“I will hold you in contempt!” Judge drops Epstein BOMB on Trump — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00Today's the day we've been waiting for
2. 0:01because today is the hearing where the
3. 0:03Trump administration was in court trying
4. 0:05to explain away why they did why they
5. 0:07didn't comply with the judge's order to
6. 0:09release the full Epstein files. I'm
7. 0:10joined now by Glenn. Glenn, you were in
8. 0:13the courtroom today in Judge Sullivan's
9. 0:15courtroom. Can you explain what happened
10. 0:17in court today?
11. 0:18>> Yeah, let me not bury the lead, Brian.
12. 0:20I'm glad I was in the courtroom because
13. 0:21I watched Judge Sullivan's frustration
14. 0:24rise. His voice never did, but boy did
15. 0:27his frustration rise. And here is the
16. 0:29money line.
17. 0:31After lecturing the Department of
18. 0:33Justice attorneys for 20 minutes on
19. 0:35contempt of court, he said, and he said
20. 0:39it twice,
21. 0:40"I will hold you in contempt of court if
22. 0:42I have to, and that's not a threat. It's
23. 0:44a promise." So, you know, things got
24. 0:47real in a hurry. Now, Brian, I know our
25. 0:49viewers are probably already saying,
26. 0:51"Well, it's wonderful that he is
27. 0:53threatening, or more accurately
28. 0:54promising, to hold them in contempt, but
29. 0:58what, you know, what results did it
30. 1:00produce today?" So, let me back up and
31. 1:02talk about what happened in court today.
32. 1:04And it was a long hearing. It lasted
33. 1:05about an hour and 40 minutes with a
34. 1:07short break. So, first of all, Judge
35. 1:10Sullivan had ordered Todd Blanche and
36. 1:12the Department of Justice to provide him
37. 1:14certain documents. Why? Because he would
38. 1:18not take their oral representations
39. 1:21for anything. He said, "Show me your
40. 1:24work. I want the documents that back up
41. 1:27what you're trying to claim." So, for
42. 1:29example,
43. 1:30you know, we know that DOJ made a whole
44. 1:32bunch of really strange redactions in
45. 1:35the Epstein files before releasing some
46. 1:38of them. It didn't seem like they were
47. 1:40necessarily victims' names that were
48. 1:42being redacted out. So, the judge said,
49. 1:45"I don't care what you tell me. You show
50. 1:48me the supporting evidence, the
51. 1:49documents unredacted that prove to me
52. 1:52that what you redacted were legitimately
53. 1:55victims' names." Now, remember, Todd
54. 1:58Blanche was playing fast and loose
55. 1:59because he said, "Well, they're victims'
56. 2:01names or they are people whose attorneys
57. 2:05asked us to redact out their names
58. 2:08claiming that in some way they were
59. 2:10victims." So, listen, the judge is
60. 2:13having none of Todd Blanche's oral
61. 2:14representations. Why? Because the
62. 2:16presumption of regularity is gone. In
63. 2:19other words, courts and federal judges
64. 2:21no longer are willing to credit things
65. 2:24federal prosecutors say. They want the
66. 2:26hard evidence supporting these
67. 2:29assertions. So, it was really
68. 2:31interesting because that was the first
69. 2:33category of things that the judge took
70. 2:35up in this hearing. The unredacted
71. 2:38documents to prove you only redacted out
72. 2:40victims' names. So, after hemming and
73. 2:42hawing and hawing and hemming, there was
74. 2:44a lot of hemming and hawing that went on
75. 2:46from this guy named Andrew Block who I
76. 2:49think has been at the Department of
77. 2:51Justice for about a cup of coffee now,
78. 2:53and they sent him in. And this is really
79. 2:56horrific, Brian. They sent him in to be
80. 2:58the willfully ignorant dupe because as
81. 3:02Judge Sullivan went through and asked
82. 3:04him question after question after
83. 3:06question, questions that any competent
84. 3:08government DOJ lawyer should have been
85. 3:10able to answer and would have done his
86. 3:13homework to be prepared to answer it, he
87. 3:15kept saying, "Judge, I don't know. I
88. 3:17don't have that information. I don't
89. 3:19know. That's not available to me." And
90. 3:21the judge said, "Wait a minute. You knew
91. 3:24exactly what you were going to have to
92. 3:25tell me today because I issued an order
93. 3:28telling you what I wanted to know, and
94. 3:30you're telling me you have no idea. Can
95. 3:33you get somebody on the phone at the
96. 3:35Department of Justice who can answer
97. 3:36these questions?" Again, his voice
98. 3:38didn't rise, Judge Sullivan, but his
99. 3:40frustration level did. So, finally, at
100. 3:43the end of the hemming and hawing, this
101. 3:45was unbelievable because Andrew Block
102. 3:48held out as long as he could, and then
103. 3:50when he saw the tide had completely
104. 3:52turned against him, he says, "Judge, I
105. 3:54have a binder here full of some of the
106. 3:57documents regarding these redactions of
107. 4:01victims' names. Can I hand them up to
108. 4:03the court?" You know, to which I'm
109. 4:05saying to myself and the audience, "Why
110. 4:07didn't you open with that, sport?" So,
111. 4:09that was like his last attempt to kind
112. 4:12of deflect and stave off a contempt
113. 4:15ruling. So, he handed them up to the
114. 4:17judge. The judge said, "Well, thank you
115. 4:19for providing this. I will look at it
116. 4:21and take it under advisement." They then
117. 4:23moved on to the second category. This is
118. 4:25going to take me a minute to lay out
119. 4:27because the second category is really
120. 4:29the danger zone for Donald Trump. The
121. 4:31second category of documents that Judge
122. 4:34Sullivan ordered them to produce and
123. 4:36they failed to produce were the
124. 4:38handwritten notes, some 30 or 40 pages
125. 4:41of handwritten notes
126. 4:42uh documenting uh interviews by a
127. 4:4513-year-old victim alleging that Donald
128. 4:47Trump sexually assaulted her and
129. 4:49physically assaulted her, battered her,
130. 4:51punched her. And all they did was turn
131. 4:54over a typewritten summary, what's
132. 4:56called an FBI 302 report. He said, "I
133. 4:59want to see the handwritten notes cuz
134. 5:01there's a ton more information in there
135. 5:03than they had than the typed-up summary
136. 5:05that you ultimately disclosed and you
137. 5:08have failed to provide it in violation
138. 5:10of my court order."
139. 5:12And the judge started asking Andrew
140. 5:14Block questions. "How many pages of
141. 5:16typewritten notes?" Uh "I don't know."
142. 5:18"What are you having problems redacting
143. 5:20out of the handwritten notes?" Uh "Your
144. 5:22Honor, I don't know." You know, and the
145. 5:25judge was having none of it. So, the
146. 5:27judge ultimately turned to the
147. 5:28plaintiffs' counsel, Katie Fang and her
148. 5:30attorneys, and said, "I'm inviting you
149. 5:32to submit an order with respect to these
150. 5:36handwritten notes from the victim. And
151. 5:39we don't know what that proposed order
152. 5:41is going to be. I hope, Brian, it is a
153. 5:43proposed order for the judge to sign
154. 5:45that says, 'You will be in my chambers
155. 5:48Friday close of business with the
156. 5:49handwritten notes or else contempt is
157. 5:52coming your way." But, we have to see
158. 5:54because he didn't go that far. So,
159. 5:56Brian, the third category, and there's a
160. 5:58lot to unpack here. The judge said,
161. 6:01"Listen, the Epstein Files Transparency
162. 6:03Act, the federal law, clearly states
163. 6:06that for any redaction you make, you
164. 6:09must uh that that redaction must be
165. 6:12{quote} accompanied by justification
166. 6:17that you publish in the Federal
167. 6:19Register, a publicly available register
168. 6:22for all to see, and you haven't done it
169. 6:25not once. For all the thousands of
170. 6:27redactions that appear in the documents
171. 6:30that you did deign to disclose." They
172. 6:33actually said, "Well, but judge, the um
173. 6:35the Epstein Files Transparency Act
174. 6:38doesn't set a deadline." Well, the
175. 6:40language is if you redact something and
176. 6:42disclose it, it must be {quote}
177. 6:44accompanied by a justification in the
178. 6:48Federal Register. Tells me that those
179. 6:50things are supposed to happen at the
180. 6:52same time. Kind of what accompanied by
181. 6:54means to the layperson. And so, it
182. 6:57>> by the way, that that deadline was
183. 6:59December 19th, 2025.
184. 7:01>> It was. And and this this is one of the
185. 7:03lighter moments, and I'm going to look
186. 7:04down at my dozen or so pages of copious
187. 7:08notes. So, the judge pressed Andrew
188. 7:11Block over and over again saying,
189. 7:14"How much time do you need? What would
190. 7:15you like me to set by way of a deadline?
191. 7:17Do you need a week? Do you need 30 days?
192. 7:18Do you need 60 days? How" And he
193. 7:20wouldn't answer the question. Not I
194. 7:22don't know, judge. I don't know. I don't
195. 7:24know. He finally said that, "Well, I am
196. 7:27told by some of my superiors at the
197. 7:29Department of Justice that they're
198. 7:31working on it, and that, you know, these
199. 7:34um these justifications
200. 7:37that need to be published in the Federal
201. 7:39Register are {quote} forthcoming." And
202. 7:42Judge Sullivan snapped back. Yeah,
203. 7:44Christmas is forthcoming. That doesn't
204. 7:47tell me anything. You can again, my
205. 7:50voice is rising cuz I get agitated at
206. 7:52the injustice of this all but but Judge
207. 7:54Emmet Sullivan's voice did not rise but
208. 7:57his frustration level did. So basically
209. 8:00the judge is probably going to set a
210. 8:03hard and fast deadline and then Brian
211. 8:05the fourth and final category is foreign
212. 8:07documents. There are foreign language
213. 8:08documents in the FC files that by law
214. 8:11must be translated into English and this
215. 8:14DOJ attorney actually said, well, it
216. 8:16just wasn't all that practical for the
217. 8:19people reviewing these documents to
218. 8:21translate them into English and I think
219. 8:24by this time the judge was just fed up.
220. 8:27He took a break. He said, I'm going to
221. 8:28go back to chambers and I'm going to
222. 8:30kind of ruminate on some of this and
223. 8:32then I'll be back out to talk some more.
224. 8:34When he came back out Brian, it was
225. 8:36story time.
226. 8:37What he did was he said, I presided over
227. 8:40a case against the United States
228. 8:42Senator, Senator Ted Stevens. Some of
229. 8:45our viewers may remember that
230. 8:47prosecution of I believe the longest
231. 8:49serving Senator at the time, Ted Stevens
232. 8:51from Alaska who was prosecuted for
233. 8:53failing to disclose, you know, financial
234. 8:56benefits he was being given.
235. 8:58And he said, you know what the
236. 9:00prosecutors did in that case? And he was
237. 9:03clearly sending a message to the
238. 9:04prosecutors sitting in the courtroom.
239. 9:06They failed to turn over some 33 or 34
240. 9:09exculpatory documents, documents that
241. 9:12could have been helpful to Ted Stevens
242. 9:14defense. They violated the Constitution
243. 9:17by failing to turn over those helpful
244. 9:20documents, that exculpatory
245. 9:23evidence which the Constitution requires
246. 9:25prosecutors to hand over to the defense
247. 9:27so they can use it to defend themselves
248. 9:29against the charges. He said, and they
249. 9:31refused and they defied me and you know
250. 9:34what I did? I walked into court one day
251. 9:36and I said I'm holding you all in
252. 9:38contempt, period. And you know what?
253. 9:41After I held them in contempt, the next
254. 9:43day they produced the documents to the
255. 9:46defense.
256. 9:47This is the I will hold you in contempt
257. 9:50and that's not a threat, it's a promise.
258. 9:52He kept saying I don't want to do it,
259. 9:55but I will.
260. 9:56So, that is the way he left it. It was
261. 10:00kind of an ominous way to conclude the
262. 10:02hearing. He actually said, "I don't need
263. 10:04you to say anything in response. I just
264. 10:06don't want anybody to say they were
265. 10:08blindsided if contempt comes your way
266. 10:11because you're my words playing these
267. 10:13games and you can't even answer straight
268. 10:16factual questions that you knew I would
269. 10:19ask in today's hearing." And with that,
270. 10:23he concluded the hearing and he walked
271. 10:24off the bench.
272. 10:26>> So, what does contempt look like if
273. 10:28that's the avenue that's ultimately
274. 10:30followed here?
275. 10:32>> Civil contempt, which is what he was
276. 10:34talking about. He wasn't talking about
277. 10:36criminal contempt. Those are two
278. 10:37different things. I can touch on both of
279. 10:38them. He expressly was talking about
280. 10:40civil contempt. Civil contempt is
281. 10:43designed not to punish the person who is
282. 10:46in contempt, who's defied defied orders.
283. 10:49It is designed to compel compliance with
284. 10:52the orders. So, civil contempt can look
285. 10:55like imposing a thousand-dollar-a-day
286. 10:58fine personally on the government
287. 11:00lawyers. They might be reimbursed, but
288. 11:02let's set that aside until they purge
289. 11:05the contempt by complying with the
290. 11:07order. And that was the story he told
291. 11:09about the Ted Stevens case. He finally
292. 11:11held them in civil contempt and the next
293. 11:14day they complied with the order and he
294. 11:16vacated the contempt finding. But you
295. 11:18know what? He also made clear, Brian,
296. 11:20that he is on what's called the Judicial
297. 11:22Tenure Committee and has been for 21
298. 11:24years. He's been on the federal bench
299. 11:26for 41 and a half years. I've appeared
300. 11:28before Judge Sullivan. You don't try his
301. 11:31patience and you don't, you know, you
302. 11:33don't think you can talk your way out of
303. 11:35anything in front of Judge Sullivan. So,
304. 11:37he was talking expressly about civil
305. 11:39contempt as a way to force, to compel
306. 11:43these lawyers to provide the damn
307. 11:46documents. In fact, at one point, he
308. 11:48actually said the American people want
309. 11:51to know what the hell is going on. That
310. 11:54is a quote. So, um that is what he is
311. 11:57contemplating, civil contempt to force
312. 12:00compliance. However, the next step, if
313. 12:03you violate civil contempt and you're
314. 12:05still not in compliance with the order,
315. 12:07then you can be punished with criminal
316. 12:10contempt. Now, mind you, that's a whole
317. 12:12different process. You can A judge can
318. 12:14summarily hold somebody in civil
319. 12:17contempt literally with a bang of his or
320. 12:19her gavel, but criminal contempt
321. 12:22requires sort of a mini trial to be
322. 12:25held. A very abbreviated trial, but the
323. 12:28person who might be found guilty of
324. 12:30criminal contempt, a crime, has those
325. 12:33wonderful rights that we've heard so
326. 12:34much about in, for example, the Abrego
327. 12:37Garcia case,
328. 12:38notice and opportunity to be heard. So,
329. 12:40they can mount a mini defense before the
330. 12:43judge decides if they are in criminal
331. 12:44contempt. And if they're in criminal
332. 12:46contempt, they can be jailed. So, you
333. 12:48know,
334. 12:49there are different ways to compel
335. 12:50compliance. There are different ways to
336. 12:52punish people who are defying court
337. 12:53orders, but right now, as of right now,
338. 12:56the judge is starting by not
339. 12:58threatening, but promising civil
340. 13:00contempt.
341. 13:02>> Now, contempt aside, based on your
342. 13:04vantage, because you were in the
343. 13:05courtroom today, does it feel like Judge
344. 13:07uh Sullivan is ensuring that we're
345. 13:09actually going to get some some uh
346. 13:12transparency on the Epstein files now? I
347. 13:14mean, it almost feels like a joke at
348. 13:16this point, because these things were
349. 13:17supposed to be released 9 months ago.
350. 13:19Todd Blanche obviously has zero
351. 13:21intention of of releasing them. And, as
352. 13:25you mentioned, when when when Judge
353. 13:27Sullivan was asking how much time they
354. 13:28would need and the the flunky who was
355. 13:31sent in from the DOJ wouldn't even give
356. 13:33a straight answer, it's not because he
357. 13:35didn't know, it's because they have no
358. 13:36intention of releasing these things.
359. 13:38They didn't even do the accompanying
360. 13:41disclosure reports. And so, there was
361. 13:43never any intention of releasing the
362. 13:45Epstein files.
363. 13:46So, they don't need 30 days or 60 days.
364. 13:49They don't need any amount of days
365. 13:50because they don't want to release them.
366. 13:52But, does it feel like Judge Sullivan is
367. 13:53going to ensure that they actually do
368. 13:55comply with the law or is there some way
369. 13:57from your vantage that they'll still try
370. 13:59to circumvent this stuff?
371. 14:00>> Yeah, it's a great question, Brian. This
372. 14:02feels like gamesmanship, which is
373. 14:04probably the nicest thing I can call it
374. 14:06by the Department of Justice. I agree
375. 14:09with you that and actually Katie Fang's
376. 14:11lawyers lawyers for the plaintiff stood
377. 14:13up and said, "We don't believe they have
378. 14:15any intent of complying with your
379. 14:17honor's orders." And so, it it feels
380. 14:20like it's a game being played. A couple
381. 14:22of things I'll say about whether we're
382. 14:23going to see full full transparency.
383. 14:26One, I do think that this suit has only
384. 14:28been up and running for a a couple or a
385. 14:30few months now, which I know sounds like
386. 14:32a long time, but in the life of civil
387. 14:34litigation in federal court, it's really
388. 14:35not. So, what Judge Sullivan kept saying
389. 14:38is, "I don't want to know what's in
390. 14:41these files for my own benefit. I am
391. 14:44here to make sure you comply with the
392. 14:47federal law and that the American people
393. 14:50and journalists like Katie Fang get
394. 14:53access to what the law provides they
395. 14:56should get access to." So, I think we're
396. 14:59probably going to begin to see some
397. 15:01transparency with respect to whatever it
398. 15:03is these DOJ lawyers did deliver today,
399. 15:07and I think very soon will be ordered to
400. 15:10deliver or be held in contempt for
401. 15:11failing to deliver. But, you know,
402. 15:14that's just obviously a small subset of
403. 15:17the Epstein files. What I do think we're
404. 15:19moving in the direction of, albeit far
405. 15:21too slowly for my taste, your taste, and
406. 15:24the taste of the American people who
407. 15:26have been waiting since December 19th
408. 15:28for full transparency. I think
409. 15:30eventually, Katie Fang asked the judge
410. 15:32to say, "Judge,
411. 15:34you're going to have to appoint a
412. 15:35special master to review all of the
413. 15:38Epstein files because DOJ is playing
414. 15:40games and they can't be trusted. So, I
415. 15:43you know, listen, Judge Sullivan
416. 15:45understands that in in part he has to
417. 15:48give them enough rope to hang themselves
418. 15:50with, figuratively speaking, and that's
419. 15:52what he's trying to do by, among other
420. 15:55things, slow walking them in the
421. 15:57direction of criminal contempt, giving
422. 15:59them every opportunity to fully comply
423. 16:02with his court orders. Do I think we're
424. 16:05going to see full transparency? Probably
425. 16:07not during the lifetime of the tenure of
426. 16:09Todd Blanche heading up the Department
427. 16:12of Justice because he is still acting as
428. 16:15Donald Trump's criminal defense
429. 16:17attorneys and he is there solely to
430. 16:19protect
431. 16:20Donald Trump's interest. I think the
432. 16:22most telling point, Brian, is the most
433. 16:25pitched battle is being fought over not
434. 16:29disclosing 30 or 40 pages of handwritten
435. 16:32notes taken by FBI agents of four
436. 16:35interviews of a 13-year-old who alleged
437. 16:38Donald Trump sexually and physically
438. 16:40assaulted her. That should tell us
439. 16:42everything we need to know. And mind
440. 16:44you, there is no legitimate exception to
441. 16:47turning those over and Judge Sullivan
442. 16:49threw that right back at these DOJ
443. 16:52lawyers cuz all they could come up with
444. 16:54was, "Well, Judge, those notes are kind
445. 16:57of duplicative
446. 16:59of the typed-up reports and they're
447. 17:01substantially verbatim." And the judge
448. 17:03said, "Yeah, and you know what?
449. 17:05The Epstein Files Transparency Act does
450. 17:07not have an exception for duplicative or
451. 17:10substantially verbatim documents, so you
452. 17:14need to turn the handwritten notes over
453. 17:16first to me and then I suspect he will
454. 17:19disclose what he believes must be
455. 17:21disclosed in accordance with the federal
456. 17:24law.
457. 17:24>> Well, obviously a lot to say on top of
458. 17:26here and more to come on this topic in
459. 17:28particular. So for those who are
460. 17:29watching, if you want to stay on top of
461. 17:31this news, uh the best way to do that is
462. 17:33to subscribe to both of our channels.
463. 17:34I'm going to put those links right here
464. 17:35on the screen and also in the post
465. 17:36description of this video. I'm Brian
466. 17:38Tyler Cohen.
467. 17:39>> And I'm Glenn Kirschner.
468. 17:40>> You're watching the Legal Breakdown.
469. 17:44>> [music]