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How Ramesh Damani Built Generational Wealth — Transcript

by Shrishti Sahu · 15,416 words · 2,085 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00is someone who seriously wants to get
0:01invested and take up stock market
0:03investing as a career option where
0:05should they start look at the investing
0:07as a business and the stocks you buy as
0:09you're buying a piece of the business
0:11not a price action a good investor is
0:13one who knows the value of everything
0:15and the price of nothing perhaps but
0:17most investors know the price of
0:18everything but the value of
0:21[Music]
0:28nothing choice and learn to
0:34[Music]
0:40compound someone in their 20s and 30s if
0:42they were to get a road map of how to
0:44become the future Mr
0:49[Music]
0:53the so you want to make all your
0:55mistakes early in life and then get it
0:57right as someone who's dealt with and
1:00seen many highs and lows of the markets
1:02how have you built that resilience to be
1:04able to
1:08[Music]
1:15write the fact is the equity markets go
1:17up spend more time up than down the
1:19trick is to case like raak J if he had
1:23paid more attention to his health
1:25different story work life balance is
1:26good if you're working in a corporate
1:28job you're trying to build a business
1:29trying to build something substantial I
1:31think this is all idiotic talk you need
1:32to work work work what are you going to
1:34do work like balance you got to build
1:35something that your children will be
1:36proud of that you can look up let
1:38say so if you start say when you're 30
1:41and you retire when you're 60 that gives
1:43you a 30-year window in your life and if
1:46you get 10 doubles in that time you
1:48actually make thousand xra wealth that
1:49you started with so my urge to younger
1:52investors is to
1:54buy hello and welcome everyone to the
1:57India opportunity show I'm your host
1:59shrishti my guest today is a legend
2:01someone who I deeply respect and admire
2:03and someone who actually helped me get
2:05started with my investing journey in
2:07equities and stock markets for the first
2:09time today it was a very special moment
2:11for me to host him on the show because
2:13he's been a dream guest for me ever
2:15since I started Mr Rish the Mani we talk
2:17about patience long-term compounding
2:20stock selection how to identify sectors
2:22that are actually at the cusp of
2:24breaking out and he talks about his
2:26mentors like Warren Buffett Charlie
2:28Munga Peter Lynch and also rakes junjala
2:31and RK danani with his unmatched ability
2:34to find long-term investment
2:36opportunities Ramesh is not only Built a
2:38True Legacy but has also inspired
2:40countless of Indians to start their
2:42investing Journeys and I hope you enjoy
2:44watching this today you know honestly I
2:46started investing in equities because of
2:48you and RJ so I have to credit you for
2:50that and I think it's the same for
2:52thousands of Indians today who started
2:54their Journeys in the stock market
2:56because of you so thank you those are
2:58such kind words sisan I'm so so happy to
3:00be a part of your journey and thank you
3:01so much for inviting me on your show
3:03again thank you so much uh rames when
3:04you started 30 years ago you felt uh
3:07like you were late to the India
3:08opportunity and at that time the market
3:10cap was roughly around $1 1110 billion
3:13doar and today we are sitting at $4
3:15trillion and some people might have the
3:17same feeling that you know we are late
3:19to the India party but I've always heard
3:21you say that India's next decade is
3:24going to be the best one so what are
3:25your thoughts about India's next 30
3:28Years fascinating question uh start off
3:30with I did feel that actually when I
3:32came to India in the ' 89s there was a
3:35big boom in cement stocks at that time
3:36and I was a freshman MBA I knew nothing
3:39about cement companies so I thought
3:40maybe the boom has passed me by without
3:43realizing it was just the tip of the
3:44iceberg that the next 30 Years would be
3:46more exciting and now as I come full
3:49circle as I have aged um I ask a lot of
3:52my peers what has been the best
3:55investing decade for them was it the uh
3:58'90s when India liberalized was it 2000
4:00technology boom was it 2014 when n Modi
4:03came into to be and almost to the person
4:05they tell me that the next decade is
4:06going to be the more exciting one so
4:08don't get disheartened if you missed out
4:10the great rise from 800 sensex to 80,000
4:12SX I think the next 10 years we'll
4:14unpack a lot more excitement can you
4:16help us Envision what India will look
4:18like 30 years from now you know we talk
4:20about this vixit bat becoming an
4:22emerging market and I think one of the
4:24things I learned very early in the stock
4:26market uh by my early you know early
4:29experence experiences is that uh the
4:31past is not necessarily prologue what
4:33happened in the past doesn't necess
4:34happen in the future so for example I
4:37grew up in the ' 89 uh I came of age in
4:40' 89 I grew up in the
4:426070s and the India that I grew up in
4:45very static India going at 3% socialist
4:48economy inward looking not believing in
4:51trade not the very very best of us went
4:54out to America to work in other jobs
4:56because the pay was better so you always
4:58had a static of the Indian economy that
5:01nothing will change out here but the
5:03Berlin Wall fell in 1989 and after that
5:06all the countries were forced to change
5:09and I think India also changed along
5:10with it so my generation became the
5:13golden generation the lucky generation
5:15because you could take advantage of the
5:17liberalization that offer we came of age
5:18in 8990 just as India was liberalizing
5:21so you took great advantage of that so
5:23the last next 30 Years very exciting
5:25India India emerged in the global
5:27economy the tariffs were going away m
5:28sing gave a liberal budget so India has
5:31come a long way so I realized very early
5:32on that the past is not proled that the
5:35future can be different so when you look
5:37at the stock market look at the
5:39windshield look at don't look at the
5:40rearview mirror in order to figure out
5:42what's happening uh in the world so I
5:44think when I look in the windshield I
5:46think this is a very exciting time in
5:47India India is making rapid strides in
5:49terms of digitization I always call it
5:52the 3DS that are propelling India in the
5:54future one is D for digitization one is
5:57D for demographics and one is D for Dem
5:59democracy I think the cocktail of these
6:01things are pushing India forward I think
6:0420 30 years from now a lot of the
6:06scarcity mindset that we had as Indians
6:09growing up a lot of the inferiority
6:11complex we faced as young students when
6:14he went overseas and had no money I
6:16think will all vanish I think this
6:17generation of India growing up will be
6:19very lucky because they will not they
6:21will have the self-confidence and not
6:22the inferiority complex that sometimes
6:24we have to deal with you know I was
6:25listening to this podcast by R Alo today
6:28in the morning where he was talking
6:29about while promoting his new book that
6:31America can actually go broke or America
6:34is at the brink of bankruptcy does that
6:37uh will that cause a shift in Global
6:39Order in your opinion basically
6:42questions above my pay scale but let me
6:43tell you something that I feel very
6:45strongly about uh one of my passions in
6:47private life is to follow the US uh
6:50presidential U politics because that's
6:53my passion I follow that very closely uh
6:57every president since FDR in 1932 recent
7:00Trump election I followed and read and
7:02been very interested in and I've never
7:04seen a situation as we experiencing now
7:08where US president is going to become
7:11not the last emperor in China as the
7:12famous movie said but the first emperor
7:14of America he has almost unbridled power
7:17he has a congress he has a senate he a
7:19supreme court and he's a popular mandate
7:21and he knows how to wield the power in
7:23one week he's already shown that he's
7:25going to use American power and American
7:27influence to run rough sh of Colombia
7:30run rusher of Panama run rusher of that
7:32has never happened America's always been
7:34a system of checks and balances of
7:36dialogue of agreements and there's an
7:38old saying by rard Kipling which says
7:40what does he know of Britain only
7:41Britain knows and I'll paraphrase that
7:43to say what does he know of America who
7:46only America knows so while America
7:48Trump might have a pulse of the American
7:50people because he clearly won an
7:51election he doesn't understand the role
7:53America played in shaping the modern
7:55world the institutions it created the
7:57bilateral institutions it created the
7:59global Iz ation created it's such a
8:01dynamic economy could handle any
8:03immigrant coming in any exports to that
8:05country and all of us prospered so the
8:08rules-based system that the world has
8:09known is perhaps about to change so I do
8:13feel a bit cautious about that what was
8:16the vibe in uh during that budget when
8:19you were there on the stock flow when
8:21Manmohan Singh announced those reforms
8:23oh it was crazy I mean you know it was I
8:25think it July 24th 1991 uh I think in
8:28retrospect India changed that day I mean
8:30that was just uh you can economic
8:33historians will write the period the
8:34history of this period they will say it
8:36was pre 1991 and after 1991 and I think
8:39he recently passed away and I'd like to
8:41pay tribute to Dr Singh I I think the
8:43India that we live in today is in a
8:45large part due to the absolutely iconic
8:48measures uh that he undertook and I
8:50think you understand life uh you live
8:53life forward but you understand it
8:54backwards I don't think we clearly
8:56understood the impact of what he did at
8:57that time but it's a change country
9:00thanks to the policy framework that he
9:02done in 1991 I mean uh we understood was
9:05something big we didn't quite understand
9:07how big it was yeah absolutely and you
9:09know Warren Buffett always talks about
9:11an investor should think about having a
9:14punching card with 20 holes in it and
9:16you really need to get just four or five
9:18right uh in terms of decisions to be
9:20able to get really rich or create
9:23generational wealth and you also have
9:25several examples of that in your
9:27portfolio but which are the top four
9:29five which you would pick as your top
9:31Investments do the test that said have
9:33only 20 Punch Cards is almost superum
9:36task because we're always in front of a
9:38screen always an idea floating by so I
9:41don't think I've been able to meet up to
9:42that standard but one thing I have
9:44learned that the various bull markets we
9:46had in India we had a bull market in 92
9:49we had a bull market in 2000 bull market
9:52in 2004 and then the nendra Modi bull
9:54market began 20145 so you had four bull
9:56markets each bull market must make you
9:58stronger and if you can identify the
10:00leadership in a bull market you'll end
10:02up making the maximum amount of money
10:04for example 92 was L by cement stocks
10:06everyone know 2,000 by the tech boys
10:082004 by the real estate the consumption
10:10stocks 2014 by the India liberalization
10:13story India became a middle class story
10:16there so each bull market you need to
10:18try and identify the leadership in the
10:19bull market and try to build a position
10:21in that leadership and that will
10:23probably make you the best money uh over
10:25time so I've been very fortunate because
10:27I pay a lot of attention to these things
10:29so by '92 we completely got wrong
10:32because I was new I didn't understand
10:33what cement was going on by 2000 I
10:35figured out this trick that the new hes
10:37for new courses new bull markets with
10:39new leadership so he bought into the
10:41technology stocks in 2000 we bought into
10:43the consumption stocks in 2004 and this
10:45time of course we bought the public
10:46sector stocks which all have worked out
10:48magically yeah and you know you are
10:50always somehow able to identify which
10:53are the sectors which are about to turn
10:55and I remember this famous interview of
10:57yours where you know you spoke about the
10:59liquor industry at that point and also
11:01the then the defense industry what
11:03emerging sectors are you most personally
11:05excited about today the first the
11:07question is how do you identify that
11:08thing I think Warren Buffett has started
11:10that very closely that you're never
11:12right or you're never wrong because the
11:13crowd agrees with you or disagrees with
11:15you yeah you're right because the facts
11:17are with you and the reasoning is with
11:19you and that I've taken to heart I try
11:21to do my own work is very important in
11:23this business to do your own
11:24intellectual thinking absolutely you
11:26know a a bad investor is one who knows
11:28the price of everything but the value of
11:30nothing a good investor knows the value
11:32of a business that he evaluates and I
11:34think I've always try to do that because
11:36I've learned that from some of my peers
11:39that you uh is is how Rahul davit batted
11:42he took each ball on his merits so you
11:44take each ID on his merits you don't try
11:45and go with the her go what's popular or
11:48do what's fashionable you involve each
11:51ball in its merits so I think we we
11:53tended to do that uh where do I find
11:55excitement for the next 20 30 years in
11:57India I think this is still an ongoing
11:59bull market it's been a very steep
12:00correction but I think it's just a
12:02correction so the public sector stocks
12:03will still continue to leave the market
12:05higher I think they're very interesting
12:06opportunities even today in the
12:08financing companies and the construction
12:10companies within the public sector
12:12stocks but another sector that I become
12:14quite bullish upon is what I call the
12:17digital sector in India because uh you
12:20know we've gone to use a cartoon example
12:21from the Flintstone age to the Jetson's
12:24age that is from The Rock age to the
12:26Space Age basically India was an analog
12:28country you know we had physical phones
12:31we had a physical Marketing System and
12:33before our very eyes it has been
12:34transformed to digital country and we
12:36become leaders in digital whether it's
12:38in payments whether it's in kyc you far
12:41ahead of other Western countries also in
12:42digital PIR now all that digital
12:44infrastructure uh digital layout require
12:47digital infrastructure so companies that
12:49are prospering by providing those
12:51Services I think it's a good area to
12:53look at yeah I think this similar Trend
12:55we saw in the '90s in the US as well
12:57right where the tech stocks pretty much
12:59displaced the banking retail fmcg stocks
13:02in the top 10 indices and then you know
13:04it's been The Magnificent Seven which
13:07has conquered the IND this index in some
13:09way I mean some I think from what I read
13:12they now seven stocks are 30% of the SNP
13:15500 market cap 40% now after n which is
13:18an alltime high you know which is you
13:20know very difficult you know to remember
13:22such a concentration of what's going on
13:24it is a bit dangerous to you uh such
13:27concentration in seven companies if you
13:28will but I think India has not reached
13:30that stage yet so I think the digital
13:32infrastructure layout will be a good for
13:34R pickings and you know a lot of
13:36Founders also watch this show uh so if
13:39someone was to pick a sector where they
13:41want to build a startup in which are
13:43some of the sectors that you think would
13:45potentially become those kind of
13:46opportunities for India are there any
13:48sectors that you particularly feel
13:50excited about in the startup world I
13:52mean my job is not necessarily to try
13:54and find a new business but try and bet
13:56on people who found the new business so
13:58I more at uh you know an entrepreneur
14:01but also we want to make sure that the
14:03business is well valued that it's not
14:05very expensive I think you can give n
14:07number of examples of a great business
14:09that continue to do well but it was
14:11valued so high that stockholders didn't
14:12make any money so I think that the you
14:15know people who invested in the
14:16railroads after they were found didn't
14:18make any money or there were so many
14:20airlines that went bus or so many car
14:21companies I think America had 500 car
14:23companies they're down to three so you
14:25know you don't necess make money just
14:26because an industry is going to do well
14:28you have to find a business that is well
14:29valued so I spend more of my time trying
14:31to find that valuation and value
14:34mismatch the gap between intrinsic value
14:36and stock market value and try to profit
14:39from that and it's a very important
14:40lesson to learn in the market just
14:42because something is new or exciting or
14:44a shiny bright object is to say won't
14:46necessarily make you money yeah
14:48absolutely what do you think about the
14:49new age Tech IPOs which have happened
14:52the valuations a bit fraud for me so I
14:54think the market is well into this hype
14:56of AI well into this hype of you know
14:59e-commerce businesses and all that I
15:00would be happy bet on those because they
15:02are good digital models that will happen
15:04but I some of find some the valuations
15:07are a bit stretched so I'm a more
15:09cautious investor so I I rather wait my
15:11chance they're good businesses they're
15:13just not good valuations absolutely and
15:15I think price is the most important
15:17criteria that you have always
15:18highlighted and talked about valuations
15:20yes valuations yes uh so when you think
15:23about uh you know taking a contrarian
15:24bet because a lot of young people also
15:26don't understand how to really hone in
15:29on their skills when you in your 20s and
15:3030s you also filled with so much
15:32self-doubt that you can't really feel
15:34feel very confident about investing and
15:36going all in in one opportunity right so
15:39how does one become a contrarian thinker
15:41how does one train their mind to become
15:42a contrarian thinker it's very important
15:44to do that uh but it's what I told you
15:46what Warren Buffett taught us that uh
15:48and a lot of my work and speech comes
15:51from Buffett and buers please excuse
15:52that because I'm very I'm unabashed
15:54admirer of the investing philosophy so
15:57which I told you earlier that you're
15:59never right or wrong because the crowd
16:00is with you you're right or wrong
16:02because the facts and the reasoning are
16:04with you okay so if you do the facts and
16:06reasoning you do your homework I think
16:08you'll be able to find uh good ideas to
16:11play on for example to give you idea of
16:13contrain bet the recent example of the
16:15public sector stocks that worked out so
16:17well for the investors the early
16:19investors in defense and Railways if you
16:22look through those companies they were
16:23trading at .1 times aut book fiveyear
16:28visibility PE of five and div yield of
16:315% you know the only question was that
16:33if these guys have a party and no one
16:35shows up what are we going to do you
16:36know but the market doesn't work like
16:38that typically when uh the earnings come
16:40through you know the party starts
16:42happening in the market and these
16:43companies have delivered earnings year
16:45after year and what has changed that
16:47what the market missed perhaps in that
16:49is the corporate governance in these
16:51companies have changed I think when
16:53Narendra modi's Administration came into
16:55part he decided that he's going to fix
16:57corruption and fix the Cor governance
16:59and issues so all these companies have
17:01got a dramatic change and investors are
17:03got unaware of that because that
17:05typically happens you use the old jaded
17:07view what I said using the pastest proo
17:10what happened in the past will happen in
17:11the future but I have had very good
17:13experience with the public sector stocks
17:15even going back to the '90s when manmon
17:17Singh was uh the Finance Minister he
17:19prioritized a bunch of psus and I
17:21remember looking at them and finding
17:23such gems as CMC bat Electronics bat
17:27Earth movers they all today are 200 300
17:30Baggers if you account for the dilution
17:32that has taken place so we SP the stocks
17:35at the pennies so I had a good
17:36experience in the '90s which I carried
17:38for again in this 2010 so part of life
17:41is doing a homework you know and getting
17:43ready for the opportunity meets let me
17:45give this point because I think it
17:46deserves some more explanation to it
17:49Charlie Munger often talks about a guy
17:51called Max flank yeah uh he he won the
17:54quantum prize for mechanics and he was
17:56feated by the German citizens and after
17:59a few speeches out there going to his
18:01last speech the driver said you know
18:03your speech is long and boring but it's
18:05so easy even I can say the whole speech
18:08so in the next uh stop which is Munich
18:11he says yeah you wear My Chauffeur cat
18:13I'll wear your coattails and will give
18:15the speech and he gave a Flawless
18:16rendition of Max blank speech the
18:18chauffer gave
18:19Flawless after that there was a question
18:21and answer session and uh some
18:25Physicians asked him a very Gastly
18:26question with the chauffer had no idea
18:29but he was not want to give up he looked
18:30at Max flang and said I'm surprised that
18:33among the Learned citizens of Munich
18:34this such a simple question this
18:36question is so simple even My Chauffeur
18:38can answer this question and he turn it
18:40over to Max PL to answer this question
18:43the point is not to explain to you how
18:44good Max flank was but the point was
18:46explain there's two kinds of knowledge
18:48there knowledge you have that Max flank
18:50has is detailed knowledge of quantum
18:51mechanics and there's Road knowledge
18:53with the chauffeur head by just
18:54memorizing a speech and I would urge all
18:57youngsters who are career in the stock
18:59market to develop that Max blank
19:02knowledge that Nuance knowledge you know
19:03it's very important in the stock market
19:05to do your own homework do your own
19:07thought process not carried away a good
19:09investor is one who knows the value of
19:11everything and the price of nothing
19:12perhaps but most investors know the
19:14price of everything but the value of
19:17nothing so it's a very uh iconic moment
19:20to come through and understand that but
19:23I would urge all all young investors or
19:25this is a long-term business not a
19:27business for a year two year you must
19:29work a career out of investing and
19:30compounding and you must uh take the max
19:34blank approach you know know your
19:36subject very well yeah and speaking on
19:38that because I want to go a little
19:40deeper on that there's so much noise
19:42about investing in equities these days
19:44so a lot of people just start doing your
19:46usual funds or sips and that is also
19:49great for most people who want to not
19:51take it up full-time for but for someone
19:53who seriously wants to get invested and
19:55take up stock market investing as a
19:57career option what would you say what
20:00where should they start and I know that
20:02you know you still do your homework
20:03you're reading all day in your office
20:05and you know you till after market
20:07closes you are not available for anyone
20:09and that is so much effort except for
20:11your podcast I made that exception yes I
20:14really because I was so sorry that I
20:15missed you the first time yes but you
20:17know I'm so happy that you did that but
20:19you're still putting in that effort
20:21after Decades of experience in stock
20:23market investing so how can people even
20:25start from the very basic someone in
20:27their 20s and 30s if they were to get a
20:29road map of how to become the future Mr
20:31the Mani what should they do I hope they
20:34would have higher aspirations with that
20:35but we'll leave that aside thank you you
20:37know I think it's a lot part to do your
20:40own homework and I think a lot of value
20:42investors that you would interview in
20:44your podcast and you mean basically
20:46money is how we keep score okay it's not
20:48that changes our life money is how we
20:50keep score if you're a mathematician you
20:52want to win the fields price if you're
20:54an architect you want to britzka price
20:56and if you're an actor you want to win
20:57the Oscar and by the way if I give you a
20:59Shameless plug my niece uh my sister's
21:02daughter has just been nominated for an
21:03Oscar for best do yes SMY and for I
21:07think the documentary was I am ready
21:09warden so she just been nominated so I
21:12have a lot of pride in that so if you
21:13want to the best in any field you need
21:16to uh give that uh effort and in the
21:20stock market is only about money okay
21:22that's how we measure our success you
21:23know but it's not that money we use it
21:25for a more hedonistic lifestyle I think
21:27we all become at some Trustees of wealth
21:30it's how we keep score of the money made
21:33the best way I found it is you know you
21:35can make by finding a great company and
21:38having this fancy that I bought 30% of
21:41the company or you know I got lucky but
21:43that generally is not it's like
21:45lightning strike it maybe happens but
21:47it's very rare yeah I think the the
21:49important thing to look upon is that you
21:51should learn compounding and that's how
21:52money becomes wealth that's how you
21:54create extraordinary generational wealth
21:56so if you start say when you're 30 and
21:59you retire when you're 60 that gives you
22:01a 30-year window in your life and if you
22:03get 10 doubles in that time 10 doubles
22:06that is if your portfolio goes up 23 20%
22:08compounded every year for and it doubles
22:11every 3 years for 10 years you actually
22:14make THX the wealth that you started
22:16with and that's extraordinary I mean you
22:17can start from any amount of money be an
22:19absolute penny pinching middle class
22:22member but by the end of the 30 year
22:23Journey you'll be fabulously Rich you
22:25know you'll be among the richest people
22:26in this country in fact I would say the
22:27richest people in the the world so it's
22:29a worthy ambition for a young person to
22:31set himself up to the beautiful part is
22:35that India has been giving us that
22:37opportunity the sensex itself has been
22:39compounded 14 15 16% plus you get a few
22:42points for dividends and all I'm asking
22:44you do is 23 24% and it gets
22:47increasingly harder but let's say you
22:48don't make thousand times your money you
22:49make 300 times your money so what you're
22:51still doing very well so my urge to
22:53younger investors is to buy a great
22:55business and learn that you're buying a
22:58business you're not buying a price
22:59action selling it because what is the
23:03saddest thing that in the stock market
23:04that I've seen over 30 years is that
23:06people happy making a 20 point gain in a
23:08stock and going out and celebrating when
23:10if they held the stock they could have
23:12made 20 times their money all right so I
23:14would urge people that the stock market
23:16is not a casino it's not a punt that if
23:18you make 20% go out and celebrate have
23:21fun with the boys this is a long-term
23:23serious business and if you compound
23:25instead of that 20% or 23% or wait till
23:28the stock go of 10x 20x you're going to
23:30be infinitely richer why is I happy at
23:31the end of the period I would urge all
23:34the younger set to look at the investing
23:37as a business yeah and the stocks you
23:39buy as you're buying a piece of the
23:41business not a price action and if you
23:43do that and you compound your money I I
23:46assur you the mathematics is all there
23:47you'll be very rich yeah and but like
23:50you know in today's changing Dynamic
23:51everyone feels like you know you cannot
23:53hold a certain company for 20 30 years
23:56because times are changing so rapidly
23:58now with the Advent of AI things might
24:00get disrupted very quickly so how does
24:02one find those companies that you can
24:04hold on for 20 30 years even I I don't
24:07know I've held on to a lot of business
24:08for 20 years 30 years perhaps in my life
24:11the important thing is to buy the
24:13business with what we call a marginal
24:14safety what is that it's how your mother
24:16told you to buy groceries you know you
24:19to buy cheap so you have to buy cheap
24:21because that itself makes the
24:22compounding possible if you buy them at
24:24full price or buy them expensive you
24:26probably won't enjoy the benefits of
24:27compounding think or the other way you
24:29say there no opportunities available in
24:31the Western Market 20 years ago no one
24:33had heard of Netflix Facebook uh Nvidia
24:37all these stocks are 20x 40x in the last
24:3915 20 years you held those 20 years you
24:40made a lot of money in Facebook in which
24:43are common names today yeah I don't
24:45think that changes in in the world of
24:47business I think there are some
24:48businesses that will you know be able to
24:51prosper over 2030 years because they
24:53good managements and good business
24:54models there's some businesses that
24:56won't they'll go up and down and perhaps
24:58in to take some money off the table when
24:59the bull market is over or when you
25:01think they overvalued but it's like a
25:03game of tennis just because you lose the
25:05first time doesn't mean you don't try
25:06win the next time the next time so I
25:08think you you keep at it you'll do get
25:10better at it yeah and you mentioned that
25:11you held some stocks for 20 30 years
25:13even do you want to give us some
25:15examples and when was the opportunity
25:17time for you to sell uh you know because
25:20one figuring out when to sell is also
25:22something that investors should know and
25:24be mindful yeah I mean there a couple of
25:26reasons which are the business of H 30
25:28years I mean my mind's too clouded right
25:30now to come up but I've had a lot of
25:32businesses you have to believe me that
25:33over 20 30 years because what I do what
25:36I think what has worked for me is uh
25:39rather than try and get out at the top
25:41for each stock and feel bad if I didn't
25:43get out or I didn't buy it cheap enough
25:47I look at the aggregate portfolio how
25:48the portfolio is done if that portfolio
25:51compounds at about 2 to 23% I'm doing a
25:53good job I'm not looking for anything
25:54more or anything greater than that so
25:57I'm trying to double my even now every 3
25:59years because I know what the
26:00mathematics of that is so we try and
26:03keep it to that level so occasionally a
26:05stock will go to 900 and then I have
26:07sell it at 600 because you know I didn't
26:09get the top so but I'm still over
26:11looking my portfolio balance it gets
26:12harder to do don't get me wrong it's not
26:14easy to do it is harder to do but that's
26:16what I try to do to do all there when
26:18you sell there two reasons one when you
26:20find a better investment opportunity
26:21then you obviously sell your current
26:23holding and buy that opportunity I tend
26:25not to do that because I run a more
26:26Diversified portfolio as a post to
26:28concentrate portfolio so I always have
26:30some cash that's easily available but in
26:33my experience that when you think a bull
26:35market is getting over that's a good
26:37time to encast some chips there are some
26:39businesses that can ride out bad bull
26:41market bare market and come back but
26:43most businesses once the bare Market
26:45starts will be down 30 40 50 70% from
26:49the peak yeah so just before you see
26:51that it's a good time to sell that now
26:54that will be get the next question how
26:56do you see uh how do you Market you know
26:59it's like when you have full knowledge
27:00you kind of sense that the market kind
27:02of that's the way the game is played the
27:05market gives you an indication that the
27:08bull market is stopping out or the bare
27:10Market is this thing to give you a
27:12famous clich an expound on that uh when
27:15the panala starts giving you tips you
27:16know the bull market is get over that's
27:18been used in the last but let me give an
27:20example of how someone used that in real
27:22life I talked about Kennedy earlier on
27:25Kennedy's father Joe Kennedy was a very
27:27known Speculator in
27:29in 1929 he got all of uncat from the
27:31great fall that happened in America the
27:32Great Depression happened in America and
27:34someone asked him a few years later how
27:36did he Manch to get out completely
27:37intact he said I'd gone to shine my
27:39shoes and the shoe shine boy gave me
27:41three tips in five minutes while I was
27:43shining my shoes and that's a good
27:44example that Markus stopped out so I'll
27:47give a personal example of my life just
27:48to add to the color uh I I'll never
27:51forget this in 2008 top of the bull
27:53market that happened in 2008 cell phone
27:56had barely been discovered at that time
27:57in India I'm walking home one day uh you
28:01know I live very close by so walking
28:03home and my phone rings and an a star
28:08from Bollywood a gr star from Bollywood
28:11actress called me you know and I I knew
28:14her and i' spoken to her maybe 10 years
28:15earlier I had met 10 years with no
28:17conversation no meeting she kindly
28:19figured out my number I don't know how
28:21called me and she said she wanted to
28:23apply for some very famous ipu at that
28:25time and that was someone ringing the
28:27bell and telling me that Market has
28:28stopped out out there when a film star
28:30wants to call R the markets have topped
28:32out you know so sometimes the market
28:34gives you these kind of things at the
28:36top of the market there'll be very heavy
28:37leverage Market won't react to news if
28:40the good news comes Market will sell off
28:42if bad news come Market will sell off
28:44anyway so Market gives you all sorts of
28:46indication that it's tired or stopping
28:47out it just have to pay attention to it
28:50a similar set of circumstance happen
28:51when the market is bottoming out that
28:53good news will bad news will come and
28:56the market won't go down will be all Fed
28:58Up of stock every will tell you they
29:00never going to go back in the stock
29:01market that's when you want to look in
29:031979 to give you another historic
29:05example the cost of a taxi Medallion in
29:09New York was greater than the seat in
29:12the New York Stock Exchange a taxi
29:14business was worth more than the
29:15security business out there and to add
29:17to those Wars in 196 a very famous cover
29:20of business week which called the death
29:22of equities which is exactly the bottom
29:24a great bull market in shorted after
29:26that a 40-year bull market after that
29:28but typically we'll see these kind of
29:29negative headlines and you know bad news
29:31coming in the market going down and
29:33everyone you know bem moing how much
29:34money they lost in the stock market
29:36that's probably a good time to take a
29:37contra and get back into the market so
29:38you kind of know if you're in the
29:40business it is your job to know those
29:41extremes but wouldn't you say some part
29:43of that is already happening in the IPO
29:45market like so there's so much fraught
29:47inme IPOs and there's a lot of frenzy
29:50around it so where would you see we in
29:53the market cycle right now I'll tell you
29:55why my personal feeling is just to date
29:57the thing because the
29:58hopefully a podcast that people watch
30:00for many years so we're dating this on
30:02you know the end January end of January
30:05out there my feeling is that we're in a
30:08first correction in four five years so
30:09it's unlikely to have topped out the
30:11reason I say that not recently but say
30:14as little as 20 days back I as I told
30:16you run a very Diversified portfolio a
30:19lot of my stocks that run were making
30:20new highs now that can't happen in a
30:22bearish phase of the market you know in
30:24a bare phase of the market you know the
30:25stocks would have peaked out and started
30:27falling so they were making new highs
30:29plus when I go and visit those companies
30:31and visit those plants and talk to
30:33management there's an exciting growth
30:34story happening there so my feeling is
30:36that this is a shake out that took place
30:38there was a bit of compeny in the market
30:40and the market will at some point
30:42rebound and you know go on and make new
30:43highs in the market that is my view I
30:46could change it but that is my view at
30:47the current time that we're in a strong
30:49correction probably the first correction
30:50in The Last 5 Years but I think it's uh
30:53if you're finding good value and good
30:55opportunity it's time to put that money
30:57back to work because I've often heard
30:59you say in interviews that you know
31:00there were opportunities that you regret
31:02for not loading up the truck on uh so
31:05what how should one think about position
31:07sizing in terms of their netw worth
31:08because it could be for anyone who maybe
31:10has 10 lakhs someone has 50 lakhs a COR
31:1310 cres 100 crores but how how should
31:16one think about position sizing compared
31:17to the net perhaps not the best way uh I
31:20run a diversified portfolio the way I
31:22look at it is this that if I go I have a
31:25lot of friends so I go and ask them and
31:27the common coinages when we start
31:29talking is what have you bought recently
31:31what have you done recently and we work
31:34on what again M call the Seamless Web of
31:37trust I trust the person I'm talking to
31:39he trusts what I'm saying we exchange as
31:41peers with each other and he tells me
31:43XYZ stock that he's bought which I have
31:45no idea about but I know enough of him
31:47and trust him enough and know his
31:48expertise in sector so I will tend to
31:50buy what he's buying so very soon you're
31:52running a very Diversified portfolio the
31:55good thing about it for what is worth is
31:56the top five positions which would be my
31:58own core position my account for 50% of
32:00my portfolio but the rest of it would be
32:02a fairly long tail because you know I
32:04can't help it I meet a lot of people and
32:05I they give me an idea and why won't I
32:07trust them when they're saying me
32:08something so I tend to buy that do I
32:10know enough to buy put 5% in net worth
32:13no but I think whatever works is fine if
32:16you work on a con portfolio you want to
32:18do that that's fine Diversified is fine
32:21in an out is fine the test that you're
32:24doing the right thing is have you
32:25doubled your money in 3 years I think
32:27that is my test if you've done that
32:29please follow what we are doing you know
32:30if you think leverage works for you and
32:31you can handle it please leverage I have
32:33no issue about that but a good person in
32:36the market should be able to double his
32:37money every three years in India the
32:39kind of Market this in rupee terms not
32:41dollar terms in rupee terms I'm saying
32:43that dollar terms are very very hard to
32:44do but in rup terms you do that so I
32:47think that is what the test I use for
32:49myself if you're young or you're old or
32:51you're new or you're just getting
32:52started give yourself you're starting
32:54with 10 lakhs try and make you 20 lakhs
32:56in three years time and 20 becomes 40
32:58and very soon the magic starts of
33:00compounding starts taking over
33:01absolutely and talking about compounding
33:03because you know your talk about growing
33:0510 lakhs to 100 crores was the first
33:08time that India was able to really
33:10visualize how compounding works because
33:12I don't think in schools or anywhere we
33:14are taught about you know how to
33:15visualize compounding it very hard to
33:17understand yes but how did you instill
33:19that belief in yourself very early on to
33:21be able to be this forward looking in
33:24there two shares one I used to know gent
33:27p away he was one of the dean Indian
33:29Dean investors one of the early value
33:31investors Chandra s and he would come to
33:34my office and he would kind of sit down
33:35and work out these spreadsheets with me
33:37saying if lever compounds at 15 16% this
33:40is what is going to be worth at this and
33:41we just thought it was just funny it
33:42doesn't work like that out there it's a
33:44magical process what can I say that's
33:46exactly how it works you know you just
33:47have to have the faith and stick to your
33:50discipline and the money will start
33:52growing and after 15 16 years people who
33:54came in 20089 investing for the first
33:56time can't believe the wealth that has
33:58been created through the stock market
34:00but let me tell you why compounding is
34:02important I think that's uh to me uh
34:05what I learned and let me tell you a
34:07name which I'm sure you haven't heard of
34:09is uh I think Ruth and ly Marcus have
34:11you heard those names ever no okay I
34:13know you haven't because a very rare
34:14story but it gives you the full example
34:16of why compounding is so important in
34:18this world Ruth and ly Marcus were from
34:22the old world from Germany they were
34:24persecuted as Jews they ran to America
34:27and started life there um lty Marcus was
34:31a dentist and Ruth Marcus was a
34:33secretary in a Wall Street firm where
34:35she befriended Benjamin
34:37Graham and Benjamin Graham was on
34:40retirement so he introduced him to one
34:41of his mentees which is Warren Buffett
34:43said he'll help you with investing so
34:45they told what a Warren said they
34:48invested in this time they live very
34:50frugally well below their means out
34:52there and by the time they got to be
34:547580 they had aass good fortune of money
34:56and they wanted to donate and they decid
34:58donate it to the Israel university
35:01called you know Ben guron University in
35:03the neev desert to do what research for
35:05water they believe mle said water they
35:07would bring peace out there so that was
35:09their B hope out there just by sheer
35:11saving and investing and compounding
35:13over long periods of time 40 50 year
35:15career they turned whatever savings they
35:17had into $200 million wow savings which
35:20they already done the whole thing okay
35:21the whole thing the daughter didn't want
35:23the money they were ready to donate the
35:24whole money by the time they drew up the
35:26paperwork and the time they uh signed
35:30the agreement to give it that wealth had
35:32grown not to $200 million but $500
35:35million and I'll never forget this was
35:37Journal article we read about
35:40that when they made when they gave the
35:42donation which is the largest single
35:44private donation to Israeli history of
35:46$500 million they flew economy class to
35:49get there and make the donation and it
35:52has always resonated with me that how
35:54people of modest incomes from the middle
35:56class can become serious money in just a
36:00Lifetime by using compounding yeah and
36:02how it's equally important that when you
36:05have that wealth you see yourself as a
36:07trustee of that wealth you know it's not
36:09that we want to Flash and Dash and you
36:11know I don't think the real value
36:12investors do that they always value the
36:15effort it takes to earn it and it takes
36:17to spend it but to me roots and loty
36:20Marcus remains as embl and I think the
36:23story should be more widely told and
36:25remembered it's an extraordinary Spirit
36:27of generosity imagine creating $500
36:29million giving it to charity and living
36:32and flying economy class when you made
36:34that charity I mean that's fantastic yes
36:37thank you for sharing this story because
36:38I did not know this um you know there's
36:41also this book about charie manga called
36:43the tow of charie manga which I was
36:45reading recently and he talks about how
36:47Ben Graham would have not made too much
36:49money because he would always have a
36:51level a price where he would sell the
36:53companies and that's what Charlie
36:55changed in his philosophy and held the
36:57companies for that long so how are you a
37:00student of Ben Graham also would you
37:02agree or disagree with some of the
37:04things that he taught and because Warren
37:06and Charlie learned from him a lot but
37:08applied those lessons in a very
37:09different way to bursh no absolutely I
37:11moved in the same way you buy with a
37:12margin of safety that's what Ben Graham
37:14always thought he was a student of the
37:16depression so he always wanted to buy a
37:18net net cash cash valuation out there
37:20increasingly don't find S businesses
37:22because everything become smart and
37:23efficient computers have figured out
37:25what the cash value is and what the book
37:26value is and do that there you can't do
37:28that but extending the franchise of the
37:30business understanding the power the
37:32value the brand uh you know so important
37:35let me give you another example of the
37:36Warren Buffett style of investing and
37:38how it intersects with comp compounding
37:40and investing so Warren Buffett bought a
37:42stock called Coke which is the most
37:44famous investment yeah he made uh from
37:47the time he bought it to a certain point
37:4910 times his money so the stock made up
37:5110 times he bought it I think in the mid
37:5380s something like that and in the next
37:555 years it was up 10x then from 1990 to
37:592014 a period of almost 14 15 years the
38:02stock moved in a band it didn't make any
38:04new money I often asked myself why it
38:07that Warren Buffett the greatest
38:08investor we know he probably figured the
38:11stock wasn't was too richly VAR won't go
38:13anywhere why did he sell that stock why
38:14did he keep the stock for almost 10
38:16years without any returns and then as I
38:20thought and reflected I found the answer
38:23that his initial investment of $700
38:25million a billion dollar in Coke okay
38:28was generating for him in dividends
38:31maybe $500 to $700 million a year now
38:34yeah at this point which is a 70% return
38:36on Capital so as long as he knew the
38:38business franchise was stable he was
38:40getting a 70% return on his Capital
38:41which is Beats any day getting 12 13% or
38:448% elsewhere so he could hold on to the
38:46stock but he identified such a great and
38:48profitable franchise that he knew the
38:50certainty of the dividend and Koch has
38:52increased the dividence every year since
38:54he's bought it so he kind of figured
38:56that out and that's the important thing
38:57to do in businesses find a great
39:00business find a business with a stable
39:01cash flow that is going to pay out to
39:03shareholders and reward it and you know
39:06I think those are the important lessons
39:07to learn that you compound money in many
39:09ways one is to stock appreciation but
39:12don't for ignore dividends div a very
39:14important part of to returns and I think
39:16Buffett and manga taught us that how
39:17does one find these if you were to give
39:19a step by step process of youngsters to
39:22be able to figure out how to find these
39:24companies how does one identify such
39:26opportunity know I'd be the most popular
39:28guy if I could tell you the five stocks
39:30that do that you don't know you take a
39:31bet you take a probability bet out there
39:33you know I had no idea the MPS would do
39:35so well but as long as they continue to
39:37do well I was not tempted to sell it
39:39just because I thought it was overpriced
39:40you stocks get overpriced for any number
39:41of reasons you know markets fancy a good
39:44quarter whatever I didn't sell them and
39:48you watch management see there are some
39:50businesses that throw out cash and
39:52management don't want to build Empires
39:53on them they want to you know give the
39:56cash because if they hard the cash and
39:58they don't use it then the return on
40:00Equity Falls so they understand these
40:02things the return on capital for do want
40:03to do that so they want to keep the
40:05balance sheet lean and throw out the
40:06cash so over time as you watch the
40:08companies they you will understand what
40:10the management philosophy is you know
40:12there's a company in the media business
40:13for example that had extra cash and paid
40:15you 65 rupe one time special dividend I
40:18mean on a 200 rupe share they paid you
40:1965 rupees one time but they still paid
40:22you onethird of your purchase price as a
40:24dividend I mean so there extraordinary
40:26amounts of managements that are very
40:27focused very high on corporate
40:29governance in India you look for
40:30companies with that high corporate
40:32governance standards respect for capital
40:35is very important to identify those
40:36companies but they end up you know
40:38rewarding shareholders because they
40:39understand the value of capital that
40:41they've employed in the business
40:42everyone talks about you know uh finding
40:45good management to back but how does one
40:47identify it because you know when you
40:49are reading about a company and maybe a
40:52report you don't really get to spend
40:54time with them or interact with them or
40:56you know even see what saying about
40:58different sectors so how does one really
41:00figure out if a management is good or
41:02not well you need three things for a
41:04good management you need Integrity you
41:06need energy and you need uh you know
41:09excellence in that management and the
41:11most important is integrity because
41:12without Integrity because enthusiasm and
41:15Excellence you'll screw it up so you
41:17want someone with Integrity out there
41:19how do you figure it out it's not that
41:20hard it's you know it's uh you know if
41:23you now there's so many interviews on
41:25YouTube media AGM you go and just listen
41:28you just listen to people talk they
41:30reveal themselves okay if someone is you
41:33know has 10 bounces next to him why
41:36would he have 10 bouncers I mean what
41:37what's he trying to prove what's he
41:38trying to protect himself against you
41:40know a lot of magins would walking with
41:4110 bouncers or be very rude to
41:43shareholders or will not be able to
41:45explain their strategy just say hey
41:46trust us you know so I think you just
41:49over time you develop a sense of who's
41:52good who's not good and you want to bet
41:54with the guy who's understated less
41:57slambo respects Capital as opposed to
42:00someone who gets a corporate Jet and you
42:02know Jets out and tries to put the AGM
42:05for 10 minutes you know and more
42:07importantly I think you find the track
42:09record you know if you what people don't
42:12understand with infosis is that before
42:14they went public there a 10-year track
42:15record you could go back and see what
42:18the company did every year what the
42:20sales over the profits or how they were
42:21growing so when they told when they went
42:23public this is our track record this is
42:25what we think we can do the next three
42:26years you to believe them because
42:28they've already done that in the past so
42:29some people change the names because AI
42:31is not popular so we become an AI
42:33company or tomorrow real estate is
42:34popular become real estate company or
42:36people a lot of swagger or people who
42:38dilute the equity a lot those are the
42:39businesses to avoid you don't want in
42:41fact the Cardinal thing is to avoid
42:42businesses that dute the equity
42:44frequently it used to be something that
42:46the market applauded 20 years back oh
42:49we're getting a cheap rice cheap bonus
42:51but it's your Capital has been wasted so
42:53you want people who Shepherd your
42:55Capital yeah absolutely and when you
42:57think about you know identifying these
42:59it's also a lot of just recognizing you
43:02were betting on the jockey uh you
43:04betting on the jockey in this uh race
43:07and then when you're figuring out those
43:09things you can't really know uh you can
43:11know a lot of things in hindsight but
43:12you can't be that forward-looking to
43:14know that this person will perform
43:15because sometimes good managements also
43:17don't know how good the good will be uh
43:20right so how can you think about uh some
43:22kind of um road map for where the
43:24company will grow uh without you you
43:27know sometimes even the management not
43:28knowing how good the good can be yeah
43:30you know there are two parts to the
43:32answer the first part is what B Buffett
43:34taught us that when a good manager meets
43:38uh a bad business is the reputation of
43:42the business that was survive you know
43:43good managements are the graveyard for
43:45bad businesses so make sure you get into
43:47a good business that's important you
43:48know there are some businesses that are
43:50very good I mean I told you there are
43:51500 automobile companies in America in
43:53the 30s they're down to three by 1970s
43:55okay so bad businesses is get there's
43:57some business that generate that kind of
43:59free cash flow negative working Capital
44:02High payouts you want to find that good
44:05business and you want to marry that with
44:07a good
44:08management if you will there are some
44:11businesses as Warren buffer told about
44:13Coke he said the business is so good
44:15that basically you know ham and rice
44:18sandwich could run that business you
44:19know you don't require but when you got
44:20a genius running their business my God
44:22look at the cash flow the companies
44:23produced for 30 years what Warren
44:26understood in inherently about Coke just
44:28to give that the example he said that if
44:30there was World War II tomorrow and all
44:33Coke's plants would be destroyed but the
44:36world legal system intact so the tradem
44:38mark and patterns were respected C could
44:40be rebuilt the next year it takes $100
44:42million to build a plant you know it's
44:44not you could build one plant and
44:45service the entire United States so the
44:47trademark and the patent is what makes
44:49it valuable and that's the role of a
44:51manager to protect that mode to build
44:53that trademark to build that pattern
44:55which Coke management has done over 30
44:5640 years there a lot of City
44:58diversification the ' 70s and ' 80s
44:59buying coke uh Colombia and shrimp farms
45:03and you know so many other business this
45:06we just focus on marketing Coke right
45:09sending the syrup out of the bottlers
45:10let them make it let them deliver it to
45:12the customer they just use a trademark
45:14and pattern so occasionally you to find
45:16those kind of businesses there are not
45:18that many to be honest there very few
45:19businesses like that when you find them
45:21it's worth it's weight in gold can you
45:24talk about some Indian examples because
45:26the shows is is called the India
45:27opportunity so you know our viewers
45:29would really love to get some names from
45:31you in terms of which are some of those
45:33companies which have actually what very
45:35strong modes yeah these are not
45:37recommendations in any way but just to
45:39be able to understand how to think about
45:40different businesses and some frame to
45:43give you a classic example of a sin
45:44business okay liquor and tobacco are not
45:48mess the businesses that are you know
45:51saintly businesses I mean but human
45:53addiction is human addiction I mean we
45:55like a drink
45:57I I've often said this example if you
45:59ever seen the movie darar have you seen
46:01the movie there's a scene with pin Babi
46:03and amab bachan sitting in the bar uh in
46:06the and pine babby is the Lady of easy
46:09virtue in the movie and she swivels a
46:12chair and
46:23says so it's a universal lubricant all
46:26right so these are great businesses over
46:28periods of time and once the value start
46:30being unlocked you could see what
46:31happened to United Spirits or United
46:33beer the extraordinary value they
46:36created what has been the best
46:38performing stock in India or let me
46:40first start with the world according to
46:42you which is the best performing stock
46:43in America over the last say 75 80 years
46:46the stock is Philip Morris it's a
46:48cigarette manufacturer because a free
46:49cash flow what are the best stock in
46:51India is probably ITC what is the best
46:53stock in UK is probably bat which is
46:56again a cigarette manufacturer what is
46:58the best stock in Japan it's probably
47:00Japan tobacco what was been the one of
47:02the best stocks in China it's ma Tha
47:03it's liquor manufacturer so these are
47:05great businesses that over time they
47:07just invest a little bit of brand a
47:09little bit in advertising and sometimes
47:10that is also restricted and it's very
47:12addictive you know it's like you buy you
47:15make something for 10 cents you sell it
47:16for a dollar and people will buy it and
47:18if you raise taxes people will still pay
47:20for it and you get the free cash flow
47:22and you distributed back to shareholders
47:23so occasionally you find those
47:24businesses you know like for example the
47:26liquor and tobacco businesses in India
47:28but there are managements like I have a
47:30company called sundaram Finance you know
47:32which I've held for donkeys years you
47:34know 25 years at least never dive to the
47:36equity always repow the money back in
47:38the business give out handsome payouts
47:40to the shareholders with the money left
47:42over of there you know Finance they
47:44never died to the equity I mean that's
47:45extraordinary record that they have uh
47:48and impeccable I think the name is
47:50better than the name of tatas in Bombay
47:52is you know they have that kind of
47:53pedigree and franchise in South India so
47:56the lot of great businesses that you the
47:58baj name is that comes to mind is very
48:00good so a lot of great names that come
48:02to mind of businesses I think the key
48:04thing for investors to look if that's
48:06you're asking is the free cash flow you
48:08know business generates free cash flow
48:10what do they do with it do they go
48:11around building Empires with it do they
48:13go on diversifying into unrated
48:15opportunities do they squander it on
48:17corporate planes or do they give the
48:19cash back to the shareholders if you
48:20figure out a company that generates free
48:22cash flow or is about to generate free
48:24cash flow and what they do with it
48:27if they don't need more Capital to run
48:28their business and they're willing to
48:30screw out the cash and give it to your
48:32shareholders believe me you want to
48:33stick to that company yeah but then when
48:36you look at any of the new age companies
48:38they are not really generating that much
48:40free cash flow a lot of them are also
48:41loss making when they list so you know
48:44one would one could say that that is
48:46probably the best time to back them
48:47because you know backing Amazon when it
48:49was still a loss making company that
48:51would have been the best investment but
48:53how so how does one find those kind of
48:55opportunities in the new age companies
48:58if there are you have to look ahead like
48:59I told you stock market is about looking
49:01ahead through the windshield not through
49:02the rear viiew mirror so I mean these
49:03companies are not doing well right now
49:05because they're still in the growth
49:06phase but when they grow well how will
49:08they behave I think that's the Judgment
49:10call that's what your paid analy that's
49:12why you make the big money if you get
49:13that right so you have to kind of
49:15discuss with management you know at the
49:17AGM look at the track record of what
49:19they're doing are they sticking to the
49:21knitting or they getting diversify in a
49:22lot of areas are they e on ego trip so
49:25that is the job of an analyst that is
49:27that is what job there is no checkbook I
49:29can give you this here are the three
49:31things checklist you do and you'll be
49:33fine in life it doesn't work like that
49:34these are sometimes nuances that to
49:36think about how he behaves when he
49:38exists the AGM does he drive into a
49:40regular car or is he got a fleet of
49:42Mercedes waiting for him does he have
49:44too much security surrounding him these
49:46are the intangibles that only someone
49:48who follows the company can figure out
49:51over time also rames you know when you
49:53think about financial crisis think of an
49:55instance like 2008 a lot of people's
49:58personal savings were completely wiped
49:59away and when you think about you know
50:01worrying about a correction that can
50:03possibly happen people really have that
50:05fear that I can lose everything um in
50:08this market so as someone who's dealt
50:10with and seen many highs and lows of the
50:12markets how have you built that
50:14resilience to be able to ride the wave I
50:17think that's a lot of U you know media
50:19talk that you can lose everything it
50:21doesn't really happen yeah you can lose
50:2399% of your money you buy bad businesses
50:25you buy a Bad Company
50:27or you buy a fraudulent promoter of
50:28course you can and you have I mean that
50:30that has been the fact but buy a good
50:32business you know good decent Prospect
50:35and you take a diversified approach
50:37occasionally once might be a bad apple
50:39I've mentioned many times that I lost
50:4095% of money in a stock called mtnl but
50:43it was a loss I could afford take
50:45because a lot of other stocks went a 5x
50:4610x so the loss itself didn't amount to
50:48much it was painful but didn't amount to
50:50much so run a diversified portfolio and
50:53find good businesses I don't think you
50:55lose that yeah there'll be vol
50:56volatility I I want to emphasize this
50:58point of difference between volatility
51:00and risk volatility is what we
51:01experiencing right now in the market on
51:03in Jan 2025 Market's going up and down
51:06people are getting wir out there risk is
51:08are you going to permanently lose
51:10Capital right that you can't afford to
51:12do you should not try and do that but
51:14volatility that's the nature of the
51:15Beast you can't get away from it if if
51:17you don't like volatility volatility
51:19don't get into the markets that simple
51:21it's
51:23because
51:250% Val L then they get very scared now
51:29and then these are very real human
51:30emotions that people have to deal with
51:32so what is your way of managing emotions
51:36greed
51:47fear you know we had to
51:58communist
51:59government Global
52:07Financial so the fact is the equity
52:09markets go up spend more time up than
52:11down the trick
52:15is and you'll do fine I think if you get
52:18greedy and you want to do the hottest
52:20idea the tip or what's told on TV
52:22necessarily they don't necessarily work
52:24out and uh what do you think about about
52:27um the great ones right like you often
52:29say that there are great investors and
52:31there are good investors you often say
52:33the example of Peter Lynch Warren
52:36Buffett and all the great ones and then
52:38there are good investors you always call
52:39yourself humbly the good investor what
52:42do you think really differentiates
52:44people from great and good and when do
52:46you think about when you think about
52:48finding these kind of people what are
52:50the qualities that really make them
52:51stand up Relentless Focus I mean you
52:53know they are so they creatures in the
52:55market I mean I think money is almost a
52:58byproduct they enjoy the game so much
53:00that they're playing that they would
53:02play it even in fact without the money
53:05money of course helps but they would
53:06play they enjoy the game of finding
53:09great ideas and what I think the be
53:11markets 247 my friend Rakesh I couldn't
53:14he couldn't have a discussion without
53:16getting the markets involved in that
53:17even if he was out with friends so I
53:19mean they're totally committed to the
53:21market it's not 98% committed they were
53:24100% committed to the market at all
53:26times and they have a passion for it
53:28they you know this is the calling they
53:30found a calling life they found a
53:31passion for life and I think they're
53:33Risk Takers I think the ability you put
53:37money on the
53:38table it's so important quality to have
53:42for a great investor that they're
53:44willing to lose money on their
53:45convictions yeah I'm trying to be
53:47sometimes too smart and you know being
53:49too careful but the truly great
53:52investors so supremely confident in
53:54their judgment in their belief that
53:56they'll put put money on the table and
53:57they'll take the knock if they lose the
53:59money they'll go without regret and they
54:02make the money of course they smile all
54:03the way to the bank so you know it's you
54:06want to be a great investor I think it's
54:08uh it's in the human nature why not I
54:10mean you know we have One Life to Live
54:12and you want to be the best you can and
54:13I think a lot of people are very happy
54:16being relatively good and by that I mean
54:19well the index was up 16% I did 19% so I
54:22must be good or for example that you
54:24know everyone else losing money I'm
54:26making money so it must be good and I
54:28respectfully say to them and to myself
54:31that's all hogwash you need to look at
54:33yourself on an absolute manner you have
54:35to say the opportunity for me was to
54:37create x amount of wealth and I only
54:39created x minus this wealth so I didn't
54:42do the to the best of my ability I think
54:45the world was built by people who are
54:46Mal contents people who were hungry yeah
54:49people who were you know wanting more
54:52for themselves you know not you know
54:54everyone does relatively well yeah we've
54:55done rela well I can't complain you know
54:57wife's happy you know whatever I know
55:00looking back at my life what a great
55:02opportunity the last 30 years presented
55:04you know and that I can't did not
55:06partake in to the full extent of me was
55:08a mistake on my part and I hope it's not
55:11repeated by my children or by my mentees
55:14or by people I try to reach out to that
55:17I think you have an obligation to do
55:18your best to give you the point I
55:19originally said that if you're
55:22running architecture for you want to
55:24know the prka price you want to be the
55:25best architect in the the world if you
55:27running a movie you want to win the
55:28Oscars in the market you want to make
55:30the best possible and then you can use
55:32it as Trustees of wealth that's fine
55:34with me but you can't Short Change
55:36yourself but I'm doing well I'm doing
55:38better than my peer group oh I'm doing
55:39well market up 18% I'm 20% I mean that's
55:42it's not doesn't C it for me yeah I mean
55:45you're okay but are you the best and The
55:48Human Experience indicates that we
55:51should strive to be our best with all
55:53legal means you know give that passion
55:55that is full uh business deserves yeah
55:58what you're saying is so important
56:00because some people are born with that
56:01inner clock right so do you think this
56:03is they the great ones are truly born
56:06with this potential and uh it is
56:08something that they discover along the
56:10way or is it something that can be
56:12mastered and is a skill that can be
56:14mastered if you spend enough hours I I
56:16don't know I master I'm trying to do it
56:19I am trying very hard uh I'm probably
56:22running out of real estate but uh you
56:24know there's saying that say teacher
56:26affects eternity because you never know
56:28where his influence stops influ
56:30generation so maybe I won't make it but
56:32someone listening to this podcast will
56:34make it be inspired by that I'm just
56:36saying that we can't be
56:39relative wealthy I beat the market so I
56:42must be good I mean wal she pay a lot of
56:45attention to these kind of this thing
56:47but if you're an individual investor you
56:49should have that passion you know to be
56:50a Peter Lynch to be a Warren Buffett to
56:52be ar the to be an n p whatever to be
56:54the best that you want to be in the the
56:56business I think there a it's a it's a
56:58higher calling of your life yeah and I
57:01would hope that people aspire to it
57:03there is I mean just to add there is a
57:06downside to that as my friend pointed
57:09Rakesh experienced that he was clearly
57:11the best in the business but he paid a
57:12huge personal price for it he didn't see
57:14to see his children grow up I mean it's
57:16a heavy price for a person to pay and
57:18I'm not advocating that extreme but I'm
57:22also advocating to give yourself a true
57:23test that I did my best and I got the
57:26best best opportunity out of it then
57:27what you make doesn't doesn't bother me
57:29or what you didn't make didn't bother me
57:31but I felt in my particular career that
57:33I could have given more had I been
57:35smarter when I was younger or more risk
57:37taking when I was younger and that
57:39bothers me I mean just is a human
57:41emotion I'm not trying to Big sympathy
57:42I've done I had a great life I had great
57:44friends great stocks I'm very blessed I
57:47mean I'm absolutely very very grateful
57:48for everything I have in my life uh so
57:51I'm not at all being I believe in
57:54stoicism you know I believe that
57:56whatever life throws at you you have to
57:57accept it so I'm going to accept it but
57:59I'm also want you to learn from it and I
58:00want to teach another generation that
58:02you cannot be happy if that opportunity
58:05is so great and you have the ability to
58:06take it you go ahead and grab it yeah I
58:09agree with that I have that Amar fatti
58:11tattoo
58:12also because I really agree with that
58:15but what you also saying is that you
58:16know you need so much Obsession that
58:18sometimes work life balance does go out
58:21of the window and there's so much debate
58:22about work life balance these days
58:24people are actually not working because
58:26they are talking about it that so what
58:28are your thoughts on that because you
58:30know in someone's case like rakes Jal if
58:32he had paid more attention to his health
58:34uh you know different story yeah I mean
58:37I mean that Rakesh represents an extreme
58:40of focus on the markets and focus on
58:42wealth creation I'm short of that but I
58:45do believe yeah I this work life balance
58:47is good if you're working at a corporate
58:49job I that's fine you know you need time
58:51of that you're trying to build a
58:52business or trying to build something
58:53substantial I think this is all idiotic
58:55talk you need to work work work this no
58:58other way there is no other way around
58:59it's just so stupid I mean the whole
59:01point is you know baseless in my view
59:03you know that you're trying to build
59:04something great you know I mean what are
59:06you going to do work like balance you
59:07got to build something that your
59:08children will be proud of that you can
59:09look up and say may do that you need to
59:11take of Health yes you need to take care
59:13of your health I'm not saying you don't
59:14take care of Health obviously you take
59:15care of Health but I'd rather go down as
59:18someone who build something great
59:20business a franchise a market a
59:22portfolio whatever then you know spend
59:25you know 6 hours listening to music I
59:26mean it's just not my thing I me I I'm
59:28very clear about it I'm with Naran miti
59:31and all the people who say that what
59:33India requires is more dedicated more
59:35passionate more committed workers are
59:36willing to put in their blood sweat toil
59:39and Tears On the Line yeah to be truly
59:42world class it is what it why not why
59:44should you aspire to anything less than
59:46that why yeah and you know great mentors
59:49often have lasting memories I'm sure
59:51Rakesh and arid deani would have also
59:53taught you many valuable lessons but
59:54which is the fondest one that you still
59:56take too hard today I think I from
59:59Rakesh I
1:00:00learned you know how to bet you know
1:00:03because he was he was supremely
1:00:06confident of his opinions and if he
1:00:07liked something he put up bet didn't
1:00:09care whe he lost money made money he
1:00:10wanted his money to work in that
1:00:12particular idea and that was a very hard
1:00:14thing for me to because I was scared so
1:00:16I was put AR I think what I learned from
1:00:18him the most is that he's one of the
1:00:20world's best listeners I mean that's
1:00:22astonishing that in the room full of
1:00:24people where he has accomplished the
1:00:25most he would be listening the most and
1:00:27talking the least and I realize there
1:00:29such an important attribute that you
1:00:31need he makes his own mind up but he
1:00:32listens to everyone he listen to
1:00:34proverbial panala he'll listen to a fund
1:00:36manager you know he'll make up his own
1:00:38mind whatever he thinks at this time but
1:00:40he's open listening to everyone and he's
1:00:42assessing everyone's opinion what
1:00:43they're saying what they're saying so if
1:00:46you ask me a quality that I wish I'd
1:00:48invite from him it was the listening
1:00:49attitude you know his humanness is
1:00:51extraordinary extraordinary quality that
1:00:53he has but his ability to listen and as
1:00:57I told you the Rahul D example to judge
1:01:00each ball on Merit to judge each
1:01:01investment on his merits not to get bias
1:01:04because X is saying it or Y is saying it
1:01:05or because the X result has been in the
1:01:08past or Y result in the past it is to
1:01:10judge each idea each stock each day each
1:01:13season in its merits that's an
1:01:14extraordinary ability being an
1:01:16independent thinker absolutely
1:01:18independent thinker a lot of Integrity
1:01:19they bring to the marketplace and listen
1:01:21listen listen you know yeah and when you
1:01:24also you know because we were talking
1:01:25about ra G he also you know when it came
1:01:28to his Titan investment I think you
1:01:30spoke about you know that his broker
1:01:32offered it to him otherwise it wouldn't
1:01:34have materialized so luck also played a
1:01:37huge factor in that how much credit do
1:01:39you play uh how much credit do you give
1:01:41to luck over skill yeah of course luck
1:01:43is important I mean like I told you we
1:01:46to use an example that Buffett has used
1:01:48again we all want the ovarian Lottery
1:01:50how do we win the ovarian Lottery we
1:01:52were born in India in the 1950s 60s we
1:01:55came up in 1990 when India was changing
1:01:57and we could participate my father was
1:01:59an equally Adept stock picker as me but
1:02:01never enjoyed the same success that
1:02:03because the market was smaller the
1:02:04Indian economy had it opened up so you
1:02:06could only fish in a very small pond so
1:02:09we we def definitely won and that is
1:02:11lucky I mean I didn't control that that
1:02:13I just what happened I grew up by 1989
1:02:15India opened up in 1989 voila we did
1:02:17very well it's uh very important but
1:02:21there is a you know a set of skill sets
1:02:23that are important in pursuing your
1:02:25passions uh
1:02:26that are very important do I rate luck
1:02:29as important more than I did in the past
1:02:31I realized that I you know give you an
1:02:34example just how you know your dots
1:02:36connect in life that I used to work in
1:02:38my previous AAR before I start the stock
1:02:40market as a programmer so I had I
1:02:42understood programming and then when I
1:02:45came 1992 93 infosis went public and CMC
1:02:50another public C Unit public and those
1:02:52two stocks were up 100x 200x 500x so my
1:02:55first big money was made in the stocks
1:02:57but if I had worked as a programmer
1:02:59which had no business with the stock
1:03:01market I wouldn't have made the
1:03:02connection these stocks were cheap
1:03:04because I knew what these businesses
1:03:05were worth because I worked in that I
1:03:07could understand the valuation of
1:03:08business you're getting CMC for like 30
1:03:10CR rupees or something like that which
1:03:12is like they were not even throwing it
1:03:13away they were just like putting in the
1:03:14dust bin basically you know so that
1:03:16because of my pass so that's how the
1:03:18dots connected out there but look at the
1:03:20benefits how the dots connected if you
1:03:22think about it CMC is a PSU and because
1:03:26it was a PSU and I made money in that I
1:03:28said let's me look at the other PSU so
1:03:30that led me to bat Electronics bat Earth
1:03:32movs in that era and then the next era
1:03:34it connected me with rvnl and Mason and
1:03:37so many other stocks okay so it started
1:03:40with that Gene when I was working which
1:03:42had no relationship to what I was doing
1:03:43now so luck obviously plays a very
1:03:46important part then the better prepared
1:03:49opportunity comes you know the luckier
1:03:51you get so you know youare yourself luck
1:03:54favor is the prepared mind
1:03:56you have to do your hard work yeah
1:03:57correct and you know you also spoke very
1:04:00fondly about Bill Gates's second act
1:04:02where he was a Founder before he built
1:04:05Microsoft and then he's become a
1:04:07philanthropist and given back so much
1:04:09I'm just wondering have you figured out
1:04:11your second act no it's extraordinary I
1:04:13find it so empowering and nobling that
1:04:16Bill Gates has mentioned to you given so
1:04:18much back in terms of philanthropy in
1:04:20India for example n by set of flame
1:04:23University in Puna ASI D set up
1:04:26Ashoka University in G in Delhi uh m is
1:04:31setting up a learning Institute I'm so
1:04:32empowered by this knowledge out there so
1:04:35I've started in some non-meaningful way
1:04:38giving back to my alma matter for
1:04:39example and a few other places there but
1:04:42increasingly it will be a more important
1:04:44focus of my life because it should be I
1:04:46think it's it's only proper that uh you
1:04:49find a cause that you're passionate
1:04:51about and you don't want to leave I
1:04:53don't think you want to leave my Kidman
1:04:55not like it with all your you know
1:04:57wealth to your kids leave them enough
1:04:59but not enough that they they don't want
1:05:01to do anything that's what Charlie and
1:05:02Warren also as I said my fingerprint of
1:05:05them yeah and um now how do you think
1:05:08about Legacy at this point in your
1:05:10career after having such an illustrious
1:05:13run what do you think of Legacy you know
1:05:15I feel very blessed to be honest I feel
1:05:17very blessed uh when I was I came here
1:05:19in 189 I was unsure unsteady didn't know
1:05:22my place in the world didn't know how to
1:05:23make money what drove me of course that
1:05:25are a young family and I know I wanted
1:05:28my son to look up to me you know have a
1:05:30legacy uh for him so that fear drove me
1:05:34to figure it out uh the world conspired
1:05:37to work for me you know India opened up
1:05:40markets were good you know we were in
1:05:42the right place at the right time we
1:05:44ended up making a lot of money I I hope
1:05:46I've been able to teach through my own
1:05:49interviews and my own podcasts and you
1:05:51know doing my own shows is that The
1:05:53Importance of Being a trust trusty for
1:05:56that wealth and using it for good causes
1:05:59you know as manger has said that you
1:06:01know I pass on my sword to those who can
1:06:03carry it you know so you know it's it's
1:06:05it's been extraordinary blessed journey
1:06:08I feel extremely blessed and extremely
1:06:10lucky and I hope that if as you
1:06:14mentioned that I've looked further it's
1:06:15because I stood on shoulders of giants
1:06:18so I'm trying to give that that
1:06:19experience of how to buy stocks how to
1:06:21position yourself how to lead life in a
1:06:23small way back to the Next Generation so
1:06:27if the if they are can benefit from it
1:06:30that would be a good Legacy to have
1:06:31absolutely and I am a living example of
1:06:33that you've taught me so much uh but how
1:06:36is uh let's also talk about uh working
1:06:38with your son specifically right because
1:06:40I saw this interview that you did where
1:06:42he was talking about defense as a sector
1:06:44and then you went ahead and invested in
1:06:47a lot of defense companies so how is
1:06:49that equation evolved over a period of
1:06:51time it's worked wonderfully see when he
1:06:52was coming to join me I was very scared
1:06:55because there always a difficult
1:06:56transition between Father and Son
1:06:58absolutely son knows their ideas father
1:07:00thinks he knows everything so it's a
1:07:02very difficult transition but it worked
1:07:04out well uh you know what is the job of
1:07:06the media to speak truth to power and
1:07:08only a son can do that to his father can
1:07:10speak truth to him so after he kind of
1:07:12understood the business he kind of went
1:07:14through my career with him and he said
1:07:17okay what are your regrets what are your
1:07:18mistakes he kind of you kind of Flesh
1:07:20them out and then he pointed out this is
1:07:22what you need to do to correct your
1:07:23mistakes and this is what you need to
1:07:24correct this thing and because the sun
1:07:26speaking you accept it at face values
1:07:28and I think I did change a little bit
1:07:29because of what were some of the
1:07:31mistakes just bigger positioning sizes
1:07:33bigger positioning sizes was one of them
1:07:35I realized that I had a lot of great
1:07:36ideas but I had to make more money in
1:07:39each great idea rather than lesser money
1:07:41out
1:07:42there invest in equities
1:07:54because choice
1:07:57and learn to
1:08:11comp don't go into Diversified nonsense
1:08:13put it all in
1:08:16equities r
1:08:25Zer everything is zero so you want to
1:08:27make all your mistakes early in life and
1:08:29then get it right so I would say invest
1:08:31all your money in equity put 100% in
1:08:33equities if you're young all right and
1:08:36give yourself a benchmark yeah I want to
1:08:38double it in three years time you do
1:08:40that then let stick in the next three
1:08:41years out there and I think you'll be
1:08:43fine I think it just people understood
1:08:44that basic thing this is a long-term
1:08:46wealth creation machine not a flash
1:08:48don't spend the money you know invest
1:08:51that money you know it's very easy to go
1:08:52and spend it but you know just keep
1:08:54investing it end of 30 years you'll be
1:08:56amazed at the financial transformation
1:08:58so track your life three years at a time
1:09:00three years at a time and over a 30 year
1:09:02period This is for long-term investing
1:09:03you know so don't say that oh now I made
1:09:05a CR so let me buy a fancy car that's a
1:09:09work onor work you have to keep work
1:09:11compounding that money for its own sake
1:09:12compound it and end of 30 years you can
1:09:14say I want to give it to my kids I want
1:09:16to you know buy a house I want to go for
1:09:18it I mean people always ask how do we
1:09:20live you figure it out that's life isn't
1:09:23so easy you know yeah but up to look
1:09:286 expect and people like you are
1:09:31continuing well into you know you're
1:09:33going to be 70 so you are continuing
1:09:35still so how does one plan for even life
1:09:38after 60 right because I thinket
1:09:41misunderstood because people don't plan
1:09:44for life after retir I look at at the
1:09:46benefit I have you know if I live to 75
1:09:48say I have from 60 another 15 years of
1:09:51compounding I you know the
1:09:57Warren Buffett made 90% or 95% of his
1:10:00wealth after he was 50 years old because
1:10:02the compound took over I don't think he
1:10:04became a billionaire he was 50 51 and
1:10:06after that he's become worth h100
1:10:07billion okay so all the wealth has come
1:10:09basically while a billion seems a lot of
1:10:11money the next 40 years is when he's
1:10:14really made the money by compounding out
1:10:16there so I mean to me it's great I live
1:10:19to 80 I you know I'm so much happier I
1:10:21comp the money for so much longer yeah
1:10:23and you know you also have said that
1:10:25markets give you the opportunity to be
1:10:27to have that audacity to dream to become
1:10:29a billionaire and a lot of young people
1:10:32have that
1:10:34aspiration and um how does one think
1:10:36about uh achieving that because you have
1:10:39been able to get to a very close
1:10:42Milestone uh by being able to stay on
1:10:44your track being very
1:10:46focused what a stupid statement I made
1:10:49that the audacity to be a billionaire
1:10:51I'm a South kid from Bombay I grew up at
1:10:53HR College I mean Cathedral School what
1:10:55right do I have to be billionaire there
1:10:56are 4,000 billionaires in the world
1:10:59population of you know 6 s billion
1:11:01people there are 4,000 people
1:11:02billionaires I can even dream of being a
1:11:05billionaire suggest how much India has
1:11:07come how F the journey has come and what
1:11:09the opportunity was there for us you
1:11:10know I'm only seeing it in that context
1:11:12you know I'm very happy but that fact
1:11:15that I could even dream of being a
1:11:16billionaire did I achieve it no was the
1:11:18opportunity there yes and that's the
1:11:20reason I say don't go off the relative
1:11:22nonsense that we talk about go with
1:11:24absolute idea because this an absolute
1:11:25opportunity that we had in India will
1:11:27the opportunity be there next 10 20
1:11:29years I think it will be there so I
1:11:30think even someone starting today can
1:11:32have the dreams you know it requires a
1:11:35mindset a focus a passion a delivery
1:11:38some luck of course some skill of course
1:11:40in that but that opportunity is still
1:11:42there so I'm just saying the
1:11:44audaciousness of there 4,000 billions in
1:11:46the world what right do I have to think
1:11:47that I can be a billionaire you know but
1:11:49opportunity was so greate of me and
1:11:51you're dead to dream you have to dead to
1:11:53dream you know my friends who made it
1:11:55dreamed you know so big you know I
1:11:57joined the party late perhaps you know
1:11:59so I'm not again complaining I'm just
1:12:00trying to point out the obvious that the
1:12:02opportunties was there the opportunity
1:12:05is probably still there and Last Thing
1:12:08Before I Let You Go Now compared to you
1:12:10know you've been right about so many
1:12:11sectors in terms of waves defense psus
1:12:15now what is the most hopeful emerging
1:12:16sector according to as I mentioned I
1:12:18would still think the PSU will do well I
1:12:20think they've had a great leg they've
1:12:22corrected I think they'll probably lead
1:12:23a second leg of the market higher so I
1:12:25would look at them selectively that's
1:12:27one and what I told you what I'm feeling
1:12:30increasingly convinced about is the
1:12:32public digital infrastructure space I
1:12:33mean the stocks also correct quite a bit
1:12:35in this correction fall out there but I
1:12:38can just see a completely digital
1:12:40economy and everything whether we do our
1:12:41shopping whether we do our health care
1:12:44whether we do our you know payments
1:12:47whether you do our kvc everything is I
1:12:48mean you go to the airport it's such an
1:12:50amazing experience to have a digital
1:12:52yatra you know see through it so fast so
1:12:54efficient you know I can just see this
1:12:57whole country being transformed by
1:12:58digitally so you know I believe that I
1:13:01want to bet on those companies that are
1:13:02helping that transition absolutely and I
1:13:05also really believe in the digital
1:13:06transformation that our country is going
1:13:08through which is the reason why I
1:13:09launched the show in the first place
1:13:11absolutely and it's been such an honor
1:13:12to host you with us today rames and
1:13:14thank you so much for taking out the
1:13:16time it's it's a great honor for me to
1:13:18use public Airway as public podcast to
1:13:20come and speak so thank you so much for
1:13:22having me and I wish you all the best in
1:13:23your podcast thank you it's not every
1:13:25day that you get to sit across from your
1:13:27icon and ask them all the questions that
1:13:30you wanted answers to and that was the
1:13:32day for me today Mr am deani answered
1:13:34all my questions about investing in the
1:13:36markets and I learned so much from him
1:13:39and I hope you did too if you enjoyed
1:13:41watching this episode please remember to
1:13:43subscribe to our channel so that you get
1:13:45notifications every time we drop another
1:13:47one
1:13:50[Music]

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