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Interview with Alan Bean (part 1) — Transcript

by Humanoid History (Humanoid History) · 4,268 words · 568 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00yeah it's got something to do with what
0:03I do I don't use your name I just answer
0:12it okay and I keep looking at you and I
0:16don't look here you don't want me to
0:18look here you want me to look at you I
0:20don't use your name and I just answer
0:22answer whatever you talk about and so
0:26the narrator then on the film will do
0:29something in my and my answer will fit
0:32in sounds like a plan my background is
0:48almost a technical answer I would think
0:51about what I mean you know off the earth
0:55moving around I would think of birds
0:57I would think of airplanes that sort of
1:01thing I wouldn't connect it emotionally
1:03with myself at all that's almost to me
1:07with my engineering background I was a
1:10aeronautical engineering at the
1:12University of Texas which I took
1:14incidentally so that I could become a
1:16better pilot that was always my dream
1:19from the time I was small so flight then
1:22doesn't really connect emotionally to me
1:51I have wanted to be a pilot since I was
1:58a small boy ten or so I grew up in World
2:01War two so I saw him in the movies and I
2:04wanted to be a pilot but I didn't know
2:07whether the Air Force or army or
2:10whatever was or Navy but as I got a
2:13little bit older I began to hear that
2:16Navy pilots were better because they had
2:19to land on aircraft carriers that
2:21appealed to me and so I said I want to
2:25be a Navy pilot because I want to be the
2:28best pilot I could be I found out later
2:31that Navy pilots are good Air Force
2:35pilots are just as good Marine pilots
2:37are just as good some are better than
2:40others just like everything else every
2:42other profession but we get trained and
2:45land on carriers which is very difficult
2:48very difficult but you could take Air
2:50Force guys and do the same thing train
2:52them to do it they do it just as well as
2:54I did or better so it was more following
2:57a myth and I was glad I did because it I
3:03just the Navy is the Navy is a special
3:07place an armed service special Armed
3:10Service relative now to the Marines or
3:13the Air Force or the army in my opinion
3:20[Music]
3:24well I'd been dreaming about it for a
3:27long time and I went to the University
3:30of Texas on on an ROTC scholarship so we
3:35had summer cruises and so we got
3:37introduced to the Navy sort of that way
3:40over those four years that I was at the
3:43University of Texas so going away to the
3:46Navy wasn't all that strange you know I
3:49fit right in and I was going to flight
3:53training and so at flight training
3:55they're telling you what to do you have
3:59a regimen you have a syllabus I was in
4:02pre-flight school you know so it wasn't
4:04that much different than what I've been
4:06doing before so I gradually transitioned
4:09me in to Navy life one of the nice
4:14things about the military particularly
4:17the Navy which I know most about is they
4:19train you to do what they want you to do
4:23I've noticed in the outside world off
4:26and they'll hire somebody
4:27they'll want him to be a marketing
4:30manager but they don't give him any
4:32training as marketing manager of that
4:35company they say well we'd come in and
4:38learn that but the Navy when they want
4:40you to fly they train you to fly a Navy
4:43way I think that's a wonderful thing to
4:46do because that way when you're called
4:49on to do a job in the Navy they've told
4:52you how to do it and then you can go do
4:54it and learn to do it even better and
4:56that sort of thing but still then when
4:59you're promoted you go like I went to
5:01test pilot school they sent me to school
5:04for it nine months teaching me how to be
5:06a test pilot they didn't just say well
5:08this guy's a good pilot he'll figure it
5:10out they they guide you along it's
5:14wonderful
5:22[Music]
5:25well it's it's the teamwork in
5:29camaraderie in the Navy is different
5:32from any place I experienced before I
5:36can remember going to the squadron there
5:40and being surrounded by people that
5:43wanted to fly airplanes I was never in
5:46that situation ever before
5:49certainly in high school in college
5:50people were going to do all these other
5:53things and kind of looked at you strange
5:55if you wanted to be a military pilot you
5:58know what would you want to go do that
6:00for you know that's dangerous why would
6:04you do that but I always wanted to and
6:06so here's all these other guys in the
6:08squadron they want to do it too we're
6:11all trying to do it and we're not
6:13competing except in performance to
6:17whether we could bomb better than the
6:19other guy or shoot bullets better you
6:22know all these skills land on the
6:25carrier better you all are doing that
6:27but together you're not trying to over
6:31you know get that guy's job over there
6:33because in the Navy you don't do that I
6:36came in as a ensign I was the lowest
6:38rank in the squadron that's good I
6:41didn't feel different
6:44lieutenant jgies work trying to take
6:46over the skipper's job and in companies
6:49outside the military there's a lot of
6:52competition to bring down the guy head
6:55of you so that you can take his place in
6:57it same way on it doesn't make you
7:01exactly have good camaraderie it makes
7:04you play like you've got good
7:06camaraderie but really if you're
7:08ambitious you don't have any of it
7:10so it's different and I like that
7:13environment much better I don't like to
7:17try to find a way to climb over anybody
7:20I want to work with people as a team
7:24member and try to be as great as I can
7:27be and try to help them be as
7:30they can be that's the way I like to
7:32live my life well I can remember
7:59graduating from flight training getting
8:02my goal wings and my mother pin Amon and
8:05I wanted to be a fighter pilot in the
8:09best fastest airplane the Navy had which
8:12was FAU Crusader okay I'd look at it
8:16I wanted landed a feel near me or
8:19something that boy that's the plane I
8:21want to fly and then when I got assigned
8:23I was assigned in training as an attack
8:27jet we'll stop and let that go by and
8:30I'll pick up back okay
8:39let me back up and think I work what I
8:41was saying when I graduated from flight
8:46training got my gold wings and my mother
8:48pinned on it was a very happy day I can
8:53remember thinking you know hope they
8:56assigned me to f8u squadron Fighter
9:00Squadron because that is the fastest
9:03best airplane in the Navy well it didn't
9:06happen that way they assigned me to a
9:08jet attack squadron flying f9f eight
9:12Cougars well that's a nice airplane but
9:15it was you know one of the older
9:18airplanes and so I was just glad to go
9:21but I was a little disappointed and so I
9:24went to the squadron and I learned to
9:25fly f9f H I learned the attack mission
9:29what I discovered is I went along and
9:33definitely think that now is that was
9:37the right place for me to go because
9:40that airplane was very forgiving
9:42and when you're a young pilot you make
9:44mistakes when you're an old pilot you
9:47make mistakes all humans make mistakes
9:49so really when you're young and make
9:51more of them you in my opinion now
9:55that's you want to be in the safest
9:58airplane around that will do the mission
10:00so that you can make these mistakes and
10:03survive and I can remember one time we
10:08were down at Guantanamo Bay Cuba doing
10:11los bombing it started bombing nuclear
10:14bomb where you carry a nuclear bomb and
10:15you pull up like this then it releases
10:18and it goes up high that allows you to
10:20get away and when you use little
10:22practice bombs and I can remember making
10:25a run one day and I pulled up like that
10:29and it was late in the day we've been
10:31doing this for maybe three or four weeks
10:34straight because we'd go down there for
10:35this intensive training I was based in
10:38Jacksonville would fly down there for
10:40Dennis the training and I don't know why
10:43but I just pulled too tight I don't real
10:45tight and I stall the airplane and it
10:49flipped on me went out of control
10:52because I had done this because I was
10:55just fatigued and wasn't paying
10:56attention and I flipped out of control
11:01and went in a cloud just as I did and I
11:06really didn't know exactly what to do
11:09and that airplane came out of it on its
11:12own because that airplane would do that
11:16Crusader wouldn't do that I'd be dead
11:19now
11:19from that mistake and that's just one of
11:23the mistakes that I made when I was
11:24young and I remember thinking you know
11:29I'm glad I'm in this f9f eight it maybe
11:33won't go as fast as a crusader or some
11:35others but it saved my life right there
11:38another thing that happened that I've
11:40noticed throughout my career whether
11:42always flying
11:449/8 or something else if some
11:46opportunity unscheduled came up where I
11:50was supposed to do something that I
11:53wasn't planning to do like they call and
11:55want you to make a low pass or they want
11:58you to do something that you hadn't
12:00practiced or thought about I can
12:03remember getting into trouble several
12:06different times like that and thinking
12:09wow I'm lucky that I didn't get killed
12:13because that I didn't do that right I
12:16tell you after a couple of those
12:18experiences where luck saved me you got
12:21to have a lot of luck in airplanes luck
12:24saved me then when somebody would come
12:26up with something unusual or I'd be in a
12:29place where maybe I wanted to show off
12:31to my mom and dad because I brought the
12:33airplane home abandoned I said Lauren
12:36would go off in my head and I'd say
12:38don't do this this is exactly how people
12:42get killed and that's how I read about
12:46it all the time I think that guy wasn't
12:48as lucky as me I did that dumb thing he
12:51did I'll pick up again and say
13:00frequently I read about in the paper
13:03when someone and the military gets
13:06killed and it's not infrequently that I
13:09can recognize they're andis we're doing
13:12something where they're playing that
13:13they really hadn't planned to do
13:15they were making a trip that they hadn't
13:19really planned or they were showing off
13:21or just something that wasn't the
13:26technical thing they should be doing and
13:29they weren't as lucky as I was because I
13:32was lucky I did later on i it set off an
13:35alarm I didn't do it anymore but these
13:39are things you learn as a pilot that
13:41that are important if you want to
13:44survive you gotta have luck because a
13:47lot of good pilots better policin I am
13:50didn't survive as long as I have because
13:53they didn't get as lucky so I hope good
13:57luck for anybody happens to watch this
14:00this video or this movie is this going
14:04to be a video I can't I've seen it
14:35improve so much over the years that I've
14:40been involved in aviation the airplanes
14:42are more reliable what they can do on
14:46their own is amazing what they can
14:51information they can present to the
14:53pilot through glass cockpits and
14:56heads-up displays are so much better and
15:00should make the Navy pilot a better
15:07weapon system and also a safer weapon
15:10system I don't know statistics in the
15:13Navy anymore so I don't know if that's
15:15true
15:16but I'm very envious about these guys
15:19flying these f-18s FAA teams off
15:23carriers over in the Arabian Gulf or
15:25wherever they
15:26maybe I've thought many many times about
15:31if I had all this to do over again if
15:34her father was a young man again what
15:36would I do
15:37and I I believe that if I were a young
15:39man that I would join the Navy go to
15:44flight training go try to be an f-18
15:48pilot go over there and serve and do
15:52those amazing missions they do now much
15:54more than we could do earlier on because
15:57the airplanes didn't have the capability
15:59that they do now so I think it's a more
16:02demanding job but still it's got to have
16:06the same good feelings when when people
16:08do it well I think one of them that was
16:27turned out to be very important only I
16:30didn't realize it at the time in fact
16:32while I was in the Navy it seemed a
16:34little frustrating in the Navy
16:36you're a naval officer first in a pilot
16:39second so when you go to a squadron here
16:42maybe the maintenance officer and you're
16:45expected to be a pilot too and the Air
16:48Force is not quite like that when you go
16:51to a squadron you're the pilot and they
16:54have another guy over here this
16:56maintenance officer which is good and
16:58I'd say you envy that when you're a
17:01young pilot but I think having it the
17:04other way around somehow makes your
17:08point of view about military service a
17:11little bit different than some of these
17:13other services and in NASA
17:16in the Apollo program most of the
17:20commanders were naval officers even
17:22though our boss deke Slayton was an Air
17:25Force officer and he tried to pick the
17:29best people to do the job and so what I
17:33read into that was he believes these
17:37naval officers if you just mix them all
17:39up somehow they'll make better
17:42commanders in Apollo and I think that's
17:47how he felt and so I think that maybe
17:52maybe the Navy way is a better way I
17:56don't know because I believe me I I've
17:58met Air Force pilots and Marine pilots
18:00and harmony policies just as good as I
18:03am or better so it's not like the Navy
18:07is gonna make you better but this
18:08attitude about being a naval officer and
18:11also a pilot I think it has a an effect
18:15on maturing you and making you see your
18:18job differently
18:33well there's one big difference that I
18:35didn't catch on too quick
18:38I thought of NASA all astronauts is sort
18:42of like being in a squadron we were all
18:45there together being a being as good as
18:49we can be but that isn't true and
18:52they're there everybody was trying to be
18:55as good as they could be but the smart
18:57ones were able to say well this is a
18:59competition too so I better find a way
19:03to be good and also make sure my boss
19:07big Slayton and Al Shepard know it
19:10because if they don't know it then
19:12they're not going to pick me and I want
19:14them to pick me instead of those other
19:16guys over there and so that was a big
19:20difference
19:21I consider that
19:22it's difference when I got to NASA first
19:26of all I didn't catch on for several
19:28years that this was going on and and
19:32then when I did catch on to it I didn't
19:36like it that didn't lie I don't like to
19:37live my life that way and so I had to
19:41for a while in order to compete but when
19:45I finished my NASA career I became an
19:48artist you don't you put out a painting
19:49if people like them they buy them if
19:52they don't like them they don't and I'm
19:55not competing with other artists or
19:57anything else I'm doing the best I can
19:59do so that's my personality I had to
20:03adjust it well you don't get to know
20:36each other so well when one is the
20:40instructor in a classroom with 25
20:42students and then when you get on a crew
20:46there's only three of you so you get to
20:49know each other really well
20:51but one of the things that occurred at
20:54NASA that I observed was that people
21:00picked people to fly with them that they
21:03knew are they knew of so Air Force guys
21:07tended to know other Air Force people
21:11and so when they would form a
21:14flight crew Air Force pilot Jim McDivitt
21:18let's think about all nine Jim McDivitt
21:20he thinks wow and then he says you know
21:24I know Dave Scott he he was a really
21:29great pilot and
21:30I'll ask him to come along rusty
21:33Schweickart was a civilian but he had
21:35been in the Air Force so they kind of
21:37know and so one of the things that was
21:40very lucky for me his Pete Conrad when
21:43he forms a crew then he picks dick
21:46Gordon who he was a squadron mate with
21:49and then he picks a guy named CC
21:51Williams who's a Marine that he knew and
21:54CC he gets killed and so then he picks
21:57me and the three of us go off together
22:02so it's not that you don't like the Air
22:06Force guys or think there is good
22:08you just don't know them as well and
22:10also like a I don't need dad that I'll
22:15say it now but the culture is different
22:17and so I think it's a good thing it's a
22:20good thing you can do it the other way
22:23but I think the other seems to work
22:28better and Gene Cernan flew with Tom
22:34Stafford in Germany Tom Stafford was a
22:37graduate of the area of the Naval
22:39Academy and then when he flew on 17
22:47[Music]
22:51anyway I've said enough on that subject
22:55so it listen you can't do it the other
22:59way it seems more like it
23:01it's more comfortable and you know those
23:03guys better you've known them PETA knew
23:06me for ten years or five years before I
23:09ever showed up amen
23:10we were dog doing different things but
23:12he still knew me where he didn't know
23:14maybe they've Scott so well yes I think
23:37the NASA the way you try to train
23:42somebody is the Navy way and Air Force
23:45and others you try to anticipate what
23:49skills they're going to need and so you
23:51teach them those skills and simulators
23:54or something and then you try to
23:56anticipate the unusual environment
23:59they'll be in using those skills and
24:02then they try it and you try to simulate
24:04that too and that's what we did and so
24:07the same way the Navy treats you teaches
24:11you to be a airplane pilot
24:12then NASA treats teaches you to be a
24:15spaceship pilot and then the same way I
24:20guess the Marines teach a fellow to get
24:23onto the ground and and be a good
24:26infantryman or tank command or something
24:29then they teach you that part of it
24:31it's geology and you don't have a tank
24:33or a rifle but the same things apply so
24:37the training is is just the same and the
24:40principles are just the same and so it
24:44it's I feel blessed all the time I have
24:47expense the military spent so much time
24:50and
24:51has been so much time teaching me things
24:53and so that I could do my job better
24:56it's been wonderful it's every human
25:00every human male and female if they were
25:03looked smart would join the military
25:06even if they didn't want to be in the
25:09military for more than two or three
25:11years and it would start them on their
25:14path to professionalism in a way that
25:18would mean a lot now other people can
25:20overcome it but this way everybody would
25:23have a better head start I thank my
25:27lucky stars all the time that I
25:31accidentally was fortunate enough to
25:33start in the Navy and have the Navy
25:36teach me these things they expect you to
25:40be on time they expect you to tell the
25:43truth they don't expect you to sell this
25:46product as some guy that doesn't mean it
25:48they expect you to tell the truth they
25:51expect you to be reliable they expect
25:54you to get along with other people that
25:57maybe you like or don't like for the
25:59good of the military the military
26:02teaches you to be a patriot and an
26:06American a lot of people think they're
26:09Americans and they're not most of the
26:13congressmen and Senators up there you
26:16don't need to put this in there they
26:18need to rip that American flag off their
26:21lapel and put their own damn picture on
26:24there or a picture of a donkey
26:26or an elephant because they're not
26:30patriots to this country they are
26:33self-serving guys in the Navy teaches
26:36you how not to be now you may turn out
26:39to be very self-serving later but you've
26:41got some people that show you the way to
26:44be a good Patriot and a good American I
26:47think the number one patriots of this
26:49country are the guys over there fighting
26:51in Iraq and those other places so I know
26:54a lot of people just think they're crazy
26:56to be over there but they're serving
26:59their country their pay tribe they are
27:01Americans just like you two guys okay I
27:22don't I don't know the answer to that
27:28don't forget NASA is a paramedic
27:32paramilitary organization so even though
27:35it isn't quite as structured and you
27:37don't wear uniforms
27:40it runs sort of that way and so how to
27:45relate to senior officers junior
27:47officers it's not as rigid as the
27:51military I think that's better I think
27:55it's better when you have a structure
28:00that is flexible and and everybody in
28:05the system is flexible they know who the
28:08final authority is but the give-and-take
28:10is not so regimented where people can
28:16argue with I could argue with Pete and
28:19say anything I wanted to him and it
28:22didn't have anything to do with the
28:25struct command structure because he knew
28:27if he said to me I've heard it out I
28:30want you to go do it anyway I'd go do it
28:32anyway
28:33you know I mean but I could holler at
28:35him as I left this is a dumb idea but
28:37I'm going to go do it but I think that's
28:40better than some rigid military policies
28:44because everybody has good ideas and two
28:49heads are better than one three heads
28:51are better than two or one and that way
28:55you get the best from every single
28:58person you can't always get that in in
29:01the military because people down at the
29:04bottom are afraid to go up and
29:09do it one other thing that I think is
29:12different about military leadership
29:14that's important and I believe maybe
29:19it's changed needs to be changed in the
29:21military leadership books and the thing
29:24you talk about the leadership comes from
29:26there down to here I believe that that's
29:31good but it needs a lot of feedback and
29:33not only that an individual if you read
29:36leadership books that I read in those
29:38days they taught you how to lead the
29:46people below you I think an equally
29:49important thing they don't talk about in
29:51the military is you need to learn to
29:53lead the people above you because they
29:56need leadership to by people that are
29:58down here and the trenches or know this
30:01part of the job better than they do but
30:03they don't teach you how to do that I
30:06had to learn that at NASA I had to learn
30:08how to tell my bosses you know that's a
30:13good idea but here's here's the way I
30:16see it from here it looks like maybe
30:21it's not as good so and be able to do it
30:24in a way that doesn't offend them and
30:26maybe they would say you know I think
30:29I'm going to change because like I say
30:32people below me have given me a lot of
30:35good ideas I flew as commander of a
30:37Skylab mission and how it was a great
30:44mission but it wouldn't have been near
30:46as great without the fellows that were
30:49below me keeping me straight in saying
30:53Ally I don't think that's a good idea
30:54and maybe if we did this or I think if
30:59we don't want to do that we want to do
31:01this I always listened to him and did I
31:05didn't have my ego invested in a way
31:07where I said well I'm the commander
31:09we're gonna do it the way I said it
31:10first it was always for me well that's a
31:13better idea then I don't know let's do
31:16that let's try it anyway and see if it
31:18works
31:18so you don't learn that and I don't know
31:21if they teach it now but learning to
31:23lead upward is very important and do
31:27they teach you that now good see
31:29something they didn't do in my day every
31:32leadership book I read and I probably
31:33read I'm on the Navy that they had I
31:35don't remember ever reading that but you
31:40know I wasn't tuned to it maybe

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