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How to Get Recommended by Google Maps AI | Darren Shaw — Transcript

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0:00So we are talking about how to get into
0:01Google Maps ask Maps AI. We're joined by
0:04Darren Shaw, one of the greatest
0:07all-time local SEO folks, founder of
0:10WhiteSpark. This is your I think your
0:12third or fourth time on the show and it
0:14is always amazing to have you on,
0:16Darren.
0:17>> Hey, thanks for having me, Edward.
0:19Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate
0:21it. Yeah, it's always a pleasure
0:22chatting with you.
0:23>> One of the goats in SEO for for real.
0:26>> Are you having like a rum and Coke
0:27there? What's going on?
0:28>> No, no, no. I have a cold brew and ice
0:31and but I get these fancy tumblers to
0:33drink out of.
0:33>> It looks like, you know, you're like
0:35like a 70-year-old man enjoying a nice
0:38cocktail.
0:38>> The gravelly voice. Yeah, I people think
0:40that I get drunk on like every episode
0:42of the show because I have these
0:43tumblers with the the cold brew.
0:45>> It does It does look like an alcohol
0:47drink.
0:48>> Yeah. I'm just I'm just partying out
0:50here doing SEO.
0:51>> I got my coffee doing. It's morning
0:53here.
0:55>> Um so just basics, what is ask Maps AI
0:59and why should local SEOs care about it?
1:02>> Well, ask Maps is Google's newish thing.
1:07It's been around the US for quite a bit
1:09now, a number of months, but
1:11um it's basically
1:13AI-driven results in Google Maps. That
1:16um and the simple
1:18way to think about about it is that it's
1:20Gemini
1:22grounded in Google's location data,
1:25which is Google Business Profiles. And
1:27so it's
1:30It's Gemini mostly, but it has more
1:33powerful local search angle to it
1:36because it's it's directly kind of
1:38connected. And so like a good example
1:40would be like you can go to Gemini and
1:42you could say
1:44um you know, recommend some plumbers in
1:46my city. And then you can go to ask Maps
1:48and say recommend some plumbers in my
1:50city. You get very different results and
1:51the reason for that is that ask Maps is
1:53grounded in your location in a way that
1:55Gemini isn't. It knows your location in
1:57a because maps.
2:00Um it knows your history in maps, where
2:03you travel to,
2:04your saved places, all that kind of
2:06stuff.
2:07Um
2:08and then it can also do things like it
2:11can you could you could ask ask maps
2:14something like, "Hey, I'm driving to the
2:15airport and
2:18I want to stop at a Starbucks on the
2:20way.
2:21Find me the closest one and then just
2:23set up the route. Do a multi-stop
2:24route." And so Ask Maps can actually
2:25just do it. Be like, "Oh, okay, I found
2:27this one. It's just like a 1-minute
2:28detour." and boom. So it it just gives
2:30you more things and then recently just
2:32came out with some agentic capabilities.
2:35So like you could say,
2:37"Hey Ask Maps, yeah, I'm heading home at
2:405:00 p.m. and I want to pick up some
2:43some tasty Smashburger.
2:46You know, can you can you set up the map
2:49and the route and place the order for
2:50me?" And so it'll it'll get you it'll do
2:53all the stuff.
2:55Gemini's twirling and and figuring it
2:57out and then it actually sets your order
2:58up. So those are some of the things that
3:00are coming and why is it important?
3:02Because for me it seems pretty obvious
3:04that this is the future
3:06of how local search
3:07results will be driven. You have the
3:09traditional search bar, you type that
3:10in.
3:11That's deterministic. You're going to
3:13get results and they're all going to be
3:14like, "Oh, here are the top plumbers in
3:16your city." But in
3:19Ask Maps, it's just it's all AI-driven
3:22and
3:23I think that not
3:25too far in the future our traditional
3:27search bar in local results will be
3:30swapped out for this one. And so it's
3:32very important to get ahead of this
3:33right now.
3:34>> Oh, wow. I didn't even I didn't even
3:37plan on on asking about about the
3:39future, but that's a very interesting
3:41prediction.
3:42>> Well, it's just the way everything is
3:44going, right? So actually, you know what
3:45I think will happen?
3:47I think right now it doesn't happen, but
3:48I think this will be the first phase of
3:50it, AI mode in local. So you go to
3:53Google Maps and you run a search and
3:55you're going to get
3:57the AI overview at the top of the
3:59results and then the traditional results
4:02underneath. I would expect that that is
4:04the way they sort of test up the initial
4:06rollout and then eventually, if it looks
4:09good and people are engaging with it and
4:11they can sell ads in it, then it'll
4:13become the default over time. That's
4:17That's my That's my crystal ball
4:18prediction.
4:20>> So, so right now though, it's it's
4:22basically like a button on like the top
4:24left Ask Maps. You click it, you're
4:26like, "My 16-year-old cousin is is
4:29coming to the city. Um he loves science
4:33fiction and pizza
4:37and and he's here for the weekend and I
4:38need stuff to do with him." And it's
4:40like
4:40>> Yeah, perfect.
4:41>> Yep. Yeah, and it's going to give you
4:43like a whole a whole list. Yeah, so
4:45>> Yeah, and you can do that in Gemini,
4:46too, but the difference is the grounding
4:48and the location awareness and and your
4:50history. Yeah.
4:52>> So, what are some tactics people can do
4:54to get their businesses recommended by
4:56it?
4:58>> Um so, good news, everybody.
5:02Ranking well in local will help you rank
5:04well in Ask Maps. So, the foundation as
5:09it is in traditional SEO, the if if you
5:12want to rank well in AI results, then
5:15ranking well in traditional results it
5:18gets you 80% of the way there. Um so,
5:20that is true.
5:21Also, for Ask Maps because it's it's
5:24very similar kind of system, right? It's
5:26Gemini. And so,
5:28that's that's optimizing your Google
5:30Business Profile. That's optimizing your
5:33website. That's optimizing
5:36your brand presence and link building
5:38and all the stuff that you would do for
5:39traditional SEO, of course, that is that
5:41is critical.
5:42But, um you know, as we get more and
5:45more into AI search, we
5:47we recognize that the systems do have
5:49differences and that there are nuances
5:52and things that you should be thinking
5:54about and things you should be doing.
5:55So, I knew you were going to ask these
5:56questions, so I prepared a pretty big
5:58long list last night as I was
5:59>> Perfect.
6:00>> uh thinking about this podcast. And so,
6:03let me just
6:03>> Thank you, Darren.
6:04>> Let me scroll through it.
6:06>> Okay.
6:07>> Um
6:09Uh let me just talk about completeness.
6:10So, that is huge. Basically, you can't
6:13be returned for something unless Google
6:15knows that you're relevant for it. And
6:17this has always been the case in SEO,
6:18and so I'm not really suggesting
6:20anything new here, but I do want you to
6:21think about
6:24AI results specifically in local. And
6:27so, you know, that's like making sure
6:28every service you offer is built out
6:30into your services. A lot of people
6:32currently have services, don't have
6:34descriptions.
6:36Major fail. Make sure that you go
6:37through your uh services and have a good
6:41description of every service. That
6:43information is being pulled by apps maps
6:45and is being referenced when they return
6:47businesses. So, if you're the only one
6:50in the city that does
6:53drain sewer drain camera work with a
6:56very specialized camera, say that. Put
6:59that Put that information about your
7:00business uh in your Google Business
7:02Profile. The services section is very
7:04underutilized. Same thing with the
7:05product section. You can actually uh
7:07slam a lot of really good information
7:09into the product section of your Google
7:10Business Profile.
7:12Uh description optimization is an AI
7:16tactic um in two ways. One, a lot of
7:19people have a Google Business Profile
7:20description that they wrote and it's
7:22talking about the good vibes of their
7:24business. It's not talking about their
7:26services. It's not talking about
7:29what they do, why they do it, all the
7:31important like details that you would
7:33want to be returned for for AI. And so,
7:37uh optimizing that, like taking a pass
7:39through your description, and then go
7:41and update all your citations with that
7:43description. It's not just on Google.
7:45You want the broader web to know that
7:46about your business as well. So, um I
7:49think that's a a big miss, but people
7:51they added citations 10 years ago, and
7:53then they haven't looked at them since,
7:54right? So, go and update all your
7:56business listings with a much more beefy
7:58description that is really focused on
8:02all the different things that you do.
8:03That is what's key. Um and we're
8:05thinking about service business, or if
8:06it's product business, then you can
8:08think about, well, you know, what you
8:09sell and what your differentiators are,
8:11that kind of stuff.
8:12Also, an attributes section that often
8:14gets overlooked in the Google Business
8:15Profile. Make sure you fill that out.
8:17Keep your hours up to date.
8:19Do see them referencing Google posts.
8:21So, uh Google posts are good to do. You
8:23should do them.
8:25>> Um how often?
8:27>> I like once a week. Once a week, keep
8:29the post going. You don't have to go
8:31crazy with them or anything, but I
8:33generally uh advise once a week cadence.
8:36But, it really depends on the business.
8:37Let's say you're a restaurant. That's
8:38like, you know, a lot of restaurants
8:40have so many things going on multiple
8:42times throughout the week. They got
8:44their Tuesday special. They got their
8:46Friday
8:48uh uh
8:48happy hour. Like, those are great Google
8:50posts. Keep Keep people up to date on
8:53what's happening in your business, and
8:54so if your business doesn't have an
8:56ongoing thing like that, then just do
8:59just do
9:00weekly. And again, focus on your
9:01services. Focus on
9:05on kind of what you do and why you do
9:07it, and think about conversions. Cuz a
9:09lot of The Google posts, yes, they will
9:11be referenced as like another data
9:12source, but um
9:14real humans looking at them,
9:17they are interested in your
9:19differentiating factors and why they
9:20should call you. So, think about that in
9:22your Google posts.
9:23>> This method of marketing is so
9:24effective, I had to make sure it wasn't
9:26against Google's rules before I kept
9:28using it. It's a form of SEO I call
9:30compact keywords. Whereas most SEO
9:32focuses on putting up articles to answer
9:34questions, how, what, when, compact
9:36keywords focuses on putting up dozens of
9:39pages that sell to searchers who are
9:41actually looking to buy. These pages
9:43rank on Google and convert so much
9:45better than normal that when I
9:46discovered this years ago, I couldn't
9:48believe this was allowed. It's less
9:50work, too. The average Compact Keywords
9:52landing page is only 415 words. Compact
9:55Keywords is a 13-hour deep course on
9:58getting sales with SEO. A customer said,
10:00"We spent nearly 18,000 in the last year
10:03and a half on marketing and SEO through
10:05different agencies locally and that did
10:07nothing. We decided to take the leap on
10:09the Compact Keywords course. We're now
10:11getting about six to eight calls per day
10:13on a good day, which is just unheard
10:15of." Another customer said, "Give it to
10:17a junior employee, have them follow it
10:19exactly as Edwards laid out. You don't
10:21have to do anything and you're going to
10:23gain a six-figure SEO level employee
10:26just by having them go through this
10:28course. Compact Keywords is about
10:29setting up an SEO funnel that brings you
10:31sales for years and years and years. It
10:34works with AI, it's less work than
10:36traditional SEO, and it makes way more
10:39money. You can get it now at
10:41compactkeywords.com.
10:43Back to the podcast.
10:44>> Social profiles, if you haven't
10:46connected your social profiles to your
10:48Google Business Profile,
10:49you better do that because that
10:52connection of that business entity with
10:54your social feeds, it's super valuable.
10:57Google is pulling them in, that's why
10:58they gave us these fields to fill them
11:00out. And a lot of people, you know, I'm
11:03talking about, "Oh, yeah, we have a
11:04special tonight." They think about
11:06putting that on Instagram, but they
11:07forgot to put it on their Google
11:08Business Profile. So, that's where make
11:10sure your social profiles are connected.
11:13Um huge huge one. Google is definitely
11:16definitely referencing all of that.
11:19Um and then if you're not active on
11:20social, get active on social. It shows
11:22life in your business, right? So, I
11:23would say that's a big one for sure.
11:26Uh photos and videos. Um a lot of people
11:29make this mistake, too. They're like,
11:30"Hey hey everybody, we're on location at
11:33this client's house and they're they'll
11:35make a freaking cool video and they
11:36upload that to Tik Tok their Tik Tok and
11:39their Instagram, but their sad Google
11:41business profile never gets them that
11:43up. So, uh make sure you're uploading
11:46that stuff to your Google business
11:48profile as well.
11:50Um
11:52Reviews are matched to be quite massive
11:54for AI search. I would say most of the
11:59things that Google sites and the reasons
12:01that they recommend this business over
12:04that business is usually because of what
12:06was said in reviews. So, your if you
12:09want to do well in Ask Map to results,
12:12then you really need to be thinking
12:13about your review strategy and some few
12:15tweaks you should make to it. Number
12:16one, if you just say, "Hey, would you
12:18mind leaving us a review on Google?" and
12:20people say, "Yeah, sure, I'll do it."
12:21and then you're like, "Great, thanks a
12:23lot."
12:24You have failed. You need to do more.
12:27You need to encourage them to describe
12:30the services that they got, talk a
12:33little bit about, you know, what makes
12:35what made the experience great. If you
12:37get that stuff in your reviews, Google
12:39sites it. Google references it. Google's
12:41like, "Wow, people say that Brothers
12:44Plumbing always leave the house clean."
12:48Beautiful. Cuz people search that. They
12:50go to freaking Ask Maps and they're
12:51like, "I'm looking for a plumber in my
12:53area, but I'm really sensitive cuz I've
12:55got these new floorings. I just put it
12:57in last week and I don't want uh them to
12:59come in and mess up my floors." I'll be
13:01like, "Oh, no problem. Let me look
13:03ahead. Well, everyone says Brothers
13:05Plumbing is very careful and they do a
13:07great job." So, that is
13:09where you need to step up your review
13:11strategy and you need to be trying to
13:13get more and uh
13:16Mary Meeker just published a new post on
13:19the White Spark blog where she
13:20investigated all those different extra
13:22questions that Google will ask when you
13:24um
13:26>> When you leave a review, that is great
13:28data to mine what is important to
13:30Google. So, you can take a look at that
13:31on the Whitespark blog, but the uh the
13:34real takeaway is you want to mix up your
13:36review requests. Sometimes you might ask
13:38for this little version of it, and
13:40sometimes you might ask for this. So,
13:42generate a number of different review
13:44requests. Hey, would you leave us a
13:45review, and could you mention this,
13:46this, and this? And another one is, hey,
13:48could you make sure you mention this,
13:49this, and this? You just want to get
13:50that data into your review corpus.
13:53So, reviews, yeah, and then diversify
13:55reviews. Make sure that uh
13:58they are on a number of
14:01key sites. So, you you can usually
14:03identify what they are if you just go
14:04like, you know,
14:06uh take a competitor, top competitor,
14:08and be like business name reviews. You
14:09can see it one of the sites that Google
14:11puts in the search results. You can say
14:13do it with multiple things. You'll be
14:14like, you know,
14:15uh my own business reviews. You can see
14:17where Google's pulling from. And so,
14:19it's Google, of course, is number one,
14:20but try to get reviews on other sites,
14:22too.
14:24Um especially it's the industry-specific
14:26sites. So, if you're in home services,
14:29it would be like HomeStars is a big one
14:31in Canada, HomeAdvisor, that kind of
14:32stuff.
14:34Um review responses.
14:36Didn't used to matter much. People Yeah,
14:38people would always say, "Ah, you should
14:39respond to reviews because people might
14:42uh Yeah, people will see that, and it's
14:43important." So, that advice still
14:45stands, but there's a new reason, and
14:48that is because AI will reference review
14:51responses.
14:52And so, that's just another data source.
14:54And so, how you respond, what you say in
14:57your response, they do somewhat get um
15:01uh considered uh in in the responses
15:03that AI will generate for your business.
15:06>> So, so wait for a business owner who's
15:08listening, and they're like, "So, do I
15:09need to put my keywords in my
15:10responses?" Like, "Thank you for coming
15:13to Joe's emergency 24-hour
15:16>> Yeah. Yeah, I think
15:19I think you could use [clears throat]
15:20them a little bit. You could just zhoosh
15:22them up, but don't don't be stupid about
15:24it like
15:26if you want Google to know that
15:29something
15:31And I'm going to I'm going to get to
15:32this. I want you to ask me the question
15:35about using Ask Maps as a research tool.
15:37So,
15:39just planting that seed for you.
15:40Because cuz how you respond to reviews,
15:45what you want to zhoosh with, you can
15:47actually get that information from Ask
15:49Maps. So, you just want to zhoosh them
15:50up, but don't keyword stuff. Be normal.
15:51Be a human because you're still not
15:54writing your responses for the robots.
15:56You're writing the responses for
15:59for the humans that will read them. So,
16:01but yeah. Anyways, review responses.
16:04And then you see embed these great
16:06reviews on your
16:09pages, your web pages, your especially
16:10your service pages, especially if
16:12they're mentioning specific things. I
16:13think that's a a miss that a lot of
16:14businesses do.
16:16I don't know.
16:17I got website section. I got data
16:21cleanup section. I got social media
16:23section. Why don't you pull out some of
16:25those and ask me. I got branding,
16:26offline stuff.
16:28What do you want to ask about?
16:29>> Well, yeah. So,
16:31okay. Well, I got to ask about Ask Maps
16:33as a research tool. Like
16:35>> Okay, yeah.
16:36>> Yeah.
16:36>> [laughter]
16:37>> Um
16:38>> me with that, come on.
16:39>> It's it's kind of amazing. So, I think
16:43this is maybe everyone listen up. I
16:45think this might be the most valuable
16:47part of this episode you're going to
16:48listen to. Um Ask Maps
16:52is kind of cool cuz you've just
16:55connected a really powerful AI to
16:59Google's business profile database. And
17:02what can you do with that? So much.
17:04You can
17:06you can just ask it and you get
17:08answers. So, like you can be like Uh I I
17:11wrote some examples down. For plumbing
17:13businesses in Edmonton, what are the
17:15some of common pain points people
17:17mention in their reviews?
17:19So, you can ask that question and
17:22As Maps will look at all the freaking
17:25reviews in for every damn business in
17:29um your city for in your category and
17:32come back with a really amazing list.
17:34You'll be like, "Oh damn, thanks." This
17:36is like solves a problem instantly. So,
17:38now you get all these pain points. And
17:40so, now you've got you you know that
17:42people are complaining that the they
17:44didn't show up on time. You know that
17:46people are complaining that they didn't
17:48keep the place clean. People sometimes
17:50complain that something was damaged,
17:52right? And so, now you have all these
17:54talking points. So, first those are
17:58Let me take one step back. Before you
18:00ask about common things in your city,
18:02ask about your own damn business. What
18:03are people saying about my that insert
18:07business name here?
18:09What are people complaining about in
18:10their reviews? Okay.
18:12Uh yeah, mhm. I hear you, Google. We got
18:15to fix those things in our business.
18:16It's come up a few times, right? So,
18:18that's a good example.
18:20Um but you can ask about
18:21all the other competitors in your
18:23category, too. And now you build up this
18:24list of pain points. And with that list
18:26of pain points, you can then address
18:28them in your responses. Just kind of
18:30address them in. You can address them on
18:33your in your service descriptions on
18:35your Google Business right. You can
18:36address them on your website. And so,
18:38these are conversion-based
18:40signals. So, you take a pain point and
18:42you turn it into a special callout on
18:44your website. You'd be like, "We are the
18:46plumbers that always leave the place
18:48clean." Like that's a very specific
18:50thing. And make a Google post about it.
18:52Make a damn Google post saying, "We are
18:54the plumbers that always leave your
18:55place clean." So, you can get that data
18:58right from As Maps. You can just ask it
19:00and and it'll give you the answer.
19:03Another one would be uh you can ask this
19:05question, which I actually think is
19:06quite useful. You can say, "What are the
19:08most important third-party websites
19:11that plumbers in my city should be
19:13listed on that Ask Maps references when
19:16building its responses. It just told you
19:17the most important citations for your
19:19industry.
19:20>> [laughter]
19:20>> So, all right, thanks Ask Maps. And then
19:23the same
19:24>> Thanks, Darren Shaw, for that problem.
19:26>> Or it is for reviews, right? Like, oh,
19:28what are the what are the what other
19:29sites I know you I know you care about
19:31Google reviews, Ask Maps, but what are
19:33some other sites that you reference for
19:35plumbers in my city? Oh, I reference
19:37HomeAdvisor and HomeStars. And I'm like,
19:39oh.
19:40Thanks for the info. And so now you know
19:43where you get you should get your
19:44additional
19:46uh reviews pushed to, right?
19:49I have Okay, this might be the wow
19:52moment on the podcast.
19:54Uh so,
19:56you can ask
19:58>> [laughter]
19:58>> I can't believe this works. And I think
20:00I understand how it works after playing
20:01with it. So, you know how a service area
20:03business on Ask Maps, you can't see
20:05their address?
20:07Well, Ask Maps will tell you their
20:08address. You can just say, "Hey, you
20:10know you know, uh Euro Men uh Painting
20:13Services in Edmonton,
20:15uh what is their address?" Ask Maps will
20:17tell you their address. And they're
20:19like, "Oh, they're located at blah blah
20:21blah." So, but you can't normally see
20:23the address of the business. And so,
20:25this is useful for uh ranking
20:27configuration cuz you might know when
20:29you set up a grid like where do they
20:31where should they typically rank, right?
20:32So, you can find that.
20:34And so, I was like, "Oh man, Google,
20:35you're not supposed to reveal the
20:36address cuz like if people say don't do
20:39that." And but
20:40I think this is just a unfortunate side
20:43effect of AI because it's
20:44Gemini-powered. And so, Gemini has
20:47reference to business registration
20:50information. They have all these
20:51databases, right? And so, they're not
20:53necessarily showing you what the address
20:54is on the back end of Google. They're
20:56just like, "Oh, well, you know, the it
20:5910 years ago they created a yellow page
21:01listing and they had their address
21:03there." And so, I had I know that cuz
21:05I'm an AI who knows everything. And so,
21:07then they just tell you. But it is very
21:08interesting. It's cool that you could do
21:10that. It's a nice little hack.
21:11If you want to find the address of any
21:14business on Google Maps that's a service
21:16area business, just ask ask Maps for it.
21:18Now, I tested it on a few businesses and
21:20businesses that I know where they
21:21originally are located at their home
21:23address
21:24and it was it was correct on all of
21:28those. So, that's a that's an
21:30interesting detail.
21:32>> That's wild.
21:33>> You can ask it anything. I
21:35you know, do use your own brain. Think
21:37about questions you want to ask for like
21:39research of like research about your own
21:41business, research about your
21:42competitors, and ask Maps will give you
21:44amazing insights on that because it's
21:46grounded in Google Business Profiles.
21:51Um all right. What do you want to know
21:53about next? Uh should we talk about
21:57branding
21:59and why that's important?
22:01>> Yes, we should. Well, yes, we should.
22:03Let's talk about branding why it's
22:04important.
22:05>> Okay, I want to know.
22:06>> So, yeah. Um
22:09>> I love branding. I I personally also I
22:11love brand like I I'm inspired by a good
22:13brand. To me, that's like inspiring. But
22:15like yeah, why is it important for Ask
22:16Maps?
22:18>> Um in a world of AI, so in a traditional
22:21SEO environment, Google, of course, they
22:25looked at your links and they looked at,
22:27you know, your online presence outside
22:29of your website and your Google Business
22:31Profile. But I do think that that is
22:33significantly amplified in an AI
22:36environment. And so, you need to be
22:39thinking quite a bit more about
22:43what the rest of the web is saying about
22:45your business. We're talking about local
22:47bloggers, we're talking about Reddit
22:49communities, we're talking about
22:51um
22:52you know, any anywhere conversations are
22:54happening about either your city or your
22:56industry. And Reddit is huge. So, let's
22:59talk about Reddit first. So, what is the
23:00Reddit strategy? I do think it's
23:02worthwhile for businesses to start
23:04thinking about and working Reddit. And
23:07this is how you do it. You create a
23:08branded
23:09um Reddit account, Brothers Plumbing.
23:13Bro- Brothers Plumbing Edmonton was was
23:15called, right? So, that's your actual
23:17handle.
23:18And then
23:19you monitor the {slash}
23:22city
23:23subreddit. You can use a tool called
23:25S5Bot. It's free and it's a freaking
23:27amazing. It's like someone posts
23:28something and within like 5 minutes you
23:30get an email being like, "Someone asked
23:31a plumbing question on on {slash}
23:33Edmonton." Yeah, I don't know if you use
23:34it, but it's so good.
23:35>> it I use it every day. It's crazy cuz I
23:37get a lot a lot of mentions. It's It's
23:38perfect. Yeah.
23:39>> Yeah, it's so good, right? I don't know
23:41why it's free. I actually I was like,
23:42"Come on." It's crazy.
23:43I don't know why this is I I
23:44deliberately I felt bad and so I'm like,
23:47"I don't I don't get any extra value out
23:49of your pro plan, but I'm going to pay
23:50for it anyways because
23:51I want to give you money." So, I signed
23:53up for that thing. And
23:54>> that, too.
23:55>> Yeah, cuz it's
23:56>> It's so valuable cuz it's like it's it's
23:58crazy that it's free.
23:59>> Yeah, I don't know. So, uh S5Bot will
24:02track mentions and so if someone
24:03mentions these specific plumbing things
24:05in your city subreddit, then you are
24:08just a helpful citizen Brothers Plumbing
24:10Edmonton and you jump in there and be
24:11like, "Here's how to solve that." And
24:13you don't have to pitch your services.
24:14You just be a be a helpful guy. And then
24:17the uh
24:19the other one is to monitor the plumbing
24:21specific um
24:23subreddits and then getting involved
24:25there, too. So, that's a Reddit strategy
24:26and then this is very important. People
24:29might make that handle, but then
24:31Google doesn't know that those Reddit
24:33conversations are specifically
24:35associated with your business. So, make
24:37sure you link to your Reddit from your
24:38website. So, you can't connect a Reddit
24:41profile to your Google Business Profile,
24:43but you can connect it via
24:48via your website. So, you know, you got
24:50your social links at the bottom of in
24:51your footer or whatever, add Reddit
24:53there. Um that is one good way to do it.
24:56And this is one of the
24:59one of the very few things I would
25:00suggest schema for, but you could use a
25:02schema same as as well on your homepage.
25:05So, you would say same as this Reddit
25:07profile. Yeah. Yeah. So, Reddit is one
25:09and then if you have other local
25:10communities that people uh chat about
25:13either in your industry or in your city,
25:15then getting involved there. The other
25:17one I think is is really interesting is
25:20sponsoring local events, right? So,
25:22yesterday I was at the farmers market
25:25and
25:26uh I haven't seen this before, but there
25:28was a dentist at the farmers market and
25:31he had set up a booth and he had all
25:32these like they have those like spin the
25:34wheel to win a prize where kids would
25:35come up and then they would they they
25:37were excited. They would spin the wheel
25:38and then they had all these cool prizes
25:40for kids, right? So, all they is all
25:42they were doing. They're not they were
25:44not being like, "Hey, can you leave us a
25:46review or anything?" They were just
25:47like,
25:48you know, engaging with the community,
25:50talking with people that were shopping
25:52at the farmers market. They did take
25:53down names. You're like, "Yeah, well,
25:55you know, just enter your name here for
25:56I think for like a draw." And then they
25:58would follow up with those people and be
26:00like,
26:03"Are you due for a cleaning?"
26:05You know, help you out. Like they would
26:06actually do some outreach on the on the
26:07list that they gathered. But that whole
26:09just like being present in the community
26:11is is is a thing that very few
26:13businesses do and I think that that will
26:15pay dividends. People just It just
26:17creates a conversation on some of these
26:19online channels. Anyways, that's Those
26:21are my thoughts on branding and
26:23community.
26:25>> Do you Would you advise um local
26:27businesses to ever create their own
26:28subreddit?
26:32>> Probably not. Whitespark did it. Like I
26:35have my own subreddit and we post it So,
26:37if if we've created a post for our
26:40social channels, Reddit is just one of
26:42them. So, we post it and we get some
26:43engagement. Like we're growing our
26:44followers on Reddit. So, it actually is
26:47is kind of like another social channel.
26:49And so, people leave a comment and then
26:50we would to them. We'll be like, "Hey."
26:51Or they have a question. So,
26:53Whitespark has a subreddit. It's
26:54awesome, actually. You should go and
26:56check it out and follow me on Reddit.
26:58So, engage in that in my Whitespark
27:00channel.
27:01Um but
27:04for the average small business,
27:06it
27:07I feel your pain, small business owners.
27:10I'm giving you a long list of additional
27:13things to do, and you're like, "I don't
27:14have time for this. I just got to fix
27:16sinks. I just got to change toilets. I
27:18don't have time for all this crap." So,
27:21uh it's it's the kind of like business
27:24that is just breaking out and has a
27:25little bit of extra revenue to hire a
27:27person to kind of work this stuff.
27:29That's that's Those are really who I'm
27:31talking to. If you're a small business
27:33and you're just trying to do it on your
27:34own, then you're just going to hack it
27:36together as fast as possible, which
27:37means you
27:39you quickly take something on your
27:40phone, you speak to your camera, and
27:42then you you use some software to
27:44distribute it to all the channels. Then
27:45it's like, just trying to make it as
27:47easy as possible. But, um yeah. I
27:49Generally, creating your very own
27:51subreddit for a small business, I'd say
27:53no.
27:55Yeah.
27:55>> So, then on on this note, what are some
27:58tactics or tasks that will be a waste of
28:00time? Cuz like you said, small business
28:02owners
28:04ain't got time for that. Like
28:05>> [clears throat]
28:06>> So, what what's Yeah, what's going to be
28:08the
28:09things where they're like, "Oh, man.
28:11I
28:12I don't want to waste time on this."
28:16>> Well, it's helpful. I would just like
28:18honestly, the Reddit one is like It's a
28:20bit of a stretch to go that far. I was
28:21going to say another one that's a bit of
28:22a stretch, which I would recommend if
28:24you have the resources to do it, is
28:27writing content for industry
28:29publications. That's That's a valuable
28:32one. So, you're like, "Oh, yeah. Well,
28:34in my space,
28:35you know, plumbing plumbing info weekly,
28:38right?" It's It's like some some like
28:40industry blog, then you could write an
28:42article, but the effort to do that is
28:45like you got to have something original
28:47to say. And like, yeah.
28:49>> I think a better question then is like,
28:51what are some things people try to do
28:53with local SEO that you see them doing
28:55all the time, but it doesn't actually
28:57move the needle?
29:00>> Posts don't really move the needle in
29:02traditional local SEO.
29:04But, please continue doing them doing
29:06them cuz they have value from a
29:07conversion perspective. They have and
29:09they have a new
29:10rejuvenated value on the AI side of
29:12things. I still think there's a very few
29:14things where I would say, ah, that's
29:16always geotagging images is always my
29:18favorite response to that question. Yes.
29:21>> Yeah, that's a good one.
29:22>> Further testing required on that one cuz
29:24I'm like, okay, yeah. In traditional
29:26SEO, we've always known it's it's
29:27stupid. Google strips it, makes no it
29:29has no value, right?
29:31But now I'm like, oh well, maybe in AI
29:33SEO
29:35geotagging might help.
29:37I don't know. I don't know if the AIs
29:39are ingesting that data, if they're
29:40thinking about it in a way that
29:41traditional search engines hadn't. So,
29:45further research required on that one.
29:46But that would be one of the ones that I
29:47always talk about is like, that's kind
29:49of a stupid ass waste of time.
29:51Everything else
29:53everything else is
29:55Have you ever heard of Google stacking?
29:57Google stacking is like
29:59you
30:01you'll go and create like a blogspot
30:03article and that blogspot article links
30:05to your website. And then you go and you
30:08create all these Google Docs across
30:09multiple Google accounts and Google
30:11Sheets and all of those link to thing.
30:13And then you
30:15Whatever is like a Google property, you
30:17you create all these Google
30:20resources that link to the blogspot and
30:22then the blogspot links to you. So, this
30:23is like
30:25Google stacking, right? You do. Well,
30:26the best link in the world you could get
30:28is from Google. This is what people are
30:30thinking.
30:31Well, that's a waste of time.
30:33Don't do that. That's some stupid
30:36>> Yeah. How about how about local business
30:38schema?
30:40>> That's one of the ones that I would
30:41probably classify as extremely low
30:44value. There's
30:46>> [laughter]
30:46>> In fact, it's one of the ones where I
30:48would almost advise everybody not to do.
30:51And the reason I would say that is
30:52because it's often forgotten. So, here
30:55here's the common scenario I've I've
30:56seen so many times. Schema local
30:59business schema on its own will not
31:00increase your rankings, right?
31:02Okay, it's like handing Google a
31:04business card, making sure everything is
31:06very clear, crystal clear to Google,
31:08even though they have no problem parsing
31:09it from your footer, whatever wherever
31:11you put your name at this phone number,
31:12right? But,
31:13here's what happens. You put the damn
31:15schema in 4 years ago. Oh, no, something
31:18has changed. You moved. You changed your
31:20phone number.
31:22You're like, "Oh, well, we better update
31:23our websites." They go to their website.
31:24They update They update it on the
31:26website.
31:27"Oh, yeah, I forgot that my web
31:29developer put the schema in 4 years
31:31ago." And so, now the schema is wrong,
31:33and you can't figure out why. And you're
31:35like, it just creates problems. It
31:37creates an annoying thing. And so, I
31:39don't love local business schema. I I
31:41don't care to bother putting it on.
31:43You'll have a lot of people saying it's
31:44important. Recent um
31:46Lots of people have published content
31:49about schema for AI SEO and talked about
31:52how like it's not important. It's not
31:55valuable. Doesn't help your AI
31:56visibility. So, I would say schema is
31:59one of the ones that is very low on the
32:01list of things to do. Yeah.
32:03>> Yeah. What How about spending time on
32:05NAP consistency?
32:08>> That's a
32:09NAP consistency as a tactic is having a
32:14comeback.
32:15It is It is now more important because
32:19of AI search. And so, I actually would
32:22uh invest the time to
32:24ensure your citations are cleaned up.
32:27And you don't have to go crazy. Oh, no,
32:29my uh I got the wrong phone number on my
32:31My Huckleberry listing. That doesn't
32:33matter.
32:34Don't worry about that. But, uh at least
32:36on the sites that are uh
32:39regularly cited, that are prominent
32:42sites in your industry, they are worth a
32:44look. Make sure your information is
32:46correct. But,
32:47if I would say
32:49citation consistency is 20% of the work
32:53you should do on your citations, and the
32:55other 80% is like what I would call
32:57citation optimization. That is, oh,
33:00okay, these sites are being referenced
33:02by AI. These sites we know Google looks
33:04at them. You can use Ask Maps and ask
33:06them, what are the sites? They'll tell
33:08you. And then and then go to those sites
33:11and ensure that you've beefed up that
33:13description. You've added anything It's
33:16like, you know how you want to get your
33:17Google Business Profile to 100%
33:19complete? Same strategy on any of those
33:21sites. So, just beef it up. Add photos.
33:23Add video. Oh, they got to Sex Rocket
33:25upload videos. Perfect. I'm going to
33:26make some videos about services that we
33:29offer. I'm going to throw those in
33:30there. You want to get You want to max
33:33your citations on the key sites that
33:36um
33:37that these systems are referencing.
33:40>> So, yeah, you were talk You were talking
33:41about this before, but how important is
33:43website information like the information
33:45on your website for and the pages that
33:48you have for influencing Ask Maps?
33:51>> Yeah, I would say very important,
33:53extremely important. And I would say Let
33:57me go to my website section. Your work
33:59to do on your website, if you uh you
34:01know,
34:02beyond traditional SEO, but this is also
34:04still traditional SEO,
34:06is you want a separate page for every
34:07service, every separate page for every
34:10sub-service,
34:11separate pages for um a ser- service
34:15areas. So, you want to make sure that
34:16that information is very clear on
34:20uh website. And it's structured nicely.
34:23So, you have a section on your website
34:24called services. Don't call it like
34:27stuff we are cool at. Like, that's very
34:31It's confusing to the bots, right? Like,
34:33is that the services section? I don't
34:34know. Call services. So, you got a
34:36section called services and in there
34:38you're going to you're going to have a
34:39page for all of your major services and
34:42then you're going to build out those
34:43pages.
34:44Um
34:45query fan out and FAQs. This is a If you
34:49don't have FAQs on every service page,
34:51this is an op- optimization opportunity
34:53for you and you can use a tool like
34:55Q-foria to do query fan out to
34:58understand for various prompts, what are
35:00the sub prompts that the AIs will
35:02generate to understand your business.
35:05Those will really inform your FAQs on
35:09each individual service page. You can
35:11also use a tool like Also Asked, which
35:13is very valuable to kind of just figure
35:14out what are people interested in
35:16knowing. And make sure that you have
35:17FAQs about that on every page. Another A
35:20big thing that people miss on their web
35:22pages is they will make a pricing page.
35:26Well, okay. The first huge mistake is
35:28they don't have any pricing information
35:29on their website. So, yeah, if you are
35:31in that situation, well, fix that
35:33immediately because AI is very
35:35interested in your pricing and if you
35:37don't have the pricing, you basically
35:38get excluded for any questions related
35:40to that.
35:42So, put the pricing on your website. Uh
35:44AIs want to know that and then
35:46another thing that people forget to do
35:48is that they have like, oh, well, we
35:49have this on our home page we say, you
35:51know, projects range between this price
35:53and that price and the range is fine. If
35:55you don't want you know, you don't like
35:56every everything's custom, so I don't
35:57know what a price is, but put a range.
36:00And then do that on every individual
36:02service page. In the FAQs, how much does
36:04this service cost? How much does drain
36:06cleaning cost in Edmonton? And then you
36:08have FAQ for that. You be like, well,
36:10projects typically range between this
36:11and this, but you know, things can get
36:13complicated and then they could get into
36:15the higher range, but typically these
36:17projects fall in about this range. So,
36:19those are the kinds of things you want
36:20to have on every single service page.
36:23Um
36:24And this is a big one. You can also use
36:27Answer maps as a research tool and this
36:29is a great prompt.
36:31What are the more obscure services and
36:36subtopics that people ask about
36:39that most of my competitors aren't
36:42currently covering. Like and so you'll
36:44get this interesting list back from as
36:47maps. You'll be like, "Oh, these very
36:48specific things." And then make pages on
36:51your website about that. And then make
36:52services sections in your Google
36:54business profile all about those. And
36:55that's like golden opportunity to be
36:57like, "Oh, well, we could be getting
36:59these leads." And sometimes those ones
37:00are like because they're obscure,
37:02they're like these huge complicated
37:03projects that you might want.
37:05Unfortunately, sometimes they are the
37:07really
37:09bad projects that nobody wants. So,
37:10>> [laughter]
37:11>> it's up to you if you want to put them
37:12on your website, but that is just
37:14something to think about and that's a
37:15great website optimization strategy. And
37:18I'm going to You You might notice I will
37:20not say schema as a website strategy for
37:23as maps or for any AI optimization. I
37:25just don't think there's value there.
37:28>> Would you put FAQs in a drop-down
37:30accordion or would you have them already
37:32like I think the term is like unferruled
37:35so that you can Yeah, or just like maybe
37:38plain text and you're not even using
37:40like
37:41like an FAQ widget or something.
37:43>> Yeah, I think a drop-down accordion is
37:45perfectly fine as long as it's built in
37:48a way
37:49where they're just divs. Like you have
37:51divs on the page, each question and
37:53answer is a div and then the JavaScript
37:56that expands and collapse just makes
37:57them visible or invisible. The page is
37:59still there. The content is still on the
38:01page in the HTML, no problem.
38:04But there are some accordion plugins
38:07that actually put it in a database and
38:09then they load them dynamically. That's
38:11JavaScript rendering. You don't want
38:12that.
38:1590% of them are fine.
38:17Just do a little research before you
38:19choose how you're going to implement
38:20your accordion. Most of them do a great
38:22job. And this is actually really
38:23interesting cuz Mark Williams Cook
38:26Williams Cook did a cool study where he
38:28just put some scheme schema on his page.
38:31It was totally fake schema. And the AIs
38:34reference it, right? They're like, "Oh,
38:35it's And so
38:36>> Duck test the duck duck head t-shirts,
38:39yeah.
38:39>> Yeah, yeah, the duck head t-shirts. And
38:41so what that tells you is that like if
38:43you have written content text on your
38:46page, the AIs will do it. The way I
38:48visual visualize this is
38:50AI hits your page, it takes everything,
38:52all of it, strips out all the code, and
38:54whatever's left, that's information
38:57about your business. And so if it's on
38:59the page in the accordions, it's going
39:02to get picked up. So no problem. All
39:04right, so I think accordions are fine
39:05and I wouldn't stress too much about
39:07that. And I would put them in there
39:08because otherwise your page is like
39:11scrolling forever, which is not a good
39:13user experience.
39:14>> Then um Mark Williams Cook, he he made a
39:17cats.txt
39:18to mock the aliens.txt and it was being
39:21like before it went viral and everyone
39:24was talking about it, it was like
39:26I think ChatGPT was saying, "Yes, it is
39:28a standard that you should absolutely
39:30use for for Geo, the cats.txt."
39:33>> cats.txt.
39:35That is the funny thing about AI is that
39:37it is we're in the manipulation days. Um
39:40but speaking of manipulating AI, a lot
39:43of people manipulate AI with uh
39:46comparison pages, right? And so they go
39:50all wild on that and it can be
39:51problematic. So Lily Ray will talk about
39:53this, be like, "It works until it
39:54doesn't." And so people that are overly
39:56trying to manipulate things with like
39:58best of lists or like lists on their
40:00pages on their website be like, "Here
40:03are the top 10 plumbers in Edmonton."
40:05And then they list themselves at the
40:06top, and then nine totally unheard of
40:10businesses that maybe aren't even real.
40:13That's real common.
40:13>> they make them up. They make them up,
40:15yeah.
40:16>> So this is a common tactic, and I'm
40:18going to say
40:19don't do that cuz it works until it
40:21doesn't, and uh it may actually show you
40:23an immediate boost, but you can also see
40:25a lot of people that do like scale AI
40:27content, and they're like, "Oh my god,
40:28this scaled content is great." Until
40:30it's not, and then they totally fall off
40:32on the results, but
40:33>> but
40:35there is an AI play that I would
40:38recommend, and that is um comparison
40:40pages.
40:43Don't go overboard, but there is no harm
40:46in positioning your business against the
40:50top incumbents in your city, in your
40:53industry. So, let's say it's like
40:55I don't know. What comes to mind in
40:57Edmonton? Capital Plumbing. Capital
40:59Plumbing is one you see the trucks
41:00around. They're they're pretty big.
41:01They're they they're they're obviously
41:03one of the biggest uh plumbing companies
41:05in Edmonton. So, if I was a
41:07up-and-coming plumber, I'm like trying
41:08to build my business, I might make a
41:10page comparing my services to Capital
41:13Plumbing.
41:14And I might build that page based off of
41:17those pain points that I can siphon out
41:19of the reviews. And so, I might ask use
41:21Ask Maps for the research. I'll be like,
41:24"What do people typically complain about
41:26uh with their services with Capital
41:28Plumbing?" Oh, thanks, Ask Maps. Just
41:30going to hand it to you on a silver
41:31platter. Now, you can build your
41:33comparison page, and you can address
41:34those and be like,
41:35"And you don't you don't slag them. You
41:37just say,
41:39"People often mention in their reviews
41:41this, this, and this."
41:42Um
41:44people often uh highlight in our reviews
41:47how we con- we're contrasting to that. I
41:50think a handful of those kind of
41:52comparison pages are smart and useful,
41:55and they would absolutely impact your AI
41:57visibility because comparisons are a
42:00huge thing of what people do when they
42:02are searching on AI.
42:05>> Does for for Ask Maps, does proximity
42:08dominate or can a stronger business get
42:10recommended even when it's farther away?
42:13>> What a great question. Uh so, proximity
42:15is absolutely critical as we uh have
42:19learned over the years uh trying to
42:21optimize for local results. Proximity is
42:24less important in the AI results. And
42:26another huge factor is that
42:29AI-driven results, including Ask Maps,
42:32are very probabilistic. And what that
42:34means is that
42:36let me just describe what deterministic
42:38is.
42:38The results are already kind of
42:40predetermined. Like, they change, they
42:42fluctuate with algorithms and things
42:44shifting. Um but, if you just did a
42:46search and you got like, you know,
42:48people in your immediate area to run a
42:51search for plumbers
42:53in Edmonton,
42:54you're all going to get roughly the same
42:56results, right?
42:57Um and if you searched again in 5
42:59minutes, roughly the same. You might see
43:01a little variation because things are
43:03dynamic and they're always shifting.
43:04That's the traditional SEO result.
43:06In AI results, they're always freaking
43:09different. Like, you run a search and
43:11you may get like
43:13you're going to get one set of results,
43:14and then I'm going to open a new tab or
43:16run the exact same search and get
43:17different results. And that's because AI
43:19systems are probabilistic. And so, it
43:22does appear that um the Ask Maps results
43:26are
43:28less
43:29concerned about proximity to you. They
43:32do factor it in, but it is less of a
43:34signal than it is in traditional
43:36results. So, they will say, "Oh, this
43:37one's close to you." And so, they will
43:39actually think about that. But, it's
43:42kind of better [clears throat] in a way
43:43because, you know, if especially for a
43:44service business, they will
43:47preference businesses that are further
43:49away if they have a great online
43:51reputation. The reviews are strong. They
43:53have all this information on their
43:54website. They're one of the very few
43:55that offer this very specific service.
43:57They they're just notorious as being
44:00awesome. And so, like when
44:02when even though they're far away, they
44:04would be more likely to rank. Whereas,
44:05that's not necessarily true in the local
44:07results.
44:09>> Is Is Ask Maps also like, you know, Jim
44:11and I will know a lot about you. So,
44:13like, is Ask Maps pulling from all
44:15different Google sources to learn about
44:17what you like? Like, maybe you had
44:19something in your email where you're
44:20like, "I love this type of pizza."
44:22Or is it
44:24Yeah?
44:25>> So,
44:27Ask Maps,
44:28that is one of the things that
44:30differentiates it from Gemini. So, in
44:33Gemini, you can like run searches and
44:35it'll tell you what it knows about
44:36various businesses and it'll give you
44:37even local results there. But, in Ask
44:39Maps,
44:40um if you have opted in, so it will ask
44:43you. It'll be like, "Hey,
44:45do you want to give us access to your
44:46email and your calendar? If you do, we
44:49can really customize your results to
44:51your preferences. We're going to know so
44:52much more about you. Uh do you want to
44:54turn on location history? If you turn
44:56that on, you're going to get much better
44:57results." So, Google's encouraging
44:59people to do that. I have turned it all
45:01on because I'm interested. This is what
45:03I'm I'm curious about. And so,
45:06uh it will actually be like, "Well, in
45:102017, you and Chad had an email talking
45:12about that taco place, so I'm going to
45:14put that one higher up in the results."
45:17100% uh Google's desperate for that data
45:20and they're desperate to personalize
45:23your results as much as they can
45:26because that makes better results. If
45:28they already know that I only like the
45:32highest
45:34filtered coffee, the beans were were
45:38carefully brought by hand by people and
45:41they were washed in a specific way. I'm
45:43very obsessive about my coffee. I I'm
45:45not going to drink pedestrian coffee
45:47from the gas station. I'm going to drink
45:48the very best coffee. They know that
45:50about me because I talk about it in my
45:52emails and I mention it here and I
45:54mention it there. So, now when I run a
45:56search for coffee shop near me, they're
45:58not going to recommend a gas station.
46:00They're going to recommend like these
46:02sort of higher-end craft coffee shops,
46:05right? So,
46:08yes, very personalized. And that's
46:10another reason why like optimizing for
46:12as maps, you're not optimizing to rank
46:15number one. There's no such thing. Rank
46:17number one for who, where, when? That is
46:19so different. Everybody has different
46:21number ones because things are very
46:23personalized. And they're going to be
46:24personalized regardless of whether
46:27you've given access to your email and
46:28your calendar. They're personalized just
46:30based on your history and where the
46:34places you've visited, the the places
46:36you've saved in maps, just the you the
46:38things that you have searched for. All
46:40that is personalized. And then
46:42they have very smart systems that if you
46:44don't give access to your email, they're
46:46like, "We don't really need it because
46:48we can infer a lot about you based on
46:51your search history." And then it also
46:53combines it with your Gemini search
46:55history. So, if you use Gemini and you
46:57run various searches, like it knows that
46:59you are looking for you you're you're
47:01let's say you're doing research about a
47:02specific bicycle you want to buy. I
47:04think Mike Blumenthal gives a great
47:06example. It's a high-end bicycle. Costs
47:08like $2,000, right?
47:10Immediately,
47:12Gemini [clears throat]
47:13and as maps will put you into that
47:15higher bracket. They'll be like, "This
47:17is the guy who can afford a $2,000 bike.
47:20We're going to recommend higher
47:22more expensive things to him, places to
47:24him. He He Clearly, he's not as
47:26budget-conscious as some of these other
47:27people." And so, and if you were if you
47:29were researching and then in your
47:30responses to you to things you would say
47:33things like, "Well, well, I want to keep
47:34it under 300 bucks, right?" Now, that
47:37tells Gemini something else about you.
47:38So, they can infer so much and it
47:40absolutely impacts your results. So,
47:42it's just a whole new world where
47:44everything is extremely personalized.
47:46>> How important is it that you have a
47:49fresh Google business profile as in like
47:52you have reviews from So, you have days
47:55ago and you are your post Yeah, you
47:59you're
48:01posting your your post your last post
48:03wasn't like 5 months ago, things like
48:06that.
48:07>> Um I would say it's important from the
48:09perspective that your most valuable
48:12thing you can do to rank in AI results
48:15is to rank in regular results and
48:17review velocity and recency is a very
48:20key factor for ranking in traditional
48:22results. So, it will have an impact on
48:24whether or not you get pulled in.
48:26Um but I do see businesses like in the
48:28AI results
48:29referencing businesses that haven't
48:31gotten a review in months. Like it
48:33doesn't seem to be as important there.
48:35Um but as a general rule, it's
48:37important. It's always important to stay
48:39on top of these things and keep things
48:41fresh.
48:42Um I actually have it in um
48:45another section that I wrote here, which
48:47is like freshness. I talk about
48:49quarterly updates. And I'm I want like
48:53in our own agency for our clients, we
48:55talk about quarterly updates. We want to
48:57update our key pages
49:00every 3 months with fresh FAQs. We're
49:03going to move some sections around.
49:04We're going to change things up. And it
49:05can't just be, you know, little tiny
49:07tweaks to the title tag and the
49:08headings. You should also change those
49:10when you do the refresh, but it's a 30%
49:13meaningful change on the page where the
49:15the content has roughly changed. That's
49:17enough to indicate freshness and it is a
49:20big factor. I think it's very valuable.
49:22It's worthwhile to do it. You're going
49:23to change the photos out. You're going
49:24to change the FAQs. You're going to move
49:25things around. You're going to rewrite
49:27some of these sections. Um that is a
49:29meaningful change I think is very
49:31useful. And I think the same methodology
49:33should roughly be applied to your Google
49:34Business Profile. I talked about weekly
49:37Google posts. I think that's very
49:39valuable. I also think it's useful to be
49:41uploading photos and videos roughly
49:44weekly. But it also kind of
49:48goes with a social strategy. You and I
49:49both know cuz we care about this and we
49:51spend a lot of time on social,
49:53the more
49:54content you put out there, the better
49:57you grow. And the same thing I would say
49:59for any small business thinking about
50:02this. So, on your social channels,
50:04you should be trying to post roughly
50:06every day. Well, take that same strategy
50:08and put it into your Google Business
50:09Profile, right? You If you're already
50:11creating that content, you can put it on
50:12your Google Business Profile. But,
50:16I would be careful to not use your
50:18Google Business Profile posts in the
50:21same way that you use your social posts.
50:23It's a totally different beast. You
50:24really want to be thinking about posts
50:26that convert, because they're not huge
50:28ranking factor, they're more conversion
50:30factor. And so, write about your
50:31services, share reasons why people
50:34should hire you, share like screenshots
50:36of like some of your best reviews,
50:37testimonials,
50:39uh case studies, like
50:41projects that you've worked on, you
50:42know, you know, a lot of businesses have
50:44like a portfolio section. Then those
50:46those little each individual thing could
50:48be highlighted as a as a Google post.
50:51Yeah.
50:53>> So, Ask Maps is still pretty pretty new,
50:56but is there any anything that local
50:58SEOs Is Is there any way for local SEOs
51:01to test and measure visibility with it?
51:03Or there's not really any tracking
51:06for
51:07>> Well, because it's so probabilistic,
51:10tracking is kind of a fool's errand
51:12anyways, cuz everyone's getting
51:13different results, right? So, what are
51:15you What are you tracking? But, I would
51:17say as also part of your new Ask Maps
51:21strategy is monitoring and reporting
51:23also on quarterly cadence. So, you can
51:26measure visibility. So, what you have to
51:28do is you have to run the prompts
51:29multiple times. And so,
51:31right now with Ask Maps, you have to do
51:33it manually yourself. So, you're going
51:35to go to Ask Maps, and you're going to
51:36ask, you know, pick like your top five
51:38questions that you would want to appear
51:40for people searching for services in
51:42your city,
51:44and then run them run them quarterly,
51:46and just see what the results are. And
51:47then run each one like three or four
51:49times and see how often you are
51:51appearing in the results. That's the way
51:53to track it, and so you're going to do
51:55it a little bit
51:56manually at the at this time.
52:00Yeah, that's how you would do it. But
52:01there's no real good as match rank
52:03tracker.
52:04>> What's your What's your take on prompt
52:06tracking in general?
52:08>> Same same. Like I think there is like
52:10you can get this like
52:15mention frequency, right? So, let's say
52:18your your prompt is like Let's Let's
52:21Let's go to our traditional SEO, like
52:22Denver plumbers. So, you type in Denver
52:24plumbers into
52:26any of the AIs, and they're going to
52:29they're going to know kind of roughly
52:31what you mean. Or you just Let's Let's
52:32Let's make it a prompt.
52:34Could you please recommend a good
52:35plumber for this service in my city? So,
52:37that's the prompt, right? So, you Let's
52:39say you're going to track that. You have
52:40to track it across every freaking
52:43AI,
52:44like ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude,
52:46Perplexity, whatever. And then you got
52:49to also track the different models. The
52:50different models Now you're tracking
52:52like 15 different things, and
52:55it's different every time. So, now you
52:57got to run 50 different things, and you
52:58got to run each one of those three,
53:00four, five times, and then you're going
53:03to
53:03by doing all that and aggregating all
53:05the data, how often did we appear? We
53:08appeared
53:09only 2% of the time. That's not good. Uh
53:11we appeared 80% of the time. Cuz you
53:13will see that the top businesses do get
53:16referenced at these very high rates.
53:18It's almost like no matter what you
53:19search, that incumbent, that huge
53:21business, they almost always get
53:23referenced, right? And so, that's the
53:25play. It's like, how do I become that
53:26business? And you typically become that
53:28business with all the things that we
53:29talked about on this episode, which is
53:32the optimization,
53:33review strategy, reviews and reviews
53:35reviews and reviews on a regular
53:36cadence, growing that review corpus, abs
53:39and then diversifying your reviews. That
53:41is one of the strongest things that you
53:43can do. And they all have They have to
53:44be good reviews, not lots of bad
53:45reviews.
53:46>> Yeah, so we've This is my last question.
53:48We've talked about We've covered a lot
53:50on this episode. And uh going back to
53:53like that small business owner who's
53:55like
53:56Look,
53:57this customer just came in. I got to
53:59unclog this toilet. I got so much to
54:01worry about. Just Darren Darren, please
54:03tell me what is the 20% that will get me
54:0680% of the results, the Pareto of it, or
54:09just the the five things that I should
54:11do that I should do this month.
54:14Yeah.
54:15>> Uh
54:16100% your Google Business Profile. Fill
54:18out all the services. Only it doesn't
54:19take that long. You're going to fill out
54:20every service. Make sure you have a page
54:22on your website for every service you
54:24offer. Add FAQs to every one of those.
54:27Reviews reviews reviews reviews. Ask
54:28every customer for a review.
54:30Pound those people for follow-ups. Get
54:33those reviews. Uh that If you did only
54:35those, you'd be getting 80% of the way
54:38there. So, it's like relevancy, reviews.
54:41Relevancy reviews. So, it's it's very
54:43traditional what I would have
54:44recommended five years ago before AI uh
54:46for local SEO. So, I would say those
54:50things uh will will do most of the work
54:53heavy lifting for you.
54:55>> One of the legends in local SEO, Darren
54:58in local SEO and SEO. Darren Shaw, thank
55:01you again. Everybody
55:04You So, so WhiteSpark is services and
55:07local SEO software.
55:09And
55:09>> You should use our local ranking grid
55:11software. It is like Okay, so people use
55:14like Local Falcon or whatever, and yeah,
55:16cool. Good job. You guys make good
55:17software. We make better software. It's
55:19really good. The local ranking grids at
55:22WhiteSpark is absolutely phenomenal. If
55:24you If you test it, you'll be like,
55:26"Wow, this is freaking awesome." So, I
55:28would encourage you to check out our
55:29local ranking grid software if I was to
55:31direct you to anything that WhiteSpark
55:33could help you with.
55:34>> What are the top What are the top things
55:36people do with WhiteSpark?
55:38>> Uh citations. So, we have a whole
55:40listing service and
55:42uh say it's a huge part of our business.
55:44So, people use us to audit and clean up
55:47their citations or build new citations.
55:50Um that's a big part of our business and
55:52then the local ranking grids is a huge
55:53part of our business as well. We have a
55:55local rank tracker that just does
55:56traditional organic rank tracking and
55:58that kind of stuff. I'd say those are
55:59the main main things. We do We do a
56:01bunch of other stuff, too. We work with
56:02multi-location businesses and we have a
56:04whole agency side of the business where
56:06we'll help uh businesses uh rank in
56:08Google and improve their AI search.
56:11Yep.
56:12>> Uh WhiteSpark is is also like you a
56:15legend in local SEO, really well-known.
56:18And uh do it It's always so great to
56:21have you on the show. Your first time on
56:24it was like I think it was like titled
56:26Local SEO Masterclass and that episode
56:29did so well and to this day I think
56:31maybe it was like from I don't know it
56:32was like from 7 8 9 months ago or
56:35something or a year ago. I'm still
56:37sending it to people to this day. People
56:40people that are asking me like uh how do
56:42I optimize Google Business Profile and
56:44I'm like watch this episode. Like you
56:46could probably just search Darren Shaw
56:47Local SEO Masterclass and you'll find
56:49it. And again yeah that was a And
56:52everything that you that you share is so
56:54straightforward. You're not
56:56overcomplicating things. It's
56:59You're Yeah, it's it's it's so much fun
57:01to listen to you.
57:02>> High praise. High praise from you,
57:04Edward. I appreciate that. Thanks so
57:05much.
57:06>> Appreciate you.
57:07Um all right. This is episode 1,137
57:12of the show.
57:12>> Insane.
57:13>> 1,137
57:16days in a row doing this podcast. Yeah.
57:19If you watch this on YouTube, thank you
57:21so much for watching. If you listened on
57:23Spotify or Apple Podcasts, thank you so
57:26much for listening. And I will talk to
57:28you again tomorrow.
57:31Bye now.

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