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If You Want More You Have to Move Like It — Transcript

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0:00What types of questions are we
0:01collectively not asking that we should
0:04be asking?
0:04>> Preschoolers ask 300 questions a day.
0:07There are millions of Google searches
0:10per minute. Everybody is actually very
0:12curious. Questioning is how we stay
0:14awake to things. It's how we challenge
0:16power and hierarchy and systems. All of
0:19the brilliant people that have ever
0:21changed the world for the better. They
0:23ask questions. This week, I'm joined by
0:25the journalist and podcaster who
0:26inspires us to question everything,
0:29Danielle Ro. Danielle has built her
0:31entire career by betting on herself,
0:33asking the right questions, and creating
0:35her own lane from scratch. She breaks
0:37down exactly how curiosity, asking the
0:40right questions, and shooting your shot
0:41are the keys to getting exactly what you
0:44want.
0:47Danielle, welcome to She's So Lucky.
0:49First of all, I'm so excited to be here.
0:51I'm a huge fan and listener, so it's
0:54kind of surreal for me to be on the set
0:56with you. Thank you.
0:57>> I have actually wanted to have you on
0:58the show for so long. It was just a
1:00matter of us being in the same place at
1:01the same time. So,
1:03>> I feel like this episode was meant to
1:04be.
1:05>> You and I share a lot of sensibilities.
1:08So, I'm excited to get into the
1:09conversation so we could like go back
1:11and forth a little bit.
1:12>> I know. But that was a note that I had
1:14to have for myself as I was getting
1:15ready for this was like, Les, you can't
1:17let her interview you because I watch
1:19you. I watch when people interview you
1:21as well and you do that.
1:24>> That's hilarious. I do.
1:25>> I I usually am more comfortable asking
1:27the questions and answering, but I'm
1:29actually practicing being a good
1:31interviewee. Y
1:33>> So, I have some things prepared. No,
1:35good.
1:36>> You're ready? Your notes?
1:37>> I'm ready. Let's do it.
1:39>> So, what we've been talking about on the
1:40show all month is this idea of how to
1:42get what you want. And so far this
1:45month, I've explored that in a few
1:47different areas. I did like a general
1:49solo episode talking about the attitude
1:51and belief of how to get what you want.
1:54Last week we talked about how to get
1:55what you want from more of a spiritual
1:57perspective.
1:58>> Cool.
1:58>> But what I really admire about you is I
2:01think you are such a good example of
2:02somebody who has really created her own
2:04lane and found ways to thrive that are
2:07so unique and fitting to you.
2:09>> Thank you. I think it takes one to know
2:11one, but thank you for that.
2:13>> Thank you for seeing it.
2:14>> Yeah. And I I think that there's so much
2:16that our community can really learn from
2:18you about that.
2:19>> Thank you.
2:20>> First, before we get into that,
2:21>> yeah,
2:22>> I want to bring it back to a question
2:23that I used to ask on the show that I
2:25haven't asked for a while, but I
2:26actually really want to ask you, which
2:28is, can you tell me about a time that
2:30you recently felt lucky?
2:34>> So, yes. And can I also give you a story
2:37that I've been wanting to tell you since
2:39your rebrand?
2:40>> Yes.
2:40>> Okay. So, I feel lucky when I am with my
2:46parents.
2:48I think that I hit the lottery and
2:51there's no work that goes into that.
2:53It's a lucky sperm club and and lucky
2:56egg club. Um, my parents are totally
2:59imperfect. It's not like it was all
3:02amazing. They gave me such a good
3:04foundation and allowed me to explore the
3:09imperfections
3:10and be upset and go to therapy and bring
3:14things back to them.
3:15>> I I feel lucky when I'm with them.
3:17>> That's really beautiful. I feel very
3:19similarly about having my parents who I
3:22love, who I have a really good
3:23relationship with, who are imperfect
3:26>> and I'm grateful for them both in a lot
3:28of different ways. When I in particular
3:31think about my mom and the example that
3:33she has set for me as a woman, it's
3:35something that like I get really
3:36emotional about because I think a lot of
3:39girls and women have had experiences
3:41where their mom could potentially kind
3:43of be their first bully or kind of be
3:45their their first hater or their biggest
3:47hater
3:48>> and my heart breaks for those people.
3:50>> Don't you hear stories like that all the
3:52time?
3:52>> Yeah. Also, I'm curious. I won't
3:55interview you, but I am curious when you
3:57say example what you mean because I can
3:59share that my mom and I have almost
4:01opposite personalities. Um really
4:05>> so like I'm kind of more demure than she
4:07is.
4:08>> She is a bulldog.
4:10>> Like I'll never forget one time I was
4:12working in Chicago in a newsroom doing a
4:14morning show
4:15>> and they moved the desks around and the
4:18executive producer of the show and I
4:20really did not get along and he gave me
4:22I was one of the hosts of the show. He
4:24gave me the worst desk and he gave an
4:25intern a better death than me.
4:27>> And I was fuming like I could not let it
4:29go. And the guy I was dating at the time
4:32called me and was like, "You need to
4:34channel your mother. Would Diana get the
4:36bad desk?" I was like, "My mom doesn't
4:39even show up to her office and she has
4:41the corner office. She works from home."
4:44Like, you're right. I say that all to
4:46say that the example of going after what
4:49you want was actually set. I just go
4:52about it in a different way than she
4:53does. Do you feel that?
4:54>> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My mom and I are
4:57also opposites in the sense of I'm very
4:59introverted. I am very reserved. If I
5:01could have made it through life not
5:03speaking, I would, but unfortunately
5:06that hasn't worked out. So
5:07>> that's crazy that this is your
5:09profession.
5:09>> I know it makes no sense. But my mom is
5:11the most extroverted person. She makes
5:14just rised up best friends everywhere.
5:16She always says there's no such thing as
5:18strangers. It's friends you haven't met
5:19yet. And I'm like, "No, ma'am. Those are
5:21strangers. I don't want to be friends
5:23with everybody." But she can't live in
5:25New York. It's dangerous here.
5:27>> I know. Because she will just make
5:28friends with everybody. Something that I
5:30appreciate from her example was that I
5:34have never in my 30 something years of
5:37life. Yeah. Ever heard her
5:40>> say anything bad about another woman to
5:42make herself feel better or put down
5:43another woman to make herself feel
5:45better? She is so confident and self
5:47assured in who she is and has always
5:49been from a very young age. She had me
5:52very young and it's never had anything
5:54to do with putting down anybody else and
5:55that has been the best example.
5:58>> So my mom is the same way and I actually
6:02always say she's the really the only
6:04person I know that is like Samantha from
6:06Sex in the City in that like she always
6:08wants hot people around her. It doesn't
6:10make her feel less, it makes her feel
6:12better. Like with all my mom's friends,
6:14she'll be like, "That doesn't look good
6:16on you, K." Like, she wants them to be
6:17their best selves, you know?
6:19>> I think that probably has a lot to do
6:21with us being for the girls also.
6:23>> Yeah. Well, in creating spaces where we
6:25can have conversations with other women
6:27and openly hype them up.
6:29>> I will say what's been interesting for
6:31me is I grew up in a house with my
6:34brother and my dad were like dominant
6:36forces. I would say I grew up in a boy
6:38house. When I went to college, I felt
6:41really anxious and nervous to rush a
6:43sorority. I didn't feel comfortable
6:44around a large group of women. I always
6:47had good friendships one-on-one, but not
6:49like in big groups. And I could have
6:51said like, "If you throw me in a
6:52fraternity house, I'm good. I could talk
6:54to 20 men. I'm comfortable. A sorority,
6:57I didn't know how to act or what to
6:59say." College actually like changed that
7:01whole dynamic for me, which was cool.
7:03>> In what way? I was so against being in a
7:06sorority because if you know me, it's
7:08not me. I am not cheering. I'm not doing
7:12certain activities that you're making me
7:13do. I'm not dressing up for a party like
7:15as a team.
7:17>> But my mom said to me, "You have to find
7:20a I went to Madison, Wisconsin. It's
7:22like 35,000 people." And she was like,
7:24"You have to find a way to make it
7:25smaller. Even if you don't like sorities
7:27or Greek life, do it for a year or two
7:29and make it a smaller world." and
7:32meeting those people helped me really
7:34understand the power of girlhood in
7:36large groups. It was very cool. There's
7:38a level of depth in genuine conversation
7:43and connections with women that you just
7:45can't really get anywhere else. And
7:47that's not to say anything, you know,
7:48bad about men. People can have
7:50friendships and all sorts of things with
7:51men. That's fine. But I feel like there
7:53is just a level of depth with women that
7:56is so important to maintain and protect.
7:59Well, it's like a lived experience that
8:01you understand. You know, when we talk,
8:03even though I don't see you every day,
8:06because we're both doing podcasts in a
8:08very similar way, there's so much that's
8:11understood that doesn't have to be
8:13spoken.
8:13>> Yes.
8:14>> And it feels like validation.
8:15>> Exactly.
8:16>> And like I think being a woman, talking
8:18to another woman just feels like
8:20validation.
8:21>> Exactly. It's like there's just things
8:23that we get.
8:24>> Yeah.
8:24>> Mhm.
8:25>> Okay. Can I tell you my lucky story?
8:27>> Yes. I want it. So I had a very sort of
8:29fraught relationship with luck my whole
8:32life because I do believe in something
8:37and I feel like when you achieve
8:39anything there's a humility that comes
8:42along with believing in luck and there's
8:44this interview with Obama that David
8:46Letterman did where they talk about luck
8:48and Obama has so much humility and I
8:50always love that and it never quite sat
8:53well with me that our whole lives are
8:56just up to ance. I understood luck in a
8:59different way when I read a book called
9:00The Third Door by Alex Banayan. And he
9:04was a USC student, quit school after his
9:06freshman year, which killed his
9:08immigrant parents, and he went on to go
9:11interview the most successful people in
9:12the world, and wrote a book about it.
9:14So, he interviewed Maya Angelou and
9:16Jessica Alba and Lady Gaga and Warren
9:18Buffett. and he interviewed this guy,
9:21Sheilu, and he grew up in a very rural
9:24town outside of Shanghai, China, and it
9:27was so poor they had like deformities
9:30because of malnutrition.
9:32At 27, he was making the most money he
9:34had ever made, which was $7 a week. Fast
9:37forward 20 years, he is the president of
9:39online services at Microsoft. and she is
9:43telling Alex his story and Alex is in
9:45disbelief and at the end is like how
9:48much of your life do you think was luck
9:51or chance and she said the best thing
9:54about luck I have ever heard which is
9:55luck is like a bus there will always be
9:58another bus you can hop on but you have
10:00to be at the bus station meaning like
10:02you have to be prepared you have to be
10:04doing the work otherwise you'll never
10:05jump on again another bus will come if
10:08you miss it but you got to be at the bus
10:10station
10:10>> for sure putting yourself in the
10:12position to to receive it or to hop on.
10:14>> Yes.
10:15>> Yeah.
10:15>> Yeah.
10:16>> I literally wrote a Substack with a
10:19similar sentiment. I'll put it in the
10:20show notes. I was talking more so about
10:22increasing your odds for luck and this
10:24whole idea of like dice. Like when we
10:27were rebranding the show, my designer
10:28and I were taking inspiration from a lot
10:30of things that signified luck. And dice
10:32was one of those things where
10:35the more you roll the dice, the more
10:37likely you are to get the outcome of the
10:39numbers you want. But you got to roll.
10:40You can't roll once and then get
10:42discouraged if you don't get the numbers
10:43you want. You got to keep rolling. And
10:45the more you roll, the more likely you
10:46are to get the numbers you want due to
10:48probability.
10:49>> And I think so much of that is kind of
10:51related to being at the bus stop of like
10:53where are you putting yourself? Are you
10:54putting in the reps? What it what is it
10:56that you're doing to make it so that
10:58luck can find you or increase your
11:00surface area for luck? What you're
11:03saying is actually so deep because
11:05there's so many um statistics about
11:08women who play poker and how their luck
11:11in their lives increase because they're
11:12willing to bet on themselves and take
11:14risks in a different way. My dad taught
11:16me how to play at a young age and like
11:18it's something we do together. And I
11:21learned so much about life just from
11:23listening to him play. We actually just
11:26um we're in Panama. We go on a trip
11:27every year together. And I was at a
11:30casino and he he plays by the book. So
11:32like all by statistics and he was like
11:35the only way to win is when you play by
11:37statistics. And then those moments where
11:40you could increase your luck, you press
11:42up.
11:43>> And it's such a good metaphor for life.
11:46Being really calculated about when it's
11:48time to push it, I think is very
11:49important because if we're not, that's
11:51when we can burn ourselves out. That's
11:53when we get discouraged. That's when we
11:55come up against just the hard parts,
11:57which the hard parts happen anyway, but
12:00being as calculated as possible about
12:02how we manage.
12:03>> Does yours come from intuition, would
12:04you say?
12:05>> I feel like almost everything I do at
12:07this point comes from intuition.
12:09>> That's so cool.
12:09>> It feels like What about you?
12:12>> Same. I'm not a numbers person. I don't
12:14know that I understood it as intuition
12:16growing up, but now I do.
12:17>> Yeah. How does your intuition sound when
12:20it's speaking to you?
12:22So mine actually shows up as curiosity.
12:25And I notice that that's actually how it
12:28shows up for a lot of people. They just
12:30don't recognize it. And so it's almost a
12:32like a you know how Oprah talks about
12:34whispers and people will be like, "No
12:36one's whispering to me." If you haven't
12:39heard the whisper, it doesn't have to be
12:41a voice. It can be this feeling of
12:43curiosity like I wonder what it would
12:45feel like to be in that room. I wonder
12:47what it would be like to start a
12:49podcast. It's like the the hm what does
12:51that feel like? What would that be? I
12:52think that is intuition.
12:54>> Yeah. And following that curiosity.
12:56>> Yeah.
12:57>> How do you bridge the gap between like
12:59hearing the whisper and then actually
13:01doing something about it?
13:04>> I am an executor. I am the eldest
13:06daughter, a firstborn from Chicago and
13:10I'm Jewish. So I'm neurotic. I actually
13:13think that so much creativity is wasted
13:17because people don't take the next step
13:19to execute. If it's really bubbling in
13:21me, I'm an executor.
13:23>> Yeah, you are too.
13:25>> I I am. But I feel like I had to
13:28train that muscle. I wasn't when I was
13:31younger at all. And I had to really
13:33learn how to believe in myself enough to
13:36execute things. And that was really a
13:38lot of what my late teens, early 20s
13:40look like. And then once something
13:42clicked in my brain of, oh, I have the
13:44power to make things happen, then it was
13:46like all bets were off. Your ability to
13:50want to learn something, to plug in and
13:52then execute is something that truly
13:55inspires me. And I don't use that word
13:57lightly. I think people throw it around.
13:59I actually there's not a lot of people
14:01who inspire me.
14:03>> That's such a compliment.
14:05>> Yeah.
14:05>> Thank you.
14:05>> For instance, you with you've actually
14:07taught me a lot about money.
14:09>> Ooh. And I went to an accountant
14:11recently based on one of your videos.
14:13>> Really?
14:13>> Yes.
14:14>> Wait, I love that because I was doing
14:16fine, but I was like, Les is so right.
14:18Why have I not gone to an accountant to
14:21like deep dive
14:22>> and you do the deep dive? Like you when
14:24you wanted to learn how to work out, you
14:25became a freaking trainer.
14:26>> Yeah.
14:27>> I think there's different versions. I'm
14:29actually like a better generalist and
14:31I'm trying to do what you're doing and
14:34go deep.
14:35>> Yeah. What are some of the things you
14:37want to go deep in? account. Money.
14:40>> Money for sure. I actually have worked
14:42for free for like all the time and
14:44that's something I'm ending. It's
14:46because I've always loved what I do and
14:48I want to get better and valuing myself
14:50has has been a thing and that's
14:52associated with money. The biggest goal
14:54this year actually also somewhat
14:56inspired by you to be honest.
14:59>> Oh my god.
14:59>> Not to like make you feel weird. I've
15:02seen you
15:04really like step into your power as a
15:08thought leader and as a personality
15:11and I've been a questioner my whole life
15:14and I really feel like I have an
15:16expertise in connection and
15:17relationships and questioning and so I
15:21did this thing last year that I haven't
15:23talked about or executed on yet but I
15:25read 40 books listened to like 30
15:28different TED talks a bunch of different
15:31podcasts class and wrote down all of the
15:33things about I basically like took
15:35myself to grad school in a way and I'm
15:37going to start trying to become more of
15:39a thought leader in that space and try
15:41to step into my own power a little bit
15:43more.
15:44>> That's so good. Okay, wait. There's more
15:46here that I want to unpack.
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17:13So, let's talk about hair. A little
17:15while back, I was having my wash day and
17:18I noticed a bit more shedding than I'm
17:21comfortable with. Not a huge deal, but
17:23enough to make me pause and reassess my
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18:37balanced less. That's nutr.com.
18:42Promo code balanced less. First, I loved
18:46that you phrased that as taking yourself
18:49to grad school and that you actually
18:51documented what you learned so that you
18:53could refer back to it and apply it
18:55because I think that's where a lot of us
18:56get stuck and I'm not the best at this
18:58either.
18:59I want to get better at making myself
19:02this year when I finish a non-fiction
19:04book or something that I've been making
19:07book reports.
19:08>> That's really smart. And that's how you
19:10remember stuff.
19:10>> Yeah, it is. It is. So, I'm curious
19:13maybe what some of the top learnings you
19:16took away from your year of self-study
19:19were.
19:20>> I'm so excited. I could really get into
19:21it. I'll start with a question to you is
19:24do because you're you are an observer
19:26and a questioner. Do you ever get people
19:29saying like that was personal like in
19:31per not in workspaces or like that's
19:33kind of nosy or that's a lot or that was
19:35deep? I don't but I think it's because
19:39I've learned how to
19:42sneak it in there. I get a lot of like,
19:44oh, I've never said that to anybody
19:46before, or I've never told anyone this,
19:47which I think is a version of that where
19:50people start getting more personal than
19:51maybe they think they're going to.
19:53>> So, that's phenomenal. Most people
19:57either are really good on the surface or
19:59go for the jugular. The most common
20:02thing that I hear from people is, "Okay,
20:05well, how do I get more curious or how
20:06do I ask questions?" And what I've
20:09learned is that children, preschoolers
20:12ask 300 questions a day. There are
20:15millions of Google searches per minute.
20:19Everybody is actually very curious. And
20:22systems in our society, education,
20:25corporate, when not done well, kind of
20:28beat it out of us. And so it's really
20:30about returning to our original
20:32curiosity. And I've gotten people
20:35telling me like that was a big question
20:37or that you you ask a lot of questions.
20:40And my new response to them based on my
20:42learnings is like questioning is
20:45actually a responsibility. I find that
20:48questioning is how we stay awake to
20:51things. It's how we challenge power and
20:52hierarchy and systems and it's how we
20:56claim authorship over our lives. And
20:59when I think about all of the brilliant
21:02people that have ever changed the world
21:04for the better, they ask questions.
21:07Martin Luther King questioned unjust
21:10laws and segregation. Gloria Steinham
21:12questioned control over women's bodies.
21:15Serena Williams, I think she questioned
21:17grace and anger and rage and authority.
21:21And Rihanna questioned who gets to be
21:25beautiful.
21:26And Taylor Swift questioned like who
21:28gets to own art? Muhammad Ysef who's
21:32lesser known, but he asked everybody
21:34like why can't poor people get loans if
21:37they pay them back on time. And micro
21:40credit started and millions of people
21:42started businesses. Sarah Blakeley,
21:44Nelson Mandela, Oprah, James Cameron,
21:47like Reed Hastings, all the people's
21:49names that you know. It literally
21:52started with a question. Why can't
21:54something be different? why can't it be?
21:57And so, um, I'm just like really
21:59emboldened to not be called nosy and to
22:04ask deeper questions and to teach people
22:06how, um, because it's literally just a
22:08practice. Like, everybody has it. I'm
22:1151. I'm never going to be in the WNBA.
22:13Like, even if that was my dream, not
22:15going to happen. There are no like
22:18barriers to entry to ask questions.
22:20>> Mhm. Okay, that spawns a few more
22:22questions for me
22:25naturally. First, I'm curious from your
22:27perspective if you've always been a
22:29questioner or if it has been your
22:31journalism training that has kind of
22:34brought that out of you as more of the
22:36personal question for you.
22:38>> Second question is more general.
22:41>> What types of questions are we
22:43collectively not asking that we should
22:45be asking?
22:47>> I have always been curious. I grew up in
22:50a very conversational family and even my
22:53grandparents were professors and and
22:55school teachers and so like they were
22:57always asking me questions and it gave
23:00me confidence to give answers and ask
23:03myself questions. So I think I was lucky
23:06in the sense that systems in my life
23:09emboldened that. And that's not to say
23:12if systems in your life didn't that you
23:15can't cultivate it. It is very possible
23:17and you would be surprised how quickly
23:18you can do it. I do think that being a
23:21journalist and then being a podcaster
23:24has really honed asking questions like I
23:27know how to ask certain things. To your
23:29point about like easing in the why
23:32questions are what get people emotional.
23:35The why is the jugular. If you ask how,
23:38that's how you have a more pingpong
23:39conversation like, "Huh, how did you get
23:42to that perspective? How did you come to
23:44that? How did you feel in high school?
23:47Versus like, oh, why did you do that?
23:51Why, you know, like that just feels more
23:53intense. The number one thing I ask
23:56myself before I enter any interview is,
23:58what can this person teach me that
24:00nobody else can? And it helps me craft
24:03where I'm headed. I actually think most
24:07people are not asking any questions. And
24:10that is the problem. It's so much easier
24:12to not question.
24:14It is really hard, sometimes painful. Uh
24:18it awakens something in you. It
24:21cultivates consciousness. Once you start
24:23asking yourself questions, you start
24:25questioning other people. You start
24:27questioning the world. And you realize
24:30that just because something is not a
24:33problem for you doesn't mean it's not a
24:35problem. You start wanting to do
24:38something about it. I don't want to
24:40paint the world's issues with a a big
24:42brush saying questions are the answer,
24:45but I actually think they're a big
24:46fundamental
24:48solve that is really overlooked.
24:52That makes a lot of sense, especially if
24:54more people felt comfortable asking
24:57questions to understand instead of
25:00asking questions to try to
25:02>> get a certain answer or belittle a
25:04certain answer. Yes. But to listen for
25:06understanding would be really helpful.
25:09Outrage does really well online. And so
25:12there's a lot of podcasters,
25:14um, I have to say most of them are men,
25:17but there's a lot of podcasters who I
25:19think ask questions to be controversial
25:22or to stoke a flame. And that's actually
25:25like not helpful necessar like asking
25:28questions about pseudocience unless
25:29you're questioning the validity of it is
25:32not ethical or helpful in my mind. And
25:34so much of it is to elicit an emotional
25:37response to just generate engagement,
25:41all of the things.
25:42>> Yes.
25:42>> And I think that's why I want people,
25:48consumers, listeners, participants to be
25:51really savvy
25:53>> and discerning about what they give
25:55their attention and energy to
25:57>> a thousand%. And also the fun part of it
26:00is that I think wisdom comes from
26:02wonder. And so to follow the wonder and
26:06the whisper instead of the outrage and
26:09all that stuff is like is what makes um
26:12questioning like really beautiful and
26:14add to your life rather than detract.
26:16>> Mhm. Definitely. Speaking of questions,
26:19I would love to talk a bit more about
26:21some of the questions that you ask
26:23yourself. I think that you have been
26:24somebody who has done a very great job
26:26of creating this really amazing lane for
26:29yourself.
26:30>> Thank you. particularly from a work
26:32perspective. And I would love for our
26:34audience to hear more of your story
26:37about how you got to where you were and
26:38the different career transitions that
26:40you've made to create this really
26:42beautiful platform and lanes for
26:44yourself that you occupy as well as what
26:46questions you asked yourself along the
26:48way to get there. I was in college and
26:52was a political science communications
26:54major and called my parents one day and
26:56I was like, I'm going to move to LA and
26:58I'm going to work on the internet. And
27:00my dad almost had a heart attack. He was
27:03like, the internet? What the does
27:06that mean? Uh like he had only known
27:08YouTube as like that person who was like
27:10screaming free Britney.
27:11>> That's kind of what it was. It was early
27:13that you had that desire.
27:15>> It that is true. I love etmology and
27:18that word desire is so beautiful because
27:21the Latin root means from the stars and
27:24so it actually means it's not like about
27:26greed. It is that you feel something
27:29that is yours that is not within reach
27:31yet. It's like so beautiful and I think
27:33it gets a bad sort of connotation for
27:36women in particular. I was going to go
27:39into journalism. I had worked at local
27:41news stations and I I didn't want to
27:44move to the middle of nowhere and I saw
27:47the internet becoming something and I
27:49didn't know what it was. So I booked a
27:51one-way ticket. I had $8,000 in my bank
27:54account which could sound like a lot but
27:56honestly after rent and parking tickets
27:59in Los Angeles it goes very quickly and
28:02oatmeal packets to eat. So, moved into
28:06this garage in Santa Monica and it was
28:10uh free, which is why I moved there. And
28:12it was a true garage, not like a
28:14Brentwood back house. I ate oatmeal for
28:17every meal cuz it didn't have like a
28:19kitchen. It had a microwave. And I'd
28:22never been happier. I wanted to be in LA
28:24so badly. I wanted to be by the palm
28:26trees. I felt like it was my place. And
28:29I started sending out tapes that I had
28:32made in college and no one would reply
28:33to me. I had seen my mom growing up. She
28:36was a CPA and sold mortgages and she
28:38would send people gifts sometimes like
28:40thank you after they close their their
28:42mortgage. And I thought, what if I send
28:44people stuff? So I took some of that
28:47$8,000 that I didn't have to budget on
28:50cookies and bamboo plants and I did. And
28:53people started responding and they would
28:55be like, "Hi Danielle, we don't have a
28:57job for you, but thank you for the
28:58cookies." And uh this was like not
29:01before Anthrax, so it wasn't weird to
29:03receive cookies in the mail. So uh I
29:06would then email them and say like, "No
29:08problem. If you ever have anything, let
29:09me know." And one day, like 3 months
29:13later, a woman called me out of the blue
29:15at 2 p.m. and said, "Our host is sick.
29:17Can you be on the red carpet in 3
29:19hours?" And I said, "Absolutely." and I
29:21got dressed and I thought I looked so
29:23good and looking back I looked so bad.
29:27Like I came from Chicago. I had no
29:29fashion sense and I was on the red
29:31carpet with these people who had full
29:33glams and had long legs and blonde hair
29:37and I was like so out like so out of my
29:40element and didn't notice. Like that
29:43naivee is so beneficial when you're
29:45young. That lack of self-awareness. Like
29:48I I thought Juliana Rancic was my peer.
29:51>> You could not tell me otherwise.
29:53>> You know that Drake line, when your
29:54idols become your rivals?
29:56>> Juliana was my rival and you could not
29:58tell me otherwise. So I did that red
30:02carpet and then sent tapes out again
30:05like eight months later and finally got
30:07a gig. I started working on the internet
30:10and ended up working in entertainment
30:12news. Entertainment Tonight Online. It
30:14was not for me. I
30:17realized I didn't care about why someone
30:20was wearing something. I didn't want to
30:21report on their life, but I still liked
30:24news and I liked entertainment. So, I
30:26was very lost. I was working like 16
30:29hours a day and quit cold turkey and was
30:32very broke and you understand financial
30:35anxiety. It is brutal. And so, it kind
30:38of like threw me into a mini depression
30:39for the first time I would say.
30:41>> And when was this when you reached that
30:43point?
30:44>> 20
30:4615 or 16. Okay. I never thought I would
30:49get another job. I I didn't have a
30:51resume and nobody is on is on on
30:53indeed.com saying like, "We want a TV
30:55host." And so, uh, a friend of mine
30:59said, "I can see you're really upset. I
31:02have a surprise for you and like be in
31:04hair and makeup the next morning. I'm
31:06going to pick you up." And I was like,
31:08"Okay." It's 700 a.m. So, he takes me to
31:11Nate Niles, which is a diner in Beverly
31:13Hills. And I walk in and Larry King is
31:15sitting at this booth
31:17>> and it was like an LA miracle honestly.
31:19And I go and I sit down and he asked me
31:22a million questions. I didn't have any
31:23time to ask him questions. And at the
31:26end I was like, Larry, can I come back
31:27tomorrow? I didn't get to ask you
31:29anything. And he said, "Well, don't you
31:31have a job?" I was like, "No." He goes,
31:35"Well, you are welcome here anytime."
31:36And it was always Larry with his
31:38childhood friends. And I think maybe the
31:41youngest person at the table was 65 and
31:43then it was me. And I started having
31:46breakfast with Larry and he he made me
31:49believe it was possible. I saw somebody
31:52make a life and an interesting,
31:55fruitful, financially successful life
31:57based on their curiosity. And I just was
32:00like, "Oh, I have that. I can do that."
32:03And he did it in a cerebral way. And I
32:05hadn't seen that cuz I was like in
32:06entertainment news, which no offense,
32:08it's like the gutter. Sorry to my
32:10friends that are in it. You're not the
32:11gutter. For me, it was. I got a job in
32:15Chicago as a morning show host and I was
32:18in love for the first time in LA and it
32:20was very hard to take the job. And a
32:23woman that I really respect who's a book
32:25agent, but I just like knew her
32:27personally called me and said, "If he's
32:29the right guy, he'll be the right guy in
32:31two years. Take this job."
32:33And I'm so glad she told me because he
32:36was not the right guy. And that job
32:39changed the course of my life. I learned
32:41how to be live on TV two hours a day
32:44with no prompters when everything goes
32:46wrong when you are out of your element
32:48and you have no script and you have to
32:50be quick on your feet.
32:52And I found out that my male co-host was
32:54making a third more than me. And when I
32:58found that out, um, I it my it was like
33:01kind of in in line with my contract
33:02being up. And I went to my boss and I
33:04was like, I need to be paid properly.
33:07I've been, and this is my co-host and I
33:09talk about this, it's no shade to him. I
33:12was doing more work than him. I had more
33:13Instagram followers. Like, there was no
33:16reason for it. He had didn't have more
33:17experience than me
33:20and they didn't give me a proper raise.
33:22And so, I decided to quit. And we had a
33:25third co-host who was a black woman. Her
33:27name is Felicia. And I went to her and I
33:29said, "Do with this information what you
33:30will. Here's what I was making. here's
33:33what Jordan's making and I left. Felicia
33:36is one of my best friends to this day.
33:39And we've never talked about that. She
33:42ended up staying. She's now moved on in
33:44her career, but it was during the Me Too
33:47movement. And I was pissed. I was riled
33:51up. And I looked at my mom at the time
33:55and she said, "Every time you've bet on
33:57yourself, it's worked out. You're
33:59unhappy. You're angry.
34:01go do it again. You did it once, you can
34:03do it again. So, I moved back to LA and
34:07I started working at IMDb and like the
34:10NBC station and uh I was frustrated. I
34:16still hadn't found my place even though
34:17I enjoyed the people I was working with
34:19and I was learning and getting better
34:21and I just felt like I was constantly
34:23trying to fit a square peg into a round
34:25hole. And I'd always wanted to work at
34:28E. There was this audition. And it was
34:30right before CO. And so I did it. I got
34:32to the final round. They flew me to New
34:34York. I was like, "This is the moment."
34:36And it wasn't the moment. I didn't get
34:39the job. And I fell on this bed crying.
34:42And the guy I was dating at the time in
34:44New York said, "You can cry. Cry for a
34:48day. Cry for two days and then go hire
34:50yourself." And I was like, "You don't
34:52get it. I want to be on the Today Show.
34:54I want to be on Good Morning America.
34:56You can't hire yourself."
34:58And he was like, "Who do you love on the
35:00Today's Show?" And I said the names.
35:01"Who do you love on Good Morning
35:03America?" I shared their names. And he
35:04goes, "Could they get fired tomorrow?"
35:07And I was like, "Yeah." And he was like,
35:10"So just because you admire them doesn't
35:12mean they don't have a job." I was like,
35:14"You're right." And he was like, "You
35:16see yourself differently than other
35:18people are perceiving you. Go make them
35:20see you the way you want."
35:23He changed my life because I I never
35:26really had anybody who thought that way
35:27or believed in me in like in that. Um I
35:31never even considered going to create my
35:33own thing and that's when I initially
35:35started the podcast and then eventually
35:37launched a card game and fast forward
35:40the funniest things that ever happened
35:41were because of that I ended up getting
35:43a job at E and the woman hired me
35:47because she loved my podcast. I really
35:49wanted to work at Hello Sunshine and I
35:51pitched them. Like I'm a big believer uh
35:55that if you want something, you have to
35:56go get it. And there's always a way.
35:59There is a way if it is for you. There
36:01is a way. And you can't just like sit
36:04around and hope that it comes to you. I
36:05mean, some people like, you know,
36:07Channing Tatum was like found on walking
36:09on the street. Like that's like who does
36:11that happen to? I don't know. Not me.
36:13>> The girls know I've been telling them to
36:15shoot their shot. If that's not a
36:16testimony for shooting your shot, I
36:17don't know what is. Oh, shoot your shot
36:20in relationships. Shoot your shot with
36:22friends. Shoot your shot at work. It has
36:26never I have never regretted it. It has
36:28only paid off. Like this slight
36:30embarrassment you feel from being
36:32rejected, which I have been rejected a
36:34ton
36:35both by men, by work, by all of it. I
36:39don't even remember that. I remember the
36:42wins.
36:43>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's be honest,
36:46nothing is better than clothes that look
36:48luxe but don't come with a crazy price
36:51tag. Which is why I have loved shopping
36:53at Quint for years now. Their pieces
36:56feel so effortless but also help me feel
36:59put together. Like you could wear them
37:00to brunch or a meeting and still feel
37:03like your best self. Like all winter
37:05long, I live in my Quint cashmere
37:07sweaters. They're soft, they're
37:09flattering, and they're the perfect cozy
37:11thing to put on when you want to be
37:13warm, but you still want to look put
37:14together. Quint is all about elevated
37:17essentials like Mongolian cashmere, 100%
37:20silk, Italian wool coats, and denim that
37:24actually fits like it's supposed to.
37:26They aren't trendy throwaways. They're
37:28true wardrobe staples that are made to
37:30last and that you will want to keep. And
37:32the quality really shows. The stitching,
37:34the tailoring, the fabrics, they all
37:37hold up. It's the kind of stuff that
37:39makes your closet feel like a capsule
37:41wardrobe without being too restrictive.
37:43Plus, everything is made in ethical,
37:45trusted factories. Plus, they still
37:47price it all way below what you would
37:49pay at traditional luxury brands. So
37:51many of my everyday items are from
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37:55I'm wearing, the bags that I carry, even
37:58my bedding. And I love how everything
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38:22If you know me, you know I'm all about
38:24the small wins. Those little decisions
38:27that add up but make you feel so much
38:29better. And one of the easiest small
38:31wins that I've added to my daily routine
38:33is RW Kudson juice. Whether it's a part
38:36of my slow morning routine or an
38:38afternoon pickme up, these juices just
38:41fit. They're 100% juice, have no added
38:44sugar, and they make the most basic
38:46moment feel like a wellness ritual. I've
38:48been loving the RW Kudson organic beet
38:50juice in the mornings. Beets are known
38:53for supporting circulation and heart
38:54health, and it's just super refreshing
38:56after I do my morning workout. Or if I'm
38:58in the mood for something brighter, I'll
39:00grab the organic just pineapple. It's
39:03naturally sweet. It's refreshing. Makes
39:05me feel like I'm having a tropical
39:07moment, even in the middle of winter.
39:09And pineapple is often associated with
39:11digestive health and immune support,
39:14which I think we all need this time of
39:15year. Plus, it just tastes like joy in a
39:17glass. And of course, there's RW Kudson
39:20organic just cranberry juice, which is
39:23my go-to when I want to feel like I'm
39:25taking care of myself without
39:26overthinking it. Cranberries are known
39:29for supporting the urinary tract, heart,
39:31and gut health. And here's the thing, RW
39:34Kudson crushes only the best ingredients
39:37so that you can crush everything you do.
39:39You don't have to overhaul your life to
39:41feel good. It can start with what's in
39:43your glass. So, go ahead and crush 100%
39:45of your day, morning, afternoon,
39:48evening, and all of the in between
39:50moments with 100% juice and no added
39:52sugar. Pick up a bottle of RW Kudson at
39:55your local grocery store. I'm beginning
39:57to have a reframe around this because
39:59I'm usually not a shoot your shot girl.
40:01I'm usually like a let things come to me
40:04girl.
40:04>> Really?
40:05>> Yeah. And over the past few months, I've
40:07had the realization that's not working
40:10for me fast enough and that I need to
40:13put myself out there more to get more of
40:15the things that I want. And so, it's
40:17like a practice in real time. But what's
40:19helped me have a mindset shift around it
40:21is if I ask for what I want, it could be
40:24yes or it could be no. If I don't ask,
40:27it's absolutely a no.
40:28>> Yes.
40:29>> So, which is it going to be? A
40:31possibility of a yes or not a yes at
40:33all? And that's what's been helping me
40:35get over myself.
40:37>> It's brilliant because to me, no means
40:40next option. Like you if you if I if you
40:42give me the no faster, I know to move on
40:44to my next shot
40:46>> as opposed to just wondering in my mind
40:48and ruminating at night like I wonder if
40:49I did that, would they be interested?
40:52Would that happen? Um, and I also think
40:55there's an element of planting seeds
40:57here. I've pitched people to come on my
40:59podcast and it's a no and three years
41:01later it's a yes. Yep. And so, and you
41:04never know who you meet along the way.
41:05Like, I always say that trying is
41:07winning.
41:09You can't solve for winning. There is no
41:11way to have that sort of certainty, but
41:14if you're trying, you will have momentum
41:16and things will happen. And that's like
41:18literally the basis of luck and getting
41:19on the bus.
41:20>> Exactly. Yeah. Increasing that the odds.
41:23>> What made you decide you were going to
41:25shoot your shot?
41:27I
41:29was there a moment? No. Oh, I mean, I
41:32just got tired of my own and I'm
41:34tired of not having things that I feel
41:36like I deserve. I feel like I deserve
41:38more. And maybe also towards the end of
41:40the year seeing the Tina Turner memes
41:43where the reporter was like, "Do you
41:45think you deserve all this?" And she
41:46goes, "I think I deserve more." And I
41:48was like, "You know what? Me too, Tina."
41:49>> Yeah.
41:50>> So, I'm going to start asking for it.
41:52And so, it's only been, you know, a few
41:54weeks. It's still early in the year, so
41:56I can't say that I've like scored any of
41:58these amazing things, but it's a form of
42:00trying. and putting in the reps.
42:03>> I'm really curious to see how you feel
42:06in December
42:08>> of 2026 cuz I think uh it takes time.
42:12>> Yeah, it does. It needs to compound and
42:14like you said, planting seeds sometimes
42:16it takes time for things to come to
42:18fruition.
42:19>> Yeah,
42:20>> absolutely.
42:20>> On the podcast front, because I love
42:22your podcast.
42:23>> Thank you.
42:24>> And you also rebranded your podcast and
42:26I would love to talk a little bit more
42:28about that because I remember when it
42:29was pretty smart.
42:30>> Yeah. and it has evolved to question
42:32everything which matches your card game
42:33and I know that you also have
42:35aspirations to really turn Question
42:37Everything into a broader brand.
42:40>> I do.
42:41>> So, I'd love to talk more about what
42:43made you want to make that switch and
42:45then also what your ideal future state
42:47of Question Everything is.
42:49>> Thank you for asking that. Nobody's ever
42:51asked me about the rebrand.
42:52>> Really?
42:53>> Yeah. And I listened to your episode on
42:55off the record about your rebrand
42:57>> and I loved how intentional you were
43:00about every like you really thought
43:02through you asked yourself a lot of
43:04questions.
43:05>> Mine came actually kind of sporadically.
43:07I loved the name pretty smart. I always
43:09had uh the original name came from this
43:12book I read called Beauty Sick and Dr.
43:15Renee Angel the psychologist that wrote
43:17it has this wild statistic at the top.
43:20She asked her class every year at
43:22Northwestern, "Would you rather be hit
43:23by a car or considered fat?" And 54% of
43:27women each year would raise their hand
43:28and say like, "How fast is the car
43:30going?" or "Is it a truck or a Prius?"
43:33And when I read that stat, my stomach
43:36sunk because if you asked me that
43:39question in high school, I think I
43:40probably would have said the same thing.
43:42And I had since healed a lot of my food
43:44stuff. And I thought that is so true.
43:48And also like no matter what a woman is
43:52in America, she has to be pretty. And
43:55the prettiest women I know have bumps
43:57and bruises and scars. So the name came
44:00from putting wanting to put a new spin
44:02on pretty like pretty bold, pretty
44:04witty, pretty strong, pretty smart. And
44:06then I did that for I think three and a
44:09half years. And I interviewed the woman
44:12who started SoulCycle and she was she's
44:15great with product and she was touching
44:17my card game and she was like, "Someone
44:18sent this to me as a gift. I have this
44:20on my coffee table. I love it." And I
44:22was really touched by that. And she
44:24goes, "What is pretty smart? Like
44:26everything needs to be question
44:28everything. I want to wear a shirt that
44:30says question everything. I want to It's
44:32like a religion. It's a movement. Well,
44:34I don't want to wear anything that says
44:35pretty smart and it feels gendered." And
44:38I was so annoyed because I knew she was
44:40right.
44:42>> That's always how it happens when it
44:44hits a nerve and you're like, "Damn it."
44:46>> And it's so expensive to rebrand.
44:48>> It is
44:48>> to do it well.
44:49>> Yeah.
44:50>> I invested in Pretty Smart and all my
44:53old footage said Pretty Smart.
44:55>> I just knew she was right. And I also
44:57think that culture had shifted
45:00>> and I really hate uh when I look at
45:03brands and I'm like that is so 2014.
45:07Like you can tell when they came up with
45:08it.
45:09>> Yes.
45:10>> Mhm.
45:10>> And I felt like question everything
45:12could stand the test of time and it
45:14really is my ethos in life. Susie Welch
45:16has this question that she asked people
45:17whose life looks good to you and then
45:20why and why not? Like take the parts you
45:22like and take the parts you don't. And I
45:23listed all these people whose life
45:25looked good and why. And I realized that
45:28everyone I really admire is somebody
45:31who's trying to change culture in their
45:33own way. And so I think question
45:35everything really delivers on that idea
45:38more so than pretty smart at this moment
45:40in time.
45:41>> I consider you like the queen of
45:42questions. It's hard to ask good
45:45questions and to be a thoughtful active
45:49participant in conversation is really
45:52hard.
45:52>> Yeah. I know something that I have
45:55struggled with and I've kind of alluded
45:57to this a little bit on the podcast
45:59about my relationships with religion
46:01being a little bit touchy and a lot of
46:03that is because in the religious spaces
46:05that I grew up in questions were not
46:07encouraged. Yes,
46:08>> it was actually like a bad thing. It was
46:09seen as a sign of disbelief and was like
46:12a means of punishment
46:14>> if you had any sort of question
46:16>> even just to understand. And so I think
46:19a lot of people have experienced that
46:20and have a hard relationship with
46:23questions and with different things
46:25because it's something that they could
46:26be kind of punished for or seen as a bad
46:28thing. And getting more people to
46:30embrace questioning is so important now
46:33more than ever.
46:34>> You're so brilliant for bringing that up
46:36that I actually think that's a huge part
46:39of questioning that nobody thinks of
46:41because we actually are a very religious
46:43country. Millennials are the least
46:46religious in six decades. But we are
46:48still a religious country. And I agree
46:52with you. That is what is taught. I have
46:54always felt like questioning
46:58actually means you have faith.
47:00>> You are in pursuit of the truth and
47:02answers. And it's because you care. It
47:04is because you have faith. And I know
47:06that's contradictory to some some
47:10faiths, but that's my personal belief.
47:13>> Yeah. I love that reframe though. I love
47:15that reframe. And I think coming back to
47:18this idea of how to get what you want,
47:22we have to ask questions to get what we
47:24want. We have to ask questions of
47:26ourselves and of the world around us to
47:28even understand where we are, where
47:30we're going, where our feet are.
47:32>> Yeah.
47:33>> But you have to
47:34>> it's essential.
47:35>> I think like the biggest barrier is
47:37where do you start,
47:39>> right? Like if you not if you're not
47:40like a a typical questioner, I always
47:44say that um the best place to start is
47:47with people who are paid to talk to you.
47:50So, uh I know that sounds funny, but
47:52truly like with um servers at
47:55restaurants or baristas or if you're
47:57like in pop line at Pop Bellies, they
47:59have to ask you questions. And I think
48:02um part of the nervousness with
48:04questions is it's actually like an
48:06invitation. And so you could be turned
48:08down. someone could turn down your
48:10invitation and talking to people who are
48:13paid to talk to you takes that out of
48:15the equation and then as you practice it
48:18more you become more confident. It is
48:20literally a muscle the way like your
48:22glutes or your thighs would be building
48:23in the gym.
48:24>> It's true. So for everybody who's scared
48:27of conversation asking questions go to
48:29Trader Joe's and while
48:31>> while you're checking out
48:32>> Yes. ask some questions cuz they'll
48:34answer.
48:34>> And it can be super surface like um like
48:38do you like sweet or salty? I think one
48:41really good one when you meet somebody
48:42new is um cuz people introduce
48:45themselves and they love talking about
48:48first of all themselves. There's a ton
48:50of studies that have shown that when
48:53people talk about themselves it triggers
48:55the same part of your brain as sugar and
48:57sex. And so you are literally giving
49:00them a mental orgasm. like they love
49:03talking about themselves. So, don't feel
49:05like you're probing. And then um I
49:08always ask the origin of somebody's
49:09name. Like I'm like, "What? Less? That's
49:12such a that is really a unique name.
49:14Like I've met Leslie's. I haven't met a
49:16lot of Les's. Where does your name come
49:18from?"
49:19>> Well, do you want me to tell you for
49:20real? So, my name is Landre. That's my
49:23full first name.
49:24>> See, I didn't know that.
49:25>> Mhm. I don't put it out there a lot
49:27because it's very unique and I try to
49:29generally keep people out of my
49:30business. So, like people don't need to
49:31know how it's spelled or any of that,
49:33>> but
49:33>> look for her social security number.
49:35>> Yeah.
49:36>> Um, but where that came from is it was
49:39made up. So, when my mom was pregnant
49:41with me, I was supposed to be a boy.
49:42They thought that I was a boy the whole
49:43time. But while she was pregnant, she
49:45had a dream that she was pushing a
49:47stroller that had a baby girl in it and
49:49the baby girl's name was Lstandre. And
49:51she thought that that sounded really
49:52interesting. And so she like woke up,
49:53wrote the name down, went back to sleep,
49:55and didn't think much of it cuz they had
49:56a boy name picked out for me, which they
49:58ended up later giving to my brother. And
50:00when I was born and I was not a boy,
50:02then that's the name that they gave me.
50:06>> See, that is such a cool story cuz first
50:08of all, now I have so many follow-ups.
50:10Like,
50:11>> is your mom a person who is spiritual?
50:15Does she have like premonitions in her
50:17dreams or this was just a particular
50:19moment? I think it was a particular
50:20moment, but she is pretty intuitive. So
50:23maybe she does and she just doesn't tell
50:24me. I don't know.
50:25>> And do you think that you lived into
50:27your name in terms of like the
50:29uniqueness of it? Did you always feel
50:31different in a good way because of it?
50:32>> I think so. I mean, what's interesting
50:34is even going by less was something that
50:36started when I was an adult on the
50:38internet. Again, just more of like the
50:40privacy. I don't know. The earlier days
50:41of the internet, I was like, I'm scared.
50:43>> Do you know that I also have I did that.
50:46My Yeah. My robe is my middle name. M
50:49interesting. See, yeah, we got to like,
50:51you know, keep it keep it cute, keep it
50:53tight. Yeah.
50:53>> Um,
50:55>> but growing up, I always went by my
50:57first name. Teachers at school, my
50:59friends. I mean, I have some family
51:01nicknames, but for the most part,
51:03everybody called me by my full name. And
51:05people who are like really close to me
51:07still do. Less is more of almost like a
51:10stage name, like an internet thing.
51:12>> Less is more.
51:13>> It It is. Not that I tried to get you in
51:16any way, but just look at the
51:18conversation we just had
51:19>> because of that one question. Yeah.
51:21>> I feel so much closer to you. I know
51:23about your mom.
51:24>> I know your real name.
51:26>> It's a quick little spark and it changes
51:28the whole temperature of the room.
51:29>> Exactly. Yeah. And it's not something
51:31that's so invasive where someone's going
51:33to be like, "Oh, that's, you know,
51:35>> you just asked me about my third
51:37divorce." I don't know. I don't know why
51:38that was that was the invasive thing I
51:40just thought of, but it is something
51:42that people could easily talk about.
51:45>> Yeah. And you're right, like you can ask
51:46about divorce right away.
51:48>> You have might want to warm people up
51:50before you go there.
51:52>> Exactly.
51:52>> Especially if it's fresh.
51:54>> Yes.
51:54>> I would love to do a little rapid fire
51:56with you. um
51:58>> love this
51:59>> that are around just some of like the
52:01questions that we ask ourselves or the
52:03different ways that we can kind of
52:04reflect within ourselves because I think
52:06you're such a reflective person and I'm
52:08I'm just excited to hear kind of how you
52:10answer these. So this is a mix of
52:11questions and statements but I just want
52:13you to respond instinctively here.
52:16>> A desire that you admitted to yourself
52:18before anyone else.
52:23It feels vulnerable to say, but I want
52:26it all. I want a family and a big
52:29career. And when I say big career, I
52:31mean really big career. It was
52:34hard to admit and still is because I
52:36think we've heard a lot of women and
52:38women I admire say like you can't have
52:40it all or you can have it all not at the
52:42same time. Maybe that's true. I'm going
52:45to find out. The systems in the world
52:47have changed. And I'm starting to see
52:49women who are like five and 10 years
52:50older than us. Figure it out. I don't
52:54know them personally. I don't know if
52:56their inner lives are a mess, but TBD.
52:59>> No. I love that though. Have it all.
53:01Bigger. I'm always going to push people
53:02for bigger.
53:03>> Yeah.
53:04>> A version of success you outgrew.
53:06>> Working for free.
53:08>> You know, I like that.
53:09>> Yes.
53:10>> Yes.
53:11>> The smartest risk you ever took. It was
53:13a bet on the desire, that whisper, the
53:16curiosity, the intuition. And every risk
53:19I have ever taken has been the best.
53:23>> They've all paid off. Even the ones
53:25where I lost.
53:25>> Mhm. They all compound.
53:27>> That quote, you either win or you learn.
53:30>> Y
53:30>> is 100% true. I actually took a big L
53:32yesterday
53:33>> and I was licking my wounds. It takes a
53:35lot to really get me.
53:37>> I was in bed for three hours like
53:39replaying all of it. And I learned such
53:44a good lesson.
53:46So is what it is.
53:48>> Yeah, it's worth it.
53:49>> Yeah, it's worth it.
53:51>> Something you stopped pretending to
53:52want.
53:54>> I've never pretended to want anything.
53:58>> I
54:00What do people usually say to that?
54:03>> I've never asked anybody that. I can
54:04tell you what I think.
54:05>> Yeah, tell me.
54:06>> Accepting partnership from average
54:09people. accepting partnership rooted in
54:13mediocrity.
54:16>> Wow, that's big and deep. And it's
54:19complicated. Like it's not
54:20>> Mhm.
54:21>> It's not for rapid fire. Yeah,
54:22>> it's not rapid. Maybe some fire.
54:25>> Um,
54:27where in your life you feel most
54:28authentic?
54:30>> Being really honest with myself about
54:32that allowed me to be fully authentic
54:35because I could just live into what I
54:37really am and so my insides match my
54:39outsides. Yeah, I love that.
54:41>> Yeah.
54:42>> And then the last one for those of us
54:44who are seeking to get what we want.
54:46>> Yes.
54:47>> What question should we ask ourselves in
54:49that pursuit that you think we avoid but
54:51actually need to ask?
54:53>> I think the question is picture yourself
54:56at your 85th birthday. Close your eyes.
55:00Think about where you are, who's around
55:02you. What would make you absolutely cry
55:06of sadness that you did not do?
55:09And the reason I think this is important
55:12especially for women in their 30s and
55:1440s. Have you ever seen Saturday Night
55:17Fever? It's a movie from the 70s
55:20>> way back. Is that John Travolta?
55:21>> Yes.
55:21>> Yeah.
55:22>> All he wants to do is dance. And he
55:24works at this store and on the weekends
55:25he dances. And he goes into the store
55:27one day and his boss who's probably
55:29twice his age um is like, "You could
55:31probably save a little bit more and and
55:34save for the future." And John Travolta
55:36goes, "Fuck the future.
55:38And the guy goes, "No, you can't
55:42the future. The future you. And if
55:45you try, it will catch up to you. The
55:48future will you." And I remember
55:50seeing that movie as a kid and having
55:52this deep understanding that you cannot
55:55the future. The future you.
55:58And so the reason that question, I
56:00think, is so important is we don't often
56:02work backwards. And in your 30s and 40s
56:06are like your 20s. You're still figuring
56:08stuff out.
56:08>> Yeah.
56:09>> You're you you're asking a lot of
56:11questions. In your 30s and 40s, you are
56:13building for the 80s and 90s. And so if
56:17you are not working towards your
56:19financial goals and saving, they're not
56:21just going to come most likely. Maybe
56:24you are pretty lucky. Uh if you're not
56:26like I want a family. I'm 35. I'm like I
56:30don't know that I did a great job at
56:31this one. like I got to figure out how
56:33to put energy and time into dating so
56:36that I can try to get lucky and make
56:39that happen. I think that question is
56:42like so clarifying.
56:44>> So so good. Yeah. Such a good like mic
56:46drop.
56:47>> Did you have an initial instinct? My
56:50initial instinct and I I talked about
56:52this a little bit in the solo episode at
56:54the beginning of the series. What do you
56:56want that's not influenced by other
56:57people? Yeah.
56:58>> That's not what everyone else wants for
57:01you. That's not what you see people on
57:02the internet doing. That's not what your
57:04family says, what your church says. If
57:06none of that was a factor, like what
57:08would you actually want?
57:10>> Yeah.
57:11>> And I don't think enough of us really
57:13explore that.
57:14>> How do you think we figure that out and
57:16like get rid of the noise?
57:19>> Self-discovery, reflection,
57:22stripping it away, asking questions, no
57:24pun intended, but asking ourselves
57:27questions. And when we get those pings,
57:29those gut instincts, actually following
57:32it and not just doing what we think
57:34we're supposed to do. I think some of it
57:36for me has been
57:39like like not failing, but sort of
57:42trying things on that don't fit. Like I
57:45remember when Instagram first kind of
57:47got popular and I would like take photos
57:50in the mirror of my outfits and post it
57:53because like that's what people were
57:54doing
57:55>> and I always felt so uncomfortable. Like
57:58it never
57:59people that I grew up with were probably
58:01making fun of me. Like it just never
58:03felt right to me. But I think I had to
58:05try that on to get to the place where I
58:08was like how can I make this work for
58:10me?
58:10>> Yeah.
58:12So maybe like trying on stuff that
58:13doesn't
58:14>> a willingness to try.
58:15>> Yeah, I guess. Yeah, trying is winning.
58:18>> Yeah, I think that's like a good
58:19takeaway. Like a last little takeaway
58:21for the audience.
58:22>> Yeah, that trying is winning.
58:25>> Yeah, there's nothing else to do.
58:27>> No. Yeah. Try take the information, try
58:31in a different direction. If it doesn't
58:32work,
58:34>> Yeah.
58:35>> Are you ever scared to try?
58:38Not anymore. I used to be. But I feel
58:40like once you get one or two good big
58:43tries and put yourself out there, then
58:45it just becomes less scary.
58:48>> What would you say was the biggest try?
58:50Like what was the first or second one
58:51that was like
58:53>> just being out on the internet? Putting
58:54putting myself out there on the internet
58:56in the early when no one was looking.
58:58That's the thing. We get so scared to
59:00put ourselves out there, but when you
59:01first get started, nobody's checking for
59:02you. It's actually so freeing. When you
59:04first create a podcast, nobody's
59:06listening to it, and that's when it's
59:08the most fun.
59:09>> Yeah.
59:10>> So, when you think of it that way, it
59:12actually becomes less scary. But leading
59:13up to it, you think it's scarier than it
59:16is.
59:17>> I never thought about that.
59:18>> Yeah. The most fun that I had podcasting
59:20was my first couple of episodes when no
59:22one listened and there were no
59:23expectations and it sounded horrible,
59:25but I could just say and do whatever I
59:27wanted.
59:28>> Do you feel like when you're
59:29interviewing people sometimes they give
59:31the same answers? Like do all of them
59:32sort of run into each other?
59:35>> No, actually I feel like everybody kind
59:37of has their own interpretation of of
59:40things and I feel like we do get a good
59:42variety of of answers. What about you?
59:46Do you find
59:48>> I've interviewed a lot of highly
59:49successful people in different
59:51industries and one thing I've noticed is
59:55most of them and I'm not interviewing a
59:57ton of tech people but most of them are
59:59like not like their IQ is not so far
1:00:04away from everyone else's. Their vision
1:00:08is like not unbelievable. There are
1:00:10outliers, right? But
1:00:13>> I find that they just believe that they
1:00:15can.
1:00:16>> Yeah.
1:00:17>> And that's been a a big takeaway for me
1:00:19in podcasting is like I think 90% of
1:00:22going after what you want and getting it
1:00:24is just believing you can.
1:00:26>> Truly. Yeah. And then continuing to
1:00:28persist even in those moments where
1:00:31something doesn't work out the way you
1:00:32think it would.
1:00:33>> The resilience Olympics.
1:00:35>> Yes. Danielle, thank you so much for
1:00:38being here.
1:00:39>> Thank you, Les. I loved this
1:00:40conversation.
1:00:41>> I loved it more. I'm so grateful to be
1:00:43on your pod. Thank you for having me.
1:00:45>> I'm so grateful that you are here.
1:00:46Please let the Clovers, the girlies know
1:00:48where they can find you.
1:00:49>> It's so weird cuz I'm a Clover.
1:00:53>> The fellow Clover.
1:00:54>> Yeah. So, fellow Clovers, I'm at
1:00:57Danielle Ro on everything. And uh I
1:01:01can't wait for you to come on my
1:01:03podcast.
1:01:03>> Yes.
1:01:04>> We're going to do a swap.
1:01:05>> I'm so excited.
1:01:06>> Absolutely.
1:01:07>> Thank you.
1:01:07>> Thank you.

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