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How I Built Directory Sites that Generate $2,500/mo+ in Passive Income — Transcript

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0:00What is a good uh directory topic to to
0:02dive into? I wanted to have a business
0:06that was scalable, that was high margin,
0:09low startup cost, that could be sold as
0:12an asset that can be done anywhere in
0:14the world.
0:14>> 2500 to $3,000 a month you're earning is
0:17about as close to passive as possible.
0:20>> I haven't really worked on any of these
0:22websites for probably 6 months at this
0:24point. When I saw how much I made at the
0:26end of the month, I was again shocked.
0:28around $1,200.
0:30>> So much of what you're saying is going
0:32to echo with people listening.
0:34>> The reason why my directories are
0:35boring, they work, is because Google
0:38Maps is still kind of bad at helping you
0:41find certain things.
0:42>> How important do you think link building
0:44is to the success of your directories?
0:47You got to have a good strategy for
0:49getting back links.
0:50>> The display ad concept is going to make
0:51a lot of sense for most people
0:52listening. If I'm going for display ads,
0:54I'm going for as much volume, as high
0:56search uh traffic as I can. What's your
0:59first 30 days once you've got a
1:00directory live? I've seen a lot of
1:02people fail at that. So, what I would
1:04recommend is actually
1:08>> All right, welcome back to the Niche
1:09Pursuits podcast. My name is Jared Bomb.
1:12Today, we've are joined by Frey, a uh
1:14SEO and directory builder. Frey, welcome
1:17on board.
1:18>> Thanks, Jared. Appreciate you having me
1:19on.
1:20>> Well, it's gonna be a good one today. I
1:22said it a lot. I've been saying it a lot
1:23lately, but we've had some great guests
1:24lately and today I'm excited about the
1:27topic. I mean, we could go uh some
1:28different directions because you do have
1:30your hands in a bunch of different
1:31things. We're going to focus though for
1:33the majority of the interview on this
1:35directory building uh that you've been
1:38doing and that you've had a lot of
1:39success with, especially of late. I
1:41mean, directories making a bit of a
1:43renaissance from my seat, you know, in
1:45terms of what's getting talked about in
1:47our industry online. I'm sure you uh
1:50know that and understand that very well.
1:52Of course. Um hey, before we get into
1:54the details though, can you share with
1:55us your background a little bit? Maybe
1:57how you got started in what you're doing
1:59today?
2:00>> Yeah, sure. Um yeah, so Directories is
2:02not my first business. It's not where I
2:04started. Um I've always been attracted
2:08to the entrepreneurial life. I started a
2:10business right out of college. It was an
2:12e-commerce footwear brand. Ran that for
2:14five years. After that, uh you know, got
2:17really burnt out. tried to do the whole
2:19flipping, flea markets, garage sales,
2:21that whole thing. I did that for
2:24probably a year and a half, and that was
2:25my second main business, real scrappy,
2:28and uh was paying rent that way. Um, and
2:30then I realized that I wanted to have a
2:35business that was scalable, that was
2:39high margin, low startup cost, that
2:41could be sold as an asset, and that can
2:43be done anywhere in the world. And that
2:45was just my new standard because at that
2:47point you started up businesses where
2:48you're like, "Okay, I don't think this
2:50is for me long term." And I looked
2:52everywhere, scoured the internet, found
2:53SAS and websites or niche websites. At
2:56the time, niche websites were huge. It
2:58was around 2022.
3:01And then we saw the core update that
3:03destroyed a lot of niche websites as I'm
3:06sure a lot of your audience members
3:07know. And so I just figured, hey, I
3:10would just I didn't even think about
3:11building directories. I just learned
3:13SEO, just selftaught myself through
3:14YouTube, and then said, "Hey, let me
3:16just apply what I'm learning to a
3:18website." And this directory thing, I
3:21kind of subconsciously realized a lot of
3:22these websites that are still pretty
3:24steady in hrefs um are directories.
3:28They're super resilient. So, I played
3:30around, built it, and within 6 months,
3:34it was getting a thousand visitors a
3:37day. And I was like, "What the heck?" I
3:39remember randomly just signing into my
3:41Google Search Console and I was like,
3:42"Wait a second." Um, so I just threw on
3:45some ads and when I saw how much I made
3:48at the end of the month, I was again
3:50shocked. It was around $1,200
3:53pretty much pure profit.
3:55And that was essentially kind of the
3:58turning point where I said, "Okay, I can
4:00probably build a lot of these." And that
4:03was three years ago, almost three years
4:05ago at this point. So, since then, I've
4:07built a bunch of other directories in
4:09random niches. Some B TOC, some B2B, um,
4:13some in healthcare, some in like
4:15thrifting niches. Super random, but
4:18that's that's what I continue to do
4:20today.
4:22Hey everyone, this episode is sponsored
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4:52below. Okay, now back to the episode.
4:58So, this is going to be interesting
4:59because a lot of people with SEO chops
5:01have been listening to this podcast for
5:03years. You kind of alluded to it
5:04yourself, like, "Hey, I got into the
5:06niche site business, uh, niche
5:09pursuits." Like, so much of what you're
5:11saying is going to echo with people
5:13listening. And I think a lot of people
5:15listening since HCU, since the helpful
5:17content update have kind of been
5:19struggling with what do I do with my SEO
5:21skills, you know, and a lot of people
5:22have gone into services and started
5:24providing that as a service- wide
5:30hustle or projects they can build and
5:32then sell using SEO. And here we have
5:35directories that you're talking about
5:36that uses a lot of those SEO skill sets
5:39and you're applying in a way that's
5:41creating a kind of somewhat passive
5:43asset that can be sold. So anyways, you
5:46I'm kind of just resharing what you
5:47said, but maybe before we get into how
5:49you built some of these and what's
5:50working, can you tell us where you're at
5:52right now? Any numbers you're
5:53comfortable with on the directory side
5:55of things, like how many, what kind of
5:57traffic they get, maybe what kind of
5:59what what they make, that sort of thing.
6:01>> Yeah, totally. Um, so I just I'm an open
6:04book, but I just don't share URLs. The
6:05first time I did that, it invited a few
6:07competitors. Um, right now I have uh I
6:11probably have around
6:14eight or so directories, but four of
6:16them are directories where I truly went
6:19A through Z, like did the on-page stuff,
6:21built the links, at least starting to.
6:24um three of them are ranking uh rank one
6:28page one for the target keyword. Um in
6:31total I think those are probably around
6:3480 to 100,000 monthly visitors for the
6:37first three directories. The fourth
6:38one's just recently launched, so that's
6:40why I'm trying not to count that. But um
6:43yeah, in I would say this month I'm on
6:46pace to do right around $2,500.
6:49Um that's passive. I haven't really
6:52worked on any of these websites for
6:54probably six months at this point. And
6:56yeah, for the last three years or so,
6:59that's just been the case. It's always
7:00hovered around the like $2,300 to $3,000
7:04month passive. Uh, and that's personally
7:06because I like to go for the boring
7:09evergreen niches. Um, typically what I
7:11see is that there's two different types
7:13of directories. You have your evergreen
7:15passive directories that just monetize
7:17through display ads. You can think
7:18Mediavine, Ezoic, AdSense, and then you
7:21have your lead genen where you have
7:22sponsored listings, feature listings.
7:24You can do top of the funnel to agency
7:27services as you mentioned. And that's
7:29where you get a lot more lucrative and
7:30high ceiling with your earning
7:32potential. For me personally, I've just
7:34audited my own ideal lifestyle and the
7:37way that I work. I like to sprint really
7:39hard and then just chill out. That's
7:41just how I am right now. I'm in a chill
7:43out phase. Um, and so it's nice to just
7:47have that recoccurring income even
7:48though it's lower and in my mind I know
7:51I can kind of chase something higher.
7:53It's just my personal preference. And so
7:57um yeah, that's that's kind of what uh
8:00what I I've buil built so far.
8:04>> It it's great. Congratulations because I
8:06I think you know we we hear about
8:08passive and for those of you listening
8:10I'm using air quotes here. Um, and a lot
8:12of the stuff that we end up getting into
8:14and building on the internet is far from
8:15passive. It's just not maybe full-time
8:17work. But I would say this 2500 to
8:20$3,000 a month you're earning is about
8:22as close to passive as possible. I mean,
8:25we're really talking like you haven't
8:27spent any time on it in six months. You
8:30hardly spent much time beyond the build
8:32phase of it, right?
8:34>> Yes. I will say like because it's so
8:37nuanced uh and yeah, you're absolutely
8:39correct. uh you spend a hundred hours in
8:42the beginning, right? It's hard work in
8:43the beginning. You do the on page, you
8:45build some links, make sure that gets to
8:47the front page and at a certain point
8:49when you feel like you're happy with the
8:51traffic and it's ranking on the first
8:53page high enough, um yeah, that's when
8:56you can kind of coast and that's been
8:58the case.
8:59>> Well, awesome. Okay, let's get into some
9:01of the details here. I've got a laundry
9:03list of questions, so I'm going to try
9:04to maximize the time we have with you.
9:06Let's do it. From a high level, people
9:08are going to be familiar with
9:08directories, but they're going to be
9:09familiar with them on a different scale,
9:11right? A lot of people are going to be
9:12familiar with them, say in the
9:14oldfashioned 25 years ago model that is
9:18archaic and feels like something that
9:20they don't want to create. A lot of
9:21people are going to be more familiar
9:22with them in terms of newer directories
9:25that have gotten shared and are talked
9:26about um on on Twitter or X and these
9:29sorts of things. What is a directory as
9:32it as as it relates to what you're
9:34building? talk about from a high level
9:35what it is in its principal state.
9:38>> Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. Um,
9:40so directories are archaic and they are
9:43old. The difference is that the
9:45directories that are successful today
9:47are actually aiding in the decision-m,
9:51right? I think they're like I guess the
9:54on paper difference is that there's so
9:56much more data enrichment. If you look
9:58at listings back then, it's like name,
10:00address, phone number,
10:01>> right? I was gonna mention NAP and a lot
10:03of us who are experienced with SEO will
10:05think of directories as maybe just you
10:06know citation building.
10:08>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um but I
10:10think to go the extra mile if you want
10:12to compete in today's landscape you have
10:15to actually put yourself in the shoes of
10:18who is typing the keyword which I know a
10:20lot of us do but I'll I always give the
10:22example of daycare right? If you think
10:25about it a parent is handing a child to
10:28a bunch of strangers at a facility. They
10:29probably have a bunch of questions like
10:31are you licensed? Are there
10:33entertainment options? Is there a
10:35itinerary or schedule? Of course, what's
10:37the price? You know, there's a lot of
10:39there's a lack of price transparency in
10:41so many niches and um there's so many
10:46micro decisions that uh you know,
10:48ultimately lead to someone choosing the
10:50right daycare facility. Uh proximity is
10:53just a small one which I think most
10:54people think of with directories. Um and
10:58then like there's another side of the
11:00coin which is simpler. Uh the types of
11:01directories that I build is really just
11:04consolidated information. So in the
11:06sense it's like the same thing. In my
11:08opinion, a directory is just a list. I
11:09like to just call it a list. The utility
11:11of a list is actually really underrated.
11:13It's never going to go away in my
11:15opinion. But consolidation is like still
11:19very valuable. And the reason why my
11:21directories are boring and like they
11:24work is because Google Maps is still
11:28kind of bad at helping you find certain
11:30things. And if anyone's listening and
11:33they want to test this out, you can go
11:34to Google Maps and type in liquidation
11:36store and see what pops up. You'll see
11:3899 cent stores, you'll see thrift
11:40stores, you'll see liquidation services
11:43for businesses. But some people just
11:45like to shop at liquidation stores. It
11:47gets something like 20,000 monthly
11:48searches a month. So it's not really
11:51clear. There's a lot of fragmented
11:52search and so the value that you provide
11:55with these types of directories that I'm
11:56building is just consolidating that
11:58information so it's easy to find in one
12:00place. So you have like the data
12:02enrichment side which I would argue is
12:04more tied towards like lead generation
12:07you know high ceiling high profit niches
12:09and then like the boring stuff the
12:11evergreen stuff which I do where the
12:12inherent value is just it's hard to find
12:15like it actually is still hard to find
12:16in 2025 and there are niches where
12:18that's the case. Uh so hopefully I kind
12:21of explained uh you know those two
12:23compartments uh in an easy to understand
12:26way. No, you did. And I'm glad you made
12:28the separation of, hey, there's kind of
12:31just aggregating data. It's almost like
12:33a list. It's almost like pulling stuff
12:34together that people have a hard time
12:36finding otherwise because Google, Google
12:38Maps, other, you know, other search
12:40platforms just haven't done a good job.
12:41But then there's the data enrichment
12:42method which is kind of like combining
12:44different sets of data that exist
12:47independently but you're doing something
12:49unique by just bringing it together and
12:50therefore giving someone an experience
12:52that they might be able to find on their
12:53own but they'd have to go to three or
12:54four different places and and know the
12:56prompts to have to even look for it in
12:57the first place.
12:58>> Exactly.
12:59>> Um let's talk about selection or you
13:02know really niche selection or directory
13:03selection. I mean you have some
13:04experience. You said I think you said
13:06you started eight directories. Four
13:08you're actively working on three are
13:09doing really well. You've been doing
13:10this for a while. You mentioned a bit at
13:13the beginning about there's B2B, there's
13:15B TOC, there's lucrative niches, there's
13:18boring niches. Like, where do you start
13:20when you're coming up with what to what
13:22what to what is a good uh directory
13:24topic to to dive into?
13:26>> Yeah, I think this is a question that
13:29always circles back to what you want.
13:31And it's like, you know, it's a it's the
13:34kind of cliche thing, but you kind of
13:37want to decide how you want to monetize.
13:40Are you like me where you just want to
13:42kind of chill out and have something
13:43passive, put the work up front, um, but
13:46you will earn less, or do you want
13:48something more active, something that
13:50will give you quit your job money, you
13:52know what I mean? Um, that is really
13:54important because that's going to
13:56influence your keyword research that's
13:57going to influence everything. uh how
14:00your website's structured, how much data
14:01enrichment, it's going to influence the
14:03cost of your project. Uh for something
14:06like mine, um you know, I look for high
14:09search volume. That's like pretty basic,
14:11pretty straightforward. Something around
14:1320 to 50,000 monthly searches, uh with a
14:16ton of location-based queries. So, for
14:19example, like with the liquidation
14:21store, maybe liquidation near me gets
14:2220,000 monthly searches, but I know I'm
14:24not going to rank for that right off the
14:26bat. I probably will rank for things
14:29like liquidation store Bakersfield
14:32California or something like something
14:33like that. And then slowly over time as
14:35I gain Google's trust, I'll maybe end up
14:38just with a broad keyword liquidation
14:40store near me. So you want those
14:42location-based queries to have enough
14:44search volume, ideally I don't know 500
14:48to a,000 per major city like liquidation
14:51store Los Angeles, liquidation store
14:53Seattle, etc., etc.
14:55um because I know that that's what's
14:56going to rank. Um and so those are the
14:59kind of keywords I try to look for. I
15:02also consider, you know, the nature of
15:04the business. Is it going to like move
15:07around a lot? How hard is the data to
15:09acquire? With liquidation stores,
15:11they're, you know, they have a location.
15:13It's like brick and mortar. So, it's
15:15pretty evergreen. Like, it's not unless
15:16they close down, I won't have to worry
15:18about it. Uh with lead genen, you don't
15:20have to worry as much about high search
15:22volume. Uh if you have some high ticket
15:26niche, let's say commercial demolition,
15:29I think I looked that up. There's 50
15:31people a month um you know, searching
15:34that keyword, especially the location
15:35based ones.
15:36>> If you just get one out of those 50 and
15:40you sell that lead to a commercial
15:42demolition company, that could be worth
15:44tens of thousands of dollars. And the
15:46same is true for some healthcare niches
15:48and finance niches, uh legal niches. Um,
15:52so you don't have to worry about that as
15:54much. I would just look at the keyword
15:57difficulty to an extent and then I would
15:59have a strong backlink game. You got you
16:02got to have a good strategy for getting
16:04back links. Um, not so much like
16:06worrying about search volume in my
16:08opinion because it's all like really
16:10high buyer intentbased keywords for
16:12those types of niches. Um, yeah. So,
16:16>> how much does competition play into
16:18this? Are you like would you avoid a
16:21topic if say you go to Google and you
16:24type liquidation store near me and I
16:27come up and there's eight you know we
16:29can't say 10 results anymore but let's
16:30just say out of the eight results Google
16:31has on page one four of them are already
16:33directories. Is that too much
16:35competition or would you say oh that's
16:37actually a good sign Google's ranking
16:38directories. Let me go see if those
16:40directories are doing a good job. uh
16:42where does competition play into this?
16:43Because we're used to it perhaps in
16:46other areas of uh of niche of niche
16:48research, but maybe not so much here.
16:51>> Yeah, huge green flag. Actually, that's
16:53one of the biggest factors that I look
16:55for is a directory on the front page and
16:58it's just proof that it works and that I
17:00don't know if it's a search intent or
17:02Google prefers the directory structure
17:04for whatever reason. Um, however, it's
17:07kind of a double-edged sword, right? If
17:09you see care.com and you're like or
17:11Angie's List, right, some of these
17:13directories are so massive that they've
17:15done an incredible job with data
17:17enrichment. So, I always ask myself when
17:19I come across a niche with one of those
17:21massive companies in the front page, can
17:24I improve upon this or can I niche down
17:26further? So, like
17:28>> with daycarees, I think care.com is in
17:31daycarees. I might niche down to
17:33something like this is a keyword I
17:35recently found. um uh daycares with
17:39cameras. So like parents want and
17:42apparently it's a dealbreaker for them.
17:44Maybe they travel a lot, they're busy,
17:45they want a daycare where they can like
17:48log into an app or just yeah basically
17:51see and check up check up on their kids
17:54anytime they want. And maybe that's a
17:56deciding factor. And so you can
17:58basically create a directory niched down
18:01and just consolidate all the daycarees
18:03with a camera. and that could be kind of
18:05your competitive edge and then get
18:07topical authority with just that
18:08specific keyword. Um, so yeah, those are
18:11like the two questions that I asked
18:13myself, but actually really important to
18:15for me personally to to find a directory
18:17on the front page for sure.
18:19>> Awesome. Okay. Um, let's talk about
18:21building the directory. Uh, there's a
18:23number of different ways to go about it.
18:24I know structure of the directory can be
18:26very important. We've we've had someone
18:28on a couple years ago who talked about
18:30um how important that is and so we've
18:33talked about that like where do you come
18:34at it from the building side of things.
18:37>> Yep. Um so mainly two structures. It's
18:41got to be the pillar page directory uh
18:44or just your traditional directory where
18:46there's individual listing pages. And it
18:48really the decision to choose which
18:51structure you're going to go with starts
18:53at the keyword research I would say. Um,
18:55so there's like kind of two areas that I
18:57look at. Uh, if all of the keyword, uh,
19:00the search volume is around those
19:01location based keywords like liquidation
19:03store Los Angeles, then I'm going to go
19:06on Google, just type it in and look at
19:08the top three SERs and see what what
19:12structure they have. If it's more or
19:14less like a listical or like, you know,
19:17yeah, like a pillar page, then that's
19:18what I'm going to go with. I'm just
19:19going to make it better. I'm going to
19:20add more data enrichment. And that
19:22simple strategy has worked out really
19:24well for me. Um, so yeah, and then I
19:28would say the traditional directory with
19:31individual listing pages, uh, if there's
19:33a lot of keyword volume around Freys
19:36liquidation store or Bob's liquidation
19:39store, uh, because it's just got a
19:41reputation. There's a lot of niches
19:43where that's the case. Um, then I would
19:45probably build out its own listing page
19:46because it deserves it. Uh I want people
19:48to basically use that as a landing page.
19:51Um so that's like a very simplistic
19:54approach. Uh whether you go with your
19:57traditional one or a pillar page
19:58directory. I think pillar page directory
20:01structures are so underrated. Like I'm
20:03building one right now uh for a keyword
20:05that gets like a 100,000 monthly um
20:08searches. It's like so boring, so under
20:11the radar. And yeah, it's should turn
20:15out pretty good. I think
20:17>> maybe dive deeper, explain the pillar
20:19page methodology maybe as it relates to
20:21the example you've been using was
20:22liquidation pages just so everybody
20:24really gets it
20:25>> down. Um because it's important that you
20:28make this decision properly on the front
20:30end. Not saying it's irreversible, but
20:32if you don't make the decision on the
20:34front end of how you're going to
20:35structure some of these things, like it
20:36can be harder down the road once you
20:38either start ranking or once you realize
20:40that you didn't follow maybe a process.
20:42It's not as simple as like a straight
20:43blog, I guess, is what I'm saying.
20:44>> Totally. Totally. Yeah. So, the
20:46difference is just that a traditional
20:48directory with listings that you can
20:50click into is four layers deep from the
20:53homepage. So, think about starting from
20:55the homepage, you go to liquidation
20:57stores New York, right? That's a state
21:00page. And then you go to
21:02liquidation stores in Brooklyn, New
21:04York. That's a city within the state
21:05page. And then you click on phrase
21:08liquidation stores in Brooklyn, New
21:09York. So, like four layers deep.
21:11>> The pillar page structure is just three
21:14layers deep. you just stop at the city
21:16specific page. Uh if you want, you can
21:18even make it two layers deep. My first
21:20thrifting directory is literally just 50
21:22pages on a WordPress site, one page for
21:26every state, and it gets 60 70,000
21:29monthly visitors. It's a pillar page in
21:31the sense that all the information is
21:33just on like liquidation stores New
21:37York, that version of the page, and it's
21:40really long. Like you can't
21:42>> one big listical. like every time a new
21:44thrift store pops up, you just plop it
21:45in there and it's just one long
21:47listicle.
21:48>> One super long listicle um with a table
21:52of contents, uh internal links to the
21:54other state pages on the bottom. And the
21:56great thing is that yes, it's not the
21:59best like UX from a mobile perspective,
22:02but that page ranks for like a thousand
22:04keywords for every pillar page. It's
22:06kind of insane. Um, and so yeah, if uh
22:09yeah, basically you would want your H1
22:11to be the broad keyword, like let's just
22:13say liquidation stores New York, and
22:14your H2s would be the the city specific
22:18keywords like liquidation store
22:19Brooklyn. Um, and yeah, you don't need
22:23an individual page with an H1 targeting
22:27liquidation source Brooklyn to to rank
22:29really high for that. I uh all of my
22:32rankings are like page one and those are
22:34like Yeah, that's how I I basically
22:36structure it.
22:37>> That's amazing. I'm a bit shocked to
22:39hear that that is doing so well. Why
22:41wouldn't you I'm just asking to play
22:43devil's advocate. I'm guessing someone's
22:44thinking this as they're driving in
22:45their car right now. Now that that page
22:47is doing so well, why wouldn't you go
22:49back in and add individual pages, i.e.
22:52three layers deep for phrase liquidation
22:55store and then hyperlink from this
22:57massive listical that's doing so well to
23:00it.
23:01>> Um like why don't I just go a layer
23:03deeper.
23:04>> Uh and I think that
23:07>> probably the true answer is it's work
23:10that I don't want to do.
23:11>> Well, that's fair boring.
23:12>> You said the way in like I I'm in coast
23:14mode right now and so that's a fair
23:16answer but you know would that help do
23:18you think? Yeah. Um, I think that it may
23:24help, but I think the nature of my niche
23:27is that
23:29people just want like there's so few in
23:32this thrifting niche, right? It it it
23:34targets a subset of thrift stores, like
23:36a specific brand of thrift stores.
23:38They're very like few and far in
23:39between. So, people just want to see how
23:41many there are in a state. And I think
23:43that's kind of what I got from social
23:45listening looking on Reddit. Uh a lot of
23:47the social social like media posts were,
23:50"Hey, are there any of these stores in
23:52California?" And I was like, "Oh, that's
23:54interesting." I mean, there were some in
23:55specific cities, but yeah, I think I
23:58don't think it would help that much um
24:00for that particular niche. Uh, but I
24:03think a lot of other niches, the one
24:04that I'm building now, it's going to be
24:06a pillar page um, directory as well, but
24:08I'm going to go four layers deep with
24:11individual city pages as my H1 rather
24:15than doing state pages because it's it's
24:17too broad. There's too many stores. I
24:19want to drill down a little bit deeper.
24:20And I think in this particular niche, it
24:22makes a lot more sense because there's
24:24like 12,000
24:25um, yeah, 12,000 of these businesses.
24:29for reference that the thrifting niche
24:31where I'm kind of describing this pillar
24:32page structure, there's only like 130
24:34stores. So, it's okay to like keep it
24:37broad and keep it statewide in my
24:38opinion.
24:39>> Okay. And that's great clarity. Like
24:41getting into the weeds on that was was
24:42fun because I think what you're
24:44ultimately what you said at the
24:45beginning is there's many different ways
24:46to do it. And it sounds like there's
24:48some strategy to which one might be the
24:49best and there's also going back to what
24:51you said at the beginning like
24:52optimizing for where you're at and what
24:54kind of directory you want to build and
24:56how much involvement you want to have.
24:58It kind of all plays into the the
24:59approach you take for it. Is there any
25:01technology that helps with this? Whether
25:03it's um a a theme builder, whether
25:06you're using AI, like any any any sort
25:08of uh gains on the technological side of
25:10things you can share with people.
25:12>> Yeah. Um I just use so kind of like my
25:16tech stack for WordPress for the longest
25:18time uh was of course WordPress. Um and
25:22I used Out Scraper, which is just one of
25:24many scrapers people can use. And I do
25:26scrape Google Maps. Some people might be
25:28hearing this and be like, "That's
25:29against toos." And I would say you're
25:32not wrong, but um it's a risk factor
25:36that everyone has to take into
25:37consideration. And there's a lot of
25:38scrapers out there. Um and uh after
25:42that, you want to have some if you want
25:45some automation for the data enrichment.
25:48Uh you know, I candidly did create a
25:51software for this. Uh it's called
25:53Enrich. directory and essentially it
25:55just allows you to input a keyword and
25:58it'll search for that keyword in Google
26:00reviews for that specific business and
26:03so you can like prompt it and ask like
26:05hey is this a liquidation store just
26:06just want to confirm just look at do a
26:08sentiment analysis on the reviews and
26:10just tell me um okay well does this
26:12liquidation store have like good prices
26:14like what do people think about the
26:15prices um so that's like one way you can
26:18kind of automate it otherwise it's
26:19pretty manual WordPress kept it really
26:22simple uh element Mentor Pro. Um,
26:25really, really simple. Uh, you can use a
26:28plugin called GeoDirectory if you want a
26:30programmatic SEO build. Uh, if you want
26:33to publish like 4,000 listings in the
26:35same day, Geodire is pretty solid at
26:38that. There's a few of them, but that's
26:40my favorite. Um, and then, yeah, there
26:44are some extra plugins like WPL import.
26:46I like that. Um, some people build
26:49directories with uh, Jet Engine. don't
26:52really prefer that, but it works. And
26:54then, yeah, that's pretty much it. In
26:56Hrefs, that's kind of like where I go
26:59and execute my backlink strategy. I
27:02always use hrefs to look at my
27:04competitor's backlinks and then reach
27:05out to them and say, "Hey, do you want
27:07to do like can you just swap out my link
27:10for this competitor's link on this
27:13article? I'll pay you like 50 bucks."
27:15And
27:17that's why HR is important. So, that's
27:19pretty much it. I've been spending a lot
27:20more time in cloud code and cursor. I've
27:23actually been like super obsessed with
27:24it for the last 3 weeks to four weeks.
27:26Um, and I'm building this pillar page
27:28directory on cloud code. Um, so that's
27:31exciting. But yeah, that's kind of my
27:34tech stack historically.
27:35>> Okay. I love it. Thank you for sharing
27:36all that. I mean, everybody can go if
27:38they want to get involved in this, they
27:40can kind of go, you know, research all
27:41the different things you just
27:42referenced. But that's awesome. Um, one
27:44more question before we move into
27:45backlinks because that's Don't worry,
27:47folks. We're going to get to that.
27:50um on page. What are there any other
27:52on-page work that needs to be done?
27:53You've kind of talked about the assembly
27:54process, how you're building this
27:56structurally, what goes on a pillar
27:58post, what goes on a listical, what the
28:00H1, the H2s are, how how many deep like
28:03we we've got our mind around the the
28:05structure of of today's directories for
28:07you, but like what any other onpage work
28:09that needs to get done? Um, I think
28:11besides the fundamentals, um, I would
28:14say that I've kind of been doing a 180
28:17on my takes with blogs because for a
28:19long time I didn't see the use case for
28:21blogs, especially after the core update.
28:23But I'm seeing a lot more um, blogs get
28:27referenced by LLMs. And so I think
28:29that's a solid use case, especially for
28:31a lead genen directory because you need
28:33all the traffic that you can get. Uh, I
28:35recently talked to the CEO of Sam's
28:37List, which is a direct read to help
28:39high netw worth individuals find
28:41financial advisors and accountants and
28:44you name it. And she wrote a really
28:46simple blog. Um, and she's starting to
28:49see like one to three people a day come
28:52to her website just from that from chat
28:54GBT. Um, which is huge for her, right?
28:57Because one customer can be tens of
28:59thousands of dollars. Um, and so I would
29:03say that is something that I've kind of
29:05changed my mind around. Um, and I think
29:07like more structured data schema. Um,
29:11that's stuff that I I guess is like I
29:15guess it's kind of on page but not. Um,
29:17but yeah, I would say that's something
29:20that I've been looking into more again
29:21for the same reasons. Uh, LLMs tend to
29:24like more structured pages, but I I'm
29:26sure your most of your audience already
29:28knows that.
29:29>> Yes. Well, that's a whole another topic
29:31altogether. But yes, um I was going to
29:33ask about the blog, you know, and if it
29:34if you bother with it or if you don't.
29:36So, uh well, okay, let's talk about link
29:40building. I'll start with a high level
29:42question like is it mandatory? Do you
29:44think it's mandatory to get the kind of
29:47traffic you're getting? Again, I'm
29:49trying to think of someone who's
29:50listening to all this but is reticent to
29:53dive into the nitty-gritty of link
29:54building is thinking like, "Hey, is this
29:57one of those things where I can build it
29:58and eventually they'll come anyways?"
30:00How important do you think link building
30:02is to the success of your directories
30:04and could they be successful? Maybe not
30:06to the same degree without it.
30:09>> It's hard to give a bling answer because
30:12it depends on the niche. And I'll give
30:14you an example. I've won my third
30:16directory that I built, fresh domain, no
30:18back links, uh really low competition
30:21niche. Um it hit 10,000 or is still at
30:2410,000 monthly visitors with no
30:26backlinks. It's just how it is. I
30:28literally just created a pillar page
30:30directory and no one seems to be really
30:33be talking about them. Um and that was
30:37yeah, that's just how it is. With the
30:39first directory, I definitely needed to
30:41build links. I had a competitor that was
30:43getting a 100,000 monthly visitors. I
30:46needed to take them down. Um,
30:49and all I'll say is it took me one link
30:51insert from a super relevant article uh
30:56and website with real traffic. Um,
30:59basically exactly like the same topic as
31:02my directory. And it took one backlink
31:04to overtake that 100,000
31:08um searches a month uh competitor. So I
31:12get it like I don't want to do backlink.
31:14I don't want to do link building either.
31:16It's costly in some um some cases time
31:19consuming. It's really boring. People
31:20don't respond if you do cold outreach. I
31:22get it. But sometimes if you build in
31:25the right niche a you don't need
31:27backlinks or if you do you don't even
31:30need that many. You just need the
31:32quality ones and a few of them at that.
31:34So it doesn't have to be this gargantuan
31:37task that you see. Um, that's that's in
31:40my opinion. Of course, you need
31:42backlinks for any like any lead genen
31:45play where you're gonna have more
31:47competition. So, it's super important.
31:50Um, but again, I don't really care about
31:52any other backlinks than like hyper
31:54niche specific ones with real traffic.
31:56Um, I've bought niche edits. I've spent
31:58thousands of dollars on niche edits.
32:00They are hollow in my opinion. High DR,
32:04no real traffic, kind of buried deep
32:07into the website. Yeah, you can
32:09customize your anchor text, but come on.
32:11Like, it's just a high DR website.
32:14That's it. That DR in my opinion is kind
32:16of a vanity metric, and I I maybe that's
32:18a hot take, but I uh yeah, I've seen
32:21proof with my own directory builds. Um,
32:23so yeah, that's what I'll say.
32:24>> Well, good. We we've we've talked to the
32:26person who maybe doesn't want to build
32:27links, but now let's talk to the person
32:28who does want to build links, and you've
32:30kind of already waited into it a little
32:31bit. what types of links work well uh
32:35for directories specifically that you
32:37found, you know, and kind of we'd love
32:40to hear anything that you just don't
32:42think is working or that is maybe not as
32:44effective as something else. A lot of
32:46people again listening are going to be
32:49interested in this topic. They they did
32:51uh use link building to drive uh overall
32:54authority for maybe their website
32:56prehcu. Maybe they're still doing it
32:58with a local business, with a SAS
33:00product, with ecom, but they have that
33:01that experience. And so, let's get into
33:03some of the, you know, more advanced or
33:05more detailed side of link blending that
33:06you've seen work well for for
33:08directories.
33:09>> Yeah, directories are weird because the
33:12nature of the keywords you're going to
33:13be ranking for are basically aligned
33:15with local SEO. It's like liquidation
33:17store in New York, right? So, maybe like
33:20a typical person learning SEO might be
33:22like, okay, I'm just going to build
33:24citations, but that's not what I do. Uh,
33:27in fact, those are not the types of
33:29links that I've seen success from. It's
33:31like I don't know what you call like
33:32national SEO, but essentially articles,
33:35blogs. I I never know what to call it.
33:37>> I know. I'm like there's local SEO and
33:38there's
33:39>> there's like
33:40>> just other Yeah. Yeah. There's just SEO.
33:43Um, that other is where I target. So,
33:46like exactly kind of what I mentioned,
33:48just articles, blogs, mom and pop, small
33:51publishers, that kind of stuff. Um,
33:54those are like priority number one. as
33:56long as it's niche specific and there's
33:58real traffic, I'm down for that. I don't
34:01like, yes, I take DR into consideration,
34:03but it's like third or fourth priority
34:05when I'm going about it. Um, I would say
34:07badges is a unique um kind of backlink
34:11proposition for directories. Um, not a
34:13lot of people can just create badges for
34:15like best liquidation store in Seattle,
34:18like hey, we just wanted to award you
34:20this. Here's an HTM HTML snippet you can
34:22embed on your website. you can't pull
34:24that off in a lot of situations, but
34:25directories can pretty easily. Um, and
34:28so that's something that I've uh played
34:30around with and it works well. I think
34:32that the reason I mentioned this second
34:34is because it lacks that anchor text
34:37that would help you a little bit. It's
34:39just an image backlink, which is great.
34:42Um, but I still think the first option
34:46is better if you can. Um, and yeah, uh,
34:51essentially that's that's kind of it.
34:54And I kind of forgot about your your
34:56question if I'm being honest. Like if
34:58there was a specific backlink question.
35:00>> No, I was I was saying what what does
35:02work. You know, we kind of talked about
35:03and maybe let me ask a follow-up
35:05question on that to to just also ask
35:07about what you were just sharing. You
35:09talked about niche edits not really
35:10working all that well. You talked about
35:12citations not really working well, but
35:14you have kind of said link insertions
35:16have been valuable. Um, draw the line
35:19between those. What's the difference
35:20between a link insertion and a niche
35:22edit for a directory site?
35:24>> Yeah, so for me, a niche edit is
35:26basically when you go to a link building
35:28agency and you pay like a hundred bucks.
35:31They will access their own network of
35:35small publishers and then
35:38hide put your link somewhere on a page.
35:40You don't know the page. You don't even
35:42know the referring domain. You don't
35:44know anything. You kind of just fill out
35:45the sheet that says like, "Yeah, like
35:47this is a like I would like preferably
35:49to be in the liquidation space, the the
35:52secondhand goods space." But you don't
35:54know what you're going to get. You're
35:55kind of just gambling kind of. With a
35:58link insert, you are going into hrefs,
36:01identifying your main targets, and then
36:05analyzing their back links, looking at,
36:07okay, well, this backlink is from Frey's
36:12blog. It's exactly to do with
36:14liquidation stores, and he has a ton of
36:18articles around this and links to my
36:19competitor. I'm just going to reach out
36:21to them. I know exactly the DR, the tra
36:23the real traffic coming in, um the the
36:26topic, how many um you know, outgoing
36:29links there are or um you know, I can I
36:31can look at so much more data and make
36:34the decision myself as an SEO whether or
36:38not I would want want that. And so um
36:41the difference in like the $100 spent
36:43with a niche edit and a link insert is
36:45night and day. Um and that's what I like
36:48about link inserts. Um, and then the
36:51badges I think you mentioned is kind of
36:53in its own separate world. That's Yeah.
36:56>> Yeah. Which that's awesome by the way.
36:57That's a great tip because, you know, if
37:00you're a small business and you're like,
37:02I just got an award as the best such and
37:04such. And you know, like even if you're
37:07not really sure what it is, I'm sure a
37:09lot of people are like, I'd be happy to
37:10put that on my site, feature that so
37:12that people, my customers, my potential
37:14customers can see that. And um so that's
37:17a great that's a great tip there. From a
37:19lot of what you're talking about with
37:20links that work well, it seems like
37:22relevancy is important. And again, I'm
37:24making a broadstroke statement. It seems
37:26like getting links from um from from
37:30domains that have relevance to your your
37:33niche is is really important. Talked
37:35about DR not necessarily being a big
37:37deal to you. So maybe the power side of
37:39things isn't quite as important. Is is
37:41that a safe assessment? Like if
37:42somebody's building a directory, is that
37:44relevance component to the links they're
37:45trying to build really important?
37:47>> I think so. I think that's the main
37:49factor that I look for is is the page
37:52that's is my referring page super
37:54relevant or at least like pretty
37:56relevant to my niche and is there real
37:58traffic going to the page? Um I think
38:01like user signals in general are
38:03increasingly important um just in the
38:05last few years and to yeah just to
38:09legitimize you as a actual authority um
38:13subject matter expert. So that's why the
38:16real traffic is important to me. I want
38:18people flowing in from my referring page
38:20to my website engaging clicking around.
38:22I want those um and then yeah niche
38:25relevance. I think that's super
38:27important. Um Dr. Yeah, I think it's a
38:30vanity metric. I have a directory with
38:32in Hrefs it's a 0.1dr
38:36and it's the 10,000 um uh it's the one
38:40one getting 10,000 monthly visitors and
38:43um yeah fresh domain I think at this
38:45point naturally I've gotten like one or
38:46two back links for that uh directory but
38:49it's still a 01 uh a 0.1 DR which is the
38:53lowest possible DR that you can get
38:55scored on hrefs and it's still ranking
38:58page one rank one for the the keyword
39:00That's amazing. Yeah. Um, so let's talk
39:04about monetization if we can for a bit.
39:06And you talked I I I believe you kind of
39:09differentiated between there's display
39:10ads and then there's lead genen which um
39:14there's also or part of that which is
39:17just charging for premium listings. And
39:19I think that maybe we should we separate
39:21that as a different model as well. um
39:24you know talk about which ones you've
39:27tried, which ones you've landed on, and
39:29maybe why you've landed on a certain
39:31monetization method over a different
39:33one.
39:34>> Yeah, so the ones that I've tried in
39:37order of like length of experience um
39:40are definitely display ads first. I have
39:42a lot of experience with that. Um
39:44digital products would be second and any
39:47kind of lead genen would be third. And
39:49that's kind of the next chapter that I'm
39:50walking into right now. I'm building a
39:52luxury uh porta-potty directory right
39:54now. Um but yeah, just to kind of yeah
39:59the way monetization is tricky because
40:02you want to identify the earning
40:04potential in the very beginning of niche
40:06selection, but the truth is without
40:09traffic you have no monetization and
40:11once you have traffic you're rich with
40:13problems around monetization. Um, but
40:16the basic idea is that with any lead
40:18genen, I do try to find any service with
40:22relatively high ticket. Like a luxury
40:23portaotty can be rented out for $2,000 a
40:26day for weddings, outdoor festivals, you
40:29you name it. So reasonably, I think like
40:32following Alex Hermosy's mindset of
40:34like, well, what could you offer that
40:36would be dumb for them not to take? I
40:38think I could sell a lead for $300
40:42per lead potentially if it's a really
40:44warm lead. Filled out, you know, a
40:47request quote form. I have all of their
40:49information around a wedding they need a
40:51luxury portaotty for. I could probably
40:53sell that because that might be able to
40:54turn into like a $2,000
40:57maybe even more, right? If there's
40:58multiple days they're renting for uh
41:00customer. So yeah, like you want high
41:03ticket um tons of like landscaping
41:07niches, of course, finance, healthcare,
41:09legal niches. These are leads that are
41:12potentially worth like $20,000 plus. Um,
41:17and quick funny story, I actually
41:18created a really crappy version of a
41:20portaotty directory. It still has Lauram
41:22Ipsum on the front page and I just did
41:25it as a test but uh a few weeks ago I
41:28haven't worked on that website in almost
41:30you know like a year. I got the New
41:33Mexico State Fair as a lead and they
41:35said hey we need 109 porta potties like
41:38three luxury toilet uh you know porta
41:40potties. It was a $20,000 lead from a
41:42website directory that had Lauraum on
41:45the front page which is like kind of
41:47stupid but um yeah that's the general
41:49gist of that. Of course, like one
41:52mistake that I made, really, really poor
41:54decision-making is I built a plasma
41:56donation directory. It's still up and
41:58running. It's just monetizing with
42:00Mediavine. But I didn't take into
42:02account how easy it is to actually reach
42:04out to these plasma donation owners. Uh
42:06if you look at the landscape with plasma
42:08donation, there's like 15 of them in the
42:11US. All of them are doing like 100
42:13million plus uh in revenue. It's really
42:16hard to like get in contact with them.
42:17there's like yeah it's just something I
42:21didn't consider. So that's something I
42:22would definitely take into account if
42:24you're building lead genen is how easy
42:25is it to actually start building that
42:27relationship
42:28>> and um eventually lead to like a lead
42:30genen play. Um, that's pretty much it
42:33for lead genen. I would say like the
42:35main points display ads are so easy.
42:38It's just like get the traffic, apply to
42:41Mediaine. Mediaine has Mediaine grow
42:44now. So you can you can start applying
42:46at like 3 to 5,000 monthly visitors and
42:48you'll get in and then that's pretty
42:50much it. It's easy as that. I think the
42:54display ad concept is going to make a
42:55lot of sense for most people listening,
42:57especially if you go after those niches
42:59that have high traffic potential. That
43:02makes a ton of sense. Do you ever layer
43:05on the premium listing or other types of
43:08services along with display ads? Um, is
43:11that something that you've seen work
43:13well or just that you've seen other
43:14people do?
43:15>> Oh, yeah. I see it all the time. Uh, I
43:18don't know if it's the best depending on
43:20the niche. If it's a niche where you
43:23inherently have like a high trust
43:26situation, like ads on a finance
43:28directory would be kind of like I don't
43:30know, it just gives you the wrong kind
43:32of impression in my opinion. Uh, but
43:34that's just me. Um, but I do see it all
43:37the time. Um, the plasma donation site
43:40for a moment was like for a month I was
43:43making money with lead generation. I
43:45think I only made like 500 or,000 bucks
43:47that month. Um, but yeah, I had ads
43:51throughout that whole period. I had
43:53Mediavine uh going and it didn't seem to
43:56be that consequential, so it was fine.
44:00I would say try to keep it separate
44:02mainly because if you have a really high
44:04potential lead genen niche, usually you
44:08won't have enough search volume to make
44:11it worth it for display ads. That's why
44:13I like to keep it super segmented. Like
44:15if I'm going for display ads, I'm going
44:17for as much volume, as high, you know,
44:20search traffic as I can. Uh I don't want
44:23to be like thinking about the lead genen
44:25side. It's like I don't know, it's too
44:27confusing for me personally. There's a
44:30lot of depth with one side and like it's
44:32really shallow on the other. Right.
44:35>> Um, let me bring this kind of all the
44:37way full circle and ask you a really
44:39high level question for someone who's
44:42been listening to this and wants to go
44:43out and start their first directory. Um,
44:46they do their research based on some of
44:47the strategies you talked about. They
44:49find their niche. They, you know, listen
44:52to what you recommended in terms of tech
44:54stack. They've got the site all built
44:56out. They've got their long-term plans
44:58for link building. What's their what's
45:00what's their first 30 days look like?
45:02like just from a high level, what's your
45:03first 30 days once you've got a
45:04directory live? You've obviously got
45:06your link building tasks that you want
45:08to get started on, but what what what
45:10what are you doing for those first 30
45:11days? Give people like a playbook. Yeah.
45:14Um I think I could go into the tactics,
45:17but I think at this point I've spoken to
45:19enough people where my recommendation
45:23seems slow, but it's in my opinion the
45:25fastest way, which is you just want to
45:26like learn enough to build and then
45:29learn more and then build. And the
45:31reason I say that is because you're kind
45:32of learning like five to 10 different
45:34skills with building directories. It's
45:36like keyword research, you know, you
45:38have to do a lot of social listening.
45:40Um, you have to do, you know, website
45:42scraping, cleaning, enriching, that's a
45:44whole thing. Website design,
45:46monetization, backing out. There's so
45:48many skills that you're trying to
45:50tackle. So, if you try to just like
45:53build this very lucrative lead genen
45:55directory off the bat and say, "Okay,
45:57like I have my idea. I'm going to go
45:58straight to the website and like kind of
46:00just have high expectations going in.
46:03I've seen a lot of people fail at that.
46:05So, what I would recommend is actually
46:07just create a really simple directory.
46:09If you're just starting out, maybe you
46:11have some base level SEO skills, just
46:13prove yourself that it works. like that
46:15momentum when when you start to see you
46:17rank for location based queries and
46:20keywords starting to see a little
46:22trickle of traffic that's going to
46:25inspire you because I see so many bad
46:28websites on the at the uh bottom of the
46:31first page and yeah they're they're
46:33terrible. I mean my portaotty directory
46:35it's ranking for a ton of keywords on
46:38the first page and has Laura Mipsum. So
46:40like just prove it to yourself that you
46:42can do it. um learn just enough so it's
46:45not overwhelming and just start
46:46building. If I knew zero like about
46:49WordPress or anything, I would
46:50definitely go straight to Claude code
46:52and cursor. Um it's really intimidating.
46:56I'm a non-coder. It was extremely
46:57intimidating to get started and I didn't
46:59do that. I didn't learn anything for 6
47:02months and I did recently and it's so
47:05worth it. It's so fun. Um so that's kind
47:08of what I would recommend. uh definitely
47:13spend the most time around ideiation. I
47:16talked to John Rush um and Tim start
47:19kind of recently and we all agreed that
47:22thinking about the idea is the most
47:24timeconuming part because there's so
47:25many like small micro decisions around
47:27monetization potential. Oh, can I reach
47:29out these people? What's my backlink
47:31strategy? like all these things that you
47:32want to ask yourself before spending
47:35money scraping data and like buying
47:38softwares and building a site. Uh those
47:40small questions are worth it in my
47:42opinion. And then the second most
47:43timeconuming part is probably the data
47:46enrichment.
47:46>> Mh.
47:47>> And then everything else like you can do
47:49relatively quickly in my opinion. Uh so
47:51that's what I would probably recommend.
47:53Um I don't know that it's not 30 days
47:57but
47:58>> I mean I'll just give you a number.
47:59Yeah, just to give you just a a podcast
48:02host question really. It doesn't have to
48:04be 30 days, but
48:05>> um hey before you go like what where
48:08where are you spending most of your
48:09time? Because again folks like a lot of
48:12what
48:13Fre's been talking about is very passive
48:16after that initial launch after that
48:17initial you know time as what you said
48:19at the outset like hey put in call it a
48:21100 hours and then watch it grow and
48:24then you can put as much or as little
48:25time as you want to into it. So, what
48:28are you spending your day doing? What's
48:29uh what's what what what are you working
48:31on?
48:32>> Yeah. Um right now it's probably a mix
48:35of four things. I have two ongoing
48:37directory projects. One's the luxury
48:39portaotty directory. That's a really big
48:41project. It's going to be an automated
48:43lead genen directory kind of like Yelp
48:44and Care.com. Um and that's a big one.
48:48I'm using Cloud Code for that. I'm also
48:50building a boring evergreen pillar page
48:53directory also in Cloud Code. I have a
48:55community of people, a free community
48:58and a private paid community for anyone
49:00building directories. Um, so I'm always
49:03in there every day just talking to
49:04people, sharing what I know. And then
49:06YouTube has been a wild and random
49:09occurrence in the last eight months.
49:11I've been very lucky and grateful, but
49:14it's where I spend a lot of my time
49:15every week just sharing what I know and
49:18trying to communicate uh what I'm
49:20learning to non-coders and beginners and
49:22anyone trying to learn. Awesome. Where
49:25can people kind of connect with you or
49:26follow along with what you're doing? Um
49:28I know that the uh directory community
49:30you talked about uh is is one good
49:32place, but like where would you where
49:33would you guide people if they wanted to
49:35connect with you?
49:36>> Yeah, I think um well YouTube doesn't
49:39really Yeah, I would say Twitter or X is
49:42the best place. I'm really just on that
49:44social media platform. And then if you
49:46do want to pop into the free community,
49:49there's I think 2,600 people in there.
49:51It's just shipperdirectory.com.
49:53You can access it through there. Uh same
49:55thing if you want a little bit more uh
49:58kind of commitment and serious you want
50:01to be around serious voters
50:02shipperdirectory.com. Uh that's where
50:04you can learn everything you need to
50:05know.
50:07>> Frey, this has been such a fun
50:08interview. I mean I feel like you
50:10probably are going to inspire a lot of
50:11people. Uh, you know, obviously this is
50:14something that is going to kind of
50:16scratch an itch for a lot of people who
50:18are looking for a place to put a lot of
50:20their talents, a lot of the, you know,
50:22things that they've done historically
50:23very well. You talked about how, hey,
50:25the online world is and will forever be
50:27constantly changing, but in many ways,
50:29this is a blast from the past. It's
50:31something that's been around for a long,
50:32long time and is still working really,
50:33really well, provided that you, you
50:35know, do some of the things that that
50:37you talked about here. So, I just can't
50:39thank you enough. I've got like a page
50:40or two of notes. probably listen to this
50:41one again if I find the time to start a
50:43directory myself. Um, thanks so much for
50:46coming on. I really appreciate it.
50:47>> I appreciate it, Jared. It was fun going
50:49to uh the weeds and uh yeah, appreciate
50:51this.
50:53>> All right, until we talk again. Thanks.
50:54>> All right, thanks Jared.
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