How to Build Extreme Willpower | David Goggins & Dr. Andrew Huberman — Transcript

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1. 0:02I'm going to share a little neuroscience tidbit.
2. 0:04Love it.
3. 0:04But I think it's one that you'll appreciate.
4. 0:07Most people don't know this,
5. 0:09but there's a brain structure
6. 0:11called the anterior midcingulate cortex,
7. 0:13as we pointed out before, that's a noun, it's a name,
8. 0:15it doesn't mean anything.
9. 0:16Right. We could call it
10. 0:17the cookie monster.
11. 0:18Right.
12. 0:20But what's interesting about this brain area
13. 0:21is there's now a lot of data,
14. 0:24in humans, not some mouse study,
15. 0:27showing that when people do something they don't want to do,
16. 0:31like add three hours of exercise per day or per week,
17. 0:36or when people who are trying to diet and lose weight
18. 0:39resist eating something.
19. 0:40Right.
20. 0:42When people do anything that they,
21. 0:43and this is the important part,
22. 0:44that they don't want to do,
23. 0:46it's not about adding more work,
24. 0:47it's about adding more work that you don't want to do.
25. 0:50Yes.
26. 0:51This brain area gets bigger.
27. 0:52Yep.
28. 0:53Now here's what's especially interesting
29. 0:54about this brain area to me, and by the way,
30. 0:56I'm only learning this recently
31. 0:58because it's new data, but there's a lot of it.
32. 1:01The anterior midcingulate cortex
33. 1:04is smaller in obese people,
34. 1:08it gets bigger when they diet.
35. 1:10It's larger in athletes,
36. 1:13it's especially large or grows larger
37. 1:16in people that see themselves
38. 1:19as challenged and overcome some challenge.
39. 1:21Right.
40. 1:23And in people that live a very long time,
41. 1:28this area keeps its size.
42. 1:31In many ways, scientists are starting to think
43. 1:33of the anterior midcingulate cortex
44. 1:35not just as one of the seats of willpower.
45. 1:38Right.
46. 1:39But perhaps actually the seat of the will to live.
47. 1:43See, now we're talking.
48. 1:45And when I learned about the anterior midcingulate cortex,
49. 1:47I was like almost out of my seat.
50. 1:49And I've been in the neuroscience game since I was 20.
51. 1:51Now we're talking. And we're the same age.
52. 1:52And I was so pumped
53. 1:53'cause I've heard of the amygdala fear, prefrontal cortex,
54. 1:56it's planning and action.
55. 1:57I could tell you every brain area and every,
56. 1:59I teach neuroanatomy to medical students.
57. 2:01But when I started seeing the data
58. 2:03on the anterior midcingulate cortex,
59. 2:06I was like, whoa, this is interesting.
60. 2:10Yep.
61. 2:11And all the data points to the fact
62. 2:13that we can build this area up.
63. 2:15Yep.
64. 2:16But that, as quickly as we build it up,
65. 2:18if we don't continue to invest in things
66. 2:20that are hard for us that we don't want to do,
67. 2:23that's the part that feels so Goggin-esque.
68. 2:26Yes, sir. To me,
69. 2:27that we don't want to do,
70. 2:28like if you love the ice bath,
71. 2:30"Yeah, I love the ice bath,"
72. 2:31and you go from one minute to 10 minutes, guess what?
73. 2:34Your anterior midcingulate cortex did not grow.
74. 2:36None.
75. 2:36But if you hate the cold water,
76. 2:39if you're afraid of drowning and you get into water
77. 2:42and put your head under.
78. 2:43Yep.
79. 2:45Then your anterior mid, and survive,
80. 2:47then the anterior midcingulate cortex gets bigger.
81. 2:49But if you don't do it the next day,
82. 2:51or if you do it the next day and you enjoy it
83. 2:53because, hey, hey, I did it yesterday,
84. 2:55woo-hoo, happy me, Merry Christmas,
85. 2:57as you would say. That's right,
86. 2:58Merry Christmas.
87. 2:59Guess what?
88. 3:00The anterior midcingulate cortex shrinks again.
89. 3:02DAVID: Yep.
90. 3:03To me, this is one of the most important discoveries
91. 3:05that neuroscience has ever made
92. 3:08because it's that I don't want to do something
93. 3:11but do it anyway.
94. 3:12That's right.
95. 3:13That grows this area,
96. 3:14and it's almost like I have a friend,
97. 3:15he's been sober 30 years from alcohol,
98. 3:18and he always says, you know,
99. 3:19the amazing thing about addiction is there's a cure,
100. 3:23the problem is it only works one day at a time.
101. 3:25Yep.
102. 3:26And so, you have to renew it every day.
103. 3:27That's right.
104. 3:28So the anterior midcingulate cortex to me,
105. 3:30when I learned about it, two things went off in my head,
106. 3:33whoa, this is super interesting,
107. 3:34and two, I got to tell David Goggins about this.
108. 3:36And I waited until now.
109. 3:37I'm glad. To tell you
110. 3:38because I felt like, well, for obvious reasons,
111. 3:42I wanted to tell you and I wanted to tell you here.
112. 3:44Well, I love that
113. 3:45because that's how I've lived my entire life,
114. 3:48I didn't know anything about that.
115. 3:50But people go, "Man, you have such a strong will."
116. 3:54It's something that you build, like I never forgot,
117. 3:56I was on a podcast one time, and this dude goes,
118. 3:59"You were blessed with a strong mind."
119. 4:03Like, the hell you talking about
120. 4:07I was blessed with a strong mind?
121. 4:10That's something that you have to develop.
122. 4:13You develop that over years, decades of suffering
123. 4:19and going back into the suffer.
124. 4:21That's why a lot of people who graduate Navy SEAL training,
125. 4:28I talk about very openly all the time,
126. 4:32a lot of guys don't want to go back into that water,
127. 4:35don't want to go back into the hard stuff.
128. 4:38Anything hard, anything hard in life,
129. 4:41once you get through it, it's like you become a POW.
130. 4:45Like, how many POWs you know want to go back to POW camp?
131. 4:48None.
132. 4:49When something sucks so bad in life, this is on this,
133. 4:53that we're talking about now, very few people want to go back.
134. 4:58They're happy they graduated.
135. 5:02I realized I'm the same way, I don't want to go back.
136. 5:07I have to go back, I must go back.
137. 5:11Because that is exactly where
138. 5:13all the knowledge of my life exists was back there
139. 5:17and what exactly what you're talking about.
140. 5:19Well, I didn't know anything about this,
141. 5:21but how I grew a will was constantly doing these things,
142. 5:26so now, it's just life.
143. 5:30I wake up, while it still sucks, it's just life.
144. 5:33You don't sit back and like, oh my God,
145. 5:35like I have days I don't want to do it,
146. 5:36but I know I'm going to do it.
147. 5:39I know from years of just doing it, so that's beautiful.
148. 5:44And this is why I came on here with you today,
149. 5:46and I'm glad that you're talking about this
150. 5:48because human beings need to hear this,
151. 5:51they need to stop hearing these hacks on this and that,
152. 5:56there's no fucking hack, bro,
153. 5:58there's no fucking hack,
154. 5:59yeah, you may this and that and saunas and this,
155. 6:03all this shit that they, yeah, it's great.
156. 6:06There is no fucking life hack.
157. 6:09To grow that thing, how do you grow it?
158. 6:12Do it, and do it, and do it and do it.
159. 6:16That's the hack, the hack is going to fucking suck.
160. 6:19And that's when I realized, that's when I realized.
161. 6:22That's why I wanted to come on here today,
162. 6:24I didn't want to come on here
163. 6:25and talk about no fucking passion and purpose
164. 6:28and how to get the fuck out of bed
165. 6:30and how to hit a fucking alarm clock
166. 6:31and all this catchphrase bullshit,
167. 6:35'cause that wasn't how I lived, it wasn't how I lived.
168. 6:38I lived, I woke up like every human being does
169. 6:41and goes, "Fuck, man, I'm a fucking piece of shit today.
170. 6:44How the hell is this going to work out for me?"
171. 6:46And you fight that and you fight that,
172. 6:49you don't override it, there's no override button.
173. 6:52It's the conversation in your head.
174. 6:55So how do you do that?
175. 6:57We don't have enough of these conversations
176. 6:59about the real conversation that every human being is having
177. 7:03and they have no idea how to get out of it, but they do.
178. 7:07It's that shit right there, man, you got to build your will.
179. 7:11How do you build your will? Exactly what you said, man.
180. 7:14Exactly what you said.
181. 7:16Well, I feel like knowing the name of something,
182. 7:19anterior midcingulate cortex
183. 7:20doesn't fundamentally change us.
184. 7:21But one thing I like about biology is that, willpower,
185. 7:27if somebody feels they don't have it,
186. 7:29feels like this thing that other people have.
187. 7:31But everybody, unless they're brain damaged,
188. 7:34like a hole through their head
189. 7:36has two anterior midcingulate cortex,
190. 7:39one on each side of their brain.
191. 7:41Everyone has one, they have two.
192. 7:43So I feel like it's just a question of opening the portal,
193. 7:48and the portal, again, I'm going to say it 10 times
194. 7:52and forgive me, is I think people go,
195. 7:53"Oh, I do hard things, I do sets to failure,
196. 7:56and then I do forced reps."
197. 7:57I love training with weights, I love doing sets to failure,
198. 8:00I even like forced reps, but guess what?
199. 8:02I like forced reps, so I'll tell you,
200. 8:04they don't build my anterior midcingulate cortex.
201. 8:07Right.
202. 8:08Because I like to do it.
203. 8:08That's right.
204. 8:09Anything you like to do
205. 8:11is not going to enhance this aspect of willpower.
206. 8:13And it seems so obvious once you hear it,
207. 8:15you kind of go, "Oh yeah, of course."
208. 8:17But I think you really close that loop for people
209. 8:22when you share what you're sharing today
210. 8:26and what you've shared elsewhere before as well,
211. 8:27when you're trying to explain
212. 8:28the friction is the critical ingredient.
213. 8:30Right.
214. 8:31And I think people think,
215. 8:32oh, if it's effort, well, then, I'm getting better,
216. 8:34that's part of it, necessary, but not sufficient,
217. 8:37as we say in science.
218. 8:38But the suck part, the being haunted, the stick,
219. 8:44they're really unpleasant terms.
220. 8:46Very.
221. 8:47These are probably the most unpleasant terms
222. 8:48we've ever used on this podcast.
223. 8:50Very.
224. 8:51Those are the levers, those are the gears.
225. 8:55And without those, this thing that you're talking about,
226. 8:58David Goggins as a verb.
227. 9:00Right.
228. 9:01You know, I sometimes make the joke, but it's not a joke.
229. 9:04DAVID: Right.
230. 9:05Goggins is a name and it's a verb.
231. 9:08People go, "I'm going to Goggins that."
232. 9:10Right. Right?
233. 9:10But that's, I think, again, I'm not a psychologist,
234. 9:14but I think that's what you're talking about.
235. 9:15The stick, the friction, being haunted,
236. 9:19it's the suck part that grows
237. 9:21this anterior midcingulate cortex.
238. 9:23So now you know why there's so many people
239. 9:26that fail in this world to figure out their purpose,
240. 9:32their purpose in life, where do I go?
241. 9:34Because to grow that,
242. 9:38while you may not look like me, how my daily life looks.
243. 9:43It don't look fun,
244. 9:46it don't look fun.
245. 9:48So it's a choice that people have to make in life.
246. 9:53But what's so funny about it is even the richest of rich,
247. 9:56who have everything, they always ask me this question,
248. 9:59"I feel like I'm missing something."
249. 10:03I don't feel like I'm missing shit.
250. 10:06I don't have what you all have,
251. 10:09but you'll never in my life
252. 10:11hear me tell you I'm missing something.
253. 10:14And everybody is, they're missing this feeling.
254. 10:19I found it, a long time ago,
255. 10:22and I found it right there in that willpower thing.
256. 10:25When you're nothing, nothing,
257. 10:28and change yourself into something like me,
258. 10:33you call it happiness, peace,
259. 10:36whatever the fuck you want to call it,
260. 10:40people are missing exactly what went on with David Goggins.
261. 10:44"Why don't you smile?"
262. 10:45I do, I do.
263. 10:47But I figured something out,
264. 10:49that's why you'll never hear me say,
265. 10:52"I'm missing something."
266. 10:53I found it years ago.
267. 10:55You find it in the suck, you find it in the suck,
268. 11:00and you find it repeatedly in the suck,
269. 11:02to the point where you know exactly who you are.
270. 11:05Most people are missing something
271. 11:06because they don't know who they are,
272. 11:10they never examine themselves,
273. 11:12they've never done this experiment on themselves.
274. 11:16The lab rat, we're all lab rats.
275. 11:18But you are also the scientist.
276. 11:21You create your own self.
277. 11:24Most people are missing something
278. 11:25'cause there's so much trapped in there.
279. 11:29I don't even want to say potential,
280. 11:30I think that word's used out too much too.
281. 11:32There's so much in you that God
282. 11:34or whoever the hell you believe in, or if you're a atheist,
283. 11:37in you, that you have not unlocked,
284. 11:40that you walk around with this gorgeous wife
285. 11:42or great husband and all this money, you're like,
286. 11:45"God, I feel like I'm missing something."
287. 11:47Yeah, because it's about 75% of you
288. 11:51is still fucking in there, still chained up,
289. 11:55because you just didn't want to find your willpower,
290. 11:58didn't want to find your soul, your will, your heart,
291. 12:00your determination, your guts, your courage,
292. 12:03and what that looks like, it looks scary,
293. 12:05like your little scary lab I went in, scary.
294. 12:09To wake up every day and say,
295. 12:10"I'm stupid, but I want to figure out a way to be smarter,"
296. 12:14versus saying, "Man, I just can't do that."
297. 12:16So you limit this box,
298. 12:19so your box becomes so small of things you can do.
299. 12:22My box wasn't even a box,
300. 12:25it was a fucking little like little pinhole.
301. 12:28And then, through examining myself,
302. 12:31getting some willpower, some courage,
303. 12:34it became bigger than this table.
304. 12:35But that's what we all do,
305. 12:36that's why I wanted to come here today
306. 12:37and talk to you about real shit.
307. 12:40Not no fucking like hacks, there's no hacks, bro.
308. 12:43It's you against you, you against you.
309. 12:46And if you misunderstand that,
310. 12:49you have a real problem, real problem.
311. 12:52I can understand you misunderstand me
312. 12:53running down the street, shirt off,
313. 12:55"Fuck this, yeah, yeah," I can get it, I get it.
314. 12:58If you misunderstand
315. 12:59what I'm saying right now today, the problem is you,
316. 13:04and you don't want to fix it.
317. 13:06[MUSIC PLAYING]