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Interview with Capt. Jim Lovell 50 years after Apollo 13, before his death in 2025 — Transcript

by Milwaukee Journal Sentinel · 3,016 words · 530 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00ten nine eight ignition sequence has
0:04started
0:05six five four three
0:08two one zero
0:11we have commit and we have liftoff at
0:13213.
0:15the saturn v building up to 7.6 million
0:18pounds of thrust and it has cleared the
0:20tower
0:22this is mission control houston we
0:23appear to have a good first stage at
0:25this point
0:26roll program you can ride your own
0:3413 we've got one more item for you when
0:35you get a chance we'd like you to
0:37stir up your cryo tanks okay
0:43[Applause]
0:48okay we've had a problem here
0:52this is houston again please
1:00[Music]
1:13when i was a young kid i i learned a
1:16little bit about what the germans were
1:18doing and v2s because this is during
1:20world war
1:21ii and i got really interested in
1:22rocketry eventually then
1:25my senior year in high school i got hold
1:27of a pamphlet
1:28by robert goddard he was a scientist
1:32in worcester massachusetts and written a
1:35pamphlet this is 1913 on
1:38using liquid rocket engines to obtain
1:42high altitudes
1:43and i didn't understand a lot of what he
1:46was saying
1:47but it got me very much interested and
1:49so my senior year in high school
1:51we a friend of mine and i we built a
1:54little solid rocket
1:55you know just to keep the enthusiasm
1:57going and i went into
1:59university wisconsin mechanical
2:02engineering i can't tell you today why i
2:04did that but i kind of
2:05thought that that would finally need me
2:07if i could get a degree in mechanical
2:09engineering i could get into whatever i
2:11wanted to do
2:12i and probably just about everybody else
2:14didn't really think about space flight
2:16except in a uh
2:17more or less in a fantastic thing i've
2:19read a lot about
2:21all the comics about space people and
2:23things like that
2:25and of course i was interested in
2:26rockers and going up there but
2:28but it was all imagination at this
2:31particular time
2:32until nasa you put out the requirement
2:36for
2:37for doing the the mercury program the
2:40first time they asked for astronauts
2:41i was a you know i had a
2:45graduate of a test pilot school and so i
2:47was asked if i wanted to
2:49join the group and i said well certainly
2:51yes this is
2:52this is what i've always wanted to do
2:54and i went to take my physical with the
2:56original
2:5832 that were thing and i was the only
3:00guy to flunk
3:01and i was disappointed
3:04and then about two years later i knew
3:06nasa needed some more
3:08astronauts and so they finally came out
3:10and asked for
3:12more volunteers and the navy called me
3:14again and said
3:15are you interested in getting back in
3:17the program or getting into the program
3:19and they didn't know that i had flunked
3:21the physical the first time and i said
3:22certainly
3:24and i then i applied again and then i
3:26made it to the gemini program
3:32uh when i came back from apollo 8 i was
3:34assigned to
3:35neil armstrong's backup backup commander
3:39of apollo 11.
3:40and uh during that time
3:44buzz aldrin was the co-pilot or
3:47the to kneel for the final eleventh
3:50flight
3:50and there was a lot of animosity because
3:52uh sort of
3:54buzz thought that he should be the first
3:56one to
3:57walk down the ladder and step on the
3:59moon one time
4:01uh nasa management
4:04talked to neil and said look if you want
4:06to uh
4:07we'll replace buzz with with lovell
4:11and uh and neil said now
4:14now i'll stick with buzz only because i
4:16know that jim wants to be a
4:18uh and be a commander of one of these
4:20flights and if
4:21he goes as a as a secondary guy then he
4:24probably because he'd be
4:27on the moon too that he'd be asked to do
4:30other things and never get another
4:31flight
4:32and so he it was it was neil that you
4:34know said i'll stick with buzz
4:38apollo 13 was the most unusual flight
4:42being on a flight that had an accident
4:44200 000 miles
4:46and getting back safely working closely
4:49with mission control
4:50but doing all the execution of the stuff
4:52that we had to do
4:54it it really is a more of an indication
4:58of
4:58the ability of what someone can do than
5:00just being the second guy on the moon
5:18well apollo 13 was going to be the third
5:20lunar mission
5:22we're going to go to a place called from
5:24morrow
5:25this is going to be a sort of a
5:27mountainous type
5:28or more of a hilly type facility
5:32than the previous two flights and
5:35because they
5:36thought that the material there was
5:38different than the material that had
5:39been brought back on 11 and 12.
5:4213 we've got one more item for you when
5:44you get a chance we'd like you to
5:46stir up your cryo tanks in addition i
5:49have shaft and trunnion
5:50okay for a look at the common bennett if
5:52you need it
5:54okay first of all when they were
5:57building the liquid oxygen tanks
5:59the company building like liquid oxygen
6:01tanks dropped a tank
6:04on the factory floor the tank was
6:08originally going into an apollo 10 i
6:11think
6:13but because it was delayed that was
6:15rescheduled for apollo
6:1713. they picked it up uh
6:21and they rechecked it to make sure that
6:23it could do its job
6:24deliver oxygen to the spacecraft for
6:27breathing and from real making
6:30electrical power
6:31everything worked fine but the tank had
6:34a second objective
6:36uh or second function i should say
6:40there was a tubing inside that tank
6:43so arranged that
6:46after a test they could remove the
6:49liquid oxygen
6:50by just blowing gaseous oxygen in the
6:53fill line and it would be forced out the
6:55vent line
6:56that too was damaged at the drop of the
6:59tank
7:00they did not check whether
7:04that would function or not
7:10now let me go back to 1965.
7:14at the launch site there was 65 volt
7:17power
7:18available for operations even though the
7:21spacecraft flew at a 28 volt power
7:23system
7:25they thought that if something just
7:26happened in the spacecraft on the launch
7:28site
7:29why do i make it capable to use that
7:31power
7:32so the manufacturer of the spacecraft
7:35told the manufacturer of the liquid
7:37oxygen tanks
7:39remove the thermostats and replace them
7:42with ones that are capable of handling
7:4465 volt power the thermostats were never
7:47replaced
7:49and the spacecraft manufacturer
7:52never double checked to see that that
7:55directive was complied with okay
7:58now back on the launch site two weeks
8:00before the launch
8:02they try to remove the liquid oxygen
8:04impossible
8:06so they said well wait a second we have
8:08power out of the launch site that's 65
8:10volt power uh
8:12they're protected why would just apply
8:14that power
8:15and and inside the liquidizer tank there
8:18was a little heater
8:19and the heater was used during the
8:21flight to convert
8:23some of the liquid into gaseous oxygen
8:25to function into the spacecraft
8:27let's turn that heater on and just boil
8:29the oxygen out at that time because
8:31everything else was fine
8:33that's what they did turned the heater
8:36on
8:37and sure enough as they were protected
8:39the liquid oxygen started
8:40going to gases but the temperature in
8:43the tank
8:44rose when it got up to 80 degrees
8:47fahrenheit
8:48the little thermostats capable of
8:51loading 28
8:52started to open up to protect the thing
8:55but the 65-volt power
8:56wealth of the shut and from then on
8:59there was no protection
9:01we know now that the temperature inside
9:03that tank got up to a three or four
9:05hundred degrees fahrenheit
9:08took took all the liquid oxygen out
9:11no no bomb no no fire but melted
9:14all the wire the protective wiring uh on
9:17there and
9:18exposed all the wiring to a potential
9:21spark of some sort but it was not
9:23detected
9:24nothing happened oxygen was removed
9:27the day before the launch the tank was
9:30filled up with liquid oxygen
9:32from that time the tank was a bomb
9:36waiting to go off two hundred thousand
9:39miles from space on april 13th
9:41swickered through a switch to turn on
9:44the heater a little bit to get
9:45oxygen and the tank blew
9:55okay listen listen to you guys we've
9:57lost uh fuel cell one
10:01we lost uh o2 tank two pressure
10:06okay stand by they got a problem
10:12i heard just a big sharp bang and the
10:15spacecraft rocked back and forth
10:18and then i looked up at fred hayes to
10:20see if he knew what caused the problem
10:22and then i as i got into the command
10:25module looked to jack swecker and his
10:27eyes were
10:27white as saucers he didn't know what the
10:30problem was
10:31but the first indications that something
10:33was wrong was the fact i noticed that
10:35one of our fuel cells
10:37was inoperative and then as they started
10:40to glance around at various things
10:42i saw that in our indicators of the
10:45liquid oxygen
10:46one tank was empty and one tank had the
10:49fuel
10:50oxygen going down and so i knew that
10:54something was definitely wrong
10:55i can't tell you why today why i looked
10:58out the window but when i looked out the
11:00side window i saw
11:02escaping at a high rate of speed sort of
11:04a fan
11:06system that uh uh a gaseous substance
11:23and it didn't take much intelligence on
11:24my part to understand that the
11:26corner gauges that i'm looking at and
11:29and
11:30the gas that i was saying that we're
11:31losing all of our liquid oxygen
11:33and very quickly we'd be out of liquid
11:36oxygen
11:37uh and essentially the whole command
11:39module would die
11:41this was a flight that was snake pit
11:43print for the from the very beginning
11:45and so when the explosion occurred you
11:48know
11:49that was the epitome of the problems
11:53here in mission control we're looking
11:55now looking towards an alternate mission
11:58swinging around the moon and using the
12:02lunar module power systems because of
12:04the situation that
12:06has developed here this evening this is
12:08apollo control houston
12:11when that explosion occurred my dream
12:13evaporated
12:14i knew that there would be no landing of
12:1713 on the moon
12:19regardless of what the situation before
12:21i knew what was happening i knew that
12:23there was
12:25and it was only after i came back and
12:28landed
12:29safely that i was disappointed
12:32that the situation occurred that i never
12:35could land on
12:38can we review our status here psy and
12:40see what we've got from a standpoint of
12:42status what do you think we got in the
12:43spacecraft that's good
12:45the explosion occurred at just the only
12:48place
12:49that it could have happened that would
12:52result in a successful recovery
12:56if it happened any time after we got
12:59in lunar orbit or when we were on the
13:01surface
13:03we'd never have the fuel to get either
13:06back up to rendezvous with the command
13:08module or even
13:09to get uncaptured by the moon
13:12okay does it look like it's still going
13:14down it's
13:16slowly going to zero and we're starting
13:19to think about the lamb life boat
13:21yeah that's what we're thinking about
13:23too
13:25well we all came to the conclusion that
13:27the only way we're going to get home was
13:29to use the lunar module as a lifeboat
13:31and what it has and
13:32does it have enough oxygen and things
13:34like that well the luna module
13:36was not a device you want to spend a lot
13:37of time in uh
13:40it's it was designed for two people for
13:42two days
13:43and of course we had schweicher that kim
13:45came in too so there's three people and
13:47we're there
13:48as we've determined now for at least
13:50four days to get home
13:51uh and so it's it was kind of cramped
13:54and of course the first thing we had to
13:55do was
13:56uh power down everything so
14:00to save electrical power but the main
14:03thing that we had to worry about we
14:04found out
14:05was the carbon dioxide in the lunar
14:08module
14:12it took a bit of innovation and in
14:15thinking
14:16uh to make that difference and uh we did
14:19it
14:20and uh so you know i'm really
14:23happy that the coup got the information
14:25and we could actually
14:26make it so that we wouldn't uh pass out
14:29by
14:30starting to breathe carbon dioxide as we
14:34got towards the earth and we're getting
14:36ready to
14:37take care of everything we managed to
14:39get electrical power back into the
14:42command module's uh a battery
14:46so have enough power there to have the
14:48command module alone
14:50to the for the descent as it floated
14:52away
14:53we could take pictures of the whole side
14:56of these
14:58service module being blown out and
15:00that's when we worried about
15:02well that was kind of close to the heat
15:04shield
15:05did it damage the heat shield alone but
15:07there was nothing we could do about it
15:09anyway
15:10if the heat shield was damaged it was
15:11damaged and so that was it
15:13well then after we got rid of the
15:15service module we eventually
15:16got rid of the lunar module and we were
15:19by ourselves in this command module
15:21again
15:22and hopefully that with the power now we
15:25have the computer
15:26running again and it knew where we were
15:29and it knew where we were supposed to
15:31land
15:32at least that's what we hoped he did
15:34with all this rearrangements
15:36and so we got into the back end and we
15:39started our
15:40descent but it wasn't it wasn't until
15:43we were safely on the water and i could
15:46see
15:47droplets in the window and knew that we
15:50had come back
15:51to the earth that if in unless
15:54the task force was someplace else i
15:58think we are in pretty good shape
16:10[Music]
16:15well i think that our our odds at the
16:18time of the explosion occurred
16:20well we lost and we knew we lost the
16:22command
16:23module that whole system that we're
16:26they're pretty low
16:27they're but the thing is when you're in
16:30a situation like this you don't think of
16:32the odds you think of only how to
16:35approve
16:36the odds it was a beautiful case of good
16:39leadership uh good teamwork
16:43and the good use of initiative
16:46by the you know ground control people
16:48who did a great job
16:50working closely with the crew who was
16:53executing all those things correctly so
16:55that's what got us home
17:08i never left maryland a farewell
17:12letter in apollo 8 i never did either
17:16now my two companions
17:17warmon and anders wrote farewell letters
17:20instead i
17:21had neiman marcus deliver a christmas
17:24package on christmas eve
17:26as my farewell about and on 13 of course
17:30i never really thought about that by
17:31this time i thought things were
17:33really routine i mean you know uh
17:36there's the chances of a big accident
17:38are less and less we've had
17:39a couple of successful flights now at
17:42the press conference
17:44after 13 behind me was
17:47can't a lot of nasa's uh hierarchy
17:51and uh a newspaper guy got up on this
17:55big and they said
17:56jim are you going to ask to have another
17:59flight
18:01into that brief moment
18:04that thousandth of a second i said oh my
18:07god
18:08what a chance to get these guys and
18:12nail it on and so i was about ready to
18:14say why
18:16naturally because you know they won't
18:17guarantee and then i looked out in the
18:20back of the audience
18:21and there was a hand that went up and i
18:26said
18:28and it was my wife
18:31and so i said well i think we ought to
18:34let some other people try it
18:41i thought a lemon was the natural thing
18:43to
18:44have make a movie out of 13 was a little
18:47bit different
18:48and i have to think quite often
18:52and talking to my cohorts saying mission
18:55a movie i've done a lot of uh talks with
18:58with uh gene krantz and i would like to
19:02say it i haven't told him yet but
19:03next time i see him i'm going to say it
19:05now gene
19:06what would have happened if apollo 13
19:10was successful
19:12you know there wasn't an explosion a
19:14movie would not have been made
19:16you wouldn't have become famous when ed
19:18harris said
19:19failure is not an option
19:25i thought that we should go back to the
19:26moon and learn
19:28about going to the moon uh with the
19:31proper
19:32architecture and make it a routine thing
19:35so we can use that to go to mars
19:39and eventually because someone's going
19:40to go to mars
19:42only because mars is there
19:46well when i first came down of course i
19:48thought 13 was a failure
19:50and also nasa
19:54thought it was a failure they didn't
19:56really understand the significance
19:58of what happened as a matter of fact
20:02they tried to emphasize apollo 12 and
20:06an apollo 11. apollo 13's command module
20:09after it was inspected
20:11ended up in a in a warehouse
20:17my thoughts are that the accident of
20:20apollo 13 was the best thing that could
20:22happen to nasa
20:23people were getting very complacent and
20:26and so when 13
20:27occurred at the time that it occurred
20:30because that it could have been a
20:32complete disaster which would have
20:33probably ruined the whole space program
20:36uh it was the best thing that could have
20:38happened because it brought out the
20:40ingenuity
20:41the leadership and the teamwork that
20:44that the nasa control center had along
20:46with the
20:47crew they could do
20:50actually comply with and execute the
20:53things that
20:53we got back and spacecraft of
20:57almost certain catastrophe to a
20:59successful recovery
21:01so i'm very proud of 13. even though
21:04i didn't land on the moon that was a
21:06disappointment for me
21:08but then you know a lot of people landed
21:10on the moon so
21:12so why should i you know and a 13 was a
21:15very successful
21:16flight i would be sitting here today to
21:18talk about it
21:45you

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