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How The 1% BUILD WEALTH (Copy These Millionaire Habits) | Alex Hormozi — Transcript

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0:03Alex Hormozi, welcome to the show.
0:06Thank you for having me. Dude, I cannot
0:08be more excited. So, I want to dive
0:10right in. If somebody is starting from
0:12scratch, what are the traits, skill sets
0:15that they should be cultivating in order
0:17to up the odds of their success?
0:20Uh they should focus on one thing
0:23in general, rather than lots of
0:24different things that you're not sure
0:25about. Cuz if you're starting out,
0:26everything looks like an opportunity.
0:28So, the correct answer is all of them
0:30are opportunities, but all of them won't
0:32work unless you pick one, right? So, you
0:33have to say no to all the other
0:34mistresses. So, boom, you pick one. And
0:36then from there, I would say six figures
0:38is sell something to someone. That's it.
0:41And if you want more detail, sell
0:42something to someone, so it's one
0:44avatar, one product, one channel. So,
0:46you don't have to figure out how do I
0:47create 20 pieces of content across It's
0:49like
0:50just pick one channel, one media source,
0:52whether it's Facebook, Instagram,
0:53YouTube, you know, whatever, Twitter.
0:55Mhm. Consistently, start going on that,
0:57whether that's cold outbound, whether
0:58that's content, whether it's running
0:59paid ads, whether it's uh affiliates,
1:02word of mouth, whatever it is. Um and
1:04start reaching out to people there to
1:05start selling your stuff. And so, if you
1:07can just do that consistently, and I use
1:09something or I can What what's the skill
1:11set that's going to make somebody good?
1:12And this is six figures still.
1:13Yeah, yeah. So, what's the skill set in
1:15that? Is it getting good at the
1:17outbound? Is it getting good at saying
1:19no to the other stuff? Like, how do we
1:20translate that into a skill set? You
1:23have to learn how to advertise, which I
1:24define as
1:26the process of making known. So, how do
1:28you let other people know about the
1:28stuff you sell? So, you have to
1:30advertise. There's six ways to do it. I
1:31covered five just now. So, there's
1:33there's six ways you can do it. And then
1:35once people engage with whatever
1:36advertising you have, you have to sell
1:38them. So, advertising is the first
1:39skill, selling them is the second skill.
1:41And then product would be the third
1:43skill, which is the thing that you're
1:44ultimately advertising and selling. Mhm.
1:46Okay, so that gets us six figures. What
1:47gets us seven? Doing the same thing
1:49consistently.
1:51So, usually once people do it in the
1:52beginning, they're sporadic, they're not
1:54consistent with it. Just the act of
1:55doing the same thing every day usually
1:57gets people to
1:59100,000 a month, which sounds crazy to
2:00probably people listening, but most
2:02people who think that's crazy also
2:03haven't done it consistently for an
2:04extended period of time. And so, I use
2:06something that I call the rule of 100,
2:09which is 100 primary actions, whether
2:10that's 100 minutes of of content
2:13creation per day, 100 reach outs per
2:15day,
2:16$100 of ad spend per day. Uh just like
2:19you have to pick one of them, but 100
2:20per day. You need to do that for 100
2:22days, and I promise you you'll have
2:24you'll be making six figures if you do
2:25that.
2:26Most people won't. Yeah. I know you know
2:28that. They will fail at something. What
2:32is the most common thing that you see
2:35people fail? So, you give them the
2:37blueprint. Your ability to articulate a
2:39blueprint to success is insane.
2:42Legitimately insane, dude. When I So,
2:45I'm going to make a prediction right
2:46now. 5 years from now in this space, you
2:48will be one of the biggest people on
2:50social media, 100% guaranteed. YouTube,
2:52podcast, whatever. Thanks. Because your
2:54advice is real. And I said I I was about
2:56to tell you something, and I said I'm
2:57going to say it on camera, and I will
2:58tell you right now. I judge everybody
3:01that comes on the show by when I'm doing
3:03the research to bring you on, which is a
3:04way bigger time investment than the
3:06interview itself. Did I actually learn
3:09something? Did I move forward? Did I
3:10enjoy myself? Dude, it was awesome.
3:13Researching you was awesome. It was good
3:15for the business, it was good for the
3:17soul, good for the mindset, everything.
3:18So, this is going to be incredible.
3:21But where do people fall down? Because
3:23most people, even knowing how articulate
3:26you are and know that people are still
3:28going to fail is crazy. And I know that
3:32most people are going to fail. So, where
3:33where do people really struggle in that
3:35equation?
3:37I think it's fear, mostly. Um I know
3:40that's not a skill, but I think it's a
3:41character trait. And so, people are
3:43afraid of val- you know, not getting
3:45validated, or they're afraid of judgment
3:47that they perceive from other people
3:48that exist or don't exist in their
3:49lives. Um and so, for whatever reason,
3:52they have this second voice that
3:54criticizes everything they do that in
3:56reality isn't even there, um, but it's
3:58constantly present. It's like the
3:59antithesis of whatever the god figure
4:01is, but just the negative voice. And so
4:03I think that's the thing that stops most
4:05people from doing the stuff they know
4:06they need to do. Because if you think
4:07about like whether it's want to get in
4:09shape or I want to have a better
4:10marriage or I want to make more money,
4:11most people on some level, at a basic
4:13level, they know what to do. And my
4:15proof point of like even making money,
4:17right? Most of us have had a bill that
4:19came up that was unexpected, a tax bill,
4:21a car breaks down, a health thing,
4:23whatever it is, and we find a way. And
4:26so when it's for someone else,
4:28people are will use the actual
4:30resourcefulness that they have to make
4:31the money, but for whatever reason they
4:33won't use that same resourcefulness to
4:34make it for themselves. And so I think
4:36that most people know if they want to
4:38work out, uh, start to to get in shape
4:40or to lose weight, whatever, they know
4:41they need to eat fewer donuts and move
4:43more in general.
4:44But they don't, right? Cuz they're
4:45afraid of getting started or if they
4:47don't have the discipline to keep going,
4:49which is they can't make the short-term
4:50sacrifice for the long-term achievement.
4:51So, big picture, it's like there's
4:53usually some fear that's preventing from
4:54doing it. And then how it looks from a
4:56behavioral standpoint is they do not
4:58make the short-term sacrifice of
5:00discomfort for the long-term
5:01achievement. Facts. Independent of
5:03whatever path they're talking about.
5:04Mhm.
5:05You guys are going to want to stay till
5:06the end. I'm going to give you my
5:07favorite Alex quote, but now I'm going
5:09to give you one that I actually think
5:10pertains to this. So, uh, you said, "How
5:13to stay poor? Assume you're always
5:15right."
5:15Yeah. And when I think about people
5:17failing, it's because in fact there's
5:19another quote, and this one I didn't
5:21write down, but I'm going to get close.
5:23Um, marketing is just a fancy
5:24nine-letter word for test.
5:26And
5:28once people understand you're going to
5:29fail and you're going to fail a lot,
5:31then if you can't deal with that
5:33failure,
5:34if you think that failing makes you a
5:36failure, if you think that it's a
5:38permanent state of being and you're
5:39never going to get better, then you
5:40won't do the things you need to do to
5:42ultimately be successful. You talk about
5:43consistency.
5:44Yeah.
5:45But it isn't just consistency cuz if you
5:47do it wrong
5:48Yeah. consistently, you're still going
5:50to fail, right? So, this is you have to
5:52be, in my own language, willing to stare
5:54nakedly at your inadequacies.
5:56Yeah. And if you can stare nakedly at
5:58your inadequacies, then you can actually
6:00get better. If you're running the tests
6:02and you're like, "Hey, looking at the
6:03data, did this work or did this not
6:05work?"
6:05100%. Then you can actually improve.
6:08But you went through this. So, in the
6:10beginning of your career, and this is
6:12one of the things I find most
6:13interesting about your story, is you
6:15failed. Yeah. You actually pulled your
6:17now wife aside and said, "I'm a sinking
6:20ship."
6:21Yeah. Uh and if you wanted to leave, I
6:24would completely understand. Yeah. Uh
6:26how did you go from that Yeah. to like
6:29there was something you figured out.
6:31Yeah. What what is that thing you
6:33figured out?
6:36I think at that point, um
6:39the the reality of my situation was so
6:42bleak that
6:44I I didn't I honestly didn't even
6:47process the reality of my situation
6:48because the more I thought about it,
6:50like the sadder or more hopeless I would
6:52feel. And so, I focused on the few
6:54things that were under my control, which
6:55was like, I can do these things. And so,
6:57when I talk about advertising, when I
6:59talk about selling, I talk about those
7:00things boiled down to the actual actions
7:02because I had to think of it in that way
7:04cuz it was the only way that it wasn't
7:05overwhelming. It's like, I just have to
7:07make 100 reach outs or I just have to
7:09spend $100 a day and I have to look at
7:11the ads and I have to turn off the ones
7:14that are bad and do more of the stuff
7:15that starts to work. Um and and that
7:18that was the process of getting me from
7:20kind of like
7:22dark uh to a better a better outcome.
7:25But I mean, from that actual point, we
7:27did the only thing we knew how to do,
7:28which was market and sell. And that was
7:30That was how we got out of that And
7:31honestly, that that single skill of
7:33being able to generate leads um
7:35independent of the industry has been
7:36like my get-out-of-jail-free card, um
7:39which has allowed me to fail over and
7:40over and over again until finally, you
7:42know, I got it right. And even after
7:43that one, when we were at the rock
7:45bottom there, I had just, you know, nine
7:4890 days earlier got a DUI, my mom was in
7:51the hospital,
7:53um
7:53really bad shape. Uh
7:55that's when I had just lost all the
7:57money, um which is when I pulled her
7:58aside. But then, fast forward 6 months,
8:01basically repeated the cycle again. Um
8:03which is I had We had started doing
8:05these launches where we'd fly out and
8:07and turn gyms around like Bar Rescue,
8:08but for gyms.
8:10And when we were out there,
8:13uh
8:14all of a sudden we came back home and we
8:15saw like two of the gyms refunded all of
8:17the transactions cuz they just told the
8:19people they could just sign up through
8:20them and just do it for half the rate
8:22after we had already spent the money for
8:23the hotels and the flights and all the
8:25ad spend and everything, you know, a
8:26whole month of work.
8:27And so, we basically all of the money
8:30that we had saved up in that like, I
8:31think we're out of jail free, lost it
8:33all again.
8:34Um and only then did we accidentally
8:38um
8:38pivot into the licensing model, which
8:40ended up becoming the thing that was
8:41like the first very big success um that
8:44we had. But like,
8:45that whole period of time was 5 years of
8:48basically not having anything. Um even
8:50though on, you know, on paper, when I
8:52had the gyms, I materially looked
8:53successful cuz we had six locations. Um
8:55but I always just put all my money back
8:57into each, you know, each new location.
8:58So, I had very little actual cash. I was
9:00asset rich and cash poor. I know,
9:02Jarrell. Yeah, [laughter] right. And so,
9:04but then when I lost everything after
9:06that because I sold them, took the
9:07money, put in the new venture, then lost
9:09it, I was like, wait, I just lost 5
9:12years cuz I had nothing to show for it.
9:14And so, that's probably what what has
9:15created a lot of the hypothesis I have
9:17now around I didn't lose the 5 years. I
9:20lost the assets were were which were not
9:22the most valuable thing that I had
9:24earned over that time. It was the
9:25skills, the experiences, the character
9:27traits because I still had those. And
9:29then using those three things, I was
9:30able to do the next thing, fortunately.
9:32Um Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm
9:35with learning. Yeah. And it's
9:37interesting because I've had the level
9:39of success that I've had and because I'm
9:41technically middle-aged, which is crazy
9:43to say.
9:44Uh I used to be the kid. I swear to god.
9:46Uh
9:48it is it's really there's a
9:50gravitational center in my brain that
9:52wants me to think that I have crossed
9:55some line.
9:55Yeah. And that it's about looking
9:58backwards.
9:59And it's really dangerous. Like you have
10:03to be looking forward. I mean, God
10:04willing, I've got you know, another
10:0640-plus years of life left.
10:09And
10:11every time that I get in that trap, it's
10:15I just re-anchor around, "Wow, I'm still
10:17learning." Like all this stuff, I'm 46,
10:19but I've learned so much. I failed so
10:22many times and I've acquired so much
10:24knowledge and skill set and all of that.
10:26And then you can think about, "Oh, cool.
10:28Like as long as I've got the energy to
10:30keep pushing, to keep building." Because
10:32I have
10:33to your earliest point about what makes
10:35you successful, it's the
10:37That is literally my kryptonite. Is I
10:39have a very hard time accepting the fact
10:42that I can do anything I want with my
10:44life, but not everything. Yeah. And that
10:47I find
10:48deeply distressing. Yeah. But like on a
10:51level that borders on mental illness.
10:53And
10:55by focusing, cutting out the other
10:57stuff, and recognizing, "Okay, I've
10:59reinvented myself again."
11:00Yeah.
11:01But
11:03a lot of that knowledge is going to
11:04transfer, it's going to be useful as I
11:06push forward. But getting obsessed with
11:08learning, like that would be the gift if
11:10I could give to people and say, "Okay,
11:12you you want to be successful." I get
11:14it, everybody wants it right now. But if
11:16you can stack these skills,
11:18like
11:19then if you've got the skill set and the
11:22methodology that, you know,
11:24you and others can really lay out
11:26incredibly well. It's like now you can
11:29do something. But if you have the
11:30methodology but not the skills, or you
11:32don't have the mindset and so you're
11:34broken by the failure or you don't have
11:36the methodology. If you're missing any
11:38one of those, then you end up in a death
11:40spiral. Yeah.
11:42It's interesting what you're saying with
11:43the learning thing because
11:44um I think a lot of people are like the
11:47early cuz I I also I feel like I feel
11:48like two parts of the audience is that
11:50like follow my stuff. I've got the
11:51business owners who are trying to scale
11:53their business etc. and then I've got
11:54all the people who want to start a
11:55business and usually they're a little
11:57bit younger and whatnot. And I think
11:59there's a a misnomer around like
12:01education. And so a lot of them, I don't
12:03know how explicit I can be but like they
12:05mentally masturbate to watching lots and
12:06lots of videos. They, you know, want the
12:08pump up speeches. They buy the tickets
12:10to the things.
12:10Mhm.
12:11And so they just learn and I think that
12:14they think that exposure to information
12:17is learning and I don't think that's
12:19true or at least it hasn't been for me.
12:21It's definitely not true. So you know,
12:23cuz I I'm sure you get asked all the
12:24time like what are the books that, you
12:26know, transformed your life? And I've
12:27had a handful of books that have been
12:28useful to me but I would say 99% of the
12:31things that I have learned I've learned
12:32through doing. And so when I do the
12:35original rule of 100 and whatnot, it's
12:37because I think it's the most effective
12:38way to learn
12:40which is you force yourself to on the
12:41one controllable that you have which is
12:43the activities that you can take and
12:44then it goes with the underlying
12:45assumption that you go off feedback and
12:48you're like, well, that opening message
12:50did not work. Yeah. Right? [laughter]
12:52And then I think most people would have
12:53a dramatic underestimation of how much
12:55volume it takes to be successful
12:57independent of the thing, right? They're
12:58like, okay, I should go on five dates
13:00and then find the girl I'm going to
13:01marry. Like, what if it was 500
13:03to find the right girl you're going to
13:04marry? Or I want to, you know, start
13:07this this new channel or I want to I
13:08want to become an influencer whatever it
13:09is and they start doing, you know, one
13:11post a day for four weeks and they're
13:14like, why am I not famous yet? And they
13:17find I mean, real, right? And they find
13:20out that like, you know, we ended up
13:22doing 400 episodes before we made it to
13:24the top 10 on the podcast thing. And now
13:27we start doing, you know, 100 plus
13:28pieces of content a week. And it's just
13:31this volume game that you get the the
13:34skill from the volume, the feedback from
13:36the volume. And you There's all these
13:37like little things. I'm sure it's like
13:39from the exercise world cuz you come
13:40from that. Um like when you squat, the
13:43first time you squat, you're you're
13:44orienting yourself to your environment.
13:46You're barely actually squatting. You're
13:47just looking like you have a bar on your
13:49back. But you learn so much between that
13:51first rep and your 10,000th rep of
13:53squats. And so I think for most people
13:55it's like if we can if I My goal, like
13:56you with the learning, it's like if I
13:58can just decrease the action threshold
13:59for people to begin and be okay with the
14:01fact that they're going to suck and it
14:03is okay to suck. It is You should expect
14:05to suck. And it would be unreasonable
14:07for you to be good if you haven't done
14:09it before.
14:10And so it's like are you asking the
14:11universe to be unreasonable for you
14:13by
14:14expecting to be good on your first try?
14:17And I think that's where a lot of people
14:18It's the expectation that destroys their
14:20ability to be successful because they
14:21expect to win on the first shot and no
14:23one does. Do you worry at all about
14:25people wanting to be on camera right
14:27from the jump? Because that puts an
14:28expectation to be good that
14:31Yeah. That's rough. Um
14:34I think it's so much like
14:37if we're
14:38so
14:39I have so many so many feelings about
14:40this. Um
14:42so you've got you've got this whole
14:43space, right? And you look at like if
14:44you're like I want to be a business
14:45influencer, right? Well, it's like well,
14:47you look at the guys who are actually at
14:48the top of the business game. And
14:49virtually everyone, you, Andy, Ed, Gary,
14:53all those guys have killed it in
14:55business. And most of them, even Gary,
14:59had gone to 60 million a year before he
15:01made his first content. And so I think
15:03the issue is that people look at that
15:04and say I should make content like them
15:07when you don't have you can't answer the
15:08underlying question, which is why should
15:09I listen to you, which is always in the
15:11back of every audience's mind, in my
15:12opinion.
15:13At least that's what I think. Like when
15:14someone's like a relationship expert and
15:15I find out they've been divorced three
15:16times, I'm like, yeah, you know, maybe
15:18not. Right? I mean, and as terrible as
15:20it is, they might be giving amazing
15:21advice, but it doesn't pass the first
15:22filter, which is if I'm going to take
15:24military strategy from someone, I'd
15:26rather have a general that has a winning
15:27record, even if the other guy Napoleon
15:29said, "I'd rather have lucky generals."
15:31So, even if you had two that were even,
15:33you'd rather have the lucky one. And so,
15:34to the same degree, I think people use
15:35that filter because it actually takes
15:37less effort to learn from someone that
15:38you trust.
15:39And so, it's like if you've got the the
15:40basement teacher that's telling you to
15:41dollar cost average into the S&P, and
15:43you've got Warren Buffett who's telling
15:45people to dollar cost average in the
15:46S&P, they don't want to listen to the
15:47teacher, even if the teacher is better
15:49objectively from a constant standpoint,
15:51because they just don't know if they
15:52should trust them. So, you have to have
15:53two filters. I'm hearing a thing, should
15:54I trust the thing? With Warren, you can
15:56just plug into whatever he's saying and
15:58just take it as truth, which takes less
15:59effort. And so, I think most people
16:01don't get that point. And so, I think
16:03you should make content, but the if
16:05you're you should advertise the stuff
16:07that you sell. Let people know about
16:08what you're doing. Um but it should be
16:10about the true expertise that you have,
16:12which is often times just talking about
16:14the stuff you're doing, rather than
16:15saying, "You should be doing this.
16:18This is what I am doing. Hope you find
16:20it interesting. Hope you find it
16:21valuable." And I think that's a big
16:22dynamic, which it versus like how to,
16:24it's how I.
16:25Um just that little shift, and I think a
16:27lot of people would get much bigger,
16:29better audiences, and actually make more
16:31money from the content that they're
16:32making, because everyone else is like,
16:34"Why should I listen to you?" Yeah.
16:36Yeah, with content like I'm I'm open.
16:38Anybody that wants to make it, make it.
16:40People will watch it if it's adding
16:41value. Hopefully, they don't do what you
16:43were describing earlier, which I'll call
16:44spiritual entertainment, where they're
16:45just learning, learning, learning,
16:47watching, watching, watching, getting
16:48motivated, getting inspired, they're not
16:49doing anything with it. But my big
16:51concern with people creating content is
16:54that they will trap themselves because
16:56they're afraid to suck. Like when I got
16:59on camera, I was like, "Wow, I'm really
17:01rolling the dice now, because my life
17:04has taught me one immutable truth. I'm
17:06going to fail a lot." And there's
17:08nothing that tells me that that period
17:10in my life is over. Like and and it was
17:13never interesting to me to like ride
17:15into the sunset on, "Oh, I sold Quest.
17:18So, I sold Quest and then like [ __ ]
17:20Babe Ruth, I said I'm going to build the
17:21next Disney, right?
17:23But I went on camera and said, look,
17:24honestly the odds are stacked against
17:26me. The odds that I fail are way higher
17:28than I that I succeed, right? And so,
17:31going into that, I did not want to back
17:33myself into a corner where I was afraid
17:35to try things. I was afraid to step into
17:37an area where I wasn't good, because
17:39it's the only way that I know to get
17:40better, right? Which I call the physics
17:41of progress. I call it the physics for a
17:43reason, cuz I think it is truly the only
17:45way to improve is basically the
17:47scientific method. You come up with an
17:49informed hypothesis, come up with a test
17:51that lets you actually try that out, you
17:54test it, you get results, you stare
17:56nakedly at those results, which will
17:58sting a little cuz it almost certainly
18:00did not work as well as you hoped. Yeah.
18:02You will then get a little bit wiser,
18:03you will reformulate a hypothesis, you
18:05will retest, and you just that's the
18:07loop, right? And you just go go go, and
18:09you see what works and you see what
18:10doesn't, but people are so interested in
18:14looking cool that the content becomes
18:18the trap that stops them from actually
18:20getting good. It's the posturing.
18:23It's the external validation that they
18:24need to feel like the success they're
18:26not having in reality can be made up for
18:27with likes and comments and perceived
18:29success.
18:31Talk to me about the So, you said that
18:34you wanted to vanquish your dad. Yeah.
18:36So, this to me is tied to that idea of
18:38like you you need something that propels
18:41you, you need something that pushes you
18:42to go through all of this.
18:45But also trying letting your dad control
18:49your actions is probably not the best
18:52move. Yeah. So, like how is it useful
18:55and then is there getting to the other
18:56side of that? Yeah.
18:59So, um and you know, to be clear, Dad.
19:02Um
19:04The I would say that the the vanquishing
19:05thing is something that I was able to
19:06kind of recognize in retrospect, which
19:08was it was all about beating my dad
19:10earlier on. So, and a lot of that was
19:12because I felt like a lot of the respect
19:13was withheld from me earlier on and it
19:15was always like a moving target, which
19:16is, you know, you need to be this, you
19:18need to be that, you have to be in
19:19shape, you have to date hot girls, you
19:20have to be top of your class, you have
19:22to play all the varsity sports, you like
19:24all those things, right? Be editor in
19:25chief of the newspaper, be editor in
19:26chief of the of the literary magazine,
19:28all those things at the same time and
19:30still, if I got something wrong on a
19:31test, it was like, "What did you get
19:32wrong?" You know, rather than, "This is
19:34cool." And I'm not Got 99 right. Yeah,
19:36I'm not boohooing about it. It is what
19:38it is. It's made me who I am and I'm
19:39grateful for it. Um but that was kind of
19:41the the earlier part was I wanted to win
19:43the game that had been set out for me.
19:46And, you know, first it was make a
19:48100,000 a year and then it was make uh
19:50the same as my amount as my dad and then
19:52it was make more than my dad and then it
19:53was make more than my dad had ever made
19:54in his entire life. And then once that
19:57happened, I looked around and I was
19:58like,
20:00I think I've been playing
20:02his game and not my game. And so, I
20:04wasn't really setting any rules. I was
20:06just playing with the rules that were
20:07given to me. And so, in kind of thing
20:10like, is this even the game I want to
20:11play?
20:12And so, that, you know, that took me,
20:13you know, a little bit of time to
20:14process. Um and I think that it
20:16ultimately, to your question, I think it
20:18did serve me a lot. Um and I don't know
20:20how much of these reinforced behaviors
20:22that I learned during that period of
20:23time still benefit me today, but they're
20:25not fueled by the same thing. So, I
20:26still have these habits of how I work
20:28and and, you know, being dedicated
20:30towards goals, etc., that I think were
20:31born of that um but no longer are fueled
20:34from that now.
20:36[laughter]
20:36You lay out three traits of ultra
20:38successful people. Yeah. I don't know if
20:40they're yours or if you got them from
20:42somewhere. This is
20:44so brilliant. And when you said it, you
20:46put words to something that I have felt
20:48for a very long time. Yeah. Um if you
20:51don't remember them, I have them here,
20:52but if you remember
20:53them. Yes. Uh and so, it's
20:57there's three traits that people do when
20:58they looked at cuz they were trying to
20:59find habits of highly successful people
21:02and when they actually pulled apart,
21:03it's not, you know, and I hope I'm not
21:05con- con- contradicting anything.
21:08But there's people who are really rich
21:10who wake up really late and work really
21:12late. And there's people who are really
21:12rich who wake up really really early.
21:13And there's people who are really rich
21:14who eat really healthy. And there's
21:15people who are really rich who drink
21:16Coca-Cola and eat french fries every
21:18day. And so there's all these things
21:19that we want to make as truths, but
21:20there there's easy examples that counter
21:22those things. So it's like what are the
21:23few things that are true or at least
21:25that seem to be present in all of the
21:26situations. And it seems as though there
21:27were surprisingly few.
21:29And so the three common traits that they
21:30had uh that they had found were one,
21:33that people have a superiority complex.
21:34They believe they're better than others
21:36and they believe that they deserve more
21:37than everyone else does and that they
21:38can accomplish big goals. Right? So they
21:40have a bigger vision because they
21:41believe they deserve it or whatever it
21:43is. That they were able to identify
21:44that. The second thing that they would
21:46identify is that they had crippling
21:47insecurity. And which which is a paradox
21:50of paradoxes. They feel they'll never be
21:52enough um and they'll always be measured
21:54against the things that they've
21:55achieved. And so you've got this crazy
21:57dynamic between they they think they're
21:59better than everyone, they think they
22:00deserve more, they want to go after this
22:02big hill, and at the same time they fear
22:03they'll never be good enough, they'll
22:04never actually achieve it, and they
22:05actually suck.
22:07And then the third piece, which kind of
22:08adds the beautiful like mix of this, is
22:10impulse control.
22:11And so they're able to control their
22:14actions and focus on a single thing for
22:15an extended period of time. And so if
22:17you put those two things together, it's
22:18like you've got a big goal that's
22:19pulling you this way, you've got this
22:21big fear that you were are running away
22:23from, and then you've got impulse
22:24control to keep you focused on the one
22:25thing that matters.
22:26And if you do that if you if you are the
22:28type of person who has those traits,
22:29then you are very likely to be
22:31successful.
22:32What is up my friend? Tom Bilyeu here
22:34and I have a big question to ask you.
22:36How would you rate your level of
22:37personal discipline on a scale of 1 to
22:3910? If your answer is anything less than
22:41a 10, I've got something cool for you.
22:43And let me tell you right now,
22:43discipline by its very nature means
22:46compelling yourself to do difficult
22:48things that are stressful,
22:49[music]
22:49boring, which is what kills most people,
22:51or possibly scary or even painful. Now,
22:54here is the thing. Achieving huge goals
22:56and stretching to reach your potential
22:58requires you to do those challenging
23:00stressful things and to stick with them
23:02even when it gets boring, and it will
23:04get boring. Building your levels of
23:06personal discipline is not easy, but let
23:08me tell you it pays off. In fact, I will
23:10tell you you're never going to achieve
23:11anything meaningful unless you develop
23:13discipline. All right, I've just
23:14released a class from Impact Theory
23:16University called how to build ironclad
23:18discipline that teaches you the process
23:20of building yourself up in this area so
23:22that you can push yourself to do the
23:24hard things that greatness is going to
23:26require of you. All right, click the
23:27link on the screen, register for this
23:29class right now, and let's get to work.
23:31I will see you inside this workshop from
23:33Impact Theory University. Until then, my
23:35friends, be legendary. Peace out.
23:39You gave me the chills twice while you
23:40were explaining that. So, this is
23:43I'm often asked like, "Hey, you know,
23:45what does it take to be successful, or
23:47how did I get successful?" And I'm like,
23:50"From the time I was a little kid." So,
23:52I grew up lower middle class, and but
23:54from the time I was a kid, I told
23:55everybody, "I am going to be rich. Like,
23:58you don't understand. I'm going to be
23:59rich." I was so angered by not being
24:02able to get the things that I wanted as
24:04a kid, and I had a little problem with
24:06authority, and so I felt like I was
24:07being told that I had this box to stand
24:09on. I was like, "No, no, no." I had
24:11always had these crazy dreams, and I
24:12just believed I could make it come true.
24:15Yeah. But I'm terrifyingly insecure that
24:19I'm not smart enough to pull it off, and
24:21I have something I need to prove to
24:22myself, to my wife, my father-in-law, my
24:25own parents. Like, I just [ __ ] no matter
24:28how much I achieve, I still have this.
24:30Right? So, I I have this crushing need
24:34to validate myself and to feel like,
24:37"No, you really did have it, kid."
24:39And but I am psychotic at my ability to
24:43delay gratification. Like, I can suffer
24:46and toil and grind, and just like, I
24:50don't need to eat the marshmallow for
24:52100 years, right? Which is stupid in
24:54some ways. But you put those three
24:57things together and you just go and go
25:00and go. It's really gave me chills. Gave
25:03me chills.
25:04So to the marshmallow point cuz I think
25:06this is really interesting and I don't
25:07think it's talked about enough. Which is
25:09they they like to separate the kids into
25:11the two buckets, right? Like the kid who
25:13waits for two marshmallows and the kid
25:14who just says I want the marshmallow
25:15now. But I feel like they should have a
25:17third bucket which is how long do they
25:20ask the kid to wait for the marshmallow?
25:22Right? Because it's not do you have like
25:24is I like to think of things in like a
25:26lot of times we have false dichotomies
25:27or we have binaries where we're like
25:28good or bad, you know, disciplined or
25:30undisciplined, I'm honest or dishonest,
25:32right? When I think more reality is to
25:33what degree am I honest? To what extent
25:35am I disciplined? To what degree am I,
25:37you know, loyal? Right? Oh god, there's
25:39a whole conversation there.
25:41Yeah. And so I think that each of those
25:42three traits that we just went over,
25:44it's it's not do I have them or not for
25:46the people who are listening cuz people
25:48like to think yes, I have it or like oh
25:50well, I have all three of those. It's
25:51not having them. And I'm sure you you've
25:53interviewed some of the most successful
25:55people on the planet, it's how much do
25:56you have? Right? And so I think that
25:59like your ability to delay gratification
26:01is not just like oh, I can wait a week
26:03or I can wait a month, but it I made
26:06this tweet that that went pretty viral
26:08and it was like if you can wait a year,
26:11you can make a ton of money. Like if you
26:13can do something for 12 months, you can
26:15not need for financial goodness pretty
26:17much for the rest of your life. I'm not
26:18saying you're going to be hella rich,
26:20but you're going to not going to need
26:21for anything if you can wait 12 months.
26:24If you can wait a decade, you're going
26:26to be
26:27above the 1%. If you can wait 10 years
26:29for an outcome, be able to do the doing
26:31without seeing the result
26:33for 10 years,
26:35you will be able to be above any most
26:38achievement of most people.
26:40And if you can wait a lifetime and you
26:42don't even need to see the result of
26:43your doing this even while you are
26:45alive, but know that it may get done
26:48after you pass, then I I believe that
26:50you can change the world. And I mean
26:52that.
26:54And so I think that if people can just
26:55extend the time horizon
26:57that they're measuring themselves on,
26:59they can just do so much more. I mean,
27:00you've probably heard the Bill Gates
27:01quote where he says, "People
27:02overestimate what they can do in a year
27:03and underestimate what they can do in a
27:04decade."
27:05I think it's the same thing. Just
27:06continue to draw it out. And I think as
27:08I've as we've been able to, you know,
27:09achieve more leverage and
27:11make more money, etc., my horizon has
27:14extended. And when I listen to the
27:15people who are the people who I want to
27:16emulate, I can almost tell by the
27:18measurement of money that they talk
27:20about and the measurement of time that
27:21they discuss how successful they are or
27:23how successful I think they're going to
27:24be. Like if I talk to a 25-year-old and
27:26he's talking about what he wants to do
27:27in two decades and his whole plan of
27:28what he's going to do,
27:30as long as he's not just blowing smoke
27:31cuz he's heard an interview from me,
27:33[laughter]
27:33um then I'm like, "This kid's got it. He
27:35gets it. He gets it." And most people
27:37just don't think they could they can't
27:38wait 90 days. They most people can't
27:40even wait a month, right? They start a
27:41diet and 14 days later they don't have a
27:42six-pack and they can't wait. But like
27:44if you do a year, you can look what-
27:45whatever way you want for the most part,
27:47you know, by and large. And if you wait
27:48a year for the ability to learn how to
27:51sell, you wait a year for the ability to
27:52learn how to market, wait a year just
27:54providing value to a group of people for
27:56free and then delaying your ask,
27:59you can do whatever you want.
28:00Now, and I don't know how you're going
28:02to react to this.
28:03If we can separate that idea from being
28:05patient, Yeah. so I made a shirt that
28:08said, "Fuck patience." Okay. But Yeah.
28:11if you're not playing the long game,
28:13you're screwed. So, my thing with
28:15patience is you have to go all out at a
28:18sprinter's pace Totally. and run a
28:21marathon at a sprinter's pace
28:23Yeah. if you want to achieve something.
28:25Yeah. That's where people fall down.
28:26You'll find people that can wait, but
28:29can they, and this is one of my all-time
28:31favorite quotes. I'm pretty sure it's
28:32Winston Churchill, though people often
28:33attribute things to him. Who knows? Uh
28:35success is the ability to go from
28:38failure to failure without a loss of
28:41enthusiasm.
28:42Now, there are people that can go from
28:44failure to failure, but do they lose the
28:46enthusiasm? Can they attack it as hard?
28:48I was telling you at the at the end of
28:50this year, we have a plastic table that
28:51I'm going to smash into little pieces
28:53because it has come to represent like
28:55the hardest thing that I've built in my
28:57professional career. And just all the
28:59[ __ ] problems that have been
29:00associated with it.
29:02And but I'm still going after it as hard
29:05every day.
29:06And when I think about like so because
29:10I've had success and I know how many
29:11people are chasing it and I can just say
29:12people a lot of time it's not going to
29:14give you what you think it's going to
29:15give you. So like don't bother chasing
29:16that kind of success.
29:18So an easy way to say it is
29:20don't worry about winning a championship
29:22ring, worry very much about becoming
29:24capable of a championship performance.
29:27That will be a far more interesting life
29:28cuz you really do do want to get that
29:30good. Yeah. But in the pursuit of that
29:33thing, in getting that good, it's like
29:35it is going to take an inhuman amount of
29:39concentration, willingness to fight
29:42through the pain and suffering, and an
29:44ability to attach enough meaning and
29:46purpose to it
29:47Yeah. that you'll keep going when you're
29:49just getting kicked in the face
29:52[laughter]
29:52over and over. Like it's crazy. And so
29:55knowing how badly people want that, I
29:57want for them
29:59that thing. Like how whatever it is and
30:02and I have a method that I can teach
30:03people how to do it, but most people
30:04still won't do it.
30:06Yeah. Which is to build the desire, to
30:07create an association between the doing
30:11that thing
30:12Yeah. and the meaning and purpose that
30:14you want to have for your own life and
30:16that it's not going to seem
30:17self-evident. You have to bolt it on. It
30:19feels kind of fake in the beginning, but
30:20if you really invest and it really is
30:22something that you care about. It can't
30:23be fake. Yeah. But if it really is
30:25something that you care about and you
30:26build that intense association, then you
30:29can fight through that. But
30:32boredom kills more entrepreneurs than
30:35fear or failure ever will.
30:38When you say boredom, do you mean that
30:40they're starting something and starting
30:41to work and then they just switch
30:43because they're ADD or
30:45No, I mean that doing something where
30:47you don't get the result that you want
30:49and it's 10 years out and you're going
30:51to have to do what Jeff Bezos calls
30:53overhead, right? No matter how much you
30:54love your job, there's always overhead.
30:56There is boring [ __ ] Yeah. And what I
30:58find is people they can't stay on task.
31:01Yeah.
31:01I find in myself a strong desire not to
31:05stay on task because it is boring. It's
31:08just boring. Or even worse
31:11if it feels bad Yeah. and you have to
31:14keep doing it and you have to wake up
31:15every day and face that like this is
31:17really going to be tough and it's going
31:18to be tough for a very an undetermined
31:22amount of time. So it's not even like I
31:23know it's going to be a year. Yeah. It's
31:26there is an unknown amount of suffering
31:28before me and I have to somehow continue
31:31to muster the enthusiasm. And have
31:33faith. Yeah. That this theory that I
31:35have is actually going to work out. Or
31:37that I'll get better, right? That maybe
31:39this theory isn't the right theory, but
31:41I'll be able to figure it out.
31:43It's interesting you say that because um
31:45we talk about need to believe so when
31:46we're thinking about a company that we
31:47want to like invest in and so it's like
31:49what are the you know, we try to have as
31:50few need to believe as possible for you
31:51know, a growth thesis to happen.
31:53Um and then not only do we want to have
31:55as few as possible.
31:56Really interesting. Need to believe like
31:57I need to believe that this is true for
31:59this outcome to be possible. Yeah.
32:02It's really smart.
32:02So how do we have as few of those as
32:04possible and how do we have that those
32:06need to believe statements are as high
32:08likelihood as humanly possible? Right?
32:10So it's like do it like if we had a
32:12business that was reliant on an you
32:13know, an inflationary period or
32:15something. I'd say like, okay, well, I
32:17believe that that's you know,
32:19it's high likelihood that it's going to
32:20occur. Okay, so I feel okay about that
32:21one. And if that was the only thing I
32:22need to believe for this whole business
32:24to be successful, they'd be like, where
32:25do I write a check? Cuz this is the only
32:26thing I need. So it's how many of these
32:28are there, right? And if there's a lot
32:30of them, then with each additional line,
32:32our likelihood of getting the outcome we
32:33want goes down.
32:34Um and so I I that if reversing that for
32:36success for somebody who's coming along
32:37is like
32:39what amount of action would it be
32:41unreasonable for me not to be
32:42successful?
32:43And so for me it's like I I believe that
32:46if you do 10,000 cold calls
32:49you'll you'll get better. Like it would
32:51be unreasonable for you not to be good
32:53like after that level of effort. If you
32:56if you run, you know, if you take half
32:59your paycheck every month or a third of
33:00your paycheck every month and you say
33:01I'm going to advertising university,
33:03which is I'm going to spend money
33:05actually advertising trying to get
33:06people to click on this thing and give
33:08me their name and phone number.
33:09If you go and you spend that amount of
33:11money on actually advertising after a
33:13year, after 2 years, you'll probably
33:15you'll probably be pretty good.
33:17Especially if you join a community of
33:18other people who are doing the same
33:19thing. Right? You see got mentors who
33:21are doing who who have done and can give
33:22you frameworks that you can just work
33:24off so you can shortcut your path to
33:25success. It becomes unreasonable that
33:28you wouldn't be more successful in the
33:29future than you are today. And so I like
33:31thinking about things in terms of
33:32directionally correct rather than will I
33:34hit it or not.
33:35Right? There's so many binaries because
33:37it's easy psychologically for us to say
33:38yes, no, honest, dishonest, etc.
33:40successful, not successful.
33:42Um but it makes making decisions really
33:44hard.
33:45Cuz you're like is this the path for me?
33:47Is this the product the business I'm
33:49going to start? Whereas like
33:52well, if I started something
33:54I would be more likely to be successful
33:56than if I did not start anything. And
33:58from there I will gain experience and
34:00perspective to then make the next
34:01iteration on the main thing and I was
34:04Quest your first thing ever? First
34:06successful thing. But you'd done other
34:08stuff before that and failed. And I I
34:10still I was I was like I hope Quest
34:12wasn't his first thing.
34:13Um most people had Thank God I wasn't
34:15honest.
34:16Most people had a graveyard of failures
34:19before they had their actual first
34:21success. And so most people spent all
34:22this time um
34:24I had a different tweet that went viral
34:25that said like with 20 hours of focused
34:27effort most people can be pretty decent
34:29at something whether it's guitar, it's
34:31singing, even cold calling. If you
34:32actually cold called for 20 hours,
34:34focused effort,
34:36you'd be decent. But most people spend
34:39years waiting to do the first hour.
34:42Woah.
34:43Woah.
34:45And so it's like, how can I decrease
34:47that action threshold and get someone to
34:48just just just embrace the suck? And so
34:50it's like, how can I normalize no's? So
34:53it's like, if I'm teaching somebody to
34:54sell, it's like, "Dude, I need you to
34:55get 100 no's, all right? Let's get 100
34:56no's from me."
34:57I don't care about the yes. Just get 100
34:58no's.
34:59And the thing is all of a sudden if the
35:00if the no becomes the goal, then they
35:02realize that it's about the process and
35:03not the outcome, and then they will
35:04become better sales people cuz they stop
35:05being afraid of it. The same thing like
35:07we're training sales person, I want them
35:08to hear the gasp, right? Which is like
35:10you say a price or with the phone.
35:11Everyone's afraid of saying the price.
35:13It's like, "Dude, if you didn't get a
35:14gasp, you didn't go high enough." Right.
35:16They're like, "What?" I'm like, "Oh, you
35:17failed. Terrible sale. They didn't
35:18gasp."
35:19They're like, "Really?" And so then it
35:21becomes it flips it and becomes a point
35:22of pride. It's like, "Oh, I got her to
35:23You should hear the gasp on this one."
35:24And so all of a sudden they stop being
35:26afraid. We normalize, we do like
35:27exposure therapy on the things that
35:28people are most afraid of. And I hope
35:30that with all the stuff that we do, that
35:31we can do that in a microwave for at
35:32least a handful of people, so they just
35:34start doing and realize that they're
35:35going to gain perspective and the light
35:38of their knowledge will give them the
35:39next foot. But the thing is they're
35:40stuck on the first one trying to pick
35:41the first path when they have no idea
35:43what they're doing.
35:44Was selling ever hard for you? Like the
35:46idea of selling, not that I'm sure you
35:48were bad at it at one point. But was the
35:49idea of trying to convince somebody to
35:52buy something? Yeah, I uh so when I quit
35:54my job, um my dad's buddy was in private
35:58wealth management at Merrill Lynch. And
36:00so he called me up and was like, "Hey,
36:02you should sell for me." And I to this
36:04day, he jokes about it now with me. Um I
36:07said, "Ah, sales?" I was like, "I'm not
36:09a salesman." I was like, "I'm an
36:10academic." You know what I mean? I just
36:12come from a, you know, honors to bones
36:14and I thought I would, you know,
36:14whatever. And um and then lo and behold,
36:17I signed my lease, I slept on the floor,
36:18and I'm and I I was like, "How do I pay
36:20rent?"
36:21And
36:21woman walks in the door, and I was like,
36:23"I need to get her to give me money so I
36:24can pay rent."
36:26And I was like, "Oh, this is sales." And
36:28I didn't know. So, for me it was just
36:29begging people to give me money in the
36:31beginning.
36:31[laughter]
36:32I was like, "I promise I'm going to give
36:33you the best results ever." Um but uh
36:35the idea of sales was very
36:37I I thought it was beneath me. I thought
36:39it was scammy. I thought it was
36:42used car sales, you know, just like the
36:44abhorrent flagrant, you know, that would
36:45be the right word, but um yeah, and then
36:48I through exposure I uh realized that it
36:50was and I ended up I in life's irony
36:52being something that I've really fallen
36:53in love with.
36:55There are there are people on the
36:56internet, I will let them remain
36:58nameless, that they give me the
36:59heebie-jeebies. Mhm. I'm deeply
37:01uncomfortable with something in the way
37:03that they sell, and I've actually never
37:04taken the time to figure out what it is,
37:06and I probably should. I'd make a lot
37:08more money.
37:09But there are people that make me deeply
37:10uncomfortable, and then there's
37:12something about you. So, I'd never heard
37:13of you. Somebody pinged me was like,
37:14"Yo, you need to check this guy out."
37:16And I looked at your stuff, and I'm
37:18like, "There's something about the way
37:19that you talk that is super
37:20matter-of-fact." It isn't the I have
37:23nothing to sell you, because you're an
37:24incredible salesperson. So, even when I
37:27interface with the way that you sell, it
37:31doesn't creep me out.
37:32I've I've not thought about it enough to
37:34know why, but I bet you have. What is it
37:37that makes a salesperson creepy, and why
37:39aren't you creepy?
37:41Uh
37:42why aren't you creepy? The the the best
37:44the best interview question I've ever
37:45had.
37:45Um
37:46so I I I think a lot about this cuz I'm
37:48outlining the next book, which is So,
37:50the next book is leads, and I've already
37:51done the draft, and you know how that
37:52is, where I'm like, "Oh, I'm not done
37:53that book, but like I'm like, I can't
37:54wait for the next book." Um and so I'm
37:56thinking through like what what is it
37:57that that sales is overall, right? It's
37:59structuring a conversation to increase
38:00the likelihood that the person who's on
38:01the other side gives you money. That's
38:03what it is. It's structuring that
38:04conversation that way.
38:05And
38:06Structuring that conversation. I heard
38:08you mention something that you call, and
38:10I I am so only vaguely aware of like
38:12proper sales, but you said holding the
38:14frame. Oh, yeah. Like it's not about the
38:16words you say, it's how you say them,
38:18and whether you can hold the frame. Is
38:19that what What do by structure of
38:21All of it. Yes. I mean So what is what
38:24is the structure? What is holding the
38:25frame? Like what does that mean? So in
38:28I like
38:29I love sales. So
38:32So [clears throat]
38:32when you're when you're when two people
38:34interact in general, no matter what man,
38:36woman, child, whatever
38:38two frames collide. And I believe it's
38:40animalistic, whatever it is. There is a
38:42there's a decision of who's alpha. Now,
38:45the alpha is also contextual. And so you
38:48can be alpha in like the President of
38:50the United States is alpha everywhere
38:51until he goes into a doctor's office and
38:52he tells him to pull his ass and he
38:53sticks his finger right?
38:55Frame. Right? In that room, doctor is
38:58king. Right? He is the alpha in that
39:01setting, in that context. And so the
39:03ability to hold the frame for most for
39:05most sales people is really having a
39:08Sounds crazy. Having a clear agenda and
39:10controlling the conversation, which is
39:13why are we here? Right? Cuz
39:15A lot of sales is clear communication.
39:17Because if you clearly communicate
39:18because the biggest advantage that a
39:20salesman has is that the person has
39:21already said they have a problem most
39:23times. Right? So if someone responds to
39:24a content piece and says, "Hey, can you
39:26help me?" They've already enunciated
39:29they have an issue. They have a problem.
39:30And so you already have the inherent
39:32advantage of the frame, which is you
39:34said you needed help. I'm here. How can
39:36I help you? Right? And so it starts with
39:38that. Right? It's it's being clear about
39:40why we're here. And then we get
39:42agreement that we understood the problem
39:44that they said they had. Next. And then
39:46from that point, we have to turn the
39:47desire into a decision, which is okay.
39:50You say you want these things. Here's
39:52the frame that I want to give you to
39:54analyze the decision. Can we agree to
39:55this frame? Right? And so for example,
39:58if I were selling marketing services and
40:00I So whenever we we rework a sales
40:03script with any of the portfolio
40:04companies, which is one of the things
40:04that we do to make them grow.
40:07A lot of times they have all this
40:08gobbledygook. Right? And so I like the
40:10shortest possible scripts we can because
40:13a lot of communication is wasted. Right?
40:15So what happens a lot of times on a
40:16sales call is they say hello, build
40:18rapport, talk for 30 minutes, see that
40:20there's time that's running out, and
40:21then realize they have to pitch. Right?
40:23And so, then they motor mouth and then
40:24just awkwardly ask, right? And it is, to
40:27your point about it seeming icky, right?
40:29Or sucking, um is that it's not normal
40:33human communication.
40:35And you're not providing value to the
40:36other person.
40:37And so,
40:39if
40:40giving clarity to someone on a decision
40:41is tremendous value.
40:43And so, if you can sell in a way that
40:45clarifies the decision, my objective
40:46always when I teach sales, the goal is
40:48not to get the person to buy. The goal
40:50is to get the person to decide.
40:52And I believe that people don't decide
40:54for only three reasons. And this comes
40:55from Albert Ellis, this is not me. But
40:57people blame
40:58all the woes of their lives on
41:01circumstances,
41:03other people,
41:05and then ultimately themselves.
41:07And so, when we're overcoming obstacles
41:08in a sale, we have to make sure that we
41:11are accounting for the circumstances,
41:13which is taking away time as a reason
41:15they can't do it, taking away money as a
41:16reason they can't do it, taking away
41:17particular aspects of the product as a
41:19reason they can't do it. We have to
41:22make sure that they don't cast their
41:23power to other people and saying, "I
41:25can't make this decision. Someone else
41:26has to make it." And then finally, when
41:27they're with themselves, they want to
41:29avoid the decision. They want to delay
41:30it. They want to not make it. They're
41:31I'm not going to think about it, right?
41:33And so, the idea is that I believe that
41:34if you sell properly, you can talk to an
41:37empowered person. And you have to
41:38basically sift through the crap that
41:40they're telling themselves about why
41:41they can't decide, why they have to talk
41:43to their husband, why uh the
41:45circumstance of their situation matter.
41:48And so, I think that if you can do that
41:49and communicate that in a conversation,
41:51you are you have made someone feel
41:53powerful and you've given them the tools
41:54to make a decision. And then in making
41:56that decision, they take a step towards
41:58the life they want to have.
41:59And so, if you can structure a
42:00conversation that way, it's not icky,
42:01it's value additive, and then ultimately
42:02you do make more money, but you're not
42:04focused on that because you're focused
42:05on helping them make the call.
42:07And if we can do that, you can sell
42:09whatever you want.
42:10And I think that's like that's what I
42:11try and structure, and that's why I'm so
42:12excited for the sales book when it
42:14finally comes out, but most of it's
42:15clear communication. When I listen to
42:17sales calls, cuz I still kind of do it
42:18cuz I like it,
42:19um it's like therapeutic, you know what
42:21I mean? Um
42:22there's so much there's so much waste.
42:25There's so there's not there's no people
42:26aren't direct. It's like, why are we
42:28here? You And someone's like, I just
42:30want to get more information. That's an
42:31obstacle. No, you didn't. You're not
42:33here cuz you want more information.
42:34You're here because you're suffering
42:35from a problem. You don't just hop on
42:36sales calls all day to get information.
42:38No, you're trying to solve something,
42:39right? What are you trying to solve?
42:40What are you in pain from? Got it. So,
42:42let me make sure I understand this.
42:44Label the problem, right? So, it's like
42:45a lot of people just don't know how to
42:47talk, and they just make face noise at
42:48each other, and no one's listening, and
42:49no one's talking. They ping-pong back
42:50and forth. No one actually is listening.
42:52Yeah, they're not communicating at all,
42:54right? They say a statement. I mean,
42:56someone says, I literally just list I
42:58reviewed a sales call yesterday.
43:00Guy says, uh
43:01I'm not sure now's a good time.
43:03Salesman then responds with
43:06uh well, you know, I'm not sure if if
43:08you're a good fit if you're if you're
43:10not sure cuz and it just goes off on
43:12this weird tangent, and then there's a
43:14pause, and the guy just asked another
43:16question. No communication happened. It
43:18was like, I have a question. You just
43:19said a bunch of words, and I guess it's
43:21normal for me to say something else now.
43:23And so, then he just asked another
43:24question.
43:25Right? And so, it's clear like what And
43:28then normally when you overcome these
43:29Sorry, I could talk about this forever,
43:30but like when you overcome these
43:31obstacles where somebody's like, I don't
43:32have time, right? I'll just give you a
43:34simple one cuz this is one This is for
43:36everybody who's listening.
43:37Because right now you're probably not
43:38doing something cuz you're like, I'm too
43:39busy. I'll start when it's convenient.
43:42Whatever.
43:43If you say that as the excuse for not
43:45doing something, then there's an
43:46assumption underlying that that says
43:48that if I get busy again in the future,
43:50I will stop.
43:53And so, do you want the success that you
43:54want to be long-term? Yes. Then do you
43:57believe that you'll never be busy again
43:58for the rest of your life? No. So, then
44:00you might as well start when you're busy
44:01so that you have the most support. Cuz
44:02if you learn how to do it when you're
44:03busy, when you get when it gets quiet,
44:05you'll succeed even more, and when it
44:06gets busy again, you know how to do it
44:08cuz that's how you started.
44:10Right?
44:11Obstacle overcome.
44:12And then, one step closer to making a
44:14decision. And so, what happens is in the
44:16even in the obstacle process when people
44:17are trying to sell stuff,
44:19people start from the outside in. So,
44:21it's so easy to say I don't have time.
44:22It's the easiest thing to say. I don't
44:23have time, I don't have money, right?
44:24And then, once you peel you you you show
44:26them how that's a fallacy. It's a
44:27logical fallacy. It's a distortion of
44:28reality. You peel that back. You get one
44:30layer closer to them. My wife won't let
44:32me. My partner won't let me. My kids So,
44:35you can feel like it's it's closer to
44:36you, right? And you peel that out
44:38because how do you overcome that? Well,
44:415 years from now,
44:42if you didn't do the things that you
44:44wanted to do with your life,
44:46and you blamed your wife the whole time,
44:49cuz she wouldn't let you do it, who you
44:51going to blame?
44:53Her. Is that fair for your marriage? For
44:55your relationship?
44:57What do you think?
44:58Now, so, I think what you're doing is
45:00you're asking for permission instead of
45:01support.
45:02All right? And they should you should
45:03have that conversation with your wife.
45:04Right? So, now we're we're we're sliding
45:06the other side of the table and be like,
45:06let's play this out. Right? It's not
45:08going to go the way you think it's going
45:09to go. Cuz if you keep repeating this
45:10habit, you're going to end up 5 years
45:11from now, you're going to look at your
45:12life the same way you're looking at it
45:13now
45:14and hating it.
45:15And who you're going to blame? Now,
45:16you're 5 years in, you still kind of
45:17like your wife. 5 years from now, you
45:18might not so much cuz you've had 10 more
45:20times you tried to do something she said
45:21no.
45:22So, is today the day, right?
45:23And so,
45:25we peel one layer, and then finally,
45:26you're at a person who's squirming
45:28there, right? Because you you've forced
45:29them to confront reality, which is now
45:32they don't want to make the decision,
45:33right? Cuz they're like, I'm just going
45:34to avoid it, I'm not sure, etc., etc.
45:36And you're like, hold on. Like, I've got
45:37you. You know what I mean? Like, we're
45:38going to get through [laughter] this cuz
45:39you cuz you're just waiting through this
45:41[ __ ] that people tell themselves, right?
45:43And so, finally, when they're in the
45:44avoidance part, the biggest fear they
45:46have is making a mistake.
45:48Right? They don't want to be seen as
45:48stupid. They don't want to lose status
45:50as a result of this decision. And so,
45:52when we're when we're when we're dealing
45:53with that,
45:55it's making them understand that you
45:58don't need time to make a decision. You
45:59need information. And if the only source
46:01of the information you have is me, then
46:03let's talk.
46:04What are the variables you're going to
46:05use to make the decision?
46:06And a lot of people haven't even thought
46:07through that. It's like, well, if you
46:09don't know what they are, why don't I
46:10walk you through four that might be
46:11useful?
46:13Does this thing solve the problem the
46:14way you want it to be solved? Yes or no?
46:16Yes.
46:18Do you want to work with us? Yes or no?
46:20Yes.
46:22Do you know someone do you have access
46:23to the amount of money to get started
46:24with this program?
46:26Yes or no? Yes. Great. Let's do it.
46:29Right? And so you can walk someone
46:30through it and it's like, "Oh,
46:32wow. Like
46:34And like you feel like just one of this
46:35magical journey of like all these things
46:37of why the reason they haven't they
46:38decided not to make decisions, but so
46:40many people are stuck in that same spot
46:42for why they're not taking action,
46:44whether it's selling a product or
46:45selling themselves. And I think that
46:47those frameworks of thinking through
46:48each of those problems and there's I
46:49have a zillion of them for each of those
46:50things.
46:51Um
46:52I had to develop because I used those on
46:54myself.
46:56So I was like, I have to give myself a
46:57compelling reason to start doing stuff.
46:59I have to give myself a compelling
47:00reason to make decisions when I don't
47:02want to. I have to give myself a
47:04compelling reason that I can explain to
47:06a partner of why I made this decision.
47:08Right? Later.
47:10And so by doing that, it decreased the
47:11time between me getting information and
47:14acting, and then it sped up my decision
47:16loop in my life in general. And then
47:17obviously I applied that to sales, but I
47:18applied it to everything.
47:21When I say these beliefs, I don't say
47:22these as a an affront to anyone who
47:24shares different beliefs, to be clear.
47:27Um but for me a very core belief that
47:29has been I think intrinsic to at least
47:31the material success that we've
47:32experienced has been a belief that
47:34meaning is self- ascribed. So that there
47:38is no inherent meaning in the things
47:40that we do um or the actions we take or
47:42the outcomes that happen, uh but only
47:45that which we ascribe to it. Um and so
47:48because of that, I feel like it's
47:49allowed me to the point of what you're
47:51saying about like the amount of pain and
47:52the amount of suffering that you have to
47:53go through in order to
47:55to achieve the things on the other side.
47:56I think it's been able to it's allowed
47:58me to reframe a lot of the discomfort
48:00into what if this just is is how it
48:02always has been? Or what if this is
48:04actually amazing?
48:06And what if this is exactly what it
48:08should look like? And so I think a lot
48:09of times it's the it's the discrepancy
48:11between our expectations and reality
48:12that shape the emotions that we have in
48:16response to any given situation, bad,
48:18good, etc. And so I think a lot of
48:21people can't control their state. And I
48:22we deal with this with a lot of the
48:23portfolio companies is it's like it's
48:26funny cuz I don't even necessarily want
48:27to get into this. I want to talk about
48:28like the business and what's the
48:29strategy and how we're going to execute
48:30the stuff, but you know, there's a big
48:31percentage of time where they're
48:33stressed and they think there's
48:35something wrong with that.
48:36And so I feel like
48:38a lot of people feel like there's
48:40something wrong with experiencing human
48:42emotions.
48:44And so they are stressed and then think
48:46there's something wrong with them.
48:48Or they are sad. And I know this is the
48:50thing that the keyboards are you know,
48:51their their fingers are right on top of
48:53it.
48:54It's my belief. It is contrarian. I
48:56accept that.
48:57That it's it's the beliefs we have about
49:00our emotions that are the things that
49:01drive us mad. Facts.
49:04And so somebody's sad and then they tell
49:06themselves there's that there's they're
49:07bad because they're sad or they're wrong
49:09to be sad or they're a piece of [ __ ]
49:11because they're sad. Um rather than
49:13saying isn't this a beautiful thought
49:14about the human existence? Like if I
49:17could not be sad then I would not
49:19experience joy.
49:20So like if I say that I don't want to be
49:22sad anymore then I would also have to
49:23give up joy. Am I willing to do that?
49:24No. Well then this is just a part. Like
49:27I can't say that I want sunny days if
49:28there are no rainy days.
49:30Like we don't say weather is good or
49:31bad, it just is.
49:33And so I think to the same degree the
49:34human experience is also that way too,
49:36at least how I define it. And so I think
49:38having that is my backbone frame in
49:39terms of my worldview, although
49:41contrarian, has helped me a lot in
49:43dealing with the things that often
49:45derail entrepreneurs on their path to
49:47getting what they want. And so for me
49:49that's been very helpful. So from a
49:50contrarian standpoint of like believe
49:51me, Peter Thiel's question, like what
49:53closely held belief do you have that
49:54most people don't agree with? That's one
49:56of them. Um
49:58I'm scandalized, by the way, that that
49:59one is
50:01something that people don't hold. I
50:03think that people get themselves in
50:05trouble because
50:07uh they believe the opposite of the
50:08following quote, "There is nothing
50:10either good or bad, but thinking makes
50:12it so." Yeah. And they think that no,
50:14there are things that are objectively
50:15good and bad, and I am simply
50:16recognizing the truth. That is that
50:19that's certainly what I struggled with
50:20the most in my own life. Mhm. That I was
50:22simply when I had a negative view of
50:24myself or anything else, that I was
50:25simply recognizing the truth of the
50:27situation. Not understanding how the
50:29belief I had about the thing was
50:31influencing my behaviors. Yeah. And my
50:33behaviors entirely determined my
50:35outcome. And so then I was like, well,
50:37hold on. If if my behaviors are
50:40predicated on my beliefs, and my
50:42outcomes are predicated on my behaviors,
50:44then my outcomes are actually linked to
50:46my beliefs.
50:47Totally. And so I've got to go in and
50:49make sure that I'm believing things that
50:50are effective. [snorts]
50:51And so my whole thing is I only do and
50:54believe that which moves me towards my
50:55goals. Now, the next question that
50:57people ask is, well, then does that mean
50:59that you believe things that aren't
51:00true?
51:01And the answer is unintentionally, no.
51:03Yeah. And the reason it's
51:04unintentionally no is because that to me
51:07something is true based on its ability
51:09to increase your ability to predict the
51:11future and the outcome of your actions.
51:13Yeah. That that's what's true. If I
51:15touch this hot stove, it's going to burn
51:17me.
51:17Yeah. I believe that to be true because
51:19hey, I've touched hot things before and
51:21they actually do burn me. And so when
51:23you can, like in sales, if I structure
51:26the conversation in this way, it's more
51:28likely to lead to an outcome, that thing
51:29is true just because you've run the
51:31experiment enough times to be like,
51:32yeah, that actually gives me the ability
51:35to predict the outcome of these actions.
51:39And when I encounter people that either
51:41don't even know what their own belief
51:42system is, and so they they think, "This
51:46isn't a belief, this just is true about
51:48the world. I'm like, no, that that is a
51:50belief that you've chosen to believe in
51:52and it's completely [ __ ] you up.
51:55One of my favorite quotes, I think if
51:56there were to be a quote that would be
51:57on my tombstone, it's it's
51:59top three, which I've Well, I love a lot
52:01of quotes. Um it's uh Orson Scott Card.
52:03He said uh we question all of our
52:05beliefs except for those that we truly
52:06believe, and those we never think to
52:08question. Yes. And so it's cuz you truly
52:10believe it, and those are the ones Those
52:12are the pesky ones. Those are the ones I
52:14think um I always told her cuz you get
52:16asked a lot, I'm sure, like, "Hey, I'm
52:18going to talk to a mentor. What
52:19questions should I ask them?" And I got
52:21this really good one, which is
52:23what do I believe to be true that isn't?
52:26Whoa.
52:28And so
52:28great question.
52:29Right. And it cuz I'm sure you see it,
52:31and if I talk to somebody, I can tell
52:33like they they cast these views of what
52:35is and what isn't about business, about
52:36marriage, about health, whatever it is,
52:39and they say like and then they and then
52:40they operate off of that framework of
52:43assumptions, which is might be patently
52:45false, and then they wonder why what
52:47they're doing is not working. It's like
52:48because the entire foundation upon which
52:49you built this thing is just wrong.
52:51Right? And so um
52:53the easy you know, the easiest way to do
52:54that is to get people who are ahead of
52:55you who tell you, "By the way, I don't
52:57think that belief is true." But you have
52:58to get in a place that somebody can
52:59actually communicate that to you and be
53:00open to it. Yeah. And then you have to
53:02do something about it, which most people
53:04don't. Otherwise, you get one piece of
53:05advice, and people are like, "Uh
53:07You're not going to do anything with
53:07this?"
53:08Yeah.
53:09Like that That's the hard part. So, I
53:11have the saying Impact Theory University
53:13where I always thought all I would ever
53:15teach is business, and I found that to
53:18get people primed to do the business
53:20part, I first had to deal with all the
53:21lies that they were telling, the
53:22beliefs, la la la.
53:23Like the self-destructive behavior, all
53:25that. Once you could get past that, then
53:28they had an actual shot at running the
53:30business. But because success is the
53:32ability to go from failure to failure to
53:33failure without a loss of enthusiasm,
53:35and the ability to do that is predicated
53:37on the story you're telling yourself
53:38about yourself, your beliefs, la la la.
53:39It It all like this [ __ ] mindset like
53:42Yeah. rats nest of like God, if I can
53:45help you like peel this stuff back,
53:47you'll be able to get out of your own
53:49way, but most people can't. But, it's
53:52really interesting when you were saying
53:53that I was like
53:55part of what makes
53:57like when you hear somebody speak and
53:58they really resonate with you, they give
54:00you the chills, you get excited, it's
54:01because they're either putting words to
54:03something that you felt, but you didn't
54:05know how to articulate, and now it's
54:06super concrete in your mind. Or, they
54:09make you realize you believe something
54:10that wasn't true. Yeah. And that's when
54:13it's like I you feel like you're being
54:14set free. Oh, totally. And that's like
54:18that's really exciting. It's like a
54:19weight vanishes.
54:22That's my That's what I like That's what
54:24I think sales is.
54:25Is that. Is that people have these
54:27beliefs, and you have to know like the
54:29the the process of being a good
54:31salesperson is being able to help people
54:32break the beliefs that they have about
54:33themselves or about the realities that
54:35are not true. Mhm. And so, I think if
54:36you can basically just unencumber
54:38somebody, then it becomes very easy to
54:40sell someone. Because if you have the
54:42struggle, we have the solution. Do you
54:44believe that buying the solution will
54:45get you more likely to get to the
54:47outcome you want? Yes.
54:49What are we doing? Let's go. You know
54:50what I mean? It's But, talking to that
54:52person, you have to wade through all the
54:53stuff. But, like I believe that I'd
54:55like, you know, if I'm speaking to them,
54:56it's like I believe that you could start
54:57a college. Like, you want to do it?
54:59And then you start from there,
55:00right? Like, depending on what someone's
55:01consumed beforehand. Um
55:03but
55:06I'll tell you one of the things that's
55:08that shaped my life in terms of business
55:10stuff is understanding the concepts of
55:12of leverage, right? And so, a lot of
55:14people are limited um by either the
55:17skills, the beliefs, or the traits they
55:18have, right? And so, the skill
55:20deficiency is the easiest one to fix.
55:22It's like, go do repetitions
55:24in a community of people who are also
55:26doing repetitions to learn the same
55:27skill, and you will learn it quickly,
55:29right? That's the thing.
55:31Then you have traits and beliefs, which
55:32is a little bit more amorphous, right?
55:34And so,
55:35from a from a beliefs perspective, it's
55:38you need someone to tell you stories
55:40that you believe to be true that
55:42conflict with your view of reality.
55:45And then their their the evidence of
55:48their story being truer than yours,
55:51then that it's like a frame control.
55:53That frame now wins and then that
55:54becomes the new lens that you see
55:55everything through.
55:56And so, I had a friend who had a fitness
55:58app
56:00and he was doing 20,000 a month. He was
56:01a CrossFit competitor really high up. He
56:03didn't win,
56:04of course.
56:05How like all the It's like he didn't win
56:06so he didn't want to tell anybody that
56:07he had an app cuz he didn't think he
56:07deserved it. He didn't deserve to have
56:09an app cuz he didn't want anyone to know
56:11cuz he's like, "How dare I make a
56:12fitness app cuz I'm I was only fourth in
56:14the world." You know what I mean? Or
56:16whatever.
56:17And
56:18then all of a sudden he talked to
56:19somebody, he got over it, and then he
56:21just started just telling people he had
56:22an app and he went from like 20,000 a
56:24month to $100,000 a month. And so, it's
56:26not that his skills changed. It's not
56:27that his traits changed. He was still
56:29just as hard working, same looked the
56:30same, etc. I was like, "It's just his
56:31beliefs."
56:32Right? And I'm sure in the in the
56:34entrepreneur space, one of the most
56:35common traits is is focus. Right? People
56:38can't do the same thing over and over
56:39again. They just do all these half-built
56:41bridges. And so, I know for me my big
56:44explosion happened in my entrepreneurial
56:45journey when I went from having nine
56:47businesses. That is not a not a
56:49misspeak. Nine as in one less than 10.
56:52At the same time that I was CEO of All
56:55Love. So, I had a I had a I had a dental
56:57agency, marketing agency, I had a
56:59chiropractor marketing agency. I had gym
57:01launch where we'd fly out and do gym
57:03turnarounds. And then I had five gyms of
57:05my own. Jesus. At the same time.
57:08And I was somehow perplexed as why I
57:10wasn't making any money. I was There's
57:12like everything was always on fire all
57:14the time and I always just sold my ass
57:16off enough to be able to pay all the
57:17bills and have nothing left over. That
57:19was the That was how I rocked it.
57:21Um and it was only, you know, when Leila
57:24came in and she was like,
57:26"You know,
57:27I think
57:28maybe if we just did one thing, you
57:31could win." Cuz she was like, "Imagine
57:33She was like, imagine if all you had to
57:35do was make one of these businesses
57:37work. How easy would that be?" I was
57:38like, "Oh my god, if I only had to make
57:39one of them work, it would be a joke."
57:40And like I heard myself say that and I
57:41was like, "You're an idiot.
57:43[laughter]
57:44Why are you so dumb?" And so like the
57:45trait that I was missing at that point
57:46was focus.
57:48And or discipline. I couldn't say no. I
57:50didn't have that muscle. So that was a
57:51trait I lacked. And so it's like boom
57:53and then that blew up. And so it's like
57:54sometimes the question is which of these
57:56things do people lack? Um and so since
57:59we don't always know cuz we don't have
58:00the perspective to judge ourselves
58:02often, it's like you just got to keep
58:04moving in all of the directions getting
58:05those communities and then like that's
58:06ultimately Like I'm a big believer in
58:08the alternative education space. The
58:09whole guru space that everyone you know,
58:11laments and and hates. Um
58:14I learned
58:15everything from that space.
58:17That's going to go away. There's always
58:19going to be fake people that people will
58:21be dismissive of, but we're just in a
58:23weird transitional moment now where
58:26traditional college is people are
58:28beginning to realize
58:30A, some of these degrees are dubious at
58:33best. And then B, and here's the thing
58:35that breaks my heart.
58:37Yeah.
58:38A teacher 99 times out of 100 has gotten
58:41good at one thing, teaching. Yeah. So
58:43people are like, "Why don't they teach
58:44us this in high school? Finance,
58:45mindset, whatever." And I'm like, "Cuz
58:47they don't [ __ ] know." Like they
58:48can't do it in their own life. God bless
58:50them. There are so many things that like
58:52I'm terrible at.
58:53Yeah. And so I feel their pain. They've
58:56gone down the path of being an educator
58:57and so what they know how to do is
58:59educate, but they don't necessarily know
59:01finance, mindset, whatever. And if they
59:03did, they would be off doing those
59:04things. And so getting somebody who's
59:06expert at that stuff to teach is next to
59:08impossible until now. Like when I grew
59:11up,
59:12you had to go to the library to like
59:15find a quote or something like that.
59:17Right. It It was insane how hard it
59:20would be just to find a cool quote. You
59:21would literally just like find, okay,
59:23this philosopher and you'd flip,
59:24anything cool on this page? Flip,
59:26anything cool on this page? And then you
59:27would find something. You'd have to
59:28build like a whole argument around the
59:30quote you could find is crazy.
59:32So, nowadays, you're able to get Like,
59:36when I stop and think, okay, hold on.
59:38I've been in business now for 20 plus
59:39years. I've had an incredible career
59:41already and feel like I'm just getting
59:43started. And I pour my heart and soul
59:46into teaching everything I know as fast
59:48as I can [ __ ] talk, and people can
59:51get access to that with a few clicks on
59:53the internet. Like, that's bananas. And
59:55so, enough people that have a real track
59:58record are going to put courses together
1:00:00that then help people go on to have a
1:00:02career. You know one of the things that
1:00:03happened recently? I had this like big
1:00:04epiphany moment, so I'll I'll share it
1:00:06with you, but I was I was talking to
1:00:08Caleb, my
1:00:10video my my man.
1:00:12Um,
1:00:12and he was like, you know, I've I'm a
1:00:15competitive person.
1:00:16And so, I look at the the Grants and the
1:00:18Garys and stuff. I'm like, I'm like,
1:00:19man, by the time I'm their age, I was
1:00:21like, I'm going to be way ahead of them.
1:00:23Right? And I think it was Caleb who said
1:00:25it back to me. He's like, yeah, he's
1:00:26like, yeah, but
1:00:27Gary didn't have Gary. Mhm.
1:00:30I like it like really like hit me,
1:00:32right? And so, I think that there is
1:00:36cuz, you know, there's Gen Z that's
1:00:37coming up and whatnot. There's always
1:00:38these disconnects and there's there's I
1:00:40don't see wars. There's conflict between
1:00:42age groups, etc. And the old guys are
1:00:45like, these kids don't know what I had
1:00:47to go through. They've got it so easy,
1:00:49right? And these guys are like, these
1:00:50guys are
1:00:50what I was just saying 3 minutes ago.
1:00:52These guys are out of touch, right? But,
1:00:54the flip side is that if you ask an
1:00:55entrepreneur what his goal is, he's
1:00:56like, the work make the world a better
1:00:57place, to have an impact, etc. And it's
1:00:59like, well, if you want to make the
1:01:01world a better place, doesn't that mean
1:01:02the next generation has it easier?
1:01:06Like, doesn't that mean we did our job?
1:01:08And so, there's this this this
1:01:10competition that I used to feel towards
1:01:12like the older classmen, if you know,
1:01:13like think about it like entrepreneurial
1:01:15grades. I used to be like, I'm going to
1:01:16be further, faster, whatever by that
1:01:18time than that guy is. But, lo and
1:01:21behold, those guys helped me. So, of
1:01:24course it would make sense that I get
1:01:25there faster. And like I'm sure you've
1:01:27seen like there guys in their in their
1:01:29mid-20s with nine-figure companies that
1:01:31and they're killing it. And that wasn't
1:01:33it just wasn't I don't want to say it
1:01:35wasn't possible. It was extremely
1:01:37extremely extremely unlikely 20 years
1:01:40ago. Right? But because of the access to
1:01:42information, the information's out
1:01:44there. And so somebody who's 26 can have
1:01:47the experience of somebody who's 60
1:01:5020 years ago. So, they can be as good at
1:01:52the game, real talk, as good at the game
1:01:54as somebody that much older. And it's
1:01:55because they've had Warren Buffett
1:01:57videos they've been able to watch
1:02:00their whole high school about finance
1:02:01and investing and Charlie Munger talking
1:02:03about character traits and all these
1:02:04things that you wouldn't have you didn't
1:02:06have. You know what I mean? Like you
1:02:07might have the shareholder letter and
1:02:09that's all you got and you just had to
1:02:10keep rereading it, right? And so
1:02:13anyways, it's been a really interesting
1:02:14shift for me to also think about the
1:02:15fact that
1:02:17a lot of times we think like I want to
1:02:18be the greatest of all time. I'm sure a
1:02:19lot of people do. Right, whatever.
1:02:22But,
1:02:23if I did my job, I won't be.
1:02:27Cuz somebody else will be better than me
1:02:28if I did my job. Yeah. And so that was
1:02:30like a really interesting point that I
1:02:32feel like shifted inside of me in terms
1:02:34of like competition and thinking like
1:02:36I shouldn't be competing against these
1:02:37guys who are ahead of me. I should be
1:02:39thanking them because of course I'm
1:02:41going to be there sooner or faster than
1:02:43them. I was like because I had them and
1:02:44they didn't have them.
1:02:46They were just figuring it out.
1:02:48Because you should want to [ __ ] crush
1:02:51all of them, right? Me included.
1:02:53Dude, you're on such a rad pace. And
1:02:56here's the thing, the older guys owe it
1:02:57to themselves
1:02:59to to be thrilled that business is a
1:03:01sport that you don't have to age out of.
1:03:04So, my knees going bad doesn't [ __ ]
1:03:05matter in business, man. And I should be
1:03:07able to capitalize on all the things
1:03:09that I know and all that. So, I should
1:03:11be able to keep going until I run out of
1:03:13desire to do all this. But But thing is
1:03:15I don't want people to give up on
1:03:17competition. So, I used to be afraid of
1:03:18competition because I sucked and I
1:03:20didn't think I could get better. So,
1:03:21with a fixed mindset, competition was
1:03:23not interesting. I I there's only one
1:03:26thing that I've ever gotten a
1:03:27disproportionate return on and that is
1:03:29speaking. So, I've always been highly
1:03:32verbal. Yeah. But
1:03:34when I was coming up
1:03:35how do you do something with that? Yeah.
1:03:37I didn't want to be an actor. So, it was
1:03:39like
1:03:40there wasn't a lot of avenues. It's
1:03:42obviously changed and I've been able to
1:03:43capitalize on that, right? Now that once
1:03:45once I had something to say and a
1:03:48camera, I wasn't an idiot. I'm like, I
1:03:50am so verbal, I will perform very well
1:03:52on camera. That was highly strategic.
1:03:54Nobody should feel bad for me. So, it's
1:03:56like, cool. I got to finally leverage
1:03:57that talent. So,
1:03:59I love that the Young Bucks are coming
1:04:01up. Yeah. It feels so rad. My whole
1:04:04thing is, I have had to learn everything
1:04:05the hard way. It's just the way that I'm
1:04:07wired, whatever. So, it stokes me out to
1:04:10be able to go, "Okay, I learned this
1:04:12through blood, sweat, and tears, a
1:04:13massive amount of pain and suffering.
1:04:15I'm going to tell it to you as fast as I
1:04:17can [ __ ] talk. Yeah. I'll do it for
1:04:18free. Like, yes, I have my paid [ __ ]
1:04:20but I'm also like, it's not like I'm
1:04:22holding anything back right now. Yeah.
1:04:23So, I will give people all the
1:04:25information and my hope is that you come
1:04:26up, but be aware, I want to compete.
1:04:29Yeah.
1:04:29to be on the field. I want these young
1:04:31guys who think they can shark and job.
1:04:32I'm like, all right, [ __ ] like
1:04:33we're in this. Let's go. Yeah. But it's
1:04:35a light energy. It's an expansive
1:04:37energy. Like, if somebody beats me,
1:04:39passes me, whatever, cool. I'm all for
1:04:41it. As long as you're down for me to be
1:04:43on the field and go
1:04:44Yeah. as I can and want to win and
1:04:46constantly push myself, like it's fun.
1:04:50Because I no longer one, I know what
1:04:52success is and people end up trapping
1:04:54themselves thinking it's money, all that
1:04:55[ __ ]
1:04:56Yeah. Ha ha ha. Like, they have a very
1:04:58painful awakening coming their way,
1:04:59which I had to live through. And then
1:05:02also, it's like being able to play Yeah.
1:05:05is fun, man. And so, if you lose sight
1:05:08of the fun and you're just worried like,
1:05:10oh, is somebody better than me? are they
1:05:12outperforming me, whatever.
1:05:14You're going to miss out. I would see
1:05:15the the um the both sides of it, right?
1:05:18You've got the guys who are ahead who I
1:05:20used to be like, I'm going to do all
1:05:22this, right? And the guys behind them
1:05:23like, they're so lucky, right? If only I
1:05:25had, right? That that thinking. And I
1:05:27feel like at least it was just that that
1:05:29little quote like, Gary didn't have
1:05:31Gary. Like that thought process for me,
1:05:33I feel like for me
1:05:35like my competitive drive is never going
1:05:37anywhere. Like it's going to be there
1:05:38forever. But the I feel like I was able
1:05:40to It was more like doing honor to the
1:05:42game that I'm going to bring to
1:05:44transform my potential into reality and
1:05:47drag it by the [ __ ] balls if I have
1:05:48to to make it happen.
1:05:50Like it was more to honor the game and
1:05:53all the other players in it. Yep. Rather
1:05:55than me trying to like and it almost
1:05:56felt small-minded to be like, why am I
1:05:57going to pick this guy to compete
1:05:59against? Like how about just
1:06:03doing a service to the game about being
1:06:06an excellent player.
1:06:09I love that. As long as you don't lose
1:06:10sight of the whole Kobe thing, like what
1:06:12made Kobe so interesting to me was that
1:06:15he was just die hard, dude. And so I'm
1:06:18not a sports guy, so never really
1:06:19thought about Kobe like that, but I was
1:06:22so inspired by the way he would talk
1:06:24about things. I never got to meet him,
1:06:26which I'm absolutely mortified by, but
1:06:28the way he talked about everything, I
1:06:29was like, wow, what a [ __ ] competitor
1:06:31like and as I had gotten older and
1:06:32really learned power of competition and
1:06:34being willing to put myself out there
1:06:36and go for broke and like really find my
1:06:38limits, right? And I want to die. Like I
1:06:41I can already tell you just the way that
1:06:42I'm wired, I will be horrified by the
1:06:46the personal limitations that I have
1:06:47because we all do. We're 50% hardwired,
1:06:5050% malleable. I'm going to do the most
1:06:52that I can with my malleable. I'm
1:06:53already traumatized by my limitations,
1:06:55[laughter] right? But like, you know,
1:06:57I'm going for it. But so watching Kobe,
1:06:59I was like, damn, like I'm so inspired
1:07:02by the willingness to push yourself that
1:07:04hard to see like, what do I have in me?
1:07:08Yeah.
1:07:09And then that [ __ ] went from
1:07:10basketball into my arena and he came
1:07:12into film.
1:07:14And his first film, he won an Academy
1:07:17Award.
1:07:18Now, I was like, this [ __ ] guy. But I
1:07:20was so inspired, right? And so I may be
1:07:23misinterpreting what you're saying, but
1:07:24what hits me is Caleb's comment took it
1:07:27from maybe a bit of a dark energy to
1:07:30like, "Oh, that's actually pretty rad
1:07:32Yeah. I had an advantage that he didn't
1:07:34have it makes me appreciate the game,
1:07:35makes me want to play with honor and
1:07:37honor these guys.
1:07:38So it becomes this expansive thing. But
1:07:40I would expect you to dunk on me if you
1:07:42can, right? And then be like, "Help me
1:07:44up, bro. It's worth the All-Star game,
1:07:45you know, it's all good. Like we both
1:07:47[ __ ] made it." But [laughter] at the
1:07:48same time like Yeah. I'm going to be
1:07:50trying to dunk on you, you know what I
1:07:51mean? Yeah. But like with a smile and
1:07:53like a handshake and the way that you
1:07:55hear like the guys that were on that
1:07:56first dream team Yeah. talk about each
1:07:59other and like repping the country,
1:08:00which is to me what you say when you
1:08:02want to honor the game. It's like, "Hey,
1:08:04we're [ __ ] repping something in that
1:08:06case America, Yeah. basketball, Yeah.
1:08:09but we're here to win, Yeah. but we're
1:08:11also here to have fun. Yeah. And like
1:08:13that's my thing. And what I always tell,
1:08:15whether you're trying to be an
1:08:16entrepreneur, a better parent, whatever,
1:08:18is you've got to optimize for the game
1:08:21still being fun when you're losing.
1:08:23Yeah. If you can't have fun when you
1:08:24lose, oh man, my heart bleeds for you
1:08:26because you're going to lose so often.
1:08:28It just is what it is. Yeah. Even people
1:08:30that win, you just lose so many times,
1:08:32whether it's a just a lead funnel that
1:08:34didn't work or you go up on stage and it
1:08:35[ __ ] bombs, whatever. But there's
1:08:37going to be a lot of losing in your
1:08:38career. It's like Jordan's whole thing
1:08:40about I've lost this many games, taken
1:08:42this many winning shots and missed a
1:08:43lot.
1:08:44And I succeed because of all of that,
1:08:46right? So you've got to be able to have
1:08:48fun in the loss because I can guarantee
1:08:50the struggle. I can't guarantee success.
1:08:53So you've got to be able to love that,
1:08:54but if you love that, there is something
1:08:56about going for broke that I'm so
1:08:59honored by even though that means that
1:09:01people are gunning for me. Yeah.
1:09:04It's worth it.
1:09:05It's funny cuz when I think about that,
1:09:06I think about game theory in general,
1:09:07which I'm sure you're
1:09:09su- very familiar with, right? And so,
1:09:11it's um it's shifting from like the
1:09:13finite to the infinite um perspective.
1:09:15And so, like how do you win at business?
1:09:18You win by not stopping. Yep. Like from
1:09:20an infinite from an infinite, you know
1:09:22what I mean? And so, um
1:09:24that's always been one that's that's
1:09:25been interesting to me. But, I'm I'm
1:09:27super open to uh to what you're saying
1:09:29with the uh the competitiveness piece.
1:09:32Um
1:09:33and I probably share some of the similar
1:09:35things to you of I guess when you were
1:09:37younger or at least my age, right?
1:09:38Um
1:09:40trying to trying to take the good of
1:09:43competition and to cast out the bad of
1:09:45competition. And so, trying to like
1:09:46separate those things. And I think this
1:09:48has been part of my attempt at doing
1:09:50that is reframing the game in that way.
1:09:53Um
1:09:54and trying to look at it from the
1:09:55infinite perspective of like there is no
1:09:57number one.
1:09:59Like there like is it is it because
1:10:01because if you're saying number one, you
1:10:02say of what year? Over what time
1:10:03horizon?
1:10:04That's exactly right. Right. Is it by
1:10:05what metric? Is it by your net worth? Is
1:10:07it by cash flow? Is it by age age by net
1:10:09worth by per unit of time? You know what
1:10:11I mean? If Warren Buffett had died at
1:10:1274, no one would care. Right. And let me
1:10:14give people the punchline. All that
1:10:16matters is how they feel about
1:10:17themselves and they buy themselves.
1:10:18That's it. Please, only chase that.
1:10:20Yeah. Now,
1:10:21[laughter]
1:10:21when you're chasing that at at a grand
1:10:23scale, it's amazing because you're like,
1:10:25"Whoa, here
1:10:27dude." Yeah. I'm so curious to to see if
1:10:30you agree with this. So, here's my whole
1:10:32thesis on life. So, first of all, chase
1:10:35fulfillment. It's the only thing that's
1:10:37stable across joy and pain. Yeah,
1:10:40process. Yep. And then,
1:10:42the best thing that life has offer you,
1:10:45the [ __ ] best. There is no emotional
1:10:48peak higher than the following.
1:10:50You're working really hard at something.
1:10:53And it's working. Yeah. And if you pull
1:10:55this off, there there's huge upside.
1:10:58Yeah, yeah. That moment, it's better
1:11:00than the actual huge upside. Like the
1:11:03the moments in my life where I'm like
1:11:06climbing up this perilous cliff. I'm
1:11:09[ __ ] looking down, my fingers are
1:11:10just ice cold, right? And I'm I'm just
1:11:13clinging, but I'm like, "Fuck, I'm
1:11:14making good progress. Like I've really
1:11:15come a long way. I can see the peak.
1:11:17It's not that far. And if I get up
1:11:19there, there's like a crazy Vegas buffet
1:11:22and an orgy." And it's like, "Oh my god,
1:11:25if I [ __ ] get there, this is going to
1:11:26be the best."
1:11:27Yeah. It's actually better than the
1:11:29buffet and the orgy. You know what I
1:11:31mean? It's like it's that moment where
1:11:32you're like your fingers are freezing,
1:11:33but you're going to make it. Like that's
1:11:35the [ __ ] juice. And so, hey, enjoy
1:11:38the food, enjoy the orgy. They're
1:11:39incredible. But I promise as soon as
1:11:42they're over, you're going to be like,
1:11:43"Where is that next thing that I can get
1:11:45my [ __ ] fingers freezing to death
1:11:46again?"
1:11:47It just is. That's the human condition.
1:11:49And when people understand the game,
1:11:52when you understand that I can never
1:11:54take a drink so thirst-quenching that
1:11:57I'll never need another drink again.
1:11:58There's no meal so amazing that you'll
1:12:01never be hungry again. There's no sex so
1:12:03good that you'll never want sex again.
1:12:04You just That's just the way the human
1:12:06animal is wired. Like when people are at
1:12:08peace with that, Yeah. Ah.
1:12:11Like then now you've really got a shot
1:12:14at loving your life, understanding the
1:12:17cycles, and that you're going to keep
1:12:19doing the climb, and so you better love
1:12:21the climb.
1:12:23Love the uh
1:12:25the the moment before the moment.
1:12:28That was I like I was I was thinking as
1:12:29you were saying it, I was thinking back
1:12:30to like the few of those moments that
1:12:32I've had. Like the first time, you know,
1:12:33you start running ads and like you start
1:12:35getting your first leads. You're like,
1:12:36"Holy [ __ ] it's working." Like it's
1:12:38that, you know what I mean, that moment.
1:12:39Or the first I remember uh when I got uh
1:12:42I hired my first sales person and they
1:12:44closed the sale and I wasn't there. So
1:12:46it was the first person that had made me
1:12:48money who wasn't me. Yeah. And I was
1:12:50like I pulled over to the side of the
1:12:51road and I teared up cuz I was like
1:12:54it doesn't have to just be me anymore.
1:12:56You know what I mean? And so like I've
1:12:57I've just thinking about all these these
1:12:58moments that I've had.
1:13:00I remember when we were Leila and I were
1:13:02sitting over the the kitchen counter and
1:13:04we had just switched from
1:13:06flying out a sales team in person to do
1:13:08these turnarounds to switching the
1:13:10licensing and
1:13:12um
1:13:13I got on the phone to tell the guys who
1:13:14I was going to launch the next month
1:13:16that we weren't going to do that
1:13:16anymore. We're thinking about switching
1:13:17directions. And so I said, "Hey, you
1:13:19know what? I can't do it but I'll
1:13:21I'll tell you how I do it but I'm not
1:13:22flying out there anymore." And they're
1:13:23like, "Oh, that's fine. How much?" And I
1:13:25didn't want to do it so I picked a super
1:13:26high number. And then
1:13:29uh which was $6,000 at the time. And the
1:13:31guy said yes and I was like, "Oh." And I
1:13:33remember the moment being like, "Holy
1:13:35[ __ ] What just happened?" And I had
1:13:37seven more calls a day and like that day
1:13:39I made like $60,000.
1:13:41And I had just been
1:13:43un- like the story I was talking Let's
1:13:44go full circle. Like I'd just been
1:13:46completely broke and like in that moment
1:13:48like Jim Launch hadn't been created yet.
1:13:49There was you know, all these other
1:13:50things but in that moment I was like
1:13:53"What if this keeps happening?"
1:13:55Like are we out of it? Like did like did
1:13:58we finally is this the one thing that's
1:14:00finally going to get me out of like
1:14:01failure after failure after failure
1:14:02after failure? And so it's just like
1:14:05what is the what is the event that gives
1:14:07you the biggest predictor of the future
1:14:09success?
1:14:10So like there's micro wins of like hey
1:14:11the funnel's working. I've got leads.
1:14:13And then you have like a day of huge
1:14:15sales. You're like, "What if this
1:14:16happened every day?" And then maybe you
1:14:17exit Quest. You're like, "What if I exit
1:14:19five more times?" You know what I mean?
1:14:20Like So anyways, I was just that was
1:14:22really cool for me just even thinking
1:14:23through like those those those snapshots
1:14:27of moments.
1:14:28Yeah, it's very incredible and you start
1:14:30to learn like okay, what is it that I
1:14:33really love? Yeah. And so for me when we
1:14:36were at Quest and selling it and it was
1:14:38huge and it changes your life and I mean
1:14:40it was really banana and here's going
1:14:42back to money. So Quest ended up being
1:14:45two bites of the apple. There was like a
1:14:47first bite where we took a small
1:14:49investment, but the valuation was so big
1:14:50it it was life-changing. That was the
1:14:53the biggest like, "Oh my god" moment
1:14:56because I went from uh my wife and I
1:14:58share one car. It's a beat-up Ford Focus
1:15:01with a leaky exhaust, borrowing rides
1:15:02off my employees
1:15:05who had nicer cars than me, the delayed
1:15:07gratification and all of that.
1:15:09Going from that to I now have a Beverly
1:15:11Hills mansion, that was the crazy
1:15:13moment. When I went from my starter
1:15:15mansion to my big mansion, that wasn't
1:15:17as cool. It wasn't as neat of a moment
1:15:19even though it was actually a bigger
1:15:22dollar amount change, it wasn't as like,
1:15:26"Whoa, I really feel this change."
1:15:30And then thankfully I learned actually
1:15:32when I was still not really making
1:15:34money. On paper I was worth $2 million,
1:15:36but I learned very quickly A, the
1:15:38money's not making me feel better about
1:15:40myself which I secretly thought it
1:15:41would.
1:15:43And then also there's a big difference
1:15:44between paper money and real money.
1:15:46But I learned that lesson. So I never
1:15:49tied my sense of self-worth to the money
1:15:52or anything like that which is something
1:15:54I constantly remind myself now not to
1:15:56let my identity get tied up in that
1:15:58because the world reflects that back to
1:16:00me all the time. Right? So whether it's
1:16:03um
1:16:04"Oh, you sold a billion a company for a
1:16:06billion dollars" or "Amazing house" or
1:16:09even just "Oh my god, like what you've
1:16:11built socially, it's incredible." It's
1:16:12like I have to really disconnect from
1:16:15that cuz I'm like all of that is
1:16:17transient.
1:16:18It's all transient. I've no idea if any
1:16:20of it will be here tomorrow. So it's
1:16:23like you have to be really thoughtful.
1:16:26What is it you think about yourself when
1:16:28you're by yourself?
1:16:30What do you think about that? Like now
1:16:31you've been on both sides of the coin.
1:16:33You've changed your physique which is a
1:16:35big thing, but you changed it so early
1:16:38that I wonder how do you think about
1:16:40yourself? What's your self-image?
1:16:45What's it anchored to?
1:16:49I don't know. It's a vast me.
1:16:50It's a I don't know. I think it's um
1:16:53unless I'm unless I'm misunderstanding
1:16:55the question, but you know, for me it's
1:16:58I think a lot of my definitions have
1:16:59been defined by my actions.
1:17:01And so I am the person who has done
1:17:04these things and I will do things that
1:17:07will get me closer to the things that I
1:17:08want to achieve.
1:17:10And so a lot of my definition of self
1:17:12has always been based on evidence. And
1:17:14so I think it was harder for me in the
1:17:16beginning because I didn't have evidence
1:17:18to support what I hoped to be true about
1:17:19myself, which at the time wasn't.
1:17:22And so if
1:17:23did you hope to be true? That you could
1:17:24figure it out or was it always a result
1:17:28that you associated it to? I mean, it
1:17:30was I want to make more money than my
1:17:31dad. You know what I mean? That was That
1:17:33was the thing, you know, for me and that
1:17:34was That was all I needed, you know what
1:17:36I mean? I didn't I didn't have There was
1:17:38I remember thinking
1:17:40uh
1:17:41in college cuz I you know, you know,
1:17:43you're young in college and it's like be
1:17:45happy and all that stuff and I just
1:17:46remember being like [ __ ] happiness. And
1:17:48that was like a moment for me. I was
1:17:49like [ __ ] happiness. I don't care about
1:17:51happiness. I want to do this.
1:17:53Um
1:17:54Why didn't you care about happiness?
1:17:54That's very counterintuitive even now,
1:17:57super counterintuitive at that age.
1:17:59Yeah. Um because I was obsessed with how
1:18:02not happy I was. Mhm. And so in
1:18:05But so the things you were doing that
1:18:06weren't designed to make you happy,
1:18:07that's what's weird. So I was I was so
1:18:10obsessed with like positive psychology
1:18:11and I was reading all this stuff and
1:18:12watching these TED Talks. I remember the
1:18:13whole I remember this whole period of my
1:18:14life. Um and I was constantly assessing
1:18:18my mood as a determination of whether I
1:18:20was happy or not. And it became so
1:18:21obsessive that I was just like [ __ ] all
1:18:23of this. I was like I'm just going to do
1:18:25[ __ ] And
1:18:27that's all. I was like I'm just going to
1:18:29do [ __ ] and hopefully it works out.
1:18:31And Did you ever define what works out
1:18:34means? If it isn't happiness
1:18:36Be less unhappy, I would say was my my
1:18:38thought process which which is like I'm
1:18:40just going to do the things. And so I
1:18:42shifted from a lot of introspection,
1:18:45internal mood regulation and thinking
1:18:48and stuff and I
1:18:49think a lot of the reason that I have
1:18:49the world views I have about, you know,
1:18:51emotions and whatnot have come from this
1:18:54kind of initial experience. So it's like
1:18:55I had that and then I just started
1:18:58working and then I found myself
1:19:00actually looking up after, you know, a
1:19:03decent period of time and like, you
1:19:04know, I'm actually I haven't thought
1:19:06about happiness in a long time.
1:19:09And
1:19:10I think I might be.
1:19:12And so I also don't really like the word
1:19:13happiness cuz it's circumstantial versus
1:19:15joy, but like I experienced joy
1:19:17significantly more now than I did then
1:19:20when I was younger and I think it's
1:19:21partially because like you can be
1:19:22mournful and joyful
1:19:24both at the same like So like if someone
1:19:26imagine someone like
1:19:28it's like an appreciation of the human
1:19:30experience.
1:19:31Like this is terrible, but like even
1:19:33like
1:19:35even in the suffering there's beauty in
1:19:37that.
1:19:38You know what I mean? Because it's
1:19:39purely human. Yeah. And so I think it
1:19:42was disconnecting
1:19:43that that it matters to me as well, but
1:19:46I've never had to articulate it. What
1:19:48what is the connection to like the human
1:19:50experience that is so
1:19:53valuable that it's joyful even in
1:19:56mourning?
1:19:56I think it's just understanding both
1:19:57sides of the coin. I feel so like so
1:19:59like if there's few things that I
1:20:01believe it is that is that like
1:20:04I right now there you know, there's
1:20:06things in my life that I don't like that
1:20:07I wish were better and there are things
1:20:08in my life that I really like and, you
1:20:10know, 10 years ago it was the same way
1:20:11and 10 years from now it'll be the same
1:20:12way. And when I die there will be stuff
1:20:14that I will not have accomplished that I
1:20:15will wish I had. There will be things
1:20:17that I wish I had done better that I
1:20:18will not have done and there will be
1:20:20things that I have done that I am proud
1:20:21of. And so like those things are not
1:20:23going to change and so if
1:20:25the only thing I It's I mean this sounds
1:20:27hopefully not overly trite, but it's
1:20:28like all I can do is just enjoy the
1:20:29game. And it took me a really long time
1:20:31to get there. Like it took me a really
1:20:33long time to get there. Or at least it
1:20:35felt that way or at least it felt like I
1:20:36suffered a lot on that process.
1:20:38Which is why I have a heart for people
1:20:39who are like, "Dude, I'm you know, I'm
1:20:41super sad, I'm super depressed, whatever
1:20:42it is." And it's cuz I judged myself so
1:20:44much on not being happy all the time
1:20:46because I thought there was something
1:20:47wrong with the fact that I wasn't happy
1:20:48that I drove myself insane not being
1:20:50happy rather than just being like, "You
1:20:52know what? Maybe I'm just going to do
1:20:53the stuff and just [ __ ] happiness for a
1:20:56minute." And so I think it's like when
1:20:58we have these like happy? Am I not
1:21:00happy? I think my my opinion is that you
1:21:04you have to rise above it
1:21:06so that you can just see you can feel
1:21:07the spectrum which is just being
1:21:09present. Cuz I think again, Alex's two
1:21:12cents,
1:21:13um haven't been around that long. Uh
1:21:16if you are present, you can you're
1:21:19present. Like most people aren't present
1:21:20ever. And so it's like if I can just be
1:21:22present even in my suffering, I'm there.
1:21:25Right? Then I can experience joy for
1:21:28being human and having this experience
1:21:30that I only get once. And
1:21:33the biggest frame shift that I've had in
1:21:34terms of my experience of living has
1:21:36been so it's it sound it sounds weird,
1:21:39but it's
1:21:40so we'll call it the grandfather frame,
1:21:42which is I learned how to become
1:21:44apathetic. Right? Like cuz that that
1:21:46took that took me time to stop feeling
1:21:48pain by
1:21:49the brain tries to predict the next word
1:21:50somebody's going to say? Apathetic was
1:21:52not the word I was expecting. You had to
1:21:53learn to be apathetic.
1:21:55I cared so much about everything. Care
1:21:56about what everyone thought, cared about
1:21:57what I like like I cared about what
1:22:00everyone thought. And I probably still
1:22:01do, just less. You know what I mean? I
1:22:02still do care, just less. Right. And so
1:22:05the frame of the veteran taught me that,
1:22:06which is if this negative thing were to
1:22:08happen a thousand times over and over
1:22:09and over again, how would I feel on the
1:22:11thousandth time? Well, probably not that
1:22:13bad. Well, why don't I just choose to
1:22:14feel that way now? Right?
1:22:17And so that really helped me a lot, just
1:22:19the frame of the veteran. Right? Whether
1:22:20it was traffic, whether it was a
1:22:21breakup, whether it like whatever it
1:22:23was, I could apply the like if I got
1:22:24broken up with every single day for a
1:22:25thousand straight days, Mhm.
1:22:27how much would it bother me? Well,
1:22:29I'd still be here, you know? Okay.
1:22:32And then I was like, is there a way that
1:22:33I can think of a frame that would allow
1:22:34me to feel gratitude? Cuz it's something
1:22:36that I've I've I've struggled to feel,
1:22:37right? Like I definitely get the dry
1:22:39feeling. Got that one done.
1:22:40In spades, but gratitude not so much,
1:22:42right? I've done the the habits and
1:22:44things like that and for me it didn't
1:22:44work.
1:22:45I say it doesn't just for me. And so
1:22:48I thought of this frame which was I call
1:22:50the grandfather frame, but
1:22:52waking up, if I went into a time
1:22:53machine, I'm 85 years old, right? I'm
1:22:55like close to dying, little creaky, you
1:22:57know, I've got tons of money, not a lot
1:22:58of time.
1:22:59And I somehow sacrifice all the money I
1:23:01have just to be my age again. So I wake
1:23:04up in the morning and I'm my 85-year-old
1:23:07self living through my 30-year-old body.
1:23:11And thinking through that frame of how I
1:23:13would wake up and be like, oh, my elbows
1:23:15don't hurt. Oh, look, I have muscles. I
1:23:17haven't had those in forever. Right? And
1:23:19I look at I'm like, oh, Layla, she's so
1:23:21young. I remember she used to look like
1:23:22this. And I look outside and I'm like,
1:23:23man, this is Vegas before they did all
1:23:26the helicopters and the flying cars. I'm
1:23:28like, look at it. God, it's changed so
1:23:30much.
1:23:31Right? Then you walk downstairs, you get
1:23:33your like, man, coffee. Ah, look at
1:23:35these mugs. Remember we had mugs? Isn't
1:23:37that crazy? And so it's this weird frame
1:23:40where it just drills you to it just pegs
1:23:43you to the present.
1:23:44And you get to experience the current
1:23:46state from a future state
1:23:48for the first time.
1:23:49And so it's been one of the things
1:23:50that's been really profound for me in
1:23:51terms of like dealing with stressors,
1:23:53with getting into like when I get into
1:23:54these like I'm like, hold on.
1:23:57I'm 85. I'm waking up. I'm like, all of
1:23:59a sudden, I'm like,
1:24:00I remember when I used to stress about
1:24:01these business things. I was like, it
1:24:03works out. It's fine. And if it doesn't,
1:24:05who cares? I was like, I'm going to be
1:24:0685 and I'm going to die and I'm going to
1:24:07give all my money away. Who cares?
1:24:09And so and I'm like, but isn't this cool
1:24:11that I'm like, look at me all trying to
1:24:13play the game, you know? I'm like, you
1:24:14got it, bud. And so it's like it gets me
1:24:16into this really interesting place where
1:24:18I can feel like I can get above myself
1:24:20in the game and just be like,
1:24:23And I I I think for a lot of people if
1:24:25they can
1:24:26Those frames have served me very well.
1:24:28And I hope that other people can use
1:24:30those in some way in their life to do
1:24:31stuff that they weren't otherwise going
1:24:33to do. Um so anyways, that was the
1:24:35That's my my two frames that have served
1:24:37me well. Dude, frames of reference is
1:24:40everything. This is actually what
1:24:41started Impact Theory in the iteration
1:24:45that it became.
1:24:47So, I'm at Quest and I've got a thousand
1:24:50employees who grew up hard in the inner
1:24:51cities. But intelligence is evenly
1:24:54distributed, right? So, just like you
1:24:56have dumb friends in
1:24:57an upper-middle-class neighborhood,
1:24:58you're going to have dumb friends in the
1:24:59inner city. But just like you have smart
1:25:01friends, you're going to have smart
1:25:02friends.
1:25:03And so, there were plenty of people I
1:25:04was like, "Damn, like you are smart."
1:25:07Yeah. But your frame of reference is
1:25:09stupid. Yeah. And the way that you view
1:25:11the world is so ineffective, meaning it
1:25:15doesn't move you towards your goals or
1:25:16your goals are idiotic. Yeah. And and
1:25:19and I mean that it If your goals lead
1:25:20you to suffer and you don't want to be
1:25:23suffering Yeah. I I would say it's very
1:25:25plain your goals are idiotic. So,
1:25:27anybody that that wants to write in the
1:25:29the feed that, you know, "Oh, you can't
1:25:31judge somebody by their goals." Yes, I
1:25:32can. Very much so. Uh because you either
1:25:35have goals and you're moving towards
1:25:36them or you don't and you're not.
1:25:38And so, I'm looking at it and I'm like,
1:25:40"Wow, this is a mindset problem. This
1:25:42isn't a an intelligence problem. You
1:25:43have the ability to process raw data,
1:25:45which is how I'll I'll say intelligence
1:25:47is."
1:25:48And they have that.
1:25:50But the software that they use to
1:25:52process that raw data leads to such a
1:25:54bizarre frame of reference for how the
1:25:57world works or what they're capable of
1:25:58that their behaviors become ineffective.
1:26:00Yeah.
1:26:01So, I was like, "Okay, so the thing I'm
1:26:04going to try to do is help people change
1:26:06their frame of reference." Now, I use
1:26:08two really potent frames of reference
1:26:10for me. Mhm. One is very similar. So,
1:26:13I'll use a um
1:26:15a deathbed frame of reference to say,
1:26:17"Okay, how will I think about this? Now,
1:26:18I don't get trapped though because I
1:26:20don't live for my deathbed. I think
1:26:23that's a mistake and I think a lot of
1:26:24people optimize for something they're
1:26:25going to go through maybe it lasts a
1:26:27week, maybe it lasts a year, but it it
1:26:29isn't the bulk of your life. And so to
1:26:31over optimize for that I think is a
1:26:32mistake, but to get the perspective of
1:26:34like, oh my god, I remember when I used
1:26:36to stress about that like, come on, this
1:26:37doesn't mean anything when you're facing
1:26:38your mortality. So, that's super useful.
1:26:42Um and then the other frame of reference
1:26:45that I use is the brain in a vat. All
1:26:47right. And so I'm like, imagine that
1:26:49you're just a brain in a vat and that
1:26:51this thing you're really stressing cuz
1:26:53normally you're going to be worried
1:26:54about something that that um happened or
1:26:56you're obsessing about something that
1:26:57happened and what makes you think about
1:26:59or it could be the future, but either
1:27:00case you can't change either of them.
1:27:03Cuz one's not real and one's in the
1:27:05past.
1:27:06And I was like, what if this thing that
1:27:07I'm really worried about that's already
1:27:09happened that I can't change is really
1:27:10just context for this brain in this, you
1:27:13know, vat living in a simulation to just
1:27:16to get you moving and that all these
1:27:18memories that are trapping you, they are
1:27:21fake.
1:27:22And there's something about that that
1:27:23lets me off the hook. I don't need to
1:27:25beat myself up over it. It's just a
1:27:27frame of reference, it's context to get
1:27:28me moving. And then I remind myself I
1:27:31actually am just a brain in a vat. It
1:27:32just happens that the the vat is the
1:27:35chemicals that, you know, my brain is
1:27:37sitting in and the glass of that jar is
1:27:39my skull and so all of this really is a
1:27:42simulation even if it's it's an accurate
1:27:45simulation, it's a simulation
1:27:47nonetheless.
1:27:48And I won't derail the whole
1:27:50conversation on that, but like it's it's
1:27:52very easy to recognize that the world
1:27:55really is a simulation because reality
1:27:57is a number of photons falling on an
1:27:58object, but you perceive it as color or
1:28:01whatever, not math. And so
1:28:05putting myself in either of those like,
1:28:06hey, this isn't really going to matter
1:28:08at some point and oh, that thing that's
1:28:11creating your sense of identity, it
1:28:12could be made up anyway. I don't think
1:28:14it is, but like it's very helpful to
1:28:16remind myself that
1:28:18those are malleable things.
1:28:22That's been
1:28:24I mean, when we started the
1:28:25conversation, it was like, why do you
1:28:27think people
1:28:29aren't successful? Why do you think
1:28:30people fail? And it's I think it comes
1:28:33down to those things. It's like it's the
1:28:34it's the fear of photons that fall on an
1:28:38object that prevent people from starting
1:28:41or when they do get hit one time,
1:28:43extrapolate that out till their deathbed
1:28:46and say, I will fail forever and
1:28:47therefore I will not continue.
1:28:49And so, I think that those like those
1:28:51frames are the things like if there's
1:28:52things that I would take with me until I
1:28:54die, it would be the frames cuz like you
1:28:56can lose it all and then you like if you
1:28:58lost everything tomorrow, you'd be back
1:28:59in 12 months. You know what I mean? Um
1:29:02I feel like that's I remember when I
1:29:04lost everything the
1:29:06second time.
1:29:08[laughter]
1:29:08Um and I you know, I just lost all the
1:29:11the gyms and all the money and
1:29:12everything and I it was just like
1:29:13thinking that that was the thing that I
1:29:15had lost
1:29:16rather than the thing that I had gained
1:29:18that was non-material being the more the
1:29:20more valuable of the two.
1:29:22Um that was like one of my big lessons
1:29:25and I feel like you obviously have far
1:29:26more of those than I do, but that that
1:29:28one stuck with me. It's interesting. I
1:29:30have a a slightly different belief based
1:29:33on all that or at least way that I look
1:29:34at it, which is if I lost everything
1:29:36tomorrow, I might not ever gain it back.
1:29:38Mhm. It's entirely possible. Now, I
1:29:40think I have a set of skills, I'm never
1:29:41going to worry about money and all that,
1:29:43but
1:29:44I really life has taught me that I
1:29:46cannot guarantee myself the success
1:29:48because I failed multiple times at
1:29:50businesses. So, it isn't like, oh, it's
1:29:52guaranteed because I've had a success
1:29:54before. It's guaranteed I'll never go
1:29:55hungry barring head trauma, but it is,
1:29:59you know, it's it's an unknown and
1:30:01that's why I'm very careful not to let
1:30:03that be my identity or like I don't know
1:30:05if you've ever read Stephen King's book,
1:30:07The Stand?
1:30:08I haven't read that one. Oh my god. So,
1:30:10there was this thing I'm so glad I read
1:30:11this when I was a kid because so, one of
1:30:14the main characters is a guy who's just
1:30:16finally gotten famous as a singer. Yeah.
1:30:19And this is back I read this probably
1:30:21late '80s. So,
1:30:23getting famous was like the most insane
1:30:26thing you could do. Getting rich was far
1:30:28easier than getting famous. And so, he
1:30:29finally got famous. His song's
1:30:32everywhere on the radio and then the end
1:30:33of the world happens and nobody cares.
1:30:35And I remember thinking, "Whoa. Like,
1:30:38you could achieve that thing, the
1:30:41impossible thing, and then the next day
1:30:42it's just gone." And so, especially at
1:30:45the moment we're living in now where
1:30:46there's a lot of uncertainty, I'm just
1:30:48like, "Don't tie your sense of worth or
1:30:53uh the thoughts you think are um useful
1:30:56because they have resulted in wealth.
1:30:58The thoughts that I think are useful
1:31:00because they have resulted in
1:31:01fulfillment." That's the thing like I
1:31:03really want people to anchor around.
1:31:05Um but yes, I certainly take the point.
1:31:08Transparently, I'm probably not there.
1:31:10Like, I don't think I've like, I'm not
1:31:12I don't think I
1:31:14I don't think I'm as optimized on that
1:31:15as like you are. I think you have more
1:31:17of that than I do in terms of like
1:31:19optimizing around fulfillment. Mhm. I
1:31:21think I still definitely still have a
1:31:23degree of my self-worth wrapped in
1:31:26the things we do and the companies we
1:31:28own and stuff like that. Like, I if all
1:31:30of those
1:31:31Cuz the thing is like, if in the magic
1:31:33situation where that all vanished, it
1:31:35would
1:31:36there would be something that I had
1:31:37probably done wrong. Now, there are
1:31:38occasions, you know, where you own a gym
1:31:40business in COVID
1:31:42um where you're like, "Man, there's some
1:31:43stuff that would it be reasonable for me
1:31:44to have predicted this? Probably not.
1:31:46Okay, I'm not going to beat myself up
1:31:47over this one." But like, if barring a
1:31:49true act of God situation and there were
1:31:51just good old-fashioned I'm the only one
1:31:53who loses everything and everyone else
1:31:55doesn't, right? Um
1:31:57I probably would be upset. Um I'd be
1:32:00upset.
1:32:01I'm not [laughter] a monk.
1:32:03I just I remind myself to yeah. Yes,
1:32:07totally.
1:32:08You're like, "How do you judge yourself
1:32:09when you're when you're naked in the
1:32:09mirror at night?" I'm like, "Well,
1:32:11uh on that day, I would feel
1:32:13badly. You know, it's just not feel
1:32:15good."
1:32:16100%. But anyways, um
1:32:19Dude, so I've got the final quote that I
1:32:21want to share with people
1:32:23that is my favorite quote from you, but
1:32:25first I want you to tell people where
1:32:26can they follow you?
1:32:28Um
1:32:29[sighs and gasps]
1:32:29if you listen to podcasts, you can just
1:32:32search my name, Alex Hormozi, and you'll
1:32:33find The Game. Uh if you are on YouTube,
1:32:36you can search my name and you'll find
1:32:37my YouTube channel. If you're on TikTok,
1:32:39Instagram,
1:32:40they're all those places. Twitter,
1:32:41actually I'm super active on Twitter. Um
1:32:43you can find me there just by searching
1:32:44my name. Amazing. All right, now I want
1:32:47to give people a quote. Ah God, I love
1:32:49this so much.
1:32:51"Do not cast power to your excuses. Own
1:32:54your circumstances because no one else
1:32:57will."
1:33:01So,
1:33:03I think the difference between like rich
1:33:05people and poor people, successful
1:33:06people and not successful people is the
1:33:08degree to which they attribute
1:33:11or give power to their circumstance,
1:33:12right? And so, the difference between a
1:33:13self-made
1:33:15billionaire who started with nothing and
1:33:17someone who also started with nothing is
1:33:18not the resources, obviously, cuz they
1:33:20both started at zero. So, what else is
1:33:22it? Is their resourcefulness, not the
1:33:24resources.
1:33:25And so,
1:33:27um
1:33:27if we give power to circumstance, then
1:33:30we cast power outside of ourselves. If
1:33:31we give power to other people, we cast
1:33:33power outside of ourselves.
1:33:35Um and so, it's you know, it's
1:33:37controlling the controllable. Uh and
1:33:40when I you know, when I say that quote,
1:33:41a lot of that is is how that quote is
1:33:43how I see selling.
1:33:45It's people cast power to their
1:33:47circumstances, and my job is to get them
1:33:48to unfuck themselves around the power
1:33:51that they have just cast to something
1:33:52they cannot control. And so, if I can
1:33:54just get them to own
1:33:56even just own the fact they suck.
1:33:59That's good enough because they actually
1:34:01can own it and there is pride in that.
1:34:02You can take pride in the fact that you
1:34:04admit that there is a deficit, right?
1:34:05But there is The only thing you can't
1:34:06take pride in is casting and being a
1:34:08victim. All right, like no one moves
1:34:09forward. Even if you're right, it
1:34:10doesn't serve you. Right? If you're born
1:34:12with one you know, one less leg than you
1:34:14should, you're right. You're not going
1:34:16to be You have a disadvantage at being a
1:34:18sprinter. Like you have a disadvantage.
1:34:22But it doesn't serve you in any way to
1:34:24admit it.
1:34:27And so it's it's owning the fact that
1:34:29like you are the only person who can
1:34:31actually change anything about your life
1:34:33because you may blame your
1:34:34circumstances, but no one else will
1:34:35care.
1:34:36I love that.
1:34:38Speaking of ways you can change your
1:34:39circumstances, if you haven't already,
1:34:41be sure to subscribe. And until next
1:34:42time, my friends, be legendary. Take
1:34:44care. Peace.
1:34:45My default place is to do this. I think
1:34:48you have to know yourself. I think if
1:34:49your default is to not do those things,
1:34:51then yeah, giving yourself a break and
1:34:53being kinder and gentler is the absolute
1:34:55worst thing that you could do to
1:34:56yourself. In my case, man, it's been a
1:34:58lifetime. I was never a child. I was
1:35:01never a little boy. That 5-year-old I
1:35:03was literally not a child.

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