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Insulin Expert: How To 'Drain' Your Liver of Fat (Do This!) — Transcript

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0:00One of the problems with weight loss
0:02goals is saying you need to cut calories
0:04in order to get there. Now, I'm not
0:05saying calories don't matter. They are
0:07relevant, but not the most relevant. And
0:09I'm going to talk about evidence to
0:10support that.
0:11>> If someone is listening at home now and
0:13they have the goal of losing some
0:15weight, they want to be in a better
0:16physique, be more healthy. Is this
0:18conversation going to help them
0:19accomplish those goals?
0:21>> I'll make sure that they get what they
0:22need.
0:23>> Dr. Benjamin Bickman is one of the
0:25world's leading metabolic and fat cell
0:27scientists. And now he's returned to
0:29expose some of the myths surrounding
0:30weight loss
0:31>> and the surprising impact that one
0:33particular hormone has on our weight,
0:35brain, and mental health.
0:36>> As a metabolic scientist, I wouldn't
0:38want someone to think there is only one
0:39way to lose weight. However, I think
0:42this is the most practical and simplest
0:44strategy, a ketogenic diet. A huge
0:47reason is that when you cut carbs,
0:49insulin comes down. And insulin as a
0:51hormone is the one metabolic hormone to
0:54rule them all. Insulin will tell every
0:56single cell of the body what it needs to
0:58do with energy. And insulin is so
1:00determined to store energy that it is
1:02directing calories to be stored in
1:04tissues like fat or in the liver
1:06>> to make you fat.
1:07>> Yeah. But there's more. Ketones are the
1:09brain's preferred fuel. It can control
1:10anxiety, improve depression. It can help
1:12with attention. In fact, the benefits of
1:14ketones are so extensive that companies
1:17are finding ways so you [music] can
1:18drink ketones.
1:19>> And I have a bunch of different
1:20exogenous ketone products here, a
1:21variety of different brands and a bunch
1:23of other things here on the table. So,
1:24what the hell is this?
1:25>> If someone is interested in a good,
1:26smart way of losing weight, try that.
1:29>> This [snorts] is definitely a prop. It
1:30tastes like bleach.
1:32>> I'm so sorry. Oh my god.
1:34>> So, for 2026 to be the year where I
1:36finally get a grip of my health, and I
1:38asked you to [music] make the perfect
1:40plan, what would you prescribe?
1:42>> So, first of all,
1:45I see messages all the time in the
1:47comments section that some of you didn't
1:48realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you
1:50could do me a favor and double check if
1:52you're a subscriber to this channel,
1:53that would be tremendously appreciated.
1:54It's the simple, it's the free thing
1:56that anybody that watches this show
1:58frequently can do to help us here to
1:59keep everything going in this show in
2:01the trajectory it's on. So, please do
2:03double check if you've subscribed and uh
2:05thank you so much because in a strange
2:06way, you are you're part of our history
2:09and you're on this journey with us and I
2:10appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank
2:12you.
2:16>> [music]
2:20>> Dr. Benjamin Bickman,
2:22at this time of year, the audience that
2:25are listening right now are thinking a
2:26lot about health and dietary changes
2:28that they can make to make 2026 the best
2:31year of their life to finally be able to
2:33kick that habit. And one of the things
2:34that's front of mind, I think, for all
2:35of my listeners is their relationship
2:38with sugar, with carbs,
2:41>> right? And I guess the second order
2:43things that some people might know
2:45something about like insulin resistance
2:47and all these kinds of subjects. At this
2:49particular moment in the year, if you
2:51had the ear of millions of people as
2:54they're coming into 2026, what is the
2:57most important thing that you would say
2:59to them?
2:59>> Yeah, that's a great question. What a
3:01way to um to get things started. In
3:03fact, I appreciate you even framing the
3:04conversation as if I had the ear because
3:06you've given me the ear of millions of
3:08people. So, I'm going to take it
3:09seriously. The way you frame the
3:11question is really relevant because
3:13within North America, you see a a
3:17pattern, a rhythm to both weight gain
3:19and even insulin resistance as it is
3:21quantified throughout the year where in
3:23the winter months people gain more
3:25weight and are more insulin resistant.
3:27Almost like the hibernating bear, which
3:30becomes demonstrably more insulin
3:31resistant as it gets into hibernation.
3:34We non-hibernating mammals actually see
3:37an echo of the same thing, albeit more
3:39subtly. So, it matters now where
3:42physiologically we're more inclined to
3:45suffer from the consequences of bad
3:47dietary decisions.
3:49And of course, with all the holidays,
3:51we're more likely to be making those bad
3:53dietary decisions. So, my advice would
3:56be to structure your indulgences as
4:00smartly as you can. you know that you're
4:03going to be faced with foods that are
4:06delicious and dare I say addictive.
4:09Don't rely on your own intuition uh to
4:13guide you through eating that know that
4:16your temptation to indulge is going to
4:18be in some instances perhaps greater
4:20than you can control. So, structure your
4:23indulgences. Give yourself a distinct
4:25period of time where you know you're
4:26going to embib in these refined starches
4:28and sugars. And then, if necessary,
4:30recruit help. Have a family member, have
4:32a loved one join you in your plan, and
4:35you tell them, "I don't want to gain the
4:38same weight I gained last year. I don't
4:40want to amplify the consequences of
4:42insulin resistance like I did last year.
4:44Can you please be my my watchman and
4:47help me keep track where today is my day
4:50of indulgence or two days and then on
4:53that Monday remind me please be my
4:55helper um to get back on track. Among
4:58the many problems with the modern diet
5:01is the constant carbohydrate
5:03consumption. It is the one macronutrient
5:05that we have the hardest time
5:07controlling and I would say it's the one
5:08macronutrient that has the most
5:10disastrous consequences in the form in
5:12which we consume it. Now, of course,
5:15carbohydrates is a broad class of food.
5:17Some are just fine and some are not. Of
5:20course, we more focus on the ones that
5:22are not fine. So, my advice would be
5:24structure your indulgences, be mindful
5:27of what you're doing in that you are not
5:29doing yourselves any favor. uh and then
5:31recruit outside help because you will
5:32not be able to rely on your own
5:34intuition to pull you out of what might
5:36become the sort of carbind induced coma.
5:40>> Um I did ask thousands of the listeners
5:42what dietary changes they had planned
5:44for 2026 and what they cared about most.
5:47Funnily keto came up number one then
5:49cutting sugar then weight loss then
5:51fasting more protein whole foods low
5:54carb and calorie control. So this is
5:58going to be a bit of a road map for me.
6:00I'm thrilled to hear that order. Like
6:03when you put out the histogram and
6:04you're looking at the most common
6:05responses, the fact that calorie number
6:08was at the bottom actually kind of
6:09thrills me because this reflects that
6:12the tide is turning that over the past
6:15decades, 60 plus years, the singular
6:18piece of advice when it came to weight
6:20loss and metabolic health was eat less,
6:22exercise more, which is a purely
6:24thermodynamic or a a calorie centric
6:28paradigm. just stating nothing else
6:30matters other than the energy you're
6:32putting in and the energy you're putting
6:33out. We can't possibly account for all
6:37of the energy in the complexity of the
6:39human body. You can have humans eat two
6:41meals that are identical in calorie
6:44number. So purely isocaloric
6:47and there is something called the
6:48thermic effect of food. So when we eat
6:50right now you and I haven't eaten, we're
6:52in a fasted state. Our metabolic rate is
6:54say humming along here. If we were to go
6:56get lunch and eat something in the hours
6:58following just the very act of digesting
7:01we have turned up the metabolic engine
7:03and metabolic rate would go up a little
7:05bit.
7:05>> Metabolic rate meaning
7:06>> meaning the total amount of energy the
7:08body is is expending. In fact metabolism
7:11to I'll come back to this thought in
7:13just a second. As a metabolic scientist
7:15people don't even understand the word
7:16metabolism. Metabolism is
7:19underwhelmingly perhaps nothing more but
7:22nothing less than the sum of every
7:25chemical reaction happening in our
7:26bodies. It's just everything that is
7:30keeping us alive, that is keeping our
7:32neurons firing, my my my muscles moving
7:34as I'm animating on the my hands.
7:37Everything we're doing is metabolism.
7:40And so after we eat, metabolism goes up
7:42a little bit. Again, that's called the
7:43thermic effect of food. And if you give
7:46people two isocaloric meals, so exact
7:50same number of calories. That's what
7:51isocaloric means. same amount of protein
7:54and yet the they differ in their
7:56composition of macronutrients with fats
7:59and and carbs. So the meal that is lower
8:03carb and higher fat, those individuals
8:06will have a much higher metabolic rate
8:08for hours afterwards than the group that
8:11is eating the high carb, low-fat version
8:13of that same caloric meal. And that's
8:16because insulin insulin as a hormone is
8:19the one metabolic hormone to rule them
8:21all. It will determine what the body
8:24does with energy at every single cell.
8:26This is a principle even many very
8:28educated clinicians don't understand.
8:31They think that insulin only controls
8:33blood glucose. That's just the most
8:35obvious thing that it does because we
8:37can prick a finger and measure it or
8:38slap something on our arm and measure
8:40the glucose. Insulin will tell every
8:42single cell of the body from brain cells
8:44to bone cells, liver cells to lung
8:46cells, and everyone in between what it
8:49needs to do with energy. And insulin is
8:51so determined to store energy that it
8:54will slow the metabolic engine of the
8:56body down in order to store more. And so
8:59all of this is my long- winded way of of
9:02saying how thrilled I am that this is an
9:04audience that is shrugging off the old
9:07ideas of a calorie ccentric model of
9:09obesity. Because all of these people,
9:11everyone's interested in losing weight
9:12or maintaining weight, which I admire.
9:15That's a good goal. The size of our fat
9:16cells matters tremendously. So that's a
9:19good goal to want to shrink our fat
9:20cells and be healthier. The fact that
9:22they didn't put controlling calories as
9:24number one and indeed put it at the end
9:26suggests that the word is getting around
9:29that more I would say better more sound
9:31metabolic science is starting to seep
9:34through society where they're more
9:36interested in controlling their
9:38macronutrients.
9:40In other words, their carbs and their
9:41fats than they are controlling their
9:43calories.
9:45>> My brother called you, didn't he?
9:46>> He did.
9:46>> My older brother.
9:47>> Yeah. What did he say?
9:49>> Yeah, he's darling. Well, we we had some
9:50wonderful conversations. Um, he was
9:53interested as a dad, a middle-aged dad,
9:56in in fact indeed checking a lot of the
9:58boxes you just mentioned, which is I
9:59want to be a healthy dad. I want to live
10:01a long, healthy life. One of the
10:03problems with weight loss goals is they
10:05look at the goal. They look at the
10:06weight where they want to get to.
10:08They're looking down the down the road
10:09and saying, "This is where I want to
10:10get, and so I need to cut calories in
10:13order to get there." [sighs] So there
10:15are two there are two variables that
10:17come into play when it comes to losing
10:19weight. And I've already said said this
10:21and I'll state it again just to be
10:22clear. It's a matter of shrinking fat
10:24cells. That's what happens when
10:26someone's losing fat mass. It's not that
10:28you're losing fat cells. Indeed, you
10:30don't want to. That's a topic for
10:32another time. But liposuction is a
10:34perfect example where you are losing fat
10:36mass and yet no health marker gets
10:39better. None. Even though you've lost,
10:41you could go in and suck out fat cells
10:43and you'd say, "I lost 20 pounds of pure
10:45fat. I'm now going to go to my doctor
10:47and get my blood test and I'm going to
10:49be so much healthier." And yet
10:51[clears throat] nothing is different. If
10:52they were diabetic, they're just as
10:54diabetic. So if someone's looking at
10:56their New Year's goals, and when I spoke
10:58with your brother, it was an echo of
10:59this conversation in a way. I said, "All
11:02right, you need to shrink your fat
11:03cells." Most people only look at the
11:05calorie control. The problem with
11:08calorie control is that we've seen what
11:11it looks like when you only focus on
11:13calorie deprivation. And that is in in a
11:16word hunger. And there was this within
11:19the US there's been this game show over
11:20the years called the greatest loser.
11:22These people one lose a fantastic amount
11:25of weight and yet you never see them
11:27again because they gain it all back. So,
11:30if your weight loss strategy is based on
11:33cutting calories without addressing
11:35insulin, which is the other of the two
11:36variables, then you're going to be
11:38hungry. Dr. David Lewig at Harvard, a
11:41friend and colleague and collaborator,
11:43he published a report looking at the
11:45same kind of dynamic that I outlined a
11:47moment ago, two isocaloric or equal
11:49calorie meals. And he found that when
11:53they ate the meal that spiked insulin,
11:56the what he called I think he called it
11:58total energy availability. So they
12:00measured every calorie molecule in the
12:03blood. So ketones, you know, BHB, they
12:05measured uh lactate, they measured fats,
12:08they measured glucose, and they found
12:10that when with the insulin spiking meal,
12:13the total energy availability went down.
12:15>> What does that mean?
12:16>> Yeah. So in other words, with the
12:17increase in insulin, as I noted a moment
12:19ago, insulin is so determined to store
12:21energy that it is directing calories to
12:24go from the blood to be stored in
12:26tissues like fat or in the liver
12:28>> to make you fat.
12:29>> Yeah, indeed it would. But the problem
12:31is the brain doesn't have that storage
12:34capacity. You know, you could have big
12:35fat cells with lots of energy. You could
12:37have a liver with tons of fat and
12:39glycogen, which is a stored form of
12:41glucose, ready to go, but the brain
12:44doesn't have a big storage reservoir,
12:47and yet it has a high metabolic rate.
12:49And so the brain is constantly relying
12:51on the energy in the blood that it can
12:53use, especially glucose and ketones, the
12:56two primary fuels for the brain. And so
12:59when you spike insulin, you lower your
13:01glucose and you stop your liver from
13:04making ketones. So the two main brain
13:07fuels have gone down,
13:08>> which is why you get brain fog.
13:10>> It certainly lead to some mild cognitive
13:13impairment, but it would also drive
13:14hunger. And so another group found that
13:16if you ate an isocoric breakfast, one
13:19low carb, one high carb, the group that
13:22was on the high carb breakfast was much
13:24hungrier much sooner.
13:26>> And so this
13:27>> Okay. So let me just
13:28>> Yeah. Yeah. The way I understand that is
13:31>> because I've had a meal that's high in
13:34sugar, let's say, or carbs.
13:35>> Y
13:37>> insulin has come out, it's grabbed all
13:39of the energy from my blood.
13:41>> Yep. That you just ate.
13:43>> That I just ate. It's stored it all
13:44away. And because my brain is getting
13:46its energy from the blood as well, my
13:49brain is being energy deprived in some
13:51way. And so my brain is going
13:53>> within an hour or two, you are hungry.
13:55>> Yes. Even though your fat cells might be
13:57bigger than they've ever been. So that's
13:58the sort of disconnect that you end up
14:00having when you're spiking insulin so
14:01frequently, you may have hundreds of
14:04thousands or even millions of calories
14:07stored on your body in your fat cells
14:09primarily. And yet the brain is saying,
14:12"I'm hungry." We shouldn't be hungry. We
14:15have so much energy that we can use, but
14:18only if we can access it. And this is
14:20where ketones come in. And I hate to
14:22change the topic, but if if a person has
14:24fat and they can burn that fat, then
14:26they're making ketones. And ketones are
14:28the brain's preferred fuel. Let's just
14:30state that with an exclamation mark. And
14:33so if the brain is getting ketones or
14:35even if it has access to plenty of
14:37glucose, it senses, hey, there's no
14:39energy deprivation. We're fine. We don't
14:40need to eat. And that's what these
14:43studies find. And so back to the
14:44conversation with your brother, rather
14:47than focusing on calorie number, focus
14:50on the other variable, which is insulin.
14:53Because if you decide that you're going
14:55to start your fat cell shrinking
14:57journey, so with the first step, you
14:59could say, well, my first step is going
15:00to be cutting calories. But if you
15:02haven't addressed your high insulin,
15:04which you have to have if you've gained
15:06weight, it is impossible.
15:08In fact, this is worth a tangent for
15:10just a moment because I can state this
15:13so emphatically.
15:14You could have all the hormones in the
15:16human body and tens of thousands of
15:19calories coming in every day. And if you
15:21simply remove one single hormone, it is
15:24impossible for that person to get fat.
15:27Totally and completely impossible. Now,
15:30I am a scientist enough that I like to
15:32avoid hyperbolic language. I don't want
15:34to state anything in the extreme. And
15:36yet, in this case, I actually can. I can
15:38revel in all of the um the power of this
15:41declaration which is you simply wipe out
15:43a person's insulin, it is completely
15:46impossible for them to get fat. In fact,
15:48this phenomenon is so real and so
15:51learned if not already known that you
15:54have people with type 1 diabetes.
15:56Imagine the temptation. Let's say you're
15:58a young woman who faces more pressure
16:00than her than her young men
16:02counterparts. She just gets diagnosed
16:04with type 1 diabetes and she has become
16:06used to eating whatever she wants and
16:10being very very skinny. That is one of
16:11the cardinal signs of type 1 diabetes.
16:13The person is just losing weight. In
16:15fact, the early the ancients thought
16:18that as they were making so much urine
16:20because another feature of type 1
16:22diabetes in in an untreated state is
16:24they urinate a lot. That's what the word
16:25diabetes means. It means polyura or a
16:28lot of urine for formation. They thought
16:30that their flesh, their fat, their
16:32substance was turning into liquid and
16:35excreting from their bodies. And so the
16:37person, this this imagine this young
16:39woman, she's say 13 years old. She is
16:41super super skinny, which she likes
16:44because there's such a pressure to be
16:45skinny and she can also at the same time
16:48eat whatever she wants. And then but of
16:51course she feels miserable and indeed it
16:53will kill her. So, she gets diagnosed
16:56with type 1 diabetes and she's put on
16:58insulin therapy and two things happen.
17:00She starts eating less and getting fat.
17:04In fact, they gain people will gain so
17:06much weight that if they're in the
17:08hospital for a few days, they can't
17:10leave the hospital with the same clothes
17:12they came in. That's not to say they're
17:13leaving and then and they're obese, but
17:15they can have easily gained 10 pounds,
17:1715 pounds of fat. So this phenomenon is
17:20known and you have people with type 1
17:22diabetes who abuse that fact and will
17:24deliberately underdose their insulin. So
17:27they can eat whatever they want. They
17:29could go to a Thanksgiving or Christmas
17:31dinner and indulge in all the sweets and
17:35just simply underdose their insulin and
17:38be as skinny as they want to be. Now
17:40there's disastrous metabolic
17:41consequences, but it's just a testament
17:43to the power of insulin. So to finally
17:46answer the question, my advice when I
17:48was speaking with your brother and
17:49anyone listening, don't have your first
17:52step on your fat cell shrinking journey
17:54be low calorie because you will find
17:57that in short order, hunger will win.
17:59And so you'll be right back where you
18:01started. Let your first step be I'm
18:03going to lower my insulin because as I
18:06lower my insulin, I don't have to worry
18:08about hunger first of all. Because if
18:10you're just focusing on lowering
18:11insulin, you can tell the person, and
18:13indeed I am, eat as much protein and fat
18:16as you want because they have little to
18:18no effect on your insulin. So, anytime
18:20you're hungry, eat something with
18:22protein and fat. Um, and then
18:25if you're not hungry, don't eat. But
18:28anytime you're hungry, you don't have
18:29to, it's not deprivation. It's not
18:30hunger, but the low calorie approach is
18:32hunger. You're going to be hungry. So
18:35lower your insulin by controlling your
18:36carbohydrates and and basically whole
18:39fruits and vegetables. Enjoy them. And
18:41this is part of the conversation I had
18:42with your brother.
18:43>> And he called you and told you that he
18:45had had positive results following
18:47watching this conversation and following
18:49your advice.
18:49>> Yeah. I think he said he'd effortlessly
18:51lost 15 or so pounds uh just without
18:54even really worrying about it because
18:56you're not having that gnawing hunger.
18:58>> Yeah. He um he didn't tell me he was
19:00reaching out to you. So, I actually only
19:02found out that he had spoken to you when
19:04he like messaged me one day on WhatsApp
19:06and was like,
19:07>> "I've been chatting to Dr. Benjamin
19:09Bitcoin." I was like, "How did you get
19:10his email? Like, how did you get his
19:11phone number?" So, he must have reached
19:12out.
19:13>> He knows people.
19:13>> Okay. Right. Okay. He found a way.
19:15>> Yeah. He knows people.
19:16>> No, but he looks radically different. I
19:18have to say he he's dropped a ton of
19:20weight and um looks fantastic.
19:23>> Well, he was already handsome, so I can
19:24only imagine what he looks like now.
19:26>> That's the genetic component. Um but but
19:29when I look back at the conversation we
19:30had
19:32the top comment on our previous
19:33conversation is someone saying I was
19:36morbidly obese 68 days ago. I was 280
19:40lbs and pre-diabetic. In these 68 days I
19:43cut out sugar and flour entirely. And I
19:47reduced my calories to about 1,800 a
19:50day. And I'm pleased to know that my
19:52high protein, highfat, low carb diet is
19:55the right path and my blood sugar is now
19:58normal.
19:59>> Yeah. Remarkable. I I don't mean to ever
20:03come across as saying that there's only
20:05one way to lose weight and that anyone
20:07listening who uh is interested in weight
20:10loss would say, "Well, gosh, it looks
20:12like I have to eat a lot of meat and
20:13eggs." And yet, you don't. As much as I
20:16am an a defender of that view, uh I
20:19wouldn't want someone to think there is
20:20only one way to lose weight because we
20:22could both think of people who adopted a
20:25purely plant-based diet and lost weight.
20:27Now, I have some significant concerns
20:29with that diet long term, but even
20:31still, they could say, "Well, I'm eating
20:33100% carbohydrates essentially, and I've
20:36lost weight." I'm not saying calories
20:38don't matter. They do. But it also makes
20:42it a hard long-term strategy. And so if
20:44someone can lower their insulin, I' I'd
20:47alluded to a metabolic advantage and
20:48I'll just revisit that briefly. I'd
20:50mentioned already one of these things,
20:52which is when when insulin is down, the
20:54metabolic rate goes up. And my lab
20:57published a report um finding that part
21:00of that is through the production of
21:01ketones. That when ketones move through
21:04the bloodstream and come to our fat
21:06cells, they will increase our metabolic
21:08rate in our fat tissue by three times.
21:10And we did this in humans. We studied
21:13fat cells in a petri dish. We studied
21:15fat tissue from animal models. And then
21:18we studied fat tissue from humans where
21:20we actually were pulling biopsies of
21:21belly fat from people that were in
21:23ketosis or not. And when they were in
21:25ketosis, their metabolic rate in their
21:27fat tissue was three times higher than
21:30when they weren't than the group that
21:31was not in ketosis. So this suggests
21:33that there's an advantage here that
21:36comes from lowering insulin. So as
21:38insulin comes down, the person will find
21:40that they're just burning weight more
21:41easily. And then one other part of that
21:44is when you're making ketones,
21:46every ketone has a caloric value roughly
21:49similar to that of glucose. And so what
21:52happens now in ketosis or when ketones
21:55are up, you start wasting those ketones
21:58from your body that you're breathing
22:00ketones out or you're urinating ketones
22:02out. And those are calories that are
22:04just coming from your body that would
22:06have had to be burned through exercise
22:08or stored in fat tissue. And yet in the
22:12in a low insulin state, that is so
22:15antithetical to fat storage that the
22:17body just starts literally wasting
22:19energy. So every breath they're taking
22:21out when they're breathing out ketones,
22:23those are calories just coming out of
22:24their body.
22:24>> So let's start then with ketones because
22:26on the list of things that my audience
22:28said they planned to change for the new
22:29year, keto
22:31>> Mhm.
22:32>> and ketones was top of that list for
22:34someone that's, you know, never heard
22:36the term before.
22:37>> Yeah.
22:37>> Um, please give me context on on what
22:39exactly it is, but also how it relates
22:42to living a healthy, happy 2026.
22:44>> Right. Right. Well, I am I'm a great
22:47defender of ketones. I think that they
22:50have been one of the more uh
22:51misunderstood molecules in the body for
22:53decades and it is thrilling for me to
22:54see an explosion of research in this
22:57realm looking at the effects of of
22:59ketones in the body. So a ketone is a
23:02molecule that the body will make. Um
23:04many tissues can make it but if you're
23:06measuring it in your blood it's coming
23:07from the liver and ketones are a product
23:10of fat burning. So when insulin is low,
23:14which it must be for the body to make
23:16ketones, that's why it's ketogenesis or
23:18the genesis or the creation of ketones,
23:20to be in a ketogenic state, you must
23:23have low insulin. That's required. Um,
23:26when insulin goes down, you have two
23:28important things happening. First,
23:29starting at the fat cell, then going to
23:31the liver. When insulin is down, the fat
23:33cell is breaking apart its
23:35triglycerides, which is the molecule
23:37that the fat cell stores as fat. So
23:40that's called lipolysis. Lipolysis,
23:43lipid breaking or fat breaking. So you
23:45have in a low insulin state, the fat
23:47cells breaking down as fats. Now those
23:49fats are coming to the liver.
23:51>> So in a low insulin state, you mean if I
23:53was fasting
23:54>> fasting or low carb?
23:55>> Okay.
23:56>> Yep. [clears throat]
23:56>> So the minute I'm low carb or fasting,
23:58then I start producing these things
24:00called ketones.
24:00>> Yeah. Within about 16 hours. So if you
24:02and I went to lunch and we ate a typical
24:04kind of high carb type lunch, a typical
24:08lunch with all kinds of macronutrients
24:09in it, our insulin would go up and then
24:12if we stopped eating then about 16 or so
24:16hours later, we would start making
24:18ketones. That's a long enough period of
24:20time for fat burning to kind of take
24:22over. And so the fat cell is breaking
24:25down its fat. That fat is going to the
24:27liver right here. In fact, so here we
24:31don't have a lot of subcutaneous fat on
24:33this guy here, unfortunately. So on the
24:35outside in the front of the body or
24:37around the middle, we have this fat that
24:39we can pinch and jiggle. That's the
24:40subcutaneous fat. So it would be
24:42surrounding in this model for those
24:44watching, it'd be surrounding the organs
24:46on the outside. That is fat that the
24:48body burns very readily. That fat is
24:51running to the liver in very short
24:53order. So it goes to the liver and now
24:57the liver has some options. The liver is
25:00the I say that the liver is the soccer
25:02mom of nutrient metabolism. It knows
25:04what to do with everything. Whether it's
25:07lactate or glucose or fats or ketones,
25:09the liver can handle all of them. So,
25:11the liver is getting a lot of fat from
25:13fat cells. And it has some options. It
25:16would say, "Well, I can store this fat
25:18or I can burn it." And and how does the
25:21liver decide? Insulin tells it what to
25:23do. And if insulin is down, the liver
25:26cannot store fat. it it has to burn it.
25:30>> So if I'm fasting, if I've been fasting
25:33say for two days for example or I've not
25:34been eating carbs for two days,
25:36>> the liver won't store.
25:39>> It will not. In fact, the liver, it is
25:41so antithetical to fat storage in the
25:44liver that you have human studies where
25:46people have significant fatty liver
25:48disease confirmed through ultrasound
25:49measurements and they can just go on a
25:52ketogenic or a low carb diet for just a
25:54week and if I recall the study
25:56correctly, I think it reduced the liver
25:58fat by like 60%. And compared and which
26:01was significantly more than the high
26:03carb version and so even it was the same
26:05calories. Once again, just further
26:07evidence that calorie number, as much as
26:09I don't calories matter, but just
26:12they're not number one. They they're
26:14they're they they're relevant, but not
26:15as not the most relevant. So, you the
26:17the liver cannot hold on to its fat as
26:20insulin comes down. It must burn it. And
26:23the liver begins within each liver cell,
26:26the liver is burning so much fat that
26:29it's actually it's burning more than it
26:30needs for its own energy. And it's
26:33basically, if you'll allow me to speak a
26:35little silly, the liver begins to say,
26:37"I'm burning more energy than I need. I
26:39wonder how the brain's doing." And the
26:42brain won't burn fat. The brain will
26:44burn ketones. And so the liver starts
26:46creating ketones is as its it's its way
26:50of sharing the energy with the brain. So
26:52a ketone is, to put it very succinctly,
26:54a product of the liver burning a lot of
26:57fat. Anytime you're burning a lot of
26:59fat, you're going to be making ketones.
27:02People have heard of the keto diet. Um,
27:05when you talk about the keto diet,
27:06there's lots of rebuttals.
27:07>> Some people say it's not sustainable.
27:09You can't do it for a long period of
27:10time.
27:12>> How do you respond to arguments against
27:14keto?
27:14>> Yeah, that's that's a great question. I
27:16appreciate the concerns. The the stated
27:19concern that they would say it's not
27:21feasible.
27:22You can say that about any diet. You
27:24really can. And I don't mean to um push
27:28aside people's concerns, but you could
27:31say the same thing about someone going
27:32on a low-fat, lowc calorie diet. That's
27:35not sustainable, and it never is. They
27:36always get off it. And so, anytime a
27:39person is making a dietary change to
27:42improve their metabolic health, every
27:44diet works until you stop doing it. Uh
27:47that might be a maxim that people can
27:50leave with. Um a ketogenic diet because
27:52it's not based on hunger. I think has
27:55the potential to work. But we know there
27:57are people who've done it their whole
27:58lives, right? There are people who from
28:00childhood adopt a ketogenic diet in
28:02order to control their seizures or their
28:04their their epilepsy or people will do
28:06it to control their migraines. Because
28:08if there's one tissue in the body that
28:10thrives in the midst of ketones, it's
28:12the brain. you can almost throw a dart
28:15at a board that lists all of these
28:17chronic brain disorders, whether it's
28:19schizophrenia, whether it's bipolar,
28:21whether it's depression, whether it is
28:23um dementia, like Alzheimer's disease.
28:26Every one of those instances, there's
28:28evidence to show even things like
28:30multiple sclerosis. There's instance
28:32evidence to show improvements in humans
28:34with a ketogenic diet. the brain and to
28:37say that in a different way the central
28:39nervous system loves ketones.
28:43>> I'm just um looking at some of the
28:45people who watched our last conversation
28:47and who have left comments on that
28:48conversation and there's this one chap
28:50here who I'll throw up on the screen
28:52called Shanti. Um he says 35 days of
28:55keto for the first time ever started on
28:57the 2nd of January 2025. It's now the
29:008th of February and 8 kg or 17.5 lbs
29:04gone. So easy and loving my food
29:07choices. I'm having no more than 20 gram
29:09of carbs per day. I am amazed.
29:14Not felt this good since I was a
29:15teenager. Another 15 kg to go and I know
29:19I'll get there.
29:21>> Wow.
29:21>> That's roughly 37 pounds to go. So
29:23>> that's remarkable.
29:24>> It really really works.
29:25>> Well, it does work. But but I don't mean
29:27to ever, you know, neither you nor I are
29:30going to tell anyone everyone listening
29:32this is the only way to lose weight. But
29:35I think it is the most practical and
29:37simplest because the problem with so
29:40many weight loss strategies is that it
29:42puts you against your own hunger. And
29:44hunger always wins. You have to have a
29:48weight loss journey that doesn't have
29:50hunger being a constant feature. Because
29:53if you're imagining this long walk to
29:55shrinking my fat cells to what this guy
29:56wanted of almost 35 total pounds, I
29:58think is what he's going for. If you're
30:00carrying hunger, it's like it's like a
30:03bag. It's like luggage that you're
30:05dragging along on this journey. The
30:06chains that you're dragging that are
30:08going to make it almost impossible for
30:10you to get there.
30:11>> This sounds almost counterintuitive
30:12because when people hear that you're not
30:14going to have sugar, they assume that
30:16you're therefore going to have loads of
30:17cravings for it. Mhm.
30:19>> But the remarkable thing I discovered
30:20the first time I went on a low carb/
30:23keto diet is I was walking through this
30:25mall in Cape Town where where um I live
30:27sometimes and I saw this concession
30:30stand for like cinnamon rolls.
30:33>> And I thought to myself like I've not
30:35had sugar for, you know, I've not had a
30:36high sugar diet now for a couple of
30:38weeks. I'll just go look at it and see
30:39how I feel. And I walked over and looked
30:41down at it at a food I would absolutely
30:43love and my mouth would water just
30:44thinking about it. I looked down at it
30:46and I had the emotional
30:49urge to buy one was completely gone. And
30:53it's hard to explain.
30:55>> It's hard to explain.
30:56>> Yeah. You you were able to just look at
30:57it and shrug your shoulders.
30:59>> I felt nothing.
30:59>> Yeah. Yeah.
31:00>> And I was and I was really I I found
31:02that really fascinating that I had no
31:03urge, no craving, no desire to buy the
31:05cinnamon roll
31:06>> and it had vanished.
31:07>> Well, this is this is one of the things
31:08where I think the future of as ketone
31:10research in humans continues to evolve.
31:13I there is already evidence showing
31:16profound you can use a ketogenic diet to
31:18help people with eating disorders. This
31:20these are there are published case
31:21studies on this and I think a part of it
31:24is when the brain is so nourished and
31:26consistently nourished
31:28>> by ketones
31:28>> by ketones the brain reaches this new
31:31level of of indifference to what it
31:33knows might be harmful and and that's in
31:36the midst of that answer I have that's
31:37kind of loaded where if you're on a
31:39ketogenic diet the beauty is fuel is
31:42stable ketones are stable even glucose
31:46is stable you're avoiding the massive um
31:49volatility of of glucose. And as much as
31:52so much of of the glucose centric view
31:56is only worried about the high glucose,
31:58high glucose is harmful that it can
32:01induce the glycation of molecules
32:02throughout the body where the glucose is
32:04literally binding things and and
32:06disrupting their function, proteins,
32:08fats. So glucose is harmful, but so too
32:11is the volatility of the glucose where
32:13it's really high, then it's really low,
32:14and then it's really high again. That is
32:17a roller coaster of energy for the brain
32:19where it's you're force-feeding the
32:20brain all this glucose and now you're
32:22depriving it. It's like it's like a form
32:24of abuse on the brain. But when it's a
32:26ketogenic diet, it is stable, consistent
32:30energy. And so it's not surprising to me
32:32that people find they're able to resist
32:34cravings better because the brain is
32:35able to say to the rest of the body,
32:37"No, we don't need that. We're doing
32:39fine. We got energy."
32:41>> What about the heart?
32:43>> Oh my gosh, that's a brilliant question.
32:45So, I would say the brain is number one
32:48tissue that thrives on ketones and I'd
32:50put actually put the heart as number
32:51two. There is a lot of great research. I
32:54would refer people to Gary Lope's work
32:56and others that I just don't know
32:57personally, but I know him. He's at the
32:59University of um Alberta in Edmonton. um
33:02and he has found and others so I'm going
33:05to synthesize their work collectively
33:09that when a person's experiencing heart
33:11failure it's it's a combination of
33:13variables where the heart may not be
33:14able to contract well enough to eject
33:17the blood it has to work a lot harder
33:19for every pump in that case they they
33:23have found that the the heart will shift
33:25its fuel to start relying on ketones to
33:28improve its function but there was a
33:30paper just published this here looking
33:33at a different form of beta
33:34hydroxybutyrate which is the main
33:36ketone. Whenever I've been saying
33:37ketone, I've been thinking of the
33:39molecule beta hydroxybutyrate. When the
33:41liver makes BHB or beta hydroxybutyrate,
33:45it actually comes in two forms that are
33:47mirror opposites of each other in
33:49structure. So the way they're built,
33:51it's referred to as DBHB or LBH. So in
33:55heart failure, the heart muscle itself
33:58like the brain starts relying a lot on
34:00DBHB as its fuel. Then you would say
34:03that begs the question, well what about
34:04the L? This paper that was just found
34:07used a pig heart model which is actually
34:09shockingly close to human anatomy. So
34:11it's a pretty good um corlary here. They
34:14found that with LBH infused into the
34:16cardiovascular system of the pigs,
34:18>> which is ketones,
34:19>> which is a different form of the ketone
34:20that the liver makes. Yeah. So the liver
34:22is making two types of BHB, DBHB and
34:24LBHB.
34:26>> And when they profused the
34:27cardiovascular system with LBH, they
34:30found that the what's called ejection
34:32fraction, so the amount of blood coming
34:35out of the left ventricle, which is the
34:37part of the heart that's beating blood
34:39everywhere. So with LBH, they found that
34:42the heart was able to eject 40% more
34:45blood for every beat. But now you would
34:47say, well, it's just because you're
34:49making the heart work harder. No, it was
34:51not at all an effect of the heart
34:53itself. It was because all of the great
34:55arteries like the aorta, right out of
34:58the left ventricle will come the aorta,
35:00which is the main avenue for moving
35:02blood everywhere. The aorta expanded and
35:06all of the great vessels enlarged so
35:08much that the heart was now able to beat
35:10out 40% more blood with every single
35:12beat. So when it comes to someone with
35:14heart failure, I think they are among
35:18the most they should be among the most
35:20interested in testing out the effects of
35:22ketones. Uh even as a personal note, I
35:26am I tend to be kind of high anxiety,
35:28high performance sort of I'm always
35:31thinking of something. No surprise that
35:33I tend and I don't sleep particularly
35:35great and so no surprise that I
35:37sometimes have higher blood pressure. I
35:40one time measured my blood pressure on a
35:42random I went into my dentist and the
35:43dentist has now started measuring blood
35:45pressure. It was 139
35:48over 90ome and I had never been that
35:50high. I couldn't believe it. I'm such a
35:52healthy bloke. How on earth is my blood
35:54pressure this high? And I thought, well,
35:56I'm kind of sleepd deprived. I've had
35:57maybe a little too much caffeine that
35:59morning or whatever. But it was a
36:01concern. And over the next few days, my
36:03blood pressure continued to be higher
36:05than it had ever been. And of course,
36:07I'm getting old enough that I think
36:08these things start to matter. I took a
36:11shot of as an experiment, seeing this
36:14paper that was had just been published
36:15in 2025. I took a few grams worth of
36:19LBH. I drank it and within about an
36:22hour, my blood pressure was like 110
36:25over 70. So, it had this. Now, that's
36:28anecdotal. It's an N of one. Maybe I
36:30just calmed down enough, but I saw an
36:34almost immediate reduction in my blood
36:36pressure. And it could be because of
36:38what they found, which is that all of
36:40the vessels that the heart is beating
36:42into, they expanded. And so every with
36:45every beat of the heart, the heart was
36:47able to eject more blood. And the and
36:49the the wider a blood vessel gets, of
36:50course, the lower the pressure is. And
36:53so that's that could be the mechanism
36:54that explains in my case why my blood
36:56pressure got fixed so quickly. How did
36:58you drink that?
37:00>> Yeah. Yeah. So, there are a few
37:01different ways. As much as we've been
37:03focusing on uh endogenous ketones. So,
37:06I'm pointing to my liver, but here's the
37:07liver. So, when a person is in a
37:09ketogenic state, they're making their
37:11own ketones, we would use the word
37:13endogenous ketogenesis or they're making
37:16ketones in their own body. But it's no
37:19surprise that the benefits of ketones
37:21are getting so extensive that now there
37:24are companies um that are enterprising
37:27individuals that are finding ways to get
37:28into ketosis without having the rigor of
37:31a ketogenic diet. And so you can drink
37:33ketones. And that comes in a few
37:35different forms. Of course, the form I'm
37:37talking about is just straight BHB in in
37:41its two in its two versions. You can get
37:43it in either version, DBHB or LBH.
37:48So, that's just you consuming it in the
37:49way your liver makes it.
37:51>> If you looked in my kitchen cupboard
37:52over there, you'd probably see, frankly,
37:54about 100 different ketone products.
37:56[laughter] Um, obviously, some of them
37:57are the same, but there's like 100
37:58different units of ketone products. And
38:00here is my ketone reader, which is where
38:03I pick prick my finger frequently.
38:05>> In fact, you'll be delighted um once you
38:07get one. Nowadays, they make them
38:09attachable.
38:10>> Really?
38:11>> Yeah. So ketones are so easy to measure,
38:13not unlike glucose, that just like
38:15people have continuous glucose monitors
38:17now in Europe, you can get continuous
38:19ketone monitors
38:20>> from where?
38:21>> Next time you're in the UK, get them.
38:22You can't get them here yet. They're not
38:24FDA approved, but there was a company
38:25out of Germany um that sent me one uh
38:28called Sai Bio, Si Bio, and you can just
38:31strap it on and look at your phone and
38:32it's giving you continuous readings.
38:34>> Damn.
38:35>> Yeah, it's very very
38:36>> That is incredible. I'm literally going
38:37to buy that ASAP. Um, but before I get
38:41that, I've been using this little ketone
38:43reader here.
38:44>> Yep.
38:44>> Which I have no affiliation to at all.
38:46Um, and pricking my finger every single
38:47day to see my ketone levels when I'm in
38:49a in a ketogenic state.
38:51>> You talked about exogenous ketones
38:52there. I have a bunch of different
38:54exogenous ketone products here. I know
38:56some people use ketone salts.
38:57>> Yep.
38:58>> I have two different ketone brands here.
39:02>> Yes. Yeah. So, there are there are
39:04different forms. You have two different
39:06forms here. and you mentioned one that
39:07that ought to be described because that
39:09actually is the type of ketone I was
39:10just talking about. So ketone IQ is a
39:12ketone precursor where it's a molecule
39:15called 13b butane dial that will come to
39:17the liver then the liver will metabolize
39:19it um to to a large degree into BHB the
39:23main ketone that we're talking about and
39:25that is the ketone that people want. Um
39:28then the other one, this is an esther.
39:30What's an esther bond is a molecule that
39:33has a a a chemical bond that is broken
39:36when you eat it uh through enzymes. So
39:39you digest that where it's one part BHB,
39:42the straight real ketone, and then it's
39:44one part 13 butane dial, which is the
39:46same precursor, the ketone precursor and
39:48ketone IQ. And so those are two of the
39:51three forms, well maybe four forms. And
39:54then the other two are straight BHB
39:57where it's either a BHB salt where the
39:59BHB molecule is bound to a sodium or a
40:02calcium or a potassium. And you can buy
40:05those in the D or the L form or nowadays
40:09it's the straight acid what's called a
40:12BHB acid where it doesn't have any of
40:14the electrolytes in it where it's you
40:15can get that's what I was referring to a
40:17moment ago when I lowered my blood
40:18pressure. I took the straight a straight
40:21shot of L BHB and you can get that in D
40:24and L forms as well.
40:26>> Okay. So, I've just taken a shot of
40:27Keton IQ.
40:28>> Yeah. So, that's one3 butane dial and
40:30you taste it. Um, right. It has a
40:32particular kind of kick because it's a
40:33it's an alcohol molecule that you know,
40:35you feel it like it it's sort of like
40:37taking a little shot, but your liver
40:39will take that in and then over the next
40:41couple hours it will start converting it
40:43to varying degrees into BHB. And what
40:46I'm going to do is I'm going to quickly
40:49do my blood ketone levels now and we
40:51will see if in 10 minutes time, let's do
40:5510 20 minutes time, there are ketones
40:57flowing in my blood. So I've pricricked
40:59my finger. I've put a little bit of
41:01blood on this little ketone sensor here
41:03and it says that my blood ketone levels
41:05are currently 0.3.
41:07>> Yep.
41:07>> Yeah.
41:07>> So can you describe for me now that I've
41:09just have had a shot of Ketone IQ, which
41:10by the way I am affiliated with. I have
41:12um I'm an investor in the company. Um
41:14[snorts]
41:15but that's why I brought a variety of
41:16different brands. Yeah.
41:17>> Um can you tell me what's going on
41:19inside my body now that I've just had
41:20one shot of that?
41:21>> Yes. Yes. So now your body is taking in
41:24that main molecule of ketone IQ which is
41:26called 13 butane dol and it's going to
41:29get absorbed from your guts into your
41:31blood and then from your guts it's going
41:33to go to your liver and then the liver
41:35will pull in that molecule and rearrange
41:38it into BHB and then and then release
41:41that into the into the blood
41:42>> which is ketones
41:43>> which is key it will turn it into BHB
41:45the ketone. Yep. And now again there are
41:47different forms that you can take
41:49whether it's the straight 13b butane
41:50dial or whether it's an esther
41:52>> and what's happening from there. So it's
41:54now in my blood. What's happening then?
41:56>> Yeah. So now once the BHB is in the
41:58blood it um anytime BHB is in the blood
42:01it is both fuel and a signaling
42:04molecule. And that last part is often
42:06overlooked. We've been over the course
42:08of this discussion talking a lot about
42:10or I've been referring to the fact that
42:12it's a fuel for any any cell with
42:15mitochondria,
42:17which is everything but red blood cells.
42:18Red blood cells are the only cells with
42:20no mitochondria. But every other cell of
42:23the body will take in BHB, the main
42:25ketone, and use it for fuel. Every
42:28single cell of the body, and do so
42:30gladly. the and it's important to
42:32compare the BHB the ketone against
42:34glucose in many of the biggest tissues
42:37of the body like the muscle or the fat
42:38or even the heart glucose can't just
42:41come in it needs an escort if you will
42:44or it needs permission and that's
42:45insulin so there's this regulating step
42:48there's this this checkpoint where
42:50insulin can say all right you can come
42:52in or not because I'm insulin resistant
42:54or there's not enough insulin or
42:56whatever ketones have no such regulation
42:59they just come in if the cell has mito
43:00mitochondria, the ketones going in. So
43:02that's one effect where the ketone is
43:04metabolized as a fuel giving the cell
43:06literal energy. Number two is the fact
43:10that the BHB can bind to the cell and
43:13there are receptors on cells that will
43:16sense the BHB then the BHB will tell it
43:18to do something.
43:19>> The ketone.
43:20>> Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's which is really
43:22really unique where you have something
43:23that is both a calorie source an energy
43:25source and it acts like a hormone where
43:28it tells cells that's the signaling
43:30effect where it tells cells to to do
43:33something like a moment ago I'd
43:35mentioned how LBH is capable of
43:38expanding the great blood vessels in the
43:40body well in that regard it's acting as
43:43a signaling molecule and increasing the
43:46production of nitric oxide which is a
43:48great visodilator. All these guys that
43:50are taking nitric oxide drugs like
43:52Seialis for whether it's erectile
43:54function or nowadays guys are taking it
43:56to have better blood flow and perform in
43:58the gym and have a better workout. Well,
44:01LBHB might be kind of the way forward
44:03where if you can signal something else
44:06but get the same effect without the
44:08consequences or the side effects that
44:10you get from seialis then that might be
44:12one of the strategies and use of LBH in
44:15the future. So, that's been about 5 or
44:1710 minutes and my blood ketone levels
44:18are now at 0.5. Um, and they're
44:20continuing to climb just from one shot
44:22of Keton IQ. Some people ask me about
44:25sex differences in the ketogenic diet or
44:28a low carb diet generally.
44:29>> Some people are concerned that low carb
44:32diets or ketogenic diets are especially
44:35useful for men but might have a
44:37different set of complications for
44:39women. And we did have a female expert
44:42debate on the show where I asked about
44:44the ketogenic diet for women and the
44:46sort of consensus was that it should be
44:48treated differently for women.
44:51>> Yeah. Yeah. I app I remember I I tuned
44:54into that and I respect it tremendously.
44:56I I really appreciate the view that a
44:59lot of these gals have advocated for
45:01which is that women are not just small
45:03men. The differences between male and
45:05female of course are enormous. Um that
45:07doesn't mean there are differences in
45:09everything. So women are [clears throat]
45:12very unique when it comes to hormones.
45:14They women experience a rhythm of
45:16hormones that there is no equivalent in
45:18men because of the the reproductive
45:21burden if you will or responsibility
45:23that a woman has where she will see
45:25changes in hormones that can reach
45:27thousands of times differences like
45:29progesterone levels can change by a
45:30thousand times over the course of the
45:32ovarian cycle. Estrogen levels will
45:34change by multiples. men just don't have
45:37that kind of volatility. Those female
45:39sex hormones do influence metabolism,
45:42but then it matters tremendously which
45:44um phase she is in of her ovarian cycle.
45:47So if she is in the the first follicular
45:49phase, which is a low progesterone,
45:52higher estrogen state,
45:53>> what's the first follicular phase?
45:55>> Yeah. So in the in if you look at the
45:56female fertility phase, um it is like a
45:59200piece orchestra. It is so dynamic.
46:02Whereas men's fertility is like a
46:03barberhop quartet. It sounds nice, but
46:05it's very simple. So, in the first phase
46:08leading up, so she's just had her
46:10menration end, now she's starting the
46:12beginning of a new cycle. That first
46:14phase is called the follicular phase,
46:16which is when her ovaries are having
46:18some follicles or a future a little egg
46:21getting bigger. One will end up becoming
46:22the dominant one, but that is creeping
46:25in higher higher levels of estrogen. And
46:28then she will ovulate with at with the
46:31ovulation that what was a follicle in
46:33her ovary now becomes what's called a
46:35yellow body or a corpus ludium. And so
46:38it's called the ludial phase and that is
46:40defined by very high progesterone and
46:42progesterone changes things. So where I
46:45think the conversation in women is very
46:47relevant and fascinating is that in the
46:49first phase in her follicular phase she
46:52is a fat burning machine. You can
46:54measure she will get into ketosis faster
46:56than her male counterpart and she's
46:58burning more fat than her male
47:00counterpart. In fact, this is one of the
47:01few clinical values where there's a male
47:04version and a female version. This isn't
47:06very common. Many of the typical
47:09metabolic type markers, whether it's
47:10glucose or insulin, triglycerides, LDL,
47:13cholesterol, they're the same across the
47:14sexes with the exception of free fatty
47:17acids. So earlier I had mentioned that
47:19when insulin is low the li the fat cell
47:22is breaking down fat. It's breaking down
47:25that fat as free fatty acids. So the
47:27free fatty acids in a woman are about 40
47:30or 50% higher than in a man
47:32>> during that first phase.
47:34>> Yes. Especially during the first phase
47:35and that's because she's burning more
47:37fat and that helps her get into ketosis
47:39faster. So if you this has been shown in
47:42studies take a male and female have them
47:44start a fast she will get into ketosis
47:46faster than him.
47:48Now during during
47:50>> just during that phase or
47:51>> especially during the phase yeah I I
47:53don't know that they compared and
47:55controlled for the ludial phase but it's
47:57worth noting where I think um fasting
48:00and ketogenic diets start to change.
48:04So it'll keep going up. Yeah.
48:05>> So just another reading point8.
48:08>> Yep.
48:08>> Is ketosis considered what.5?
48:11>> Technically, but frankly I actually call
48:13it ketosis at.3. the moment you can
48:16detect it on one of those blood meters
48:17that I'd say you're in ketosis and I
48:19think 0.3 is the lower limit. So 0.5 is
48:21a little bit of an arbitrary cut off but
48:23that is the classic view. Um, so in in
48:27that in that ludal phase with high
48:29progesterone, progesterone is a hunger
48:30hormone. And so if she's trying to do a
48:32fasting protocol during and her cravings
48:35are going to be higher and her uh she's
48:38going to be hungrier. And so that's
48:39where I think the conversation's very
48:41important is that during her ludal phase
48:44after she has ovulated,
48:47it's going to be harder to stick to a
48:48ketogenic diet. And that's where I think
48:50it might be prudent for her to be a
48:52little generous with herself. um where
48:55uh it might get a little more difficult.
48:57Now, however, some of the concern with
49:00women and ketogenic diets is misplaced.
49:02And I would be remiss if I didn't
49:04mention a study that answered this
49:05question very well in with regards to
49:07cortisol. In fact, I'll state this now.
49:10I already chatted with the team. I would
49:13love to see you bring on a scientist in
49:15the UK named Dr. Isabella Cooper. She
49:18has published a series of studies in
49:20women that are fascinating because of
49:23the the intervention that she's done.
49:25She's taken women who had been adhering
49:28to a ketogenic diet as part of their
49:30normal life. Then for 21 days they have
49:33to adopt the typical high carb diet of
49:35the standard UK guidelines similar to
49:36the US about 55% carbohydrate decidedly
49:40not ketogenic for 21 days. So more than
49:43long enough to detect changes and then
49:46they go back to their diet for 21 days
49:48and they have blood tests again. And so
49:50these are healthy women who go from a
49:52ketogenic diet to a high carb diet back
49:55to a ketogenic diet. And when they
49:57looked at cortisol, when Isabella and
49:59her group measured cortisol levels, no
50:01statistically significant change at any
50:03point. There was just noise and no
50:06trend. Some gals had their cortisol go
50:09down. Some had them go up. But as a
50:11group there was it was just a big messy
50:14flat line.
50:15>> And what does that mean?
50:16>> That takes a lot of wind out of the
50:17sales of of people who say that a
50:21ketogenic diet is a unique stress on
50:23women because people want to invoke and
50:25they'll say, "Well, cortisol goes
50:26through the roof and that's sign of a
50:28significant stress." And yet Isabella's
50:30own data show that cortisol levels
50:33aren't different. that there is no
50:35unique cortisol related stress state of
50:38a ketogenic diet. So I think it's
50:39relevant because it just brings a little
50:41nuance to the conversation. Not to say
50:43men and women are not different. They
50:45absolutely are. But I do believe the the
50:49view that a ketogenic diet is uniquely
50:51stressful in in women but not men, I
50:54think is uh overblown. And and again,
50:57I'm relying on Isabella's own data to
50:58support that. So, coming into 2026 and I
51:02want 2026 to be the year where I finally
51:05get a grip of my health, where I finally
51:07become the person that I know deep down
51:10I could be and I desperately do want to
51:12be. And I asked you, Dr. Ben,
51:15>> to make me a plan,
51:17>> the perfect plan, the perfect diet. I
51:20know everyone's different, so we're
51:20gonna have you gonna have to play with
51:22me here a little bit, but
51:23>> the perfect plan for 2026,
51:27>> what would you prescribe as a diet,
51:30lifestyle choices? Okay. And I'm going
51:32to write it down.
51:33>> Yeah. Yeah. So I would um at the risk of
51:36sounding too self-absorbed
51:38uh I this is I'll kind of describe my
51:41own approach as a metabolic scientist
51:43but please everyone listening appreciate
51:45that I will I'm inserting my own
51:46constraints because my approach is kind
51:49of that of a guy who knows a lot but is
51:52also constrained by my demands in life
51:54but I think a lot of people fit into
51:56that category. So Stephen if you want to
51:59look like a freckled bald wrinkled man
52:01this is what you can do. All right. So,
52:03first of all, zero to little to no carbs
52:07for um breakfast and lunch.
52:09>> Okay. Little to no carbs for breakfast
52:11and lunch. Carbs for breakfast and
52:13lunch.
52:13>> Yep. You wake up in the morning. Anyone
52:15who's wearing a continuous glucose
52:17monitor will find that their glucose
52:18levels naturally rise in the morning and
52:21that coincides with a mild state of
52:23insulin resistance every morning because
52:24of changes in cortisol and other
52:26hormones. So my view is don't doubly
52:30load to the glucose that's already
52:31happening by eating in the morning with
52:33starchy sugary stuff. So be very strict
52:36with all of your meals up until dinner.
52:39>> So just on point one so I'm clear.
52:40You're saying no carbs but is there
52:42anything that I should be having?
52:44>> Yeah. So any if a person wants to as
52:46much protein and fat as they'd like and
52:48I would say especially for lunch, let
52:50lunch be your biggest meal.
52:52>> Okay. So let's go through those three
52:53points. Yeah.
52:54>> Um why as much protein as I can. Yeah.
52:57Protein and fat.
52:58>> Okay. Why?
52:59>> Yeah. Because they won't have an insulin
53:01effect. And that's the key. Like my
53:03approach to staying lean at 50 years old
53:05and having my wife like what she sees is
53:08keeping my insulin low and and still not
53:11being hungry all the time. And so
53:13protein and fat are the two
53:14macronutrients with carbohydrates being
53:16the third. But protein and fat have
53:18little to no effect on insulin. Fat has
53:20none and protein may have a modest
53:22effect depending on some other
53:24variables. So you want to keep insulin
53:26low.
53:26>> So what would would that breakfast look
53:28like?
53:28>> So for me, I actually don't eat
53:29breakfast. Uh and and again, this plays
53:32into I'm extremely mindful of my family.
53:34So that's going to come back again when
53:36we get to dinner because we've left that
53:37meal untouched for now.
53:39>> In the morning, I make breakfast for my
53:41kids every morning. Uh and it's
53:43something I remember from my childhood
53:45being raised by my dad and he every
53:47morning it was just structured. And I
53:50think all of my siblings and I have
53:51thrived in life in part because of the
53:54structure we had at the beginning of
53:55every day where we would all eat
53:57breakfast together. We would read
53:59scriptures very briefly. We'd have a
54:00family prayer very briefly and just
54:02review the day. And I think that was my
54:04dad's way of kind of surviving with so
54:05many kids just to sort of check in with
54:08everyone.
54:08>> You had nine siblings.
54:09>> Yeah. Yeah. There's nine of us. Yeah. Uh
54:11and so we have uh I I'm very big on
54:14that. So breakfast is dad's domain and
54:16my wife cheers me on. Um, so I make
54:19breakfast for the kids and I am sipping
54:21on a cup of yerba mate the whole time.
54:24>> Why?
54:24>> Yeah, in part because I like the taste.
54:26There's a good GLP1 effect. So, it helps
54:29me feel a little more satiated. Um, and
54:32it's just a habit. It's a little bit of
54:33a perk, a little pickme up. I don't
54:35drink coffee. I drink yerba mate
54:36instead.
54:37>> What is herb mate?
54:38>> The brand that I get is called Una Mate.
54:40And it's a it's a leaf. It's a South
54:43American tea basically. And you can get
54:45it in any number of ways. This is just a
54:47really convenient and good way to get
54:48it. So I'm sipping on a cup of it would
54:51be someone drinking coffee or tea. I'm
54:53taking yerba mate tea. Um so I don't eat
54:55for breakfast. I find that I'm not
54:57generally hungry for breakfast anyway.
55:00And so I may as well keep my fasted
55:01state going a little longer. So that's
55:03what works for me. And then I would
55:04encourage people to have a big hearty
55:06lunch because if you have a big hearty
55:08lunch, mostly protein and fat, it makes
55:10it easier to taper off later in the day.
55:13Especially in the evening if people are
55:15noticing that they have significant
55:17cravings especially for carbs because
55:19that's the only thing anyone craves in
55:21the evening have a bigger lunch. See if
55:23that helps.
55:24>> Okay.
55:24>> And then sometime around either before
55:27or after have a good resistance workout.
55:30I have my resistance workout in the in
55:33fact Stephen I even have to go a little
55:35earlier. So, my first thing in the
55:36morning is I go on a ruck at 5:00 a.m. I
55:39have my weighted vest and these 15lb
55:42kettle bells and I hike one mile up a
55:44hill and one mile back every morning at
55:465:00 a.m. And then I get a little work
55:49done and just some personal kind of
55:50reflection and meditation time, if you
55:52will. Then the family wakes up. I'm
55:54making breakfast. The family chaos
55:55begins. I'm sipping on my yerba mate.
55:58Then I go to work. About 10:30 or 11 is
56:01the good time for me. I go down to the
56:02gym on campus and I do my very brief,
56:05very effective, I would say, um,
56:07resistance training and then I go into
56:09the sauna for 12 to 15 minutes, but in
56:12the morning I've done a little ice bath,
56:14too. I didn't mention that. I have an
56:15ice bath on my back patio, a Maroska
56:17Forge, and I love it. It is spectacular.
56:20Um, so then I do a sauna session after
56:22my workout. Then I go eat my big lunch.
56:26>> Why are you doing the ice bath in this
56:27one? Yeah. So, I do I do an ice bath in
56:30the morning because it helps me sleep
56:31better in the evening. I'm a terrible
56:33sleeper. And especially in the northern
56:35hemisphere in the winter, the sun isn't
56:36coming up till 9:00 or so, 9:00 a.m. And
56:40by shocking my body, I get this jolt.
56:44And I think it just helps get my clock
56:46ticking. And so, by the time evening
56:48rolls around, I'm tired and I'm ready
56:50for bed.
56:51>> Okay, I'm just doing my ketone test to
56:53see where it is. We're probably about 30
56:55minutes off me taking that ketone shot.
56:57We'll continue with your day in just two
56:58sec. And I'm now at 0.9.
57:02>> It'll keep going. Yep. Yep. So, you were
57:0408 0.9. Next one will be one, but it
57:07looks like it's starting to curve a
57:08little bit,
57:08>> which isn't surprising. You went up
57:10pretty quick and then it's going to
57:11curve for a bit.
57:12>> And what's going on in my body right now
57:14that I have 0.9
57:16>> K? Yes. So, that is a unit of
57:17measurement called the mill moles. And
57:19so, it's looking at the number of
57:21molecules basically in a given amount of
57:23of your blood. And so you took in that
57:25ketone precursor, the liver converted
57:28it. It's just continuing to convert it
57:29into BHB.
57:30>> BHB being ketones.
57:32>> BHB being the main ketone. Yep.
57:34>> Okay. Yep.
57:34>> And that's making me
57:36>> Well, it's going to make you sharp.
57:37Okay.
57:37>> So, your brain is now using those
57:39ketones. Your heart would be using the
57:40ketones. Um, and your reliance on
57:43glucose as a fuel for your brain and
57:45your heart would be going down.
57:47>> Wouldn't my hunger be going down?
57:48>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
57:49>> So, I'm going to be less hungry. But
57:50also the benefits of BHB in the brain
57:52are are myriad where it's been shown to
57:55be an anxolytic. So it can control
57:58anxiety. Uh it can control it can
58:00improve depression. It can help with
58:02attention,
58:03>> memory. I
58:04>> memory. Oh, certainly with cognition.
58:05Yes.
58:06>> I've read I read about the studies on
58:07dementia patients that
58:08>> Yes. That is it is incredibly we're
58:10entering a kind of dawning of an era of
58:12ketone research where the number of NIH
58:16and NSF funded ketone related projects
58:18is
58:20wonderful. It's thrilling to see where
58:22it's going to be a wonderful decade of a
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59:30>> So let's go back to the perfect day, the
59:32perfect, the perfect lifestyle for 2026.
59:34So then do my resistance training at
59:36some point after I've had my breakfasts.
59:39>> Well, yes. So whatever for me, I I do
59:42body weight based exercises. So, I don't
59:43like having a big belly of food. And so,
59:46being in a fasted state, my view on
59:48exercising, even that's a debate. Do you
59:50exercise fasted or do you exercise with
59:52fuel? Um, like you take a bunch of carbs
59:54and stuff. My view is it's dependent on
59:56what your goal is. As a middle-aged guy,
1:00:00my goal is not performance. It's not
1:00:03going out and sprinting and showing
1:00:05power. It's to live a long healthy life.
1:00:07And so, it's a more metabolic focus. If
1:00:10your if your interest is metabolic, then
1:00:12I think fasting fa exercising in a
1:00:14fasted state is very smart. If your goal
1:00:18of the exercise is performance, like
1:00:19you're a collegiate athlete or you are,
1:00:22you know, you're an elite rugby player
1:00:23or something, okay, then don't exercise
1:00:26fasted. Take some fuel before you go
1:00:28work out. So for me, I've done my early
1:00:32morning ruck, my personal kind of
1:00:34reflection time, ice bath, yerba mate,
1:00:37and then my midm morning workout.
1:00:39>> Just on that point of exercising fasted,
1:00:42>> why is that better if your goals are
1:00:45longevity and health,
1:00:46>> right? Because it's just going to help
1:00:48you continue to burn fat and improve
1:00:51maintain your insulin sensitivity.
1:00:53>> Okay, fine. So, I have my midm morning
1:00:55workout, then I have a nice big lunch,
1:00:57then I have my afternoon productivity,
1:00:59and then I get to dinner, and dinner is
1:01:02the main social meal within my home. Um,
1:01:05and so I have dinner with my family. And
1:01:07that is carb lunch. Whatever the
1:01:09family's eating, I'm eating. I have I
1:01:11have daughters and as a college
1:01:13professor I've seen enough young women
1:01:14struggle with eating disorders that I
1:01:17always worried would my incessant
1:01:20talking about diet somehow stimulate
1:01:22eating disorders and I've never wanted
1:01:24to become obsessive about it and so I
1:01:27have dinner with my family whatever it
1:01:29is if it's pizza I'm having pizza if
1:01:31it's pasta I'm having pasta um now my
1:01:33wife happens to see things kind of the
1:01:35way I do so it's usually meat and
1:01:38vegetables in in some mix and and that's
1:01:42my dinner and then ideally
1:01:44I'm done.
1:01:46>> What time are you having that dinner?
1:01:47>> Yeah, that's about five or six.
1:01:50>> And you you avoid eating late.
1:01:52>> Oh yes. In fact, I would submit Stephen,
1:01:55if we were to look at any one thing
1:01:57someone could do, I would say anyone who
1:02:01says, "Ben, what is the one thing?" If
1:02:03I'm putting a question in your mouth,
1:02:04I'd say stop snacking in the evening.
1:02:06Anything you can do to not overeat and
1:02:09go to bed hypoglycemic or elevated or
1:02:12spike your blood glucose levels, do it.
1:02:14>> Why?
1:02:14>> That's when people at their weakest.
1:02:17People, you and I could be hanging out
1:02:18all day walking past a plate of cookies
1:02:21and not be tempted at all until 7 or
1:02:238:00 p.m. It's just human nature. And
1:02:26yet that is one of the worst times to
1:02:28eat it because when you go to bed
1:02:29hypoglycemic, it activates a part of the
1:02:32nervous system, an aspect of the nervous
1:02:34system called the sympathetic nervous
1:02:36system. That's also known as the fight
1:02:38orflight. So when someone we hear a car
1:02:42crash right nearby or we hear a gunshot,
1:02:45then our immediately our heart starts
1:02:47beating faster and harder. Our body
1:02:49temperature climbs and we're stimulated.
1:02:52hypoglycemia will have that effect. And
1:02:55that is terrible timing because when
1:02:57you're going to bed, you're wanting to
1:02:58rely on your what's called your
1:03:00parasympathetic nervous system. The part
1:03:02of your the aspect of your nervous
1:03:04system that is calming, it's lowering
1:03:06your heart rate. It's slowing your
1:03:08heart. It's lowering your blood
1:03:09pressure. It's helping you calm down to
1:03:11sleep better. Hypoglycemia
1:03:14throws that into opposites. So then
1:03:16you're going to bed, you're lying there
1:03:18wondering why your heart is beating so
1:03:20hard, why you are so hot and
1:03:23uncomfortable, and it's because you just
1:03:25spiked your blood glucose with a bunch
1:03:27of sugar.
1:03:28>> Is there anything else?
1:03:30Is [snorts] there, you know, for people
1:03:31that are focused on that 2026 goal of
1:03:33finally becoming the person that they
1:03:35know they can become, is there anything
1:03:37else you would say to them? Is there
1:03:38[clears throat] any tools they need to
1:03:39buy? Is there any other tricks or
1:03:41tactics or hacks?
1:03:42>> Yeah. Yeah, I do think that they could
1:03:44if they were adopting this diet, it's
1:03:46definitely going to put them into
1:03:48ketosis. That can take a little time to
1:03:50adjust. So, very relevant to our earlier
1:03:53conversation. I do think exogenous
1:03:54ketones can help a person transition
1:03:58into relying on a ketogenic diet more
1:04:00readily. And anytime a person's losing
1:04:04weight, they run the risk of losing some
1:04:06lean mass at the same time. And we, my
1:04:09lab just published a paper about two
1:04:11weeks ago at the time we're filming
1:04:13this, finding that in humans in a weight
1:04:15loss protocol, if they were drinking BHB
1:04:18or exogenous ketones, they were able to
1:04:21retain more muscle mass, more lean mass
1:04:23in the midst of the weight loss. So,
1:04:25there could be some strategies like
1:04:26that. But I would also add that there
1:04:29are some non um physical ones as well.
1:04:32If someone's trying to say, I'm going to
1:04:34be the best version of myself, then
1:04:36start reading more, too. Read more
1:04:38books. You'll be the best. You'll be an
1:04:41even better version as you're losing
1:04:42weight. Um, and your brain is firing on
1:04:44more cylinders than ever before as it's
1:04:46fueled with ketones. Challenge your
1:04:49brain. You had mentioned dementia
1:04:51earlier. Ketones are a therapy for
1:04:53dementia, but so too is challenging your
1:04:55brain in the form of um making it learn
1:04:58new things. So, read a good book.
1:05:01>> This woman contacted me on the on
1:05:02November the 11th. When you do a
1:05:04podcast, you get lots of feedback. you
1:05:05get like tens of thousands of people
1:05:06sometimes per episode
1:05:08>> and I can imagine you looking through
1:05:09everyone finding gems.
1:05:11>> I actually funnily enough I do look at
1:05:13the comment section because it's it's a
1:05:15place where I really trust the feedback.
1:05:16So people that comment on these videos
1:05:18like I really do trust them because they
1:05:19are typically listeners. They've kind of
1:05:21been with me on this whole journey. So
1:05:22when they have feedback when they have
1:05:24you know good or bad feedback on the or
1:05:26constructive feedback we pay attention.
1:05:28>> Well Stephen I'm pleased that something
1:05:30brought me back. So the comments can't
1:05:32have been too negative. No, they were
1:05:33really I mean they were unbelievably
1:05:35positive. But I got this one from on
1:05:37LinkedIn from a lady called I'll keep
1:05:40her anonymous. Let's just call her Mrs.
1:05:42L.
1:05:43>> Okay.
1:05:43>> And Mrs. L said, "Hi, Stephen. Thank you
1:05:46for the great work you do and the
1:05:47information, insights, inspiration you
1:05:49provide. On keto, my husband lasted 8
1:05:53hours on a keto diet and was
1:05:55unconscious. It turned out he had a
1:05:58neurodine cancer called insulum."
1:06:02>> Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. a neuroendocrine
1:06:04cancer called insulinoma.
1:06:05>> I said that's exactly what I said.
1:06:06>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Did I hear a
1:06:08niner in there? Yeah. Something.
1:06:10>> And if the paramedics hadn't intercepted
1:06:12with glucose, going keto would have
1:06:15killed him.
1:06:15>> Yes. [clears throat]
1:06:15>> He's amazing. We have three children and
1:06:17he volunteers for 50
1:06:19>> more every weekend. We don't want to
1:06:22lose him.
1:06:23>> Sorry to share this sad story, but it's
1:06:25not the first time I've seen one of your
1:06:27posts or one of your guests talk about
1:06:28ketosis
1:06:30and what's worked well. And in this
1:06:32case, it was fatal for him. Yes. So, I
1:06:35hope you don't mind, but I wanted to
1:06:36share this with love, respect, and
1:06:38kindness to hopefully give food for
1:06:39thought, no pun intended, of how you
1:06:41decide to use your platform and to
1:06:44[clears throat] provide further context
1:06:45and nuance.
1:06:46>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:06:46>> What works for you and thousands of
1:06:48others might not work for everyone. I
1:06:51believe it's [clears throat] super
1:06:51important that we share this information
1:06:53and inspiration carefully and in a way
1:06:55that exemplifies a growth mindset, not a
1:06:58fixed mindset. for example, not fixed
1:07:00one diet or one way of working for
1:07:02everybody. If you read this above all
1:07:04else, please know I'm sending this with
1:07:06the utmost respect and kindness and
1:07:08hope. [clears throat] Best
1:07:09>> love it. Yeah, what a thoughtful what a
1:07:11thoughtful message.
1:07:12>> Yeah, it is very thoughtful. I
1:07:13appreciate I appreciate any kind
1:07:15communication by the way because on
1:07:17social media it is so easy just to
1:07:18become the worst version of yourself
1:07:20without fear of any consequence. So, she
1:07:22happened to describe a person who would
1:07:24probably be the the worst individual. So
1:07:27an insulinoma, she describes a
1:07:30neuroendocrine cancer. An insulinoma is
1:07:33an insulin secretreting tumor. So
1:07:35usually it's the pancreas, which for
1:07:37those watching is here. Again, imagine
1:07:40that a part of the pancreas is expanding
1:07:41with a tumor, but it's filled with cells
1:07:44that make insulin. So it's a bunch of
1:07:46beta cells, which are the cells that
1:07:48make insulin. And this is a guy who
1:07:50can't stop making insulin.
1:07:53Suffice to say, if you now cut your
1:07:56carbohydrate consumption and you're
1:07:58continuing to make tons of insulin,
1:08:00which is not normal, so this is a very
1:08:03much a disease state, and I appreciate
1:08:04her stating it as such. It's a cancer,
1:08:06it's a tumor of the pancreas. So, what
1:08:09would have happened in him, he cuts the
1:08:11gluc, he cuts his carbohydrates, but he
1:08:14can't stop making insulin. So now it's
1:08:17actually back to that diet that you and
1:08:19I that I mentioned at the beginning of
1:08:21our conversation where the people were
1:08:23eating a high carb version or a low carb
1:08:25version of a diet. When you spike
1:08:27insulin, you lower both glucose and
1:08:30ketones. And that's what happened to
1:08:32him. He would have become hypoglycemic
1:08:35and he would almost never make any
1:08:36ketones because he always has high
1:08:38insulin. M
1:08:40>> and so he would have been depriving his
1:08:41brain of its two fuels in uh lowering
1:08:44the glucose by pushing it into muscle
1:08:47and fat and blocking the liver from
1:08:49making ketones. So he's the worst person
1:08:52anyone with an insulinoma. Of course
1:08:54neither you nor I are giving any medical
1:08:56advice. Um but if a person has an
1:08:58insulinoma that's like the worst person
1:09:02to adopt a low carb diet. They have to
1:09:04eat carbs because they're always making
1:09:06insulin. They can't stop. What's
1:09:08interesting is it it appears from what
1:09:09she's written that her husband found out
1:09:12that he had this
1:09:14>> Oh, because of adopting the diet.
1:09:15>> Yeah.
1:09:16>> Oh my gosh, that's remarkable. Yeah. So,
1:09:18a person could test this early though,
1:09:20Stephen. So, just what you've been doing
1:09:22now over the past period of time by
1:09:23pricking your finger, if a person
1:09:25worried that they had an insulinoma,
1:09:27they could just on a random morning uh
1:09:30or fast for fast for 12 hours or so and
1:09:34measure your glucose. Um, if you have a
1:09:36continuous glucose monitor, even easier.
1:09:38Look at your glucose. Because in you and
1:09:40I, if we fast for 24 hours, our glucose
1:09:43levels stay normal. They just run along
1:09:46like nothing's happened. In a person
1:09:47with an insulinoma, they're getting
1:09:49lower and lower and lower and lower all
1:09:52constantly because they can't stop
1:09:54making insulin and it's always driving
1:09:56their blood glucose levels lower. So, a
1:09:59person could determine that on their
1:10:01own. This would have been a guy who
1:10:03anytime he fasted at all, he would have
1:10:04started to feel miserable
1:10:07>> cuz she says in the message, "My husband
1:10:08lasted eight hours on a keto diet and
1:10:10was unconscious. It turned out," which
1:10:12suggests that they found out
1:10:14>> and we hope the husband's doing well.
1:10:16>> Yes.
1:10:16>> Boy, an insulin is a big deal. My hope
1:10:18is that they would be able to identify
1:10:20the location of the tumor. Um, and you
1:10:23can What's cool about cancer is that
1:10:25cancer is such a sugar eater. It eats so
1:10:27much glucose that you can inject glucose
1:10:30into someone that has a little bit of
1:10:32radiation to it, not harmful, but then
1:10:35you can do an X-ray and see where does
1:10:37all the glucose go and it would be going
1:10:40to this little lump on the on the on the
1:10:42pancreas. And so hopefully they can cut
1:10:44it out.
1:10:44>> What does that say about cancer and
1:10:46sugar?
1:10:47>> Oh my. Yeah. So you I know you've had
1:10:48the authority on this. So everything I'm
1:10:50about to say is me quoting Dr. Thomas
1:10:52Seaff Freed who is he needs all the
1:10:54attention in the world as he has
1:10:56resurrected
1:10:58uh an almost 100-year-old view of cancer
1:11:01being a disease of glucose and sugar
1:11:02metabolism the Warberg effect it's
1:11:04called but Dr. Thomas Seaff Freed has
1:11:06been a champion of of bringing this view
1:11:09into the modern era by finding that
1:11:12cancer cells rely on glucose as their
1:11:14fuel primarily. He also identifies
1:11:16glutamine. But if you can deprive the
1:11:18cancer cell of its fuel, normal
1:11:20interventions even like chemotherapies
1:11:22which have terrible rates of success,
1:11:24they become suddenly much more
1:11:26effective.
1:11:29>> In fact, my part of my motivation in
1:11:31adhering to a ketogenic diet is is
1:11:33cancer related. when I my mom passed
1:11:36away from cancer as a boy and it's been
1:11:37one of those diseases that's always
1:11:39scared me a little bit and I think all
1:11:41right my statistical likelihood of
1:11:43getting a cancer in life is going to be
1:11:45higher than average because of a
1:11:46first-degree relative dying from cancer
1:11:49so one of the reasons and I've already
1:11:50outlived my my my saintly mom now one of
1:11:54the reasons I adhere to a ketogenic diet
1:11:55is I want to do what I can to try to
1:11:57kill any little budding cancer cells by
1:12:00starving them of their glucose that they
1:12:02want
1:12:02>> remember when we had him on the show
1:12:03remember the BBC obviously weren't very
1:12:04happy that I had him on and said that it
1:12:06was uh
1:12:07>> no
1:12:08>> it was misinformation.
1:12:09>> Oh my gosh, isn't that unfortunate? So
1:12:12he is the leading authority I would say
1:12:16in the world on cancer metabolism and
1:12:20it's such a shame that his finding and
1:12:23let let me he might have explained this
1:12:24already but I just want to explain to
1:12:26everyone as a scientist how thrilled I
1:12:28was to see what he'd done and how
1:12:30disruptive it was to the convention. And
1:12:32let's ad let's admit what we think we
1:12:34know about cancer isn't working. Cancer
1:12:36rates continue to climb. Cancer
1:12:38mortality continues to climb. Clearly
1:12:40the old views aren't working. He took
1:12:43tumor cells and then so cancer cells and
1:12:46then moved over the nucleus because the
1:12:49traditional view is that it's a disease
1:12:51of mutations and all of these genes are
1:12:53in the nucleus the the kind of brain of
1:12:55the cell. He took the nucleus from a
1:12:57cancer cell, put it into a healthy cell,
1:13:00and then you would think if it's a
1:13:01disease of the nucleus and all of those
1:13:03genes, mutations, this cell should have
1:13:05cancer now. And yet, it didn't. It was a
1:13:07totally normal cell. It didn't matter at
1:13:08all that it now had the nucleus of a
1:13:10cancer cell. However, when he took the
1:13:12mitochondria
1:13:14from the the energy factory of the cell
1:13:17that's so disrupted in cancer, he took
1:13:19the mitochondria from the cancer cell,
1:13:22put that into a normal cell. Now, it was
1:13:24a cancer cell.
1:13:26But what a disruptive view. It proves
1:13:28that it's a mitochondrial problem more
1:13:30than a nucleus problem. And then it
1:13:32suggests it it adds evidence to his view
1:13:35and th others of us as well that cancer
1:13:38is a metabolic problem.
1:13:39>> So when when you know publications like
1:13:42the BBC attack my guest for saying such
1:13:45a thing or for you know for me having
1:13:47them on the show and suggest that it's
1:13:48like misinformation or dangerous
1:13:49information.
1:13:50>> How how how do you inter how do you
1:13:52interpret that cuz
1:13:53>> oh it's so discouraging. Um I I
1:13:56interpret it as we've seen echoes and
1:13:59shadows of this in the past five or six
1:14:01years um with the pandemic and
1:14:03everything related to it where science
1:14:06can be very inconvenient um to
1:14:10various entities and institutions. Um
1:14:13and we see scientists who will
1:14:14compromise themselves to try to receive
1:14:17the funding and the adoration of those
1:14:20institutions and entities.
1:14:22[sighs and gasps]
1:14:23But it is anti- it is it is an attack.
1:14:26Science is a the pursuit of truth. I I I
1:14:29was blessed to do my dissertation work,
1:14:31my PhD studies with a wonderful man
1:14:33named Lionus Dome. I will love him
1:14:36forever. Um one of the things he taught
1:14:38me, I'd come to him with discouraging
1:14:40results. The hypothesis that I'd had
1:14:43with regards to fat and insulin
1:14:46resistance, it was not supporting. The
1:14:48data were terrible in this particular
1:14:50line of experiments. And he wasn't he
1:14:53was unflapable. He wasn't upset. He
1:14:55wasn't angry. He said, "Ben, don't be
1:14:57upset. That's truth. We are seekers of
1:15:00truth." That's what scientists are. What
1:15:02a glorious thing to get paid to seek
1:15:06truth. It doesn't pay that well, but it
1:15:09it's a glorious job nonetheless.
1:15:12That is what Dr. Thomas Seaf Freed is
1:15:14doing. And when I think you have a big
1:15:16entity like the BBC telling [snorts] a
1:15:18scientist who's simply stating his own
1:15:20findings that have been peer-
1:15:22reviewviewed by other experts in the
1:15:23field, it should be beyond it should be
1:15:26he should have every platform in the
1:15:28world to talk about this. Every
1:15:29scientist ought to and it ought to be
1:15:31scrutinized. Scientists should never
1:15:33think they know the truth. Even the
1:15:35declarations in the past few years of
1:15:37believe the science. No, that is
1:15:40anti-scientific.
1:15:42Science is is con a scientist must be so
1:15:45humble that he or she is constantly
1:15:47prepared to dump their hypothesis if
1:15:49they've been shown to be wrong.
1:15:51>> And I guess it's important for those
1:15:52ideas to be out there for you to even be
1:15:54able to scrutinize them and challenge
1:15:56them,
1:15:57>> especially in something like cancer
1:15:58where clearly what we're doing isn't
1:16:00working. And so let's welcome new ideas.
1:16:03And his evidence is incredibly
1:16:05compelling. It's it's so discouraging to
1:16:07hear, but but it is also Stephen perhaps
1:16:10a manifestation of a broader opposition
1:16:13to anything low carb. You just utter the
1:16:16word ketone to a dogmatic and
1:16:18conventionally trained dietician. Oh my
1:16:21gosh, you are tempting their wrath. They
1:16:25will it's it's like the more the more
1:16:28educated a person gets, the more rigid
1:16:30they become from time to time in their
1:16:32ideas. You should never see that in a
1:16:35scientist. A scientist by our by our
1:16:38through our training, we should be
1:16:40humble enough to admit that we don't
1:16:42know everything.
1:16:44>> I remember when um they contacted me,
1:16:45the journalist at the BBC, and said,
1:16:47"We're going to write the story about,
1:16:48you know, the misinformation spread by
1:16:50these guests." And I looked at what they
1:16:52had said and this and they made this
1:16:54little documentary did this article and
1:16:57they had found that 0.0
1:17:01Zero zero 1% of our total recorded hours
1:17:06of conversation and transcripts contain
1:17:09things that they thought were could be
1:17:11disputed.
1:17:12>> Oh my god.
1:17:12>> And they felt with 0.00
1:17:15one they would write this big breaking
1:17:17news story in this article. And I
1:17:18remember thinking oh like that was the
1:17:20day that I that I felt I understood.
1:17:23>> That was the day that I felt I
1:17:24understood how the system works.
1:17:26>> You could you peaked behind the curtain.
1:17:27I got to see behind the curtain and I
1:17:29was like, "Oh, I thought,
1:17:30>> you know, I thought that um these like
1:17:33cuz it's like a big brand and I've grown
1:17:34up looking at it. I thought like they
1:17:35are so concerned about rigor and the
1:17:39most important thing and balance." And I
1:17:41said to the I said to the journalist, I
1:17:42said um of what you found 0.001
1:17:46because they said you've got a right to
1:17:47reply. So that was my reply.
1:17:49>> They
1:17:49>> and of course they wouldn't have
1:17:50published that.
1:17:51>> They took it out. They took my response
1:17:52out because it was too d it was too like
1:17:55you know. Yep. And then obviously the
1:17:56other thing they pointed at another
1:17:58guest that I'd had on and said, you
1:18:00know, you also had this person on and I
1:18:03so I went on I just typed his name in
1:18:04and the word BBC and they'd had him on
1:18:06too.
1:18:07>> Oh my god.
1:18:07>> And in fact, when he had came on this
1:18:09particular doctor and he had said his
1:18:11points of views, the journalist at the
1:18:12BBC had just basically said nothing and
1:18:15that was the end of the segment. When he
1:18:17said it to me,
1:18:18>> then all of a sudden it's a problem.
1:18:19>> No, I read out the rebuttal from the
1:18:22British Heart Foundation. I read out all
1:18:23of the rebuttals to what he just said,
1:18:26but of course the BBC published this
1:18:28article saying that I'd had him on. They
1:18:29had had him on too. They' never
1:18:30rebuttled him. I did. And they and so
1:18:32this was the moment that I thought
1:18:33>> you're becoming disruptive. To be
1:18:35honest, I suspect a part of it is you
1:18:38are the embodiment of a new media. You
1:18:41know, I I think even beyond the science.
1:18:44So if this had been in the US, I would
1:18:46have speculated that a part of the their
1:18:48concern would have been that you are
1:18:49sharing, you're platforming someone who
1:18:51is bad for their bottom line because so
1:18:53much of the income that nudes that media
1:18:57outlets get in the US is from drug
1:18:59company ads. In the UK, you don't have
1:19:01that. Drug companies don't um aren't I
1:19:04don't think they're allowed to air ads
1:19:06on normal channels. In the UK, I think
1:19:10is to a degree happening everywhere.
1:19:12your platform is probably bigger than
1:19:14many of theirs and they might feel
1:19:16that's threatening.
1:19:17>> It's interesting because I try and
1:19:19remain as objective as I can. So in
1:19:20those moments, one of my strategies is
1:19:22to try and understand what the signal is
1:19:24versus the noise
1:19:25>> and to take all of this noise and figure
1:19:27out exactly um what really really
1:19:29matters as it relates to my genuine
1:19:31mission, which is for the audience that
1:19:33decide to tune in every single week and
1:19:35day and month to get really great
1:19:37information to improve their lives.
1:19:38Yeah. and uh to to be able to strive at
1:19:42the things that they care about striving
1:19:43for, whether that's business or
1:19:45entrepreneurship or whether it's their
1:19:46health goals or fitness or finance or
1:19:48whatever. And the thing I actually took
1:19:49away from it is that there is a lot of
1:19:51information um when you're pursuing
1:19:53science.
1:19:54>> And so the one of the best things we can
1:19:57do because we know we're going to
1:19:58continue to have lots of different
1:19:59voices on the show is to continue to
1:20:01provide more context on what's what's
1:20:03being said. So, one of the things we've
1:20:04we introduced this year, which I really
1:20:06love, is on the screen during these
1:20:08conversations as you're talking about
1:20:10different complicated words or you're
1:20:12talking about different studies or
1:20:14whatever it might be, those studies will
1:20:16be appearing on the screen for the
1:20:17audience to see.
1:20:18>> And I think I think this is a first in
1:20:20podcasting. I don't think anyone else
1:20:22any of the major podcasters have done
1:20:23done this kind of thing. But that is
1:20:25something I actually took away from it.
1:20:26I thought, you know what, we can give
1:20:27our audience even more context so that
1:20:28they have a fuller picture.
1:20:30>> That's brilliant. So, you know, every
1:20:32cloud.
1:20:33>> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's certainly an
1:20:34opportunity to iterate and say, "All
1:20:36right, how could we do it better?" Not
1:20:37everyone's going to not everyone's going
1:20:39to take that approach, though.
1:20:40>> Always. And, you know, like it always
1:20:42come the question I was asking myself is
1:20:43like, "What are we here to do and what
1:20:45is our mission? And what would further
1:20:46the success of our mission?" And that's
1:20:48one such thing. So, for people, I had a
1:20:49lady contact me the other day. She said,
1:20:51"I listen on Spotify. I didn't realize
1:20:53that you were doing these like pop-up
1:20:54things on screen." But, um,
1:20:57>> but they're there. And also, I mean,
1:20:59there definitely is a reason to watch.
1:21:01>> Yeah. And in the description as well,
1:21:02there'll be there'll be a link to
1:21:04context as well that you can check out.
1:21:07>> But getting back to it, um, so 2026,
1:21:10you've given me the sort of daily
1:21:11protocol to follow. Is there anything
1:21:13else that we've missed cuz I really want
1:21:14to make sure that people listening
1:21:16achieve their 2026 health goals. I And
1:21:18you know what those goals are because
1:21:19people message you.
1:21:20>> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's
1:21:21always it's almost always weight loss in
1:21:23some way, shape, or form. No, I think
1:21:25that protocol is smart. I mean we didn't
1:21:26talk I mentioned a little bit about the
1:21:28role of exogenous ketones um which I am
1:21:31an advocate of uh and I would say if a
1:21:34person is able to maybe just sort of
1:21:38look at what other supplements they
1:21:40might be interested in like omega-3 if
1:21:42they are looking to gain muscle and
1:21:44they're working out and doing some
1:21:45resistance protocols definitely I would
1:21:48say if you're not eating omega-3 rich
1:21:50sources of foods like fish then get a
1:21:52good omega-3 supplement. Omega-3 helps
1:21:55with muscle building in a very
1:21:56meaningful way. It's It's not just one
1:21:58of those It's not just something you
1:22:00take for heart health.
1:22:02>> We were talking before we started
1:22:03recording about vitamins.
1:22:05>> Mhm. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, I was joking
1:22:08with you about how I was listening to
1:22:10this conversation. So, everything I'm
1:22:12about to explain, people know that I am
1:22:14I'm not an expert. As much as I'm a
1:22:16metabolism expert, that allows me to
1:22:18talk about this somewhat intelligently.
1:22:20So, let me lay the groundwork here. So,
1:22:22I was listening to a discussion of a
1:22:24rancher, a person who's growing
1:22:25livestock. And of course, just to help
1:22:28the business, you want these animals to
1:22:30get as big and even fat as possible and
1:22:32then get them off um to to you know,
1:22:35just make your money. They found that
1:22:38I'm going to I'm going to mess up these
1:22:39numbers a little bit, but I'm going to
1:22:41be closer than than someone might think.
1:22:43>> I'll put them on the screen. So they
1:22:44found that for roughly every six pounds
1:22:47of feed they would give an animal. So
1:22:49for every six pounds of food, you could
1:22:51expect one pound of growth in just
1:22:53normal a normal feed of normal just a
1:22:56mix of the the soy, the corn, whatever
1:22:58they're eating in in pigs or cattle. And
1:23:01then if you start adding B vitamin
1:23:04complexes, like a bunch of B vitamins,
1:23:07and then the higher that gets, you can
1:23:09go from 3 L pounds of feed is enough to
1:23:12get one pound. All up to the point where
1:23:14they could find that they could give the
1:23:15animals for every two pounds of food
1:23:17they would eat, they would gain one
1:23:19pound. So they had effectively tripled
1:23:21the efficiency with which the animals
1:23:24were able to get fat off of a given
1:23:25amount of food. So, one of my concerns
1:23:28as a scientist is the degree to which
1:23:30part of our obesity epidemic might be
1:23:33the degree to which we are consuming too
1:23:36much vitamins, especially B vitamins.
1:23:38And the irony there is that people take
1:23:41B vitamins because they want their
1:23:43metabolism to be more efficient. You'll
1:23:45hear that term. And yet, when it comes
1:23:47to weight loss, you actually don't want
1:23:49efficiency. You want inefficiency. Let
1:23:52me invoke the analogy of an engine. So,
1:23:54let's imagine that we're sitting in a
1:23:55car and we are in drive. We're in gear.
1:23:59We press the accelerator and we see the
1:24:01RPMs going up. That means we're burning
1:24:03fuel. The engine's revving. And because
1:24:05we're in drive, we're moving. So, we're
1:24:08actually driving. So, we're getting work
1:24:10done. That's what we would say is
1:24:12efficient. And an inefficient metabolism
1:24:15is actually more conducive to weight
1:24:17loss because now you're revving your
1:24:19engine, but you're in neutral. And so,
1:24:21you're not going anywhere. you don't
1:24:22have to get any work done. So, this
1:24:24would that's maybe a little step too far
1:24:27with the metaphor, but B vitamins are
1:24:30essentially making potentially the
1:24:32mitochondria and the cell be so
1:24:34efficient that it's storing more energy
1:24:38better rather than burning it and
1:24:39wasting it.
1:24:39>> Storing more fat.
1:24:40>> Storing more fat. You see echoes of you
1:24:42see hints of this in human studies where
1:24:44when they take high doses of niacin in
1:24:46various clinical trials,
1:24:48>> what's nice? It's one of the B vitamins
1:24:49or many of the B vitamins, but do you
1:24:51see substance in humans of of that
1:24:54supports this view where high doses of
1:24:56some of these vitamins do result in
1:24:58weight gain? Now, they're not really
1:25:00wellont controlled studies, but
1:25:02nevertheless, combined with the animal
1:25:04data, it does suggest that there's
1:25:06something about maybe people taking too
1:25:08many of these B vitamins and they're
1:25:10getting fatter for every calorie
1:25:11consumed because the body is just
1:25:13storing it too easily.
1:25:14>> And you're talking about taking too
1:25:16much. You're not talking about
1:25:17>> taking too much. I'm not talking about
1:25:18like reaching the daily minimum, but
1:25:20people are going like two or three or
1:25:21four times beyond that nowadays because
1:25:24everything is fortified. You'd mentioned
1:25:26one of the people in the comments
1:25:27mentioned that they cut out flour. Flour
1:25:30is heavily heavily fortified with B
1:25:32vitamins. And so every time we're eating
1:25:34it, we're getting B vitamins from
1:25:36everything. And usually it's coming with
1:25:38processed carbohydrates. So one more
1:25:39reason because you're not going to get
1:25:41an overload of B vitamins from just
1:25:42steak and eggs. It's going to be
1:25:44something that's been packaged because
1:25:45it's been fortified with these B
1:25:48vitamins. So, one of that might be one
1:25:49of the reasons why people are getting
1:25:51fatter than ever.
1:25:52>> I've got this uh pen in front of me. Do
1:25:54you know what this is?
1:25:55>> That's a GLP-1 medication.
1:25:57>> A Zmpeek.
1:25:58>> Ompic. Yeah.
1:25:59>> I've got an Ampec pen right here. Now,
1:26:02you've told me lots of different ways
1:26:03that I can lose my body fat in 2026,
1:26:07but couldn't I just jab myself with this
1:26:09and my hunger will evaporate and I'll
1:26:11lose fat. So that works until it
1:26:13doesn't. By that I mean we have really
1:26:16really good data now. So briefly on
1:26:18GLP1, although I know your audience is
1:26:20probably very familiar with this by now.
1:26:22GLP-1 is primarily a satiety hormone.
1:26:25It'll tell the brain that we're done
1:26:28eating and it will slow down the
1:26:30intestines significantly. So you'll eat
1:26:32food. If you and I were to go eat lunch,
1:26:34again, I've used that a couple times.
1:26:36Our food would be in our stomach for
1:26:37four to six hours maybe. If we injected
1:26:40ourselves with a GLP-1 drug, which puts
1:26:42an artificial amount of GLP-1 in our
1:26:45body, boom, we sh it in. It's some we
1:26:48grab a piece of fat and jab it in. Then
1:26:52it would it slows down people's
1:26:54intestines so much that they'll have
1:26:56food sitting in there for 24 hours. So,
1:26:58one of the things people talk about is
1:26:59what's called ompic burps where they
1:27:01just have this kind of belching bubbling
1:27:04gas because the food is sitting in the
1:27:06stomach for way longer than it's
1:27:08supposed to. So, no surprise the people
1:27:11are less interested in food. GLP-1 tells
1:27:14the brain they don't need to eat as much
1:27:15and slows down the intestines. Now,
1:27:17however, I said it works until it
1:27:19doesn't.
1:27:21There the main thing it helps people do
1:27:24is eat less carbohydrates. It controls
1:27:27cravings particularly. But there was a
1:27:30human paper that found when they
1:27:31followed people for 2 years. It was a
1:27:34beautiful figure. At about 6 months,
1:27:37they found that sweet cravings dropped
1:27:39significantly. A huge reduction in their
1:27:41cravings for chocolate and sweets. At 12
1:27:44months, it creeped up a little bit, but
1:27:46it was still noticeably below where it
1:27:48started. At 2 years, it was right back
1:27:50to normal. So at two years on the drug,
1:27:53the effects of having them not be
1:27:56interested in that plate of cookies now
1:27:58it's gone.
1:27:59>> What's going on there?
1:28:00>> So yeah, it's it's diminishing returns
1:28:02as to invoke a principle of economics.
1:28:05Doing the same thing again and again and
1:28:06again starts to work less and less and
1:28:09less. This we see this manifested in
1:28:11innumerable different ways of
1:28:12medications. So why do our clinicians
1:28:16why does the doctor tell us to make sure
1:28:17we take our full dose of antibiotic?
1:28:20Because if we don't, we give it just
1:28:22enough for the bacteria to become
1:28:24resistant to it. And now next time we
1:28:26would need two times the amount of B of
1:28:29antibiotic we had. So it's it's natural
1:28:32for the human body to become less
1:28:35responsive to a stimulus. And that is so
1:28:37much GLP-1 activation that it's no
1:28:40surprise that the body starts to say,
1:28:42"Hey, you're screaming at me too much
1:28:43and I'm going to become deaf to your
1:28:45signal."
1:28:47So it starts to work less. And in the UK
1:28:50and in the US about 70% of people get
1:28:53off the drug of their own valition at
1:28:55two years. They get tired of being on
1:28:57the drug because it's basically like a
1:28:59constant state of nausea. That's that's
1:29:01kind of how you'd say it works that if
1:29:04you're feeling always a little nauseous,
1:29:06you just don't really want to snack on
1:29:07something and people get tired of
1:29:09feeling nauseous. But another two-year
1:29:12study, two years appears to be kind of a
1:29:13magic timeline, found that of of every
1:29:17every pound they lost, 40% of it was
1:29:20from lean ma from fat-ree mass.
1:29:23>> What does that mean?
1:29:24>> So that means 60% was coming from fat,
1:29:2740% was coming from not fat, including
1:29:30muscle and bone. It would be water as
1:29:32well, but muscle and bone. And that
1:29:34matters because imagine if we have an
1:29:36older woman. Let's imagine a 60-year-old
1:29:38woman who wants to lose weight and goes
1:29:40on a drug.
1:29:42If she's lost weight now and then two
1:29:44years later wants to get off the drug
1:29:45like 70% of people do, she will her fat
1:29:49mass will come right back, but her lean
1:29:51mass may never come back. That muscle
1:29:53and bone may be gone for good.
1:29:56>> Who is it for? Who who would you
1:29:58recommend definitely does that does it
1:30:00uses it? And for how long with what
1:30:03other supplementation? Yeah, my my
1:30:05recommendation of the drug is to not
1:30:09currently it's being used for weight
1:30:11loss where people just say here, jab
1:30:13yourself with this and you're going to
1:30:14lose weight. Um, and it works. They will
1:30:16absolutely lose weight. But again, the
1:30:18concern being that you're going to uh
1:30:21lose a lot of lean mass at the same
1:30:22time. So my best use of that drug would
1:30:25be using it with two distinct purpose,
1:30:27two two ways, but for one purpose, which
1:30:30is this is a drug that's going to help
1:30:32you learn to control carbohydrates
1:30:34because that's the one macronutrient
1:30:35that people are addicted to. They're
1:30:37addicted to carbs. We eat too many
1:30:39carbs. We're a carb crazed culture. So
1:30:41my view is use these drugs to help
1:30:43people cure their cravings for
1:30:45carbohydrates.
1:30:46>> But then when I stop taking it, isn't it
1:30:47going to come back?
1:30:48>> Well, so that's it then. So then you use
1:30:49it in two different ways. One, you use a
1:30:51much lower dose than is currently used.
1:30:52what we could call a micro dose, if you
1:30:54will. Um, so use a lower dose and you
1:30:57cycle it on and off. So what I think
1:31:00people should be doing, and I'm going to
1:31:02talk about evidence to support this in
1:31:03just a second, go 90 days on the drug at
1:31:06a low dose while receiving coaching or
1:31:09counseling on how to use a low carb diet
1:31:12because they will find it easier than
1:31:14ever to control their carb consumption.
1:31:16Then at the end of 90 days, wean them
1:31:19off the drug and say, "Let's see if
1:31:21these habits have stuck." Very often
1:31:23they have. I know many, many people, and
1:31:25again, we're going to be publishing a
1:31:26report on this. I'll touch on that in
1:31:28just a second, who they've done 90-day
1:31:30cycle of a lowdose GLP-1 coupled with
1:31:32coaching on how to do a low carb diet,
1:31:35and they find that their cravings are
1:31:37gone and they don't need to be on the
1:31:39drug anymore. Some people will find that
1:31:41it lasts for a while, and the cravings
1:31:43start to come back. All right. Well,
1:31:44let's cycle you back on and try again.
1:31:47Let's find out what didn't work this
1:31:48time. So, we're about to publish a
1:31:50report. Anyone who wants to see a little
1:31:52more about this, I just encourage them
1:31:53to go to my site, insulinq.com.
1:31:56>> I'll link it below.
1:31:57>> Great. Um, but we have done a a
1:31:59collaborative work with a group in
1:32:00Idaho, a clinic in Idaho, where they
1:32:03[clears throat] have done just this.
1:32:04They have people getting low carb
1:32:05counseling with a cycled do low dose of
1:32:08GLP1 and the results vastly outperform
1:32:11those who just rely on the drug. Better
1:32:14fat loss and better retention of muscle
1:32:16mass.
1:32:16>> And when you say low carb counseling,
1:32:18that's just
1:32:19>> it's just people like me, you know, me
1:32:21saying, "Stephen, I'd like to go on a
1:32:22low carb diet." You saying, "Okay,
1:32:24great. Let's talk about how you can do
1:32:25it best." Kind of a little bit like what
1:32:27we've been doing, but basically just
1:32:28like a diet coach.
1:32:29>> Okay.
1:32:30>> But the results have been fantastic. Um,
1:32:33literally outperforming just the drug
1:32:35trials alone.
1:32:36>> Over what period of time?
1:32:37>> Yeah. So, it's now been we have people
1:32:38who have been two to three years.
1:32:41>> Yeah. We'll publish that soon. It's not
1:32:43submitted yet.
1:32:45>> All I had to do was brain dump. Imagine
1:32:47if you had someone with you at all times
1:32:50that could take the ideas you have in
1:32:52your head, synthesize them with AI to
1:32:54make them sound better and more
1:32:56grammatically correct and write them
1:32:58down for you. This is exactly what
1:33:00Whisper Flow is in my life. It is this
1:33:02thought partner that helps me explain
1:33:04what I want to say. And it now means
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1:33:46in a while you come across a product
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1:34:04can get at ketone.com
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1:34:09the reason why they they now are a
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1:34:19I went upstairs, tried it, and quite
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1:34:45I have a bunch of other things here on
1:34:46the table that my team have got me and
1:34:49they didn't tell me why they've got me
1:34:50these which I think is useful because
1:34:52this means that I can ask questions that
1:34:54the viewer might have. What the hell is
1:34:55this?
1:34:56>> Yeah. Yeah. So alulose is
1:34:58>> for anyone that can't see it's a white.
1:34:59>> So if you you could lick it. Lick your
1:35:01finger. You could put it in. It's going
1:35:02to taste a little bit like a kind of
1:35:04diluted sugar. It's just a sweetener.
1:35:07>> Okay.
1:35:07>> It's not quite as sweet as sugar. If it
1:35:09is actually alulose maybe.
1:35:10>> I'm so [laughter]
1:35:11>> Maybe it's not. Definitely.
1:35:13>> Oh, I'm so sorry.
1:35:14>> This is definitely a prop. It tastes
1:35:16like bleach. [laughter]
1:35:18>> It's not bleach, is it?
1:35:19>> No, it tastes awful, though. It tastes
1:35:20like um
1:35:21>> Oh my gosh. Sorry. [laughter]
1:35:23>> They labeled it alulose, but it tastes
1:35:25like the thing that you use to clean
1:35:27your clothes.
1:35:28>> Baking powder.
1:35:28>> Oh, it's baking powder.
1:35:29>> Okay. So, at least it's not going to
1:35:30kill you. Oh my gosh. If it were bleach,
1:35:32you need to go rinse your mouth.
1:35:34>> That was the end of the podcast.
1:35:34>> Oh my god.
1:35:36>> Yeah. Ben Dickman kills Steve [laughter]
1:35:38Bartlett.
1:35:39>> Okay. [snorts] I didn't know that. I'm
1:35:40so sorry. So,
1:35:41>> Alulos. Alulose is a it's a sugar
1:35:43replacement. It's what's called a rare
1:35:45sugar. Um, by that I mean it exists in
1:35:48nature. It is a sugar-like molecule. It
1:35:51tastes sweet and yet it it is non-
1:35:54metabolizable. It it doesn't get taken
1:35:56into the body and it's not calories you
1:35:58need to worry about. But what it does in
1:36:00the context of this discussion is that
1:36:02it will go further in the intestines and
1:36:04elicit a significant increase in GLP-1
1:36:06production. So, this would be one of the
1:36:08ways that someone listening who may be
1:36:10even on a GLP-1 drug and thinking, I
1:36:12need an exit. I want to get off this
1:36:14drug. I can't afford it or I feel
1:36:15miserable. I'm tired of the nausea. Um,
1:36:18using alulose either as a sweetener in a
1:36:20coffee or a tea or your baking or
1:36:22whatever is a way to increase your GLP1
1:36:25naturally. So, is your mate that I'm I'm
1:36:27drinking now that I start every morning
1:36:29with that has been shown. We've
1:36:31published a couple reports on that. That
1:36:32works as well.
1:36:33>> And what foods have also in them? Yeah,
1:36:36alulose is not something that you're
1:36:38going to get naturally. It has to be
1:36:40>> added.
1:36:41>> Yeah, it's added. But there are some
1:36:42like there are some yogurts now that
1:36:44have it. There are a few supplements
1:36:46that will use it as its sweetener and I
1:36:48encourage that development. It's a good
1:36:49sweetener to use.
1:36:50>> Okay. This other chemical that my team
1:36:52have got here, which is again, it's a a
1:36:54white powder.
1:36:55>> I'm not going to try it this time just
1:36:57in case it's something awful.
1:36:59>> Um says has a label on it that says
1:37:01collagen peptide. Yeah.
1:37:02>> Why have they got this?
1:37:03>> Yeah. So collagen peptides are another
1:37:05way to increase GLP-1. So that would be
1:37:07another signal here that if someone is
1:37:09interested in a good smart way of losing
1:37:11weight, I am a fan of collagen. There
1:37:13was in fact just a paper just published
1:37:16this week finding that a mix of collagen
1:37:18and various amino acids um was very
1:37:21effective at enhancing skin integrity
1:37:24and the collagen in the skin. So I'm a
1:37:26fan of collagen peptides. Are there any
1:37:28supplements that we haven't mentioned
1:37:30that you're a big fan of in terms of
1:37:32weight loss?
1:37:33>> Yeah, I'm I already mentioned a Go BHB,
1:37:36so an exogenous ketone source. Uh I do
1:37:39take collagen um as well. Um it's called
1:37:42iron feather. I love it. Um but also
1:37:46omega-3 in addition to other habits like
1:37:48the the yerba mate, which I love and
1:37:50other things like that. I don't call it
1:37:51a supplement as much as just a habit.
1:37:53>> What about creatine?
1:37:55>> Oh, yes. Yes. I I'm I I can't believe I
1:37:58didn't mention that. I'm very much an
1:37:59advocate of creatine. In fact, we have a
1:38:01study going on right now on it, which
1:38:03I'll come back to in a second. Um yeah,
1:38:05creatine has been um it's kind of the
1:38:08new thing where its traditional use had
1:38:10been in muscle and then now all of the
1:38:13hot evidence is coming out in the brain.
1:38:16So in the muscle evidence, there's two
1:38:18things to note. In fact, the first one
1:38:20is generic where creatine, not that
1:38:23you're asking this, but people may
1:38:24wonder how it works. Creatine will be
1:38:27taken into a cell and it creates this
1:38:29pool of potential energy called creatine
1:38:32phosphate. Now, earlier I'd mentioned
1:38:34ATP and I'm holding up three fingers
1:38:37because of the three phosphates on that
1:38:39ATP, the triphosphate molecule.
1:38:42When we say contract a muscle or a nerve
1:38:46is sending a signal, you're breaking ATP
1:38:49apart. You're splitting off one of those
1:38:50phosphates. Now, you're left with a
1:38:52diphosphate, ADP. In order to recycle or
1:38:56regenerate the ATP, you need another
1:38:58phosphate molecule. And this is where
1:38:59creatine comes in because creatine has a
1:39:02phosphate now that it can come and give
1:39:04to the ATP. rapidly recycling ATP
1:39:07>> which means
1:39:08>> so you're able to restore the energy in
1:39:09the cell sooner
1:39:10>> which means for me on a daily basis
1:39:12>> on a daily basis would it' be two things
1:39:14uh in the two tissues of interest one
1:39:16you can get more work out of your muscle
1:39:17in a given unit of time yeah
1:39:19>> so if you wanted to have a very
1:39:20effective 30-minute workout your rests
1:39:22could be much shorter because of your
1:39:24ability to regenerate ATP or recover but
1:39:27then the newest area of research is
1:39:29what's happening in the brain where
1:39:31creatine has been shown to increase
1:39:33brain energy and there are some
1:39:35incredible human studies finding that
1:39:37you take people with cognitive decline
1:39:39or some form of early dementia. Give
1:39:42them creatine supplementation and over
1:39:44the next few weeks their cognition will
1:39:46improve. So, as much as you have the gym
1:39:48bros who are taking it for muscle, which
1:39:50I'm sympathetic to, I want big healthy
1:39:52muscles, too. Um, more than anything,
1:39:54you and I, we're not getting paid
1:39:56because of our muscles. We're getting
1:39:57paid because of our brains. So, you and
1:39:59I are taking creatine to have bigger,
1:40:01better brains. But in order for the
1:40:04creatine to saturate the brain, you need
1:40:06more. And that's been some of the newest
1:40:08focus where you can get away if you're
1:40:11just taking it for muscle purposes, five
1:40:12grams is enough of creatine monohydrate.
1:40:16And if you want to get it to work for
1:40:17the brain, you need 10 or 15 grams. So
1:40:20quite a bit more.
1:40:21>> I heard this from another guest I had on
1:40:22the show and I was really shocked um
1:40:24because I didn't think about creatine as
1:40:26being something that could really
1:40:28elevate my cognitive performance. And
1:40:30from the studies that I've read in the
1:40:32research ahead of this conversation, I
1:40:34read that creatine helps your brain stay
1:40:36sharp, especially when you're in a low
1:40:39sleep
1:40:39>> Yes.
1:40:40>> mode or when you've been working very
1:40:41very hard. So that's a study. There's a
1:40:44human study that to sleepd deprived
1:40:46people deliberately had them take
1:40:48creatine versus the placebo and then do
1:40:49a series of cognitive tests. No
1:40:51surprise, the sleepd deprived people on
1:40:53placebo did very poorly. They're so
1:40:55tired. They're lethargic. the creatine
1:40:57treatment group performed much better.
1:41:01>> I heard this and I thought, "Wow, so
1:41:02when I'm like jetlagged or underslept, I
1:41:04should be taking my creatine."
1:41:06>> Yeah. And so, as an underslept dad,
1:41:08you'll get there soon enough. Um, I take
1:41:10creatine every morning. It is literally
1:41:12the first thing I I drink.
1:41:14>> It's hard for um I've noticed just in my
1:41:16friendship group when I've talked about
1:41:17creatine, it's sometimes hard to
1:41:19convince women to take creatine because
1:41:21there's a sort of prevailing stereotype
1:41:22that it makes you large.
1:41:24>> Yeah. Yeah. I wish um cuz then I'd be
1:41:27jacked. No, no, it doesn't. In fact, I
1:41:29think you could make the case that a
1:41:31woman relevant to the cognitive aspects
1:41:33of it should be focused on it more than
1:41:36men. So, there are few chronic diseases
1:41:39that women suffer from more than men and
1:41:41Alzheimer's disease is one of them. So,
1:41:43this is a disease that will affect women
1:41:45almost double or even triple the rate of
1:41:47it affecting men. In so far as the
1:41:50latest evidence shows that at higher
1:41:52doses, creatine helps with cognition, I
1:41:55think every woman, middle-aged and
1:41:58beyond, should be taking creatine daily.
1:42:00And indeed, on the higher end of that
1:42:02dose, because that's the dose you need
1:42:04to help your brain.
1:42:05>> And I read from one particular study, I
1:42:07think you talked about this on your
1:42:08YouTube channel, that creatine increases
1:42:10strength by up to 10% and power output
1:42:12by up to 15% and reduces muscle damage
1:42:16by 20 to 40% after intense exercise.
1:42:18>> Yeah. So creatine both acts as an
1:42:20energetic source and it changes gene uh
1:42:23transcription. So there's evidence to
1:42:24show that creatine in muscle stimulates
1:42:27what's called myiogenic genes. Myiogenic
1:42:30genes are those genes that promote
1:42:32muscle protein synthesis and muscle
1:42:33growth. So creatine both energizes the
1:42:37muscle and promotes growth of the
1:42:39muscle. Now a woman may say, "Well, I
1:42:41don't want to get big." You can't get
1:42:42big. The female a female body does not
1:42:45have the right mix of sex hormones to
1:42:47get big muscles. All that will happen is
1:42:50she'll have wonderful healthy strong
1:42:52muscles. She does. No woman ever needs
1:42:54to be worried about getting too big in
1:42:55muscles. It doesn't happen.
1:42:56>> Why do vegetarians and vegans need to
1:42:58pay more attention to creatine?
1:42:59>> Right. That is Yeah. So creatine is one
1:43:01of the many things, if you'll pardon me
1:43:03for saying it, that a vegan would need
1:43:05to pay attention to. Um so creatine is a
1:43:09molecule that you can eat. So, if
1:43:11someone's getting a lot of red meat, you
1:43:13could make the case that they don't need
1:43:14to supplement, that they're getting more
1:43:15than enough. But if you're not eating
1:43:17red meat, you may not be getting enough.
1:43:19And I'd say you probably aren't. And
1:43:21there's reason to get it
1:43:23>> and
1:43:24>> to supplement.
1:43:24>> Does creatine have an impact on blood
1:43:26sugar levels?
1:43:27>> No.
1:43:27>> Blood sugar [clears throat] spikes at
1:43:28all?
1:43:28>> No.
1:43:30>> I would say if someone ever notices, if
1:43:32they're taking a scoop of creatine and
1:43:33they see, then it's probably because you
1:43:35have some maltodextrin in your creatine
1:43:37powder. Do you know I I had my um blood
1:43:40levels done a couple of weeks ago and
1:43:41the doctor said to me that I should be
1:43:44careful because they're seeing high
1:43:45levels of creatine in my kidney.
1:43:47>> Okay. Yes. So what they would have said
1:43:48is they would have seen high levels of
1:43:50creatinine.
1:43:51>> That was it.
1:43:52>> Yeah. But that's important for people to
1:43:53know because that's one of the
1:43:55long-standing attacks against creatine
1:43:58has been a high level of creatinine.
1:44:01>> That was it.
1:44:01>> So creatinine is the metabolite of
1:44:03creatine. So when creatine has lived its
1:44:06life and served its purpose, it gets
1:44:08converted into a molecule called
1:44:09creatinine which is actively secreted
1:44:11from the kidneys. Now it's a waste
1:44:13product and the kidneys happily dump it
1:44:15out. Now in an average person, if
1:44:18someone has if you came in and you did a
1:44:20urine test and we found your creatine
1:44:22your creatinine levels were really
1:44:23really high, we would worry, hey, is
1:44:26this a sign of kidney damage? Are your
1:44:28kidneys allowing too much to get
1:44:29filtered? And and it might be a sign of
1:44:32that. However, if a person's taking
1:44:35creatine, it is absolutely guaranteed
1:44:37that they're going to have more
1:44:39creatinine coming out, and that's just
1:44:41because they're metabolizing more of the
1:44:42creatine. There's no reason to be
1:44:44worried about it.
1:44:45>> You talked about a 5-year study that
1:44:47found zero kidney changes in athletes
1:44:50taking up to 20 gram of
1:44:52>> which is significant
1:44:53>> creatine a day.
1:44:54>> Yeah. There's no evidence. I'm unaware
1:44:56of any study that has shown kidney
1:44:57damage on creatine supplementation. It
1:44:59is what we call in science an artifact
1:45:01where you see a little hint of a problem
1:45:04and assume it's it's actually causing a
1:45:07problem when it's actually just a
1:45:08manifestation of just what you're doing.
1:45:10>> Ben, I'm going to ask you to close your
1:45:11eyes.
1:45:11>> I'm ready.
1:45:12>> Okay. And I'm going to ask you to embody
1:45:16what I'm about to say. Okay.
1:45:17>> So, suddenly now you are a let's say
1:45:2135year-old
1:45:23man and your name is Dave and you have
1:45:28one kid. You have a little bit of extra
1:45:31fat around your midsection that you're
1:45:34trying to lose. You've been listening to
1:45:36this podcast for a while. You've heard
1:45:38lots of things. You haven't managed to
1:45:39make huge amount of progress. Sometimes
1:45:41you try and then you bounce right back
1:45:43>> and you're you're kind of at your wit's
1:45:45end. You really really want 2026 to be
1:45:48the year that you finally prove to
1:45:49yourself, your family, for the sake of
1:45:51your kids and inspiring them to live a
1:45:53happy, healthier future. That you can
1:45:55make a change and you can become the
1:45:58strong, healthy, sexy
1:46:02>> dad that your family wants you to be and
1:46:04that you want to be. You want to finally
1:46:06prove it to yourself after all these
1:46:08years of struggling, trying, failing.
1:46:13What is what is it that that guy or that
1:46:16woman needs to hear to close out this
1:46:19conversation today, Ben?
1:46:21>> Yeah.
1:46:23Um, I appreciate you mentioning the the
1:46:26the kid. I think you need to have a
1:46:28reason
1:46:30because making change is hard. You have
1:46:32to have a reason that is that is
1:46:34motivating you to do it. That goes
1:46:35beyond yourself. That's I should add
1:46:38that that you'd mentioned a handful of
1:46:40internal motivations. You want to feel
1:46:41better. you want to look better. Those
1:46:43are all valid, but sometimes it's not
1:46:45enough. Have an external reason. And
1:46:48when you're a parent, you have a reason.
1:46:49You have a child. You're living for your
1:46:51child. So, have a reason for doing what
1:46:54you're doing that goes beyond your own
1:46:56motivations and that touches someone
1:46:58else's life. And then two,
1:47:01you need to find a way to control your
1:47:03cravings. I think the more I look at the
1:47:05debates around obesity and weight loss,
1:47:09um, which is so central to looking and
1:47:11feeling better, the more I think you
1:47:13have to learn to control what you're
1:47:15addicted to. And so I would say start
1:47:20with the simplest habit and and change
1:47:22it. So, if this is if if Dave, the
1:47:2535-year-old dad of one, if he finds that
1:47:28he is starting to drink alcohol in the
1:47:32evening and then he's doing other things
1:47:34too that he doesn't like, stop doing
1:47:36that. Um, and recruit outside help. So,
1:47:39start with one habit you know you should
1:47:41change and change it. And then that can
1:47:44when it comes to changing diet, which is
1:47:45among the hardest things to do for many
1:47:47people,
1:47:49I would say eat a big lunch.
1:47:51Some people don't want to make small
1:47:53changes because they don't feel
1:47:55consequential enough. It doesn't feel
1:47:56like it matters.
1:47:57>> Yeah.
1:47:58>> You know, and this is one of the things
1:47:58again I've learned from interviewing so
1:48:00many people is that
1:48:02>> all of these habits are like at some
1:48:04level interconnected.
1:48:06>> And actually when you change one, you
1:48:08influence another.
1:48:09>> I totally agree.
1:48:10>> And actually huge change in life starts
1:48:13with small steps.
1:48:15And so cutting out the alcohol for
1:48:18example, that's going to have knock-on
1:48:20effects in other areas of life, right?
1:48:22Even like sleep or
1:48:23>> he will sleep much better. Yes. So
1:48:25multiple studies show that with cutting
1:48:27people have a have a mistaken view of
1:48:29alcohol when it comes to sleep where
1:48:31they they fall asleep faster but then
1:48:34they sleep worse throughout the rest of
1:48:35the night. So there's
1:48:36>> which then means what?
1:48:37>> Yeah. So that men So then you wake up
1:48:39the next morning and you're lethargic,
1:48:41you're tired, your cortisol will be
1:48:42higher, you will be more insulin
1:48:44resistant. So, higher insulin levels
1:48:46throughout the day,
1:48:47>> which means you're going to have
1:48:48cravings,
1:48:48>> which means you'll have cravings. And
1:48:50every calorie you consume, you're going
1:48:51to be more likely to store it. So, then
1:48:53your body is more efficient at getting
1:48:55fat on any given amount of calories. So,
1:48:58even even something as simple as
1:48:59alcohol, which you and I haven't
1:49:00discussed at all, and and maybe Dave
1:49:03isn't an alcohol drinker, but many
1:49:05people are, uh, that is it has this
1:49:08patina of helping a person's sleep, and
1:49:10yet it absolutely does not. And sleep is
1:49:12a massively relevant variable when it
1:49:14comes to uh metabolic health and weight
1:49:16loss and just feeling well.
1:49:18>> What about stress? That's a protagonist
1:49:20in the story that we haven't talked
1:49:21about, but I know it dovetales into
1:49:22ketones and
1:49:23>> Oh, it sure is. Weight loss.
1:49:24>> So, in fact, it's a perfect segue
1:49:26because sleep deprivation, I believe, is
1:49:28the leading cause of stress. And stress
1:49:31is one of the three cardinal causes of
1:49:32what I call fast insulin resistance.
1:49:34When the body becomes insulin resistant
1:49:36in like hours, stress is one of them.
1:49:40and poor sleep is the main cause. And so
1:49:42in this case, a person could look, let's
1:49:45say Dave is not sleeping well. There are
1:49:47actually the problem with stress is that
1:49:49it's hard to define that they're going
1:49:51to bed and they're not feeling very
1:49:53great and they're worried about stuff
1:49:54and and if I were to tell him, Dave,
1:49:56reduce your stress.
1:49:57>> Well, now he's even more stressed
1:49:59because he doesn't know how to do it.
1:50:00This is where I think another
1:50:01opportunity for some smart
1:50:03supplementation can come in where there
1:50:05are these adaptogen like molecules in
1:50:08nature like ashwagandha. So I just tried
1:50:11an ashwagandha source in the form of a
1:50:13little gummy, a goalie gummy and it had
1:50:15enough like a full kind of therapeutic
1:50:17dose of ashwagandha and it's in the form
1:50:19of a delicious little gummy you know so
1:50:21you don't have to take this bitter
1:50:22tasting powder from an ashwagandha root
1:50:25you can take a gummy and then you sleep
1:50:27a little better because it's been shown
1:50:29in humans to improve sleep latency
1:50:31improve improve sleep architecture and
1:50:32it could be one of the mechanisms is
1:50:34that it's just suppressing your cortisol
1:50:36response. So if if Dave or anyone is
1:50:39feeling that that would just be one more
1:50:42strategy to address your metabolic
1:50:44health that you would sort of t take the
1:50:48small steps you can the little wins and
1:50:50maybe he's saying all right I need to
1:50:51sleep a little better. I'm going to cut
1:50:52my alcohol. I'm going to take a little a
1:50:54couple of these ashwagandha gummies
1:50:55before I go to bed and not eat before I
1:50:58go to bed so I don't go to bed
1:50:59hypoglycemic. You'll start to sleep a
1:51:01little better. You'll wake up the next
1:51:02day ready to kind of win the day. Is
1:51:05there a relationship with ketones and
1:51:06stress?
1:51:07>> Yeah, there is in that ketones help. So,
1:51:10ketones are more and more called an
1:51:12anxolytic. That's a technical term for
1:51:14reducing anxiety. It has been shown to
1:51:17be a direct effect. So, BHB, the main
1:51:18ketone, acts as a signaling molecule and
1:51:21will come to the brain and reduce the
1:51:24stress hormone signaling.
1:51:25>> What is the most important thing we
1:51:27didn't talk about that we should have
1:51:28talked about, Ben?
1:51:30Um,
1:51:30>> as it relates to that person who's
1:51:32looking to make a change once and for
1:51:34all,
1:51:36>> one thing I would add, if if we go back
1:51:38to the middle-aged guy who's just trying
1:51:40to be the best version of himself, part
1:51:42of it might be his testosterone levels
1:51:45and and that is worth getting checked.
1:51:47So, as much as we focus, you've had in
1:51:49the past very good conversations about
1:51:51women's health, including menopause, men
1:51:53have their own version of it. um albeit
1:51:56more modest, but we could more
1:51:58technically call it andropause, the male
1:52:00version of it. But there is a steady
1:52:02reduction in testosterone levels. And if
1:52:05he finds that he is tired and he's
1:52:07gaining weight, get your testosterone
1:52:09checked. If it's actually low, lose a
1:52:12little weight and the testosterone will
1:52:13boost. But if you need help, there are
1:52:15supplements that can even help with
1:52:16testosterone production that go that you
1:52:19could use before full-on testosterone
1:52:22replacement therapy. Um, but ice bath,
1:52:25an ice bath, I know guys who've doubled
1:52:27their testosterone levels by doing ice
1:52:29immersion, cold plunge, and then a
1:52:31workout after their cold plunge. That's
1:52:34a wicked awesome combination.
1:52:37>> So, there are a couple of tests that
1:52:38we've mentioned today. So, I just want
1:52:39to summarize some of those tests. Can
1:52:41people check their insulin levels at
1:52:43home?
1:52:44>> No.
1:52:45>> No.
1:52:46>> Not not really. There are some tests
1:52:47that have been marketed for at home use,
1:52:49but they're quite cumbersome, and I
1:52:50would say they're not really ready for
1:52:52mainstream yet. Okay. So, they have to
1:52:54go to a doctor and get their test. You
1:52:55do.
1:52:55>> And then the testosterone, you can't
1:52:57check that at home either. No. I guess
1:52:58you could could you get sent something
1:52:59in the post?
1:53:00>> You can. Yeah. So, there's companies in
1:53:02the US, uh, Blok and Joy, for example,
1:53:04there's other services you can use where
1:53:06you go online, sign up, and they send
1:53:07you either a phabotamist or a little
1:53:09thing nowadays that you just snap onto
1:53:12your arm, press a little button, and
1:53:13it'll fill the tube with blood, and you
1:53:15just ship it back.
1:53:16>> Are there any tests that you recommend
1:53:18my audience get done?
1:53:20>> Yeah. Yeah. I would say I am an enormous
1:53:22advocate of measuring insulin. If I
1:53:24could change any policy within the
1:53:26United States and and worldwide, it
1:53:29would be that as much as every blood
1:53:31test you and I will go into a blood test
1:53:32every time they'll measure our glucose
1:53:34and our lipids like cholesterol and
1:53:36triglycerides, they'll never measure
1:53:38insulin. If I could have one change in
1:53:41the US and the UK and everywhere else,
1:53:42I'd say add insulin to that panel
1:53:45because once we get insulin, we can
1:53:46measure the fasted level and a person
1:53:49wants to see it at around 7 microunits
1:53:51per mill or less. That's a really really
1:53:53good sign. So you look at your insulin
1:53:55alone, but then with insulin and
1:53:57glucose, you can do something called the
1:53:59hom
1:54:01ha the hom score and that's a really
1:54:04good score of where you fall on the
1:54:06insulin resistance spectrum. And do you
1:54:09recommend that people try and wear a
1:54:10continuous glucose monitor, which is a
1:54:12device that costs $ 20, $30, you can get
1:54:14it on everywhere online that stays on
1:54:17your arm for 14 days and it it monitors
1:54:19your glucose levels, say your blood
1:54:20sugar levels. Do you recommend people do
1:54:22that?
1:54:22>> I do. I I think that the CGM a CGM is
1:54:25one of the best ways for a person to
1:54:27make their own changes. So, if you put a
1:54:29CGM on your body, you're able to look at
1:54:31your phone and see what's happening in
1:54:33your blood.
1:54:34>> A CGM being a continuous glucose
1:54:35monitor.
1:54:35>> A continuous glucose monitor. you're
1:54:37getting a continuous measurement of your
1:54:38glucose levels. I have seen more people
1:54:41make changes of their own valition when
1:54:43they just are wearing a CGM and they
1:54:46don't need someone to be nagging them.
1:54:48You know, you're you have that internal
1:54:49motivation because you see what's
1:54:51happening in your own body.
1:54:52>> For anyone that's never tried it, I
1:54:53highly recommend it. You I'll link a CGM
1:54:55below in the comment section. Um I don't
1:54:57have an affiliation to any CGMs, but
1:54:59when you eat something within minutes,
1:55:01usually you can see on your phone your
1:55:04blood sugar levels rising. And it's for
1:55:06me it was a really important and
1:55:07informative 14 days with the CGM on my
1:55:10arm because it I got to try things that
1:55:12I have every single day and understand
1:55:14my blood sugar relationship with those
1:55:17things. So I got to try tomato ketchup
1:55:19and then I got to try a Coke Zero and
1:55:22then I don't know cheese and bananas and
1:55:24fruit and I got to see within minutes
1:55:27how much blood glucose was in my blood
1:55:29and and that informed going forward for
1:55:31the next couple of years the decisions
1:55:33that I made in my life.
1:55:34>> Yeah. and people who the nice thing
1:55:36about it is you can stack it with other
1:55:37technologies like let's say you're
1:55:38wearing a Whoop.
1:55:40>> Yeah.
1:55:41>> AD.
1:55:42>> One of the cool things with the CGM is
1:55:43the ability to stack it with other
1:55:45wearables. Well, where let's say that a
1:55:47person notices that they with wearing a
1:55:48Whoop that their HRV is suggesting that
1:55:52they're stressed. And then you look at
1:55:54that at the same time as your CGM. You
1:55:56may find that what's causing you to feel
1:55:59stressed could be your hypoglycemic
1:56:01spike. And you wouldn't have known that
1:56:02if it weren't for the CGM. So, I think
1:56:04there's a lot of utility in stacking
1:56:06some of these wearables. Someday they're
1:56:08all going to be in one. Yeah.
1:56:09>> Um, and they'll crack the code of doing
1:56:11that. But, I think it really does lend
1:56:13insight. I made one of the biggest
1:56:15changes to my sleep by wearing a CGM
1:56:18where I would sleep terribly. I'd be
1:56:20monitoring my stress and find that, wow,
1:56:23every time I sleep really poorly, my
1:56:25blood glucose, I'd spike my blood
1:56:27glucose in the evening. I'm going to try
1:56:29cutting that out. And sure enough, I it
1:56:31was the single greatest change of my
1:56:33sleep habits.
1:56:34>> Ben, we have a closing tradition on this
1:56:35podcast that the last guest leaves a
1:56:37question for the next guest, not knowing
1:56:38who they're leaving it for. The question
1:56:39left for you is, if you could have
1:56:41anything in the world for the rest of
1:56:42your life, what would it be and why?
1:56:47And you can't say your family.
1:56:50>> Ah, okay. I was going to ask for that
1:56:52clarification. Okay. If I could have any
1:56:55one thing, an item that's not a person,
1:56:57um I would choose to have my uh my
1:57:01scriptures,
1:57:02these holy scriptures, um that I I read
1:57:06every day. I believe a lot of my
1:57:09happiness in life has come from my uh my
1:57:12religious conviction and my belief in a
1:57:14higher power and my faith in God. As a
1:57:16scientist, it seems like too many people
1:57:18want to describe faith as a negative
1:57:21thing. But everything we do is based on
1:57:23faith. Every action we take is a is a
1:57:25faith in a hope that the consequence
1:57:27will be one we want. And so for me, it
1:57:30would be my scriptures. Just my way of
1:57:33meditating and pondering my position in
1:57:35the greater universe and my connection
1:57:38with what I believe to be a God, a
1:57:40loving heavenly father who cares about
1:57:43me and that I can go to when I feel like
1:57:45I need help. that goes beyond what I can
1:57:46do with my own hands.
1:57:47>> What do you think this is all about?
1:57:49This life, what do you think the point
1:57:50of this all of this is?
1:57:51>> Oh, that's a big question. Um, I believe
1:57:54it is to show our heavenly father that
1:57:57we are capable of more that I have very
1:58:00much a very clear um worldview that we
1:58:03have a loving heavenly father that we
1:58:05existed in a premortal state and that
1:58:08our bodies this mortal experience is an
1:58:11experience for us. We've been given this
1:58:13much power. These bodies give us some
1:58:16power. We have power over life. We have
1:58:18power over death and all the temptations
1:58:20that can come from addictions and habits
1:58:22that are unique to this mortal
1:58:24tabernacle. I think we've been given a
1:58:26period of time to show that we can wield
1:58:31power and control ourselves.
1:58:34just assuming my my my religious view is
1:58:37very much that just like my as a as a
1:58:39father my great hope is that my children
1:58:41will grow up to be wonderful mothers and
1:58:44fathers that I want them to be able to
1:58:46pattern their lives after what they see
1:58:47in my wife and me. I believe that we
1:58:50have a heavenly father and a heavenly
1:58:52mother actually that the we have these
1:58:54divine parents who want nothing more
1:58:55than for their children to grow up and
1:58:57be like them. And I think this is just
1:58:59like my children will have to leave the
1:59:01home. If I coddled them and protected
1:59:03them and only let them stay in my home,
1:59:05they'd never learn anything. They'd
1:59:06never grow up because mom and dad are
1:59:08doing everything. This I think mortal
1:59:10life is our divine parents opportunity
1:59:13to show to to help us grow up and then
1:59:16the time will come for us to pass on and
1:59:18we will come back to them. Hopefully
1:59:21showing that we are ready to continue to
1:59:23learn and progress and be more like
1:59:24them.
1:59:25>> To what end? For what reason?
1:59:27>> To mimic what our heavenly parents have
1:59:30been able to do where they they have
1:59:31been able to create a world and populate
1:59:33it with their spirit children. I want to
1:59:36do that too. I you and I before we
1:59:38started recording I joked about how much
1:59:39I miss babies. I desperately and I do.
1:59:42It is an ache in my soul that my
1:59:45children are not little cuddly babies
1:59:48anymore. Now they're darling children
1:59:50nevertheless. But I miss babies. And to
1:59:53me, heaven is my wife and I whom I love
1:59:58having a family that never ends. and and
2:00:01that we're able to
2:00:03give life to this countless number of
2:00:05future children. Um that someday we'll
2:00:08be born on a world just like us. That's
2:00:10a pretty cosmic grand view. But to me,
2:00:13the purpose of life is to show Heavenly
2:00:16Father that we are worthy of more and
2:00:20not just end into a nihilistic blackness
2:00:23when we die.
2:00:26>> Thank you. We're done.
2:00:27>> My pleasure.
2:00:29>> [music]
2:00:32>> If there's anything we need, it is
2:00:34connection. Especially in the world
2:00:35we're living in today. And that is
2:00:37exactly why we created these
2:00:39conversation cards. Because on this
2:00:40show, when I sit here with my guest and
2:00:42have those deep, intimate conversations,
2:00:45this remarkable thing happens time and
2:00:47time again. We feel deeply connected to
2:00:50each other. At the end of every episode,
2:00:51the guest I'm interviewing leaves a
2:00:53question for the next guest, and we've
2:00:55turned them into these conversation
2:00:57cards. And we've added these twist cards
2:00:59to make your conversations even more
2:01:00interesting. And there are so many more
2:01:03twists along the way with the
2:01:04conversation cards. This is the brand
2:01:05new edition. And for the first time
2:01:07ever, I've added to the pack this gold
2:01:09card, which is an exclusive question
2:01:11from me. But I'm only putting the gold
2:01:14cards in the first run of conversation
2:01:17cards. So get yours now before the
2:01:18limited edition gold cards are all gone.
2:01:21Head to the link in the description
2:01:22below.
2:01:24[music]
2:01:25Heat. Heat. N.
2:01:29[music]
2:01:35I see.
2:01:39[singing]

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