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How to Build an Unforgettable Personal Brand | Chris Do — Transcript

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0:00Personal brand is about who you are,
0:01understanding your voice in this world,
0:03your values, and being able to
0:05communicate that. It's devoid of you
0:07trying to make money.
0:08>> Chris Do is [music] an expert when it
0:10comes to personal brand. He's an Emmy
0:11award-winning designer and founder of
0:13The Futur, [music] which he's grown to
0:142.8 million subscribers on YouTube.
0:16>> If you want to develop your personal
0:17brand, you need [music] to know what
0:19your keyword is, what you want to be
0:20associated with. So, when people think
0:22of this word, they think of me. The vast
0:24majority of people who speak about
0:26personal brand, [music] the 99.9%
0:28of them, I'd argue they're not working
0:30on their personal brand at all.
0:31>> What are they working on?
0:32>> They're working on their marketing
0:33funnel calling it a personal brand.
0:34>> It actually all starts with figuring out
0:36who you are outside of what you've
0:39built.
0:39>> Do you feel like you know who you are,
0:40your identity?
0:41>> Um
0:42>> Can we get real vulnerable?
0:44>> Yeah, we can do that.
0:45>> Halfway through this episode, he
0:46actually turns the interview around and
0:48he starts coaching me.
0:49>> I'm asking the questions now.
0:50>> [laughter]
0:50>> Yeah, you're in charge.
0:51>> I want to write in your notebook and I
0:53want to map [music] some of this in case
0:54something comes out.
0:55>> This was one of the most special
0:57episodes I've ever recorded on this
0:58show, and it's because of how Chris
1:00shows up and the things that he teaches
1:02for you to change how you show up as a
1:04creator.
1:05>> Have you shared this before?
1:06>> Uh
1:07>> Oh my gosh, this is going to be juicy
1:09episode. You said we're we're not going
1:10to go that deep, but we're going to go
1:11real deep, okay?
1:12>> No, actually I see it.
1:13The complete opposite.
1:15>> Thanks for sharing that story and for
1:16being real with me.
1:18>> Thanks for drawing it out.
1:19>> Oh, we're not done with the drawing yet.
1:21>> [laughter]
1:25>> Chris, welcome to the show.
1:26>> Thanks, Nathan.
1:26>> Something that you talk a lot about is
1:28personal brand.
1:28>> Mhm.
1:29>> And I know a lot of people, and we
1:31probably both do, who put tons of effort
1:33into their personal brand and don't feel
1:35like they're getting attention and
1:36eyeballs on it, like and it and that
1:38it's actually resonating.
1:39>> Mhm.
1:39>> You have this phrase I've heard you say
1:40of unbland yourself.
1:42>> Yes.
1:43>> What does that mean?
1:43>> Okay.
1:45Well, I I will tell you the origin of
1:47where that idea or word comes from. A
1:49friend of mine, he's a luminary in the
1:51design space, his name is Brian Collins.
1:53He has an agency, agency of the year
1:55kind of stuff. And he he has a playful
1:57way of talking about things. He's like,
1:59"You know, it's not called blending,
2:01it's branding." And he makes fun of all
2:03these other big multi-million-dollar
2:05agencies who are doing very high-end
2:08brand work. He goes, "It's so boring.
2:10Blah, blah, blah. It's all the same."
2:12And he wants to inject personality,
2:14humor, fun, a point of view. And so I
2:16keep thinking about that. And then, hard
2:19stop, I I look at people and how they
2:21show up online, and we're all kind of
2:23insecure about who we are in real life,
2:26even more so online. So, what we do is
2:29we follow certain templates or mandates,
2:32so so to speak, from people who tell us
2:34this is how we're supposed to be.
2:35There's an averageness, a sameness that
2:38we aspire towards, which is really
2:40strange to me. And so everyone is just
2:42blending in. So, we need to stand out.
2:44And to to summarize what what branding
2:47is, it's differentiation. How are you
2:49different than your competitors? Cuz
2:51that's the only thing people remember.
2:53An undifferentiated product in the
2:54market space is called a commodity.
2:56>> Right.
2:57>> If I can't tell the difference between
2:59one phone to the next,
3:00I just buy purely on specs and price at
3:02that point, and you've lost the battle.
3:04The the ongoing debate, not debate, but
3:07the observation is Apple has a brand,
3:09Dell doesn't.
3:11Because at for Dell, all we do is we
3:13look at the price point and the
3:14features. There's no feeling, we have no
3:16loyalty to them, we don't go and extol
3:18their virtues to everybody else. We
3:20don't wear Dell t-shirts, we don't put
3:22their stickers on our other products, we
3:24don't brag to our friends, we don't shun
3:26our friends who don't use Dell products.
3:27Dell sells a machine, a very good
3:29machine at a great price point, and I'm
3:31appreciative of that, but they don't
3:32really have a brand. So, people who are
3:35out there trying to create content, I
3:37think they fall into Dell camp.
3:39Serviceable, highly forgettable. So,
3:42what we have to do is we have to lean
3:43into what makes us different, we have to
3:45unbrand ourselves.
3:47>> I saw someone I I saw this play out on X
3:50the other day, where someone was like,
3:51"Look, I need a new monitor. I can buy
3:53the Apple monitor for whatever $2,500 or
3:57something, or I can buy the Dell monitor
3:59that's the same size, same specs, you
4:01know,
4:02there's probably some differences, but
4:03to them, you know, they're comparing
4:04specs, or I can buy this for like $700.
4:06Like, which one should I buy?"
4:08And you if you looked in the comments,
4:10probably a third of it was about specs,
4:12and a third of like a third or more was
4:14about like identity, brand, who you are,
4:18like, you know, that sort of thing. It
4:19was like, you know, or people people
4:21would say things like, "Well, you make a
4:22lot of money in your business." It's
4:23like,
4:24"Buy the Apple, you know, like, and all
4:26of that." And you realize like,
4:27all Dell has going for it is specs and
4:30price. And that was the only thing.
4:31>> Yeah. Are you familiar with Maslow's
4:33hierarchy of needs? Okay, we talked
4:35about that, and and I think it's
4:37withstood the test of time that we can
4:38kind of almost say that there's some
4:40truth to this, right? At the bottom is
4:42survival. What's at the top of Maslow's
4:44hierarchy of needs?
4:45>> Self-actualization.
4:46>> Mhm. What does that even mean?
4:48>> I I don't know.
4:49>> Right, it's kind of a little bit
4:50strange, right? And I think it's to
4:53achieve your human potential or
4:54something like that. And it's a very
4:56difficult concept to understand, but if
4:58I were to describe it to you
4:59differently, maybe it'll be more
5:01memorable, and we can see some truth in
5:03that. Hormozi talks about the three
5:05things that you need to sell to people:
5:06health, wealth, and relationships. Make
5:09me stronger, faster, better, let me live
5:10longer, make my skin perfect, that's
5:13would be under the health category.
5:15>> Yeah.
5:15>> Above that is wealth.
5:17Uh wealth is like generate more money,
5:19give me more freedom. And then above
5:22that is relationships, and help me to
5:24improve my relationships with a partner,
5:25with my
5:27uh with my spirituality or something
5:29like that. And there's something there,
5:30my community. And then he stops there.
5:34Like, no, there's more to that. There
5:36really is, and I think he talks about
5:38it, but he didn't build into it. So, at
5:39the bottom is health, above that is
5:41wealth, above that is relationships, and
5:43then I think he's just missing two
5:44categories: status,
5:46>> Mhm.
5:47>> which [clears throat] is
5:48I'm signaling to people all the time
5:50about who I am.
5:51>> Right.
5:52>> And and above that is identity. Who am
5:55I?
5:56So, it maps perfectly to Maslow's
5:58hierarchy of needs cuz at the bottom
5:59survival, health, and at the top
6:02self-actualization or identity. Who am
6:04I?
6:04So, I think that's the big question of
6:06our lifetime is who am I in this
6:08lifetime? Did what I do did it make a
6:11difference in this world? Do I matter? I
6:13think when we fast forward to 100 years
6:16from now when you're almost ready to
6:17die, you'll ask yourself,
6:20"Did I matter?" And if the answer's no,
6:22it's kind of a sad existence.
6:24And so the thing about status and
6:26identity ties into branding.
6:28So, when I buy
6:30an Apple monitor, it's not like I need
6:32specs or I need to have a screen, it's
6:35because well, who am I? Am I a person of
6:37taste? Am I successful enough to afford
6:40a luxury like a monitor that's cost
6:42three to four times as much as the other
6:44comparable monitor? I am. And I'm an
6:48aesthetic person, so I care about what
6:49things look like not just how they
6:51function. And there's a joy in the
6:53moments in which you unpack, open, and
6:55look at this thing every single day that
6:57you remind yourself, "I did it."
6:59>> Right.
6:59>> And I proved the naysayers wrong and I
7:01can have these things. And you can take
7:03this across the spectrum from water to
7:05pizza to cars. Everything you do or buy
7:07says something about you and this is how
7:10we're signaling to other people our
7:12status and our identity. It's a really
7:14important thing for us to start
7:15understand because we've moved into a
7:17time in which there's abundance and we
7:20live longer, we have more things, and
7:22there's less to kill us. And so we start
7:24to move towards the higher uh the the
7:27top of the tier of Maslow's hierarchy of
7:28needs.
7:29>> Is there a brand that you can think of
7:31uh either as an individual or you know,
7:33like a a corporation that has made that
7:35shift from you know, the Dell to the
7:37Apple?
7:38>> Target.
7:38>> Okay.
7:39>> Target's a great a study.
7:40>> Target.
7:41>> Yeah, Target.
7:42Um
7:43I remember growing up not having a lot
7:45of money.
7:45>> Yep.
7:46>> So, there are discount dis- big box
7:48stores that if you were seen in, it
7:50would signal to other people that your
7:51parents aren't doing well. Like for us,
7:53it was Kmart.
7:54>> Yeah.
7:54>> And my parents and um you know, I'm an
7:56immigrant. Being immigrants, we we want
7:58a bargain. We don't want to pay for a
7:59brand. Doesn't make any sense. And it
8:02was always a running joke in junior high
8:04or elementary, like, "Oh, you guys shop
8:06at Kmart." I'm like, "God dang it, we
8:07do."
8:08It's so shameful. The blue light
8:09special. Like, how do we get around
8:11this? And you know, my mom's sage advice
8:13was, "Why are you so afraid of being
8:15seen at Kmart?"
8:17Because if they see you, you have equal
8:18ammunition. I'm like, "Mom, that's just
8:20not how it works." I know that's
8:21logical. Yeah, it's like Yeah, we're
8:23both at Kmart. We're both at Kmart.
8:25Right? It's like, "How can you tell
8:26people?" Cuz how did you see me?
8:28>> [laughter]
8:28>> Right? But in my emotional undeveloped
8:31brain, I'm like, "It don't matter. Now
8:32people are going to know."
8:34And Target is Kmart.
8:36With brand.
8:38Okay, if you look at Kmart, Kmart pushes
8:40discount, best price. Same thing with um
8:43what's that other Walmart? It's always
8:44the best prices, like the blue light
8:46special or whatever they're promoting.
8:48The smiley face guy.
8:50Target went a different direction.
8:52They're saying like like affordable
8:54quality or affordable luxury. That's
8:56what they want to be able to create. So,
8:58instead of just pumping out cheap OEM
9:01white label things, they partner with
9:04legitimate designers, architects,
9:06industrial designers, and people with
9:08brand name, and then they are able to
9:09use their distribution, their
9:11manufacturing power, their buying power
9:13to get you at something that is a higher
9:15quality for a decent price.
9:17>> Right.
9:17>> So, they shift the emphasis away from it
9:19being cheap to it being good and
9:20affordable, which changes the narrative.
9:23>> If you walk through, you know, I'm
9:24thinking about seeing something from
9:25like Chip and Joanna Gaines in the home
9:28goods section at Target, right? And it's
9:29well-branded, it's well-positioned, it's
9:32not very expensive.
9:33>> No.
9:33>> You know, it's probably more than the
9:34equivalent whatever item would be at
9:37Walmart or that sort of thing, but it it
9:39has design and taste and and all of that
9:41to it. And it's partnered with someone
9:42who has brand.
9:43>> And they've done this for decades. We're
9:45aware of it now, but when I was in
9:47school, we'd go to Target, they had
9:49famous architect Michael Graves design a
9:51set of home goods.
9:53So, Michael [clears throat] Graves
9:53doesn't do this, he's an architect, but
9:56they got his perspective and I think
9:58they've been doing this for a really
9:59long time and you can see this. And then
10:01they did a thing with I think Martha
10:03Stewart or you know, they they bring in
10:05big name brand people who have a sense
10:07for design. Hopefully, it's not just
10:09them signing off on things they have no
10:11involvement in, we hope.
10:13>> Right.
10:14>> But in theory, you buy a higher quality
10:16product at a good price. So, they they
10:19There's an expression
10:21that good design doesn't cost more. It's
10:23a It's bad design that costs more cuz it
10:25doesn't work. And so, what you're paying
10:27for is the idea, but the manufacturing
10:30the amount of plastic or whatever goes
10:31into products literally the same. So,
10:33you don't have to reinvent all that
10:34stuff.
10:35>> Right.
10:36Yeah, it you know, it goes back to
10:37identity as you're talking about like
10:38what kind of person shops in each place
10:40or or all of that.
10:42Thinking about Kit as a brand, something
10:44that we've tried to do a lot of is
10:47some of the other players in the space
10:49are very much about like make money
10:51online. Like it's starting to get into
10:53some get rich quick vibes,
10:55right? And we've always obviously email
10:58and newsletters are a fantastic way to
11:00make money, but you'll never hear us say
11:01make money, you'll always hear us say
11:03earn a living.
11:04Right? Or you you will always talk about
11:06the value provided. Right? As a as a
11:08creator on Kit,
11:11all of our messaging is about you serve
11:12your audience and then you're taken care
11:15of as part of that rather than
11:17like your audience is a an ATM where
11:20it's when you just need some money, you
11:21launch something and and go from there.
11:23Cuz I always think about Seth Godin's
11:24line of like people like us do things
11:27like this. And so, really trying to
11:28differentiate
11:30a Kit creator from
11:32any other platform.
11:33>> Yeah.
11:34It hard when you start to sell into,
11:36excuse me, wealth,
11:38then [clears throat] you're on the
11:39second tier. You should strive to move
11:41towards status and identity.
11:44And so, there's the five whys. Why do
11:46you do something? And if you keep asking
11:47that question, you'll find a commonality
11:49between the people who are your
11:50customers and the people who are not.
11:52And so, people sell features,
11:54usually, and then they move to benefits,
11:57which may be what you're talking about,
11:58which is earn a living. But then we
12:00would need to move towards meaning.
12:03So, it's like, why is it important for
12:05you to earn a living?
12:06>> Because you need to take care of your
12:07family.
12:08>> That would be one. What else?
12:09>> Uh anything you want to buy.
12:12Home, yeah.
12:13>> Yeah.
12:14>> All of those things.
12:14>> Yeah. What else? Anything else?
12:17>> Uh
12:17>> Why do we need to earn a living?
12:19>> Uh
12:19>> And sometimes they're not always good
12:21reasons, by the way. Sometimes they're
12:22bad reasons. And it's it's a good reason
12:24that it's bad, but
12:25>> A good reason that it's bad. Our whole
12:27society runs around money, and so,
12:29needing
12:31the I mean, that is that is the currency
12:32that everyone operates in.
12:34>> Yeah. So, we could say something like
12:36make your ex regret
12:39leaving you.
12:40>> Right.
12:41>> That could be a reason. That's a bad
12:42reason, that's a good reason.
12:43>> Yeah, show up to your 10-year, 20-year
12:46high school reunion driving some fancy
12:49car, and everyone's like, you know.
12:50>> Yeah.
12:51>> Right. You know, I'm
12:52trying to prove someone wrong or
12:54>> That's right. So, we have to look at
12:55people's motivations, like
12:57prove your brother-in-law wrong.
12:59>> Mhm.
13:00>> Or maybe go on that dream vacation
13:04>> Right.
13:04>> that you've always wanted. And stop stop
13:07cutting coupons.
13:08I mean, there's a lot of different human
13:09motivations, so we can say we're going
13:11to earn a living, and in specific
13:14campaigns, you can talk a little bit
13:15more about this deeper idea.
13:17Right?
13:18>> Cuz there's a huge status element to
13:20what what you spend, right? Especially
13:21now with social media, where
13:24the it's the vacation for a lot of
13:27people is not actually about am I
13:30enjoying the time in the moment where I
13:31am. It's about do I have the right photo
13:34to post to signal that I'm the kind of
13:37person who can spend a month in Bali
13:39doing, you know, doing whatever to then
13:41get me the brand deal so that I can, you
13:43know,
13:44whatever else.
13:45>> Yeah, I I think that is a different kind
13:48of status that is pretty hollow.
13:51>> Yeah. Oh, yeah.
13:51>> And we know that. So, it's like the joke
13:54is like
13:55did you work out today if you didn't
13:56post on social?
13:58Of course you did, but you know, we got
13:59to make sure everybody knows that we're
14:01at the box gym or whatever and we're
14:04doing what we need to do. So, can I get
14:05back to one of the questions you were
14:06asking about like a lot of people are
14:08working on their personal brand and it's
14:09not going anywhere.
14:10>> Yep.
14:11>> I'd argue they're not working on their
14:12personal brand at all.
14:13>> What are they working on?
14:14>> They're working on their marketing
14:16funnel calling it a personal brand.
14:18Cuz everything put out is a disguise,
14:20not well disguised ad for a product or
14:23service they sell. And this is what they
14:24do because they follow and emulate what
14:26everyone else is doing.
14:28Every piece of content is a pitch to
14:30like and if you want my downloadable, if
14:32you want this, you want that. It's
14:33always that.
14:35In order for me, okay, let me step back.
14:38>> Yeah.
14:38>> Um
14:39personal brand and the word brand has
14:41become quite popular. I think
14:42marketing's great. I think sales is
14:44great. I think funnel design's great,
14:46but it don't sound that sexy right now.
14:48And so those same people have decided to
14:51call it this new buzzword which is
14:53personal branding.
14:54>> Yep.
14:55>> They're really just teaching you
14:56conversion design, learning how to do
14:58the customer journey, about how to run
15:00marketing campaigns. It's really not
15:01about personal brand. But I find that
15:03the vast majority of people who speak
15:05about personal brand,
15:07the 99.9%
15:09of them are in this space where they're
15:11really just using the words advertising,
15:13marketing, funnel design, conversions
15:16and they're using the wrong label.
15:18>> Okay.
15:18>> Cuz maybe they're ashamed of what they
15:19do or they're just chasing the next
15:21buzzword. So, in that church of personal
15:24branding, I am an outlier. I'm a
15:26blasphemer. I'm the antichrist. Yeah.
15:28Okay? This is who I am because I'm
15:30thinking personal brand is about who you
15:32are, understanding your voice in this
15:34world, your values, and being able to
15:36communicate that. It's devoid of you
15:38trying to make money.
15:40And so, I think they're going on one
15:42pursuit without understanding what that
15:44pursuit is. They're executing the wrong
15:46plan, following the wrong leaders. And
15:49And that's really the problem. People
15:51come to me in my workshops. It's
15:52personal branding. Like, "Chris, how do
15:53we sell more?" Like, I'm sorry, friend.
15:56There's no refunds, but that's not what
15:57we're going to do here. We're going to
15:58get into your shadow work. We're going
15:59to understand your voice phrase,
16:00understand who you are in this lifetime,
16:03lean into your vulnerabilities, and to
16:05be able to be able to surface them and
16:08share them with the world because right
16:09now you're just masking.
16:11>> Well, so that's something I wanted to
16:12ask about is that a lot of people think
16:13that personal brand is about what they
16:15post.
16:16Right? And
16:18Well, I've heard you say that like all
16:20the real work in personal brand is
16:21internal.
16:22>> It is.
16:22>> Like, and you you mentioned shadow work.
16:24You mentioned like What do you Let's
16:25dive into that. What do you mean?
16:26>> Well, all right. Oh my gosh, this is
16:28going to be a juicy episode. You said we
16:30were not going to go that deep, but
16:31we're going to go real deep, okay? I
16:33think there's this period in your
16:34lifetime, I would guess between 3 years
16:37old and 9, that you are who you were
16:38really are in this lifetime.
16:41And through a lot of socializing and
16:43conditioning, that person is
16:45washed away, and you become very
16:48homogenized with society. I'll give you
16:50an example. Let's say you like to pick
16:51your nose. I'm not saying that's who you
16:53are, that's not your identity, but
16:54that's what you do. And somebody say,
16:55"Yeah, that's gross. Don't do that." And
16:57then you stop really loud. "Let's use
16:59our inside voice." So, the entire
17:01process of growing up into adulthood is
17:03someone shaving off all the edges and
17:06sanding you down until you're just like
17:08shiny river stone. Cool. River rock. And
17:11then you get out into the world, and
17:13then you enter a next phase, which is I
17:15finished college, I'm going to work.
17:16Guess what? We wear the corporate
17:17uniform. It's jacket and tie. It's only
17:20casual Fridays. This is what you need to
17:21do. This is how you say things. This is
17:23how you move up in the world. So, we're
17:24very much trained by society to fit into
17:26a very specific box.
17:28And we've learned very early on
17:31if we're different, we're weird, and
17:32we're doing things, they label you
17:34weird, different, a freak. Get away from
17:36me, freak. Right? Like if you're into
17:38chess and everyone's into football,
17:40they're like, "You're a nerd loser." And
17:41they'll say much
17:42>> Much more nicer Much worse things.
17:44>> you're going to be horrible. And all
17:46you're searching for is belongingness,
17:49the relationships third tier, and you're
17:51like, "This is terrible. I don't want to
17:53do this. This is too painful for me."
17:55Because you don't have identity yet.
17:57And so, you keep pretending to be
18:00someone long enough and you forget who
18:01the real you is. So, my task, I think my
18:05purpose in this life is to be able to
18:07help individuals like yourself remember
18:09who you were. Cuz this is the pursuit of
18:12your lifetime.
18:13And to be able to lean into all that
18:16stuff that you thought was so weird that
18:18you've put away into a little box and
18:19you hit it into the attic of your mind
18:21and you never look at it again. So much
18:24so that it scares you to see it.
18:26It really does. We're so trained to make
18:28other people happy, to fit in, that we
18:30don't know what it means to be ourselves
18:32anymore.
18:33>> So, you Yeah, you talked about how um
18:35how everyone's born weird, right?
18:37There's all those
18:38>> We're born us. We're labeled weird.
18:39>> Yeah, yeah, exactly.
18:41So, what what does it look like
18:43first to do the work to bring that back
18:45out and to be like, "Oh, I actually
18:47don't need to uh dress the same, act the
18:49same, like grab for belonging wherever,
18:52you know, someone might offer a single
18:55shred of it." And then like first to do
18:57that work and then second to actually
18:59show that outwardly when it comes out in
19:01something like brand or the things
19:03you're standing for.
19:04>> Here's the Here's the interesting thing.
19:06Do you mind me asking how old you are?
19:07>> I'm 35.
19:08>> Very young man. 35 years old.
19:11>> Damn. 35. I'm 54, so if we invert the
19:15ages a little bit, you're just still a
19:16year younger than me, which is not cool.
19:19I'm just going to say that. Okay. Do you
19:21feel like you know who you are, your
19:22identity?
19:23>> Um
19:24>> [sighs and gasps]
19:25>> Can we get vulnerable?
19:26>> Yeah, we can do that.
19:28>> Let's do it. Josh is looking at me like,
19:29"Oh god, go here." [laughter]
19:34>> [gasps]
19:34>> Let's do it.
19:35>> I'm asking the questions now.
19:37>> [laughter]
19:37>> Yeah, you're in charge. Yeah. Do I feel
19:39like I know who I am? Yeah. Um
19:42I I It's a constant thing that I'm
19:43working on.
19:45Um
19:46but
19:47I know a lot of things that matter to
19:49me.
19:49>> Okay.
19:50That's an interesting way of you
19:51answering that question. What percentage
19:53of knowingness do you think you're at?
19:55Cuz you're like, "I'm trying to figure
19:56things out." I know it's impossible to
19:58say
19:58>> Yeah, I mean, I feel like So, it's one
20:00of those things where uh
20:02So, I have my my oldest is a teenager
20:04now, and so it's always thinking about,
20:07you know, like no one knows as much as a
20:08teenager, right? [laughter]
20:09>> Yeah.
20:09>> You know, so we're in that phase of
20:10watching it. And so, I feel like the
20:12more I know or that the more I
20:14understand, the less I know. And so, I
20:16don't know, we'll say 20 25%.
20:17>> Okay. That's That's a fair number. Okay.
20:20And so, as you're searching for this,
20:21and I'm curious if there was a life
20:23event that happened where you started to
20:25feel more yourself.
20:27>> Yeah, I I got shingles, got super
20:30um
20:31at How old was I? 24.
20:33And
20:34>> Oh, god, last year. Keep going.
20:36>> [laughter]
20:37>> And uh
20:39yeah, and then I
20:40ended up I had all of my identity tied
20:43up in what I accomplished.
20:44>> Okay.
20:45>> And I was very good at what I did,
20:47right? And so, you know, I was 24 making
20:51a quarter million dollars a year. I had
20:53an audience. I had all these things.
20:54Productive, all of that. And after
20:56getting shingles
20:58uh and being on painkillers from that, I
21:01lost my ability to work, and I would sit
21:03down at my computer,
21:05and my brain would just not function.
21:07And I talk a lot about like flywheels
21:09and virtuous cycles. Everyone forgets
21:12those spin the other way, too. Right?
21:13There's
21:14There is a vicious cycle there. And I
21:17had so much of my of my identity tied up
21:19in
21:20what I could accomplish.
21:22That when I would sit down and couldn't
21:26get a task done in front of me, then it
21:28just spiraled from there. And And so,
21:30the worse I felt about myself,
21:31obviously, the
21:34the worse I performed and and all of
21:36that. So, I ended up spending at least 6
21:38months like deeply depressed. And then
21:42And it probably took me 2 years to come
21:44out of that.
21:45>> Okay.
21:45>> Yeah.
21:46>> That's really interesting.
21:46>> a
21:47That was a transformative moment.
21:49>> Not the answer I expected, but a good
21:50one. A really good one because a lot of
21:54people, and I I would say like
21:56oftentimes men more,
21:58we form our identities around the things
22:00we do, our utility into the world. And
22:02the And society tells us this, right?
22:05It's like you are more attractive as a
22:07potential mate in because you're more
22:09useful. You have more utility.
22:11>> Yeah.
22:11>> And so, you don't have to be the
22:13smartest or the best looking.
22:14>> You can make money. You
22:15remodel the house.
22:16>> Yes. You can fix the toilet. It's basic
22:18things. You can unclog the drain.
22:20>> Right.
22:20>> You're useful, and that's what we
22:22identify as. And so, when you strip that
22:25away, your job, your title, well, who am
22:27I?
22:28And that becomes a real dilemma. I've
22:30noticed that people, as they get older,
22:32men again, when they retire and they
22:34don't do anything anymore, their life
22:37value, their life force starts to
22:38diminish really fast.
22:40>> Oh, yeah.
22:40>> They have no more purpose, and they
22:42haven't developed like real hobbies or
22:44real entrepreneurship.
22:45>> sell their companies end up
22:46>> in this place, yeah.
22:47>> Right. And And they will start to
22:49deteriorate their health. I'm seeing it
22:51in my own father, kind of watching it in
22:52somewhat real time, is that once he
22:54retired, his body starting to fall
22:56apart. I'm like, "Dang, what happened?"
22:58Cuz he was this vital person who like,
23:00"I'll fix this. I'll carry this." And
23:02now he's a lot weaker. I know that's
23:03just part of aging, but I think he's
23:05lost a little bit of his purpose and his
23:07identity. And this is why I think it's
23:09so important to figure out who you are,
23:11okay? And so, a lot of times people will
23:14say, I want to work on my personal
23:15brand. I'm like, well, who are you?
23:16Well, I'm the plumber, I'm the
23:17electrician, I'm the computer science
23:18guy. I'm like, no, no, no, it's not what
23:20you do, who are you?
23:22It's a question that we're afraid to
23:24answer because we don't know. It's like
23:26staring into the void, and that
23:28unknowingness creates great anxiety
23:30within us.
23:31But I think that's a pretty good sign to
23:32go and shine the light on the darkness
23:34to see what's there.
23:36So, outside of you running your company,
23:39winning your awards, the
23:40accomplishments, and the the zeros
23:42you've added to your account, who are
23:44you? Who are you in this lifetime?
23:46Uh I always screw this part up because I
23:48mix the two. And usually when I'm doing
23:49a presentation,
23:51it's a Picasso quote, of course, one of
23:53my favorite artists of all time. Like a
23:56like a real maverick person in being up
23:58to do what he does, said something like
24:00this, "Purpose of life is to discover
24:02your gift, and the meaning is to give it
24:04away, the meaning of life."
24:06>> [clears throat]
24:06>> So, we have to figure out what our gift
24:07is. And we think it's something we have
24:10to invent or define,
24:12but I'll add to that quote saying, you
24:14are the gift.
24:16I believe each and every single one of
24:17us is born by design or by divine being
24:21to have a unique combination of things
24:22that make you really powerful.
24:25But what we do is we forget those unique
24:27interesting things, and then we conform
24:29to what everybody else is doing. So,
24:31we're purposely handicapping ourselves.
24:34I'll give an example. My nephew, he's
24:36autistic. And when he when we're we
24:38didn't know at the beginning cuz he was
24:39like, he's not looking at me, there's
24:41some interesting behavior going on. Or
24:43he'll come up, he gives you a weird
24:45sideways hug, he doesn't really touch
24:46you. So, there's some kind of physical
24:48challenges there. Or he'll punch you.
24:50I'm like, bro, what are you doing? No,
24:52you know? But once we knew he was he was
24:54autistic, we're like, okay, we can talk
24:56to him a very differently." And it turns
24:59out, like recently, he and his friends
25:01won a math champion or they're they came
25:03in second place in the like district
25:05championship at math. I'm like, "Damn."
25:07So, we measure him against what society
25:09considers normal and good and virtuous,
25:12he's doing terrible. But if we just look
25:14at it, he's really into science, he
25:15knows all the planets and geography,
25:17he's really freaking great with numbers.
25:19I'm like, "Yeah, that's his gift."
25:21And so, the the job, the duty of all
25:24parents is to forget about what you want
25:26and what you didn't accomplish in your
25:27life. Stop trying to live vicariously
25:29through your children, stop fixing your
25:30mistakes through them, but to honor them
25:32for who they are and to say like, "I
25:34need to support whatever this is." And
25:36not to have any preconceived ideas.
25:39And I think that's the beautiful part
25:40and that's the challenge of parents to
25:42say,
25:43"I had ideas of success for my children.
25:45I got to let that go because they get to
25:48live their life. I had my shot and I
25:50need to break the cycle."
25:51>> Right. How do you answer that question
25:53for yourself of who are you?
25:55>> Don't turn to I'm asking the question.
25:57What are you doing? [laughter]
25:58>> Well, we'll take turns answering that.
26:01>> I see my identity as a person who's who
26:04is who observes things.
26:06>> Okay.
26:06>> And and thinks about it, maybe not as
26:08profound as
26:10Seth or Seth Godin or somebody else, but
26:11I think about things and I I I I want to
26:14be able to express these ideas in as
26:17many forms as I want. Sometimes it helps
26:20people, sometimes it does nothing for
26:21them.
26:22But I'm on this pursuit of being the
26:24artist. And it's an identity I've denied
26:26myself for a really long time because
26:28I'm a designer and there's a big
26:29difference between design and art. But
26:31now, as I'm creating content, I do it
26:34for myself.
26:36>> What's
26:37what's the difference between design and
26:38art?
26:38>> And an artist and I I love this. Art is
26:41invitation to look at the world from a
26:42different perspective.
26:44And artists have emotions and feelings
26:46about things they create it, whether it
26:48be music or sculpture or painting. And
26:50if you experience a similar emotion,
26:52it's good art.
26:53>> Okay.
26:54>> So, if we look at it like that, design
26:55is is a process of achieving an outcome
26:59for a specific goal. So, it's not about
27:01what I want to say about the world. It's
27:03like you have a problem, I need to solve
27:04that problem. You're trying to get this
27:06kind of customer, are you trying to
27:07create this kind of feeling in your
27:08brand? This is what I try to design for
27:10you.
27:11The mistake that designers make is they
27:13think they're artists. It's about my
27:14vision, my perspective, and that's very
27:16egocentric. I'm trying to help you solve
27:18a problem. And so, as a guide to
27:22an ultimate outcome, I have my opinions,
27:25but it doesn't really matter. Matters
27:27what you feel and think and need.
27:29Because at the end of the day, I move on
27:31and you have to live with the things I
27:32create. So, if I create a really bad
27:34interface, I use colors that are not
27:36legible, your sales tank, and I walk
27:38away thinking, "That was my perspective
27:40in the world." Right?
27:42>> Yeah.
27:42>> There's a price to pay for being an
27:44artist.
27:45There's financial uncertainty.
27:47There's no guaranteed outcomes, and you
27:49often will suffer for your art. In the
27:51world, there are many artists, there are
27:52very few successful artists.
27:54>> Mhm.
27:55>> And And there's a big difference there.
27:56>> And And so, you're seeing art as that.
27:59You said the
28:01seeing a certain perspective, and then
28:04basically an invitation to to show other
28:06people that same perspective on the
28:07world they may not have seen otherwise.
28:09>> Yeah, it's it's an invitation for you to
28:10look at the world from a different
28:11perspective.
28:12>> yeah.
28:12>> So, when we when we move away from the
28:15realistic like paintings from
28:17Caravaggio,
28:18>> Mhm.
28:19>> [clears throat]
28:19>> and we move into the world of Van Gogh,
28:22it is a totally different way of looking
28:24at the world. Right? And if we take a
28:26Van Gogh painting and we turn it into a
28:28three-dimensional experience that you
28:29walk through, and you can literally walk
28:31into a painting, that is asking you to
28:34look at the world from a different point
28:35of view. When we listen to music or we
28:37watch a film that transports us another
28:39place in time and person,
28:41they're bringing us to look at the world
28:43from a different point of view.
28:45So, my my goal, and I think about this,
28:47and I'm trying to figure out how to say
28:49this part, but I think you have two
28:50priorities in life. Your first priority
28:53is
28:54to be true to yourself, and your second
28:56priority is to refer to priority number
28:58one.
28:59And so, my whole thing is, if helping
29:02you,
29:04making you happier, requires me to not
29:07be my truest self, then I'm not
29:08interested in that at all.
29:11And this is a hard thing for for people
29:12to hear because we've been trained to
29:14believe the opposite. It's like, we we
29:16have to look out for people. You're
29:17lacking empathy or sympathy. And I think
29:19I serve more people, especially myself,
29:22when I am myself.
29:23And I have many examples of any of that
29:25becomes interesting, you can talk about
29:26that and pick that apart, but I'm trying
29:29my best to just be my truest self.
29:32And so, whatever that comes across, some
29:34people listen to this and say this guy's
29:36full of himself, he doesn't know what
29:37he's talking about, he's too aggressive,
29:38he's too direct. Some people say he's
29:39really charming, interesting, breath of
29:41fresh air. I don't really care either
29:43way.
29:44I just need to be me.
29:45>> Right.
29:46I think that I don't know if this is to
29:49the level of like identity or something
29:51like that, but what I what I think about
29:54the gift that I want to bring to the
29:56world. I I think similar to you, I grew
29:58up in an environment where money was
30:00very scarce. And
30:02the amount of
30:04pain and anxiety and everything else
30:06that comes from that is um you know,
30:09people say money doesn't buy happiness,
30:10and I'm like, I don't know. It's like,
30:12>> [laughter]
30:12>> lack of money definitely uh causes
30:15>> Right.
30:16>> some negative side effects. So,
30:17somewhere in the spectrum, like money
30:18can be a positive thing. And I maybe
30:22from a observing the world perspective,
30:23like I look at things from almost like a
30:27physics perspective of like, why
30:30why did this business work? Why does
30:31this job get paid more money? Why like,
30:33why do you all of these things play out
30:35in a certain way? Why do you recurring
30:36revenue businesses sell to private
30:38equity for more than, you know, one-time
30:40purchase sure, any of those things. And
30:42what I've realized is anyone else who's
30:45built up a company has as well is that
30:47there's observable concrete things and
30:50concrete steps that you can do. And I
30:51feel like my mission in this life is to
30:54map that out for people so that they
30:56don't have to go through the same level
30:58level of pain and suffering. You look at
31:00like
31:00one of the single biggest reasons that
31:02like relationships fail, it's like
31:04conflict over money and all that. And
31:05you're like, "What if that just didn't
31:07have to be a thing?"
31:08And so when I think about the impact
31:10that I want to have on people and and
31:12and all that is I want to
31:14make as many of these things known. Like
31:16I I want to explain the laws of physics
31:18so that you go, "Oh,
31:20I just needed to do that? And now,
31:24you know, money doesn't have to be a
31:25point of stress for me, you know, and
31:27and all that." And so that's the thing
31:28that
31:30um
31:31I try to do as much as possible when
31:34like my identity or my brand or or all
31:37of that is
31:39or my my gift to the world would be, how
31:41do I make that as clear and as
31:43understandable as possible.
31:45>> Mhm.
31:45>> Um and like that's my way of being of
31:48service to others.
31:48>> Mhm.
31:51I like that.
31:54Well, I I think you provide
31:56um uh
31:58tools that have served you, but it
31:59happens to serve a lot of other people.
32:01>> Right.
32:01>> You could have chosen a lot of different
32:02things to make in this world and this is
32:04what I mean, sometimes I think about
32:06this.
32:07Did you choose your job or did the job
32:08choose you? Never for sure.
32:12And
32:12and I think a lot of times you thought
32:14you made that decision because free
32:15will's an exciting idea,
32:17but maybe that was your calling. Who
32:19knows? But you're still very young. You
32:21could kind of restart two more times and
32:24still be like, "Oh, this is what I was
32:26meant to do." I'll give you the example.
32:28So from my 20s on to my 40s,
32:32I thought my purpose was to make
32:34commercials and music videos and improve
32:36the world by making aesthetic things,
32:38especially in the motion space, right?
32:41And then I found that towards the end of
32:43that arc,
32:45I didn't get any more joy from doing
32:46this. And the the challenges got bigger,
32:48the budgets got bigger, and
32:50uh the consequences of making bad
32:52decisions got bigger, but it's like I
32:53don't enjoy this really. And then I
32:56realized the whole point was to make
32:58money.
32:59I just did it to make money. It just I
33:01found a gift that I did
33:04I was able to do this in with less
33:06effort than most people, so I got to
33:08reap the rewards of that gift. But now
33:11I'm faced with this idea like I don't
33:12need to make more money. What do I need
33:14to do?
33:15And that sent me into kind of an inner
33:18journey
33:19>> Yeah.
33:20>> about what is I want to do with my life.
33:22And it was by accident I found content
33:24creation as a as a form. So some some
33:27people's art is expressing through
33:28music, through physical things.
33:31My art is like words and ideas.
33:33And I just want to keep working on that.
33:36>> Yeah.
33:36That makes sense. We've talked a lot
33:38about what you stand for, right? And in
33:41both in brands or who you are as a
33:42person. Something I've heard you talk
33:44about in your content is
33:46like what you stand against. And how
33:48people are often very afraid. Like it's
33:51safe to say I stand for this.
33:52>> Yes, it is.
33:53>> Like all the things that we've talked
33:54about. No No one's going to listen to
33:55that and be like, oh those those
33:57you know? That sort of thing.
33:59But
34:01standing against something, that like
34:03actually one differentiates the brand,
34:05but two like it's it's risky. Like how
34:07do you think about that and how do you
34:09encourage brands to think about it? Or
34:11or individuals more so than brands?
34:13>> It's less risky than we think.
34:14>> Okay.
34:15>> It's something like
34:17I I'm I'm not going to tell you who the
34:19original person said this or the exact
34:20quote. I'll just share an idea that's
34:22not mine, which is nothing unites people
34:24more than a common cause.
34:26>> Mhm.
34:27>> So we can hate the same things, it's
34:29pretty cool. And we can see this play
34:30out in real time in politics right now
34:33that it seems less about what we stand
34:36for about but what we stand against.
34:38Right. And there's something very
34:39unifying about this. Both there are good
34:41parts and bad parts to this.
34:43Most companies or individuals say I
34:45stand for freedom. I stand for equality.
34:47I'm like yeah, cool, cool.
34:49>> Or it's like saying I'm having the
34:50values of integrity, honesty, or
34:52whatever and you're like
34:53>> Like Enron? Okay.
34:55>> [laughter]
34:55>> So winds up being these empty
34:57platitudes.
34:58>> Yeah.
34:58>> So if you stand for something that no
35:00one can disagree with then do you stand
35:02for anything? Probably not. So then we
35:05say like what's the opposite of that? So
35:07if you're trying to make sure people
35:09have safe drinking water, cool. We
35:11believe in that. What's the opposite of
35:13that? Well, disease, safety,
35:16um and all kinds of things like when we
35:18don't have
35:19proper hydration or nutrients in our
35:21body, then we're dealing with the first
35:24tier which is health.
35:25>> Mhm.
35:26>> And [clears throat] we want to move
35:26people along because I believe if my
35:28neighbors in the broadest sense of that
35:31definition are doing better, the world's
35:33a better place. It's safer.
35:34It's like when they don't have more want
35:37then
35:38my family and the people I care about
35:40don't have to worry about people taking
35:42things away.
35:43>> Right.
35:44>> And it's better this way, yeah?
35:46Uh so I I I tell people if you want to
35:49develop your personal brand,
35:51A, you need to know something
35:53uh your what your keyword is. Like
35:55what you want to be associated with. So
35:57when people think of this word, they
35:59think of me.
36:00This is really important, okay? So they
36:02think of this and they think of me.
36:04And then then on the opposite side of
36:06that is who is your nemesis? What are
36:09you trying to rid the world of? It's
36:11like when you go to sleep at night, what
36:13is the thing that bothers you about the
36:15way things work? And it doesn't have to
36:17be a person. It probably shouldn't be a
36:19person. An idea, a process, a system,
36:22something like that. And you need to be
36:24able to articulate that. And they have
36:25to work against what you want to be
36:27known for.
36:28These are really important components.
36:30And somebody had recently debated to me,
36:34"Well, I don't like this idea. It seems
36:35so American or antagonistic or it seems
36:38so aggressive to have an enemy. I want
36:40to do this without it." You can.
36:43It is not what I teach and it is not
36:44what I've been able to observe.
36:46>> resonate to the same extent.
36:47>> I think so and I think of the strongest
36:49brands in the world, they have a pretty
36:50clearly defined mission that they're on.
36:53They're trying to achieve this result
36:55while getting or getting rid of
36:56something else. So, if there's a program
36:59to feed children, what are they trying
37:00to end? Probably poverty.
37:02>> Yeah.
37:03>> Right? That that seems to make a lot of
37:04sense. And as a comic book nerd myself,
37:07I've observed this and you might have a
37:09different perspective on this is who are
37:11the most enduring popular superheroes?
37:14You can probably name a few. Who are
37:15they?
37:16>> Batman, Superman, [clears throat]
37:16Spider-Man.
37:17>> There's a lot of man in here, but yes.
37:19Yeah.
37:20>> And and and maybe even Superman. Okay.
37:23So, from the DC universe, this is kind
37:24of wild. They have some of the most
37:26iconic characters. They're just designed
37:28really well and it seems like more of
37:31the world knows about the DC characters
37:33ish.
37:34And then Marvel is like more successful,
37:37doesn't have the same iconic characters.
37:39It's really weird. Okay, here's my
37:41observation.
37:43The reason why heroes are the heroes
37:45that break through that the threshold or
37:48into like our consciousness is
37:51they have great enemies.
37:54>> Mhm.
37:55>> So, who's who's Batman's enemy?
37:57>> The Joker.
37:58>> The Joker. The probably his primary He
38:01has a lot. He has a rogues' gallery. And
38:03and in fact, when you think about it,
38:05when the creators of these characters
38:08build their world, the better the
38:09enemies, the better the hero cuz the
38:11hero needs to fight for something.
38:13>> And it's even bigger than the individual
38:15enemy. It's it's the you know, what
38:17Gotham has become like the the crime the
38:20>> Yeah.
38:20>> like
38:20>> The city is a character in in this whole
38:22thing and that is also part of the
38:24personal brand.
38:25So, and when we look at Batman and we
38:27look at the design of the Joker, there's
38:29something interesting about this.
38:31Batman's a billionaire.
38:33Uh he had a tragic beginning. Uh he's uh
38:36uh kind of a physical specimen. He's the
38:39world's greatest detective. So, he's not
38:40only smart, he's strong and rich. Uh you
38:44know, like the joke in the movie was
38:45like, "Yeah, billionaire philanthropist,
38:47what's your problem?" Billionaire
38:49playboy philanthropist, what's your
38:50problem, right?
38:52Who's the Joker?
38:53The Joker has a has a mysterious origin.
38:56He's a criminal. He's chaotic. And
39:00he's
39:00intellectually superior to Batman
39:03but physically inferior.
39:05So, these heroes and these villains tend
39:07to be the equal and opposite of each
39:08other.
39:09It's like I'm a big fan of the yin yang
39:11symbol, equal and opposite, they're
39:13balanced. So, if you look at Superman,
39:15his biggest enemy is Lex Luthor.
39:18He's an alien, he's human. He's strong,
39:20he's dumb as a brick.
39:22Lex is a genius. Right. He's weak and
39:24rich. And he's physically very weak.
39:27So, this is kind of kind of interesting.
39:29So, when we look at world building
39:32we look at the two characters, they're
39:33not separate, they're part of the world.
39:36So, when we look at the world of you,
39:38your brand, you have what you perceive
39:40as your strengths
39:41but you also have the shadow side, which
39:43is the part that we hide.
39:45And so, if I were to tell you the Blue
39:47Beetle, can you name the Blue Beetle's
39:48enemy?
39:49>> No.
39:49>> I couldn't either cuz I don't know.
39:51That's the problem.
39:52>> Right.
39:53>> So, sometimes they overpower someone and
39:55then they don't give them a strong
39:57counterpart. They're constantly foils
39:59each other. So, in the world of fiction,
40:03these two components build that world.
40:05You take away one, it becomes much
40:07weaker. So, what I try to help people do
40:09is look into your shadow self, the
40:11things that you feel great shame or
40:14guilt or anxiety around and you've been
40:16hiding for a really long time cuz you
40:18feel the world will not accept you. Once
40:20you accept that, the world will love
40:22you.
40:23And it's hard deep work here.
40:25>> Mhm.
40:26>> [clears throat]
40:27>> Okay, so if we bring this into a
40:28personal brand,
40:30like and talking about what you stand
40:32for,
40:33yeah, is there an example that comes to
40:34mind or or an individual who's done this
40:36well where they say this is what I stand
40:38for and this is what I stand against?
40:40>> And it's not like and people are do they
40:43have a team, right? I'm like, no. They
40:45exist and their belief systems drive
40:48their words and their actions and we
40:50start to see it. And the people who are
40:52very consistent at doing this and
40:54they're not trying to do a thousand
40:55different things, it becomes very easy
40:56for us to see it.
40:58My favorite example is Bryan Johnson.
41:00He's the most measured man,
41:02>> right?
41:03>> right? He's a pretty radical
41:05millionaire, billionaire, I don't know
41:06how much. He's got a lot of money. He is
41:08trying to live longer.
41:09>> Mhm.
41:10>> But not just live longer. So we can say
41:11like what is the keyword he wants to be
41:13associated with?
41:14>> What would you say?
41:15>> longevity
41:15>> longevity
41:16>> Yeah.
41:16>> Or aging reversal.
41:18>> Yeah.
41:18>> Something like that. So naturally what
41:20is the enemy?
41:21>> time
41:22>> Time or you might say death.
41:24>> Right.
41:24>> it real simple. He's not fighting time,
41:27he's just trying to cheat death.
41:28>> Yeah. I mean his if you had a bumper
41:30sticker,
41:31>> Yeah.
41:31>> don't die.
41:32>> Don't die. Well, that's the third
41:33component to the three parts, which is
41:35you have what you stand for, you have
41:37what you stand against and you have a
41:39line, a rallying cry, a tagline,
41:42something that unites these two things.
41:44So don't die tells you the enemy and
41:46what he stands for. We can infer all the
41:48meaning from that.
41:49>> Mhm.
41:49>> So when we
41:50I was asked this recently on a podcast,
41:52I stumbled through it. I'm like, let me
41:53make up for that right now. They're
41:55like, "Well, Chris, what's your
41:56triangle?
41:57What are your three components? What are
41:58you standing for?"
41:59Well,
42:00I I I don't know a better word. I hate
42:03this word, but I'm going to say it, like
42:05truly authentic
42:07a personal brand.
42:09That's what I want to be known for. And
42:11the opposite of that is some form of
42:12masking.
42:14>> [clears throat]
42:14>> So then my tagline is un bland yourself.
42:17And that should explain those two
42:18concepts. The cool thing is
42:20the only part that people see
42:22is the bumper sticker part.
42:25But we can infer the meaning from that.
42:27>> Right.
42:28>> And so these three things have to work
42:30in concert in my mind, otherwise it's a
42:32two-legged table.
42:33>> Okay, so if we workshop this
42:36going back to my brand um
42:38>> Oh, it's all about you.
42:39>> It's all it's all about
42:40>> me.
42:40>> It's all about
42:41>> [laughter]
42:41>> Nathan Barry show.
42:43>> My god, they go to this guy.
42:45This is incredible. [laughter]
42:46Chelsea, I don't know how you deal with
42:47this.
42:48>> Yeah. What I've said is the the mission
42:50for the company and this is my
42:51individual mission as well. Like we
42:52exist to help creators earn a living.
42:54And so it's very pi and it's like we
42:58want clean water. Like of course, like
42:59great. There's everything is positive
43:01about that. Um but there's nothing in
43:03there that
43:04stands against.
43:06Um and so I'm trying to think of
43:08where where you would get to I guess you
43:11you'd you know, you'd be against
43:12poverty, you'd be against um
43:15uh like ignorance, right? Cuz a lot of
43:17the way that I believe you achieve this
43:19is not working harder, it's
43:20understanding the physics of
43:22>> Your enemy could be burnout.
43:24>> Yeah, it could be yeah, burnout um all
43:26of those things. But how else would you
43:28would you think about that? Or like what
43:29questions would you ask to draw out
43:30>> This is excellent. Okay. What you do as
43:32a company is different than who you are.
43:34>> Okay.
43:35>> So we have to do like a little palate
43:36cleanser and just forget that the
43:38company exists.
43:39Because over time you might be selling
43:42and buying companies and you're not
43:44going to change who you are in that
43:45process. We have to figure out who you
43:47are and what you stand for and the
43:49company is a mirror to this, but it's
43:51not the driver of this.
43:53Okay, so my company is called the
43:55future. I'm not talking about past,
43:56present, or future. I'm not
43:58I am just me. The company collects the
44:01residuals of me being me. And it's a
44:03very different way of running a a or
44:05building a brand because it's very
44:07founder-focused. Because people are
44:08like, how do you differentiate between
44:10what The Futur makes posts and what
44:12Chris Do posts? I'm like, well, I write
44:14whatever I want to write, I say whatever
44:16I want to say, and some team collects
44:18those parts, re-packages it, and calls
44:20it The Futur.
44:21It's not the other way around. So, I
44:23can't I have to emphasize this a little
44:25bit because people who are in real
44:26estate people or who are into
44:30uh investment uh or or what is it
44:32called? Venture capital? Their whole
44:34identities are on moving money. It's
44:35like, no, it's not. There's something
44:37bigger that you believe in, and there's
44:39a story there
44:40that is connected to your origin, that
44:42if you're able to tell, then all the
44:44parts will make sense.
44:46Why is it important for me to end this
44:49masking thing?
44:51Okay, cuz first of all, I see a lot of
44:52suffering in the world, and suffering is
44:54like probably lowercase S here. There's
44:57this internal struggle in all of us that
45:00is fighting for control of who gets to
45:02live this life. The real you or the
45:04persona you've adopted, and it's really
45:07hard to know which is which, especially
45:08if you've been living in the persona for
45:10a really long time.
45:11Why this matters to me is cuz I'm I'm a
45:14ref- refugee to America from Vietnam,
45:17and I grew up English is my second
45:19language. I don't understand the culture
45:20and the customs, and I'm in fights. I'm
45:23I'm picked on, and so I retreat inward
45:26because I'm also an introvert.
45:29And for a long time, I don't have a
45:30voice, I don't have an identity.
45:32I'm trying to disappear.
45:35And so, there's a lot of healing that I
45:37had to go through I had to go through to
45:38figure out who I'm supposed to be in
45:39this life. Some some sadness, some
45:41depression, and once I worked my way
45:43out, it's like, I don't want anyone else
45:44to go through that. That's important to
45:46me. So, over the course of however long
45:49I live, I might build different
45:50companies, different products,
45:52but they're all going to be a reflection
45:53of this philosophy.
45:55I'm just trying to help people
45:57self-actualize.
45:59>> Yeah.
46:00I mean, and that's how I feel as well.
46:01Like the the
46:03the company mission and everything else
46:05is just an expression of
46:07like an outward expression of the things
46:09that I believe in the impact that I want
46:10to have on the world.
46:11>> Yeah.
46:12>> And that's where I feel like I don't
46:14resonate with so many entrepreneurs cuz
46:15they're like, "Oh, I built this company
46:16and I exited that and I'm doing these
46:18other things and I run all of these
46:19things." And I'm like, "No, this company
46:21is like
46:22how I plan to impact the world." And
46:24that's why I'm 13 years into one company
46:26and
46:27in 10 years, I fully expect that I will
46:29be doing, you know, it might have a
46:31slightly different shape, but I will be
46:33doing basically the same thing of
46:35helping people um
46:37yeah, reach their reach their full
46:39potential and and get to this point
46:40where they not only are having that
46:43financial impact for the themselves and
46:44their family, but then it's turning into
46:46something for many more people.
46:48>> Do Would you consider yourself as having
46:50some degree of self-awareness?
46:52>> I think so.
46:52>> Okay. So, if I spent a couple hours with
46:54you and asked you a couple of questions
46:55and we weren't being taped and all that
46:57stuff, I could probably help you surface
47:00this pretty quickly. And and as long as
47:02you're willing to tell truth and
47:04understand a little little bit about who
47:06you are, we can figure it out. It's
47:07like, "Oh, it's a lot of these things."
47:08And eventually find it. You're like,
47:09"Wow, I didn't know that was there." And
47:11so, often times, we can see other
47:13people's problems really clearly. We
47:15can't see our own thing. It's very
47:17difficult. Anybody's ever built their
47:18identity or messaging for their company,
47:20it's the longest hardest thing and it
47:22usually sucks.
47:23>> Right.
47:23>> Cuz we're changing our mind all the
47:24time.
47:25So, one one clue on this is a friend of
47:28mine, Blair Enns, said something to to
47:30this effect. He says, "All strategy is
47:32autobiographical."
47:34We dispense advice and strategies based
47:38on what's worked for us.
47:40Okay? You created something because you
47:42had a problem and you dealt with it.
47:44Sometimes the problem is the problem and
47:46sometimes there's two layers deeper than
47:48that that's the real problem.
47:51So, through some ex- excavation, through
47:53some listening, through some empathy, we
47:55can find that problem pretty quickly. We
47:57can start to understand what motivates
47:59you, what drives you, and why you're
48:01trying to correct for something that's
48:02happened to you, some wrong that you've
48:04perceived in the world, either done to
48:06you or that you experience that you're
48:07trying to make right.
48:08>> Mhm.
48:09>> As I say that, I can see your eyes
48:10looking somewhere, searching your memory
48:12banks, possibly.
48:13>> Yeah, I'm I'm just thinking through
48:15uh
48:17Yeah, it's it's basically my biggest
48:20thing that I've realized is
48:21how much I spent my childhood feeling
48:24like I was a burden on other people.
48:25>> Mhm.
48:26>> And so going through this arc of
48:29first
48:30you know, hitting that feeling and not
48:33knowing what to do about it at all,
48:34right? And then becoming acutely aware
48:37of money and we know everything that
48:40came from that, how to like become
48:44self-sufficient.
48:45Right? And so hearing Jason Fried from
48:47Basecamp say making money is a skill
48:50that you can get better at with
48:51deliberate practice. I heard that and
48:52like I was like wait. Seriously? Right?
48:55And so then it was like everything is
48:56within my my power. And then spending a
48:58really a lot of time in the okay, my
49:01identity and my value and all of that is
49:03based on the money that I make, the
49:05impact that I have on other people.
49:07>> Yeah.
49:07>> And the hard thing about that
49:10there's a lot of hard things, but one of
49:11them is that then I found that I would
49:14do the inverse
49:14>> your paper? You mind if I This is really
49:16weird. No, I want to write in your
49:18notebook and I'll map some of this in
49:20case something comes out, all right?
49:22Is that okay?
49:23>> Yeah, go ahead.
49:23>> I know it's weird. Never touch my
49:24notebook or my pen, but [laughter] here
49:26we go. Okay, keep talking. Don't ignore
49:27everything I may or may not be writing
49:29down.
49:29>> And so what I ended up doing is I found
49:32that there were two people in my life
49:33that I deeply resented.
49:35And that was uh my stepdad
49:38and my younger brother.
49:40And the reason is that I perceived them
49:43both as
49:45um
49:46being burdens on my mom.
49:49And so like I watched my mom struggle
49:51with finances, all of this, take care of
49:53all of us kids, you know, everything,
49:55and then like finally achieve her own
49:57after my parents got divorced, like
49:58finally achieve her own independence.
50:00And uh she became a nurse, got her
50:03master's in nursing, like got to the
50:04point where she was making um a really
50:07meaningful amount of money and all this
50:08and like doing this into her like late
50:1050s and 60s and starting a new career
50:12and and doing all of this.
50:14And then marrying someone who was a
50:16paraplegic. Um my brother is still
50:18living with her, you know, like not
50:21getting a driver's license, like it's
50:21just a bunch of these things and I'm
50:22like
50:23you know, so so frustrated at both of
50:26them that like they took all of her time
50:27and attention. And because I like I base
50:31so much value around like what you
50:32create, the independence that you have,
50:33not being a burden. There was something
50:35like I don't know, it's probably 4 years
50:37ago, 5 years ago, or something. Um I
50:39realized that like
50:41like my mom's gift to the world
50:44is to serve and to take care of people.
50:47And so I was like as I deeply resented
50:50the people that she was like doing her
50:52greatest expression of love to take care
50:54of. Probably the hardest thing for me is
50:57to then allow myself to be taken care of
51:00or to be a burden on someone else. And
51:02so like it's it's like full circle of
51:05where it's like, yeah, I I can achieve
51:06this level of independence.
51:08But then do you get to the point where
51:09it's like, oh, I I have value outside of
51:11what I accomplish. I can allow myself to
51:14be taken care of by other people. I can
51:15fully exist. And I can fully accept
51:17people who
51:19um
51:20you know, like my stepdad who like he
51:22needed someone to care for him, right?
51:23He's um confined to a wheelchair, right?
51:25All of those things. So long answer to
51:28and and a bit of a ramble, but um that's
51:30some of the arc that I went on.
51:32>> It's fascinating.
51:34Have you shared this before?
51:35>> Uh
51:37a little bit, not not in detail.
51:39>> Uh is your stepdad still alive?
51:41>> No, he passed away uh 4 years ago.
51:43>> Oh, okay. The paraplegic?
51:45>> Uh-huh.
51:46>> Have you said this prior to him passing
51:47away?
51:48>> Yeah. I was able to tell him.
51:50>> You told him?
51:52>> Yep. And at his uh hospital bed.
51:56>> What compelled you to tell your
51:57stepfather on his deathbed, quite
51:59literally,
52:00that
52:01you resented him for
52:03being a burden to your mom?
52:05>> I think there's things that you
52:07don't want to tell someone because of
52:10the impact or the burden that it would
52:12place on them or how it make them feel.
52:15And the thing that I realized is most
52:17things, if you've been around someone
52:19for a long time, most things you're
52:20like, "Oh, I probably want to die. I
52:21shouldn't tell them this or that sort of
52:23thing." They already know.
52:24You told them like
52:27500 tiny little ways over time in how
52:31you acted how like the little things,
52:33right?
52:34And so what I realized is I think that I
52:38I think I told him in 500 little ways
52:41and he felt that.
52:43And
52:44so I told him in the opposite.
52:46Um
52:52I told him that I was so grateful
52:55that he was in
52:57my life and my mom's life
52:59because
53:01I was able
53:04to see my mom through him
53:07express like the truest nature
53:11of who she is.
53:12>> Mhm.
53:13>> And he brought that out of her.
53:17And so
53:18it was this really special moment
53:20to be able to invert that
53:23and to basically say
53:28not to place a burden on him but to
53:30relieve him of that because this is the
53:31thing that I told him a thousand times I
53:33see in subtle ways but to say like, "No,
53:35actually I see it
53:37the complete opposite now."
53:38>> Mhm.
53:39Thanks for sharing that story and for
53:41being real with me.
53:42>> Yeah. Thanks for drawing it out.
53:44>> Thanks.
53:44>> [laughter]
53:44>> Oh, we're not done with the drawing yet.
53:49Okay.
53:50Um I think in that moment I'm going to
53:51make a lot of assumptions cuz I don't
53:53know you well at all. So, you can say
53:55Yeah, guys, you don't know anything
53:56about nothing. But
53:57>> Just throwing water in your
53:59>> This is not the podcast I signed up for.
54:01I think in that moment um you've
54:04ascended.
54:06Because you kind of let something that's
54:09been eating you up instead of just
54:11releasing on him, you kind of released
54:13him of this thing. And I think you did
54:16it for him, you did it for you, and
54:18maybe you did it for your mom. I don't
54:20know.
54:20>> Yeah.
54:21>> But we were talking about enemies and
54:24what you what you stand for.
54:27My my therapist had asked me this many
54:28years ago. He goes, "I'm curious about
54:30your wife. Is she anything like you?"
54:31I'm like, "We're the exact opposite."
54:33We're the exact opposite in every single
54:35way I can imagine. But we work. So,
54:38she's like, "I have this weird theory
54:40about people.
54:41It's like they're brought into our lives
54:42to teach us something."
54:44And and that sounds depending on how you
54:46interpret that, it could be a negative.
54:49It's doesn't sound like a positive to
54:50me.
54:51But if you think of your mom's greatest
54:54gift is the her expression of love is to
54:56take care of people, I think your
54:58stepfather came into her life so she can
55:00express her gift.
55:02Like Superman is Superman because of
55:03Lex. And so, we we just see it and I I
55:06think maybe who knows this will probably
55:09be another session.
55:10But there was a child inside of you who
55:12was like, "Mom, what about us?"
55:14>> Mhm.
55:14>> Or like I I will work to support you,
55:16but then now you're supporting this
55:17other random dude. You know, what up
55:19what up with that? But you have to
55:22believe somewhere that your mom found
55:24somebody who completed her in a way that
55:26you could not understand because you
55:28don't have the same lens into the world.
55:31>> Right.
55:32>> And perhaps your mom doesn't shine as
55:33bright without him. Who knows? But in
55:35that moment that you're able to flip
55:37this is the thing I try to help people
55:39with. But not from an external point,
55:41from an internal point. Now, imagine
55:43this entire conversation happening
55:44inside your heart and your brain, where
55:46you feel like I'm a caretaker, and
55:49there's this other side where it's like
55:51I need to be taken care of, and they're
55:53in conflict with each other.
55:54And the resolution that you found was
55:56that they're not in conflict, they're
55:58they're complementary to one another. I
56:01don't know.
56:02>> No, it's absolutely like the my uh
56:05biggest expression of my favorite thing
56:06to do is take care of people and to
56:08serve them and all of that. And then my
56:10>> is fascinating.
56:11>> my other favorite thing is to be taken
56:13care of.
56:13>> Okay, this is wonderful. Look at this.
56:15[laughter] Look at this. I mean, I don't
56:17know what happened. Forget about it.
56:19Entrepreneurship here. Your whole
56:21company and your whole ethos is to take
56:23care of other people and help them in
56:24their business. So, what if the world
56:26had no problems to take care of? You'd
56:28be out of purpose.
56:29>> Yeah.
56:30>> So, in the thing that you saw in your
56:32stepfather, it's like you need that to
56:34exist.
56:36And in your own way, a very different
56:38way, you're helping a lot of other
56:40people, and the greater their problem,
56:42the greater of service you can become.
56:45So, I wrote down a couple of words here.
56:46You've mentioned the word burden like
56:48many, many times. I wasn't counting, but
56:49like eight or nine times. So, that that
56:52word has to be somewhere in this
56:54world of yours. You mentioned word
56:56impact slightly, and then I started to
56:58to
56:59um pull other words out of this like
57:01contribution, carry your weight, dead
57:03weight, this feeling of resentment, and
57:05this idea of the greatest expression of
57:07love is blank, blank, blank. We don't
57:09know.
57:09>> Mhm.
57:09>> Okay? So, I wonder if something it's
57:12like the line is something This is
57:14horrible. We're just kind of
57:15workshopping it, but maybe something
57:17about never be a burden. Never feel like
57:19a burden.
57:20Maybe the feeling is more important.
57:22>> Mhm. Never feel like a burden.
57:24>> Yeah. That could be the the There's
57:27maybe something in there because I think
57:28the word burden or unburdened or
57:30something like that. Like as as a man
57:34I would feel horrible if everyone had to
57:37take care of me cuz I was not competent,
57:39unable to, you know? And clearly the
57:42paraplegic guy, he had his own battles
57:44to deal with. It's not like he chose to
57:45just loaf around and eat potato chips.
57:47You know, it was life dealt him a set of
57:49cards and he played the cards as best as
57:51he could.
57:52But I I do have similar reactions to you
57:55when I see people and like you're not
57:56holding up your end of the bargain.
57:59And maybe that's also something else. We
58:00have strong conviction about how we're
58:02supposed to contribute, that we should
58:03give more than we take. And in this
58:05perspective, someone was taking more
58:07than they were able to give.
58:09In the way that we can see on the
58:10dimension that we're looking at.
58:11>> Yeah, and I think that
58:13the thing about the burden is that it's
58:17it's a full circle thing because
58:20if I want to help people go on the same
58:21journey that I did or that I'm going on,
58:24it's
58:25to have all of the tools and the mindset
58:28and everything else so that they don't
58:30have to be a burden on other people and
58:31so they can fully take care of
58:32themselves and them around them and and
58:34all of that.
58:36And then
58:38to also be able to set that aside and be
58:40willing to be a burden on someone and be
58:43willing to accept that help. Right? Cuz
58:45that's the hard thing. I thought, if you
58:47would ask me,
58:49I don't know, five five years ago, 10
58:50years ago, somewhere in there, I would
58:52have thought like, okay, I get me all
58:54the tools, all of that, I will get to
58:56this point. I'm now um
58:59you know, fully of service to others.
59:01Uh I would actually keep a little bit of
59:03a scorecard. Like if I the more generous
59:05I am, the more I know that I have served
59:07you more than you've served me and I can
59:09know that I'm not a burden. And so I
59:11would have thought like, okay, that is
59:12the some self-actualization moment.
59:15And then the the arc in this is like,
59:17oh, to come all the way back to a point
59:20where it's like, oh, I have value as an
59:21individual
59:23even if I can't even if I am a burden on
59:24people and to be willing to accept
59:26>> Mhm. that help and everything from
59:28>> Mhm.
59:29Uh I'm going to return your notebook to
59:30you.
59:31>> [laughter]
59:31>> You can have your my notebook back. But
59:34I was sitting there thinking
59:36the word burden is a judging word. It's
59:38a very violent word.
59:39>> It is, yeah.
59:40>> Right? Because I wonder if when we see
59:42ourselves being a burden to someone else
59:44because of your feelings towards people
59:46in your life like your stepfather
59:48who was a burden to your mom
59:50>> Mhm.
59:50>> drained her resources and her energy and
59:52her love and everything that she could
59:54give well we're going to have a pretty
59:56negative feeling about that word.
59:58>> Right.
59:58>> So when someone wants to help you
1:00:00they want to serve you but you won't let
1:00:02them because you see yourself as a
1:00:04burden and so the last thing you want to
1:00:06do is to become the person you had a lot
1:00:08of resentment towards.
1:00:09>> Right.
1:00:09>> So I think what we want to do is find
1:00:12some neutral word to describe what this
1:00:14is.
1:00:16And then then you could be liberated
1:00:17from this idea.
1:00:18>> Right.
1:00:19>> And I struggle with this too because I I
1:00:21think
1:00:22I need to take care of people and when
1:00:24somebody say I can help you do this I in
1:00:26my mind I'm like please but I'm like no,
1:00:28I got this. You know, it's not it's not
1:00:30out of pride. It's just
1:00:32it's just we're afraid of receiving help
1:00:34for whatever reasons cuz there's an an
1:00:36emotional charge against receiving help.
1:00:39So the people who I consider some of my
1:00:41closest friends are the ones who push
1:00:44past my resistance and they're like well
1:00:46I'm doing it anyways.
1:00:47>> Right.
1:00:48>> I'm picking you up tomorrow at 4:00 a.m.
1:00:50and I will take you to the airport. I'll
1:00:51make sure you get on this plane or
1:00:52train. I'm like
1:00:53>> [laughter]
1:00:54>> You you you you care about me? I'm like
1:00:56God, you know and they just push past
1:00:58that. And I think um I know this
1:01:01conversation spiraled into a thousand
1:01:03different directions. There I think
1:01:05there's like toxic masculinity and I
1:01:07don't know what the opposite version of
1:01:09that is but I think men need to be able
1:01:11to understand with each other. We're
1:01:13often hard it's we find it difficult to
1:01:15ask for help and to receive help but to
1:01:17understand like I'm going to giving you
1:01:18help regardless.
1:01:20Just knowing that underneath that you
1:01:21really do want help.
1:01:22>> Right. And not to be a jerk about it.
1:01:25So, there's something there.
1:01:26>> Well, I think that the thing that I want
1:01:27to end on is you have this idea that you
1:01:30talked about of
1:01:31how the more perfect someone looks
1:01:33online,
1:01:34>> Yeah.
1:01:34>> the less we trust them.
1:01:35>> Yeah.
1:01:36>> And that's part of why like I'm so
1:01:38excited to take this conversation the
1:01:39place that we did, right? Because it's
1:01:41just like let's you talk about being
1:01:43authentic. I'm pretty sure this is an un
1:01:45like un-bland conversation, you know?
1:01:48>> [laughter]
1:01:48>> Um
1:01:49So, but how do you bring this level of
1:01:52vulnerability and like authenticness and
1:01:55the imperfections through into the brand
1:01:58or the content that you let people see?
1:02:00>> Okay.
1:02:01I kind of look at it like this. There
1:02:03There was an article written in Harvard
1:02:05Business Review. I'm I'm I'm forgetting
1:02:07the the two women's name, but they they
1:02:09called something like the trust
1:02:11triangle. Like why we trust some people
1:02:13more than other people. And what we're
1:02:15really trading on is trust everywhere we
1:02:17go. You buy a car or a
1:02:20or a jacket because you trust that
1:02:22person or that brand. This is how we we
1:02:24do things. We trust this food is going
1:02:26to be okay. It's not going to kill us,
1:02:27right?
1:02:28The trust triangle starts with the top
1:02:29part, which is authenticity. And it's a
1:02:31very broad generic word that's being
1:02:33overused and misused a lot, but it's
1:02:34really are you who you say you are?
1:02:36That's it. And a lot of us are not.
1:02:39That's my mission is to close that gap
1:02:41between this inauthentic self and the
1:02:43real you. And if we can do that, we're
1:02:45starting off really great. Second part
1:02:47to the trust triangle is this word they
1:02:49use empathy, but they don't use it the
1:02:50way that we use it. The The word empathy
1:02:53to them is are you looking out for me?
1:02:55Do I feel like Nathan's looking out for
1:02:57me? Do I feel like Chris is
1:03:00got my best intentions at in his heart?
1:03:02And the last one is and it's weird one
1:03:04cuz it's like, what? It's logic.
1:03:07Do you talk about things in a way that I
1:03:09can follow?
1:03:10>> Mhm.
1:03:10>> So, if we look at someone who's on stage
1:03:13and we feel like they're being
1:03:13performative
1:03:15and they're presenting themselves to be
1:03:16more perfect life, perfect wife, perfect
1:03:19everything. Everything's perfect. I'm
1:03:20like, "Ew." Something about us feels
1:03:22we're like it's off. It's off. All their
1:03:25stories are too manufactured, too
1:03:27polished, and it it gives us the ick
1:03:28feel. So, already we're we're losing
1:03:30trust. And then they're talking about
1:03:32something we can feel like, "Oh, you're
1:03:34going to bring and rope me into a book
1:03:36or a course or a masterclass or a
1:03:37cohort." I already can just feel it.
1:03:39We're not Yeah, we can feel the pitch a
1:03:41mile away.
1:03:42It's like they think we can't see the
1:03:44train, but we can It's like a flatline.
1:03:46I can see it coming. It's coming. I
1:03:47already know. So, we've lost trust on
1:03:49two things. And and then they're like
1:03:51able to logically tell us, "Well, I'll
1:03:53agitate the pain, and the results are
1:03:54great." We see that. You need all three
1:03:56components to come together in harmony
1:03:59for you to have trust.
1:04:01So, when we're being overly polished, it
1:04:05first of all requires a lot of mental
1:04:07and spiritual energy to hold something
1:04:09up, right? It's like we got to clean the
1:04:11house before everybody gets here. We got
1:04:12to make sure the lens and the makeup and
1:04:14the beauty filters and all that kind of
1:04:15stuff is perfect. It requires so much
1:04:16energy. And I I don't know about you. I
1:04:19have finite energy, and I want to spend
1:04:21all of my energy
1:04:23being my truest self.
1:04:24So, if I divert that energy away, then
1:04:27what happens to me being in this moment,
1:04:29connecting or listening to you? It's
1:04:31diminished, and I don't want to do that.
1:04:33And it requires some level of bravery to
1:04:36to speak truth, to be able to say what's
1:04:40on your mind in a way that's not violent
1:04:42to other people. It it's a skill, just
1:04:44like how
1:04:45>> Jason Fried was talking about making
1:04:46money is a skill.
1:04:47>> I think learning how to use your
1:04:49authentic true voice is a skill. Yeah.
1:04:51Requires practice.
1:04:52>> If you were to give people
1:04:54maybe one question to sit with or a
1:04:56place to start if they're going to sit
1:04:57down with their journal,
1:04:59anything come to mind?
1:05:01>> Wow. Um I have talked a a lot about
1:05:04shadow self and doing this, and I
1:05:05realize how hard this is. So, I don't
1:05:08want to send people down that path
1:05:09because they'll try and like, "This is
1:05:11too weird. It's too hard. I I need my
1:05:13therapist next to me. I need I need some
1:05:15support. So, I'll I'll do it
1:05:17differently. I want to give them a quick
1:05:18win.
1:05:19So, the first thing I can do is to have
1:05:21people figure out their voice phrase.
1:05:25So, I it it turns out like it's a pretty
1:05:27good compass as to who you are and it's
1:05:29your North Star. So, we the exercise is
1:05:32write down
1:05:34how you sound to the world as many
1:05:36different words as you as you can write
1:05:38and just write without editing, without
1:05:40thinking, without curating. And if you
1:05:42get stuck, say, "Well, how would my
1:05:44friend describe me as my voice?"
1:05:46How would my employee or my boss or my
1:05:49partner, my parent, my sibling describe
1:05:52my voice?
1:05:54And sometimes it's really weird. We we
1:05:56don't think we have the answers, but as
1:05:57soon as I change the phrase or the
1:05:59prompt, they can start to write. And
1:06:01look at the collection of words and
1:06:03select the three that ring true, that
1:06:05build on each other versus that are
1:06:07redundant. So, bold, brave, don't use
1:06:09those two words. You you get to use one
1:06:11of them. And find your three words,
1:06:14okay? Now, you'll find your three words,
1:06:16then sit down and try to think, "What is
1:06:18a short two to five-word phrase that
1:06:21sums up these disparate characteristics
1:06:24about me?"
1:06:25The example is this. A buddy of mine is
1:06:27a photographer.
1:06:29He teaches embodiment through posing.
1:06:32He's He's a really interesting person
1:06:33because the photo is just um an artifact
1:06:37of how the person feels.
1:06:39It's pretty powerful stuff that he does.
1:06:41So, when he came up with his three
1:06:42words, he said, "I'm flamboyant." He
1:06:44definitely are. "I'm very playful." You
1:06:45most certainly are. And he's, "I'm
1:06:47vulnerable."
1:06:48So, I sat with those three words and I
1:06:49was just writing thinking, "Okay. So,
1:06:52your voice phrase is big energy, open
1:06:55heart." And I said that to him, he goes,
1:06:58"My god.
1:06:59That is everything I've ever done." I'm
1:07:00like, "I know."
1:07:01Yeah. But we don't put words to it, so
1:07:03we we don't know. It's very abstract.
1:07:04It's like a fog and all of a sudden this
1:07:05makes it really concrete.
1:07:07For me,
1:07:09um just as one more example, I'm
1:07:11critical.
1:07:13I'm direct, but I'm caring.
1:07:16>> Mhm.
1:07:16>> [clears throat]
1:07:17>> And those are important words.
1:07:18>> Critical and caring have that. Yeah.
1:07:20>> Yeah, there's like that kind of polar
1:07:21dichotomy kind of thing. So, my voice
1:07:24phrase would be hard truths gently told.
1:07:28>> Mhm.
1:07:28>> And I find like how do we use this,
1:07:30right? Hard truth. So, if I write
1:07:31something, if I'm on a podcast with you
1:07:33and people walk away, this is just a lot
1:07:35of generic nonsense, or it's just he's
1:07:37playing it too safe, then I failed my
1:07:39own identity. So, I need to say what I
1:07:41feel in my heart, and almost always
1:07:44it is contrarian, it challenges the
1:07:47norm, and it sometimes is triggering.
1:07:49I'm not doing that on purpose, it's just
1:07:51who I am. But if I do it in a way that
1:07:53you walk away feeling like what a
1:07:54a-hole, then I've not done the gently
1:07:56told part.
1:07:57>> Right.
1:07:57>> So, I have to use
1:07:59non-violent language. I have to emote
1:08:02through the tonality of my voice that
1:08:04people feel like
1:08:06yeah, that bastard does care.
1:08:08>> Hard truths gently told.
1:08:09>> Hard truths gently told. They don't
1:08:11always have to be opposing.
1:08:12>> Right.
1:08:12>> Right? Cuz other people have different
1:08:14phrases, and I'm like, that's great.
1:08:15That sounds just like you, as far as I
1:08:17can tell.
1:08:18>> I love that.
1:08:19>> So, do that. See what happens.
1:08:21>> Chris, thank you so much for coming on.
1:08:23If you want to follow more of your
1:08:24content, where's the best place to go?
1:08:26>> You can find me on all social channels.
1:08:27I'm @theChrisDo, and that's spelled D O.
1:08:30>> Sounds good. Thank you so much.
1:08:32>> Thanks for having me, man.
1:08:33Thanks for crying.
1:08:34>> Anytime.
1:08:35>> Thanks for being real. I like it.
1:08:36>> If you enjoyed this episode, check out
1:08:38episode 82 with Dan Martell. Dan built a
1:08:41$100 million company using a specific
1:08:43framework that turns your personal brand
1:08:45into real business results.
1:08:47Like the video if you enjoyed it. Hit
1:08:48subscribe on YouTube, or wherever you're
1:08:50listening, [music]
1:08:51and I'll see you next week.

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