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Interview with a Mob Hitman (Sir Trevor McDonald Documentary) — Transcript

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0:02it is
0:03such a brilliant such a brilliant film
0:06but it is an
0:06act of desperation he didn't want to
0:09expose himself in that way
0:11he didn't want to make a movie in his
0:13own home but he does not want to
0:17let the iranian government win they're
0:20not going to control his life
0:22they're not going to limit his
0:23imagination and i think
0:25for me it's a template right
0:32[Music]
0:38in new york city today they are still
0:40trying to figure out who wanted joe
0:42colombo
0:43dead carmine galente was rubbed out
0:46today as he sat in a brooklyn
0:47three other men in trench coats and
0:49fedora hats surrounded the car
0:51and in close range
0:55you compared someone to
1:00swatting the fly simple because if i
1:03didn't i couldn't tell
1:05for three months i traveled across
1:08america
1:08to try to understand what life is like
1:11in the mafia
1:13the men i met were major figures some of
1:16whom
1:16have never spoken before are you saying
1:19there were times when your son came with
1:21you he was there on occasion until yet
1:24i left him in the car i went out and i
1:26shot a guy and i walked back in the car
1:28he heard the gunshots
1:29and i used to joke with him you went on
1:31your first hit at seven years old
1:32do they come off to you no nobody has
1:36maybe after they hear this they might
1:40it's a life they may leave but can never
1:42entirely escape
1:44nor can their families avoid the
1:46consequences
1:49the first rule of the mafia is loyalty
1:52break it and you pay the price
1:56nothing could justify killing somebody
1:59in that way as your brother was killed
2:02trevor
2:04this is the life this is the life we
2:06chose this is the life
2:08he chose the path
2:12your life is not your own you're
2:14probably of this entity
2:16this causes an australia that goes back
2:18hundreds of years
2:32my introduction to the mobs to life was
2:35unusual
2:37this is queens in new york and it turns
2:40out to be a typical
2:41mafia neighborhood the man taking me
2:45around
2:45grew up here and became a killer
2:49his job was to do the mafia's dirty work
2:52on the streets
2:55meet john elite he's still known in
2:58these parts
2:59as the sheriff how dangerous an area was
3:02this john
3:03well back growing up this area is called
3:05woodhaven that's the name of the section
3:07we nicknamed the death haven death haven
3:10yeah
3:10there was concert murders he had
3:13constant
3:14rivalries between different guys in the
3:16street different mob families
3:18so we would kill almost at will as
3:21somebody given a beating
3:22my friend angela was shot here three or
3:25four times on the corner
3:26uh shot the head back several times
3:30the bar owners on this corner uh there
3:32was a double homicide there
3:33those are just a couple i mean there's
3:35probably a dozen bodies just on this
3:36two blocks here how many of these
3:38incidents were you involved in john
3:41uh directly quite a few indirectly
3:45always but somehow i'm tied into
3:47everything that goes on around here
3:49this was my neighborhood i kind of
3:50forced it i have to grow up here and as
3:53i aged i i took over this area
3:56hey what's up
4:05yeah i've known him a long time since uh
4:07six years old very else what do you do
4:08for a living these days i'm an attorney
4:10so i've seen in
4:11out of his various housing arrangements
4:14you know housing arrangements yeah you
4:16know
4:17sometimes some friends oh yeah a long
4:19time sure
4:20um he was uh sometimes locked up
4:2423 hours a day and his parents had
4:26called me up
4:27as his attorney i could get him out and
4:29so you tried to help john by getting him
4:31out of prison
4:32i did i don't think it worked but
4:35looking at this area today it's still
4:36difficult to believe all these things
4:39that went on
4:39this neighborhood was chock full of
4:41trouble it was tough to stay out of
4:43trouble here
4:45he looked for it he looked we went the
4:48other way you know
4:49he went one way looking for trouble he
4:51went the other way
4:53yeah i didn't have the head for that he
4:55was he was just different
4:57he was like i said fearless but it's
4:59good to talk to you
5:00pleasure travis nice to meet you nice to
5:01meet you i see you guys it's good seeing
5:03you
5:04guys good luck to you
5:09john what do you think it was that made
5:11tim go one way in life and
5:12your life took a turn the other way i
5:15think it was a combination of things his
5:17dad was an attorney
5:18successful he went to church he went to
5:20private school
5:21the exposure he had to the street was
5:24limited
5:25mine was uh every angle of my life was
5:29around street guys and wildlife i was
5:31exposed to fast money and
5:33anybody around my life was in that
5:35business and and i took to it
5:37and i i didn't have a problem with
5:38getting hurt and being aggressive i was
5:40used to it as a kid
5:41[Music]
5:46the mafia was built on fear and
5:49intimidation
5:51for a man like john rising up through
5:53the ranks would depend on his
5:55willingness to carry out orders
5:57however brutal
6:01elite worked for john gotti in the 1980s
6:04and 1990s
6:06gotti was the godfather of the gambino
6:08crime family
6:09the most powerful and feared mobsters in
6:12america
6:14when the order was given to kill local
6:16criminal georgie grosso
6:18john was given the job it would be
6:22his first hit
6:25georgia grass was a drug dealer and he
6:28was shooting his mouth off
6:30and he was marked to be hit so
6:33he had to go once that order was down
6:35and
6:37i set him up to be killed and i lured
6:39them
6:40lured him in the car with the rest of
6:41the guys and
6:43i drove up near shea stadium which is
6:46now citi field
6:47and shot him in the head two times so
6:50you
6:51put a gun to the back of his head
6:54and shot him yeah it was my hit
6:58and i was gonna do the work i don't like
7:00to use the word pride
7:02but at the time that's what i was
7:03thinking i'm gonna take pride in what i
7:05do and i'm gonna do it good
7:06what happened to the body what did you
7:08do with the body
7:09uh just picked it up i told the guys
7:12move it and
7:13throw it on the side of the road like
7:14garbage
7:18we wanted the public and more so street
7:21guys and his brother-in-law to
7:23understand
7:23you do something you're not told and you
7:26disobey our laws and our rules
7:28uh there is no negotiating you're going
7:30to be killed
7:31and we want everybody to know as an
7:32example that you're going to get killed
7:34and we also want them to know who's
7:36killing them
7:41that's how the godfathers maintained
7:43their control
7:44they rely on men like john elite to kill
7:47on command but in recent times the story
7:52of the mafia
7:53is one of loyalty turning into betrayal
7:56to avoid long
7:57prison sentences gangsters testify
8:00against their bosses
8:04john gotti said to be the new godfather
8:07well now his most trusted lieutenant has
8:09agreed never it would be
8:10not since al capone has anybody stirred
8:13up the public appetite
8:14for a larger than lifelong reputed boss
8:16of the nation's largest mafia family was
8:18arrested tonight in a move by the fbi
8:26the 1980s john elites boss john gotti
8:29had appeared
8:30invincible but when one of his most
8:32loyal lieutenants broke the mafia's code
8:35of silence
8:36gotti's empire fell apart nothing had
8:39stuck
8:40to the teflon dawn until today
8:43the teflon is gone the dawn is covered
8:45with velcro
8:46and every charge in the indictment stuck
8:49informers have been the fbi's most
8:51valuable weapon in the battle against
8:53the mob
8:57i was about to meet the man in this
8:59picture
9:00single-handedly he has inflicted more
9:03damage on the mafia
9:04than anyone else in recent times
9:09a former high-ranking member of the
9:11gambino crime family
9:12his name is michael de leonardo
9:15also known as mikey scars
9:21after months of persuasion mikey scars
9:24agreed to meet us
9:25in miami
9:29scars lives in permanent fear of attack
9:32and has until recently been in the
9:34government's witness protection program
9:38he never told us where he lives all he
9:41would say
9:42was that he was flying in from out of
9:44state and would meet us
9:46in this hotel
9:53[Music]
10:06this is the first time he's spoken in
10:08public
10:12[Music]
10:15how safe do you feel in your daily life
10:18now
10:19uh it's it's a it's an ongoing process
10:22uh you never really feel safe
10:24uh you take each day as it comes along
10:26and you don't dwell on
10:28your situation your past or your uh
10:30you're in
10:31danger zones that you could be in and
10:33would be in what's your
10:34worst fear what will they do to you that
10:36would be death
10:38death for myself but my family paramount
10:40of course i have a child
10:41and a and a wife here now and uh
10:44some of these people they may not take
10:46into consideration who's sitting in the
10:48car with me or
10:49walking in the street with me or in my
10:50house if they kick my door and kill
10:52everybody in the house
10:53that's my biggest fear biggest concern
10:56and what keeps me up at night
10:57is it difficult to live with oh i don't
10:59sleep i sleep an hour two hours
11:02three four hours tops when i'm up every
11:04night for the last uh 12 years
11:07i don't get a good night's sleep ever my
11:09conscience bothers me
11:10what does your conscience bother you
11:12about
11:14uh the damage that i've done to some
11:15people that i loved in the street
11:17are friends that i like very much and
11:19just my legacy my what i was
11:22uh born into and raised into and every
11:24fiber of my body that i
11:26that i gave up you were captain of the
11:28gambino family one of the biggest
11:30uh criminal organizations in the country
11:32and you decided to
11:35testify against people you work with
11:37people you knew
11:38people i loved people you loved right i
11:41after
11:42certain things i was arrested in june
11:4320th of 2002
11:46and i was held without bail i had many
11:49things going on the street i was in
11:50charge of the construction for the
11:52family
11:52i had the stock business we were making
11:54a lot of money for the family and myself
11:56when i didn't receive bail all my money
11:59stopped
12:00every penny that i was earning in the
12:02street whether it be family related
12:04can be no family related or my own
12:06personal money that i was earning
12:07and that would send messages back and
12:09forth say what that was going on there
12:10where's the money
12:11i got families i got support out here i
12:13got to pay for lawyers where are we
12:14going here
12:15and that would it it became uh tell him
12:18uh
12:19tell him tell his wife to go on welfare
12:21my wife go on welfare
12:23these guys kidding me i sent a message
12:25back out he says
12:26listen i don't remember dying and i
12:29don't remember getting life
12:30i may come home one day i steal a dead
12:34sentence myself i threatened them
12:37so i knew but i knew what i was doing i
12:39did not care at that point
12:40i'm facing life in jail for a murder
12:42that i was arrested for that i did for
12:44the family
12:45i didn't do it for me do you think you
12:47were
12:48lucky to still be alive oh absolutely
12:52uh it's not it's not if it's when i know
12:55that's tongue-in-cheek a lot of people
12:57say those things
12:58that if when but that's the truth i've
13:00told my wife
13:01madeline i said marilyn if i get killed
13:04don't get mad at anybody what are you
13:07talking about don't talk like that
13:08no no i accept this is my life you're
13:11out of it no i'm never out of it
13:14i'm still part of that life it's their
13:16job to find me
13:18and kill me don't get mad move on
13:22and you tell my son that when he's able
13:24to lower it don't get mad at anybody
13:26i chose this i know i know the
13:28consequences
13:30and that's it
13:40these are pictures of mikey scars
13:42forebears
13:44his family have been part of the mafia
13:46since its creation in sicily
13:51when we next meet in new york i discover
13:54how betraying his past
13:56puts his life in jeopardy to this day
14:00right there i can't look that way he'll
14:01look right at me i'm saying that
14:03right here two guys from the casey
14:06[Music]
14:14family
14:16how many deaths murders do you suppose
14:19you are directly responsible for
14:22up to now i respectfully decline to
14:25answer
14:26on the ground that my aunts may tend to
14:28incriminate me
14:29how long have you been in the united
14:30states i declined
14:33to answer where did you go to school
14:36i respectfully declined to answer
14:39because i honestly believe
14:41my answer might tend to incriminate me
14:45from its inception the mafia had to be
14:48a secret organization
14:52it survived and thrived by its code of
14:54silence
14:56that was key to protecting its structure
14:59and its members
15:00from the law
15:02[Music]
15:04all that changed one day in 1963
15:08when a mobster determined to save his
15:10own skin
15:12gave the whole game away
15:15who was the boss of the family that you
15:18belong to in casa nostra
15:20vito geneves veto genovese
15:24he picks your finger who
15:28the godfather he picks your thing he
15:30picks your finger
15:33joe valachi described the mafia's
15:35induction ceremony
15:37revealed that there were five ruling
15:38families in new york
15:40and that the organization was known to
15:42its members
15:44as causa nostra
15:51more recently the damage done to the
15:53mafia by mikey scars
15:54is almost as great on his evidence alone
15:5980 of them were sent to prison
16:02his deal with the fbi saved him from a
16:04life behind bars
16:06but he knows the mob will never forgive
16:09him
16:10how often do you come back to new york
16:11these days not very often
16:14i try to uh avoid as much as much as
16:17possible
16:19and why is that uh it'd be like thumbing
16:23my uh
16:24putting a stick in the eye of the people
16:26that i've i've hurt
16:27and um that are out to uh
16:30you know kill me they're responsible to
16:32kill me if they could catch me
16:33in the right spot at the right time do
16:35they never forget
16:38kosa nostra is one long memory
16:41uh they don't forget kosonosha does not
16:43forget
16:48we were venturing into a part of the
16:50city mikey scar's new well
16:53he wanted to introduce me to an area
16:55which holds many memories for him
16:57[Music]
17:00what i didn't anticipate was that we
17:03were about to have a close encounter
17:05with some of his friends from the mob
17:07[Music]
17:09we're in the heart of little italy now
17:11is this safe here now
17:13well there's a high risk area um
17:16even though the social clubs and the
17:17presence
17:19is not like it was years ago decades ago
17:22there's still a strong
17:25presence you could run into somebody or
17:27i could run into somebody in this area
17:29if i was silly enough to walk down these
17:32blocks
17:33i probably would have a problem
17:35[Music]
17:37and we're going along a block that i was
17:41inducted december 24 1988
17:46in this building right here oh yes this
17:48one right here mulberry street
17:51it was a very proud day in my life
17:54i achieved the goal that i wanted to
17:56achieve was being an inductive member of
17:59in austria in the gambino family it
18:01seems amazing to think that even after
18:03all this time
18:04over there with the blue shirt kissing
18:06the girls over there right right there
18:08i can't look that way you'll look right
18:09at me suddenly
18:11out in the open among the tourists scars
18:14recognizes two mafia members
18:16sitting at the table yeah yeah that
18:20is two guys from the casey family
18:24you recognize them you recognize them
18:26after all this time oh yeah yeah i know
18:28i know that kid since his uh baby
18:31his father was murdered by the gambino
18:34family
18:35he was uh with john gotti on a uh
18:39a murder that went wrong and later on
18:43this fellow's father was murdered
18:46for screwing up on the hit he's a nice
18:49kid
18:50i like him nice kid nice man he did a
18:53big bid
18:54in jail and as you see he's back to uh
18:57daily business
18:58that's what we do well what precisely
19:02would be
19:02his reaction if he were to see you
19:04driving around now well he's with
19:06another member of organized crime
19:08they're gonna
19:08they would react they would react in a
19:10way an aggressive manner
19:12if he was alone maybe a little different
19:13he would be he would act
19:15maybe he may make believe he didn't even
19:17see me
19:19you know but since he's with another
19:21member they put each other on the spot
19:23that white is doing anything how they're
19:25gonna go back says
19:26we've seen uh mikey scotts driving
19:28around mulberry street and what'd you
19:30guys do
19:31nothing they would tarnish their
19:34reputation a little bit they didn't try
19:36anything
19:41[Music]
19:50[Music]
20:01[Music]
20:03the mob goes where the money is and new
20:06york offers the chance to make more
20:08money
20:09than anywhere else in america
20:11[Music]
20:16from garbage gambling in the garment
20:19industry
20:20to food finance and the construction
20:22business
20:23the mafia turns street thugs into
20:26millionaires
20:29they say the gambino family has 400
20:32initiated men 4 000 associates and an
20:35estimated worth
20:37of 500 million federal agents began a
20:39roundup of some of the alleged mafia
20:41bosses and musclemen
20:43said to be behind the mob's theft of
20:46hundreds of millions of dollars in
20:47gasoline i had access to so much cash on
20:49a regular basis that you lose
20:51perspective of what money is and cash is
20:55it's like you're almost printing it
20:57[Music]
21:01john elite amassed considerable wealth
21:03from his life as an enforcer
21:05before the fbi caught up with him
21:09he was once the owner of 10 homes
21:11including this estate
21:13where he lived with his family for 20
21:15years
21:17it's more than an hour's drive from new
21:19york but the brutality of those streets
21:22was never far away this must have been
21:25an amazing
21:27estate for you to own at such an early
21:29age age in your 20s
21:31yeah i felt like i was successful and uh
21:34we loved it i mean this this is like a a
21:36big playground for my family
21:38i mean this was incredible for me yeah i
21:40felt uh
21:41i was elated beyond elated i would say
21:43really i really enjoyed it here my kids
21:45enjoyed it my whole family enjoyed it it
21:46was great
21:47it must have been tough to give up all
21:49this when you had to say goodbye to it
21:51all
21:52yeah i was really sad i mean when i knew
21:55i was going to
21:56lose this and it was going to be over i
21:58was
21:59more sad for my kids and family than i
22:01was for myself but
22:02you know because i have the guilt of uh
22:05taking this away from everybody
22:06after giving it to everybody and my you
22:09know obviously my happiness would be
22:11my kids being happy here did you think
22:13that life would go on forever
22:15yeah i always thought i'd be in a state
22:16like this i never thought things would
22:17change
22:18uh if anything i thought things would
22:20get a lot better yeah
22:22and when you come back now what are your
22:24reflections on seeing
22:27this and remembering what went on in the
22:28past you know
22:31it's some sadness because you know i
22:32look at that door and i'm waiting for my
22:34grandmother to come out of that house
22:35again
22:36she would walk out of there with a big
22:37smile on her face and i was very close
22:40to it
22:40so you know those memories you they're
22:43embedded in your mind
22:44you know in my mind they were great you
22:46know happy times
22:48elite's rise in the mafia was
22:50spectacular
22:52his business assets included nightclubs
22:54in florida
22:55new york and new jersey and he was for a
22:58time
22:58a major drug dealer with connections
23:01around the world
23:02and this is the living room area yeah
23:04it's just the living room facing
23:06and uh and what's this this room this is
23:10where
23:10uh i kept all the guns
23:13in this back corner if you go straight
23:16back to the left
23:17i had everything hidden back there when
23:19you say all the guns how many are we
23:20talking about
23:21uh usually at a time about eight uh
23:24machine guns two
23:25semi-automatics nine millimeters a
23:27couple handguns 41
23:28uh revolver at 38 and then i would have
23:32some
23:32smaller handguns inside usually deranges
23:36that's a huge stack of ammunition yeah
23:39yeah
23:40all kinds of ammunition here weapons and
23:42this is my
23:43uh main bedroom at the time uh
23:46it was a sunken jacuzzi tub here and
23:50this was the main bedroom and i would
23:51overlook the lake you had quite a stack
23:53of weapons
23:54in this house john did you ever have to
23:55use them i used them
23:58on two occasions what were those
24:02one was construction worker that uh i
24:05was mad at that that i thought he
24:06wronged me with some money i ended up
24:08going to prison for that
24:09and another was uh what did you shoot
24:11him you shot him uh
24:13pistol whipped him with it uh beat him
24:15up and stripped them down threw him in
24:16the lake and
24:17so you took all his clothes off you mean
24:19yeah
24:20i uh ripped his clothes off
24:23broke his uh eye sock and knocked some
24:25teeth out broke his hand
24:27i believe and then on a second occasion
24:30i used it
24:31when my wife gave me a phone call the
24:32times my ex-wife that
24:35several guys were waiting up up on the
24:37top of the road for me
24:38and i shot home and shot it out with
24:41them up at the top of the road
24:43and i believe severely wounded three of
24:46them
24:47so there was a big shootout
24:50yeah on this property yeah and were you
24:53the only shooter on your side
24:55on my side i was the only shooter did
24:56you have any evidence that
24:58the others that your attackers were
25:00wounded
25:02well for sure i had one down and uh
25:05i uh i killed them i shot them i had
25:08them on the floor and i
25:10finished them
25:14[Music]
25:21that life of guns and shootouts ended
25:24when john agreed to testify
25:26against other senior mafia figures
25:30he was given a reduced sentence of 10
25:32years
25:33and was let out in 2012
25:45[Music]
25:48by sicilian tradition the mafia was
25:51structured along family lines
25:53sons followed their fathers into the
25:56life
25:57[Music]
26:04michael franzisi was at the top of it
26:06all passing himself off as a movie
26:09producer
26:10was really a tough violent mafia boss
26:13implicated in mafia murders going back
26:15to the 1970s
26:18i was about to meet one of the most
26:20successful mobsters of all time
26:23he was born into a powerful mafia family
26:26and into a life he's found difficult to
26:28leave behind
26:30[Music]
26:33on location in miami with the movie cry
26:35of the city
26:36michael franzis posed as a hollywood
26:39movie producer
26:40to launder huge amounts of stolen money
26:44his brilliance at inventing
26:46sophisticated scams
26:48made the mafia more than a billion
26:50dollars
26:52frenzies conned everyone it seemed apart
26:55from the fbi franzisi became celebrities
26:59in miami
27:00a miami bishop gave them a special
27:01blessing from the vatican
27:03and to the establishment of federal
27:04agents the mayor of miami beach gave
27:07franzia the key to the city
27:10then during this television interview he
27:13was asked the question he hadn't
27:14expected
27:15it brought his criminal life to an end
27:18the fbi says you're a member of the
27:20colombo mafia family
27:22like i said the fbi can allege and say
27:24whatever they like they've been doing it
27:26for many many years
27:28but what can i say that's the fbi that's
27:30lawrence
27:32franzis was indicted on 65 counts of tax
27:36evasion
27:37racketeering and grand theft but
27:40he did a deal and served only seven
27:43years in prison
27:48trevor michael how are you thank you
27:50very much for having us thank you
27:52thank you come on in today
27:55michael franzis lives with his family in
27:57california
27:59he has denounced the mafia although his
28:02father
28:03remains an important figure in the
28:05colombo crime family
28:06in new york
28:13michael by your own admission you were
28:15one of the most successful members in
28:17the costa nostra
28:19is it possible to find fulfillment
28:22in the straight life you know for me it
28:23was extremely difficult because i always
28:26tell people
28:27you know when you have a change or a
28:28transformation in life you don't get a
28:30lobotomy
28:31you know deep inside i still am who i am
28:33and who i was
28:35and so at times i still struggle with it
28:37i honestly do it for years i struggled
28:39with it
28:39especially making the break because i
28:42did feel for the longest time that i was
28:43betraying
28:44my former life betraying my oath uh
28:47betraying my dad
28:48and at times i still have those feelings
28:50strangely enough i don't know why but
28:53so is a difficult transformation and
28:55sometimes it's even difficult to
28:57maintain
28:58this new persona who i you know who i am
29:00now but that suggests that
29:03mentally psychologically
29:06you can't leave it behind
29:09in many ways i think you're right i mean
29:11mentally it's still a part of me and
29:13psychologically it is and my dad is
29:15still alive so he's still
29:16very much a part of my thoughts so it's
29:20i believe you're right in that respect
29:22it's it's still so much a part of who i
29:24am
29:24is it ever possible to be a member of
29:26the mob and have a happy family life
29:30i don't believe so i you know the
29:34people gotta understand the mob is not a
29:35business it's a way of life
29:37it's a whole subculture from everything
29:39else that exists it affects our families
29:41our friends
29:42people we do business with it's part of
29:45who we are
29:46and i have never never seen any family
29:49of any member of that life that hasn't
29:51gone through tremendous challenges and
29:53struggles
29:54as a result of that family of that
29:56person's
29:57membership in that life it's just not
29:59normal it's not normal having
30:01law enforcement scrutiny around you all
30:03the time it's not
30:04normal having you know pressure from
30:06guys on the street around
30:08you all the time remember those are the
30:09same people you bring into your home
30:11you know we're pretty clannish in that
30:13regard you know we hang out with our own
30:15members so you're around those people
30:17all the time the women speak to the
30:19wives of those people all the time they
30:20share all the difficulties and the
30:22challenges so
30:23uh it's it's i've never seen a normal
30:26family life
30:27from any member of that life including
30:29my own
30:30my father mother brothers and sisters we
30:32lived anything but a normal life
30:34as much as my parents tried it was
30:36impossible
30:37so being part of the mob and having a
30:38happy family life is simply
30:40not on no they they're not conducive to
30:43one another um you know i i would tell
30:45mob guys
30:46if i stay single you know don't bring
30:48this into your home
30:49don't create a home uh with the mob life
30:52uh you know around it it's not good so
30:55it's just not conducive to good family
30:57[Music]
31:02life
31:09authorities say the power behind
31:11franzisi the movie business
31:12is michael franzisi's father john sunny
31:15friends easy
31:16one of the top mafia bosses in the
31:18country who was released from prison
31:20just last month
31:21and met at the prison gate by his son
31:23michael the elder friends easy and his
31:25mob associates were the men behind the
31:27distribution of a number of sex and
31:29violence films
31:30including deep throat and texas chainsaw
31:32massacre
31:37michael's father john sunny franzis has
31:39achieved something of a cult status
31:42in the history of the mob he'd been sent
31:45down
31:46for 50 years for bank robbery
31:49four years ago at the age of 93
31:52he was convicted again this time for
31:55racketeering
31:56after extorting money from a pizza
31:58restaurant and from a chain of strip
32:00clubs
32:01[Music]
32:03sunny frances is the oldest federal
32:05prisoner in the united states
32:07and must surely be the oldest living
32:10member
32:11of the mafia
32:19when cami met his son michael on the set
32:21of one of his movies
32:23she had no idea about the kind of family
32:26she was marrying into
32:28[Music]
32:31when you first dated michael could you
32:32describe the moment when you rarely
32:34discovered what
32:35his life was all about wow
32:39when i really discovered what his life
32:41really was all about
32:42we weren't dating anymore we were
32:44actually married so you know it was a
32:46few
32:46years later and i think i got a little
32:50i mean i knew there was something more
32:51to him
32:53because of all the attention he got and
32:55when we went to restaurants they would
32:56just
32:57take us right in and give us the best
32:58table and the best champagne so
33:00i mean you know he told me he was a
33:02businessman and he was a film producer
33:04and you know i just assumed that he was
33:05just very well liked and very popular
33:07um but just i think it started with his
33:11father when his father was ready to come
33:13home
33:14and i was in new york and i did read a
33:15few articles about you know sonny
33:17franzis
33:18the mob boss and his son michael frenzie
33:20so it started to
33:22but you know what what the mob
33:25was and what the mafia meant or whatever
33:28word that they used for it at the time
33:30didn't really mean a lot to me you know
33:32it really didn't like today
33:34you know my daughters heard that well
33:35yeah it would mean everything to them
33:37but for me
33:38i didn't really quite know what that
33:39meant and i didn't really ask
33:42i guess he just didn't want to know do
33:44you still worry about him today
33:47give him his former life and the risk
33:48that poses
33:50to his life today do you ever worry that
33:52he might he might be killed
33:53there was a time when um i worried about
33:56michael's own father you know when he
33:58said i'm going back
33:59to visit my dad in new york and i was i
34:02was probably more concerned then than i
34:04ever was because
34:06i didn't trust sunny i felt like sunny's
34:09first allegiance was to that family
34:12to the mob to the mob even with the
34:14expensive even the life of his son
34:15yes and i believed that and i was
34:17fearful of it and mike said you're crazy
34:19my father
34:20would never do that and i said well why
34:21wouldn't he are there still aspects of
34:23michael's past
34:24that cast a shadow on your present life
34:29i live with this man 29 years i sleep
34:32next to him i see him wrestling in his
34:34sleep
34:35you know and that and i know he says you
34:37know i still have remorse and i still
34:39feel pain about some of the things that
34:42i've done in my life and i guess when
34:44i'm asleep and i'm having these fits and
34:46these
34:47because sometimes i'll just be like what
34:48was going on last night and he said well
34:51i guess that's when it comes out you
34:52know when he's when he's sleeping when
34:55he's just not uh
34:56not sleeping peacefully he's dealing
34:59with all
34:59his demons from the past what one hears
35:02a lot about the glamorous side of the
35:04life of people who are
35:06working with the mob or in the mob you
35:08you're presenting
35:10the other side another side of stark
35:13reality which you saw
35:14it's ugly there's a lot of ugliness in
35:16it and people are like oh the mob is so
35:18glamorous and i'm like
35:20you know someone needs to really tell
35:23how glamorous this life is because it's
35:24not
35:25it's really not
35:30[Music]
35:33could it be that the mafia is capable of
35:36wielding such influence
35:38that a father might abandon his son
35:41to their revenge
35:45[Music]
35:58we don't acknowledge any governments
36:00there's this ideology that
36:02we do is right
36:08people gotta understand the mob is not a
36:10business it's a way of life
36:14it's part of who we are
36:17i think everybody in the world would
36:19love to be treated
36:20like a god
36:25well i was treated like a god
36:31the people i met were once true
36:33believers in a criminal religion
36:38today they're outcasts cut off from the
36:41life
36:42they were once prepared to die for
36:45[Music]
36:48i'm back in miami this time to meet
36:51someone who is still in the life
36:54it's a chance to find out how the mafia
36:56survives
36:58and operates today
37:01the man i'm about to talk to is a
37:04low-level street enforcer
37:06he's been in and out of prison all his
37:08life
37:09most recently on charges of racketeering
37:13[Music]
37:15we weren't allowed to say where we met
37:17him and we weren't allowed
37:19to show his face
37:23thank you very much for giving us so
37:25much of your time and
37:26thank you for allowing us to come here i
37:28wonder but i could begin by asking you
37:30this which crime family are you
37:33associated with banana cry family
37:37that's one of the five big families
37:40in new york yes it is i'm told that you
37:43are
37:43an enforcer an enforcer is somebody who
37:46goes and force the rules let's say you
37:47owe me money
37:48make sure that you paid it that first
37:50time i come nicely
37:51second time not so nicely would you ever
37:53go as fast as threatening to kill
37:55somebody
37:56you don't threaten to kill nobody i mean
37:58if they're gonna do it it's just done
38:01how much of that is still happening not
38:04much
38:04not much not much it's today it's a
38:07different world
38:08somebody gets in trouble nobody wants to
38:11do time no more
38:12you know it's the first one who
38:14cooperates with the agents
38:17gets the first gets the best deal it's a
38:20different world there's no loyalty no
38:22honor no more
38:23but the difficulty today is that you the
38:26difficulty is that you're playing hand
38:27to hand combat with the fbi agents today
38:30you know and today the the wars are so
38:33enforced
38:35it's just it's just hard to do with the
38:38technology the fbi has today
38:40and they're gonna get you is the mafia
38:43still good at
38:44recruiting people yeah yeah today it's
38:48it's it's like uh years ago it was
38:51you know you had to kill somebody and
38:53you had to uh
38:54you know be or be able capable to kill
38:58it was like you know becoming a green
39:00beret but today it's more like if you're
39:02a good earner
39:03you know can you trust anyone who can
39:06you trust
39:08you can trust the dead man it's the only
39:10person you could trust that's my
39:12motto i don't trust nobody except my
39:15mother
39:16you can't even trust the boss no more
39:18because they turn around
39:19and rat on you on my first case there
39:21was a guy who ratted
39:22was a made guy a captain and he didn't
39:25get indicted because he proffered and he
39:28was the big shot and he you know you
39:31can't trust nobody no more
39:35but enforcing still goes on of course
39:39and you would say the mafia is still
39:41alive and well in this part of the
39:43country
39:43there'll always be a mafia just like
39:45there'll always be
39:47uh the catholic church or the jewish
39:50religion they'll always be the mafia
40:00for more than a hundred years the mafia
40:03has been by far
40:04the preeminent crime organization in the
40:07united states
40:11even though its ranks have been thinned
40:12out its success has been built on a
40:15military-like
40:16structure and on devout loyalty
40:20nothing would more demonstrate this
40:22commitment than my final encounter
40:25with mikey scars
40:30i'd arrange to meet him at a cemetery
40:32where his elder brother robert is buried
40:38he worked for the mafia and the mafia
40:42killed him
40:44[Music]
40:47right over here leonardo try to let me
40:50introduce to my brother robin's beloved
40:52wife joanne
40:54how often do you get here mike
40:57uh i probably was here only three times
41:01in uh there's 14 years uh
41:0412 years excuse me 12 years
41:08were you very close as brothers oh yeah
41:10very close we were different
41:12you know but uh i was more conservative
41:14he was more liberal guy
41:16easy going uh a good man
41:19good man good parent good father he died
41:22ironically
41:24uh 33 years today to this day
41:27thursday july 16th 1981.
41:31what was your first reaction on on
41:34hearing the news of your brother's death
41:39devastation uh you know your mind runs
41:42100 miles away should i go load up start
41:44killing the people i think killed them
41:46uh you know my mother his wife his kids
41:50how to deal with all of that there's so
41:53many emotions going around in you
41:55and you're trying to act like a man
41:56you're trying to be strong you're trying
41:58to you're trying to be
41:59process this and get the right answer
42:02but what's the right answer you just
42:03lost your brother
42:04everything goes out the window but it
42:06comes back
42:07to the people that came and really not
42:10only schooled me
42:11put me in my place and threatened me
42:15that this is the life and you try to
42:17gather your emotions
42:19that's unnatural because you you want to
42:21grieve you want to get even
42:23i'm a criminal i'm a gangster industry i
42:25want to kill or kill my brother
42:27and here i am that i have to listen to
42:29older men
42:30who've experienced the same thing they
42:33need to be part of kozanosha in this
42:35life and accept it
42:37or die for it and i could have went and
42:39killed people
42:40that i thought were involved in this at
42:41that time i might have killed some of
42:43the wrong people
42:45but i would be dead and what would that
42:47have accomplished
42:49nothing nothing could justify
42:52killing somebody in that way as your
42:54brother was killed
42:56trevor this is the life this is the life
43:00we chose
43:01this is the life he chose the path
43:04and this is part of of the end result
43:08when you do something wrong in that life
43:09or alleged to do something wrong in that
43:11life
43:12your life is not your own your property
43:13of somebody you're probably of this
43:15entity
43:16this causes an ostrich that goes back
43:18hundreds of years your property of this
43:20and when you get involved there you know
43:23what could happen
43:24uh he killed people he was involved in
43:27murders
43:28and ultimately he paid the price that he
43:30doled out others
43:32despite the way you rationalize this how
43:35is it possible to
43:36remain part of the life when they're
43:40capable
43:40or when it's capable of doing such
43:43horrific things to you
43:44and those closest to you
43:48well that's the part about living the
43:50life with every fiber of your body
43:52and believing in that life and that
43:53ideology we're brothers
43:55this is the whole thing we kiss each
43:57other on the lips we kiss each other on
43:59both cheeks
43:59we give each other hugs we baptize each
44:01other's kids the next day they're
44:03shooting in the back of the head
44:04it's crazy to see him i love the life
44:07along with a lot of other people that
44:09accepted those rules
44:10and lost loved ones it's it's it's a
44:13hard thing
44:15to come to terms with a person like
44:17yourself
44:18is to say how does this guy lose his
44:20brother and say
44:21it's okay it's not okay it's not okay
44:24it's just that it's their life to the
44:26life you lead this is the life you
44:28choose
44:28and he made a mistake and he paid the
44:30ultimate price
44:33thank you for allowing us to make this
44:35visit with you oh
44:37well you know what he deserves some kind
44:39of audience
44:40he's a nondescript fellow who just was a
44:43working guy trying to support his family
44:45they got involved in a life that we all
44:48knew
44:49paid the price of making the wrong
44:51decision
44:53it's a heavy price to pay yeah for his
44:55whole family
44:57nobody was the same after that
45:05next time what did you think about the
45:08setup
45:09in the in the mafia i mean they had
45:11codes
45:12loyalty silence it's [ __ ]
45:15the only code is make what you can get
45:18take what you can get
45:20who cares about that [ __ ] from a man who
45:22didn't believe in it
45:23to a man who embodied everything it
45:25stands for
45:26i meet the former godfather of the
45:28philadelphia mall
45:30you killed your friend yes because he
45:33wanted to kill me
45:35john elite the sheriff introduces me to
45:38his family
45:39did i admire him growing up and see what
45:41he did and watch those movies and you
45:43say wow like i would love to do that
45:45yeah and i discover how michael franzis
45:49became
45:50perhaps the richest gangster since al
45:53capone
45:55you made staggering amounts of money at
45:57one point in time i was pulling in
45:59close to 10 million dollars a week 10
46:02million dollars a week
46:03it was fun at the time i gotta admit
46:06[Music]
46:08that
46:13please
46:16[Music]
46:30[Music]
46:40she
46:45you

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