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Inside ElevenLabs: Voice AI, Cloning Ethics, and the End of the Call Centre? — Transcript

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0:00Very soon it will be normal to have your
0:03own AI assistant that you can speak to
0:05that not only gives you advice and
0:07proactively recommends things but can go
0:09and actually take action with your
0:11permission with the right guardrails of
0:12course and that action will often be
0:15speaking or connecting with a brand or
0:18an organization to potentially go and
0:20buy something or make a change to a
0:22flight. And on the other end of that is
0:24sometimes a human, but also more and
0:27more so will be an AI agent as well.
0:31>> Damian, podcasting is my one job. You
0:34guys have very realistic conversations
0:36on the platform that I can't tell the
0:39difference between real humans and those
0:41should I be looking for a new job?
0:45Hello and welcome to In the Blink of AI.
0:48I'm Georgie Healey and today we have
0:49Damian. He is the GM of A&Z at 11 Labs
0:53and he's currently 3 to 4xing the team
0:56growth plan here in Australia and New
0:59Zealand. 11 Labs, you might think of
1:02them as Voice AI. That's definitely what
1:04they're famous for. They have 11 API, 11
1:07creative, and 11 agents. Now, Damian's
1:11been having fun with a fridgemounted
1:13family AI assistant and the voice of
1:16Michael Kaine. I actually used the app
1:18to read me back my own substack in the
1:21voice of Lawrence Olivier. It made me
1:24sound so impressive and we talked about
1:28what AI music we would like to bring
1:30back. I will save that for the show.
1:33Damian has some really good perspectives
1:35with his years in uh managing and
1:38leading teams and he has a hot hot take
1:40on enterprise AI. If tech leads instead
1:44of the business, the guard rails and the
1:47ways that you are approaching it are
1:49going to fall behind. I will let him
1:52explain that in better detail in the
1:54show. And we have probably one of my
1:56favorite lines of the podcasts I've ever
1:59done, which is that tall poppy syndrome
2:02here is a scouge on society. To be
2:05honest,
2:06frankly, I agree. Let's dive into the
2:09show for that and so many more hot
2:11takes. You're listening to a dayf show.
2:19>> Founders scale faster on deal. Set up
2:21payroll for any country in minutes. Hire
2:24anyone anywhere. Get visas handled fast
2:27and get back to building. Visit
2:29deal.com/day1.
2:31That's dwel.com/day1.
2:39Can you please share your AI hack of the
2:41week?
2:42>> AI hack. I'll share something that I
2:43built recently with 11 Labs, of course,
2:46uh, and N8N, and it's it's close to
2:50where I wanted to get to, but I think
2:52there's still a lot more to go. We've
2:53actually built a family AI assistant
2:56that sits on the fridge on an iPad uh
2:59using 11 Labs which is essentially taken
3:02all the life admin but not just
3:05reactively proactively as well. So, and
3:08we call we call him the butler. Uh the
3:10butler proactively talks to me in the
3:13morning as I'm making the morning coffee
3:15uh to talk about anything from how
3:17you've got this event coming up. It
3:19accesses the school calendars for all of
3:21the kids. It knows when important dates
3:24are coming up. Have we bought a present?
3:26Would you like some recommendations to,
3:29hey, would you like maybe you're running
3:31low on bread or milk? And the next part
3:33is hooking up with Harris Farm Worth and
3:36the rest of it to actually make
3:38purchases as well. But it's actually it
3:41was easy to set up and it's really
3:43impressive.
3:44>> My hack is very similar but different.
3:46And um I thought, how can you top
3:50Lawrence Olivier who you also have on
3:53the app? What I did is I have a semi
3:56humorous um substack. It's bite-size
4:00once a week. Having Lawrence Olivier
4:02read that my own substack back out to
4:05me, I'm like, "Wow, this is world class
4:06writing. It's incredible."
4:08>> Exactly.
4:10>> The voice matters, right? The voice that
4:11delivers something actually matters.
4:13>> It genuinely does matter. Um, and there
4:16is something powerful about the
4:18connection you have with these voices,
4:20right? Um, brings me back to Wthering
4:22Heights and and you know, being able to
4:24hear his voice.
4:25>> Yeah. The old school one. Old school one
4:27he's in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
4:30>> amazing, fantastic hack.
4:32>> The reason I'm so thrilled to speak to
4:34you is 11 Labs is launching here in
4:37Australia. This is huge news. So
4:39excited. First of all, what is your role
4:41at 11 Labs and set the scene about the
4:44team here and plans for the team?
4:47>> Sure, would love to. Uh, so we have a
4:49bit of a philosophy of no job titles at
4:5211 Labs. We like to hire people that are
4:54committed to the cause and you know no
4:58task or job is beneath them and hiring
5:00for the right culture. Uh, so we are
5:02light on uh we're light on job titles
5:05but um my job title essentially is
5:08general manager of region. So A&Z we are
5:11uh aggressively expanding into a lot of
5:14international regions and A&Z is one of
5:17them. Uh so really excited and proud to
5:20be leading the team here. We have four
5:22people in region at the moment. Uh all
5:25hired this year
5:26>> and we've got plans to three to 4x that
5:30size the size of the team very quickly.
5:33uh we are launching our presence in
5:35region but we already have a really
5:37strong customer base here and that was
5:39one of the reasons why A&Z was one of
5:41the markets we're expanding in uh so
5:43we've got a great list of customers here
5:45already today and there's some really
5:48strong signals from the market that
5:50organizations are shifting from
5:53you know proof of concept uh that goes
5:56to die maybe in the corner of one pocket
5:59of the organization to just a real
6:01understanding that voice AI to
6:04communicate with customers and also
6:06internally is going to be critical to
6:09the organization moving forward. So
6:10there's some really strong signals in
6:12market and you know it's really
6:14important to have uh a local team with
6:17local market knowledge and can really
6:19embed deeply with the customer to
6:22understand their problems. uh you know
6:24because this is a really challenging
6:26complex space uh voice AI is you know
6:30very complex to get right uh at scale
6:33and to make it humanlike uh so it really
6:36requires a local team with local
6:38resources to work with our customers uh
6:41closely so yeah really excited
6:43>> it's so exciting because voice AI I do
6:46think of 11 labs and have for a few
6:48years uh a lot of our listeners are in
6:50the tech space and the startup space and
6:52familiar You mentioned that we're ready
6:55here and voice AI is a unique space in
6:59AI. What were the signals that we were
7:01ready and are you allowed to share any
7:03of the customers like you know or a
7:08nudge that for the listeners globally?
7:10>> Sure. Yeah. Well, we're having our
7:12launch event this week and we've got
7:14some amazing customers speaking on stage
7:16that are already attributed to 11 Labs
7:18from Zero to Heidi Health to Employment
7:23Hero. So, some really interesting brands
7:24and customers here locally um with lots
7:27of different use cases uh from uh
7:30deploying a voice AI agent to make
7:34outbound calls to customers uh that
7:36otherwise would never really get any
7:38love. That's on one that's on one side.
7:40Uh on the other side we have a
7:42completely different use case which is
7:45uh Andromeda who has I'm sure you're
7:47familiar with Andromeda but uh for those
7:49who are not they have an amazing use
7:51case for uh a voice AI and humanlike
7:56voices within their robot that is uh
7:59Abby and Abby is you know great tech for
8:02good story uh which is uh visiting
8:05patients in age care facilities or
8:08residents I should say in age care
8:09facilities that otherwise maybe would
8:11not have, you know, not getting regular
8:13visits and to have a a human-like
8:15experience to engage and have, you know,
8:18better better outcomes for residents is
8:20another great use case. So, there's lots
8:22of different um customers that we're
8:24that we work with here locally and a
8:27variety of different use cases. But I
8:28think signals wise, back to your
8:30question, I mentioned before about, you
8:33know, little proof of concepts that sort
8:34of go to die in a corner of the of the
8:36business. uh my observations in the
8:40market uh I think there's there's
8:42there's probably two things. one is
8:44there has been an incredible amount of
8:47inbound inquiry which is a a clear
8:49signal when you have you know 11 Labs
8:52has a really strong PLG in motion
8:54globally um with fantastic success uh
8:58and we have evolved our platform into
9:01more of an end toend uh agentic AI
9:04platform with voice at the center
9:06because it's the hardest one to to
9:08really get right um but it's not just
9:11voice of course for us you have you need
9:12to be multi multimodal uh but the
9:14signals that we're getting in the market
9:17are really uh not only um complementing
9:20the human experience to create better uh
9:24touch points and customer experiences
9:26for end customers. Uh so it's not only
9:28that but it's the ability to uh to
9:31branch out into different parts of the
9:33business to provide different
9:35experiences to customers that just
9:37otherwise wouldn't make financial sense
9:40to have humans doing so. Um, so that's
9:42where we've seen some really interesting
9:43signals in the market.
9:45>> Incredible.
9:47I hadn't even thought about Abby the
9:49robot, who I am personally familiar with
9:51the the the business and the robot in
9:54these age care facilities. And I never
9:57thought, oh my gosh, voice is the
9:59missing piece there. That's so
10:01incredible. So very excited to hear more
10:04about that, see more about that.
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10:46Can we zoom out a a moment? You started
10:50your career like I'm listening to you're
10:52very uh tech and business literate, but
10:54you started your career as a journalist.
10:56Is that right?
10:57>> I did. I did many years ago now. Yes.
10:59Didn't last too long. It was only a
11:01couple of years. I feel like um
11:04journalism is still really important,
11:06but how do you see AI um impacting
11:10journalism and and that kind of
11:12integrity of writing?
11:14>> Yes, good good question. Look, I think
11:16over time and I saw it even when I mean
11:18I'm going back to early 2000s and even
11:22then you could see perhaps the industry
11:25uh was going to be challenged by
11:27technology uh and there were less and
11:30less roles and entry level roles.
11:33There's good and bad, you know, good and
11:36bad that comes with um technology
11:38improvements. Uh I would say journalism
11:41um has been it's it's been a bit choppy,
11:44right? There's been a lot of great
11:45things to come from technology but I
11:47think in the journalism space it really
11:50has eroded journalism in my opinion and
11:54you know to find quality journalism
11:56these days quality investigative
11:58journalism in particular uh that is
12:01nonbias
12:03uh and that is a trusted source is is
12:06really hard a lot of people consume
12:08their their news on social media and
12:11that creates uh inherent problems I
12:14think in society. But that's a that's
12:17probably a whole another podcast.
12:18>> Yeah, that that would be an interesting
12:20podcast. I do know I can very quickly
12:22tell when people are getting their
12:24journalism from like tech fintech
12:26Twitter and things like that. Um but
12:28where do you get your knowledge now? AI
12:31is moving so quickly.
12:33>> Yeah. Uh so I I'd probably say the three
12:36main sources for me uh number one is AFR
12:41and so I skew towards the the Fairfax
12:44the old Fairfax type of publications. So
12:46AFR and SMH and SMH even today does some
12:49really good investigative journalism
12:51work.
12:52>> So uh that's for my you know personal
12:54and business uh reading. So personal SMH
12:57AFR for business uh and then the ABC as
13:00well. So which I find is a good balance.
13:02So that's where I go to consume my
13:05media, but I'm very much a I'm a
13:07habitual once a day type of news
13:10consumer. Uh so I kind of have the
13:13opposite of FOMO.
13:15>> Yeah.
13:15>> I don't require like a stream of
13:17information coming at me left, right,
13:19and center from all different places. I
13:21just have the habit of I know where I
13:22want to source my information. I go
13:25there once a day and then I move on with
13:27my day and the next day I'll come back.
13:29>> That's my New Year's resolution for next
13:30year. Currently I am the stream of
13:32information at all times person
13:36right so like please stay away because
13:38that's the problem right it's slow
13:40>> yeah I know yeah I struggle with
13:42LinkedIn as it is let alone let alone
13:44anything else but yeah
13:45>> exactly right exactly right um very
13:47fascinating to get that perspective from
13:49an exjournalist by the way look before
13:53interviewing you I did look at your
13:55LinkedIn I was really aware of Hyper
13:58Anna where you used to work because I
14:00worked at Sanctuary And I think we used
14:02the tools and it was very exciting and
14:04very successful. And then it was
14:05acquired by Alterics which is uh a
14:08product I used
14:09>> in a different consulting firm since
14:11then. So much has changed since this
14:13tech um was launched and blew our minds
14:16with the evolution of AI.
14:19What made those products special and um
14:24before a time that AI existed that might
14:26have not used them? Yeah, in many ways
14:28there's there's been so much that has
14:30changed. So I think that's going back
14:32seven years, seven to eight years now
14:34when I was at uh Hyperana than it before
14:37it was acquired by Altrix. Uh and in so
14:40much has changed since then, but
14:43testament to the co-founders and and
14:45Natalie the co-founder and CEO was
14:47amazing to work with and a really smart
14:48team there.
14:49>> They had a really clear vision that was
14:50ahead of the market. So what you're
14:52seeing today a lot with vendors today is
14:54what Hyperana was working on and selling
14:58seven years ago.
14:59>> Um there was a bit of ETL required to uh
15:02to transition between uh the data set
15:05that a customer typically has and to
15:07extract like natural language insights
15:10for every business user which was the
15:12premise of of Hyperunner. Um but super
15:14smart team um ahead of its time. uh so
15:18much has changed yet I still think that
15:20there is a bit of a gap with the
15:22everyday business user still having to
15:24rely on dashboards and reports and
15:27without having easy access to insight.
15:29So I still think there's a there's a big
15:31opportunity to continue developing that
15:34space.
15:35>> Um your colleague Carlos uh went
15:38semiviral on a podcast that I adore and
15:41love called 20VC talking about the high
15:43performance culture at 11 Labs. But
15:46you're really passionate about yes, high
15:48performance, but I read that you're
15:50you're also interested in sustainability
15:53and enjoyment. Can you tell me h how
15:55both? How can you be high performing and
15:57also sustainable and also maybe even
16:00enjoy your life? Like how?
16:01>> Sure. Yes. Yes. Um I was going to ask
16:03you what sort of sustainability we
16:05talking about here on the but I I know
16:07what you're saying. Yes. Absolutely. So
16:08yes, Carlos has had some quite some
16:11viral moments in some of his on some of
16:13his podcasts. Like I think the and you
16:16may have heard or people may have seen
16:17the the 20x their quotota like 20 20x
16:21salary for quotota.
16:23>> Explain that too just in case people
16:25don't understand. So they've got a 100k
16:27salary.
16:29>> Yeah. So I I'll clarify this. So it's a
16:31base salary 20x of your base salary. So
16:34typically an enterprise AE might have a
16:3750/50 split of base and variable for
16:40their salary package. So if someone has
16:42100k as their base, then their quotota
16:44would be 20x that. So $2 million.
16:47>> Yeah.
16:47>> Uh so that's what we're referring to
16:49here. But I think there's a couple of
16:50things if we if we strip this back that
16:52we look for. And firstly, in many ways,
16:5511 Labs has the growth story has
16:58rewritten along with other companies as
17:00well, not just 11 Labs, but rewritten
17:01the way that a fast growing tech company
17:05grows uh to get to I think at the point
17:09uh roughly 400 million ARR with or sorry
17:12400 million ARR with roughly 400
17:14employees. Those multiples are wild
17:18compared to your more legacy SAS
17:21organizations.
17:23So if you are joining 11 Labs or really
17:26any other fast growing tech company
17:27today, if you're not having a view of at
17:30least 3, four, 5xing yourself, uh then
17:34you probably shouldn't be there. And for
17:36us, we like to use 11. So I'm going to
17:37say 11xing yourself. Um but that's
17:40really one of the traits that we we look
17:42for. Uh we're looking for the best of
17:44the best. Uh but we also look for people
17:47who are at a time in their career that
17:50see the opportunity ahead of us in the
17:53next few years and genuinely see the
17:56opportunity for this to be a career
17:58defining role for them and to you know
18:01you hear the the saying of do the best
18:03work of their lives or the best work of
18:05your life. Um which is yes that's a
18:08little bit cheesy but that's genuinely
18:10what you what you want to have. But I
18:12would also add to that is that you want
18:13people that see the moment and the
18:16opportunity ahead of them and genuinely
18:19are in a position life-wise where they
18:21say, "Right, this is my career defining
18:23role. This is going to be the most
18:25successful role that I ever have and I'm
18:28going to put absolutely everything into
18:30it." That's the type of person that we
18:32want. So it talks to that I think a lot.
18:34It also talks to the success that we've
18:36had and the signals from the market. I'd
18:40also say that we are moving up segment a
18:44little bit with the to the enterprise
18:46segment where we've had a really strong
18:48PLG motion that has already gone up
18:51segment but we're just doubling down on
18:53up segment as well. Um so I'll give you
18:55my take on the sustainability element of
18:57this because uh coming from different
19:01types of organizations and where you'll
19:03see a lot of I I would say a legacy
19:06traditional approach to sales pressure
19:09of performance which is u pressure from
19:12the top down. Every quarter is the most
19:15important quarter in the company's uh
19:18history. Every month is the most
19:20important month. Uh that's great. every
19:23week is the most important week. Every
19:24deal is the most important deal. That
19:26that only gets you so far. Um, and I'm
19:29not suggesting that you you shouldn't
19:31have uh pressure in an organization. Um,
19:35but that has diminishing returns over
19:37time and it's hard to continue to
19:39replicate, right? It's not sustainable.
19:41If you think about a um a personal
19:44trainer and someone who performs really
19:47well when uh on the Monday mornings when
19:50they have their onetoone with the
19:51personal trainer, they always turn up,
19:53right? Because their personal trainer is
19:55going to be there and the personal
19:56trainer to get the best out of that
19:58person is is yelling or shouting at
20:00them, right? And of course they have an
20:01amazing training session. uh we want the
20:04people that are intrinsically motivated
20:07that train like that no matter what day
20:10of the week it is and whether or not the
20:12personal trainer is there. So in
20:15practice like how does that actually
20:16work? The first thing I look for
20:19personally is that I the the example I
20:23mentioned before. So, are they at a
20:24point in time where they recognize, hey,
20:26I'm going to go all in on this because
20:28there's an opportunity here for this to
20:30be the most successful role of my
20:32career. That is number one that I'll
20:34look for. Uh number two is a personal
20:38connection to the mission. I think
20:41that's really important as well. If you
20:43don't fundamentally believe in the
20:47impact that your technology can have on
20:49customers and the impact it can have on
20:52their customers, if you're not all in on
20:54that, then you're in the wrong space.
20:56And when you when you get people that
20:58are like that, it oozes out of them,
21:01right? So when they're speaking to
21:03customers, it's it's very obvious. So
21:06that that passion is is very important.
21:09Uh and that's infectious as well, right?
21:11that's infectious throughout the team
21:12but also every time you meet with a
21:14customer or a partner or a potential
21:16customer. So I look for finding the
21:18right people at the right time. I will
21:21also look for a personal connection to
21:24the mission and then I will allow a lot
21:29of self- selection
21:31from an A. Let's just take an AE as an
21:33example. Um typically it is okay AE
21:37comes on board. uh they start you get
21:39you give them their quota in this case
21:41it might be 20x right
21:43>> which can be which can be scary which
21:45can be daunting and you look at it and
21:46think how am I going to get there
21:48>> but before even doing that I'd be
21:50sitting down um with said AE who has
21:54kind of just started gone through
21:55onboarding and we give them a challenge
21:59to think about if I could 11x myself
22:03what is the possibility that I could get
22:05to so what is the art of the possible
22:07here. So go away Georgie as an AE and
22:10think about if everything went right and
22:13I 11xed myself and I had support from
22:15all pockets of the organization and
22:17everything went really well. Where could
22:19you get to? And I would like you to come
22:22back and self- select a a bit of a crazy
22:27scary stretch goal is something that you
22:29look at and say, "Oh, that's that's
22:31really challenging, but it's
22:33achievable." But you select that, right?
22:36And then we work together to co-design a
22:38path there. That path needs to be like a
22:42and have clarity on how to get to that
22:43path. And once you do that, you then
22:46have someone who is all in on doing the
22:50best work of their life. Uh they are
22:53connected personally to the mission
22:54which oozes out of them. Uh you also get
22:58uh a self self-deterministic
23:01um outcome for a stretch goal. Um and
23:05then you get as a result of that you
23:07have ownership and accountability and
23:11you have intrinsic motivation for the
23:13individual long-term to get to that
23:15goal, right? And it's not it's not just
23:18necessarily smooth sailing from there. I
23:20wish it was as simple as that, of
23:21course, but your role or my role starts
23:24to become a little bit different.
23:27um rather than every week bringing up a
23:31dashboard and saying, "Hey, you haven't
23:32got this." And you're you're pressuring
23:35those pressure tactics, it is a little
23:37bit different. There's intrinsic
23:38motivation and lots of studies will show
23:40you that intrinsic motivation always
23:43beats the external motivation.
23:44>> Oh, totally. Like if you have a personal
23:46trainer that yells at you to get into
23:48shape, does it feel the same as you
23:50being like, I have a goal and this is
23:52the goal I want and I'm going to fight
23:54for it. It also reminds me of like think
23:57of those amazing portfolio careers,
24:00right? They were at PayPal at this time.
24:03They were at Stripe in the early days.
24:05Like if that doesn't set you on fire of
24:08like, oh man, I wish I was there at that
24:10time and this is the chance to be there
24:12at that time and you're kind of not
24:14excited by that possibility.
24:17>> Exactly. And you can you can see you can
24:18see that straight away, right? Yeah. And
24:20then then the goal from there is your
24:22role or my role from there is uh there's
24:26going to be ups and downs right along
24:27the way but there is there's there's
24:31then there's coaching and I'm I'm
24:32essentially acting as a consultant.
24:34Yeah.
24:34>> And trusted adviser of the team members
24:38that to you know not only that but then
24:40I'm just an extension of their team
24:42>> right and the best AES will they're a
24:45quarterback but they've got an army of
24:48people working with them. you you cannot
24:50be a solo operator AE in this day and
24:53age because you you can't 11X yourself.
24:56So I become an extension of of the
24:59selling team um as do as does the
25:02founder uh of the organization as do um
25:06the cross functional resources that you
25:08have globally. Uh and I'm consulting and
25:11coaching along the way and I'm there
25:13through the ups and the downs. Uh and
25:15the last thing I'll say is like a real a
25:17really strong focus on a weekly cadence
25:21which is very much progress uh driven.
25:24So whatever project you have big project
25:26you have or it might be a big deal that
25:28you're working on whatever your
25:30strategic like big rocks or big bets are
25:33it is a really strong focus on weekly
25:35progress so that you're like inching
25:38inching up the mountain in the scenario
25:40where you've got a big enterprise deal
25:41for example. all those number of roles
25:43that you have available. I hope they
25:45listen to that and they nailed the
25:47interview because there's no excuse.
25:48Now, let's talk about how 11 Labs first
25:52started. I found this really lovely. Uh,
25:55two Polish guys frustrated by badly
25:57dubbed American films. First of all,
25:59true or not true?
26:00>> True.
26:00>> Amazing. I also do my best work when I'm
26:03super frustrated and angry. Tell like
26:06how successful are you guys now? Humble
26:09beginnings. Well, firstly on the dubbing
26:11that dubbing story is really
26:12interesting. I personally I can't even
26:16watch a movie that has that's not not
26:19only that it's not dubbed even if it's
26:20just an English movie that's if the if
26:22the timing is slightly off.
26:25>> That just that grinds my gears, right? I
26:27I cannot even watch it.
26:28>> So I feel for the co-founders.
26:31>> Yeah, exactly. Can you imagine watching
26:33a badly dubbed movie? And not only that,
26:37they because dubbing is actually quite
26:39expensive uh to rep to to produce with
26:43voice with with real humans. Apparently,
26:45what they used to do is just have one
26:48person dubbing an entire film.
26:50>> Oh my god.
26:51>> So, can you imagine not only watching a
26:53dubbed film, but watching a dubbed film
26:56where you only have one person doing the
26:58dubbing? So, for every voice, just one
27:00person.
27:00>> Um,
27:01>> can't imagine. But yeah, it's a really
27:03it's a really interesting uh founding
27:06story. Uh and the guys are geniuses. But
27:09back to your point about how how
27:11successful are we uh we have recently
27:14announced we've passed 500 million in
27:16ARR within 4 years which is crazy crazy
27:21growth especially as I mentioned before
27:24for the number of employees that we
27:26have. Uh that's crazy growth. Uh, and I
27:29think what's even crazier is it feels
27:32like, and I'm only four weeks in, right?
27:33But it feels like we're only just
27:35getting started
27:37>> and the progression from being the, you
27:41know, what's what we're known as the the
27:43world's leading voice AI platform to the
27:47end toend voice AI agents platform. Uh,
27:50that's a really and that's our fastest
27:52growing part of the organization and
27:53that's where we're spending most of our
27:55time with with customers today. and the
27:58addressable market there is is enormous.
28:00Uh so yes, we've been successful to date
28:04globally. I'm excited to bring that to
28:06Australia and New Zealand to expand on
28:08what we have today, but in many ways it
28:11feels like well I've only just got
28:13started but it feels like we as a
28:15company are just getting started.
28:16>> I keep seeing hockey stick curves and
28:18they're never actually hockey stick
28:19curves and this is like you are on that
28:21tippy tip part of the the hockey stick.
28:25>> Yes. Uh, how how do you think Aussies
28:29will respond to voice AI? Like we've
28:31touched upon it a little bit. Um, it
28:34kind of reminds me of robotics almost.
28:36It's like when you talk about the
28:38incredible use cases, amazing, but
28:41what's the initial reaction to voice AI
28:43and and how how do you go to market with
28:46it?
28:47>> Well,
28:48in many ways, a lot of people, I think,
28:50have been burnt a little bit by voice AI
28:53because AI.
28:54>> Yeah. Well, exactly right. And if you
28:56think if you going go back right back to
28:58like 80s and '9s,
29:01uh, and even Alexa and the like, there's
29:04been implementations of voice AI, most
29:08of them sound really robotic. And even
29:10if it doesn't quite sound robotic, the
29:13ability to interact with it as you would
29:16a human has been non-existent for a long
29:19time. So there is certainly an education
29:23piece that um unless you're in the
29:25space, right? If you're in the space,
29:27it's a little bit different. But what's
29:28interesting is uh execs and business
29:31leaders
29:33uh that's the opinion that they have for
29:35the most part, right? They're thinking
29:37about the the Steven Hawking voice or
29:39the bad Alexa experience. Uh and
29:42everyone's had that experience probably
29:44with with voice AI to some degree where
29:46it's that robotic experience. Um, so
29:49there's a big education piece I think in
29:51in the market and there's a there's
29:53really a penny drop moment where when
29:56you demo an experience which is
29:59genuinely humanlike it is expressive
30:04uh and you can feel like you can have an
30:06interaction that is it's it's not the
30:08same as a human, right? Because how
30:10we're sitting with each other right now
30:12is is going is always going to be
30:14different, right? If you think about if
30:16we were doing this even if we were doing
30:18this virtually over Zoom or Google Meet
30:21for example even that would be a
30:23different experience for sure right so
30:24there is there is that element of human
30:27of humanness that will never be
30:30completely replaced but we have gotten
30:32so far with progression of the
30:34technology where you can genuinely have
30:37an extremely expressive humanlike
30:40experience and conversation with AI. So
30:43I think a big part of it is is the
30:46education.
30:47>> The technology is there today. The
30:51challenge is
30:53very once you get down into the detail
30:55and the edge cases and the nuance to do
30:57something at scale and to have it with
31:00low latency that's where it becomes
31:02really challenging like it's a really
31:04challenging problem to solve and that's
31:06why uh we have launched in region
31:08because customers are either solving
31:12this right now or attempting to solve it
31:15and it's a matter of where do we get to
31:18that is good enough to go into
31:20production
31:21where we're not actually.
31:29>> Yeah, that's classic startup, right?
31:30Like we have to get to market, but you
31:32know, if you wait too long, you've
31:34missed it. So, speaking of the
31:36challenges, it reminds me, you know, we
31:39want it to be perfect. We want it to be
31:40exactly like a human conversation, but
31:43then you get accused of, well, now it's
31:45uncanny valley. Do you want to talk a
31:47little bit about voice cloning and and
31:50where where the ethics come into to
31:53having Michael Kane's voice or Lawrence
31:55Olivier's voice? How do you guys address
31:57that and have voices on the platform?
32:00>> Yeah, a great question. So, safety and
32:03uh ethics is really really important to
32:05us and just like with any technology uh
32:07that progresses to a point especially
32:09when you're thinking about AI, you need
32:11to be really careful about how it's
32:12deployed. Um we have voice verification
32:15on the platform. Uh we there are there
32:18is um lots of safeguards that we have in
32:20place. Um so it's incumbent upon the
32:23vendor but also the the company to make
32:24sure that they're getting it right as
32:25well, the customer who is actually
32:27deploying. Um so safety uh and
32:30verification and following those
32:32protocols and guardrails is is is really
32:34important.
32:35>> How did you get the certain voices like
32:38how do you how
32:41>> Yeah. So for celebrities for example, we
32:42have partnerships with celebrities.
32:44>> Wow.
32:45>> Um that recognize uh the tech for good
32:48element of this.
32:50>> Um we also have an amazingly successful
32:53voice marketplace where uh voice actors
32:57or anyone really uh can do a
33:00professional voice clone, upload it to
33:02the platform, and as a customer you get
33:04this amazing library of all different
33:06voices uh to choose from. So I actually
33:09to help me prepare for this
33:11conversation, I actually built a very
33:13quick easy voice AI agent just to do a
33:17bit of prep, right? And so I just chose
33:19a voice. Now I can't go and I can't go
33:22and uh clone your voice
33:25>> um without your consent. So consent is
33:27really important here. Uh so I wouldn't
33:29go and do that because I would need your
33:31consent or you would actually need to go
33:33and upload your voice for me to use on
33:35the on the platform. But the reason why
33:36that's interesting is, you know, voice
33:39actors who are probably, you know, not
33:42as in demand for work as maybe they used
33:45to be. This gives them an opportunity to
33:48uh to earn money on the platform for
33:49every time their voice is used, which
33:51which might be for a product
33:53demonstration video or it might be for
33:55an audio book using their voice. And
33:57there's some amazing stories about um
33:59these voice actors who are in the top 10
34:01voices for 11 Labs and come up to the 11
34:05Labs team at one of the events and
34:06saying, "Hey, like my life has changed
34:08because I've got I'm number three on the
34:10platform and now I'm making X amount of
34:12money through this." So on the tech for
34:14good side, uh that's some really great
34:17stories there.
34:17>> That's brilliant. I'm thinking of um
34:20some audio books that I've listened to
34:21and I just didn't like the voice. I'd
34:23love to just swap that out. Yeah, great.
34:27Michael Kane.
34:28>> Yeah, Michael Kane.
34:30>> Okay. And how much how much do you need?
34:33You know, I've got if if if I gave
34:36permission, I've got a library of
34:38podcast videos. I've got hundreds of
34:40hours. How much do you need to fully
34:42encompass someone's voice on the
34:43platform?
34:45>> Yeah. So, there's a a minimum of 30
34:48seconds just to get something that
34:51sounds similar to your voice. And it's
34:54actually pretty impressive what you can
34:55get with just 30 seconds. So there are
34:58unfortunately lots of circumstances
35:00where you know people lose their voice
35:02or their ability to speak in life and
35:06occasions where if you didn't really see
35:07that coming or you didn't plan ahead
35:09you're not going to do a professional
35:12voice voice clone of course but you can
35:14actually there's been many stories of
35:15people going back through old voicemails
35:17>> or maybe it's a wedding speech that was
35:19caught on camera and to be able to use
35:21that even if it's just 30 seconds to
35:24create a similar voice. Um, that is a
35:27voice clone. Now, that's the that's the
35:29bare minimum, right? We would recommend
35:3260 seconds, you know, one one to two
35:35minutes.
35:35>> So, not much.
35:36>> Yeah. Well, just to get something that
35:37is
35:38>> similar, right? It's it's similar. So,
35:40you can hear it being played back.
35:42>> Uh, and you can hear, okay, that's my
35:44voice. But to do a professional voice
35:46clone, we uh we recommend 1 to two
35:49hours.
35:50>> Yeah.
35:50>> Uh, and that is recorded audio of high
35:53quality audio. Right. So, if we're in a
35:56room like this, we could spend one to
35:57two hours and that's where you get the
36:00genuine voice clone.
36:02>> Um, so yeah, it's it's almost like think
36:04about it as a
36:06>> as I don't know, an artist that is uh
36:09painting a portrait of you. If they
36:11spend 30 seconds looking at you and then
36:15you run away and I'm doing the the
36:16painting, I'm a terrible artist, by the
36:18way, so I would not I would not It would
36:19look nothing like you.
36:21>> That would look like, you know, it would
36:23resemble you to a degree, right? if they
36:25spent two minutes with you, they would
36:26have a better mental picture and then to
36:28do a proper portrait. But if they spent
36:30a few hours with you and actually um
36:33painted the portrait in its entirety
36:35whilst you sat there for 2 hours,
36:37>> that's going to be far more similar. So
36:39that like think about it in that
36:40analogy, you get yeah 30 seconds as a
36:42minimum, but to get a proper
36:44professional voice clone um one to two
36:46hours of high quality audio.
36:48>> That makes sense. Like you know even the
36:50way people laugh is very unique and
36:52things like that.
36:53>> Yes.
36:53>> Incredible. That's still so much less
36:55than I would have assumed. Um, okay.
36:59Listeners might be wondering, what about
37:01scammers? I have given permission. I
37:03have put my voice on the platform and
37:06now, um, a scammer has used that and is
37:10calling up my sister, help bail me out.
37:13I need money or something. Of course,
37:15there's going to be headlines about
37:16this. What are you thinking around voice
37:19AI in general and being used in
37:21nefarious ways? So again the position on
37:2411 lab from 11 Labs perspective is very
37:26strong on this that we want to do
37:27whatever is like possible within you
37:30know within reason uh to not only
37:33prevent things like this happening but
37:34also uh for detection and then shutting
37:38something down if something does happen
37:40right so that's we have a safety team um
37:42that handles that so we're cognizant of
37:45the importance of that
37:46>> with any technology that has the ability
37:49for misuse that's the reality of it and
37:53as I mentioned before it's incumbent
37:54upon the vendor but also the company and
37:57the customer whoever's involved and all
37:59of society really for us to be
38:01safeguarding ourselves around that. Um
38:04I'd say to your example, right? Firstly,
38:07an education piece.
38:09>> Yeah.
38:09>> Which would just gradually which will
38:11happen gradually over time.
38:13>> We all know not to respond to the
38:16Nigerian prince email. Yes. Right.
38:19>> Yes. Caught out a few time. I'm kidding.
38:21I wasn't. Yes.
38:22>> Uh we all know not to respond to that.
38:25Uh so I think it's some similar
38:27education in the market that you know
38:29once voice AI becomes a little bit more
38:32ubiquitous that um there is some
38:34education in the market just to
38:36understand that hey I do need to be a
38:38little bit careful just like we do for
38:40any AI with with deep fakes. So I think
38:43that's that's a component of it. Um but
38:46there's also some common sense right? uh
38:49if your sister in this scenario was
38:52calling you, you would like to think
38:54that you would pick up, right? So on one
38:56hand, it's going to be
38:58>> it's going to be humanlike
39:00>> and it's going to be expressive and
39:01we've come a long way.
39:03>> On the other hand,
39:05>> you know, in that scenario, you should
39:07be able to pick up or hang on,
39:08something's not something is not quite
39:10right here. Uh, and even think about
39:13like I actually find this quite
39:14annoying, but when I think almost every
39:17banking app right now is even though
39:20you've face IDed, right, and you go to
39:23transfer money to someone or pay for
39:25something and they treat you like you're
39:28>> you're an idiot, right? Or or you're an
39:30idiot. It's like, okay, you you have to
39:32like select the use case. Why am I doing
39:34this?
39:35>> Is this really you? Is this So there's
39:37so many like safeguards in place.
39:39Unfortunately, because of scammers and
39:41fraud, we have to go down that path. So
39:44hopefully that will just continue like
39:46the the market will be self-educated to
39:48a degree. But it is a concern, right?
39:50And I I I'll talk to another use case
39:53from a customer that is quite pertinent
39:56to this this topic. We have a customer
39:58using our voices to u provide a service
40:02to uh some of the largest banks and
40:05telos in Australia which is almost like
40:08a reverse dodo type of use case. So what
40:11I mean by that is like in practice if
40:14let's say you call someone let's say
40:16you're a scammer. Okay let's let's play
40:18this out right
40:19>> crazier things have happened. Yes I'm a
40:20scammer roll. Yep. Uh, so you call up
40:23and you try and obtain, you call up a
40:25bank, one of the big four banks, and you
40:27try and obtain some information. Let's
40:29say you've got an email address from
40:30someone or you found some information
40:32online. You're trying to impersonate me.
40:35Uh, so you try and access my account.
40:37Uh, the bank of course has training and
40:39procedures in place to recognize, hey,
40:41this Georgie character a little bit
40:43shady, right? This phone call is a
40:45little bit dodgy
40:46>> and I think this is this is fraudulent,
40:48right? This is a scam. So you would then
40:50get handed off to this voice AI platform
40:54which is using 11 Labs technology um as
40:56part as part of their technology u which
40:59then keeps you on the line for as long
41:01as possible plays along right and
41:06gathers as much intel as possible on you
41:09and what you're trying to do to help
41:12build safeguards in place so it prevents
41:16uh fraud. So really interesting.
41:18>> That's fascinating
41:19>> use case there.
41:20>> It reminds me of, you know, the James
41:21Bond movies. It's like they're trying to
41:23figure out where your location is so
41:24they keep you on the line as long as
41:26possible so that they can figure out
41:28where to torpedo. That is fascinating.
41:31Actually, you might find this
41:32semiinteresting. We had a podcast guest
41:35who had a very successful exit, 180
41:38million or something, and he he said on
41:41the show he's written down a specific
41:44password. No one's allowed to talk, but
41:46he's given it to his boomer parents and
41:48said, "If you get a call from me, cuz
41:50he's got a podcast himself, and it
41:53sounds like me and it sounds like I need
41:55something or want something or whatever,
41:57this is the special safe word." Um, and
42:00you can't say it out loud cuz who knows?
42:02He's he's a little paranoid, but but
42:04isn't it fascinating that people are
42:06starting to re-educate their friends and
42:08loved ones and family members?
42:09>> Well, now that you've said it on the
42:10podcast, uh hopefully they don't track
42:12down that house. Thankfully, he didn't
42:14write it down. Um, but yes, imagine.
42:17Imagine. Yeah. I'm like, is it which
42:18drawer is it? And Yeah. Yes. Exactly.
42:21>> Yeah. Yeah.
42:22>> I love I love that it's just written
42:23down on a piece of paper like going
42:24through with all the technology we have
42:26and just like
42:27>> Yeah.
42:27>> This is the thing though because with
42:29passwords in in folders and things,
42:32things can get hacked.
42:33>> Yeah. All the Bitcoin stories about
42:35>> Exactly.
42:37>> Yeah. Exactly.
42:39>> Fascinating. Um, and last question on
42:41this. When it comes to music, everyone,
42:44you know, we were even talking just
42:45before recording, that's what people
42:47remember when it comes to AI and sound
42:51is um, you know, artists that have since
42:55passed away love to hear an Elvis song
42:58or or, you know, there's you you
43:01mentioned is it creating from scratch or
43:03is it re reimagining existing work? Can
43:07you talk to me a little bit about this
43:08space and are you guys in the music
43:10space as well? We are through our 11
43:12creative platform. Thanks for the plug.
43:15Um so we have we have essentially three
43:17parts of the platform. 11 API, 11
43:19creative, and 11 agents. Um but the 11
43:21creative platform um is designed to do
43:24um just that. You can create there's
43:26lots of use cases where you're not
43:28necessarily going to go and procure a
43:31new song or you're going to have humans
43:32create a new song. It could just be for
43:34a product video and you can create your
43:36own music like um create me this and
43:39it's going to create you the music,
43:40right? So that's part of the part of the
43:41platform.
43:42>> Um, back to your question, Elvis, right?
43:45Elvis, thankfully Elvis has lots of
43:46songs. If you want to listen some Elvis
43:48songs,
43:49>> um, but I think there's two, yeah, there
43:50is two parts to this. One is the
43:52technology that I find incredible
43:54that's, you know, that I think we're
43:56seeing a lot of advantage from right now
43:59is the ability to take something that
44:02has previously been recorded and it
44:04could be an artist like a Tupac or a
44:06Biggie Smalls or a Kurt Cabain. I'm
44:08thinking about all the artists who have
44:10been really successful and popular but
44:12have died early, right?
44:13>> And to to to grab previous recordings,
44:16maybe some unreleased edits and to
44:19create uh whole new tracks um and songs,
44:23of course, with consent of um whoever is
44:27managing their estate, right, is is uh
44:30really valuable to and amazing for fans
44:34and music lovers alike.
44:35>> Um provided it's a it's a nice song,
44:37right? So that's I think that's really
44:39interesting technology that I think has
44:42incredible value.
44:43>> Who would you want? Who would you be
44:45who'd be on your bring them back list?
44:49>> I would say I would say Kurt. I find I
44:52find Kurt really really interesting and
44:54intriguing. I'm a sucker for uh haunting
44:58painful voices in music.
45:00>> Seattle vibes.
45:01>> So I love like the the I love the
45:03Unplugged in New York album for example.
45:05Um but anyway I think there's I think he
45:07died at 27. That's like sort of that
45:08golden age where you need to make sure
45:10you get past.
45:11>> Um, so I would say Kurt
45:13>> uh is my answer to that.
45:15>> Yeah.
45:15>> Yeah.
45:16>> Let's talk about enterprise companies
45:18because normally when I think of AI and
45:20speed and um disruption even
45:26think of enterprises on the opposite
45:28end, you know, um perhaps you know less
45:33open to change and disruption. What what
45:37are you finding and before that you've
45:40worked at Salesforce, you've worked at
45:41Newscore. Do you think these companies
45:44can adapt to this time in AI and what
45:47what would be the signs that that you
45:49think that they're on the right path?
45:51>> Bit to unpack here. So I'll you might
45:53have to remind me of the second part of
45:54that question because I'll go I'll dig
45:56into the first one first.
45:58Look, I think Australia is a really
46:00interesting market where it's obviously
46:04a relatively small market compared to
46:06other regions in the world where for the
46:08most part there's two or three sometimes
46:11four big players in every industry
46:13vertical and sure there's some
46:15challenger or digital brands underneath
46:16that but with that um it means that
46:20there's a lot of safety and security of
46:24being in that top three top four Uh, and
46:28lots of those organizations, if you go
46:30back through the last 10, 20, 30 years,
46:33you know, going back in the day, they're
46:34buying lots of IBM, they're buying lots
46:36of Microsoft. There's lots of safe bets
46:39those organizations can make and have
46:42made in the past. On one hand, I'll say
46:44that I think what you're seeing with
46:46Genai is the I think it is shifting. The
46:50market is shifting in my observation. I
46:52referenced before the the example where
46:55little proof of concepts sort of go to
46:57die in one pocket of the organization
46:59because with all with with great intent
47:01it gets a little bit too hard basket. Uh
47:04my observation is and speaking to
47:06customers is that is changing over time.
47:09There are lots of really progressive uh
47:12CTO's CIOS out there in the market. I
47:15think part of the challenge is that the
47:18um reluctance to uh to really go for an
47:22edge use case or to do something
47:24different or unique means that if they
47:26get something wrong the impact is for
47:29their personal brand but also for the
47:30organization can be quite damaging and
47:33we've seen examples um with AI chat bots
47:36and voice AI even recently where um that
47:39has that has been the case. So I think
47:42that that is a that's a challenge but I
47:44think we're seeing a bit of a shift in
47:45the market where organizations have gone
47:47from hey let's try this over here if it
47:50doesn't work that's all right let's
47:51continue to actually we really recognize
47:55that if we let's take a contact center
47:57for example I think there's a
47:59recognition in the market that the
48:01customer experience there's two parts to
48:03this the customer experience of calling
48:06or getting a call from a call center I
48:09think we could all agree is subpar for
48:13the vast majority, right? That's not
48:15that's maybe putting it nicely. Okay.
48:18>> Um and with that, not only is it subpar,
48:20but there's a huge exorbitant cost to
48:23having a contact center, especially if
48:26it is onshore. And sometimes that's just
48:28an outsourced function that is offshore.
48:30But even so, uh it could be $3 to4
48:34Aussie for a phone call, right, to
48:37handle one of these customer inquiries.
48:40And most of the time the customer
48:42inquiry is probably not even complex
48:44enough to warrant having that
48:46conversation.
48:47>> Now this is an area where there is
48:50clearly everyone would agree lowest
48:52hanging fruit for for voice AI. Uh my
48:56observation is that like voice AI will
48:58complement right will complement humans
49:01in a call center. There is a absolutely
49:05a requirement and a need for humans to
49:08persist in the customer experience. But
49:11there is underneath that like that's the
49:13the high level u really important VIP
49:16touch point or complex case which is
49:18humor. But really when you start peeling
49:20back underneath that, you start to get
49:22to the area where you can actually scale
49:25of significance and provide a better
49:28customer experience which should be the
49:31end goal at a fraction of the cost.
49:34Having said that, there is a lot of um
49:37there I think there's a sentiment in the
49:40media and the public that any
49:42organization who looks to repurpose
49:45staff um by implementing AI, that's a
49:50really dangerous path I think publicly
49:51for organizations to go through. So what
49:53I'm observing at the moment is an
49:55interesting time in the market where the
49:58technology is now there to not handle
50:00every use case but to complement humans
50:04yet I think there is you know there is a
50:06really high bar that companies in
50:09Australia and New Zealand have when it
50:11comes to getting it right because the
50:12ramifications of getting it wrong are
50:16probably disproportionate to the real
50:19life to in my opinion what the
50:21ramifications should
50:23100% agree. It's like this um
50:25intolerance for failure and we see in
50:28the US failure is just part of it. We
50:30see it in the startup ecosystem like
50:32yeah I'll build something else. It
50:34doesn't mean that I've made a a choice
50:37that uh makes me a bad entrepreneur.
50:40It's just you try things, they work,
50:42they don't work. I love that answer. I
50:44also love the way you approached it.
50:45This is a an old-fashioned traditional
50:49um enterprise type offering.
50:52But it's it's bad. It's bad right now.
50:54So the risk tolerance should be higher
50:58of trying something in AI and but yes
51:01there are some companies companies that
51:04that risk tolerance is low and um yeah
51:08hopefully I think that is changing and
51:10hopefully that continues to change here
51:12in market.
51:13>> Yeah and I think we'll we will get
51:14there. We will get there. I think that
51:16the first thought goes to what exists
51:20today with a human. But there is so much
51:23else to consider when you think about
51:26okay well it the use cases where it
51:28doesn't make sense just commercially for
51:31you to invest in humans to be doing
51:34something right either speaking to
51:36someone over the phone or engaging with
51:38the customer. There's so much sort of
51:40beneath the ice if you think about call
51:41center is the tip of the iceberg.
51:43underneath that, underneath the water,
51:45there's this huge remainder of the
51:47iceberg where voice AI can add so much
51:51to a customer experience. And I think
51:53we're going to get there pretty quickly
51:54where, you know, everyone's playing with
51:56with with AI personally.
51:58>> Yet, I think even just going beyond
52:01basic Q&A still has a way to go. But
52:04regardless, basic Q&A, AI for basic Q&A
52:07and AI for agents if you're a little bit
52:10progressive, that is going to continue
52:13to proliferate around um uh individuals
52:16who are using it for personal life. I
52:17mentioned Michael Kane, our butler
52:19that's on the fridge. Um, very soon it
52:22will be normal to have your own AI
52:25assistant that you can speak to that not
52:28only gives you advice and proactively
52:30recommends things, but can go and
52:32actually take action um with your
52:34permission with the right guard rails of
52:36course. And that action will often be
52:39speaking or connecting with a brand or
52:42an organization to potentially go and
52:44buy something or make a change to a
52:46flight. And on the other end of that is
52:50sometimes a human but also more and more
52:54so will be an AI agent as well.
52:57>> Uh and like I'm not talking about
52:59anything too futuristic. Um that will
53:02happen. It's a matter of how quickly
53:05that happens but that's the experience
53:07that companies need to prepare for
53:10>> on that. There are so many uh head of
53:13AIS now at at enterprise like this
53:15didn't exist this role a few years ago.
53:18You are the um spokesperson for
53:21everything AI related. What would you
53:23say to those heads of AI at whatever
53:27enterprise company and how would you
53:29recommend they consider voice AI for
53:32their business? I know I'm being very
53:34broad here.
53:36Well, I would expect this head of AI to
53:39be um far more technically versed on AI
53:42and know exactly how to deploy than me.
53:44Uh but I will always come at it from a
53:47business lens and a business point of
53:49view. I think the critical thing about a
53:51head of AI or however AI is deployed
53:53within an organization is it's a
53:56fundamental part of the organization.
53:58And I've just remembered the second part
53:59of that question you asked me before,
54:00right? which we come back to. It needs
54:01to be a fundamental part of the
54:03organization and it needs to your
54:05organization needs to be structured in a
54:07way where it's not just off to the side.
54:09I think that's really really critical
54:11and as an organization this which is
54:13partly answering your previous question
54:16uh like a Salesforce which I think has
54:17done a good job at doing this which is
54:20really identifying early on that if you
54:22don't fundamentally
54:25try to build rebuild your organization
54:27from the ground up to be genuinely AI
54:30first and an agentic company then you're
54:34going to be left behind. Uh so I would
54:37look at it uh to the head of AI very
54:40much from a business lens
54:43because the AI part of it is a bit of a
54:46misnomer. I'd be thinking about as the
54:48organization at sea level as the board
54:51what are the business drivers that are
54:53going to take us from here to here in
54:55the next 5 years and then we look at
54:58okay well how are we going to achieve
54:59that? uh no you just simply cannot can
55:03no longer can you throw an army of
55:05people at the problem. That has always
55:07been really the way to you either
55:09acquire a new business to get into a new
55:11line um or you hire more AES to bring to
55:16market or you hire a different that's
55:18typically been the approach. uh we can
55:22no longer do that right so it is how do
55:24we um how can we fundamentally transform
55:28the business number one so we're AI
55:31first but secondly what do we want to
55:33achieve as an organization and how can
55:36AI power that how can AI drive that I
55:39would strongly urge that it is led by
55:41the business uh you have business
55:44technology and maybe AI head of AI maybe
55:46in between there if it's led by
55:49technology And the technology
55:51organization is a fantastic organization
55:53that adds a lot of value to the value to
55:55the company. But if it's not led by
55:57business, then you could get um safety
56:01and security and guard rails which are
56:03very important, don't get me wrong, but
56:05might override a business impact and a
56:08business outcome that means you get left
56:09behind. And even that change management
56:11piece like if if it's if they're in a
56:13silo or if they're not given autonomy to
56:16make change I do feel for you know nice
56:19role title but you don't have the full
56:21support of the business sometimes which
56:23is hard.
56:23>> Yeah. And it's horses for courses,
56:25right? There's some organizations where
56:28they do have like that head of AI type
56:30of role plays a really integral part to
56:32the organization that is well connected
56:34at every part of the organization is
56:35genuinely driving change and
56:38transformation with AI, right? There's
56:40others that it won't be the case. Um, so
56:42it's just about getting that balance
56:43right.
56:44>> Fully agree. Love how much time you've
56:46spent as an executive to see that. Nate,
56:50are you ready for the spicy part of the
56:52interview? The rapid fire.
56:54>> Absolutely.
56:54>> Yeah. I feel like you're I feel like
56:56you're warmed up now.
56:57>> Yep. Ready to go.
56:59>> Damian, podcasting is my one job. You
57:02guys have very realistic conversations
57:04on the platform that I can't tell the
57:07difference between real humans and
57:08those. Should I be looking for a new
57:11job?
57:11>> No. I'm a big believer in the craft.
57:14>> Okay.
57:14>> The craft matters and this is where the
57:16craft applies. So, no. Not for now. Ask
57:18me in 10 years again.
57:20>> I'll ask you in 2 years if you're still
57:22hiring. Is there anything about the
57:25Aussie market that we underell ourselves
57:28on? I was really mean before about like
57:30this inability to take on failure and
57:33and be okay with that. But what are we
57:35what are we better than we think we are
57:36at?
57:37>> I think in general we have a lot of
57:39amazing technology here and and
57:41startups. I think we need to be louder
57:43and prouder. I think human nature in
57:45Australia is to be like humble and keep
57:48things under wraps. I think sometimes we
57:49need to do the opposite.
57:50>> Agree. Uh is tall poppy syndrome maybe
57:54holding us back do you think? Especially
57:56in technology
57:58>> in society in general 100%.
58:01>> I think it's a bit of a scourge on
58:02society to be to be honest.
58:04>> Agree. I'm over it. So over it. What
58:06would you say to people that you know
58:09you've you've had your career in Sydney
58:11and an incredible career at the top
58:13companies.
58:15What what if I said oh you should have
58:17spent that time in the US. Do you think
58:18that's true or or the UK or somewhere
58:21else?
58:22>> I would firstly encourage anyone to
58:24travel overseas and experience that uh
58:26as far as like starting a company and I
58:28mean you don't have to physically be
58:30there from the start. I think at a
58:32certain point of time there needs to be
58:33an expansion into those markets. But as
58:36an individual, you don't necessarily
58:38need to make that hop. I think you can
58:39make it work today without having to
58:42physically relocate.
58:44>> It's surprising how controversial that
58:46opinion is, but I have been hearing it
58:48more and more from successful people in
58:51business and startups and the like that
58:53I'm well traveled. I don't know why I
58:55need to physically relocate. Would you
58:58agree with that? Again, it depends on
59:01the look, really it depends on the on
59:03the circumstance really. Uh, but I think
59:07you you can it's been proven you can
59:08have a successful Australian business,
59:10an Australian tech company starting here
59:12and staying here. You know, look at look
59:15at cliff and mill uh look at Atlassian.
59:18Clearly, there needs to be um a stake in
59:20the ground in the in the US at some
59:22point and in Europe. But how that
59:24happens and how you I guess uh massage
59:27that it can be different ways of doing
59:29that, right? You don't have to move
59:30there.
59:31>> Love. Hire slow, fire quick is a common
59:34rhetoric. Kind of wish I took that on
59:36two months ago myself. What are you
59:39looking for in this hiring phase? And
59:41how you don't have much time. How are
59:44you going to get the best talent?
59:47>> So, I answered a little bit of this
59:48before of like what we look for. Uh I
59:51don't think there's a hard and fast of
59:53this is exactly like we've got a
59:54playbook of how we hire, of course. Um,
59:56but we're looking for all the things I
59:57mentioned before and you can make pretty
59:59fast decisions. There's a technical like
1:00:02element that you need to pass as well
1:00:04for most roles. Um, but yeah, I think
1:00:07almost within for me within the first
1:00:10meeting
1:00:11I would say that 90% of the time I can
1:00:15pick whether someone is going to get to
1:00:16the last stage.
1:00:18>> Fascinating.
1:00:19>> Yeah. Is there any personal traits or
1:00:23anything they say that you're like
1:00:26either
1:00:27no way or I think they're on to
1:00:29something or is it a gut check?
1:00:33>> I shouldn't say it's a gut check.
1:00:35>> But there's a big let's let's be honest.
1:00:37The reality is when you meet with people
1:00:39and you have a conversation with them
1:00:40and you look at their experience and you
1:00:42you they're ticking these boxes that I
1:00:44mentioned before,
1:00:45>> I would say within the first 15 minutes
1:00:47of meeting with them, um you can tell
1:00:49whether this person is going to make it
1:00:50to the final stage. Not necessarily
1:00:52whether you will hire them, but whether
1:00:53they can make it to the final stage.
1:00:55>> Fascinating.
1:00:56>> Yeah.
1:00:57>> Last question. Which popular enterprise
1:01:00company may fail if they don't adopt AI,
1:01:03voice or otherwise?
1:01:05>> Oh jeez.
1:01:08Uh, well, that's pretty tough to answer
1:01:11to throw a company under the bus knowing
1:01:13as well that we're launching into
1:01:14region. We probably want to speak to
1:01:15them. But I I'm going to say I'm going
1:01:17to cheat a little bit and say give you
1:01:20>> an industry the BO industry. So if
1:01:23>> if you are not
1:01:25>> what's BO
1:01:26>> business process outsourcing?
1:01:27>> I don't know what that is.
1:01:30>> That's okay. That could be the call
1:01:32center example. Okay,
1:01:33>> that I mentioned before is is just one
1:01:35example of that. It's the concept of
1:01:37outsourcing business processes
1:01:40>> uh to an external organization. So, this
1:01:42is an obvious one. So, I'm cheating a
1:01:44little bit by saying this, but if you're
1:01:45not fundamentally transforming your
1:01:47business to be AI first and voice AI
1:01:49first, frankly, then you won't survive.
1:01:51I think the the other the other one that
1:01:53falls into that bucket as well, but
1:01:55that's that's that's um adjacent is even
1:01:59the consulting and VC world. like that
1:02:02is turning upside down as well because
1:02:04the typical way of doing business is uh
1:02:08is being challenged.
1:02:10>> I agree and anyone that's seen Devil
1:02:12Wears Prada 2 will be seeing this play
1:02:15out in real life which is fascinating.
1:02:17>> I'm not one of those people.
1:02:18>> It's uh it's your homework.
1:02:20>> Yes. Okay, I'll put that on tonight.
1:02:22>> Damian, this has been such a pleasure,
1:02:24such an honest chat. Thank you for
1:02:25answering even the spicier questions. I
1:02:27really appreciate it. Uh how do people
1:02:30follow you? How do people find the
1:02:31roles? Any shout outs for the end of the
1:02:34interview?
1:02:34>> Yeah, well, I'm not a massive social
1:02:35media person, so there's only one place
1:02:37to follow me, which is LinkedIn. Uh, but
1:02:40yeah, as I mentioned before, we are
1:02:41hiring at the moment. We're looking at
1:02:43we are looking for the best of the best
1:02:45talent. Um, so we're hiring at the
1:02:47moment. We've got lots of roles open.
1:02:48You can follow me on LinkedIn. And
1:02:51anyone who has an interest in voice AI,
1:02:53um, be it at a large enterprise or
1:02:55otherwise, would love to have a
1:02:56conversation.
1:02:56>> Thank you so much.
1:02:57>> Thank you, Georgie.
1:03:01Thank you so much for listening to In
1:03:03the Blink of AI. If you want to go
1:03:05deeper on anything we've spoken about
1:03:07today, I write a weekly substack called
1:03:10Attention Is All I Need. Yes, it's
1:03:12hilarious, it's a pun, and essentially I
1:03:16go into AI rants, tech news, events I'm
1:03:20going to, and more. It's bite-sized, and
1:03:23I hear it's awesome. Uh the link is in
1:03:26the show notes below.

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