I Didnt Know What the Sky Looked Like Any More Ricky Jackson Exonerated After 39 Years in Jail — Transcript

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1. 0:00this is democracy Now democracynow.org
2. 0:02the Warren peace report I'm Amy Goodman
3. 0:04with Juan Gonzalez an Ohio man has been
4. 0:07freed from prison after spending 39
5. 0:10years behind bars for a crime he didn't
6. 0:12commit Ricky Jackson a 59-year-old
7. 0:15African American man had been jailed
8. 0:17since
9. 0:181975 on a murder conviction the
10. 0:21prosecution's case was based on the
11. 0:23testimony of a 13-year-old witness after
12. 0:26a 2011 investigation the witness
13. 0:28recanted his test saying he had
14. 0:31implicated Jackson and two others under
15. 0:33police coercion the witness Eddie Vernon
16. 0:36said police had fed him the story and
17. 0:37threatened him with the arrest of his
18. 0:39parents if he didn't cooperate on Friday
19. 0:42Ricky Jackson was freed after
20. 0:44prosecutors dropped the case how do it
21. 0:47feel it's extraordinary I'm needless to
22. 0:50say you know words can't express how I
23. 0:53feel right now I'm just glad to be out
24. 0:55glad to be a free man what are you going
25. 0:56to do where are you going to go wow I
26. 0:58mean you know you sit in prison for so
27. 1:01long you think about this day but when
28. 1:03it actually comes you don't know what
29. 1:04you you just want to do something you
30. 1:06know besides what you've been doing for
31. 1:0839 years okay when you heard the judge
32. 1:11say an hour ago you're a free man
33. 1:14goodbye talk about what you were feeling
34. 1:16what was going on that we couldn't see I
35. 1:18mean it was it was like an emotional
36. 1:20roller coaster you know it's just I mean
37. 1:22the English language doesn't fit what
38. 1:25I'm feeling right now you know it's just
39. 1:27I mean I'm just on the emotional high
40. 1:29right now with nearly four decades
41. 1:32wrongfully Behind Bars Jackson's the
42. 1:35longest held us prisoner to be
43. 1:37exonerated another defendant in the case
44. 1:39who serves slightly less time Wy
45. 1:41Bridgeman has also been released for
46. 1:43more we go to Cincinnati Ohio where
47. 1:46we're joined by Ricky Jackson and his
48. 1:48lawyer Brian how a staff attorney with
49. 1:50the Ohio Innocence Project Ricky and
50. 1:52Brian welcome to democracy Now Ricky
51. 1:54Jackson how does it feel to be
52. 1:58free good morning uh um I'm still
53. 2:01getting used to it you know it it's
54. 2:03almost been a week and uh I'm still
55. 2:06getting adjusted and acclimated to being
56. 2:08out here you know and not being inside
57. 2:10those closed walls you know and closed
58. 2:15walls and during all those years that
59. 2:18you were uh Behind Bars did you ever
60. 2:21lose a hope or expectation that you
61. 2:24would finally be exonerated could you
62. 2:26talk tell us about the uh uh the
63. 2:29emotional
64. 2:30trials you went through all those all
65. 2:32that
66. 2:33time well I said like I said previously
67. 2:37it's it's constantly a battle trying to
68. 2:39stay positive and some days you get to
69. 2:42the point where you don't think you're
70. 2:44going to make it and you know it's just
71. 2:47a up and down type situation you know
72. 2:49you always up and down you know and uh
73. 2:53but to answer your question there were
74. 2:55times when I thought you know this is it
75. 2:57for me I'm not you know this is it Ricky
76. 3:00tell us your story uh what happened 40
77. 3:03years ago and how it was that a
78. 3:0513-year-old child uh was the key witness
79. 3:08against you who now very ill 40 years
80. 3:12later wanted to come
81. 3:16clean uh well the case happened in
82. 3:201975 I was uh 18 years old at the time
83. 3:24and uh there was a neighborhood store
84. 3:26that was robbed by three asants and uh
85. 3:30um somehow Edward Veron became involved
86. 3:33in the case apparently he went to the
87. 3:36police and told them that he was a
88. 3:38witness and that he uh eventually
89. 3:42identified myself Ronnie Bridgeman and
90. 3:44Wy Bridgeman as the as
91. 3:47salance um a couple of days later we
92. 3:49were arrested taken downtown in rign
93. 3:52held before a lineup and um we weren't
94. 3:56picked out in the lineup but unbeknown
95. 3:58to us we didn't know this we thought we
96. 4:00were you know everything was okay nobody
97. 4:02came out and said that you guys are
98. 4:05being charged or anything so we assumed
99. 4:08we was getting our uh obligatory phone
100. 4:11call after you arrested and um we
101. 4:14thought we were going home but that
102. 4:16didn't turn out to be the case and a few
103. 4:19months later we all went on trial we
104. 4:21were charged with uh capital
105. 4:23crimes and uh subsequently we all lost
106. 4:26our uh
107. 4:28trials we were sent to death row we were
108. 4:31sentenced to died in a high electric
109. 4:32chair we were all s sent to death row
110. 4:36where we stayed and lingered and
111. 4:38wondered and worried for two and a half
112. 4:44years now there was a um I'm sorry go
113. 4:50ahead no I was just
114. 4:52um at that time there was a there was a
115. 4:55lot of debate about the Ohio death
116. 4:57penalty so as it turned out they
117. 5:01um they nullified the death penalty at
118. 5:03that time and everybody back there was
119. 5:06given a life sentence in
120. 5:10prison now there was a period of time uh
121. 5:13when you were offered uh the possibility
122. 5:17of of parole could you talk about that
123. 5:19and and uh and your insistence on your
124. 5:23innocence yes sir um uh my attorney here
125. 5:26Mr uh Brian how um he came to me one day
126. 5:30and he said listen Ricky um this is the
127. 5:34situation uh there's a deal on the table
128. 5:37you can walk out of here now a free
129. 5:40man if you'll plead guilty to the
130. 5:43charges you're presently incarcerated
131. 5:46for I mean and I have to admit that it
132. 5:48was a tempting offer at that time I've
133. 5:50been in prison so long I didn't I didn't
134. 5:53even know what the sky look like
135. 5:55anymore but you know it was just
136. 5:57something inside of me that said
137. 6:00you can't do this you know you've gone
138. 6:02too long you struggled too hard you
139. 6:06can't do this you're innocent you know
140. 6:10don't admit this something you didn't do
141. 6:12you're innocent and that was the
142. 6:14decision I made it was the right
143. 6:16decision was and really it was the only
144. 6:18decision that I could have made and
145. 6:20Brian how could you talk about the the
146. 6:23process of exonerating Ricky Jack uh the
147. 6:27role of uh some initial reporting on the
148. 6:31case in a in a local newspaper and then
149. 6:33the Innocence Project's involvement and
150. 6:36the role of two people who at that time
151. 6:38were school children on a bus uh in uh
152. 6:42in terms of being able to get him
153. 6:45exonerated yes uh thanks Juan I mean
154. 6:47this this case was really literally
155. 6:49years in the making um you know when
156. 6:52when uh the Ohio inance project first
157. 6:54got this case it was before Adon had
158. 6:56come forward and recanted uh there were
159. 6:58students there that that had spoken with
160. 7:00Ricky uh that strongly and sincerely
161. 7:02believed in his innocence uh that were
162. 7:04passionate about the case and that's
163. 7:05what what kept things going uh around uh
164. 7:08three or four years ago there was some
165. 7:10really fantastic investigative
166. 7:11journalism done by Kyle Swinson at the
167. 7:13Cleveland Scene Magazine um he continued
168. 7:16to find things that that suggested maybe
169. 7:18that there was something wrong with the
170. 7:19trial back in 1975 inconsistencies and
171. 7:21adver story and and uh leads that the
172. 7:24police had towards other people uh that
173. 7:26continued until eventually in 2013 um Ed
174. 7:30Vernon on on in in a hospital room uh
175. 7:32confessed to his Pastor that that he had
176. 7:34lied in 1975 and had carried that weight
177. 7:36with him for uh uh you know over 35 36
178. 7:39years at that point and his Pastor
179. 7:42encouraged him to come forward to the
180. 7:43Innocence Project uh we continue to work
181. 7:46on the case I mean we we found uh uh
182. 7:49school children who were with Ed Vernon
183. 7:51on a school bus when the shooting
184. 7:52happened uh even as as recently as a
185. 7:55week before the hearing um so you know I
186. 7:57mean this is has just been
187. 8:00uh such an effort by so many different
188. 8:01people law students over a dozen law
189. 8:03students with the the University of
190. 8:05Cincinnati College of Law uh the
191. 8:06attorney on the case prior to to me
192. 8:08Carrie Wood so many people have put a
193. 8:10lot of work into this case and it's just
194. 8:12really something special uh to to to be
195. 8:14sitting next to Ricky here today uh it's
196. 8:16not something that we would have uh
197. 8:18dreamed as possible a few weeks ago
198. 8:20Ricky I wanted to go back to that 2011
199. 8:23article published by the Cleveland Scene
200. 8:25that laid out the weakness in the case
201. 8:27against you the article notes you were
202. 8:29convicted based on this testimony of a
203. 8:3113-year-old boy with poor eyesight and
204. 8:33conflicting stories Eddie Vernon now a
205. 8:36grown man has since filed an affidavit
206. 8:38admitting he never saw the murder also
207. 8:40claims he was threatened by police into
208. 8:42identifying you as one of the murderers
209. 8:44Vernon told the Cleveland Scene quote
210. 8:46the detective said that I was too young
211. 8:48to go to jail but he would arrest my
212. 8:50parents for perjury because I was
213. 8:52backing out my mom was sick at that time
214. 8:54and that really scared me I didn't want
215. 8:56my parents to get in trouble over this
216. 8:59so Ricky Jackson um now you are free uh
217. 9:05what are your plans for
218. 9:09Thanksgiving um I want to be with some
219. 9:11good people um here in Cincinnati uh
220. 9:15they prepared a nice dinner for me and
221. 9:17it's just going to relax and just enjoy
222. 9:20the holiday play some games watch some
223. 9:23football just do normal people stuff you
224. 9:27know and I wanted to ask Brian how this
225. 9:30whole issue of uh we're constantly
226. 9:33seeing these stories of people who spend
227. 9:36years in prison and then later are
228. 9:39exonerated uh but no one seems to be
229. 9:41asking what's wrong with our criminal
230. 9:44justice system that we time and again
231. 9:46we're having these uh uh these examples
232. 9:49of a justice system that just didn't
233. 9:52bother to really seek the truth but
234. 9:55rather sort a conviction
235. 9:59yes I mean you know it's a human system
236. 10:01uh and any system that's that's run by
237. 10:03human beings is always going to have uh
238. 10:05errors I think as a country we've we've
239. 10:07decided to set the bar at a place where
240. 10:10hopefully uh you know people we prefer
241. 10:13guilty people go free than innocent
242. 10:15people be convicted but obviously that
243. 10:16doesn't always happen uh and lots of
244. 10:18people who are trying to do a good job
245. 10:21and are sincere uh in what they're doing
246. 10:23including police and prosecutors are
247. 10:25human beings and they make mistakes uh
248. 10:27and uh the more cases like this come out
249. 10:31the more aware I think that we are of
250. 10:33the sort of mistakes that can lead to
251. 10:34this the problems with witness
252. 10:35identification uh the problem with with
253. 10:38leading interviews and or leading
254. 10:40questions in witness interviews um the
255. 10:42sort of pressures that that witnesses
256. 10:44can can be under uh and so you know
257. 10:47hopefully cases like this will will mean
258. 10:49uh that it's more rare moving forward
259. 10:50and and UHA and people like Ricky don't
260. 10:53spend 39 years in prison for something
261. 10:55Ricky Jackson as you're released from
262. 10:57jail um Ferguson is on fire and I was
263. 11:01wondering if you have thoughts about
264. 11:06this well first of all it's a terrible
265. 11:08tragedy but unfortunately it's something
266. 11:11that seems to be reoccurring in America
267. 11:13all too often you know and
268. 11:18um I just think that everyone's lost
269. 11:21ability to or just don't want to talk to
270. 11:24each other I mean I think it all begins
271. 11:26with dialogue you know and sometime you
272. 11:30have to listen to the other side to get
273. 11:33an understanding of the entire situation
274. 11:36you know now two I just need think it
275. 11:38needs to be more dialogue two brothers
276. 11:41were convicted with you Brian how what
277. 11:43has happened to
278. 11:46them well honestly they're struggling
279. 11:48right now I mean they're they're they're
280. 11:50really struggling right now you know I
281. 11:54mean it hasn't been easy for these guys
282. 11:56since they got out you know
283. 12:02finally uh Brian how uh well no let me
284. 12:05ask Ricky Jackson uh you face death how
285. 12:09close did you come to death and what
286. 12:12were your thoughts as an innocent man
287. 12:15about to be put to death by the
288. 12:19state well um you know when you're
289. 12:22sentenced to death they give you they
290. 12:24give you a a death date
291. 12:26and I was back there 2 and A2 years
292. 12:29years and mine came up
293. 12:32and I heard a a prison guard coming down
294. 12:35the walkway and I thought they were
295. 12:37coming for me that that because it was
296. 12:39my day but really they give you this
297. 12:43yellow piece of paper that says that
298. 12:44your You' had a stay of execution
299. 12:47pending uh Ohio Supreme Court decision
300. 12:51and it was just it was just um you were
301. 12:54always on edge you know it was just
302. 12:57a it was just a terrible situation to be
303. 13:00in you know thinking that you know you
304. 13:02could be dead any any day now you know
305. 13:06it was just a horrible situation so the
306. 13:07state the state almost took your life
307. 13:09they did take 40 Years of your life will
308. 13:12you be
309. 13:15compensated I have no idea man it's a
310. 13:18long process Mr how could probably
311. 13:20answer that question better than I could
312. 13:22well Brian you have 10 seconds
313. 13:25well uh it is a long road uh you know C
314. 13:29certainly I think uh um he's he deserves
315. 13:31something for the the 40 years that was
316. 13:33taken from him but that's something that
317. 13:34we'll just have to see as as things move
318. 13:36forward it's amazing already $43,000 has
319. 13:40been raised just from people who care
320. 13:42about you Ricky Jackson uh we will
321. 13:45continue to follow to see what the state
322. 13:47will do Ricky Jackson has just been
323. 13:49released from prison after 39 years for
324. 13:51a crime he did not commit longest held
325. 13:54man who's now been exonerated his lawyer
326. 13:57Brian how as staff attorney with the oh
327. 13:59Innocence Project happy holidays to you
328. 14:02both that does it for our broadcast if
329. 14:04you'd like a copy go to our website of
330. 14:05democracynow.org our specials this week
331. 14:08will be Nome chsky for an hour and
332. 14:10Isabella yende tune in I'm Amy Goodman
333. 14:13with Juan Gonzalez thanks for joining us