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How Lohum Is Building India’s Deeptech & Energy Future | From Critical Minerals to Rare Earth — Transcript

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0:00Anything that we do, material is at core
0:02of it. While all of us are so aware of
0:05AI, software and everything around it,
0:09but that software is dependent on your
0:11machines which is happening because of
0:13certain materials. So, Lohum started in
0:162018. So, it's been roughly 8 years for
0:19us.
0:20The first 3 years were mostly focused on
0:22R&D. So, are you able to use your
0:24material science degree here?
0:26Yes, I think so. I would not say that I
0:29am playing a technical role. It's more
0:31of a managerial / business role, but
0:34it's always good to have technical
0:36background so that you can ask right
0:38questions to the team.
0:39>> Also, can you briefly talk about Lohum's
0:41journey? Like why Lohum is very
0:42important for India? Lohum has been able
0:45to achieve scale in such a difficult
0:47industry, if you think of it. Uh
0:51The The current scenario, the whole wars
0:53that have been fought have been around
0:55energy. This is where Lohum is is coming
0:58into the picture and ensuring that India
1:01has self-dependence around it. So, you
1:03can talk about this R&D part and
1:05building your own IP. So, are you
1:07licensing IP from somewhere else or
1:09totally everything is like, you know,
1:11homegrown inside Lohum? We are very
1:13proud that everything, every technology
1:15that we currently use has been developed
1:17in-house. We have not licensed any
1:19technology from anyone across the world.
1:22We We are continuously filing patents.
1:24We are continuously
1:26generating new IPs, trade secrets. So,
1:29yeah, that that has been in the core DNA
1:30of the company. So, you can talk about
1:32China. Like as you mentioned like, you
1:34know, 80% of the rare earth magnet is
1:36controlled by China. So, what does it
1:38actually mean? What if that supply chain
1:40disrupt someday? Uh
1:42There are various applications in which
1:46rare earths are used, right?
1:48Any electronic device, be it your mobile
1:50phone, be it your
1:52uh
1:53petrol diesel vehicle which is called
1:55ICE has tremendous of rare earth
1:58material in it. But what will happen if
2:01the China tomorrow starts uh stops
2:03exporting it? Uh
2:05anything which is which use uh one form
2:08of energy to be converted to another, it
2:10it becomes really difficult. Speaking
2:11about Lohum, like what is the
2:13continuation of Lohum? Like in India, I
2:15think Lohum is one of the leading
2:17manufacturers and producers of these
2:19minerals. So, Lohum is the market leader
2:21uh in this space. Uh in terms of uh
2:24revenue running we are close to 2,400
2:26crores of revenue running.
2:28Uh we have more than 10 facilities
2:30spread across different parts of the
2:32world. Uh and input capacity of roughly
2:3550,000 metric tons is is what currently
2:38we have. So, it's a humongous scale uh
2:40and the company has grown
2:42uh
2:43uh spectacularly in last uh 8 years or
2:45so. Thinking about Lohum's like you know
2:48own value chain, like how everything is
2:50organized. So, uh we have built this
2:52ecosystem slowly and slowly, right? The
2:54first step, of course, is is collection,
2:57uh which is where you reach out to your
2:58customers, pick up the material, bring
3:00it to your warehouse, uh then sort it
3:03out.
3:04For sorting, then in some cases you
3:05would also need to do dismantling,
3:07depending on the kind of material. Uh
3:09then there is something called a second
3:11life. We also look at material which can
3:14be reused. So, the reusable material
3:16goes to reusable line where uh the new
3:18systems are created again. And the ones
3:20that are not usable, they go for first
3:22uh your uh I would say mechanical
3:24shredding, followed by defining, and
3:26then finally into a productized form,
3:28which is then sold off to the market.
3:30Wow, like everything is indigenously
3:32built here. So, it is really great to
3:34see that Indian Indian engineers are
3:36doing that here. So, for us, if you talk
3:39about it,
3:40uh
3:41removing India's dependence on uh on
3:45foreign entities uh for these critical
3:47materials, uh if if we are able to do
3:50that, uh that's a that's a huge uh
3:52success for us.
3:57>> [music]
4:01>> Hi everyone. Welcome back to another
4:03episode of The Rocket Media. Today I'm
4:05Greater Noida at Lohum. Lohum is India's
4:07largest producer of critical minerals
4:09and advanced materials. And with me is
4:11Chetan Jain. He is senior vice president
4:13at Lohum of business operations and who
4:15is also my senior from IIT Kanpur.
4:18So welcome to Chetan. How are you? I am
4:20good. Thank you so much Ankit for
4:21hosting me. Okay, great.
4:24So before entering into Lohum's journey,
4:26I would love to know about your journey.
4:27Like prior to Lohum, were you always
4:29into deep engineering or core
4:31engineering?
4:33Yeah, my journey has been very
4:35different. So
4:37I was born in a small town called
4:38Usikala, which is very close to Mathura.
4:41I did my schooling from Jaipur and then
4:42did my majors in material science. After
4:45that I worked at Bhilai Steel Plant as
4:48hardcore operators as engineer where I
4:51was making steel for 3 years. After that
4:53like a lot of students I went for
4:56my MBA and did my MBA. Since then I have
5:00been in multiple industries. I started
5:02out my career post steel in pharma. I
5:05was at Laurus Labs for 3 years.
5:07Then I moved to startup where I was part
5:09of the founding team at Revv self-drive
5:11cars.
5:12I was there for roughly 7 years. Then I
5:14moved to EdTech where I worked at Lead
5:17School.
5:19And since 2022 I have been associated
5:21with Lohum. So it's been roughly 3 and
5:231/2 years and I'm enjoying every bit of
5:25it. Wow, such a diverse experience that
5:27you have.
5:29So why did you choose Lohum? Like I'm
5:31sure that you must have many offers from
5:32other firms as well. So why Lohum?
5:35So Lohum, if you think of it,
5:38I would say all the experience that I
5:40gained over a period of time, right?
5:42Whether it's my education with which was
5:45in material science and then building
5:47something from up ground and then also
5:50helping the society in a way, right?
5:54This is where Lohum was at the
5:56intersection of all of it. So,
5:59me being a technical person from
6:00material science background, this
6:02becomes a core part of it. Then leading
6:04the business here,
6:06it comes from my educational background
6:08in MBA and then doing something which is
6:11good for environment, that automatically
6:13comes with it. Now, if you think about
6:16Lohum, it's it's not just helping
6:20environment, but it's also helping move
6:22India further ahead. So, there are a lot
6:24of tailwinds in the sector. The
6:26technology that we are talking about,
6:27the western world is still struggling
6:29with it. If you talk about US, there are
6:31a lot of companies which are not doing
6:33good. In fact, Envia Elements recently
6:36went bankrupt. Lohum has been able to
6:38achieve scale in such a difficult
6:40industry, which is really phenomenal.
6:42So, if you think about companies outside
6:45China, Lohum stands as one of the core
6:47pillar which has been growing by leaps
6:50and bounds. So, are you able to use your
6:52material science degree here? Yes, I
6:55think so. It's
6:57I would not say I'm saying
6:59I would not say that I am playing a
7:01technical role. It's more of a
7:03managerial / business role, but it's
7:06always good to have technical background
7:08so that you can ask right questions to
7:09the team. Okay. No, but it's still like
7:12most of us like when we graduate from
7:14like our colleges, so we ended up being
7:16a programmers or something else. So,
7:18that's why I I asked this question. No,
7:20no, definitely. So,
7:22at the end of the day we are dealing
7:23with batteries which has lithium,
7:25nickel, cobalt or we are dealing with
7:27material which has rare earth elements
7:29or copper or aluminum. So, of course,
7:32the depth of technical knowledge that is
7:33taught at IIT is very different versus
7:36what what we need here, but there is a
7:38particular focus area which you need to
7:40develop.
7:41I would not say it's
7:43everything is useful, but a lot of it
7:45helps you recall that there is something
7:47that you learned at that point in time
7:48and get you up to speed. So, things like
7:51hydrometallurgy, doing doing
7:54doing reactions, so all those things
7:56just come back, right? We have not done
7:58that for last 10 15 years, but here
8:00that's what we do day in and day out.
8:03Okay, great. Also, can you briefly talk
8:05about Lohum's journey? Like while Lohum
8:07is very important for India, like if you
8:09have to explain me okay key
8:11why does it matters? Because it is one
8:13of the most unheard domains. Like many
8:15people don't have any idea about these
8:17things in India. So, if you can briefly
8:18talk about the journey and Lohum. So,
8:21deep tech it has come into limelight
8:23very recently, but if you think of it
8:27the the current scenarios the whole wars
8:30that have been fought have been around
8:31energy. And this is the time when world
8:34is transitioning from one form of energy
8:36to another form of energy. Fossil fuels
8:38was the main source of energy, whereas
8:40now everyone is talking about
8:41renewables, right? When you talk about
8:44renewables, renewables are not not
8:46available 24/7 that you need to have
8:49some sort of power backup associated
8:51with it. So, to asso- to be energy
8:54independent, you need lot of resources.
8:57Unfortunately, at this point in time
8:59India doesn't have those resources
9:02not even from primary sources. Primary
9:04means mines.
9:05We are still import dependent. Be it
9:08your petrol, diesel, whatever coal we
9:10are importing a lot from outside. Solar
9:13is free. The batteries which is still
9:15being imported, so it helped so while it
9:18helps us move from one form of energy to
9:20another, but still there is lot of
9:21geopolitical risk. This is where Lohum
9:24comes into the picture. Something which
9:25has already come into India, how to use
9:28that again and again and again while
9:31being in India is the core focus of the
9:33company. Apart from lithium ion battery
9:35recycling, there is another sector rare
9:37earth elements. So, it's been news
9:39fairly recently because of the trade
9:41wars between the two
9:43superpowers.
9:44And India was also impacted where for
9:46some times magnets were not being
9:49were not being exported to India and
9:51there certain limitations on the
9:52application for which it can be used.
9:54This is where we are taking our next
9:56next leap where we are moving from rare
9:59earth oxides and then fully integrated
10:02magnet plant which is going to be set up
10:04in in Meerut and we are making a huge
10:07investment around it. Apart from that,
10:09we are also processing platinum group
10:11materials PGM for which we have already
10:13set up refinery in Hyderabad which is
10:16still
10:17which is already operational. So, if you
10:19think of it,
10:20all these sectors, so anything that we
10:23do, material is at core of it. While all
10:25of us are so aware of AI software and
10:29everything around it,
10:31but that software is dependent on your
10:33machines which is happening because of
10:35certain materials. This is where Lohum
10:38is is coming into the picture and
10:40ensuring that India has self-dependence
10:43around it. Okay, great like the kind of
10:46things that you have talked about. But
10:47talking about Lohum's initial journey,
10:49you guys started with recycling of
10:51batteries and those things. So, when we
10:54hear this word recycling, like normally
10:56what things that come up to our mind is
10:58like, you know, kind of waste things and
11:01kind of things that we have at home. But
11:02we talk when we talk about recycling of
11:03critical minerals, it's a whole
11:05different conversation. So, help us
11:07understand like, you know, where are
11:08rare earth in our day-to-day life like,
11:10you know, which can be recycled or which
11:12you guys like, you know, a score shop.
11:15So, Lohum started in 2018. So, it's been
11:18roughly 8 years for us.
11:20The first 3 years were mostly focused on
11:23R&D
11:24where we were developing the technology
11:26and ensuring that we have the right
11:30and the technology that we have is
11:32everything developed in house. We have
11:33not gone out and imported technology
11:36from Europe, US, or China. Everything
11:38has been developed in house. So, the
11:40first 3 years were mostly focused on R&D
11:42where of course the revenues were
11:44minimal.
11:45And then we started our first plant in
11:482021. And then from there on we kept
11:52expanding across various lines. So, we
11:54first started with the single plant
11:56which which was black mass production,
11:57then moved into refining materials, and
11:59then from one single plant as the
12:01capacity expanded we moved to different
12:03categories of material and having
12:05different plants. Now,
12:07at the core of it the idea was always
12:09there, right? If you
12:11like you rightly mentioned when you talk
12:12about recycling we talk about waste. And
12:14the things that come into our mind is
12:16Kabadiwala. Right.
12:17>> Kabadiwala, this is a dirty job, but
12:19that's not how we should be looking at
12:22it and that aspect needs to change a
12:24lot. A lot of material, a lot of wealth
12:27is going to waste because of this
12:28attitude of ours. Thankfully, India is a
12:31very value conscious society. Even if I
12:34will give my newspaper, I will expect
12:36some money coming back from it. So, I
12:38know where is the value. Now, that value
12:40helps us
12:42create that environment where the
12:44collection should happen, right? Once
12:46the collection happen then the recycling
12:47can take place. It should not go to dump
12:51in the ground which only pollutes the
12:53environment, but at the same time it's a
12:55loss of
12:57valuable resources. The way we look at
13:00materials is we focus on categories
13:03where dollar density is high. What I
13:05mean by that?
13:07I don't focus on categories where for 1
13:09kg I'm just earning 5 rupees or 10
13:10rupees, right? When you talk about
13:12categories where
13:14per kg of material cost is on a higher
13:17side, that's where it starts making
13:19economically economics really really
13:21attractive.
13:23Right. And so, talking about this whole
13:25recycling and circular economy like you
13:27know as you mentioned it is very
13:28important for India to have this
13:30critical minerals and we don't mine a
13:33lot of critical minerals in India but we
13:35import lot of things and once we import
13:38this is going to stand India. So if we
13:40can talk about this circular economy and
13:42how big this opportunity is in terms of
13:45recycling. So this is a humongous
13:47opportunity in my opinion. So if you
13:49think of it uh there is various kind of
13:53materials which are mined from those
13:55materials first there are salts which
13:57are formed then there is something
13:58called as cathode active material. And
14:01from those cathode active material the
14:02cells are manufactured. At this point in
14:05time India is almost 100% dependent on
14:08imports of cells from outside
14:11country. A lot of it comes from China.
14:13Okay. India is assembling these cells to
14:17to create battery packs. Now these
14:18battery packs is what you see in your
14:20two-wheelers, three-wheelers,
14:21four-wheelers but inside what you see
14:24are the cells which are being imported
14:26mostly from three countries China, South
14:28Korea and in some cases Japan.
14:30Uh so the value chain is is not
14:32localized at all. Uh government has come
14:35out with PLI performance linked
14:37incentives and there companies like
14:39Exide and Ola and Reliance who are
14:42working to create that ecosystem. Even
14:44if that ecosystem is created
14:46the back the back integrated value chain
14:49which is around cathode active material
14:50or salts that's still a missing from
14:53from India which means we will still be
14:55dependent from outside world where where
14:57we are importing salts or cathode active
14:59material. So
15:01what Lohum does is once this material
15:03has come into India we then process it,
15:06convert it into salts and now for now
15:09into cathode active material. So that
15:11helps us remove that dependency on the
15:14outside world. There are many companies
15:17who are focusing on scaling up cell
15:19manufacturing plant but the backward
15:21supply chain is something which we are
15:23focusing on and we are trying to do to
15:26ensure that the material remains within
15:28India. We do have plans to
15:31to import primary material, which is
15:33material from mines and that convert
15:35into cathode active material. So, we are
15:37just not focusing on secondary source of
15:39material. If we have to scale up really
15:41fast, we have to look at primary source
15:43of material, too. Okay, great. Can you
15:45put a number to this like, you know, how
15:47big this opportunity is? Number one, and
15:49second thing how much we import and we
15:52domestically, like, you know, use rare
15:54earth in our
15:55life as a country? Sure. So, when you
15:58talk about
15:59the opportunity in terms of capacity,
16:02India has aspiration of setting up 100
16:05gigawatt hour of
16:07batteries
16:08in 2030. And that comes with
16:12honorable Prime Minister's mission of
16:14India being
16:15net zero carbon by 2070. So, there are
16:18certain targets which government has
16:19already
16:20already put in place. And 1 gigawatt
16:22hour is roughly 5,000 tons of waste. So,
16:25if 100 gigawatt hour facilities are
16:27being set up, 20% is waste or
16:29end-of-life different kind of material.
16:31So, you're talking about 20 gigawatt
16:33hour. So,
16:35So, which which is your roughly 100,000
16:37tons of material. So, you can assume and
16:40every every ton of material is roughly
16:42$1 per kg. So, it's a humongous amount
16:44of opportunity that that we are talking
16:46about. And this is just one category
16:48which I am which I'm speaking about
16:50lithium ion batteries. Then PGM PGM is
16:53used a lot in the pharma sector. It is
16:56also used in refinery. And then your PGM
16:58is also used in in vehicles like these
17:00in catalytic converters. Right. So,
17:03different category of materials, of
17:05course, has different applications. And
17:08in terms of market size, the global
17:10market size is is in hundreds of
17:12billions of dollars. Right. I think it's
17:14in trillions of dollars.
17:16>> [laughter]
17:17>> If you include iron iron as well yes for
17:19sure. Right and like talking about Lohum
17:22like what is the contribution of Lohum
17:23like in India I think Lohum is one of
17:26the leading manufacturers and producers
17:28of these minerals. So what is the scale
17:30of Lohum on which Lohum is operating and
17:32what kind of minerals you are working on
17:34we can talk about that.
17:36So Lohum is the market leader in this
17:38space
17:39with almost
17:4175 to 80% of capacity across India.
17:46The material that we currently produce
17:49at scale are your lithium nickel cobalt
17:52aluminum copper graphite then platinum
17:56palladium and now mixture earth oxide.
17:59So
18:00in terms of revenue run rate we are
18:02close to 2400 crores of revenue run
18:05rate. We have more than 10 facilities
18:08spread across different parts of the
18:09world.
18:10We are setting up one outside India in
18:13in Sharjah in UAE which is directly in
18:17partnership with UAE government so they
18:19are equity stakeholder
18:21and input capacity of roughly 50,000
18:24metric tons is what currently we have.
18:27So it's a humongous scale and the
18:29company has grown
18:31spectacularly in last 8 years or so.
18:35Wow like the kind of production capacity
18:37that you have mentioned and where you
18:39aim to be at like you know in in 3-5
18:41years like you know okay what will be
18:43the production capacity?
18:45So we are looking to grow anywhere
18:47between 5x to 10x on various metal
18:50output. So in next 5 years we are
18:52looking to grow anywhere between 5x to
18:5510x depending on
18:56various kind of metal demand. Certain
18:58materials have
19:00expectedly very high demand like copper
19:04because it is used a lot in every EV.
19:07Some materials will have lower demand so
19:09the capacity expansion there will be
19:11along with market expectation. I would
19:14say the next milestone is is IPO which
19:17is expected by end of 2027. Okay, well,
19:21great. And
19:23Chetan talking about China like as you
19:25mentioned key like you know 80% of the
19:27rare earth magnet is controlled by
19:28China. So, what does it actually mean in
19:31terms of like you know day-to-day basis
19:33like what if that supply chain disrupt
19:35someday? So, what will be the
19:37consequences of it and what does it
19:38actually mean?
19:40So, uh
19:41there are various applications in which
19:44rare earths are used, right?
19:46Any electronic device, be it your mobile
19:49phone, be it your
19:51uh
19:52petrol diesel vehicle which is called
19:54ice
19:55internal combustion engine vehicle.
19:57Uh
19:58it has tremendous amount of rare earth
20:00material in it. Uh so, while rare earth
20:03elements are called rare earth, these
20:05are they are not truly rare. So, the
20:06material is available, it's
20:08processing yes like which is which is
20:10difficult and it's also
20:12economically
20:13difficult for you to make it viable.
20:16But, what will happen if the China
20:18tomorrow starts stops exporting it? Uh
20:22anything which is which use
20:24one form of energy to be converted to
20:26another, it becomes really difficult.
20:28Rare earth also find tremendous
20:30application in your missile
20:32applications, defense applications. And
20:35this is where this whole geopolitics is
20:37at play. It's not just consumer goods
20:39that we are talking about. It has
20:41significant impact on your defense
20:44applications. If you indigenize your
20:47your drone manufacturing or your fighter
20:50jet manufacturing, but if you don't have
20:52these kind of materials available, you
20:54will not be able to
20:56to be at top of I would say performance
20:59for all these materials. So, uh and
21:02that's where if you think of it, the
21:03complete uh
21:05the whole world is talking a lot about
21:08how they can be independent in terms of
21:10their rare earth elements supply chain.
21:13Okay, so we truly need Atmanirbhar
21:15Bharat in critical minerals. Yes,
21:17[laughter]
21:18and to be in safe position. Yes, and it
21:21is
21:22While we don't realize it, it is inside
21:24everywhere. We don't even know
21:33Basically, what you are doing you are
21:34converting your electrical energy into
21:36mechanical energy.
21:40All those need magnets. Small small
21:41magnets, but it's it's it's it's still
21:44needed. Right. And even many of Indian
21:46China trade
21:49What do you mostly import is electronics
21:51item? Like Indian China trade deficit is
21:53more than 100 billion dollar and mostly
21:55are electronic items. So, I think if any
21:58day it stops, like we are going to be in
22:00a bad position.
22:01>> [laughter]
22:01>> No, it's it's it's a mutual dependency,
22:04of course.
22:05So, a lot of it has uh are products
22:08which of course China Everyone wants
22:10money, right? At the end of the day. So,
22:12China of course wants money. It's It's
22:14the
22:15It's the things which are of critical
22:16importance where uh they know they have
22:18a nerve of them.
22:20So,
22:22uh
22:22They know this is critical because of so
22:24and so reasons and that's why they can
22:26play around with it, right? If you
22:31everything is going to stop tomorrow,
22:33right? But things like magnets, if they
22:35stop coming, then definitely it will it
22:37will have its own impact on the
22:39ecosystem.
22:39>> right. And Chetan, talking about India,
22:41I think India is not a
22:43resource is scarce country. Like we have
22:45rare earths like in many parts of the
22:47country. So, why are we not utilizing
22:50them? What is the like you know key
22:51technological like you know key setback
22:54that we have like you know
22:56Why Why are we not unable to like you
22:57know process them? So, uh
23:00In my opinion, it's it's more about
23:04these things being in focus. Uh
23:08Magnets were earlier produced in US.
23:10Slowly, China started taking over.
23:12People didn't think too much about it.
23:14But now everyone realizes the
23:16criticality of these materials. So if
23:17you
23:18uh the government has come out with
23:20national critical mineral mission. Even
23:21in this budget, there is talk of rare
23:23earth corridor uh around India's uh
23:26India's beaches. So there is something
23:28called as monazite, which is monazite
23:29sand, which is found across these
23:31beaches.
23:32Now,
23:34of course, it's difficult, but it's not
23:36impossible. Now, when the when both
23:38private sector as well as public sector
23:40starts focusing on it, it can be done.
23:43I would say till this point in time, it
23:44was more around people were doing it
23:46economically, so no one was focusing on
23:49doing it uh in-house, right? The the
23:51whole world was relying on uh on China
23:54for for all of this. Now, everyone
23:56realizes that this starts becoming a
23:57weak point. So even if the economics are
23:59a little bit on a higher side, people
24:01would want to de-risk their supply
24:03chains, and they would want multiple
24:04sources. And which is already started
24:06happening. Companies a lot of companies
24:09are vying for uh so there is a scheme by
24:12uh Ministry of uh Electronics and IT uh
24:15ECMS scheme uh Electronics Component
24:18Manufacturing Scheme
24:19uh which which Lohum also got uh from
24:22government, which is to manufacture
24:23magnets for your uh consumer
24:25electronics. Then Ministry of Heavy
24:27Industries is working on another scheme
24:29uh which is for
24:31uh magnets for uh big big things like
24:34EVs and all. Uh then uh
24:37Ministry of Mines is working on
24:38different uh other uh schemes, which is
24:40also around critical minerals. So, the
24:43focus has come back. Now things will
24:44start moving forward uh at a rapid pace.
24:48Yeah, I think recently rare earth is
24:50like, you know, very hot uh topic of the
24:52town. Like, you know, everyone is
24:53talking about rare earth. And Government
24:56of India is also focusing on that and
25:00India is demographically so rich like I
25:02think like you know there is so much of
25:04minerals are in India so in future what
25:07role Lohum can play in bridging this gap
25:09of processing our own rare earth that is
25:12there in India already.
25:15So
25:16the way to look at it is
25:18that certain sources of material
25:20which will be economically viable and
25:22there are certain sources which will not
25:24be economically viable.
25:25In processing In processing yes. The
25:28route that we are currently taking is is
25:30doing it via secondary sources. We
25:32already know there's a lot of magnets
25:34which have gone out of uses from
25:37different sources. So we are focusing on
25:39those your MRI machines, your hard disk,
25:41all of these have magnets. So we are
25:43first focusing on that and there is
25:44enough raw material which is which is
25:46available.
25:47Similarly for lithium-ion batteries
25:50your giga factories have started coming
25:53up and they generate tremendous amount
25:55of uh waste during their
25:58production stabilization phase. And then
26:00your generation one vehicles have
26:04started reaching end of life. So
26:07the sources are available. It's just
26:08that how quickly you want to ramp up the
26:11production depending on the demand and
26:13that's where we are seeing tremendous
26:14demand on on on critical materials like
26:17lithium, magnesium and cobalt.
26:19And if you can also talk about that
26:21sustainability part like you know in
26:23terms of mining versus recycling and
26:26like what sustainability looks at Lohum
26:28from your perspective. Sure. So if you
26:31if you talk about mining
26:33uh
26:34just to put in some numbers your uh
26:37cobalt concentration is 1 to 2% in in in
26:40a typical mine. And then when you talk
26:43about batteries the concentration is as
26:45high as 15 to 25 30% right
26:50uh, in in mass. So if you have such a
26:52concentrated material
26:54it becomes very easy to process it. That
26:56is point number one. Point number two,
26:58the carbon dioxide emissions are
27:00significantly lower
27:02uh, because you already having a
27:04consistent type of feedstock. You know
27:06what kind of material is coming in. The
27:08impurity profile is also clear to you.
27:10Whereas, material coming in from mines
27:12has a multiple kind of impurity profile.
27:14And then you need to wash off the dust,
27:17concentrate the whole material that is
27:19coming from mines. Which is also, I
27:22would say,
27:23uh,
27:24100x
27:26water consumption. So, you're wasting
27:29100 times more water in case of your
27:31primary material versus your secondary
27:33material. So, your secondary material is
27:36very light on ecosystem and that's why
27:39uh, there has been so many studies which
27:40which
27:41again and again prove the same and all
27:43of us are aware that's true, right? And
27:45that's why there has been so much focus
27:47on for everyone to to go via circular
27:50ecosystem and not follow a linear
27:52economy.
27:53Right. And talking about Lohum's like
27:56you know whole value chain, like how
27:57everything is organized. Like it's not
27:59just about collecting and recycling. In
28:01between there is processing, there is
28:03manufacturing, a lot of things. So, if
28:05you can talk about that.
28:07So, we have built this ecosystem slowly
28:10and slowly, right? The first step, of
28:12course, is is collection. Which is where
28:14you reach out to your customers, pick up
28:16the material, bring it to your
28:17warehouse, then sort it out.
28:20Post sorting, then in some cases you
28:22will also need to do dismantling
28:24depending on the kind of material.
28:26Then there is something called a second
28:27life. We also look at material which can
28:30be reused. So, reuse is in fact better
28:32for environment compared to your
28:34recycling because you're extending the
28:36life of the same asset. It still has
28:38value of recycling in future. It's just
28:41that your asset utilization is
28:43increasing. So, we we do second life as
28:45well, which is where
28:47it's it's more beneficial for
28:49environment. We have our own algorithms
28:51technology where we
28:52where we figure out which material is
28:54reusable and which material is not. So,
28:56the reusable material goes to reusable
28:58line where the new systems are created
29:01again. And the ones which are not
29:02reusable, they go for first your I would
29:05say mechanical shredding followed by
29:07refining and then finally into a
29:10productized form which is then sold off
29:11to the market. Of course, there are
29:14different set of people who are expert
29:16in different operations and and those
29:20operations are also not centralized. The
29:22operations are
29:24at across different parts of country as
29:26well from where the material is being
29:27picked up. So, we have different
29:28collection points spread across the
29:30country as well. Wow. And what is your
29:33role in
29:34day-to-day basis? What a day in your
29:35life looks like?
29:38Every day is very different like this
29:40one.
29:40>> [laughter]
29:41>> Okay.
29:42So,
29:43you know, this is such a new industry.
29:47You are thrown different kind of
29:49challenges every day. You need to figure
29:51out how to bring the material from
29:53outside the country. You need to
29:55understand various kind of materials
29:57which is being generated. You need to
29:59work with different kind of
30:00stakeholders. So, I also take care of
30:03sourcing of material which is like
30:05strategic partnership with
30:07OEMs to ensure that the material is
30:10coming to us. We have long-term
30:11partnership with them. Everyone have
30:13their different expectations. So, we
30:14understand those expectations, customize
30:16the requirement and then go back and
30:18give the proposal to them. And that's
30:20why we have been able to manage that
30:21kind of market share.
30:23And operations, of course, everyone's
30:26technology is different, everyone's
30:29output is different. So, we need to also
30:32ensure that we are treating it the right
30:35way and R&D is a core focus area for us
30:38as a company. More than 10% of our
30:40workforce is is
30:42is is employed at R&D. Because R&D is
30:45what keeps us ahead of the curve. This
30:48is this is a very fast-changing
30:49industry, right? And we are looking to
30:51expand both horizontally and vertically
30:54into different material category, but
30:56even within the materials that we are
30:57currently processing,
30:59go further down as in create value-added
31:01products. It needs rigor, a lot of
31:03research and development work.
31:06And I would say that's one of the core
31:07focus area where a lot of investment of
31:10the company is going. And Chetan, like
31:12Lohum is also I think setting up India's
31:14first integrated rare earth element
31:17magnet manufacturing facility.
31:19So, if you can walk us through that
31:20like, you know, how long it will take to
31:23for it to be operational and what
31:25exactly it is going to look like. Sure.
31:27So, I'd say that's a three-stage
31:30process. I'd say four-stage process. We
31:33have already
31:34completed two stages.
31:36The process is already developed at R&D
31:39level.
31:40And then, um
31:41First, you create mixed rare earth
31:43oxides,
31:44which is again a different kind of
31:47requirement. So, we have already done
31:48that, created a pilot line. Now, we are
31:51in the process of establishing magnet
31:54pilot line, which is expected to be
31:56completed this year by October. So,
31:58October 2026 when is when we have fully
32:01integrated pilot pilot magnet line
32:03ready. And then, we are looking to scale
32:05it up next year. So, by next year,
32:07October to November 2027, we will have
32:10fully scaled up
32:12magnet line running, and that's where
32:15we we have taken up land in Meerut.
32:18That's that's where that plant is going
32:19to come.
32:20And to that integrated word, so
32:22end-to-end you're going to have
32:24everything from Lohum only.
32:26Yes. So,
32:27what integrated essentially means is
32:29like because this is a different
32:31processes, so we are creating sintered
32:33magnets as well as your mixed rare earth
32:36oxide along the same line. It's not
32:39a broken line. So, everything will be
32:41happening in the full line itself. Okay,
32:43great. And now we'll talk about like you
32:45know the challenges that you are facing
32:47in day-to-day life as a ecosystem and as
32:49a company. So, talking about one of the
32:51biggest challenges is sourcing enough
32:53batteries and working with lot of
32:56stakeholders. So, how you incentivize
32:59this collection and what is the current
33:00volume of material that that is coming
33:02in and what is the challenges that
33:03you're facing as a company?
33:05So, we we are already at 25,000 metric
33:07tons of capacity and we are running
33:09almost at 75 to 80% of of utilization.
33:14India is is is a great source of
33:17material and if you look at the EV
33:19penetration numbers,
33:21your four-wheeler penetration has
33:23already crossed somewhere 5 and 1/2%.
33:25Your two-wheeler penetration has crossed
33:2710%. So, the market is growing rapidly.
33:30Even apart from that, we are sourcing
33:32material from outside the country,
33:34right?
33:35Like every company, Lohum also believes
33:38in diversifying the sources. So, we are
33:40not just relying on one source of feed
33:42stock. So, there are multiple sources of
33:44feed stock both from domestic and
33:46international market. Even from domestic
33:48market, you have giga factories, you
33:50have you have battery manufacturers, you
33:52have vehicle manufacturers, you have
33:54insurance companies. So, all these
33:55become source of raw material to us. Of
33:58course, when we are the way we think
34:00about capacity expansion is we look at
34:02the market how much of the material is
34:04available. So, your capacity should be
34:06in tandem with how market is expanding
34:08and touch wood, our market has been
34:10growing beautifully well now. And and
34:11talking about India like you know
34:12recycling, but most of the sector is I
34:14think informal.
34:16No, that's not true. So, there is
34:17something called as battery waste
34:19management rules which came out in 2022.
34:22Now,
34:23which which put owners both on producers
34:25and recyclers to function in a certain
34:27way.
34:28Producers are responsible to get their
34:30material recycled in an authorized
34:32facility. So, your mobility sector,
34:36every battery which is going into the
34:38mobility sector, the end point is going
34:40to be dealership. If you purchase a
34:42vehicle today,
34:43you will not just throw away the
34:44battery. If there is an issue, you will
34:46go to dealership, get a new battery,
34:47which in which case the battery is back
34:49to
34:50the OEM. And the OEM will not send it to
34:52informal market. It will come back to
34:53the formal market. The material that
34:55only goes to the informal market is
34:57something which is being thrown in the
34:58dustbin, Right.
35:00>> which is something which you are
35:01which you are selling at Kilo Kabaap to
35:03a Kabadiwala. Mostly like if you talk
35:04about the like you know daily basis.
35:06>> consumer electronic battery and that to
35:08a very limited ex- extent. After these
35:11battery waste management rules, most of
35:13the market has formalized. So, your
35:16e-waste is still where a lot of
35:18challenges are there, but thankfully the
35:20battery waste management rules came at
35:22the right time. And this is where the
35:24sector is mostly formalized. Yeah, I
35:26think in the next decade the EV is going
35:28to explode. So, Islom is ready to scale
35:31with that like you know to face with
35:33that wave.
35:34>> [laughter]
35:34>> Yeah, so we we have been profitable for
35:37last 4 years now.
35:39We have raised more than 100 million in
35:40capital.
35:42And I don't think capital is going to be
35:44an issue. So, as soon as uh
35:46the the material availability is there
35:49and
35:50we see the ecosystem getting developed,
35:53we are more than happy to put in those
35:54capacities. You are profitable for more
35:57than 4 years now.
35:58>> Yes. And initially you spent some 3 to 4
36:01years on R&D. Yes. So, you can say the
36:04first three, four after first three,
36:06four years we have been profitable. So,
36:08financial
36:09uh
36:10controls are very very strong in the
36:11company.
36:13From I would say day one we were we were
36:16clear that
36:18we would not want to build an build a
36:20company which is which is losing money.
36:22We have to sustain it for the long term.
36:24And most of the capital that is being
36:26raised is for capacity expansion or
36:28expansion into new categories of
36:30material. But sustaining like the
36:33current business is sustaining on
36:35itself. And Chetan talking about this
36:37R&D part and building your own IP. So
36:40are you licensing IP from somewhere else
36:42or totally everything is like you know
36:44homegrown inside Lohum?
36:46Also
36:47as I was mentioning uh more than 10% of
36:50our workforce is involved in R&D and
36:53these are
36:54guys with PhDs from reputed institutes
36:58all across the world. Uh when when you
37:01make such kind of investments, you
37:03typically would prefer to generate your
37:05own IP.
37:06Uh so we are very proud that everything
37:09every technology that we currently use
37:11has been developed in-house. We have not
37:12licensed any technology from anyone
37:15across the world.
37:16Uh we we are continuously filing
37:18patents. We are continuously uh
37:20generating new IPs, trade secrets. So
37:23yeah, that that has been the core DNA of
37:25the company. Wow, like everything is
37:27indigenously built here and I always
37:30thought like you know there is a risk
37:31that like you know India always had to
37:32import technologies from outside. So it
37:36is really great to see that Indian
37:37Indian engineers are doing that here.
37:39Yeah, of course China is
37:41I would say ahead on the curve. They are
37:44the leaders but
37:46but we we are not too far behind. We are
37:48following up and thankfully everything
37:50is happening within India. So that
37:53that's a that's a great I would say more
37:57pat on the back for us. Okay, and as a
37:59ecosystem like you know how can we
38:01bridge that gap like you know what we
38:03have and what we can use like as an
38:06ecosystem? So
38:07in India the problem is we keep on
38:10keeping waste material in our houses,
38:12right? Even if you open your drawer, you
38:13will find two three phones I don't know
38:15why they are there for any other reason,
38:17yeah for whatever reason, right? Uh
38:20People don't understand the the
38:21importance of that, right? So, if all
38:23that material starts coming in over a
38:26period of time, India can become
38:27self-reliant. Of course, uh new
38:29technologies will have their own
38:31requirement, but if you talk about
38:32consumer electronics, mostly the market
38:34is more or less saturated. It's like you
38:37can take those back, create those into
38:39new new material which can be reused.
38:42So, self-sustenance, of course, in
38:44certain categories is possible, but if I
38:47talk about EVs, right? Uh the market is
38:50still growing tremendously, right?
38:52That's where you will have to have
38:54another sources of material coming in.
38:57Be it from within India, be it from
38:59outside India,
39:00uh whether in the form of raw material,
39:02whether in the form of
39:04final product. So, then that's a
39:05reliance that we still still that's a
39:08gap that we still need to fill. Okay.
39:10And Chetan, if you can also talk about
39:11like, you know, the fundamental
39:13breakthroughs that your R&D team has
39:14cracked or the technologies that you
39:16have developed. So, if you can talk
39:18about that.
39:19So, uh In terms of achieving that purity
39:21and the rest of the things. So, uh
39:25I will leave China apart because they
39:27they are the leaders, right?
39:29Uh but if you talk about Western world,
39:32lithium refining yield yield is your
39:35output by input is
39:37close to 60 65% in in different parts of
39:40the world. At Lohum, we have already
39:43crossed 85% and that too I'm talking
39:46about battery grade lithium production.
39:48Uh battery grade, of course, uh in terms
39:50of purity, that's that's difficult and
39:53getting that along with yield is is is
39:56again a tremendous challenge because
39:58these are the two things which decide
40:00your economics and profitability.
40:02>> Economics, like is it economically
40:03viable or not? Similarly, on on
40:07on your complete battery, we are able to
40:09recover more than 99% of material
40:13and the yield in cobalt and nickel are
40:15are north of 96, 97%. Wow.
40:19And talking about like, you know, any
40:22critical technologies that you are
40:23working on, like what we can expect
40:26next? There are a few, but I I would
40:29want I would not want to talk about them
40:31right now. Once we reach a stage where
40:34we are comfortable talking about it,
40:36we're more than happy to discuss again.
40:37And
40:38are you getting good support from the
40:40government on this and talking about the
40:42other collaborations like in India?
40:45One of the biggest problem is people
40:46working in silos. Talking about
40:48industry, academia, and government. So,
40:50are you collaborating with the academia
40:53and are you getting good support from
40:54the government?
40:56>> [gasps]
40:57>> Thankfully, this has been industry which
40:59has been
41:01a lot of focus from different parts of
41:04uh
41:05I would say government or industrial
41:07bodies or your
41:09I would say think tanks as well.
41:11Uh if you talk about I'll go one by one.
41:13If you talk about uh government,
41:15government came out with national
41:17critical mineral mission.
41:19And then there are PLI schemes which
41:21have come up. Now, within NCMM,
41:23recycling scheme is something for which
41:24again Lohum is is approved, right? Uh
41:28so, there is lot of focus, lot of
41:29support, and there are continuous
41:31discussions and dialogues which keep on
41:33happening with government. Government uh
41:36keeps on calling various industry
41:37stakeholders for uh discussions,
41:39consultations on various policies. So,
41:42that focus is is right there. Then you
41:44talk about think tanks because this is
41:46such a critical sector now and the whole
41:48government is focusing it.
41:50Uh and and and Prime Minister himself
41:52has spoken about this sector so many
41:54times. So, there are multiple think
41:56tanks which are very, very proactively
41:58looking forward to to what can be done
42:01better. They are they're having their
42:03policy proposals being put out. So, it
42:05has been quite engaging and this the
42:07same has been your
42:09various industry bodies, right? Uh the
42:12policy policy people, industry
42:14stakeholders, and then government, and
42:16then of course commercial players like
42:18us. So, it's it's been I would say a
42:21very symbiotic ecosystem where people
42:24are hearing, people are ready to hear,
42:26people understand each other's
42:27challenges. Of course, there are certain
42:29issues where people don't agree to, but
42:31that's that's part of the process,
42:33right? Not everything is to be agreed
42:35to, otherwise we don't need so many
42:36people in the room.
42:38But more or less
42:40the ecosystem has a
42:42has
42:43I would say has been supportive.
42:45Government specially with their various
42:47kind of schemes,
42:49policy folks with their think tanks,
42:51with their different ideas. They
42:53understand what is happening in
42:55different parts of the world.
42:56There is something called as battery
42:58Adhar, which is which is in discussion,
43:00which essentially has the full
43:02traceability from end to end. How where
43:05did your battery come from? Where is it
43:07going? So, like your your UPI you can
43:10scan and understand what are what is it
43:12that your battery has come from? Is it
43:14from within India, outside India, which
43:16country? So, there are multiple things
43:18which are being worked on, and
43:19thankfully it has been very supportive.
43:22And talking about that industry and
43:24academia collaboration, so is something
43:27like that exist at law?
43:29Yes, yes. So,
43:30we are partnered with multiple
43:33institutes, and IIT Kanpur is is one of
43:35those.
43:36So, the way to look at it is
43:38there is something called as TRL,
43:40technology readiness level.
43:43We we focus on commercializing the
43:46technology. There are certain
43:47technologies here
43:49two, three, four which is more driven by
43:51educational institutes. This is where we
43:53partner with educational institutes or
43:55academia because they focus on very
43:57fundamental research. Whereas our focus
44:00is on once that there is a certain level
44:02of maturity, how to scale that up and
44:04bring it to commercialization and make
44:06it economically viable. And that's where
44:09academia and industry can collaborate
44:11really well. So, we are working with
44:13multiple institutes including IIT
44:15Kanpur.
44:16Uh Yes, and
44:18again
44:19technology wise these are good
44:20challenges. So, these
44:22these challenges are something which
44:24various scientists or professors really
44:27really uh
44:28>> So, are you getting good output from
44:30these collaborations? Like talking about
44:31that research part. So,
44:34till TRL level three to four institutes
44:37are working on this and then you took up
44:38from that level. So, how do you ensure
44:40that smooth transition? What we call
44:42death valley of
44:43>> [laughter]
44:44>> technology or
44:45like you know commercializing of
44:46technology. So, again
44:48you you have to be very practical,
44:51right? Not every technology is going to
44:53be commercially viable, right? And
44:56and there's no no sure shot path, right?
44:58You work on multiple things and then
45:00there are few things which work out. Of
45:02course, we have created our own
45:04processes how the information transfer,
45:06data transfer,
45:08tech transfer happen when you are
45:10looking to scale up. But even then of
45:12course, there are certain cases where it
45:14doesn't work out the way we would want
45:16it to and that's where uh we put in more
45:19efforts, try to go back to the drawing
45:21board and
45:22typically
45:24academia people are happy to collaborate
45:27because
45:28at the end of the day their goal is to
45:31ensure that whatever they are developing
45:33people are using it. It's not just for
45:35publishing papers, right? They would
45:37want someone to take that up and ensure
45:39that it's being used in the industry.
45:41That's where
45:42I would say the more
45:45recognition for them starts coming in.
45:47So, when when we work with academia, we
45:49have not seen challenges in in these
45:52kind of
45:53transfer or discussions. And how do you
45:56see these
45:58transaction as investment or as
45:59expenses?
46:00>> [laughter]
46:02>> Just a curious question.
46:04Like um the problem with many Indian
46:07companies is they look up to science
46:09taking R&D as expenses, but I think
46:12these are investments to create wealth
46:14or to commercialize things in future.
46:16These are long-term investment, not
46:17long-term cycles. Absolutely. And and
46:20and that's why I mentioned that uh we
46:22have more than 10% uh of our staff
46:25working at R&D. If we would not look at
46:27it as investment and rather look at
46:30expense, uh then the number of folks
46:32would have been curtailed much before,
46:34right? We know our long-term sustenance
46:37uh on various technologies is dependent
46:40on what we are doing in R&D today,
46:42right? Technology is being uh is
46:44changing at such a fast fast pace. So,
46:47if you just if you don't disrupt
46:48yourself, someone else will do it,
46:50right? So, you have R&D folks who are
46:52working on this.
46:53Uh and for us, it's definitely an
46:55investment, right? Uh if uh
46:57if not, uh then then somewhere down the
47:00line, uh it will be very difficult
47:02situation for us. Okay, great. I think
47:04we divert diverted from that government
47:06support thing. So, um again going back
47:09to that, um I think
47:12government focus government is focusing
47:14a lot on this. And what I'm seeing a
47:16trend is like, you know, in terms of
47:17bilateral trade deals,
47:20critical minerals are included in that
47:22at this point of time. So, if you can
47:24talk about like, you know, is L&M is
47:25part of such things and like
47:28collaborating internationally,
47:30because China is monopoly and we can't
47:31do it alone. We need to collaborate with
47:34other countries too. Correct. So, if we
47:35can talk about that and government
47:37support in bilateral trade deals and
47:39everything. So,
47:41these bilateral agreements typically are
47:44G2G kind of engagements, right? Where
47:47there are certain agreements which are
47:48happening with between the various
47:50governments. For example, EFTA European
47:52FTA which was signed off. Or uh, the
47:55agreement with Australia. So, it opens
47:58up immense amount of opportunities for
48:00players like us where we will have
48:02access to market both for raw material
48:05and finished goods. But, as part of
48:07bilateral agreement, it again
48:09it it again creates a framework, right?
48:11It It does not have any private entity
48:14as part of those agreements because
48:16that's not what governments can do,
48:17right? Or government would want to do.
48:19Government ensure that uh, the two
48:21countries who are getting into bilateral
48:23agreements both have equal opportunity
48:25or opportunities to access the markets,
48:27access the material, which essentially
48:30ensure that both are benefiting from it.
48:32Right? If today uh, Lohum wants to sell
48:34material in country A with which uh,
48:37with the country doesn't have agreement
48:39uh, and your bilateral agreement to sell
48:42these kind of technologies or material
48:43versus country B where the agreement is
48:45there, it gives access both to Lohum as
48:47well as for the company who is based out
48:49of that place.
48:50Uh, so it's it's beneficial in that
48:53term. But, of course government creates
48:55the playground and then it's up to
48:57private companies how much they would
48:58want to uh, to to leverage on that and
49:02how how much would they want to build
49:03their business out of those locations as
49:05well. Okay, if I simply ask you this one
49:08question like you know key what
49:10government need to fix for you guys to
49:12scale like in terms of uh, bit reducing
49:15GST on battery scrap or custom support
49:18or
49:19like you know, anything like that. Like
49:20if the government can fix one thing that
49:22can help you guys to scale.
49:25For us, I would say uh,
49:27uh, in the wish list reducing GST to 5%
49:30would be on top of it.
49:32Uh, that custom duties on import of uh,
49:35scrap has already been reduced to zero.
49:38Uh, so that is that has already been um,
49:41I would say listen to via dialogues. So,
49:43that that has already happened.
49:45Uh, but yeah, uh, if if GST moves to 5%,
49:48I think uh, that's all because batteries
49:51uh, are at 5% GST, but the scrap is at
49:5418% GST. Yeah, that's what that's what I
49:57I was talking about.
49:57>> Sorry, not batteries, our vehicles are
49:59at 5% GST, batteries are at 18% GST, and
50:01then scrap is at 18% GST.
50:03>> Yeah, that's that's what I was talking
50:04about. Like, you know, if government can
50:06change that one thing for you, and
50:09other than that, like, you know, any
50:11policy or that is working against you,
50:14like, you know, we need to support our
50:16domestic
50:18like, you know, players. So, any policy,
50:20like, you know,
50:21that again you want to change in terms
50:23of like, you know, competing with
50:25foreign players.
50:27No, I think this is still a developing
50:30ecosystem, right?
50:31>> Okay. To uh
50:33Again,
50:34the way government has been supporting
50:36via
50:37both import duties or by bringing in
50:41various policies where
50:43uh the companies can start being created
50:46within India itself. I think the focus
50:48right now is more on how do you create
50:52those companies within India, which is
50:55where most of the policies are also
50:58right now.
50:59Once you have people or companies who
51:02are doing production within Indian
51:05boundaries, then you can start putting
51:07on guardrails or various kind of
51:09incentive structures where you don't
51:11bring Again, the way to look at it,
51:13every country would want to do value
51:15addition within its own boundaries. But
51:17if you don't have people already
51:19producing those material, you are only
51:21going to increase the cost and make it
51:22make the market a little less
51:24attractive, right?
51:25Energy transition is a reality. We would
51:27want to be at the forefront of it,
51:30but right now you don't have too much
51:32gigafactories operating within India.
51:34So, let's bring in those gigafactories,
51:36let's bring in more manufacturers within
51:39India, and once you have fully developed
51:41Indian ecosystem, then you can start
51:42thinking about all those things. Okay,
51:44great. And talking about Lohum, what is
51:47next? Like as you mentioned, like now we
51:49are moving to advanced minerals
51:51materials. So, if you can talk about
51:53that like, you know, key the transition
51:55and the applications that you're going
51:57to see.
51:59From our perspective, Magnet is a big
52:02project where
52:03significant amount of investment is
52:05going in. So, that's the big thing.
52:08In addition to that, getting ourselves
52:11ready for IPO, I would say that's that's
52:13another milestone. And then Any
52:15milestone before IPO? IPO is [laughter]
52:18just 1 and 1/2 years away.
52:21No, but there are certain targets that
52:23which we have fixed up internally in
52:25terms of top line and bottom line. So,
52:27so we are keeping track of that. So, we
52:29are already at 2400 crores run rate,
52:33which is which is phenomenal. So, those
52:35those are the kind of targets which are
52:37there right now. Of course, uh apart
52:40from new categories, expanding the
52:41current categories is
52:43is is is the whole the focus area for
52:46us.
52:47Okay. And talking about like, you know,
52:50like remove everything, IPO and
52:51everything. Like what does
52:53success looks like for Lohum? In
52:56like in overall, like, you know, running
52:58goals on its full potential and
53:00everything, what does success looks like
53:02for you guys?
53:03So, for us, if you talk about it,
53:06uh
53:08removing India's dependence on
53:11on foreign entities for these critical
53:13materials.
53:15Uh if if we are able to do that, that's
53:17a that's a huge success for us. Okay,
53:20great. And there's a last question for
53:22you. Like is anything that still
53:24surprises you about this space and
53:27something that you didn't expect or you
53:29had any myths about this industry?
53:33No, so of course
53:34you [laughter]
53:36In business,
53:37there are always surprises, right?
53:40They are
53:44I have to think, but yes, there are
53:45always
53:46>> Please, please take your time.
53:47Um
53:51And we won't cut this. This
53:52>> [laughter]
53:52>> This pause will be there in the video.
53:56Uh my name
53:58So, in terms of, uh, surprises, uh,
54:00there are people who come with
54:02irrational expectations, uh, on what
54:05they can achieve in the sector. Uh, so
54:07we we have seen lot of people reaching
54:09out to us saying that we can build this
54:11capacity in 2 months and 3 months, uh,
54:14without understanding the integrity.
54:15They don't even have idea of chemistry,
54:18uh,
54:19because this is so much in the news, uh,
54:21there are surprises from different sort
54:23of people who think that they can build
54:25this within 3 months, which is uh, which
54:28which I don't think is really
54:29practically possible for anyone to do.
54:32Okay. And Chetan, like, any message,
54:34advice for students, young grads, and
54:37the entrepreneurs who are building in
54:39this space, or who want to explore this
54:41space? Like, we are going to need lot of
54:43people in this space in near future. So,
54:46if you can speak to them.
54:48So, I think, uh
54:51all of us hear a lot about AI uh AI and
54:54software is is where there is lot of
54:56fluidity in terms of what is, uh,
54:58happening in the market. Uh, material is
55:01one sector, uh, deep tech sector.
55:03Whatever happens, material will continue
55:05to play a role. So, if someone is really
55:08looking to, uh to see this as a sector,
55:11uh, there are immense opportunities, uh,
55:14be it in semiconductor space, uh, be it
55:17in critical material space, because
55:19material requirement is going to become
55:21more and more advanced. We have not even
55:23spoken about uh data centers being put
55:25in space, right? There are talks of that
55:27already happening. When that starts
55:29happening, the kind of special material
55:31requirement that will happen is is going
55:33to be, uh, very different from what what
55:35we have been producing till now. Someone
55:37who understands various properties of
55:39material and can help it produce at
55:42scale, they have a very bright future.
55:44Like people who started working in
55:46semiconductors long back are now gods of
55:49that industry, right? So, if someone is
55:51looking to create
55:53their career or even if they are not,
55:55they should look at creating this career
55:57because this this sector is going to be
56:00there for long long long. And
56:03No, AI is No, AI is going to take jobs
56:06Yes.
56:07>> [laughter]
56:07>> in this domain at least. Correct. So, no
56:09AI can
56:11They can create
56:12some sort of plan, but they will not be
56:15able to do experiments on their own or
56:17come out with the outputs that that has
56:19to There is tweaking that has to happen
56:21on the factory floor or in in the
56:23research lab. I don't think that's going
56:25to happen via AI. Okay, great. Thank you
56:28so much, Chetan, for your time. Really
56:30had a great time and so much to learn
56:32from you.
56:33>> [laughter]
56:34>> Maza aagaya Many thank you so much for
56:37for hosting me. I think
56:40a lot of old memories came back after
56:42discussing with you young days, yeah.
56:44>> [laughter]
56:45>> Yeah, okay, great.
56:46Thank you so much, man. Okay, thank you.
56:48Thank

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