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How to Make Ads That Sell: Scientific Advertising by Claude Hopkins — Transcript

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0:00This book is not written as a personal
0:01history, but as a business story. I try
0:03to confine myself to matters of
0:05instructive interest. The chief object
0:07behind every episode is to offer helpful
0:09suggestions to those who will follow me,
0:12and to save them some of the midnight
0:14groping, which I did. Any man who by a
0:18lifetime of excessive application learns
0:20more about anything than others owes a
0:23statement to his successors. The results
0:26of research should be recorded. Every
0:28pioneer should blaze his trail. That is
0:31all that I've tried to do. My only claim
0:34is that I have probably worked twice as
0:36long as anybody else in this field. I
0:39have lived for many years in a vortex of
0:41advertising. Naturally, I learned more
0:44from that experience than those who had
0:46a lesser chance. I want that experience
0:48to help others avoid the same difficult
0:51climb. I set down these findings solely
0:53for that purpose of aiding others to
0:55start far up the heights that I scaled.
0:58Had someone set down a record like this
1:00when I began, I would have blessed him
1:02for it. So that is Claude Hopkins
1:04writing the preface of his autobiography
1:06which is called My Life and Advertising.
1:09When you buy this book, it actually
1:11comes with a second book that he wrote,
1:14a book that he wrote maybe four decades
1:15before he wrote his autobiography, which
1:17is called Scientific Advertising. So I
1:20actually I I reread these books. I read
1:22these both these books for the first
1:23time I don't know like probably like 5
1:24years ago. And I found them because one
1:26of my personal heroes is this guy named
1:27David Olgrevy. And David Ogby said
1:30essentially like he built the foundation
1:32for his giant advertising uh agency that
1:34he founded just on the work alone of
1:36Claude Hopkins. And I originally set out
1:40to write so here's a crazy story for
1:41you. This will explain everything that I
1:42want to talk to you about today. So
1:44there is a book written by Claude
1:46Hopkins which is called scientific
1:47advertising. Okay? It has sold like 8
1:50million 10 million copies. It's probably
1:51the most important book ever written on
1:53advertising if you factor in who read
1:55the book and then what it influenced him
1:57to build after that. The book was so
2:00valuable that when Claude first wrote
2:02it, he showed it to the founder of the
2:05firm that he is working for, this guy
2:06named Albert Lasker. Now, this is really
2:08important to follow because Albert
2:10Lasker is the person that made the most
2:12money in advertising ever.
2:16Albert Lasker read the book, told Claude
2:19Hopkins, "Absolutely not. You are not
2:21publishing this book. This is giving
2:23away all of our secrets. You have to
2:24wait until I'm done making all this
2:26money." Albert Lasker put the book into
2:29a safe for 20 years. When Albert Lasker
2:32was done, uh, quit his advertising
2:34agency. I think he wound up giving it to
2:36some of his employees and left. Then
2:38Claude Hopkins was allowed to publish
2:41the book called Scientific Advertising
2:42which is then over the last you know 100
2:44years because I think the book came out
2:45like 1920 maybe 1930 something like that
2:48uh has sold you know almost 10 million
2:49copies. Okay. So then this week I was
2:51like oh I I've been wanting to focus on
2:54headlines and essentially like how do
2:57you uh distill down the most important
3:00idea into you know maximum which you
3:02know you know I'm obsessed with. Uh, and
3:04then how do I apply that to headlines?
3:05Because for my other show that the new
3:07show I started last year where I'm
3:08actually, you know, having conversations
3:09with some of the greatest living
3:10founders, a lot of the there's like so
3:13much um so much of the value in the
3:16conversations is down into these like
3:18small clips of three, four, six minutes.
3:20And personally, I was reading scientific
3:22advertising to get better at writing a
3:25way to distill a main message from like
3:26a three-minute clip into like a one
3:28sentence that would essentially act as a
3:30headline for a clip, right? And so I was
3:32like, I'm going to read this whole book.
3:33I finished reading Scientific
3:34Advertising. I'm like, god damn, this is
3:36good. And then it made me go back and
3:40start I didn't I wasn't planning on
3:41doing this episode the way I'm doing it
3:43right now. And then I go back and reread
3:45his autobiography, which I wasn't
3:48planning to talk to you about today. I
3:49was just going to talk to you about
3:50scientific action. Like, damn it,
3:51there's too much good stuff in here. So
3:54then what I did is went back and I
3:56compiled all my notes and all my
3:57highlights into this one book, which I
3:59just transferred. I spent, you know, the
4:01last, I don't know, like 10 hours or
4:02something. It took a long time to do
4:03this, uh, of all my notes and highlights
4:05for both books into the book that I'm
4:07holding into my hand. So, that's what
4:08I'm going to go through, uh, with you
4:11today. Not really. I I I skipped over
4:14large parts of his personal life and his
4:17life story. I just want to tell you the
4:18fact that this guy probably spent more
4:20time, he's arguably the greatest
4:21copywriter in history, and he spent more
4:23time doing that than anybody else. And
4:25he there's just these principles and
4:27these handful of ideas that he's going
4:28to repeat over and over again. and I
4:30think it re really will help you better
4:34sell, better market, better advertise
4:35whatever product it is that you're
4:37building. So, let's just jump right into
4:38this. He says, "I've supported myself
4:40since the age of nine." Uh, he started
4:42working 16 hours a day when he was still
4:44in what we'd call junior high. Okay? And
4:47then the reason that's important is
4:49because he also applied that when he
4:50starts into the advertising business. I
4:52did the same in business. I had no
4:53working hours. When I ceased before
4:55midnight, that was a holiday for me. I
4:57often left my office 2:00 in the
4:58morning. Sundays were my best working
5:00days because there was no interruptions.
5:01For 16 years after entering business, I
5:04rarely had an evening or a Sunday not
5:06occupied by work. I am not advising
5:09others to follow my example. But the man
5:11who works twice as long as his fellows
5:13is bound to go twice as far, especially
5:15in advertising. There is some difference
5:17in brains, of course, but it is not so
5:20important as the difference in industry.
5:22The man who does two or three times the
5:24work of others learns two or three times
5:25as much. He makes more mistakes and more
5:27successes. and he learns from both. If I
5:30have gone higher than others in
5:31advertising or done more, the fact is
5:34not due to exceptional ability but to
5:36exceptional hours. So I'm going to
5:38interrupt my own self here because what
5:40I'm holding in my hand is you know 300
5:43maybe 320 pages of the most important
5:47lessons from working 16 hours a day for
5:50five decades. Okay. Okay. So he says in
5:53fact if I've gone any higher than
5:55anywhere else it's not because I had a
5:56bigger brain it's just due it's not
5:58exceptional ability. It's just because I
6:00I I devoted exceptional hours to this
6:02trade says uh it means that a man and
6:05he's talking about himself. It means
6:06that a man has sacrificed all else in
6:08life to excel in this one profession. So
6:11I got to this part you know I probably
6:13read that highlight I don't know maybe
6:14half dozen times in my life. The thing
6:16that jumped out to me is this this one
6:19of Charlie Mer's favorite founders, this
6:21guy named Lesh Schwab. And Lesh
6:23essentially did the same thing that
6:24Claude Hopkins did in advertising less
6:26did in building one of the most
6:28successful tire chains in the United
6:30States history. And he says um whatever
6:33you do, you must do it with gusto. You
6:35must do it in volume. It is a case of
6:37repeat, repeat, repeat. talks about the
6:41fact that his mother was left a widow uh
6:44when he when Claude Hopkins was 10 that
6:47they uh he grew up in poverty and he
6:49says to poverty I owe the fact that I
6:51never went to college. I spent those
6:52four years in the school of experience
6:54instead of the school of theory. And one
6:57of the most important lessons he learned
6:58in the school of experience and school
6:59of theory, he actually learned from a
7:01guy that was a railroad section foreman.
7:04And that is the importance of basically
7:06using the most of every hour of the day
7:08and then treating your work as play. I'm
7:11going to you'll find today I'm going to
7:13repeat, you know, he probably has about
7:14a half a dozen ideas, I would say, that
7:16he just repeats over and over again. And
7:17he repeats them in both books. And keep
7:19in mind, I think the books were written
7:20probably 30 to 40 years apart. And so
7:23this is the idea of treating work as
7:24play and making most use of every hour
7:26of the day is a reoccurring theme that
7:28Claude's going to repeat over and over
7:29again. So he talks about he's like,
7:30"This man exerted a remarkable influence
7:32on me. He was a railroad section
7:34foreman." And so he was Claude's a young
7:37young person at this time. The the
7:39railroad section foreman is a little
7:40older and he's kind of just kind of
7:42schooling Claude to the game. He says,
7:44"He impressed with me the difference
7:45between him and his helpers. The helpers
7:47worked from necessity. They did as
7:49little as possible. They counted the
7:50hours to quitting time and then on
7:52Saturday nights they'd go into the city
7:53and spend all their the money they had
7:54earned in that week. The foreman on the
7:56other hand worked with enthusiasm. He
7:59says uh the men would work as though
8:01work was a boore, but the foreman made
8:03the work a game. That man built his home
8:06in the evenings after 10-hour days on
8:08the railroad. He cultivated a garden
8:10around it. Then he married the prettiest
8:12girl in the section and lived a life of
8:15bliss. I learned great lessons from him.
8:18And then he's talking about he's
8:19reflecting on this conversation that he
8:20had with this railroad section foreman.
8:23Look at those fellows whittling,
8:24discussing railroads, talking politics.
8:26The most that any of them know about a
8:27railroad is how to drive a spike. They
8:29will always do that and no more. Note
8:32what I have done while they loaf there
8:34this evening. Built most of the porch on
8:37my home. So he worked all day. Then he's
8:39trying to again just improve his station
8:41in life. I'm going to build this own my
8:42own house. I'm done working on the
8:44railroad. I can then improve something
8:46that's important to me, something that
8:47will last a long time in my life, which
8:50is this home. And he continues, so you
8:52know, they're they're messing around.
8:53They're bullshitting. I'm building I'm
8:55making better use of that time. I'm
8:56building this porch and extending and
8:57making my home more valuable. Soon I
8:59will be sitting on that porch in
9:00comfort, making love to a pretty wife.
9:03They will always be sitting on these
9:05soap boxes. Which is work and which is
9:07play? If a thing is useful, they call it
9:10work. If it's useless, they call it
9:12play. But one is hard as the other. One
9:15can be just as much of a game as the
9:17other. In both there can be a rivalry.
9:19There is a struggle to excel. All the
9:22difference I see lies in the attitude of
9:24the mind. That is the end of the quote
9:26from the railroad section foreman. Back
9:29to Claude writing in his autobiography.
9:30I've never forgot those talks. I came to
9:33love work as other men love golf. I love
9:35it still. Many a time. I beg off from a
9:38bridge game, a dinner or a dance to
9:40spend the evening in my office. I steal
9:42away from weekend parties at my country
9:45home to enjoy a few hours at my
9:47typewriter. So the love of work can be
9:50cultivated just like the love of play.
9:52The terms are interchangeable. What
9:55others call work, I call play and vice
9:57versa. We do best what we like best. Now
10:00how funny is this? Okay, so this guy is
10:02named Claude dedicated his life to
10:04learning advertising. Last week you and
10:05I talked about another Claude, Claude
10:07Shannon dedicated his life. Obviously
10:09one thing he's known for is creating
10:11information theory, but you know he he
10:13invented the first wearable computer.
10:14He's just he's just a very eccentric
10:16person. And again, what was the
10:18biography of Claude Chennon? A mind at
10:20play. But it's funny that they both
10:22looked at work as play. But even more
10:25interesting is there's a direct quote in
10:27Claude Channon's uh biography where he
10:29said, you know, we what we do best is
10:30what we like best. And we see Claude
10:33Hopkins saying the same thing as Claude
10:35Shannon. If that is chasing a polo ball,
10:37one will excel at that. If that means
10:39checkmating competitors or getting a
10:40home run, he will excel in that. So it
10:42means a great deal when a young man can
10:44come to regard his life work as the most
10:46fascinating game that he knows. That is
10:48awesome. And it should be. This is good.
10:51Just fantastic writing and it should be.
10:53The applause of athletics dies in a
10:55moment. The applause of success gives
10:58one cheer to the grave. Before we get
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12:06ramp.com. Okay. So, now we're going to
12:08go back into I just told you that uh I
12:11was going to say we're going to go back
12:12into some of his ideas for advertising,
12:14but this actually talks about the fact
12:15that his father died, his mother was
12:17left a a widow. But so they're they're
12:20trying to find ways out of necessity,
12:22okay, to survive. And his mother starts
12:26making a homemade silver polish. So for
12:30at the time a lot of housewives, you
12:32know, you had a bunch of things like you
12:34would present food or drink or whatever
12:35the case is in like these silver plates.
12:38And so his mom made a way to make the
12:40silver shiny. Okay? And so as a kid, I
12:43think he's 10, 11 years old when he's
12:44doing this. He's going door todo and
12:47trying to sell this silver polish that
12:49his mother has essentially home
12:51manufactured, right? Says, "I went from
12:53house to house to sell it. I found that
12:54I sold about one woman in 10 by merely
12:56talking about the polish. But when I
12:58could get into the house and demonstrate
13:00the polish, I sold to nearly all. That
13:03taught me another lesson I have never
13:04forgotten. A good product is its own
13:07best salesman. It is uphill work to sell
13:10goods without samples. So that's again
13:13another idea that he's going to repeat
13:14over and over again that
13:17one great product demonstration letting
13:19the person use it without payment.
13:21Whatever the case is, it's it's very
13:22very important. Now if you remember one
13:24of my favorite entrepreneurs of all time
13:26is Estee Lauder. And Estee Lauder's
13:28autobiography. I think I've read three
13:29or four times. I've done probably two or
13:31three episodes on that book if I
13:32remember correctly. And when she was
13:34starting out, she didn't have a lot of
13:35money. So her and her husband when
13:37they're starting the company, they're
13:38like, "Okay, well, we have this
13:39advertising budget, right? But we don't
13:41have many very many customers. We know
13:42we we made a great product." So Estee
13:44made essentially the cornerstone of one
13:46of her of her empire was this idea of
13:48giving a free sample. So she actually
13:50took money out of the advertising budget
13:53and decided, "Hey, I'm going to shift
13:55that money from my advertising budget
13:56into production because I'm have very
13:58limited means at the time and I'm going
14:00to actually produce more of my product,
14:02not to sell, but to give away." and she
14:04would talk about the people and she
14:05would stop people on the street. She
14:07would do this obviously when she had
14:08stores as well. But she said the benefit
14:10of that is one the product speaks for
14:13itself. If you think you have the best
14:14product then you're going to win on that
14:15alone. But there there's an inherent uh
14:18desire to reciprocate in human nature.
14:20So Estee goes up to a woman says here
14:22try this lipstick, try this blush,
14:23whatever the case is. She tries it, she
14:25likes it. Not only will she come back to
14:28Estee to buy more of the thing that she
14:30was given for free, but then she'll tell
14:32all her friends about it. This is a very
14:33that that word of mouth. I forgot what
14:35she called it. She called like phone
14:37phone a friend or phone a woman in in
14:39her autobiography, but she said, you
14:40know, essentially she knew she was going
14:42to do this for the rest of her life and
14:43she just let she knew word of mouth was
14:44going to be the engine that powered, you
14:46know, the business that she was trying
14:48to build over the the f the following uh
14:50decades. Uh and what I love about going
14:53back to this book, what I love about
14:54this is like he doesn't he just speaks
14:55and writes very plainly. It's like
14:57here's another lesson. Pay attention to
14:58this part. He literally says there's
15:00another lesson. We must never judge
15:02humanity by ourselves. The things we
15:03want, the things we like may appeal to a
15:05small minority. The losses occasioned in
15:07advertising by venturing on personal
15:09preference was e would easily pay the
15:11national debt. There are divided
15:14opinions and and [laughter]
15:16so in every preference and everyone only
15:19the obstinate and the boneheaded will
15:21venture far on personal opinion. We must
15:24submit all things in advertising to the
15:26court of public opinion.
15:28This is the main theme of this book. I
15:31own an oceangoing yacht, but do you
15:34suppose I venture across the ocean
15:35without a chart or a compass? So,
15:38there's another idea. He's already
15:40mentioned something. He's like, "Well,
15:41you know, sometimes I'm at my country
15:42house and I want to steal away.
15:44Everybody's else is partying and I'm
15:45sitting back at the typewriter." Now,
15:47he's like, "Hey, I got a yacht, too, by
15:48the way. How do you think I got that
15:49from sitting at the typewriter and
15:51coming up with words that make cash the
15:54cash register ring?" Okay, that implied
15:58in there, which I don't think you'd know
15:59unless you read the book first. He has
16:02this idea. He started out as like a
16:03bookkeeper and he's like, "The problem
16:05is I'm on the expense side of a
16:07business." And he was like, "Who's
16:08making all the money here?" And he's
16:10like, well, if I can go away from the ex
16:13be treated as an expense by the owner of
16:15this business to somebody that's
16:16bringing more sales to the owner of the
16:18business, I will get compensated because
16:20I can say, hey, I brought you in a mill
16:22more than a million dollar of toothpaste
16:24sales. Let me get $200,000 of the
16:27million I brought in. And so his whole
16:29thing when he's counseling young men,
16:31and I guess young women, too, he's like,
16:33get away from the expense side of the
16:34business. Stay close to the money. Stay
16:36close to the money. Uh let's go back to
16:40the section what he's what what he's
16:41talking about though. He's like you have
16:43to study human nature. There's all kinds
16:45of things products that you think he
16:47mentions this over and over again. The
16:48importance of testing. He's like you
16:49know how many times somebody brought me
16:51a product that I was like why do you
16:52want me to advertise this stupid thing
16:54that's never going to sell? He does the
16:56best job you possibly can and it just
16:57sells like crazy cuz he didn't
16:58understand. He's like that that didn't
17:00appeal to me but the world is huge.
17:02There's billions of people and it
17:03appealed to them. So she says some of
17:05the greatest successes I have ever known
17:06in advertising. This is hilarious. So,
17:09he's also talking about hiring and some
17:11of the people that worked under him. And
17:14really that you'll just get way further
17:16if you just understand human nature. He
17:18talks about the importance of studying
17:19psychology, understanding incentives,
17:22understanding what drives people,
17:23understanding what what in human nature
17:26never changes. And he's he he tried to
17:29recruit people for his company from very
17:31common uneducated people. So these are
17:33you would say is like these people were
17:35street smart. They had almost no books
17:36smarts, but they damn sure knew how
17:38humans thought and what motivated them
17:41and how to influence them to buy the
17:43products that they're selling. And so he
17:45talks about two of them here. Some of
17:46the greatest successes I have ever known
17:48in advertising were ignorant men. Two
17:50are now heads of agencies. One of them
17:52has made has made much money in
17:54advertising. A man who could hardly sign
17:56his name, but he knew people and the
17:58people bought what he had to sell. One
18:00of them, one of these men wrote copy
18:02which would induce a farmer to mortgage
18:05his barn to respond. But every sentence
18:08had to be edited for grammar. So that's
18:11another thing he's going to repeat over
18:12and over again. Make sure you're
18:13understanding. He reads a lot of
18:14history, reads a lot of psychology,
18:16reads a lot of philosophy, he
18:17understands people. Uh he says, "No man
18:19can succeed in any line where he finds
18:21himself in disagreement and where
18:23unhappiness results. I consider business
18:25as a game." How many times? We're 34
18:28pages into this book and I've already
18:30mentioned this at least once. It's
18:31probably appeared four different times
18:33by the time I get to this. I consider
18:34business a game and I play it as a game.
18:37That is why I have been and still am so
18:40devoted to it. It goes back to what
18:41Claude Channon last week. You tend to to
18:44like and to be good at things that you
18:46like. Uh Charlie Mer's version of this
18:48is intense. He has this great line where
18:50he says, "Intense interest in any
18:52subject is indispensable if you're
18:54really going to excel at it." Uh, when I
18:57first heard Charlie say that or I first
18:59read that Charlie said that, it's like
19:01love what you do or find another line of
19:03work. And again, you're going to be it's
19:05all these like little ed things on the
19:07edge where it's like, okay, I can work
19:09eight hours a day if you had a normal
19:10job at something I hate or I can work
19:12eight hours a day at something I love.
19:14And even if you only constrain yourself
19:15to those eight hours, you're going to be
19:17thinking about it on your off time.
19:18You're going to be reading, you know,
19:19trade journals on it. You're going to be
19:21seeking out other people and building
19:22relationships with people that are
19:24interested in the same things you are.
19:25It's just like that that love is so
19:27important. Um, already mentioned this,
19:29but the importance of staying close to
19:32the money. He says the big salaries are
19:33paid to the salesmen, to the men who
19:35bought in orders or to the men in the
19:36factory who reduce costs. They could
19:38increase profits. And if you can show
19:40profits, then you can command a
19:42reasonable share of those profits.
19:45uh everybody when you I've read I don't
19:47know probably six I've probably done six
19:50to 10 different episodes on all the
19:51advertising agency founders uh most of
19:54which I found through through David
19:55Oggovy but with with all of them they
19:59all will talk about like there was a
20:00kind of like a blueprint or somebody
20:02they learned from uh that then they use
20:04their ideas to build their company.
20:06Claude Hopkins is no different. He
20:07really admired this guy named John
20:09Powers. And what he learned about
20:12studying the the advertising that John
20:13Powers would create, he's just like,
20:15well, the main principle of John Powers
20:17is like, tell the truth. You just have
20:19to tell it in an interesting and
20:20fascinating way. So, it says John Powers
20:23created a new concept of advertising. He
20:25told the truth, but told it in a rugged
20:26and fascinating way. At the time, he was
20:28working for Wanomaker. Uh, and that that
20:32company was paying John Powers $12,000 a
20:34year. So, keep in mind, this is like the
20:35early 1900s. this is like a crazy high
20:37salary. And he says the principles of to
20:40which John Powers stood are still among
20:41our advertising fundamentals. And so he
20:43gives this example of one of the most
20:45interesting things that he saw John
20:47Powers do. So this clothing company
20:49goes, they're on the verge of bankruptcy
20:52and they call Powers and he immediately
20:55measures up the situation. And this is
20:56what he says. He goes, "There's only one
20:58way out. Tell the truth. Tell the people
21:00that you're bankrupt and that your only
21:01way to salvation lies through large and
21:03immediate sales. The clothing dealers
21:06argued that such an announcement would
21:07bring every creditor to their door, but
21:09Powers said, "It doesn't matter. Either
21:11tell the truth or I quit." So, this is
21:13the ad. Okay, so the ad read something
21:16like this. We are bankrupt. We owe
21:19$125,000 more than we can pay. This
21:21announcement will bring our creditors
21:22down on our necks. But if you come and
21:24buy tomorrow, we shall have the money to
21:27meet them. If not, we we're going to go
21:30to the wall. These are the prices we are
21:32quoting to meet this situation. Says,
21:34"Truth was such a rarity in advertising
21:37that this announcement created a
21:39sensation. People flocked by the
21:41thousands to buy and the store was
21:44saved." And before we get back into
21:45this, I want to tell you about Applov.
21:47And one of my all-time favorite quotes
21:49is from the book 0ero to1. In that book,
21:51Peter Thiel writes, he says, "The single
21:52most powerful pattern I have noticed is
21:54that successful people find value in
21:56unexpected places. And they do this by
21:58thinking about business from first
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22:41So, you want to get started quickly
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22:48That's apploven.com.
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23:44vanta.com/founders.
23:46Another reoccurring theme in this book
23:48is just how much effort claw just works
23:50more than anybody else. even this is
23:51before he was rich. This is him trying
23:53to start out. He he learns that this
23:55company there's there's a story that
23:56goes on for many pages in the book. I'm
23:58just going to give you like this brief
23:59overview. So, one of the companies that
24:01has one of the largest advertising
24:03budgets in the United States at this
24:04time is looking for a head of
24:06advertising. Claude hears about the job
24:08and he doesn't do what normal people do.
24:09He's like, "Okay, I'm going to apply or
24:10maybe like I'll call and like uh knock
24:12on the guy's door and see if I can, you
24:13know, talk to talk to him oneonone or
24:15something."
24:16Claude does all that, but then he also
24:18has dozens of people send letters to the
24:20head of hiring that testify to his skill
24:23to Claude's skill as a copywriter and
24:25advertiser. He then starts writing a
24:27daily column in the newspaper on
24:30advertising and sharing everything that
24:31he learned so that the person in charge
24:33of the hiring sees it. And of course,
24:35you know, the end result, Claude is
24:37going to be the one that gets that job.
24:39Another thing that he repeats over and
24:41over again, you don't want any distance
24:44between you and the end buyer. Like if
24:46you're if you're right up on top of
24:47them, you can hear, you can see how what
24:50they reject, you can see what appeal uh
24:53like lights up their eyes. You have to
24:55stay close to the buyer. And his whole
24:57point, and this is something that a lot
24:59of the advertising agency founders said,
25:00it's like the best people were like
25:01door-to-d dooror salesmen, uh direct
25:04response advertisers. And so he says
25:06study and he even said like uh think
25:07about he he would spend time this is
25:09before there was lighting you know the
25:11people that would gather like in the
25:12town square he said he he'd spend hours
25:14under torch light reading and some of
25:16these people were like snake oil
25:17salesman kind of like Rockefeller's dad
25:19if you studied the history of
25:20Rockefeller his dad would go town to
25:22town and kind of sell like literally
25:23snake oil like uh remedies for
25:25everlasting life or a way to cure cancer
25:27if you drink this thing and they would
25:29stand on top of essentially like a box
25:31and they would preach and try to sell
25:33and Claude said he would spend hours
25:34under torch light listening and seeing
25:37how like what appeals worked for them.
25:38So
25:40basically the advice is like stay as
25:42close as possible to the end buyers is
25:43study salesmen, canvasers and fakers if
25:46you want to know how to sell goods. No
25:47argument in the world can ever compare
25:50with one dramatic demonstration. Another
25:53thing he says over and over again, I'm
25:54going to quote Henry Ford, one of my
25:56favorite maxims from the history of
25:57entrepreneurship. Money comes naturally
25:59as a result of service. I see this all
26:01the time. You can look at ads. I I see
26:03this especially when I fly into San
26:04Francisco. I do a lot of recording there
26:05now. And you look at the billboards,
26:08they have the worst. It's like some of
26:10the most valuable companies in the world
26:12and some of the worst billboards you've
26:14ever seen because all the billboards
26:16talk about is me me. Buy my product. And
26:18his whole thing is just like no one
26:20cares about your company. No one cares
26:22about your product. You should be
26:24positioning your ads to not about you or
26:26your product or your company about what
26:27you can do for them. The basic this is a
26:30basic conception of selling. This is
26:32what Claude Hopkins says. The average
26:34salesman seeks favors. He seeks profit
26:36for himself. His plea is buy my goods.
26:39He makes a selfish appeal to selfish
26:41people. And of course, he meets
26:42resistance. I was selling service. So
26:45he's talking about some of the success
26:47that he had early in his career. He
26:48says, "I was selling service. The whole
26:51basis of what I would talk about was to
26:53help them get more business. The
26:55advantage to myself was covered up in my
26:57efforts to please him." All good
27:00salesmanship, which is all he considers
27:02advertising, says advertising is just
27:04salesmanship in print. All good
27:06salesmanship is based on appealing to
27:09service. Says it over and over again. He
27:11will repeat that dozens of times in the
27:12book. That's not an exaggeration.
27:14Everywhere we see advertisers merely
27:16crying a name. They say, "Buy my brand."
27:18Their whole evident desire is some
27:20selfish advantage. Such advertising may
27:23sometimes pay to an extent but it can
27:25never pay like appeals which appear
27:28unselfish.
27:29Another one of his main lessons as a
27:31main idea is create your advertising as
27:33if a single person was standing in front
27:35of you. Says my everlasting argument was
27:38against dealing with people in the mass.
27:40For instance, a woman once wrote to us
27:42inquiring about a sewing machine. She
27:44had that on her mind and nothing else.
27:47The general plan of the business that
27:48Hopkins was working for was to send. So
27:51she writes a letter inquiring about a
27:53sewing machine that the companyy's
27:54selling, right? The company before
27:55Claude called Hopkins would then return
27:57her a catalog of everything. He says,
28:00"Treating all inquiries alike. Big
28:02mistake. I urge that every inquirer
28:04should be treated like a prospect who
28:06came into a store. We had a special
28:08catalog on sewing machines showing every
28:10style and price. We sent that sewing."
28:12So, if you call in, excuse me, if you
28:14wrote in above sewing machines, this is
28:16what Clet Hopkins changed, right? We
28:19have a catalog dedicated to this, shows
28:20everything we're doing, shows every
28:21style and price. Send that to her. Okay.
28:24Then, we also sent the names of
28:27everybody in her town, in her vicinity,
28:29who had bought our sewing machine. We
28:31then asked her, "Hey, go see the
28:33machines in person for yourself if you'd
28:35like, and then talk with the owners
28:37about whether they like it or not." He
28:39says, "This is another valuable
28:40principle. We are too apt to regard
28:43people in the mass. We must get down to
28:45individuals. We must treat people in
28:47advertising as we treat them in person.
28:49He's gonna say that a million times.
28:50That's I think that's the summary right
28:51there. Just act. If you're writing an
28:53ad, you're writing a headline, you're
28:55making a billboard,
28:57making a 30-se secondond podcast ad for
28:59God's sake. We must treat people in
29:01advertising as we treat them in person.
29:02Center on their desires. Now, he's
29:05combining those ideas. It's not about
29:06you. What do they want? Consider the
29:08person who stands before you with
29:10certain expressed desires. However big
29:12your business, get down to the units,
29:13for those units are all that make size.
29:16Now, there's another idea that he has
29:18that I've never forgotten since the
29:19first time. This is probably the the
29:20main idea I learned from him last time,
29:23and it's this idea that you really need
29:27to tell the pains that you take to excel
29:30and to create your product, even if
29:32they're not unique to your business.
29:34This is fascinating. So he he gets hired
29:36by Schlitz Beer. Okay, at the time
29:38Schlitz beer was had the fifth most
29:40market share. So there, you know,
29:42there's [snorts] four other beers that
29:43are out selling them and they hire
29:45Hopkins. They're like, "Hey, how can you
29:46help us increase our sales?" Right? And
29:49so he goes, "Okay, well first step of
29:50any great ad is research. I got to
29:52figure out like what your business is
29:54about, why your product is good, how you
29:55make it, everything else." So he goes
29:57and visits them at their brewery. He
29:59says, "I saw plate glass rooms where
30:00beer was dripping over pipes and I asked
30:02the reason for them. They told me that
30:03those rooms were filled with filtered
30:04air so the beer could be cooled in
30:07purity. I saw great filters filled with
30:09white wood pulp. They explained how that
30:11filtered the beer. They showed how they
30:13clean every pump and pipe twice daily to
30:16avoid contaminations. Every bottle was
30:18cleaned four times by machinery. They
30:20showed me artisan wells where they went
30:234,000 ft deep for pure water. They
30:26showed me the vats where the beer was
30:28aged for 6 months before it went out to
30:29the user. They took me to their
30:31laboratory and showed me their original
30:32mother yeast cell. It had been developed
30:34by 1,200 experiments to bring out the
30:36utmost in flavor. And Hopkins is like,
30:39"Guys, what are you doing? This is
30:41amazing. Why have you not told people
30:43these things? Why do you not why do you
30:45merely try to cry louder than others
30:47that your beer is pure? Why don't you
30:50tell the reasons?" The response from the
30:52company is, "Well, the processes we use
30:53are just the same as others. No one can
30:55make good beer without them." And this
30:57is the most important part of the story.
30:58But I replied, "Others have never told
31:00this story. It amazes everyone who goes
31:02through your brewery. It will startle
31:04startle everyone in print." So then he
31:07takes what he learned and puts it into
31:09an ad. So I pictured in print those
31:11plate glass rooms and every other factor
31:13in purity. I told a story common to all
31:17good brewers, but a story which had
31:19never been told. I gave purity a
31:21meaning. Schlitz jumped from fifth place
31:24to neck andneck with first place in a
31:26few months. And he says this doesn't
31:29just work for beer. It works for any
31:31company, any product. Again and again, I
31:33have told simple facts common to all
31:35makers in that industry. Too common to
31:37be told. But they have given the product
31:40first allied with them an exclusive and
31:42lasting prestige. That situation occurs
31:45in many many lines. The maker is too
31:48close to his product. He sees in his
31:50methods only the ordinary. He does not
31:53realize that the world at large might
31:55marvel at those methods and that facts
31:58which seem commonplace to him might give
32:00him vast distinction. Tell the pains
32:03that you take to excel. And then a few
32:06pages later he repeats one of his main
32:07ideas. Serve better than others. Offer
32:10more help than others and you are pretty
32:12sure to win. And a few pages after that
32:14he hits back on service. Think only from
32:17your customer's perspective. There are
32:19other ways to win in selling and in
32:20advertising, but they are slow and
32:22uncertain. Ask a person to take a chance
32:24on you and you have a fight. Offer to
32:27take a chance on him and the way is
32:29easy. So then he gets to the point where
32:33he's working advertising. He's built up
32:35a little bit of talent and then he meets
32:37everybody met Albert Lasker. This is the
32:39guy I mentioned earlier that Claude's
32:40going to work for for 17 years I think
32:43and who hides Claude's original
32:45manuscript and is safe. But everybody
32:47met him and said he was just like had
32:49some of the most charisma. This is the
32:50guy that made more money in advertising
32:51than anybody else. And this quick story
32:54is just too funny and you might use it
32:56as an idea in your business when you're
32:57recruiting somebody, but this is just
32:59how Albert Lasker recruits. And so it
33:01says, "Mr. Lasker said, I have searched
33:03the country for copy." He's talking
33:04about copyrightiting. Okay. This is the
33:06copy I got in New York. This is the copy
33:08I got in Philadelphia. I have spent
33:10thousands of dollars to get the best
33:12copy obtainable. You see the result.
33:14Neither you nor I would submit it. Now I
33:17ask you to help me. Give me three ads
33:19which will start this campaign and your
33:21wife may go down to Michigan Avenue and
33:24select any car on the street and have it
33:26charged to me. And then this is now what
33:29Claude says. So far as I know, no
33:32ordinary human being has ever resisted
33:34Albert Lazer. He has commanded what he
33:36would in this world. Presidents have
33:39made him their pal. Nothing he desired
33:42has ever been forbidden him. So I
33:44yielded as all due to his
33:46persuasiveness. Now a few pages later he
33:48goes back to one of his favorite ideas.
33:50That's another big point to consider.
33:51Argue anything for your own advantage
33:53and people will resist to the limit. But
33:56seem unselfishly to consider your
33:58customers desires and they will
33:59naturally flock to you. The greatest two
34:02faults in advertising lie in boasts and
34:05in selfishness. People will listen if
34:07you talk service to them. They will turn
34:09their backs when you seek to impress an
34:12advantage for yourself. This is
34:14important. And again, both these books
34:16is just him documenting the mistakes and
34:18the successes that he see people that he
34:19sees people make over and over again. We
34:21just went to Schlitch beer. He's like,
34:23"This is amazing. Why aren't you telling
34:24people about this?" And they're like,
34:25"Well, cuz like we do it, but everybody
34:28does it." And he's about to mention that
34:31the the that you actually should not
34:33write your own advertising because
34:34you're too close to your own company.
34:37And again, he ties that idea to another
34:39idea that you always need to think from
34:41the customer's perspective. There lies
34:43the chief reason why no manufacturer
34:44should ever conduct his own advertising.
34:46He's too close to his factory. His own
34:48interests tend to blind him to the
34:49interest of his customers. He fails to
34:52appreciate the customer's side. He tells
34:55of things that he takes pride in. The
34:56size of his plant or how or the age of
34:58his business, for example. The
35:00advertising man must study the consumer
35:02and tell the consumer what he wants to
35:05know. Again, everything from the
35:07customer's perspective. When you hear
35:08this over and over again, after you're
35:10done listening to this, just go look at,
35:11you know, flip through a magazine, go
35:13look at a billboard, see any ad that you
35:16see on social media. It's like the good
35:18ads are appealing to you. They talk
35:19about what you want. They're from your
35:21perspective. And you will see, it would
35:22be shocking once you realize this how
35:24many companies just fail to do that very
35:25basic premise. Again, these are words in
35:28many cases are hundred years old. This
35:30is not new information. Uh oh, I love
35:33this part. This is just a random thing
35:36that I think uh has to do with like the
35:37circle of competence that Buffett talks
35:39about a lot and Claude uh Hopkins sees
35:43it in you know his customers too where
35:45they'll be very successful with one
35:46product and one business and they're
35:47like hey I'm a genius and so therefore
35:49they try to go off and do a completely
35:51unrelated business and they fall flat on
35:52their face. He says it is curious how we
35:54all desire to excel in something outside
35:56of our own province. This leads many men
35:58astray. Men make money in one business
36:00and lose it in others. They seem to feel
36:02that one success makes them super
36:04businessmen. So, let me back up about
36:07how I found Colin Hopkins years ago. I
36:09was It had nothing to do with
36:10advertising. I was reading Warren
36:12Buffett shareholder letters. I'm about
36:14to do another episode on this. It's
36:15going to take me like uh probably two
36:17months to make because the the book is,
36:20you know, this is like a now that uh
36:23Warren has written his last shareholder
36:25order. So, it's just going to take it's
36:26going to be the longest founders episode
36:27I ever do. Uh the one the the previous
36:30time I did this is still the longest
36:31episode I ever did. I think it's like
36:33back in the episode in the 80s or
36:34something. It's like three hours long.
36:36But anyways, I'm reading Warren Buffett
36:38Sher Letters many many years ago. And he
36:40keeps calling this guy David Ogrev
36:41genius. I'm like what the hell is going
36:43on here? Who's David Oggovy? So then I
36:44look into him, read David Ogrevy, read
36:46everything about him, read everything he
36:48wrote and he'll like everybody else
36:50he'll tell you who his heroes were. And
36:52I kind of like chase that, you know,
36:54path down. And um there's something in
36:58this interaction between Buffett who was
37:00a shareholder because Oggov and Mather
37:02was a public company and Buffett was
37:03making buying up the stock. In fact,
37:05interesting enough, Buffett made more
37:07money on Oggovy's company than Oggovy
37:09did because Oggovie got scared and sold
37:10his equity too early before it
37:12appreciated. That's interesting. But
37:14Buffett was giving them advice because
37:15at the time Oggo and Mather was going
37:17around and they were on this acquisition
37:18spree and they were like buying up all
37:19these agencies and Buffett thought that
37:23didn't actually make that much sense and
37:24he goes instead of buying other agencies
37:27why not buy the best agency your own.
37:30And he was telling me he's like you
37:31should buy back your own stock. Uh I
37:33thought that slight tangent but I
37:35thought that was really interesting.
37:36Another thing that Claude Hopkins
37:38repeats over and over again, like let
37:40people try your product, give samples,
37:42give demonstrations, but there's a right
37:43way and a wrong way to do it. I have
37:45never found that it paid to give samples
37:47to people who do not request it. We must
37:49arouse interest in our product before it
37:52has value to anybody. I consider
37:54promiscuous sampling a very bad plan.
37:56Indeed, products handed out without
37:59asking lose respect. It is different
38:02when you force people to make an effort.
38:04So, you put an ad, say, "Hey, if you
38:06want to learn more about this or you
38:07want to, you know, get a free month or
38:08whatever the case is, or I'll send this
38:10vacuum cleaner to your house, and you
38:11can use it for a month or whatever, and
38:13all you have to do is fill out this
38:14thing." They're they have to do
38:15something first. And make it, you see
38:17this online, you give your email,
38:18whatever the case is. But it's like,
38:20just don't airdrop it on them because
38:21this is like, hey, I'm going to send,
38:23you know, 3 million vacuum cleaners to
38:25people. If you want to use a vacuum
38:26cleaner example that he uses in the
38:27book, he's like, "What the hell does
38:29vacuum cleaner show up my door for?" So
38:31that's that would be an example of
38:32promiscuous sampling. It's like no just
38:34ask them. They have to do a little bit
38:36of effort but then give them a lot in
38:37return. It is different when you force
38:39people to make an effort. Um here we go
38:43again. He's already mentioned a dozen
38:45variations of this same idea. It's
38:47impossible to get to the end of the book
38:48or even really the end of this episode
38:50with not this this idea being seared
38:52into your brain. You cannot go into a
38:53welloccupied field on the simple appeal
38:55of buy my brand. That is a selfish
38:57appeal. It's repugnant. One must offer
39:00exceptional service to induce people to
39:02change from favorite brands to yours.
39:03The usual advertiser does not offer that
39:06exceptional service. He's talking about
39:07just he's in a C he's in an industry of
39:09second rate talent. Uh he says if you
39:12give service where others fail to supply
39:14it, you can establish a great advantage
39:16for yourself. So again goes back to it's
39:18not about you, it's about service over
39:20and over and over again. Another thing
39:22that he says is and they use examples
39:26many examples in the book where let's
39:28say you have you know Acme furniture
39:30company or you have Mrs. Be's furniture
39:33mart that if you can give your product
39:36and your advertising personality make it
39:38an individual so you should be speaking
39:40to them as an individual but if it comes
39:42from an individual and then hopefully
39:44there's a real person behind it. People
39:46love companies or excuse me people love
39:48people way more than they love
39:49companies. And so in one of his brands,
39:51he established a personality and it's
39:54this guy named Professor Anderson. And
39:55there's an actual person behind it,
39:57okay? And he says, "I've always done
39:59that wherever possible. Personalities
40:00appeal why soulless corporations do not.
40:03Make a man famous and you make his
40:05creation famous. All of us love to study
40:07men and their accomplishments." And
40:09you're seeing this a lot. Uh my friend
40:11Lulu Berve uh advises, you know, many of
40:15the tech uh like the most elite founders
40:17in tech. She she handles their personal
40:19comms and a lot her her manifesto is
40:22just like you should go direct like
40:23you're the one very similar to the
40:25advice that James Dyson's uh mentor gave
40:28him you know half a century ago it's
40:30like you came up with a product you you
40:33know every single in and out of the
40:34product you you're the guardian of the
40:37company's soul you should be the one
40:38doing the selling you should be the one
40:40out there making the case for why people
40:42should either work for your company buy
40:44your product what uh invest in your
40:46company all this Uh again, like it's a
40:49people relate to people, not companies.
40:52Um another thing, prevention is not a an
40:57appeal that's going to work that you
40:58should be selling painkillers, not
41:00vitamins. He made a ton of money off
41:02Pepsidant toothpaste, which I'll get to
41:04in a minute. And so he's talking about
41:06this entire chapter of everything he did
41:08for Pepsidin. And he says, "I resolved
41:09to advertise this toothpaste as a
41:11creator of beauty. The natural idea in
41:13respect to a toothpaste at the time was
41:15to make it preventative." So, you know,
41:17use it now so your teeth don't fall out
41:18or your teeth don't decay. He says, "But
41:21my experience has taught me that
41:22preventative measures were not popular.
41:24People will do anything to cure a
41:25trouble, but little to prevent it.
41:27Countless advertising ideas have been
41:28wrecked by not understanding that phase
41:30of human nature. Prevention offers
41:32slight appeal to humanity in general.
41:34They want to be told. People want to be
41:36told of rewards. People want to be told
41:38the ways to be happy, to be happier, and
41:40to be more cheerful, to be more
41:41beautiful. This point is important.
41:44Every advertising campaign depends on
41:46its psychology. Success or failure is
41:48determined by the right or wrong appeal.
41:50Folks give little thought to warding off
41:52disasters. Their main ambition is to
41:54attain more success, more happiness,
41:56more beauty, more cheer. I recognize
41:58that fundamental belief. I've never
42:00referred to disasters. I have never
42:02pictured the afflicted. Every
42:04illustration I've ever used rather
42:06showed attractive people and beautiful
42:08teeth.
42:10And he says,"I made for myself a million
42:13dollars on Pepsin." This is an insane
42:15amount of money at this time in history,
42:16by the way, just because I learned the
42:19right human psychology. And then one of
42:22my favorite maxims that I've come across
42:23is that genius has the fewest moving
42:25parts. What I love about Claude Hopkins,
42:28and this speaks to also Albert Lasker,
42:31because Albert Lasker made more money
42:33than everybody advertising, like I've
42:34told you a few times already, but he
42:35also did in a simple way. He didn't have
42:36art departments. He didn't have all the
42:38staff. His whole thing was like, well,
42:39if I can just write the best, if I can
42:41find the best copywriting that increases
42:44sales, that's the only thing my business
42:47has to do. And so, he just hired and the
42:49best copyrighters in the world and let
42:50them write copy that made sales and then
42:52they made all the money. And he wouldn't
42:54even make them work in the office. So,
42:56in many times, uh, Hopkins has like a
43:00country house and he was talking about
43:02earning, you know, hundreds of thousands
43:04of dollars a year at the time. So that'd
43:06be making, you know, 2030 million,
43:08something like that in today's dollars.
43:10It's just a lot of money. And he he says
43:12it was all earned at a typewriter, which
43:14I operated myself without a clerk or a
43:16secretary. That's incredible. And then
43:18he talks about how he learned how to do
43:20this. How have I been able to win from
43:21this situation so many great successes
43:22simply because I made so many mistakes
43:24in a small way and learned something
43:26from each. I made no mistake twice.
43:29Every once in a while, I developed some
43:31great advertising principle that
43:33endured. That method costs me an
43:36enormous amount of time. More time than
43:38other men are apt to devote. Much more
43:40time and much more sacrifice than other
43:42men are apt to devote. That is the
43:44purpose of this autobiography to help
43:46other men start where I ended. Goes back
43:50to one of his maxims that you should
43:52forget yourself entirely. I have seen
43:54many an ad killed by a single
43:57unfortunate phrase, usually a selfish
43:59phrase. Phrases like insist on buying
44:01this brand, avoid imitations, look out
44:04for substitution. Such appeals have no
44:06good effect and they indicate a motive
44:09with which buyers cannot sympathize.
44:11Forget yourself entirely. Seek in every
44:14word to increase your good impression.
44:16Say only what you think a good salesman
44:19should say if that prospect stood before
44:21him. Do not boast. He repeats that over
44:24and over again. Do not boast. Not about
44:26anything more interesting to you than
44:27your prospect. Boasting is repulsive.
44:31Another thing that all the great
44:32advertisers and copyrighters through
44:34history will repeat is once you have an
44:36ad that works. Stick to it. Stop
44:37changing it. Stop jumping around. They
44:39say this over and over again. You see
44:40people, modern day people make this
44:42mistake over and over again. The um the
44:44way that David Oggoy summarized this for
44:45me that I never forgot. He says, "You're
44:47not advertising to standing army. You're
44:48advertising to moving parade." Claude
44:50Hopkins says the advertising man clings
44:52to the methods he established. He fears
44:54to change. He's talking about the good
44:55people. As a matter of fact, it's seldom
44:57wise to change. The best way to win new
45:00customers is usually the way that won
45:01millions, but the advertising becomes
45:03monotonous to the men who read every ad.
45:06They always come to want something new.
45:09So, his whole point is like you should
45:10stick with what you're work stick with
45:12what is working. Don't let that your
45:15impression clouds effectiveness. You're
45:17reading every single ad, but your
45:19customers are not. You're advertising.
45:21You aren't advertising to standing army.
45:23You're advertising to a moving parade.
45:25Uh then he also talks about the fact
45:27that if you're staying close to the
45:28money and you're increasing sales, you
45:30will be very very rich. But you have to
45:32capture the value you help create. So he
45:34talks about with Pepsid and toothpaste,
45:36he's like, "Hey, I know my
45:37copyrightiting and my advertising is
45:38going to increase your sales and I'm
45:40going to put my money where my mouth
45:41is." So he goes, "I bought shares at the
45:43beginning of the project for $13,000."
45:46Okay? So I'm I'm going to put up 13
45:49grand. I'm going to buy your own buy
45:51your shares, right? And my advertising
45:53is going to make that more value. at
45:5513,000 for that those shares. It paid
45:57him $200,000 of dividends. And then he
45:59also sold that that 13,000 many years
46:01later for $500 grand. Goes back to the
46:04importance of focusing of spending more
46:06hours focused on one thing. If you have
46:08this singular focus like Claude Hopkins
46:10had, you will derive insights to the
46:12people that did not dedicate all the
46:13time and effort and midnight oil that
46:15you did. They'll never get the same uh
46:18knowledge. They won't have the same
46:20insights. They just will not have the
46:22same effectiveness as you do. I've
46:23always been an addict to work. I love
46:25work as other men love play. It is both
46:27my occupation and my recreation. As a
46:29boy, the necessity for self-sport after
46:31school hours kept me from the
46:32playgrounds. As a man, my desire to
46:34learn all that I could about
46:35salesmanship has kept me from wasting
46:37time. The only game I ever learned is
46:40business. To me, it has been all
46:42absorbing. And then I reference that
46:43Claw just writes in a very simple way.
46:46He doesn't kind of hide his points from
46:47me at all. He has a chapter in
46:48scientific advertising that's called
46:50just salesmanship. And that's he's like
46:52that's all advertising is. Advertising
46:54is salesmanship. Its principles are the
46:55principles of salesmanship. Thus, every
46:57advertising question should be answered
46:59by the salesman's standards. Advertising
47:01is multiplied salesmanship. It may
47:04appeal to thousands while the salesman
47:06will talk to one. A mediocre salesman
47:08may affect a small part of your
47:10business. Mediocre advertising affects
47:12it all. And so he continues, there's one
47:15simple and right way to answer many
47:16advertising questions. Ask yourself,
47:18would this help a salesman sell the
47:19goods? Would it help me sell if I met
47:22the buyer in person? Some tell you to be
47:25very brief that people will read but
47:27they'll read very little. Would you say
47:29that to a salesman with prospects
47:31standing before him? Would you confine
47:33him to a certain number of words? That
47:35would be an unthinkable handicap.
47:37Consider them as prospects standing
47:39before you. So it goes back to again
47:41that idea advertising the salesman
47:42salesmanship.
47:44All your ad should be like directed to
47:46one person as if that person was
47:47standing in front of you. They've
47:49expressed interest already, right?
47:50That's what your headline grabbed them
47:52or your the image that you use grabbed
47:53them. Now that you have their attention,
47:55how would you talk to them if they're
47:56just one person? Don't speak to them in
47:58mass. Consider them a mess. I love this
47:59idea. Consider them as pro prospects
48:01standing before you seeking information.
48:04Give them enough to get action. So this
48:06idea of like, hey, everybody says
48:08they're not going to read or they won't
48:09listen to watch a commercial, whatever
48:10the case is. It's like people will give
48:12time to what they're interested in if
48:14you make it interesting too. And the
48:16line that uh Claude Hopkins uses on this
48:19that David Ogre would repeat is that the
48:20more you tell, the more you sell. In
48:22fact, in some cases, their most
48:24successful ads are like 15,000 words
48:28long, but it's an interesting story,
48:31interesting information about a product
48:32that the person's already indicated
48:34interested in because they they read the
48:36headline and decided to read the body
48:37copy. Do not think of people in mass.
48:39It's like over and over again. Just says
48:41the same stuff. Think of a typical
48:43individual who is likely to want what
48:45you sell. Money spending is a serious
48:47matter. Do not boast. He said that
48:49before. Don't try to show off. Do what
48:51you think a good salesman should do with
48:53a halfsold person before him. The
48:56advertising man studies the consumer. He
48:59tries to place himself in the position
49:01of the buyer. His success largely
49:04depends on doing that to the exclusion
49:06of everything else. Now he has another
49:10chapter. We're in scientific advertising
49:11which is if you buy the his audio book
49:13he includes scientific advertising in
49:15the back of this book and he has a
49:17chapter again the chapters are very
49:18simple and I think it really illustrates
49:20the principles that he think are he
49:21thinks are very important the ones that
49:22he learned for decades of experience.
49:24Offer service
49:26remember that people you address are
49:27selfish we all are. They care nothing
49:29about your interest or your profit. They
49:31seek service for themselves. Ignoring
49:33this fact is a common mistake and it's
49:35very costly in advertising. Ads say in
49:37effect, "Buy my brand. Give me the trade
49:39you give others. Let me have the money."
49:41This is not a popular appeal. The best
49:43ads ask no one to buy. The ads are based
49:46entirely on service. They offer wanted
49:48information. They cite advantages to
49:49users. Some of these ads can seem
49:51altruistic, but they are based on a
49:53knowledge of human nature. The writers
49:55of those ads know how people are led to
49:58buy. The good salesman does not say,
50:00"Buy my product." He pictures the
50:02customer side of his service until the
50:04natural result is to buy. And so he
50:06gives this example of at the time this
50:09guy made hair brushes, right? And his
50:11distribution strategy is he hired 2,000
50:14door-to-dair salespeople, but they
50:15didn't knock on the door and say, "Hey,
50:16look, I have a brush. Do you want, you
50:18know, try to brush your hair? It brushes
50:20your hair better. It does XYZ." This is
50:22very fascinating. So he says he is
50:24enormously successful in an industry
50:26which would seem very difficult and it
50:28would be if his men ask the housewives
50:30to buy. Remember he said the best ads
50:31ask no one to buy. But they don't. They
50:34go door todo and say, "I was sent here
50:36to give you a brush. I have samples here
50:39and I want you to take your choice." In
50:41picking out one brush, she sees several
50:44that she wants. She's also anxious to
50:47reciprocate the gift. So, the salesman
50:49gets an order. And this is the summary
50:52of the chapter. People can be coaxed but
50:54not driven. Whatever they do, they do to
50:57please themselves. Many fewer mistakes
50:59would be made in advertising if these
51:01facts were not forgotten. You know how
51:04it's funny how he says, "Hey, don't
51:05change your ads. Just repeat it over and
51:07over again. The best way to get new
51:08customers is the way that you got the
51:10customers before them." Uh the fact that
51:12he just repeats these ideas. He he used
51:14that same idea because he just repeats
51:15them these same ideas over and over
51:17again throughout the book. And so a few
51:18pages later, he says, "The motto is the
51:20more you tell, the more you sell." It
51:21has never failed to prove out in any
51:24test we know. It's almost like he's like
51:26wondering if you're paying attention
51:27because he'll say the same idea.
51:29Sometimes he uses different words, but
51:30it'll illustrate the same concept over
51:32and over again. And then he gets to
51:34headlines and this is what uh sparked my
51:36initial interest. And it's like, you
51:37know, I'm obsessed with the the best and
51:39most memorable way to essentially
51:42distill down an idea, which I think you
51:44and I do a lot on this podcast together.
51:46Uh, one one of the things that I
51:47stumbled upon was when I was reading the
51:49the autobiography, the Four Seasons, the
51:51founder of Four Seasons, Isidor Sharp.
51:53And he described, you know, he talks
51:55about the process of of building one of
51:57the most valuable and historic brands of
51:59all time, companies of all time. And he
52:01kind of summarizes in one word for us.
52:02He says, "Excellence is the capacity to
52:04take pain." And if you read that book
52:06really is just all the pain that he had
52:09to persevere through to get to the other
52:11side of this thing. He started wanted to
52:13build he had this ridiculous idea at the
52:15time what other people thought
52:16ridiculous like I'm going to build the
52:17most premier luxury hotel brand in the
52:19world and I've never built a hotel
52:21before so obviously between that thought
52:24and the realization of that dream is
52:25going to be a lot of pain and a lot of
52:27people obviously run from that pain and
52:28can't persevere through it. So
52:29excellence, capacity to take pain. And
52:31so what spawned me and I had this idea,
52:34I was thinking about it this week about
52:35why I wanted to read scientific
52:37advertising was for Claude Hopkins
52:39insights on headlines. And so this is
52:40the chapter on headlines. The purpose of
52:42a headline is to pick out people you
52:44could interest. You wish to talk to
52:45someone in a crowd. So the first thing
52:47you say is, "Hey there, Bill Jones." to
52:49get the right person's attention.
52:51Headlines on ads are like headlines on
52:53news items. Nobody reads a whole
52:55newspaper. We pick out what we wish to
52:57read by headlines. And we don't want
52:59those headlines to be misleading. The
53:01writing of headlines is one of the
53:03greatest journalistic arts. They either
53:05conceal or reveal an interest. Always
53:09bear these facts in mind. People are
53:11hurried. They want to be amused or
53:13benefited. There may be products which
53:16interest them more than anything else,
53:17but they will never know it unless the
53:19headline tells them. The writer of this
53:22chapter, meaning himself, spends far
53:23more time on headlines than on writing.
53:26Oggov said the same thing. He said
53:28something like um 80 80 or 90% of people
53:32will read the headline than the body
53:37copy. So therefore it follows that you
53:39should spend the majority of your time
53:41writing the headline. Right? So he says
53:43I spend more for more time on headlines
53:46than on writing. Uh I often spend hours
53:48on a single headline. Often scores of
53:50headlines are discarded before the right
53:51one is selected for the entire return
53:54from an ad depends on attracting the
53:56right sort of readers. The best of
53:58salesmanship has no chance whatever
54:01unless we get a hearing. So his point is
54:04that what's the point of explaining your
54:06product or describing the benefits,
54:08right? The headline gets them
54:11interested. It is the door that opens
54:13up. So they come inside and they
54:14actually like read and and and this case
54:18listen or watch or whatever the case is
54:20about your product, right? The way I
54:23think about this and why it has to be
54:24entertaining and can't be misleading.
54:27Oh, David Olby has another great maxim.
54:28He says we can't save souls in an empty
54:30church. Right? This is what infuriates
54:32me about other like business podcast for
54:34example. I think entrepreneurship is the
54:36most fascinating subject in the world. I
54:37think founders, people that create
54:38things that did not exist in the world
54:40are the most important people in the
54:41world. It is there all kinds of crazy
54:44characters and stories and fascinating
54:46ideas they have and the way they live
54:47their lives. It's insane. I'm still this
54:49podcast was started next month. So
54:52September 2016 was when I started
54:54Founders. So that's what a month from
54:55next month. It be 10 years. I am still
54:58I'm more interested in entrepreneurship
54:59today than I was when I started. I don't
55:01think I'll ever not be interested in it.
55:03How the hell you make that subject
55:04boring? It's insane to me. So you can't
55:07say souls in an empty church. We can
55:09educate and inspire, right? But like the
55:12first thing you have to do is entertain
55:13before you educate and inspire. So I
55:15think that's what they're hitting out
55:16here. It's like you have to figure out
55:18what is the headline. What is the hook
55:19that's going to get people interested in
55:21what you want to teach them about? And
55:23in his case, like he's writing for for
55:25products. Those products, all product is
55:27some is an idea that makes somebody
55:29else's life better. So spend a lot of
55:31time figuring out what that main appeal
55:33is to your your um your your prospect
55:36your the customer that you want to
55:38actually buy you and and you do that
55:40obviously through a lot of research. He
55:41talks about that a lot too. But the
55:42reason this is so important and I think
55:45what's one of the best examples of this
55:46when he just said hey um you know uh
55:49spend so much time on a single headline
55:52uh the entire return could depend on
55:55just attracting the right person and you
55:58do that through the headline. I don't
55:59know why but when I read that I think of
56:01what Steve Jobs did with the iPod. He
56:03it's like he explained the the entire
56:05value prop in a handful of words.
56:06Thousand songs in your pocket. That
56:09peaks you up. It gets me interested.
56:10What? I want a thousand songs in my
56:11pocket. How is that even possible?
56:12What'd you make? Then I'll listen to
56:14your whole presentation and I'll watch
56:15the product demo or read the ad or
56:17whatever the case is. I think it's
56:18really really fascinating. So again,
56:20salesmanship has no chance whatsoever
56:22unless we get hearing. You can't save
56:23souls in an empty church. The identical
56:25ad run with various headlines differs
56:27tremendously in its returns. It's not
56:28uncommon for a change in headlines to
56:30multiply returns from five to 10 times
56:33over. So Claude Hopkins says changing
56:35the headline can multiply returns by
56:36five to 10 times. in Ogrey's books which
56:38are written probably two or three
56:40decades after this one he says uh he's
56:43seen 19 to1 a difference it's insane
56:47returns vary enormously due to headlines
56:50address the people you seek and them
56:53only he will return to this idea later
56:56then he talks about psychology which he
56:58again he has entire chapters on this
56:59this is very very important the
57:00competent advertising man must
57:02understand psychology human nature is
57:04perpetual it is the same today in
57:06today's time as it was in in the time of
57:07Caesar. So the principles of psychology
57:09are fixed and enduring. You will never
57:11need to unlearn what you learn about
57:12them. We learn for instance that
57:15curiosity is one of the strongest human
57:16incentives. We employ it whenever we
57:19can. So then he gives some examples of
57:22these psychological quirks that uh we
57:24endure and you'll see over and over
57:26again. People judge things largely by
57:29price. Uh so he gives this example where
57:31there this painting was announced that
57:33it cost $750,000.
57:36before you tell people that that
57:38painting cost $750,000 which at the time
57:41you know would be let's say 100 million
57:42today. I'm just making the number up but
57:43a big number right says most people pass
57:46it by don't even give it a second glance
57:48then you tell them hey that painting 750
57:51grand uh and they learn what the
57:53painting costs they return and then
57:55surround it actually creates a crowd
57:58because it's so expensive. Another thing
58:00that he found was that we are tribal by
58:03nature and we like to belong to groups.
58:06So he says it is found that if an offer
58:09is limited to a certain class of people,
58:11it is far more effective than a general
58:12offer. For instance, an offer limited to
58:15veterans of the war or to members of a
58:17lodge or to executives. Those who are
58:19entitled to any seemingly advant
58:21advantage by being part of a group will
58:23go long way not to lose that advantage.
58:27Another one, an identical offer. And he
58:30he makes this he makes this point again
58:32about why like again just slight
58:35slightly different positioning on the
58:36same ad is so important. He goes these
58:38things are very important. An identical
58:39offer made in different ways may bring
58:41multiplied returns and that could be
58:43thorough. Something like changing that
58:44the the headline could be changing the
58:46way it's presented. It could be changing
58:48the fact that it needs to belong to a
58:49specific group or could it even be more
58:51expensive. Another way to uh increase
58:54and multiply the returns of your
58:56advertising is you be specific. Use
58:58actual numbers. And he gives great
59:00examples here. So you'll see this like
59:02hey you go into some town it's like
59:04we're the best cheesecake in the world
59:05or something like that. Says platitudes
59:07and generalities roll off to human
59:08understanding like water from a duck.
59:10They have no impression whatsoever. To
59:12say best in the world, lowest prices,
59:14etc. are all at best simply claiming the
59:17expected. A definitive statement is
59:19usually accepted. However, actual
59:22figures are not genuinely discounted.
59:24Specific facts have their full weight
59:26and effect. The weight of an argument
59:28may often be multiplied by making it
59:30specific. So, he gives an example of a
59:33lot of people would sell uh clothing,
59:35for example, and they would say, "Hey,
59:36we have the lowest prices in America."
59:38That's not really an effective appeal.
59:40One guy who was selling a bunch of
59:42clothing says, "My net profit is 3%."
59:45That was a definitive statement and it
59:47proved very impressive. So again,
59:50essentially illustrating the same idea
59:52like we have really low prices. We're
59:53saying low price in America. Okay, I
59:55only make 3% profit. What if you're a
59:57customer? It's like, okay, that that's
59:58pretty wild. That means they're barely
1:00:00scraping by. I probably can't get this
1:00:03article of clothing for cheaper than
1:00:05anybody else that it's essentially
1:00:06selling at almost no profit margin.
1:00:08Gives another example of people, a lot
1:00:10of different people selling razors to
1:00:12shave your face. Many uh makers of
1:00:14razors have long advertised quick
1:00:16shaves. One maker advertised a 78 second
1:00:19shave. That was the definitive
1:00:21statement. It indicated actual test
1:00:23results. That man made a sensual
1:00:26sensational advance in his sales. And
1:00:28then he goes back to the importance of
1:00:30headlines. And this is a great way of
1:00:31summarizing his main idea. Your main
1:00:34appeal should lie in your headline.
1:00:36Whatever promise, the best promise that
1:00:38you have, which is the actual benefit
1:00:41that the customer gets from using your
1:00:43product, make sure it's in the headline.
1:00:46Go back to Steve Jobs. 10,000 songs in
1:00:48your pocket. His main appeal was in the
1:00:51headline. And then he ends with effort.
1:00:54An ad writer to have a chance of success
1:00:56must gain full information on his
1:00:58subject. A painstaking advertising man
1:01:01will often read for weeks on some
1:01:03problem which comes up. Perhaps in many
1:01:06volumes he will find few facts to use,
1:01:08but some one fact may be the keystone of
1:01:12his success. to advertise a toothpaste.
1:01:15This writer has also read many volumes
1:01:18of scientific matter that was dry as
1:01:20dust. But in the middle of one volume,
1:01:23he found the idea which has helped make
1:01:25millions for that toothpaste maker.
1:01:28Genius is the art of taking pains. That
1:01:31is too good not to say again. Genius is
1:01:34the art of taking pains. The advertising
1:01:37man who spares the midnight oil will
1:01:39never get very far. Let me interrupt
1:01:41this where he says, "Hey, I'm reading
1:01:43through volume after volume of this
1:01:45scientific matter. It's dry as dust.
1:01:47It's boring, but I just found one single
1:01:49sentence, one idea that was the basis,
1:01:51the cornerstone of this advertising
1:01:53campaign that made my customer, my
1:01:56client millions." Olgvie said this, had
1:01:58the same thing happen. He was reading
1:02:00through hundreds of pages, if I remember
1:02:01correctly, about his co his customer
1:02:03Rolls-Royce, and he said it was in like
1:02:05some obscure engineering document.
1:02:07Wasn't even meant for consumption of
1:02:08advertising. had it wasn't even meant to
1:02:10be seen by the outside world. And he
1:02:12found a line that was the basis for one
1:02:15of his most successful advertising
1:02:16campaigns of all time. And it says at 60
1:02:18m an hour, the loudest noise in this new
1:02:21Rolls-Royce comes from the electric
1:02:23clock. Genius is the art of taking pain,
1:02:27the advertising man who spares the
1:02:28midnight oil will never get very far. An
1:02:31advertising campaign is usually preceded
1:02:34by a very large volume of data. The
1:02:37uninformed would be staggered to know
1:02:39the amount of work involved in a single
1:02:41ad. Weeks of work. The ad seems so
1:02:44simple and it must be simple to appeal.
1:02:48But back of that ad may lie reams of
1:02:51data, volumes of information, and months
1:02:54of research. This is no lazy man's
1:02:58field. And that is where I'll leave it.
1:03:00highly recommend reading both his
1:03:02autobiography, My Life and Advertising,
1:03:04and his book on advertising called
1:03:06Scientific Advertising. That is 4 and 30
1:03:09books down, 1,000 to go. And I'll talk
1:03:11to you again soon.

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