"I Didn’t Know What the Sky Looked Like Any More": Ricky Jackson Exonerated After 39 Years in Jail — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00This is democracyow democracynow.org the
2. 0:02Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman
3. 0:04with Juan Gonzalez.
4. 0:06An Ohio man has been freed from prison
5. 0:08after spending 39 years behind bars for
6. 0:12a crime he didn't commit. Ricky Jackson,
7. 0:14a 59-year-old African-American man, had
8. 0:17been jailed since 1975
9. 0:19on a murder conviction. The
10. 0:21prosecution's case was based on the
11. 0:23testimony of a 13-year-old witness.
12. 0:25After a 2011 investigation, the witness
13. 0:28recanted his testimony, saying he had
14. 0:31implicated Jackson and two others under
15. 0:33police coercion. The witness, Eddie
16. 0:35Vernon, said police had fed him the
17. 0:37story and threatened him with the arrest
18. 0:38of his parents if he didn't cooperate.
19. 0:41On Friday, Ricky Jackson was freed after
20. 0:44prosecutors dropped the case.
21. 0:46How feel is extraordinary.
22. 0:50Needless to say,
23. 0:52no words can't express how I feel right
24. 0:53now. Just glad to be out. I had to be a
25. 0:55free man.
26. 0:56What are you going to do? Where are you
27. 0:57going to go?
28. 0:58Wow. I mean, you know, you sit in prison
29. 1:00for so long, you think about this day,
30. 1:02but when it actually comes, you don't
31. 1:04know what you just want to do something,
32. 1:06you know, besides what you've been doing
33. 1:08for 39 years. Okay.
34. 1:09When you heard the judge say an hour
35. 1:12ago, you're a free man, goodbye. Talk
36. 1:15about what you were feeling. What was
37. 1:16going on that we couldn't see?
38. 1:18I mean, it was it was like an emotional
39. 1:20roller coaster, you know? just I mean
40. 1:22the English language doesn't fit what
41. 1:25I'm feeling right now, you know. It's
42. 1:26just I mean I'm just on emotional high
43. 1:29right now.
44. 1:30With nearly four decades wrongfully
45. 1:33behind bars, Jackson's the longest held
46. 1:36US prisoner to be exonerated. Another
47. 1:38defendant in the case who served
48. 1:40slightly less time, Wy Bridgeman, has
49. 1:42also been released. For more, we go to
50. 1:44Cincinnati, Ohio, where we're joined by
51. 1:46Ricky Jackson and his lawyer, Brian How,
52. 1:49a staff attorney with the Ohio Innocence
53. 1:51Project. Ricky and Brian, welcome to
54. 1:53Democracy Now. Ricky Jackson, how does
55. 1:55it feel to be free?
56. 1:59Good morning. Um, I'm still getting used
57. 2:01to it. You know, it it's almost been a
58. 2:04week and uh I'm still getting adjusted
59. 2:06and acclimated to being out here, you
60. 2:09know, and not being inside those closed
61. 2:11walls, you know.
62. 2:13and closed walls.
63. 2:16And during all those years that you were
64. 2:19uh behind bars, did you ever lose uh
65. 2:22hope or expectation that you would
66. 2:24finally be exonerated? Could you talk
67. 2:27tell us about the uh uh the emotional uh
68. 2:30trials you went through all those all
69. 2:32that time?
70. 2:34Well, I said like I said previously,
71. 2:37it's it's constantly a battle trying to
72. 2:39stay positive and some days you get to
73. 2:42the point where you don't think you're
74. 2:44going to make it and you know it's just
75. 2:47a up and down type situation, you know,
76. 2:49you're always up and down, you know, and
77. 2:53uh but to answer your question, there
78. 2:54were times when I thought, you know,
79. 2:56this is it for me. I'm not, you know,
80. 2:58this is it.
81. 3:00Ricky, tell us your story. uh what
82. 3:02happened 40 years ago and how it was
83. 3:04that a 13-year-old child uh was the key
84. 3:08witness against you who now very ill 40
85. 3:12years later wanted to come clean.
86. 3:17Uh well the case happened in 1975.
87. 3:21I was uh 18 years old at the time and uh
88. 3:25there was a neighborhood store that was
89. 3:27robbed by three asalants and um
90. 3:31somehow Edward Vernon became involved in
91. 3:33the case. Apparently he went to the
92. 3:36police and told them that he was a
93. 3:38witness and that he uh eventually
94. 3:42identified myself, Ronnie Bridgeman, and
95. 3:44Wley Bridgemond as the asalants.
96. 3:47Um couple of days later we were
97. 3:50arrested, taken downtown and arraigned,
98. 3:52held before a lineup. And um we weren't
99. 3:56picked out in the lineup, but
100. 3:57unbeknownst to us, we didn't know this.
101. 3:59We thought we were, you know, everything
102. 4:01was okay. Nobody came out and said that
103. 4:04you guys are being charged or anything.
104. 4:07So we assumed we was getting our uh
105. 4:10obligatory phone call after you
106. 4:12arrested. and um we thought we were
107. 4:14going home, but that didn't turn out to
108. 4:17be the case. And a few months later, we
109. 4:20all went on trial. We were charged with
110. 4:22uh capital crimes
111. 4:24and uh subsequently, we all lost our uh
112. 4:27trials.
113. 4:29We were sent to death row. We were
114. 4:31sentenced to die in a high electric
115. 4:32chair. We were all sent to death row
116. 4:36where we stayed and lingered and
117. 4:38wondered and worried for two and a half
118. 4:42years.
119. 4:45Now, now there was a
120. 4:47um
121. 4:47I'm sorry. Go ahead.
122. 4:51No, I was just um at that time there was
123. 4:55a there was a lot of debate about the
124. 4:56Ohio death penalty. So, as it turned
125. 4:59out, they um
126. 5:02they nullified the death penalty at that
127. 5:04time and everybody back there was given
128. 5:07a life sentence in prison.
129. 5:11Now, there was a period of time uh when
130. 5:14you were offered uh the the possibility
131. 5:17of of parole. Could you talk about that
132. 5:19and and uh and your insistence on your
133. 5:21innocence?
134. 5:24Yes, sir. Um uh my attorney here, Mr. Uh
135. 5:27Brian How um he came to me one day and
136. 5:30he said, "Listen, Ricky, um this is the
137. 5:34situation. Uh there's a deal on the
138. 5:36table. You can walk out of here now a
139. 5:39free man
140. 5:41if you'll plead guilty to the charges
141. 5:43you're presently incarcerated for."
142. 5:46I mean, and I have to admit that it was
143. 5:48a tempting offer at that time. I've been
144. 5:50in prison so long, I didn't I didn't
145. 5:53even know what the sky looked like
146. 5:54anymore.
147. 5:56But, you know, it was just something
148. 5:58inside of me that said, "You can't do
149. 6:01this." You know, you've gone too long.
150. 6:04You struggle too hard. You can't do
151. 6:06this. You're innocent. You know, don't
152. 6:10admit to something you didn't do. You're
153. 6:12innocent. And that was the decision I
154. 6:15made. It was the right decision. And
155. 6:17really, it was the only decision that I
156. 6:19could have made. And Brian, how could
157. 6:21you talk about the the process of
158. 6:24exonerating Ricky? Uh the role of uh
159. 6:29some initial reporting on the case in a
160. 6:32in a local newspaper and then the
161. 6:34Innocence Project's involvement and the
162. 6:36role of two people who at that time were
163. 6:39school children on a bus uh in uh in
164. 6:42terms of being able to get him
165. 6:43exonerated.
166. 6:46Yes. Uh thanks, Juan. I mean, this this
167. 6:48case was really literally years in the
168. 6:50making. Um, you know, when when uh the
169. 6:53Ohio Innocence Project first got this
170. 6:54case, it was before Ed Vernon had come
171. 6:56forward and recanted. Uh, there were
172. 6:58students there that that had spoken with
173. 7:00Ricky uh that strongly and sincerely
174. 7:02believed in his innocence. Uh, and they
175. 7:04were passionate about the case and
176. 7:05that's what what kept things going. Uh,
177. 7:07around uh three or four years ago, there
178. 7:09was some really fantastic investigative
179. 7:11journalism done by Kyle Swinson at the
180. 7:13Cleveland Scene magazine. um he
181. 7:15continued to find things that that
182. 7:17suggested maybe that there was something
183. 7:18wrong with the trial back in 1975,
184. 7:20inconsistencies in Ed Vernon's story and
185. 7:23and uh leads that the police had towards
186. 7:25other people. Uh that continued until
187. 7:27eventually in 2013 um Ed Vernon on on in
188. 7:31in a hospital room uh confessed to his
189. 7:33pastor that that he had lied in 1975 and
190. 7:35had carried that weight with him for uh
191. 7:38uh you know over 35 36 years at that
192. 7:40point and his pastor encouraged him to
193. 7:42come forward to the innocence project.
194. 7:45Uh we continued to work on the case. I
195. 7:46mean, we we found uh uh school children
196. 7:49who were with Ed Vernon on a school bus
197. 7:52when the shooting happened. Uh even as
198. 7:54as recently as a week before the
199. 7:56hearing. Um so, you know, I mean, this
200. 7:58is has just been uh such an effort by so
201. 8:01many different people, law students,
202. 8:02over a dozen law students with the the
203. 8:04University of Cincinnati College of Law,
204. 8:06uh the attorney on the case prior to to
205. 8:08me, Carrie Wood. So many people have put
206. 8:10a lot of work into this case and it's
207. 8:12just really something special uh to to
208. 8:14to be sitting next to Ricky here today.
209. 8:16Uh it's not something that we would have
210. 8:18uh dreamed is possible a few weeks ago.
211. 8:20Ricky, I wanted to go back to that 2011
212. 8:23article published by the Cleveland scene
213. 8:25that laid out the weakness in the case
214. 8:27against you. The article notes you were
215. 8:29convicted based on this testimony of a
216. 8:3113-year-old boy with poor eyesight and
217. 8:33conflicting stories. Eddie Vernon. Now,
218. 8:36a grown man has since filed an affidavit
219. 8:38admitting he never saw the murder. Also
220. 8:40claims he was threatened by police into
221. 8:42identifying you as one of the murderers.
222. 8:44Vernon told the Cleveland scene, quote,
223. 8:46"The detective said that I was too young
224. 8:48to go to jail, but he would arrest my
225. 8:50parents for perjury because I was
226. 8:52backing out. My mom was sick at that
227. 8:54time, and that really scared me. I
228. 8:56didn't want my parents to get in trouble
229. 8:57over this."
230. 8:59So Ricky Jackson, um now you are free.
231. 9:04Uh what are your plans for Thanksgiving?
232. 9:09Um I'm going to be with some good
233. 9:12people. um here in Cincinnati. Uh they
234. 9:16prepared a nice dinner for me and it's
235. 9:18just going to relax and just enjoy the
236. 9:20holiday, play some games, watch some
237. 9:23football, just do normal people stuff,
238. 9:26you know,
239. 9:28and I wanted to ask Brian how this whole
240. 9:31issue of uh we're constantly seeing
241. 9:34these stories of people who spend years
242. 9:36in prison and then later are exonerated.
243. 9:40Uh but no one seems to be asking what's
244. 9:42wrong with our criminal justice system
245. 9:44that we time and again we're having
246. 9:47these uh uh these examples of a justice
247. 9:50system that just didn't bother to really
248. 9:53seek the truth but rather sort of
249. 9:56conviction.
250. 9:59Yes. I mean you know it's a human system
251. 10:01and any system that's that's run by
252. 10:03human beings is always going to have uh
253. 10:06errors. I think as a country we've we've
254. 10:07decided to set the bar at at a place
255. 10:10where hopefully uh you know people we
256. 10:13prefer guilty people go free than
257. 10:15innocent people be convicted. But
258. 10:16obviously that doesn't always happen. Uh
259. 10:18and lots of people who are trying to do
260. 10:20a good job and are sincere uh in what
261. 10:23they're doing including police and
262. 10:24prosecutors are human beings and they
263. 10:26make mistakes. Uh and uh the more cases
264. 10:29like this come out the more aware I
265. 10:32think that we are of the sort of
266. 10:33mistakes that can lead to this. the
267. 10:34problems with witness identification, uh
268. 10:37the problem with with leading interviews
269. 10:39and or leading questions in and witness
270. 10:41interviews, um the sort of pressures
271. 10:43that that witnesses can can be under. Uh
272. 10:46and so, you know, hopefully cases like
273. 10:47this will will mean uh that it's more
274. 10:49rare moving forward and and uh and
275. 10:52people like Ricky don't spend 39 years
276. 10:54in prison for something. Ricky Jackson,
277. 10:56as you're released from jail, um
278. 10:58Ferguson is on fire and I was wondering
279. 11:02if you have thoughts about this.
280. 11:07Well, first of all, it's a terrible
281. 11:08tragedy, but unfortunately, it's
282. 11:11something that seems to be a reoccurring
283. 11:13in America all too often,
284. 11:15you know, and um
285. 11:19I just think that everyone's lost
286. 11:21ability to or just don't want to talk to
287. 11:24each other. I mean I think it all begins
288. 11:26with dialogue you know and sometime you
289. 11:30have to listen to the other side to get
290. 11:33an understanding of the entire situation
291. 11:36you know
292. 11:37now two
293. 11:37I just need think it needs to be more
294. 11:39dialogue
295. 11:40two brothers were convicted with you
296. 11:42Brian how what has happened to them
297. 11:47well honestly they're struggling right
298. 11:49now I mean they're they're they're
299. 11:50really struggling right now you know I
300. 11:54mean It hasn't been easy for these guys
301. 11:56since they got out, you know.
302. 12:02Finally, uh Brian, how uh well, no, let
303. 12:05me ask Ricky Jackson. Uh you face death.
304. 12:09How close did you come to death and what
305. 12:12were your thoughts as an innocent man
306. 12:15about to be put to death by the state?
307. 12:20Well, um, you know, when you're
308. 12:22sentenced to death, they give you they
309. 12:24give you a a death date, and
310. 12:27I was back there 2 and 1/2 years, and
311. 12:29mine came up, and
312. 12:33I heard a prison guard coming down the
313. 12:35walkway, and I thought they were coming
314. 12:37for me that that because it was my day,
315. 12:40but really, they give you this yellow
316. 12:43piece of paper that says that you're
317. 12:45you've had a stay of execution pending.
318. 12:48uh Ohio Supreme Court decision and it
319. 12:51was just it was just um you were always
320. 12:54on edge, you know. It was just a
321. 12:58it was just a terrible situation to be
322. 13:00in, you know, thinking that, you know,
323. 13:02you could be dead any day now. You know,
324. 13:06it was just a horrible situation.
325. 13:07So, the state the state almost took your
326. 13:09life. They did take 40 years of your
327. 13:11life. Will you be compensated?
328. 13:16I have no idea, ma'am. It's a long
329. 13:18process. Mr. How could probably answer
330. 13:20that question better than I could.
331. 13:22Well, Brian, you have 10 seconds.
332. 13:24Well,
333. 13:26uh, it is a long road. Uh, you know,
334. 13:29certainly I think, uh, um, he's he
335. 13:31deserves something for the the 40 years
336. 13:33that was taken from him, but that's
337. 13:34something that we'll just have to see as
338. 13:35as things move forward.
339. 13:37It's amazing. Already $43,000 has been
340. 13:40raised just from people who care about
341. 13:43you, Ricky Jackson. Uh we will continue
342. 13:45to follow to see what the state will do.
343. 13:48Ricky Jackson has just been released
344. 13:49from prison after 39 years for a crime
345. 13:52he did not commit. Longest held man
346. 13:55who's now been exonerated. His lawyer
347. 13:57Brian How, a staff attorney with the
348. 13:59Ohio Innocence Project. Happy holidays
349. 14:01to you both. That does it for our
350. 14:03broadcast. If you'd like a copy, go to
351. 14:05our website at democracynow.org.
352. 14:07Our specials this week will be Nam Chsky
353. 14:10for an hour and Isabella Yende. Tune in.
354. 14:12I'm Amy Goodman with Juan Gonzalez.
355. 14:14Thanks for joining us.