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How to Design Your Life in 1 Hour — Transcript

by Mel Robbins · 12,348 words · 1,924 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00It's time to design your life. Dave
0:02Evans and Bill Burnett [music] are the
0:04founders of the Life Design Lab at
0:07Stanford University, which has been
0:09[music] taught for almost 20 years and
0:10is now being taught at over 600
0:14universities. You can experience [music]
0:16more meaning and fulfillment in your
0:18life. So, grab your seat because class
0:21is in session.
0:22>> The best way to design your life is to
0:24recognize there is no getting you right.
0:27There is no right life. There's just
0:29getting it going. You have it in you to
0:31be something. You find your way by
0:33living into your life. You build your
0:36way forward. There is no knowing. There
0:38is only doing, learning, and growing.
0:41>> The job is not working, the marriage
0:42isn't working, there's something I'm
0:43really unhappy about. But that doesn't
0:45mean there aren't other parts of your
0:46life where more meaning and more
0:48aliveness are lurking latently waiting
0:51for you to discover them. Don't let
0:53those go.
0:54>> [music]
0:54>> There's more life in you than you think.
0:56There's more possibilities than you
0:57think. Just try something. Try something
1:00>> really small [music] and see if you can
1:01find that little piece of joy or that
1:04just like a pointer towards something
1:06that that wakes you up. We know you can
1:08do it.
1:08>> At the end of the day, what we're really
1:10doing,
1:12we're just giving people permission to
1:13live their lives. So, instead of working
1:15on the what is the meaning of life,
1:18we're here to give you tools to design
1:20more meaning in life.
1:25>> I am so excited for you to experience
1:27this episode. It is incredible. You're
1:30going to love these two professors, but
1:31first I have an ask of you. See, I just
1:34learned from my team that 53% of you
1:36that watch the Mel Robbins podcast here
1:38on YouTube are not subscribers. I have
1:41this goal that by the end of the year
1:42that number drops to 50%. So, I'm just
1:45talking 3% that 50% of the people that
1:48watch here on YouTube are subscribers.
1:50It's the best way that you can support
1:52me and the team. If the subscribe button
1:54is lit up, it means you're not a
1:56subscriber. Just hit subscribe. It's
1:57free, you're not going to miss a thing,
1:59and it tells us you love this podcast,
2:01you love the world-renowned experts that
2:03we're bringing you here for free, you
2:05love this as a resource. I really,
2:07really, really appreciate it. And you
2:09know what else I appreciate? You. I love
2:11that you spend your time watching
2:12something that's helping you create a
2:13more meaningful life, and that's exactly
2:15what this episode is going to do. So,
2:16let's get into it. Bill Burnett and Dave
2:19Evans, welcome to the Mel Robbins
2:21podcast.
2:22>> for having us. We're thrilled to be
2:23here.
2:23>> Yeah, this is fantastic.
2:25>> You two have been at the top of my list
2:28since I started this. I have been
2:30waiting for this moment. I hope
2:33[clears throat] you don't disappoint me.
2:34No, I'm just kidding.
2:35>> You got to call sooner. We got to come
2:36sooner.
2:39>> Oh my gosh.
2:40>> Okay.
2:40>> Here's where I want to start. How will
2:43my life be different if I take to heart
2:45everything that you're about to share
2:47with us today? And I apply it to my
2:49life.
2:50>> You're going to get freer.
2:52You're going to feel more agency in your
2:53life.
2:55You're going to realize you actually
2:56know how to find your way, and as you go
2:58along it, you can make meaning every
3:00day.
3:01>> You know, everybody's so busy, and
3:03there's so much going on.
3:05It's all You're going to learn that it's
3:07not about cramming more stuff here.
3:10It's about getting more out of what
3:12you've already got, and what you can,
3:14you know, what you can design for.
3:16Um and I think that helps people just
3:18relax, you know, and understand that
3:21they probably have enough.
3:23>> Bill, what do you think it is about the
3:25popularity of your both of your books
3:29and the course? What does all of this
3:31interest say to you about what
3:36we're searching for?
3:37>> Yeah, well, I mean, particularly amongst
3:39the students, and I've taught at
3:40Stanford, and I've taught all over all
3:41over the place, and we've got over 600
3:43schools now teaching the class. We
3:44trained 600 schools.
3:46With our students, it's it's really it's
3:48really clear, and it's gotten kind of
3:51worse lately, in the last 5 or six or
3:53seven years. Social media and other
3:54things. It's um, you know, will I find a
3:57good will I have a good life? Will I
3:59find a good job in it? You know, what
4:01what's what's I want meaning and
4:02purpose, but people tell me jobs aren't
4:04purposeful.
4:06Uh the Gallup poll says 70% of Americans
4:08are disengaged from their job. Is that
4:10the world I'm going into? It's going to
4:11be that bad. And so the for the students
4:13it's that kind of anxiety about how do I
4:15get started? And and I had been in
4:18office hours for students for years and
4:19years and years before Dave and I
4:20decided to put this together. And it
4:22seemed clear to me that designing the
4:24the the new thing in the world because
4:26I've been teaching designers to design
4:28iPhones and iPads and and websites and
4:31things for years. Designing the new
4:32thing in the world was just like
4:34designing the you. Like what am I going
4:36to be in my future? And so everybody had
4:39that problem. And then we started
4:40working with folks like in the you know,
4:41sort of mid-careers, 35, 45. And and
4:45they're having the same question. You
4:46know, it's like, gee, this isn't as much
4:48as wasn't as cool as I thought it would
4:50be or kind of done with this job or need
4:52to pivot. Now what? Now what? And I
4:54haven't thought about that in a long
4:55time and I don't have any framework for
4:57thinking about it. And I've been doing
4:58work with folks who are retiring, you
5:00know, in their 50s, 60s, and and older.
5:03And or folks that are you know, some of
5:05the empty nesters and they're like,
5:07well, geez, I organized my whole life my
5:08wife and I are empty nesters.
5:10Organized my whole life life around my
5:12kids.
5:13And now it's just me and my wife. Like
5:15do we even know each other? Do we do we
5:17like each other anymore? What are we
5:18going to do? So this question just keeps
5:21coming up and it's about
5:23will my will my life will my future be
5:27meaningful? Can I find something to do
5:28that is got some purpose in it? And
5:33and and a lot of the social a lot of the
5:35structures of that used to be well, you
5:37had a community. Everybody grew up in
5:38the same town. And so you knew where you
5:40fit in or maybe you had a faith
5:42community or a church or something. And
5:44a A of those communities have gone away.
5:47There's a huge loneliness factor. People
5:49really feel isolated and lonely. And
5:52things are changing so fast, right? That
5:54they they don't know they don't know
5:56where to turn
5:57for
5:59even a way to get started.
6:01>> You say in your number one New York
6:03Times best-selling book, Design Your
6:05Life,
6:06that the true way to design a life is to
6:09design your lives.
6:11What does that mean?
6:12>> We say all the time, all of us contain
6:15more aliveness,
6:17more personhood,
6:19than one lifetime permits you to live
6:20out. There's more than one of you in
6:22there.
6:23>> Mhm.
6:24>> Which is why, by the way, Maslow's idea
6:25about self-actualization through
6:27fulfillment is dead wrong, because he
6:29literally says in the 1943 paper, you
6:31achieve that by becoming all that one
6:34can be. No, you can't possibly be all
6:36that you can be, because you're way
6:37bigger than your own lifetime. Look,
6:39I've buried plenty of people. None of
6:40them were done.
6:41That's the good news.
6:42>> Oh, wow. I want to make sure they they
6:44they you didn't miss it. We've buried a
6:46lot of good people, and none of them
6:48were done.
6:49>> Yeah.
6:51I mean, I'm at an age where I know
6:53plenty of dead people closely,
6:56and
6:57they all left with a long to-do list.
6:59That's the good news. You're far bigger
7:03than your lifetime. So, the chance of
7:05you being bored or running out of things
7:07is zero if you're paying attention.
7:09Right. That's the good news.
7:11So,
7:12the best way to design your life is to
7:14recognize if there is no getting you
7:16right,
7:17there is no right life. There are lots
7:19of good lives. Let's go lean into them.
7:21And by the way, you don't know the
7:23future. You might have a good idea and
7:25implement it poorly. You might have an
7:26idea you thought was good, and it didn't
7:28work out very well. Whoops. Oh, I blew
7:30it. No, I learned my way forward, and
7:33I'm going to keep going.
7:34>> Yeah.
7:35>> There's no getting it right. There's
7:36just getting it going.
7:38>> Imagine this. Listen.
7:40Um we have a this linear accelerator at
7:42Stanford. It's not the big and it's not
7:44as big as it used to be cuz you we have
7:45bigger ones now, but this one's pretty
7:47good. Still runs.
7:48And I can put you I can put you in the
7:50tube and fire you to the end of the
7:52accelerator. It's 2 mi long and by the
7:54time you get to the end, you're going
7:5599.999
7:57% of speed of light, at which point you
7:59will experience the multiverse. And you
8:02can have as many lives as you want
8:03simultaneously.
8:05You could be the astronaut and the
8:06ballerina and the stay-at-home mom and
8:10and you'll know
8:11about all the universes at the same
8:13time. And then we ask the the I say on
8:15the count of three, 1 2 3, tell me how
8:17many lives you want.
8:19I go 1 2 3 and people go everywhere from
8:21one to really bored burned-out guy to
8:24infinity. Yeah, you know, you know,
8:25something. But on average,
8:27seven. Seven or eight is the average.
8:29Seven or eight. People want eight lives.
8:31And I go, well, that just proves our
8:33theory, there's more than one life in
8:35you. If you could have all those lives,
8:37wouldn't it be cool?
8:39>> And if you have seven lives worth of
8:40interest in you and you get one life,
8:43you're going to be 14% of your
8:45personhood.
8:46>> Right now.
8:47>> Oh, by the time you die.
8:48>> Wait, hold on a second.
8:49>> Yeah.
8:50>> Hold on because I imagine a world
8:53>> [laughter]
8:54>> where
8:56your one lifetime
8:57>> Yeah.
8:58>> could have seven different lives in it.
9:01Which means where you are right now in
9:04this particular chapter
9:06is just 14% of what you will experience.
9:10>> That's also true.
9:11>> Which means you have the opportunity if
9:14you change your mindset
9:15>> Yeah.
9:16>> to really design
9:20the next 14% section, whether it's from
9:24age 71 to 74, Dave, or I don't know how
9:27old you are, Bill. But I
9:29>> A little
9:29>> younger. We won't hold that against
9:31>> Starts at 6.
9:31>> We won't hold that against you.
9:33Um, but if you really think about it
9:35that way,
9:36>> Right.
9:37>> That means you could create whatever you
9:39wanted that was meaningful to you.
9:41>> Well, and particularly now, I tell my
9:42students, don't you hope 5 10 years from
9:44now you're doing a job that hasn't been
9:46even been invented yet? I mean, do you
9:48really want to constrain yourself to I'm
9:49just going to be this computer
9:51scientist, I'm just going to be this
9:52garbage or something? Because first of
9:54all, jobs are going to change, right?
9:55We're in the age of AI, so everything's
9:56going to be different. And and you're
9:58going to look at that and be terrified,
10:00or you can look at that and go, "Wow,
10:02there's going to be so many new things
10:04that show up. All I have to do is pay
10:05attention."
10:06>> Yeah.
10:07>> You know, as these jobs disappear and
10:09reappear. Like, when I got out of
10:11Stanford long years ago, when, you know,
10:13dinosaurs still roamed, you know, White
10:15Plaza,
10:16you had to learn drafting to be a
10:18designer. Drafting on a drafting table
10:20with a with a pencil.
10:22Nobody's done that in 40 years.
10:24And now I can just do something on my
10:25phone and print it on a 3D printer. It's
10:27amazing. And so, if you stay,
10:30in the growth mindset, if you stay
10:32curious,
10:34the next 10 or 15 years are going to be
10:36amazing for jobs, for careers, for
10:41possibilities. And
10:44and do, you know, I get get your boat in
10:46the water now, you know, learn some AI,
10:48get some get get figure out how to I
10:50think it's actually going to be a
10:51renaissance in creativity because it'll
10:53be possible for everyone
10:56to do a video, to do a drawing, to do
10:58anything, to write a song.
11:00This generation feels a little bit
11:02despondent.
11:03You know, there's a lot in going on in
11:05the in the news, and I think like this
11:07will be the first generation that
11:08doesn't have more than their parents.
11:10This will be the first generation that
11:11can't afford a home. This is the first
11:14gen The kids aren't getting married cuz
11:16they just don't see, you know, they
11:16don't see a future. And um I think the
11:19design mindset, um
11:22it's an inherently optimistic mindset.
11:24It's like, I can't make the
11:25>> We are off to a design.
11:27>> But I can make a better one, you know, I
11:28can make a better one than the one I've
11:30got.
11:31>> Could you speak to somebody in their 20s
11:33who is feeling that sense of
11:37discouragement, which frankly is
11:40justified?
11:41>> Yeah.
11:41>> Given some of the factual research about
11:44the cost of living and changes that are
11:46happening in the headlines, like
11:47>> Look, first of all, if you're 20
11:49>> Yes.
11:51>> be encouraged by the following fact.
11:54Your neocortex
11:56which is the part of your brain that
11:57allows you to have an executive function
11:58and actually allows you to have full
12:00empathy for other people isn't formed
12:02until 27 or 28, a little later in men,
12:05big surprise there. Uh
12:07so if you're 20, 21, 22
12:10you're not even here yet.
12:12We remind our graduating seniors, you're
12:14not broken, you're 22.
12:16Your 22-year-old job is not to figure it
12:19out because the you that's you ever
12:22maybe you're going to have a shot at
12:23figuring it out is six or eight years
12:24away from you. So your 20-year-old
12:27self's job is to give your 28-year-old
12:30self some interesting options.
12:32Now, that don't mean sit on the couch at
12:33mom and dad's house and wait for
12:34something to land in your lap. Get out
12:36there, start living, do things, learn
12:38your way forward, all that stuff we talk
12:39about in all our books. But if you're
12:4220-something
12:43it's going to get more interesting, so
12:45don't give up yet.
12:47Now, externally
12:49the macro situation we're all living in,
12:51I mean the the macro situation I was
12:52living in in 1976 when I graduated
12:55college is pretty radically different
12:56from what's going on right now 50 years
12:58later. Uh people are feeling powerless
13:01for a good reason because people with
13:03power are hanging on to it and
13:04exercising it pretty egregiously right
13:07now, personal point of view.
13:08That being said, okay.
13:11There are systems that are bigger than
13:12you. The question then says
13:15do you want to spend your time working
13:16on those systems?
13:17>> Yeah.
13:18>> Bill's got a son named Ben who's
13:20currently working, you know, in
13:21Congress. He's going to go directly
13:22after the problem. You know, I'm not
13:24going directly after the problem, I'm
13:26writing books about meaning making for
13:27everybody else in the meantime. I hope
13:29that leaves the campground a little
13:30better than I found it. So, find what
13:32you can do within the constraints of
13:34reality.
13:36Maybe it's different than your parents'
13:37generation. Maybe it's Who cares? That
13:39was then, this is now. What world are
13:42you in?
13:43What is available to you? How can we
13:46make the most of what is, not complain
13:48about what isn't? But, I get that it's
13:50hard. It is hard. It's hard.
13:52>> And I see this in a lots and lots of our
13:54students that they're willing they're
13:56they're willing to work really People
13:58say, "Oh, the Gen Zs don't want to work
13:59hard and they want to be pampered." It's
14:00like
14:01>> Not the ones we know.
14:02>> The ones I know, they'll do a startup,
14:03they'll work 100 hours a week if they
14:05believe in something. And so, you know,
14:08it's it's
14:10I'm I'm very optimistic about the
14:12generation coming up and the generation
14:14that's already out there. And they say,
14:16"Well, you know,
14:17what can I do?"
14:19>> And a lot of people feel like they don't
14:21even know what they want. But, there's
14:23this other exercise that you are
14:26world-famous for called the Odyssey
14:29Plan.
14:29>> Yep.
14:30>> Can you just walk the listener through a
14:31little bit cuz it can help you see other
14:34lives in yourself and how to live a
14:37meaningful life to lean into?
14:39>> So, so we know you have to have more
14:41ideas to get your best ideas.
14:43>> Mhm.
14:44>> And if you get stuck on the one idea,
14:45you're going to get stuck in a corner.
14:46So,
14:48if we're going to plan the future
14:49possibilities, we got to hear from more
14:50than one of you. So, three's kind of a
14:52magic number because it really gives you
14:54some freedom. Um and one of them is
14:56probably the life you're already in. The
14:57other one is, if you can't do that, what
14:58else would you do? And the third one,
15:00the wild card, if money were no object,
15:02you know, and nobody would laugh at you,
15:04what would you do? That's the wild card.
15:06Well, maybe I would open the Beanie Baby
15:08store. Um
15:09um or I'd start the button shop, you
15:11know,
15:12whatever the crazy thing is.
15:13The reason we ask people to have a crazy
15:15idea is not because the crazy idea is a
15:17good idea. It's because we need to train
15:20you to quiet the internal critic.
15:22>> Mhm.
15:22>> So, as soon as you say, well, you know,
15:24the 54-year-old woman says, I mean, I'm
15:26thinking about going back to medical
15:27school. I always wanted to do that. I
15:29don't think it's too late, but my
15:30friends have all crazy. What do you
15:32think?
15:33So her internal critic is being
15:35encouraged by all of her friends
15:36internal critic going, well, that's
15:38crazy. You can't do that.
15:40Um and that's the part of evolution that
15:42keeps you from being eaten by the
15:43saber-tooth tiger, you know, so there's
15:45a negative bias built into your brain
15:47evolutionarily lest you be eaten.
15:50>> [snorts]
15:50>> Um so you have to learn how to overcome
15:52that critic. So the Odyssey Plan helps
15:54you imagine there's more than one way
15:55you can live.
15:57And it helps train you to quiet your
15:58internal critic so you get the rest of
16:00your ideas back.
16:01>> So I want to make sure that you really
16:03got that. So the way that you help
16:06yourself imagine
16:08>> Yep.
16:08>> different possibilities in your life is
16:11through the Odyssey Planning, you ask
16:13yourself three questions.
16:14>> Right.
16:15>> What happens in my life if I change
16:16absolutely nothing? Where am I for five
16:19five years?
16:20>> And assuming it goes well.
16:21>> Yeah, well, I I I thank you for that.
16:23Like let's just assume it goes well.
16:25What happens in five years? What is my
16:26life like?
16:27>> Who am I?
16:27>> Who am I? Okay. Second one is all of
16:30this disappears.
16:31>> Yep, can't do that.
16:32>> Can't do that, but I got to pay my bills
16:34and
16:35got to have a plan B. Five years, what
16:37am I doing?
16:38>> Yep.
16:38>> What am I doing? And the third is
16:40money's no object.
16:41>> Yep, whatever you want.
16:42>> Whatever you want. Nobody's going to
16:43laugh.
16:44>> Yep.
16:44>> It's going to work out.
16:45>> Yep.
16:47>> What are you going to do?
16:48>> Yep.
16:48>> Now
16:49>> If you do those three things and we've
16:50done this with
16:51I mean
16:52>> tens of
16:53>> tens of thousands of people including
16:54people like, I'm not doing this, you
16:56know, and we give them 12 minutes.
16:58>> 12 minutes.
16:59>> 12 minutes to do this sometimes 15.
17:02>> Yeah, yeah.
17:02>> Um and
17:04absolutely
17:06I mean, 99.7%
17:08of the people do it just fine.
17:12I'm sit standing behind this 57-year-old
17:13chiropractor at the you know, we We
17:15going to have one of we had 600 people
17:16in the room. This one guy is sitting
17:18back from the room and just looking at
17:19the paper going
17:22So, I come up to him and say, "Um so,
17:24how's it going?" "Fine." I go, "You're
17:27You're just going to sit this one out?"
17:28He goes, "No, no, I'm I'm doing it." I
17:29go, "Well, you're not doing much. It's
17:31You got to pick up the pen." He goes,
17:32"Yeah, I'm a little stuck." I go, "Well,
17:35what do you do?" "I'm a chiropractor."
17:37"Okay, great. Do you like it?" "I like
17:38it a lot." "How long have you been doing
17:40that?" "27 years." "Okay. You want to
17:42die doing that?" He said, "What?" I
17:43said, "By the time you die, do you want
17:45to still be doing this?" He kind of
17:46goes, "Well, I don't think so."
17:48I said, "Oh, then at some point you're
17:50going to do something else." He goes,
17:52"Well, I guess so." I go, "And what
17:53might that be?" He goes, "Oh,
17:56I guess I am going to do something
17:57else." All right. I said, "Yes, you
17:58are."
18:00"Write that down." He goes, "Oh, okay."
18:02I mean, he had it in him. He just had to
18:04get over himself.
18:06>> I love this, and I'm going to encourage
18:07you as you're listening, unless you're
18:08driving a car, do this right now. Think
18:10about it. It like if you if nothing
18:12changes, it goes well, what does life
18:14look like 5 years? If everything
18:16disappears and you got to go to plan B,
18:18what does life look like in 5 years and
18:20what are you doing? What's the something
18:21else? And
18:23what is the crazy wild thing that
18:25you don't need money
18:27and nobody's going to laugh at you.
18:30What is that thing?
18:30>> They'll say, "That's cool." You know,
18:32and here the other thing in classes and
18:34lectures is a series of these these
18:35little workshop things and design
18:37exercises. So, then people get in threes
18:40and they read each other I I read my
18:42Odyssey plan to the other people and
18:43reach each one to listen regeneratively.
18:46And in tens and tens of thousands of
18:48these, the last question I ask when I'm
18:49debriefing the class, I say,
18:51"You know, those wild card plans that
18:53you heard from everybody in the class,
18:56of the listeners, how many of you think
18:59that person could actually do the wild
19:01card?"
19:01>> It's not nearly as crazy as they think.
19:03>> 100%.
19:03>> 100%.
19:04>> It's not as crazy as you think. And
19:06again, we're not trying to get people to
19:07quit their jobs and, you know, and join
19:09the circus. Join the circus. It's just
19:11that it's proof there's more to life in
19:13you than you think. There's more
19:14possibilities than you think when you
19:16think in threes, not binaries or ones.
19:19>> You you know, you light up like the
19:21Sitgo sign in Boston when you talk about
19:23this. What is your wild card?
19:26The last time you did this.
19:27>> artist
19:28>> Being a like a painter?
19:29>> I am a painter. I have been a painter.
19:31So, I went off to Stanford.
19:34Which is was even back when I did it was
19:35kind of expensive and um
19:37uh I wanted to be an art major and my
19:41dad was a pretty practical guy and he
19:43said, "Look,
19:44you want to be an art major, you got to
19:46come back and go to go to UMass, you
19:47know, UMass
19:49This was like UMass at the time was $300
19:51a year or something. He said, "I'm not
19:52paying for Stanford." But I found this
19:54design thing and that was pretty cool.
19:56Was it cuz our design major was a
19:57combination of art and engineering and
19:59psychology.
20:00But I did make a promise to that
20:0218-year-old kid that someday I'd be an
20:03artist. And so, I have a studio, I have
20:05a digital studio for music and one for
20:07painting and painting is my thing. And
20:09when I'm in the studio painting, that is
20:11flow. That is a constant state of
20:13absolute flow. I don't know if I'm any
20:14good, I don't care. Um Robert Henri is a
20:18famous uh painting school in New York in
20:20the in the 1920s.
20:22His phrase was the the goal isn't to
20:23make art.
20:25The goal is to be in that marvelous
20:26state of mind that makes art inevitable.
20:29>> Do you know that's the
20:32mission of how we do work here.
20:34>> Yeah.
20:34>> That quote.
20:35>> I cool. I I can tell.
20:37>> [laughter]
20:38>> So, that's on the door of my studio and
20:40to be in to be in that marvelous state
20:42of mind,
20:43um
20:44yeah, it's it's it's a very special
20:46place. And so, I promised myself that
20:48that will be my That is That is my wild
20:50card and that is coming up.
20:52>> Dave, what's yours?
20:54>> Well, there are a bunch of them. One
20:56probably I came very close to becoming
20:57an actor. Um
20:59but there's a particular version of
21:01performance art that I've long thought
21:03would be really fun to to
21:05which is to be a waiter in an extremely
21:07elite restaurant.
21:09>> Really?
21:09>> Yeah.
21:10Which I think is absolutely performance
21:12art.
21:13>> I mean, this is the first time I've ever
21:14heard this. So, tell me more.
21:16>> How to read how to read the room. I
21:17mean, so, um, you know, that people are
21:20coming in, their expectations are
21:21incredibly high, and this couple's
21:23having an argument, and that, you know,
21:24family is celebrating the kids'
21:26graduation, and and can you read can you
21:28read the room? Can you maximize this
21:30incredible experience cuz you go to a
21:31fine dining experience for a particular
21:34kind of celebration or particular kind
21:35of, you know, outing, and the right wait
21:38service catalyzes it beautifully, the
21:41wrong wait service wrecks it, and can I
21:44deliver the improv
21:46performance that has nine different
21:50stages at the same time called tables,
21:52playing nine different parts,
21:55having every one of those people have an
21:56amazing experience in real time. Can I
21:59pull that off?
21:59>> I mean, it it running a really a really
22:01amazing restaurant is a really really
22:03really hard thing. It's really hard.
22:04>> definitely not on my fantasy list. My
22:06fantasy list
22:06>> Not on the being in the kitchen. Too
22:07scary.
22:08>> Mine for sure is I want to write a
22:11fantasy trilogy.
22:12>> Mm. Oh, okay.
22:13>> Yes, all about angels that are among us,
22:16and the theme of are you born good or
22:18bad?
22:18>> where Mel is a fantasy trilogy writer?
22:20>> Right? Are you born good or bad? And I
22:22have this whole I've been thinking about
22:24it for 10 years.
22:26And I'm going to I I'm going to do
22:27>> Yeah, yeah.
22:28>> I'm going to do it like but it's it's
22:30always in there, and I love that you
22:33shared that. And for you listening or
22:35watching, I I want you to share your
22:40wild card.
22:41>> Yeah.
22:41>> Either with us or put it in the review
22:44or the comment of the show, or when you
22:46share this episode with somebody that
22:48you care about,
22:50be a little cryptic and say, "My wild
22:53card is this, and you'll know exactly
22:56what I mean when you listen to this."
22:57And then I want you to tell me yours.
22:59>> Yeah. You know, Mel, Bill and I have we
23:01would about the stuff we've been doing
23:02for a long time. We often say at the end
23:03of the day, what we're really doing
23:06we're just giving people permission to
23:08live their lives. It's really just give
23:10Yes, you can. You do know how to do
23:12this. You have it in you. You may not
23:14have it in you to be an Olympian, but
23:16you have it in you to be something.
23:18>> And then because right after the Odyssey
23:19plans comes prototyping, what on your
23:22plan do you want to learn about? And
23:23then they prototype and they
23:24>> Oh, that's the next step.
23:25>> They come back
23:25>> That's the next step, yeah.
23:26>> the next class and they go, "You know,
23:29did you know you can actually make a
23:31living in the circus?" I had one student
23:33who was a gymnast at Stanford and she
23:36wanted to go to medical school. Her
23:37parents wanted her to go to medical
23:38school. She cut a deal.
23:40Can I Can I do something before I go to
23:42medical school? She's now been Cirque du
23:44Soleil in China.
23:46And she is a circus clown,
23:49which was on her Odyssey plan
23:50>> And she's having a great time.
23:52>> But
23:53people
23:55have a hard time even imagining
23:56something so wild it's not possible.
23:59>> And when they talk about plan one, it's
24:00kind of like, "Yeah, well, so I'm going
24:02to just keep being an accountant and I'm
24:03going to do this thing and you know, I'm
24:05pretty good at it and la la la." But
24:06when they talk about their wild card,
24:08they're like, "You know, I really love
24:11diving and underwater photography and
24:13I'm wondering if I could be a a dive
24:15instructor who does photography, maybe
24:16for National Geographic." And I say,
24:18"Well, I happen to know a guy who
24:19started a company building underwater
24:21cameras. Would you like to have a
24:22prototype interview?" And they're like,
24:24"Really?" I go, "Yeah."
24:27>> When you know that you don't know what
24:29you're doing.
24:30Right? It's what The competence of You
24:32have to be competent at your
24:33incompetence. You have to be good at
24:35knowing when you don't know what you're
24:36doing called the future I haven't
24:38figured out yet.
24:38>> Yes.
24:39>> So, you make a move, then learn
24:40something, make a move, learn something,
24:41then go back, you know. So, that that
24:44keep making moves until you finally
24:46iterate your way forward through
24:47prototyping. That's what we teach. Life
24:49is a series of incremental prototypes.
24:52You find your way by living into your
24:55life. You build your way forward, we
24:57keep saying. There is no knowing. There
25:00is only doing, learning, and growing.
25:02>> So, I know I'm going to get a ton of
25:03questions about this. Can you guys give
25:06a couple examples of what actually a
25:09prototype looks like?
25:11>> Clowning. Clowning's actually a thing.
25:13And this Is it the Shriners? Is it
25:14There's there's some outfit where they
25:16They're trained members, and they do
25:18clowning in hospitals to visit kids.
25:21Oh, so you could probably call the local
25:23hospitals, and does anybody do clowning
25:25with the children? Oh, great. Do they
25:27have a training for that? So, you could
25:29go You know, I Trust me, there's
25:31somebody who will train you to be a
25:32clown.
25:34Do a little bit of clowning that you
25:35could go into the children's ward and
25:37and try cheering some And maybe just
25:39ride along with them, watch them, you
25:40know, I mean, there are ways to get at
25:42the thing that you think you're thinking
25:44about.
25:46>> So, you're a 20-something.
25:48You see your friends living in Montana.
25:50Should I live in New York? Should I go
25:51to Montana? Should I go into I banking?
25:53Should I be a ski bum? Like I don't know
25:55what to do with my
25:57You're 28. What what like What's a an
25:59example of a prototype? Here's another
26:01one. A
26:03stay-at-home mom, the kids are gone. Now
26:05it's my turn.
26:07>> Right.
26:07>> What am I doing? Am I going back to
26:09nursing school? Am I finishing my
26:10degree? Like
26:12Am I writing that novel I'm thinking
26:14about? Am I writing that novel that I'm
26:15thinking about? Like what does that mean
26:17in terms of just a couple specific
26:19things that you've seen people do to
26:21give the person listening an idea?
26:22>> I'm sitting with a 57-year-old suddenly
26:25empty-nester mom who left a couple of
26:27things behind, doesn't know what to do.
26:28Great. So, let's quickly come up with
26:30your list of things that might be at all
26:32interesting.
26:33>> Okay.
26:34>> Oh, yeah. I'm thinking about being a ski
26:35bum. I'm thinking about going back to
26:37medical school. I actually talked to a
26:3854-year-old about that. You know, and
26:39I'm thinking about being a novelist.
26:41Okay, fine.
26:42Um now, maybe I should Oh, I'm going to
26:44go back and and get a master's degree in
26:46creative writing and spend 3 years and
26:47$30,000 and then write one blog, and I
26:50didn't like it that much. Terrible idea.
26:52That's jumping way off the cliff. So,
26:53the prototype I do would say talk to
26:55people, try stuff.
26:57So, go out and have a bunch of narrative
26:59conversations, not with oh, you're a
27:00novelist and how much do you make and
27:02what
27:03did you school did you go to? Those are
27:04transactional conversations, not
27:07narrative conversations. Like, what's it
27:08like to be you and what do you enjoy and
27:10what do you not enjoy? And tell me all
27:12about that. And I have these narrative
27:13conversations with people in the world
27:15I'm thinking about being in.
27:17Which is what Dan Gilbert at Harvard uh
27:19Graduate School would say is
27:21surrogation, not simulation. Quit
27:23reading about it, go talk to people
27:24about it because you're a person and
27:26when you encounter a person who tells
27:28that story, that story becomes real.
27:30You'll actually learn more from persons
27:32in the world you're thinking about than
27:34reading about it.
27:35>> You'll feel something.
27:36>> something, you'll experience something.
27:37And then maybe some of them can get you
27:39a ride along and a visit. You can you
27:41can do some experimentations, try stuff
27:43long before you over commit and then
27:45eventually after enough iterations
27:47you'll make a better decision.
27:49>> You know what's interesting? Cuz I want
27:50to build on this. Cuz so many people
27:52probably say to you, well, I have no
27:53idea.
27:54I have no idea what I want to do. And I
27:56>> That's almost never true.
27:57>> I agree with you. And if you're saying
28:00that right now, like I don't know what
28:02my life's about, I don't know what I
28:03like. I I love this 14% thing and this
28:07idea and the invitation you gave us to
28:09step into a time machine accelerator
28:11thingy. And the average person says,
28:14I've imagined eight lives.
28:15>> Yeah.
28:16>> So, you're in one of them.
28:17>> Right.
28:17>> You've got another seven.
28:18>> Yep.
28:19>> What are the other seven lives you would
28:21imagine in the fantasy of your mind? And
28:24those are the things to then lean into
28:26and get curious about, correct?
28:27>> I wanted to be a dive instructor. I love
28:29diving, but I don't do enough of that. I
28:30always wanted to be a photographer. But
28:32you can prototype any of these things
28:34and find like, for instance, I want
28:36I I I want to have a podcast. Okay,
28:38before you
28:39jump into a podcast, try writing, you
28:42know, a 2,000-word essay every day for
28:44five days.
28:45See how that feels. Oh, that was really
28:47hard. It was really lonely. Dave hates
28:48writing cuz it's lonely. I'm the
28:50introvert, he's the extrovert. I love
28:52sitting in a room talking to myself all
28:53day long. It's wonderful. And he can't
28:55stand it. Um so, like try the trying
28:58stuff and the talking to people You talk
29:00to writers, they'll say writing is very
29:01lonely.
29:02If you can't handle that,
29:04it's probably not It's not going to be a
29:05good thing for you.
29:06And you wouldn't know that unless you
29:08talked to somebody who does it. So, you
29:10can have these little It's all It's
29:11almost like time travel. You can have a
29:13little experience of talking to somebody
29:15who's the person you think you might
29:16want to be. They're already 10 years
29:17down the road doing it.
29:19And that experience that but that
29:21conversation is so much more powerful
29:22than Oh, I'm going to look up on the on
29:24you know, on Google how many you know,
29:27how many writing hacks are there, you
29:29know, when when did the five most famous
29:31writers write, you know, they wrote in
29:33the morning, they wrote in the
29:34afternoon. There's no pattern to any of
29:35that stuff. So, uh you can prototype
29:38anything. And And the lack of the lack
29:40of curiosity isn't really true. I I've
29:43got I have no idea. So, really have no
29:45ideas. Okay, you know, what did you
29:48What's the last show you watched that
29:49you thought that was interesting?
29:51Pick something simple.
29:53I'm not talking about the thing you'll
29:54do for the rest of your life. We're
29:55talking about What do you want to do
29:56next week?
29:57>> So, as all of this opens up for somebody
30:00and they have this sense of what might
30:03create more meaning, right? And I want
30:06to get curious. I want to prototype. I
30:09The fear failure and the fear of what
30:11other people are going to think probably
30:13comes in like a sledgehammer. What do
30:15you say to people in your classes when
30:18they get this moment of clarity and then
30:20it's like
30:22>> Start really small.
30:24I mean, get cut yourself some slack for
30:25God's sake. I mean, um we talk about
30:27failure immunity because the purpose of
30:29a prototype is to learn something, not
30:30to succeed. We don't prototype to make
30:32sure, oh, will it work? No. Just
30:35what do I need to know more about? I'm
30:37I'm going to go right along, you know,
30:39and and be an auditor of the children's
30:42clowns, you know, at the hospital.
30:45You know, and I might say the wrong
30:46thing. I mean, did I blow it? No, no,
30:48no. I'm just I'm just trying to learn
30:49what it's like here.
30:51So, first of all, have your prototypes
30:53not bet the farm.
30:55You know, like maybe my maybe what I'll
30:57do is I'll I'll, you know,
31:00I'll go to Chez Panisse in Berkeley, you
31:01know, one of the most expensive
31:02restaurants in all of California and see
31:04if cuz I know a friend who's really
31:06close friends with Alice Waters and she
31:07could probably get me in as the waiter.
31:09So, my first night as a waiter is in
31:11front of Alice Waters at Chez Panisse.
31:12That is not a prototype. That's a
31:14performance. So, cut yourself some
31:16slack.
31:17>> Likely to fail.
31:17>> And I'm likely to fail.
31:18>> I probably wouldn't even want to serve
31:20the bread there. So, like that's
31:21>> so [clears throat] make it easy, make it
31:23small where almost nothing is at stake.
31:26Um
31:27of which there are plenty of
31:27opportunities. Give yourself a break.
31:29Make it interesting. Make it fun.
31:32Cut it down small. Don't shoot too high.
31:35>> We're we're really big on set the bar
31:37low. You know, set the bar low and clear
31:39it. I mean, you have like about this.
31:40This is This is the whole psychology of
31:42behavior change. You're not going to
31:44change if you make something so big. You
31:45know, so this is the new year and people
31:48have made their resolutions. I'm going
31:49to run a marathon this year. It's like,
31:50well, probably unless you break that
31:52into very, very small steps, it's not
31:54going to happen. And so, we really we
31:57really go for super simple things. Uh
32:00and that's and that builds up your
32:01confidence, too. You try something and
32:03you, you know, try some prototypes, you
32:04learn some stuff, you get a little more
32:06confident. Eventually, you know, when
32:08you flip into these this designers
32:10mindset, you realize, "Oh, I can
32:11prototype anything."
32:13There's really no failure here. You
32:15know, failure is just just a rule I made
32:17up in my head. And once I get rid of
32:19that rule, I'm I'm much more free. But,
32:22yeah, fear drives a lot of people to to
32:24not try.
32:25>> Yeah. Is it ever too late? I think
32:26there's a big fear that it's too late.
32:28I've blown it too much.
32:29>> Ah, it's never No, it's never too late.
32:31No, it's never too late.
32:33>> I mean, the
32:34coming out of the talk, a 54-year-old
32:35woman has asked me about, you know, am I
32:37crazy to go to medical school?
32:40I said, "Look, let's let's just run the
32:41numbers really quickly. Okay?
32:44Based on the DNA of the gene pool you
32:45were born into, what's the likelihood of
32:48when you're going to die?" She kind of
32:49goes, "I'm probably going to make it to
32:50my late 80s, early 90s." I go, "Great.
32:52If you Let's say you make it healthy to
32:5385, 88, how long do you want to work?"
32:55"Well, probably at 80." I said, "Okay,
32:58great. So, we got 26 years to go.
33:01>> [laughter]
33:02>> And, you know, so you apply to a
33:04probably going to spend a year going to,
33:06you know, a medical school application
33:08preparatory program, you know, called a
33:10post-bac program. Spend a year on that.
33:12Spend a year trying to get in, that's
33:13two. Four years to get through medical
33:15school, now you're in residency. By the
33:16way, 90% of medicine is done by
33:18residents, so you're already a doctor.
33:20You're now practicing medicine six years
33:22into the program. Eventually, let's you
33:24finish your specialty, you know, we're
33:25now eight years into the program. That
33:27puts you at 64. You got 11 You got 11 to
33:3112 years to go before even backing off,
33:33maybe 15. Cut out the crap of all this
33:36conventional thinking and just ask
33:39yourself the question, what's happening?
33:41What might it be? I mean, I'm about to
33:43get married for the third time.
33:46Cuz, you know, my wife died on me, and
33:48which was not the plan. And, a lot of my
33:50friends say to me, they say, like, "Oh,
33:51it's too hard. It's too much work. I
33:53don't Do you want to You really want to
33:54go through that again?" I go, "Sure."
33:57Um, this is terrific. Um, it's a ton of
34:00work. It's an absolute mountain of work,
34:02you know? But, I mean, what what else am
34:04I doing?
34:05>> When you go to a funeral,
34:06it's very interesting.
34:08>> Oh, yeah.
34:09>> The second you walk out of the funeral,
34:12you feel more alive, and you have more
34:16urgency
34:17>> Yeah.
34:17>> to do what you came here to do, Dave and
34:20Bill. You said, "We want to give people
34:23permission
34:24>> Yeah.
34:24>> to live their lives."
34:26And,
34:27especially right now when the world
34:29feels so overwhelming and people are
34:31exhausted and there are very big
34:32problems. Like it it is easy to go it
34:36doesn't matter. And when you start to do
34:38the math, whether you're telling me that
34:41you have seven different lives you could
34:42do, you're going to die with on
34:44your to-do list and things you never
34:45achieved. You're 50, so what? You got 40
34:48You're 70, you probably got 20 more
34:50years left. What are you doing?
34:52>> Yeah. Look, my next milestone is death.
34:54I haven't got time to waste.
34:56>> [laughter]
34:57>> You know,
34:58but Dave and I've been in wonderful
35:00communities. I've been in this group of
35:01men a men's group for 32 years cuz I
35:04started when my son got born and I
35:06needed to figure out how to raise a son.
35:08Um and we end up we've been around long
35:10enough that we've had some guys die and
35:12we've gone to their funerals and said
35:14wonderful things about them. And then we
35:15decided, why don't we wait till we die
35:17before we said say wonderful things
35:19about each other? So we have a a
35:20protocol in our men's group where you
35:21can say, "I'm going to die next week.
35:22I'd like everybody to write a eulogy."
35:25And then you come in and then and then
35:27you, you know, lay there quietly and you
35:29listen to people say
35:31the most wonderful things about you,
35:33right? Because eulogies are not about
35:35Oh, well, you know, "Dave had a big
35:37to-do list. He crossed off lots of
35:38things. His PowerPoints were very
35:39[laughter] well done and he always got
35:41his budgets in on time." Nobody says
35:42that.
35:44They say what a good man he was, a
35:45wonderful husband, he was a great
35:46father. So, um do that. Have your
35:49friends write your eulogy
35:51and find out what you really mean to
35:53people. It's amazing.
35:56>> You could also you do that exercise
36:00thinking about what you hope or wish
36:04is being said about how you lived your
36:05life.
36:05>> Exactly.
36:06>> Cuz what you don't want it to be is
36:09"Well, he got to be 70 and had the love
36:11of his life and just turned down the
36:13opportunity to get married again and do
36:15it. And she wanted to go to medical
36:17school but talked herself out of it for
36:1830 years."
36:19>> Right.
36:19>> No, I'm in
36:20a small group of guys for 51 years,
36:23formed in 1974, called TD3, Tom and
36:25Three Daves. I'm the founding Dave.
36:27Um, and you know, we just went through
36:30this exercise of moving into our 70s.
36:34And so we said, "Okay, let's all, first
36:36of all, announce what age we think we're
36:37going to die at. And then write the
36:39eulogy you hope will be true by then.
36:43And make sure that the eulogy includes
36:45things that aren't true yet."
36:49So you can live aspirationally into
36:50that. Yeah. Um, and
36:53we really do believe that a human being
36:55is a becoming,
36:56and that becoming should be a non-stop
36:59program.
37:01Don't quit early.
37:03Now, you might have some constraints
37:05physically, circumstantially, or
37:07otherwise. But there's always more you
37:09can become into. So which questions do
37:12you want to live into?
37:13And by the way, preferably, it does
37:15really help to have some people around
37:17that you're asking these questions with.
37:18>> Yeah. So how old did you say you were
37:20going to be when you died? And what was
37:22the thing that you haven't done yet that
37:24was on the list?
37:25>> My life 85. I'm guessing I'll make it to
37:2785.
37:27>> I'd like you to live a little longer.
37:29>> Well, I yeah, I'm thinking I may work
37:31for an extension to the contract. But
37:32nevertheless, I I said at the time I
37:34said 85.
37:37And the way I put what I'm aspiring to
37:38was when I get to heaven, I want to be
37:41recognized as somebody who's already
37:42been there.
37:43Meaning I've already stepped into
37:45profound acceptance and universal love
37:48and welcome to all persons at all times.
37:50I want to look like I'm already doing
37:52that by the time I get there.
37:53>> [clears throat]
37:53>> I think there's a huge power, and you
37:55know this based on the way the brain
37:57works, in really
37:59embracing the truth of everything that
38:01you just said in terms of giving
38:02yourself permission to not just live a
38:05meaningful life now and find moments of
38:07meaning, but to really
38:10think about what you want to accomplish
38:15by the end. And I'm thinking about this
38:17text.
38:17Yeah, who do you want to become? I'm
38:18thinking about my mother-in-law who's
38:2089.
38:22I think she's 89. She 88? I don't know,
38:23but she's she texted in the family-wide
38:26group chat.
38:27>> No.
38:28>> I'm going to be here another 10 years.
38:30>> Okay.
38:31>> Because I want to see all the grandkids
38:32get married, if they choose to get
38:33married.
38:34>> Right.
38:35>> And
38:36I was like, "Wow."
38:37>> She's in the game.
38:38>> She's in the game.
38:39>> Yeah.
38:40>> She knows what she's doing.
38:41>> Yeah.
38:41>> And I think that's there's an invitation
38:44to all of us. And so, I love that
38:45construct of what age do you think
38:47you're dying and what are all the things
38:49that you want to accomplish that you
38:51haven't done yet. And
38:53what do you hope?
38:54>> Yeah. The specific tool in the book for
38:56that is called the focus question. We
38:58actually encourage you to come up with
39:01the focus question, what focuses
39:04your attention on what you're trying to
39:06become at this particular moment or
39:08season of your life. So, can you write
39:10down the question that not like will I
39:12have enough money to retire by then?
39:14Those are transactional questions, but
39:15you know,
39:17a year from now, two years from now,
39:18three years from now,
39:20if you live well into the invitation to
39:23become more yourself,
39:25what question do you hope to be able to
39:27answer
39:29by the end of the next year two or three
39:30that you're thinking about. So, in my
39:31case it was, you know,
39:33how will I learn
39:36to live out of get to, not got to?
39:39Cuz I think that's a more generous
39:41position that might allow me to hit
39:43heaven in the right part of you. Um and
39:45so, that's the focus question I've got.
39:47How do I live deeply into get to, not
39:49got to? Uh that's my focus question for
39:51now. And so, we And preferably having
39:53some people around you that can help you
39:54with that question.
39:55>> I have And by the way, I don't think
39:56anybody writing their eulogy or those
39:59questions says, "I wish I had more I
40:01think I want to have more money by the
40:02time I'm X." Because you get to the
40:05second half of life, assuming that money
40:07is enough and happy if not, but or
40:10whatever, but it's hardly you you start
40:13to realize that those kinds of
40:15transactional accomplishments, while
40:16important and interesting ways of
40:18keeping score,
40:20um aren't the things that are going to
40:22make you happy
40:24when you
40:24when you Yeah, I don't know when you
40:26>> [laughter]
40:27>> when you get to that point. So, I think
40:29I you know, it's I really encourage um
40:33the folks who are you know, thinking
40:34about this stuff, think think a little,
40:37you know, give yourself a little bit of
40:38time, turn off the phone and give
40:40yourself a little bit of time to think
40:41about you know, what what would I hope
40:43people say about me?
40:45>> Mhm.
40:46>> And and how do I become the person
40:49that deserves them to say that?
40:52>> Mhm.
40:52>> And
40:54that stuff comes up. And this is it
40:56could be connected to your wild card. It
40:58could be just connected to you know,
41:00where you are in your journey. I bet
41:02stuff comes up.
41:04Where you you know, a lot of times when
41:05I do these exercises because you know,
41:07one of the first things I said to Dave
41:08when we set this up is you know, we got
41:10to do everything we put in the books
41:11otherwise we're the biggest hypocrites
41:12on the planet. So, we do all this stuff.
41:14And every once in a while I do this
41:15stuff, I lean back and I go, oh wow,
41:17where did that come from? You know,
41:19that's a good like that's that's an
41:21idea. Where did that come from? And you
41:23know, it came from some part of me you
41:24know, just needed a little bit of quiet
41:27to you know, to find its voice. So, I
41:30hope people can do that cuz it's really
41:32>> Yeah, if you're paying attention, life
41:33is full of invitations.
41:35>> Mhm.
41:36>> I think life is full of invitations to
41:39your becoming self if you're paying
41:41attention.
41:42>> Yeah, you said turn off the phone and
41:43take the time for the person that says,
41:46well, I I just can't. I'm overwhelmed. I
41:48have no time. What do you want to say
41:49directly to them, Bill?
41:51>> Um I'll bet if I looked at your phone
41:53and I typed on it, it would tell me how
41:54much time you spend on Instagram, how
41:56much time you spend on Tik Tok, how much
41:58time you spend scrolling mindlessly, you
42:00know, through reels or short videos on
42:04YouTube. I do it, too. And every once in
42:06a while I look at that and go, I can't
42:07believe I spent an hour on this crap.
42:09So, give yourself a power a pause.
42:12And you don't look at the phone and
42:14it'll tell you how much time you spent
42:15just doom scrolling through stuff. And I
42:18and I always ask people
42:20tell me the last video you watched.
42:22Tell me the last video you watched. They
42:23go, "I don't know." Tell me the last
42:25video you watched. "I don't know."
42:26Tell me the last, you know, text you
42:27read or the last thing you read on on X.
42:30"I don't know." I said, "So, if you're
42:32doing it and you can't even remember
42:34what it was,
42:36would you like to reallocate that time
42:37to something more interesting?"
42:39I'm only like talking about 20 minutes
42:41here. Can you give me 20 minutes?
42:43And that that you would have spent cuz I
42:46I do the same thing. You know,
42:47and and and just
42:50be present with yourself.
42:53And see what comes up.
42:57You know, I'm standing in front of a big
42:58blank canvas and I'm going, "Oh, the
43:00world really needs an older white guy
43:02painter cuz we need more painters in the
43:04world." And I'm going to paint something
43:06and no one's going to care. So, I go
43:08through all that stuff in my head. And
43:10then if it quiet down for a little while
43:11and I, you know,
43:13just stare at this thing,
43:16I get an idea.
43:17Then I get another idea. Then I get
43:18another idea. Pretty soon
43:20the painting is painting itself and
43:22everything is is wonderful. But boy,
43:24everybody's got that moment where
43:25they're like, "Oh, no.
43:27This isn't going to work or this is
43:28stupid or this is useless."
43:31I have that all the time.
43:32>> Well,
43:33that's the moment.
43:34>> Yeah.
43:35>> That's what it all comes down to.
43:36>> Yeah. Yeah.
43:36>> Cuz you can stay there
43:38or you can lean in.
43:40>> Pick up a brush.
43:40>> you've taught us about.
43:41>> Pick up a brush and put something on the
43:43canvas.
43:44>> And again, set the bar low. Like, "Oh, I
43:46really need to start meditating so I
43:47should do 20 minutes every morning
43:49between 6:00 and 6:20. I got to get up
43:50at 5:30, you know, and eat some really
43:53pure yogurt first." You know, like,
43:54"Whoa, dude.
43:56Lighten up." Um
43:59>> 5 minutes. Can you give me
44:00>> How about like we've got a thing called
44:01the seventh day savoring. Once a week
44:03sit down and pick a moment during the
44:04week when you felt deeply alive, go back
44:06and savor it because you didn't have
44:08time to fully experience it in real
44:09time.
44:11You know, you could just go back there
44:12and like linger over it. I mean, put put
44:15that Let it sit on your tongue and
44:17really get the most out of it. Okay,
44:18it's 5 minutes a week.
44:22And your prototype is, I'll do that
44:23twice.
44:25Okay, so two 5 minutes on a Sunday
44:27afternoon, and then ask the question,
44:29was it worth it? Did I enjoy that? Well,
44:31I'll do a little bit more. How did I
44:33It's okay. You don't have to jump over
44:35your head.
44:37If you're moving, you're You know,
44:38that's moving toward a meaning-making
44:40practice. So, you're designing your way
44:43forward.
44:44>> I want to read to you from your
44:47blockbuster best-seller.
44:50How to live a meaningful life.
44:52And this is page eight.
44:55All of us, this longing for more
44:57meaning, maybe one of the most universal
45:00things that all humans want. Lives that
45:02are generative and joyful, fulfilling,
45:05and connected. Lives that are about more
45:08than just getting through each day,
45:09paying the bills, maybe taking a
45:11vacation now and then.
45:13And too many people are finding too few
45:15an answer for how to get what their
45:17hearts keep telling them they were made
45:20for.
45:21The meaning and purpose that they need.
45:24The quest for meaning can seem too big
45:26and too overwhelming.
45:28But here's the thing.
45:30There is something you can do.
45:33Really actually do. To experience a more
45:36meaningful life today.
45:39Right now. In this exact moment.
45:43So, Dave.
45:44>> Yes.
45:45>> What is that one thing?
45:47>> Well, the first thing is you got to
45:49reframe. You know, in design we do
45:50problem finding before we do problem
45:52solving. One of the reasons people fail
45:54is they're working on the wrong thing.
45:56>> Problem finding
45:57>> Finding precedes problem solving.
46:00>> Okay.
46:01>> So, the question, oh, how do I live a
46:03more meaningful life?" usually frames
46:05itself as what is the meaning of my
46:07life. I have not yet found my purpose.
46:10What is the one true thing that really
46:11is what I'm here to do?
46:13>> [snorts]
46:14>> And we think those are all the wrong
46:15question.
46:16Cuz they all treat you as a transaction,
46:18as a problem to be solved for which
46:20there is a correct answer.
46:21>> Okay.
46:22>> So, instead of working on the what is
46:25the meaning of life, we're here to give
46:27you tools to design more meaning in
46:30life.
46:31>> Okay, I want to make sure the person
46:32listening got this.
46:33>> Yeah.
46:34>> One of the reasons why
46:36I get stuck, and you get stuck, and the
46:38people that you love get stuck is number
46:40one, we're asking the wrong question,
46:41which is how do I find meaning
46:42>> to life. The ultimate is this really it?
46:46Have I found it? No, you haven't found
46:49it because you're going to keep growing,
46:50and it's going to change. So, stop
46:52worrying about it, and let's work on
46:54this.
46:55>> Well, what I love about it is and you
46:57know, look, this is why you guys are
46:58brilliant, okay? Just going to say it.
47:00It's because as I've been sitting here
47:02going, you know, I got to find it, that
47:04that statement in and of itself says
47:07it's out there.
47:08>> Right.
47:09>> How do I create more meaning right here?
47:12>> Yes. So, don't wait for the ultimate
47:14answer. No, by the way, we have both, in
47:16different ways, have worked on the big
47:18questions for a long time, and we think
47:20the big questions really matter. I'm not
47:21saying never think about that. What I'm
47:23saying is don't defer life is good and
47:26worthwhile until you find those answers.
47:30What you can do is start living into the
47:32moment that you're in. So, the first
47:33reframe is
47:35how do I find more meaning now?
47:37And then the second thing is, and where
47:38might I find it?
47:40>> Well, I'm glad you said there was a
47:41second question. Cuz here's the thing.
47:43As somebody who's really screwed up her
47:44life for large stretches of it, there
47:47are times if you would ask you would
47:49instructed me, Mel, the answer is to
47:52find more meaning where you are right
47:54now. You know what I I have said?
47:55Probably F you because I don't like
47:57where I am right now and there is
47:59nothing meaningful about this which is
48:00why I want something else. Do you know
48:02what I mean?
48:03>> Mhm.
48:03>> So, what do you say to the person that's
48:05feeling that right? Like there is no way
48:07to find meaning
48:09where I am right now.
48:11>> That's probably because the thing that's
48:13not working
48:15there's something about the job is not
48:16working, the marriage isn't working,
48:18there's something I'm really unhappy
48:19about.
48:20>> Yes.
48:20>> I'm not getting what I wanted from this
48:22particular aspect of my life.
48:24And so then you say, "Well, find more
48:25meaning you're trying to tell me how to
48:27make a bad thing good." This is the old
48:29"Well, when life gives you a lemons make
48:30lemonade." Okay, the problem with the
48:32lemonade idea is let's take a bad thing
48:35and make a good thing out of it.
48:37No, no, no, no. So, they say, "Okay,
48:38there's something that's not working and
48:39I get that but that doesn't mean there
48:41aren't other parts of your life where
48:42more meaning and more aliveness are
48:45lurking latently waiting for you to
48:47discover them. Don't let those go."
48:49>> Mhm.
48:50>> Now, meanwhile, we might want to have
48:51some projects to maybe your job is a bad
48:54situation. We
48:55got asked over and over again, "Why
48:57isn't it more fulfilling? It's I thought
48:59I did everything you guys said and it
49:00still isn't working for me." We're
49:02hearing that skyrocket as a question in
49:04the last 2 years.
49:06I'm just not having the impact I want
49:08to.
49:08>> Mhm.
49:09>> Well, impact is important but it's only
49:10one form of meaning making and it's got
49:12a very short half-life like right after
49:14you finish doing something successful, 3
49:162 1 what have you done for us lately?
49:19So, there are other ways to experience
49:21meaning
49:22which happen in this place we call the
49:23flow world not in this busy world we're
49:25all in most of the time we call the
49:27transactional world. So, our big
49:29invitation for where that more meaning
49:30is is spending more time in the flow
49:32world which is right here by the way but
49:35there's a lot more in front of you than
49:36you think. This is easier than they told
49:38you.
49:39>> Okay, that's the part I want to hang on
49:40to.
49:41>> Yeah.
49:42>> This is easier than they told you and
49:44this is also easier than what you're
49:46currently doing.
49:48>> So, flow is that state where time stands
49:52still, you're in the moment by
49:54definition because that's where you are
49:57fully engaged and in it's a it's a
50:00moment where actually you you're you're
50:02making energy.
50:04Uh psychologists will say it's an it's
50:06an energy generating moment because
50:09it just feels so good. It's you know,
50:11dopamine and other good chemicals going
50:13in the brain. And um some of this comes
50:16from the work of Dr. Lisa Miller. And
50:18you you you know her she's from
50:19Columbia. She kind of updated the left
50:21brain, right brain model. We used to
50:22have the right brain was the creative
50:23brain, the left brain was the analytical
50:25brain. It's more nuanced than that and
50:26her model is there's the achieving
50:28brain, the the transactional brain,
50:31and the awakened brain is where we
50:33experience flow, where we experience
50:35spirituality, where we experience a
50:36connection to something bigger than
50:37ourselves. And so all we're arguing for
50:40is recognize that those two things, the
50:42transactional, the flow world, the
50:45achieving brain, the awakened brain, and
50:48get a little more into you know,
50:50building your whole brain, which is
50:51having a balance between the two. Um and
50:55being in the flow world and experiencing
50:58this awakened sense of yourself
51:00connected to the world, that's when
51:02we're more human. Right? So we need both
51:04sides of the brain, we need both
51:06awakened and achieving, we need to be in
51:08the transactional world and the flow
51:09world uh and we and we're under
51:11practiced, right? At getting into the
51:13flow world.
51:14>> Can you give me some examples in
51:16day-to-day life
51:18that really help illustrate for the
51:21person listening
51:22>> Mhm.
51:23>> who has never even considered that
51:25there's a second world to live in other
51:27than the one in your head?
51:28>> Right.
51:29>> What does it feel like to be in flow or
51:31what's an example that you might find in
51:33somebody's everyday life that you could
51:35hold on to go, oh, I've experienced
51:37this. I okay, I understand the this this
51:39difference.
51:41>> If you're an athlete, you're in you you
51:43felt it, you're in the zone. You're in
51:45that place where you just know where the
51:46ball's going to be. If you're a runner,
51:48it's the runner's high.
51:54Um
52:11I have a lot of voices in this head that
52:13are talking to me all the time. And so
52:15learning to just kind of quiet them down
52:18and do something do do an activity
52:20running
52:22cooking something that you enjoy doing
52:24but really being all in, right? Being
52:27you know, totally present and being
52:30available to what the experience can be.
52:34>> I keep coming back to this 14% thing. I
52:36think you your next book should be the
52:3814% mindset because I just feel this
52:40sense of the invitation.
52:43>> Yeah.
52:43>> Of the unlived life.
52:47That there's these two lives that we
52:48have.
52:49>> Just like unfinished business, yeah.
52:50>> Yeah, the one you're living and the one
52:52you have yet to create.
52:53>> Sure.
52:54>> And one of the things that you two write
52:56about is that you can boil the design
53:00your life process into a posted note.
53:03>> Right.
53:03>> Bill, what's on the posted note?
53:05>> Well, this this is this is hard.
53:07Professors don't like to boil their
53:08their things down to something so simple
53:10that anybody can do it.
53:11>> Actually, what everybody says anybody
53:13any idiot can make it complicated. It
53:15takes a genius to make it simple.
53:16>> Exactly. Um that's Mark Twain's if I had
53:19more time I'd have written a shorter
53:20letter. Yeah.
53:21>> It happened on Canadian live TV. We we
53:24were running out of time. The producer
53:25goes, "We're just about out of time. Can
53:26you do the book in a sentence?" I said,
53:28"Dude, we're Stanford professors. We
53:30don't give short answers to hard
53:31questions." He goes, "Well, then you're
53:32off the air." So I said, "Give me a
53:33minute." I was a marketing guy.
53:34[laughter]
53:34Um
53:35get curious, talk to people, try stuff,
53:37tell your story.
53:38So, it's 10 words. It's It's not one
53:40sentence, but it's get curious.
53:42That's lean in. That's lean into the
53:44availability. Talk to people, go out and
53:46engage with the world, you know, because
53:48the narrative story is where it's at.
53:49Try stuff, prototype your way forward,
53:52then tell the story of what you're
53:54learning. You're becoming, pay
53:56attention, reflect on what you're
53:57learning. You know, hey, how's it going?
53:59Oh, yeah, I get I binge-watched Game of
54:01Thrones all night last night again. What
54:03did you do? That's not that interesting.
54:04It's supposed to be like, well, I was
54:05talking about Robin. She's talking about
54:07There's There's 14% of the lives I'm
54:09living as well as the ones I'm not. I'm
54:11really thinking about that. And they
54:13kind of go, "Oh, say more. What's going
54:15on with that?" So, if you're leaning
54:16into and living your life and paying
54:18attention to it, get curious, talk to
54:20people, try stuff, tell your story.
54:23>> Then it becomes a
54:24circular pattern on telling stuff. I'm
54:26telling my story. People say, "That's
54:27very interesting. Have you thought about
54:29talking to so-and-so or just trying this
54:30or this?" And it just keeps going. You
54:32know, your your curiosity leads to more
54:34engagement, which leads to more
54:36prototypes, which leads to more stories.
54:39Once you get that flywheel running,
54:42um you know, it runs by itself. And it
54:44feels like, "Hey, I'm I'm making
54:46progress. I'm going somewhere. I'm not
54:48exactly sure where it is, but I'm pretty
54:50sure I'm going in the right direction."
54:52>> Well, I think it's really cool to just
54:53allow yourself to imagine
54:57that there are all of these things that
55:00you can do.
55:01>> Yeah.
55:02>> And you're you're going to die with the
55:04to-do list and the experiences and all
55:06of the things that you could have become
55:08regardless of whether you mope on the
55:10couch or you use these principles.
55:15>> You got to move from FOMO to JOMO, from
55:17the fear of missing out to the joy of
55:19missing out.
55:20So, people think the reason I have FOMO,
55:23right? Fear of missing out. Some cool
55:24thing goes by like, you know, oh oh,
55:26wow. Oh, we should have done that
55:28instead. Shoot, I missed it, says the
55:31person who has FOMO.
55:33The phrase I missed it acts as though
55:35the world is a scarce place and there's
55:37barely enough to make an it of your life
55:39and if you missed a little bit of an it
55:41you are now diminished.
55:43Wrong.
55:44Seeing something cool go by you haven't
55:46got time to do? Just remind you the
55:48world is a target rich place and you're
55:50a highly capacious creature who could be
55:53interested in so many more things than
55:55you have time for. Isn't that great? So
55:58get used to get a comfortable attitude
56:01toward wonderful things passing you by.
56:03Just remind you the world is a cool
56:05place to live.
56:06And enjoy that which is in front of you.
56:08Look, he talked me into writing a book.
56:10Again, I have just we just wrote this
56:11third book and I said, "Oh my god, if I
56:13do that the next four years of my life
56:15are completely spoken for. Do I really
56:18want to do that from
56:2071 to 75?"
56:23Do you? You have a year or two to write
56:24a book and I got a year or two to talk
56:26to Mel about it, you know. I feel like,
56:27"Do I really want to do that at this
56:28point in my life?" Well,
56:31sure. And it comes in packages of yes or
56:34no.
56:35And the yes to this book has got about
56:3775 no's in it for things I'm not doing
56:40right now. Yeah. And I'm perfectly happy
56:43living into the life I've chosen. Choose
56:45your life.
56:47>> Bill Burnett and Dave Evans, what are
56:49your parting words?
56:54>> You can do this.
56:56And I really hope you do.
57:00You deserve it.
57:04>> At the end of every class I always used
57:06to have my little be the change you want
57:07to see in the world.
57:09But yeah, I my my wish for for folks
57:11who's
57:12just try something. Try something really
57:14small and see if you can find that
57:17little piece of joy or that just like a
57:19pointer toward something
57:21that that wakes you up and uh
57:24and we know you can do it. We know you
57:25can.
57:27>> Well, my wish for you is that I'm at the
57:29table at the night that you do your
57:32waitering and that when you have your
57:34opening exhibit for the paintings you
57:36don't think the world cares about that
57:38we're all there to clap for you.
57:39>> I will absolutely invite you.
57:41>> Okay.
57:42>> I I'm going to I'm going to make you.
57:44I'm going to be there whether I'm
57:45invited tonight. Now I know Dave will
57:47text me and tell me even if you don't.
57:49No, seriously, I love you too. I love
57:51the work you do. Thank you for the
57:53difference that you make in all of our
57:56lives. Thank you for coming today. Thank
57:58you for writing this blockbuster of a
58:01book now more than ever. I know
58:04we are all searching for more meaning.
58:07>> Yeah.
58:07>> And we real I really am grateful that
58:10you're giving us the blueprint to find
58:13it where we are.
58:14Thank you.
58:16>> Thank you. You're a dear woman. This was
58:17really sweet.
58:19>> Yeah, we really appreciate that.
58:20Appreciate the opportunity. It was a
58:21great conversation.
58:23>> It really was. And thank you. I want to
58:25thank you for spending time with us and
58:27for making the time to invest in
58:30yourself, to listen to something that's
58:32going to open up possibilities for your
58:34life and your future because you
58:36deserve, as Bill and Dave said, to live
58:40a meaningful life.
58:42And this conversation has given you not
58:43just tools, but the permission and the
58:45encouragement to do so. And in case no
58:48one else tells you today as your friend,
58:49I want to tell you that I love you and I
58:51believe in you and I believe in your
58:52ability to create a better life. And as
58:55Bill and Dave said, do it, for crying
58:59out loud. All right, I'm going to
59:01welcome you into the next episode
59:02[music] the moment you hit play. I'll
59:03see you there.
59:05And thank you for watching all the way
59:07to the end. I really appreciate you
59:09being here. I'm so excited to see what
59:11your wild card is. And I know you're
59:13thinking, all right, Mel, what's the
59:15next video I should watch? It's
59:17definitely this one. You're going to
59:18love it. And I'll be there to welcome
59:20you in the moment you hit play.

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