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How to Spot a Psychopath — Transcript

by Jordan B Peterson · 14,681 words · 2,428 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Hi everybody. This is the eighth
0:03consecutive week of releases from my
0:06extensive tour archives. We've been
0:09gratified to see that this return to the
0:12form that I initially relied on when I
0:15started using YouTube is still capable
0:17of reaching people, more capable perhaps
0:20than it was in the beginning. We're
0:23attaining combined views and listens
0:25across YouTube and the audio channels of
0:27about half a million people a week. So
0:29that's very satisfying and gratifying
0:32and thank you to all of you who are
0:34listening consistently.
0:36I also spent a lot of time this week
0:38contemplating
0:40Peterson Academy ads. Uh we have a
0:43wonderful advertising team and have
0:45worked on developing cutlines and
0:47assessing graphic images and realized
0:50this week that we're really reaching
0:52millions of people with these
0:53advertisements. far more in some ways
0:56than we reach with the lectures from
0:58Peterson Academy. And it's an
1:00opportunity for us to send a cultural
1:02message and imagistic form to a huge
1:06audience of people. And so we've been
1:10concentrating on developing themes of
1:12patriotism and respect for the West and
1:15gratitude for our philosophical
1:16tradition and a harsher and more
1:19dramatic view of Christianity that I
1:22think is more accurate than the kind of
1:25naive sentimentality that often
1:27accompanies Christian messaging. And so
1:29it's been extremely interesting to think
1:31that through philosophically and to work
1:33on the Peterson Academy advertisements.
1:36Bye-bye.
1:38So, I've been writing the introduction
1:40to my this book. Um, it's it's 95% done.
1:44It actually turned into three books. Um,
1:47because it took longer to go through the
1:49material than I thought it might. And
1:51so, that's good. I was writing the intro
1:53today, the introduction, which is the
1:54hardest thing to do really, I would say.
1:57And uh I started thinking about how to
2:03communicate
2:07the relationship between the
2:08transcendent and the immediate
2:12between our realm, you might say, and
2:14this spiritual realm. How to communicate
2:16that so that it's entirely
2:20entirely comprehensible.
2:23And it it seems to me that this is
2:25something that's now necessary. I mean,
2:29I think we're at the point in our
2:31technological
2:33cultural development where
2:37well, we can't believe we can't just
2:39believe nothing.
2:42That's that doesn't work. You you can't
2:45make your way through life believing in
2:47nothing. Life is too difficult for you
2:51to sustain yourself without bitterness
2:54and resentment and without hopelessness,
2:56without succumbing to anxiety
2:59if you believe in nothing.
3:04But you can't just believe like someone
3:06believes in Santa Claus either.
3:09You have to
3:11you have to be deeper than that. And I
3:13think we have to be deeper than that now
3:14because we're too dangerous to be
3:16shallow.
3:18And I think everyone can feel that we
3:20have
3:21amazing tools at our disposal, but
3:25they're very, very dangerous. And so we
3:28have to be as wise as we are
3:29technologically proficient.
3:32And we're pretty technologically
3:33proficient. And we're not very wise. And
3:36that's not a good combination.
3:41And that's why things are shaking. And
3:42they've been shaking for quite a while.
3:44They've really been shaking, I would
3:45say, since the end of the Second World
3:47War. when we developed the atomic
3:50technologies that led to the
3:54to the nuclear bombs to the
3:57fision bomb and the fusion bomb world
4:00destroying technologies and those aren't
4:02the only technologies of that sort that
4:04we've developed. We've the birth control
4:07pill is a worldshattering technology.
4:10The computer chip is a worldshattering
4:13technology. the large language models we
4:15just developed this year, they have the
4:18same nature.
4:23So, we're gonna we're going to take a
4:25look at the background of things tonight
4:27and we're going to start by
4:29investigating
4:31what's going on behind the scenes in a
4:33relatively everyday manner. This
4:36introductory chapter that I'm writing, I
4:38started with a description of someone
4:42I imagined a man. So, I'm a man. Imagine
4:44a man on a first date
4:47in a busy restaurant. Typical situation
4:52of excitement and anticipation and
4:56nervousness.
4:59Nothing out of the ordinary
5:04except in so far as everything's out of
5:06the ordinary. If you if you think about
5:09it if you think about it sufficiently.
5:13Imagine
5:17that
5:20the scene is set in a restaurant that's
5:23extremely it's busy and noisy and uh the
5:27young man comes in
5:31waiting to
5:33see the woman that he's invited out for
5:35an evening and maybe they've met online
5:38and uh they decided to meet at this
5:40restaurant and So
5:45he sees her at the table.
5:48His initial impression we'll say is
5:50positive. He sits down
5:54and they start to well they start to
5:56what? They start to talk. They start to
6:01dance the way people do when they're
6:02talking. If you're attending to someone
6:06when you're talking to them, you tend to
6:09match your movements with them.
6:12Depressed mothers don't do that with
6:14their babies. If you film videotape
6:18mothers who aren't depressed with their
6:21babies and are depressed with their
6:23babies and you speed up the films, you
6:24can see that the mothers who aren't
6:26depressed dance as they're communicating
6:28with the babies. The baby moves, the
6:31mother moves. like there's a continual
6:33back and forth exchange of
6:36information, but also bodily maneuvering
6:39that characterizes an attentive
6:41relationship. And you'll notice
6:44perhaps if you're sitting with someone
6:46and you're talking to them and you're
6:48listening, more importantly, you're
6:50listening much more importantly that
6:53you'll unconsciously mimic their posture
6:56and you'll adjust their
6:59your rate of movement to theirs. You
7:01start to dance.
7:04When a couple dances together, that's
7:07actually one of the things they're
7:08checking each other out for. like are
7:11you capable of adjusting yourself in
7:13real time to the movements and subtle
7:16offerings of someone else? That's what's
7:19being evaluated. That's what children do
7:20when they meet each other in a
7:22playground and they decide whether they
7:23can play. They send some signals back
7:25and forth and they see if they can get
7:27into a communicative dance and if they
7:29can do that, then they can scaffold off
7:31that and begin to play. And we're doing
7:33that sort of thing all the time. And
7:37the couple who are just encountering
7:39each other in the restaurant are
7:41undertaking to do that and they're
7:43evaluating each other
7:47while that is occurring.
7:50Now, while they're doing that, they have
7:51to solve another problem. It's a very
7:53complicated problem. So, imagine they're
7:55in the restaurant. Imagine it's a very
7:57busy place, noisy,
8:00a lot of background activity, kitchen
8:02noises, maybe there's a DJ, there's 30
8:04other couples or families or groups of
8:06friends sitting there and they're all
8:08buzzing away, talking and chatting. And
8:10so there's like 40 conversations going
8:13on plus the
8:16activity of the waiters and the
8:18waitresses and the music.
8:21Now, what you have to do in a situation
8:23like that is you have to
8:26filter all that out and attend
8:29to the
8:31person that you're sitting with.
8:34Now,
8:37that's a very complicated thing to do.
8:39It's an amazing thing. You can do it at
8:41all. Now, you can imagine that you're
8:43sitting there and
8:45well, maybe you're nervous.
8:48Then you might ask why? But imagine
8:51you're nervous. Your attention is
8:52distracted. You're distracted by
8:56self-conscious thoughts. That often
8:59happens. You're wondering
9:01what the person thinks of you. You're
9:02wondering if they think you're
9:04attractive. They wonder you're wondering
9:07if you're impressing them. You're
9:09wondering
9:11what you should say next.
9:15You're wondering how to make the best
9:16display of yourself.
9:21And while doing that, you're focusing on
9:23yourself and not them. And while you're
9:26doing that, if you're focusing on
9:27yourself, you're going to be anxious.
9:31Because it turns out that there's no
9:32difference in a social situation between
9:35focusing on yourself and being anxious.
9:37There's no difference between
9:38self-consciousness and anxiety. That's
9:42why when the scales fall from Adam and
9:44Eve's eyes in the garden of paradise,
9:46they become aware of their nakedness and
9:50that precipitates that's part of what
9:52precipitates the fall. To become
9:54self-conscious is to is to be miserable.
9:58It's to descend. And that's a very
10:00useful thing to know. And so one of the
10:02things you could take away from this
10:04talk tonight if you tend to be a
10:06socially anxious person is that the next
10:08time you're anxious, pay more attention
10:11to the person you're with. Don't pay
10:13less attention to yourself. That doesn't
10:15work because as soon as you start
10:16thinking that you should pay less
10:17attention to yourself, you're just
10:19thinking about yourself and then you get
10:21anxious. But you can really really
10:24increase the amount of attention you're
10:25paying to the other person. And if you
10:27do that, which is a hospitable thing to
10:29do by the way, then your anxiety will
10:33decrease.
10:34And then
10:36well then you might imagine too that you
10:38could get distracted by the
10:39conversations of the people around you,
10:42right? And so your attention might
10:44wander so that you're eavesdropping on
10:47the table next to you or two tables away
10:49or you hear the music or your your
10:51attention is fragmented. And as a
10:53consequence of that, you you lose the
10:55thread of the conversation and you step
10:57out of sync with the person you're
10:59communicating with. That sets up some
11:01awkwardnesses in the conversation. You
11:04maybe have to ask the person to repeat
11:07what they said or you misunderstand
11:08something and then you say something
11:09foolish and
11:12the melody of the the throughine of the
11:14conversation starts to get disrupted and
11:17the dance is the dance becomes awkward.
11:20You're stepping on each other's toes
11:23and
11:25that's a consequence of the
11:26fragmentation of your attention.
11:28>> What's it called?
11:29>> Peterson Academy.
11:31>> Peterson Academy.
11:31>> Peterson Academy.
11:32>> It's called Peterson Academy.
11:34>> Peterson Academy. If you want an actual
11:36education
11:37>> with hand selected professors from top
11:39universities around the world,
11:42>> bringing the best professors together,
11:43making sure they're not censored in any
11:45way, giving them the audience and the
11:46remuneration and appreciation they
11:47deserve.
11:48>> And you were true to your word. You gave
11:49me absolute intellectual autonomy. I
11:51have had it through every course.
11:53>> We figure we can offer people a
11:54highquality university level education
11:57for under $2,000.
11:58>> Well, congratulations, Jordan. It's
12:00honestly brilliant. Can't wait to enroll
12:01myself. I'll be doing that straight
12:03after this.
12:04>> Fun, Joe.
12:15What does it mean to attend?
12:23Now, that's where things get strange.
12:26What does it mean to attend?
12:29Why are you attending?
12:31That's the first question. What the hell
12:33are you doing there?
12:35Right? Because you can be sure that the
12:37person you're with wants to know that
12:39and you want to know that, too. And so,
12:43let's take apart why you're there.
12:47you're there.
12:51Let's let's let's presume this.
12:54I'll tell you something about
12:57human
12:59social and sexual patterns. We'll we'll
13:02approach this from the biological
13:03perspective
13:05in the
13:08most animals reproduce sexually.
13:11There's there's complicated reasons for
13:13that. It's not strictly necessary. There
13:15are animals that can essentially clone
13:17themselves. It's not a good strategy.
13:20Sexual reproduction is a much better
13:21strategy, which is why virtually all
13:23species are sexually dimorphic. Dorphic.
13:27Two sexes. Right. Two. Right.
13:32Right.
13:39There are various types of sexual
13:41strategies in the animal kingdom.
13:43reproduction strategies. That's a better
13:45way of thinking about it.
13:49On the one end of the distribution of
13:52sexual strategies are low investment,
13:55high reproduction rate strategies. Um,
13:58puff balls have that strategy. I don't
14:01know if you know the mushroom that's a
14:02puff ball. dries and if you step on it,
14:04it puffs out what looks like smoke, but
14:07which is actually like hundreds of
14:09millions of spores, an immense number of
14:12them. And they just float on the wind
14:14and they land anywhere. And even if
14:18there's a 100 million of them, there's
14:19actually more produced. They all die
14:23except one on average. And so we
14:27maintain our number of puff balls, but
14:30we don't end up kneede in them, which is
14:33what would happen if the success rate
14:34was higher. That's a
14:37high reproduction rate, low investment
14:39strategy.
14:42On the other end of the distribution
14:46are human beings, as it turns out, were
14:49low reproduction rate, high investment
14:51strategy
14:53reproducers. And so what does that mean?
14:55Well, it means
14:58you don't have very many kids. I don't
15:00know what the world record for number of
15:02children
15:04for a woman is. It's something like 70.
15:07Right. Right. It's a lot. It's a very
15:10rare woman who has 70. Very very
15:14right. The upper end for men is much
15:16higher, but for women it's 70. But that
15:20but that's not the typical number of
15:22children. Obviously the typical number
15:25of children well historically was
15:30two on average because the human
15:32population was very stable for a very
15:34long period of time. In the last hundred
15:36years, as we've become
15:39200, as we've become wealthier,
15:44our the rate of survival of our children
15:46has increased dramatically, but it was
15:49quite dismal for a long time. Even so,
15:52we didn't have very many children.
15:55It's nine months of pregnancy. It's
15:57quite difficult.
15:59The human infant is very, very dependent
16:05when it's first born. There's a variety
16:07of reasons for that.
16:09We have very large heads.
16:12It's hard for the heads to pass through
16:14the the the pelvic structure. Women's
16:17pelvic structure is very carefully
16:19balanced. It's
16:21her hips are wide enough so the baby can
16:24pass through, but narrow enough so she
16:26can still run. And that's a very
16:29tight competition. And one of the ways
16:33we've finessed that is that our infants
16:35are born about a year younger than they
16:37might be for a mammal of approximately
16:39our size. And our infant's heads are
16:42compressible. Often a baby after just
16:45after it's born has a like a cone-shaped
16:47head because the skull is compressible.
16:49It's a very narrow passageway into life
16:54and
16:57it's a consequence in part of our
16:58cortical evolution, the expansion of our
17:00brain. And the price we pay for that is
17:04not only trouble in childbirth, let's
17:08say. And the requirement for our infants
17:11to be born in essentially a quasi fetal
17:14state, you know, as opposed to say the a
17:17baby calf that can stand up and walk
17:19within minutes after it's born. Human
17:23infant is basically immobile for six
17:25months and barely mobile for nine and
17:28can't walk at all for till about 12
17:31months and then can't take care of
17:33itself till it's
17:3540 and
17:42and so they take a lot of investment
17:46and it's not just a single generation of
17:48investment it's a multigenerational
17:50investment. That's part of the reason
17:52why we're a longer lived species because
17:54there's some utility from a reproductive
17:56I'm speaking purely biologically. You
17:58understand? There's some utility in
18:00having grandparents around because the
18:02problem of raising children is so
18:04difficult that it has to be born by a
18:08number of closely related people over a
18:10very long period of time. Very long
18:12period of time. And we are pair bonding.
18:17We're a pair bonding species for the
18:19same reason that the burden of a infant
18:23and the opportunity the burden and
18:25opportunity of in infant is such that
18:29if it's born by only the mother the
18:33chances of cataclysmic failure are much
18:36much much
18:37higher
18:39and so we tilt towards pair bonding. So
18:43we're high investment, low reproducing
18:45species for long lifespan, very
18:48dependent children.
18:50Our children require a lot of
18:52investment.
18:55However,
18:59within
19:01the domain of human beings,
19:05there are low investment. There are
19:08people who adopt low investment
19:11mating strategies and high investment
19:13mating strategies.
19:16Low investment mating strategy is
19:19it's a hedonistic strategy.
19:22It's a one night stand strategy.
19:25And
19:28you might ask, well, what's your point?
19:32The point of attention, let's say. Well,
19:34you're sitting in your restaurant.
19:37You're having dinner with the person you
19:38invited out. What's your strategy?
19:43And how do you direct your attention in
19:45consequence of that strategy?
19:48And that is the question because you
19:49direct your attention in consequence of
19:52your aim.
19:55Okay. So, let's imagine that your aim is
20:00short-term mating strategy, right? One
20:03night stand. All right. So,
20:08you're going to direct your attention
20:10and you're going to
20:13organize your actions in keeping with
20:15that goal.
20:19Well, how are you going to do that
20:20exactly? We know the goal you're serving
20:23now. Well, well, do we? What goal are
20:25you serving exactly?
20:28Well, you might say you're trying to get
20:29what you want. It's like that's one way
20:32of thinking about it. depends on how you
20:35define you.
20:37You're trying to get what a fraction of
20:39you wants. Let's say you're trying to
20:41get what a desire of yours wants. So,
20:44what you're doing if you're pursuing a
20:46short-term mating strategy, you want to
20:47get the girl in bed as fast as possible,
20:50let's say, is that you're reducing who
20:54you are to that immediate demand to that
20:58narrow demand for immediate
21:00self-gratification.
21:02And so that's the you that's having the
21:04conversation.
21:06Okay. So there could be all sorts of
21:10other U's that might be there. You might
21:12be lonely, so you're looking for a
21:13companion. You might be lonely and
21:17serious. In which case, you're not only
21:20looking for a companion, but you're
21:22looking, we'll step out of the sexual
21:25realm for a moment. You're looking for a
21:26friend. And a friend, think about a
21:28friend from the perspective of a child.
21:30A friend is someone you that you can
21:32play a game with, but that you want to
21:34repeat the game with many times. That's
21:36a friend. And so if you're lonesome and
21:38you're adopting a companion8 strategy,
21:42you're going to be looking to make a
21:44friend that you can play with and that
21:46would be the dinner. But that would but
21:49with whom the game would go well enough
21:50so that well she would like to repeat
21:53the game. That would be the second date,
21:55let's say. And that the what would
21:58spiral up out of that would be a
22:00sequence of games let's say and that
22:02sequence of games would be a
22:03relationship and in principle that might
22:06move towards well then again it depends
22:09on your aim move towards what
22:14steady dating uh living together
22:16marriage those are very different aims
22:18and they're going to the consequence of
22:21those different aims is going to direct
22:23your attention and your action
22:25accordingly.
22:26Right? And all that's sitting there in
22:28that dinner right at the beginning.
22:31Well, let's say that
22:34you're not
22:36you don't want the responsibility
22:39or opportunity of a long-term
22:41relationship, long-term committed
22:43relationship, which is the awkward
22:45terminology we use to replace the much
22:47shorter and to the point term marriage.
22:50You're not looking for marriage. Well,
22:53what are you looking for? Well, in the
22:55extreme, you're looking for short-term
22:58sensual gratification,
23:00and that's what's directing your
23:01attention. So, the you that's there is
23:03the part of you that wants short-term
23:06gratification. Okay. Well, what is that
23:08part like? Well, it's it's
23:11hedonistically oriented
23:13obviously because the goal is sex and
23:15sex is pleasure and and it's it's easily
23:20it can easily become pleasure at the
23:23cost of the person you're with. And it
23:25can also easily become pleasure at your
23:28cost in so far as you are inadvertently
23:32sacrificing the possibility of long-term
23:35stable committed marriage to the demands
23:39of the immediate moment. And so by
23:42switching to a short-term mating
23:44strategy, so to speak, not only are you
23:47other already utilizing the other person
23:50as a tool for the gratification of your
23:53immediate desires, but you're also doing
23:55the same thing
23:57that impulse is also doing the same
24:00thing to the broader you,
24:03right?
24:05It's not. You can understand that more
24:06deeply if you think about the difference
24:08between a 2-year-old and a mature adult.
24:11A two-year-old wants what he or she
24:13wants no matter what right now. And you
24:17can see that when two-year-olds have
24:19temper tantrums, which they do quite or
24:21or university students for that matter
24:25increasingly.
24:27And because they haven't matured past
24:29that point, because our culture is
24:32pathized enough now so that that often
24:34happens. And so that pattern of immature
24:38demand for immediate gratification is
24:41maintained far past its due date because
24:43that should really disappear by about
24:45the age of four. And if it doesn't
24:47disappear by the age of four, it tends
24:50not to disappear. And so part of what
24:53you're doing when you're a parent, if
24:55you have any sense, is that you're
24:58enticing
24:59and disciplining your child towards the
25:03substitution of a medium to long-term
25:07orientation in time
25:10and a communal or orientation, one that
25:13takes other people into account for in
25:16exchange for what they want for
25:18themselves right now.
25:21and what you want for yourself right now
25:24is a more instinctive way of approaching
25:27the world. Um,
25:30your drives, so to speak. Your desires
25:34are part and parcel of what you bring
25:36into the world. And if you're ruled by
25:39them, you're ruled by whim. And you
25:41might think that if you're engaging in
25:43short-term mating strategies, you're
25:45pursuing what you want, what you want.
25:48But what you don't understand is that
25:50you're actually serving
25:53a master who's a hedenistic fragment of
25:57your total self and you're doing that
26:01in doing that you sacrifice the
26:03possibility of communal relationship and
26:06you sacrifice your own future. Okay. So
26:08how do we know this? Think well that's
26:10you can say that all you want. You're
26:12just, you know, making what? You're
26:14making a value judgment about the manner
26:16in which people conduct themselves
26:18sexually. Yeah. Yes, I'm definitely
26:20doing that. What? Why am I doing that?
26:23Like on what grounds am I doing that?
26:25Well, we actually know as psychologists
26:29something about the people who default
26:31to short-term mating strategies.
26:34Oh, let me tell you that story. He kind
26:36of cut in. And here's the reason I'm
26:38telling you this. It's like with every
26:41glance you take, you serve a master.
26:45Right now, you might not know what that
26:47master is. You might not want to know,
26:50but there is no avoiding that.
26:54It's built into the structure of
26:56perception itself.
27:00Your perceptions serve your aims.
27:03And that's really something to know. If
27:05the world is unfolding for you as a
27:07place of dreadful
27:09misery, if the world is unfolding for
27:11you as a valueless, hopeless,
27:14obstaconder,
27:15cluttered, friendless pathway forward,
27:19you might want to ask just what the hell
27:21is it you're aiming at?
27:26Your aim is short-term sexual
27:28gratification. Okay, so what do we know
27:30about that? Well, here's one thing we
27:32know. One of the most reliable markers
27:35of
27:36criminal proclivity in adolescence is
27:41early multiple partner sexual
27:44experience.
27:46So that's been known for 50 60 years
27:50independent of moral judgment. It's a
27:53clinical marker for antisocial
27:55personality for childhood conduct
27:57disorder.
27:59So that's interesting to know.
28:03It's a reflection of a person's
28:05proclivity to use themselves and other
28:07people as instruments of short-term
28:11gratification. Right? So, it's also a
28:13sign of a radical kind of maturity
28:15immaturity.
28:18It's also very stable. As I said, if
28:19it's if that's proclivity is
28:24evident
28:26after the age of four, it tends to be
28:28very stable and permanent. It
28:30characterizes most
28:32toddlers.
28:34It's characteristic of immaturity.
28:38I want what I want now. And
28:42look the hell out if you're in my way.
28:45Now, that's not such a problem if the
28:46person you're dealing with is two cuz
28:49they're this high, right? And they're
28:52not very dangerous. Although
28:54two-year-olds are the most violent human
28:56beings,
28:58they've been grouped together. You can
28:59group children together in groups of
29:01different ages. And by far the most
29:04violent group is two-year-olds.
29:06So, but again, they're small and they
29:08can't do each other much damage. So, and
29:11most of those, some of the two-year-olds
29:13are more violent than others. And but
29:15even the violent ones tend to be
29:17socialized by the age of four. Not all
29:20of them. The ones that aren't, the
29:22violent two-year-olds that aren't
29:23socialized by the age of four, they tend
29:25to towards a lifetime criminal path.
29:30So, okay. So, what else do we know about
29:34short-term mating strategies?
29:41In the 1960s, psychologists started to
29:44develop what eventually became the
29:47technologies that produced the large
29:49language models that have come out in
29:51recent months.
29:53What large language models do is analyze
29:56the statistical relationship between
29:58words or sets of words. And and so what
30:01does that mean? Well, imagine that you
30:03read a thousand books and in those books
30:06the word good appeared
30:08and multiple times in most books and
30:10then there was some reasonable
30:11probability that with good other words
30:14would appear in close proximity. So if
30:18you were talking about what was good,
30:19you might talk about what was beautiful.
30:21You might talk about what was evil. If
30:23good shows up, some other words are
30:25likely to show up.
30:28It's like when you're analyzing a word
30:30per se, like what makes a word? Cat. C A
30:33T. Um,
30:36that's a word. CIT T isn't a word. CIT T
30:40is more of a word than C QT.
30:45Why? Well, because the pattern of
30:47consonant, vowel, consonant is much more
30:49common among words than the pattern
30:52consonant, consonant, consonant. There
30:54are statistical regularities between
30:56letters, between words, between groups
30:59of words, between sentences, between
31:02paragraphs, between concepts that can be
31:05mapped at all levels. So maybe a
31:07paragraph about the beautiful is more
31:10likely statistically to be followed by a
31:12paragraph about
31:16the beautiful.
31:17[snorts] These large language models,
31:19they map all those relationships,
31:21billions of parameters. They map out the
31:23domain of
31:26statistical conceptual
31:29similarity and difference. They're maps
31:31of meaning really. Psychologists started
31:33to use very primitive technologies like
31:36that 50 years ago and they started to
31:39map out the domain of personality.
31:43Um
31:45if you're if you smile, imagine you're
31:49happy.
31:51If you're happy, it turns out you're
31:53statistically more likely to be
31:54talkative.
31:56If you're anxious, you're statistically
31:58more likely to be frustrated. If you're
32:01agreeable, if you're nice, you're
32:04statistically more likely to be
32:05welcoming. If you're
32:09um if you're combative and competitive,
32:12you're statistically more likely to be
32:16to say no. If you're interested in
32:20ideas, you're statistically more likely
32:23to read fiction. Um, if you're dutiful,
32:27you're more likely to be patriotic.
32:29If you take all of the descriptors that
32:32you could use to describe human
32:34personality and you analyze the
32:36relationships between the descriptors,
32:38you can see that they clump into five
32:40dimensions.
32:42Extraversion is one. Neuroticism, that's
32:45the proclivity to experience negative
32:47emotion. That's another. If you
32:48experience one negative emotion, you're
32:50statistically more likely to experience
32:52all of negative emotions. Agreeableness,
32:55that's kind of the maternal dimension.
32:57Conscientiousness, that makes you
32:59orderly and industrious. Openness,
33:01that's the creativity dimension. That
33:02was all mapped out. When that mapping
33:05was occurring,
33:09the evaluative words were thrown out.
33:12Good and evil. They didn't include those
33:13words. And the reason for that was that
33:15if they included evaluative words, good
33:17evil, criminal, noncriminal,
33:21where there was a clear value judgment,
33:22the whole statistical model tended to
33:24collapse into something like good versus
33:27evil. And that wasn't very helpful. So
33:29they threw that out. Now the problem,
33:32sorry, this is a roundabout way of
33:34getting to the point, but I have to walk
33:36you through it. What the consequence of
33:39that was that the models of personality
33:42that we derived didn't
33:44flesh out our understanding of so-called
33:48psychopathology,
33:50abnormal behavior, antisocial behavior,
33:54troublesome,
33:56pathological, narcissistic,
33:59self-sabotaging,
34:01socially undermining behavior. If you
34:03throw out the evaluative words,
34:06you can't map that quite as well. So
34:08what happened once we established the
34:10map of normative personality is that
34:12some psychologists started to study
34:16the evaluative dimension.
34:25the bad actors
34:29and their analysis of how what was
34:33antisocial
34:34and self-serving
34:37made itself manifested manifest revealed
34:40initially three dimensions.
34:46Narcissism.
34:48So, if you're narcissistic, you want
34:51attention,
34:52but you don't want to do any of the work
34:54that would be necessary to validly
34:55obtain it. You know, if you're a good
34:58guy, you're going to get attention from
35:00your family and your community because
35:02you're productive and generous. That's a
35:04good start. You're reliable, honest,
35:06productive, and generous. You can fake
35:08that. You can claim status that you
35:11don't deserve. You can draw attention to
35:13yourself.
35:14you can capitalize on that attention
35:16without making any of the relevant
35:18sacrifices. And if you do that, then
35:21you're narcissistic. So that's one
35:22dimension. Another dimension is
35:26Machavevelian.
35:28Back to the date.
35:30Well, first of all, if you're
35:31narcissistic in the date, you're not
35:34going to be listening much to your date.
35:36You're going to be talking a lot about
35:39why you're so great and how much
35:41attention you deserve. then you're going
35:42to be checking that other person out
35:45pretty hard to see if they're granting
35:47you the attention you deserve. And if
35:50you're a man doing that, you can often
35:52pull the wool over your date's eyes,
35:55especially if she's young and naive,
35:57because narcissists mimic competence.
36:01Young women who have some wisdom are
36:03looking for competent men. But they
36:06assess
36:08competence with confidence. And
36:09narcissists mimic confidence,
36:13right? Which is why, you know, there's a
36:15trope, romantic Hollywood trope that the
36:17girls like the bad boys. Well, why?
36:19Because they look confident and that
36:23that girls confuse that with competence.
36:25And that's the narcissistic game. It's
36:27one element of the narcissistic game.
36:31If you're ruled by the spirit of
36:33narcissism and you're on a date, then
36:36you're going to use the date as a stage
36:39where you can display your
36:43hypothetical virtues so that you can
36:45garner attention.
36:49Machavelianism is another one of these
36:51dark traits. What do you do if you're a
36:54Machavevelian?
36:57That's what a con man does. Or a used
36:59car salesman, you know, like you go to a
37:02used car lot. Maybe you go to a store,
37:05not a store you'd go to twice, and the
37:08person sees you as a means to an end,
37:12and the end would be, "We'll have your
37:14money. Thank you very much." Which is
37:16fine if there's some service returned
37:18for the money because then it's a fair
37:20exchange. But the Machavelian thinks if
37:23you're enough of a sucker so that I can
37:25talk you into opening your wallet, then
37:27I should have your money cuz you're too
37:29dumb to use it. And so that's a hell of
37:32a way of evaluating a social situation.
37:35And so for a for a Machavelian in a
37:37conversation, you're just something to
37:40be manipulated with words to deliver the
37:42goods. That's Machavevelian
37:45manipulation, right? And
37:49a good Machavelian will watch you so
37:53they can tell you what you want to hear
37:56so they can direct you to go where they
37:58want you to go. Now, in the case of the
38:01date and you're the unfortunate target
38:03of the Machavelian, if that's going to
38:07be into sexual exchange as rapidly as
38:10possible, that's the example we're
38:12using.
38:14Machavelian.
38:15That's not all. There's another
38:17dimension that goes along with this.
38:20Psychopathy.
38:22And what's a psychopath? Well, you know
38:24what a psychopath is because you go to
38:26movies. And the psychopaths you see in
38:29movies are usually narcissistic and
38:30machavelian, too, because that's what
38:32makes them charming, right? And they're
38:34very cold-blooded and they want just
38:37exactly what they want from you right
38:40now, regardless of the cost to them or
38:42to you. Why to them? Being a psychopath
38:45is actually not a very good strategy.
38:47Lots of psychopaths end up in prison. If
38:50you interact with a psychopath a couple
38:52of times and doesn't work out so well
38:53for you, which is kind of the point, you
38:56tend to remember that. And so if you
38:59have your the option as you move
39:01forward, you avoid that person. And so
39:04psychopaths are often wandering
39:06itinerants. And the reason for that is
39:08because they have to move from community
39:10to community because they burn their
39:11bridges and everybody knows who the hell
39:13they are. And so they have to move on.
39:14And that's the kind of wandering conman.
39:18That's the origin of the wandering con
39:20man archetype, right? If you're going to
39:22screw everybody, so to speak, in your
39:24social circle, then you have to make
39:27tracks for new territory. And so what's
39:29a psychopath technically?
39:32Predatory
39:35parasite. So what does that mean?
39:37Predatory means
39:40whatever you have that can be mine.
39:43Thank you very much. That's the
39:45predatory aspect. The parasitical
39:47element is more subtle. It's more
39:49long-term.
39:50Someone with a parasitical lifestyle
39:53will manipulate you by whatever means
39:56necessary so they can live without
39:58effort off the fruits of your labor.
40:00Right? So that's the parasitical
40:03element. And the real criminal types, 1%
40:06of the criminals are responsible for 65%
40:09of the crimes. By the way, the real dark
40:12criminal types tend towards the
40:14psychopathic. You know, you get the odd
40:16person in prison who did something
40:18spectacularly stupid once. And you know,
40:22that's not okay, but that's way
40:24different than the repeating pattern
40:26that characterizes
40:28the the personality whose traits I'm
40:30enumerating now. So that was called the
40:33dark triad and people studied that. Her
40:36first person to study this really was a
40:38guy named Dale Paulace at the University
40:39of British Columbia and he studied the
40:42dark triad for a number of years. Then
40:44he started figuring out what it was
40:45associated with
40:49short-term mating strategies.
40:52Right? So that's entertaining.
40:58So then you might think,
41:00well, let's add another layer just for
41:03amusement.
41:05Turned out that didn't exhaust the
41:06network of meaning
41:09on the dark side of the personality
41:12in the personality realm. Didn't exhaust
41:15the full
41:18manifestation of what was dark in the
41:20personality realm.
41:22As the research into the dark triad
41:24progressed and more and more questions
41:28were asked about just exactly what this
41:32pattern of behavior,
41:35just exactly how this pattern of
41:37behavior could be characterized.
41:40Another term entered the
41:44diagnostic lexicon.
41:46Sadism.
41:48Sadism. the po positive delight in the
41:51suffering of others. That's the dark
41:53tetrad, right? A lovely
41:57tetrd.
42:00Striving for undeserved attention with
42:02no reciprocity.
42:04Using language and action instrumentally
42:08to gain a narrow end,
42:11predatory parasitical orientation. Plus,
42:15if I can hurt you, so much the better.
42:22How much of that spirit's in in the
42:24date?
42:27So these are the things that lurk behind
42:31everything we do at every moment of our
42:34lives. That's on the dark side of
42:36things, right? So So I said your aim
42:41determines your pattern of attention,
42:44right? Your aim determines your pattern
42:47of attention.
42:49So, if you're aiming at
42:54short-term hedonic self-gratification,
42:57then the spirit that you've invited in
43:00to direct your attention and orchestrate
43:04your actions is the spirit that's at the
43:07core of narcissism, macavelianism,
43:11psychopathy, and sadism. And you might
43:14say, "Well, that's a dark spirit indeed.
43:18Right?
43:21That's a
43:22psychoanalytic and now
43:26uh conceptual descent into the
43:29underworld under human interactions,
43:32right? That's the character behind the
43:34scenes.
43:36You might ask yourself,
43:39well, how do you become that spirit? And
43:43the answer to that is
43:46you invited in. I'll give you an example
43:48of that.
43:54In the story of Cain and Abel,
43:57it's the second biblical story.
44:00It occurs after Adam and Eve are
44:02expelled from the Garden of the sin of
44:05pride.
44:07God tells Adam and Eve that they're
44:09going to have to work now because
44:11they've fallen. The way of thinking of
44:13here's a way of thinking about that.
44:16You can work in your life or you can
44:17play in your life. Let's say when do you
44:20play? Well, you play when you play with
44:24others when they want to play with you.
44:25You play when you're pursuing something
44:29good and communal joyfully. You work
44:32when
44:38you work brutally.
44:42In the aftermath of an error that has
44:45made your life much worse than it might
44:47have otherwise been. You could say
44:49that's an error of pride. You bite off
44:51more than you can chew. You end up in a
44:53situation where you have to toil madly
44:56to
44:59rescue you yourself from the hole that
45:02you dug. There's a insistence in the
45:04Judeo-Christian ethical pantheon that
45:07suffering enters the life with enters
45:10life with sin. It's a hard idea to
45:13swallow given the omnipresence of death,
45:15let's say, and the reality of pain. But
45:18if you understand that story in the
45:20manner that I just described, then you
45:22also understand very rapidly that a lot
45:25of the very difficult work that you have
45:26to do and a lot of the suffering that
45:28befalls you is a consequence not so much
45:30of the structure of existence itself,
45:32but of your proclivity
45:36to cause for yourself because of
45:39misdirected aim way more trouble than
45:42you would actually have to have. And
45:44that's what happens to Adam and Eve. And
45:46that's why they have to struggle
45:47forward.
45:50Work is established as the pattern of
45:52life in that story. And then Eve gives
45:55birth to Cain and Abel. They're the
45:57first two human beings. Really, speaking
46:00biblically, Adam and Eve are made by
46:02God. They don't count. Cain and Abel are
46:05the first two human beings. They're the
46:06first two.
46:08They're the brothers, the first brothers
46:10who emerge in the profane world of
46:12history, right? They established two
46:15patterns, very deep patterns, two
46:17opposed patterns.
46:20Cain,
46:21Abel.
46:23Abel aims up
46:26and he brings
46:28his best to the table. That's a good
46:30thing to think about in relationship to
46:32the date.
46:34the man who's there
46:37with the woman that he
46:40has an interest in could aim up and
46:43bring his best to the table. That's one
46:45strategy.
46:48Cain, by contrast,
46:50offers what's second rate.
46:54Well, you can understand that in the
46:56confines of your own life. You could
46:57imagine that first of all, you could
46:59imagine aiming up or not. That's easy to
47:02imagine. Sometimes you're aiming up and
47:05sometimes you're not. And then even
47:07independent of that to some degree is
47:10how much
47:13sacrificial effort you're willing to put
47:14into the attempt, right? Because you
47:17could imagine at the best times of your
47:19life that you were all in. You put your
47:22best on the table. You hit it with
47:24everything you had. And perhaps if you
47:28were fortunate, the consequence of that
47:29was that you had some success
47:31commensurate with your effort. Or
47:33alternatively, you could take the
47:36variant route and you could pull the
47:39wool over your eyes and eyes of your
47:41fellow men and God himself and you could
47:44bring what was second rate to the table.
47:47presuming that the ease that that allows
47:54if the effort was successful would
47:56justify the deception. And that's what
47:59people do who bring what's
48:02second rate to the table.
48:05They
48:10make the prideful presumption that the
48:11offering of what is less than is best
48:14will be sufficient. And it's a foolish
48:18notion because
48:20a moment's reflection informs everyone
48:23that life is far too challenging and
48:25difficult for anything but everything
48:27you have to be enough. And so what
48:30happens to Cain is that he fails and he
48:35could fail and learn
48:37because you can fail and learn and then
48:39the next time you don't fail quite as
48:40much or maybe even you partially succeed
48:42and you can keep doing that. You have to
48:45do that.
48:47You do that if you have some humility,
48:50right? Because you note your failure.
48:51You presume that maybe you know you've
48:54got some sorting out to do. You
49:00make the sacrifice necessary to sort
49:02yourself out and you start walking
49:05however awkwardly and poorly uphill.
49:09Cain doesn't do that. He
49:13gets resentful
49:15instead and he gets resentful enough to
49:19call out God. Now people do this all the
49:21time and it's understandable. You know
49:23there'll be times in your life for
49:24example where something dreadful
49:26happens. Someone you love becomes
49:28seriously ill for example and seems
49:30entirely unfair perhaps. I'm not making
49:34a suggestion that it isn't in this case.
49:38And you're so
49:40upset, disheartened by that that you
49:43lose faith. Not only do you lose faith
49:45in yourself and in existence, but you
49:49see within you emerge a strong
49:50proclivity to shake your hand at the sky
49:52and curse.
49:54And
49:56that's what happens to Cain, although
49:59with much less provocation. Right? He's
50:02bitter because he made second rate
50:05sacrifices and they were rejected. He's
50:08not bitter because life itself
50:11has an element of arbitrariness and
50:13misery associated with it. And so he has
50:15a little chat with God because that's
50:18the sort of guy Cain is. It's not his
50:21fault
50:23that he isn't proceeding happily in the
50:26world like his undeserving successful
50:29brother Abel.
50:31But whose fault is it? Well, obviously
50:33the creator of all things. And so he has
50:36it out with God. And he says
50:38essentially, I'm paraphrasing the story.
50:41Consequence of familiarizing myself with
50:43multiple translations. He says something
50:46like,
50:47"What sort of cosmos did you create
50:50here? I'm breaking myself in half, which
50:53is a complete lie. Trying to get ahead
50:56and nothing's working out for me. and
50:57I've got my brother and no matter where
51:00he goes, the sun shines on him and
51:01everything's perfectly bloody
51:02delightful. It's like, how do you
51:04account for that?
51:07That's the spirit of resentment
51:10orienting his aim. And God says, if you
51:13did well, you'd be accepted.
51:16That's actually kind of a definition.
51:18You know, it's an interesting definition
51:20because the the impetus there is that if
51:24things aren't working out for you
51:27in the most fundamental sense, that's on
51:29you. Now, you might think that's a
51:32pretty dreadful judgment. It's like,
51:33yeah, it's not as dreadful as the
51:35alternative because if you're miserable
51:37because the cosmos itself is structured
51:40badly and set against you, well, you
51:43might as well just throw in the towel
51:44now. But if it turns out that there's
51:47some stupid thing you're doing, no
51:48matter how trivial, that's tilted you in
51:50a direction that you shouldn't be going,
51:52and you could be on your knees with
51:54sufficient humility to discover it,
51:56there might be the possibility that you
51:58could set it right and start wandering
52:00uphill instead of farther down. And
52:02that's essentially what God suggests to
52:05Cain, but he's already possessed, so to
52:10speak, as we'll see, and that's just not
52:12going anywhere. And so, and then God
52:14says something even worse to him, and
52:17that's not so good because what's
52:19already been said is not good. He says
52:22to him,
52:26"If you did well, you'd be accepted, and
52:30you've brought what's insufficient to
52:32the table, and that accounts for your
52:33misery.
52:36And more than that,
52:38sin
52:40crouches at your door like a predatory
52:43sexually aroused animal
52:45and you've invited it in to have its way
52:49with you. It's a brutal metaphor and
52:51it's very interesting one. So sin is an
52:54archery term
52:56has to do with aim.
52:58To sin is to miss the target. Three
53:00different languages. Greek is hamartia.
53:03It means to miss the center of the
53:05target. It means you can miss by not
53:07aiming or you can miss by not being
53:08skillful or you can miss by aiming in
53:10the wrong direction or not at not aiming
53:12at all. To sin means to miss the target.
53:17Sin crouches at your door. The
53:19temptation to miss the target and you
53:22invited it in. So what does that mean?
53:24It's not like you're possessed exactly
53:26by the spirit of resentment. It's not
53:28like it visited you by some accident
53:30while you were unaware.
53:33For something like that to gain control
53:35of your aim,
53:37you have to open the door and invite it
53:39in. And so that's what God tells Cain.
53:42So you're you're miserable in account of
53:45your failure, but you're resentful and
53:48bitter and unhappy because you invited
53:51that spirit to take possession of you.
53:53And then it's worse than that even
53:55because it's not exactly possession. And
53:56you know, you might think, well, you're
53:58kind of naive and you don't know what
53:59you're doing. And you open the door and
54:01something comes in, so to speak, and now
54:02it's in you and that's the, you know,
54:05it's got you. And in a sense, you're
54:08innocent in proportion to your naivity.
54:11But that isn't what God tells Cain. He
54:13says, um,
54:16you invited it in to have its way with
54:18you. It's a sexual metaphor.
54:21And what it means is that he accu God
54:24accuses Cain of inviting in the spirit
54:26of resentment and entering into a
54:28creative relationship with it. Brooding
54:31on it, brooding on it, right? Brooding
54:34on resentment. People do this all the
54:36time. They're they're angry. They're
54:38unhappy. They fantasize. They fantasize
54:41about revenge. They fantasize about how
54:43the world has treated them brutally.
54:45They fantasize about what they could do
54:47to all those people who did them wrong
54:50if they only had the opportunity. They
54:52dwell on that. They revel in it. They
54:54brood on it maybe for thousands of
54:56hours. If you ever wonder how someone
54:59gets to the point when they're 15 that
55:01they can take a
55:04high-owered automatic rifle and shoot up
55:06an elementary school.
55:08That's how. couple of thousands of
55:10hours, couple thousand hours of brooding
55:14and you'll end up in one hell of a dark
55:16place,
55:18right? And so that's the pattern of
55:20Cain. And God tells Cain all that. And
55:22you can bet that doesn't make him very
55:24happy because it's exactly the last
55:27thing he wants to hear. All right?
55:31Your failure is to be laid at your own
55:34feet.
55:35You've multiplied your failure by
55:38the invitation you offered to sin, which
55:41you conspired with to magnify your
55:45bitterness. And that's all on you.
55:51So what happens to Cain?
55:55He kills Abel,
55:57right? He destroys his own ideal. And he
56:01does that to shake his fist at God. And
56:05Cain says, "My punishment is more than I
56:07can bear." Which is always the case for
56:09someone who destroys his own ideal
56:11because how are you going to live
56:12without an ideal? You've got nothing to
56:14aim at. You've got no pathway forward.
56:16You've severed your tie with everything
56:18that could give you hope. You're done.
56:20But that isn't where the story ends.
56:23Cain's descendants become genocidal,
56:27right? Right. And so that's a story of
56:28how what would you say? Second rate
56:31sacrifices open the door to a creative
56:34union with sin that expands into
56:38fratricidal murder and morphs into the
56:42genocidal impulse. And the next story is
56:48the flood.
56:51Right
56:55back to the restaurant.
57:01Well, now we've opened a door, right? We
57:03can see
57:06the background of the forces
57:11that are directing the attention of the
57:14participants in the dinner.
57:19If I want nothing more than what
57:22something low in me demands this second,
57:27I'm going to direct my intention in
57:30accordance with that aim. And that aim
57:32is a reflection of what I've allowed to
57:36possess me. And that's a manifestation
57:39of
57:41the Mcavelian narcissistic
57:45psychopathic sadism
57:48that I've brooded over and allowed to
57:52take possession of me sufficiently to
57:54justify my manipulative aims.
57:59that
58:04battle with temptation that's going on
58:07inside you every time you move your
58:10eyes.
58:12You can imagine this. Imagine this.
58:13Imagine this. So
58:15maybe your date is wearing something
58:17provocative, somewhat provocative, and
58:20your eyes slip down from her face to her
58:23to her
58:25displayed breasts.
58:28and she says something like, "My eyes
58:30are up here." Now, you know that,
58:33so
58:35that can be a game on her part and she
58:37can be provoking that response and she
58:38can be playing the same manipulative
58:41game that you're playing. Although, in
58:43the sexual situation, it's less likely
58:45for women to do that because they pay a
58:47much higher cost for sex. And so in that
58:51particular domain, they're less likely,
58:54women are less likely to engage in
58:55short-term mating strategies because the
58:57cost for them is way way higher. That
59:00doesn't mean that women aren't
59:01characterized by their own set of
59:03proclivities and temptations, but they
59:06vary with sex.
59:10Imagine the couple goes dancing right
59:12now and the woman is evaluating the man
59:15and what's she evaluating him for?
59:20Well,
59:21let's assume for a moment that her aim
59:24is higher and that she'd actually like
59:27to find a decent man
59:30and who
59:32is
59:33pursuing a longer term goal, who's
59:36communally oriented, who is not willing
59:39to sacrifice his future self for his
59:43whim predicated hedonic desires in the
59:45present. Well, how does she evaluate
59:47that? Well, she's going to evaluate in
59:49the dance to some degree because one
59:51thing she's going to find out is whether
59:54her partner has the
59:56self-control, discipline, maturity, aim
1:00:00to keep his damn hands to himself
1:00:03or at least to proceed with
1:00:07next stage exploration in a manner
1:00:09that's voluntary,
1:00:11playful, awake, wise, cautious, and not
1:00:17to precipitous. And that's all being
1:00:20evaluated in the exchange of movements
1:00:22that characterizes a dance. And all of
1:00:25that's a reflection of it's an attempt
1:00:28to use the interaction of the moment to
1:00:32assess the
1:00:35nature of the spirit that characterizes
1:00:38the people in the dance. That's what
1:00:42we're doing when we try to get to know
1:00:44each other. Can I trust you? That's
1:00:46really what I'm trying to figure out.
1:00:49Can I trust you? Can we play together
1:00:52reciprocally and productively across a
1:00:54long span of time, right? Are you mature
1:00:57enough to take your turn at bat and then
1:01:00to give me mine, right? To dance in this
1:01:03way that's mutually beneficial across
1:01:04time. particularly relevant if you want
1:01:06to establish a marriage because it's an
1:01:10infinitely repeating game that at least
1:01:14has to be stable and with God's grace
1:01:17you might say can be a game that
1:01:18improves as it's played which is the
1:01:21ideal situation that's the ideal
1:01:22friendships the ideal relationship
1:01:25if that's the sort of relationship you
1:01:27want that aim is going to dominate your
1:01:30patterns of attention and action right
1:01:32from the beginning and when people are
1:01:34evaluating ating each other
1:01:37for first impressions. They're trying to
1:01:39get a snapshot of the person's
1:01:40character. Your character is your aim
1:01:42across time.
1:01:45That's a good way of thinking about it.
1:01:46We really want to know what someone's
1:01:48aim is across time because that's how we
1:01:50understand them. That's how we evaluate
1:01:53them. That's also how we understand
1:01:55oursel. When you go watch a movie,
1:01:59what you're seeing is the revelation of
1:02:01the character's aim across time. Right?
1:02:04So you see the person in a variety of
1:02:06different situations, in a variety of
1:02:08different snapshots of aim, and you
1:02:11infer from that their overarching aim.
1:02:14Is he a good guy or a bad guy? That's
1:02:16the evaluation you're making, let's say,
1:02:18in the typical movie. Is this a hero or
1:02:20a villain? And you extract that
1:02:24realization by watching how his
1:02:26character manifests itself in different
1:02:27situations, his patterns of attention,
1:02:29his patterns of action. And you do that
1:02:36You might say you do that so you could
1:02:37figure out who to who to cheer for. But
1:02:41that bears examination too because cheer
1:02:43for means something like admire, right?
1:02:45Do you admire the hero if your head's
1:02:48screwed on straight in a movie?
1:02:52Admire,
1:02:54what do you do with someone you admire?
1:02:57Admiration is the
1:02:59instinct to imitate.
1:03:02And so if you go see a movie and you
1:03:03watch the hero and you realize he's a
1:03:05hero and he makes himself manifest on
1:03:07the screen as a hero and you admire that
1:03:09pattern, that's an impetus to imitate.
1:03:11And what you're attempting to do, this
1:03:13is why you want to go to the movie to
1:03:14begin with, is you want to figure out
1:03:15how to embody that spirit. That's what
1:03:18fiction does. Fiction presents you with
1:03:20a sequence of spirits to embody. Yeah.
1:03:24And
1:03:27the dramatist characterizes the aim of
1:03:30the hero. What's the aim of the hero?
1:03:35That's the
1:03:37question that the stories of the Bible
1:03:40are trying to
1:03:42tell. What's the characterization of the
1:03:46proper aim? I outlined already the
1:03:49nature of the improper aim. Let's say
1:03:51just in relationship to the date,
1:03:56what might be the proper aim?
1:04:01We could start with something that's
1:04:03essentially indistinguishable from
1:04:04maturity.
1:04:06Okay, so when you're a toddler, an
1:04:09infant,
1:04:11you
1:04:13your mode of being in the world is very
1:04:14instinctively predicated. You know this
1:04:16if you have 2-year-olds cuz 2-year-olds
1:04:18are fascinating creatures cuz they're
1:04:20they're sort of all in every moment.
1:04:22They're exciting to be around. Although
1:04:24it's quite tiring, [snorts]
1:04:26they are unbelievably happy when they're
1:04:29happy. One of the things that was
1:04:32painful about being a parent was I found
1:04:33myself
1:04:36stopping my children from being so
1:04:38damned happy all the time.
1:04:42Why? because they run around and they're
1:04:43really noisy and they cause all sorts of
1:04:44trouble and they exhaust themselves and
1:04:46they get hurt and so you're always
1:04:47calming them down. It's like don't be
1:04:49quite that happy, right? And positive
1:04:52emotion is associated with impulsivity.
1:04:54And so it's it actually does need to be
1:04:57not so much inhibited. That's not the
1:04:59right that's not the right approach.
1:05:01Regulated. Regulated in relationship to
1:05:03what? Well, a a child might impulsively
1:05:07grab the spoon from like say a
1:05:102-year-old got a 2-year-old child and a
1:05:11one-year-old child and the 2-year-old
1:05:12impulsively grabs the spoon from the
1:05:14one-year-old. And they do that in a fit
1:05:16of enthusiasm, but it's not a good
1:05:18strategy because if you grab other
1:05:20people's stuff, they don't like you. And
1:05:23so, it's a bad long-term strategy. And
1:05:25so one of the things you're doing with
1:05:26your kids is you're telling them, don't
1:05:28let your momentary enthusiasms
1:05:33motivate you to act in a manner that
1:05:35other people find undesirable.
1:05:38Well, why is that arbitrary? It's like
1:05:40not if you want them to have friends,
1:05:43right? Because the definition having a
1:05:45friend means that you've entered into a
1:05:46reciprocal relationship, right? A child
1:05:49children actually can't really have
1:05:50friends till they're about three. And
1:05:52the reason for that is they're actually
1:05:53not, you know, it varies to some degree,
1:05:55but the reason for that is they're
1:05:57actually not capable of reciprocity
1:05:59until they're three. They can't take
1:06:01turns. You can put two-year-olds
1:06:03together in a room and if you're not
1:06:05paying attention, you think they're
1:06:06playing together, but they're not.
1:06:07They're playing side by side. Each child
1:06:09is playing their own game. When a child
1:06:11hits the age of three, they can start
1:06:14what what three-year-olds will do that
1:06:16like a boy and a girl, let's say,
1:06:17they'll get together and they'll have a
1:06:19little negotiation
1:06:22like you have with your wife all the
1:06:24time about how to play house and the boy
1:06:28will ask the girl or vice versa, do you
1:06:29want to play house? And that's the first
1:06:31invitation. And in order for the play to
1:06:33occur, the answer has to be yes. It has
1:06:35to be voluntary. Children who force
1:06:38other children to play their games don't
1:06:40have friends. They're just bullies and
1:06:43they're not popular. And it's not a good
1:06:44strategy. And it's not a good strategy
1:06:46because it doesn't work out very well
1:06:48for the bullies.
1:06:50There's no reciprocity in it. The it
1:06:52won't sustain itself. The other kids
1:06:54will try to get away. And if your kid is
1:06:56a bullying
1:06:59is an impulsive bully, adults won't have
1:07:01anything to do with him either. And then
1:07:02he won't learn anything because adults,
1:07:04you know, they know things. That's what
1:07:06makes them adults. And if the adults
1:07:09around your child don't like your child,
1:07:10it's like your child's in for a dismal
1:07:12time. And so they have to children have
1:07:15to learn to integrate their impulses
1:07:19in a manner that allows for the
1:07:22expression of those instincts
1:07:25in accordance with reciprocity with
1:07:28other people and in relationship to the
1:07:31long term. You can't do something that
1:07:34you want today that's going to cost you
1:07:36tomorrow. You can't do that all the time
1:07:37because you end up paying doing nothing
1:07:39but paying tomorrow for your for today's
1:07:42idiocy. You know, that sort of defines
1:07:44teenagehood in some ways, right?
1:07:46Teenagehood is the state of paying today
1:07:48for yesterday's idiocies. And hopefully
1:07:51as you mature, you stop doing that,
1:07:53right? And there's a sacrifice in that.
1:07:55You sacrifice your immaturity. And
1:07:57there's there's no real difference
1:07:58between that and cortical maturation
1:08:00psychophysiologically speaking. So as
1:08:03you mature, the
1:08:07newer and more
1:08:10sophisticated parts of your brain
1:08:12mature. The parts of your brain that are
1:08:15capable of regulating your behavior in
1:08:18relationship to other people, your
1:08:20friends, your family, the broader
1:08:22community, all of those things. And also
1:08:24regulating what you do now in
1:08:26relationship to what you need to do
1:08:28tomorrow and next week and next month
1:08:30and next year and five years down the
1:08:32road. And you might say in some ways the
1:08:34more mature you are, the longer a span
1:08:37of time across which you calculate the
1:08:39consequences of your behavior and the
1:08:42broader the range of people across which
1:08:44you calculate your impact. And so you
1:08:47know if you start in the process of
1:08:49maturation, you know, maybe you get
1:08:51yourself to the point where you can plan
1:08:52a week ahead and you can take care of
1:08:54yourself. And maybe if you push it and
1:08:57you mature further, then you can plan a
1:08:59year ahead and you can you can start to
1:09:01take care of your wife. And maybe if you
1:09:04get that together to some degree, the
1:09:06two of you can plan five years ahead and
1:09:08you can take care of your kids, right?
1:09:10And so you're you can see that you're
1:09:11establishing a kind of harmony of
1:09:13function across multiple levels of
1:09:17community and time. And that's a good
1:09:19way of defining the target of
1:09:21maturation.
1:09:23The
1:09:26Okay. Now, imagine you're back in the
1:09:28date and you decide that
1:09:32you're tired of being alone. You're
1:09:34looking for someone to what? To what?
1:09:36Let's let's say your aim is high. So,
1:09:38what are you looking for now? Because
1:09:39your aim is high. You're looking for
1:09:41someone to love and vice versa. And so,
1:09:44what does it mean to love someone? Well,
1:09:46it means to
1:09:48it means to care for them. It doesn't
1:09:50mean to protect them and make them
1:09:51secure precisely because that's not good
1:09:53enough. If you love someone, you care
1:09:56for them. You offer them security and
1:09:58predictability. You're honest with them,
1:10:00but you also encourage them, right? And
1:10:02you can see the love that you might have
1:10:04for a child if it's optimized is there's
1:10:06a certain amount of protection that goes
1:10:07along with that because children need a
1:10:09certain amount of shelter. But a fair
1:10:12bit of that is, you know, get the hell
1:10:15out there. Get out there in the world
1:10:16and push yourself and develop yourself
1:10:18and dance on the edge so that you become
1:10:21who you can become. And it's the balance
1:10:23of those two things. That's sort of the
1:10:25balance of the maternal and the
1:10:26paternal, by the way. That balance
1:10:28between security and encouragement.
1:10:30That's like the essence of love. That's
1:10:31a good way of thinking about it.
1:10:35That's one of the characterizations of
1:10:37God in the Old and New Testament,
1:10:40right? So, you could think about that as
1:10:41a spirit that's like the spirit we
1:10:44talked about already, except on the
1:10:45other side of the universe, so to speak,
1:10:47that you could invite in and have
1:10:48possess you, right? And that's what
1:10:51you're called upon to do. That's the
1:10:54essence. That's one of the ways that the
1:10:56essence of religious practice can be
1:10:58conceptualized.
1:11:00um how
1:11:02so you're in your date, you're at your
1:11:03date and you decide that you want to
1:11:05find someone to love and then that
1:11:07directs your actions and your attention
1:11:10because now at the date the frame of
1:11:12reference that you're using to elicit
1:11:15the words you speak and the glances you
1:11:17take and the pattern of dancing, the
1:11:20pattern of attention is that
1:11:23this could be someone I could love.
1:11:26Well, that's going to be a very
1:11:28different date. Now obviously
1:11:33if you're wise that initial
1:11:36investigation is tentative
1:11:38and you look for a dance-like response
1:11:42and the possibility of that love expands
1:11:46as the relationship develops.
1:11:49But
1:11:53it's important to get the aim right at
1:11:54the beginning. That's why this is a
1:11:57leap. Maybe it's worth making. Now,
1:11:59there's an insistence in the biblical
1:12:01corpus that the firstborn is to be
1:12:03sacrificed to God, right? Dedicated to
1:12:06God. Why? Well, because how you
1:12:09establish your aim determines how things
1:12:12go,
1:12:13right? And so, when you undertake
1:12:15something, if you want to do it
1:12:16properly, you aim at what's highest
1:12:20right at the beginning. Right. Right.
1:12:24What's highest? Well, one of the ways we
1:12:26characterized this,
1:12:28you know, if love if if the short-term
1:12:31mating strategy that's associated with
1:12:33the dark tetrd is exploitation for self
1:12:37for narrowly self-centered hydonic
1:12:39purposes. Then love would be the
1:12:41opposite of that. It's something
1:12:44obviously in and of itself. It's we
1:12:46talked about that a little bit.
1:12:49security, predictability, an honest
1:12:51relationship, honest words, forthright
1:12:54actions, no deception, encouragement,
1:12:58and you know, if if you were aiming
1:13:00high, you'd think if you could stand
1:13:03yourself, that that's what you'd want
1:13:05for yourself, right? So, it it's funny
1:13:07because you might think that
1:13:10if you are doing nothing but
1:13:13manipulating
1:13:15someone to get them to crawl in bed with
1:13:17you as soon as quick possible, you're
1:13:19being selfish. But it's it's a very
1:13:21strange use of the word self because
1:13:24it's not any better for you than it is
1:13:26for them. If you were being properly
1:13:28selfish, you'd search with every glance
1:13:32for everything that was best for you as
1:13:35well as for them. And that's a real
1:13:38optimization. Aiming up and treating the
1:13:41other person as if they're you, right?
1:13:45That's the great commandment to do both
1:13:47of those. That's the commandment that
1:13:49Christ posits as the source of the ten
1:13:53commandments that are handed to Moses
1:13:55themselves, right? Upward aim, ra rad
1:13:59radical reciprocity,
1:14:01right? And that's the opposite of the
1:14:03spirit of bitter exploitation. And
1:14:06that's operating in the background while
1:14:09you're at the date, too, as it is
1:14:11operating in the background with
1:14:13everything you do and every word you
1:14:15utter. And that's the underlying
1:14:17religious landscape. Now that
1:14:20spirit that aims up or characterize it
1:14:22some other ways.
1:14:27It's the spirit towards which proper
1:14:29sacrifice is directed.
1:14:32These are definitions. That's what
1:14:33happens in the story of Cain and Abel.
1:14:35Abel offers his sacrifices upward. Well,
1:14:38if you're going to establish a long-term
1:14:41beneficial, reciprocal relationship with
1:14:43someone you love,
1:14:45you have to offer what's best in order
1:14:48to manage that. And you have to
1:14:50sacrifice everything that interferes to
1:14:53pursue that goal. That's also why
1:14:55there's such emphasis in on sacrifice in
1:14:58the biblical corpus is because there's
1:15:00no difference between sacrifice and
1:15:02work. And the work you engage in towards
1:15:06an end is the sacrifices that you make
1:15:08in relation to that aim. And that's the
1:15:11pattern of your life. Human life is
1:15:13sacrificial because we work. There's no
1:15:16difference between work and sacrifice.
1:15:18Right? Work is the sacrifice of the
1:15:20moment to the community and the future.
1:15:23Right. Right. So what's the highest form
1:15:25of sacrifice? Well, that's the other
1:15:26mystery that the biblical stories
1:15:28attempt to unfold. In the final
1:15:30analysis, the offering is child and
1:15:33self, right? That's why Abraham is
1:15:36called upon to sacrifice his son.
1:15:38Everything is to be given up to what's
1:15:40highest. And the pattern of the
1:15:42crucifixion is self-sacrifice. And the
1:15:44crucifixion itself is the combination of
1:15:47the sacrifice of son and self. Right?
1:15:49It's an exemplification of the highest
1:15:51conceivable form of sacrifice. And what
1:15:53does it represent? It means
1:15:57everything is to be offered up in
1:15:59service to what's properly highest.
1:16:02That's the core of community. That's why
1:16:07in town based on the European model,
1:16:10which is in turn based on the
1:16:11Judeo-Christian model, you have a
1:16:13cathedral at the center of the town or
1:16:16church in the shape of a cross. Right?
1:16:18That's the place of self-sacrifice, the
1:16:20cross. There's an altar in the church
1:16:23and the altar is the place of sacrifice.
1:16:25Why? Because community is founded on
1:16:27sacrifice,
1:16:29right? And then the question is what's
1:16:31the highest form of sacrifice? Well, we
1:16:33walked through that already. It's the
1:16:36willingness to offer your best. Well,
1:16:38what's the core of your best with
1:16:39everything you are? Right. Right. And
1:16:43that's the
1:16:46what does that mean? A society that's p
1:16:49that's predicated on the spirit of
1:16:51voluntary self-sacrifice
1:16:54does not require a tyrant to govern
1:16:56itself.
1:16:59Right? That's something to know. And so
1:17:02one of the things you might ask yourself
1:17:06when the tyrants's looming
1:17:08like now is to what degree do you make
1:17:13manifest the sacrifice that no longer no
1:17:16longer requires the hand of the tyrant.
1:17:19And that's literally the sacrifice of
1:17:21everything. Right? That's the
1:17:22willingness. It's very straightforward.
1:17:25All the responsibility that you do not
1:17:27take upon yourself will be taken from
1:17:29you by tyrants and used against you.
1:17:33Right in your country, I'm a Canadian.
1:17:35I've watched your country a lot. Your
1:17:37country knew this better than any
1:17:39country that's ever been. I would say
1:17:41the reason that you have been so
1:17:43stunningly free and prosperous for so
1:17:45long, even though that's threatened now,
1:17:47is because your country was predicated
1:17:51on that sacrificial responsibility.
1:17:55Right. And you weren't
1:17:57inhabitants of the land of Cain because
1:18:00one of the things that's remarkable
1:18:01about your country, and I've been in
1:18:03many countries, is that
1:18:06you people actually admire genuine
1:18:08success. Now, there's variability in
1:18:11that. There's no shortage of resentment
1:18:12even in your culture. But all things
1:18:14considered, this was the shining city on
1:18:17the hill where the spirit of Abel was
1:18:21celebrated.
1:18:22Right. Right? And look what happened.
1:18:25Look at the miracles that took place as
1:18:27a consequence of that. Right? The freest
1:18:30and richest and fairest nation that was
1:18:33ever established. Established not on the
1:18:35basis of the rights that every fool now
1:18:39clamors to have re what would you say
1:18:43respected and regarded, but on the
1:18:45responsibilities that made the citizens
1:18:48of the United States neither slaves nor
1:18:50tyrants.
1:18:52Right? And that's a reflection. And
1:18:54we'll stop with this. This is another
1:18:55characterization of God. In the in the
1:18:58opening chapters of Genesis, God is
1:19:02presented as the spirit of Logos that
1:19:04broods upon the waters prior to the
1:19:08emergence of the order. That's good. The
1:19:12waters, it's a mystery because the
1:19:14waters are there before creation occurs.
1:19:16And so, a critical reader will be
1:19:19stumped by the order of affairs. But
1:19:22water in the biblical context in the
1:19:24initial act of creation
1:19:28it isn't water in the sense that we
1:19:30understand water now the word is
1:19:32actually to vabu and in the Hebrew that
1:19:35word means something like confusion and
1:19:38possibility
1:19:40right and it's it's presented as water
1:19:43because possibility is deep like water
1:19:46is deep and possibility gives rise to
1:19:50form Like water bears form, right? And
1:19:53water
1:19:55out of water life emerges. And out of
1:19:58possibility,
1:19:59creation emerges. And what do I mean by
1:20:02that? Possibility is what you confront
1:20:04when you wake up in the morning.
1:20:07It's what you can wrestle into the shape
1:20:10of the world as a consequence of your
1:20:12decisions during the day.
1:20:14The logos that inhabits you, which is
1:20:16the spirit that's made in the image of
1:20:18God, is the consciousness within you
1:20:20that wrestles like God himself at the
1:20:23beginning of time with possibility and
1:20:26brings forth order in consequence. The
1:20:29order that's good, if the aim is upward,
1:20:32if the aim is towards love and the
1:20:34effort is undertaken in the spirit of
1:20:36truth, the order created is good or very
1:20:39good. That's what you do if you're a
1:20:40good father in the confines of your
1:20:42home. You establish a little walled
1:20:44garden. That's what paradise is, a
1:20:46walled garden, right? Where everyone a
1:20:50walled garden that keeps everyone secure
1:20:52and encourages them to the point where
1:20:54they can play
1:20:57forever, so to speak. The same idea is
1:21:00walking with God.
1:21:03There's an insistence in Genesis 1 that
1:21:05human beings are made in the image of
1:21:07that creator.
1:21:10And there's an insistence that that
1:21:12creative spirit is the same spirit that
1:21:17bears the cross of catastrophe up the
1:21:21hill of suffering.
1:21:24And what does that mean? It means that
1:21:26in so far as you bear the responsibility
1:21:28for the world on your shoulders that
1:21:30you're participating as an image of God
1:21:32in the creation of the order that's
1:21:35good. That's what that all means, right?
1:21:38And the idea that you have intrinsic
1:21:40value, which is the idea that your
1:21:42society is predicated upon, right, made
1:21:45in the image of God, with inviable
1:21:48rights and responsibilities that
1:21:50transcend even the state. This isn't a
1:21:52gift from the government. It's not a
1:21:54gift from other people. It's a
1:21:55reflection of your intrinsic nature.
1:21:57Why?
1:22:02Because your aim is the
1:22:05because the world depends on your aim.
1:22:08That's why that's true and that's a
1:22:11terrible thing to know and now you know
1:22:14it.
1:22:16Well, thank you very much.
1:22:31>> Well,
1:22:33thank you for putting up with that.
1:22:36All right, Mick. Way we go.
1:22:48Is it working now? It's working now.
1:22:52>> Thanks for the claps. The two people.
1:22:56[laughter]
1:22:57Oh, thanks.
1:23:00That's not that I didn't mean to ask for
1:23:03that accidentally.
1:23:04I didn't know if I get from the
1:23:06restaurant to heaven and hell and back.
1:23:08>> Yeah.
1:23:10>> Yeah. Every day basically.
1:23:14>> Okay.
1:23:16I've chosen some questions. We have
1:23:20I have been told we have 17 minutes. So,
1:23:22we're going to get through as many
1:23:23questions as we can, which knowing dad
1:23:26will be one.
1:23:28[laughter]
1:23:37H [clears throat]
1:23:38okay.
1:23:40Uh
1:23:43so a bunch of people wanted this
1:23:46question and I'm curious about it too.
1:23:48It was is there something specific that
1:23:51you've wrestled with God about?
1:23:53something that comes to mind.
1:24:05Yeah. Well, Jeff, yes. It's a hard
1:24:09question to answer because
1:24:11it's true all the time. You know, I
1:24:15mean, one thing I do, for example, when
1:24:17I'm speaking on stage is
1:24:22weigh the words,
1:24:25you know. So, what's the aim?
1:24:29Well, my aim in part is to get somewhere
1:24:32further, right? Further in my
1:24:34investigation
1:24:36because it's a communal enterprise, my
1:24:38aim is also to take everybody along with
1:24:40me. And that's a challenge. So that's
1:24:43ridiculously entertaining. It's it's
1:24:45it's it's like juggling plates or it's
1:24:49more like juggling fire really. But
1:24:53and so that's a wrestling match. You can
1:24:56you can come to learn that
1:25:01you wrestle with God when you speak.
1:25:04Your aim with your words. Your words are
1:25:07arrows that should be
1:25:09striking the center of the target. And
1:25:12you can feel that. You can and you can
1:25:14really learn to you can really learn to
1:25:17feel that the words that are true put
1:25:21the foundation that is firm under your
1:25:23feet. The words that are false fragment
1:25:26you and
1:25:28allow you to be washed away when the
1:25:30storms come. And you can feel that with
1:25:32every word. It's a terrifying thing to
1:25:35learn because the first thing you learn
1:25:37is that almost everything you say is a
1:25:38lie. And that's a terrifying thing to
1:25:41learn.
1:25:43When God
1:25:46banishes,
1:25:49no, when God bars the way to Adam and
1:25:53Eve,
1:25:54bars the way to paradise from Adam and
1:25:57Eve,
1:25:59it that story is often interpreted as
1:26:01God banishing Adam and Eve because of
1:26:03their sin. But that's not exactly right.
1:26:04You see, that's not exactly right. Adam
1:26:08and Eve are outside paradise because of
1:26:10their pride. They bit off more than they
1:26:13could chew. And and now they're
1:26:16alienated from God. Because pride
1:26:18alienates people from God. Now, there's
1:26:20a pathway back to God, so to speak,
1:26:23pathway to back to the paradise, back to
1:26:25the kingdom of heaven. That's another
1:26:26way of thinking about it.
1:26:29But the pathway is barred by a sword
1:26:31that by terrible monsters, cherubim, and
1:26:35by a sword that is on fire that turns
1:26:37every which way.
1:26:40Well, why? Well, what's a sword that
1:26:43turns every which way? Well, it's a
1:26:45blade. And what does a blade do? Well, a
1:26:46blade slices and cuts. And what does
1:26:50something on fire do? It burns. And And
1:26:52so what does a burning blade do? It cuts
1:26:55and burns. And what does a burning blade
1:26:57that turns every which way do? It cuts
1:27:00and burns no matter. It cuts and burns
1:27:03everything away. What do you mean
1:27:05everything? Everything not fit to be in
1:27:07paradise.
1:27:10So you pay attention to your words and
1:27:12you learn 95% of what you say is a lie.
1:27:15All that has to go.
1:27:18And so that's a terrible thing to
1:27:19understand.
1:27:22Uh the alternative is worse because
1:27:26the pathway to hell is paved with lies
1:27:29and hell itself is the dominion of the
1:27:32lie. And you might say, "Well, I don't
1:27:35believe that." It's like, well, first of
1:27:37all, that's only because you don't have
1:27:38any idea what you're talking about.
1:27:41And second, you can make the case in a
1:27:44manner that's not the least theological.
1:27:48A totalitarian state isn't freedom
1:27:51loving innocents striving toward the
1:27:53light dominated by the brute Hitler or
1:27:56Stalin. One man can't control 20 million
1:27:59people. A totalitarian state is the
1:28:02state that exists when every single
1:28:04person in the state bar none lies about
1:28:08absolutely everything
1:28:12all the time to themselves and to
1:28:14everyone else. And that's hell. And if
1:28:18that's not hell enough for you, it's
1:28:19like, well, you know, have it your way.
1:28:22Have it your way.
1:28:24You know,
1:28:26when God comes to Abraham and tells him
1:28:30that he's going to destroy Sodom and
1:28:31Gomorrah, he tells Abraham that if well,
1:28:36Abraham makes a bargain with God. And he
1:28:39says, "Well, I don't think you should
1:28:40destroy the the cities regardless of
1:28:44their sin." And God says, "Yeah, I think
1:28:46they think it's time to
1:28:49lay some waste." And Abraham says, "What
1:28:51if there's innocent people in the city?"
1:28:53And God says, "Well, yeah, I don't think
1:28:56there is." And Abraham says, "Well, what
1:28:58if I find 40?" And God says, "Oh, hey,
1:29:0140? No problem. If you can find 40, I'll
1:29:05spare the city." And Abraham, who's kind
1:29:07of pushy, says, "Well, how about 30?"
1:29:11And God says,
1:29:14"Okay." And I think Abraham bargains
1:29:16them down to 10. If there's 10 people to
1:29:19tell the truth in the city, then it'll
1:29:21escape
1:29:24destruction.
1:29:26Well, what does that story mean? You're
1:29:28called upon to be one of the 10, right?
1:29:30That's what that story means. It means
1:29:32more than that.
1:29:34It means if there's 10 people in a city
1:29:37who still tell the truth,
1:29:40that's enough to save the city from
1:29:42destruction. Right? That's how important
1:29:44it is to say what you have to say. You
1:29:47want that hammered home. You look at the
1:29:49story of Jonah. Jonah is called upon by
1:29:52God to utter the words of the of truth
1:29:54that will redeem the city of his
1:29:56enemies, Nineveh. And Job Jonah thinks,
1:29:59"Yeah, I don't think so. I'm not going
1:30:00to the city of my enemies, 150,000 of
1:30:03them, to tell them God is outraged and
1:30:06that they're in trouble. I just assume
1:30:08they're wiped out anyways, and there's
1:30:11150,000 people, 150,000 of them, like
1:30:14one of me. So, he does what any sensible
1:30:18person would do, hypothetically, and
1:30:20makes tracks in the opposite direction,
1:30:22jumps on a boat, and gets the hell out
1:30:24of there. And unfortunately, God is not
1:30:28so easily thwarted. And the ship is
1:30:31enveloped by a storm. And what that
1:30:33means is that if you run away when you
1:30:35have something to say, then the ship
1:30:38that bears you will be threatened.
1:30:40That's what that means. And so the
1:30:43sailors
1:30:44are concerned about this occurrence and
1:30:47they decide there's probably someone on
1:30:48board who isn't right with their God.
1:30:51and they cast lots and they choose Jonah
1:30:55as the victim of interrogation and he's
1:30:57asleep because that's what people do
1:30:58when they flee from their conscience is
1:31:00they fall into unconsciousness so that
1:31:03they don't have to contend with the
1:31:05reality of their refusal. And they wake
1:31:07him up and they say, "Well, the ship's
1:31:10in peril and the waves are rising and we
1:31:12think maybe you're not exactly right
1:31:14with your God." And Jonah says, "Matter
1:31:16of fact, I was told to do something."
1:31:19And that's the voice of conscience, by
1:31:21the way. And and I didn't. And this the
1:31:25sailors say, "Well, who's your God?"
1:31:28Because they're thinking it's like God
1:31:30of the local cavern or something. And
1:31:32Jonah says, "Well, he created the
1:31:36heavens and the earth." And the sailors
1:31:38think, "Well, you probably shouldn't
1:31:40piss him off then." And
1:31:45he tells them to throw them o throw them
1:31:47overboard because he knows there's no
1:31:48hope. And the sailors try mightily to
1:31:50reach the shore but they can't because
1:31:54God's not so easily thwarted. So they
1:31:56throw Joan overboard. And you know, the
1:31:58story could end there because what that
1:32:01story means is that if you flee from the
1:32:04dictates of your conscience, if you
1:32:06refuse to bring forth the words that
1:32:08you're called upon to say, then you put
1:32:10the ship of state in peril and you'll
1:32:13end up
1:32:14in and your own life will end up
1:32:17threatened.
1:32:19And you might think, well, that's pretty
1:32:20damn dismal. It's like, that's not
1:32:22nearly bad enough. That isn't even
1:32:25that's just where it starts.
1:32:28Because the beast from hell itself comes
1:32:30up and takes Jonah in its jaws and pulls
1:32:32him down to the bottom of things where
1:32:33he's
1:32:35where he lies for three days, right? In
1:32:37hell
1:32:39because that's the next thing that
1:32:40happens if you're quiet when you're told
1:32:42when you're called upon to speak, right?
1:32:46And so,
1:32:51no, we'll leave it at that.
1:33:02Okay, we got two in.
1:33:06Uh,
1:33:14how do you forgive someone that's
1:33:16wronged you greatly without becoming a
1:33:18martyr and continuing to let them have a
1:33:20negative impact on your life?
1:33:26Well, forgiveness is
1:33:31forgiveness is a very complicated
1:33:34matter.
1:33:35No, if you're
1:33:39pursuing the religious path in the
1:33:43traditional Judeo-Christian manner, when
1:33:46you ask God for forgiveness, you
1:33:48confess,
1:33:51repent,
1:33:52and atone,
1:33:54right? What does confess mean? Well,
1:33:56look, if you if you you and I have had a
1:33:58scrap about something and I feel
1:33:59betrayed
1:34:02and I want to set things right, I want
1:34:03to find out like, well, what's the story
1:34:06here? What happened? And if I'm have any
1:34:10sense, I'm going to confess my part in
1:34:11it, too, right? Because if there's
1:34:13something that's standing between us,
1:34:15it'd be convenient if it was just you.
1:34:18But there's a reasonable probability,
1:34:20well, there's some probability that it
1:34:22was just me, right? And if I don't want
1:34:24to replicate the mistake, I want might
1:34:26want to find that out. It was a very
1:34:27useful thing to know if you're fighting
1:34:29with your wife or your husband. It's
1:34:30like,
1:34:32well, it's probably them,
1:34:34but it might be you. And so why bother
1:34:37finding out? Well, cuz then you don't
1:34:38have to be stupid again,
1:34:41right? So you want to confess, here's
1:34:44what I think happened. And you know, if
1:34:46you're if you have a real dispute with
1:34:48someone and they just tell you exactly
1:34:50what happened, like honestly, you're 80%
1:34:53of the way to repairing the relationship
1:34:56right there. Like often what you want to
1:34:58know from someone is do they at least
1:35:01understand what the hell happened,
1:35:03right? And then and but but then let's
1:35:06assume that I don't know, we have a
1:35:08scrap and we decide it's like 60% you
1:35:11and 40% me. And so then what do we do?
1:35:13It's like, well, I figure out what I
1:35:15have to offer you to
1:35:18I I have to indicate that I'm sorry.
1:35:20That's the repentance. Then I have to
1:35:22atone for it. It's like, well, what what
1:35:23do I need to do to set things right? And
1:35:25that's kind of a two-pronged issue. It's
1:35:27like, what do I have to do so I feel I
1:35:29can forgive myself, right? Because you
1:35:31you hold yourself accountable if you
1:35:33have any sense. And then I have to
1:35:34figure out, well, what do you need so
1:35:36that we can put this behind us? And then
1:35:38we have to negotiate that. And then you
1:35:40put it behind you. And then you have a
1:35:43friend instead of an enemy. And that's a
1:35:45good deal unless you want to collect
1:35:46enemies and that's that's not wise. One
1:35:49enemy is a lot of enemies but you know
1:35:52five or six and you're pretty much done.
1:35:54And so
1:35:57that's the process of forgiveness. It's
1:35:59very very complicated. Now you might say
1:36:01well someone did me wrong ago and I need
1:36:04to let go. That's that's different.
1:36:07That's a different I mean that's that's
1:36:10you you can't have the repentance or the
1:36:12atonement then on the part of that
1:36:14person. Maybe they're no longer alive
1:36:15for example. Then usually what you have
1:36:17to do is well you have to figure out
1:36:19what you contributed to it the same way
1:36:21that you would if you were actually
1:36:23discussing it with someone.
1:36:25And then you have to understand
1:36:29what it was that brings in a state of
1:36:31affairs like that about so that when you
1:36:34move forward into the future, you're not
1:36:35likely to fall prey to the same
1:36:37circumstance because otherwise it'll
1:36:40it'll just haunt you. It haunts you
1:36:42partly because you're set up so that
1:36:44once you fall into a pit once,
1:36:47anytime you approach the territory
1:36:49defined by that pit, you're going to be
1:36:51apprehensive. If you haven't figured out
1:36:53a way of navigating around that
1:36:55obstacle, the obstacle signals threat to
1:36:58you forever. Forever. It'll never go
1:37:00away. It'll never go away. And so, you
1:37:04can clean all that up, but it you have
1:37:06to do a very careful analysis. I I'll
1:37:08give you an example of that. So often
1:37:11soldiers who suffer from post-traumatic
1:37:13stress disorder, it's always often
1:37:15conceptualized, by the way, as a severe
1:37:17moral injury, they often develop PTSD
1:37:20because not because of something
1:37:21terrible that happened to them, but
1:37:23because of something terrible they saw
1:37:26themsel,
1:37:28right? Because you can be a naive, you
1:37:30know, corn-fed Iowa and end up in a
1:37:32foreign land in a very dreadful
1:37:34circumstance and watch yourself do
1:37:36something absolutely ungodly and really
1:37:38enjoy it. And then you'll understand
1:37:41very rapidly that you know absolutely
1:37:43nothing about yourself or the depth of
1:37:45the soul or the nature of human beings.
1:37:48And
1:37:50your attempt to live forward in that
1:37:52state of ignorance will be
1:37:53indistinguishable from trauma. And then
1:37:56you might say, well, how do you recover
1:37:58from that? And the answer is you develop
1:38:00a philosophy of evil that's as deep as
1:38:03your sin. That's how. Yeah. And then
1:38:06maybe you can forgive yourself because
1:38:08you can see your capacity for the
1:38:11commission of sadistic atrocity, you
1:38:14know, in the light of the eternal battle
1:38:16between good and evil that characterizes
1:38:19the cosmic landscape. It's something
1:38:21like that, you know, and the atheist
1:38:23types think, well, no, it's like
1:38:28if you think that you've never dealt
1:38:29with someone who's had a severe moral
1:38:31injury, because if you ever have, you'll
1:38:33find out very soon that the landscape of
1:38:35good and evil is a lot more real than
1:38:37you might think. And if you don't know
1:38:39that, you should be on your knees every
1:38:41second of your bloody life thanking God
1:38:43that that terrible knowledge has not
1:38:46been yet revealed to you. And yeah,
1:38:49that's for sure.
1:38:58>> One more.
1:38:59>> Sure.
1:39:00>> Even though I was told not to do that.
1:39:02Okay. Okay.
1:39:02>> I'll be quick. Okay.
1:39:03>> Find a quick one if you can.
1:39:05>> Okay. This is kind of a cute one. We'll
1:39:08see if we can keep it cute.
1:39:11My My wife and I are having our first
1:39:13kid in four weeks. Congratulations.
1:39:16Neither of us have a relationship with
1:39:18God but want to raise our kids in
1:39:19church. Please give your advice.
1:39:22>> Oh, you can do a good thing badly.
1:39:25>> Yeah,
1:39:26>> I mean that. I mean that. Look, look, it
1:39:30it's very much in keeping with what we
1:39:31talked about tonight.
1:39:33it be regardless of the state of your
1:39:36religious belief or lack thereof, you
1:39:38can make the decision to
1:39:41place your child in a situation where he
1:39:43or she can learn the
1:39:45fundamental stories of our culture. And
1:39:48you can't be you can't be a citizen of
1:39:52the West without knowing those
1:39:53fundamental stories. Those are the same
1:39:55thing like inhabiting that narrative
1:39:58world and being a citizen of the West.
1:40:00Those are the same thing. And so you can
1:40:04provide them with that. And every single
1:40:06person, and this will include your own
1:40:08children, have to wrestle with God
1:40:13within the confines of their own soul.
1:40:15And you can facilitate that process by
1:40:18educating them in the traditions of your
1:40:22people, so to speak. And
1:40:26so go to church and
1:40:31listen and see if you can learn and
1:40:35participate in the community. And if the
1:40:38church isn't everything you think it
1:40:41could or should be, then you can work to
1:40:43rectify that. And
1:40:46that's a useful thing to do, too. And
1:40:49you know, I didn't bring my kids to
1:40:51church when they were kids. And
1:40:53that was a mistake.
1:40:55>> There was one time we went to church.
1:40:56Mom brought us to church
1:40:59and we went to a church in Toronto and
1:41:02they're all woke. They're really woke
1:41:04now. But this was like 15 years ago. I
1:41:07think I was in grade six and they
1:41:08started the Lord's Prayer with our
1:41:10mother, father who art in heaven and we
1:41:12just got up and left. That was our that
1:41:15was our experience with church growing
1:41:17up.
1:41:18>> Right. [clears throat] Right. Well, and
1:41:19you know, you could say too, and and I
1:41:22certainly would have been likely to
1:41:24think that way at that time, that if you
1:41:26go to a church and it's woke, then you
1:41:28should leave. And that might be the
1:41:30case, unless they're all like that, in
1:41:32which case you're in some trouble. But
1:41:33the alternative
1:41:36strategy is to
1:41:38take back the territory,
1:41:41right? And if you don't, well,
1:41:44all of you, all of you have to think
1:41:46about this in relationship to your duty
1:41:48to your community because part of the
1:41:51reason that the woke mob has prevailed
1:41:54is because the responsible people
1:41:58abdicated their responsibility. And so
1:42:02why are the school boards full of woke
1:42:08of confused woke activists?
1:42:12Well, because they took the job. And so
1:42:17there you have it. And if you want to do
1:42:19something about that, think what should
1:42:21be done? It's like take the job, right?
1:42:24And so and that's the only way out of
1:42:26this mess. So it's the same on the
1:42:30church front.
1:42:33You know, you have a responsibility
1:42:36to rebuild. Well, what are you going to
1:42:38do? You're either going to rebuild the
1:42:39damaged institutions of your community
1:42:41or you're going to abandon them. Those
1:42:43are your options. And if you abandon
1:42:46them,
1:42:48well, then what?
1:42:50Then what do you have? You're in the
1:42:52desert then. And the idol worshippers
1:42:56come calling pretty quickly when you're
1:42:58lost in the desert, as you can see if
1:43:01you look.
1:43:02And on that cheery note,
1:43:06thank you everyone.

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