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How to Make it on YouTube in 2026 (Alex Hormozi interview) — Transcript

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0:00if I had that size audience i' would
0:01already be play put up or shut up when I
0:03met you 3 years ago you have just
0:05started on your great journey since then
0:07millions of followers the reason people
0:09followed me was because the systems were
0:11good and so because the systems were
0:13good they didn't need me for the systems
0:14to work when I look at Creator space
0:16who've successfully exec on this it's
0:18actually very minimal I actually think
0:20creators are horrendously bad at picking
0:22product your constraint is not that
0:24you're a 97 out of 100 on content it's
0:26that you're a zero out of 100 on
0:27monetization that's a powerful concept
0:29right there I think that when people
0:30promote anything they get backlashed
0:32because anything that you give me that
0:33is not free you die you're saying that
0:35people had followers but they didn't
0:37have influence the point of short form
0:38is one thing which is to drive them to
0:40long form would you invest in content
0:43creators Alex formosi might be the first
0:46Creator billionaire and he's built his
0:47business really differently from other
0:49YouTubers that might follow like Mr
0:50Beast today Alex shares why most
0:52creators aren't a broken business model
0:54the five ways to make money from content
0:56and how to turn your social media into a
0:57real business if you're a Creator
0:59wanting to grow listen to this pod for
1:0121 secrets from horoi on how he did it
1:03and if you want to learn more from other
1:05creators too join our Discord every week
1:07we do live talks with Creator experts
1:09like Jack kti of patreon Humphrey Yang
1:11and Jenny Hoyos on topics like growth
1:14monetization and scaling your content
1:16Link in BIO below When I Met You 3 years
1:18ago you had just started on your creator
1:20Journey since then millions of followers
1:23cover 250 million of revenue for
1:24portfolio companies is this where you
1:26wanted to be I don't consider myself a
1:28traditional Creator like I I had
1:30businesses and have businesses outside
1:32of this that aren't my face and anything
1:34but I saw where just the the monster
1:37amount of Impressions that social media
1:39was getting and giving away for free and
1:42I was like this is the most insane thing
1:44I've ever seen and to this day I still
1:45think it's crazy that like we can get a
1:47100 million a billion Impressions a
1:49quarter for free I think about creators
1:51in two buckets yeah I think there are uh
1:54the words guys and then there are the
1:56video guys and then the Crossovers audio
1:59that I'm a little bit of both I started
2:01making YouTube videos and I wrote a book
2:03basically about the same time yeah and
2:05then the book kind of took on its own
2:07you know growth path yeah and then the
2:10videos also did too the nature of how
2:13I've done things is that I'm all about
2:15business process and system yeah the
2:17reason people followed me was because
2:19the systems were good and so because the
2:22systems were good they didn't need me
2:24for the systems to work whereas many
2:28businesses don't have that and a lot of
2:30people follow the Creator for other
2:32reasons that are not that that are less
2:33duplicable it's fascinating too because
2:35what you've built it's a private Equity
2:37Firm in a way but most private Equity
2:39firms add value by cutting and slashing
2:40operations in a way you're adding value
2:43because one here's the business process
2:44you to run the influence you've now
2:46built about talking about faceless
2:48systems now you've been able to bring in
2:50your face to increase it so yeah and I
2:52think what you said at the very
2:53beginning which is that like
2:54entrepreneurs are realizing just the
2:55amount of attention that's here and this
2:56is just a way to advertise your business
2:58I mean that was the that was the entire
2:59thesis SP acis.com was I'm a big fan of
3:01something old and something new so like
3:03something old private Equity with
3:05something new social media and like how
3:07do we how do we bridge that how do we
3:09how do we merge that now because there's
3:10been old school I mean Warren Buffett's
3:12an influencer for sure he's just Legacy
3:14Media um Ray do is an influencer now
3:16he's starting you know he's making his
3:18Tik toks and things like that um naval's
3:20an influencer of course these guys get
3:22deal flow because they're out there you
3:24know they're they're talking about
3:25business and so they get it I just took
3:29what they were doing just like did a lot
3:31more what type of companies we look for
3:34the process overall um those things have
3:37changed a lot from when we probably
3:38spoke three years ago um because three
3:42years ago I was looking at basically
3:44running the gym launch Playbook that we
3:46did taking a company that has basically
3:49digital media driven that is vertically
3:51integrated education around a specific
3:53sector yeah and then wrap in business
3:56services and then be able to package
3:58that because you have Revenue retention
3:59and then sell it right um and transition
4:02it from a face driven bus to a kind of
4:04Consulting business that's that's in one
4:07Niche right it's a difficult operational
4:10challenge
4:12for for for face driven businesses to
4:15remove the face and I think that makes
4:16sense like Taylor Swift isn't looking
4:18for somebody to like step in and sing
4:20for her there's a tension in what you
4:22said you became the face for faceless
4:26systems your premise was I have these
4:28processes that work 100 million offers
4:30100 million leads you don't need Alex
4:33rosi to literally be doing this for from
4:35exactly it's to empower you to do it as
4:38you said the business model of the
4:40creater is very different kir talking
4:42about how there's an inverted pyramid
4:44where the creater is almost the
4:46Chokehold the gate point for everything
4:48because you need Taylor Swift to be
4:49there yeah now you are an
4:52influencer and so it's funny because
4:55you're like well I'm going to help you
4:56do a system where you don't need me but
4:57now people follow you for that I think
4:59Once Upon a Time there's a conception of
5:01a Creator as like the Casey kns at alter
5:04like oh hey I make money to make content
5:07where I've started is on YouTube and the
5:09advertising the brand deals is what
5:11supports me I think now you're seeing
5:14creators becoming entrepreneurs and KH
5:17is just becoming how they Market
5:18themselves in some ways like the
5:20reputation of the Creator yeah was
5:23branded if you will like in a figurative
5:25sense like branded by the early creators
5:31which is not reflective of how you
5:33advertise a business today yes for
5:35creators who want to fall in your
5:36footsteps do you think you'd advise them
5:39to double down on the creative
5:40distribution side of what they do or to
5:42try and get better at the B building
5:44business piece of what you do really
5:46interesting question um I think it
5:48depends on your goal so if your goal is
5:51to make money then learn the money game
5:53if your goal is to make content then get
5:55you know just keep making content I had
5:56a conversation with other Uber creators
5:58not that long ago
6:00and we operate at acis.com off the
6:02theory of constraints and so the
6:04positive of the theory of constraints is
6:05that any system will grow until this
6:07constrain and they grow further and so
6:09um you know these these gentlemen had
6:12like subcribed to that and they said hey
6:13Alex I think we understand what our
6:15constraint is you know we have our our
6:17our media and our content creation
6:18machine the the constraint of it is like
6:20we need better editors for whatever so
6:23we can get even more leverage on our
6:24time I said what's the goal and they
6:27said uh we want to make money and
6:30I remember kind of like smiling about
6:31this and I was like your constraint is
6:33not that you're a 97 out of 100 on
6:35content it's that you're a zero out of
6:37100 on monetization if you don't care
6:39really about making money and your
6:40passion is making videos about whatever
6:41it is that you make videos about then
6:43like congrat you won congratulations
6:45you're making videos
6:46about this was yeah you were like if I
6:48could just quit my job and make videos
6:49about Dungeons and Dragons then like I
6:51would do it and it's like awesome you're
6:52won like so now where you from here but
6:55there are creators that I've talked to
6:56who I'm like hey so what do you want
6:57they're like dude I just want to make
6:58money and if that's the case then you
7:00got to learn the game in 2024 you
7:02started working with school yeah and so
7:03I think it's an interesting question
7:04using yourself as a case study number
7:06one the product that you're associating
7:08with it's not one that you like built it
7:10all nuts and bolts yourself no it was
7:12very much here's an existing company but
7:15I can grow it and so it come kind of
7:17comes down for creators to question of
7:19hey like do you really want to lean into
7:22being an entrepreneur and do it yourself
7:24or do you just want to do a brand deal
7:26this is gonna be really interesting so
7:28because I've given a huge amount of
7:29thought to this so I uh I I'll see if I
7:32can get the number right but the Creator
7:34paths exist on a spectrum basically five
7:36paths am mon monetization for a Creator
7:39so and they exist on an axis of
7:42control and so at the lowest amount of
7:45control you have sponsorships right like
7:48people just pay you money you give
7:49basically you're an Advertiser and so
7:51you promote their stuff you read an ad
7:53whatever that's that one degree next to
7:56that you have being an affiliate uh
7:58which is just like you know getting
8:00sponsors except your pay on performance
8:01because what we do when you do an
8:03affiliate deal uh or a performance-based
8:06deal you saying I would like a larger
8:09percentage of The Upside if I can prove
8:11that I can generate it and so what
8:12you're essentially doing is Shifting the
8:14risk from them to you and the more risk
8:16you're willing to take on the greater
8:17percentage of The Upside and so winners
8:19always work on performance no one should
8:21be able to as accurately estimate how
8:23much you can drive no one knows better
8:24than you do right you're the seller so
8:26like in m&a terms uh the seller of a
8:29business the person who owns the
8:30business you're selling to somebody else
8:31always has an information Advantage
8:33because they always know more about the
8:34business than the person buying right
8:35and so you are the seller of attention
8:38so you should always know the value of
8:39your attention better than someone else
8:41now if you know that your attention's
8:42[ __ ] um and doesn't actually convert at
8:44all then maybe you should just do the
8:46sponsorship brand read it's the brand
8:48value yeah yeah yeah yeah we're just
8:49it's it's overall the impression now
8:52you've got me on board yeah right yeah
8:54it's going to change everything so yeah
8:55anyway so you've got you've got uh
8:57sponsorships here you've got kind of
8:59affiliate and performance deals here
9:00then you've got kind of the the next uh
9:03path which is what I what I did with
9:05school which is um you
9:08promote and you so I put capital on the
9:10deal too so it wasn't just uh you also
9:13invested your yeah yeah it was a big
9:16deal yeah um and so we invested capital
9:19in the company and we invested resources
9:21and we invested brand so it's we did so
9:23I think about them in terms of like what
9:25are the buckets that create investment
9:27so there's work and for me there's brand
9:29some people don't have that but like
9:30there's work there's brand and then
9:32there's capital and so we put all three
9:34into the business I think there's a
9:36really nice sweet spot there because
9:38what you can do is rather than trying to
9:40go through all the iterations I say hey
9:42let's do a
9:45deal oh didn't see you there hi I'm
9:49Quinn I'm a YouTuber who works here at
9:51carrot and I'm here to help you out have
9:53you ever wanted to get real-time
9:54mentorship from the creators you see
9:56here on this very podcast well what if I
9:59told you there's a place where you can
10:00get just that that's right they're in
10:02our Discord and you can join too every
10:04week we'll be featuring a successful
10:06Creator to dive deep on The Business of
10:08Being a Creator it's a live show with
10:11real time interaction where we'll be
10:12digging into subjects like how to create
10:14the best thumbnails how to maximize your
10:16brand deals how to level up the
10:18storytelling in your videos and so much
10:20more if you're interested you can check
10:21out the link in the description to apply
10:23to join the community
10:26today I think there's a really nice
10:28sweet spot there M because what you can
10:30do is rather than trying to go through
10:32all the iterations I say hey let's do a
10:35deal it has to be significant enough for
10:37me to like make it worth using what I
10:39would consider a brand bullet on and
10:41let's let's get Carro into every
10:44business in the US not just creators and
10:46then if like if that's compelling then
10:48then you get to just do what you're good
10:49at as a Creator um this is me talking to
10:51creators and let the business do what
10:55they've already proven and this is the
10:56key point that they've already proven
10:57they are good at and so this is where a
10:59little bit of business acument comes it
11:01comes into play um this is where like
11:04understanding what Revenue retention is
11:05looking at churn looking at user
11:06acquisition looking at engagement rates
11:08look at activation points whatever that
11:09you want to look at a business to
11:11understand okay is this actually is the
11:12product good because what you want as a
11:14Creator like the perfect Nirvana
11:16situation is unbelievable product
11:18compounding on its own from Word of
11:20Mouth for 12 to 24 months in a market
11:25that's like very similar to your
11:27audience and that you know that you can
11:2910x in a year that's where the magic
11:30happens for both parties yeah they have
11:32an amazing product that could grow
11:34without you but with you it just grows
11:36that much faster and so fundamentally
11:38all you're doing is pulling the future
11:40forward by like four years you're
11:41cutting the compounding curve and just
11:43basically step stepwise increasing in a
11:46straight line up and then saying okay
11:47we're just going to pull year four
11:48forward and now we're at a compound
11:49starting next month at year four to five
11:53rather than year two to three right and
11:55that's fundamentally what I was doing
11:55with school and I mean think about the
11:56amount of deals that we look at school
11:58was the only deal that I've done since
12:00that time period it was because it hit
12:02all of those things now next on so
12:04that's like third stop on our creator
12:06World here the next is that you can
12:08white label so you can drop ship stuff
12:11which is pretty common um that I see as
12:15the simplest way of this is like you
12:16don't manufacture t-shirts you find a
12:18t-shirt manufacturer you slap your logo
12:20on it and you ship it pretty
12:21straightforward and then the final
12:22version final boss of this is that you
12:24create a product from SC from scratch or
12:26service from scratch and you mark and
12:29sell it and uh those are degrees of
12:32control that exist on that Spectrum
12:34there is a right path for everyone and
12:37you just have to have some level of
12:39awareness to know which path is yours
12:41now which of these can create the most
12:43Enterprise Value the further on the
12:45right you are right uh the more
12:47Enterprise Value you have um if you are
12:49doing sponsorships or affiliate deals
12:51which is the first two categories that I
12:52talked about those two can create
12:55Enterprise Value in of themselves if you
12:57consider yourself a media business which
12:59is so funny I was talking to amondo
13:02Creator so like 20 million plus
13:03subscribers and it so funny he was like
13:06dude what we're doing like no one's ever
13:08done this before like have a business
13:10around like making videos and I was like
13:13so you know media's existed for a long
13:15time right and I like and when I when I
13:17told him I was like dude Med like you
13:18should just look at existing media
13:20businesses and it was like this big
13:21light bulb I was like all we're doing is
13:22taking an old business model and just
13:24doing it in a New Media like that's all
13:25it is right the difference though is if
13:27you look at like a great media business
13:28of the new age is like barcol sports
13:30right right and Dave poroy is sort of
13:34now a Creator I would say he is a
13:36Creator now but it wasn't started that
13:37way he just saw the Arbitrage that
13:38existed for all these cheap Impressions
13:40properties yeah exactly and he built a
13:42network and so that he could sell
13:43Impressions across a specific demo um to
13:47advertisers and if that's the business I
13:50just have yet to see I think ymh your
13:53mom's house for comedy I think they have
13:55a handful of Productions so they're kind
13:56of becoming a media Zach Justice is
13:57trying to do this too right you have to
13:59talk to Zach it's tough though
14:01especially if you're the primary like
14:03bread winner kind of for the media
14:05business I would say it's it's almost
14:06simpler to be like hey I know a ton of
14:08advertisers right let me sell your ad
14:11space and I think you could far more
14:13easily acquire a big network from that
14:17perspective which is basically what
14:18important way did interesting so for
14:19your POV if you've successfully built
14:21the media side of your business like
14:23that's a win but the upside according to
14:26your degrees of control it's very
14:28limited and as you I was trying to think
14:29of people who I think have built these
14:31successful media Empires so there have
14:33been many who failed like BuzzFeed is a
14:35great example many failed yeah many many
14:37have failed we're going to reinvent the
14:38game it's like well you're just doing
14:39newspaper State I'll be on a new medium
14:42there are some creators who have
14:43succeeded yeah exactly right yeah Daily
14:47Mail and there are some creators who've
14:48gone they've taken steps in this
14:49direction where they've almost scaled
14:51their content so one that comes to mind
14:52lus Tech tips is a very good example
14:54where lus Tech tips started with just
14:56Linus and over the time he's brought in
14:57other creators to be on his channel
14:59instead of himself and then you also
15:01have creators like I think MKBHD is a
15:03great example too MKBHD I still think of
15:04as primarily as a media business he
15:07doesn't do that much with products and
15:09well he actually tried one a wallpaper
15:12app that got a lot of backlash which I
15:13you know if I were mkb I feel like I
15:15would be like yeah no you know what I'll
15:17just stay and do content over here
15:18because whenever I sort of go over there
15:20people get mad at me yeah now it sounds
15:22like you're saying though from your POV
15:24this also can we hit on this real quick
15:25before we we we switch um so
15:29I want to say this mostly to the the
15:31creators are people who have started
15:32from organic and like built an audience
15:34and whatnot there there's two types of
15:37angry so there are there's angry because
15:40you have done something that you said
15:43you wouldn't do or that is against you
15:44or brand or purported values right then
15:48there is people who think that
15:50everything in the world should be free
15:52and I find that YouTube or really across
15:54all platforms these people exist and you
15:56can by and large ignore them and so I
15:59think that when people promote anything
16:02um they get backlashed because anything
16:04that you give me that is not free [ __ ]
16:06you die y I think on some level you just
16:08got to be like okay anything worth doing
16:11is going to get lashed back and there's
16:14like show me one Ultra famous person
16:16because this is all we're talking about
16:17creators and influence and audiences who
16:19doesn't have haters right and so if
16:22you're going to get hate
16:23regardless you might as well also
16:25accomplish your
16:26objectives so that's just my two sents
16:28on now betraying the brand that you have
16:31no I think that's dumb um so like if you
16:33have for example a naturopathic brand of
16:35weight loss don't push a zenic that's
16:37probably a bad idea at the same time if
16:39you said hey I've got these supplements
16:40that help you do that or I have this you
16:42know uh nutrition program that I'm you
16:44know you do a retreat with me three
16:45times a year seems of course I'm
16:47thinking of liver King because the whole
16:49premise was his gains came from his diet
16:51not from other things 100% You' been
16:53honest I think it would have been fine I
16:54think yeah um it would have been
16:56interesting for sure yeah fine maybe not
16:58fine it would have been oh yeah I eat I
16:59eat you know goat nuts but I also inject
17:02uh Tren um like people were like so is
17:04it the goat nuts or is it Tren well it's
17:06actually both it's interaction between
17:08the two don't understand that's what the
17:10magic right like um yeah so I that's
17:13that's yeah but here actually I think
17:15he's uh it's it's it's a worthwhile
17:17example to pull that up because so
17:19obviously there was a moment where in
17:20time where he went super viral and then
17:22it peaked and then Derek so as a call
17:25back to earlier uh ended up being the
17:27one who outed him he exposed him I
17:28remember heed it here's the thing liver
17:31King still makes content and I would
17:34imagine that he probably still makes
17:36good money yep and so I would see what
17:39happened to liver King as close to a
17:40quote brand suicide moment as you can
17:43get and yet yeah he keeps going and so
17:47here's the here's the real re I don't
17:49think you can get cancelled and so a lot
17:52of people have this fear of making a
17:53mistake that's going to end their career
17:56and no mistake ends your career unless
17:59you choose to end it mhm and so you can
18:01always get back up and keep going the
18:03only way that you can actually get
18:04canceled is if you get prevented from
18:06distribution right so if all platforms
18:08deplatform you if every platform did
18:11that then yeah you are cancelled right
18:12like R Kelly is in jail and make content
18:15he cannot make content so like he has
18:17been he has been effectively canceled on
18:19the flip side how many times has
18:20Chappelle been canceled I put that in
18:22quotes here right he's not canceled he
18:24just keeps going right um and so in the
18:27same light uh to to further hopefully
18:29put at stake through this thing your
18:31assumption that you have killed your
18:32career assumes that everyone in the
18:34world knows who you are and the vast
18:36majority of the world doesn't even know
18:37you exist nor do they really care um
18:40subtext and so like let's say you have a
18:43million person audience okay you mess up
18:47just go get another million you're not
18:49dead and if anything you start having
18:51learned a lesson and you just keep going
18:53it's interesting because like I think
18:55the poster Childs for this in some ways
18:56are like Jake and Lok and Paul dude
18:59the suicide forest thing yeah like here
19:02he is on WWE or whatever whatever
19:04they're doing now I don't follow as as
19:05tightly as I probably should to be uh
19:07you know in this world but um he's still
19:10around and he's quot bigger than right
19:13yeah and so like there's he also Jake
19:15Paul also has a VC fund now yeah well
19:17there you go there are so many examples
19:18of quote career-ending moves that didn't
19:20actually end the career well you have to
19:22be able to deal with and this is the
19:23real hard part is that you have to be
19:25you have to be able to handle hate for a
19:27week m M because the news cycle is about
19:30a week and so you have to be able to
19:32just be hated and it's very against our
19:35human wiring to receive that much hatred
19:38and continue onward especially online
19:39it's Amplified it's impossible to Fathom
19:42a million people telling you that you
19:43suck have you gone through that yourself
19:45um I mean I've Had My Moments of people
19:47hating on stuff that I that I put out um
19:49usually it's just stuff that I put out
19:51that just triggers people and general
19:53and I would say that part of it is
19:54intended to that like cuz I have
19:55relatively extreme views um on life and
19:58death things like that and um I make
20:01those because those are the views that
20:02helped me free myself and made life a
20:05lot more palatable for me I've always
20:06been like and if it helps you use it and
20:08if it doesn't don't worry about it use
20:09whatever you're doing this is not me
20:10trying to prelati this is me sharing
20:12what's worked for me but of course
20:13people see it and they're triggered
20:14because this conflicts with their
20:15worldview my content is a documentary
20:17not a sermon when you think about the
20:22different axes of control the different
20:23models you've said what's interesting is
20:27I've seen a lot of creators stay in the
20:28media per side I've seen a good number
20:29of creators make money via their own
20:31products like obviously there's
20:33feastival the middle area what you've
20:35done is actually very very rare that's
20:37the advantage of if you understand the
20:39business game you can do nasty things
20:41because I remember so there's I I can't
20:43wait for this to get the call back um
20:46but one of my very first podcasts I ever
20:48did was on ice coffee hour um with
20:50graham Stefan yeah and on the show uh I
20:55said if I had your size audience i'
20:57would already be a billionaire I'm
20:58excited for when we cross that because I
21:00think it'll be pretty close you have the
21:01audience now Alex so is he say put up or
21:04shut up yeah I mean we've grown a ton
21:07I'll just leave it at that I'll say this
21:08for anybody who's who's listening to
21:09this so the problem with me claiming
21:11something I would like to have a third
21:13party substantiate um and so like I
21:15could say well if if you know what our
21:18revenue is right and you put any kind of
21:20iida on that that would be reasonable
21:23especially in a business that has lowak
21:25right uh you would probably imagine that
21:27it would be
21:29and you put any kind of multiple on that
21:30it would be a pretty large number and so
21:33we have things that are going for us and
21:35we've had conversations with companies
21:37that said we would value in this in this
21:39range but those are things that I
21:41wouldn't if I claim it I want to be
21:44Rockside absolutely right and so that's
21:46why I have it but that being said um
21:47obviously we've grown a lot um in that
21:49period of time and uh I I'm excited for
21:52whenever that call back comes because he
21:53still has more YouTube people so I'm
21:54using that as mine as my you're saying
21:56we haven't quite reached your audience
21:57yet yeah on YouTube yeah I'm still I'm
21:59still I'm still behind his audience on
22:00YouTube it's actually another good point
22:02though you said multiple right the
22:03multiple that you would get on what
22:04you've built is going to be higher than
22:06say a pure YouTuber yeah here's your
22:08question when you look at say like what
22:09Jimmy Mr Beast has built yeah oh perfect
22:11I was going to come back to that yes
22:13okay is that a business you'd want to
22:14invest in yourself so I think I'd
22:16probably take ch's angle which is like
22:18you just you're basically betting on
22:19Jimmy and I think um yeah I would take
22:21that bet right I think Jimmy will just
22:23die or H wi yep and that's kind of and
22:26you just want to find people like that
22:27when you're distribution bases the world
22:29uh it's hard to lose yeah I'll just I
22:31I'll leave it at that but what you
22:32brought up though like Prime for example
22:35yeah so Prime is actually the identical
22:37to a school deal because he didn't build
22:39the product Congo Brands is another
22:41company that previously had worked with
22:42other creators to do other drinks as
22:44well yeah and so they promoted it right
22:46right but they put I don't know if they
22:47put cash in I don't know what they did
22:48but I'm assuming they put some money in
22:49because they have the capital why not to
22:50get more leverage on on the ultimate
22:52deal or joint venture was Logan going to
22:54learn the drink business and get the and
22:56get brick and mortar distri like maybe
22:58but it's also the question is how much
22:59is your time worth and I don't mean like
23:02dollars per hour or anything like that
23:04you absolutely can do it and when I say
23:06time is like how much is the next five
23:07years worth to you right because if you
23:09can pull five years of knowledge forward
23:12and then grow for five years rather than
23:14learn for five years then begin growing
23:16because you're if you have an audience
23:17of their size your constraint is going
23:19to be delivery it's not distrib like
23:22yeah it's not it's not media
23:23distribution it's going be product
23:25distribution Prime yeah it's going to be
23:27product distribution and so to to build
23:29out the kind of infrastructure and
23:30knowledge base uh to satisfy the demand
23:34internationally not just nationally
23:35internet because they're in the UK too
23:38um you need you need deep expertise and
23:41large existing infrastructure and so
23:43Kong already had that and so it made
23:44sense right and so I would probably lean
23:46more towards that type of model I'm
23:49curious like there's me there's sirant
23:51Jimmy I think with febles is the only
23:53person who's building things truly from
23:54scratch yeah he hired his own team and
23:56everything yeah and I don't know if if
23:57you were to ask Jim me again today uh if
24:00he could go back in time if he would
24:02have yeah just if he would have done it
24:05the same he talk about how stressful it
24:06isir podcast and we can and we can
24:08already say uh he launched lunch Le
24:11right and well what did he do with lunch
24:13Le he didn't do with febles he didn't
24:15build it from scratch right and so I
24:17think part of that is there is a desire
24:20that I totally understand as a Creator
24:22entrepreneur to control
24:25everything and if you look at the people
24:28who are the wealthiest in the world
24:29almost none of them Own 100% of the
24:31companies that they have made their
24:32wealth on so you look at Jensen Wang
24:35from Nvidia owns 4% you look at Elon he
24:38owns whatever it is whatever small
24:40percentage of Tesla that he owns um and
24:43with SpaceX he's not the majority owner
24:45now he might have voting rights whatever
24:46that's a different different question
24:47basos owns 9% of of Amazon like I go
24:50down the list Warren Buffett I think or
24:52doesn't own more than 40% of Berkshire
24:54hathway and we could keep going and so
24:57the idea is to build something really
24:58really big in my opinion need multiple
25:00lifetimes M and you can either live all
25:03of those lifetimes uh in sequence
25:06chronologically yourself and then take a
25:08lifetime to finally learn how to do
25:10everything or you can get three people's
25:13lifetimes you all start together you
25:14divvy up the pie and then you can build
25:16something way bigger way faster the
25:18longer I've been doing business the more
25:20I value time and speed because also we
25:23have the assumption that these things
25:25will not change in 10 years so maybe it
25:27does take you 10 years to learn
25:28everything is the moment still there so
25:29that makes me think of two things the
25:31first thing is for yourself what are the
25:33elements of business that you're most
25:35willing like sure I could learn this but
25:36do I want to spend time with this so I
25:38approach all new things with the same
25:42perspective which you can you probably
25:43share with me which is kind of the
25:44consultant's perspective and so I
25:45started as a Management Consultant uh
25:47which we share as background and the way
25:48that I was taught is if you want to
25:50rapidly learn something in a space and
25:52to give context on this imagine this
25:53back in time I'm 22 years old I go
25:55through my security clearance no beard
25:56by the way yeah no beard I have uh so I
25:59I have to get a top secret security
26:00clearance so I get I pass that thank God
26:01you know I'm Sweating Bullets like oh
26:02what did I do in my frat days you know
26:04like I'm thinking this is like a huge
26:06you know deal to National Security
26:07anyways so I passed that and then I
26:09can't say which which Armed Forces but
26:11we go and do work for uh the defense
26:14department and I was focused on Space
26:17cyber and intelligence and you know some
26:20of the projects I can say this that we
26:21worked on was like basically mix of
26:24assets to kill the most bad guys the
26:26most efficiently right and the thing is
26:28that there's overlap between different
26:30Armed Forces for similar style of let's
26:32just say killing people or gathering
26:35Intel on uh you know bad guys how do you
26:39at 20 years 22 years old go and say
26:42something that's impressive right and
26:44worth $4 million for a project that
26:46you're on um in four months right so
26:49it's like you start now four months from
26:51now you have to give a presentation to
26:53uh two two two star and a four-star
26:55general who have been doing this for
26:56their entire careers and then somehow
26:57managed to say something intelligent so
26:59the way that they approach that problem
27:01is so the person who who uh does a re
27:03you know puts the requisite out for the
27:05project U we say who are the smartest
27:07people you know in around this problem
27:10yeah and they give you five people so
27:11you go to those five people and you
27:12interview all of them and then you say
27:14who do you know five people who are the
27:15smartest people around this and you do
27:17that for over and over and over again
27:18until eventually the same names keep
27:20popping up and you're like all already
27:21talk to John I already talked to Steve
27:23and basically you have you kind of like
27:25map the the neural network of expertise
27:27and then you consolidate those notes
27:29into those buckets so you like recode
27:31them and then you distill them down and
27:33then you make a pretty slide J um that's
27:34like the very tldr job of Consulting
27:36that is what Consulting is yeah and if
27:39you were the 22-year-old you were the
27:40one doing all of the notes and all of
27:42the good you're doing the calls you're
27:43consolidating y 100% And so so I learned
27:47a very valuable skill set there and so
27:48I've approached every new Endeavor using
27:50the same thing to answer the question um
27:53what are the things that I would say I
27:55will learn more about this or I won't I
27:57think it depends on my first my first
27:59pass yeah so if I get into because
28:01there's some Industries where I look at
28:02it I'm like this isn't that hard like
28:04some businesses I'm like this isn't as
28:06bad as I thought it was going to be
28:07other ones I'm like this is way worse
28:08than I thought it was going to be and
28:09it's also like what problems come up and
28:12how equipped am I to solve them so like
28:14I'll use an like like insurance for
28:16example right I think insurance is
28:17really interesting largely because one
28:19of the biggest problems with insurance
28:21is cost of acquisition it's like it's a
28:23demand constrained business insurance is
28:24not hard to get capital for like there's
28:26tons of insurance companies that all
28:27that to say it's there but that was like
28:30oh that's more interesting so when I
28:31have that like of the not now or later
28:33like I put insurance in one of those
28:34buckets as something that like is also
28:37regulated but uh I would say less so
28:39than Banks um and there's pretty amazing
28:43tax advantages that exist with an
28:44insurance you're picking these products
28:46that have to your earlier Point
28:47extremely high retention people need it
28:50it's just people don't historically like
28:52it and acquisition is really hard and
28:54you're coming in and saying well I could
28:55help with the acquisition side oh but
28:57people still really like it and there's
28:59like limitations in my ability to
29:01improve that right now because some of
29:02these things are regulated where the
29:03magic will happen is I'll find some
29:06nugget in there and this will just take
29:08time that I'm like we can win on this
29:10yeah three ways to build a business you
29:12can just look at what's already working
29:13and just do that for yourself and I
29:15think that's totally fine I think it's a
29:16wildly underestimated path uh like you
29:19know I what business do I start I'm like
29:20look around pick one like you can just
29:22start and then you'll learn and then
29:23you'll you know learn from there the
29:25second is you have uh a strong in one of
29:29either that you can acquire customers
29:30cheaper or you can deliver in a better
29:33way right you got some advantage in one
29:34of those two and if you have an
29:36advantage in one of those two you don't
29:37really need much of an advantage in the
29:39other the third is that you need such a
29:41strong advantage that you can overcome a
29:43deficit in the uh other so like uh if
29:45you have a what I would consider a true
29:47product driven business you could not be
29:50really ever good at acquiring customers
29:51and by solving products so well it
29:54becomes viral and then you do solve uh
29:57your acquisition
29:59a better product now on the flip side
30:01it's like can you do the same thing by
30:03just having unbelievable distribution I
30:05don't think the answer is yes you
30:06mentioned that is something like 20 30%
30:08of the businesses coming to you they
30:10make content in some way yeah do you
30:12think that those
30:13businesses because a lot of people talk
30:15about Creator Creator economy are they
30:17better than those that don't grow and
30:19have con as part of their workflow
30:20really interesting question um I think
30:23it's a it's a double-edged sword so what
30:25makes them great also makes them risky
30:27so they will typically have very low
30:29cost to acquire customers because it's
30:31organic and so it's just channels some
30:33yeah it's some star or whatever I'll
30:35call it a star right um who's is's good
30:37on camera good in whatever format they
30:39they advertise in um so they acquire
30:41customers cheaply uh the other Pro is
30:44that typically if someone starts with an
30:45organic audience they really care about
30:48product because being a Creator like
30:50your media is a product in a way and so
30:52they have the right perspective on like
30:54this has to be really good or I'm going
30:56to lose my reputation because the whole
30:57an organic brand is built off reputation
30:59and so I think they're more obsessive
31:01about product I think that's a huge plus
31:04the the downsides for the business
31:05obviously is that they have massive
31:07keyman risk now I think where where you
31:09get really smart about it is if you can
31:11gain enough influence where you can
31:13develop an affiliate Network um of
31:15businesses like somebody who's done
31:16realist really well is um Derek from uh
31:19Dereck more plates more dates uh the
31:21fitness guy um he has I think an
31:24affiliate base of four or 5,000
31:26Affiliates that promote his Fitness
31:28Products and so he's become such an
31:29authority that people are willing to say
31:31well I don't want to remake what he's
31:33made I'll just promote his stuff and I
31:34think he has a good you know a good
31:35program there and so he is he's paying
31:37down his keyman Risk by getting larger
31:40and larger percentage of the business
31:41and so I think the the way to really
31:43scale and organic Creator business is
31:47you launch it with the personal brand
31:50and then over time you backfill with
31:52other faces that you have to approve and
31:55that's the key part you have to approve
31:56that are on brand with values and your
31:58message and are authentic to the product
32:00that you have and are attracting the
32:02audiences that you want to go after and
32:04then they over time become bigger than
32:06you and you kind of like Homer Simpson
32:07into the into the bushes oh yeah you
32:10Reed yeah yeah exactly yeah exactly and
32:12you recede into the bushes until
32:13eventually people associate you with the
32:15brand but the brand outgrows you it's
32:17fascinating because well two questions
32:18immediately come to mind the first is on
32:20Keem Manis is this what you and Leila
32:22have are you thinking about bringing a
32:23roster of folks just SL they took for
32:25the faces of even the con side of your
32:27business so
32:28two answers first we're not planning on
32:31selling acquisition on any time prise
32:33and that's useful um and so I like I see
32:37Elon as keyman to SpaceX and Tesla yeah
32:40and so what if you have the desire to
32:42exit a business then keyman risk becom a
32:44problem if you want to go public or you
32:46want to hold it's really who cares and
32:49so it's kind of a who cares issue um
32:51that being said the second answer is uh
32:54yes because I do like having fewer
32:56single points of failure in general so
32:57despite the fact that I don't think we
32:58necessarily would need it I still like
33:00to build businesses that way in general
33:02and we have plans for what we're going
33:03to do over the next probably 24 months
33:05and Beyond to build out acqs brand makes
33:07sense yeah the second question I had
33:08related to that was when I look at
33:10creation space who've successfully
33:12executed on this it's actually very
33:14minimal right yeah I can tell you one
33:15who I look at who Dave Ramsey so that's
33:18right he's brought in George he's
33:19brought in other people under him he's
33:21got Rachel who's his daughter but like
33:22he's got Rachel um he's got John um he's
33:26got um yeah he's got nine I think
33:30channels for example just on YouTube
33:31that are associated with the primary and
33:34what's interesting is that they
33:35basically run the same Playbook um it's
33:38daily calling show and clips and full
33:42episodes basically are are the channel
33:45and so they clip each episode into like
33:47four or five 10-minute Clips uh and they
33:50put each of those out so that's like
33:52that gives them tons of good like
33:54mid-length Clips they get the one full
33:56episodes and then short clips get taken
33:58and become shorts I study ramsy a lot um
34:02one because I like Dave but secondly
34:04because the amount of creators that get
34:07quote Creator burnout is really high
34:10yeah um or we're talking like Shelby
34:13church right just kind of shifted to I
34:15would say a sustainable uh content model
34:18right but it's it doesn't really acquire
34:21new viewership anymore like you only
34:23care about a vlog if you care about the
34:24person Yeah it's you're maintaining or
34:26some creat o on YouTube now they shift
34:28to a podcast right yeah and it's because
34:30it's a quote easier form but it doesn't
34:31really grow the audience it just kind of
34:32like maintains the audience that you
34:33have and again to be clear nothing wrong
34:35with that totally but I look at somebody
34:37like Dave and I think he's been making
34:39content for 40 years like there's
34:42something to be learned from that and I
34:45think the nature of why his content has
34:47been so interesting is because you have
34:50he has two types of variety or three
34:52really and that I think have to be
34:54present so what are what are the types
34:56of shows that have uh I already shows
34:58that have existed for a long time you
34:59look at The Daily Show right you look at
35:01the the night the nightly host shows
35:03like those can go for 20 years right
35:05what makes that unique in my opinion um
35:08you have you have three variables you
35:10have the people who are on the show uh
35:13you have the subject matter and you have
35:16actually it's just that two yeah yeah I
35:18was thinking because you also have the
35:19interviewer right um format as well yeah
35:22so I'll I'll I'll I'll still say the
35:23third which is the interviewer comma s
35:26uh so like there are some shows where
35:28they will
35:29rotate 10 people through three seats who
35:34are doing the interviewing of other
35:36people about Dynamic topics and so you
35:40need some level of novelty I think to
35:42consistently one engage your existing
35:44audience but also to bring in new people
35:45and I think that a lot of Creator
35:48content on a long enough time Horizon
35:49becomes the
35:50news like they say all the things they
35:52wanted to say about personal finance or
35:54how to build a house or like and then at
35:56some point they're like I don't know
35:57what else to talk about and then they're
36:00like the news and I don't necessarily
36:02think that's a bad thing it just like I
36:05just it's just a pattern that I've seen
36:06over and over again because if you have
36:08single person they only have topic as
36:11their variety and so once you've
36:13exhausted many of the I would call it
36:15standard direct to camera topics then
36:17the novelty comes from news which is
36:19literally novelty right what is new and
36:21so that's where they allow the
36:22environment to create their content or
36:24their topics going back to Ramsey he has
36:28on he has the call-ins which create
36:31endless variety and so those are kind of
36:33like the two formats and he doesn't have
36:34to prepare really ahead of time and so
36:37he is for if he does three hours of
36:39content a day he's generating three
36:40hours of content whereas I would say
36:42many creators will spend 20 hours on
36:45generating one hour of content and so he
36:47has pretty decent leverage on his time
36:49in terms of uh output per unit of time
36:52spent on content itself and if you want
36:54to grow a business around it you can't
36:56just do content because then you have
36:57like when do you when do you grow the
36:59business it's a really interesting point
37:00because you mentioned that a lot of
37:02creators start with one thing then they
37:03eventually burn out and bu a scalability
37:05like Graham Stefan's a good mutual
37:06friend of ours and Graham has openly
37:08talked about how he is getting really
37:11tired on his main Chanel said that three
37:13years ago yeah I've noticed Graham every
37:16year talks about and even when I met him
37:19he was doing like three videos a week
37:20and you just run out of topics and to a
37:22point you just become a news reactor and
37:24that's not something he enjoys as much
37:25as doing and in a way he's found a lot
37:27of sucess now with his podcast channel
37:29for a while like he's SP up a coffee
37:30business yeah and he's also talked about
37:32how the coffee business didn't work yeah
37:35and so I think it's interesting because
37:37on the one hand everybody's like well
37:39acquisition is one of the most important
37:40things to a business if you're a Creator
37:41you're going to succeed on the other
37:43hand hey Graham did the coffee business
37:44didn't necessarily work Emma Chamberlain
37:46has talked about how Chamberlain coffee
37:47line also doesn't apparently make money
37:50there are many creators who go to the
37:51business path and it seems like well
37:54maybe that was not the right play so two
37:56really interesting things about this
37:58uh well Graham specifically and then
37:59also in general so um I think we need to
38:03be very careful about what audience we
38:05want to gather and so Graham's audience
38:08has been predominantly people who don't
38:10want to spend money yes Frugal and so he
38:14gathered everybody together who don't
38:16want to spend money and then was like
38:18Hey spend some money and so I think
38:20there's I think in some ways it's hard
38:22it's almost harder for him to sell
38:23something than almost anybody else right
38:25uh because of the nature of his brand
38:27specifically that's why I think like for
38:29him it's like doing Media stuff in some
38:31ways is probably an easier he can sell
38:32to advertisers and he can they can have
38:34the the good luck you know but I think
38:36for him like something that would have
38:38been on brand would have been like honey
38:39right before the the the yeah before the
38:42Scandal right free Scandal honey I think
38:43would have been very on brand for him to
38:44offer money yeah and he could have made
38:46a lot of money on that and so I think
38:47all discount related things or discount
38:49related Financial Services probably
38:50would have been good angles for him so
38:51that's thing one thing two is uh so I
38:53guess that sorry I was getting into
38:54thing two which is uh picking the right
38:55product right uh so you have right a
38:57it's right product and so I think that
38:59having the saving money audience you can
39:00make money from it but getting them to
39:02buy something that would be considered
39:03frivolous which is just like coffee now
39:04you can try and position it as like okay
39:05it's not Starbucks fine but now you're
39:07literally dealing with a commodity like
39:08it's tra like coffee beans are traded as
39:10a commodity like very hard to be to have
39:13Alpha from a brand perspective when the
39:15whole brand has been built on don't buy
39:17like this stuff comes off the same
39:18Factory floor as this stuff and they
39:20just put a mark up on it right and so
39:21from a product perspective I actually
39:23think creators are horrendously bad at
39:26picking products like the amount of
39:28conversations I've had with creators who
39:29are like hey I'm thinking about
39:30launching an X and I'm like what so on
39:34one hand I like these are real
39:35conversations I've had where they're
39:36like yeah you know I read perer thei 0
39:38to1 and I think I have to create like a
39:40totally new category yeah monopolizing
39:42yeah and I'm like dude you already your
39:44your Monopoly is the attention you can
39:46sell a commodity and as long as it's on
39:48brand you know like with with with you
39:50you'll probably be able to do really
39:52well the F question is will you do as
39:53well as you could have otherwise done if
39:54you picked a better product which then
39:56goes into kind of like circling all the
39:58way back to acis.com in terms of what we
40:00do is we I only really solve for Revenue
40:03retention it's like really the only
40:05thing I care about because on a long
40:07enough time Horizon anything that
40:08retains customers becomes huge if you
40:11know how to advertise at all which if
40:12you're Creator you do and if you can
40:14keep the customers then on a long enough
40:17time resin you become you you build a
40:18massive company right surprised me you
40:20said retention instead of growth
40:21actually well at Bas like level one like
40:23keep customers level two grow those
40:25customers too and get them to bring more
40:26but yes uh and so from a product
40:29perspective though I don't think enough
40:31of them are thinking about reoccurring
40:33and recurring revenue and my two cents
40:36for anybody who's a creater who's
40:37listening to this do not try and solve
40:41churn try and find products that people
40:44already don't turn out of and then make
40:46it your own I spent a huge amount of my
40:48career banging my head against the wall
40:50trying to figure out how to make
40:51something that people inherently leave
40:53like a gym membership uh something
40:55that's sticky and I've learned a ton and
40:58so there's lots of what I would consider
40:59like blocking and tackling tactics that
41:01I have learned that will will that will
41:03that will improve turn right but to
41:05conquer turn like how many of you have
41:07turned out of your internet lately how
41:09many of you have turned out of your cell
41:10phone bill how many of you have turned
41:11out of your insurance account for that
41:12matter yeah ex them and you're still
41:14with them of course and so you think
41:16about these products and so I would
41:17rather find products that people already
41:19don't leave and have no affinity for and
41:22then try and just shift them over now
41:23you're like wait how can well aren't
41:25they technically turning out of them
41:26yeah but I'm being
41:27laser targeted and how like yes that's
41:30the point that's the advantage that you
41:31have as a creators that you can bring
41:33those people over from what is otherwise
41:34a commoditized product that they don't
41:35care much about but still pay for rather
41:37than trying getting people to care about
41:39your product in order to buy it you
41:40might remember 2021 everyone is really
41:42excited about the Creator economy
41:44everyone thought it's going to be the
41:45biggest thing in the world one because
41:46Co everyone's at home they're watching
41:47online videos and two because Tik Tok
41:49short forms going on the scene
41:51everyone's getting millions of followers
41:52and then 2022 2023 there actually was a
41:55bust where a lot of people were like oh
41:57Creator economy is not going to be a
41:58thing and it's because people weren't
42:00able to monetize they have all these
42:01short form followers they didn't really
42:02see really strong views on this oh yeah
42:05what are you thinking so I think it's
42:07because the people who are allocating
42:08money didn't understand media at this
42:11level like I I would I would wager that
42:13you and I probably understand the
42:14creater world and media better than most
42:18and I I think that fortunately
42:20unfortunately I think short form content
42:22does not build tremendous influence
42:25right I think it bring awareness
42:28uh but if we think about influence in
42:29terms of like what percentage likelihood
42:31can we get the audience of this person
42:33to purchase something um you just
42:38need okay so four elements for influence
42:43so you've got likeness so is does this
42:47person look the way that I look so
42:48because of that I will trust them more
42:49and be more likely to follow their
42:51directions the second is credibility
42:54which is say do correspondence which is
42:56basically person have evidence or proof
42:58that what they say is
43:00true uh third is you have uh Power uh
43:05and power comes from someone doing some
43:08directive that you have stated uh and
43:10then yielding a positive consequence
43:12from it and so I'll give an example of
43:14this so uh huberman made a short about
43:17if you have the hiccups how to stop
43:19having the hiccups right and I remember
43:21watching it and being like well I don't
43:22have the hiccups right now but I'll try
43:23to remember this when I have the hiccups
43:25and about a month later I had the hicup
43:27power what said and then I did the thing
43:29and the hiccup stopped and so in that
43:32moment huberman gained influence over me
43:35I'm more likely to follow a directive in
43:38the future and so status is the is the
43:40fourth thing that gives you influence
43:42which is relative control over over uh
43:44reinforcers meaning uh if I am a
43:47bartender and I control a scarce
43:49resource which is alcohol I have status
43:51in this setting uh because I control the
43:54things that reinforce does it matter how
43:55rich or powerful you are I'm the
43:56bartender in this setting I control what
43:58scarce right and so uh if you a
44:01billionaire you control money and so you
44:03gain status just from that presidents
44:04and politicians also have status because
44:06they control resources of the government
44:08right but they still control resources
44:10and so um women have status because they
44:13control a scarce resource for men very
44:16just being real yep and so they can
44:18influence behavior and so all of those
44:21things um increase the likely that you
44:23get adherance uh from or or compliance
44:25from a request and so if you have all
44:28four then you incredibly influential
44:30right and big picture our
44:33goal as creators is to gain actual
44:37influence so that we can influence uh
44:40the behavior of a large group of people
44:43right and the way to do that most
44:46powerfully is to give them something
44:48some sort of directive that they follow
44:50and their life gets better and then
44:52they're more likely to adhere to a you
44:53know following request that makes sense
44:55so if that's the case
44:57it's very difficult for you to do that
45:02well with very short content and so to
45:05put this in context let's say that
45:07somebody has consumed 20 YouTube videos
45:10of mine and let's say that that V those
45:12videos on average for 30 minutes all
45:14right so that's 10 hours of of content
45:16that they've consumed from me okay right
45:18let's do the math here if the average
45:19short that I put out is let's say 20
45:21seconds okay so if we have 20 seconds
45:24for a short that means it's three shorts
45:27per minute so 10 hours time 60 we have
45:29600 minutes is what my Longs were yep
45:32and we'd have to Triple that so they
45:33would have to consume 1800 shorts of
45:36mine God right and so I think that
45:40what's happened is that people have
45:42wildly overleveraged followership and
45:45views for influence what's interesting
45:48is that like small businesses I remember
45:51uh Michael showed me this actually he
45:52saw this little Q card he took a picture
45:54of it from like a a car detailing
45:56business or something
45:57and they
45:58said uh for 400,000 views on Tik Tok or
46:0410,000 views on YouTube $500 so any
46:08Creator who wants to make something
46:09about their card card detailing
46:10organically they'll pay them $500 if
46:12they get 10,000 views on YouTube or
46:14400,000 views on Tik Tok so they had
46:17they had already basically appropriated
46:18that as 40x is the equivalent uh amount
46:22of influence and if it were me I still
46:24would probably rather have the 10,000
46:25views on YouTube If if we're looking at
46:27this um what's her name the the dancing
46:29girl Charlie uh dilia right so I think
46:32she's had a couple of things that didn't
46:33work as well that like and again it's if
46:37I make a brand built around slapping
46:40strangers in public right as a complete
46:42extreme and then I launch a credit card
46:45does that really carry there's no sayd
46:48correspondence I have no proof right so
46:50I have no proof that she actually did
46:51partner with a credit card company by
46:53the way right and I think she had a
46:54popcorn and to be clear I'm i' I'm
46:56there's no here that's not my my point
46:58here my point is to help creators
47:01monetize and so I see the point of short
47:05form as one thing which is to drive them
47:07to long form or if you can obviously
47:09deliver some sort of value like I got
47:10from huberman in that in that short
47:12short clip but the thing is is that the
47:13likelihood that that occurs is really
47:15really low I have a pretty decent memory
47:17and I remembered a short from a month
47:19earlier and that actually did it and got
47:21a resolve super unlikely now if you
47:25listen to hubman on a daily basis for
47:27example he probably gives 80 directives
47:30over his every podcast and all all you
47:33have to do if you're longterm listener
47:35is listen to one of them over a month
47:38and your life gets better and he gains
47:39influence and so when he then makes a
47:41product recommendation I'll bet you that
47:43the hubman collabs have probably crushed
47:45athletic greens W and he's got broke
47:48he's got the sunglasses thing um I think
47:50he's promoting David bars uh which is
47:52actually protein yeah so like uh and
47:55those collabs I think have probably gone
47:56pretty
47:57and also to the degree like when Hees
48:00when Hees recommendations like a huge
48:02amount of people including presal
48:04recommendations a huge amount of people
48:06follow and this is where it gets really
48:07[ __ ] interesting so again it's all of
48:10those elements so if you have a let's
48:12say somebody who a longterm host doesn't
48:14talk about politics at all shows no
48:16knowledge of the stuff has a big
48:18audience brings uh brings somebody on
48:21their
48:22endorsement probably matters little if
48:25Their audience pays attention to a
48:26political candidate then that's
48:28basically just functions as an ad and
48:29the political candidate is doing the
48:30influencing on their behalf but for
48:33their endorsement to matter not just the
48:35distribution they have to have
48:37demonstrated some credibility around the
48:40topic so that people say this guy is
48:41informed the value to be other than
48:43you've reached a million people or
48:44whatever right right Joe has done a ton
48:46of political stuff and like it don't
48:48like it whatever he's demonstrated that
48:49he's least spent a lot of time trying to
48:51research the topics with the intention
48:53of just trying to find truth from an
48:54independent perspective I'm not getting
48:56into like the weed on either side here
48:58but just that that has been the
48:59intention and so he is tremendous
49:02influence because most people think at
49:04least I think most consumers think this
49:05way uh I don't want to do all that work
49:07right uh I'll just trust him see what's
49:09fascinating you described the primary
49:11function as short form to drive to long
49:12form because you go to a broader Point
49:14you're seeing that people had followers
49:16but they didn't have influence because
49:17influence comes from the four things you
49:19just describe likeness credibility power
49:21status initially what was going through
49:23my mind was yes 2022 2023 you saw a bust
49:26because a lot of investors confused
49:28influence with followers yes because
49:30there were more followers brought into
49:31EOS forms but nothing else the initial
49:35premise I was operating with in 2025
49:37which now I'm rethinking was oh but now
49:40people have figured out how to use short
49:42form to upsell to products and services
49:45whether on school or yeah or yeah or
49:50these other 15 different monetization
49:52methods where these short form units are
49:54just becoming really marketing the best
49:57one yeah I mean it is the best one well
49:59said well said the premise for me was oh
50:03now short form it's actually just
50:05marketing like they're just like
50:06commercials yes and so the monetization
50:08is coming back the short form is not
50:10really successful in growing your
50:11influence but it is successful just from
50:14a distribution POV think of it as like
50:16awareness ads yep and so what happens is
50:19the objective in my opinion so like the
50:21ones you like school for example if
50:23you're a short form person it's like how
50:24can I just get them to take the tiniest
50:26amount of action
50:27to into aity where I can get moreac with
50:32them on a f feedback loop so that I can
50:34gain the other three or four more like
50:36harder right um but what's interesting
50:39is like the people who I think were
50:40doing really well on monetization right
50:42now for Tik Tok are doing Tik Tok shop
50:44plus lives yes and what's alive
50:47long I think there were some creators
50:50that were still wildly undervalued yeah
50:52and many that were wildly
50:53overvalued and this is the uh uh you
50:57know the classic story of like I had two
50:59people that I paid 100,000 you know had
51:00100,000 uh followers on Instagram and I
51:04had both of them do a shout out for my
51:06thing and one guy drove 10,000 customers
51:09and one guy drove zero how is now
51:11assuming it's not Bots but like there's
51:13definitely legitimate Creator accounts
51:15that have 100,000 followers that have
51:16zero influence do you think more
51:19businesses should be trying to follow
51:21content creator Le models like we've
51:23talked a lot about hey there's five
51:25different ways these business money here
51:27are some of the challenges they have
51:28should the other you know 60% of
51:30entrepreneurs come to you be thinking
51:31about oh I should be incorporating
51:32content more into what I do I have super
51:35strong reservations with word should in
51:37general um I would say really just
51:39depends on what the constraint of the
51:40business is and so like let's say you
51:41have an outbound channel that you have
51:44cold callers and cold emailers that you
51:45know generate B2B customers for you do
51:48you need to start making content
51:51probably not and given the resources
51:54required are there is there something
51:55else in the business that would generate
51:57more Enterprise Value yeah if so then
51:59you should do that right big picture
52:01more attention in general tends to grow
52:04businesses provided they are not supply
52:06constraint but that's a big Aster
52:08because many businesses are Supply
52:09constraint there's a lot of plumbers who
52:11the phone's ringing on the hook and
52:12they're like I just need more plumbers
52:13dude like I man yeah of course like I
52:15could we can like I don't have a problem
52:18getting people if you have a cleaning
52:19business the problem is not getting
52:20people to want cleaning the problem is
52:21finding cleaners yeah right so like it
52:24depends on what what the problem of the
52:25business is now if that were the issue
52:27do you make content around like what
52:28it's like to be a cleaner so that you
52:30attract cleaners people who want to
52:31clean it's like hey you already clean
52:32your house all the time want to do it
52:34for money and we have better working
52:36conditions blah blah blah like
52:37fundamentally uh I guess reframing the
52:39question as should the other 60% of
52:41businesses add another advertising
52:43Channel no unless it's the contraint of
52:45the business when you think about when
52:47you're Investing For acquisition. comom
52:49or now for acq ventures it sounds like
52:51traditionally it started from let me
52:53bring you better business processes with
52:55school it actually shed a bit to I can
52:57just bring you tremendous distribution
52:59via my own content what types of
53:01companies were you leaning more toward
53:03investing once you help with the
53:04processes or ones where you think the
53:06content distribution actually is what
53:07matters so I'll say it's both right um
53:10and I still use those three kind of legs
53:12of the stool so I got money we've got
53:15timer work and then we've got brand
53:17reputation distribution Etc um I prefer
53:21to do as many as I can of the first two
53:23because in a lot of ways brand is so
53:25much more limited not Limited in its
53:27power but limited in how many and maybe
53:28this could be a limiting belief for me
53:30but I I don't think it is I think it's
53:32it's very so brand is built on
53:33associations and pairings and if you
53:37pair yourself with too many things it
53:39the brand starts to lose its potency
53:43because you have associated with too
53:44many disperate things now if you made
53:46many associations with things in the
53:47similar buckets I think you could get
53:49more bullets right it's more okay more
53:50shots on goal if you will but no I I I
53:53try to basically do the more scalable
53:55things which money is actually you know
53:57pretty scalable we've developed a pretty
53:59pretty exceptional team at the holding
54:01company for
54:02acquisition. um because I I basically
54:05take I marry a lot of old school and new
54:07school so we have a lot of young caught
54:10five and 10e mckeny you know um Bane
54:14Consultants that will pull who are like
54:17I hate feeling like a cog in a machine
54:19and just doing billable hours but are
54:21otherwise incredibly hardworking
54:23incredibly bright and also see the
54:26problem with a lot of antiquated
54:27businesses and want to work with more
54:29new more cuttingedge stuff and also
54:32really like and a lot of them came from
54:34you know my content my world um and want
54:37to marry I would say big business
54:39strategy with small business tactics uh
54:42and then kind of like Bridge those two
54:44gaps uh together and that's a lot of
54:46what we do at at acq anyways and so I
54:49think they really enjoy it because they
54:50learn a ton uh from the Frameworks that
54:53we have for growing companies it adds
54:55nuance and texture to their existing
54:58knowledge set from what they learned at
55:00the kind of like big consulting firms
55:01and just to put context to this like if
55:03you're looking at like supply chain for
55:06Walmart Brazil right or something you
55:09know Walmart latam uh because you need
55:11to do some you know analysis for that
55:14super heady uh really complex lots of
55:17moving parts and not useful to a small
55:20business like really valuable to a big
55:23business which is why they pay the money
55:24for it uh not useful at all to a small
55:26business but the thinking process and
55:28the reason I like taking people from
55:29that world one is because I came from it
55:31but also because I think at the end of
55:32the day Consultants are a lot like
55:33engineers in that you just have to solve
55:35problems and being able to have a really
55:37good problem thinking mind um is I think
55:40what makes a good a good consultant uh
55:42in general and so that feeds really well
55:44into the advisory practice would you
55:45invest in content creators I would if I
55:50like
55:51okay let me clarify qualify the answer
55:54so are you saying invest them like if I
55:57could buy a stock in a person or like if
56:00hey I want to start I I want to start
56:01this umbrella company I was think
56:03initially the second I probably wouldn't
56:05for a denovo idea um for a couple
56:09reasons one is like I don't I don't
56:11really like seed stuff like idea stuff
56:15right also because creators are
56:17typically like big idea people that's
56:19not the constraint the constraint for
56:20them is execution um and business Acumen
56:23and for a deal structure like that to
56:25like in a tradition structure I probably
56:27wouldn't have majority controller
56:28ownership and so that would be really
56:31high risk I think and so I probably
56:33wouldn't like that deal if it was a deal
56:35that was kind of the opposite where like
56:37maybe they owned like 20% and we owned
56:3980 and we fronted the capital and we
56:40like put all the stuff together you're
56:42incubating them yeah maybe yeah but even
56:44then it's like I also have to look at
56:46Supply demand of like my own deal flow
56:48right and to do that it would have to
56:50prove that that deal structure provides
56:54more Alpha than the existing thing which
56:57I would have a hard time believing what
56:59about a later stage Creator company like
57:01the primes of the world yeah so like a
57:03Logan Paul or like a whatever Jake Paul
57:04or something who's not him but somebody
57:06else right it would be tough and the the
57:09main reason is investing in in someone
57:11like that isn't really investing it's a
57:15joint venture and then it's really like
57:17so I'm starting another business and
57:20that's really what it would be and so it
57:22would have to be a business that I
57:24felt the existing resources and assets
57:27that we had we already had a huge
57:29percentage of the core competencies
57:30required not just in knowledge but like
57:32in Manpower yeah to do it makes sense
57:35because for you you're either obviously
57:36you're bringing Capital money right but
57:38you're also either bringing your image
57:39and likeness which is distribution or
57:41you're bringing the operational
57:42expertise right you're working with
57:44these businesses that are less heavy on
57:45the distribution side clearly something
57:47of value you're working with these
57:48creators well you have distributions you
57:52don't necessarily need theirs and they
57:54don't have the operations side which
57:55means you have to spend tons of time
57:56building tons they like they don't have
57:58any right and so we'd have to build we'd
58:00have to build a company and so that's
58:01where I see that as like like
58:03translating the ultimate question to
58:04like would you build a company for a
58:06Creator if that's what it if that's what
58:08I translated into then the answer is
58:11probably not right uh just given the the
58:13the con like how much it would take when
58:15I was chatting with Michael earlier
58:17today he did say you've been shifting
58:18more into investing and we brief
58:21Ventures is all capital yeah acq
58:22Ventures and from my understanding
58:23that's much earlier stage Sho what
58:25prompted that actually honestly just we
58:26had so much deal flow for it so a lot of
58:28people were coming in and saying hey I
58:30would say it's it is largely Tech so CU
58:33it's Venture you need to have really
58:34really potential big access outcomes
58:36yeah yeah they just the economic like
58:37the economics lend themselves to Tech
58:39but we had a lot of uh people were
58:41coming towards us in in I would say like
58:43a couple buckets so bucket one is
58:45somebody who's already raised some round
58:47yeah consumes all my stuff it help them
58:50grow and they're like I would just
58:52rather have you on our cap table than
58:54somebody else and that's like perfect
58:56scenario right like they already they
58:57they like the stuff they're they kind of
58:58like subscribe to ideology we can
59:00provide Capital help them grow because
59:01we believe in the thesis so like that's
59:03great and those and the thing is is that
59:05the existing model that we had prior to
59:06that required us to have a significantly
59:08larger Equity position right to justify
59:11uh the return right but because some of
59:13these tech companies can have uh signif
59:15larger exits and because they don't
59:17require more work right uh we can take
59:18smaller slugs and do um and just do
59:21money only essentially so that's so that
59:24was that was kind of bucket one bucket
59:25two is people who don't have a cap table
59:27at all um they're maybe bootstrapped but
59:30they still want to take on some clear
59:32opportunity that we can help fund um and
59:36those also uh you know as long as the
59:38deal structure makes sense like those
59:39can make a lot of sense the nice thing
59:41with that is that they
59:42require almost no work and expertise
59:45right uh and so it's really just like
59:47these entrepreneurs are like I'm not
59:48trying to exit I'm not trying to have a
59:50growth partner I need capital and I
59:52prefer your Capital to somebody else's
59:54and we basically had so much of that
59:55they were like we should probably just
59:57just spin this up and the check sizes
59:59are not that big and so I don't even
1:00:02really need to raise a fund to do like I
1:00:04like I can just do it on my own yeah
1:00:05exactly so um that's worked out really
1:00:08well we've already done like I want to
1:00:10say like six or eight deals oh wow
1:00:12that's fast yeah I know just in the last
1:00:14like two months so like it's it's
1:00:15heating up really pretty quickly which
1:00:17is great or I'll just lose my ass and
1:00:19we'll find out but like
1:00:21yeah one where yeah I've deployed a lot
1:00:23of money like congratulations you know
1:00:25cuz it's funny because in the investing
1:00:26world for those who don't know this uh
1:00:28in a fund structure you basically are
1:00:30incentivized to deploy Capital yeah uh
1:00:32job to put out money yeah so it's kind
1:00:34of interesting because like the
1:00:35traditional like clapping of hands that
1:00:37happens when it's all your money it's
1:00:40actually like well I I took a lot of
1:00:42swings we'll see you don't really have
1:00:43LPS your your LPS yourself that that's
1:00:46why so cool I've spent all my money yeah
1:00:50amazing yeah um yeah I mean
1:00:52fundamentally we operate 100% like a
1:00:53private Equity Group and obviously the
1:00:55fund the the the acq uh Ventures
1:00:58operates like a VC right like we have a
1:01:01uh basically a a general partner who
1:01:03just basically runs that uh came from
1:01:05the Y combinator world like has really
1:01:07good deal full on his own yeah he
1:01:08sources a bunch of deals on his own
1:01:10outside of our Network too which I
1:01:12you'll probably notice this a common
1:01:13theme is like I want stuff that already
1:01:15works and that I can put gasoline on
1:01:18rather
1:01:19than it can only work because of me
1:01:23school is an exceptional product and was
1:01:26compounding month of month zero
1:01:28advertising on its
1:01:30own then we added gas if it only if it
1:01:33requires me in order to work then it
1:01:35requires me to work until I die that's
1:01:38not fun and so just as like a side note
1:01:40for the creators like everything that
1:01:42again this keeps coming back to this
1:01:43point but like I solve for Revenue
1:01:45retention because I if if you go on
1:01:47vacation and the company dies you just
1:01:49bought yourself a higher leverage income
1:01:50but you did not buy yourself a business
1:01:52right and it's not an asset it's
1:01:55literally only valuable to you and not
1:01:56valuable to everyone else and the
1:01:58valuable to everyone else part is where
1:02:00where you get significant outsize
1:02:02returns in terms of wealth creation when
1:02:04you started to make content before in
1:02:07your previous businesses you hadn't
1:02:09really gone hard on content marketing
1:02:11and so was the motivation because you
1:02:12saw this is goodly Generation for
1:02:14acquisition. or was it more hey it's
1:02:17time for me to share what I've learned I
1:02:18would say one there was multiple
1:02:20motivations yeah and I was actually
1:02:23pretty uh reluctant to do this and I I
1:02:26don't even know if I will do it forever
1:02:28I think some people were like I'm going
1:02:29to do this like I don't know if I will
1:02:30do it forever I came in with a very
1:02:32clear purpose of why I was going to do
1:02:33this so I'll tell you the the the
1:02:35stories that got me to decide to do it
1:02:37and then why so um in very short order
1:02:42uh the rockhead teramana for multiple
1:02:44billions Huda Beauty uh did a minority
1:02:47deal you know valuing the company over
1:02:48600 million Conor McGregor same thing
1:02:51600 ironically 600 million for proper 12
1:02:54uh his whiskey uh company uh so those
1:02:56were like some celebrity examples then I
1:02:58had I remember hearing this podcast of
1:03:00this guy named um he did Nomad
1:03:02capitalist he's like a YouTuber and he
1:03:04talks about expatriating and like how to
1:03:06have tax savings and things like that I
1:03:09had seen his channel and I listened to a
1:03:11podcast and he said I get 3,000
1:03:13applications a month and I went to go
1:03:15look at the application and it was like
1:03:17it was an application it was like 30
1:03:20something questions and they weren't
1:03:21like multiple choice they were like very
1:03:24in-depth questions for financial and
1:03:26like all like you had to upload
1:03:27documents and like there was a lot of
1:03:28stuff involved and I thought to myself
1:03:30if I had 3,000 applications a month for
1:03:33any business that was highend B2B my God
1:03:37I would just print money and so I I
1:03:39thought about that I was like okay so
1:03:41these these were like I'm getting warmer
1:03:42and warmer to this idea and then Kylie
1:03:44Jenner gets on the cover of Forbes as a
1:03:46billionaire at age 20 which they ended
1:03:48up disproving later but like it doesn't
1:03:49matter right I think she is a
1:03:50billionaire now uh but she was 20 I was
1:03:5327 I thought I was hot [ __ ] she's seven
1:03:55years younger and she's a chick and
1:03:56she's richer and I was like I suck I'm a
1:03:58big believer in like if somebody's
1:03:59making more money than you there's
1:04:00something you can learn from them uh in
1:04:02the game of business totally and and it
1:04:04might just be like you need to be
1:04:05luckier uh like sometimes it's like you
1:04:08need to be the right right place the
1:04:09right time so it's like okay well what
1:04:10do I do about that it's like okay well I
1:04:12tried to increase my surface area of
1:04:13flock then I decided I was going to do
1:04:15it and so when acquisition. comom for
1:04:17sure was what I was going to do yeah the
1:04:19brand part wasn't something I was for
1:04:20sure going to do but when I thought okay
1:04:22how can I decrease the likelihood of
1:04:24failure as much as possible like one of
1:04:26the tenants would be like well if you
1:04:27had an investment firm and you had
1:04:28unlimited deal flow of people who only
1:04:30wanted to do business with you it would
1:04:32make it very hard to fail and so I
1:04:34wouldn't have to be the best negotiator
1:04:35I wouldn't have to be the best picker of
1:04:37companies I could just have unlimited
1:04:39shots on goal and so I was like okay so
1:04:41if I were to solve for that what would I
1:04:43do I was like well if I could build the
1:04:44biggest business brand then that would
1:04:47basically shrink into irrelevance or
1:04:49make sorry shrink all of my problems or
1:04:51make them irrelevant by consequence that
1:04:53was fundamentally why I decided to do it
1:04:55you mentioned beginning you weren't even
1:04:56sure you wanted to do it do you enjoy
1:04:58having over a million followers now in
1:05:00that piece of accomplish um there are
1:05:02pros and there are cons and right now
1:05:04there are more Pros than cons and if
1:05:06there's a day where I feel like there
1:05:07are more cons than Pros I will stop
1:05:09right I I think there are some people
1:05:11who really love attention and love Fame
1:05:17and things like that I don't think I am
1:05:18that person and I feel like I have
1:05:20evidence to support that uh because I
1:05:23didn't do it for a long time when I
1:05:24think I had the opportunity to right now
1:05:27my content feeds thousands of Families
1:05:30First from obviously what we do at
1:05:32acis.com the holding company but then
1:05:33also all of the you know I school like
1:05:36there's there's you know from a dist
1:05:38distributed uh perspective if I were to
1:05:41quit in the future I would try to make
1:05:43sure that I had backfilled my
1:05:45responsibility to those families to make
1:05:47sure that that that vacuum you know
1:05:49didn't that that it was filled the pros
1:05:50of this are you have recruiting Talent
1:05:53becomes infinitely easier the best
1:05:55people in the world at whatever they do
1:05:58which is such such an underrated lever
1:06:00like I just can't I can't overstate this
1:06:02was is lever number one number number
1:06:04two is you have the obvious thing is
1:06:06that you have lots of deal flow or
1:06:08customer flow depending on whatever you
1:06:09know whatever whatever you sell those
1:06:10are really the big Pros you have some
1:06:12anary pros like you know if I go to a
1:06:14gym and drop in like they usually know
1:06:15who I am and they'll give me some nicer
1:06:17treatment and if I go to a restaurant
1:06:18they probably know who I am and they'll
1:06:19they'll you know be nice about it um
1:06:22those don't aren't super some people
1:06:24like that the downsides are that what
1:06:25you sell is privacy and so that's the
1:06:28that's the price that you give up sense
1:06:30is privacy is the price and so um and
1:06:33one of the really tough parts and why I
1:06:34spent so much time thinking about this
1:06:36was that um it's it's it's kind of a
1:06:39it's a one-way door yeah it's uh you
1:06:41can't undo it there's no control Z Alex
1:06:44thanks so much for making time that's a
1:06:45WP 100% rock and roll boom that's great
1:06:48yeah

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