YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → INTERROGATION - Jennifer Pan's 10 Hour Police Interview-Interrogation for Her Mother's Death

INTERROGATION - Jennifer Pan's 10 Hour Police Interview-Interrogation for Her Mother's Death — Transcript

by BEE Archives · 71,303 words · 13,484 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:01[Music]
0:21okay
0:22so today is now
0:26i just want to make sure that our
0:27recordings are on just give me one
0:28second
0:31good to go
0:35so today's the 9th of november
0:382010
0:40it's now
0:41on my watch 244
0:44am
0:48you're in a room right now that's
0:51video being video and audio recorded
0:53this is a digital audio recorder and the
0:56reason i have that there is um it's more
0:59of a fail-safe that if something was to
1:01happen to the video system and recording
1:02that i have another it may not be a
1:04video but i have a digital audio
1:06recording of what we're going to speak
1:08to speak about
1:09um
1:10we're again we're at five district i
1:12want to go through a form with you it
1:14may seem kind of you know why you're
1:16doing this but
1:17um this is a it's
1:19it's like you're
1:20you're swearing to tell the truth about
1:22what you're gonna talk to me about
1:24and it's also going to explain to you
1:28the penalties for not telling the truth
1:30i don't expect you to help me
1:33but
1:34for a homicide investigation anyone
1:37who's very close to the investigation we
1:40do this with
1:41okay so this isn't suspecting that
1:43you're not going to tell the truth
1:45this is more of a feature that you
1:47understand the importance of telling the
1:49complete truth okay
1:52that's all i ask for but so this form
1:55please don't take it personal
1:57okay but it's something we go through
1:59with everyone
2:01okay if you have any questions about the
2:02form so i'm gonna read this form to you
2:05then someone's gonna come in here with
2:07either a bible or a firm whatever your
2:09choice is that whatever you tell will be
2:11the truth okay and then from that point
2:14i'm going to go on and we're going to
2:15ask questions okay
2:16so
2:21first off i want you to uh identify
2:23identify yourself speak loudly there are
2:26there are mics in here i just now with
2:28the this is a new room for me i don't
2:29know where they are but i need to hear a
2:31nice clear voice
2:34so if you can identify yourself for me
2:36my name is jennifer pan can you spell
2:38your last name jennifer p a n pen pen
2:42okay do you understand that everything
2:44um that is being said in this room has
2:46been videotaped audio recorded and
2:48digitally auto recorded yes
2:54i would like
2:55i asked you to introduce yourself which
2:57you already have and that you consent to
2:59this tape being made
3:02my name is randy slade i introduce
3:04myself to you at the hospital my badge
3:06number is 531 and i'm a member of the
3:08york regional police homicide unit
3:10uh monitoring this statement right right
3:13here
3:14in the next room okay is uh trevor buyer
3:17his badge number is 1446.
3:19as i indicated when this tape started
3:21that it today is tuesday the ninth day
3:23of november 2010
3:26and the time when i started was 2 44
3:29in the morning we're presently at five
3:31district in the town of markham in the
3:33regional municipality of york
3:36is there anything uh is there anything i
3:38need to know in order to understand your
3:40statement and that means is that you as
3:42you suffer from any physical or mental
3:44condition use of alcohol drugs or
3:46anything of any concerns that would
3:47influence your ability to give me a
3:49statement
3:51no
3:56we are investigating a murder
3:59okay and you're aware of who it is it's
4:02um the murder of your mom and uh can you
4:05can you tell me where your mom's name is
4:08my mother's name is big ha pen
4:11pam
4:12as a part of our investigation into the
4:14offense i would like to interview on
4:16videotape and under oath or salom
4:18affirmation or solemn
4:20declaration
4:22it is my obligation to advise you of
4:24certain information before we commence
4:26this statement you may be a witness in
4:29the court concerning the events you're
4:30about to describe in your statement if
4:32at any time you change your statement or
4:35claim not to remember the events the
4:36content of this video statement you now
4:38give may be used as evidence in court do
4:41you understand yes i do
4:46i'm going to get you some kleenex in a
4:48second okay
4:50you you have nothing to apologize to me
4:53for jennifer i i uh i i it's going to be
4:58tough
4:59but you know the importance of this
5:00statement okay but don't you have
5:02nothing to apologize to me about i'm
5:05here to help you okay
5:08um it is also my obligation to advise
5:10you that fabricating evidence this stuff
5:12is the penalties for lying as i
5:14explained to you earlier fabricating
5:16evidence with the intent to mislead is
5:17an offense under section 137 of the
5:19criminal code if you give a false
5:22statement under oath you may be charged
5:23with fabricating evidence if convicted
5:26of fabricating fabricating evidence you
5:28may be sentenced up to 14 years in jail
5:30it is also an offence under section 139
5:33of the criminal code to obstruct by
5:35willfully attempting to obstruct pervert
5:36or defeat the course of justice
5:39you may be charged if you obstruct
5:40justice
5:41obstruct justice
5:43if convicted of obstructing justice you
5:45could be sentenced up to 10 years in
5:46jail
5:47it is also an offense under section 140
5:50of the criminal code to commit public
5:51mischief by causing a police officer to
5:54start or continue an investigation by
5:56making a false statement that accuses
5:57some other person of committing an
5:59offense and you may be charged if you
6:01commit public mischief if convicted of
6:03public mischief you could be sentenced
6:05up to five years if you are charged with
6:07one or more of these offenses this
6:09statement may be used in court against
6:10you do you understand the criminal
6:12sanctions of what i have explained to
6:14you yes
6:17do you understand the criminal
6:18consequences of making a false statement
6:22do you understand that it is your choice
6:24whether or not to give a statement
6:27yes
6:30do you understand the importance of
6:32telling the truth yes i do with respect
6:34to this investigation
6:38if you've spoken to any police officer
6:40person and authority in connection with
6:42investigation i want it clearly
6:44understood
6:45that i do not want it to influence you
6:46in making unders uh making a statement
6:49do you understand yes
6:51do you have any questions
6:54so basically um just
6:56start anew right now so what
7:00what i've just explained to you is
7:03you're here voluntarily
7:06to help us
7:07that you don't have to talk to us if you
7:09don't want to but the importance of
7:10talking to us and if you're talking to
7:12us the importance of telling the truth
7:14and if you don't tell the truth there's
7:15criminal consequences for not telling
7:17the truth that's all that all that stuff
7:20had to deal with
7:21okay
7:22you can't point the finger at someone
7:24else you can't tell us to go off in a
7:25different direction you just got to tell
7:27us the truth you know exactly exactly
7:30and do you have any questions with
7:32respect to what i've just told you it's
7:34just
7:35like sitting sometimes like parts come
7:37back but i didn't remember when i said
7:39no one is
7:40and that's the process this is going to
7:42be a long process this is an initial
7:44statement from you we may you know as
7:46you remember other things you may be
7:48asked you may want to come in and tell
7:49us things
7:50okay
7:51no one is going to tell you how to give
7:53us a give a perfect statement you just
7:55do what the best you can
7:56given that given what you're dealing
7:58with okay
8:00any other questions
8:05are you prepared to give a statement
8:06under oath or solemn affirmation
8:08affirmation or declaration yes
8:13okay so i'm going to get i'm going to
8:15get there's a commissioner a voice who's
8:16going to come in and deal with this
8:17right now with you
8:19just it's just a filling out of this
8:20last portion
8:22right here and i'm going to get you some
8:23kleenex too well while she's talking to
8:26you okay
9:33okay
9:48and
9:51hello my name is andrew laspiro i'm the
9:53commissioner of oaks with york regional
9:55police
9:56i'm here so you can give a truthful
9:57statement either by solemn affirmation
9:59or swearing on the bible which do you
10:02prefer the bible just put your hand on
10:04the bible
10:09do you jennifer pan swear that the
10:12evidence you shall give on this
10:13investigation shall be the truth the
10:15whole truth and nothing but the truth so
10:16help you god
10:37okay
10:58just close that door for me
11:08okay
11:12so we're through the forms um
11:15that's just that's the
11:18administrative process about this
11:22now i want you to
11:23sort of take yourself back to earlier on
11:26today
11:27uh yesterday meaning the 8th of november
11:31and
11:32tell me about your day
11:33okay start at any point in time
11:36where wherever you feel comfortable
11:38and then we're going to move we're going
11:40to move forward okay
11:42um
11:45yesterday
11:46probably around nine o'clock in the
11:48morning
11:49nine nine thirty
11:51um my mother
11:53she woke me up and she told me that she
11:55was going to going to visit my
11:57grandfather
11:58who was ill
11:59and that she was going to go over pick
12:01up my aunt to go
12:03um
12:04once we stepped out of the house there
12:06were a few police officers blocking
12:10barricading the driveway
12:12and so she called me down and when i
12:14came down the officers just said that
12:15there was a gas leak in the area
12:18and they were just as precaution
12:20evacuating
12:21and before we could walk over to a safer
12:24place they said that
12:26the evacuation had been moved to
12:28somewhere else it was safe to go back
12:30home
12:32with that my mom decided for me to stay
12:34home
12:35and
12:36because i have some piano history stuff
12:39that i'm working on
12:40so i was
12:42doing that on the computer played a
12:44little piano
12:46i forgot what time my mom comes came
12:48home probably around like
12:493 3 30. my father came home later than
12:54usual
12:55he said that he had forgot to
12:58lock a toolbox i need to turn back but
13:00i'm not exactly sure
13:03he just was home later than usual
13:07and once he came home he
13:09phoned up my uncle and asked him to go
13:11to
13:12buy usb pen i think just to go shopping
13:15with him because my my uncle doesn't
13:17drive
13:19they laughed so my mom had prepared
13:21dinner because she was heading to go
13:23dancing that night online dancing she
13:25does it every monday and so her and i
13:28sat down for dinner first
13:30and then
13:31after my father came home he did that
13:33and then a friend of mine came over we
13:35do tv night every
13:37every so often
13:39so
13:40my dad i guess one up on the computer as
13:42he always does and i was downstairs with
13:44my friend watching movies
13:46and i'm on without uh dancing
13:50my friend left around nine i believe
13:52[Music]
13:57and then my
13:59upstairs in my room
14:01called it a night
14:02with the tv on
14:04talking on the phone with a friend of
14:05mine
14:07and then
14:09shortly after my mom came home i believe
14:11that was around 9 30 or so she was
14:14rummaging downstairs i didn't
14:16think anything of it
14:19and then
14:21suddenly i just heard my mom calling for
14:23my dad to come down
14:25and that's when i lowered the volume on
14:27my tv
14:28and i could hear the voices weren't any
14:31voices i was very familiar with
14:35and
14:36so i was scared and i couldn't move i
14:38just sat in my room for
14:40a while
14:42and then
14:43i thought i heard them all like leave
14:45the top floor and i peered out of my
14:47bedroom door
14:48and a guy was there and he came at me
14:50and
14:51had string in his hands and tied my arms
14:54back and said i have a gun behind your
14:55back
14:56do what i say if you do what i say then
14:58no one will get hurt where is the money
15:00show me where your money is
15:11i um
15:12i have still a few
15:14a bit of money put aside from when i was
15:16waitressing cash
15:19so i showed him where it was and he took
15:21it and put it in his pocket i think
15:24and then
15:27that's where
15:28they pushed me to my parents room
15:31and asked me where the money was there
15:33and i didn't really know
15:35so they kind of like one was right
15:38beside me blocking my way to the door
15:40all the other ones turned over the bed
15:43to find some more cash in my mom's
15:45bedside table
15:52in which then they dragged me down the
15:53stairs
15:55and made me kneel at the bottom telling
15:57me to face down on the floor while the
15:59other guy had a gun behind my head
16:02and asked my mom where her purse was
16:07my mom kept trying to get up and they
16:09kept telling her to sit down and so i
16:12didn't want her to get hurt i told her
16:13mom sit down
16:16they were trying to find her wallet but
16:17she
16:18her english thinker so she kept saying
16:20first
16:21they kept pushing her down onto the
16:23chair
16:24okay
16:26take your time
16:28take your time
16:30all this is very important so take your
16:32time
16:36they kept all the lights up
16:38on the main floor
16:41the only time there was light
16:43was when they opened the fridge door
16:46to see if they could find where my mom's
16:47purse was
16:50i didn't
16:51at that point i saw three
16:53figures of men
16:57one with the hoodie like the one i could
16:59see the most clearly he had a hoodie on
17:01and i believe he had
17:04a bandana of some sort covering from
17:08like his lower
17:10under his eyes down
17:15and then for some reason i think one of
17:18the gentlemen asked my father if he had
17:20money in his wallet and where his wallet
17:22was so they took me because i was next
17:24to the stairwell they took me up the
17:26stairs to
17:27show them where my father's wallet was
17:29but i'm
17:30i didn't know they had turned the room
17:32upside down i didn't know where his
17:34pants were at that time
17:39and then
17:40after they had gotten that
17:43they had taken me and they tied me to
17:45the top of the bastard
17:47just with one string i could still move
17:50but
17:50i was afraid to because the one guy just
17:52had that gun just
18:00the next thing i know i think i heard my
18:02parents going down the stairs and my mom
18:04was asking them for me to come with them
18:07they wouldn't let me come with them
18:13after he said the last things i heard
18:15them say was
18:18you lied you lied to us
18:21you lied to him
18:24and then i heard two
18:26pops my mom screamed
18:30i yelled out for her
18:33and a couple more pups
18:42take your time
18:43take your time
18:51and i think i heard my mom
18:53say
18:53moan or
18:55something and then they did one more
18:57before they left and then one of the
18:58guys
18:59said we have to go now in too long
19:04and then they ran up the door
19:06and i think
19:08once they were out the door
19:10i heard my dad go up the stairs and at
19:12that point i had my phone in my poc in
19:15my
19:16on me behind me
19:18that i had hidden there that they didn't
19:20know about
19:21so when i when i when they i thought
19:24that they had heard them i'll leave and
19:26my dad ran up the stairs i whipped up
19:27the phone and i called no one went
19:31but i i still hadn't heard anything from
19:33my mom and all i could hear was my dad
19:34running on the street
19:37moaning
19:38sounds
19:49and that's pretty much
19:52what i've so what happens continue on
19:55from
19:56from now
19:57to the point that the police arrive
20:00i was just on the phone with the
20:02secretary or the operator i begged her
20:05not to leave me alone and that my dad
20:07was outside i was yelling to him but he
20:09wouldn't come in i don't know if he
20:11didn't hear me didn't come in i think he
20:13went to look for help
20:17and i didn't get to see my dad at all
20:19until before i left the hospital just
20:22now
20:22how did you get free
20:25the cop came and he snipped the two
20:29the two strings off for me i was out
20:32asking him for so long and
20:37they said they couldn't untie me until
20:39they knew how to properly untie the
20:41string
20:42okay
20:44so
20:44we've gone through
20:46we've gone through a very tough portion
20:48and now
20:50we're certainly going to go back
20:51clinically you know try and re i want
20:54you to put yourself now as a as a figure
20:56looking down at what you see
20:59okay
21:00um
21:01so you
21:02go back you're up in your room at 9 30
21:06correct
21:07like 9 9 30 right you're you're on the
21:09phone who are you on the phone with with
21:11a friend of mine an old co-worker an old
21:13co-worker are you on the phone with that
21:15person
21:16when you hear these voices that you
21:18don't recognize yes
21:20and
21:21um
21:22do you remain on the phone with this
21:24person or when does that conversation
21:26end it ended when i heard my mother
21:28asking my father to come down the stairs
21:31and normally
21:32they
21:33they
21:34they don't
21:35you know they don't communicate very
21:37well sometimes
21:39so what i did i told my friend i'll call
21:41you back and i hung up
21:43stuck the phone in the back pocket and
21:46started to go out the door
21:48and that's when i noticed that there
21:49were
21:50men running around okay so
21:53let's back up again
21:55when you hear your mom come do you hear
21:57your mom
21:58in the house she was in the house i had
22:01gone down the stairs did you hear
22:04so before this this is when when did you
22:06hear your mom for the first time in the
22:08house when she came home
22:10and what time was that
22:129 15.
22:14[Music]
22:16is there a time period
22:18so and where is your father at that time
22:20he had he's just finishing on the
22:22computer i think and he was heading to
22:25bed
22:26so did you physically see your mom
22:29yes
22:30and at that time there was no one
22:32strange in the house no i went she was
22:34on the downstairs sofa
22:36she was watching tv when i last saw her
22:39okay
22:41where is the
22:42so
22:44between that time that you see her and
22:46you leave her on the sofa
22:48until you hear the noises the strange
22:50the voices as you describe them how long
22:53is that
22:54maybe a half hour
22:56a half an hour
23:00um
23:02where is it your mom was before here
23:04she goes dancing every monday
23:07at saint
23:12i'd like to say saint paul but i'm
23:16not 100
23:17sure
23:18and where is saint paul's
23:21because i don't know she's moved
23:23locations from the last time she does
23:25lessons yeah
23:26um the last one i remember she said that
23:28there was one on birch mount and
23:32finch
23:35you have birchman and finch on the
23:37southwest corner
23:39a birch mountain finch yeah
23:42i know the area okay
23:44she used to dance there but i'm not 100
23:48sure whether she moved to a different
23:50with somebody else
23:52she does dance she does goes dancing
23:54with a few relatives as well okay
23:58was she would she have been there with a
24:00few relatives tonight is that the normal
24:02thing onto one night i forgot to ask
24:06normally
24:08the normal is that she goes with one or
24:10two friends one from across the street
24:12and one relative
24:14just on the other side of the 407. what
24:17are their names
24:19um
24:21i call
24:23i only know their names by what i call
24:25them okay um i call them
24:29and then the other one is my cousin
24:33and her name is walton
24:35and the one who lives on your street
24:37what number
24:38the neighbor who lives on that she
24:40usually goes with
24:41uh
24:42across the street about two house down i
24:45don't know the exact number
24:46unfortunately okay we'll find that out
24:49um and so she's been going there for how
24:52many how long
24:54she's been dancing for
24:58a long while a long time maybe more than
25:00a year okay
25:02um
25:04what does your mom do what what did she
25:06do for a living
25:07she used to work for magna okay but what
25:10do the job cut
25:15i'm sorry um due to the child cut back
25:17she was unemployed but could not find
25:19employment okay and
25:22so she's been at home looking for a job
25:24and
25:24recently i think her pension's done
25:27how long is how long has she been out of
25:29work with manga
25:34i'd say at least a year and a half
25:37okay
25:38and um what about your father what does
25:40he do for a living he also works for the
25:43car company
25:44called
25:46they just changed their names um
25:48something cole ben cobell and stell
25:52what does he do
25:53i
25:54he does he wears many hats from like
25:56assembly line worker but i think his
25:58title is tool and die operator okay
26:02so
26:039 15
26:05you see your mom down on the downstairs
26:07couch and you see your dad he's at the
26:10cheater and where is the computer
26:11located upstairs
26:12right beside his room he's in a separate
26:14room beside his room okay
26:17and you are going to bed you're going up
26:19to your room to watch tv and to turn
26:21down for the night
26:24and then approximately again how long
26:26later that you hear these voices
26:31my mom had to be home for maybe
26:3420 minutes
26:36don't really have that window
26:39i think around like maybe 9
26:4140
26:439 40.
26:44okay estimates it's fine i'm not
26:47expecting to hold you down to times
26:48because we can probably get that from
26:50who you were speaking to right because
26:53how long after you end the conversation
26:56with the person does this do you hear
26:58the voices
27:00they're already in the house so you end
27:02the conversation because you hear the
27:04voices you'll call the person back
27:06yeah because i heard my dad and then i
27:08heard some strange voices is when i was
27:10like i'll call you back and who was it
27:12that you were speaking to a co-worker of
27:14mine and what's what's that name
27:16edward edward you know edward's last
27:18name pacifica
27:19okay
27:21so
27:22what is it that you hear that causes
27:24your father to go downstairs my mother
27:26calling for him
27:27and what is he is she speaking in
27:29english or is she speaking in another
27:30language she was speaking in english
27:32which is why it also caught my attention
27:34what language does she normally speak uh
27:36at home we speak a mix of like
27:39vietnamese is most fluent but we do
27:41throw some chinese words here and there
27:44okay or english words here but the vast
27:46majority of it is vietnamese
27:50what is the first when you hear these
27:52this can you hear them talking
27:54downstairs the unknown voices
27:58it's a mumble because i had the tv on it
28:00was just all the mumble
28:02when's the first time that you actually
28:04can hear one of them talking
28:08when
28:09he was upstairs
28:11and i thought he had left the upstairs
28:13because i was frozen in my room for a
28:15while
28:16trying to listen in but i couldn't
28:18hear over my tv and i didn't want to
28:21startle
28:23startle them by turning it off or
28:25like diminishing the volume so i was
28:27kind of pressed up against my door for a
28:29while trying to hear it
28:32and i thought that all the people
28:34upstairs had gone down so i opened up my
28:36door quietly and tried to peer out and
28:38he saw me
28:40and that's when he came
28:42can you did you have lights on in your
28:44room at that time my lights were i only
28:46had the reflection off my tv which is
28:49lower to the door what do you see of
28:51this guy
28:52and i'm calling him a guy because you
28:54said you you thought they were i think
28:55they were all three emails okay so tell
28:57me about this guy
28:59uh he was
29:02medium filled okay
29:05i didn't i don't remember any of his
29:07clothing unfortunately
29:09the only thing i can remember was him
29:10was he had dreadlocks he had dreadlocks
29:13so are you can you describe his race to
29:15me he was black did it was his head
29:18covered was his face covered do you
29:20remember anything about that just that
29:22his dredge blocks were
29:23like
29:24kind of like flopping all over the place
29:26i couldn't really
29:28see his face and they kept the lights
29:30dark as much as
29:32them as much as possible how long how
29:35long were the dreadlocks was it were
29:36they you know like when you say their
29:38dreadlocks and they were flopping all
29:39over his face
29:42it's hard to i i
29:44don't remember 100
29:47i think some of them were like around
29:49his face were a little shorter
29:51and then in the back there there were
29:53longer ones okay
29:55now his complexion um there's various
29:58degrees of of
30:00of
30:01dark to medium dark to to actually light
30:04uh i'd say he was
30:06he i wouldn't say he was the darkest
30:08person i've seen but he was
30:10on the darker side
30:12any facial hair
30:22i'd like to say maybe
30:27say only what you can think just just
30:29say what you what you think i don't want
30:30you to say what you're doing i don't
30:32want to say something wrong exactly so
30:34if you don't know then it's okay to say
30:36it's okay
30:37okay so
30:40can you give an age approximation for
30:41this guy
30:46well when the other officer asked me i
30:48was leaning along the ages of 28
30:53to 33.
30:55so
30:55and
30:56someone who's established in life
30:59i would assume so like non-established
31:01meaning world meaning that he's been
31:02around
31:03been around so
31:05a 20 year old talks completely different
31:07than a 30 year old as you know he seemed
31:09to be the one in charge he seemed to be
31:12running the show he's the one that
31:14had me
31:16like he pretty much did not let me go
31:19he was in charge of me
31:21and all the money i showed him he
31:23pocketed
31:24okay did he have a gun
31:26did you see the gun
31:28i only saw the top part of it what did
31:30it look like um
31:33kind of
31:34it was black yeah and
31:37it kind of
31:39not triangular but it was slightly wider
31:41at the end
31:43than it was
31:45closer do you know the difference
31:47between what a pistol and a revolver is
31:50yes
31:51okay
31:52do you know if it was a pistol or a
31:53vault revolver
31:55that particular one that he was holding
31:57i believe should have been a pistol a
31:59pistol okay because the difference is
32:01the round part right so you tell me
32:03what's a pistol and what's a revolver
32:05which one has the round part i would
32:07think that the revolver has the the ones
32:09that the bullets go around okay
32:12and it didn't look like that it looked
32:13like more like a handgun
32:15so it looked more like a pistol yes what
32:17you're saying not a revolver
32:19the other gentleman though we'll go
32:21we'll go to the other gentleman we'll go
32:22this in stages so that we're not doing
32:24well we'll call this guy number one
32:26because you're saying that he seemed to
32:28be running the show is he running he was
32:30in control
32:31from my perspective he was in control of
32:34you yes
32:35is this the gentleman is this the guy
32:37who tied you up yes
32:38okay
32:39i want you to just
32:42together he wasn't the one that tied me
32:44to the banister okay
32:46so where did he get the shoelaces or
32:48whatever the laces were or whatever it
32:50was that tied you up i'm not sure might
32:52have been from my mother's room or the
32:54study room or because my mom has a
32:56sewing table next to her
32:58bed so when you open the door where is
33:01this guy
33:03he was just stepping out of my brother's
33:06well what formula would be my brother's
33:09room so he's already on the upstairs
33:11yeah do you know where the other
33:13guys involved in this are
33:15i know one stayed with my parents
33:17downstairs
33:18okay
33:19um the other one
33:21i'm not at that point in time i
33:24was more focused on him
33:26like he was seeing me and he was coming
33:29after me so you're saying there's three
33:31for sure
33:32that's all you saw a total of three at
33:34one time you saw three people together
33:36yes when i went downstairs i saw three
33:38shadows
33:39okay so
33:41um
33:42this number one guy and we're calling
33:44number one because he was he was the one
33:45who tied you up and he's the first one
33:47that you actually are confronted by
33:49i mean he comes out of your brother's
33:51room what was formerly your brother's
33:53room
33:54and he comes into you comes into your
33:56room
33:57and what happens in there he tells me to
33:59sit down
34:00and he shows me his gun so it's not
34:02pointing at you but you see it and where
34:04is it it's like in a holster almost okay
34:10and then he showed it to me
34:12and he's like don't move
34:15and then someone else brought him the
34:16shoelace
34:18okay can you describe the other person
34:19who brings the shoelace i would he was
34:22the second person and the only other
34:24person that i encountered with
34:26okay um i only saw the third guy but he
34:28didn't encounter with me at all okay but
34:32he
34:32had a hood he had a hoodie
34:34and uh like a
34:36bandanna over his face
34:40his complexion
34:41then it was really dark but i could tell
34:44that he was darker than
34:46the first guy so he's a male black as
34:49well but thinner build but thinner build
34:52so we got a medium build fin building
34:53what about the height where you know
34:55like where are we in height scales
34:57how tall are you five seven so where are
35:00they in comparison to you
35:18i'd say one was pretty much right around
35:20my height level and which guy is that
35:23the
35:24the medium build the first guy first guy
35:26you encounter who shows you the gun yeah
35:28and ty eventually ties your wrists
35:30together
35:31he's he's about your height so he's
35:33somewhere in the area five
35:35six to five eight seven five six to
35:37seven seven i'd say okay and the other
35:39guy i'd say around five
35:42eight maybe smidge it higher lower so
35:45he's taller than you but not much not
35:47much okay
35:49now the first guy who spoke to you what
35:51kind of did he have any accent
35:53was it
35:55was it clear english
35:56english unbroken
35:59no action
36:01from the terms he used i didn't get to
36:02pick up an accent no
36:04short phrases
36:05he sounded he sounded canadian
36:08i would say
36:09yes he was born here he was born here
36:12okay so number two guy you see with the
36:14bandana and he's got a darker complexion
36:16and he's he's thinner
36:18and he's about five eight with a hoodie
36:20with a hoodie
36:21is it black hoodie or what color is it
36:23it's
36:24again it was all really dark so i'm
36:26assuming he was wearing black what about
36:28the bandana can you see a color on the
36:30bandana it was very dark as well okay
36:33anything distinguishing about his eyes
36:36i didn't look straight into his eyes no
36:38no
36:39any other portions of clothing that you
36:40recognized
36:43no unfortunately okay how about this
36:45guy's
36:46um language what did how was he did he
36:48speak to you didn't speak at all nothing
36:50he just nodded he nodded
36:53who seemed to be giving the directions
36:55number one he the guy first guy you
36:57encountered seemed to be telling
36:58everyone what to do
37:00from what you t you can tell
37:02okay so now they're both upstairs with
37:05you where are your parents they're in
37:08the living room they're in the living
37:09room
37:10and now what happens
37:14they take me downstairs are they have
37:16they tied you now yep the number one has
37:18tied me and now they're taking me down
37:20the stairs describe first how he's tied
37:22you he told he grabbed my arm and he
37:25pulled it to the back and said give me
37:26your other arm as well
37:27okay and then i was trying to make a
37:30wide x
37:32so that
37:33i could later loosen if i needed it to
37:36but he had pulled really really tight
37:38and i guess he felt my flinch
37:41and that's when he quickly tied the
37:43second knot
37:44i think i don't exactly know all i know
37:46is like i flinched and then it got
37:48tighter
37:48so you were taught you were bound behind
37:50you fine yes okay
37:53um and then you're taken downstairs
37:56tell me what happens down there
37:58um they sit me right at the bottom of
37:59the stairs like um
38:01slightly out
38:03not exactly directly at the bottom of
38:05the stairwell but just slightly over a
38:06little
38:08and um
38:10the third guy who i didn't encounter but
38:12he was there he was like
38:13where's your money cooperate with us
38:16and then my mom's like you know yelling
38:18and don't hurt us and you know my
38:20money's in my wallet just please leave
38:21my paperwork
38:24this person this third guy who you're
38:26now describing do you see him ever
38:29only as a shadow
38:30because he was there's a
38:33a wall a partial wall and he was like
38:36right in that vision
38:38over my father but
38:40partially in that vision
38:43describe his voice to you to me
38:46it had a slight
38:48just a very very slight accent do you
38:51recognize the accent
38:54i can't
38:55definitively say which accent it was
38:58more like a guyanese or
39:01jamaican accent okay
39:03so it's an island accent it's not what
39:05you'd call it's not an asian accent no
39:07it's not like a
39:08western european german or anything like
39:11this this is something you recognize as
39:13being south asian caribbean caribbean
39:16caribbean
39:18okay
39:19um
39:21when the guy upstairs number one guy who
39:24you're we described as our number one
39:25guy with the dreadlocks or with the
39:28dreadlocks right
39:30when he shows you
39:31the gun
39:32do you see an egg on his hands
39:34gloves he's wearing gloves
39:38what about anyone else the other guy the
39:40second
39:42i don't remember
39:44he must have been
39:45but i can't 100 say all i saw was that
39:49number one had gloves in his hands do
39:51you recognize her can you describe the
39:52type of gloves he had in his hands
39:55leather gloves leather gloves
39:57okay so they're not they're not like
39:59surgical gloves they're not surgical
40:01gloves they weren't
40:02like or skating gloves or like wool
40:04gloves
40:06i'm pretty sure they were
40:08leather gloves leather gloves
40:10okay
40:12so now you're downstairs you're sitting
40:14in the stairs they
40:16told me to sit at the bottom of the
40:17stairs are you on the floor on this on
40:19the floor
40:20your parents are in the living room yes
40:23how many people are with you and how
40:24many people are with your parents one
40:26with me the guy in the corner with my
40:28parents and the third guy
40:31kind of
40:32going between going between where's the
40:34purse sit down where's the purse sit
40:36down he's the guy who you describe as
40:38the thinner build medium and he was
40:40upstairs with you
40:43okay
40:47where do you go what happens from this
40:49point now you're down on the stairs and
40:50there's a guy going between there's two
40:52obviously your parents in the living
40:54room you're on the i'm looking for my
40:55mother's wallet
40:57but she can't she's
41:09take a deep breath
41:14best way to do this the best way for you
41:16to on this on these parts in here
41:19is to pull yourself out and be like
41:21you're uh you're an observer in this
41:24okay
41:25it's not going to help you through or
41:26heal you through but it's going to help
41:28you
41:29try and remember components and it
41:31neutralizes what your mom said you just
41:33are now hearing you're echoing what your
41:35mom is saying to these people okay
41:39after a bit she had realized that
41:42she didn't carry a purse she had just
41:44gone home from
41:45dancing so her wallet would be in the
41:48bag and that's where the money would be
41:52and while that guy is searching for her
41:54and telling her to sit back down
41:56the one behind the wall
41:58was asking my father if he had money in
41:59his wallet
42:02and my dad said yes
42:04and they asked how much i i think i
42:06heard my dad say sixty dollars
42:10and they
42:11then the one that was with me
42:12was signaled and he said come here go
42:15show us where it is
42:17he had a lower
42:19lower tone who's that number one number
42:22one a lower voice yeah okay and this is
42:25um and you say the reason 28 to 30-33 is
42:31is why why do you hear that as being the
42:34age of this person that you're dealing
42:35with that he's
42:37it's just the way he
42:40like his muscular tone
42:42i don't know how exactly to say this but
42:44he wasn't he wasn't like built like
42:47muscular like a young man
42:49what about the second guy you hear when
42:51you died what do you how would how old
42:53do you think he would be in
42:56i i didn't hear his voice i didn't get
42:58to see much of his face okay
43:00so you don't know but if i had to guess
43:03i'd say younger than that number one
43:05though okay
43:06so
43:07they take you you're you're down there
43:09and they're wanting to go to this wallet
43:12yes so they're now telling me like
43:14dragging me by my my sweater get up get
43:16up
43:17show us where it is
43:20okay
43:20and
43:21one kept me at the door while one was
43:23inside looking
43:25when you looked inside that bedroom
43:27had it been you said it was tossed had
43:29it already been tossed
43:31so
43:35they were in so the room had been tossed
43:37prior to you opening the door to see yes
43:40okay
43:41because that's when i figured out what
43:43was happening and it kind of froze
43:45so i heard them
43:46moving stuff around
43:48how long do you think that they were in
43:51that you heard
43:52between the time i guess it's tough in
43:53that in the freeze time but how long do
43:55you do you hear it and then moving
43:57around before you're confronted by one
44:00of them
44:02less than five less than five minutes
44:06okay i've
44:07been
44:08i just
44:09time is
44:10time's all over the place i understand
44:12that it's your estimation it's about
44:13five minutes maybe
44:15um
44:17okay so you're now upstairs and he's in
44:21who's inside the room looking for this
44:22wallet
44:24in
44:25your dad's
44:26i'm guessing number two because
44:28by the time
44:30i was found number two wasn't on the
44:31first floor
44:32he had gone back down
44:34oh no no i mean when you're back up
44:36sorry when you're now back upstairs and
44:38they're looking for your dad's wallet
44:40who's with you and who's turning the
44:41road number one has me okay and number
44:44two is the one looking and flipping and
44:46where is it here is it over there
44:48and number one keep saying
44:50time we're running out of time
44:52faster is taking too long
44:54okay
44:56how long is he in that room for
45:00maybe just a few minutes few moments not
45:02okay
45:03do they find what they're looking for
45:05i don't remember okay
45:09what happens next
45:11he decides to tie me down
45:13to the banister okay that he didn't want
45:16to take me downstairs anymore so you're
45:18now tied to the banister yep he calls
45:20for cousy
45:23to give me that string i just gave him
45:26and who is he talking to number two
45:29so he says the number two
45:31tell cousy to get me that string
45:35do you hear any other names during this
45:36whole time
45:38because just because
45:40because
45:42okay
45:43so
45:44now what happens
45:45they tied my arm to the banister did
45:47number two go downstairs
45:49he followed the directions
45:51and he comes back upstairs with the
45:53string yes
45:54and you get tied to the banister yeah
45:57okay continue
45:59and the next thing i can hear are them
46:00telling my parents to move to the
46:02basement
46:03okay
46:04and i'm asking them why where are you
46:06going and my mom's yelling to me
46:08i want my daughter why can't my daughter
46:10come too
46:11i want my daughter
46:16who goes down to the basement do you can
46:18you see that from where you're sitting
46:19my back is towards the wall
46:21do you hear anyone else in the main
46:23level
46:25where your parents were
46:27like you can hear if people are trucking
46:29down the stairs you hear your parents
46:30going down the stairs
46:32do you hear
46:34like five sets of foot strength
46:36footsteps going down there or can't you
46:38hear that
46:39it was just such a distress i don't
46:42exactly know how many people went down
46:44okay did you ever see a gun on anyone
46:47else
46:48on
46:50because number two and number three as
46:53we'll call them number three is the
46:54unknown guy who you just hear who we who
46:57we hear is cousy
46:58and you hear him with a slight island uh
47:01caribbean accent okay
47:03um one of those two
47:05like they've
47:07dressed very similarly very thin build
47:10you saw number three you can just just
47:13briefly like through the the reflection
47:16from the lamp post okay on the street
47:18through my uh through the
47:21sheer curtains
47:23yeah
47:25i just saw briefly he was quite thin
47:27build another thin build guy yeah
47:29similar to number two yes and and what
47:32about the gun did you see another gun i
47:34saw the tip of this gun because he had
47:35pointed it out at my father and that one
47:39was a revolver like it had the
47:41the rotating
47:43you saw the cylinder
47:45yeah the rotating cylinder portion of
47:47the gun yeah you saw that
47:50okay
47:51and what color was the gun
47:55i was quite a bit away okay and how did
47:58you see this how did you see this did
48:00you see it as a silhouette or did you
48:02actually physically see the gun i was on
48:04the floor kneeling when he was asking my
48:05father for his wallet yes he had pointed
48:08it out and now like i was told to keep
48:10my head down but i kind of
48:12looked up looked up like peripheral here
48:15and then i saw that
48:18so what portion of the gun are you
48:19seeing
48:20if you're seeing are you seeing him
48:21holding the with the handle and the
48:23revolver because the cylinder portion
48:25sticks right yeah like right close
48:27by here can you see him wearing gloves
48:29or can you see him honestly the lights
48:31were all out on that side of the house
48:34okay
48:35but in your estimation it's a revolver
48:37because of what you i i thought like i
48:40saw like what it looked like
48:43okay you see nothing else about his
48:45clothing or anything else originally
48:48that's all we just have to make sure
48:50that
48:51uh that we understand so you're now you
48:54when um
48:55when you're tied to the banister
48:57right and your parents are now going
48:59down to the basement
49:00do you hear or see anyone else upstairs
49:03while that's happening or down here came
49:05back upstairs for me no one came back
49:07upstairs for you
49:09okay
49:10can you can you hear the voices down
49:11other than your parents can you hear
49:13their voices down
49:14there i all i could hear was this is
49:17taking too long
49:19who's saying that
49:20whose voice is that you hear all three
49:22voices
49:23you can distinguish them who's do you
49:25hear saying this is taking too long
49:28because it was said to you upstairs
49:30right
49:31who said that to you upstairs who was
49:33saying that upstairs this is
49:35number one
49:36is that the same voice that you hear
49:38saying it downstairs
49:40yes
49:41the
49:42only two of them voiced number three and
49:44number one voiced up
49:46voice is voiced up yeah
49:48who do you hear yelling you lied to us
49:51or to that extreme
49:53number three to my i'm assuming it's to
49:55my father
49:57because he was the one asking for the
49:58wallet
50:02now
50:03your mom's your mom with her wallet
50:05would your mom do you know if your mom
50:07had gone to the bank after after her
50:10dance class or after she had finished
50:13she just uh
50:14went to the bank a few days ago
50:16okay
50:17is there what type of car does your mom
50:19drive
50:21and first off did your mom drive tonight
50:24what type of car does your mom drive
50:25alexis alexis
50:28es300 and she drove tonight
50:32okay
50:34so
50:35now you hear this commotion downstairs
50:37you said you heard two pops
50:41and you heard who screamed
50:44your mom
50:46and what was she screaming
50:47do you remember me
50:49he was kind of like a cry
50:51cry yell so it was just
50:54okay
50:55are are they still talking do you hear
50:57them talking
51:01i was focusing on my mom no i understand
51:04i'm only going to ask questions that i
51:05can try and tweak your memory for okay
51:08so you hear the two pop noise you hear
51:10your mom screaming or you crying or
51:12screaming or yelling
51:15and then you hear some more
51:17do you know how many more you heard
51:29there was a set
51:32but i don't know
51:36i don't want to say this wrong say it
51:38what you think and what you what you
51:40believe so you're not whatever you say
51:42isn't going to be
51:43for sure is i don't know if it was one
51:46and then what i'm gonna tell you and
51:48then one yeah before it was two and then
51:51what they said i'm going to tell you and
51:52then another one
51:54basically
51:55they had made the first round or pop pop
51:59and
52:01they had they had said okay that's
52:02enough let's go who said that whose
52:06voice is that number one
52:07okay and then i heard one more after
52:10that
52:10and they're like that's enough let's go
52:13okay and again that's number one
52:16yes do you hear three's voice at all
52:20not at that after he had pretty much
52:24said you
52:30after he said
52:32that you lied to us you lied to us
52:35you just had to cooperate
52:39and then they shot and that's the last
52:40time i heard of three
52:43okay
52:44so how many shots not putting it in
52:47sequence how many shots do you think you
52:49hear in total
52:52five
52:53five
52:56then what happens
52:59and then talk about them first
53:02scrambling okay scrambling
53:04can you see the front door from where
53:06you are
53:07no
53:08okay
53:09did you ever hear
53:11how they got into the house
53:14doorbell ring
53:16kick door
53:17nothing like that
53:20i don't remember how they got in i don't
53:22even know how they got in
53:23okay
53:24um
53:27you uh
53:29you hear scrambling noises
53:32dude
53:32right now right at this point in time so
53:34we're back to the time they're leaving
53:36okay
53:37or they're you hear the scrambling noise
53:39and i'm only assuming they leave because
53:40they're not there when we get there
53:43um do you know which way they go out
53:47you can't hear that i'm
53:49i'm pretty sure it was a front door
53:52but i'm not
53:53100 i didn't get to see anything
53:56like my arms were behind my back and i
53:59was against the banister
54:01and the banister is twisted so i can't
54:03see the front door
54:06now you hear your dad
54:09yeah right
54:10and what's going on so what do you hear
54:12next after you hear the scrambling
54:14they're gone
54:15because you're hearing no more i gather
54:17that's how you assume they're gone is
54:18because you don't hear then you hear
54:19your dad i reach for my phone okay
54:22and you call 9-1-1
54:24okay
54:25and then you what happens after you're
54:27on
54:30i just i
54:31heard my dad go out
54:33and
54:34i don't know if they damaged his throat
54:37how did you hear your dead so what this
54:39is the kind of importance because if you
54:40he did he go out the front door
54:42how did you how did you know he went out
54:44the front door because i heard him open
54:46the door
54:47did you hear that door open when these
54:49guys were scrambling to leave there was
54:52just so much studying
54:55is your house got an alarm system yes do
54:57you know the alarm system when the front
54:58door goes off and there's that chirping
55:00we don't have that dripping no no
55:03is your house alarmed at night when you
55:05guys go to bed
55:06before the last person goes up to bed
55:08they will alarm it but prior to that it
55:10doesn't get alarmed
55:12okay
55:13so
55:14you hear you from your when your father
55:16exits you hear the door open because you
55:18hear your daughter and then i can hear
55:20like the outside noises
55:22okay
55:23it's like the wind
55:24coming in and i just hear my dad
55:27i think
55:32you think that he's sustaining some kind
55:34of injury because he's not you can't
55:35understand what he's saying
55:37okay
55:38what about do you can you hear your mom
55:42okay
55:44where does your dad go do you know where
55:46you never see your dad again until when
55:47we're at the hospital i think that's
55:49what you said right
55:50i saw him when he was on the grenade but
55:53the officers
55:54walked me around
55:56so i really didn't
55:58okay so now you're upstairs and you're
56:00on the phone with the 911 operator
56:03okay
56:04you remain on the phone until the police
56:06arrived
56:08and the officer is the one who cuts gets
56:11you free
56:13he first had to secure the place yes it
56:15took me a while to get somebody upstairs
56:18okay
56:20and kept screaming
56:23okay and um
56:26i guess they went into my bedroom and i
56:27have a pair of scissors that i cut my
56:28hair with yes and they said that they
56:31cut it for me but
56:33it was still a while longer until after
56:35they cut
56:36the string so that i could be free do
56:38you understand that they
56:39of the importance to clear that what
56:41they were doing it wasn't to leave you
56:42in any kind of trauma or anything like
56:44that
56:46did
56:49it's a very tough question considering
56:50all the things that you've gone through
56:52tonight jennifer is
56:54any of the tying up any of the binding
56:56any other things were you sexually
56:58assaulted in any way
57:00it wasn't that this was strictly they
57:03were after money
57:04it from what i saw they were after money
57:07they wanted it now
57:09how much money did you turn over to them
57:14from my personal i had about
57:182500 2500
57:20and where was that and where was that in
57:23my nightstand underneath the tv okay
57:26and that was from work that you had done
57:28yeah what do you do for a living now
57:30what are you doing right now i heard you
57:31were saying about piano are you in
57:32school i i recently lost all my students
57:36in piano i had a few yes for a while
57:39but they've gone on to university that's
57:41why as of september i didn't have any
57:43more students so you were a piano
57:45instructor yes out of my home okay just
57:47for family friends
57:49here and there
57:51um also my family needed me home for a
57:53while
57:55and i was doing some uh piano classes
57:57with a very good teacher of mine okay
58:01and i'm going back to school in january
58:03two
58:04to study biotechnology engineering okay
58:09um
58:11your parents
58:13are they known to keep large quantities
58:14of cash in their house
58:17do they have
58:19a large quantity of cash in their in
58:21their bank
58:23i wouldn't say that it was
58:26large
58:27enough to raise flags it's enough to pay
58:30bills
58:31okay
58:33my mom's very
58:35diligent on making sure just just enough
58:37just enough
58:38so she wouldn't carry around a lot of
58:41cash is what you're saying the only we
58:44we did just come back from vacation so
58:46we did have
58:48not a large sun but uh
58:50some that we couldn't we didn't spend
58:52over the season over in the states and
58:54when when did you go away on vacation
58:59it was the weekend my cousin got married
59:01on 10 10 10.
59:03okay and where did you go we went over
59:05to
59:06buffalo
59:08that's where the wedding was in buffalo
59:11well just within buffalo within the area
59:13of buffalo
59:14and when you say that you came back with
59:16a quantity cash how much money are we
59:18talking about
59:19at least 1100 in u.s funds that my mom
59:22was going to go to the bank
59:24and put it in immediately but
59:27um
59:28family circumstances
59:30that we've been dealing with when we got
59:31back
59:32so what are those family circumstances
59:34that you were dealing with when you came
59:36back
59:37well my mom's sister was in town for the
59:39weddings
59:40and then
59:42my mom the weekend after that wedding we
59:44took her to montreal
59:46for like one last visit before she went
59:48home to the uk to her son okay and then
59:51honestly i think probably a day or two
59:53after that
59:56my grandfather fell really ill
59:58and he went to the hospital
1:00:00and my mom and i were the two
1:00:03main people because my uncle doesn't
1:00:05drive so we were the ones driving in and
1:00:07out all the time so is this your mom's
1:00:10father
1:00:11okay
1:00:12um
1:00:15so that eleven hundred dollars did it
1:00:16get taken tonight
1:00:18i believe so and where would i where
1:00:20would that have been
1:00:21in my mom's bedside table
1:00:23and
1:00:24you said you saw them did they go into
1:00:26that bedside table
1:00:29um and then was that the second time
1:00:30that you when they were upstairs and
1:00:32they were looking for your father's
1:00:33wallet while they're learning from my
1:00:34father's wallet they flip
1:00:36flip the bed off and they're like oh you
1:00:38didn't you missed that drawer
1:00:42number one told number two you missed
1:00:43the drawer so he number one was the one
1:00:45that leaned over and pulled it open
1:00:48okay you guys are inside the bedroom
1:00:50i was just at the doorway of the bedroom
1:00:52okay
1:00:53so in where in relation to this bedroom
1:00:56and where is this is very tight very
1:00:58tight space okay so he he could stay
1:01:00with you and still reach around and grab
1:01:02this and open this drawer and that's
1:01:03where he kind of pulled me with one hand
1:01:06closer yeah as he leaned over but it was
1:01:08close enough that you could
1:01:11maneuver
1:01:13okay
1:01:14and um so they grabbed that that
1:01:17american money
1:01:18you see it go
1:01:20i saw him fold it and put it in his
1:01:22bucket okay and
1:01:26did that seem to agitate them did you
1:01:28see any change in behavior after
1:01:30after that
1:01:32there like there has to be more
1:01:37who's saying that
1:01:38number one is saying there has to be
1:01:40more
1:01:44do they look any anywhere else are they
1:01:46looking anywhere else
1:01:48not besides my mother's wallet still in
1:01:51my dad's wallet i don't even know if
1:01:52they got it but those two things that
1:01:55they wanted to see
1:01:56whatever happened down in the basement i
1:01:58think i tried to hear as much as i could
1:02:00but it was too many people
1:02:03and we have really freaky floors so it's
1:02:05when you're
1:02:06when they're in that room in inside the
1:02:08bedroom and now
1:02:10um is it lit any better
1:02:12you know so it's still all in darkness
1:02:16so you still can't see if number two has
1:02:18got gloves on or not no they
1:02:20they had
1:02:22like something blind me like they number
1:02:24one once when we first got in the room
1:02:26the light was on
1:02:28and he's like hold on and he grabbed i
1:02:30don't remember what he grabbed jacket or
1:02:32sleeve or something and he kind of like
1:02:35shielded
1:02:36me with it and that's when he took my
1:02:37glasses and he like tossed them
1:02:42so he took your glasses off
1:02:44okay how did you get your glasses back i
1:02:46asked the officer okay
1:02:49and how bad are your eyes with your
1:02:50glasses off
1:02:52degree wise i'm about
1:02:55high four i think 475 and 525 okay so
1:02:58you have with your glasses off it's
1:03:01difficult for you to see things right i
1:03:03can see shapes but no definition but
1:03:06prior to all of this
1:03:09you had your glasses on
1:03:11so when you described the gun and you
1:03:12described the dreadlocks you described
1:03:14number two
1:03:16what about when you saw the revolver did
1:03:18you have your glasses on at that point
1:03:19in time so all of these observations are
1:03:21made with your glasses it's not until
1:03:22you're tied upstairs you're you know
1:03:25they're right before they tied me to the
1:03:26banister
1:03:27like when we went the stairs the second
1:03:30time okay and who ties you to the
1:03:31banister
1:03:33uh
1:03:34i'm not sure if number two held number
1:03:36one
1:03:36but it was behind me i'm not sure who
1:03:39did the time but number two goes
1:03:41downstairs to get the string yeah to tie
1:03:43tie you up and brings it up and brings
1:03:45it up
1:03:46from this
1:03:47cuz
1:03:48and you're sure it's cuz like cousin
1:03:50because
1:03:51i'm assuming no i'm not saying that
1:03:53that's what it is but it's on that line
1:03:55of cuz yes hotel
1:03:58okay
1:04:00and again that's number one who's saying
1:04:01this
1:04:06is there any reason
1:04:08to suspect or anything that's happened
1:04:10in the recent weeks leading up
1:04:14that would
1:04:15have you guys be
1:04:17a target of some type of incident like
1:04:19this
1:04:21you live a straightforward
1:04:23kind of almost routine life
1:04:25where is your brother right now even
1:04:27well he's right now he's here
1:04:30but does he live with you guys
1:04:32he in the summer time he goes back in
1:04:34september normally end of august
1:04:37goes back to school okay he moves out
1:04:39there
1:04:40what school is he at
1:04:42mcmasters
1:04:43and
1:04:44um what year is he in
1:04:48third year i believe third year of what
1:04:50type of program engineering engineering
1:04:53um so
1:04:55there's nothing
1:04:58there's no
1:05:00it's because of important you know like
1:05:02there are places where there's a legal
1:05:04gambling going on where people think
1:05:05there's large quantities of money what
1:05:08in your opinion would cause people to
1:05:10target
1:05:11your house to think there was a large
1:05:13quantity of money
1:05:15i'm not sure
1:05:17now you say your mom drives a lexus
1:05:20it could be because of the aesthetics
1:05:22yes what about your dad he drives a
1:05:24mercedes and he loves that baby
1:05:26is that right
1:05:27so your mom drives a lexus your dad
1:05:29drives a mercedes
1:05:31um
1:05:32the area you live in
1:05:34you know what's the square footage of
1:05:35your house do you have any idea
1:05:392100 2100.
1:05:42um
1:05:44and the only thing that happened tonight
1:05:46that happens every monday night
1:05:49is your mom goes to dance
1:05:51and you think it's at st paul's
1:05:54and that would have been in the birch
1:05:55mountain finch area
1:05:57southwest corner
1:06:00she goes there at what time
1:06:02she leaves the house at seven picks up
1:06:05her friend on like right off of kennedy
1:06:08yes
1:06:09and i believe she starts at 7 30
1:06:12to about nine
1:06:14and then she's usually home around 9 30.
1:06:17usually home around 9 30 and so nothing
1:06:19was any different tonight other than the
1:06:21fact that she may have been home a
1:06:22little bit earlier than that is that
1:06:24right i think you said nine feet not my
1:06:25father
1:06:26after work
1:06:28that was the only difference
1:06:30your father being late uh because coming
1:06:32home after work and what time did he
1:06:34arrive home
1:06:36sorry we still haven't updated all our
1:06:38clocks on the daylight savings but i
1:06:40think around 4 30 or so
1:06:43normally he'll be home by
1:06:44ten to four
1:06:46okay so four thirties and does he leave
1:06:48does he go for the rest of the night or
1:06:49is he in well he came home and then
1:06:52oh he went with his my uncle yeah my
1:06:55uncle i don't know where they went
1:06:57um all i know is that he came back with
1:06:59a heat
1:07:02vent i don't know he bought something
1:07:04for the heat
1:07:05okay he said his he doesn't like how the
1:07:08draft comes up he likes it to be focused
1:07:10oh so it's like a heat deflector yeah
1:07:12okay for like that
1:07:14the heating elements on the floor okay
1:07:16the registers yes
1:07:18okay so and what time does he get back
1:07:22i had finished eating
1:07:25he probably got back around six
1:07:29six fifteen
1:07:30six or six fifteen does he go out again
1:07:32no
1:07:33is he on the computer for the for uh i
1:07:35mean
1:07:36what is what is after dinner he eat
1:07:37dinner first what does he do on the
1:07:38computer
1:07:39he reads vietnamese news
1:07:42and vietnamese
1:07:44soaps i guess
1:07:46and your mother you believe comes home
1:07:48at 9 30 like normal
1:07:50around that time more or less there's
1:07:52nothing unusual about her time of coming
1:07:54home
1:07:54and it's
1:07:5710 to 15 minutes later that you hear the
1:07:59noises you hear the different voices
1:08:03i'd say
1:08:04maybe a little later it could be of
1:08:06course ready
1:08:11it could have been 45
1:08:13is there any way of finding out for sure
1:08:15where your mom where you where this
1:08:17place was that they did dancing tonight
1:08:20um i believe my
1:08:22cousin might have gone with her
1:08:24okay
1:08:26it might be very important for us to
1:08:27find it exactly where she was where this
1:08:29was tonight
1:08:30okay
1:08:32um
1:08:35you just sit tight for a minute okay and
1:08:37think think about anything else that you
1:08:38can that might help us in this we've
1:08:41gone through a lot of the details and
1:08:45i just want to talk i just want to talk
1:08:47to the the officer who's monitoring it
1:08:50and i also want to talk to the lead
1:08:51investigator just to see if there's
1:08:52anything else i need to ask you about
1:08:55you've explained the scissors which were
1:08:56found
1:08:57upstairs in the area they were used that
1:08:59you would cut your hair but an officer
1:09:00came and brought them to you to cut you
1:09:02free
1:09:03okay is that correct
1:09:05okay
1:09:08did you ever go down into the basement
1:09:10no where did you go i went to the
1:09:12basement earlier in the night when i was
1:09:14with my friend watching movies no no i
1:09:16mean uh during that during the time and
1:09:18who is over watching movies with you
1:09:20what's her name oh his name is his name
1:09:22adrian and adrian's last name kim kavit
1:09:24think of it tink of its and where does
1:09:26adrian live he lives on
1:09:28birch mountain no
1:09:30sir brimley brimley and finch brimley
1:09:33and finch
1:09:34okay and how long have you known adrian
1:09:35for
1:09:36more than 10 15 years so this is a kind
1:09:39of a regular occurrence for you guys
1:09:41yeah we meet up once a week if not once
1:09:43a month depending on how busy our lives
1:09:45are yeah and we sit and we watch our
1:09:47usual shows
1:09:48okay
1:09:49so that that was uh that's what happened
1:09:51tonight and what time did adrian leave
1:09:53at
1:09:54nine
1:09:55at nine ten to nine nine o'clock
1:09:57okay
1:09:58and edward is who you're on the phone
1:10:00with yes okay until you got off the
1:10:02phone because of the noises did you tell
1:10:04edward what was going on no i just i
1:10:06basically just told him
1:10:08i gotta go i'll call you later
1:10:10okay
1:10:11do you know what show you were watching
1:10:12when this was going on would you tat on
1:10:15the tv sorry multitasking i was watching
1:10:17gossip girl
1:10:19and then i was watching uh kate plus
1:10:20eight okay
1:10:21it's just the time what we're doing is
1:10:23to time stamp things right not only the
1:10:25phone and whatever else
1:10:27now as part of
1:10:29the investigation we have your cell
1:10:30phone right now
1:10:33we're going to ask you if you would
1:10:34consent to
1:10:35to your phone records to help us on the
1:10:38investigation and that will again that's
1:10:39part of the time stamping of things you
1:10:42know of who you're on the phone with who
1:10:43you're talking to and when this happened
1:10:45i just don't
1:10:46like i talk to people on the phone but i
1:10:48don't really want them to know what's
1:10:49happening with my
1:10:51unfortunate the unfortunate thing is
1:10:53that probably edward
1:10:55and adrian are people who were probably
1:10:58going to be interviewed because they
1:10:59were in the house and then and they were
1:11:01on the phone with you so
1:11:03as much and i'm telling you that you
1:11:05know the media is going to be um
1:11:08around this case
1:11:10and and um
1:11:12that's that you know like we have no
1:11:14control over what they say and what they
1:11:16do my only advice to you is don't read
1:11:18the papers and turn the tvs off
1:11:21right
1:11:22um they may not they may come and go and
1:11:24very quietly disappear because something
1:11:26else pops onto their radar
1:11:28but
1:11:30you know home invasion type robbery
1:11:32where someone is murdered can become
1:11:35very big news and people
1:11:37wear this stuff you know they hang on it
1:11:40so
1:11:41for the next little next
1:11:43five to seven days i would say that tell
1:11:45your friends and your well your family
1:11:48it's of no value for you to be listening
1:11:50to the news or reading about this stuff
1:11:52okay because it's just going to upset
1:11:55you even more than what you've done what
1:11:57you feel right now
1:11:58so just bear with me for a minute okay
1:12:00i'm going to go on it maybe a little bit
1:12:02longer than a minute i'm just going to
1:12:03go and talk to
1:12:04the officer who's monitoring it to see
1:12:06if there's any clarification
1:12:08clarification questions and also the guy
1:12:10who's investigating it if there's
1:12:12something else when i brief him if
1:12:13there's something else i should be
1:12:14asking you about okay
1:12:17and we're close to being we're very
1:12:18close to being done
1:12:56so
1:15:58so
1:16:16so
1:17:25hey
1:18:07shhh
1:18:18so
1:18:46so
1:20:00g
1:20:54uh
1:21:36so
1:21:44uh
1:22:22she
1:22:28so
1:23:12so
1:25:48so
1:28:04hmm
1:29:54so
1:30:25so
1:31:36uh
1:32:53okay sorry have a seat
1:32:55we got uh just a couple more questions
1:32:58we're gonna give your phone back to you
1:33:00okay
1:33:01and uh your brother is just being
1:33:03interviewed next door
1:33:06yeah well just because you never know
1:33:08right any other fringe stuff that comes
1:33:09up it's uh just more of an
1:33:11administration but
1:33:13obviously
1:33:14the relevant people to be interviewed in
1:33:16my opinion
1:33:18right now are who your mom was with
1:33:22right after
1:33:23like when she went to this line dancing
1:33:25or this dancing
1:33:26so we can clarify where it was
1:33:29and you know
1:33:31like i'm 90 sure that it's there okay it
1:33:34doesn't take a rocket scientist to
1:33:36figure out that could she have
1:33:39drawn them here from where she was
1:33:41because of the type of car she's driving
1:33:44and where she's driving to it's it's
1:33:46very positive it's something that we
1:33:47obviously have to explore so how am i
1:33:49going to find out who she was with
1:33:51tonight
1:33:52um
1:33:53i don't have her number
1:33:56at home um
1:33:57is there a way on your phone
1:34:00can you use your phone to find that to
1:34:02find out who's the people she was with
1:34:04tonight
1:34:05i could ask for my uncles and ask them
1:34:08for that girl's number okay
1:34:11one of his nieces
1:34:13we're gonna need i'm gonna ask you to do
1:34:15that okay if you can do that for us um
1:34:17who who are you with what phone service
1:34:19are you with rogers with rogers
1:34:21okay we're going to prepare a consent
1:34:24for you for the phone records
1:34:27and then um i'm going to
1:34:30give your phone back i'm going to ask
1:34:32you to call
1:34:34what this uncle okay
1:34:36so that we can find out where where she
1:34:38went who she was with and where she went
1:34:40tonight
1:34:42because we need to obviously find out
1:34:45confirm where it was
1:34:47and confirm who she was where and if
1:34:49there was any problems
1:34:51okay
1:34:52um
1:34:54the the cars how many cars
1:34:57yes
1:35:01oh thank you
1:35:02thanks
1:35:06you want to check to make sure that's
1:35:07your phone yeah
1:35:12are you the are you the owner of that
1:35:14phone are you the on on the plan is it
1:35:16under your name
1:35:18okay
1:35:21i just asked them to put uh two initials
1:35:23on because i just
1:35:25um
1:35:26like caller id when i call in it's not
1:35:29my name it's not your name but it's
1:35:30still your phone and you use this
1:35:33okay what's your cellular phone number
1:35:38six four seven
1:35:426
1:35:435
1:35:442 1 1 8.
1:36:15because these things come in
1:36:17in
1:36:21in batches i'm just going to extend the
1:36:23time period
1:36:41just because i i give it a from the
1:36:43first to the ninth because they have
1:36:45they may even give us more time it's
1:36:46just the way that the information comes
1:36:48off of their reading okay but i'll
1:36:50explain that to you
1:36:57i'm sorry your mom's first name
1:37:00b-i-c-h separate word b-i-c-h
1:37:04h separate word h
1:37:06h a
1:37:08pen
1:37:28so
1:37:37so
1:37:59my question is how far deep into this
1:38:02well i look for my phone
1:38:04just like comment like regular phone
1:38:06calls to people stuff like that
1:38:09really it's just the time stamping of of
1:38:11the
1:38:12you know we we're putting nine days down
1:38:15because it may come back to you that um
1:38:17oh i spoke to him and it may be able for
1:38:19us to be able to identify people that we
1:38:21may need to go back and interview
1:38:23the the interest of us is obviously
1:38:25tonight between
1:38:28nine and ten right
1:38:31um but we're just asking for this we're
1:38:33not asking for months and months and
1:38:35months it's nine days that we're asking
1:38:37for and generally it's because we may
1:38:39come back to you and say okay we want to
1:38:41interview
1:38:43this person and you go
1:38:46i don't know where they live
1:38:48but i spoke to them
1:38:49or we've got the phone records this is
1:38:51the same person and we'll have their
1:38:52address at least what is registered to
1:38:54their phone so it's the only reason
1:38:56we're asking for a nine-day period okay
1:38:58there's no investigatively it's it's
1:39:01it's not of no real significant value
1:39:03other than
1:39:04today right
1:39:07it's only because sometimes i phone you
1:39:08know teachers
1:39:10no we're not going to go back and
1:39:11interview all those people that's not
1:39:13our intention right um
1:39:15so
1:39:17i need you to fill out
1:39:19this portion for me
1:39:21so owner
1:39:23subscriber
1:39:24it's the same person
1:39:26as this so it's you and you
1:39:29your address
1:39:31the telephone number
1:39:33and um
1:39:34in today's date
1:39:36and then your signature
1:39:37and what it is is before we go into it
1:39:39it's all this is all being recorded
1:39:41again so it's just that you can send to
1:39:43giving us the records for cell phone
1:39:45number six four seven nine six five two
1:39:48one one eight
1:39:49um
1:39:50and you can send to allow the york
1:39:51regional police to access the phone
1:39:53records
1:39:54the said cellular phone company
1:39:56authorized rogers
1:40:03for the following billing records
1:40:05incoming and outcoming numbers dialed
1:40:07registered owner information including
1:40:09credit and payment history this is
1:40:10really how we link phones to people how
1:40:12we confirm that your phone
1:40:14and the tower site location if requested
1:40:16for the above mentioned times and dates
1:40:18and towers now become uh i just dropped
1:40:22that towers become relevant in this case
1:40:24because of where you are when the phone
1:40:25call comes in on the on today's date
1:40:27right is that it firms your story to
1:40:30saying that i was in my room when i made
1:40:32that when the calls came in
1:40:35and
1:40:37that will show up on the tower site
1:40:38information that's the relevance of the
1:40:40terror site information it also may turn
1:40:42out that maybe during this time period
1:40:45you were targeted
1:40:47and you were in an area and this enables
1:40:50us to go back and try and look for
1:40:52cameras and other things through the
1:40:54towers i'm not saying it's going to
1:40:56happen in your case but it's why we ask
1:40:57for tower sites right tower sites always
1:41:00show when you're on the phone they show
1:41:01you where you're where you are when
1:41:02you're on the phone making calls
1:41:04um
1:41:06and that the above mentioned records
1:41:07will be released for the york region to
1:41:09the york regional police for the
1:41:10purposes of an investigation of murder
1:41:12of your mum
1:41:13and for the time period as stated
1:41:15november 1st to november 9th
1:41:18this is the part of the consent
1:41:20i am voluntarily giving consent and i
1:41:23know that you don't have to you don't
1:41:24have to do this this is your this is you
1:41:26volunteering to do this
1:41:28you may withdraw your consent at any
1:41:30time
1:41:31i understand that these records may be
1:41:32used as evidence against me and may
1:41:34become any part of a criminal proceeding
1:41:36now if you're relying on this you know
1:41:38as a part of this whole process that i
1:41:40explained telling us fictitious
1:41:42information it comes back now the
1:41:44records can also be used against you if
1:41:45you're telling the truth
1:41:48really point three it means nothing okay
1:41:51but we have to let you know by law that
1:41:53we could use these against you if you're
1:41:55lying to us
1:41:56and in consideration for rogers uh dis
1:41:59wireless
1:42:03disclosing the records of the identified
1:42:05person above i hereby release and
1:42:06discharge rogers
1:42:12and its employees from any uh liability
1:42:14whatsoever in regard to disclosure so
1:42:16this is what the phone companies have
1:42:17asked us to say that
1:42:19because we're giving you this thing you
1:42:21can't use you can't the people who we
1:42:23got it from can't come and sue us
1:42:25so it's a it's a preamble legal preamble
1:42:30and by doing this by
1:42:34okay the owner subscriber
1:42:36printing your name you sign here you
1:42:37print your name your address
1:42:39your subscriber number and the date and
1:42:41i sign with the witnesses to state that
1:42:43i witness this
1:42:44and then
1:42:46i'm going to ask you
1:42:48after this to try and contact that
1:42:50cousin to get us the name of the people
1:42:51who were with your mom tonight
1:43:23yeah yeah markham yeah you'd mark them
1:43:25ontario just to state
1:43:50today is now the 9th of november
1:44:00and i'm going to sign to witness it
1:44:04so will you will we be in will i be
1:44:07informed of who of my
1:44:09if anybody if they're contacted on that
1:44:12um
1:44:14the chances are if you're gonna be so
1:44:16you can almost guarantee that adrian and
1:44:18edward are gonna be we're going to need
1:44:19to speak to them
1:44:20right
1:44:21because adrian was in your house
1:44:23remember
1:44:25if they're doing forensic testing in
1:44:27your house to try and get dna and
1:44:29anything else in there they're also
1:44:30going to need stuff to eliminate people
1:44:32right so adrian was in your house
1:44:35so we need to try and if you when when
1:44:38we shut this down
1:44:40i'm gonna because it doesn't need to be
1:44:41disclosed on video about their personal
1:44:43information i need to get adrian's
1:44:46contact information i need to get
1:44:47edward's contact information
1:44:50i don't know if we're going to contact
1:44:51them to tonight or this morning but
1:44:53sometime today they're going to be
1:44:54spoken to
1:44:55okay
1:44:56[Music]
1:44:58our priority is who is with your mom
1:45:00that's our priority right now
1:45:02okay
1:45:03um but i i just tweaked me back how many
1:45:06cars do your fish your family own
1:45:09the mercedes and alexis and where do
1:45:11your parents park these cars my dad
1:45:13always parks it on the right and my mom
1:45:15always parks on the left inside the
1:45:17garage
1:45:19and when they where do they enter the
1:45:20house when they're when they park in the
1:45:22garage is there an entrance through the
1:45:23garage
1:45:24okay so that's the normal course as they
1:45:26park
1:45:27unless we plan on going out somewhere
1:45:31we leave the car in the driveway instead
1:45:33of having to
1:45:34go through the garage when you left
1:45:36today left tonight after this incident
1:45:38it happened did you see the cars in the
1:45:40garage
1:45:41i did not but i believe as one of the
1:45:44officers went and checked and said that
1:45:46the cars were still in the garage the
1:45:48garage doors were closed yes
1:45:50okay
1:45:54is there any video equipment video
1:45:56cameras or any video system on you in
1:45:58your house
1:45:59to record
1:46:00no
1:46:02okay
1:46:03is there anything else that you can
1:46:04think of that might help us right now
1:46:07in this investigation
1:46:14not off the top of my head
1:46:16okay so i'm gonna
1:46:19okay
1:46:20so you know what you told us has been
1:46:22under oath um
1:46:23i'm just making sure did you swear in a
1:46:25bible yes it was under
1:46:27um is there anything you want to change
1:46:33is there anything else i should know to
1:46:35fully understand your statement
1:46:38suffer from
1:46:39this is one of those things that people
1:46:41say well i'm uh i'm schizophrenic i just
1:46:43didn't tell you or i suffer from mental
1:46:45illness or delusions or
1:46:47i'm actually an alcoholic and uh
1:46:50none of these things affect you
1:46:53you're competent and this was completely
1:46:55voluntary and you've told us everything
1:46:57you need to the best of your ability
1:47:02okay
1:47:04so what i'm gonna get i'm gonna it is
1:47:06now 4 30 in the morning i'm going to
1:47:08shut everything off and then we're going
1:47:10to have you try and find those that that
1:47:12information for us okay so the
1:47:14recordings now
1:47:15are turned off
1:47:18i'm going to make sure that um
1:47:20that next door the recording's off
1:47:23of course you can use a washer
1:48:30okay jennifer i'm gonna explain this
1:48:32sworn video statement form um and as
1:48:35i've we're now being recorded
1:48:38this is not new to you we've done this
1:48:39once before okay
1:48:41i want to take
1:48:43before we get this try and take that
1:48:45first interview that we had
1:48:48which was you know hours after what what
1:48:50had transpired put it aside it's almost
1:48:52like we've never spoken before okay so
1:48:55we're starting to fresh we're starting
1:48:56from new that way you're not gonna say i
1:48:59think i already told them that don't
1:49:00worry about what you've already told me
1:49:02so
1:49:04this is a statement of jennifer pan and
1:49:07the incident number is uh
1:49:09for the murder investigation is
1:49:11310188 of 2010.
1:49:14jennifer do you ever do you understand
1:49:15that everything that's being said in
1:49:17this room is being videotaped
1:49:19yes
1:49:21okay my name is uh randy slade and i'm a
1:49:23detective with the york regional police
1:49:25my badge number is 531
1:49:27there's no one else present in the room
1:49:29other than you and i and monitoring this
1:49:31statement next to us is
1:49:33deborah gladding
1:49:39today is thursday november the 11th
1:49:412010.
1:49:43the time on my watch is 9 43
1:49:48in the morning we are presently
1:49:50videotaping at five district in the town
1:49:52of markham
1:49:54in the regionals paladiy of york um is
1:49:56there anything
1:49:58we're back to this question again about
1:49:59is there anything else i need to know in
1:50:01order to better understand your
1:50:02statement and that is do you suffer from
1:50:04any mental illness have you been
1:50:05drinking did you take any drugs
1:50:08no drugs no drinking so there's nothing
1:50:10that's going to influence your statement
1:50:18i'm just a little nervous
1:50:21don't be nervous
1:50:23okay i i know that's tough to say but
1:50:25don't be nervous
1:50:27the truth
1:50:28is always
1:50:29the best way to relieve anxiety okay
1:50:34we're investigating an allegation
1:50:36of the
1:50:38murder
1:50:43of your mom
1:50:45[ __ ]
1:50:45pan
1:50:47as a part of our investigation of the
1:50:48fest if offense i would like to
1:50:51interview on videotape and under oath
1:50:53solemn affirmation or solemn declaration
1:50:56it is my obligation to advise you of
1:50:58certain information before we commence
1:51:00this statement
1:51:02just want to
1:51:07redundant remember me telling you about
1:51:09that
1:51:13so just to reiterate uh we're in the
1:51:15middle are starting the middle portion
1:51:17of the video kgb i've just turned on my
1:51:19digital audio recorder just just in case
1:51:21for fail-safe measures
1:51:23it's now 9 45. we began the video
1:51:26statement portion at 9 43
1:51:28and i'm just at the portion of the video
1:51:30statement form
1:51:33jennifer can you spell your name for me
1:51:35j-e-n-n-i-f-e-r
1:51:38and last name p-a-n okay so it's my
1:51:41obligation to advise you of certain
1:51:43information before we commence this
1:51:45statement
1:51:46you may be a witness in court concerning
1:51:47the events you're about to describe in
1:51:49your statement if at any time you change
1:51:51your statement or claim not to remember
1:51:52the events the contents of this video
1:51:54statement you give now may be used as
1:51:56evidence in court do you understand yes
1:52:02and for the audio recording just to date
1:52:04it it's the 11th of november and i
1:52:05already said 9 45.
1:52:07um
1:52:09[Music]
1:52:11these are the criminal code sanctions
1:52:13remember i told you the explaining of
1:52:14the of the facts of that there's certain
1:52:17penalties for not telling the truth or
1:52:19misleading the police
1:52:21it's also my obligation to advise you
1:52:23that fabricating evidence with the
1:52:25intent to mislead is an offense under
1:52:27section 137 of the criminal code and if
1:52:29you give a false statement under oath
1:52:31you may be charged with fabricating
1:52:33evidence if convicted of fabricating
1:52:35evidence you could be sentenced up to 14
1:52:36years in jail
1:52:38it is also an offence under section 139
1:52:40of the criminal code to obstruct by
1:52:42willfully attempting to obstruct pervert
1:52:44or defeat the course of justice
1:52:46and you may be charged if you obstruct
1:52:48justice if convicted of obstructing
1:52:49justice you could be sentenced up to 10
1:52:51years in jail
1:52:53it is also an offense under section 140
1:52:55of the criminal code to commit public
1:52:57mischief by causing a police officer to
1:52:59start or continue an investigation by
1:53:01making a false statement that accuses
1:53:03some other person of committing an
1:53:04offense and you may be charged if you
1:53:06commit public mischief if convicted a
1:53:08public mischief you could be sentenced
1:53:10up to five years in jail
1:53:12if you were charged with one or more of
1:53:14the above offenses this statement may be
1:53:16used as evidence against you do you
1:53:18understand the criminal sanctions i've
1:53:19explained to you
1:53:23do you understand the criminal
1:53:24consequences of making a false statement
1:53:26yes
1:53:28do you understand that it's your choice
1:53:29to get whether or not you want to give a
1:53:31statement yes
1:53:34do you understand the importance of
1:53:35telling truth in regards to this
1:53:36investigation
1:53:40if you've spoken to a police officer any
1:53:42person in authority in connection with
1:53:43his investigation i want it to clearly
1:53:45understood i don't want it to influence
1:53:47you in making a statement do you
1:53:48understand that yes
1:53:50do you have any questions
1:53:53no
1:53:55are you prepared to give a video
1:53:56statement under oath or solomon africa
1:53:58sorry solemn affirmation or declaration
1:54:01at this time yes
1:54:03okay i'm just going to bring the
1:54:04commissioner in
1:54:05and then we can get on with it
1:54:12[Music]
1:54:16hello
1:54:17i'm sonia faccini i'm a commissioner and
1:54:19i'm just going to swear you in for your
1:54:20statement okay
1:54:22will you be swearing on the bible or
1:54:24were you okay
1:54:26just place your right hand there please
1:54:32and your first name is jennifer yes last
1:54:35name of pan yes okay
1:54:38do you jennifer penn
1:54:39swear declare that the evidence that you
1:54:41give in this investigation shall be the
1:54:43truth the whole truth and nothing but
1:54:45the truth so help you god yes
1:54:59okay thank you
1:55:01thank you
1:55:10okay
1:55:12so
1:55:14what we're going to do now is as i said
1:55:17what what education level do you have
1:55:19just a high school high school have you
1:55:21gone to any other qrik like after school
1:55:24a higher level of education have you
1:55:26been working towards anything uh i'm
1:55:28going back to school and i have been
1:55:29working on the piano education okay
1:55:32there's no other education that you've
1:55:34sought like you haven't gone to
1:55:34university at this point in time
1:55:37okay so
1:55:40i want
1:55:42i want you
1:55:45to forget
1:55:47or put aside the first statement that we
1:55:49had talked about
1:55:50okay
1:55:52this is going to be
1:55:54where i'm going to ask you to start from
1:55:55the day
1:55:57okay
1:55:58on
1:55:58the 8th
1:56:00leading up until when you when the
1:56:02police become involved in an incident
1:56:04that takes place in your house i want
1:56:06you to tell me about your day what you
1:56:07do your interaction with your parents
1:56:10okay
1:56:11so we're at what we are is we're dealing
1:56:13with the incident we're not dealing with
1:56:14your history right now we're dealing
1:56:16with the incident again see if anything
1:56:18else comes
1:56:19forgetting what you've already told me
1:56:22and bring yourself through that day and
1:56:24through the event
1:56:26and we'll see if we're going to see if
1:56:27we've learned or if you've remembered
1:56:29anything else
1:56:30and there's some questions with respect
1:56:32to that uh statement that i'm going to
1:56:34ask you about okay but i'm going to let
1:56:36you start again and and let's let's move
1:56:39forward from any time in that day where
1:56:41you want to start if it's the time you
1:56:42woke up or if it's the time that your
1:56:44first interaction it's your choice okay
1:56:46i'm just
1:56:48i'm very nervous and i
1:56:50why are you let's why are you why are
1:56:52you nervous tell me about why you're
1:56:53nervous
1:56:54because i don't want to say the wrong
1:56:57things
1:56:58oh so
1:56:59that day was
1:57:01a lot
1:57:02you're right and i've been
1:57:06scattered and so bits and pieces are
1:57:08here and some pieces aren't here and
1:57:12i'm just so
1:57:14i want you to sit back in your chair
1:57:16okay just sit back in your chair
1:57:18take a deep breath
1:57:20okay close your eyes just follow my line
1:57:23just sit back in the chair for a second
1:57:24sit back
1:57:26relax is the best you can
1:57:29close your eyes
1:57:33and just breathe for a minute
1:57:35okay
1:57:44we're not in any type of danger
1:57:46we're nowhere we're in a very safe place
1:57:49okay
1:57:53and we're going to work through this and
1:57:54don't worry about what you forget or
1:57:56what you mix up or whatever you're doing
1:57:59is
1:58:01you start and pluck push the play button
1:58:03for that day
1:58:05and if you stick to
1:58:07everything that you remember happening
1:58:09that day it will come out in sequence
1:58:12okay and i'm going to show you a
1:58:14technique after we go through this that
1:58:15was that will show it to you okay
1:58:18so let's just start you've taken a deep
1:58:20breath you've relaxed you're in a good
1:58:22position right there
1:58:24let's start from the beginning of the
1:58:25day when you wake up and let's start
1:58:27moving forward from there
1:58:31what i can remember
1:58:32is i woke up
1:58:35i had some breakfast
1:58:38and i went upstairs to do some piano
1:58:40history and i was on the computer
1:58:43what time is that around
1:58:50i'm not a hundred percent sure time
1:58:52isn't like is it you know time is
1:58:54important meaning is it
1:58:55is it in the beginning of the is it
1:58:57morning is the light out is in the
1:58:59afternoon like
1:59:01maybe before noon before noon sometime
1:59:04before noon yes okay before noon
1:59:07um
1:59:09i
1:59:10play some facebook games so i was doing
1:59:12that and then
1:59:14i stopped and then i was doing some
1:59:16studying for my piano like i said i was
1:59:19working towards a piano degree in
1:59:21teaching
1:59:22so i was
1:59:24reading some history notes and going
1:59:26over some practice examination papers
1:59:32who's in the house at that time my
1:59:34father has left for work and my mother's
1:59:35home okay where's your mom do you know
1:59:38where she is
1:59:45i don't remember at this point okay
1:59:47i'm
1:59:48getting the last
1:59:50few days all mixed up together gosh
1:59:53i believe she had left
1:59:56with my aunt to go and visit my
1:59:58grandfather that morning or early
2:00:01afternoon
2:00:02um he is residing
2:00:06sorry
2:00:08he reside resided at uh manchester
2:00:11nursing home and he had just gotten back
2:00:13from the hospital
2:00:16saturday
2:00:18so she went in
2:00:20i don't remember she took my aunt when
2:00:21she went in
2:00:22to see if she could
2:00:25see how the nurse
2:00:26the nurse got any updates on him and see
2:00:28if she could
2:00:29feed him
2:00:31when she had left she had
2:00:33called me
2:00:35and she asked me to come out because
2:00:38there were some police officers on the
2:00:39street
2:00:41and i went out and
2:00:43i asked the police officers came up
2:00:45and they said that there was a gas leak
2:00:47on our street
2:00:48and to exit our
2:00:51exit our house
2:00:53so i said if it would be possible could
2:00:55i go in and grab a jacket because i was
2:00:56still
2:00:57in just regular clothes
2:01:00so i went in and when i came out my
2:01:02mother said that they wouldn't let her
2:01:04take out the car either so we were gonna
2:01:06we decided to we were going to walk
2:01:08across the street to a relative's house
2:01:10there
2:01:12and before we could get to our
2:01:13relative's house
2:01:15the officers got a message or a memo
2:01:18from
2:01:18from their fellow officers saying that
2:01:21our side was secure and that it might be
2:01:23from another area
2:01:25so from there i went back into the house
2:01:27do you remember what time that was
2:01:30again it was before noon before noon
2:01:32okay i'm
2:01:34pretty sure it's before noon so before
2:01:36noon and now your mom's come back from
2:01:38no not yet she's on it she was leaving
2:01:41to go out okay
2:01:43so
2:01:44she
2:01:45left to go pick up my aunt and go in to
2:01:47my grandfather's and i went back up to
2:01:50on the computer to do a little studying
2:01:52taking a break and
2:01:54playing some games
2:02:01do you remember speaking to anyone
2:02:02during the day on your on your phone or
2:02:04on the on facebook um
2:02:09later on in the day yes i spoke to a
2:02:12long time friend andrew who i went to
2:02:13elementary school with
2:02:16but just the usual he
2:02:20he just asked if we could uh hang out
2:02:22anytime soon but i explained to him that
2:02:24i wasn't able to leave the house
2:02:27and i couldn't meet up with him so i
2:02:29asked him how his life was his
2:02:31girlfriend how his job was going
2:02:34um i believe that was later on in the
2:02:36day though that wasn't in the afternoon
2:02:38we'll go in later in the and when we
2:02:40talk about your past about why you
2:02:42couldn't leave the house okay so that
2:02:44isn't that hasn't gone unnoticed but
2:02:45we're not going to talk about that right
2:02:47now we're talking about that day
2:02:49so continue on
2:02:51um
2:02:52i think my mom came home at about
2:02:56three
2:02:57or so
2:02:58i'm not sure where she went with my aunt
2:03:01she uh
2:03:02came home and unpacked and started
2:03:05preparing dinner
2:03:08um
2:03:09my father came home
2:03:14my father came home about
2:03:174
2:03:1820 4 30. it was later than he usually
2:03:21does he normally comes home about 10 to
2:03:234.
2:03:24um when my mother asked him where he had
2:03:27been he had said he had forgotten to
2:03:30lock his toolbox at work or
2:03:33something about along the lines of he
2:03:35had to go back to her cause he had
2:03:36forgotten to
2:03:39close something or lock something up
2:03:41where does your dad work
2:03:42um
2:03:43kobe and style um
2:03:46it's middle field and
2:03:50south of finch okay
2:03:52continue so he comes he's home now late
2:03:54at 4 20 30 4 30 and he phoned and
2:03:58asked my uncle nam if he wanted to go to
2:04:01go buy some
2:04:03like heat covers and a usb pen
2:04:08so he immediately left not shortly after
2:04:10that maybe 4 30
2:04:12a little bit after that
2:04:14and on monday nights my mother goes
2:04:16dancing so
2:04:18she had finished dinner
2:04:20and
2:04:21me and her ate dinner first what time
2:04:23did you guys have dinner around
2:04:265 5 30.
2:04:28and
2:04:29then she had then my father came home
2:04:31and
2:04:32he had dinner and what time did your dad
2:04:34get home
2:04:38i
2:04:41i'd say sometime between 6 and 6 30
2:04:44because
2:04:45my mother was able to clean up before
2:04:47going out to dancing when your dad comes
2:04:49home do you remember seeing what type of
2:04:51bags he was carrying when he came in
2:04:53i wasn't downstairs when he came through
2:04:55the door i had gone upstairs already
2:04:58okay
2:04:59so you don't know where he went shopping
2:05:01at um all i know is that when i came
2:05:03down to greet him after he came home he
2:05:05had shown me this uh heating cover that
2:05:08he had bought for the house
2:05:10didn't have a label on it didn't he
2:05:12didn't he took it out of the bag or i
2:05:14don't he did he just showed me the
2:05:16the cover itself he didn't
2:05:19did you see the usb stick i believe the
2:05:21usb stick was for my uncle if they
2:05:23bought it or not i don't know i'm not
2:05:25sure okay so it's now
2:05:276 to 6 30 because your dad's now home
2:05:29and eating and your mom said you say
2:05:31your mom cleans up yeah and then she
2:05:33leaves at seven
2:05:34and my father goes up to his computer
2:05:37like he normally does yes and he's on
2:05:39the computer watching like news i'm not
2:05:41sure what he's doing
2:05:42i'm in my room
2:05:44well i believe at this point i had
2:05:46called my friend
2:05:48hang on let's make sure i got to make
2:05:50sure that the the tape recorders didn't
2:05:52just click off okay because we had a bit
2:05:54of a power flicker so just give me a
2:05:56second
2:06:03okay
2:06:04so we're still we're staying
2:06:09okay so we're at uh
2:06:11we're at seven o'clock
2:06:12right
2:06:13and your mom's getting ready to go
2:06:15so continue on
2:06:20so she leaves and i my friend adrian had
2:06:23asked if we would do our movie night
2:06:25like we normally do
2:06:27he comes over
2:06:28with tv shows
2:06:31uh some of our favorites to watch
2:06:33um together
2:06:36so he had come over i'm sorry i
2:06:39this
2:06:40the timeline's a little off
2:06:41he had come over around
2:06:44i think i told him i messaged him around
2:06:46six o'clock he came over about 6
2:06:4820 6 30. what did and when you say
2:06:51message him was it facebook or was it
2:06:52your phone text message and what was the
2:06:54phone which phone is it that you use
2:06:56which phone number uh
2:06:58my rogers your roger's phone
2:07:01647
2:07:03965 2118 okay so that's the message and
2:07:07is that the first communication you had
2:07:09with him that day i think i had messaged
2:07:11him at three o'clock you know he had
2:07:13messaged me around
2:07:14in the afternoon sometime asking me if
2:07:16it was tv was on tonight
2:07:18and then i had messaged him i'm done
2:07:20you can come over whenever
2:07:22i think that was just the message
2:07:25so what time does he arrive again
2:07:29between 6 and 6 30. so your mom and dad
2:07:31are both home my parents were home and
2:07:33he came in he greets them as usual they
2:07:36they
2:07:37ask him how
2:07:38everything was going
2:07:39and then my mom had left for uh dancing
2:07:42and we were downstairs watching
2:07:45um
2:07:48that day we watched
2:07:50gossip girl and how i met your mother
2:07:53um is this are these live tv shows or
2:07:55these recordings uh he
2:07:57he brings them on a usb pen okay
2:08:00when your mom leaves what is she wearing
2:08:03i didn't pay attention do you remember
2:08:05what she was wearing when you were
2:08:06having dinner
2:08:07she was wearing her pajamas when we were
2:08:09having dinner what do they look like
2:08:11um
2:08:12they're like green with like winnie the
2:08:14pooh
2:08:15okay
2:08:16um
2:08:18so when you say when she leaves to go
2:08:20out would she have changed yes because i
2:08:22was like i said my friend came around
2:08:24like 6 30 so we were already downstairs
2:08:27watching movies but when she went up to
2:08:30change quickly and go to her dance class
2:08:32at seven okay and what card does she
2:08:34take when she takes the alexis is that
2:08:36the only car she drives uh pretty much
2:08:38my father drives his mercedes and my
2:08:41mother drives the lexus
2:08:43do they have like parents have different
2:08:45kinds of routines do they have a routine
2:08:47where they park the car in the
2:08:49out of the garage
2:08:50normally inside but
2:08:52if we
2:08:53plan to go out again
2:08:55um
2:08:56we park our car outside but only the
2:08:59lexus so my mother when she came home
2:09:01from like i said going out with my aunt
2:09:03she had parked the car outside okay so
2:09:06when my friend came he parked it beside
2:09:08her
2:09:08okay
2:09:10closer to the door and where do they
2:09:12usually in the garage is there do they
2:09:13just take out either side or do they uh
2:09:15the lexus is normally on the
2:09:18when facing the house when looking at
2:09:20the house uh left side left side is
2:09:22alexis and the mercedes is on the right
2:09:24closer to the door okay no other cars in
2:09:27the house just
2:09:29just those two
2:09:30okay so your mom's
2:09:32goes did you see her change her clothes
2:09:35unfortunately i was watching
2:09:38i was just watching my tv and where were
2:09:40you watching in the basement in the
2:09:41basement
2:09:42so when you say that she's wearing her
2:09:45her pajamas
2:09:46and
2:09:48she goes upstairs and change is that
2:09:50something you know or you're speculating
2:09:52no for sure she has to change into
2:09:54regular clothes to go and go dancing
2:09:57that's something that
2:09:59i didn't see it but i know for sure that
2:10:01that's what she does okay so your mom
2:10:03goes and where's your dad at this point
2:10:05he is uh well like i said around 6 30 he
2:10:08was just finishing up dinner and after
2:10:10he finished dinner he went he goes
2:10:12upstairs and goes on the computer so
2:10:14let's talk about the layout of the house
2:10:15before we move on any further here
2:10:18you're in the basement yes okay
2:10:20um and it's just the two of you you and
2:10:23adrian yes
2:10:24the main level the ground level what's
2:10:26on the ground level
2:10:28um
2:10:29what we call our living dining room with
2:10:31my piano yes and then
2:10:34behind that is my
2:10:36family room okay and then beside the
2:10:38family room is our kitchen so
2:10:43are they in separate locations living
2:10:44room dining room or is it living is a
2:10:46dining room dining room by more than a
2:10:48half like a there's a wall but there is
2:10:51a way to walk from living room dining
2:10:53room living room are combined sorry okay
2:10:55but to go to the family room there's
2:10:57like a wall
2:10:59but there is like a
2:11:00um not a doorway but like a an archway
2:11:03opening yes to go through and the
2:11:05kitchen is where um
2:11:08in the front back side the back of the
2:11:11house the back of the house yes okay you
2:11:13go up the stairs what's what's on the
2:11:15stairs where what's upstairs how many
2:11:16bedrooms are up we have four bedrooms
2:11:18but one we use as a study and where's
2:11:21the study located that's the front of
2:11:23the house beside my parents uh
2:11:26my parents bedroom okay and where's your
2:11:28bedroom located um the ba uh the back of
2:11:31the house and is there another bedroom
2:11:33back there too uh there's one more
2:11:35bedroom back there and that's used for
2:11:37my brother or my cousin depending on who
2:11:40comes home
2:11:41okay
2:11:42your cousin who's
2:11:43his name is curtis and he goes to school
2:11:46in waterloo
2:11:49during co-op see the last co-op season
2:11:51he co-opted in toronto so he stayed with
2:11:53us for four months curtis's last name
2:11:58okay
2:11:59we'll get to curtis after so now we're
2:12:01back your your p your your dad is
2:12:03upstairs did you see him go to the
2:12:05computer room like i said you're
2:12:07speculating yes that's what his normal
2:12:09routine is that's his normal routine
2:12:11you're in the basement yes
2:12:13did you hear your mom leave or yes yes
2:12:16okay
2:12:17and how do your parents leave when
2:12:18they're taking their cars now this time
2:12:20you say the car was out in the driveway
2:12:21did you hear how did when you say you
2:12:23heard your mom leave how what what where
2:12:25did she go
2:12:26because uh where how the house is laid
2:12:29out the stairwell is in the middle of
2:12:31the house
2:12:32so she would have to walk
2:12:37she would have to walk across
2:12:39the stairs
2:12:41to go to the front door
2:12:43so i i heard her
2:12:45pass through okay and leave through the
2:12:47front door
2:12:49if you park your cars in your garage how
2:12:50do you get
2:12:51do they do your parents come close the
2:12:53door and come out and into the house or
2:12:55do they no if they
2:12:57park in the garage they come through
2:12:59there's an entrance from the garage to
2:13:01the house inside the garage how many
2:13:03ways are there to get into your house
2:13:04other than breaking a window like how
2:13:06many
2:13:07doorways three
2:13:08so there's well there's the there's a
2:13:10door from the garage yes um the front
2:13:13doorway and the
2:13:16backyard in the backyard
2:13:18okay
2:13:19so
2:13:20um
2:13:22it's now
2:13:23seven o'clock or beyond your mom's gone
2:13:25your dad's you believe upstairs in the
2:13:27computer room in the office and you're
2:13:29downstairs with adrian watching either
2:13:31the how i met your mother or
2:13:33gossip girls
2:13:34a few episodes
2:13:36do you talk to anyone or text message
2:13:38anyone throughout the time that you're
2:13:39with adrian no does adrian talk or text
2:13:42message anyone through it his phone
2:13:43wasn't i believe his phone was aside
2:13:46okay
2:13:47um
2:13:49and then what happens
2:13:51uh nine o'clock comes and he says after
2:13:53that final episode he watches like it's
2:13:55time for me to go home
2:13:57so i see him out and i went upstairs and
2:14:01got ready for bed
2:14:02okay
2:14:04and did you see your dad or hear your
2:14:05dad when you went upstairs when i went
2:14:07upstairs he was in his computer room
2:14:08like he normally is in on the computer
2:14:10at that point in time okay
2:14:13and your mom's not home no she her
2:14:15dancing doesn't finish till about nine
2:14:16so she doesn't get home until closer to
2:14:189 30. okay so you're in your bedroom and
2:14:21what are you doing i'm at this point i
2:14:23was on the phone with my friend andrew
2:14:25okay and
2:14:27just talking to him and then event after
2:14:29and watching tv
2:14:31and then
2:14:32that was i don't remember how long the
2:14:33conversation was but then i ended up
2:14:35calling my friend edward
2:14:37so andrew andrew is
2:14:40uh old high school friend
2:14:42okay and is he the one that
2:14:44was you would talk to this is the person
2:14:46you said you were talking to you're
2:14:48trying who was asking about meeting up
2:14:50with you yes
2:14:52so you were actually talking on the
2:14:53phone with him now yes did you you were
2:14:55talking on facebook with him earlier no
2:14:58i was uh text messaging text messaging
2:15:00him were you talking to anyone on
2:15:02facebook at the same time because i know
2:15:04i know you guys can multitask no i
2:15:06believe my facebook i keep my there's a
2:15:09chat window and i keep that as offline
2:15:11unless i intend to speak to one of my
2:15:14friends regarding one of the games i
2:15:16play so when you're talking to andrew
2:15:18you're not talking to anyone else no
2:15:21when you're talking to edward you're not
2:15:22talking to anyone else i don't have a
2:15:24computer in my room
2:15:26okay so that's that answers the question
2:15:28is that there's no computer in there how
2:15:29many computers are in the house uh
2:15:31there's one computer i'm not sure about
2:15:34towers because my brother recently took
2:15:36one to school with him
2:15:38but i know there's one fully working
2:15:40computer and my mother has a laptop do
2:15:42you use either
2:15:45like i said i was on the main computer
2:15:47earlier yes and the laptop i use
2:15:49occasionally but not too often did you
2:15:52use it that day
2:16:00i don't
2:16:02i don't remember to be honest but i
2:16:03don't believe i did
2:16:05and what services do you use when you're
2:16:07using the the laptop or or the other
2:16:10what you say you're on facebook is there
2:16:11any other chat lines or any other
2:16:13sometimes i have uh an msn open but
2:16:16rarely i don't like to be on msn too
2:16:19much okay
2:16:21um
2:16:22so uh
2:16:24now we're at nine o'clock and you're
2:16:26into the conversation you've had
2:16:28finished your conversation with andrew
2:16:29and now you're speaking edward what time
2:16:31is it do you think
2:16:359 15 9 30.
2:16:37when you're talking to edward is your
2:16:38mom have you heard your mom come in yet
2:16:40i heard my mom come in so i asked him to
2:16:42hold
2:16:43he had hung up
2:16:45so when i went down i was like hi mom
2:16:47and i saw her she had changed into her
2:16:49pajamas
2:16:51and she was downstairs watching tv again
2:16:53so let's stop it right there just hold
2:16:56it in check is that
2:16:59when she came in did you see her i
2:17:02didn't see her come in okay no when you
2:17:04heard her come in
2:17:05and you say she changed into her she
2:17:07went up the stairs you heard her come up
2:17:08this way i heard my mom come up the
2:17:09stairs and go into her bedroom okay and
2:17:12then when i went down like she went back
2:17:14down the stairs and that's when i went
2:17:15out
2:17:16and i went down the stairs and that's
2:17:17when i noticed she was in her pajamas
2:17:18and just watching tv
2:17:20okay
2:17:22did you see your dad
2:17:23he had gone
2:17:24back to his bedroom to call it a night
2:17:27you his door was closed but uh he wasn't
2:17:29on the computer you could see in the
2:17:31computer room that he was not there
2:17:33so this is after your mom after your mom
2:17:36arrives home you've heard her come up
2:17:38the stairs
2:17:40go into the guru in the room you're
2:17:41suspecting she's changed because by the
2:17:43time you follow her down the stairs
2:17:45she's in her didn't follow her she went
2:17:46down and then i went after her sure you
2:17:49went down to talk to your mom just to
2:17:50make sure she was
2:17:52okay
2:17:54what kind of what kind of pajamas is she
2:17:56wearing at this time green we need the
2:17:58poo she went change back into her green
2:17:59one of the pajamas okay
2:18:03when you come downstairs
2:18:05are you noticing is there any problems
2:18:07any issues anything out of the norm when
2:18:09you go down because you said you went
2:18:10down to check on her and see how she was
2:18:12is there anything that's strange is
2:18:13there anything different not that i know
2:18:15she was just on the couch like she
2:18:17normally is watching television
2:18:19winding down
2:18:20okay
2:18:22and that's now
2:18:24i'm you're saying 9 15 to 9 30 she gets
2:18:27home that's after that obviously just a
2:18:29little bit after that okay and then what
2:18:30happens
2:18:31i go back up my stairs and i call ed
2:18:33again okay and uh
2:18:36i had to use the washroom so i did put
2:18:37him on mute for a quick second
2:18:40and then i came back and i was just
2:18:42watching tv and talking with ed
2:18:44okay
2:18:45how long are you now upstairs on the
2:18:47phone with it with edward
2:18:50i'm sorry but that time frame just like
2:18:53i'm not sure okay
2:18:56um
2:18:57your cell phone records are going to
2:18:58give us the exact times okay okay so
2:19:01have you talked to anyone else
2:19:04is is it you hang up with edward go down
2:19:07and see your mom
2:19:08come back upstairs
2:19:10call edward yes use the washroom
2:19:13on the phone with edward still
2:19:15have you talked to anyone else no
2:19:17okay
2:19:19have you text message anyone else
2:19:21no
2:19:24how many i don't believe
2:19:26do you have more than one phone
2:19:28i had one but i keep that i just keep
2:19:31the sim card yes um again we will go
2:19:35into the history sure but uh my cell
2:19:37phone gets taken away from me sometimes
2:19:39okay and so i had um a friend of mine
2:19:43daniel he bought he got a sim card for
2:19:45me to use sometimes
2:19:47but i take the sim card out when i
2:19:49finish it and i normally keep it in my
2:19:50pocket so my parents wouldn't find it
2:19:52yes
2:19:53but i don't remember the last time i
2:19:56i used it okay but you didn't use that
2:19:59sim card that day no
2:20:01i did not know you did not i don't
2:20:04remember the last time maybe it was a
2:20:05few days before that it was the last
2:20:07time i remember using it was when my
2:20:10grandfather
2:20:11was in the hospital
2:20:12and i had messaged him and he asked me
2:20:15how my grandfather was and how long when
2:20:17is that time frame that your grandfather
2:20:18went into the hospital he was in the
2:20:19hospital for about 10 days 10 days okay
2:20:23so that's the last time you remember
2:20:24using that sim card associated to from
2:20:27what your friend had given yeah was
2:20:30about 10 days earlier or even 12 days
2:20:32earlier because i believe you said your
2:20:34grandfather had come out of the hospital
2:20:35or was he still in the hospital
2:20:37no he was in the hospital for 10 days
2:20:39yes on saturday he had gone back to his
2:20:43nursing home
2:20:44and this is monday we're talking so it's
2:20:46about
2:20:4812 to 14 days earlier that this happened
2:20:50that you you use the sim card you're
2:20:52guessing with
2:20:54the probably within a week
2:20:56yeah within a week yeah because i've
2:20:58mentioned seven days is that what we
2:21:00were saying yeah because uh i would
2:21:02message him when my grandfather was in
2:21:04the hospital okay yeah and where's that
2:21:06sim card now i'm not sure i
2:21:09don't remember
2:21:11i had it in my jacket pocket but i don't
2:21:13remember where it is now okay
2:21:16so
2:21:18we're now back to
2:21:19you're on the phone with edward and
2:21:21again the history stuff you're right i
2:21:23don't want it to get convoluted in here
2:21:24but we need to you know we'll talk about
2:21:26that stuff after
2:21:27so we're back on track here it's now
2:21:31you're back on the phone you've come
2:21:32from the washroom taking the unit button
2:21:33off and you're now on the phone with
2:21:35edward
2:21:38where's your mom have you heard your mom
2:21:39come up the stairs is she still down
2:21:41she's still downstairs she's still
2:21:42downstairs
2:21:43okay
2:21:45continue on
2:21:47um just i had my tv on because i was
2:21:49watching tv yes
2:21:54don't remember what show i was watching
2:21:56i believe it was amazing
2:21:59amazing race i'm i'm not 100 sure at
2:22:02this moment uh if i was watching tv and
2:22:04on the phone with ed as well okay
2:22:07and then
2:22:10i the next thing i remember is my mother
2:22:13calling down from my father
2:22:16what is she saying
2:22:18she's calling him by his name to come
2:22:20down
2:22:21okay so give us verbatim what do you
2:22:23hear her saying
2:22:24is it in
2:22:26the vietnamese chinese or is it in
2:22:28vietnamese okay what do you hear saying
2:22:31in vietnamese
2:22:33it's like hanoi
2:22:35what does that translate to
2:22:37uh it's my father's name han
2:22:40uh come down here
2:22:41does she say anything else associated
2:22:43with that with that
2:22:45i can't hear clearly because like i was
2:22:48on the phone and the tv was on but
2:22:50that's what i heard is she yelling
2:22:53or is it um
2:22:55it's a loud it's a she's not yelling but
2:22:57it's a loud tone okay
2:22:59and normally that tone
2:23:01means that i need to go down and see
2:23:03what's happening usually so that's when
2:23:06i told him i told edward i was like okay
2:23:08i gotta go i'll call you later
2:23:10and i hang up the phone with him
2:23:11have you heard anything else at this
2:23:13point in time
2:23:14as i'm hanging up the phone with him i
2:23:16hear footsteps going up the stairs okay
2:23:18but they're not
2:23:21they're heavier footsteps than
2:23:23what is to be expected from my parents
2:23:26okay
2:23:27and then i hear mumbling and someone's
2:23:30in the master bedroom and i hear the bed
2:23:34being tossed and i just froze where i
2:23:36was
2:23:39i have to say
2:23:40i don't
2:23:41know how long they were in there
2:23:43but
2:23:44i heard somebody go down the stairs
2:23:48so at this point
2:23:50i opened my door
2:23:52i peered out and there was
2:23:55a person
2:23:57in the my what would have been my
2:23:59brother's room and where's your
2:24:00brother's room located uh just a little
2:24:03bit down that like i could see my from
2:24:04my doorway to his doorway just a little
2:24:06bit down the hall
2:24:08okay
2:24:11and he looks at me and he pulls out his
2:24:12gun
2:24:15and he walks towards me and like sits me
2:24:18down on my bed
2:24:19because my bed is
2:24:21within a step from my door
2:24:24and he's like where's the money
2:24:26do you have any money give me your money
2:24:35so i had some money that i had saved up
2:24:37from serving and i was also planning on
2:24:40buying a new cell phone because my
2:24:42contract was finishing with rogers
2:24:46and the phone i'm currently using has
2:24:49not good reception so i had about two
2:24:52thousand dollars
2:24:54saved up
2:24:59and so i opened my drawer and i pointed
2:25:01at it
2:25:02and he picked it up
2:25:04and took the cash
2:25:06and put it in his pocket
2:25:12at this point he ties my hands behind my
2:25:14back
2:25:17and he walks me out okay so stop right
2:25:19there for a second
2:25:21okay i want you now that you've got him
2:25:23right there i want you to describe him
2:25:25to me
2:25:26what you can remember
2:25:28every little detail
2:25:36he's black dreadlocks
2:25:41how long are they dropping
2:25:43a boat
2:25:44show me on your on your on your own body
2:25:46where they where you would see about
2:25:48shoulder length okay but they were long
2:25:51enough that they
2:25:52were able to move
2:25:57uh he's
2:25:59i would he's a medium build
2:26:02and he is
2:26:04slight
2:26:06when i was standing i was
2:26:08almost eye level with him
2:26:12and you're when he came up to me i'm
2:26:14about 5'7 okay
2:26:21clothing all i can remember is
2:26:24dark clothing
2:26:30now you got to you've got a gun pointed
2:26:32at you yes and then he told
2:26:35okay uh the gun
2:26:38was black
2:26:40with
2:26:41um
2:26:42almost
2:26:44not a triangle but it
2:26:48kind of tapered
2:26:49a little
2:26:50on the handle
2:26:52and i would describe it as like um what
2:26:56i see on tv for
2:26:58like police officers kind of like
2:27:00i guess like a handgun sort of
2:27:02thing
2:27:05and the whole time he kept telling me to
2:27:08look down
2:27:13because my bedroom was dark but the
2:27:14hallway was lit so he kept telling me to
2:27:16look down look down
2:27:22at this point
2:27:23any accent
2:27:27not from this particular person
2:27:29does he sound like he was born and
2:27:30raised in canada
2:27:34i'd say
2:27:36i would say that he was born in canada
2:27:37but
2:27:39because like there was no sign of an
2:27:41accent in his
2:27:43and that's what i mean culturally i'm
2:27:44talking about the language you know you
2:27:46can tell someone who's spent a long time
2:27:48as a young age from starting because
2:27:50there is no it's
2:27:52it's normal normal speech
2:27:54is that what you're saying yes
2:27:56okay
2:27:58can you see anything on his hands
2:28:00uh he's wearing gloves
2:28:02what type of gloves uh
2:28:04black leather gloves
2:28:06okay
2:28:07now
2:28:08facial experience before you tells you
2:28:10to look down do you see anything is he
2:28:12got a wide nose has he got his
2:28:15any pock marks any acne any facial hair
2:28:29the only thing i could really make out
2:28:31is just the general shape of his face
2:28:34which is because the only thing i could
2:28:38think caught my attention was
2:28:41which was the gun okay
2:28:44what about his facial what about what he
2:28:46looks like tell me about that you said
2:28:48about the sight or the shape of his face
2:28:54it's not round but it's
2:28:58it's not a narrow face
2:29:00i
2:29:03um
2:29:06is
2:29:08he didn't have like his cheeks were
2:29:11protruding but they were
2:29:14they're not like the normal people
2:29:16uh
2:29:26it oh looks almost like a roundish
2:29:29squarish face
2:29:32his
2:29:34cheeks
2:29:35he had cheeks it wasn't like
2:29:37like um what they call um
2:29:41the defined um the the cheekbones yeah
2:29:43like it was it was almost like round
2:29:46a full full like there was some meat
2:29:48there right like i wouldn't i wouldn't
2:29:50say fat like it wasn't like a
2:29:52protruding but it was there was no
2:29:54like definition
2:29:56okay
2:29:58and now this guy's age and i know it's
2:30:00very difficult to define but
2:30:02you know people age differently and they
2:30:04have different appearances where would
2:30:06you put this this this guy
2:30:09uh very late 20s to
2:30:12early 30s so
2:30:14i would if i had to put numbers i'd say
2:30:16somewhere between
2:30:1728 to about 33.
2:30:20if you saw a picture of this guy in a
2:30:22composite like on a profile do you think
2:30:24you could identify
2:30:28i
2:30:30wouldn't be 100 certain
2:30:32okay so everyone looked
2:30:35like if everyone had dreadlocks and the
2:30:37face was very familiar i didn't get a
2:30:40very very clear
2:30:42look at his face because
2:30:44i'm sorry but the the only thing i could
2:30:47really see was that he had
2:30:49pointed that at me and
2:30:52now i think
2:30:53another possibility is just based on you
2:30:55if we sat you in front of a composite
2:30:57drawer it sounds like you could give
2:30:59them some
2:31:00some raw information that might be able
2:31:02to help in that area okay so if you
2:31:04can't do that idea that that one's still
2:31:06available okay
2:31:08so now
2:31:10he's uh you've given he's taken your
2:31:11money where and where exactly was your
2:31:13money located uh
2:31:15i have my tv's on uh
2:31:18on a bedside table
2:31:19and i keep it in a little book
2:31:22almost
2:31:24a day planner but i don't use it for day
2:31:25planning
2:31:26um it was a gift from friends what are
2:31:29you wearing right now
2:31:30um
2:31:32i'm wearing what i was prepared to go to
2:31:34bed i'm wearing
2:31:35my black pants
2:31:36and
2:31:39an old
2:31:40figure skating uh sweater that i had
2:31:42gotten describe the sweater to me like
2:31:44what is it does it have pockets does it
2:31:46have a hood does it is it just a sweater
2:31:48it's just a like a slip-on sweater no
2:31:50hood no pockets
2:31:52okay so when you get off the phone with
2:31:54edward and you're saying where does this
2:31:56phone go i stick it uh right
2:31:59here on the back side of my pants
2:32:02back side of your pants yes so in the
2:32:04waistband yes
2:32:06okay
2:32:08you open the door you see this figure
2:32:10he's come in he's taking the money and
2:32:11the bed the nightstand is on what side
2:32:13of your bed
2:32:14if you're looking at if you're looking
2:32:16at the front of your bed this way where
2:32:17is the nightstand
2:32:20it's in front of my bed
2:32:22okay so it's right beside the the door
2:32:24yes
2:32:29the nightstand the tv and my bed is
2:32:32along towards
2:32:34the tv to watch did you take anything
2:32:36else from your room
2:32:38not when i was there no
2:32:40not when you were there no okay
2:32:42did he toss your room
2:32:47i don't
2:32:48while you were there no
2:32:50okay
2:32:51so he takes you you're you're let
2:32:53outside out of the hallway now and what
2:32:55happens
2:32:56are the lights in the hallway still on
2:33:01yes but he's telling me to look down
2:33:02okay
2:33:04and at this point now he's behind me he
2:33:06had grabbed me
2:33:07at the shirt and he had pulled me in
2:33:10front of him and
2:33:12uh was
2:33:14pushing me towards the stairs
2:33:16okay
2:33:19what does he say
2:33:21he keeps
2:33:22yelling
2:33:24hurry up hurry up
2:33:27do what we're saying
2:33:29and no one will get hurt
2:33:32okay
2:33:41and then he takes me down the stairs
2:33:44and
2:33:45the lights on the main floor all turned
2:33:48off
2:33:50we take
2:33:55my stairs are a little curved and we
2:33:58just went he sat he made me push me down
2:34:02by my shoulders and told me to sit on
2:34:04the floor
2:34:05do you feel the gun
2:34:07is he using his hand he's using his hand
2:34:10to lead me down the stairs and
2:34:12force me to sit down
2:34:14only one hand okay you see the gun again
2:34:18at this point i'm looking down and he's
2:34:20behind me i don't see his gun
2:34:23um
2:34:24but i can see
2:34:27there's two other shadows and i can see
2:34:32from where i was standing my father was
2:34:34sitting on the right and my mother was
2:34:36sitting on the left sitting where on a
2:34:39couch on our couch
2:34:41sitting on the couch
2:34:42are they looking out towards you
2:34:44no their backs are towards me
2:34:46okay
2:34:47and you're now on the ground level are
2:34:49you on the floor or on the sitting on
2:34:51the floor i'm sitting on the floor all
2:34:53right where are your hands
2:34:55they had tied my hands so let's go
2:34:57let's go back up to the stairs remember
2:34:58we said
2:35:00take the other statement and whatever
2:35:01we've said before i i said it earlier
2:35:04okay then we must let's let's get back
2:35:06to that area i think you might have
2:35:06touched on it we went back into the
2:35:08description so where does he where do
2:35:10you get your hands tied and where does
2:35:11the string come from
2:35:13i'm not sure where the string comes from
2:35:15but he had the string okay
2:35:18and he after i gave him my money that's
2:35:21when he tied my hands
2:35:24how did that happen
2:35:25where were you in the room in the
2:35:27hallway where he told me to sit down on
2:35:29the edge of my bed
2:35:31yes
2:35:31and
2:35:32that's when i opened
2:35:34he showed he told me show show me
2:35:37and i pulled open
2:35:39my my drawer my dresser
2:35:42and
2:35:42he saw the money and he picked it up
2:35:46my book and then he opened up the book
2:35:47and grabbed the cash put in his pocket
2:35:49okay
2:35:52at this point he still has a gun
2:35:54pointing towards me
2:35:57and
2:35:58he
2:36:03you're doing great you're doing fabulous
2:36:06okay
2:36:07so he's got the gun pointed at you
2:36:12and how do the hands get behind your
2:36:14back he told me to put my hands behind
2:36:16my
2:36:17okay
2:36:21continue
2:36:32i believe he had
2:36:39i'm sorry i'm just trying to be 100
2:36:41certain
2:36:42and it's just it's pieces then roll
2:36:45through them we'll put the pieces
2:36:46together
2:36:50i
2:36:52you've got the money out of the drawer
2:36:53open the drawer put it in his pocket i'm
2:36:55sitting on my bed yes
2:36:58and he had told me to put my hands
2:36:59behind my back okay
2:37:04but it was dark
2:37:07so i believe he told me to
2:37:09stand up so he could tie my hands
2:37:11together
2:37:13and i was trying to
2:37:16make it loose so i could
2:37:19i could do something but he had pulled
2:37:21him so tight
2:37:24and he made sure i squealed before he
2:37:29before he let go
2:37:31is your tv on
2:37:33okay my tv is on the whole time okay
2:37:40so you've squealed they're tight and
2:37:41they're behind your back
2:37:43and that's when he grabs me and starts
2:37:44leading me down the stairs okay does he
2:37:47pat you down or search you or do
2:37:48anything thank you
2:37:50because if he had pat me down he would
2:37:51have found my phone
2:37:53okay
2:37:54so you
2:37:55you're now down at the bottom of the
2:37:57stairs
2:37:58you at this point in time you've only
2:37:59seen one person or have you seen the
2:38:01others before you get to the bottom of
2:38:02this before i get to the bottom of the
2:38:03stairs i had
2:38:05seen
2:38:06one person
2:38:08okay
2:38:09so now you're at the bottom of the
2:38:10stairs and he keeps telling these guys
2:38:12to hurry up hurry up is taking too long
2:38:16and
2:38:17he
2:38:18he told me to look down but i was able
2:38:21to
2:38:23see out of my peripheral
2:38:31a man that i will call number three
2:38:34because i associated with him the least
2:38:39he had
2:38:40a gun
2:38:44pointed at my father
2:38:47asking him if he had
2:38:50money in his wallet
2:38:52and where the money was in the house
2:38:56and he asked my father how much he had
2:38:58in his wallet
2:38:59and my father answered him 60 dollars
2:39:02and he kept yelling you better not be
2:39:03lying to me
2:39:04is there more where is the rest
2:39:10and
2:39:14another person who was hiding behind
2:39:18the wall in the kitchen from where i sit
2:39:20i couldn't see him at first
2:39:23he had was asking my mother where her
2:39:25purse was
2:39:27so hang on a second who is this is this
2:39:29another another guy is this number a
2:39:31number you've gone from a number one to
2:39:33a number three yes i call this guy
2:39:34number two okay so number three let's
2:39:37stick with number three what what can
2:39:39you describe of him if anything
2:39:42including the gun
2:39:45i can only see that there was
2:39:48a round
2:39:49uh kind of like a revolver
2:39:52i'm sorry that's okay
2:39:54remember if you have to stop and take
2:39:56some deep breaths that really does help
2:39:58the process
2:40:01his gun had
2:40:04what you call a
2:40:05i believe a revolver
2:40:07it's like one of those things you see in
2:40:09old
2:40:10old western movies
2:40:14and he had i could just see uh
2:40:17almost like a silhouette of it from the
2:40:20light
2:40:21uh coming through the
2:40:23curtains
2:40:25so in proximity now you're looking
2:40:27through the peripheral okay
2:40:29uh is it you're looking right or left
2:40:31and where you are
2:40:32right you're looking right so you're
2:40:34looking over here to the right
2:40:36okay and
2:40:37you can see your backs of your mom and
2:40:39dad who are sitting on the couch yes
2:40:41can you see what they're wearing
2:40:44i can't see what my father's wearing can
2:40:46you see what your mom's wearing
2:40:48at that point in time i couldn't see
2:40:50what my mother's wearing it was later on
2:40:53that i saw what she was wearing okay so
2:40:55we'll go on to later on then
2:40:57so there you can see them in the back
2:40:58and where is the silhouette in relation
2:41:00to
2:41:01your mom and dad
2:41:03standing in front of my father
2:41:05okay
2:41:06so is
2:41:07is is a house this the what what lights
2:41:10are on on the ground level
2:41:12none
2:41:13he they cracked open the fridge a few
2:41:16times for light but
2:41:18the only light on the main floor was the
2:41:21one shining through the windows and
2:41:24doors
2:41:26the
2:41:27this number three guy you hear him speak
2:41:30what is what do you what do you notice
2:41:31about or know about his his um
2:41:35the words he's speaking accent if any
2:41:38it's um
2:41:41it's
2:41:42uh
2:41:44he's not from oh he wasn't
2:41:46the accent's not what i normally hear
2:41:49it was
2:41:52almost caribbean
2:41:53like jamaican or guyanese and
2:41:57like that kind of accent yep
2:41:59um
2:42:01have you got friends who the reason i
2:42:03ask you is is the jamaican accent or the
2:42:05guyanese accent have you got friends who
2:42:07have that accent that you recognize it
2:42:09growing up there was uh
2:42:12growing up one of my friends was from
2:42:15guy guyana and
2:42:18i remember vaguely like when his parents
2:42:21came for her
2:42:22school functions
2:42:24it was sort of
2:42:26something like that so it's tweaking you
2:42:28to some a care like a a western
2:42:30caribbean island area like jamaica or
2:42:34or um
2:42:35guyana something something like that
2:42:37okay
2:42:38so you hear him talk and he described
2:42:40his silhouette to me what you see of it
2:42:43all i could see is that he's slim and
2:42:46tall
2:42:47um
2:42:49again i was sitting on the floor but
2:42:51no race
2:42:53he
2:42:54it was dark but
2:42:56i
2:42:59you can't put a race to him would not
2:43:01with i don't want to put a race with
2:43:03voice i want a race by color
2:43:06i
2:43:06could not see it was dark i could not
2:43:08see his face okay
2:43:12and now
2:43:13number two
2:43:15okay you say that doors fridge doors
2:43:17where does he come into play where do
2:43:18you first see him i first see him when
2:43:21he's asking my mother where her purse is
2:43:24and um
2:43:26they kept telling us that if we just
2:43:28cooperated everything would be okay
2:43:31so she
2:43:32i just just interrupt you because we i
2:43:34want to stay on get back to three before
2:43:36we move on to two is is three when is it
2:43:38is number three how is his interaction
2:43:40with her father when he's telling him
2:43:42about demanding the money and the only
2:43:44money and not lying to him
2:43:46is this like is he talking in a low
2:43:48monotone voice or is he yelling at him
2:43:51how is the how's the interaction going
2:43:57a stern voice stern but not screaming
2:44:02not angry
2:44:04okay so i interrupted you now back to
2:44:07number two where he's asking your mom
2:44:09for
2:44:10her wallet her purse
2:44:12her purse at first
2:44:14and this is at the point where my mother
2:44:16stands up and that's when i saw
2:44:19that's when i saw her close again okay
2:44:22at this point in the night
2:44:24obviously
2:44:25and what is she wearing she's still
2:44:27wearing her winnie the pooh pajamas as
2:44:28she was when i
2:44:30had come down earlier okay
2:44:35and uh
2:44:37all i could see was
2:44:40that
2:44:42he had pushed her back onto the couch
2:44:44and she pushed her number two okay she
2:44:46was pushing her back onto the couch
2:44:49and
2:44:50she she kept saying where's my purse
2:44:51where's my purse
2:44:54i think i kept telling her to sit down
2:44:56and i didn't want my mom to get hurt
2:45:03how many times does she get up and get
2:45:05pushed back down
2:45:13i'd say she got up
2:45:15twice
2:45:17and she
2:45:19and then they told
2:45:20the first time she stepped back and sat
2:45:23down but the second time she was pushed
2:45:25back onto the couch
2:45:26this is only by number two
2:45:28yes because number one was standing
2:45:30behind me
2:45:31is he saying anything during this
2:45:32process
2:45:34he keeps uttering that
2:45:36we have to hurry up
2:45:38it's taking too
2:45:40long and that's
2:45:43at that point that's he kept saying
2:45:44hurry up
2:45:46it's taking too long
2:45:48is there any other demands from either
2:45:50two or three or one about
2:45:53a about wallet or purse is there any
2:45:55other
2:45:56two was the one talking to my father
2:45:58asking about his wallet
2:46:01and number one and he kept saying
2:46:02where's the rest of the money
2:46:04and where's the purse was coming from
2:46:07number one
2:46:08number one behind you yes
2:46:11i thought number number two didn't speak
2:46:14okay well you just said number two is
2:46:16the one who's making demands
2:46:18no he's the one looking
2:46:20okay he's the one looking so number two
2:46:22as we we're stepping back to because i
2:46:25don't want to confuse this thing i want
2:46:26to slow it down no no no don't be sorry
2:46:29we're just going to slow it down okay
2:46:30you're you're getting agitated and
2:46:33and
2:46:33and
2:46:35you're anxious so we're going to slow
2:46:37things down again because it's very
2:46:38important in this area right
2:46:40as you had said
2:46:42that number two
2:46:44talks to your mom
2:46:45and says
2:46:46where's your purse
2:46:48and pushes her down
2:46:50so now you said that number two didn't
2:46:52speak so let's clarify that
2:46:54what i meant was number one had asked
2:46:56her where her purse was and she was
2:46:58mumbling where is my purse and number
2:47:00two was the one that pushed her
2:47:02so your number number one is talking to
2:47:04your mom from behind you
2:47:06okay where's your purse where's your
2:47:08purse yes
2:47:10she gets up
2:47:11and number two number two steps forward
2:47:14and
2:47:16that's when my mom steps back and sits
2:47:17down
2:47:20has number two uttered a word at this
2:47:22point in time
2:47:24i can't remember hearing him
2:47:26okay
2:47:27so we're just correcting what you said
2:47:29earlier because you said earlier that it
2:47:30was number two who was asking where the
2:47:32purse is what are the purses and now
2:47:34you've said now it's number one
2:47:36guy who would initially
2:47:38no no it's all a purpose
2:47:41the purpose here is clarifying what
2:47:42you're saying so number one
2:47:45number one is the one who's doing the
2:47:47talking about the purse
2:47:49number three
2:47:50is focused on your dad's wallet
2:47:53okay number two
2:47:55pushes your mom back into place into the
2:47:57scene
2:47:58now at this point in time can you see
2:47:59number two can you see his description
2:48:02at this point in time all i could see is
2:48:04a hoodie and slim build
2:48:06hoodie and slim build do you see a gun
2:48:08on him
2:48:09i'm on the floor i can't see what
2:48:12like what his hands were doing when you
2:48:14say you're on the floor how are you on
2:48:16the floor how are you what are you how
2:48:18what's your position are you lying on
2:48:19the floor you're sitting on the floor
2:48:21i'm sitting on the floor
2:48:24cross-legged
2:48:25when
2:48:27with the number one behind me okay
2:48:31so
2:48:32you've now
2:48:33um
2:48:35you've now got
2:48:36your dad like who's told him about the
2:48:39wallet upstairs with sixty dollars you
2:48:41got your mom who's they're asking about
2:48:43a purse from number one
2:48:45let's go from there
2:48:50how is your mom dealing with this when
2:48:51she's getting up and getting pushed back
2:48:53down is she responding to them is she
2:48:55talking to them
2:48:57she keeps saying because they keep
2:48:58uttering if you cooperate
2:49:01no one will get hurt
2:49:03and
2:49:08she keeps asking herself where's my
2:49:10purse where's my purse
2:49:14in english
2:49:19and then i believe she remembers that
2:49:22she didn't take her purse out she only
2:49:23had a wallet that day
2:49:26after she came home
2:49:28she had a wallet
2:49:31she was trying to find it and number two
2:49:33was looking around for it
2:49:35was she up helping to look for it
2:49:38that the second time that's when she
2:49:40stood up to help and that's when she got
2:49:41pushed back down okay
2:49:47are they bound do you see their hands or
2:49:50my mother when she got up i she was not
2:49:52bound okay
2:49:55so do they direct number two to where
2:49:57this will per the where the wallet is or
2:49:58does he find it that you know
2:50:02i don't know
2:50:03okay
2:50:04so then what happens
2:50:06and then
2:50:08number one tells me to stand up
2:50:11and because i'm crossing on the floor i
2:50:13with my hands about my back i couldn't
2:50:15get up very well
2:50:17and so he kind of
2:50:19he was one hand he kind of pulled me up
2:50:25and
2:50:27he said come here
2:50:30he didn't say
2:50:32who or what he just said come here
2:50:35and he
2:50:36brought me upstairs and said you're
2:50:37gonna take me to
2:50:39the wallet show me where your father's
2:50:41wallet where does he keep his wallet
2:50:52and at this point number two had come
2:50:54upstairs
2:50:57and since he was upstairs
2:51:00i'm just turning this off because it's
2:51:02going number two sorry sir let's start
2:51:04there hang on a second again come with
2:51:05me come with me
2:51:07they take me to my parents room and i
2:51:10can see the
2:51:11bed is turned over and everything's
2:51:14awry
2:51:15and you're with um number one is still
2:51:17behind me yes and number two at the
2:51:20point is on his way up
2:51:22okay so he's not up there yet
2:51:24okay do you hear any interaction going
2:51:26on between your parents and number three
2:51:28can you hear anything
2:51:38i don't recall anything okay so you get
2:51:40to the top of the stairs
2:51:41and he takes me to my parents room where
2:51:43are you standing at first i was standing
2:51:45at the doorway like in the middle of the
2:51:47doorway and then he pushed me aside
2:51:50to my left a little so that number two
2:51:52can come in
2:51:53okay you get a good look at number two
2:51:55now of what he's wearing
2:51:57all i could tell was he had a vest and
2:51:59his face was like a long oval face did a
2:52:02vest
2:52:03no hoodie
2:52:05okay
2:52:06a dark hoodie okay was there anything on
2:52:10his face or was there could you see his
2:52:11face
2:52:13again he kept telling me to keep my head
2:52:14down
2:52:15and every time i tried to he used his
2:52:17hand and he
2:52:18because he had me by my shoulder he kind
2:52:21of just let go for a second push my head
2:52:23down to make sure i wouldn't look up
2:52:25okay is the where you know what the
2:52:27light what the lights you said in the
2:52:28hallway upstairs were on are they on
2:52:30still yes
2:52:31okay when you're looking down can you
2:52:33see what number one is wearing on his
2:52:35pants or his shoes
2:52:38he was
2:52:39not directly behind me and i was
2:52:43there was just so much in front of me
2:52:44that had happened and
2:52:47i don't recall okay
2:52:49so where are you facing if you're at the
2:52:52doorway
2:52:53when you're looking in are the lights to
2:52:55your mom and dad's room on
2:52:57are you now facing into the room
2:53:00and what do you see you said you saw the
2:53:02bed turned up so it turned
2:53:04so the room has been rummaged through is
2:53:06is what or is that the state of your
2:53:08parents room no okay it was
2:53:11it like they had flipped the bed
2:53:13okay
2:53:14and
2:53:15when you say you move to the left are
2:53:16you still able to look inside the
2:53:18bedroom
2:53:20where do they have you look where are
2:53:22you looking now almost like i'm right
2:53:23beside the wall and my parents have a my
2:53:26mother has a sewing table
2:53:29there okay so i'm just staring at i'm
2:53:32like looking down at the table
2:53:34and peripherals you can't see
2:53:37where where he's
2:53:38no and where is number one at this point
2:53:40he's still behind me okay
2:53:43so what's going on inside the room with
2:53:45number two now in there he's looking for
2:53:47my parents my father's jeans and he's
2:53:49asking me where is it
2:53:50but i don't know where it is because
2:53:52they had turned the room
2:53:54around
2:53:56and
2:53:58then number one pulled me backwards
2:54:01and told me to sit at the top of the
2:54:03banister
2:54:04and tied my hands back
2:54:06uh tied my arm to the banister
2:54:09okay now
2:54:11did did you see them recover anything
2:54:13inside your mom and dad's room
2:54:15i did not see anything no
2:54:19are you sure because uh we would when we
2:54:22spoke the last time there was some
2:54:23mention of some other money that went
2:54:25missing
2:54:36there uh
2:54:40yes the us currency so how did that get
2:54:43found
2:54:55i believe when they were looking for my
2:54:57father's wallet they had
2:54:59opened the
2:55:00drawer and there was a it was in an
2:55:03envelope what drawer would that have
2:55:05been in
2:55:06on my
2:55:08on the if you're in
2:55:10at the door where i was standing on the
2:55:12left side
2:55:13the bedside table whose side of the bed
2:55:16is it that's my mother's side of the bed
2:55:19okay
2:55:20and
2:55:21approximately how much money
2:55:24i'm not sure how much she took out for
2:55:26our
2:55:26our trip
2:55:29but i cannot i can only
2:55:32estimate about a few hundred dollars few
2:55:34hundred because at the time the last
2:55:36time you told me you were pretty adamant
2:55:37about about eleven hundred dollars so
2:55:39i'm curious to know how you came up with
2:55:41that number
2:55:47i believe is when we were at the border
2:55:50we and we stopped at the duty free my
2:55:52mother was deciding whether to use her
2:55:54us currency or her
2:55:55[Music]
2:55:57oh her u.s currency or her canadian
2:55:59currency
2:56:02so it was at that time you remember
2:56:03hearing eleven hundred dollars
2:56:05and that's what is that the inference
2:56:07you're saying is that because you're
2:56:09pretty solid
2:56:10saying that it was eleven hundred
2:56:11dollars that went missing that course
2:56:13was taken
2:56:15and that you saw
2:56:17when we spoke
2:56:22and who took it
2:56:24who took possession of the money
2:56:27i'm sorry that's all right
2:56:32were you ever inside the room did they
2:56:34ever take you inside the room did you
2:56:36ever make it past the threshold of that
2:56:38door
2:56:52okay
2:56:53so let's come back to now you're being
2:56:56taken to the the banister and the other
2:56:58don't apologize okay i'm going to try
2:57:01and ask you questions to try and clarify
2:57:03points okay if you don't remember you
2:57:05don't remember
2:57:08okay so don't there's no apologizing the
2:57:10only reason you would apologize to me is
2:57:12if you lied to me no okay
2:57:15then in this case then don't apologize
2:57:17to me it's okay okay i'm gonna ask you
2:57:19questions to clarify points
2:57:22so you're at the bit you've been taken
2:57:23back to the banister who is there
2:57:26number one took me back okay where's
2:57:28number two he was still in the bedroom
2:57:31okay
2:57:34how do you get tied to this banister
2:57:44he
2:57:45number one
2:57:48number two had come out of
2:57:51come out of the room
2:57:54and he had
2:57:55told number two
2:57:58go get cuzzy for this drink uh no it was
2:58:02go get cuz
2:58:10he has said that
2:58:12i need a string go get cuz
2:58:16and number two ran down the stairs and
2:58:17he came back up shortly after
2:58:20and then
2:58:36and i believe number two was the one
2:58:37that tied me up
2:58:40because number one was still holding the
2:58:41gun in front of me so number one is now
2:58:43in front of you he has been in front of
2:58:45me since he pulled me out of the bedroom
2:58:47okay
2:58:48and he sat me down and he was in front
2:58:49of me
2:58:50making sure i was down
2:58:52so on this gun that you're looking at
2:58:54that's in front of you is there can you
2:58:56see what type of gun is it does it have
2:58:57a cylinder or round thing like an old
2:58:59gun or does it look like more it like uh
2:59:02it just reminded me of the
2:59:04like television police like the handguns
2:59:07yeah
2:59:09yeah okay
2:59:10and it's black
2:59:12can you see from there now you're in
2:59:14front of him and you're looking down can
2:59:15you see his shoes can you see anything
2:59:17else about him i want you to think right
2:59:18now just try
2:59:20it's tough to put yourself back in that
2:59:22spot but
2:59:23you've never been tied up i suspect or
2:59:25bound like that and now you're sitting
2:59:26there staring down can you is there
2:59:28anything that you remember about his
2:59:29shoes
2:59:31or his pants
2:59:40any idea where this string came from
2:59:42does it does it what you're you're
2:59:44seeing it come around because it's now
2:59:46lit
2:59:47does it look like it's come from some
2:59:50from clothing or from shoes that you
2:59:51might have in your house
2:59:54or you don't know it just
2:59:58just look like a black shoelace i
3:00:03okay
3:00:05any any interaction any communication
3:00:08going on between you and number one and
3:00:09number two while this is being while
3:00:11you're being bound
3:00:13my mother's calling for me
3:00:15okay and they keep saying
3:00:18that
3:00:20just shut up
3:00:23who's saying that to who
3:00:25number three is downstairs and she's
3:00:27telling her to shut up she's telling to
3:00:29shut up what's your dad doing
3:00:31i can't hear my father okay
3:00:37you're now bound to this to the to the
3:00:39railing
3:00:40can you show me can you stand up and
3:00:42turn around and tell me just show on the
3:00:43camera how your hands are bound
3:00:47and how you are against the railing you
3:00:49don't have to sit down i just need to
3:00:50see how you work
3:01:00the only reason that i'm trying to i
3:01:02need to do this is that i'm also going
3:01:04to ask you is that it so take this back
3:01:06to from take it out of a traumatizing
3:01:08event which it is and put put yourself
3:01:10into a more clinical position because i
3:01:12want to see
3:01:13how you could physically get your phone
3:01:15out of your waistband we're obviously
3:01:17going to need to know that it's very
3:01:18important so traumatize a way now put
3:01:21yourself into a just a state of i need
3:01:24to mechanically show how i can get
3:01:27access to my phone okay because that's
3:01:29obviously very relevant we know you made
3:01:31the phone call
3:01:32but questions are going to obviously
3:01:34raise is that if my hands are bound and
3:01:36i'm against the railing how do i talk to
3:01:38a 911 operator
3:01:40okay so clinically this is now a
3:01:43clinical demonstration
3:01:45just stand up
3:01:47focus in on how you did it
3:01:54and i want you to stick that in your
3:01:55waistband as an example okay so take
3:01:57your just take your sweat off because
3:01:59this will be a very smooth very quick
3:02:00thing it's a one-time demonstration i'm
3:02:02not going to ask you to repeat it
3:02:04but i need to go through it okay so just
3:02:06take your sweater off
3:02:16stand up and turn around
3:02:20put this in the side that you believe it
3:02:21was in
3:02:24great turn around so that only you're
3:02:27looking away from me you're looking
3:02:28exactly like now here is where the
3:02:30banister is put your hands back behind
3:02:32your back is exactly how you remember
3:02:34they were
3:02:36okay
3:02:37now and are you restrained from movement
3:02:39how far can you move your hands from the
3:02:41banister
3:02:44they tied my upper arm
3:02:46yes around the banister yes
3:02:49but my hands are bound together so your
3:02:51hands bound together and this is the arm
3:02:53that's the strings wrapped around
3:02:54against the banister
3:02:56okay so now how can you get to the phone
3:03:01and how do you make the phone call
3:03:079-1-1
3:03:09and do you talk down like that yes i'm
3:03:11yelling at the phone like this and how
3:03:13can you hear
3:03:16i turned the volume on max yes
3:03:19so that's exactly the way that you're
3:03:21talking to her against the brailling
3:03:24okay that's good enough sit down put
3:03:26your sweater back on
3:03:30you just put your swing
3:03:32yeah yeah
3:03:36you want it you want some more water
3:03:39i'm okay okay
3:03:41i really appreciate that obviously it's
3:03:43very important to see it because we
3:03:44can't put you either we would be
3:03:46absolutely physically
3:03:49impossible to put you back into the same
3:03:51position but
3:03:52we just needed to see how you get the
3:03:54phone out and
3:03:56and make the call
3:04:05okay so
3:04:06sit back take a couple of deep breaths
3:04:08again
3:04:16when you're
3:04:17when you're up against the railing and
3:04:18now you've been bound
3:04:21and
3:04:23is number two and number one still there
3:04:25or are they gone
3:04:26number one was there for a little bit
3:04:28number two randomly stares what is
3:04:30number ones is he saying anything to you
3:04:34he's saying you obeyed
3:04:39and just shut up
3:04:41and don't move
3:04:45and he continues yelling downstairs
3:04:47hurry up
3:04:49hurry up it's taking too long hurry up
3:04:58now tell me something
3:05:00okay which is kind of important
3:05:04there's a safe in the house is there not
3:05:10safe is in a fairly visible place within
3:05:14within your parents bedroom is it
3:05:16not it's inside their closet
3:05:19fairly visible record at least from the
3:05:21pictures
3:05:25was there ever mention of wanting the
3:05:27combination to that safe
3:05:33through any of the interaction of one
3:05:35two and three did they know that there
3:05:36was a safe in place
3:05:41i don't i i'm not aware if they knew
3:05:46okay i didn't
3:05:48so you never heard any of them demanding
3:05:49the safety the the uh the combination to
3:05:52the safe
3:05:57was there anything else they were
3:05:59demanding in their yelling it was was it
3:06:01was what was the focus of what they were
3:06:04looking for cash
3:06:05cash
3:06:10okay
3:06:12so number one's talking to you you
3:06:13obeyed
3:06:15and we need to go we need to go
3:06:21and where does he go from that point in
3:06:22time
3:06:23he's yelling down the stairs
3:06:26is there more
3:06:29and number two i can just hear him
3:06:31muffling something i i don't hear him
3:06:34clearly
3:06:35number two or number three
3:06:37oh sorry number three number three
3:06:41number three okay
3:06:44it's just
3:06:45a myrrh but i can't i can't hear what
3:06:48he's saying okay
3:06:55at this point i started hearing my
3:06:56parents get up
3:06:59and they're moving
3:07:00and my mom's yelling where's my daughter
3:07:03i want my daughter where's my daughter
3:07:06i'm yelling your mom i'm here
3:07:10are they saying anything to your parents
3:07:16i know she's yelling to you
3:07:18okay she's she's yelling to you
3:07:21are they saying anything
3:07:28like are they giving them directions as
3:07:30to where they're going
3:07:51or can you remember
3:07:54okay
3:07:58so you hear them get up and you're
3:07:59moving and they're moving in what
3:08:01direction
3:08:05towards the basement
3:08:07okay
3:08:09are you still hearing one and two or one
3:08:11and three are you hearing all three of
3:08:12them
3:08:14number one
3:08:15and what's he saying
3:08:17hurry up
3:08:18is there more
3:08:28okay
3:08:30at this point he
3:08:32throws my glasses
3:08:37then he walks down the stairs
3:08:40so he's still up there with you
3:08:42wendy and and at this so you've had your
3:08:44glasses on the whole time when does he
3:08:45take them off
3:08:46right before he leaves
3:08:48right after so you're tied to the
3:08:50banister
3:08:51you're just before he leaves to go down
3:08:53the stairs your glasses are off
3:08:55you have had your glasses on the whole
3:08:56time prior to that
3:08:58okay
3:09:03so now you hear your parents up and
3:09:05they're moving
3:09:06towards the basement do you what do you
3:09:07hear
3:09:10where's the rest of the money
3:09:17who's voice
3:09:20the one with the caribbean accent number
3:09:22three
3:09:24we've called number three
3:09:26where's the rest of the money
3:09:28is that as you're as you hear your
3:09:30parents moving i can hear them stepping
3:09:32down the stairs
3:09:33okay
3:09:35then
3:09:37after number one joins them after he
3:09:40took my glasses
3:09:42you heard him go down the stairs as well
3:09:45number one then left me yes
3:09:47and he went down the stairs and i asked
3:09:50my mom was still calling for me and i
3:09:52wanted to go and he says no
3:10:00okay hang on a second
3:10:02hang on
3:10:06so number you hear number one say no to
3:10:09your response to your demand of wanting
3:10:11to go do you hear the questions coming
3:10:13or your mom saying where is she where is
3:10:15she are she starting to make are they
3:10:17starting to go down to the basement are
3:10:18they on the stairs leading to the
3:10:20basement
3:10:22can you hear i'm going to ask you to
3:10:24focus in because it's very difficult i'm
3:10:26going to ask you to focus in are you
3:10:28hearing all of them going downstairs
3:10:32can you hear that many footsteps that's
3:10:34five sets of steps
3:10:43because if your mom is moving down to
3:10:44the basement with these guys and number
3:10:46one is walking down to join them he
3:10:48would be but he would be later he would
3:10:49he would be walking down does he go down
3:10:51to the basement
3:10:52or do you know
3:10:57can't tell
3:11:02here
3:11:03jennifer take a kleenex
3:11:06and just take a minute
3:11:24okay
3:11:25so we're now down in the basement
3:11:26they're down in the year no your parents
3:11:28are down in the basement you don't know
3:11:30who's down there with them you can't
3:11:32tell how many people went down
3:11:34you know that number one left and was
3:11:36heading in down in that direction but
3:11:38you don't know by footsteps
3:11:40who's down there
3:11:41paying attention that's all right
3:11:44whose voices can you hear now down in
3:11:45the basement
3:11:52you can just remember number three
3:11:55saying you lied
3:11:57there's more where is it you lied
3:12:01you're lying
3:12:08okay and then what do you hear
3:12:27[Music]
3:12:32hey hero
3:12:37i heard pop
3:12:39and then my mom
3:12:41i heard her squeal
3:12:44so do you hear one pop or do you hear
3:12:45two
3:12:46that's what i can't remember then don't
3:12:49it's it's one or two
3:12:51okay and then you hear your mom squeal
3:12:56and then what do you hear
3:13:03another one or two pops
3:13:05do you hear any voices in between other
3:13:06than your mum squealing do you hear
3:13:08number three say anything
3:13:10calling for her
3:13:12okay
3:13:16don't apologize okay this is nothing to
3:13:18fear to apologize to me for this is
3:13:21something that you're trying to remember
3:13:23so you heard a pop
3:13:25you heard your mom squeal
3:13:27and then you heard another
3:13:30any idea how many more pops you heard
3:13:35i just remember that i heard one or two
3:13:37and then there was
3:13:39a slight break
3:13:42and there was one more
3:13:45i don't remember those two and then
3:13:47break and then one or if it was one in
3:13:49the break and then one
3:13:51okay so you're saying that you heard a
3:13:53total of how many pops
3:13:55guessing
3:14:03four or five okay so you hear
3:14:06after those pops
3:14:08popping noises
3:14:10what do you hear after the last popping
3:14:12noise you've heard what do you hear
3:14:14that's it
3:14:18it's too long let's go
3:14:20from number one
3:14:22that's it
3:14:23it's too long let's go
3:14:25okay
3:14:27i think i just hear a bunch of
3:14:30what's going
3:14:35does it sound like they're obviously
3:14:36coming does it sound coming up the
3:14:38stairs
3:14:39do you know where they leave
3:14:52i believe they went out the front door
3:14:54okay but i couldn't see anything i just
3:14:57it's what i heard it's what you're
3:14:59hearing
3:15:01what else do you hear next
3:15:03then i heard
3:15:05was the door closed i heard my father
3:15:08he ran up the stairs and all i could
3:15:09hear was moaning
3:15:13yeah
3:15:14once i heard him starting to move i
3:15:17that's when i pulled up the phone and i
3:15:18was trying to call 911.
3:15:21okay
3:15:27did you hear
3:15:28after you hear that's it let's go do you
3:15:30hear any more communication between the
3:15:32three guys
3:15:42okay
3:15:50okay so you're dialing 9-1-1 you've
3:15:52called the police
3:15:54you know you're on the phone with the
3:15:55dispatcher you're updating him as to
3:15:57what goes on
3:16:02it might
3:16:03i heard my dad going out the door and
3:16:05he's like yelling on the street
3:16:09okay and i'm calling for him but this
3:16:11dispatch lady i'm trying to
3:16:20so when the officers arrive
3:16:25how do you get untied
3:16:42do you remember at first they were all
3:16:44outside i i was screaming for them yeah
3:16:48and
3:16:50finally someone heard me
3:16:52they came up the stairs
3:16:59first they had to check all their rooms
3:17:01first but i just wanted them to get me
3:17:03out i don't want to be sitting there
3:17:14so they
3:17:15how did they get you free
3:17:19they grabbed a pair of scissors
3:17:22from my room
3:17:25but the officer said to wait a few
3:17:26minutes because he didn't know how to
3:17:29how to do it procedure
3:17:31i just wanted to get out
3:17:34i think it was near my dad
3:17:43he cut me
3:17:45he let me go
3:17:47but he
3:17:48he cut
3:17:49he cut the
3:17:58now you
3:17:59uh when you took all you off your
3:18:00sweater to show me the demonstration
3:18:02there's still some marks on your arm
3:18:04are those the marks from the string
3:18:07no
3:18:08where are they from
3:18:10from before
3:18:11okay so history-wise we'll go into that
3:18:14okay
3:18:15so
3:18:16now
3:18:19as an event as to try and see this is
3:18:23the uh the little epis the little
3:18:25technique that we use to try and see if
3:18:27there's something during the course of
3:18:29what you've told me
3:18:31that boom might trigger something
3:18:33another memory okay we're to start
3:18:37right now we're going to start at the
3:18:38point that you're being your the
3:18:40officers arrive
3:18:42okay
3:18:43and we're going backwards
3:18:45not nearly as i don't need you to go
3:18:46into the we're not going to be stopping
3:18:48here and going through to
3:18:50what about this and what about this
3:18:52it's you may come across something it's
3:18:54the reverse chronology of what you just
3:18:57described
3:18:58okay
3:19:00leading us back to
3:19:02the time you're in upstairs talking to
3:19:03edward
3:19:06so i want you to start right now with
3:19:08your
3:19:08police officers arrive and they're
3:19:10cutting you free and now let's start
3:19:12going backwards from that
3:19:41okay
3:19:43i just don't want to see you
3:19:49this is don't worry about saying wrong
3:19:51things because you'll be cl you'll be
3:19:52correcting them as you're moving moving
3:19:54backwards okay
3:19:55it's a very well practiced technique to
3:19:57help in memories so especially in
3:20:00traumatic events
3:20:10so my dad was he had been out the door
3:20:14yes
3:20:17and he was moaning
3:20:20[Music]
3:20:26and just before that
3:20:29they had left the
3:20:31people had left
3:20:47ugh
3:20:58number one heads head
3:21:01it's been too long
3:21:04let's go
3:21:15before that was the gunshots
3:21:23before that they were scolding my dad
3:21:24for lying because there was more money
3:21:27and he wasn't telling them where it was
3:21:48before that
3:21:54they were going down
3:22:01you're doing great okay you're doing
3:22:03great
3:22:10just before that they were going down
3:22:12the stairs
3:22:14but
3:22:15i could just hear my parents footsteps
3:22:18and my mom
3:22:20so i don't know how many of them went
3:22:22down
3:22:24but i know for sure number one was
3:22:26upstairs with me while they were
3:22:28starting to go down
3:22:31and then number one
3:22:34that's when like she was taking off my
3:22:36glasses and that's when he went down the
3:22:38stairs
3:22:48[Music]
3:23:00before that
3:23:06they tied me
3:23:17[Music]
3:23:20before that number two was upstairs as
3:23:22well
3:23:24and he was helping number one timey it's
3:23:27a banister
3:23:30before that number one turned to number
3:23:33two
3:23:34and said go get i need
3:23:37get me the string go get cuz
3:23:47that's when number two went down the
3:23:49stairs and came back up with the string
3:24:04before that
3:24:07number one had taken me
3:24:09and told me to sit down
3:24:13the top of the stairs
3:24:16number two was still in the bedroom
3:24:33so
3:24:46before that
3:25:08we were in my parents room
3:25:11and he was asking me about the wallet
3:25:13where's my dad's wallet
3:25:22i don't remember how they got the
3:25:23[Music]
3:25:34money worry about it keep going
3:25:48before that we always downstairs
3:25:52they're looking for my mom's purse
3:25:57number three was asking about the wallet
3:25:59number two was looking for my mom's
3:26:01purse
3:26:04my mom kept standing up and sitting down
3:26:08and i pushed her
3:26:28for that i was in my room
3:26:37that's when he tied me up
3:26:48but before that i showed him the money
3:26:51before that
3:26:54i had heard them toss my parents room
3:26:56and that's when i looked out
3:26:57no the guy went down the stairs and then
3:26:59i looked out
3:27:06that's when he came and he pulled out
3:27:07his gun and told me to sit on my bed
3:27:14before that
3:27:17i heard my mom
3:27:19tell my dad to come downstairs
3:27:22and that's when i told ed i'd call him
3:27:24back and put my phone
3:27:28my phone in my back
3:27:33is that okay yes
3:27:36when you said um that you saw
3:27:39during this process you heard the steps
3:27:41of the guy someone going downstairs did
3:27:42you hear your father going down the
3:27:44stairs
3:27:46that ever at that point in time
3:27:58i heard him get out of his room
3:28:04but then that's when i was telling ed
3:28:06that i'd call him back
3:28:08he was responding to your mom's command
3:28:11yes
3:28:16okay
3:28:19in your kitchen
3:28:23there is
3:28:25uh
3:28:26rear sliding doors
3:28:29is there not and you're in the back area
3:28:31to get out to the back of your house
3:28:33is it sliding glass doors
3:28:38how is that normally how do you what is
3:28:40the normal position of of the blinds or
3:28:43or whatever
3:28:44when you during the day do you keep them
3:28:46covered are they exposed can you easily
3:28:49have access to get out to the backyard
3:28:51or do you have to open them like how is
3:28:52the normal
3:28:54routine
3:29:00it differs from
3:29:05it differs from time of day and time of
3:29:07year
3:29:09my mom
3:29:19my mother likes to plant so
3:29:21in the daytime we have our blinds open
3:29:24um
3:29:27they're all the way out but they're open
3:29:28to that sunlight in
3:29:30and at night we close them
3:29:33of
3:29:33[Music]
3:29:35our backyard neighbors
3:29:38okay
3:29:40the sliding glass door
3:29:43is it locked all the time
3:29:46occasionally
3:29:49it's forgotten to be locked
3:29:52but
3:29:52for the most part we do check it before
3:29:54we go to bed
3:29:55before everybody the last person is
3:29:57supposed to check
3:29:58everything before turning in but on some
3:30:01occasions it's how do you know that it's
3:30:03been unlocked
3:30:04when
3:30:06my mother goes out to water the plants
3:30:07the next morning it's open and she makes
3:30:10a comment about that
3:30:11she comments to my father that he had
3:30:13forgotten when he went out to water his
3:30:15grass and the night before
3:30:19what about your front door how do you
3:30:21what is that when you guys are home or
3:30:24when you guys are home in the house do
3:30:26you lock your front door do you keep it
3:30:29or do you keep it all up unlocked
3:30:33occasionally it's left unlocked
3:30:36because
3:30:40the way our family is we have family
3:30:42that come over after dinner so sometimes
3:30:44we leave the door unlocked but it will
3:30:47always be locked before bed the last
3:30:49person going into bed
3:30:50the last person always locks him yes
3:30:53and you said something about
3:30:55activates the alarm as well um we
3:30:59activate the alarm before we go or we
3:31:01leave the house
3:31:02so there's it's not activated when
3:31:04you're in the house and you're going to
3:31:05bed it's only when there's no one in the
3:31:07house
3:31:08yes
3:31:10um
3:31:19when was the last time that you went out
3:31:20through the back the back sliding glass
3:31:22doors that you remember
3:31:30oh
3:31:31while
3:31:32i'd say
3:31:35the only time i go back there is if i'm
3:31:37barbecuing
3:31:42the occasion my mom needs help carrying
3:31:50she needs help carrying something heavy
3:31:52okay
3:31:55what about a stranger's knock on your
3:31:56door
3:32:02whoever's
3:32:03downstairs normally goes to answered
3:32:06will they look out or will they just
3:32:07open the door no uh
3:32:10they tried to look through the sheerness
3:32:12of our curtain
3:32:15would you have you ever heard your mom
3:32:17or dad like if there's someone at the
3:32:18door who they don't recognize to go away
3:32:20and they won't open the door or will
3:32:22they always open the door to find out
3:32:23who even if they don't recognize someone
3:32:25well they try to go as quietly as
3:32:27possible
3:32:28and if they don't
3:32:30like a telemarketer or something they
3:32:31just walk away
3:32:34okay so
3:32:37i think we've
3:32:40if there's something else that i can
3:32:41that'll that pops into my head while or
3:32:43when i go out to talk to them later if
3:32:45there's something else that they want to
3:32:47ask me i'll come back to it
3:32:49what i want to do now is i want to go
3:32:51into your past
3:32:53okay
3:32:57and start talking about things that have
3:32:58been going on with you
3:33:01in
3:33:03in relation to your life okay
3:33:06you know not i'm not going back to
3:33:08childhood that's not my interest is
3:33:11obviously in the last few years is
3:33:13what's going on
3:33:15do you have a boyfriend
3:33:17i had a boyfriend but no i don't have
3:33:20one what what's your which what was your
3:33:21boyfriend's name daniel daniel what
3:33:25tell me about your relationship with you
3:33:27and daniel
3:33:30it was a really tough one
3:33:34um
3:33:36we went to high school together
3:33:38he helped me through a really difficult
3:33:40time in high school
3:33:42when i
3:33:44have asthma but
3:33:45it
3:33:46it wasn't a concern
3:33:48it was only a concern i was younger
3:33:51but when i went over to europe
3:33:55a lot of sick people were smoking
3:33:57cigarettes and it acted up over there
3:33:59and he took care of me over there when
3:34:01did you go to europe
3:34:052003
3:34:06okay and how long were you there for
3:34:12under two weeks i think okay
3:34:15so this is 2003 when you and danny were
3:34:18started dating
3:34:19no well later on in 2003 we were just
3:34:21friends
3:34:22okay what grade were you in at that
3:34:24point 11 11.
3:34:27[Music]
3:34:28so how does your relationship with danny
3:34:30develop where does it go and how long
3:34:32does it last
3:34:34lasted about six years
3:34:37um
3:34:38it began in the summer
3:34:40of 2003 before my grade 12 year
3:34:44we were just really good friends and
3:34:47i guess it just
3:34:48happened like we just
3:34:50started going out
3:34:52while saying that we were going out
3:34:54but um
3:34:56i didn't really get to see him much
3:34:59let's talk about that why did you get
3:35:00the chance to see him much
3:35:03i wasn't allowed to have a boyfriend
3:35:06and that was when you were 18.
3:35:09i was 17. 17 turning in your 18th year
3:35:13maybe grade 11 or going through
3:35:14indication going to grade 12. okay
3:35:17and uh so who was against you having a
3:35:20boyfriend
3:35:21my father
3:35:22your father how is your mother in this
3:35:26she
3:35:28took a back seat to his opinion um
3:35:32she would
3:35:34tell me that i got to find someone who
3:35:35was devoted to me
3:35:37but
3:35:38at that time she just my father was the
3:35:40one that enforced the rules and what
3:35:42were the issues your father had with a
3:35:44boyfriend was it danny in particular or
3:35:46was it just a boy just any boy
3:35:49at that point
3:35:50so
3:35:52what happens how are you saying that
3:35:54you're not allowed to see this what what
3:35:56i know
3:35:57i know that
3:35:59there's certain ways that you can still
3:36:00get around your father not allowing you
3:36:02to see it when in grade 12
3:36:04we went to school together he
3:36:06transferred out
3:36:08but he'd come over
3:36:10to our original high school and he'd
3:36:12come see me
3:36:14okay and
3:36:15once in a while i'd go and
3:36:17skip class and go see him
3:36:19so you were seeing you were dating him
3:36:21essentially without your parents
3:36:23knowledge and consent yes what would
3:36:25they have done to you if they found out
3:36:27and did they find it
3:36:29not in high school okay
3:36:32so you finish high school and then what
3:36:34do you do when you finish high school
3:36:40i was
3:36:42i wanted to do
3:36:44kinesiology
3:36:46but my
3:36:47my father was very adamant on
3:36:49doing something
3:36:51in the medical field that was a little
3:36:53bit more
3:36:55um in his opinion more
3:37:00like a more successful
3:37:02i guess you can say um he knew i didn't
3:37:04have the stomach for being a doctor
3:37:06um so he wanted me to become a
3:37:08pharmacist
3:37:09okay
3:37:10did you go to school for pharmacy to get
3:37:12into university for pharmacy
3:37:14so
3:37:15if you're being you finish your grade 12
3:37:17you go to y your oic year
3:37:20like grade 12 is you're finished your
3:37:21oic here i don't have always i didn't
3:37:23have oac i finished my grade 12. and
3:37:25then where
3:37:27where do you what do you do for the next
3:37:28few years while your dads want you to
3:37:30get into the medical field what do you
3:37:31do
3:37:32i was trying to get into piano
3:37:36what school
3:37:37i i was still taking classes at a
3:37:39conservative like a a school but is
3:37:41still recognized in the community as a
3:37:44teacher's license through the royal
3:37:45conservatory
3:37:47okay so
3:37:50how is this interaction how is this
3:37:52going with your dad how is the how is
3:37:53your home life with the you're not
3:37:57now not living up to his expectations
3:37:59you didn't know i lied to him what did
3:38:01you lie to him what did you tell him
3:38:03that i was going to school
3:38:06four
3:38:07uh four just pre-me uh not pre-med sorry
3:38:10science for science bachelor of science
3:38:14you would have had bills for school how
3:38:16was how was that coming up how are these
3:38:18bills being paid for for university that
3:38:19you weren't going to i was working at
3:38:21eastside marios and
3:38:24i took care of myself
3:38:27so financially
3:38:28my father was never
3:38:31he never took hand in bills
3:38:34so he didn't know anything about pills
3:38:36did your mom know that you weren't going
3:38:37to university no
3:38:39so both your parents thought you had
3:38:41gone to university yes
3:38:43okay
3:38:44and um
3:38:46how long did that how long did they
3:38:48still to this point in time think that
3:38:50you had gone to university for for
3:38:51pharmacy for sciences
3:38:56and
3:38:58how did you feel about that how did you
3:38:59feel about having to lie to your parents
3:39:01i felt guilty but every time i tried to
3:39:04bring it up
3:39:08there was just so much
3:39:12so much expectation
3:39:16do you have any resentment towards them
3:39:17for this
3:39:20i chose
3:39:21what i chose
3:39:22um but in the end i chose my family
3:39:26okay so
3:39:28now you're not allowed to see boys how
3:39:30do you continue really your relationship
3:39:32while you're supposed to be at
3:39:33university working at eastside marios
3:39:35are you working during the day to cite
3:39:36marriage um sometimes but not all the
3:39:39time
3:39:41so how do how do you maintain this
3:39:43relationship with uh with dan
3:39:45um i
3:39:46bust down to see him or my parents would
3:39:48drive me down to toronto
3:39:51and they thought i was getting going to
3:39:54school
3:39:55but i'd go see him and i'd come back
3:39:56what school did they think you're going
3:39:58to rare
3:39:59okay
3:40:03was daniel aware of what was going on in
3:40:05here with the issues in your life with
3:40:06your parents not at first but eventually
3:40:09he found out
3:40:11okay
3:40:12and um
3:40:15what would your parents do find out did
3:40:17they ever find out that you were dating
3:40:18danny daniel eventually well how long
3:40:20into their relationship was that
3:40:23say five years five years so that brings
3:40:25you up to 2008 or 2009 2008 2007 2008.
3:40:33and how do they find out
3:40:37my mother saw him dropping me off
3:40:40at the locat pacific mall where they
3:40:42come to pick me up
3:40:45and how did that go over
3:40:48not well
3:40:50explain to me what not well means
3:40:57my mother
3:40:59she
3:41:01said at first she was
3:41:03like
3:41:04not supportive but she said you need to
3:41:06tell me
3:41:08and she basically gave me the
3:41:11um
3:41:12the sex talk which basically was one
3:41:14moment could ruin your entire life
3:41:19um
3:41:20but once my father found out
3:41:22without even knowing him he
3:41:24automatically
3:41:25put judgment
3:41:27what kind of judgment did your father
3:41:28pass on him
3:41:30he blamed my lying and
3:41:35even
3:41:36racial
3:41:39profiling
3:41:41on him and what does that mean i don't
3:41:42know about the racial profiling um he is
3:41:45half filipino half chinese yes and my
3:41:48father
3:41:50associated him with filipino and said
3:41:53that you know he wasn't a good match for
3:41:56me
3:41:57he wasn't going anywhere in life and
3:42:01that
3:42:03he wouldn't be able to support a family
3:42:08so tell me about
3:42:09about daniel
3:42:11uh
3:42:12we've interviewed daniel
3:42:14okay
3:42:15so tell me about daniel
3:43:36he was i believe uh
3:43:39selling
3:43:40selling
3:43:41selling some marijuana i believe
3:43:43okay
3:43:44you weren't aware that he was up to this
3:43:47type of business is that what you're is
3:43:48that what you're saying to me yes
3:43:51so um
3:43:52when he is
3:43:56when your parents find out
3:43:58what happens to you at home
3:44:02they
3:44:04pretty much uh
3:44:06make sure that i wouldn't contact him
3:44:09again and how do they do that
3:44:11they take away my cell phone and
3:44:13restrict internet access
3:44:16like they have to be in the room or not
3:44:18at all
3:44:21do you have a curfew
3:44:23if i go out with a friend that they know
3:44:26i have to be home before nine
3:44:28four nine o'clock yes
3:44:30and is that even up until
3:44:33monday
3:44:34did you have a curfew up until monday
3:44:36uh technically but i don't i haven't
3:44:39gone out for a while and why is it that
3:44:41you haven't gone anywhere
3:44:44because they gave me an ultimatum
3:44:46to either choose
3:44:48daniel or to choose them about
3:44:51a year and a half ago
3:44:52or two about a year and a half ago
3:44:55and i chose to stay home with my family
3:44:58but
3:44:59even though he had moved on
3:45:01i we still
3:45:03wanted to be friends
3:45:06we went through a lot i was there
3:45:09for him and he was there for me when we
3:45:10needed each other
3:45:12so i
3:45:14whenever i could i would sneak a phone
3:45:15call here sneak a phone call there
3:45:18i'd ask a friend of mine to pick me up
3:45:21and
3:45:22take me to see him
3:45:23and then take me back
3:45:25who was that friend
3:45:27uh gary
3:45:29gary gary gibson gibson
3:45:33i met gary through daniel
3:45:35and he
3:45:38he picked me up and took me to see
3:45:39daniel and he made sure i got home
3:45:42afterwards
3:45:43so tell me about uh how come your
3:45:45parents
3:45:46allow you to speak to edward or to
3:45:49adrian in fact allow adrian into the
3:45:51house
3:45:52adrian has been a friend of mine since
3:45:55uh
3:45:56beginning of high school
3:45:58um he
3:46:01my parents agree with
3:46:04his
3:46:06how do i explain this he went to school
3:46:08for engineering
3:46:11um he had a job
3:46:13and his mother
3:46:15was is a piano teacher as well like
3:46:18myself
3:46:19so in their eyes
3:46:20he had like
3:46:22a well
3:46:24a well-rounded life
3:46:26and because he didn't he took me out
3:46:29once
3:46:30like once in a while but not really but
3:46:33because he
3:46:34he has a car of his own so he comes over
3:46:37therefore they were able to interact
3:46:39with him and
3:46:40accepted him okay what about edward
3:46:44um edward was an old co-worker of mine
3:46:49edward only met my mom once at a gym
3:46:52at when we went to the gym
3:46:54um i introduced him to my mom
3:46:56but uh he
3:46:59he only stops by when my parents are not
3:47:01home
3:47:02for about
3:47:04an hour or so just to catch up but i
3:47:06haven't gone out to actually like
3:47:09we talk on the phone but that's
3:47:11pretty much
3:47:12i tried to meet him at the gym but
3:47:14that's
3:47:15so for the last year and a half since
3:47:16you chose the ultimatum was given to you
3:47:19as you in your words
3:47:21it's either daniel and or your family
3:47:25yes
3:47:26and you say that you chose your family
3:47:27and you stayed home what have you been
3:47:29when when you say i stayed home
3:47:31what is your routine tell me for the
3:47:33last year and a half what what have you
3:47:35been doing
3:47:36i have been continuing my piano studies
3:47:39and my parents um enrolled me back into
3:47:42school
3:47:44into college into college at first i
3:47:46didn't have enough marks to get into the
3:47:48program i wanted so i had to do one year
3:47:51of uh
3:47:52like refresh a course of a calculus high
3:47:54school credit
3:47:55and they never said
3:47:57to you
3:48:00can get in and graduate
3:48:01with a a science degree but you can't
3:48:04take that and now get in they never
3:48:06question you about college now you can't
3:48:09you don't have the marks to get into
3:48:10college how did you get around that
3:48:14i lied to them and said that calculus
3:48:16wasn't a big thing when i first applied
3:48:20uh one science but now calculus is more
3:48:22of a mandatory course
3:48:25what um
3:48:28and when was this happening that you
3:48:30were going back to school
3:48:32uh recently uh i went back
3:48:34last summer
3:48:36what's which college uh i went to high
3:48:38school yeah school program
3:48:40um it was that
3:48:42very
3:48:44i believe it's brave buff
3:48:47on steel than bayview and you graduated
3:48:50with that yard you've you've not i
3:48:52completed the credit uh at upgrading my
3:48:54mark and have you did you apply to
3:48:56college yes and you were accepted i'm
3:48:58accepted for january at which college uh
3:49:01centennial college okay
3:49:03in what program
3:49:05biobiotechnology
3:49:09biotechnology engineering
3:49:11okay
3:49:12so
3:49:16the last year and a half you've been
3:49:18doing your piano studies yes
3:49:21what is your routine
3:49:23like daily routine for the last year and
3:49:24half when you say that i chose my family
3:49:26i chose to stay home
3:49:28well at first i
3:49:30continued phone contact with daniel
3:49:33but
3:49:34that only lasted
3:49:36about one time i like i told you gary
3:49:40came to pick me up to go see daniel
3:49:42and i got caught
3:49:45and
3:49:47that's when
3:49:48they took away my cell phone
3:49:50and they said that they'd drive me
3:49:52places
3:49:54and so pretty much i wake up i do my
3:49:57piano studies
3:49:59i may
3:50:00go see my teacher for lessons
3:50:03at first they took me but then
3:50:06once my teacher was like yeah she's with
3:50:08me
3:50:09i was able to go and see him at his
3:50:12house
3:50:13once a week
3:50:15sometimes it was once every other week
3:50:16if he was busy
3:50:18and then i had um another studies at a
3:50:21place called euro music
3:50:23for the actual pedagogy course which is
3:50:25the actual teaching course
3:50:27and uh
3:50:29i went to those two classes once a week
3:50:31as well
3:50:32and pretty much it was home
3:50:35help up with housework and
3:50:38practice my piano and
3:50:41just wait for the college application
3:50:44college acceptance and did you go out
3:50:46were you allowed to go out at night
3:50:48i don't go out no the only time i went
3:50:51out was
3:50:54last time i went out
3:50:56was for my
3:51:01for my one uh my um
3:51:04my birthday
3:51:05and i was able a week ago to go see
3:51:09my friend
3:51:10on how on the night of halloween my mom
3:51:11would help
3:51:12um do a dance
3:51:14dance thing sorry it was saturday night
3:51:16not halloween night it was hella weekend
3:51:18saturday night um
3:51:20my friend topaz and i had made plans but
3:51:24my grandfather we wanted to go skating
3:51:26because i love to skate and since they
3:51:29know topaz and
3:51:31they
3:51:32like they confirmed that she was in fact
3:51:34going with me to skating and they have
3:51:36her number to call her to make sure i
3:51:38was there
3:51:40um
3:51:41and that i'd call when i got to her
3:51:42house um
3:51:44i got there and
3:51:46because i had let my friends know that
3:51:48my grandfather was ill and that i wasn't
3:51:50100 sure she didn't she has a child so
3:51:53she could make plans
3:51:54to
3:51:55get her child a babysitter so we just
3:51:58stayed at her house with her husband
3:52:01for about
3:52:02seven days maybe an hour
3:52:07this other phone that danny
3:52:10that daniel gets to how long do you are
3:52:13you able to keep that from your parents
3:52:14attention
3:52:16and how long are you in how long do you
3:52:19have that phone
3:52:24you've had it for three months
3:52:26the last three months
3:52:28and when do you switch from just using
3:52:30the phone to just pulling the sim card
3:52:32and using it just using some pulling sim
3:52:34card texting
3:52:36and then
3:52:42okay so
3:52:43this sim card that you say was in your
3:52:45jacket pocket which jacket is it that
3:52:47you're talking about
3:52:48um
3:52:49i have a black
3:52:51jacket with a furry
3:52:53yes that i use in the fall
3:52:56and the last time you knew about it it
3:52:57was inside that jacket jacket yes and
3:53:00you believe you would believe there's no
3:53:01reason why it wouldn't still be there
3:53:03yes okay
3:53:05and where would that jacket be
3:53:06located either hanging
3:53:09in my room or hanging
3:53:11uh behind uh by the garage
3:53:14the door mud room area what we call the
3:53:16mud room area the garage door is it a
3:53:17laundry room where there's where you
3:53:19come in from the garage yeah okay it's
3:53:21not a laundry room but uh it's like a
3:53:23little neck little nook there's no the
3:53:24laundry is down we took the laundry
3:53:26downstairs okay
3:53:28um
3:53:31danny danny and
3:53:33and um
3:53:34his activities his his drug-related
3:53:37activities
3:53:38did you ever engage or assist him in
3:53:40this in this practice
3:53:42no
3:53:43i told him i did not want anything to do
3:53:45with it
3:53:47um
3:53:49it's a tough question right is that are
3:53:52you involved in any type of illegal
3:53:54activity
3:53:56that would draw the attention of these
3:53:58type of people to come to your house
3:54:00looking for something i have never
3:54:03what about your parents
3:54:06not to my knowledge
3:54:07well
3:54:08not to your knowledge like are your
3:54:11parents
3:54:12is there any source of money coming into
3:54:14your house that is unaccounted for
3:54:17no
3:54:19would it be something that your parents
3:54:20would engage in uh gambling or illegal
3:54:24or illegal drug activity no well not i
3:54:27help my mother with all the bills and
3:54:29everything and
3:54:30nothing she never does it have like
3:54:33anything
3:54:34how new was that basement
3:54:37like the setup of the basement
3:54:40graduated in 2004
3:54:43we moved in in 2004.
3:54:47i believe we moved in for about a year
3:54:50so i'd say either 2005
3:54:53or 2006.
3:54:54they moved it you guys moved in
3:54:56renovated yes
3:54:58and um and at that time the basement was
3:55:01completed yes were your parents working
3:55:03at both at that time
3:55:08when we first moved into 2004 my father
3:55:10was unemployed he had got laid off from
3:55:14magna yeah
3:55:15my mother had transferred up to a place
3:55:17in new market
3:55:20then my father found the job at
3:55:22where he
3:55:23he was currently working at
3:55:25kobe and style
3:55:28and then
3:55:29i forgot the year
3:55:33my mother got laid off
3:55:36i believe in
3:55:382008
3:55:41or so
3:55:42and she's been looking for a job and
3:55:44been at home
3:55:46now
3:55:48[Music]
3:55:54after talking to daniel and when's the
3:55:56last time you
3:55:57you text message or communicated with
3:55:59him was when my grandfather was ill
3:56:03have you
3:56:04have you been experiencing anything
3:56:07what you would call in the last little
3:56:09while of any type of threats
3:56:11or threatening behavior
3:56:13yes
3:56:14tell me about that
3:56:15um
3:56:16his
3:56:18i don't well he says it's
3:56:20just a friend but everyone says it's his
3:56:22girlfriend
3:56:24she has messaged me
3:56:26telling me to back off to leave daniel
3:56:29alone
3:56:31and
3:56:32he's messaged me and he's like is that
3:56:34you calling but i wasn't calling or be
3:56:37on the phone with him he's like your
3:56:38other my roger's line because i called
3:56:40him on the
3:56:42phone he gave me yes
3:56:44and he'd say that my rogers line was
3:56:46calling him
3:56:47and when i looked into it it was like on
3:56:50the on my bills those phone calls were
3:56:53made but i know
3:56:54i didn't make them
3:56:57so i couldn't explain it
3:57:01and i did get a letter in the mail
3:57:04saying that uh you're a dead person
3:57:06walking
3:57:09now why didn't you tell me about that
3:57:12class when i spoke to you the other day
3:57:16i
3:57:17everything had just happened i wasn't
3:57:22it was it just simply a letter
3:57:24yes it was uh cut out
3:57:27where is that letter
3:57:29it's garbage
3:57:31in the garbage yes
3:57:35i didn't think too much of it at that
3:57:37time
3:57:38and what did you equate it to
3:57:41just
3:57:42jealousy
3:57:44you still equating it to the friend of
3:57:46the girlfriend
3:57:47well i don't want to
3:57:49like i don't know 100 so i don't want to
3:57:52point fingers why so if you're not 100
3:57:55and you don't want to point fingers why
3:57:58do you believe it's her
3:57:59because she has personally messaged me
3:58:01on facebook
3:58:02telling me that i'm stupid and to back
3:58:05off and to leave daniel alone
3:58:09okay and sometimes when i text him
3:58:13she texts me using his phone telling me
3:58:16that he's with his girlfriend christine
3:58:18and to leave him alone
3:58:23the
3:58:27is there something that happened to you
3:58:29that you never disclosed to the police
3:58:30before
3:58:32um
3:58:35that is something i lied to him about
3:58:38okay tell me about that
3:58:40um
3:58:41i told him i was raped but i was just
3:58:45very depressed and
3:58:49sorry this is very embarrassing don't
3:58:50don't do you haven't reported it to the
3:58:52police right this is a this is an
3:58:54interaction between you and an
3:58:55ex-boyfriend okay so you're not in any
3:58:57trouble for this and it's important that
3:58:59we clear it up because he's telling us
3:59:01stuff
3:59:02and then we're coming back to you so
3:59:04this is something i lied to him about
3:59:07okay um
3:59:08and why did you say you were depressed
3:59:10and and when did this happen when did
3:59:11this what did you tell him about this
3:59:15maybe a year ago a year ago
3:59:17and what was it that you told me
3:59:20that
3:59:22someone came to the door
3:59:24and when i went to open the door uh they
3:59:26pushed me down and raped me
3:59:29did they did you give descriptions did
3:59:31you provide descriptions to them about
3:59:32it to him about it
3:59:36i might have i
3:59:38i don't remember exactly what i said
3:59:41okay
3:59:42but you're telling me to my face that
3:59:45this never happened this never happened
3:59:47okay
3:59:48so it's not
3:59:49this isn't something that we need to be
3:59:51looking at as something that's tied to
3:59:53this no this is that was my lie to him
3:59:56okay for attention
3:59:59now
4:00:00did he what was his reaction to that
4:00:04report it
4:00:07but it wasn't real so i didn't report it
4:00:11okay
4:00:12now
4:00:13um
4:00:17we did did you ever would you ever have
4:00:19a figure if danny if daniel stopped
4:00:21being a drug dealer or engaged in or is
4:00:24he still dealing with that again this is
4:00:26not criminal it's
4:00:27more in lines of
4:00:29you know what would link
4:00:31someone to think that they're coming to
4:00:32your house for a large quantity for
4:00:34money
4:00:35which is an obvious question
4:00:37i don't
4:00:39i've asked him what he's up to and he
4:00:40just says running like doing runs
4:00:44but i don't ask him into detail so when
4:00:46he says he's doing runs you're equating
4:00:48that too he's running still running
4:00:50drugs
4:00:51running errands running drugs seeing
4:00:53people i
4:00:55you just didn't ask him i just kind of
4:00:56went blind ear because i'm not with him
4:00:59okay
4:01:00did you ever receive um again coming
4:01:03from we're going to ask it did you ever
4:01:04receive any other type of
4:01:06threatening text messages that you know
4:01:10more than just words of what a person
4:01:12says uh you know don't see him or don't
4:01:14did you ever read receive anything that
4:01:16was threatening yeah i did get um
4:01:21some
4:01:22but
4:01:24i couldn't uh that's what i'm looking
4:01:26for it said that we have people
4:01:29that can erase this
4:01:30message um
4:01:33but it was just words it was just
4:01:36just stay away
4:01:37what were the words
4:01:38just stay away stay away chris
4:01:41chrissy and daniko won one
4:01:43[Music]
4:01:44life one destiny or something like that
4:01:48so it was more in line with danny and
4:01:50this more in line with the world pretty
4:01:52much just like for me to stay away
4:01:54there was never any
4:01:56threat to the threat to you
4:01:58from any other anonymous it always seems
4:02:01to you to have
4:02:03the heir of danny's girlfriend or friend
4:02:05that's sending these threats
4:02:07just
4:02:09he says that is not her
4:02:11but from them all the messages are
4:02:13pretty much just to leave him alone so
4:02:14he can be happy
4:02:16okay
4:02:17but there's no
4:02:18uh there's no phone number that these
4:02:20things are coming back from no being
4:02:22sent from no
4:02:25um did you i know it's absurd but i
4:02:27couldn't explain it
4:02:29no well i don't i
4:02:32uh with the technology today uh anything
4:02:35is possible i'm not i'm not i'd never be
4:02:37able to to look you in the face and say
4:02:39that's not possible because
4:02:42what kids can do with computers and do
4:02:43with technology i i you know anything in
4:02:46my opinion is now but it was just words
4:02:49it was never
4:02:51more than that anything to the effect of
4:02:53seeing bang bang bang
4:02:56to me yes no
4:02:58are you aware of someone else getting a
4:03:00message like that daniel said that he
4:03:01got messages saying fun fun fun bang
4:03:04bang bang
4:03:06and what did he ever equate that to
4:03:09he tell you
4:03:11he just said these messages basically
4:03:13kept telling him to make sure i stayed
4:03:14away from him
4:03:16and to make that girl happy
4:03:19okay and that they knew what he was up
4:03:21to
4:03:23they even said that they
4:03:25knew like
4:03:27what are like i'd text him something and
4:03:30for some reason they knew that i texted
4:03:32him
4:03:33and that they knew that i called him
4:03:34stuff like that
4:03:36do you have um
4:03:40have you ever received other than that
4:03:43letter
4:03:44that other thing i also made up the
4:03:47bullet in the mail
4:03:49and how long ago was that
4:03:52just a few months ago okay and was that
4:03:54an attention grabber for him again
4:03:56yes you still have feelings for daniel
4:03:58don't you
4:04:00yes
4:04:01okay so you're having trouble with that
4:04:02you're having trouble getting over the
4:04:04fact that the relationship is over
4:04:06because of the terms of how it happened
4:04:08i've accepted that that it's over but i
4:04:11still
4:04:12want to take care of him
4:04:14but unfortunately i made a decision and
4:04:17i need i had to stick by it
4:04:19your relationship with daniel was broken
4:04:21up because of your parents ultimatum not
4:04:23because she didn't care for him anymore
4:04:25yes
4:04:26that's that's an obvious what you can
4:04:28say right because you still have
4:04:30feelings and you're still trying to
4:04:31trigger them with the bullet
4:04:33you know even just that that are these
4:04:35text messages are receiving are they
4:04:37fictitious are you making that up no
4:04:40a hundred percent
4:04:42okay
4:04:43now the letter you received
4:04:46is it fictitious or did he make it up or
4:04:48or sorry is it fictitious or is it real
4:04:50it's real it's real
4:04:52and how sorry no it just happened like
4:04:55before most of this stuff happened so i
4:04:57just brushed it aside
4:05:00okay so it happened before what most of
4:05:01what stuff happened most of like before
4:05:04i knew about her and before i knew
4:05:07like before she messaged me ever okay
4:05:11now
4:05:12how often did you use this other phone i
4:05:14just said you said it was back
4:05:16when your father that's the last time
4:05:18you used it but how many times would you
4:05:20you know like from the last year like
4:05:22once a day
4:05:24once a day or usually
4:05:26um
4:05:27yeah once a day who was paying for that
4:05:30daniel daniel was paying for that
4:05:37um
4:05:38so the the incident those two incidents
4:05:41that you made up the bullet and and the
4:05:44being raped those never happened no
4:05:49is there anything else you can think of
4:05:51in this
4:05:52were you dating anyone else do you see
4:05:54anyone else during these during during
4:05:56this year and a half day off
4:05:59dating no no no
4:06:01i just i saw adrian because he came he
4:06:04came over but i wasn't seeing him like
4:06:06romantically or anything
4:06:08um
4:06:09i
4:06:11saw just my uh tight-knit group of
4:06:14friends which are
4:06:16my girlfriends topaz topaz yes topaz
4:06:19last name
4:06:21topaz chew uh her husband chihei tong
4:06:24and where okay we won't say where they
4:06:26live because it's being videoed but i
4:06:27need to get an idea if we haven't spoken
4:06:29to him we'd like to speak to them okay
4:06:31who else
4:06:32um
4:06:34adrian chung he lives in
4:06:37he lives away but sometimes he comes
4:06:39into town and he'll come to my house and
4:06:42ask my parents to take me out just for a
4:06:43coffee to catch up about half hour and
4:06:45then he takes me back home okay
4:06:47that's that's three who else is tight
4:06:49adrian
4:06:51um adrian who
4:06:52we
4:06:56we've spoken to already edward uh
4:06:58specifically and and so he's in that
4:07:01loop of tight-knit friends uh no he's uh
4:07:04separate okay who else is in this other
4:07:06tight-knit group of friends
4:07:08well we're it tight but i don't speak to
4:07:10them often um cecilia peng
4:07:14and jerome we fall in and out like
4:07:16periodically like maybe a couple months
4:07:18where we talk almost
4:07:20every week and then sometimes we go a
4:07:22month or two without talking jerome do
4:07:24you
4:07:25okay
4:07:26um
4:07:28so that's adrian adrian topaz chihay
4:07:33cecilia
4:07:35myself and
4:07:37um
4:07:38there's one more carson
4:07:43i forgot his last name
4:07:47he's more like a fur he
4:07:49him and myself aren't that close but he
4:07:51does
4:07:52hang around all of us if we go to um for
4:07:55example when my friend had a baby we
4:07:57were all there together now what about
4:08:00again i
4:08:01apologize for the name gary gibson
4:08:03gibbons or gibson gibson
4:08:06where is he in this i haven't talked
4:08:09spoken to him in
4:08:10a long time i'd say about a year but
4:08:12prior to that we spoke quite a bit
4:08:16yeah but he was your link to danny right
4:08:19did you get to danny to drop you off
4:08:20well he he spoke to he'd call daniel if
4:08:23i like if he didn't answer my calls and
4:08:25um
4:08:26we hung out on our own as well
4:08:28what do you know about daniel's
4:08:29girlfriend christine
4:08:33the only thing i know is that she's
4:08:34living with her father
4:08:37when we were in high school she lost her
4:08:39mother
4:08:42i believe she has a child
4:08:44and
4:08:45i don't know where the father is in that
4:08:48um daniel's told me that this is just
4:08:51what daniel has told me that uh she's
4:08:53going through a custody battle
4:08:56and uh that
4:08:58every time i ask him like are you
4:09:00what are you doing he's like making runs
4:09:02with christine
4:09:03so
4:09:04making runs with christine
4:09:07and i'm sorry when you say
4:09:09what runs would you know for me
4:09:11listening to making a run are you making
4:09:14would you draw the inference that that's
4:09:16back to the drug business i would but i
4:09:18kind of
4:09:20i didn't go more into that
4:09:22don't go more into it what do you what
4:09:23do you take that as as just hearing it
4:09:26at face value that he was going to meet
4:09:28somebody for drugs and christine's along
4:09:30for the ride
4:09:32i was told like in his words that he was
4:09:35the one taking her to go see people that
4:09:38she knew
4:09:40that she knew yes okay
4:09:43and that everything was at her house or
4:09:45something like that
4:09:48okay
4:09:50i want you to sit tight
4:09:52do you want to get you some water yes
4:09:54please okay i want you to sit tight i'm
4:09:56just going to go talk to uh to deborah
4:09:58she's ever glad she's been monitoring
4:10:00i'm also going to talk to the primary
4:10:01investigator okay
4:10:03um we're going to get you some water
4:10:05and and we're sort of moving through
4:10:07this this is great okay i appreciate the
4:10:09fact that you're honest with me to tell
4:10:11me that these things were made up
4:10:13okay
4:10:14it's very important i can't lie right
4:10:15and
4:10:16you can't because
4:10:18well if you're if you were raped and you
4:10:20received bullets
4:10:21those are some pretty significant
4:10:22threats right i understand okay um
4:10:26there was also one other thing
4:10:29we were getting private phone calls
4:10:33at my house as well
4:10:34i never told my brother because he was
4:10:36at school
4:10:39when we picked up they'd always hang up
4:10:42and
4:10:43one time
4:10:45my father had picked up
4:10:47and
4:10:48like i said mondays my mother would go
4:10:50dancing yes and
4:10:53when
4:10:54this one time
4:10:55i picked up the phone my father was
4:10:57already on the phone
4:10:58and there was this woman on the other
4:10:59line and i don't know who it was
4:11:02and
4:11:02they were speaking chinese which
4:11:04is a little bit off for me because my
4:11:08father's chinese isn't
4:11:10isn't his first language okay
4:11:13and uh my father doesn't even know i was
4:11:15on the line
4:11:16but this woman was saying you have to
4:11:18come over right away right away you have
4:11:20to come now
4:11:22and my father kept saying i can't come
4:11:24over
4:11:25no and she's like i don't care you have
4:11:27to come now.
4:11:29um like i said he still does to this day
4:11:32doesn't know that i heard that
4:11:33conversation and
4:11:36um
4:11:37when he went
4:11:40downstairs to see me because i was in
4:11:42the main on the main floor he was
4:11:43upstairs when he answered the phone
4:11:45he was like i'm going to go and uh my
4:11:48cousin michelle
4:11:50she said i'm going to go to michelle's
4:11:52house to i believe their tap was running
4:11:55or he had he's a handyman with a
4:11:57housework so
4:11:58they asked him to fix it but i believe i
4:12:01don't remember where they were they were
4:12:03out
4:12:04and i remember because i was uh i
4:12:06believe this is during the summer of
4:12:08this past year 2010 yes like summer of
4:12:102010
4:12:12and
4:12:13me and michelle we went to do we go to
4:12:15the gym together
4:12:16so
4:12:17uh she had mentioned that day
4:12:19that she had
4:12:22i i'm sorry i don't remember what but
4:12:24she had an errand turn with her mother
4:12:25and i was like i think it was a doctor's
4:12:27appointment or something and i told my
4:12:28dad that i believe they're out they're
4:12:30not home
4:12:31and he's like i'm gonna go
4:12:33so he left
4:12:35and when he left
4:12:37um i had called my my aunt had i believe
4:12:39my aunt called me back where i had
4:12:41called her somehow we connected with
4:12:43each other and they said that he uh they
4:12:44were not home yet but they're on their
4:12:46way they would be there about half hour
4:12:49but my father never came home
4:12:51and
4:12:53my father says he was driving around
4:12:54their block
4:12:56waiting for them but
4:12:58when i confronted him i said i thought
4:13:00they were uh they said that they weren't
4:13:02home and he's like i was driving around
4:13:03the block
4:13:04but when i had
4:13:06i didn't know how to process this and so
4:13:08i confided in michelle when we're at the
4:13:10gym
4:13:11and she said that
4:13:13when she came home she did drive
4:13:15because
4:13:16they have
4:13:18her garages in the back of her house
4:13:20so there's like a street way that's just
4:13:22garages and when my father goes over he
4:13:25likes to use the back door and knocks on
4:13:27the door in the back door because it's
4:13:28convenient because everyone's in the
4:13:30back of the house usually with the
4:13:31kitchen
4:13:32um so she said that she ran like she
4:13:34drove in two circles before
4:13:37and she drove around to check before
4:13:40she went in but my father was never
4:13:41there
4:13:42does did michelle speak chinese yes
4:13:46um
4:13:47yes yes she does is your aunt
4:13:49this is your cousin is michelle yes my
4:13:50cousin michelle yes and your aunt's name
4:13:52is uh
4:13:57and so did was your father ever at that
4:14:00house
4:14:00eventually she said that he did come
4:14:02over and he helped them out and came
4:14:05back home
4:14:06but when you listened on the phone line
4:14:07did you recognize the female as being
4:14:09michelle or it was not it was not her
4:14:12and her mother i know that but it was a
4:14:14voice i've never heard before
4:14:16a lady's voice i've never heard before
4:14:18and um like i said these phone calls
4:14:21were happening periodically but every
4:14:23time we answered they they'd hang up on
4:14:24us meaning you or your mom yes because
4:14:27my mother and i had voiced it and my
4:14:30we voiced it
4:14:32and a few days later
4:14:35i was home by myself and
4:14:37i got a private call
4:14:38and i didn't hear them click like hang
4:14:40up clicking
4:14:42so
4:14:42i yelled in chinese
4:14:44do not call this number ever again
4:14:47and they called probably once after that
4:14:49and never returned like the private call
4:14:51stopped
4:14:52and so when did this stop when did this
4:14:54happen when is he said the summer is
4:14:56when by the end of the summer the
4:14:58summer's august september
4:15:00like late august early september and
4:15:03this is the to the house line yes and
4:15:05what's the house line phone number 905
4:15:07477-3867
4:15:11okay
4:15:13okay
4:15:14sit tight
4:15:15is there any other any other incidents
4:15:17that jog your memory
4:15:23any other boyfriends in between this
4:15:25time period no
4:15:28okay sit tight let me get you some water
4:15:30let me ask some questions okay if you
4:15:31want to stand up and walk around i
4:15:33understand it's not we're not telling
4:15:34you to sit tight literally but it may be
4:15:36a couple of minutes okay um okay what do
4:15:39you need to go to the washroom no i just
4:15:41i don't like being by myself right now
4:15:43i'm going to leave the door open a
4:15:44little bit okay is that does that work
4:15:45for you okay and remember
4:15:48right through that glass you can
4:15:49actually i don't know see her but that's
4:15:50where she's sitting so she's actually
4:15:52you're you're just she's just in another
4:15:54room but she's a part of this room
4:15:56okay
4:16:08uh
4:16:18so
4:18:23it's just me
4:18:30feeling okay so
4:18:33everything's going okay
4:18:35all right
4:18:37can you do you need a bathroom break
4:18:39yes okay let me just clear the hallway
4:18:42and then i'll escort you out okay
4:18:52so
4:19:09okay
4:19:24so
4:19:26[Music]
4:19:42so
4:21:44go back in i'm going to just stand
4:21:45around here do you want to just wait out
4:21:47here or do you want to just wait inside
4:21:49but you can just stand up it's up to you
4:21:52i'm just uh
4:21:54okay we'll just wait by the door then
4:21:55that's fine you could
4:21:58not
4:21:59just
4:22:00okay yeah are you doing the falling just
4:22:03trying my best you're doing good
4:22:05you're doing good
4:22:15are you
4:22:16hungry no no
4:22:23the choices i've made haven't been the
4:22:25best
4:22:29you know what
4:22:32it's just part of life
4:22:35i mean it's it's you know we have to we
4:22:38learn
4:22:39and
4:22:40you know make mistakes and make mistakes
4:22:49be honest
4:23:39that you needed to do at the
4:24:06okay
4:24:19so
4:24:57thank you
4:26:06okay
4:26:26i'm going through everything and i just
4:26:31it's just like pieces here and pieces
4:26:33there and
4:26:34i don't
4:26:35i don't want to say
4:26:37something wrong or like
4:26:40just because i think i'm overthinking
4:26:41everything and it's just like
4:26:49the truth is the truth right it's not
4:26:51you know and it's not going to be wrong
4:26:53no okay it is it is what it is
4:26:56and no just like with the details and
4:27:00everything you can just
4:27:02i want to get it right so like
4:27:04everything could be
4:27:07everything could be right
4:27:09but it's just like it's pieces and
4:27:12yeah but i mean then you know you know
4:27:14all the pieces are gonna they're all
4:27:16gonna come together and you're it's all
4:27:19gonna
4:27:20fit right because what you're gonna be
4:27:22what you're saying is the truth
4:27:24i'm just trying to like
4:27:26every time i think of those things it
4:27:28just it gets me all worked up
4:27:31but i have to think about it but i don't
4:27:33i don't want to
4:27:35and then like it just
4:27:38it brings back all everything okay
4:27:42and that's going to happen for a little
4:27:43bit though too you realize that right i
4:27:46know that's good it's just it's it's a
4:27:47lot yeah yeah
4:27:50and it's just like i did it i don't want
4:27:51to do it again
4:27:53yeah
4:27:54i mean even when you least expect it
4:27:56even you know it's it's gonna happen
4:28:01and now it's just like
4:28:03he's asking these questions like i
4:28:04should have
4:28:06i should
4:28:09i know it's like maybe i should have
4:28:11been more like attentive like
4:28:14it just happened so fast
4:28:16and it's like he's asking me like shoes
4:28:18and everything and yeah
4:28:20i can't give him answers they don't know
4:28:21well
4:28:22and that's right you're right and we
4:28:24don't expect you to you know you don't
4:28:26want to make up something no i'm not
4:28:28because you know you won't
4:28:30i wish i was able to answer
4:28:32like i want to be able to answer it so
4:28:35it'd be not easier but it's
4:28:37it'd help
4:28:38but if you don't know you don't know
4:28:43really that's that's the bottom line if
4:28:44you don't know you don't know
4:28:46i don't know who are we to say because
4:28:49we weren't there you you're the one
4:28:50that's going through this we're not
4:28:52there
4:28:53so
4:28:55and like randy was saying what you
4:28:57remember back then
4:28:59you know you've had a couple of days and
4:29:00you know things start to
4:29:02come back in your mind you know it's it
4:29:05happens
4:29:06so don't be too hung up on
4:29:09all i didn't remember oh i should have
4:29:11remembered oh
4:29:12why couldn't i remember don't
4:29:14does it makes me feel like i should have
4:29:16no
4:29:31i want to say i'm still like beating
4:29:32myself up like i should have
4:29:34yeah don't do that you don't like you
4:29:36know there's no apologies needed there's
4:29:39no
4:29:40there's none of that
4:29:41there's none of that gen you don't need
4:29:43to be beating yourself up over this
4:29:47okay
4:29:53this is some heavy duty stuff
4:29:56i mean this is uh you've been through
4:29:58you've been through something that you
4:30:00know
4:30:01is very traumatic
4:30:08no i haven't still haven't heard yet
4:30:11i haven't heard
4:30:16and i kind of want to be here if you
4:30:18need me right on the uh
4:30:20right on the go so but you know what
4:30:22once once i'm able to to touch base with
4:30:26her again i'll do all to that and i know
4:30:28that she'll get in touch with you
4:31:31i'm trying to either anything i hope
4:31:33like
4:32:31just closing this way
4:32:55is there anything else you can
4:32:58you know what if
4:33:00no i'm
4:33:12just it's just like going over again
4:33:14it's okay
4:33:16just wait till randy comes back and you
4:33:18know what if he has some other questions
4:33:19for you he'll he'll ask them
4:34:29mm-hmm
4:34:51yes
4:36:03it's
4:36:06a thing you do
4:36:10it's embarrassing
4:36:13when i when i lose control i
4:36:16the only thing i feel like in control is
4:36:20what i feel
4:36:21okay
4:36:22oh i just i just heard the sound that's
4:36:24what it was like
4:36:25it was a sound that drew my attention
4:39:35everything we said here here is
4:39:36confidential here right
4:39:38sorry everything i said here today was
4:39:40just confidential to hear right
4:39:42just confidential because
4:39:44i don't
4:39:48everybody knows that
4:39:51everyone perceives
4:39:59i don't want to disappoint
4:40:01my mother
4:40:03like i don't want to
4:40:06like i said i haven't told her
4:40:08like they don't know about that
4:40:11university stuff
4:40:14and i don't
4:40:15want
4:40:17people who saw my mother as a good
4:40:18person i think
4:40:21following her
4:40:24okay well what you're saying in here
4:40:27is not gonna go anywhere
4:40:32because everyone says she's such a big
4:40:34mom
4:40:35and i don't want that to change
4:40:37because of my decisions
4:40:44what you're saying in here is is
4:40:46within
4:40:49the confines of
4:40:50this police station and in our
4:40:53investigation so it's not you know
4:40:55that's not something that we would
4:40:58release out to the public
4:41:01okay
4:41:06did you hear from the coroner's office
4:41:09i didn't know no if there's another
4:41:11officer that did another detective that
4:41:14did i
4:41:15haven't spoken to him yet
4:41:24have they been able to find out anything
4:41:27and that i don't know
4:41:28i don't i don't know um when randy comes
4:41:31back in here
4:41:34you can ask him all he can ask him those
4:41:36questions and as well he's not the lead
4:41:39investigator on this he
4:41:41there is a different individual that's
4:41:43the leave investigator so if you've got
4:41:46some questions i'll certainly
4:41:50try to answer them
4:41:52and then we can take it from there
4:41:57but i don't want to give you information
4:41:59that is not correct so i just want you
4:42:02know if there's something specific that
4:42:03you want to know
4:42:06no do they have any
4:42:09like leads or suspects or did anyone say
4:42:11where the car went after or and that
4:42:14that i don't know so that would be
4:42:16something that you know what i'd have to
4:42:17find out for you
4:42:21it's like is there any
4:42:24anything yeah i know i know you have a
4:42:27lot of it a lot of questions you have a
4:42:29lot of questions and
4:42:30and i can't i don't know the answers for
4:42:32you just feels like i'm
4:42:34answering questions but
4:42:37you're not giving a lot you're not
4:42:38getting a lot of
4:42:40answers right now
4:43:12the waiting
4:43:18because i can understand i don't like it
4:43:20either like if he's here he can ask me i
4:43:23can
4:43:24give him anything i can think of
4:43:27i know
4:43:50uh
4:44:01so
4:44:26thank you
4:44:35thanks
4:44:41[Music]
4:45:21uh
4:45:29so
4:45:54are you do you want something to eat
4:45:56i'm starving i don't know about you i
4:45:58don't know how you can go without
4:46:01i can get you something to eat
4:46:03even if it's a bagel
4:46:06okay
4:46:08but you're feeling a little light-headed
4:46:09do you want some chips or something like
4:46:11that do you need some junk food
4:46:16sure
4:46:19what can i get you
4:46:22if you could eat something right now
4:46:23what would it be
4:46:27yeah but you're light-headed
4:46:33maybe you should sit down a little bit
4:46:35too okay
4:46:36he's been doing a lot of pacing
4:46:38you need to just sit down for a bit
4:46:42if you need something with some sugar in
4:46:44it just to give you some energy
4:46:57do you want a candy bar
4:47:23so
4:48:18sorry more water
4:48:20i'm okay
4:50:10uh
4:51:16so
4:51:37hey
4:51:59okay
4:52:16so
4:53:05hi jennifer
4:53:07hey
4:53:11here
4:53:12take some kleenex
4:53:14take some kleenex
4:53:17tell me what you're feeling right now
4:53:18what's going on
4:53:26you might as well get used to this you
4:53:27gotta get it out so tell me what you're
4:53:28feeling right now
4:53:34i'm just
4:53:35kind of like
4:53:37if it makes me feel like i should have
4:53:42it's a thing called survivor's guilt
4:53:45okay that you're gonna go through
4:53:47you're going to you're going to need
4:53:48then this is like the the stuff about
4:53:50the therapy and and getting to speak to
4:53:52someone because there's stages of
4:53:54grieving that you're going to go through
4:53:56okay and this is
4:53:58the only way you're going to go through
4:53:59this is with properly is with help i
4:54:01think victim services is engaged right
4:54:03they're trying to help you
4:54:05so just stick with that
4:54:07it's a long road but it's it can be a
4:54:09very successful road okay and and what
4:54:12you're feeling i hate to say is normal
4:54:16but it is
4:54:17it's something that a lot of people who
4:54:19are in the same circumstance will feel
4:54:22okay but
4:54:23what i want to do is i want to finish
4:54:25off on this so that we can let you go
4:54:27and get and get old get out of the
4:54:28police station okay because i appreciate
4:54:31your time and i appreciate your help
4:54:34so
4:54:35what is in the safe
4:54:39i'm
4:54:43the last time
4:54:47i opened it my mom took out our
4:54:48passports
4:54:50and i
4:54:52i
4:54:53she's she has the combination i don't
4:54:55have the combination you don't have the
4:54:57combination for the safe just your mom
4:54:59okay and so there was passports
4:55:02no large quantities of cash in there
4:55:09not that i
4:55:10not that i know of because she asked me
4:55:14to
4:55:15help pay for our two trips
4:55:20and what did you get what did you have
4:55:21the two thousand dollars for what did
4:55:22you where did you make that
4:55:24money i had
4:55:29i was saving up to get a new cell phone
4:55:32do you have a blackberry
4:55:34oh you gave it to daniel okay my brother
4:55:37gave it to me from his friend but you
4:55:39have it so the blackberry is it in your
4:55:40name
4:55:41that you've given to daniel so it is dan
4:55:43it was yours and you've given it to me
4:55:44and my brother's friend didn't it was an
4:55:46old blackberry and my brother's friend
4:55:49gave it to him
4:55:51and
4:55:52i gave it i gave it to dan when did you
4:55:55give it to dania
4:55:59um
4:56:02i gave it to a friend to give to daniel
4:56:04how long ago
4:56:06a couple
4:56:08maybe a week
4:56:10a week a week
4:56:11maybe
4:56:13what's the pin command for that you know
4:56:15do you have a personal identification
4:56:17number for security reasons have you
4:56:18ever been given that by by blackberry no
4:56:21no there's there's no lock that i know
4:56:24okay
4:56:25so
4:56:26um
4:56:29daniel
4:56:31is
4:56:32was
4:56:33and likely still remains to be a drug
4:56:35dealer
4:56:37self-admitted when he was in the air the
4:56:39other day
4:56:40now so stepping back from that is i had
4:56:42asked you is prior to the incident
4:56:44when's the last time you spoke to daniel
4:56:47what i should have said to you is when
4:56:49is the last time from today
4:56:51for back that you spoke to daniel when
4:56:54is the last time you met with him and
4:56:55spoke with him
4:56:56i saw him here yesterday when i was
4:56:58leaving did you talk to him
4:57:01just briefly
4:57:04didn't see him or talked to him any
4:57:05other times other than right here in the
4:57:07police station
4:57:11and if i told you that daniel says that
4:57:13you spoke to him
4:57:15you did have a conversation with him
4:57:17somewhere else
4:57:30he would be lying
4:57:39the last time i spoke to him was when he
4:57:40asked for the blackberry
4:57:44and that was a week ago
4:57:50yes because my grandfather had just he
4:57:52was in the hospital and i snuck over
4:57:55and dropped it off for a friend
4:57:57at his paintball place and who is the
4:57:59friend that you gave it to i only know
4:58:01his first name
4:58:03hessen
4:58:04and where's the paintball place uh
4:58:07victoria park in
4:58:09vienna right at victoria park and
4:58:11mcmahon between mcnichol and steels on
4:58:14victoria park
4:58:19when
4:58:22there's a lot of people remember i told
4:58:23you about the media
4:58:25they're bad they can be very bad when
4:58:27they start to sniff around and they they
4:58:29sense something
4:58:31and i can tell you that the media
4:58:33is portraying
4:58:35that this was supposed to be some sort
4:58:36of drug related
4:58:38that you guys weren't a random target
4:58:40that you were a targeted house because
4:58:42of
4:58:43drug activity
4:58:47what would you say to that
4:58:50i don't deal the drugs
4:58:53okay
4:58:54tell me more about that you don't deal
4:58:56the drugs are you involved in the
4:58:57transportation and just distribution no
4:59:00have you ever been with danny this is
4:59:02something that's very important
4:59:04have you ever been with danny when
4:59:06danny's doing that
4:59:07he normally leaves me with a friend and
4:59:09says he's going out with his friend
4:59:12and like normally when is that normally
4:59:15that was three four years ago three or
4:59:18four years
4:59:30was he dealing with big quantities that
4:59:31you were you were aware of it
4:59:32honestly i
4:59:34i wanted nothing to do with it so i
4:59:36refused to know what he was doing okay
4:59:39and
4:59:40the times that you snuck out and spoke
4:59:42to him how many times a month up until
4:59:44the last time you handed the blackberry
4:59:47you'd see him once a week
4:59:49well prior to this i'd only see him
4:59:52once a month because i went away uh
4:59:55twice with my family yeah so i wasn't
4:59:57able to uh go anywhere i was out with
5:00:00them
5:00:01so this month i've only seen him
5:00:03twice this month
5:00:05i mean october i saw them twice in
5:00:06october and you but you text you said
5:00:08you text message them every day once you
5:00:11at least once more or less
5:00:13um you know and that could be a string
5:00:14of text messages right it's not just hey
5:00:17how are you doing fine and that's the
5:00:18end of the text message you'd be a
5:00:19string of communication huh you were
5:00:21texting it would you just be
5:00:23where you at are you at work
5:00:25how are you and
5:00:28miss you or
5:00:30what are you doing today
5:00:32and the
5:00:35so
5:00:36when you go out and see him for once
5:00:38during the time once once a week i i
5:00:40tell my parents that i was going to
5:00:42class yes
5:00:43and before class or after class i'd go
5:00:46buy him lunch and bring it by his work
5:00:48and sometimes i would see him and
5:00:50sometimes i just give it to a co-worker
5:00:51to give to him and how long when you see
5:00:53him how long would you see him for
5:00:5610 minutes 15 minutes because he was
5:00:58working
5:00:59when you weren't when he wasn't working
5:01:00and you were able to get out and see him
5:01:02how long
5:01:03hasn't happened in a long time and how
5:01:05long is a long time
5:01:07the last time i saw him
5:01:09outside of that was when gary picked me
5:01:11up and i got caught by my parents
5:01:13and that was i'd say a year if not a
5:01:15year and a half almost and why
5:01:18why did he want your blackberry
5:01:20he said that he had sold his blackberry
5:01:23so he needed a phone
5:01:26and
5:01:28that blackberry
5:01:30what like i'm i'm kind of confused is
5:01:32was that an active phone
5:01:35no because now we're talking about three
5:01:36phones now we're that we got a sim card
5:01:38we got the phone that your parents know
5:01:40you have and you got a blackberry
5:01:42up until a week ago yes
5:01:45so the black bears what i was using with
5:01:47my own roger sim card the phone i'm
5:01:49using now was an old phone
5:01:51that i no longer used
5:01:54okay so because the reception was okay
5:01:55the blackberry was your normal phone
5:01:57that you were using on a regular basis
5:02:00and
5:02:00um
5:02:01and you would switch sim cards if so if
5:02:03you were going to communicate with him
5:02:04with the other sim card you'd put the
5:02:06sim card in that blackberry and talk to
5:02:07him through that i had an iphone then
5:02:10i kept in my room that my parents didn't
5:02:12know about
5:02:13um
5:02:14because my brother
5:02:15i had one that daniel gave me earlier
5:02:17but it broke yeah so my brother what he
5:02:19did was he
5:02:20fixed the part so he can have one that
5:02:22he used himself but the one i had wasn't
5:02:25fully functioning
5:02:26it was just able uh it had no internet
5:02:29access on it
5:02:30so i just kept it for phone calls and i
5:02:32kept it hidden and where is that phone
5:02:34now
5:02:34it should be still on my
5:02:36in my room yes where
5:02:42i believe it was on my
5:02:44laptop table or something or on my
5:02:46counter and it doesn't have a sim card
5:02:48in it right now
5:02:49no i don't keep the sim card in it just
5:02:51in case my parents asked
5:02:53okay
5:02:54so
5:02:55there's an iphone on by your desk on
5:02:58your desk somewhere in that in your room
5:03:00yes
5:03:01and um
5:03:03the rogers i mean the blackberry that
5:03:06you had had up until a week and it went
5:03:07to daniel and and for what reason it
5:03:09went today he had a black another a
5:03:11newer blackberry but he said someone
5:03:14wanted to buy it like a friend of his
5:03:15wanted to buy it
5:03:16and that he needed a phone temporarily
5:03:20so he took your phone so i i had another
5:03:22phone as well so i said okay i'll lend
5:03:24you this one
5:03:28so um
5:03:30it sounds as if you couldn't
5:03:32let danny go
5:03:34like you're
5:03:35you're still there that you're still
5:03:36hoping
5:03:38the hope isn't much but but you're still
5:03:40hoping i still can't you're not you're
5:03:42not walking away from them right you
5:03:44haven't walked away from them even with
5:03:46the comments that you've received these
5:03:49comments from i had and then
5:03:54but
5:03:56i had for a while i disappeared from him
5:03:58for a while but i needed
5:04:01it was just he
5:04:03he's that
5:04:05calm
5:04:06that he can he can make me calm so i
5:04:08reach back out to him so is the is it
5:04:11you instigating all the communication or
5:04:13does he reach but does he start reach
5:04:15back as well
5:04:16okay
5:04:18now
5:04:21you have to figure as i said the media
5:04:23can be horrific in some cases and i i
5:04:25told you not to read or pay attention to
5:04:28the news
5:04:29and i know for a fact that in one of the
5:04:31newspapers
5:04:32that the angle that's being portrayed
5:04:34right now is that this was a drug that
5:04:36you guys were
5:04:38not a random but a targeted residence
5:04:41because of drug related activity
5:04:44you and your family were engaged in
5:04:46drug-related activity
5:04:49now
5:04:50is it possible
5:04:52that danny
5:04:55that you are being mistaken somehow as
5:04:58being involved in his life in that angle
5:05:00of things well i haven't been around his
5:05:02life for a while like going out with him
5:05:08but
5:05:09i wouldn't say it's completely out of
5:05:10the question but i haven't i don't i
5:05:13don't go around with him when he's doing
5:05:15that kind of stuff i
5:05:17i don't like it and i refuse to be a
5:05:19part of that and now what do you say
5:05:20about chris
5:05:21the comment about christine and the
5:05:23running
5:05:24i kind of took a blind eye to that but
5:05:27you it your understanding that she may
5:05:29be not only part of it but
5:05:32linking him to the people involved in
5:05:33this activity
5:05:36and
5:05:38because like i told you he gives me that
5:05:40answer and i kind of take a blind eye
5:05:42but if i were to
5:05:46tell you what i thought of what was that
5:05:49i would think that
5:05:50she
5:05:52she also has her own
5:05:53thing going
5:05:56her own business is she work for a
5:05:58living
5:06:00what i know of her is that uh
5:06:03i think he mentioned that she worked at
5:06:05no frills but it wasn't i shouldn't work
5:06:07often
5:06:09i think he mentioned that she doesn't
5:06:10have a job once
5:06:12but i know she worked for norfolk i
5:06:14don't know if she still does
5:06:16um which no frills do you know
5:06:18unfortunately i'm not sure do you know
5:06:20what area of town or where she lives she
5:06:23lives at midland and steels at midland
5:06:26and steels on the markham or scarborough
5:06:28side
5:06:28on
5:06:30on the
5:06:31scarborough side on the scarborough
5:06:33setting christine you don't know her
5:06:34last name felipe felipe
5:06:38what's that what nationality is she
5:06:40filipino filipino
5:06:42and how old is christine
5:06:44i i only know she's older than me i'm
5:06:46not sure if she's his age or older i'm
5:06:49not sure did he ever see where he met
5:06:50her
5:06:51we all we all went to the same high
5:06:53school and they also uh
5:06:55yeah we all went to the same high school
5:06:58what school was that
5:07:00mary ward yes
5:07:04no
5:07:06how would you feel if
5:07:09you know like
5:07:11daniel is the one who's
5:07:15through through whatever activity that
5:07:17he's engaged in and you've been around
5:07:18but not necessarily having an
5:07:20understanding because you're seen with
5:07:21him that he's brought this back to you
5:07:34i don't know if that's in fact happened
5:07:35i'm trying to find a rhyme or reason for
5:07:37why your house was targeted
5:07:39i'm still trying to figure out how they
5:07:40got in your house
5:07:44like you didn't hear you didn't hear a
5:07:45doorbell you didn't hear a door knock
5:07:47you didn't hear
5:07:49a door kicked in you didn't i was i said
5:07:52i was watching tv on the phone i i don't
5:07:54know how
5:07:56yeah i i know we went over that back and
5:07:58back and forth we don't know how
5:08:02so
5:08:03somehow they got into your house
5:08:06by getting through your mom
5:08:08down in the lower level right because
5:08:10she's the only one who's down
5:08:11down there
5:08:13so
5:08:14it's very confusing
5:08:16um
5:08:18we do have
5:08:19surveillance cameras from the area right
5:08:22that explain that well hopefully but
5:08:23it's
5:08:24that's you know that's still in work in
5:08:27progress um
5:08:31but
5:08:33generally
5:08:34random events
5:08:37are not
5:08:38in most cases random there's a rhyme or
5:08:40reason why they've come to your house
5:08:43but from what you've told me inside the
5:08:45house the only thing that you hear them
5:08:46saying to you is they're looking for
5:08:48money
5:08:49they're not looking for a specific
5:08:51quantity of money no
5:08:53do you ever hear number one telling
5:08:55number three
5:08:56about the quantity of money that he's
5:08:58recovered no
5:09:02i don't hear that
5:09:06all the comment you hear from number one
5:09:08really is is it's time to go we've been
5:09:11here too long we've been here too long
5:09:12yes
5:09:14and number three was the one that says
5:09:16was was my father and all i could what i
5:09:18heard from him was basically where's
5:09:19more you're lying
5:09:27so you're telling me that you
5:09:29you had no involvement in what happened
5:09:33meaning not saying how the outcome came
5:09:35but you you had no involvement in in any
5:09:37type of illegal activity that would have
5:09:39drawn you
5:09:40or the attention of you to have bad
5:09:42people come to your house
5:09:44looking for large sums of money
5:09:48you're not involved in this any which
5:09:50way
5:09:51because
5:09:53the question obviously stands jennifer
5:09:55is
5:09:57you're upstairs and they're downstairs
5:10:01right
5:10:03so it's
5:10:04a natural
5:10:05concern
5:10:07when why would they leave you alone
5:10:10why would they not do the same to you
5:10:19you can't answer that question
5:10:23the only thing i can say is he said i
5:10:24cooperated
5:10:27but i asked him to take me the number
5:10:29one guy the number one guy said you're
5:10:31cooperating
5:10:34okay
5:10:36there's no you had no threats and again
5:10:39we're back to the fact that you
5:10:40admittedly lied okay not to me
5:10:43right not to me no you admittedly lied
5:10:47you've lied to your parents
5:10:50right about going to school
5:10:53you've lied
5:10:55to danny about being daniel about being
5:10:57raped and about receiving a bullet
5:11:01who's to say this whole thing isn't a
5:11:03lie
5:11:05that what you're telling me is a lie
5:11:07because if you are lying it's the most
5:11:09cold-blooded thing that i have ever
5:11:11faced in my life
5:11:28there is nothing that you've said to me
5:11:30today is a lie
5:11:33and i wanna they wanna
5:11:35just put a little preamble
5:11:37not
5:11:38nothing in here that you might have
5:11:40mistaken
5:11:41because of order of events
5:11:43i'm saying to you
5:11:44right now is there anything throughout
5:11:47the course of your statement today
5:11:50or you've lied to me
5:11:56from your interaction with danny daniel
5:12:00from your
5:12:01i'm not involved in drugs and i don't
5:12:03have anything to do with them and we
5:12:04don't have large sums of money
5:12:07what about life insurance policies do
5:12:08your parents have life insurance
5:12:09policies
5:12:14i
5:12:15i think i i don't know
5:12:16i know they had a
5:12:18they had a
5:12:22i have one of myself
5:12:24yes and uh
5:12:27my mom they used to have one for me when
5:12:29i was younger okay but uh half of that
5:12:32went to education half went to
5:12:36uh life insurance and
5:12:38when they found out
5:12:40i didn't go to university they
5:12:44they asked for the money back so hang on
5:12:46a second here
5:12:48you told me that you told me that they
5:12:49never knew you didn't go to university
5:12:52when did they find out that you didn't
5:12:53go to university
5:12:55i told them that i graduated but i never
5:12:58went to university
5:13:00that i went for two years but i never
5:13:02finished okay
5:13:04and they wanted the money back as a
5:13:06result of that yes
5:13:07so you did actually tell your parents
5:13:09somewhat of the truth that you never
5:13:10went to university or but it's it's half
5:13:12truths
5:13:14yes
5:13:16so
5:13:17back to this line is
5:13:19um
5:13:21where we're talking about the fact that
5:13:23of the lying right is that it's i don't
5:13:26deal the drugs i don't
5:13:28associate with that
5:13:31okay i honestly i don't
5:13:34now
5:13:36back to another very difficult question
5:13:39but if i don't ask it i'm gonna be you
5:13:41it's an obvious one
5:13:42the resentment that you had that you may
5:13:45have had towards your parents for the
5:13:47interference in your relationship and
5:13:48your life and essentially locking you
5:13:50down in your house
5:13:54at the end of the day i love my parents
5:13:55and i chose to be with them
5:14:00and if i
5:14:02wanted to i could have just left but i
5:14:03didn't i wanted to stay with them and
5:14:06take care of them
5:14:09so this wasn't some evil plot that you
5:14:11thought up to oh my god no
5:14:16no interaction no belief no you didn't
5:14:18have anything to do with this thing at
5:14:20all whatsoever
5:14:21you don't engage in illegal activity no
5:14:26because you know that it'll be very easy
5:14:28it will be a very easy thing to
5:14:29discredit you on right we're in the
5:14:31process of trying to add credibility to
5:14:33what you tell us and that's through the
5:14:34process of asking people and doing
5:14:36whatever through that same process it
5:14:39will be very easy to find the flaws in
5:14:41what you've said
5:14:42which again then turns the focus back to
5:14:44you
5:14:46okay i don't it's a natural progress
5:14:48it's a natural thing that investigators
5:14:50do we eliminate people
5:14:52or we draw our attention to them it's a
5:14:55natural
5:14:56thing it's not brain surgery
5:14:59okay
5:15:03what did you talk to michelle about
5:15:05did you talk to michelle last night
5:15:08or the day before
5:15:09that you were coming about talking to
5:15:11the police
5:15:13i just asked her how she was feeling she
5:15:15was nervous
5:15:16what did you tell her
5:15:18just tell the truth tell you what you
5:15:20know
5:15:22and the threats that you you say that
5:15:24you've received the threats that you've
5:15:26talked about
5:15:27are the same threats that you're
5:15:28mentioning from the text messaging
5:15:31they're not really you did you receive
5:15:33any life threatening or are they
5:15:34basically to stay away from
5:15:37just the email saying the the message is
5:15:39saying stay away
5:15:41from danny yes
5:15:43okay i heard a knock on the door keep
5:15:44bear with me
5:17:01uh
5:17:19uh
5:19:10foreign
5:19:20so
5:20:31so
5:22:52do
5:23:02can anyone come in
5:23:10i'm here
5:23:11right here
5:24:44so
5:25:25so
5:26:37jennifer i'm just up here okay right
5:26:40back just up there
5:27:16so
5:27:38hmm
5:28:42so
5:30:05so
5:30:47so
5:31:14so
5:32:00okay we're
5:32:01we're done essentially
5:32:04how you feeling
5:32:08did i would i scare you about sit down
5:32:09sit down and take a load off tell me how
5:32:12tell me how you're feeling and how i
5:32:14scared you
5:32:18i don't want you walking away from here
5:32:19thinking i'm evil i want you to walking
5:32:21around from here thinking that
5:32:22this guy is helping investigate my mom's
5:32:25murder and he's going to turn over every
5:32:26stone possible to make sure that we
5:32:28catch the people who do that that's what
5:32:30i want you feeling so i don't want you
5:32:31walking away from here thinking that i'm
5:32:33i'm
5:32:34i scared you or i'm i'm a bad man
5:32:36sometimes we have to ask very very
5:32:38difficult questions but it's my job
5:32:41okay
5:32:43and you would expect that
5:32:45from me
5:32:46and it's not you're not the only person
5:32:48that we're asking this stuff of
5:32:50right but you're the almost obvious
5:32:52person that we have to ask this stuff to
5:32:58and there's it's just it's just the way
5:33:01we operate it's the way we have to
5:33:03operate it's a tough job to deal with
5:33:06someone's murder and there's some very
5:33:08bad people and there's some very tough
5:33:10questions that need to be asked
5:33:12so you have to i hope you understand
5:33:14that
5:33:17i understand that it's just
5:33:22it's hard to take
5:33:25have you lied to me
5:33:28no
5:33:29you haven't lied to me about anything
5:33:32i said whatever i could to help okay
5:33:35so if you've always told the truth the
5:33:38truth will never hurt you it may get you
5:33:39into a bit of trouble right the truth
5:33:42can get you into trouble if you've done
5:33:43some things wrong
5:33:45but generally in most cases if you tell
5:33:47the truth
5:33:49you'll always be fine
5:33:54so
5:33:54that's that's the avenue that that's the
5:33:57avenue you have to think about and what
5:33:59you i can always i never do anything
5:34:00wrong if i tell the truth and if i've
5:34:02made life if i've said some things that
5:34:04are lies or
5:34:05i've held something back because i think
5:34:07it might hurt me those are the things
5:34:09that will cause people
5:34:12to look at you
5:34:14more intently because the question is is
5:34:16why would that person do that to me
5:34:17they've got something to hide
5:34:19right
5:34:21so
5:34:24you know the fact that you've lied to
5:34:25your parents over a long period of time
5:34:27the fact that you lied about to daniel
5:34:30about those other two events
5:34:32you know those are disturbing
5:34:36but i don't live in your shoes and i
5:34:38would never judge you on that fact but
5:34:40from an outsider looking in to have to
5:34:42live under those conditions
5:34:44to have to lie continually
5:34:49you're going to ask the question why
5:34:58and if that's the way that you have to
5:35:00live that's the way you have to live
5:35:03but people will judge you on your life
5:35:06right
5:35:13so is there anything else that you think
5:35:15that you can think of
5:35:17that might help us
5:35:38there was this one person who
5:35:42added me on facebook
5:35:49and
5:35:50i found it weird
5:35:52that he had added me out of nowhere
5:35:56and
5:35:57i had looked in common friends and saw
5:35:59that he was friends with this girl that
5:36:02girl christine
5:36:03when i spoke to daniel about it i don't
5:36:05know if he told her or not
5:36:08but i asked him like
5:36:10is she just
5:36:11casual friends with him or is he she
5:36:14good friends with him
5:36:17and the day after
5:36:20i asked him this
5:36:21they were no longer friends on facebook
5:36:24who is this guy what did he look like
5:36:26casey law
5:36:28i've never met him apparently went to
5:36:30high school as well but i don't recall
5:36:33ever meeting him
5:36:37and he kept asking me questions that
5:36:41i don't know if it's just his
5:36:42personality but he asked me questions
5:36:43that i thought were
5:36:46too
5:36:47abrupt to ask someone you just met
5:36:50like what give me an example
5:36:54he asked
5:36:56if i had a boyfriend and if i
5:36:59was looking for a boyfriend and if i
5:37:02engaged in sex and
5:37:04things like that
5:37:06so that's the kind of question he was
5:37:08you know
5:37:10provoking you
5:37:13casey law
5:37:14and did you recognize the name from
5:37:16school
5:37:18recognizable but again i don't remember
5:37:20ever even having a conversation with him
5:37:23and so he said he went to your school
5:37:26yeah
5:37:26but he was older than me he's older than
5:37:28you
5:37:30and um what
5:37:32what does he look like
5:37:34chinese guy yeah
5:37:37when i when i talked to him he said that
5:37:39he was working like security
5:37:44okay
5:37:46so that's that's on on on things that
5:37:48strange things that have happened to you
5:37:50recently that's
5:37:52that's it that you can think of is that
5:37:53that one and plus obviously the
5:37:56the the stuff that was going on with
5:37:57christine and then because the ghost
5:37:59messages that you were receiving right
5:38:02from from
5:38:04these were numbers that didn't exist or
5:38:05they didn't have any no it was blocked
5:38:07blocked numbers
5:38:09and when i called rogers they said
5:38:10that's not possible
5:38:13for a text message to come in with a
5:38:15blocked number yes
5:38:18okay
5:38:27so um you know that whatever everything
5:38:30you've told us has been under oath yes
5:38:34you know that
5:38:35part of it our job is is to go back and
5:38:40look at what you've told us to try and
5:38:42match up to the reality of what we have
5:38:45evidence that we have right
5:38:48you said you're where you you said
5:38:51essentially
5:38:53nothing you didn't really change much
5:38:55from your first statement to your second
5:38:56statement right you've uh you've
5:38:58explained more we've we've covered off
5:39:00more
5:39:03but is there anything in this course of
5:39:05these that you think you want to change
5:39:15you made me like now i feel like i've
5:39:17said something wrong you have not i i
5:39:19don't know if you said do you have to me
5:39:21no no i've said everything that i know
5:39:23and i'm asking you is it from reflecting
5:39:25on what you've told me today
5:39:28which is fairly consistent with the
5:39:30first statement it's just there's more
5:39:31detail now
5:39:33is there anything in there from what
5:39:34you've been going down and what you
5:39:36think
5:39:37it should be right on the tip of your
5:39:38tongue if you want to change something
5:39:39it would be like
5:39:42you know what i i said this and i i
5:39:44really meant this it's not something
5:39:46you've missed it's something that you
5:39:48knowingly have said that you want to
5:39:49change that you know was wrong
5:39:52or could be taken wrong
5:39:54okay well well first thing the school
5:39:56thing yes
5:39:58i didn't go to university but i told my
5:40:00parents that i went for a few years
5:40:03right how long did you tell how long did
5:40:05you tell them how long ago did they find
5:40:07out
5:40:08i told them everything when i was going
5:40:10i was seeing daniel and that i
5:40:13only i told them i only went partial
5:40:15school
5:40:16okay and i told them all and when was
5:40:18that what year was that when how long a
5:40:20year and a half ago
5:40:21so is this when the ultimatum come down
5:40:23is after is that at that point the
5:40:25ultimatum came about eight
5:40:28there there's always been ultimatums
5:40:31like they always gave me a sec but the
5:40:32one that you made the choice where you
5:40:34were at because you say that was about a
5:40:35year and a half ago too
5:40:37is that part of when you came clean
5:40:40to a certain extent you say you came
5:40:42clean coming clean would be mom and dad
5:40:44no i didn't come clean but i came like
5:40:47when i
5:40:48when i said
5:40:50when i said what they know
5:40:54and that was a year and a half ago yes
5:40:56okay
5:40:57so there's one that you've we've
5:40:58clarified is there anything else you can
5:41:00think of
5:41:06is there anything that
5:41:10like i everything i said is what i said
5:41:14like that's all i know yeah you're just
5:41:16making me feel like you're looking at me
5:41:18to for me to try and tell you what i
5:41:20think you've said was wrong
5:41:22i don't know i i'm telling you that i'm
5:41:25um i'd i've
5:41:27heard everything that you've had to say
5:41:30i don't have this uh
5:41:32miraculous tv ability that says i can
5:41:35pull out a chunk of this and say to you
5:41:37that portion's wrong i can tell you from
5:41:40what you've told us
5:41:42we're going to compare it with all the
5:41:43evidence we have and see how consistent
5:41:45it is
5:41:47there's no way you're expected to be 100
5:41:49it's impossible
5:41:51okay eyewitnesses for every event we
5:41:53know
5:41:54are have don't have the ability to
5:41:56recall everything
5:41:58so that's why we ask you due to the best
5:42:00of your ability
5:42:03my concern lies in the fact
5:42:05of your lying
5:42:07okay you've come clean
5:42:10you've never lied to me before
5:42:12right
5:42:13i've never met you to be a liar but the
5:42:15fact is is that you've lied about
5:42:18stuff to daniel
5:42:19you've lied to your parents
5:42:22so
5:42:24could you be lying to me
5:42:27i can't
5:42:28why couldn't you be lying because you're
5:42:29scaring me
5:42:31doesn't mean that you couldn't be lying
5:42:33to me right
5:42:35i don't know you i've known you now for
5:42:37probably five hours intermittent
5:42:41i hope you're not lying to me
5:42:43right
5:42:44that's all i can hope for
5:42:46but the fact of the matter is is that
5:42:48those three things are sitting there
5:42:50saying
5:42:51you know like
5:42:52you have the ability to trick your
5:42:53parents for a long period of time
5:42:57they just weren't in tunes i was doing
5:43:00very explainable and i also weren't lit
5:43:02i wasn't living and where you are
5:43:04right and i'm so i'm not going to
5:43:05prejudge you because i
5:43:07people do what they need to do to
5:43:09survive
5:43:10so it could very easily be justified as
5:43:12a survival mechanism this is the best
5:43:14avenue that you sought and you were
5:43:15stuck in it
5:43:17okay
5:43:18but the fact is is that my job is
5:43:21is trying to get the root of a of a very
5:43:23serious crime
5:43:24and i have to explore every avenue that
5:43:26we possibly can
5:43:28so i'm going to do everything in my
5:43:30power to either prove us as as our
5:43:33police agency prove or disprove what
5:43:35you've told us
5:43:36the more we prove
5:43:39or can cooperate the more credibility
5:43:41you you have as as a witness okay
5:43:45that's gonna happen
5:43:47we may even ask you to come back again
5:43:51again it will be not for you will not be
5:43:54explaining
5:43:55what happened
5:43:57in a grand scheme of things because
5:43:58you've done that up and down and
5:43:59backwards it may be for points of
5:44:01clarification
5:44:03okay because again we're speaking that
5:44:04we're going to be going and likely
5:44:05speaking to some of your friends
5:44:07and your relatives
5:44:09and
5:44:10it's just points of clarification may
5:44:12not happen it make you know i'm only
5:44:14saying that it may i told you i didn't
5:44:16want to do the five and six and seven
5:44:18interviews with you well after today
5:44:21that's not gonna happen but we may be
5:44:23contacting you to help us
5:44:25for some other points that we come
5:44:27across
5:44:28okay again it goes back to your
5:44:29credibility but i don't no one's going
5:44:30to sit you down
5:44:32and crank you through
5:44:35the events
5:44:37unless you were involved
5:44:40right and then i can't then all all
5:44:42promises are all everything comes off
5:44:45if you had some involvement in this then
5:44:49then i'm just saying although all the
5:44:51rules if you didn't have anything to do
5:44:53with this
5:44:55and you're telling me the truth
5:44:58then we may be calling you to add
5:45:00is this true with this person saying
5:45:02that this way and we may be asking you
5:45:04points like that okay
5:45:06you you're our only link
5:45:10you're it
5:45:11until your dad regains he is back and
5:45:13being able to be
5:45:15spoken to
5:45:16right now you're our only link to this
5:45:18case
5:45:19so where we may rely on you heavily on
5:45:21until we can speak to your father
5:45:25okay
5:45:26so don't be afraid if you've told the
5:45:28truth the last thing you should be
5:45:30afraid of is is anything if you've told
5:45:32the truth and you've been truthful
5:45:33through this whole
5:45:35then you're helping
5:45:37you're doing your part
5:45:39okay
5:45:40and don't be afraid of me
5:45:42i'm just afraid because
5:45:44you know
5:45:45like i know everything is just all
5:45:48pointing
5:45:49negatively right now and i i don't
5:45:51understand why it's not all pointing
5:45:53negative and you know what you're so
5:45:54you're misunderstanding things that
5:45:56you're thinking it's all negatively
5:45:58pointing anywhere it's not pointing
5:46:00anywhere right now we are still
5:46:01gathering
5:46:02and gathering and gathering there is no
5:46:05direction that we're there's nothing
5:46:07you are not a suspect in this in this
5:46:10investigation
5:46:11okay
5:46:12you're a witness and a victim of a crime
5:46:15i know but i'm just
5:46:17i'm just i feel that like the way you're
5:46:20you're speaking to me it's kind of like
5:46:22i know you said that you had to say
5:46:24those things but it's
5:46:26it's here and
5:46:29i've already said it to
5:46:31the special victims yesterday but
5:46:32there's like ideas in my head yeah
5:46:36and i'd afraid to say it out loud
5:46:39but
5:46:40ideas about speculation of what happened
5:46:42how it happened ideas of
5:46:44why
5:46:47why wasn't i there
5:46:51it is you
5:46:54you
5:46:54that
5:46:56psychologically is an issue that you
5:46:57need to straighten out with counseling
5:47:00okay
5:47:01for you to speculate into the
5:47:02investigation as to why you weren't
5:47:04there
5:47:05unless unless it's standing out
5:47:08i believe you said your opinion was is
5:47:10that they said i cooperated
5:47:12right
5:47:16that makes no sense that could be the
5:47:18only sense that we get out of the
5:47:19investigation is that strange things
5:47:21happen
5:47:23right strange things happen
5:47:26so yeah
5:47:28unfortunately uh
5:47:30at times some of us have to point the
5:47:32finger seem like we're pointing the
5:47:33finger and it really is just to provoke
5:47:35you to see what you're gonna do how
5:47:36you're gonna respond
5:47:38okay
5:47:40so it's only a question and it's been
5:47:44answered and if you've been truthful
5:47:46okay you have nothing to fear
5:47:49absolutely nothing
5:47:51okay
5:47:55what do you want to say
5:47:59that i got a phone call once and like i
5:48:01i said earlier i don't know if
5:48:04you it was like zoned in but they
5:48:07content they said that they could make
5:48:09everything disappear and that's what i'm
5:48:11afraid of
5:48:13because you're asking me all these
5:48:14questions and i'm answering them
5:48:16truthfully but i'm afraid that
5:48:19well i can't answer them for you well
5:48:22there's some you know not your the
5:48:24technology exists you know
5:48:26there is some technology out there i'm
5:48:28sure that can make things disappear and
5:48:30i know that not everything is captured
5:48:33so you know we go back to interviewing
5:48:35someone else who may say yeah well she
5:48:37told me about this and uh or i had
5:48:40similar things so there's other ways
5:48:42around it it's not this case isn't going
5:48:44to hinge on
5:48:45small inconsistencies right it's not
5:48:48going to hinge it's not inconsistency
5:48:50it's i'm afraid of what
5:48:53is out there
5:48:55because you you shine a light that it
5:48:56could have been because of
5:48:58what he's involved in
5:49:01and if is it not a possibility
5:49:04i know like you have given me that
5:49:06and with that i'm just like i'm scared
5:49:08because
5:49:11it could be anybody out there
5:49:13right now it could be anyone
5:49:15and that's the reality of it
5:49:17right
5:49:18we don't we're the theories we're we're
5:49:21at the same position you as speculating
5:49:23as to theories and reasons why
5:49:26and
5:49:27you can't be confined in your theories
5:49:29because you know if you're sitting here
5:49:30looking like this
5:49:32you know at a small with the blinders on
5:49:34that this is
5:49:35it's it's like this
5:49:37we got to think at every possible way
5:49:38that it could that this crime could have
5:49:40been happening and you know saying that
5:49:42it could have been daniel yeah
5:49:44it could have been dead could have been
5:49:45a random act yeah it could have been a
5:49:47random could they have been targeted
5:49:49because of something did yeah it could
5:49:51have been
5:49:52we've got to explore them all
5:49:55and then try and figure out which one
5:49:57through motive and opportunity and means
5:49:59was likely to have occurred
5:50:01and hopefully we start to focus down on
5:50:03suspects
5:50:06but right now there's no fingers being
5:50:08directed at anyone
5:50:10it's just i feel
5:50:12that's what you're meant to feel
5:50:15okay
5:50:17that's what you're meant to feel
5:50:21but there's nothing right now other than
5:50:22what you told me about the changing
5:50:24where you fixed it at the end about you
5:50:26i just wanted to clarify that okay so is
5:50:28there anything else not off the top of
5:50:30my head
5:50:43so we're back to this last question that
5:50:45uh comes back to is is there anything
5:50:47else i should note uh to understand your
5:50:49statement fully and that's again is it
5:50:51this is where you'll drop in that i
5:50:53took five hits fasted before you're not
5:50:56on drugs you're not taking liquor you're
5:50:58not taking any medication here
5:51:01you
5:51:03you voluntarily gave this statement
5:51:05and you
5:51:07did it
5:51:08having a full understanding of what
5:51:09you've told me
5:51:10yes yes
5:51:22okay so the recorders are being shut off
5:51:24as we speak
5:51:28the time
5:51:49[Music]
5:52:00so
5:52:10so
5:52:37[Music]
5:53:21all right you can just
5:53:23have a seat over here come on in
5:53:26have a seat over here
5:53:30it's kind
5:53:32[Music]
5:53:37all right
5:53:39so just to let you know right away
5:53:41jennifer everything in this room is
5:53:43being videotaped and audio taped okay
5:53:46that's actually for your protection of
5:53:48mine if anybody ever asks us what we
5:53:50talked about there's a record but okay
5:53:52so just for the record it is the uh
5:53:5522nd november 2010
5:53:58we're at the five district station in
5:54:01the town of markham
5:54:03my computer right now says 2 39
5:54:06in the afternoon
5:54:08okay
5:54:09just for the record my name is detective
5:54:11william gates you can just call me bill
5:54:13here today
5:54:14and what do you like to be called
5:54:17what do you prefer jenner jennifer
5:54:19either okay so jen
5:54:22um
5:54:23you're aware that the
5:54:26audio tape and everything's on um it's
5:54:28the same as last time okay you've been
5:54:30here on two other occasions i understand
5:54:33on the 9th of november and i believe
5:54:36again on the 11th of november is that
5:54:38correct
5:54:39okay and you know why we're here today
5:54:45yeah regarding
5:54:47[Music]
5:54:53what happened okay
5:54:56and that happened uh there was a home
5:54:59invasion for the record there was a
5:55:00whole invasion
5:55:02at your residence on the 8th november
5:55:052010 is that correct
5:55:08and
5:55:09your residence is located at 238 helen
5:55:12avenue in the town of markham that's
5:55:14correct okay
5:55:16and as a result of that home invasion um
5:55:20your father
5:55:22and pam was actually shot and your
5:55:24mother
5:55:25uh
5:55:26and was actually killed is that correct
5:55:31yeah you'll have to speak up a little
5:55:33bit just so i can hear you
5:55:37uh so that's what we're going to discuss
5:55:38here today
5:55:40on previous occasions um
5:55:43a commissioner votes has come in
5:55:46and
5:55:46you've sworn the video statement is that
5:55:49correct
5:55:50okay
5:55:51and on those foreign video statements
5:55:55you promised to tell the truth
5:55:58okay
5:55:58is that correct
5:56:00okay
5:56:01and i'm gonna have to get you to speak
5:56:03up for okay pick it up and
5:56:06what was the
5:56:08what was your understanding
5:56:10that if you did not tell the truth what
5:56:11would happen
5:56:16there could be
5:56:17okay there are specific charges
5:56:20for fabricating evidence
5:56:23for public mischief for obstructing
5:56:25police on a police investigation you
5:56:27understand that right okay
5:56:29so the same thing applies here today
5:56:31okay um that
5:56:34if you were
5:56:36to make a false statement
5:56:38if you were to lie to the police or
5:56:40mislead the police in an investigation
5:56:43you could be charged with those offenses
5:56:45of public
5:56:46mischief uh fabricating evidence or
5:56:49obstruct place do you understand that
5:56:51okay
5:56:52then of course um
5:56:54if you had anything to do
5:56:56with the actual homicide itself
5:57:00of course you could be charged with
5:57:01murder you understand that
5:57:03yes okay
5:57:05now do you understand what your rates
5:57:06are here today
5:57:09do you understand what your rights are
5:57:10here today
5:57:13everybody has rights do you know what
5:57:15your rights are
5:57:19as a citizen you know what your rights
5:57:21are
5:57:22that you don't have to speak to the
5:57:24police
5:57:25they went through some things with you
5:57:27before you don't have to give a
5:57:28statement if you don't want to you do
5:57:30you understand that
5:57:34okay and it's your choice whether you
5:57:36give a statement or not
5:57:39you understand that that was on that
5:57:41form that they read okay and it said
5:57:44that it's your choice you understand
5:57:46that though
5:57:48okay all right
5:57:50and
5:57:52what i tell everybody that i speak to is
5:57:54that
5:57:55all of our rights are guaranteed and
5:57:57they're guaranteed under the charge of
5:57:59rights and freedoms
5:58:00which states that when a person's been
5:58:02arrested or detained while they must be
5:58:04advised their rights to counsel or
5:58:06rights to a lawyer
5:58:07so first of all you're not under arrest
5:58:09here okay
5:58:10you're not being detained that door
5:58:12there that's not locked it's just closed
5:58:14to ensure our privacy okay
5:58:17so if at any time you want to leave
5:58:19please feel free to do so
5:58:21okay
5:58:22if any time you want me to stop these
5:58:24proceedings just say so and i will
5:58:26if at any time you did want to speak to
5:58:28a lawyer you just have to tell me and
5:58:30you can speak to a lawyer in private we
5:58:32can phone a lawyer and you can speak to
5:58:34them privately on the phone do you
5:58:35understand that
5:58:37okay now have you ever heard of legal
5:58:39aid
5:58:41well i've
5:58:42determined yeah you've heard the term
5:58:44before
5:58:45do you know what it means
5:58:47okay so legal aid lawyers are lawyers
5:58:50available to give people free legal
5:58:51advice
5:58:52okay and they're available 24 hours a
5:58:55day
5:58:55for people uh at a police station and
5:58:58available to everyone and these lawyers
5:59:01give people free legal advice okay so
5:59:04that's another option available to you
5:59:06here today do you understand that and
5:59:08you understand these rights
5:59:10okay and you wish to speak to a lawyer
5:59:18well i just advise people what the
5:59:20rights are but i can't tell you that you
5:59:22should or you shouldn't
5:59:27okay so that's fine if you change your
5:59:29mind let me know
5:59:31okay
5:59:33now
5:59:35as discussed before okay
5:59:37in relation to this case um you don't
5:59:40have to say anything to the police in
5:59:42relation uh to this murder okay
5:59:45um but whatever you do say may be given
5:59:48as evidence in court okay
5:59:51and if it had anything to do with you
5:59:53that evidence could be used against you
5:59:55do you understand that
5:59:57you just have to say yes or no
5:59:59yes okay
6:00:00um
6:00:02now we've never met before right
6:00:06i just brought you from the front to the
6:00:08back here
6:00:09and we didn't discuss the case
6:00:11no okay so when when i meet somebody for
6:00:13the first time
6:00:15um i have to let them know that i don't
6:00:17want
6:00:18what you've said to any other police
6:00:20officer in this case
6:00:22to influence you or make you feel like
6:00:24you even have to talk to me here today
6:00:26okay and whatever you've said to date
6:00:30to anyone about this case you don't have
6:00:32to repeat that
6:00:33nor do you have to say anything further
6:00:35okay
6:00:36but whatever you do say that may be
6:00:38given as evidence do you understand that
6:00:41okay just tell me your understanding of
6:00:43what i've been telling you
6:00:45just tell me what you understand me to
6:00:47say
6:00:48in your own words
6:00:52take your time
6:01:04yeah
6:01:05and i don't want anything anybody else
6:01:07has said to you to make you
6:01:08feel like you have to even talk to me i
6:01:11want them influencing anything that may
6:01:13have said previously do you know what i
6:01:14mean
6:01:15okay i don't want you to feel forced
6:01:17into talking to me okay
6:01:19all right
6:01:21um do you have any other questions
6:01:25do you understand
6:01:27okay
6:01:28now
6:01:30what um since you and i have never met
6:01:34um
6:01:34of course i know a lot about you because
6:01:37i've been following the investigation
6:01:39okay but i don't know everything about
6:01:40you and i hate talking to people when i
6:01:42haven't formally met them okay
6:01:45so if i were to ask one of your friends
6:01:48about you or
6:01:50you wanted to tell me yourself what
6:01:51would how would you describe jennifer
6:01:53pan
6:02:04[Music]
6:02:16just maybe a bit about your history
6:02:17where you grew up and
6:02:19where you went to
6:02:23up here school i was born and grew up in
6:02:25toronto okay
6:02:34yeah i hear you're pretty good at it too
6:02:37yeah okay
6:02:39and uh what else do you like to do
6:02:45yep okay you're very good at that too
6:02:50yeah but at one point there was a
6:02:52passion of yours
6:02:53yeah okay what else
6:02:57i'm going back to school okay
6:02:59and when's that
6:03:01start
6:03:03okay and what are you going to be taking
6:03:05biotech
6:03:06okay
6:03:07and what's your future aspirations
6:03:12okay just hold on a second
6:03:21[Music]
6:03:39okay we're having technical difficulties
6:03:41here
6:03:42okay so that's why they interrupted me
6:03:44what we're going to do
6:03:45is if you don't mind holding tight there
6:03:47i'm just going to move my equipment to
6:03:48the other room okay and then i'll come
6:03:50over and we'll move over there next door
6:03:53okay
6:03:55okay i'm going to be right here though
6:03:57okay
6:03:59yeah if you have a problem just knock on
6:04:00the door and i'll come right over okay
6:04:02i'm just going to be three seconds i
6:04:03just have to take the stuff here move it
6:04:06over there and that'll come in okay
6:04:17[Music]
6:04:21so
6:04:38okay
6:04:54um
6:05:00so
6:05:16test of the video comment
6:05:18five district 20 second november
6:05:26[Music]
6:05:36one moment
6:06:09all right so we're going to switch rooms
6:06:11uh the equipment's not working we've
6:06:13never had a technical problem here but i
6:06:14have had it it has been audio tape we
6:06:17just lost the video and audio from the
6:06:19video machine itself
6:06:33okay
6:06:36so just for the record this room is
6:06:39being videotaped and audio tape just
6:06:41like the other one okay
6:06:43and i'm just gonna grab my chair from
6:06:45across the way okay
6:07:09okay
6:07:10so right now we're in a separate video
6:07:13room across the hall from the first one
6:07:16by my computer now it's 252.
6:07:19um the officer advised me the detective
6:07:22cook that we're having a problem with
6:07:24the other room the video and audio went
6:07:26down
6:07:27but everything that we talked about has
6:07:29been
6:07:30um audio taped
6:07:32on our portable audio
6:07:34okay
6:07:36all right
6:07:37now
6:07:38just for a recap
6:07:41we reviewed
6:07:42why i
6:07:43that you're here today discuss
6:07:46the home invasion that occurred at your
6:07:48residence at 238 helen avenue on the
6:07:528th of november
6:07:54okay
6:07:55and that
6:07:57in that incident
6:07:58your mother was killed and your father
6:08:02was
6:08:05shot
6:08:06but survived right
6:08:08and we reviewed
6:08:10what your rights are here today that you
6:08:12didn't have to speak to the police
6:08:16that anything that you do say to the
6:08:17police here today could be evidence is
6:08:19that correct
6:08:21yes you just have to speak a little
6:08:22louder
6:08:23okay
6:08:24and
6:08:26that if you had any involvement
6:08:30well first of all if you provided a
6:08:32false statement
6:08:34or lied to the police
6:08:36a person could be charged or you could
6:08:38be charged for
6:08:40obstruct police
6:08:42public mischief or fabricating evidence
6:08:45you understand that yes
6:08:47and that if you had any involvement
6:08:50[Music]
6:08:52in that home invasion then you could be
6:08:54facing charges of murder and attempted
6:08:57murder
6:08:58okay do you understand that
6:09:00okay
6:09:01and um anything that you do say to us in
6:09:04regards to that home invasion
6:09:07is being recorded here and that could be
6:09:09used as evidence in court okay
6:09:12you understood that
6:09:13and that you don't have to say anything
6:09:15to us in relation to this case but
6:09:18whatever you do say may be given as
6:09:19evidence
6:09:21right
6:09:22you understood that
6:09:23okay and lastly
6:09:26that um
6:09:28we've never met before so i don't want
6:09:30anything any other officers said to you
6:09:32to influence you or make you feel like
6:09:34you have to say anything to me here
6:09:35today and whatever you've said
6:09:37previously
6:09:38you don't have to repeat that nor do you
6:09:40have to say anything further but
6:09:42whatever you do say that may be given as
6:09:44evidence
6:09:45is that correct
6:09:46yes okay
6:09:50all right so we were just starting to
6:09:52talk about yourself and
6:09:55um you're telling me that you do
6:09:57or have had a passion for the piano
6:09:59and uh you do like figure skating okay
6:10:02what are some of your other likes
6:10:04what are the things you like to do
6:10:10yeah okay and who are your specific tv
6:10:13buddies
6:10:15okay and his last name
6:10:17okay
6:10:28now
6:10:29do you have a particular best friend
6:10:31right
6:10:32now would you say it's your best friend
6:10:37[Music]
6:10:38know who that you get along with that
6:10:40you have a special relationship with
6:10:43like a best friend who's the friend that
6:10:45you like the most or that you get along
6:10:47with the best
6:10:50daniel okay and what's his last name
6:10:53okay
6:10:54and
6:10:55uh why do you say that you're best
6:10:57friends
6:11:07we've been friends for a long time
6:11:11[Music]
6:11:17[Music]
6:11:20yeah okay so you have history
6:11:23okay
6:11:24and i know you've said some of these
6:11:26things the police before but i just want
6:11:28to go over it for my own understanding
6:11:29so when did you first
6:11:31date daniel
6:11:35okay
6:11:36and how did you actually meet
6:11:38you went to school again okay
6:11:40and what school did you go to new york
6:11:43and uh not a catholic school yeah okay
6:11:46and
6:11:47when did you start going to
6:11:49maryland in 2000
6:11:52okay
6:11:53so you started grade nine there
6:11:55okay
6:11:56and in elementary school where did you
6:11:58go
6:11:59what's that department
6:12:01okay
6:12:02um and do you practice um
6:12:05catholicism or do you practice a
6:12:07different are you catholic i do
6:12:11practice capitalism but uh i do believe
6:12:14in some good beliefs yeah okay that's
6:12:16good
6:12:17okay so you have uh
6:12:19um christian beliefs uh that are both
6:12:22catholic and buddhist
6:12:24religions
6:12:26um
6:12:27and how long
6:12:29uh were you baptized when you were born
6:12:31okay and were your parents catholic son
6:12:34my father okay your father okay
6:12:37and what about your
6:12:38mom okay so that's where you get the
6:12:41combination okay
6:12:43and um
6:13:01so
6:13:09okay
6:13:10um
6:13:11and growing up did you guys go to church
6:13:14every sunday or how did that go
6:13:17but every sunday that went
6:13:19for holidays and special occasions okay
6:13:23and you also had religion in school i
6:13:25guess
6:13:26okay
6:13:27and um did they go to
6:13:30uh
6:13:31church at school or not
6:13:33in elementary school i had a church next
6:13:36month yes okay
6:13:37i had the same thing so that's my mask
6:13:40okay and basically we went every friday
6:13:42morning
6:13:43uh
6:13:44the church because we were right beside
6:13:46it right so
6:13:48they had a special service first okay
6:13:50now
6:13:56what else can you tell me about growing
6:13:58up
6:14:02okay
6:14:04and
6:14:05um tell me about that schedule
6:14:12a little swimming a little crabby for a
6:14:14couple years
6:14:16[Music]
6:14:18okay
6:14:19and how did you get into skating
6:14:22to be honest i think my parents just
6:14:24applied okay
6:14:26and how old were you when you started
6:14:32okay so young and
6:14:34how long did you stay in it
6:14:39okay so quite a long time
6:14:42okay and what made you stop going
6:14:46okay no injuries
6:14:49okay
6:14:50if you didn't get injured would you
6:14:51still be doing it
6:14:53yeah okay that's nice
6:14:55and did you as far as that did you do uh
6:14:59like competition skating or okay
6:15:03and how did you do with that
6:15:05it wasn't at the top of the pack
6:15:09yeah so that's good though but you did
6:15:11actually enjoy it
6:15:12it was more than just going for a
6:15:15competition you enjoyed actually doing i
6:15:18was patrified as a conversation okay
6:15:21all right
6:15:22um
6:15:23and
6:15:24where would be the farthest place you
6:15:26would go for a competition
6:15:29like would you go outside of this area
6:15:31yes
6:15:33because i actually said i said
6:15:34scarborough toronto that's where i
6:15:36trained and grew up yeah
6:15:38i was until later that i moved up to
6:15:39richmond hill
6:15:43right
6:15:44but we went everywhere from
6:15:47florinsville
6:15:49mississauga just in around southern
6:15:51ontario yeah okay
6:15:55and tell me about the piano when did you
6:15:57start with piano
6:16:00wow
6:16:01okay and you're still doing it i
6:16:03understand okay
6:16:05and i hear you actually teach
6:16:07i taught a bit and
6:16:17[Music]
6:16:20and are the exams practical or are they
6:16:22practical and practical like
6:16:25practical and written written okay
6:16:27and
6:16:29like an exam how long would that take to
6:16:30write
6:16:32writing exams take about two to three
6:16:33hours okay
6:16:36and are you in that process right now
6:16:39yeah okay
6:16:40and so
6:16:42when do you hope to complete that
6:16:46june by june
6:16:48yeah okay
6:16:50and um
6:16:53so you went from
6:16:55a student and now to a teacher
6:16:59okay
6:17:00and
6:17:02although you don't have
6:17:04your highest papers you were still able
6:17:06to teach students
6:17:08yeah okay
6:17:09what does the actual
6:17:11whole paper give you what will you be
6:17:13able to do with that
6:17:14it's just a
6:17:16formality
6:17:17an achievement
6:17:18okay credentials
6:17:20okay
6:17:22can you charge more
6:17:23i don't know
6:17:25okay when you've been uh teaching
6:17:28um what would you charge for lessons
6:17:34mainly they were just family friends so
6:17:36it was just ten dollars
6:17:38yeah
6:17:39and how many students what have you been
6:17:41teaching
6:17:44okay over what time period
6:17:54and do you have any students right now
6:17:57okay
6:17:58and why not
6:18:00the students are teaching they went to
6:18:02high school and lost insurance oh okay
6:18:04yeah too big for panel
6:18:08yeah i took it in grade school too but
6:18:09uh
6:18:11i think i got i went to grade seven in
6:18:13it i think like in
6:18:15when i was in grade 7 i stopped taking
6:18:17it but
6:18:18i still remember swans on the lake
6:18:21i don't know how to play that that's
6:18:22about it
6:18:25now
6:18:28i understand what kind of jobs have you
6:18:30had um
6:18:32serving jobs okay
6:18:34and when was your last one
6:18:36um
6:18:39[Music]
6:18:41okay
6:18:42and when's the last time you worked
6:18:43there
6:18:47two years
6:18:48two years ago
6:18:52and was that your last serving job
6:18:55okay
6:18:56and previous to that
6:19:00okay and what time period did you work
6:19:02there
6:19:22and how long
6:19:26okay you spent three or four years there
6:19:28okay why did you switch from um east
6:19:31side to boston pizza
6:19:33um when i went over to boston
6:19:36i did both for a little bit okay yeah
6:19:38and i found
6:19:51the experience was better for you okay
6:19:55and
6:19:56um
6:19:57but you haven't done that in about two
6:19:58years
6:20:00okay
6:20:00and any particular reason
6:20:03um
6:20:11[Music]
6:20:14and what is it that you're hoping you're
6:20:16going back to school what is your
6:20:18ultimate goal
6:20:20for school
6:20:22i want to finish this three-year biotech
6:20:24course yep and see how the field is
6:20:26after after three years because i know
6:20:28it's booming now but i'm not sure how
6:20:30it's maybe in three years okay
6:20:32and what was the number what job would
6:20:34you like to get from it
6:20:39like what are some of the jobs that you
6:20:40would get with a degree in that
6:20:44i haven't really looked into it
6:20:47all right
6:20:49um
6:20:51now
6:20:52if you can pick any job yourself
6:20:56i'm not talking about anybody else but
6:20:57if you could pick
6:20:59for yourself what would it be
6:21:03[Music]
6:21:10a simple maybe like the last technician
6:21:12job just
6:21:13works
6:21:16like eight hours
6:21:21and so why don't you do that
6:21:24uh i actually did try to apply her uh
6:21:26from the technicians that i wasn't
6:21:28eligible to enter okay and you could
6:21:30take
6:21:43this other course you're on you've been
6:21:45accepted yeah okay
6:21:47um
6:21:49okay
6:21:50and from that i guess you could be a
6:21:52technician though
6:21:54i believe that if i get through the
6:21:57first year okay i would i will be
6:21:59eligible to transfer to the technician
6:22:01courses okay all right sounds good
6:22:04okay um
6:22:06now
6:22:08i understand that um
6:22:12you mentioned a schedule
6:22:14okay
6:22:15um
6:22:17whose decision to have you on the
6:22:19schedule who's
6:22:21well it was more along the lines of
6:22:25where i was at my feeding level yeah and
6:22:27what times were needed to be at certain
6:22:29places yeah okay
6:22:32so but basically you didn't have time
6:22:34for much other than school skating
6:22:37piano that's a lot
6:22:39yeah okay
6:22:41now
6:22:42um
6:22:43eventually you were discussing daniel
6:22:46what's happened with that relationship
6:22:48um
6:22:56they found out they
6:22:57didn't like the fact that he was a mixed
6:23:00race
6:23:01okay
6:23:05okay
6:23:06and how did that make you feel
6:23:16and
6:23:17he was the person who just
6:23:19filled an empty void for me
6:23:22so i felt that a part of me was missing
6:23:26um
6:23:29and when did you feel the part was
6:23:31missing
6:23:32when you broke up you felt the heart was
6:23:34missing is that what you're saying when
6:23:35they first told me to stop seeing
6:23:37himself talking to him i just i
6:23:40felt like the parliament was missing
6:23:42depression okay and how old were you
6:23:45when this happened
6:23:51okay so um
6:23:5224 now right
6:23:55when you're 21 they told you to stop
6:23:57seeing them or 2021
6:23:59and how old were you when you first
6:24:00started dating
6:24:03okay
6:24:05and from 17 to 20 21 they didn't know
6:24:09about relationship
6:24:10okay how did they find out
6:24:13um
6:24:14one day when my mother came to pick me
6:24:16up
6:24:26okay and somehow they saw each other i
6:24:29guess oh my mother saw me um
6:24:32okay i gave it away
6:24:34okay
6:24:35and then
6:24:36when she asked about it what did you
6:24:38tell her
6:24:40i told her that you know we've been
6:24:42dating a little bit
6:24:43but
6:24:44when we were in school we saw each other
6:24:46okay all right
6:24:48and so was that the whole truth or not
6:24:51it was at that point
6:24:53what happened next man
6:24:57i tried to bring him home
6:24:59my mother at first you know bring them
6:25:02home by the feeding
6:25:03when i brought them home
6:25:07they didn't they automatically didn't
6:25:09like it for some reason okay
6:25:13okay and what is it you mentioned
6:25:16already that he was mixed race okay
6:25:19which is what
6:25:22okay
6:25:23and your parents themselves what
6:25:25races are they
6:25:28okay
6:25:29what was the problem
6:25:31with um
6:25:32chinese and uh filipino they didn't see
6:25:36him as a chinese
6:25:45so that was their personal belief or
6:25:48personal outlook on filipinos
6:25:51okay
6:25:52and
6:25:53okay so you were told to
6:25:57stop seeing him
6:25:59so what happened then
6:26:01at first i stopped for a while
6:26:04but like i said i
6:26:05just felt really empty and i felt
6:26:07depression and
6:26:09i started talking
6:26:10again okay
6:26:13and how would you
6:26:15get a chance to see him
6:26:17um
6:26:17[Music]
6:26:19seeing him was really difficult
6:26:21um before classy right there
6:26:24not much time but
6:26:27uh sometimes i'd ask a friend of mine
6:26:30gary who's a mutual friend of ours
6:26:32he'd come and tell last night that he's
6:26:34looking up for dinner and the three of
6:26:36us would go up to dinner together okay
6:26:39so he'd pick you up with the house
6:26:41gary
6:26:42and what grace is he
6:26:44his white guy okay
6:26:46and
6:26:47did they have a problem with white guys
6:26:49or
6:26:50no they didn't have a problem with you
6:26:53going to dinner with uh garrett
6:26:56no
6:26:57and
6:27:00they were just against this guy
6:27:03daniel
6:27:05now
6:27:06were they against you going out with
6:27:08friends
6:27:10a little bit yeah okay but they let you
6:27:12go with gary so well
6:27:14it was like i said they
6:27:17didn't say yes often but when they did
6:27:19all right so and then what would happen
6:27:22you would then
6:27:24gary would take you to daniel uh we
6:27:26would meet up at it like our sushi place
6:27:28okay where was that
6:27:30sometimes we go to
6:27:33taste of japan
6:27:46[Music]
6:27:48and
6:27:49um so you like sushi
6:27:51my friend gary likes sushi okay
6:27:54and how did you meet gary
6:27:56you're daniel
6:27:57daniel okay
6:28:00but he's become your friend as well
6:28:03and when's the last time you would have
6:28:04spoke to him
6:28:06it's been a while
6:28:10three four months and
6:28:12um since you and daniel broke up how
6:28:14often
6:28:15would you see gary
6:28:18[Music]
6:28:20see him
6:28:21when he stopped by my house sometimes if
6:28:23my mom was at work
6:28:25okay
6:28:26and how many times do you think gary
6:28:28took you to see daniel
6:28:34and when would the last time have been
6:28:46and where's gary actually live
6:28:51quickly
6:28:53uh have you ever been to his place
6:28:55where abouts they live
6:29:12you don't know what kind of car i
6:29:14believe
6:29:17now
6:29:18how was daniel taking it
6:29:21when your parents said that you couldn't
6:29:23see him anymore how did he take it
6:29:34and how did you feel
6:29:42now
6:29:44after high school what did you do first
6:29:46school
6:29:47i didn't
6:29:48um but i lied to my parents okay so tell
6:29:51me about that what happened there
6:29:53what was their impression and
6:29:55what were you doing in the meantime
6:29:57they thought that i was going to school
6:30:00at ryerson for the first couple years
6:30:02and then i did i transferred to ut
6:30:05[Music]
6:30:06but i was actually working in the
6:30:08daytime okay and where were you staying
6:30:11at the first two two three years i was
6:30:14saying i was coming back home every day
6:30:16um but my final year except that it was
6:30:18difficult yeah and so i would stay at
6:30:20dinner
6:30:21so you actually live together for a year
6:30:24well if his parents played yeah okay
6:30:27um so where would you stay in that house
6:30:29then
6:30:31[Music]
6:30:32but when his parents felt more
6:30:34comfortable they let me stay with him
6:30:36okay
6:30:36all right so you were you slept in the
6:30:38same room for a while
6:30:40all right so
6:30:41is it fair to say that you had an
6:30:43intimate relationship
6:30:44yeah
6:30:46and of course your parents didn't know
6:30:47that
6:30:48no okay
6:30:49and how long was the relationship
6:30:52intimate would you say
6:30:54you've been dating for seven years on
6:30:55those things
6:30:57at what point did it become intimate
6:31:01um
6:31:04yeah okay um and
6:31:07his parents were i guess more liberal
6:31:09than your parents
6:31:11his parents uh
6:31:14yeah okay
6:31:16and um they recognized that you loved
6:31:19each other
6:31:20and so they let you stay in the same uh
6:31:23you moved up to his room or how did that
6:31:25was next door okay there were two rooms
6:31:28in the basement
6:31:30one main floor okay and where were the
6:31:32parents from crosstalk okay
6:31:36um
6:31:37i'm guessing that sometimes you sneak
6:31:39into each other fruits
6:31:41before they let you do it no no you
6:31:43didn't
6:31:44i'm just thinking what young people
6:31:46would do
6:31:47okay um but all how long did you end up
6:31:49staying in the same room before you
6:31:52moved back home
6:31:54[Music]
6:31:59so you lived there for two years
6:32:02like i still came home every weekend and
6:32:04stuff yeah yeah okay but they thought
6:32:06and they thought you were aware on
6:32:08campus
6:32:10okay
6:32:11and if they phoned you they would just
6:32:13call your i called them every
6:32:18um
6:32:21how what ended up how did they find out
6:32:24you weren't going to school
6:32:28they asked for records and at first i
6:32:31wasn't able to
6:32:33and then
6:32:34um after i said i'd finished
6:32:37um
6:32:37[Music]
6:32:38i didn't feel that i needed i could
6:32:41i didn't feel that
6:32:42i told them i didn't want to do the
6:32:44pharmacy like from pharmacists i want to
6:32:47be a technician yeah i find
6:32:49responsibilities
6:32:51so much
6:32:53i told them that i wasn't really
6:32:55into it
6:32:56and
6:32:57[Music]
6:32:58because i hadn't gone to school for if i
6:33:00had lied about it i didn't want to go
6:33:02and
6:33:03pursue like applying for the job when i
6:33:05didn't have the qualifications okay
6:33:08and they thought you did have the
6:33:09qualifications
6:33:11okay and how did you try to prove to
6:33:13them that you did have the
6:33:14qualifications
6:33:18i got a friend of mine to buy online
6:33:22take diploma okay
6:33:25and who what friend was that
6:33:26[Music]
6:33:28daniel okay
6:33:30what'd they cost to buy a fake uh
6:33:33500 or something wow okay
6:33:36and
6:33:38um what happened when you gave them that
6:33:40then
6:33:41they stopped me for a bit until they
6:33:43realized i wasn't actually i wasn't
6:33:45pursuing looking for the job
6:33:48they're wondering what was going on
6:33:50okay
6:33:51then what was the next step
6:33:53what ended up
6:33:54how did you end up back home i guess
6:33:58they
6:33:58[Music]
6:33:59called up my friend
6:34:01who i said i was staying with in the
6:34:03middle of the night
6:34:05and
6:34:07she's groggy and
6:34:09i forgot
6:34:10what day it was so she was like isn't
6:34:12she home and i wasn't home
6:34:14okay
6:34:15she messed up
6:34:17i don't blame her a bit no okay
6:34:20and what was that friend's name
6:34:23okay so she was your cover
6:34:25okay and she
6:34:27uh basically
6:34:29uh got caught because they called him
6:34:31another night
6:34:32okay
6:34:33and so then what how did they approach
6:34:36you on that
6:34:37they called me your name when i come
6:34:38home
6:34:39right now
6:34:41okay and what happened
6:34:43um
6:34:44that's when i like
6:34:45it like
6:34:47you're staying home
6:34:49[Music]
6:34:53okay
6:34:54and what did you say to that plan
6:34:58that
6:34:59i i was still uh
6:35:02doing my piano career
6:35:04and i didn't feel that
6:35:07like
6:35:09i felt that my final career could take
6:35:11me
6:35:12and that um
6:35:15i didn't i didn't understand really okay
6:35:19so you expressed your opinion
6:35:21uh but they want it more
6:35:23they said that they wanted their
6:35:24education okay
6:35:27okay
6:35:28and
6:35:30so
6:35:31ultimately a plan was set up i guess
6:35:34and what was that plan
6:35:36to go back to school okay this january
6:35:40uh actually was looking for september
6:35:42but uh
6:35:43they were it was too late to apply
6:35:46so i
6:35:47i
6:35:48reapplied for january
6:35:52now when did this actually happen
6:35:55that they found out every year that they
6:35:57brought you home
6:36:01and so
6:36:02um what's been happening in the last
6:36:05year and a half now
6:36:07like you finally got into school now i
6:36:09understand
6:36:10what's been happening for the last 18
6:36:12months a lot of channels like catching
6:36:14up on my series and stuff
6:36:17a little
6:36:18and
6:36:19[Music]
6:36:22it's pretty much piano and then i also
6:36:24did a little summer school
6:36:25to get my high school calc so i could
6:36:28apply it because i know calculus is a
6:36:29big thing
6:36:31uh applying for college and universities
6:36:33now so i did do that one summer as well
6:36:35okay and how what's your math skills
6:36:38like
6:36:39they were pretty good but they've gotten
6:36:41arrested over together
6:36:44yeah you're not 18 or 19-year-old
6:36:47and you haven't done it in a few years
6:36:50uh so do you just uh is it home studies
6:36:52or is it internet study i did it
6:36:57are you doing any correspondence i know
6:37:00no okay
6:37:01and so what was the when they said this
6:37:04is what's going to happen what were all
6:37:06the rules they got put in place to make
6:37:08sure it happens
6:37:21okay
6:37:25or if i went out with a friend they'd
6:37:27need to like call and make sure
6:37:29okay
6:37:30and did you have a curfew or anything
6:37:33um they always said before that nine
6:37:35o'clock
6:37:36okay
6:37:38and would they ever waver on that
6:37:41uh just once because there's my friend's
6:37:44wedding
6:37:45whatever section
6:37:46yeah and how long did you get to stay
6:37:48with them
6:37:52how do you
6:37:53get to and from things when you want to
6:37:55go somewhere uh they drive me do they
6:37:57drive yes
6:37:58do you have time to say no it's like a
6:38:00class that i always go to they'll let me
6:38:02take the car okay you do right
6:38:05yeah
6:38:07so how's that felt
6:38:09being under those guidelines for the
6:38:11last 18 months
6:38:14it was okay like
6:38:17it wasn't the best feeling in the world
6:38:18because
6:38:26and so you made a choice between what
6:38:30living out on my own
6:38:36and did they say you could stay out on
6:38:38your own if you wanted to
6:38:40um
6:38:41[Music]
6:38:42at one point that was said but my dad
6:38:44also said that he'd uh hire private
6:38:47investigators
6:38:49okay
6:38:50he didn't like that option
6:38:52he's not bad it's just like i chose to
6:38:55feel my parents that wasn't even okay
6:38:57like he said it in
6:38:58arguments but yeah i wasn't leaving
6:39:02okay did you feel you really had a
6:39:03choice or not
6:39:05there was no choice because family was
6:39:07concerned okay
6:39:09and
6:39:10where do you get that from
6:39:14where do you get that belief
6:39:17okay so family's number one
6:39:20yep
6:39:22um
6:39:25now you said you were depressed
6:39:28when were you depressed
6:39:30what time period did that start
6:39:38um i was discussing elementary school
6:39:40for a little bit okay
6:39:43the depression started
6:39:45i'd say
6:39:48hard
6:39:49theory about
6:39:50two years ago
6:39:52okay
6:39:53at the time of this or
6:39:55what brought on the depression
6:40:01just
6:40:02i wasn't happy with any parts of my life
6:40:05okay which included what
6:40:08[Music]
6:40:10i regretted not going to school
6:40:13um
6:40:15my piano wasn't going as fast as i was
6:40:17liking
6:40:19um
6:40:23my friends were moving on with their
6:40:24life and it felt that i was
6:40:27wasn't going anywhere i was kind of
6:40:28being left behind
6:40:35that
6:40:37i didn't understand why i
6:40:41said at 21 that i had to be home at nine
6:40:44o'clock
6:40:46i can see that
6:40:47okay
6:40:49and
6:40:50what's how what was the worst the
6:40:52depression got
6:40:54i
6:40:55got myself okay
6:40:57and when did that happen
6:41:02hi
6:41:03where did you do where did you go
6:41:06um once people started noticing i've
6:41:09hided other places but never twice
6:41:12before
6:41:13so how many cuts do you have on you
6:41:15no no
6:41:16no
6:41:17they've healed
6:41:18okay
6:41:19and
6:41:20did you want to kill yourself
6:41:24yeah okay when's the first time that you
6:41:26actually thought you would try and kill
6:41:28yourself
6:41:36at 19.
6:41:38what was going on at that time that
6:41:40brought it on
6:41:43[Music]
6:41:50it came to the realization that
6:41:54like
6:41:57my family dynamic is very
6:41:59broad
6:42:01[Music]
6:42:09and you really weren't able to tell
6:42:12your parents you weren't in school
6:42:15so it was tough living a double life
6:42:17type thing
6:42:18but is that fair to say
6:42:20yeah okay
6:42:22and
6:42:23um
6:42:25did you ever try to actually kill
6:42:27yourself
6:42:28i tried one
6:42:30yeah what did you do
6:42:44and where did that happen
6:42:50um i guess you just got tired
6:42:54you woke up the next day
6:42:56like i stopped myself oh okay you you
6:42:59could have taken more but you didn't
6:43:00okay
6:43:02all right
6:43:03um when you were cutting
6:43:06um were you actually trying to kill
6:43:07yourself
6:43:09what were you trying to do
6:43:10controlling one part of my life
6:43:12okay and what did that do for you
6:43:15when you actually cut
6:43:18i was able to feel physical pain so i
6:43:20didn't have to think of like other pains
6:43:22in my life okay so the distractor
6:43:25okay did anybody know you were cutting
6:43:28not at first okay who was the first if i
6:43:31knew
6:43:40him
6:43:41and what did he say
6:43:43he was like don't be stupid
6:43:47uh did your parents ever find out
6:43:49they noticed it but they never
6:43:52they don't i don't think they realized
6:43:54what it was said
6:43:55[Music]
6:43:58what's the lowest you ever got
6:44:01was the lowest moment you've ever had
6:44:19if my brother had moved out and walked
6:44:20on to school and i was home alone
6:44:29so he was kind of a bond while you're at
6:44:31home
6:44:34and so you guys got along all
6:44:36right far as brother and sister go
6:44:39well we we we had our moments but uh
6:44:42there's just an unsaid
6:44:44unsaid bond yeah which is nice
6:44:47okay
6:44:48uh but when you were on your own it was
6:44:50a lot tougher
6:44:53you didn't have that ally in the house
6:44:56okay
6:44:57now when you said there was fighting
6:44:58what kind of fighting went on in the
6:45:00house
6:45:04bickering about what were the issues
6:45:08housework
6:45:09has worked okay
6:45:11and who was bickering
6:45:13okay
6:45:14and who are they bickering at each other
6:45:16each other
6:45:17so there's some tension there
6:45:20okay
6:45:22how would you characterize their
6:45:24relationship over the last couple years
6:45:47and what what do you think the problem
6:45:49is what's the issue what happened
6:45:58my mother took on a lot of
6:46:00responsibility doing everything and
6:46:02paying the bills in the house
6:46:07she was just set up for doing it by
6:46:09herself
6:46:11okay
6:46:12so she was depressed too or not
6:46:19okay
6:46:20um
6:46:22who's the boss of the host then what'd
6:46:24you say
6:46:26okay
6:46:27and so
6:46:29what does that mean
6:46:39okay so he has the final say on
6:46:41and how did your mom take that
6:46:53if you had a real problem
6:46:55could you ever go to either one of them
6:47:01and what would you and your mom discuss
6:47:07okay
6:47:09and
6:47:10um did she agree with your father's
6:47:13plans or not
6:47:15sometimes
6:47:18okay
6:47:20ultimately they wanted you to be
6:47:22educated i guess was their
6:47:24is their goal
6:47:25okay
6:47:27did you ever feel that they expected too
6:47:29much of you
6:47:32also
6:47:43comparison to other people
6:47:45okay so who would they compare you to
6:47:50classmates
6:47:52love me
6:47:55okay
6:47:55and so some of them have been successful
6:47:58recently
6:47:59okay and what did they say to you
6:48:06okay so that's pretty hard right hard to
6:48:08take for you
6:48:10what i've heard on my life
6:48:13nothing
6:48:14okay
6:48:15um
6:48:16now
6:48:18was there ever any um physical abuse in
6:48:23your household
6:48:28you had to think about that
6:48:30when you're a kid you know just
6:48:32a little tap on the bottom okay you got
6:48:34a spanking but that's it
6:48:36you were never
6:48:37[Music]
6:48:39injured or
6:48:40and
6:48:41um your
6:48:42mom and dad weren't physical with each
6:48:44other
6:48:45did you did you ever see them be
6:48:47physical with each other
6:48:50um
6:48:53now
6:48:55do you feel
6:48:57um i get the feeling that
6:49:01um
6:49:06they think you could do any job there is
6:49:11is that true or
6:49:14i don't know i guess my question for you
6:49:16is did you ever feel like
6:49:18i know you're smart and they believe
6:49:21you're very smart
6:49:23but did you ever feel you weren't as
6:49:25smart as what they thought that you were
6:49:28okay i get that feeling
6:49:30that
6:49:31it's pretty tough to live up to their
6:49:33expectations
6:49:34okay like your dad ultimately would like
6:49:37to see you be like a doctor
6:49:39that type of thing
6:49:41and maybe
6:49:43uh you can't do it
6:49:47right i'm not saying you can't but i get
6:49:49the feeling that
6:49:51those were pretty high standards for
6:49:53anybody
6:49:55not everybody can be a doctor
6:49:58okay
6:49:59and but they may have acted like
6:50:03you could have done it no problem
6:50:05is that fair
6:50:10i don't want to say something that's not
6:50:11accurate but i just get the feeling that
6:50:13um
6:50:15their expectations were so high that few
6:50:18people would be able to reach that
6:50:19expectation
6:50:21i'm not just talking about you i'm
6:50:22talking about anybody
6:50:25and it started at a young age it didn't
6:50:28start just when you went to university
6:50:30it's been an expectation
6:50:32that
6:50:35since you were a child that he would be
6:50:37successful
6:50:38better than everybody else
6:50:41now
6:50:42um
6:50:45in that um
6:50:47when did your
6:50:49parents come to canada
6:50:54okay but you were born here
6:50:57and your brother was born here
6:50:59and
6:51:00where did they actually meet you know
6:51:02how they got together they met back home
6:51:04but
6:51:06they they just knew of each other back
6:51:08home okay which back home means vietnam
6:51:10okay
6:51:12and when uh
6:51:14and did they grow up in the same
6:51:16neighborhood or
6:51:17same town or something i guess town
6:51:20maybe yeah okay area
6:51:27okay so
6:51:29eventually
6:51:31um
6:51:34how did they
6:51:36what else did you do to her time you
6:51:38were in school
6:51:41what kind of things would you do to try
6:51:42and
6:51:43make it look like you got your grades or
6:51:46when they asked for something i'd try to
6:51:48make a document for them okay so what
6:51:50type of documents did you
6:51:54do
6:51:55okay
6:51:57okay and how did you do them
6:52:03and
6:52:04what did they say when they saw the
6:52:07report cards did they ever question it
6:52:12no
6:52:14up until
6:52:15how did they actually figure it out when
6:52:17i know they figured out you weren't
6:52:18living with your friend
6:52:20um
6:52:22do they still at this point even know
6:52:24that you don't have any university
6:52:28okay when do you find him
6:52:33so up until this event they just thought
6:52:36that i didn't go to school sit full time
6:52:39but they still thought you had some
6:52:41credits
6:52:44how did it feel having to lie to them
6:52:46all those years
6:52:50i wanted to tell them but
6:52:53they always looked down and disappointed
6:52:57okay
6:52:59i'm sure there were days when you
6:53:00actually
6:53:01plan that this is the day i'm going to
6:53:03tell them and then
6:53:05you just couldn't spit it out
6:53:09all right
6:53:15no
6:53:17well if
6:53:19your parents had let you would you still
6:53:21be with daniel
6:53:25if they didn't interfere what would what
6:53:26would have happened
6:53:42and do you want more of that
6:53:46i'm not sure i do right now
6:53:49all right um
6:53:52since the time you come home have you
6:53:54wanted to you still went and saw him so
6:53:57obviously you're trying to keep
6:53:58something going
6:54:00okay
6:54:01at what point did he move on
6:54:05um
6:54:09[Music]
6:54:12nine or february of 2010 of this year
6:54:172010 okay
6:54:19and how
6:54:20how did he move on
6:54:23one of his old
6:54:31okay
6:54:31and how does that make you feel
6:54:35i knew that we weren't together so
6:54:37okay
6:54:38but it made me feel that
6:54:41i wasn't good enough
6:54:42to be waiting
6:54:44to wait you mean okay so what was your
6:54:46kind of plan then go back to school and
6:54:50get my degree
6:54:52make something of my life in my parents
6:54:54and then once i make my life then see
6:54:57where we would go okay
6:55:00um
6:55:01so
6:55:03it was upsetting that he didn't wait
6:55:05till that played
6:55:06okay out
6:55:08for you for me yeah what about him
6:55:12he still came back and said that you
6:55:14know i love you and
6:55:15if the certain chances were different
6:55:17but it's not okay
6:55:19um did you ever plan a future together
6:55:26okay like marriage
6:55:29some days you'd say yes in the days
6:55:31okay so you brought it up
6:55:34you bring it up sometimes okay so
6:55:36ultimately because you went out for so
6:55:38long they could have ended up in
6:55:39marriage
6:55:40still could someday i'm not saying
6:55:43okay
6:55:44all right um
6:55:51on a fairness scale where would you put
6:55:54the this
6:55:55did you feel it was a fair decision
6:56:00that 24
6:56:02you have to stay at home with the curfew
6:56:04of nine o'clock
6:56:09back in action
6:56:11do you think it had to be that strict
6:56:13though
6:56:16well considering my past that
6:56:19i thought it was a little strict but i i
6:56:21understood okay
6:56:25over the years
6:56:26what other things have you had to hide
6:56:28from your parents
6:56:35well just besides having boyfriends and
6:56:39not going to school
6:56:41okay did you have a different boyfriend
6:56:43at one point then
6:56:45i did eatering for like four months in
6:56:47high school so okay that wasn't i didn't
6:56:49know about it it wasn't much it wasn't
6:56:50dating it was high school
6:56:52it was just i'll see you in class
6:56:55okay what grade were you in at that time
6:56:56um
6:57:01what have your friends said about all
6:57:03this
6:57:08well they don't know about the whole
6:57:10school thing they're just not going back
6:57:11to school
6:57:12okay who else knows that you never went
6:57:15to school though topaz
6:57:18she
6:57:20yeah she kind of knew
6:57:23she thought i was staying with daniel
6:57:25okay that was the cover but she thought
6:57:27you were still going to school
6:57:29okay she didn't know the whole story
6:57:31but she knew she was your cover
6:57:33for she just thought it was so they
6:57:35wouldn't know where you were staying
6:57:37okay
6:57:39did anybody else know
6:57:41that you weren't going to school who who
6:57:43would know that
6:57:46daniel yeah
6:57:48anybody else
6:57:52no
6:57:53did his parents know
6:57:57just you and daniel
6:58:03what other things have you
6:58:06in your depression had to lie about over
6:58:08the last year
6:58:17and how did you end up eventually
6:58:19communicating
6:58:26okay how did that work
6:58:29i
6:58:30texted him and
6:58:31he took me back whenever i could
6:58:34just delete them when i got
6:58:37now how did your
6:58:39parents monitor this cell phone
6:58:42went out around them they didn't like me
6:58:44on it okay so what would they say
6:58:47who is that what is it
6:58:49why is it so important
6:59:04more than
6:59:08and what were the occasions that
6:59:10resulted in them taking it away from you
6:59:13on the phone too much or
6:59:15they stopped if i was daniel for
6:59:21okay so where would you be trying to
6:59:22make these calls from where would you be
6:59:24in the house
6:59:25in the basement like if i had to go get
6:59:27something in the basement or if i was in
6:59:29the washroom
6:59:31okay so they would actually watch you
6:59:33every second almost well not every
6:59:36second but they knew where they were all
6:59:38the time and if they heard you talking
6:59:42now did they ever barge into the room
6:59:43and take the phone off you
6:59:45no no
6:59:46okay um
6:59:48so
6:59:49a lot of times i guess you're trying to
6:59:51text so make one no
6:59:53it's not fair to say
6:59:55okay so how did they find out you were
6:59:57talking daniel then
7:00:14the call history
7:00:18and
7:00:19did they ever find it before you got to
7:00:20delete it
7:00:24now did they ever take the phone but you
7:00:26had another phone
7:00:28okay so how did that work
7:00:30you got me on this one and i just
7:00:32whenever i wanted to attack them i
7:00:34plugged in a pink card
7:00:36but i kept this card out of the phone in
7:00:38case they found the phone yeah i know
7:00:40there will be no card in it
7:00:42so did they know you had more than one
7:00:44phone
7:00:45no okay
7:00:46now
7:00:47how many phones did you end up having
7:00:51and which for what
7:00:52uh the bell line that he had that daniel
7:00:56bought for me yep
7:01:10i didn't give it out so i don't remember
7:01:12i'll remember like
7:01:14519 with the middle three numbers oh
7:01:17okay
7:01:18uh it's a bell
7:01:20cell number
7:01:21and he gave it
7:01:23so you can plug that sim card into any
7:01:25phone and it'll work
7:01:27so you could even put it in your
7:01:29is it a samsung phone you had yes uh it
7:01:32didn't work on it they had ppi
7:01:35okay
7:01:36and so where did you get the iphone then
7:01:40he got it for me and my brother he has
7:01:42one um he got uh two of them then he had
7:01:46to put fixed around
7:01:48and the internet didn't work on the one
7:01:50i had okay
7:01:52um
7:01:54now you mentioned you were looking to
7:01:55get a new phone
7:01:57what were you trying to get my contract
7:01:59was pending i was thinking of looking
7:02:01into buying uh another phone uh fido
7:02:04appliance was good but i didn't like the
7:02:05phytophone
7:02:07i was planning on i got the sim card i
7:02:10didn't activate it yet because i wanted
7:02:12to wait for my roger's plan to be over
7:02:15um and then i'm going to go to fido and
7:02:17then go to pacific mall and buy a thing
7:02:19that i like okay
7:02:21how much would a home be
7:02:22800
7:02:24okay
7:02:24like is it the new one
7:02:26what kind of phone were you hoping to
7:02:27get iphone 4
7:02:30or the new blackberry
7:02:31the latest
7:02:33now you actually had a blackberry at one
7:02:35point though and my brother yeah he gave
7:02:37me one of his friends old ones okay
7:02:40but it didn't again no internet no
7:02:42nothing
7:02:43you need that internet eh well it wasn't
7:02:45that i needed it it was just convenient
7:02:47you'd like
7:02:48it now um did they ever take an iphone
7:02:52off of you did they ever find it did
7:02:54they just always take your samsung phone
7:02:57[Music]
7:02:58so right now you actually have a third
7:03:00chip then you're saying
7:03:03yeah i just bought it um but i hadn't
7:03:06activated it yet
7:03:07and that was with who i know and what's
7:03:10the number for that there is nothing i
7:03:11it's just i just bought the
7:03:14box oh the box okay sim card only
7:03:18okay and what kind of phone can it go
7:03:20into it it came with uh like i bought a
7:03:2350 phone
7:03:24if you want to activate it it would work
7:03:26okay and i don't know the model which is
7:03:28the
7:03:29basic phone
7:03:32[Music]
7:03:40okay so where is that phone now then um
7:03:42it was at home where my brother just
7:03:43brought it for me but
7:03:57have you been back to the house since i
7:04:12now
7:04:13when's the last time you spoke to your
7:04:15dad
7:04:17um
7:04:20saturday okay
7:04:23and he called me
7:04:25this morning just to
7:04:26see if my brother has made it into
7:04:28school with me
7:04:30and
7:04:31what have you and your father discussed
7:04:34about this case
7:04:36he just asked me if
7:04:38daniel was behind it
7:04:40okay and i told him i don't know 100 but
7:04:43i don't think he did okay
7:04:45why would he ask that
7:04:48because
7:04:49you believe that we still talk
7:04:52and that you could anyone
7:04:56what do you think about that
7:04:59i know that he's moved on so i don't
7:05:00think he would
7:05:02because he'd like to be with me
7:05:11what else did you discuss about the case
7:05:15about what happened that night
7:05:20i haven't spoken to him about it
7:05:23nothing about what went on
7:05:25any details no all you said was
7:05:29that was it
7:05:32okay
7:05:34and you told him you don't think so i
7:05:36don't think
7:05:47you can't say no
7:05:49you can't say for sure not
7:05:51is that what you're saying
7:05:55has he told you that he did it
7:05:57as daniel told you that he's done it or
7:06:00had anything to do with it
7:06:02nope
7:06:04okay
7:06:05now
7:06:07um
7:06:08who else have you discussed the case
7:06:10with
7:06:13well the officers and my social workers
7:06:17i haven't
7:06:18spoken anything
7:06:26my uncle did ask me if he confronted me
7:06:28about
7:06:29something
7:06:31about having a black friend but i
7:06:34didn't know what he was talking about
7:06:37do you have any black friends
7:06:40no but when he said that the police
7:06:41officers had a photo of me
7:06:45talking with a friend
7:06:46uh it wasn't he's not really a friend he
7:06:49was more a friend of mine's roommate
7:06:52okay so i didn't like
7:06:56he's not a friend of mine
7:06:57but um yeah i did i did meet up with him
7:07:01once or twice okay
7:07:03okay and who is that
7:07:05my friend andrew one of his old
7:07:07roommates
7:07:08i only know him by brick
7:07:09rick
7:07:10okay
7:07:11and where did you meet him
7:07:14um the first time he met me near my
7:07:17piano school
7:07:19um
7:07:21just said uh we just met up and my
7:07:23friend andrew was like she was on the
7:07:25phone and i got my friend
7:07:29my friends were busy working with baba
7:07:31and they were having some rent problems
7:07:35so uh they asked me if i could help them
7:07:37out with their rent
7:07:38okay so what happened
7:07:40so i met up with him a little later at
7:07:42asian court just chatted a bit and then
7:07:46i lent him the money
7:07:48okay
7:07:49so how much money did you end up um
7:07:55[Music]
7:07:58and this is give it to this red guy
7:08:01okay
7:08:01and he was introduced to you through
7:08:03andrew okay what's andrew's lesson
7:08:07is that wendy the friend she talked to
7:08:09all the time
7:08:10um don't talk a lot but occasionally we
7:08:14go through like
7:08:15a week or two of talking a lot and then
7:08:17we drift apart for a couple months honey
7:08:20spells lastly
7:08:22monta mayo montenegro
7:08:29[Music]
7:08:388643
7:08:40618 86 43 647 start is that the andrew
7:08:44you were talking to the night
7:08:47um
7:08:49uh before you talked to the other
7:08:51gentleman
7:08:52before edward yeah okay
7:08:54um okay so now rick um you met him where
7:08:59it agent court
7:09:01and what
7:09:02uh it was canadian shepard
7:09:05kennedy and shepard and what what type
7:09:07of place did you meet him at like
7:09:09when i met him we went for coffee
7:09:11then we walked around and i went to the
7:09:13library because andrew wanted to meet me
7:09:16and see
7:09:17the place because we hadn't seen each
7:09:19other in a while
7:09:20okay we'll see what place i see now i
7:09:23come visit you okay and so you came back
7:09:25to your house
7:09:27so i gave rick the address so that uh he
7:09:30can go home and give it to andre and i
7:09:33showed him how to commute because he
7:09:35doesn't drive so i showed him how to
7:09:36commute
7:09:38uh so you took rick up to your place no
7:09:41you just told him where it was
7:09:44and he was to tell andrew
7:09:46who then could come and visit you
7:09:48sometimes
7:09:50um and so what uh what was the building
7:09:53that you met uh for coffee at what was
7:09:55the coffee shop that's important
7:09:57okay and where was the location
7:10:01when was that
7:10:06i'm not sure
7:10:08spring summer i don't remember exactly
7:10:11okay
7:10:12um
7:10:14this year
7:10:15okay
7:10:17um
7:10:19second time you met him that was the
7:10:20second time where did you meet him the
7:10:22first time i told you uh near my channel
7:10:24okay sorry
7:10:26and
7:10:27where
7:10:28specifically
7:10:29can't uh
7:10:32we're at another coffee shop or what was
7:10:34it no it's just i just finished piano we
7:10:36introduced each other
7:10:37and then i had to go in okay
7:10:40and
7:10:41who else was there
7:10:42nothing
7:10:43okay
7:10:45and how did he know to come see you
7:10:47there we were on the phone with andrew
7:10:49and andrew
7:10:50yeah and where was andrew at the time
7:10:55and so
7:10:57the first time you met him what did you
7:10:58talk
7:11:00[Music]
7:11:04okay so he was living with andrew at the
7:11:06time
7:11:07are they still living together
7:11:09i don't think so
7:11:10okay and where were they staying
7:11:15okay
7:11:16and
7:11:17who
7:11:18um why didn't andrew just meet you he
7:11:21was doing uh he's in the process of
7:11:24doing
7:11:25insurance stuff okay i think he was
7:11:27doing classes or seminars or something
7:11:29so he wasn't able to come out to toronto
7:11:33and what race is andrew
7:11:36filipino okay
7:11:37and
7:11:38um
7:11:40this rick guy him and uh andrew lived
7:11:43together for how long i'm not sure
7:11:46that he was a really good friend
7:11:47and they lived together and so
7:11:50what was the time that you met him first
7:11:52then what was that
7:11:54maybe just a week before i met him
7:11:57okay
7:11:59um
7:12:00and
7:12:01what did you discuss then nothing it was
7:12:03just uh who was who he was and yeah
7:12:07and then i had to go okay and so the
7:12:08next time you met him how come you met
7:12:10him the second time
7:12:12because that's after that andrew was
7:12:14like yeah we're having
7:12:16problems with rent
7:12:19and okay so they wanted money
7:12:23my friend andrew wanted to see if i
7:12:25could see them uh if i could lend him
7:12:27some money
7:12:29and so you did
7:12:30and you gave the money to who
7:12:32okay
7:12:33now they
7:12:35met tim
7:12:36hortons what else did you discuss that
7:12:39day
7:12:40just
7:12:41what he was doing like you said he liked
7:12:44japanese manga books and
7:12:47japanese mango books they're like comic
7:12:49books
7:12:50that's his hobby what else like i asked
7:12:53him if he was working he's like no i'm
7:12:54looking for a job and
7:12:57i just want my piano stuff and that was
7:12:59about it
7:13:01what is it that andrew actually does
7:13:03he's uh doing some sort of like
7:13:07selling life insurance i believe
7:13:09what companies but
7:13:12they try to sell you a policy yet or
7:13:15usually they go after their friends
7:13:17first yeah i told them right off the bat
7:13:18i'm like i'm okay i'm not buying
7:13:20anything
7:13:21okay so um
7:13:23he
7:13:24uh you gave him eleven hundred dollars
7:13:27where did you get the eleven hundred
7:13:28dollars
7:13:30i
7:13:30have a lot saved up from an hour serving
7:13:46okay all right so right now how much do
7:13:49you have a thousand you're saying well
7:13:51now i don't have anything right okay
7:13:54okay
7:13:55so
7:13:56um
7:13:58now
7:13:59before andrew took the money how much
7:14:01did you have
7:14:092 000.
7:14:13and so
7:14:15you gave him 1100 has he paid that back
7:14:17yet
7:14:18i talked to him recently but he's
7:14:20working on it he's just working at home
7:14:22since right now
7:14:23and
7:14:24he just moved back home so that should
7:14:26decrease his rent
7:14:28he's working
7:14:41what about him where is he i haven't i
7:14:44don't know
7:14:44i haven't spoken to him
7:14:47for a long time six months now
7:14:50you're just more than acquainted
7:14:52okay so after you gave him the money did
7:14:54he give you a receipt or anything
7:14:57what was his promise to you about how he
7:14:59would pay you back
7:15:00well andrew said that he'd pay me back
7:15:02when he said
7:15:03you didn't give any timelines
7:15:05no no okay
7:15:08um
7:15:10okay so
7:15:12and after you talked or saw rick have
7:15:15you seen him since that day he gave him
7:15:17the money
7:15:18okay have you talked to him since
7:15:20maybe a week after but no okay what did
7:15:23you talk to me after no just asking how
7:15:25he was if the rent was okay and
7:15:28what he was doing was like just watching
7:15:29some of his friends kids or something
7:15:32and where was their apartment
7:15:34somewhere
7:15:35[Music]
7:15:37i guess they're not are you saying
7:15:38they're not there anymore
7:15:40yeah i know my andrews is back home
7:15:44um
7:15:46okay do you know any other black guys
7:15:49not that are very very close with me
7:15:52okay um who would be that you aren't
7:15:55very close to you
7:15:57daniel's best friend is uh black
7:15:59okay what's his name carlos finch
7:16:02carlos finch
7:16:03okay
7:16:04and
7:16:05um have you ever talked to him or
7:16:09how come you say they're best friends
7:16:12they went to elementary school together
7:16:13and they grew up together
7:16:15they still hang out
7:16:17um i believe i
7:16:19believe so when's the last time you saw
7:16:21cardinals
7:16:27um
7:16:28does daniel still hang out with him then
7:16:30i believe so when's the last time they
7:16:33would have been you've seen them
7:16:35i've seen them together
7:16:38daniel ever talking about them
7:16:40sometimes for birthdays and stuff
7:16:43for my birthday or his birthday
7:16:48and so when when your last birthday was
7:16:50did you go out with carlos was carlos oh
7:16:53me no
7:16:54no i meant like his birthday or carlos's
7:16:56birthday
7:16:57um when daniel's birthday comes around
7:17:00do you make a point of seeing him
7:17:02i try but it doesn't always work out
7:17:07um
7:17:12okay
7:17:13um
7:17:18how many
7:17:19uh
7:17:20so a personal
7:17:21black friend you don't have one or you
7:17:23do
7:17:24um how about filipino friends
7:17:29um
7:17:30edward's filipino is a good friend of
7:17:32mine
7:17:34um andrew like i said we'd talk but
7:17:36we're not really like close we don't
7:17:37ever see each other
7:17:39i can never get out to see him
7:17:42uh what about white friends
7:17:45eatering think of it like i said in
7:17:48berry
7:17:49okay there are the two
7:17:52now is tim convinced is that
7:17:54ukrainian european
7:17:56yeah okay you know where he's actually
7:17:58from or
7:17:58he's born here his parents were born
7:18:00here too
7:18:01oh born here yeah oh whoa i believe
7:18:04though okay but his grandparents from
7:18:06the ukraine i believe he's very
7:18:09into the ukraine yeah
7:18:12culture um
7:18:19now
7:18:21obviously we've spoken to a lot of
7:18:22people right
7:18:24one of your relatives said that you had
7:18:26mentioned that
7:18:28these guys liked you
7:18:30that broke into the house
7:18:34why did you say that i didn't say that i
7:18:36said that i asked them why like when
7:18:39they separated my parents away from me i
7:18:41asked them what can i do with them
7:18:43and
7:18:44they're just like you cooperated just
7:18:46keep cooperating
7:18:49okay so you're saying
7:18:51you made that comment to a relative that
7:18:53they liked you
7:19:07did you feel like they liked you no they
7:19:10were
7:19:12if you have a gun your head i don't
7:19:13think they they like you very much okay
7:19:16but they didn't shoot you
7:19:19why did they not shoot you
7:19:21i i don't know when i when
7:19:25they took my parents away i asked to go
7:19:26with them and they're like shut up
7:19:30but you must have thought of this you
7:19:32must be thinking i i still do and i i
7:19:35spoke
7:19:43the only thing they could say was they
7:19:45kept saying that you know i cooperated
7:19:47and to shut up and cooperate keep
7:19:49cooperating did you feel you like your
7:19:50parents didn't cooperate
7:19:54i don't know
7:19:56okay is there something that they didn't
7:19:58cooperate with
7:19:59they were trying that's what i mean like
7:20:01so really they did cooperate
7:20:04when you think about it there was no
7:20:06money to be found
7:20:09they told the truth
7:20:11that
7:20:12he had 60 right
7:20:17so there wasn't anything that he wasn't
7:20:19cooperating
7:20:21i don't know
7:20:23i'm just trying to say you were there
7:20:25i'm just trying to get a feel for did
7:20:26you think he wasn't cooperating no
7:20:29i thought that he was everyone was
7:20:30cooperating that's what they kept saying
7:20:32no one will get hurt
7:20:34i'm trying to figure out
7:20:36where they didn't cooperate
7:20:41is there any time that you believe they
7:20:42didn't cooperate i wasn't with them the
7:20:44entire time i was going with them for a
7:20:46short period of time but during that
7:20:48time that you were there you were in the
7:20:50house did you hear them not cooperating
7:20:52i guess with the questions
7:20:54i didn't hear anything they just kept
7:20:56asking where everything was but
7:20:58my mom couldn't remember okay did you
7:21:01did your parents lie to them
7:21:05i don't know
7:21:06that you can from anything you heard did
7:21:08they tell a lie
7:21:11i don't know like all i know i don't
7:21:13know how much my father had i didn't
7:21:15know how much
7:21:16okay but they ultimately found your
7:21:18dad's wallet i'm not sure
7:21:20okay
7:21:22and your mom's purse i
7:21:24they couldn't find it
7:21:26and then they took me away
7:21:28okay um
7:21:34but they never said they never lied to
7:21:36them i guess is what i'm getting down to
7:21:37that you remember
7:21:40during any interaction you had
7:21:44also understand it no no like do you
7:21:47feel like they cooperated
7:21:53now do you think there's any reason why
7:21:56they tied you up and didn't tie your
7:21:58parents up
7:22:06i don't know
7:22:08does that seem odd to you
7:22:10why isn't she mod
7:22:13because i was away um up here separated
7:22:16from the muscle time
7:22:20and
7:22:21does it make sense that they would leave
7:22:23a witness behind
7:22:27they were going to kill somebody
7:22:29does that make sense
7:22:32i guess
7:22:34just thinking about it but it makes
7:22:36sense for somebody that was going to
7:22:38kill somebody to leave a witness behind
7:22:41that could describe them
7:22:43does that make common sense for killers
7:22:47it's not
7:22:51what do you think
7:22:55do you think that was a mistake they
7:22:56made then
7:22:57i don't know they kept saying that
7:22:58they're running out of time
7:23:01doesn't take a long time to tell someone
7:23:03i know i don't know
7:23:05okay
7:23:06when you say they kept saying who kept
7:23:08saying
7:23:09perpetrator okay which ones though
7:23:14one of them
7:23:15kept telling me that you know it's taken
7:23:17too long
7:23:20how long did this thing last in your
7:23:22mind
7:23:24i know you didn't have a watch on but
7:23:26or i guess you did have a watch on
7:23:28didn't you
7:23:29um did you look at the time at all
7:23:33did you look at the time on your cell
7:23:35phone at all
7:23:40just estimating how long it went on how
7:23:43in your mind because you were there how
7:23:45long would you think you lost it
7:23:51i don't know
7:23:53i know what people told me approximately
7:23:57okay which is about what half hour
7:24:04all right now i have your statement here
7:24:06the first one that you gave so i just
7:24:08want to go over some of the information
7:24:09there just to
7:24:10make sure that i i understand okay
7:24:13um
7:24:15in the morning
7:24:16um
7:24:19your mom was going to visit your
7:24:21grandfather
7:24:23and
7:24:24um she went outside and then there was a
7:24:26problem with the gas leak
7:24:28on the street
7:24:29is that right
7:24:31okay when she first went out did you go
7:24:34out with her
7:24:35no no
7:24:37okay
7:24:38when she
7:24:40was going were you going to go with her
7:24:43originally
7:24:45you never were going to go see your
7:24:46grandfather
7:24:48i'd seen him the day before and she said
7:24:50to concentrate on my studies
7:24:53just that you did go outside so i was
7:24:55wondering she
7:24:56came back in and
7:24:59she told you to come over okay
7:25:02uh because of what
7:25:04exactly
7:25:05okay
7:25:06so she had gone out and then she came
7:25:07back to get you
7:25:09and then you went out together i it went
7:25:11into change
7:25:19and then
7:25:21you went back out and they called the
7:25:22gas leak off
7:25:25and you went back in and your mom went
7:25:27to see your grandma
7:25:28is that correct
7:25:31was anyone else at the house at that
7:25:32time
7:25:35yes no
7:25:36no
7:25:39and
7:25:40[Music]
7:25:41then you went and
7:25:43on to the internet
7:25:46or did some studies
7:25:48and you played some games on facebook
7:25:51is that correct
7:25:52okay
7:25:53what games do you play on facebook
7:26:00[Music]
7:26:02what's the last one
7:26:04okay
7:26:05and are you playing against somebody or
7:26:07by yourself
7:26:19okay so that morning were you playing
7:26:21against him
7:26:22you don't play against like
7:26:24you send each other gifts and
7:26:26you work on your own
7:26:29okay
7:26:30and so you uh
7:26:32were working on which all three of those
7:26:35games or just one of them
7:26:43i don't know all of them a little bit
7:26:45just a little bit of that okay
7:26:47and
7:26:48how do you when you go on how do you get
7:26:50a hold of him to know do you have to
7:26:52phone him ahead of time and say let's go
7:26:53online or what do you do
7:26:56like you do your own thing and then you
7:26:57know if you're online and the other
7:26:59person don't mind you just
7:27:00message somebody can you send me this
7:27:02gift for that kid okay and so is that
7:27:04what you did that day you were in
7:27:06communication with him i think i don't
7:27:08remember anymore okay
7:27:10all right
7:27:12okay then
7:27:13um
7:27:16you played some piano how long would you
7:27:18play the piano for
7:27:23customer
7:27:24network okay and what do you actually do
7:27:26are you practicing are you going over
7:27:28stuff you already know or are you
7:27:30playing for pleasure are you playing for
7:27:38okay and then i do a little bit of
7:27:42practical for my dad and then i
7:27:44do a little bit for a project okay so
7:27:46it's a combination of everything
7:27:49okay
7:27:50and you do that for about a half an hour
7:28:06okay so you go through the day and
7:28:07eventually your mom comes back around 3
7:28:1030.
7:28:19did she tell you how your grandfather
7:28:21was doing or did you talk about that
7:28:24yeah
7:28:30and what's happened with your
7:28:31grandfather since
7:28:34okay and when did that happen
7:28:37well
7:28:38it's hard to hear that
7:28:40and were you guys closer
7:28:44what was your relationship like with him
7:28:51quite old yeah
7:28:53and he doesn't remember much okay
7:29:00yeah okay
7:29:01and that's your mother's father
7:29:04okay
7:29:05and what about your grandma is she still
7:29:07around or
7:29:08no okay
7:29:09and
7:29:10he was in the nursing home i understand
7:29:14and
7:29:15when did he actually come to canada do
7:29:17you know
7:29:19okay so years ago
7:29:24he brought the family over yeah let's
7:29:26see how refused
7:29:28pardon me
7:29:29they all refuge to cancer okay
7:29:32and
7:29:33does your mom have some brothers and
7:29:34sisters or
7:29:36thoughts okay and did they all come over
7:29:39most of it
7:29:41and
7:29:43do some of them live on your street or
7:29:44is that your dad's side
7:29:47okay so how many and that's who you're
7:29:49staying with now
7:29:50your hand your mom's sister
7:29:58and what's your aunt's name
7:30:00and you're staying with me
7:30:03you don't you don't you don't
7:30:05you don't
7:30:07yeah okay
7:30:10all right
7:30:22okay so adrian came over
7:30:25is that right
7:30:27okay
7:30:28and anything
7:30:30uh you watch some shows did you talk
7:30:33about anything
7:30:36like when you watch your shows do you
7:30:38have uh
7:30:39talk about them after or how's that
7:30:41how's the evening going with him
7:30:44and
7:30:45what's next after the joke
7:30:48okay
7:30:49and what were you watching that night
7:30:59and how many shows did you actually
7:31:01watch
7:31:14and so the whole time he was there did
7:31:15you watch tv or did you have some
7:31:17conversation or
7:31:19even tv conversation
7:31:21what's that just talked about
7:31:23what else did you talk about though
7:31:27that's it
7:31:28never talk about anything else
7:31:30when you watch tv do you eat
7:31:33i offered him for them
7:31:35no he had already eaten
7:31:37dinner
7:31:38he didn't want anything
7:31:41and from your place how far away does he
7:31:43actually live
7:32:01do you ever do tv night at his place
7:32:05and obviously what would your parents
7:32:07think of him
7:32:11why do they like
7:32:12him his mom
7:32:15his mom
7:32:17and parents are good
7:32:20and
7:32:22do the parents know each other
7:32:26okay like do they go to the same church
7:32:29or anything like that or
7:32:30same social events or anything
7:32:34but they
7:32:36say they know they come from a good
7:32:37family
7:32:40um now you went up to once he left
7:32:44what did you do after he left
7:32:50okay what did you do
7:32:55and this is the same andrew that you
7:32:59lent the money to
7:33:00okay
7:33:01and what did you guys talk about
7:33:05how are you doing girlfriend
7:33:07okay and how is he going
7:33:11like uh he said that he's now working
7:33:13with home sense he moves back home and
7:33:15put straight on the relationship that
7:33:16they work together
7:33:19she works at home since no she works at
7:33:21the insurance
7:33:22company works for
7:33:24okay so he got two drops
7:33:27i guess
7:33:28like i know the insurance thing is just
7:33:30whenever it is so the other one
7:33:32[Music]
7:33:33okay
7:33:35and what else did he talk about
7:33:50sometimes one of us contacts one you can
7:33:52just get one conference again
7:33:54but you're you're verbally talking on
7:33:56the phone
7:33:57okay and how long did that go on for
7:34:00not long
7:34:03i don't remember the call time
7:34:10[Music]
7:34:17so you did call that and then what did
7:34:19you guys talk about
7:34:21watching tv
7:34:22[Music]
7:34:25now is this a routine for you to phone
7:34:27out in the evening to people or
7:34:29okay
7:34:30um do your parents mind you calling
7:34:32people or
7:34:36so it's not just daniel they don't want
7:34:38you talking to it's they don't want you
7:34:39on the phone at all or yeah not late
7:34:41night no nightmares okay
7:34:44but was that considered late or what
7:34:52and because your dad actually goes to
7:34:54bed fairly early
7:34:56i think so i don't remember when he
7:34:57actually no in general
7:35:05and your mom do your mom and dad sleep
7:35:07in the same room or do they sleep apart
7:35:10sometimes
7:35:11but
7:35:12lately
7:35:13in my brother's room okay which is
7:35:19okay all right so the one across from
7:35:21your room okay
7:35:23how long has she been doing that for
7:35:25three years
7:35:27so it's more than lately then
7:35:29okay so for two years she's been
7:35:30sleeping across the hall
7:35:33any particular reason
7:35:41or just having
7:35:45now what's her normal turn in time
7:35:50[Music]
7:35:53okay so she stays up later than
7:35:54everybody
7:35:56or maybe you stay up late too i don't
7:35:58know what what's your usual turn in time
7:36:01[Music]
7:36:02okay
7:36:04you go to your room but how long do you
7:36:05usually stay up watching tv and
7:36:07trying to talk on the phone
7:36:16um
7:36:17so is your dad a sound sleeper that
7:36:20sometimes yeah and he's upstairs
7:36:23during those times but your mom's
7:36:26she
7:36:27before when she stays up to midnight
7:36:29what does she do
7:36:34and where does she do that from living
7:36:35here
7:36:37how does it make you feel that they
7:36:39don't get along very well
7:36:47what does that do to you
7:36:50[Music]
7:36:52okay
7:36:53and when you mediate what do you got to
7:36:54do
7:37:01the common ground
7:37:02okay
7:37:04and what's kind of the common ground
7:37:05that you usually go to
7:37:14so you try to be if you can be good for
7:37:16them it'll help them is that your
7:37:18position
7:37:21um
7:37:25now what's your typical fight about
7:37:29my dad being loud and
7:37:32noisy and considerate
7:37:49for other people's houses that he
7:37:50doesn't think and
7:37:52do at our house like decorating and
7:37:54upgrading
7:37:56okay
7:37:57but when he talks about his friends
7:37:59houses he has a lot of ideas
7:38:02but he doesn't apply them to
7:38:04okay and how does that make your
7:38:05vomiting
7:38:07but he doesn't care about this
7:38:12how does that make you feel
7:38:16i know that pushes
7:38:25[Music]
7:38:28did your brother ever have to mediate
7:38:40and he was at home at the time it was
7:38:42last year
7:38:46and then when he left you were on your
7:38:48own again
7:38:51what do you and your brother discuss
7:38:53about that
7:38:54how does how do you
7:38:57feel about it
7:39:10so separate
7:39:12them um
7:39:15the arguments how what do they do during
7:39:17the arguments
7:39:21yeah
7:39:23okay
7:39:24and when you hear the yelling what does
7:39:26that do to you
7:39:29tell me i need to go to where they are
7:39:31to help them
7:39:32calm down
7:39:39and how often do they actually get in
7:39:41one of these loud fights
7:39:49and what was the last fight that they
7:39:50had
7:39:53my father came home okay
7:40:00and they had an argument about them
7:40:03and how did that go
7:40:07my
7:40:08mom okay
7:40:11my dad left first and then sorry
7:40:14he left after he came from work and then
7:40:16he called up my uncle left and then my
7:40:18dad got home and ate dinner my mom had
7:40:20to leave
7:40:24so they didn't have the time to
7:40:26but originally
7:40:28there was a fight that night
7:40:30okay
7:40:31and what did your mom say to your dad
7:40:37where did you go until that time that
7:40:39you didn't believe that just forgot to
7:40:41lock his
7:40:43something at work
7:40:45okay
7:40:47did it sound unreasonable to you or
7:40:51i don't know
7:40:52if you forgot something about working
7:40:54for thousands but usually why she was
7:40:56yelling because he doesn't turn on his
7:40:57phone if he doesn't let us know
7:40:59okay she
7:41:00didn't think it was considerate i guess
7:41:03the argument really was
7:41:04not so much that you're late but you
7:41:06didn't call about it never
7:41:09if i'm wrong tell me but i'm just i
7:41:11think something
7:41:13and
7:41:14um
7:41:16but he was about a half an hour late
7:41:18compared to usual 20 minutes
7:41:23what did she think he was doing in those
7:41:2440 minutes
7:41:29did she believe that his story or not
7:41:38no was she more upset that he was late
7:41:40or that he just didn't call
7:41:43he has a phony he never used it okay
7:41:47um the supper is it usually made for a
7:41:49certain time every night
7:41:51which is what time
7:41:55so he'd have been home in time for that
7:41:57though
7:42:01now
7:42:02um when you went up to your room to get
7:42:04ready for bed what does that entail
7:42:12okay
7:42:14and uh what do you wear to bed
7:42:20comfortable
7:42:21okay
7:42:22do you wear pajamas
7:42:25sometimes
7:42:26okay what what would make you wear them
7:42:28or what would make you not wear them
7:42:30laundry like how easy i am or how
7:42:33comfortable my regular clothes are okay
7:42:35did you actually change your clothes at
7:42:37night
7:42:38i put on a sweater
7:42:41okay
7:42:47and what did you have for bottoms
7:42:55please like
7:42:56your black
7:42:58and so did you actually change in out of
7:43:01them
7:43:02or had how long had you had those on
7:43:09i don't know when would you put them on
7:43:11that day
7:43:13maybe in the morning
7:43:21underneath the skating shirt what did
7:43:24you have on
7:43:33so you had to take something off
7:43:35that's why i'm just getting to
7:43:37if you put that on did you take anything
7:43:39off my bra
7:43:41okay okay
7:43:44because you obviously weren't walking
7:43:45around with just your bra all day
7:43:48is that fair
7:43:49i'm sorry i just don't want to yeah it
7:43:51takes time
7:44:19how did the conversation end with that
7:44:22i heard my father my mother calling for
7:44:24my father
7:44:30and then what
7:44:31did you have to go through this again
7:44:33okay at um when you went to bed was your
7:44:36mom home yet
7:44:38she's just gotten home and i went down i
7:44:40told that i'll be right back and i
7:44:42i went down i said hi to her and
7:44:45i went back up to my room okay so what
7:44:48time would have that been i guess is
7:44:49what i'm trying to get at
7:44:519 15
7:44:53okay so she got home you went down how
7:44:55long did you when she came home she
7:44:57changed yeah and then
7:45:00that's when i know she came home when
7:45:01she went to change
7:45:02and 25 ounces and
7:45:05i went down just say hi grab a glass of
7:45:07water i believe and
7:45:08went back up to my room okay
7:45:11and then you were back on the hole in
7:45:12the bed
7:45:14when you heard what
7:45:16i'm calling
7:45:19so
7:45:21when you went down to see your mom what
7:45:23did you talk about
7:45:27she was watching her tiny shows i just
7:45:28left her alone
7:45:30okay
7:45:31and what else did you do while you were
7:45:32downstairs
7:45:35let's go get a glass of water and then
7:45:37went back up
7:45:39okay
7:45:41and where did you get the glass of water
7:45:42from
7:45:45um
7:45:47now
7:45:49while you're downstairs at any time do
7:45:51you make sure that the house is secure
7:45:54that's your person who goes to bed
7:45:57okay
7:45:58just in our house anytime anybody's
7:46:00going to bed they usually each one of us
7:46:02end up doing it in case somebody else
7:46:04forgets so did you uh check the front
7:46:06door at all
7:46:07no
7:46:11no no back door side doors
7:46:15okay if you were the one to go to bed
7:46:18last what doors would you check back
7:46:20door front door
7:46:21okay what would you do
7:46:24make sure that they're locked
7:46:25okay
7:46:26and if they weren't locked
7:46:29okay
7:46:30um
7:46:31and the back door
7:46:33how do you guys secure that
7:46:38pulling closer okay is that a slider do
7:46:41you guys put a piece of wood in there at
7:46:43all no so you just make sure it's locked
7:46:47um
7:46:48and so who would be the person that
7:46:50mostly does that though
7:46:52okay
7:46:54is it typical that if she's coming in
7:46:56late that she would lock it
7:47:03you know i mean if it's already dark
7:47:04outside would she
7:47:06lock the door as soon as she comes in
7:47:10you know as opposed to being in the
7:47:12middle of the day you just i think i'm
7:47:14pretty sure i don't
7:47:17know
7:47:18like that's to say you came in and it
7:47:20was already dark outside
7:47:22what would you do
7:47:24behind me
7:47:25yeah
7:47:26because you don't intend on going out
7:47:28again
7:47:29it's just common
7:47:31practice
7:47:33all right
7:47:52were you injured at all
7:47:54during the whole process
7:48:01okay not really
7:48:03anything
7:48:05oh okay
7:48:07when they tied your hands what kind of
7:48:09uh style did they tie them i'm not sure
7:48:14okay
7:48:14and when they tied you to the banister
7:48:16how did they do that
7:48:23[Music]
7:48:32okay yeah
7:48:34what could you feel
7:48:37a tight and then like another tight
7:48:40where did it feel tight
7:48:45okay
7:48:46so what was around your upper arm
7:48:51okay
7:48:52and what was around
7:48:53how else were you tied
7:48:58and
7:49:00where your wrists tied to the banister
7:49:04how do you know
7:49:06did they tie my wrist first and have my
7:49:08arms open
7:49:10okay
7:49:12now
7:49:13um
7:49:17you mentioned um on the tape that you
7:49:19were getting loose
7:49:21what did you mean by that
7:49:25my upper arm
7:49:37and how did you get it to do that
7:49:41i don't remember
7:49:48um and where did that string end up on
7:49:51the police car
7:49:54okay
7:50:09one thing i do want to go over is the
7:50:12description
7:50:14of the gentleman that you said you call
7:50:17them number one
7:50:19can you tell me that again
7:50:26the first person that
7:50:28you dealt with or that
7:50:34can you help me with that
7:50:53slightly shorter than sorry just
7:50:54slightly shorter than me yep which is
7:50:57what
7:50:58i need five six yep
7:51:02what kind of build
7:51:07now what type of face
7:51:09round feet
7:51:11okay
7:51:13and
7:51:16age
7:51:21and then there was a
7:51:23another gentleman
7:51:26that you called number two
7:51:28previously
7:51:31how would you describe him
7:51:45was his face covered the whole time
7:52:00okay i appreciate that and
7:52:02the third person
7:52:07okay well you did see some of them
7:52:15and what color
7:52:27okay
7:52:29and how do you know it was caribbean
7:52:32it's probably like right here
7:52:34on tv
7:52:39what about um
7:52:41voices for the other two number one
7:52:57neither of them had an accent or i would
7:53:00shoot him
7:53:02when he did speak
7:53:05okay and what were those syllables
7:53:09okay yeah
7:53:12and what else did you hear from him
7:53:17all right
7:53:18um do you need anything to drink at all
7:53:25okay you realize that it's important
7:53:27though
7:53:32[Music]
7:53:34obviously
7:53:37everything
7:53:38is so important that night that
7:53:40is probably the most important night of
7:53:42your life and i know it's tough to keep
7:53:45going over but it's important okay
7:53:48i'm just going to step out for a second
7:53:49okay
7:53:51did you need anything
7:53:54nope okay
7:53:57that won't be long
7:54:00[Music]
7:54:16uh
7:56:20so
7:57:13okay sorry about that
7:57:16all right
7:57:19um
7:57:22the money that you
7:57:25they took from you how much was that
7:57:26again
7:57:34of mine and i don't realize i believe
7:57:36i heard my mom give it to me
7:57:38but
7:57:41of your own 2000 okay and what kind of
7:57:44denominations was that
7:57:51okay
7:57:52and if you had it in a stack how big
7:57:54would that stack be
7:58:01okay
7:58:03and where did you keep that
7:58:06in my
7:58:11and how long had you kept it there
7:58:22okay
7:58:23and before that six months
7:58:30okay which is where
7:58:33why did you switch it up
7:58:38okay
7:58:39so you moved it over did you have any
7:58:41other money in your room in any other
7:58:42places
7:58:45in my wallet
7:58:46okay did they get that
7:59:00you saw him take it or
7:59:02not okay and you haven't been back to
7:59:05check since
7:59:09okay gotcha
7:59:10now um
7:59:13and where did that money come from
7:59:24how much did you withdraw
7:59:28500 twice but uh
7:59:30it was to
7:59:39and when did you take that 500.
7:59:52and where did you get that from
7:59:55where did that come from
8:00:11i don't remember where
8:00:15you went through a teller or did you go
8:00:17through a cash machine
8:00:19okay for both or just one
8:00:24i'm pretty sure
8:00:25okay
8:00:26and how much did you take out each time
8:00:29is that your maximum that you can take
8:00:31out on the machine okay how much do you
8:00:33have in your account
8:00:42okay
8:00:43and where did that come from
8:00:47your mom and when did she give it to you
8:00:50she gives me these checks
8:00:52that she works and she puts
8:01:07and she puts it in your name and you
8:01:09have to give her the money back then
8:01:12okay at the time i withdrawn and give it
8:01:14to her okay and how come you hadn't
8:01:17withdrawn or how come you hadn't given
8:01:19it to her yet
8:01:21she hadn't asked for it
8:01:32so why would you not just give it to her
8:01:33then
8:01:35why would you withdraw
8:01:36and not give it to her
8:01:41i'd only give it to her because i should
8:01:43forget to write it in her book
8:01:45okay
8:01:47all right so how often does she give you
8:01:49that she has a check made out to you do
8:01:52you put the deposit in or
8:01:54okay how often does she make a deposit
8:01:57in your account
8:02:00once a week okay for 500 or whatever
8:02:07and they come from a packaging company
8:02:09and where's that
8:02:14[Music]
8:02:16and does she report there every day or
8:02:19no just whenever they need to go in okay
8:02:23all right
8:02:24um
8:02:25okay
8:02:26now
8:02:28the reason
8:02:29why i'm here today okay is
8:02:32that i'm an expert okay in
8:02:35what we call truth verification
8:02:38okay i'm not a homicide detective
8:02:40okay although i work on a lot of
8:02:41homicides
8:02:42okay
8:02:43so my job in any case and anybody that
8:02:47the witness in this case
8:02:49i have to speak to
8:02:51okay after they've been interviewed
8:02:52originally by anybody else
8:02:55okay and so what it's about is truth
8:02:57verification okay
8:02:59so
8:03:01basically all my studies come into
8:03:04interviewing and
8:03:06detecting deception
8:03:09determine if somebody's telling the
8:03:11police the truth okay
8:03:13because every investigation that we run
8:03:16that's a homicide we run a parallel
8:03:18investigation okay and when i talk about
8:03:20a parallel investigation what i mean by
8:03:22that is obviously the detectives that
8:03:24are assigned to the case
8:03:26okay are trying to determine who's
8:03:28responsible for the home invasion who's
8:03:31responsible
8:03:32[Music]
8:03:33for what happened there okay
8:03:36that's their job okay my job is to
8:03:39determine
8:03:40whether everything somebody has told us
8:03:43as a witness
8:03:44or as a reporting party is actually the
8:03:47truth
8:03:48okay
8:03:49now in my experience as a police officer
8:03:52no matter what the case is
8:03:53okay
8:03:55for some reason or another people make
8:03:57mistakes
8:03:58in that
8:04:00they don't always tell the truth
8:04:03okay
8:04:05they may tell some of the truth but they
8:04:07don't always tell all of the truth you
8:04:09know what i mean
8:04:10okay and i know in your life you've
8:04:12already had occasions where
8:04:14you you're well aware what half truths
8:04:16mean right
8:04:17what do they mean
8:04:20yeah
8:04:21so
8:04:22when we're talking about truth we're not
8:04:24just talking about a person saying
8:04:26something
8:04:27uh that's not true right that's one way
8:04:30of not telling the truth simply by
8:04:32making something up
8:04:34right you agree
8:04:36okay
8:04:36but also withholding information is not
8:04:40telling the truth okay it's purposeful
8:04:43deception really right okay they're
8:04:46leaving stuff out that may assist the
8:04:48investigation okay that may lead uh
8:04:52to the people that are responsible from
8:04:54being caught right
8:04:55um and that's where
8:04:57uh we talked earlier about
8:05:00um so some people obstruct the
8:05:02investigation okay because they they
8:05:04provide facts that are totally not true
8:05:07okay other things they tell about the
8:05:09case obviously did happen so what we
8:05:11talk about is a combination
8:05:13of people
8:05:15telling things that are totally not true
8:05:18leaving information out would be two
8:05:20ways that people
8:05:22haven't been truthful
8:05:24okay
8:05:25so how
8:05:26do i make my conclusions
8:05:29okay
8:05:30so some of the ways is obviously i count
8:05:33on my experience right i talk to
8:05:36thousands of people okay
8:05:39and i
8:05:39basically know when somebody's not being
8:05:42straight forward with me okay i can tell
8:05:45by the language they use how they answer
8:05:47the questions their body language how
8:05:49they treat the question
8:05:52that something's wrong here okay this
8:05:53doesn't make sense
8:05:55okay
8:05:56the other thing is something an
8:05:58understanding of what common sense is
8:06:00okay
8:06:01could this have happened that way
8:06:04by what the person's telling me because
8:06:06if it even happened like that okay is it
8:06:09realistic
8:06:10is it plausible okay
8:06:12so
8:06:14basically we're trained in statement
8:06:15analysis okay so
8:06:18what i did with your statement is i
8:06:21wrote it all out every word that you
8:06:23said okay just like everybody else that
8:06:24gave a statement
8:06:26every
8:06:27noun pronoun verb everything okay and
8:06:30people are trained to speak in a certain
8:06:32language okay
8:06:34and when they are not being truthful
8:06:37that shows up in their language
8:06:39they don't even know they're doing it
8:06:41okay
8:06:42but when we
8:06:43analyze the statement itself we know
8:06:46whether they're being truthful or not
8:06:47truthful okay
8:06:49and these days we even have software
8:06:51that assist us in that okay we're in the
8:06:53modern ages right okay so we have
8:06:56computer programs and one of the ones
8:06:58that we utilize in these cases is an
8:07:01analysis program called event
8:07:03probability analysis
8:07:05okay
8:07:06and what we do is we feed everything
8:07:08into the computer basically the computer
8:07:11i type it out and we feed it in and it
8:07:14takes you scan it in actually and it
8:07:16takes a copy of everything that's been
8:07:18said and it analyzes
8:07:21what a person has said
8:07:23okay
8:07:24and based on what they say
8:07:27it will tell us
8:07:28where the areas of deception are
8:07:31okay
8:07:32when something's missing
8:07:34that they're not telling us okay areas
8:07:36of concern
8:07:38and
8:07:39areas that are flat out not truthful
8:07:42okay
8:07:43and areas that they you come back with a
8:07:46result that says not plausible okay
8:07:49because what it is is this software
8:07:51analyzes it's being entered by all
8:07:53police forces
8:07:55okay so
8:07:57it has data from thousands of cases
8:07:59right
8:08:00so
8:08:01if it gets information that's totally
8:08:03never happened before in any other case
8:08:06right
8:08:06that tells you something right because
8:08:08human beings there's only so many ways
8:08:11to do something okay and people follow
8:08:13patterns
8:08:14okay and when things go outside of a
8:08:16normal pattern
8:08:18that's a red flag right do you agree
8:08:22when things don't add up so that that's
8:08:24another
8:08:25um thing that we look into of course i
8:08:28have to go over all the forensics
8:08:31of a case
8:08:32okay
8:08:33because that's evidence
8:08:35okay and you're already aware of how
8:08:37many days the police were at your house
8:08:39right
8:08:43yeah
8:08:44days on on days on days
8:08:47and when they were there okay they're
8:08:49not just there
8:08:50i'm taking a couple pictures or anything
8:08:52okay
8:08:53they're going over that house with a
8:08:55fine-tooth comb
8:08:57okay they're going over every hair fiber
8:09:00every
8:09:01skin cell
8:09:03every bit of blood
8:09:04because essentially you know what dna is
8:09:06right
8:09:08okay
8:09:09basically a person cannot go in or out
8:09:13of a anywhere without leaving a part of
8:09:16themselves behind right
8:09:18you understand that do you watch csi at
8:09:20all
8:09:20a little bit a little bit but you're
8:09:23it tells you that it would be like if
8:09:25you and i walked out of this room right
8:09:26now right
8:09:27and we brought in our forensics experts
8:09:30right
8:09:31and what they would do is they would
8:09:32collect any hair any fibers
8:09:36any skin cells any dna that was in this
8:09:38room okay
8:09:39and what they could do with that is
8:09:41simply say at the end of the day they
8:09:43would say you know what
8:09:45jennifer pam was in that room and bill
8:09:47gates was in that room okay
8:09:49it's conclusive that
8:09:52we can't go in and out without leaving
8:09:54parts of ourselves behind
8:09:56you understand that right
8:09:58okay so obviously the forensic in this
8:10:02case
8:10:03uh will tell us a lot of information
8:10:06okay who was in what room who wasn't in
8:10:08what room okay
8:10:10what you have to remember is
8:10:12what is there and what is not there are
8:10:14just as important
8:10:16okay so if somebody was said to be in a
8:10:20certain room
8:10:22and our experts went through there and
8:10:24there were no fibers from that person
8:10:27what would that tell you
8:10:30yeah they weren't there
8:10:32okay
8:10:33um so
8:10:35in my work i'm looking for what's there
8:10:37but also what's not there it's just as
8:10:40important and you know what
8:10:42a lot of times it's even more important
8:10:44okay because it goes to verifying what
8:10:47the person
8:10:48what the witnesses have told me okay or
8:10:51what they haven't told them oh
8:10:53right
8:10:54okay so that that's another thing that
8:10:56uh of course that's done at every scene
8:11:00okay the other thing that we do is
8:11:02obviously we talk to a lot of people and
8:11:04you already know we've done that because
8:11:06we've talked to a lot of your friends
8:11:07and people that you know right
8:11:11so you're well aware that we don't leave
8:11:12any rock unturned
8:11:14okay
8:11:15and so we go out and do that uh you
8:11:18already know
8:11:19um
8:11:20that we've contacted these people
8:11:22because that's part of what we do in
8:11:23every investigation
8:11:25okay every interview is important every
8:11:27person that may have any knowledge at
8:11:29all is important right
8:11:32we also talk to people that have talked
8:11:34to the witnesses okay so
8:11:36if we've interviewed you for instance
8:11:39and then we go and interview that person
8:11:42that's talked to you
8:11:44they will tell us what you said
8:11:46okay and if there's odd things in what
8:11:49you've told them or they don't make
8:11:50sense of course we find that out because
8:11:53they tell us right and so that's another
8:11:55way we can
8:11:57determine if somebody's being truthful
8:11:59they tell someone else something
8:12:00different than what they've told
8:12:03us ourselves
8:12:04or something that's in conflict with
8:12:06that right
8:12:08so that's another thing that we do
8:12:10um
8:12:11the other thing we do is we have to
8:12:13reach out to what we call modern
8:12:15technology okay so there's some of the
8:12:17things that we utilize as satellite
8:12:20okay
8:12:20now are you do you know what satellite
8:12:22can do
8:12:24okay do you watch any of these uh when
8:12:27uh these war programs on tv where they
8:12:30do bombings and stuff
8:12:32have you ever seen any of that or when
8:12:34uh
8:12:35the iraq war was on you ever see it in
8:12:37the news clips where you can see the
8:12:39satellite honing in on buildings
8:12:42okay
8:12:43so
8:12:43we can go back and obtain satellite
8:12:46information okay
8:12:47and essentially the satellite's a
8:12:4924-hour video that's going on
8:12:52uh you know 24 hours a day
8:12:55seven days a week right it's recording
8:12:57information
8:12:59okay and that's how
8:13:00the military uses it in you know for
8:13:03precision bombing and everything else
8:13:05because they're able to find out where
8:13:07bombs are inside buildings and hone in
8:13:10on that through satellites and heat
8:13:11seeking
8:13:12uh
8:13:14apparatuses that tell you what's going
8:13:16on inside right okay so we're able to go
8:13:18back uh and review that
8:13:21okay
8:13:22and so we would have to obtain uh
8:13:25that data for a specific address uh get
8:13:28it for the dates and time that we're
8:13:29concerned with okay and basically if
8:13:33people are moving around in a house um
8:13:36it's like an x-ray okay
8:13:38and
8:13:39basically we're able to tell you know
8:13:41are those movements are those actions
8:13:44that number of people consistent with
8:13:45the story that we've been told
8:13:47um
8:13:48are the people in the positions that the
8:13:51witnesses are telling us they were in
8:13:53uh or are they different okay and if
8:13:56they're different why are they different
8:13:57but what our question becomes right
8:14:00so that's a
8:14:02that's another uh thing that we do
8:14:04obviously just to go back to forensics
8:14:06for a minute what we're doing is stuff
8:14:08like um in this case that door knob is
8:14:11very important that door lock okay and
8:14:14so we're looking for who was the last
8:14:16one
8:14:17that actually
8:14:18uh touched that doorknob
8:14:20or door lock right okay um did somebody
8:14:25lock it last or did somebody
8:14:28unlock it okay so we would see
8:14:31uh you would get like fingerprints of
8:14:33one person locking and then overlapped
8:14:34by the person that unlocked it that type
8:14:36of thing
8:14:38and
8:14:40[Music]
8:14:41again it would just be information that
8:14:43would go
8:14:44to determining what happened on in that
8:14:46house right
8:14:47and uh from there the other thing of
8:14:50course
8:14:51um
8:14:52in any case you know about crime
8:14:54stoppers right have you heard of crime
8:14:56stoppers before yeah
8:14:59yeah okay when you get a case like this
8:15:02okay people want to help
8:15:04okay
8:15:04it's in the papers it's everywhere okay
8:15:07so people actually end up coming to us
8:15:09to help us out with the case okay
8:15:12now
8:15:13in a case like this we're actually very
8:15:15fortunate because the more people that
8:15:17are involved in a crime the more
8:15:19information we always get okay if a
8:15:22person goes out and commits a crime
8:15:24themselves who knows about it
8:15:30just themselves for sure and maybe
8:15:32anybody they tell
8:15:33right
8:15:34in a case where they
8:15:36actually is
8:15:38multiple people involved so
8:15:40in this case three people inside the
8:15:42house and a number of other people
8:15:44involved on the peripheral
8:15:46right
8:15:48each of them knows okay so now we're
8:15:50getting into a higher number of people
8:15:52knowing what happened and you know what
8:15:54somebody always tells somebody else
8:15:57okay
8:15:58and so that doubles
8:16:00the number of people that know
8:16:02okay
8:16:03and then
8:16:04over drinks and everything else that
8:16:05person tells another person
8:16:08and before we know it a ton of people
8:16:10actually know what happened that night
8:16:12okay
8:16:13and suddenly we get people calling in
8:16:15because what you know why
8:16:17they want to help
8:16:18okay there's other people that just want
8:16:21the money they know what happened
8:16:23they've heard about it they've heard it
8:16:25through a friend
8:16:26okay
8:16:28in all the years that i've been policing
8:16:31you don't know how many people actually
8:16:33called in on their own friends
8:16:35it happens all the time
8:16:37okay
8:16:38because they want that money
8:16:40okay they get greedy
8:16:42so we get calls all the time from people
8:16:45that are involved we also get people
8:16:47that are actually involved in the crime
8:16:49telling about other people that were
8:16:50involved in the crime
8:16:52and they're actually going to collect
8:16:53money
8:16:54on a case
8:16:57that they were involved in
8:16:59that you hear what i'm saying
8:17:01okay
8:17:02and
8:17:03and so at the end of the day
8:17:06okay
8:17:07there's so many resources available to
8:17:09me
8:17:10um
8:17:11that at the end of the day
8:17:13i'm going to know if a person's telling
8:17:15me the truth
8:17:17or not
8:17:18okay
8:17:18whether they and it may not be to me
8:17:20because i'm analyzing also
8:17:23every statement they made to the police
8:17:25okay
8:17:26and
8:17:27the other things that we do is obviously
8:17:29we get
8:17:30forensic sciences
8:17:32and profiling people involved to
8:17:34determine the events of these things
8:17:37okay
8:17:38now
8:17:39i can tell you
8:17:41that nothing surprises me
8:17:43in this job
8:17:45okay
8:17:46i am well aware
8:17:48that
8:17:49anybody on this earth is capable of
8:17:52making a mistake
8:17:54okay
8:17:55i don't care who they are i don't care
8:17:58if they're a priest
8:18:00i don't care if their school teacher i
8:18:02don't care
8:18:04what the situation is
8:18:06given
8:18:07a certain set of circumstances
8:18:10everyone has the capability jennifer
8:18:12making mistakes
8:18:14doing
8:18:16the wrong thing
8:18:17okay
8:18:18um
8:18:19the key though when i talk to people is
8:18:23when they made a mistake
8:18:24okay that's one thing right
8:18:27the key is to not keep making the same
8:18:30mistake
8:18:31okay
8:18:33and to get that information out and get
8:18:35it off your chest
8:18:38okay you understand what i'm saying
8:18:41okay
8:18:42so at the end of the day from this case
8:18:45and i can tell you i've spent
8:18:48literally a week on this case going over
8:18:50information after information
8:18:52accessing all these sources speaking to
8:18:54every other expert on the case
8:18:57okay
8:18:59and at this point jennifer
8:19:02i know that you've not been truthful
8:19:04with the police
8:19:06okay you've
8:19:09not told us everything that you know
8:19:12purposely okay
8:19:14and that you've left information out
8:19:17okay
8:19:18there's a number of inconsistencies
8:19:21in what you've told the police
8:19:24okay one of the things you have to
8:19:26remember
8:19:27is that your dad
8:19:28was there
8:19:30okay
8:19:32and your dad had a front row seat to all
8:19:34of this
8:19:36okay
8:19:37and
8:19:38your dad's a very smart man
8:19:41okay
8:19:42and he has a very clear perception of
8:19:44what's going on
8:19:46and he tells a very truthful story
8:19:49because i've gone through this whole
8:19:50process with him
8:19:51okay i've had to do the same thing and i
8:19:53know he's being truthful
8:19:56okay
8:19:57the problem
8:19:59is that your story
8:20:01what you're telling is not truthful
8:20:04okay and we have to clear this up
8:20:07okay
8:20:09your
8:20:11rendition of what happened
8:20:14one
8:20:15a lot of events you say that happened
8:20:17never did
8:20:18okay a lot of things that you told the
8:20:20police happen never happened okay
8:20:24they never happened in the sequence that
8:20:25you've told
8:20:26okay
8:20:28you've got to remember that your dad was
8:20:30there okay
8:20:31that's just one part of it there's lots
8:20:33of other things that tell me that you've
8:20:34not been truthful
8:20:36all this analysis that i've been doing
8:20:38but
8:20:38on top of it
8:20:41that yours doesn't match at all
8:20:44except for very few factors that you've
8:20:46told truth but you haven't told all the
8:20:48truth we're getting into where
8:20:50you know
8:20:52you've spent
8:20:53a considerable amount of time in the
8:20:55last seven years telling half truths
8:20:58okay and i can understand why okay
8:21:01you've had a tough life okay
8:21:03what's happened to you to me equates to
8:21:06abuse
8:21:08okay
8:21:09and
8:21:11all the stresses that you've had and
8:21:12forced to lie i can understand why you
8:21:14did it
8:21:15okay but you're in another situation
8:21:17here where you're under another
8:21:19tremendous amount of stress
8:21:21okay
8:21:22and that stress is brought on by those
8:21:24same factors that brought on stress
8:21:26before okay the number one thing that
8:21:29brings on stress to you is when you're
8:21:31not truthful
8:21:33right
8:21:34that hurts you right
8:21:37okay
8:21:38and it doesn't feel good inside does it
8:21:41it breaks down the person that you are
8:21:44because at the end of the day you're a
8:21:46good person i know that you've got
8:21:48a good heart
8:21:50okay
8:21:51in this case though you've made mistakes
8:21:54okay
8:21:55and you're involved in this i know that
8:21:58okay there's no question about it
8:22:00okay the only question right now is
8:22:04are you going to keep making mistakes
8:22:07are you going to go on the route that
8:22:08you've gone on over the years and try to
8:22:10pretend that
8:22:11things happen that never happened
8:22:14okay are you gonna
8:22:15not face reality here
8:22:17okay
8:22:19you were not
8:22:20truthful to the police in this case
8:22:23we know that you're involved we've done
8:22:25our homework okay
8:22:27we have to resolve that now here today
8:22:30okay
8:22:31i need to know
8:22:33from you
8:22:34what really happened
8:22:36okay and i mean
8:22:38who else is involved in this okay
8:22:41because there's no doubt jennifer that
8:22:43you are okay we know that we're past
8:22:45that
8:22:46okay there's no question about it at all
8:22:49okay
8:22:50and i know why this has happened okay
8:22:53you have spent your whole life trying to
8:22:56live up to expectations that you can't
8:22:58mate
8:22:59okay and that stressed the hell out of
8:23:00you
8:23:02you're a 24 year old woman being treated
8:23:04like a 15 year old okay
8:23:07what you've never done anything that
8:23:09terrible in your life but you're
8:23:11being treated like you have
8:23:14you're not being treated like the adult
8:23:16that you are yes you made some mistakes
8:23:18big deal
8:23:19they're not the first person that has
8:23:21gone out and not told their parents that
8:23:23they're dating a guy because in your
8:23:25culture they don't accept it i
8:23:27understand that i've talked to people
8:23:29in here that have kept that secret for
8:23:31their whole life
8:23:33from their parents
8:23:34okay so that's not abnormal but that
8:23:36puts a lot of stress on you
8:23:38right
8:23:38that's not easy for you is it
8:23:41no
8:23:43now
8:23:44what we need to get down to here today
8:23:47jen is what really
8:23:49happened
8:23:53you need to tell me
8:23:55what went on
8:23:57because you know who was in that house
8:24:00that night
8:24:01you do jen there's no question about
8:24:03that okay
8:24:05there's no question about it okay
8:24:09you have actually given an improper
8:24:11description of the person you were
8:24:12dealing with
8:24:14upstairs number one
8:24:17you falsified the whole description of
8:24:19that person we know that
8:24:21okay we know that
8:24:23okay
8:24:24he yes you did jen okay you did you made
8:24:28a mistake here and we got to get to the
8:24:31bottom of that
8:24:33that person did not exist in that house
8:24:35that night i know that
8:24:37okay we've done our homework
8:24:39okay
8:24:40you heard on the news that there was
8:24:42video right
8:24:43okay
8:24:45it wasn't three black guys that left
8:24:47that house you know that and i know that
8:24:49okay
8:24:51so we need to get down to why you have
8:24:53purposely told us
8:24:55a false description
8:24:57of number one
8:24:59okay
8:25:00no jen
8:25:02it's totally wrong
8:25:04and it was done on purpose
8:25:06okay
8:25:07to mislead us okay
8:25:09because you're involved in this okay you
8:25:12cannot deny that okay you cannot deny
8:25:14that we know now okay so let's just get
8:25:18it out on the table you've made a
8:25:19mistake i know that okay but you can't
8:25:22live with this any longer than this your
8:25:25your your buddy
8:25:27nervous wreck over this thing
8:25:29this thing
8:25:31if you could take it back i know that
8:25:32you would
8:25:33if you could go back to that day and
8:25:35play this all over again it would be
8:25:37different
8:25:38okay but you need to right now
8:25:41know that
8:25:43we know that you're involved
8:25:44there's no question about that none
8:25:47whatsoever
8:25:48okay
8:25:49but what we also know is that you're a
8:25:51good person
8:25:53okay that's made a mistake here right
8:25:56you made some bad decisions okay
8:25:58and it's you know how you made the bad
8:26:01decisions that not talking
8:26:03telling your parents what's up you don't
8:26:05want to do that with us
8:26:06okay you don't want to do that with the
8:26:08police do you
8:26:10you don't want to mislead me do you no
8:26:12okay so let's not do that
8:26:15you made a mistake that night you got
8:26:17involved with the wrong people
8:26:19okay you got involved in the wrong set
8:26:22of circumstances
8:26:23okay
8:26:24but that's over with now
8:26:26we're past that
8:26:28okay we know that that happened
8:26:30okay
8:26:31but
8:26:32you know what
8:26:35in all my years of placing it doesn't
8:26:37matter what goes wrong with people
8:26:40it's never too late to do the right
8:26:42thing
8:26:43you know that and i know that okay
8:26:46and what you can do here today is
8:26:47actually do the right thing
8:26:49okay
8:26:50you have to do the right thing okay you
8:26:52can't go around
8:26:54continuing this okay
8:26:56remember when you said what it did to
8:26:58you when you went through those years of
8:27:00depression
8:27:02that was brought on by not being
8:27:03truthful
8:27:04living a lie
8:27:06you don't want to keep living this life
8:27:08okay everybody knows okay
8:27:11you know and you're getting the feeling
8:27:13from everybody around you that they know
8:27:15okay nobody is surprised
8:27:19okay there's nobody surprised here
8:27:21okay
8:27:22after what you've been through
8:27:25i'm surprised this didn't happen a lot
8:27:27earlier truthful
8:27:29okay you're 24 years old and you were a
8:27:32prisoner in your own house
8:27:34you had lost your own identity
8:27:37there was no jennifer anymore okay you
8:27:39were living for what somebody else
8:27:41wanted
8:27:42you weren't you you were what somebody
8:27:44else wanted you were living someone
8:27:46else's expectations okay
8:27:49and yes family is important but when
8:27:52family takes over you as a human being
8:27:55when they take your identity
8:27:58there is no more gen
8:27:59so no matter how good their intentions
8:28:01are
8:28:02no matter how much they love you
8:28:06they're taking away jen
8:28:08okay
8:28:10and you have gone through this for years
8:28:13in the middle
8:28:14of tension
8:28:16tension that got to the point that it
8:28:18makes you sick
8:28:19your stomach churns over it
8:28:22you don't wake up a day that there's not
8:28:23some issue on the table not some stress
8:28:26in your household okay
8:28:29essentially you've been told to live up
8:28:32to expectations you yourself years ago
8:28:34knew that you could not do
8:28:37okay
8:28:38they're taking away gen
8:28:41there is no gen they took jen away
8:28:44the gen that just wants to be
8:28:46a piano teacher why isn't that good
8:28:48enough
8:28:50why was that not good enough
8:28:53that was great expectations why not just
8:28:56be a lab technician why is a doctor why
8:28:58does it always have to be something
8:29:00bigger
8:29:01why can't it just be what you want
8:29:05and all that has resulted in what's
8:29:07happened
8:29:09on november 8th
8:29:12the tension built up to a point that
8:29:16you know what it's like an animal that
8:29:18gets cornered at some point
8:29:20the nicest dog
8:29:22when it's cornered bites back
8:29:25okay
8:29:26it's called self-preservation
8:29:29okay
8:29:30and in your case all that's happened
8:29:32here is self-preservation
8:29:3518 months ago jen you chose your family
8:29:38over daniel
8:29:39okay but you gave up jen in the process
8:29:43you gave up yourself to this whole thing
8:29:46there was no gen anymore
8:29:49the gen that just wanted to teach piano
8:29:53that wasn't good enough the gen
8:29:55that just wants a normal nine to five
8:29:57job
8:30:00that's not good enough
8:30:02and jen was in a state of depression
8:30:05backed into a corner
8:30:08and what it came down to
8:30:10is one thing
8:30:12self-preservation
8:30:14self-preservation
8:30:16overrules anything in life okay
8:30:19at the end of the day
8:30:21it's like your life is being choked out
8:30:23of you
8:30:24that's what's been happening for the
8:30:25last seven years
8:30:27and
8:30:28basically
8:30:30the grip on your throat on your life has
8:30:33shrunk and tightened up
8:30:35to a point
8:30:38where either you do something about it
8:30:40or it's the end of jen
8:30:43and you diminish to a point where the
8:30:45only thing you could do
8:30:47is fight back for once
8:30:50and that's what's happened here again we
8:30:52know that
8:30:54we know that and i again i'm surprised
8:30:56it took this long
8:30:59a 24 year old young woman being treated
8:31:04as a prisoner in her own home i can't
8:31:06imagine
8:31:08like the rules that they have are for 12
8:31:10year olds
8:31:12not for somebody twice that age
8:31:14yes their intentions might have been
8:31:16good but they're not realistic
8:31:19they're not dan were they
8:31:22again
8:31:24their expectations weren't realistic
8:31:26were they
8:31:28you couldn't live up to them could you
8:31:31you tried to
8:31:34right
8:31:36am i right
8:31:39and finally you had to bite back right
8:31:43you had no other choice you felt like
8:31:45you had no other options
8:31:47you thought of everything else including
8:31:49killing yourself
8:31:52to make this change right
8:31:55right
8:31:58i'm right aren't i
8:32:00ken
8:32:05right
8:32:08it's okay
8:32:10we understand let's talk about it
8:32:14let's get it out in the open gem
8:32:16that's all this is about understanding
8:32:19we know that you're involved we know
8:32:21what you did
8:32:26but you can't live like this
8:32:31you got to get it off your chest
8:32:35you've been so stressed out from the
8:32:37moment this happened
8:32:42you knew that it was going to happen
8:32:44that night
8:32:46before it happened
8:32:50and why you froze on your bed there is
8:32:52because reality had set in
8:32:54the plan was in motion
8:32:58there was no turning back
8:33:02and i know right now you wish you could
8:33:03turn it back right
8:33:06you wish you could go back before that
8:33:08night and stop this right
8:33:11right jen
8:33:15right
8:33:22what happened
8:33:31what happened
8:33:42okay it happened yes
8:33:44the guys came in
8:33:46okay but you were involved that's what
8:33:47the difference is here okay
8:33:50right
8:33:52a lot of what you said happened but a
8:33:54lot of it that you said didn't happen
8:33:56okay
8:33:59okay but it's what you're not saying
8:34:01that's important here
8:34:03you were part of setting this plan in
8:34:06motion
8:34:07right
8:34:09you were behind this
8:34:11right
8:34:13you have to get it off your chest and
8:34:15it's killing you
8:34:17get it off your chest and we're going to
8:34:18talk it out here
8:34:20we're going to understand and we're
8:34:21going to get this pressure off you
8:34:23because that's what you need right now
8:34:27do the right thing now again we already
8:34:29know you're not going to surprise me
8:34:31here okay i already know what the answer
8:34:33is
8:34:36i can't let i can't stand to see you go
8:34:38through this any longer
8:34:41you've been a physical wreck because you
8:34:43know that you haven't been truthful with
8:34:44us
8:34:45a lot of things that you said are true
8:34:47but there's so many more that aren't and
8:34:48you're leaving so much information
8:34:51we know that you have to sit there and
8:34:53ask yourself yes he knows
8:34:56bill knows
8:34:57everyone knows
8:35:01but what you have to do now is get the
8:35:03strength in you to tell us
8:35:06why it happened
8:35:09i have some pretty good reasons there
8:35:10why it happened like
8:35:12i to me it was a form of abuse here
8:35:17because you can't do that to a person
8:35:19you can't this is canada
8:35:22we're in the 21st century here
8:35:25you cannot take everything out of a
8:35:28person
8:35:29you can have expectations for your kids
8:35:31but you can't expect them to do
8:35:33everything the way you want
8:35:35okay
8:35:36it's just like your dad said about it
8:35:38fixing everybody else's home but not
8:35:40fixing his own
8:35:41okay it's the same with you
8:35:43okay
8:35:45he was trying to make a future for you
8:35:47bigger than it should have been
8:35:49and in the process of his love for you
8:35:52he made the mistake of actually pushing
8:35:54you away
8:36:01right
8:36:03all his good intentions
8:36:06what happened
8:36:08all his good intentions went the other
8:36:10way because he made too high of
8:36:12expectations on a young woman
8:36:15we know that jen
8:36:18you know that
8:36:20and now is the time to get it out in the
8:36:22open here
8:36:25right
8:36:26you know the importance of telling the
8:36:28truth when it really counts
8:36:30and you know what it does to you as a as
8:36:32a person when you have to deny things
8:36:34that you know are true
8:36:38right
8:36:41it doesn't feel good does it
8:36:43can
8:36:45it doesn't feel good to have secrets
8:36:46does it
8:36:48no
8:36:49you have to let me know
8:36:51what happened here
8:36:53okay
8:36:55okay but you were involved
8:36:58right
8:36:59that's the part we need
8:37:02okay we need to hear that from you
8:37:04because we know you were
8:37:08we're going to talk this out and figure
8:37:09out what happened
8:37:13i'm going to make it easy on you
8:37:17all you have to do is tell me
8:37:19that you were involved right
8:37:23i'm right aren't they
8:37:25you know what
8:37:27we know it
8:37:29it's plain as day
8:37:32i'm 100 percent
8:37:33correct here
8:37:35i wouldn't be sitting here saying this
8:37:37if it wasn't jen
8:37:39okay
8:37:45but we have to get through this you have
8:37:48to get through it
8:37:52yes people came into your house that
8:37:54night yes that part's true
8:37:57the descriptions you've given
8:38:00you've held back
8:38:01you haven't been straight forward okay i
8:38:03know that okay
8:38:06no you haven't okay we know that okay
8:38:07let's get it out on the table here jen
8:38:09okay
8:38:11it's not true
8:38:13okay
8:38:14you were involved in this
8:38:17right
8:38:19you knew before that night that this was
8:38:21going to happen
8:38:23i'm going to make that easy on you
8:38:24that's a true statement right
8:38:28you knew before that night that they
8:38:29were coming
8:38:31right
8:38:36that's all i need jim
8:38:38let's get the truth out here now
8:38:41you knew before they came that they were
8:38:43coming right
8:38:46right
8:38:53be honest with me jim
8:38:58give me that
8:39:04all right
8:39:06you knew before they got there that they
8:39:08were coming
8:39:10right
8:39:13now the good thing is here that you
8:39:14didn't actually shoot anybody
8:39:17that's a positive in this situation
8:39:20because you couldn't do that
8:39:23you're not that type of person
8:39:25right
8:39:27and a lot of people do do that
8:39:30a lot of kids make the mistake of going
8:39:32out and
8:39:33doing it themselves okay you couldn't do
8:39:36that i know that
8:39:41i know that and that's a good thing
8:39:48but you did make a mistake because you
8:39:51got involved in it
8:39:55jennifer you don't need to live with
8:39:56this pain anymore
8:39:58let it in
8:40:05look at me jen
8:40:08let's be honest with each other
8:40:11i've been nothing but honest with you
8:40:12here today and i hope people do the same
8:40:14with me
8:40:17i'm here to listen
8:40:26ken
8:40:29it's not worth it anymore
8:40:32it's hurting
8:40:34you i need to know the details i can't
8:40:37even say
8:40:41but i can tell you one thing is that we
8:40:43already know so
8:40:45you can't change that
8:40:51i know you did
8:40:54but it got too far ahead of you right
8:40:57you didn't see you didn't think this far
8:40:59ahead did you
8:41:04once they started once they came in you
8:41:06couldn't stop it could you
8:41:08could you
8:41:11jen
8:41:15hmm
8:41:17i know
8:41:18why didn't they stop for you
8:41:23i don't know who they were
8:41:26but you were part of the planning right
8:41:30you have to tell me that part and then
8:41:31we're going to work through it together
8:41:35do you know what i'm saying
8:41:37you didn't want this you wanted to stop
8:41:39it you have to prove that to me now
8:41:41because at the end of the day
8:41:44we have to stop this from happening to
8:41:45someone else
8:41:47right
8:41:50what's happening
8:41:52jen
8:41:53we're going to have to deal with it one
8:41:54step at the time okay
8:41:56i'm going to be honest with you
8:41:58i need to know what you did
8:42:05and then you and i are going to work
8:42:06through this together
8:42:07because the most important part of this
8:42:10whole thing is
8:42:11that we do the right thing for your mom
8:42:14right
8:42:16i am her voice right now
8:42:19i'm working for your mom that's my job
8:42:23and i have to get to the bottom of this
8:42:24for your mom
8:42:27but i need you with me on it
8:42:30okay
8:42:32i want you
8:42:33to step back for a minute
8:42:36and think what would your mom want you
8:42:38to do right now
8:42:42and i know she's a good woman and she's
8:42:44taught you all your life that jennifer
8:42:48no matter how bad it gets
8:42:52no matter what you've done wrong you can
8:42:53come to me
8:42:54and tell me
8:42:56and i'll understand right
8:43:04and you need to talk to me
8:43:07okay but let's get back to how they got
8:43:10there why they got there okay
8:43:14because we know that you helped get this
8:43:16thing in order
8:43:17right
8:43:19that's what we need to start with then
8:43:21we're going to work through the case
8:43:23okay
8:43:24but we gotta start
8:43:26what happens
8:43:28well i don't know at this point
8:43:30okay because i don't know
8:43:32what you're gonna tell me other than
8:43:33that you were involved but i need to
8:43:35hear it
8:43:39okay
8:43:40i can tell you one thing i'm gonna sit
8:43:42here as long as it takes
8:43:44for you to get this off your chest okay
8:43:51you know what i mean
8:43:52let's do it
8:43:54what then
8:43:57okay you need to tell me
8:44:00how you got involved in this
8:44:03we know that jen
8:44:07we need to talk about that
8:44:10okay
8:44:13you wanted it to stop then you have to
8:44:14stop this right now
8:44:17okay because this needs to stop you
8:44:19can't go around like this anymore hiding
8:44:23secrets from your own family they know
8:44:26jen they know they're not going to be
8:44:28surprised
8:44:31what they're looking for you to do right
8:44:33now is to do the right thing
8:44:36that's what i'm looking for that's what
8:44:38you're looking for
8:44:39right
8:44:42you know what what i tell people is just
8:44:44tell the truth
8:44:46okay and we're gonna sit down here
8:44:49we're gonna get to the bottom of it okay
8:44:52together
8:44:54okay
8:45:01ken
8:45:04what happened
8:45:10how did it start
8:45:12i'm talking before that day how did it
8:45:14start before that day
8:45:17how did this thing get in motion
8:45:20there was a plan ahead of time and i
8:45:22want to know about the plan
8:45:26you can do that
8:45:28okay
8:45:30be strong jen
8:45:36again
8:45:38be strong here
8:45:42what you have to remember is that we're
8:45:44not offside here
8:45:46okay we know already that it happened
8:45:49there's absolutely no doubt that you
8:45:51were involved with us or we wouldn't be
8:45:53sitting here right now
8:45:55you've been waiting and wondering when
8:45:57the police were going to ask you or tell
8:45:59you this
8:46:01you thought it was going to happen the
8:46:02last time you were here
8:46:04right
8:46:10stay with me again
8:46:12let's get through this
8:46:19if you're sorry you're out now are you
8:46:21not
8:46:23are you sorry for what happened
8:46:27starting
8:46:30you wish you could take it back
8:46:33again
8:46:36okay that's good to hear
8:46:38that's so positive
8:46:44you wish it didn't happen right
8:46:49that night you wish you'd never got this
8:46:51plan in motion right
8:46:54right
8:46:58you wish you never told anybody to do
8:47:00this right
8:47:04again
8:47:10you gotta get it off your chest
8:47:36and i'm looking for the jennifer that
8:47:38knows the right wrong
8:47:40are you there
8:47:43yes okay sit up and let's talk
8:47:48okay i know
8:47:50this has been hell for you
8:47:52you have gone through hell for years
8:47:56all you were looking for is a break
8:47:59a chance to be on your own
8:48:02to make your own decisions to be gen
8:48:05right that's all you were looking for
8:48:08right
8:48:10right
8:48:13you felt cornered you felt like you
8:48:15didn't have any other options
8:48:17right
8:48:21again
8:48:23you didn't have another option did you
8:48:25at the time you felt like this was the
8:48:27only thing you could do
8:48:32but once it started that night you wish
8:48:34you could have stopped it so much
8:48:36right
8:48:39again
8:48:43you wish you could have stopped it
8:48:55how did it start ken
8:49:04hey
8:49:05look at me
8:49:06how did it start
8:49:14what was your plan
8:49:18let's just go through the plan that you
8:49:19had okay
8:49:21let's start there
8:49:24we know that you weren't the one that
8:49:26pulled the trigger we know that
8:49:29and we know that you would if you could
8:49:30have stopped this whole thing we know
8:49:32that
8:49:35but we also know that you were involved
8:49:37from the start
8:49:39okay
8:49:44and what this all was
8:49:47was a latch this effort to live
8:49:50your own life
8:49:51to be your own person
8:49:53to make your own decisions
8:49:56right
8:49:59what happened to anybody in the same
8:50:00circumstances
8:50:04now i do a lot of reading
8:50:09and over 300 kids in
8:50:11north america every year
8:50:15are involved
8:50:20in the parents deaths okay
8:50:26and when
8:50:27we look into those cases
8:50:29there's always a common factor
8:50:33that those kids
8:50:35have had to live up to expectations that
8:50:38weren't reasonable
8:50:40that they weren't being treated
8:50:43the way a human being should be treated
8:50:49the host rules were just so out of whack
8:50:53and you know that because look at all
8:50:55your friends
8:50:57look at all the people around you does
8:50:59anyone else have a curfew
8:51:01for nine o'clock at 24 years of age
8:51:07jen
8:51:09do you know anybody else with those
8:51:10expectations
8:51:12yes or no
8:51:16yes or no
8:51:18do you know anyone that has
8:51:22to be under the pressure that you're
8:51:23under
8:51:26no
8:51:28i myself don't know of anybody and i
8:51:30investigate these all the time i've
8:51:32never seen
8:51:33someone under 24 years of age that has
8:51:36to have gone through what you've gone
8:51:37through
8:51:40the taking of the love of her life out
8:51:43of her life
8:51:45the decision to make our own decisions
8:51:53you had no choice here again i know that
8:52:00and anybody else in your situation would
8:52:02have done the exact same thing
8:52:04the only thing different is i would say
8:52:06that they'd have done it a lot earlier
8:52:09they would have looked for a way out
8:52:12you've tried everything
8:52:15you've told them
8:52:17and no one listened
8:52:20they didn't listen jeff
8:52:26now
8:52:30i want you to ask i want you to answer
8:52:32a simple question for me okay can you do
8:52:34that
8:52:35look at me for a sec here
8:52:37look at me for a second
8:52:39i have a simple question for you
8:52:45i just want
8:52:46to hear
8:52:48yes
8:52:50okay
8:52:54you knew this was going to happen right
8:52:58again
8:53:05jennifer
8:53:10let's work through this together okay
8:53:20okay
8:53:21you made a mistake
8:53:24you made a mistake
8:53:27that you can't change
8:53:30but you can change the fact that you're
8:53:32not going to keep making these mistakes
8:53:36right
8:53:37you don't want to keep making these
8:53:38mistakes do you ken
8:53:41you want to be a part of the solution
8:53:43not the problem
8:53:45you want to be a part of the solution
8:53:47here
8:53:50jen
8:53:52okay
8:53:57when did you first start planning this
8:54:03when did you first plan this
8:54:07just give me a date
8:54:18yeah
8:54:20when did you first start planning this
8:54:28when was the final straw what was the
8:54:30final straw
8:54:33that's what this is all about
8:54:42what was the final thing that did it
8:54:47hmm
8:54:59ken
8:55:00you want to be a good person here
8:55:04okay
8:55:05and you know when a good person makes a
8:55:07mistake
8:55:09they have to face that mistake right
8:55:13right
8:55:17what do you think should happen i don't
8:55:19know
8:55:20what would you like to see happen in
8:55:22this case
8:55:27what's that justice for you okay
8:55:30so
8:55:32to get that justice
8:55:35we have to know the whole story
8:55:38right
8:55:43well one
8:55:44thing that you're going to be jen again
8:55:49right
8:55:52that i can promise you you're going to
8:55:53be
8:55:54a person making decisions for jim
8:56:06you're going to prove to people that you
8:56:08know what the right thing to do is
8:56:10that's what is going to happen
8:56:14you're gonna have the chance to explain
8:56:15to me
8:56:19why this got out of hand
8:56:22you know what i mean
8:56:24but that's where we have to start i
8:56:25can't make any promises to you
8:56:28okay
8:56:29you know that
8:56:31but i can promise i'm gonna sit here and
8:56:33listen
8:56:34and we're gonna get justice for your mom
8:56:37that's what i can promise you
8:56:40we're gonna get justice for your moment
8:56:44i want to work together with you to get
8:56:46it though
8:56:47that's the only way
8:56:49right
8:56:52you can understand that
8:56:54we have to work together in our end we
8:56:56can't be on opposite sides here
8:56:59there's going to be justice for your
8:57:01for your mom
8:57:02it has to be a partnership
8:57:08you and i have to work together
8:57:11and we'll get that
8:57:14okay
8:57:17so how did this start
8:57:30again
8:57:35doing for your
8:57:37that's all this is about
8:57:40i've watched you
8:57:41and all these statements
8:57:45okay
8:57:47and
8:57:49you know i know what the truth is and i
8:57:51know that you loved your mother and i
8:57:53told everybody that
8:57:55i said the worst thing about this whole
8:57:56thing is that poor girl loved her mom
8:58:00but she
8:58:01got involved over her head
8:58:06and every word you heard from your mom
8:58:07that affected you i know
8:58:10this is the whole
8:58:11worst thing about this whole thing
8:58:16you give anything just to talk to her
8:58:18one more time
8:58:19right
8:58:22but she needs to understand
8:58:25what happened what went wrong here
8:58:30okay
8:58:31so i want you to pretend that i am your
8:58:33mom
8:58:36and get it off your chest
8:58:39i want you to think of you telling your
8:58:41mom what went wrong
8:58:46okay
8:58:48and then we're going to get justice for
8:58:50a moment
8:58:52are we going to do it together
8:58:54okay
8:58:59again can we work together can you and i
8:59:02work together on this
8:59:06okay let's
8:59:09this is a plan that went wrong okay you
8:59:11had a plan you have to tell me about
8:59:13that plan
8:59:15then we're gonna work through the rest
8:59:16of it okay
8:59:18so we have to start with you
8:59:21okay because you got those people there
8:59:24okay you set this in motion okay we have
8:59:27to know how that happened
8:59:29and we're gonna figure out together okay
8:59:33all right
8:59:36that's what your mom wants right now
8:59:37she's watching us here
8:59:39she's wondering is jen going to make the
8:59:41right decision here again after all of
8:59:45this gonna come out on top doing the
8:59:47right thing
8:59:48is she going to be truthful now because
8:59:51really all these other things that
8:59:53you've done in your life
8:59:54you know what
8:59:56everybody's lying to their parents
8:59:59okay that's just life
9:00:01okay i have a daughter too and she's
9:00:04lied to me
9:00:07and it hurts as a parent but at the end
9:00:09of the day what do we want our kids to
9:00:10do
9:00:12we don't mind so much if they make a
9:00:14mistake
9:00:15but we don't want them to keep making
9:00:17the mistakes right
9:00:19and
9:00:20that's what it's all about that's
9:00:22someday you're going to be a parent and
9:00:24you're going to want the same thing for
9:00:25your kids
9:00:27right
9:00:29and you want to be able to say to a kid
9:00:31honestly that no matter what
9:00:34you can tell me
9:00:38right now your mom was sitting with me
9:00:40here
9:00:43that's all she would expect is that you
9:00:44tell
9:00:46bill
9:00:47what went wrong here
9:00:50so that there can be justice
9:00:53okay
9:00:55it goes beyond just yourself here okay
9:00:59we have to think of your mom
9:01:02okay
9:01:04she's the most important there's really
9:01:06nothing else
9:01:07for me that's more important i'm her
9:01:09voice here today
9:01:11that's who i work for
9:01:13okay
9:01:14do you know what i'm saying
9:01:16as a police officer i have to work for
9:01:18the people that don't have a voice
9:01:19anymore
9:01:22i have to sit
9:01:24and figure out what went wrong in every
9:01:26case
9:01:28in order that justice can get done
9:01:31and that's what you want right
9:01:34because we both want the same thing ken
9:01:38right
9:01:40okay where did this start
9:01:43take your time
9:01:45i want to talk about what happened
9:01:47before that night it even came
9:01:49that's what we need to talk about okay
9:01:55what happened before that night
9:02:01i'm with you here to hear
9:02:04we're gonna figure it out together okay
9:02:07what happened
9:02:13okay
9:02:26be strong
9:02:29be strong for mom
9:02:53i'm here for you jenna
9:02:55i'm here for your mom
9:03:04well you have to tell it's one of those
9:03:06situations you know what we know that
9:03:08what you did
9:03:09okay
9:03:10but you have to be able to explain to me
9:03:13what happened okay i can't
9:03:15tell you what's exactly going to happen
9:03:17to you
9:03:18okay
9:03:19it's like
9:03:20telling you something without knowing
9:03:22the facts right
9:03:23okay
9:03:24at this point i know 100 that you were
9:03:27involved
9:03:28and this was planned out ahead time okay
9:03:33but you need to tell me where things
9:03:35went with this
9:03:36okay
9:03:39it's the truth that's going to tell me
9:03:41what's gonna i can give you a better
9:03:43answer but if you don't give me that
9:03:45you know what i mean i don't want to lie
9:03:47to you here
9:03:48you know what i'm saying
9:03:54can you see what i'm saying jen
9:03:57i'm not gonna lie yet
9:04:01but i i prefer to deal with this at one
9:04:04step at a time you need to get it out
9:04:06first and then we're gonna sit down
9:04:08and we're going to discuss this so that
9:04:10justice for your mom gets done
9:04:12that's your priority isn't it
9:04:15okay
9:04:17okay okay but that's not everything okay
9:04:21you didn't you weren't straight forward
9:04:22with that okay you know that and i know
9:04:25that right
9:04:26you didn't give us everything
9:04:27you misdescribed
9:04:29you got yes jen again we're past that
9:04:32okay
9:04:33that's not
9:04:34what i remember about them like okay
9:04:38but it's impossible because
9:04:40we have another witness
9:04:42your dad was right there
9:04:43okay
9:04:44and there's no way that you could get
9:04:46those descriptions mixed up
9:04:48okay
9:04:49we know that okay so let's not go there
9:04:52let's go with what we can deal with
9:04:54okay
9:04:56what i need to deal with though is okay
9:04:59you did not
9:05:01pull the trigger right
9:05:03let's deal with what you didn't do okay
9:05:07right you weren't a part of that
9:05:09right
9:05:12that's positive to know
9:05:14okay but we need to know
9:05:16what you were involved in
9:05:18and what you weren't involved in now we
9:05:20know that you didn't
9:05:23shoot anybody that's
9:05:25positive right
9:05:27you could never do that could you
9:05:30no
9:05:33but
9:05:36before that night ever happened
9:05:40you knew it was going to happen right
9:05:42let's start there
9:05:44that's what we need to talk facts here
9:05:47okay that's
9:05:48i don't want to get into an argument
9:05:50about what happened that night because
9:05:52it happened
9:05:53okay
9:05:54right
9:05:56and you wish you could have stopped it
9:05:58is that true or not are you just saying
9:05:59that to me
9:06:06did you try to stop it that night yes
9:06:08how
9:06:10i wanted to go be with my parents i'd
9:06:12like to be with them
9:06:15okay i understand that
9:06:17okay
9:06:19but this all started off
9:06:22with the decisions that you made
9:06:24okay those guys didn't show up there to
9:06:26take your money
9:06:27okay we all know that they came there
9:06:31to do what they did
9:06:33to shoot your parents
9:06:34okay we know that
9:06:37okay and they didn't get there randomly
9:06:40okay they just didn't decide that we're
9:06:42gonna show up here tonight
9:06:44and pick this house randomly okay this
9:06:46was set in motion
9:06:49before that night okay
9:06:52and i'm asking you to be responsible
9:06:55here in your answers jim
9:07:00you couldn't stop it once it started i
9:07:02appreciate that
9:07:04okay
9:07:08right
9:07:12what i'm going to say to you is that
9:07:15before it even happened is where you
9:07:17made your bad decision right
9:07:19you got those people to come to your
9:07:21house
9:07:23the plan that you put in motion
9:07:26okay
9:07:29so that's what we have to deal with here
9:07:32okay
9:07:34now do you want justice or not for mom
9:07:38okay
9:07:39look at me then and i'm gonna get it for
9:07:41you
9:07:42so we have to do it together
9:07:45okay
9:07:47tell me
9:07:48how this started
9:07:53because that's what you haven't told us
9:07:55jen
9:07:56you left that part out
9:07:59okay that's the part i want to hear
9:08:02that's the part that's going to get us
9:08:04justice here
9:08:06okay
9:08:08and we can work through the rest of it
9:08:11you can help us with the rest of it
9:08:12after that
9:08:14you want to help us
9:08:17ken
9:08:18okay
9:08:20i'm glad to hear you say that
9:08:22okay
9:08:25so you need to tell me
9:08:27how you made this plan
9:08:34okay
9:08:36that's all that's missing here the rest
9:08:38we know what happened i'm
9:08:40i don't need you to tell me what
9:08:42happened in that house i already know
9:08:45okay
9:08:47i'm not gonna go through that
9:08:48again okay
9:08:52what happened that night was unfortunate
9:08:55okay
9:08:56that
9:08:57but
9:08:58what's happened after that to you it's
9:09:00destroyed you this whole thing
9:09:07right
9:09:13what are you going to do now jim
9:09:16to make this right
9:09:19that's what you're faced with
9:09:23and you can help us
9:09:33you just have to be brave here
9:09:36you have to be brave
9:09:38you have to actually really want justice
9:09:40for your mom
9:09:42okay then you're gonna have to show me
9:09:44you can't just say the words you gotta
9:09:46mean it
9:09:47okay
9:09:50now how did this get started
9:10:07go ahead
9:10:29what did you do that you wish you didn't
9:10:31do now
9:10:33tell me that
9:10:39what things did you do that you wish you
9:10:40didn't do
9:11:03hmm
9:11:07okay
9:11:08john did you do who you wish you didn't
9:11:11do
9:11:14that's going to help us here
9:12:46okay
9:12:56okay tell me
9:13:10so
9:13:51you're sorry
9:14:11okay
9:14:14so you're supposed to take the whole
9:14:16family out no trust me
9:14:18what went wrong
9:14:25okay so tell me how that happened then
9:14:31okay
9:14:33it was supposed to be you
9:14:36is that right
9:14:37okay how is it supposed to happen
9:14:47okay again
9:14:50what happened
9:14:54why did it change i don't know
9:14:57okay what do you know
9:15:00how come it was supposed to be you
9:15:05wouldn't be here
9:15:10okay you made mistakes but
9:15:13nothing that couldn't be corrected
9:15:15right
9:15:21okay so how did this play out then
9:15:30how did it start
9:15:35what was the plan then
9:15:42again
9:15:45you have to help me here we need that
9:15:47justice from now right
9:15:49it wasn't supposed to be mommy
9:15:51is that what you're telling me yeah
9:15:53okay
9:15:54what about your dad
9:15:59okay why was it supposed to be
9:16:02you everyone could be free from me
9:16:08okay
9:16:10so
9:16:11why did it happen this way though i
9:16:13don't know
9:16:15okay how did they get there
9:16:19you knew they were coming all right
9:16:23because you said it was supposed to be
9:16:25you right
9:16:26so what had you done ahead of time to
9:16:29make them come there was
9:16:33what did you tell them to do
9:16:40again
9:16:45let's work this out okay let's work it
9:16:46out for a moment
9:16:59why would this supposed to be you
9:17:02everyone could be free from me
9:17:05because i was disappointed in everything
9:17:08okay but why did it have to happen this
9:17:10way
9:17:21because then i tried to decide
9:17:41so then how did we get to this point
9:17:47you told these guys to come and kill you
9:17:58okay so who did you tell
9:18:06what did you tell them
9:18:10what did you want done
9:18:18okay
9:18:20so who did you get to do this then
9:18:34okay
9:18:35and
9:18:36what's his number
9:18:38i don't memorize it
9:18:41where can we find it
9:18:46and we've found the other stuff i'm
9:18:47afraid
9:18:49on the bell cell
9:18:50phone where's that phone now
9:18:53i don't know what the same credit
9:18:57okay and how did you get a hold of this
9:18:59person
9:19:04and what did you say to him
9:19:15okay i appreciate that how did it happen
9:19:18how did they get there
9:19:22what was your request
9:19:26come in
9:19:32how would they know who you were
9:19:53what did you discuss with this person
9:20:14and how much was he going to charge for
9:20:16that
9:20:21okay
9:20:26and that's what you gave him
9:20:30okay
9:20:31now the guy you spoke to on the phone's
9:20:33the guy that showed up and he gave the
9:20:35money to i don't know if that was the
9:20:36same guy
9:20:38before okay what was did he say his name
9:20:40was
9:20:50how did you get his number to make this
9:20:52call in the first place
9:21:09[Music]
9:21:10what's his
9:21:17the rick guy that's andrew's friend
9:21:20he set you up with this guy
9:21:25so when you had those meetings what did
9:21:26you ask them
9:21:28what did you tell rick you
9:21:38needed did he say
9:21:47okay
9:21:48so when did you make that call
9:22:02what did you discuss
9:22:21and
9:22:23you had to tell them what you wanted
9:22:24though
9:22:25i told that i wanted to be killed
9:22:28and did you think that was something
9:22:30crazy
9:22:31is that are you sure that couldn't do
9:22:32what i said yes
9:22:35because i don't think many people get
9:22:36that request
9:22:38do you
9:22:40no but that's what i wanted and you
9:22:42asked me over and over just to make sure
9:22:44i was sure that i was sure okay so what
9:22:47did you ask them to do then
9:22:58why did they do it when you were
9:23:04when your parents were there then
9:23:07never alone
9:23:08in the nighttime
9:23:10okay
9:23:15so that meeting you had with rick
9:23:17you told him what you wanted no i just
9:23:20said that i wanted if he knew anybody
9:23:22who could take care of
9:23:24something that i needed
9:23:25just that i wanted to be killed
9:23:28and he said what
9:23:32did he have the number with them that
9:23:33day yes
9:23:35okay
9:23:36and that was the first meeting
9:23:42okay what happened with the first
9:23:44meeting
9:23:50when you had the first meeting with them
9:23:52why did you have the first meeting
9:23:55like i said he was a roommate or a
9:23:56friend of mine
9:23:58and that they were having problems with
9:23:59rent
9:24:10okay so
9:24:12you phone them up and have another
9:24:13meeting
9:24:14is that the meeting that someone saw you
9:24:17at
9:24:19and who was it that saw you there
9:24:22i don't know my uncle told me that
9:24:25another person that saw me there was a
9:24:27black person okay and was that black
9:24:29person rick
9:24:31i guess
9:24:32well where were you with any other black
9:24:34guy there no
9:24:35so you know him as rick yep
9:24:38okay
9:24:39and you told him what that day then
9:24:43if he knew anybody who could help me
9:24:45take care of a job
9:24:47that i wanted to be killed
9:24:49okay and he said what call this number
9:24:52okay did he write it down yes
9:24:55where's that number now
9:24:57i put i i put it into my phone and then
9:25:00i threw the paper out
9:25:02okay
9:25:03what was the number you put in your
9:25:05phone i don't mind what i remember it
9:25:07was just on my phone
9:25:11what can you remember about that number
9:25:13though i had an eight and a five in it
9:25:17what did it start with
9:25:20let's pull one six or six four seven
9:25:34because no one else i have had an eight
9:25:36okay
9:26:02okay so what's the text that you have
9:26:05what's that
9:26:07he said what's up and what did you send
9:26:10back
9:26:12that's my friend
9:26:15okay
9:26:18okay he told me once or twice just
9:26:21basically you just
9:26:23want to need to know when that was it
9:26:26okay so when did you first talk to the
9:26:29guy
9:26:34where did you meet him i never met him
9:26:38and what's his name what did he go by
9:26:46did he have an accent
9:26:52what did he say he would do
9:26:55he's just like telling me
9:26:58so your specific request to him was what
9:27:03come and make sure he killed him
9:27:05and what did he say
9:27:07he said okay
9:27:10let me do me
9:27:12what does that mean
9:27:15let me do it my way
9:27:16okay
9:27:21isn't that odd that somebody would give
9:27:22a request like that
9:27:25to kill themselves
9:27:27he asked me
9:27:28and he's still going to charge you to do
9:27:30that
9:27:34okay so then what happened you said you
9:27:36talked a few other times what were the
9:27:38other talks
9:27:47okay so when
9:28:06okay well you're not gonna show up at
9:28:07your house randomly you're gonna have to
9:28:09know exactly when he's coming
9:28:12so how did that play him
9:28:15he texted he came on
9:28:18he texted me game on
9:28:20when did you get that text
9:28:31don't remember the time
9:28:33sometime in the evening
9:28:34one day
9:28:36that's it
9:28:37okay so before they came in you had a
9:28:40text that said game on
9:28:42okay and where did that come from
9:28:48part of me
9:28:51where did he send it from
9:29:04and what time did you get that game on
9:29:06call
9:29:07[Music]
9:29:11how many minutes before they came in
9:29:16okay let's get it we're working through
9:29:18it
9:29:21how many minutes before i don't know
9:29:30okay but
9:29:31they did come in
9:29:34right
9:29:36how much before
9:29:38you heard anything
9:29:40maybe an hour two hours
9:29:43so you were just waiting there for two
9:29:44hours i was watching tv
9:29:47okay so what time did you get the game
9:29:49on where were you when you saw that
9:29:51message first
9:29:57adrienne okay so he was there
9:30:00did you tell him no
9:30:03who else knows about this
9:30:10ken
9:30:11who else knows about this
9:30:18okay
9:30:20and who are they i don't know who they
9:30:23are
9:30:24he just said let me do me and then that
9:30:26was it
9:30:27okay
9:30:28so he does come into the house
9:30:32you're the obvious only young girl there
9:30:34right
9:30:36okay
9:30:38when he came to her your room
9:30:44what discussions did you have with the
9:30:45guy that came to your room the real
9:30:47discussions you had not what you told us
9:30:49where was the money and i showed him
9:30:51where the money was
9:30:52okay
9:30:54but he obviously said i'm here to
9:30:56do what you asked he never said anything
9:30:59like that what did he say
9:31:02just like hands behind your back
9:31:11so the money you gave him was payment
9:31:13for killing you
9:31:15said
9:31:17he wanted two thousand
9:31:18yeah when did he give you that figure of
9:31:20two thousand
9:31:22one of our phone conversations
9:31:24okay what's that in one of our phone
9:31:26conversations okay
9:31:28so in all the phone conversations you
9:31:31had when was the first one that you had
9:31:33what month
9:31:35well and this doesn't happen every day
9:31:37that you ask somebody to kill you so
9:31:40honestly i don't remember
9:31:42okay
9:31:44i say you do remember you're gonna have
9:31:45to remember when's the first time
9:31:51i really really don't remember
9:31:54okay
9:31:57like from the first time you mentioned
9:31:59this to rick
9:32:01when was that back in june right
9:32:04is that right something like that
9:32:07i mean spring summer sometimes yeah how
9:32:09come it took so long
9:32:12because i didn't know
9:32:14you didn't know what i'm sure
9:32:18so when did you confirm 100 you wanted
9:32:21it done
9:32:24and they accuse me of doing something
9:32:25they didn't do
9:32:27true okay
9:32:29which was right
9:32:32you give me a thing daniel and i didn't
9:32:35okay so when was that
9:32:44okay so you got in contact with homeboy
9:32:48and said what
9:32:50i'd like you to comment
9:32:52about the 24 year old girl
9:32:58and he said
9:33:00okay i'll call you
9:33:02then one
9:33:07and then
9:33:14call me back and he's like
9:33:16are you sure
9:33:17yes
9:33:31did he discuss ways with you how he
9:33:33would do it no did you request any way
9:33:36for him to do it
9:33:38make sure no one else goes around
9:33:40okay
9:33:42and
9:33:45did you tell them who lived in the house
9:33:48yes
9:33:49what did you tell them
9:33:52okay did you tell them where they are in
9:33:54the house no
9:33:55what rooms are in
9:33:58where they would be
9:34:08so when
9:34:10why didn't they do it the way you wanted
9:34:12i don't know i asked them i asked them
9:34:14to teach you and my mom when they took
9:34:16them away
9:34:25i realized that but it doesn't seem to
9:34:28make sense
9:34:29i know it doesn't make sense to me
9:34:32but that's how i was supposed to be
9:34:44okay can you sit up for a minute jen
9:34:49okay look at me
9:34:50look at me
9:34:52okay
9:34:54we have
9:34:55remember everything i told you about
9:34:57what i do for a living
9:35:00okay
9:35:01i'm an expert in determining truth
9:35:04and half truths okay
9:35:07what you've just told me is half the
9:35:10truth
9:35:11okay
9:35:12now
9:35:13what i do believe
9:35:16is that you went to somebody
9:35:19and i do believe that night you paid
9:35:21them the two thousand dollars
9:35:24okay that's the true part
9:35:29okay
9:35:30right
9:35:33but what's not true is it was never for
9:35:35you
9:35:36okay jen no
9:35:38okay you went to this person
9:35:42and you asked them to do a job
9:35:44and the job was for your parents okay
9:35:47that's what we got to get to here
9:35:49okay i know that's what really happened
9:35:51jen
9:35:52okay that's what really happened
9:35:55okay so you've done good here
9:35:59you're telling me half the truth i'm
9:36:01gonna get the other half out here
9:36:03okay
9:36:04that's the part
9:36:05that you need to get to now
9:36:09okay
9:36:10maybe you were supposed to be part of it
9:36:12but you definitely
9:36:13wanted your parents out of the picture
9:36:16okay that was for sure
9:36:18okay so sit up and listen to me for a
9:36:20minute because this is important okay
9:36:23now listen
9:36:25because of how you've been treated for
9:36:27the last seven eight years of your life
9:36:31you no longer know how to tell the whole
9:36:33story the truth from the start okay
9:36:37you've been conditioned just to tell
9:36:39little bits of the truth
9:36:41and little bits about
9:36:43lies right
9:36:44that's what you've done for eight years
9:36:46now
9:36:47that's how you've lived
9:36:49it's an instinct now okay
9:36:52and that's part of your
9:36:52self-preservation that i talked about
9:36:54earlier okay
9:36:56and right now that's where we're at okay
9:37:00that's where we're at you did ask
9:37:02someone to come to the house jen but it
9:37:05wasn't for you
9:37:07okay
9:37:08pardon
9:37:10it
9:37:12you asked them
9:37:15to do
9:37:16this job on your parents gym
9:37:19okay let's be truthful
9:37:22okay nobody's gonna come there and get
9:37:25the wrong people
9:37:26okay
9:37:28they're not gonna tie you up and
9:37:31just kill your parents okay
9:37:33that's not gonna happen that's not
9:37:35realistic
9:37:36okay that never happened
9:37:38okay they were there because you planned
9:37:41this
9:37:43they were there because you gave the
9:37:45order
9:37:46okay and i understand why you gave the
9:37:48order because you couldn't do it
9:37:49yourself
9:37:51okay that's good okay
9:37:54jen
9:37:55okay
9:37:56but
9:37:57they were supposed to take your parents
9:37:59jen
9:38:00and they did that part
9:38:03okay
9:38:05nobody needs if you wanted to kill
9:38:07yourself jen you're not gonna pay
9:38:09somebody two thousand dollars to do it i
9:38:11couldn't do it okay
9:38:13but there's other ways
9:38:15okay
9:38:16and if that was going to happen
9:38:18they could have taken you outside
9:38:20and done it anywhere it wouldn't matter
9:38:22would it
9:38:24okay there's no need to involve other
9:38:25people in this
9:38:27if you really wanted to die
9:38:29all they would have had to do is pull up
9:38:31beside you in a car
9:38:33and shoot you
9:38:34right
9:38:36if you told me just to let him do it
9:38:38okay but you're not gonna accept that
9:38:40okay
9:38:41you're not gonna accept that
9:38:43he's just gonna randomly do it someday
9:38:45okay
9:38:46there's other things that happened on in
9:38:48this case jen okay
9:38:50you let them in the house
9:38:52you let them in we know
9:38:54that you went downstairs and you opened
9:38:57that door for them
9:38:59we know that
9:39:02jen
9:39:05you did leave the door open for them
9:39:06didn't you
9:39:08curtain yes yes
9:39:11and that's why you went downstairs
9:39:12earlier in the night right
9:39:14after your mom got home what did you do
9:39:18went down and said hello
9:39:21pretended to check the door
9:39:25and was it locked
9:39:28he made sure it was unlocked
9:39:32okay then what
9:39:35that's treasured
9:39:43okay so again we have some truth here
9:39:46that's good jen
9:39:48we know all along that he let them in
9:39:50okay you knew that i knew why you went
9:39:53downstairs okay
9:39:57that was done on purpose right
9:39:59you had to let them in right
9:40:03again
9:40:05okay now did they tell you to do that
9:40:08so what else did they tell you to do
9:40:11that was it just to make sure that they
9:40:12had access
9:40:14okay so what was the agreement then
9:40:23and they were supposed to kill me and
9:40:24then they called me and made sure that
9:40:26they had access okay so how did they do
9:40:28that though
9:40:29what was the question on the phone
9:40:32was it a text or a phone message text
9:40:34vip access
9:40:35what does that mean
9:40:37i didn't know and then they just make
9:40:38sure that they can get in
9:40:40okay so you saw a message that said vip
9:40:43access
9:40:44meaning they could get in okay and so
9:40:46what did you text back
9:40:48i didn't text them back i called them
9:40:50okay and what did you say i'm like what
9:40:52does that mean okay
9:40:54and what did they say make sure that
9:40:55there was a way in
9:40:57okay and what did you say would be the
9:40:59best way
9:41:00let me see it was just like front door
9:41:02and you're like yes
9:41:04okay
9:41:05all right
9:41:07so
9:41:11that's good jim i appreciate that
9:41:13because again everybody knew that's what
9:41:15happened okay
9:41:17your family
9:41:19is gonna lock those doors at night right
9:41:22that's the routine
9:41:23so you went down and checked the door
9:41:25and made sure it was unlocked
9:41:27right she was gonna check it before she
9:41:29went to bed anyway
9:41:30okay but she did go to bed to lynda
9:41:34right
9:41:35that's why i asked her
9:41:37okay did you say i've checked the door
9:41:40you didn't tell her okay
9:41:44and so when you went back upstairs
9:41:48did you actually talk to andrew
9:41:51or did you just say that no i really did
9:41:53something
9:41:55and the other guy
9:41:59okay
9:42:00in between those calls
9:42:04did they call you
9:42:07yeah or so how did that play in
9:42:11where between those calls did those
9:42:12calls come
9:42:16tell me how that happened
9:42:18that's when they got the text that
9:42:19that's when i got the text vip access
9:42:22okay so you were talking to andrew and
9:42:24it finished and then what
9:42:27you texted me thank you
9:42:29that's when i hung up and i asked i
9:42:31called and asked them
9:42:32okay so you hung up from andrew or from
9:42:36samantha okay
9:42:39can you phone them yeah what do you mean
9:42:41yeah and they said
9:42:43make sure the way in okay
9:42:46and you said that door
9:42:48okay
9:42:49and then
9:42:51i went down to the front board okay and
9:42:53what did you do
9:42:55not sure if they were locked yet when
9:42:57you weren't okay so how could you tell
9:43:02okay so you checked the
9:43:04what did you check
9:43:06okay
9:43:07and did you kind of turn it and turn it
9:43:08back or how
9:43:10does it remember
9:43:13when you left that door you were
9:43:14satisfied that it was open
9:43:17okay
9:43:18then
9:43:21what happened
9:43:25then everything else i said happened i
9:43:27went back to my room i called ed
9:43:29i didn't even know when they came in
9:43:32okay but you
9:43:34they came up to your room
9:43:36or somebody came up to you well like i
9:43:38said i heard my mom call from my dad and
9:43:40that's when i went out yeah
9:43:43and what happened
9:43:47and then he was there standing there
9:43:49okay give me one sec okay
9:43:53[Music]
9:44:11so
9:45:26okay sorry about that
9:45:29okay
9:45:32so
9:45:33we get to the point
9:45:36where
9:45:38um
9:45:40you get the text message
9:45:42and you go down
9:45:44you do the door you go back upstairs and
9:45:46what do you do
9:45:50okay why do you call him
9:45:52what i usually do
9:45:54okay
9:45:56what were you expecting to happen next
9:46:00i honestly i don't know
9:46:04because he didn't tell me this let me do
9:46:06me i didn't know how he was gonna do
9:46:08anything okay what else did he say on
9:46:10the phone like how
9:46:11like he must have told you we're around
9:46:13the corner or something
9:46:16did he tell you how long
9:46:19okay but it was on for that night he had
9:46:21game on on the text
9:46:24what did you do with those text messages
9:46:30okay and the phone that you were using
9:46:32were you using two phones at night
9:46:35okay you have to sit up because i can't
9:46:37hear you here you were using two phones
9:46:39okay
9:46:40so the phone you were talking to
9:46:42with andrew on was what phone
9:46:45and the one you were talking to them on
9:46:47was what
9:46:48the iphone okay
9:46:51and then
9:46:54did you ever talk to them on the samsung
9:46:59now
9:47:01um
9:47:03what next
9:47:07and everything else that happened next
9:47:08week
9:47:10okay
9:47:11now
9:47:13look at me john
9:47:16you're almost there
9:47:18okay
9:47:20most of what happened in the house
9:47:22happened okay we know that okay
9:47:25you gave a description of a black guy
9:47:27with dreads there was no black eye with
9:47:29dreads in there okay we know that
9:47:31okay we know that because your dad's not
9:47:34gonna miss that
9:47:35okay he gave a good description of the
9:47:37guy that you were with and he's not even
9:47:39black so tell me about that
9:47:42on this thing honestly jen that's
9:47:44exactly you gotta be up front
9:47:46here okay because obviously you didn't
9:47:48want to tell us everything because there
9:47:50was a plan he didn't tell us that that
9:47:52night either
9:47:53okay
9:47:54so now
9:47:56after that that guy with dreadlocks was
9:47:58never there
9:47:59okay so why did you say that
9:48:02but that's what i remember okay you
9:48:04can't mix that guy up with the
9:48:06description your dad gave he's not even
9:48:07the same color
9:48:10right
9:48:12tell me why you said guy with dreadlocks
9:48:14because that's who because there was no
9:48:16guy with dreadlocks there
9:48:19that's the problem here
9:48:22okay
9:48:24that's the problem okay now
9:48:26the issue here is this and you have to
9:48:28look at me
9:48:30okay
9:48:31your dad wasn't supposed to be a witness
9:48:34okay
9:48:35that's where this whole thing went wrong
9:48:37okay your dad wasn't supposed to live
9:48:40okay
9:48:41and when he did live he was able to tell
9:48:44us what really happened that night
9:48:46okay
9:48:47which was in conflict with what you told
9:48:49us okay
9:48:52seriously in conflict okay you had all
9:48:54these things about number two going
9:48:56upstairs everything else
9:48:57number two was down there with a gun on
9:48:59your mom
9:49:00number three was done he didn't okay we
9:49:02know that never happened okay i don't
9:49:04want to argue about it okay i'm not
9:49:06gonna argue but i've already gone
9:49:08you've gone this far but that doesn't
9:49:10mean
9:49:10okay what now let's get it all straight
9:49:13now because you
9:49:14this is a total
9:49:16half and half we're there again
9:49:19just like the school just like
9:49:20everything else
9:49:22this is how you deal with pressure okay
9:49:26you give half and you hold half
9:49:29you give half
9:49:30and you don't give the rest of the true
9:49:32facts okay
9:49:33that's your stress mechanism okay that's
9:49:36what you've been trained to do
9:49:38since you're 15 years old
9:49:40okay
9:49:41because your parents could never accept
9:49:43the truth
9:49:44that's why this whole thing happened
9:49:46okay no matter how honest you tried to
9:49:48be with them okay
9:49:50they didn't they always wanted more it
9:49:52was never good enough it was never good
9:49:55enough that you were a good kid okay
9:49:57and that you loved figure skating and
9:49:59piano and if that's all you ever did
9:50:01that's good enough but it wasn't good
9:50:02enough for them
9:50:04right
9:50:06and
9:50:09so what happened here i'll tell you what
9:50:10happened
9:50:13you
9:50:14made a specific request
9:50:17and the job was for your mom and dad
9:50:20okay nobody's gonna come in there and do
9:50:22the wrong job
9:50:24okay
9:50:25nobody's gonna do that
9:50:28they came
9:50:29you paid
9:50:31and they did what they were supposed to
9:50:32do
9:50:33okay
9:50:35if it was supposed to be for you you
9:50:37would have said that to them
9:50:38okay
9:50:40you never did
9:50:42okay this was always for two people
9:50:45okay
9:50:47this was about mom and dad because they
9:50:50had taken things too far in your life
9:50:52john
9:50:53okay
9:50:54that's what it's all about and you and i
9:50:56have to get that out right now
9:50:58okay so sit up for a minute
9:51:01let's get this final piece out okay so
9:51:04that's the only mistake you made in this
9:51:06whole thing
9:51:08you got fed up and you went out and did
9:51:11something about it
9:51:12okay this was all about
9:51:14self-preservation
9:51:17you had no choices this is the only
9:51:19choice you felt you had left
9:51:22jen
9:51:22i know that's why you feel so bad about
9:51:25this
9:51:26okay
9:51:27because
9:51:28okay
9:51:29no
9:51:30again
9:51:31you have to be honest with me here i am
9:51:33jen
9:51:34okay
9:51:35it's all gonna come out okay and the
9:51:38last thing that you want
9:51:40to happen later okay
9:51:42is for people to say that she didn't
9:51:44tell the whole truth
9:51:45okay this is your one chance
9:51:47okay okay but
9:51:49you made a request jen and this was a
9:51:52planned request
9:51:54okay and the plan
9:51:56was for your parents okay
9:51:58jen
9:51:59you have to be honest with this is the
9:52:01only thing that's in contention here
9:52:03okay
9:52:04you made the mistake okay everybody
9:52:06understands
9:52:07everybody in this police department
9:52:09feels sorry for you i can tell you that
9:52:11right now
9:52:12okay because they've seen what you're
9:52:14going through it's so obvious
9:52:16okay
9:52:17that all this tension you put out it
9:52:19basically is like a volcano all right
9:52:23and at one point it was just too much
9:52:25and you erupted okay and you made a bad
9:52:28decision
9:52:29okay
9:52:30and once you hired this guy there was no
9:52:32turning back
9:52:36it was supposed to be yourself
9:52:38jen
9:52:39no
9:52:40it would not happen that way
9:52:43okay it would not happen that way
9:52:46now in the original story you said that
9:52:48you hid your cell phone
9:52:50okay
9:52:51if it was for you you wouldn't have hid
9:52:53your cell phone that would have never
9:52:54happened
9:52:57so it's in conflict
9:52:59it's just i i put it there naturally
9:53:02it's what i naturally do but you said on
9:53:06tape that you hit it there and that they
9:53:08didn't know about it
9:53:11that's your language not mine jen
9:53:14which tells me that
9:53:16you intended to use it sometime to get
9:53:18out of there
9:53:19as a rescue member
9:53:22okay
9:53:23so
9:53:27i already know that you planned this jen
9:53:29and it wasn't for yourself
9:53:32we know that jen
9:53:34you know that
9:53:36i know you don't feel good about it and
9:53:38i know you've thought many times that
9:53:40you would not like to be here
9:53:42okay
9:53:44but who caused that why did you feel
9:53:46like that
9:53:47okay
9:53:49i'll tell you why it's because of the
9:53:51way you've been treated all these years
9:53:54you didn't bring that on yourself they
9:53:56brought it on you
9:53:59the depression you were cutting yourself
9:54:01and they didn't even pick up on it
9:54:04all they wanted was so much success out
9:54:06of you they were not even looking at you
9:54:09as a person
9:54:11they were looking for a success story
9:54:14instead of just saying
9:54:16whatever jen wants is what's good for us
9:54:22whatever she's happy with
9:54:24as long as she's happy in her life i'm
9:54:26happy with it if she wants to work at
9:54:29eastside mario's for the rest of her
9:54:31life
9:54:32that's fine if she wants to be a piano
9:54:35teacher that's great
9:54:38if she wants to continue figure
9:54:39screening that's wonderful
9:54:45you know what i'm saying
9:54:46jen you know what you're saying but this
9:54:49is what i know okay
9:54:50okay so the only thing that you haven't
9:54:52told me
9:54:54is that
9:54:55you put the plan in motion for your
9:54:57parents
9:54:58okay
9:55:00and now
9:55:04you would wish you never did
9:55:06and that's good okay
9:55:08it's good that you feel sorry about it
9:55:10because you do
9:55:12if you could go back you wouldn't have
9:55:14gave that plan to them would you
9:55:16i knew what they were gonna do okay look
9:55:19at me
9:55:20you knew what they were gonna do okay
9:55:22listen let's be rational here for a
9:55:24minute okay
9:55:27nobody makes a plan
9:55:29to have themselves killed in that
9:55:30fashion
9:55:32okay
9:55:33nobody shows up at your house for no
9:55:36reason and kills the wrong people
9:55:39okay
9:55:40[Music]
9:55:42that's where we're at here
9:55:44okay
9:55:46that's what you're afraid you're afraid
9:55:48to say that you made that mistake don't
9:55:50be afraid jen just tell the truth okay
9:55:52because we're getting into what's
9:55:54happened to you all your life okay
9:55:57i know exactly
9:55:59when and when you're not telling me
9:56:01exactly what happened okay
9:56:04you gotta give us some credit here
9:56:06this is all that i do okay
9:56:10and
9:56:11you're halfway to telling the whole
9:56:13truth
9:56:14okay this is another case of
9:56:16making something up in hopes that
9:56:19somebody will listen
9:56:21and accept it okay i can't accept it
9:56:24okay you know that and i know that
9:56:29right
9:56:31i can't accept that when i know it's not
9:56:33true and i don't like to see you doing
9:56:35this to yourself
9:56:38you're just beating yourself up some
9:56:39more here
9:56:41okay
9:56:42jen
9:56:44because i'm telling it to you but you
9:56:46say that it's contradicting and i don't
9:56:48okay then why it doesn't make sense okay
9:56:51that someone
9:56:52if they if you wanted yourself killed
9:56:54okay they wouldn't do it in your house
9:56:56okay there's no reason to hide anything
9:56:59okay
9:57:00someone can just walk up to you and
9:57:02shoot you somewhere where you're by
9:57:03yourself
9:57:04and nobody knows about it and they walk
9:57:06away but i'm never by myself
9:57:10okay at any time
9:57:12you can go out you were
9:57:13by yourself all day
9:57:15but they feel like they can't do it in
9:57:17the daytime
9:57:20okay
9:57:24so you could walk out the front door and
9:57:25they could have shot you there and ran
9:57:27away
9:57:30like they didn't have to involve other
9:57:31people and that's why it doesn't make
9:57:33sense
9:57:36you could have walked out on the front
9:57:38porch and that had been the end of it
9:57:39not supposed to leave the house okay but
9:57:43you've done it before
9:57:44right
9:57:53that night you could have walked out
9:57:54that front door
9:57:56and nobody know the difference
9:57:58for two seconds
9:58:00my mother would know she was right right
9:58:01there okay but they could have came and
9:58:03done it
9:58:04okay
9:58:07but they didn't tell me how they were
9:58:09gonna do it okay
9:58:12why would somebody
9:58:14shoot someone they didn't have to shoot
9:58:16i don't know i can't figure that out and
9:58:18actually not shoot the person they're
9:58:19supposed to shoot i don't know if i'm
9:58:21trying to figure it out okay why didn't
9:58:23you tell us this that night then
9:58:27so scared
9:58:29scared of what telling the truth
9:58:31yes
9:58:33that i wanted to die
9:58:35okay listen if you wanted to die you
9:58:38would tell us everything because it
9:58:39wouldn't matter
9:58:41again
9:58:43if you really wanted to die you would
9:58:45tell us everything because it doesn't
9:58:46really matter
9:58:48right it does matter because the wrong
9:58:50person's not hurt
9:58:51and my dad is suffering
9:58:57i appreciate that's what happened in the
9:58:58end but that's
9:59:00what was supposed to happen
9:59:02okay
9:59:03the good thing about this is your dad
9:59:05did live
9:59:07okay
9:59:08he did live
9:59:11and that went against the
9:59:12plan okay he wasn't supposed to make it
9:59:15through
9:59:16and he did so that's a good thing
9:59:19right
9:59:20that's a positive in this situation
9:59:24right
9:59:26ken my dad's hurt how can that be a
9:59:28pause but he's not dead is he no
9:59:31okay
9:59:32and this thing started out with him
9:59:34supposed to be dead
9:59:35okay
9:59:36jen there's just no doubt about that
9:59:38okay
9:59:39there's no doubt about that
9:59:42okay and you gotta remember
9:59:44we're all over this case okay
9:59:48and when you say something that's gonna
9:59:50contradict what other people tell us
9:59:53okay
9:59:55that the order was for mom and dad
9:59:56that's not gonna look good is it
9:59:58but it comes from someone else
10:00:02right
10:00:07because we're gonna solve this thing
10:00:09okay we already know what happened
10:00:12so i'm not in here guessing with you
10:00:16i already know what the order was from
10:00:18from you
10:00:20okay
10:00:21and i have to sit here with you
10:00:25and let you get that off your chest
10:00:28okay
10:00:30i know it's not easy
10:00:32and that's what you're worrying about
10:00:33order was from me it was for you
10:00:36no it was for your parents jen okay and
10:00:38that's hard to say i know that
10:00:40i know that's hard to say
10:00:43okay because that's not
10:00:45if you could make this decision over you
10:00:47would change it
10:00:48okay
10:00:50you would change it
10:00:52right of course
10:00:54if i knew who was gonna get hurt of
10:00:56course i wouldn't jen you knew who was
10:00:58gonna get hurt that's the whole issue
10:01:00here
10:01:01okay that's the whole issue here
10:01:03that's all we're dealing with here
10:01:06okay from the start i've told you that i
10:01:08know you were involved
10:01:10okay and it's beyond asking someone to
10:01:13kill you
10:01:14okay the order was for mom and dad okay
10:01:21the only mistake they made is they
10:01:23didn't get your dad
10:01:24okay yes they heard him
10:01:26okay
10:01:28yes he's injured
10:01:29but he's alive and that's a good thing
10:01:34and as i told you earlier this happens
10:01:36to 300 families a year
10:01:39300
10:01:42and it's always because of the same
10:01:44thing jen
10:01:46the people reach the end of their rope
10:01:50it's the last straw
10:01:52and they make a mistake
10:01:55and i agree once you put those wheels in
10:01:57motion
10:02:00you know
10:02:03it's hard to stop it
10:02:06it's very hard to stop it
10:02:12so let's get down to the bottom of this
10:02:14chat
10:02:16you got to help me through the rest of
10:02:18this
10:02:20okay
10:02:23now
10:02:25the only thing that's an issue here
10:02:27today
10:02:32is that you gave
10:02:34a request to these people
10:02:36for your parents and they carried it out
10:02:38okay
10:02:39you didn't do it that's a good thing
10:02:41okay you didn't shoot them you didn't
10:02:44hurt them
10:02:46your mistake was making a request
10:02:50right
10:02:52that's where you and i are at right now
10:02:54okay that's the only issue we need to
10:02:56talk about okay i'm not going to get
10:02:59into everything else because it's not
10:03:00even important
10:03:03okay
10:03:08but we need to see justice done here and
10:03:11we need to do that together again
10:03:13okay
10:03:15and
10:03:16there's only one face to justice okay
10:03:19that's the face of truth
10:03:22right now we only have half that face
10:03:24okay i need to see the rest of it
10:03:28okay we're only halfway there
10:03:30okay
10:03:31you made the mistake of asking them to
10:03:33do it okay
10:03:35you ask them to do your parents that's
10:03:38it's as simple as that jen okay and they
10:03:41did
10:03:42or they tried to
10:03:44okay
10:03:48but you're sorry that this happened
10:03:49right
10:03:50okay that's what the whole key is here
10:03:54everyone wants to know
10:03:56is she sorry because everyone knows that
10:03:58you did it okay
10:04:00but they want to know is given a chance
10:04:03and turning back the clock to that day
10:04:05would you do it
10:04:06again no
10:04:08right
10:04:10this was a one-time mistake right
10:04:13jen
10:04:15okay
10:04:17you gave them the plan
10:04:19for your parents right that's all i need
10:04:22to hear no
10:04:24jen
10:04:25you did
10:04:26no and this is not gonna go anywhere
10:04:28because
10:04:29i wanted them to kill me okay maybe you
10:04:31wanted that to happen as well
10:04:34okay
10:04:35and maybe things got so bad that that's
10:04:37how you feel
10:04:38okay
10:04:40but your parents were brought into this
10:04:42okay on your request
10:04:44yes jen this was your request
10:04:48okay and that's what we have to deal
10:04:50with okay and that's what you're afraid
10:04:51of here today
10:04:53that's what you're afraid of no one's
10:04:55thinking bad of you here everybody
10:04:57understands what you went through okay
10:05:00and what you are going through
10:05:02okay but what people are looking for
10:05:04from this young woman today you know
10:05:05what they're looking for
10:05:07again
10:05:09to know that you actually are sorry okay
10:05:12that you're sorry that you made the
10:05:14request for your parents okay it wasn't
10:05:16for you we're past that okay i don't
10:05:18want to talk about that okay the request
10:05:21was for your parents and your parents
10:05:23only that's it
10:05:25okay
10:05:27that's what you put in motion that's
10:05:29what happened okay
10:05:31we know that okay
10:05:33at the end of the day you have to look
10:05:35at yourself and say
10:05:37when bill
10:05:38came to me
10:05:40with the answer did i deal with it
10:05:43okay because that's where people are
10:05:45going to be looking at you now from
10:05:47they're going to be saying what did she
10:05:48do when the police knew and confronted
10:05:51her with the truth
10:05:54did she face reality and admit the truth
10:05:57or did she run from it
10:06:01does she even care what happened
10:06:03okay
10:06:04okay so you have to prove that now jen
10:06:06because the only way you can prove it
10:06:09that you really care is that you admit
10:06:10that you made a mistake i did make a
10:06:13mistake but
10:06:14we have to get that on the table though
10:06:16and it's not about you okay it's about
10:06:18them
10:06:19it's that simple okay it's not
10:06:21complicated okay is that what you want
10:06:23me to say but that's not how what
10:06:24happened tell me what happened you want
10:06:27me to tell i want you to tell me that
10:06:29you made the plan for your parents
10:06:31okay we're going to get to the rest of
10:06:33it anyways okay
10:06:35we already like i'm in here okay
10:06:39there's 20 other investigators on this
10:06:41case i'm only dealing with the truth as
10:06:43it regards to you
10:06:45okay there's a lot more things that you
10:06:47don't even know that i know that's why
10:06:49as you're not going to be able to tell
10:06:51me things
10:06:52okay
10:06:53that i don't know already okay so
10:06:55i will know when you're telling me the
10:06:57full truth i already know you made the
10:06:58plan so i can't just
10:07:00say okay yeah don't worry about it you
10:07:02made the plan for yourself but i know
10:07:04that's not true okay
10:07:06you got to know that i already have the
10:07:07answers okay or we wouldn't be sitting
10:07:09here
10:07:10okay
10:07:11so i do need you to tell me that you
10:07:13made the plan for your parents
10:07:15okay because that's what really happened
10:07:17jen okay i'm not asking you to lie to me
10:07:19i'm just asking you to tell me
10:07:22that you made the plan for your parents
10:07:24that's where we're sitting here right
10:07:26now trying to deal with
10:07:28okay that's a big
10:07:30hurt for you okay
10:07:32because i know that you still have love
10:07:34it's like a love hate thing and that's
10:07:36what happens in people's lives
10:07:38okay you love them to death but you
10:07:40can't live with them you can't live with
10:07:42the situation anymore
10:07:44okay
10:07:45that can happen in life it happens all
10:07:47the time okay
10:07:48and essentially you got forced into a
10:07:50corner here okay you didn't have any
10:07:53other choices
10:07:5624 years old jen and you're not allowed
10:07:59to make your own decisions
10:08:01a prisoner in your own house
10:08:049 o'clock curfew
10:08:10again i'm just surprised it never
10:08:12happened before this
10:08:15everybody's going to understand that jen
10:08:18but why they're going to understand it
10:08:21you know why they're going to understand
10:08:22it
10:08:23because that's the truth
10:08:25what people don't understand is when
10:08:27people tell half truths
10:08:29they recognize it right away
10:08:31they recognize that that's not what
10:08:32really happened okay that's not what
10:08:35really happened okay
10:08:37you've spent a lifetime trying to get
10:08:40around people
10:08:41and all it has ever done is hurt you
10:08:43more jen
10:08:46you missed out on an education
10:08:48because
10:08:50you tried to fake it okay
10:08:53you missed out on things that made you
10:08:55want to kill yourself
10:08:58and you realize that
10:09:00and it reached a low point to the point
10:09:02where
10:09:03if you don't care about yourself you
10:09:04can't care about other people
10:09:07you know what i mean you can't care for
10:09:09other people if you can't love yourself
10:09:12and that's where this got to jen
10:09:16and i don't blame you
10:09:18but we need to understand this together
10:09:20right
10:09:22we need to have a resolution here
10:09:27okay
10:09:34stuck
10:09:36okay
10:09:40can we understand each other again
10:09:42okay you've told so much of the truth
10:09:45you're just not telling the final
10:09:47portion this isn't even half truth
10:09:49anymore this is three quarters
10:09:51okay the only thing missing is a quarter
10:09:54of the truth okay
10:09:56the rest is true okay we know that
10:09:59okay
10:10:01we know you got the text
10:10:03you know that you gave the go-ahead
10:10:06okay
10:10:08but the go-ahead wasn't for yourself
10:10:10that's what's that issue here jen
10:10:13we're going to sit down here and work
10:10:15through this together
10:10:16okay we're going to work this out
10:10:21we're going to get the full truth
10:10:23because you know what
10:10:25his full truth is only 100
10:10:29not 75
10:10:30not 90 not 99.
10:10:33100
10:10:34everything that really happened that
10:10:36night
10:10:38okay jen
10:10:41all right
10:10:43let's do it together okay you did
10:10:45okay then it doesn't add up why doesn't
10:10:48that happen because that's not what
10:10:50happened okay
10:10:54the truth will add up
10:10:57half truths don't add up
10:10:59that's all they ever are is half truths
10:11:08now we have to understand each other and
10:11:11all i need to know
10:11:13well you've already told me that you
10:11:14made the plan
10:11:16okay
10:11:17the only issue we have here
10:11:20is that you made it for your parents and
10:11:22we know that
10:11:25i need you to tell me that
10:11:32okay
10:11:38okay
10:11:45tell me what happened
10:11:47i told you what happened okay all of it
10:11:51okay all you have to do is here is tell
10:11:53me right now
10:11:56that bill yes i made a mistake
10:11:59his plan was for my parents
10:12:03that's over
10:12:04oh that's the only issue here
10:12:06not about everything that happened that
10:12:08night we know what happened that night
10:12:09okay
10:12:12but we also know that you made this plan
10:12:14for them not
10:12:17okay
10:12:19or it's not gonna go to that
10:12:21okay give me a second
10:12:51so
10:14:18so
10:15:04okay i need you to listen close to me
10:15:07okay again
10:15:10at this point in the investigation okay
10:15:14i'm going to be arresting you for murder
10:15:17okay
10:15:18also attempted murder
10:15:20and conspiracy to commit murder do you
10:15:23understand that
10:15:26just have to tell me if you understand
10:15:28those charges
10:15:29just say yes or no
10:15:31yes
10:15:32okay it is my duty to inform you that
10:15:36you have the right to retain and
10:15:37instruct counsel without delay
10:15:40do you understand that
10:15:42and what does that mean to you
10:15:46yes okay
10:15:49you also have the right to telephone any
10:15:51lawyer your wish do you understand that
10:15:54yes
10:15:57you also have the right to free advice
10:15:58from a legal aid
10:16:01do buyer
10:16:01understand that
10:16:061-800-265-0451 is a toll-free number
10:16:09you have to listen here so can you take
10:16:11your hands off your ears i need you to
10:16:13listen there's a toll-free number that
10:16:15will put you in contact with a
10:16:18legal aid lawyer
10:16:20for free legal advice
10:16:22if you understand that
10:16:24so you can speak to a legal aid lawyer
10:16:26right now or a
10:16:28lawyer of your choice if you like do you
10:16:31understand that
10:16:33do you wish to call a lawyer now
10:16:38yes
10:16:40okay do you have a lawyer that you know
10:16:44how to speak to
10:16:45okay
10:16:46what i'm going to do is read you some
10:16:48other things and then we're going to
10:16:51deal with your lawyer okay we'll
10:16:54deal with how we're going to get that so
10:16:59you may be charged
10:17:01with murder
10:17:02attempted murder
10:17:04and conspiracy to commit murder
10:17:07in relation to
10:17:08your mother
10:17:09and father
10:17:11those are where those charges stem from
10:17:13do you understand that
10:17:15yes yes or no
10:17:18yes okay
10:17:20do you wish to say anything in answer to
10:17:22those charges
10:17:24you're not obliged to say anything
10:17:26unless you wish to do so
10:17:28but whatever you do say may be given in
10:17:30evidence do you understand that
10:17:33yes
10:17:34you just have to speak a little louder
10:17:36okay
10:17:38again
10:17:39i've already given this to you but i'm
10:17:40going to read it
10:17:42if you have spoken to any other police
10:17:44officer anyone
10:17:45with authority or if any such person has
10:17:48spoken to you in connection with this
10:17:49place
10:17:50i want it clearly understood that i do
10:17:52not want it to influence you in making
10:17:54any statement do you understand
10:17:58ken
10:18:00you just have to speak a little louder
10:18:01yeah
10:18:05okay so what we're going to do right now
10:18:06is do you have your own lawyer
10:18:09no
10:18:09no
10:18:11okay
10:18:12do you have a lawyer you would like to
10:18:14speak to that you know of
10:18:18okay
10:18:19would you like to speak to duty council
10:18:25i just want to talk to someone who can
10:18:27help me and understand
10:18:29okay so who would that be i don't know
10:18:35so do you have a lawyer
10:18:37you said that you were on my side
10:18:39okay i am on your side jen okay
10:18:42i know what happened here
10:18:44okay
10:18:46i'm on the side of truth
10:18:48okay i want that to come out here but at
10:18:51this point you need to deal with a
10:18:53lawyer you said okay
10:18:56i have to honor that request so what we
10:18:59need to do now before we discuss
10:19:01anything else
10:19:03okay
10:19:06is deal with that issue okay so we have
10:19:09options
10:19:10okay
10:19:11you
10:19:12can
10:19:14do you know anyone you can
10:19:15to
10:19:16a lawyer yourself no
10:19:19i can bring a phone book in here with
10:19:21numerous lawyers and you can look at
10:19:23that
10:19:25if you like
10:19:26and pick a lawyer
10:19:29or we can
10:19:30call duty council they will call back
10:19:33we'll put you in a private room and you
10:19:35can speak to them in private
10:19:38okay but the decision is yours
10:19:44what would you like to do
10:19:50i don't have any idea
10:19:52okay
10:19:55you do want to speak to a lawyer though
10:19:56you said
10:19:59that's your decision
10:20:01so i have to accommodate that now
10:20:05okay so that's what i want to do for you
10:20:06i want to accommodate that if that's
10:20:08what you want to do
10:20:22okay
10:20:23do you want me to call duty counsel for
10:20:25you
10:20:27okay
10:20:28okay or is there any other lawyer that
10:20:30you would like
10:20:32okay so at this point you wish to speak
10:20:34to duty council then
10:20:37sure okay so what i'm going to have to
10:20:39get you to do is actually empty all your
10:20:41pockets on the table here
10:20:43okay
10:20:44can you
10:20:47i have to
10:20:48tell people who are expecting me
10:20:51who's that
10:20:52my uncle okay we'll speak to them
10:20:55can you stand up and just tempt your
10:20:57pockets
10:20:58just put it on the table here
10:21:03okay
10:21:05okay anything else
10:21:07just pulling those pockets
10:21:09okay
10:21:10nothing else
10:21:12okay so just have a seat for a minute
10:21:14i'm just gonna check your coat
10:21:16okay
10:21:18okay so just sit down
10:21:46so
10:22:03okay so in your pockets you had a couple
10:22:05pads you had one in your jean pocket or
10:22:08with you and you had
10:22:10200 in cash is that correct
10:22:13did you have any more money
10:22:15okay and then you have this change here
10:22:18not correct
10:22:19anything else
10:22:22and your cell phone which i have here
10:22:24okay
10:22:25oh and change at 25 35 45 55 65 75
10:22:3285 95
10:22:35one dollar
10:22:38and seven cents
10:22:40so one hundred dollars
10:22:42one hundred one dollars and seven cents
10:22:44okay
10:22:45we'll put that in a bag for you
10:22:47okay
10:22:50sorry 200 you're right
10:22:53so
10:22:54201.7 cents two 100 dollar bills right
10:22:58okay that will be kept
10:23:00with some property for you when i come
10:23:02back in okay
10:23:05i'm going to make sure that they're
10:23:06making a call to do the council and
10:23:08we'll line that up and you can speak to
10:23:10the duty council in private okay
10:23:13all right
10:23:14do you have any jewelry around your neck
10:23:16at all
10:23:17okay
10:23:18all right hold tight while we do that
10:23:20okay
10:24:46so
10:28:50huh
10:28:57so
10:33:43we've made a call to duty council we're
10:33:45just waiting for them to call back okay
10:33:48you need a drink of water or anything
10:33:52what's that
10:33:54uh i do have to go and speak to these
10:33:56officers but i'll come back and speak to
10:33:58you okay
10:33:59so we gotta get we gotta take care of
10:34:01the lawyers okay that's the priority
10:34:03right now okay

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of INTERROGATION - Jennifer Pan's 10 Hour Police Interview-Interrogation for Her Mother's Death by BEE Archives, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 71,303 words across 13,484 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.