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How To Improve Your Positional Play | Dojo Talks w/ GM Aagaard — Transcript

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0:00Sorry, I I should have said this from
0:01start. This is number one rule of
0:03training. If you're training, it's a
0:10success. Hey folks, Costia here and
0:13you're about to listen to an interview
0:15that I recently recorded with
0:17Grandmaster Yakob Agard at the end of
0:19the killer chess training camp which
0:22just took place in Spain earlier this
0:24month, May 2025. Yakob is one of the top
0:28chess coaches in the world. He's worked
0:30with a number of world-class players. Uh
0:32and I think you can truly learn a lot
0:34from him in this discussion. We first
0:37start off talking about positional play
0:39which was also the topic uh from the
0:41camp. And Jakob gives a number of great
0:44tips on how to improve your
0:45understanding of chess. But then we also
0:47get into a number of other topics
0:49surrounding chess improvement as well.
0:52some great mindset stuff, how to work on
0:54your calculation, how to review your
0:55games, and all kinds of other things
0:57that I think will be very, very
0:58insightful if you're looking to improve
1:00your game. For the YouTube audience,
1:03I've included a number of the games and
1:05positions and books, uh, the Yakob uh,
1:07references throughout the interview, so
1:08you can check those out on your screen.
1:11And otherwise, I've also included a
1:13number of nice photos from the camp as
1:15well, so you can see a little bit about
1:17what it was like uh to be there and uh
1:20learn from Yakob and the rest of the
1:21coaches at Killer Chess Training. So,
1:24make sure to check out
1:26killerchestraining.com if you would like
1:27to learn from Yakob. And lastly, uh if
1:30you're not a member of the dojo training
1:33program, well, we recently launched 4.0,
1:36our yearly update. And so now is a great
1:38time uh to join the dojo as any. So make
1:41sure to check out chess dojo.comclub as
1:44well. All righty. I truly hope you enjoy
1:46this conversation as much as I enjoyed
1:48having it. So without any further ado,
1:50let's get into it. Grandmaster Yakob,
1:54how does one improve their positional
1:57play?
1:59Well, there's many ways to do it, of
2:00course, and I'm going to give one
2:03suggestion uh or one strategy. Um
2:06obviously I should say you should join
2:08killer chest training. Uh I'm doing
2:10lectures on positional play and a lot of
2:12uh practical training on positional play
2:14at the moment there. So uh and it's very
2:16cheap. Um but sales pitch out of the
2:19way. Um I think from for me I like to
2:23break things down into the elements. Uh
2:26so to understand what weaknesses really
2:28are, understand uh how to to deal with
2:31peace play, to understand exchanges.
2:35um to to really understand prophylactic
2:38thinking. Uh we had in the camp here we
2:41had as one example where we had this
2:43famous game nine from the 1974 match
2:46between K and Spatzky and I read about
2:49it in another book and I I didn't like
2:50the annotations there and that's why I
2:52wrote this camp. There's a a move 17
2:55where you me and everyone else would
2:57have played queen E2 with white. Karpov
2:59played queen F1 and I even hypothesis
3:02hypo I can't say the word hypothes yeah
3:05no reason to pretend here you know I'm
3:07I'm Danish uh hoop here um that uh that
3:12Kov had planned the move a few moves in
3:14advance because played rook f2 which
3:16looks slightly odd but uh sort of very
3:19flexible and then then the queen went to
3:20f1 and the reason why the queen went to
3:23f1 was not some very very very deep and
3:25abstract idea it was that black wanted
3:27to play knight a6 and bishop C5, but now
3:30which you could do after queen E2, you
3:32could play like that for white. And
3:34Stockfish will say it's also gives a
3:36very nice position. But Ko's idea was to
3:39prevent what he thought was the most
3:41obvious positional idea for black, which
3:43was to exchange a pair of bishops. So
3:45white wouldn't have the two bishops
3:46anymore, especially exchange white's
3:48good bishops for black's bad bishop. And
3:51if these terminologies are new to you,
3:53then sort of learning about the the
3:55basic of positional play, uh it's very
3:58useful.
4:00Um so he played this queen f1 move with
4:03the idea of knight f a6. There was
4:05bishop e2 and and there's a tactic with
4:08something hanging on f6. Uh and I think
4:11for kpo very often he played this very
4:13kind of simple prophylactic. So he's a
4:16study a case to study if you want to
4:18understand prophylactic play and you
4:20constantly find out what is black
4:22actually trying to do when Ko is white
4:23and then Ko's moves make total sense.
4:27Um so yeah I think if you understand the
4:31basics
4:32then looking at games by players who are
4:35very good at positional play and here
4:37I'm talking people who play positionally
4:40and technically. So for me that's sort
4:42of the slightly different definition. I
4:43know everyone defines things slightly
4:45differently, but for me technically is
4:47when you play for long-term advantage.
4:50Now, I also think I play positionally
4:52and then I try to take your head off.
4:55And this is positionally and dynamic and
4:57I play for for more short-term things,
4:59attack and and and complicated position.
5:02But I still try to have my pieces play
5:04together and my pieces play together
5:06with my pawns. Try to unnecessarily
5:08weaken myself.
5:10uh try to create weaknesses in the
5:12opponent's position, try to exploit
5:14weaknesses in the foreigner's positions.
5:16And yeah, the technical and dynamic both
5:20would be positional like also with
5:23strategic which simply is long-term
5:25things, long-term plans, long-term
5:28ideas. Uh could also be both technical
5:31and dynamic in in the way I like to set
5:34it up. People use a lot of these words
5:36interchangeably.
5:37And if you know they do it and you don't
5:40get offended by them doing it, but still
5:42want to have more precise definitions, I
5:44think the way I'm uh saying it is more
5:48useful for
5:50uh not because right or wrong, but it's
5:52more useful for your your improvement
5:54for your your thought about it. So in
5:57the case of if you don't really know
5:59these terminologies there are there are
6:01a number of uh good books out there.
6:04Remember there was a book like 20 years
6:06ago by a creation writer for Gambit
6:09which I liked. Uh and I have to point
6:11out that I don't own Gambit. Uh so I
6:14have no stock in this book. So I'm
6:15actually recommending a book from uh uh
6:18opponent. Uh so not not opponent but
6:21competitor. so so much a chess player
6:24that I even think of competitors as
6:26opponents but you know I analyze with my
6:28opponents I have drinks with them
6:29afterwards and that's also how I feel
6:31about competitors is like it's good to
6:33compete and then we all do our best and
6:35then uh we compare notes over drinks
6:39um so yeah that was a good book
6:43um I know a classic is a is my system um
6:49which I do publish in several of my
6:52companies
6:53Um, it's not necessarily my favorite,
6:55but some people really love it. When I
6:57read it, it was very useful for me, but
6:59I was already quite a good player. I won
7:02I read it and then I I went to win the
7:04B-group of the Danish championship,
7:05which was sort of FM level uh
7:08tournament.
7:11Um, you you I I Okay, I should I should
7:14recommend some more books here for
7:15people who want the fundamentals. I
7:17would like to recommend the Yubo series.
7:19I'd like to re recommend chess
7:22structures a grandmaster guide by uh
7:24Mauricio Flores and they're available in
7:26many formats and chess and chess tambbo
7:30uh for chess print and paperback and
7:33hardback and uh I think videos also uh
7:37both with art for chessible and Pet
7:40Nilson did a reflective video where he's
7:42coming with additional things and if you
7:44don't know who Peter is is a coach of
7:48the last two world champion uh previous
7:50to Google. So it's a that's a
7:52significant person and also uh the
7:56strongest player of my country in my
7:57generation. So we're same age. Exactly.
8:00So So okay to sum up first you got to
8:03understand the basics. You need to know
8:05what a bad bishop is. You need to know
8:06what a weakness is. Um then from there
8:10you mentioned okay reading books, good
8:12courses.
8:14um and uh studying the games of great
8:18players. Um what about let's say
8:21reviewing one's games? Like it's very
8:23easy to know if you have a problem with
8:26tactics because you'll see the blunders
8:28in your games. How do you recognize the
8:30same issue with positional play?
8:35Yeah. So, um, so we we're later going to
8:39look at some of your games and I'm going
8:40to bring up some some things and because
8:43you're already a very strong player, it
8:45will be sort of even though it will be
8:47simple things, there will be a little
8:48more uh on an abstract level.
8:53Um, but I think it's very hard for uh
8:57let's say what what new chess calls club
9:00players. I call the people who are early
9:03in their journey in chess because it's I
9:05wanted to not sound elitist and other
9:07people would call them amateurs but I'm
9:09also an amateur. Nobody pays me for
9:11playing chess. So uh I I I don't sort of
9:15don't like that term but but people who
9:17are you know have not invested as many
9:20years of their lives in actual hours
9:23into test that that you and I
9:26have. I think it's very hard to do it
9:29with your own games without the advice
9:30of someone else. I think it's very hard
9:33to do it with the engine. Um, and
9:36therefore I would actually focus on, you
9:37know, finding books with good
9:39explanations from training players who
9:43play in a certain style. I am, you know,
9:46working, as I said, the academy. We're
9:48giving all these uh lessons. We're very
9:50much focused on the basics. And uh if
9:54you know me right it might actually even
9:56turn into a book you know so so but
9:58that's not available at the moment
10:01um but there are other people who have
10:03written about this
10:05and I think
10:08uh yeah either read or uh or watch
10:12courses as videos or uh you guys have
10:16done a lot of great stuff uh on your
10:18channel which
10:19uh can also and you will sort of uh pick
10:22pick a lot of things up and if you you
10:25start to see things being
10:27interconnected then when you're
10:28analyzing within engine you can see well
10:31yeah I lost because of this tactic here
10:34but maybe it's because I didn't put out
10:36my pieces faster. So for examp we're
10:38going to look at your game to crank it
10:40and uh there was just one moment where
10:42your opponent had this very brilliant
10:44attack and he never saw it idea move 18
10:48of the first game I remember. Yeah. So
10:51and of course you look with an engine
10:54and sort of the thing I wanted to say
10:56with with that point from from about you
10:59is like there should be something in
11:00your hand that wants to develop the
11:02bishop first because you could sort of
11:04play the moves in both order. Mhm. You
11:06could play knight d4 and bishop g7 and
11:09the move order sort of doesn't matter.
11:10It seems it does because of very extreme
11:14tactics that I think no one saw during
11:17the game and and maybe they're not so
11:18relevant but it's still it should give
11:20you the thing like okay the thing I did
11:22wrong was not that I missed this
11:23brilliant idea. The thing I I did wrong
11:26was I didn't develop my bishop because
11:28it's much more fundamental level and
11:30it's something you can actually take
11:31with you for for for future games. And
11:35when you are at a level of let's say
11:381,800,900 feeder which was maybe like
11:402,000
11:41USCF I think you start to be able to
11:44make a lot of those connections
11:46yourself. Um and then you come into
11:49being able to really analyze with an
11:52engine in a way that it gives you um
11:56something you can understand that you
11:58you can sort of navigate it and then we
12:01we sort of are now smoothly going into
12:03analyzing your own games. Uh which we'll
12:06do outside we'll do something on later.
12:08But
12:10um there in that situation to have that
12:13engine as someone you can talk to if you
12:15don't have access to a coach or
12:17experienced who can uh talk to you uh
12:22about things and by the way I want to
12:23give an advice also to to people if they
12:26have a coach just like try to get the
12:28coach to think don't don't let him just
12:30read what the engine is saying it's well
12:32it's like u I think everyone's sort of
12:36comfortable like nobody walks a long way
12:39home, everyone walks the shortcut even
12:42if they need a bit of cardio.
12:45Um, so it's just natural. Uh like I I
12:49I've sort of forced myself to park far
12:51away from the supermarket in the
12:53supermarket car park sort of on
12:55principle because partly because I I
12:58don't want people to
12:59uh to hit me my car as has happened in
13:03the past and I don't want to uh be sort
13:07of lazy and s in the same way uh with
13:10chess coaches uh you know especially
13:13online classes where you see part of the
13:15other screen it's very easy to just turn
13:17on the engine and have it there. I mean,
13:19it's very easy, uh, work and most people
13:22when they work like things to be easy,
13:24okay? Um, but for the student, uh,
13:27what's really interesting is to hear the
13:30thought processes, see what the coach
13:32seeing and seeing their imperfections
13:34and the the humanity and try to have a
13:37an interaction with with them where they
13:40talk about thing and explain things and
13:42how they see it. And if they're wrong,
13:45you know, that's that's part of the the
13:46thing like why are they then wrong? And
13:48then you can talk about together and uh
13:52we had a long
13:53philosophical discussion, Stannislav and
13:55I had at breakfast at exactly this and
13:58uh he's also very eager and and good
14:02coach uh mainly of of children. But uh I
14:06was really emphasizing the most
14:08important thing for you is to be there
14:10with them mentally and that's good for
14:13the coach. It's good for the coaching.
14:15It's good for the student. Um so
14:19that's half of your questions
14:22maybe answer much more many more
14:24questions. No, you've already um you've
14:26already preceded multiple of my
14:27questions, but one thing I wanted to add
14:29when I was around this level like 18,
14:311900, one thing that was very helpful
14:33for me uh was watching commentary. Uh
14:36especially back in the day, I would
14:37watch many hours of like Yaser Sowan,
14:40for example. And and when he shows a
14:42position, he's focusing on the
14:44positional elements. He's not trying to
14:45show like crazy tactical lines. He's
14:48just saying like here's what white wants
14:49to do. Here's what black wants to do.
14:51Like here's what white wants to achieve.
14:52Here's what black wants to achieve. And
14:54then when he would analyze and like I
14:56think almost any good commentator when
14:58they analyze it's like the moves that
15:00come from their hand are often always
15:02positionally sound. And I found that
15:04just so interesting like what's the
15:06first move someone suggest in a position
15:08it's like oh that's the thing I should
15:09be looking at too. And then maybe it
15:11works tactically maybe it doesn't but
15:12it's like the thought process was always
15:14super helpful uh for me. And I feel like
15:17what you were saying about the coach
15:19definitely rings true. Like when I look
15:21at a student's games, I definitely try
15:23to look at them without the engine
15:25first, come to my own conclusions and
15:27then ideally not check the engine if I
15:29can. But then if I'm like really unsure,
15:31maybe I will check and see if my um uh
15:34my thoughts are right. But if I look at
15:36the game first with the engine, then I
15:38find it very hard to get into like the
15:40the human side of it and like, oh, what
15:42the players were actually thinking and
15:44what they were um considering. Um, but I
15:48want to say we're here uh in Spain right
15:50now. We just finished the killer chess
15:52training camp uh in Almria. Um,
15:55beautiful place. I very much enjoyed the
15:57camp. Uh, so thank you for inviting me
15:59first of all. You're very welcome. And
16:01thank you for asking to be invited.
16:04My pleasure. uh just for the record, he
16:07he asked to uh to come and play the
16:09tournament and we're very happy to have
16:11him. But uh we thought, you know, if
16:13you're here anyway, come and have the
16:14camp and have a good time. Yes. And I um
16:17No, I I took that opportunity with uh
16:19with both hands. Um and so the topic for
16:22the camp was positional play. Yes. And
16:24so we um we had you here, we also had
16:26Grandmaster Reineer Castellanos, Julian
16:28Arseni, uh fantastic coaches as well. Um
16:31and so I got a chance to to work with
16:33everyone. Um, and so the um the camp was
16:38centered around positional play. And I I
16:41guess I wanted to ask
16:44um like what are the challenges like
16:49with teaching positional play?
16:53Well, there there are are numbers of
16:56challenges. I we we still haven't
16:59received back our feedback forms from
17:00the camp but we you know we talked to
17:02people and uh uh you know we Ki and I we
17:07organized camps in 2018 and 19 and there
17:11were most of the participants was quite
17:12high level. Um in the 19 2018 camp we
17:17did we had only one room we had 13
17:19participants and it was uh boy scen and
17:22and me who was a coaches and there was
17:24like students were and you actually as
17:27you mentioned
17:28uh we became a grandmaster recently but
17:31Ulin has been for for many years and he
17:33was almost 2600 at the time. Etiban was
17:36there. there were were other very strong
17:38players FMs and IMs and people later
17:40became IM
17:42uh and GMs I think uh in that camp and
17:46it was um it was very high level and
17:49then in the 2019 camp it was I had a
17:52room of almost only grand masters and
17:54two little kids which were During Glap
17:56and Christopher U and then everyone else
17:59was a GM uh quite a few of them over
18:032600 and
18:06Um this time here we we had a different
18:09setup with we had uh really of all
18:12levels. Uh I think we had uh but only
18:16one grandmaster participating. We had uh
18:19you and I boost was also a part of some
18:22of it. So and that that was sort of the
18:24the strongest players here. Um we had a
18:27lot of 2300s 2200s.
18:30Um and there it's actually not so
18:33difficult to teach uh positional play
18:35because you're speaking from the same
18:36vocap. Um but I think for uh the lower
18:41group it was challenging. It was mainly
18:44who was was teaching them and it's the
18:47sort of some of the things that was
18:50difficult for translate for some people
18:52was that um so we had the position I
18:56don't know how much you can see the
18:58board here. Yeah. But
19:00but you put on YouTube audience you put
19:02on the first exercise I think the first
19:05day which was I think like castling kind
19:08of position or something where uh I will
19:12put up the position first. You can pause
19:14the video and try to guess where the
19:16right move is to to simply push the pawn
19:18to C6. Mhm. And you don't achieve much
19:21except that black takes it and then
19:24black's pawn structure is a little bit
19:25worse than it was before.
19:28And we did have sort of uh with some of
19:31the students here who are adult
19:33improvers and they were like yes but how
19:35do I improve it and how do I exploit it
19:37and how do I I deal with it and the the
19:41way the way I was trying to say it was I
19:43used the metaphor paper I think used the
19:45metaphor something else but it was the
19:47same metaphor that we sort of put a
19:49little thing on top of each other and
19:51eventually as a pilot we call that an
19:53advantage that's just giving slightly
19:56small improve improvements of our
19:58position or slight uh uh what do you
20:02call slight weakening of the opponent's
20:03position and you just slowly slowly
20:06slowly try to make something out of it
20:10and then the way of exploiting it will
20:11come by itself and uh I told this uh
20:15story at some point that I sort of had
20:18two experiences that were very eye
20:19opening for me in my own development and
20:22and one of them was I was already quite
20:24a good player I was had been 2450 Maybe
20:27I was was lower at this point, but I was
20:30in a camp with only grandmasters and the
20:32mat rescue was teaching. And the way I
20:35snuck myself into the camp was
20:36organizing it uh together with Peter
20:39Nielson. And uh at some point there was
20:42some calculation
20:44exercise and I didn't solve it and
20:47everyone else solved it and when they
20:49gave the solution I said yeah I saw this
20:51but this this this and there's even
20:53material in it. I didn't see that was so
20:55clear and they were like, "Oh, no, but
20:57there's weak points and so on. It's it's
20:59very obvious and I didn't I didn't get
21:01it like I I understood what they were
21:03saying, but I didn't have the the sort
21:06of the feeling of this will count in the
21:09end." And I think that is a huge problem
21:13for a lot of people who talk position
21:15say, "Yeah, I see the pawn structure got
21:16worse, but then what then?"
21:19Nothing. It will just happen. you you
21:22keep on playing and you just improved
21:24your chances a little bit. I think this
21:26mental thing for people with positional
21:28play is maybe the most
21:31difficult. I had the similar experience
21:34uh with Boris Gelfin. you're writing a
21:37positional decision making in chess
21:38together and I know you made like a
21:40video or two on it on your channel which
21:42I uh I saw at the time and I liked
21:46uh
21:49and this book writing this book was
21:51incredibly hard and very very tough
21:53experience and was a very interesting
21:55and challenging also. So the way we did
21:57it is the boys and I would uh use the
22:00play chess server where it's basically
22:02like the chessbased program but you can
22:04both move at the same time. So we could
22:06move together analyze together on a
22:07board and now I'm sure you can do it in
22:10in so many different ways. Chess.com
22:12vess everyone will have their options.
22:14Chess will have some also some trainer
22:18functions. Uh by the time that was sort
22:20of where we could do it and then I
22:22recorded everything on some very very uh
22:26stone age version of Zoom. Um and then I
22:30I would write the chapters and and and
22:32so I basically I wrote the book. It's
22:33not a secret. it's on the back cover.
22:36Um, but it's based on conversations and
22:38things we agree with uh and disagree and
22:41often with his insights. Uh, and he had
22:44he showed this game he won against
22:47comp which where his explanations was so
22:50fantastic and so surprising to me that I
22:53put it in the introduction also the
22:55example and and said you know for
22:57example this here make sure everyone
22:59paid attention to this great example
23:00which was also later in the review. So
23:03that's good. So there's a position a
23:05moment in the game where Boris said,
23:07"Yeah, so here of course I exchanged
23:10rooks and queens down the line." So he
23:12changed like everything. I was like,
23:14"Stop a moment here." "What do you mean,
23:16of
23:17course?" And uh and uh he said, "No, no,
23:21I have more space, so it's better
23:24without heavy pieces." And and I was
23:26like, "Okay." So he explained, "Yeah, if
23:28you come in behind with heavy pieces
23:30from the opponent, that's counterplay,
23:31but minor pieces can't do them. They
23:33will be restricted." I was like, "Okay,
23:36but uh how how were you planning on
23:38winning?" "No plan." What do you mean no
23:41plan? Oh, many weaknesses. That would be
23:42a
23:44win. You must have had some idea. No,
23:47nothing. Nothing. No, it would be fine.
23:50And for me that was
23:52like the guy who was a move away from
23:56being world
23:57champion. They say no no no you don't
23:59need to have a plan beyond just doing
24:03the right things. Just do the right
24:04things and it will work out right. It's
24:06actually a good life advice as well.
24:08Yeah. Do good things. It will will will
24:11benefit you. Actually that's that's one
24:12of the things uh I think you mentioned
24:14this yesterday in the camp that I I
24:16found so instructive. I remember I
24:18believe you also mentioned it in
24:19thinking inside the box and I remember
24:21just really um it kind of being blown
24:24away by it. I guess you refer to it as
24:26certainty of action versus certainty of
24:28outcome. That's what I Yeah, I came up
24:31with that yesterday. That was yesterday.
24:32Yeah, I just came up with it in the
24:34moment. It's like because um so I'm I'm
24:36slightly ripping off uh something I read
24:39in a book like 20 years ago or or
24:41something where there's we all have sort
24:44of we all want some excitement but we
24:46have things we need to feel certain
24:48about as human beings just to feel feel
24:50good. We need to feel in control of
24:52something for example. Um, and I always
24:56struggle with trying to, you know, I'm a
24:58very dynamic player. So, I had a mental
25:01problem with sacrificing and being in
25:04control. These two things don't go well
25:06together. Unless you realize that I'm in
25:09control of my actions. I'm doing the
25:11right thing. That's what I'm
25:14controlling. Not controlling the board.
25:17I'm accepting it. You know, it's it's
25:19like being a racing driver or something.
25:21the car is not totally out of your
25:24control, but you know, some things, you
25:25know, is a you're in this machine that's
25:27been rebuilt for every race and there's
25:30a lot of things out of your control. You
25:31have to trust other people and so on.
25:33And and we actually normally uh
25:36generally we we sort of accept it like
25:38we all of us when we take a flight, we
25:40trust the people build the plane, air
25:43traffic control, the pilot and
25:44everything. And then whenever it shakes,
25:46we're holding on. At least I am holding
25:48on to the seat and thinking, I'm not
25:50sure I trust these guys. But but in
25:52general, we we sort of have to live with
25:55a practical trust. And I think for a
25:58chess player, so if you trust the the
26:00actions, I'm doing the right
26:03things.
26:04Um there's another uh little story here
26:08which uh I hope hope will be forgiven
26:10for sharing. So uh there was a student
26:12of mine uh who's called Sam Shankland uh
26:17who at some point he was having a sort
26:19of crisis of faith. He was rated 2670
26:23and he had been for a while. I'd noticed
26:25there was a pattern with him that he
26:27sort of had jumps every second year in
26:29his performance. So we started working
26:32in 2013, 2014 had a big jump, won a gold
26:34medal in the in Norway and ended dudes
26:38podcast career with a with a loss for
26:40her. Um and watched some tournaments and
26:43then 2015 was nothing special. In 2016
26:45again he made a jump and he was like 26
26:4860 70 80 around that area which was at
26:52the time maybe 70 in the world. And then
26:54he was stuck again for a while. And in
26:572017, he called me at some point and had
27:00this, you know, crisis of faith. And do
27:02you do you think it's me? Can't I do
27:05it? And
27:08well, you you you know me, I'm not an
27:11overly confident person. I say what I
27:13think, but I I I I hope I I don't come
27:17across as as as arrogant. I say what I
27:19think, and then I'm open for discussion.
27:21And I never really I don't never feel
27:24100% confident in in a lot of things. Um
27:28I do feel sort of over over years I felt
27:31confident in I do my best and that's
27:34good enough for being a decent human
27:36being and and being with other people.
27:39Um but maybe beyond that I I'm not a
27:41very confident person.
27:43Um and so I understood Sam's situation
27:46there and all I could say to him is like
27:50the process has always worked.
27:53We had, you know, with Gelland, uh, he
27:56went from being, you know, clearly a top
27:59player, but never really making to
28:01highest level to winning the the World
28:03Cup and the candidates and being, you
28:06know, winning, I think it's something
28:07like uh he had to win 11 matches to make
28:10it to the World Championship or
28:11something and then drawing the World
28:13Championship and then losing the
28:14playoff, which is a story of its own.
28:18um through work, focused work,
28:22not through brilliance or anything. The
28:23guy was uh already bored, you know,
28:26like and and in his 40s, but but simply
28:29by systematic work and it has worked
28:31with with many other things, many other
28:33students. And I said to me, do you
28:36believe we're doing the right
28:38things? I said, yes, I do. I said, well,
28:42that's enough. We're doing the right
28:44things. We'll keep doing it. will keep
28:46the faith and it will happen. And then
28:50in 2018 he won the US championship, the
28:52strongest ever in front of number two,
28:55four and six in the world. Uh they had
28:58actually made the championship jacket in
29:01advance. So uh for Kawana because Kawana
29:05was on fire. He had started the
29:07candidate seated fifth but by the time
29:09of the tournament he was already rated
29:11number two in the world and he would
29:12have won normally with that score. He
29:15almost lost to Sam but but solid a draw
29:17in that game but it was normally a
29:19winning score but Sam just killed
29:21everything and everyone won that
29:23tournament. Then he won uh Capablanca
29:26Open or was Memorial uh six player
29:28double round 10 rounds I think with like
29:30a one or one and a half point margin and
29:33then he went to win the the Pan-Amean
29:36Championship in uh Paraguay or
29:40something. Um and suddenly he was number
29:4221 in the
29:44world and you know the crisis of faith
29:47was over.
29:50Um and it's just just believe in the
29:53process, believe in things and believe
29:55you're doing the right things. And when
29:58it comes to positional play, I think a
30:00lot of us has a feeling problem like an
30:02intuitive
30:03lacking. I have the two bishops. How
30:06would that how will I be sure that works
30:08in the endame? Well, and if you want to
30:11study two bishops, you know, you can go
30:13into chess base, you search for
30:15positions, say 0 to eight pawns, uh, one
30:19side, two bishops, other side bishop and
30:21knight, for example, two knights. And
30:23then you can, uh, search for for games.
30:26And there's some box also with duration.
30:28So like we want at least let's say 15
30:30moves with this piece configuration. You
30:32can go in and search there and you can
30:34find a lot of examples. You can play
30:37through and you can sort of get this uh
30:38more vis visual intu intuitive feeling.
30:42You maybe analyze the games. You can use
30:43an engine. You can decide if you want to
30:45go really deep to understand when and
30:48when not two bishops are are great.
30:51Should I do a sales pitch? We have a
30:52book coming. We have a book coming by
30:54Saris Lakala. It's called the exploiting
30:57uh I think exploiting the two bishops.
31:00Maybe something like this. There's a
31:02little trilogy. They all come at the
31:04same time uh in the autumn uh for
31:07popular chess. Uh so exploiting
31:10weaknesses, exploiting two bishops and
31:13exploiting space advantage. Uh so you
31:16know if you want to understand some
31:18positional concepts there will be three
31:20three available there available from
31:22Amazon and any uh any decent uh bookshop
31:26and if your bookshop local bookshop
31:27doesn't carry the books it's not decent.
31:31Um yeah, there's many good books out
31:33there. Um yeah, I just want to You have
31:35a reading list somewhere, I think. Yes.
31:37Yeah, we have a list on the dojo site um
31:40with Yeah, lots of great books. I mean
31:43that there's no I think there's no
31:44shortage of good good chess books. Um I
31:47just I really love the certainty of
31:49action thing because it applies to
31:51decisions you make on the chess board,
31:53like knowing you're doing the right
31:55thing without knowing how you'll follow
31:57up. But it also applies to stuff you're
31:59doing outside the chessboard like in
32:01your training because a lot of people
32:02they often they often have gripes like
32:05they know they're supposed to read books
32:06but then they have this thing in their
32:07mind like oh I don't know exactly like
32:09what I'm getting out of this like how is
32:11this going to concretely help me and I
32:13just find like that's so useful. It's
32:16like your certainty is that you're doing
32:17the right thing and then it's like if
32:19you feel like you're doing good work you
32:21will improve. Like you don't have to
32:23worry about exactly like how you're
32:25improving or like how much how quickly.
32:27It's like just do good training and then
32:30eventually it will come. Yeah. So
32:32there's three small points I want to
32:34make to this. First of all, there's this
32:36crisis of faith thing. I I just told you
32:38like you world class players have it.
32:40Yeah. So that's the first thing. The
32:42second thing is and this is sort of my
32:44own experience of one of the important
32:46things for uh uh for me in in in when
32:50I'm a trainer which which is not what I
32:52do all the time but when I'm in the role
32:53of being a trainer is giving people the
32:57confidence and you're being this
32:59supportive person as well there's a
33:01little bit of a mentor role um where
33:04you're like this
33:06just this always works it just takes
33:10time
33:12works. You know, we cannot promise
33:13everyone that there will be the new
33:14Abdura, Shanglin, Gelan, Brunello, uh,
33:19Subnowski, whatever, uh, I can mention
33:22of of people I've worked with.
33:24Um, but there will be real improvement
33:28and and it is normally
33:32lasting and a little bit, let's quote
33:34the great philosopher N. Gallagher, you
33:38can have it all, but how much do you
33:39want it? Um so that there there there
33:42are these uh two point and I had a third
33:45one which was really great and
33:47unfortunately the old age set in uh very
33:51very uh recently and uh the third point
33:54here that uh will probably be
33:55rediscovered later in the conversation.
33:58Um but yeah I I think uh for people in
34:03general it's like uh don't don't expect
34:07too much too soon. Don't be feeling you
34:11have this incredible rush to have
34:14outcomes. This method of of working has
34:18been done for a long time now. Not
34:21everything works equally well with
34:23everyone. If if something is recommended
34:26and it's for you personally is torture,
34:29find another way of learning. Don't
34:31inflict unnecessary pain. We can talk
34:34about micro pain at another point if you
34:36want. uh which is important little term
34:39but but yeah I know certainty of uh of
34:42action that I'm doing the best I can at
34:45this moment which is I think is uh much
34:48better than
34:49uh I'm doing the right thing. I'm doing
34:52the thing I think is right at the moment
34:55and
34:57sometimes people are not doing what they
34:59think is the right thing but they're
35:01avoiding doing what they know is the
35:03right thing. So
35:04um uh yeah I eat too much maybe that it
35:11feels right at the moment but uh down
35:13the line should maybe watch out. Um okay
35:16we had some questions from uh Twitter. I
35:19picked the best ones
35:21got some here. Um the first one was
35:25um how much should uh adult improvers
35:28play over the board chess in a in a
35:31given year?
35:34again you know like it it's very
35:36beneficial to play and then to really
35:39reflect upon your games uh you know if
35:43you try to have a learn a few lessons
35:45from every game when I was an IM and I
35:47was trying to come to GM which took a
35:48very long time um 10 years I think from
35:51memory uh I I would often write down
35:54like three things I learned from a game
35:56after analyzing it and I thought that
35:59was very useful and some sort of
36:00reflections on the
36:03Uh games are fantastic training sessions
36:06because you really care, you're really
36:08motivated hopefully, otherwise it's it's
36:11hard.
36:13Um but the you know there are people who
36:15improve just playing occasional league
36:18games. I know US leagues is not really
36:20the same as in Europe. Um but like for
36:24example the Danish league we played over
36:25six weekends, nine rounds. Uh and that
36:30was yeah that was a huge part of my
36:33games the last uh last half year. Uh and
36:36and and the people where they yeah they
36:38they're casual players they care they do
36:41do frequent training but they have
36:43obligations. They have family they have
36:45uh other other things they want to do.
36:50So, I think I would focus on getting as
36:54much out of playing as possible. Mhm.
36:56When you're there, don't sort of uh eat
37:01lots of carbs before that makes your
37:03brain fog. Don't uh don't go to bed 2:00
37:07the night before playing death blitzed.
37:10Uh listen death metal and uh you know,
37:12and then go and play at 9:00 in the
37:14morning.
37:17Um, I really think that's more
37:20important. Um,
37:22if you could put a number on it, I know
37:24Bud Vinick said something like 50 games
37:26a year is like a good number. Maybe a
37:28little more, a little less. Well, again,
37:30it's very different characters. Mhm. Uh,
37:32there are people who play really a lot
37:34and they sort of keep the motivation
37:36going and and excited all the time and
37:39that's great. And then there's someone
37:42like me who probably it's better to to
37:45play not so often but play a little bit
37:48in in you know like few events few
37:52things uh in a row. Uh so I will go like
37:55maybe half a year with not playing at
37:56all and then I'll try to play a few
37:59things in a row. So if I'm playing
38:01something that I think is important for
38:03me, I might go and try find a weekend
38:05tournament or rapid tournament and and
38:07and you know get some dust. the off the
38:11shelves and so on.
38:15Um the reason why I resist a
38:18number is because uh we are absent of
38:22the the $5 million funded study from uh
38:27from Harvard uh coming with a real
38:30advice. What we have is we have an
38:33experience of people being wildly
38:35different, reacting wildly different to
38:39everything.
38:40Um, and for some people when you start
38:43to put these numbers on them,
38:46uh, you you you just get
38:48stress like this is this is a simple
38:51thing. If something is giving you stress
38:56unnecessarily, it's wrong. like we again
39:00I just want to explain my my idea of
39:02microp pain here. So it's it's a very
39:04uncontroversial thing. So essentially
39:06you know that you know you you go
39:09to a chiropractor after hurting your
39:12back and so on. I had a when I was in
39:14San Francisco last year I had a Uber
39:16driver who fell asleep and uh had a the
39:19world's smallest crash but I still have
39:21some back pain from it. But I go to the
39:23chiropractor and they're like when I do
39:25this
39:26uh what is it? It's a two when I do this
39:30what it hurts it's a seven you know and
39:34uh then when we come down to below one
39:38but it's not zero this is what I call
39:41microp pain so we all have this feeling
39:43of like being tired and it feels
39:45uncomfortable in our body that's a good
39:48example of microp pain now another way
39:51of microprain is
39:53frustration and there's healthy
39:56frustration there's unhealthy
39:57frustration
39:58Like here earlier, someone had misplaced
40:01a a chess block and they were looking
40:04right around to find out where it was.
40:07That's let's say that's negative
40:08frustration because it has no no point.
40:11But if you're trying to do something you
40:14cannot do
40:15already, you have to sort of push
40:18yourself a little bit. Now we're all
40:21comfortable animals. Most of us in a way
40:2499 point high number. We want to do
40:28things that are comfortable. You know,
40:30most of us uh quite happy to sit down
40:33and watch a sport we don't understand,
40:35but we're quite reluctant to go and do a
40:37sport we can't do. Very simple thing. Um
40:42but to get better at something, you have
40:44to try to do something you can't already
40:46do. So you have to go through a process
40:48that's
40:49frustrating and sometimes with like for
40:53example this camp here with some people
40:55they were not really getting it
40:58instantly and they were maybe expecting
41:00it to be different explanations than we
41:03were given. They were already had some
41:05preconception of things working
41:07differently.
41:09There was uh you remember there was one
41:12uh one argument with another guy who
41:15constantly wanted to turn things into
41:17short-term things. Mhm. And and this
41:20idea of the long-term thing, he wasn't
41:22open to it. And we can play chess in
41:25many ways. It's fine. Uh I didn't have a
41:27problem with taking the discussion. I
41:29think the discussions helps everyone to
41:31to clarify how they view it and everyone
41:34ends up thinking about chess slightly
41:35differently and it's great. uh it's not
41:38meant as a criticism, but sometimes
41:40there's this frustration with being
41:42challenged or let's say we're solving
41:45problems, puzzles, uh something like
41:47that, which is a really good way to
41:49improve because chess's a practical
41:51game. You need to make decisions and
41:53practicing making decisions is is the
41:56gateway to to become really good.
41:59um when you when they're just outside
42:02your range, it feels like I should be
42:04able to solve it and and I'm not getting
42:07it. And there's a little level of
42:09frustration there. That's what I call
42:11micro pain. And I think micro pain is a
42:14is a useful
42:16word
42:18because if you have this feeling of
42:20frustration, most people are like
42:22there's something wrong. Mhm. But on the
42:25contrary, that's that's the feeling of
42:27doing the right thing. Now, uh I'm very
42:31good. I'm very good at being in the gym,
42:33but I'm very bad at going to the gym.
42:34Whenever I go to the gym, I'm I'm great,
42:36you know. I I do do the stuff there and
42:38so on. And I'm I'm I'm very good at
42:40working out. Uh very good I give give
42:43everything. And it hurts. And then I go
42:47home afterwards and the next day it
42:48hurts. And the reason why it hurts is
42:51because there's little tears, micro
42:52tears in the muscles and then they build
42:54back stronger. And that's the point of
42:56of lifting and that's how how you how
42:58you get stronger. And in chess to some
43:01extent it's the same thing. Mhm. This
43:04micro pain, this frustration with heart
43:07that is you pushing your boundaries
43:09trying to move them. And there are
43:11people who go to the gym after a while
43:14and they list and they lift and they
43:16list and they don't improve compared to
43:19the previous week and they don't improve
43:21compared to the previous week and then
43:23they take
43:24steroids which you know I'm not really
43:27recommending taking your phone to the
43:29bathroom or something like that but if
43:31you want to break through this barrier
43:33at some point uh you maybe try to switch
43:35things up and so on but some of it is
43:37also just the reckonable uh metaphor for
43:41it has to hit enough times. It has to
43:44you had to come to the moment where like
43:46for us mentally it clicks and it's like
43:50I actually see different now than I did
43:52three months ago even though I haven't
43:54felt the change because change at some
43:56point would be quite in small and
43:58incremental and and this I think for
44:02improvement understanding micro pain and
44:06looking for it I think is incredibly
44:08important doesn't mean that all
44:10improvement has to be painful um but
44:13Sometimes it is. And what happens with a
44:16lot of people is the frustration for
44:19them is now it's wrong. Right?
44:22But that's not the case. Actually the
44:25frustration is everything that was sort
44:28of easy in this direction. you done that
44:32you know now it's it's time to do the
44:37uh the the difficult thing which is so
44:40for example in in chess it's a very
44:42common uh view here that I'm saying and
44:45uh people can disagree with me if they
44:47do but let's just believe the metaphor
44:49here for now that uh talent is whatever
44:52comes easy to you and then after that is
44:54work and um there's a very talented
44:59English grandmaster to call Luke Machame
45:02where he himself said, "Yeah, you know,
45:04like it was really easy until
45:062600 and John Shaw said, "Yeah, I share
45:09his experience, but it was until 1900
45:12and then the after that everything was
45:14just blood, sweat, and tears." And John
45:17made it to grandmaster uh at I don't
45:21know he was 1900 at age 19, I think.
45:24Wow. And then uh he became grandmaster
45:27maybe late 30s, maybe he was even even
45:3040. Mhm. Uh I would have to think back.
45:33I don't think no one cares. But but but
45:35but and it happened for a lot of people
45:37actually like
45:39uh at some point they had to really do
45:43something to not maybe gain such a a
45:45great extra. Well, Reier also made GM
45:48much later, right? Yeah. Re is uh Rene
45:51is I think 42 and he became a
45:53grandmaster last year at uh thinking if
45:57it was even in this event here where we
46:00are but is it really just a year ago and
46:04his story was one of great frustration
46:06because he had made three GM norms and
46:10his federation sent them into feeder. He
46:12had been past 2500 and we're talking
46:14maybe a decade
46:16ago and two of the norms were rejected.
46:19So there
46:21was they probably shouldn't have sent
46:23them in to be honest. Uh but I don't
46:26know the details that well but it was
46:28like minor things like I think like one
46:30of them was he was awarded the
46:32grandmaster title the day after the game
46:34by feeder. So he wasn't a
46:37GM like like literally like a day is
46:40different. Oh, one of his opponents. So,
46:42so yeah. So, you to those who don't
46:44really know how the thing works. So, you
46:46you get three grandmaster norms which uh
46:48you can look up the performance rating
46:50of 2601 or more. You have to play a
46:53certain number of of grand masters, at
46:54least three. And uh and Reneer had the
46:592601 performant or higher. And one of
47:02his opponents was then given the the
47:05Grandmaster title of the stamp, the
47:08final approval, sort of like your uh
47:10your your driver's license finally
47:13arriving in the mail a day after the
47:15game, but his results making him a
47:18grandmaster were 6 months in the pass.
47:21So it's, you know, if you can spell the
47:24technicality, that's it. And when he got
47:28two norms canled and he gave up. He
47:31literally gave up. He made another
47:33grandmaster norm at some point in some
47:36tournament playing casually but he just
47:37gave up. And he was making draws
47:41whenever he would had a nice position
47:42against a strong player. He would offer
47:44draw. They would often take it because
47:45they knew he was a good player. He was
47:48just around 2500 for a long time.
47:50Clearly grandmaster
47:52level. Just gave up. didn't try. So we
47:57we you cannot make a super result if you
47:59make a lot of
48:01drawings. So he was never close. So uh
48:05we were doing the academy together. He's
48:06been from apart from the beginning in
48:10January
48:122020. At some point we were sort of
48:14Kalia, my my partner and
48:17I we're pushing him and we also got his
48:20his wife to start pushing him. It's like
48:22come on.
48:23you. It's like, you know, you go to
48:26university, you didn't write your
48:27thesis, get it done, get your degree,
48:29get your
48:30certification. Uh, get your title. Don't
48:33be someone who who never got around to
48:35doing
48:36it. I think it was like two years of
48:39getting to him because I was it it was
48:41really a wound. Uh, and uh he he done
48:46some podcast that people can look up
48:48like he did perpetual perpetual. Yeah,
48:50perpetual chess. uh where where he
48:53explained like how mentally the shift
48:57was was probably more it and go out and
48:59play some tournaments and fail and then
49:01another tournament and fail again. And
49:03he you know we talked about said yeah I
49:06think it will take 10 tournaments. I
49:08think it took maybe five or something
49:10for him to to make the GMO. But he was
49:12also lucky. Like he was really lucky to
49:15make it. And that's a part of it. But if
49:17you're not risking, you're not not
49:20lucky.
49:21But you know, some people were
49:23disappointed hearing his story because
49:25it's like he was already a good player
49:2720 years ago. And they were like, "Oh,
49:29but he wasn't 1900." We have those
49:31stories also. Um, but how many wants to
49:36live with their parents until they're
49:3849? Uh, which John did in the beginning
49:41because he was playing Tess and in the
49:43later part of the time because his
49:45parents were getting old uh and he sort
49:49of wanted to look after them.
49:51Uh,
49:53so you know I think uh like your
49:56grandmaster title is as you also know is
49:59a it's a huge sacrifice. It's a it's
50:02very difficult to get to and yeah, but
50:05if you're willing to pay uh you will get
50:08there. Okay. I'll have more questions on
50:10that later. Uh I want to ask going back
50:12to playing OTB after someone plays a
50:15tournament or or a league game. Um
50:18what's your recommended process for
50:21analyzing at what point should they turn
50:23the computer on? Okay, so first of all,
50:27everyone should do what really works for
50:29them. So again, it's trial and error.
50:31Something doesn't work for them, it's
50:32just an advice. It's a, you know, I
50:34don't like rules in chess. I like
50:36concepts and ideas and and so so that's
50:39the first first thing I want to say.
50:41It's like find something that works for
50:42you. And if it works for you, great. And
50:45and working for you is where you're
50:47challenged in learning. It's not where
50:49it's easy and and and effortless. Um, so
50:53what I prefer is,
50:57uh, in Europe we normally play one game
50:59a day. So we have the chance to sit and
51:02talk to the opponent after the game.
51:04Sometimes it's just standing and, you
51:06know, in a corridor for a few minutes
51:08and and share a few thoughts about the
51:09game. Yeah. But but I like frequently to
51:12sit down and look, move the pieces and
51:14talk about uh the thought process of the
51:17opponent and my own and I think that's
51:20very valuable. Uh some people like to do
51:23it, some people don't. So if you you
51:26like me seek it, uh you'll have a 50/50
51:29uh rate, I think. Um in Denmark, we
51:33we're very used to doing so. I play a
51:35lot league games there. So So we do it a
51:37lot.
51:40Um that's that's sort of my first thing.
51:43This the second thing is uh putting the
51:45game into less or chess base or whatever
51:48software you're using.
51:51um put it in without the engine being
51:53turned on. So you put in everything
51:55you've seen so you have sort of your
51:58narrative is
52:00there and then I would put on the engine
52:04and go through things and then is really
52:07important not to say oh the engine says
52:10I should go here here but to sort of
52:12have like why does this work? Could I
52:15have found this? Is this something that
52:17will will help my understanding of uh of
52:21the game and the the thought process? Uh
52:24and try to make these kind of
52:28discoveries and try to see if you can
52:30simplify the knowledge like we were
52:32talking about this knight d4 bishop g7
52:34moment from your game.
52:37um where any any kind of improving your
52:40your thought process and anytime this
52:43kind of reflection I think is is very
52:45valuable and uh doing that in general
52:48makes you better in light I found. So
52:53the idea of finding out I did this, I
52:56believe
52:57this, this is the feedback I get in form
53:00of uh you know results. Uh I lost this
53:06game, I won this game, these people
53:08liked me, these people didn't like me.
53:10Do I want to change something or was I
53:14unlucky? Instead of saying these people
53:16are my opponent probably
53:19cheated. Whatever. I'm unlucky. Uh chess
53:23doesn't really have luck so much. That's
53:25a little bit, but uh it's something like
53:28uh what what one of the most extreme
53:30example of it was someone who prepared
53:35um Wild Gambit. Um but uh uh never
53:40played it before and prepared to play
53:42with a grandmaster. Played it. The
53:45grandmaster immediately, you know,
53:46played a long theoretical reputation.
53:49sort of got a better position and
53:51crushed crossed the guy. And then after
53:52the game, the grandmother said, "Yeah,
53:54well, you always play this." He said,
53:56"No, I never played it before." "No, I'm
53:57sure. I saw in the database." The guy
54:00comes home and he sees there's another
54:02guy with the same first initial, same
54:04surname who played
54:06this this crappy line all the time. So,
54:10the opponent had had prepared for it.
54:12This is bad luck. This this is
54:14definitely bad luck. And there are other
54:16kinds of bad luck in chess, but it's
54:18normally very obvious, right? Um, but if
54:22you sort of say what was within my
54:24control, like don't play bad openings or
54:28I took a risk and I'm actually okay with
54:32with having taken the risk because the
54:35point is if you take a risk then you
54:37accept that it can go wrong.
54:40Um, so that's a thing. there's there's
54:43other things that you sort of can uh
54:46reflect over that sort of can come to
54:48you for because I I had a period where I
54:50was too afraid of losing and when you're
54:53afraid of losing you're not going to you
54:56know take risks that will give you a
54:57chance of doing something great also and
54:59there was like the story is you know
55:02it's too painful to to lose so it's
55:04easier to make draw right um so that
55:07that's a good uh and it's not just about
55:09taking draws it's also about what move
55:10should you choose during the game um and
55:13there trusting the the action rather
55:16than than than feeling certainty of
55:18outcome
55:20uh I think it would be very useful for
55:22for many people but otherwise I think
55:24people have all their their own things
55:27but but but I think having a reflective
55:29process on games is very valuable it
55:33doesn't have to happen during the
55:35tournament if you have a coach if you're
55:37French look at the games with before you
55:39turn on the engine that's normally Don't
55:41let the coach turn on the engine and sit
55:43there and pretending he knows
55:45everything. Uh much rather see that the
55:48the times where you didn't know what to
55:50do. He also didn't know what to do,
55:52right? Um I have to admit I I did of
55:56course look at your games with the
55:57engine. Um but trust me, I'm a
56:00professional.
56:03Okay. Um next question from Twitter. Um
56:06pretty common one. Um, well, when
56:10working on tactics and
56:13calculation, how much, and I know you're
56:15going to say it's different for
56:16everyone, but I still want to hear your
56:17answer. How much should people um focus
56:21on the simpler stuff, basic tactics,
56:23pattern recognition versus more
56:26difficult calculation exercises where
56:28maybe they sit at the board for 15
56:30minutes and still don't don't find
56:31anything. So, what should be the
56:32breakdown between the simple stuff and
56:35the the hard stuff? Well, first of all,
56:37it's different for everyone.
56:41Yeah. Okay. So,
56:43uh let let's uh let's just define the
56:46two things. So, first of all, tactics.
56:49This is a characteristic patterns of
56:52short-term operations
56:54uh where there will often be a a massive
56:58change in the position. Not necessarily
57:00winning or losing material, but this
57:02happens often. Sometimes it with attack
57:04on the king. There's also what is a
57:06combination compared to a tactic. So a
57:08combination is a tactical operation that
57:10includes a sacrifice. Oh, okay. That's
57:13Yeah. Yeah. I some someone told me that
57:16I was already almost a GM before I um
57:20like I don't know know the names of all
57:22the combination types. I look them up
57:24just like everyone else.
57:25Uh
57:27uh so so that's tactics
57:31calculation and uh I normally ask people
57:34what do you think calculation is and I'm
57:35going to ask you again what do you think
57:36calculation is? Well okay I I like your
57:40definition which is I've always I don't
57:42know related to it calculation uh is
57:46um looking for moves or ideas that you
57:50don't automatically see. Yeah. So, so,
57:52so, so let me just use a moment to
57:54explain this uh how I think it. So, so
57:56if you think of of the chessboard as a
57:59magic mirror, you look at it and there's
58:02simply all this chess that comes at you
58:04and the more chess you have consumed,
58:06the more chess the magic mirror will
58:08will will give to you and you look at a
58:11position and things just come to you for
58:13free. It's like it's fantastic. That's
58:16what we call intuition, which is a
58:17pattern uh recognition uh pattern
58:20completion process. Uh there's only one
58:24problem with this. The chessboard is not
58:26a magic mirror. Actually, it's a
58:28construction of entirely its own rules
58:31and reality and doesn't really care
58:34about how the human brain is created. We
58:36created the board but uh and the rules
58:39but they govern uh by their own uh these
58:44creates their own universe let's
58:46say and reality is that the chess we
58:49have consumed is not necessarily chess
58:51that's right in front of us or the best
58:54chess that we have the ability to play
58:56in position but because we have consumed
58:58a lot of chess we able to recognize a
59:00lot of things so the stronger you get
59:02the more things you can recognize that's
59:04what symbols about grandmaster
59:06recognizes a lot of things and the the
59:08hand is making the moves uh if done
59:10right.
59:13Um and if you take a calculation this is
59:18the process of trying to find something
59:21that doesn't come for free seeing the
59:23things that don't automatically see.
59:24People will normally say, "Oh, it's
59:26variations in your head and so on." And
59:29there's nothing wrong with that
59:31definition, but I don't find it helpful
59:33for me to find out what I should be
59:35doing. And I I train calculation a lot
59:40and sort of uh I have a like a
59:42three-step process here. Uh and this
59:46seems going to seem like the most
59:47childish thing you have ever heard, but
59:48uh teaching it to very strong
59:50grandmasters helped improve their play.
59:52Find the
59:54options. Analyze your options. Think
59:56about the options. Whatever you want to
59:58call it, play the one you like the
1:00:01best. That sounds like something you
1:00:04learn in the first grade, right? Yes.
1:00:06Yes. But but reality, what happened to
1:00:08us as human being is we will see an idea
1:00:11and we get this feeling of being a
1:00:14genius. I saw this amazing idea and then
1:00:18you try to make it work in five
1:00:19different ways while the right process
1:00:22sort of the and here I define the right
1:00:24process with the one that most often
1:00:26will give you the best results which is
1:00:28what we we all hoping for uh is the one
1:00:32that gives you more things to choose
1:00:34from rather than you choose to start
1:00:37with and then you're thinking about how
1:00:39to prove that your initial impression is
1:00:43uh is right or your early impression
1:00:45let's say um so this this thing of
1:00:49actually finding a lot of
1:00:51options is really important there's
1:00:53another thing about calculation which uh
1:00:55I always try to bring up which is even
1:00:58very strong players when you have
1:01:00complicated positions and you have a
1:01:02number of options on every move in a
1:01:04variation when you come out to like
1:01:05three moves
1:01:07deep it's just this big spiderweb of
1:01:10options they don't they can't see it
1:01:12can't be done often they have have a
1:01:14very good feeling of this is makes sense
1:01:17and this doesn't make sense right
1:01:18direction wrong
1:01:20direction but unless the lines are very
1:01:23narrow calculating long variation
1:01:25doesn't happen Ken doesn't do it doesn't
1:01:29do it
1:01:31uh sometimes as the lines are sort of
1:01:33very uh very straight uh they can be
1:01:36calculated and and then then a player
1:01:38can go very very deep but it's like it's
1:01:40almost like only one option on every
1:01:42move Um remember Alakine in in one of
1:01:46his book has something like that he
1:01:47calculated 19 move line there was a game
1:01:50guest won with black against fan forest
1:01:54in uh if I can say this this year
1:01:56there's there's a great little clip on
1:01:58on YouTube where he's interviewed after
1:02:00the game and he gives this uh long
1:02:02variation
1:02:04um and uh should be said that early in
1:02:07the game he sort of like had a one move
1:02:09mistake. So uh so so both things can
1:02:13happen to to a strong player but that
1:02:15was that was the the aberration. It is
1:02:17not normal and nobody's going to be able
1:02:20to do it and don't expect of yourself
1:02:21but try to be able to find
1:02:24options sort of see what happens. Uh and
1:02:28a good way of option is it's not a move
1:02:31it's an
1:02:32idea. So in Russian the word is
1:02:36candidates and it sort of came into the
1:02:38English language but it's a weird word
1:02:40for the English language. I don't really
1:02:42think it uh it works as well for us.
1:02:46Ideas and options are are much more
1:02:48natural words. Mhm.
1:02:50Um and I normally say an idea is at
1:02:54least uh three half moves long. My move,
1:02:56your move, my move, some sort of
1:02:58direction. And normally when students
1:03:00says oh I want to play this like no no
1:03:03no give me a little more what direction
1:03:06oh I don't know okay it's check I can
1:03:08only go one place you you cannot have a
1:03:11you know not have the next move and
1:03:13think that this is a a serious uh
1:03:15serious option you you sort of try to
1:03:18develop options and for me when I
1:03:19calculate and and what I try to get my
1:03:22my students to do when they calculate is
1:03:25to
1:03:27um to slow down and actually try to find
1:03:29options that doesn't come
1:03:32quickly. And we all know that when we
1:03:34look at a chess board and we see maybe
1:03:35two options to find a third option
1:03:38suddenly can be really really difficult
1:03:40something that makes
1:03:42sense and trading doing
1:03:45that is when you are doing calculation
1:03:49training with tactics is the whole game.
1:03:52It's finding the ideas and then usually
1:03:55things just work out and then you sort
1:03:57of recognize oh it works because bop I
1:03:59did u before I started working with
1:04:01Boris so we were playing a rapid
1:04:03tournament in Italy and I gave him this
1:04:07uh puzzle uh which was a move 30 from my
1:04:10game with Jonathan Rousen in the 2007
1:04:13uh British championship which is what's
1:04:15on the front page of one of the chapters
1:04:17in thinking inside the
1:04:19box and I gave him this puzzle and And
1:04:22he's thought for like half an hour and
1:04:24then organizers come and say okay
1:04:26everyone we need to go to dinner and
1:04:28we're having dinner and we had
1:04:31starters primo and kundi is Italy and
1:04:34then the dessert comes and then sometime
1:04:36boy says to me come tell me I can't
1:04:40solve it I'm like what are you still
1:04:43thinking this is like an hour and a half
1:04:45later and I said whatever the move was I
1:04:50the first move right yeah Yeah, whatever
1:04:52the move. And then he said, "Oh, yeah,
1:04:53of course." And then everything just
1:04:56fell into place for him. It's not like
1:04:58he hadn't seen the first move, but the
1:05:00moment he knew it was the right
1:05:04direction, other things sort of fell
1:05:06into place. Uh, which was quite a
1:05:09remarkable thing to see. He's a very
1:05:12remarkable man uh as you will know.
1:05:15Um and I think for for many if there's
1:05:19studying
1:05:20tactics sort of uh as
1:05:23calculation um which I would put at if
1:05:27you get 1,800 level maybe do it up to
1:05:3250%. But at least try to do it like 20%.
1:05:35So like 20 to
1:05:3750%. Um so 20 to 50% of the times of the
1:05:41time you you're doing tactics. do do
1:05:44harder taxes where you're trying to
1:05:46solve
1:05:48um uh up to 1,800 when we get to your
1:05:52level which is 23 2400 I think 50% is
1:05:55sort of the minimum but maybe the
1:05:57maximum is only like 70% or something um
1:06:01as far less than you would think and
1:06:04don't try to have extremely difficult
1:06:06ones necessarily when it comes to you
1:06:07but we're still on 1800 here try to have
1:06:11you some of the time where you are
1:06:12training your thought process to go a
1:06:14bit deeper
1:06:16uh and and and try to find more options
1:06:18and try to really go deep and when you
1:06:21find other options try to sort of work
1:06:23them out and a lot of the time you'll
1:06:26find micropig frustration and so on
1:06:28because it will be beyond you u there
1:06:31are many great puzzle books uh uh per
1:06:34personally uh I like the woodpecker it
1:06:37paid for my car
1:06:41um So um but but there there there
1:06:45really many great possible books and if
1:06:47you already have one on the shelf that's
1:06:48a great start. I'm a book publisher. I
1:06:50literally live from people buying more
1:06:53books. Reading them doesn't do anything
1:06:55for me. But my advice as a as a human
1:06:58being and and fellow chess player is if
1:07:00you have something on the shelves is
1:07:02probably already good. Um if you want
1:07:04something better uh you go to new
1:07:07chess.com. Um we we can always uh always
1:07:10help you out. Uh but but but yeah, most
1:07:15things will be fine. I don't like
1:07:17computer generators uh puzzles so much
1:07:19because first of all, you you move and
1:07:21it moves back, right? That's sort of
1:07:24like try to work everything out from
1:07:26from the start to the end and then also
1:07:29the computerenerated one. So if if you
1:07:31like chessible, chess
1:07:34tempo, some other interactive
1:07:37uh format, I I have no problem with
1:07:38that. like uh a lot of people like to
1:07:40work on screen. I I like to read books
1:07:43on my iPad. I'm I'm not a a
1:07:46Puritan. Um
1:07:48but you know, work with a board if you
1:07:51can because that's what you're going to
1:07:52play with in a tournament. And please
1:07:55try to work things out to the end. Don't
1:07:57do this where you make a move where
1:07:58you're just guessing and it comes to
1:08:00something if you're trying to to
1:08:02calculate. On the other hand, if you
1:08:06are, let's say, below
1:08:082,000, one of the things you you need is
1:08:10you need a mass quantity of tactical
1:08:13patterns in your mind and many times so
1:08:17they stick so that your uh the thing
1:08:20that come for free, the magic mirror,
1:08:22the things you just see
1:08:25uh expand immensely. It's it's a huge
1:08:27part of chess improvement. Uh also for
1:08:30positional play, uh we're working on
1:08:32material. Don't worry, we'll not let you
1:08:34down. There's not great material out
1:08:36there and there's no no real good
1:08:37computer generated one. Um, but there,
1:08:41uh, I still prefer if you, let's say
1:08:44you're over 1,200, I still prefer, you
1:08:46know, like try to find some easy books.
1:08:49Tactics time, I think there was one
1:08:50which is quite easy. We will do some
1:08:52more. Um, and they're like they cost you
1:08:5630 cents an hour or something. There's
1:08:59there's no money involved in it,
1:09:01but the solutions are higher quality
1:09:04because they're not the best move
1:09:06according to the engine, which might be
1:09:08to give away the queen or play some
1:09:10other stupid move to delay pain while
1:09:13the defense in in in books will be what
1:09:16actually gives you the biggest uh
1:09:18resistance as a human to overcome,
1:09:20right?
1:09:21Um but solving simple tactics one of the
1:09:25important thing and I learned this only
1:09:28a few years ago and uh it was great
1:09:31uh
1:09:33uh eye openener for I learned from a
1:09:36from a very good friend of mine called
1:09:37Robert J. Fisher, but it's not James's
1:09:40middle name. I think it's John. I can't
1:09:43remember. But different guy. Yeah,
1:09:45different
1:09:46guy. But uh but not named after Bobby
1:09:49Fisher. Uh uh but the famous namesake.
1:09:52He's been called a lovely guy from
1:09:54Richmond, Virginia. uh who's also a good
1:09:58chess player that no the the tactics and
1:10:02that was his coach uh who told him no
1:10:04the tactics you have
1:10:05to it's some tactics you have to solve
1:10:07them quickly and the moment he said I
1:10:08was like of
1:10:10course like I I was like I probably sort
1:10:14of had the realization at a preconcious
1:10:17level for decades maybe but the moment
1:10:21he so no I he would he said no no you
1:10:24just have to do it quickly I sort of I I
1:10:26think we I was already saying similar
1:10:28thing like sometimes be careful don't
1:10:30waste too much time as well. No, you
1:10:32should just do it quickly one two
1:10:33minutes. So of course yeah because what
1:10:37you're doing is you're trying to learn
1:10:39to see
1:10:41tactics and then recognize patterns,
1:10:44right? So you you should not spend too
1:10:46much time on that. So having a high
1:10:49error rate if it's if it's 90 or 100
1:10:51it's too much. If it's 40 50 it's it's
1:10:54fine. So either you see it quickly or
1:10:58you don't. That's fine. This means you
1:11:00don't know the pattern yet. But but
1:11:01there's also you will notice here and
1:11:03for for weaker players is not so easy.
1:11:06But there's a different there's an
1:11:09element of uh tactics which is the
1:11:11forcing move which is basically pieces
1:11:14seek seeking
1:11:16confrontation.
1:11:18Um it is me let's say we're black here.
1:11:21is me putting the pawn forward and so
1:11:24everyone can take it and it can take
1:11:26everyone. Uh simply there's some moves
1:11:29that has some tactical feel to them. And
1:11:32part of of becoming good at tactics is
1:11:34developing this
1:11:36feel and part of
1:11:39being good at something the process of
1:11:42being good at something is being bad at
1:11:44it and trying. And uh also I think the
1:11:48process where you sort of are a little
1:11:50more loose in it and not not constantly
1:11:53evaluating yourself which is the worst
1:11:55thing in training like sorry I I should
1:11:57have said this from start. This is
1:11:58number one rule of training. If you're
1:12:01training it's a
1:12:03success. So if you're not
1:12:05training it might be a success for other
1:12:08reasons but it's not a training success.
1:12:10However there's no result in training.
1:12:14You go, you do some training. You have
1:12:15good days, you have bad days. Don't
1:12:18evaluate yourself based on that. It's so
1:12:21many people do it. What do I do if I
1:12:23have a bad day in training? Yeah, you
1:12:25train again the next day. That's it. You
1:12:28show up for training. You show up for
1:12:29for work. Oh, what should I do if I had
1:12:32a bad day? You know, like people in my
1:12:34class, oh, today I did very badly. Okay,
1:12:36next time you'll do
1:12:37better. It's not a competition. It's
1:12:39training. It's just training. like calm
1:12:43down. Anything where you emotionally put
1:12:46on it prevents you from doing it in the
1:12:48future. You don't want to do it because
1:12:49it's emotional reaction. And that's also
1:12:52with simple tactics. If you are with a
1:12:56loose hand, whether it's a book and you
1:12:59look like, "Oh my god, I'm an idiot."
1:13:01And then continue to the next one or
1:13:04um uh it's on a program and the program
1:13:08says you're an idiot. You say, "Well,
1:13:10yeah, it's you have a point." and then
1:13:11you go to the next one. Don't take it
1:13:13personally. Don't evaluate yourself.
1:13:16Don't compare yourself with anything
1:13:17else. Just trust the process. Um
1:13:21certainty of action, right? I'm really
1:13:24going to remember that. I hope uh
1:13:26because I thought that was like a good
1:13:28moment. No, it was uh it was great. But
1:13:30yeah, it's uh it's actually something
1:13:32that's heartbreaking for me because
1:13:33people will have been playing chess for
1:13:35not a very long time, like six months to
1:13:38a year, maybe two years, and and then
1:13:40they feel bad about the rating cuz it's
1:13:42not very high. And it's like, you got to
1:13:43understand, people have been playing for
1:13:44decades and they're at your same rating,
1:13:46right? It's like um yeah, I think uh
1:13:49people definitely have to realize number
1:13:51one, chess is a hard game. Training is
1:13:53hard, but yeah, not every day is going
1:13:57to be a breakthrough. It's like you just
1:13:58have to kind of keep showing up and keep
1:14:00doing it and hopefully you actually
1:14:01enjoy the training so that you don't
1:14:04hate your life. I think that's kind of
1:14:05Do you remember the circle model from
1:14:07thing inside the box? So basically it
1:14:10has four stations, right? So it has uh
1:14:12you do more, you get better, you get
1:14:15better
1:14:16results and you enjoy it more. So that's
1:14:19the four uh in the serpent line. Let's
1:14:21say it's a train line. You can also have
1:14:23it. You could also reverse it. But let's
1:14:25do more and then it just keeps. So, so
1:14:27the thing is this is what everyone does.
1:14:29You start to do more and then you get
1:14:32better and then you get better results
1:14:35and sometimes that climb can feel very
1:14:37uphill and emotionally
1:14:39draining. Um you can you can get on at
1:14:43another stop which is uh you can find
1:14:45ways to enjoy it more.
1:14:48You can start there. Like actually when
1:14:51when you start about doing chest
1:14:52training, people always come to me with
1:14:54this you know very tense questions like
1:14:56how is the most effective way of doing
1:14:58chest training? Well, first of all and
1:15:00and this is uh spoken from experience
1:15:02and with absolutely no scientific
1:15:05studies behind it. Um if you're doing
1:15:08training, you're like 70% effective
1:15:11already probably. Mhm. It might not work
1:15:13short term because something that makes
1:15:15it click comes 5 years later, 10 years
1:15:18later. My realization here with with
1:15:20with with um uh speaking to Bob here for
1:15:25example that it just clicked uh at the
1:15:28right moment or we were talking about
1:15:30positional chess earlier where also some
1:15:32things just clicked for me at certain
1:15:34times where a lot of the elements I
1:15:36already had them ready but the thing
1:15:39that made me see it in in a better way
1:15:42was not there yet. the same time with
1:15:44training. If if you're doing training
1:15:46and you're engaged and this is like you
1:15:48know what deliberate practice is. So
1:15:51it's where you're mentally really
1:15:52engaged and you're focused and you're
1:15:55basically it's micro pain again. Sorry.
1:15:57Um when when you're doing that it will
1:16:01be beneficial at some point. Now there
1:16:03are more effective ways of training and
1:16:05that's much what we've been talked
1:16:07about.
1:16:08One of the key ingredients to effective
1:16:11training is anything that makes you show
1:16:13up again tomorrow. It's it's like how do
1:16:15I go to the
1:16:16gym? Unfortunately, I'm always busy and
1:16:18and I I I get delayed and and and tired.
1:16:24But if you find some ways for for people
1:16:27to for yourself to show up for training
1:16:30and do training and sit there and not
1:16:33wanting to run away even if it's
1:16:37frustrating. That's the training. That's
1:16:40the training. It's like uh for for you
1:16:44know for overweight people you know the
1:16:46number one uh fitness advice is go for a
1:16:50walk. Do whatever you enjoy. Okay. Just
1:16:52just move. Yeah. And you know, people
1:16:55will you can go and talk to any fitness
1:16:58coach you you want. They come to the gym
1:17:00and they're like want to have this big
1:17:02plan and they're like treadmills there.
1:17:06That's it. You need you need a big black
1:17:09uh guy standing like this behind you
1:17:11shouting run. That's that's that's your
1:17:14that's your training program. Um and for
1:17:17a lot of us it's like don't evaluate
1:17:20yourself. Don't be so scared about about
1:17:24everything. Find some processes that
1:17:27seem interesting, some advice. You have
1:17:30a lot of good advice on on your channel
1:17:32and you know I I watch your stuff from
1:17:35time to time when I have a a chance. And
1:17:37uh but otherwise like read my books or
1:17:41the books of of Romesh or the other very
1:17:45smart people out there. Find what you
1:17:47think like yeah this seems interesting.
1:17:49Nah, the sand staff. This is
1:17:51interesting. This this this could work
1:17:52for me. Find something. Try it out. Know
1:17:55that if you're there, if you're engaged,
1:17:59you're training. If you're training,
1:18:01it's a
1:18:02success. You
1:18:05can do this one at the end. I love it. I
1:18:08did training. It will work eventually.
1:18:12And everyone has a crisis of fate. Trust
1:18:15trust the process. And uh not everything
1:18:19is going to make you a grandmaster 12,
1:18:22but
1:18:23um uh
1:18:25yeah, I I I think this I I I this is
1:18:29this is my core philosophy, you know.
1:18:32Yeah. Um and and my core experience.
1:18:36Uh and and yeah, it's because of uh I'm
1:18:40not a super disciplined person. I'm not
1:18:42a talented person especially. Uh I've
1:18:45just tried things for a long time and
1:18:47find out what works for me, what works
1:18:49for others. And one of the thing that
1:18:51never works for me is uh constantly
1:18:55judging myself or evaluating everything.
1:18:58That just takes up brain space that
1:19:00could be used of getting better, right?
1:19:04So, okay, we're very much out of time.
1:19:07Um but last question. Yeah, lunch and
1:19:10then we have a class. uh what's what's
1:19:13next for you and killer chess training?
1:19:16So killer chess training just want to
1:19:18very very quickly say so it's a our
1:19:21design artist has created this and I
1:19:24have requested get a much bigger king on
1:19:26the inside so there sort of like a more
1:19:28of a superman uh experience there.
1:19:32Um so we keep doing what we do. We have
1:19:35uh somewhere around 50 to 60 classes a
1:19:37month. We promise one every day. Um most
1:19:41times we have two sometimes even three
1:19:43classes a day. Uh we have students from
1:19:48let's say 14500 seated
1:19:52um up
1:19:54till I I don't want to name drop but uh
1:19:57there's some players in top 50 uh
1:19:59there's one at least at the
1:20:02moment and yeah it's a we're very much
1:20:06like a gym. We have many different
1:20:08options, many different classes you can
1:20:10join. You can come and go between them
1:20:12as you want. Uh you find the ones that
1:20:14are right for you and and you do that.
1:20:18And it's sort of like asking what's new
1:20:20for Harvard. Well, there will be new
1:20:21students and other students will be
1:20:23leaving and some students will come back
1:20:25and and
1:20:27um will be here will be available when
1:20:30people find it's the right time for them
1:20:32to to come and do training. Um, one
1:20:36thing that's very important for for us
1:20:38uh in the way that we we we founded the
1:20:42academy is that for them for for people
1:20:45who are those that was things were there
1:20:47for people who are really serious uh I
1:20:50want to to get a lot out of it there's a
1:20:52lot of material available there's a lot
1:20:54of classes there's a lot of challenging
1:20:55things
1:20:57um and for people who just want
1:20:59something once in a while is still the
1:21:01economics of it is is reasonable
1:21:04I don't know the exchange rate exactly,
1:21:06but it's somewhere around $900 a year,
1:21:10which um could could give you I think 90
1:21:13minutes with Sam Shanklin, for example,
1:21:15of personal instruction. Um so, uh it is
1:21:20cheap for some people and uh we have a
1:21:22number of Indian students, it's
1:21:24certainly not cheap for them, but it's
1:21:25good value. Um we have many different
1:21:29coaches who do things in in many
1:21:31different ways and I'm one of them. Um I
1:21:34don't do the admin. I don't organize the
1:21:36things. I own eight companies or
1:21:37something and I only do things that only
1:21:41I can do. And in this case I come and do
1:21:43classes and I have to do one in 25
1:21:46minutes. Yeah. Um so uh and otherwise I
1:21:51write books
1:21:53uh uh I'm going to create a another
1:21:56publishing house soon uh will come uh
1:22:00end of this year, start of next year.
1:22:02um that uh will will be focused more on
1:22:07uh the the the the great part of chess
1:22:10players who are below 2,000 in in rating
1:22:13and want to get better. Um there'll be
1:22:16some some everyman books that will get
1:22:18reprinted in there
1:22:20and will there'll be some new books and
1:22:22Lenny and I will do a complete training
1:22:24system for from let's say 1200 till
1:22:29uh 2,800.
1:22:32Nice. Uh, Yakob, thank you so much. It's
1:22:35been a pleasure. Thank you for coming.
1:22:36Absolutely. All right, folks. Take care.
1:22:39Thank you.

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