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How to Build a Profitable Online Directory — Transcript

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0:00What I really wanted was a business with
0:02five things. And it was something that
0:05was scalable, something cheap to start,
0:08something remote where I didn't have to
0:09go to a warehouse and pack shoes and
0:11ship it to customers, something with
0:12high margin and something that could be
0:14sold as an asset. And I scoured the
0:18internet for these businesses. Very
0:20difficult to find. So, I landed on
0:21websites and I saw exactly what you
0:23mentioned, which is niche informational
0:25blogs were getting absolutely destroyed,
0:29especially starting September 2023. So,
0:31I was like, okay, I guess I'll just look
0:33on Hrefs and see what wasn't affected.
0:36And I started noticing these
0:38directories. I found this website that
0:40was getting over 100,000 monthly
0:41visitors and it was rank one, page one
0:43for my target thrifting keyword. And I
0:46was like, I could do better than this.
0:48Okay, I am medium obsessed with this
0:50side hustle and as you listen in, I
0:53think you'll understand why. So,
0:54traditional SEO for article-based
0:57content, niche sites, authority sites,
0:59blogs, whatever you want to call them,
1:01that's been a bit of a bloodbath in the
1:03last couple years, and maybe that's
1:04being gentle. Harder and harder to make
1:06money in that space. But there's one
1:08type of content that's been resistant to
1:11those changes. It's still thriving. and
1:13still earning creators that elusive,
1:15call it semi-passive income online, and
1:17that's directory content. Today, you're
1:20going to learn how to come up with
1:21profitable directory ideas, niches, and
1:24how to quickly build out that content,
1:26and some tried andrue marketing and
1:29monetization tactics to get the ball
1:30rolling there. Now, to help school me on
1:32this is a guy who walks the talk. He's
1:35built several of these directory style
1:37websites from scratch and now earns a
1:39few thousand bucks a month from those
1:41relatively handsoff from
1:43shipyoudctory.com.
1:45Frey Chu, welcome to the sidehustle
1:48show.
1:48>> What an intro. Appreciate you having me
1:50on. Thanks, Nick.
1:51>> I'm pumped for this. Like I said, I'm
1:53I'm kind of digging this idea as a as a
1:56way to make money online relatively
1:59hands-off once they're up and running,
2:00time leveraged, all that jazz. So, my
2:03understanding is one of the first ones
2:04that you built was in the thrifting
2:06space, and we don't want to reveal
2:08domains because unfortunately copycats
2:10are very much still a thing, but it's in
2:12the thrifting space. And is there a
2:13moment where you're like, "This might
2:16actually work." I think I'm on to
2:17something here.
2:18>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that was my
2:19first directory. Um, and I would say the
2:23major turning moment for that directory
2:25was 6 months in, I randomly just pulled
2:30up the Google Analytics and noticed
2:32there were a thousand people coming to
2:34that website uh that day and I just
2:37remember staring at it for 5 minutes and
2:39being like, what is going on? Like how
2:42where is this traffic coming from?
2:44>> Real. Yeah.
2:45>> At that time I was like kind of a noob
2:47at SEO too. I was relearn or just
2:50learning all the basics. Um, so I was
2:52thinking, oh, maybe I did something
2:53correct and uh I started putting ads
2:57that uh following month and the traffic
3:00ca kind of steadily came in and I made
3:03$1,200
3:05uh that month without really doing
3:07anything. It was just putting up ads.
3:08And so that's just AdSense.
3:11>> Yeah, I I actually end up using ISOIC.
3:14That was the media partner that I used
3:16and now I'm using uh Mediavine Grow
3:19which is uh kind of my my go-to ad
3:22partner now. Yeah.
3:24>> Okay. So, six months. So, you built the
3:26thing and then kind of sat on it like I
3:28guess let it age potentially in the
3:30search results and establish some
3:33>> domain. I don't you do anything
3:35proactively to market it during those
3:37six months or just like log in one day,
3:39hey, it actually is getting traffic. I
3:41did I did post on Reddit and I talk
3:43about that a lot. Every every time I
3:45finish an entire directory build, I
3:46always find a niche subreddit and I'll
3:49make a post. It'll basically sound like,
3:52hey, I made a website to make XYZ easier
3:55or to find X, Y, and Z locations easier.
3:58And um yeah, that's kind of the only
4:01thing that I did. It was responsible for
4:03maybe like a few hundred people coming
4:05to the website because that Reddit post
4:08performed really well. And um people
4:11still commented to it uh on this day uh
4:13you know couple years later. Uh but but
4:16yeah really nothing much nothing too
4:18fancy um was done.
4:23>> All right let's dig into well maybe we
4:26can pull it back and say why what
4:28attracted you to this business model. I
4:30think every entrepreneur kind of goes
4:34through this moment where they either
4:36struggle to start something or start
4:38something and realize that's not the
4:39thing that they want. Uh so in my case,
4:41I was running a footware business. I was
4:43closing it down super depressed, very
4:45low point of my entrepreneurial life. Uh
4:48and I realized what I really wanted was
4:51a business with five things. And it was
4:54something that was scalable, something
4:56cheap to start, something remote where I
4:58didn't have to like go to a warehouse
5:00and pack shoes and ship it to customers.
5:02Uh something with high margin and
5:03something that could be sold as an
5:05asset. And I scoured the internet for
5:08these businesses. Very difficult to
5:10find. I found
5:11>> is a little bit of a unicorn like
5:13something that checks all those boxes.
5:14>> Totally. Um so I found I think I landed
5:18on SAS or websites and I'm not a coder.
5:21So um you know this was kind of pre like
5:23this is early AI AI
5:25>> pre AI vibe coding stuff.
5:27>> Exactly. Yeah. The vibe coding was not a
5:29thing yet. Um so I landed on websites
5:31and I saw exactly what you mentioned
5:33which is nicheformational blogs were
5:35getting absolutely destroyed especially
5:39starting September 2023
5:41>> with the helpful content update. So I
5:42was like okay well I guess I'll just
5:44look on hrefs and see what wasn't
5:47affected. And I started noticing these
5:49directories. I didn't really like go
5:51into it thinking I'm going to go build a
5:53portfolio of directories. I was just
5:55like, "Okay, well this I found this
5:57website that was getting over 100,000
5:59monthly visitors and it was rank one,
6:01page one for my uh target thrifting
6:03keyword and I was like I could do better
6:06than this. This is like pretty ugly and
6:09I feel like not that helpful. There
6:10could be better information. It's also
6:12out of date. Uh they're missing a lot of
6:14locations and I was like, "Okay, I'm
6:16going to go and build it." And um yeah,
6:20once I started ramping up and that kind
6:22of aha moment happened, um I was like,
6:26"Okay, yeah, this meets all those five
6:28criteria and I can just keep building
6:30these out." That's what launched the
6:31directory uh side hustle for me. Did
6:35that keyword research start from a
6:37standpoint of personal interest? Like
6:39were you a thrift store flipper, thrift
6:42store shopper type of person?
6:44>> I actually was. Yeah. like my most
6:47recent like at the time when I realized
6:49it was getting a thousand visitors a
6:50month, I had just gotten a job because
6:52before that I spent the year flipping
6:54items, going to flea markets and garage
6:56sales and I paid my rent that way for
6:59like a year and a half. But
7:00>> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This that's a super we
7:02got lots of episodes on that on side
7:04show.
7:05>> Um the problem is that it failed two of
7:08the most important factors in my
7:10opinion. It's like scalability and um
7:13being remote cuz I like I was stuck in
7:15my garage in my apartment just like all
7:18day shipping listing items and then like
7:21shipping anywhere outside of the US was
7:22just way too pricey. Like it just didn't
7:25make sense.
7:25>> Yeah.
7:26>> Physical inventory business capital
7:28intensive. You know, maybe you sit on
7:29inventory for months at a time and if
7:32you ever stop sourcing then you're kind
7:34of out of luck.
7:35>> 100%. By the way, most fun side hustle I
7:38ever had though. 100%. Like there's
7:40>> the treasure hunt component of it.
7:42>> Oh man, it's the best. But I had to
7:44sacrifice that to look more longterm and
7:46be like, "Okay,
7:48what else can I do that uh, you know,
7:51wouldn't require me to be in a garage
7:53all day?"
7:53>> No, no, you're good. So, if I'm So, if
7:56I'm a student of yours, you're coaching
7:58me through this initial research
7:59process, like, okay, I could start with
8:01things that I'm interested in. Okay,
8:03maybe this is a personal pain point. I'm
8:04having a hard time finding thrift shops
8:06near me. I'm having a hard time finding
8:08new hiking trails, new uh pickle ball
8:11courts, new um you know, whatever it is.
8:13Um is that kind of where you would
8:16recommend people uh begin their begin
8:18their research? When I choose a a good
8:20niche for a directory, I typically try
8:23my best to have that be 70% databased.
8:26So, the keyword research is good.
8:28There's high search volume, low
8:30competition. Um there's uh you know a
8:34clear bounty like a website directory
8:36that's already successful that probably
8:38isn't the most optimized or kind of old
8:40and clunky. Uh and then 30% of it will
8:43be more passion based interest based
8:44kind of like what you mentioned. Uh I've
8:46tried directories where it's 100% kind
8:49of interest based uh hobby or passion
8:51based and
8:53for me personally it didn't work out.
8:55Um, so I think the way I landed on the
8:58thrifting idea was I just kind of
9:02audited my life and where I like to go
9:05and where uh people like to go. Um, and
9:09I combined that with a framework where
9:11I'm like, okay, what saves people time
9:14earns people money or saves people
9:16money? And those are kind of like the
9:17three
9:19umbrella frameworks that I tried to
9:20combine when I was socially observing
9:23where people were going in the world.
9:25And that's when I landed on this very
9:26specific thrift store that I built my
9:28entire directory around. And people love
9:30it because it's so cheap. It's like a
9:33warehouse style thrifting experience
9:36where everything's by the pound. So you
9:38don't get markups uh from regular thrift
9:41stores. Anyways,
9:42>> interesting. Okay. I've never heard of
9:44that. Yeah.
9:45>> Okay. So, I like this. So, um 70% uh
9:48we're gonna we're gonna let the data
9:50kind of steer where we want to go. And
9:51bonus points, 30% of this decision is
9:54going to be based on, well, I if I'm
9:56going to work on this, I at least got to
9:57care something about it. Otherwise, you
9:59know what's going to separate me from
10:01everybody else trying to do the same
10:02thing. You mentioned having a clear
10:04bounty. This is somebody else who has
10:07paved the way for you. This is a site
10:09that is maybe a little outdated, maybe a
10:12little clunky looking, maybe the data
10:14isn't um as as clean as cleanly
10:17presented as it could be, but they're
10:19doing okay. you can tell that they're
10:21ranking, they're getting traffic and
10:22say, "I can do better than that." And
10:24that's how we're gonna try and stair
10:26step uh above that site. They've they've
10:28already proven out the concept and now
10:30instead of reinventing the wheel, we're
10:31going to go after uh what they did, just
10:33do it better.
10:34>> Mhm. 100%. I think it tells you so much
10:38uh especially with, you know, a lot of
10:40concern around um SERs changing, right?
10:43There's so many more forums and social
10:45media websites and it just really
10:48depends if you whatever you type into
10:49Google you can get a completely
10:51different looking search engine results
10:53page. Um, so like if you see a bounty,
10:57someone that's successful and
11:00yeah, I mean it's basically proof that
11:02you can take the structure of their
11:04website and just improve it. Like
11:05clearly Google has chosen that and has
11:08left that there on page one, rank one
11:10for some time uh because it finds it
11:13trustworthy. It matches user intent and
11:15search intent to some extent. And um
11:17yeah, it's like one of the most
11:19important factors that I actually look
11:20for when I'm building a new directory is
11:22a successful one that's come before me.
11:25And what's interesting is you seem to
11:27prefer location-based uh queries or
11:31location based directories if um and not
11:33to put words in your mouth, but we had
11:34we did an episode with John Rush um late
11:37last year and it was almost it was like
11:41online service providers. it was best
11:43like all GPTs or I think was the one
11:45that he mentioned was like you know a
11:48directory of software tools it was like
11:50kind of the opposite approach.
11:52>> Yeah 100%. Um I just personally think
11:54that local queries local SEO is way more
11:57protected. Um kind of going you know
12:01just talking about certain keywords
12:03andformational blogs that were
12:05destroyed. Um local SEO is a totally
12:08different beast. And if you go on chat
12:10GBT or any LLM and you look up a local
12:12query or local keyword like barbers near
12:14me, it's arguably worse than Google Maps
12:17right now. So, and the SERs looks the
12:19same, which is great. Um, so that's
12:22really all an SEO can ask for. Anyone
12:24building one of these directories
12:25relying on SEO as distribution is I
12:28don't want any surprises. I think this
12:30challenge is still um not entirely
12:33solved even if LLMs can catch up because
12:36there are certain niches like daycare or
12:41anything legal or finance where the
12:43consequence of choosing the wrong vendor
12:46or local business service is too high.
12:48Like with the daycare, you're handing
12:50your child to some random people. I'm
12:52not just going to one prompt Chad GBT
12:55and ask, "Hey, where are the nearest
12:56daycarees?" And be like, "Okay, cool.
12:58That's awesome." Uh there's also price
12:59sensitivity. Um there's so many reasons
13:02why someone would go beyond just a
13:04simple oneshot chie prompt uh and look
13:08elsewhere on the internet for more
13:10information around things that they need
13:12things that where trust is inherent. Um,
13:16so yeah, that's
13:17>> a fun example from uh from the show a
13:19few years ago was Rob Pingalo built a
13:21database of I think it was shaded
13:24seats.com and it was like where in major
13:27league stadiums at a certain time of
13:29day, you know, whenever this uh game
13:31starts, like where are you going to be
13:32sitting in the shade if it's 100 degrees
13:34in Arlington? I don't want to be baking
13:36out there in the sun. Where are the
13:36shaded seats? And he built a whole site
13:38around that.
13:39>> Super smart. That's fascinating. Um,
13:43let's let's look into some of the
13:44research here. We talked about high
13:46volume, low competition. I want to get
13:48some maybe high and low metrics for what
13:51that looks like or maybe a seed query.
13:52What do you where do you start? So,
13:56one of the most popular ways that I
13:57think you can go and find these niche
14:00directories is if you do use HFS, it is
14:02a premium tool. It's expensive, but if
14:05you do, uh, it's pretty worth it if you
14:07plan to use it and build directories.
14:10Um, I just type in near me. And this is
14:12really just what everyone types into
14:16Google if they're looking for something
14:17near them. Um, there's several ways that
14:20you can kind of filter this information.
14:23The first place I pay attention to is
14:24just keyword difficulty and search
14:26volume. Makes makes sense to find a
14:29keyword that has high search volume and
14:31low keyword difficulty. Um, kind of
14:34indicates that it would be easier to
14:35rank for. But
14:37>> yeah, look at that. Pizza near me. two
14:39million searches and almost no
14:41competition.
14:42If if you are a pizza lover, I feel like
14:44there's an opportunity to build uh
14:46something about that.
14:47>> Yeah. Yeah. And Hrefs is just a third
14:49party data tool. I will say that like as
14:52you train your eyes and you like at this
14:54point, I've vetted probably over 5,000
14:58different directory niches, at least
15:00seen n uh keywords through the lens of
15:02directories, and there are trap niches.
15:04Pizza near me, I would argue, is harder
15:07to rank for
15:09>> than it might look than it might
15:10originally appear.
15:11>> Exactly. Um, what I like to do is I
15:14would actually personally, if I were
15:16restarting this all over again, I
15:19personally like to find keywords right
15:21around that, you know, maybe 10,000 to
15:2540,000
15:26uh keyword monthly search volume. Um,
15:30this isn't a hard rule. It's, you know,
15:33ultimately it's really depending on you
15:36and your SEO expertise, but I feel that
15:39some of these keywords offer the best
15:43kind of bang for your buck, if you will.
15:45There's not too many directories. Uh,
15:48it's still showing a lot of interest.
15:50Funny enough, I do have a plasma
15:51donation directory. Uh, that was the
15:54second or third directory that I built.
15:57>> Yeah, look at that. Keyword difficulty
15:5877 out of 100, though. That's uh a
16:00little bit challenging. Mhm. Yeah. And I
16:03guess the reason I built it is because
16:05if you look up, you know, plasma like
16:09San Antonio for example,
16:12um then you will notice that the actual
16:15local keyword plasma donation San
16:16Antonio is much less competitive. So I
16:19went into this project not thinking I
16:21was going to rank for plasma donation
16:23near me. That would be insane.
16:24>> Got it. Got it. But you could do it for
16:26hundreds of different cities.
16:27>> Exactly. So, a lot of people tunnel
16:29vision into the main keyword, which is
16:30why I don't think the near me method is
16:32necessarily the best. It kind of gives
16:35you a foot in, but you kind of want to
16:38peel back the curtain and look a little
16:41bit deeper because maybe there's lower
16:44competition queries that are basically
16:47the same search intent that you could
16:48target. And that's exactly what I did. I
16:50just kind of targeted these type of kind
16:52of broader city keywords. And that was
16:56>> got it. Got it. Building out those
16:57individual pages.
17:00>> Um, and yeah, so like this is one
17:02method. Uh, sometimes you'll even run
17:04into niches. Uh, I think daycarees is
17:07actually a great example where rather
17:08than kind of a more broad location-based
17:11keyword, you might have phrase daycare.
17:13And for whatever reason, it's based in
17:15Los Angeles. Uh, it gets a thousand
17:17monthly searches. So people are clearly
17:19trying to look for information around
17:21phrase daycare. Um, and you can kind of
17:24use the existing search volume that
17:26these individual businesses are getting
17:29and it, you know, if you look at any
17:30other big city, you'll see the same
17:32trend uh, and get traffic that way cuz
17:35it's super easy to rank for these
17:36keywords sometimes with a fresh domain,
17:39no back links, just creating a useful
17:42directory. Uh, you'll be surprised at
17:45how far you can rank for um, kind of
17:48individual local business queries, uh,
17:51if you will.
17:52Yeah, this is kind of interesting
17:53because in in my head this is like this
17:55is Google Maps's job, but they're not
17:59they're not doing a great job of it and
18:01maybe there's a better way to organize
18:03and present that data. I found a splash
18:06pad near me 32,000 and a keyword
18:09difficulty of zero. Um laser tag,
18:13basketball courts, uh teeth whitening,
18:16um tattoo removal was a was a fun one.
18:20uh tanning beds, bike trails, like
18:22there's there's tons of these and
18:24actually if you're listening in because
18:26HFS is uh at least 30 bucks a month and
18:29their premium ones are even higher than
18:31that. Um I you can I'll email you this
18:35file. Um you can find we'll link it up
18:37in in the show notes
18:39sidehustleation.com/frey
18:40or just follow the the link in the
18:42description. We'll get you over there. I
18:44listed out a hundred that I thought were
18:46interesting to me. batting cages near
18:49me, stuff like this, kind of these local
18:51based queries where if you had an inn or
18:54an interest in that area, you could
18:55build out something pretty cool.
18:57>> Totally.
18:59I will say it's really important because
19:01you mentioned something interesting,
19:03which is that um you know, this is
19:05essentially Google Maps and going back
19:08to the daycare example, uh people want
19:10to know more than just name, address,
19:12phone number. Uh that's kind of the
19:14information you need to know, but what
19:16about the information you want to know?
19:17maybe if the daycare is licensed, if
19:19there's activities in itinerary for your
19:21kids. Um, you know, what's the how do
19:24people treat uh, you know, their clients
19:28at the at the place that you're, you
19:30know, taking your your kids to? Um,
19:32there's so many questions and like I
19:34would argue, yeah, some more important
19:36things that I want to know, data that I
19:39want to know rather than I need to know
19:40that I should include in my directory.
19:43And um that's really how you
19:45differentiate yourself from Google Maps.
19:50Anything else on that research phase? So
19:52this is going to be a starting point.
19:53This is going to be, you know, I'm going
19:55to go here. This is going to be kind of
19:56broad. And then maybe there's even
19:58subcategories
20:00within
20:02obviously within each of these, you
20:03know, the batting cage, does it have
20:05baseball? Does it have softball? Is it
20:07indoors? Is it outdoors? You know, does
20:09it have a snack shack? like all these
20:11different things people might ask
20:12questions about and and I'm hopefully
20:14we'll get into how to actually collect
20:16that data on a nationwide level but
20:18anything else we should think about kind
20:19of in this initial research phase
20:23I mean there are so many uh there are so
20:27many small nuances
20:29come when it comes to choosing a niche
20:32um yeah I mean I would say the most
20:35important is finding a bounty a
20:37successful directory making sure that
20:40directory as a format uh as a structured
20:43page works on Google. Um
20:47definitely using keyword research. I
20:49tend to also look at a lot of my
20:52competitors backlinks. So I won't just
20:53stop at finding the bounty. I'll look
20:55into them. Okay, what kind of backlinks
20:57are they getting? Why am I doing that?
20:59Well, this is kind of looking further in
21:01the future. But I want a plan to go and
21:04get back links because SEO as I'm sure a
21:07lot of your audience knows is not just
21:10content. It's trust signals. It's niche
21:12relevant backlinks that are
21:14>> Yeah.
21:14>> you know giving you a shout out
21:16basically. Um,
21:17>> is there anywhere there's a red flag
21:18where you're like, even though it says
21:19it's a keyword difficulty of 10 or
21:22under, but looking at that bounty
21:25example website, you know, who you're
21:27gunning for, it's like there's no way
21:29I'm going to be able to touch like
21:30they've got thousands of backlink. Like,
21:32is there something where you're like
21:33hard stop on to the next one?
21:35>> Yes. I would say looking at the root
21:37domain is always a good idea. If they're
21:39like a DR90, they're extremely
21:42trustworthy. Um, a lot of these exist in
21:45the food niche. You know, you mentioned
21:46pizza near me. There's like a food truck
21:48directory that's doing seven figures
21:50plus. There's a lot of food directory
21:52competition. So, that's uh generally a
21:54red flag for me. But, yeah, you can also
21:57check the back links if they're getting
21:58back links from these massive websites
22:01that wouldn't even respond to you if you
22:03emailed them.
22:04>> Yeah,
22:04>> probably probably not the move there.
22:06Um,
22:07>> let the data be your guide, but then put
22:09on kind of your common sense hat and
22:12detective and be like, what how am I
22:14really realistically going to stand out
22:15here?
22:16>> Exactly.
22:18>> So 10 to 40,000 was kind of the sweet
22:20spot in terms of monthly search volume.
22:22Anything Well, I mean, even you
22:23mentioned like I'd go as high as a
22:25keyword difficulty in the 70s if you
22:27know for those local searches it doesn't
22:29seem to be that competitive. So don't
22:31let don't let that necessarily be a hard
22:34stop. Mhm. I mean, that's just the way
22:37that I do it. And um I recently spoke to
22:40Tim Stoddard who his first directory was
22:42doing 250K in net profits. Um and he
22:47chose a niche where there wasn't
22:48necessarily a lot of search volume and
22:50his only framework for finding niches is
22:53do rich people do it? Check. Then I'm
22:56going to go and build it. It's really
22:58>> do rich people do it.
22:59>> That was his whole framework for finding
23:01and vetting niche ideas. and he's gone
23:04off and created really successful
23:06directories. He's still building
23:07directories. Mine's more like probably
23:09data driven and I do ask myself a lot of
23:12questions. I poke around in hrefs. Um,
23:15but there's a thousand paths to victory
23:17here and it's uh yeah, it's
23:22yeah, it kind of depends. Yeah, the one
23:25I always wanted to build. I even had I
23:27don't know if I registered this domain,
23:28but I wanted it to be called Happy Hour,
23:30and it was like just the directory of
23:32the best happy hours around, but I don't
23:33know, somebody maybe built that because
23:35I was a long time ago since I had that
23:37idea.
23:38>> Yeah, totally.
23:40>> Okay, so what's next? Let's talk about I
23:42don't know, pick pick an example. We
23:44just threw out, you know, half a dozen
23:45different ideas. What you know, what do
23:48you where do you get the data from this
23:50like to do it at scale? Like I'll I'll
23:52give you the example. So, I I built a
23:54virtual assistant directory and review
23:56site for like outsourcing companies
23:58years and years ago, and it was
24:01one-on-one. I'm going to write the
24:03profile of this company. There was no
24:05there was no data scraping involved. It
24:07was just like create the 500word post
24:09about this company and plug it into this
24:11category and, you know, boom, boom,
24:12boom, lather, rinse, repeat. Uh, you
24:14know, starting out with a couple dozen
24:16companies and then probably getting over
24:18to 150 or something by the time we sold
24:20it.
24:21>> Mhm. Yeah. I would say the there's a few
24:24ways to do it. Um kind of going taking a
24:27quick step back before data scraping is
24:30you want to decide how this directory is
24:33going to monetize. Like for me it was
24:34all about kind of more passive projects.
24:37Spend 100 hours up front once it's up
24:39and monetized. I basically don't work on
24:41it. Um that was my style. If you want to
24:44go more lead generation that's not going
24:46to be as passive but has a much higher
24:48ceiling for earning potential. Um, and
24:51the reason I say that and why that has
24:52to do with data scraping is because if
24:54you are doing a lead generation, you
24:56don't need to build something that
24:58attracts 100,000 monthly visitors uh to
25:01to make money. Uh, you can focus on a
25:04state in which case you could just
25:05scrape for that state and then go deep
25:07into that. Um, but definitely want to
25:10figure that out first afterwards after
25:13you vetted your niche. I personally use
25:15a tool called outscraper. Um, not
25:17affiliated, just been a big fan for a
25:19while. So, let's can we pause on lead
25:20generation for a second? This would be
25:22if you're um kind of building a
25:24directory of service providers, for
25:26example, like teeth whitening near me,
25:28and you've partnered with a bunch of
25:29dental offices that offer that and say,
25:31"Okay, we'll send you if we send you a
25:33new customer, you know, we expect you to
25:35give us a $200 finder fee or something,
25:37and you have to like go out and cut
25:38those individual deals."
25:39>> 100%. Um there's Yeah, that's that's
25:42that's essentially it. Um, I mentioned
25:44that I'm building a luxury porta-potty
25:46directory right now. So, that's going to
25:48be a lead generation play. Um,
25:51>> like for rental services.
25:53>> Exactly. Yeah. So, luxury portaotties
25:56can rent for $2,000 a day. Think
25:58weddings, outdoor festivals, that kind
25:59of stuff. Um,
26:00>> there's another side hustle.
26:02>> Yeah. So, uh, feel free to build it. I'm
26:05sure there's plenty of room for multiple
26:06winners. Um, but, uh, the reason I I I
26:11land like Yeah. For generally speaking,
26:13for lead generation, that's the whole
26:15concept. You are creating a directory
26:18that helps people find uh and make a
26:22decision around renting a luxury
26:24restroom trailer. You might be asking,
26:25well, Freay, isn't it just as easy as
26:27just looking up restroom trailers near
26:29me and then just, you know, calling? Uh,
26:32yeah, but it's like there's no price
26:35transparency. And this is exists in so
26:37many niches where you can call 10 luxury
26:40porta potty restroom trailer companies.
26:43One, it'll be a little timeconuming, but
26:44two, you'll probably get quotes that
26:46vary in the several hundreds of dollars.
26:49Same thing exists with with any like,
26:51you know, landscaping or home renovation
26:54project. If you're redoing your kitchen,
26:56you're going to get ton of different
26:57quotes. So, your directory can be the
27:00place
27:01>> that provides that information. and it's
27:04easier to just go on a directory where
27:06all the information is one place um and
27:09you can kind of quickly compare one or
27:11the other and that's the kind of like a
27:13simple problem that you can solve that
27:16adds a tremendous amount of value um so
27:18yeah but yeah in general that's the lead
27:20genen model you are the website that
27:24SEOs your website you get the leads you
27:26sell the leads to business owners and
27:28that's how it works
27:29>> okay fair enough okay so that so
27:31thinking about well how am I eventually
27:33going to monitor ize this and and maybe
27:35the niche kind of dictates which
27:36direction that you go. If you're doing a
27:39directory for dog parks or hiking
27:42trails, like they're probably not going
27:43to pay you to send people off to the
27:45hiking trail, but there's um that's
27:48where display ads come in or maybe, you
27:51know, hiking equipment affiliate. I
27:54don't know. There's some I'm sure
27:55there's other creative ways you could do
27:56it, but like some more more passive or
27:58more kind of just uh traffic based uh
28:01models.
28:02>> Yep. I sell digital products on my
28:04thrifting directory as well and that
28:06makes around $500 a month passively. So,
28:09there's a bunch of ways you can
28:10monetize.
28:13>> This is like a guide to like make money
28:15thrifting or something like what's the
28:16digital product?
28:17>> Um, I did something really sweaty,
28:19really unscalable. I called all the
28:21thrift store owners and basically posed
28:24as some authority figure within the
28:26company and said, "Hey, you need to tell
28:29me exactly when new product comes into
28:32the thrift store. I need to know the
28:34days, the times, how many rotations you
28:36have every single day." And I packaged
28:40that into a guide. And I did that 130
28:42times. And I just put it in an Excel
28:43sheet, threw it in Canva, made 130
28:46variations that are store specific
28:48schedules.
28:50>> Oh, yeah. If you're serious about it,
28:52you got to be there. You know, if it
28:54comes in Tuesday at noon, you got to be
28:56there.
28:56>> Totally. Yeah. There's a ton of
28:58resellers um who want that information.
29:00And just one flip is going to pay off.
29:04It's a $19 digital product. It's going
29:06to pay off that that expense. So, um,
29:08hobbyists, flippers, resellers, they all
29:10want to know when the best stuff comes
29:12and how early they should plan their
29:14their trip. And that did.
29:17>> Interesting. Okay, let's go back. Let's
29:19go back to the data collection you
29:21mentioned. I think out scraper was the
29:23was the tool.
29:24>> Out scraper. Um, yeah. So, it's a
29:28scraping tool that allows you to scrape
29:31Google Maps and among other websites if
29:34you'd like. Uh, that's the most non
29:37coder friendly in my opinion. It's super
29:40easy to set up. You can specify the
29:42locations you want to scrape. Uh Google
29:44categories. That's something that I kind
29:46of always do before I use out scraper.
29:50Just go on Google Maps, type in your
29:52keyword, uh look for the Google
29:54categories that you want to scrape for,
29:57and then
29:58move forward with the scraping tool. And
30:00that will basically give you all the
30:02information that you want. You can get
30:03the name, address, phone number, the
30:05website, the working hours, anything
30:08that you want um is is there as far as
30:12the information that you need to know.
30:14As far as the extra the data you want to
30:16know, that's where you have to kind of
30:19uh do extra steps there.
30:22Yeah. For for that kind of stuff where
30:25it's like, well, does it have a vending
30:27machine? Does it have shade? Does it
30:29have, you know, are dogs allowed? like
30:32all that like do you have to start
30:33combing through the reviews or like how
30:35do you pull all that stuff especially if
30:36you're trying to do it you know for
30:37hundreds and hundreds of locations.
30:39>> Yep. So uh exactly Google reviews is
30:42definitely like the main place you look.
30:44If people are talking about it there
30:45will be a review tag. If you've used
30:47Google Maps, we've all seen it. It's
30:49basically what people are talking about
30:50the most. I'll combine that with some
30:52Reddit social listening. Just looking up
30:55your keyword on Reddit. See what people
30:58are talking about. If those questions
31:00just keep reoccurring, then okay, then
31:03dive in. Look at the comments. What are
31:05people talking about? What's being
31:07upvoted? That's where you can get a lot
31:09of ideas for data enrichment as well.
31:12>> Okay. So, this is going the output of
31:13this is going to be like a ginormous
31:16Excel file or something, I imagine, like
31:18potentially thousands of rows.
31:20>> Mhm. Yep. Um Yeah. So, you get a big uh
31:23CSV file or Excel file. Uh I'll clean
31:25the data. Um, sometimes I like to scrape
31:29uh certain parameters like the business
31:31status. It'll spit out whether or not
31:33the business is temporarily closed or
31:35permanently closed. I would remove those
31:38because I don't want those to be on my
31:39directory. So, they're like small like
31:41kind of common sense logical approaches
31:43to cleaning your data. Uh, and then once
31:45you've kind of ended up with a list that
31:48you're happy with, um, you can go and
31:50enrich the data. And, uh, that's that's
31:54the whole process. But there are ways to
31:55automate it. I actually co-ounded a tool
31:57that helps automate this because it was
31:59such a pain in the butt having to go
32:00through, as you mentioned, potentially
32:03thousands of listings
32:05>> manually. Uh, so we kind of automated
32:07that whole process.
32:10This was one of the um very tedious
32:13chores where we had to build some
32:14automation. So, one of my first side
32:16hustle projects was this shoe shopping
32:18site. And so it pull in the cataloges
32:20through data fees or through like
32:22Amazon's API and we'd get sometime, you
32:26know, probably over a million products
32:27and I don't want your handbags, I don't
32:29want your earrings and stuff. I just
32:30want shoes. And so like build the rules
32:32to filter out everything but shoes. And
32:34then sometimes they would have very
32:36similar names and like okay that product
32:38is actually the same as this product
32:39even though it's called something
32:40slightly different. And this data
32:43cleanup was something that could be
32:46automated on a recurring basis, but was
32:49pretty timeconuming up front to try and
32:51build out all those rules.
32:52>> Super tedious. I mean, yeah, I did it
32:54manually the first time. Uh, not even
32:57exaggerating, hundreds of hours just
32:59doing like quite possibly the most
33:01boring task uh, ever. But yeah, um,
33:05>> but this is kind of where your value ad
33:07is. If you're like, if all this data
33:09already exists on Google Maps and that's
33:11where we got it from, it's that
33:13question, well, what am what am I going
33:14to be doing that's different andor
33:16better to make somebody come here
33:18instead?
33:19>> I think that that is the question I
33:22asked myself a lot and I realized
33:26I have like two takes on this one which
33:28is I think I probably learned this from
33:30Pat Flynn way back in the day, but
33:32people will pay for consolidation.
33:34um whether it's through their time as a
33:36website visitor or like actually pay in
33:38the in the case of my digital product.
33:41Um there's all the information online
33:43but it's time consuming. Everyone has
33:45their lives that are being you know that
33:48are busy and we're all doing stuff. So
33:50if you can be the person that just
33:51consolidates it then um there's a
33:54massive value ad there. Uh the second
33:56take is specialized data and this is
33:58kind of my hedge against um you know
34:02impending AI threats. in my opinion, but
34:04essentially there's data that is
34:07available but in really low quality uh
34:12ways. Um and then there's like I guess a
34:15really common example is any kind of
34:18lack of uh price transparency with the
34:20daycarees, right? You would have to call
34:22every daycare just to get the pricing.
34:24Again, very timeconuming. What if you
34:26can consolidate that information? That
34:28information is probably not even out
34:30there. Like I doubt anyone has called
34:335,000 of the daycarees in America just
34:35to get that information. But if you did,
34:37that would be some insane value ad. You
34:39would have specialized data in the sense
34:41that you're the only person on the
34:43internet with that level of helpful
34:46data. Um so that's kind of like another
34:49way you can create and generate
34:52new data that can't be easily.
34:55>> Yeah. And of course, if there's a
34:57hundred of these listings in your
34:59directory, that's feasible. If there's
35:025,000, maybe a little less so without
35:04hiring your own outsource call center
35:06team to go and uh and collect it. What
35:08would you want to plug your your um
35:11cleanup tool?
35:12>> Um it's called enrich.directory.
35:14That's the website. It's essentially
35:17somewhat agentic. You can let's just say
35:20like the daycare example. You can plug
35:23in like a license or um schedule. You
35:27can put in a keyword that that you want
35:29to look for in the reviews rather than
35:31manually sifting through it and it will
35:33identify the most recent ones. And you
35:35can prompt it as well. You can say,
35:36"Hey, does this daycare have a schedule
35:38or some itinerary or some kids program
35:41um and then it will basically just give
35:43you all of those reviews uh that
35:46mentioned it and have a boolean output
35:48that says, "Yep, they do have a program.
35:50Here's the proof. Some reviewer has
35:52mentioned it already and they mentioned
35:54it recently. Uh so you can kind of see
35:56all that data there. Um yeah, save me.
35:59>> Yeah, this is something we totally did
36:01like we built this for our own local
36:03area when our young when we moved and
36:05our youngest was looking for preschool.
36:06It's like, well, what are their hours?
36:08What if you do 3 days a week? How much
36:10do they charge? Because so many of them
36:12are like 9 to noon or 9:30 to 12. It's
36:15like I was hoping for a little more
36:16coverage than that. It's tedious to go
36:18find that data. Definitely a value ad if
36:20somebody puts that together. And that's
36:22just, you know, one example of, you
36:23know, hundreds.
36:24>> Mhm. Exactly. Yeah.
36:29>> Okay. So now, so it's in Excel or it's
36:32in some CSV file. Like how do we make
36:35that look pretty on a website? Like how
36:36do we start how do you start to present
36:38that that data?
36:40>> Yeah. So after you've
36:42scraped, cleaned, and enrich your data.
36:44Uh that is the time when I format it on
36:47a WordPress website. That's kind of
36:48historically been my pick. There are
36:51again multiple ways to do it. At the end
36:53of the day, it's just building a website
36:56that points people to the right place
36:57with with the right information. Right?
36:59So, you can use everything from your
37:01simple themes or you can use like
37:03directory specific plugins. Um, Geo
37:06Directory is one I've also used. I've
37:08also built out static pages where I just
37:10literally click create page and I just
37:12start dragging widgets over and just
37:15hand make the whole directory. Um,
37:18>> yeah, if yeah, it's
37:21if there are a small number of listings
37:23feasible. Otherwise, like there's got
37:25there's probably a WordPress like
37:26importer tool where you can do something
37:30like that.
37:30>> Mhm. Yeah, there's WPL import. That's
37:32kind of the famous one. Uh, works really
37:34well. Um, Geo Directory has kind of a
37:37built-in importer, so you can
37:39programmatically deploy like 4,000 pages
37:41in the same day if you want. Um, so it's
37:46out there. Uh, I've more recently been
37:48playing with AI coding tools like Vzero
37:50and Cursor and Claude Code and um,
37:54that's fascinating as well, but I always
37:56recommend people just use what you
37:58already know. Uh, that's usually where I
38:02think you should start and it'll
38:03probably be the faster way anyways
38:05rather than learning some new tech stack
38:08that you're not familiar with.
38:10>> Yeah. So the structure is each listing
38:14is its own page or is it like you kind
38:17of start to do that editorial content of
38:20like the best plasma donation centers in
38:22Houston type of like you know listical
38:24content. It depends. Um I look at two
38:27places you can look at the hrefs data if
38:29all the actually the first place I look
38:31is just look up the first top three
38:34ranking websites in your SERs. Um or
38:38look at the most successful directory.
38:40How's it structured? Do they have
38:42individual listing pages? If so, just
38:44follow suit. Pretty easy. If it's more
38:46listical based, you should do what what
38:48I do, what I did with my first
38:49directory, um the thrifting one, which
38:51is a pillar page directory. It's
38:54literally 50 pages for all the different
38:56states in America. And when you land on
38:58that page, it's a massively long page.
39:02It's ridiculous. Um but that seemed to
39:05work out the best. And um I kind of
39:10determined that by just looking at what
39:11was already working. I didn't need
39:13individual listing pages. People didn't
39:15care about that. The main thing people
39:16were typing in was the name of the
39:18thrift store San Antonio or Austin or
39:21Los Angeles. Uh not the specific
39:24uh name of the store. Um if it's like
39:26the daycare example, going back to that,
39:29you're probably likely to have people
39:32want to research the name of the exact
39:35daycare spot. in which case it would
39:36make sense to create its own listing
39:38page and you would have a more
39:39traditional directory um rather than a
39:42pillar page directory. So it depends on
39:44what's working out there. You can also
39:45look at the keyword uh research to see
39:48what the most popular queries are um and
39:51that should really inform what your
39:54directory like will look like.
39:56>> Yeah, thinking about that site
39:58structure. I mean similar like side
39:59hustle nation could be an example like
40:00best side hustles for real estate agents
40:04for doctors for dentist we have that
40:06type of content that's kind of the
40:08listical that's like the pillar page
40:09type of stuff at at a category level and
40:12then each of those items on that list
40:16probably has its own deep dive where
40:18it's an interview about how to build
40:21directories or how to invest in real
40:23estate or how to start a freelance
40:25business like anything like that and so
40:27that kind of structure is going to be
40:30dictated by the niche that you that you
40:32select.
40:33>> 100%. That is correct.
40:36>> Okay. So, let's say it's feels a little
40:39bit like fast forwarding through the
40:40buildout phase here, but once it's
40:43built, and maybe this is a longer
40:45process depending on the niche you
40:46select. You mentioned posting to Reddit.
40:49Hey guys, I made this uh I made a tool.
40:52I made a site to help make finding
40:54fill-in- thelank easier. Check it out.
40:57That's that's one potential marketing
40:59angle or tactic. What what else to like
41:03just, you know, it's not, you know,
41:04build it and they'll come. It's build it
41:06and like try and spread the word at
41:08least a little bit to uh get Google to
41:10notice you.
41:11>> That my next step is building back links
41:13and kind of starting to build those
41:15trust signals. But that Reddit step is
41:18so important because people on Reddit
41:20are not afraid to tell you to your face
41:22what if your project sucks. And um you
41:26spend all this time researching,
41:28scraping the data. You probably spend a
41:29little bit of money, too. If you're
41:30using premium themes on WordPress, you
41:33kind of want to take a moment and take
41:35in any real-time feedback. If it sucks,
41:38then why does it suck? Um if people
41:40don't find it valuable and they're like
41:42telling you it's just another version of
41:43Google Maps but uglier, then you should
41:45probably listen to them. Um, every
41:48single Reddit post I've made, luckily,
41:51uh, I've made four cuz I have four
41:53directories that I've really put in like
41:55a full A through Z effort on. Luckily,
41:57they've been really wellreceived,
41:59multiple hundreds of up votes, um,
42:02comments. Um, and the second reason you
42:05want to do that is because I've gotten
42:07my best monetization ideas from these
42:10Reddit forums. People are like, "Hey, I
42:11I I think it'd be really cool if you
42:13added this data." And that's how I got
42:15the idea for that first directory for
42:17the digital products. People are asking
42:19for that data. And I was like,
42:20>> "Oh, okay.
42:21>> That's really hard to get. That's going
42:23to take me hours, but I guess there's
42:26like dozens of people asking for it. So,
42:27if I do it, I could charge for it." Um,
42:30>> yeah. Do the work up front and um and
42:32sell it over and over again.
42:33>> Exactly. So, that Reddit post offers so
42:37much value in multiple different areas.
42:40Uh once you have that kind of peace of
42:42mind too, um you're so much more willing
42:45to move on to the next step, which is
42:46backlinks. Not a fun part. Probably like
42:50a lot of people's main struggle with
42:52SEO. Uh but yeah, it's how do you build
42:56backlinks? There's so many different
42:57ways, especially with directories. Um
43:00we've probably all seen them before, but
43:02badges is a great way to build a
43:05backlinks. Um, by that I mean if I had a
43:07directory for comics, comic shops, which
43:10I do. I recently launched that and the
43:12full buildout video is out there. Um,
43:16I could go and approach comic store
43:18owners and say, "Hey, like I created
43:20this badge for the top 10 best comics in
43:23San Antonio. Do you want to put on your
43:25website?" They embed onto the website.
43:27It clicks and then redirects to my
43:29website. Boom. I just got a badge
43:30backlink. Um, that's actually something
43:33that I did like three three weeks ago.
43:36>> Yeah, we did this for the VA site, too.
43:37It was a little like had a kind of a the
43:39logo and like had a little like tested
43:41stamp on it for all the ones that we
43:42like tested and personally reviewed and
43:44people would put that at the bottom like
43:45kind of in their footer. Virtual
43:47assistant assistant tested and um yeah,
43:49it was a little bit of a of a backlink
43:52boost.
43:52>> Yeah, totally. That that one's like a
43:55good one. I mean, the best backlinks are
43:58ones where I just basically take them
44:00from my competitors. Uh, sounds bad, but
44:03basically I use hrefs and I look at my
44:05competitor's backlinks again, that
44:07bounty that I found. Um, and I'll look
44:09for a kind of a mom and pop publisher,
44:12one where I reach, if I reach out to
44:14them, they'll actually respond and I'll
44:16be like, "Do you want to swap your link
44:19for mine um for 50 bucks?" Or, I'll use
44:24some form of leverage. Hey, I'm getting
44:265,000 monthly visitors. We're also the
44:27most accurate, up-to-date directory
44:29around comic books.
44:32I noticed that you link to this website.
44:34Do you want to swap it out for mine?
44:35It's going to be way better. Like, of
44:37experience. uh we actually keep up to
44:39date with this stuff. Ultimately, the
44:40idea with backlinks is you're just
44:42convincing some stranger in some part of
44:44the world to put your link on their
44:46website, right? So, there's a million
44:48ways to do that. Um you don't have to
44:50just pay 50 bucks because that can get
44:52costly, but that's all it is at the end
44:54of the day. Uh and the more niche
44:56relevant it is, the better. Uh
44:57especially in these days. So, um that's
45:00kind of how I do it.
45:02>> Got it. So yeah, if you have a if
45:03somebody's site talks about this
45:06particular thrifting store, you can
45:08reach out to them and say, "Hey, would
45:09you mind adding a link?" Or if they're
45:11already linking to your older, worse
45:13competitor, you can say, "Hey, I built a
45:15better resource. Check it out." If you
45:16genuinely think it's going to be a value
45:18ad for your readers, hey, we'd love to
45:19love for you to swap out the link
45:21because it's going to be a better
45:22experience.
45:23>> And I get those pitches all the time and
45:25sometimes I ignore them and sometimes I
45:26act on them. So it's like kind of a
45:28volume game.
45:28>> Yep. 100%. Um, you don't need many too.
45:32I I recall the first directory in the
45:34thrifting space. I think one backlink
45:38alone was enough to push me to rank one
45:41page one where my
45:43>> target keyword that gets 60 70,000
45:45monthly visitors. Uh, that's because it
45:47was hyper relevant. There was real
45:49traffic coming to the page.
45:51>> The article itself was super dialed in
45:54to my specific thrifting niche. Um, and
45:57I paid him 50 bucks. I just reached out
45:59and I'm like, "Hey, like I'm just going
46:00to be frank. Like I'm just trying to get
46:02a link swap." And he was like, "Cool.
46:04Just PayPal me 50 bucks." And uh that
46:07was it. And so yeah.
46:09>> Yeah. And that that one link has been
46:11worth how many thousands of dollars?
46:13>> It's been worth three years of$ two or
46:15$3,000 a month. So
46:16>> yeah,
46:17>> pretty pretty.
46:18>> That's that's really interesting. So
46:19sometimes it doesn't take a lot. Like
46:21don't don't sweat it like I'm going to
46:23need hundreds of these things. like it
46:24may just take a few if you've selected a
46:26low enough competition area.
46:28>> Mhm. Yep.
46:30>> Is it prim so you mentioned the digital
46:31product is it primarily display ads for
46:34you in um for your sites?
46:36>> Yep. So Mediavine Grow handles the
46:38display ads. 75% of the revenue for that
46:41first directory is display ads. So
46:43hovering around like $1,500 to $2,000 is
46:46pretty average. Uh and then the the
46:49digital products are 25% of the revenue.
46:51Um, and it's funny saying revenue cuz
46:54there's like virtually no expenses. I
46:56think I pay $7 for like a Google email
46:59and like $29 for a ConvertKit
47:03subscription. So, it's like 98% margin
47:05or something like crazy.
47:08>> Yeah. If you are used to running a an
47:10agency or any kind of other physical
47:12product type of business, you're going
47:14to be blown away by the margins in a in
47:15a fully digital business like this. It's
47:17like, okay, I got to pay for hosting,
47:19couple software tools, and it's all, you
47:21know, it's all gravy after after I cover
47:23those. Now, really, really cool. So, uh,
47:26display ads, digital products, we
47:27mentioned kind of lead genen as maybe
47:30slightly more advanced. You got to go
47:31strike up relationships and cut those
47:33deals. Um, one way that the VA site was
47:36monetized, we sold like a featured
47:37listing like you would see on Yelp or
47:39Trip Advisor, some of these other sites.
47:41Any other creative ways that you've seen
47:43people monetize? the most successful,
47:45which is definitely the hardest to pull
47:47off, is uh using directories as a top of
47:49the funnel for SAS. That's where you end
47:52up with your seven, eight, nine figure
47:54directories, which are out there. Um
47:56they're not that rare either, which is
47:59cool.
48:00>> Any examples from top of mind?
48:02>> Yeah, so uh there's one called car parts
48:05and um car-parts.com.
48:08That's one that comes to mind. Um
48:10there's there's quite a few. There's I
48:13believe uh retreat.guru is one of the
48:17biggest directories for um people who
48:20want Iawaska retreats uh around the
48:22world.
48:23>> Oh, okay.
48:23>> And they sell a SAS where
48:26>> they help if you if you're a retreat
48:29owner, if your business is putting on
48:31these retreats on, they sell you the SAS
48:33to manage that retreat business. Um so
48:36yeah, car car parts is like the biggest
48:39uh it's also incredibly ugly, which is
48:41hilarious. it makes so many millions a
48:43year. Uh, but they have so many products
48:46for um all B2B SAS for people who um are
48:51selling used car parts and other like
48:55niches within like used car uh related
48:58businesses. Um that one both of those do
49:01multiple millions. I think retreat.guru
49:03does like three or four million in
49:04revenue a year. Yeah, once you've got
49:06the eyeballs, your monetization
49:10options really open up and you can
49:12figure it out. Are you doing email? You
49:13mentioned Oh, I got my kit subscription.
49:15You doing email marketing for this
49:16stuff, too?
49:17>> Yeah, I do sometimes play around with
49:19newsletters on my directories. Um the I
49:22think that's actually a really
49:24incredible combo. For the plasma
49:26donation one, I created a lead magnet uh
49:29where I was like like, "Oh, if you want
49:31the highest paying plasma donation
49:33centers, we email that once a month,
49:35every month. Just sign up for this
49:36thing." Uh and I was getting something
49:38like 500 organic lead form submissions,
49:43which is crazier to think about because
49:46the actual take it in isn't just a
49:50normal newsletter optin where you put in
49:51your email. I make them go through like
49:53a minute to two minute long survey where
49:56they tell me as much as they know about
49:58their local plasma centers. Um, so the
50:01way that one worked was I just think
50:03it's hilarious because I didn't have any
50:05newsletter content. I simply took the
50:07information people submitted to join the
50:10newsletter because I would ask them,
50:11hey, how much does your local plasma
50:13donation pay? And I put in crowdsourcing
50:15the data for you. Yeah. I don't have to
50:16call all these places up.
50:18>> Exactly. So I crowdsourced the data. uh
50:20didn't even have any newsletter content
50:22until people started finding that. And
50:24uh to this day, I don't really work on
50:26that website too much. It's kind of just
50:27passively earning with Mediaine Grow.
50:29But um that is kind of one example of a
50:33newsletter execution. And uh the first
50:36thrifting store had a lot of signups
50:38still or still gets a lot of signups,
50:40but I don't really know what to do with
50:41them to be honest.
50:43>> Yeah. Sell them the paid thing and then
50:45afterwards
50:47I don't know there's other thrifting
50:48content. that I'm sure they'd be
50:49interested in. What's What's like a day
50:51in the life here in terms of upkeep and
50:54maintenance like on the daycarees? If
50:56you have 5,000 daycarees and you want to
50:58know the pricing, it's like painting the
50:59Golden Gate Bridge. Like once you get
51:00done, you're going to have to start back
51:01over at the beginning of the list cuz
51:02the pricing probably changed. It depends
51:05on the niche for sure. Uh with the
51:07thrifting one, I don't think I've logged
51:08into the back end of WordPress for that
51:10website in like five or six months. I
51:12just check every day and I'll be like,
51:13"Okay, cool. There's nothing wrong with
51:15the traffic." Takes about five seconds.
51:18Um, with something like a lead genen
51:20one, of course, you want to be a little
51:21bit more on top of that, especially if
51:23you're starting to sell leads and um,
51:25kind of maintain that trust. Uh, I think
51:28an easy way is just every six months,
51:31every quarter. Uh, the lazy approach,
51:33which I'm a fan of, just rescrape the
51:35data, sort by business status. If
51:38they're permanently closed, you can
51:39cross reference it that way. Um, and
51:41just remove those listings that have
51:43closed.
51:44>> Okay. for store hours that change, which
51:46kind of yeah, that's like a thing. I
51:48don't really change it that much. I just
51:50add a disclaimer saying, "Hey, these
51:51were the store hours when I first added
51:53these to the website." Like, make sure
51:55to check it yourself if you plan to
51:57visit. Um, other than that, there's not
51:59that much maintenance, I would say.
52:02>> Yeah. Looking for stuff that doesn't
52:04change all the time. I found a lot of
52:07search volume around like specific
52:09classes, dance class near me or CPR
52:12training where it's like once it's gone
52:14and expired like then it's out of date
52:17and there's a lot of upkeep. Same thing
52:19with the shoe business. The inventory
52:20turned over like seasonally for sure,
52:23but every day stuff would go out of
52:24stock and it would be a pain to stay on
52:26top of. So maybe that's a consideration
52:29too. You're like thinking how much
52:30upkeep is this gonna is this going to
52:32be?
52:32>> 100%. There is someone in my uh
52:35community that built a trivia night
52:36directory. First directory. It was a
52:39hit. I think something like eight or
52:40nine thousand monthly visitors.
52:42>> Yeah.
52:42>> But he was telling me it was a pain.
52:44Like I'd never want to work on this
52:45website. Trivia nights are so random and
52:49they could change locations or times on
52:51a whim. And so
52:52>> yeah, we we used to do it on Tuesdays,
52:54but now we do it on Wednesdays and like
52:55nobody's going to tell you.
52:57>> Exactly. So uh and then once someone has
52:59a bad experience, guess what? You lost
53:01their trust. they're probably not going
53:02to come back to your directory. So, it's
53:04just one of those things where data
53:06upkeep is is definitely something you
53:09want to consider uh going into this.
53:12>> Yeah, that's the drawback with the happy
53:13hour idea, too. It's like the menu price
53:15is obviously going to change. The menu
53:17items are obviously going to change.
53:19It's like it'll be a cool service, but
53:22hard to execute. Anything you would do
53:24differently starting over?
53:26>> Not to sound like at all self-centered
53:28in a way, but I think I had the right
53:30expectations going in. If I had to give
53:32someone one kind of main thing that led
53:35to me owning successful directory
53:38websites is that my first directory was
53:40a playground to learn SEO. There was no
53:42expectation to earn. I didn't go into it
53:44thinking, "Oh, great. This is going to
53:46be like making me thousands of dollars a
53:48month passively." That didn't even cross
53:50my mind. I think maybe one once I was
53:52like, "Oh, if this makes like $300 a
53:54month, that would be insane." But I'm
53:57really just building this to see if the
54:01SEO knowledge out there uh which is
54:04scattered everywhere. Uh it is is
54:06actually going to work. I was just using
54:09as a sandbox and that's kind of my main
54:11advice which is and it's hard because we
54:15all want to make sure that the time we
54:17spend into a project is rewarded and
54:19hopefully by money. But, uh, that's I
54:22think the fastest, um, route to success
54:26is just learn the skills cuz you're
54:28learning like five or 10 different
54:29skills when you're building directories.
54:30It's not like, oh, I'm just going to
54:32whip this up and tomorrow I'm cash
54:33flowing. It's like, no, you're you're
54:34learning web design and SEO and keyword
54:36research and there's people who have
54:38entire jobs with just keyword research.
54:40So, it's it's it's a long process. Yeah,
54:44there is there's a lot of moving parts
54:45here, but set up correctly, it could be,
54:48hey, just check those daily earnings and
54:50and keep it rolling. I love that line
54:52about like this is my playground to
54:54learn. It's my playground to learn SEO.
54:55I think that's really cool.
54:58>> Well, what's next? What's got you
55:00excited for the rest of this year?
55:02>> I think AI coding is fascinating. Um,
55:04I'm a total non-coder, non-technical
55:07person, and I've just kind of started
55:10diving in. Um, I think like playing with
55:14WordPress for probably almost 10 years
55:16now, there's certain functionalities
55:18with directories um that I could never
55:21do with WordPress. Uh, so that's really
55:23exciting. A lot of people are afraid of
55:25LLM SEO understandably, but that's
55:27exciting to me as well. Um, just like
55:29learning how that evolves and how that
55:32works. I think a lot of people are going
55:33to stop creating these websites because
55:35of this fear. I've already started
55:36seeing it in my own communities. Um, but
55:39people with high agency are just going
55:40to keep creating these. And um, I don't
55:43think logo SEO is really going to go
55:46anywhere in the next few years is kind
55:49of my take. And yeah, I have YouTube
55:51stuff going on. I have other fun
55:53projects that I have I'm juggling right
55:55now. Yeah, you're helping people learn
55:57this stuff at Freychu on YouTube. Check
55:59him out over there. shipyard
56:01directory.com is kind of a membership
56:03community for other people kind of on
56:05the same path and looking for some
56:07support and guidance and community along
56:08the way. We'll link those up in the show
56:11notes as well. Frey, this has been
56:13awesome. Um, like I said, I was excited
56:15coming in. I'm excited coming out. Um, I
56:17don't know what niche I'm going to
56:18tackle, but it's definitely on my short
56:20list of future side hustles. Let's wrap
56:23this thing up with your number one tip
56:24for Side Hustle Nation.
56:26>> Build with an open mind and build to
56:29master the skills. No one is going to
56:31reasonably expect themselves to build
56:34directories for forever. I assume if
56:36you're listening to this, you're going
56:37to build other things or probably going
56:39to maybe open up an e-commerce store or
56:42uh maybe it's some kind of boring uh
56:44brick-and-mortar business or whatever
56:46works for you. So, just learning SEO and
56:48learning how to distribute things on the
56:50internet is the play. directories is
56:55just one very narrow niche area where
56:58you can apply your learnings. And
57:00>> yeah,
57:01>> and if your site has been hit by updates
57:04over the last couple years, maybe this
57:05is something that you could use to fight
57:07back. This is something you could layer
57:09on to some existing content or add a
57:11little subsection of of your site and
57:14build out some some new authority. So,
57:16lots of different routes to go, lots of
57:18different niche ideas thrown out in uh
57:20in this episode. Again, 100 plus
57:22directory niche ideas are yours free.
57:25I'll email that to you. Just hit up
57:26sidehustselnation.comfrey.
57:29Fr. You'll be able to download that or
57:31hit up the show notes link in the
57:33episode description. It'll get you right
57:35over there. Big thanks to Frey for
57:37sharing his insight. Thanks to our
57:38sponsors for helping make this content
57:40free for everyone.
57:41Sidehustleation.com/dealss
57:43is where to go to claim all the latest
57:45offers from those sponsors in one place.
57:47Thank you for supporting the advertisers
57:49that support the show. That is it for
57:51me. Thank you so much for tuning in. If
57:53you're finding value in the show, the
57:55greatest compliment is to share with a
57:57friend. So, fire off that text message.
57:59Hey, I think you get a kick out of this
58:00one just like I did. Until next time,
58:02let's go out there and make something
58:04happen. And I'll catch you in the next
58:06edition of the Side Hustle Show.
58:08Hasselon.

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