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High-quality Audio | Christopher Watts' Prison Interview — Transcript

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0:01je he's
0:04com
0:08he hey Chris Chris do you remember
0:12us uh yes yes
0:19see they uh get every two months
0:24just bu pretty much everything off and
0:28all that so trying to think did you
0:31last time they have like a little single
0:33blade razor so I just kind of you know
0:35like go past it double you're just kind
0:36of do the best you can huh just gotta go
0:39with that yeah how are you doing I'm
0:42okaying about you guys good good I I did
0:45not expect to see this that's for sure
0:48surprise yeah well let me put some fear
0:50aside um we're not here for what you
0:53might think we might be here for well
0:55they they didn't know what this this a
0:57computer on I was like I didn't know how
0:58a computer room without
1:01computers
1:02exactly so you remember um I talked to
1:05you Tammy talked to you Dave talked to
1:07you we're all Colorado um and so the
1:11last time we talked to you was a
1:12different situation right um our
1:14investigation was open and your case was
1:15open um that's completely different now
1:18so your case is completely closed
1:21nothing about what we're going to talk
1:22about today is has anything to do with
1:24an open investigation so we're not here
1:27to get more charges on you or
1:30get any statements from you that are
1:32going to jam you up anymore right that's
1:34all done so all of our cases are closed
1:37and the core cases closed so there's
1:39nothing that we're going to talk about
1:40today that's going to get you to any
1:41type of more trouble at all um and so
1:45that's how I wanted to make sure you
1:46knew that's not why we're here okay um
1:49but why we are here so um so three of us
1:53work from three different agencies right
1:56quite a bit different um CBI FBI and
1:58Frederick different goals and um the
2:02things that happened with you kind of
2:04all brought us together and as the
2:06months have passed on since everything
2:08happened we just keep in touch with each
2:10other we keep talking to each other and
2:12we've all separately kind of said um did
2:16Chris seem unique to you me and Tammy
2:19have talked about this Dave and I have
2:20talked about this did Chris's situation
2:22seem different to you and we keep having
2:25that conversation we can't quite put our
2:26finger on it right um we think that your
2:30life leading up to all the things that
2:32happened uh were very interesting to us
2:34and for me personally I don't know if
2:37you remember but one of the last things
2:38you told me was hey Graham I'm sorry
2:40that I started lying to you um and that
2:42stuck with me for the last couple months
2:44it's been riged in my head right um I've
2:47never ever worked a case like this where
2:49someone went at ever um you know and so
2:52as I walked away I thought Chris is
2:55different Chris is a little bit unique
2:57in that regard um so in talking with
3:01Tammy and talking with Dave um I said
3:04you know what did you feel like when it
3:06all went down when we were there we were
3:07talking to you guys and we all kind of
3:10in our own different way and in our own
3:11different wording said it all happened a
3:13bit too quick for us right um so we saw
3:16you last we were talking and talking and
3:18talking um about your family about your
3:21parents about everyone and then the next
3:23thing you know for me and Tammy and for
3:25Dave all of a sudden some Patrol
3:26officers came in and arrested um and
3:29that way was Far quicker than we had
3:31hoped it would happen um and you
3:33understand why that happened and we
3:34understand why that happened but it left
3:36us with a thousand questions that we
3:37didn't get to ask um and then even more
3:40importantly I think it probably left you
3:42with a thousand things that you didn't
3:44get to talk about us I don't know if you
3:46feel that way or not but um and so
3:49that's why we're here today um we wanted
3:51to kind of talk to you a little bit more
3:53about everything you know um I think
3:57there's a lot of things that you didn't
3:58get to talk about um and
4:02so you know that's why we're here
4:07um and it sticks with me that to this
4:10day there's not one person that's told
4:12me I saw it coming I knew Chris was like
4:15that I knew it not one person so it's
4:19just it's it's interesting to me right
4:21not not one um so we want to talk a
4:24little bit about that some of the people
4:26that we work with uh your family shenan
4:30family um have said you know if you get
4:33to talk to Chris would you tell him
4:34something things for so we have that to
4:36talk about today and it's good I think
4:37you'll like it I think it will give you
4:38some closure um and so really that's why
4:41we're
4:43here are you available to talk to us
4:45yeah definitely okay all
4:48right so off the bat if you have any
4:50questions just tell us okay if there's
4:53something that you don't want to talk
4:55about that's okay um would I press you a
4:58little bit okay we might say well do you
5:01mind if we just maybe then ask one
5:02question um if something makes you
5:04uncomfortable to STS um if we need to
5:06take any B breaks take bath andom
5:08breaks uh you know for anything like
5:11that and we'll take bath and breaks and
5:12water breaks ourselves too um so then is
5:17there anything about your schedule today
5:18that makes it that you can't talk to us
5:21no that this there's like a pass for
5:23this and the am and the
5:25PM yeah they reserve the room the whole
5:27day just that's just what they do okay I
5:30didn't know was like 2 second or
5:31something I think you have to go back
5:33for lunch to get um counted for or
5:35something accounted for yeah I think
5:371130 like 11
5:4111 so in general how is it here it's a
5:45lot different Colorado is it bad that's
5:48better I think because I mean it's here
5:51I'm actually around other people me
5:53Colorado it was just like I was
5:55segregated and it was like pounding on
5:57the walls on the ier just
6:00from other people oh really they're just
6:02telling me like how I should kill myself
6:04like what they're going to do to me just
6:06like my it was today this this is a lot
6:09different cuz I mean people here don't
6:11seem
6:12to it's not they don't care but it's
6:15just kind of like they they don't take
6:17they don't like judge you as soon as you
6:19walk in it was like they they knew why I
6:21was there and they just that was it they
6:23just like they just they had one second
6:26me it would have been really they
6:30yeah must be out then I of out of like
6:34what kind of jail I don't know how what
6:36it was like in you know doc there but
6:39you know they had to lock down the jail
6:41for me to walk down the hallway wow it
6:43will so they had to make sure you were
6:45completely separated from anyone else
6:48jeez like I couldn't I didn't see
6:50anybody else there like I was I was
6:52still next to somebody but like I never
6:54saw them you just hear them I didn't
6:57know who you were um
7:00I don't know I just um they they make
7:04phone calls in there too okay and they
7:05got the newspaper in there before I got
7:08in that got in there so
7:10yeah how was uh have you been able to
7:13talk with family oh like we get uh from
7:176:00 p.m. to 7:30 that's our our my unit
7:20time out so we get used that point
7:23really and do they charge you for it or
7:25oh it's just like it's like secures or
7:27something okay and how do you make money
7:29to pay for that um they put U money on
7:32the phone oh so if I call like if I was
7:35like a doll somebody's number they have
7:36to have like a phone account set up oh
7:39de restrict it and then so the who you
7:41call pays for it yes oh okay you made
7:44look talk like family members and
7:45parents all yeah my mom and dad my
7:47sister okay good is that a good thing
7:50that's a good
7:51thing yeah they don't hear from me like
7:53it what's wrong good how is it with them
7:57so far so good yeah yeah it was uh it
8:01was hard to hear your parents and
8:03sentencing yeah I didn't know if they
8:05were going to what they were going to
8:07say MH so yeah and so yeah I really
8:13appreciate what they said I don't know
8:14about you I definitely was uh I didn't
8:17expect them to be there I know they were
8:18there on the 6th six but I didn't expect
8:22them to fly back and they wanted to fly
8:24back to that yeah and then while your
8:26mom said MH definely
8:29good um well so we have a thousand
8:33questions I'm sure you do too you care
8:35if we start or do do you have any
8:37questions for us go ahead all right so
8:40one of the things that we're battling
8:42with is um and I I should I won't make
8:44any assumptions today so are you aware
8:47that this was a national story after
8:50after a little while was I didn't talk
8:52to my parents while I was in Colorado
8:54okay cuz I mean my ter team told me all
8:56right no phone calls no letters no
8:59nothing so like I made I made one phone
9:02call when I was in the segregation area
9:04there but my dad didn't thought it was
9:07like somewhat like a news tring to call
9:10so he didn't answer yeah so he didn't
9:12answer but other than that okay I didn't
9:15talk to anybody but from what the some
9:19of the deputies were saying that you
9:20know for my attorney them coming in said
9:22you know this is like they got people
9:25from Australia England and all kinds of
9:26people trying to figure out what's going
9:28on so did they send you any you any the
9:30letters like fan mail or anything well
9:33um I got letters but I couldn't keep
9:34them like it with me so like I could
9:36read and let on my hour out but it's
9:38like you know I got a bunch of letters
9:41that had no address stuff that was just
9:44you
9:45know not not very good letters yeah so
9:48okay they came from a weird perspective
9:51didn't they from what we have heard
9:52definitely there was there was one
9:54person I guess from romfield that was
9:55like riding like four times a week
9:57trying to come visit me and then there
9:58was just a lot of people like right that
10:00like Le through markers saying know like
10:02you're a monster all kinds
10:05of
10:07Stu well I don't we're going to talk
10:10about some hard issues today but I don't
10:12intend to take you to a dark place today
10:14okay um I hope that when we're done
10:16you'll feel better I hope it'll be
10:18therapeutic um we're going to talk about
10:21obviously um what happens with your
10:23family so that's going to be hard to
10:25talk about I appreciate anything you can
10:27tell me about it um if you need to take
10:29time out if you need to get a tissue
10:31that's fine right um I think it'll be
10:33very good for you it'll be good for us
10:36and so one of the reasons that's about
10:38that national attention is um we were
10:40aware that you were getting a lot of
10:42letters um a lot of interest and then us
10:46personally as law enforcement we got so
10:49many people who claim to have known you
10:51claim to have been with you dated you
10:55slept with you and 99 of 100 they were
10:59just crazy people right um and so maybe
11:02that's a good place to start um had you
11:05heard about any of there uh John while
11:07she told me about uh one some dude from
11:12Wyoming yeah that guy that that my mind
11:16I was like and who told you right now
11:19turnning John oh okay yeah um we talk
11:23about him gram and I interviewed him you
11:27had to Wast our Liv yes so Trent in
11:30summary Trent came in and said um met
11:33you online on a dating app um had a few
11:37you know uh casual but quick sexual
11:40encounters with you um and and let me be
11:43very clear not only are we not here to
11:45jam you up today we're also not here to
11:46judge you um and if there is anything
11:49like that you can imagine we've heard
11:51way worse way different you know so um
11:54if it's true I hope that you can just
11:56casually say yeah I mean this happened
11:57it wasn't as bad as he said that maybe
11:59this happen so his story was um met
12:03online met you and it was a time when
12:07you were uh experimenting with maybe met
12:11and so he said he met a couple times met
12:13his friends went to an apartment I had a
12:16couple of meetings in a parking lot and
12:18that was basically it any of that sound
12:20familiar never okay all right yeah he
12:24talked about being in a your truck with
12:26your girls like the whole nine yards so
12:31I never been to while driv up there to
12:34see some yeah um and so this is maybe a
12:37weird question for you uh do you have
12:40any uh gay experience no okay any
12:44interest no okay never had a Time
12:46experimented Wonder no okay is it
12:49possible that he found you instead of
12:51you finding him from what John told me
12:54to find me on like a what'sapp I don't
12:57even have that app okay never got me had
12:59my phone so got I saw what app I had but
13:03I've never even heard of the app but
13:04apparently like he told me like better
13:07do like a rehab center or something is
13:09that what it said no that was another
13:12guy yeah it was it was totally I no so
13:17did you see a picture of him on the news
13:18or anything um John showed me a picture
13:21of like this guy he was now was kind of
13:24you know Mak find like you know sure BR
13:26I'm like so you saw it and like no way
13:30big lips did you see the giant lips like
13:32I have no clue and he's somewhat
13:35memorable yeah if you met him or talk to
13:37him or got to know him you might
13:39remember um he's he's he was kind of
13:42Meek yeah but also a little bit U
13:45flamboyant yeah he did fake lip or not
13:48fake lips but injections he's very into
13:51skin care makeup um and he mentioned
13:55that one of the times just as a gift you
13:57got him some skincare products mhm that
14:00any of that sound familiar okay you can
14:02imagine all the stuff we're dealing with
14:04okay so that's one mhm a Trent boards
14:07there was another guy that you were
14:08dealing with Amanda McMahon you ever
14:10heard that name no John show me a
14:12picture of her okay oh you did see a
14:14picture of her too yeah he had
14:19like that
14:22look that's the same picture you showed
14:24me
14:25on I like that he's like you don't know
14:28her is yeah like no yeah they said it
14:31was like a Chick-fil-A parking lot r or
14:34something right that's just not true
14:35that's what she's claiming
14:38okay one car one in Broomfield Highway s
14:43okay oh it okay um do you feel
14:47comfortable enough today to tell us if
14:49there were other people yeah it was just
14:50the cold that was
14:54it as these people have come out for the
14:57most part we've not given their story as
15:00much credit they have just created
15:01people who want attention um and so but
15:07when that does happen it does make us
15:09think um you know there may have been
15:12others so nio was the only one that was
15:14the only one was there ever like a one
15:16night stand with someone else just out
15:17of blue and one and done no okay all
15:20right um talk a little bit more about so
15:25walk me through it CU that was one of
15:26the things we never really got to ask
15:27you about right we didn't talk K on and
15:30you know talked about where the girls
15:31were but so what happened there so it
15:34was probably around probably June 1st or
15:38something that's when I first met her
15:40and um it was just like a work
15:42conversation she messed with the gas
15:43meters that know out the field and I
15:47messing up and then I took a door like
15:49hey how what's going on with this how do
15:52I fix it you know after that you know we
15:55just ran into each other a few times in
15:57the office and I think it was probably
15:59the fourth time meeting um she asked me
16:02cuz like when I we were popping back and
16:04forth I would say uh you know like we
16:07moved here from Colorado from North
16:09Carolina stuff like that and then she
16:11was like what's all this weed stuff like
16:13took off my phone show picture like what
16:16my girl's on the phone it's like oh okay
16:18like like yeah like I don't wear I
16:20didn't wear a ring work cuz I got s off
16:22so get ref I lost all that weight so but
16:25um you lost so much weight that your
16:26fingers lost weight yeah it was lit like
16:28I was out in the snow one time I went
16:30like that ring went off on the Rocks so
16:33I was like I was panicking around the
16:34final like can't remember say anymore
16:37but um so after that she left me alone
16:39for a couple days then she text me
16:41outside the field and then after that we
16:44kept texting back and forth and it was
16:46just you know like you know like she
16:48used to work in a little rig out in
16:50North Dakota thing and U we just kind of
16:53shreding the stories back and forth
16:54about what we did and everything and
16:56then one day it just kind of went to to
16:58a different different level and then I
17:02never thought it would ever go to that
17:03level but she was talking about meeting
17:06up after we got back from San
17:10Diego yeah San Diego from the 22nd to
17:14the
17:1526 of June and uh we met up after after
17:20we got after we got back and uh how did
17:22you guys meet up uh at a fork in uh
17:26Thon yeah th somewhere um and after that
17:32we just kept seeing each
17:34other pretty much the whole month of
17:36July so I'm going this um you tell me if
17:40I'm wrong you strike me as somewhat of a
17:42shy person so when you guys were meeting
17:45they were just kind of very initiatory
17:47like flirting at first okay from both
17:49sides yeah they were just kind of like
17:51heing each other
17:53out yeah um and so text any
18:01calls more near the end of June okay and
18:05what makes you remember that it's a CH
18:07that it happen CU we call each other
18:09before I left to go to San Diego oh okay
18:12all right um at first did you think
18:15something might happen I just thought it
18:18was just flirting I didn't think it was
18:19actually like something that would
18:21actually happen yeah well it's totally
18:24natural right I mean everyone kind of
18:25flirts at work right um because
18:27relationship between men and is
18:28different so if you're working with a
18:29girl at work it's just kind of natural
18:31FLIR I wish I would down the field more
18:34so the office Lo that but yeah kind of
18:39see it in your
18:40eyes that's uh that's kind of where the
18:43path started is yeah I mean if I was
18:45like cuz when I was a field when I went
18:47from like a Rover to a field coordinator
18:50like I would spend more time in the
18:52morning time the office trying to get
18:53everything like situated where we're
18:55going to go everything like that that
18:57was a road more out the field instead of
19:00like coming to the office like for more
19:03than an hour right I just gave me more
19:06time to run into her pretty much
19:09yeah what did she know about you did she
19:11know you married first she did once I
19:14showed her the pictures yeah my phone
19:16like you know the home screen picture so
19:19was your wife in that picture or was it
19:20just your phone it was just my girls
19:22right there but my wife was the like the
19:24lock screen oh so she knew I was married
19:26my kids okay
19:29are you aware that she said she didn't
19:30know you were married what do you think
19:32about that was like just trying to save
19:36face trying to
19:38know I just trying to something my
19:42sister said it was like U she trying to
19:46keep things together just trying she she
19:49she phras it a different way but just
19:50kind of
19:52like it's like Ground Control is trying
19:54to control everything that's going on
19:55around her I'm sure she got bombarded by
19:58all kind of different sides from media
20:00and everything so have you talk to her
20:03at all no I'm hoping she hasn't like you
20:06know written me in a different Alias or
20:08something no I'm not talking to her that
20:09way oh and are you not allowed to talk
20:12to her I I would that okay no one told
20:16you that then no I mean I would I would
20:18expect like
20:20uh I thought like Colorado was said like
20:22on a DC list if you're on like a victim
20:24list can't call anybody but here I'm not
20:27sure if I say I just talk to my sister
20:31parents some friends about
20:33parents do you wish you could talk to
20:36her maybe once just to just get some
20:39closure just to say like hey you
20:41know just
20:43once yeah say like I'm sorry this all
20:46happened I'm sorry I'm not sure like
20:48what happened like afterwards like what
20:50you went through like if you had like
20:52counseling if you're like you know
20:54different state if you had to leave
20:55everything behind I just just wanted to
20:58sorry that's something I saw prob
21:00happening wor I think somebody else
21:02could do would you be all right if we
21:05told her that that's fine do you want us
21:08to you want us to not to and if she
21:10would want you I'm not
21:13sure I'm sure she answered your phone
21:15call more than attorney phone call that
21:18she didn't want to go answer yeah I was
21:21here attorney tried to call her and she
21:23wouldn't
21:24answer yeah I remember I remember her
21:26phone number but uh after that they
21:29figured out I guess where she lived they
21:31left a call Bon's car there and she just
21:35pretty much after like the F to 10 they
21:37said she said
21:39stop yeah yeah I'm sure she's getting
21:42bombarded like everyone else
21:45so hopefully it's calm down since
21:49but I'm sure like I just hope she can
21:52like like I'm just like mostly for her
21:56not since she's on the outside side but
21:59I'm hoping it can get that way at some
22:01point not sure if she had to leave
22:03Colorado or not but sure that would have
22:05been hard she did
22:07mhm t a darker wizard your job so that's
22:11one thing I always like
22:12asked my inter is like uh did she have
22:15to leave like did she have to do
22:17anything at work that was one Things She
22:19always told me that was her job so oh
22:21really what did she mean uh like the get
22:24like in The Old Company in dark I was
22:26like you I mean unless you work like
22:28like oh I see what you're saying go like
22:33big leagues
22:35yeah can I ask kind of a question um did
22:38you love her that felt like it was
22:41through
22:43yeah I think so too I think it was the
22:46same from
22:51her
22:55um tell us about the time spent with
23:00well I mean it felt like it was you
23:02know I think like when you said like
23:04more more like a shy guy it's kind of
23:06like I've never like been pursued by
23:07anybody before it kind of like I was the
23:09one you know trying to pursue cuz like
23:12when me and shenan met it was like you
23:13know she was always
23:15like pushing me away kind of like you
23:18know she was sick for a while right oh
23:20yeah she had yeah she was uh she just
23:21got diagnosed with luus and she was on
23:23like a bunch of different medication and
23:25stuff and um it was
23:28like I guess I was was her type you
23:31weren't herp I wasn't her type cuz like
23:33she she she told me like when she first
23:36cuz we had met she told you that you're
23:38not I remember you telling me that yeah
23:40it was like you know when we first met
23:42like was at a movie theater my cousin's
23:45ex-wife said us up you were dressed like
23:47[ __ ] weren't you I didn't that's what
23:51you told me yeah I didn't know like
23:55that any games so she was
23:58like shorts and shoes or something
24:01right I should have known the door man
24:03you know was in a suit I was just
24:06like this isn't good I like when you had
24:09a theater it was a fancy theater right
24:11in Charlotte it was called the after
24:12Center and apparently they give you like
24:15champagne and all kind stu oh this is a
24:17fancy dat mag theater yeah I think he
24:19came I think he came like he was going
24:21to a like
24:25cinematics
24:26AMC Theater
24:28no it was like like you like just watch
24:30the normal normal movie but like you can
24:31like drink champagne and like have like
24:33you know KCK and Coke inside the theater
24:36there
24:37and whatever but like yeah when she
24:40first saw me she was like I should
24:41probably just turn and talk to the
24:43bartender a little more no I'm not like
24:45I'm not not here to meet yeah like it
24:48was I was like persistent trying to
24:51something I liked her and uh even like
24:54even on the first day like I couldn't
24:56even eat anything really I was just like
24:58she nervous yeah really yeah she she was
25:01just like you know CH down she was like
25:03like a bird I'm like funny and she
25:06talked my parents like you know months
25:08later she was like this guy just never
25:10ate he like this guy he like a trash
25:12trash like no that was not around me I
25:15was like I was nervous I was just like I
25:18shaking everything but um yeah I was
25:22always pursuing her and then just like
25:24um finally I just I threw on to her like
25:26you know I always like like with her
25:28medications and stuff I would always
25:29like she had like eight bottles of
25:31medication so I would always get like
25:32her day and nights and kind of like put
25:33them all in that little you know flip
25:35open L all that kind of stuff and and I
25:38would always you know be around I went
25:40to her col H she said after that she
25:43knew that was that kind of a keeper it's
25:46like you know who goes to a colopy after
25:48three months with somebody right that's
25:50a little
25:52same she asked she needed a ride I'm
25:54like yeah she like you want to go I'm
25:56like sure why not like even sat with her
25:59while she drank that nasty stuff all day
26:03yeah where she's in the
26:06bathroom like clear stuff that's not
26:08that doesn't really taste
26:10clear yeah but uh yeah it was I mean it
26:14felt like a great it was a great
26:15relationship everything was everything
26:17was great now you talking about with
26:20kinger no with and um like the first
26:24first year you know like and my parents
26:27never oh I don't know my mom was always
26:30kind of hesitant why I I was the baby I
26:34guess I
26:36never CU I never had a girlfriend in
26:38high school so it's got like she never
26:39like really saw me like oh interesting
26:42so she's kind of watching her baby walk
26:44out a little bit Yeah cuz I when I
26:45turned 18 I graduated I never moved back
26:48okay that that old so my sister moved
26:51back and forth all the time how old were
26:53you when you met shenan I was 25 was
26:5720110 so okay so no serious girlfriends
27:00before that no nothing more than like 6
27:04months or
27:06so yeah there was there was there was
27:08some girls here and there but just not
27:09the more like you know I the last
27:12girlfriend I had before and she was just
27:15actually got divorced and I should never
27:17been that but it was more of like a I
27:20was kind of like helping her get through
27:22her divorce it seemed like she went on
27:24somewh else like oh nice to know you're
27:27the rebound guy the rebound guy pretty
27:29much but how it goes would you say that
27:33in your relationships with women um it
27:36seems to me and you tell me if I'm wrong
27:38it seems to me like you're attracting
27:41maybe a more dominant
27:43personality it seemed like it because
27:45I'm more of the just reserved I mean I
27:48just kind of like go with the flow type
27:49yeah like usually made all the decisions
27:53seem like so I get that I'm saying yeah
27:56I don't know what it is
27:59yeah I don't think that's right with you
28:02but so then and I know it's hard to keep
28:06bouncing back and forth
28:09but and one of the reasons we're here is
28:12we just keep telling ourselves gra just
28:14does not fit the mold gra does not know
28:17like this this it just blowed us away
28:19what happened right and so we will do a
28:23little bit of bouncing back and forth
28:24and that's really just to get to know
28:25you a little bit better we never really
28:27know that
28:29pretty much twice you once yeah prob
28:32like three well remember three or four
28:34times
28:36probably so then with do you call her
28:39Nikki or Nicole I would call her Nikki
28:41okay I know there's some Nikki and
28:44Nicole's in this right I got confused so
28:47we'll call her
28:48Nikki so then Nikki was it different it
28:52just seemed like I was more in control
28:54it seem like and that never happened
28:57like she actually like asked me like
28:59like my opinion on a lot of things just
29:01like what I wanted to do and just kind
29:03like okay it was new wasn't it very new
29:07it's fascinating to me and so did it
29:10feel more like an equal partnership or
29:13seemed like it yeah okay so then when it
29:18was date night would you guys talk about
29:20it would you ask to go somewhere would
29:22she say I want to go somewhere was a bit
29:24too fast I you know the first time we
29:26went out it was a movie over at the
29:28orchard about 144th over there and I
29:32asked her like hey you want to go see
29:33this movie and like like yeah I'm like
29:35okay cool and we just we got there it
29:37was sold out and you know normally
29:39probably just have you know just wait
29:41two hours like you know just go home but
29:42not she just wanted to walk around just
29:44talk okay oh wow so that was that was
29:47different and you know think she wanted
29:49to go to the car museum Shel Museum and
29:53Boulder I never been there that's right
29:55up your alley meic I was just like that
29:57was awesome just to walk around cars for
30:00like an hour or so and then you know
30:04drag race and bamir okay haven't been to
30:08a drag race
30:10since 2008 that was charet okay like
30:14that some drag strip over there this
30:16like the NH the top fi fun car stuff
30:19like me and my dad used to grow up yeah
30:21go there like all the time and then like
30:24uh went to camping and
30:28sandunes National Park and I never i'
30:31never been camping I always wanted to do
30:32it thought she done it like countless
30:36times oh really okay she's at doors you
30:39yes okay yeah she she I guess she every
30:43time like she need to clear her head she
30:44just go by herself this go somewhere oh
30:48but she's a completely new type of uh
30:50person and relationship [ __ ] yeah
30:53okay all
30:55right um
31:00what were you thinking this whole time
31:01like your head in the back of my head I
31:04was telling myself what are you doing
31:06like you know every time you know I open
31:08up my phone I could see pictures like my
31:12wife and my kids and just like what am I
31:14doing and then like every time I was
31:16with her it seemed
31:17like didn't think it seemed like it was
31:21like like a Blinder that was on my face
31:23oh and just like every time I look back
31:26on it like you know like I have pictures
31:28of My Wife and Kids and myself and like
31:31every night you know or every morning
31:33every night you know I just you know
31:35talk to him you know say like like I
31:37have like this
31:39book uh I used to read for CCE and I I
31:43remember that book so I read that to to
31:46them like every
31:47night and like there's some scripture
31:49and stuff that I read to them so just
31:51try to you know just try to think back
31:53like I
31:55was I I could wish that Blinder wouldn't
31:58on my head right in my eyes that would
32:00have seen what was going on like you
32:02know I was
32:03having everybody said your out out there
32:05having fun while your kids you know are
32:07kids and wife are on vacation I'm just
32:09like
32:10no it wasn't like that but it seemed
32:12like that's what it look like when
32:14you're going you know you're going to
32:17Camping going to drag race going all
32:19this other stuff that you have fun doing
32:21with somebody else it's not good family
32:23just didn't seem
32:24right you know with her it just didn't
32:26seem like I a see that
32:28anymore I was there at her house pretty
32:30much every night so it was like I didn't
32:32have that time at home just
32:35to think about anything cuz literally I
32:38didn't like I was only at home from like
32:41when I got home from work I worked out I
32:44ate dinner and then I went over else
32:48like I was never I never slept in my
32:50house like the whole month of July now
32:54talking through that though when you
32:55said you went home and then you were at
32:57her house was I watch now was gone oh
32:59okay so you weren't even at your house
33:01no this all happened so quickly didn't
33:03it it it was insane quickly like I
33:06didn't like she even told me like she
33:07was never in like a normal relationship
33:10she would never had somebody over her
33:12house like more than like once or twice
33:13a week but she felt like she wanted me
33:16over there and that she felt comfortable
33:18over there so like that's what it was
33:20different like she wanted to there
33:24but then I just wish all that
33:27go away I just wish I almost like I I
33:31know it's hard to I know it's wrong to
33:32say I wish i' never met somebody but I
33:34wish I you know maybe met her at work
33:36and then it's kept it that
33:38way I think we had a time machine I
33:42don't think this would happen again CU
33:44some people when this happens you're
33:45like well if it wasn't this time it
33:47would have been next time or it would
33:48have been the next time this just
33:49wouldn't have happen with you would
33:50it it happen so quickly
33:54that you tell me if I'm wrong
33:57you're not the type of guy to take
34:01control sometimes when you need to yeah
34:03it seems like that's just what happen I
34:05didn't I didn't take control of the
34:06situation I just like situation control
34:08of me right it just
34:11happened I get that man I'm somewhat
34:13passive myself and it's like you know
34:15there's situations I'm like why did I
34:17let that keep going no I don't know why
34:20I was like it like a roller coaster ride
34:23that I just kept punching the ticket on
34:25and never get up
34:30yeah can we talk about the hardest
34:34subject
34:36um so when we were talking the last time
34:39we talked um the last thing we talked
34:42about was where the girls were we never
34:45really got to talk about that
34:48night what
34:51happened so nothing really happened that
34:53night it was in the morning and you know
34:57me and Shan she got home like at
35:012:00 and uh you know I felt into the
35:06bed
35:08and I just s like I really I just make
35:12sure I look my on 2:00 make sure she
35:14look right she's in there and I kind of
35:16feel her kind of saring around a little
35:18bit oh she I I just had a feeling that
35:21she knew like what was going on I mean
35:24obviously I didn't like like I gift card
35:27you know that I got and i' used my
35:29actual credit card and I I kind of just
35:33felt like something she knew it was hold
35:35on and she uh she started rubbing her
35:39hand on me and we ended up having sex
35:41but uh uh I guess that was more like a
35:44test oh I would have thought interesting
35:48okay yeah because when we talked the
35:51when I woke up for later on in the
35:53morning like you know I I pretty much
35:56you know told her like you know I didn't
35:57think it was going to work
35:59anymore and she was like what Happ what
36:01was last night you know that test after
36:05I've gone through everything in my head
36:06that makes sense
36:09and she just told me you know
36:12like get off of her and she was like I
36:15knew some I knew there was somebody else
36:17I knew there was somebody else somebody
36:19else I couldn't bring it I couldn't just
36:22say yes there is somebody else but
36:25that's said when never going to see the
36:28kids again never see them again get off
36:30you don't hurt they end then is that
36:32what she
36:33said that was good like when I climbed
36:36in bed that was pretty much like on top
36:40pretty much like Stringer
36:43do she thought I was going to like you
36:45know
36:46know hurt her her baby or something
36:51so she because she knew that like you
36:53know something that happened she thought
36:55I was just tring to know check out or
36:59something
37:02that's I know it's hard but mind if we
37:07to the deeper about that so she comes
37:12home uh know she touches if you guys
37:14have sex it seems like she's doing her
37:16test which I understand sounds like you
37:19do too I'm sure like you know ni GE
37:22something yeah Cole lainson or Cassie
37:25prob told her you know that's what I was
37:27thinking right they talked about her
37:28during that whole weekend more than like
37:31that's my parents told me there was like
37:33a going do like text messages it's like
37:36all like pretty much they all kind of
37:39just told her left somebody
37:41else yeah and she' spent a lot of time
37:44with the gals that's what they did
37:47probably all weekend is talk about it
37:48give her advice I think that's what we
37:50found right yeah okay so she comes home
37:53how you guys have sex and then did you
37:55fall asleep between then and going to
37:58work yes okay so then at some point does
38:02she wake you up or did he waking up for
38:04work L points oh okay and you're going
38:06to work out but then that's when she
38:08started talk wanted to talk more she was
38:11pretty
38:13mad yeah she I mean it
38:16was I already kind of knew
38:18that using that credit car he got of was
38:22that intentional yeah I had no other way
38:25to do it oh like you know I I used cuz I
38:29got Darko gift cards from like you know
38:31you know doing good stuff at work and
38:33stuff like that i' us them all oh was
38:38was part of you just like I screw it
38:39what I up here I'm using this
38:42card part of me just want to say nck can
38:45you for
38:46this yeah even I think um my my attorney
38:50said she even notics I used a different
38:52card like a blue card oh maybe she
38:54thought you know like I felt comfortable
38:56enough
38:57home account something but you
39:00know I told her I was going Tock yeah I
39:02told you told you yeah said know even it
39:07felt like you know like looking back at
39:09everything like just like reading the
39:11scripture more and more now I can see
39:13like you know God told like gave me
39:15opportunities to get out like even my
39:18friend Jeremy lrom he even invited me
39:21because like it was his daughter that
39:23came watch the kids on Saturday that
39:25Saturday night and he was like hey you
39:27said we going to a rocky game you want
39:29to go to me with Bronco game and watch
39:30the Ariz like in my mind it was like you
39:34know go just just yeah just just say hey
39:38I I can't can't find a
39:41babysitter thinking yeah and maybe that
39:44would have been like you know you know
39:46like a light switch in my head goes off
39:48light switch in her head goes off maybe
39:50just like goes different direction that
39:52was kind of like my last like
39:54opportunity to kind of get out this
39:57saying I wish I would have said yeah
39:59let's go
40:01okay I think that would have just put me
40:03on a different
40:06trajectory so then shenan did she
40:10actually say you're never going to see
40:11the kids again she said that to me
40:13before
40:15yeah that kind of hard to hear yeah cuz
40:17she'd said to for went to
40:20Arizona like I wasn't really sleeping on
40:22the bed I was sleeping on the caler in
40:24the basement bed or something like she
40:26had slam or you never see the kids again
40:29somewh she get
40:31firey only once in our entire
40:33relationship I that way yeah and that
40:36was the a time before or was that on the
40:39night that happened no it was uh back in
40:42North Carolina oh it was one it was just
40:45like one of
40:46those it was just a fiery partch of it
40:49that i' never like I never raised my
40:51voice to her or anything and like you
40:53know I like I just got mad and I slammed
40:55the door and she
40:57like like should have SL was that when
41:01you were in North Carolina that last
41:02week no it was like previous to this
41:04like 2010 2011 it was like early early
41:07early in an old house the four kids yes
41:11were you dating were you married that
41:12dating oh yeah it was just like I I
41:15don't remember what it was about I think
41:17some I think some girl maybe deated like
41:20from my past or something and like you
41:21know it was just
41:23like and and she was like you know don't
41:26have that happen again and I'm just like
41:28the heck have friends right they're
41:30females like I don't talk to this woman
41:31anymore right I was just
41:34like no was she fiery do she have that
41:36Italian blood that her mom has Lord
41:40yes was she always like that or was she
41:43uh did she snap at things it's she
41:47wouldn't snap at me but you could tell
41:48like you know
41:49something something really ired her a
41:51little
41:52bit it would come out Z to 100 type
41:55thing or what I yeah Zer 200
41:59interesting's she was she gets activated
42:02about something she's like Christ it's
42:03gonna happen well that's why she was
42:05probably so successful at Thrive right
42:07oh yeah like she had done a couple other
42:09like direct sales business but this one
42:10was just like it was different
42:13why this one like um I think she had
42:16done like borami owl and like something
42:19called like U it works and then like
42:23um other other other couple other things
42:26some bags and stuff like stuff like that
42:28the supplement stuff just because it
42:30worked with her work with me she's like
42:33okay I can kind of like use this but
42:34like all right this is what's doing for
42:36us yeah and then like after a little
42:38while like she could see how like people
42:40are above her how it was helping them
42:43and then it was just like trickled out
42:45effect really it was like a good
42:48system about like you know commission
42:50wise and everything and everything was
42:52just she could use all the business IQ
42:56she has from running those cell phone
42:57shops and from the very sou custom shops
43:01all that I me she she business minded
43:03yeah she knows how to do accounting book
43:05like back of her hand
43:07so that all just like fell into place
43:10with all
43:11up so then on that
43:16night was it just a new type of
43:19fight never had or what would happen
43:22totally different type of
43:24fight it was
43:27just felt
43:28like I know it's more anger than than
43:31anything else like there was emotion to
43:32it at first and then it just felt like
43:33it was just anger it was just like no
43:35like like there was no love there it was
43:38kind of like what we were saying what
43:40she was saying it was just like it's
43:43almost like we knew like something
43:44Wasing at at at each other we didn't
43:47know like it was it wasn't ourselves
43:50really Anger from you or anger from her
43:52I think it was more anger from me and
43:54more like desperation from her her to
43:58cuz she wanted to mix she knew she knew
44:01if something was right like no like when
44:04the whole thing with my parents happened
44:06with somebody my parents called gate
44:10nutgate what's that the
44:14peanut oh the her family yeah pachio ice
44:18cream
44:20yeah I haven't heard that I heard I
44:24guess
44:24what but
44:26that was like another outl you know
44:28maybe I could have just like stopped
44:29everything with Nikki and just kind of
44:31concentrated on helping like whatever
44:33happened there had a story my mom had a
44:37story
44:38whatever probably asked my 10-year-old
44:41nephew proba tell me what actually Happ
44:43well they both have their feelings for
44:44good reasons and they both didn't see it
44:46the other person's way and yeah and like
44:49maybe I cuz I could I didn't talk to my
44:51parents from then on until like August
44:546th and like you know my dad took that
44:56whole week off you talk to your parents
44:59to know yeah oh okay yeah cuz like Jan
45:02was like do not talk to them do not call
45:04them you're not do anything is that what
45:06she said yeah and uh the uh cce's
45:09birthday was 177 but I think the actual
45:13birday party was like a couple days
45:15after in August July July yeah and um
45:19like my my mom or my dad was going to go
45:22but then there was like a post on
45:23Facebook about you know allergies and
45:25stuff like
45:26B I was like no I just can't can't do it
45:28anymore just like cuz he he perceived
45:32that as her taking a shot Tye thing yeah
45:34okay she always says she never you know
45:37put those posts to directed at anybody
45:39but she she had if you read them you
45:41know who talk about she had method and
45:45see it but it's I wish I could have just
45:49took more time just to fix that cuz like
45:52I was like I wanted my parents to be
45:54involved like since you know the whole
45:56wedding thing and then after that it was
45:59like you know my mom my sister were
46:01always like you know combating with SH
46:04combating with them my dad was always
46:06cool like he's just like me he's just
46:08like you know go with the flow like I
46:10just want everybody to get along deal
46:11chicks man I loved your dad he's the
46:14best isn't he i l your dad keep going
46:18that's um I just wish I could have like
46:22just when we were in uh we were at the
46:24beach August
46:26like my Dad was supposed supped to take
46:27through the whole week off just so he
46:28could see the kids and like see me like
46:31grab a cook out at my sister's house or
46:33something and then but we just pretty
46:35much spent five days at the beach and
46:38Sheed like book it so like you I mean
46:41didn't I don't want to say like
46:43punishment for them not to see the kids
46:44but like I wanted them to see it see
46:46them just I wish I could and fixed it
46:50all fixed all that I even like when I
46:53was at the beach I told Shan that
46:56it was more like what was going on was
46:58more of like I feel like you know my
47:00dad's hero I feel like I've lost like
47:02something in my life I haven't been
47:03talked to them for three weeks I've been
47:05see see the kids for two weeks you know
47:07FaceTime or
47:08anything and I wanted them to be able to
47:10have that
47:11relationship and they not she was few
47:15much going oh like she tried to kill my
47:17daughter I give in her I like I don't
47:20think she gave it
47:22to was that her stance is that your mom
47:25put that put something in front of CC
47:28like to kill her or no just like didn't
47:31care like like didn't pick she she
47:34thinks that allergies and like this
47:36state of AG is like people think oh like
47:39it's made up kind of thing'll fine he'll
47:41just have rash she'll be fine I seen CC
47:44you know like the first time well seen a
47:46picture when had a cash you the first
47:47time it wasn't good and then she had
47:48kiwi the second time and same thing
47:51happened and um I know it's real do you
47:54know it's serious yeah yeah it's not
47:56like it wasn't like her throat like
47:58closed up but she broke out in this full
48:00Vash it looked really I mean crazy
48:02looking and luckily like you know
48:04nothing with a throat like happened but
48:07um so did that make you angry to at your
48:09mom for doing that yeah I mean I just
48:11like well you just got I told you you
48:12need to think you need to like you know
48:14pay attention just because another kid
48:16can have something doesn't mean another
48:17kid can have something because like when
48:18we were at that birthday party at
48:19Jeremy's that Sunday you know they had
48:22this cake there like B Bella wanted a
48:25soda I'm like can't cuz can't have it
48:29she was like you know okay and all the
48:31other kids were like she they can't have
48:34the kick you know like I just kind of
48:35took them off gave him some like like a
48:38one those frozen pops or something but
48:41you know it's just like she had to learn
48:42that just because one kid have some and
48:44there's another kid that can't have it
48:46for legitimate reason like she couldn't
48:49have done it but you know that's the
48:51kind of talk I had with her when shean
48:53and called me I think it was
48:56maybe like middle of July or something
48:58when she told me all this that happened
49:00that's when I called my mom and talked
49:01to them for a while and then they're
49:02just like you know they just couldn't
49:03deal with her anymore she man just kind
49:06of like you know they like flipped out
49:08my NE old Bella to go hide behind the
49:11curtain because I don't think your mom's
49:13going let you come over here again or
49:14something like that so they got eated oh
49:16they were it was bad really yeah it was
49:19it was like a last straw between them I
49:21think like in the same room or over the
49:23phone no they were at at they so they
49:27yeah Cece and Bella and my nie and
49:30nephew were there okay how did Jo man
49:33find out about the ice cream thing cuz
49:35uh chel was there and uh I guess they
49:38were all sitting uh one C was kind of
49:41like a you and my niece went into the
49:45kitchen and she knew where the ice cream
49:48was so not your mom gave it to her like
49:51she got her own she went in the freezer
49:53I went out and St beside CC and started
49:56eating but like it's just a matter of
49:58like C could go like right Fu that I I
50:02don't know what would happen if she just
50:03got it on her hand right but like I know
50:05on like the prick test on the back it's
50:09like
50:10a so would they stay in there at your
50:12parents house during that time yeah it
50:14was um so they would go from my uh from
50:17Sandy and Frank's house for like a few
50:19days or five days and go to my mom and
50:21dad's house for a couple days back and
50:24forth so during that time no
50:29there
50:31so there are so many things that
50:33happened weren't there they just were
50:35little tiny ingredients to this recipe
50:37nothing like nuts Chris I mean it's just
50:40so many things just didn't go your way
50:43everything was like like somebody was
50:44stirring a pot and it just exactly what
50:46it looked
50:47like so
50:50then I know I keep bringing it
50:53up you walk me through
50:56that's just the last few minutes before
50:58shenan
50:59died it was pretty much just like I got
51:03dressed for work and then like we
51:05started talking did she come to you no I
51:09was I was just right there in bed okay
51:11yeah so I was just like I got my blue
51:13shirt on
51:15my go was she asleep or did did you have
51:18to wake her up to finish your
51:19conversation or I wake her up cuz like
51:21she she she got home like 2:00 so she
51:24was she PR much out B
51:26I never knew like if like if you're
51:27playing out the L some always told me
51:29like she just like sat around with the
51:32coold just like talked for a while then
51:34came home or something I'm not it was L
51:37yeah but uh yeah when she came home and
51:40everything but yeah like I I woke up to
51:44talk to her oh okay yeah and is that
51:46because it was just eating at your like
51:48I I knew like you know something like
51:51did something felt right with me so I
51:53know like she knew um I just I
51:57just I just felt like maybe like maybe
52:00the kids weren't going to be there when
52:01I got home that day oh interesting
52:05now um I don't mean to offend but I have
52:08to ask is that really the
52:10truth okay I really felt like they were
52:12they weren't going to be there when I
52:13got home by oh like she would take them
52:16somewhere no I just felt like either
52:19maybe I wouldn't go home maybe they
52:21weren't going to be there or I wouldn't
52:22be allowed in typ thing
52:25I think I saw some text messages where
52:27shenan talked about um that she would
52:29take the kids to another state or
52:31something because she couldn't wouldn't
52:32be able to afford to live in Colorado or
52:34something did she say that kind of stuff
52:36to you or yeah what did she say about
52:38that she said she couldn't afford to
52:39live in Colorado by on her own and that
52:42I told her like well he dve pretty much
52:44makes the same that I do yeah
52:46but as she said she would she wouldn't
52:49want to try just because you know
52:51Colorado just price of living there was
52:54a lot higher than North Carolina
52:55and just just so I'm clear you thought
52:57maybe she was she in your mind you
52:59thought maybe she would take the kids
53:01somewhere else or like lock you out of
53:02the house or or just like you know I
53:04wouldn't want to make a scene like you
53:05know trying like on the door trying to
53:07get in like that I just felt like you
53:10know that that was what I did on Sunday
53:13you was kind of like or Saturday night
53:15was kind of like the last DW like going
53:17out with
53:19somebody account card and just like not
53:21trying I
53:22don't so walk me through it because she
53:26comes home she T to you guys have sex
53:28you fall asleep then you wake up for
53:30work all natural all you know a normal
53:32days work type
53:34thing what was it that made you think I
53:36just can't do this anymore I have to
53:38talk to
53:39her it was eating away like I knew like
53:42something I everything that I did like I
53:45know like when I was with Nikki it was
53:47you know different like I wasn't even
53:49like in the realm of I'm a dad I'm a
53:53husband type thing oh and then like like
53:56I like I was saying when I'm never at
53:57home like sleeping at my own bed and
53:59like I have no like concept of that anym
54:04interesting in your mind and heart you
54:06can have moved on like it was it just it
54:09kind of felt like if I wasn't at home
54:11like I didn't think about it almost cuz
54:13like if I wasn't sleeping on my own but
54:15like I think there was one at one point
54:18like Nikki had gone to the mountain with
54:21her friends for like a few days like
54:23into June first part of July and then
54:26like you know that part you know
54:29obviously home but like from that whole
54:31month of July on it was
54:33like I was never a like I never had all
54:36those reminders around me I never had
54:38you know like every time my wife called
54:42me I would be at n SS oh while she was
54:47in North Carolina yeah okay and I would
54:49like you know walk outside talk to her
54:51like when I was next to the car or
54:53something like that I would never be at
54:54home all looking like have all these
54:56pictures around me just being in the
54:58same bed you know seeing my kids bed
55:00seeing everything that that we both last
55:04excuse and so did you just want to once
55:07and for all get it out in the open I
55:10just wanted to tell her how I was
55:12feeling at that point in time like I
55:13didn't feel like me and her were
55:16compatible anymore I honestly I didn't
55:17feel like that cuz what was going on
55:19with Nikki it just it was new it was new
55:22right absolutely anything that's new
55:24always feels was better than the old yes
55:27were probably bitten by the Love
55:29Bug unun it was just like I never felt
55:34that I mean even like with new
55:35relationships in the past like it always
55:37felt different like you know the first
55:38couple weeks and then you know but it
55:41just was someone Nicki felt different I
55:44don't know what it was maybe it was just
55:46like you said like you know I was more
55:48in control and like it was more of like
55:51maybe more of me coming out cuan always
55:53said like it always seemed I was more
55:56myself around other people like you know
55:59her cousin Cody like like she Cody lived
56:04or came visited us for little bit while
56:07we were in Colorado for a little while
56:08and Cody always talked about like oh
56:10Chris is so funny and Chris like sh
56:13always like why you never like that with
56:14me like I maybe I always felt nervous
56:18about you there's only so much oxygen in
56:21the room right I say this to some people
56:23what dominant personalities you know I
56:26just always felt nervous I always felt
56:27like I was you
56:29know never could actually just be myself
56:33right Nikki I was myself like all the
56:35time it was just
56:37different well and it seems as though
56:40and again hard to talk about and you
56:41tell me if I'm wrong but it also seems
56:43uh is it accurate to say that sexually
56:45you were able to say Nikki this is what
56:46I would like this is what I meant to you
56:48blah blah blah maybe not what she
56:49name oh Nikki just wanted I mean she
56:53wanted what she wanted she wanted do
56:55pretty much all the time I was like okay
56:57that's me okay which and it was
57:01like like
57:04hey sometimes happen sometimes it didn't
57:06but that wasn't that wasn't the case as
57:08far as that way it was like sex or but
57:11it was me I was just one myself I could
57:14like just not think about what I was
57:16going to say or plan what I was going to
57:18say or not you say something stupid or
57:20something a little bit of
57:22Freedom can I ask you something about
57:25that morning that you had sex with
57:27shenan did you feel at all like maybe
57:30you were kind of cheating on Nikki by
57:32doing that I felt strange I felt like
57:35you know the first time I was with Nikki
57:37I felt weird for St like and then the
57:39last time I was I felt totally strange I
57:41was just like I I didn't know who I was
57:43I didn't know who I had become I didn't
57:46I felt like I become people I see on TV
57:49and that did not feel right with me like
57:51I just I didn't know I didn't know what
57:53had happened to me Nicki even asked me
57:56like are you have you done this before
57:58have you ever straight away I'm like
57:59I've never even thought about it it's
58:01like what's what's difference
58:03like guess it's just you that's
58:05different because I just never actually
58:07like like I've seen girls smile at me
58:10before never done anything about it but
58:12her it was just like like she had a
58:14leash on me she tugged me away as soon
58:16as she walked I'm like the heck hell
58:18going
58:18on so well and Tammy brings up a very
58:22good point I wonder if
58:25that last time with shanan having sex
58:28had a somewhat of a role in you thinking
58:31I a trigger I got to do something I got
58:32to say something we got to have a talk
58:34something's got to
58:35change I just I felt like it was like
58:37maybe like a trigger point or something
58:39like like you hit the push button on a
58:42bomb it just blows up right something in
58:44my head was just like something just
58:46like something was just like I had to
58:49say something okay so then exactly what
58:52did you say and what happened so when
58:54when I woke her up and was like hey we
58:56just gota just got to talk I just like I
58:59told her I don't feel compatible I don't
59:02feel like this is going to work I just
59:04you know I don't want to like Can we
59:06cancel a trip to hpin to she booked a
59:09trip that week oh go to some like
59:13mystery fourstar luxury of or something
59:15just the two of you or the whole family
59:17just me and her okay she had Manda be
59:20watch casid that week that weekend or
59:21something okay and uh I was just like
59:24Can we cancel that can we like do
59:26something
59:27like from what I remember I even said
59:30can we move to Brighton just to get away
59:32from like this house oh but like I'm not
59:35sure if that was like like in the
59:37beginning or the end of part of the
59:39conversation or
59:42whatnot that conversation went so many
59:44different ways like they they had gone
59:46from like staying together to not
59:48staying together to just like all the
59:50above okay so this is half an hour an
59:53hour or what uh definitely not more than
59:57that okay I don't
59:59think are you crying is he
1:00:02crying it's like you know she's she's
1:00:04got you know mascara she didn't wash her
1:00:07face when she got home she had makeup on
1:00:09stuff so mascara running all over and
1:00:11stuff like
1:00:13that it was nothing nothing about that I
1:00:16just wish I could take all the back just
1:00:18be just the the whole NE thing like
1:00:21everything but so then when did it turn
1:00:25as far as that conversation MH just at
1:00:28the end when I was telling her
1:00:30like told her I didn't love her anymore
1:00:32that's what
1:00:33happened what
1:00:35happened she told me to get off her I
1:00:38put my hand
1:00:41okay did you say she said something like
1:00:43that you were hurting the baby or
1:00:45something that was before that cuz like
1:00:47when I was string her it was kind of
1:00:49like around her Bo type
1:00:51do why did you get on her like that
1:00:55I just when we got when we got on the
1:00:59bed that's just where I C on is that so
1:01:02she would listen to you I felt like I
1:01:05mean she could probably listen to me
1:01:06just laying beside her but I got on top
1:01:07of her and every time I think of got it
1:01:10I'm just like did I know I was going to
1:01:12do that before I got on
1:01:14top really that's an interesting thought
1:01:16Chris you don't know what you
1:01:19knew just like the whole everything that
1:01:21happened that morning I just don't I
1:01:22don't know like like I try to go back in
1:01:25my head I'm just like I didn't want to
1:01:27do this but I did
1:01:29it everything just kind of like felt
1:01:31like you had to it just felt like it
1:01:35was I don't even want to say it felt
1:01:36like an had to it just felt like there
1:01:38was already something in my mind that I
1:01:40wasn't planted I was going to do it and
1:01:41I woke up that morning it was going to
1:01:43happen and I had no control of it you
1:01:45never thought about it before it was
1:01:47just like I don't want like like like
1:01:51just like in the sentencing here that PR
1:01:54here said it takes two to four minutes
1:01:57something like that to happen like why
1:01:59why could I just let
1:02:00go
1:02:03didn't like was it feeling like it was
1:02:05in motion and you just couldn't stop it
1:02:07yeah it was just
1:02:09like I don't even want to know what what
1:02:11she saw she looked back at honestly did
1:02:14you look at
1:02:15her what was she
1:02:17doing
1:02:21fighting why do you think she wasn't
1:02:23fighting
1:02:26know maybe she was praying maybe she was
1:02:30just I read the Bible and said you know
1:02:33like you know uh the scripture says
1:02:36don't uh uh forgive these people for
1:02:39they do not know what they do um maybe
1:02:42she was saying that I don't know what
1:02:43she was saying in her head but
1:02:45she you know like like when you guys
1:02:48told me like take off your shirt and
1:02:50check for defensive bounds and like you
1:02:51know it wasn't going to be any she
1:02:53fighting I don't know why she didn't
1:02:55grab could she grab your arms or were
1:02:57her arms pinned down or remember I don't
1:03:00think so I don't think like I moved
1:03:03toward where my knees or around her arms
1:03:06or
1:03:07anything it just kind of like when I got
1:03:09on top of her we we started talking it
1:03:11was that was
1:03:12it it's kind of like in my head or like
1:03:16in the back of my head that was going to
1:03:17happen and just like at the end of the
1:03:19conversation it was just like that's
1:03:21what
1:03:23happened I just wish I could have let
1:03:28go did it seem like it was that long two
1:03:31to four
1:03:32minutes how long did it seem for
1:03:36you almost kind of felt like it was felt
1:03:39like it was longer almost cuz I feel
1:03:40like time was standing still it's kind
1:03:42of like I just saw my life just
1:03:44disappearing before my eyes but I just
1:03:46like I couldn't let it go it was like
1:03:47somebody else like like if you picture
1:03:50somebody else around you holding your
1:03:52hands holding you keep you from
1:03:55not not letting
1:04:04you some point there was a statement
1:04:06about rage do you feel like you're in a
1:04:08rage at that point how only way I can
1:04:11describe it
1:04:14honestly like a snap something know I
1:04:19know I guess my turn and said like some
1:04:21you know you know strangulation is more
1:04:24of like a I don't know passionate type
1:04:27thing I'm just like I don't know how
1:04:29that could be
1:04:31passionate it's just intimate because
1:04:33you're right and yeah us in your own
1:04:35hands it's a lot different than someone
1:04:37standing across the room and you
1:04:38shooting them or something like that
1:04:41so just felt like somebody was like
1:04:44behind me just
1:04:46like I just couldn't let go it's
1:04:49interesting to me because there was a
1:04:50lot of things in your life that were
1:04:52like that right where you're just like
1:04:54maybe felt out of control or maybe felt
1:04:55like I don't know why I couldn't St take
1:04:58a step back or you know like even when
1:05:00you said when your buddy was like a s of
1:05:02the football game you wanted to say yes
1:05:04could I wanted to like I I never been
1:05:06I'm been a football game since Carolina
1:05:09so I was like yeah sure
1:05:11like I wanted to say that yeah I wanted
1:05:15just text hey no fell through okay
1:05:23go
1:05:25so then
1:05:38what fact after you know
1:05:42sh once it once that
1:05:45was once she was gone it was just like I
1:05:48I didn't know what what was going on
1:05:51like that was like a traumatic I don't
1:05:54know what do you call traumatic event
1:05:55type and everything like that shaking I
1:05:58didn't know what had
1:06:05happened I didn't I didn't know what to
1:06:08do I didn't know what I had
1:06:11done I still was in that right state of
1:06:13mind I don't think like like I was in
1:06:15control of what I could think or what I
1:06:17could do at that point
1:06:21don't like most people say like why just
1:06:24called 911 wife was like unless you're
1:06:26in that situation we don't we don't know
1:06:28what we would have done it's easy to
1:06:30play Monday Morning
1:06:32Quarterback I agree with
1:06:35that like in said if somebody shoot
1:06:37somebody you don't know what going
1:06:38through mind that one time you know you
1:06:43done what happened
1:06:47next came in that what
1:06:51happened but she said
1:06:55why did she hear something is that
1:06:58she
1:07:03okay
1:07:08good did that happened with Bella right
1:07:11in that
1:07:11room
1:07:14not what
1:07:16happened she was she walked in as you
1:07:19know but D she was she was sleeping and
1:07:23then
1:07:26did you take her back to
1:07:30her she ran that she found s
1:07:36okay
1:07:41what carried her
1:07:44downstairs back my truck
1:07:46up at that point where the girl's still
1:07:49there okay so then she lands in the
1:07:52truck
1:07:54then went back to the
1:07:58house we got buy a truck was Bella first
1:08:02it was CC first and the truck yeah uh
1:08:06I'm sorry so shenan was first and then
1:08:08Bella was
1:08:10next was B
1:08:13uh
1:08:14alive when you put when you guys got on
1:08:16the truck oh okay what
1:08:21happened back up okay
1:08:28I want talk this party
1:08:33honestly those my kids baby talk every
1:08:39night
1:08:44okay every time I see pictures no
1:08:52how being a dad would have best part of
1:08:54my life I took it all the
1:08:56way I think that's the hardest part for
1:08:59us Chris is we see those videos we see
1:09:03that love that you had for your girls
1:09:06like it's obvious to us and even to us
1:09:10we it's hard for us to understand
1:09:12how a dad who's given piggyback rides
1:09:15and you know making snacks and watching
1:09:18princess movies and those kinds of
1:09:20things
1:09:22um are get to that point you
1:09:25know like I said it was just like
1:09:27something else was controlling me then
1:09:29day I had no control over what I was
1:09:31like to fight back
1:09:33yeah like when that prosecutor said it
1:09:35but better Tong like repeatedly I
1:09:39just I just want Miss back my head up
1:09:42against the
1:09:46wall so you put shenan in the truck and
1:09:49then you put the two girls in the
1:09:52truck or they just sitting in their car
1:09:54seats or or I guess they didn't probably
1:09:56have car SE in your truck did they
1:09:58sitting in the back with the like in
1:10:01that that bench so chenan was back there
1:10:04too on the floor what did they say about
1:10:07Chan being on the
1:10:09floor momy okay why' you tell him she'll
1:10:13be
1:10:19fine did you have your their stuff with
1:10:22them with their toys and nakeds and
1:10:24stuff they had they had some they had
1:10:27something with them that They Carried
1:10:29one of them I think think CCM had like a
1:10:31blanket or something with them M like a
1:10:34pink pink blanket
1:10:37or what about the dog I think one of
1:10:39kind a dog are you
1:10:41talk dog yeah one of them like a little
1:10:44bar dog was that with you too do you
1:10:47know I think it
1:10:49was trying to try harder like had like
1:10:52big blankets small
1:10:57blanket so I think I saw um on the video
1:11:02that you put a gas can or something in
1:11:03the back of your truck was that right
1:11:05did you have different
1:11:07plans where did you put that in
1:11:10there I don't know what was going
1:11:12through my head I feel like I maybe I
1:11:14could
1:11:16just get myself at the same time I doing
1:11:19all this honestly yeah you should think
1:11:21about
1:11:22that
1:11:24what what' you think about that I like I
1:11:27deserve to live after what had
1:11:36happened was there any thought
1:11:39to um the whole family going away that
1:11:42day to include
1:11:44you after everything happened that's
1:11:46definit thought
1:11:49yeah see it's interesting to
1:11:52me um we had all kind of wondered if
1:11:54there was a point when you were all
1:11:56together and if you were all going to
1:11:59pass
1:12:00together that to me makes sense CU
1:12:03that's even though it sounds crazy um
1:12:06that's what a family man does right
1:12:09family man doesn't do what he did no I
1:12:12know I guess what I mean is um it seems
1:12:16like you guys were going to be together
1:12:18forever in that way do that maybe what
1:12:21going through your head I H I just felt
1:12:24like I didn't I Des to
1:12:26load I was like whatever judgment I was
1:12:30going to come upon myself you
1:12:36know I just didn't deserve to be on the
1:12:38Ser anymore what
1:12:45happened so what made you not do that
1:12:48you
1:12:52think
1:12:55I don't know if it was just more of like
1:12:59a because with the with the site maybe
1:13:02it was just more of like I would have
1:13:04hurt more people than just me and
1:13:07everybody else like I know there's other
1:13:09people out there not like at the site of
1:13:12other people like maybe out in the area
1:13:16like I didn't want something like on the
1:13:18site to catch fire blow up and and then
1:13:22other people around get hurt insane so
1:13:25you were thinking initially about
1:13:27starting a fire out there or an
1:13:28explosion or something or just no not
1:13:31not
1:13:32for not for that just like maybe I could
1:13:35just take care of
1:13:40myself gasoline that's the only thing
1:13:42you do I mean I don't have like I don't
1:13:45have a gun I don't have anything like
1:13:46that I like suicide that way to blow
1:13:49yourself up it was just I wasn't
1:13:51thinking man I those I mean I don't have
1:13:54I don't have weapons I don't I've never
1:13:56hunted before in my life I don't know
1:13:58what I mean nothing was right down want
1:14:00yeah I remember you kept telling me that
1:14:02he kept saying I didn't know what I was
1:14:05doing Tammy I didn't
1:14:07know about the sheet like what were you
1:14:09doing like I don't know what I was doing
1:14:11yeah I think you were just like an
1:14:13automatic
1:14:14motor seemed
1:14:17like so did you drive straight out
1:14:22there what were you thinking on the way
1:14:24out there I was kind of like what I'm
1:14:27doing right now I'm just like you know
1:14:29nervous shaking not knowing like you
1:14:31know what's going happen yeah like I
1:14:35know like my life is completely changed
1:14:38I don't know like what's happening like
1:14:40honestly like I try to picture that that
1:14:42whole ride like it's like 45 minutes to
1:14:44an hour ride out there and it's just
1:14:46like couldn't I have like Saved My
1:14:50Girl's Life couldn't I have done
1:14:52something why did I do I don't know
1:14:54right like this is my flesh and blood
1:14:56this is like what I wanted all my life
1:14:59was to be a dad just to have you know
1:15:01kids and they love me they you know all
1:15:03that and just nothing nothing made sense
1:15:06right like the tank nothing made sense
1:15:08I'm just like what doing
1:15:12mhm so what happened when you got out
1:15:16[Music]
1:15:18there F Shan
1:15:20[Music]
1:15:22out just to place off to the
1:15:28site and then what were the girls
1:15:31stilling when you were doing
1:15:40that know what happened after
1:15:48that CC was
1:15:52first
1:15:59you did have a blanket you had a blue
1:16:04blanket I need you
1:16:15blanket so was she alive when she went
1:16:17into the oil tank
1:16:21no I put the blanket over
1:16:27head and that's how she pounced get
1:16:32brief I put the blanket over I didn't
1:16:34want
1:16:40no right there in the back SE
1:16:44okay what was SP
1:16:47doing
1:16:49later do she understand that she know
1:16:51what was going on you say anything
1:16:59and then the same
1:17:02forella just without a blanket with
1:17:04blanket oh okay I didn't
1:17:10look like every time I Clos my eyes I
1:17:13start just hear her say Daddy no and
1:17:15that was it that's what B
1:17:18said I hear that every day you go
1:17:31sorry
1:17:34man I'm sorry doesn't to take anything
1:17:37in the back that I did
1:17:41know is it
1:17:44possible that in your mind you didn't
1:17:47want them to suffer throughout their
1:17:49life was this like a mercy thing I mean
1:17:52you could say that like after the fact
1:17:54but it was just like I don't you didn't
1:17:56feel like that during it I just I felt
1:17:58like it was just like an anger with
1:18:00shenan with everything that I was just
1:18:02taking it out and everybody that was in
1:18:03front of me that morning
1:18:10yeah me kids grown up growing up without
1:18:13their parents they I mean depending on
1:18:15what grandparents or whatever they
1:18:16whoever they grew up with seemed to be
1:18:18fun but it was just like it was an angry
1:18:20thing it was just
1:18:21like
1:18:25and what were you so angry at shenan
1:18:28about like if you could pinpoint
1:18:32it nothing
1:18:35that nothing that makes anybody to want
1:18:38to do this you could be angry at your
1:18:41spouse like your whole life but you
1:18:42should never done anything like this you
1:18:44should never let it get to that
1:18:47point but I'll let it get to a point
1:18:49where I never I mean I've never been
1:18:51angry before like this is like the Imp
1:18:53of being angry yeah the epitome of like
1:18:56showing a rage the epitome of like
1:18:57losing losing your
1:19:02mind even like some people on here said
1:19:05do like the heck happened it was
1:19:06freaking snapped
1:19:08like walk away was like you know
1:19:14it's I don't see in my mind how it could
1:19:16have like not look outside every day I'm
1:19:18like what could we be doing right now
1:19:21yeah but you know
1:19:26right now I'd have a 5-year-old a
1:19:28three-year-old and might be a one-month
1:19:30old
1:19:31son beautiful wife just like right now
1:19:34it's just
1:19:43me I watched that video of you finding
1:19:47out that Shan was
1:19:49pregnant don't seem excited you seem
1:19:52like kind of in shocked and yeah like oh
1:19:55[ __ ] like it's already complicated and
1:19:58now this well it's like
1:20:01a when we had talked about like a couple
1:20:04it happened F like the Bella it was like
1:20:07we almost gave up trying then she bought
1:20:10me like a super charger in my car and
1:20:12then with CeCe they was like we have to
1:20:14try and try and try and then finally but
1:20:17with Le it was you know once or twice
1:20:20and like two later she's pregnant what
1:20:23happened yes it's just like it was more
1:20:25of like surprise scared I'm like wait
1:20:27what like we just we just we just talked
1:20:30about this like you know you know people
1:20:33have brought up the fact like oh she she
1:20:35was probably pregnant before like you
1:20:37guys even talked about it was like not
1:20:42no like it was insanely fast I give it
1:20:45that like that's the only reason I ever
1:20:46gave that notion like even the moment of
1:20:49thought CU it was like faster than any
1:20:51other time that she' gotten you just
1:20:54didn't seem happy like you know what I
1:20:57mean like I haven't like I don't
1:20:59remember the video much I know she was
1:21:02wearing like a oops we did it again
1:21:04shirt I think and I was walking with my
1:21:07cooler or something I don't remember
1:21:09like my actual like reaction like
1:21:11watching the video but like I could see
1:21:14I could see her see like that didn't
1:21:17seem like he was jumping for joy type
1:21:19thing yeah it didn't seem like
1:21:21that did you watch one of the when I
1:21:23found out about CE oh oh okay it totally
1:21:26different yeah it was yeah yeah it
1:21:30was there a Bella was in the crib and it
1:21:34had an addiction notice on the oh I
1:21:37think you told me about it yeah I never
1:21:38saw him yeah I picked up Bella and spun
1:21:42her around and what not this time it was
1:21:44just me and shenan and she was in a
1:21:46kitchen I don't know like I don't forget
1:21:49what date it was maybe like
1:21:51June
1:21:54third or fifth or sth I'm not sure like
1:21:56what day it was the video but maybe I
1:21:59already felt guilty about talking to
1:22:01Nikki at work yeah maybe maybe that was
1:22:05going through my head is that the
1:22:06potential timing does that make sense
1:22:08okay I don't remember the video what day
1:22:10the video was but I knew like I kind of
1:22:13met Nick here on like June 1st I knew
1:22:15like the she told me like that wordss
1:22:18when you say met her you mean like went
1:22:20on a date with her no no every one I
1:22:23date with her until sh in North Carolina
1:22:26oh okay just like flirting stuff yeah I
1:22:29mean it was natural flirting back back
1:22:31and forth and that was just like I I
1:22:33knew that like with that video timing I
1:22:36probably just looked like I was like
1:22:37felt guilty for even talking I go to
1:22:40work you probably did right
1:22:45yeah did you guys fight before you and
1:22:48Shan I know you talked about like not
1:22:49really raising your voice and stuff was
1:22:51there I want to say didn't a neighbor
1:22:53talk about them fighting and stuff yeah
1:22:56but that was that was embellished and
1:22:58exaggerated and he attracted that oh he
1:23:00ended up doing that did you guys ever
1:23:03fight did you
1:23:04ever was there any domestic violence in
1:23:07your house like oh this is strange to us
1:23:10to even from her to you I mean yeah she
1:23:13gets mad when she's pregnant and grabs a
1:23:15knife or you know like Maxi around or
1:23:19nothing no she never like nothing okay
1:23:22that's what makes all this even more
1:23:24hard to understand my point here too
1:23:27yeah she ever belittle you at all did
1:23:29you ever thr that way maybe was that did
1:23:31you did she ever make you feel like she
1:23:33belittled you or you felt belittled by
1:23:35her I
1:23:37mean there's always points like in in a
1:23:40marriage where like you know the
1:23:41dominant person like you know takes
1:23:42control of sure or but like I was my
1:23:46whole life I just kind of went with the
1:23:48flow like I never I never like put
1:23:50myself in the center of attention didn't
1:23:52want to be yeah I just kind of I just
1:23:56wanted to be in the back
1:23:59row so I me if she did belittle me I
1:24:02couldn't pick of Point Pi that point her
1:24:05time she never really felt that way no I
1:24:07mean I I mean I always knew I was like
1:24:09you know the invert and she was the you
1:24:13she took control of most situations like
1:24:15when people came over like you know I
1:24:17knew what I my role was yeah like I
1:24:20watch videos of like like you know or
1:24:23she'd make like power balls or you know
1:24:25like protein balls or you just don't
1:24:28seem like you want to be in those videos
1:24:30like you feel I feel like you were being
1:24:31forced to be in those videos and correct
1:24:33me if I'm wrong but that's what it
1:24:35seemed like to be hated be
1:24:37in I mean I did it because for her
1:24:40because was for for business and stuff
1:24:42but like it
1:24:43was no I I didn't I just being out for
1:24:47everybody to see that's why like the
1:24:49whole
1:24:50like the gender real thing I was just
1:24:54like I I didn't want it to be like some
1:24:56live Facebook video I'm just like no
1:25:00yeah but like I just I never wanted to
1:25:02be out there but I know I'm like well
1:25:05even when she was we talk about this a
1:25:07lot Tammy and I day even when it was you
1:25:10know I think it was Florida on some Le
1:25:13LEL or Thrive thing and she's like here
1:25:15we are and it's all expenses paid and oh
1:25:18was like I thinking like he is not into
1:25:20this video right now no you don't look
1:25:23into any of the videos I'll be honest
1:25:25with you that wouldn't be either
1:25:27yeah yeah I mean I remember you're
1:25:30talking about like she would even post
1:25:32stuff for you like you're te me a
1:25:34Salesman too of L of thri like she put
1:25:38me underneath her that like anything
1:25:40like any of my friends or stuff like
1:25:43anything I do would help her right so it
1:25:46was just know I would to her pictures
1:25:49like should take a picture with your
1:25:51patch like okay send it to her and then
1:25:53she'd make a post about it she would
1:25:55she'd eventually she was like I you to
1:25:57take more control over like your
1:25:59business and stuff I'm just like I don't
1:26:00know what to talk about right like if I
1:26:03want to talk about talk to somebody at
1:26:04the mall or at the pool or somebody
1:26:06about this I just stumble all over my
1:26:08words and just like they like okay bye
1:26:11but no yeah yeah I'm not SES man Jesus
1:26:14shees I mean she could sell everything
1:26:17you're wearing back to you right and you
1:26:20wouldn't even know like wa I just PID
1:26:23I paid bucks for
1:26:25it yeah it's those videos were not me I
1:26:29just I did it just just still support
1:26:31her you know like she could you tell her
1:26:34no could you say I don't want to be in
1:26:36that video or was that an option
1:26:39probably not I mean it's like you know
1:26:41she would have been like what this is to
1:26:43you know help our family this is for you
1:26:45know to help this not so I could told
1:26:48her no I me they would just they would
1:26:50have made her mad I like
1:26:53I would I wouldn't really start that
1:26:55just because it's for the business it's
1:26:57for the family I was just going to try
1:26:59to help out whatever we can right did
1:27:01that actually make money M so not only
1:27:05just more sales but it actually put
1:27:07money in your guys'
1:27:09pocket and she made probably probably in
1:27:12that last year probably as as much as I
1:27:14did un commmission basically I mean I
1:27:17know that's a simplified version of it
1:27:18but y I mean it's uh they don't take
1:27:20taxes out on it so right
1:27:23so that was like the good thing me they
1:27:25paid for your
1:27:27car did they give you anlet for an
1:27:30allowance or something to buy a car you
1:27:33you're a certain level like 12K or above
1:27:35they give you car allowance once a
1:27:41month I'm not sure how they how they
1:27:43made money the owner doing that but they
1:27:47did yeah unless there just like an
1:27:49insane markup on the product which I'm
1:27:51there is probably that's not sure how
1:27:53much much it cost from to make it did
1:27:55you feel like a different person wearing
1:27:57those patches especially like the the
1:28:00duo the burn I mean it felt I mean like
1:28:04the Apple watches like if you look on it
1:28:06like when it tell you to exercise
1:28:08exercise went like all day cuz my heart
1:28:11rate was like up oh just from those
1:28:14patches was full caffeine or what uh
1:28:17they just have something they had
1:28:18something in them I mean I the Black
1:28:20Label ones the the longer Black on
1:28:22they those had caffeine in them but it
1:28:24never had that effect I mean the doo
1:28:26earn ones the ones that are more like
1:28:27The Fat Loss type it was I could it felt
1:28:31like I was working out all day even
1:28:33though I was oh were you
1:28:36tired I mean I know at some points I I
1:28:39mean even Nikki said that like no I'd
1:28:41fall asleep on the couch oh on her couch
1:28:44while I was talking to her and then like
1:28:46picked back up like I was like I never
1:28:48knew I fell asleep which I don't know if
1:28:50it like an insomnia thing or what what
1:28:52like I I wasn't
1:28:54TR you had a lot going on
1:28:58then yeah yeah those was are the only
1:29:00patches I really felt like real
1:29:02different just because it felt like like
1:29:05I working out all day
1:29:07MH you don't feel like they changed your
1:29:10personality or anything like that though
1:29:13or do you I I know I know I just spell
1:29:17different on those in any other batch it
1:29:20was but like I just go longer and longer
1:29:23each day and I'm not sure like if that
1:29:25was that was probably a bad thing I
1:29:27don't think I was probably State more
1:29:30three hours
1:29:32honey so would you stay at when Shan was
1:29:35gone would you stay with Nikki and then
1:29:37go home for like to get ready
1:29:40what yeah I just wake up at like 4: 4:30
1:29:43and go home and get ready for work and
1:29:47compl I just work out when I got back
1:29:49home
1:29:50mhm what are the conversations with
1:29:53Nikki as far as
1:29:56um at some point you guys were talking
1:29:59about her helping you find an
1:30:01apartment so what did you guys talk
1:30:03about as far as your future
1:30:05together that didn't really happen so
1:30:08like I got back from back from the beach
1:30:12so I told her like I you know I lied to
1:30:15her like hey you know like I like I had
1:30:18talked to shanan about getting a
1:30:20separation and that hadn't happened yet
1:30:23I mean it kind of
1:30:25like not she knew something was going on
1:30:27and mean we we weren't sleeping in the
1:30:29same room and then she she you know she
1:30:32even mentioned the fact like hey you
1:30:33know know Colorado's 50 state or
1:30:36something like
1:30:37that okay guess she looked it up but you
1:30:41know that actual talk I like act I was
1:30:44just like I thought it was GNA happen
1:30:48yeah and so in conversations with Nikki
1:30:52I get it I mean you're telling her like
1:30:54the progress toward the divorce is a
1:30:56little bit more than it was and then so
1:30:59what were you guys planing so it was
1:31:01more of like U she's going to help me
1:31:03find a apartment that was affordable
1:31:06this is kind just around like Brighton
1:31:07or maybe just close to work like for
1:31:11left in or something around there
1:31:13doesn't kind like where my area was did
1:31:16you talk about moving in with her she
1:31:18she didn't want that she didn't want
1:31:20that would you have done that if she
1:31:21would have been go with that
1:31:24uh that been little too soon I would
1:31:27have thought there was just you know we
1:31:30only been really seeing each other like
1:31:32almost like a month or I just talk about
1:31:34two months that would really she she
1:31:37called her house like her apartment like
1:31:40her I don't know like her kind of like a
1:31:43shield or kind of like her she had
1:31:46another word for it but in her safe
1:31:48place yeah like a safe place or
1:31:49something like that and she like you
1:31:52know people like to invade it but that's
1:31:54why she always let me come over because
1:31:55she said she felt like it was that was
1:31:58fine like her dog liked me and
1:31:59everything like she say you know just
1:32:02ship people off here type thing like
1:32:05okay so you and Shannon did you did you
1:32:08and talk about selling the house at what
1:32:11point did you there was some discussion
1:32:14there with yeah she had sent an email
1:32:16about to Ann about like how we would go
1:32:18about like s the house and I think Ann
1:32:21told her about you know get like P was
1:32:23always about getting
1:32:24preapproved just like you know like if
1:32:26you're going to sell your house get
1:32:27pre-approved for like another house so
1:32:29it's like you know much
1:32:31faster yeah quickly transition that when
1:32:35did that happen remember thinking it was
1:32:38either right before we left no that Happ
1:32:41been like first week of August somewhere
1:32:43around there I think she might have
1:32:44contacted
1:32:45her a plan was maybe to buy a house I
1:32:48think you told me in Brighton you think
1:32:49about buying a house bright like like
1:32:52that that Adams 12 school system or
1:32:55something so okay I I think that's what
1:32:59bright
1:33:03yeah what were you thinking about when
1:33:05you called that the school that day one
1:33:08day I was freaking out I didn't know
1:33:11like like I was thinking in my head like
1:33:13what I just did what I just done and I
1:33:16didn't know
1:33:18like it was it was it was stupid to do
1:33:21anything just I mean to call the school
1:33:24to call an to call anybody I
1:33:29mean they were right to be you know
1:33:33suspicious about anything look I KN I
1:33:35probably sounded eccentric on the phone
1:33:37and out of out of sorts and
1:33:47just I don't even know what they were
1:33:49thinking they heard me
1:33:52I think they thought it was weird but I
1:33:54don't know how you would not sound weird
1:33:55you know like you said
1:34:00so so are you 100% sure the girls were
1:34:05still around and alive when you drove
1:34:08out okay so that's completely accurate
1:34:11there's nothing nothing else about that
1:34:13they they got in the truck
1:34:17okay where did the blanket go did
1:34:22it's probably in the trash can or
1:34:23something think in trash it wasn't like
1:34:27it was still in my truck okay we thought
1:34:31we saw some GPS where you would stop by
1:34:33near a construction a rolloff dumpster
1:34:36is that true or I think yeah I think
1:34:37that's like I dump my clothes in there
1:34:41so that would been on way back to the
1:34:43house my neighborhood yeah when officer
1:34:48kunard was
1:34:49there was one of those red Construction
1:34:51Dumpsters more than likely okay did you
1:34:54pack new
1:34:56clothes how did that work I already have
1:34:58some in there cuz like in case we have
1:34:59like a spill or something you get cre
1:35:01oil on you you
1:35:03don't yeah I like I have like I have
1:35:06like two pairs of boobs uh oh stuff in
1:35:08there just because like I just one time
1:35:11I had to Pi up a spill and I defrost on
1:35:13and I had like a headache for like two
1:35:15weeks cuz like the oil that
1:35:17come so I always have something there so
1:35:21where did you keep them after you took
1:35:22them off like did you just change out
1:35:24there into your new other so like I D my
1:35:27clothes not dumpster but that wasn't
1:35:30that on the way back when you were
1:35:32coming like you had already worked the
1:35:34whole day I wor well I'd worked like
1:35:36till like 11 or so yeah so that was back
1:35:40when well when ni ainson yeah when she
1:35:43was my house the door do at the house
1:35:47right did you think right then like oh
1:35:50[ __ ] like here we go or what would you
1:35:52think I didn't know why she was there I
1:35:55was like I didn't know like
1:35:57maybe maybe she had an appointment or
1:35:59something with shenan I didn't know what
1:36:01did you think like that day like what
1:36:03you were going to say like what was your
1:36:05plan were you just going to go home and
1:36:07be like report to the police that your
1:36:09family's gone or once I had no idea what
1:36:13was going to happen like after
1:36:15everything I mean I don't even know how
1:36:17it was even acting even normal to people
1:36:20that was around
1:36:22because when like Troy and Cody and Chad
1:36:25and Melissa and all them like you know
1:36:27when they showed up on the site I don't
1:36:28even know I was
1:36:30even being somewhat even hearing what I
1:36:33was saying but apparently sh
1:36:36me I didn't know what was going to
1:36:38happen like I said this wasn't like
1:36:40something like some Criminal Minds type
1:36:45like that out yeah it wasn't nothing by
1:36:48minute at that point I had no idea what
1:36:53looks so once the girls were were
1:36:56gone um was it also just a minute by-
1:36:59minute thing as far as the oil tanks
1:37:02yeah I didn't know what what to do I
1:37:05mean I just thinking about an oil tank
1:37:08just makes me want want to throw
1:37:11up and was that just because it was in
1:37:14front of you and there it was and just
1:37:15presented itself it wasn't a plan
1:37:19beforehand okay
1:37:22was there any reason why the separate
1:37:26ones no like you said it was like a
1:37:30going up just going upstairs
1:37:34didn't no like what Frank said is like I
1:37:36was trying to separate everybody I no no
1:37:39I don't want to separate anybody what
1:37:41was that reason I can't even tell you
1:37:44was like like I said like something else
1:37:46was on control of what I was doing and
1:37:48it was like I was doing something I
1:37:50never thought I would in my
1:37:53life did you think there would be less
1:37:56chance of someone finding them if they
1:37:58were in separate tanks
1:38:08or whatever whatever my reasoning was in
1:38:12my head that day would it what sound
1:38:15nothing was right and you don't even
1:38:16remember thinking about it no it was
1:38:18just like it was like a reaction
1:38:22those something that I wasn't even
1:38:24thinking about
1:38:25yeah you talk about the trash bags do
1:38:28you remember
1:38:30that oh with
1:38:33a May two oh with okay yeah trying to
1:38:38cuz like this she kept I didn't want to
1:38:41like when when I was putting one here I
1:38:44guess thing I had like I didn't want the
1:38:46girls looking at
1:38:48shenan while they were in the back seat
1:38:50and so what' you
1:38:52do put a trash bag on one end and on her
1:38:57feet on her head so they didn't have to
1:39:01see and they were just too little to
1:39:03kind of figure out
1:39:04right okay
1:39:08that's I just know like when I was
1:39:10driving up there I mean you know they
1:39:13were just you know sitting there just
1:39:15you
1:39:16know kind of asleep or kind of just like
1:39:18you know holding on to each other
1:39:19Landing each other's laps
1:39:21I
1:39:27didn't you remember having any thoughts
1:39:30or thinking about why not just putting
1:39:32them all together with
1:39:34shenan it was happening so fast I had no
1:39:37time really thought that
1:39:40was my
1:39:45own that wasn't like dutifully trying to
1:39:49separate anybody passing away trying to
1:39:52keep anybody
1:39:57separate and everything everything you
1:39:59know Frank Sandy and Franklin said like
1:40:01I I don't hold it against them I mean
1:40:04they can hate me
1:40:05for they they have a right to hate me
1:40:08for the rest of their lives they don't
1:40:09hate they don't SL we're on the subject
1:40:12I I speak with them weekly and and I
1:40:15told them that we were going to come
1:40:17here and then hopefully would speak with
1:40:18us and they told me to tell you
1:40:22understandably they're you know
1:40:24they're
1:40:26devastated uh but they actually said
1:40:28that they they love you they still love
1:40:30you and and Sandy explained it you know
1:40:34he's he's our son son-in-law for eight
1:40:37years I can't just turn that off so they
1:40:39don't hate you they
1:40:41don't that's amazing to hear that yeah
1:40:44well and I can tell you Sandy was was
1:40:48was the one that was most resistant to
1:40:52penalties in this case and she said that
1:40:55she told me that from the very beginning
1:40:58that she didn't want that it's God's
1:40:59decision it's not her decision and then
1:41:01she told me that even then so it's not
1:41:03just a one-time thing that that she has
1:41:04said it to me um it's been over the
1:41:07whole course of the event so um that's
1:41:11probably one of the most honest things
1:41:12someone's ever told me you know so it's
1:41:15it's pretty amazing know theyth
1:41:19think she obviously believe or so am I I
1:41:22get it so I understand
1:41:24it that's amazing hear that
1:41:27yeah good people I I would have figured
1:41:30they would have hated me
1:41:32for they
1:41:34don't I mean yeah anybody would think
1:41:37that I certainly would have but I have
1:41:41to admit I was surprised take him back
1:41:43by that but they certainly
1:41:47don't what they say when they knew you
1:41:49were coming out here um they just they
1:41:52said they want to know no details
1:41:55because they need closure and that's
1:41:58really all they want and they want to
1:42:00keep it private and I said
1:42:03absolutely we'll talk to them about what
1:42:05you told us and just so they can put it
1:42:08past them because they're having a hard
1:42:10time dealing with it and trying to get
1:42:11past it all and um and I think that may
1:42:15help just
1:42:17to closures
1:42:19no
1:42:23my parents still think you know like I
1:42:25told them I play guilty for a reason
1:42:27right right and like I told it to them
1:42:30when they had that um video video phone
1:42:34thing in Colorado the day before like I
1:42:36play think like I didn't just you know I
1:42:40knew other people were watching I didn't
1:42:43just go on to say
1:42:46anything like they seem
1:42:49to take it okay what made you do that
1:42:53Chris what made you plead guilty I
1:42:56didn't want anybody else to I didn't
1:42:57want them to go through this for two or
1:42:59four years I didn't want my attorneys to
1:43:02lie for me for four for two four years
1:43:05like they I mean they would have done
1:43:06anything I told them to do sure that's
1:43:08what they're I don't see how they can do
1:43:10that like you know that's what attorneys
1:43:13do you know like they take their
1:43:14defendant and they say like what
1:43:16happened okay we'll go with that story
1:43:18like I told them everything I just told
1:43:20you guys
1:43:21and it's just
1:43:22like they just they got together they're
1:43:25like well if you know if if they ever
1:43:28wanted they ever offered a plea deal
1:43:30would you ever wanted like just to
1:43:32guilty to I'm like yeah I mean if we can
1:43:34end this send it like I was like in
1:43:37September I told him that really yeah
1:43:40they like but you know it was way too
1:43:41early and prosecution was still doing
1:43:44their this guy used to grabbing evidence
1:43:46and all kinds of stuff
1:43:48and that wasn't even on way on the table
1:43:51so I think it was in like around
1:43:54Halloween I think that's when the the
1:43:57prosecution went
1:43:58to Frank and Sanity and Frankie's house
1:44:02and it's talking like if we can end this
1:44:04would you be open to that and that's
1:44:06from like you know like the whole death
1:44:08penalty and everything all that right
1:44:09conversation
1:44:10happened and um I guess they were
1:44:14surprised that it would just be over
1:44:17yeah and we were all in shock I'm not
1:44:20going know why yeah that was like it's
1:44:22like we were going 100 miles an hour and
1:44:23then we just hit a brick wall like
1:44:25that's what it felt like to all of us so
1:44:27I mean obviously you had more time to
1:44:28yeah I mean contemplate I was I mean I
1:44:31told I told John Kate and siia and
1:44:34everybody I mean he if we can just stop
1:44:37this and like I know it's you know
1:44:39everybody's telling me to fight fight
1:44:41this you know there's no
1:44:43like there's like they're about saying
1:44:46there's like not enough evidence to such
1:44:48this this and that I'm just like no
1:44:51this needs to end like I don't want
1:44:53people to have to because for Frank and
1:44:56everybody to have to fly back to
1:44:57Colorado every single time and get
1:45:00reminded of this like sure it's never
1:45:03going to go away but they actually have
1:45:05to come and talk about how other people
1:45:07talk about it have you know pel three of
1:45:09you get on the witness on the witness
1:45:10stand and say you know what they saw
1:45:13what they've seen you what what they
1:45:15they heard on tapes and everything like
1:45:17that it's just like I don't want people
1:45:18to relive that over and over and over
1:45:21again for for years like if I could just
1:45:26end this for everybody and then like
1:45:29there's any closure at all that could
1:45:31you know it could start then instead of
1:45:33like
1:45:352022 right know like everything it's
1:45:38like so I know it' only get worse for
1:45:41everybody so did it have anything to do
1:45:43with you not having the death penalty no
1:45:47like I mean honestly like when I was
1:45:48sitting in that cell I felt like I
1:45:50should di I mean I I was listening to
1:45:52everybody telling me like hey if you do
1:45:55this and this you can hang yourself in
1:45:57that cell you could do this and that
1:45:59they were like telling you stuff you
1:46:00could B yourself in the toilet if you
1:46:02wanted to throw a toilet B up or
1:46:03something like that it was F they've
1:46:06been there a bunch of times and like you
1:46:09know I was at one point I was listening
1:46:11to them and I was like you know you know
1:46:16I just felt like maybe I could maybe
1:46:17there's a different purpose for me
1:46:18somewhere you know maybe it's here I
1:46:22don't know like I prayed to God every
1:46:24day that he would move me away from
1:46:26Colorado like it move me away from like
1:46:28the DC there because I just knew like
1:46:30they were saying there was a hit on me
1:46:32they said if I was going to a DC in
1:46:34Colorado like i' last a week and i' be
1:46:36dead because like the gangs and all that
1:46:39kind of stuff so like I just felt like
1:46:41God moved me here for a
1:46:43reason hopefully I can help people that
1:46:46way but like I didn't want my family I
1:46:47didn't want sh family all our friends
1:46:49like you know having to go through that
1:46:51because after a while I knew it was like
1:46:54this stuff was everywhere and I knew
1:46:56like all her Thrive friends everybody it
1:46:58was just like it would just it would
1:47:01just broke put that h p in their hearts
1:47:03a little bit bigger at the time I didn't
1:47:05want that so I knew it would have gotten
1:47:08worse I didn't want I didn't want it to
1:47:11get any worse than I already
1:47:13was did you ever think
1:47:16about Welly you know it could be very
1:47:19believable what I told him it could be
1:47:21very believable that shenan did you know
1:47:24and the
1:47:25girls so maybe if I tried to convince
1:47:28people that maybe if I fought with my
1:47:30attorneys on that maybe I could lessen
1:47:32it somehow did you ever think about that
1:47:34honestly I never even thought about the
1:47:35story until you guys mentioned it
1:47:38yeah okay I wonder I never thought about
1:47:42so you guys mentioned it what did you
1:47:43think about it once it got
1:47:46mentioned like I just went with it I
1:47:49didn't like you know I knew my dad was
1:47:51out there I knew it was like you know I
1:47:53knew they would probably believe it
1:47:55because you know my mom and my sister
1:47:57just never really like [ __ ] in I KN like
1:48:00you
1:48:01know I
1:48:03mean through all this like I got letters
1:48:05from some of my friends even said you
1:48:06know you know when we to your house we
1:48:08can see you know sh more dominant
1:48:10personality and more of like you know
1:48:12you know you're always helping with the
1:48:14kids and everything just you know you're
1:48:15a great dad and everything we could see
1:48:17you know couple things that I never saw
1:48:19or you know whatnot even my best friend
1:48:21marking say you know there's always you
1:48:22know something you know I didn't really
1:48:24get with she had I was like nobody told
1:48:27me any of this stuff but okay but yeah
1:48:29it was I never thought about that story
1:48:32and you know that's what my trains were
1:48:34going with and then like I think it
1:48:38was probably the second week I told him
1:48:41like what really
1:48:43happened what' they say after that
1:48:46they're quiet they're writing it down
1:48:50they
1:48:51were they they said they wouldn't judge
1:48:54me so I told them I told them everything
1:48:57that
1:48:59happened and they you know appreciated
1:49:03like I guess you know most of the time
1:49:04you know their defendant or their don't
1:49:08like tell them actually what happened no
1:49:10they just you know tell them all right
1:49:12get get me out get me out of here this
1:49:14is what happened but I told them what
1:49:16happened I I didn't want them going if
1:49:18this was going to go like anywhere in
1:49:20courts I didn't want them to be under a
1:49:22false pretense and
1:49:24like get surprised so I know like there
1:49:28was probably things that you guys
1:49:30probably knew that maybe if I if I just
1:49:34kept if I lied at up and just not this
1:49:36is what happened that it would have like
1:49:39made them look you know foolish and
1:49:42stupid and just like you know unprepared
1:49:43and I'm just like this is what
1:49:45happened and they you know they
1:49:47appreciated me telling me telling them
1:49:49that so now they they would be prepared
1:49:51and that's when they were saying like
1:49:53you know if if it was ever you know if
1:49:56we ever went to them the prosecution say
1:49:59if we could end
1:50:00this would I be open to it i' like it
1:50:03could end ending I know there was like
1:50:06um wasn't her phone found on the couch
1:50:08or between the couch cushions like did
1:50:10you plant all that stuff threw it in
1:50:12there you just threw it in there why why
1:50:14did you do
1:50:16that I don't know what was going on that
1:50:18morning like even like you know her
1:50:21watch her phone like I you know that was
1:50:23actually like if I planned this I would
1:50:25probably taken out to the field you know
1:50:27what about her ring and stuff what were
1:50:29you thinking about that it's like you
1:50:31know maybe she wanted maybe she actually
1:50:34really wanted a divorce maybe she didn't
1:50:35want to fix it put there on the counter
1:50:38she took it off or did you take it off I
1:50:40took it off
1:50:41okay oh so that would look like she was
1:50:44saying I want to divorce I'm leaving it
1:50:45here when I take it
1:50:47off I so the phone in her watch in the
1:50:52couch was that that morning before you
1:50:54left to go to sery yeah I think of the
1:50:58Cole's Sun found it or something yeah
1:51:01what other things did you do that maybe
1:51:03we even
1:51:07missed watch
1:51:10yeah think I thre
1:51:13the therapy books she wanted me to read
1:51:16in the trash that was that
1:51:18morning uh probably I think so were you
1:51:21trying to make it look like she threw it
1:51:23in the trash I don't I don't know I just
1:51:25I just didn't think it nothing going to
1:51:27work again so
1:51:29was I didn't know what was going on did
1:51:32you go down to the
1:51:34basement I thought the basement door
1:51:36open yeah the doors open but yeah so
1:51:40there was a lot of movement you know I
1:51:43think it was around 426 or
1:51:46something the garage door opening the
1:51:48basement door opening and then of course
1:51:50the W sensors and all do you remember
1:51:52what you're were doing all during that
1:51:54time you had a lot of steps I'll just
1:51:56say
1:51:57that so like the basement I'm not sure I
1:52:00mean only thing I really have down there
1:52:01is my workout my the bench
1:52:06press do you remember going down there
1:52:09for anything or opening that door for
1:52:11anything did you think about well maybe
1:52:13I'll take her out that way or is it a
1:52:15walk out basement no was it not your
1:52:17house okay it's like a garden level
1:52:19basement
1:52:21but
1:52:23don't plus I don't think it worked out
1:52:26that moment like were you packing your
1:52:28lunch in the kitchen like did you do all
1:52:30that normal stuff okay
1:52:35lunch did all that but I don't I don't
1:52:38remember about the
1:52:41basement plus I just worked out that
1:52:43morning I just don't remember I think I
1:52:48did so one of the or plus there was a
1:52:50trash bag down there that you got trash
1:52:53bags from there may maybe maybe there
1:52:56wasn't even garage I went down I got one
1:52:59do you normally carry a roll of trash
1:53:00bags in your truck
1:53:02no so there was a roll in the truck yeah
1:53:06maybe I just grabbed it and brought it
1:53:07with me that would have been kept in the
1:53:09basement maybe or
1:53:14the I'm sorry what were you saying gr um
1:53:19one of the more
1:53:20kind of poignant or Tender moments and
1:53:22all of this was seeing with your dad
1:53:25when he came
1:53:26in um what was it like when you picked
1:53:30him up at the
1:53:32airport it
1:53:34was it was very strange it was it was
1:53:38kind of like I almost knew this probably
1:53:40the last time I'd ever see him on the
1:53:43outside in my head I knew that
1:53:46yeah what' you guys talk about
1:53:50honestly like he just wanted to talk
1:53:52about sports he just want he just like
1:53:54you know he he's always a kind of like
1:53:58you know distance himself from like like
1:54:01a problem type thing like you know when
1:54:04like if there was ever an issue or
1:54:05anything like that he always want to
1:54:06talk about like just bring up like when
1:54:08I was trying to get him to quit smoking
1:54:10like all the time like that's after like
1:54:14I graduated high school and whatnot he
1:54:15would are you talking about cigarettes
1:54:17yeah okay and uh
1:54:20he would always like just change so like
1:54:22oh you happened in the race uh football
1:54:24just something I mean he he just never
1:54:27wanted like you know he said okay yeah
1:54:29I'll get to it and he was Bo something
1:54:32else and you know I just kind of felt
1:54:34like it was kind of like that you know
1:54:35like he he asked maybe asked like a few
1:54:37questions like you know do you know
1:54:38where they're at you think you know
1:54:41think you know where they're at or
1:54:42anything like that you know don't
1:54:45know and then like start talking about
1:54:48just want talking about for just like
1:54:50nor nor things just kind of I'm not sure
1:54:53if he maybe knew anything you know maybe
1:54:56he kind of figured out something maybe
1:54:57happen just want to talk to me that son
1:55:01is it possible he saw that you were in a
1:55:03stressful situation and wanted to do
1:55:05what he always did make things
1:55:07comfortable I think that was good way to
1:55:10put I think he picked up a lot of
1:55:15that yeah because I me stressful
1:55:17situations like I I mean the Great to
1:55:20show it but like I i' try not to be in
1:55:23stress but you know it's like you know I
1:55:26worked on cars there's a lot of stress
1:55:28it's always you know it's on commission
1:55:30you know you get paid what you do not by
1:55:31showing
1:55:33up so that Darko was a little less
1:55:36stressful you know I got paid just to be
1:55:40there was your dad's marriage like yours
1:55:43and Shan's marriage as far as like your
1:55:45dad was the more passive one and your
1:55:48mom was always the more aggressive one
1:55:52was she like shenan in a way I mean were
1:55:54you attracted to shenan because she was
1:55:55kind of like TI your mom and dad's
1:55:57relationship was or it was like it it
1:56:01almost mirrored like her mom and dad's
1:56:02relationship honestly because her dad's
1:56:04like my dad they're both like kind of
1:56:06calm cool I could see that yeah Sandy
1:56:10rules that Roost oh yeah yeah very and
1:56:13it's just like you know I kind of
1:56:15related it to that because like her mom
1:56:18always said like she she always told
1:56:20shenan that she would marry somebody
1:56:22that was kind of like her dad I felt
1:56:24like I was kind of like her dad I mean I
1:56:26wasn't like you know couldn't build a
1:56:28lot of things he could but you know our
1:56:29personalities were kind of like you know
1:56:31I was always know I think he really
1:56:33liked me the first time he met me
1:56:35because like I was um helping helping
1:56:38Shan with this uh she had got this car
1:56:41from the dealership that she work that
1:56:42she worked at and she driv around and
1:56:44felt like you know the wheel want to
1:56:45fall off and uh I pulled over where her
1:56:49dad was was and I was I got that jacked
1:56:51it up and I was like you know trying to
1:56:53fix everything he's saying like any
1:56:55other guy she ever dated would have just
1:56:57like stood by and watched me do it and
1:57:00so that's when he really like kind of
1:57:02kind of liked
1:57:03me like I was I was always want to help
1:57:06people not to hurt
1:57:10anybody well and you helped her all
1:57:12through lupus and you're have to calling
1:57:13out the be and you're jacking up the car
1:57:16yeah I mean anytime she had an issue
1:57:18with like car at the 30 South cus like I
1:57:21just out to work see what I could do
1:57:23with it you know just do whatever I
1:57:25could to help yeah well I think one of
1:57:28the reasons Frank and Sandy work so well
1:57:30is because Frank let Sandy Sandy yeah
1:57:33and they probably both thought on you
1:57:34that you let shabi Shan yeah I just like
1:57:36you know I didn't I didn't try to change
1:57:37her right I just let her be you know who
1:57:40she is yeah she's like you know she's G
1:57:43ho she
1:57:44said she knows what she wants she's
1:57:46going to go get it yeah and I didn't say
1:57:49hey know you can't do that that's what
1:57:50it first s him yeah she he controlled
1:57:52everything he he tried to be Sandy it
1:57:56didn't work and she and she turned into
1:57:59almost like me she was
1:58:01like she just kind of like like lay back
1:58:03and just kind of like let him do what
1:58:05you then I think she learned after that
1:58:08that she can just be herself then with
1:58:10me she do be
1:58:12herself so that's how it
1:58:14worked so do you think your dad had any
1:58:17inor cuz I'm trying to remember the
1:58:19timing you showed up when you were still
1:58:22walking around you weren't in any
1:58:23trouble yet Ronnie came in yeah I was I
1:58:26had met with you the night before like
1:58:28three or four
1:58:29hours and then I was at Nick and
1:58:31Amanda's house went there and that's
1:58:35when I went to go picked him up okay and
1:58:37you picked him up it was early in that
1:58:39morning right it was like 10:30 I think
1:58:40when his FL came in okay and then so
1:58:42from there I you guys probably drove
1:58:44home and then to the police station yep
1:58:47and the the talks there were
1:58:50no type of confession from you okay no
1:58:53it was like just he was just going to
1:58:55wait like you know you know was like
1:58:58that barbecue Jo com Street like know
1:59:00it's good he was know he told me he
1:59:02never left he didn't I wasn't lying yeah
1:59:05he's faithful he was I I don't know how
1:59:07he lasted that long without food we
1:59:10ended up giving him food
1:59:12okay he was great um and the reason I
1:59:16asked is because when I look back at
1:59:17watching the video um
1:59:20um now knowing what I know after talking
1:59:22to you today I can see how genuine he
1:59:24was but I just didn't know if you guys
1:59:26had come up with some sort of plan kind
1:59:30no we never even talk I
1:59:33hope if I had told him anything he would
1:59:35have prob told me tell him by way I
1:59:38think you're right he would have still
1:59:40loved me either way but he would have
1:59:41told me he need to tell like right now
1:59:44yeah you don't I mean I didn't think I
1:59:46was going to be there for 14 or hour
1:59:48long I was like an hour or so day you
1:59:51were there a long time yeah but it
1:59:54was he would have told me just to say
1:59:57just tell you yeah did you know walking
1:59:59in there that you were GNA tell us or
2:00:02did you think I didn't I mean I knew
2:00:05there was a reason you got me back in I
2:00:07know well for the um what you think
2:00:10about the polygraph that was horrible
2:00:13why' you say that I don't know how you
2:00:14do that why' you say that cuz Tammy's a
2:00:17torturer I'm not oh
2:00:20you answered oh you asked me questions
2:00:22for like what like three or four hours
2:00:24beforehand and then you do the polygraph
2:00:26and it's like you just break down
2:00:27somebody's brain to where like to much
2:00:29or
2:00:31what yell and it's just like
2:00:34I I know it's it's you guys have a job
2:00:37and you have a plan and that's you
2:00:38executed it so she's thorough right
2:00:40there's just no there's no way to get
2:00:42out of there without the truth no I mean
2:00:44I kind of knew like where cuz right when
2:00:48I you asked me about like Saturday night
2:00:50the I told your brother walking I was
2:00:52like man she was like going
2:00:56through well we did know we found out
2:00:58about Nikki right before the polygraph I
2:01:02I I figured that out after after with
2:01:05meeting with John and everybody that she
2:01:07had met with somebody from the
2:01:09CBI like like on the 14th or the 15th I
2:01:12was just like they were talk oh okay so
2:01:17you already knew so but
2:01:19I mean I didn't know how extensive it
2:01:21was but yes we we knew yeah I mean I
2:01:26walking in there that day just walking
2:01:27into that room I knew I wasn't walking
2:01:29out yeah just just a feeling I had
2:01:32walking in that room yeah just you know
2:01:35I mean I don't remember if the polygraph
2:01:36stuff was already in there I think it
2:01:37was it was yeah but it was I knew it I
2:01:41just felt I just feel like sometimes
2:01:42when people you know do do the bad thing
2:01:47and they stay like
2:01:49some part of me thinks well I think
2:01:51they're here because they really want to
2:01:52tell us what happened because it's not
2:01:54normal that you want to keep all that in
2:01:56like that just kills people on the
2:01:58inside and I could tell it was killing
2:02:00you that day yeah I mean it was like
2:02:03that 13th when I slept in the house it
2:02:06didn't nothing I didn't know think i'
2:02:08slept maybe like two hours CU I just
2:02:09finally just got so tired I just fell
2:02:11asleep I after had every light
2:02:13on I didn't I nothing felt right what
2:02:17were you thinking about during your
2:02:18media interviews I didn't want to do it
2:02:22why did you do it did you feel like you
2:02:23had to do it I felt like you know they
2:02:27would have just kept knocking on my door
2:02:29if until I answered it and like I didn't
2:02:32even set it up but know Nicole ainson
2:02:34said it up she told me hey foxy set it
2:02:37up she said foxy going be your house at
2:02:3910:30 like what like
2:02:43okay and you know I think I even called
2:02:46I even called you about it like what do
2:02:47you recommend that I do and he like it's
2:02:49kind up to you like okay and I called
2:02:54one of her friends you know what should
2:02:55I do and well she said I probably
2:02:59wouldn't do it but I just felt like you
2:03:02know
2:03:03what I I don't even want to know what I
2:03:05said what I looked like on there because
2:03:07I knew some people said it just it just
2:03:10made it look even worse after the fact
2:03:13but it it didn't look good but I mean
2:03:16obviously we can't say oh we knew right
2:03:19then he was lying but I think we all
2:03:21watched it together
2:03:22and went this might be
2:03:27bad I had that feeling after I watched
2:03:30it well I could kind of see it in your
2:03:34face it's like I was just flying to more
2:03:37and more people and it was just like I
2:03:40just do you have internet access
2:03:44here no so don't don't get into that
2:03:47trap but BR then
2:03:52social media TR and all that they don't
2:03:54they don't let you have social media
2:03:57go I think some of the GP guys are
2:03:59getting like these little like tablets
2:04:01or something that are like you know Sid
2:04:03like a older iPhone or something I think
2:04:06like email but I'm I'm not sure about
2:04:08like social Med no definitely no social
2:04:10media not sure about internet or not but
2:04:13this place is kind of like you know a
2:04:14dead zone five anyways I would think I
2:04:17don't know we're getting which is weird
2:04:20yeah I didn't think we would right here
2:04:22right this maybe this is kind of like a
2:04:26h the spot computer room you would hope
2:04:30they did you talk to um Nikki afterwards
2:04:33after all this happened
2:04:36on 13 on the yeah 13 on the 14th what
2:04:39how what was that conversation like it
2:04:42was the 13th kind of like you know it
2:04:45was more text and then maybe a phone
2:04:47call like a
2:04:49your phone call and
2:04:52then she just she thought maybe Chan
2:04:55like took off with the kids like just
2:04:57you know because I that I was telling I
2:04:58didn't know where they were and all that
2:05:00and in the 14th they she kind of
2:05:03like think she kind of thought something
2:05:06may have happened because they hadn't
2:05:07come back why do you say that she might
2:05:10have thought that her you know she kept
2:05:13asking me like some weird questions like
2:05:17she kept asking like
2:05:19questions that only I would know but she
2:05:21was testing to see if like it was
2:05:23actually me on the
2:05:24phone like what do you mean like she
2:05:26would ask like you know like what's my
2:05:28dog's name or like what do I like U what
2:05:31yoga studio do I go to or something like
2:05:33that she like like I'm answer like I'm
2:05:39and then like another thing I'm sure not
2:05:41sure if this is you it's like okay is
2:05:44this who text or is this who calls oh
2:05:46okay so she wasn't hearing your voice
2:05:48think yeah is it possible she thought
2:05:50you'd been arrested and we were on the
2:05:52phone either Shan had my phone or
2:05:54somebody else had my phone like maybe
2:05:57know maybe it was maybe she thought it
2:05:59was the well hopefully shenan would know
2:06:01all the answers to those questions right
2:06:03no no no this is that Nikki asking me
2:06:06yeah but if she's asking your name of
2:06:08your dog and what yoga studio and
2:06:10wouldn't well she maybe she thought you
2:06:12know I wish man that she was just trying
2:06:14to find out who she
2:06:17was
2:06:19yeah like some of the some of the
2:06:21conversation like on the 14th got a
2:06:22little weird I think that's when she met
2:06:23with CBI or something or FBI I'm not
2:06:26sure who she with first so she talked to
2:06:27you after she met with no oh I was like
2:06:30she had told me like this is the last
2:06:32time you probably hear from me I'm going
2:06:33to St my friend J place all this is all
2:06:36going on should not contact her until
2:06:39this is this is
2:06:42done St to delete everything and I
2:06:45didn't delete everything
2:06:47just
2:06:49okay I'm not sure why I didn't delete
2:06:51anything but probably helped you guys
2:06:52out a little bit but she told you to
2:06:56delete
2:06:57everything delete all conversations did
2:07:00she tell you why said delete
2:07:04it don't think you can have deleted text
2:07:08message we pretty good getting deleted
2:07:11text
2:07:12message did uh when your dad came in one
2:07:15of the first things you guys talked
2:07:16about he said you know why we had
2:07:19cheated on cheated on she or something
2:07:21your dad didn't know until that time no
2:07:23they had when I was in Carolina August 6
2:07:27when I spent most of the day with my
2:07:28parents and my sister and everybody you
2:07:31know they had uh I had told them like
2:07:33something like you know
2:07:35this I don't think this is going to work
2:07:38like for with what happened with the the
2:07:40nuts and everything and they're not
2:07:41being able to see the kids they like you
2:07:42know this is the first time they had
2:07:44talked to me and pretty much you went
2:07:47three weeks or something right yeah
2:07:48because sh told me to call him while I
2:07:50was in at the beach just to smoo
2:07:52everything out because she was like all
2:07:54right whatever's going on in your head
2:07:55you need to fix this but she didn't want
2:07:57me she didn't want the kids to see him
2:07:59she didn't want to see him and then like
2:08:01when I did see him on August 6 it was
2:08:03after I went and saw my grandmother she
2:08:05was in a in a nursing home and um she
2:08:09still wouldn't let what me go see a
2:08:12parents or anybody even with the kids so
2:08:15I just told to leave me there and like
2:08:16Dad I can pick me up and you know
2:08:19spent the whole day there and me they
2:08:21they were you know they said they want
2:08:23to see the kids they just don't know if
2:08:24they could ever like you know just
2:08:26forgive Shan
2:08:28for everything that happened that day I
2:08:30guess I mean I'm not sure like
2:08:32everything that was said that day when
2:08:33they had that argument but apparently it
2:08:35was like a knock down drag out like bom
2:08:38went off pretty hurtful thing yeah guess
2:08:41so and you know they just don't know
2:08:44like if they could ever forgive her or
2:08:45not and I just like I I never told him
2:08:48about like you know cheating on cheating
2:08:50on her like they they even asked me if
2:08:52there was somebody else oh did they
2:08:53really yeah they could kind of sense
2:08:55maybe something was going on yeah cuz
2:08:57nii was texting the entire time I was
2:08:58over there they kind of see like I was
2:09:00texting somebody but it was
2:09:04like they kind maybe they maybe they
2:09:07kind of knew like even like when I was
2:09:09in San Diego talk my friend Mark I told
2:09:11him about Nikki but I didn't tell him
2:09:13like I was going to meet up with her
2:09:17okay I told I told him that you know I
2:09:19was trying to like I should have just
2:09:21told him right then maybe that
2:09:24would I know maybe he had he had an
2:09:26instance where there was a girl coming
2:09:28after him and she he she was engaged and
2:09:32he ended up getting with her and then
2:09:36they were together and then she cheated
2:09:38on him is this before he was married or
2:09:41during oh that okay like he think he
2:09:44could have you know helped me but I just
2:09:46you know I never told him think that it
2:09:49was a lot further along than I wanted to
2:09:53that's to think about right give us good
2:09:55advice yeah everybody oh this is my
2:09:58friend Mark oh oh sorry okay when I was
2:10:00in San Diego oh I bet you so you think
2:10:03you told Mark about them hoping that he
2:10:04make me question you about it or I was I
2:10:06was I was cuz you know Mark best friend
2:10:08you know I've grew up with him since I
2:10:10was like eight nine years old so like he
2:10:14had been married before and I didn't
2:10:17work out guess they were station
2:10:19together or something like over in Korea
2:10:22and uh I was that should have just kind
2:10:25of just came out with like the whole
2:10:26whole story like you know like I just
2:10:28told my there was this girl at work that
2:10:30you know I've been talking to but know
2:10:33I'm just just just distancing myself
2:10:35from her but that wasn't the case I was
2:10:38just letting it you know exponentially
2:10:41get worse right if I told him like Hey
2:10:43you know yeah he would been like who man
2:10:47like all right step back and look and
2:10:50like don't like fall into that trap
2:10:53being you're going to be alone for 5
2:10:55weeks and there so there's times I wish
2:10:57you know like maybe shenan didn't have
2:10:59to go away for five weeks maybe we all
2:11:01just went for one week nothing ever
2:11:04happen yeah it's only I mean five weeks
2:11:08alone that's the only reason really that
2:11:10would even almost even allowed to
2:11:13happen there are quite a few people who
2:11:16would tell us and do tell us you need to
2:11:20look into Nikki more Nikki kinger all
2:11:22the way from the extreme end of things
2:11:24being Nikki's the one who ordered the
2:11:26hit she was there I'm in the basement
2:11:30yeah you know so the the extreme is
2:11:32she's the one who told Kristen do it
2:11:34she's the real problem all the way
2:11:36that's the extreme side of then all the
2:11:37way to well there were read his text
2:11:39where she was infatuated she was in love
2:11:41she was saying how good Chris was in the
2:11:43sck and maybe we should look at her more
2:11:46you know what would you say to those
2:11:47people like know she she had her moments
2:11:50where I had to talk her like off the
2:11:52ledge kind of deal what's that mean it's
2:11:55like I guess after the fact there was
2:11:57like videos of her that she was like
2:11:59recording herself because she was like
2:12:00my b or something I never that but there
2:12:05it's like and she would get worked up
2:12:07about nothing she would just like she
2:12:10came to my house once because I think it
2:12:12was like
2:12:13July July 4th I I didn't have to work
2:12:17that day so I didn't like get up at like
2:12:19you know four o'clock and go home and
2:12:22Shan called me
2:12:24like I didn't hear it because I was
2:12:26Sting I was just
2:12:28like and she was pissed was pissed and
2:12:33like I called her outside like where are
2:12:35you at like what like I was like I
2:12:37didn't have to work today I like called
2:12:39me at like you know 5:30 it's like my KS
2:12:42want to talk to you at 7:30 I'm like
2:12:44like I was sleep she's like she just
2:12:46like you know screw you like you know
2:12:49like I don't know where you're
2:12:51at and I went back inside something I
2:12:53gota go and she was like okay then you
2:12:57come back and like probably not so wait
2:13:00a minute you kind of lost me there were
2:13:01you at Nikki's place when shenan called
2:13:04you yeah okay and so you were sleeping
2:13:05in her bed yeah cuz I wasn't going to
2:13:07work that day then after that day first
2:13:10holiday i r off and you know she she was
2:13:14pissed and you know kind of pissed Nikki
2:13:16off too that I just that I left but I
2:13:18think that's when she uh i' called Nikki
2:13:21later and she was like you know she kind
2:13:23of realized that you know she'd always
2:13:25be like you know the second second she
2:13:28said second
2:13:29Bill and because that's how I would come
2:13:32like that thing just you know I don't
2:13:34want to be anywhere else when she had
2:13:35calls she was already pissed so it was
2:13:39stuff like that where she would real
2:13:40like she would
2:13:41go excuse me she said she would go on
2:13:44like uh websites and look at like Ro or
2:13:47relation ship work with somebody like
2:13:50will a mistress work will a mistress
2:13:52turny do a relationship that's what
2:13:53Nikki was looking at yeah she would tell
2:13:55you that or okay yeah she said that she
2:13:58would go on websites and look at stuff
2:13:59like that just the I was like why do you
2:14:01even look at stuff like that she like I
2:14:03just want to see what other people have
2:14:04experience but Mike so that confuses me
2:14:06though because I thought earlier you
2:14:09were saying she thought you were heading
2:14:11toward a
2:14:11divorce so why would she looking at
2:14:13herself if this was this was later on oh
2:14:17like you know in August like first week
2:14:19of August when I told her like you know
2:14:21I had to have that talk with her about
2:14:22separation uhhuh that's when like she
2:14:24look start looking at like a park stuff
2:14:26but like during our July relationship
2:14:29type thing there oh I see that's when
2:14:31she was looking up like you know know it
2:14:33actually
2:14:34work she told she told her friend
2:14:36Britney about it I guess and Britney
2:14:38told her not to do it but she said she
2:14:40already made a decision
2:14:42okay and so are those people absolutely
2:14:46wrong about Nikki she wasn't asking you
2:14:49to get rid of your family no are you
2:14:51sure okay and no part of any of this was
2:14:54because she put it in your head or asked
2:14:57you to or you never I mean this whole
2:15:00this whole relationship contributed to
2:15:02it sure but she never it never she
2:15:05didn't want me to Ian was it ever like I
2:15:07wish you didn't have kids I want to have
2:15:09you know kids of my own with you like
2:15:12she wants I mean she never knew if she
2:15:13wanted to have kids but she said that
2:15:15you know at one point she said I'd like
2:15:18to give you a
2:15:22son what did she know that shenan was
2:15:25pregnant with a boy no did she know
2:15:27shean was pregnant no and why is that
2:15:30you just didn't tell her I didn't know
2:15:32her like because we had met but she
2:15:34didn't put that on Facebook that's
2:15:36that's like how did she not see that I
2:15:38don't know maybe she did she just wait
2:15:40for me to tell her or she put it on
2:15:43her can I ask you a question a lot of
2:15:46people think you named me Eco
2:15:51after so what was that Eco was actually
2:15:54name as shite okay shenan thought of
2:15:57that one yeah I actually I wanted to
2:15:59spell it like NE KO I thought it was
2:16:01like ni that way but she said ni I
2:16:05thought like that like niik or something
2:16:07okay because niik is is more of like an
2:16:09Italian
2:16:10thing so and like Sly for you know my
2:16:14middle name my dad all that but like
2:16:16Nico is like that's name that she always
2:16:19like did she name all the kids she name
2:16:22Bella and SCE yeah Bella because of TI's
2:16:26beautiful Marie mom's middle name
2:16:28Celeste is her grandmother's name
2:16:31Catherine's middle name did you have any
2:16:33input in their names I like them I was
2:16:37like I was like if we have like if we
2:16:39had a third child no I was gonna maybe
2:16:42we could have like Lee in the middle
2:16:43name but you know like you know I knew
2:16:45like the girls names I love those names
2:16:48so that's cool especially like with the
2:16:51you know we have all nicknames for him
2:16:53you like B Bine and CC
2:16:57obviously look good but yeah Nico
2:17:04was can we go back to the house on the
2:17:0613th so um one point right when you got
2:17:11back there t Rod was their officer T rod
2:17:13and Nicole was there and then you went
2:17:14in the house in here for about a minute
2:17:16or so before let everybody in remember
2:17:19what you were doing in there at that
2:17:20time I was so I went into the garage
2:17:24right and then I ran around and I open
2:17:26the front door yeah open the front door
2:17:29for did everybody come into through the
2:17:30garage of the front door everybody came
2:17:32through the front door yeah so I came in
2:17:34I went in through there and I came in
2:17:36opened the front door and I ran upstairs
2:17:39I just was like I was looking around
2:17:42okay was that that's after everybody did
2:17:43you go around the house at all before it
2:17:45opened the front door no no I I didn't
2:17:47run around the house I stay down the
2:17:48bottom bottom floor and then open the
2:17:50door yeah okay it's curious and I ran
2:17:53upstairs and everybody else that's when
2:17:58the phone and I was
2:18:02going house
2:18:05yeah she had her bra was that normal
2:18:09that she would sleep in her
2:18:12bra every once in a while I mean she
2:18:14just got home from Planes she didn't
2:18:16even take off her her makeup or anything
2:18:18maybe she was just that tired but
2:18:21normally I know didn't that come off
2:18:24when you guys had
2:18:26sex I don't think
2:18:28so sometimes she just you know keeps her
2:18:32shirt on and she doesn't want me to like
2:18:35she wants what she
2:18:39wants she knew what she wanted that's
2:18:41what she wanted was it just missionary
2:18:43sex
2:18:46Y and when she when she her final
2:18:49resting place was that just naturally
2:18:51what she was wearing you didn't change
2:18:52or anything like that
2:19:01okay did you have to see any of that
2:19:04stuff pictures or anything it's not to
2:19:07okay they said I I was like no I don't
2:19:10want I've prayed for those Hazmat
2:19:13workers that I'm sure it was Hazmat
2:19:14right that had the they're part of it
2:19:16yeah
2:19:17we were all there we were all
2:19:19there I'm
2:19:22sorry I never wanted to see pray for I
2:19:25had to be
2:19:26there I I don't I don't never wanted to
2:19:29know
2:19:31what what the aftermath was they they
2:19:33they said like you know if this ever got
2:19:35ever got like a prelim preliminary
2:19:37hearing that I I would have to see
2:19:40him just to be prepared and not have a
2:19:44reaction an initial an initial reaction
2:19:47I was like I don't want to see
2:19:53him do you feel like your lawyers were
2:19:55fair to
2:19:57you yeah yeah I mean they were all I
2:19:59mean they were my only human contact
2:20:02really you know they they're kind of
2:20:05like almost like a guidance counselor
2:20:06almost yeah did you feel like you were
2:20:09driving the bus though with your
2:20:11decisions you or I was like I you know
2:20:15there was a lot of things I didn't
2:20:16really know what was going on behind the
2:20:17scenes like maybe there was a lot of
2:20:18things they never told me like you
2:20:21know um like stuff that came out like
2:20:24afterwards like the old Nikki ker
2:20:27article and then post all that kind of
2:20:29stuff they told me like afterwards and
2:20:30everything but it
2:20:32was I always felt like anything I was
2:20:35telling them they were they were they
2:20:37were going to do like the whole take the
2:20:40complete deal and everything I told
2:20:41that's what I wanted to do and they you
2:20:42know they they asked me
2:20:44like I think like 100 times are you sure
2:20:47you want to do this are you sure like
2:20:49once you sign this like um I guess like
2:20:52up until sentencing I had the time to
2:20:54like you know back out but like they
2:20:55always even before we walked in the
2:20:57court like are you
2:20:59sure so yeah this is this is it okay
2:21:03they they never told me this is what you
2:21:05have to
2:21:08do they always just said this is your
2:21:10decision you know like if you want to
2:21:12take this farther where you know in John
2:21:15said he he was right he had all kind em
2:21:17motions written all kinds of stuff that
2:21:19were like really creative and because
2:21:21he' never been in something like this
2:21:24before and he was ready to fight and I
2:21:26was like I didn't want you to have to do
2:21:28that not for me not
2:21:30for not for something that the story
2:21:33isn't hard is
2:21:35trueth because it it was just only
2:21:38goers for everybody for all three of you
2:21:42for everybody that was involved in
2:21:44it are you still glad you do yeah I mean
2:21:48I never I never thought I'd be in prison
2:21:50the rest of my life but like
2:21:53I I don't want people have to through
2:21:56this every day of their lives knowing
2:21:58that you know there's a trial hanging
2:22:00over their head or I if if would never
2:22:01got that one I don't know but like I
2:22:04didn't want people to have to relive it
2:22:07every day yeah did they have to ever
2:22:11seen the pictures say that day after
2:22:13receive the pictures frankly same call
2:22:14them no no they never see they saw some
2:22:18things they didn't they didn't see
2:22:20anything that okay yeah we shielded that
2:22:23from
2:22:26them that's one thing I just didn't want
2:22:28them to have to see any or hear anybody
2:22:30talk about what anything any part
2:22:33of or like you know any anybody B their
2:22:37daughter you know like anybody to room
2:22:40like you know they hear what you know
2:22:42some of my friends had a negative you
2:22:44know impact on her from her or like had
2:22:48a description of her that that they
2:22:50didn't match you know something like
2:22:51that I didn't want them to hear that I
2:22:53didn't want them
2:22:55like anybody has to trash for memory
2:22:58like I wanted like to know like she was
2:23:00you know she loving wife she's beautiful
2:23:02she always helped everybody else all her
2:23:05friends her's friends
2:23:07everybody I just want I didn't I didn't
2:23:10want anybody to take away what she did
2:23:13we tried to get you to say that that
2:23:14night I know but um do you remember that
2:23:17I remember I was just like I know you
2:23:19obviously weren't ready to say that like
2:23:22you know like after my dad left we both
2:23:23came in like all right we got most of
2:23:26the story let's get to the the true
2:23:27story I was like I just wanted to bang
2:23:29my head against the
2:23:33table in the end I think you did the
2:23:35right thing and even though it's hard to
2:23:38hear um there's a lot of people who
2:23:40thank you for what he did you know I
2:23:42think your whole life has been thinking
2:23:44of others except for one F Bal you know
2:23:48I think you really did think of others
2:23:49when you made that choice so I
2:23:51personally thank you right it it would
2:23:54have been hard for the three of us to go
2:23:55through about this hard and for everyone
2:23:57else about that hard right is anybody
2:23:59that was family or friends you know just
2:24:02exp harder for everybody
2:24:05yeah
2:24:07right so you haven't told your parents
2:24:10what happened you just told them I'm
2:24:11pleading guilty for a reason I've told
2:24:14them like on the phone even because they
2:24:16they're still
2:24:18you should fight it you should they've
2:24:21they've got letters from like Australia
2:24:23from England I mean of like the 35c in
2:24:27Colorado and stuff like you know proper
2:24:29Council or something effective Council
2:24:32and um I mean some of the stuff they've
2:24:34you know theyve said about you know the
2:24:36Thrive patch how it's not like FDA
2:24:38approved how it can alter somebody's
2:24:40mind like um uh
2:24:45like there was some kind of condition
2:24:48but there's some else they call like
2:24:49cpsd complex
2:24:52uh postmatic stress disorder or
2:24:55something like that have been like some
2:24:57people from England have had it this
2:24:58like they've been in emotionally abusive
2:25:01relationship or something I mean like
2:25:03you know some of the some of the little
2:25:04subjects they put in there like yeah I
2:25:05can relate to it but like it doesn't
2:25:07make up for the fact what
2:25:09happened but like they've they've got a
2:25:11lot of support from theyve got a lot of
2:25:13hate mail a lot of phone calls a lot of
2:25:15like you know stuff like I wish they
2:25:17never
2:25:18Happ but they you know they they get
2:25:22some support which is good but on the
2:25:24phone they still think you
2:25:26know there's a chance that I could get
2:25:29out yeah I mean you don't want to ever
2:25:31think your kids going away forever
2:25:36like they tell me to fight it like you
2:25:38know they don't not every day but in
2:25:41their on their bad days they'll get a
2:25:43bad message or a bad letter and they'll
2:25:45just come back
2:25:47is that more your mom or your dad my mom
2:25:50she losed it a lot yeah on the phone my
2:25:53Dad's usually trying to you know like
2:25:55hey don't talk about this stuff phone
2:25:57with because it's just going to Ratt
2:26:00it's going to R you up and it's going to
2:26:01make him go back to his C and he's gonna
2:26:03just going to think about that all night
2:26:05right and that that's that happens yeah
2:26:08would you ever want him to know what
2:26:09you're telling us
2:26:11today I'd rather just tell up myself
2:26:15yeah so they're and I think they're
2:26:17going to try to make a visit like May or
2:26:20so so they don't do they still think
2:26:23that sh Kil they still believe that even
2:26:27though I told them I play guilty for a
2:26:28reason but they think that I was there
2:26:30words like railroaded by
2:26:34to because they you know they felt like
2:26:37they they pressure to do it the do you
2:26:41feel like that no no they they ask me
2:26:44plenty of times just is like you know
2:26:45they want they wanted to fight like they
2:26:48if I said fight they would have just you
2:26:50know G their gloves yeah went in there
2:26:53and did
2:26:53it you know it's like no I just I can't
2:26:57have you do
2:26:58that so Chris you carear about others
2:27:02deeply I can tell you worry about others
2:27:06um and I've asked you you know a bunch
2:27:08of times today
2:27:10that you're not just telling us that you
2:27:12did it because you feel bad for
2:27:14shannan's memory you did it
2:27:19okay I have to say like you know after
2:27:22this was all over you know people would
2:27:24bring up like oh my gosh I bet you're
2:27:26going to find out that Chris you know
2:27:28used to torture animals and you know all
2:27:29this stuff you can imagine like you know
2:27:32hearing that someone's capable of that
2:27:35what have they done in their past those
2:27:36kinds of things can you think back to
2:27:38your past at all like your childhood and
2:27:40think about any other moments that maybe
2:27:42you felt this same rage I mean obviously
2:27:44didn't do anything like that but maybe
2:27:46felt that rage and like what would have
2:27:49triggered that or anything like
2:27:52that not really I mean I was always like
2:27:55somebody that Tred to co people down not
2:27:58to like if somebody wanted to fight
2:28:00somebody else I got in a fight like when
2:28:02I was in third grade but it was like you
2:28:04know we rip each other's shirt when am I
2:28:06crying you know it was stupid I was just
2:28:09like why did I why did I do that and
2:28:11like maybe that was like my only like
2:28:15bad thing I did in school so I can't
2:28:18think of did you feel it on the inside
2:28:20whether you didn't act it out like did
2:28:21you feel like like if someone bullied
2:28:24you at school or someone whatever like
2:28:26would it still be inside you like did
2:28:27you feel like that even though you
2:28:29didn't actually act on it I believe
2:28:31because I was always you know I never
2:28:32really talk to many people so I
2:28:35never me people knew who I was but they
2:28:38didn't really I mean I never really
2:28:39spoke to many people that's why I never
2:28:41had a girlfriend in high school I me I
2:28:42was always kind of like SP to the radar
2:28:45did you feel like you had low self self
2:28:47esteem I want say a little self-esteem
2:28:49it was just like I didn't want to be I
2:28:51didn't want to be part of like a group
2:28:52or a click I just like you know I had a
2:28:54couple friends sat at a lunch table with
2:28:56them and or sat out they called like the
2:28:59fish pond area and know was so out there
2:29:02I didn't really want a whole lot of
2:29:04friends it's kind of like just a close
2:29:07nit I just sing out there I mean people
2:29:10who I was wasn't matter like it was
2:29:12popular or anything
2:29:14mhm can you attribute that anything in
2:29:17your childhood while you were my sister
2:29:19was always the popular one uhuh she was
2:29:21more like my mom like more like outgoing
2:29:24and like me and my grandma would always
2:29:26sit outside in middle school waiting for
2:29:28her to come out pick her up and she'd
2:29:29always be the last one out she'd talk to
2:29:31everybody in the hallway and my grandma
2:29:33always like where is she at does she
2:29:35know me waiting but you know it's I was
2:29:37just the opposite of her and I was like
2:29:41sometimes you have kids that are like
2:29:42the same and some you have opposite me
2:29:44my sister completely opposite maybe I
2:29:45just Drew on that that I didn't want to
2:29:48be the popular one I wanted to be just
2:29:50you know regular regular
2:29:53guy there was not like bullying or I got
2:29:57remember ever really came up to me or
2:29:59wanted to fight me or never got made fun
2:30:02of never I mean I was I had bracelets I
2:30:05had like a bu cut for a while I guess
2:30:07could made Big Fun de 80s and 90s Are
2:30:13Cool J Cary cut with full on your head
2:30:17around but guys I don't think there was
2:30:20anything that would anything that would
2:30:22be pimped up inside me from from
2:30:24childhood I know you talked about your
2:30:26dad having an addiction when I was
2:30:28talking to you that was after I left uh
2:30:31I left home is that was it cocaine or
2:30:34something or it something about powder
2:30:36I'm not sure cocaine I guess how do you
2:30:38think that affected
2:30:40you I don't think it affected me well it
2:30:44did affect me but it didn't like
2:30:47take like deep down and like really hurt
2:30:50as much as I thought it would was kind
2:30:51of weird because on my thing my mom and
2:30:54my sister told me like when they talked
2:30:56to him about it didn't seem register
2:30:58like I said like he would just change
2:31:00subject and like when I talked about it
2:31:02he eventually immediately changed
2:31:05subject I like because they found like
2:31:07you know cuts on his like CDs and stuff
2:31:09where he would like you know like
2:31:11separate it and stuff like that cardal
2:31:13ship I
2:31:15mean f gu that do that kind of stuff all
2:31:17the time I guess but he was just coping
2:31:20with like I never came back home
2:31:24and that's before I met
2:31:27shenan and it was just did you feel
2:31:29guilty that he's now using drugs because
2:31:31you never came back home like he lost
2:31:33his kid no I was I never really knew why
2:31:37he was doing
2:31:38it after the fact I knew he was because
2:31:41he was coping with that but I never knew
2:31:44why he would actually turn to drugs my
2:31:46mom having bear because all this money
2:31:48was going somewhere else just for drugs
2:31:50but like I'm myself I never use drugs so
2:31:55I always try to tell them like hey like
2:31:56what's going on like why did why you
2:31:58need to use this and just like you can
2:32:00using this for a whole lot better better
2:32:02things you know just don't throw your
2:32:04life away I mean like cuz you can see in
2:32:06his face like you know it's like eyes
2:32:08like everything was getting like you
2:32:09know like the gloves do in your face and
2:32:12like scam getting all loose and like
2:32:13you're losing a lot of weight M and NOS
2:32:16all the time and and stuff like that and
2:32:18I just like hey you know you smoked like
2:32:20every day your life since you're like 15
2:32:23or 16 you like you know I can't get you
2:32:25to stop that but I get you to stop this
2:32:27right and he he put it away I guess
2:32:30pretty quick after I talked to him
2:32:34but you think you were closer to your
2:32:36dad than your mom yeah yeah we we always
2:32:40went to race we out there and you know
2:32:42he always car my sports uh played for
2:32:45couple schools sports wck ball all that
2:32:47kind of stuff you know you mom will come
2:32:50too sometimes my dad was always there
2:32:52yeah even if I wasn't playing he just
2:32:55come there just just in case I can't wi
2:32:56in there so that's cool
2:33:00yeah well I wondered if they hadn't
2:33:02visited because they didn't weren't
2:33:04ready to visit or if it was a money
2:33:06thing or you know
2:33:08like time off yeah you likeit here yeah
2:33:12visit here well I just told him like
2:33:13where can't out snow so want these roads
2:33:17are bad yeah it's um think like an hour
2:33:20from either madis airport whichever y
2:33:23way it is I told him like wait till
2:33:25Springtime could bu yeah pretty brutal
2:33:29it was
2:33:30yesterday funny they get here they sold
2:33:33my tool box get come out here okay
2:33:37so yeah so they'll they'll come out here
2:33:40and like they said April but I was like
2:33:41No just maybe push till June they say
2:33:43they come have a blizzard out here in
2:33:45April
2:33:47what they do lake effect stuff crazy
2:33:51yeah how how are you doing mentally I
2:33:55mean the first time I when I first I
2:33:57didn't know I was coming here obviously
2:33:59I mean I just when I was at drdc like
2:34:02IED you out didn't I was there a week
2:34:04like first day I got there they put me
2:34:06through the ringer like I had like 11
2:34:08tests to do like like like mental tests
2:34:11like reading math all kind of stuff just
2:34:13see MyQ was and then I just sat there
2:34:16the rest of the week and then Sunday
2:34:18came along and after dinner they said
2:34:20all right strip down and put this on
2:34:23okay and then walked outside and put me
2:34:25in the van was like good I know iide
2:34:29knew and they stopped in Sterling which
2:34:32really freaked me out I was just like I
2:34:34don't want to do this cuz I heard so
2:34:35many horror stories about that place and
2:34:38uh they just stopped producing bathroom
2:34:40then kept going in the prison do they
2:34:42use the bathroom at the prison yeah it
2:34:43was like at at the Watchtower outside oh
2:34:47and uh we went to Nebraska sheriff's
2:34:51office there and then another sheriff's
2:34:52office in Iowa he B him eat breakfast
2:34:56then got here I asked him I only talked
2:34:59to him once I'm like can you tell me
2:35:01like U going like just a destination
2:35:03State he's like I don't
2:35:06know so there was like a it was like one
2:35:09of those like transport van like like at
2:35:11just the Middle where I was sitting
2:35:12there and uh I could see out the window
2:35:15and I could see like
2:35:16they would put in an address each time
2:35:18like they had like four sets of
2:35:19addresses they each one they had to go
2:35:21to they just would never tell me where
2:35:23we were going to end
2:35:24up what was what did they say your IQ
2:35:27was was like
2:35:29one 40 35 something
2:35:33that is that high I don't even know
2:35:36what yeah it was it was tell me back to
2:35:39high school for real
2:35:41like train parts the city and all that
2:35:44stuff yeah was a lot of a lot of word
2:35:46problems a lot of like uh geometry a lot
2:35:49of like you know patterns like if this
2:35:51was moved this way and then it was like
2:35:53like a series of them like all right
2:35:54what's
2:35:55this just a lot of lot of stuff like
2:35:58that but like the further further you
2:36:00got along hard got I'm just like it's
2:36:04like great it was like they give you
2:36:06this little take take that pen and take
2:36:08the little tube out in the middle that's
2:36:10where you're using to fill in the little
2:36:11yeah stantron sheets and everything look
2:36:14ni school again do you know how long
2:36:16you're going to be
2:36:18here neither do I by the
2:36:20way you know are you going to get a job
2:36:25I yeah if uh since I'm staying well
2:36:28since I'm gotten stabed here they have
2:36:30to work oh so what's your job
2:36:33now okay they haven't M me out of the
2:36:36accept or
2:36:37EV acceptance and evaluation assessment
2:36:40evaluation you still in that phase okay
2:36:42and how long will I take oh right now
2:36:45like Stu and staff here I'm just waiting
2:36:47for to move me over to a different unit
2:36:49and are you in uh Jpop right now no I'm
2:36:53in a unit there's like 11 or 12 of us on
2:36:54there there was like 22 when I first got
2:36:56there but they've been transferred to
2:36:59the other prisons around what are the
2:37:01other guys like they're like they're
2:37:04fine like the first time like I sat out
2:37:07ate like a breakfast or lunch one I was
2:37:10I was scared scared I was just like this
2:37:16like not since know I just never
2:37:18happened yeah like said they they locked
2:37:21the hallways down I got movie Colorado
2:37:23well I heard that so it was like you
2:37:26know being next like right like this
2:37:29eating next to somebody I was just like
2:37:31think like take a sport and try to stab
2:37:33me or something or what but it's totally
2:37:36different here I mean people know who I
2:37:38am but like they don't like you know run
2:37:41at me or jump at me or like apparently
2:37:44they um the guys that work here they
2:37:47they know that I guess other Maxes are
2:37:50like you the lock down like 23 22 hours
2:37:53a day oh so then this is an orange place
2:37:55to be for like other for other Max guys
2:37:58oh they said it's the best Max but the
2:38:00worst medium oh because uh if if you're
2:38:04Max you're working so you're you know
2:38:06out at your cell working like you know
2:38:07if you're a clerk or if you're in the
2:38:09kitchen or if you're in the W area
2:38:11you're doing
2:38:12something okay but um yeah they said
2:38:15like you get out here it'll be best for
2:38:18you plus they say it's not it's like
2:38:20rowy some the other
2:38:22places it's pretty
2:38:23intense yeah so like I mean I'm going to
2:38:27the GP area don't wi and you think
2:38:30they'll be while you're
2:38:32here
2:38:34okay they said like I guess it could
2:38:37take you know it takes a lot to get
2:38:38moved from Max to medium because
2:38:40Colorado I was classified as minimum
2:38:43restrictive but with the charges it
2:38:45would have been medium but here is
2:38:46automatically
2:38:48Max and what are the other guys in board
2:38:50you know uh they said most guys in here
2:38:53for like gang snitches and uh sex
2:38:58offenders and mainly people that have 20
2:39:01years on so people who were in for a
2:39:04long time and who would otherwise have a
2:39:05pretty hard time at a jail yeah for
2:39:07whatever they did whether it be
2:39:09snitching or yeah you know children yeah
2:39:12there there's some people from other
2:39:13states here as well and um guess a
2:39:17couple cops here too okay just you know
2:39:19just things have happened and they just
2:39:21don't think it'd be better it'd be a lot
2:39:23better if they're here or not at another
2:39:27yeah so what kind of jobs are available
2:39:30well it's um like they'll they'll
2:39:33probably have me as in the kitchen more
2:39:35than like that's where everybody starts
2:39:36out like either washing dishes or like
2:39:39you know putting Foods on the trays or
2:39:42helping you know pots and pants
2:39:44something like that right but they have
2:39:46like libraries they have like you know I
2:39:48think this is the PSU area the pitech
2:39:51area so they'll have like different guys
2:39:53doing clerk stuff around here I mean
2:39:55they've I they have over like 300 GP
2:39:59guys here that are like live here so
2:40:02they have a job for every one of them W
2:40:05there's even got at shovels sidewalks we
2:40:08saw him I saw him yeah yeah I don't want
2:40:11I want to be that guy not here do you um
2:40:14do you go to therapy do you have see a
2:40:16psychologist there actually the one I uh
2:40:20pred like a pavier or something like
2:40:21that she's uh she seem like once Mon and
2:40:24she's actually from Aurora really yeah
2:40:27it was weird I walked in I saw a bronco
2:40:28black I'm
2:40:31like uh okay who are you but um yeah
2:40:35it's so does she give you therapy or no
2:40:37she just like talks to me just to see if
2:40:39I need anything or like like if I need
2:40:42psych meds or if I need anything like
2:40:43that which I find all that stuff but but
2:40:46most people in my unit I have meds just
2:40:48to have them or do you think they need
2:40:49them well it's like a special management
2:40:52unit like they just put me on there to
2:40:53keep me away from DP and like most
2:40:55people either like just have like some
2:40:57type of medication they're
2:40:59on you don't take anything oh they just
2:41:02keep me in there until secury advisor
2:41:05says you know he can get moved to keep
2:41:07me down the
2:41:09hall what kind of stuff like food and
2:41:11stuff do you miss the most from the
2:41:13outside food yeah
2:41:16well I know from you know my last time
2:41:18North Carolina Bojangles that was really
2:41:20good if you you guys ever go to North
2:41:22Carolina or no barbecue it's like it's
2:41:24chicken and
2:41:25biscuits and that barbecue place down
2:41:27the street from for
2:41:29PD Smoke House George boys
2:41:33yeah yeah the burn ends I miss that just
2:41:36you know you know I miss st's cooking
2:41:38that's for sure like her spaghetti sauce
2:41:40and her fried pizza yeah fried pizza I
2:41:44don't think I've heard of that what is
2:41:45that that never her mom has or I think
2:41:48it was her mom her grandmother on her
2:41:50mom's side had this like PE with this
2:41:53dope homemade doughp you can make and uh
2:41:57just make up the dough and she would
2:41:59make it up with bell and left sometimes
2:42:00like a little smaller one but she'd make
2:42:02the really big one and then um she would
2:42:05uh put it in the oven the bottom oven
2:42:08let it sit there for a couple hours not
2:42:10with the dawn or anything just let it
2:42:11rise M and then um once it's done take
2:42:14it out form it throw the PE the
2:42:17spaghetti sauce she has spread it around
2:42:19and throw the mozzarella and pepperoni
2:42:22and put on the 350
2:42:23and but what part of it is fried though
2:42:26well they have some parts you put on
2:42:28grill you can put on the okay put on the
2:42:31uh stove too okay it's pretty it's
2:42:34really good I mean it's really thick
2:42:36yeah so you got apparently we need this
2:42:38yeah Sandy I work on that yes a
2:42:43note are you able ble to stay out of
2:42:45prer yeah no nobody's getting any fights
2:42:49nobody's you're not getting written up
2:42:50for anything you're not getting I try to
2:42:53keep a little F here I don't want to
2:42:55because they say if you get like two
2:42:57contact force they'll should be out if
2:42:58you work
2:43:00here another location yeah oh so then
2:43:03does that incentivize people put their
2:43:05nose down yeah okay yeah CU I guess a
2:43:08couple guys got busted for cell phone
2:43:11prob got it in no kidding like that St
2:43:13just baffles my mind how that stuff gets
2:43:16to I mean they won't even let like if
2:43:18somebody sends me a letter and it has
2:43:20like even like someone sent me a
2:43:22Christmas card with glitter on it it let
2:43:24me have because
2:43:25glitter like it's Contraband so like
2:43:28yeah I don't how people get St and stuff
2:43:30here so what do you do with all these
2:43:32letters that are coming into you most of
2:43:35them like I just have like
2:43:38this if somebody writes me once I'll
2:43:40never write them just because I don't
2:43:41know like who they are like where
2:43:43they're from I'll keep it if it's a if
2:43:46it's like a weird letter I'll sty up thr
2:43:48way if it's like a supported letter I'll
2:43:51keep it around just like you know
2:43:52supported letter and then like like I've
2:43:55had some people like write me like a
2:43:57second third time but they've changed
2:44:00the way they talk or like they said
2:44:02different things like there's like this
2:44:04this dude in like California that that
2:44:06ruled me he's like a he's a senior in
2:44:10high school and
2:44:12WR he's like okay dude I I look at the
2:44:15name like okay sh it up thre it away he
2:44:18wrote me again like like two weeks ago
2:44:21totally
2:44:22different like never mentioned like his
2:44:24age never mentioned his say like hey
2:44:26like I support you I'm like all this
2:44:27like that like if I didn't recognize his
2:44:30name I would have known like he was just
2:44:32an 18-year-old kid senior trying to
2:44:34trying to just like probably just get
2:44:36information trying to you know because
2:44:38there there's been like journalists and
2:44:39like other people like like you could
2:44:41kind of tell like they ask a lot of the
2:44:43questions but I Tred to like
2:44:45Tak to effect who's writing me and like
2:44:48just not to respond like I've responded
2:44:49to a few people just because like either
2:44:51my parents have talked to them on the
2:44:52outside and then I kind of know he's a
2:44:54real person oh but like there's some
2:44:57people that like it seem like they're
2:44:59just trying like to get help from
2:45:00themselves too like some people ask like
2:45:03you know like like just for Spiritual
2:45:06advice they're asking for Spiritual
2:45:09advice from
2:45:10you yeah like you know if they're not
2:45:13asking about the case I'll write them
2:45:14back
2:45:15the I
2:45:18yeah you think you'll be in love
2:45:22again there's a lot of women out there
2:45:24that are in love with you
2:45:27no I don't think that's gon to happen
2:45:29I'm not the guy that's down the street
2:45:30where
2:45:33minutes I've heard enough about that guy
2:45:36since been here what do what have you
2:45:38heard about him you engaged over a
2:45:41letter he did yeah that's
2:45:45pretty
2:45:46insane
2:45:53yeah do you have some ladies that are
2:45:55giving you a lot like just telling them
2:45:58that telling you that they're in love
2:45:59with you and that kind of stuff well
2:46:01I've had a couple letters that have been
2:46:02like you know I hear you get a lot of
2:46:04letters from like lady friends that tell
2:46:06you all you need to know I'm like just I
2:46:08don't get those letters trust me like
2:46:10there was I guess there was one letter
2:46:11in Colorado someone sing a pick for them
2:46:13the key and then it's like went on from
2:46:16there that was like the only letter I
2:46:17ever got that was like that but the
2:46:19Press took it just went with it yeah you
2:46:23ever get request from the quest and how
2:46:26does that work tear up don't are so are
2:46:29you personally declining well I don't
2:46:31like you know kind of back would they
2:46:33allow you to talk
2:46:35with would they allow V here to talk
2:46:37with you I don't know uh I guess have
2:46:41asked to come in here and talk to me
2:46:42what they had told though but they're uh
2:46:45I've gotten letters from like you know
2:46:47Denver PL Denver station who would not
2:46:49want to talk to me and then quotation
2:46:51walks off the record I can't right okay
2:46:55anything I right yeah you're right
2:46:59yeah so I just tear it up thr it away
2:47:02have you thought about like writing a
2:47:03book or anything like that no that's you
2:47:06know nothing like
2:47:09that my mom my mom and dad have been
2:47:11cycling okay my mom and dad saying maybe
2:47:13you should like write down like how you
2:47:14feel or like you know how you've been
2:47:17dealing with this type thing just write
2:47:19it down
2:47:21and that would be my story but I'm just
2:47:23like right that's not that's not me I've
2:47:28always been had a really crazy
2:47:30imagination as far like when I was a kid
2:47:31like I even convinced my teacher I was
2:47:33going to I went to Japan over the summer
2:47:35or to China or something but she said
2:47:38you know like you know you should shite
2:47:39down like you know your story like how
2:47:40you cope with
2:47:43this why did you me your teacher you had
2:47:45gone to another country it was just like
2:47:48what you did over the summer and I was
2:47:49like well to China are you still
2:47:52right she actually believed it I was
2:47:55really convinced so you're a smart dude
2:47:58yeah it was it was amaz parent teacher
2:48:01conference said so how's China
2:48:05what
2:48:06nope ear you were talking about how it's
2:48:09experience you're G to want to help
2:48:11people what do you mean by that so like
2:48:15this couple letters that I've gotten
2:48:16like this one this one girl she's in
2:48:19like an abusive relationship and she
2:48:21just can't find a relationship like with
2:48:23God and like I've been I've read I never
2:48:25read the Bible before before all this
2:48:27like in 12 County I read it you know in
2:48:32the segregation hole there it was like
2:48:34that was the only book I got I was like
2:48:36okay I read cover and cover and I never
2:48:39thought I could being how how many pages
2:48:41were in the Bible but I it stuck with me
2:48:44and like I've been reading it more and
2:48:46more here like I got a different version
2:48:47here I've just been reading it just
2:48:49writing down like a couple scriptures a
2:48:51day like get to my mom my dad they've
2:48:53been like making a little journal and
2:48:54stuff like that my Uncle Johnny and U
2:48:59his wife um Martha they're actually uh
2:49:04missionaries and um and one of my
2:49:07cousins is actually as well and they've
2:49:09been helping my mom and dad they've been
2:49:11they they looked to come A couple of my
2:49:12letters and they were they were
2:49:15they were amazed at how like how mature
2:49:17I've gotten with like the Bible and
2:49:19everything with scripture man they just
2:49:21like one thing one gift I did get was a
2:49:23good memory as far as like being a
2:49:25memorized stuff right and like that's
2:49:27what happened with cars and with the oil
2:49:29F memorize acronyms like that and I've
2:49:31been memorizing a lot of different
2:49:32scripture I can just kind of like help
2:49:35people that way it was like fisman
2:49:37inmates that have left my unit and went
2:49:39to a different place and have written me
2:49:41just ask like know can you give me a
2:49:43couple scriptures to help me through
2:49:45this like do you know of any I just I
2:49:48can help somebody that way
2:49:54yeah you g to go to school or anything
2:49:57they don't have an programs here they
2:49:58don't it's a accept or evaluation prison
2:50:01so they don't this is I think this is
2:50:03when they have sex class in
2:50:05here that's the only thing they really
2:50:08have you going go to that no no I always
2:50:12ask like why do people go in there and
2:50:13they're like you don't want to go that
2:50:15class stay class like
2:50:19okay yeah that's some we think might
2:50:21have here but they have other like
2:50:23that's like the map of the prisons they
2:50:25have here yeah looking at that earlier
2:50:27oh well they have a lot here yeah like
2:50:29three right in this area yeah
2:50:33they I was just amazed that when I one
2:50:35thing I did see out the window when I
2:50:37first there was like a neighborhood was
2:50:38right next to the prison yeah so just
2:50:41like is that same thing yeah weird
2:50:45like in Colorado seem like they're all
2:50:46like out middle of
2:50:49nowhere hey me
2:50:54see well um we might take a little break
2:50:59right now well I think it's almost time
2:51:01for you to eat lunch yeah like 20
2:51:03minutes but like the polygraph
2:51:06everything just
2:51:08like look up the time I'm like oh wow
2:51:11it's been four hours holy C they might
2:51:13let us come back you okay there might be
2:51:16a couple more things we want to go over
2:51:17that s your up for okay and then the
2:51:20other thing is we might be back in a
2:51:23month and a year and two years if you're
2:51:26up for it now that's way down the road
2:51:28but I guess maybe in the back of your
2:51:30mind just think about that um I hope so
2:51:33far today's been all right for you yeah
2:51:34it's been honestly when I walked in I
2:51:36was like wait I know where do I know
2:51:38these again I look at you I'm like like
2:51:41that that's not site counselor that's oh
2:51:43my gosh okay okay yeah they're Colorado
2:51:46people pass that A&E Sergeant I was like
2:51:49right my
2:51:51meeting not
2:51:54thege so um there's a possibility we
2:51:57might not make it back for that I just
2:51:58want to let you know but we might so we
2:52:03really appreciate you talking to us on
2:52:05total took me off guard I have no idea
2:52:07that yeah and
2:52:10again this isn't to the case is over
2:52:13close so it's not not not what today we
2:52:16really appreciate you did a lot of
2:52:18things really really well really good
2:52:20made a lot of good positions obviously
2:52:22we're here because just one bad decision
2:52:24but I think that you taking steps get
2:52:28past that um so yeah we might come back
2:52:32after watch if that's all right that's
2:52:33fine okay cool go see if I can grab
2:52:43somebody you guys play
2:52:46to I think I had the better drive I
2:52:49think you probably was like 50 minutes
2:52:51was like two hours yeah it was snowing
2:52:53it's pretty
2:52:55Nast the wind's blowing not like wind
2:52:58like Colorado
2:52:59then it's a hell of a lot colder Yeah
2:53:02well yeah the roads aren't getting
2:53:04cleared like they would get cleared in
2:53:05Colorado I think they just have so much
2:53:07yeah come in and just G yeah Colorado
2:53:11just melts within a couple hours here
2:53:13honestly I haven't seen M here that's
2:53:16the thing everyone's houses just pil you
2:53:18know like oh it's the next snow and they
2:53:20just pile it on so it doesn't look like
2:53:24anything melts no just a
2:53:30problem
2:53:35okay do you guys go outside for Rack or
2:53:38anything or no no when it's has to
2:53:41be oh he won't be out for a while no
2:53:45they have like a wreck uh like a little
2:53:47basketball court down the hall from
2:53:49where my unit is so we get there about
2:53:51five days a week for like 40 minutes
2:53:53nice good chance to just get out and
2:53:55just run around a little bit just
2:53:56stretch your leg a little bit yeah any
2:53:59weights or anything you can use there's
2:54:00some weights and there we go with
2:54:01another unit and they're uh the
2:54:03infirmier unit they go that goes with us
2:54:05and most of them are like in wheelchairs
2:54:07and what time so we kind of like them do
2:54:10I want get like get in the way just like
2:54:12let them like there like the P downs and
2:54:15the right lats and all that kind of Road
2:54:17machine and stuff like that so it's
2:54:19pretty cool yeah but I think they have
2:54:21like a track or something like there you
2:54:23can run around once we can go
2:54:27outside Colorado they let you go outside
2:54:29like I never went outside but like the
2:54:31drdc they just said do you want to go
2:54:34outside let you go outside that's
2:54:37cold fire
2:54:39beware want wreck today you're like
2:54:43no no it's like 30 Dees on the side you
2:54:45can draw a side if you want okay but
2:54:48their their version of Rec was like they
2:54:49put you out in a little cage and let you
2:54:51kind of walk around for a little bit
2:54:52Yeah at
2:54:54thec those a little different
2:54:57there if we don't want to come back I
2:54:59just want to let you know I talk to your
2:55:00dad the other day okay and and just to
2:55:02get your property released to him oh
2:55:05phone and stuff yeah phone
2:55:07and W W okay yeah SM but I have to wait
2:55:13for the da to relas all that stuff and
2:55:16okay red tap crap gotta but then we'll
2:55:19get we'll send it off to okay awesome
2:55:21thank you yeah I know he wanted my phone
2:55:23just pictures on there that's
2:55:25said I think I had that phone like 2016
2:55:28so there's there's a good amount on
2:55:30there
2:55:31yeah if we don't make it back today it's
2:55:34going to be because of some of their
2:55:35scheduling it's not that we don't want
2:55:37to talk to you more was F there more
2:55:39things we can't talk about okay but if
2:55:42we don't make it back that's why okay
2:55:47yeah it's a holiday so I figured they'd
2:55:48be pretty much open
2:55:51yeah so I didn't see many people walking
2:55:53through the hallidays and like came down
2:55:56usually there's a ton visitors or what
2:55:58no just people just like workers walking
2:56:00up and down seemed pretty sparse yeah it
2:56:03did seem sparse didn't it that's one
2:56:05thing I was shocked about when I walked
2:56:06around here I was always used to see
2:56:08everybody handcuffs walking around the
2:56:09hallways
2:56:11per that is interesting right I thought
2:56:13the same thing I couldn't tell who is
2:56:14who yeah it's like necessarily tell you
2:56:17got you see the red tag that's like an
2:56:19inmate but somebody else my horse here
2:56:21oh or like some of that's like act
2:56:24civilian War so then you're not in
2:56:26shackles and handcuffs that often I
2:56:27haven't been since I got here you're
2:56:29kidding that was that's that's why I was
2:56:31amazed I was like when the guy took me
2:56:33in the hallway I was
2:56:35like anything no keep walk yeah it's
2:56:40that's the that's my py cont sign this
2:56:42in ax when she first got here like no
2:56:44it's it's like Max or something they
2:56:46just like you know if if you if you want
2:56:48to act up they'll put use it you'll earn
2:56:50those shackles back oh yeah they they'll
2:56:52put you in handcuffs take get old yeah
2:56:54and then they'll ship you out of here
2:56:56they have a solitary here oh yeah
2:56:57they'll sh you out the bed oh yeah je
2:57:00can't move yeah well reminder yeah
2:57:03behave right yeah it's like don't don't
2:57:06pass food don't pass any not yours
2:57:09otherwise you're G do you get to buy
2:57:11like commissary and stuff that's
2:57:13different here it's a it's like a bubble
2:57:16sheet set of like Colorado is like a
2:57:17little little touchcreen you can do but
2:57:20here's like a little Scantron you send
2:57:22it off to like Missouri I it's the same
2:57:24company but it's the it just takes
2:57:27longer to get here
2:57:29yeah yeah just like what kind of stuff
2:57:31can you buy uh like Ramen soup and
2:57:33peanut butter and uh oatmeal like
2:57:36lemonade mix stuff like that just get
2:57:39the the oatmeal so your parents put
2:57:42money on your books then
2:57:45yeah I'm not sure how like that
2:57:46restitution stuff's going to work I'm
2:57:47sure like that'll like what whoever sent
2:57:49me mon canteen will probably like it'll
2:57:51take a little bit of it too oh yeah
2:57:53right okay yeah thank you thank you all
2:57:58right thank
2:58:04you we came back
2:58:06how lunch it was macaroni and cheese
2:58:11and um a bun and some milk good oh i
2:58:17s yeah chocolate milk or regular oh just
2:58:19regular milk chocolate milk I gu that's
2:58:23like I special special it is a holiday
2:58:27today you know that I know I think I
2:58:29think that shot milk on Christmas B oh
2:58:32really yeah they got milk with
2:58:34everything here obiously you know the
2:58:35state so yeah oh the dairy state so they
2:58:40got they got cheese with a lot of stuff
2:58:42too so not cheese
2:58:44we brought you some non- lactose power
2:58:46rate if you'd like it seriously yeah all
2:58:48yours oh thank
2:58:51you that's cool thank you you um so we
2:58:55don't want to take you you know all day
2:58:58um we really do
2:59:00appreciate being able to sit down and
2:59:02talk with us um there's a few things we
2:59:04want to kind of clear up wrap up and
2:59:08then you have any questions for
2:59:10us F
2:59:12to
2:59:14let me
2:59:15forget did you want to talk about Ronnie
2:59:17little b or he talked to your dad we at
2:59:20lunch and uh couple things we talked
2:59:23about your property and you know waiting
2:59:25on the DA's office but then he also the
2:59:27reason he called was uh Dave
2:59:31K yeah he's gonna go pick up some your
2:59:33personal line go of the house okay today
2:59:36so okay let you know that okay we didn't
2:59:40tell him anything about what we talked
2:59:41about he doesn't he doesn't even know
2:59:43we're here oh
2:59:45okay he just lives like around the cor
2:59:48than me so be good yeah yeah he just a
2:59:52lot of times anybody when anybody goes
2:59:53over there they usually call just so I
2:59:54can give everybody a heads
2:59:58up Neighbors calling somebody into the
3:00:01house okay that's how do that okay has
3:00:05anybody been like checking on the house
3:00:06making like pipes that brok all that
3:00:08kind of stuff water's off okay I do know
3:00:10that um I was worried about like you
3:00:12know sprinkling all that stuff I just I
3:00:15usually blow them out and all that kind
3:00:16of stuff fig why actually going through
3:00:19it or watching right the water's water
3:00:21been off for a while I didn't know that
3:00:23power still on actually oh it is
3:00:30yeah so um fortunately unfortunately I
3:00:34don't know how you want to look at it
3:00:35but um we need to get a tiny bit more
3:00:37into the weeds and into the mechanics of
3:00:40the time you showed up at the house when
3:00:42officer k was there okay till the time
3:00:46when we were all done talking okay um so
3:00:51that includes at the house that includes
3:00:53at the oilite and everything okay and
3:00:56part of the reason you need to get into
3:00:57that is I mentioned before how we're
3:01:02just really want to get into the mindset
3:01:05of what happened um and you can imagine
3:01:08this is really important for us in the
3:01:11future when we're talking to a guy
3:01:12that's a your position
3:01:14to say you know this isn't really a
3:01:16monster this is more like a Chris BL and
3:01:19boy we remember with Chris had we asked
3:01:22this or had we done this we really could
3:01:24have did better um and so that's why we
3:01:27want to get into the mechanics a a
3:01:29little bit more with you um and that's
3:01:31going to mean exactly how exactly when
3:01:35where were you what was you know shenan
3:01:37wearing or all of that right so we
3:01:41really just need for you to take a deep
3:01:44breath and get into it with us would it
3:01:45be all right if we ask you some specific
3:01:47questions okay um so one of the first
3:01:50thing we want to talk about was when you
3:01:53came home so this is after they had
3:01:56passed and you came home and met with
3:01:59officer coonrod um one of the first
3:02:01things we see on the video is she
3:02:02walking into the garage and then into
3:02:04the uh shannan's car remember what that
3:02:07was about and there a car yeah like I
3:02:09think you open a door or something yeah
3:02:10you open the passenger door and it looks
3:02:12like you're looking for something or
3:02:14maybe pick something up do you recall
3:02:16what that
3:02:17was not that I'm aware of not like not
3:02:21looking for anything but maybe just
3:02:22opening the car door see if
3:02:25like see if or uh I think Nikki was
3:02:29saying I think I see the car seat still
3:02:31in there yeah something like that and I
3:02:33when I open up the door I looked there
3:02:35just the it's like the first like
3:02:37reaction of like whatever everybody's
3:02:39just waiting pretty much waiting again
3:02:41in the house right right okay I didn't I
3:02:44wouldn't like looking for anything as
3:02:45far
3:02:47as spefic or anything but I would just I
3:02:50don't know this reaction going in there
3:02:52and say I know everybody's there I don't
3:02:54know what's going to happen when they
3:02:55share
3:02:56house you start of nervousness maybe
3:02:59yeah a lot of those nervous sure
3:03:02okay and then backing up a tiny bit
3:03:07I so she comes home at 2 in the morning
3:03:12um she gets into bed was when you guys
3:03:17had sex together was that pretty quickly
3:03:19after she came home I think it was
3:03:21around like 2:30 cuz she I felt like
3:03:24she' be in bed for for a little while
3:03:26bit okay um then forgive me it's it's
3:03:29not a pery thing but she woke you up
3:03:32yeah she was just I could I could feel
3:03:34like feel like a hand was on me like
3:03:35rubb my leg or my chest or something
3:03:37that and then that was you know signal
3:03:39it's go time head thing pretty much was
3:03:42like yeah okay I get it um and then that
3:03:45was maybe a half an hour after MH and
3:03:48then after that is there any talking or
3:03:51was it just kind of a just like f in the
3:03:54middle of the
3:03:55night just like I just felt I just felt
3:03:58her hand around me I'm just like time to
3:04:00go yeah okay it's funny all right um
3:04:05then couple hours of sleep alarm goes
3:04:08off okay I guess what I don't understand
3:04:11is so then there was some talking
3:04:14and then how did you get on top of her
3:04:16how did that happen it's like when I got
3:04:18into bed I Prett she was
3:04:20laying she when she was sleeping she was
3:04:22laying like face down which really never
3:04:24does okay and I was I just got into bed
3:04:27and I kind of nudged her and then she
3:04:28like kind of rolled over and then I was
3:04:29just like just like right there on top
3:04:31of her okay and so that was after you
3:04:33gotten ready okay so you go down you
3:04:36make your food oh yeah I got like and
3:04:40another okay and then so this is we
3:04:43talked a little bit earlier today about
3:04:45you know there was all of these things
3:04:46playing in your mind where you just
3:04:48didn't even want to go another second
3:04:49without having this conversation or
3:04:51without some sort of completion right
3:04:53and then so you come back she's asleep
3:04:56and then you just kind of nudge her yeah
3:04:58I just kind of like okay look up for and
3:05:01was there nudge talk for 20 minutes or
3:05:03was it just nudge and then all of a
3:05:04sudden you're on top of her nudge pretty
3:05:06much on top okay so that happened pretty
3:05:07quickly yeah it was that's thought we
3:05:09kind of pretty much talked that was just
3:05:11right there and was there talking yeah
3:05:13okay and so I nudge a talk she's laying
3:05:16down and you're standing up I was on I
3:05:18was like I called back I got on my side
3:05:21of the bed uhhuh and I just like nudged
3:05:23her like that oh okay and then you're
3:05:25talking while you're on top of her okay
3:05:28that seems confusing to me is that
3:05:31actually what happening okay um and so
3:05:34is she was fine like just laying there
3:05:36when you trying to talk to her while
3:05:37you're May thought we were going to have
3:05:40sex together or something okay okay and
3:05:43how how long did you talk about 15 20
3:05:45minutes really in that position okay and
3:05:48was there any sense no okay maybe she
3:05:50I'm basically from s never in maybe
3:05:54thought maybe I'd try to go again I
3:05:56don't know okay and and I don't harp on
3:05:58it too much but I'm just trying to
3:06:01think if my wife's four months pregnant
3:06:04and it's 5:00 in the morning and I want
3:06:07to talk and I want to get on top of her
3:06:08that's just not going to fly so that's
3:06:10why I'm confused is that really what
3:06:13happened
3:06:13okay and then talk for about 15 minutes
3:06:16and then it's heated and then your hands
3:06:19are on her
3:06:21neck all right um What did the what what
3:06:25did the
3:06:26talk basically just thought how at first
3:06:30it was more of like the selling the
3:06:33house type of thing or not going to
3:06:35Aspen or trying to maybe go in at a
3:06:37different time and then I just switched
3:06:38all to
3:06:40the I let me do anymore nothing able
3:06:44like that and that's what I got part of
3:06:48it she ever say at some point get off me
3:06:51or anything like that at the end yeah
3:06:54that's what she said I don't want you to
3:06:55feel like you know cuz where I was it
3:06:58was kind of like she didn't want me to
3:06:59like to you know sit down or like hurt
3:07:01the baby or
3:07:03anything did she accuse you of cheating
3:07:05at that
3:07:07point so what' she say like I know there
3:07:09was somebody else I know there was
3:07:11somebody else
3:07:14that's I I didn't come out to
3:07:16say there is somebody else but she
3:07:19obviously
3:07:21already then your response to that was
3:07:23what you say no there's
3:07:26not deny it I just denied it but at that
3:07:34point that always because when she would
3:07:36accused me at the beach it was all like
3:07:38there's nobody else there's nobody else
3:07:40you know or like you know when we got
3:07:42back home home she always like said
3:07:45there's got to be somebody else cuz
3:07:46she'd always talk to her friends like
3:07:48Christina or somebody
3:07:50onp and they'd always say there's got to
3:07:53be somebody else if he's not W to sleep
3:07:55with you like he's getting it from
3:07:56somewhere
3:07:57else there is you know there's nowhere
3:08:01else I mean she couldn't really say I
3:08:03would get anywhere else cuz I was using
3:08:05those gift cards so it's you know like
3:08:07she just me me getting distant but she
3:08:11knew and I just that's that's mainly the
3:08:14reason why I talked to her I new like
3:08:15after that night it was just like it
3:08:17felt like I just felt guilty more guilty
3:08:19than ever
3:08:21before
3:08:23yeah um and then it seems to me and
3:08:29sorry a lot of thoughts here so we know
3:08:31what happened and we can talk about it
3:08:33today kind of openly um and that's what
3:08:35we need from you is to just kind of say
3:08:37you know I know it sounds bad or I know
3:08:39this I know I feel this way but
3:08:41physically just is exactly what Happ
3:08:43um so if you could tell us that it seems
3:08:46then that it would have had to been a
3:08:47pretty quick transition from two people
3:08:50talking to this right is that what
3:08:52happened yeah it was like I don't want
3:08:54to like I think with the last last
3:08:57things was we were talking about but it
3:09:00was you know like I love love you
3:09:02anymore and then she was like you're
3:09:04never going to see the kiss oh that's
3:09:07perfect question that's exactly what we
3:09:08need okay and I know it's hard to walk
3:09:10through that again but that's exactly it
3:09:13so then as soon as she started talking
3:09:15like that then it was on F but it was
3:09:18you saying that you didn't love her is
3:09:20that right okay and her saying you're
3:09:22never going to see the gift okay I can
3:09:24imagine how that made you feel sorry it
3:09:26didn't didn't Warr what it did yeah um
3:09:30and then the fact that she
3:09:33didn't scratch at you or anything is
3:09:36that because it was so powerful oh
3:09:38thinkk you I mean I didn't feel like
3:09:41I've never know before but answer on
3:09:43anybody Force I don't even know what
3:09:45kind of force I was putting on her
3:09:49neck like I said two to four minutes I
3:09:51don't know if that twoes did you cover
3:09:54her face at the Whole 30 minut time both
3:09:56hands on the ne okay and so if it's done
3:10:00right I mean that can be a matter of
3:10:02seconds before someone on their kateed
3:10:04loses oxygen to their brain out right
3:10:06did it seemed like it was that quick or
3:10:08okay maybe a minute maybe two okay
3:10:12screaming
3:10:14okay all
3:10:16right did you see eyes go bloodshot or
3:10:20anything like
3:10:21that okay okay you kept talking about
3:10:25the mascara did you see mascara on your
3:10:27face yes it look like it was
3:10:30like that's why did it too was it was
3:10:33she crying was that life but what point
3:10:36did she start crying when not talking
3:10:38about the relationship about not being
3:10:41compatible I went just talking about
3:10:44there's somebody else that's where right
3:10:48that's where I thought you know mascara
3:10:50I didn't know if it was
3:10:52it I don't know I don't I don't
3:10:55know was there a pillow or something you
3:10:57to ask yeah so there
3:10:59was was there ever at any time pillow to
3:11:02the sheet or anything involved in like
3:11:04that on on the face specifically no not
3:11:09like the sheet how you kind of wrapped
3:11:11around but oh downstairs I it the one
3:11:15that was at the
3:11:17site and then the other
3:11:19sheets they in the trash what point did
3:11:22you put those in
3:11:23there think that
3:11:28was obviously after I was in the house
3:11:31yeah I think it was probably the next
3:11:34day
3:11:37so I think I don't
3:11:40know I'm not sure like what happened
3:11:43this is hard to talk about like when
3:11:45yeah stringles some out like some
3:11:47sometimes I guess they use the bathroom
3:11:50so like I think that's one of the amaz
3:11:52reasons why because I think that have
3:11:53happened oh
3:11:56okay you said she was sleeping face down
3:11:58at one point was her face in the pillow
3:12:01or was it turned to the side or how that
3:12:03kind like on the side she's kind of like
3:12:05a side Seer but she was more more down
3:12:07than usual okay but then she turn roll
3:12:11completely on the r when you start
3:12:12talking to
3:12:16her um now as hard as that was you were
3:12:21need to talk about the girls too
3:12:23okay thank you um so with the girls
3:12:28talked about how they uh got into the
3:12:31truck with you and were alive are you
3:12:34100% sure that's true
3:12:36okay can we can we ask go back just a
3:12:39second um you talked about before that
3:12:41Bella walked in to the bedroom can you
3:12:43tell us about that before you left yeah
3:12:46it was I was just getting the sheet off
3:12:49the bed and she walked
3:12:52in and she had her little pink blanket
3:12:55with her she's like what's wrong on
3:12:59me and where was shenan at that point
3:13:02just pretty much on the bed but she was
3:13:04face down wrapped in the
3:13:09sheet what' you say just on
3:13:13feel
3:13:14good
3:13:16that's carrier downstairs
3:13:19Shan did you carry this did you dag her
3:13:23how did you do it tempted to tempted to
3:13:26pick her up and pick her up take her
3:13:28down but it lost grip after a little
3:13:35while did Bella see you do that what was
3:13:39Bella
3:13:40saying she started up crying a little
3:13:43[ __ ] like what's
3:13:47wrong what' you say that time just just
3:13:51feel
3:13:55good she smart girl she she know on
3:13:59there did she ever touch shanan trying
3:14:01to wake her up or anything
3:14:04no she didn't want to see her asked to
3:14:07see her I think and so that initial time
3:14:10did she see you put uh shenan truck so
3:14:13she was kind of following you okay so
3:14:16she followed you and you put shenan in
3:14:17the
3:14:18truck and then
3:14:21what I got CC wasn't up
3:14:26yet Us in her room she getting ready to
3:14:28get out of her bed and then they were
3:14:31just walking around the house I
3:14:33was put
3:14:37the my lunch box stuff in the truck and
3:14:39then grabb the kids and put
3:14:43Ben okay so shanan is she kind of on the
3:14:46floor in the back and they're just on
3:14:47the bench
3:14:49okay um and both alive at that point
3:14:54okay is there any reason you would feel
3:14:56uncomfortable to tell me that they were
3:14:58not alive at that point
3:15:01okay the video or anything um it's hard
3:15:05to see okay and I and I believe you I'm
3:15:07just um I'm trying to make sure that I'm
3:15:09giving you all the opportunities to be
3:15:11comfortable enough to
3:15:13exactly they they were okay s me I hear
3:15:17that every every day when fell was
3:15:19talking to me on the site oh
3:15:22really what do you mean when she said
3:15:25that you know when we were driving to
3:15:28the site she said Daddy it smells oh
3:15:33okay so that that goes back to maybe
3:15:37shenan evacuating herself I don't know
3:15:40that they know that SM like the like a
3:15:42skunk maybe sometimes oh I got some some
3:15:46kind of that way but I don't know what
3:15:48that was from and was that maybe outside
3:15:50the tra or is that in I don't know okay
3:15:54what did you guys talk about on the way
3:15:55out they were pretty quiet they you know
3:15:58laid next to each other okay maybe Bella
3:16:01in her laugh and Cas see in her laugh
3:16:03back and forth oh okay she's trading off
3:16:06like little ones do okay were they
3:16:11awake one kind of fall
3:16:13asleep just
3:16:15see kind of trade off back and
3:16:18forth were they talking to you just
3:16:21about you know just saying Daddy it
3:16:23smells ear they up the road yeah did you
3:16:28have to so you didn't have to wake CC up
3:16:31there was the noise from kind of get Che
3:16:36downstairs did she kind of fall down the
3:16:38stairs no it was more like trying to get
3:16:41her down and like know from the steps
3:16:44maybe foot The Next Step kind of thing
3:16:46oh they're
3:16:52LIC so then once you get to the site
3:16:56tell me what
3:16:57happens get to the that one side I get
3:17:01sh out to
3:17:03that over
3:17:06to part right side the site there okay
3:17:11and girls are still on the TR
3:17:13okay did they ask you what you were
3:17:14doing taking mommy out or yeah I don't
3:17:18know what I told them but they did
3:17:21ask they what they say
3:17:23specifically there more of like you know
3:17:25what are you doing
3:17:28okay that me is that one the
3:17:32variator I
3:17:34didn't I didn't I don't remember if
3:17:38I old there first or but I don't but
3:17:42they didn't watch me do
3:17:44that so then hold shenan out she's maybe
3:17:47just sitting there on top of the ground
3:17:49yeah like off to the side off the side
3:17:51close to where she ended up oh
3:17:55okay and then the girls right okay you
3:17:59mentioned Bella was first CE was first
3:18:04okay where exactly wor she when it
3:18:06happened in the back SE okay was she
3:18:09just right next to Bella Okay so
3:18:12um so once again was it a hand over her
3:18:17face was it it was a blanket over my
3:18:20hand and then your hand okay and then so
3:18:22that just stopped her from breathing
3:18:23type thing okay did she struggle at
3:18:27all I think so but
3:18:30my I was blocking her face my hand was
3:18:32right here oh okay okay you had one hand
3:18:35here and one hand over her mouk and
3:18:38we're just pushing her against the back
3:18:39of the seat type thing okay what would B
3:18:42do
3:18:43sit there next to she didn't know what's
3:18:45going on okay could she see you
3:18:48okay um and then did that take a minute
3:18:52or
3:18:53you nothing nothing I have no way
3:18:56concept at the time at this
3:19:01point tell me about what you were
3:19:04thinking I wasn't I was
3:19:07thinking
3:19:08yeah
3:19:11any partial hint
3:19:13of what I feel for those girls and what
3:19:16I feel for my wife but do none this
3:19:17would have happened so I don't I wasn't
3:19:20okay so she's in the back seat
3:19:24okay um and then once she's
3:19:28gone then is it B next or is did you
3:19:33pull CC out I pull C out okay so once
3:19:35cce's gone that was still there in the
3:19:38car alive and then you pull CC out what'
3:19:41you do with her
3:19:43okay so she went into the tank and Bella
3:19:48was still in the back of the truck
3:19:51alive um with regard to that tank did
3:19:55you bring up CCE put her down open the
3:19:59hatch brought her up over the hatch put
3:20:02her in okay when we talked the very
3:20:04first time we met when we were talking
3:20:06about this it was a matter just lower
3:20:08lowering her down okay and so she went
3:20:10in Fe first okay
3:20:12was she able to fit pretty well was it
3:20:16snug I think so okay did you have to
3:20:19like move her around a little bit and
3:20:21get her in there I think so okay all
3:20:25right I didn't have to like you know hit
3:20:27her like you know okay right that just
3:20:28not you stomped her no
3:20:31okay um and then close the
3:20:35hatch yes okay and then went down to
3:20:38Bella tell me what happened
3:20:40there
3:20:42she said what happened to
3:20:46CC
3:20:47she is the same thing exct same thing
3:20:51that happened to me as CC did she ask me
3:20:54that okay so's pretty
3:20:59smart how did she sound what she want
3:21:04dois soft for she always
3:21:06said what exactly was she
3:21:10say same thing that happened to me as DC
3:21:13and then I said I don't remember what I
3:21:18said I if I just said yes like a
3:21:20horrible person or if I just put this
3:21:23put that blanket over her too and did
3:21:25the same thing same blanket same way
3:21:29okay she said no Daddy and that's nice
3:21:32thing she said did she say no daddy like
3:21:35please no Daddy type thing and she say
3:21:37okay don't do it she says no daddy okay
3:21:44same way hand on neck hand of a mouth or
3:21:47hand of a blanket with you a mouth did
3:21:49that take a couple
3:21:51minutes like good
3:21:55okay then then
3:21:58what I does know she had a couple spots
3:22:00like over her eye or something
3:22:03and picked her
3:22:09up and we talked a little bit earlier
3:22:12today about it you don't remember why a
3:22:14different
3:22:16tank okay there was no reason I mean
3:22:19they're both same Tanks i they're just
3:22:21like I don't I don't know
3:22:23why there's one I never got up there
3:22:26does one catwalk lead to
3:22:28both oil can go on either tank okay but
3:22:32if you go up one set of ladders does
3:22:34that potentially indate one okay now
3:22:38Bella was a little bit bigger was she
3:22:39harder to get in the it felt like a
3:22:42little bit okay and so was it a matter
3:22:45of just kind of maneuvering her all
3:22:48right um so then they're both in
3:22:53there is there any reason to think they
3:22:55were
3:22:56alive when they F in okay you're pretty
3:22:59sure
3:23:01okay so once that's down
3:23:05de go
3:23:09man Le Pi a
3:23:13hole did you have a shovel yeah we have
3:23:16a shovel R can up we we rer as part of
3:23:20our with that rake if I remember right
3:23:24it was part of it sit there because it
3:23:26broken oh did it break as you were
3:23:27digging or something no when I was right
3:23:30I like smooting the ground over on this
3:23:33day it broke when you were doing that
3:23:34okay was that after you were all done
3:23:37and it seemed as though maybe the first
3:23:39people that got there saw was stuck in
3:23:41the ground I guess it was like not like
3:23:44standing up but it was like laying down
3:23:46oh okay were you planning on coming
3:23:49back I mean I don't know if I don't
3:23:52think
3:23:53so at this point then this is just
3:23:58before then in a couple of hours you
3:24:00would make it back home to see officer
3:24:02from gr okay and so once she's buried
3:24:06that mon that's
3:24:09when people start showing up
3:24:12I
3:24:13believe did you notice was she cut or
3:24:18broken or bleeding in
3:24:20way no I mean I know like the FL that
3:24:23eyes you were talking about I was done
3:24:25at that
3:24:26point other than
3:24:28that um had she partially given birth no
3:24:33do you remember I remember remember she
3:24:35had a shirt and think we one that we on
3:24:37okay that's so at that
3:24:40point
3:24:44thank you I know that
3:24:46wasn't can you can you tell us
3:24:49about I you know
3:24:52when the district attorney got up and
3:24:55talked about Bell injuries and stuff I
3:24:57didn't want to hear about that
3:25:00right can you tell us about
3:25:03that as far as like her biting her
3:25:06tongue and her thing her frenulum which
3:25:10is that connected skin from your lip to
3:25:12your gum it was gone her gums had like a
3:25:17what looked like a hole in them from and
3:25:20the pathologist said it was from her
3:25:23obviously struggling to get
3:25:25away know didn't know what that me
3:25:29yeah could it be that that's what
3:25:33happened so
3:25:38like I didn't put my hand like left over
3:25:40her like like that is that what you're
3:25:43talking about well it would have been
3:25:45just downward pressure on
3:25:47her this area I didn't I didn't see any
3:25:50of that one like it was like her lip was
3:25:53like missing or something no see this
3:25:55skin that connects there that was ripped
3:25:58like it was
3:26:01gone so it kind of made like a I'm just
3:26:05thinking maybe it's
3:26:08like maybe like if her Mountain hand was
3:26:11m
3:26:12for head was like twisting back and
3:26:15forth could that have done that I had a
3:26:16blanket I don't know
3:26:18like did you feel her doing that rashing
3:26:21or trying to get away I felt her head
3:26:23moving back and forth you did but I
3:26:26don't I I didn't know
3:26:28that could you tell if she was trying to
3:26:30yell or say anything or only thing was
3:26:34Daddy know and then like the
3:26:37some run here and there and like
3:26:42I
3:26:47de during that time you remember getting
3:26:50phone calls from Nicole
3:26:53Aon
3:26:56after before she got to my house or just
3:26:59any time during that morning I think I
3:27:01didn't get one until I saw her on my
3:27:04doorbell camera that was what
3:27:0710:00 yeah right okay and so at that
3:27:10time had everything been down out it's
3:27:123319 yeah I was at a different site was
3:27:14had a pumping init okay so you went from
3:27:17there when it was all done so girls are
3:27:19in the oil uh shenan in the ground and
3:27:23maybe a little bit of clean
3:27:25up um was there any questions we had
3:27:27about the sheets or any garbage cans or
3:27:30Garbage sacks no I think answer was
3:27:34already so then you went from that site
3:27:37to another site to work yeah because we
3:27:39had there's a at that 319 there was a
3:27:42little spill that that's that's most
3:27:45everybody showed up there because that
3:27:46spill that every to figure out what
3:27:48happened oh well you're on that subject
3:27:51we back up the the night before you had
3:27:53some text messaging about going out
3:27:55there can you talk about that a little
3:27:57bit yeah that was I think Friday that we
3:28:00had figured out there was a spill out
3:28:02there from like it's an old site set up
3:28:03a little different So what had happened
3:28:05was there's a downcomer and then there's
3:28:08a side Comer going into those oil tanks
3:28:10and one of the downcomers is tied into a
3:28:12back pressure line that split and every
3:28:14time I was dumping oil it was split on
3:28:16the ground and it was the oil was coming
3:28:18up okay the ground and we decided just
3:28:21to go out there on Monday because it was
3:28:23Friday and he had like switched it
3:28:25either he shut it in or switched switch
3:28:27line to covered it up and see if it
3:28:30could come back or not okay then it's
3:28:32more specifically you talked or your
3:28:34text about how you would go out there
3:28:36and take care I take care of it for him
3:28:38I've gone out there plenty of times okay
3:28:40but I I used when another guy was out
3:28:43there as far as another Foreman you
3:28:44showed me around out there like a year
3:28:46or so ago and I just got f with the
3:28:49place and just m okay and so that was a
3:28:53genuine was PR there was a lot of people
3:28:56that said that you wouldn't normally do
3:28:58that I normally help somebody no like
3:29:02field your position not you specifically
3:29:05but your position doesn't do that kind
3:29:06of stuff well that's the thing like when
3:29:08I was a Rover into a field cor I still
3:29:10try to do everything I used to do okay
3:29:12that's still like I wasn't good at
3:29:13delegating stuff I just used to just do
3:29:15stuff on my own or just like taking care
3:29:17of it for somebody else I wasn't good at
3:29:20the whole like hey you could do this you
3:29:22could do that or I sit over here well
3:29:25you see what it looks like to you know
3:29:27when it came up we're
3:29:28like making plans to be out there you
3:29:31know that
3:29:32day but that's not what it was no I was
3:29:37going to help
3:29:39them so how long were you there is what
3:29:41time do you think you were done with the
3:29:45girls AR really so I mean I think
3:29:48everybody start showing up there by
3:29:51around
3:29:537:45 8:00
3:29:56okay and then you were there did you see
3:29:58went to a different site yeah it's like
3:30:00the thing it was either the 1029 or the
3:30:04629 or something like that and so how
3:30:07long were you at that site the rest of
3:30:09the day until I got called away
3:30:11so then that was you were there for at
3:30:13least a couple hours until you heard
3:30:15Nicole ains h on the doorbell and then I
3:30:18think there was even more time after
3:30:19that until you started coming home Y and
3:30:21you got home at two to something no was
3:30:24closer to 1:30 there so somewhere around
3:30:28you know 9:00ish all the way till 12:30
3:30:31or 12 or 1 or something and then and
3:30:33they came home
3:30:35yeah um there was a lot to do about
3:30:40coming been listening that Metallica
3:30:42song have you heard about
3:30:45that heard of Metallica song that people
3:30:47have been sing s lrics to it help
3:30:50battery do you remember doing
3:30:52that that was uh Nikki C you like the
3:30:58song or she just wanted to know what it
3:30:59meant oh just that's that's why you
3:31:02looked at it I just kind of looked at
3:31:03the I didn't have to CD with me so I
3:31:05count I just kind of looked at the words
3:31:08and was that on the way home
3:31:11oh that was just a different time that
3:31:13time okay and so
3:31:15the
3:31:17battery but it's like you know it's it's
3:31:19more about like a like a family
3:31:21coinciding as a battery not like you
3:31:24know hitting somebody sure yeah why did
3:31:27want to know what it meant that no it
3:31:29was It was kind of strange I mean she
3:31:30she's very into different types of music
3:31:33and I mean music I never really thought
3:31:36I'd ever listen to and like she got me
3:31:38into a few things there as far as music
3:31:40was where like the battery was with
3:31:42something that she asked me CU I knew I
3:31:44knew pretty well she just wanted to know
3:31:46like hey what's this what's this the me
3:31:49I I just down just looked it up just to
3:31:52look at all the words together and just
3:31:53put it in put in my head again and I it
3:31:58made something
3:32:00out that's why was strange I got those
3:32:03lyrics in in a letter oh they so now
3:32:05does that make sense okay yeah someone
3:32:07tying lyrics to it yeah like that guy
3:32:09from California
3:32:12kid the
3:32:16senior
3:32:18um with regards to then when you get
3:32:22home the you and the officers you know
3:32:24saw what they saw you mentioned that you
3:32:27took the ring off her
3:32:28finger um and then the book did you
3:32:32throw that in trash yeah um there was
3:32:36another book body of
3:32:37evidence that something right you had in
3:32:40yourself
3:32:42body about um Trish Cornwell
3:32:46maybe
3:32:48probably
3:32:49County what was that about I was just
3:32:52one who gave me who gave it to you the
3:32:55uh
3:32:59Dees oh no they could give me books oh
3:33:02no any book that I had was given to me
3:33:03by their book card that they had you
3:33:07didn't ask for that book or they just
3:33:08kind of give me like book books um like
3:33:12military guy and Patricia Cornwell my
3:33:16grandma always read her books and
3:33:18thought it was I mean she was always she
3:33:20loved those books and I'm not sure that
3:33:22was probably one of the first books not
3:33:24the first book but probably the second
3:33:26book I read
3:33:28there but it like they had to G me
3:33:30here's four books Cho what other book
3:33:33did you read do you
3:33:34remember the first book they gave me
3:33:36when I was in suicide watch was I don't
3:33:40know why but murder her at
3:33:42something I was like I looked at him
3:33:44like that's that's the one we got like
3:33:48okay they handed you that by itself no
3:33:51other
3:33:52choices now the next B I got another guy
3:33:55that was I guess they're overcrowded
3:33:56there guy was sleeping on the C on side
3:33:58my door he's like here try this one that
3:34:00was one that was based like in the 1800
3:34:02it's more of like a like a situational
3:34:05book like a time period book so that was
3:34:07little more yeah calm but that one that
3:34:10was the first that game you don't
3:34:11remember what was called Murder at
3:34:13something at Truman
3:34:15Center Truman Center yeah I think it was
3:34:20um remember K Center K Center um I think
3:34:25it was by
3:34:28Margaret did you read it
3:34:32goodcent I never read a book in a long
3:34:35time so it
3:34:36was it was different but like like some
3:34:39of the books they gave you like when on
3:34:41hold I you're allowed to have books
3:34:42inide the Bible but the the uh the
3:34:46counselor is there let me have a couple
3:34:48books and they just like here AR that's
3:34:50one they
3:34:51had I told like mystery books or
3:34:54something like that and that's the
3:34:57one it's kind of crazy they're giving
3:34:59them like murderer
3:35:02BS you hope that it wasn't some sort of
3:35:05yeah insult or you
3:35:09know
3:35:13okay what are you thinking yourself
3:35:18b
3:35:20i back back when all this happened when
3:35:23I was in World County and everything
3:35:24it's I didn't definitely didn't feel
3:35:26like myself and more like in when my
3:35:29attorneys would talk to me and like know
3:35:31talk to some of my friends and like some
3:35:32of the stuff they would say like I go
3:35:35say good things but I'm just thinking
3:35:36myself not could even anybody even say
3:35:38those things about me now being what
3:35:41happened it's like people that I knew
3:35:44that never talk to again that like maybe
3:35:46I was like the roommate like back in the
3:35:48day or like went to school with or
3:35:50something like that they now they're
3:35:51just going say you know Chris wat that's
3:35:54you know guy the I guy I like to know
3:35:57get all this horrible stuff to his
3:35:59family now like I know I shouldn't
3:36:03really you
3:36:06know take to heart what other people
3:36:08think about me so much it's just matter
3:36:10of like what God thinks about me what I
3:36:13what like what he thinks what his
3:36:14opinion is not not anybody
3:36:16else's everybody going to have their
3:36:18opinion about it but like before I got
3:36:21in trouble I mean I was always hey look
3:36:24judge somebody on TV you know like like
3:36:26that guy that's no orang jum that guy
3:36:28that's you know that killed that guy
3:36:30that guy that rap that somebody and I
3:36:32like oh you know that guy's horrible now
3:36:34I'm the it's like now like when we come
3:36:38out like 6 6 o' at night and there's
3:36:40something on the news like I try not to
3:36:41even pay attention to it it's like I
3:36:43don't want to be in that position where
3:36:44I'm jumping somebody else
3:36:47cuz that's you know what people were
3:36:49doing with me I don't want to be that
3:36:51person anymore but just hope that I can
3:36:55you know step back kind of look at
3:36:56everything that I've done in my life and
3:36:58then like up to that point and just like
3:37:01I did some good things but matter of the
3:37:03most important thing I for your that's
3:37:06hope I can at least maybe help somebody
3:37:09from the
3:37:10however much time I
3:37:13have was was it your intent the whole
3:37:16time you were taking the girls out there
3:37:18that they were you going to do that
3:37:23honestly like when I got this when I got
3:37:25there I didn't I didn't think it was
3:37:26going to like you talk about the tanks
3:37:28and just yeah like well just I mean I
3:37:32just thought process all this Mak sense
3:37:35that's why I know you guys keep asking
3:37:37questions because it doesn't make sense
3:37:38to
3:37:39me I guess I mean like did
3:37:43you you could have done it before you
3:37:45guys left I and not had him you know
3:37:47alive in the back seat they could have
3:37:49been with shenan back seat I didn't
3:37:52think about anything really like as far
3:37:54as like how everything was going to
3:37:55happen I don't know like why like why I
3:38:00left everything out there in the field
3:38:02and why like all this stuff like none of
3:38:05this makes
3:38:07sense at
3:38:09all
3:38:11but to Tammy's
3:38:14Point did you think that they might be
3:38:16coming back or you know they
3:38:21wouldn't oh
3:38:23it's man the whole trip out there I mean
3:38:26it like I was on like I wasn't thinking
3:38:28I was
3:38:34like like in my mind right now I'm
3:38:36thinking back like I'm hoping that I
3:38:39wasn't like
3:38:41that I wasn't coherent enough to make
3:38:43that decision to where I knew I was
3:38:44going to kill my girls I was I'm just
3:38:47hoping that you know like like no no
3:38:49father would want ever want to do
3:38:50anything to hurt his his blood flesh but
3:38:53I did that and I just don't understand
3:38:54how it
3:38:57happened I mean I even read books that
3:39:00say you know like no no guy would ever
3:39:01do anything to hurt his children this
3:39:05Happ so I always thinking myself like
3:39:08did I was I even a dad at one point I
3:39:10don't
3:39:11know but I
3:39:17just just going to take a long long time
3:39:20to guilt and everything to get
3:39:23just you ask for
3:39:26forgiveness God
3:39:29yeah it just takes a long time for me to
3:39:31forget
3:39:34myself that's one
3:39:39thing
3:39:53to thank you one day for getting me
3:40:00too I think I think you said earlier
3:40:02that you were so angry at shenan or
3:40:05whatever that you were going to you know
3:40:08anyone in your path of destruction or
3:40:11whatever was going to get it basically I
3:40:12that is what kind of made it sound like
3:40:14I'm not saying that exactly right but
3:40:16why were you so angry at
3:40:19chenine I don't know if it was just
3:40:21because of separating me and my family
3:40:24pretty much cuz I mean it happened at
3:40:25the wedding like that's the reason they
3:40:27didn't come to the
3:40:28wedding I blew up in my family to a
3:40:32point where I said some horrible things
3:40:34to them back you know back in 2012 that
3:40:37I you
3:40:38know pretty much was told my family that
3:40:41you know I don't need them anymore I
3:40:44have I I said you know I cussed my mom
3:40:47out I did all this kind of stuff I never
3:40:49thought you know I don't know if it was
3:40:52just like fan coaching me on to do it or
3:40:54if it was just like raage that was like
3:40:56I'd never seen before and then I don't
3:40:59know if it was just everything that
3:41:00happened in July
3:41:02but they can't see my kids and I'm not
3:41:06sure if they would they're ever going to
3:41:07go see them again I don't know and it
3:41:09was just like I don't know if that had
3:41:11something to do with it that something
3:41:12inside of me just triggered it and it
3:41:13just like all that ends up from the
3:41:15wedding and everything just
3:41:18like like there a long viewers that
3:41:21finally just want to
3:41:25attend what happened in
3:41:272012 there was
3:41:30a my mom just like like from when
3:41:34I proposed to her it was at the beach
3:41:38and from then on it was like she always
3:41:42went up to Shen's like I didn't need a
3:41:44ring like that when I was your age I
3:41:45don't I didn't need all these fancy
3:41:46things when I was your age and just kind
3:41:49of kept boiling over and boiling over
3:41:50and we just kept they never agree on
3:41:52anything it was just like you know they
3:41:55we didn't really need their help to do
3:41:57anything we just like we'll just pay for
3:41:59it ourselves and all that kind of stuff
3:42:00and you know it was just back and forth
3:42:03and I I think maybe my mom just never
3:42:07thought she was good enough she always
3:42:09thought she was hiding something from
3:42:12me she always thought shenan was hiding
3:42:14something like what I stuff from her
3:42:17past or like you know oh I see
3:42:21yeah there conflict out of barbecue when
3:42:24all the families got
3:42:26together and first maybe a barbecue CH
3:42:30in put together for everybody to get
3:42:32meet each other two families that we
3:42:34called about like when you first started
3:42:37dating
3:42:38oh I remember we did have something like
3:42:41that but I didn't I don't remember like
3:42:43a any kind of arguments at any place
3:42:46like that I know
3:42:48like when I proposed to her Shan had her
3:42:52family come down to the beach too they
3:42:53said stayed at a separate separate
3:42:56house as far as like a barbecue right I
3:42:58don't remember what that was like that
3:43:00wa before them yeah I remember the I
3:43:03remember the time when I asked Frank
3:43:06to okay asked sh to marry her remember
3:43:09that we get together I don't
3:43:15think so then what was the book the way
3:43:18about it was just my
3:43:21mom and pretty much my sister
3:43:24just don't like her because it was they
3:43:27just thought you know that I that they
3:43:32that shenan had taken me away from them
3:43:34and me out in Colorado oh cuz we we were
3:43:38in Colorado we flew back back to get
3:43:40married oh cuz I we had we went to
3:43:45Colorado for Thanksgiving to visit some
3:43:47friends and we decided to move out there
3:43:50like a couple months
3:43:52later so like so that was like
3:43:55April I moved out there April 2012 we
3:43:58got married in November 2012 nor
3:44:00Carolina so they always thought that was
3:44:02just taking me and she took me away out
3:44:05there and is there something with
3:44:07invitations or something sister was
3:44:10supposed to send invitation yeah there
3:44:12was okay
3:44:14bring um there's something to do with
3:44:17that and then my sister wanted you know
3:44:19her kids oh my sister wanted her kids
3:44:23like the ring bear and like something
3:44:25else ring bear and flower girl and then
3:44:28Shen like you
3:44:30know told her not or oh wait either
3:44:34shenan told her not or jamy backed out
3:44:36of because of something else and then it
3:44:39just like all love and is that pretty
3:44:41close to the wedding yes yeah couple did
3:44:45they go to the wedding your family uh my
3:44:47grandma did your parents and your sister
3:44:49did not
3:44:51go Ronnie wasn't there
3:44:54either nobody was there my grandma was
3:44:58there and then like the the dance one I
3:45:01us bring like you know the the gro mom
3:45:04like up P the March mom my
3:45:08grand
3:45:11it's sad isn't it it all comes from a
3:45:13place of love you know them loving you
3:45:15and not wanting to get stolen it was a
3:45:18it was a great day I mean everybody was
3:45:20really happy I mean it's it's always
3:45:21just rang in the back of my head they
3:45:23there and every time they look at
3:45:25pictures and just like oh
3:45:37where's never knew if they actually were
3:45:39going to to come anyways but as far as
3:45:42like you know sometimes they'll just
3:45:43like all we're just going to go just
3:45:45just to be there but they never knew it
3:45:47that what the
3:45:49cas so when T was asking why were you so
3:45:52mad at
3:45:53shenan
3:45:55um it was part of it just this whole
3:45:58family
3:45:59strive that's the only thing I can think
3:46:01of right now because I mean there's no
3:46:03other reason really to be mad at her she
3:46:06we took care of each other whole that
3:46:08boy years what like a good
3:46:12relationship I mean it's just like if I
3:46:15never met Nikki would I ever have you
3:46:17know thought our relationship was bad
3:46:20probably
3:46:23not that's one thing I always thought
3:46:25about like even Nikki asked me like if
3:46:27you know I don't want you she said I
3:46:29don't want you to leave your wife if
3:46:30just because of me I'm just like like
3:46:32what do you mean she said well just you
3:46:36met me like would you have known I'm
3:46:38like
3:46:41oh I never thought I would have
3:46:42straighted away from her at all like
3:46:45I've never followed I tried to follow
3:46:47anybody you know did was shean checking
3:46:50your phone or she always my phone she
3:46:53always checking your phone so how did
3:46:54you get pass that I to
3:47:00text and you had seen secret apps say
3:47:04that was on my personal
3:47:06one were using anything else to contact
3:47:10have contact with her I just text her my
3:47:13we phone I just and like uh when the
3:47:18kids went to North Carolina she was my
3:47:19personal phone and she just told me like
3:47:22to put pictures in a an app and I just
3:47:25found that calculator I just put you
3:47:27know just searched on the the App Store
3:47:31like hiden pictures that's calculator
3:47:33app like can you your iCloud or your
3:47:36whatever isn't linked together so she
3:47:38would know if you're getting it you know
3:47:41downloading apps and stuff like that
3:47:43they used to be a long time ago but when
3:47:45we got different uh different phones for
3:47:48U when our phone like our phone contact
3:47:52list be sync up from the cloud and stuff
3:47:54like I just I couldn't have like she had
3:47:55like tons tons tons of like phone
3:47:58contacts just couldn't have all that but
3:47:59it's still kind of linked up at one
3:48:01point but as far as like she asked me to
3:48:03get my my own iCloud account this still
3:48:06got free that up a little
3:48:08bit how about your Facebook account you
3:48:11deleted that some point when did you do
3:48:13that and
3:48:16why got back August
3:48:197 went I think it was probably August
3:48:238th that's when um the was told me she
3:48:26told her friends about
3:48:29me and I just you know they fight with
3:48:31me up on Facebook and see that she know
3:48:34pregnant if think you already found new
3:48:37probably already but I did
3:48:41that did you and Nikki ever
3:48:44fight we never fought but like I said I
3:48:47had to like calm her down a bunch of
3:48:48times yeah you you started to mention
3:48:51that when we were talking to about her
3:48:54getting upset about some video or
3:48:56something about being bipolar or well
3:48:58she I think either my dad told me about
3:49:01that or Don wsh told me about like she
3:49:03she made a couple videos like when she
3:49:05was just like you know talking to
3:49:06herself saying that she was bipolar or
3:49:08something like that a lot of things
3:49:11like when she realized that okay like
3:49:13she's the other person in the
3:49:15relationship that always put my wife
3:49:18first over her and that's what kind of
3:49:20made her chance toep take a step back a
3:49:22few times and then like I have to kind
3:49:24like calm her down tell me about those
3:49:26times what' that look like so the first
3:49:28one was probably around July 4th when I
3:49:30had to leave her house so because she
3:49:32she wanted to kind of spend most of the
3:49:33day got before she went to like a
3:49:35baseball game or something and like when
3:49:37I had to leave it kind of just said I
3:49:39just made her like kind of take a step
3:49:41back and wonder what she was
3:49:42doing and I just you know told her like
3:49:45okay you
3:49:45know just because of what's go like just
3:49:49because I had to leave doesn't mean like
3:49:50you know you have to just take a I was I
3:49:53was like comforting her at some point I
3:49:55don't even know why I was doing it maybe
3:49:56I I knew I was too far gone that at that
3:49:59point but it was this is Shan's pissed
3:50:02she's called you 10 times you were
3:50:04sleeping your day off and then you go
3:50:07outside to talk to her on the phone
3:50:08until um Nikki that you need to go home
3:50:10just in case she calls back and all that
3:50:13right mhm so what did she say to you
3:50:15Nikki she was in the shower she said
3:50:17okay and then that's like when I un
3:50:19talked about I calm her down on my
3:50:23phone and was she like we breaking up
3:50:26like we're not going to no no no she
3:50:28said like she didn't want to like she
3:50:30didn't think it was safe or it was good
3:50:32for us to see each other anymore that
3:50:33day like rest of that day just because
3:50:36of all that and I'm like okay that's
3:50:38fine and she asked me to come over like
3:50:39later on after she got back from her
3:50:41baseball game so you did that so what
3:50:44was the second one like it was basically
3:50:47about the same thing she was you know I
3:50:50didn't really know it at one point but I
3:50:51guess she had uh set up a couple dates
3:50:54with like some eHarmony app or something
3:50:56and they never showed up and uh she'
3:50:58already made plans with me and you know
3:51:02wait what do you mean she set up dates
3:51:03when she had plans with you yeah why
3:51:06would she do that I guess she kind of
3:51:07figured out they weren't going to show
3:51:08up
3:51:09she went I guess one one I guess when
3:51:12she went the baseball game they never
3:51:13showed up and there was another one and
3:51:15never showed up either so she's actively
3:51:16dating other
3:51:19people couple weeks later I had you find
3:51:24out what' she say she um it was
3:51:28something it was one conversation where
3:51:29I actually kind of fell asleep on the
3:51:31couch and then like she had tell me like
3:51:33not sure why she told me about it but it
3:51:36was it was very random and she could
3:51:40tell it kind of like took me back a
3:51:41little bit because I figured she would
3:51:42have told me that if she was actively
3:51:45still like looking around I mean she
3:51:47didn't have to tell me but I fig you
3:51:50think she told you though so that it
3:51:51would hurry you up and make Deion your
3:51:54making disc it might have been but you
3:51:57know
3:51:59it's she never had anybody that actually
3:52:02tried to like fix things as far as like
3:52:04you know hey like I like what we're
3:52:06where we're at as far as like the
3:52:07relationship goes and
3:52:09actually like I did stuff for her around
3:52:11the house around her little
3:52:13apartment done that she just thought it
3:52:16was
3:52:17different what about our male friend
3:52:20where does he stand with her what's his
3:52:21name Jim Jim thank you um he worked in
3:52:26the oil field North Dakota I
3:52:29believe
3:52:31and he guess it's been a friend of hers
3:52:34for a long time and it's kind of like a
3:52:36shoulder C on always somebody that's
3:52:38always been around for
3:52:39her guess he had like he's had a couple
3:52:42girlfriends
3:52:44and guess had had much luck I guess in
3:52:48that department as far as like keeping
3:52:50girlfriends and just and N all been good
3:52:54friends plutonic friends that's you know
3:52:58as much as I knew
3:52:59yeah but I think they just they just
3:53:02been friends for a long time especially
3:53:03up in oilfield North Dakota or whatever
3:53:06he's working on I think either Wild they
3:53:09go all over the
3:53:13place when um Sandy and Frank lived in
3:53:16the house 15 months what was that like
3:53:20it was you know it was
3:53:24tough me away no okay um it was tough
3:53:29know because I mean go from just me and
3:53:32J Bella and CC to you know two other
3:53:35people and then now four dogs yeah
3:53:39yeah Onyx is a he a teror 100 lb of just
3:53:43heat seeking missile everywhere and like
3:53:45it was it was cool having more people
3:53:48around but like it it was stressful yeah
3:53:51like I mean because
3:53:54wishan like having two dominant
3:53:57Personalities in the house and with her
3:53:59mom there it was kind of like what her
3:54:01mom would tell her kind of how to race
3:54:02the kids sometimes or like you know do
3:54:04this do that you know like whenever they
3:54:06were sick she was like all right you
3:54:07know rub peroxide on the feet f
3:54:09just like what okay and uh like I
3:54:13wouldn't do it you know say like just do
3:54:16that okay but like it's just like little
3:54:18things like that and it was like a clash
3:54:21every day yeah it's kind of like every
3:54:23time I got home I didn't know if was
3:54:24pissed or if she was okay
3:54:27because when we first got when they
3:54:29first got there they they didn't have a
3:54:30job yet and so they're just around all
3:54:32the time but then like once they got
3:54:33jobs and stuff
3:54:35like and I think it was a little better
3:54:37for Shang cuz you know they weren't
3:54:39around the house all
3:54:40day but it was definitely stressful just
3:54:43you know vacuuming like every other day
3:54:46yeah and just like I mean cooking was
3:54:49great that was
3:54:51awesome but
3:54:53good I was always like you know cuz they
3:54:56live they were down in the basement so I
3:54:57was I was always really trying to keep
3:54:59the girls upstairs while they were
3:55:01sleeping so you know they're running
3:55:02around downstairs and I didn't want him
3:55:04to wake up and I know Frank always told
3:55:07me that try playing up Sandy early is
3:55:09not good so it was just you know just
3:55:12kind like walking on eggshells a lot
3:55:14yeah it was stressful yeah yeah you
3:55:17think that stressed your marriage with
3:55:20the time or I mean it it was 16 months
3:55:23it was 15 16 months yeah it was it was a
3:55:26long time I mean it was it was great
3:55:27around the holiday times CU they were
3:55:29already there and like all that was
3:55:32great
3:55:33sure yeah definitely you know we never
3:55:36really had much alone time yeah you
3:55:38always had that kind of plan it out
3:55:41so yeah what was their purpose for
3:55:44living out there they want to be close
3:55:46to the kids because they're you know we
3:55:49P time a lot but you know it's not the
3:55:51same like right but two kids hard to fly
3:55:53back and forth I mean when they went
3:55:55back to North Carolina this past time
3:55:57was first time CeCe been there she was
3:55:59three yeah first time her brother ever
3:56:01met
3:56:03her so they trying to were they trying
3:56:05to move to Colorado permanently or they
3:56:07just they were thinking about it that
3:56:08point in time okay but you know Franklin
3:56:12St he didn't want to leave
3:56:15s she wanted to go back yeah
3:56:18yeah yeah it was it was a matter of like
3:56:21they knew their house wasn't being taken
3:56:22care of and they just they wanted to go
3:56:26back and make they they had put their
3:56:28house up for sale for a little while but
3:56:30never
3:56:33bought what about your financial
3:56:37stresses yeah bankruptcy was something I
3:56:40never thought was going to happen I
3:56:43think that was back in like 2015
3:56:47201 but I never thought that was going
3:56:50to happen and I never thought a lot of
3:56:52was from the wedding because they just
3:56:53thr on credit
3:56:55cards
3:56:57and so it was and then the doctor bills
3:57:00I'm like you know in the Scot bees and
3:57:03just like girls were seem like they sick
3:57:05like every every month seemed like some
3:57:08type of ear infection which figure out
3:57:11just like you know put the tubs in ears
3:57:12and stuff there's like no different
3:57:14operations here couple overnight stay in
3:57:16the hospital for breathing and stuff
3:57:17like
3:57:18that it was just it all mounted up I
3:57:21never thought it was that far gone but
3:57:25you know was any of that from Shannon's
3:57:27neck surgery or those bills pretty well
3:57:29paid up well I think the bankruptcy
3:57:32never touch the medical part of it
3:57:34because it's you have to be like
3:57:37like spy the like the medical part of it
3:57:40medical bankruptcy and then there's like
3:57:42regular bankruptcy how think bankruptcy
3:57:44ever touches is like student loans or
3:57:46medical stuff yeah just like be specific
3:57:50that okay but I think it just took away
3:57:53like a lot of the furniture that we had
3:57:55bought and then couple other things
3:57:58inside the
3:58:00house kind of alleviate a lot I I didn't
3:58:04I mean it
3:58:05took I mean every we had to make the
3:58:08house came up by phone every month and I
3:58:10looks at the bankruptcy skill like every
3:58:12time and it's just like I didn't know
3:58:14how long it was going to
3:58:16take but apparently it was you're in
3:58:20Banker pretty much you never get out of
3:58:21it you know I think it felt like you
3:58:24guys weren't you guys behind on your
3:58:27mortgage earlier and like think December
3:58:332017 and then January February
3:58:36March 2018
3:58:39that's why I took the 4 we took the 401K
3:58:41out the loan out to pay for
3:58:44that how was it you were spending so
3:58:46much money down you know kids and just
3:58:51other bills that we had
3:58:53and I mean I knew the car was getting
3:58:56paid for it by the by the Bell you know
3:58:58I never really asked do you like I mean
3:59:00I didn't even have access to the bank
3:59:02account in my phone oh so like I I never
3:59:05really asked to see what it what it
3:59:06looked like like how far I just know
3:59:08called called me and tell me hey can you
3:59:10pay the marks today yeah
3:59:12cool that was you know from the from my
3:59:16little fourwh incident where I sold it
3:59:19without actually paying it off yet and
3:59:21she thought like I never touch that
3:59:22count ever ever so I'm like okay that's
3:59:25cool with me but
3:59:29it's I never saw the account for blood
3:59:31in I just like hey there's like when I
3:59:33work the long for I got my check I just
3:59:34brought it there
3:59:37yes there was a hair care company I
3:59:39think it's called monat that ringing
3:59:42Bell you know anything about that like
3:59:44maybe hair maybe hair guy I don't know
3:59:47look like
3:59:49a um do you know she did like an auto
3:59:51order to that company and has stuff
3:59:54delivered anything product
3:59:58her that's something I mean she had like
4:00:01little there something like a little
4:00:03gift pack she had delivered every like
4:00:05once every month once every two months a
4:00:08different array of different products in
4:00:11it don't remember where it's from
4:00:16okay say Monet mon m m n
4:00:23a
4:00:25well there's a there's an order that was
4:00:28made like 251 that's what I asked if was
4:00:31like an auto order type it might have
4:00:33been an auto order it might have been
4:00:35something that I know that Nicole ainson
4:00:38she sended all that stuff maybe maybe
4:00:40she got her maybe she got her something
4:00:43or maybe there something she recommended
4:00:48okay how about the HOA thing what
4:00:51happened there she has mail to the wrong
4:00:53address they changed her address and she
4:00:55mailed to the wrong address for a year
4:00:57and then they we got a letter in the
4:01:00mail we didn't like suit over it we pay
4:01:02choice for a
4:01:04year so we had to pay double for either
4:01:07a whole year couple
4:01:10months what happen all the money that
4:01:12she sent to the wrong address don't
4:01:15know I they said they wouldn't credit it
4:01:18or anything I'm not sure what the
4:01:20address
4:01:25was she said it was just something that
4:01:27she didn't see like I'm not GNA I wasn't
4:01:31she she she did so much so it's like I'm
4:01:33not going to
4:01:34like
4:01:36doing don't mean that
4:01:40I you go
4:01:42back so Chris what do you think we could
4:01:44have done
4:01:45better what what could have made you
4:01:48tell us the truth that
4:01:52night what did you need to hear from us
4:01:55that you
4:01:59didn't not
4:02:02really I'm not sure what really goes to
4:02:04people's minds when they're in an
4:02:07interogation
4:02:09in mind when I was in there with you I
4:02:12was I
4:02:14mean I was you know nervous I was I mean
4:02:18I knew I had done something wrong and I
4:02:20knew you probably already knew or
4:02:21already want to find out it's just
4:02:24like you know watched enough know like
4:02:28TV shows to kind of see like okay what's
4:02:29going to happen next type thing never
4:02:31knew if it actually right
4:02:35but I think it's just the
4:02:39the horror of like knowing what you did
4:02:41and trying to tell somebody else what
4:02:43you
4:02:43did that's what kept me from doing it
4:02:46because I I didn't even want to admit to
4:02:48myself that I had done
4:02:51anything so I knew I knew what I had
4:02:53done I knew how bad horrific it was I
4:02:56knew how bad I was going to hurt other
4:02:58people I didn't I just couldn't even
4:03:01admit to myself that I had done it ex I
4:03:03I couldn't even tell my CS I did it
4:03:04until like two weeks later so were you
4:03:07trying to save us from the or or it was
4:03:10just a matter I could admit to myself
4:03:12how could I admit it to
4:03:15you so do you think any amount of us
4:03:18asking you things different ways would
4:03:20have helped or do you think anything
4:03:22would have
4:03:24helped I think if maybe you didn't ask
4:03:27about if shenan hurt the kids do would
4:03:29ask the other that you
4:03:31know something in that a different order
4:03:33of question maybe it it would have came
4:03:35out a different
4:03:37way because that's the only reason I
4:03:39went with that s is because that was
4:03:41well you weren't giving us
4:03:43anything that was the problem but so if
4:03:45you think if we would have said what do
4:03:48you
4:03:53think you would have said you know I
4:03:57think you'd have probably had to if if
4:03:58the video didn't show them in the truck
4:04:00you probably had to have lied and just
4:04:02said we we saw the kids in the
4:04:05truck I mean I hate to say you have you
4:04:08to have you know lied to get me to say
4:04:11what you wanted me to say but it might
4:04:13have been
4:04:15that that we saw the kids in the
4:04:18truck when we were talking there was a
4:04:20point where you just said can I talk to
4:04:22my dad you just want to tell him first I
4:04:26just wanted to you know tell him that
4:04:28you know that I love him and
4:04:31that probably the last time we going to
4:04:33see me again as far as you
4:04:36know outside of
4:04:39aide of a
4:04:44cell you're looking forward to
4:04:46C yeah because I'm just talking on the
4:04:48phone you know it's just totally
4:04:49different when you see him you see a
4:04:51face you know it's like when we got on
4:04:53that little video conference in W County
4:04:55it was like that was all I could do just
4:04:57stop not to like just break down that
4:04:59phone
4:05:01so it would be it would be good to see
4:05:04them what do you get to do when they're
4:05:06here like this get a room like this with
4:05:09the there's a visiting room visiting
4:05:10center like down in my unit and I don't
4:05:13know what it looks like but I know they
4:05:15say it's like
4:05:16T it's pretty much they they set up a
4:05:19time and get a couple
4:05:24hours yeah just in that little Center
4:05:26and I'm not sure what else is in there
4:05:28but I just know there's tables I think
4:05:30of like V ma but
4:05:33it it would be good to see them and
4:05:36fortunately they can't bring their
4:05:37phones in right so I was hoping they can
4:05:39maybe show me on video or two but I
4:05:42don't know or
4:05:44picture but they pretty much let you
4:05:46come in with your
4:05:48ID can they mail you Ste photos or
4:05:51anything like that yep they can do still
4:05:54photo this sometime they try to play a
4:05:55video with the phone for me and it's
4:05:57like know it's really like fuzzy crack
4:06:04lot you have any other questions for us
4:06:07youever one
4:06:08I wonder why they did this or I wonder
4:06:09why the investigation of this way
4:06:14or I mean I
4:06:18mean I think the first time I I got was
4:06:21brought in I think it was like the 14th
4:06:25believe when I met to you that night you
4:06:27told me there was a bunch of other
4:06:28people coming in for statements was that
4:06:32true yeah yeah there was a couple people
4:06:35okay there were a lot there were a lot
4:06:40whole board worth of people listed and
4:06:43out they didn't get the attention
4:06:51to I just I just switched on and said
4:06:53happen honestly like you guys could
4:06:56have never had to come and you guys
4:06:58never had to meet me or anything like
4:07:05that none of it ever felt real
4:07:08especially like when I when they put me
4:07:10in that that suicide watch sell and last
4:07:13thing that one of those guys said was
4:07:15like good luck slam the door and I just
4:07:18kind knew from then on how how was
4:07:21it the deputy said that uh one of the
4:07:26guys one they call the S guys Special
4:07:29Operations here in the WV
4:07:32yeah that was it next morning like when
4:07:35I got out take a shower I saw news paper
4:07:38and there's this big piece cut out of it
4:07:41know what that was about and I kind of
4:07:42saw like my last stand around like
4:07:49go we came back to talk to you someday
4:07:52would you want to talk to us again okay
4:07:55they just took me off guard I had no
4:07:57idea
4:07:59yeah we didn't really want to tell you
4:08:01we were coming because we didn't want
4:08:02you to have anxiety about this coming
4:08:05not anxiety yeah so we figured the lit
4:08:07attack was probably the best course to
4:08:11like the first time we met recky oh you
4:08:13knew when you were meeting me I just did
4:08:17you just don't have all your props here
4:08:18today that's right certain props man
4:08:21those sophisticated equipment it is
4:08:24right
4:08:25right spef an instrument I don't know
4:08:28that that's GNA happen we might not ever
4:08:30see each other
4:08:31again but I think we would honestly your
4:08:35experience is definitely interesting
4:08:38um you yourself are
4:08:42definitely we see things in you that we
4:08:44didn't expect to and we don't see things
4:08:46and you think we expected to see so it's
4:08:49very interesting to us and it's um I
4:08:52hope you can take a heart that today was
4:08:54a lot about us learning how to do
4:08:56better how to talk to people better how
4:08:58to do investigations better I mean like
4:09:01I had never talked to a police officer
4:09:03before or like FBI CBI anything like
4:09:06that so that was all new to me like like
4:09:08I said everything that I've ever seen as
4:09:09far as you know the authorities have
4:09:12been on to me so I I didn't know like
4:09:15what to expect espe when I got that
4:09:16interrogation room just felt like
4:09:18exactly what it looked like just like no
4:09:21you guys poke and PR and then leave come
4:09:25back in it's like give me time to St
4:09:27time to like you know think and it's
4:09:28just like it works it just really like I
4:09:32don't know just drills more questions
4:09:35into your own mind and set up like like
4:09:37you know just staying in the room and
4:09:39just asking questions all the time mhm
4:09:41you liked it when we took breaks like
4:09:43you think that worked on you I did you
4:09:46were like watching vide of the girls at
4:09:48one point do you remember that them
4:09:51giggling and laughing and like when I
4:09:53was in the interrogation room
4:09:57yeah you don't I didn't I didn't I
4:10:00thought you had my already had my phone
4:10:02no we didn't take your phone towards the
4:10:03end towards the end okay
4:10:08that was weird for
4:10:09me that's like when you put that picture
4:10:13in front of me yeah and that's what F
4:10:15made me do it because I didn't have a
4:10:18signal in there but that's like videos I
4:10:20had on my
4:10:21phone was just like I wish I had taken
4:10:24those videos out more often before all
4:10:26that happened
4:10:27but that
4:10:29definitely definitely got in my head a
4:10:34lot I don't know where that picture was
4:10:37from I never seen that picture the one
4:10:39we show you really I never seen she seen
4:10:41that dress
4:10:43before really we talk all about lot
4:10:45about that dress that just making it up
4:10:48I've never saw her that dress you were
4:10:49even telling us when she last wore the
4:10:51dress and the boots not that dress those
4:10:54are her favorite winter boots and she
4:10:56was summer winter boots yeah but that
4:10:58white dress was a little different I
4:10:59never seen that picture no cuz you
4:11:02talked about buttoning it up you said I
4:11:05remember cuz I just she just for the
4:11:07other day and I had to button up the
4:11:09back and it's been different Dr but not
4:11:11that one
4:11:14huh that that picture was that North
4:11:17Carolina or is that I I don't know where
4:11:20thect Facebook Shannon's Facebook so
4:11:23maybe it was while you weren't there or
4:11:25something you don't recall that huh CU
4:11:28there's a lot of pictures I guess I had
4:11:30can see North Carolina that my parents
4:11:33have like especially like Fourth of July
4:11:36and stuff and like fourth July dresses
4:11:37on something like that I never saw
4:11:40oh some I had in my phone but you know
4:11:42that that white dress and never like
4:11:44they were like she was going to church
4:11:46or something I just never saw that white
4:11:48this andell little dress that she
4:11:51had her little a little awkward smile
4:11:54there in the
4:11:58back yeah that that definitely
4:12:03might did the when we have the picture
4:12:06out there for you
4:12:08see to us it didn't feel like that we
4:12:10didn't elit any
4:12:14emotion my dad like we don't show
4:12:16emotion like were you fighting it down
4:12:18or were you just not a guy to show it
4:12:21like most of the time I'm not a guy to
4:12:22show it like I I hold it in as much as I
4:12:25can and like KN myself I've you know
4:12:27pred a lot obviously
4:12:31but like I'm not really a got show
4:12:34what I don't like I know
4:12:38I try to hold as much as I
4:12:41can you were a difficult guy to
4:12:44read especially at the house that
4:12:48day that makes total
4:12:53sense I I knew it was like I like in
4:12:56shock or just like disbelief or just
4:12:58like some people said I look like I was
4:12:59a
4:13:00heartless no soul person soulless
4:13:03person when they did like the TV
4:13:06interviews or something I'm just like G
4:13:08I saw
4:13:10it I don't even want to know what I
4:13:12looked like what I sounded
4:13:16like but you obviously feeling it then
4:13:19you just weren't yeah just like nothing
4:13:21registered at all everything was like
4:13:24just harbored deep down and then like I
4:13:26think it was just one night when I was
4:13:28on myself just all hit me all at one
4:13:30point not the fact that I was in jail
4:13:32but fact that like everybody was gone
4:13:35right and none of it
4:13:38I think if it was like an know like if
4:13:41something happens to your family like in
4:13:42like an accident like a car accident or
4:13:44like something like horrible like that
4:13:46they have to registers at one point but
4:13:48if like you did it I don't know if like
4:13:51it just doesn't register point it's it's
4:13:54like in my head it never registered does
4:13:57it seem real now oh it's it felt feels
4:14:00real like like I see pictures I just
4:14:03know like you know where they were at
4:14:05when they were doing that you know where
4:14:07then when I first had like a some type
4:14:09of hearing over the phone and I heard
4:14:11like uh Frank and Sandy and Frankie and
4:14:14the they on the phone and I forgot what
4:14:17kind of hearing it was something about
4:14:20like a probate hearing or something I
4:14:21knew exactly where they were in the back
4:14:22I heard the birst trip I knew they were
4:14:23on the back deck and I just like walked
4:14:26back to myself just B my eyes I knew got
4:14:28where they
4:14:29were I know how many times the girls
4:14:31were were back there
4:14:33and it's just weird how Mo motion is
4:14:35process differently for me everybody
4:14:37else
4:14:38M like something like you said like you
4:14:41said like um you lost your kids in the
4:14:44grocery store for 5 seconds she'd be a a
4:14:46mess and then like you
4:14:49know for me it'd be like you know I'd be
4:14:52I'd be panicked by ibly would cry I'd be
4:14:53like like looking around trying to find
4:14:55them but it's like it just process
4:14:56different me I never knew why never know
4:15:06why
4:15:09I don't want to think I'm like a
4:15:10coldhearted person it's just a matter
4:15:12of don't show it show that the emotion
4:15:15as much as other people
4:15:19do even when like you know the girls
4:15:23left North Carolina like you know her
4:15:25chance brother mom and dad were all
4:15:27crying when they left and it's just kind
4:15:29of like you know I never really saw my
4:15:31parents get like that when they
4:15:34left like I don't know if it's like
4:15:36you're born now wor like your family
4:15:38doesn't show emotion like that is that
4:15:40what you're saying yeah like you
4:15:42know my dad couldn't really speak at the
4:15:45sentencing hearing because he said he
4:15:47was kind of like he was he said he was
4:15:48going to lose
4:15:49it like like lose his emotion like
4:15:52really hit me just kind like I never
4:15:53seen him like you know like that
4:15:56like like
4:15:59vulnerable but nobody really ever seen
4:16:01me that way either that's why like maybe
4:16:03I just was it ever like your [ __ ] if
4:16:05you're like that or was it just
4:16:07something you just just never
4:16:09did I never saw my dad cry or maybe it's
4:16:13just something that you know was in in
4:16:15my brain that maybe I shouldn't have cry
4:16:18maybe was your mom like a loving mom
4:16:20like a doting mom and you know would
4:16:23give you affection and hugs and kisses
4:16:25oh yeah she'd always like asked me like
4:16:26you know what was going on like she said
4:16:27was always hard to read she never she
4:16:29never knew what was going on but did she
4:16:31still try and give you affection when
4:16:33growing up yeah she was she always my
4:16:36sister sister was always a parent like
4:16:39it was always like what was going on she
4:16:40always just like she's always open with
4:16:42me it was always just you know both
4:16:44off and she always wanted to know what
4:16:47was going on like how I felt I just like
4:16:49no okay thought to get her even if
4:16:52something even if something was wrong
4:16:54like I would have probably never said
4:16:55anything CU like I just don't with with
4:16:58myself but I don't know that just
4:17:01growing up that way just kept me in that
4:17:04way deal with things on your but then
4:17:07build up so much that you can't deal
4:17:09with them and they take them take a hold
4:17:11of you you never thought in a way could
4:17:14take hold of
4:17:15you do you think that as a result of
4:17:17just bottling up for so
4:17:22long what do you remember your dad
4:17:24saying and
4:17:27sentencing I
4:17:29remember there was a scripture it was
4:17:31one John 1 b
4:17:34n and then like a lot of it the other
4:17:37their representative said for him my mom
4:17:41said a lot my mom spoke but everything
4:17:44my dad had written down to the person
4:17:47said but know there he always was
4:17:50talking about going little game and
4:17:53races and stuff like
4:17:55that going to being my coach and
4:17:58everything like that soing that you know
4:18:00I can experience the same type of Joy
4:18:02doing that for my
4:18:05girls I read mom saying she loves you
4:18:08and she always well no it's pretty
4:18:11important to hear good good then she
4:18:13said I forgive you son yeah that was big
4:18:16right yeah Dad when we came here today
4:18:20we were just hoping and praying that we
4:18:23would take your dad but remember what
4:18:25said I hope you get a chance to talk
4:18:27talk about it okay okay I think that's
4:18:29what today was don't
4:18:31you yeah I think you one those didn't
4:18:33expected to be
4:18:35today
4:18:38so da made some comments during that
4:18:39sentencing hearing
4:18:41about your emotions and having no
4:18:43emotions very remember all that yeah
4:18:46just like you know he lied to us from
4:18:48the start and a couple other things I
4:18:51believe that's what he was saying what
4:18:53do you think do you think he was
4:18:56anywhere close to what do you think of
4:18:58what basically what is your opinion of
4:19:00what he
4:19:01said I mean it's it's going to be you
4:19:04know taking all his evidence and put the
4:19:07story that he that he wanted to convey
4:19:09and like if you don't know me that's
4:19:12where you're going to that's where
4:19:13you're going to portray me like if you
4:19:14take
4:19:16everything from August 13th to now like
4:19:19that's how people are going to know
4:19:20that's how people there go other way
4:19:23people are going to opinionate
4:19:24themselves about me just by what they
4:19:27see right there right they're going to
4:19:28say okay they look at the guy that did
4:19:32that did the interviews on the 14th and
4:19:34they see okay that I guess should be
4:19:36like you know on his hands and knees
4:19:38like crying his eyes out and what's he
4:19:39doing he's just like you know he's just
4:19:41talking and they're just
4:19:43like and I
4:19:45know and maybe got some information
4:19:48maybe from like her friend saying that
4:19:50he was cheating on her or something like
4:19:51that he's a cold person he was you know
4:19:53trying to do this and that like they
4:19:56don't know me they're that's always
4:19:58going to be their opion about me because
4:20:00there's one church service the only one
4:20:02I've family gone to in here and uh said
4:20:04do not Define him by one moment in your
4:20:07life and I think that's like people are
4:20:10defining Me by One One Moment In My Life
4:20:12they don't know like what happened
4:20:14before what can happen
4:20:16later I just hope that you
4:20:18know maybe hopefully one day people can
4:20:21start stop judging
4:20:22everybody there's tons of people in here
4:20:24that you know I don't even want to know
4:20:26what they did because I don't want to
4:20:27judge them like you know like I'm not
4:20:29that person like you know they know what
4:20:31I did I'm not going to ask them what
4:20:32they did you
4:20:35know makes sense you did show some
4:20:39emotion during that
4:20:41hearing um what part do you think you
4:20:44felt most
4:20:47emotional I felt when Frank was talking
4:20:50about you
4:20:52know when
4:20:54he I didn't know what what to expect
4:20:56when he first start talking but you know
4:20:58he instead of the evil monster that that
4:21:02that rang in me and he's said I toss him
4:21:04away like garbage and that hurt
4:21:07and you know when s was talking about
4:21:09that
4:21:11video about was calling me your hero and
4:21:15that that triggered it a lot there
4:21:18Frankie was saying know like I'll never
4:21:21be called on again but you'll never be
4:21:22called a dad
4:21:25again that really
4:21:27stump but you
4:21:31know when my parents got up there just
4:21:34like was hearing my mom and dad talk you
4:21:36know just like like they really couldn't
4:21:37look at me that they really couldn't
4:21:38look at me but I'm just still like you
4:21:41know everything they
4:21:44said they forgive me and that you know
4:21:47I'm still their
4:21:48son no matter what
4:21:51y it was I know like even know my
4:21:55attorneys told me like you need to show
4:21:56a little more emotion because I guess
4:21:58they first time I went to the courtroom
4:22:00I didn't know I didn't know what to
4:22:01expect I'm still
4:22:05like knew to everything just in shock
4:22:07about what was going on and they said I
4:22:10was just a cold person just looking at
4:22:15it when I was when I did The Plea and at
4:22:18the heing it just all all that felt was
4:22:21more real than
4:22:31anything I remember growing up my pastor
4:22:33used to tell
4:22:34me it's better better to be one foot out
4:22:38of hell facing Heaven than one foot out
4:22:40of Heaven facing hell MH so I think
4:22:43that's You Been to Hell and now you're
4:22:46facing the right direction def I
4:22:48definitely feel like it's I never knew I
4:22:51I could have a relationship like I do
4:22:52now but I just that's like the Amazing
4:22:55Grace with all of this but I just wish
4:22:56nobody had to pay any kind of price for
4:22:59this I know there's a purpose for
4:23:01everybody I just just hope that I can
4:23:04get find m yeah seeking peace right
4:23:08that's
4:23:09good the only thing you really can do
4:23:11right now is to seek peace and we hope
4:23:13pray that everybody can find it
4:23:16too for everybody that was involved t
4:23:19for all of you just all your team and
4:23:24everybody friends anybody that
4:23:31would what do you want to happen with
4:23:32this
4:23:35information
4:23:37I mean I know you're probably going to
4:23:39tell uh Frank Sandy and Frank you just
4:23:41kind of give them a little closure right
4:23:44yeah I don't know how much I'm going to
4:23:46tell them obviously you know Sandy
4:23:48better than I she wants to know
4:23:50everything um but um I'm G to digest a
4:23:53little bit before I talk to him about it
4:23:56I don't think there's any Rush on there
4:23:59and U but other than that I have no
4:24:01intention of talking to anybody outside
4:24:04of law enforc but
4:24:08U what would you like to see happen with
4:24:10it I mean I mean I'd like to tell my
4:24:13parents you know when they get here
4:24:15instead of like finding out anywhere
4:24:17else
4:24:20yep I know like they've they've been
4:24:22bombarded with information from like you
4:24:25know from the the Amanda girl to the
4:24:28Trent guy to like people going on inside
4:24:32aition saying they knew me or went out
4:24:34with me or had like whatever else would
4:24:35make
4:24:37and then like I don't I don't want them
4:24:39to think that it's like other like false
4:24:41information going out there cuz like
4:24:43people are getting whole information
4:24:44like where did they get this information
4:24:45from type deal would you like to see
4:24:48those people
4:24:51charged know people people take
4:24:53advantage of situations and you know
4:24:56they got to honestly they have to look
4:24:58into themselves and just figure out why
4:25:00they did it themselves so I mean I don't
4:25:03think tarting them would help they just
4:25:06need to work out their work out whatever
4:25:08they got going
4:25:10on within
4:25:12themselves I mean if did you ever have a
4:25:15profile on Tinder or anything like that
4:25:17any of those
4:25:18dating websites or
4:25:22anything I just have Facebook
4:25:31Instagram I didn't even know what the
4:25:33what St thing was called that's I was
4:25:36like John you never heard of that no I
4:25:38was like I don't even know what that is
4:25:40it's gu's fishing for
4:25:43something sorry you had to waste your
4:25:45time go out there and talk to him it was
4:25:48a big time waste was a big waste of time
4:25:53yeah but you would not want to be listed
4:25:55as a victim in that case as far as him
4:25:58being charged with like false reporting
4:26:00I mean it's he's whoever's GNA try to
4:26:06get their five minutes 15 minutes F
4:26:08whatever they want to do with this I
4:26:09mean that's that's on them I mean if
4:26:12he's will do that
4:26:15then just he needs he needs to figure
4:26:18out what's going on with himself before
4:26:20like you I I don't think charting
4:26:22something's going to fix that so it just
4:26:24be a waste of time I
4:26:33think anything else before we
4:26:37way
4:26:39um be afraid to
4:26:42ask how things in Colorado now I mean
4:26:45since all this everything's quiet now
4:26:48everything's yeah we had another guy
4:26:51murder his um beyon girlfriend whatever
4:26:56you that's me the weather I'm sure
4:26:58you've probably seen that on news no
4:27:00everything here's
4:27:03B one I think though I think here was
4:27:05like Jamie CLA thing love to hear about
4:27:09oh yes we were just talking about that
4:27:10out front but the girl was kidnapped
4:27:13yeah shed that for like 0
4:27:16days he'll probably come here they said
4:27:20he's in some county tril is
4:27:27right yeah so all i s was like stuff I
4:27:31trying to it's like everything happened
4:27:32here
4:27:33so you guys stay night there
4:27:41sorry definitely yeah you mind if I take
4:27:44a picture of you just to show what you
4:27:46look like now you just look so different
4:27:48then I just you know like it's not going
4:27:50to go on social media or anything it's
4:27:51just for like our own record okay is
4:27:53that okay that's
4:27:58fine were you ask me him something sorry
4:28:01I was just gonna say it's like the the
4:28:03roads in the background is verying up
4:28:04you know I know
4:28:06when it's snowing it's
4:28:14horrendous baby ice bracing actually of
4:28:17ice BRAC yeah we had spikes on the tire
4:28:19then
4:28:21so all right Chris want you get back to
4:28:25your want finish your drink yes he let
4:28:28me take that
4:28:34back I had to shave it they recommended
4:28:36I Chang my appearance at the RDC
4:28:39so why is that just so people didn't
4:28:42recognize you
4:28:47oh yeah I just shaved it all out that
4:28:51razor I can set the razor they have here
4:28:53it's like a it's a single blade but like
4:28:56I'm like a safety razor right oh it's
4:28:58more than said that's like it's more
4:29:00safety than actually a razor that's why
4:29:02I doesn't
4:29:04shade
4:29:06like a sharp
4:29:08Rock just imagine shaving the same spot
4:29:11for like five minutes and then finally
4:29:14something starts going starts warm it up
4:29:17or something I don't know you prob
4:29:18better just bling them out or
4:29:24something everything here's for safety
4:29:26so like yeah I think like once I get
4:29:28with the GP I can have something oh that
4:29:31makes
4:29:32sense most the guys he can't have haers
4:29:35so
4:29:36well it makes you feel better probably
4:29:38watch me other guys they stand out they
4:29:40stand next to them while they shave that
4:29:42would think kind of weird oh so they
4:29:45have any other jobs like if uh like
4:29:48Fleet would you be able to go work Fleet
4:29:49Maintenance or anything like that like a
4:29:52minimum uh or like a like a low like a
4:29:55low medium they have guys that like run
4:29:57across the street to like a Records
4:29:59building I work over
4:30:02there I don't know like you know they
4:30:04said it takes a while get classed down
4:30:06from like maximum to medium yeah
4:30:09it's I'm not sure like if
4:30:12they I don't know if they take that to
4:30:14Colorado or what they're
4:30:18be I'm not sure if that
4:30:21happens yeah that's all pretty secretive
4:30:24and right up to the minute they do
4:30:30it
4:30:34definitely you guys do exploring around
4:30:37here I think so everything's covered in
4:30:40snow it's freezing there such wimse when
4:30:43we walk
4:30:45down
4:30:51snow baseball season but it's not
4:30:55so play or something NASCAR is back in
4:30:58full
4:31:00strong I saw the laps last two laps last
4:31:03night when we came out oh
4:31:06I went to over like 200 naar races yeah
4:31:09I went to one day
4:31:11500 it was one that Mark Martin almost
4:31:13won I was hoping he would but got passed
4:31:16by Kevin Harley com out of turn four
4:31:18I yeah yeah it was a r fest I heard so
4:31:24yeah so I I talk either but you went to
4:31:26NASCAR school didn't you yeah that was
4:31:30fun that was blast yeah it was like my
4:31:33childhood just Rel living all over again
4:31:35right
4:31:36seeing race cars on dinos and get
4:31:38fabrication welding all that kind of
4:31:40stuff was really
4:31:42cool not sure that school still over
4:31:44there or not but
4:31:52guess the bfp escorted back is that what
4:31:55they do yes yeah like you man we all
4:31:57have to have es course because this a
4:31:59special man again for guard escort to
4:32:02everywh yeah so what about when you're
4:32:04all playing basketball together the
4:32:05guards watching
4:32:07you there's three of them in there you
4:32:09ever getting fights playing best today
4:32:11no we're just you know I mean we're you
4:32:13know guarding each other like blocking
4:32:15everything like that but
4:32:16everybody's with each other
4:32:25good
4:32:34there
4:32:37you fly back tonight or tomorrow
4:32:43yeah could have FL back tonight I guess
4:32:47but I don't know what time you have F or
4:32:51even only time went to school there
4:32:54so but I had never visited him when he
4:32:57Liv there so that's my first time
4:32:59driving through yesterday it's a cute
4:33:02little town actually this town's cute
4:33:04honestly like the down
4:33:06it's a pretty cute Le it's just so
4:33:09desolate CU it's so cold right now think
4:33:12it was like a couple weeks ago like
4:33:14negative 50 with windchill
4:33:16here and they said like it the PSU
4:33:19counselors I talked to she said it hurt
4:33:21to walk in and
4:33:23Bre yeah they were saying like on the
4:33:25news like for people in like Chicago and
4:33:27all those places not to take deep
4:33:29breaths so it's like freezing their
4:33:32lungs was say like cold from Canada that
4:33:36came through here that just like it
4:33:37froze everything I mean it was like it
4:33:39was so cold in ourselves we were just
4:33:40like going out to eat we were like
4:33:43shaking like heat couldn't keep up with
4:33:46not much he do plus this place is old so
4:33:49like all the windows like
4:33:51were they could insulate it yeah the
4:33:54wind was just
4:33:55like
4:33:57rushed would you st here if you could I
4:34:00don't really know much about state or
4:34:01anything about what's going on in here
4:34:03but like from what I see it's I mean
4:34:05they say it's decent yeah they said it's
4:34:08a lot better than going anywhere else
4:34:10yeah that's generally the word is you
4:34:12hear it's not as bad at other places
4:34:13that means it's pretty good yeah so like
4:34:16I'm just just hoping and praying that I
4:34:17can help people here and that just keep
4:34:19me around mayble to make me like a
4:34:20personal care worker or something help
4:34:23other inmates Mentor I guess they have a
4:34:25couple guys that are certain life S turn
4:34:28into personal care workers with
4:34:29counselors help other guys when they
4:34:31come in where I can do
4:34:34that
4:34:36they don't have like the normal programs
4:34:38you would have but
4:34:41not like some guys like try to they want
4:34:44to get like extra degrees and stuff like
4:34:46that they don't have that here you have
4:34:47to go to one of the other
4:34:53places so if you just said I want you
4:34:55know do some more education and stuff
4:34:57would you get moved to another place or
4:34:59totally up to them whether you totally
4:35:02up because like I'm not sure how that
4:35:04gets paid for
4:35:07right like I'll just whatever they want
4:35:10me to do I what
4:35:14do they back to Colorado I'll be like
4:35:17why why don't go back to Colorado oh if
4:35:20they told you that you would question
4:35:22that oh like after if I was here for a
4:35:24long time and then say okay since you
4:35:26leveled down then mov you back like like
4:35:29what
4:35:31but know that will
4:35:34go are you scared to level down though
4:35:37no I mean it take it take years for that
4:35:39to happen but like I don't know I don't
4:35:42know how it would be like in Colorado
4:35:43and a doc
4:35:46there a PSU counselor she worked Doc in
4:35:49Colorado and California she said
4:35:51Colorado looks like California now
4:35:53really says she said bad I'll beginning
4:35:58violence see that
4:36:02yeah changing
4:36:08yeah I think people up part of the
4:36:09country are just different overall
4:36:13really we kind of talked about that
4:36:16earlier not used to
4:36:19be be
4:36:22nice think a lot of transplants probably
4:36:24moving in Colorado from other states and
4:36:27probably know Dave cologne he said they
4:36:30moving to Florida just to get away from
4:36:31Colorado it's they
4:36:34changed
4:36:36you're so
4:36:40expensive houses just keep going up and
4:36:43up before any kind of like a half an
4:36:45acre of land who's going to pay s l
4:36:50money here I think it's a lot cheaper
4:36:53but it pays a lot it's much lower I
4:36:56think
4:36:56too yeah I was doing a little reading on
4:36:59the area and the median house price
4:37:01appears like
4:37:04116,000 you can't even buy a mailbox
4:37:06call out
4:37:08for box right
4:37:10there want a PO Box call out
4:37:16100 think I was reading like Pittsburgh
4:37:19kind of like the same
4:37:20way it's like crazy to think about how
4:37:23much it varies from like state to state
4:37:25city to City pitsburgh expensive no like
4:37:29oh inexpensive yes it's like 150,000 per
4:37:33house jeez
4:37:36but know deal with the weather and deal
4:37:38with all that Stu y yeah there's a
4:37:41reason for that
4:37:42right like here I guess you got like
4:37:44April to September that's your only good
4:37:47months here the rest of the time you're
4:37:48in your
4:37:49house yeah I don't
4:37:52think but she have snow girls I wouldn't
4:37:55even like
4:37:58that s for necessity problem to get to
4:38:02the store the license plate
4:38:07kind of walk around title town all the
4:38:10time
4:38:14mhm are they coming or yeah they just
4:38:17had they just literally walked away with
4:38:19another person oh they got to get to the
4:38:22end of the wh and come back this place
4:38:24is huge it's a long
4:38:27hallway so how far is your pot or
4:38:30wherever you're staying from here all
4:38:31way down that all the other way think
4:38:34this is like the west side of the
4:38:36building
4:38:37here I haven't gone much farther than
4:38:39this like all my stuff all on the east
4:38:41side but they got like they got huge
4:38:44like pods have like forun guys in them
4:38:47so but they move like 40 or 50 people
4:38:49out each day you have a cellmate right
4:38:52you don't have a
4:38:53cellmate nope go to GP I will have one
4:38:58most of the cells of my unit are single
4:39:00cell there's like three that are doubled
4:39:01up but there's they don't have the
4:39:03overcrowding
4:39:05that issue they had when I first got
4:39:06here that's what she was saying there
4:39:08was like 400 extra inmates that they
4:39:11ended up shipping out to different
4:39:13places
4:39:14so yeah I never knew what the what the
4:39:17definite part of it was as far as like
4:39:19how how many people they had come in out
4:39:21but it was like a yeah people coming in
4:39:23out
4:39:29everywhere so is it like a general
4:39:32supervision type thing like will county
4:39:33is got a there like a big room with the
4:39:36pods on the top or how is that no it's
4:39:38like you have a sergeant desk at the
4:39:40front of it and then a hallway of like
4:39:4220 cells oh okay they just kind of walk
4:39:44back and forth It's the RDC was like you
4:39:47have like like a c sack of cells three
4:39:50tiers and then like the the perch for
4:39:52the sergeant right here he can see and
4:39:54everybody s just from looking around
4:39:56right but this one's like they got to
4:39:58walk up and down this used to be like a
4:39:59mental
4:40:01H back in the day it's definitely old
4:40:05you can you can hear those pipes like
4:40:07vibrating around the walls and just like
4:40:09oh God don't
4:40:12bust is it like exceptionally freezing
4:40:15in
4:40:16here yes heck
4:40:19it's depend for the wind blowing depends
4:40:21on which side I put though it get
4:40:25cold it it's it gets
4:40:29cold was like a six foot snow drip
4:40:32outside my window for a little while
4:40:33it's finally St to go down some was like
4:40:4550 yeah that's a little too gold for
4:40:51me I me we're the ones I chose to come
4:40:53in February
4:40:56but he's ready for you
4:41:00now good guys it's take care yourself
4:41:05thank
4:41:05you thank
4:41:10you

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