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How Iman Gadzhi Thinks — Transcript

by Courtne Marland · 12,408 words · 1,763 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Are there any deals that you've said no
0:01to that now haunt you? [laughter]
0:04>> Yeah, there's one.
0:05>> What should a company look for when
0:07saying yes to an investor?
0:09>> Honestly, I just think a lot of
0:10investors hustle companies. They
0:11basically never write a check. Like for
0:12example, for me, like I just won't take
0:14a stake in the business unless I'm
0:15writing a check. We're very similar. In
0:16the same way, I can speak to creators,
0:19but then I can also speak to businesses
0:20and have these very serious negotiations
0:22with multi-billion dollar companies. I
0:24can be in the middle of these two
0:25worlds, and I feel like you have that
0:27same ability in a sense. Is this the
0:29first podcast you've done with one of
0:30the founders of the company that you
0:32invested in?
0:32>> Yes, I believe so.
0:36>> Iman, welcome to the podcast.
0:37>> Thank you very much. Thank you for
0:38having me.
0:38>> So, we're in LRA's offices in New York.
0:41It's been a a long time coming. A lot
0:43has changed since the last time we
0:44spoke.
0:44>> Indeed.
0:45>> Is this the first podcast you've done
0:46with one of the founders of the
0:48companies that you invested in?
0:50>> Yes, I believe so.
0:52>> Okay. I feel very privileged. Um, I
0:54think one of the things that I've always
0:56admired the most about you, I don't even
0:58know if you know you do this, but you
0:59can always remember year by year what
1:02happened in that year.
1:03>> And so from say 2019 through now, like I
1:07would be very curious what you think the
1:08big events are in your sort of journey
1:11getting from 2019 all the way to here
1:13just to catch us up.
1:14>> I think as time goes on, one thing I've
1:16been able to do is not bite off more
1:19than I can chew. Uh and I guess
1:22investing in companies is one good
1:24example of that.
1:26>> Uh I have certain friends of mine that
1:28have a their philosophy is let me write
1:31a 50k check and invest in
1:3410 15 20 businesses a year and you know
1:37I know nothing about them. It sounds
1:39cool and you know that's it done and
1:42dusted. I take a more refined approach
1:45less companies larger checks more
1:48involvement. Um and as I said the reason
1:50I say this is over the years I've
1:52evolved from you know starting in
1:54service based business which is in my
1:56opinion a great business to start uh and
1:58even flourish in your career. It's just
2:00a very difficult business to scale uh
2:03and then from there I went into starting
2:06uh my first digital product business
2:08then starting my first software company.
2:12software was a very difficult game and I
2:14think after a few years I started to
2:15realize um let me leave this to the
2:18professionals and let me invest in the
2:21companies instead. Uh we're very
2:23fortunate at the main business to have
2:24very good cash flows.
2:26>> Um and I [clears throat] think that's
2:27what I mean when I say I'm
2:30>> if I look at my career over the space of
2:32the last 10 years I've been able to
2:34evolve and realize okay now it's time to
2:36move into the next phase and next stage
2:38of my career. Um, and that's really what
2:40we've done the last two years mainly is
2:44take the cash flow from the businesses.
2:45I kind of treat myself as a my own
2:47little fund.
2:48>> Yes.
2:48>> Um, you know, we're [clears throat]
2:51fortunate to have quite a bit of capital
2:53to be working with. Um, and I have, I
2:56guess, sort of like a little sphere of
2:57influence and a little sphere of where I
2:59can be useful to the companies and
3:01that's kind of the area and the domain I
3:02invest in. Would you say that the rocket
3:05fuel that sort of propelled all of that
3:07over the years has been the growth of
3:08your personal brand?
3:11>> I think personal brand gives you uh and
3:14I also want to clarify when you have
3:16when I say personal brand it could be
3:185,000 10,000 of highly targeted uh
3:21followers on X or Twitter. I keep
3:25calling it Twitter.
3:26>> Yes.
3:26>> I think a intentional personal brand is
3:28probably one of the biggest assets that
3:29you can have. Uh so for me having a
3:33personal brand and the scale that I've
3:35had it at um was definitely a big push
3:39forward. Now at a certain point a
3:40personal brand in terms of bringing a
3:42new business you get capped because
3:44there's only so big a personal brand can
3:45get in my opinion. Uh so we've gone very
3:48good at mastering ads. Um we're very
3:51good at advertising between the various
3:52different businesses. one business last
3:53month. We spent $4 million on ads and
3:56turned that over, you know, many many
3:58many multiple times more. Um,
4:02but when I look at personal brand, I
4:03look at the I look at the benefits
4:05outside of direct revenue. So, I look at
4:07obviously the opportunities to invest in
4:09certain businesses. Uh, and actually the
4:12biggest thing has been talent, the the
4:14talent that we're able to attract.
4:15>> Yes.
4:16>> Um, globally, which is my favorite. And
4:19then in certain businesses obviously
4:21like us here at LRA you know we're
4:23looking for people domestically or you
4:26know um yesterday I was a um
4:28checking out we just decked out the
4:31whole fifth floor um so have half of the
4:34fourth floor took the entire fifth floor
4:37um
4:37>> we'll get there one day.
4:38>> Yeah soon very soon. Um and yeah you
4:42know I mean it's the talent that I'm
4:44able to attract even for them. Um, and
4:47whether it's them, whether it's LRA, uh,
4:50yeah, it's it's been a big big
4:51competitive advantage in business.
4:53>> I 100% agree. I want to put on that
4:55thread intentional, because I remember
4:58you saying a long time ago, you used to
4:59play a lot of chess when you were a kid.
5:01And although your growth has been great
5:03on the personal brand side, I think what
5:05is more impressive, and I think you'd
5:06agree, is that you decided to do it and
5:08then actually did it. It wasn't an
5:10accident. And so, how do you decide to
5:13do it and then do it? Talk to me. How do
5:16you do your planning? Do you disappear
5:17for a weekend and go journaling and come
5:19back with the game plan
5:20>> or how do you be intentional? Because
5:22there's a lot of people trying to grow
5:23and get influence, but it often doesn't
5:26work and it's cuz they're just making
5:27noise. There's no intention behind it
5:29>> and you've obviously done it very
5:30successfully and so I'd love to know how
5:32you actually thought through it. Yeah, I
5:34think you need to look past the views
5:35and the likes and the comments and all
5:37this sort of stuff and ask like what are
5:39you trying to accomplish with your
5:40personal brand and you also need to
5:42understand I'm very cognizant of the
5:44fact that you can only appeal to so many
5:47sides of the market. I'll give you an
5:48example like we're beginners and people
5:50earlier on in their careers love us. I
5:52always say like the midmarket which is I
5:55call the semismart people don't like us.
5:57Yeah. and the really smart people love
5:59us because the really smart people can
6:00see how sometimes we dumb things down
6:02and I speak to people at the level that
6:03they're at depending on who I'm talking
6:05to. Um whereas that middle market
6:08usually they like to use all the fancy
6:09big words and over complicate things
6:11that don't need to be over complicated.
6:13And the reason I bring that up is
6:15because I can't appeal to three markets
6:18at the same time. So you need to realize
6:19who are you appealing to and also
6:20between platform to platform. Some
6:22people see me on Tik Tok. Tik Tok I
6:24don't talk business at all. That's
6:25literally just top of funnel just
6:27general wider audience. We have my
6:29business channel where I'm very specific
6:30and I speak to our uh ICP uh at one of
6:33the B2B businesses we have um consulting
6:36businesses we have and They're kind
6:38those two businesses are kind of married
6:40uh for our top clients. So the way I
6:42speak on there is very different to the
6:43way that I speak on Tik Tok which is
6:45very way very different to the way I
6:46speak on my main YouTube channel which
6:48is very different to the vlog channel.
6:49So they all fulfill multiple different
6:51purposes. Now, I will say having such a
6:53broad approach actually doesn't make
6:55sense because uh it's actually counter
6:58counterintuitive, but it for me I'm
7:00optimized for I like the fact that we
7:02can kind of do anything and you can't
7:04put us in a box. Uh but that also means
7:06that you're not you don't have as strong
7:08brand association to one thing because
7:10the person that meets me here compared
7:11to here like they can know me for so
7:13many different things and they also view
7:15me in many different lights. you know,
7:17if people are listening to us here and
7:18they don't realize like, you know, we
7:21have a
7:23pretty moderately successful empire and
7:25we own a lot of infrastructure in in our
7:28industry. Uh whereas the person that
7:30sees me on Tik Tok is like, "Oh, I just
7:31thought he just like I don't know. I've
7:33just seen some funny clips or like some
7:35entertaining clips." So, that's one side
7:37of things. And then also, your personal
7:38brand can evolve as time goes on because
7:41new things the outcome that you're
7:44trying to get out of it might be a
7:45little different. And I'll give you an
7:45example. Even yesterday or sorry, last
7:48week we did a collaboration. Uh there's
7:50a gentleman called Ara on YouTube. He
7:53has 18 million subscribers. I've known
7:54him for a long time. And he was like,
7:56"Hey, are you flying anywhere, you know,
7:59soon? I would love to, you know, jump on
8:00the plane with you." And you know, he
8:02was recording this whole series like
8:03jumping on celebrities jets or whatever.
8:05Um so we went to go visit uh we have an
8:08office in Amsam for a business that we
8:10invest in called Hears. Um so I haven't
8:13had a chance to go to office yet. So I
8:14was like, you know, on the way back to
8:15Dubai, I'll stop off in Amsterdam. So I
8:17was like, jump on the plane. He sent me
8:19the final cut. And a lot of the cut was,
8:24it wasn't bad at all, but a lot of it
8:25was a representation of like when I was
8:27a little younger and maybe a little less
8:29refined. And I just told him, you know,
8:31for me personally, I don't mind, but at
8:33this stage, I represent what I put out
8:36there represents LRA. What I put out
8:37there represents in that case, you know,
8:39we're going to hear her here. Obviously,
8:40it represents here. represents any other
8:43businesses I make public that I have a
8:44stake in um and ownership in. So that's
8:48what I mean about intentionality because
8:50maybe if they put in flashier clips of
8:53me in that moment maybe that would have
8:54appealed more to his audience cuz it is
8:56a sort of a wider audience technically
8:58that would have been better cuz they
9:00would have been like oh this guy's so
9:01this has this this this etc. But that
9:04doesn't that's not intentional to what I
9:06want
9:08my brand to be and the main things um
9:11that we're talking about today and even
9:12uh earlier this year uh we made a
9:14decision we're like we know how to crank
9:16the views better than anyone else. We've
9:19done it on all these different platforms
9:21but we decided okay we kept growing our
9:23market and we actually want to slim down
9:25now. So we decided to scale it back
9:28slightly and we knew on purpose we'd get
9:29less views but and we get less broad
9:32reach but that
9:34benefited the business businesses a bit
9:37better. While you were saying that, all
9:38I was thinking is there's so many
9:39parallels to that and product, right?
9:41Really personal brand being your product
9:43because what I was really trying to ask
9:45is what in your mind is Iman's design
9:48language.
9:49>> So at Lero, we spend a lot of energy,
9:51resources, and time on design because
9:53our product we hope is going to be used
9:54by millions of people. Design the way it
9:56feels, way it looks, it matters more
9:58than anything. But you have to be very
10:00intentional. You know, round buttons is
10:02friendly and playful. If you make it
10:03square, it goes super corporate. And so
10:06you have to think a lot about the way
10:07things look. And with personal brand, I
10:09hear people speak about like the content
10:11pillars.
10:12>> What is Iman's design language?
10:15>> It's not actually particularly smart,
10:17but the way that we do it, and I don't
10:19recommend this for people, uh the way
10:21that I do it is it's very different
10:22platform to platform. So, one of the
10:24things that is interesting about us is
10:27we in one moment we're visiting our new
10:30fifth floor offices in Walp and then the
10:32night before we're like meeting up with
10:34creators with millions and millions of
10:36followers and we know how to speak both
10:37languages you know like we know how to
10:40tomorrow we're going in and there's a
10:41you know hourlong meeting that I want to
10:43have about a particular part of strategy
10:46for 2026 and that's like a very serious
10:48like corporate level meeting that we're
10:50having but then I'm also then later on
10:53the day having like a creator coming in
10:54and kind of like
10:55>> being a part of the culture if that
10:57makes sense.
10:57>> So the reason I say that is um I
11:00wouldn't say that I have a particular
11:02>> content pillar or this or that like we
11:04have one rule which I guess is just
11:06don't be lame like
11:07>> like that's kind of our big thing is
11:09like whatever we do I just don't want to
11:10do it in a lame way and I don't want to
11:11do it in like a cookie cutter way and
11:13most importantly I just want to do in a
11:14way that's like truthful and honest to
11:16us. Uh cuz I think it comes across. I
11:18think one of the big feedback that we've
11:20gotten from a lot of people is like it
11:22doesn't look like you guys are trying.
11:24And I think that's actually I don't even
11:26know if you even noticed like even
11:27literally right before this um you know
11:30uh Alex was like, "Oh, let's record like
11:32what are we doing?" I was like, "Bro,
11:33when did we ever like record what we're
11:35doing?" Like I was like, "Bro, we just
11:36roll the camera."
11:37>> Yeah. We had no preparation. We just sat
11:39down. [laughter]
11:39>> So I was like, "Oh, should we say what
11:41we're doing?" I was like, "Wait, we
11:42actually never do that."
11:44>> Like and I kind of prefer that that way.
11:45but rather you feel like you're looking
11:48into our life rather than like we're
11:50doing things for the camera or XYZ. And
11:53I think that sincerity comes across or
11:56at least I hope it does.
11:57>> Yeah. And then I want to talk more on
11:59the VC fund thing you mentioned. So I
12:02know that this has become something that
12:04you've amplified lately is build a cash
12:06flow business, generate revenue, and
12:07then become your own VC fund.
12:10>> At what stage do you think that makes
12:12sense to do? because a lot of people in
12:15info do really well and a lot of them
12:17want to get into SAS and I think a lot
12:19of them are trying to build it
12:20themselves rather than investing and
12:23when we were in Dubai one of the things
12:24you said to me is that comes with a
12:27trade-off in lifestyle
12:28>> and a lot of people get stuck in the
12:30lifestyle and I'd love to know your
12:32thoughts on who is that for who is it
12:34not for at what point should you be
12:36investing and sort of why that has
12:39become what you now think is correct me
12:41if I'm wrong the best playbook is cash
12:43flow and then become your own fund.
12:45>> I think for us cash flow and become your
12:47own fund is is has been a smart path to
12:50go down. But the
12:54I said I I live in this very funny place
12:56where we're almost like player coach
12:58owner. So like we just broke the records
13:01again on W for you know the most amount
13:04of volume processed in 1 hour, 24 hours,
13:067 days and 30 days.
13:07>> Congrats.
13:08>> Uh thank you. Uh so that's the second
13:10time this year we've processed almost $2
13:12billion uh on So you know there's
13:15some heavy hitters on there. So we're in
13:17this industry playing but then we're
13:19also technically coaches cuz we have a
13:21B2B company. Uh we bought a old Lexi
13:24business called Consultant.com. Um and
13:27yeah, we just advise people in the
13:28space. Uh usually it's some of our top
13:30clients uh that are processing the most
13:32on uh work with that business and
13:34then we're also owners in the
13:36infrastructure layer because you know
13:38the very serious people in our industry
13:41are processing all their payments on w
13:43uh you know we do a myriad of things but
13:44that is the thing where like no one even
13:46comes close to us in that domain um so
13:50the reason I say that is like I slant is
13:54a very funny situation uh where we have
13:58a lot of customers and we have a lot of
13:59pull in this industry and you know one
14:02of the big things that we've been doing
14:03is we have so many customers coming into
14:06our sort of broad market uh product
14:09called uh monetize. So, you know, we
14:13have about 20-ish,000 customers a year.
14:16Um and what we've started doing is we
14:18start going to businesses and striking
14:20up licensing deals, software businesses.
14:22So, we have licensing deals now. We get
14:23wholesale rates because we're bulk
14:25buying year upfront, but we're also
14:29obviously there's certain things I can't
14:30see on camera, but I'll
14:33there's businesses that we're in
14:34negotiations with right now to take a
14:36stake in them. And we're writing a
14:38multi-million dollar a year licensing
14:41check to them. So that adds obviously
14:43quite a bit to their enterprise value.
14:46And based on that prerequisite and based
14:48on that condition, we get very favorable
14:50investment terms. So, it's this we're in
14:53this very interesting position where we
14:54actually have all the customers. So,
14:56with that specific business, it's 5
14:58million 5 million a year that I'm uh uh
15:01spending to have all of our customers,
15:04all 20,000 customers a year that come in
15:06um a one-year subscription to that
15:09specific plan. It's interesting because
15:11we have the cash flow coming in here,
15:13but then we also have
15:16the enterprise value and they're very
15:17happy because it's very rare that you
15:19have a almost distribution partner
15:21that's going to bring you 20,000
15:23customers prepaid upfront for a year and
15:26past that year they keep 100% of year 2
15:283 4 5 any upsells, downells, cross
15:30sales, they keep 100% of. So it's a we
15:34found this very like interesting lane,
15:37right? Because they're going to spend
15:38all that money I said I won't get into
15:40specifics of it, but that extra margin,
15:43you know, the wholesale rate that we uh
15:45negotiated, they're spending that money
15:46on Meta anyways, and we're a clean wire
15:49where where their payment processing
15:50fees, their refunds, their disputes, and
15:52their advertising costs. And we're
15:54bringing on porting in very educated
15:58users, right? And high intent users
16:00because these aren't like free trial
16:01users. They've paid a lot of money. They
16:03get it for a year up front. It's part of
16:04a larger training and a larger
16:06ecosystem. So, it's just like a very
16:09unique thing that I haven't really seen
16:11any other people do.
16:12>> No, I I mean I'll give it to you because
16:14I remember you having that conversation
16:15with me and at first I was like this is
16:16a completely new model so I have
16:18literally nothing to benchmark it to.
16:20>> But it makes sense because if you're
16:21choosing correct products, your
16:23customers are getting enormous amount of
16:24value bundled together at a price point
16:26they wouldn't otherwise get. The
16:27businesses are getting a volume of
16:29feedback that would be so expensive to
16:31acquire and also the customers wouldn't
16:33be incentivized to care. And obviously
16:35also you're getting the increase in your
16:37your enterprise value which is good for
16:38you if you're an investor but also good
16:40for the business.
16:41>> Um and so it's a really good win all
16:43around.
16:45>> Um as long as you choose the right
16:46products.
16:47>> Correct.
16:47>> And I guess that would be another
16:49question for me is when you are looking
16:51at making investments cuz I imagine
16:52there's a lot of deal flow. There's a
16:54lot of you know potential that comes
16:55across your table. What do you look for?
16:57Is it the founder you're evaluating or
17:00is it the business?
17:03I'll be honest, in LRA's specific case,
17:05it was definitely you, the founder. Um,
17:07all bets were on you. Tell me more,
17:09which [laughter] which I think is
17:11>> panned out quite nicely so far.
17:13>> Uh, I think you're in a very funny
17:15enough I I see a lot of
17:18>> we're very similar. And what I mean by
17:20that is I feel like you in the same way
17:22I can speak to creators and YouTubers
17:27and like like personalities, right? But
17:29then I can also speak to businesses and
17:31have these very serious negotiations
17:32with multi-billion dollar companies when
17:34it comes to for example in this case
17:35your licensing deal and going all right
17:37you know at the end of it of course
17:38they're going okay what's the catch
17:39you're bringing us all these customers
17:40and I'm like well of course I expect
17:42terms that other people because I'm far
17:45it goes beyond a strategic I'm the
17:48amount of value I'm actually bringing to
17:49business is just there's very few people
17:50that can do that on day one guaranteed
17:53um so I can be in the middle of these
17:55two worlds and I feel like you have that
17:57same ability in the sense you can be in
17:59the world of speaking to devs but then
18:01also um raising like you're very good at
18:04doing both whereas
18:07without getting into specifics there's
18:08certain businesses where I can tell the
18:11person who is in these businesses I'm
18:13invested in I wouldn't really trust that
18:15individual to raise cuz they just don't
18:18really know how to they don't have that
18:21as same inspiring nature but that's also
18:23why they're great product people I guess
18:24basically what I'm trying to say is
18:25you're a great product person but people
18:28person as well and that's a very hard
18:29combination to find. A lot of times
18:31people who are so fixated and obsessed
18:33about product they have a very difficult
18:36time speaking to institutions and
18:38raising and playing that other side. Um
18:42so I think that's what's you know
18:43something that's very very unique about
18:45you is you can put you in any room and
18:47you're you know how to move and operate.
18:49>> No, I I appreciate that. I think you
18:50pointed out that that is like my edge
18:52and I think I've been doing it by
18:54accident but I think when you said it
18:55very succinctly um that really like
18:57solidified it for me so I appreciate
18:59that.
19:00>> Um for those who don't know when you
19:01invested become actually called Seeking
19:03Sigma.
19:03>> So we've changed a lot. We've changed
19:05the logo. We've had a lot of iterations
19:07between Yeah, there's been a lot.
19:09>> I'd love to know what makes you the most
19:12excited about LERA now. Like I know it's
19:14changed many times. I think we've tried
19:16to keep the core thesis the same and you
19:18know I think we've also just gotten
19:19bolder right we've started taking on
19:21bigger and bigger and bigger dragons
19:23>> um what now makes you the most excited
19:25about it
19:26>> as you said it's a much bigger vision
19:28from where I if in in full transparency
19:31when it was seeking sigma I invested cuz
19:33it's you um the product in of itself I
19:36didn't it was an inspiring product but
19:39it wasn't a
19:42let's change the world kind of product
19:43and I feel like now we're going the
19:45territory where it's like, okay, we're
19:46not going to be it's not going to be
19:4920,000 to 30,000 enterprise businesses
19:52that are like, okay, this is a great
19:53product. This helps this improves our
19:55efficiency by 43% and because of that,
20:00it's a XYZ however much size business.
20:03Now, it's like a okay, we want to
20:07you said earlier you want millions of
20:08people using LRA. I actually think the
20:10number is hundreds of millions that
20:11should be using LRA. Um,
20:14and that's a much bigger thing and
20:15that's a much bigger market which I'm a
20:18fan of personally.
20:19>> Yeah,
20:19>> that's a much bigger market. It's a much
20:21bigger mission. It's far more exciting.
20:22And
20:25the God's honest truth is there are
20:28certain softwares and certain tools that
20:29we even use ourselves or historically
20:32have used uh where I feel like they
20:34become the standard but I don't know if
20:37they're developing at the rate where
20:38they should remain the standard. And
20:40what I mean by that is Zoom is one of
20:42them. Like historically we've used Zoom
20:46um up until obviously very recently.
20:49>> Do I think that they're
20:51do I use the product and think this is
20:53incredible out of this world? Not
20:55really. But it it's just it's just good
20:57enough to exist if that makes sense. And
20:59>> Slack like we use Slack. Do I think
21:02Slack is revolutionary and do every time
21:04they use a product they go wow this is
21:05incredible?
21:07Not really but it's just kind of become
21:08the standard. So I feel like that is one
21:11segment of the market where the market
21:13just kind of accepted the standard and I
21:15don't think there's been enough to move
21:18things forward. Uh and especially with
21:21how fast AI is moving and and how much
21:24it's increasing efficiency I've seen
21:26just in that specific domain there
21:27hasn't it hasn't been reflected and
21:30there hasn't been enough progression
21:31enough advancement. So uh Zoom is
21:34probably you know has been one of our
21:37most used tools uh in terms of like
21:39usage time. I would actually say it's
21:41yeah probably the most used tool because
21:42of uh between the businesses how many
21:45meetings are running like I could go in
21:47any of the businesses right now there's
21:48at least seven meetings running on zoom
21:50between various different departments
21:52the product in it in of itself not to
21:54bash zoom whether it's zoom or google
21:56meets I'm just saying that specific um
22:00for that specific use case I just don't
22:02think there's enough uh being done to
22:04move things forward
22:05>> I agree and I think one of the things
22:07that has surprised me is this sheer
22:09volume of time that humans spend in
22:10these platforms. I think you know you
22:12can build a lot of cool softwares very
22:14few literally people spend a large
22:16proportion of their week in that little
22:17window and that's why design is so
22:19important. Um but I actually wanted to
22:21come back to another point. So one of
22:23the things we've worked extremely hard
22:24on with LRA is to actually reduce our
22:26pricing.
22:28>> So originally we were quite expensive
22:30and I remember you know we had our
22:32discussion about you coming on board and
22:35um I must also give it to you. I think
22:36you're one of the best like negotiators.
22:38cuz you're extremely aggressive on your
22:39terms. Um, but you pointed out the price
22:42point
22:42>> and that was because of this like mass
22:44market thing and we over time have come
22:47to agree on that and we're working
22:48harder to suppress that.
22:50>> Um, but at the time you said something
22:52and it stuck with me. You said you only
22:53invest in businesses where you have an
22:55advantage.
22:56>> Um, and as an investor I'd like to hear
22:58again you told me then but for the
23:00audience what do you think your
23:01advantage is? Let's say for example in
23:04the context of LRA now as of the you
23:07know recent advancements and the new
23:08change in pricing um however
23:13forward I guess you could say I was and
23:16however forward I was with the value I
23:18bring to the table I think if we had the
23:20current pricing back then I would have
23:21been honestly five times even more
23:23forward
23:24>> because the the fact of the matter is
23:27>> um by 2026 if everything you know keeps
23:30going on the track they will go uh
23:3320,000 of my customers will have access
23:34to LRA, right? And because they're going
23:37to have to pay for other solutions
23:38regardless and these other solutions, I
23:40said to me, the mark currently as it
23:42stands right now in this market are very
23:44mediocre and also uh in that business
23:47where basically we bundle a bunch of my
23:49softwares that either I own many tools
23:51we create or we do licensing deals. Uh
23:55these people are on online communication
23:57and online meetings constantly. Uh so
24:01that's a big thing that we bring to the
24:02table. And then also on the flip side of
24:04things, we're in a very fortunate
24:05position where our customers are very
24:06patient with us. So for example, you
24:09know, we can deploy when the time comes,
24:12we can deploy LRA to a small subsection
24:14of our customer base and then wider and
24:16wider wider and we're in a very
24:18fortunate position where if something
24:21goes wrong, no one's upset. they're very
24:24patient with us and and it's very rare
24:25to you know we get about this year we'll
24:28get about 20,000 new customers but we
24:30have had almost 100,000 customers. Um,
24:34so to have that much feedback and what's
24:38interesting is that because we're owners
24:40and players in a lot of these
24:42industries. So in the same way like LRA
24:44like you know owners but then also like
24:47end users like hardcore end users. A lot
24:50of times we're guinea pigs for a lot of
24:52the businesses that we invest in. So
24:55before it even gets to our customers uh
24:57we're guinea pigs as of right now for
25:00LER, right? And if something happens or
25:03breaks with us, it's not that big of an
25:04issue. If it happens for one of our
25:06enterprise uh users, it can cause big
25:08issues. So, it's very rare that you have
25:10a
25:12an investor can come in and they're like
25:15your research and development as in
25:16like, hey, break things and we're we're
25:19cool with it. Like we're we're fine.
25:21Test things out up, you know, put out a
25:23new launch and and not only that, like
25:25we're such heavy users of it. Like it's
25:27not like, oh, you know, maybe five
25:28people in team use it. we're your R&D,
25:30but if you want it to be, we can turn on
25:33a tap and we could have 100,000 people
25:34be your R&D. And it's that these people
25:36aren't really pissed off because we have
25:37so much goodwill with our customers
25:39where if something breaks, like they're
25:41not really they're maybe a little
25:42annoyed, but it's not going to be like
25:44absolutely detrimental to the business.
25:46So, not only do you have R&D, you also
25:50have distribution on two fronts. you
25:52have distribution in the sense of like
25:53cuz there's some businesses that I go to
25:55like uh you know that one example there
25:58were about you know hopefully things
26:00should go across the line soon with that
26:01$5 million your licensing deal where
26:03like I bring distribution in the sense I
26:04have a massive audience but like some
26:08businesses weight that higher than other
26:09businesses for some businesses are like
26:11yeah that's cool but there's nothing
26:12tangible um so I bring distribution in
26:14two cents for example with LRA where we
26:16can onboard all these customers and do a
26:18wholesale rate uh and do a licensing
26:20deal but then also So, you know, we have
26:22a massive audience and we can bring
26:24awareness. You know, the other day we
26:25had Product Hunt and we're able to put
26:27that out to, you know, hundreds of
26:28thousands of people, reach hundreds of
26:29thousands of people on the day just from
26:31one story. You know, we're able to reach
26:33>> I mean, when I put out hiring posts for
26:35some of the other businesses we've had,
26:37just from my Instagram story, we've had
26:39over 150,000
26:40>> people apply to work at one of the
26:43businesses, which is insane. Yes.
26:45>> Right. Um, [clears throat]
26:47>> so that is my edge. Now, there's certain
26:49businesses that I go to
26:53I speak to I I just don't really like
26:55there's not much I can do for them. Um,
26:58if you gave me a I don't know, let's say
27:00like a massive restaurant chain, maybe
27:02they might value the my audience, but I
27:06just don't think that's going to be a
27:07big enough competitive advantage. And
27:08also, like I wouldn't even want to
27:10command certain terms with them or
27:13request certain terms cuz I just
27:14wouldn't feel like I bring enough to the
27:15table. when you're investing a company,
27:18I mean, we have a long-term
27:19relationship. Um, you want to feel good
27:22about it and it's a long-term
27:24partnership and you're working together
27:25for a very long time and, uh, everyone
27:28wants to feel like they walk away with,
27:29uh, happy with the way things panned
27:32out, basically.
27:33>> I'll also give you that like commitment
27:34cuz I've dealt with a lot of LPs now and
27:36a lot of investors and one of the things
27:38I've noticed about you is you're not
27:39afraid to not invest because you just
27:41don't think you can actually help, like
27:43you can't actually drive value. And when
27:45we were speaking, the thing that excited
27:46me most was yes, you guys are power
27:49users and you have a really strong team
27:50which can give feedback itself. The
27:52customers as well, but the fact that we
27:54have that virality loop built into the
27:56product. And so those 20,000 customers
27:58is actually 100,000
28:00>> if we do our job right. And that's the
28:02million customers. And that's again one
28:03of the big value unlocks with our
28:05product.
28:05>> But for that to be right, we need to
28:07master that design.
28:08>> Um,
28:09>> I'd love to flip the question around
28:10now. M
28:11>> what should a company look for when
28:13saying yes to an investor? Like when I
28:15was evaluating you, what do you think I
28:18should have been thinking?
28:19>> Honestly, I just think a lot of
28:20investors hustle companies and
28:22especially like earlier stage companies.
28:24Uh and what I mean by that is like
28:26there's a company right now that we're
28:28looking at taking a stake in. And
28:32without getting into specifics, like
28:33there's
28:38I see this a lot right now. I I see a
28:39lot of basically
28:42family offices or funds or and I they
28:45basically never write a check like for
28:47example for me like I have never taken a
28:49stake in the business a business. I just
28:51won't take a stake in the business
28:52unless I'm writing a check. Now it could
28:53be a check at favorable terms because
28:55also I think it needs to be fair and you
28:57know the value I bring to the table if I
28:58do bring value to the table needs to be
29:00represented correctly. But like I see
29:03this I see it a lot with
29:07sometimes as well like well-known people
29:09I think in my opinion maybe taking a
29:11little kind of taking advantage of newer
29:14businesses and saying I bring X exposure
29:17and I bring both like for me if going
29:20back to that restaurant example or for
29:21me going back to there there's
29:22businesses like there was a napkin
29:23advertising business and they want me to
29:25get involved and I'm just like to be
29:26honest I just I know I have some
29:28exposure and I have like literally tens
29:30of millions of followers between
29:31platforms But like I just don't know if
29:33that's like valuable enough. Like and I
29:35wouldn't even want to like pretend if
29:36that's like I don't know how that
29:38converts, you know, and and I don't know
29:40what's a business that we could
29:43like there's a online bank that want me
29:45to uh to invest in them. I just didn't
29:48know how much I could bring to the table
29:51in that case. And the reason I bring up
29:54this whole thing is I think just be very
29:55careful because there's some investors
29:57who are very good at pitching
29:58themselves.
29:59>> Yes. But it's like pitch, okay, cool.
30:02Deals signed, done, XYZ, this, that. And
30:04it's like crickets after that. And I
30:06would just be very careful or at least
30:08have some sort of um have some sort of
30:11benchmarks where things unlock or have
30:14some like just protect yourself as a
30:16business. And I know especially at the
30:17beginning, it can it's easy to get like
30:20wowed by certain people. I said, I've
30:23seen it unfortunate a lot in my opinion
30:24where
30:26some people of influence take advantage
30:28of that. And so even with this business,
30:30they're like, "Yeah, this person uh they
30:32want 30%."
30:34>> And there's no real deliverables. I'm
30:36like, "But but what are they actually
30:37like?" They're not even putting any
30:39money in. And you know, like I said, I
30:41know many many well-known individuals
30:42that don't write checks.
30:44>> Never. They're just like, "Oh, I'm such
30:46and such, so give me 10% of your
30:48business or 25% of your business and
30:49I'll help you grow." It's like, what
30:51does that mean? Like help you what what
30:54does that actually tangibly mean? Like
30:56what are you getting? put some skin in
30:57the game as well.
30:58>> Yeah, exactly. And and to me, it's just
31:01I get it. It's early stage and I'm all
31:02for I I I think you should give up
31:05I think you should give up equity in
31:07your company because it's much better to
31:08have a smaller piece of much larger pie.
31:11But always ask yourself
31:14if this person does what they say
31:15they're going to do at
31:18a $10 million valuation, $100 million
31:20valuation, billion dollar valuation.
31:21Because right now 8% or 12% or 15% or oh
31:25you know yeah I'll give them 20% cuz
31:27they you know they're have a lot of
31:29YouTube subscribers and they say they
31:30could help my grow my business like that
31:32might seem like oh whatever it's just
31:3320%. But then let's say things do go
31:36incredibly well
31:37>> you know and it's at a billion dollar
31:38valuation is like one call a month like
31:41would you have felt good about that? Now
31:42maybe the answer is yes. If the answer
31:43is yes like great go for it. But I I
31:46just see a lot of people unfortunately
31:49sometimes get a little too
31:52romantic, let's say, about their
31:54investors and they start to build
31:56fantasies in their mind of what could
31:58happen. But I think you always just need
32:00to come in come into in a very skeptical
32:03with with a skeptical lens and and if it
32:06still makes sense at the end of that,
32:07then that's great. And I agree with you
32:09by looking at sort of their history and
32:11the companies they've been with in the
32:12past and just asking like have they
32:13actually delivered on such and such or
32:15do they break promises
32:16>> reference just ask for some simple
32:18references. Yeah.
32:19>> And a lot of people I think we all spoke
32:20about this they don't make public the
32:21companies that they invest in
32:22>> and so it's really hard to do any of
32:24that. That's generally how you know that
32:25there's there's usually a problem there.
32:28>> Um are there any deals that you've said
32:29no to that now haunt you? [laughter]
32:34>> Um yeah there's one. Um, yeah, it's
32:38funny actually in the car. Um, it's
32:42it came to mind. That's why I was like I
32:43thought of it so quick. Um, because uh I
32:46gave this product to associate of mine
32:50and he was like, "Oh, my wife loves it."
32:51She says it's it's great. Uh uh there's
32:53a company called Cadence um you know
32:56friend of mine George Hedon that owns
32:58Represent,
33:01you know, other incredible entrepreneur
33:03Ross. Uh they came to me about two years
33:06ago. I remember I was in LA uh and they
33:09were like hey we have this product we
33:12want you to come in as a third partner
33:14uh and you know would would have owned a
33:18third of the company you know we want
33:19you to come in as a third partner do
33:20what you do XYZ this that and I was like
33:22guys I would like absolutely love to but
33:24I literally if you told me 6 weeks
33:27before I would have been down but I
33:28literally just produced it was either
33:30half a million or a million cans of
33:32pretty much the exact same product with
33:3380 milligs of caffeine. It was like a
33:36electrolytes, sparkling water with
33:38electrolytes in a can.
33:39>> Right. This was big day.
33:40>> Yes. Correct. Big day. Uh and
33:44>> yeah, long story short, the businesses
33:46were and even, you know, the first 6
33:48months. Yeah. Even up until like the
33:50first six months, we were at the same
33:51revenue mark. First nine months even.
33:54And you know, Ross is an absolute
33:56superstar. He's a genius. Very, very
33:57good on the distribution side of things.
33:59Yes.
33:59>> Um and the business is worth about 100
34:01mil now. Um, so you know that that
34:05definitely uh that's one that I can
34:07think of in terms of
34:09uh I guess not so much investing. There
34:13was when I was 18 uh do you know you
34:16know Aura Ring?
34:17>> I do. Yeah. I usually have one on
34:19actually.
34:19>> Oh amazing. Uh they were a client of
34:22mine at my agency at my advertising
34:24agency.
34:24>> Yeah. Uh, and I was 18 years old and uh,
34:30I had this fixation with having a client
34:32that I charge $5,000 a month. Sorry, uh,
34:35five figures a month, too. So, I
34:36remember I char I priced at £7,800
34:39because with the conversions back then,
34:40that equal just a tip over $10,000. Yes,
34:42it was my five figure a month retainer.
34:44>> Big win.
34:46>> Well, yes. Yes and no. So back then the
34:48CEO was a gentleman called Harpre and he
34:51was like listen we can either off you
34:52offer you equivalent stock like equity
34:56uh or you know we'll pay your fee. Uh I
34:59was 18 and dumb and young at the time
35:02and I didn't really know what that could
35:03mean.
35:04>> Yeah.
35:04>> Um and yeah long story short I think we
35:07only worked together for 9 months. Uh so
35:10I whatever the agency like I made 90K I
35:13think if stalk equivalent of now you
35:16know because obviously they've grown a
35:17lot in seven years I think that probably
35:19would have been a million a month payday
35:21>> for 9 month it was it would have been
35:22equivalent to about $9 million.
35:24>> I know they just crossed like 11 billion
35:25or something. So it would it would have
35:27been a big number.
35:28>> Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah. So
35:30yeah I guess those are two examples and
35:32and to me these are these are important
35:34learning lessons. So like that
35:35>> when I was 18 that taught me the value
35:38of you know going back to a lot
35:39unfortunately a lot of people in my
35:40industry and
35:41>> I feel like a almost like an uncle
35:43sometimes to a lot of people in my
35:44industry cuz I'm always telling them
35:45like put away money safely invest like
35:49have like get to whatever your number is
35:51with just safe investments after that
35:53like let's think a little bigger let's
35:54go a little bigger like there's I'm sure
35:56there's some infrastructure plays that
35:59you can have in your market I'm sure
36:01there's some ownership there's some tool
36:03you and all your customers used that
36:04like you can have a stake of you can
36:05have ownership like just let's think a
36:07little bigger than this uh and I always
36:09kind of try to drill that into uh people
36:12in the info industry and the digital
36:13product industry because the info
36:15industry and digital product industry is
36:16actually a very interesting market
36:18because it's the only business I've ever
36:20found where you make the most money in
36:23the first 5 years like the first 5 years
36:24are the easiest and in the first 5 years
36:26the info digital product business is one
36:28of the easiest businesses in the world
36:29and after 5 years I'm not joking it's
36:31the most difficult business in the world
36:32and it's the complete opposite Now we
36:35have you know that business has been
36:36around for
36:38eight or nine years now and it's been
36:40every single year we've grown year on
36:41year in profit. There's not a single
36:44other business in the world info
36:45business digital product business that's
36:46that's done that. Uh and I can tell you
36:48it's a super difficult business to be
36:50in. And so that's why I tell a lot of
36:52these guys I'm like let's guys and girls
36:54um like let's think a little bigger like
36:56how are you going to own peace you know
36:59equity ownership have stakes in
37:01businesses um and a lot of that was for
37:04example learning lessons from Aura I was
37:06like oh idiot like this can actually
37:09amount to something very big in the
37:10future so think a little bigger the
37:12cadence example actually taught me a
37:13very important uh lesson and that's
37:15probably you know one of the reasons it
37:16was actually about two years ago that I
37:18started taking investing very seriously
37:19because I realized At this stage in my
37:21career, I am I have no interest in
37:24building a billion-dollar company from
37:26the ground up myself. I would much
37:28rather my whole game and what I like to
37:30do is I like to have own five to 30% of
37:33businesses. And if you change CRM, I
37:35don't want to know about it. You don't
37:36need to tell me. Okay? I don't need to I
37:38don't want to micromanage know every
37:39part of the business. Now, when we need
37:41to come in and we need to make very
37:42strategic decisions and we need to make
37:44uh uh product decisions or there's
37:46something that you want to before you
37:47want to roll it out to the public, you
37:49want my team cuz without getting into
37:52specifics, there's been certain
37:53businesses that we have uh you know uh
37:56we have ownership in and we have like if
38:00the product if the public ever saw that
38:03product,
38:04it would have been game over for us
38:06because it it was that abysmal. Like
38:07there was actually a situation in August
38:09as I won't get into which company or the
38:11specifics like it was it was bad. Now
38:14the product now at this stage or that
38:16specific feature is like I don't even
38:18think we we couldn't live without it.
38:19Like it was it's been such a massive
38:20game changer but it was a month of pain
38:22and it was also a very important
38:25function of of of someone's business. So
38:28it was
38:31it was uh it was something that's very
38:33important is that that's where I think
38:36we're we've become very wise now because
38:38of some of these previous uh failures uh
38:40where we understand where are we most
38:42valuable and where do we like to sit uh
38:44and said that Ken's example is sometimes
38:47sometimes it's just very important like
38:49Ross is a superstar in the same way I
38:51view you as a superstar and sometimes
38:52it's just better to go okay I just want
38:54a smaller piece of this you're the
38:57superstar I know that come hell or high
39:00water you will figure it out and I am
39:01betting 100% on you to be successful. Uh
39:04and going back to your earlier questions
39:06sometimes I do look at product and
39:07sometimes sometimes I wait more towards
39:09product and sometimes I wait more
39:11towards the founder. I you always have
39:13to take the founder into account and
39:14that's always a big portion of it but
39:16I'll be honest in you know LAR back then
39:19seeking Sigma case it was it was 100%
39:21weighted cuz it was pre-product.
39:22>> Yeah. We had nothing. We added a logo.
39:24>> Yeah. [laughter]
39:25100% weighted to you uh and zero to the
39:27product and then sometimes it's it's
39:29more product less founder and you know
39:32it just depends on the size of the
39:33company.
39:34>> It's interesting cuz I spend a lot of my
39:35time having the same conversation but
39:37with employees because it's always a
39:39trade-off between cash and between
39:40equity and I always look at it and I'm
39:43like you're going to get really good
39:45cash compensation just cuz that's what
39:47we do. we'll benchmark it to you know so
39:49it's going to be great but really the
39:51value is in the equity and I guess the
39:54the question there is like do you
39:55believe that it's going to be worth X
39:57because that's really the overriding
39:59factor and so when you speak to some of
40:01your portfolio companies and you sort of
40:03talk them through that I love to know
40:04sort of if I was hiring someone and
40:06having that conversation how would you
40:09sort of get them across the line of
40:10seeing that value is it the belief in
40:13the founder
40:14>> the business because obviously like if
40:16you know traction's they're, you know,
40:17they're breaking records after records.
40:19That's a lot easier than in the early
40:21days when there's a there's a logo and a
40:23product and maybe a Loom video. That's
40:25all there really is, but you still need
40:26incredible people. How would you sort of
40:28approach that or like what advice would
40:30you give to to founders?
40:32>> Yeah, as you said, it just depends on
40:34the stage that you're at because if you
40:36have the product and the growth of the
40:38business is the proof point, right? So,
40:40let's say
40:42uh like a a W because we referenced them
40:45already. Like we've grown since our last
40:48round in June 2024, we've grown what was
40:53600% and our last round was five five
40:56600%. And our last round was at a $800
40:59million valuation. In terms of a a
41:02company of that size, growing 5 to 10%
41:05month on month is like [snorts] it's
41:07insane. Like it's crazy. Um,
41:11and you can always point to that and go,
41:12okay, whether you believe in the
41:14founders or not, you know, that's a
41:16different story. But like that in of
41:17itself is such a crazy proof point. And
41:19that's like you can't dispute that. And
41:22there's certain businesses where
41:24even me, there's certain business I look
41:26at and I'm like, I don't think the
41:28business is that great or maybe I don't
41:30even like the founder that much or I
41:31don't believe that much in the founder.
41:33But the growth of the business, you just
41:34can't dispute it. So when you're hiring
41:36talent, you're trying to bring talent on
41:37point, it's just it doesn't get much
41:39easier than that. Uh unfortunately, if
41:41you don't have that and you don't have
41:43that track record, it to me it really
41:45just comes down to founder and that's
41:46it. And you know, even though
41:50in some of my businesses, it's
41:51different. I think my team I am
41:53[clears throat] not uh numb to the fact
41:54at all that a lot of my uh people in my
41:57businesses can go get higher paying jobs
41:59elsewhere like that tomorrow. But they
42:01believe in me and they believe in me as
42:03the captain of the ship will steer us in
42:05the in the right direction. But that
42:06also takes time. So I think if you are
42:10hiring and you're trying to bring
42:12incredible talent on board, it can't be
42:14a one-touch point thing. It's going to
42:16be you're going to have to sell
42:17yourself. Un, you know, later down the
42:20line they will have to sell themselves
42:21to you. But I I I think people think
42:24just cuz you're paying someone's salary
42:26or you're offering them a great
42:27compensation plan that all of a sudden
42:29they're going to be falling at your
42:30feet. No. Like great talent,
42:34>> great talent will always make a lot of
42:36money and they're not they know that.
42:38Okay? So, you know,
42:39>> your comp plan isn't going to interest
42:41them. And by the way, someone else might
42:43have a stronger comp plan than you have.
42:45>> That doesn't mean that that will
42:46interest them either. I think really it
42:48comes down to the culture. Do they like
42:50the culture they work with? And by the
42:51way, there's certain companies where
42:53like I don't like their culture uh
42:56personally, but that's a personal thing.
42:58But everyone in there loves their
42:59culture. So culture is also, of course,
43:01you're going to attract generally you're
43:03going to attract people that are like
43:04you.
43:05>> Uh so it comes down to your culture. It
43:08comes down to the competence of the
43:10founder um and the respect that people
43:12have for the founder. Because I also
43:14think
43:16this is a bit hard to know, but I see
43:19unfortunately and and by the way, this
43:21is coming from someone like I would say
43:23from 2019 to 2022, I was a lifestyle
43:26entrepreneur. And I openly say that like
43:28I was playing at 70% of my potential.
43:30And when you're a lifestyle
43:31entrepreneur, you can't have the top the
43:34best talent in the world. And you can't
43:36have people that even though they could
43:37go make three times as much money here
43:38tomorrow, they're going to say, you know
43:40what, let me I'm not going to do that
43:41because I see longer potential staying
43:42in this organization. So that's a hard
43:46thing to know from the beginning because
43:47unfortunately I've seen it many a time
43:49where people you know start having some
43:51success and then unfortunately they
43:52think that they're
43:55their PA can do everything or you know
43:57oh you want to speak to me you have to
43:58go through multiple chains of command
43:59and oh you know now like
44:01>> I'm paying everyone's salary so I can go
44:03home at 5 or 6 p.m. like I don't need to
44:04be the last one to leave the office and
44:06the and the first one in. Um, but
44:10unfortunately that's a bit hard because
44:11you never know what people are going to
44:12react how people are going to react uh
44:13when they have that success.
44:15>> I also think there's like very different
44:16company cultures for different products,
44:18different age brackets. Like you can see
44:20this I think LRA and maybe some of your
44:22other companies also just very different
44:23cultures. Doesn't mean one is better. It
44:25just means they're different and I agree
44:27with you on the founder point.
44:28>> I actually wanted to talk more about
44:29that because so you travel um a lot with
44:32your team and they're all like excellent
44:33at what they do. Um, and you also live
44:35with some of your team, which is very
44:37different than a lot of founders do,
44:39like very different.
44:40>> And was that intentional or because
44:43you've, you know, you you grew up,
44:45you've lived by yourself. Um, I know you
44:46told me you like your personal space.
44:48>> Um, but you seem to have given that up.
44:50And so, was that intentional? Do you
44:52recommend that? Because I I agree. I
44:55think one of the things you're the best
44:56at is building like strong culture and
44:58attracting like great people who want to
44:59stay and work with you.
45:01>> But that's a that's very hard to do, you
45:03know? like you can build a great
45:04product, you can get traction, whatever.
45:06But again, I agree the best people make
45:08a lot of money very quickly and they
45:10know that they will always make more.
45:12They're not staying for that, especially
45:13because I think there's very big
45:14diminishing returns. So, how do you like
45:17do that?
45:19>> Yeah, it's it's a great question and I
45:21guess there's a couple nuances there.
45:22First things first is the way you manage
45:25a team is very different depending on
45:26age demographic as well. And that's
45:28something that I is a bigger issue
45:30because most of the people that I work
45:32with are in their 20s or 30s and I would
45:34say majority of them as as it currently
45:36stands don't have a wife or kids. Once
45:38you have wife or kids the likeliness of
45:40someone leaving is substantially lower
45:42and their willingness to jump from
45:44organization to organization is also
45:45substantially lower because they have a
45:47sense of responsibility. Whereas, you
45:49know, when you're hiring a 28 or 29 year
45:51old on the basis, you know, if they
45:53don't have, you know, a family, they're
45:55like, "Oh, well, screw it." Like,
45:57whatever. Even if I'm not making income
45:58for a few months, it doesn't matter cuz
46:00I don't have a wife, kids, and, you
46:01know, they can [clears throat]
46:02opportunity hop from opportunity to
46:04opportunity. So, that's actually
46:05something that's made it, I guess, even
46:07more impressive how I've been able to
46:09keep talent. And also in my world,
46:13my team will be sitting in on meetings
46:14and we're talking about like when we're
46:19looking at the numbers and we're like,
46:20"Okay, in the last 30 days, people have
46:21made $179 million, earned $179 million
46:24on WOP." And they're like, "Wait, but
46:26that's like an everyday person. I I
46:28could make that kind of money." So that
46:29makes it even more difficult to keep
46:31people around. Uh so with all that being
46:35said, I
46:37from business to business, it's very
46:39different. Okay. So obviously with LRA,
46:42we're only looking for talent here
46:43domestically. Um you know, people that
46:45are willing to move to the New York
46:47office. Uh and that brings some
46:50constraints, some geographical
46:52constraints. In my other businesses,
46:54I've always said like my dying wish is
46:56personally to have an office. But for us
46:58right now, we have offices with
47:00companies that we have ownership in. Um,
47:02and that works for us. But in terms of
47:04like the uh digital product business,
47:06which is basically like the the center
47:09point of this whole thing, it gives us
47:10the funds, the distribution, the users,
47:12the all this sort of stuff. Our big
47:14advantage is global talent. So that's
47:16one thing we've been able to do really
47:17well. If we need marketers, we're going
47:19to Brazil. If we need um uh uh customer
47:22success um uh you know uh customer
47:24success u um
47:27product facing people we're going to
47:29South Africa that's been probably the
47:30best in the world.
47:31>> Yes we're good at that.
47:32>> So yeah you guys are great at product.
47:34>> Yeah you are trying your best
47:35>> and over you know
47:38going combing through literally 100,000
47:40plus applications uh we have found
47:42certain pockets of the world where
47:44talent is better and we've spotted
47:46patterns. Um I don't you know sometimes
47:50uh people will tell me that oh you
47:52shouldn't you know you shouldn't
47:53generalize people and I'm like listen
47:54for me it's just sp pattern spotting. So
47:56when you've spoken to so many people and
47:59when you've done so much hiring you
48:00start to spot patterns and you pick up
48:02that okay South Africans have this sort
48:04of work culture and this sort of work
48:06ethic. Brazilians have this sort of work
48:08ethic, work culture. Americans have this
48:10sort of work culture, work ethic.
48:12Spanish people generally and these are
48:14generalizations that yeah
48:15generalizations now not all
48:17generalizations are true but it does
48:19generally help you start to understand
48:22okay cool this person fits into this
48:23criteria this person fits into this
48:25criteria
48:26>> when it comes to building a good company
48:27culture basically what I'm very good at
48:29is I understand there's some people that
48:32are
48:34I had this one gentleman I I've been
48:36work you know we've been working
48:37together for eight years uh and he he
48:40calls it a lifer Um, there's some people
48:43who are lifers and as in like they'll
48:44stay at the company for life and there's
48:46some people who there's some people we
48:47hire and I know they're not going to be
48:49lifers and I know that because of a
48:51number one their role and I'm not
48:53emotional about it. Like for example,
48:54customer support. There's only so much
48:57you can involve in customer support and
48:59it's a it's a role I would love to have
49:02someone in customer support for 10
49:03years. Yeah.
49:04>> But it's a role generally that has a
49:05higher turn rate especially because of
49:07uh our age our age demographic. Now, if
49:10we have, you know, if our average age
49:12demographic was 40 plus, even if they
49:14stay in customer support, generally
49:16people who are above the age of 40,
49:17they're less likely to hop from
49:18opportunity to opportunity and job to
49:20job. You know, in our 25 to 35, it's
49:23very common. So, [snorts] I just know
49:24that the life cycle of that person, it's
49:26not me, by the way, it's them, is going
49:28to be small. And I'm not upset about it
49:30either, as well. Another [snorts]
49:31example is uh sales reps.
49:34Sales reps also have the same thing, a
49:36two, usually a two-year life cycle. And
49:38that's because they need to feel like
49:40they're growing. And it's funny, even
49:42though they could be making
49:43substantially more money as every month
49:45goes by, it's got nothing to do with
49:46money. I can see it very clearly where
49:49they make three times as much money, yet
49:50they're unhappy. And it's because they
49:52don't feel like they're growing and
49:53evolving and moving and um they don't
49:56have a new challenge.
49:57>> Do you think that's just because they're
49:58competitive?
49:59>> I think so. Yeah. And so that's actually
50:01another like observation I've had sort
50:03of spending time with you over the years
50:04is I genuinely think you don't care
50:06about the money.
50:07>> I think you are literally just one of
50:09the most competitive people I know who
50:11literally just wants to win. And I
50:13remember you not so long ago you were on
50:14holiday somewhere I think Spain and you
50:16left early just cuz you had too much
50:18like work on your mind and probably it
50:20was an extremely nice extravagant place
50:22an amazing holiday and you left that to
50:24go back and sit and work. Very few
50:26people would do that at that level. And
50:29when it comes to company culture, I I
50:31think that that's actually what drives
50:32your companies is that like
50:33competitiveness to win, to grow, because
50:36if you're competing, you're by
50:37definition always just getting better
50:39and better and better. And I actually
50:41think that that's the one thing that you
50:42like have at your core and that you
50:44instill in your companies. Would you
50:45agree with that?
50:47>> I think that's correct. And that's why
50:49as I said going back if this was 5 years
50:51ago I wouldn't be able to attract and
50:54keep the talent that I have because the
50:55thing is I do genuinely in my core
50:57believe there's a certain level of your
50:59team needs to look at you and go there's
51:01a reason he's in that position and and
51:04if they don't I think there's resentment
51:05that builds because they go wait why is
51:08as the leader of this company why are we
51:11not following orders per se but why is
51:13this individual generally steering the
51:15direction but also I guess this comes
51:17into like also So company culture cuz
51:18some companies and even companies we
51:20invest in that I actually don't believe
51:22I don't agree with this at all have a
51:24flat org and they're a little too
51:27this person say is equal to this person
51:29say which I don't believe in at all. My
51:31opinion in life is everyone deserves an
51:33opinion. Not everyone deserves a say.
51:35And what I mean by that is I think I'm
51:36allowed an opinion on everything. But
51:37there's certain things where my opinion
51:39quite frankly
51:39>> is a little irrelevant uh because it's
51:42not backed up by any sort of
51:43credentials. So whatever that's a
51:45separate discussion of like how you run
51:47your company. Um
51:49but in our companies the way that or the
51:52ones that I'm majority owners in uh I
51:56believe that your team needs to look at
51:58you and have the respect and go you know
51:59what there's a reason this individual's
52:01in the position that he is. Uh, and I
52:04know why I can't take a spot because I
52:07think no matter how
52:09I think it is only human nature to look
52:12at someone and compare yourself and I
52:14think this is why I went back to that
52:16founder thing and you are correct like
52:18Jenny I was very fortunate multiple
52:21times to hit a number where I kind of
52:23promised myself I would take a few years
52:25off but that never panned out.
52:26>> Yeah, here we are.
52:27>> Here [laughter] we are. Um, so for me,
52:30yeah, Jenny, I really don't do it for
52:32the money. I do it for the love of the
52:33game and I do it because I love the
52:34people that I work with and I think your
52:38team needs to look at you and go
52:39unequivocally without a doubt there's a
52:41reason why this person is in the
52:42position that they are and I don't think
52:44you can be a lifestyle entrepreneur. I I
52:46think uh you know even maybe some people
52:48have this wrong assumption of me that
52:49I'm a lifestyle entrepreneur. It's
52:51unfortunate there's a lot of stuff that
52:53I just cannot put online. And like most
52:54people don't see my actual day-to-day
52:56life or maybe they only know me, going
52:57back to the earlier conversation, they
52:59only know me for one the fun side of my
53:02life, which is like 1% of my life. They
53:03don't know me for the other uh portions
53:05of my life.
53:05>> I think people would be shocked at how
53:08much you know about the business side
53:10and how much work you actually do there.
53:12>> I'm very involved. Yeah.
53:13>> Literally. Yeah.
53:14>> And as I said, I love it. And I think
53:16maybe um I know the day that I slow down
53:20as this might sound horrible to some
53:22people who are in the work life balance
53:24uh camp which I don't believe in. Uh
53:28I think it it might be a little
53:30horrifying to some people but I I think
53:32part of it is a bit of a fear that I
53:34know that if I do slow down
53:37the team will sense it and and I think
53:39they lose a sense of respect for you. I
53:41really do because they go,
53:43>> you know what, maybe I could do what
53:44this guy does.
53:45>> And and then and then everything that
53:46they're hearing and all these
53:47opportunities that they're seeing and
53:48they're like, oh, you know what, maybe I
53:50do go take this position in other
53:51company or you know what and take this
53:53promotion or this raise or this, you
53:55know, higher starting salary or you
53:57know, maybe I go do my own thing. But
53:58when they're in an organization and they
54:00can see the growth of the organization
54:01and they know that you know what I'm
54:03killing myself but the the person who's
54:06above me and it's not just the leader
54:08itself it's also all the seauite I think
54:10need to follow the exact same thing. You
54:12can't ever ask something of someone if
54:13you're not willing to do it yourself and
54:15you can't ask another person to give
54:16100% if you're not going to give 100
54:1710%. So I think maybe that's also one of
54:19the reasons is a bit of fear knowing
54:21that if I do if I'm not there to
54:27steer the ship and maybe if the team
54:28does sense a little bit of smell a bit
54:30of complacency
54:31maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong. I
54:33think there's a bit of fear I have
54:34around that.
54:35>> I think that's so true and I think
54:36that's why founder mode has become so
54:38popular and you see that I think
54:39Zuckerberg's probably one of the best
54:40examples. It's a super aggressive
54:42founder. Um all right, I want to end off
54:45with just going into a rapid round of
54:46questions. So, let's start with New York
54:48vers London. Give me your opinion.
54:51>> New York to make money, London to spend
54:53money. [snorts]
54:54>> Top three principles for life.
54:58>> Deep one. Um, [snorts]
55:01be pessimistic and if it still makes
55:03sense, do it.
55:04>> Yeah,
55:04>> it served me pretty well. Um,
55:08it's not about what you do, it's about
55:10who you do it with. I guess just radical
55:13self-awareness of
55:16where you are in life and what you're
55:18capable of. I think a lot of people
55:19romanticize that they're, as horrible as
55:21it sounds, capable of a lot more than
55:23they are in that given moment.
55:25>> Uh I'm very aware of my shortcomings and
55:28there's certain things I'm like, you
55:29know, I just
55:31>> I actually just don't have that in the
55:32locker right now. [laughter] Oh,
55:33>> fair enough. And I think it it shows
55:35your self-awareness to say that as well.
55:37>> Um so, same question with a bit more
55:39fun. Top three rules for dating. O. Um,
55:44top three rules for dating. Number one,
55:46ask yourself, are you looking for a
55:48girlfriend or a wife? I think they're
55:49two very different things. Um,
55:53yeah, the attributes you look for a wife
55:55is very different than like, oh, you
55:56know what? Let's just
55:58see where this goes. I think going back
56:00to the business [laughter] principle,
56:01it's actually similar, which is like be
56:03super pessimistic and if it still makes
56:04sense, do it.
56:05>> There we go.
56:05>> Uh, as in like look at the worst sides
56:07of a person and go, okay, are you are
56:09you going to is that fine? Does that
56:10work for you? Because no one's perfect.
56:12Uh, and the last thing is top three
56:15rules for dating is never let go of the
56:18person that has 75% of what you want in
56:21search for that other 25% in another
56:24person, but all they have is that 25%.
56:27>> Yeah.
56:27>> So,
56:28>> I think I think a lot of people fall for
56:30that. I would agree.
56:31>> Um, what is the the one thing that
56:33you've changed your mind the most on in
56:35the last like 12 months? You had a super
56:36strong opinion and something happened
56:38and you've changed.
56:40H
56:43I also have never seen you thinking so
56:45deeply before.
56:46>> Yeah, I want to give you good answers.
56:48The issue is there there's so many
56:50things. Uh
56:53I guess maybe it's just that having a
56:54strong opinions on things like I I
56:57listen I'm still not perfect, but I
56:58think as time has gone on, I've just
56:59realized like you just see so much crazy
57:01stuff in the world. And I think actually
57:04one of the big things is investing. Uh I
57:07was having this conversation just
57:11regarding where I'm going to deploy some
57:13capital and some more safe boring stuff.
57:15Uh um I was talking about the stock
57:18market and where I see it and
57:21before I think I would have been very
57:24even just a few years ago I was a lot
57:25more opinionated of like listen the
57:27market is I'm always a little bit more
57:29bearish. uh I would have been a little
57:32bit more opinionated of oh the market's
57:33overvalued blah blah this that and now
57:36these days I've just realized you know
57:37what I just I I know all and
57:42I think uh that's a strong belief that
57:44has changed is just my um tendency in
57:47the past to have strong beliefs.
57:49>> Yeah, I think that's so true. Listen, I
57:51want to say thank you for coming on.
57:53It's been a privilege to know you for
57:55the last couple years and and see sort
57:56of the journey. This is like maybe the
57:58third time we've actually been on a
57:59YouTube video. First time, different
58:01agencies, different countries. So, it's
58:04been such a privilege to see you grow
58:05and change in the success. And um thank
58:07you for doing this.
58:08>> Thank you for having me.

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