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Immaculée Ilibagiza at Man Up Philly 2020 — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:06thank you so much it's really a great
0:10joy to be here to be here Hughes and his
0:12family but to be with you I have so many
0:17mixed emotions truly I think I had this
0:20the same or last time I came to speak to
0:22you I see men together I can't help but
0:26think of my dad and my brothers I was
0:29one girl among three boys most of the
0:31time my mom will be cooking and she
0:34would ask me you you got to sit with the
0:35boys
0:36go ask questions to dad ask him what he
0:40wants you to do talk to him about in
0:42school and my dad was just so proud and
0:45so happy to always have me bugging him
0:48and questions but to see men of faith it
0:52just touches my heart because again my
0:56father was the pillar of her faith in my
0:59family
1:00he was the one who had to take us to to
1:03Holy Thursday and guru Friday work hours
1:08and carry the cross when my mom was just
1:11not a happy act stop the keys are too
1:14weak you know give them some food her
1:16like no two days in a year they need to
1:19fast but we loved it because it made him
1:22happy yes he truly was a peel of my
1:25faith and a pillow for faith you know
1:27home to see many of you all of you men
1:30here it just makes me so happy
1:33and makes me feel there's hope for the
1:35whole world
1:36because you are here and there are men
1:39of faith most of the speakings I go to
1:43do is always 60% women 20% men and 40%
1:49so to see all of you him like hey this
1:52is it this is a good so anyway as you
1:56heard I come from or wander and I want
2:00to give a witness to share with you a
2:02terrible experience I went through 1994
2:06it was a terrible experience of the
2:09genocide but as our faith teaches us
2:14struggles pain suffering well lived
2:17lived with Jesus and Mary it teaches us
2:21so much so much more it really is a
2:24grace and one of the lesson I learned
2:27through my experience was to know
2:31without a shadow of doubt that God is
2:34real we are so blessed those who know
2:37God you know many people and sometimes I
2:40I watch some speakers and you know in
2:44the world talking how all things are
2:47possible just keep trying never give up
2:49and sometimes I think like oh no we're
2:53human we need to give up sometimes but
2:56only those who truly have faith can say
3:00in a healthy way and safe way all things
3:03are possible if you know you are not
3:06against God you can say all things are
3:09possible we keep trying not because we
3:12can but because he came through us
3:15because through him all things are
3:17possible so it was to know and to have
3:21faith to come to know that God is real
3:24it was a greatest gift I'm so now live
3:27with my faith in a different way because
3:30I know who leads me where I will go
3:33after this life another big lesson was
3:36to understand the power of love I mean I
3:40hear this in this conference speaking
3:42about love it is so important the love
3:46of Christ the love of a lady or mother
3:48in the love we love one another that's
3:51it that's why we are here on earth to
3:54love one another any time I've tried to
3:57dig down to understand what caused a
4:00genocide there is only one answer that
4:02makes sense to me we failed to love one
4:06another and if they are worlds divorces
4:11in in life and in our world today is
4:14because some ways somebody fails to love
4:17one another and if we want to be the
4:20answer to the verse the body we have to
4:23decide to be those loving people
4:26and anytime have tried to think okay let
4:29me then be that loving person I realize
4:32how hard it can be but it is a task we
4:35all have to to take on in and try to
4:38succeed every day and what our Lord have
4:42told us that love is a greatest
4:44commandment it really is because it is
4:48the answer to all another big lesson I
4:51learned through this terrible experience
4:52was to come to forgive to understand
4:57actually that forgiveness was possible
4:59in all situations you know during the
5:03genocide I was a student in the college
5:05and I used to think you forgive somebody
5:08who says something bad about you but not
5:11somebody trying to kill you to kill
5:14those you love your family until I went
5:17through hatred and I felt the pain of
5:21hating maybe you hate one person I hated
5:25eight million people the whole other
5:27tribe and I felt that I had a good
5:30reason to be angry but the more I had
5:32reasons to be angry the more pain and
5:35the more prison I was in my own anger
5:38until one time I remember asking God
5:41please help me help me to forgive I wish
5:44I was innocent again I wish I have I
5:47could think of god of people without
5:49thinking of the bad and the moment
5:52happened when I felt that forgiveness I
5:54was asking God it felt like peace it
5:59felt like freedom freedom to live and
6:02I'm really here to say whatever you
6:05might be going through whatever is have
6:07in your heart forgiveness is possible
6:09with Christ not on our own I have been
6:14privileged to go around the world and to
6:17share with people my story but what
6:18makes me happy and we do the light that
6:21makes me feel that it's okay to continue
6:23to share
6:24it's people who tell me that my story
6:27have touched them I will never forget a
6:29man who told me that he was angry with a
6:32family member he said after I heard you
6:35speak for the first time in 54 years
6:40I was able to sleep in peace and that
6:43the forgiveness I felt that freed me I
6:46didn't need to know much of what
6:48happened to him I just knew what he
6:50meant that forgiveness I also met a lady
6:53who told me after I heard you speak I
6:56went home and I pick up my phone I
6:59called my mom I have not spoken to in 20
7:03years and suddenly it was gone we
7:07laughed and cried she found me back
7:09where I was speaking and she told me I
7:12just wanted to tell you what - how can I
7:15waste so much affection from my own mom
7:18for 20 years because of anger and this
7:21is the prayer I have for you all of us
7:23we all have something we need to forgive
7:26I forgave that I never went back to what
7:29I forgave but today just like you I
7:33still go through trials
7:34I still go through hood somebody said
7:37every new pain pulls a new muscle and I
7:42have to go back and forgive again one
7:45thing for Shaun now I can never be proud
7:47of anger because I know if I'm angry now
7:50with Christ
7:52it's possible to let go so through my
7:55story started again way before the
7:58genocide but especially this testimony I
8:01want to give in 1994 I was a student in
8:04a college and I was home for Easter
8:07holiday I will never forget the day t or
8:09stuttered it was on Wednesday April 7th
8:13my brother came to my room and pushed
8:15the door and gave me the news that the
8:18president of the country was killed that
8:21night I'm Emma jumping out of the bed
8:24and I told him they're going to kill us
8:26I remember that moment especially
8:29because it felt so true that our pasts
8:32was over in just that one second in one
8:36we had two main tribes Hutu and Tutsi
8:39and I belong to the tribe that was
8:41Tootie and somehow we knew they were
8:44preparing something we were not well
8:46loved
8:47we couldn't find a job easy and we tell
8:50you openly oh you are Tootie
8:52so you won't find that drawer
8:54or you can't find a scholarship oh you
8:56are Tutsi but I always felt something
8:59bad is going to happen this hatred
9:01expressed without fear the leadership
9:04was in the people of the other tribe
9:06hundred percent so what was really
9:09behind it it wasn't like oh we hate you
9:11because you do a different tribe what
9:14was really behind it was politico greed
9:17I mean we live in this country today you
9:20know when you see the rivals between
9:23political parties and how hungry people
9:26can get if you say who you like or you
9:28don't like is it was scary I'm not
9:31trying to scare you that the can it be
9:33like in Rwanda but what was between the
9:35tribes was a little bit like that it was
9:38about the power if we kill them then we
9:41never have to share they power them and
9:43that what we have started but something
9:46had prepared us something beautiful the
9:49Blessed Mother's apparitions you know
9:52about Lourdes about Fatima a little
9:55where they loop in Mexico I go to these
9:57places every year because I love all it
10:00is so much but she appeared in Rwanda in
10:04a place called Kehoe 12 years before the
10:07genocide and one of the things she told
10:10the children champion - was that a
10:12terrible thing was going to happen to a
10:15country if we did not come back to God
10:18if we did not come back to respect God's
10:21commandment and leave our faith as our
10:24charge tells us as it is in the Bible as
10:27she even said if you those who say the
10:31Rosary pick up groceries pray for your
10:35country for peace and unity if you do
10:38everyday prayer groups what is coming to
10:41this country will not happen I mean
10:45every single person in Rwanda who knows
10:47whatever it was telling us we wish we
10:51had listened to her but why do I even
10:53share this now knowing we didn't listen
10:5612 years later the genocide started and
10:59we you know what she was trying to
11:02protect us happen is because today I'm
11:06sorry
11:07today we are still here our lady said if
11:10I'm speaking to this country if I'm here
11:12in the land of this country it does not
11:16mean that my message only concerns
11:18Rwanda not even just Africa but her
11:22world so if you wonder didn't listen
11:24today in the USA in the whole world we
11:27can listen and actually I also came to
11:31realize the power of our prayers don't
11:34think that was that to think that the
11:42rosary could have changed with each of
11:45our country two-finger by saying the
11:47rosary I could have still had my parents
11:50imagine what that is our lady said pray
11:54the rosary every day all of us into the
11:57world she even said the whole rosary but
12:00if you can't pray it every day at least
12:03pray one rosary every day I used to pray
12:06the whole rosary before the genocide and
12:08then I would forget and but now I try
12:11not to forget because I know how
12:13powerful it is so when my brother told
12:16me my mind went back to keep a hoe and I
12:19say that's it
12:20terrible our lady was trying to put to
12:23protect us from I came outside I made my
12:27parents everyone was they were changing
12:29the channels to hear what was when going
12:32in a country we find out the leaders of
12:35the country have shut down every
12:38activity in a country they have already
12:41started to kill people of my tribe
12:43because they have organized it many
12:45people believe actually to this day that
12:48the president was on power was killed by
12:51his people because he we know let let
12:54them kill everyone under his mandate he
12:58knew the world will ask him what
13:00happened so they had to kill him to make
13:02an excuse to kill every one of my tribe
13:04I remember by this end of the day we had
13:09so many people coming home asking my dad
13:12what to do by the second day we had
13:15about 10,000 people around my home my
13:19father was somebody who
13:20loved but he was loved because he cared
13:23about people who I see this Muse how
13:27much he cares about more people around
13:31him but all of you and it's just so good
13:36because God reward such effort so my
13:40father was somebody who always cared
13:42about people I remember when he came
13:44home he would always ask what's going on
13:47my village where to speak to and family
13:50who have somebody who is seeking who is
13:52not going to see a doctor and he will
13:54find out what happened how can we help
13:57call the neighbors to go to help I
13:59remember he he we require men and they
14:03will go and sing and build the home for
14:06the poor person and have fun drink beer
14:09and they will just finish the house and
14:11fun I was always like thinking what to
14:14do how to help and I saw it when people
14:17came home by the second day there was
14:21Rekha ten thousand people I'm like why
14:23are they coming here my father was not
14:25the oldest person in the village but
14:28people trusted him that he did care
14:31I still remember parents used to bring
14:34their children to my father to spank
14:37them for them we will have the long line
14:41of children and parents and now I know
14:45why I wish I had somebody who can bid
14:48for me now our children but my dad never
14:52spanked it was allowed in my country I
14:54know it is not allowed here
14:56but he never spanked a child out of
14:59anger when he spoke to a child it would
15:02be wrong he always spoke to them what
15:06the wrong can do to them how bad it can
15:09affect their family their lives
15:11especially and what they can do to
15:13change the wrong and at the end of
15:16showing them what they can be if I just
15:18change the children wanted to be spanked
15:21you know if I can be this great person
15:23you're telling me about just so it is
15:26over until they died I saw people coming
15:29home to bring gifts to my dad and people
15:32telling him
15:33the punishment you give me they talk you
15:36gave me when I did wrong when I was a
15:38child it is what has me where I am today
15:40so those are the kind of parents I had
15:43and I also want to encourage you please
15:45be grateful to people you have in your
15:48life
15:49there really or a gift in my life I
15:52never thought I can ever not have my dad
15:54my mom my brothers all together and they
15:57can all go you know when we have them we
16:00take them for granted your wives your
16:03children please remember to remind them
16:06that you care and you see them and you
16:08see they are their contribution their
16:11love their presence what it means to you
16:13one regret I have is not that they died
16:17when a great I have is that I wish I
16:20have tooken time taken time to express
16:23to them my gratitude their sleepless
16:27nights of my mom and you know the
16:29morning my dad woke up to go to work to
16:33support us all that you think oh he's
16:35supposed to do that until he's not there
16:38anymore
16:39you realize what a gift he was one of
16:42the last image I remember of my father
16:45he had the rosary in his hand it was
16:48very important to him and he spoke to
16:51people of all faiths but of the same
16:55tribe and he said if it is a matter of a
16:59small group that is trying to hurt us do
17:02not be scared fear is our worst enemy
17:06and then he said however if it is a
17:10government they'll plan this I cannot
17:13lie to you they will kill us they have
17:16the police and they have the military
17:18I remember thinking dad you just don't
17:21tell people how to die you know they're
17:22going to die you know you tell people
17:25run do something and then he says
17:27something that really touched my faith
17:29he said even if it was a government
17:32let's take this as a chance God is
17:36giving us to repent our sins so that we
17:40can go to heaven how many people who
17:42know they're going to die like we're
17:44supposed to be happy and just
17:47happy we are going to die and we know
17:49now and he said let's take this as a
17:52chance God is giving us to repent our
17:55sins and when I think about it today my
18:00father wasn't a doctor who was saying
18:02too bad you went to die he was one of
18:06the people who are going to die and he's
18:08saying this is our chance to reconcile
18:11with God so we can go to heaven it was
18:14really maybe the closest person across
18:17this time I came to realize somebody
18:20believes in a god somebody really
18:22believes with something beyond this and
18:25in my family every single night we
18:28prayed together there's no one night we
18:31ever went to sleep without praying my
18:33dad will always start the prayers but
18:35now I doubt it and I see it in him after
18:40I say that actually people started to
18:42repaint I was doing the same people were
18:45not scared they took it seriously
18:48seriously he came he handed me the rose
18:51really hard and he asked me to go to
18:54hide I was one girl among the three boys
18:57so my father wanted me to be see me safe
18:59even my brothers they were pushing me to
19:03go to hide it is really true their love
19:05and protection that I am here today I
19:08went to the neighbor and I told him what
19:11they told me and this man was from the
19:14other tribe and I really have to say
19:16this not everybody was bad in a tribe
19:19not even half of them it was a
19:22government using the name we going to
19:24kill you but it wasn't the case for
19:27everybody
19:27many good people they couldn't say much
19:30but they were there and this man was one
19:33of them so I went to see him he put me
19:37to sit in this tiny bathroom three by
19:40four feet only thing I brought was the
19:42rosary I remember when I showed him in
19:45the place I started to complain in my
19:48heart this is too small for me
19:50how can i where do I sleep where do I
19:53see it where is the table I mean when I
19:56think about it today three days before
19:58before that
20:00I had a scholarship in college I was
20:03paid to go to school three days before
20:05that I had my own home my own room and
20:08my parents house and I had a room in my
20:12college now that was the place I was
20:15when to sit and leave maybe well as I
20:19was complaining the man came back with
20:22five more women later he came back with
20:26two more women that was a big lesson
20:29when you think things are bad they can
20:32get worse and not to scare you that
20:35things should be getting worse but
20:38really what that taught me was
20:40complaining does not help I mean the
20:43moment we have now is such a treasure
20:46what happened yesterday is too late what
20:50we have is a moment when we spend time
20:53complaining how did I get here how this
20:56can happen you just lose the moment to
20:59make a good decision Here I am
21:01what can I do now that was the only time
21:04I felt like God was with me when I was
21:07trying to make a decision from whatever
21:09I had well we had to find space for now
21:13eight people Caleta he brought two more
21:15women and the youngest was seven years
21:18old
21:19the older was 55 others were teenagers
21:23the man was hiding us he told us not to
21:26speak to one another not to make any
21:29noise
21:29not even to flushing the water until
21:32somebody else is flashing the water in
21:35the next bathroom we sat there the first
21:38week was read hard all these emotions I
21:42didn't expect I couldn't accept the
21:44situation I was going on I remember had
21:46emotions like anger that can kill me and
21:50then these my thoughts will go far in my
21:53anger I will think or become a soldier
21:56when I come out and then I would train
22:00my body and then I would fly planes and
22:03I would throw grenades all over the
22:05country and then revenge every all my
22:07family the whole tribe everybody dies
22:09the worst thing about the anger
22:12is that you think you are done thinking
22:15about it no you start from the beginning
22:17again and then I will do that and then I
22:20will do that I will be sweating out of
22:22anger
22:23it becomes obsessive just out of my own
22:26poisonous thoughts I remember feeling
22:29like my heart will be running faster out
22:32of anger my blood will be running and
22:35I'll be sweating out of anger
22:38I remember thinking nobody's touching me
22:40but look what my thoughts are doing to
22:43my body that's when I started to get
22:45scared of that anger then I will come
22:48from anger to fear what if they find me
22:51what are they going to do to us every
22:54emotions bad emotions
22:56it hurts differently like fear I will
22:59feel like my stomach is aching and I
23:01want to go the bathroom it was so
23:03painful and then I would be feel
23:05impatient I can't take one more day here
23:08better die than living through this at
23:11the end of that week the man came to
23:13give us food
23:14mmm I grabbed his food and I asked him
23:17if he can put a radio outside so we can
23:21hear what's going on in a country
23:23because I had to talk it was too painful
23:26to be there he was kind he put three
23:29radios different channels I couldn't
23:33believe what was going on in a country
23:35the leaders of the country who used to
23:38tell us to be good to one another they
23:40were out on national radio telling
23:43everybody to kill every one of my tribe
23:45I remember one government minister he
23:49told his side on radio do not forget
23:51children a child of a cockroach is a
23:54cockroach do not forget all the people
23:56we have to cleanse the country I
23:59remember thinking this is a man who was
24:02a government minister who had a PhD but
24:05look how have become so blind and he
24:07thinks it's okay to kill people that's
24:10when I started to realize this is not a
24:12mistake they're making this is a
24:14decision just to do evil and it was for
24:18us they reported people who may have
24:21killed who run to churches to stadiums
24:23and then they gave order
24:26to start searching every home to see if
24:29anyone was hiding you think it was bad
24:31to be there for one week to think that
24:34somebody is coming to hunt for you it
24:37was it was pain
24:38I've known didn't take long few days
24:43later and member was stretching I looked
24:45through the window of the bathroom
24:47and I saw something at aura was like a
24:49thousand people but actually later I
24:52found out the way 300 to 400 people from
24:56my village
24:57people I knew I can recall friends
25:00normal people they were dressed in
25:02banana leaves they had all kind of arms
25:04machetes long Spears and they started to
25:07come all over the house too hard for us
25:10the only reasonable thing that was going
25:13through my mind was it's over my life is
25:17over
25:17they went to kill me I started to think
25:20how is my soul when to come out of my
25:22body that things you know I as I heard
25:24in my church am I going to see Jesus am
25:27I going to see my parents somebody died
25:29maybe but to wait for them it was like a
25:33Thousand Needles was going through my
25:35body
25:36I am dying but I'm not even fully dying
25:39like maybe what did they say about
25:41purgatory but it hurts so bad
25:43and then in that agony I felt as if I
25:48had two voices over my shoulders and
25:51nothing too strange the things we go
25:54through when we are facing a challenge
25:55and one voice was telling me open the
25:58door and the torture is too very painful
26:02that sounds like me being reasonable why
26:05wait for them to catch you when you can
26:08just go out and end it
26:09this was four-bedroom house there was no
26:12downstairs or upstairs simple four small
26:15bedrooms so I just wanted to go out it
26:19felt like me being reasonable but then I
26:22felt there was a nice voice in me
26:24something was telling me do not open the
26:28door ask God to help you there is still
26:32a chance remember who God is God is
26:35Almighty do you know what Almighty means
26:39it means it can do anything do you know
26:42what anything means it means even if
26:46they open the door
26:47they might not be able to see you isn't
26:50it what we believe our faith tells us
26:52that God is Almighty
26:54those who believe all things are
26:56possible even if they shoot you there is
27:00still a chance maybe if God wants the
27:03bullet might not go through you the
27:05fight I felt over my shoulders was that
27:08one fight was like give up give up give
27:10up the other one was continued to pray
27:13one was discouraging me showing me no
27:16prayer is enough and don't even go there
27:18the other one were just saying keep
27:20praying the fight was about that the one
27:24that was discouraged me another one
27:25encouraging me to keep praying I wanted
27:28to listen to the one that was
27:30encouraging me to keep hopeful and keep
27:33praying don't give up on God but the
27:36body voice convinced me there's no God
27:38don't you see how many children dying or
27:42the mess there's no God and I started to
27:45doubt maybe there is not oh that is the
27:48worst thing can happen to us I remember
27:50the nicer voice I mean to lose faith
27:52I remember the nicer voice in me say it
27:55before you lose faith ask God to give
27:59you a sign if he's there and if he gives
28:03you the sign promised him you would
28:06never doubt his existence existence
28:09again you might not know everything
28:11about God but at least to know if he's
28:15there you have to know for sure and
28:17don't doubt that remember ask for a
28:20specific sign I said God even is anyone
28:24who created me even anyone who put all
28:27this together the moon the stars I beg
28:30you do not let the killers open the door
28:33of the bathroom if they don't open it
28:37today because good people die it wasn't
28:40about let me never die just today if I
28:43see that you are there I promise you I
28:46would never lose my faith in you again I
28:48would just keep asking if I don't
28:51understand
28:52and I just wanted something specific
28:55because it was for my own faith I wasn't
28:58sure if God was there fully now but if
29:00they don't open that door that day which
29:04seems impossible
29:05it means God heard my prayers and if he
29:09heard my prayers something specific I
29:11told him it means he's there so after
29:15that I fainted I didn't hear anything
29:18until about five hours later the man who
29:22was hiding us he came and opened the
29:24door I jumped I thought they have found
29:27us and he told us what happened he said
29:31there were three to four hundred people
29:32young men they came inside the house but
29:36a big number made a circle around the
29:38house so no one jumps out of the window
29:41another number came inside the house in
29:44every room under the beds in the closets
29:48they went in a sitting of the house to
29:51make sure no one was laying there they
29:53went on a roof of the house to make sure
29:55no one was there
29:57they even opened suitcases to make sure
30:00there were no babies hiding and then he
30:03told us at last they came right to the
30:06door of the bathroom before they opened
30:09one of the killers he said you know what
30:12we trust you you are a good man you
30:16can't hide these bad people and he
30:18turned around and he left when he told
30:22us that what shocked me was not wow I
30:25made it what shocked me was oh my god
30:29God is really he's really really and he
30:33heard me my prayers in a bathroom not
30:36even in the church and then I started to
30:39think wait I didn't open my mouth I only
30:43prayed in my heart so what our priest
30:46tells us that actually Gorka me as
30:49inside we don't have to open our mouths
30:51is true
30:53oh that was really a good day because
30:56living without talking it was so hard
30:59but now I know I can talk to God without
31:02opening my mouth I started
31:05him but I realized something was a
31:08little bit scary to think that
31:10somebody's always listening can see
31:12everything I mean we don't have any
31:15privacy I didn't open my mouth and we
31:20can still see everything but what that
31:24did to me
31:24I had to tell God everything since he
31:27knows anyway so I would tell him well I
31:30know you know everything and you must
31:33know I'm really angry but I hope you
31:35don't mind because my situation is
31:38different you don't know they are really
31:40bad I feel like God was like fine fine
31:43but now that you know I'm here what do
31:46you do what does the Bible tells us pray
31:49pray pray unceasingly I asked the man to
31:53give me the Bible to really get to know
31:55more about God and I had my rosary my
31:58father have given me and I started to
32:01read the Bible to understand what's
32:03going on who is God why did he create us
32:06why this mess is happening where do we
32:09go after this and I remember was so
32:12interested in knowing where we go it's
32:15hard to work for price if you don't know
32:18what it is about I really encourage you
32:21to read about heaven to read it to know
32:23what is there what is expecting us it's
32:26in the Bible but it is also in the books
32:28of people who have gone there and they
32:31never come back so I wanted to know by
32:34the way heaven is a paradise the roads
32:38are damn more than gold no more pain no
32:42more sickness no more getting older the
32:45more I read about heaven
32:47I was like why do I care about this more
32:50than this this is eternity and it's
32:54beautiful billions and zillions of years
32:57if you compare that to life on Earth
33:00this is like a dot on a map the more I
33:03want to see heaven the more I'm like
33:06whatever happened here as long as I go
33:08there now I wanted to know how do you
33:11get to that nice place because I want to
33:13know the map of my life don't just leave
33:15like that and I remember reading the
33:18Bible how you
33:19to heaven I remember wanting to read the
33:21commandments of a god I'm gonna okay ten
33:24of them I can do that I can try I can do
33:28this and go there then I started to see
33:32deeper between the lines and little
33:35things written and I remember specially
33:38one thing was really hard for me to see
33:41all of us we know where our shame at the
33:45scene we make what we do what we can
33:48change we know where we can change it to
33:50appeal to God a mine was my anger
33:52so I remember any time I would read the
33:55Bible looking for how can I live and in
33:59a way we'll go to heaven I feel like
34:01these words were floating over the pages
34:04I will open anyway say pray for those
34:07who hates you and persecute you
34:10I'm gonna close that page no no no only
34:13this thing is this is really bad and I
34:16will open another page I love you
34:18enemies oh no no my enemies are really
34:20bad close that page and then I will open
34:23anything anything else you will say
34:25forgive how many times seven seventy
34:29times then I started to get scared I
34:32might not make it to that nice place if
34:35these are the conditions I'm like you
34:38know let me just close the Bible let me
34:40say the Rosary I didn't want to keep
34:42saying that well if you know about the
34:45rosary you don't run away from the Bible
34:48by going to the rosary to me the rosary
34:51is a summary of the Bible the New
34:54Testament in the Old Testament actually
34:57the life of our Lord and his mother the
34:59experience but Gordon ooh maybe that one
35:03year he was going to get me so I say the
35:06face rosary one rosary takes about 20 25
35:10minutes you know how our lady says pray
35:14the rosary for peace when you don't have
35:18anything anxiety you really don't
35:20understand because anyhow you have peace
35:23but when you are anxious as I was I felt
35:27the difference like day and night
35:30I remember seeing the first rosary I
35:32felt like I moved from Hell to a place
35:36of air America oh this feels good let me
35:40sign on the rosary for the first time my
35:43anger my fear or shutdown I ended up
35:47saying the rosary all day from morning
35:50until night because that was only time I
35:53can hear please I remember I counted how
35:56many rosaries I said every single day
35:59but we take me from 6:00 in the morning
36:01until about 10 o'clock at night at night
36:03I say 27 rosaries every single day
36:08and 40 Divine Mercy chaplet every single
36:12day meditating on this time of Lent the
36:1440 days and 40 nights
36:16our Lord fasted and that took me from
36:196:00 until 10 o clock any time I stopped
36:22praying it was like hell was back
36:24showing me how my life is worthless it's
36:27only when I remain in God that's when I
36:29can feel peace however the more I kept
36:33praying my bad voice started to sneak in
36:38you know I started to relax again I'm
36:41saying our Father had Mary and I'm
36:44thinking about people I'm going to kill
36:46if I come out to revenge my family I'm
36:49thinking about my fear how they going to
36:52do bad things to me Malika what am I
36:54going to do even if I leave I will be
36:57nothing that bad voice was talking to me
36:59and Here I am praying then I remember
37:02stopping and said my mother I asked
37:04kool-aid in my heart what do I do now
37:07that the body voice have found me even
37:10when I'm praying I felt in my heart as
37:13something was telling me pray with all
37:16your heart what does it mean make sure
37:20you can hear what you say inside isn't
37:23it funny how we actually have ears of
37:27our hearts you can hear you when you are
37:30thinking or you might not even hear you
37:32even when you are silent he is an eyes
37:35of inside you can see so I felt like our
37:39lady was telling me make sure you can
37:41hear from in aside because I'm not
37:43speaking
37:43outside anyway make sure you can hear
37:46what you are saying and make sure you
37:49mean it you're not lying is not against
37:53the truth you believe in a monic okay
37:56good
37:56let me start now let me say with my
37:58heart and a minute in here when I
38:02started to say there was room meaning
38:04what I was saying everything changed I
38:08can still feel chills in my body just
38:10like remembering that just by the sign
38:14of the Cross I remember thinking okay in
38:16the name of the Father and the son the
38:22father
38:22you mean the Father Almighty my god I
38:25just said in the name of my father God
38:28wow this is powerful and the son my
38:31Savior and the Holy Spirit who gives
38:34strength and I just made a sign of the
38:37Cross but saved me over me
38:39so I'm protected like I started to seem
38:42much deeper in everything I was saying
38:44and what it means
38:46I remember saying I believe in God
38:49Father Almighty
38:51oh my you're right he's my father and
38:54he's Almighty like it's almost like I
38:56never thought about that before and how
38:59many times I say the Rosary but
39:01everything started to mean much more and
39:04I want to share especially with you
39:06because everything changed but
39:08especially how I came to forgive when I
39:11started to mean these words through our
39:14Lord's Prayer is a part of the Rosary
39:17which I say about 200 times a day but
39:20any time I will reach this part that
39:23said forgive us our trespasses as we
39:28forgive those who trespass against us
39:31I realized that I don't mean it and
39:33worse I don't want mean it I hate them I
39:37can't say this if I made that part it
39:42meant condemning myself forgive me at
39:46the same way I do it that means don't
39:48forgive me Mack no no no I want to be
39:51forgiven not them by me I want to
39:53forgiven so don't say that bank or
39:57if I'm in it I am lying to God who can
40:01look in my heart you can lie to somebody
40:04outside and God will not like it but you
40:07can't lie to someone who can see you
40:08from inside so I had a better idea
40:12something said well maybe you can skip
40:15that a part of the prayer I started to
40:19skip it and guess what I feel so much
40:22better I wasn't lying to God anymore so
40:25I kept pray that way until one day I was
40:29about to skip that part I felt as if
40:32somebody was touching my shoulders and
40:35reminding me hey I hope you know our
40:39Lord's Prayer is not man-made
40:42it's Jesus himself who gave those words
40:45if I were you
40:47how then try to change his prayer oh my
40:50god again oh it's so much easier to be
40:54ignorant not not too much but what do
40:57you do when you know you can reverse
40:59that knowledge for the first time in my
41:03life I realized how weak I was I started
41:07to skip that I mean as I was keeping
41:09that and now I realized his him who gave
41:12the words for the first time I realize
41:15again what it meant to surrender if I
41:20trust God to change to protect me in the
41:25bathroom to change the situation in my
41:28country if I keep asking him please
41:30please don't let them find us why could
41:33I trust him to change my heart and just
41:36keep fighting I realized that the fight
41:39is not mine he said pray this way my job
41:44is to do what he said he's God I'm not
41:46if I can't make that happen
41:48let me ask him to help me I went on my
41:52knees put my hands up and I begged God
41:55if you know how to forgive
41:58help me out it's in your hands I can't
42:01but I want to respect you because I need
42:04you I don't want to say I don't want to
42:07hear you but come often say but come and
42:09help me
42:10helped me to change my heart I don't
42:12know how to forgive I put back the
42:16prayer I kept praying now fully as our
42:20Lord said pray until one day by the way
42:24be careful of what are you pray for it
42:28might happen pray well I never knew
42:31between us that a God will ever find a
42:33way to make me forgive and I remember I
42:36was meditating on a thieves or a mystery
42:40when our Lord is dying on the cross on
42:43the Rosary I have thought about this
42:45before but not like this I remember
42:48started to look at what happened how
42:50Jesus in the morning they caught him he
42:53was sweating blood he didn't eat since
42:56the morning they beat him so badly his
43:00body is torn in wounds he have a crown
43:03of thorns where he was falling carrying
43:06the cross on the way this is Naiya three
43:09o'clock and he is hanging on the cross
43:12with nails in his body I mean paint
43:16yourself it hurts
43:18imagine having those nails and to make
43:22it worse I just wanted to see it for
43:24what it is not just like oh it goes so
43:27quickly and to make it worse his mother
43:31is standing beneath him I mean is one
43:34suffering to be in pain but to have
43:38someone who love you most suffering
43:41beneath you
43:42is another type of suffering I'm really
43:45grateful for one thing and during the
43:47genocide it was my mom who died first
43:50she did not have to watch her children
43:53or to hear how they killed them it could
43:56have killed her but then Mary was not
43:59spared of that she's right there the
44:02more I watched them then what I feel my
44:04suffering was less I feel like you know
44:06me I'm sitting the bathroom but you this
44:09is really bad you about to die you
44:11mother has no hope that you're coming
44:14back you about to die she's dead
44:17listening to every word he says and I
44:20remember asking Jesus guy felt like
44:22somehow he answers
44:24prayers maybe in my heart but I can ask
44:27him and he can speak back I ask him why
44:30why did you go through this you could
44:33have come in different ways
44:34you are God you know you could have come
44:37one day not 33 years in our misery why
44:41did you choose this hard way I feel like
44:45God was speaking back to me
44:47because I love you because I care for
44:51you because I wanted to live your life
44:54and give you an example of what life
44:57might offer so that if you ever go
45:01through what I went through if you are
45:03ever rejected nor well loved put to
45:07suffer or know all kind of sufferings
45:10remember I was there before you learn
45:14from me how did I behave that I caused
45:18did I want to hurt anybody as you trying
45:21to do
45:21did I even say one bad word learn from
45:24me and my mother how did we behave and I
45:28restart to think you're right they still
45:30kind he's saving and forgiving a thief
45:33not even reminding the thief like look
45:36you did bad but you should never do this
45:38but I forgive you no I promise you will
45:43we were together in paradise who
45:45forgives like that without reminding
45:47anyone and I kept going through the
45:50words he said and something ruined that
45:52took me by surprise when he said forgive
45:57them father they don't know what they do
46:01it was in the first part it was a second
46:05they don't get it I feel like Jesus was
46:09speaking to my heart people are trying
46:12to kill you but don't even measure the
46:14consequences that will come to their
46:16lives they won't even live with their
46:19own consciences they want their family
46:22will be affected the whole country but
46:24they don't get it and why because
46:27they're blinded blinded by what by
46:30hatred by anger and I realized that that
46:35were we do it wasn't just about them
46:37that what we do when we accept to be
46:40moved by sin when we accept to be moved
46:43by anger by hatred by revenge by all
46:47kind of discriminating not Kay but
46:50others we become blind like them I can
46:54almost see how what about they have done
46:56not just to me but to them and I feel
46:59like Jesus was saying they are also my
47:02children pray for them
47:04I am losing them don't do that maybe for
47:07them but for my sake as their father and
47:10he right if a father is suffering over
47:13the children you don't go to say kill
47:15those children those are his two and I
47:19felt like Jesus was showing me something
47:22as if the world was divided in two parts
47:26a part of love and a part of hate on a
47:31part of love there are people like you
47:33peaceful on the side of hate they're
47:36people like Hitler those who are killing
47:38during the genocide me who was thinking
47:40about revenge ink and I felt like our
47:43Lord was asking me where do you want to
47:45be people on the side of love where
47:49people recommended Teresa people like
47:52the Saints st. Francis people we know in
47:55history of peace Gandhi Mandela who have
47:58suffered and I felt our Lord was telling
48:00me who do you want to be with and when I
48:03looked I realized that people on the
48:06side of love are people who have
48:08suffered who have known hatred but no
48:12matter what happens to them they will
48:14defend peace they will defend love they
48:18will defend truth and yet they have
48:21known suffering somehow that's what I
48:23needed to see our people actually other
48:26people have gone through it all we need
48:28to do is to defend what is right I felt
48:31like a huge luggage was lifted from my
48:34shoulders I never have to hate them I
48:37will have to pray for them and then I
48:39realize also if I can change them to can
48:43change so if I believe in the power of
48:46prayer
48:46it means prayer can change things so let
48:49me pray for them
48:51I they're so happy if you read my book
48:53live to tell
48:54I truly lived like I was lifting from my
48:57the ground I've had so much peace I
49:00started to think about my future what am
49:03I going to do and I remember it was
49:06coming close to the end of the genocide
49:09and I had a dream I had a dream about my
49:13lord
49:13he was as if he was on the cross he
49:16wasn't on the cross he was just sad in
49:19his kidney as I was on the cross he told
49:23me my child when you come out you will
49:26find out everyone your family have been
49:29killed but if you continue to trust me
49:33and to love me those two things he
49:36didn't say if you forgive or you
49:38continue to do he said if you continue
49:41to love me and to trust me and I truly
49:44believe this is what he's telling all of
49:45us he said I will be there for you and I
49:49will do for you more than what your
49:52parents could have been able to do for
49:54you so do not worry even if you were
49:56alone I remember in the dream I told him
49:59if you take care of me who else do I
50:02need you are God you can do things and
50:05when I woke up I said what I said yes to
50:08that I could have asked him not to let
50:11them go and I convinced myself it was
50:15just a dream but the genocide ended we
50:20actually stayed in that bathroom three
50:22months from March April until July the
50:28very first night I came out I realized
50:31it was not just a dream our Lord have
50:35told me the truth the very first night I
50:38was in the refugee camp
50:39I found out everyone I left behind was
50:42killed my mom my dad my two brothers my
50:47grandma my grandpa my neighbours my
50:50schoolmates my best friends everyone was
50:52killed our homes were destroyed
50:55everything not even a picture to remind
50:59you that I had parents before three
51:02months before I
51:04thing has in bond I remember crying for
51:07like five minutes I didn't want to think
51:09about prayer because it made me feel too
51:12good
51:13it was almost unreal compared to what I
51:15was going through and I cried for five
51:18minutes I felt like God he's watching me
51:20just went crazy and after that I felt
51:23like an giant hand was holding me strong
51:26in my sister Marc in my chest and
51:28something was reminding me hey remember
51:32me in a bathroom you loved ones their
51:36lives is over here but not in heaven by
51:41your journey is still here your life is
51:45not over yet
51:46and you don't know how long it's going
51:48to be he might be one more day one hour
51:52one year 10 20 30 40 50 whatever that is
51:57only God knows and what was in my power
52:01I feel like God was telling me is how I
52:04choose to use my life the moment then
52:08now not tomorrow because I don't know
52:10what dude it belongs to me and I
52:12remember it became such a reality I woke
52:15up from my tears and I said wait you're
52:18right I don't even know if I'm going to
52:19live by tomorrow what will I want to do
52:23if I knew that my life can be over and I
52:27know God is real and there is a heaven I
52:29felt like God was speaking again to me
52:31you can either choose to use your life
52:34to love or to hate to be kind or to be
52:37mean my future's love whatever you need
52:41I am with you I literally woke up from
52:45ideas I started way around the refugee
52:47camp to find somebody to care for it was
52:51not easy to love somebody but all I felt
52:54was gone and loved somebody give
52:56yourself do something good and I will go
53:00around we didn't have a clothes to
53:02change didn't have food we only ate
53:05crackers and powder milk and mix with
53:07bad water what to give to people not
53:10medicine
53:11I felt like Jesus was saying look at
53:14that kid who has a wound
53:17just ask them how they feel do it with
53:20love if you do you have done your part
53:24look at that lady who just rose or her
53:28children and mom and dad and husband who
53:30lost her mind she doesn't know what's
53:33going on and there was someone like that
53:34who literally just talking lost her mind
53:37doesn't even know what happened because
53:39of the trouble I feel like Jesus was
53:42saying go sit beside her just listen to
53:46her not because she makes sense just so
53:50that she can feel somebody is there for
53:52her if you have done you have loved
53:55somebody you have done your part I did
53:59like that every day every night I will
54:01pick up my rosary how I say to God look
54:05to the sky because we slept outside and
54:08I will tell him if you take me today I
54:11have tried my best to love and to tell
54:15you the truth every day when I wake up
54:17it's a surprise even if we take it for
54:20granted like we have a long life but
54:22every morning is a gift and all I have
54:26to do again and again when I all the
54:28life I have had and I continue you know
54:30God willing I wake up and say how can I
54:34serve how can I help how can I love
54:37somebody how can I lose my life today
54:39and we all of us we have different
54:42capacities many of you our husbands and
54:45as our boyfriends brothers and no bosses
54:49and taking care of people I think our
54:52God want us to do is how can I love my
54:55wife my children my employees how can I
54:58care for people I meet and that is what
55:01is asked of all of us I was privileged
55:04and I came to this country in 2006 and I
55:08published my first book left to tell and
55:10I had to resign my job in United Nations
55:13which gave me a chance finder to come to
55:16speak to you to be speaking to people
55:18around the world and my greatest joy is
55:22that I'm in a position now to tell you
55:24that God loves you to share faith to
55:28share the power of the rosary
55:31my lady tells us to say everyday to
55:34speak to you about the Seven Soros
55:35rosary I pray our lady gave us a niqab a
55:38hoe and she said pray this rosary every
55:41day I've seen many miracles of this
55:44seven zerls rosary and one of them I
55:47actually have seen many times people
55:49have been trying to conceive I have seen
55:51how a lady have given them babies just
55:54by them starting to say this seven zerls
55:56rosary and have seven Hail Marys and
55:58seven sorrow sorrows I have seen people
56:01who have been addicted because our lady
56:05promised us you meditate on my sorrow I
56:08will hit you
56:09I have seen people healing from
56:11sicknesses cancer through the Seven
56:14Swords rosary when you think about our
56:16ladies tears when you think our Lord in
56:19his passion he Hill is yours it is such
56:23a gift of what time and lastly I want to
56:27end now you know any time I speak to a
56:32group I know I'm speaking to a group but
56:36the truth is I'm speaking to people
56:39individually we all have our own lives
56:43we all have our own obstacles our own
56:47problems our own suffering and before I
56:51end I just want to say from my heart to
56:55yours please whatever you might be going
56:58through
56:59please remember hold on to God hold on
57:03to Jesus there is always hope with him
57:07hold on to prayer hold on to our lady
57:11somebody gave me a sweet joke about our
57:14lady and jesus and her Lord and this is
57:17really what I have written books about
57:19our lady I love her love and her
57:21motherly love and again you listen to
57:24her you speak to her through her rosary
57:26you will feel that somebody said how one
57:29day our Lord was working in heaven and
57:31he's so many people coming suddenly in
57:34heavy into heaven and he went to Peter
57:37who have the key to the gate of heaven
57:38and asked him Peter are you checking
57:41people well
57:42how come they are unusual number in
57:45heaven and Peter said my lord I'm
57:48checking them well but your mother
57:50opened the back door
57:52I don't thank you I don't it's all true
58:00I don't think our lady will open the
58:02back door get us daily and all the
58:05scenes but this is all I have found
58:07through her when you love her when you
58:10listen to her she will teach you how to
58:13pray for priests and tell you how much
58:16we need them we receive our sacraments
58:20to priests sometimes we content ourself
58:23or judging them but it's not our job our
58:26job is to pray for them and to love them
58:28and to be there for them and she will
58:31teach you how to meditate on a whole
58:33Bible by just saying the rosary every
58:36day to meditate on his passion on her
58:40tears so she can be there for us when
58:43you love her she would teach you how to
58:45do compassion every month at least I go
58:48there every two weeks because she makes
58:50me realize how much our sins can work
58:53against us she would teach you how to be
58:55humble and love that's how our lady will
58:59take us to heaven through the back door
59:01and I encourage you to love her we have
59:04such a mother I when you love Lourdes
59:07and you love magic over here you know
59:09fati marki be ho don't even you know
59:12many times as human beings we go like
59:14wow when she came look at miracle but
59:17now I have learned to say what did she
59:19say what does she wanted me to do
59:21because she comes with a message she
59:24comes to Khalid over whether loopy to
59:26say am I not here to not worry am I not
59:31your mother just to remember that but
59:34she comes to Lourdes and say the Rosary
59:36repent change your heart she comes to
59:40Fatima and say I'm the queen of the most
59:42whole rosary pray the rosary every day
59:45for peace in your heart and your family
59:49in your country he comes to tell us in
59:52the key be ho love one another
59:55pray the Seven Swords rosary every day
59:57and lastly I doesn't read my book have
1:00:03gone to the prison and I met people
1:00:04somebody who killed my family and I
1:00:06really offered him forgiveness it wasn't
1:00:09hard
1:00:09Ottawa's heart was to work through my
1:00:12forgiveness in my heart to understand
1:00:14what it means he was a man like many of
1:00:17you here who used to have a good family
1:00:19when I saw him in a prison how beaten he
1:00:22was It was as if my lord was saying you
1:00:25see what I told you they don't know they
1:00:27do and we don't know what we do to not
1:00:30just him when he was seen and I offered
1:00:33him forgiveness I remember he covered
1:00:35his face all I want to say is if I can
1:00:39forgive anyone can forgive dare to go
1:00:44there there's so much freedom so much
1:00:47love thank you so much for having me may
1:00:50God bless you thank you yes thank you so
1:00:53much thank you pray for me and I will
1:00:56pray for your things
1:00:58[Music]

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This page contains the full transcript of Immaculée Ilibagiza at Man Up Philly 2020 by ManUp Philly, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 9,802 words across 1,269 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

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