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In Broad daylight | episode two | full police interrogation — Transcript

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0:00It's been only a few hours since
0:02Baltimore police responded to the call
0:04of a deceased person. It was found in an
0:07abandoned building just off Seventh
0:09Street in Brooklyn, Maryland. The
0:12building had intentionally been set
0:13ablaze, but the police are still able to
0:16ID the person as 29-year-old Tiffany
0:19Jones, a woman who was abducted the day
0:21before in broad daylight right in front
0:23of her husband and little girl. Through
0:27several interviews, the police have
0:28narrowed the suspect list down to a man
0:30named Philly, aka [music]
0:32Willard Turner, and a woman named Bobby
0:35Barncourt, the suspected driver of the
0:382018 Silverado that was seen at the
0:40point of abduction and that was captured
0:42on surveillance in the vicinity of the
0:44burnedout home. Billy, staying true to
0:47his nickname, flees the city. And out of
0:51all places, he goes back to
0:52Philadelphia. But Bobby is found near
0:55the truck and the police would bring her
0:58in to question her. They now know what
1:00happened to Tiffany Jones. The only
1:02question they have now is, "But why?
1:12[music]
1:17All right, everybody. Welcome back.
1:19Welcome back. Welcome to episode two.
1:21Thanks so much for all the comments and
1:23the likes on the video last night. I
1:24appreciate you guys ramping that stuff
1:26up so I can drop this for everybody. But
1:29we're going to take care of a little
1:30family business before we keep going.
1:32Man, they were coming for your boy
1:33yesterday. They're coming for me. This
1:36whole Clive Davis thing, everybody's
1:38like, "Ah, you put up a picture of Clive
1:40Davis." All right. All right. All right.
1:41Let's go ahead and put this to bed right
1:43now. Let's take a look. We put up on the
1:45screen. This is This is Clive Davis and
1:49this is Michelle's dad.
1:51All right. Now, I see some sim
1:52similarities. They look very much like
1:55each other, but do you think that's the
1:57same person? This is the actual obituary
2:00right here for David Bowen. So, I don't
2:03know. This is the only picture of him
2:06online
2:08that I can find. I mean, he died in
2:102002, kind of before we really put a lot
2:12of stuff online. So,
2:15I mean, could they have accidentally
2:17grabbed Clive Davis's picture and put it
2:19up there? maybe, but I think that he
2:22just looks like Clive Davis, so
2:25it is what it is. All right, now the
2:28interview coming up. She um Bobby speaks
2:32soft at first. It gets better as the
2:34interview goes along. The first couple
2:36minutes a little difficult to understand
2:38her. They do repeat her quite a bit.
2:40They even tell her to speak up. Um but I
2:43did subtitle it and it does get more
2:45clear as the interview ramps up. It gets
2:47a little contentious. So, you know,
2:49you'll definitely hear what's going on.
2:51I appreciate you being back. Let's dive
2:53in.
2:58>> How you doing, babe?
3:00[clears throat]
3:01>> Making paper football.
3:03>> Like back in school
3:05>> pretty much.
3:13>> Lo. [clears throat]
3:14>> Yeah. Um, my partner's going to come in
3:17with me.
3:19Just grabbing some water. That's
3:22probably him right there.
3:24Hey, what's up, D? How are you? He is.
3:27How are you?
3:27>> All right. All right. All right. All
3:29right. You already did all this?
3:30>> No, I just brought him in. Okay, cool.
3:32Thank you. Yep.
3:33>> All right.
3:38>> Real quick, let me get your first name.
3:41>> B.
3:43What?
3:44I E I
3:46>> E. And your last name, dear?
3:48>> B A R N.
3:49>> Mhm.
3:51>> C I D.
3:52>> Okay. So, what I'm going to do next is
3:55I'm going to talk to you about why you
3:57were brought down here. Okay. Now,
3:59[clears throat] before I talk to you,
4:00I'm going to before I talk to you about
4:03the circumstances that led us to bring
4:05you down here, I'm going to advise you
4:08of your explanation of rights.
4:11>> And the rights are read.
4:14It has been it has been a long time
4:18since I've ever seen
4:21this here.
4:22>> Now, I left this kind of in the video
4:23because he's going to kind of use this
4:25to build rapport. Um, what happened was
4:28is she was in the room making paper
4:30footballs. The first detective saw her
4:32and says, "Hey, what are you doing?" And
4:34she said, "Making paper football." Oh,
4:35kind of like back at school.
4:37So he sees the paper footballs on the
4:39table and he's going to kind of use it
4:41to try to build some rapport and kind of
4:43bring her to a place where hopefully
4:45she'll tell the truth. Be a little
4:47difficult with this one, but he'll give
4:48it a shot.
4:50>> And you know, you know how we used to um
4:54I don't know how you do. I know you made
4:56this, but we used to play football with
4:58these. All right. And what I would
5:01>> Well, you push it. Hit the hit it back.
5:04Hit the thing back. You push it. Right.
5:07You push it and then it's got to hang
5:08off.
5:09>> You got to hang off the thing.
5:11>> Yep.
5:11>> You got to hang off the thing. Right.
5:14>> When did you learn to do this?
5:17>> I don't know.
5:18>> How old were you?
5:19>> Middle school.
5:21>> Right.
5:21>> I just remember going middle school and
5:23high school.
5:23>> What school?
5:24>> Middle school and high school.
5:25>> Middle school and high school. Bobby,
5:27guess what? this this uh the purpose of
5:30you coming down here of course I'm sure
5:32on your own you could probably conclude
5:34to have some idea but um a
5:38>> right a lot of things in your life has
5:40probably been as a result of decisions
5:43that you made in terms of with substance
5:46abuse speaking of which are you under
5:48the influence of any narcotics or
5:50anything that would impact your
5:52understand your ability to understand
5:54the rights that we that you just read
5:57anything since barely
5:58Okay. So, you sober.
6:00>> Okay.
6:01>> But you you realize what your day is and
6:03you realize where you are.
6:05>> Yeah.
6:05>> Right.
6:06>> You can see that I'm a a black male
6:08here, white male, right?
6:10>> Yes.
6:10>> All right. Or Italian male or whatever
6:12the hell. But listen, so what we want to
6:16do is we're going to go a lot of places.
6:18We're going to talk about what happened,
6:20what brought you down here, and
6:22ultimately hopefully we can get you back
6:24to this frame of mind when you used to
6:26make these when you were that girl
6:30because that girl still resides in you.
6:33Okay? But she's been taken over by
6:35probably some of the decisions and
6:37substances that you have put into your
6:38body. Going back to
6:41Huh?
6:42>> Not really.
6:43>> You ch
6:45not really.
6:46>> Okay. Not really. Okay. Let's go back to
6:49uh um yesterday. What did you do
6:52yesterday?
6:54>> What?
6:54>> Yesterday was Tuesday.
6:58>> Yes.
6:58>> You had your father's truck.
7:00>> There was a lot of I didn't I didn't
7:02have the trucks. I was parked on six.
7:04>> Excuse me.
7:05>> I parked the truck on 6 the day that I
7:08dropped him off.
7:09>> Can you speak up? Cuz I I'm up kind of
7:11hard. Huh? The day I dropped him off, I
7:15parked it on six and it hadn't
7:17>> Nobody else is down here, so you can
7:18speak up.
7:19>> I'm saying that the day I went to Dollar
7:23General, I left it [clears throat] on. I
7:25left it Well, I don't know if it's six.
7:27I took I went down and bust the door.
7:29>> So the fifth or sixth.
7:31>> I'm not 100% familiar with it.
7:33>> Okay. So you went to the Dollar General.
7:36What Dollar General? Where is it
7:37located?
7:37>> One beside Ro.
7:41>> Okay. And which street is that? I didn't
7:42fully.
7:44This is the thing. I dropped it off
7:46before that. He dipped off with somebody
7:48else.
7:49>> You dropped who off
7:50>> and I parked at the Dollar General
7:52>> and then went around it.
7:53>> Who's him?
7:55>> You right now.
7:57>> I don't know.
7:57>> No, you guys,
7:59>> right? Uh-huh.
8:03>> Come on, baby. This is recording day.
8:05>> I don't know.
8:06>> Okay.
8:07>> His real name.
8:08>> You don't know his real name. Okay.
8:10What's his nickname? What do you know?
8:12>> There's all kinds. There's Philly Keys.
8:15>> Okay.
8:16>> It's two different.
8:17>> Okay. Well, let's start with the first
8:18one you said. What's the first one you
8:19said?
8:20>> Philly.
8:20>> Philly
8:22>> as in like the city. Philadelphia.
8:24>> Yeah.
8:24>> I'm saying Philly. You said You said
8:26Philly, right? Okay. So, he was with you
8:28yesterday in your truck.
8:30>> He was No, he went in trouble with me
8:33yesterday.
8:33>> Okay. Well, talk to me then. What
8:35happened? You went to the Family Dollar
8:36store on OT Street.
8:38We the bando that I got high in. He
8:42would come in and out of
8:43>> the venue.
8:45>> The bando.
8:46>> The bando. Okay. The house. Okay.
8:48>> Coming in and out of
8:49>> Mhm.
8:49>> because he sold drugs.
8:51>> I don't smoke crack. I just do the he
8:53doesn't have dope.
8:54>> I know him by some girl.
8:56>> Nobody else cuz that's how you make
8:58money.
8:59>> So that's how I know him. But he goes in
9:02and out of
9:05>> he goes in with y'all already there.
9:08He's just what I was doing.
9:09>> Mhm.
9:10>> Like 20 other people.
9:11>> Okay. So he he goes into the abandoned
9:14abandoned house when you get high.
9:16>> And what did he come in there to do?
9:20>> He just chose.
9:21>> How long have you known?
9:23>> How long have you known him?
9:26>> Oh,
9:29the exact I don't know the exact time
9:31frame. Couple years maybe. Not know him.
9:35Know him know him. Mhm.
9:37>> Maybe 3 or 4 days.
9:41>> But you've known him a couple years. But
9:43you I'm just known him.
9:45>> Mhm.
9:47>> But for some reason disappeared.
9:51>> He disappeared.
9:52>> Yeah. He wasn't around [clears throat]
9:53for a while.
9:54>> Mhm.
9:54>> So
9:56I don't know. Well, he wasn't around too
9:59no and he came back around and he just
10:01started being around and everybody that
10:03you hung out with
10:04>> and everybody just what
10:05>> that you hung out with.
10:07>> Okay. So, so recently you all started
10:09hanging out a lot.
10:10>> Mhm. [clears throat]
10:11>> Okay. And um what was the extent of your
10:15relationship?
10:17>> We friends. That's it.
10:19>> Okay.
10:19>> We never did anything like that.
10:21>> So, where would you all go
10:22>> to hang out?
10:23>> To bando.
10:24>> Huh? talked to the vendor right there
10:26next to me.
10:27>> Okay. So, what made you go to the Family
10:29Dollar store yesterday?
10:32>> Yes, it was yesterday. Um he
10:36the girl um the girl you know you
10:41already know the story so go ahead.
10:43>> She stole from a bunch of people
10:45>> including me.
10:46>> Mhm.
10:47>> I get calls saying I know where your
10:49phone is.
10:49>> Mhm. if you take me down there. Well, I
10:52just told her baby dad's the one that
10:53stole it. And he had [clears throat]
10:54evidence that he pawned it for 500.
10:58>> Okay.
10:58>> You know what I mean? So, he shows me
11:01the text. He says, "If you take me down
11:02there, I'll go spot him and I'll take
11:04him up there and get So, I dropped him
11:07off." He went down the alley and then I
11:09went and fart and then he called me and
11:12then that's when you denied that
11:14happened. And as I pull over to Yway,
11:17he's like, "Stop." They got out and he
11:20said something about going to get
11:22somebody and bounced.
11:23>> Going to get some what?
11:24>> Going to get somebody, but I don't know
11:25who he's talking about. He lied to me
11:27the whole time.
11:28>> Okay. [clears throat]
11:29>> That I think he lied to me so I wouldn't
11:31know what was going on. He's not going
11:32to jeopardize his life on me
11:34>> for me to get tie in church on the
11:37street. I mean, really,
11:38>> he's not going to jeopardize his life on
11:40me.
11:40>> Okay.
11:40>> He's really not going to.
11:42>> Well, it actually Well, I kind of beg to
11:45differ with you on that. And reason
11:47being is because what I'm what I'm not
11:50going to bet my life on is somebody like
11:52me or somebody that gets up and go to
11:55work every day and it tries to live
11:58>> what I'm saying is he's not going to bet
12:01on me. You know what I mean?
12:03>> He's not going to bet on me if I'm on
12:05getting high and streame
12:08>> he's not going to trust that.
12:09>> Okay.
12:09>> So he lied to me the whole time.
12:11>> So
12:11>> I had no clue till I got hit with it.
12:15>> Until you got hit with it. I was told by
12:17Marine and I don't know the other girl's
12:19name.
12:20>> Mhm.
12:20>> She was just with her.
12:22>> Okay. So the the the fact of the matter
12:24is so you went to the Dollar General
12:26store yesterday and you were called down
12:28there by who? [snorts]
12:31>> I don't know. I didn't
12:32>> You just said his name.
12:33>> I No, I wasn't called. Well, this is the
12:35thing. I didn't get the personal call to
12:37go down there.
12:38>> Mhm.
12:39>> It was somebody else called him. I don't
12:42know who it was.
12:43>> Call when you say name. Somebody called
12:45who?
12:46>> When he called when Billy talked to
12:48Paul.
12:48>> Uhhuh.
12:48>> He got a call saying that I guess
12:51>> Butcher Face was down there.
12:53>> Who?
12:54>> You know her name.
12:54>> You know what you're saying.
12:55>> We know y'all friends. Your father even
12:57told y'all friends.
12:58>> I believe it's Tiffany. She goes by
13:00Britney. Tiffany.
13:01>> Okay. What do they call her?
13:02>> Britney or Tiffany, but I think it's
13:03>> pretty or Tiffany.
13:04>> Pretty. Tiffany or Britney? She
13:07>> Okay. Mhm.
13:08>> Um,
13:10yeah. We That was like a week ago. We we
13:13we just signed a 24-hour waiver at
13:15Walmart.
13:17>> Well,
13:18Walmart.
13:19>> What happens at Walmart?
13:20>> We stole a bunch of We were trying to
13:22steal. I was telling her that loss
13:24prevention, she still trying to go out
13:26the door and we got busted.
13:27>> Okay.
13:27>> So, loss prevention got us and made us
13:30sign a waiver that we're not going to
13:31come into Walmart for 24 hours. So when
13:34I go to take her home,
13:37she gets out the truck and she goes she
13:41goes to the right cuz I dropped her
13:43offer. She was the right. I wasn't
13:46watching her. I got out on the alley
13:48alleyway did a pill at his annex that
13:50day. So I nodded out [clears throat] and
13:52my mean of nod. I guess I went out and
13:56the boy blackf found me woke me up and
13:59said, "Yo, I thought you were dead."
14:01Mind you, that's when everything came up
14:03missing.
14:04>> Like
14:06>> a gun.
14:07>> A a gun.
14:08>> A gun that he put in my safe. I didn't
14:10touch it.
14:10>> Who's he?
14:11>> Philly.
14:12>> Philly put a gun in your safe. Where's
14:14the safe?
14:15>> In my dad's truck.
14:16>> Okay. Okay.
14:18>> Okay.
14:18>> Underneath of that.
14:20>> Okay. What else?
14:22>> Nothing was in the safe besides that.
14:23>> Okay.
14:24>> On my lap. Well, it was the keys were
14:26out of the ignition in my lap. So,
14:29somebody took the keys out of my
14:30ignition in my lap and then they took
14:34the
14:34>> [clears throat]
14:34>> um
14:36I had a pill bottle and I had a red
14:39thing. My dad's got the red thing. The
14:41only thing left was the red thing empty
14:42and on my lap.
14:45So,
14:46>> what's the red thing?
14:47>> It's a little red container.
14:49>> Okay.
14:49>> It's a little red container I put inside
14:51of a pill bottle because I had two
14:53different I had two different drugs. So
14:56I had two different boys I didn't want
14:57to mix up because I don't trust too many
14:59people and I just I separate. So I had
15:02money and a bigger one with four girls
15:06and like two girls in the red one.
15:08>> So you wake up
15:09>> and your gun's gone. Drugs are gone.
15:11>> Like black woke me up and I like freaked
15:13out for a second. I said, "What are you
15:14doing?" Cuz I heard the keys come out of
15:16the ignition. That's what I heard. I
15:19think he physically did. They shut just
15:21shut the truth of the exhaust. I don't
15:23know. But he was like, "I thought you
15:25were dead. I just walked by. You're
15:26passed out." Blah, blah, blah.
15:29>> So,
15:30>> is that the only thing missing?
15:31>> Really?
15:34>> Yeah.
15:36Well, the drugs, the money, my phone.
15:39>> I had a new iPhone 10.
15:41>> Dad went missing.
15:42>> You have what?
15:43>> iPhone 10.
15:43>> Uhhuh.
15:44>> But
15:44>> where'd you get that iPhone from?
15:46>> My dad.
15:46>> Your dad?
15:47>> My dad bought it. Yeah. He we tried
15:49taxing it trying to pay back the money
15:51to get it and all that and we just
15:53couldn't get. So what he pretty much did
15:56was pawn me
15:59into giving him a ride
16:02and then lied to me about what he was
16:04doing the entire time
16:07pretty much. And it came down to this.
16:10>> Okay. When is this is this immediately
16:13after you wake up you were talking about
16:15here or when do you meet back up with
16:19Philly for the ride down to Dollar
16:22General?
16:24>> So you say you get hot, took the Xanax,
16:25you did the pill, you knotted out.
16:27>> Oh, I went home when I woke up. It was
16:30like I think it was like it was it was
16:34really late I think
16:37>> at night. You can't quote me on that.
16:39>> What about your memory?
16:40>> But I did go home, went to sleep, and I
16:42came back the next day.
16:44>> Tuesday, meaning yesterday.
16:46>> And it's daytime out now.
16:48>> Yes.
16:49>> Okay.
16:49>> I don't remember exactly what time I got
16:51there. And I think we got the call about
16:551:30 2:00.
16:56>> Okay. And you say we got the call. Whose
16:58weight?
16:59>> So I got the call and then that's when
17:02>> So you two were together?
17:03>> Yeah. He was standing he was standing
17:05pretty much within the vicinity of me.
17:07>> Okay.
17:08>> So, he was standing in the vicinity of
17:10you all and you all got the call that
17:13she was down there.
17:15>> Well, he got the
17:16>> He got the call that she was down there.
17:18Where were you all when you all got the
17:20call?
17:23>> Don't quote me on that. I don't know.
17:26>> What street were you on?
17:27>> I don't know.
17:28>> Were you in the city?
17:30>> We were in Brooklyn.
17:31>> Brooklyn. We were only like 2 minutes
17:33from it.
17:34>> Okay. Like
17:35>> I'm pretty sure
17:37>> broke up by the projects or like Audrey
17:406
17:41>> coming down Pontiac.
17:43>> Okay.
17:45>> Gotcha. So basically behind the dollar
17:48found dollar just in the neighborhood.
17:50>> Yeah.
17:52>> So when when truly got the call, what
17:54did he say? Give me
17:56>> gave me a ride down to the dollar store.
17:58>> Okay.
17:58>> I said all right. So, I started heading
18:01that way and I said, "Why?" He said,
18:03"I'm going to be able to get the phone
18:04back." So, I said,
18:05>> He said, "You what?"
18:06>> He said, "He's going to be able to get
18:07the phone back.
18:08>> Get the phone back."
18:09>> But I already knew what that meant.
18:11>> Mhm. Right.
18:11>> You know what I mean? Cuz he's going to
18:13question about that gun.
18:14>> Mhm.
18:15>> Imagine what is on it.
18:17>> Right.
18:18>> I don't know what it belongs to.
18:20>> He never told me that.
18:21>> I don't know what type of gun it is.
18:23It's just a big one. That's all I know.
18:25[clears throat]
18:25>> It was a big gun.
18:26>> It folds.
18:26>> It unfold. It folds. Okay. Unfolds.
18:29Okay.
18:30And
18:30>> okay,
18:31>> um,
18:32>> you've seen him unfolded before?
18:34>> Yes.
18:34>> Okay.
18:35>> Um, I don't know who it belongs to, but
18:39I'm pretty sure he he's put he put in a
18:41safe. I didn't touch it.
18:43>> I put something going on.
18:44>> Okay.
18:46>> Um,
18:48other than that, what else was I?
18:51>> So, when you get down there, what
18:52happens when you get down to the Family
18:54Dollar store?
18:55>> I drop him off. He goes down. I dropped
18:58him off on like Hanover Street.
18:59>> Mhm.
19:00>> And he goes down the alleyway and this
19:03is before I even noticed what was going
19:05on [clears throat] cuz I didn't even
19:06notice because why the do some stupid
19:09baby dad and the kid and all that dumb
19:11[ __ ]
19:12>> First of all
19:13>> Mhm.
19:13>> And then it's just [ __ ]
19:16>> Mhm.
19:17>> Really stupid.
19:18>> Mhm.
19:19>> I mean it's time. [snorts]
19:24>> All right. So,
19:26>> so he
19:28he pretty much called my phone and said,
19:30"Just park at the dollar store." So,
19:32that's I went in and parked at the
19:34dollar store.
19:35>> Okay.
19:36>> And then, oh, the next thing I know, my
19:39door opens and she said, "Well, he told
19:41me to drive back there." He said, "Come
19:43back here." I thought him and Tim were
19:45going to get in it
19:46>> cuz he said he was going to get my
19:47phone.
19:48>> Mhm. [clears throat]
19:48>> Next thing [snorts] I know, he's got an
19:51>> He has a knife.
19:52>> He's pretty much holding her down. Mhm.
19:54>> But he's had a life like this.
19:56>> You know what I mean?
19:57>> Mhm.
19:58>> So he didn't do anything to her in the
20:01truck at all.
20:02>> Okay.
20:03>> He said she said she told me who has it
20:07dropped me off here.
20:09I dropped him off in between
20:14handover
20:18>> to Tapsico.
20:19>> No, when you make a left.
20:22>> Where are we? or by the Family Dollar or
20:23by Royal Farms or what?
20:25>> You're passing that
20:27>> going out
20:27>> opposite way towards Bel. You're not
20:29>> going toward Belgrove.
20:30>> Going towards it, but you made a left
20:32way before it.
20:33>> Um
20:33>> you're going back up towards um
20:36>> Hanover
20:36>> the other side of where we came from.
20:40>> Okay.
20:42Streets let him out and he went with a
20:46red car. It was like a red
20:51I want to say looks like a Mustang, but
20:52it could be something different.
20:54>> I didn't get a good look at it. There
20:55was a girl guy in it.
20:56>> Mhm.
20:57>> And another black dude. And then they
21:00left. And then from there, I got nothing
21:03but [ __ ]
21:05They said I called the phone. I said,
21:07"Did you get my phone?"
21:09He said, "Go to sixth." I went to six.
21:12And of course, nobody's coming. I said,
21:15"All right, I'm moving." because my dad
21:17at that point was calling and saying,
21:18"Look, the insurance is dead. You're
21:20suspended and you park." That's when I
21:23went to fifth, I guess it is.
21:26Fifth or sixth, whatever the hell I
21:28parked the truck and it stayed
21:31and I walked from there to a friend of
21:33mine named Jeremy and Sandra. sat there
21:36for a few minutes and then I ended up
21:39leaving with somebody that wanted to cop
21:40up
21:42and then that's when later that night I
21:47ended up seeing him and I said, "Did you
21:49find my phone?" He said, "I didn't find
21:52anything." And I said, "What did you
21:55do?" And he said, "Sh." And he just woke
21:59up.
22:02>> He said, "She should have walked up."
22:03>> Yeah. He He's not going to tell me
22:05everything. I don't know who he did it
22:07to, where he did it,
22:10where everything went down at. All I
22:14know is weird occurrences that happened
22:15that I tried to put together
22:18because I was lied to the whole time. So
22:20I tried to put everything together
22:23later.
22:24>> Okay.
22:25>> And that was too late.
22:26>> Okay.
22:28So, so um
22:30so you leave out the Dollar General
22:32store. I mean, well, when you pull up in
22:34the back of the Dollar General store,
22:36let's start there so we can have a clear
22:38understanding.
22:40>> He called you on your cell phone.
22:43>> Yeah.
22:43>> What cell phone did you have?
22:46>> Cell it um
22:50>> Whose cell phone did you have?
22:52Cuz she took your cell phone, right?
22:56No, I had Tim's cell phone.
22:58>> Tim?
22:58>> Yeah.
22:59>> All right. Who's Tim?
23:00>> I can get that phone.
23:01>> Okay. What's Tim's cell phone number?
23:03>> I don't know by heart.
23:04>> Okay.
23:05>> It's a It's a state phone that he got.
23:07>> Where is it now?
23:08>> He's got it.
23:09>> Tim has it?
23:10>> Yeah.
23:10>> Okay. So,
23:11>> I I gave it back to him cuz it's his.
23:13>> All right. So, he calls you on the
23:14phone.
23:15>> You pick him up and you drive down there
23:18to the dollar.
23:19>> He was pretty much in the truck.
23:21>> Okay. He was in the truck.
23:22>> We were talking,
23:22>> right? And
23:24>> what was he talking to you about?
23:27>> It was something random.
23:29>> Like he was hitting random. He was
23:31hitting sales.
23:32>> Mhm.
23:32>> You know what I mean?
23:33>> Okay. Okay.
23:34>> So, it was something random and then he
23:36got the call from whoever.
23:38>> You know what? I'm sorry. I can't hardly
23:39hear you either.
23:40>> He's He got the call from whoever.
23:44And then that's when we got told it
23:46wasn't a
23:49quit. It wasn't a [clears throat]
23:52>> I'm sorry.
23:53Who Who's Tim? Like Mark said,
23:56>> Tim's little brother to me. I've known
23:57him for
23:59that's the this porch we were on.
24:02>> Okay.
24:02>> That's his mom's
24:05house.
24:05>> What What was Okay. What was your iPhone
24:08phone phone number?
24:09>> 410924274.
24:12>> 9244274.
24:15Okay. So, and that's taken
24:17>> that was taken that was taken back when
24:19we went to Walmart
24:20>> by that was taken
24:22>> that was taken back
24:22>> when you nodded out
24:24>> to Walmart
24:25>> by uh pretty or
24:27>> Yeah, that when I I was texting Audrey.
24:31>> Okay. And then how do you come when do
24:33you get Tim's phone?
24:36>> Then the I think the day I came into
24:38town, I went and I visited Mama and Tim
24:41and I didn't [snorts] have a phone.
24:42>> Who's Malabu?
24:43>> Mom is his mom. Okay. Okay. What's her
24:47name?
24:47>> Arlene.
24:48>> Ar. Okay.
24:49>> So, I asked to borrow the phone because
24:51being out there with no phone is not a
24:54good idea.
24:54>> Mhm.
24:55>> Because my
24:56>> Do you know his number?
24:58>> What that number was?
24:59>> Know by heart, but my dad might have.
25:01>> Okay.
25:02>> If he don't, he has his mama's and I
25:05know mama's by heart.
25:06>> Okay.
25:07>> She she's on the phone, too. She So, she
25:11he should have her number. That's where
25:13he met me. Yes.
25:14>> Where where is that phone
25:17>> from now?
25:18>> Where where is that? Where is that
25:19phone?
25:20>> Oh, where's the phone?
25:21>> He said it was him.
25:23>> You gave it back to him?
25:24>> Mhm.
25:24>> Okay.
25:26>> Yeah, I gave it back to him today when I
25:28went back to the house to come here cuz
25:31he was outside. He came by the house. He
25:33was I guess he was walking around
25:35looking to see if he seen me. And he's
25:37looking at me. He's like, "Your dad's
25:39right there." I said, "All right, I
25:42already know." His dad texted me earlier
25:44and said, "Baltimore said he knocked on
25:46the door or the police knocked the
25:49door." He's like, "We'll count." They
25:50like police knocked on the door. I said,
25:52"All right." About what? He said a
25:55girl's body was found. I don't remember
25:58which order. He said something about
26:02burned
26:07and something. You have to ask me
26:08exactly how you said it. But I said,
26:12"Who?"
26:13Because I already knew what this was
26:15going to be because of a sense of
26:19putting it all together.
26:22And he said, "I don't know."
26:26So when I went outside, I ran into Maria
26:28and them. That's when they were like,
26:30"Yeah, they found Freddy." I said,
26:32"Where?" They said somewhere by
26:35Jasmine's car, which is on if you go
26:39down fourth.
26:42She's on
26:44the very end, the black car with a
26:46butterfly in the back or something.
26:48>> What street is that?
26:50>> At least fourth or fifth,
26:53wherever she's probably the very end.
26:55>> Okay. So, so, so, so here's this. Let's
26:57let's be clear. So, you you go to the
26:59Family Dollar store. All right. Now,
27:03what I want you to do is paint a clear
27:05picture. You say that you drop him off
27:08on like handover street and then he
27:10calls you to come over there and you go
27:13in the back and what happens when you
27:14get in the back? You said he You said
27:17you saw him, right?
27:18>> I pull up open and he pushes her in.
27:22>> When you say the truck all of a sudden
27:23opens, who what does that mean?
27:25>> Philly opened the back. The back right
27:29the back right.
27:30>> Who opened it?
27:31>> Philly. How did he get in there? Cuz the
27:33doors are locked.
27:34>> When you drive on that truck, the door
27:35is automatically locked when you take
27:37off.
27:38>> No. [clears throat]
27:39>> Yeah, they do.
27:40>> Well, I don't know. I don't
27:41>> So, how did he Did you unlock it?
27:43>> I probably did.
27:44>> Okay. Or did you I mean, what did you
27:46Did you hit the button? Did you reach
27:47over open up the door and
27:49>> No, I I wouldn't reach over and I'm just
27:51asking unlock or I don't know.
27:54[clears throat]
27:55>> But I know that he got out. They might
27:58not have lock. They might not have.
28:00>> Okay. Well, when you drive, they were
28:01they lock.
28:03>> That's what I'm saying.
28:04>> Oh.
28:04>> So, you know what? You put it when when
28:05you were parked.
28:06>> Yeah.
28:06>> And Philly walked down and then called
28:08you down parked in the side parking lot.
28:11>> When you put it in truck and drive and
28:13drive, they they lock,
28:14>> right? And then I don't know if I went
28:17this way.
28:17>> How did How did that girl get in your
28:21truck? She was She was sitting in the
28:25middle and then
28:27>> How did she get inside your truck?
28:29>> How did she get in there?
28:30>> Mhm.
28:30>> Philly.
28:32>> How?
28:32>> Philly pretty much I guess she was
28:34intimidated by him and got in it. And
28:36then when I actually noticed what was
28:38going on when I turned around and seen a
28:39knife toward the
28:42>> Did he tell you to unlock the door? Did
28:44he ask you to unlock the door? Did you
28:47Did he ask you to roll the window down?
28:48>> Ask me to come get him.
28:51>> Right. And then when he went down there,
28:52did he say anything else to you when you
28:54went down there?
28:55>> No, he didn't say anything right then
28:57and there. He just he asked me to come
29:00get him. He said, "Come to the family
29:02and come get me." So I went all of a
29:06sudden she's pushed in. Like I said,
29:08everything went a little faster than
29:11>> Is she saying anything at this point?
29:14>> She's saying really philly really.
29:16>> I guess right there with baby there.
29:19Really philly really. Who else is
29:21outside the truck?
29:22>> I don't know who the other boy was. I've
29:24never seen him. I've seen him one other
29:26time, but I don't know who he is.
29:28>> What's he who we talk? Is there more? Is
29:30there Is there a couple people outside?
29:31>> There's like two or three.
29:33>> But who?
29:34>> Uh
29:36I didn't get a good look. This is This
29:38is me just pulling around and it
29:40happening quick. I know her baby dad was
29:43most likely there. That's what I was
29:45told.
29:46>> Do you remember seeing him?
29:47>> I didn't I didn't physically see him.
29:49No.
29:50>> Okay.
29:50>> Cuz it just happened so fast. You know I
29:53mean it was him, his daughter from what
29:56I'm told.
29:58>> Her.
29:59>> Who would tell you this?
30:02>> Phil told me what?
30:03>> Who told you that the victim's husband
30:07and child were there?
30:08>> It was Philly that told me that.
30:10>> Phil told you.
30:11>> He got a call from someone that told him
30:13that. I don't know who he would have to
30:15check his phone. So, so when you pulled
30:18up on the parking lot, you saw him with
30:21the um with the knife to her throat or
30:24or around that. Okay. So, he was outside
30:27on on on the sidewalk on the parking lot
30:29with a knife to her throat. How did
30:31>> he wasn't Well, I don't know if it was
30:33too much for then,
30:35>> right?
30:36>> But I know when he went to go get in the
30:39truck with her.
30:40>> Mhm. She had gotten in and as he got in,
30:44he said, "Sit the down."
30:46>> And I kind of That's when I looked back.
30:48And when I looked back is when I noticed
30:51>> that his blade was out.
30:53>> And then he pushed her down
30:54>> and took the knife to her.
30:56>> Mhm. In in the truck.
30:57>> Yeah.
30:58>> They didn't do anything in the truck at
30:59all.
31:00>> And then that's when he said, "Where's
31:03all this you stole?"
31:04>> Okay.
31:05>> She said, "The name's Tyler. I don't
31:06know who it is."
31:07>> Mhm.
31:08So he asked me to stop and they got out.
31:12They got out right there when I made the
31:14left
31:15>> from handover
31:17going towards where we came from but we
31:20[clears throat] didn't make it across
31:22the other way.
31:23>> So when you leave out of the park you go
31:24out handover.
31:26>> I dropped him off and then I started to
31:28go down towards Brove and I kept calling
31:31his phone.
31:33A lot of times he wasn't answering and
31:34different people were picking it up.
31:37So when you when when you leave out of
31:39the um when you leave out of the um from
31:42the Dollar General
31:45>> Stop right there for one second. When
31:46you leave out of the Dollar General,
31:48who's in the truck with you? Just just
31:50just Philly and and her who and who
31:53else?
31:53>> It was just
31:54>> Okay. Now, where did Philly go? Did he
31:56sit in the back or the front?
31:57>> The back.
31:58>> He sat in the back. And he uh and you
32:01looked back and you saw the knife on his
32:03row.
32:03>> Yes. When you pulled out of the um
32:06Family Dollar store, which way did you
32:08go? Did you make a right? You made a
32:10right.
32:11>> No, I made a left.
32:12>> You can't can't make
32:13>> You can go over.
32:14>> No, there's a medium in the middle
32:17street.
32:17>> No, no. When you go from Family Dollar,
32:19you cross over to that little alley.
32:21>> Well, I'll put it to you this way before
32:23you go any further.
32:24>> Hold on. Let me Let me finish for a sec.
32:26So So you crossed over and did what?
32:28>> I went to the I went out the Family
32:31Dollar towards like the auto shop.
32:33>> Mhm. And out in the alley I made the
32:35right
32:36>> and then I made a left to that street.
32:39>> So So
32:41>> yeah, [snorts] that one I guess
32:42>> headed out toward Brooklyn and Rich
32:44Highway
32:45>> that left where the McDonald's would be
32:46on the right.
32:47>> Mhm.
32:48>> That street towards Belove. But it
32:50didn't make it to Belove. We made a left
32:51and they got out to a red car and then I
32:55went to Belgrove. I took a left towards
32:59Orchard
33:00and I went down church and I kept
33:02calling the phone and [snorts] I kept
33:04hearing different voices. Okay.
33:06>> So I said yo what are you doing? Where
33:10are you at?
33:11>> Blah blah blah. And he said go to sixth
33:15and Audrey because I guess that's where
33:17she was telling him that this missing.
33:20>> Mhm.
33:20>> I go there nobody shows up.
33:22>> Mhm. So, I got a call again
33:25and I'm being told to just move where
33:30Jeremy and Sandra live.
33:31>> Is this all the time in my Philly?
33:33>> I didn't move. No, it's not all the
33:34time, but I drove,
33:37but I went down Brooklyn Avenue and I
33:40didn't really trust being on Brooklyn
33:42Avenue. Something told me to just make a
33:44right.
33:44>> Mhm.
33:45>> So, I did.
33:45>> Mhm.
33:47>> And what did you do when you made the
33:48truck?
33:49>> I parked [clears throat] the truck and
33:50left it.
33:51>> Okay. So when he when
33:55what else do you know um pretty by
33:59Tiffany, right?
33:59>> Yes.
34:00>> Okay. When he got out the car with her,
34:03what was did he have the knife to her
34:05then?
34:08>> I want to say yeah.
34:10>> Okay.
34:10>> Because I don't think he would have had
34:12time to
34:13>> Okay.
34:14>> Flip it back.
34:14>> What [clears throat] does she have on?
34:17>> I don't know.
34:20I have no clue what she had on it. It
34:22was too [clears throat]
34:23It was too fast and like it's happening
34:27too fast. I'm trying to like
34:30at this point get the away from it.
34:34>> Okay. Well, and I'm so
34:36>> I don't know exactly what she was
34:38wearing at all.
34:39>> Okay. So, let me tell you what I Let me
34:41tell you what I do know.
34:43Um, what I do know is that the family
34:48the family dollar so they have
34:50tremendous surveillance cameras there.
34:54>> Okay. They have tremendous uh
34:56surveillance cameras there. And from me
35:00reviewing those cameras, it contradicts
35:03some of the things that you said. So the
35:06camera will show that
35:09you speed around after she was forced
35:12into your car,
35:14>> right? You speed around there. You you
35:16you you put her in the car.
35:19>> Um you make a right onto Poti and then
35:22you make a right onto Patabico to go
35:25down towards when I say Patabico to go
35:27down towards like the [clears throat]
35:29district court in that direction.
35:32You go up that way. That's what the
35:34video shows.
35:36>> You made a right on Patapsico headed
35:38toward Curtis Bay.
35:39>> Okay. Okay.
35:45And you know what?
35:47>> I dropped him off where he did it.
35:50>> Mhm.
35:51>> Right by it.
35:53>> Where?
35:54>> Right there on um I don't know that
35:56street.
35:57>> Come on. It's a It's a All I know is the
36:01the I think it's one of the last
36:03streets. I don't know. I don't know.
36:05>> Give me a landmark. Tell me something
36:07that's near.
36:10>> Jasmine's [clears throat] car.
36:12>> No. Any buildings? Any buildings or
36:14anything?
36:15>> There's houses. Uh
36:19pavement was being
36:20>> What's unique about the block?
36:22>> Pavement was being done to it. I
36:24couldn't I had to weave around a cone
36:29to leave it.
36:30>> All right. Now, when you made a right on
36:32the Tabsico Avenue
36:34>> Yeah.
36:37Here's the Family Dollar. Here's the
36:39Royal Farms. Right. You came out. You
36:42made a right on Poti.
36:44You're driving up. You're driving away
36:47from Brooklyn, away from Belovero,
36:49right? Coming back toward the city. You
36:51make a right on Bapsico Avenue. Now
36:53you're headed Now you're driving this
36:55way. You're on Pasco Avenue. The
36:57courthouse is down that way. Brooklyn
37:00Avenue is down that way. The projects
37:02are down that way.
37:04>> I never went down that way.
37:05>> Curtis Bay is down that way. I'm talking
37:07about the general direction.
37:08>> Where I went where I went after I left
37:10him. Like I said, I dropped
37:12>> Hold on. When you when you're driving
37:14down Papsico, when you drop him off, did
37:18you make a left or did you make a right
37:21off of Pabsico Avenue?
37:24>> A left.
37:25>> Okay.
37:27How far
37:29do you know where that big Do you know
37:30where that funeral home is on Tapsco
37:32Avenue? The big white building with the
37:33funeral home right right on up the
37:35street from Royal Farms.
37:39>> You talking about where the school is?
37:41[clears throat] where the library is.
37:43>> Yes. Then I know where the funeral is.
37:45>> Okay. Did you go past that?
37:46>> I think so.
37:48>> Yeah. There's a red light and there's a
37:50bank and there's a sub shop.
37:53>> Okay.
37:54>> Did you go past that?
37:55>> I don't think I went past the sub shop.
37:57>> Okay.
37:57>> I don't remember seeing the sub shop.
37:59>> Sub shop's just I mean doesn't stand
38:00out.
38:01>> You're talking about 7-Eleven, right?
38:02>> No, no, no. Opposite side of 7-Eleven.
38:04Okay. Did you make it to 7-Eleven?
38:06>> No.
38:06>> Okay. You turn left before the 7-Eleven
38:09at some point. Yes.
38:11>> Okay. After you turned left off,
38:14>> there was a black gate.
38:16>> A black gate.
38:17>> There's a black gate
38:19>> like a rod iron gate.
38:20>> Left. I remember a black gate.
38:21>> So that's by the courthouse
38:23>> along it on the right.
38:25>> When you drive down that road that
38:27you're talking about with a black gate.
38:29Are there houses on both sides of the
38:31street or just one side of the street?
38:32>> Just on the left.
38:34>> Okay. Seventh Street.
38:36>> Yeah, that one.
38:37>> Seventh. So [snorts] you're going down
38:38Seth. There's houses here and the
38:40courthouse is over here. So, black rod
38:43iron gate. Okay. On the right. Yeah.
38:45>> Yeah.
38:46>> When you went down 7th Street, then
38:48where did you go?
38:50>> The I I didn't make it all the way to
38:52Seventh.
38:53>> Well, when you turned Seventh Street,
38:55>> I turned on Seventh to try to leave
38:57Seventh.
38:58>> I dropped [snorts] them off right there.
39:00>> Right at 7.
39:02>> It was No, Seventh and whatever that is.
39:05>> Okay. So after you turn off the
39:07metapico, now you're going down Seventh.
39:10This is the courthouse. These are the
39:12houses. You're driving down Seventh,
39:14right? Do you make it to the next street
39:16that comes out? That's Arson Avenue.
39:19>> Absolutely. I don't get to the very tip
39:21of it.
39:22>> Okay.
39:22>> To the very very tip of it.
39:24>> That's Arson Avenue.
39:25>> Yeah.
39:26>> And then the last street is Chesapeake
39:29where it dead ends into the railroad
39:30tracks.
39:34Huh.
39:36He got out and what? Finish your
39:38thought.
39:38>> He got out and walked down the sidewalk.
39:41He was walking down seven. Eyes took off
39:43down.
39:43>> Who was walking with him?
39:45>> Him. Pretty and some other black dude
39:48came out the alley. I don't know who he
39:50is. I can just tell you what he looks
39:52like. That's all I I don't know who he
39:53is. I've never seen him before.
39:55>> Was Pretty fighting?
39:57>> No.
39:57>> Resisting?
39:58>> No.
39:59>> Crying?
40:00>> No.
40:00>> Struggling?
40:01>> No.
40:01>> Talking?
40:02>> I think she was intimidated.
40:04>> Okay. I guess she
40:05>> was she saying oh my god or what are you
40:07Philly or
40:09>> help at first
40:10>> she said that when she was getting in
40:12the truck like really Philly really like
40:14she was trying to make it known to I
40:16guess whoever was around her
40:18>> I don't know she had
40:22gotten in the truck
40:25and said that
40:26>> so this is when the knife's
40:29>> no the knife I don't I don't know if the
40:31knife was on really then I just know the
40:34knife This one when I turned around.
40:36>> Do you remember what the knife looked
40:37like? Big, small, little.
40:39>> It's a one of the big
40:41>> switchblade that opens or you got to
40:43open.
40:44>> Okay.
40:46I got some other stuff I'm going to
40:47share with you, too. Right. So, this is
40:50what the conversation I want you to
40:52have. It's good that you describe all of
40:54that. That's important, too. This is the
40:56conversation I want I want you to have
40:58because this is the way it works in the
41:00real world, the world you live in out on
41:02the street. When Philly called you to go
41:06pick up Tiffany's cuz y'all going to get
41:09y'all stuff back. He going to get his
41:11gun back. He also took it a step
41:14further. And he told you what he was
41:16going to do to if he didn't get his
41:17stuff back.
41:18>> I swear to God he did not tell me.
41:19>> So what did he say?
41:20>> He what he told me was is that he was
41:23going to go to Tyler's and get this.
41:25>> Uhhuh.
41:26>> That's it.
41:27>> I just want everything he will.
41:29>> Okay.
41:29>> I'll take a photograph of that. So, so
41:31let me tell you the
41:32>> he never told me. I never knew what was
41:34going on when it was going on.
41:35>> Mhm.
41:36>> I don't know where he went,
41:38>> okay?
41:39>> Because all I know is is some brown ass
41:42black dude had stopped me and asked to
41:43date and it was weird because he had
41:46asked me where Philly was.
41:47>> So, as I left
41:50>> later on that night, I went to Clint and
41:52Philly had come to Clint and I asked him
41:54if he knew that phone number. I said,
41:55"If you've ever not if you've ever lied
41:57to me, tell me the truth now. Do you
41:59know this number?" It was a 714 number.
42:02>> And [clears throat]
42:03he said, "Yes."
42:07>> I said, "Okay." So, I started piecing
42:10together
42:12that that might be the other black dude,
42:13but it wasn't the guy that I seen.
42:17>> You know what I mean?
42:18>> Okay. But the fact of the matter is, I'm
42:22going back up again to the Family Dollar
42:24store.
42:25>> Okay.
42:25>> Okay. So, what I also do know is that
42:29when this initially happened,
42:32you and Tiffany had a verbal exchange,
42:35she said to you, you know, I didn't
42:37steal anything. I know she said that to
42:39you.
42:41>> Me?
42:42>> When when when Philly grabbed her and
42:44was going to put her in the car, she had
42:46a ver she said something to you because
42:50they all recognized that's Bobby and she
42:52shouted something to you.
42:54>> I was It was me.
42:55>> Yeah. Yes. But I'm just saying
42:57>> nobody
42:58didn't say anything to me when
43:00>> Did you say something to her?
43:02>> Nobody said this. This is the first
43:04thing when Oh, okay. Now I know what
43:05you're talking about. When he was going
43:07to shove her in,
43:09>> she said something about
43:11>> I didn't steal anything. I said, "Don't
43:13lie to me."
43:14>> I said, "Did you I said, "Be honest with
43:16me. Did you take my money and my drugs?"
43:20>> And Philly's gone.
43:22>> Mhm.
43:22>> And that's when she said, "No, I
43:24didn't." But she admitted that T as we
43:27were going, she said Tyler did.
43:29>> Right. But I'm saying so you did ask her
43:31to admit the fact of what she did.
43:33>> Yes, I did.
43:33>> Right. So that's what I'm saying. You
43:34all talk.
43:35>> Okay. I gas for a second.
43:38>> Okay. So So when she got in the car,
43:40walk me through that again. Philly is
43:42forcing her in the car.
43:43>> Yeah.
43:44>> And then you say what? Cuz you had to
43:47look back because I mean he put in when
43:49he grabbed the door. I looked back,
43:50>> right? And then and then what did what
43:52>> I seen him? Well, it was her and then he
43:56was like holding on to her trying to
43:57push her in.
43:58>> Right. And [snorts] what did you who
44:00started the conversation? You or her?
44:02You just said
44:03>> I'm not positive.
44:04>> All right. So, what So, give me the
44:05exchange again. What did you all say to
44:07each other? You said you asked what?
44:10>> It was her saying
44:12really
44:14>> and then got pushed in and then
44:16something about
44:18>> I don't know how it came up
44:20>> to be honest exactly. All I know is is
44:24she said something to me and that's when
44:26I screamed back.
44:27>> Okay. And what did you scream?
44:28>> Something and she's supposed to be a
44:30friend of mine and I said, "You're
44:33supposed to be cool with me."
44:34>> Mhm.
44:35>> Why would you steal from me and leave me
44:36for dead?
44:37>> Mhm.
44:37>> Because everybody thought I was dead.
44:39>> Mhm.
44:40>> And she said she didn't. And then she
44:42said as we were as we pulled out, she
44:45said that Tyler is the one. She said she
44:48stole the drugs, the money, and Tyler
44:50raided the truck,
44:52>> right?
44:53>> And [snorts] I'm not sure who Tyler is,
44:55but he's from Audrey, apparently.
44:56>> Did she say she stole the gun, too?
45:00>> Not to me.
45:02>> And the phone.
45:03>> She admitted to the phone and the money,
45:05but she never admitted the gun to me.
45:07>> Okay.
45:08>> Or around me.
45:08>> So now, let me tell you the other
45:10problem we have. And And
45:12>> I promise you, she never admitted to
45:13this.
45:14>> Okay, that's fine. That's fine. So the
45:15other problem is so we um we see the
45:20truck going down the tapsico.
45:23This camera is going all Listen, this
45:25camera's going all down the tabs, right?
45:29>> All the way to 7th Street.
45:31>> Yeah.
45:33>> This camera's along the side of the
45:35courthouse.
45:37>> Okay.
45:38>> Okay. They can see all the way over
45:40there.
45:42Where's your um
45:46where's where's the truck now?
45:51>> You would have to look at it. I don't
45:52know.
45:53>> That way you can trace the onar.
45:55>> Is the orange star on?
45:57>> I don't know.
45:58>> You all have one star on?
46:00>> He according to my dad he does.
46:02>> He does have one star.
46:03>> According to him.
46:05>> So do you know where where did you park
46:07the truck? Where is it now? It was on I
46:10left it where I told him and left it for
46:13the day the day that day after I left
46:18after I dropped him off on like right
46:20there by the tip of Seventh and
46:23>> whatever that one street is that's being
46:26paved.
46:26>> Mhm.
46:27>> I went down that way, came back around,
46:29but I went to
46:33I went No, I went back down by Dallas
46:36general. That's when I seen police
46:39>> had the family out
46:41called him. I said, "The police are down
46:44here." I said, "What the did you do? Did
46:48you take her while that's one?" Cuz I
46:50had found out at that point that her
46:52baby dad and the kid were there. I said,
46:54"Did you take her with the baby dad and
46:57the kid there?"
46:58>> You said this to who?
46:59>> Billy.
47:01>> Okay. Uh-huh. Right.
47:02>> Cuz I didn't realize who all was there.
47:06Mhm.
47:07>> You know what I mean? It was kind of the
47:08groove. [snorts]
47:09>> And you say this to him later on that
47:11evening.
47:12>> I say it
47:15at some point in between Bel Groove.
47:17>> Right. When you were driving down
47:19church,
47:19>> right? Okay.
47:20>> Cuz I parked on near Audrey cuz that's
47:22where I was whoever answered the phone
47:24at that point.
47:25>> It was a different voice
47:27>> had told me to go to Audrey because they
47:29were going to go to Tyler's and get
47:32everything from Tyler's.
47:33>> Mhm. So, I parked not on Audrey. I
47:38really don't know if I was near Audrey,
47:40but it looked like Audrey
47:42>> cuz a black one came up and asked me for
47:44a cigarette
47:45>> and if she could buy one and she didn't
47:47have the money for it. So, I said, "Just
47:48go ahead. I've been there." And then
47:50some dude with a blue umbrella was
47:52walking up and down and I called and I
47:56said, "Look, I'm I'm just going to park
47:58the truck because and like I said, my
48:00dad was calling about the insurance and
48:02all that." till I rolled out and
48:06um parked it down. I went down Brooklyn
48:09Avenue, but I took a right.
48:11>> Mhm.
48:12>> And left it.
48:14>> Okay. So,
48:15>> I don't I don't know if that's
48:16considered fifth, sixth, I'm not sure
48:19which one.
48:19>> That's fine. So, when you saw Philly and
48:21you said, "What'd you do? You took her
48:23in front of um her her husband and her
48:25daughter." What did he say? He really he
48:29kept talking weirdly
48:32>> too.
48:32>> He just kept saying weird things that
48:34you have to link together later.
48:36>> You know,
48:37>> you say those weird things
48:38>> and he mumbles. Okay.
48:40>> He's got to mumble.
48:42>> I get that.
48:42>> Understand it.
48:43>> I get that. Give me the weird things
48:45that he said.
48:47>> I I don't know.
48:48>> Okay.
48:48>> You would have to pull the conversation
48:50up.
48:51>> Okay.
48:52>> You know what I mean?
48:53>> Would this have been Let me ask you
48:55this. But this had been
48:57this was been this would have been while
48:59you all were traveling with her in the
49:00car
49:02or after
49:04>> No, the the conversation [clears throat]
49:05we had now
49:08>> that was over my house.
49:09>> Yeah,
49:09>> that was after
49:10>> after.
49:11>> This is after I dropped him off and
49:12left.
49:13>> Okay. [clears throat]
49:14>> So So and you asked you you you said you
49:17you said earlier that you asked him what
49:19did he do to her and what did he say?
49:22He She wasn't. You could hear her.
49:26She was telling him. She She was pretty
49:29much yelling at him.
49:32>> Who?
49:34>> Pretty.
49:34>> Pretty was yelling at
49:35>> That's the only girl that was with him
49:36at the point.
49:37>> Okay. Was yelling at him?
49:39>> Mhm.
49:39>> Were you there when when she was yelling
49:41at him?
49:41>> No, I wasn't there when she was yelling
49:43at him, but I was there
49:45in the truck.
49:48She yelled. But when I was going down
49:50Belgrave, I called him telling the
49:52police from across the street and then
49:56I I told him I know who told me that I
50:00don't know who told me that Tim or
50:03whatever baby dad's real name is called
50:06the bullies.
50:08So tell him like why the he
50:11thought he's supposed to get him cuz he
50:13has a thing on Facebook or it's his
50:16message thing. wanted to it has a
50:19message from some I don't know the name
50:22but they have because it's a long
50:24message so obviously was the message
50:26part [snorts] that said Tim had sold my
50:28iPhone for 500
50:30and that they were they wouldn't meet up
50:33with him and he said I'll show you my
50:36fixer ID blah blah blah I guess because
50:39he really wouldn't get the gun back.
50:41[clears throat and snorts]
50:42>> So so so now we kind of like mumbling.
50:44So let me just be more direct. So, we
50:47did find the truck. We got Well, no, we
50:51got it. We got it. We have the We have
50:53the truck here.
50:55>> All right. So, there are a lot of things
50:57that we know that I'm not immediately
51:00sharing with you because I'm using that
51:03to gauge how truthful you're being with
51:05me. And um
51:07>> what?
51:09Let me finish. I'm gauging how truthful
51:11you are with me. Right. So, there's a
51:13lot of things in the truck.
51:17Right. [snorts]
51:18>> I swear to God that he did not do
51:20anything as long as I had the truck. I
51:24can pass a calligraph to that.
51:26>> I'm Listen, I promise you.
51:27>> Listen, I'm not saying I'm not I'm not
51:29here to suggest or try to tell you that
51:32he did something.
51:33>> The only thing that was out of there was
51:35one thing out of it, there was a bright
51:37pair of shoes. Cuz I asked him who they
51:39were. I said, "Shilly, whose bright
51:41pairs of shoes are they?" He said jazz,
51:44which is Jasmine. He told me that Prey
51:48was dead by her car, but that was on
51:51sixth or no fifth.
51:54>> Why would Why would Jasmine Why would
51:56her shoes be in the truck?
51:58>> I guess Bri stole them from her at one
51:59point in time.
52:02She said a bunch of shoes were us.
52:05>> Okay. So, I'm guessing this guy had he's
52:08pretty has stolen a lot from a lot of
52:11people in Baltimore. So, that's why I
52:14said it first when they picked me up
52:16that a lot of people can say we're after
52:19because
52:2120 different people in one meeting would
52:24say her name and that she did this and
52:26did that and did this, did that, did
52:28this that this and that. And
52:33you mean you got the whole city after
52:34you for stealing this type of thing.
52:36>> Okay. So So you asked
52:41Philly who tennis shoes they wear in the
52:43back.
52:43>> He said Jasmine's
52:46>> He said Jasmine's.
52:47>> Yes.
52:49>> And who was Jasmine? The girl
52:51>> short blondhaired um girl in Brooklyn.
52:54>> When did you ask him that?
52:57>> I I didn't I noticed it. It didn't
53:00really click at first,
53:03but I asked him it I think yesterday.
53:07>> Okay.
53:10>> It might last night or today.
53:12>> Last night or today?
53:13>> Last night or today?
53:14>> All right. So, you saw him today, too.
53:15Did you talked to him today?
53:17>> Yeah, I seen him this morning. I told
53:18them when they first picked me up,
53:20>> right? What did he say to you this
53:21morning?
53:22>> He was leaving.
53:23>> Huh?
53:23>> He didn't tell me who he was leaving
53:25with or where he was going. He's not
53:26going to tell me that.
53:27>> He said what? They've been leaving.
53:29>> And did he And did you ask him for what?
53:32>> No, I wasn't going to pursue that.
53:34>> Because you knew by that time, right?
53:36>> I wasn't going to pursue that because
53:37he's not going to tell me for one and
53:39for two. Why do I want to piss him off?
53:41>> But you already asked him before. What
53:43did you do to um Tiffany?
53:46>> I asked him that she was I know she was
53:49alive then.
53:50>> Mhm.
53:52>> She was alive then. I have no idea where
53:54they disappeared to.
53:56>> Mhm. Because
53:58>> But you asked him later. What did he do
54:00with Tiffany? What did he do to Tiffany?
54:03>> You said that earlier.
54:04>> I said Yeah. I said, "What did you do?
54:06Take her with 10 there."
54:09>> And what did he do?
54:10>> He said he pretty much he didn't confirm
54:12it. He just kind of avoided it.
54:15>> But what did you ask specifically?
54:18>> Did you take her in front of him?
54:21>> But you you told us earlier that you So,
54:24not talking about what you said to him
54:25on the phone. You told us earlier when
54:28you approached him and you said, "What
54:31did you do to her?"
54:32>> You're talking about plants. He didn't
54:33answer me.
54:34>> What did he do?
54:35>> He just looked at me.
54:36>> And what did he say?
54:37>> Nothing.
54:39>> Well, before that's not what you said.
54:41>> He looked slamming at me with this look
54:43like I had to link everything together.
54:46There was a I had to
54:48>> see the problem 714 number.
54:51>> You're not remembering what you told us
54:5315 minutes ago. But what I'm saying is I
54:56had to confirm a 714 number.
54:58>> I had to link pieces together because he
55:00was not telling me the truth.
55:03>> I link everything together.
55:04>> So what did you link together? Tell me
55:06what you link together. I pretty much
55:07linked together that a dude that lives,
55:13not the same street, not the next one,
55:15but I think the next one
55:18knew Philly somehow cuz he asked me if
55:21Philly was up away.
55:24And I said, "I don't know." And he said,
55:27"All right." But he had a phone in his
55:29hand that looked like Phillies and his,
55:31I guess.
55:33So when I called it, it didn't sound
55:35like Philly. So that's how I'm linking
55:37the voices with the phone.
55:40It's changing every once in a while. So
55:42the phone's not staying with one person.
55:44So obviously, he's trying to do
55:46something with the the phone.
55:48>> Mhm.
55:49>> At this point, I didn't really get that.
55:52The dude started hitting on me and then
55:53asked if I wanted a girl. I said, "I
55:55don't do girl." He said, "Well, what do
55:57you do, boy?" I said, "I don't really go
56:00through people. I don't really know." He
56:02said, "All right, I don't have blah blah
56:05blah." And then he hit some sale that
56:07came in and left. And then
56:11he hit some sale that came in.
56:13>> Yeah. Where were you to come in
56:15somewhere? Where were you? What store?
56:17What?
56:17>> I was I was walking down um
56:21what is that street
56:25from? Clint to the street that's right
56:28next to it where? What's What's the name
56:30of the store that he hit somebody in?
56:32>> He didn't hit the He didn't hit somebody
56:34in the store.
56:35>> What house were you in?
56:36>> I was in the house.
56:37>> You said I walked I was walking down the
56:40street.
56:41>> Well, then but you just told us a sale
56:42came in.
56:43>> He went the sale went to his house where
56:46he was staying on the front porch of He
56:48told him to go through the back.
56:50>> Right. Where? Where?
56:54>> By by an alleyway
56:57with a fence and a bunch of bushes.
56:59>> Okay. Bobby, for 5 years,
57:02>> and I think his name is T.
57:04>> For 5 years, you've been running around
57:05Brooklyn getting high.
57:07>> It's more like
57:08>> Okay. Four.
57:09>> Okay. Four.
57:11>> You know where to go. You know who to
57:13talk to. You know where not to go. You
57:15know where police are. You know people's
57:18names. And you know street names. So
57:20stop telling us not the first street,
57:22not the second street, not the third
57:24street. Cuz you know you know where
57:26you're going
57:26>> street like that. I promise you I don't
57:28I do not I get screwed up all the time.
57:30Just like I don't think I was on I don't
57:33think I was near Audrey.
57:35>> So let me tell you what we know.
57:35>> I was on Audrey. I thought I said
57:37orchard when I screwed up.
57:39>> Let me let me tell you what we know. Let
57:40me tell you what we know. Let me tell
57:41you what we know. So the reason
57:44to bring you in here is to find out the
57:46truth. So, let me tell you some truths
57:48that we do know because you a drug
57:51abuser. So, sometimes, you know, I I I
57:53don't know how you you probably was
57:56angry at Tiffany, of course, for
57:58stealing your phone cuz I would be too.
57:59You even expressed that that you said
58:01something emotional to her in the car
58:03when they put in and you said yourself,
58:05you said, and correct me when I go
58:07wrong, you even stated that you said to
58:09her, um, did you steal the money and and
58:12my phone? And you got her to acknowledge
58:15that she did that, right? So, and you
58:17screamed and cuz other people heard you.
58:19So, you were angry as well. And you
58:22questioned her friendship because of the
58:24simple fact to tell me to stop him when
58:26I'm wrong.
58:26>> I question your friendship.
58:28>> You question her friendship because she
58:30left you, as you said, for dead. Right.
58:34So then Philly, the reason why he would
58:36do that in front of you is because he
58:39knew that both of you all were angry
58:41enough at her, right? To try to get
58:45stuff back that she took from you all.
58:47>> Probably.
58:48>> Not Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.
58:50Nope. Nope. Nope. Not probably. You do
58:52the math.
58:54>> Pretty much the reason,
58:55>> right? So So So it's not probably,
58:57right? So you're saying probably, you
58:59you're minimizing and not accepting.
59:01>> I wasn't. No, I wasn't really thinking
59:03of it like that.
59:04>> Yeah. Well, that's the way that Well, I
59:05mean, that's what it is, right?
59:06>> Now that I'm thinking of it. Yes.
59:08>> Yeah. That's that's that's the way it
59:09is.
59:10>> Yes.
59:10>> So, so what we do is this.
59:15>> Again, we we we can measure how truthful
59:18somebody is being by a couple of re a
59:22couple of ways. By one, talking to other
59:24people.
59:25So most of the time when we bring people
59:28in here, we already know what answers
59:30they should be capable of producing,
59:33right? And when they don't, that's how
59:35we know that they're not being
59:36completely honest with us, right? They
59:39give us abbreviated versions of the
59:41truth. They they tell us the parts of
59:43the story that's convenient that's not
59:46really going to um [clears throat] um um
59:49implicate them to the same extent. You
59:52know what implicate me? You're looking
59:54confused. I know you're a smart girl,
59:55but you were supposed to go to Hopkins.
59:57>> All right. So, um, and to [snorts]
59:59implicate them, right? So, let me tell
1:00:01you what we did. Let me tell you what we
1:00:03did to verify certain things. One, the
1:00:05tennis shoes that was in the back of the
1:00:07car,
1:00:08>> we know they they belong to Tiffany.
1:00:11>> Well, he told me Jazz,
1:00:12>> we know that they belong to Tiffany,
1:00:15right?
1:00:15>> I noticed the tennis shoes, but he said
1:00:18they belong Jazz did say she had a she
1:00:21had shoes coming missing. So,
1:00:24stop. They're Tiffany shoes.
1:00:25>> But I promise you, Jez said that. He
1:00:28said, "Jazz,
1:00:30those are the girl that was forced into
1:00:32the back of your truck and then when you
1:00:35drove away, those are her shoes."
1:00:37>> It makes sense, but I didn't notice
1:00:38that. So,
1:00:40>> just tell you those are her shoes. Okay.
1:00:43Next.
1:00:44>> I didn't see her exactly what she wears
1:00:47and her tennis shoes.
1:00:48>> Do you have a Y CSI?
1:00:49>> You went too quickly for that.
1:00:50>> Those are her shoes.
1:00:52that later.
1:00:54>> Yeah. Watch. Yes. How you how they do
1:00:55all that science stuff and you and you
1:00:58you smart enough know some of that stuff
1:01:00is actually true today. Certain stuff we
1:01:02can do, right?
1:01:03>> Yes.
1:01:03>> So, let me tell you what else we were
1:01:05able to do. So, you understand and you
1:01:07already heard how Tiffany body was
1:01:09found, right?
1:01:10>> Yes.
1:01:10>> How did you hear her body was found?
1:01:12>> Dad told me.
1:01:13>> Huh?
1:01:14>> Dad's home.
1:01:16>> Where was her body found? Where did you
1:01:17hear that her body was found? in the
1:01:19bando on
1:01:25Baltic.
1:01:26>> Huh?
1:01:27>> Baltic.
1:01:27>> Speak. Speak.
1:01:28>> I think it's Baltic.
1:01:29>> Okay.
1:01:30>> It's the last street before
1:01:32>> the the street that goes down by
1:01:35>> Yeah. You all just talked about that
1:01:36street. The street that you drove on
1:01:38with the rod iron fence.
1:01:40>> Yeah. Seventh Seventh Street.
1:01:44the street that you turned on next to
1:01:46the courthouse that you just told us
1:01:48about. Yeah.
1:01:49>> When you left [clears throat] a dollar
1:01:51with her on your truck.
1:01:52>> Yeah. They
1:01:54>> Yeah. That's the street you drove down.
1:01:56Correct.
1:01:57>> Yes.
1:01:58>> Yeah. Well, that's where she is. That's
1:01:59where the abandoned house is.
1:02:00>> What I'm saying is
1:02:03where I was.
1:02:04>> Seventh and Arson
1:02:06>> was that I was trying to get the street
1:02:08name.
1:02:09>> Seventh and Arson. I told you
1:02:12>> the house I seen it from the back.
1:02:16>> So you went down the hallway,
1:02:17>> right?
1:02:17>> Yes.
1:02:18>> So you saw you saw in the back of the
1:02:19house they walked in that they w to her
1:02:22>> defense part
1:02:23>> that they took her in.
1:02:25>> I I'm I'm guessing. It's all I can put
1:02:28together.
1:02:29>> How can No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
1:02:31I don't need you guessing. What did your
1:02:33eyes visually see when you drove down
1:02:35the back alley?
1:02:40the the fence.
1:02:41>> Okay. And but what did you see them do
1:02:43with her when you drove down the back
1:02:44island?
1:02:46>> They didn't do anything with her. They
1:02:47were walking at
1:02:48>> right. They And where did they walk at
1:02:49too?
1:02:50>> They were still walking up.
1:02:53>> Listen to this. So
1:02:54>> I mean I I kind of get exactly where it
1:02:57is though because after I was told where
1:03:02where it was
1:03:04and all that, I know exactly what
1:03:07happened.
1:03:07>> You're right. So what happened? That's
1:03:09what he had to have killed prey there or
1:03:12at least somewhere in that vicinity.
1:03:15>> Mhm.
1:03:16>> Um not not had to have. I mean the fact
1:03:19of the matter is this.
1:03:20>> He had to.
1:03:21>> So listen to this. So this is the crazy
1:03:23part that always amazed me, man. You you
1:03:25you see about people digging in dirt and
1:03:28this that and another.
1:03:29>> Well, what did you hear about the place
1:03:32that that that where she was found? What
1:03:34did you hear about the place where she
1:03:36was found?
1:03:37>> That she was burned. up. Okay. All
1:03:40right. And who told you that?
1:03:43>> A lot of people.
1:03:45>> Who was the first person to tell you
1:03:47that?
1:03:51>> I think my dad.
1:03:53>> What?
1:03:53>> I think my dad.
1:03:54>> And what was your first thought when you
1:03:56heard that?
1:03:57>> Who?
1:04:01>> Who was burnt? What that was your first
1:04:03thought? Okay. Well, once you realized
1:04:06it was Tiffany, what was your second
1:04:08thought?
1:04:08>> But he didn't say her name. He said, "I
1:04:10don't know."
1:04:11>> Said, "Where?"
1:04:12>> And when he
1:04:13>> said, "I don't know." Okay.
1:04:14>> And then he text me where I was.
1:04:17>> Mhm.
1:04:18>> And I told him I thought he was freaking
1:04:19out by the truck. I said, "The truck's
1:04:21fine. I got it parked. It's been
1:04:22parked."
1:04:23>> He said, "Okay, meet me at mama's."
1:04:24>> Okay. Police knocked on the door. Let me
1:04:26tell you,
1:04:27>> let me tell you, let me tell you the
1:04:28problem. Let me tell you the problem. So
1:04:30that back floor of yours, right? that
1:04:32black back floor of yours, right?
1:04:35>> And you just said your father or whoever
1:04:38told you something about somebody was
1:04:41found burn. Well, you just said that you
1:04:42heard that they burnt Tiffany, right?
1:04:45>> Mhm.
1:04:45>> Okay. The problem is,
1:04:48>> well, I don't know the exact order. I
1:04:50don't know what they did.
1:04:53>> Well, you need to I'm going to tell you
1:04:55why you need to learn the order. I'm
1:04:56going tell you why you need to learn the
1:04:58order and figure out the order, right?
1:05:00Because the order will determine your
1:05:03position. That's why you need to figure
1:05:05out the order. The order will determine
1:05:07your position and your responsibility
1:05:12uh with this. And let me tell you why.
1:05:15In that building, we [snorts] went in
1:05:18there.
1:05:18>> Mhm. [clears throat]
1:05:19>> We took soul samples, burn samples, all
1:05:23that. Right.
1:05:26real real minute
1:05:28>> pieces of of of dirt and and burn
1:05:32substances, right?
1:05:35The same substances is in the back
1:05:37[clears throat] floor of your car, your
1:05:39truck.
1:05:41the same substances,
1:05:44the same fibers and dirt that was
1:05:47recovered uh from the scene. Are the
1:05:51same are is the same material recovered
1:05:55from the uh the uh front uh in the floor
1:06:00behind your right rear passenger seat.
1:06:02in in front of your right rear passenger
1:06:04seat.
1:06:07>> In front of my right rear
1:06:09>> your right rear passenger seat. So this
1:06:11is your back seat the floor where the
1:06:14tennis shoes are where the tennis shoes
1:06:16are that same
1:06:17>> shoes came off. So no
1:06:20>> is what you're saying.
1:06:21>> So so I'm not saying anything. The um
1:06:24what I'm saying is that same debris, the
1:06:28same dirt, the same substance that was
1:06:31associated with the fire is found in the
1:06:34floor of your car.
1:06:37So this is why you need this is why you
1:06:39need to tell the order so that we know
1:06:41your business.
1:06:41>> I will tell you like
1:06:44I never went from that house into that
1:06:46truck ever. [clears throat]
1:06:48>> Okay.
1:06:48>> What house? I never went to the house
1:06:50that that they went to into the truck
1:06:53that you're saying you got the photo
1:06:54from. I never did that.
1:06:55>> Okay.
1:06:56>> I never got in that truck.
1:06:58>> I do know I don't have the key.
1:06:59>> I'm talking about your truck.
1:07:01>> It's my dad's truck. I never got in
1:07:03that.
1:07:04>> Okay.
1:07:04>> I never got in it.
1:07:05>> Okay.
1:07:06>> With any swim on me ever.
1:07:09>> I I I didn't say I didn't say I didn't
1:07:12necessarily say you. I'm telling you
1:07:14that
1:07:15>> I don't I don't What I'm saying is I
1:07:17don't know when the shoes appeared. I'm
1:07:18just telling you when I noticed them
1:07:20>> and the soul that uh the carpet fibers
1:07:23we analyzed all of that.
1:07:25>> Yeah, we analyzed all that. It's the
1:07:27same.
1:07:27>> But I'm just now getting this.
1:07:30>> It's the same.
1:07:30>> I thought they've been there.
1:07:32>> It's the same
1:07:34and put them in there.
1:07:35>> It's the same. It's the same dirt. The
1:07:38same
1:07:41that was found in that house was found
1:07:43and matched to your car.
1:07:45>> I get what you're saying. So that's why
1:07:47I'm saying you need to learn the order
1:07:49because the the order you knowing the
1:07:51order is going to determine your
1:07:53responsibility with this. You
1:07:55>> pretty much
1:07:56>> I know that you're what you say. What
1:07:58you say? What' you say, Bob? He what?
1:08:01>> Ain't no pretty much you. You You
1:08:03already
1:08:04>> pretty much planted the shoes.
1:08:06>> No, no, no, no, no.
1:08:07>> The shoes weren't there to begin with. I
1:08:10don't have the keys.
1:08:12>> Okay.
1:08:14Okay. So he planted it pretty much to
1:08:16make sure that somebody was going to go
1:08:18down if they told with him.
1:08:21>> Why don't you have the keys?
1:08:23>> Because they were taken from me.
1:08:25>> By who?
1:08:25>> I don't know. I had knotted out
1:08:30in Clint's house and I had a bag
1:08:34that had a little purse in it. The
1:08:36little purse I had the keys on me. The
1:08:40keys kept pulling my shirt down. So, I
1:08:42took them off and I put them in that
1:08:43purse. The keys are gone.
1:08:47And my guarantee is they're going to be
1:08:49all silly.
1:08:50That's my guarantee. I have a house key
1:08:52on it. I found a little keychain with a
1:08:56plug on it at the house. It's got like a
1:08:58little thing to put on a drink.
1:09:00>> So, now this is where the story gets and
1:09:02this is why I'm saying you got to you
1:09:04got to know this order in order to
1:09:07determine your position in this. When
1:09:09you went down Seventh Street, okay, and
1:09:12you saw what house did you see them
1:09:14walker in?
1:09:16>> The first one.
1:09:19>> When you say the first one, would that
1:09:20would that is that a corner house, a
1:09:22middle house? What?
1:09:24>> It's the house that's in right there by
1:09:27the alley.
1:09:30It's It's from the back, not the front.
1:09:34They were going in the back. So, it was
1:09:36the house. How long did you wait out in
1:09:39the truck for them to come back out?
1:09:40>> I didn't wait out in the truck for them
1:09:42to come out.
1:09:42>> So they walk her in the in the house and
1:09:44you leave.
1:09:45>> Yes.
1:09:46>> So why didn't you tell us that part and
1:09:48you you kind of left that whole part
1:09:50about
1:09:51>> coming down an alley and now the same
1:09:53people who are in your truck take her
1:09:55out and walk into a vacant house.
1:09:58>> And you left that. That's kind of big.
1:10:00>> That's that's huge.
1:10:01>> I understand that you're afraid of these
1:10:03people. I get it.
1:10:05>> Mhm.
1:10:07I get it. No, no, no. I do get it. How
1:10:10old are you?
1:10:11>> 28.
1:10:12>> Okay. Well, he's been doing this as long
1:10:14as you've been alive, and I've been
1:10:16doing this since you were three.
1:10:18>> So, do you know how many people have sat
1:10:19over there in your same position? I get
1:10:22that you are terrified. But let me
1:10:23explain something to you in the simplest
1:10:25terms that I can, Bobby. Look at me.
1:10:28The answers that you provide to this man
1:10:30in the next 10 minutes
1:10:32>> will decide whether or not you go home
1:10:35and see your father
1:10:36>> or you go to prison.
1:10:40>> You cannot leave out.
1:10:43>> Oh, I forgot
1:10:45>> the fact that you drove down an alley
1:10:48>> to a corner
1:10:49>> to a corner house and the people take
1:10:51her into a house and then you drive
1:10:53away. You forgot that part and you
1:10:55didn't forget it. You just didn't want
1:10:56to tell us that because you didn't think
1:10:58that we know it, but we know a lot.
1:11:01>> He walked to the deck.
1:11:03>> Do you know how long you've been down
1:11:04here?
1:11:05>> You know how long you've been down here?
1:11:06It's 9:20. You've been here since 2:00.
1:11:09>> Yeah, I know.
1:11:10>> Do you know how many people we've talked
1:11:11to?
1:11:13>> A lot of people. You know why you're
1:11:16last? Because everybody's been talking
1:11:18about you.
1:11:20>> Probably because they see me and they
1:11:22know me.
1:11:23>> Probably.
1:11:23>> They know me. You were in the truck when
1:11:25this happened. When the abduction
1:11:27happens, right?
1:11:28>> Mhm.
1:11:29>> You drive [snorts and clears throat] off
1:11:31>> with the people who are abducted and the
1:11:33abductors.
1:11:35>> You tell us you went one way, but you
1:11:37didn't.
1:11:37>> One abductor got in.
1:11:39>> Well, there's always one person. One
1:11:41person was taken and one person did and
1:11:43they both got in the vehicle with you.
1:11:45>> You tell us you went one way, went back,
1:11:47you went the other. And then Mark says,
1:11:49"You didn't go that way. You went this
1:11:51way." Okay. Yeah, you're right. I think
1:11:53I went to this street. I'm not sure. No,
1:11:55you know exactly where you went.
1:11:56>> You know exactly what happened after
1:11:59they got out of the car and he didn't
1:12:00tell us.
1:12:01>> Hey Bobby, you and Grace say something
1:12:02about the fence. He walked her what?
1:12:05>> He walked her to the back of that fence.
1:12:07They went in.
1:12:08>> Mhm.
1:12:08>> Later on that day, I did go back, but
1:12:11she was alive.
1:12:12>> Okay. Thank you.
1:12:12>> And I asked her because he left.
1:12:16>> Uhhuh.
1:12:17>> He left me with her.
1:12:18>> Mhm. Okay. and
1:12:21she was sitting here and she kind of was
1:12:25coming to me and saying
1:12:28that Tyler took everything.
1:12:30>> So I called Philly and I said she's
1:12:32saying Tyler took it all. He said she
1:12:34lying. I said
1:12:37um well he said break her jaw.
1:12:39>> Didn't [clears throat] touch her.
1:12:41>> Didn't touch her.
1:12:41>> Okay.
1:12:42>> Never touched her.
1:12:43>> Okay, that's good.
1:12:44>> One time.
1:12:45>> Okay.
1:12:45>> Never touched her. I can pass a
1:12:47polygraph to that.
1:12:48>> Okay. Never touched.
1:12:49>> Now, where is this? Where is it?
1:12:51>> That vacant house.
1:12:52>> So, now that vacant
1:12:57house,
1:12:58>> which is explains why dirt, right?
1:13:00>> But when I left is when I ran into that
1:13:02black, dude.
1:13:02>> Okay. But kept saying he knows
1:13:05everybody.
1:13:06>> Okay, hold on. Stop. Stop.
1:13:08>> Don't stop. You're getting ahead of
1:13:09yourself.
1:13:10>> So, so the the vacant house, what part
1:13:14of the vacant house were you all in?
1:13:17>> The bottom. The what's the what's the
1:13:19bottom called?
1:13:20>> Basement.
1:13:21>> Okay. Okay. The basement. How did you
1:13:24get in the house? Front door, back door
1:13:27that.
1:13:27>> Okay.
1:13:27>> Like the basement.
1:13:29>> Yeah. Okay.
1:13:29>> So now the other thing, how hard was
1:13:31that?
1:13:31>> So he did not listen.
1:13:34Remember, we know, right? You'd be
1:13:36surprised how we find out stuff. He
1:13:38didn't just leave you with her with her
1:13:41like being free to go anywhere, right?
1:13:44So, how how how did he have her secured
1:13:49>> when when she was alive?
1:13:51>> Yeah. In the in the basement.
1:13:53>> She was sitting on the steps.
1:13:55>> Uhhuh.
1:13:56>> When and she was tied up.
1:13:57>> Okay.
1:13:58>> She had her hands behind her,
1:14:00>> something in her mouth
1:14:02and her hands and her feet tied
1:14:04together.
1:14:04>> Okay. Okay. What does she
1:14:06>> I don't I can't tell you exactly how
1:14:08when the hell was that because I wasn't
1:14:10trying to pay attention to all of them.
1:14:12>> Right. Right. Right. Right. [laughter]
1:14:14Right. Right.
1:14:14>> Cuz now you're in the middle of
1:14:15something and you're like,
1:14:16>> "No, because I don't want to be in the
1:14:18middle."
1:14:18>> That's what I'm saying. You're like,
1:14:19"What the hell?
1:14:19>> I don't want to be in the middle of it
1:14:21because I don't That's not something
1:14:23that I do. I'm not a criminal. I don't
1:14:25Taking a life is not worth
1:14:29$200 and six pills."
1:14:32>> Right. I agree.
1:14:34>> I agree. So, let me ask you this. So,
1:14:36when you all get in the basement, right?
1:14:38when you all get in the basement. Um,
1:14:42it's just at this point it's just you,
1:14:44Tiffany, and Yes. and Philly.
1:14:46>> So, when I left and I ran into this
1:14:48black dude
1:14:49>> that that's that we going to get to
1:14:50that,
1:14:50>> but listen to why I'm why I'm saying
1:14:52this,
1:14:53>> okay?
1:14:53>> Because when I ran into him, his name,
1:14:56he goes by T. I don't know his real
1:14:57name. I've never seen him before. He
1:14:59said that he owns the block. It's
1:15:01secure.
1:15:02>> Mhm.
1:15:02>> Pretty much. He's telling me that he has
1:15:04a girl. It didn't click right then and
1:15:05there cuz I had left. I walked up to
1:15:07Paxico.
1:15:09>> When I had come back, he was out there
1:15:11again.
1:15:12>> I had somebody with me, a black dude. I
1:15:15think his name is Ace.
1:15:16>> Mhm.
1:15:17>> I don't really know his name, but I'm
1:15:20pretty sure it's Ace. That's what I
1:15:21hear. I heard a couple people call him.
1:15:24And it's not a little Ace. It's an older
1:15:26one. And he lives somewhere in county.
1:15:29He doesn't live in the city,
1:15:31>> but he's in the city right now.
1:15:33>> He lives in Park or some
1:15:35>> Okay. So, he was with me when I ran back
1:15:37into this dude because he didn't know
1:15:39who he was. He said, "I want to make
1:15:40sure that you're not being set up." So,
1:15:42he walked with me. And this dude when
1:15:44when I first ran into him, he asked me
1:15:46where Philly was.
1:15:47>> Okay.
1:15:47>> He said, "Is he still around the way?"
1:15:49[clears throat]
1:15:50>> Like, he was trying to implicate. He
1:15:52knew where he was.
1:15:52>> Mhm.
1:15:53>> And I said,
1:15:55"Yeah, he's up up the way, I guess." And
1:15:58he said, "You trying to get some girls?"
1:16:00The girl. He said, "Do you date?" I
1:16:02said, "No, not at the moment." I kept on
1:16:04walking. When we came, me and him came
1:16:07back.
1:16:09The dude was standing on the corner. The
1:16:12one dude left his alcohol bottle with me
1:16:15and left
1:16:17and I went to the bathroom of the house
1:16:21and then dude said, "Hang on a second.
1:16:22I'll be with you." And he kept asking me
1:16:24if I was buying boy. And I didn't notice
1:16:26what I didn't notice until I first
1:16:28>> I noticed phone in his hands.
1:16:30>> So when did that happen?
1:16:31>> Yeah. So yeah, so before we get to let's
1:16:35>> It sounds It sounded like Philly's name
1:16:38Philly was upstairs.
1:16:39>> All right, let's circle back real quick
1:16:40and then we'll come back.
1:16:43You leave the Family Dollar. Drive the
1:16:45seven. I know what we got. Drive the
1:16:47seventh. You're in the alley. You take
1:16:51Tiffany out of the truck into the
1:16:53vacant.
1:16:54>> I hold him.
1:16:55>> He took her.
1:16:56>> Okay. You
1:16:57>> he had he had called
1:16:59>> you take you're in the you're in the
1:17:01vacant house where he told us he told
1:17:04you where to park
1:17:06where was your truck
1:17:07>> the first time on six and and something
1:17:13the the piece you're missing here is
1:17:16I told you when I went to Jerry and and
1:17:19Jeremy and Saunders a sale picked me up
1:17:22when I got done with the sale I had
1:17:24called. He didn't have the phone. All of
1:17:28a sudden, I met up with that black dude
1:17:29that I was telling you. I met up with
1:17:32that black dude that is named Ace
1:17:34because he's the one that was answering
1:17:36the phone.
1:17:38So, he was the one that was there for a
1:17:41period of time. Philly was not at that
1:17:43bando.
1:17:44>> My point is that
1:17:45>> I went back and
1:17:46>> when you are in the alley
1:17:50>> and the house is here, right? The burnt
1:17:53up house. the very back.
1:17:56>> When you get out of the truck and you go
1:18:00into the basement with Tracy, with
1:18:03pretty whatever you want to call her,
1:18:06does she go does she what is her
1:18:09demeanor going into that house
1:18:13with Philly and you?
1:18:16She wasn't.
1:18:21She was
1:18:23I don't know how to explain it.
1:18:28>> It was like she kind of
1:18:31it she didn't expect it to happen
1:18:33either.
1:18:34>> Didn't expect what to happen.
1:18:35>> She didn't expect what happened to her
1:18:36happened.
1:18:37>> Okay. When you walk into that basement
1:18:39with her,
1:18:39>> she didn't expect it.
1:18:41>> She didn't expect it.
1:18:42>> She didn't expect
1:18:43>> What was What was her demeanor?
1:18:44Describe
1:18:45>> something like that would usually
1:18:46happen.
1:18:47>> Describe her walking into that basement
1:18:49with you and Philly.
1:18:51>> At first, she was when we first went
1:18:53back there, she wasn't freaking out or
1:18:56nothing. She She stayed calm and she was
1:18:57talking to us cuz she was lying.
1:18:59>> She wasn't saying the right thing.
1:19:01>> So, asked me to go get
1:19:04>> um
1:19:06>> I don't remember what he asked me to get
1:19:08first.
1:19:09He asked me find duct tape.
1:19:11>> Okay.
1:19:12I couldn't find duct tape. I couldn't
1:19:14find anything.
1:19:15>> Is this your truck you're talking about?
1:19:16Or
1:19:17>> No, it wasn't.
1:19:18>> This is where you are to the Are you in
1:19:20the house or your house? Just out back
1:19:23>> of Clint.
1:19:24>> No. When he tells you to go find duct
1:19:26tape, where are you?
1:19:28>> Out back
1:19:28>> of the house that you walked her in.
1:19:30>> Yes.
1:19:31>> I was on the back steps.
1:19:33>> Okay.
1:19:34>> Describe Describe her demeanor. when I
1:19:36left. Well, I'm sure after hearing duct
1:19:39tape, I didn't I wasn't trying to pay
1:19:41attention to all that.
1:19:42>> Okay.
1:19:43>> You know, well,
1:19:44>> that's a pure
1:19:45>> Okay. So, let me So, when does she get
1:19:49So, then you get you take her in the
1:19:50house.
1:19:51>> Who t Who ties? Who ties her hand? Who
1:19:54ties her up?
1:19:54>> In the house when he told me to go get
1:19:55the duct tape.
1:19:56>> Okay. So, there is there in the house.
1:19:58You are in the house. He tells you go
1:19:59get duct tape. How does he tie her up?
1:20:01[snorts]
1:20:03>> This is the thing. I wasn't there when
1:20:05you did it.
1:20:06>> Okay.
1:20:07>> He He
1:20:09when I seen it, it
1:20:14>> go demonstrate.
1:20:15>> Explain.
1:20:16>> Demonstrate. Her hands weren't behind
1:20:18her.
1:20:18>> How was she on the floor? How was she?
1:20:19How was she?
1:20:20>> Her hands were behind her back. She was
1:20:22on the steps.
1:20:23>> Okay. She was on the steps.
1:20:24>> She Her hands were behind her back.
1:20:26>> Mhm.
1:20:26>> Cuz when he punched her in the face is
1:20:28when she went to the floor.
1:20:29>> Okay. But she wasn't dead
1:20:32>> because she was trying to act like she
1:20:34was out. You know what I mean?
1:20:36>> So that's when he had told me to leave.
1:20:41He told me to go get
1:20:44what was the second thing?
1:20:49Go get Go get our homeboy. I said who?
1:20:54He said our homeboy. And I left because
1:20:58I wasn't going to keep saying Hillary.
1:21:00So when I left when I ran into that
1:21:02dude,
1:21:04but I don't know who the he is.
1:21:06>> What did What did What did she when he
1:21:08when he punched her? What does he have
1:21:10on at that time?
1:21:12>> What?
1:21:13>> What did she Where was he?
1:21:14>> Nothing.
1:21:16>> What' you say?
1:21:16>> Nothing.
1:21:18>> Okay. When did he strip her or when did
1:21:20you strip her? Or when did she
1:21:21>> I didn't strip her.
1:21:22>> When was she [snorts] stripped?
1:21:23>> I don't know. I wasn't there when I when
1:21:26I was I had I left when I left to go get
1:21:29the duct tape is when I
1:21:31>> Where were you going to get the duct
1:21:33tape? Where were you?
1:21:34>> Trying to go to Clinton cuz I didn't
1:21:36know where to get it.
1:21:36>> Okay. So then you come back and she's
1:21:38naked.
1:21:39>> Yes. When I come back she was naked. And
1:21:42then I left again when he said go get
1:21:45the homeboy cuz I didn't know the [ __ ]
1:21:47I'm talking about. I he said call the
1:21:49phone and meet up with the dude. But I
1:21:50was calling I wasn't recognizing the
1:21:52voice. You know what I mean? I kept on
1:21:53walking and that's when I ran to Ace and
1:21:55Ace walked back with me to that dude.
1:21:57>> When you Okay, stop right there. When
1:21:59you when you left to go get the duct
1:22:02tape and you come back, that's when you
1:22:04saw her naked.
1:22:07>> Yes.
1:22:07>> Where are the clothes?
1:22:09>> I don't know. They weren't there.
1:22:11>> Was she Was she the Was she still
1:22:13conscious when you um came back? What
1:22:15did she say to you?
1:22:17>> They were pretty.
1:22:18>> Yeah. She Well, she was waiting on the
1:22:20for pretending like she was Are you
1:22:22talking about after?
1:22:24>> All right. So, you you you all escort
1:22:27her or you you all take her into the
1:22:29house and and once in the house, he
1:22:32tells you to leave and go get some duct
1:22:33tape, right?
1:22:34>> Yes.
1:22:34>> All right. At that time, does she have
1:22:36clothes on?
1:22:38>> Yes.
1:22:39>> Okay. How long did it take you to go for
1:22:42duct tape?
1:22:46>> 15, 20 minutes. And so why didn't you
1:22:48bring any duct tape back? Duct tape?
1:22:50Because I'm really trying wasn't trying
1:22:51to do it.
1:22:52>> Okay. So then why would you just even
1:22:54Well, what made you come back?
1:22:56>> I went back with Ace. Ace went into
1:23:00Bry's house, which is the yellow house
1:23:03>> next to Clint.
1:23:04>> He was smoking girl with some white boy.
1:23:07>> Okay.
1:23:08>> And I don't know the white boy's name.
1:23:10>> Okay.
1:23:10>> Then we left there and that's when I
1:23:12told him what he needed and I didn't
1:23:14know what the home boy's name was.
1:23:17But let's let's get back to the point
1:23:19that you went to get the duct tape. You
1:23:21couldn't find it or you wasn't going to
1:23:23get it, but you come back and you find
1:23:25her unclothed.
1:23:27>> She was unclothed. Yeah.
1:23:28>> Okay. When And I'm sorry. At that point,
1:23:31she's taped up. No, she
1:23:33>> when she was naked, she was still
1:23:34conscious
1:23:35>> and
1:23:36>> she was sitting up. She
1:23:37>> When you left the first time, is she
1:23:39tied up?
1:23:41>> When you left to go get the duct tape,
1:23:43was she tied up?
1:23:44>> No. When you come back a second time,
1:23:47she's naked and tied up.
1:23:48>> He had to have left or somebody had to
1:23:50have come with with something to tie her
1:23:52up
1:23:53>> or unless he grabbed something out of
1:23:54the pocket. I don't know exactly what he
1:23:56tied her with. I'm I'm not certain on
1:23:59that. I do know that it looked like a
1:24:02cord.
1:24:03>> Okay.
1:24:04>> Of some sort.
1:24:05>> Okay.
1:24:05>> I don't know
1:24:06>> what's over her head.
1:24:08>> What's on her head?
1:24:09>> Mhm. She wearing a hat. She
1:24:11>> I don't know what it is. Okay.
1:24:12>> Can you see her face?
1:24:13>> No. There's something on her head.
1:24:15>> Yes. Something's over her head. She's
1:24:18pretty much anything that was done was
1:24:19covered.
1:24:21>> Anything [snorts] that was
1:24:22>> done to her was covered.
1:24:26>> At this point, was she At this point
1:24:28when when when she was covered, did you
1:24:30suspect that she was
1:24:31>> She was definitely not there.
1:24:32>> She was what?
1:24:33>> She wasn't there.
1:24:34>> How do you know?
1:24:36>> You just know.
1:24:37>> You said she was
1:24:38>> She wasn't moving or none of that.
1:24:39>> Oh, you said she was dead. He was dead
1:24:42at that time.
1:24:44>> Okay. When you walked back in, what does
1:24:46Philly say to you when she's dead on the
1:24:48floor?
1:24:49>> Philly wasn't there. Philly was abando,
1:24:53>> but not that abando.
1:24:56>> No, he's a bando. Impossible. [snorts]
1:24:59>> So, when you come back to the house,
1:25:02she's bound, she's nude, she's something
1:25:05on her head, and she's dead.
1:25:08>> Yes.
1:25:09>> And Philly's not there.
1:25:11>> No. And what do you do?
1:25:13>> I was when I caught back up with him, we
1:25:15ran back into each other and he showed
1:25:17me a bandit to go to.
1:25:19>> What did What did he say when you said
1:25:22what in the Cuz did you
1:25:25>> Well, first of all, I didn't really ask
1:25:27any questions. I It's a need no basis. I
1:25:31didn't want to ask. I didn't want to
1:25:33know. [snorts]
1:25:35want [clears throat]
1:25:36I didn't want to be involved in it
1:25:38because if I start asking questions it
1:25:40becomes a problem.
1:25:40>> So stop right there. I'm I'm going to
1:25:43tell you to stop right there. Okay. And
1:25:45and and and you're doing fine by being
1:25:48more forthcoming. Right. So the problem
1:25:51with with with you now is this.
1:25:55Philly did not feel comfortable.
1:25:58He felt comfortable enough to do
1:26:03have you come down there to the dollar
1:26:05store, take her into the back of the uh
1:26:09vacant house or whatever and into the
1:26:11basement. He felt comfortable enough to
1:26:14to tell you to um to to go get some duct
1:26:18tape. Um you felt comfortable enough
1:26:21with the situation to even come back
1:26:24>> because because because you all both
1:26:26were upset with her. You felt betrayed
1:26:28by her, right? So my
1:26:31>> my thing is it was never going to go
1:26:33that far.
1:26:35>> Never supposed to
1:26:38accept that. I believe that
1:26:40>> if that was the kicker, I was alone with
1:26:41her. I really hit her.
1:26:42>> Right. Right. Right. Right.
1:26:45And that's the other part. That's the
1:26:46other part. That's the other part we're
1:26:48going to revisit because for a while you
1:26:50were left alone with her.
1:26:51>> And I promise you all you have
1:26:54[clears throat] to not touch her.
1:26:55>> I'm not I'm not Hey, listen. But listen,
1:26:57hear me out before you go through all of
1:26:59that. For a while, you were left alone
1:27:01with her. At the time that you were left
1:27:03alone with her,
1:27:04>> she was
1:27:06>> screaming at me.
1:27:08>> I kept I kept calling Philly because she
1:27:10was screaming at me. That's making me
1:27:11uncomfortable. Philly, saying, "Where
1:27:13are you?"
1:27:14>> Like I I can't
1:27:16>> And then what happened?
1:27:17>> He had said 5 minutes.
1:27:20>> Okay.
1:27:20>> He was pretty much coming back.
1:27:22>> Okay.
1:27:22>> And he had come back and he told me to
1:27:24go get that's when he told me. So he did
1:27:26come back,
1:27:27>> but but but at the time that she's
1:27:30screaming at you, right?
1:27:31>> Yes.
1:27:31>> Listen to me. You about if I put a if I
1:27:34put a towel on you,
1:27:37>> if I put a towel on you, right, and wet
1:27:39it up with a fire hose, you may weigh 80
1:27:42lbs, right?
1:27:42>> She wasn't
1:27:44>> She wasn't what?
1:27:45>> No, at that point she wasn't
1:27:48she wasn't she didn't have all that done
1:27:50at that point. But I was still talking
1:27:52about
1:27:52>> But did she But was she free to move at
1:27:55that point? Was there anything received?
1:27:58>> She was down at that point.
1:27:59>> That's what that's what I'm trying to
1:28:00get to.
1:28:01>> I thought I thought you're talking about
1:28:02>> because she she's much bigger than you.
1:28:04I mean, you would not have been enough
1:28:06to stop her from leaving that situation.
1:28:09>> Not at all.
1:28:10>> Right. So, she was already bound, right?
1:28:15So, what I'm curious about if she was
1:28:16already found, why did he tell you to go
1:28:19get some duct tape if if you know?
1:28:23>> I'm guessing to get me to leave.
1:28:26>> And what's he worried about that for?
1:28:28He's already like Mark said, he's
1:28:30already with you when you go there. He's
1:28:33with you when you take her. He's with
1:28:35you when you leave. He's with you when
1:28:38you go to the house. He's with you when
1:28:40you both take her into the house. He
1:28:42trusts you enough to leave you
1:28:45with her in the house when he leaves.
1:28:48>> Right.
1:28:49>> So So
1:28:50>> and then he comes back.
1:28:52>> Mhm. [clears throat]
1:28:54>> So
1:28:56and and and and if I I'm not screaming
1:29:00at you. You get what I'm saying? I'm
1:29:02just speaking with I'm just passionate
1:29:04about getting to the truth and and
1:29:08understand. Right. So,
1:29:11and and and and and part of my part of
1:29:14my goal is to get you to tell the truth
1:29:16because if you tell the truth, you
1:29:17become a better person because all I'm
1:29:20trying to do is get you to do what's
1:29:21right,
1:29:22>> you know. And sometimes you have to uh
1:29:25uh you know, to to emphasize your point,
1:29:27sometimes you have to change the tone of
1:29:30your voice, but I'm not screaming at you
1:29:32out of anger. All right? It's just for
1:29:35>> for everybody, for for Tiffany and for
1:29:38you. All right.
1:29:39>> I was mad.
1:29:41>> Well, I'm not mad. I'm just seeking the
1:29:43truth. Right. And
1:29:46>> I'm
1:29:46>> because because when you when you when
1:29:48you tell the truth, you become that much
1:29:50better as a person. And and and and I do
1:29:54feel that it's my responsibility to get
1:29:56you to tell the truth, not just for the
1:29:57case, but if I if I if I don't get you
1:30:00to tell the truth, then again, you get
1:30:02to continue on with your lies. And and
1:30:04and as long as you lying, you fooling
1:30:06yourself, right? So, let's get back to
1:30:08this. So, at the time that he told you
1:30:11to uh go get some duct tape and he left
1:30:13you alone with her, she was already
1:30:15bound, right? She was already tied up or
1:30:18whatever. No, when when she when he left
1:30:20you,
1:30:20>> he told me to go get duct tape. He
1:30:21didn't have anything at that point.
1:30:23That's why he told me to go get duct
1:30:24tape. I had left, but I was gone for a
1:30:27while. I ran to Ace. He went to go to
1:30:31find duct tape.
1:30:32>> That's already bound. She was already
1:30:33>> No. When I came back, she was bound.
1:30:36Well, earlier you said that that's why
1:30:37Mark asked you why you had to go get
1:30:39duct tape if she was already found.
1:30:40>> No, no. What I was saying was I went to
1:30:43go find duct tape. I couldn't find duct
1:30:45tape when I came back. She was there.
1:30:47>> Let's just do I don't know where the
1:30:49cord came. I don't I don't know if it
1:30:50was a cord, if it was
1:30:55just so we know. Let's do this.
1:30:56>> I I'm not sure. The very first time, the
1:31:00very first time
1:31:02>> you pull up
1:31:03>> in that alley in the rear of that vacant
1:31:06house, right?
1:31:07>> The very first time.
1:31:09>> Yes.
1:31:10>> You all get out of the truck.
1:31:11>> Mhm.
1:31:11>> Yes.
1:31:12>> You all go into the vacant. And by you
1:31:14all?
1:31:14>> No. No. We
1:31:15>> Hold on.
1:31:16>> No. They him and her got out the truck.
1:31:21>> Okay. You're in the truck. Okay.
1:31:23>> I left. I went and I parked.
1:31:24>> You parked cuz he told you
1:31:25>> I parked. Nobody showed up. I moved on
1:31:28my own.
1:31:29>> And you come back.
1:31:30>> I just parked and then I was told to go
1:31:32to Jeremy and Sandre's house. So I went
1:31:34there and I sat on the boys talking.
1:31:36They kept asking me
1:31:37>> at what point do you go back to that
1:31:39vacant house where she is in
1:31:42>> in the house with Phil?
1:31:43>> 15 maybe 20 minutes later.
1:31:45>> Okay. You go. Why did you go back?
1:31:47>> How long the time period?
1:31:48>> Why did you go back?
1:31:50>> Because he I don't know exactly why I
1:31:54was supposed to go back.
1:31:55Oh, that's when I was supposed to find
1:31:57duct tape. Okay, now I understand. Okay,
1:32:00now I got it. I was supposed to find
1:32:02duct tape. That's I ran into the ace. He
1:32:05smoked. It went back, but she was found
1:32:07already. I don't know. I don't know
1:32:09where the cord came from at all. I I
1:32:11don't know. I have no idea where the
1:32:14cord came from. They disappeared at a
1:32:16point in time. I don't know where they
1:32:17went.
1:32:17>> Who's they?
1:32:18>> Pretty and Philly. They disappeared.
1:32:20Nobody was there. I had
1:32:22>> Nobody was where?
1:32:23>> Nobody was in the bando. When?
1:32:26>> At a period of time. There was nobody
1:32:28there.
1:32:28>> How do you know you weren't there?
1:32:29>> Cuz I went back.
1:32:31>> You said you went back and she was
1:32:32already bound.
1:32:34>> Okay. That was the fir That was the
1:32:35first time I went back.
1:32:37>> Yeah.
1:32:37>> When I was supposed to get duct tape,
1:32:38but I didn't.
1:32:39>> I was gone for too long.
1:32:40>> You pull up. Those two get out. You
1:32:42supposed to go park. You leave for 15 or
1:32:4520 minutes. You come to the vacant
1:32:46house.
1:32:47>> Yes.
1:32:47>> Is she bound?
1:32:50>> What? Not the first time.
1:32:51>> Okay. that he sends you to go get duct
1:32:54tape. But you just said that he sent you
1:32:56to go get duct tape the first time.
1:32:58>> No, I got to get duct tape. No, you
1:33:00messed up. All right, we first we get to
1:33:05the bando.
1:33:06>> Mhm.
1:33:07>> He gets out. He's doing whatever. I
1:33:10pulled off. I parked down on Audrey.
1:33:12>> Mhm.
1:33:12>> They said they were coming but end up
1:33:14being the Ace Duke. So I was with Ace
1:33:18as [snorts] we got we got a ride by the
1:33:20show that we hit. We were supposed to
1:33:22find duct tape. We couldn't find it.
1:33:26>> You and Ace going back with duct tape
1:33:27me.
1:33:28>> Yes. Me and Ace.
1:33:30>> We went back and she was bound is what
1:33:33I'm saying. I don't know when how how or
1:33:36what.
1:33:36>> Okay.
1:33:37>> So now you're back. Are you back with
1:33:39Ace? So now in the basement,
1:33:41>> Ace is going back and forth, but he's
1:33:43not really
1:33:46he's he's not with me.
1:33:49>> She completely never talked about Ace
1:33:51before at all.
1:33:52>> Yeah, I did. That was the dude. No, the
1:33:54dude that was going to the dies. He left
1:33:58me with a bottle of vodka and walked
1:34:00towards the vacant. So he had to go
1:34:01towards that.
1:34:02>> Bobby,
1:34:03>> he knew where I was.
1:34:04You have now told Mark and I about five
1:34:09different stories about being in the
1:34:11vacant, not being in the vacant, and
1:34:13who's there and when, bound, and all
1:34:15this.
1:34:16>> Just listen. Just listen to me. Just
1:34:18look at me and listen.
1:34:20>> When you pull up the first time.
1:34:22>> Yes.
1:34:23>> After taking her from the Family Dollar.
1:34:25>> Yes.
1:34:26>> You're in the truck. You're in the
1:34:27alley.
1:34:28>> Are we Are we correct?
1:34:31>> Yes.
1:34:32>> All right. Stop.
1:34:35Who gets out of the truck?
1:34:37>> Feline Hearn.
1:34:38>> Stop.
1:34:38>> I park the truck.
1:34:40>> Stop.
1:34:41>> He tells you to do what?
1:34:48>> He told me to park the truck on Audrey.
1:34:50>> Stop.
1:34:52When you go to pull off the park, where
1:34:54are they?
1:34:56>> Uh, in the Vando.
1:34:58>> Inside the Vando. In the yard, in the
1:35:00alley. They were walking towards it. And
1:35:03>> did you see them walk in the van? Did
1:35:05you see them walk in the house?
1:35:06>> Physically see them walking in.
1:35:07>> Are they walking toward it?
1:35:09>> Mhm.
1:35:09>> Yes. [clears throat]
1:35:10>> Okay.
1:35:11You are directed simply cuz you just
1:35:14said it to go park the truck at a
1:35:16specific location, right? You go and do
1:35:19that.
1:35:20>> Where does this person ace a sale vodka
1:35:2415 to 20 minutes on a
1:35:27truck was not on Brooklyn Avenue. It was
1:35:30on that next after that next street
1:35:32>> wherever you parked it right
1:35:33>> where you found it that street. I don't
1:35:35remember what
1:35:36>> you get you park the truck you get out.
1:35:39>> It's Jeffrey or if it's Jack.
1:35:41>> You park the truck, you get out.
1:35:42>> He picked me up on Brooklyn Avenue.
1:35:44>> Who's he?
1:35:45>> It's a guy and girl. I don't know.
1:35:47>> Well, then how do they know to pick you
1:35:49up?
1:35:50>> Ace knew him.
1:35:51>> Where?
1:35:51>> He had Philly's phone.
1:35:53>> Where did Ace come from?
1:35:55>> He had Philly's phone. I'm guessing from
1:35:58Philly giving him the phone and telling
1:36:00him what was going down.
1:36:03>> When you got out of the car the very
1:36:05when you drop them off the very first
1:36:07time in that abandoning before he's
1:36:09giving
1:36:09>> He wasn't there.
1:36:10>> Ace isn't there? Ace isn't there.
1:36:11>> Okay. When you go and park the truck
1:36:14wherever I
1:36:15>> Ace picked Ace came I I thought I was
1:36:17talking to Philly
1:36:19>> but when they So you're on the phone the
1:36:21whole time.
1:36:22>> I noticed it wasn't Philly that it was
1:36:24Ace. If you're on the phone the whole
1:36:25time, but not as
1:36:26>> Are you on the phone the whole time as
1:36:29you drive out of the alley and they are
1:36:31walking into the basement of that house
1:36:33and you're parking your truck? Are you
1:36:35on the phone with Philly the entire
1:36:38time? Are you or are you not?
1:36:40>> I don't I don't know.
1:36:41>> So, when did somebody when did Ace
1:36:45mysteriously get
1:36:46>> He's the one I don't know if he was the
1:36:48one telling me to go to sixth.
1:36:50>> What do you mean you don't know if he's
1:36:51the one telling you? You just said that
1:36:52>> because the voice is
1:36:54>> You said that Philly told you to go park
1:36:58the car.
1:36:59>> Yeah, he told me to park the car as he
1:37:00was getting out,
1:37:01>> right? So, where did Ace come from?
1:37:05>> Ace is the dude that picked me up in a
1:37:07red car. He had
1:37:08>> How did Ace know to get where you were
1:37:10in life at this particular time?
1:37:13>> Because apparently that was the one that
1:37:15picked it up. I thought it was Philly
1:37:18and I said, "I'm I'm here." Where? Sex
1:37:21and all. You're like, "Do you want me to
1:37:22go?" He said,
1:37:25"All right." And then hung up. And then
1:37:28I called back. And I said, "Look,
1:37:30there's a dude walking back and forth
1:37:31looking at me where I'm leaving." He
1:37:33said, "Okay, go to Sand, you know. Do
1:37:35you know, do you know Jeremy?" I said,
1:37:37"Sandre's baby dad?" And he said, "Yes."
1:37:41And I said, "Okay."
1:37:43and I went down Brooklyn Avenue and I
1:37:44took the right and I parked and then he
1:37:47picked me up in a he picked me up with a
1:37:50blonde and another dude and it was him
1:37:53and me.
1:37:55>> So it's four of you now in a car.
1:37:57>> Yes.
1:37:58>> Billy and the girl are at the house as
1:38:00far as you know.
1:38:01>> Yes.
1:38:02>> Where do you go when you get in the car?
1:38:04>> Bry. That's where Ace goes to Smith the
1:38:06crack.
1:38:07>> All right. Stop. Now you're at Bry's.
1:38:09>> Yes.
1:38:09>> Who gets out of that red car?
1:38:11>> Me and him. Who's me and him?
1:38:13>> Me and Ace.
1:38:14>> You and Ace. Where are those two other
1:38:16people go?
1:38:17>> They went home.
1:38:19>> Okay. So, they leave. The car leaves
1:38:21>> right
1:38:21>> now. You and Ace go into Bry's.
1:38:23>> Yes.
1:38:24>> What happens there?
1:38:25>> Sits down and he's talking to some white
1:38:27boy and smokes him.
1:38:29>> Okay.
1:38:30>> And then,
1:38:31>> who leaves that house? You and Ace. And
1:38:34you go where? We started walking towards
1:38:37I told him what Philly had said about
1:38:39the um
1:38:42the I told him about the dude that I
1:38:45walked by cuz when I left the vano I
1:38:47walked by that black dude T or he said
1:38:51his name
1:38:51>> you and H go where
1:38:54>> to that dude he had Philly son. He had
1:38:58Philly.
1:38:58>> He had to have
1:38:59>> who?
1:39:00>> The dude that said his name was
1:39:01>> I thought you said Ace had Philly son.
1:39:03They both did.
1:39:05>> How?
1:39:06>> I don't know.
1:39:07>> Well, if you if you think you're talking
1:39:10to Philly and Ace picks you up,
1:39:12>> but in fact, it's Ace you're clearly
1:39:14talking to on the phone because Ace
1:39:16picked you up. Then you go into a house,
1:39:18then you leave the house. Then you're
1:39:20walking up the street with Ace and now
1:39:22you run into this guy. How does he have
1:39:24the phone and he has the phone?
1:39:26>> Dude, listen. I was with Ace when I
1:39:30called that phone.
1:39:32I I was going to I was calling Philly to
1:39:35tell to ask if it was Ace pretty much
1:39:38and the dude was weird making weird like
1:39:42>> what do you mean calling Philly to ask a
1:39:44about Ace? What what does that mean?
1:39:45>> Like I didn't know what homeboy he was
1:39:47saying.
1:39:48>> Go get our homeboy.
1:39:51>> What did he tell you this
1:39:53>> when I went to the bando?
1:39:55>> We're not back at the bando yet.
1:39:59>> I [clears throat] don't know. You do
1:40:00know, Bobby. Think about it, huh? You
1:40:03know,
1:40:06this confuses the [ __ ] out of me.
1:40:08>> Hey. [clears throat] Hey, Bobby. Listen.
1:40:11>> Um, just as simple as this,
1:40:14>> right?
1:40:15>> You You all go there. You parked the
1:40:17car.
1:40:18>> Yes, I parked the car. I got picked up.
1:40:22>> Where? We got dropped off.
1:40:26>> I can't recall it. We went to Brandy.
1:40:28And we'll deal with the dropped off
1:40:30part, but let's deal with the part about
1:40:32her going here in the B. Let's go back
1:40:35to the part where he left you alone with
1:40:38Tiffany in the basement, right?
1:40:40>> Yes.
1:40:41>> All right. How long after when you all
1:40:43first got around there after you all
1:40:45picked her up or forced in the car from
1:40:47the Family Dollar store, you go around
1:40:50there to uh to the street into the house
1:40:52where you all carried her into or at
1:40:55least where him where Philly and Tiffany
1:40:58walked into. How long once you all got
1:41:01there did he leave you alone?
1:41:05>> Maybe 10 minutes.
1:41:06>> 10 minutes. Okay. And in
1:41:08>> It's on the phone.
1:41:09>> Okay. So, and in those As soon as he
1:41:12said
1:41:14it'll be on the time frame like if you
1:41:17can pull up what he says and the and the
1:41:19timing
1:41:20>> and who and who has that
1:41:21>> incredibly 2 minutes that was him cuz he
1:41:23had showed up.
1:41:24>> I said who has that phone that he
1:41:26called?
1:41:27>> The phone that you had that he called
1:41:28you on?
1:41:29>> Tim.
1:41:30>> Tim. Okay. And do you know the cell
1:41:33phone number by heart?
1:41:34>> I don't.
1:41:35>> No. All right. So, so at in
1:41:38approximately 10 minutes he asked you to
1:41:41um watch Tiffany while he left. Yes.
1:41:43>> Right.
1:41:44>> But at the time that he left Tiffany,
1:41:47at the time he left you with Tiffany,
1:41:49she was already bound, right?
1:41:54She was already whatever.
1:41:56>> Yeah.
1:41:56>> Okay. So between the time you dropped
1:42:00dropped her um dropped him off, parked
1:42:02the car. So within 10 minutes he had
1:42:04already found a way to tie her up.
1:42:08>> Yes.
1:42:09>> Okay. Did you see [snorts] be very
1:42:12careful the way you answer this and and
1:42:14just be completely honest, okay? Did you
1:42:18see um when he was tying her up?
1:42:21>> No.
1:42:22>> Did you come in? Be careful the way you
1:42:24answer this
1:42:26because you have to be truthful.
1:42:28>> I know.
1:42:29>> All right. Cuz I can prove otherwise.
1:42:31>> Okay. Did you come in on the tail end of
1:42:34it of her being tied up?
1:42:36>> No, I didn't see her tied up at all.
1:42:38>> Okay. So,
1:42:39>> I've seen her tied up, but I never seen
1:42:41her getting tied up.
1:42:42>> Okay. So, when when he left and left you
1:42:45with her, what did she say to you
1:42:49>> when he left me with her?
1:42:51>> Yeah. What did she say to you?
1:42:52>> He says he's going to his
1:42:54>> What did she say to her?
1:42:56>> What did she say to him?
1:42:57>> What did she say to you? What
1:42:59conversation did Tiffany have with you?
1:43:01>> I I pretty much asked what happened. I
1:43:03said, "Be honest with me."
1:43:04>> Uhhuh.
1:43:05>> I said, "What? What happened?" She
1:43:08pretty much told me that she took the
1:43:09money. She took the drugs. She didn't
1:43:11mention the gun. She said, "The Tyler
1:43:13rated the truck."
1:43:14>> Mhm. [clears throat]
1:43:15>> I said, "Well, who took the keys out of
1:43:16this?" And she didn't know.
1:43:19>> So, when he came back, I told her what
1:43:20he said, and [clears throat] he pretty
1:43:22much said, "She's lying."
1:43:23>> Mhm. And then he kept answering the
1:43:26phone and I overheard him say, "She's
1:43:28lying."
1:43:30>> I don't know if he's talking about her,
1:43:32which I'm assuming he is or what, but at
1:43:36this point he had asked me.
1:43:39I don't I don't I don't remember what he
1:43:42asked me to go do.
1:43:43>> Mhm. [clears throat]
1:43:44>> Exactly. But I had left and that's when
1:43:47I walked by the black dude
1:43:51back into days a came back and the black
1:43:54dude was trying to like he was trying to
1:43:58get me to buy but I wasn't on Snoke
1:44:02girl.
1:44:02>> Sorry I get
1:44:03>> trying to buy but it sounded like Philly
1:44:05was upstairs. I heard [clears throat]
1:44:07the voice
1:44:09that dude Ace disappeared towards down
1:44:12that alleyway.
1:44:13>> Mhm. After I left the black dude's house
1:44:15because he was like, "What do you want,
1:44:16boy?" I'm like, I wasn't buying
1:44:19anything. I I called Philly Shone and
1:44:22cuz Kelly Philly gave me the code.
1:44:24>> So, you're inside the house now?
1:44:26>> I'm in the back of the the basement of
1:44:28the house after that sale had left.
1:44:31>> Ace
1:44:32Ace went to the side, handed me the
1:44:34liquor bottle. I sat on the back porch.
1:44:36The sale went in, came back out and
1:44:38left. And the dude had opened the door
1:44:40and said, "What's up?" She went to the
1:44:42bottom. I'm like, "What? What's going on
1:44:45here?"
1:44:45>> And at this time, nobody knows that
1:44:47Tiffany's in the basement of that house.
1:44:50>> No, this is this is after that.
1:44:53>> This is after that.
1:44:54>> Yes.
1:44:54>> But at this time, who's watching Tiffany
1:44:56in the house?
1:44:57>> Him.
1:44:58>> Who's Philly? Okay.
1:45:01>> And And then after you do all this,
1:45:05leave the house, this, that, and the
1:45:06other. At what point do you come back
1:45:09and you realize that she doesn't have
1:45:10any clothes on?
1:45:12When I came back, I was supposed to get
1:45:14the duct tape.
1:45:16>> Mhm.
1:45:16>> I came back when I was watching her, she
1:45:18was naked and she was pounding.
1:45:20>> Okay. And what else? Describe how how
1:45:23she was everything.
1:45:24>> She was sitting on the steps.
1:45:26>> Mhm.
1:45:27>> She was sitting on um there's a
1:45:29stairwell of some sort.
1:45:31>> She was sitting on one of the steps. I'm
1:45:33not sure exactly which one.
1:45:34>> Mhm.
1:45:35>> Maybe the second or the third one. She
1:45:36wasn't too far up because I'm not tall.
1:45:39So, she had to be about this length.
1:45:43She was sitting down.
1:45:45Um,
1:45:47Philly came back. He punched her in the
1:45:49face and that's how she got on the
1:45:50floor.
1:45:52>> Then he told me
1:45:52>> And you saw him punch in the face,
1:45:54right?
1:45:54>> Yes. I saw the punch in the face.
1:45:56>> And then he
1:45:57>> then he looked at me and told me to go
1:45:59get her homeboy. I said, "Huh?"
1:46:02>> I said, "I don't know what you're
1:46:03talking about." He said, "Our homeboy?"
1:46:05And it if you ever seen him talk, you
1:46:08see what I'm talking about. He has a
1:46:10mumble and a stutter.
1:46:11>> I got you. I understand
1:46:14what he was saying.
1:46:16>> Especially when I wasn't really trying
1:46:18to pay attention to it.
1:46:20>> So, he asked me to go get a homeboy. I
1:46:22didn't know who it was.
1:46:23>> Mhm.
1:46:24>> I'm assuming it's that dude because that
1:46:26dude had a friend that looked just like
1:46:27his.
1:46:28>> So, that's what confused you because he
1:46:29he doesn't speak clearly or he mumbles
1:46:32and you can't really understand what
1:46:33he's saying. So, at what point do you
1:46:36realize that she she's dead? Yeah.
1:46:40Uh way after that, the next day today.
1:46:44>> No, no, no, no, no, no. You said that
1:46:47during the course of that evening, you
1:46:49saw her and and you knew she you knew
1:46:52she was dead.
1:46:56She was
1:47:01>> No, me and somebody else got sent back
1:47:05to the bando
1:47:06>> to light it.
1:47:08Okay. To light it.
1:47:09>> Yes.
1:47:10>> Yeah.
1:47:10>> She was already dead.
1:47:12>> Okay. So, you went back to light it.
1:47:13>> That's how I found her.
1:47:14>> Okay. So, that's all I want you to do is
1:47:16be truthful.
1:47:17>> Who's Who's somebody else?
1:47:19>> Um, I don't know his real name. He goes
1:47:22by Slick
1:47:24>> in Brooklyn. Black boy, [ __ ] short hair.
1:47:28>> So,
1:47:28>> he got shot in Brooklyn.
1:47:30>> Who sent you back to light it?
1:47:33>> Philly.
1:47:33>> Okay. Philly. What did he say? How did
1:47:35he say it?
1:47:37He was yelling it pretty much yelling
1:47:39>> and
1:47:41angry.
1:47:42>> He what?
1:47:43>> He was angry.
1:47:44>> Okay.
1:47:44>> He
1:47:46was trying to say everybody's life was
1:47:47in jeopardy and so on so forth
1:47:51and
1:47:53it I don't think it was supposed to be
1:47:55the dude at first because he kept saying
1:47:58a name but the name a D but I don't know
1:48:02who that is.
1:48:03>> Mhm. and he knows I don't know who that
1:48:04is but he keeps saying D
1:48:06>> but he's saying he's not available
1:48:08>> and then that dude had walked in and
1:48:11that's when he told him to go buy letter
1:48:14fluid and all that
1:48:15>> and gave him the money and gave him a 20
1:48:18crack.
1:48:18>> Where did you buy letter fluid?
1:48:20>> Sorry.
1:48:22>> Did you go with it?
1:48:25>> The first time I went and bought two
1:48:26loose ones and I really didn't know I
1:48:28was going to buy Letterfield at that
1:48:29point in time.
1:48:30>> You didn't know?
1:48:30>> I didn't know I was going to buy
1:48:31Letterfield right then and there.
1:48:32Where'd you go?
1:48:33>> Um that corner store right there by
1:48:37Hannah across
1:48:39um Ray owns it. The second store, not
1:48:42the first one, not the blue one, the
1:48:43other one.
1:48:44>> Well, there's one hand over
1:48:48hand over here. You cross cross over the
1:48:51street.
1:48:52>> Cross over Papsico.
1:48:53>> Yeah.
1:48:54>> Um so up from the Royal Farm, you cross
1:48:57over.
1:48:58>> Yes.
1:48:59>> You're on handover, you cross over
1:49:00Papsco. Royal Farms is down there and
1:49:03it's the store is on the radio like when
1:49:05you're on hand. You just cross by the
1:49:07store right there
1:49:07>> and and the store is on right or left
1:49:09hand side. Walking down
1:49:13>> walking down hand over toward Belro.
1:49:17>> Left on left hand side. What's it
1:49:20called?
1:49:21>> I don't know.
1:49:21>> Rays or you said
1:49:22>> no Ray owns it. The owner is right.
1:49:25>> What's the outside of the store look
1:49:26like?
1:49:28the corner store with a light. The light
1:49:31is where handover is and then the light
1:49:34and that corner store.
1:49:35>> Did you say it's blue?
1:49:37>> No, the other one's blue.
1:49:38>> The other one's blue.
1:49:40>> So So he tells he tells you all he tells
1:49:42both of you all just cuz he tells both
1:49:45of And what does he say?
1:49:48>> To go get lighter fluid
1:49:50>> and what?
1:49:50>> Dump it in water
1:49:52>> and torch the place.
1:49:53>> Okay. because all of us all of our lives
1:49:57are in jeopardy.
1:49:58>> Okay.
1:50:00>> Okay. So, and then what do you all do?
1:50:04>> Went and bought lighter fluid.
1:50:05>> Okay.
1:50:06>> Hesitated a lot.
1:50:07>> Went back.
1:50:10Um,
1:50:12Slick had asked for he said he had beef
1:50:15with somebody. I'm not sure he was
1:50:17talking about whoever he got shot by
1:50:19[clears throat]
1:50:19>> at a prior time. I don't know exactly
1:50:21when he got shot. When I first met him,
1:50:23he was shot in the arm.
1:50:24>> Right.
1:50:25>> Um
1:50:27he
1:50:30what's his name?
1:50:33He come in. He asked us to do that. We
1:50:36went got the water filler down there. I
1:50:39said, he went he he only could get one
1:50:42bottle.
1:50:44Then he was like, "We have bees." And I
1:50:47said, "That's fine.
1:50:49>> We need to make a choice now. We got to
1:50:50walk away."
1:50:50>> But there you go. You you direct. I like
1:50:52that because he's talking about this and
1:50:55you like, "We got to make a choice now
1:50:56or walk away." Right. Go ahead.
1:50:58>> We walked away. We went back to the
1:50:59Mando.
1:51:00>> Mhm.
1:51:01>> Philly pretty much yelled at us for
1:51:04spending the money.
1:51:06>> Mhm. [clears throat]
1:51:07>> Having to buy more letter fluid because
1:51:10we didn't at first we didn't get enough
1:51:13fluid, I think, intentionally.
1:51:15>> Mhm. [clears throat]
1:51:16>> And at that point, cuz there was only
1:51:19enough water flow to fill like this.
1:51:20>> Mhm. What are you going to do when you
1:51:22shoot that? Right.
1:51:23>> I can't I can't eat my cigar.
1:51:25>> We go back.
1:51:27>> He wants a knife.
1:51:28>> Mhm.
1:51:28>> Well, that's what he says anyway. And he
1:51:32don't Nobody has one until he yelled at
1:51:34us and then we left and we kind of just
1:51:36had tension in the air.
1:51:38>> You had what? T
1:51:39>> tension in the air. Didn't talk to each
1:51:40other for a minute. walked down to the
1:51:43um the bando went in and
1:51:47we went through the back.
1:51:50Went through the back just like how we
1:51:52went in went to the back. I said, "I
1:51:54don't know what we're walking into." He
1:51:57goes, "How much letter do we even need?"
1:51:59I said, "I don't know. I don't know who,
1:52:00where, what, or why.
1:52:02>> All I know is is we have to do this."
1:52:04>> And he was like,
1:52:05>> "Okay." So we went, we dumped the out
1:52:10and he lit the lighter and lit on fire.
1:52:12>> Lit [snorts] her lit what on fire?
1:52:14>> Lit the the thing on her head. He lit
1:52:16the thing on the head is where the
1:52:18lighter went first.
1:52:19>> On what? On where?
1:52:20>> The thing that was on her head.
1:52:22>> So he had the way she was.
1:52:25>> I didn't go near her,
1:52:26>> right?
1:52:26>> She was bound on the floor
1:52:29>> with something on her head.
1:52:31>> I don't know what was on her head. She
1:52:33was bound.
1:52:34>> That's what he lit on fire. And then she
1:52:37lit and we ran out.
1:52:38>> Who put the lighter food on her
1:52:40>> phone?
1:52:40>> Okay. You just put it on her or floor or
1:52:43walls or just her
1:52:45>> and then he lights the whatever she's on
1:52:48her head.
1:52:49>> I think I believe
1:52:50>> is it is it dark out or is it daytime at
1:52:53this point?
1:52:54>> It's daytime
1:52:55>> like early morning. So that happened
1:52:57this morning.
1:52:58>> Yes.
1:52:59>> Okay. [clears throat]
1:53:00>> It it was today.
1:53:01>> Okay.
1:53:02>> That's when we knew for certain what
1:53:05happened. Okay. Did Did Philly ever say
1:53:09how he killed her?
1:53:11>> No.
1:53:12>> He would never He would never
1:53:16>> Well, how I shouldn't say how he killed
1:53:18I said Did he ever say how she died?
1:53:20>> No.
1:53:21>> Okay.
1:53:24All right. Give me a minute. Be back.
1:53:26You need You need to go to the
1:53:27bathrooms. Water or anything?
1:53:31You
1:53:31>> all right? Water.
1:53:32>> Water. Water. Okay. Here
1:53:50[snorts and clears throat]
1:53:52you go, lady.
1:53:55>> Huh?
1:53:55>> Was she dead?
1:53:57>> Huh?
1:53:58>> Before we let her?
1:54:00>> I don't know.
1:54:01>> You were certain she was.
1:54:02>> You were certain. She looked she looked
1:54:05like she was dead, but I don't know.
1:54:07[clears throat]
1:54:07>> Okay.
1:54:08>> Was she?
1:54:10>> Uh,
1:54:11>> it's something I need to know.
1:54:12>> You something you need to know?
1:54:13>> Yes.
1:54:14>> I I I don't know. I mean, you didn't see
1:54:17her moving or anything, did you?
1:54:18>> No.
1:54:19>> You didn't see her moving or anything,
1:54:20right?
1:54:21>> No. Her skin was kind of a bluish color.
1:54:24Huh.
1:54:24>> Her skin was with a bluish color. I have
1:54:26a nursing degree. I've seen it.
1:54:28>> And something told me it had a gut
1:54:31feeling. Okay.
1:54:34Now this what is this?
1:54:38>> What's
1:54:39>> this?
1:54:39>> It's water.
1:54:40>> This is not water. Huh? Bottle.
1:54:43>> What' you say?
1:54:43>> This water bottle.
1:54:45>> This is what
1:54:46>> a water bottle,
1:54:47>> right?
1:54:47>> Is it mine?
1:54:50>> Yeah. Did you [ __ ] No. No. My partner
1:54:52hat. Is this the water I just bought
1:54:54you?
1:54:55>> No. I'm saying is that mine?
1:54:59>> Yes.
1:55:01I threw mine in the loan of the dude
1:55:04that Philly sounded like he was in the
1:55:06upstairs of.
1:55:07>> He what?
1:55:07>> I threw my bottle in the yard of the
1:55:09dude that Philly sound like he was in
1:55:11upstairs of.
1:55:13>> You threw it in the in that yard.
1:55:14>> Yes.
1:55:15>> What? Your water bar?
1:55:16>> Yes.
1:55:17>> Cuz you had water. Oh, that's right. Cuz
1:55:19you missed it.
1:55:20>> We had We had this much water.
1:55:23>> Mhm.
1:55:24>> And the rest of And there was two
1:55:26bottles.
1:55:28And it's like this much water for me.
1:55:32Really?
1:55:32>> There was two of them.
1:55:34>> Okay.
1:55:36>> His I don't know exactly where it is. He
1:55:39walked a little ahead of me, so I don't
1:55:41know where he did everything, but I know
1:55:43where the hoodie is.
1:55:46>> The water bottle I threw in the yard of
1:55:50the black dude that I said his name is
1:55:53T.
1:55:53>> Mhm.
1:55:54>> For a reason.
1:55:57>> His name is T. That's what he said his
1:55:59name. That's not his name.
1:56:01>> And you threw your water bottle in his
1:56:02yard.
1:56:03>> Yes.
1:56:03>> And where's his yard? In proximity to
1:56:06where you all set the uh household order
1:56:09body on fire.
1:56:10>> The courthouse and alleyway.
1:56:13Another alleyway. He's on the corner of
1:56:15it. He's got a back fence leading down
1:56:17to his basement.
1:56:19>> Okay.
1:56:20>> That's the same house I was saying that
1:56:22the dude came outside of
1:56:24>> and kept saying he knew Philly.
1:56:26>> Okay.
1:56:27All right, we we'll figure it out. We'll
1:56:30figure it out.
1:56:32We'll figure it out.
1:56:35>> So, the one thing they didn't have is
1:56:37Willard Turner. They didn't have Philly.
1:56:39Philly had fled to Philadelphia, and it
1:56:42would take about 15 days to catch up to
1:56:44him. But they did have a witness that
1:56:48was at the Bando on the day in question.
1:56:51Um, so
1:56:54the reason that you're down here today,
1:56:56hun, is um, so I'm investigating
1:56:58um, myself and another detective,
1:57:00Detective Vinie. Um,
1:57:03he's on vacation right now, so lucky
1:57:05him. So, we're investigating the
1:57:07homicide um, where we found Tiffany
1:57:09Jones in the in the house. Do you know
1:57:11Tiffany or did you know? I'm sorry. Did
1:57:13you know Tiffany? Was she a friend of
1:57:14yours?
1:57:16>> No, I mean acquaintance.
1:57:17>> Acquaintance. Okay. Um, so during the
1:57:21course of uh us investigating all this,
1:57:24um, you know, we talked to a lot of
1:57:26people down there and
1:57:28your name uh came up in reference to
1:57:32what was going on. Um, not in a bad way
1:57:34or anything like that, just that you may
1:57:36have been in the house.
1:57:38>> Mhm. Um, and so we wanted to bring it
1:57:40down here to a find out if that's true
1:57:43and b to see if possibly um you could
1:57:47identify who
1:57:49brought this person into the house if in
1:57:50fact that's what you saw. Okay, you
1:57:52understand?
1:57:53>> Okay. So, um, is it is it accurate that
1:57:56you were in the house?
1:57:58>> I was in there before they came in.
1:57:59Yeah.
1:57:59>> Okay. So, you were in there. What were
1:58:00you doing in there?
1:58:01>> I'm getting high.
1:58:02>> Okay. Okay. What what kind of habit do
1:58:04you have?
1:58:05>> U crack.
1:58:06>> Okay. used both.
1:58:08>> Okay, let me ask you this. How long has
1:58:10have you had a sub a sub substance abuse
1:58:12problem?
1:58:13>> Um, one and all for the last 5 years.
1:58:16>> Okay. Is it fair to say that when you
1:58:21get high? Um, is it more maintenance at
1:58:25this point? Do you do you to get well,
1:58:28things like that? So, if you get high,
1:58:30um, does it affect what you see, what
1:58:32you perceive, or anything like that? You
1:58:34still know what's going on around you?
1:58:35>> Mhm. You do?
1:58:37>> Okay. All right. If I If you could think
1:58:40back to that day, um, how long had you
1:58:44been in the house before these people
1:58:46came?
1:58:48>> Probably about 20 minutes.
1:58:50>> Okay. So, you were already done and just
1:58:52sitting in the house. Okay. Um, where in
1:58:55the house were you?
1:58:56>> Uh, I was in the middle of smoking.
1:58:58>> Okay. Okay.
1:58:59>> I'm in the basement.
1:59:00>> You were in the basement. Okay. And that
1:59:02house had like been on fire in the past.
1:59:05Is that correct? Okay. So, it's kind of
1:59:07dirty and stuff like that down there.
1:59:08Okay. Um
1:59:10>> I actually cleaned that one little side
1:59:12where I would sit at.
1:59:13>> Okay.
1:59:14>> Like clean, but you know,
1:59:15>> kind of cleared it out a little bit.
1:59:17>> It's where it was where you could sit
1:59:19and
1:59:20>> have nastiness or anything.
1:59:22>> Gotcha. Understand. So, um just in your
1:59:25own words, why don't you tell me um what
1:59:28happened that was it was it was it
1:59:31morning? Was it night time? Was it dead
1:59:32dark? They just kind of
1:59:34>> I don't know. I guess it was
1:59:37in the afternoon, early evening. I don't
1:59:39know. I'm not quite sure. I don't have a
1:59:41phone anymore.
1:59:41>> I got you. Was it day was it daylight
1:59:43out?
1:59:43>> Yes.
1:59:44>> Okay. Go ahead.
1:59:45>> Um I was sitting there. Nobody ever
1:59:47comes in there ever. It's always just,
1:59:49you know, I'm always by myself.
1:59:50>> Mhm.
1:59:51>> And um
1:59:54I actually got kind of paranoid. I
1:59:56actually kind of blocked the door while
1:59:57I was in there.
1:59:58>> Okay. And all of a sudden, I heard
2:00:00someone coming down the stairs, which I
2:00:02was about to run and hide. I'm glad I
2:00:05didn't mean I heard he lit a fire. So,
2:00:08>> right.
2:00:09>> Um,
2:00:11and uh, he was yelling to move the crap
2:00:13from in front of the door. So, I moved
2:00:16the stuff out of the way and he was
2:00:18standing there. It had Tiffany in the
2:00:20headlock.
2:00:21>> Okay.
2:00:22>> At the bottom of the steps.
2:00:25And uh
2:00:25>> when you say he, who are we talking
2:00:27about?
2:00:28>> Um they call him Philly.
2:00:29>> Okay. Do you know him personally?
2:00:31>> No.
2:00:32>> Okay.
2:00:33>> Like he's a dealer around.
2:00:35>> Okay.
2:00:36>> Have you ever seen him before?
2:00:37>> Yes.
2:00:38>> Kind of neighborhood.
2:00:39>> Okay. When you say neighborhood, where?
2:00:41>> Around Brooklyn around like Pontiac.
2:00:43>> Have you ever bought drugs from me
2:00:44before?
2:00:45>> Um I can't remember if I did or I was
2:00:49with somebody else that did.
2:00:51>> Okay. But you knew him as a somebody
2:00:53called Philly. Yeah.
2:00:54>> Okay. And uh is it just him and Tiffany
2:00:58at this point?
2:00:59>> Yes.
2:01:00>> Okay. Okay. Um so when you said he came
2:01:05to the steps that you had the door
2:01:06blocked?
2:01:07>> Yeah.
2:01:08>> Okay. So I guess he assumed that
2:01:10somebody was in there or did he hear you
2:01:12or did you say something or
2:01:14go what the is this and all that? And uh
2:01:19no that was pretty much it.
2:01:21>> Okay. Then he looked in and seen me and
2:01:23said, "Move the [ __ ] out." Oh,
2:01:24>> okay. He looked in and saw you.
2:01:25>> Yeah. He wasn't blocked.
2:01:27>> Got Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. And then he
2:01:29told you to move stuff.
2:01:30>> Okay. Then what happened?
2:01:32>> And he came in and
2:01:36I didn't really know what to do.
2:01:40And um I was standing there and he uh
2:01:43sat her down in the bucket. I was
2:01:46I was sitting on and I started to grab
2:01:48my stuff cuz I didn't know what was
2:01:51going on. He
2:01:53>> first he had me to stand still. He said
2:01:55stand there for a minute and um
2:02:00he was had her down on the bucket and
2:02:01just tying her up. And he said to me, he
2:02:05started talking to me. He's like, "How
2:02:07many times you know my girl talking
2:02:09about Tiffany like screw somebody over
2:02:11or steal from this or that?" But he
2:02:14didn't say Tiffany said my girl. So I
2:02:16kind of he probably like this is a dumb.
2:02:19I'm like who's your girl? Who's your
2:02:20girl? You know I ahead and pick up what
2:02:23he was talking about. But um I didn't
2:02:26really so much answer.
2:02:28>> Okay.
2:02:28>> When he was saying
2:02:31um
2:02:32she was quiet the whole time.
2:02:35>> She didn't she wasn't saying anything.
2:02:37>> Not really. She started to to talk one
2:02:40time was like I don't understand why I'm
2:02:42being dealt with. Then he pretty much
2:02:43just told her to shut the up.
2:02:45>> Okay.
2:02:47>> Okay. So when she comes in, she's not
2:02:49tied up.
2:02:50>> You watch you saw her tied up there.
2:02:54>> I'm not sure if her hands or whatever
2:02:56were tied. I know he had his arm around
2:02:58her head.
2:02:58>> Got you.
2:02:59>> And he had them not even in his hand.
2:03:00>> Okay.
2:03:01>> So,
2:03:01>> but at some point, so in the house, you
2:03:03see him tying her up with Did he Did he
2:03:06bring something in or was it in the
2:03:07house? Do you know?
2:03:08>> There was a bucket already in there.
2:03:10>> Okay. Okay.
2:03:12Okay. Um, did you ever see him strike
2:03:16her or anything like that? Okay. So, at
2:03:18what point do you leave or does he tell
2:03:21you to leave or something like that?
2:03:22>> He told me he said you might want to
2:03:25leave get the out of here now because if
2:03:28you don't when they get here you might
2:03:29not leave at all.
2:03:30>> When they get here you might not leave
2:03:31at all.
2:03:32>> Okay.
2:03:34>> Okay. So, yeah. I can understand why you
2:03:36left. Um, when you left the house, uh,
2:03:41did you ever see anybody else come in or
2:03:43did you just get out of there?
2:03:44>> I didn't see anybody at all.
2:03:46>> Okay. So,
2:03:48you're in the house getting high. A guy
2:03:51you know is Philly brings Now, did you
2:03:54know Tiffany? Like when you saw her, you
2:03:55knew that was Tiffany?
2:03:56>> Yeah.
2:03:56>> Okay. Um, you're in there for a minute.
2:03:59He tells you to leave and you get the
2:04:00hell out of there.
2:04:01>> Mhm.
2:04:02>> Okay. Um,
2:04:04>> in the end, Philly would eventually be
2:04:07extradited back to the scene of the
2:04:09crime where he would be tried and
2:04:10convicted for the crimes committed
2:04:12against Tiffany Jones. He would earn
2:04:15himself a life sentence, plus 80 years,
2:04:18however that's supposed to work. And his
2:04:21sidekick, who didn't even know his real
2:04:23name, she would also get a life
2:04:25sentence, plus an additional 50 [music]
2:04:27years behind bars. Thank you for
2:04:30checking out another case here on the
2:04:32channel. I've got a crazy bit of info
2:04:35coming up in the bonus coverage. Going
2:04:37to hang around. I'll see you in a
2:04:39second. But if not, I'll catch you again
2:04:41soon right back here on They Caught Me.
2:04:45Till next time.
2:05:00Welcome to the bonus covers. Thanks for
2:05:02hanging around. Um, a couple of
2:05:04interesting things I thought you guys
2:05:06might be interested in. Stuff I didn't
2:05:07put in the case, but I thought you might
2:05:09be interested in because you heard it in
2:05:11the case. So, they kept talking about
2:05:13this Hispanic male that was involved
2:05:16that maybe even called
2:05:18um and was the one that got Bobby to
2:05:20pull up the truck. Um, nobody was
2:05:24arrested in the case. They didn't find
2:05:26anybody else. Uh this other guy, I guess
2:05:29it was Slim or whatever it was. Nothing,
2:05:32you know. So, just the two of them, just
2:05:35uh there's two people that got convicted
2:05:37for this crime. And when I was looking
2:05:38through the interviews, that's it. I
2:05:40mean, it was that and a bunch of family
2:05:41members and a couple witnesses and
2:05:42that's it. So, I thought that was
2:05:44interesting. Uh this um I did try to
2:05:47dive and do a little more research about
2:05:49it and it was like, yeah, at first they
2:05:50thought there was another person
2:05:51involved, then they found that there
2:05:52wasn't. So, it looks like that that
2:05:55that's even more damning for Bobby
2:05:57because it looks like Bobby was just
2:05:59sitting there waiting for him to grab
2:06:00the girl and then she pulled up. It
2:06:01doesn't look like she got called. It
2:06:03looks like she just was watching, saw
2:06:06him grab her and then pulled up and
2:06:08let's go. You know, that's what it looks
2:06:10like. So, um cuz it doesn't look like
2:06:12there's anybody that on the phone or
2:06:14nothing like that. So, that's just based
2:06:17on what I found the case logs. The next
2:06:19thing the next next little bit of
2:06:20information. So Timmy Timmy is the
2:06:24husband or you know was the husband of
2:06:27Tiffany and um Timmy's in prison. I was
2:06:31like I'll be dog gone. I don't remember
2:06:32what it was that maybe look it up but
2:06:35Timmy was in prison so or he is he got
2:06:39sentenced for 15 years for gun
2:06:41possession or some gun related charge.
2:06:45Um, I can't tell exactly what happened,
2:06:47but I do see all the charges in the
2:06:49court documents. And it appears that all
2:06:51the charges happened at the same time. A
2:06:54couple of the charges were like for
2:06:55driving, uh, going in and out of of
2:06:58traffic, endangerment, some stuff like
2:07:00that. And then there's the gun charge.
2:07:02So, I'm thinking he got pulled over for
2:07:03those other things. And then the gun
2:07:06charge was the major one that they found
2:07:08on him when they arrested him. So, I
2:07:11thought that was really freaking crazy.
2:07:12Um, also one last thing, Tiffany had
2:07:17more than one child. She didn't just
2:07:19have the little girl that was with them
2:07:20when she was abducted. She also has a
2:07:22son. And the son was with her aunt and
2:07:26her mom. And I saw that there's an
2:07:28interview of that. I didn't play it
2:07:30because all it was, all they really did
2:07:32was tell her, "Hey, your daughter's
2:07:33missing. We're just letting you know
2:07:34we're looking for her." That was it. It
2:07:36was It wasn't really uh too much
2:07:38relevant to the case, so I left it out.
2:07:40But um she did mention the son in the
2:07:44interview and the son I think was like
2:07:4610 years old at the time. He's probably
2:07:47grown now. Um so I'm thinking that the
2:07:51daughter probably ended up going to the
2:07:53aunt, you know, after Timmy went to
2:07:55prison. Hopefully hopefully the little
2:07:58girl cuz she was seven at the time. This
2:08:00was 2018.
2:08:02So you know Yeah. So So she's probably
2:08:05probably you know what 17 18 something
2:08:08like that. Something like that. Not uh
2:08:09uh 16, I think. 16 years old now. Um
2:08:14maybe 16, you know. Um yeah, do some
2:08:18better math.
2:08:20But but she's around 15 or 16 years old
2:08:23now. And hopefully she's doing okay. And
2:08:25hopefully she's with her aunt and her
2:08:26grandma. Hopefully somehow they were
2:08:30able to call when he got arrested cuz he
2:08:32did, you know, I give I'll give him
2:08:34credit. He did have a house that was um
2:08:37or an apartment that was consistent. You
2:08:39know, I see on the charging documents in
2:08:41his case that happened in 2024 that you
2:08:45know for 6 years he had stayed at the
2:08:46same place. So, I mean, at least there's
2:08:48that. I mean, I think there were some
2:08:49drug issues and stuff like that, but I'm
2:08:51hoping that it didn't spill over into
2:08:53the daughter. So, um yeah. Hey, I I just
2:08:56thought you guys might be interested in
2:08:57those those little tidbits there. Thanks
2:09:00again for watching. I gotta get back to
2:09:02work. go plug myself into the wall for
2:09:03y'all, man. Peace.

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