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How to Be Happy With Any Choice You Make — Transcript

by Mark Manson · 12,580 words · 1,799 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00In the 1930s, John Paulsart was
0:03primarily a playwright and a novelist.
0:06He wasn't hadn't really spent much time
0:08doing philosophy or thinking about
0:09philosophy. But all of that changed when
0:11World War II broke out in 1939. Sart got
0:15drafted into the French army. I believe
0:17he was like a radio tower operator. He
0:19was a pretty like slight guy. Wasn't
0:22exactly your like burly soldier type.
0:24But as we all know, the French got their
0:26ass kicked. The Nazis rolled in within
0:28weeks, captured most of the territory of
0:31the country, and John Paulart was taken
0:33as a prisoner of war. Now, for the next
0:35two years, he spent time in I don't want
0:39to say it was the equivalent of a
0:40concentration camp, but it was not fun.
0:43He lived in a small isolated cell. It
0:45was probably like 6 feet by 8 feet. He
0:48was alone most of the day, and he had
0:50nothing to occupy him other than to
0:52journal ferociously. And as he was
0:54spending all that time alone in the
0:55prisoner of war camp, journaling out all
0:58of his thoughts obsessively throughout
1:00each day, he started to notice something
1:02about himself that kind of freaked him
1:04out, which was that he started to enjoy
1:07the fact that he didn't have to make any
1:09choices. Everything was planned for him.
1:11Everything he did each day he was told
1:13to do. He never had to put any sort of
1:16thought into any decisions. He was never
1:18having to choose between any two
1:20alternatives. And he realized that there
1:22was a certain level of comfort that came
1:25with this that shocked him and scared
1:28him a little bit. So he started
1:29journaling about the nature of choice
1:32itself. And he realized that choice is
1:36inherently frightening because when you
1:39choose something, you are cutting off or
1:41negating some other alternative. And as
1:45soon as you cut off some alternative,
1:47there's always this question of did I
1:48make the right choice? Am I going to
1:50regret this? And start realize that so
1:53many people go through life avoiding
1:56making choices for this exact reason.
1:59They are afraid of negating or cutting
2:02off the version of themselves that
2:04they're going to regret not pursuing.
2:06Now, all of these journals and ideas and
2:08thoughts eventually became Sart's
2:10philosophical magnumopus. It's called on
2:13being and nothingness. It is maybe the
2:16single hardest book I have forced myself
2:19to get through. I didn't finish it. I
2:21got about 400 pages in and just like
2:23[ __ ] threw in a towel. I was like, I
2:26can't take anymore. But in being in
2:28nothingness, Sart has this idea called
2:30bad faith, which is all of the
2:33mechanisms and inventions and narratives
2:37and stories that we tell ourselves to
2:40let us off the hook to not choose.
2:42Right? It's like, "Oh, well, I didn't
2:44have a choice because my family wanted
2:46me to to do this." Or, "I didn't have a
2:48choice because all all of the people I
2:50was with were going over there, so I had
2:52to go over there, too." Or, "I didn't
2:53have a choice cuz it's the economy
2:55crashed and there's nothing I could do
2:57about that." Like, we are always seeking
3:00reasons and justifications for not
3:02choosing because by not choosing, we
3:05don't have to confront that anxiety that
3:08freedom avails to us. But here's where
3:10Sart turned everything on its head. In
3:14being in nothingness, he pointed out
3:17that the refusal to make a choice is
3:20still a choice. That we are all making
3:23choices every minute of every day,
3:26whether we realize we are or not. And
3:28that living in bad faith is not actually
3:31the removal of our own choices. It is
3:34simply the subversion of our own choices
3:37into our unconscious into instinct into
3:41impulse. And S believed that this
3:44realization that you were choosing in
3:46every moment was the single crux of
3:49which all agency and ability to live and
3:53commit hinged upon. And it's interesting
3:55because if you go back to Kurkagard,
3:57there's a very similar idea in his book
3:59either or. So he had this character
4:01named Judge William. The purpose of the
4:03character is to kind of argue against
4:05the aesthetic life and promote what
4:07Kirkagard called the ethical life. Now,
4:10the argument was not your like
4:12run-of-the-mill scolding from your
4:14grandmother of like you should settle
4:16down and find a wife and have a nice
4:18life for yourself. It was actually way
4:21more interesting than that, which is
4:22that Judge William argued that you
4:26should choose choice itself. Now, on the
4:29surface, that sounds a little confusing,
4:30but I think that is Kurkagard's way of
4:32saying take all of those choices that
4:35you are outsourcing and to your impulses
4:39and your unconscious and make them
4:40conscious. Make them explicit. Walk into
4:43them openeyed. Be aware of the
4:45trade-offs that are involved in each
4:47thing that you do each day. Because as
4:50Kirkagard argued, the self is not
4:53determined by the things that you are.
4:56It's determined by the things that you
4:57chose not to be. The things that you
4:59were willing to sacrifice that other
5:01people were not willing to sacrifice.
5:03That's actually what differentiates you
5:06both to yourself and to the world around
5:08you. If you look at the word decide
5:12itself, the etmological root in Latin,
5:14it comes from the the verb desadier,
5:16which means to cut. The word decide
5:19literally means to cut off alternatives,
5:22to refuse other possibilities. And
5:25Kierkagard argued that the ability to
5:28commit yourself to something, to
5:30someone, to negate all the other
5:32alternatives, that this would actually
5:35make you a much happier, healthier, more
5:37whole person. And it turns out that
5:40modern research has really back this up.
5:43And what's interesting is that a lot of
5:46the fear that we have around choosing, a
5:49lot of the anxiety that we have that
5:50comes with freedom,
5:52a lot of it's very irrational. Before
5:55the choice, there's all these fears of
5:57like, well, what if I choose the wrong
5:58one? What if I make a mistake? What if I
6:00regret not going down this other path?
6:03Whereas what we find is that after you
6:05have chosen,
6:08your feelings are quite different. They
6:10are similarly irrational but in a
6:12different direction. And so in this in
6:14in this chapter, it's probably useful to
6:17start out by going through what is the
6:19psychological process of choosing and
6:22committing? What does that feel like?
6:24How does that actually function within
6:26your mind and how do you end up coming
6:29to see it down the road after the fact?
6:32Now, as soon as we started working on
6:34this episode and on this chapter, my
6:37mind immediately went to a researcher
6:39that I'm a huge fan of who I think his
6:42work is very relevant and appropriate
6:46here and that's Dan Gilbert who is one
6:48of the preeminent happiness researchers,
6:51positive psychologists out of Harvard.
6:53And Gilbert is a a super interesting guy
6:55because I think in a lot of ways,
6:58his life story kind of illustrates a lot
7:01of the points he makes about commitment
7:04and choice and choosing. So, quick bio.
7:08Dan Gilbert, he dropped out of high
7:10school at 15. He grew up near Chicago.
7:12It sounds like he was a bit of a hippie,
7:14a bit of a free spirit, a bit of an
7:16estate, if you will. He started
7:18hitchhiking around the country. He was
7:20reading a lot of Eastern philosophy. He
7:22was meditating. He was into all sorts of
7:24woo woo stuff. And he initially wanted
7:27to become a creative writer. So he
7:29settled around Denver with his
7:31girlfriend and his son. And he started
7:33writing science fiction on a typewriter.
7:35Now at the time he wanted to support his
7:37young family. So he went back to school
7:39and then he started going to community
7:40college. And when he arrived at the
7:43community college and wanted to sign up
7:45for creative writing courses, they were
7:48all full for that semester. And so he
7:50looked at the course listing and he
7:52asked himself, "What class will help me
7:55write science fiction better than
7:56anything else?" And he decided that
7:59psychology, that makes sense. Like if I
8:01want to be a better writer, I should
8:02probably understand a little bit about
8:03human psychology. So he took the
8:05psychology course. He loved it so much
8:08he just went all in on it. You could say
8:11he committed to it. Within a year, he
8:12had stopped writing fiction entirely and
8:14he was enrolled full-time at UC Denver.
8:16Within 10 years, he had a PhD from
8:18Princeton. And within 20 years, he was a
8:20tenure professor at Harvard doing some
8:22of the most popular research that people
8:25like you and I talk about today.
8:27>> Did you know any I didn't know any of
8:28this story beforehand. He's written, you
8:30know, stumbling on happiness, his
8:32biggest book probably and and lots of
8:34other books and I've read all of his
8:35research. I had no idea about this whole
8:37background of his. Well, it's funny
8:38actually. I do know one story about him,
8:40which is why I thought of him for this
8:42chapter and we'll get to that story in a
8:44second. But yeah, I didn't know that he
8:46kind of came from this bohemian
8:48aesthetic life and then like found
8:51psychology, went all in on it. I mean,
8:53it's actually it's a beautiful
8:54representation of kind of what this
8:56whole episode is about. Like he found a
8:58thing that resonated, decided, right? He
9:01cut off the alternatives, went all in on
9:04it, and it paid off in a in a massive
9:06way. He's got this great quote, by the
9:08way, where he said, "Make a plan for
9:10your life and then be grateful when it
9:11doesn't go that way."
9:13He's full of those. Yeah, I love him.
9:15So, Gilbert is really famous for having
9:19a lot of kind of counterintuitive
9:21happiness research. He he has all sorts
9:23of findings that show that a lot of what
9:26we expect to make us happy doesn't make
9:28us happy. And a lot of the stuff that we
9:30expect to make us unhappy doesn't really
9:32make us unhappy and vice versa. In a lot
9:34of cases, the things that we remember as
9:35making us happy like actually didn't
9:37make us that happy at the time. that
9:39basically our perception of our own
9:41happiness is very unreliable. It's quite
9:43relative given the circumstances. Now,
9:46this is going to be really important in
9:47a minute once we kind of come back to
9:49commitment. His foray into this line of
9:52research actually totally happened on
9:54accident back in the early 90s. He was
9:56having lunch with a colleague and it
9:59just so happened that both him and that
10:01colleague had endured like pretty awful
10:04years. They both had people close to
10:06them pass away. They had both had some
10:08pretty significant professional
10:10setbacks. They had had some problems in
10:11their personal lives. And they were
10:13sitting there talking about it, but also
10:15kind of analyzing themselves, as I guess
10:18psychologists do when they sit and have
10:20lunch for a long time. And they realized
10:22that both of them actually felt a lot
10:24better about their situations than they
10:26would have guessed beforehand. That they
10:28were handling everything much better
10:31than they would have predicted. and that
10:33looking back things were actually not as
10:36awful as they sounded initially. So this
10:40got them curious of like why don't we
10:42try to measure people's forecasting into
10:45what's going to make them happy and what
10:47actually makes them happy. All right,
10:48but before we get back into it, a quick
10:50word from the people who keep the lights
10:52on around here. This episode is brought
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10:57my life, I have started lots of
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12:16That's mansson.dealsshopify.
12:20And we're back. Welcome back to the
12:21Solve podcast. And this kicked off a
12:24series of fascinating findings that
12:27Gilbert later kind of packaged together
12:30and labeled the psychological immune
12:32system. And the idea behind the
12:34psychological immune system is that the
12:36same way our body will fight off
12:39bacteria and a cold virus, our
12:42psychology also seems to have a bit of
12:44an immune system to keep unhappiness and
12:49misery at bay. So it turns out that we
12:52will misremember things in our favor.
12:55that we will highlight things in our
12:57past that make us happier and subtly
13:00kind of forget the things that were
13:02unexciting or or are uninteresting. We
13:05will overestimate things in our future
13:07to generate a large sense of optimism
13:10and hope. Whereas like once we actually
13:12get the thing that we're excited about,
13:14it's
13:15>> it's never as good as you think.
13:16>> It's never as good as you think it's
13:18going to be. And so he identified all of
13:20these different ways that our mind is
13:23kind of irrational and inaccurate in
13:27terms of what it predicts and what it
13:29expects and it seems to consistently be
13:33irrational and inaccurate in the same
13:35direction which is to make us mildly
13:38happier. Our psychological immune system
13:40takes many different forms. it it comes
13:42in rationalizing post hawk
13:45justifications, reframing situations,
13:48finding silver linings to terrible
13:50things that have happened to us. It also
13:51involves a series of cognitive biases
13:53that we are just like not even aware of
13:55when they're happening. So my favorite
13:57story involving Dan Gilbert is actually
13:59about one of those biases. He had been
14:01with his girlfriend for like 15 years or
14:03something. and they had never gotten
14:04married. And he was talking to a
14:05colleague about some of his recent
14:07research and he actually found that
14:09putting constraints on somebody made
14:13them more satisfied with their situation
14:15than removing the constraints, right?
14:17It's it's kind of sart in the prisoner
14:20of war camp. It's like he found the more
14:22constraints you put on people, the more
14:24satisfied they seem to be
14:27with that situation after the fact. His
14:30colleague said, "Oh, that's really
14:31interesting. And that's like a very
14:33strong psychological argument for
14:35marriage. And Dan Gilbert sat there for
14:37a second. And up until that point, he
14:39had never really believed in the value
14:41of marriage. He saw it as kind of a
14:42pointless legal formality. And he sat
14:45there and he was like, "Oh shit." And he
14:47went home and immediately proposed to
14:49his girlfriend. And sure enough, he
14:50later said, "Getting married made me
14:52happier with my relationship." It's that
14:55barrier to exit that makes you more
14:57satisfied staying where you are. Now,
14:59this is important for commitments
15:01because it turns out that there are a
15:02lot of aspects of our psychological
15:04immune system that are kind of geared
15:06towards nudging us to be satisfied with
15:08our decisions even if it wasn't the
15:11greatest decision in the world. Right?
15:13So, the fear that the estate has, which
15:17is like I can't make a choice. What if I
15:20make the wrong choice? What if I'm not
15:22happy? What if this other choice was the
15:23better choice?
15:24>> The dizziness of freedom.
15:25>> The dizziness of freedom. It turns out
15:29once you've made the choice, your mind
15:31will unconsciously start justifying that
15:34choice to yourself and finding reasons
15:36to be happy about it. And I think this
15:38is actually an important part of our
15:41psychological software. Evolutionarily
15:43speaking, optionality was very scarce
15:47throughout most of human history. And so
15:48we have a very strong bias towards
15:50maintaining optionality. But then it
15:53makes sense once you have kind of walked
15:55through that door and closed the other
15:56doors, it makes sense that you would
15:58have a bias towards justifying that
16:01decision and being happy with whatever
16:03resulted from it.
16:05>> Opposite opposite biases depending on
16:07when like that you were talking about
16:09that anxiety before the decision versus
16:11the different anxiety you might have
16:12after it. They're completely different
16:14mechanisms it seems like. Yeah.
16:15>> And I come back to the cold pool
16:17metaphor, right? It's like the fear of
16:20jumping in is is is only matched by the
16:23satisfaction once you're already in.
16:25Like nobody ever jumps into a cold pool
16:27on a hot summer day and is like, "Why
16:29did I do this? I made the wrong
16:30decision. I should have jumped into the
16:32the hot tub instead." Like it's no,
16:34you're like, "This is nice." The cold
16:36pool example, you can't jump out of the
16:39cold pool as if you've never done it
16:41before, right? So it's whereas that that
16:44door study I was talking about where you
16:45get the three doors always keeping those
16:47three options open. There's a difference
16:48there. There's a qualitative difference
16:50there too. Categorical difference there
16:51actually the reversible versus
16:53unreversible. And that's actually
16:54something they they see in the research
16:56is that the psychological immune system
16:58actually kicks in the strongest when you
17:00have a an irreversible decision. So you
17:03make a decision, you can't go back on
17:04it, you're probably going to be more
17:06satisfied with it just because you have
17:08no other option in that case. So kind of
17:10in the short term, if you're making
17:12these decisions, if you have these
17:13irreversible decisions that you need to
17:15make, there is a little bit of an
17:16argument for like just make the
17:18decision, just do it and your brain will
17:21kind of follow you there. I think in the
17:22modern world where there is it's more
17:24like the open door study or it's more
17:25like the door study where you can keep
17:27all these doors open if you want to.
17:28There might be a better door down the
17:30hall almost at all times. I think that's
17:33where a lot of us get stuck. We have the
17:34optionality to keep all those doors
17:36open.
17:36>> Yeah. Yeah,
17:37>> but the psychological immune system
17:38works best when there are these kind of
17:39like irreversible decisions or at least
17:41ones that we perceive as irreversible.
17:43>> This lends itself to to Dan Gilbert's
17:45point that like increasing constraints
17:49on your decision actually increases your
17:51satisfaction with that decision. Like
17:53the more irreversible you can make
17:55something, the more satisfied with it
17:58you you'll probably be. It's funny
18:00actually. I just saw this yesterday on
18:02social media. It was an interview with
18:05uh the sports journalist Stephen A.
18:06Smith. He was like, "I have a friend
18:08whose prenup I believe is the most
18:10perfect legal document ever written.
18:12It's a prenup of only one sentence." You
18:16want to guess what the one sentences?
18:17Whoever leaves gets nothing. [laughter]
18:22>> How's that for incentives and
18:23irreversibility?
18:24>> Yeah. [laughter]
18:25>> Yeah. There's been decisions that I've
18:27made where it was just like, oh, I got
18:28all these options in front of me and and
18:30I felt that dizziness of freedom before
18:32and as soon as I made one, I just
18:34instantly almost felt better about it.
18:36When I finished my master's degree, I
18:38was like still like, I don't know what I
18:39want to do with my life type of thing.
18:40And I said, screw it. I'm going to go
18:41live in South America for a little
18:42while. And I was so anxious before that
18:45and I was like, I don't know what I want
18:46to do, blah blah blah. And as soon as I
18:48made that decision, I was like, there's
18:49there was clarity. I knew exactly what I
18:50need to do. I need to buy this ticket. I
18:52need to like sell all my stuff. I need
18:54to all of these things like just fell
18:56into place. I think that's part of it
18:57too is it gives you this clarity. Again,
18:59almost no matter what it was, that
19:01honestly probably wasn't a great
19:02decision of mine to do. I probably
19:04should have just kept going with with on
19:05a a more stable career path at the time.
19:08But that said, I made the decision and
19:12it removed a lot of that uncertainty
19:14around it.
19:15>> You're alluding to something. This is
19:17actually a point I made in subtle art
19:19and it's something that I believe very
19:22strongly but it's it's very hard to
19:23communicate. I think people who are very
19:26aesthetic in in the way they live like
19:28it just they don't understand what you
19:30just described is an is a very subtle
19:32form of freedom in that when you cut off
19:36the alternatives it actually frees you
19:39to focus on the thing that you chose on
19:42>> right and that's actually a very
19:44powerful form of freedom. The example
19:46I've given a number of times is is when
19:48I got engaged to my wife. Like I fredded
19:50and worried about that for so many
19:52months. I I agonized over it. And then
19:54as soon as I proposed, it was like this
19:58burden was lifted off my shoulders. And
20:00the way I describe it is that it was
20:02like I had this like software running in
20:03the back of my head that was always
20:05like,
20:07"Where's the hot girl? Does she like me?
20:10Should I talk to her?" even when I had a
20:12girlfriend, like that was it was quietly
20:14still kind of operating because you're
20:16still kind of even if you're in a
20:17relationship, you're still kind of
20:18measuring your sexual market value, I
20:21guess. And as soon as I got engaged,
20:23it's like that software shut down and
20:25all of this RAM and bandwidth was was
20:27like freed up for me to focus on things
20:29I actually gave a [ __ ] about. And the
20:31experience was liberation. And I
20:33remember that like really [ __ ] with my
20:35head because as we talked about last
20:37chapter, like I'd spent pretty much all
20:39my 20s living an aesthetic life and
20:43pursuing as much novelty and stimulation
20:45as possible. And so then the fact that
20:47like the most significant
20:51confining choice that I had ever made up
20:53until that point in my life, I also
20:55experienced as the most liberating like
20:57really mind [ __ ] me.
20:58>> Yeah. What we think of as freedom, that
20:59optionality. What you're saying is no
21:01actually making a decision is freedom.
21:02You have the you have the choice. You
21:04have the freedom to make that decision
21:06to cut off all these other things.
21:07That's a very different way about of of
21:09thinking about freedom. I believe John
21:11Dwey had this concept of positive
21:14freedom and negative freedom. Positive
21:16freedom was optionality. It was freedom
21:18to do a lot of things. Whereas negative
21:20freedom was freedom from it was it was
21:23freedom from impediments. It was freedom
21:25from distraction. And I think when you
21:28make a choice, you are trading positive
21:31freedom for negative freedom. You're
21:32trading in lots of options of what you
21:35could do for the freedom to only focus
21:39on the thing you have chosen to do.
21:41>> In my example, when I decided to go live
21:43in South America, right, and ran into a
21:45whole bunch of issues while I was down
21:46there, like I was teaching English and
21:48that the school I was working with was
21:49going bankrupt and I wasn't getting paid
21:51and all this. And I remember I was
21:52staying at this hostel and uh there was
21:55this guy there. was from Iceland, spoke
21:56like five languages. His name was
21:58Daniel. He lived all over the world. And
22:00I was talking with him about my
22:01situation. And I had I had decided to I
22:03need to move back. And I kind of fell
22:05into the whole bad faith thing. I was
22:07like, "Oh, I have to move back because I
22:08can't, you know, there's all these
22:10financial things around it and I'm
22:12homesick and oh, I need to get back to
22:14my career and all of these things." So,
22:15I told him, you know, I have to go back.
22:17And he says, "You don't have to go
22:19back." [laughter]
22:21And I'll remember that. He was very
22:22cleareyed about his life, too. like he
22:24he he kind of lived that bohemian life
22:26in a way, but he's like, I I choose this
22:27and I understand it uh in a way that I I
22:30think a lot of people didn't. My point
22:32there, though, too, is that even once
22:35you make that decision, though, it's
22:36it's not a one-time thing, right? Just
22:38like your marriage, your your decision
22:40to marry your wife, that that wasn't
22:42actually a one-time decision. It was in
22:44alignment with something that you
22:45valued, for sure, but it wasn't just
22:48this one-time event that, oh, all of a
22:50sudden, now I'm just I don't have to
22:51worry about this ever again. the RAM
22:53thing you're talking about, all of that
22:55that that went away, sure, but you still
22:57have to make that decision and that
22:58commitment over and over. We we
23:00mentioned this before, commitment isn't
23:01the one-time decision. It's a mechanism
23:04for cutting off all of these other uh
23:06routes and for defining who you are.
23:08>> It's funny, I had a friend in my 20s, an
23:10older friend, who was a bit of a mentor
23:12figure to me for a while, and it was
23:14really annoying, but it was also
23:15something that looking back I kind of
23:17appreciate, you know, cuz I could be
23:18like a whiny young person at times, be
23:21like, I can't do that. and it's not
23:22fair, you know, all that sort of [ __ ]
23:24He was about 10 years older than me and
23:25I remember every time I ever said I
23:27can't do this, he would interrupt me and
23:29say, you can, you choose not to. And and
23:32I was just like, whatever, dude. Like,
23:35shut up. You know, [laughter] but it's
23:37like he said it enough times that it
23:39started to sink in of like, okay, yeah,
23:41I I can stay in Chile if I want, right?
23:44Like I don't have to go back to the US.
23:47You're refusing to pay the cost of
23:49choosing is what you're doing there.
23:50Sart made that point as well. It wasn't
23:52necessarily that you can do whatever you
23:54want. That's not what he's saying. You
23:55have the ability to choose how to
23:57respond to whatever situation you're in,
23:59whatever life throws at you. I can't
24:00choose to be 6'5, right? Like, but I can
24:03choose to interact with a world in a way
24:06that my height might not matter or
24:08whatever it is, right? I think that's an
24:09important thing. He acknowledged that.
24:11It wasn't just like, oh no, you know,
24:13your choices are limitless and you can
24:15choose whatever you want. Yes, you have
24:16to cut off these or whatever. He
24:18acknowledged there are limits that you
24:19have to work within.
24:20>> I think it's very analogous to the point
24:23Annie Duke made on the last episode. You
24:25know, she made the point she was like,
24:26"Look, you are always
24:29weighing options and kind of making
24:32decisions based on probabilities or or
24:34making decisions as as bets, right? That
24:36like something's going to work." She
24:38said, "That's how your brain works
24:40anyway. The question is is how aware of
24:43it are you?" Because most people who are
24:45not aware of it, they just go with their
24:47gut, right? They just do what the people
24:49around them are doing. They're they're
24:50just doing what they feel like is
24:51expected of them. And so the
24:54decision-making process is still
24:56happening, but it's happening under the
24:57surface. She called it under the hood.
24:59It's happening beneath the surface of
25:02the threshold of consciousness. It's
25:03similar with this of like the the
25:06willingness to limit yourself and and
25:09cut cut off the opportunities for
25:11yourself. You're always doing that
25:13anyway. You're always choosing things
25:15anyway. Living in bad faith is when you
25:17you intentionally keep it buried beneath
25:20the surface. Keep it unconscious for
25:21yourself. And when you keep it
25:23unconscious for yourself, you don't have
25:24control over it, right? You can't manage
25:26it or navigate it. It just becomes very
25:29impulsive and instinctual.
25:31>> Choosing how you react to your own
25:33emotions.
25:34>> Yes.
25:35>> I you could even go down to that level,
25:37I think, too. You could even argue
25:38you're choosing your emotions in many
25:40cases. Like that that gets hard. I think
25:44there's some some situations that you
25:46cannot choose, right? Like if somebody I
25:48love gets hit by a car in front of me,
25:50like obviously I cannot I'm not
25:52consciously I'm not choosing how I feel
25:54in that moment. But there are a lot of
25:55situations where you are actually
25:56choosing to be pissed or choosing to
26:00feel sorry for yourself. It comes down
26:02to how you are choosing to see it. like
26:04what is this the narrative that you are
26:08choosing to write around this situation?
26:10If most of what you're feeling is
26:11dictated by that narrative, then to a
26:13large degree, you are actually choosing
26:15that emotion in that moment.
26:17>> One more example I think I'll bring up
26:18is actually when I got the job with you
26:20and I've I've talked about this before a
26:22little bit. I kind of like come in and
26:24out of academia a little bit. I took a
26:25break and went to South America for a
26:26little while, came back to academia,
26:29got into a PhD program and all this. I
26:31never quite felt at home with that
26:33though, you know, and I always was like,
26:35I want to go do something more creative
26:37and like I love the internet and all of
26:39these things. I got the job offer with
26:40you and like immediately that was one of
26:42those things too where like my
26:44psychological immune system like kicked
26:45in because there was people all around
26:46me like are you crazy? What are you
26:48doing? You know, and I was like no what
26:49you're crazy like I'm fine right that
26:52was an instance where my I think my
26:53psychological immune system had kicked
26:55in and helped me like accept that
26:56decision and give me some clarity around
26:58it. Can we talk about that feeling?
27:00Because I actually think that's really
27:02important. Yeah. Yeah. When it comes to
27:03to commitment, it's probably what
27:05Gilbert felt when he took that first
27:06psychology course. And like I went to
27:08school, I studied international business
27:10and finance. I got a job in a bank. I
27:12[ __ ] hated like from the first hour.
27:15I hated my existence inside the bank. I
27:18used to pass the time by reading books
27:20because I just hated being there so
27:21much. And one of the books I read was
27:23Tim Ferrris's 4-hour work week. And I
27:25remember reading that and being like, I
27:27know how to make a website. I'm a pretty
27:29good writer. I'm pretty sure I could
27:31figure this out, right? Like, why don't
27:33I make a go at it? I remember I worked
27:36up the nerve to quit my job maybe a
27:39month later and I woke up. I the the
27:43first day at home, I started building a
27:44website. I had no idea what I was doing.
27:47It was a [ __ ] show. I mean, like the the
27:49first like six months was I mean, I was
27:52just flailing. nothing was working. Tech
27:55issues, like building sites that nobody
27:58visited, working for a month to sell
28:01something and like getting literally
28:03getting zero sales. But I remember the
28:05whole time I was doing it, I was like, I
28:07would rather be broke and do this than
28:10go back to the bank and have money. Like
28:12I remember just being like, I'm so
28:14there's something about this that I'm
28:15like, I'll be homeless. I don't care.
28:17I'm like perfectly fine doing this as
28:20long as I get to do this. I don't care
28:22how much money I make. I I'm never going
28:25back to to the corporate world ever
28:26again. And I also trusted that like
28:29eventually one day I'll figure it out.
28:31But like what is that feeling? Like
28:33we've kind of talked about this on the
28:34change episode that like we all have
28:36predispositions towards things. And a
28:38lot of times we're not aware of what
28:40those predispositions are. It takes a
28:42lot of time and experience to like
28:44really understand yourself and
28:45understand like what's right for you. A
28:47lot of people who struggle to commit to
28:49something and like find their path, it's
28:51largely because they they haven't had
28:53many of those experiences where they've
28:55done something and they're like, "Oh,
28:56this is it. I don't care what anybody
28:58else says. I don't care if I go broke."
29:00Like, "This is it." Part of it is just
29:03like exercising that decision muscle a
29:07little bit, too. I want to go back to
29:09something here. I I mentioned early at
29:11the top of the show that you have been a
29:14little more extreme in this domain than
29:16a lot of people. You were at your
29:17corporate job for what was it all of
29:18like six or eight weeks
29:20>> at most?
29:20>> Something like that. Okay. I went in and
29:22out of academia for like six or eight
29:23years. Okay. Like that's what I was
29:25doing. I think it was that's more common
29:27I think is people kind of like kind of
29:28coming in and out. Now I had this I
29:30always had this pole kind of in and out
29:32of it and and I knew I couldn't sit in
29:34there forever. You you figured that out
29:36early on. It took me a little bit longer
29:38which I think a lot of people it takes
29:39them a little bit longer. That feeling
29:41though that you're talking about, I
29:43think there were little like I had
29:46little little mini [laughter]
29:47revelations along the way along the way.
29:50I was like, "Oh, this feels good." And
29:52then I kind of like slide back into it
29:53and like h pull myself back out.
29:55Eventually though, I think you do get to
29:56a point where like, "Well, [ __ ] it. I'm
29:58just doing it."
29:59>> It's unavoidable at that point. So,
30:00yeah. I think what I've observed is that
30:03people who have lived in bad faith for a
30:06long time, who have followed everybody
30:09else's rules, done what everybody else
30:11wants, done what everybody else expects
30:13of them, they've never gotten the reps,
30:17>> because I think probably what's what's
30:18true in the case of you and I is that
30:20throughout our lives, we we did things
30:22for no other reason than we enjoyed
30:24them. And so, we learned things about
30:25ourselves. Whereas if if you're somebody
30:27who like grew up in an environment where
30:29there's zero opportunity to do things
30:32because you enjoy them. I I'll use my
30:33wife as an example. So like she grew up
30:35extremely poor in Brazil. Like she
30:36couldn't go take a an art class cuz she
30:38felt like it. Like she had to get the
30:40[ __ ] out of poverty. So it was every
30:42decision in her life had nothing to do
30:46with what she actually wanted other than
30:49not being poor.
30:50>> Right. Survival. Yeah.
30:51>> Right. Until she was like 28. And so she
30:54went through a period where like she
30:55really struggled to know like what do I
30:57what do I actually enjoy? What do I
30:59actually care about? What do I actually
31:00want? I've observed this with over the
31:02years talking to readers and listeners
31:04that like people who grow up in that
31:07kind of situation where they've just
31:08always done what the people around them
31:10expect them to do. They've never even
31:12asked themselves what they want. They
31:14really struggle with this. Like they've
31:16never had that experience that you just
31:17described of like, oh, this is it. One
31:19of one of the things I I sometimes
31:21suggest to them is like try to go back
31:23ask yourself like what did you love when
31:25you were a kid
31:27that for some reason you kind of just
31:29dropped along the way and it was pro you
31:32probably dropped it because it wasn't
31:33cool. Maybe kids made fun of you. Maybe
31:36your parents told you it wasn't
31:37practical or maybe your teachers told
31:40you it was a waste of time. But like
31:43what got dropped along the way?
31:45Exercising that muscle is important and
31:47the sooner you can do it the better.
31:49There there's constraints on you.
31:50There's going to be constraints on you.
31:52Yet even as Start would say, you even
31:54have a choice within those even if
31:55you're very limited. Your wife's example
31:57even too, she found a way out. You know,
31:59you always have a choice. They might be
32:00shitty choices, but you always have that
32:02choice. And so exercising that early on,
32:04I think that the psychological immune
32:06system helps us out with that. Um
32:07because you make a choice and and your
32:09brain's going to be like, "All right,
32:10we're doing it." It will increase your
32:11feel good feelings about it. You'll be
32:13more focused on it. you'll work harder
32:15on it in the short run. Really, where
32:18the durability comes in is when you're
32:20making decisions that are aligned with
32:22your values and what you actually want
32:23about this. There's some research around
32:25this. It's called self-conordance. It is
32:27exactly what it sounds like is making
32:29these decisions and these commitments
32:30that are aligned with what you actually
32:34like truly want, what you you have to
32:36listen to that like you're saying, maybe
32:37it is something for your childhood or
32:38whatever you want. I'm not saying like
32:40go with your gut all the time. That's
32:41not what I'm saying necessarily. It's
32:42like actually figuring out what you want
32:44and making a commitment to that, cutting
32:47off all the other outside options. That
32:50actually is what leads to a longer sense
32:52of a longer, more durable sense of
32:54well-being around these things. You're
32:56you're much more likely to be persistent
32:59through a lot of these things. You're
33:00much more likely to have just better
33:01mental health and really be satisfied
33:05with those decisions. Your psychological
33:07immune system can can get you through
33:08the short run. So my example with the
33:10chili thing, I was like, "Oh yeah, I
33:11want like adventure and freedom and all
33:13of this and that was good for a few
33:15months that that only lasted me a few
33:17months though, right? It wasn't super
33:19durable. I needed something more and I
33:21wasn't quite sure, do I really want this
33:22freedom? I don't know. Do I want do I
33:24need more stability?" I was kind of
33:25going back and forth between it. So it
33:26wasn't like a really fully aligned
33:29decision or commitment that I made. I'm
33:30going to work with you or whatever. That
33:32was much more in line with this is what
33:33I want to do. And it was much more
33:35durable sense of well-being that I got
33:36out of that. That's the second step in
33:38this system. I think
33:39>> I'm gonna challenge that a little bit
33:41though, right? Because
33:42>> I would argue you had to go to Chile to
33:44find that out.
33:45>> Sure. Oh, yeah.
33:46>> I think this is kind of the irony of
33:48people who avoid choosing. By not
33:51choosing, you you only maintain and
33:54increase that sense of uncertainty. If
33:56you choose and it doesn't work out, then
33:58good because now you know that's not the
34:00thing for you, right? Like that's
34:02information. It's valuable. You came
34:04back to the US. you you you're like,
34:06"Okay, I I did the South America thing.
34:08I did the travel to the live abroad
34:09thing. I know how that feels now. I that
34:13now that informs my future decisions."
34:15People might be listening to this and
34:17just thinking like, "Okay, well, I got
34:18to choose something like just out of a
34:20hat, you know?" It's like, "No, no, no.
34:21You should you should really think about
34:22like what matters to you kind of on a
34:24deep level and use that as a
34:26navigation." The the other piece of
34:28advice that I I often give around this
34:30is that I think for a lot of people it's
34:31actually it's easier for them to to
34:33start with what they don't want. Right?
34:36So instead of like
34:38>> say taking all the things they're doing
34:39in their life and like choosing one to
34:41to commit to or go deep on, maybe just
34:44start by picking the one or two things
34:46that you're currently spending time
34:47doing that like is not bringing a whole
34:49lot of value and like just cut those out
34:51first and then slowly prune until you
34:55kind of see what you're you end up with.
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36:04All right, welcome back. You cut off the
36:07things you don't want to do. I get that.
36:09What happens though when you still
36:11regret it though? Like if you do come to
36:13regret a decision you make or h how does
36:15regret work in this this system that
36:18we're building here?
36:19>> I'll give you my personal take and then
36:21you can you can give us the research.
36:23It's funny because I have so few regrets
36:26and it's exactly for what I said. It's
36:28like even the things that I did that
36:29turned out to be stupid, I learned that
36:32they were stupid and I learned not to do
36:34them again, right? And so like those bad
36:36decisions provided just as much value as
36:38some of my good decisions because they
36:41they taught me just as much. What I've
36:43noticed over the years and I I've like
36:46dude I've done a lot of stupid [ __ ] The
36:48only things I regret in the long run is
36:52how I've treated people.
36:53>> Oh, okay.
36:54>> I never regret a bad decision. Like I
36:56I've I have done so many stupid I've
36:58wasted
37:00>> so much money on like
37:02>> dumb decision like bad business
37:04ventures. Like I have made a fool of
37:06myself. I've embarrassed myself. I have
37:08[ __ ] shot myself in the foot in so
37:11many so many contacts, so many
37:13situations. The only things I regret are
37:16times that I've hurt somebody I really
37:18care about.
37:19>> Sure. Okay. Some people would point to
37:21you and say, "Well, you're just not
37:22prone to regret, Mark. guess that's
37:23you're just not a person who regrets
37:25things. I would argue no, that's not
37:27actually the case because in the
37:28research what they found is that what
37:30people end up regretting is the actions
37:32not taken. You have this tendency to
37:35just take action. It's exactly what they
37:37find in the research is that uh in the
37:38short run anyway people kind of like
37:40they make a decision 50/50 they regret
37:42it or not, right? In the long run though
37:44when they when people look back they're
37:45like I don't regret making that decision
37:47even though it turned out horribly. Like
37:49I don't regret making the decision. what
37:51they regret is not making a decision is
37:53is inaction. You know, Warren Buffett
37:55points this out too about a lot of the
37:56investments. He's like, "The ones I
37:57regret are the ones I didn't make." It's
37:59like, "If I lost money, I lost money,
38:00whatever, on the ones I made." But it's
38:02the ones I didn't make that I regret the
38:04most. And it's the same is true
38:05throughout life as well. So, I don't
38:07think you're actually not a regret. I
38:10thought that for a little while, but
38:10then I thought about it more and I was
38:11like, "No, he's not regret. He just
38:13>> I compulsively take action."
38:15>> He compulsively takes action. Yeah. I
38:17will say this, I do have like very like
38:19kind of subtle regrets, but it's always
38:21it is similar to that. It's around
38:22wasted time.
38:23>> Wasted time making a decision. Wasted
38:25time making a commitment. Yeah.
38:26>> Yeah. And in my case, it was it's never
38:29like not making a decision. I mean, I've
38:31known people who spent years, wasted
38:34years avoiding making a decision and
38:36then once they make the decision,
38:38they're like, "Oh my god, I can't
38:39believe I wasted so many years." And
38:41they feel really bad about it. For me,
38:42it's more like I pursued things that in
38:46hindsight were kind of dumb, not very
38:48aligned with my my values or my my
38:51long-term who I wanted to be. And so, I
38:53just kind of look back and I'm like,
38:56"All right, that was stupid." In my
38:58case, it's actually kind of the
38:59opposite. I think there's like maybe I
39:01took too much action on some things. I
39:04spent too much time pursuing things that
39:06were like kind of dumb and ultimately
39:08didn't add a whole lot to my life.
39:09>> That gets into the self-conordance
39:10thing. But, yeah.
39:11>> Yeah. So, it's it's like I look back at
39:13the amount of partying I did in my 20s
39:15and I'm like, "Okay, I'm glad I did like
39:1875% of it. There's about 25% I'm like,
39:22"Dude, stay home and work. Watch a movie
39:25or something." You know, I I took it too
39:27far. Yeah. This kind of reminds me a
39:29little bit too, you know, we had Annie
39:30Duke on last time and in her book, she
39:32has a book on quitting. One of the big
39:34points I got out of that is people wait
39:36too long to quit usually. And I would
39:38just generalize that people wait too
39:39long to make a decision period. I can
39:41definitely point to a lot of things in
39:43my life where I was like, I spent way
39:45too long considering this. They've shown
39:47studies around people trying to make big
39:49life decisions around work, school,
39:50relationships, right? And they measure
39:53how much they, you know, how much do you
39:55think this is uh going to affect you? Uh
39:58this is going to be a bad or a good
39:59decision at the time. And then they
40:00follow up with them months later and did
40:02you quit or not? The people who quit
40:04earlier report a lot more satisfaction
40:06than people who don't. So, it's like
40:08you're waiting too long to quit. And I
40:10would just say in general, you're
40:11waiting too long just to make a
40:12decision, period. I'm not prone to
40:14regret, but I do agree with you. I'm
40:15prone to action. I would rather just do
40:18something and then figure it out along
40:19the way. And as somebody who does that
40:21kind of compulsively, I can report from
40:23the other side. They're like, there's
40:24never been a time where I'm like, I
40:26should have waited longer to do that. I
40:28cannot think of a single thing in my
40:30life that I'm like, I should have waited
40:32longer. I do things very quickly. I
40:34don't I I do not sit around and like
40:36agonize over many decisions in my life.
40:39I cannot think of a single one that I'm
40:40like, "Oh, I should have thought about
40:42that for another another month or
40:44another year." I I think you just get
40:45better at making decisions, too, the
40:46more you make. Obviously, that like it's
40:48a volume game at a certain point. Here's
40:50the thing, though. Kirkagard's ethical
40:51life, his argument, you know, that Judge
40:54William character he made up, Judge
40:55Williams argument was not you're going
40:57to feel better about your decisions if
41:00you just make them, right? If you commit
41:01to something, you're going to feel
41:02better about that. was not his argument.
41:04His argument was that making commitments
41:09creates the self. It creates an identity
41:11for you, something solid and something
41:13like worth standing for is what
41:15commitments do for you. Yes, you'll feel
41:18better about it. Like that's a benefit.
41:20I think that's the kind of like the
41:21psychological sneakin that we have is
41:23that there is some well-being you're
41:25going to get from some of this, but
41:26ultimately what Kerkugard argued was the
41:28ethical life is not defined by feeling
41:30good about it. It's about creating a
41:32self. You can't create a self without
41:34commitments. And the research be bears
41:36this out too. There's this guy James
41:37Marsha back in the 60s who kind of
41:39started this work on identity formation.
41:42And he operationalized like your
41:45identity formation along these two axes
41:47or these these two components really.
41:49One he called crisis which is really
41:52dramatic um because all that is is
41:54actually exploring. You're in
41:55exploration phase. That's your crisis
41:57phase he called it. And then commitment
41:58was the second phase too. an investment
42:00in some part of your life in some firm
42:02decision in your life, right? And so if
42:05you take those two components, you can
42:07come up with kind of four different
42:08things if you have, you know, low crisis
42:10versus high commitment or so on and so
42:13forth, right? Okay, so he comes up with
42:14these four identity statuses out of
42:17this, okay? And I'll just run through
42:18them really quick here. So the the first
42:20one is what he calls diffusion, which is
42:22low crisis, low explor exploration, and
42:25low commitment. This is just somebody
42:26who's not thinking about their options
42:28and not really committing to anything,
42:29right? They're just it's very much go
42:31with the flow. You're not really engaged
42:33with life at all on any level. The next
42:35one though, he called foreclosure.
42:37That's low exploration and high
42:39commitment. So these are the people who
42:41definitely look around and it's like
42:42it's more like this is what I'm supposed
42:43to do and I'm going to commit hard to
42:45it. You know, I'm going to take the safe
42:47job and marry this certain person.
42:49>> Do what my parents told me.
42:50>> Do what my parents told me. So there's a
42:52very high level of commitment. So you
42:54might get some psychological immune
42:55system benefit from that but at the same
42:58time you haven't explored that deeply.
43:00So we talked about the self-conordance
43:01thing. You don't have the self-awareness
43:02around whether or not that was good for
43:04you. Right? The next one is moratorium.
43:07So this is where there's high
43:09exploration but low commitment. This is
43:10where the athlete lives. At least for
43:12like younger people in this phase they
43:15were a lot more likely to reach the next
43:17phase which he called achievement which
43:20is both a high exploration and a high
43:22commitment. So this is someone who's
43:23very deliberate, eyes wide open type of
43:25decision that they make. And they found
43:27through all this, you know, that the the
43:29people who do reach that achieved
43:30commitment status, they're the ones who
43:32have the highest well-being and
43:34everything we just talked about too, the
43:35psychological immune system kicks in.
43:36And then they also like, oh, I have this
43:38long-term sense of well-being. It is
43:40durable and I feel good about it. I have
43:42good mental health, good relationships,
43:43all of that. But also, they have a very
43:46strong sense of who they are, a strong
43:48sense of self. I think somebody hears
43:50that and somebody who might not have a
43:51real strong sense of themselves might
43:53not know what that means. Like what is a
43:55strong sense of self? What is a strong
43:57sense of self? I'm going to ask you that
43:58first. What do you think that that
43:59entails?
44:00>> I think it's it's a high degree of
44:04confidence in knowing,
44:06what you value,
44:09what you prefer, what you're good at,
44:11what you're bad at. And I would argue
44:12that some degree of self-exloration is
44:14necessary for that. You kind of need
44:16this exploration phase when you're young
44:18to put yourself in a bunch of novel
44:21situations to get that information. Like
44:23you have to go to Chile to find out that
44:24you don't want to live there long term
44:27because that teaches you something very
44:29important about yourself when you come
44:30back. And so that makes it easier to do
44:32future decisions. Now you're better able
44:34to close off alternatives because you
44:36know more about yourself.
44:37>> I think that's what the research bears
44:38out too. And you you kind of just have a
44:40almost no matter where you are, where
44:42you go, you kind of feel the same in a
44:44way. We all kind of change who we are in
44:46different situations. I get that. But
44:47there's still like a sense of yourself
44:49that you have throughout those different
44:51situations. You know who you are, right?
44:53And if you don't have that sense of
44:55yourself, I think a lot of it is because
44:57you haven't really committed to
44:59something in your life, right? And you
45:01don't have that to fall back on. If we
45:03come back to my definition, which by the
45:04way, I just totally pulled out of my
45:06ass, but I feel pretty good about the
45:07high degree of confidence in one's
45:09values, preferences,
45:11talents, and and abilities. commitments
45:14solidify that, right? If I commit to
45:16this career and I spend all of my time
45:18doing this one thing, that is going to
45:21increase my confidence in in who I am,
45:23right? It's like I am a podcaster, I am
45:25an author, right? Like it's I've been
45:27doing this for 20 years. So, I have a
45:29high degree of confidence that that is
45:31who I am. Whereas like if I haven't
45:33really
45:34tried many things and if I haven't
45:36really had many jobs and I haven't done
45:39anything for more than a year that I'm
45:41going to have a very low degree of
45:42confidence in who I am because I haven't
45:44accumulated that evidence to to gain
45:47that self-standing. It's funny how this
45:49is tying into the confidence piece of
45:51like right we we did a whole confidence
45:53episode and one of the big takeaways
45:55from that is that actually confidence is
45:57it's not the input of performance it's
46:00the output of performance and it's it is
46:02uh built through accumulating evidence
46:04that you're capable of handling a
46:06situation and it's like a positive
46:08feedback loop it's like the more I'm
46:10able to make a decision and commit to
46:11something the more I learn about myself
46:14the more I learn about myself the better
46:16able I'm going to be to make commitments
46:18and decisions in the future. And so you
46:20kind of get this upward spiral of
46:22commitments and self-nowledge.
46:24And as we'll find in the next chapter or
46:26in the next stage, Kirkagar's next stage
46:28is that eventually you kind of hit
46:29escape velocity with that. And and in
46:31that you find a commitment that you are
46:35happy to take to your grave with you.
46:36This episode's called Finding Your Path
46:38in Life, but like it's kind of an airy
46:40fairy thing, but I think that is
46:42ultimately what people crave is that
46:45they want something that they feel
46:47confident. I can do this till I'm dead.
46:50Coming back to that that liberation.
46:52Like as soon as you hit that, like that
46:54is actually incredibly liberating. It's
46:56almost like a marriage to a vocation or
46:59a career or a place or whatever, like a
47:01hobby. Once you find that, you're like,
47:02"Cool, I never have to think about this
47:04again." But I think it's important to
47:06note that like the ethical stage, you're
47:08not quite there yet. This is almost like
47:10an intermediary stage. The aesthetic
47:12stage, you're chasing stimulation,
47:15you're chasing novelty, you're trying
47:18new things, you're exploring. The
47:20ethical stage is where you start coming
47:22in with that razor and you're like,
47:24"Nope, not that. Nope, not that. I'm
47:27going to try this. See how it goes."
47:28>> It's very intentional.
47:29>> It's very intentional. and and Kerkagard
47:32wrote about it in terms of like doing it
47:35opened, understanding
47:38the trade-offs that you're making. Like
47:39if you commit to a partner or you commit
47:41to moving to a new city, you're
47:44committing to both the good and the bad
47:46things about that that experience.
47:48>> Is there something along the lines of
47:50holding the tension between those two?
47:52Like you're wideeyed about that. You're
47:53like, I I continue to choose this even
47:55though I got this thing over here. like
47:57like you said, deciding to get married
47:59and like shutting down the RAM and
48:00whatever. There's still though an aspect
48:03of that where it's like I know I'm
48:04leaving this all behind. Yes, it's
48:06easier dayto-day because I have this
48:08commitment, but there's still an aspect
48:09of I know exactly what I'm what I'm
48:12doing here, what I'm leaving behind,
48:13what I'm giving up. I think that's the
48:15real weight of the ethical stage is is
48:18that it's not again it's not that you're
48:20going to feel better about this cuz
48:21sometimes you're not. There's actually
48:23going to be a lot of tension still in
48:24the ethical stage.
48:26There will be doubt, right? There'll be
48:27there'll be times where you're like,
48:29>> "Did I make the right decision?" Like,
48:30"Did I [ __ ] this up?"
48:32>> That's part of it, right? Like if you
48:34didn't have that, it wouldn't be a
48:35commitment.
48:36>> Ah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's a
48:38that's actually a signal to like you're
48:40fully eyes wide open about what you've
48:42given up. That's actually and and you
48:45have some doubts around it. Yeah.
48:47>> Let me go through really quick. You
48:48know, we we talked a bit about we gave
48:50examples of of the aesthetic life in
48:52different domains, right? So, the
48:54aesthetic who's dating, right? They're
48:57constantly swiping. They're constantly
48:59imagining that the next person's better,
49:01right? They're just cycling through lots
49:03and lots of first and second dates. A
49:05person in the ethical stage, they would
49:06approach dating and relationships as
49:09like, "No, I'm going to I'm going to
49:11give this person I'm going to commit
49:13myself to this person and see where this
49:14goes." Right? It's it is that cutting
49:16off of other options. Maybe you're not
49:19married yet. Maybe you're not like
49:21imagining that you're going to die with
49:22this person, but like you're at least
49:24making the decision of like seeing where
49:27this goes. In career, you know, the
49:29aesthetic person in their career, they
49:31are changing their career every other
49:33year. They are going back to school,
49:36taking classes every couple years.
49:37They're moving to Costa Rica to become a
49:39surf instructor because they're burnt
49:40out. There's always something new.
49:43They're chasing kind of the next the
49:44next novelty, the next high. an ethical
49:46person has chosen a line of work and
49:49they're like, "You know what? I'm gonna
49:50at least pursue mastery at this because
49:54I need to become excellent at something.
49:56Maybe this isn't the perfect thing, but
49:59I like it. So, I'm going to go for it."
50:01And there's going to be days that it
50:02sucks and there's going to be days that
50:03I wonder like what the hell I'm doing,
50:05but that's part of it. So, let's go for
50:07it. We talked about the aesthetic life
50:10in terms of choosing where you live. You
50:12know, an aesthetic person is always
50:14traveling, always moving, always
50:16changing cities, always in and out of
50:18town, going back, visiting family, going
50:21abroad, like seeing old friends, coming
50:23back. The ethical life is a little bit
50:26more rooted, right? It's like, okay, I
50:29it's probably best for me to be here,
50:31even if I don't always love it. Even
50:32though the city has problems, even
50:34though there are things I don't like,
50:36it's overall this aligns with my values
50:38and this aligns with the other areas of
50:40my life. So, I'm going to like make a
50:42good go at it and understand that the
50:44trade-offs that I'm taking on.
50:45>> Can I just say there in in recent years
50:48that's probably one of the more salient
50:51examples of my life uh like choosing
50:54where to live where I live in Colorado
50:55now. I've left twice and I've come back
50:57twice. Okay. And then a couple years ago
50:59kind of, you know, when we started the
51:00podcast, you were like, "Hey, if you
51:01want to move out to LA, I don't know if
51:03I've ever really talked to you about
51:04this, but I've I struggled with that
51:06quite a bit. I have a really good
51:08community there. We've talked about this
51:09before and I decided that's a big part
51:12of what I value. The thing about that
51:15one though is unlike a lot of the other
51:18decisions in my life. That one I made
51:19pretty eyes wide open. I was like, I
51:21know what I'm giving up. I I give up
51:23FaceTime with you. Probably some money
51:25I've left some money on the table for
51:26sure. I know you have like your
51:27executive meetings out here that I'm not
51:29a part of. That is a decision I've made
51:31eyes wide open. Now again though, it's
51:34the commitment isn't a one-time thing.
51:36I've had to like re-up that because
51:38there are times where I'm like ah, you
51:40know, if I if I did move,
51:43there's that doubt. There's that like h
51:45I know what I'm leaving on the table.
51:46It's it there's a still a pull over
51:48there. At the end of the day though, I'm
51:49like, okay, what do I what do I value?
51:51And it's like I realized like the how
51:53lucky I am on the on the social side of
51:55things and like my friend group and my
51:57community that I've built there and I'm
51:58like I
51:59>> Yeah,
51:59>> I'm I'm choosing that. Yeah,
52:00>> I feel like this is very much a
52:02post-pandemic
52:04thing for a lot of people. like remote
52:05work has become so common now. Props for
52:08making that decision because just in my
52:10life like I have so many f everywhere
52:13I've lived in the last 6 years it feels
52:15like half of my friends leave within 3
52:17or 4 years because everybody's just like
52:20constantly finding a quote unquote
52:22better place to go. It's really
52:24complicated
52:26building community, building long-term
52:28friendships. I've been one of these
52:29people too. Like I have sat with groups
52:31of friends and we have literally spent
52:33an entire afternoon just trying to
52:35figure out where we should live. And it
52:38it's it's funny because that is a quote
52:40unquote problem that didn't even exist a
52:43generation ago. Like like my parents
52:45never never it never occurred to them
52:48like should we pick up and move to
52:50another city with the kids. Like never
52:52occurred to them because my dad's
52:54business was always in in Austin. And
52:56again, there's like a freedom and luxury
52:59of not having to make that decision, of
53:01not having that optionality that I think
53:04our generation because we have the
53:06optionality, we now are blessed with the
53:08anxiety of always wondering if we made
53:11the right decision.
53:12>> For a lot of people, too, if you're if
53:14you are considering, you're like, "Oh, I
53:15just need a new new city, a new
53:17whatever." I'm like, really think about
53:19that one. Really, really think about
53:20that one. If you can't be happy where
53:22you are, outside of like if you're in
53:23like, I don't know, a war torn area or,
53:25you know, abusive uh relationship that
53:27you need to get away from, obviously get
53:29out of that. Otherwise, if you're just
53:31like, "Oh, I don't know. I don't I don't
53:32like this place. I'm not sure about that
53:34one."
53:34>> One of the things that I kind of landed
53:36on
53:38with with my wife and I as we've kind of
53:41agonized over this question at different
53:42times over the last 10 years is I've
53:44arrived on the heristic of like there
53:46needs to be a better reason than
53:47happiness to leave, right? We can't just
53:51go because it's like, oh well this city
53:52sounds better. We have more things to do
53:54there, right? Like it there needs to be
53:56something coming back to that value
53:58alignment and that self- concordance
53:59like there needs to be something deeper
54:01and more aligned than just like this
54:04will be more fun. So because the ethical
54:06life like you are making commitments
54:08making decisions openeyed like major
54:11life decisions with both of your eyes
54:13open understanding the trade-offs that
54:14you're making you are choosing to
54:17eliminate possible lives and possible
54:20versions of yourself. You are also in
54:22some cases you are choosing to let go
54:24old versions of your life and old
54:26versions of yourself. What doesn't get
54:28talked about nearly enough is that there
54:30is a component of grief and and sadness
54:33that comes with this, right? Like it is
54:35losing a version of yourself and and
54:37accepting that like that version of you
54:39is never going to exist. It's really
54:40hard. It's like letting a friendship go
54:42or or letting go of a a place that has a
54:46lot of sentimental value for you. Change
54:48gets marketed as this kind of pep rally
54:51like rah rah, you're awesome. Yeah. It's
54:54it's it's going to be this euphoric
54:56epiphany. And the reality is that change
54:58often requires you to cut off possible
55:02versions of yourself that are going to
55:04be incredibly difficult and and painful
55:06to cut off. And so there is a a grieving
55:09process that comes with that elimination
55:12of a a part of yourself. And I think
55:14it's important for people to give
55:15themselves space to grieve that version
55:17of themselves, to grieve that life that
55:20they are leaving behind that they're not
55:22going to be able to go back to. I felt
55:24this a lot actually when I stopped being
55:25a nomad. I didn't want to go back, but
55:27like I still grieved
55:30losing that lifestyle and knowing that
55:32like I'm never going to be 20 and like
55:36traveling around Asia for the first time
55:37again. That experience is is gone
55:39forever. I'm never going to feel it
55:41again. And and it is sad. It is hard.
55:44It's hard when you put it that way. It
55:46is like it is hard to sit with. And so
55:48people avoid sitting with it. Would it
55:49be even sadder to keep trying to relive
55:52that though? I think that's maybe a
55:54Kirkard's point, right? About the ae and
55:57>> I I Yeah, I I I would say yes.
55:59>> Yeah, because you're you're going to
56:01realize that you can't relive it and
56:02then you just keep doing that to
56:04yourself over and over again.
56:05>> That's why says that the estate lives in
56:08despair. Even though they're having fun,
56:11even though they're partying, even
56:12though their Instagram is really, really
56:14sexy,
56:16they are living in despair. It's all
56:18Kasanova had left too was to write about
56:20the past and try to relive it. And God,
56:22that's sad. Yeah. What we've learned
56:24this chapter is that commitment delivers
56:26a sense of meaning and a sense of self.
56:29Even if your decision is not the optimal
56:31decision, the psychological immune
56:33system will kick in and it will help you
56:35sit more comfortably with whatever
56:37decision that you made. And the regret
56:38research shows that it is far more
56:40difficult for us to accept the things we
56:42didn't do more than the things that we
56:44did do. Now, these initial decisions,
56:47they kind of get that feedback loop
56:49kicked off, right? It's like, okay, I'm
56:51going to make a decision. I'm going to
56:52learn something about myself. Whatever I
56:55learn about myself, it's going to make
56:56it easier to make further decisions and
56:59further commitments in my life, which
57:01then is going to teach me more about
57:03myself, and then it's going to be easier
57:04and so on. As you start to get deeper
57:07into this feedback loop, that's where
57:10your identity starts to take shape. you
57:12have cut off enough alternatives in your
57:15life to start to see a kind of an
57:17outline of who you are, what you care
57:20about, what you're dedicating yourself
57:23to. A big piece of these decisions and
57:25commitments is is making sure that they
57:27feel aligned with each other and aligned
57:30with your values, that they're in
57:32concordance to give that self
57:35definition. You know, we did an ego
57:37episode ages ago uh where we talked
57:39about that the goal is not to eliminate
57:41the ego. It's to develop a healthy ego.
57:43And part of a healthy ego is a
57:45internally consistent ego, an ego
57:48without contradiction within it. But as
57:50you go, as you make deeper and deeper
57:52commitments in your life, you'll be
57:53cutting off larger and larger
57:55alternative selves. You'll be cutting
57:56off larger past selves that you'll have
57:59to grieve and accept that you'll never
58:02get to live those lives. you'll never
58:03get to go back and be the 25-year-old
58:07again. And you have to come to terms
58:10with that. But if the grief is real,
58:12that means you did something right.
58:14Because paradoxically, the more you make
58:17these commitments, the more you narrow
58:20your self- definitionf, the more you
58:22actually experience it as a liberation.
58:24A liberation to care about the thing
58:27that you actually want to be in this
58:29life. And Kira Kagard was such a
58:32melancholy and emo dude. He never framed
58:36this around happiness or well-being.
58:38That's a very 20th century
58:41concern. He always framed it around
58:43finding a real self, defining a real
58:45self for yourself, which honestly 50
58:48years before Freud, like that's a pretty
58:50radical
58:51goal to set set about for yourself.
58:54Having that strong self- definitionf,
58:55having that clear path for yourself,
59:00having that coherent narrative of both
59:03your past selves and your future selves.
59:05This is really the basis of being a
59:07psychologically healthy individual,
59:09being being somebody who is thriving and
59:11flourishing and feeling as though they
59:13are getting the most out of life. So
59:14everything we've talked about in this
59:16chapter has been about choosing well
59:19exploring your options, closing doors,
59:22letting your psychological machinery
59:24kind of do its work, building an
59:26identity, becoming satisfied with that
59:28identity, learning more about who you
59:29are so you can make further commitments.
59:31Now all of that is real and it's
59:32important, but for Kieragard that still
59:36wasn't enough. Like there's a whole
59:38another level to this that these kind of
59:40rational
59:42openeyed decisions still weren't really
59:45approaching or getting at because
59:47ultimately the ethical person is they're
59:49still choosing even if they've made a
59:51commitment. They're maintaining that
59:53commitment. They're re-uping their
59:55commitment. They're doubling down. Some
59:58cases they're backing out of commitments
1:00:00or changing commitments.
1:00:02They're sure they walk through a door
1:00:04and shut it, but they're kind of holding
1:00:06it shut and they're not sure if they
1:00:09maybe want to open it again. Kirkagard
1:00:11argued that there is a level of
1:00:12commitment that that effort disappears.
1:00:15That necessity of doubling down and
1:00:18re-upping commitments and re-choosing
1:00:20commitments that it does eventually go
1:00:23away, but it only goes away in these
1:00:25very special circumstances. And
1:00:28Kirkagard spent pretty much the final
1:00:30years of his life trying to explain how
1:00:32this happens. And what's interesting is
1:00:34that he couldn't explain how it happens
1:00:35without talking about it in religious
1:00:38terms. So next chapter we're going to
1:00:40get into the religious life.
1:00:44[music]
1:00:46What's up everybody? Thank you for
1:00:48watching. This video is just one chapter
1:00:50of a much larger podcast episode about
1:00:52commitment and finding your life path,
1:00:54where Drew and I cover everything from
1:00:56why dating apps are quietly wrecking
1:00:58your ability to commit to how Kasanova
1:01:00died miserable and alone to the grief
1:01:02that nobody warns you about when you
1:01:04finally choose one life over all the
1:01:06others. And why committing to the wrong
1:01:08thing still beats committing to nothing
1:01:10at all. You can find the other chapters
1:01:12here on YouTube, but if you want to
1:01:13watch or listen to the full episode,
1:01:14click on the link in the description to
1:01:16watch the whole thing on Spotify. And if
1:01:18you want to work on the topic at your
1:01:19own pace, we have a free PDF guide with
1:01:21all the resources, citations, and
1:01:23exercises at solve podcast.com/comit.
1:01:27See you in the next one.

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of How to Be Happy With Any Choice You Make by Mark Manson, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 12,580 words across 1,799 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

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