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ICE agents kill two men in a week in Maine and Texas | BBC Americast — Transcript

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0:00We need to talk about ICE, Immigration,
0:01Customs, and Enforcement once again
0:04because that organization is once again
0:06in the headlines. Two more shootings,
0:09two more fatal shootings, both of people
0:12who they say were not the intended
0:14targets. One victim in Maine, the state
0:17of Maine, and the other in Houston,
0:19Texas. So, questions once again about
0:22the actions of ICE, but also the
0:24politics of this organization. What
0:27needs to happen to it in the longer-term
0:30future. Anthony and Sarah, let's start
0:32with what we know factually about in
0:34these two cases, what actually happened.
0:36>> Yeah, so the first one happened in
0:37Maine. Um and in these circumstances, uh
0:41a 26-year-old man, Juan Sebastian
0:43Guerrero, was shot in the city of
0:46Biddeford in Maine.
0:48We don't have as much detail about that
0:50as we did about the um cases that you'll
0:53remember from Minneapolis because there
0:54aren't as many um there's not as many
0:56cell phone footage and and and pictures
0:58to show us, but we have seen
1:01surveillance footage of what happened
1:03immediately after the shooting, and we
1:05see um Mr. Guerrero being pulled out of
1:08his car um by ICE officers, but it looks
1:11as though they immediately um drag him
1:14down to the ground and handcuff him
1:16saying that they were fearing for public
1:18safety rather than seeing whether he was
1:21all right because the other thing that
1:22we've actually um got images of are um
1:25bullet uh holes through his window. So,
1:27he's obviously been shot several times
1:29by the agent who then drags him out of
1:31the car down onto the ground um and he
1:33later died um from his wounds. We know a
1:35little bit about the man himself. Um
1:38Guerrero was um Colombian, but he was
1:40actually authorized to work in the
1:42United States. He'd been given a social
1:43security number. Uh and so, you know, he
1:46was not actually the target that the ICE
1:49agents were looking for. It was a
1:50mistaken identity that has resulted in
1:52his death. And unsurprisingly, there
1:55have been some vigils and protests in
1:57Maine where he lived. Um this is outside
2:00an ICE building in Scarborough where you
2:02can hear one of the protest organizers.
2:04>> We knew that was going to happen, but it
2:06doesn't change the fact that it breaks
2:08our hearts. That we are here today in
2:10solidarity with the Guerrero family to
2:12say you are not alone.
2:15But we're also here to say it must be
2:17the last person in Maine that ICE kills.
2:21There is no excuse from any elected
2:23official, from the attorney general, to
2:25the district attorneys, to the state
2:27police, to local law enforcement. These
2:29people are killers and they must leave
2:31our state now.
2:34>> Yeah, and this is um not just happening
2:36in in Maine. In uh Washington,
2:38Representative Adriano Espaillat, the
2:40chair of the Congressional Hispanic
2:42Caucus, denounced the killing um at this
2:44press conference.
2:45>> So here we are again, a brown man, a
2:47Latino
2:49killed.
2:51And I must say that
2:55I don't see the outrage.
2:58I really don't see the outrage
3:02that I've seen in other cases. So,
3:05whether you're an immigrant, whether you
3:07have an immigrant status that's
3:09irregular,
3:11documented, undocumented, a life is a
3:13life.
3:14Justice should be decided in our
3:18courtrooms.
3:20Not in the asphalt, in the pavement
3:25of any city across this country.
3:28This is a failure of leadership
3:32to allow ICE to continue to go on a
3:35rampage, a killing spree,
3:39is a failure of leadership.
3:42>> And that shows you some of the
3:43controversy that has been stirred up by
3:45this, but I mean he's not wrong when he
3:46says there hasn't been the same level of
3:48outrage that there was when two white
3:51American citizens were killed in
3:52Minneapolis earlier this year. So, there
3:54have been some protests around the
3:56country, but it hasn't reached the scale
3:57of what we saw earlier in the year.
4:00That may be because of the nationality
4:02and the ethnicity of the people
4:03involved. It may be because there just
4:05isn't as much footage of what happened,
4:06and so it's it's less clear exactly what
4:09went on.
4:09>> I think that may be a a big part of it.
4:12There also was no footage of the
4:13shooting in Houston. The victim there,
4:16the target was Lorenzo Salgado Araujo,
4:19who was a 52-year-old Mexican national.
4:21He was working as a builder, and he was
4:22stopped while driving to work with three
4:26other people in a white van and killed
4:28by ICE agents shortly afterwards. Now,
4:30the Department of Homeland Security has
4:32said that they stopped that white van
4:34because they saw someone who looked like
4:36an individual they were targeting
4:39operating the van. He said that the
4:41firing, the officer shot in
4:43self-defense, and that Araujo was not
4:45actually the man that ICE was looking
4:47for. We don't have footage of that not
4:50even the footage that we had in Maine,
4:53but the three men in the car with him
4:55did say that they were not endangering
4:57ICE agents. Their lawyer said that he
5:00was not using a vehicle as a weapon or
5:03trying to run over the immigration
5:05officers, and that no one was in front
5:07of the vehicle. If you remember that
5:08shooting in Minneapolis,
5:10the officer was somewhat in front of the
5:12vehicle,
5:14but we don't know. This is he said, she
5:16said, he said, he said. There's multiple
5:17accounts because we don't have that same
5:20kind of
5:21evidence video evidence to be able to
5:24get anything out of that. Here, this is
5:26his son Reinaldo
5:28talking about how he learned of his
5:30father's killing.
5:31>> I learned of my father's passing from a
5:33news report on social media.
5:34Not the hospital, not law enforcement.
5:38Through a collective effort from local
5:39organizations and elected officials, we
5:42got answers. My father's death was
5:44confirmed. I am calling for a full
5:46investigation into the events that
5:47transpired yesterday yesterday, July
5:497th.
5:50He did not deserve to die.
5:53He did not deserve to be reduced to a
5:55headline of Mexican man shot and killed
5:58by ICE. [snorts]
5:59He deserved to quit to live a quiet life
6:02as Lorenzo Salgado Araujo,
6:04a husband, a father, and a job creator
6:07for dozens of men who also wanted the
6:09American dream.
6:10>> That's right.
6:11>> What happened though, my father was
6:12being followed by two unmarked cars. Had
6:15my father seen an emblem of ICE or an
6:18emblem that says anything about law
6:20enforcement agency, my father would have
6:22complied. He would have stopped. He
6:24would have not ran away because he
6:26feared for his life. He drove fast
6:29because he feared that someone would
6:30take his tools. One of his worst fears
6:33is that someone took away his work tools
6:35because that's the tools of his the van
6:37as well because that is how he made his
6:39livelihood. That's how he raised us how
6:41he That's how he fed us for the last 35
6:4340 years of his life.
6:45>> Yeah.
6:45>> So, had my father seen any emblems on
6:48those cars, he would have complied. He
6:50would have stopped. He would have
6:53not reacted the way he did.
6:55Unfortunately, that was not the case.
6:57ICE did not present himself to him in a
7:00orderly manner, in a professional manner
7:02that any law enforcement agency should
7:04have should That's the standard to
7:07identify yourself.
7:08>> So, that was uh Ronaldo Salgado calling
7:11for an investigation. The family has
7:13said that they haven't heard anything
7:14from ICE or the Department of Homeland
7:16Security uh regarding this case. And of
7:19course, he is relaying uh what are the
7:21accounts from the men who were with uh
7:24with uh Araujo in the van prior to him
7:27being shot.
7:28>> Yeah, and the call for an independent
7:30investigation is interesting cuz this
7:31has happened in each one of these cases,
7:33isn't it? That the Department of
7:34Homeland Security investigates
7:36themselves, essentially. And and in each
7:39state where this this happened, the um
7:41local authorities have had very little
7:43confidence of whether how that
7:44investigation is going to proceed. And
7:46normally, when a federal agent is
7:48involved in a fatal shooting like this,
7:50there will be a parallel investigation
7:52from the local authorities. But um ICE
7:54have been denying the state access to
7:57that in every single one of these cases.
7:59So, it doesn't appear that there is any
8:01kind of effective independent um
8:02investigation going on, and little
8:04confidence in some quarters that ICE can
8:06investigate themselves fairly.
8:08>> Uh and it's worth underlining, isn't it?
8:10Neither of these people had a criminal
8:12record. They weren't the intended
8:14targets, as as we were saying. And also,
8:17I mean, the really crucial thing, there
8:18isn't body camera footage, is there? So,
8:21there's no clear footage from the ICE
8:22agents themselves, which which I mean,
8:25again, just
8:27you'd think by now, and particularly
8:29after the killings that there have been,
8:31and there've been other shootings as
8:33well, not just the ones that we
8:34mentioned, the the ones in in uh
8:37Minnesota, but but there've been others
8:39as well, where ICE agents have been
8:41involved in shootings, not all of them
8:42fatally. You'd think by now they'd have
8:44sorted out the body cameras, at the very
8:46least.
8:47>> Right. And one of the other things
8:48that's different here is that the two
8:50protesters, and they were protesters in
8:51Minneapolis, Alex and Brittany Renee
8:53Nicole Good, uh they were not the
8:56targets of ICE. They were not being
8:58swept up in these uh immigration
9:01enforcement actions. They were there
9:02protesting it. They were there trying to
9:05uh provide eyewitness accounts and try
9:07to warn some of the people who were
9:08targeted. Whereas in Maine, and in
9:11Houston, and in some of those other
9:12cases that Justin mentioned, where ICE
9:15agents discharged their weapons, and at
9:17times uh shooting people who were who
9:19were in the vicinity of these
9:22investigations, this that this is a
9:24different sort of thing. Uh and the
9:27response has been different, although I
9:28will add that in Houston, there have
9:30been mass protests already uh calling
9:33for further investigation. And we're
9:34starting to see some of that now in
9:36Maine, as well.
9:37>> And of course it's those investigations
9:39are not going to be helped by the fact
9:40that the officers weren't wearing body
9:41cameras and there has been a lot of
9:43pressure to try and make sure that
9:44agents always do ever since um what
9:46happened in Minnesota. But Tom Homan,
9:49the Border Czar, uh was up in Capitol
9:51Hill yesterday and he was asked by
9:53reporters specifically why the agents
9:55weren't wearing body cameras given that
9:58a huge amount of money had already been
9:59given to the department to pay for new
10:01body cameras and he basically said that
10:03the government shutdown uh from a couple
10:05of months ago had held all of that up
10:07that although the money is there to buy
10:08the body cameras, they've been ordered
10:10now and but essentially was blaming
10:12Democrats for the hold up in um
10:14supplying them which well, we we shall
10:16see how that holds up.
10:17>> Right. And he also explained that pause
10:19that was ordered according to reports uh
10:22in the traffic stops. You got to
10:23remember traffic stops, these seem to be
10:25a lot of the flash points where these
10:27type of incidents because you're pulling
10:29someone over. Uh you have them behind
10:32the wheel of a vehicle which uh in law
10:34enforcement views can be a deadly weapon
10:36and has led to injuries of law
10:38enforcement officers when they get hit
10:40by these cars. So it instantly makes it
10:43a a more tense situation. They were
10:45going to pause this to review it. I mean
10:47this is Homan talking about that pause
10:49and explaining the purpose behind it.
10:51>> You know, I think what they're doing is
10:53taking a pause to make sure
10:55that number one, the ICE officers have
10:57everything they need to stay safe
10:59because vehicle attacks are up 3,400%
11:02and they're going to make sure is is is
11:04the training sufficient? Did anything go
11:05wrong? I'm confident they're going to
11:07get back to their policy of vehicle
11:09stops, but they're doing, you know, what
11:11they believe is a necessary short-term
11:13pause just to look at it and make sure
11:15everything's good. But there's going to
11:16be situations where they need to do
11:18vehicle stops, especially if it's a
11:19criminal alien.
11:20And and before you enter a city,
11:22downtown city, you want to take them
11:24down in in in desolate area where
11:28public is safer. There are so many
11:30different extenuating circumstances that
11:32these officers have to consider on where
11:35to do I stop it or do I wait wait till
11:37he stops or should I
11:39approach him before he gets into the
11:41car? I mean that's a two-ton weapon. The
11:42average weight of vehicle is two tons.
11:45>> So the question then Anthony is whether
11:47that stands now because just as we were
11:50beginning you you you monitor Truth
11:52Social very carefully don't you and
11:55you alerted us all to the fact that
11:57Donald Trump has essentially said no
11:58that's rubbish.
11:59>> Yeah, he did. This is the Truth Social
12:01post. He said the men and women of ICE
12:02are doing a great job one that has to be
12:04done. Crime is way down in America in
12:06many cases the numbers that haven't been
12:08seen in decades. He goes on to talk
12:11about the ICE stop saying that
12:13we cannot give up one of ICE's most
12:16important and effective crime fighting
12:17tools the traffic stop. Once we do we
12:20are playing right into the criminals'
12:21hands. ICE says Democrats don't want
12:23this to be done but it won't happen on
12:26my watch. ICE be judicious fair and
12:28smart and go back and do your very
12:31important job. Keep those crime stat
12:33records coming. Remember you are loved
12:35and respected in America. Although he
12:36didn't call it nice. I thought he was
12:37changing the name of it [laughter] from
12:39ICE to nice. I guess not.
12:41>> That's a that's a whole different public
12:42body in the United Kingdom. I think
12:44there's a couple of really interesting
12:45things in what Tom Homans said there
12:47because he he actually posed a couple of
12:49questions which are material to this. He
12:51said is the training sufficient of ICE
12:53officers? Now he may have been talking
12:54specifically about the manner in which
12:56they they pull over vehicles. But I mean
12:58that's got to be at the nub of this
13:00hasn't it that you have officers who who
13:02essentially don't know how to conduct
13:04these stops properly who are maybe
13:06approaching people without having
13:07identified themselves. That's certainly
13:09what
13:10the victim who was killed in Texas his
13:13son seemed to be suggesting creating
13:15unsafe environments and then feeling as
13:17though they are under threat themselves
13:19when possibly more training might have
13:22taught them to handle it in a different
13:24non-fatal way.
13:25>> Right and you have to remember that the
13:26immigration enforcement activities that
13:28the Trump administration has been
13:29conducting have been rapidly
13:32significantly increased in the past
13:34couple of weeks. They've been conducting
13:36about 2,000
13:39enforcement actions a day nearly
13:41doubling the number of people it takes
13:43into custody compared to the spring. So,
13:46most of those are happening with these
13:48kind of stops whether they're traffic
13:50stops or residence stops or on the
13:52street kind of stops. So, the potential
13:54the number of stops is so much more that
13:56the potential even if you talk about a
13:58small fraction of these turning violent
14:01has increased proportionately.
14:03>> And the other thing Tom Homan was saying
14:04there was look we need to do this when
14:07it's a criminal alien and the
14:09administration's always saying this
14:10aren't they that we're going to be
14:11deporting the worst of the worst that
14:13these are criminals who've got no place
14:14in the country that they're making
14:15America safe again, they're reducing
14:17crime rates by getting these people out
14:19of the country.
14:212,000 arrests a day are not all criminal
14:26aliens. Many, many of them, in fact the
14:28vast majority of them have no criminal
14:30record at all. So, it's always
14:31fascinating I think where they both want
14:33to parade very large numbers and they
14:35want to say these are dangerous
14:37criminals and both things cannot be true
14:39at once.
14:39>> Yeah, and it's really interesting isn't
14:41it that they are doing what they
14:43originally said they were going to do.
14:45They said they're going to be very large
14:47numbers
14:48deported and then during the course of
14:51the election and just afterwards as you
14:52say Sarah they started say well, it'll
14:54be the worst of the worst etc. But
14:56actually in a way
14:58and and in a politically damaging way
15:00for them potentially
15:02that they they seem to be living up to
15:04the first of those things rather than
15:06second if you see what I mean. In other
15:07words, they are going for the whole hog
15:09to to go for really large numbers and
15:12including people who haven't necessarily
15:14done anything criminally wrong or not
15:15done anything criminally wrong recently.
15:18And that is although it is what they
15:19initially promised to do or suggested
15:21they were going to do, it it it it's
15:24still, I guess, quite a shock to people
15:27to actually see it happening, and to see
15:29the the fallout from it, as in these two
15:31cases, and the other cases where people
15:33have been shot.
15:34>> Yes, sir. You remember at the Republican
15:35National Convention, they had signs that
15:38convention delegates were holding up
15:39saying mass deportations now. Uh that
15:42was, as Justin you say, the promise,
15:45although uh maybe that they realized
15:48that was not politically politically
15:51acceptable to a larger swath of the
15:53American public, which is why they
15:55changed their messaging. But pretty
15:56clearly what they are doing, and what
15:58they have the funding to do, the
16:00resource, the reason why uh ICE now has
16:03uh more prisons than the Bureau of
16:05Prisons in the federal government, and
16:07more immigration enforcement officers
16:09than a lot of militaries in a lot of
16:12different countries, is because this is
16:14a much, much bigger operation than just
16:17finding people who have criminal records
16:19and getting them off the streets.
16:21>> And the politics, of course, are crucial
16:23to this, uh and and all important. There
16:25is public support for removing people
16:28who are undocumented in this country,
16:30even if they're not um criminals. Uh
16:33that remains a popular thing, which the
16:34definitely the Trump administration and
16:36Republicans could be running on in the
16:37midterms, and and maintain support.
16:40What's much trickier is when people are
16:42killed, especially when they're people
16:44who were not the target of the operation
16:45in itself, and it looks as though um the
16:48thing is both dangerous and badly
16:51organized. And that's when it gets much,
16:53much trickier. It gets much trickier for
16:55Trump to defend, but it's also
16:57complicated, isn't it, Anthony, for how
16:59the Democrats jump into this, because
17:01there there are dangers politically for
17:03them as well.
17:04>> Right. Uh immigration has been, since
17:07since Donald Trump first started running
17:08for president in 2015, his biggest
17:10issue, and one of the issues that he has
17:12had the most public support on. Uh now,
17:15if you look at recent polling, it does
17:17show that there has been some erosion of
17:19his support, particularly after what
17:21happened in Minneapolis because of the
17:23killings there. And also, I think it's
17:25more than more even more than that, I
17:26think it's a feeling like sometimes this
17:28is being done in a cruel sort of way.
17:30Families separated, people snatched off
17:32the streets. It's one thing to say,
17:34"Yes, we need to get 10 million
17:36undocumented immigrants out of this
17:37country." Another thing when it's your
17:39gardener or your housekeeper, your
17:42nanny, or your neighbor, or the person
17:44you're going to church with, that makes
17:46it a lot more personal. I think that has
17:48affected public opinion to some extent.
17:51But Democrats do have to be careful
17:53because this is an issue where
17:56Republicans typically have a stronger
17:58hand. And if they get over their skis on
18:01this, if they push back too much, it
18:03might play into Donald Trump's campaign
18:05messaging that Democrats want open
18:07borders and mass immigration.
18:08>> Yeah, the phrase "defund ICE" of course,
18:10Justin, is is it becomes, you know,
18:12pretty toxic and when you remember the
18:14arguments over defunding the police.
18:16>> Yeah, and then you go to So, if you go
18:18to Maine, cuz it's interesting, isn't
18:19it? Both of these these places where
18:21these these shootings happened are
18:24states potentially that the Democrats
18:26want to win
18:27in the election. Texas and Maine Senate
18:30seats are absolutely crucial for them
18:34retaking the Senate if they intend to
18:35retake the Senate in both of these
18:38places. So, how do they play? It's
18:39interesting. I've I've just been looking
18:41at Troy Jackson,
18:43um former
18:44um Senate president in Maine who now
18:46wants to take over
18:49uh the place of Graham Plathner, this
18:51guy who has imploded
18:53uh as their candidate for the Senate
18:55seat and to get Susan Collins, the
18:58Republican senator, out. Troy Jackson
19:01now saying on social media that ICE is,
19:04I quote, "This rogue agency that must be
19:06abolished." So, in other words,
19:09on the left of the Democratic Party, and
19:11I think it's fair to say Troy Jackson is
19:13on the left. They may well become the
19:15candidate in Maine. On the left of the
19:18party, there is a sort of all-out push.
19:20Okay, abolish ICE. They're not quite
19:22saying abolish ICE and don't put
19:23anything in its place, are they? But
19:26it's it's still that initial abolish ICE
19:28thing that is potentially
19:30um attractive to people on the
19:32progressive left, but not attractive to
19:34anyone else. That's that's the kind of
19:36tightrope, isn't it, that they're
19:37walking?
19:38>> Right. And and Susan Collins is in a
19:41tricky situation because uh she is
19:45getting pressure from her constituents.
19:47She has been a a critic of some of this
19:50ramped-up enforcement in the past and
19:52had been one of the people calling for a
19:54pause and some sort of consideration of
19:57these traffic stops. And now Donald
19:59Trump is is coming in and doubling down
20:01on this. So, uh there are the protests
20:03that happened in Maine just the other
20:05day. They were protests that started in
20:07a public park and ended at Susan
20:09Collins's campaign headquarters or
20:12Senate headquarters in in Portland,
20:14Maine. And so that this is pulling her
20:16into an area where she probably doesn't
20:19want to be because she then becomes more
20:21and more associated with Donald Trump.
20:23She either has to defend the Trump
20:25administration's policies or criticize
20:28them. But if she criticizes them, people
20:30are going to wonder whether this is just
20:32another example of her being concerned
20:34about something but not taking any kind
20:35of concrete steps to stop it.
20:38>> they're in real trouble potentially,
20:39aren't they, as well with Latino voters.
20:41And we ought to talk a bit just about
20:42that kind of segment of the vote as well
20:45because Donald Trump did incredibly well
20:47with Latino voters in 2024. I mean,
20:50absolutely blew out got
20:52getting on for half of all Latinos who
20:55who voted voted for Trump.
20:58This time round, well, the poll's
20:59already suggesting that that has reduced
21:01and reduced, I think it's fair to say,
21:03actually largely because of the economy
21:05rather than because of any
21:07actions taken by ICE and and by the
21:11administration, because plenty of
21:12Latinos
21:13in fact a majority of Latinos probably
21:16don't want to see illegal immigration,
21:18and if they think that it can be stopped
21:20and stopped in a just and fair way,
21:23we're pretty convinced that the Trump
21:25administration had had got that right.
21:27Are they though still convinced? I mean,
21:29that's the question, isn't it? The
21:31extent to which particularly in Texas,
21:33where they're obviously very important
21:35constituency,
21:37the extent to which they now think,
21:39as you know, you heard that that the son
21:43of the Texas
21:45um victim
21:46uh
21:47and and his words about his father and
21:50his words about the family and his words
21:53about a man who's given employment to
21:56others and all those things, and you
21:58wonder whether for at least some Latino
22:01voters,
22:02who will be crucial in the Senate vote,
22:05that they may be a kind of feeling of
22:08enough is enough.
22:10>> Yeah, and we've seen this play out in
22:11special elections already. There was
22:13that one in the Dallas area uh where
22:15Hispanics swung uh dramatically back to
22:19the Democrat who ended up winning the
22:20seat in a district that Donald Trump had
22:22carried by double digits. We saw it in
22:25New Jersey in some of the uh
22:27gubernatorial districts uh around New
22:29York City that had very high Hispanic
22:32populations that were again Democrat
22:34Democratic candidate did quite well with
22:37that. And I think there is a feeling
22:39among the Hispanic community where even
22:41by ICE's own account, DHS's own account
22:44in this Texas shooting, uh it was a case
22:46of mistaken identity that the person who
22:48was shot, pulled from the car, uh
22:50Araujo, was not the target of this. They
22:53They saw him and he looked like someone
22:55they were looking for. So, what's to
22:57stop ICE from, you know, finding other
22:59Hispanic people and having the same sort
23:01of mistaken identity if they're just
23:03basing it on how they look. There's a
23:05very real concern, I think, and a very
23:07real risk that this community feels
23:10threatened by the stepped-up immigration
23:12enforcement action in addition to, as
23:14you mentioned, Justin, economic issues.
23:17And all of these things, I think, you
23:18know, create an environment where
23:21Donald Trump is not very popular.
23:23>> Yeah, and there's a story in Minnesota
23:26where those incidents happened earlier
23:28this year that ICE agents have been
23:31stopping a number of off-duty police
23:33officers who are
23:35legal US citizens. There's no reason why
23:38they were being stopped at all, but
23:40asked to prove their citizenship, which
23:42if you are a citizen, is very difficult
23:43because you're not carrying papers in
23:45your car. And your simply your driver's
23:47license isn't going to prove your
23:48citizenship.
23:50But every single off-duty police officer
23:53who was stopped by ICE was Latino. None
23:56of them were white. And when you see
23:57stories like that, the idea that there
23:59is some kind of racial profiling going
24:01on, which of course will upset everybody
24:03or many, many people in the United
24:05States. But obviously, Latino
24:06communities exactly the kind of thing
24:08which I This kind of policy was always
24:09going to lead to. And I think it's taken
24:11several months, but we're actually at
24:12the point now where it's becoming very
24:14obvious.
24:14>> And the Supreme Court said that was okay
24:16in a case last year, one of these shadow
24:17docket cases, not a formal one that was
24:19argued and
24:21and then issued a full opinion on, but
24:23it said that traffic stops that were
24:24kind of incidental,
24:26these sorts of things were okay even if
24:28if you have a reasonable by looking at
24:30the person, their Hispanic background
24:32makes you think that they're
24:34they're the person that you're looking
24:35for.
24:36>> Yeah, it'd be really ironic, wouldn't
24:37it, if the Trump administration
24:40sort of re-racializes
24:43the
24:44broader Hispanic Latino community. Cuz
24:48one of the criticisms, we heard it on
24:49the pod, didn't we? We've talked to
24:50people about this in the past. One of
24:52the criticisms of the Democrats'
24:54outreach to Latino voters in the past
24:56has been it's it's been kind of
24:57patronizing and suggested that they're
25:00separate and suggested that they need to
25:02be spoken to in Spanish and etc. etc.
25:05And that they were oppressed in some
25:06way. And actually
25:08the people we've talked to in the past
25:10said no, they're just ordinary Americans
25:11and they quite want to do well
25:13economically and they have the same
25:15rights and aspirations as everyone else
25:17and
25:19that approach to them wasn't working.
25:21Now,
25:23as a result of this, it's possible I
25:25suppose, isn't it? That they do feel
25:26themselves to be oppressed and they do
25:28feel themselves to be all the things
25:30that Democrats used to tell them they
25:32were and that that has a real political
25:33impact.
25:34>> Yeah, and Democrats had always made this
25:36assumption as well that Latino voters
25:38wanted looser border policies and didn't
25:40want to see
25:42immigration crackdowns, didn't want to
25:44see deportations. Whereas of course in
25:45many many instances that wasn't true.
25:47People who were here in the country
25:49legally were not necessarily in favor of
25:52other people flooding into the country
25:53illegally just because they came from
25:55the same country as them or looked
25:56similar but of course I exactly as you
25:58say Justin, you know, you could actually
26:00be producing with these policies a
26:02turnaround in that.
26:04>> We had a question from Robin in London,
26:06also Chris in Leamington Spa, James from
26:09Orkney all emailing to ask whether there
26:11can be any update on investigations into
26:13the killings of Renee Gooden and Alex
26:16Pretty who you mentioned earlier.
26:19Anthony, do we know these things happen
26:21so slowly, don't they? Do we know
26:22anything more about what's actually
26:23going on?
26:25>> They do. We don't have a ton of new
26:27information that's been released
26:28publicly but there are Minnesota
26:30prosecutors who have been looking into
26:32this case and they announced on Monday
26:34that they've gotten some key evidence in
26:36their investigations into those
26:38shootings that have been turned over by
26:41the federal government. Federal
26:43government have been dragging its heels
26:45on providing this. This is Hennepin
26:46County Attorney Mary Moriarty who says
26:49they have access to new information, new
26:51evidence
26:52including Renee Good's car, body camera
26:55body camera footage, and statements
26:57from people who were witnesses there.
26:59This is what she had to say to reporters
27:01on Monday.
27:02>> As prosecutors, we are not typically in
27:05the position of trying to figure out
27:07what we don't have that might be in
27:10existence. So, we knew, for instance,
27:13from media
27:15that the federal agents were wearing
27:17body cams
27:18during the interaction with Alex
27:21Prettey.
27:23But, we didn't know whether that was
27:24true or not. So, we now have all of that
27:26information. I wouldn't say that there's
27:28>> footage of that?
27:30>> Um we I believe we do have, I'm told, we
27:33have the body cam evidence.
27:35But, this is voluminous. This is hours
27:37and hours and hours of video. And so, we
27:40are in the process of going through
27:41that.
27:42>> So, it is an ongoing process. And this
27:44these sorts of things will take time.
27:46But, the Minnesota officials in Hennepin
27:48County is where these two shootings
27:50happened. They are conducting an
27:52investigation.
27:53And I assume they will announce the
27:56result of this, and which could include
27:58indictments under violations of state
28:00law, which would create a a whole new
28:02kind of legal worms that would would the
28:04lawyers and judges would have to get
28:06through. But, it's not an it's not a
28:09closed book yet, I think, to answer your
28:10questions. We just have to keep waiting.
28:13>> And of course, the Department of
28:14Homeland Security have their own
28:15investigations into each of these
28:16incidents, but they've told us nothing
28:18about what's going on there. And I
28:19wouldn't hold your breath for the
28:21results of those investigations anytime
28:23soon.

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