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How Bloom Built the Playbook Every Founder Will Copy in 2026 — Transcript

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0:00Your reputation is [ __ ] everything.
0:02If you're not all in, you're going to be
0:03beat by the person who's all in.
0:05>> That's Greg, co-founder of Bloom, a
0:07brand that's on track to do half a
0:09billion dollars in sales this year. I
0:11never reinvent the wheel. We take a
0:12wheel that's already existing and we
0:14make it 10 times better. The white space
0:16wasn't making a greens powder. The white
0:18space was distribution, accessibility,
0:20palletability. So, how can you look at a
0:23category that is saturated but find the
0:25white space within it? In this episode,
0:27Greg breaks down the systems behind 15
0:30billion views, 50,000 plus retail doors,
0:32and how he built a Tik Tok army with his
0:34wife, his mom, and his best friend from
0:36[music] high school. We have someone who
0:38quit their job and made $50,000 in like
0:40two weeks selling our clear protein
0:41powder on Tik Tok shop. My [music]
0:42biggest growth hack to any entrepreneur
0:44today is just
0:55guys. 180 million bootstrapped [music]
0:58on pace for 500 million this year. Built
1:00with his wife, his mom, his best friend
1:03growing up, the American dream. Stay to
1:04the end. We're going to give you the
1:05full playbook. Um, less than 5% of
1:09marketing spend is on meta, 85 plus% on
1:12influencer. You probably have like the
1:14largest in-house influencer marketing
1:16program in CPG. Let's just start super
1:19macro. Give people context on how and
1:22why we got to going allin on influencer.
1:25It's funny because so the the brand
1:27obviously started for my wife's
1:29Instagram page. So, we very much
1:31understood like the influence that a
1:32content creator could have, aka an
1:34influencer. And once we started to get
1:37some traction with our third product
1:39launch or fourth, which was our greens
1:41powder, we knew the way we had to get
1:43that in front of as many eyes as
1:44possible was through influencer
1:46marketing. I didn't know how to build
1:47out an influencer program. But what I
1:49did know was my best friend Leo at the
1:51time was working sales on biotech Wall
1:54Street, working like a crazy a crazy
1:58boiler room, just like thousands of
1:59outbounds a day.
2:00>> Amazing movie boiler room. I'm going to
2:01pop that one up.
2:02>> Amazing. Amazing movie. So he's in the
2:04boiler room. He's doing thousands of
2:06outbounds a day. And he's always telling
2:07me these war stories from this sales
2:09room that he's operating. And one day
2:10we, you know, we get together. We're in
2:12Manhattan. And we're like, you know,
2:13that boiler room that you're just doing
2:15thousands of outbounds a day. Can we
2:17just copy and paste that and build that
2:18within the walls of Bloom and just build
2:20the craziest influencer program that's
2:22ever existed. And we knew that the
2:24product stuck, right? Like when people
2:25tried the product, they wanted to try it
2:26again and they wanted to make content
2:27with it. So like all we had to do was
2:29figure out the outbound. So Leo ended up
2:32joining the team and we just scaled that
2:33program to the moon and now we have over
2:3515 billion views across Tik Tok and
2:37Instagram and it has been like the bread
2:39and butter rinse and repeat. We have not
2:41fixed what is not broken and have just
2:43ran the same strategy for 7 years.
2:46>> Shout out Uncle Leo here in the
2:47audience. Love it. So he obviously came
2:49in and probably dissected the
2:51infrastructure, the numbers, the
2:52metrics. Let's just like double tap on
2:54that. I'm sure there's a lot of people
2:55out there that hear about Tik Tok shop
2:57and affiliate and such. What does the
2:59inside of this influencer program look
3:01like? Like how much outreach? What does
3:03the the unit economics look like on it?
3:05Are you paying people? Are you giving
3:06them an affiliate?
3:07>> On a basic level, it starts with the
3:09scouter, which could just be literally a
3:1020-year-old intern. By the way, the
3:12entire team is under 30 years old. They
3:14are the Bloom girl. Your influencer
3:16team, if not your whole brand and as
3:18much of your team as possible, should
3:19look like your avatar, right? So, all of
3:22our team, there's like six guys on the
3:24Bloom team and like 94 women. Like, we
3:26are by far the minority. And that's
3:27because like I want our team members to
3:30look like the bloom girl and that has
3:32always been what works for us. Then from
3:34the scouting team, which is generally
3:36just interns, you go up to just
3:37influencer relationship managers and
3:39then from there you have the director of
3:41the whole team who started as an intern
3:43at Bloom and now she's just like leading
3:45this whole ship. Shout out to Jillian.
3:47She's a beast. And so Jillian's at the
3:49top and then there's kind of these
3:50account managers to manage the
3:52relationships and then you just have at
3:54the lowest level just people just
3:55scouting
3:56>> 247 on the internet on Instagram on Tik
3:58Tok. I think this girl would resonate
4:00with our brand.
4:00>> And then some fun little tips that
4:01anyone at home could use is use VPNs.
4:04>> Put your iPads, put your iPhones around
4:06the country, get different algorithms.
4:08What you don't want is the same
4:1019-year-old Italian girl who lives in LA
4:13who shops at Iwan. her her algorithm as
4:16she's scouting will look exactly the
4:18same as every other girl in that room
4:20who is scouting. So, you want people
4:21with different algorithms going on,
4:23right? Cuz you want to find the the the
4:25mom in Kansas. You want to find the
4:27police woman in North Carolina. You want
4:30to make sure you're scouting them as
4:31well. And the
4:32>> bar right there. That's a little cheat
4:33code right there.
4:34>> That's a huge cheat code.
4:35>> I'm big on the reset suggested content.
4:38If I ever feel like my algorithm is kind
4:39of going off topic, I I I reset it.
4:41>> I didn't even know you could do that, so
4:42thank you for that.
4:43>> Yeah. So, so you're saying literally
4:46you're completely agnostic to location.
4:48You just want it in random locations and
4:50then you go by location.
4:51>> Yeah. And then you just change it up
4:52when you need a new algorithm. You just
4:54change your location using the VPN.
4:56>> Love that. For sure.
4:57>> Probably should have on like a VPN
4:58sponsor for that one. That's that's a
4:59good one. Um, how big is that that team?
5:01What's the size of this influencer team?
5:03>> The team has fluctuated depending on how
5:05much scouting we feel like we need to do
5:06and how much we're trying to scale the
5:08program. Right now, the program is not
5:09scaling too much. we're in a very
5:11healthy place, but you know, it could
5:12range from 15 to 25 people in-house and
5:15we've never tapped into an agency
5:17whatsoever. And this was also like the
5:18early days of Tik Toks when like content
5:21creators weren't just like all signed to
5:23UTA or like whatever the big agencies
5:25were. Like we were talking directly to
5:26them. So we knew their birthdays. We
5:28sent gifts on Mother's Day. We knew when
5:30they were having a tough day and we had
5:32real relationships and we still do with
5:34our content creators. And then going
5:35back to the contract, it's just all
5:37reverse engineered around CPM, right?
5:39So, if you guys run meta ads at home and
5:41you know what your CPM is, let's say
5:43it's $20 per thousand views that you
5:45get. CPM is cost per thousand views, we
5:48just you the best way to start is just
5:50cut that CPM in half that you're getting
5:51on Meta. And that should be your goal
5:53for the influencer program. And if you
5:55scale it as robust and aggressively as
5:58we have, I mean, we've had CPMs that are
6:00below $2 for months at a time, which is
6:02like insane marketing dollars, right?
6:04Insane efficiency. So, if you think
6:05about the 15 billion plus views that
6:07we've now received, which is dozens of
6:09Super Bowl ads worth of views, I mean
6:11maybe a hundred Super Bowl ads worth of
6:12views. We we definitely are not paying
6:14$7 million for a Super Bowl ad for those
6:16amount of views. You know what I mean?
6:18>> So, in short, understand and know
6:20[clears throat] your baseline CPM. Most
6:22people are spending most of their
6:22dollars on meta. You cut it in half and
6:25then you want to win either obviously
6:26lower than that or even just better than
6:27meta. So, it's just a new source. Yeah.
6:29>> And then what are you doing? You're just
6:30giving people a [ __ ] ton of free product
6:32and some basic guidelines. sometimes
6:34depending on how big that influencer is.
6:35But I would say ve going back to the
6:37guidelines, that's huge. Like your
6:39content is at the discretion of the
6:41algorithm, right? So if you give them
6:43some lame ass product brief because
6:44you're the suit in the boardroom sending
6:46somebody exactly what you want them to
6:47say, you might as well just do that
6:49yourself, homie. You know what I'm
6:50saying? Like you are hiring that content
6:52creator because that is what they do for
6:53a living. They are the best at what they
6:55do. You should give them as much
6:56creative control as possible with that
6:58product. So, when we send somebody a
7:00crisp apple energy drink, just
7:02incorporate in your content like you
7:03always would. Explain exactly how you
7:05would to your community how you're using
7:07that product and why you like it. And
7:09that's what we want them to do. So,
7:10there's a ton of creative freedom with
7:12our influencer program. And if you don't
7:14give them that freedom, the video will
7:16not get views and you will never have a
7:17viral hit.
7:18>> Well, there's something that you're
7:19saying but you're not saying right now,
7:21which is absolutely crazy. I did this in
7:23the beginning of Iconic and people
7:24thought I was crazy. I mean, are you
7:26doing attribute? There's no attribution.
7:27>> There's no attribution. We've never done
7:28an affiliate code. We've never done a
7:30coupon code. And the reason for that is
7:31cuz we never we never optimized for
7:33Shopify. So, we're an omni channel
7:35operation.
7:36>> You're just optimizing for top of the
7:37funnel. You just want as many people as
7:39possible to know where you are cuz they
7:40can transact almost anywhere cuz you're
7:42in 50,000 70,000 doors.
7:43>> Every CMO, every head of marketing,
7:45every marketer knows that half of their
7:47marketing isn't working. They just don't
7:48know which half. That is very true for
7:50this program.
7:51>> That is very true for this program. Our
7:53attribution is a complete shitow. any
7:55suit CMO would hate this program. The,
7:58you know, the easiest way to do it is
7:59obviously correlating. When a video
8:01starts to get some views, you you look
8:03at your Amazon search traffic. That
8:04would be like the easiest direct
8:06relationship that you could find. But
8:07that's not always the case. If you're
8:08trying to run an influencer program for
8:10an exclusive skew at Walmart, right? You
8:12you don't know like the attribution
8:14window. People know jargon if I say
8:16attribution window. people. You don't
8:18know if your attribution window is 7
8:20days, but people only go to Walmart once
8:22every two weeks and they saw the video
8:24two weeks ago and then they convert two
8:25weeks later at Walmart. You don't know
8:27it's because it happened from that video
8:28they saw two weeks ago. You get what I'm
8:30saying?
8:30>> Yeah. I feel like a lot of people are
8:32just over obsessed over the attribution
8:33and this is just general I've talked
8:34about before just common sense and
8:36intuition. It's working for Greg at the
8:38highest of all high scales. I mean
8:40you're talking about again hundreds of
8:42millions of dollars. 85% is going to
8:44influencer. And when you say 85% that is
8:46in what? Free product, free payouts. And
8:48>> free product, shipping product, shipping
8:50cans is [ __ ] expensive, right? Like
8:52this is like a 10 pound package when
8:53you're selling sending a 12-pack. But it
8:55also is sometimes, you know, six figure
8:56payouts. But these are pre-negotiated
8:59numbers before the before we even have
9:01them post. And so we can just look at I
9:03mean the simplest way would be look at
9:05their last 10 videos see what the
9:06average views are and then you could
9:08figure out what your comfortability is
9:10for what you're willing to pay per CPM
9:12right and if you think that half of
9:13their following is in India and your
9:15product's only available in America then
9:17you know cut that CPM in half like you
9:19need to make sure that the person seeing
9:20that video is your avatar. If I if I
9:23know I'm selling a product only for
9:24women and I know 25% of that person's
9:26[clears throat] followings are males,
9:27then I will just cut that that CPM 25%
9:30to make sure I'm only paying for the
9:31women, right?
9:32>> What are those other things to double
9:33click on? So half CPM, you win even if
9:36it's a bit over. Obviously, you want to
9:38diversify against meta. Looking at the
9:40trailing 10 videos to see the blended
9:42views to back into the CPM asking, I
9:44guess for their geography, you want them
9:45not to be [clears throat]
9:47>> 90% in [ __ ]
9:48>> Well, yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of
9:50our retailers are in Bumble [ __ ] So, we
9:52love Bumble [ __ ] But, but I mean, you
9:55were even telling me the other day you
9:56found Bloom Energy in like the middle of
9:57nowhere, right?
9:58>> Middle of Nora is like in a random
9:59convenience store in Santa Barbara.
10:00>> Okay.
10:01>> Bumble [ __ ] I'm talking about Bumble
10:02[laughter] [ __ ] like like Sagal, Africa
10:04or something.
10:04>> You will find us
10:05>> in Sagal. I don't know. I don't even I
10:07don't think you're in Sagal.
10:08>> We're We're pretty dominant in just in
10:09just domestic right now in just the US,
10:11but we are definitely launching
10:12internationally. We're on Dr. Pepper
10:14trucks.
10:14>> So, like we're anywhere you can kind of
10:17find a Dr. Pepper at this point. It's
10:18it's it's pretty incredible and that's
10:20why it's 50,000 doors. But I would say
10:21the last thing is like if as you are
10:23trying to launch an influencer program,
10:25if you're at the early stages of this,
10:27you want to find the influencers that
10:29you think your avatar is already
10:30following, right? So don't just like
10:32sign any woman like find the niche that
10:34you're talking to and then find the the
10:36influencer that that niche is already
10:38following and then you can slowly get
10:40wider as you start to dominate that
10:41niche.
10:42>> And where are we at as far as biggest
10:44bang for your buck from a size
10:46perspective? 5,000, 20,000, 100,000.
10:48>> You you should have a diverse portfolio,
10:50but it's a game that works at scale. And
10:52I would say that if you only have a
10:53limited budget, I would I would strictly
10:55stick with like, I don't know, 5 to
10:5750,000 followers.
10:57>> So, it's a little S&P S&P game. Just
10:59sprinkle in all different sizes.
11:00>> Yeah. Shoot from the hip.
11:01>> And what about platform? I I would
11:02imagine you guys are very Instagram
11:04heavy.
11:04>> Majority Tik Tok by far.
11:06>> Wow.
11:07>> Yeah.
11:08>> By far.
11:08>> And what's second? Instagram.
11:10>> Yes. And then that's pretty much it. We
11:11don't really do anything on Facebook. We
11:13don't really do anything on Snapchat. We
11:14don't really do anything at YouTube on
11:15this point. And we don't we don't do a
11:17ton of podcasts at this point, and I can
11:18get into why in a second.
11:20>> Yeah. Hope you guys are enjoying the
11:21episode. We put together a free PDF on
11:24Greg's playbook on how he built the
11:26largest in-house influencer program and
11:28CPG, his 60,000 plus retail door
11:31strategy, his validity marketing
11:33strategy, how he built a Tik Tok army,
11:36and the one partnership that unlocked a
11:393X in his business. Links in the top of
11:41the description below. Enjoy the rest of
11:43the episode. I guess for me, these
11:45people on the Tik Tok side, I mean, I
11:47feel like everyone is programmed now.
11:48It's like the the bar keeps raising for
11:51what percent brands are giving from an
11:52affiliate perspective.
11:53>> Yeah.
11:54>> People do people like this better
11:55because they're like, "All I do is just
11:57care about views." Not not so much
11:58sales. It's more just views and CPMs.
12:00They like this better.
12:01>> Tik Tok shop is a very different game
12:04than Tik Tok. And I would say Tik Tok
12:06Shop is an incremental game to Tik Tok.
12:08So, we still very much have the built
12:10out robust influencer program that has
12:11no affiliate links, no coupon codes and
12:14is just like we're doing a normal
12:15content creator relationship in that
12:17scenario. And then we also are building
12:19out a pretty a pretty robust Tik Tok
12:21shop affiliate program amongst the Tik
12:23Tok shop universe, which is one of
12:26leadership's top priorities right now
12:27for sure. So, where are you guys going
12:29under the notion that you guys are so
12:30heavy on influencer? You mentioned
12:32podcast, Tik Tok shop, like where else
12:34are you going? What does the future look
12:35like for Bloom from a paid perspective?
12:39I have made all of the mistakes of shiny
12:41object syndrome. I mean, I've spent $3
12:44million on one month on on on on, you
12:46know, traditional media ads and got
12:50probably three sales from them. Like, we
12:52this is how we plan on moving at the
12:54speed of culture and being part of
12:56culture forever is just I see I see this
12:58not changing anytime soon. Do not fix
13:01what's not broken.
13:02>> Yeah.
13:03>> Interesting. So, don't break what's not
13:05broken. I I like that. Looking back on
13:06what you've done, obviously you've done
13:08a lot right. What are some mistakes that
13:10you guys have made, whether it be
13:11influencer or acquisition?
13:12>> I think just casting the wider net. So
13:14if we keep the net narrow, I went back
13:16to changing the algorithms and making
13:18sure that we're seeing everybody in the
13:19country. The whole point of Bloom is
13:22being accessible to everyone in America,
13:23right? That's why we are intentionally
13:25in the we're in as many stores as
13:27possible. We are not strictly in the
13:29ultra premium retailers of the world.
13:31and we need to make sure that we are
13:33signing and working with all of America.
13:35And so making sure that if we're hiring
13:38a team that's only coming out of UCLA
13:40and they're in our Venice Beach
13:41headquarters, they can be biased towards
13:44the LA influencer. And so making sure
13:47that they are aware of who the Bloom
13:49consumer is nationally and that we are
13:51working with that influencer as well
13:53would be the biggest mistake that we
13:54could avoid. And then of course also
13:55like I mean this goes way back before
13:57even Bloom existed. Like we grew Mari's
14:00following through meme page marketing.
14:02That was one of the biggest growth
14:04engines for growing Mari's following was
14:06we would buy meme pa meme ads and show
14:09her journey, her fitness journey and say
14:11go follow Mari Llewellyn, right? And the
14:14amount of times I went all in on a meme
14:16ad to go try to blast her page with
14:19followers and then it ended up just
14:20being 10,000 people from India that I
14:22could not sell a product to and then you
14:24know we were eating we were eating tuna
14:26fish that night. Let me tell you, like
14:27that was that was a bad night.
14:29>> We're going to get into the origin story
14:30for sure.
14:31>> Yeah, that's that's big origin story.
14:32But like we I I can't even I can't even
14:34say how many mistakes we had made even
14:37before Bloom existed through influencer
14:39marketing that now we're able to connect
14:41the dots and have this this optimized
14:44system today. Right? So this is eight
14:46years running and you make a mistake and
14:47you make sure that the next day you
14:49start over from zero and you continue to
14:51move forward. You don't just like give
14:52up on the program overall. Right? And
14:53that's why it works best at scale. I
14:55mean to your credit though and for
14:57people out there listening I mean just
14:59like with a lot of things like you can
15:00say for from a retail perspective you
15:02know if you want to stay cool and
15:03elevated you start boutique and then you
15:05kind of go downstream. As far as like an
15:06ICP perspective when I think of Bloom I
15:09do think of like California and Texas. I
15:12think that that's a good starting point
15:14cuz I do think those are the influencers
15:16that influence the other influencers.
15:17>> Well said. So, it's a mistake, but at
15:19the same time, it's like you're start
15:20you're starting at the top of the
15:21pyramid, and now you need to go win in
15:24we're back to bumble [ __ ] the bumble
15:25[ __ ] of the United States. I'm not going
15:27to call it any random state, but let's
15:28just say like more in the middle.
15:30>> Fly over states.
15:30>> A flyover state. So, it's just just more
15:32in the middle. So, it's a that's a a
15:34mistake, but I wouldn't I wouldn't
15:35necessarily say it's a mistake. This all
15:38has to do with CAC LTV and retention.
15:42I'd love to know like what are some of
15:44those like retention strategies that you
15:45guys are doing kind of looking at the
15:47end customer whether it be these like
15:50mixer bottles these blender bottles like
15:52the bogos like what are some of the
15:53things that you guys do that are that
15:54are optimizing for retention I mean
15:56optimizing for retention I think every
15:58problem in your business is probably a
16:00product problem so if you're having an
16:01acquisition problem it means that your
16:03pro your product is not appealing to
16:05anybody and they don't want to buy it
16:06right if you're having a retention
16:07problem it means they finally bought
16:08your product and then now they don't
16:09want to keep on buying it but I would
16:11say one of The biggest mistakes we made
16:14early on in Bloom, just because of Mari
16:16and I's age at the time, was going after
16:18a very young consumer. So, if you're
16:20selling ritualistic supplements that
16:22you're supposed to take every day for
16:23long periods of time, or you're trying
16:25to create habits with people, generally
16:27a younger consumer is going to have a
16:29tougher time having a ritual, right?
16:31Like, I didn't have a morning routine
16:32when I was 20 years old. So when we
16:35first started to really scale the Greens
16:38business, because of our age, most of
16:39our followers and most of the people we
16:41were converting were way younger and
16:43they just had a lower retention rate as
16:45a result. So like that was not as
16:47quality of a business as it is today
16:49because it was just a younger consumer
16:50that like was not going to repeat and
16:52was they don't even subscribe to things.
16:53Why would a young person subscribe to
16:55something like I didn't subscribe to
16:56[ __ ] until I was like 30. So that would
16:58be the biggest issue for retention. I
17:00would also say that's where community
17:02comes in. And what separates just
17:04selling a product versus building a
17:06brand is people are like people are
17:09rooting for your company and your
17:10community or your brand as if they're
17:12rooting for a sports team, right? And
17:14it's like people have followed along
17:15with Mari and I for 10 years now. So two
17:18years before Bloom and then now seven,
17:20eight years with Bloom where it's like
17:21they've seen this whole journey and
17:22we're throwing in real life events
17:24around the country. We're sending out
17:26free product to our top customers all
17:27the time. They're seeing these displays
17:29in Walmart and they realize it's not
17:31just like Coca-Cola's display. It's like
17:32Greg and Mari's display. And I think
17:34that they like ride that wave with us
17:36and they feel like they have they have
17:38stock in this company and they're they
17:39want to continue to support it. And the
17:42the feeling's mutual. Like we want to
17:44support our community back. And it's
17:45been an amazing journey having people
17:47kind of make Bloom a part of their life.
17:49And now you see a Bloom trademark in so
17:51many different aisles of the stores
17:53because we've been able to create a
17:54platform brand with supplements, with
17:57soda, with energy drinks. I think Bloom
17:59Baby could exist eventually, right? Like
18:01wherever our consumer's journey is, very
18:03much correlating to my wife's journey.
18:05Obviously, we have a four-month old son
18:06at home. And I just think I just think
18:08taking them along for this ride and
18:10moving at the speed of culture, right?
18:12It's like female energy drinks weren't
18:14really even like a thing four years ago.
18:16And then now because some people have
18:18helped or some companies have helped
18:19pave the way, seeing this this this
18:22cultural change and making sure Bloom's
18:25part of that with female energy is just
18:27the best way to keep the consumer coming
18:29back. But to be transparent, like we
18:31have parts of our portfolio that were
18:33doing over $und00 million 2, three years
18:34ago, and today they're doing under $75
18:36million. Today, like they're cutting in
18:38half years later. Bloom has net grown,
18:41but we've been able to follow with what
18:43consumers wants and needs are to keep on
18:46coming back into the Bloom portfolio,
18:48not necessarily the first product they
18:49joined Bloom with.
18:51>> Yeah, I think you guys have done a great
18:52job of building brand versus product and
18:56listening to to your community. I want
18:58to double click on community and events
18:59because I just think everything ladders
19:01back up to just brand. Like the fact
19:03that you guys are doing all this
19:04influencer and not meta, it's paid off
19:06where people actually are really
19:07resonating with you on like an authentic
19:09organic level.
19:10>> I guess with that being said, like do
19:11you guys think you could launch anything
19:13and it'll work cuz people are just
19:14following you? Like if you guys launch a
19:15car tomorrow, do you guys think it can
19:16work? I think I think you need to
19:19continue to level up with the size of
19:21TAM that you're going after. [snorts]
19:22So, we started with the most niche
19:24product that you could possibly sell. It
19:26probably had a $10 million ceiling.
19:27female pre-workout with people who were
19:30sensitive to caffeine and had anxiety
19:32and the women were lifting weights,
19:33which in 2019 was like this is like as
19:35niche as it gets, right? The largest
19:37that product could have ever gotten was
19:39$10 million. And then you have to
19:40recognize you look in the mirror and
19:41you're like, "Okay, this is a good
19:42business, but I'm ready for the next
19:44challenge." And my community is asking
19:45me for other products. Then we made
19:47recovery powders. Then we made protein
19:48powders. Then we made the greens powder.
19:50And then we went into energy drinks. So
19:52we were slowly going after larger and
19:53larger TAMs, larger and larger
19:56challenges and
19:59I see no reason why we will not continue
20:01to do that. Do I think the end result is
20:02us creating a vehicle? No. But I think
20:05that there's like more aisles of the top
20:07retailers in the country. Like I said,
20:09Bloom Baby where Bloom could absolutely
20:12play in like other huge categories. I
20:14don't know what the hell is bigger than
20:15energy drinks other than maybe soda with
20:17our balloon pop. But like,
20:19>> yeah, I don't know what the next
20:21challenge even could be. I can't fathom
20:22it, but like there's a lot of runway
20:24left for this energy drink.
20:25>> Yeah, I want to keep double clicking on
20:27marketing. I completely agree. You guys
20:28have continuously reinvented yourself,
20:30guys. We're going to get into it. The
20:31fact that you're like having products
20:33that are doing like 100 million plus,
20:34and I'm not going to say you're like
20:35aborting them, but you're definitely rep
20:37prioritizing your focus on new stuff
20:39with bigger TAMs. So you guys are
20:41ultimately going after bigger and bigger
20:43TAMs in conjunction with listening to
20:46your community.
20:46>> They're asking for it.
20:47>> Yeah.
20:48>> Like they they if you actually grow a
20:50community before we even had Bloom, our
20:52community asked us to make supplements
20:53because we were selling workout guides
20:55and they said, "I need supplements to
20:56take with these workout guides." So
20:58Bloom was born. And then eventually once
21:00we had some more credibility like once
21:01we got to the greens powder, people were
21:03like, "We really love every supplement
21:04that you're making. I'm looking for a
21:06better for you energy drink. Can you
21:07guys please make one?" And so we just
21:09did, right? And so that was it's just us
21:12listening to our community and also of
21:13course listening to like what Mari and I
21:16want as a consumer as well. What are our
21:18pain points? Like we can't find a better
21:19for you energy drink that is like as
21:21palatable as what we would like it to
21:22be. So we made Bloom Energy. But yeah, I
21:26think like the community will tell you
21:28where to go, which is like why having
21:30that that nucleus of a brand is so
21:33crucial to building something that's
21:34multi-deade proof.
21:36>> Yeah. I mean, obviously you can listen
21:38via email, post-purchase survey in the
21:40comments, but I do think Inerson events
21:41has been big for you guys. What What's
21:43the thesis on events? Are you guys doing
21:45a bunch of small events? Are you go guys
21:47going massive? Do you want to do a Super
21:48Bowl commercial? What is the actual like
21:50event strategy?
21:51>> I would rather fewer big events than
21:56many small events. Like I would I don't
21:58want to go have a thousand lemonade
21:59sales, right? I want to have like once a
22:01quarter something badass take over a
22:04building in Soho. It's open to the whole
22:06public. I'm sick of this VIP [ __ ] for
22:08only the top influencers in LA. I want
22:10our actual consumers coming to this
22:12event, lining up down the street, and to
22:13be able to experience everything for
22:15free. So, like, we just took over a
22:16retro diner in in Austin, Texas for an
22:19entire weekend. You could literally book
22:20tables on like reservation.com. Like, it
22:22was literally open to the public. Every
22:24meal was free and everything was just
22:25bloomed out and you were getting root
22:27beer floats. We were launching our
22:28better for you root beer there and you
22:30could get Bloom, you know, root beer
22:31floats, Bloom cheeseburgers, Bloom
22:33pancakes with root beer syrup and it's
22:35like every meal is free for just a whole
22:37weekend. Our whole community could
22:38participate. And what I will say is that
22:41your in real life event could be so
22:45kick-ass, but if it doesn't capture good
22:47digital content, it's probably useless.
22:50If you have a lame event that does make
22:53good digital content, that's a win in my
22:56book. So somehow you need to find the
22:58happy medium of the two. But it's like
23:00if you're going to have a thousand, even
23:015,000 people or maybe even just 500
23:03people experience your event.
23:05>> If they have the best time, I'm happy to
23:07give that back to the community. But you
23:09need to make sure the event is reverse
23:11engineered for digital content because
23:13that's going to be creatives that you
23:15can use for literally years to come.
23:17>> Yeah. So we we we had a we've had events
23:19three years ago in New York or even in
23:22London where like tons of our community
23:24were there, but we had so much content
23:26captured. We're still deploying some of
23:28that content today. So like that's
23:30that's what some of our favorite photo
23:32shoots happen at these events.
23:33>> Yeah. I mean it's wild that you have a
23:35thousand people online. You need to get
23:38>> video B-roll of that content. And then
23:39you go back to that same city, you use
23:41that that actual B-roll. My favorite is,
23:43and I can go back to like comment
23:44sections and keyboard warriors and how
23:46they've almost ruined my business many
23:47times, but my favorite thing to do at
23:49events is sample unreleased products,
23:52especially for the energy drink. If we
23:53can have like 10 flavors that we're
23:55thinking about, and I even think like,
23:57you know, it's never the ones that I
23:59think are going to perform well, it will
24:00end up being like a blueberry lemonade
24:02that I never thought would perform well.
24:03Sounds pretty good.
24:03>> But yeah, it's coming out in a couple
24:05months. And then [laughter] so but if
24:07you can get like real life reactions,
24:09especially if it's not necessarily a
24:11Bloom community member and it's just
24:12someone on the streets of Soho, you get
24:14a raw reaction of which of these 10
24:16flavors is your favorite, that is the
24:18best way to get consumer data. I [ __ ]
24:20hate syndicated data about, you know, if
24:23I'm looking at Target and Walmart sales
24:25and they can tell me who it is and why
24:27they purchased it or like post-purchase
24:29surveys I've had a ton of bad luck with.
24:31The worst story with Bloom was we when
24:33we were a protein business because once
24:35COVID took off, we hopped on COVID and
24:37we went crazy with protein powders for
24:40baking at home, right? And so, which
24:42goes back to just like you need to stay
24:43ready so you don't need to get ready,
24:44which I'll get into in a second, but
24:46having protein powders and then we would
24:48get 50 comments a day, let's say, about
24:51making a vegan protein powder. And so,
24:53this was a no-brainer. Our community is
24:55telling us to make vegan protein. And
24:57then we went all in. We order like, you
24:59know, a h 100,000 bags of this vegan
25:01protein. I think it was like lemonade,
25:03lemon shortcake flavor or something like
25:05that. And it was going to be a hit. The
25:06community told us exactly what to make.
25:08And then we launched the vegan protein.
25:10And the 50 comments a day, we sold about
25:1250 bags
25:13>> because it was the 50 vegans that were
25:15following Bloom that were leaving
25:17comments every day. And I just call that
25:19the the loud minority is the keyboard
25:21warriors. I mean, as I'm sure you know,
25:22with your personal brand that you're
25:24building now, like that comment section,
25:26you don't even know if it's someone that
25:28even gives a [ __ ] about.
25:28>> You got to double click in and see if
25:29they have subs or where they're from
25:31because you could kind of go back and
25:32forth with what you just said. This is
25:34why the in person is so so valuable. I
25:36mean, you can even run as ads content of
25:40people actually trying it and getting
25:41that that organic reaction. But like
25:43>> understanding and knowing like you could
25:44have never known those 50 people that
25:46were commenting were vegan, but if
25:48you're talking to these people, you can
25:49actually get the context. And kind of
25:50going back to what you said on
25:51syndicated data for people out there
25:53listening something that's very very
25:54surprising to me is I think it was on
25:56the ran episode is I thought like from a
26:00conclusive evidence perspective you need
26:02like thousands and thousands of people.
26:04Dude, if you get 150 people at your
26:08event trying the blueberry lemonade and
26:12135 of them love it like that is enough
26:14evidence of obviously if you know who
26:16these people are and they're not some
26:17random person that's outside your ICP.
26:20That is enough to press the button. I'll
26:22take
26:22>> People don't realize how small it has to
26:24be to really get the evidence.
26:25>> I would take an N equals 50 of people
26:28walking around the street over more
26:31value than anything I can buy from some
26:33fancy syndicated data thing that I spend
26:3550 grand for. For sure.
26:37>> That's wild. And yeah, I think just to
26:39repin on what you said for people out
26:40there listening, I mean it's the same
26:43exact same exact thing from podcast.
26:45we've said it before is so many people
26:47focus on like doing these podcasts and
26:48then they like forget about like the
26:51content at the end and the distribution
26:53at the end. If you have a really good
26:54product and nobody hears about it, then
26:56it's it's done. Same thing with an
26:57event. If you have a really good event
26:58and you don't have any event to capture
26:59to then use later, then it's it's just
27:01those however many people that had a
27:02good time there. You don't get all of
27:03that kind of kind of long tail. So,
27:06that's some great advice.
27:07>> Also, last bit there is that's why our
27:09team is the Bloom Girl. So essentially,
27:11I have 96 people who can sample energy
27:13drinks and can sample products and tell
27:15me what they're consuming, what they
27:16just found in their favorite grocery
27:18store and why we should make it. That's
27:19our consumer and they work in our office
27:21and I can I can I can just look into our
27:23like, you know, community cafeteria
27:25fridge or our team cafeteria or fridge
27:27and just be like, "Wait, what's this new
27:28product that four people just brought in
27:30today? Tell me about it. Let's order a
27:31whole bunch on Amazon and we're all
27:32going to try it." That has been the
27:34biggest incubation lab that exists for
27:37Bloom is just our team and what they're
27:39eating and consuming or or or drinking
27:41because that's our consumer. We hire the
27:44Bloom girl.
27:45>> Yeah, it's wild to think just that to
27:47tie on the event side. We're not saying
27:48that these are not good events, guys.
27:50They're great events,
27:51>> but it seems as though that's like
27:52that's like last on the pecking order.
27:54It's really just about the content
27:55distribution and then finding out if
27:56your ICP likes the product. for people
27:59out there. I think that that's a great
28:00piece of advice to give people is bring
28:02product that's not out, find your ICP,
28:05ask 50 100 people and then not order
28:08vegan protein like YouTube content.
28:11>> If you make an event that makes really
28:12good content, it's going to be a really
28:13good event like you know that that's
28:16that's a that's a direct correlation in
28:18my book.
28:19>> And from a a cost structure on that, I
28:21mean all the things that we talked about
28:22and then you're just looking at just
28:23like top of the funnel awareness of of
28:25what it is.
28:26>> Yeah. Yeah. And then that's like of
28:27course going to be the content that not
28:28only everybody who visits posts on their
28:30page and we'll make sure we bring some
28:31big influencers to the event as well,
28:33but it's also we take a lot of pride in
28:36our owned profiles. So, you know, Bloom
28:39on Instagram, Bloom on Tik Tok, even
28:41like, you know, our founders content of
28:42course like my wife or whoever it may be
28:44is posting like crazy about these about
28:46these events. And so, like that content
28:48can get millions of views. And so, we
28:51take and that's like a very valuable
28:52million of like people we really want to
28:54make sure see it. So that goes a long
28:56way as well.
28:57>> Yeah. And as you build your own
28:58channels, then you can start featuring
29:00people and doing co-branded posts. Then
29:01you have value against for sure
29:03obviously the people that you're
29:04partnering with. I want to tie up on the
29:06marketing side for anybody out there
29:08listening. What would you say is kind of
29:11the single most important shift that
29:13people need to understand and see that's
29:14happening in marketing? What are you
29:17seeing on your side?
29:19I would say I mentioned earlier moving
29:21at the speed of culture. There have been
29:23four monumental cultural interventions
29:25that have happened in just the last six
29:27years that I can that I can think of.
29:28Right? The first was co and I mentioned
29:30how we hopped on that and started to
29:31sell a ton of protein for people baking
29:33at home. Then Tik Tok was launched or
29:35Tik Tok started to really get some
29:37traction. Our team hopped on that so
29:39fast. Then I mean GLP1's was like
29:42[ __ ] crazy seeing how much just like
29:44consumer trends and pallets have changed
29:46and what people are actually buying at
29:49Walmarts and Targets and on Amazon
29:50because of this like pharmaceutical
29:52intervention that is GLP1s is crazy. And
29:54then of course the most recent is Tik
29:56Tok Shop. And so Tik Tok and Tik Tok
29:59Shop are two very different things. and
30:01trying to balance the two algorithms and
30:04master both of them. Any brand that can
30:07pull that off in 2026 going into 2027
30:10will be the brand that can win omni
30:12channel. It's going to be the brand that
30:13can win not just Tik Tok shop sales but
30:15their Shopify, Amazon, and whatever
30:17retail doors they're in. Like that is
30:19the omni channel playbook right there is
30:20mastering Tik Tok and Tik Tok shop as
30:23two separate things
30:24>> because you just think that you're
30:25getting the most bang for your buck as
30:27far as top of the funnel goes because
30:28everyone is knows that they can make
30:29money there on the affiliate side.
30:30>> The affiliate thing is like awesome. I
30:32was on a Discord call yesterday with I
30:34think like 150 or 200 of our top
30:36affiliates and like they're just they're
30:38all quitting their nineto- fives and if
30:40they haven't that's their goal with
30:41joining our affiliate program. They're
30:43quitting their nineto- fives and they're
30:44doing this full-time. And we have
30:46someone who just made like a a a normal
30:49person who just made who quit their job
30:50and made $50,000 in like two weeks
30:53selling our clear protein powder on Tik
30:54Tok shop. Like it's crazy. I think I
30:56think it's the coolest thing about it is
30:58it's the first time our community can
31:01really like monetarily experience these
31:03wins with us. So it's like now our Bloom
31:06consumers also our Bloom salesperson.
31:08It's almost turned us into this like
31:09massive sales force and marketing force
31:11where like everyone can just like
31:13experience this growth with us. And
31:15because we're such an omni channel
31:16operation and 50,000 doors outside of,
31:19you know, our digital channels, we can
31:21really lean in heavy to how much we're
31:23compensating these people and how much
31:25we're compensating our our our content
31:27creators and affiliates because that
31:30channel isn't necessarily like what's
31:31keeping the lights on, right? Like we're
31:33we're allowing that halo to bring lift
31:36elsewhere. So when we're crushing on Tik
31:38Tok shop, we see the Tik Tok shop sales
31:40more than 30% of those going over to
31:42Amazon, going over to Target, going over
31:44to Walmart. So we're we're at this huge
31:46advantage where even though we're not
31:48these like crazy ecom, Tik Tok shop
31:50growth hackers, we can lean in so heavy
31:52on just how much we're incentivizing our
31:54creators because we know it's going to
31:56affect the whole omni channel operation.
31:58>> Yeah, cuz you have evida elsewhere. I
31:59mean, you guys are going to absolutely
32:01smash cuz when I think of like,
32:04>> you know, these new playbooks where
32:05people are just running it up so fast.
32:07Like Hudson from Comfort, this guy's
32:08done like three in three or four years,
32:09like 29 years old,
32:10>> like like a billion dollars.
32:12>> He doesn't have the hedge in retail. So,
32:14I think I can't think,
32:17>> correct me if I'm wrong, I can't think
32:18of any like CPG brands that are
32:21>> probably in even 20,000 plus doors
32:24outside of Rahal with David Protein
32:26actually, that are running it up on this
32:27Tik Tok shop. So, I feel like that you
32:29guys have an enormous opportunity here
32:30to to win on both sides and get the
32:32bleed over.
32:33>> The best part is is that most of my
32:34competitors who do have that amount of
32:36doors, they're the legacy corporations.
32:39Cola is not on Tik Tok shop. Pepsi is
32:41not on Tik Tok shop. You know, Mountain
32:43Dew is not on Tik Tok shop. So, it's
32:45like I am selling soda. Red Bull is
32:46definitely not on Tik Tok shop and I'm
32:48their competitor with an energy drink.
32:49And so it's like that's where the young
32:52brands like us can really take some
32:54market share fast because they're
32:56probably still figuring out like when
32:58they want to launch it and we're a year
32:59in, you know. All right, guys. If you
33:01guys are lifting, you're not on Tik Tok
33:02shop, you have an advantage now before
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33:55>> I want to change gears a bit and we're
33:57going to talk about kind of this
33:58reinvention playbook cuz as we
34:00mentioned, you guys are scaling stuff up
34:02and then just kind of going to the next
34:03battle. Let's start with just this $1.36
34:06million day. For people out there,
34:08that's what they may or may not be doing
34:10in a year. Tell us about that day. What
34:12happened?
34:12>> Damn. All right. So, Mar and I were
34:14living in Brooklyn, New York. We had
34:15been there for about a year. We had just
34:18lost our one full-time employee, and we
34:22had had our greens powder sold out for
34:24quite a while. And, you know, maybe
34:26maybe 6 weeks.
34:27>> Contextually, this is your hero product.
34:28>> This was our hero product at the time.
34:30And it sold out quick, you know, a
34:31couple six weeks ago, but we didn't
34:33really think anything of it. It was
34:34going to be a big restock day. And we
34:36blasted our email list. We start the
34:39day. It's 9:00 a.m. We're in our first
34:40co-working space. We walk up the street
34:42from our from our, you know, two-bedroom
34:44apartment in Brooklyn. And we get to the
34:45co-working space. We send out the email
34:48blast. We send out the SMS blast. We
34:50post on Instagram. Mari posts all over
34:52her Instagram. And we just kind of
34:53waited. And so
34:56much traffic came to our Shopify
34:58relative to what we were used to at the
34:59time. And within 12 hours, we did $1.36
35:02million. And now obviously we do like
35:03over a million a day. But at the time,
35:05that was just like, what the [ __ ] just
35:07happened? And the worst part is is that
35:09we actually sold out that day. So, so I
35:11had to tell our consumers again like,
35:12"Sorry guys, we sold out." But I learned
35:14two I learned three things that that
35:16day. One, restock is the most powerful
35:18word in validity marketing, right? And
35:21everybody, especially with the digital
35:23brand, should be chasing validity with
35:25everything that they have because you
35:26are still just like the random Instagram
35:28brand. You are still like the random
35:30influencer that made a CPG product. And
35:32you need to find words of validity or or
35:34statements of validity that you can
35:36attach to your brand as often as
35:38possible to be associated with, you
35:39know, the big brands that people don't
35:41question buying.
35:42>> The marketing language we're talking
35:43about here,
35:44>> marketing language and like what what is
35:46more valid than we've had to restock
35:48this three times, right? Then people
35:50know, oh, somebody bought this so many
35:52times that it sold out three times and
35:54now it has restocked.
35:55>> I've seen this one hat brand I always
35:56get an Instagram story. like the hat
35:58that's been restocked 11 times and
36:00they're and they're doing like $2
36:01million a year on just that messaging.
36:03>> That's fire. Restock is the most
36:05powerful word in marketing. And I would
36:07say second is like that was the first
36:08day where we had to have some extreme
36:10discipline and say we're not going to
36:11touch this [ __ ] money. We're going to
36:13roll it back in. Right? And so that day
36:15we took that $1.36 million and we called
36:17our manufacturer and said, "We will take
36:18$1.36 million of more greens, please."
36:21Right? So we so we just rolled it back
36:23in. And so we just kind of continued
36:24snowballing. We were bootstrapped. we
36:26bootstrap to $180 million. And so that
36:28was the first day where it was like
36:30discipline is on the line. We're not
36:31going to go buy a BMW. We're not going
36:32to go buy an apartment. We're not going
36:34to do anything. We're just going to
36:35double down and get more product. And
36:37that was kind of what we did with Bloom
36:39for I mean up until today really. I mean
36:43we were profitable but cash flow wise
36:45like just to grow at that scale the
36:47money was always going back in. And so
36:49to have days like that and have the
36:51discipline to to roll everything back in
36:53and put your back up against the wall
36:55even when you have a place where you can
36:57take some comfort is just what makes
36:59entrepreneurship and what makes a brand
37:00growing this fast.
37:01>> Yeah, it's always good to have money in
37:03the bank. Maybe get a little 4% on tea
37:04bills. Yeah, you can get creative there.
37:06I'm not in the inventory game. So with
37:08you guys, it's I mean it's just it's a
37:09cash suck all the time. I want to double
37:11click back in that marketing copy
37:13because you said something there and
37:14it's something that I've seen you guys
37:16do a lot on the internet and you with
37:18your personal brand is not only like
37:19restock I'm sure there's a lot of other
37:21words but just like saying things that
37:24only you can say
37:26>> like there's so much stuff that like
37:28>> the more you grow people like don't want
37:30to flex but at the same time like you
37:33should flex and say the social proofing
37:35things that nobody else can actually
37:36say.
37:37>> Yeah. And and social proof is the best
37:38way to say it. I would say
37:41building in public is the only reason
37:43Bloom exists today. How are you going to
37:45separate yourself from the corporations?
37:46It's building in public. And if you're
37:48to me building in public is one founder
37:51forward. Like if you if you have too
37:53I've seen pride kill some of the best
37:55entrepreneurs. Put up that cringe
37:57content. Put up you in the manufacturer.
38:00Put up maybe occasionally show you
38:02having the bad day. don't cry on camera
38:03every [ __ ] day, but once a month
38:04maybe you can cry on camera. And and and
38:08building in public and sharing validity
38:10statements along the way, even if you
38:12have to use the word this is how many
38:14we've sold. And I think coming from
38:16especially the female content creator
38:19point of view, which was my wife,
38:20obviously talking about your business as
38:22if it was a business was like lowbrow in
38:252019 2020. It was like lame for Mari to
38:28run Facebook ads saying come follow my
38:30page. It was weird that she didn't want
38:33to just go sign the big Gym Shark deal
38:34and wanted to actually make her her own
38:36brand, right? And so, not allowing your
38:39pride to stop you from doing the the
38:42against society's
38:44suggestions way of life has been what
38:47has made Bloom. So, like examples of
38:49validity statements or announcements
38:51that we've made along the way is like
38:52we're number one on Amazon. I don't need
38:55to know anything else about that
38:56product. If you say something is number
38:57one on Amazon, I want to try it. If you
39:00want, I used to post if Target would
39:02send us an email about how much we
39:03crushed sales at the launch day. I would
39:05screenshot the email and post that on
39:07our Instagram and say, "We just crush
39:09Target." And if anyone is wondering
39:11about whether or not they want to try
39:13that product and they see that we're now
39:15the number one selling OTC item at
39:17Target and we and we beat [ __ ] flown
39:20even, then it's like, I should probably
39:21go try that product. So, like constantly
39:24posting validity statements will open so
39:26many doors for you and will just
39:29increase your chances of good luck,
39:31right? And I'm not talking I'm not just
39:32talking about getting more consumers.
39:35It's going to have retailers calling
39:36you. Wait, this product's crushing it in
39:38Target. I should probably also have this
39:39on my shelves. It's also going to have
39:41investors come to you. It's going to
39:42have people that just want that are
39:44talent acquisition. The only reason
39:45we've been able to attract such an
39:46incredible team is because we have shown
39:49everything that we're doing on a on a on
39:51a quantity and quality level through
39:54LinkedIn, through Instagram, through Tik
39:55Tok. And because of that, people are
39:56like, I want to go join this movement
39:58and join this team over in Austin, Texas
39:59at Bloom, right? So, it's like if we
40:02weren't building in public this whole
40:03time, I think Bloom would be 10% the
40:04size.
40:05>> I love that. I feel like I don't see it
40:07much outside of CPG. I see like Dom
40:09Ross, Shackleford with Breeze does it.
40:11Hudson has done a good job on the
40:12apparel side of flexing it, but not
40:14enough people. I mean, I'm just thinking
40:16in my head like seeing these Instagram
40:17stories where it's like a Microsoft
40:18Excel sheet and it has like the
40:19week-overweek percentage and you see
40:21like you against, you know, you against
40:23like a huge brand that everybody knows
40:26immediately it opens the curiosity gap
40:28>> and it allows you to never run those
40:30annoying ads of like comparing my greens
40:32to another greens, right? Or comparing
40:34my energy drink to another energy drink.
40:36I never talk about the competition. I
40:37talk about what I'm doing and that's all
40:39that I want to talk about. I don't want
40:40to shine light on anybody else. And I I
40:43do think this goes back to like because
40:45we were so much in the female space,
40:47this was like very odd in the female
40:50space because like people were too we're
40:52too
40:54we're too posh to talk about the
40:56business that they were scaling and this
40:57was difficult for my wife in the female
40:59space coming from England where like no
41:00one talks about how big their business
41:02is like it is not pro entrepreneurship
41:04over there. So for us to like break
41:06through this uncomfortable spot of
41:08talking about how much we have sold was
41:11was tough for us but it has paid
41:14dividends every single time we have made
41:16these announcements.
41:17>> Love that. So you guys are nine figures
41:20from a green's perspective and then kind
41:21of going back into that reinvention
41:22playbook. You then go on to energy and
41:25soda and all this other stuff. What are
41:27those moments for for people out there
41:29like those reflection moments like how
41:30and why and when like why did you know
41:32obviously you're saying you want to go
41:33after bigger Tams but what are these
41:35like key inflection moments that say hey
41:38we need to go on to the next thing
41:39>> the the biggest the biggest key into
41:42going into the next thing is I never
41:45reinvent the wheel. So with any product
41:47that we're going after first and
41:49foremost we do not reinvent the wheel.
41:51We take a wheel that's already existing
41:52and we make it 10 times better. So we
41:54are not the first greens powder. We are
41:56not the first energy drink. We are not
41:57the first better for you soda and I
41:59wouldn't have it any other way. And so
42:00when Bloom Greens was highly competing
42:03with AG1 at the time called Athletic
42:05Greens, if they signed Joe Rogan, if
42:07they signed, you know, a huge front page
42:10Wall Street Journal publication ad,
42:12whatever, I loved when they did that
42:14because all they were doing was rising
42:16the tide for all of these ships. They
42:18were advertising for Greens overall. And
42:20if there's one thing you don't want to
42:22do as a bootstrapped brand, it's spend
42:24your money on education. I don't want to
42:27explain to anybody what an energy drink
42:28is. That is a waste of my marketing
42:30dollars that I need to spend on
42:32explaining why mine is better. Right?
42:34And if I don't need to teach any There's
42:36already cup holders in the car, right?
42:38It energy drinks go in this can. I'm not
42:41going to
42:41>> literally that exact shape. It's
42:42>> of course I'm not going to put an energy
42:44drink in a soda can. I'm not going to
42:46put a soda in an energy drink can. I
42:47don't even notice that. But obviously,
42:49yeah, you're right.
42:49>> Of course. Right. No sense. And I'm not
42:51going to put an energy drink in a
42:52[ __ ] milk carton, even though that'd
42:53be hilarious. Like, I'm going to put it
42:55in an energy drink can.
42:56>> I do think there's white space for that.
42:58Little little innovation there.
42:59>> So, if there's one thing that I I think
43:01so many people get overwhelmed entering
43:03a saturated space, but you want a
43:05saturated space because that means so
43:07many brands have already spent the money
43:09educating people on what this product
43:10is.
43:11>> And then you can win on product, on
43:12brand, on anything and everything else.
43:15>> Yeah. And then I would just say like as
43:16as you're going after challenge, you
43:18know, one of the ways that you can just
43:20know you're meeting a savage
43:21entrepreneur is if you see them every
43:23six months, they're like completely
43:25different, right, than you than when you
43:27saw them and you're like, "What the [ __ ]
43:28happened to that guy? Did he get a
43:29haircut or something? Or is he just like
43:30acting completely different?" And it's
43:31because if you're truly leveling up a
43:34business and constantly going after
43:35bigger and bigger challenges, like
43:36you're going to see that in your
43:37self-development as well. and you are
43:39not even going to be able to recognize
43:41yourself in old photos because of where
43:43you were at as an entrepreneur and where
43:44you were at as a brand. And as we were
43:47going after bigger and bigger
43:48categories, it just kind of was like,
43:50why would I continue to give my mind
43:52share to something that has such a low
43:56ceiling? At the time, maybe it was booty
43:57bands, then it was pre-workout, then it
43:59was recovery powders when I can give all
44:01of it to something that is 10 times the
44:02size. If I never did that, this energy
44:05drink is obviously doing more in a day
44:07than the Booty Bands could have done in
44:08an entire year. But the Booty Bands
44:11business was comfortable. Like I could
44:12have just stopped.
44:13>> We're going to get into the booty bands.
44:14The booty bands business and the PDF
44:15gang. That that that was an interesting
44:18>> in that in that in that era of my life.
44:19I was talking to Pakistan on WhatsApp
44:21more than I was talking to anybody in
44:22America. Like
44:23>> WhatsApp and the kick app I used to be
44:25on a lot with those shot for shots on
44:27Instagram.
44:28>> Occasionally go on Telegram if things
44:29are getting crazy. If
44:30>> you're on Telegram, it's getting weird.
44:32[laughter] Signal Signal was out there
44:33for for a little bit. Dude, it's so
44:35crazy, man. I forgot who I talked about.
44:37That was Brian Garflow, CEO of Skull
44:38Candy. Great episode. Just the more and
44:40more mature that people get as
44:42entrepreneurs, like
44:44>> don't want to be first mover.
44:45>> Yeah. No.
44:46>> Don't want to be first mover.
44:47>> No. And and this word like why would you
44:49want to launch an energy drink? That's a
44:50saturated space. It's like that's
44:51exactly why I want to launch an energy
44:53drink. There's already a place for this
44:54in Target. There's already a category on
44:56Amazon. If you're creating a product and
44:58there's not already a category for it on
45:00Amazon, get ready to need to raise some
45:02[ __ ] money because you're going to
45:03need to go educate all of these people
45:05and 90% of them won't even want to buy
45:07your product.
45:08>> Yeah. With that, with that being said, I
45:09do think there's something to be said
45:10about if you do do that, you could have
45:12an asymmetric outcome and win huge, but
45:14the chances
45:15>> that's not my journey. Speaking for
45:17myself,
45:18>> you're layering on top of the
45:19pre-existing brand and you could just
45:20turn the lights on on a random category.
45:22>> What are those key things that you're
45:23looking at when you're looking at a new
45:25product? You mentioned TAM, you
45:26mentioned asking your community, is
45:27there anything else big that you guys
45:29look at?
45:29>> I would just say that that that the
45:30category stale, right? So, when we saw
45:33the energy drink space, we were like,
45:34this isn't cute. These products don't
45:36even taste that good. There hasn't been
45:38much change that has happened here in a
45:39while. And for some reason, a lot of
45:40these brands are still growing. Like the
45:42category overall was still growing
45:44rapidly. So, you don't want to enter a
45:45declining category and then go try to
45:47like revive the whole category yourself,
45:48right? So, energy and soda were to us
45:52stale.
45:52>> And these are like these are like 100
45:54billion plus market. They're massive.
45:56>> Oh my god, it's insane. And it's global.
45:58>> So it's like and because we were
46:01>> something that I have looked at now in
46:02my career in the last 3 years is what
46:04categories have a higher barrier to
46:06entry. So when we were launching just
46:08supplements, it felt like every month
46:10there was just another 19-year-old in a
46:12penthouse in Bickl, Miami who was
46:14somehow creating a a legitimate
46:16competitor to us on Amazon, right?
46:18Right. So, it's like, okay, if the the
46:21Bickl penthouse [ __ ] can create a
46:23competitor within 60 days,
46:24>> we're going to pop up a ton of brickl
46:27[laughter] [ __ ] with a bunch of
46:28lambos. Yeah.
46:28>> Yeah. With a bunch of with a bunch of
46:29rental. Yeah. [laughter]
46:32>> If they if they can make a competitor to
46:34this business that I take so much pride
46:35in, then did I really create something
46:37that special? And how can I now play
46:40chess instead of checkers and create
46:42strategic barriers to raise my barrier
46:44to entry? So, the first of course was
46:45just going into retail, right? So like I
46:47know that you can't just get into retail
46:49in 60 days. And so that started of
46:51course with Target, then Walmart, and
46:52then now we're at 50,000 doors. But the
46:54second was like signing massive
46:57strategic partnerships with some of the
46:58biggest companies in the world. So like
47:00with the energy drink, a very difficult
47:01high capital to start, you know, hugeQs,
47:05a supplement you might just need 20
47:06grand to start the whole project, right?
47:08But with the energy drink, like hugeQs,
47:10we're on Dr. Pepper trucks. We already
47:13had the retail relationships.
47:15it still worked with everything that we
47:17were doing in terms of influencer
47:18marketing and the relationships that we
47:19have with those retailers because of our
47:21nutrition business. So, it's like what
47:22synergies can we find that we can
47:25connect the dots to still creating
47:27something innovative but but allows us
47:31to use the strengths that we've built
47:32over the last decade. Right? So, I
47:34wouldn't go start you mentioned a car
47:36earlier. They don't I don't think they
47:37sell cars at Target, right? Like how can
47:39that and that's one of my strategic
47:40partnerships. So it's like how can I
47:42make sure that whatever my innovation is
47:44using the things that I have accumulated
47:47over the last 10 years.
47:48>> You should read this book Porter's five
47:50forces is on uh competitive analysis and
47:52I feel like we're starting to see more
47:54>> about production and supply chain and
47:57now what you're saying distribution like
47:59those are starting to become like the
48:01biggest modes possible. The fact that
48:03you own the mind share of the target
48:05buyer whoever it is you have the ability
48:07you're at least going to get a crack to
48:09bring in X new product.
48:10>> Yeah. And then I mean you want to talk
48:12about the target buyer like this wasn't
48:13at Target but one of the old school ways
48:15to get a buyer's attention at a retailer
48:17was just let's just say we're talking
48:19about Target they're in Minneapolis. You
48:21would buy the billboards in Minneapolis
48:23for your brand and then they would be
48:24like I'm seeing this brand everywhere.
48:25Like how I should probably call them up
48:27and try to get them in my store cuz you
48:28always want a scenario where the buyer's
48:29calling you and you're not calling the
48:31buyer cuz then you're going to have the
48:32leverage, right? And so how we did that
48:34in 2022 or 2023 was we would find the
48:38buyer and who they followed on Instagram
48:40and then we would sign all of those
48:42influencers and they'd be like, I'm
48:44seeing this product all over Instagram.
48:46Everyone I follow is talking about it.
48:48Can we have a meeting cuz I want to get
48:49this on my shelves. So that was always
48:51the best way to get somebody who's who
48:54is, you know, Illuminati to us, get
48:56their attention. I love that you said
48:58that cuz people on the Gretman episode,
48:59he talks about he's like a maniacal hawk
49:01on looking at his phone and looking at
49:03the tables on his restaurants. Like the
49:05reality is is like that happened and I'm
49:08going to take a wild guess here. You're
49:10not going to be like to that buyer like,
49:11"Oh, I did that on purpose." Like you
49:13never you don't say anything and you can
49:15create this massive strategic engine in
49:18and around them without talking to them
49:19and obviously they're going to come to
49:21you. You're not going to go them. More
49:22people need to do that.
49:23>> Yes. And more people need to realize
49:25that there are humans behind those
49:26desks. Like you you imagine these
49:29massive corporations and that you're
49:30just talking to some like, you know,
49:31binary computer making only objective
49:33decisions. But the reality is is they're
49:35making emotional decisions and they want
49:37to make a bet on you. And if they're
49:38seeing a brand crush it digitally, they
49:40want to be the person in the walls of
49:42that retailer that took the chance and
49:44brought in that digital brand and it was
49:46a huge success. So if you can find like
49:48the entrepreneur within these large
49:50corporations and figure out how to
49:51partner with that individual, that's the
49:54person when you're in a meeting room
49:55with 10 people at a large corporation,
49:56you're looking at them the whole time.
49:58>> Hyperfocused on that one human,
50:00>> that one entrepreneur that wants to make
50:01a name for themselves within the company
50:03and they will take the bet on you.
50:04>> Yeah. So for someone like you, someone
50:06that goes to the gym six times a week,
50:08sub 10% body fat, we can we can talk
50:10about some [laughter]
50:11>> stuff like that.
50:12>> Perhaps
50:12>> throughout this whole entire journey,
50:13you're bootstrapped. So you bootstrapped
50:15180 million, no outside capital.
50:17>> I'd love to give people context on why
50:21>> you chose that route and now what has
50:22been the payoffs. I want to get into the
50:24partnership after, but why did you guys
50:25not raise outside capital?
50:26>> I mean, you know, you you mentioned
50:28reading a book a second ago. I graduated
50:31college with a 24.
50:32>> I was 21 [laughter]
50:342.11
50:365 years University Delaware. I needed to
50:38get a certain score on the last test.
50:39>> That's first that's the lowest I've ever
50:41heard.
50:41>> But [laughter]
50:42aren't you curious? I'm so curious to
50:44like I would imagine that I can go back
50:46and get a 4.0 now because like when I
50:47focus on things obviously I'm when I
50:50focus I'm good.
50:51>> I'm curious. You think you could do
50:52good? Do you think you can get high
50:52grades?
50:53>> I think I could now. I think I I would
50:55like to think so. Yeah. Yeah. And I
50:57would and I would probably be not taking
50:58Adderall and I was taking a ton of
51:00Adderall for that 2.6.
51:01>> You want to [ __ ] around and go take a
51:02like a Harvard digital class with me? We
51:04should do that.
51:04>> I'm down to do [laughter] it's like two
51:06weeks like 2500 bucks. I'm down.
51:08>> And then we could get on our LinkedIn
51:09and then we could get a consulting gig.
51:10>> Amazing. [laughter] And then we could
51:12take a picture outside of Harvard after
51:14and then we can flex that as well.
51:15That's hilarious. I like that.
51:16>> So, I'm not an academic. My wife's not
51:19an academic. When we launched Bloom, she
51:20had dropped out of college at that
51:22point. She was working the front desk
51:23the opening shift at an Orange Theory
51:25Fitness, like cleaning the [ __ ]
51:26bathrooms. It was the worst. And I grew
51:29up in a society where it was just like
51:31lawyer, doctor, finance, and you're
51:33going to an Ivy League school.
51:34Otherwise, you and your family are never
51:36going to be talked about again, right?
51:37Like that's all anyone cared about. And
51:39I was like this kid who could not even
51:41finish a sentence in a book because my
51:43ADHD was so outrageously miserable. And
51:46I finally was able to to figure out a
51:49space where I could use that ADHD and
51:52harness it towards hyperfocus on one
51:53thing which started as the gym, right?
51:56So I just got obsessed with the gym and
51:57I seem to get some like positive society
51:59status around being the person that was
52:01in shape. And then I realized, oh, if I
52:03just teach people how to get in shape
52:04with my wife, we'll make a whole
52:06following out of giving this free value
52:08away. Right? So that was the the the the
52:10the seed for everything that had started
52:13was taking this thing that like most of
52:14society said was like kind of dumb and
52:16we were not academics and I can't even
52:18read a book and it's like how do we
52:21choose that one thing that we are good
52:22at and start our community by giving
52:24that away as free value right but your
52:28question was why did you bootstrap was
52:31it just did you just not know any better
52:32>> going back yeah so going back to not
52:34being an academic we didn't even [ __ ]
52:36know what enterprise value was I didn't
52:38realize like anyone would want to like
52:39buy a brand like Bloom or buy a piece of
52:42a brand like Bloom and become a large
52:44scale investor. Like I had no idea what
52:46any of this was. Like even when we had
52:47the $ 1.36 million day, like I thought
52:50that was crazy, but I didn't know what
52:52anyone else was doing. Like we were
52:53locked in a room forever just working
52:55together. So we had kind of no idea what
52:57we were creating the whole time. And
52:59it's funny like even when we ended up
53:00moving to Boulder, Colorado, which is we
53:02moved there because we were starting our
53:04entrepreneurship journey. We had Mari
53:05Fitness. Then we had the Slay app and we
53:07moved to Boulder, Colorado because we
53:08just needed to get away from the society
53:10and this culture that we were in of
53:12lawyer, doctor, finance. And we lived
53:14there for a year and a half. We don't
53:16have one friend. We didn't make one
53:18friend in Boulder, Colorado. It was just
53:19my wife and I working every day, seven
53:22days a week for a year and a half. And
53:23that's where we launched Bloom. But
53:25yeah, we had no idea what we were
53:26building. And then one day we were we
53:29were at you know a trade show and
53:31someone came up to us and we're like are
53:32you aware of what this business could be
53:35worth like and we want to buy a piece of
53:37it and we could help you you know scale
53:38it up and we had all the fun private
53:41equity conversations and none of them
53:42really floated our boat and we were
53:44profitable at the time and I don't know
53:46that just like wasn't really our thing.
53:47Shout out to anyone who does private
53:49equity deals like do do your thing. That
53:52just like wasn't Bloom's path and so
53:54yeah we had no idea what that was. We
53:56had no idea.
53:57>> So why NeutriBolt? Let's talk about that
53:58deal. That was that was a big deal you
54:00guys had a couple years ago.
54:00>> So we had a nutrition portfolio and we
54:03had a little bit of a reputation for
54:04ourselves of like, you know, we we were
54:06continuing to take swings and not only
54:08were we able to sell an amazing greens
54:11business, but the greens business was
54:12Bloom as an overall platform brand and
54:15we really understood social media and we
54:18were kind of like the new the new hot
54:19thing on the block and I wanted to go
54:22after beverage. Once we we were told
54:25from private equity that if you add a
54:28beverage to the portfolio, two things
54:29will happen. One, no one was acquiring
54:32beverage businesses at the time, right?
54:33So like you know Celsius buying Alani or
54:35Cure Dr. Pepper buying Ghost or whatever
54:38these recent transactions are that have
54:39been happening.
54:40>> Context, what year was this? 2022. 2023.
54:43>> 2022.
54:44>> Yeah.
54:44>> And no, 2023. Y
54:46>> and so there wasn't a market for energy
54:48drinks. And even worse, generally a
54:51large scale strategic doesn't want to
54:52buy like a platform brand. They want to
54:55buy an amazing collagen powder brand.
54:57They want to buy an amazing just a lone
54:59energy drink
55:00>> for meat on the bone. They don't want it
55:01fully,
55:01>> right? Cuz like Nestle might just want
55:03the supplement powders, but they don't
55:04do energy drinks. And then Cur Dr.
55:06Pepper probably only wants energy
55:07drinks, right? So, I'm not speaking for
55:10Dr. Pepper there, but we knew we wanted
55:11to go after energy drinks. And I also
55:13knew that I was just like a 28-year-old
55:15trying to figure out like how was I
55:16going to level up my career? And so
55:18after talking to a thousand different
55:20potential partners and private equity
55:22and banks and whatever it may be, we had
55:24a choice of either just selling this
55:26whole business or trying to go after the
55:29next big challenge with what we had
55:31built, which we knew would be beverage.
55:33And the only person who was down to
55:36partner with us on beverage was Doss
55:38Cunningham, who's the CEO of Neutribalt,
55:40which is C4. We all, most of us men in
55:42America probably tried C4 pre-workout
55:44sometime in our life. You probably
55:46snorted it at some point. And so
55:47[laughter]
55:48>> no no start.
55:49>> Yeah,
55:49>> we talk a lot about no explode on this.
55:51You remember no explode?
55:52>> Dude, BSN, hell of a product. Hell of a
55:54product.
55:54>> That's a banger.
55:54>> Mine would I would just keep it in the
55:55trunk of my car and it would like
55:57crystallized in the bottle and like if
55:58you could get a crystal before an arm
56:00pump, it was over. But anyway,
56:01>> this was the steroids before the
56:02steroids.
56:02>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Thank God
56:04for those two. And then [laughter] so
56:06and so we we sat with Doss and there was
56:11two huge things that we noticed. one, he
56:13had taken a C4 pre-workout brand and had
56:16also launched it into C4 energy drink
56:18and scaled that to over half a billion.
56:20So, it was someone who had done it
56:21before.
56:22>> The exact playbook that you guys want,
56:23>> exact playbook, but for men. So, in
56:25theory, we could plug into the same
56:26manufacturers, the same sales team, the
56:28same distribution partners, which at the
56:30time he had an inked contract and still
56:32does with Dr. Pepper. So, out of the
56:35gate, we could get a beverage onto Dr.
56:37Pepper trucks. On top of that, he was
56:40one of the only, you know, I don't want
56:41to speak for him here, but he was one of
56:43the only billionaires I'd ever met that
56:44still had his whole family intact. You
56:46know, every time I called him, he was at
56:48a baseball game for his kids. And, you
56:50know,
56:50>> good dude.
56:51>> Good dude. Texas Texas values. And it
56:53was like, I need to figure out my mentor
56:55cuz I have no idea like what type of
56:57person I'm going to turn into,
56:58especially with like the size of the
57:00business that I'm running, the amount of
57:01wealth that I'm coming into, whatever it
57:02may be. I was like, I don't want to lose
57:04my wife and all these other rich people
57:05are losing their wives. So, it's like,
57:07how do I figure this out? I should
57:08probably go find a mentor to work with.
57:10And so,
57:11>> I came through in the PJ, guys. Just
57:12just quick context. [laughter] We'll
57:13talk about that later. It came through
57:14in the PJ.
57:15>> That's crazy. Yeah. But I uh I actually
57:16tried to get a helicopter. So, so I
57:21I had two things. I had like a personal
57:24and business mentor that I could go work
57:26under in my 20s and also somebody who
57:28had the playbook of how to launch this
57:30beverage. And when I think about
57:33partnerships, if the word strategic
57:35doesn't come before that, I think you
57:38might as well just sell your whole
57:39business, right? And we didn't want to
57:41sell our whole business. And I knew that
57:42if we signed a contract with Neutrabolt
57:45with the intention of this being a a
57:47joint venture of making a beverage
57:49together and getting Cure Dr. Pepper
57:51involved,
57:52I could sell 30% of the business and the
57:54business would be worth three times the
57:56amount the next day. So if you're going
57:59to sell a chunk of your business which
58:00will be the most expensive or valuable
58:04contract that you ever sign in your
58:06life,
58:07it better be something that increases
58:09the enterprise value of your business
58:10because you are now associated with that
58:12brand. Right? So on day one of signing
58:14that business, we I mean we sprinted to
58:17the R&D lab, came up with Blue Energy,
58:19we were already in talks with Dr.
58:21Pepper, we got an exclusive launch with
58:22Target just 6 months after that. So, it
58:24just took six months from signing the
58:26partnership contracts to having a
58:28product on target shelves and it blew
58:30out of the water. Then 3 months later
58:32gotten Dr. Pepper Trucks and then now
58:34two years later we're in 50,000 doors.
58:36>> Let's stop for a second there. You said
58:38pretty big inflection point there. You
58:40had offers in your company. So
58:41>> yeah.
58:42>> So you had a nine figure offer for
58:43someone to buy your company.
58:45>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean the business
58:46the business was profitable omni
58:48channel. It was a hero scoop brand. And
58:50it checked all the boxes for like what a
58:51business what what type of businesses
58:53people wanted to acquire at that time.
58:56>> No risk, no reward here, guys.
58:57>> But what the hell was I going to do? Be
58:59like a 28-year-old and lay on a beach
59:01and then even now today it's like I have
59:03the son and it's like or have my son at
59:05home and it's like if I sold Bloom, he's
59:08just going to like not see me go to work
59:09every day or he's just going to like see
59:11these cans in stores and not even
59:12believe me that I made it. So it's like,
59:14you know what? What actually matters at
59:16this point?
59:16>> Yeah. And ironically, so many people,
59:18it's like the the Mark Zuckerberg thing.
59:20It's like, "Why didn't you sell for a
59:21billion dollars?" He's like, "Oh, I
59:22would start this same company." And you
59:24actually start seeing that.
59:25>> Exactly.
59:25>> The Rahal episode is is is a perfect
59:27example of that. He literally sells an
59:29RX bar for 600 and then he waits for his
59:30non-compete and does another protein
59:32bar.
59:32>> And catching Lightning in a bottle twice
59:34>> is a whole other level of risk. I
59:37already had Lightning in a Bottle, so
59:38why would I give it up? And so, I knew
59:40that I could take what we had and just
59:42make it I mean, this could be, you know,
59:43generational. We've all seen the
59:44monsters and Red Bulls of the world just
59:46go decades and now they're handing down
59:48the the the the crown to the to the I
59:51don't know what do you call it? Like
59:52they're their the next person.
59:54>> I mean the fact that you guys have all
59:55the retail doors and Tik Tok shop
59:58affiliate and like
59:59>> you guys are going to absolutely hammer
1:00:02the
1:00:02>> [ __ ] out of that.
1:00:03>> We're excited, man.
1:00:04>> That's going to be absolutely crazy. How
1:00:05did your job change kind of overnight?
1:00:07You signed the deal. What is Greg before
1:00:10that and what is Greg after that deal?
1:00:12It's funny because like one of one of my
1:00:13rules with talent acquisition has always
1:00:16been one hire for your pain points and
1:00:19sometimes your pain points are just the
1:00:21things that you don't enjoy doing. And I
1:00:22love building brands. I love marketing
1:00:24and I love, you know, disrupting and
1:00:27embracing culture.
1:00:29I don't really love the supply chain
1:00:31side of things. I don't really I
1:00:32definitely don't love the P&L side of
1:00:34things. Like I don't have Microsoft
1:00:35Office on my computer. I hate
1:00:37spreadsheets. And
1:00:38>> Leo said that six months ago you
1:00:40downloaded it.
1:00:41>> Yeah. Well, I haven't opened it. And
1:00:43[laughter]
1:00:44>> yeah, I use I use Mac numbers. Yeah.
1:00:46Yeah. Yeah.
1:00:46>> That's some that's some that's some
1:00:47ghetto [ __ ]
1:00:49>> Yeah.
1:00:49>> He he tech he texted me yesterday. I
1:00:51told him no Microsoft Excel today. I'm
1:00:54more of like a Google Sheets. I know
1:00:55like like three or four different like
1:00:56little ninja lookups, but I'm happy with
1:00:58AI. So, we can really walk away from
1:01:00that [ __ ]
1:01:01>> And so, with that deal, like they handle
1:01:04all the commercialization of the
1:01:05product. They handle all the supply
1:01:07chain for the product. I don't really
1:01:09need to like worry about these
1:01:1118-wheeler trucks going on around the
1:01:13country because Dr. Pepper handles that.
1:01:15And so I was able to kind of get rid of
1:01:18everything that I don't enjoy doing and
1:01:19was able to embrace what I'm good at and
1:01:21what I do enjoy doing. And Docs is a P&L
1:01:24guy. Doss like gets fired up with a
1:01:26spreadsheet in front of him, right? And
1:01:27like Dr. Pepper loves logistics and
1:01:29sending this product all around the
1:01:30country. So, I basically have this team
1:01:32where it's like, if you can make a
1:01:34strategic partnership where it's 1 plus
1:01:361 equals 3 and you're both doing what
1:01:39you love, then that's going to be a a
1:01:41magical ride off into the sunset.
1:01:43>> Yeah, it sounds like a a win-win there.
1:01:46If you had to kind of boil down,
1:01:47obviously this guy is an OG and he took
1:01:50the same exact playbook. If you can kind
1:01:51of boil down some of the key learnings
1:01:53from him, what are some key things that
1:01:55he's taught you over the last couple
1:01:56years? Because obviously you guys have
1:01:57had explosive growth with him coming out
1:01:59as a partner. It's funny like we have a
1:02:01a pretty
1:02:02a pretty impressive board for Bloom now
1:02:05that we we do have a cap table and a
1:02:09couple of them are self-made
1:02:10billionaires and we'll have a problem
1:02:12with this energy drink which you would
1:02:14think like for these incredibly high IQ
1:02:16people that are on our board this is
1:02:17like this is simpleton stuff right and
1:02:20we'll have a huge problem that we bring
1:02:21to the board and they'll just be like
1:02:23man this is a really tough one like I I
1:02:26don't know and I think just like the the
1:02:28biggest thing that I take away from that
1:02:29is just like we're all humans and
1:02:31therefore this is free game for
1:02:32everybody, right? And it's like no,
1:02:34everyone has something that they're
1:02:36incredibly good at. Very few people are
1:02:38a 10 out of 10 at everything. I'm
1:02:39definitely not a 10 out of 10 at
1:02:40everything. I'm a 10 out of 10 at one or
1:02:42two things. And
1:02:44>> I feel like you're a pretty gangster
1:02:45generalist. You're like a
1:02:46>> like a little bit of a Swiss Army.
1:02:47>> Yeah, you're maybe.
1:02:49>> But, you know, just understanding that
1:02:50like
1:02:53>> we're all humans participating in this
1:02:55game and no one actually has that much
1:02:56of a greater advantage than anybody
1:02:58else. And so I'm a I'm a huge fan of
1:03:01again like going into C the four-minute
1:03:04mile. Like once the four-minute mile has
1:03:07been ran, other brands are able to do
1:03:08it. That's why I went after energy
1:03:10drinks. There was already a playbook to
1:03:11follow. And so just like understanding
1:03:13there's a playbook to getting to this
1:03:15much success and trying to take as much
1:03:16notes as I can from his day-to-day life,
1:03:18which is I mean the guy's in the office
1:03:20every day. He doesn't need to be, you
1:03:22know, he's he answers my texts quickly
1:03:24no matter what and does not need to do
1:03:26this anymore. and just like continuing
1:03:29to say stay cognitively stimulated on a
1:03:33regular basis and and and embrace
1:03:35everything that comes with that has been
1:03:36like the coolest thing that I've learned
1:03:37from all of the successful people around
1:03:39me.
1:03:39>> How old is this guy?
1:03:41>> Mid-40s.
1:03:43>> Damn. Let's go.
1:03:44>> Yeah.
1:03:45>> Let's shift a little bit to to product
1:03:46and repo retail before we get into
1:03:48specific retailers.
1:03:50>> Yeah.
1:03:50>> Like what's your framework of deciding
1:03:52which product goes into kind of which
1:03:54door? How does how does that work? You
1:03:56know, I've played the exclusivity game a
1:03:58few times and it has created a lot of
1:04:00drama. You know, if the product does
1:04:02well, the other retailers will be
1:04:04annoyed that they didn't get it first.
1:04:06And I love FOMO. Sometimes FOMO is like
1:04:08the greatest game that you can play. And
1:04:09I love a little bit of drama cuz they'll
1:04:11act upset, but then place a twice as
1:04:13large order, right? But generally
1:04:15speaking, I try to
1:04:19shoot wide, give it to anyone who wants
1:04:21it, and not play that exclusivity game.
1:04:24And the sales will kind of dictate on
1:04:26its own like which retailers should
1:04:28really pay the most attention and give
1:04:30the most attention to that product. I'm
1:04:32not a huge fan of like this is our Whole
1:04:34Foods product, this is our Costco
1:04:36product, this is our Amazon product.
1:04:38Like because of our digital marketing
1:04:40and it's being shown to everybody, I
1:04:42kind of need to make sure that the same
1:04:44exact product in all of its forms are
1:04:47available everywhere.
1:04:49>> Interesting. We touched on Amazon a bit
1:04:51and you mentioned like you you don't win
1:04:52on Amazon on Amazon. I completely agree.
1:04:55How do you guys look at just that whole
1:04:57entire flywheel from a.com to Amazon and
1:05:00then into retail? Like what's the
1:05:01holistic approach? Is it just all top of
1:05:02the funnel and just let it let it like
1:05:04fall as it may?
1:05:05>> Well,
1:05:07our business is less than 5% Shopify. So
1:05:11the day Wow. Yeah. Well, but keep in
1:05:13mind we're beverage too. So this is our
1:05:15largest business in the portfolio now is
1:05:17our beverages and no one has a DTOC
1:05:20beverage business right like if you want
1:05:21a beverage on e-commerce you go to
1:05:23Amazon so it's it doesn't really work
1:05:25even like shipping a case
1:05:26>> when you say 5% DTOC that means just the
1:05:29the Bloom website not Amazon
1:05:30>> correct yeah like true direct to
1:05:32consumer or Shopify that said when we so
1:05:35we were a DTOC only brand for the first
1:05:3818 to 24 months the day that we extended
1:05:41out of Shopify we went over to Amazon
1:05:43and The day we went over to Amazon,
1:05:47I did what every other entrepreneur at
1:05:49the time would have hated me for doing.
1:05:50I used our email list, our SMS list, all
1:05:53of our Instagram portfolios or or or
1:05:55profiles and said, "Go buy on Amazon."
1:05:58Now, I knew that we had hit the glass
1:06:00ceiling on Shopify. And I knew that the
1:06:02instead of just making a new product,
1:06:04there was a larger TAM to go after just
1:06:06on Amazon. And kind of just like
1:06:08realizing that Amazon itself was a
1:06:09social media with an algorithm. If we
1:06:12could bring so much exogenous or
1:06:13external traffic over to Amazon and kind
1:06:16of arbitrage that whole SEO that exists
1:06:18over there, we could double the business
1:06:20that was happening on our Shopify by
1:06:22just playing the Amazon game correctly.
1:06:24And you play that game correctly by
1:06:26sending people from outside of Amazon to
1:06:28Amazon.
1:06:29>> Yeah. So, is that the best way to win on
1:06:31Amazon as you have to sacrifice
1:06:32elsewhere?
1:06:33>> It it depends what you consider win.
1:06:35Like I'm a guy where when I'm moving on
1:06:37to the next challenge, I am literally
1:06:39willing to sacrifice the last thing that
1:06:41I just won, right? So I've done that
1:06:43even with launching new products. I've
1:06:44done it with launching new channels. And
1:06:46so when we sacrificed Shopify to win on
1:06:49Amazon, there was a net gain. And then
1:06:51when we went into brickandmortar retail
1:06:53doors, dude, we sacrificed all of
1:06:55digital resources to go towards winning
1:06:58Target. And then winning Target opened
1:07:00the doors to 50,000 other doors because
1:07:02that was the proof of concept that this
1:07:03product can work in brick and mortar.
1:07:05And when I say sacrifice and you and you
1:07:08take your foot off of the gas of those
1:07:10other things because I'm a very big fan
1:07:12of not having a divers diversified
1:07:13portfolio even with your mind share and
1:07:15what you're what you're prioritizing.
1:07:18It's not like our Amazon just fell off a
1:07:20cliff the next day. This is the top
1:07:21three energy drink on Amazon. Like if
1:07:24you're moving on to greater challenges,
1:07:26whether it's in products or within the
1:07:30retail doors that you're going after or
1:07:31the consumers that you're going after,
1:07:33the larger challenge will halo back to
1:07:35what you just sacrificed or what you are
1:07:37no longer giving resources to. So, I'm a
1:07:39huge fan of like if you go after bigger
1:07:41goals, the things that you leave behind
1:07:43like won't just die overnight. If
1:07:44anything, they'll just become like cash
1:07:46printers, right?
1:07:47>> Yeah. You'll still get some some drip. I
1:07:48feel like I don't want to like typ cast
1:07:50like all different CBG products, but
1:07:51from like a drink perspective, it's just
1:07:53retail is obviously the most important,
1:07:54the most amount of doors.
1:07:56>> Amazon is second because it has intent
1:07:57and the Shopify should be last.
1:07:59>> Dude, Shopify beverage doesn't work.
1:08:01It's too heavy. Just shipping cost
1:08:03unless you were going to charge your
1:08:03consumers $25 for shipping, which no
1:08:05one's going to do that. You know what I
1:08:06mean?
1:08:07>> Got to go subscription. I feel like you
1:08:09got to go heavy on that to make it
1:08:10worth. But I guess you still get hit
1:08:11with the shipping.
1:08:12>> Amazon's won that. Like
1:08:13>> interesting. So, I know we talked about
1:08:14just wanting to go into saturated, you
1:08:16know, markets, but obviously there was
1:08:18probably some sort of iteration on like
1:08:20whit space. What is like the white space
1:08:21that you guys have seen like on the
1:08:23retail side? What specifically did you
1:08:25see that made you want to obviously go
1:08:27where you're going now?
1:08:28>> So, I mentioned we were kind of
1:08:30headtohead following the cotales of AG1
1:08:33at the time and they were the top
1:08:36selling greens powder at the moment and
1:08:38they were DTOC only and they were super
1:08:41expensive and they tasted like [ __ ] So
1:08:43the white space wasn't making a greens
1:08:46powder. The white space was
1:08:48distribution. If they were only DOC,
1:08:50then I'll go into brick and mortar. The
1:08:52white space was accessibility. Be a
1:08:54third of the price and be everywhere. Be
1:08:56easy to buy. The ex the the the the
1:08:59white space was palatability. So how can
1:09:02you look at a category that is saturated
1:09:06but find the white space within it? For
1:09:08us, it was the energy drink space that
1:09:09the white space was the female isn't
1:09:11being spoken to correctly. it the
1:09:13products aren't cute, right? So to me,
1:09:16whites space is how do you zoom in on
1:09:18the category and find the whites space
1:09:19within the larger category?
1:09:21>> Go saturated, but find the white space.
1:09:22So AG1, you just completely piggybacked
1:09:24and just went different distribution and
1:09:26on the energy energy drink, you just did
1:09:28branding, positioning, a little bit of
1:09:29different ICP on the female side.
1:09:31>> Yeah. And I would say of course, you
1:09:33know, center of excellence of
1:09:35distribution as well.
1:09:36>> Yeah.
1:09:36>> With Dr. Pepper,
1:09:37>> I was surprised too when I I Googled you
1:09:38guys. I didn't know how forward facing
1:09:39you are on the female side. Like it's
1:09:41like on like
1:09:42>> you type it into Google and it talks
1:09:43about like women's
1:09:45>> drinks.
1:09:46>> Yeah. I mean I that we were we were ma
1:09:48we are made by women for women. I think
1:09:50the energy drink has allowed us to tap
1:09:52into more men. It's funny going back to
1:09:54syndicated data.
1:09:55>> Generally speaking the the mother of the
1:09:57household does the shopping right
1:09:58majority of the time. And that's just
1:10:00how society is set up right now. And the
1:10:03mom is swiping her credit card. She
1:10:05might be 35. she's a female, but she's
1:10:08buying the Doritos and Red Bull for her
1:10:10husband. The syndicated data will show
1:10:12that as the mom is buying it. So, you
1:10:14need to be really careful with who's
1:10:15swiping the credit card. But what's also
1:10:17amazing about selling to the woman if
1:10:19she is doing the household shopping is
1:10:23when I make a soda that's healthy for
1:10:25the whole family, the mom is buying that
1:10:28for her kids, she als she sets the trend
1:10:30because she's she's stuffing the pantry,
1:10:32right? So, she will get the husband or
1:10:34the boyfriend to start trying this
1:10:36product that she's trying every day. And
1:10:38I feel like that influence doesn't
1:10:39happen nearly as much with the male
1:10:41consumer. Very rarely does my wife want
1:10:43to start consuming a product that I
1:10:45take. I want to try the products that
1:10:46she's trying, right? Like, she'll like
1:10:48help me with my clothes. She'll help me
1:10:49with the food that I'm trying. I I could
1:10:51eat ground beef and [ __ ] rice every
1:10:52meal, right? And she'll like take me to
1:10:54the new restaurant to go try. I'm never
1:10:55taking her out of her comfort zone. I
1:10:56should probably do that more. But
1:10:58[laughter] but like the the women kind
1:11:00of influence the entire household way
1:11:02more than a man ever would. And so I've
1:11:04never sold to men directly, but I I
1:11:07don't think I would have it any other
1:11:08way.
1:11:09>> Yeah. And we talked a little bit off
1:11:10camera. We're going to get into it. Just
1:11:11personal brand. I feel like that guy, it
1:11:13might have come from the woman. Then
1:11:15he's on Instagram and then he starts
1:11:16getting your content and the guy content
1:11:18behind Bloom and starts resonating it
1:11:20with more
1:11:20>> dude. And I would imagine it's the same
1:11:22thing for hospitality just cuz I
1:11:23obviously just finished your episode.
1:11:24Like I would be so curious. Obviously,
1:11:25there's like a male female ratio that
1:11:27you want in any type of nightclub, but
1:11:28like even at restaurants, like you want
1:11:30to make sure that the woman is
1:11:31comfortable there. The guy's going to be
1:11:32comfortable anywhere, right? But like or
1:11:34a gym, you're opening up a large, we
1:11:35were just talking about a sick new gym
1:11:36that you're going to and getting in the
1:11:38best shape of your life. Like, you need
1:11:40to design that place for women to be
1:11:42comfortable, the guy will be comfortable
1:11:44there, right? Like, if you make a place
1:11:45that's like toxically masculine, a woman
1:11:47won't step foot inside of it.
1:11:48>> 100%. They're getting the continuity
1:11:50because my wife is comfortable and I
1:11:51like going to the gym with her.
1:11:53>> Yes. So that makes a lot of sense. All
1:11:55these big retailers, what are some of
1:11:57those key things we talk about all the
1:11:58time, obviously the sell through, not
1:12:00the sell in. What are some of kind of
1:12:01those key things? Obviously, I know
1:12:02you're talking to these retailers a lot.
1:12:04>> How do people get the sell through?
1:12:06Anything big you want to touch on there?
1:12:07>> All right. So, first of all,
1:12:10>> I go to these meetings in person. I
1:12:13don't just send a salesperson. We have
1:12:15the best sales team out of anybody. love
1:12:17our sales team, but like I try to go in
1:12:19person and be on a first-name basis
1:12:21relationship with anyone who's a
1:12:22decision maker at these retailers. That
1:12:24is huge. And I've found that as a
1:12:26consistent variable even when I talk to
1:12:27the the biggest comp multi-billion
1:12:29dollar energy drink companies, they can
1:12:31name you who is currently in the seat of
1:12:33decision-m at these retailers and they
1:12:35have their number and they're texting
1:12:37them, right? That is crucial,
1:12:38>> guys. You've heard that from some of the
1:12:39best CPG guys on this. So,
1:12:42>> you're never starter. You're never too
1:12:44big to think that you can't go have that
1:12:46relationship in person. And as my life
1:12:48has gotten more complicated and I've had
1:12:50to take my foot off the gas of being on
1:12:52an airplane as often, I I can see it
1:12:54hurting things. And I would say on top
1:12:58of that, going back to like controlling
1:13:00your luck, what are things that you
1:13:02could do to to have better l luck and
1:13:04more doors open throughout your career?
1:13:06Your reputation is [ __ ] everything.
1:13:08If a retailer places a PO and you aren't
1:13:11able to fill it or if you know you do
1:13:14fill the first one and it sells really
1:13:15well and you can't sell more inventory,
1:13:17that's very different than running out
1:13:18of stock on Amazon or Shopify where
1:13:20you're only accountable to yourself. If
1:13:22you do that to a Target or Walmart,
1:13:24that's that's their business and that'll
1:13:26be an empty shelf. Like these are huge
1:13:27cruise ships. They can't just put
1:13:29something else there. But a similar
1:13:31thought there would be now when Walmart
1:13:33has an energy drink company that can't
1:13:36fill a PO and they have an open spot in
1:13:38the center of their doors and you know
1:13:40action alley they call it in the center
1:13:42of the Walmarts they know they can call
1:13:44Bloom and we will have enough inventory.
1:13:45We do have the supply chain. Greg will
1:13:47pick up the phone and say of course I
1:13:49have a product that I'll make just for
1:13:50that situation.
1:13:51>> That is 100% relationship based.
1:13:53>> Yes. And then and and then that person
1:13:54it's a net new spot that you can take
1:13:56and if you do well with good sell
1:13:57through and they like you then that
1:13:58other person
1:14:00>> relationship and reputation
1:14:01>> and I think it's funny because I would
1:14:03say if you're in the first five years of
1:14:05your entrepreneurship journey and that's
1:14:06a blanket statement or a broad
1:14:08statement.
1:14:09>> I'm not pro networking.
1:14:11>> I think that if you're in the I say I
1:14:13think stay locked in and build something
1:14:16special and if you build something
1:14:18special the network will come to you.
1:14:19When I was in the first 5 years of my
1:14:21career, no one gave a [ __ ] what I was
1:14:22doing. Anyone that I wanted to go have
1:14:24dinner with or wanted to go network
1:14:26with, why would they give me the time of
1:14:28day? Like, that's just the reality of
1:14:29society. Once I built something special,
1:14:32once Bloom was doing over $150 million a
1:14:35year, they were in my DMs. They were
1:14:37texting me, hey, we should, you know,
1:14:39cross paths and figure out how we can
1:14:41trade notes. And so I think networking
1:14:43in the beginning of your career is a
1:14:45super overrated
1:14:48fun thing that that sounds productive,
1:14:50but the reality is you're not going to
1:14:52really be able to network with anybody
1:14:53that can move your needle until you're
1:14:56also building something special and can
1:14:57provide value back to them. These are
1:14:59transa networking is transactional.
1:15:01>> Yeah. I think for people out there
1:15:02listening, I don't think the number
1:15:03necessarily needs to be 100 million, but
1:15:05I think like
1:15:06>> I would say three million, five million.
1:15:10Get get to a point where like you
1:15:11actually understand and know how to
1:15:13operate a business.
1:15:14>> Yeah. Before then, I mean, dude, I
1:15:15remember the the beginning days of
1:15:16Iconic. I didn't leave the [ __ ] bean
1:15:18bag. I just I didn't leave that whole
1:15:20apartment. It was literally like CO was
1:15:23nothing to me cuz CO was what it already
1:15:25[ __ ] was.
1:15:25>> Dude, my life did not change at all when
1:15:27CO hit. It was an opportunity. I went 60
1:15:31I think it was 68 days in a row where I
1:15:33went past the refrigerator three times.
1:15:35I did I did a 100 pull-ups every single
1:15:37morning when I woke up and I did not
1:15:39leave my my nook.
1:15:40>> I love that.
1:15:41>> It was legendary,
1:15:42>> dude. I would also say my biggest growth
1:15:44hack to any entrepreneur entering their
1:15:4730s, I just turned 31 a couple weeks
1:15:49ago. S and and of course as you get
1:15:51older, surround yourself with young
1:15:53people. That is the biggest growth hack.
1:15:56these young people. I mean, it's almost
1:15:58like how I was like the Instagram guy
1:15:59because I was the generation that grew
1:16:01up with Instagram and Instagram to me
1:16:02was the same thing as like going on a
1:16:03walk. That's them with AI. That's them
1:16:06with Tik Tok shop. Like my favorite
1:16:08people to network with is not the
1:16:09billionaires that have already made it
1:16:11and they're 45 and like whatever they
1:16:13did worked 20 years ago. I want to talk
1:16:15to the 22 year olds that are rocket
1:16:17shipping these businesses overnight
1:16:19using the new tactics. So my biggest
1:16:22growth hack to any entrepreneur today is
1:16:24just surround yourself or regularly
1:16:27cross paths with young people. They know
1:16:29the true hacks.
1:16:30>> Yeah, I completely agree. For us in the
1:16:32AI, we just met with this guy Remy. He's
1:16:3321 years old.
1:16:34>> Crazy in in Miami. It was insane cuz
1:16:37he's just cracked 18 hours a day on this
1:16:40stuff. To tie a bow on the target stuff,
1:16:42what about from a a communication
1:16:43perspective? Like are you asking them
1:16:46what is doing good, what's not doing
1:16:47good? Are you showing them product
1:16:48before it comes out? like what is those
1:16:50other kind of little nuances that people
1:16:52need to know to make sure they're asking
1:16:53the right questions.
1:16:54>> I I think this goes back to like what
1:16:56would a human want to see, right? And
1:16:58they want to feel involved. They want to
1:17:00feel like they are taking a chance with
1:17:02your brand as well. And they want to
1:17:03feel entrepreneurial, right? They're
1:17:05entrepreneurs within the walls of their
1:17:07corporation. And they have a crazy job.
1:17:09They have like a limited amount of real
1:17:11estate where they need to choose a
1:17:12product that's going to live there for
1:17:14six to 12 months. And that's a huge
1:17:16that's a huge risk. And if you can take
1:17:17them along the journey of R&Ding a
1:17:20product with them, then that's huge. I
1:17:22would also say they're they're not
1:17:25entrepreneurs for a reason. So if you go
1:17:28there and ask them for advice on what to
1:17:30make, be very careful. That goes back to
1:17:32the keyboard warriors. Like they don't
1:17:33necessarily know what will work. And if
1:17:36you want to make sure they feel
1:17:37involved, you know, there are obviously
1:17:39some tricks to that. You can show them
1:17:41three products and you know two of them
1:17:42suck and you want them to choose the
1:17:44middle one. just, you know, show them
1:17:45two products that suck so that they
1:17:47choose the third one that you actually
1:17:48want them to choose and then they feel
1:17:49like they're part of the process. But,
1:17:51you know, that's just part of like
1:17:52semantics and and dealing with humans.
1:17:53>> Controlling the options. That's good.
1:17:54>> Controlling the options. Yeah.
1:17:56>> And but I would say like, yeah, love
1:17:58having relationships with them. They
1:17:59they will they will generally change
1:18:01seats very often. So, you'll have a new
1:18:03person every two years.
1:18:04>> I hate that.
1:18:06>> I I get why it happens, right? cuz like
1:18:07you you when you're competing with 20,
1:18:1030, 40year-old businesses and they like
1:18:12are at people's weddings at these
1:18:14retailers at this point because they've
1:18:15done business together for 20 years and
1:18:17like I'm trying to get my foot in the
1:18:18door. It it is it is advantageous for
1:18:21for getting new brands in, which I'm
1:18:23always pro that. But yeah, having having
1:18:27a real, you know, then again, if I'm
1:18:30being totally honest with you, I don't
1:18:31do dinners.
1:18:32I don't think that you need to like
1:18:34really get to know who Greg is. like
1:18:36this is a business relationship and I
1:18:38want to talk about building something
1:18:39really special with you, but I don't see
1:18:41any advantage to us breaking bread
1:18:44together in a in a in a fully
1:18:46transactional relationship like that. If
1:18:48anything, I almost feel like you want to
1:18:50have an illusion of yourself as like
1:18:52this large decision maker running your
1:18:55business. And I don't want to expose to
1:18:57you that we are all humans or that we
1:18:59are that I am like, you know, stressed
1:19:00about the same things that you're
1:19:01stressed about. I need to come in there
1:19:03briefly with a ton of confidence,
1:19:05involve you in the process, and then get
1:19:07back to my dungeon and and work
1:19:08>> predictability. They want Yeah. I don't
1:19:11think that like you should necessarily
1:19:12have like
1:19:13>> you shouldn't talk to them about your
1:19:14personal life. Like that's not what
1:19:15they're there for. That's not what we're
1:19:16there for. We're there to do business.
1:19:18>> That's what this is for, guys. We're
1:19:19about to get into that next. Personal
1:19:20life.
1:19:21>> Tying up on the retail side. What's one
1:19:22thing you know today that you didn't
1:19:24know in the beginning?
1:19:27retail, similar to every business
1:19:30relationship I've ever had, is generally
1:19:32what have you done for me lately? And
1:19:36nobody, you do not deserve to be treated
1:19:39differently because of what you did 3
1:19:41years ago. You deserve to be treated
1:19:43differently because of what you've done
1:19:44in the last 3 months. And that is how I
1:19:47would like to be judged and that's how I
1:19:48would like everybody else to be judged.
1:19:51That is how
1:19:53capitalism works. And I agree with
1:19:57capitalism. So, so I think in the past I
1:20:00thought that
1:20:02once we had an incredible summer of
1:20:042023, then I could lean on that to have
1:20:07a strong 2025. That's not really the
1:20:09case. It's like if you want to have a
1:20:11strong summer 2025, you better have a
1:20:12good Q1.
1:20:14>> Rent do every day.
1:20:16>> Yeah. [ __ ] yeah.
1:20:17>> I use Whisper Flow for hours [music]
1:20:19every single day. I think way faster
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1:20:38you. I'm going to answer a real email
1:20:39right now without typing. You can see
1:20:42here Tiger is asking for feedback on our
1:20:44intro video for the next episode. Watch
1:20:45how I respond. if you could just make a
1:20:48few changes. [music] Uh make the red a
1:20:49little bit brighter, the typography a
1:20:51little bit smaller. Uh for the music, if
1:20:53you can just give me some other options,
1:20:55[music] and that first photo, some more
1:20:57options as well. Uh please give me three
1:20:59options for each and uh make sure you
1:21:00send it to me by [music] end of the day
1:21:02Friday. Thanks.
1:21:04So, as you can tell, the text is way
1:21:06cleaner. I kind of speak in half [music]
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1:21:24code open residency.
1:21:26All right, we talked a little bit about
1:21:27the machine. I want to get into the
1:21:29people. As I mentioned in the beginning,
1:21:30this truly is the American dream.
1:21:31Started a company with wifey, brought in
1:21:33Uncle Leo. I don't know, he's
1:21:35>> your son's middle name. Hey. Yeah.
1:21:37>> And then your mom was the CFO or
1:21:39accountant until 100 million. Why don't
1:21:41you just walk us through kind of like
1:21:42the original cast of how this all
1:21:45started and then I just want to get into
1:21:46kind of the sequencing. You've moved
1:21:48from like a ton of places and let's just
1:21:50kind of go through each of those
1:21:52>> checkpoints. So Mario and I moved five
1:21:54or six times in five or six years and I
1:21:56think one of the best ways to control
1:21:57your luck is just be in the geographic
1:22:00area that like best suits your goals. So
1:22:04Mari and I finished school in
1:22:05Philadelphia which is where we kind of
1:22:07launched Mari Fitness together. Then we
1:22:09moved to New York and lived in our dad's
1:22:11attic and that's where we started to
1:22:12have our first physical product which
1:22:13was the Booty Bands. Sold like a million
1:22:15Booty Bands, which was a crazy business
1:22:17in itself. And then we moved to Boulder,
1:22:18Colorado because we just felt like New
1:22:20York was not the place that like really
1:22:21embraced entrepreneurs. So I Googled top
1:22:24cities for entrepreneurs and Boulder,
1:22:26Colorado popped up and we kind of [ __ ]
1:22:28with hiking, I guess, not as much as
1:22:30people in Boulder. And so we moved to
1:22:31Boulder, Colorado, packed our bags and
1:22:33just immediately rented, you know, a
1:22:35two-bedroom townhouse in Boulder,
1:22:36Colorado. And we stayed there for 18
1:22:38months. And that's where Bloom was born.
1:22:39And we just stayed locked up and Mari
1:22:41and I and just tried to study social
1:22:44media and and what the female consumer
1:22:46was looking for. And then we were done
1:22:49with Boulder, Colorado. We moved back to
1:22:51Brooklyn. We thought again that that
1:22:54would be a place where now our careers
1:22:55would thrive. It definitely didn't feel
1:22:57that way. And we were really starting to
1:22:59embrace influencer culture. Wanted to
1:23:03build out the influencer program. I was
1:23:04talking about Mari was becoming like a
1:23:06larger scale content creator. COVID hit
1:23:08and we were like, "Fuck it. Let's go try
1:23:10this LA thing." And for context now,
1:23:12like there's many hubs around America
1:23:14where you could go do the whole
1:23:15influencer thing. But at the time like
1:23:17content houses and you know every big
1:23:19agency and every big brand activation,
1:23:21it was all happening in LA. That's like
1:23:23Hollywood was where dreams were made,
1:23:25right? So we packed our bags, moved to
1:23:27LA quickly when COVID hit and we got a
1:23:31month-to-month Airbnb in Santa Monica.
1:23:32It was one bedroom, one bathroom. And
1:23:34that quickly became the Bloom
1:23:35headquarters in Santa Monica. We had
1:23:37probably seven to eight people reporting
1:23:39to that Airbnb at full scale once we got
1:23:41to full scale there. And that means that
1:23:44those seven or eight people were using
1:23:45Mari and I's like personal bathroom,
1:23:47right? It was a one-bedroom, one
1:23:48bathroom. And so that was, you know,
1:23:51these are like the true grind days of
1:23:52Bloom where we had a team. And so that
1:23:54was me, myself, Leo, and a couple of our
1:23:57of our initial employees. And then my
1:23:59mom was back in New York doing finance.
1:24:00And so Leo is my best friend from high
1:24:02school. That whole hire happened because
1:24:05it was we just had the million-dollar
1:24:07day. Things were really starting to
1:24:08scale. I needed to find somebody that we
1:24:10could trust. I just lost the one
1:24:12employee that we had who lived in
1:24:13Boston. We had a falling out. And I said
1:24:16the only person that I could trust that
1:24:17could literally get our bank account
1:24:18passwords right now. I didn't know what
1:24:20LinkedIn was. I didn't know what any I
1:24:21was going to start like just putting up
1:24:23[ __ ] stapled job listings on
1:24:25telephone polls. I called Leo and we had
1:24:28the conversation about launching the
1:24:29influencer program and him coming on and
1:24:31Leo is my best friend and neighbor from
1:24:33high school and he was like, "Yeah, I'm
1:24:34all in, man. Let's [ __ ] do this." So
1:24:36Leo joined. We're working out of this
1:24:38Airbnb. This is like I mean this is just
1:24:41like discipline and entrepreneurship
1:24:42summed up because Black Friday the day
1:24:45after Thanksgiving means that we
1:24:47couldn't go to Thanksgiving with our
1:24:49family for like four or five years
1:24:51because Black Friday was too big of a
1:24:52day and Christmas 4 days later is
1:24:56January 1st which is like the Super Bowl
1:24:58for any wellness product. So we couldn't
1:24:59go to Christmas for four or five years.
1:25:01We didn't fly home for the holidays at
1:25:02all. We had Thanksgiving with the team
1:25:04in that Airbnb. We had Christmas dinners
1:25:06with the teams in those Airbnbs. what
1:25:08you said there too. It's uh for me for
1:25:10people out there in the beginning I
1:25:12actually recommend not going home for
1:25:13Thanksgiving and Christmas and obviously
1:25:14like I care about my family deeply but
1:25:16>> I remember like the first year or two
1:25:18that I did go back I was like not
1:25:21present at all and it was almost even
1:25:22worse.
1:25:23>> Well, you were a huge Black Friday
1:25:24company I bet.
1:25:25>> Huge black. But it was really fun.
1:25:27>> I feel like the first iconic I ever
1:25:28bought was on a Black Friday sale in
1:25:30college.
1:25:31>> There you go.
1:25:31>> Yeah.
1:25:32>> But it was fun. You do want to make sure
1:25:34transitionally you get those Shopify
1:25:36chuch-ings. like it was fun in the
1:25:38middle years. I would do it. I would sit
1:25:39in the kitchen with my mom and I would
1:25:40keep the Shopify chuch-ching on. That
1:25:42was a fun bonding moment.
1:25:44>> That's when they realize like, oh, you
1:25:45might actually be up to something,
1:25:46right? Because otherwise they think that
1:25:47you're just like I mean it's funny. We
1:25:49we launched Mari Fitness and we were
1:25:50using a TD Bank student account
1:25:52>> and I didn't even like trust banks at
1:25:54the time. Like I had no idea what the
1:25:56[ __ ] was going on. So every day I would
1:25:58move our PayPal balance cuz we didn't
1:26:00have a Shopify at the time. I was having
1:26:02people DM us if they wanted the product.
1:26:04I would say, "PayPal me $9.99." And then
1:26:07I would email them the instant download
1:26:08PDF. And then if they committed to that
1:26:11fitness guide and showed that they they
1:26:13actually gave a [ __ ] Mario and I would
1:26:14personally train them through a 50 to
1:26:17100 pound weight loss transformation.
1:26:19And eventually we had like a 100 people
1:26:20who had a 100 pound weight loss
1:26:21transformation that was validity for
1:26:23this massive instant download workout
1:26:25guide business that we were creating.
1:26:27>> So the genesis of Bloom was these
1:26:28instant down these PDFs and the booty
1:26:31bands. For people out there listening,
1:26:32what was the size of this business? Oh,
1:26:34like multi-million dollar a year
1:26:35business and like there was no COG,
1:26:36right? Like it was just instant download
1:26:38PDFs. And the reason there was no COG is
1:26:40because we were finishing college,
1:26:42right? Like we had no money. We had
1:26:43university laptops and we would go to a
1:26:45local Barnes & Nobles and just crank out
1:26:47on Canva the I think it was Canva on
1:26:49Canva these instant download PDFs on
1:26:51just exactly the types of weightlifting
1:26:53workouts we wanted to do. And if you
1:26:54bought the guide, you would get a
1:26:55Facebook community. You would get
1:26:57private Instagram pages with videos of
1:26:59each exercise. You'd get tons of just
1:27:01like free content. And that's what like
1:27:03really started building a community for
1:27:04us, right? It's even like Mari launching
1:27:06a podcast for our community where she
1:27:09would bring on like the top doctors
1:27:10around the nation, neurosurgeons, mental
1:27:12health, whatever it may be for free for
1:27:15our community. Like that's what building
1:27:16a brand and building a community is. And
1:27:17we learned all of that from the Mari
1:27:19fitness days. And so we scaled that
1:27:21business as a PayPal business. But going
1:27:22back to the TD Bank story, I remember
1:27:25had no idea what was going on. Every day
1:27:28I would take the PayPal balance and move
1:27:29it over to our TD Bank. And then I would
1:27:31go to TD Bank in my car and withdraw all
1:27:34of the cash and just put it into the
1:27:36car's glove box. And then eventually TD
1:27:38Bank was like, "Dude, what drugs are you
1:27:41selling? What is this like weird daily
1:27:43withdrawal that you're doing? You can no
1:27:45longer have a bank account here." So I
1:27:47was like, "Fuck this." Like what do you
1:27:49mean? Like I just want all of my money.
1:27:50Da da da. So we drive to Chase in
1:27:53Westchester, New York, and we're going
1:27:55to open up our first business account. I
1:27:56don't even think we had an LLC at the
1:27:58time. And we were like, "Yeah, we have
1:28:00an Instagram business. We would like to
1:28:01open up a business account." And they
1:28:02and you know, we got through the paper
1:28:04like, "Do you guys even like have any
1:28:05money? Like what's the what what are we
1:28:06doing here?" And Mari just took out 50
1:28:08grand from our bag and just put it on
1:28:09the table and was like, "We have this."
1:28:12So it was [laughter] like we like still
1:28:13just like had no idea what was going on.
1:28:15We were two like 21 year olds with like
1:28:17all this cash and we were just like, I
1:28:18think we need a bank account now. Like
1:28:20we truly had no all we knew was action.
1:28:23We didn't know education. So we were
1:28:25just moving forward and kind of figuring
1:28:26it out as we go. But anyway, we're back
1:28:28to LA now. Fast forward to 2021, 2022.
1:28:32We're working out of the Airbnb and
1:28:33eventually some we works there. But from
1:28:36LA,
1:28:38we bootstrapped the business. We had our
1:28:40first headquarters. We bootstrapped the
1:28:41business to 180 million. And that's when
1:28:43we started the partnership with
1:28:44Neutribolt. And upon signing the
1:28:46partnership with Neutribolt, me and our
1:28:48main team and family moved to Austin,
1:28:51Texas just to show them how ser they
1:28:52didn't ask us to, just to show them how
1:28:54seriously we were taking the
1:28:55partnership. and we needed to put all of
1:28:57the odds in our favor for this
1:28:58partnership to work. So Dr. Pepper's
1:29:00based out of Texas, Neutropol's based
1:29:02out of Austin, Texas. We bought a
1:29:04building in East Austin and that became
1:29:05Bloom's new flagship headquarters.
1:29:08>> So zooming out, I mean, five places, 5
1:29:10years, it seems like. What's the advice
1:29:12you'd give to any young founder out
1:29:13there? Just go wherever the [ __ ] you
1:29:15need to go.
1:29:15>> Go wherever you need to go because one
1:29:17of the best ways for you to increase
1:29:18your chances of luck is to be in the
1:29:20right place at the right time. So, you
1:29:22know, I don't think LA is necessarily
1:29:23the right place today for that to
1:29:25happen, but it was at the time. So,
1:29:26whatever that is for you today.
1:29:29>> Makes sense. And you think just if
1:29:31you're in the beginning, they should
1:29:31just be willing to sacrifice anything at
1:29:33that stage? I feel like
1:29:36>> if you're not all in, you're going to be
1:29:38beat by the person who's allin. Yeah.
1:29:40>> Fact.
1:29:40>> If you're not working Thanksgiving, then
1:29:41you're going to be beat by the person
1:29:42who's working Thanksgiving.
1:29:44>> Random opinion, where do you think it's
1:29:45the best place to start a company right
1:29:46now?
1:29:47>> Dude, I'm pretty bullish on this Austin
1:29:48place.
1:29:49>> Yeah,
1:29:49>> I'm pretty bullish on it. like
1:29:51>> why outside of Texas?
1:29:53>> It seems to be like the entrepreneurship
1:29:55CPG hub that I've looked for my whole
1:29:57career. And I don't think it was that 5
1:29:59years ago based off of what people tell
1:30:00me, but in the last two years, I am like
1:30:02blown away by the amount of CPG or just
1:30:07overall founders that reside in Austin,
1:30:10Texas. And the culture there is like
1:30:13Texas values of just like come over for
1:30:15dinner, let's talk about how to make
1:30:16each other better. They all have family
1:30:18values and like it's not it's not a lot
1:30:21of this. There's no gatekeeping. There's
1:30:23no gatekeeping. Everybody's open book,
1:30:24which is how I've been my whole career.
1:30:26There's no [ __ ] secrets to anything
1:30:27that I'm doing. I think that is all in
1:30:29the execution and I can tell you my
1:30:30exact playbook. And you know, there's no
1:30:32prescription to go recreating Bloom,
1:30:34right? And so I love trading notes. I
1:30:37love meeting with other founders. I find
1:30:38that I can almost only relate to other
1:30:40founders on a social level at this
1:30:42point. And on top of that, it's the
1:30:44perfect time zone. the PST time zone
1:30:46like really [ __ ] up my business or
1:30:48like how I would operate in business.
1:30:50Like trying to get on to calls at
1:30:51appropriate times with people in New
1:30:53York or internationally in the UK and
1:30:56talking to my family in New York was
1:30:57tough living in LA. So like Austin is
1:30:59like the perfect time zone and it's a
1:31:01perfect travel hub because you're
1:31:02sitting in the center of the country. So
1:31:04I don't have any more like 4hour flights
1:31:06or four and a half hour flights to New
1:31:07York. Everything's just like two and a
1:31:09half hours away now.
1:31:10>> Strong cosine. Let's talk a little bit
1:31:12about personal brand. We talked a bunch
1:31:14off camerara. Obviously, you know, Bloom
1:31:15was built on your wife's platform. She
1:31:18goes, "On maternity leave, you've kind
1:31:20of stepped into personal content. What's
1:31:22the hardest part of that?" Dude, I I
1:31:24cannot believe how hard it is.
1:31:26[laughter]
1:31:26>> It's a lot.
1:31:26>> I cannot believe how hard it is and how
1:31:28much work it is. I I'm blessed to be in
1:31:30a place where I was immediately able to
1:31:32get like a head of my media, who's JJ,
1:31:34is here today and he runs the whole show
1:31:35with me. Shout out to JJ. And everyone
1:31:37on the Bloom team has like I don't know.
1:31:40I don't know.
1:31:42They support me more than I feel like I
1:31:44even deserve. But everyone on the Bloom
1:31:45team who are all like huge social media
1:31:47heads and like on top of culture,
1:31:49they've supported the hell out of me and
1:31:50just want to help me as much as I can
1:31:52with my content and they're hyping me up
1:31:54on a regular basis. But I would say
1:31:56building a personal brand to me is like
1:31:58the rawest form of entrepreneurship.
1:32:02You are the product. So if I'm the CEO
1:32:05of Bloom and it's a 100 person company
1:32:07and I have a bad day, there's 99 people
1:32:09that can make sure Bloom still moves
1:32:10forward. If I have a bad day, as you
1:32:14know, Greg Lav is my handle now. I'm
1:32:16Greg Lecia,
1:32:18then my product is having a bad day. So
1:32:21it's like the level of accountability
1:32:23and like it just it just fires me up
1:32:25like how much the the table stakes. I
1:32:27just love it. I find it like very fun
1:32:30and scary. It's literally every day, all
1:32:32day if you're putting out content on
1:32:33volume.
1:32:34>> Like, I can't be [ __ ] hung over. I
1:32:35could like, you know, be hung over a
1:32:37couple because I know I'm like locked in
1:32:38and I [ __ ] work out and I'm in the
1:32:40gym every day at 5 a.m., but like I like
1:32:41tequila. I like cigars. I'll feel like
1:32:43[ __ ] some days. I got to have a lot less
1:32:46feeling like [ __ ] days now with this
1:32:48personal brand.
1:32:48>> We were just talking off camera. I mean,
1:32:50I think you need to embrace the airplane
1:32:51mode cuz nothing's worse than like
1:32:53>> coming on a podcast like this and
1:32:55someone just blowing a bomb on a text
1:32:56message right before you come on.
1:32:57>> Dude, that would me. That would [ __ ] me
1:32:59up, man. it. Yeah, it's not. Of course,
1:33:01it's not just like physical being in the
1:33:02gutter. Like, not just
1:33:03>> it's way more mental.
1:33:04>> It's way more mental. Like, I just like
1:33:05need to stay in a good mood and I've
1:33:07surrounded myself with people who hype
1:33:08me up like, you know, whether it's of
1:33:10course my wife saying, "Good luck on the
1:33:11podcast right now," or I have Leo with
1:33:12me right now who is still my best friend
1:33:14and lives is still my neighbor in Texas.
1:33:16But, uh, like just making sure he holds
1:33:19back bad news until it's an appropriate
1:33:21time to say it because there's always
1:33:22fires. There's a fire at Bloom every
1:33:24[ __ ] day, right? and like figuring
1:33:26out how to keep everyone in the company
1:33:28in the greatest optimistic creative
1:33:31state at all times really just comes
1:33:33down to like cadence of communication
1:33:35let alone embracing communication.
1:33:38>> I feel like there is people on both
1:33:40sides of the coin and they are very very
1:33:42passionate about their stance where it's
1:33:44like you seem to be someone that you
1:33:46should build in public and you should be
1:33:47creating content as a founder and other
1:33:48people ironically the people that are
1:33:50not creating content as founders. What
1:33:52have you seen like the personal and
1:33:54brand benefit that has come with you
1:33:57putting your name out there, your face
1:33:58out there and talking about everything
1:33:59you're doing?
1:34:00>> You know, it's funny because like I I
1:34:01don't even have 100,000 followers.
1:34:03>> Yeah.
1:34:03>> But the quality of the followers in the
1:34:06sense of like people, the inbound of
1:34:08people who can truly help me move the
1:34:10needle to get closer to my goals has
1:34:12blown me away. And I think it's because
1:34:14there's not a ton of us doing this. So,
1:34:16it's been just like I'm so motivated to
1:34:19continue building these platforms and to
1:34:21continue posting because of the amount
1:34:23of inbound of just like like-minded
1:34:24people from around the world that I've
1:34:26gotten to meet because of it. And it's
1:34:28made me a better dad, a better
1:34:29entrepreneur, a better husband, a better
1:34:31friend just through interactions
1:34:33digitally.
1:34:34>> Yeah, it's so crazy. It's actually
1:34:35ironic. I'm actually going to use the
1:34:37line that you said and kind of I kind of
1:34:39unpacked. content is a very saturated
1:34:41market or from a whites space
1:34:43perspective. the amount of operators
1:34:46that have like a min all you have to do
1:34:49is have like a minimal amount of juice,
1:34:50a minimal amount of brain, a minimum
1:34:51amount of social proofing, have a
1:34:53business that's like real like
1:34:55>> there's so few and there's such a demand
1:34:58for that type of content and like I can
1:35:01think in my head we don't need to go
1:35:02through the names of like sub 10 people
1:35:04in the whole entire world that are
1:35:07putting out consistent content that are
1:35:09males running a real company showing you
1:35:11behind the scenes of what they're doing.
1:35:12I and of course we've all been tricked
1:35:15by every core seller with the rented
1:35:16Lambo, right? And it's like I think
1:35:18we're all just [ __ ] We've been sick
1:35:20of them from day one. And it's like so
1:35:22cool to now see real operators making
1:35:24content and setting the stage or setting
1:35:27the example for the next generation.
1:35:28It's [ __ ] awesome.
1:35:29>> Yeah. I think too we should do a little
1:35:31test. I'm going to ask a bunch of you
1:35:32guys that have been on the pod to do it.
1:35:33Is like I also think that it's a CAC
1:35:35arbitrage. Like the reality is is like
1:35:37when I was in Santa Barbara, like I
1:35:40never was someone that would have bought
1:35:41a Bloom and then I'm like, "Oh, Greg,
1:35:43bought a Bloom."
1:35:43>> Yeah.
1:35:44>> And now you're gonna I'm going to win on
1:35:45LT. You're going to win on LTV on that.
1:35:46So,
1:35:47>> imagine if you were a male
1:35:51influential person at a large retailer
1:35:53who would have never seen my wife's
1:35:55content or would have never seen any of
1:35:56the female influencers who post about
1:35:58Bloom.
1:35:59>> A guy might find my [ __ ] and who who can
1:36:02actually change the trajectory of Bloom.
1:36:04So again, just like what are things you
1:36:05could do to increase your chances of
1:36:07luck? I think building a personal brand
1:36:09is one of the biggest.
1:36:10>> Yeah. Sahil, who was on the episode, has
1:36:12a great book, his his new book coming
1:36:13out eventually is about increasing the
1:36:15surface area for luck. And I feel like
1:36:17what you just said too, it goes back to
1:36:18like the no attri You're doing CPMs, but
1:36:21the no attribution on the influencer.
1:36:23It's just like I know people that have
1:36:25come on the podcast and they've
1:36:26literally found investors cuz people are
1:36:28like, "Oh, I watch the podcast." So
1:36:30investors, bisdev, content. I mean,
1:36:32there's a million different ways that
1:36:33people can come into the funnel.
1:36:34>> I'm not I'm not I don't really have an
1:36:36active portfolio, but like my deal flow
1:36:38is ridiculous now,
1:36:40>> right? Because it's like people want me
1:36:41to get involved in their business. And
1:36:43so I I have to decline 99% of them, but
1:36:45like it's I was like, "Oh, this is how
1:36:47you get deal flow." Cuz I was always
1:36:49surprised like why like brands didn't
1:36:51want me to invest like don't you know
1:36:52what I'm building over here? Right? And
1:36:54I was almost like insecure about my
1:36:55status in society because I was like,
1:36:57"No one has recognized what I've built."
1:36:59And it's like, no, you just start making
1:37:00some content about it. And it's like,
1:37:02oh, no one was recognizing because they
1:37:03didn't [ __ ] know. The tree falls in
1:37:05the forest and no one's around to hear
1:37:06it. Like, you need to shout from the
1:37:07from the rooftops like when you are
1:37:09doing something special because there's
1:37:11so much going on on Instagram and the
1:37:14news outlets that it's like if you don't
1:37:16try to make sure you're heard, no one's
1:37:17going to notice. And some people don't
1:37:18want to be noticed. And shout out to
1:37:20them, but I I don't I have too much
1:37:21insecurity. So, I want people to notice.
1:37:23And so, it's been huge for that. I think
1:37:25regardless of insecurity, ego, whatever
1:37:27anybody has, I just think that dollar
1:37:30for dollar,
1:37:31>> yes,
1:37:32>> it makes sense.
1:37:33>> Yes,
1:37:33>> we'll see how it shakes out.
1:37:34>> Guys, this episode is sponsored by
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1:38:01That's ke.com/open
1:38:04residency. Guys, this is something that
1:38:06I use every single day, non-negotiable.
1:38:09Give it a try. I want to shift a little
1:38:12bit into into leadership. I guess let's
1:38:14just start like super macro. What would
1:38:16you say like is your leadership style?
1:38:19First and foremost, lead by example,
1:38:21right? Like that's the best thing that
1:38:22you can do every single day is just, you
1:38:24know, create create an environment where
1:38:26people and this this goes back to just
1:38:28having an a headquarters in Austin,
1:38:30right? We are not a remote company. I do
1:38:32not operate well on Zoom calls. I
1:38:35unfortunately to my team have had to
1:38:38tailor the entire organization about the
1:38:40environment that I thrive in and I have
1:38:42found people who also thrive in that
1:38:43environment which is like a very as few
1:38:45Zoom calls as possible as often as we
1:38:47can get into a room together with as
1:38:49little technology as possible that's
1:38:51where the creativity has happens. I
1:38:53think everyone in the company it's not
1:38:54just the marketing and the brand team
1:38:56creativity is how people thrive. So, how
1:38:59can I create as a leader an environment
1:39:01where people as creative as possible,
1:39:03right? Whether that just means there's
1:39:05incredibly healthy snacks and tons of
1:39:07caffeine and, you know, lunch every day,
1:39:09you know, provided to the team, but it's
1:39:11also like just an awesome building that
1:39:13we own and we have been able to turn
1:39:15into the Bloom the Bloom house, the
1:39:18Bloom world. And so, people are just
1:39:20constantly coming into our headquarters
1:39:22and being in a state where they can be
1:39:24incredibly creative. It's also a
1:39:25headquarters where I run a podcast
1:39:27studio out of this headquarters. It's
1:39:29called the Pursuit Network. And so we
1:39:30have like really influential people
1:39:32coming in and out of the doors on a on a
1:39:33daily basis. And it's like it's an open
1:39:35door policy at our headquarters. There's
1:39:37other entrepreneurs in Texas that just
1:39:39pick up a desk someday. And it's like
1:39:40you you want that activity. You want
1:39:42those new ideas, those souls coming into
1:39:44the building. And you don't you don't
1:39:46want to you don't want to stale under
1:39:49the the bright white lights type of
1:39:52environment,
1:39:53>> you know, in in your building. I don't
1:39:54want a [ __ ] dentist office. So, I
1:39:57would say leading through example,
1:39:58creating an environment where creativity
1:40:01thrives, but also positive and negative
1:40:03feedback loops. You can't just
1:40:05constantly say the things that you don't
1:40:06like or constantly say the things that
1:40:08you do like. Then there's just infinite
1:40:10options for the for the latter. You need
1:40:12to give positive and negative feedback
1:40:14loops. And I am very pro anger
1:40:18management. You need to control your
1:40:20emotions. In any business scenario,
1:40:22emotions will make you lose the
1:40:25scenario. So, I used to earlier in my
1:40:27career, I thought like writing an email
1:40:29in caps lock was [ __ ] badass and
1:40:31everyone was going to see like how much
1:40:32I how passionate I was about this thing
1:40:34and then it's like, oh, I wrote a caps
1:40:36lock email to the wrong person. And I
1:40:38realized like how much that can [ __ ] up
1:40:41your trajectory. So, I don't know if
1:40:44there's been more than two or three
1:40:45times that I've gotten like angry at a
1:40:48team member. I don't think there's a
1:40:50place for that at least at the Bloom
1:40:52office. Like it is a very
1:40:55lead through positivity and do not lead
1:40:57through fear environment. Yeah. I asked
1:40:59Uncle Leo what he thought about your
1:41:01leadership. He said he tenaciously
1:41:02follows up and questions everything.
1:41:03Always leads with that. Great motivator
1:41:05of people. Always positive. Always
1:41:08optimistic.
1:41:09>> And I and and that
1:41:10>> you guys know each other.
1:41:11>> That's what is that chatbt answer?
1:41:12>> No. That was yesterday when I called
1:41:14him.
1:41:15>> You [ __ ] called him?
1:41:16>> I called him, bro.
1:41:17>> Wow. Yeah, bro.
1:41:18>> Damn.
1:41:19>> Your assistant hooked it up.
1:41:20>> I got a speech at his wedding soon. I'll
1:41:22make sure I I double down on that. But I
1:41:24but I um
1:41:25>> rip them up.
1:41:26>> Yeah, really. They'll be mostly
1:41:27Brazilian and not speaking English, so I
1:41:29can really say whatever I want. And
1:41:30[laughter]
1:41:32>> but yeah, I think dude, these people are
1:41:35my family. Like, we have people who have
1:41:37been with us for the better half of a
1:41:40decade at Bloom who have moved states
1:41:42multiple times with us, which is still
1:41:44blows my mind. There's a few people, a
1:41:46bunch of people that are going to be
1:41:47multi-millionaires that a traditional
1:41:50trajectory for their role would not have
1:41:51made them multi-millionaires because
1:41:53they are at Bloom. And so
1:41:56seeing cool cars in my parking lot that
1:41:58are not mine, nothing fires me up more
1:42:00than that.
1:42:01>> Love that. You run basically 95% female
1:42:04company.
1:42:04>> Yeah.
1:42:05>> Tell me more.
1:42:07>> I I I wish I had intention behind that.
1:42:09I don't. Right. It's like I I try to
1:42:11hire the Bloom the Bloom consumer which
1:42:13happens to be a female. And I think
1:42:17generally speaking, a female thrives,
1:42:19you know, with a brand or a person
1:42:21thrives working on a brand that they are
1:42:22passionate about and that they want to
1:42:24consume. So just the it it's just shaken
1:42:27out that way. Volum is a meritocracy
1:42:29like the hardest worker wins in the
1:42:31room. The one with the greatest output
1:42:32wins in the room and it has just always
1:42:34fallen towards female team almost always
1:42:37fallen towards female team members. It's
1:42:39all I know.
1:42:40>> Yeah. I mean, that's just great simple
1:42:43advice is just hire team members,
1:42:44especially on the creative and brand
1:42:45side that are ICP. What about hiring
1:42:47from like traditional big companies?
1:42:49Have you done that?
1:42:50>> The biggest mistakes in my talent
1:42:52acquisition journey have been trying to
1:42:55hire people from the corporations that I
1:42:58wanted Bloom to be like or like that had
1:43:00already achieved the goals that I wanted
1:43:02Bloom to achieve. So, if somebody were
1:43:04to apply, let's just use Red Bull as an
1:43:06example. were here in California where
1:43:07they're based or LA. Let's just say I
1:43:09wanted to launch an energy drink and I
1:43:11start to get some inbound resumes that
1:43:13say Red Bull on them and I just go, "Oh,
1:43:15wow. They probably know all about the
1:43:18magic that's happening over there. I'm
1:43:19going to expedite their whole their
1:43:22whole interview funnel and just get them
1:43:24in these walls and then we're going to
1:43:25be able to figure out everything that
1:43:26Red Bull's doing." First of all, if a
1:43:28corporation is thousands of people,
1:43:30chances are that one person applied
1:43:32[ __ ] nothing to making that brand
1:43:34special. And what made that brand
1:43:35special probably started 50 years ago,
1:43:37right? So, it's like any time I've
1:43:39expedited the hiring process to try to
1:43:42get the sexy corporation on the resume
1:43:46within the Bloom Walls, I have made a
1:43:48massive mistake. I think the first
1:43:50question that I ask in every interview
1:43:53is, "Name me three brands that you love
1:43:56following on digital and why you think
1:43:57they're crushing it." Like, I just need
1:43:59to make sure that that person gets what
1:44:00the [ __ ] is going on and what we're
1:44:02doing here. And then we just have a
1:44:03conversation about those three brands.
1:44:04And it might be a brand that I've never
1:44:05heard of, but I'll quickly pull it up on
1:44:07social media and see kind of what
1:44:08they're up to. And if they can explain
1:44:10to me why they think they are winning,
1:44:12we can move on to the next question. And
1:44:14that's for anything from an executive
1:44:16assistant to on the brand team.
1:44:19>> I love that. That's great advice that
1:44:20I've never heard. Just what are you
1:44:22consuming?
1:44:22>> Let's just chat about the industry.
1:44:24Let's just chat CPG for 15 minutes.
1:44:26Let's see if you can hold this
1:44:27conversation. Do you get what's going on
1:44:30here?
1:44:32Beginning days and now hunger or talent
1:44:34what are you looking for?
1:44:36>> Beginning days it was absolutely hunger.
1:44:38I definitely did not my my my motto in
1:44:41the beginning days was I don't want
1:44:43anyone brainwashed by brands that are
1:44:45moving at a sloth's pace, right? I
1:44:47wanted people who were right out of
1:44:49college that had no idea how what a
1:44:51normal pace was and you know had no idea
1:44:54about what what
1:44:57>> corporate America
1:44:58>> what corporate America was. And I wanted
1:44:59entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs who just
1:45:01wanted to join a [ __ ] startup
1:45:03culture. And so I was very anti
1:45:06corporate America brainwashed at the
1:45:08time. Now I have an appreciation for
1:45:10people who have seen what perfection
1:45:12looks like. Right now that we're what
1:45:14what has gotten us to 100 million is
1:45:16going to be different than what gets us
1:45:17to a 500 and what is going to be
1:45:19different than what gets us to a
1:45:20billion. And so having people in in the
1:45:23team who have been there before seems to
1:45:27be incredibly valuable at this point
1:45:29because they just know what that looks
1:45:30like. And if I can find somebody who I
1:45:33can take from corporate America who
1:45:37is sick of it and wants to be part of
1:45:39this entrepreneurship journey before
1:45:41it's too late. That now for especially
1:45:44on a leadership level is like my my
1:45:46favorite hires at Bloom. Yeah, I do feel
1:45:48like you guys are in this explosive mode
1:45:50where there's still kind of meat left on
1:45:52the bone where if somebody came on now
1:45:53from a corporate side, like you can
1:45:55still three, five, eight, 10x.
1:45:57>> Yeah, because like it's not like
1:45:59shipping to to retailers, I don't really
1:46:02need like a young entrepreneurship mind.
1:46:03I need someone who's done it before,
1:46:05right? Ordering millions of cans every
1:46:07single day. I need someone who's done it
1:46:09before. But in terms of like the
1:46:10branding and marketing team, I think,
1:46:12and this goes back to like agism and how
1:46:14I feel about experience overall in
1:46:17digital and building a brand, it's like
1:46:19what worked 5 years ago is not going to
1:46:21work today. And so it's almost like your
1:46:23experience is irrelevant to me. And I
1:46:26think that a a 22-year-old who just
1:46:29loves digital is just as worthy as
1:46:32borderline leading a brand department,
1:46:35depending on how many direct reports
1:46:36they have, leading a brand department as
1:46:38a 35-year-old is a seasoned vet. Yeah,
1:46:41that's the thesis of this podcast is
1:46:42getting people that are currently in the
1:46:44arena. I am a student of history and I
1:46:46read tons of biographies and I love to
1:46:48learn about past entrepreneurs, but I
1:46:50feel feel like outside of the
1:46:51fundamental whether it be systems or
1:46:53finance or how to sell a company, those
1:46:56are going to be tried and true forever,
1:46:57but just like
1:46:59Tik Tok shop and AI like Steve Jobs has
1:47:03nothing to tell me about Tik Tok.
1:47:04>> No, I want a 25-year-old for that
1:47:06department. And I would say the finance
1:47:08and supply chain roles, I'm open to
1:47:11remote hires. I'm open to that being
1:47:13around the country, but if it's
1:47:14something that's like directly pointing
1:47:17towards our impact on culture, that
1:47:19needs to be in the Austin headquarters
1:47:21or our LA office.
1:47:23>> Obviously, this influencer machine and
1:47:25army is all in-house. It seems like
1:47:26you're very much so in-house versus
1:47:28agency. Why?
1:47:29>> I would say in the early days of Bloom,
1:47:31we were bootstrapped and we were
1:47:32competing in an era of like CPG brands
1:47:35raising a ton of money. And so they
1:47:36would raise a ton of money, have the
1:47:38pressure to deploy that money, and they
1:47:39would just go sign the the hottest
1:47:41agency at the time with the biggest
1:47:43check because, you know, it was a check
1:47:44that I couldn't even fathom writing out
1:47:46of a bootstrap brand. So I realized
1:47:48early on like the only way we can
1:47:50compete with these brands raising all of
1:47:52this money and deploying the greatest
1:47:54agencies in the world is to build
1:47:56something bootstrapped inhouse that's
1:47:59proprietary to us. And that has just
1:48:01worked for us since day one. And we have
1:48:03continued to rinse and repeat that. I'm
1:48:05very anti- agency. If I hire an agencies
1:48:08for a temporary period of time to learn
1:48:10what they are doing and then build it
1:48:12better inhouse. I mean, we were huge
1:48:14fans of hiring agencies for a short
1:48:17stint or hiring consultants for a short
1:48:19stint and either, you know, in a
1:48:21consultant scenario, potentially hiring
1:48:23them full-time if we think they're a
1:48:24killer. But I love test driving things
1:48:27and learning with different systems, but
1:48:29it has to have a path to building it out
1:48:32inhouse.
1:48:33>> How is it having multi-ity offices?
1:48:34You're the first person on that has
1:48:36that.
1:48:36>> I
1:48:38I've been traveling a little bit too
1:48:39much, especially now with our son. There
1:48:42have been points where I just wanted the
1:48:44best person no matter where they were in
1:48:45the country. And
1:48:47I've regretted it only if there wasn't a
1:48:50path to them moving to Austin or at
1:48:52least moving to LA. Obviously, we had an
1:48:54established LA headquarters and then I
1:48:56moved with a lot of our leadership team
1:48:58to Austin. So, in in this scenario, it
1:49:01just makes sense to have this LA office.
1:49:02Obviously, there's still like a lot of
1:49:04talent agencies and people that we do in
1:49:06person business with in Los Angeles. So,
1:49:08we have probably like 25 people here in
1:49:10LA and I'll get out here at least once a
1:49:11quarter, but I also make sure my main
1:49:14players in LA are in Austin for a couple
1:49:17days almost every single month. So,
1:49:19>> you said something key out there. We
1:49:20actually are just dealing with it. If
1:49:21somebody is remote, making sure you have
1:49:23100% clarity and there's a path for that
1:49:26person to eventually be in person
1:49:27because then you're just wasting
1:49:28everybody's time.
1:49:29>> Yeah. Like I I and and again that's me
1:49:31being selfish because I won't thrive as
1:49:34the CEO, as the leader to that person if
1:49:36it's just through Zoom calls. So like we
1:49:39have some killers in New York that have
1:49:41made sense to be in New York and I also
1:49:43just want an excuse to go to New York
1:49:44once a month, but like we go we all go
1:49:46back and forth to New York and Austin
1:49:47together to at least have in-person time
1:49:49twice a month.
1:49:51>> Makes sense. Yeah, I could tell you're
1:49:53an inerson type guy.
1:49:54>> Yeah.
1:49:54>> To close up hiring and firing, what are
1:49:56some of the big lessons you've learned
1:49:57over the years? You get some great
1:49:58advice. The interview question I think
1:50:00is so simplistic in nature and it's
1:50:02amazing just like what are the brands
1:50:03you're consuming and why? Who do you
1:50:04think is winning? I love that. What have
1:50:06you learned over the last I don't know
1:50:07seven, eight years on just hiring and
1:50:08firing? Anything big that you can pass
1:50:10on to the young generation?
1:50:11>> You need to hire entrepreneurs and to me
1:50:15an entrepreneur is somebody who truly
1:50:17just wants to better themsel at all
1:50:19costs and they are they they treat
1:50:21themselves as their own company. So that
1:50:23person first and foremost wants
1:50:25responsibility and wants ownership. They
1:50:27would rather a harder job that they can
1:50:29own and put their name on than an easy
1:50:32clock in clockout responsibility. I
1:50:34don't want anyone who's a nineto-fiver
1:50:36clocking in clocking out and just wants
1:50:37the easier task. But it's also somebody
1:50:39who because they are obsessed with
1:50:42self-development and improving their
1:50:44skills. When the business grows, and
1:50:47we've had to do this many times, when
1:50:49the business grows, if somebody's a
1:50:50leader in a department and they are no
1:50:52longer the right person to be a leader
1:50:54in their that department, but they are
1:50:56talented, they are excited about the
1:50:59idea of me bringing in somebody on top
1:51:01of them. And that has been I've been
1:51:04shocked at the feedback that I've been
1:51:05able to get from 99% of our team members
1:51:07when I say, "Hey, I need to put somebody
1:51:09on top of you who's been here before,
1:51:11who I think is higher qualified for
1:51:12where we're going." And every time they
1:51:15go, please I would love that like I can
1:51:17learn from them.
1:51:18>> Those are killers that say that they
1:51:19have the growth mindset and they have
1:51:21the wrong game 100%. And they just want
1:51:23they treat themselves as a company and
1:51:24they know that's what's best for
1:51:25themselves and they want what's the best
1:51:27for Bloom.
1:51:28>> I love that. Yeah. Curious and growth
1:51:30mindset people that are on their own
1:51:32time
1:51:32>> which is crazy because like you would
1:51:33think like the average human ego would
1:51:35say like I just want to show on LinkedIn
1:51:37that I lead this department,
1:51:39>> right?
1:51:39>> Yeah. I don't think I don't think we
1:51:40live in that world anymore. Skills
1:51:42economy.
1:51:42>> Yeah.
1:51:43>> LinkedIn. LinkedIn's done. Looking back,
1:51:44what's the one thing you've kind of
1:51:46learned about yourself as a leader in
1:51:48the last year? Let's just say everybody
1:51:51who directly reports to me at this point
1:51:54at Bloom and in the last couple years is
1:51:56better than me at that vertical,
1:52:00which in turn means that I am the worst
1:52:03person on the leadership team at any at
1:52:06any person specific vertical. Right? So
1:52:12generally I am not the right person to
1:52:14make a decision on a specific topic. I
1:52:16have somebody who's better than me at
1:52:18that specific topic. My job at the as
1:52:20the leader is to make sure they are in
1:52:21an environment where they can thrive. So
1:52:25I'm more than happy to make sure we have
1:52:27a beautiful catered lunch. It can get as
1:52:28simple as that. I'm more than happy to
1:52:30make sure like I have a personal therapy
1:52:32session with that person to make sure
1:52:33they feel heard and that communication
1:52:35is healthy and there's no drama within
1:52:38the team which is very rare at Bloom. So
1:52:40just making sure that I am letting the
1:52:42top tier talent that we've been able to
1:52:44acquire thrive is my job now as the CEO.
1:52:48It is not necessarily
1:52:50impacting small decisions of the
1:52:51day-to-day.
1:52:54>> It's a good answer.
1:52:55>> Okay.
1:52:55>> No ego. That's you weren't thinking that
1:52:57like two years ago.
1:52:58>> No. No. I used to well I probably was
1:53:00one of the best people on the entire
1:53:02team, right? Because I was only able to
1:53:04hire people in the beginning who were
1:53:05worse than me.
1:53:06>> Yeah.
1:53:06>> And so I was just able to delegate most
1:53:08of my tasks to that person to free up
1:53:10some of my mind share. But at this point
1:53:12it's like everyone on the leadership
1:53:14team is truly better than me at their
1:53:16vertical. Like way better. Yeah. I feel
1:53:19like hiring the right people, setting
1:53:20the vision, making sure the lights are
1:53:21on, that's your job.
1:53:23>> All right, last little thing before we
1:53:24get into Quick Strike. You told me this
1:53:26yesterday. This [ __ ] was mindblowing.
1:53:29What happened with the cartel? What h
1:53:30what happened what what happened on a on
1:53:32Christmas day in 2022. Give us give us
1:53:34the whole entire story.
1:53:35>> All right. So, I mentioned I mentioned
1:53:37not going to Christmas for like four or
1:53:38five years.
1:53:39>> Yeah.
1:53:39>> And then the first year that we could go
1:53:41back for Christmas.
1:53:43>> It's beautiful moment, right? Like Mari
1:53:44and I are with our family. It's
1:53:46Christmas Day. This might have been like
1:53:47one of the first real Levecia
1:53:50Christmases that my wife could enjoy.
1:53:51And like my Italian Christmas is [ __ ]
1:53:53hysterical. Like there's more ricotta
1:53:55than there is water on the table. And so
1:53:58so you know I get a call we're halfway
1:54:00through Christmas that four 18-wheelers
1:54:03full of greens product. This is still
1:54:05when we were bootstrap brand. We had no
1:54:07strategic partners. Like this was all
1:54:08going to fall on me. Four 18-wheers of
1:54:11greens product were headed to our number
1:54:12one retailer or what was going to be our
1:54:14number one retailer for a January 1st
1:54:16launch. And so that means that we now
1:54:18had four days to figure that out cuz
1:54:20it's supposed to be at the stores in 4
1:54:21days. And we had no idea where three and
1:54:25a half million dollars worth of product
1:54:27were sitting. And that was our cost,
1:54:28which was a astronomical amount of money
1:54:30for me at the time. I think we were able
1:54:33to locate one of the trucks, which was
1:54:35great. We recovered that product, but
1:54:37there were still three trucks out into
1:54:38the out into the wilderness, out into
1:54:39the dark abyss, and we see a random
1:54:43third party seller pop up on Amazon 2
1:54:45days later. And my head of Amazon, who's
1:54:47a [ __ ] savage, orders the product and
1:54:50realizes, "Yeah, this was the product
1:54:51that was that was specifically made for
1:54:53that retailer. We know that this is not
1:54:55supposed to be sold on Amazon or
1:54:56anywhere else. This is the stolen
1:54:57goods." We get them kicked off of
1:55:00Amazon. Shout out to Amazon for handling
1:55:01this with us. It pops up the next day.
1:55:04It's under a person's name. It was like
1:55:06Raul something. And
1:55:08>> damn, Raul's a gangster. Real name. He
1:55:10put he because because his company got
1:55:12kicked off. He probably didn't think
1:55:13anything of it. So, he just started
1:55:14selling it under his real name with an
1:55:16address. The address is 10 miles from
1:55:20our headquarters in Los Angeles. my head
1:55:22of Amazon, Alex, in his his bright red
1:55:27C63 AMG Mercedes, and drives over to
1:55:30this this warehouse, which is just an
1:55:34opened chainlink fence block, you know,
1:55:37around the perimeter, no ceiling on top,
1:55:40just tarp on top of product. and he's
1:55:42looking through the fence and he sees
1:55:44Clorox bottles, you know, Ninja
1:55:46blenders, protein powders from Orane,
1:55:48Bloom Green, all this clearly stolen CPG
1:55:51products that he's selling on Amazon.
1:55:54And this [ __ ] psycho climbs the fence
1:55:56with his iPhone and starts filming all
1:55:58of these products and he's going and
1:56:00he's like, you know, reporting back your
1:56:02guy. And I didn't even ask him to go, by
1:56:04the way. I didn't ask him to go. I
1:56:06actually like probably realized this
1:56:07once he had already once I'll tell you
1:56:09once I realized. So,
1:56:12>> doesn't sound safe.
1:56:12>> So, he's leaving the warehouse and he's
1:56:14sitting in his car and this badass
1:56:18pickup truck, as he explains it, pulls
1:56:19up to behind him with the license plate,
1:56:21Raul, and comes up to the window and
1:56:24goes, "Who the [ __ ] are you?" And my
1:56:25head of Amazon goes, "I'm the guy you
1:56:27just stole our [ __ ] from." And like
1:56:29skirts off in his AMG. This is like so
1:56:31funny if you know who I'm talking about.
1:56:32>> Well, did you did you go Did he go
1:56:34straight this? Is he putting on like a
1:56:35bulletproof vest or something? This is
1:56:36This is risky.
1:56:37>> This is insanely risky. And by the way,
1:56:39we end up looking up this guy's address
1:56:40on Google Maps and it was like a $4
1:56:41million house in Orange County. There's
1:56:43like a Porsche in the driveway of this
1:56:45guy had been running this operation for
1:56:46a minute. We look up his [ __ ]
1:56:48fugitive record and he had been to jail
1:56:50many times for like, you know, violent
1:56:51assault, like the whole deal. And
1:56:54>> he gets into a car chase with this guy,
1:56:56ends up escaping. Shout out to the AMGs.
1:56:58And and gets back to the headquarters
1:57:00and is just and just we had just
1:57:02uncovered like, you know, this $3
1:57:04million of product that massive ring.
1:57:06This is like
1:57:06>> a massive ring. a massive ring. To be
1:57:09completely transparent, the California
1:57:10law enforcement was incredibly unhelpful
1:57:12with this situation. In fact, like
1:57:14>> not surprising,
1:57:15>> did not even respond to our calls, end
1:57:17up needing to get, you know, national
1:57:19FBI involved.
1:57:20>> What do you do? You call 911 and then
1:57:22you
1:57:22>> Yeah, you just keep on calling until you
1:57:24like meet a guy who knows someone at the
1:57:25FBI and that's who ends up helping you.
1:57:27And of course, this ended up taking
1:57:28months. So, he was able to like clean up
1:57:30half of the operation by the time we
1:57:31were able to have a sting. But anyway,
1:57:33dude, this was like this just like sums
1:57:35up like the one chance we could finally
1:57:37go back to the holidays with the family.
1:57:38Like there's a massive cartel operation,
1:57:40you know, abusing our Amazon.
1:57:42>> It's all on you, bro. All the
1:57:43responsibilities on you.
1:57:44>> Yeah.
1:57:44>> Drop of a hat. What happened with the
1:57:46retailer?
1:57:48>> They they should understand.
1:57:49>> Come on, baby.
1:57:50>> Dude, they should, but they shouldn't,
1:57:52right? Like, we should have made Yeah.
1:57:55Like I I'm really objective with that
1:57:56stuff. And so Yeah. Now we always
1:57:58overproduce and they were super [ __ ]
1:58:01pissed.
1:58:02Damn,
1:58:04I don't even know what to say to that.
1:58:06This is this is a very real thing. This
1:58:07is why third party sellers, especially
1:58:09on consumables, on e-commerce channels,
1:58:11is like a super high-risisk thing. Like
1:58:13you don't know where it necessarily
1:58:14came, which is why like we're very proud
1:58:16now to own the seller relationships with
1:58:19these businesses. Like our energy drink,
1:58:21we sell directly to Amazon and they sell
1:58:23it on Amazon and so we own that
1:58:25relationship.
1:58:27>> No middleman. Love it. I'm going to fire
1:58:29away tons and tons of questions here
1:58:31with Quickstrike. Brace yourself. Your
1:58:34son, 3 months old, Kai, what's the uh
1:58:37thing about fatherhood that caught you
1:58:39off guard? I I've never felt like
1:58:41there's not enough time in the day more
1:58:43than there's right now. I'm trying to
1:58:44chip away at just my sleep hours and
1:58:47hopefully give those hours to Kai. But
1:58:50it's been incredible, man. And it's
1:58:51completely changed how I think about
1:58:53everything that I'm building and working
1:58:55on. I I I realized quickly that
1:58:59what I am going to pass down to him, the
1:59:02the any type of like monetary pass down
1:59:05will almost serve him no justice and
1:59:07potentially be a disservice to him. And
1:59:11the greatest thing that I can try to do
1:59:12is just one lead by example and be the
1:59:15man that he has memories seeing on how
1:59:17to be a man. But
1:59:19the the wisdom and lessons that I can
1:59:21make sure he experiences in his life are
1:59:23like the greatest inheritance that I can
1:59:25ever ever build. So prior to having a
1:59:27son, like I was obsessed with the idea
1:59:28of like leaving this massive trust to my
1:59:30offspring and like that's how I'll make
1:59:32sure we're generation proof. And it's
1:59:34like [ __ ] that. All these rich kids are
1:59:35are [ __ ] So it's like I [laughter]
1:59:37got to I got to make sure all I pass
1:59:38down is is is wisdom and lessons and an
1:59:40example.
1:59:42Love it. Most expensive thing you own
1:59:44that you actually use every day?
1:59:46[laughter]
1:59:46that you use every day?
1:59:48>> Yeah, every day. I mean, my house is
1:59:50[ __ ] I think I think my I have a
1:59:52Mercedes that's like a little It's
1:59:54probably 750,000 that I drive at least
1:59:56every week.
1:59:57>> Yeah,
1:59:58>> it's life flex.
1:59:59>> Yeah, [laughter]
2:00:00750.
2:00:01>> Yeah, but dude, I bought it for less and
2:00:02it's been going it's been going crazy on
2:00:04the market, but I'm an [ __ ] and I
2:00:06modified the hell out of it. So, I don't
2:00:07know if that ruined the value, but I but
2:00:09what's crazy is like the value was like
2:00:11a million before it hit 5,000 miles on
2:00:13the odometer. And the other day on my
2:00:15way to work, I passed 5,000 miles and I
2:00:17was like, "Wow, that was a $100,000
2:00:18drive to work."
2:00:21>> I just had a lot of fun negotiating for
2:00:23for my car lease right now. Do you know
2:00:24about like the the lease swapping? Do
2:00:26you know about that game? Are you
2:00:27>> If you're a year in and you can just
2:00:29like upgrade your car,
2:00:30>> my buddy told me about this. I'm done
2:00:32with the traditional leases. Like you
2:00:34could just go on someone could have 15
2:00:36months left and just hit them with like
2:00:38a 50% off lowball. They're going to come
2:00:40back in a month later and you just
2:00:42>> because they get the commission for
2:00:43those transactions.
2:00:44>> No, no. I'm talking about you're going
2:00:45to the end user. Like you have a car and
2:00:47there's 18 months left on your lease and
2:00:49I just go to you and it's $1,000 a
2:00:50month. You say, "Hey, $500. Let me take
2:00:51over the rest. 500 a month."
2:00:52>> Wow.
2:00:53>> Yeah. I was thought I was flexing cuz I
2:00:54had this whole like massive negotiation
2:00:56with Mercedes and I absolutely love
2:00:58that. And my friend's like, "Yo, you're
2:00:59sleeping." Cuz he's had like 15 cars the
2:01:01last five years. Yeah.
2:01:02>> I'm like, "What is this racket that
2:01:03you're running?" Yeah. He just keeps
2:01:04getting like new BMWs and stuff,
2:01:06>> dude. [ __ ] yeah. I think, you know,
2:01:08going back to like the monetary [ __ ]
2:01:10First of all, entrepreneurship is worth
2:01:12it. Like money is freedom. There is no
2:01:14doubt about it. Like you are going to be
2:01:15able to do all of the things that
2:01:17everyone said that you can't do, which
2:01:18is kind of like sums up my whole life.
2:01:19It's like I [ __ ] hate hated when
2:01:21someone would tell me no. If I'm at a
2:01:22restaurant and I'm ordering I mean Leo
2:01:24can vouch for this. If I'm at a
2:01:25restaurant and I'm ordering all of the
2:01:26dishes that I want, which is generally
2:01:28several dishes, [laughter]
2:01:29and the waiter is like, "You've ordered
2:01:31enough." And I'll I'll I'll want to
2:01:33leave the restaurant. I won't. But like
2:01:35that will that will like properly
2:01:36trigger me. I hate when someone tells me
2:01:39no or that I've done enough or that like
2:01:41that's excessive.
2:01:41>> You've done enough to be able to be be
2:01:44excessive. [laughter]
2:01:45And so I think money being freedom has
2:01:48been the, you know, the greatest unlock
2:01:50that it is. But like, you know, the the
2:01:52best memories that I have with my wife
2:01:54with travel are not any five-star hotel.
2:01:57It's like literally us in a camper van.
2:01:59And so the reality is is the funnest
2:02:01things in life are like borderline
2:02:04national parks like are [ __ ] free and
2:02:08money is fun and awesome but the biggest
2:02:10unlock is the freedom that it gives you
2:02:12and entrepreneurship is very much worth
2:02:15that goal. The freedom.
2:02:18>> I agree. What's your benchmarks?
2:02:21>> 3 380 on a good day based off of a test
2:02:24I did a couple weeks ago. On a good day
2:02:26I tore this.
2:02:26>> We're gonna pop up some shreddy on that.
2:02:28This guy does crazy crazy pull-ups with
2:02:30the [ __ ]
2:02:30>> try.
2:02:31>> I'm pretty nice on pull-ups, but I see
2:02:33you're doing like 40 lb weights.
2:02:34>> Dude, I love the weighted pull-up. I
2:02:36have I don't have any.
2:02:37>> What's your max with no weights?
2:02:39>> On a on a good day, I can get 25 real
2:02:41pull-ups. Like good pull-ups.
2:02:42>> I'm high teens.
2:02:43>> Yeah, you got me,
2:02:44>> dude. Breaking 20 was hard.
2:02:46>> Breaking 20 was hard. I would say, dude,
2:02:47fitness has been like everything for me.
2:02:49Like, it is just like just because of
2:02:50the routine and discipline that you need
2:02:52to have like in your It's 24/7.
2:02:54>> Yeah.
2:02:54>> Right. So it's like you need it's not
2:02:56just the workout, it's the meals you get
2:02:57in, it's the recovery you get after. So
2:02:59it's like me bringing those lessons over
2:03:01to entrepreneurship I think has been
2:03:03huge for my entrepreneurship. And it's
2:03:05like dude, I was so young starting this
2:03:07journey that I couldn't walk in as some
2:03:10like ungroomed fat 25year-old. Why would
2:03:14anyone take me seriously? I didn't even
2:03:15have like a product that was really
2:03:16scaling yet. So, it's like if I wanted
2:03:18to enter a room and demand respect, I
2:03:20had to at least beat that more
2:03:22successful person in fitness and in
2:03:24health and have something over them,
2:03:26right? So, I think it it got me a long
2:03:28way in terms of like the the initial
2:03:30reaction that people would give me when
2:03:32I would enter a room. And it's it's, you
2:03:34know, I don't have as much time for it
2:03:35anymore or as as much as I did, but it's
2:03:38still a huge passion of mine.
2:03:40>> You're doing okay here. Yeah. I'm not a
2:03:41huge I like some of his stuff. Her mozzy
2:03:44his advice always younger people is just
2:03:45get jacked first.
2:03:46>> And I wish I would have started earlier
2:03:48to have better muscle muscle memory cuz
2:03:49I had to put in like a long a long time
2:03:52in like my early 30s to just get a base.
2:03:54So starting early is definitely worth
2:03:56it.
2:03:56>> Dude, getting jacked as your first goal.
2:03:58It doesn't take that long and I think
2:04:00that's great advice. I'm also going back
2:04:02to like pride has ruined the greatest
2:04:04men I know. Science is [ __ ] awesome
2:04:06these days and there's a lot of guys
2:04:08that are afraid to hop on TRT or afraid
2:04:10to hop on the peptides or afraid to use
2:04:12the best supplements and it's like these
2:04:14things are [ __ ] awesome now. Like I
2:04:16want to feel so [ __ ] good every day
2:04:19and science is allowing that. It's been
2:04:22it's been incredible.
2:04:23>> What's the secret sauce? Give us a
2:04:24secret peptide.
2:04:25>> Dude, I run my TRT as you know anyone
2:04:27else can. and I had to come off to have
2:04:28the baby which was miserable but love
2:04:30love my TRT and then dude I'll take BPC
2:04:33BPC57 MC I'll take
2:04:38TA1 for my immune system sometimes kind
2:04:40of overreacts to some foods I don't know
2:04:42I I'll dabble with whatever is kind of
2:04:44like you know my goals at the time but
2:04:46I'm always changing them up I don't like
2:04:47run the same thing forever
2:04:48>> personal question for me I was thinking
2:04:50about potentially going a little micro
2:04:52dose on test but then I'm going to have
2:04:53to around the corner I'm going to have
2:04:55babies
2:04:55>> freeze that [ __ ]
2:04:56>> freeze first and then just rock the
2:04:58test.
2:04:59>> Dude, freeze sperm or my wife and I
2:05:01ended up needing to do IVF, which is
2:05:02really cool cuz now we have like more
2:05:04embryos frozen that are already
2:05:05fertilized. But what we did when our
2:05:07baby was born was we took her placenta
2:05:10and I ran it out of the hospital to my
2:05:12executive assistant in the parking lot
2:05:14at 2:00 a.m. in the morning and she gave
2:05:16it to a courier who drove it to Houston
2:05:18and brought it to like this stem cell
2:05:21exoome lab. And now we have a Creole
2:05:24freezer, which also has my sperm just in
2:05:27case. But a creole freezer full of like
2:05:30top tier DNA one:1 match stem cells and
2:05:34exoomes that we've been able to get like
2:05:36IV drips. I'll like put it in my hair to
2:05:38make sure my hair is not falling out.
2:05:40Like I'll I'll vape that [ __ ] Like it's
2:05:42it's pretty crazy, bro.
2:05:44>> Stem cells are cool.
2:05:45>> How bad was the come down on having to
2:05:47get off test to do that? And what what
2:05:49was that window? And could you like
2:05:50fully not function? Like what was it
2:05:51like? This is for the guys out there.
2:05:52This is some this is some free game.
2:05:54>> It was 8 to 12 months. And the general
2:05:56protocol is you come off for me for us
2:05:58to have a baby, right? I was able to get
2:06:00the sperm back probably in 4 to 6 months
2:06:03at a quality level. And by the way, like
2:06:05when you don't have sperm, like you're
2:06:06still like you're still ejaculating, you
2:06:08know what I mean? Like, so you don't
2:06:09know if you don't have sperm. It's not
2:06:10like you're just like dry busting.
2:06:13[laughter] So
2:06:13>> I just took a sperm test with somebody
2:06:14called Fellow.
2:06:15>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've done
2:06:17[ __ ]
2:06:17>> Shout out Fellow, baby. That's a good
2:06:19one. Crazy. which is, you know,
2:06:21hilarious, you know, transactional
2:06:24jerkoff that you get to go experience,
2:06:25but you you it took probably four to six
2:06:29months to get the quality sperm back and
2:06:31then cuz I had zero, right, when I was
2:06:32running test
2:06:33>> and then
2:06:36>> the protocol that's generally given to
2:06:38people is cheap and it's easy and it
2:06:40works. It's hCG and Clomid. That's what
2:06:42every doctor gives you. I was able to
2:06:44get kind of this new more expensive
2:06:46trial thing called RFSH
2:06:49and then I paired that with the HCG. I
2:06:52didn't do Clomid and dude my test was
2:06:54still like
2:06:56750. Like my test was fine. It felt like
2:06:59more volatile.
2:07:01>> Yeah, it felt like more of I mean now
2:07:02I'm like, you know, over 1500. But
2:07:04>> you serious?
2:07:04>> Yeah, I'll keep it high, bro.
2:07:05>> Damn.
2:07:06>> I'll keep it high. But the
2:07:08>> the the volatility was definitely there.
2:07:11didn't feel like I was taking
2:07:12testosterone, but like I didn't feel
2:07:14like total dog [ __ ]
2:07:16>> you know?
2:07:17>> Yeah. So, check out RFSH. I think that's
2:07:20what it's called.
2:07:21>> What's up, guys? If you guys got this
2:07:22far in the episode, I would assume that
2:07:24you enjoyed it. If you got any value, it
2:07:26would mean the world if you hit the
2:07:28subscribe button, give it a like, post a
2:07:30comment, [music] tell a friend. We could
2:07:31keep going bigger, bigger guests, bigger
2:07:33locations, more value. See you in the
2:07:36next episode.

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