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Interview with Joe Perriello for "The Great Depression" — Transcript

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0:32foreign
0:41busiest
0:45in moving his towns you ever want to see
0:47remember the old west yeah
0:50when people what's that
0:57Aliquippa
0:59back as far as I can remember
1:02was a time to remind me always to the
1:04old west they went out to find Golden's
1:06time would explode
1:08people came down equip it to work in the
1:10steel mills and have their kids here
1:13and the time was always full of people
1:17from morning to night walk the streets
1:21we used to be up two three four o'clock
1:23in the morning walk up and down Franklin
1:25Avenue and we were just young kids 16 17
1:2818 years old
1:31our parents all worked
1:35there was nothing that we didn't have
1:37that we didn't need
1:39tell me about uh the shopping areas the
1:43stores the schools the shopping areas
1:47now
1:49the shopping areas
1:52in the schools the shopping areas were
1:55dominated by The Company Store I'm sorry
1:58let's play it again
2:01worry too much about them
2:06never said again
2:14okay we're set your Adele equipment
2:17reminds me of the old western towns when
2:19people used to go out west to find gold
2:22you know equipped with people used to
2:24pour in from all over the world
2:25immigrants from Italy serbians
2:28yugoslavians Irish people
2:31blacks from down south would come up
2:33working the steel mills and the town was
2:36one of the busiest towns in Western
2:37Pennsylvania
2:39in fact they call this little Las Vegas
2:40if you please gambling joints
2:44every other store was a gambling joint
2:46Barber Shop the right numbers
2:50The Company Store was the focal point
2:55that did most of the business that's why
2:58or business establishments mostly used
3:00to cry about it because they used to
3:02take the money out of their pay envelope
3:03you know
3:06and on paydays
3:08you could walk from the Y
3:12or rather you can walk from the Stone
3:13Arch down to the tunnel
3:16on top of automobiles and your feet will
3:19never touch the ground
3:21you believe that to get their pace
3:26and the women will be waiting for their
3:27husbands to come out because if they
3:28didn't catch them right there
3:30'd be in the joints blowing our money
3:34and that's true that gambled from uh
3:36Friday when we got paid in twice a month
3:38you know that gambled from Friday to
3:40Monday the bowl from Friday Monday
3:43everybody plays for money there was no
3:45fooling around Aliquippa it was a money
3:47town
3:48we could just go back over a little bit
3:49of that because
3:52go ahead and tell me that again
3:54was it was a was a money time everybody
3:56gambled on payday if the wives didn't
3:59catch their husbands coming out with a
4:00tunnel they were in trouble
4:02they didn't get their rent paid to get
4:03the gas paid that was the guys who got
4:06paid
4:07but you must know that there's a lot of
4:09people that worked in JNL that Drew what
4:12we call three X's
4:14they lived in Aliquippa they dealt in
4:16The Company Store they live in the
4:18company house
4:20they drank the company
4:22Woodlawn water company
4:25water
4:28they used
4:30the Woodlawn
4:31land companies rentals
4:34and they used a company store for food
4:36and clothing
4:37so they always Drew three X's I don't
4:38know how they paid their gas and
4:40electric they must have come out of the
4:41pay too
4:42but these some of these people worked
4:44for years and never drew a dollar
4:47until they passed a law that they had to
4:49leave one day's pay
4:51in their envelope
4:53but we had a happy time
4:55it was dominated in a way by the uh JNL
5:00police and the Aliquippa police you you
5:02didn't have much personal
5:04or rather uh what you would call a
5:07movement you couldn't do everything you
5:09wanted
5:11but as long as you follow their rules
5:13which was keep your mouth shut
5:16don't talk against gnl
5:19don't join any unions
5:21you're in good shape
5:24good but a lot of us
5:26didn't follow that philosophy okay but
5:29we'll get to that we'll get to that tell
5:32me about
5:34the shopping areas and the shopping
5:37areas and the ethnic areas and yes first
5:42let's go all right we'll go into the
5:44shopping areas the shopping areas I told
5:47you was predominantly
5:48uh uh not at that time beer garden
5:51because the beer garden didn't come in
5:52until 33-34
5:54I'm talking about those early days when
5:58we had mostly barber shops and pool
6:00rooms
6:01where they played cards and shot crap
6:03and all that sort of thing and wrote
6:04numbers and then when the beer gardens
6:07came in when the
6:10they passed the liquor law ninth one was
6:11at 34 35 33 somewhere around there we
6:14opened up beer gardens there was a
6:16couple of clothing stores the grocery
6:18stores did a few did a little bit of
6:20business but the company store was the
6:22focal point
6:23the schools
6:26we had all year round school then
6:29and uh
6:30we had different plans in our equipment
6:33when a person came off the train he was
6:36met by a JNL Personnel or cop or
6:38somebody and asked him
6:39what were you doing there
6:43you want a job you have any folks live
6:45in town yep
6:47who were they
6:48if it didn't ring the right Vote or the
6:50right note
6:52they totally get back on the train and
6:54get out they didn't want you there so
6:56they'd have to go down to Monaca or
6:57Beaver Falls get off there and bum in
6:59see that's the only way to come in then
7:01so we had the people of the uh Serbian
7:06and Italian
7:07ancestry lived in uh the upper end of
7:10Hopewell Avenue lockstown they called it
7:13and then we had all of Hopewell Avenue
7:14mostly Italians lived on Hopewell Avenue
7:16and down Sheffield Avenue
7:19Franklin Avenue was uh
7:22mixed
7:24Highland Avenue was a few Greeks
7:27plan six was all Angelo Saxon or cake
7:30eaters we call them that's where the
7:31most some of the stove pigeons in Boston
7:33lived higher up the hill you went the
7:34better job you had you know
7:37plant 12 was also
7:39predominantly Angelo Saxon that's uh
7:42Germans and Irish and uh
7:45English and scratch
7:49and uh
7:52Hollywood was extension of
7:54plant 12. it was always it was the same
7:57predominantly Angela Saxon
8:01those areas
8:03no black person ever walked after dark
8:06in fact you had a hell of a time getting
8:08around here during the day
8:09they arrested you
8:11take you down a police station
8:13and if you didn't answer the right
8:15question they might hit you a few times
8:16on the head if you worked in JNL
8:18they arrested for loitering and they
8:20take ten dollars out of your pay it was
8:22very simple very simple living if I was
8:24up there and walked after dark
8:27they want to know what you're doing up
8:28there you know
8:29and they tell you to leave
8:32yep I need for you to explain to me
8:35these plans you know and if you tell me
8:38that JNL laid the city out and they was
8:41playing whatever whatever the plans
8:43as far as I can remember
8:46Westdale equipment was a town by itself
8:52when I moved to Highland Avenue the
8:54first home you see in a movie was to
8:56hold my dad bought Highland Avenue was
8:58one of the first places and they
9:02lockstown was plan one that was you
9:05remember when I showed you the upper end
9:06of uh
9:07Jay now going towards from West
9:09Aliquippa down that was logstown all the
9:12way down to Hopewell Avenue down to the
9:13Y let's stop let's stop okay
9:22now when when you talk about
9:25when any of us from Aliquippa mentioned
9:27certain plans you must understand
9:31that aliquipp was divided up
9:33by the JNL Woodlawn Land Company when
9:36they build homes at a certain period of
9:39time for certain kind of people
9:42now on Hopewell Avenue that was plan one
9:45I believe
9:46and that's where all the Italians and
9:48the serbs
9:49were sent
9:51all the way up to logstown
9:53all the Italians the serves were there
9:55the Negroes came later
9:57but that's where we went and and uh then
10:00Franklin Avenue where all the business
10:02section was that was plan two I believe
10:06and that was business people some there
10:08was a couple Italian grocery stores some
10:10Jewish clothing stores the Giant Eagle
10:14and I believe Krogers was down there
10:17and of course the company store always
10:19The Company Store
10:21and a brook shoe store
10:24isley's
10:26three theaters we had uh the Strand and
10:30the temple in the state
10:32and there was one other I just can't
10:33remember what the heck the name of it
10:34was but anyway
10:36then further up in that
10:39was the further into Franklin Avenue was
10:41the better homes that these Angelo
10:44Saxons and that no no no no no ethnic
10:46group lived there in the back of uh uh
10:49uh Franklin Avenue was plan eight
10:51that's where more Angelos actually they
10:54were better houses the houses had
10:56Sellers and friends to see us on
10:57Hopewell Avenue we didn't have any
10:59sellers
11:00and our furnaces no we didn't have no
11:02furniture we had a coal stove in the
11:04kitchen
11:05the kitchen was the largest room in the
11:07house and back of the kitchen you had a
11:09wall and another wall and we had our
11:10bathroom and our in Charlotte we didn't
11:12have no furnaces
11:14the second floor here was one room where
11:16your mother and dad then the third floor
11:18was two bedrooms where all the people
11:19slept in the winter time
11:22you knocked the icicles off to win the
11:24seals
11:25it was so cold all he had was that
11:28little cold stove downstairs and you run
11:30like hell for the
11:32stove your mother poor mother stayed up
11:34all night to keep the fire going and
11:36during the winter you tore down three
11:38flights of steps to get by the stove you
11:40know I should have the coffee ready for
11:41us
11:42and our meal always consisted during the
11:44day in the morning was day old bread and
11:47coffee
11:53and take it away all right now
11:57Aliquippa was divided into approximately
12:0012 Plans by the Woodlawn Land Company
12:03when they built homes for the workers
12:05and the residents of Aliquippa
12:09there's plan one two three four
12:14there was predominantly ethnic group
12:17Italians and serbs and blacks
12:20five six
12:22seven eight
12:259 and 10.
12:29any and 12
12:32were predominantly Angelo Saxton
12:35and they consisted of primarily the
12:38bosses or the upper echelon of the
12:40people in JNL
12:424 and 11.
12:45where Lee leaven was oh about 70 80
12:48percent of the Italian descent the rest
12:51were Slavic or serbians and four was
12:54predominantly black
12:57and uh
12:58I think that about covered
13:01most of the areas
13:04around Aliquippa now we did have uh
13:07McDonald Heights or I don't know what
13:09plan that was but it was a hill upper
13:12back of uh
13:13plan seven
13:16which was predominantly Italian and
13:19Serbian they even had cows in the sheds
13:21[ __ ] to tell you the truth and some
13:23great ball players came out of there
13:25for what
13:27played shortstop for the Athletics
13:30a good ball player
13:32yeah we had some good boys Joe Biggs
13:34came from Plan Three
13:37pitch for the Yankees Cincinnati Reds
13:39okay how'd that I want you to tell me
13:42about movement from plan to plan you
13:45know the the movement from plan to plan
13:49was dangerous to tell you the truth
13:52especially if if you were black and you
13:56were among the areas of uh
13:59plan six plan 12.
14:06and they asked you what you were doing
14:07up there and you didn't have any answer
14:08they take you down to jail
14:11and if you were from me I'll quit and
14:13worked in JNL
14:15let's find you
14:16and you had nothing to do but you had to
14:18sign a res they call it a receipt and
14:20you asked a receipt they said you're the
14:22receipt when you walk out of this place
14:23your receipt they took the money out of
14:25your pay
14:28and we had a swimming pool
14:31under the tunnel
14:33back in the early days of 1920 somewhere
14:36around there and we lived in Hopewell
14:37land we used to walk down there and swim
14:40it was free
14:42but then J L all of a sudden about 1928
14:44or 29 they decided that they won a uh to
14:47use it for parking lot
14:49so turn around they put the swimming
14:52pool to the present site up in plan 12
14:54between plant 12 and Hollywood
14:59and we had a walk up there and it was
15:01the same thing there it was uh very
15:03uncomfortable
15:05you walked around these Angelo Saxons
15:11the fathers and mothers didn't allow you
15:13to talk to their girls for you know if
15:15you were a boy talk to her or if you
15:16were a boy you'd talk to a girl you
15:18couldn't have nothing to do if you want
15:21to date one of these Angelo Saxons you
15:23came to the door
15:25and even if you were a football player
15:27or a star and they didn't give a damn
15:28and you knocked at the door and you
15:30asked for the girl and he says who the
15:32hell are you you know well get out of
15:34here you goddamn Tingo
15:36and don't you come back here and that's
15:38the way it was
15:40good now
15:43um
15:46tell me about after high school and you
15:49began working at JNL what your job was
15:52and how you got your job are we going to
15:54the high school first
15:56no I mean
15:58the high school first
16:01I have to get out of high school before
16:02I go to work okay the high school had
16:05all year round school
16:08it would have worked
16:10but the whole trouble was the way they
16:12dished out the vacations
16:14again
16:15that ethnic group
16:18D'Angelo Saxons and all their sons would
16:20take the summer vacations and they gave
16:22us the guy
16:23winter vacations you know
16:25and we don't want to stay home during
16:27the winter we had to go to school to
16:28keep warm for Christ's sake
16:29it was cold in our houses you know like
16:31I told you it was just a stove and all
16:33that and they uh
16:36did this for from 1930 I think to about
16:391936 we had all year round school and
16:43like I say it was a good idea
16:46but it was badly handled
16:50so I finished school with uh 22 people
16:53in January of uh 33 30 32 30 32 yeah 32.
17:01we graduated four times a year
17:05and uh
17:08that's where it was you had a vacation
17:10during the winter time what's the 16 17
17:12year old kid going to do a little open a
17:13pool room where could you go and keep
17:15warm
17:18and and and an old friend of ours broke
17:21that up he wanted to take his son out he
17:23was Italian descent
17:24he wanted to take his son out and he
17:26wanted to go visit Italy and he wanted
17:28to go during the summer
17:30so he went up and he asked them
17:34this is interesting but I can't use it
17:37for the program oh you can't use for a
17:39program okay what I need for you to do
17:40is to jump ahead out of high school now
17:42we're out of high school we're now
17:44looking for a job when you went to work
17:45okay
17:48you don't even want to know about us
17:49building the golf course
17:51that's all right can you look up is he
17:55okay looking at looking down like that's
17:56better if you look at Dante but that's
17:58all right I'm more relaxed whenever I I
18:01think better okay
18:03and uh so we left high school and uh
18:07from 32 to 33 there was nothing
18:11we did all kind of odd jobs carry Cole
18:14for a couple of
18:1525 30 cents a ton
18:18in the summertime hold ice cut grass
18:20shoveled snow did whatever we could to
18:22make a buck
18:24and then all of a sudden in 33 they said
18:27they're going to start hiring Roosevelt
18:30was starting
18:32different programs
18:34and the NRA came in the National
18:36Recovery Act
18:38and they were going to cut everything
18:39down eight hours so it's going to make
18:41more work for everybody
18:43so we went down to an employment office
18:46they opened eight o'clock we'd be there
18:48about seven seven thirty three four
18:50hundred of us
18:51and we get down every morning
18:54and set there
18:56sometimes the guy come out and say three
18:59o'clock four o'clock in the afternoon
19:00say father's nothing for today going
19:02home so we'd go home
19:04come back next day
19:07and the same thing then every once in a
19:09while they had a room or maybe 12 by 20.
19:14and then it was attached to the
19:15employment office
19:17the room had a a bathroom a toilet
19:21a cooler benches and then they had a
19:25door where he went through the
19:26employment office and the door at the
19:28other end on the right hand side where
19:30the stenographers
19:32and your people took care of all the
19:35paperwork on the left-hand side was the
19:38examining room
19:40and your hiring agents they had offices
19:44and every once in a while they'd come
19:45out and say okay line up three four
19:47o'clock in the afternoon would line up
19:49that opened the doors run us right
19:50through the thing and go out the other
19:52end and go home
19:54then every once in a while
19:56he'd come out and he'd say any dagos
19:59[ __ ] or serbs want greasers or wipers
20:01jobs come on in
20:03so three four five guys that did kind of
20:06work you know they you'd get sick
20:08because you watched the expression on
20:10your face they were ashamed what are you
20:11gonna do so they need the job they'd
20:13walk in get hurt
20:14and then sometimes
20:16that bring maybe 25 or 30 of us in this
20:19room
20:19lock the doors
20:22and would sit in there
20:24for no reason till four o'clock
20:27then it opened the other door they say
20:29it's come on
20:30would line up and go out the other door
20:32and go home
20:33for no reason sit in that place for
20:34eight hours
20:36so finally start hiring
20:41where you from
20:43yeah
20:45where are you from
20:47where you from
20:49West Virginia
20:51how are you where are you from
20:54Aliquippa
20:56Charlotte West Virginia
20:59so I come home and I told my brother I
21:01said Nick
21:02West Virginia gets hard on
21:04I said I was born in West Virginia he
21:06said that's right
21:08good honor tell him so the next day
21:10to wear your West Virginia in the room
21:15they hired me
21:18bring out the papers age education where
21:21was your dad born where's your mother
21:23born Italy
21:25nationality Italian I said hold it
21:28I'm not Italian I'm an American I was
21:30born in West Virginia
21:32West Virginia in America yeah well I'm
21:35American oh no no we go by your ancestry
21:37you're Italian
21:40so they hired me
21:43then we found out the reason they were
21:44tearing down opener see so they needed
21:46about three 400 men when he turned on 10
21:48herpeners
21:49and uh
21:51an open Earth is where they make steel
21:54they combine the blast furnace deal with
21:58scrap iron and they make a certain type
22:00of Steel seed well when they re redo the
22:03Open Hearth they have to tear the
22:05insides out and that's what they have
22:08the Checkers in there and they've got a
22:09Candy Kitchen in the top they they knock
22:11all these refractory bricks down you
22:14know they go all the way down to the
22:15Candy Kitchen then down there you have
22:16to clean it out
22:18now
22:20they don't wait for this to get cool
22:23they shut it down at midnight eight
22:24o'clock you go in there
22:26wooden shoes head with a sack wet sack
22:30over your head and gloves
22:33you run in you grab a brick and run out
22:35throw it away and you're in a line you
22:37know 15 or 20 of you then the next guy
22:39goes in grabs a brick around you can't
22:40stay in there it's too hot in the
22:42meantime up above they're knocking the
22:44brakes down you know they're coming down
22:45on your head
22:46then when you get them all cleaned out
22:48then you have the residue you got all
22:50the small but you got them in with a
22:51shovel so you run in there with a shovel
22:53you throw a shovel full of wheelbarrow
22:55then you run back out the other guy he
22:56runs into it then the other guy he grabs
22:58the wheelbarrow runs out with it we'll
22:59have to get everything all cleaned up
23:01now they got to put the bricks back in
23:03see
23:05good
23:07okay we're ready to go hang on
23:11and uh we're all set
23:15you're gonna tell me about how you
23:16finished this job now wait a minute now
23:19okay now
23:21say they play jokes on us in a
23:24some refractory bricks were silicone and
23:27and they were ordinary sized bricks but
23:29they weighed about 30 40 pound a piece
23:31and these old timers would put 10 or 15
23:33I'm in a wheelbarrow and they say Hey
23:34kid go ahead and you know pull that in
23:36so they could lay it well you damn near
23:38rupture yourself picking that stuff up
23:39you couldn't make it
23:41so we'd take five or six of them off
23:44we'll three or four of them
23:46well that about finishes that then
23:48it came to the point where the job was
23:50done
23:51and I didn't have anything more to do as
23:55far as the labor gang was concerned
23:56would go up every morning with a lunch
23:59and uh and uh there was no work so they
24:02sent us all the way down the Ambridge
24:04bridge where they were loading docks
24:06and that's about a mile mile and a half
24:08walk and would walk down there and no
24:11work would have to go back up to the
24:12labor Shandy then in the afternoon would
24:15do the same thing carry the same lunch
24:17you know then at night we ate the lunch
24:19what could we do there was no work so my
24:21daddy
24:22had a pretty good friend that was a boss
24:24so he worked there for years he was a
24:25good boy so he got me down to 10 mil
24:28and I got on the old Hotmail engine
24:31rooms I oiled
24:34and uh
24:35this is where I'll tell you how they
24:37make I I tell the people how they make
24:40steel
24:42template most brutal job ever put on
24:45this Earth
24:46these poor guys there was about eight or
24:48nine on a mill you know there was a
24:50a rougher a roller or a catcher a
24:53catcher helper a doubler a heater two
24:55heaters and a pear heater and a screw
24:57boy
24:58they all had to work together
25:00to make this damn tin to put your food
25:03in a can and to drive your automobiles
25:05or whatever it is it's made and they
25:07made it by
25:09getting a bar a certain size it had to
25:11be so thick so long so wide and that's
25:14how they knew how to make a tin for
25:17automobiles or make a tin for food or
25:20make it for Caps or whatever they had to
25:21make it for and these poor guys were up
25:24against the furnaces
25:26and they had to control the heat
25:29so that whenever they rolled it it came
25:31out the right size it didn't do it
25:33didn't slide off in any way and they had
25:36to double it four times they made eight
25:38sheets out of it
25:40they wore wooden shoes Woolen clothes
25:44Woolen heads
25:46and they were real slaves I mean in the
25:48winter time
25:50it wasn't too bad but in the summertime
25:52they stood against the wall with that
25:53awful heat and they had big fans blowing
25:55on them but that didn't do much good
25:58and then they had people on the other
26:00side that opened the tent cut the tin
26:03and then they sent us down to the girls
26:06no then they pickled it and then they
26:08worked where my dad worked in the tin
26:10house
26:12they put this
26:14put the tin into a tin solution then it
26:17runs through roads with palm oil
26:19and when he went into this tin house you
26:22talk about environmentalists that died
26:24they saw that place you couldn't see my
26:25father
26:27you had a sort of walk around find Joe
26:29you know his name too and he's there
26:32dipping the tin pulling it out putting
26:34it in a rose in the in the in the uh
26:38oil the palm oil and the brine would
26:40wash off to 10 like if they want 1 000
26:43on the side two thousand three thousand
26:44they know exactly how much to put on it
26:46then it
26:47send it over to cold rolls and Nicole
26:49Rose had ran us through and shine it up
26:52then they sent it to them to count it
26:55the bathrooms did I ever tell you about
26:57did I ever tell anybody about the
26:58bathroom you go to the bathroom
27:01they had this big 40 50 gallon tank
27:04sitting on a wall
27:0510 or 15 half cut water heaters welded
27:09together and a one inch pipe when you
27:12want to go to the bathroom you had to
27:13hang on that one inch pipe the water
27:15would come down
27:17from the
27:19well and it would come solution down
27:21through there now it wasn't bad in the
27:22summertime in the winter time you got a
27:24pretty good lick
27:25and you use the towel more you did paper
27:27but then I got out of there in 1937 but
27:30the most interesting part of that
27:33I was I went down sometime in August or
27:36September and then the uh primaries came
27:40not the primaries the uh
27:43general election okay but tell me what
27:46year this is this is this 1933. okay
27:501933. yeah if you tell me when the 1933
27:53election came then tell me the story The
27:55Boss come up to me for you to say that
27:57when the 1933 election yeah it was it
28:00was a general election
28:011933 and I was 19 years old so the boss
28:05come up to me says Joey says you got to
28:06go vote
28:07I said John I can't go vote I'm only 19
28:10years old I'm not registered he said
28:12don't worry about that he said to Carl
28:13come and you get in with them and go
28:16so I changed clothes get in well this is
28:18like 9 10 o'clock in the morning get in
28:20the car
28:22they take me down Franklin Avenue and
28:24toward the building I said I don't pull
28:25it here I said I vote a Blog style
28:27that's the other way don't worry about
28:28it
28:29they take me to the Precinct 3 voting
28:32booth I vote in Precinct one
28:34where I would if I'd have been eligible
28:35and it was the old uh junior high school
28:38so I go in and there it is my name's
28:41there I'm registered Republican and I
28:44voted Democrat
28:45and I left and we go around the beer
28:48gardens and the best part of it is I'm
28:4921 I vote but they ain't allowed to give
28:51me a beer because I'm only 19. see but
28:53the rest of the guys they were allowed
28:55to hang around but they were Erp men see
28:57they were allowed to hang around and
28:59bull and all that stuff until two three
29:01o'clock and then they go in the middle
29:02and they went home they got the whole
29:03day for nothing
29:05before we go on I need for you to tell
29:07me about
29:09how you got registered and tell me how
29:12the company and JL was working together
29:15well
29:17the JNL then it it happened three other
29:21times the primaries of of uh 34 the
29:24generals of 34 and the primaries of 35
29:28and the generals are 36 but then they
29:30found out
29:31that they were transporting this is only
29:33in Aliquippa now they didn't transport
29:35damn I don't know about an amateur or
29:37Beaver anyplace else but they were
29:38transporting to voters of Al equipment
29:40to the voting booths and people like me
29:42that weren't registered
29:44but it wasn't coming out right see if
29:46they were taking a thousand people out
29:48of the JNL
29:49to the Aliquippa voting booths and 400
29:52were voting Democrats something was
29:54wrong
29:55you see they were getting cheated in
29:57other words they were doing our work for
29:58us so they stopped it then they they
30:01were losing because we were getting
30:03stronger and stronger democratically we
30:06were getting stronger and stronger see
30:07the the ethnic groups that they divided
30:11the town up start working against them
30:13plan 11
30:15was a powerful Italian group and and and
30:18the group The Democratic group took over
30:21the MPI Club
30:23and now we had a base okay let's wait
30:25let's
30:27I'm getting confused
30:29um yeah because I want I want to try to
30:31walk through this Crown a lot in in some
30:33kind of chronological order
30:35now tell me the story that you told me
30:37before about how when someone would go
30:41and apply for a job at JNL the last
30:43thing they would do would be to call the
30:45County register and see how they were
30:46registered oh wait a minute
30:49now yeah well say you you were like me I
30:53go down there and they asked me uh how
30:56are you registered I'll tell them well
30:57I'm
30:58only 19. I'm not registered yet
31:01well if you uh were 21 how would you
31:03register
31:05naturally I'll say republican because
31:07you're going to don't get a job unless
31:09you're so the next guy behind me he
31:10might be 30 years old how are you
31:13registered well we all knew we had to be
31:14a Republican
31:15that's the way it was if you wanted to
31:19work if you wanted to eat if you want to
31:21have something you had to be a republic
31:22and then Aliquippa at that time
31:25you couldn't get on a Borough
31:27you couldn't get in Janelle
31:30you couldn't get on the school board you
31:32couldn't get a teacher's job
31:34you couldn't get a mailman's job you
31:38couldn't work for the county
31:39you couldn't work for the state
31:42if you weren't a Republican
31:45there is no way
31:46and that's the way it was
31:50so
31:52good
31:54now
31:56when you finally did get a job at JNL
32:00in the middle of depression
32:02how did you feel what did that mean to
32:04you and your family
32:05it meant that uh we had to pay a lot of
32:08debts
32:10you must understand that there was eight
32:13of us in the family
32:15my brother Nick was an invalid
32:19and uh during the course of time from
32:221929 when things got a little rough you
32:25must understand my dad worked maybe a
32:26day
32:28to it tomorrow a month the most they
32:30took 75 cents out of his pay
32:32prison shorts so the Sporto guy here he
32:36is supporting eight people from 29
32:39to actually 35 and 36 because even 37
32:44when I started work they laid me off for
32:4610 months so in that period of time
32:48there he was keeping eight eight of us
32:53and the only way they did it
32:56was with the grace of the Italian
32:57grocery stores and Italian
33:00shops or if you worked in The Company
33:03Store deal my dad never worked in a
33:05company store deal
33:08when we when we started to work we owed
33:10hundreds of dollars to the grocery store
33:13we owed all liquors for the clothes you
33:15know it was like a dollar a pay 50 we
33:17owed dentist bills it was like 50 cents
33:20a week and stuff like that that's how
33:22you live in those days
33:24you just you bought a live chicken and
33:26you killed it
33:27you you you you you you bought you went
33:30out to the forums and bought a pig of
33:33one family and they killed and they
33:34divided it up you know it was it was
33:36tough but those kids didn't care because
33:39we didn't know any better you see let me
33:41jump ahead now I want you to describe
33:43the working conditions in the mail and
33:46how certain racial and ethnic groups got
33:48certain jobs before you told me about
33:50how blacks and Greeks got the higher
33:53jobs and so forth can you retell that
33:55story
33:57the blacks
33:59they were one step lower than the
34:01Italians
34:04they couldn't get into seamless Duke
34:07because
34:10the
34:11superintendent seamless tube had to deal
34:13with JNL he said I don't want no [ __ ]
34:15working here and that's it and he never
34:17did as long as I remember there's no no
34:19blacks in the seamless tube and it seems
34:22too about 2 800 people
34:29and uh anytime
34:31again it
34:34the problem was
34:36being hired
34:39down a single
34:40steel mill in it ran a town
34:44was the fact that no matter what your
34:47ethnic background was or what your color
34:49was
34:50they controlled you
34:52now the blacks
34:54were very unfortunate they were one step
34:56hired I think than the Italians and the
34:59serbs and stuff but they were only
35:01allowed to work in certain departments
35:02they worked in a 14-inch Mill
35:05the byproducts which was dirty and
35:08brutal
35:09and wire Mill that that's most the one
35:12there were a few in the welded tube and
35:14a few in the 10 mil but predominantly
35:17to buy products the 14 inch Mill and
35:19then the wire Mill
35:21and that's strange it wasn't strange
35:24enough that's where the ethnic groups
35:26went too
35:28whoever was if you were an Angelo Saxon
35:30you went to the byproducts or you went
35:32to the 14 inch Mill you became a boss
35:36or if you were a store pigeon you know
35:38did I ever tell you the people in it
35:42that are out there must understand that
35:45channel
35:46had a spy system okay we'll get to that
35:49we'll get to that
35:51now
35:52you tell me about how who got the
35:53hardest jobs tell me what happened at
35:56JNL when the NRA came in what happened
36:00well tell me how that led to them it
36:04you have to say the NRA the National
36:07Recovery Act came in
36:10and what it did
36:12it
36:14knocked see we're working 10 hours a day
36:16for 30 cents an hour that was a labor
36:18rate
36:20when they come in they knocked it down
36:21to eight hours a day and they gave in a
36:2440 cents in her and he says anything
36:26over 40 hours you'll get time and a half
36:30now we worked under those conditions for
36:32three or four months and then the
36:33Supreme Court said that was illegal
36:37they were not allowed to compel a
36:39company to tell them how many hours to
36:42work or how much to pay their people
36:44but the company found that working eight
36:47hours a day
36:48and five six days a week they were
36:51getting more production
36:53instead of working a man 10 hours
36:54daylight and 12 hours night turn
36:57they're getting more production and
36:59doing a hell a lot better so they kept
37:01it that way they didn't they didn't
37:02change it okay but then the NRA also
37:05said that people have the right to
37:07organize
37:08Wagner Act the Wagner Act gave us that
37:12right the not the not the National
37:13Recovery Act the Wagner Act gave us that
37:15right okay what did the NRA
37:19how did that affect your work at JNL it
37:22did affect it it took two hours off my
37:24day and it gave me a 10 cent in our
37:26raise okay but did not the NRA is that
37:30did not the company started doing the
37:33erps after the NRA was passed
37:37oh
37:39the the the company started their Erp
37:44when they were starting to get like like
37:47in 33 the union struck over in Ambridge
37:5135 36 is when they started Erp they
37:55started to to try to pacify them in by
37:58making them believe they had
37:59representation
38:01but how can you have representation if
38:02you have a person that you don't even
38:04know that that's supposed to represent
38:06you
38:07how can you have representation if
38:09you're getting an argument with the boss
38:10and you don't know where to go
38:13to State your case
38:16we don't know who these people were
38:19we know who the Erp man were they were
38:21listed on a board you didn't vote for
38:23him
38:25say uh uh Pat Cherry was an Erp man
38:29who's Pat Cherry he's a roller on 19.
38:33he works three turns
38:35he might be on the other turn you might
38:37be 12-8 and he might be daylight four to
38:40twelve so you have a problem what are
38:41you gonna do with that Jerry if he's
38:43your representative what do you do with
38:45Paul Norman if he's a representative you
38:47know Paul Norman was represented they
38:49had no power no power at all we asked
38:51for a raise and and Erp went to bad
38:54force or supposed to have gone to bed
38:56you know what they gave us I was making
38:5757 cents they come back with a half a
38:59cent 57.5 cents in our road okay so then
39:03when you realize that the erps weren't
39:06going to work
39:07for you
39:09what did you do
39:11oh
39:13we just
39:14look for a place to find somebody we
39:17found it
39:18The Amalgamated we joined it
39:21and then it became the swoc then became
39:24the CIO
39:25and we got stronger and stronger you
39:27know there's only 80 people shut down
39:29that plant 36 37 only 80 people okay
39:33well tell me about The Amalgamated how
39:35The Amalgamated in 1935 34-35 I really
39:40don't know how it happened honest to God
39:42I don't
39:44all I know is
39:46I'm a person
39:48that all my life
39:50all my life
39:52I hate prejudicism
39:56I hate people
39:59Force other people to do
40:03things they don't want to do
40:06I hate to go down
40:09to a voting booth and be told
40:11what a great American you are
40:14to vote for people that just won't
40:16represent you
40:18and somehow or other
40:21me and Benny pizzelli art Silvis and
40:24Tony Bianchi
40:26ran into manual Woods
40:30he was the international representative
40:32how it happened to beer garden something
40:33because Benny drank
40:35Tony drank or Silvis drank and I was I
40:39was the official
40:40non-drinker and kept everything peaceful
40:42and we met Nana and Nanny he says he was
40:45uh Amalgamated and all that stuff so we
40:47went up we joined
40:49they had a beer garden downstairs and my
40:52killer was the bartender hey batala was
40:55the president
40:57and we joined then after a while Abe
41:00says uh
41:07and go ahead you'll see the company's
41:09opposition to a union was very simple
41:13would you want anybody interfering
41:16with your business
41:18if you had complete control
41:20over everybody that works for you you
41:22tell them what to eat you tell them
41:24where to live
41:25you tell them how much water to drink
41:28you tell them where to buy property and
41:30you tell them where to go to work
41:33now here comes a group of people who say
41:35wait a minute
41:36that isn't all there is in this life
41:39there also is a choice
41:43maybe I don't want to live up plant
41:44living
41:45maybe I don't want to live on Franklin
41:47Avenue
41:49maybe I want to build a house up plan
41:5112.
41:52but there's no property for you there
41:54you can't buy
41:56we won't sell it to you it's all wood on
41:59Land Company
42:00maybe I want to live a plan six
42:03can't go there either why not
42:05no room
42:09where do you want me to go
42:12go up to Terrace there's a few Lots up
42:14there
42:15now you must remember we that at the
42:18time
42:20we didn't have no Sheffield Terrace and
42:22we didn't have no linmar
42:24so you had a choice to go out there okay
42:27gel again
42:29I don't need to know that because no
42:30one's going to know no he's going to
42:31nobody that's all right now
42:34can you tell me specifically what the
42:37company did to keep people well they had
42:41the Erp DRP range for picnics
42:47they arranged for bus tours down a meal
42:49for the wise
42:51you know we had picnics down here that
42:53up in Morrell Park
42:55and that's not what I'm looking for what
42:58I'm looking for is uh uh firings threats
43:02survival and the story about when they
43:05dragged you out of your bed well that
43:06that story there that
43:09go
43:10you must understand that uh anybody
43:14that even thought Union
43:16they had no recourse
43:19my elbow was fired my brother was fired
43:22Blackboard
43:26I was almost beaten up because I played
43:28with The Amalgamated baseball team
43:32and they didn't want anybody from
43:34Aliquippa to play against us they're
43:36with us
43:37so when I come home 11 to 7 I'm working
43:41I went to bed my mother was alone my
43:44brothers were working my sisters were in
43:46school
43:48three cops came up
43:50threw me out of bed broke my bed and
43:52they were going to Blackjack me and
43:53fortunately one of the cops was uh the
43:57president of the Indian club and I
43:58played football for the Indians and so
44:00he told me he says well hold it he said
44:02they called me Perry that's another
44:05thing
44:06nobody knew how to spell perellio see so
44:09so these people that wrote your name uh
44:12they put down what they wanted so they
44:14called me Perry he said I'll take care
44:15of Perry you you guys leave him alone
44:17he's I'll talk to him after all he says
44:19I'm president of the club he said I can
44:20take care of this so they left me alone
44:21but they broke my bed my mother got
44:23scared
44:24and she actually uh did
44:28dirt yourself and because she she's just
44:31frightened of that that goes back to the
44:34fascist days you know in Italy they saw
44:36a uniform the August so that was it
44:40oh yeah no
44:42what else is
44:44probably a minute okay tell me about uh
44:47describe Tom girdler in the pre-enter
44:50you said he was inhuman he was inhuman
44:52he he he yet to say his name Tom girdler
44:56was an inhuman bastard
44:59everybody knew him
45:01he was there only a year or two when I
45:03got there then he went up to Republic
45:05Steel and he killed one of our people up
45:07there on that strike in Youngstown
45:11he set up things that that plant was
45:13never worth working for you know
45:16Republic Steel was uh I don't know why
45:19people worked up there Janelle was bad
45:22enough but my God that place was a real
45:24hell hole it proved in the last
45:27few years they they took all their
45:30pension money they took all of their uh
45:33vacation money they just sent those guys
45:35out in the streets with nothing
45:39well the 37
45:45the 37 strike came about only because we
45:48asked
45:49the company to recognize
45:52the CIO as as the only representative of
45:55the workers and the company turned us
45:58down
45:59so Paul called a strike
46:02we ran down there's only less than 100
46:05people that actually did the closing
46:07down but whenever by the time we got
46:08there there was thousands you know
46:11and we were well prepared
46:14we had the uh
46:15truck on the side with weapons because
46:18the other side was all armed they were
46:21legal we weren't
46:23and like
46:25it was said before they turned the hoses
46:27on us
46:28and we had a problem with the police the
46:30police would bother us but the governor
46:32Earl came down declared martial law and
46:33he brought the state police down with
46:35him they chased all of our cops they
46:36told our police to go up
46:38stay in a police station and do not come
46:41out unless they were told
46:44now our Police Department
46:47which I haven't mentioned before which
46:49were under the jurisdiction of
46:52Captain Harris at that time every
46:54morning our Police Department would go
46:56up get a report from Captain Harris and
46:58they would compare notes on what went on
46:59how to equip what they were going to
47:00have to do what they were not going to
47:02have to do with the Union people who
47:03would ever want to stop and all that
47:05stuff now they knew everything about
47:06right they they had they had a spy
47:08system that was out of this world but
47:10anyway when we got down there and closed
47:12the plant down
47:13and it was just stopping
47:16the uh mail truck from going through
47:20and Crystal Market came through a couple
47:23of times and finally we got better
47:24organized and we stopped the crystal
47:25Market from coming then Mary's gang
47:28turned to
47:30mail truck over but then we had the
47:32rumors that they were coming on the
47:34Riverside see
47:36so a bunch of the gangs that had boats
47:38drove over Ambridge got in their boats
47:40and they patrolled the Ohio River we had
47:43to do that because we understand the
47:45crystal Market had drove a truck across
47:48the river and they were going to come
47:49over and Supply the people with with
47:51boats see so they stopped that and then
47:55I was down the corner
47:56in my neighbor
47:59she started beating they say that she
48:01Feliz wasn't chief of police she started
48:02how he got stuck outside I don't know
48:04but the hiring agent got stuck outside
48:07and Mr Samuel
48:10she got all right with him he's trying
48:11to sneak in so she had umbrella she
48:13started to beat them on the head
48:15she's chased him up kills up the street
48:18and and I went after because like she
48:20you know she was like my neighbor for
48:21100 years she was an elderly woman I was
48:24afraid something would happen to her
48:25okay let me let me sort of refocus this
48:28again now
48:30you're out on strike I need for you to
48:32tell me what it was that you won with
48:35the strike and why that was important
48:37well finally after it was all settled
48:40and they
48:42gave us what we wanted
48:44that was a right
48:46to vote
48:48for the union of our choice
48:51okay so the company says all right
48:54the international
48:56the the Wagner Act where they gave us
48:59the right they gave us a date
49:01and we voted
49:04and we came out now equipped over 80
49:07percent
49:08and that shocked JNL because you figure
49:10eighty percent it had to be a hell a lot
49:13of bosses to vote now there was a thing
49:15there that you must understand
49:17the people out there never never voted
49:19like this
49:21we had a vote they had 13 000 people
49:24down to Aliquippa
49:28Pittsburgh had like seven eight thousand
49:32now everybody counted
49:35if you were sick you and you didn't vote
49:37there was no
49:39if you died that day they hadn't buried
49:41you yet it was no
49:44if you didn't vote
49:46it was no
49:48you understand
49:49they took the total
49:51say there's 13 000 people in Aliquippa
49:55and ten thousand voters that three
49:57thousand voted no
49:59because they didn't vote we had to beat
50:00everybody we had to beat superintendents
50:02the policemen and they didn't ask for a
50:05union we had to beat everybody that
50:07worked
50:08and got paid by JNL the board of
50:12directors the president uh
50:14everybody
50:16and we beat them by 80 percent
50:18okay now how did you feel what did that
50:21Victory mean to the union organizing
50:24effort
50:26exhilarated
50:28we finally knew
50:30that we were going to work like human
50:32beings
50:33you know people
50:35talk about working in a steel mill and
50:38especially these younger people how they
50:40slept Hardy didn't do this how to get
50:43out of time
50:44in the 30s
50:49and then we had now we had to write we
50:52had the right to move up you understand
50:55I didn't work 30 years
50:59for for a wage
51:01and never got a raise
51:06I worked 18 years
51:08as a journeyman Machinist
51:11and never got a raise
51:14one of my
51:15co-workers worked 32 years
51:18as a journeyman that's 69 cents in there
51:20never got a raise I can't that's getting
51:23out of the 30s you know I mean no no no
51:25no no no no no no no no 30s okay let me
51:28ask the next question
51:29tell me about FDR and what FDR emit to
51:33the steel workers organizing committee
51:34well FDR meant to Salvation of of the of
51:39the Union The Working Man can always
51:41worked if he's willing to take
51:43the the uh rules and regulations of
51:46whoever he's hired to you can always
51:48work
51:49you can work for a man and pick and
51:51shovel if he tells you to dig a hole you
51:52dig it if he tells you dig it 10 feet
51:54you dig it that's all right
51:56but Roosevelt gave us the right
51:59to tell a man wait a minute
52:04we can't live with this wage
52:06we can't work 12 hours a day we can't
52:09work seven days a week
52:12and why is it that you let that man work
52:15five days a week and I have to stay home
52:19and I'm older than him I would start to
52:21work here before him
52:22the most important thing we won was
52:24seniority
52:27you see that gave you the right no
52:29matter what color you were or what what
52:30you were it gave you the right for The
52:33Next Step Up
52:36tell me why still workers feel it was
52:39important to become involved in
52:41electoral politics oh
52:44yeah that question it answers itself how
52:48how do you uh
52:53make rules
52:55by
52:57be a rulemaker
52:59it's the only way you make a rule to
53:01make a rule you got to be able to make
53:02the rules so the only way you can make a
53:03rule is be in a position to make it you
53:06have to be a councilman or you have to
53:08be a mayor we have to be a School
53:09director
53:10or you have to be a governor you can't
53:12make rules without being in a position
53:14to make them so we do that
53:17we have the judge is done
53:20Beaver County you go down there and
53:23you're a steel worker and you do
53:24something wrong
53:25you went to jail
53:28one of the fairer boys got down there
53:31go home
53:40now we realized after we had got
53:43permission to organize the union all
53:45that we had to go into the political
53:46Arena
53:47to solidify
53:51our rights we we we had to vote
53:55we had to take over the town we had to
53:59take over the county we had to put
54:01ourselves a position where we elected
54:02the sheriffs so they wouldn't break up
54:04our picket lines we had to put ourselves
54:06in position we could elect judges when
54:08they wouldn't serve injunctions against
54:10us to stop us from doing the things we
54:12had to do
54:13and to force the company
54:15in in if we had a strike
54:18to give us what we thought was right
54:22perfect now
54:25um
54:29how did you feel when your candidate
54:32started winning elections how did that
54:33feel
54:36the first time
54:39we elected Democrats
54:42it was such a long hard Road
54:47now the ethnic groups that were forced
54:49into different plans
54:53was the very thing that broke
54:56J and L's hold on Aliquippa
54:59plan 11.
55:02was the first to solidify themselves
55:05into a strong core
55:08of democracy voters
55:12but we had to do a lot of work
55:16from
55:17plan one
55:18to plan 12. we faced all
55:22the people
55:24that were the majority of Angelo saxtons
55:28and it took us years and years to find a
55:32solidify our votes to where we
55:36voted most of our candidates to the
55:37Democrats but
55:40we thought well
55:41the way we can beat these guys is get
55:44Angelo Saxons to run and we did
55:47and we elected an Angelo Saxon the first
55:50time we elected an agile sacks on the
55:52council we elected one on a school board
55:54and we elected an auditor
55:56and we felt like we were the Champs of
55:59the world we'd beat Jack Dempsey in 15
56:01rounds
56:03you will never believe
56:05how we felt Mary tell you up to
56:08Democratic Club
56:11we drank all night
56:14now
56:15when you think back on the union and
56:18what you accomplished what makes you the
56:20most proud
56:31go to work like a man
56:34be a man
56:36work with pride and dignity
56:49all right Alex we got that good
56:54okay but we're looking for how
56:57again the plans how the plans which were
56:59which were designed to separate people
57:01yeah brought people together and that's
57:04how
57:05he really ended up beating him and
57:07changing this whole political system
57:10here if you can give me something on
57:12that you ready
57:13now the the plan
57:17of the Woodlawn Land Company or JNL to
57:22segregate
57:23and to put all the ethnic groups in in
57:25different
57:27parts of the Town actually
57:30was a thing that that really defeated
57:34their purpose
57:36especially in the plan 11 area where the
57:3875 or 80 percent of them were of Italian
57:40descent
57:42and they formed the Italian Club
57:44and when some of the men up there got
57:46rid of the stool pigeons
57:49and changed the philosophy
57:52of the people's thinking up there
57:55and they became a solid Democratic group
57:58they led the way
58:00they were the ones that came through at
58:02the last hour or so with thousand twelve
58:05hundred votes and no matter how far you
58:07were behind we always had a chance
58:09because we knew plan 11 would would make
58:11a big difference
58:13Westdale was just a little different
58:16Westdale equipment one time was a
58:18community of its own
58:20but they too
58:22were predominantly Italian
58:26and they had
58:30a church Saint Joseph I think the name
58:33was and and the sons of Italy
58:37and these two groups
58:39the church group and the sons of Italy
58:41group also
58:42got together and changed the philosophy
58:45of the people that worked in that town
58:48let me ask you something else let me let
58:49me I just thought about this one now can
58:53you give me anything on how it was um
58:58economic survival you know economic
59:01Justice that brought people together to
59:04beat J L
59:05I mean no matter what ethnic group you
59:08came from still people had the same
59:11economic problem in terms of dealing
59:13with JNL you had to make money okay so
59:16tell me how that economic
59:20Calamity that everybody face brought
59:22people together
59:25well see
59:27you're bringing up a problem that was a
59:28very peculiar thing
59:31economically we were better off with JNL
59:33that we are today
59:36because J and L every time
59:39that we needed money
59:41General gave it to us
59:43because they ran the town okay you see
59:46this is what I'm trying to make no I I
59:47hope that's not honest that's not you
59:49know that you don't want to know that
59:51but that's what that's the point I'm
59:53trying to I don't I understand what
59:55you're saying but that's getting us out
59:57of time you know no no that was right
59:59there was in that area we're comparing
1:00:01now
1:00:06what I'm talking about is the fact that
1:00:11JNL had the town sold up
1:00:20now
1:00:24what I gained most as individual
1:00:28for my association with the Union
1:00:29Democratic Party
1:00:31is a fact
1:00:33that I can go to work now is a man
1:00:37no fear
1:00:38and proud of what I can accomplish
1:00:45and if I do the kind of a job I'm being
1:00:47paid for
1:00:50and somebody says I didn't do it right
1:00:53and they try to discipline me in any way
1:00:57I have no fear
1:00:59of going
1:01:00to my union
1:01:02has stating the case
1:01:05and have somebody other than
1:01:09myself
1:01:11fight my case for me
1:01:13now before
1:01:15I had nowhere to go
1:01:17if he says I was a bad worker and I
1:01:20couldn't prove otherwise I went out the
1:01:22door
1:01:23but now I can go all the way to the top
1:01:28now what you wanted absolutely now tell
1:01:31me how going through the depression
1:01:33changed you and changed America
1:01:40Heaven nothing
1:01:45sort of makes you uh
1:01:48care for one another
1:01:51there's no
1:01:53saying well
1:01:56this guy got so much
1:01:59and I don't have anything
1:02:02do you know
1:02:04on my street
1:02:06there was a family that had one radio
1:02:09the only family on the street that had a
1:02:11radio
1:02:16Dempsey and Tony had the first fight in
1:02:181929.
1:02:20and this woman she put the chairs in her
1:02:22living room invited the neighborhood
1:02:26to come up and listen to that fight
1:02:28and there was 20 people in there
1:02:30serve coffee and cake
1:02:32she was able to do it because her
1:02:34husband owned a grocery store
1:02:36but she shared with us
1:02:39Christmas
1:02:41we had syrians on one side of us
1:02:43serbians on the other
1:02:46we always celebrated two Christmases
1:02:48we celebrated 25th
1:02:51and just and the Russian Orthodox
1:02:54serbians they celebrated with us
1:02:58then when it came to seventh
1:03:00we went to their place whatever they had
1:03:02they had always their fare was always
1:03:05lamb and pig
1:03:06and always was ours was the fish and the
1:03:10spaghetti and the chicken you know
1:03:12and that's what we did on our holidays
1:03:14the Easters was the same way we had two
1:03:16Easters but tell me about
1:03:18how going through the depression made
1:03:21people come together
1:03:23and look out for each other and care for
1:03:26each other
1:03:27and share with each other just to try to
1:03:29struggle through it and make it to the
1:03:31other side
1:03:33it's hard to answer it
1:03:37where would you begin
1:03:40one of your
1:03:41family gets sick and the Neighbors come
1:03:43in
1:03:45you can't pay for a nurse and they help
1:03:46you nurse
1:03:47watch your children
1:03:52if you have
1:03:54if you're sick and have to go to the
1:03:55hospital you have three or four kids who
1:03:57takes care of your neighbors
1:04:01if your child is sick like my brothers
1:04:03my nephew
1:04:06The Neighbors come in took care of them
1:04:09you know when you were sick in those
1:04:10days you got pneumonia or chickenpox or
1:04:14the smallpox oh they they they they uh
1:04:17quarantined you what do you do then so
1:04:20your neighbors had to come around and
1:04:21hand things to you through the window
1:04:23and you couldn't go shopping you
1:04:25couldn't do nothing you couldn't go to
1:04:26school
1:04:28but they were always there when you
1:04:30needed them
1:04:31and you and they were their winner they
1:04:34needed you and when you needed them it
1:04:37was the same always always shared shared
1:04:39everything
1:04:40no matter what happened
1:04:42how much we got Rick
1:04:46the most important thing
1:04:49between policies
1:04:54wait a minute
1:04:56yeah the most important thing between
1:04:59organizing a political group or a union
1:05:03you'll find
1:05:04that when you organize a union
1:05:07you're dealing with an individual group
1:05:09you're dealing with steel workers or
1:05:12Auto Workers or coal miners so you're
1:05:14talking each other's language
1:05:17but when you go into politics
1:05:19it's a much much harder thing to do to
1:05:23get the groups together because you're
1:05:26thinking now or or you're dealing with
1:05:28people that have all kinds of thoughts
1:05:32Democrats socialism Republican fascism
1:05:37idealists all over the world and
1:05:39politics is where you have a hard time
1:05:44to make people understand what you're
1:05:47trying to do
1:05:48in an Aliquippa we had a long hard thing
1:05:52like I say we organized Union in four
1:05:54years
1:05:56it took us
1:05:5837
1:06:0156 58 that's 20 odd some years before we
1:06:05control the town
1:06:09Hawaii
1:06:10because you were dealing with again
1:06:13those plans
1:06:16you were dealing with plant 11 plant 12
1:06:18plant six plant eight plant nine
1:06:21and you had everybody had their own
1:06:25group
1:06:26and to bring them together was much
1:06:28harder
1:06:29than to bring a union together
1:06:33as I said before we brought a union
1:06:35together in four years it took us 40
1:06:36years to get the Democrats together
1:06:39all worth it
1:06:42truth
1:06:44no
1:06:46you forget one element
1:06:48the human element
1:06:50greed
1:06:57so you have a group that carries your
1:06:59banner
1:07:01we're all Democrats
1:07:07why is our town in such bad shape
1:07:12some of my friends used to argued back
1:07:13in 36 and 37 when I was advocating a
1:07:17solid Democrat solid Democrat I have two
1:07:19cake eating friends English reading very
1:07:21good friends in fact one of them was my
1:07:23best man when I got married
1:07:24and they always tell me Joe you're wrong
1:07:27you're better off having a minority
1:07:30group you're no good with a solid slate
1:07:34of one
1:07:36political party or another
1:07:39and over the years
1:07:41I'm starting to believe that they're
1:07:43right
1:07:45you should always have a minority
1:07:46because a professor from Penn State told
1:07:48me one time
1:07:50if you're in a group
1:07:53and you
1:07:55make a suggestions and there's nobody in
1:07:57that group to challenge it
1:08:03then you can't prove a point you always
1:08:05have to have
1:08:07somebody challenge you
1:08:09and now we don't have anybody to
1:08:11challenge we've got all Democrats
1:08:13our school system stinks
1:08:16or town stinks
1:08:18you see it boarded up
1:08:20nothing going
1:08:24what happened
1:08:27that's it that's it

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