HOW TO AVOID DEPT AND LIVE A PEACEFUL LIFE || ZAC POONEN — Transcript

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1. 0:00avoid debt. I am so immensely thankful
2. 0:04to God that I had a wife who was willing
3. 0:07to live extremely simply when we had
4. 0:11very little. That was the only reason
5. 0:15why I've never been in debt in all our
6. 0:17years of marriage or my whole life which
7. 0:20was easy in my single days but not never
8. 0:23been in debt or anything. I see if I
9. 0:25can't afford it, we don't buy it.
10. 0:29I never believed in buy now and pay
11. 0:31later. No.
12. 0:34That's why I say if you use a credit
13. 0:36card, please be extremely careful. Do
14. 0:38you know the number of people who have
15. 0:40ruined their lives with credit card
16. 0:42debt? Bye bye by bye bye and then no end
17. 0:47to that buying. Then how shall we pay
18. 0:49all this money?
19. 0:51It's not worth it. Why not live a little
20. 0:53more simply? We lived simply. We didn't
21. 0:55buy new clothes. We bought only what is
22. 0:57absolutely necessary for our home. Don't
23. 1:00make money your goal.
24. 1:04Make if God gives you money, fine. And
25. 1:07many of you, you think you have very
26. 1:09little.
27. 1:11I'll tell you what the devil will do.
28. 1:13Listen to me. It's the devil's standard
29. 1:15tactic. He will always make you look at
30. 1:20people who have more than you
31. 1:23because that's the way he'll make you
32. 1:24unhappy.
33. 1:26Do you think the devil will ever make
34. 1:28you look at people who have less than
35. 1:29you? Never. Because then you'll be
36. 1:32happy. He doesn't want you happy.
37. 1:36I remember once one couple came here
38. 1:38many years ago it was to see me and they
39. 1:41were talking about oh brother we have so
40. 1:43little and we are struggling. I said you
41. 1:45know there's a slum down here about a
42. 1:47mile away. I want you to just have a
43. 1:48walk down there and come back and then
44. 1:50talk to me.
45. 1:52You know what the cure was there? walk
46. 1:54through that slum, see all those married
47. 1:56couples living there and come back to
48. 1:58me. Okay, you got any problems? No, no
49. 2:00problems.
50. 2:01No counseling, nothing. They just had to
51. 2:03walk through the slum. That's all.
52. 2:06The devil will always make you look you
53. 2:09can earn 50,000, 80,000 rupees a month,
54. 2:13a 100,000 rupees a month and you won't
55. 2:15be happy because God, the devil will
56. 2:18show you somebody who's getting 150,000
57. 2:20rupees a month. He won't show you that
58. 2:23person who's earning 20,000 a month
59. 2:25because you'll be fantastically happy
60. 2:27then and the devil doesn't want you to
61. 2:28be happy. This is how it is with money.
62. 2:32You know, let me get what they have. You
63. 2:35go somewhere, you say, "Ah, I I I want
64. 2:38to get that for my house. If it's useful
65. 2:39for the house, get it. And if you can
66. 2:41afford it, otherwise don't get it."
67. 2:44Just like women look at a sari, say,
68. 2:46"Wow, I wish I could get that sari." and
69. 2:48they pester their husband for the next
70. 2:50so many months to get that type of sari
71. 2:52whether they have money or not. You must
72. 2:55know how much money you have in your
73. 2:56home. And don't unnecessarily buy
74. 2:59things. And I tell you, this credit card
75. 3:02has destroyed so many Christian homes
76. 3:05and Christian ministries because you
77. 3:07become in come into debt. You cannot
78. 3:09have an anointing. I don't believe God
79. 3:12ever anoints a person who's in debt. And
80. 3:14I believe that is the number one reason
81. 3:16that many many of you do not have a
82. 3:18richer anointing. I don't know about
83. 3:20your finances, but it's possible you're
84. 3:22carelessly using your credit cards.
85. 3:25It could be one reason. I'll tell you
86. 3:26why. Because God spoke to me.
87. 3:30I know that in some situations you need
88. 3:32a credit card. But my boys, for example,
89. 3:34they live in the United States.
90. 3:37In many situations in America, you need
91. 3:40a credit card whether you like it or
92. 3:41not. I decided never to have one. I
93. 3:42don't need one here in India. So, I've
94. 3:44always lived with a debit card. But
95. 3:46sometimes you need it. There are certain
96. 3:48situations where you cannot do it for
97. 3:50example you get airline tickets and so
98. 3:52many things you have to have a credit
99. 3:53card otherwise you can't do it some
100. 3:55airlines will accept a debit card most
101. 3:57of them don't so um I saw this verse you
102. 4:02must owe no man anything I told my boys
103. 4:05listen okay you have to have a credit
104. 4:07card because certain situations in the
105. 4:09US like if you rent a car or something
106. 4:10they'll never give you a car on a debit
107. 4:12card it has to be on a credit card okay
108. 4:16if a single single month
109. 4:20goes by
110. 4:21in your life without paying that credit
111. 4:24card bill, that shows you're unfit to
112. 4:26have a credit card.
113. 4:29That's the test I gave them.
114. 4:31One month went by and you didn't pay
115. 4:33that credit card bill.
116. 4:36You're unfit. Either throw it away or
117. 4:41make sure that doesn't happen again.
118. 4:47And I believe all four of my boys are
119. 4:50without debt at all.
120. 4:54And that is a very strange thing for 99%
121. 4:56of people in America. Do you know that?
122. 5:00That's because most Christians don't
123. 5:01teach that it's a sin to be in debt. Is
124. 5:05it a sin to have sex with somebody
125. 5:06else's wife? Oh yes, of course. I'll
126. 5:08tell you it's equally a sin to be in
127. 5:09debt.
128. 5:11See what it says there. Romans chapter
129. 5:1313
130. 5:16verse 9.
131. 5:18You shall not murder.
132. 5:21You shall not commit adultery.
133. 5:24You shall not steal.
134. 5:26Verse eight.
135. 5:29You shall not be in debt.
136. 5:32And what's the difference?
137. 5:34It's all lumped together.
138. 5:37Don't commit adultery. Don't murder.
139. 5:40Don't steal. and don't owe anybody
140. 5:42anything.
141. 5:44Can it be clearer than that?
142. 5:48What would you think if you kept on
143. 5:49committing adultery every month with
144. 5:50somebody? Yeah, it's only once a month
145. 5:54or worse than that, you just murder one
146. 5:56one fellow every month.
147. 5:59You know it says in that previous verse
148. 6:00don't don't be in fact that comes before
149. 6:02these verses. Don't owe anybody
150. 6:04anything. Take it seriously. That's why
151. 6:07the only way to do it is husband and
152. 6:09wife must work together and recognize
153. 6:11what can we afford.
154. 6:13I want to live within that amount.
155. 6:16What can we afford?
156. 6:20And I tell you God will bless you. I am
157. 6:24so thankful. You know the advantage of
158. 6:26it is that our children saw
159. 6:30how we would struggle
160. 6:33and even when we were living here in
161. 6:35Bangalore even after the church started
162. 6:39I said I want to prove that it's
163. 6:40possible to live within our income
164. 6:44let me tell you some of the things we
165. 6:45used to do.
166. 6:47We could not afford to buy rice
167. 6:50from the market.
168. 6:54So my wife and I would stand one hour in
169. 6:57the ration queue out there on Hachins
170. 6:59Road
171. 7:01to get rationed rice which is cheaper.
172. 7:03It's not so good quality. We had to
173. 7:05clean out a lot more stones etc. We'd
174. 7:08stand in the ration queue I remember so
175. 7:11many years to get sugar because we
176. 7:14couldn't afford to buy it. We were not
177. 7:17the rich guy who could just throw around
178. 7:18and get whatever we want.
179. 7:20I say God God could have made us
180. 7:23millionaires but he didn't. He taught us
181. 7:25taught us to be disciplined. He taught
182. 7:27us to ask tested us to see what would we
183. 7:31do when we have little.
184. 7:34God never gives a man a ministry without
185. 7:36testing him.
186. 7:38My wife would stand there in the ration
187. 7:40queue to get kerosene
188. 7:43because gas was too expensive for us.
189. 7:46We'd cook on a kerosene stove. This is
190. 7:48when we had children at home right in
191. 7:50this house.
192. 7:52Then we'd stand in the queue to get
193. 7:54kerosene. We'd stand in the queue to get
194. 7:55this because it was cheaper in the
195. 7:57ration shop.
196. 7:59And we wouldn't travel if we couldn't
197. 8:02afford it. And we uh even when my mom
198. 8:05had a car, it was lying in our house. I
199. 8:07hardly ever used it. I hardly ever used
200. 8:09it because I couldn't afford the petrol
201. 8:10cost. It was lying there once in a
202. 8:13while. Had to take the children out once
203. 8:15in a while. And that's why I think I did
204. 8:18about when I finally sold it after 25
205. 8:21years, the average was about 600
206. 8:24kilometers in a year.
207. 8:27I drove it 50 km a month because I
208. 8:30couldn't afford it. I said, I don't want
209. 8:31to get into debt.
210. 8:34I say scooter is good enough. I say I
211. 8:36and if my wife and children would go on
212. 8:39a scooter or make two trips
213. 8:43determined I will not get into debt. I'm
214. 8:46not going to buy something I can't
215. 8:47afford.
216. 8:49We'd never buy new clothes for the
217. 8:51children on their birthdays. We couldn't
218. 8:52afford it. We'd buy new clothes for them
219. 8:55and the old clothes wore out whether it
220. 8:56was birthday or not birthday. I said let
221. 8:58the rich people do what they like. We're
222. 9:01not in that category.
223. 9:03We would take when they were in
224. 9:05kindergarten, we take a pencil and cut
225. 9:07it into two and say, "Use the small
226. 9:08pencil in kindergarten because you may
227. 9:10lose it. We can't afford to keep buying
228. 9:12new pencils." Little children lose
229. 9:14pencils. We'd cut a eraser into two. You
230. 9:17may think we're stupid, crazy. You know
231. 9:19what the result? 72 years without debt
232. 9:22of one rupee. I'd like you to beat that
233. 9:24record. You may think I'm crazy for
234. 9:27cutting pencils into two and erasers
235. 9:29into two. All these fellows who spend
236. 9:30lavishly, just see how much debt they
237. 9:32are in. does see how much unhappiness
238. 9:33there is in their homes. Which do you
239. 9:35prefer?
240. 9:39Little little things. We would not buy
241. 9:41fish. Too expensive.
242. 9:44You don't need fish. You can live
243. 9:45without fish.
244. 9:48I'm not talking about today. Today we
245. 9:49God has given us enough. Our children
246. 9:51are well off. We have plenty. But those
247. 9:53were the days when our children were in
248. 9:54school and to pay the fees and so many
249. 9:57things. We would not buy anything we
250. 9:59could not afford. We never went out to a
251. 10:01restaurant. Even ice cream was a once in
252. 10:04a- month luxury.
253. 10:06Why? Not because we were misers.
254. 10:10Even those days, I never took a scent
255. 10:12from the church. I've never taken a
256. 10:14scent from this church in 37 years. I'm
257. 10:17not going to be a paid worker. But I was
258. 10:19not going to be in debt and I was not
259. 10:21going to be dependent on another person.
260. 10:23I'm not going to send reports and get
261. 10:25money from people. No.
262. 10:28But boy,
263. 10:30what a lot of lessons we learned from
264. 10:32it. And what a lot of lessons our
265. 10:35children learned from it.
266. 10:38And they have learned the value of
267. 10:41taking care of things. Get your shoe
268. 10:45resold. If there are holes in the bottom
269. 10:47of the shoe, don't throw it away. There
270. 10:49are cobblers here. You can get it resold
271. 10:51and use it again. Use it again. Little
272. 10:53little things, you know, we can be
273. 10:54careful.
274. 10:57Yeah.
275. 10:58>> [clears throat]
276. 10:58>> If you're careful with things like this,
277. 11:01I was the most thing I was most eager
278. 11:04about. I'll tell you honestly, it's the
279. 11:06same today. Lord, I do not want to lose
280. 11:10the anointing of the Holy Spirit
281. 11:13at any cost. Give me an anointing so
282. 11:16that I can build your church. Tell me
283. 11:18the price for it. And the Lord said, "Be
284. 11:22faithful with money."
285. 11:26And he gave that verse to me from Luke
286. 11:2816.
287. 11:32If you are not faithful with unrighteous
288. 11:34money, Luke 16:1,
289. 11:38God will not give you the true riches.
290. 11:40Luke 16:11.
291. 11:42If you're not faithful, let me
292. 11:43paraphrase it. If you're not faithful
293. 11:45with money in your house,
294. 11:48God will not give you the anointing of
295. 11:50the Holy Spirit.
296. 11:53No, you're careless with money. You
297. 11:56think you got And I'll tell you the
298. 11:58other thing. The great danger is when
299. 11:59you have plenty. This is the other
300. 12:02extreme. Oh, I'm not in debt.
301. 12:06But you have money just because you got
302. 12:09plenty. You can go and splash it around
303. 12:13going regularly to restaurants and
304. 12:15wasting that money which you could have
305. 12:17used for some poor people in the
306. 12:18villages in Tamil Nad. Why should I give
307. 12:20to the poor villages of Tamil Nad? Let
308. 12:22me go and spend hundreds of rupees and
309. 12:23have a grand dinner in this restaurant
310. 12:25today and the other restaurant tomorrow
311. 12:27and the other. We don't do it even
312. 12:29today.
313. 12:31You may think we're skimping on this,
314. 12:33skimping on that. Say what you like. In
315. 12:36the day when God opens the record books,
316. 12:41let's see what the final record is like.
317. 12:45I can see it already today in the lack
318. 12:48of anointing there is in so many people
319. 12:51who could have been mighty servants of
320. 12:53God in many of our churches. I don't
321. 12:56know their private life but I can say
322. 12:57they are not faithful with money. That's
323. 13:00why God does not commit the true riches
324. 13:02to them. He doesn't the revelation of
325. 13:04God's word. Do you know what all
326. 13:05revelations God has given me in his
327. 13:07word? True riches. God said be faithful
328. 13:10with money. You were faithful when you
329. 13:12had little. Now be faithful when you
330. 13:14have much.
331. 13:16I said, Lord, help me.
332. 13:19I don't want to buy things just because
333. 13:21I got money.
334. 13:23Dear brothers, there's a word here for
335. 13:25everyone who wants to have a happy
336. 13:26marriage. [snorts]
337. 13:28And if you find if you find your husband
338. 13:30extravagant,
339. 13:32you know what these people who ride
340. 13:33horses do with the rains,
341. 13:37give a little pull. If you find your
342. 13:39wife extravagant, give a little pull.
343. 13:43You must help one another. Money is a
344. 13:45very very important area.
345. 13:48The people who have little get into debt
346. 13:50and the people who much splash it around
347. 13:52thinking that this is my hard earned
348. 13:54hardearned money. One of the first
349. 13:56things God taught me when I was in the
350. 13:58Navy was it is not your hard-earned
351. 14:00money.
352. 14:02It is what I gave you as a salary as a
353. 14:04gift. Take it. Thank you, Lord. I
354. 14:06learned that lesson 50 years ago when I
355. 14:09was working.
356. 14:12Learn it. You may all be getting
357. 14:14fantastic salaries,
358. 14:16but I tell you, I don't envy you
359. 14:20who can splash around money which I
360. 14:22could not do at your age. I feel sorry
361. 14:25for you. You'll have your grand
362. 14:27restaurant meals, but you won't have the
363. 14:30anointing.
364. 14:33You'll have your grand vacations,
365. 14:36endless money splashed around here and
366. 14:38there, but you won't have revelation on
367. 14:40God's word. You can have your choice. I
368. 14:43made my choice and I don't regret it. I
369. 14:47feel sorry that God has got so few
370. 14:49prophets in India because they are so
371. 14:51careless with money. I have longed and
372. 14:53longed for 37 years to see prophets rise
373. 14:57up in all of our CFC churches. I see a
374. 15:01few one, two, three, four like that.
375. 15:05There should be many more.
376. 15:09God has not united you in marriage
377. 15:12just to keep each other happy, but to
378. 15:15build his church. Be faithful. And don't
379. 15:19complain when your husband can't buy
380. 15:22something.
381. 15:23Live simply.
382. 15:25Help the poor. Don't splash it all on
383. 15:28yourself. God will reward you
384. 15:31abundantly. I'll give you one verse on
385. 15:32that. Psalm
386. 15:3541.
387. 15:42Psalm 41. [clears throat]
388. 15:50How blessed
389. 15:52is he who considers the helpless, the
390. 15:55poor,
391. 15:57The Lord will deliver him in a day of
392. 15:59trouble. Do you know how many days of
393. 16:01trouble the Lord has delivered me from?
394. 16:02I cannot number it. The Lord will
395. 16:05protect him and keep him alive. He has
396. 16:07protected me in numerous places. He'll
397. 16:10be called blessed on the earth. He will
398. 16:12not give him over to the desire of his
399. 16:14enemies. I've had numerous enemies
400. 16:16because I stand up for the Lord. The
401. 16:18Lord has never given me over to their
402. 16:21desire.
403. 16:23The Lord will sustain him upon his sick
404. 16:25bed in his illness.
405. 16:28He will restore him to health. I cannot
406. 16:30tell you the number of times I've been
407. 16:32sick and up the next morning healed.
408. 16:36Otherwise, I would not have been able to
409. 16:38serve the Lord all these 46 years.
410. 16:42By the grace of God,
411. 16:45I've never missed a meeting in 46 years
412. 16:48due to sickness. It's not something to
413. 16:50glory in. Well, my wife has had a part
414. 16:53in it to keep me healthy, but God has
415. 16:57taken care of me. That's all. I give the
416. 16:58glory entirely to God.
417. 17:02I say to you, my brothers and sisters,
418. 17:05care for the poor.
419. 17:08That is why I went mostly to the
420. 17:10villages in Tamil Nad for so many years.
421. 17:15Used to break my back sitting in 16
422. 17:17hours in those bumpy buses to these
423. 17:19conferences. But I see the result today.
424. 17:22Well worth it.
425. 17:26And I haven't broken down because of
426. 17:30that. God's given me health to still.
427. 17:34So don't take care of yourself. Take
428. 17:37care of the Lord and his work. And put
429. 17:40it first. You will never regret in this
430. 17:44earth or in eternity.
431. 17:46May you all have
432. 17:48a marriage that goes on happily forever
433. 17:52and ever.
434. 17:54Amen. They lived happily ever after.
435. 17:56Okay.
436. 17:57It's not a fairy tale ending. It's a
437. 18:00real Christian marriage the way it
438. 18:01should be. Let's pray. Let's bow our
439. 18:03heads.
440. 18:07Heavenly Father,
441. 18:09thank you for a wonderful time you gave
442. 18:11us this afternoon and for these
443. 18:14wonderful young married couples
444. 18:16beginning a journey in life which can
445. 18:20become glorious or disastrous.
446. 18:23Help them to obey the manufacturer's
447. 18:25instructions.
448. 18:27Help them to obey down to the last
449. 18:29detail, to be humble enough to
450. 18:31acknowledge that they don't know the
451. 18:33rules as well as you do. Bless them and
452. 18:37lead them on. Lord, we commit them to
453. 18:40you. Each one here, I believe there's
454. 18:42tremendous potential here which the
455. 18:44devil sees
456. 18:46and which he wants to destroy their
457. 18:48lives and which you see and you want for
458. 18:52yourself.
459. 18:53Help them not to be overwhelmed
460. 18:56with what they heard today, but to
461. 18:59recognize that step by step, little by
462. 19:01little, through many mistakes, like a
463. 19:03child learning to walk, falling down,
464. 19:05getting up, falling down, getting up,
465. 19:06they can also learn. For I know, Lord,
466. 19:09it was through many falls that I slowly
467. 19:11learned and I'm still learning. Help us
468. 19:14all. We pray in Jesus name. Amen.