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"I’ve Never Run a Google Ad" - Here’s the System That Made Me $100M with Kasim Aslam — Transcript

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0:06Welcome back to the management podcast.
0:09I've got Kasam Alam as a guest and you
0:12can't miss this podcast.
0:15High energy, great input, great topics,
0:18things to learn. This is a really sharp
0:21guy. He's 40 years old, but he's got
0:243,000 books in his house and he's read
0:26probably most or all of them. He didn't
0:28say, but it wouldn't surprise me as if
0:30he read all of them. And he's had
0:32tremendous success. So, let's dive in.
0:35There's things to learn here. We have a
0:36great conversation, and you're going to
0:38walk away thinking, "Oh, maybe I should
0:40think of this, maybe I should think of
0:41that." You won't regret it. Thanks,
0:44Kum. Great to have you on the show.
0:46You've done a ton of stuff. I mean, you
0:48were like digital marketing expert and
0:50then you've got all these things you've
0:52learned about managing time priorities,
0:54but I know it's really on your heart and
0:56something you've worked on and developed
0:58over 20 years. A hiring system.
1:01Everybody's got problems with hiring. I
1:02mean, I've got my hire the best system.
1:04We should compare notes. I don't know.
1:06Where do you want to start? Yeah. I
1:07think I think talent acquisition ends up
1:09being the most important entrepreneurial
1:10endeavor to be honest with you. So many
1:13people really, if you think about it,
1:15they own a job. They don't own a
1:17business. And I don't think you own a
1:18business until other people are running
1:19it. So if you don't know how to hire, I
1:21imagine this is going to be a pretty
1:22good episode.
1:24It's interesting because you know, you
1:27go back to Jim Collins, good to great.
1:28It was who you get on the bus, right?
1:30Yeah. And then I love the story of
1:34Malali when he came to Ford. I mean
1:36without Mali there may have not been a
1:39Ford or at least an independent Ford.
1:41Yeah. I don't know the story. Oh, well,
1:43Bill Ford, I mean, the Ford dynasty, you
1:46know, owned Ford Motor Company. And back
1:49in long time ago, maybe the 80s, you
1:52know, that all the three big car makers
1:54went into bankruptcy basically or or
1:58were about to.
2:00And so you had Chrysler and General
2:02Motors took government money and Ford
2:06realized he was in over his head, Bill
2:09Ford, the son. And so his board went out
2:13and recruited Alan Malali from Boeing
2:16because Malali had done a incredible job
2:19in a division of Boeing but been
2:21overlooked to become the CEO. So he's
2:24probably a little salty. Yeah. Yeah.
2:26Yeah. So they brought him in and one of
2:29the brilliant things that he did was he
2:31brought them together on a vision where
2:33it was one team, one play, one goal. And
2:38he just lived that out. And I remember
2:40reading early on where he went with some
2:43engineers to Consumer Reports, I think
2:45it was, who were testing one of the cars
2:48and Consumer Reports that they started
2:51ripping the car apart and his engineers
2:54were arguing with the Consumer Reports
2:56evaluators.
2:58I mean, one of them was a lady who
2:59wasn't very tall and she couldn't reach
3:01up and pull down the latch or the uh the
3:04SUV back, you know, that was way up in
3:06the air. Yeah.
3:07So, it didn't take him long, but he just
3:09told his engineers, "Hey, I want you to
3:12shut up." Yeah. Just take notes, right?
3:15You're not here to tell them what to
3:16think. But that showed you what type of
3:18guy he was. And he brought everybody
3:19together. He got rid of a lot of the
3:21bureaucracy, political infighting, all
3:24the garbage, and and turned Ford Motor
3:26around. Wow. I love that story. It was a
3:28great one, one play, and one goal.
3:30That's brilliant. Yeah. And that's
3:32online. You can find that. And he had
3:34there was a card he had that had some
3:37details on it. Had it was a brilliant
3:40thing that he did and a lot more things.
3:42But yeah. So I don't know about you, but
3:45for me, my biggest hiring mistake cost
3:48me over about a million and a half. But
3:50what led you to focus on hiring?
3:53Oh, laziness. I uh
3:57I've built six multi-million dollar
3:59businesses. I've had two exits. I'm
4:00actually working on my third exit right
4:02now. One of my existence was for eight
4:04figures to a soft bank back martekch
4:05company. And uh I bring that up because
4:09every business I've ever built that's
4:11been successful has really been built on
4:13the prowess of somebody else. So I'm
4:15massively more successful than I deserve
4:17to be because my very strong opinion is
4:19entrepreneurship is not fulfillment. So
4:22to give you some examples, I built the
4:24number one ranked Google Ads agency in
4:25the world. We had $100 million in ad
4:27spend under management. I had 100
4:28employees, 200 clients, thousands of
4:30companies that went through that shop.
4:32I've never run a Google ad campaign
4:34myself end to end in my life. David, I
4:36wouldn't know how to. And I don't want
4:38to. I don't feel like my my job if I own
4:41a Google Ads agency is to run Google
4:42Ads. It's to find the greatest Google
4:45Ads managers. I had the highest
4:46performing real estate investment
4:48campaign on the planet before I knew
4:49anything about lead generation or had
4:50ever invested in real estate. I
4:52currently own the largest
4:54English-speaking monastery community in
4:56the world. I'm not a trained monator,
4:58nor do I own a monastery school. I own a
5:00staffing agency out of Latin America.
5:02I'm not Latin American. I don't even
5:03speak Spanish. I own aeo.co. And you and
5:06on and on and on. The the point I hope
5:08this doesn't sound braggadocious.
5:10Really, the thing that I've done, the
5:12code that I've cracked is the fact that
5:15most entrepreneurs view the endeavor of
5:20entrepreneurship is something like doing
5:21the work. And and I think the endeavor
5:23of entrepreneurship is finding somebody
5:25who can do the work way better than you
5:27can. And maybe most importantly getting
5:30out of their way because I hear people
5:32say all the time like, "Oh, there's no
5:33good help these days." And if you want
5:34something done, do it yourself. And they
5:36don't realize it. But they're the
5:37problem. People are a miracle. They're
5:39extraordinary. You know what I like
5:41we're putting men on on the moon and
5:43we're going to Mars and like the things
5:45that we've created are are even if
5:47you're an atheist, you have to you have
5:49to believe that just the the human
5:52there's this ultra intelligent
5:54chimpanzeee roaming around on this
5:55floating rock solving problems and
5:57building things like that's a miracle by
6:00definition. And these miracles are
6:02available to us but what we do is we
6:04break them. We ruin them cuz you bring
6:06this miracle of a human in who's capable
6:08of god knows what just about anything
6:10and then you sit there and you look over
6:11their shoulder and you're like, "Oh,
6:12change the red to blue. Change square to
6:14circle. You're doing it wrong. Do it
6:15this way." And entrepreneurs are instant
6:17and immediate micromanagers, generally
6:19speaking, is a stereotype in my personal
6:20opinion. And authorship creates
6:22ownership. So you bring in somebody that
6:23could be a peak performer, let's say, if
6:25you've done it the right way. And within
6:2790 days, their hands are off the wheel
6:29because you're driving because
6:31entrepreneurship, you know, or
6:32entrepreneurs and business owners and
6:33and managers and VPs and director level,
6:36they believe in the prowess of their own
6:38intervention. You know, they think they
6:40know. And and here's what here's what
6:42everybody who's ever actually done a job
6:44knows. You flash back to being a kid,
6:46whatever job you had. I worked at
6:47McDonald's. Here's what I knew. I was on
6:49the burger line. I knew way more about
6:52making that damn burger than the the
6:53idiot supervisor that would come over
6:55and start giving me advice because I had
6:56to do it over and over and over and over
6:58again all day. But then this
7:01comes along and starts telling me how to
7:03do my and and I'm resentful and I'm mad
7:05and I slow down and we do that to our
7:08employees as a rule. We're actually
7:10taught you pull any I have 3,000 books
7:12in my home. I'm obsessed with books. You
7:14pull any business book off the shelf and
7:15I'll tell you what they'll all say,
7:16David, without a single exception that I
7:18have found. every business book and
7:20these are from the greats. These are
7:21people that I love and admire and
7:22respect deeply. Maxwell, CVY, Dallio,
7:25doesn't matter. They talk about and
7:27treat us and train us to think about
7:29people as commodities. That's the way
7:31business functions. So they say, "Oh,
7:33all you need is a system, right? If you
7:35have a system, then you bring in a
7:36person." And the inference there is
7:39what? You just bring in a person, right?
7:41Like a corn is a commodity. If you have
7:43an ear corn and I have an ear corn and
7:45we swap, we're no worse off than we were
7:47moments ago. But if you have a person
7:49and I have a person and we swap, in what
7:51world are those two things parasu? Even
7:54if let's say it's the same person with
7:55the same background, the same education
7:56who says same job from the same school,
7:58you have a CPA and I have a CPA and we
8:00swap. Dude, I don't know about you, but
8:01if I lost my CPA, that's
8:02catastrophically damaging. But they talk
8:04to us, they treat us to think about
8:06people's commodities. Like, oh, you just
8:07build a system, then you put a person in
8:08place and then that person just executes
8:10on the system. That's not a whole lot
8:12different than a trained monkey, you
8:14know? But when you when you change your
8:16paradigm and you look at people like
8:18they're literal miracles and you expect
8:20miracles cuz that's the other thing.
8:21Expectations are high. When I hire I
8:24don't hire manageable people because
8:25manageable people need to be managed. I
8:27hire people that run through walls and
8:29if you can't do that you're not going to
8:30it's just not going to work out very
8:32quickly or for very long. Yeah. Because
8:34that's the thesis. That's the paradigm.
8:36Yeah. But my big mistake in my career
8:39has been a lack of systems understanding
8:42how to do the systems. So, and you've
8:44got to have some systems or you wouldn't
8:46be successful. So, if we can maybe drill
8:49into that a little bit, I sense although
8:51you're speaking against systems that no,
8:54they're pro promoting these books, but
8:56you're actually much in favor of
8:58systems. So, what's the ideal system?
9:01Particularly, you know, I'm I'm curious
9:03about I'm big in in hiring that you
9:07can't hire anybody in that we use a pro
9:09sports metaphor, you know, unless you
9:11scrimmage them. So you give them real
9:12work to do, see what they do and can is
9:15that acceptable, you know, what they do.
9:18But what are the systems that you do
9:20believe in? Because you can't have a
9:21business without systems. I No, I think
9:24that systems might be one of the most
9:25important non-animated
9:28facets of a business, right? Like if a
9:30business is nothing but systems and
9:31people interacting with each other and I
9:33think systems are critical and to make
9:36this conversation meta, I actually don't
9:38think you are supposed to come up with
9:40those systems. I think nobody ever asks
9:43the kid on the burger line, how do you
9:45think we should be doing this burger?
9:46And if you've noticed, and this tends to
9:48be an entrepreneurial trope is, you
9:50know, what is it? The guy who made
9:52Lamborghini came from Ferrari and the
9:53guy who made Honda came from Toyota and
9:55and on and on because it's the people
9:57that are doing the work that develop the
9:59most effective, most efficient, most
10:01functional systems. And usually
10:03entrepreneurs, and this is this there's
10:05nothing wrong with this. When you start
10:07your business, you're developing your
10:08own systems because you're also doing
10:09the work. You're the technician and
10:10you're the entrepreneur and you're the
10:11business owner. You take out the trash
10:12and so you build the systems and then
10:14you ascend on the value ladder. You
10:16ascend in the dominance hierarchy. And
10:18as you ascend, for some reason, we keep
10:21the system hat and we're like, "Oh, I'm
10:23going to keep making those systems and
10:24I'm going to start as this business
10:26grows. I'm going to bring people in and
10:27I'm going to tell them how to do this
10:28job that I don't do, don't know how to
10:29do, don't want to do, and has changed
10:31since I did it 3 5 6 7 8 9 years ago."
10:34So, what I like to do is I bring people
10:36in and I have a system for bringing
10:38people in, by the way, that I think is
10:39extraordinary. And it sounds like you
10:40and I have very similar systems because
10:41it has a trial project involved. And
10:43when I bring people in, the first time a
10:45job is done, there's no system involved.
10:47The disclaimer I make is, "Hey, David,
10:49I'm bringing you in to help me crack the
10:50social media code. I don't know anything
10:52about social media. I'm 40 years old
10:53now, and and that has escaped me. So,
10:55what I'd like for you to do since, you
10:57know, this is part of your prowess, is
10:59help me crack this code. And while we're
11:00cracking it, I want a culture of
11:02documentation so that we can figure out
11:04what it is that we're doing. So the next
11:05person that we bring in actually has
11:07something to work from. So I want you as
11:09you're learning what works to help me
11:11build this system so we can build a
11:13whole social media department. But in
11:14the very beginning, there's nothing. And
11:15if that scares you off, by the way,
11:16you're the wrong person for this role
11:18cuz I'm not here to manage you, tell you
11:19what to do, tell you what the KPRs are,
11:21tell you what the scorecard is, tell you
11:22what I'm here to call the black box of
11:24delegation. This is my desired end
11:26result. I want to be famous online. I
11:28want a million subscribers on YouTube. I
11:29want everybody to know who I am in my
11:30industry. Desired end result. Here are
11:32all the resources I'm willing to give
11:33you. All the software, all the money,
11:35all the stakeholders, all the other
11:36employees. And then whatever happens in
11:38the middle, none of my damn business.
11:40Black box. You do this. And that's true
11:42for anything. I want a new website. I
11:44want a new standard operating procedure.
11:45I want a new manual. I want a faster
11:46car. Steve Jobs did this. Steve Jobs
11:48wasn't a developer. He said, I want all
11:50of my music on that phone. Figure it
11:53out. And what you have in the middle is
11:56a solution. And when you cross the
11:58bridge the very first time, that's the
12:00other issue with systems thinkers is
12:01they build this system as though it's
12:03the bridge. That's the wrong way to do
12:04it. You build a rope bridge first to
12:06make sure you can get from end to end.
12:08And once you've got your rickety rope
12:09bridge, you say, "Okay, hey, we can go
12:10back and forth on this thing a couple of
12:11times. Let's make it a stick bridge, a
12:13brick bridge, a steel bridge, and then
12:14and and then you begin to build out the
12:16bridge." And that's the right way to
12:17build systems. My humble opinion, you
12:19know, most anytime I love a reference to
12:22Steve Jobs, he did maintain I don't
12:24think he was a micromanager. I agree
12:26with you on that. But I think he did
12:28maintain that quality
12:30standard in an excellent way. High
12:33expectations. So he needed to have like
12:35you said wild expectation. You're going
12:37to love there's a there's a guy I
12:39brought up previously in the podcast,
12:40but Jack Schuler, he out of his garage
12:43built Cal Technology Group up to about
12:4690 people, sold it. Then he did NIO,
12:49which was security training through
12:51animation. But Zach had a second in
12:54command named Luca when he was at
12:56Calmet. And one day Luca came in and
12:58said, "Hey, what do I do about such and
13:00such?" And Zach went, "Oh." And he fell
13:02on the floor. Pretend I have a heart
13:04attack. And Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Luca
13:06looked at me, he said, "What are you
13:08doing?" He said, "I I'm dead. You got to
13:11figure out what to do on your own."
13:12Yeah. Because Zach's thing was he would
13:16promote people and if they were 80%
13:18right, he let him run with it. Is that
13:20what I'm hearing you say? Do So there's
13:23a quote from Dan Martell. Dan Martell
13:25says 80% done by somebody else is 100%
13:28awesome. And that's, you know, I've got
13:31two businesses that I I hate the logo
13:33and I hate the name. I have a business
13:35called Architects. We do uh managed
13:38services for people that use a very
13:39specific type of software. It's it's a
13:41very niche business, but I had access to
13:43the audience. And so we launched this
13:44business. I hate the name. I hate the
13:45URL. I hate the logo. I hate the brand.
13:47And you know what? I'm probably wrong.
13:48it's already a multi6figure business on
13:51its way to being a seven-f figureure
13:52business and I'm a passive owner. Why
13:54would I get in there and start saying
13:56tweak this, change that, move this when
13:58there's somebody who's actually
13:59passionate about it and really likes
14:00what it is that we've developed and
14:02build. So when these entrepreneurs never
14:04ever ever critique subjectivity,
14:08if it's objectively wrong, hey y'all,
14:10we're marching in the wrong direction,
14:11it's the wrong vision, it's the wrong
14:12approach, it's the wrong pricing, it's
14:14the wrong customer, it's objectively
14:15wrong, coach people towards what's
14:17right. And really, that's a mistake you
14:19made because that should have been
14:20defined ahead of time. Right. The black
14:22box. Agreed. Yeah. If it's subjective,
14:25shut your mouth. It's ego, you know?
14:28It's it's just everybody wanting to feel
14:29like they're involved and and they've
14:31somehow come in and taken ownership of
14:33this business. And what's really cool is
14:35the more you get out of the way, the
14:37faster people run and the more effective
14:39they are. And especially if you're
14:41incentives are aligned. That's the other
14:42thing people do horribly wrong is
14:44they're like, "Oh, I want peak
14:44performers." First question, what do you
14:46pay? What do you pay? And everybody
14:49hires people like their commodities. You
14:51know, if the window is 75 to 100 grand
14:53for this role, they're trying to pay 74.
14:54I'd tell people pay 10% more than the
14:56high water mark. And then now, but they
14:59hear that wrong. They hear 10% more and
15:01they think, "Okay, 75, 10% more than
15:0375." No, no, no. 10% more than the high
15:05water mark. If the window's 75 to 100, I
15:06want you to pay 110. And entrepreneurs
15:08go, "Oh, I could never afford that." And
15:10what they don't understand is there's
15:11nothing more expensive than a cheap
15:12employee. Because when you hire the
15:14best, you don't get 20, 30, 40% more.
15:17You get 10 times more, 100 times more.
15:20When I sold my business for eight
15:21figures, one person managed 40% of our
15:23revenue. That's the PTO distribution.
15:25It's a natural distribution. in every
15:27organic ecosystem and you can fight it
15:29and distribute the risk and you end up
15:30with quick and loans, a
15:32business with a bunch of bullshitters
15:34doing aggregate average garbage work or
15:37lean into the PTO distribution. Hire the
15:39best of the best of the best of the best
15:41index towards that type of output and
15:44then you end up with when I sold my
15:45business I had 40% margins in an
15:47industry that aims at 50% as a high
15:49watermark. Like we crushed but I had
15:52people that were bloodthirsty killers.
15:53They were assassins and I got out of
15:55their way. So, but am I hearing you? I'm
15:59adding a little detail, but you're
16:01talking about you got to figure things
16:02out in advance. Part of what you got to
16:04figure out is what the metrics are that
16:06you want achieved and then I mean what I
16:10love to set up is I like to set up not
16:12pay that's 10% between this margin. I
16:16want to set up unlimited pay. You can
16:17earn unlimited compensation based on
16:19performance. So, here in the more you
16:21blow it out of the water, the more you
16:23make. I don't care because you make 10%
16:26maybe of what we're doing. I still get
16:2890% or the business gets 90%. You go do
16:31that all day long. Yeah. No, I I so I
16:33think you have to meet employees where
16:34they are just in terms of you know it's
16:35it's why defining terms is important.
16:38When somebody is seeking a job employers
16:41aren't entrepreneur employees are not
16:42entrepreneurs. Douglas Bman wrote a
16:44really good book called driven. It's
16:45what we named our mastermind after. And
16:47he talks about the epigenetic phenomena
16:49that is entrepreneurship. We're actually
16:50broken. You and I. entrepreneurs are
16:53broken people. And and that's
16:54technically true. The way that dopamine,
16:57norepinephrine, and serotonin occur in
16:59our brain is different. It's 10% of
17:01humanity. He call it the hunter brain.
17:03We experience an increase in I think
17:05dopamine and and serotonin and a
17:08decrease in norepinephrine. I'm probably
17:09getting the chemical cocktail wrong, but
17:11it's the same cocktail involved in love
17:13and sex. We experience those emotions in
17:16the pursuit of a goal. And oddly when we
17:20achieve the goal it drops we get
17:22depressed. The farmer brain experiences
17:25those emotions upon the accomplishment
17:28of the goal. And entrepreneurs look at
17:30employees and we look at them it's it's
17:32almost a porative. It's like oh I could
17:33never be an employee. Like those aren't,
17:34you know, those are those people. And
17:36really I think in a lot of ways there
17:37there's actually more integrity to the
17:38way that their brain functions. And when
17:42I my opinion is and hopefully this isn't
17:44too aggressive. When we try to align
17:46employees with entrepreneurial goals
17:47from the outset, it actually makes them
17:49uncomfortable. It's kind of like what's
17:50the game here? So I like to meet them
17:52where they are, which is you're looking
17:54for a salary, here's a salary, right?
17:56And my salary is higher than that guy's
17:57salary. And then when we talk about
17:59ascension now, the ascension is well,
18:02wait a minute, because this is actually
18:03what I think employer employers do
18:04wrong. I don't know what this garbage is
18:06about. five or 10% increase in salary
18:08year-over-year just for sitting there
18:09and being alive. Like, I agree. You know
18:11what I mean? Like, go go go pound sand.
18:12Go work for Southwest Airlines. God
18:14bless you. Here's what I'll do is as you
18:16create more value, you get and you you
18:18throw out the number 10%. We just
18:19launched a new company, AEO.CO. It'll be
18:21live in June or July. 10% of the net
18:24profit is reserved for the employees.
18:26And what that means is the more
18:27efficient the shop is, the more money
18:28the employees make. And you just take
18:30the amount of money that anybody's been
18:31paid and that becomes their percentage
18:32of the pool. And I think I'm going to
18:34make some people millionaires. I made
18:36people millionaires in my last exit
18:38because I we were very very very closely
18:40aligned in terms of incentives. When I
18:41had a Google ads agency, the more
18:43revenue you managed, the more money you
18:45made and one guy managed 40% of the
18:47revenue. Guess what he got paid? You
18:49know, so like as you perform in a way
18:51that yields for me, it yields for you.
18:53Everybody sees all the books, everybody
18:55sees all the profitability. Am I taking
18:56home 90%? Yeah, I am. I started the
18:58business. I took all the risk. You want
18:59to do that? God bless. If not, stick
19:00around here and, you know, stay on the
19:02gravy train. Now when you consider that
19:05when you set aside that 10% did you
19:07consider how that gets divided in one
19:11instance with a with some clients more
19:13than one instance basically we took that
19:1610% and we said okay half of it's going
19:18to be paid out based on your
19:21compensation. Mhm. So it's going to be
19:23staggered based on that. The other half
19:25is going to be based out with your long
19:27be based on the longevity with the
19:29company. Mhm. So the people who've been
19:31here longer can get an edge there
19:32because it might be your executive
19:34assistant who's been there 10 years
19:36versus some superstar. Other people just
19:38do a flat payout. Do you have an opinion
19:40on that? I do. I'm with you. So and I
19:43actually think that calculation is built
19:45into your payroll already. If somebody's
19:47been with you for 10 years,
19:50every dollar they've earned is
19:52representative of the time they've been
19:54with you. If somebody hasn't been with
19:56you for very long, but they're making
19:57much much more money, it stands to
19:58reason that they're contributing more.
20:00And so if you just take the gross
20:02revenue paid to every employee, the
20:04gross revenue becomes an indication of
20:07both the X and the Y axis in that
20:08context, the length of time they've been
20:10there and the amount of value they've
20:12provided. And if they've been there a
20:13long long time and they've been paid a
20:15lot of money, they're going to, you
20:16know, be up into the to the right, which
20:18is where everybody wants to be. So I
20:19think you just take the gross payout for
20:21every employee and then you divide it
20:23accordingly. The only time I'll make
20:25adjustments to that is when we have uh
20:28disperate geographical locations at
20:31play. So like when I sold Solutions 8, I
20:33had US employees, Canadian employees,
20:35Filipino employees, Indian employees,
20:36Latin American employees. And it starts
20:38to get unfair because, you know, if
20:40you're in the Philippines, you know, 500
20:42bucks a month is what some people pay
20:44their Philippine. We paid ours a lot
20:45more. A lot more. And I wanted to make
20:48sure that there was, you know, a level
20:50of fairness and reciprocity just in in
20:53what I thought they brought to the
20:55table. Uh but for the most part, I in my
20:57mind it's cash in cash out. What you
20:59contribute to the company is already
21:00represented by what I paid you. So why
21:01wouldn't I use that as the core metric?
21:03Yeah. And then what we did, we also did
21:05not include we just included as far as
21:08the compensation piece, it was just the
21:09base pay. So if you were getting
21:11commissions or bonuses beyond that, just
21:13to calculate. Now I have another
21:15question for you. So you talk about
21:16hiring people to do something that you
21:19don't know how to do. Don't want to do.
21:21Yeah. Don't or don't want to do. Yeah.
21:24So talk about what's that process that
21:27you even though you don't have expertise
21:29in that area although you do have an
21:30idea, you have a vision or something you
21:32want to achieve or some metrics or maybe
21:34you're going to work out the metrics
21:35with this new person. How do you qualify
21:38that person? How do you scrimmage them?
21:39How do you run them through some
21:41workouts to confirm, yeah, this person's
21:43going to be a match? They they have the
21:45skills, they have the knowledge, they
21:47have the soft skills, and they're a good
21:49culture fit and I can trust them. Yeah,
21:52it's a great question. So, my hiring
21:54framework looks something. Do you mind
21:56if I just walk through the funnel start
21:57to finish and you tell me? Go ahead,
21:59that's fine. Cuz it's the reason I'm
22:01asking to do that is because the
22:02precursors are also relevant to the
22:04discussion. Yeah. So, I put out a job
22:07post and I put it everywhere. People
22:09don't realize that job postings are
22:11sales letters. So, if you want to be a
22:13good marketer, the more traffic you get,
22:15the more people that come into your
22:17funnel. And because a funnel tapers, the
22:19more people that will ultimately make it
22:20to the end of the funnel. So, you want
22:21as much traffic as you can possibly get.
22:23So, if you're looking for people, you
22:25don't want to just post on Indeed one
22:26time and then call it a day. Post on
22:28every available job board for that
22:30geography and that industry in
22:31existence. And also make sure to include
22:33things like Facebook groups, LinkedIn
22:34groups, niche, you know, Slack threads,
22:37etc. Get really creative. Post the job
22:39board. Be very upfront about the salary.
22:4210% more than the high water mark. And
22:44and love on people. I like to make sure
22:46that people know you're going to work
22:47from home. You're going to work on a
22:48flexible schedule. I'm not going to
22:49screenshot your desktop. You're not
22:50going to clock in and out. You don't
22:51have to ask me to pee. If you want to go
22:52to the dentist, go don't talk to me
22:53about it. Just manage your own time and
22:55you're going to do meaningful work. Like
22:56I'm going to treat you like a grown ass
22:58human and I'm going to pay you better
22:59than anybody's ever paid you. And my
23:01expectations are 1% higher than what
23:02you're getting. So just know this is a
23:04hard job and you're going to get a lot.
23:05So what what ends up happening in those
23:07instances is you get inundated with
23:09applications. You have more it takes a
23:11thousand applications to produce one a
23:12one EA at my staffing company. So I have
23:15what I call flight traps and the first
23:17flight trap my favorite is I just put at
23:20the very top of the job posting to apply
23:22your subject line must read. I actually
23:23read the instructions. Now there's a
23:25little hint embedded in there which is
23:26you should actually read the
23:27instructions. Any email that's sent to
23:29our inbox I never use HR portals. Any
23:32email sent to the inbox reserved for
23:34these roles that doesn't say actually
23:35read the instructions is automatically
23:37archived because if you can't follow
23:38that very very very simple instruction
23:40especially if you're uniform I don't
23:41want to know who you are within the
23:43confines of the instructions are things
23:45like taking the predictive index
23:47personality test sending me a link to
23:48your resume in PDF format with this
23:50naming convention and and what I just
23:51said doesn't matter could be a link
23:53could be an attachment could be PDF
23:54could be doc the naming all I want to
23:56know is you can follow very simple
23:57instructions and then I have them do
23:58things like answer you know I I really
24:00love this quote by Khil Jabbron work is
24:02love made visible. So I'll say what does
24:03this quote mean to you? You could choose
24:04a Bible verse or a quote from the Ford
24:06Motor Company. It doesn't matter but you
24:08want to know personality fits. If you're
24:09an animal, what can an animal be? Those
24:10types of things. So they send you this
24:12packet and I'm looking for how they
24:14communicate, how they format, how they
24:15submit. And then I'll come back. You
24:17applied for a job with me. I'd say,
24:18"Hey, David, thank you so much for
24:20following instructions. Really
24:21appreciate you. I've known I've hired
24:22enough people to know we're never going
24:24to work well together until we've worked
24:26together. So an interview is going to
24:27tell me nothing and your resume tells me
24:28nothing until we've worked together.
24:29What I'd like to do is I'd like to pay
24:30you in advance. I'd like to pay you for
24:322 hours worth of time and I'm going to
24:34pay you to do a trial project. If you
24:35agree, send me your PayPal address or
24:37whatever payment portal is applicable
24:38for that country. You send me your
24:40PayPal. I pay you and and whatever it
24:42is. If I'm in the Philippines, it's 20
24:43bucks. If I'm in the States, it's $100.
24:45It's something that would make people
24:46feel like, okay, I'm not wasting 2
24:48hours, right? It's not going to make
24:49anybody rich, but it takes the pressure
24:51off. I send you the $100. I don't follow
24:53up. And then I wait to see who comes
24:56back to me. And sometimes people will
24:57ghost you for $100 or in the Philippines
24:5920. And now I get to see who's not
25:01integrous, who's a procrastinator, who
25:03forgets to do things. Sometimes I'll
25:04have people message me, you know, a
25:06month later, hey, you sent me money and
25:08never sent me the job. And I'm like, you
25:09don't say, glad you don't work for me.
25:11Once you follow up saying, hey, where's
25:13the job? Then I send you the trial
25:15project. The trial project is built very
25:17specifically around the role I want to
25:19hire you for. And I make sure that it's
25:20complex. So if I'm hiring a software
25:22engineer, I have a trial project related
25:24to software. I don't need to know how to
25:26do software in order to come up with a
25:27trial project to do software, right? You
25:28can go to GitHub, talk to an expert, go
25:30to Upwork and have somebody design it
25:31for you. Go to chat GPT and prompt it
25:34out of it. Coming up with trial
25:35projects, they're actually there's
25:37companies that just do this. They have
25:38trial projects available for a bunch of
25:40different proficiencies. I send you the
25:42project, but the project is secondary to
25:43how we work together. I'll do things
25:44like, hey, you need to log into this
25:46portal to download the resources. I'll
25:48send you a login, the login name, and
25:50the password. And they'll say, "David,
25:52now that you've seen the scope of work,
25:53when do you think you have this done
25:54by?" Let's say it's Monday. When I sent
25:55it to you, told me it's going to be done
25:56on Friday. I send you the wrong
25:58password. So now you don't know this,
26:00but you don't have all the resources
26:02because when you go to log into that
26:03portal, the username and password are
26:04wrong. They're not going to work. And I
26:06wait to see who sends me a frantic email
26:07Thursday night saying, "The password
26:08doesn't work. The password doesn't work.
26:10Did you check the resources available?
26:11Did you download everything? Did you
26:12make sure you had all the stuff that you
26:13needed in order to do the job before
26:14quoting me at turnaround time? Can you
26:16manage expectations? Can you
26:17communicate?" by the time you get to the
26:19bottom of the and I have hundreds of fly
26:20traps, hundreds of them. For sales
26:22roles, I'll schedule calls with people
26:24and cancel on them last minute or just
26:25not show. For client management roles,
26:27I'll do the same thing because I want to
26:28know you're going to be on the phone
26:29with my clients. Do you lose your
26:31temper? Do you follow up? Are you
26:33cordial when you do that? How is it, you
26:35know, it's really uncomfortable when
26:36somebody doesn't show up for a call? How
26:37do you deal with that? You know, like
26:38I've had somebody send me an email with
26:40just a question mark. Not going to hire
26:42you and put you in front of my clients.
26:44What a passive aggressive thing to do.
26:45You know, it needs to be like, "Hey,
26:46David, I'm sure you probably forgot, but
26:47we had a time scheduled. I'm available
26:49now, but if you want to reset, you know
26:50what I mean? Like, I want to know that
26:51you can do those things as a human. Fly
26:53traps, hundreds of fly traps, and
26:54because I'm paying 10% more than the
26:56high water mark, people are willing to
26:57jump through these hoops." By the time
26:59somebody comes all the way to the
27:00bottom, delivers a trial project, I look
27:02at the project, make sure it's something
27:03that I I think is reasonable or
27:04feasible. If I don't know how to gauge
27:06it, I have a subject matter expert who
27:07can, and then it's just hire who you
27:09like and who's a culture fit. It's not
27:11uncommon at all for me to hire two or
27:12three people when especially if I'm in a
27:14business that has a growth path because
27:16I actually like when people come in with
27:17peers. I think they run faster. But man,
27:20like when you do that, you get peak
27:22performers. You get 1enters and their
27:26yield again, it's not 10 or 20 or 30%
27:29more than the average. It's 10 times. My
27:32first EA became my director of
27:33automations. My second EA became my
27:34director of social. My third EA became
27:36my CTO. Managed my entire exit is now my
27:38best friend and my business partner. I
27:39made the kid a millionaire. He was a kid
27:41in going to Poland. He's Ukrainian
27:43national. He I he started his getting
27:45$1,200 a month. When Russia attacked
27:48Ukraine, I filed for an H-1B. I got him
27:49over here with his wife and his son,
27:50Lev, who's now a US citizen born here.
27:53And his name's Ivonne. And he owns 50%
27:55of Pareto Talent, which is our staffing
27:56agency, which just hit a million dollars
27:57in gross revenue, and owns I don't know,
28:00he has small slices of equity in a half
28:02dozen other of my portfolio businesses,
28:04but he's the best employer I've ever had
28:05in my entire life. And he runs through
28:06walls. He just builds from the
28:07ground up. And I don't I sent him a two
28:09and a half minute voice message that
28:11made me $250,000. I can tell that story
28:13if you have any interest, but I've
28:14talked too long, David. Forgive me.
28:17No, first of all, I love the fly traps.
28:20It's a very similar process and you to
28:23our our scrimmages, things that we do,
28:25the workouts, but I love the way you've
28:29come up with them. They're simple,
28:30they're straightforward. there a little
28:31bit of game playing, but I think that
28:34your approach is is sincere.
28:37And when you're going to cast a net that
28:40broad Mhm. you need to throw them into a
28:43funnel. Yep. Just like you said. And the
28:45way you've got a systematic approach to
28:47doing that and it really gets you where
28:50you want to go. I mean, I'm looking at a
28:52candidate for a client right now who's
28:57great in many ways, but he would he
28:59would fail that funnel. Yeah, he would
29:02fail in the formatting and the way he
29:03responded and how quickly he responded
29:05and following instructions, but very
29:08interesting. She was the fly trap for
29:10the role. You know, when I was a Google
29:12ad specialist, a good Google ad
29:14specialist is not a people person. You
29:16know, they're engineers. They're they're
29:18caved dwelling, nocturnal,
29:19overcaffeinated, late night, can't wake
29:21up early, don't want to talk to you. The
29:23answer to everything is no. You know
29:25what I mean? So like you modify your
29:26funnel according to the the personality
29:28type you're hiring for, not according to
29:31if it's not important that they format
29:32emails, right? Don't make that the
29:34flight trap, right? You just want to
29:35make make the filter applicable to the
29:37role. Yeah. Very interesting. And so
29:41then you've got these people and I'm
29:45thinking of where I want to go next. So
29:48Oh, by the way, I had a question. One of
29:50your things you mentioned on your list
29:52was what's the hourglass of Nishi?
29:55Oh, that's a fun. It's a complete
29:57departure and it's one of I know but I
29:59have never heard the phrase I've never
30:00heard that before. I'm like what is
30:02that? So we we tell entrepreneurs
30:05especially young people young men and
30:06women that want to get into business the
30:08advice that they get which I think is
30:09absurd is niche niche down choose a
30:12niche. Alex Ramosi calls it being niche
30:14slap. I think it's absurd advice.
30:17Niching, of course, is is the path to
30:19efficiency and monetization. Obviously,
30:21I'm not arguing that. But to choose a
30:23niche when you get started, it's like
30:25walking out into your backyard saying,
30:27"I'm going to drill for oil here." It's
30:29such an arbitrary decision based on no
30:31data, no historic anything pedigree. So,
30:34what I tell people is start broad.
30:36Starting broad is stupid. We know that.
30:38But there's no way for you to get into
30:40any industry or any business with
30:42arbitrary specificity. So like my first
30:45business that really exploded was
30:47Solutions 8. Solutions 8 was a
30:49fullfunnel marketing agency. We called
30:50it Solutions 8 because we had eight core
30:52service offerings. We were doing web and
30:54software and SEO and graphic design and
30:56video production and and and and like it
30:58was horrible. We did all of this stuff
31:00and we did it for everybody. And so what
31:02happens? You make no money. It's
31:04stressful. It's hard. But I got to try
31:07all those services out. What am I good
31:09at? What am I not? What do I like? What
31:10do I don't? What's fun? What's not? I
31:12got to try all the industries out. Who
31:14do I like serving? Who do I like working
31:15with? Who do I hate working with? Who
31:17and as I start to cut services off and
31:18cut industries off, you begin to taper
31:20down. Yeah, just like an hourglass. So,
31:23you start broad and you taper taper
31:24taper taper. And when you reach the
31:25center of the hourglass, it means that
31:27you found an apex of efficiency. So,
31:29what I ended up finding, and there's
31:30three levels of analysis for niching.
31:32There's a 100 million, but there's three
31:34that I pay attention to. The first level
31:36is the x-axis. It's your service. What
31:38are you offering? What are the tools in
31:39your tool belt? Cuz if you walk into a
31:41house and you say, "I'm a handyman. I
31:43have all these tools. I can do anything.
31:44What do you want me to do? People are
31:45like, I you know, my my door doesn't
31:49close, right? Maybe you could fix that.
31:50But they don't really know. But if you
31:51walk into a house and you say, I build
31:53birdhouses,
31:54and they're like, oh, I don't need a
31:56birdhouse. Great. Glad we had this talk.
31:58Let me move on. Or, oh, thank god you're
32:00here. I've always wanted a birdhouse. Or
32:01a treehouse or an underground bunker or
32:02whatever. So, what's your service?
32:04X-axis, Yaxis. Who do you do that
32:07service for? I help single moms, kids
32:10with autisms, monatory schools, dry
32:12cleaners, military veterans, doesn't
32:14matter. X-axis service, Y-axis industry,
32:17Z-axis, geography, location. Where do
32:19you do that? As you down come down to
32:21the hourglass, the apex is where you
32:23find profitability. So solutions a 8
32:26figureure exit, which is not
32:28insignificant, was built on a company
32:30that only ran Google ads. That's not
32:32marketing, that's not digital marketing,
32:34that's not traffic, that's not paid
32:36traffic. It's Google ads. It's like, you
32:38know, initi.
32:41It's the ultimate niche, niche, niche,
32:43whatever. Now, if I wanted to, I could
32:46have done Google ads for dentists or
32:48Google ads for I didn't need to because
32:50I found an apex of profitability. And
32:52the reason it's an hourglass is because
32:55once I figured out Google ads, what's
32:58interesting is then you can branch back
33:00out. So, at the very top of my funnel,
33:02at the top of the hourglass, I was
33:03offering web design, for instance, and I
33:04was horrible at it because I was
33:05building websites for everybody. It
33:07didn't matter who they were. On the
33:09bottom half of the hourglass, if I start
33:11offering websites, I'm offering it
33:13through the paradigm of Google Ads
33:14agency. Now, I know how to build an a
33:17website for somebody who needs Google
33:18ads because I know that the conversion
33:20tracking is different, that the the
33:21speed is one of the most important
33:22things. Mobile optimization is really
33:23important because 60% of your traffic is
33:25going to be mobile, etc., etc., etc. So,
33:28I get to branch back out, offer all
33:29those same services, but offer them
33:31through a lens of an efficiency that is
33:34my niche. And you come to me for Google
33:36ads. I'm like, "Dude, I can't run your
33:37ads because your website's garbage. Let
33:38me build your website." Or, "Let me talk
33:40to you about how social media
33:41contributes to Google Ads." Or, "Let me
33:42talk to you about, etc., etc., etc.,
33:43etc." So, that's the hourglass of
33:44niching. You start broad, which is a
33:47horrible idea, but you're you're making
33:49the wrong decision for the right
33:50reasons. You taper down, find
33:51efficiency, and then you can branch back
33:53out if you want to. I just sold, you
33:55know, once we got to where we were at
33:5640% margins, somebody I had 60
33:58unsolicited offers and I decided I'm
34:00cashing the check and I'm getting out of
34:02here. Yeah. Well, you don't make any
34:04money till you cash the check. Yeah. But
34:06I now you brought up a couple things
34:07where you maybe more than a couple where
34:10you've got the funnel. So Kasen, you are
34:14obviously very successful, energetic,
34:17sharp, but how do you use that funnel or
34:21another approach to choose your
34:23priorities? Because you've obviously got
34:25opportunities,
34:27man. Yeah. You know, more than you can
34:30handle. Not well, David. I I grabbed
34:35with both hands. I've got way too much
34:37going on. And you know, the thing that's
34:38really weird, it's so funny to say this.
34:41It used to be I'd start 10 things and
34:43then nine would fail miserably and I'd
34:45be left with one and I would chase that
34:46rabbit and then that's the way I made my
34:48decisions. Now I start 10 things and
34:50they all work and then I get pulled in a
34:53bunch of different directions and I
34:54haven't done a very good job really
34:56defining my buy box. I I was speaking to
34:58a friend who's kind of an adviser
35:00recently and I said, you know, if
35:02something's not at least a decillion
35:04dollar opportunity, I really should not
35:06be doing it. So for instance the
35:08business I just mentioned architects
35:10which helps people who have go high
35:11level that's never going to be a
35:13decision you know I I bet you it's a
35:15couple million that to the bottom line
35:17which is okay and early stage in my
35:20career I'd have killed for that right
35:21now it's a distraction so I think I
35:24think what I really should be doing to
35:26be honest with you because I have way
35:27too many irons in the fire is if
35:28something's not a deck a million net net
35:31then I'm not going to do it and then
35:32once I've really cracked that code then
35:34it should be 100 million and once I've
35:35cracked that code then it should be a
35:36billion
35:37And I think the issue I've run into, you
35:39know, I was raised by a blind single
35:40mother on social security disability in
35:42Albuquerque, New Mexico. I'm a welfare
35:43baby. And when you give poor people
35:45money, one, we turn into investors. Two,
35:47we still feel poor. And I have a very
35:50difficult time saying no to opportunity.
35:52So when somebody comes to me or when I
35:53see something and I'm like, I can make
35:56that make money. I almost can't help
35:58myself. Which is why I'm in the position
36:00I'm in, which is I have all these
36:02businesses. The only saving grace is I'm
36:04really good at finding really good
36:05people. So architects run by somebody
36:07else. AEO run by somebody else.
36:08Syndications.com run by somebody else.
36:10Seed oil.com which I own with a friend.
36:12I'm hiring. The gal actually starts
36:14Monday. So I'm good at finding these
36:15people but even then they take up brain
36:17space. They take you know my you should
36:19see my calendar dude. Just back to back
36:20to back to back to back to back to back.
36:22So I need to start learning to say no.
36:25That's what I need to do. Yeah. Or you
36:28need to consider taking the ones that
36:31are the smaller opportunities or maybe
36:33that aren't as interesting and finding a
36:36trusted individual. Yeah. You can just
36:39lay them off in a group to that person.
36:41Yeah. I I have an incubator called 3X
36:43Freedom. We meet every Friday and people
36:45pay me five grand a year and 5% of
36:47whatever they build and they show up and
36:48I kick them opportunities. So it's
36:50exactly what you're talking about. And
36:51as soon as it starts working, I'm going
36:52to increase the price. But we just we
36:54right before this call I was on my
36:55incubator call and it's going amazing
36:57man cuz I you know I do I have all these
36:59ideas and I have I once you achieve a
37:01certain level of success people throw
37:02opportunities at you. Oh yeah. And so
37:06now I've got this incubator that I can
37:08push to and say hey y'all if anybody
37:09wants to take this and run with it. You
37:11know my real goal is to be in a position
37:13where I'm taking more than 5%. But right
37:15now because it's conceptual I'm still
37:16figuring it out. Five and five feels
37:18fair. Yeah. And it may not be going out
37:21to an incubator group, but you've got
37:23like Warren Buffett had his his
37:25right-hand man,
37:27Charlie Munger, I think it is. Yeah. So,
37:31it sounds like one option is that you
37:35find that trusted individual
37:37who you know would would never betray
37:40you in any way. But, you know, you could
37:43say, you know, here's this one, here's
37:46this three, here's this five or
37:47whatever. I need to clear my brain. And
37:48I need to clear my calendar. Take these
37:51babies. We'll talk about them once a
37:52month. Same thing. You get the right
37:55person in that driver's seat. It all
37:57shakes people, doesn't it? Yeah, it
37:59really does. It really does. And people
38:01are hard right now. And can you go back
38:03to that your mom's situation? Yeah. And
38:06how you grew up in poverty because for a
38:08lot of people getting out of poverty,
38:10the poverty mindset is I mean my I'm
38:14much older than you obviously. the my
38:16grandparents grew up in the depression.
38:18Yeah. So my grand my two grandfathers
38:21they were very different but they were
38:23frugal. They were you know they earned
38:26more money but they didn't spend that
38:28money or when they spent it they spent
38:29it very carefully. I find that a lot of
38:31people when they advance in income they
38:34start spending more. So your experience
38:37I mean if you had to think of one two
38:40three no more than three but like the
38:43major lessons you learned from the way
38:45you grew up sounds like your mother was
38:47a saint but what did you and maybe she
38:51wasn't but she was awesome you know you
38:54think about the monastery schools or
38:55something but it's like what learning
38:57tip could you give to others at this
39:01time when so many people are wrapped up
39:03in social media and a victim mental
39:06ality and they're angry. They feel
39:10entitled
39:12instead of grateful.
39:14I have a strong opinion that will get me
39:16cancelled, but we'll just play this
39:17game, David, and we'll see how well we
39:19go.
39:20I call us welfare babies. It wasn't
39:22technically welfare. My mother was a
39:24nurse
39:25who went blind. So, she was prematurely
39:28born, always been blind in her right
39:30eye, and over time, her left eye visual
39:32field closed. But until she went blind,
39:34she worked as a nurse. As a nurse, she
39:36paid into social security. And when she
39:38went blind, she received social
39:40security. So, I mean, is that welfare?
39:43No, not technically from a nomenclature
39:44perspective, but for all intents and
39:46purposes, it's a social program that
39:48keeps people who are at risk safe. This
39:51is why I bring it up. I don't think
39:54there's much of a difference between
39:55that and a trust fund baby, right? like
39:58a trust fund baby gets cared for, fed,
40:01brought up, taken care of. And I lived
40:04in this amazing country where everybody
40:06got together and said, "Oh, when
40:07something bad happens, take care of
40:08those people." And so it's my mom, me,
40:10my little brother. And even the word
40:13poverty is interesting because it's
40:14like, well, impoverished by what level?
40:17Like in comparison to our peers, sure,
40:20we're probably bottom 5%, I would
40:22imagine. But we had air conditioning. We
40:25had clean water which is top 10% of the
40:28world top point 0.1%
40:31of humanity on an anthropological scale.
40:34So like we had everything we know we
40:37were relatively safe. We grew I grew up
40:39in gangland New Mexico and even then
40:42the building blocks for anything I
40:43wanted to build were there. Now was
40:45there trauma associated with my
40:47upbringing? Yeah. And I wouldn't
40:48downplay that. And in so many ways, I
40:53feel like that's sort of what kind of
40:54equipped me to do it. You know, I've
40:55worked 80 hours a week for 20 years. And
40:57so, so if I can ask, at what age, how
41:00old were you when your mom went blind?
41:0312. 12. Okay. My parents split up at
41:06seven. Pop jumped ship, came back later,
41:08didn't know him very well, but mom mom's
41:10single mom from seven. Uh my little
41:13brother's four years younger, so seven
41:14and three. Her eyes are getting worse
41:16and worse. She stopped being able to be
41:17a nurse. She started working at a call
41:19center. Working at the call center
41:20exacerbated the situation. By 12, she's
41:22completely blind. But it was a it was a
41:24degressive situation. Yeah. Yeah. And
41:26then so at at 12 years old, even though
41:29you had some safety net from social
41:32security, which you know that's what the
41:35system is designed to do, right? And I'm
41:38so glad it came through. It's being
41:40abused in so many ways, but I'm so glad
41:43that that worked for you. So kudos to
41:45the system in that case. So then at 12
41:49it sounds like maybe I don't know
41:51whether it was then or later but you had
41:54some I mean you had character you had
41:57good character. I I was a thief at 16 17
42:0118 I got in a lot of trouble man. I my
42:03yeah I I went the wrong way first you
42:06know and I think I as a kid I did well.
42:08I took care of my little brother until I
42:11didn't but you know I I took care of my
42:13mom the best I could. But I was driving
42:14at like 13 and change cuz New Mexico has
42:16a disability permit. So I was like I was
42:19the one and I did get I was really I was
42:22very mad. So it started just with like
42:25vandalism like if somebody would hurt me
42:27or pick on me at school which happened a
42:29lot. I got beat up a lot. My favorite
42:31thing to do is to slash tires. I'd go
42:32late at night and I'd slash every tire
42:34in the driveway. And that led to
42:37breaking into cars and just doing things
42:38that kids angry kids do. And I ended up
42:41getting into not at I mean in retrospect
42:44at at 40 years old now that I have two
42:46children if I think about my children
42:47doing that I'm like oh my god I don't
42:49know how I didn't die but I hung out
42:51with the wrong people and I was in not a
42:53great circumstance or situation and I
42:55called my father who again I didn't have
42:57a great relationship with but uh he
42:58lived in Scottdale and I said hey in
43:01this environment and he pulled me out of
43:03it. So I sort of lucked out and that was
43:06the the inflection point. And I go from
43:07Albuquerque, New Mexico. If you ever
43:09been to Albuquerque, it's the armpit of
43:10America. It's Breaking Bad's
43:11documentary. It's horrible. I I went
43:13there for a soccer term one time and I
43:15thought I thought New Mexico was
43:17supposed to be nice. No, it's why they
43:19chose nuclear testing. Like there's
43:20nothing that should make it has the
43:22highest teen gang involvement rate in
43:23the nation. Everybody else had to go
43:24through DARE. We had to go through
43:25great, which is gang resistance
43:27education and training. It's Yeah. UNM
43:29has the highest rape rate of any
43:31university camp. One of the highest
43:33autotheft, which part of that was my
43:35fault. like it's just this horrible,
43:37horrible place. So, I get into a bunch
43:39of trouble. My brother, who followed in
43:40my footsteps, he didn't escape it quite
43:44unscathed. He did six years on a
43:46fouryard. He's a convict. He's done two
43:48bids. He's full, he's out now, fully
43:51rehabilitated, brilliant, brilliant guy
43:52at 160 IQ or something. Owns the largest
43:54rug store in Arizona. Hyper successful.
43:56But he went like he kind of continued on
43:58that path because he started earlier
44:00than I did. And I just had this, you
44:02know, talk about two blessings. One is
44:05have being born in a country where we
44:06were cared for to whatever degree we
44:07were cared for. And two was all of a
44:09sudden to go from Albuquerque to
44:10Scottsdale. You know, my dad wasn't
44:12wealthy, but he sold he sold rugs. He
44:14sold these hand knotted rugs that he
44:16would import. He's Pakistani. My mom's
44:18white. My dad's Pakistani. So, I'm
44:20surrounded by like wealth and opulence.
44:23And I just saw this whole other way to
44:25be. And so, I just I completely flipped.
44:27It's, you know, I'm something of a turn
44:29coat if you think about it. I changed
44:30the way that I spoke, the way that I
44:31walked, the way that I dressed and I
44:33just started to play this North
44:34Scottdale part, but with some varying
44:37degrees of success in certain instances
44:40and I started a business at 20 years old
44:43and I lucked out again. I met a man,
44:45he's my business mentor to this day. His
44:46name is Greg Smith. He wrote a book
44:47called No Lock Doors. Brilliant,
44:49brilliant human. Bought and sold 30, 40
44:50banks, bought and sold Sun Country
44:52airlines twice. And he ended up get
44:54getting me this gig building software
44:56for the bank he was running at the time.
44:58He was the COO of the largest privately
45:00owned bank in the country. I think then
45:02they're the bank that brought down
45:02Lehman Brothers during the collapse. And
45:05so I'm I'm all of a sudden I'm making
45:07money at 20 and I did exactly what you
45:09said like when you give poor people
45:10money. I bought the house on the hill
45:12and I bought the idiot's car at 20 years
45:14old. I bought this massive house and I'm
45:16always picking up the check and I think
45:17I'm rich cuz I'm like I'm making you
45:19know cash flow to a poor person. It's
45:20like are you kidding me? This is
45:21amazing. Yeah. Yeah. In two years houses
45:26foreclosed on cars repossessed. I'm
45:28multi6 figures in debt because when you
45:30make money, they also give you credit
45:31and I don't know how to use it. So, I
45:32just ran the cards and the the 08
45:34collapse started in ' 07 for me because
45:37that's when the bank was the FDI rolled
45:39up in their black SUVs and kicked down
45:40the bank doors. And so, now my client
45:41goes away. All these receivables I had,
45:44you know, dry up. My I owe a bunch of
45:46money to developers that thank God I was
45:47able to pay. I never I never missed
45:49payroll. And at 22 years old, I'm poor
45:51again. And I'm living in this apartment
45:53that gave me 3 months free if I sign an
45:5518-month lease. It's the only reason I
45:57wasn't homeless. My dad's business
45:58failed. He moved to Minneapolis to
46:00figure it out. My brother at the time is
46:01a drug addict and I live in this heroin
46:03den with him and his girlfriend and they
46:05just stay in their room and do whatever
46:07they do. And I'm and I'm supremely
46:09unemployable. I remember the lowest
46:11point of my life was this Target that
46:13was behind my the where we were living
46:15at the time. I went to Target and I
46:17applied to be a dock worker to unload
46:19trucks at 4 a.m. And I was not qualified
46:22to unload trucks at 4 cuz I have no no
46:24education. I don't really have a high
46:25school education, which is a fun story.
46:27And so I just started like grinding and
46:29that was the best thing that ever
46:30happened to me cuz it taught me what
46:31money really is, you know, like and how
46:33important it is. And especially from an
46:36entrepreneurial perspective, just just
46:37being liquid, you know, and so now I'm
46:40I've produced a duck a million dollar
46:41net worth. I drive a 40-y old Honda. I
46:42live in a little beaver cleaver home. I
46:44It's nice. My kids are safe. They go to
46:46private schools. I spend money on
46:47organic food. I spend where I'm supposed
46:48to. But like I don't need all my friends
46:50in the marketing space, you know, San
46:52Diego beach houses and Ferraris and
46:53Lamborghinis and I just don't see the
46:56point. I'll show you my tax returns. I'm
46:58like, look, I'm actually rich. You
46:59should listen to what it is that I'm
47:00saying, but I'm not going to spend that.
47:01I'd rather I'd rather have the money,
47:02you know, and and I'm getting a little
47:04more flexible as time goes on. Like I
47:07just just just started upgrading my
47:09airfare, you know, to get the extra leg
47:12room cuz I'm 6'4. So, I just started,
47:14you know, I'll get the guacamole at
47:16Chipotle, but I I still think it's
47:19funny. My wife and I share a guacamole
47:21at Chipotle from It's like three bucks
47:24for this guacamole. Same. And I have
47:27that kind of money now. So,
47:30you know, my grandfather MC, the one on
47:32my mom's side, he was very family
47:35oriented. He would be very frugal. He
47:38would buy $10 plastic dress shoes
47:40through the mail, even when he was worth
47:42millions.
47:43And he would straighten out bent nails
47:45when we were working in his yard so he
47:46could reuse the nails. Yeah. And then he
47:48would spend 100 grand, which was a lot
47:50of money back in the day, to take 25 of
47:53family members to Hawaii for like two
47:54weeks. Yeah. And you know, it's just
47:56choosing where to spend. So Kasum, I
48:01know you have no time. We have limited
48:02time. Why don't we land this for this
48:06moment? And you're welcome to come back
48:08anytime. I mean, I'd be happy to talk to
48:10you outside of this, but I think you're
48:13doing great stuff. I love your brain. I
48:15appreciate I love your heart. Thank you.
48:17You know, really do. You're a a change
48:20agent in a positive way. So, and I I
48:23love your story and I just got a taste
48:25of it. So, thanks, man. Where do you
48:28want to end this? Do you want to direct
48:30people to one of your websites? Do you
48:33want to give them some advice? You want
48:35to do both? Where do you want to go?
48:37Yeah, I wrote a book. It's my life's
48:38work in a book. I wrote every word. It's
48:40not AI drafted. They can have it for
48:43free. It's the hirebook.com. It's my
48:45entire hiring framework in a book with
48:46resources, templates, downloads, etc. My
48:49goal in life is to help people in
48:50emerging nations achieve meaningful
48:52work. And so, if I can help as many
48:53people, employ as many folks, cuz the
48:56rest of the world doesn't have the
48:58safety net I had. You know, I'm pretty
49:00lucky. And so, and there's an
49:02unbelievable pool of potent talent.
49:05Latin America, East Asia, Eastern
49:06Europe, North Africa, like it's unreal
49:09what's available and accessible from an
49:10entrepreneurial perspective. And so if
49:12you're having a hard time finding talent
49:14because you can't compete domestically,
49:15look abroad and and I'll teach you how
49:17to do that. The hirebook.com.
49:19That's awesome. Yeah. And I have found
49:21that too that with the managed service
49:23providers that I'm working with, some of
49:25the ones that are farther along, they're
49:27doing a blended workforce. They've got
49:29people in the US where they need certain
49:31expertise or they need to be on site,
49:33right? And then they got they've got
49:35people in Philippines, India. I've got
49:37two people. I've got four people
49:39actually in Ecuador. Yeah. That's that
49:42work with me. That is my favorite right
49:44now for a bunch of reasons we could talk
49:45about on another episode. Yeah. Yeah. So
49:48maybe you come back. You'd be welcome
49:50to. This was this was great. Thank you
49:52very much for being on the show. Thanks
49:53for having me, David. I appreciate you.
49:55Appreciate you.
49:58[Music]
50:10[Music]

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