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How This Astronaut Survived Going Blind In Space & Tools for Crushing Fear with Chris Hadfield — Transcript

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0:00[Applause]
0:03welcome to the science of success
0:06introducing closest match partner
0:11welcome to the science of success the
0:14number one evidence-based growth podcast
0:16on the internet with more than a million
0:18downloads and listeners in over a
0:20hundred countries in this episode we
0:23discuss what happened when our guest
0:25astronaut Chris Hadfield went blind
0:28during a spacewalk and how he made it
0:31out alive
0:32we talked about the mental toughness
0:34necessary to survive extremely dangerous
0:37situations just like that we discussed
0:40in depth how astronauts deal with fear
0:42we look at the vital importance of
0:44powerful training to deal with huge
0:46risks and much more with Chris Hadfield
0:50I'm gonna give you three reasons why you
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1:54word smarter that's Smar ter to the
1:57number four four two two two again
2:00that's smarter two four four two two two
2:02in our previous episode we discussed how
2:05a neurologists perspective on your brain
2:08fundamentally ignores the health of the
2:10entire system we talked about your gut
2:12biomes role in depression mood
2:14regulation and how the microbiome
2:15controls your behavior and emotions we
2:19asks why it is so hard for people to
2:21break negative eating habits looked at
2:23the biochemistry of addiction discuss
2:25the incredible importance of
2:27understanding your microbiome and gut
2:29health and much more with dr. Cole Reed
2:31Chowdhury if you want to get the
2:34neuroscience behind your gut and your
2:36microbiome listen to that episode
2:39now for the interview and I want to make
2:42a quick note before we dive in Chris had
2:44to dial in via phone so the audio
2:46quality on this episode is a little bit
2:48rougher than some of our typical
2:49interviews remember we're interviewing
2:51experts across the world people in many
2:54different industries and in many cases
2:55you know astronauts like Chris are not
2:57professional podcasters they don't have
2:59a professional recording setup we do the
3:01best we can to try and deliver the
3:03highest quality audio possible but I
3:05just wanted to give you a heads up that
3:06the audio quality on this interview is
3:08not the best that we've done but at the
3:10conversations amazing I know you're
3:12gonna get a ton out of it so let's dive
3:14right in today we have another
3:16incredible guest on the show
3:18astronaut Chris Hadfield Chris who the
3:21BBC called the most famous astronaut
3:23since Neil Armstrong has been part of
3:25several space missions with the Canadian
3:27Space Agency and NASA he served as the
3:29chief of robotics and the chief of
3:31International Space Station operations
3:32Chris was the first Canadian to command
3:35the International Space Station and was
3:37awarded the NASA exceptional service
3:39medal and inducted to the Canadian
3:40Aviation Hall of Fame in addition his
3:43work as an engineer and astronaut chris
3:44is an author musician and speaker Chris
3:47welcome to the science of success and
3:50thanks Matt it's really nice to be
3:51joining you and that that's almost
3:53embarrassing to listen to all of that
3:54introduction but thanks for mentioning
3:55everything well you've had quite a
3:57storied career and some really really
3:59fascinating experiences so I'd love to
4:02start out you know for listeners who may
4:04not be familiar with you and some of
4:05your background tell us what you know
4:07how did you become an astronaut and what
4:10were you doing before that well the
4:12simple question or I guess I answered
4:14your question is I decided to be an
4:16astronaut when I was a kid and I started
4:19trying to turn myself into one starting
4:21at like 10 years old and I really had no
4:24idea but I thought astronauts fly in
4:27space so I'm going to learn to fly
4:28astronauts have to know how to operate
4:30complex machinery so I'm going to become
4:33an engineer I noticed that a lot of
4:35astronauts traditionally at the
4:36beginning were test pilots so I thought
4:38I'm going to try and become a military
4:39test pilot and see if all that works or
4:42not and if it doesn't that's all still a
4:44bunch of interesting things to be a
4:45pilot and a test pilot an engineer and
4:48so that's the path I followed and I
4:51served 25 years in the Air Force
4:52and became a test pilot actually even
4:55serving with it with the Navy u.s. Navy
4:57is a as a test pilot and at the end of
5:00all that I even got a university degree
5:02in Tennessee effect but after all of
5:04that I got selected as an astronaut and
5:07then serve 21 years as an astronaut
5:09that's fascinating and both of those
5:11things you know how do you I know it's
5:14such a competitive and challenging field
5:16I mean even be just becoming a test
5:17pilot let alone becoming an astronaut
5:19what do you think enabled you to make
5:24your way through that incredibly
5:25difficult selection process three
5:28different things Matt I think let me get
5:30through all that number one was an
5:32unquenchable burning desire yeah I mean
5:34you really really have to want to do
5:36this just because there's so many dead
5:39ends and and obstacles and unlikely
5:41opportunities the second is a huge
5:44amount of work I love working I grew up
5:46on a farm I think work is interesting
5:49and productive and it gives me
5:51satisfaction so as I think in in a
5:54difference to an unquenchable desire is
5:56also a big appetite for hard work and
5:58then the third is luck I mean if I'd
6:00been born ten years prior I couldn't
6:03have been an astronaut you know it's
6:04just timing and you know health and
6:06circumstance and such there's always
6:09going to be some luck involved
6:10but I think if you have a burning desire
6:12you have a huge amount of ability to
6:15work at something and then accept that
6:17there's luck involved that's not a bad
6:19recipe for no matter what you're
6:20dreaming of doing you know one of the
6:21one of the most famous things that
6:25you're kind of known for is this
6:26infamous spacewalk that you talk about
6:29in your TED talk could you share that
6:31story with the audience sure I've done
6:33two spacewalks to help build things
6:36orbiting the Earth I helped build part
6:38of the International Space Station face
6:40walks are hard they take many many years
6:43of training development invention
6:45practice but even while they're
6:47happening they're physically very
6:49demanding and very technically
6:51complicated you know nothing like you
6:53see in the movies ever but stuff goes
6:55wrong during spacewalks all the time
6:58naturally we try and keep it safe
7:00because you're you're danger is very
7:02high and touchwood we've never lost an
7:04astronaut during a spacewalk to this
7:06point
7:06but we recognize the risk and the danger
7:09of them and during my first spacewalk
7:11there was contamination inside the suit
7:14that got into one of my eyes sort of
7:16stopped it from working so suddenly I
7:19couldn't see out of my left eye and I
7:21just kept working because I figured well
7:23maybe it'll clear but and I couldn't do
7:25anything about it anyway I couldn't rub
7:26my eye or anything it's stuck inside a
7:28helmet but my eye was irritated enough
7:31by the contamination it was tearing up
7:33and without gravity the tears don't go
7:35anywhere they just stay on your eye like
7:37this big ball of contaminated salt water
7:40and tear and eventually that ball of
7:43contamination got big enough that that
7:46unfortunately it bridged the size of my
7:48nose and flowed this little bubble of
7:50contaminated stuff floating in my other
7:52eye and contaminated my other eye so
7:54then both my eyes were were contaminated
7:56and I was blinded during my first
7:59spacewalk so that was a difficult thing
8:03to deal with being outside holding on to
8:06the outside of the ship suddenly unable
8:08to see and I think if we hadn't
8:11practiced if we've taken it lightly if
8:13we hadn't done all the work in advance
8:14that would have been crippling ly scary
8:17and unsolvable but I was outside with a
8:19guy named Scott Parazynski a classmate
8:21of mine really competent fella
8:23and we'd practiced for leaders and years
8:26and helped invent everything we were
8:28gonna do out there and and one of the
8:30things we had practiced is just in the
8:32category of if one of us it becomes
8:34unable for whatever reason you know you
8:36might have a loss of communication so
8:39your suit might short out with her you
8:41might lose oxygen or you might have a
8:43leak in your suit or whatever might have
8:44a heart attack who knows so we call that
8:47incapacitated crew rescue and so Scott
8:51and I had practiced that in fact it's
8:53one of the things you have to qualify at
8:54in order to be trusted to do a spacewalk
8:56so in this case I was I was
8:58incapacitated to some degree I could
9:01talk I could think I was still fine I
9:03could communicate with everybody I just
9:05couldn't see and without being able to
9:07see if you really can't do the job out
9:09there I talked to everybody and we ended
9:12up realizing that it might be something
9:14pretty serious contaminating my suit and
9:16so I opened up the purge valve in
9:19consultation with
9:20in control down at Houston opened up to
9:22purge valve on my suit to let the
9:24contaminated atmosphere around my head
9:26flush and squirt out into space and then
9:30tapping into my limited reserves of
9:32pressurized oxygen in the suit so
9:34listening to the oxygen hiss out of my
9:38suit alone out in the universe and the
9:41universe is kind of big to repressurize
9:43with one oxygen tank so I knew I was
9:45going to lose it that eventually but
9:47what it did was it brought enough fresh
9:50oxygen and therefore atmosphere into my
9:52suit that is it allowed the
9:54contamination to evaporate around my
9:56eyes and sort of build a crusty ring
9:58around my eyes and my eyes continued
10:01tearing but after a while the
10:03contamination got diluted enough that I
10:05could see again and could get back to
10:06work on my I stopped hearing and it
10:08turned out just to be the the anti-fog
10:11that we used on the visor sort of a
10:13mixture of oil and and harsh soap and
10:16it's as if someone had just squirted
10:18oily harsh soap into your eye your eye
10:20doesn't work anymore so nothing super
10:22technical just a thing but enough that
10:26it definitely up the danger and
10:28decreased our chances of success but we
10:31practiced and prepared enough that with
10:33a Mission Control allowed us to continue
10:35and finish the entire space lock
10:36actually got everything done and since
10:39then we changed the anti-fog solution
10:42that we use here in truth we use
10:45Johnson's no more tears now which we're
10:47probably what we should he use right
10:48from the get-go that little problem
10:50manifested itself into me being blind
10:52alone out of my very first spacewalk
10:55pretty interesting place to be and what
10:58goes through your mind and in that
10:59moment when you completely lose your
11:02vision and you and you're floating in
11:04outer space well in my case it was
11:07number one what caused it I'm thinking
11:10okay what can be causing what's the
11:12irritated - why am I struck blind by
11:14this so I mean I've studied all the
11:17stuff very carefully I know how all the
11:19systems in the suit work really well so
11:21trying to visualize through all of the
11:22schematics and chemistry and everything
11:24of what might be causing this problem -
11:26frustration because I'm not able to do
11:29the things that I'm therefore I'm
11:30supposed to be building this huge robot
11:32arm the Canada arm on
11:34the outside of the spaceship and and now
11:35I'm useless I'm just there hanging on
11:37wait for this problem to clear so kind
11:39of frustrated at this event and then
11:41three having to tell Houston because I
11:43know just what a grenade that's going to
11:46be admission control to me tell
11:48everybody down there I'm blind you know
11:50they're just have a real serious problem
11:52to try and give me good advice on so I'm
11:55just thinking about all those things but
11:57the real bottom line is am i okay or not
12:00and as soon as you established yourself
12:02that ok I'm breathing I'm fine the only
12:06thing is I can't see you know so so what
12:08if you close your eyes you can't see I
12:09mean it's just a matter of just
12:12something to deal with not a problem I
12:14wanted to deal with and hopefully
12:16nothing that's gonna strike me
12:17permanently blind but still just one
12:19sense out of five that I lost and let's
12:22let's try and solve the problem let's
12:24work the problem and get to the solution
12:26to that that's not going to worried and
12:28panicked and and overdramatic about the
12:31thing let's just let's deal with it and
12:32move on and how do you cultivate the
12:36mental toughness to be in such an
12:39incredibly high-stress situation and
12:42maintain that kind of calm presence of
12:45mind to be able to problem-solve and
12:47work your way through it that's why I
12:49asked NASA hires the astronauts that
12:51they do NASA is currently going through
12:52an astronaut selection and 18,000 people
12:56have applied for like eight or ten slots
12:59eight or ten positions so if you have
13:0218,000 people to choose from you don't
13:05just choose people that are fit or you
13:07don't just choose people that have a
13:09certain type of university degree you
13:11try and choose people that not only are
13:14fit and have a certain type of
13:15university degree but also have a proven
13:18ability to make good decisions under
13:21really complex and high stakes
13:23situations so who would you hire you
13:27hire test pilots because test pilots are
13:30used to balancing all of that stuff a
13:32very dangerous job test pilots are
13:35killed all the time because the job
13:37itself is dangerous but also have that
13:41learned and trained ability to deal with
13:44a huge number of factors simultaneously
13:46your fly in the airplane you
13:48testing something new you're dealing
13:49with unexpected circumstances and you
13:51still at the end of it have to somehow
13:52get home and land and or we hire medical
13:56doctors and not just run-of-the-mill
13:57medical doctors but as competent as
14:00possible or we hire people who have run
14:01large stage of life where not only do
14:04they have all the raw material but they
14:05have the proven ability to make good
14:07decisions when the consequences really
14:10truly matter and when you never have
14:11enough information you've shown that you
14:14are the type of person that could be
14:15trusted to make the right call and not
14:17just get all panicked and then that's
14:19that's how we do it the right type of
14:21people chosen and then years and years
14:23of training and preparation and study I
14:26was an astronaut for twenty-one years
14:28and I was only in space for six months
14:31so for twenty and a half years I was
14:34training and studying and preparing and
14:36helping to support and invent
14:38spaceflight and that's how you build it
14:40wow that ratio is it really demonstrates
14:43the point which which i think is vital
14:45that training and practice is so
14:48important talk to me a little bit more
14:50about that and how critical that is you
14:53know for somebody who's I'm trying to
14:54draw this back to almost an actionable
14:56insight for someone who's listening in
14:57how vital is training and how can people
15:00integrate that that lesson of how they
15:02can build toughness in their own lives
15:04well I think a lot of people just count
15:07on good looks and charm and you know and
15:09luck and such and if you if you do that
15:12that's fine sometimes it'll work and
15:13sometimes it won't and if the
15:15consequences are loathe and so what you
15:17know so big deal so this didn't work out
15:19but if the consequences of what you're
15:21trying to do are life and death and also
15:23immense financial consequence or if you
15:26get this wrong then you have wasted an
15:29entire shuttle flight or you've ruined a
15:31piece of equipment that costs a lot of
15:33people a lot of money so we take it
15:35immensely seriously and if that's the
15:39type of thing you're trying to
15:40accomplish then you don't just count on
15:41on random events you don't just count on
15:44luck you do ancient I urge aa your job
15:48is now to try do everything that is
15:52possible prior to this event happening
15:54so that you could optimize your chances
15:55of success and to do that you don't
15:57visualize success you visualize failure
16:01like in the book with my first book the
16:03astronauts guide to life on Earth well
16:05what I called the power of negative
16:06thinking there's not much point in just
16:09visualizing success because if it
16:12happens it's great if it doesn't and
16:13visualizing it didn't help
16:15visualizing failure serves you well what
16:18if this is what I'm trying to accomplish
16:20what is the most likely thing to go
16:22wrong and am I ready to face it and how
16:25do I know so let's practice that thing
16:27going wrong and see if I can deal with
16:29it and if I can't let's practice it
16:30again and again and again until okay if
16:32that thing goes wrong I now know how to
16:34deal with it and then let's move on to
16:36the next most probable thing to go wrong
16:38and let's practice that until we
16:40understand it and then the next thing
16:42and the next thing I don't know we
16:43practiced ten thousand different things
16:45and that's what astronauts do for a
16:48living you know visualize success they
16:51practice for failure all the time they
16:54live in a world of negative thinking
16:57because then when something's coming
16:59along like a spacewalk and suddenly
17:02you're struck blind you're like okay so
17:04what's really gone wrong here what am i
17:06dealing with what could it cause this
17:08what are the impacts what can I do next
17:11what did we practice what do we know
17:13about this you know and how can we
17:14improve it for the future it just
17:15changes what your role is you don't
17:18count on luck you count on your own
17:21learned and practiced ability to deal
17:24with the probable things that are going
17:25to go wrong and that applies to
17:27everything it applies to driving your
17:29car down the highway I mean eventually
17:31in your life that driving down a road
17:33you are going to have a tire go flat but
17:36how many times have you practiced it how
17:38many times if you actually looked at
17:40your model of car whether it's front
17:41wheel drive all wheel drive rear wheel
17:43drive what type of steering do you have
17:46what type of run-flat tires do you have
17:47you all that information you know in one
17:50minute you could look it up what is the
17:52right thing to do if you're going 60
17:54down the highway and your front left
17:55tire blows what should you do it's the
17:58thing that's going to happen sometime in
18:00your life and you can learn exactly what
18:02you're supposed to do in ten minutes on
18:04the internet and then the next time you
18:05drive in your car you can practice it 10
18:07times just say ok right now my front
18:10left you know on some empty stretch of
18:12road while you're just driving along
18:13anyway my friend
18:14tire just blew out okay what are my
18:16actions do I break do I not break do I
18:18downshift do I go into neutral what do i
18:21do do I go less cooler go right and just
18:23practice it and after you've done it
18:25looked it up and done it ten times then
18:28you just file that away inside yourself
18:30as okay this is one of the things I'm
18:32now ready for an astronaut's treat
18:35everything like that flat tire that's
18:38how we fly in space
18:39it's amazing that when you look across
18:42people who've been incredibly successful
18:44in various different disciplines you
18:45know I'm thinking about Charlie Munger
18:47Warren Buffett's business partner you
18:49know the co-chairman of Berkshire
18:51Hathaway the guy we talk about all the
18:53time on the show I'm thinking about
18:54people like the the ancient Stoics like
18:56they all have very very similar lessons
18:59which is this idea that it's not
19:01necessarily about focusing on and
19:03visualizing the things that can go right
19:05it's about figuring out the most
19:07probable things that can go wrong and
19:09planning and optimizing and building a
19:12strategy so that you can minimize those
19:13things yeah that's the only way that
19:18NASA has been successful in putting
19:21people that are up on the space station
19:22right now and and driving our probe
19:26through the plumes of Enceladus that are
19:27going around Saturn right now and you
19:30know flying up the long tube beyond
19:32Pluto and driving the probes around on
19:33Mars and all the stuff we're doing it is
19:36purely the result of setting ourselves a
19:39goal and then starting to visualize
19:42failure and then learning incrementally
19:44better and better how to get closer and
19:47closer to what it is we're dreaming of
19:48and not counting on on luck no astronaut
19:52launches for space with their fingers
19:54crossed that's not how we deal with risk
19:57that's just not an actual way to step up
20:01to something and anything worth doing in
20:03life the people that you just mentioned
20:05they have a set of goals and life things
20:07that they value things that they want to
20:08get done any of the choices that they
20:11make have risk whether it's personal
20:14reputational financial life-or-death
20:16anything worth doing in life has risk
20:18and then the real question is how are
20:21you changing who you are so that you
20:24have a better chance of succeeding when
20:26you face that particular risk that
20:28really the whole I don't know the whole
20:29recipe for success in spaceflight and
20:32really I think in anything worthwhile in
20:35life so that brings up a couple of
20:37points that I that I wanted to into one
20:38of them is the the relationship between
20:41the danger and fear and you know being
20:45somebody who's been a test pilot an
20:47astronaut I mean you've put yourself in
20:49some incredibly dangerous situations I
20:51guess by but by most people's
20:53estimations how do you view the
20:56interaction between those two things and
20:57are they the same you know people ask
21:00you all the time you know was launch
21:02scary or boy doing a spacewalk that must
21:05be scary and and I I became aware years
21:09and years ago as a test pilot and then
21:11as an astronaut that things aren't scary
21:13just people are scared and they're
21:16fundamentally different you know some
21:19people are afraid of whatever a mouse
21:22you know or and some people aren't
21:25some people are afraid of I don't know
21:27marriage and some people aren't some
21:30people are afraid of flying the thing
21:32doesn't change the mouse doesn't change
21:34whether you're afraid of it or not or
21:35the or the airplane or the idea of
21:37flight or whatever the real question is
21:40what are you prepared for and what are
21:43you unprepared for and if you're
21:46unprepared for something then really the
21:48only recourse that we have is to be
21:50afraid because fear causes physiological
21:53changes in your body when you are afraid
21:55your body changes you know you shiver or
21:58the blood drains from some part of your
22:01body or adrenaline gets released into
22:04your veins or your body recognizes that
22:07holy cow
22:08you know this guy isn't ready for the
22:10thing that's happening this this
22:12wildebeest that just jumped out of the
22:14woods at him he wasn't ready for that
22:16and so I need to change momentarily this
22:19person's physiology so that they could
22:22deal with it and we call that change of
22:23physiology fear because it allows us
22:27maybe for momentary period to be able to
22:30face up to a risk but you don't want to
22:33fly a spaceship just by using adrenaline
22:36in your veins it's harmful to your body
22:38but it also it's transient that's not
22:41exactly how we
22:42fly spaceships it's not relying on super
22:45quick muscle twitch and reaction it
22:47relies on complex reasoned practiced
22:51deep technical understanding of how to
22:53do things and you can draw the parallel
22:56to just about anything
22:57I don't know learning to use a
22:58skateboard first time you get on a
23:00skateboard you're useless at it and you
23:03fall and so you're kind of a little bit
23:05scared getting on a skateboard at first
23:07when you're a kid or even worse as an
23:09adult where you don't have the skills
23:10yet and you have a pretty good chance of
23:13falling and at least get in your knee if
23:15not breaking a leg or or busting a tooth
23:18or something because you are incompetent
23:21at it but if you spend the time and you
23:25turn your natural talent into a honed
23:27ability if you practice skateboarding
23:29until you can get on one you not even
23:32think about it and now you could start
23:33to do tricks and jumps and all the cool
23:35things that the good skateboarders can
23:37do you get to a point where it is no
23:40longer scary at all in fact it's just
23:43sort of a freedom it's a cool thing and
23:45the skateboard didn't change escape
23:48board is exactly the same the physics
23:50didn't change it's just you that changed
23:53and that's the difference between fear
23:55and danger
23:56things aren't scary just people are
24:00scared and the only reason you're scared
24:02is because you didn't do your homework
24:03you didn't practice you didn't get ready
24:06you're just trying to count on luck to
24:08carry you through this thing and it'll
24:10work for some things in life but I think
24:12that gives you them the choice of you
24:14can go through life afraid and one of
24:16our ways of describing perpetual fear is
24:19stress I mean try it and you could be
24:22overwhelmed by it but just pick off one
24:24thing at a time you know what is the
24:26thing that I don't know how to do that I
24:28wish I could that is causing me danger
24:30or causing me stress and let's try and
24:32get good at that thing today let's spend
24:34the next hour getting good at that thing
24:35so I don't longer have to be afraid of
24:37that and then let's go on to the next
24:39thing and the thing after that and the
24:41thing after that and that's how I
24:43trained as a pilot I used to go downhill
24:46ski racer as well the same thing and and
24:48that's how I trained as a test pilot and
24:50that is the absolute essence of training
24:53to fly in space mr. Ricky
24:55is a difference between danger and fear
24:57and then that use all the available time
25:00to be ready for the risk so that you
25:03optimize your chances of success what a
25:05great point I really really like that
25:08idea that that fear is essentially lack
25:10of preparation and if you prepare if you
25:13train enough it's possible to overcome
25:17any fear and really it in many ways fear
25:20the kind of logical conclusion of that
25:22is that fear is simply a signal telling
25:24you that you need to do more preparation
25:26yeah or don't do that thing like I'm
25:30afraid of heights just generically I
25:32think everybody should be afraid of
25:34heights because if you're in a position
25:36where you can fall without any control I
25:39mean you don't have to fall from much
25:40higher than your own standing height to
25:42do yourself damage you can crack your
25:44skull just by falling from your own
25:46standing height that's kind of the limit
25:48of how tall evolution has allowed our
25:50bodies to be because if you fall from
25:52any more of your own height you die so
25:54but if you're staying on the edge of a
25:56cliff and one tiny little random gust of
25:58wind or her lack of attention will kill
26:00you then your body should be screaming
26:03at you that this is not where you ought
26:05to be and either either anchor yourself
26:07to something or do something else but
26:10don't don't put yourself at risk you
26:12know if there's no benefit to what
26:14you're doing now if this is a thing you
26:16really want to do if there's some great
26:18benefit to it you know this is
26:19accomplishing some goal for you then
26:21then that's a different set of
26:23circumstances and you need to build all
26:24the skills you have so that you won't
26:25fall but the raw idea of fear is really
26:29just trying to protect you against
26:31against hurting yourself against ending
26:33your life unnecessarily so you should
26:35listen to fear but you should not keep
26:37fear from allowing you to dictate the
26:40constraints of your own life if you
26:41can't you should look hey this is
26:43important to me just because I'm afraid
26:45well the afraid part is just because I'm
26:46not good at this yet
26:47let's start gaining skills so I can do
26:49this thing that's important to me and
26:50not just spend my life being stressed
26:52and wringing my hands and crossing my
26:54fingers and being afraid
26:56I'm sure if you're listening to the show
26:58you're passionate about mastering new
27:01skills and abilities and that's why I'm
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28:21to redeem your free month so another
28:26example that you've shared around this
28:28is the idea of dealing with spiders or
28:30fear of spiders and walking through
28:32spider webs can you share that example
28:33what I was trying to explain to folks
28:36how is it that you can change your own
28:38threshold of fear one of the examples
28:40that occurred to me was spiders because
28:42a lot of people are afraid of spiders
28:44and there's a good reason for that of
28:46course in that some spiders are quite
28:48venomous the venom that they have has a
28:51really nasty negative effect and there
28:53are some that are you know that are
28:54really awful that that can cause it's a
28:57neurotoxin or or cause really bad damage
29:00to the human bodies and you know black
29:03widow has a certain reputation or a
29:05brown Ric
29:07or you know they've even got bad names
29:10but of course most spiders are fine
29:13almost every spider on earth is just a
29:16little bug you know and it's just being
29:17a spider and it it's terrified of you
29:19because you're a huge and Conscription
29:21at any moment and if you have no
29:24understanding of spiders at all then you
29:28could treat every single little thing in
29:30the corner of your eye that might turn
29:32out to be a spider as the most venomous
29:34spider that exists and some people do
29:37they treat every single little bug that
29:40they see as potential death and that's
29:44unreasonable of course
29:46because the odds of actually running
29:48into one of those spiders that does your
29:49harm is really low so rather than
29:51spending your life screaming and running
29:54every time you see us a bug why not say
29:57okay some spiders are bad for me but
30:00most aren't where I live how many
30:02spiders are actually poisonous or
30:04venomous how many actually do me harm
30:07and for a lot of the places in the world
30:10you'll find that the answer is none
30:11there are no spiders at all that exist
30:15in where you live that are venomous or
30:17maybe there's just one or two and and
30:19you can look up where they actually
30:21exist maybe they're only in a certain
30:23type of cave or a certain type of
30:25circumstances and maybe they're easily
30:27identifiable you know like a black widow
30:29has a great big red hourglass on its
30:32back it couldn't have a critical I got a
30:33ganger marking on it just to let you
30:35know and then say okay so now I know
30:39what the actual danger is if it's just
30:41any other type of spider I can treat it
30:43like a ladybug it's got the same threat
30:45to me as a ladybug but there's a couple
30:47spiders I have to watch out for or this
30:49type and what do their nests look like
30:51and I won't walk into one of those type
30:53of webs like that the small web like a
30:55Black Widow that they build close to the
30:58ground off in dark corners and then say
31:00okay so now I know what the risk is but
31:02I still had this fundamental sort of gut
31:05reaction my instinctive reaction of fear
31:09and every time I feel a spider web on my
31:12face you know walking in the dusk like
31:14oh you know I feel that same raw animal
31:16fear so then say to yourself but that
31:19can't be
31:20Spyder they don't build spiderwebs up
31:22here that can't be it so I'm just being
31:24silly but to overcome it what I
31:27recommend is walk through spider webs
31:29deliberately find a spider web that you
31:32know actually isn't a threat and walk
31:34through it and then find another one and
31:35walk through that go up to an attic
31:36where there's a whole bunch of spider
31:38webs that are obviously not any sort of
31:40threat and just walk through them get
31:42get over your primitive illogical
31:46instinctive fearful reaction and
31:49actually look into the information find
31:52out use our brain and figure it out and
31:54practice and practice and practice and
31:56after you walk through a hundred spider
31:58webs with no consequence then you can
32:02start to change your fundamental
32:03instinctive reaction you can start to
32:05control your own instinctive fear and
32:08now you can make your decisions based on
32:10reality and not just on on the same
32:13amount of intellect that a the simplest
32:16forms of life put into their
32:18decision-making so we treat everything
32:21like that in the space business how does
32:24a spider web actor how does this spider
32:26actually shape up as a threat what's the
32:28real threat what is the real threat look
32:30like how am I going to recognize the
32:32real threat from all the noise of the
32:33non threats so that I don't overreact
32:36because if you don't know what to be
32:38afraid of
32:39then you're afraid of everything and I
32:43don't think that's a useful way to go
32:44through life I just think it's
32:46self-destructive I love the example of
32:49forcing yourself to walk through spider
32:51webs and I wanted to hear that story
32:53because to me you know I personally am
32:55kind of afraid of spiders and so it was
32:56a very relevant story I almost
32:58instinctively hear and maybe this is
33:00just a lack of a lack of knowledge but I
33:02sort of instinctively hear myself saying
33:05like yeah that sounds like a great idea
33:06to go walk through some spider webs but
33:08like but what if and I think it's the
33:10what if that that always gets me and
33:12like makes me more fearful it's like
33:14what if that web that I happen to walk
33:16through happens to be a dangerous spider
33:19right so that's that's where your
33:21intellect comes into it that and
33:23actually look and do the work in advance
33:25don't just count on randomness I mean if
33:28you're afraid of Jaguars that doesn't
33:32mean you need to be afraid of
33:34kittens house cat kittens but they're
33:36both cats but you could spend your
33:39entire life terrified of kittens because
33:42you're also afraid of Jaguars but it
33:44doesn't make any sense and yet for
33:47whatever reason you're gonna put spiders
33:49in the same category so so just do the
33:52work in advance if you have no
33:53information then you have to assume the
33:55worst but you have your whole life to
33:58gather information so why not do it what
34:01why just assume the worst all the time
34:03the cat and the kitty Jaguar example
34:06definitely brings that into light and so
34:09sort of how ridiculous that frame worker
34:11belief is yeah if it's difference
34:13between belief and knowledge if you're
34:16just running around instinctively
34:18reacted on belief that you may as well
34:20be a pug you know I have a pug he's a
34:23delightful dog but he's not a deep
34:25thinker and he just he just deals with
34:27stuff the best he can and just
34:29instinctively reacts to everything but
34:32but we're not bugs
34:33we're the most rational of all beings
34:35and and what do you choose to do with
34:37with your ability to think I think has a
34:40big effect on what happens in your life
34:42you know that that kind of makes me
34:44think are transitioning a little bit
34:45into another thing that you've talked
34:47about which I fully agree with is this
34:50idea that dovetailing the concept of
34:53risk and danger the idea that most
34:55people's perception of how dangerous
34:58their lives are is actually totally
35:01disconnected from the reality that today
35:04we live in the safest healthiest you
35:06know period in ever in human history and
35:09we're you know the the world is actually
35:11a much better place than people realize
35:13absolutely everybody wants to feel
35:16significant of course it's a fundamental
35:18human natural need and that's good and
35:22you should recognize that you are no
35:23different than everybody else you want
35:25to feel worthwhile and significant but
35:28one of the ways to increase your own
35:29significance is to exaggerate the
35:32problems that exist the people that hold
35:34up the sign at the end of the world is
35:36coming it's because you know the world's
35:38been here for four and a half billion
35:39years and this person has painted a sign
35:42and stuck it up here in their particular
35:44seventy-five years on earth because they
35:46want this to be the most
35:47seventy-five years out of all the four
35:49and a half billion because it makes them
35:51feel good
35:51but it's kind of ridiculous you know the
35:54world is isn't about to suddenly end
35:56just because this person held up a sign
35:58and and so I think that natural lack of
36:03temporal perspective of yourself and the
36:05desire to feel significant tends to let
36:09you over exaggerate the risks that exist
36:11in your life you know it's never been
36:14harder to whatever to raise children or
36:16to or to do anything you know it's never
36:19been harder than it is now but boy you
36:21sure don't have to go very far back in
36:22human history to find examples that
36:24counter that argument like four hundred
36:27million people that died of smallpox in
36:29the last century which is the population
36:31of Europe or the number of people that
36:33were killed in World War one and how or
36:35the influenza epidemic of in 1919 1920
36:38you know that killed millions and
36:41hundreds of millions of people around
36:42the world or or whatever child diseases
36:46it I mean the number of people that make
36:48it their full natural lifespan now is
36:50higher than it's ever been for our
36:52species in worldwide and the opportunity
36:55I mean just in the in the cell phone you
36:57hold in your hand you have the Library
36:58of Alexandria you have all of sum total
37:01of human knowledge available to you and
37:03we've eliminated a lot of the diseases
37:04that used to plague us all the time so
37:08yeah life isn't easy but I think in an
37:12effort to to sometimes I don't know feel
37:14a little more significant we tend to
37:16over exaggerate the problems that face
37:17us right now and looking back into
37:20history of studying the problems that
37:22our predecessors faced hopefully that
37:24that helps put us into a little clearer
37:27image in the mirror in many ways it's
37:30it's almost the same lesson which is the
37:31idea that the more informed you are the
37:33more you understand how reality really
37:36is the less fear you have about these
37:39sort of vague things that are that are
37:40out there that people are worried about
37:42afraid of yeah yeah I think so and
37:46people say often to me gosh would you
37:49take a one-way trip to Mars and I sort
37:54of remind myself all the time that hey
37:56we're all on a one-way trip
37:57yeah yeah you can't get away from that
38:01you know you get your years and then
38:03life is done so get over that part don't
38:05don't pretend that you're gonna be the
38:07first person ever to never die
38:09so the real focus then is not to you
38:13know prolong some vestige of life for as
38:16desperately long as possible but
38:17actually to do the things that are
38:19important to you while you are alive
38:20that's the real key what was it what is
38:23important to me
38:24and what should I be working on because
38:25there's a randomness to life and and
38:28what should I be working on what should
38:29how should I be trying to change who I
38:31am one of the things that I love and
38:33that I want to do and that I hope to get
38:35done and let's work on those and not
38:37just spend my life cowering under the
38:40under the pillows in hope that somehow
38:41that'll extend my life by one more day
38:43you know to deal with the difference
38:46between between fear and danger and and
38:49recognize that you are kind of the
38:51thinking link between those two so that
38:53one doesn't need to overpower the other
38:55let's change directions I want to talk
38:58about another kind of quote or idea that
39:00you've shared which is the idea that the
39:01sky is not the limit yeah I guess I
39:04think it's funny when you see some
39:05advertising campaign and somebody says
39:07the sky's the limit I'm going wow have
39:10you ever looked through a telescope have
39:12you ever gone outside at night just we
39:15can win a funny phrase the sky's the
39:17limit
39:18maybe that made sense before the Wright
39:20brothers got flying at Kitty Hawk or
39:22before Yeager went through the speed of
39:25sound there and what are at 47 or Al
39:27Shepard flew in space and 61 or Neil and
39:30Buzz walked in the moon in 69 or Peggy
39:33who is commanding the space station
39:34right now you know when she did this is
39:37her second time commanding the
39:38International Space Station I mean the
39:42sky is is this a ghostly reflection of
39:46light that is the tiniest of vestige of
39:49onion skin thin sheaf around the hard
39:53rock of our planet that's what this guy
39:55is so so to think this guy's a limit it
39:58just makes me laugh and I think that
40:00kind of hints at the you know one of the
40:02things that I've heard a lot of
40:03astronauts talk about is this idea that
40:06viewing the Earth from outer space
40:09fundamentally shifts your perspective
40:12and gives you a much deeper
40:13understanding
40:14of the shared you know journey that
40:18humanity is on and the the fragile nests
40:20of earth can you tell me a little bit
40:21about that that experience and what that
40:23was like
40:24sure Earth is incredibly tough Earth has
40:28been here four and a half billion years
40:30which which is it almost is such a big
40:32number it's almost infinity four and a
40:35half billion years and we've recently
40:37found fossils on earth from four billion
40:40years ago the earliest of the two worms
40:42that were growing at at the wrists at
40:44the bottom of the oceans so there's been
40:46life on Earth for four billion years so
40:50life is tough and the earth is tough but
40:54but certain little styles of living
40:57there they're transient of course
40:59they're fragile and the earth gets hit
41:00by big events you know huge
41:02electromagnetic pulses from the Sun and
41:04other stars and huge million year long
41:06volcanic eruptions and caldera asteroid
41:08impacts and stuff so the earth is tough
41:11it's withstood all of those but life is
41:14precious and the earth as far as we can
41:16tell is the only place that life exists
41:19so far we haven't found life anywhere
41:21else there's lots of probabilities out
41:23there but we have found no evidence of
41:25life anywhere except on earth so far and
41:28we're looking and maybe we will find it
41:31but we haven't found it yet so I think
41:33you need to balance those when you're
41:35onboard a spaceship going around the
41:37world in 90 minutes you can see the
41:39rugged self-repairing ancient nature of
41:43the world you can see the onslaught of
41:46life and the flow of it and the
41:49undeniable rejuvenated nature of it
41:52because you go from 56 north to 56 south
41:56and you see the whole planet as where
41:59our orbit is tipped from the equator so
42:01you get to really truly understand the
42:04world without anybody telling you what
42:06to think you just actually get to see it
42:08the common shared way that we set up
42:11towns and villages and cities it doesn't
42:14matter whether you're over Timbuktu or
42:15or Timmins or Phoenix or London it
42:19doesn't matter that pattern of of how we
42:22choose to live those people is the same
42:24worldwide and our common
42:28goals you know we have different
42:29cultures and languages and histories and
42:31religions and beliefs but the stuff that
42:35that is common to us way is the stuff
42:38that is different amongst us we tend to
42:41exaggerate the differences naturally
42:43enough in just human nature but I think
42:46orbiting the world you are very much
42:48struck by the shared nature of human
42:51existence and the commonality of it and
42:54the the transient nature of it but also
42:57the necessity to to cherish it and and
43:03all of those are part of a being one of
43:06the human beings that gets a chance to
43:08orbit the world and also I think the
43:10reason you mentioned at the outset that
43:12I'm an author and speaker and such is is
43:17to not squander that experience to let
43:20people see it as clearly as possible to
43:24try and express it through words or
43:26images or music or whatever to let
43:28people truly see where we live and the
43:31fact that we're we're all breathing out
43:34of the same bubble I think those those
43:36perspectives are fairly new to us as a
43:39species you know it's it's the result of
43:41our new technology that allows us to see
43:43ourselves that way and and what we do
43:46with that information I think is
43:48important another idea that you've
43:50shared is the concept of aiming to be a
43:52zero can you tell me about that when I
43:55was a young man I of course was very
43:58confident I liked a lot of young men are
44:00you get that sort of nevado and feeling
44:02of invincibility and I was downhill ski
44:05racer and a pilot and becoming a fighter
44:09pilot and so you sort of become over
44:13sure of your own decision-making ability
44:16and your own ability to do the right
44:18thing and of course you're nowhere near
44:20perfect and you make some good decisions
44:22and you make some bad ones but you only
44:25see the world through your own eyes and
44:27sometimes it gets pretty distorted and
44:29and I found the natural thing to do
44:31especially when younger was to assume
44:33that no matter what I decided it was
44:35probably right and the way I tried to
44:37explain it to myself was no matter what
44:40I do are going to be a positive
44:41influence if I come into a situation I
44:43look around a bunch of people are doing
44:44stuff but what they really need is me to
44:46tell them what to do or at least to
44:47express my opinion that'll sort
44:49everything out if I can be a positive I
44:52called myself like I'm a plus-one no
44:53matter what I do I come in as a positive
44:55plus one influence but of course if
44:58you're coming into a complicated
44:59situation that's been going on for a
45:01while there are all sorts of subtle
45:04influences and factors and history and
45:07things that are going on that you're
45:09unaware of
45:10and you'll come blundering in with some
45:12idea that just occurred to you as if
45:15you're the only person that could have
45:16thought of that idea and everybody
45:18around you recognized that you're not a
45:20positive Y or a negative Y or a minus
45:23one and everybody around you immediately
45:26says wow I wait till this guy leaves cuz
45:28what an idiot and so I tried to be
45:31slightly more realistic in my own
45:33abilities and instead of just assuming I
45:37was a plus one and inevitably under a
45:39lot of complex circumstances in effect
45:42being a minus one I tried to instead
45:44come into a new situation deliberately
45:46saying okay I'm going to aim initially
45:48to be a zero here I'm just going to aim
45:51to actually not cause harm to try and
45:55give myself time to notice what's
45:57actually happening to become informed to
46:00become sensitive to the subtleties that
46:02actually dictate what's happening here
46:04and then be a lot more selective and
46:08deliberate in how I'm going to try and
46:10be a plus one and be a positive
46:12influence and there are lots of times
46:15that won't work I mean if the classic
46:18example is if the building is on fire
46:20it's not time for a new instant nuanced
46:23interpretation to what needs to be done
46:24you need to take action you know if
46:26something bad is happening then you
46:29don't have time for consultation you
46:30just have to go with everything you've
46:32learned at that point to take action and
46:34do your odds the best to be a plus one
46:35but the building is very seldom
46:38on fire and yet we often treat it like
46:41it always is so I think it's good to
46:44have a bunch of tricks up your sleeve
46:45but you are better served in life to
46:48come into a new situation deliberately
46:51targeting yourself as a zero then just
46:54assuming
46:55that you're gonna be a plus-one I think
46:57it'll serve you better but it will also
46:59serve the environment around you a lot
47:01better what is one piece of homework
47:03that you would give for somebody
47:04listening to this conversation that that
47:07they could do to concretely implement
47:09some of the ideas that we've talked
47:11about today two things one is find
47:14something that you're really interested
47:16in that you're passionate about that
47:17that expires you that that it raises
47:20your pulse just to think about it that
47:21that makes you want to know more and
47:23start using your free time to become
47:26more expert in that area actually you
47:30know if you're interested in doesn't
47:32matter what if you're interested in I
47:35don't know
47:36trees doesn't matter well well spend
47:39some time actually studying it learn
47:41about it become expert in one part of it
47:43and then another part of it start making
47:46expertise in the areas that you're
47:49interested in part of who you are
47:50try and really tap into what naturally
47:53motivates you and then allow yourself
47:56the privilege of becoming expert and
47:59competent in the areas that that
48:01motivates you I think that will serve
48:03you well no matter what and the other is
48:06have a look at what it is that makes you
48:08fearful and don't just accept the fear
48:11but actually say why does that make I
48:14can tell when I'm feeling fearful you
48:16know that unsettled that feeling in my
48:18gut and I can feel the clamminess of my
48:20skin and that makes me afraid just to
48:23deal with that and then start to treat
48:26it clinically what is it about that that
48:28actually is the danger what is the real
48:31problem that I'm trying to solve how can
48:34I change who I am so that I could deal
48:37with that problem better what skill am i
48:39lacking what why am i allowing myself
48:42just to be a terrified little chihuahua
48:44here when I'm on a kind of functioning
48:47you know Homo sapiens how can I change
48:49who I am so that I'm not just relying on
48:52fear to deal with that facet of my life
48:54cuz fear to me is a destructive long
48:58term solution to anything it's okay in
49:00the short term but you don't want to
49:01have that the way that you deal with
49:02something in life and I think if you
49:05balance those two things that's probably
49:07enough homework for today
49:08and Chris where can listeners find you
49:11and in your books online well the books
49:15of course are available everywhere books
49:16you know any of the online booksellers
49:18Amazon or stuff that they can go to
49:19chris hadfield
49:20CA chris hadfield the h ad fi eld chris
49:24hadfield CA and all of the stuff is
49:27available there and then there's all
49:29sorts of you know stuff available on
49:31online as well I perform music with
49:34symphonies and have various music
49:37available and ideas and and the books
49:40and then I speak all over the world and
49:42if you go to Chris Hadfield dot CA you
49:43can look under events and see where and
49:45what I'm going to be speaking somewhere
49:47nearby so yeah there's there's heads
49:49it's a world of information and
49:50relatively easy to access but I think if
49:52you just google under my name then
49:54that's probably the best place to start
49:56well Chris thank you so much for coming
49:59on the show sharing your incredible
50:00story and all of your wisdom so many
50:03great lessons for the audience so really
50:05thank you very much it was a pleasure to
50:07talk with you and I look forward to
50:08seeing you in person thank you so much
50:11for listening to the science of success
50:12we created the show to help you our
50:15listeners master evidence-based growth I
50:18love hearing from listeners if you want
50:20to reach out share your story or just
50:22say hi shoot me an email my email is
50:25matt at success podcast.com that's ma TT
50:28at success podcast.com i'd love to hear
50:32from you and I read respond to every
50:34single listener email in fact I
50:35responded to a number of listener emails
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52:22[Music]
52:32you

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