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Holocaust & Auschwitz Survivor, Eva Schloss | Full Address | Oxford Union — Transcript

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0:04[Music]
0:15thank you very much for this wonderful
0:16reception
0:18um
0:19i'm very happy to be here that is the
0:22first time this year that i'm speaking
0:25to a live audience so i'm very pleased
0:28about that as you can imagine and i'm
0:30sure you too because it zooms so it is
0:33okay but this is of course much better
0:36if you can see your audience and you can
0:38see the speaker
0:40live
0:41anyway
0:43it's a long story
0:44that's why i have
0:47asked a bit more longer times than
0:49necessary usually
0:52i was
0:53born in austria vienna
0:55used to be the capital before the first
0:58world war of a huge empire
1:01and the kaiser still wanted austria so
1:04it was much much smaller after the first
1:06world war he wanted still to have
1:10vienna as a capital a real capital of
1:13europe and it really was
1:16i was born in 1929
1:19in a very variant that was very
1:21important in a very big loving family i
1:24had an older brother
1:27grandparents aunts uncle really extended
1:30family
1:31and it was a wonderful life we were not
1:34rich but very comfortable up and at that
1:38time there were many many
1:40girls in the country who wanted a job in
1:44vienna so practically every household
1:47had somebody to help in the household
1:50which was very nice there was somebody
1:53who did sewing somebody did some washing
1:55somebody did the shopping so my mother
1:58was really
2:00just occupied with the children
2:02this is something that now is of course
2:05unfortunately missing
2:07because a lot of both parents work and
2:10the children are very often left on
2:12their own
2:13but at that time and austria has a good
2:16climate beautiful warm summers where we
2:19went usually
2:21to the lakes
2:22and the winters over snow
2:25and we were all very into sport skiing
2:29it wasn't like now i'm sure some of you
2:32go skiing at that time you had a skin on
2:36the on your ski and you spent the time
2:39walking up the mountain till about lunch
2:41time and then you did one descent
2:45so um really much more effort than what
2:48you do now going on ski lifts
2:51but you know we were very very happy
2:54but it didn't last
2:56because in
2:581938 in april
3:01hitler
3:03without asking permission
3:05just marched into austria
3:08we were a jewish family but not
3:11particularly
3:13[Music]
3:14religionist religious
3:16but in austria you had to belong to a
3:19community if you were christian you had
3:22to register at the church you had to pay
3:25a tax to the church if you were jewish
3:28you had to register with a synagogue and
3:31as well pay attention
3:33so at the school
3:35on education religious education was
3:39compulsory
3:40and so the jewish children were called
3:42out of their classes since they were
3:44about seven in my class and we had twice
3:48a week jewish history
3:50the old testament a bit of hebrew jewish
3:54songs
3:55and so
3:56it was very hard very good teachers and
4:00so we told our parents especially my
4:03brother he wants to do shabbat
4:06and
4:07pass over the jewish holidays
4:09and our parents did it to please us
4:12and it was really very nice even for the
4:15parents
4:16so
4:17and then one day it all finished just
4:20from one day to the next
4:23um
4:24hitler marched in
4:26and suddenly even our neighbors our
4:28friends stood in the streets with
4:30swastika flags with a hitler salute
4:34and
4:35of course the jewish people watched
4:37through the windows very scared because
4:40in 1938
4:42we knew already what has happened in
4:44germany
4:46at that time
4:47many many jewish people were already
4:50deported into poland into different
4:53ghettos
4:54so we didn't know what was going to
4:57happen
4:58but i went to school
5:00like like every day in the morning and
5:03when i went home usually on my way home
5:06i played with my
5:07best friend
5:09who was a christian girl and when the
5:12mother saw me coming
5:13she looked with such hatred at me
5:16and said we never want to see you here
5:19again and she slams the door in my face
5:23i went home crying and i said to my
5:26mother i don't understand we didn't have
5:28a quarrel
5:29and my mother said well for jewish
5:31people life is going to be very
5:33difficult
5:35my brother who was 12 years old
5:38came home
5:39he looked terrible his face was all
5:43full of blood his clothes were torn
5:46and my parents said hence what happened
5:48to what have you done
5:50and he started to cry and he said my own
5:53friends did that and the teachers just
5:55watched it happening
5:58you can imagine
6:00we were in shock
6:01so the only solution was to leave the
6:04country but that was really the problem
6:08my father actually did
6:10he had inherited from his father a big
6:12shoe factory
6:14and he had business with holland
6:16reservoirs as well a big shoe industry
6:19and he left i think after two three days
6:23he just walked over the border and six
6:26and went into holland
6:28but
6:29and he said i will see
6:32as soon as i have somewhere for you to
6:34live for so we'll except for you but by
6:37that time
6:38the borders were closed
6:40this was really the whole problem of the
6:42holocaust because no country not after
6:46standing 38 wanted to take any jewish
6:49people
6:51and
6:52you know
6:54president roosevelt had a conference in
6:571936 already
7:00for all the european countries in france
7:03in avion
7:05and
7:06people had to come and say how many
7:08jewish peoples they still want to take
7:10in
7:11and nobody wanted any
7:14so you can can imagine it was very very
7:17very sad and the germans knew that so
7:20they took their time to start to deport
7:23the jews
7:24into ghettos but then they started to
7:27build death camps
7:29but anyway we were very very lucky in
7:331939 we were able to get a visa to
7:38belgium
7:39so we went to belgium my mother my
7:42brother and me and the belgian people
7:45didn't really want any refugees i was
7:48put into the class i didn't understand
7:51any french nobody took any notice i was
7:54ignored when somebody talked to me i
7:57didn't understand
7:59so you know i felt really really bad i
8:02used to be a very happy child but they
8:05became really very
8:08drawn into myself i didn't know anymore
8:11what is going on in this world
8:13and then in 1940 the pop as the second
8:17world war started hitler marched into
8:19poland and england and france declared
8:22war
8:23and my father tried desperately to get
8:26visas for us to come to holland
8:29and
8:29in 1940
8:31[Music]
8:32he got a visa in february 1940 a visa
8:36for us to visit him for three months in
8:40holland
8:41so my father took a furnished apartment
8:44because we were not able to take
8:46anything out of austria we had nothing
8:49just a few clothes
8:50and so a furnished apartment on the
8:53merveda plan if ever you visit holland
8:56go and look there it's still there
8:59and
9:00so where modern was a modern part of
9:02amsterdam amsterdam had been growing was
9:05kind of in a triangle and on the one end
9:08was a big skyscraper
9:1011 floors high the biggest building in
9:13amsterdam at the time
9:15and so the apartments were on this side
9:18but of course there were no gardens
9:20and so all the children there were lots
9:23of children dutch children german
9:25refugee children as well some
9:28and all came to play out in this big
9:30open square in the middle
9:33and one day a little girl came to me and
9:36introduced herself and you'll be
9:38surprised her name was anna frank
9:42because the frank family had left
9:44already of germany frankfurt in 1933
9:49later her father otto who became my
9:52stepfather always told us
9:56when he saw the nazis walking through
9:59the street
10:00i'm singing a very nazi song
10:03when jewish blood drips from our knives
10:07things is going to go be good again
10:11he realized this is not a country where
10:14he wanted to bring in up our
10:17his two dwells
10:18so they left for holland he had some
10:21connections there and he started the
10:24business there
10:27and
10:28and we settled down
10:31in belgium it's a two language country
10:33flemish and french and so i did
10:36understand a little bit of that so i was
10:38not completely lost because i had
10:41learned a bit of flemish
10:43but still
10:45but you know i made friends and i looked
10:47really dutch blue and blonde eyes now my
10:50hair is white but i was very blonde
10:53and um so everybody said you look just
10:56like a dutch girl i got a bicycle and i
10:59was very very good at sport and we
11:02played the game always on the square
11:04like rounders and as i was so good i was
11:07always picked so i settled down i made
11:09some friends and i thought life is going
11:12to be fine but it wasn't
11:16because in may so after a few months we
11:19were supposed to leave end of may to
11:21belgium again
11:22hitler marched into holland as well
11:26and the war was quite different than the
11:28first world war the first time in this
11:31war
11:32there was a bombing of a civilian city
11:35rotterdam
11:36[Music]
11:37ten thousand casualties
11:40the royal family escaped
11:43and so that was not very
11:45encouraging for the dutch people
11:48and um the bombing and the germans said
11:51if you are not going to capitulate we
11:53are going to bomb all your cities
11:56of course the ducks had to give up
11:59so we still tried to go to the harbour
12:02to find the boat to escape
12:05but it was too late
12:07so we went back to the apartment and
12:09thought well we'll see what happens now
12:12and the dads were very very good very
12:14friendly they said
12:17don't worry we are going to protect you
12:20and
12:21form the big resistance movement by the
12:24way all the occupant country because
12:27after holland
12:28hitler went to belgium
12:30then to france
12:33which capitulated as well in the 40s
12:35already and then to greece
12:38and to norway and denmark so by end 1940
12:43practically the whole of europe was
12:46under the nazis
12:48under hitler unbelievable and hitler was
12:51really a nobody
12:53but somehow here it is amazing it's very
12:57interesting to study how something like
13:00this was possible
13:02so
13:03and then slowly the measures against
13:05jewish people started to come as well
13:08we had the curfew we were not allowed at
13:11eight o'clock
13:13in the evening
13:14we were not allowed to go to cinemas or
13:17theaters
13:18like in south africa
13:20we were not allowed to sit on banks
13:23that was
13:24only for christians
13:26and became difficult but not
13:28life-threatening
13:30but then again slowly we were a yellow
13:32star so everybody knew when you walked
13:35in the street said you were a jew
13:39so and people started to disappear
13:43so
13:45especially men were picked up in the
13:47street
13:48and young man as well friends of my
13:50brother he was 16 at that time
13:53disappeared as well
13:55and so it became really
13:57very very unpleasant then we had to go
14:00to jewish schools by itself that's quite
14:03all right
14:04but the nazis came there because there
14:06were a lot of young people
14:08when we had the truck go out the truck
14:11and the children were never ever seen
14:13again
14:14the parents went in the evening to the
14:17police to find out where as a children
14:20no answer
14:22so after the war only after the war did
14:25we hear they were sent to mount houston
14:29don't be thrown down from the cliffs
14:31there
14:32so you can imagine it was
14:35not anymore proper life for anybody
14:39but there were still a lot of people who
14:41were to work against the nazis you know
14:44the one that didn't want to be occupied
14:46non-jewish people
14:47and they always said we'll help you and
14:49so on
14:50so in
14:52in 1942 so after two years occupation
14:56about 10 000 young people
14:58all of you would have been called up if
15:00you were jewish
15:02to report with a backpacker that gave a
15:05list to be deported to germany to work
15:09in german factories
15:12well a lot of parents said well all the
15:14german men are fighting in the war
15:17because russia was already in the war by
15:19then so perhaps they really need people
15:22to work and to censor children
15:25youngsters 20 year old 19 year old
15:29and of course they were never hurt again
15:31and again later after the war we heard
15:34they were murdered in mauthausen
15:37but my father my brother hands with 16
15:40godzis as well
15:42and he called us together one evening
15:44and he said
15:46hence you are not going we are going to
15:48go into hiding
15:51and i said hiding adults don't hide
15:55and my father said
15:57well we have found some wonderful dutch
16:00people
16:02who risks their life to keep us safe
16:06but i didn't find an apartment at people
16:09who could take in four people
16:12so we have to split up
16:14i will go with booty with my mom and
16:17hands will go with him
16:18and i started to cry
16:20because i was very very close to my
16:23brother and my father
16:25so and my father said if we are in two
16:28places
16:30the chance
16:31that two of us will survive is bigger
16:35survive
16:37so with 13 i started to be really scared
16:42i realized
16:43i might lose my life
16:46so you can imagine it was a big
16:49goodbye and we separated and we went to
16:52our addresses
16:54and the germans knew perhaps from the 10
16:57000 perhaps 4 000 didn't come so where
17:00are they since we really wanted to get
17:03every jew
17:05so they did house searches
17:08and always at night
17:10there was a knock on the door
17:12and everybody just had to open the door
17:14to them let the nazis in and search
17:17their homes
17:18so in every hiding place we had a hidden
17:21place within the heideck place
17:24again the people from the resistance
17:26looked over their apartment
17:28and said well we can make a false
17:31partition here or under there or so so
17:34when the knock comes you quickly go
17:36there and hide
17:39but you know when this happened nearly
17:41every week
17:42the people who were our hosts said we
17:45can't sleep anymore we are scared and of
17:47course the people who hit jews were
17:49taken away as well
17:51so we had to move perhaps six seven
17:54times in the two years we were hiding
17:58and my father and brothers the same
18:01so in 1944 in may 1944
18:05after nearly two years in hiding
18:08my father phoned my mother he was in the
18:10country at the time with my brother
18:13and said
18:14the woman where we are staying is
18:16blackmailing us for more money
18:19but you know if you don't work if you
18:22don't earn we had some saving but he
18:24said the money is running out and then
18:27if you have no money she shows up out
18:29anyway
18:30so can you and we were in amsterdam can
18:33you find us a new hiding place
18:36which was already difficult in 44
18:40but eventually my mother heard from a
18:42dutch nurse who had a house and she
18:45would take my father and brother
18:48cut cuts is a bit short
18:51but it turned out she was a double agent
18:54but i was so miserable not visiting my
18:58father and brother and that was a well
19:00living then
19:02going to live was just around the corner
19:04where we were
19:06and so we went to visits and when they
19:08moved there and on sunday on settlers on
19:12a sunday and on tuesday
19:1511th may was my 15th birthday
19:18and we sat down to a
19:20special breakfast the landlady had kept
19:23an
19:24egg because food was very rationed and
19:27we were just sitting down and there was
19:29a knock on the door
19:31and the nazis stormed in
19:34and took us away
19:36later i heard that the nurse who offered
19:40the good hiding place to my father and
19:42brother was a double agent
19:45she had in her house always new people
19:49always
19:50called the nazis people were taken away
19:53and she offered the house to new people
19:56two more than 200 people were arrested
19:59in her place and sent to their deaths
20:02and after the war she got only four
20:05years
20:07but anyway so we were arrested and taken
20:10to a holding camp
20:12and
20:13within a few days we were put already on
20:16a list
20:17to
20:18be deported to the east
20:21i'm sure you've seen pictures cattle
20:23trucks it's like a container it's a
20:26metal
20:27thing
20:28um with no windows nothing in it just
20:32metal sliding doors and that was the way
20:35they transported people to their desks
20:39they didn't tell you where we were going
20:41so there are over 300
20:44desk camps in germany in poland
20:47the bbc
20:49they reported because where we were
20:51hiding
20:52usually people who were working for
20:55these people who were for the resistance
20:57they had a little bakery radio you were
21:00not allowed to listen to foreign radio
21:03only to dutch and german
21:05but people did and the bbc said
21:08broadcast out to all the occupied
21:11countries in their own language
21:14and the dutch was always at eight
21:16o'clock
21:18and
21:19so we did listen
21:21and they always mentioned the progress
21:23the war was ruining because in 44 it
21:26looked already as if hitler was going to
21:28lose the war so that was good news but
21:32they always told
21:34for jewish people
21:35definitely not to go voluntarily if you
21:39get an offer of a job not to go
21:42to germany or anywhere in poland because
21:45there are over 300 death camps
21:49in germany and poland
21:51and auschwitz is the biggest
21:54that jewish people
21:56are systematically being guessed
21:59there was no secret for the world
22:04so but of course we didn't know where we
22:06were going and it did need people to
22:09work in the factories because in russia
22:12the war was already going very badly for
22:15the germans so a lot of german soldiers
22:18had died they needed more people to go
22:20in the army they needed people to work
22:23in the factories that was true but
22:26anyway
22:27so we went and the train didn't tell us
22:30where we were going and my brother just
22:33have to tell you a little bit about him
22:36he was a wonderful older brother
22:39he was very very talented he wasn't
22:41interested in sport he was interested in
22:44art
22:45and he was a wonderful pianist
22:48and he wrote poetry
22:50and
22:51in hiding
22:53of course he couldn't play any music so
22:55he started to paint
22:58and he created some amazing artwork
23:02and in the cattle track the last
23:05conversation i had with him
23:08was
23:10if evie he said to me if i don't come
23:13back
23:14before we left the house from the woman
23:16who blackmailed us we hit the paintings
23:19under the floorboard
23:21so if i don't come back please pick
23:24those pictures up because they are very
23:27very valuable for me
23:29and i said but of course you will make
23:31it of course we both pick it up he said
23:34but promise me that you will go and pick
23:36it up
23:37so of course i did
23:39and
23:40so after a terrible terrible journey
23:43that was by the way the last
23:44conversation i had with my brother
23:48about a terrible terrible journey we
23:50didn't get any water any food it was
23:52made was very hot
23:54people fainted
23:56the train stopped and we realized we
23:58were in auschwitz
24:01so that was of course very very bad news
24:05but you know we just couldn't
24:08no way you could escape you couldn't do
24:10anything you were caught
24:14so
24:15eventually we jumped out
24:17and then
24:18there was big chaos we saw all those you
24:21might have seen pictures
24:22people into kind of we called it striped
24:25pajamas
24:27that was a kind of a uniform in
24:29auschwitz
24:31pets as well caps and his
24:34jackets and trousers
24:36and
24:37those were the inmates and they run
24:39around as well a lot of alsatian dogs
24:43lots of nazis
24:45and
24:46then we had to say goodbye to the men
24:49folk because
24:50that was auschwitz i don't know if
24:53anybody of you has been visiting there
24:55because it has become a big tourist
24:59many many millions of people from all
25:02over the world go and have a look
25:06so there was beer canals it was a
25:08women's camp at auschwitz was a men's
25:10camp
25:11and then as well monoway and a few
25:14others where there were work camps
25:17and so we were at that time the train
25:19was in beer canal and so we the men had
25:23to walk to auschwitz and we had to say
25:25goodbye to them
25:27so you can imagine how sad this was my
25:30father has told you he was not really
25:33religious
25:34but he took me by their hands and looked
25:36at me with such love and such despair
25:39and he said god will protect you
25:42that is something i remember so clearly
25:45because you know he never spoke about
25:47god
25:48but now he he couldn't look after me
25:51anymore so
25:53he hoped god will look after me and
25:55actually he did
25:58and so they masked away and then we had
26:01to go and stand in rows of five was
26:03always five in the long run
26:06the pictures of this a german took
26:08pictures of everything and that makes me
26:10so cos
26:11that deny
26:13the holocaust i mean there are millions
26:15of pictures taken by germans themselves
26:18and still they say not everybody of
26:21course they say it it never happened
26:23it's just a fantasy of the jews
26:27anyway unfortunately it is all very true
26:30so um
26:31[Music]
26:32first selection has taken place dr
26:35mengele a proper medical man
26:39around might have been around 40 years
26:42old quite good looking
26:44very very beautifully dressed nice
26:47uniform polished booth white gloves and
26:50a little stick in his hand like a
26:52conductor
26:54and he looked you over just of a
26:57fraction of a second
26:58and decided right or left
27:02life or death
27:05of course
27:06every
27:07baby
27:08young children and all the people it was
27:12not the age how you looked if you had
27:14had a very bad journey in the cattle
27:17track you might have been sick
27:20and your bad perhaps 40 years old you
27:22went to the wrong side
27:24if a mother had a young baby on her arm
27:28but she was a young woman she had to
27:30give it to an older woman and the mother
27:33run after it no you go this way the baby
27:35and the woman goes that way so even that
27:38even families couldn't stay together
27:41and this was my first miracle my mother
27:45we i had still the dresser was was
27:48arrested in but my mother got in the
27:51holding camp from a kind person a head
27:54and coat
27:56and my mother said to me
27:58wear this
28:00and i didn't want to wear it it was big
28:02and it was hot
28:03my mother said well perhaps it can come
28:06in handy later
28:08and this head had a big rim
28:11and so when mengele looked at me in a
28:13fraction of a second
28:15i didn't really see how young i was
28:18so i was 15 and i passed
28:22there were girls in our transport who
28:24were 18 who didn't pass
28:28so after this so we lost about half our
28:31women folks and men we didn't know they
28:33went a different side
28:36so um
28:37and then when this was finished we had
28:40heard it it was outside the camp at the
28:42railway
28:44platforms
28:46we heard it always quickly trick into a
28:49huge barrack
28:51the next command undress completely
28:54naked
28:55and the nazis were standing there poking
28:58with their guns at us
29:00and laughing at our embarrassment
29:02then we had to go in front of a table
29:06had to give all the age which country
29:09you came from what profession you had
29:11all kinds of things
29:13then they told you now you're going to
29:15be tattooed with a number like an animal
29:19and if ever we want you we're going to
29:21be called out you'll be called out by
29:23the number
29:25you're not anymore human being
29:28and then all our hair was shaved
29:30so it took all many many many hours
29:34and then we were let out
29:36still naked
29:38and we passed a huge heap of clothes and
29:40we were thrown one garment
29:43it could have been
29:44a dressing gown or with the coat
29:48no underwear
29:50and the next place two shoes
29:53could just be of course was never a pair
29:55could have been a sandal and a boot that
29:58was all what you had
30:00and then everything was always quick
30:02quick quick
30:03we ran in our barracks
30:06this very long barrack about the size of
30:09this hole with bunks on both sides three
30:12high
30:13just wood nothing in it no straw no
30:16pillow nothing
30:17and this is
30:19they said this is where you're going to
30:20stay as long as you live it won't be
30:23long anyway
30:25so
30:26this was our life from now on in the
30:29morning very early we were called out
30:32we had to have a roll call we had to
30:34stand for two hours and the whole campus
30:38counted then we got our breakfast with a
30:41mug of liquid
30:43then we were taken to work
30:45from early morning till late at night
30:48no toilet break no food break nothing
30:52and then in the evening again two hours
30:56standing
30:57and it was counted against the whole
30:59camp and then we got a big chunk of
31:02bread that was all we got to eat
31:05well how long can you work the whole day
31:07with so little food
31:09and then of course in the bags there
31:11were lice and rats
31:14and bed bugs
31:15so after
31:17a few days we were already scratching we
31:19had open wounds we became
31:22full with gnars which got infected from
31:25the dirt
31:26washing forget washing we never washed
31:30toilet once a day
31:32the whole group was let out to big holes
31:36so as well terrible
31:38and then there were selections
31:42so i think
31:43it was about i miss out of course a lot
31:46because a lot of things happen
31:48but um
31:49once a week we had the shower
31:52to and we were the last because we are
31:54feeling full of lies
31:57and we passed
31:59after the shower we came out naked and
32:02just took mangala
32:04and the selection was taking place he
32:06was picking out the people who looked
32:09too weak to work still
32:12and i passed and my mother who was
32:15following me
32:17he looked
32:18on another time she had to turn around
32:21and then he sent her to the wrong side
32:24with 40 other women of our dutch
32:27transport
32:29and those naked women walked out
32:32and i saw that lost my mother
32:36this was for me
32:38the most horrible time to be all on my
32:41own i was still only 15 years old a lot
32:45of the dutch people had gone to
32:47different places didn't know anybody
32:50and it was
32:52you know and it was winter became winter
32:55i had sometimes i lost my shoe in the
32:58snow i had frostbite on my toes there
33:02were open toes with blood one night the
33:04rat came to suck the blood from my foot
33:09and i thought i can't make it i'm i will
33:12give it a give up i just i just have no
33:15strengths anymore i probably will lose
33:18my lose my toes
33:20if it's cold that infected was very
33:22painful and i was we worked inside at
33:26the time
33:27we had to make plats for hand grenades
33:30to sew hand grenades
33:32and
33:33i said well i just can't carry on
33:36and i was called out and i thought well
33:39that's it now
33:40and i go outside
33:42and another miracle happened my father
33:45stood there
33:47i still don't know how he managed
33:51but of course we fell in his other's
33:53arms and he said and i asked how his
33:56hands he said he's okay
33:58and then he asked me
34:00where is moody mom
34:03and i burst into tears
34:05and i said she has been selected she has
34:08been gassed
34:10so i saw in front of my face my father
34:13was such a strong person
34:16nearly nearly collapsed
34:18but he got his strengths back again and
34:20he said hold on evie it's not going to
34:23be long it was perhaps october november
34:26the russians are soon coming the germans
34:29are losing the war hence it's okay will
34:32be the three of us still together
34:35and
34:36please please don't give up
34:38so it helped me again a little bit
34:41and then the next miracle happened
34:45the nazis started to disappear
34:49because obviously zen knew the russians
34:51were very near
34:53and
34:55you know there was a b c camp always
34:58with electrified barbed wire
35:00and um but that was still in the camp
35:03you couldn't go out of this from the
35:05whole thing but you could go from one
35:07camp to the other camp and the people
35:09were moved around
35:11and so they
35:14some
35:14even the guards had fled because they
35:17knew the russians were near
35:19and so sometimes we worked sometimes we
35:22didn't work and so i walked around see
35:24if i could find any food perhaps on the
35:27floor or even a bit of sugar perhaps
35:30and um
35:32women from our dutch transport had been
35:34a different barrack um
35:37saw me and they came to me and said amy
35:40we have seen your mother
35:42and i said well thank you for trying to
35:45cheer me up but i know it's not true
35:48and they said yes yes yes yes in this
35:50and this is barack
35:52and i didn't want to believe it he's
35:54ever tried to go there one day when the
35:56gates are open
35:58and i did
36:00and indeed she was there
36:03and
36:04you know again a miracle it happened
36:07this is quite a long story i can't
36:09really go because i'm getting over my
36:12time
36:13but you know a few of those
36:16i can really only call it miracles that
36:18happen that she was saved
36:22and so we that we could stay together
36:25because there was no supervision
36:27and the nazis disappeared
36:30every day there was no work so but many
36:34people staffed because there was no food
36:37and it was very very cold and
36:41one day
36:42i walked around again
36:44and the seats again the huge creature of
36:47her and from the distance it looked like
36:50it was a bear
36:52but when i looked closer i realized it
36:55was a human being a russian soldier
37:00and he came in the camp there were some
37:02polish prisoners as well they could
37:04speak to him and he said he's a scout to
37:07find out if the army has to fight or if
37:10she can just advance he had no idea
37:13there was a camp there
37:15and he said he's going to report back
37:18and the army will come and they will
37:20look after us
37:22but in the meantime i must say that is
37:25again one of the most horrendous
37:28experience i had
37:30and i
37:31have for many many many years had
37:34nightmares about it many many people
37:36died of course still from weakness from
37:39illness
37:41and
37:42we had to take them out of the bag
37:44couldn't bury them because there was so
37:46much snow
37:48but we had to heap them up in front of
37:51the barrack and i was still one of the
37:53strongest with another polish robe and
37:56so that was one of my tasks
37:59and i remember the day before i still
38:02spoke to the woman and now i had to
38:04carry her out we couldn't even close her
38:07eyelids because it was frozen
38:11so you can imagine
38:13it was a terrible terrible situation
38:17and then the russians came
38:20and that was of course wonderful the
38:22states at night they cooked
38:25wonderful soups
38:27cabbage soup very very greasy they gave
38:30us big metal balls as much as we wanted
38:33and we eight and eight and eight and
38:35eight
38:36but i've never spent a more painful
38:39night on a bucket because the food went
38:41straight through me
38:44but in the morning many people had died
38:47because the body just didn't have some
38:51strength to digest his food
38:54and then they left again
38:56and we were left on our own again
38:59and then i decided with another french
39:02woman i would go to auschwitzman camp to
39:06see if my father and brother is there
39:09but
39:10we did
39:11and
39:12the russian had made their headquarters
39:14because auschwitz was a much more solid
39:17kind of buildings
39:19and
39:20we didn't care what i was doing there so
39:23they just let me go and i went all over
39:26and i came across a man who looked a bit
39:29familiar
39:31and but he looked very very bad and i
39:33just went to him and i said i think i
39:36know you have he met somewhere
39:38and he said otto frank and his father
39:41your playmate
39:43i said yes yes of course i remember
39:46have you seen my father or my brother he
39:48said yes sir so we're here but you went
39:52with the nazis
39:53because i told you the nazis were
39:55deporting people
39:57because they didn't want them to be
39:59freed by the russians so they
40:02left
40:03after the war those were called the
40:05death marchers
40:07because you can imagine in mid winter
40:09those weak people probably without any
40:12food had to
40:14march from poland into
40:16germany or austria and of course most
40:20people didn't make it
40:22so but still i thought that my father is
40:25such a strong man perhaps he made his
40:27all right
40:28and otto foster asked me about his girls
40:32but i had never seen them this was so
40:35much bigger than you imagine those camps
40:39so and then the russians
40:41didn't really know what to do with us we
40:43didn't know what to do
40:45but they were still fighting all in this
40:47area and so they decided eventually
40:50they will take us away from there and we
40:53will travel east
40:56where it's safe
40:57and so we traveled so that was from end
41:00of january till i think beginning of
41:03february we were still in auschwitz but
41:06then we traveled with the russian
41:08eastward
41:10till may
41:12can you imagine
41:13i'm still in the same kind of train as a
41:16german transporter does
41:18but they were open they had a stove in
41:21the middle and that we stopped there
41:23were no toilets here we had to go down
41:26on the road to
41:27when the train stopped
41:29and
41:30very primitive but the russian fed us i
41:34must say there was no waves it was very
41:36very good
41:38and
41:39eventually
41:40we ended up in odessa
41:43and that is when we
41:45heard the end of the war
41:48so that was of course wonderful but we
41:51still we were in odessa in russia we had
41:54no money we had nothing
41:56how are we ever going to get back to the
41:59to the west
42:01so it was again mystery we didn't know
42:04and they said well we registered because
42:07we're italians friends
42:09hungarians all kind of nationalities we
42:12have to register where we want to go so
42:16we had hope obviously they're trying to
42:19do something with us
42:21and eventually a new zealand troop
42:24transport ship came
42:26and we traveled back to the west
42:29along the mediterranean that was in may
42:32end of may june
42:34and there was a lovely journey and it
42:36was the first time
42:38that we were human beings again we ate a
42:42tablecloth with proper cutlery we had
42:45sheets on our beds
42:47and
42:48you know we started to become more like
42:50human beings again
42:53and then eventually
42:55we ended up in marseille
42:57and then we had to wait till we could
42:59back into hollard because the rivers who
43:02went to the sea the bridges were
43:05not repaired so the trains were not
43:07going so in june we ended back up in
43:10holland
43:12so we were traveling from
43:15february till june till we got back to
43:18holland and there we waited for news of
43:20our family
43:22we put upwards in the paper we went
43:24around to people to find out
43:26if they had seen them if they knew
43:28anything and from germany from the camps
43:31came people as well all the time it was
43:34an otto frank looked as well for his
43:36wife and his girls
43:39and it was food rationing there was
43:42still no clothes we had still nothing it
43:44was still very very difficult
43:47and
43:48eventually we got that note from the red
43:51course
43:53very
43:54you know not sympathetic to tell you
43:57that your husband my mother your husband
44:00and your son perished in mauthausen
44:03several days
44:05before the american army came to
44:07liberate that camp
44:11well that was the last store
44:14nearly would have made it
44:16but she didn't make it and i didn't want
44:18to believe it
44:20i said it's impossibles i can't know
44:22that
44:23and so each time a [ __ ] stopped outside
44:26the door and rushed there and said it
44:29must be coming because the people came
44:32from germany from all over
44:34took a long time till everybody was back
44:37some people were ill in germany and it
44:39took long till they came
44:41and
44:42and this was for me really
44:45much worse even than the camp
44:47because i just couldn't accept
44:50that i will never see my father and
44:52brother again
44:54that was really really extremely hard i
44:57became very depressed
45:00i
45:00found a note
45:02my mother had kept in 1st of january
45:051946
45:08life without my family is useless i
45:11would really like to commit suicide
45:14can you imagine to survive the camp and
45:16then not wanting to live
45:19i had nightmares
45:21and the funny thing is
45:23my mother and me we both suffered
45:26terribly
45:27but we never spoke about it we just
45:29couldn't
45:31so and daughter frank came as well to
45:34tell us that his whole family had died
45:37and of course he got the diary
45:40and then i said to my mother
45:42what about hansa's painting we have to
45:44go and find some which we did
45:48and
45:49i've got some
45:51a few years ago i donated them to the
45:54resistance museum in amsterdam it's a
45:56big museum their resistance you know
45:58there was a lot of resistance workers
46:01many were killed as well
46:03but um they took the pictures and have a
46:07story about our life our family's life
46:10so if ever you go to amsterdam visit
46:13resistance museum
46:15and
46:16i went back to school so i didn't want
46:19to make friends i was
46:21always on my own
46:23and
46:24when i was
46:25nearly finished with school otto came to
46:28our house very of my mother helped him
46:31with the diary and he helped my mother
46:34to find a job she had never worked
46:36before
46:37and so she took two people in as long as
46:41so it was you know it was a very very
46:44very sad hard time
46:46every night i had the nightmare my
46:48mother always came and
46:50sat with me but we didn't speak you know
46:53if he would have speak spoken how sad we
46:56were how we can't cope we didn't that is
47:00very
47:00funny really but we just couldn't
47:03openly speak about it
47:06and
47:07otto was very helpful he who had lost
47:11everything he had no hatred and i was
47:13full and full of hate
47:15and otto said to me you know when you
47:18hate the people you hate they don't
47:20suffer but you suffer and i said yes i
47:23suffer but i just hate
47:25and so he tried me to get back to normal
47:29and
47:30after i finished school i didn't know
47:33what to do and otto and my mother
47:35decided i should become a photographer
47:38and i didn't really care
47:41and and but i was very miserable in
47:43amsterdam so it's a lovely city now when
47:46i go there i said why didn't i like it
47:49but i didn't
47:50and so otto found me a job in london at
47:53the studio
47:55for a year
47:56and i came to london that was in 1951
48:01well london was in a terrible state
48:05all bombed out food rationing
48:09people were very very poor
48:11um
48:12there's also bomb sites
48:16it was it was
48:18much more depressing than in holland
48:21and
48:22but you know it was a free county and
48:25they were all helpful and they were
48:27going to build up the country again and
48:30i really liked it
48:32and i lived in a boarding house where a
48:34young man who had come from israel to
48:37study economics
48:39and
48:40we didn't really know anybody it was
48:43difficult to make friends at the time
48:45with english people from this boarding
48:47house
48:48and
48:49at work of course i met young people it
48:51was a very nice studio at robert place
48:55and
48:56[Music]
48:57then one day he said to me if i fall in
48:59love with you
49:01when i finished studying he worked and
49:03studied
49:05he studied economics at the school of
49:07economics
49:08and he was very clever
49:10and
49:12he's so
49:14i'd like to bury you and then we can go
49:17and start a new life in israel
49:20um it was already israel of course then
49:23and i said no thank you
49:25i hadn't talked
49:28[Music]
49:29i hadn't told him
49:32why i was in england i hadn't told him i
49:34was in a camp we didn't talk about it he
49:37told me he was an israeli which he
49:40wasn't he was really a german jewish
49:42refugee and i said i was dutch which i
49:46wasn't
49:47and
49:48you know we didn't we couldn't talk
49:50about ourselves what we had suffered
49:53because he had suffered a lot as well
49:56and
49:57then otto frank who had a bit of
49:59business in london as well he came to
50:01visit me
50:02kept an eye on me a bit he was very very
50:05helpful very good to be
50:07and i told him this young man has asked
50:10me to marry him but of course i said no
50:13because
50:14i couldn't imagine i would leave my
50:17mother i was very very close to my
50:19mother
50:20and so
50:22i told him i said no
50:24and then he got a bit embarrassed and he
50:26said well your mother and me have fallen
50:29in love as well
50:31and once you get settled we like to get
50:33married
50:34so when back i went back to this young
50:37man and said well you can marry me now
50:42which he was very happy to do
50:44and um so we did we didn't know anybody
50:47in england so we went in 1953
50:51we went to holland and got married and i
50:54said i don't want to go to israel i'd
50:57been already in vienna in belgium in
51:00holland in england i don't want to start
51:02another language another country
51:05so we decided we would stay in london
51:08and that's where i'm still are
51:10and
51:11we have three daughters and five
51:13grandchildren
51:15but the last ma lost my husband
51:18four years ago but we were married for
51:2163 years
51:23so so we didn't really know each other
51:26at all
51:27i was very much
51:35um i was very much surprised who he
51:38really was after i married him you know
51:41and um
51:42so you know we had a good gamble of this
51:46and i didn't speak i had nightmares i
51:49had all kinds of nervous illnesses
51:52but i never spoke about not to my
51:54children not to my husband
51:56only in
51:571986
51:59so after good 40 years
52:02and on a frank exhibition came from
52:04holland
52:05to england
52:07and
52:08of course my mother was still alive otto
52:10had died already he was 17 years older
52:13than my mother but it was a wonderful
52:16marriage
52:17and
52:19this exhibition came and of course we
52:21were invited
52:23ken livingstone who organized it
52:26and he said to me there was like this a
52:29hall with about 200 people and a
52:32platform is a table
52:34and he said come and sit with us at the
52:36head table and that's not okay i'll do
52:39that
52:40and after everybody had spoken are
52:42important it is because till then one
52:44didn't really learn much about holocaust
52:46yet
52:48it's important to learn about the
52:51history what has happened
52:53and so there were several speakers and
52:56then in the end he said and now evil we
52:58want to tell you something
53:01well i really wanted to hide under the
53:03table i was a very shy person never
53:07spoken about my experience and suddenly
53:10there were 200 people looking at me
53:13expecting me to open up
53:16so i just i didn't know what to say but
53:20then eventually
53:21the floodgates opened and i couldn't
53:24stop anymore but that must have been a
53:27bit this a bit sad the bits is you know
53:30but this was for me
53:32really a watershed from then on i could
53:35speak about it
53:37and over the exhibition traveled all
53:39over england and she always asked me to
53:42open it
53:44first asked my husband to write a speech
53:46to me which i read very badly
53:49but eventually i found my voice
53:52and then people said well you have such
53:54an interesting story you should really
53:57write
53:58about it
53:59and this is what i did and this is my
54:02first book ever story which we have
54:05brought some copies
54:07and
54:08yeah and then i've decided and i was
54:12actually always asked to speak about it
54:15so i've traveled the world i've been in
54:18china i've been in japan i've been in
54:20australia
54:22america nearly all the states
54:26south africa
54:27to tell my story but not just to tell
54:30the story and this is really my message
54:34now to all of you
54:36we realize the world hasn't learned
54:39there's still so much
54:41racism discrimination hatred
54:44and this is really something which has
54:47to stop
54:48my husband always used to say this is
54:51just one race a human race we are all
54:54equal there's nobody better than anybody
54:57else
54:58and as well says
55:00with so many refugees again just so many
55:03countries in war so many countries and
55:06poverty
55:07you know we have to
55:09speak now here to a very very clever
55:12audience
55:13some of you will go in poor parliaments
55:16some will be having important jobs
55:19please please please try to change the
55:21world try to make people understand
55:25that hatred and discrimination is not
55:28something we want to tolerate anymore
55:31we
55:31have given a beautiful planet we have
55:34beautiful flowers we have beautiful
55:37seas we have beautiful countries
55:40please let's live in harmony in love
55:43and everyth in america in l.a
55:46one of the richest city in the world
55:48there's a whole
55:50part of the
55:51of the city where thousands thousand
55:54thousand thousand people live in tents
55:57um with nothing
56:00you know and next to it you have the big
56:02skyscrapers with millionaires living
56:05there you know that is not acceptable
56:07anymore there's enough for everybody to
56:10share
56:11and even in london very often you see
56:14people at them at that in the church
56:17though hours or spending the night that
56:20is that is really not in the 20th
56:23century it is not something we should
56:26tolerate anymore so please please it is
56:29not just my story but remember what i
56:32told you and when you are in a job
56:36please try to help people and
56:39try to change the world for everybody to
56:42have a wonderful life on this earth
56:45this is really very very necessary for
56:48everybody we don't want all these
56:51terrible prejudices and people being
56:53killed in america and in england every
56:55day people get shot why because they're
56:59black or because
57:01i don't know why so this that is not
57:04acceptable everybody got their life has
57:06a right to live with life to the fullest
57:09thank you very very very much
57:31you

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