where do I put my money?
13:34Where do I go?
13:35>> You know, I know you have your own
13:36company. I know you just relaunched. You
13:38just changed the name.
13:38>> Yeah, it was rebranded the whole thing.
13:40>> Yeah, you rebranded the whole thing.
13:41Tell us a little about that, man. What
13:42made you rebrand?
13:43>> So, you know, we we've operated under
13:45all these different entities for a
13:46while. We had digital ascension group,
13:48which is the parent company and you
13:50know, we had digital wealth partners.
13:52The tagline originally for the company
13:54was your digital wealth partner. So, I
13:56named the wealth management digital
13:57wealth partners and then we had uh the
13:59family office side which was digital
14:01family office and then we had the
14:03insurance side which was aure legacy.
14:05And so, we've just consolidated all that
14:07to make it easy for our clients and
14:08everybody to find us and understand
14:10what's going on. Some people didn't even
14:12understand that the the companies were
14:13affiliated, right? They were purchasing
14:15or working with one group and they're
14:16like, "What do you mean? This is a
14:18separate company.
14:19>> So, we just made it easy. We bought the
14:21domain dag.com
14:23and uh now everything lives there. It's
14:25uh much more institutional feeling than
14:27than what it was before.
14:28>> Go to Amazon today and purchase money
14:30management for beginners. A book for
14:32everybody, especially younger kids, kids
14:34that get money, don't know what to do
14:36with it. This is the best $20 you'll
14:38ever spend. will save you millions.
14:41That's right. I said millions of dollars
14:43if you start young and earn you the
14:45same. A m a z o n Amazon
14:50>> dealing with some even larger accounts,
14:52people that are, you know, spending
14:53millions and millions with you.
14:55>> Um and then all of a sudden watching
14:56their portfolio just just tank. Like how
14:59does it make you feel? I mean, you got
15:01to have some little bit of conflict with
15:02some people here and there.
15:03>> Well, you know, crypto is risky.
15:05>> I mean, you said that before, right?
15:06speculation and and the people that we
15:09work with that have those type of
15:10accounts, it's not like it's their total
15:12portfolio. It's not their life savings
15:13that they're investing with us, right?
15:15>> It's a portion of their portfolio and we
15:17manage that portion and we give them
15:19guidance on what we see in the market.
15:21And they're also long-term investors.
15:23They're not here to make a quick buck.
15:25They're looking at generational wealth.
15:27What's this look like over the next five
15:28and 10 years? And how do we position
15:30ourselves today to take advantage of
15:32that? And so, you know, again, you could
15:35be in stocks and be down 50%. If you
15:37invested at the top in ' 07,
15:40>> I mean, you went way down, but now
15:42you're way up.
15:43>> Yeah.
15:43>> At this point, right? So, same thing if
15:45you invested at the top of the dot boom
15:48in like an Amazon or something else, if
15:49you just held it, you're still doing
15:51really good today,
15:52>> right? And so,
15:54>> you know, that's what I I would see the
15:56the largest difference between the
15:58larger clients that we have, the more
15:59accredited and I don't want to say um I
16:03would just say it's different levels of
16:04financial education, right? People that
16:06are just getting into investing, they
16:08tend to be a bit more hypy uh and they
16:11FOMO into things and they get excited
16:12very easily. And there's nothing wrong
16:13with that. Uh, but they tend to have a a
16:16shorter term mindset than somebody
16:18that's more established, been in the
16:20market, understands cycles, and been
16:22doing this for 10 or 20 years,
16:23>> right? Have you ever had anybody walk up
16:25to you and be like, "Man, I put my whole
16:26life savings because of you. You told me
16:28this and you said it was going to go to
16:30a thousand and in 30 days and it didn't
16:33hit."
16:34>> There there have been people that have
16:35been upset and rightly so, you know. Um,
16:38but again, I have my convictions and and
16:42I don't give anybody financial advice. I
16:44come on and I explain what my thesis is
16:46and how what things have to happen in
16:48order for that to play out. And it is a
16:50perfect storm scenario. Like, I don't I
16:52don't make any bones about that. So, you
16:55know, if if you have if you don't have
16:57the disposable income and you're betting
16:59your rent money on this, I would rethink
17:02your investment thesis. I I would
17:04probably I would implore people to and
17:07this is what I think you tell a lot of
17:08people do. Invest in yourself.
17:09>> Absolutely.
17:10>> Generate figure out how to make more
17:12income so that you have enough to be
17:14able to supply your lifestyle and then
17:17the additional money that you have
17:19that's not needed right now, you can
17:20plant seeds with that and invest it,
17:22>> right? I mean, obviously, you know, the
17:24the model with with people that have
17:26been down the road before is you just
17:27let it sit. You know, it's like, hey,
17:29you're investing
17:30>> or average down, you know, right? Like
17:32if you had the conviction to buy it at
17:33$2, you should love it at a dollar.
17:35>> Yeah. Right. So buy more.
17:37>> That's it. Everything's on sale. That's
17:39what it that's what it is. But um you
17:42know, so let's uh take a look a little
17:44bit about some of the things of what
17:45Jake said
17:46>> and some of the things that actually
17:48happened. Yep. Okay. So we're just going
17:49to kind of go through here. You had
17:51mentioned you don't own any stocks at
17:53that time. Are you still in the same
17:54position?
17:55>> Same position.
17:56>> So you you just XRP. You went all in.
17:58You got Do you have anything besides
17:59XRP? Well, I have the equity in the
18:00companies that I own. And then we also
18:02have um some private equity investments
18:04that we've done. And then I bought um a
18:06little bit of hash. So it's a flyer. I
18:09put like two grand in it. I bought that
18:10higher than where it is. It was at 2
18:12cents when I bought it.
18:13>> Um it's Provenence Blockchains token.
18:16>> And so I was doing I put together a
18:19video maybe a little bit after we did
18:20our podcast on the total addressable
18:23market cap for different financial
18:24products and sectors. Mhm.
18:26>> And when I was doing that research, I
18:28was looking for tokenization of
18:29insurance and I was like, surely
18:31somebody's doing this. And sure enough,
18:34there's about $450 million worth of life
18:36insurance tokenized on Provence. And I
18:38was like, okay,
18:39>> yeah, you nailed that one.
18:40>> Total total addressable market cap um of
18:43that entire sector is 8 well when I when
18:47I researched it was like 8.61 trillion
18:50about 30 to$50 billion transacted daily
18:53in that vertical. So like 0.000047%
18:58of some of that's been tokenized on
19:00chain,
19:01>> right?
19:02>> It reminded me of XDC when I got into
19:05that in 2020. Uh I had to it's not
19:08listed on other exchanges. There's only
19:09a couple places you can buy it and I
19:12kind of had to go around my butt to get
19:13the XDC. I had to buy ETH and send it
19:15over to this weird wallet and then
19:17convert it into XDC and you couldn't do
19:19anything with it. It just sat there. Um,
19:21but it went from 300s of a penny all the
19:23way up to nine cents in that bull run,
19:26which I sold out at a penny. I should
19:27have gone a little bit longer, but
19:31anyway, it has a lot of those same
19:33things. And so I thought, okay, you
19:35know, throw a little bit of money at
19:36this. It's a flyer for me. It's not
19:38anywhere close to my main position. Uh,
19:40but that's the only other crypto that
19:41that I've made an investment in. And
19:43then, like I said, few few early stage
19:45private equity companies and then the
19:47equity I have in in my company.
19:49>> Why not the S&P? When you see the S&P up
19:51eight and a half percent already this
19:53year, you know, with with things being
19:55as bullish and as bad as it is and
19:57they're still boom climbing, do you sit
19:59there and scratch your head and go,
20:00maybe I need to rethink this?
20:02>> Not at all.
20:02>> No, no regrets.
20:04>> Not at all. So, the PE ratio and the
20:06Buffett indicator are at all-time highs.
20:09Uh, if you look at the PE ratio on
20:11stocks, especially tech stocks, uh,
20:13we're at like 24, 25, 26, the highest
20:17it's ever been. So, I like to invest at
20:20a fair value or a discounted value on PE
20:23ratios. So, I'm looking for somewhere
20:25between 13 and 16 on a PE ratio, and
20:28that's when I would enter the stock
20:29market. We haven't seen that at all
20:31since you and I spoke last on on the
20:33podcast.
20:33>> Uh, so when we do get the pullback in
20:35the stock market, when the reverse carry
20:36trade unwinds,
20:38>> I I think that there will definitely be
20:39opportunities. I I could see the stock
20:41mark market coming down 30 to 50% in a
20:44very short period of time. Yeah, I I
20:45said 25% myself. Like it's gonna happen.
20:48>> Yeah, there's gonna be big.
20:50>> Don't commit suicide if you're out there
20:51and you see it happening. It's okay.
20:54It'll turn.
20:54>> It'll be up into the right. You know,
20:56like I would rather rip the band-aid off
20:58and get it over quick and then have a
21:00V-bottom recovery. Yeah. Versus what we
21:02saw in '08 was a long drawn out, you
21:05know, blood bath for a couple years and
21:07that really ate people up, especially if
21:09they were close to retirement.
21:10>> Right. That's true. um you know so
21:13clients holding 500k to 5 million in
21:16crypto
21:17>> is going to go a 100 times in the very
21:19near future
21:21obviously XRP is down 43% how do you
21:24still feel about that statement that you
21:26made
21:26>> I mean I consider near future within a
21:28year and we're still within that time
21:30frame
21:31>> you were talking a month you were like
21:32by the end of the year at the December
21:33you were like hey before the
21:34>> first there was an event that occurred
21:36close to the end of the year they they
21:38invaded Venezuela
21:40um was not the event that I was I was
21:43hoping for, but I I think that they
21:44needed to do that in order to shore up
21:46oil resources here in the US before some
21:49of the other things could take place,
21:51which have unfolded since then. Um, but
21:53it has taken significantly longer than I
21:56was I was hoping,
21:57>> right?
21:58>> I think everybody was hoping,
21:59>> of course. Of course. But it's funny
22:01because you still stay the course,
22:02>> right?
22:03>> And you know, you haven't wavered. I
22:05mean, you're still saying it's going to
22:06go to a thousand, you know, in time it's
22:08going to go to a thousand. Do you feel
22:10100% confident in that?
22:12>> There's no way it it can't in order to
22:14be able to facilitate the use case that
22:16I believe it's going to be the capacity
22:17I believe it's going to be used in. And
22:21I also don't know. So, Japan's a big
22:24piece of this.
22:26>> They're a huge proponent of XRP. Yoshi
22:28Taka Katau is the principal there at
22:30SBI. SBI owns 10% of Ripple, 10% of R3,
22:34and they're one of the largest
22:35institutions there in Japan. they they
22:38want to see full adoption of this and in
22:41order for that to happen even David
22:43Schwarz came out a little bit earlier
22:45earlier this year and he people asked
22:47him they said well why haven't we seen
22:48the adoption is it because of the
22:50regulation and he said no it's not
22:51because of the regulation XRP has
22:53clarity it's because of the volatility
22:54of the asset and they don't want to hold
22:57it on their balance sheet just you know
22:59a same reason here people are down 30 40
23:0150%
23:03an institution that's managing other
23:05people's money they they don't like that
23:06volat volatility,
23:07>> right?
23:08>> Or or to have that on their own balance
23:10sheet. So, it needs to be a high stable
23:12value and then they'll be happy with the
23:15risk because there won't be much at that
23:16point.
23:17>> Um, and for it to have that type of
23:20liquidity and also stability, if you
23:23look at the the indexes, it takes
23:26trillions of dollars to move them
23:28significantly one way or the other,
23:31right? So,
23:31>> say say that again. Say that one more
23:33time to the viewers. [laughter]
23:35If you look at the indexes, it takes
23:37trillions of dollars to move them, you
23:39know, 5 10% either direction. And people
23:42talk about the market cap for XRP and
23:43they're like, ah, it can't be, you know,
23:45greater than the GDP of the whole globe,
23:47right? But if it was, how stable would
23:51that be? Like how much money would have
23:53to move one way or the other in order to
23:55dep you know down or up? It's a lot of
23:59money.
24:00>> Sure. So at that's the point in which
24:02we'll see you know stability for this
24:04token and I think institutions will be
24:06very comfortable holding it on their
24:07balance sheet.
24:08>> You know you talk about liquidity go
24:10ahead and explain to to some of the
24:11viewers there's some a lot of younger
24:12viewers in fact some some here in the
24:14house today that probably don't really
24:16even understand you know what liquidity
24:17really means how important that is if
24:20they're buying some crypto.
24:21>> Well so so
24:23crypto is extremely liquid in comparison
24:26to other financial products. If you were
24:29to invest in a fund, I mean, most of the
24:31time it's a lockup for one year. If it's
24:33private equity, it could be longer than
24:34that. Um, private credit funds, there's
24:38all these different things that the
24:39Securities and Exchange Commission has
24:41done a good job of gating things and
24:42putting guard rails around stuff so that
24:44they are illquid, so that people can't
24:46get emotional and pull things out and
24:48cause friction or or problems in the
24:50financial system. Stocks are pretty
24:52liquid. I mean, they settle T+1 now, so
24:57you can trade that. It feels real time
24:59if you're trading it on Weeble or Robin
25:01Hood or one of these others, but it
25:02actually isn't real time. They still
25:04wait and settle at the end of the day.
25:06And so, until it's T plus zero, it's
25:09still not as liquid as crypto because
25:11crypto is instant.
25:12>> Right.
25:12>> Right. But when we talk about liquidity
25:14in a token,
25:17Bitcoin has the most liquidity of any
25:19digital asset. You look at the total
25:20market cap of it, we're, you know, a
25:22little over a trillion dollars. It's
25:24still not anywhere as liquid as it would
25:27need to be in order to to settle the
25:29back end of markets. Um, you would need
25:33a lot of liquidity there because the
25:36daily volume on those is somewhere
25:38between five and six trillion dollars
25:39for the back end of the stock market or
25:41FX or commodities. So 1.6 trillion or
25:45wherever it's at today, that's not even
25:47close. you you probably want somewhere
25:49between five and t times that amount of
25:51liquidity in a token to be able to
25:53facilitate because you need a buffer,
25:55right? And the market cap isn't actually
25:58the liquidity that's available in a
26:00token. It is a representation of how
26:02many outstanding shares there are versus
26:05the price. So
26:08I could I could launch Jake token. Okay.
26:12I go get it listed on an exchange. I
26:15let's say
26:15>> like Trump did.
26:16>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly like Trump did.
26:18Yeah.
26:19>> And let's say let's say I issue a
26:20billion Jake token. Okay. My mom buys it
26:23for a dollar. There's one trade for a
26:25dollar on an exchange. And I'm
26:26simplifying this.
26:27>> Sure.
26:28>> But what would be the the market cap of
26:30my token? If there's a billion tokens
26:32and my mom bought one for $1.
26:34>> Yeah.
26:35>> What do you think?
26:36>> Well, there's a billion of them.
26:37>> It'd be a billion dollar. Yeah. My
26:39market cap of my token, even though one
26:41person's put $1 in it,
26:42>> right?
26:43>> It's now a billion dollar market cap.
26:45And so I'm extrapolating that a little
26:48bit just to make it simple for people,
26:50but that doesn't mean the liquidity is
26:51there to be able to actually do anything
26:53with.
26:54>> Well, and that's the problem, too,
26:54because if I bought all billion coins
26:57and I own all billion, what is it worth
27:00to me,
27:00>> right?
27:01>> It's only worth if I could sell it to
27:03somebody for more than a than a billion
27:05at that point in time.
27:06>> Yeah, you need a market.
27:06>> If I hold it all, then it's it's no
27:08good.
27:08>> You you need a marketplace. And that's
27:10why, you know, a lot of people get
27:11frustrated with founders of these
27:12tokens. They own 40, 50, 60% of the
27:15supply and they sell a portion of it
27:16onto the market and some other people
27:17hold some, but they they can rug people.
27:20We've seen that over and over again.
27:22They sell 10, 20, 30% of what they hold
27:25all at one time. Boom, the liquidity is
27:28gone out of that token. So, you you need
27:31something that's robust, has a lot of
27:33people participating in the same
27:35ecosystem or on the same protocol, and
27:38isn't beholden to one counterparty. And
27:40people would say, you know, we behold it
27:42to Ripple because they have so much of
27:43it. They they have an escrow and in that
27:47escrow they release 1 billion per month.
27:50They don't put the full billion on the
27:52market. They never have. They've always
27:54taken a portion of it and reescroed it
27:56on the end of that escrow. And they put
27:58about 300 million onto the market. And
28:00they do sell that to fund their
28:01business. I don't I don't make any bones
28:03about that. But if you wanted to get
28:05full adoption for something and you
28:06needed to make acquisitions and grow
28:08business partnerships and you know get
28:10the inroads and build all the
28:12infrastructure for something, you need a
28:14way to fund it,
28:15>> right? Yeah.
28:16>> And and as long as you're not tanking
28:18the price, maybe you're using that
28:19escrow to modulate the price and hold
28:22price stability so that you can trial it
28:25in the capacity that it's going to be
28:27used eventually. I I think it makes a
28:29lot of sense.
28:30>> Yeah. You know, see, Bitcoin's come down
28:32quite a bit. You think it's going to
28:33continue to drop below 50?
28:35>> I do. Um, we've got these treasury
28:38companies that are shutting down. So, we
28:40had the ETFs and these Treasury
28:42companies. People say this time's
28:44different. This time is really
28:46different. If you even if you look at
28:47the market cycle, Bitcoin was at an
28:50all-time high before the having, which
28:52has never happened before in any of the
28:54previous cycles for crypto. So, this
28:56time is different. Uh, but it's pretty
28:59close. like it's followed the fractals
29:01from previous cycles and it's it's down
29:04uh less than it's been in previous
29:06cycles.
29:07>> However, the onchain losses at this
29:09point have hit the same points. So,
29:11there's there's a lot of markers that
29:13show that we are at the bottom here, you
29:15know, in in late July of 2026. Uh but
29:19with these treasury companies shutting
29:21down, you got pressure on Michael Sailor
29:23to sell Bitcoin in order to meet the
29:24dividend for the product that he's put
29:26out to market.
29:28There's there's a lot of headwinds for
29:30Bitcoin and now that energy prices are
29:32up because of oil and the conflict in
29:34the Middle East, there's less miners out
29:37there. It's not as profitable to be
29:38doing that. And now we've seen a lot of
29:40that infrastructure get pivoted toward
29:41AI and compute on that side.
29:44>> So, if that trend continues, I think
29:46that you're going to continue to see a
29:48consolidation of the miners. Um, these
29:50treasury companies are selling off all
29:52of their Bitcoin in order to repay their
29:54investors and getting out of the market.
29:57I could see it fall all the way to
29:59somewhere between 19 and 20,000.
30:01>> Really?
30:02>> And I will buy it then.
30:02>> I was gonna say, are you going to buy it
30:04then? Will you get in?
30:05>> I would buy it then.
30:06>> See, you know, it's kind of hard because
30:07when you sit there and you think, well,
30:09it cost you 19,000 even at that price
30:12for one bitcoin, right?
30:13>> You could buy 19,000 XRPs.
30:17>> Well, I think when Bitcoin's that price,
30:18XRP will be a very different price.
30:20>> Yeah. Okay. Well, that would be nice.
30:22Talk about AI a little bit because you
30:23brought that up. you know, are you
30:24worried about AI and how that's going to
30:26affect, you know, the financial part of
30:28it all and and and what their people are
30:30using for that?
30:31>> Not at all. I'm super excited about it.
30:33Um, the agentic economy is going to be
30:36orders of magnitude larger than the
30:39human economy. Um, if they talked to
30:42Elon about it the other day and
30:44everybody has their opinions on Elon.
30:45>> Hi, I'm Phil Benamino, CEO and founder
30:47of Cost Plus Processing, the company
30:49that provides financial services [music]
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31:09Our objection is to actually teach you
31:11and educate you about the costs that
31:13you're currently paying and show you
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32:59I don't care what you think of him. The
33:02man is a genius.
33:03>> You know what I'm saying? The man is a
33:05genius and he doesn't have to do any of
33:07the things that he's doing. He wants to
33:09make the world a better place and make
33:11things better and and he's I mean, come
33:13on. You can't deny him that. It's It's
33:16like you like listen, you weren't right
33:18about all your stuff, but you can't deny
33:20the fact you have the knowledge, okay?
33:22And you believe wholeheartedly in it.
33:24You're not some fake just throwing
33:26things out there to to get some views or
33:28get some people to, hey, join my company
33:30and sign up with me because I, you know,
33:32I'm the greatest. No, you know, you've
33:34done your homework.
33:34>> Well, I legitimately want to help
33:36people.
33:37>> Yeah. And and it comes across. You're
33:38very authentic.
33:39>> Elon, I feel, is the same way. He's he's
33:42he's on a mission. His mission's not
33:44over.
33:45>> No, [laughter] it's definitely not.
33:47>> You know,
33:47>> but um where I was headed with that was
33:51um he said that the economy, the GDP of
33:55the world as it sits today will be 10
33:57times larger conservatively in 10 years.
34:00That is an extreme amount of growth. We
34:02have diminishing birth rates. We're not
34:05going to be able to handle social
34:07security. Like, we're going to run out
34:09of money. We We need some way to be able
34:11to generate significant amounts of value
34:14in society and grow GDP that's not
34:16predicated on capita or or people doing
34:20things. And the only way that's going to
34:21happen is the adoption and proliferation
34:24of AI at scale. And we've seen
34:27Mastercard and lease and and Visa lean
34:29into that. We've seen, you know, all of
34:32these other companies. People are
34:33throwing tons of money behind AI. And I
34:35do think it's a bubble. I do think that
34:37there's some bubble to this right now.
34:38We've seen, you know, Anthropic and and
34:41Open AI. SpaceX acquired Cursor for $60
34:44billion. Some of these valuations are
34:46frothy. Um, and I do think there will be
34:49a pullback.
34:49>> I personally don't think there'll be a
34:50pullback. I think it's going to keep
34:51growing. I think SpaceX is the real
34:53thing. Anthropic 2, three, I mean,
34:56they're still growing. I think what
34:57they're doing is spot on, you know what
34:59I mean? Like, and it's something that's
35:01like if you're not if you're not messing
35:02with it, you better,
35:03>> you know, because you're going to be
35:04left in the dark if not.
35:06>> I would I would understand it, right?
35:08I'm not saying it to invest in it, but
35:09definitely understand the implications
35:11that it's going to have on things. So,
35:14uh, with with all that being said, I I
35:16think that we're in for significant
35:18growth. I do think that we're we have to
35:20pull leverage out of the system
35:21>> and they've got to shore up currencies
35:23and and restructure the debt on things.
35:26But on the other side of that, I'm I'm
35:28super optimistic for the implementation
35:29of AI.
35:30>> Do you think it's going to affect the
35:31financial advisors and that type of the
35:33>> Oh, it already is.
35:34>> Yeah. I mean, so yeah, a lot of people
35:36are concerned about that, you know,
35:37losing their jobs.
35:38>> Well, that's fair. Um, so, you know, I
35:40would just point to the internet.
35:42>> Um, a lot of people lost their jobs to
35:43the internet,
35:44>> right? But how many more jobs did it
35:46create,
35:47>> right?
35:47>> There's there's like we're on a podcast.
35:50If you had told somebody 30 years ago
35:52that this would be a thing and people
35:53would be watching this on YouTube,
35:54right? And social media was going to be
35:56the craze and and how you were going to
35:58connect with people, they would have
35:59looked at you like you had a third eye,
36:01right? Like they they wouldn't have
36:02understood it.
36:03>> There's going to be things that AI
36:04brings to the forefront that we don't
36:06even know about today that generate
36:08significant, you know, I I think also
36:11you're going to have a higher standard
36:12of living because of all this. Um it's
36:15significantly deflationary. So we we
36:17anytime we've had introductions of
36:19significant, you know, changes in
36:21technology, the industrial revolution as
36:23an example, things got cheaper and and
36:26that's what's going to happen with this
36:27too. They need a way to be able to
36:29reduce the cost of production on things,
36:31reduce the cost of development. Have you
36:33done any vibe coding?
36:35>> I haven't. No, but my my my office has,
36:37>> dude.
36:38>> Yeah, it is.
36:38>> I got my developers working on some
36:40>> the wildest thing that I have ever seen.
36:42>> Really?
36:43>> Yeah. So, you know, we've been working
36:44on software. I've been developing
36:45software for about 5 years. I'm not a
36:47coder.
36:48>> Uhhuh. Right. Me neither.
36:49>> We've just worked with teams.
36:50>> But now everybody's a coder
36:51>> literally
36:52>> because you can do it.
36:53>> Yeah. You if as long as you can set it
36:55up the right way, you can tell it what
36:56you want it to build. When Fable came
36:58out before they took it down, you could
37:00say, "Hey, build me a direct
37:02representation of eBay, but don't
37:04violate any copyright laws
37:06>> or IP infringement, right?" And it would
37:08do it.
37:09>> Do it.
37:09>> So like SAS is gonna be completely
37:12disintermediated. It's going to be wild.
37:15And and imagine, you know, I we've been
37:18working on software a long time, like I
37:19said, to I I I vibe coded an app in two
37:24weeks that would have taken our team
37:26somewhere between eight and nine months
37:29and about a million dollars worth of
37:31>> and the quasa would have been
37:32>> and it's it's 99% of the way there.
37:34they've got to QC it and and you know
37:36make sure that the backend and security
37:38and cloud and all the stuff is done
37:39right but like the coding's done
37:42>> right
37:43>> so just the cost of things and the
37:46production on this stuff is going to
37:48come way down and I think it's going to
37:49provide people
37:51>> a huge benefit like literally anybody
37:53can build an application and launch it
37:55now right
37:56>> whereas before you would have had to
37:57hire an agency or a team and employ them
38:00and you know all all the other stuff and
38:02costs that go along with it
38:03>> because one of our guest guest actually
38:04that's here today actually coded an an
38:07app that he was just talking about prior
38:09to to the show. Um and we'll let him
38:12talk about it is Sean. Sean's here in
38:14the house. Hi Sean. How you doing man?
38:16[laughter]
38:17>> Good. So um want to go ahead and
38:19introduce you. You know Jay Clayver you
38:21had some questions obviously you know
38:22you're a big follower. We appreciate you
38:24following him as well as ourselves here
38:26at WAMBBAN podcast. Um tell them a
38:28little about some questions you had on
38:30your mind.
38:30>> Uh first question comes around the NDAs.
38:32I think we all know that there's
38:34thousands of NDAs. I think there's like
38:351,700 NDAs over the last uh I think a
38:39lot of us have been waiting for land
38:40falls to draw the report that there's
38:42going to be zero for change, right? And
38:43I think we're all looking for that. So
38:46can you give me any insight into know
38:48when you see some of those starting to
38:49come visible to the public?
38:51>> I think that those have a couple
38:52different things around them. Some of
38:54them may be time constrained. NDAs can
38:57be predicated on a lot of things.
38:58They're kind of like a safe agreement.
38:59So there's a trigger where, you know,
39:02they're no longer valid, right?
39:03Sometimes that's a time frame, sometimes
39:04it's an event when something's announced
39:06or or something happens. I I think so,
39:09and this is speculation, right? I don't
39:12have any direct information on this, but
39:14but the escrow, I believe that there are
39:16a lot of pre-negotiated contracts with
39:18companies where they have options on the
39:20escrow or at least whatever wallet, you
39:22know, however much XRP is in. And and
39:23once those are released, I think at that
39:25point, a lot of these NDAs will then be
39:27disclosed. DTCC the tokenization right
39:30so we heard they just recently partnered
39:32with XLM which is which we all love as
39:34well so when do you think we'll start to
39:36see some priceiation just with the
39:38utility of it and fe
39:40>> that arrangement between the DTCC and
39:43Stellar supposed to go live in early
39:442027 um we just saw um toward the end of
39:50last month actually it's be the the
39:52middle of this month I think it was on
39:54the 15th or the 18th they they rolled
39:56out the reconcili ation component on
39:59chain with the DTCC and they tokenized
40:02QQQ and ASBY and that's their beta. Uh
40:05October of this year is full
40:07implementation for the DTCC and last
40:11year I was at Swell and got to listen to
40:13Monica Long interview the pre the
40:15president of NASDAQ and she said that
40:17the first place that they would be
40:19utilizing distributed ledger technology
40:20is exactly in that capacity uh for
40:22reconciliation and settlement before the
40:25tokenization of the stock market. And
40:27so, you know, if if October's go live,
40:30then I would think that they would have
40:32to have settlement in place before then.
40:35>> So then we'd see it and fill it, which
40:36would be great. You use that. [laughter]
40:38>> Yeah. At the same time, also that ties
40:40in ono. So, it's on tokenizing the the
40:42stock market.
40:44>> You've got a bunch of different players
40:46in the market. You got Securitize, you
40:47got Onondo, you got, you know, Stellar
40:49like you mentioned. Um there's Canton
40:52Network. They've partnered with
40:53different exchanges to tokenize the real
40:56world assets or the stocks on those. But
40:58the reconciliation and settlement
41:00component of that is different. You
41:02would still need an oracle like chain
41:03link, which is what I think is going to
41:04be used to be able to facilitate, you
41:07know, the the price feeds from the
41:09traditional stock market into this
41:10tokenized economy and and these markets.
41:13But, you know, you may have Robin Hood
41:15that they launched their own, right,
41:17blockchain. You've got NASDAQ that
41:19announced their partnership. I don't
41:21remember if it was with Securitize or
41:22Ono. Uh New York Stock Exchange is with
41:24somebody else. So there's there's 16
41:26different exchanges uh that all will
41:28probably tokenize through different
41:30counterparties. Uh but they'll all still
41:32settle back to the XRPL.
41:33>> I'm curious about your patience and
41:35commitment, right? So like I think all
41:36of us, I've been in this since 2019. Um
41:40we see the ups and downs of it. Uh we
41:42all experienced everything that happened
41:44with the SEC. We all look at this and
41:46and feel like the market's manipulated
41:49or something and it is. I mean, somebody
41:51um um so how do you stay impatient like
41:54oh everybody?
41:56>> That's a great question.
41:57>> You know, um I I kind of
42:00>> when all the heat's on you.
42:01>> Well, I just I dig into the business,
42:03right? So, for me, there's all these
42:05things that I want to have in place when
42:07this happens and it it's kind of been a
42:09blessing and a curse. if if this had
42:11happened at the end of last year,
42:12there's so many things that we've been
42:13able to develop over the last seven
42:14months that wouldn't wouldn't have been
42:16a reality uh for our clients. And so
42:18that's what I tend to focus on is what
42:21can I actually do today that moves the
42:23needle and, you know, puts us in a
42:25better position when this does happen.
42:27And and I think that would probably be
42:29beneficial for other people to do as
42:31well. You probably do this yourself.
42:32Sounds like you're viing some stuff and
42:33and like working on things that are
42:35going to be you're just going to pour
42:36gas on the fire post PA, right? And so
42:39that's what I try to do. You know, I
42:40hunker down. It's not that like I don't
42:41look at the price every day like
42:43everybody else does, but at the same
42:45time, I you have to live in reality.
42:47You've got your conviction on this. You
42:50believe that it's going to be
42:51implemented. And so, but what can I do
42:53today to actually move the needle for
42:55myself? Can can I take a course? Can I
42:58build something? All of those things are
43:00kind of what I try to focus on. And
43:02that's what pushes the time by in in the
43:04meantime. You mentioned the local
43:07legislations there on the US. What about
43:10worldwide?
43:11>> Oh yeah, they're moving. Nigeria just
43:13announced their clarity act around
43:16digital assets in their economy. Russia
43:18has moved forward with their
43:19legislation. Japan's move forward with
43:21their legislation around digital assets.
43:23Uh we we are going to get left behind if
43:25we don't move.
43:26>> And you also mentioned the the PE ratio
43:29for the S&P 500 which is definitely
43:31historically high. Is there a ratio or a
43:35measure for XRP?
43:37>> I actually wrote a whole white paper on
43:39what I call the liquidity index. And
43:42>> is this in your book?
43:43>> It's it's not in my book.
43:44>> Okay.
43:44>> Uh it it was a a PDF that we we put out
43:47uh a little while ago, but it it
43:49includes five different factors and and
43:51and how that ratio is comprised in order
43:54to be able to look at the liquidity in
43:56an asset that's for that because there
43:58tokens aren't all for liquidity and
44:00settlement. There are some tokens that
44:02are governance tokens for voting rights
44:04and participation in ecosystems. You
44:06have NFTTS which are a direct
44:07representation of things. There's
44:09there's a lot of different types of
44:11tokens that are out there and they all
44:13have value in some capacity. Uh but if
44:15you're looking at something that moves
44:16value, I think the liquidity index that
44:18I put together is probably the remote
44:20the most robust model for valuing that
44:23type of token.
44:24>> We got 17year-old in the house. We got
44:26Oh, we got a youngster here. Baseball
44:28player. Okay. Stud. He's planning on
44:31going pro one day. I'm sure he's got a
44:33few questions cuz he's throwing some
44:34things at me and I'm like, give him the
44:36Jake.
44:36>> What What advice would you give to like
44:38the younger generation who's trying to
44:39get into like digital assets?
44:42>> Congratulations on being 17 years old
44:44and even thinking about this stuff.
44:45[laughter]
44:46I you know at 17 I wasn't even a thought
44:48in my mind. Financial education, right?
44:51So I you guys know who Patrick Bet David
44:53is, I'm sure. Okay.
44:55>> Next I'm going to be with him next
44:56month.
44:56>> Oh, beautiful. So value tamement. I'
44:58I've watched Patrick for a long time.
45:00One, YouTube, right? Like, so you
45:02probably found me on there. You you
45:04probably find Wham Bam on there. Find
45:06other people that you can aspire to be
45:07like and that you hold in a high regard
45:09and listen to what they say and learn
45:11from them. Like, I think that that's
45:12probably the best way to spend your time
45:14if you're a young person looking to
45:17develop yourself and put yourself in a
45:19good position and understanding
45:20financial education because you're not
45:22taught in school. Like, they don't teach
45:23you any of this stuff in school. If
45:25you're going to be successful, if you do
45:26plan on having money or generating value
45:28in society at scale, you need to be able
45:30to deploy it and manage it and
45:32understand how all of this functions
45:34because if you don't know the rules of
45:35the game, you're going to lose. So, you
45:37know, if if I could go back and be 17
45:39years old again, uh I would buy Bitcoin.
45:42[laughter]
45:43>> There you go. Of course. Of course,
45:44knowing what you know now.
45:46>> That was that was 2009 when it was when
45:48it was rolled out. Uh so, you know, that
45:50would have been a really good one, but I
45:51didn't have a ton of money back then
45:52either. and and I really, you know,
45:54personal development has been probably
45:57the the highest focus and the largest
45:59return I've seen in my life. I' I've
46:01paid a lot more money than I was
46:02comfortable with to be in rooms I didn't
46:03belong in and get around people that
46:05that were in positions that I would
46:07aspire to be in. Um, and that's helped
46:10me more than anything else over the
46:11past, you know, 5 10 years.
46:12>> You know, what is the biggest lie you
46:14think Americans are told about money?
46:16>> Um, that it's in the bank.
46:17>> Yeah. [laughter]
46:19>> Should you keep money in the bank? Well,
46:21you know, you're insured up to 250,000
46:24if the FDIC would cover it if there were
46:26losses.
46:27>> Yeah.
46:27>> You want your money working for you in
46:29some capacity, and everybody has
46:31different risk parameters. Some people
46:33are very conservative. If you don't need
46:35the money right now, and you do want it
46:38working for you in some way, a lot of
46:39people buy gold and silver, and you
46:41know, I I had that I sold my gold and
46:43silver uh earlier this year closer to
46:46the top
46:46>> because I thought, you know, I think I
46:48still think coming down now. I think
46:49gold's going to come back to around
46:512,2100.
46:53>> Uh I told everybody silver's pulling
46:54back to 50 and here we are at 5657.
46:58>> You know, I I think that you know that's
46:59a store of value. So if if you want to
47:02maintain your purchasing power, that's a
47:04good way to do it. The S&P 500 is also a
47:07really good way to maintain your
47:08purchasing power. I think that it keeps
47:10up with inflation, real inflation, not
47:13what the Fed says or the CP lie. So, you
47:16know, those are two great ways to be
47:17able to maintain your purchasing power
47:19of whenever you got the money, but to be
47:20able to grow your money and and do
47:22better than inflation, you're probably
47:24going to have to take more risk with
47:26that than sitting it in a money market
47:28earning five or 6%. So, we work with
47:30people that have a lot of money to
47:32manage. Uh we we deal with their crypto
47:34portfolio and the way that they
47:36structure their portfolios if they are
47:38managing billions of dollars, somewhere
47:40between 20 and 30% of that are in very
47:42liquid instruments. So, treasury bills,
47:44bonds, cash, cash equivalents, that
47:47type. So that if they do have an
47:49opportunity that they want to take
47:50advantage of, they have the liquidity to
47:52do it. And then they get into more
47:53illquid assets with the rest of their
47:54portfolio. The other, you know, call it
47:5670%. Oftentimes, a large portion of
47:58that's in real estate, somewhere between
48:0015 25%, if they made their money in real
48:02estate, then maybe it's a lot more than
48:04that. Um, private equity is always a
48:06component of it for the most part. There
48:08are a few people that play upstream in
48:11that market. So, they're looking for
48:12things that are closer to IPO with a
48:14shorter time horizon. You know, still
48:15have some some meat left on the bone.
48:18You know, if you'd got in SpaceX a few
48:20years ago and then sold at the IPO, you
48:22about doubled your money. It's not bad
48:24in a couple years and that would have
48:26done better than inflation. Sure.
48:27>> Right. But it is a higher risk deal,
48:29>> but it's timing and if you're trying to
48:31time the market, you know, you're
48:33gambling at at the end of the day. And
48:35that's why I try to teach, you know, I
48:36teach these younger kids and um and if
48:39you haven't bought my book, you can go
48:40and money management for beginners. Good
48:42opportunity on Amazon, okay? It's the
48:44best $20 you'll ever spend. But the
48:46reality is, you know, younger
48:48generations, if they just put 300 bucks
48:50a month away into an S&P, into a into an
48:53index fund and not have to worry about
48:54it, it's like you own 500 of the biggest
48:56companies out there. Yeah. You got
48:58nothing rotates, right? And then if you
48:59want to take a fly, you got a little bit
49:00extra cash, you want to buy some crypto,
49:02you want to buy some things,
49:03>> go ahead. But don't don't don't count on
49:05it, right? And when it hits,
49:07>> cool,
49:07>> you know, great.
49:08>> Yeah. [laughter]
49:09>> But
49:09>> well, and and maybe 15 to 20% of
49:13people's portfolios are on the high risk
49:14side. So to your point, you know, if if
49:17you were going to use that same
49:18structure for call it your extra 300
49:20bucks a month, you might be throwing,
49:23you know, 20 to 50 bucks in crypto.
49:25>> Right. Exactly.
49:26>> And and the rest
49:27>> It doesn't sound like a lot. Well, for
49:29like a 17-year-old when he's 60, look
49:32what that number's going to be.
49:33>> Right. Well, and so what's the eighth
49:34wonder of the world? It's compound
49:36interest. There you go. Right.
49:37>> Yeah.
49:37>> Um, so it's not about timing the market.
49:40It's about time in the market.
49:42>> Exactly. And that's the whole thing
49:43that's like just get started. Yeah.
49:45>> And you know what? There's not a certain
49:47time. Some people's like, "Oh, I'm too
49:49old. I missed it. You know, I'm 40. I'm
49:5150 years old. I can't." No. Get in. Just
49:54start. It's like, just start. That's
49:57what it takes. You know what I mean?
49:58People people find all kinds of excuses
50:01not to not to try. You know, they're a
50:03it's just going to go down anyway or
50:05nothing works out for me. The things
50:07that you speak over yourself is what
50:09happens in reality.
50:10>> Yeah.
50:11>> So, if if you want good things to happen
50:14to you, you have to start talking
50:15positively to yourself and, you know,
50:17putting that out in the universe,
50:19>> right? All right. So, this is the time
50:20where we do our rapid fire questions,
50:22baby. We got some new ones for you
50:24today. All right. You ready for this?
50:25>> Yes, sir.
50:26>> All right. Here we go. Gold or Bitcoin?
50:28>> Gold. Real estate or crypto?
50:29>> These are today.
50:30>> We're talking today.
50:30>> Okay. Real estate or crypto.
50:32>> Stocks or private equity?
50:33>> Private equity.
50:34>> Biggest bubble today.
50:35>> AI.
50:35>> One investment everyone should own.
50:37>> XRP.
50:39>> I was waiting for it. It took you long
50:41to come up with that answer.
50:43>> Again, I don't want to give people
50:44financial advice on stuff, you know, but
50:46for me, if I if again, I'm just speaking
50:48for myself. That would be the one that I
50:51I think has the least amount of risk
50:53personally.
50:53>> One investment everyone should avoid?
50:55>> Tether.
50:56>> What's Tether? It's a stable coin. Ah,
50:58>> the largest stable coin.
51:00>> Okay. Okay. That's right. We talked. All
51:01right. Um, and I was That brings me back
51:03to the banks because you had mentioned
51:04that prior to about the Banks of America
51:07and them going to get into stable coins,
51:09but that didn't really happen either.
51:11>> Not yet.
51:11>> Not yet.
51:12>> Yeah. We we've seen we've seen Fidelity
51:14launch their stable coin. We've seen
51:15PayPal launch their stable coin. Uh,
51:17Stripe is launching their stable coin.
51:20Um, Benji Token. There there have been a
51:23few people, but Bank of America came out
51:25and said, you know, until we have
51:26guidance from the OC, we're ready to go.
51:28We have our stable coin, but we're not
51:30going to launch it until we have that.
51:31>> Gotcha. Gotcha. All right. Most
51:34underrated asset,
51:35>> XRP.
51:36>> XRP. Most overrated asset,
51:38>> Bitcoin.
51:39>> Okay. A book everyone should read.
51:41>> The future is faster than you think.
51:44>> Who's Who's that by?
51:45>> Um, I'd have to I I don't remember the
51:47the author's name on that. You you can
51:49look it up on Amazon. came out in 2018
51:512019. It talks about the convergence of
51:54all these different technologies that we
51:55have today. Quantum AI, blockchain,
51:59biotech, 3D printing, and and how they
52:02actually it's like a 1 plus one equals
52:04three type situation.
52:05>> Gotcha. Now, you know, you obviously
52:08worked with a lot of different types of
52:09people. What's the difference between
52:11someone worth say 100,000 and someone
52:13worth a hundred million?
52:15>> Patience is the main deal. I I would
52:17say, you know, people that have a hund00
52:19million dollars, they didn't get there
52:20by being hyped driven. They were
52:24consistent with something over an
52:25extended period of time. They went
52:27through a lot of suffering and agony and
52:29pain and endured that in order to be
52:32able to get a liquidity event in in
52:34whatever they ended up making their
52:35money in. They have more grace around
52:37things, more understanding. They are are
52:41patient and they're not looking for this
52:43to happen tomorrow. it is it's a seed
52:46that they're planting whereas the you
52:47know the $100,000 person they have not
52:50made their wealth yet and there there's
52:52two different modes there too that
52:54there's wealth creation and there's
52:56wealth preservation and those are two
52:58very different skill sets.
53:00>> Yeah.
53:00>> And and that's probably you know when
53:03I'm working with those two different
53:04people the sense of urgency that's on
53:07this side is significantly greater than
53:08somebody that's that's already in a
53:10position where they don't have to worry
53:11about money.
53:12>> Right. Makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot
53:14of sense. All right, last question I
53:16want to ask you. If someone suddenly
53:18made $20 million, like I came up with
53:20$20 million, what are the three things
53:23that they should not do?
53:25>> Lifestyle creep. Uh, within the first
53:27six months, I would just hang out in
53:29your current house, maybe even keep
53:31working your own job that you currently
53:32have and let that money, you know, sit
53:36and I would get good professionals
53:38around you that understand what they're
53:40doing. if you don't have the financial
53:41education. Um, I'm going to speak to it
53:44like it's a lottery winner, right? Like
53:45it's somebody that, you know, they're
53:47working at McDonald's or their Home
53:48Depot or, you know, they're just getting
53:50by and they're paycheck to paycheck and
53:52they come into this amount of money.
53:54That's that's a big change. Um, but like
53:57I said before, wealth creation and
53:59wealth preservation are two very
54:01different skills. And so, if you're
54:03going to stack up a bunch of
54:04liabilities,
54:06eventually that money is going to run
54:07out. You need to be able to put the
54:08money to work and live off the interest
54:10so that you don't touch the principal.
54:12And most people don't do that. Most
54:14people go out and and yolo and buy a
54:17five or 10 million home. They buy the
54:19Ferrari. They don't understand that they
54:21need to own things in an LLC. They get
54:23sued. Somebody they don't understand the
54:25tax implications for that $20 million
54:27and how much they're going to owe Uncle
54:29Sam. And and before you know it, you've
54:31burnt through it in three to five years
54:33and you have to file bankruptcy,
54:35which is horrible, right? like you that
54:37should be a blessing. You should be able
54:39to
54:40manage that for the rest of your life
54:42and set your kids' kids up if you do it
54:44the right way. But a lot of people just
54:47don't have the financial education. So
54:48that would be the other piece. The third
54:49one would be educate yourself. Take take
54:52that six months breathe. It's not going
54:54anywhere. It's it's going to be in your
54:56bank account. It'll be okay. And make
54:59sure that again you're working with good
55:00professionals that can educate you or
55:02seeking out good people like yourself,
55:04reading books like you've written and
55:06and understand what to do with the money
55:08in order to be able to not squander it
55:10and structure it the right way for your
55:11your family.
55:12>> Yeah. Um those are great advice for all
55:14the things you should do. What would you
55:16tell them to stay away from?
55:18>> Buying Lambos and buying a bunch of
55:20liabilities uh immediately. I'm not
55:23saying don't enjoy yourself. Like
55:25everybody has things that they want. You
55:27buy gold like around your neck.
55:28>> Yeah. Well, you know, it's still gold.
55:30>> Nice watch. You know, there's things
55:32that hold their value.
55:33>> Yeah. I I wouldn't immediately go out. I
55:35I would look at buying, you know, a real
55:37estate property that could pay for my
55:39home or a car wash that could pay for my
55:40lease on my car. Um I would not tell
55:44everybody. I would keep it to myself. I
55:46would call my my attorney, my CPA, and
55:49my spouse. And that would be who I would
55:51have the conversation with. Keep it
55:52quiet because if everybody knows,
55:54everybody's going to be hitting you up.
55:55>> Mhm. Um, and I would structure something
55:57that there's a a process and a procedure
56:00for when people do come to you for money
56:01because people are going to find out,
56:03right? Like there's there's going to be
56:04signs.
56:05>> And so, you know, people are going to
56:07be, "Oh, you're doing pretty well. You
56:08know, I need this money for this or I
56:10need this money for that." We help
56:12people structure a financial committee
56:13and a family board when they work at the
56:15family office level. 20 million is
56:17actually the minimum where we start
56:18working with people in that capacity.
56:20And that way, you know, you know, Uncle
56:22Johnny comes to you and he says, "Uh,
56:25you know, I need $100,000. I want to
56:27start this business." You say, "Would
56:28love to give it to you. Please send me
56:30your perspectus and your business plan
56:32and you know, all the documentation
56:34around it. I'll submit it to the board.
56:36If it meets our parameters for risk and
56:38how we're going to invest the money,
56:39we'll make an allocation."
56:41>> And then you're not an [ __ ] You
56:43didn't tell them no. And they don't they
56:45have to give you respect that you've set
56:47a system and process up. Yep.
56:49>> And if they don't, then they probably
56:52weren't your friend or your family
56:53anyway,
56:53>> right? Sure. Everybody's got the hand
56:55out. You know, they're there when things
56:57are great.
56:58>> Yeah.
56:58>> Or they're there when things aren't so
56:59great.
56:59>> Yeah.
57:00>> That's the difference. And that's what I
57:01respect about you, Jake. You know, like
57:03I said, you being here today and and I
57:05know you came in here knowing you're
57:06going to take a little bit of heat, you
57:08know, and stuff. And I'm sure the
57:09viewers are going to throw some stuff at
57:11you. That's okay. But, uh, you know,
57:12you're as real as they come and really
57:14appreciate that.
57:15>> Thank you, man. So, last but not least,
57:17where is XRP going to go in the next
57:19three or four months? Do we have
57:20anything? Do we have any in anything
57:23that you can give us that you think
57:25where it's going to be at? Say by the
57:26end,
57:26>> I put my foot in my mouth at the end on
57:28the last one, so I'm hesitant to give
57:30you anything.
57:31>> Um,
57:32>> what do you feel safe with?
57:34>> You think it's still going to drop?
57:35>> 100 bucks.
57:35>> Is it going to go under a buck?
57:36>> I feel pretty safe with 100 bucks in
57:38that time frame.
57:39>> Yeah.
57:40>> Yeah. So again, you know, we mentioned
57:42the DTCC and the tokenization of the
57:44stock market and and we're at the moment
57:47when the reverse carrier trade is going
57:48to unwind any time now. Like they've
57:50been able to kick the can and kick the
57:51can. They held rates today. Our dollar
57:54continues to appreciate against the yen.
57:56If if Japan doesn't raise interest rates
57:58at this point, their yen's going to
57:59collapse. And if they do raise interest
58:01rates, the reverse carry trade unwinds
58:03and we see all this margin pulled out of
58:04the system. So, you know, in the next 3
58:06to four months, maybe by the end of the
58:08year, um I don't see there's any way
58:11that XRP can't be at least $100
58:15and and facilitating at least a portion
58:17of the settlement for back into the
58:19stock market, FX, commodities, and and
58:21Swift.
58:22>> Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks again, man,
58:24for being here. Really appreciate it.
58:26Any last thing for the viewers?
58:28>> Uh if you want to learn more about what
58:29we do, uh and contact us, we do have a
58:31mastermind group. It's at
58:32beyondbroke.com. We have over 17,000
58:34people there that we provide financial
58:36education for and business resources. Uh
58:38and then on the crypto side, if you have
58:39a significant allocation, whatever that
58:41means for you, uh we'd love to work with
58:43you, help you structure your estate,
58:44mitigate taxes, maybe do wealth
58:46management, and have an account over
58:48there in institutional custody at
58:49Anchorage. Uh and we're rolling out a
58:51lot of products in the next six months
58:52to be able to put your assets to work
58:54for you and create cash flow because
58:56that's the name of the game.
58:57>> So, and all that's at dag.com.
58:59>> Is there a mean is there a minimum there
59:01for that? on on that side of the
59:02business, it's 50,000 XRP or at least
59:04half a million dollars in total
59:06portfolio value.
59:06>> There you go. So, there you have it,
59:08folks. Jake Claver in the house. Told
59:10you right now, XRP is still growing.
59:12Don't get sad. Don't be upset. In fact,
59:14if you want, go and buy some more. And
59:16as your boy Wham Bam always says,
59:18remember, if your life was a movie,
59:19would it be worth watching? And if the
59:21answer is no, stop being ordinary and
59:24start being extraordinary. Till next
59:25Wednesday, baby, stay positive and keep
59:28testing negative.
59:30Down, down, down, down, [music] down,
59:35down, down, down, down. [music]

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