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Jack Herer Wrote a Book About Amanita Muscaria. He Was Murdered for It. — Transcript

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0:00Hello everyone. I'm Randall Carlson. I'm
0:02here in the studio with a special guest.
0:06We've been hanging out together this
0:07weekend. We did a little excursion this
0:09afternoon to go visit some of the
0:11Georgia Indian mounds and that was quite
0:14interesting and uh it was first time
0:16that my guest has seen that particular
0:19set of Indian mounds. So we may talk
0:21about that briefly, but that's not our
0:24main focus of this conversation. Uh my
0:27guest Christian Rasmmanson has uh
0:29launched a company uh and I believe well
0:33I don't know we'll find out from him but
0:34I don't know of anyone else who's doing
0:37what he's doing. I think it's uh what
0:39he's doing is very unique, very
0:41valuable, very important and I think
0:43this conversation is going to be really
0:45interesting. So hang around and uh let's
0:48uh see what we've got to talk about
0:50here. So I would like to introduce
0:52Christian Rasmmanson. He's here right
0:54there in the studio with me. Hi,
0:56Christian.
0:56>> Right here. Thank you, Rand. Yeah, it's
0:58been such a fun weekend, man.
0:59>> It has been a fun weekend.
1:01>> We went out today to the Edoa Indian
1:03Mounds. It was pretty warm out there.
1:06>> It was warm. We got a little breeze
1:07though and a little bit of rain, you
1:09know, which cooled it down a little bit.
1:10Yeah.
1:11>> Yeah. So, the Edeto Indian Mounds is
1:14right about an hour north of of Atlanta,
1:16Georgia. It's a beautiful pastoral site
1:20right on the Edeto River and it's uh was
1:23built on the flood plane. It was
1:25inhabited by it was a village
1:27surrounding a uh a monumental earthwork
1:30complex. The village I believe held
1:33about perhaps as many as a thousand
1:35people.
1:35>> I think that's what it said. Yeah.
1:36>> Yeah. I think about a thousand people.
1:39The J date date generally given for it's
1:41about a thousand years ago. I wouldn't
1:44be surprised though if the mounds were
1:47older because the thousand years is the
1:50date that I think more or less applies
1:52to when the occupancy was occurring but
1:56not necessarily when the mounds
1:58themselves were built.
1:59>> Yeah.
1:59>> And we are finding out um we even talked
2:01to the manager site manager and he did
2:04make the off-hand comment that
2:05everything keeps getting older and
2:06older.
2:07>> I immediately thought of Graham Hancock
2:09who says the same thing.
2:10>> Of course. Yeah.
2:11>> Yeah. So um what we're going to be
2:14talking about is mushrooms but not when
2:17you say mushrooms you know I mean there
2:19could be a lot of things that conjures
2:21up in people's mind but we're going to
2:24be talking specifically about ammonita
2:27mushrooms.
2:27>> Yeah. And ammonita mascaria to be
2:29specific.
2:30>> Amanita mascaria to be more precise.
2:33Yes. Um and I know I'm going to learn a
2:37lot. I've already learned a lot and I've
2:39had some I've done a little testing on
2:42myself at this point and um so far I
2:45like what I've experienced. We can talk
2:48about the specific physiological or
2:51emotional or psychological effects of
2:54the different uh the different products
2:56you've developed.
2:57>> Yeah. Now, why don't we start by you
3:01just describing
3:03how you came to this, how you what were
3:05your initial inspiration was um cuz that
3:09to me was a very interesting story how
3:11you found your way into this realm of
3:14the mushrooms.
3:15>> Of course. Yeah. I mean, it's such a
3:16it's it's a really profound story. It's
3:19it's it was never something that I was
3:21striving for or hoping to do with my
3:23life. I've always had the feeling that I
3:25meant to have an impact on the world,
3:27you know, whatever that may end up
3:29being. But I never thought it would be
3:30through through mushrooms. But so I was,
3:33you know, through my 20s, I was I was in
3:35real estate. Well, I went to school for
3:37for physics for a couple years right
3:39after the the08 uh housing crisis
3:42happened. And and I ended up dropping
3:44out and getting into real estate. And I
3:45was, you know, flipping homes and
3:47amassing rental properties and helping
3:49helping uh investors, you know, build up
3:52their rental portfolio. And it was cool.
3:53It was fun. It was a dopamine hit. You
3:55know, it wasn't a really rewarding thing
3:57for me, but it was it was it it was it
4:00sufficed for that time. But throughout
4:02that period, I was also getting heavy
4:04into into drug addiction, which is
4:07something that I struggled with since I
4:08was, you know, 12 or 13. Kind of maybe
4:11always trying to trying to run away from
4:15pain, we'll say. I think that's that's
4:17generally the consensus often with drug
4:19addiction. Um, and you know, I I was I
4:22was very successful. I was good at what
4:24I did um throughout my 20s until it kind
4:27of all started to fall apart. And at 29,
4:30so this was 2019, I I made the decision
4:32that I was either going to I was going
4:34to die or at the very least I wasn't
4:37going to be able to accomplish what I'm
4:39here on earth to do, you know, and that
4:41was enough for me to, you know, want to
4:42want to get off everything. So I I
4:44kicked I was I was on predominantly
4:46opioids and and bzzoazipines. So
4:49benzoazipazipines for those that don't
4:51know are typical anti-anxiety
4:52medications like Xanax, Clonopin,
4:55Valium.
4:56>> Um and they're notoriously known as the
4:59worst drugs in the world to get off of.
5:02And so like I I I kicked opioids.
5:04Difficult, not that hard. I had heard
5:06that that benzo were the worst to get
5:08off of. It's not that I like shrugged it
5:10off, but I had no idea what I was
5:12getting into. And they are they they're
5:14they're so bad because they damage your
5:16your GABA system and your glutamate
5:18system which take a long time to
5:20recover. So
5:21>> okay, which they damage which system?
5:24>> The the GABAric system and then the
5:26glutamate system.
5:26>> The glutamate system. Okay.
5:28>> Yeah. So it's your the glutamate is your
5:29excitatory system and the GABA system is
5:31your inhibitory system. And they're
5:33they're they're correlated. So when one
5:35has more GABA, more inhibitory
5:37neurotransmitters, their glutamate is
5:39reduced, more less excitatory. they
5:41have, you know, less GABA, their
5:42glutamate is increased, so they're more
5:44excitatory. Um, so when you get off
5:46benzo, like your GABA has been
5:48artificially raised for so long that
5:51it's, you know, it it's downregulated.
5:53It doesn't you don't produce enough GABA
5:55and so glutamate goes through the roof.
5:57So your excitatory neurotransmitters go
5:59through the roof. So essentially, it was
6:01like it was like living in a panic
6:03attack times 10 24/7. It's awful. It's
6:06awful. I have and and it's it's so bad
6:09because it lasts for so long. For a lot
6:11of people, not for everybody, but for
6:12some people it'll last 10 plus years. I
6:15have a cousin who produced the film
6:16Medicating Normal, which was on Gaia
6:19actually. And uh her business partner
6:22has been at least last I heard she was
6:24off of benzo for 9 years or so and she
6:27was still struggling like really in No
6:30kidding. Yeah, it's it can be brutal and
6:31it's it's not like that for everybody,
6:33but a good amount of people have to deal
6:34with this what they call protracted
6:36withdrawal. Although it's it's
6:38technically not even withdrawal at this
6:40point. It's brain damage. You're you're
6:41dealing with the damage GABA and
6:42glutamate system and they take a long
6:44time to recover. So, I was I was in
6:46this, you know, hell for for a year and
6:50like, you know, couldn't sleep. I
6:52wouldn't sleep for months at a time. I
6:54couldn't eat. I was like 150 lbs at, you
6:56know, 6'4. Um, and I was I was, you
7:00know, I felt like everybody was out to
7:02get me constantly and that the slightest
7:04thing would trigger a panic attack. And
7:06and throughout this process, I had the
7:08over ambitious I've always been
7:09entrepreneurial, so I had the over
7:11ambitious idea to start a cannabis
7:13company at the beginning of my benzo
7:15withdrawal, which I did. Um, it was a
7:16lot. It was it was fun trying to build
7:18like a website and one little thing
7:20going wrong would send me into a
7:21full-blown panic, you know, so it took a
7:24long time to get going. But um but
7:26anyway, so I was I was building up this
7:28company and dealing with with these
7:29issues and I was it was a year into it.
7:32It was actually a year to the day. Um I
7:34got off benzo September 16th, 2019. And
7:37September 16th, 2020, I was on a hike
7:40and I was really beginning to
7:42contemplate ending my life cuz it felt
7:44like I'd healed 5% maybe if that you
7:47know. So I was looking at those stories
7:49of which of people deal with this
7:51dealing with this for seven 10 years
7:53like it was looking like that was what I
7:55was up against and I didn't think I
7:57could handle it you know and so I was on
7:59this hike and I was contemplating all
8:01this stuff and this is in Minnesota you
8:03know we're both motans and this was in
8:05uh right around White Bear Lake
8:07Minnesota I was hiking around and I
8:09found this patch of mushrooms growing
8:11and they were beautiful it's it's the
8:13gassoi variety of ammonita mascara which
8:16are orange with white dots instead that
8:17are red with white dots and they're
8:20they're prominent in certain like you
8:22know marsh not marsh lands but certain
8:24geographies up in up in Minnesota and
8:26there was this like I'd seen them
8:28growing there before I never I never
8:30registered them. I've always studied,
8:32you know, pharmarmacology, plant
8:34medicine, so I knew what they were. I
8:36I'd read a good amount about them, but
8:38all the info that I'd read about them
8:40were not very positive experiences from
8:42people or people labeling them as toxic
8:44and poisonous, which is a myth that's
8:46been perpetuated [clears throat] for
8:47hundreds of years.
8:48>> That was my memory of, you know, looking
8:50into the ammonita muscaria years and
8:53years ago. That's what I remember most
8:55distinctly was that they were, you know,
8:57considered poisonous or Yeah.
8:59>> And, you know, I did not know, but I
9:01didn't have access to them.
9:03>> So, it was never an issue. Well, I'm
9:05probably never going to be doing Amanita
9:07muscaria.
9:08>> Yep. Yeah. And that's kind of what I
9:09thought too. You know, I didn't know any
9:10better. And that's we can talk about
9:12that myth later on because it's such an
9:14interesting potential story or
9:16hypothesis as to why it's been
9:18perpetuated for so long. But so yeah,
9:21there was like I I saw them growing and
9:23I got I've always also been very
9:25spiritual. So I meditated since I was
9:2713. Even through the midst of my really
9:29bad drug addiction, I was I was you know
9:31reading spiritual texts and and
9:33practicing meditation. And so I you know
9:36I have this intuitive [snorts] aspect to
9:38me and and there was this like
9:41unbelievable pull towards these
9:43mushrooms. really
9:44>> I liken it to if you meet somebody who's
9:46a future partner or a future best friend
9:49like there's a attraction to that person
9:51you know it's palpable you can feel it
9:53and it was like that but to a degree
9:55that I'd never experienced before and
9:56haven't experienced since
9:58>> and so I like I quieted the mind and
10:01dropped in and and I heard loud and
10:04clear we have something for you and in
10:06return you're going to do something for
10:07us okay you know and so I picked them
10:11and I went to the house and I started
10:13doing rese research and I found they hit
10:14the GABA system and the glutamate
10:16system, the same systems that
10:17bzzoazipines damage. I found all this
10:20other info that we were just talking
10:21about with people online having really
10:23bad experiences. And I now know that
10:25it's like people taking basically heroic
10:28doses without proper preparation and
10:30having really terrible experiences. It's
10:32like if you're 16 and you're going to
10:34drink for the first time and you're just
10:36down a fifth of vodka, you know?
10:37>> Uh that's a very similar story to me
10:40when I was 15. [laughter]
10:41>> Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I've been there
10:43too. Absolutely. Yep. And so, yeah, I I
10:46I did some more research and there was
10:48there was one person talking about these
10:50positively online and it was a woman who
10:54goes by the pseudonym Ammonita Dreamer
10:56and she had just built her YouTube
10:58channel maybe a month or two prior to me
11:00finding her videos and she I I watched
11:02her first video and it was the exact
11:04same story as mine. However, she was
11:06actually walking gun in hand, suicide
11:09note written, you know, to end her life
11:11going through benzoazipene withdrawal
11:13when she saw this patch of mushroom
11:14mushrooms growing and it had this
11:16magnetic pull to her. And so she picked
11:18them and did research and she claimed
11:20that utilizing ammonita healed her brain
11:23after after getting off benzo or going
11:25through benzo withdrawal. It
11:26>> healed her brain.
11:27>> Healed her brain. Yep. So I, you know,
11:29at that point I was desperate, willing
11:30to try anything. I had tried everything
11:32under the sun to try and get some relief
11:34and nothing really helped, you know, and
11:36and the the first time I was still being
11:38very cautious. So the first time I used
11:40them, I used what we call a nano dose,
11:42which is a micro micro dose, right? So
11:44like a tenth of a micro dose. And I brew
11:46it up into a tea and and drank it. And
11:49>> it was it was so interesting because
11:51pharmacologically and physiologically
11:53like it shouldn't have had any effect.
11:55There was such a minute amount of
11:57activives in there and you know placebo
11:59sure potentially but I had an immediate
12:01relief of my symptoms immediate like and
12:04and it should have taken 20 30 minutes
12:05to kick into but it didn't. It was
12:07nearly immediate and I had this this
12:10interesting like there's an interesting
12:12anecdote from that first experience that
12:14kind of like set the tone for some of
12:16the work that I was to start doing. I
12:18was on the phone with my sister and she
12:20was working at a vineyard in Minnesota
12:22and they'd just gotten a shipment of
12:24grapes in from California for the for
12:26the vineyard and there were a bunch of
12:27lizards in these boxes that you know
12:29from California and she took one and
12:31brought it home and and builded a little
12:33habitat and she's telling me this story
12:34and I just blurred out Frank. She goes,
12:36"Yeah, how'd you know that I named him
12:38Frank?" And I was like oo that you know
12:40I we we all get intuitive hits from time
12:42to time. your phone rings, you know who
12:43it is before you look at it, you know.
12:45But this was a good one and it like it
12:47showed me, okay, there's something much
12:48more here to even what you're noticing
12:50and feeling in your body right now. This
12:52relief that you're going through.
12:54>> This was Frank the Liz lizard.
12:56>> Frank the lizard. Yeah. Frank the lizard
12:57showed me, you know.
12:59>> Yeah. Okay. Right.
13:00>> And uh so I, you know, I started using
13:03them over the course of two weeks. I was
13:05micro doing them daily and I took a
13:07couple larger doses in there. um larger
13:11being like medium doses we'll say and we
13:13can get into dosing and all that later
13:15but um after the end of the two weeks I
13:18stopped and it felt to me as if I was
13:21like 70 to 80% healed. I wasn't just
13:24healed while I was using them it was
13:25afterwards too. So it was as if they
13:27they returned balance and homeostasis to
13:30my GABA and glutamate system you know
13:32and so there's you know there there
13:34seems to be a strong neuroplastic
13:37component to these mushrooms.
13:38Unfortunately, there's really no data on
13:40them as of now. I would hope that that
13:42can change in the near future. Um, but
13:44yeah, so I I reached out to this woman
13:47um that Amonita Dreamer, whom I
13:50mentioned earlier, and I wrote her this
13:51like four-page letter expressing my
13:53gratitude and explaining that I had this
13:55cannabis company that I was building up
13:57and I wanted to sponsor one of her
13:58videos and she, you know, graciously
14:01accepted and I joined this little
14:03community of, I don't know, maybe a
14:05couple hundred people around the US that
14:07were starting to learn about this and
14:08use it. And within we'd do like monthly
14:11meetings or bi-weekly meetings and
14:13stuff. And within 6 months, it was May
14:16of 2021,
14:18um, somebody asked me in the community
14:20if I would start selling the mushrooms
14:22cuz I have an entrepreneurial background
14:24and everybody was importing them from
14:26Russia and Lithuania at that point in
14:28time. And so I, you know, I I brought in
14:30my first couple kilos from Russia and
14:33started off as, you know, just a little
14:35ordeal outside of my basement. And one
14:37thing led to another. Yeah, here we are.
14:39And we've learned, you know, my initial
14:42interest was helping people with anxiety
14:44and getting off of benzo, but I've
14:46learned that the mushroom has a much
14:48bigger plan than that and has a much
14:51much wider scope of efficacy.
14:53>> Interesting. So, the, you know, I had
14:56kind of forgotten about them. I think,
14:58you know, I um What were the books that
15:00covered? We were talking earlier.
15:03>> Yeah. So, so the the order was the
15:05sacred mushroom by Andrea Puhurik and
15:08then there's S divine mushroom of
15:10immortality and then John Allegro's
15:12sacred mushroom of the cross. Those are
15:14the three that came out.
15:15>> Yes, sacred mushroom and the cross.
15:17Allegro. That's the one I read many many
15:19years ago. And uh
15:21>> the first one uh you just mentioned that
15:23one I believe I read too. Uh what was
15:25it? What did you say?
15:27>> That one's just called the sacred
15:28mushroom. I think mushroom. Yeah. key or
15:30key to the door of eternity or something
15:32like that.
15:33>> Okay. Yeah. But I, you know, never I
15:36didn't have a source and, you know, I
15:37just [clears throat] never followed up
15:39on it and actually experienced anything
15:43uh having to do with the the mushrooms.
15:45And then when I was a couple of years
15:47ago or three years ago maybe, I was
15:49researching and I put together a
15:51presentation on it was focused on the
15:54connection between winter solstice and
15:57Christmas.
15:57>> Sure.
15:59And in that research, I kind of come
16:00across this idea, you know, Santa Claus.
16:04>> Yeah.
16:05>> And depictions of Santa Claus that I
16:10mean, you know, look like an ammonita
16:12muscaria
16:13>> and I'm going
16:15that was perplexing to me. So, okay,
16:17what there's something going on here
16:19>> and uh I don't know if [clears throat]
16:20you want to elaborate on that a little
16:22bit, but I mean it brings us into the
16:23realm of shamanism, right?
16:25>> Yeah. Yeah, of course. Well, and you
16:26know, shaman, the word shaman comes from
16:28the Siberians. It's it's that's what
16:30they called their medicine people. They
16:31were the shamans. And now shaman is a
16:33word that's used, you know, all across
16:34the world for medicine workers. And but
16:37yeah, so the Siberian shamans, they
16:38would wear red and white. They would
16:40travel the reindeer like really like
16:42ammonita mascara. So a tiein with
16:45reindeer, they would travel into the
16:47yurt's chimneys because of snow drift to
16:49deliver the mushrooms to the town's
16:51people. And then they would hang the
16:53mushrooms on the mantle above the
16:55fireplace or on the coniferous trees
16:57that they would bring in for their
16:58winter solstice rituals. And yeah,
17:00there's a lot of fun little tie-ins to
17:02that.
17:03>> Yes. And just to plug myself, I think
17:06you can still download and watch the
17:08video I put together on that.
17:10>> Yeah. Cool. But I kind of feel like that
17:12was sort of my long loop around and
17:16coming back and sort of reconnecting
17:19with this tradition that had kind of
17:21just fallen off my radar screen
17:23>> because I was very curious about that.
17:26>> Yeah.
17:27>> And then looked into it and then so
17:29>> I my my mind was kind of prepped in a
17:32way for you to show up.
17:34>> Sure. In a sense,
17:35>> it's be it's it's so interesting the
17:37mushroom shows up to people when that
17:40hap like there's preparation that seems
17:42to happen for and it's like we've pulled
17:44our customer base and like it's
17:46everybody gets primed for it often or
17:48more often than not prior to coming into
17:50their lives just like I was primed for
17:52it, you know.
17:54>> Well, I've had my first experiences
17:57and and I've been doing small doses. I
18:01you know actually what I found is that
18:03um you know I've always had sleep issues
18:05my whole life sleep issues and I it's
18:09sort of the one of the curses of my life
18:11is to
18:12>> wake up at night wide awake ever since I
18:15was a little kid you know laying there
18:17in bed at 2:00 a.m.
18:19>> trying desperately to fall asleep. And
18:21the harder I tried to fall asleep
18:24the more remote sleep became.
18:26>> And I still struggle with that. You
18:28know, I wake up at night and
18:30particularly when I have to go somewhere
18:32the next morning, fly out on a plane or
18:34whatever and I know I got to get up and
18:37and it just and then I lay there awake
18:40all night. I get out, I'm going to do a
18:43uh maybe go visit and do a podcast and
18:45then, you know, I get there and so what
18:47I do now is I kind of like I want to
18:49have a cushion day where I can get to
18:51wherever I'm going and then sleep. What?
18:55>> When I took the capsules, I took one of
18:58the blue um
19:00>> blue lotus.
19:00>> Blue lotus
19:02>> and one of the capsules
19:04I was in. I mean, what can I say? I And
19:09I mean, I slept. I went to bed. I slept.
19:12And and what one of the things then is,
19:15you know, I've got an old back injury
19:17and every once in a while it flares up
19:18and I'm hobbling along like uh well, I
19:22would say like an old man, but I guess
19:24technically I am an old man.
19:26>> Oh, okay. But um so that would have made
19:29it even more difficult to get a good
19:31night's sleep. I have to say I slept
19:34really just like a baby and and you know
19:378 hours usually I'll wake up four or
19:39five hours wake up you know get up do
19:43stuff or whatever and then finally you
19:45know half a day later the rest of my
19:48sleep
19:49>> uh period kicks in but um I mean I just
19:54slept for about 8 hours and when I woke
19:57up I was just ah
20:00so this is one of the typical effect,
20:02right?
20:02>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When when you're
20:04influencing GABA, so and increasing the
20:07inhibitory neurotransmitters, it it can
20:10help with, you know, things like
20:11relaxation and not necessarily that it's
20:13like sedating, but I mean, it can be to
20:16an extent, but
20:17>> yeah, I wouldn't call it sedating. I
20:18just
20:18>> Yeah, but it's relaxing, right? It kind
20:20of it also it it quiets the thoughts,
20:24uh, which can be really powerful. It
20:25almost gives weights to the thoughts in
20:27a sense, which which can also be really
20:29powerful. And it it it changes the way
20:32that you know often times that people
20:34see things and and it almost kind of
20:36produces a similar experience to like
20:38meditation, you know, and so yeah, it
20:41can help people fall into a restful
20:43sleep and then stay there. Did you
20:44notice any dream enhancement? I don't
20:46think I've asked.
20:47>> Yes, I did have dreams. I did. I had
20:49dreams that uh I don't remember what the
20:51dream this is, you know, two weeks ago,
20:53three three weeks ago. Um
20:56>> but yeah, so you you sent me some
20:58samples and Yeah, the the blue lotus,
21:02they didn't last long. [laughter]
21:03>> Yeah, for sure. Good. I like that. Yeah,
21:06it's also a fascinating plant. You know,
21:08the ancient Egyptians most revered plant
21:11medicine or at least most known revered
21:13plant medicine. I mean, you get into
21:14this the sacred mushroom book and he
21:16would argue that that Amanita Mascaria
21:19actually was the most revered, but since
21:21they were remnants of the mushroom cults
21:23that kept everything secretive and
21:25didn't wouldn't write about it, there's
21:26no glyphs or anything of Amanita, but
21:29but Blue Lotus is all over the Stella. I
21:31mean, King Tut, you know, when they
21:32opened up his sarcophagus, his body is
21:34covered in blue lotus petals and
21:36>> Oh, really?
21:36>> Yeah. Yep. Yep.
21:38>> didn't know that. Well, yeah. I really
21:41liked the Blue Lotus, so I'm going to be
21:43uh hopefully procuring some more.
21:45>> Yeah. Oh, of course. Absolutely. Try it
21:47before drumming.
21:48>> I'm telling you. Yeah. Yeah. It it
21:50boosts it adds this like, you know, this
21:52flowy like creative it allows you you
21:55you have a different viewpoint, right?
21:58And and you're able to flow in a
21:59different way. And yeah, I'd be curious
22:01to hear how it how it
22:02>> Oh, I will definitely try that. I will
22:05definitely try.
22:06And then I you know I I found out you're
22:08a drummer as well. So I'm looking
22:10forward you we both grew up in canoes in
22:12Minnesota.
22:14>> We're both drummers. So I think you're
22:16going to have to make a journey back.
22:18>> We'll do some canoeing and some
22:20drumming.
22:20>> That sounds great. Maybe drumming on the
22:22canoes. Yeah.
22:24>> Well, now there we have that's an idea,
22:26isn't it? Um you know I check the tone
22:28of everything. You know when they when
22:30the boys brought in the table that they
22:32made here, first thing I have to do is
22:37Okay, sounds good. We'll take it. When I
22:39when we get the new countertops in the
22:41kitchen, I had to check the tone there,
22:43you know.
22:45>> Um, but should we talk about this? Sure.
22:48Is this the time? Cuz I've got this
22:50package that I haven't opened. I wasn't
22:52going to open until you got here cuz I
22:54wanted to make sure I knew exactly what
22:56I should be doing with this. But
22:58>> here we go. I mean, this is um uh
23:01>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, these are these
23:03are the mushrooms. And so this is, you
23:05know, they're they're dried. So there's
23:06there's a few caveats that that I should
23:08explain. And we're going to get a little
23:10bit into pharmarmacology um just to
23:12understand uh what's actually going on
23:14in the mushrooms. So there's three main
23:16compounds in ammonita mascara. One is
23:18ibotenic acid, glutamineric, affects the
23:20glutamate system. The other is muskimal,
23:23gabaurgic, it affects the GABA system.
23:25And the third is muscarine and that's
23:27affects the acetylcholine system. So,
23:30and that one's that one's very minor and
23:31and it probably has a very minute
23:33effect, but acetylcholine is what's you
23:35know all all the neurotropics and smart
23:37drugs out there hit the acetyloline
23:39systems responsible for memory and
23:41attention etc etc. Um, so it has this
23:43like neotropic quality to it or or
23:46focusing or mind enhancement we'll say.
23:49Um, but so in nature it only produces
23:52ibotenic acid and muscarine. So it's not
23:54producing any muskimal which is the
23:55gabaurgic when you so if you have a if
23:58you have a fresh mushroom right out of
24:00the ground it has super high
24:02concentrations of ibotenic acid and
24:04almost no muskimal in it. So you have to
24:06dry it and that decarboxilates or
24:09converts the ibotenic acid into
24:10muskimal. So when you have them dried
24:13you convert a a good percentage into
24:16muskimal giving it more of that that
24:17gabaurgic effect. Now you can prepare it
24:20even further by utilizing heat and
24:22acidity. So, and and the easiest way to
24:25accomplish this is by making a tea. So,
24:27one will, you know, add the mushrooms to
24:29a pot of water with a good amount of
24:30lemon juice. You get your acidity. You
24:32boil it for 20 to 30 minutes and then
24:35strain and drink. And that'll give you
24:36so it it alters the experience that
24:39one's having dependent on if you eat
24:41them dry like this or take a capsule
24:43like that or if you heat them up and it
24:45goes through the decarb oxilation
24:46process. So, something like the gummies
24:48for instance, those go through a decarb
24:50process. So they have more muskimal and
24:52less ibotenic acid where something like
24:54the the [clears throat] capsules or the
24:55raw mushroom caps have more ibotenic
24:58acid and less muskimal. Now another fun
25:00fact is iotenic acid converts deep
25:02caroxilates into muskimal in the body
25:05and that's where like you have stories
25:07of in Siberia the shamans would would
25:10eat the raw caps or maybe they brew a
25:12tea and then they and and then the
25:14muskimal is not fully metabolized so it
25:17gets excreted into the ur through the
25:19urine. So the shamans would, you know,
25:22urinate in large vats and hand it around
25:24to the town's people who would drink it
25:25and then get their intoxication or
25:27whatever. And they they would drink, you
25:29know, reindeer urine, too, I guess. And
25:31it's interesting.
25:32>> The the reindeer consume the mushrooms.
25:33>> Reindeer consume the mushrooms, which
25:35ties into the Christmas story,
25:37[clears throat] you know. Yeah.
25:38>> Yeah. But yeah, so so these, you know,
25:40with the with the raw mushrooms
25:41themselves, there's a couple there's two
25:43ways to do it, right? You can take them
25:44raw as is and you get more iotenic acid,
25:46or you can brew the tea and get more
25:48muskimal. Um, generally if one is taking
25:53larger doses, and I don't recommend
25:55anybody to take larger doses until
25:57they're very experienced with it. And if
25:58you're taking really large doses, like
26:00it's probably wise to have somebody
26:02there with you because it can be quite
26:03the experience, you know, but um when
26:06it's a low dose, it's very well
26:08tolerated. And low dose can be up to
26:10like 3 to 5 grams or so. Um, that sounds
26:13like a lot with with psilocybin. That's
26:15a lot. you know that's a heroic dose but
26:17ammonita has a different dosing table to
26:18it. [clears throat] Um but then uh yeah
26:21with larger doses one really wants to
26:23make a tea because too much ibotenic
26:24acid can make one nauseous. So then if
26:26if one is like eating the mushroom right
26:28out of the ground it has such a high hit
26:30of ibotenic acid that nine out of 10en
26:33times they're going to have a pretty
26:34unpleasant experience and that's where a
26:36lot of those old reports online come
26:38from because they had no idea they
26:39didn't know you know so they're just
26:41eating them out of the ground. Um, but
26:43yeah, so we can, you know, so we have
26:44the capsules and the raw caps. If you
26:46want, you're welcome to eat a cap.
26:48Although I'm just I'm going to take a
26:49few caps. I I'll I'll eat I'll eat a
26:51cap. We'll do that one. And then you can
26:53take capsules or eat a cap, whatever you
26:54like. And then in like half hour, 45
26:56minutes, we're going to check in and see
26:57how you're feeling.
27:01Up to you. We can we can go all out and
27:02eat five cap. No, I'm just kidding.
27:07>> All right, I'll definitely take a cap
27:09>> here. We'll do we'll do a relatively
27:10small cap for you. So that's probably
27:12like two two and a half capsules worth,
27:14give or take.
27:15>> Oh, okay.
27:17>> Yeah.
27:17>> And they they you know, it tastes kind
27:20of like what you would imagine it would
27:21taste like. So they're not the most
27:22pleasant, but they're not bad.
27:24>> Okay.
27:25>> So just put it in my mouth and chew it
27:27up.
27:27>> Here we go.
27:28>> I like to swallow it kind of like a
27:30pill, you know.
27:31>> They're not the most pleasant, but it's
27:33a mushroom. Yeah. Dried mushroom.
27:36>> It's not that bad. Not bad.
27:37>> It's kind of like an umami flavor a
27:38little bit.
27:39>> Yeah.
27:48Yeah. One of the So, you know, in in in
27:51this book, The Sacred Mushroom by Andrea
27:54Puhurik, it's it's it's the earliest
27:56work about Amanita Mascara, and it's
27:59such an interesting story. So, I don't
28:01know if Are you familiar with Andrea
28:04Purehurik other than other than this
28:05book?
28:06>> No, that's the only one that I I I know
28:08he's got other books out there. Yeah.
28:10Well, he did a lot of work for the CIA
28:12and stuff and yeah, he he has a lot of
28:14really interesting interesting stuff
28:15that he did, but I I believe this is his
28:17first or one of his first real bodies of
28:20work, but so he was an ESP researcher
28:22like back in the 50s.
28:23>> Okay. Yeah.
28:24>> And then he he got I don't know if he
28:25got recruited or joined the army or
28:27something and was working as as a doctor
28:30or something like that, but he still had
28:32his his research center going. And one
28:35day his assistant calls him and says
28:36that there was this man, can't remember
28:38the guy's name that came in and and
28:41touched an ancient Egyptian artifact and
28:44went into a psychometric trance and
28:46started speaking ancient Egyptian and
28:48like verified ancient Egyptian and
28:51writing ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs.
28:53And so he was so intrigued that he came
28:54back and and started researching and and
28:56and working with this guy. And the most
28:59of the book is him trying to figure out
29:01if the guy is hoaxing or not, you know,
29:04and in the end he he realizes like
29:05there's no there's no way he could be
29:07hoaxing any of this. But the man was
29:09talking about he he he brought on this
29:12personality personality I believe named
29:14Rahoteep of this Egyptian priest from
29:194500 years ago who was telling these
29:21stories about these ancient mushroom
29:23rights and rituals that they would do.
29:25and he and and it turns, you know,
29:28throughout investigating all this, it it
29:30very much sounds like they're working
29:31with Amanita Muscaria. And it ties back
29:34into that fact that like, yeah, these
29:36mushroom these mushroom cults back in
29:38the day were they didn't write about
29:39what they were going through. So,
29:41there's no, you know, evidence of this
29:42in any of the Egyptian um Egyptian
29:45bodies of work or anything. Um and, you
29:47know, who knows? But it's a it's a
29:49really fascinating story nonetheless.
29:51And um he he ends up doing a lot of
29:55research with Amanita specifically and
29:58they didn't know how to prepare it or
30:00they didn't know any of the things that
30:01we're talking about right now. So they
30:03didn't know you know proper dosing or
30:05anything like that. But what he found
30:07was when people are taking Amanita their
30:10their extra sensory perception or ESP
30:13abilities get magnified by a tenfold.
30:16So, and he he found with with people
30:18that are already sensitives um or people
30:21that, you know, if they get that card
30:22test or whatever and they're able to
30:24have a statistical, you know, anomaly in
30:27the amount of cards they can guess or
30:28whatever, um if they already have that
30:30ability and they're taking Amanita,
30:32their ability to to intuitively, you
30:35know, receive information goes through
30:37the roof, which is really interesting
30:39because it ties back into that story
30:40that I told when I Frank the lizard, you
30:43know, um it and we've done polls with
30:45with customers is also and it seems that
30:48you know very reliably people report
30:51really profound increases with intuition
30:53with synchronicity um psychic abilities
30:57and so yeah it's and it was it's the
30:59first real body of of work written about
31:01about Amanita Mascaria
31:04>> so how is Frank doing today
31:05>> he's dead unfortunately yeah
31:08>> he passed on
31:08>> thanks thanks for asking that
31:10[clears throat]
31:11>> as a kid I raised lizards so I yeah
31:14>> I had a thing for lizards Yeah.
31:16>> To me, they were like little dinosaurs.
31:18>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. I had I
31:20had leopard geckos at once. I had a
31:21bearded dragon at one point.
31:23>> Uhhuh. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, we've got S
31:26here. The uh and and there's a nice
31:30illustration on the cover of the Aanita
31:33>> Mus. Yeah. S divine motion of
31:35immortality. So, yeah, this is the next
31:37real body of work that came out about
31:39Amanita. And it's it's Gordon Wson. He
31:41has an interesting story, too. He was a
31:43JP Morgan banker. So, not the typical
31:45person that you would imagine kind of
31:47doing this stuff. And he was invited to
31:50go have a psilocybin experience with
31:53Marina Sabina, who is like the
31:55psilocybin shaman and and Aaka, I
31:58believe, who like, you know, she was
32:00she's the reason that psilocybin became
32:02popularized in the west. And it's it's
32:04actually due to him. And he went down
32:06and had this experience with her, I
32:08think, in 55 maybe. and he wrote he
32:12wrote an article in Life magazine about
32:14his his experience called something with
32:16something something magic mushrooms or
32:18something like that
32:19>> and it ended up you know
32:22>> getting gaining a lot of interest around
32:23these mushrooms but it also ruined Maria
32:26Sabina's life unfortunately because it
32:29it caused tourism and and psychedelic
32:31tourism and it kind of yeah completely
32:34you know it's it's kind of this like
32:36>> and roughly what year is this
32:38>> I think well it was 55 that he went and
32:40did it. I think it was 57 that he did he
32:43wrote the article, I believe.
32:45>> Um, and yeah, I mean it it's it's it's
32:50too bad, but it's also, you know,
32:52thankful I'm thankful that he had that
32:55experience, you know, but yeah, it's
32:56it's too bad that it it it caused so
32:58much friction and chaos in her life and
33:00in Aaka. Um but then in ' 68 he released
33:04uh S the divine mushroom of immortality
33:06in which he argues and it's it's a
33:09pretty you know it's an interesting
33:11argument. It's it seems really solid
33:14when you're reading the book. However,
33:16there's been so much conjecture around
33:18it and so much debate around it and he's
33:20been I mean his whole career was was,
33:22you know, ripped apart and he was, you
33:24know, he was ridiculed for for years and
33:27years and years. But the thesis was that
33:31S, which is the divine drink of
33:34immortality in the Rig Va, which was
33:36which was a a a deity. It was the only
33:39it was the only deity that wasn't um
33:42extradimensional or in the heavenly
33:44realms. It was the only deity that had
33:45physicality on earth and it was this
33:47brew that they would drink. Um, and his
33:49argument was that SOMO was made from
33:52Amanita Mascara. And it's, you know,
33:54it's an interesting argument. Who knows?
33:56Um, but then there are, you know, we
33:58were hanging out with Tim Hogan a little
34:00bit ago and he was at, I think it was
34:01Anchor Watt, and he he showed us this
34:04this glyph that he he recorded with like
34:08Amanita mushrooms all over the Buddha
34:10and like, you know, who knows? Like,
34:12yeah, there's there's there's really
34:14fascinating potential tie-ins and it's
34:17definitely a possibility. Um but yeah,
34:19so that's Gordon Watson and then John
34:21Allegro came out I think a couple years
34:24later and released you know Sacred
34:25Mushroom in the cross and that's another
34:27interesting story. John Allegro was he
34:29was a philologist and one of the one of
34:32the few researchers tasked with
34:34deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls when
34:36they were discovered in Kuman I think.
34:38Um and uh he you know he wrote the book
34:42based on what what he discovered or what
34:45he believes he discovered and that and
34:47the thesis of the book was that you know
34:50the entire Christian story of Jesus
34:52Christ is essentially an allegory for
34:55the mushroom life cycle and the mushroom
34:57and all the different names have
34:59different correlations to different
35:00aspects of the ammonita mushroom and
35:02it's a far-fetched claim you know I
35:04don't know it's it's you know but um
35:07it's a really interesting body of work
35:09and it's a really really it's an intense
35:12very deep read that can get a little dry
35:15and difficult at times but it's yeah
35:17it's a fascinating concept.
35:18>> Well my [clears throat] research into
35:20mythism which was the primary competitor
35:23to Christianity
35:25>> led me to believe circumstantially that
35:28they were using some kind of an a a
35:32substance they were taking and it was
35:34probably a drink. Um,
35:35>> y [clears throat]
35:36>> and so when I really got and this is,
35:40you know, 15, 20 years ago when I was
35:42really getting into the myithism because
35:44I hadn't understood that
35:46>> that there had been this
35:48competitor to Christianity that in fact
35:50almost became the the dominant religion
35:54of the Roman Empire at the time. Um, and
35:56then when I as I got into it and began
35:59to to conclude, it sure looks like their
36:02ritual was accompanied by um the
36:06ingestion of something that was probably
36:08brewed up. And and then from that point,
36:11it I thought, well, it wouldn't be that
36:13far-fetched that early Christians may
36:15have been
36:16>> doing something. And then I have reason
36:18to believe that, you know, the early uh
36:20the precursors to the Masonic rituals
36:23also involved
36:24>> Yeah. uh ingestion of Yeah. of probably
36:27some DMT related.
36:29>> Sure. Yeah. Acacia, right?
36:30>> Yeah. Because acacia is so important in
36:33the Masonic
36:34>> tradition. Uh and that's one of the
36:37primary plant sources of DMT.
36:39>> Yep. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, there's
36:40it it's so hard to to not believe that
36:44they were utilizing psychedelics and
36:46psychoactive plants back then. And then
36:48you know with like Mithraism and
36:50Christianity didn't isn't there aren't
36:52there some crazy tie-ins with
36:54>> it's it's Mithra is that the is that the
36:56the
36:57>> Yeah ultimately yeah Mitra
36:58>> Mitra Yeah. Yeah. They have like a very
37:00s like virgin birth and like crucifixion
37:03blah blah
37:03>> December 25th.
37:04>> December 25th. Yeah. Yeah. And so like
37:07you know if it is if if if those stories
37:10are allegorories or embellishments or
37:12whatever it may be based on like it it
37:16knows you know but it's it's a really
37:17interesting thought but then then you
37:19have the Eucharist you know like they
37:20were for sure utilizing something
37:22whether it was psychoactive I don't know
37:24but um John Allegro would would say I
37:28believe that you know if it was at at
37:30the very least the Eucharist was was
37:32likely Amanita Mascari it makes sense
37:35you know it's definitely a possibility.
37:37>> Well, it does to me make sense. Uh, and
37:39I don't see any, you know, moral reason
37:42why you should reject it out of hand.
37:45Um, I mean, after all, I mean, we're
37:47talking about natural substances here.
37:49It's part of the natural order of
37:51creation.
37:52>> Yeah.
37:53>> And, uh, why utilizing the psychoactive
37:57substances that have been provided to us
38:00by nature itself, why would that be
38:04prescribed behavior? Yeah. You know.
38:06>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well, and then you
38:08know like so John Allegro's career was
38:11destroyed. He was decimated you know
38:13like and you know it's to to to the
38:17average person that might sound like a
38:19really really outlandish far-fetched
38:20claim. Maybe it is. But then years
38:23later, there were the discoveries of all
38:25these ancient, you know, depictions of
38:28Christ with an ammonita head or in like
38:31churches around Europe back in the day
38:34or some of the earlier depictions of
38:35Adam and Eve have been covering
38:37themselves with Amanita caps as opposed
38:38to the fig leaves that we hear about
38:40nowadays. And so all of these
38:42depictions, you know, give a lot of
38:43credence to his his potential theory.
38:46And then there's I mean, you know, the
38:48the some cave paintings from thousands
38:51and thousands of years ago depict
38:53mushrooms. You have ancient coins with
38:55mushrooms on them and it ties back into
38:57like the ancient mushroom cults that
38:59we've talked about. And
39:01>> yeah,
39:01>> there were ancient mushroom cults.
39:03>> For sure.
39:04>> Yeah,
39:04>> for sure. Y
39:06>> you familiar with the work of Terrence
39:08McKenna?
39:08>> Of course. Yeah, love Terren.
39:10>> And and how would his I read several of
39:12his works again 2020. He was still alive
39:15actually. I don't remember specifically
39:18any references to Ammonita Muscaria. He
39:20may have had some in there, but
39:22>> he he was he was much more on the
39:23psilocybin kick, you know, but at and
39:26and he actually he had I I believe this
39:29is correct. He had a bad experience with
39:31Amonita and then was like, "Nope, that
39:33can't be." And then later in his life,
39:35closer to the end, he like retracted his
39:37stuff and was like, "Actually, like I I
39:39kind of agree with John Allegro."
39:40>> Okay. I was not aware of that, but
39:43>> yeah. And and then then there this is
39:44this is the piece that I was just
39:46authorized to talk about this publicly.
39:48We'll say um and it's it's Jack Herrera.
39:51And so Jack Herrera was was a he's a
39:54cannabis legend, you know, he was like I
39:56believe he was one of the founders of
39:57the early cannabis churches. And this
39:59was wasn't that long ago. Um but at the
40:02end so anybody that smokes weed like is
40:04familiar with the Jack Carrera strain.
40:06You know, it's a very it's a very common
40:07powerful strain. And he at the end of
40:10his life he switched completely over to
40:11ammonita. And nobody knows this but I
40:14think he had a stroke and he utilized
40:16ammonita and it brought his brain
40:18function back. And so he used it on
40:19hundreds of people suffering with TBI or
40:22or any sort of you know brain injury and
40:24it it pretty reliably brings people
40:26back. And on on a little side note I
40:28have a cat right now who's 17 and she's
40:31she's her brain's starting to go away
40:33and she her vision is you know she can't
40:35really see anymore. And I just started
40:36feeding her Amonita like a week ago and
40:38she's like back to life. It's pretty
40:40crazy. It's It's cool to see, you know.
40:42But so Jack Herrera like wrote this book
40:46about Amanita and it's called the Most
40:48High. And he from what I was told, one
40:52of my good friends is was the caretaker
40:54for him at the end of his life. And from
40:57what she says, he was murdered for the
40:59book. They killed him and they stole the
41:01book and wouldn't allow it to be
41:02published. I don't know. you know,
41:05possibly. Um, and she's the only person
41:07that has a copy of the book and was was
41:10granted the rights by the court, it
41:11sounds like. And so, we're hopefully I
41:14just got a copy on on uh on, you know, a
41:17digital copy like a month ago, and we're
41:20hoping to be able to publish that at
41:22some point.
41:22>> Oh, that would be awesome.
41:23>> But his his whole thesis is that he he
41:26agrees with with John Allegro 100%. He
41:28says that, you know, Constantine uh
41:31basically made up the Christian story
41:33that we have. Not that there wasn't like
41:35somebody named what he says. Not that
41:37there wasn't somebody, you know, back in
41:39the day that was a big healer and yada
41:41yada, but the story was greatly
41:43embellished and it was it they they put
41:46in a lot of metaphors and analogies for
41:49the mushroom life cycle throughout the
41:51story. Um and he you know he cites it to
41:54like you know some of the in the
41:56beginning the mushrooms were viewed as
41:58gods. This is what he says you know and
42:00then as we developed mathematics and
42:02astronomy the gods became you know
42:04heavenly but the mushrooms became the
42:06messengers of the gods and what are the
42:08messengers of the gods or the angels and
42:10that's why you have so many mushrooms
42:11with the word angel in their name like
42:13the destroying angel or angel wings. Um
42:17and and then he then he goes on to say
42:19that you know which angel wears red and
42:22white with gold accents which is what
42:24the mushroom is and that's Archangel
42:26Gabriel and and it just so happens that
42:28my business partner's name is Gabriel
42:30and my name's Christian. You know
42:32interesting little
42:33>> I did notice I I took note of that when
42:36the first time we had that conversation.
42:38I thought Christian and Gabriel.
42:40>> Y
42:43we get just a coincidence.
42:44>> We get a little far out, but man, I
42:45don't know. I don't know.
42:47>> Yep.
42:49>> Well, interesting. And and of course,
42:51you know, S divine mushroom of
42:53immortality. Yeah,
42:54>> I like that concept.
42:56>> Yeah, for sure.
42:57>> Not that I'd want to live forever, but I
42:59wouldn't mind. Hey, I'm I enjoy life and
43:02I've got so many books to read, so many
43:04places to go, so many people to meet. I
43:07need another 75 years.
43:09>> It'd be cool to be able to say when you
43:11want to check out, you know, that would
43:13be nice. Like, it's up to you. That
43:14would be cool. I would like that. Yeah.
43:16>> Yeah.
43:18Well, uh, yeah. You know, I was feeling
43:20my ears today when we're going up the
43:22the long steps,
43:24>> you know, and then and then here comes
43:25show off Trent, bounding three steps at
43:28a time.
43:29>> He only did that to to show you up, you
43:31know.
43:31>> I know. I know. That's
43:33>> That's right.
43:35So uh so okay so you start your business
43:38and in what year did you actually launch
43:41the business formally? It was 2020.
43:43Well, so it was it was a cannabis
43:45business and then my first mushroom sale
43:47was June 14th of 2021
43:51>> and then uh then I switched completely
43:53over to mushrooms within a couple months
43:54and dropped the whole cannabis side of
43:56it
43:56>> because I mean [snorts]
43:58a lot of people are selling cannabis
43:59these days, but I don't know anybody
44:01other than you who
44:03>> Yeah. Yeah. I was the I was the first.
44:05Um there are there are a handful of
44:07people that have have come up and not
44:10even that far after me. We're the
44:12largest by you know quite a large
44:15margin. Um but yeah, I'm I'm all for
44:18anybody wanting to get in this business.
44:19Like you know and from my perspective
44:21like I was put on this mission by the
44:24mushroom or something much greater than
44:26myself. And like I'm I'm on a mission to
44:29get the mushroom out to as many people
44:30as as it might help, you know? And so
44:32like anybody else that wants to get
44:34involved and and help with that, like
44:35please by all means. And this ties in,
44:37you know, we call what we do sacred
44:39commerce cuz it's like the goal is the
44:42goal is to help the goal is to have as
44:44large of a positive impact on the world
44:46and humanity as we can. That and you
44:48know money is obviously a part of it.
44:51Like we need to be profitable to
44:52function, but but that's you know when
44:54when the goal is is positive impact um
44:58everything just flows a lot smoother,
45:01you Yeah. Well, I you know my philosophy
45:04is in my work you know I as a builder I
45:08use many many tools many and every tool
45:11has its purpose and function in getting
45:14to the goal which is to be able to
45:15successfully complete a project and
45:18money is a tool. That's how I look at
45:20it. It's not to me
45:23>> the the the pursuit of money is not the
45:26goal. Money is a means to get to the
45:29goal.
45:29>> Yep. And uh yeah, and I think this is
45:33sort of a new ethic of what I consider
45:35sort of enlightened capitalism. Uh it
45:38it's it's transcended the old Yeah,
45:41we're just going to get as much profit
45:43as we can. That's we're primarily
45:45fixated on profit.
45:48>> Like you said, profit's necessary. You
45:50got to get profit. You can't grow the
45:51business
45:52>> without profit. you have to have
45:53something in excess over your costs in
45:56order to be able to recycle it back in,
45:58reinvest it back in,
46:00>> and then you can grow the business. But,
46:02um, you know, I've always gotten
46:05satisfaction, as much satisfaction from,
46:08you know, finishing a project and having
46:12100% customer satisfaction and knowing
46:14I've accomplished something that is
46:16going to probably long outlast me.
46:19>> Yeah. you know, I and I and I'm always
46:21looking for these overlaps between, you
46:23know, that my philosophy of business and
46:26so, you know, talking to you is
46:29interesting because it kind of fits into
46:30this pattern that I've sort of seen
46:32emerge within the last couple of years
46:34of of getting to know people who've
46:36who've started businesses with this new
46:38what I I guess think of as a new ethic.
46:40>> Yeah. Um and you are certainly fitting
46:43in that category and and very tangibly
46:47you now have a a product that is going
46:50to help people.
46:51>> Yeah. Yeah. It's you know we've we've
46:54probably helped and I shouldn't even say
46:56it like that. The mushroom that we've
46:58helped get out to people has seen
47:01probably 5 to 10,000 people get off of
47:04benzoazipine. That's huge.
47:06>> Now that's huge. That's huge. and then
47:08probably 60 to 100 thousand people whose
47:11lives have been completely transformed
47:13because of it. And like what it's it's
47:15it's so strange for me. I'm like I'm
47:17just this dude from Minnesota that, you
47:19know, had this crazy experience and like
47:22is just doing what I can to to help the
47:24world. And it's it's so cool to see it.
47:26It's it's an egregor, right? It's it's
47:28not me at this point. It's it's this.
47:30It's this entity that's been formulated
47:32by all the pieces working together. And
47:35this is something that you know the
47:37feedback I've gotten in the last few
47:38years is is like the people are engaged
47:41in one aspect or another. It's like I
47:43just last week I interviewed uh Tony
47:46Miscol
47:48Tony sorry Tony your last name I will
47:50get it correct
47:51>> but he's launched a a whole um line of
47:55products um where he that was the result
47:58of him researching the origins of
48:00fluoride and how it ended up in our
48:02water in our toothpaste and and um
48:06>> we had to I learned something discussing
48:08with him. I had no idea that the
48:10fluoride excesses uh were produced by as
48:15a byproduct of nuclear weapons testing.
48:18>> Yeah, I've heard that too.
48:19>> I didn't know that. But he laid the
48:21whole thing out and showed they had to
48:23look for because it was helping to
48:25justify, well, look, there's this
48:27byproduct,
48:28this poisonous byproduct of nuclear
48:31weapons testing, but a look, there's a
48:32positive use for it.
48:33>> It's going to help your teeth.
48:35>> It's going to help your teeth. So he's
48:37developed a whole line of toothpastes
48:39using silver as the anti as the bacteria
48:43bacteria side.
48:44>> Yeah. Awesome.
48:45>> Yeah. So we're going to worked out doing
48:46a little affiliate relation with him and
48:49you know we do CBD. We do uh several
48:53others and and Yeah. And and I'm kind of
48:56getting this sense now there's like a a
48:58network forming of people who Yeah. We
49:01want to we want to make the world a
49:04better place.
49:04>> Yeah. And it's time we we need to make
49:07the world a better place. Y
49:08>> and uh there's these f uh multiple
49:13modalities that seem to be sort of
49:15converging into this this mindset of
49:19yeah we we can live comfortably but not
49:22excessively. We don't need to and and
49:24and
49:26uh yeah and we can produce a product or
49:29a service that makes the world a better
49:32place. And you certainly seem to fit
49:34that. And as I learned more about your
49:36work, that's when I'd say, "Yeah, okay.
49:38Christian fits directly into this model
49:41of of want to call it evolutionary
49:44capitalism."
49:45>> Getting us away from dependency upon the
49:48big authoritarian state and all of its
49:51and the corportocracy
49:53and certainly, you know, the
49:54pharmaceutical drugs. I think there's a
49:56place for that within the spectrum. But
50:00when you get to the point where you've
50:02got this collusion between certain
50:05economic uh players and the government,
50:09then you've skewed the the free market.
50:12And I think
50:14>> Mhm.
50:14>> what you're doing is totally 100% free
50:16market.
50:16>> Yeah, for sure.
50:17>> I love it.
50:18>> For sure.
50:18>> And um
50:20>> am I feeling anything yet?
50:23>> I think we got like 10 15 minutes
50:24probably to go. Maybe maybe though. I
50:26don't know. you you might be really
50:27sensitive.
50:28>> I mean, so what is this now?
50:30>> So that that's kind of so yeah. So so
50:32Amanita is it's our bread and butter. It
50:35you know it's the whole reason that it
50:36all started. It encompasses 80 to 90% of
50:39the business. But then you know Blue
50:41Lotus as we spoke about is probably
50:43second and then Kana is third. And then
50:45I we have I have you know 15 20 other
50:48psychoactive
50:50you know plant medicines that are legal
50:52that we work with but those are the big
50:54three. And so Kana is it's a it's a
50:56succulent from South Africa and it works
50:59in the brain as an SRRI. So you think of
51:01uh SSRIs like Prozac or Zoloft, right?
51:04They're selective serotonin reuptake
51:06inhibitors. Kana is not is not
51:08selective. Um it also doesn't pull on
51:11the receptor sites. So it doesn't it
51:13doesn't downregulate serotonin
51:14production over time. There's no like
51:17there's no addiction potential or
51:18withdrawal from it. And what it does is
51:20it inhibits the re-uptake of serotonin,
51:22meaning it it allows the brain to have
51:24more of a supply of serotonin. And
51:26serotonin is our happy chemical, you
51:28know, so it it produces a nice mood
51:30lift. And so, you know, in South Africa,
51:32they'll prescribe people kind of root
51:34and they'll say, you know, go chew this
51:35root three times a day um for your
51:37depression. And and a lot of people will
51:39use it for socializing as kind of a
51:41social lubricant or for dancing. Some
51:44people call it nature's MDMA because
51:46MDMA also works on serotonin very
51:48heavily. You know, I don't tech I don't
51:50quite agree with nature's MDMA, but but
51:52yeah, it has a potent mood lifting
51:53quality to it.
51:54>> Okay.
51:55>> Yeah.
51:55>> Yep.
51:57>> And you just mentioned the word legal.
51:59Why don't you I mean, we're we're
52:00dealing all these are legal products.
52:02>> Yeah. 100%. Yep. Uh with one caveat, the
52:05state of your neighbor, the state of
52:07Louisiana, unfortunately placed a
52:10blanket ban on any and all psychoactive
52:13plant. They they literally just put a
52:14list together of any psychoactive plant
52:16that they could find and placed a ban. I
52:18think it was early 2000s. Putting this
52:20list together say no people aren't
52:22allowed to to to
52:25>> benefit from the from the products of
52:27nature.
52:28>> It it's so crazy. I
52:31>> often have thought,
52:33>> you know, I'm old enough to remember
52:35when the whole psychedelic revolution
52:37really began. Um, you know, I was
52:40probably in middle school when that
52:42really began to happen in ' 64 to '66.
52:46Um, and by 67 to 68, it was becoming
52:49full-blown part of the culture.
52:52>> Um, and then, you know, it was all
52:55outlawed and but what was happening and
52:58and you know, this is the irony of the
53:00situation. You know, you had people like
53:02Timothy Liry who was branded danger a
53:04dangerous crackpot and uh you know and
53:07others who were doing research at that
53:09time in psychedelics. You probably
53:11remember John C. Liy and his work.
53:13>> Of course. Yeah. He went to the same
53:14school that I did St. Paul Academy in in
53:17Minnesota. Yeah.
53:18>> See, I didn't know that.
53:19>> Yeah.
53:19>> Fellow motan. Yeah.
53:21>> There we go. There's got to be something
53:23going on there. [laughter]
53:24Uh but anyways, I mean there was a very
53:27promising um you [clears throat] know
53:30methodology of using the plants and the
53:33substances for for healing what ails us
53:36psychically and it was all driven
53:38underground. It was all suppressed and
53:41driven underground. And of course, I
53:42think one of the main reasons for that
53:44is because, you know, this is where the
53:46authoritarian state was really coming
53:49into a prominence. And the fear was that
53:53yeah, people start embibing these
53:55substances, these tools of nature. They
53:58start thinking independently. They're
54:00not they become immune to the propaganda
54:03cuz you really I mean literally that was
54:05my experience. you you you instantly saw
54:08through the propaganda. You could see
54:09that it was that it was just contrived.
54:12This is not representing reality. This
54:14is something that has been put out into
54:16society to control people.
54:19>> And you know, Nixon was told that um a
54:22lot well, you know, those anti-war
54:24demonstrators are all pot smokers. So,
54:27you know, if you start cracking down on
54:29the drugs and the cannabis and stuff,
54:31it'll give us an excuse to to arrest
54:33them and throw them in jail because we
54:35can't,
54:36>> you know, we can't arrest them for
54:38protesting. That's a that's a protected
54:41activity in the constitutional system.
54:43So, we have to come up with some other
54:45way. But since they all smoke pot and
54:47this and that, that gives us a
54:48convenient method to to go after them.
54:52>> And that's exactly what they did. I
54:53mean, Richard Nixon gave us the drug
54:55war. Yep.
54:56>> And I I don't
54:59the negative effects of the drug war
55:02from that time to now have in my mind
55:04have been incalculable.
55:06>> Unbelievable. Yeah.
55:07>> Yes.
55:08>> Yeah.
55:08>> And so much I I consciously see this. So
55:12much of the things that are going on in
55:14society right now, I think, are
55:17byproducts of that ignorant and and
55:20authoritarian driven reaction and the
55:23policies imposed upon society.
55:27>> Um, and hopefully now hopefully now we
55:30might be in a position, but it, you
55:32know, we're still in I mean the same
55:33thing. We're still delued under
55:35propaganda, lies, distortions of the
55:39truth. back then media actually was much
55:42freer than it is now. Um
55:46so yeah media is controlled but see this
55:48is the beauty and the power of what
55:49you're doing and what others are doing
55:51is that there is a a network around the
55:54world of people you know realizing okay
55:57so right now the whole narrative is
56:00being controlled but it's I think it's
56:03falling apart people aren't buying into
56:05it anymore
56:06>> and uh I met a woman about three years
56:09ago a an attorney um who is setting up
56:13she's In fact, I just she walks over in
56:16a in a nearby cemetery where where Julie
56:19and I walk regularly. So, I've gotten to
56:21know her and she has a we share an
56:23interest in astronomy.
56:24>> Sure.
56:25>> And we were out I met her. We were out
56:28um I have my my phone app Starwalk 2.
56:32>> Sure.
56:32>> Which I use all the time, you know. I'm
56:34out there. Okay.
56:35>> I have that one.
56:36>> You have that, too? Yeah.
56:37>> Yeah. It's it's fun. So, I turned her on
56:39to that and and anyhow, she just I ran
56:42into her last week. She just come back
56:44from London and she's setting up a
56:46network of like attorneys that are very
56:50much freedom oriented and and I'm going
56:54to she and she's wants she's going to
56:56launch a podcast and she's I don't know
56:59how I missed her contact. She said she
57:02well probably she sent it to my old
57:04email, but uh she said about 2 or 3
57:06months ago she was trying to contact me
57:08cuz she knew I did a podcast and she
57:10wanted to have me help coach her through
57:13the process of of launching a podcast.
57:16>> So you guys, once you guys are gone this
57:18coming week, I'm going to invite her
57:19over here to see the studio and what
57:21we've got going on here.
57:23>> She's going to give me some really
57:24interesting legal advice about some of
57:26the issues that I'm kind of involved
57:28with right now. But um and then she's
57:31going to, you know, tell me more about
57:33this network of of attorneys who are
57:36like wanting to the idea is basically
57:39they're going to be a a a legal
57:43structure that people like us can can
57:46refer to.
57:47>> Amazing. Yeah,
57:47>> that's awesome.
57:48>> I think Yeah. Yeah. We [snorts] need
57:51that.
57:51>> Yeah.
57:52>> Yeah. So, there are things happening. We
57:54just got to, you know, endure and
57:56survive for a little while yet. And I
57:59think we can. I'm optimistic, but boy, I
58:01sometimes I get disturbed at some of the
58:04things that are happening in the world
58:06that are connected with the activities
58:08of our own government.
58:10>> And I feel like America was supposed to
58:12be sort of the way humanity could access
58:18higher levels of freedom. And that's
58:20why, you know, religion, look, you're
58:21you're you're free to practice whatever
58:24religion. Um and you know
58:27one of and if that includes taking the
58:30substances provided to us by nature I
58:33think I look at that as an inherent
58:35right
58:36>> of course absolutely
58:37>> you know a right that's
58:38>> absolutely
58:38>> right up there with all the rest of
58:40>> what we would think the the fundamental
58:42rights natural rights
58:45>> um
58:46>> and and you know I think that the you
58:48know the the authoritarian
58:51state wants to keep us in ignorance But
58:55I don't think it's going to work.
58:57>> I think we're Would you think that we're
58:59kind of in a
59:00>> I don't know like a psychedelic revival
59:02perhaps?
59:02>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it feel it feels not
59:04only that it feels like
59:07aspects of the old guard, we'll say are
59:10dying, you know, and like you said, like
59:12so many more people are I think co had a
59:15lot to do with it too, you know. It's
59:16interesting also that the mushroom hit
59:18the scene during CO as well, you know,
59:20but like you know, so many people were
59:22awakened to some of what's actually
59:25going on in the world and like there's
59:27this growing growing amount of people
59:28that that are just not going to have it
59:30anymore and and unfortunately that also
59:33means that the old guard or whatever you
59:35want to call it is also it seems to be
59:37lashing out and trying to get more of a
59:40firm grip on what's going on. But I
59:42think you know as the laws of the
59:44universe the pendulum will swing you
59:46know and it's swinging back the other
59:47way or that that's how it feels to me
59:49and I think like energetically like
59:52>> internally that's how it feels you know
59:54it feels like things are shifting right
59:55now and what we are doing is is a part
59:58of
59:59>> God or the universe's way to to bring
1:00:02about this shift you know which is a
1:00:04beautiful thing you know
1:00:05>> beautiful thing kind of like rectifying
1:00:07the balance because I think it's gotten
1:00:09imbalanced
1:00:10>> yeah yep 100% %
1:00:12>> and I'm, you know, I'm
1:00:14I'm both encouraged and discouraged,
1:00:16primarily encouraged that some of the
1:00:18things that are happening now are going
1:00:19to really lead us to to a better world.
1:00:23Uh but I'm at the same time, you know, I
1:00:24kind Oh my god, just, you know, I I
1:00:26thought at several points throughout the
1:00:30last 40 or 50 years, you know, let's say
1:00:32the early 90s with the collapse of the
1:00:34Soviet Union and the end of the Cold
1:00:36War, I'm think, okay, now we can shift
1:00:38our resources to doing things that are
1:00:40going to better humanity, better the
1:00:42world. Um but then as I saw what
1:00:46progressed from there, I realized, okay,
1:00:49we've got a faction now that rather than
1:00:52saying, yes, we can convert our swords
1:00:54into plowshares and we're going to get
1:00:56past the cold war. I mean, I think yeah,
1:00:59we couple of times, you know, 62 Cuban
1:01:03missile crisis, 73 crisis in the Middle
1:01:05East that led to almost almost as as
1:01:09confrontational as the Cuban missile
1:01:11crisis. Um,
1:01:14but yeah, I thought, you know, we're
1:01:15going to be able to to shift these
1:01:17resources and boy, what are we going to
1:01:18be able to do now that the Cold War is
1:01:21over? And no, what happened was we had a
1:01:24faction that saw the opportunity and the
1:01:27opportunity was, oh, okay, our main
1:01:29competitor to global domination has now
1:01:32been removed from the equation.
1:01:34>> So, start building all these new middle
1:01:37uh military bases in the Middle East.
1:01:39And what's happening now? We've invested
1:01:41trillions of dollars and it looks like
1:01:44it's looking more and more like that was
1:01:46just a complete waste.
1:01:47>> Yep.
1:01:49>> And how can we salvage something out of
1:01:51this? Something,
1:01:53you know, I always am look even is there
1:01:55any silver lining to this? But yeah, I
1:01:57mean I don't know, you know, maybe maybe
1:02:00it took this whole thing to like really
1:02:03jerk, you know, co and now this um for
1:02:07people to go, wait a time out, time out.
1:02:11We need to re rethink where we're going
1:02:13here.
1:02:14>> And I am always, you know, maybe I'm in
1:02:17a fantasy world, but I think that, you
1:02:19know, we've got the blueprint, the
1:02:20template for essentially restoring the
1:02:23garden.
1:02:24>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course.
1:02:25>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:02:27>> And uh I I think I would prefer to go
1:02:30that route rather than perpetual war.
1:02:32>> I Yeah, I think so. Yeah, that sounds
1:02:34good to me.
1:02:35>> And what you're doing though, I mean,
1:02:37and other people are doing I think is
1:02:39really putting the pressure in that
1:02:41direction.
1:02:42>> Yeah.
1:02:42>> And uh I want more of that.
1:02:44>> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. What do
1:02:46you think happened? Like so you know the
1:02:48you had you had the the psychedelic
1:02:51renaissance which we're seeing seeming
1:02:53to see a revival of although it's
1:02:54becoming corporatized and commercialized
1:02:57which is really too bad. One of the cool
1:02:59things about this mushroom is that it's
1:03:00it's well first off it's it's legal. So
1:03:03like um there's no bars or restrictions
1:03:05but it's microisal. So that means it
1:03:07grows in symbiosis with tree roots. So
1:03:10you need a host tree for it to grow. We
1:03:11can't farm it. So, I couldn't go build a
1:03:13lab and like grow, you know, metric tons
1:03:16of this to sell. Like, so nobody can
1:03:18come in and commercialize it. At least
1:03:19not as of yet. Maybe somebody will
1:03:21figure it out. But, um, but anyways,
1:03:23what do you what do you think about
1:03:26about how the falling out of kind of
1:03:29like the hippie movement and like
1:03:31because it moved from from peace and
1:03:33love to then like Marilyn man or um
1:03:35Charles Manson and then like cocaine and
1:03:38you know, like
1:03:39>> Yeah, good question.
1:03:40Well, you know, and I haven't looked
1:03:42into it, but you know, there's evidence
1:03:44now that that Charles Manson was groomed
1:03:46by the CIA. I
1:03:48>> I don't know to what extent that is and
1:03:50how plausible those arguments are
1:03:52because they haven't really looked into
1:03:53it, but yeah, clearly Charles Manson
1:03:56really that whole thing really sabotaged
1:03:59>> Yeah.
1:03:59>> the movement back then. It really did.
1:04:02[clears throat] I remember, you know, I
1:04:03participated in, you know, protests
1:04:06against the war. Well, here's one of the
1:04:08things I do remember. Um you know we
1:04:10would have these meetings to try to lay
1:04:13out some strategies and it was all the
1:04:14focus was you know clearly over and over
1:04:16again the Gandhiian approach nonviolent
1:04:19nonviolent nonviolent yet there was
1:04:22always somebody who would instigate
1:04:25violence and everybody it was almost
1:04:28like a standing joke you know you could
1:04:30almost pick out yeah here's the the pro
1:04:33provocators
1:04:34planted by the government
1:04:35>> planted yeah okay that was my question
1:04:37>> planted by the government But I also
1:04:39noticed that there seemed to be and of
1:04:41course this is a a an oversimplified
1:04:45uh categorization but I kind of noticed
1:04:47that when you looked at the broad
1:04:49spectrum of people that were
1:04:50participating
1:04:52uh you had kind of two factions. On the
1:04:54one I call them the hippies and the
1:04:56other one was the Marxists.
1:04:59>> And from the the hippie side I got the
1:05:01impression these are just people who
1:05:03want the war over. There's no [snorts]
1:05:06other agenda. The Marxists, you always
1:05:08knew them. They always had their little
1:05:10red book of Mao, always quoting Mao like
1:05:13it's
1:05:15the word from on high or whatever, you
1:05:18know, spouting Marxist rhetoric. And I
1:05:21got the impression from those people,
1:05:22okay, this is a a a rationale for them
1:05:26to promote their agenda
1:05:28>> that goes beyond just trying to stop the
1:05:31war. There's other there's something
1:05:34else going on here, you know. And so I I
1:05:36kind of came away even as a you know
1:05:381920 21 year old that there was I kind
1:05:41of came away with that distinction. And
1:05:44of course I tended more towards the
1:05:45hippie side uh because I my thought was
1:05:49you know had by by that time by 6970
1:05:52I knew people that you know were killed
1:05:55over there and uh you know kids I'd
1:05:58grown up with and and had you know
1:06:00people coming back you know they done
1:06:02their tour of duty and they're coming
1:06:03back and they're going I you know knew
1:06:06people that like rah rah patriots that
1:06:08signed up you know and went over there
1:06:10to fight communism came back and said
1:06:12it's all [ __ ] Yeah.
1:06:14>> You know, um, so,
1:06:17uh, then in the aftermath of Vietnam,
1:06:21uh, there was a thing, you know, it came
1:06:23up in the Reagan administration. Oh,
1:06:24well, we need a an antidote to the
1:06:27Vietnam syndrome, which because by 7374,
1:06:32America was pretty much sick of war.
1:06:35>> It's just sick of war. We've had enough.
1:06:37And everybody knew somebody that had
1:06:40suffered some way more so than now. And
1:06:43that's why one reason they dropped they
1:06:46they discontinued they kept selective
1:06:49service but they got rid of the draft.
1:06:51And I figure well why are you keep
1:06:52you're getting rid of the draft but
1:06:53you're keeping selective service which
1:06:55suggests to me you're keeping the
1:06:57machinery in place to bring the draft
1:06:59back.
1:06:59>> Sure.
1:07:00>> Right. And now we see the first
1:07:01rumblings of in Congress you know
1:07:04there's talk about bringing the draft
1:07:06back. Well, I [clears throat] I hope
1:07:08not, but you know, that might be what it
1:07:10takes. I mean, heaven forbid, but you
1:07:14know, going back to the 60s and early
1:07:1870s, you know, the draft, because of the
1:07:20draft, you had all these soldiers that
1:07:22are going over there and who would who
1:07:25really didn't want to be there.
1:07:27>> And of course, they had no allegiance to
1:07:29the narrative at all. So they came back,
1:07:32you know, and had, you know, had a lot
1:07:35of negative things to say and and uh so
1:07:38I mean I think that was part of the
1:07:39philosophy of going to the all volunteer
1:07:41army.
1:07:41>> Sure.
1:07:42>> Because oh look, you you joined up of
1:07:44your own valition. Nobody forced you so
1:07:46shut up.
1:07:47>> Yeah.
1:07:47>> You know that was kind of the idea. Um
1:07:50and then you know Carter came in and and
1:07:55for a couple of years there it looked
1:07:57like you know dant we were we were
1:07:59talking to each other the uh you know
1:08:02the the the the the
1:08:04uh confrontation sort of resolved itself
1:08:07temporarily
1:08:09but then behind the scenes you had this
1:08:11whole thing with Afghanistan and you
1:08:14know the the plow who was it what was
1:08:16his name again? um he came up with the
1:08:18idea of hey if we can if we can uh
1:08:21somehow maneuver and manipulate the
1:08:23Soviet Union into invading Afghanistan
1:08:26that'll be like their Vietnam
1:08:27>> which in a way it was it kind of was but
1:08:31>> um you know that opened the whole door
1:08:33to a revival a revival of the cold war
1:08:37>> that after it had really subsided there
1:08:40uh in the 70s and then in 7879 with the
1:08:44invasion of Afghanistan it was all
1:08:47revived in the 1980 Olympics. You know,
1:08:50there was gonna we're going to boycott
1:08:51the Olympics because the Russians are in
1:08:53it. And I thought that was just
1:08:54ridiculous. But you know then Reagan
1:08:57came in and Reagan won the election on
1:08:59big part of it was you know military
1:09:01supremacy and he ramped up uh a whole
1:09:05new generation of of arms, nuclear arms
1:09:08um basically developing first strike
1:09:11capability which you know the transition
1:09:14from the 50s and 60s was mutual assured
1:09:17destruction.
1:09:19>> In other words, we've got these huge
1:09:20hydrogen bombs you know 10 megat tons.
1:09:23If we drop a 10 megat ton bomb on your
1:09:25city, your city is gone.
1:09:28>> Um, so you don't you don't dare attack
1:09:30us because if you attack us, we can
1:09:32retaliate. And this is when, you know,
1:09:34we developed the the the nuclear triad.
1:09:37So you got the forward-based bombers,
1:09:39you've got the intercontinental
1:09:40missiles, and then you've got the uh the
1:09:42submarine launched ballistic missiles,
1:09:44but all of those were not particularly
1:09:48accurate. But when you're talking a 10
1:09:49megat ton bomb, you don't really need
1:09:52accuracy. If you're going to take out a
1:09:53city, doesn't matter whether you
1:09:55>> sure
1:09:56>> falls right on the center of the city or
1:09:57a mile away, it doesn't matter.
1:10:00>> But if you're going to take out a
1:10:02missile silo or a hardened command and
1:10:04control center, then you've got to have
1:10:06accuracy, pinpoint accuracy, right? But
1:10:09here was the thing that I realized right
1:10:12away was I when I'm looking at, okay,
1:10:14the Persian 2, the new cruise missiles,
1:10:17the uh uh the Trident 3, the MX missile,
1:10:21they were all being designed for super
1:10:24accuracy.
1:10:25Okay, so here's the thing.
1:10:28If you are
1:10:30retaliating,
1:10:32if Russia had launched the the the first
1:10:35strike and we're retaliating,
1:10:38wait a sec. Mutual assured destruction
1:10:39is you don't dare attack us because we
1:10:42can destroy your whole society.
1:10:46But where does pinpoint accuracy come
1:10:48into the equation? Well, first of all,
1:10:51if we are responding to a first strike,
1:10:54the assumption is that, okay, if
1:10:57somebody's going to make a first strike,
1:10:59you think they'll just send over one or
1:11:01two,
1:11:02you know, delivery weapons and then or
1:11:06are they going to launch fullon and just
1:11:08in one fell swoop wipe us out. So, we we
1:11:11have no retaliatory capacity. So in that
1:11:14context, the super precise missile
1:11:17deliver or weapons uh delivery systems
1:11:20didn't make sense. They only made sense
1:11:22in the context of a first strike.
1:11:24>> Sure.
1:11:24>> Because what's the point of taking out a
1:11:27missile silo if the missiles missiles
1:11:29already been launched?
1:11:30>> And that was that was the development of
1:11:32the Reagan years. And when when he came
1:11:34out with the you know we we developed a
1:11:36we we shifted our whole strategy
1:11:39>> of our nuclear strategy from a response
1:11:43retaliatory to the idea of developing
1:11:46first strike capability. And where I was
1:11:49going was that strategic defense
1:11:51initiative made no sense um in in uh
1:11:55being a defense against a full-blown
1:11:58first strike coming from the Soviet
1:12:00Union. where it only made sense was uh
1:12:04like sort of a mopup operation.
1:12:06>> Sure.
1:12:06>> Where you might have oh whatever missile
1:12:08survived our first strike
1:12:11>> we would be able to intercept them. That
1:12:12was the whole rationale behind SDI.
1:12:15>> Um
1:12:16>> but then all of those plans were uh were
1:12:20interrupted by the collapse of the
1:12:22Soviet Union in the end of the cold war.
1:12:24So they had to regroup, restrategize and
1:12:27and find out come up with creative ways
1:12:30to keep the military budget rising. And
1:12:33they did. And they substituted the war
1:12:35against communism with the war on
1:12:37terrorism.
1:12:38>> Sure.
1:12:39>> So, but so I guess what I'm trying to
1:12:42get at here is that when we look at the
1:12:45news and and and mainstream media, we're
1:12:48given this image of what's going on. you
1:12:52know, obvious, you know, this this stuff
1:12:54is going on. We see the conflict in
1:12:56Ukraine. We see the conflicts in the
1:12:58Middle East.
1:13:00But really, I think the real action is
1:13:04what you don't see.
1:13:06>> Yeah.
1:13:06>> And I'm going to pass it back to you to
1:13:09talk about the the the whole network.
1:13:12>> Yeah.
1:13:12>> The subterranean ribosomeal network.
1:13:15>> Yeah. The mycelial network.
1:13:17>> The myal myelial network. Yes. This is
1:13:20where I was kind of going with this.
1:13:22Tell us about that.
1:13:23>> Yeah. Well, I mean, it connects
1:13:24everything, you know, like we wouldn't
1:13:26have any life without the mcelial
1:13:28network. It passes information and
1:13:30nutrients amongst plants and fungi, and
1:13:33it's it's, you know, uh interconnected
1:13:35web of information. It's the internet
1:13:38beneath the earth.
1:13:39>> It's the internet beneath the earth.
1:13:41See, that's perfect. Interconnected
1:13:43information. Yes. That it it it's a
1:13:46perfect metaphor, I think, almost. And
1:13:48it's it's all connected. And also on on
1:13:51that note too, like you know there
1:13:54there's the physical things that are
1:13:55going on behind the scenes that we don't
1:13:57see. But then there are the there's the
1:13:59energetic spiritual aspect of what's
1:14:02happening right now too that like you
1:14:04know part of things like this coming out
1:14:06and the and the narrative changing in
1:14:07people's minds and people starting to
1:14:09open up to what actually is going on in
1:14:11the world. like it's it's it's maybe the
1:14:13tip of this like energetic iceberg
1:14:16that's that we're like floating into or
1:14:18that's moving through us to to
1:14:20hopefully, you know, dismantle the old
1:14:22guard like we've been talking about and
1:14:24bring about something new that something
1:14:25that we've never never seen before. And,
1:14:27you know, I it it seems that it's either
1:14:30like something like that has to happen
1:14:31or we're going to be, you know, doomed.
1:14:33So, I really hope that that's the case,
1:14:35you know. [laughter]
1:14:36>> Well, we're Yeah. I mean, yes. I think
1:14:39that I really think we're at an
1:14:41inflection point now. And I think the
1:14:44things like what's going on in the
1:14:46Middle East, what's going on in Ukraine,
1:14:48what's going on in other hot spots
1:14:50around the world, co
1:14:53all of these things are showing us that
1:14:54we can't trust in the these antiquated
1:14:58structures of authority who who prosper
1:15:01and thrive by essentially keeping us in
1:15:04the dark.
1:15:04>> And and we've got this runaway system of
1:15:07the classification of information. And
1:15:10it's gotten just ridiculous the stuff
1:15:13that that is being classified. And the
1:15:16way I look at it is most of that
1:15:18classified information is about just
1:15:20protecting the hierarchy. That's what
1:15:22it's mainly about. And and
1:15:25>> I think it's time we just need to open
1:15:28the floodgates and and have a total
1:15:31disclosure about most everything.
1:15:33>> Oh yeah.
1:15:34>> I I can't fathom really. Okay. what
1:15:36explain to me what is it that is
1:15:38supposed to be kept secret
1:15:40>> you know and we have this cult of
1:15:42secrecy and and uh it it needs to change
1:15:46and I think we are on that point where
1:15:50you know as as we're talking about I I
1:15:52think you know we need to reach out and
1:15:54say okay you and say to people in Russia
1:15:58the people not the leaders the people we
1:16:00aren't enemies
1:16:02>> you know we're all on this planet
1:16:03together we all face the same problems,
1:16:06the same challenges, and uh we're not
1:16:09enemies. Don't let our governments turn
1:16:12us into enemies.
1:16:14>> Of course,
1:16:14>> cuz we're not.
1:16:15>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:16:16>> And uh I think this is going to help.
1:16:19>> Yeah.
1:16:20>> This is going to help.
1:16:21>> For sure. It really is.
1:16:22>> Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's it's back
1:16:24to, you know, what you said the
1:16:26psychedelics did for you in the early
1:16:28days, like it it helps you see through
1:16:30the propaganda. It becomes, you know,
1:16:32obsolete at that point. and and this
1:16:34this mushroom does it in a in its own
1:16:37very specific and peculiar and beautiful
1:16:40way, but it does it does the same thing
1:16:42just differently. You know, it also one
1:16:44of, you know, I I back to like this idea
1:16:47of, you know, they've been we we've had
1:16:50misinformation, disinformation or being
1:16:52kept in the dark pushed on us for
1:16:54thousands and thousands of years. And
1:16:56interestingly enough, this mushroom is
1:16:57one of the earliest, you know, pieces of
1:17:00evidence that I know of this. And that's
1:17:02that myth that it's toxic and poisonous,
1:17:04which from the research that I've done
1:17:06seems to have been perpetuated for
1:17:08hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of
1:17:10years, likely since the Crusades, maybe
1:17:12even before that. And it's this is a
1:17:14hypothesis, I don't know, but it seems
1:17:16to make sense. It's like if you have
1:17:17this mushroom that had its ties into
1:17:20well I mean it's very prevalent in in
1:17:23most paganism around the world paganism
1:17:25it ties into early Christianity it ties
1:17:28into you know all a lot of the major
1:17:30religions and it's being utilized and
1:17:32it's helping people break free from from
1:17:34the propaganda machine that's been
1:17:37perpetuated for thousands of years.
1:17:39>> Propaganda machine.
1:17:40>> Yeah. Like what do you do? They couldn't
1:17:42they weren't classifying plants back
1:17:44then, you and they weren't making drugs
1:17:46plants illegal. So what do you do? You
1:17:48label something as toxic and poisonous
1:17:50when it's when it's not. And you
1:17:52perpetuate that myth across the lands
1:17:54and and that that's my theory to why
1:17:56ammonita has been labeled as toxic and
1:17:58poisonous. and and they use so there's
1:18:00there's this is this is a good thing to
1:18:02discuss too because some people that are
1:18:04more researched on the mushroom itself
1:18:05might have some some counterattacks to
1:18:08what I've just said because ibotenic
1:18:10acid inver it it it's used in laboratory
1:18:13settings to induce brain lesions in mice
1:18:16but what they do is they inject copious
1:18:18amounts of ibotenic acid we're talking
1:18:20like this bag is 15 grams we're talking
1:18:23like kilos worth of isolated synthesized
1:18:26ibotic acid direct directly into the
1:18:29brain. So, it's not having to be
1:18:30digested, metabolized, go across the
1:18:32bloodb brain barrier directly into the
1:18:33brain and it's producing brain lesions
1:18:35and they're saying it's neurotoxic. And
1:18:36it's like, this is a hit study done, I
1:18:38think in the '9s or early 2000s, maybe
1:18:40before then. But, and it's like, well,
1:18:41yeah, if you like injected my brain with
1:18:4450 grams of ibuprofen, you know, like
1:18:47it's probably not going to do something
1:18:48good in there, you know, probably not
1:18:50going to be great. Um, and so that was,
1:18:52you know, that's that's something that's
1:18:54perpetuated that narrative when the
1:18:56actual data shows that like it's
1:18:58actually not neurotoxic at all in the
1:18:59doses that people are actually consuming
1:19:01it with. You need to consume kilos of it
1:19:03to get to that level. But yeah, it's
1:19:05interesting like the the concept that
1:19:08they would have like spread this myth a
1:19:10thousand years ago or however long ago,
1:19:12you know, to keep people away from from
1:19:14the mushroom. Well, I I kind of see some
1:19:17analogies there with the whole Masonic
1:19:19thing and how that has been we we see
1:19:21that being twisted right now. Um, you
1:19:24know, the secrecy almost as if the
1:19:26secrecy within the Masonic order is
1:19:29directly comparable to the secrecy of
1:19:32the of the of the all powerful state.
1:19:36>> When in fact, the secrecy of Freemasonry
1:19:38was a strategy to survive against
1:19:42>> Yeah. the the depradations of the all
1:19:44powerful state.
1:19:46>> Yeah.
1:19:46>> Uh you know, all you have to do is cite
1:19:48the example of every time you get a
1:19:50dictatorial or or totalitarian
1:19:53government, Freemasonry is one of the
1:19:55first things to be outlawed.
1:19:57>> When when Hitler became chancellor of
1:19:59Germany, [clears throat]
1:20:00>> he outlawed Freemasonry. When Stalin
1:20:03became
1:20:04>> the the uh
1:20:06in the dictator of Russia, first thing
1:20:09he did, outlawed Freemasonry. And this
1:20:11is a a pattern that you see. And the
1:20:14free and the secrecy of Freemasonry was
1:20:16again a strategy to survive. Yeah. And I
1:20:19think from my own experience and and
1:20:21becoming familiar with the this vast
1:20:24body of symbolism
1:20:26um and encoded information that you know
1:20:29that that that the Masonic knowledge has
1:20:32been handed down from the middle ages
1:20:34and uh from generation to generation
1:20:38without ver anybody really understanding
1:20:43>> what they what they what they were
1:20:45custodians of
1:20:46>> but they've served the purpose by taking
1:20:49it from one generation, preserving it
1:20:51and handing it on to the next generation
1:20:53for centuries now.
1:20:55>> And as we sit here and talk about, you
1:20:57know, the possibility of there being a
1:20:59DMT connection,
1:21:01>> you know, nobody when I went into the
1:21:03craft in the 70s had even the remotest
1:21:06concept of of a connection like that.
1:21:09>> Um,
1:21:11>> so I think that, you know, it's a lot of
1:21:13that is going to be unpacked in in the
1:21:16very near future. Um, if we can get
1:21:19through this utter complete nonsense
1:21:22that's being posted on on online.
1:21:25>> Yeah.
1:21:26>> And I I point out, you know, people who
1:21:27are trying to invoke, you know, that
1:21:30some, you know, Freemasons are, you
1:21:31know, the puppet masters and control.
1:21:34Now, look, we haven't had a Masonic
1:21:36president since Gerald Ford,
1:21:38>> you know, uh, you know, I've seen things
1:21:40where shows pictures of of George HW
1:21:45Bush and and George W. Bush like as if
1:21:48there they were never Freemasons. None
1:21:50of the neocons that I know of, I have
1:21:52investigated. I could find none of them
1:21:54that were Freemasons. Right.
1:21:56>> Because one of the central tenants of
1:21:58Freemasonry is the Brotherhood of Man.
1:22:00>> Sure.
1:22:00>> Right.
1:22:01>> And uh so, you know, it's just it's
1:22:04nonsense and it's just too bad that that
1:22:07you know, somebody something like that
1:22:09is is being defamed in the way it is.
1:22:13Um, and so I think, you know, when we
1:22:15talk about people like Tim Hogan and
1:22:17Scott Walter and and and you know, I
1:22:20think that it's going to be coming
1:22:21around, I think we've got to sort of
1:22:23reverse this descent into silliness.
1:22:27>> Uh, you know, I point out that, you
1:22:29know, well, yeah, we know pretty certain
1:22:32that 14 of American presidents were were
1:22:35Freemasons. Going back to George
1:22:37Washington, of course,
1:22:38>> like I said, the last one was Gerald
1:22:40Ford.
1:22:42uh you know a lot of them you know and
1:22:44of course [clears throat] when you go
1:22:46back um you know a generation a couple
1:22:49of generations ago Freemasonry at least
1:22:52in America reached its peak right after
1:22:53World War II
1:22:55>> and there was about 5 million Freemasons
1:22:57I think in the world well if you
1:22:59[clears throat] have an a an institution
1:23:01or an organization with 5 million people
1:23:04yeah you think you're not going to have
1:23:06a few in there a few
1:23:07>> sure rotten apples of course you are and
1:23:10people you know who are who are driven
1:23:12mainly by ambitional look and oh okay I
1:23:14can I can make all kinds of business
1:23:17contacts and and and knowing that you go
1:23:19into this craft you've got a a
1:23:22philosophy behind the craft of basically
1:23:25square dealing I mean right embedded in
1:23:27our language you know we we we you know
1:23:30you and I do business together at the
1:23:32conclusion we go
1:23:33>> y
1:23:33>> are we square
1:23:35>> straight out of the craft ritual or you
1:23:38tell me something and I'm okay are you
1:23:40on the level meaning sure I mean we
1:23:42could go on with the metaphors. This is
1:23:44the philosophy of Freemasonry, right?
1:23:47>> Well, so you got 14 presidents that were
1:23:50Freemasons. You got, you know, Benjamin
1:23:51Franklin. If you think that Freemasons
1:23:54were this evil institution, puppet man.
1:23:56Well, if they're Satan worshippers and
1:23:59drinking children's blood or whatever or
1:24:01you think George Washington was drinking
1:24:03children's blood, Benjamin Franklin, you
1:24:06know, Paul Rivere, heroes of the
1:24:08revolution, John Hancock, they were all
1:24:10Freemasons, right?
1:24:12>> And and and a lot of the ideas that were
1:24:15transplanted by the founding fathers
1:24:18into, you know, our democratic republic,
1:24:21well, you look and they've got their
1:24:22counterparts right there in Freemason in
1:24:24the middle ages. what institution would
1:24:27would elect their leaders one per one
1:24:29man one vote you know it provided a
1:24:32model but so yeah okay 14 presidents but
1:24:36here's here's an alternative fact 23
1:24:40American presidents were Episcopalians
1:24:43>> do you know that I didn't
1:24:44>> yeah it's a fact
1:24:45>> I read 23 of them were episcipalian so
1:24:48what that tells me is if if there is
1:24:50some sinister group behind the scenes
1:24:54manipulating
1:24:55with the puppet strings. It's got to be
1:24:56the Episcopal course, right? Yeah, of
1:24:59course.
1:25:00>> I mean,
1:25:02so, but no, to me that just sort of
1:25:04underscores how ridiculous some of this
1:25:06stuff is. And it's too bad because it's
1:25:09just distracting. And I've met a lot of
1:25:11younger people that that like don't know
1:25:13what to think.
1:25:14>> Sure.
1:25:14>> Because this proliferation
1:25:16>> most young people don't know what to
1:25:17think, you know?
1:25:18>> Right. Well, that's Yeah, that's true.
1:25:20And that's why we need this. But yeah, I
1:25:22I I'm just, you know, when I entered
1:25:26Freemasonry in 78, you didn't have the
1:25:28internet. So, you didn't have this
1:25:31proliferation of this these ridiculous
1:25:33conspiracy theories. And and and then
1:25:36I'll I'll drop it because we want to
1:25:37move on to talking about the mythical
1:25:40substrate of of this whole thing. But I
1:25:43think the point is is that when you have
1:25:46those who are actually concocting real
1:25:49conspiracies, oh, and you can't study
1:25:51history and and conclude that yeah,
1:25:55there that conspiracies are not real.
1:25:58Yeah.
1:25:58>> Right. Those who covet power, those who
1:26:01have power, they're always going to be
1:26:03doing what they need to do to
1:26:06>> Right. Um
1:26:09but see, here's the thing. When you have
1:26:10these what I think of as fake conspiracy
1:26:13theories, [clears throat] now you get
1:26:14everybody's over here, you know,
1:26:16thinking this or that, you know, these
1:26:18conspiracy theories because it's turning
1:26:20the attention away from the real ones.
1:26:23>> Yep.
1:26:23>> That's what it's doing.
1:26:24>> Yeah. People CIA people have come out
1:26:26and talked about that specifically like,
1:26:28oh yeah, we put out misinformation to
1:26:30deter people from, you know,
1:26:31>> Yes. deliberately putting out
1:26:33misinformation. You know, that's how I
1:26:34kind of look at the whole climate
1:26:36crisis. You know, I see lots of these
1:26:39groups of younger people. They they mean
1:26:41well. They believe they're doing we're
1:26:43saving the planet.
1:26:45>> But look, the weather has been
1:26:47weaponized and you guys are over here
1:26:50thinking we're in climate crisis, but
1:26:52really we're on the verge of World War
1:26:53II.
1:26:54>> Yeah.
1:26:55>> There's a real crisis brewing.
1:26:56>> Yeah.
1:26:57>> And it it ain't 100 parts per million of
1:26:59carbon dioxide,
1:27:01>> you know.
1:27:02>> Yeah. Anyhow, [clears throat and cough]
1:27:03let's get back to the idea of um because
1:27:06I mean it it's almost seems universal.
1:27:08There is this level of really in my mind
1:27:12sophisticated
1:27:13potent knowledge that has come to us via
1:27:17the vehicle of mythology and legends and
1:27:20folklore.
1:27:21>> Yep.
1:27:22>> And uh would you like to address
1:27:24>> Yeah. I mean, yeah, of course. It's it's
1:27:26and it it kind of goes, you know, one of
1:27:28the discussions we were having
1:27:30yesterday, I believe, was about how
1:27:32there's always like in the heroes,
1:27:35there's always the other world, right?
1:27:37There's the other side, which could be
1:27:39the heavens. It could be the underworld.
1:27:40It could be whatever. It could be the
1:27:41micelial network. It's I guess it
1:27:43depends on how you want to look at it.
1:27:45And there's probably lots of different
1:27:46other worlds. But but then you know
1:27:49through the vehicle of of storytelling
1:27:52and mythology we we dictate how the
1:27:56physical world is operated and ran,
1:27:59right? So like and you know and then it
1:28:02ties back to what we're just talking
1:28:03about like the the people that are
1:28:04telling the stories or or putting the
1:28:06information out that gets believed on a
1:28:08mass scale are the actual ones that are
1:28:10driving history and driving the future
1:28:12and and Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's it's
1:28:16Yeah, it's it's a it's a fascinating
1:28:19subject that that I think is, you know,
1:28:22starting to I mean I think psychedelics
1:28:24and stuff like tap you directly into
1:28:26that, right? So, it's hard to not see
1:28:29once you've gone through that and it's
1:28:32hard to it's even it becomes hard to
1:28:34imagine not being able to see it once
1:28:36you've gone through those experiences,
1:28:38you know. Um but yeah. Yeah. Yep. It's a
1:28:42it's it's a part of reality for sure.
1:28:44when I I you know I was pretty
1:28:46[clears throat] young when I did my
1:28:47first psychedelic trip of 17 years old,
1:28:52excuse me, [cough and clears throat]
1:28:52which actually looking back I think was
1:28:54really probably the ideal time for me
1:28:56because I was not set into any
1:28:59particular ideology or any models of
1:29:01reality. I was totally open and
1:29:04exploring. But I'd had a good friend for
1:29:06a year uh prior over a year prior to my
1:29:10very first experience who had who had uh
1:29:13this was when I was living in Louisiana
1:29:15and he just moved from California and he
1:29:17had already had multiple experiences. So
1:29:19he's always telling me about him and
1:29:22[clears throat and cough] I kind of came
1:29:23to think I kind of understood and could
1:29:26imagine what what the experience was
1:29:29like you know and then I I commented
1:29:32that I [clears throat and cough] had
1:29:34contemplated doing it but never actually
1:29:36proactively moved towards towards it and
1:29:40then I went and saw the movie that had
1:29:43just come out then in ' 68 uh 2001 a
1:29:46space odyssey right
1:29:48>> so you know the climax acts of that is
1:29:50when he's going through this time space
1:29:52tunnel whatever with the with these
1:29:55incredible special effects as I'm
1:29:56watching go wonder if wonder psychedelic
1:30:00experience like this I don't know well
1:30:03so seeing that prompted me to go you
1:30:06know what I think I want to try it
1:30:08>> so I actually procured couple of hits of
1:30:12LSD
1:30:13>> and it was purple haze
1:30:18>> concoction
1:30:19Stanley and and uh I believe the subject
1:30:23of Jimmyi Hendricks's
1:30:25>> sure
1:30:25>> song that I'd listened to a million
1:30:27times up to that point.
1:30:30>> So me and three buddies decided to go
1:30:33out and uh but I only had two hits. So
1:30:36was me and one of the guys and the other
1:30:39two didn't didn't have any and we go to
1:30:41this club where they're playing rock
1:30:43music and they've got lights and stuff.
1:30:44not a live band, but it was a, you know,
1:30:47you know, kids there dancing and all of
1:30:49this. [clears throat and cough]
1:30:50Me and my my buddy take the stuff and
1:30:54uh, you know, we get there and I'm and I
1:30:57come on to it and the two the two guys
1:31:00that were not, you know, we're not
1:31:04hadn't taken any would were coming up to
1:31:06me go, "Well, what's are you are you
1:31:08feeling it? What's it like?" And I'm
1:31:12just
1:31:13and all I could say was
1:31:15>> this isn't what I expected.
1:31:18>> This is not what I expected.
1:31:20>> And I was thinking I'm, you know, going
1:31:21to have all these hallucinations. I
1:31:23didn't have any hallucinations. I just
1:31:24looked at everybody and it was like
1:31:27everybody was wearing a mask.
1:31:29>> Everybody was wearing a mask and I could
1:31:32and how could I have not seen this
1:31:33before, you know? And from that point on
1:31:36it was like none of the normal stuff of
1:31:38you know high school and you know who
1:31:41was popular and what click none of that.
1:31:44Y
1:31:44>> I was so far beyond that and that
1:31:48launched me. I went I [clears throat]
1:31:49got to understand what I just what
1:31:51happened. So I this book had come out
1:31:53just called private the private se LSD
1:31:57and the search for God.
1:31:59I was off and running in that direction.
1:32:02And uh over the next year and a half,
1:32:05you know, I did and then I did quite a
1:32:07bit of masculine.
1:32:07>> Yeah. We talked about
1:32:08>> and uh the one most amazing experience I
1:32:11had with masculine, we were camping out.
1:32:13I'm out on the shores of a beautiful
1:32:15little lake in the in a grove of trees.
1:32:18I come on and it was like I became
1:32:22dislodged from the space-time continuum.
1:32:25And it was like I was time traveling and
1:32:28I'm I'm in Egypt, then I'm in Central
1:32:30America, then I'm in, you know, Ankor
1:32:33Watt. But it wasn't Egypt. It wasn't
1:32:36Anchor Watt. It was like the
1:32:38>> the archetype behind all of these
1:32:41things. And I'm going through and
1:32:42everything is
1:32:43>> transforming and evolving. And it was
1:32:45like I literally felt like I'd been on a
1:32:47five or six year journey through space
1:32:49time to the fundamental archetypes
1:32:53>> that had motivated our ancestors. And
1:32:55then of course I circled back around and
1:32:58began to reconsider,
1:33:01>> you know, what you were talking about
1:33:02legends and stories and mythology. You
1:33:05know, read Merier Iliotti,
1:33:08uh, you know, read Carl Jung. I looked
1:33:12into all of the the the the the psychic
1:33:15work that was happening then. You had
1:33:16the the um human potential movement. You
1:33:19had um Fritz Pearls, you had Maslo, we
1:33:23mentioned earlier um Lily, um RD Lang
1:33:28who more experiential and um just
1:33:31immerse myself into all of that to try
1:33:33to understand and then of course going
1:33:36into reading, you know, that's when I
1:33:38read this book here
1:33:40>> probably. It's so long ago now that I
1:33:42really need to reread it. Um
1:33:45>> and read John Allegro's book. Um, and
1:33:49then you know Liry's work. Um, you know,
1:33:52I went to a lecture, met Liry briefly in
1:33:54the early '7s at a lecture right after
1:33:57he got released from
1:33:58>> Oh, cool.
1:33:59>> prison. Um, I met Ralph Metsner who was
1:34:03one of his associates at Harvard, one of
1:34:05the three, him and
1:34:07>> him and uh,
1:34:09>> uh, Richard Albert.
1:34:11>> Yeah.
1:34:11>> They Ramdas. Yeah. They all got booted
1:34:15from Harvard because of their
1:34:16experimentation and so forth, which you
1:34:19know was ridiculous.
1:34:20>> But um yeah, so I I actually did meet
1:34:23all three of them briefly had that, you
1:34:25know, and I got,
1:34:26>> you know, I've got the original book
1:34:28they put out, the psychedelic
1:34:29experience.
1:34:30>> So I use that kind of as a guide book,
1:34:33you know, but of course it's all based
1:34:34on derivative Tibetan Buddhism.
1:34:36>> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So then you know
1:34:38explored religions and and you know I I
1:34:41I dove into Sufism and then I had the
1:34:44opportunity to study with a Sufi master
1:34:46for a couple of years off and on for you
1:34:49know every couple of months he would be
1:34:51putting on retreats and workshop. That's
1:34:53how I got started in drumming. Actually
1:34:55I got my first percussion lessons from
1:34:58from a Sufi master and got my first
1:35:00doom. But um yeah, so I I you know
1:35:04really began to immerse myself into
1:35:06mythology. Read well as a kid I was
1:35:09fascinated by Greek mythology and uh
1:35:13Norse mythology
1:35:14>> and you know immersing myself into the
1:35:16whole you know the Fenro wolf and the
1:35:19Midgard serpent and the you know the
1:35:21Ragnarok and
1:35:23>> blew my mind at 10 years old like trying
1:35:25to envision that.
1:35:26>> Yeah. Of course, now fast forward by 10,
1:35:3015 years, I'm convinced that mythology
1:35:33is a vehicle.
1:35:34>> Absolutely.
1:35:35>> A vehicle for car and we use symbolism
1:35:39in science. It's a different type of
1:35:42symbolism, but all of the scientific
1:35:44concepts are encoded in a symbolical
1:35:46language.
1:35:48>> I came to believe that mythology was a
1:35:50symbolical language.
1:35:51>> 100%. Yep. Absolutely.
1:35:53>> Yeah.
1:35:53>> Absolutely. So
1:35:56you probably have some insight. You
1:35:57probably followed that same route of
1:35:59thinking.
1:35:59>> Yeah. Well, I I I don't think that one
1:36:01can like actually truly experience that
1:36:06other realm, right, the other world,
1:36:08psychedelics, without at least gaining a
1:36:12lot of interest in this type of thing
1:36:13and like changing the way that they that
1:36:15they operate in the world. And it's it's
1:36:17so it seems so apparent, especially with
1:36:20so much work that's coming out now, that
1:36:23that [clears throat] Psychedelics were
1:36:24not just like a part of culture back in
1:36:27the day. They were like an
1:36:28extraordinarily integral part.
1:36:31>> Yes.
1:36:31>> And and you know I mean like all all
1:36:33>> shamanism is the world's earliest
1:36:35religion, right? And like shamanism
1:36:37comes from altered states of
1:36:38consciousness. And it it it makes sense
1:36:40that that religious movements in general
1:36:43have come from these altered states of
1:36:44consciousness. And it makes sense that,
1:36:46you know, altered states of
1:36:48consciousness guided humanity for for
1:36:52since our inception, you know, and Yeah.
1:36:54Yeah. And then another, you know, it's
1:36:56also like we're talking about symbolism
1:36:59and stuff like this this mushroom in
1:37:02particular, like it's in it's it's the
1:37:05mushroom in Mario, Alice in Wonderland,
1:37:07the Smurfs live under them. Mushroom
1:37:09emoji on your phone. It's arguably one
1:37:11of the most iconic symbols in the world.
1:37:13you know, the red mushroom with white
1:37:14dots. And then there's like I we've done
1:37:16experiments too where we ask young kids
1:37:19to draw a mushroom and like sure they
1:37:21they've probably seen it, you know, in
1:37:22in their TV shows and stuff, but like
1:37:25>> they're always drawing a mushroom with
1:37:26dots on it. It might be purple, it might
1:37:28be green, might be red, but it's always
1:37:30the ammonita mascara. And then it's like
1:37:33so there's this this symbolic narrative
1:37:35that's carried on for for years and
1:37:37years and years. And then another
1:37:38another fun point is in in stories the
1:37:41mushroom shows up when the story takes
1:37:44the the turn from the ordinary to the
1:37:46extraordinary. And right now it's
1:37:48starting to pop up again as like humans
1:37:50are starting to awaken and and see the
1:37:53the fallacy of the world that we live
1:37:55in. And it's almost as if it's like part
1:37:58of the evolving mythos that's guiding,
1:38:01you know, humanity and been guiding
1:38:03humanity and and this new story is like
1:38:06is becoming extraordinary as as it
1:38:09starts to come out into the public and
1:38:11just really, you know, and Jack Jack
1:38:14Herrera would say that like the shifting
1:38:16in in the book basically he says that
1:38:19the second coming, not second coming of
1:38:21Christ, not like um you know a lot of
1:38:24the the newagers think it's Christ
1:38:25consciousness and like I'm I'm all I can
1:38:27back that up 100%. But what he says is
1:38:29that it's it's psychedelics and ammonita
1:38:32>> coming back onto the world at large
1:38:35which could spark that you know
1:38:39>> existing partly in other and existing
1:38:41you know partly here and and integrating
1:38:43these concepts of of love and higher
1:38:46level thinking and compassion and and
1:38:49sacred commerce or evolutionary
1:38:50capitalism. I like that one. That's a
1:38:52good one. Um but yeah and it just it
1:38:55just makes so much sense and like I mean
1:38:57Graham talks about Graham Hancock talks
1:38:59about how like you know the the Iwasa
1:39:02vines are like penetrating out from the
1:39:04jungle into the lands across the world
1:39:07and it's same with this the mcelial
1:39:08network is penetrating across the world
1:39:10and like coming to awaken people to to
1:39:13this new potential and and a lot of the
1:39:16the traditional psychedelics tap you
1:39:18into you know that other world where
1:39:21Amanita seems to instead of it's not
1:39:24like psychedelic in the traditional
1:39:25sense. You're not you're not like having
1:39:28visions or anything like that, but what
1:39:30it does is it seems to anchor that other
1:39:33world into your physical body. And then
1:39:36it helps helps with a lot of, you know,
1:39:38physical things, anxiety, you know, a
1:39:39lot of people take it for anxiety or
1:39:41sleep as you mentioned, but it seems to
1:39:43help integrate that extraordinary into
1:39:48the ordinary body. Not that our bodies
1:39:50aren't extraordinary, but you know what
1:39:51I mean. Yeah.
1:39:52>> And so it's a unique it's a very unique
1:39:55mushroom in that regards. It's unlike
1:39:56anything else that's out there and it it
1:39:58functions very differently
1:39:59pharmacologically, experientially, but
1:40:02it seems to be almost where if if those
1:40:04other the other medicines take you into
1:40:07the other world briefly and then bring
1:40:09you back. This almost seems to be the
1:40:11bridge that you can walk across to and
1:40:13stay in between, you know, the other
1:40:14world and and this world.
1:40:15>> Now that is a very interesting metaphor.
1:40:18>> Yeah.
1:40:18>> Yeah. Well, I I look back, you know, and
1:40:21I I look at 16-year-old me. I was a
1:40:24troublemaker. I was mad at the world. Uh
1:40:28I hated school. I hung out with the
1:40:31wrong people.
1:40:33Then the 17-year-old me has a
1:40:35psychedelic experience. And like that,
1:40:38I'm flipped like the search for God.
1:40:42>> And I'm thinking, okay, how many
1:40:4317year-olds suddenly decide to dedicate
1:40:46their life to the search for God? But it
1:40:48was that experience that that that
1:40:51triggered that. Now I was I think I was
1:40:53prone because I was so immersed in I had
1:40:56grown up in a rural environment, loved
1:40:58the outdoors, loved nature, I read a
1:41:01lot. So I had read a lot of mythology.
1:41:04Sure.
1:41:04>> Uh mostly, you know, Greek and and and
1:41:07and Norse, like I said, and um always
1:41:11interested in fantasy and all of that.
1:41:13So it kind of prepped me like I
1:41:15mentioned when we were driving today,
1:41:17you know, that I read a whole lot, but
1:41:19that year before that first experience,
1:41:21I read almost exclusively science
1:41:24fiction, which kind of bends your mind
1:41:26to, you know, embracing these large
1:41:29larger concepts. And uh it sort of and
1:41:33then seeing you know what at the time
1:41:35was one of the preeminent science
1:41:37fiction movies ever produced at that
1:41:39time 2001 which really did I remember
1:41:42walking out of the theater
1:41:45round theater cuz it was one of the big
1:41:47you know round screens you know where
1:41:49you're totally immersed and thinking God
1:41:51I wonder if that's what psychedelics are
1:41:54like and that's kind of when I made the
1:41:56decision yeah I got I'm going to try
1:41:58that you know cuz my friend it had like
1:42:01raving about it for, you know, over a
1:42:04year that that he and I were best
1:42:06buddies. And uh so I finally thought,
1:42:09"Okay, yeah, I'm going to try it." And
1:42:10then when I did, I was it just
1:42:12completely altered my whole perception
1:42:14of
1:42:15>> Yeah.
1:42:15>> the world, my my of of the universe, my
1:42:18interactions with my fellow human
1:42:20beings. I mean, I went back, it was
1:42:23probably a Friday or Saturday night, you
1:42:25know, that we did this. I went back to
1:42:27and it was fall of of of 68. I went back
1:42:30to to high school. I was not the same
1:42:33person Monday of course
1:42:35>> as I was Friday.
1:42:36>> Yep.
1:42:37>> I'm like looking at everything
1:42:38different.
1:42:39>> Mhm. Yeah. You can't you can't put that
1:42:42mask back on, you know.
1:42:43>> No. But but I didn't want to. I was
1:42:45like, "Wow, I you know, this has opened
1:42:47up vistas that I I had never even
1:42:50imagined."
1:42:50>> Yeah.
1:42:51>> And I wanted more. I wanted to I wanted
1:42:53to see more.
1:42:54>> Mhm. Yeah. And I did until, you know,
1:42:57things, you know, I was lucky because I
1:43:00was in a position where I had access to
1:43:02some, you know, good things, good stuff,
1:43:06uh, for a year, year and a half. And
1:43:08then, you know, it it shifted and I
1:43:11didn't have that anymore. And I got
1:43:12scared of what was out there. I didn't
1:43:14want to get stuff off the street. And
1:43:16>> but I always felt like
1:43:18>> I was right on the verge of like the the
1:43:20next level. M I had gone actually summer
1:43:23of ' 69 I had gone on this camping trip
1:43:26in in southwestern Minnesota the
1:43:29beautiful rolling prairie
1:43:31it was [clears throat]
1:43:33it was on a ridge I can actually show
1:43:35you on a map it's on topographic high
1:43:37and you look to the west and the prairie
1:43:40just rolls away into so far in the
1:43:43distance you almost can't even
1:43:45>> tell where the the where you know earth
1:43:48meets sky and you as you look you'll see
1:43:51like, you know, groves of trees. You'll
1:43:53see crop lands, you'll see the farms out
1:43:56there, you and you get this sense of
1:43:58perspective. And then where I was at was
1:44:01a a a bison reserve. Come on. So, I'm
1:44:07just like completely
1:44:09like one with, you know, looking and of
1:44:12course looking to the west, you got
1:44:13these huge uh weather systems like
1:44:16rolling in and and the clouds would part
1:44:19and the sun's rays would come down and
1:44:21illuminate the landscape and I mean it
1:44:23was like I thought
1:44:25>> this is heaven.
1:44:26>> Yeah,
1:44:27>> this is heaven. I expected any moment I
1:44:29was going to see angels descending from
1:44:31the from the clouds, you know. And just
1:44:35I I literally in a state of total
1:44:37ecstasy at the perfection of creation.
1:44:40And then what happened was this huge
1:44:43storm rolls in. And I'm watching this
1:44:46thing come in over the western horizon.
1:44:48And the power of it was just
1:44:50overwhelming. And as I'm sitting there,
1:44:53this bison herd that had been kind of
1:44:55farred off in the distance, just little
1:44:58black lumps. I didn't even know they
1:45:00were bison in my state of mind. They are
1:45:03hurrying back cuz they're going back.
1:45:04It's near the Pipstone River. Okay.
1:45:06>> Pipstone River was where the the Plains
1:45:10Indians quarried the clay stone that
1:45:13they carved into their ceremonial pipes
1:45:16>> and it was considered to be so sacred
1:45:18that even waring tribes
1:45:21>> uh respected the the the sanctity of
1:45:24that. So that probably had something to
1:45:26do with it that I'm sitting right. But
1:45:29as this buffalo herd is coming by, you
1:45:32know, it's like I was like seeing them
1:45:35coming, you know, these big looming
1:45:36shapes getting larger and larger, you
1:45:39know, and the clouds building up behind
1:45:41them. And they were hurrying back to get
1:45:43down by the river valley to get shelter.
1:45:46But literally, I'm sitting there and
1:45:48this buffalo herd is just, they weren't
1:45:50paying any attention to me. I'm just
1:45:51sitting there and they're walking. I
1:45:52could have reached out and petted them
1:45:54as they walked by.
1:45:55>> Wow.
1:45:56But there was I had this very distinct
1:45:59impression that there were the spirits
1:46:01of the native peoples
1:46:04>> embodied in in these beasts
1:46:06>> in the buffalo.
1:46:06>> In the buffalo. Yes.
1:46:08>> I don't know how to explain it, but
1:46:10that's
1:46:11>> I can understand that. Yeah.
1:46:12>> Yeah. I I'm sure you can. They hurried
1:46:14by and then,
1:46:17you know, probably 20 minutes later, all
1:46:18hell broke loose.
1:46:20>> The weather just
1:46:21>> the weather. I mean, and so I'm sitting
1:46:23there and it's I'm looking out over the
1:46:26prairie and I see these huge lightning
1:46:29bolts coming down. First one, you know,
1:46:33just, you know, and and you I guess that
1:46:35it was affecting the ozone or something.
1:46:37I don't know. But uh then another one
1:46:40and then another one. And pretty soon I
1:46:42could see like three or four huge
1:46:44lightning bolts coming down at all at at
1:46:46any given moment. And then it started
1:46:49hailing and I thought, you know what? I
1:46:51probably better get in shelter probably.
1:46:54>> So, uh, so I turned around, went back
1:46:56and we we me and Rowan, my brother, he
1:46:59was there, you know. Um, my best friend
1:47:02from high school and his brother and our
1:47:04other brother. Uh, so we were we had
1:47:08driven out in this big black panel truck
1:47:10driven from that morning uh, from
1:47:12Minneapolis down to southwestern
1:47:15um, Minnesota. And then, you know, had
1:47:18to take shelter in in, you know, oh, and
1:47:20as I'm coming back, the the the the
1:47:23front the weather front hits and they
1:47:26had been setting up while I'm over there
1:47:27in this state of revery. They're back
1:47:30there setting up the tent, right? We had
1:47:32a big, you know, tent. It was like sleep
1:47:35eight people or something. Just as I'm
1:47:36coming back, the wind comes in and
1:47:38they're struggling to to hold down the
1:47:41tent. It just gets ripped out of their
1:47:43hands and I watched the tent just
1:47:45disappear up into the sky.
1:47:47>> Right.
1:47:47>> So that's took refuge in the uh in the
1:47:52truck.
1:47:52>> Yeah.
1:47:53>> And and you know, looking out the window
1:47:55at at this whole just the un power of
1:47:59nature was what it was about. And so
1:48:02finally, you know, the the even the
1:48:04night is over. We're all kind of coming
1:48:06down. You're in that post
1:48:08>> state, you know. I get out and I go I
1:48:11walk down by the river
1:48:13and there was sitting on a an outcrop
1:48:17there right next to the river maybe 3 ft
1:48:19off of the water level and it's this
1:48:22heavy mist
1:48:24>> hanging over the water
1:48:26>> and I hear [clears throat] this little
1:48:28tinkling something moving in the water
1:48:32and I'm listening and listening and I
1:48:34can hear it. It kind of gets a little
1:48:36louder and then gets a little louder and
1:48:37then I see the shape moving in the in
1:48:41the mist and the mist was really thick.
1:48:43You couldn't see the water.
1:48:44>> Sure.
1:48:45>> Um and I see it going back and forth and
1:48:49it was like moving in a zigzag pattern
1:48:51and every zig or zag it was coming
1:48:54closer and closer and what am I seeing?
1:48:58Trying to make out what it was. And then
1:48:59it finally comes up right there. I'm
1:49:02sitting right up on the edge of the rock
1:49:04and it's this huge pelican.
1:49:06>> Oh wow.
1:49:06>> Comes right up and stops for about a
1:49:09full minute and is sitting there and
1:49:10we're just looking at each other. This
1:49:13pelican and then the pelican kind of
1:49:15turns around and swims off
1:49:18>> and uh I thought
1:49:20>> it knew. You know
1:49:21>> what?
1:49:21>> It knew. It knew.
1:49:23>> I No, it really did seem like it. It
1:49:25seemed like well first it was the
1:49:26buffalo and then now this pelican is
1:49:28like
1:49:29>> you know checking on me. you you came
1:49:30you came out to this, you know, later I
1:49:33discovered, you know, a lot of
1:49:34significance to the symbolism of the
1:49:36pelican
1:49:37>> and uh then I walked back up and I'm
1:49:39walking up the gravel road. We were the
1:49:40only ones there in the in the uh
1:49:43>> in the campground at the time.
1:49:45>> Here comes a ranger truck and he stops
1:49:48and he's I didn't expect to see anybody
1:49:50here and
1:49:50>> said, "Well, we weathered it out and you
1:49:52know, we could see the old the panel
1:49:54truck there and stuff and I asked him
1:49:56about he said, "So, this is the
1:49:57strongest storm we've had in 10 years."
1:49:59Wow.
1:50:00>> And I thought, and I've always looked
1:50:02back on that and I thought, strongest
1:50:04storm in 10 years. And there we were. I
1:50:08was tripping, peeking in the midst of
1:50:11that.
1:50:11>> Yeah. The craziest things happen when
1:50:13you're on psychedelics, too. You just
1:50:14like synchronistically attract
1:50:16[clears throat]
1:50:17intense experiences or crazy
1:50:18experiences. This was an int and I put
1:50:21this ranked this right of probably the
1:50:24two or three peak experiences of my life
1:50:27was that
1:50:28>> six seven hours
1:50:30>> looking out there. Um and I thought you
1:50:33know I want to repeat that experience.
1:50:35Of course it never happened. Um
1:50:37>> yeah we can we can repeat it.
1:50:39>> Oh okay.
1:50:41>> How do you feel man? You
1:50:42>> I'm feeling good.
1:50:43>> Yeah.
1:50:43>> Yeah I'm feeling good.
1:50:44>> A little flowy. What what do you what
1:50:46would you So instead of it coming from
1:50:49me, which I'm happy to extrapolate, but
1:50:51what would you So this I think this is
1:50:53the largest dose you've ever taken cuz
1:50:55you've only taken one capsule in the
1:50:57past, correct?
1:50:58>> At one time.
1:50:59>> Yeah. At one time. So and like So one
1:51:01capsule. So one capsule is a half gram.
1:51:04I would say generally a half gram to a
1:51:06gram or two is like a micro dose. You
1:51:08probably took right about two grams. So
1:51:10you're like right on the edge of like a
1:51:12micro dose to a low dose, which is where
1:51:15you should actually start to feel it a
1:51:17little bit more. Not that you don't
1:51:18necessarily feel a micro dose, but yeah.
1:51:20How do you feel?
1:51:21>> Feel good.
1:51:22>> Yeah.
1:51:22>> Yeah. No, I'm feeling relaxed, mellow,
1:51:26you know, kind of like in tune with
1:51:29>> Yeah.
1:51:29>> with things. And I, you know, I kind of
1:51:32deliberately held off of that. Well,
1:51:34Christian's coming here, you know, next
1:51:36week. I think I'll wait till he gets
1:51:37here and,
1:51:38>> you know, be in his presence when I
1:51:41>> I tend to amplify for people, too.
1:51:43>> Yeah.
1:51:44>> So, yeah, it's great. I I'm looking
1:51:46forward to um
1:51:48>> learning more, experiencing and and
1:51:50learning more. And I I should mention
1:51:52you've got an awesome website.
1:51:54>> Yeah.
1:51:55>> Very informative.
1:51:56>> Yeah. Thank you.
1:51:56>> And and the videos you're Gabriel
1:51:59>> Gabriel is amazing.
1:52:00>> He is amazing. Yeah. So, I'd like to
1:52:02encourage people to go check out your
1:52:04website. And you know there was a lot of
1:52:06sort of technical information and and
1:52:08and so [clears throat] on.
1:52:09>> They'll you'll find all the uh you know
1:52:12the definitions and the meanings so
1:52:13you'll be able to work your way through
1:52:15it. Yeah.
1:52:15>> But it's and it's a very well done
1:52:17informative website.
1:52:18>> Thank you. Yeah. It's it's so important
1:52:20because there's such a you know I
1:52:22explained like preparation and dosing
1:52:24and all these things like it's a bridge
1:52:26for people to cross to be able to
1:52:28actually use it responsibly and
1:52:30properly.
1:52:30>> Use it responsibly. That was the thing.
1:52:33And this is this is the thing that got
1:52:35sabotaged with the drug war.
1:52:37>> Sure.
1:52:37>> Is it pushed it out onto the streets?
1:52:39>> Sure. Yeah.
1:52:40>> You know, and and Yeah. There were sure
1:52:42there were bad trips because you had
1:52:45>> you had stuff that was not pure. You
1:52:48know, people overdosing the first time
1:52:50because nobody said, "Look, start out
1:52:51with about a 100 or 200 micrograms, not
1:52:54a thousand micrograms, you know."
1:52:56>> Um
1:52:58>> but yeah, hopefully now we can make up
1:53:00for lost time.
1:53:01>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think
1:53:03so. I think we're entering into that era
1:53:05for sure. Yeah. Good. And we'll we'll do
1:53:06whatever we can to be a part of that.
1:53:08And and yeah, I mean the website any
1:53:10information that anybody could ever want
1:53:12to start is is on the website and then
1:53:14the further information tends to get
1:53:16divulged in sitdowns like this and long
1:53:18form discussions, you know,
1:53:20>> long. Yes. So, we'll have a link for
1:53:22people to go to the website and I think
1:53:25that, you know, we should plan a a
1:53:26followup at some point.
1:53:28>> Please, you know, and if you come back,
1:53:31you know, we
1:53:32I don't know if we mentioned this, but
1:53:33yeah, we're both from Minnesota and we
1:53:35both grew up in canoes and I have three
1:53:38three canoe. Actually, my brother has
1:53:40them up at his house next door and one
1:53:42of them is a is a a whitewater canoe. Um
1:53:45not flat water, but but um
1:53:48>> yeah, I'll just mention, you know, I did
1:53:51so much canoeing as a kid growing up and
1:53:53then I competed in a few canoe racing
1:53:55marathons in my early 20s. But I when I
1:54:00was studying meditation and and and yoga
1:54:03and breathing exercises, what I would do
1:54:06is I we we moved up to uh north of
1:54:09Brainard, uh we bought 8 acres of land
1:54:12on on a lake up there and I would go out
1:54:15in the the canoe and I would do my
1:54:17breathing exercises coordinated with my
1:54:20paddling.
1:54:20>> Yeah, for sure.
1:54:21>> And and uh
1:54:23>> that was really really really
1:54:26nice. Um, and I would be doing my
1:54:28mantrum and my breathing while I'm
1:54:30paddling.
1:54:31>> Yeah. Yoga on the water.
1:54:33>> Yoga in the water. That's right. And I
1:54:34was thinking of a Chinese Oh, what was
1:54:36it saying about wind on the water out of
1:54:38the taq ching? That's what it was like
1:54:41to me.
1:54:41>> Sure.
1:54:42>> And then of course that was flat water.
1:54:43And then when you're paddling on a on a
1:54:46river, now you're really the the you
1:54:49have to become one with the current.
1:54:51>> Yep.
1:54:51>> Yep. and the wind and you know it's it
1:54:54is very meditative and I haven't been
1:54:56canoeing in probably 12 to 15 years.
1:55:00>> Oh, we're gonna go.
1:55:01>> We're going to go. We're going to go.
1:55:02We're going to do this. We maybe we'll
1:55:05even bring Trent.
1:55:06>> Me? I don't know, man. I don't know.
1:55:09[laughter]
1:55:11>> You ever been in a canoe, Trent?
1:55:14>> Oh, yeah. Oh, you have high water
1:55:15rafting. I've been in canoes.
1:55:17>> Okay.
1:55:17>> All that stuff. Yeah. But see what you
1:55:19probably haven't done is, you know,
1:55:20there is a whole method for for
1:55:22canoeing,
1:55:24>> especially when you have Oh, yeah. Yeah.
1:55:25You don't just like p randomly do this.
1:55:27>> I see. Okay.
1:55:28>> It's not just Yeah, there's more to it.
1:55:31>> Are you going to tell me at some point?
1:55:33>> Yeah. I'm going to train. And I'm
1:55:34thinking when we get this school
1:55:37hopefully I mean not hopefully we got it
1:55:39got to have water nearby.
1:55:41>> Yeah.
1:55:41>> Because um Yeah. I mean to me the whole
1:55:45experience, you know, is is is so is so
1:55:48meditative and and you know when you're
1:55:51doing when you got two paddlers, you got
1:55:54a guy person, I'll say a person in the
1:55:56in the in the bow in the front of the
1:55:58canoe, one in the stern,
1:56:02you each have a different role to play.
1:56:04You know, you each have a different role
1:56:05to play and and you learn how, of
1:56:08course, when you're particularly moving
1:56:09water, the one thing you're trying to
1:56:11avoid is having the keel of the canoe.
1:56:14You want to keep it parallel to the
1:56:16current. You don't want this to happen
1:56:18because when this happens, then this
1:56:20happens and then you're in the water.
1:56:23>> Yeah,
1:56:23>> that's fun, too.
1:56:24>> Yeah.
1:56:25>> Which, you know, can be fun under some
1:56:28circumstances, but
1:56:29>> anything anything come to mind that you
1:56:31feel like you weren't able to cover
1:56:32there? I mean, I think, you know, I
1:56:34think it's it makes sense for us to do a
1:56:36second one because we haven't even the
1:56:38the discussion that we could get into,
1:56:40would it' be another hour or two to talk
1:56:42about like really what's going on in
1:56:45consciousness when somebody starts
1:56:46utilizing this mushroom, but that's
1:56:48another that's a long discussion and it
1:56:50makes sense. If we're going to do
1:56:50another one of these, I think it
1:56:52actually makes sense to do it on the
1:56:53second one. We'll get we'll get more
1:56:55traction. We'll all get more traction if
1:56:56we do it that way. So, I I think that's
1:56:58smart and makes sense, but yeah. Well,
1:57:01you know, I I I really hope you come
1:57:03back soon and we'll we'll do some of
1:57:06this stuff.
1:57:07>> I'm always willing to uh you know, have
1:57:10a remote discussion.
1:57:11>> Sure. Yeah. I think that I'd like to
1:57:13come in person. That'd be cool. I
1:57:14>> I much you know, yeah, in person is
1:57:16preferable, but
1:57:17>> if it if it gets complicated for you to
1:57:19get back or whatever, maybe it isn't,
1:57:21but yeah, I'm always
1:57:23>> if you're in LA too in October, like we
1:57:25could set up there at my place and and
1:57:27that's that's a possibility, too. Yeah,
1:57:29it's a possibility. So,
1:57:31>> okay.
1:57:31>> Yeah, whatever works. We'll stay in
1:57:33touch. And I'm I'm so grateful for both
1:57:36of you guys. Seriously, thank you. Yeah,
1:57:38I appreciate this. And and the mushroom
1:57:40is grateful, too. And you know, the
1:57:41mushroom works through me. So, we're
1:57:43symbiotically grateful for
1:57:45>> Okay.
1:57:45>> for the solar deal. So,
1:57:46>> well, I'm going to be in touch because
1:57:48as I get into experimenting, I'm sure
1:57:50I'm going to have questions and things I
1:57:51want to,
1:57:53>> you know, clarification on. And when I
1:57:55decide to up the ante a little bit,
1:57:57>> I would say so, so we talked about the
1:58:00decarboxilation.
1:58:01These are non- decarb. They're just
1:58:03dried. This goes through a decarb
1:58:05process. So it's similar to if you make
1:58:06the tea. So there's more muskimal and
1:58:08less ibotenic acid in this one. So it
1:58:11might have a little bit of a different
1:58:12experience. So it might might be fun to
1:58:14try one or two of these first and hit a
1:58:16similar dose to what you've done in the
1:58:18past. And then I would say give like
1:58:21five or six of either of these a shot
1:58:23and do it in the evening. And that's
1:58:24it's not you more than likely you could
1:58:27probably drive, you know, you're not
1:58:28going to be like super intoxicated or
1:58:30anything, but you'll get a little bit
1:58:32more of what what I'm speaking to here.
1:58:35And that'll be that'll be probably
1:58:36important for the next part of the
1:58:38conversation. Okay? cuz you start to
1:58:41>> you start you're able to see things kind
1:58:43of like how you saw you see the mask on
1:58:45people you know like you're able to see
1:58:47things but in a super unique way that's
1:58:49completely unto Ammonita and it's almost
1:58:52like I I guess that the it's it's a
1:58:54different form of nosis right of just
1:58:56like knowledge without having to
1:58:58experiential knowledge and I I'm I'm
1:59:00really curious you have a beautiful mind
1:59:02and I'm curious how your mind you know
1:59:04interprets that nosis specifically
1:59:06soward we can prelude the next, you
1:59:09know, talk with some of that and yeah,
1:59:11let me know how it goes and we'll, you
1:59:13know, we'll walk you through everything
1:59:14and yeah,
1:59:16>> and then at some point, maybe next time
1:59:17I'm out here, we brew up this whole bag
1:59:20and split it in a cup of tea and and
1:59:22take it a little bit further, but we'll
1:59:23see. You know,
1:59:24>> the psychi
1:59:25car. [laughter]
1:59:27>> Well, we could dose ourselves with this
1:59:28and head out and
1:59:30>> in the canoe.
1:59:31>> Yep. For sure. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So, I
1:59:34mean, well, let's let's start with Blue
1:59:35Lotus since we didn't get to really
1:59:36cover that much. So it's it's we offer
1:59:39so there's there's the flowers which is
1:59:41what the Egyptians would use. They would
1:59:42actually mix them into wine. So there's
1:59:44two there's two main compounds in lotus.
1:59:46One's water soluble, the other is
1:59:48ethanol soluble. So when you make a tea
1:59:50out of it, you're only getting the water
1:59:51soluble compound. The ethanol stays in
1:59:53the flour, but when you brew it into
1:59:55wine, you get an extract of of both of
1:59:57them. Um and we have an extract that's a
2:00:01water ethanol extract and then we infuse
2:00:03that extract into gummies. So each gummy
2:00:06is about the equivalent of three grams
2:00:08of flour or one or two of the full
2:00:10flower buds. So you can get much more
2:00:13you can consume much more and have both
2:00:15of the alkoids in and actually get more
2:00:17of an experience otherwise it takes you
2:00:18kind of need to eat like in the Odyssey
2:00:20you know they're eating lotus flowers
2:00:21like you got to eat quite a bit of them
2:00:23to actually get more of the effects. Do
2:00:25you remember how many you took of those
2:00:27for the lotus gummies at a time?
2:00:30>> Uh the blue two.
2:00:31>> Two. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And that's that's
2:00:32a that's a great starting dose for a lot
2:00:34of people. My sweet spot's like three or
2:00:36four or five. And it's it has this like
2:00:39this impathogenic heartopening floaty
2:00:42dreamy feel to it. It's relatively
2:00:44subtle, but it's it's it's very nice.
2:00:46And it seems to have like a a plateau.
2:00:49So like 10 gummies isn't twice as strong
2:00:51as five gummies. You know, it kind of it
2:00:53kind of teeters out at some point. Um
2:00:55but yeah, it's it's one of one of the
2:00:56cool things that we learned early on was
2:00:59that we had we had a customer come to us
2:01:01that said that they started micro doing
2:01:03the gummies. So they would take one
2:01:04gummy three times a day for weeks and
2:01:07they said by the end of like two or
2:01:09three weeks their heart chakra opened up
2:01:11and it was as if like yeah they had a
2:01:12full-blown like kundalini heart opening
2:01:14activation. So we tested this out uh
2:01:17with a lot of customers and pretty
2:01:20reliably that was an extreme example but
2:01:22pretty reliably people state that
2:01:24they're more loving and more
2:01:25compassionate at the end of their micro
2:01:27dosing regimen which is cool. We need
2:01:29more love.
2:01:29>> We need more of that. Oh my god do we
2:01:32need more of that.
2:01:32>> Yep. Absolutely. So, Lotus is Lotus is
2:01:35amazing. I, you know, the flowers can be
2:01:37great for tea and some people smoke
2:01:38them, but the gummies are are really
2:01:39fire. Nobody else in the in the world is
2:01:41doing that like we are. Um, so yeah,
2:01:44those are those are really great. The
2:01:45kana, as I mentioned, um, it it's a
2:01:48potent mood lift. It increases serotonin
2:01:50in the body and brain. Um, the gummies
2:01:52are a great place to start for that.
2:01:54Generally, one gummy is a good dose and
2:01:56I definitely recommend you try that at
2:01:58some point and try it during the day
2:02:00because it can be it can not necessarily
2:02:02stimulating but it might keep you up a
2:02:03little bit but just one gummy is enough.
2:02:06Some people will go to two gummies but
2:02:08pretty reliably three gummies is over
2:02:10overdoing it for most people.
2:02:12keep it at one or two. And overdoing it
2:02:14is like it just uh
2:02:16>> you can get a little rushy. I guess it
2:02:19feels just get a little uncomfortable,
2:02:21you know. Um it's not like it's going to
2:02:22be like a horrific experience or
2:02:24anything, but it can just get
2:02:25uncomfortable. And then so for Amanita,
2:02:27you know, what we've been discussing
2:02:28basically this whole time, the dosing
2:02:31table is, you know, it's all over the
2:02:32website. So if anybody's interested,
2:02:34they can go on the website and and and
2:02:36find all the info that they'll need. But
2:02:38the for now the dosing table is
2:02:40essentially 0.5 grams. So half a gram
2:02:42which is one capsule to roughly two
2:02:45grams is a micro dose. And then we just
2:02:47took around two grams each. So 2 to 5 g
2:02:49is where you get into like the low dose
2:02:51territory. That's when you start feeling
2:02:52it a little bit more. You're a little
2:02:54bit more relaxed. You're, you know, your
2:02:56mood gets lifted a little bit more in a
2:02:58flow state. You kind of can start
2:03:00pulling threads that you maybe wouldn't
2:03:01be pulling otherwise.
2:03:03>> And 5 to 10 g. And once once one gets to
2:03:06this level, it's generally good to not
2:03:08take capsules or just eat the the raw
2:03:11mushroom cap because that can cause
2:03:12stomach upset. So the gummies or brewing
2:03:15a tea and that is what we call medium
2:03:18dose. That's what we're going to
2:03:19experiment with later down the road
2:03:21because that's you really start to get
2:03:23into the the ammonita dream world, we'll
2:03:25say, and you're really able to see
2:03:27things like in a different perspective.
2:03:29I, you know, I I come from the world of
2:03:32like of healing and self-optimization,
2:03:36right? and like like you know the
2:03:37everybody that I'm involved with in in
2:03:39Los Angeles is like in in this realm and
2:03:43I'm able to get if I have something that
2:03:45I'm like I don't like how I'm like doing
2:03:47this around my partner you know like
2:03:49acting in this certain way reacting in
2:03:50this certain way I could use psilocybin
2:03:53I could use you know measculine or any
2:03:55other psychedelic ammonita will allow me
2:03:58to get the most effective quickest most
2:04:01efficient work done on on altering my
2:04:03personality structure and becoming the
2:04:05individual that I want to be and that
2:04:07happens, you know, very reliably for me
2:04:09if I'm actually putting the work in at
2:04:10that like 5 to 10 g range. After 10
2:04:14grams, it gets a little bit more uh uh
2:04:17strange, we'll say. And it's still a
2:04:19beautiful experience, but this is where
2:04:21most people are not even going to
2:04:23consider venturing into. And it gets a
2:04:25little bit more uh intense. Um but it's
2:04:29not it's still relatively manageable. 15
2:04:32grams plus is generally considered the
2:04:34heroic dose territory. And that's it's
2:04:36it's it's a whole different experience
2:04:38that's unlike anything else and it's
2:04:40very hard to put into words. But most
2:04:43anybody should have at least for their
2:04:45first couple times somebody there with
2:04:46them if they're doing that because it
2:04:48can be confusing. Um, and people can,
2:04:51you know, you can get stuck in time
2:04:53loops and there's there's yeah, very
2:04:55interesting like physical alterations of
2:04:59reality that are happening in a very
2:05:00unique way onto the to the mushroom. But
2:05:03yeah, so people should be careful and
2:05:05most most everybody should not even
2:05:07venture there. But that's that's the
2:05:08typical dosing table. Most most
2:05:10everybody really enjoys micro dose to
2:05:13medium dose, maybe up to seven, eight,
2:05:15nine grams. And then after that, it's
2:05:17just a select few that should really be
2:05:19playing around with it. Yeah, that's the
2:05:20general rundown. The website's chocked
2:05:23full of, you know, any information. And
2:05:24then you got me, so just hit me up, you
2:05:26know, want to talk about anything.
2:05:27>> Got the man himself when I have
2:05:29questions.
2:05:30>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
2:05:31>> And Okay. I love it. Well, this has been
2:05:34great. Uh, I think that we've covered
2:05:38enough for the one
2:05:40episode. Uh, so Christian,
2:05:44>> hey, thank you, brother. Hey, I really
2:05:45appreciate you.
2:05:47>> Me, too. I appreciate you, man.
2:05:49>> All right.
2:05:49>> I'm excited to come back.
2:05:50>> Good.
2:05:52>> Excited to have you back.
2:05:53>> Yeah. Cool. Sweet. Thank you, man.

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