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High Performance House Tour: A Living Building Challenge Case Study — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:08welcome to the bs and beer show
0:10um this is the first show in 2021 so you
0:12guys get to
0:14set the bar for 2021. um tonight's topic
0:17is burback at beacon springs
0:19um i'm emily matrum for those of you who
0:21don't know go back and watch the video
0:23we posted
0:24last year i'm kidding um i'm an
0:27architect here in maine um tonight i am
0:29actually drinking
0:30tea made by mike's fantastic wife
0:33so having some hot tea here tonight um
0:36we want to encourage other local groups
0:38to start your own bs and beer groups
0:40this was
0:41started fundamentally when our local
0:43group couldn't meet in person
0:44anymore so we want to encourage you to
0:46get together with your local groups when
0:48you can when it's safe to do so
0:50but there are several groups who have
0:52started their own online versions
0:55and if you're in an area and you're not
0:56sure if there's a group reach out to one
0:58of us the only thing
0:59that we ask because if you start your
1:00own group don't trademark the name
1:03otherwise we want to thank our media
1:06partners green building advisor
1:07and fine home building for helping us
1:09put this show on and all of our
1:11fantastic guests who join us
1:13every week or show up and watch the
1:15replay so
1:17thank you for joining us today and it's
1:19off to you kylie
1:22thank you emily hello everybody i'm
1:24kylie jacques i'm a senior editor at
1:26green building advisor
1:27i'm drinking peach tea tonight seem like
1:29the right thing
1:30um we've decided to not belabor the
1:33point on zoom i think everybody's pretty
1:35much got it at this point but if you'd
1:36like to engage
1:37do so in the chat box and just be sure
1:39to click on all attendees so we can see
1:43what you're contributing or asking
1:46find homebuilding sends out reminders
1:48every week about the show
1:50and if you'd like more information
1:51delivered to your inbox
1:53you can join the join the mailing list
1:55at thebsnbeershow.com
1:57or check out the weekly blog post that i
2:00put together at gba
2:02tonight's show we're going to have an
2:04interactive is the word that michael
2:05used to describe it and i'm looking
2:06forward to seeing what that means
2:08exactly uh presentation by architect
2:11michael clement uh followed by a panel
2:13discussion and then we'll take some
2:15questions from the audience
2:16we'll wrap up at 7 30. uh the video
2:19recording of tonight's show will be
2:20available at green building advisor and
2:22we encourage you to hop over there and
2:24continue the conversation
2:26um and then we've also launched launched
2:28an audio only version
2:30of the show and that is available
2:33wherever
2:33podcasts are found couple of
2:35announcements on january 26th
2:38from 6 to 8 pm the
2:42new york chapter of aia will be hosting
2:44a webcast featuring four video
2:46conversations between
2:47designers and home builders who have
2:49completed lead for home
2:51and or passive house projects and it
2:53will be followed by a roundtable
2:55discussion moderated by
2:56uh zach semkay i'm not sure how to
2:59pronounce this and that's the last name
3:00i apologize uh
3:02of house pass a house accelerator
3:05and on february 2nd through the 4th
3:08efficiency vermont will hold its annual
3:10conference
3:12better buildings by design emily and
3:14mike are both presenting there this year
3:16uh and then and the theme will be a
3:18resilient energy
3:20and that's all i've got mike you're
3:22going to introduce our guests
3:24yes it's my honor to introduce our
3:25guests tonight uh
3:27first we have michael clement he is the
3:29principal of architectural resource llc
3:33a full-service award-winning
3:34architectural design firm specializing
3:37exclusively in fine residential design
3:39of new homes
3:40cottages additions remodels and
3:43renovations with an emphasis on smart
3:45sustainable design
3:47their expertise ranges from historically
3:49sensitive to hyper contemporary to deep
3:52green to net zero energy and everything
3:54in between
3:55michael do you have anything to add to
3:58that and most importantly what are you
3:59drinking tonight
4:01yeah well i noticed someone commented
4:04about the bow tie so
4:05uh i i had it's it's a signature piece
4:09kylie was looking forward to it i didn't
4:10want to disappoint her so i'm excited to
4:12be here
4:13it's actually a thrill to be part of the
4:15bsn bear show you guys are making a
4:17big impact on our industry and we really
4:19appreciate that
4:21and it's exciting for us to be able to
4:22share with you the burbeck and beacon
4:23springs project
4:25i am drinking water
4:28i knew it i knew you were that i'll
4:31leave it up to you
4:32to decide whether it's rain water
4:35or not we'll come back to that
4:38conversation at some point
4:40in the evening excellent thank you
4:44i actually forgot to mention what i'm
4:45drinking i'm drinking a cushnox
4:48kushnak brewing gigantic dad pants ipa
4:51in new england style ipa brewed here in
4:53augusta maine
4:55our next guest is amanda webb she is a
4:58registered architect and sustainability
5:00consultant who has built her career
5:02around building and development
5:04practices that save resources
5:06reduce operating costs and increase
5:08occupant well-being
5:10and result in healthy internal
5:12environments and the preservation of
5:14external environments
5:15she provides guidance and leadership to
5:17team members across
5:18all disciplines amanda do you have
5:20anything to add
5:21and do you have a beverage tonight um i
5:24do have a beverage
5:25on the the theme it seemed i have hot
5:28tea
5:29um chamomile tonight for me
5:32um and nothing to add really other than
5:35just my appreciation for
5:37you all hosting us and um sharing this
5:40project with
5:40others or great thanks
5:46for joining us tonight i do stutter
5:49i'll hopefully loosen up a little here
5:52last but certainly not least
5:54everybody knows that projects don't
5:55happen without a builder
5:57bob burnside founded fireside home
6:00construction in 1996
6:03building and remodeling custom homes
6:04with a focus on green building from the
6:06start
6:07in addition to the project we're
6:09discussing tonight fireside built
6:10michigan's first
6:12leed platinum home and they were named
6:14one of the top three builders in the
6:16country by custom home magazine
6:19bob has a bs in marketing and an mba so
6:22he's a well-educated builder
6:24uh bob what do you have to add and and
6:26do you have a beverage tonight
6:28well i have a little diet coke here from
6:30the highway which i know i shouldn't be
6:32drinking
6:33but there's stressful driving on i-4 in
6:35florida but i'm here and as soon as
6:36we're done with the stress of this
6:38conversation
6:39it'll be woodford reserve all right good
6:42choice
6:42nice choice i'm saving a little cocktail
6:45and
6:46dinner for later a pleasure be with you
6:49all and i just can't say
6:51what a thrill it was to be part of this
6:52whole project uh very difficult and
6:55challenging along the way
6:56but most of all it's it's really been a
6:59feather in our cap
7:01i know michael agrees with that and
7:02amanda but best of all
7:05become very dear close friends with the
7:07owners tom and marty so
7:09it's been a win-win all the way and i'm
7:10happy to join you tonight
7:14thanks for being with us um
7:18i lost my i lost my notes but uh
7:21uh yeah i guess um or yeah michael do
7:25you want to uh go go ahead and kick kick
7:26things off with your presentation then
7:28give us the overview and then we'll
7:30we'll discuss it
7:31yes absolutely so when kylie reached out
7:35to
7:35me and said hey we we'd like to do
7:37something on burbank at beacon springs
7:40i thought excellent but this if there
7:42was ever a project
7:44that took a village to complete
7:47this was it and i was mentioning
7:50to kylie emily and mike before the show
7:53started
7:54the amanda and bob the contribution
7:58that they made this this absolutely
8:02could not have happened without the
8:03synergy between these three
8:06these other two key people amanda
8:09represented
8:10our living building challenge ambassador
8:12and she was responsible for doing
8:14all of the vetting of the red list
8:18and we're going to talk more about that
8:19in this presentation
8:21bob obviously had to take all the crazy
8:24lines and numbers that we put on paper
8:25and turn it into something that was
8:27tangible and real
8:28and as bob said and i think he said uh
8:31when we were in the preamble to this
8:33uh living building challenge is aptly
8:35named because
8:36this was a challenge for sure i mean
8:39there's there's
8:39very likely a reason that as far as i
8:41know there's only two certified
8:43residences on the planet that have met
8:45this certification goal
8:47it is literally the outside extreme
8:50edges of the known green universe
8:53we blazed trails that we didn't even
8:54know there were trails and
8:56it's going to be exciting tonight to
8:57give you an overview so what we wanted
8:59to do
9:00in this first part of the evening
9:03together is give you a little synopsis
9:06about the project and talk about some of
9:08the motivations behind
9:09it and then we'll we'll circle back and
9:11answer questions from the panelists and
9:14the attendees so i'm going to try to
9:17fire up a
9:18powerpoint presentation here
9:21all right so uh burbeck at beacon
9:24springs
9:26interesting name the client's names are
9:28tom and marty burback
9:30uh interesting enough b-u-r-b-e-c-k
9:35and when we were starting the project we
9:38were thinking like we we need to have a
9:40name right any
9:41any significant project needs to have
9:43its own identity
9:44and so they spent some time thinking
9:46about it and they came up with this name
9:48burbeck at beacon springs which
9:50apparently in old english
9:52and i don't know so they can tell me
9:54anything and i would believe it
9:56but it means dwelling by a creek and as
9:58it turns out there is a small seasonal
10:00creek on the property
10:02and the idea of beacon springs was they
10:05they really and we're going to share
10:06some of the sentiments that the clients
10:08shared with us that they really wanted
10:11this to be something
10:12very very special they wanted this
10:14project to be
10:15a harbinger of new thought
10:19and kind of an epicenter of an
10:22opportunity for people to
10:23learn about what might be possible
10:28so early on in the program it's funny uh
10:31this will teach you to get an architect
10:33involved
10:33i was meeting with tom and marty about
10:36remodeling their house
10:37next thing you know we're building a
10:41brand new living building challenge
10:42project
10:44and we were talking about green and
10:46certification programs because tom and
10:47marty are
10:49uh they're rabble rousers they're you
10:50know surfer hippies i mean
10:53they were very successful in their
10:54business but they came from a very
10:56uh um kind of troublemaking
11:00shaking it up challenge the status quo
11:03background
11:04and we were talking about certification
11:05programs and
11:07i mentioned to them that there was this
11:09relatively new program called living
11:11building challenge and i had just
11:13learned about it
11:14this was back in i think 2012 when
11:16everything got started
11:18and so they did some research on it
11:21and i'll remember distinctly being in
11:24the basement of bob's
11:25home when we were having a charrette
11:28because we were already anticipating
11:29going for lead
11:30certification and bob
11:34i'm sure you remember amanda i'm sure
11:36you remember too tom stood up
11:38and literally threw the virtual gauntlet
11:41and said
11:42we're going for living building
11:43challenge or nothing
11:46and by that declaration he put in place
11:48the machinery the wheels
11:50that carried us through the next several
11:52years of process
11:53and it was really quite a challenging
11:56project and you might want to ask well
11:58why would someone want to do a living
11:59building challenge project
12:01and these are some of the things that
12:03influence them
12:04so you may be familiar with this image
12:06earthrise
12:08that's when the astronauts first went
12:09around the far side of the moon and came
12:11back and
12:12if they were to take that same trip
12:13today they would see a planet
12:15that had 40 percent less ice when they
12:18came around that back side of the moon
12:21i remember early on in the whole green
12:24movement
12:24back in 2006 time magazine
12:28suggesting that we might be concerned
12:30about uh global climate change well
12:32since then
12:33we all know what's unfolded one of the
12:36metrics of that is the what they call
12:38the sea ice extent
12:39at the pole and we're looking at the
12:421984 we look to september
12:44as the kind of the area that it recedes
12:47the most
12:48that's september 1984 this is september
12:512020
12:52and the opacity that you see is also
12:55showing the density of the ice pack so
12:57not only is it
12:57shrinking but its density is reducing as
13:00well
13:01it uh it shocked me to learn that by
13:042030 they're projecting the glacier
13:06national park will actually be
13:08glacier-free
13:10we're looking at the work done by james
13:13hansen which
13:14probably many of the viewers are
13:15familiar with some may not be
13:17but he was studying venus's atmosphere
13:19and he took that
13:20same knowledge and understanding and he
13:23looked at
13:24the earth's atmosphere and he
13:26established that
13:28350 parts per million of carbon dioxide
13:30in the atmosphere was the threshold
13:31beyond which we should not go
13:34so what's been happening is we've been
13:35tapping into what we call ancient
13:37sunlight and i love that description
13:38because
13:39oil represents 11 years of manual labor
13:42and we've been able to do a lot of
13:43amazing things
13:45using this incredible resource but we've
13:48generated this
13:49what we're going to know as the
13:50hydrocarbon age
13:52and what we're looking at is a rapid
13:54acceleration
13:56of parts per million of carbon dioxide
13:57in the atmosphere i just checked before
14:00this presentation and as of november of
14:032020 we are now at 413 parts per million
14:07the last time that we were above 400
14:09parts per million
14:10humans didn't exist
14:14let's take a look at a broader picture
14:16of water
14:18because the living building challenge
14:20program moves beyond the energy
14:21conversation and looks at many things
14:23and we're going to discuss that
14:25so we understand that upwards of
14:27three-fourths of the water consumption
14:29in the u.s is due
14:31to the residential sector so here's a
14:33kind of a pop quiz
14:35for all the participants in this event
14:37true or false
14:38water is the world's most abundant
14:40natural resource
14:43well the answer it's kind of a trick
14:44question
14:46um yes and no the water that we have on
14:50the planet
14:52only two and a half percent of that is
14:53fresh water
14:55and of that two and a half percent
14:57roughly 70 percent
14:58is currently locked in glaciers and
15:00we're doing our level best to
15:02change that 30 in groundwater and 0.3
15:05percent
15:05lakes and rivers so what does that mean
15:08so we may consider the planet as being
15:12abundant source of water but if you took
15:15all that water which is a very very very
15:17thin
15:18layer and if you compressed it into a
15:20sphere
15:21that larger sphere you see would be
15:24all of the water on the planet salt
15:28water fresh water
15:29everything i'm going to go to a little
15:32different graphic here so you can see it
15:33a little bit better
15:35that smaller sphere is all of the liquid
15:38fresh water the third sphere which is
15:42that little teeny dot
15:44is the fresh water that's available in
15:46lakes and streams and so here's it
15:48shown in yellow so you really get a
15:49sense when you see the planet you get
15:52this sense of this a mass
15:54vast amount of water it really is very
15:57limited amounts of water
15:59and that water is not being managed very
16:01properly so this is a picture of
16:03hoover dam back when it was first
16:06created
16:08hoover dam and lake mead lake powell
16:10generate
16:11a 20 million water supply
16:15for people in the southwest usa
16:18this is what it looks like today
16:21what we're looking at is the changes
16:24that we've been creating
16:26is leading to a incredible change
16:30in terms of water in our aquifers
16:34the ogallala aquifer which is what was
16:37harvested to
16:38combat the dust bowls in the early part
16:40of the century
16:42have been declining until we are now
16:45predicting and you've probably noticed
16:46we've been having
16:47dust storms in the southwest
16:50so the reason we're sharing this is to
16:53let you understand that
16:55we are looking at doing something much
16:56broader with a living building challenge
16:58project than
16:59simply being focused on energy energy is
17:02important but not
17:03the only thing the other thing we're
17:05looking at is waste
17:07as we say the ocean is downhill from
17:09everything
17:10and i'm sure you're familiar with what
17:12is called the now the eighth continent
17:14the north pacific geyer
17:16where it's on average 30 meters thick of
17:20plastic junk
17:22the rate of extinction 58 decline
17:25all all natural living systems on this
17:29planet
17:29are in rapid decline the amount of trash
17:33and waste that we generate in the
17:35building industry
17:3730 to 35 percent of our landfill is
17:39construction debris
17:41so we're having a huge impact the indoor
17:44environmental quality in our homes two
17:46to five and on occasion 100 times higher
17:49in
17:50pollutants than outside air in one third
17:52of our buildings being toxic or
17:54deficient in ventilation
17:56so the reason we're sharing all this
17:58with you is to help to set the stage for
18:01why we would consider
18:02pursuing living building challenge
18:05and yes building science is a piece of
18:07it but it's not the entire piece
18:10so we were certified under the living
18:13building
18:14challenge program 2.1 this was back
18:17in the 2018 when we first certified the
18:20project
18:22what this is is arguably one of the most
18:26rigorous green certification programs on
18:28the planet
18:30living building challenge is first a
18:32philosophy
18:35second in advocacy
18:38and third a building certification
18:41program
18:42the concept is moving beyond
18:45merely bad to actually what does good
18:49look like i mean
18:50all of us on this call are engaged in
18:54doing better
18:56this program says what does really
19:00good look like not merely less versions
19:04of bad i love this chart because it
19:07shows
19:08the trajectory from code to green
19:11to high performance to sustainable
19:14but what living building challenge does
19:16is focuses on that upper quadrant which
19:18is moving into regenerative
19:21where our built form our homes
19:25what we create as an industry
19:28which we up until now pretty much
19:30accepted as transgressions on the
19:32natural environment
19:34are actually catalysts and vehicles for
19:36change
19:37for regenerating a positive environment
19:42so that's what living building challenge
19:43is i mean it's it's so much more than
19:46lead or passive house
19:50or nahb green
19:54or i mean and these are all great
19:55programs and we've done many projects
19:57inside of those programs but this is
19:59something that reaches far
20:00far far beyond that and asked our
20:03clients to really reach into
20:06new ways of thinking so
20:10this is how the living building
20:11challenge program is
20:13established there are seven petals
20:17which are place water energy
20:20health and happiness materials equity
20:23and beauty
20:24and these are subdivided into 20
20:26imperatives
20:28we're going to cycle back to this and
20:29amanda's going to say more about this
20:31when we finish this little brief
20:32overview
20:33but the idea and the reason they use
20:37the flower as its metaphor
20:40is it says basically what if our
20:43buildings were like
20:44a flower what if they were like a plant
20:48a plant uses only the available solar
20:51currency that falls on it it doesn't
20:53reach back into ancient sunlight
20:55through fossil fuels it uses only the
20:58available water that falls inside of its
21:00root zone
21:01it doesn't reach down into ancient
21:02aquifers dinosaur water i've heard some
21:04people refer to it
21:06it doesn't change the the
21:10balance in terms of waste in fact if you
21:12think about waste and we're going to
21:13talk about this
21:14waste is really a human construct
21:16because in nature
21:18everything is becoming something waste
21:22is really a human invention this idea of
21:24cradle to grave
21:25is something that we've created in
21:27nature everything is becoming something
21:29so it really challenges us to rethink
21:31just about everything
21:34so this is the audit report that we
21:37received on the burbeck at beacon
21:39springs farm project
21:41and there again you can see that flower
21:44there's amanda point of contact and
21:47it received its certification on october
21:51of 2017.
21:54we're going to talk a little bit about
21:55some of the specifications but this is
21:58the report card that we had received
22:01and there's certain transects and
22:03different qualifications depending on
22:05where the project is
22:07it asks us to focus on certain things
22:09and not other things
22:11this is an aerial view from the
22:15east northeast of burbeck and beacon
22:18springs
22:19to the left you see the primary dwelling
22:23to the right there's a garage and farm
22:25operations building
22:28the home is i'm sitting on 15 acres
22:32and its total condition space of the
22:34main home is 4970 square feet it's
22:38actual living space is about 2500 but
22:40the whole house the whole
22:42whole everything enclosed is conditioned
22:45and then we also have the conditioned
22:46garage barn
22:47area we're going to go more into this
22:50when we break out into the wall sections
22:52but the r values for the on
22:54the assembly is r30 for the slab
22:57r30 for the basement wall our 48 for the
23:01above grade wall
23:03and our 68 for the roof and ceiling
23:07the air leakage was 0.45
23:11ach 50. we actually generated a resonant
23:15herd score of -10
23:18the eui of this home is 7.1
23:21with the pv it's actually a negative 2.9
23:25this home is generating surplus energy
23:28of roughly 4
23:29000 kwh per year and we're going to talk
23:32about how we've created the systems to
23:34create that type of performance
23:37let's take a look at the aerial view of
23:39the house on the site
23:42so you'll notice the house itself is off
23:44to the bottom and it's canted slightly
23:46facing to the southwest
23:49that was established to show the
23:51particular
23:52orientation that the homeowners wanted
23:54to view
23:55looking into the area to the southwest
23:58of the property
24:00the garage workshop area barn and farm
24:03operation center
24:04is to the north and if you can notice
24:07that's due
24:08east-west solar access that
24:11was where we parked our 16 kw
24:14photovoltaic system which provided all
24:17the power for the house
24:18and including charging an electric
24:20vehicle with enough surplus power
24:22that they could actually charge a
24:24secondary vehicle as well
24:28this is a view aerial view floating
24:30above and you can see the panels there
24:32on the left hand side and one of the
24:34things you'll notice is there's this
24:37kind of intriguing tower we're going to
24:38talk more about the tower because
24:40it was a fairly simple building farm
24:43this is a view from the
24:45southeast looking up towards the
24:47building so the building employed clear
24:49story windows to bring light deep into
24:51the
24:52little too fast deep into the body of
24:54the home
24:55this is a view from the southwest one of
24:57the things that you can see here on the
24:58southwest view
25:00is the amount of glazing to the south
25:04as well as the trom walls t-r-o-m-b-e
25:08walls that we use which are the blue
25:10glazed areas that are in between
25:13the vision glass this is a view from the
25:16northwest looking back towards the home
25:18and you can see that farm operations
25:19building
25:21and then this is a view from the north
25:23northeast
25:26let's take a look at the floor plan
25:30okay this home was right it was
25:32essentially a rectangle
25:3478 feet by 30 feet
25:38we were doing so many crazy things we
25:40didn't have to do a crazy building
25:42plan as well bob had his hands full just
25:44trying to make sure everything was going
25:46to happen
25:47how it was basically organized was there
25:49was a circulation spine along the north
25:52that distributed into the spaces to the
25:54south
25:56one of the challenges of the living
25:58building challenge is that all
25:59spaces need to have access to exterior
26:02views
26:03and so we're going to talk about how we
26:04did that for the kitchen area as well
26:08so this is a view from the inside of the
26:10house looking back towards that
26:12entry tower the entry tower was a part
26:15of the energy management system which
26:17we're going to talk about in a little
26:18bit
26:19it also formed an airlock it's so funny
26:22we do all these fancy
26:24building science things and you know
26:26everything old is new again just simply
26:28having an airlock as a way to control
26:29the environment between inside and
26:31outside
26:31is a strategy that we employ on many
26:34many many homes
26:36the next view is turning down
26:42the hallway if we move from the entry
26:44area let me see if i can annotate on
26:46screen
26:47oh i can great
26:51so we were standing here looking at this
26:54space
26:55and now we're going to be looking down
26:57the hall to the powder bath at the far
27:00northeast
27:01northeast end of the home great
27:05whoops going back
27:08one of the interesting features of you
27:11got to have some technical issues or
27:13it's just not a zoom meeting right
27:16all right one of the interesting
27:18features of this home
27:20is this rusticated wall
27:23tom and marty's aspirations for this
27:25home was although it was replete with
27:27state-of-the-art technology
27:28they wanted to have this little sense of
27:31warmth and comfort
27:33and they selected the the tuscan
27:36motif as the design inspiration for this
27:39home
27:40if you notice the sink base there the
27:42vanity base
27:43that's actually a log that came from tom
27:46and marty's old property
27:48that the homeowner carved out itself and
27:50created as the
27:51as the base for this this um the sink
27:54vessel
27:55many of the things that we're trying to
27:57do is
27:59utilize materials such as recycled
28:01materials
28:03so what we usually talk about
28:06in our approach to energy management is
28:09approaching this from
28:10a three-step approach starting first
28:13looking at conservation
28:16second looking at utilization and last
28:19looking at generation and we invite our
28:21clients
28:22to consider that this is the sequence
28:24that you want to take
28:26it doesn't make any sense to put a bunch
28:27of solar on a house if you're losing a
28:29lot of energy
28:30and it doesn't make any sense to buy
28:32fancy equipment if you're losing a lot
28:34of energy so the basics
28:36that we take is lose as little energy as
28:39you can
28:40use as little as energy as you can and
28:43then make as much
28:44energy as you can and it starts with
28:46conservation
28:47our conservation approach was the
28:49thermal envelope of our 30 slab 30
28:52basement walls 48 above grade walls and
28:5468 roof
28:56we ran this through we were working with
28:59a hers modeler as we were doing the
29:00energy modeling on this
29:01and um we were coming up with the hers
29:03index that kind of caught our attention
29:05it was a minus
29:0511 hers index you guys probably
29:09recognize
29:09recognize this gentleman so we were
29:12spending a lot of time looking very
29:13carefully
29:14at the four control layers water air
29:17vapor and thermal
29:19and what we essentially did is use
29:22joe's perfect wall as the foundation for
29:26our assembly for the wall enclosure
29:30so this is a little uh section cut
29:32through the building
29:34and we're going to zoom in on that now
29:35it's a little fuzzy i apologize for that
29:39so our above are below gray walls was
29:42poured concrete
29:43and then we used rigid board insulation
29:46to the exterior
29:48one of the things that we were wanting
29:50to do is to
29:52mine the thermal bridge that was coming
29:54up from the foundation
29:56we had a productive conversation with
30:00bob our builder
30:01and he was less than excited about
30:03putting insulation under the footing
30:06and so we said fine so we were actually
30:08working with building science
30:09corporation
30:10as consultants on this project cota oeno
30:13my personal hero
30:15and uh what we worked out with coda was
30:17the possibility of bringing
30:19interior insulation up the interior wall
30:23and by doing so lengthening this thermal
30:25bridge and for any of you who have had
30:26passive house training you know that
30:28thermal bridging
30:29there's we can either eliminate them or
30:31we can lengthen them
30:32to to minimize their impact and so we
30:35use that approach
30:37and so now we're setting our footing on
30:39solid bearing and we're bringing the
30:40insulation up the inside
30:43we did use if you notice that exterior
30:45brick veneer
30:46is sitting on a ledge of insulation
30:50so we use insulation that was
30:52specifically
30:53certified to take the veneer weight
30:56because it was literally bearing on the
30:58insulation but by doing that we were
31:00able to create a continuous
31:02thermal envelope up the wall we used
31:06a two by six stud cavity and we use
31:09exterior sheathing as our air control
31:12layer
31:13and then we wrap the house with two
31:15layers of insulation
31:16offset and staggering the seams our roof
31:19assembly
31:20was structural insulated panels
31:24in one section of the house we had a
31:27timber construction and for that area we
31:31had a 12 inch sip
31:34and then a 5 inch nail base on top of it
31:37and then again offset and staggering the
31:38seams and generating our air control
31:40layer at that
31:41location on the other section of the
31:43house we had wood truss assembly and we
31:45used that same exact
31:47technique except we just use nail base
31:50in both cases
31:52we didn't need the strength of the sip
31:55these are details showing the specifics
31:59of those two different
32:00wall assemblies this was kind of an
32:03interesting project because
32:04the clients wanted to use a stucco
32:06finish
32:08to give it the look of a traditional
32:11tuscan home
32:12and so we use the rain screen approach
32:16for both assemblies and i was really
32:17excited because
32:19this this was um before building science
32:22corporation came out with their stucco
32:24getting
32:25building science report and i was really
32:27pleased to see that what we did
32:29which arguably was you know it was a
32:32reach because we were basically
32:34generating a stucco finish on a rain
32:36screen assembly
32:37ventilated and drained so
32:41we put that system together and
32:44us the clients and everyone are going to
32:46sleep real well forever and ever knowing
32:47that we got a ventilated assembly
32:50we also did hydrothermal analysis just
32:52to confirm the performance of the wall
32:54because
32:54we knew that building science was on our
32:56side
32:58and we had good reason to believe was
32:59going to perform but
33:01you know in god we trust all others
33:03bring data as the saying goes
33:05and so we ran that analysis and we were
33:07excited to see how we were turning
33:08towards drying
33:10and then this is the roof assembly again
33:12as we mentioned we had two different
33:14assemblies one over the truss roof area
33:16which is to the left
33:18and the other over the timber frame area
33:19which was to the right
33:21both of these assemblies were
33:22essentially the same
33:25so now we're going to move from that
33:28area
33:29back into the main body of the house
33:32so as we have got the conservation piece
33:35underhand
33:36we now look to generation and we had a
33:39perfect site to take advantage of
33:41passive thermal energy and what we did
33:44is
33:44we put down two and a half inches of
33:47concrete
33:48on top of a wood open open tress
33:51parallel cord truss floor
33:53and that became our our kind of our mass
33:55and glass approach
33:57to this project and what we like to do
34:00is whenever we can hook our wagon to the
34:02sun because the sun doesn't send a bill
34:04right you guys all know that
34:06and so using tuned overhangs and working
34:09with the energy modeling
34:10and nrel's calculations we were able to
34:13tune our overhangs
34:15so that the sun deeply penetrates into
34:17the space
34:18in the winter time and is blocked off in
34:21the summertime
34:23and it's always fun when our clients you
34:25know we always encourage them you know
34:27run out and take a picture of the sun
34:28shadow on june 21
34:30and they're always amazed it's like it
34:31comes down right to the bottom of the
34:33window cells
34:34and i say it's as if it was planned
34:36isn't this exciting
34:39so this is a view and i should also
34:42mention that our four-legged family
34:43members enjoyed that
34:44thermal energy as well um the proof
34:48in the pudding came when we recently
34:49went through what was called the polar
34:52vortex here in the midwest
34:54where we had temperatures as low as
34:56minus 16 degrees this is like
34:58you know i've got buddies up in
34:59minnesota and that's what they're used
35:02to we're not typically used to that
35:04but i'll never forget this tom and marty
35:07they um they sent me this picture
35:09the their set point inside was 68
35:12degrees
35:14it was three degrees outside and
35:17they actually cracked the window because
35:20it was getting a little too warm inside
35:23so while the rest of us were scrambling
35:24to try to stay warm
35:26battening down all the hatches they had
35:28a nice fresh breeze of of
35:30crisp michigan winter air coming in to
35:33their home
35:34so this was like
35:37this is you know why we do this work
35:39team everyone on this
35:41meeting this is why we do this work all
35:44right so now we're heading
35:45so we were in that main space and now
35:48we're going to head over
35:49to marty's study this is one of the
35:52spaces on the side
35:54of the home but before we do that i want
35:58to spend a little time talking about
35:59this tower
36:02so we are very much interested in
36:04passive heating
36:05obviously but we also wanted to
36:07introduce passive cooling
36:09and so this tower uh besides the fact
36:12that every house should have a tower
36:14right i mean who doesn't want a tower
36:16this house this tower was designed as
36:18part of the mechanical system
36:20the floor the the intermediate floors in
36:23the upper level floor was designed as a
36:25great
36:27we worked with the university of
36:30michigan
36:31blue lab at the college of architecture
36:33and engineering
36:35and we had them do hydro pardon me
36:38computational fluid dynamic studies we
36:40we did wind rose studies of the site
36:43and what we established was the optimal
36:45rotation orientation
36:46and height of the tower and how the
36:50tower function was this
36:52when we wanted to naturally ventilate
36:54the home we would open up the windward
36:56windows on the southwest of the home on
36:59all floors
37:01then on the tower we would open up the
37:03windward and the leeward windows
37:06the warm air would be drawn up into the
37:09tower
37:10through natural convection but we also
37:13had the advantage of the wind coming
37:15through the tower at the top
37:17kind of like blowing over the top of a
37:19straw creating a venturi effect
37:22what we learned from this study is that
37:25we were actually getting more cfm
37:27movement through natural means using the
37:30venturi effect
37:32and thermal siphoning than we could with
37:34the mechanical system on full
37:36and this was with no added energy
37:38whatsoever
37:41so now we're going to move over to the
37:43far side of the house
37:45this is the kitchen and what we had
37:47talked about
37:48with the living building challenge was
37:51the necessity for all
37:52interior spaces to have access to
37:54natural light
37:56so what we did with the kitchen sink is
37:58we
37:59positioned it in such a fashion that it
38:02was had a window that looked out the
38:04window beyond
38:06that gave them that access to natural
38:08light
38:09it was fun and it worked out really
38:11really nicely and i
38:12encourage you to borrow that if you're
38:14doing some design work yourself
38:17all the appliances obviously were energy
38:19star
38:20this is an all-electric home uh one of
38:22the usual pushbacks we usually get from
38:25our clients is if we're going to an
38:26induction type cooktop
38:29it's like hey i'm i'm used to cooking
38:31with gas
38:32well we shared with them that it's 80
38:34more efficient than gas
38:36and there's been numerous studies
38:38showing that particulates from gas
38:40ranges are causing significant
38:44compromises to indoor air quality and in
38:47asthma
38:48and there's a great view showing the
38:50view through the window to the window
38:52beyond
38:52and it happens to line up with the
38:54window on the on the garage carport too
38:57it's as if it was planned
39:01moving on here to tom and marty's um far
39:05side of the house this is marty's study
39:08this is a view into the bedroom to the
39:12right-hand side of that
39:13or to the left-hand side of that window
39:16you could see the tron walls and
39:18these are the exterior trom walls
39:21we have three series of them one two
39:24three and three
39:25stacked here these were quite a
39:28challenge to create
39:30these are how we are generating the
39:32passive energy
39:33from the trauma solar collection so how
39:36this works
39:38is the sun energy comes through the
39:40exterior glass
39:42it hits a selective surface that was
39:45mounted to
39:46the exterior face of the mason wall in
39:49this case it was poured concrete
39:51that selective surface it accepts 95
39:55percent of the energy and only lets five
39:57percent of the energy
39:58radiate back out so that heat energy
40:00slowly builds up
40:02in that wall so that when the sun is
40:04down
40:05that heat energy is making its way into
40:07the house
40:08and tom has had some fun with a infrared
40:11thermometer shining it on the wall
40:13and had temperatures upwards of 110
40:16degrees inside the wall
40:17when it's been below zero degrees
40:19outside
40:20and the neat thing about them is there's
40:22no moving parts
40:24we're now going to head over to the far
40:27north west corner of the house
40:30where we have the bathroom and
40:34one of the things about the
40:37project is we wanted to design this in
40:39such a fashion
40:40they could serve them throughout their
40:41lives and so
40:43the shower was designed with a partition
40:46that could be removed
40:47providing roll-across access into the
40:50future so from here
40:52we're going to move down to the lower
40:54level so this is essentially a
40:56walk out ranch we're coming down into
40:58the main space and what we want to talk
41:00a little bit here
41:02is about the water harvesting part of
41:04the living building challenge
41:06imperative is that we are net positive
41:09water
41:10and so this was one of the first
41:12projects that we worked on
41:14that looked at actually collecting rain
41:16water
41:17and using it for potable purposes so we
41:20had three 2500 gallon
41:23cisterns that were buried to the
41:24southwest of the home
41:27these collect roof water that will
41:30provide
41:30three months of water supply when full
41:33the sky was to
41:34shut off the issue we ran
41:37into is the local jurisdiction wouldn't
41:40allow us
41:42to use that water for any type of
41:45domestic purposes except for exterior
41:47irrigation
41:49and so we were joking that tom and
41:52marty's plants were actually drinking
41:54better water than tom and marty were
41:58now we're going to move to the
41:58mechanical systems so this project had a
42:02ground source heat pump geothermal
42:05system
42:06and it was a four ton unit we have
42:09in-floor radiant heating and then we
42:12have
42:13forced air heating for and cooling
42:16for the shoulder seasons and the ground
42:19source heat pump
42:21geothermal system is also providing
42:24makeup hot water
42:25for the hot water system
42:29this the the idea here was to do the
42:32in-floor heat as its primary heating
42:35source
42:36now we have had four seasons now of
42:39them operating the home and as many of
42:42you know when you have in-floor heating
42:44we have issues with the shoulder seasons
42:47that's why we installed the forced air
42:49heating and cooling system
42:50system to take advantage of that
42:53potential
42:53to rapidly change the temperature
42:56now one of the things that was unique
42:58about this project and bob will probably
43:00second this thought is we built a
43:04sub basement so by that i mean
43:07we had the main level the basement and
43:10then we built a basement underneath that
43:13and the reason we did that you can see
43:14it in this drawing
43:16is one of the other imperatives of the
43:18living building challenge
43:20is net zero waste
43:24this was the first project that we have
43:25designed that used a centralized
43:28composting system and because we had
43:31plumbing groups
43:32on the lower level we had to have them
43:35drain
43:35to a lower space and so that's what we
43:38did with this plumbing pit
43:41here is a picture of the plumbing pit
43:43you can see our water purification
43:45system
43:47what we also did is we petitioned the
43:50local jurisdiction
43:51to use a unit called an aquatron
43:54an aquatron is a three chamber rotating
43:57centralized composting unit that was
44:00going to collect
44:01all of the waste from the house
44:04we have plumbed all of the fixture
44:06groups
44:07with two or actually three different
44:10lines that come to this plumbing pit
44:13one black one yellow and one gray
44:17and you can imagine what the black and
44:19the yellow are right
44:20so we have designed this house to use a
44:23toilet called a dub latin
44:26d-u-b-l-e-t-o-n and what these do is
44:28these separate at the source
44:30the liquid from the solid waste the
44:33solid waste would come down to the main
44:35plumbing pit
44:36it would be collected and compost
44:39the yellow would be diverted to an
44:42exterior holding tank
44:43where it would be diluted one parts to
44:4510 and it would be used for
44:48in root fertilization of the plant
44:50orchard
44:51and the gray water would be distributed
44:53in the same fashion
44:54so the idea here was that this building
44:58was going to be actually generating
44:59nutrients for the local environment
45:02as i mentioned earlier the only thing
45:04that we can do with the water that we're
45:06harvesting
45:07from the skies that grow back for beacon
45:08springs is water the exterior plants
45:13we use a structured plumbing system for
45:15this house
45:16to do closed-loop recirculation and we
45:18had two loops
45:20uh here's an interesting story so we had
45:23two loops for the circulation of the
45:25plumbing
45:26and we discovered that it wasn't
45:28performing as intended well
45:30apparently the manifolds got changed and
45:32so we made it
45:33made a quick switch on the manifolds and
45:35everything was working out beautifully
45:37lastly we have a root cellar underneath
45:40the tower
45:41to store produce and then at the far end
45:44of the house
45:46we have our solar edge inverters
45:50the solar panels are entirely located
45:53on top of the garage outbuilding
45:56barn and they are as i mentioned
46:00charging not only the house but also
46:02providing power
46:03for their electric vehicle
46:06this is their average solar electricity
46:09distribution from inception until
46:11current
46:12and this is showing the net positive
46:14versus net negative
46:17what we are looking at is on average
46:19over the course of the last
46:21three years of roughly 3 500 kwh per
46:25year
46:26positive energy so they got plugged into
46:29the solar program before michigan
46:32changed its net metering
46:33and so for the next 10 years they'll be
46:36um accuing accumulating positive
46:40balances on their
46:41on their energy ledger
46:45so just to finish this up one of the
46:48things that was interesting about this
46:49living building challenge is it really
46:51asked us to kind of reconsider normal
46:54and it's kind of interesting because
46:56this recent coronavirus event that we've
46:58had has given us a chance to reconsider
47:00what is normal
47:01so this is la before the lockdown right
47:04this is what normal
47:06looks like this is what possible looks
47:09like this is la
47:10after the lockdown one of the ideas with
47:14this living building challenge is really
47:15leaning us towards
47:18what might be possible and it's much
47:21much more than just energy as you've
47:23seen with some of this brief overview
47:26but we have an opportunity here you know
47:28we're really facing some significant
47:30challenges
47:31and arguably this is our greatest
47:33potential to make
47:34the greatest change so that's a brief
47:37overview
47:38of this burbank at beacon springs
47:40project i'm going to finish the
47:41powerpoint and then
47:43have amanda share a little bit about the
47:45challenges that she faced
47:48all right um so i came onto the project
47:52i was um
47:53an initial member of the project my
47:57colleague at the time i was working for
47:58a company out of grand rapids called
48:00catalyst partners
48:01my colleague there eric doyle took the
48:04project through design
48:05and kicked off many of the petals
48:09including
48:11sight and equity and beauty and
48:14and got the the big three the water and
48:17energy and materials started
48:20and then he handed off the project to me
48:23when we
48:24finished up cds and moved on into
48:26construction
48:28fortunately for for bob and i in vetting
48:32materials
48:33into construction michael loves to have
48:36things
48:37be perfect and so we had about a year of
48:39grace
48:40in there in order to get everything in
48:43order to break ground
48:45um as bob mentioned early on
48:49the certification program is aptly named
48:52being the living building challenge we
48:53had
48:55no shortage of challenges along the way
48:58one of them just being getting up and
49:01out of the ground there was a major
49:03rainstorm early on in the summer when he
49:05was breaking ground and so that gave us
49:07a little bit of extra time to
49:09to end up vetting over 900 different
49:13products
49:13for this project um ultimately
49:17almost 600 of them were approved for
49:20use in the home and
49:24some of you have mentioned challenges
49:26i'm kind of reading the comments along
49:28the way
49:29regarding red list challenges with
49:33styrofoam obviously that's one of the
49:35red list items
49:37and just for a quick overview for
49:39anybody anybody that's not
49:42familiar with the red list what's on
49:44there are things like asbestos
49:46cadmium lead halogenated flame
49:49retardants
49:51there's about 20 categories and over 800
49:54derivatives within those categories that
49:57a home that registers now for the
50:00program
50:00cannot have any of those products within
50:03the home
50:05and so bob sent me everything he put
50:08into that house
50:09and we were connected at the hip at
50:12least virtually through
50:14the entire process so that we knew every
50:16single thing
50:18that went into the house was approved
50:19for use
50:21there were definitely some
50:24exemptions provided in order to ensure
50:27that the project could be successful
50:29and achieve certification one of those
50:33was the insulation we had to pursue an
50:35exemption for that
50:38in order to meet the performance
50:39requirements that
50:41we had to achieve to be net zero from an
50:44energy perspective
50:46um and a lot of that also came with
50:49advocacy michael mentioned that early on
50:52um part of this program is to advocate
50:54to push the building industry forward
50:57and so as part of this project we wrote
51:00to over 100 different ceos
51:04and sustainability leaders within the
51:06manufacturing industry
51:08to either share the information and be
51:11transparent and also to
51:15remove any of the red list materials
51:18from their products so that they can be
51:20used freely
51:22on a living building project and any
51:25other
51:25project that wants to use red list
51:28approved
51:29products and so that was a really
51:32fulfilling part of this
51:34even through all the challengers there
51:35there was a lot to learn and a lot to
51:38um was it was a piece that was bigger
51:41than just the project itself
51:43was pushing the industry to do better so
51:46that ultimately
51:47one day we'll have like a nutrition
51:49label for our products
51:51um and be able to know exactly what's in
51:53them without having to
51:55uh send so many letters and contact some
51:58of the individuals
51:59um another question i see i just wanted
52:02to add it's so funny that you're saying
52:04a nutrition label for our products
52:06i i kid sometimes and i tell our clients
52:09up until now the only parameters that we
52:11had
52:12in selecting products was do you like it
52:14can you afford it and can we get it
52:17we've forgotten that fourth one which is
52:19will it kill you
52:22yeah yeah so so that obviously is a big
52:25thing somebody mentioned indoor air
52:26quality monitors
52:27um in the comments yes um so that was
52:30we we tested twice in the home
52:34you have to test right after
52:36construction as well as at that one year
52:38mark to ensure that
52:39you're maintaining quality air within
52:42the home
52:43for for the owners and any guests that
52:46might be coming into the home and
52:47there's also
52:48daily monitors that are tied to a
52:50smartphone
52:51so that they can always see what the
52:55quality of the air is and let's see some
52:58other challenges
53:00uh were um let's see
53:04michael mentioned posting a toilet we
53:06also had to do a lot of advocacy there
53:09um and
53:12can i speak to that for a second yeah so
53:14on the composting toilet
53:15bob will remember this we met with the
53:18local jurisdiction
53:20and we had the actual manufacturer from
53:23aquatron
53:25live from sweden this was before zoom
53:28this was this was before virtual
53:30meetings
53:31it was 2 a.m in the morning for them and
53:34they
53:34joined us in a projection presenting
53:38this
53:38to the local jurisdiction but
53:41they opted not to not to take the there
53:44is a
53:44provision in the code um code or equal
53:49and they opted not to take that
53:51provision so we went ahead and tom and
53:53marty went ahead and they plumbed the
53:55house
53:56we've designed it this aquatron unit
53:58comes apart into three sections and
53:59we've created a pathway to come into the
54:01house
54:02so even though we were not able to use
54:05that in this house we have a
54:06conventional
54:08septic system which is considered a
54:11closed-loop ecology
54:12because they're harvesting their own
54:13water more or less filtered by the earth
54:16but tom and marty wanted to really raise
54:18the bar and show what was possible and
54:20so their their house is
54:21ready to go for the minute that that
54:23regulation changes and we can
54:25do that composting toilet um
54:29some other successes to mention on
54:32the material side with with bob and his
54:35team
54:35working so diligently to first reduce
54:38the materials that came on site
54:40and then either divert or recycle any
54:43remaining construction materials we were
54:45able to achieve
54:46a 94 percent waste diversion for the
54:49project
54:51that also has to go into ownership as
54:54well so
54:55the tom and marty do their best to
54:58reduce any waste and products that
55:00they're bringing into the home so that
55:02they don't create
55:03crate waste that goes to landfill and
55:05they're doing a lot of composting
55:07on site with their landscaping and
55:10and the acreage that they have as far
55:14as impact from a carbon footprint
55:17perspective goes somebody mentioned
55:18building
55:19new versus doing a remodel
55:22we did have to do a calculation that
55:25looked at what was that impact of the
55:27entire project
55:28start to finish even any travel that
55:31went into it
55:33the type of materials that were used for
55:35the home
55:36and we did purchase in perpetuity i
55:39shouldn't say we the owners purchased in
55:41perpetuity
55:42113 acres of land to help offset
55:47the impact of building a new
55:49construction home
55:51in in addition to that 365
55:54uh total co2 offsets were purchased
55:57um so the equivalent about you know
55:59planting 2
56:00000 trees so everything was taken into
56:03consideration
56:04from the perspective of not only
56:08upfront impact and what went into the
56:09home but long-term impact
56:12as well yes you did see a wood-burning
56:16fireplace in the home
56:17um that is part of the
56:21living building challenge based on where
56:23you are located if you're within an
56:25urban area you
56:26or even the surrounding
56:29areas if you're in a suburban area you
56:32cannot have a wood burning fireplace
56:34you have to be in a rural area and they
56:38at least based on the v 2.1 version
56:41of the living building challenge it was
56:43allowed um so that's why
56:45you do see that in the home um
56:49and then let's see just looking over my
56:51notes a little bit here to make sure
56:54it was kind of fun to walk through
56:57the project photos again that michael
57:00was showing because it
57:01it brought back some memories of some of
57:03the materials that we vetted
57:05and again similarly to bringing anything
57:07into the home
57:09we first looked at what could we find
57:12from
57:13the area that was had already had a life
57:15somewhere and give it a new life
57:17that was the easiest way to meet red
57:19list compliance was
57:21was giving something a new life and so
57:23the owners did
57:24a lot of looking around refill shops in
57:28the area
57:29uh the wood planks that you saw on the
57:31ceiling of the living room
57:33that came from a barn in ohio
57:37actually i think that was a schoolhouse
57:39in ohio school house
57:40school house floorboards from the
57:42schoolhouse
57:44a lot of the lighting was purchased from
57:47a second hand nature a fun little story
57:51about the copper sinks that you saw
57:53everybody
57:54loved their moscow mules and so
57:58jim beam was producing a lot of the
58:01you know the copper mule mugs that
58:04everybody drinks their mules out of and
58:06so because of that and the rigorous
58:08testing from an fda perspective
58:10um and human consumption perspective
58:14perspective they had the testing
58:16requirements that we needed for that
58:18particular copper and those things are
58:20made from the same
58:21copper that was supplying jim beam
58:25with their meal mugs and
58:28a couple other the bathtub that you saw
58:32as well was also a salvaged item and
58:35lovingly restored by the homeowners
58:39and even down to their outside
58:43kind of mud wash bin that they have
58:46there's a door
58:47that comes in from the lower level and
58:50they put
58:51a big wash bin and old concrete laundry
58:54tub out there to wash up before they
58:55come in the home
58:56it was found on the side of the road in
58:58ann arbor
59:00and so that was one of the the easiest
59:03ways to fulfill the challenge from a
59:05material perspective was
59:06finding something that had already had a
59:09life and give it a new one
59:11rather than trying to pursue vetting
59:14especially
59:15electronics any sort of equipment that
59:18had
59:18multi-components those were the biggest
59:21challenge to
59:22be able to pull apart wiring we all know
59:25ul ejected wiring
59:28often has flame retardants in it and
59:31to find something that would pass the
59:33red list in order to
59:35be able to bring it in the home was
59:37another one of our big challenges
59:40but working with michael and bob we made
59:43it work it was constant communication
59:46between the three of us during
59:48construction and
59:49with that i can hand it over to bob to
59:52talk about the
59:53the actual construction process
59:56all right thank you well done on both of
59:58your parts michael and amanda
1:00:00uh truly the the milestone of my career
1:00:03i've been a builder almost 23 years
1:00:06after a 21-year career at general motors
1:00:08at buick
1:00:09and probably as intense and involved as
1:00:11anything i've ever been involved with
1:00:13certainly from a building standpoint
1:00:15it's also represented almost 25 time
1:00:18wise of my entire building career
1:00:21because i was involved from day one when
1:00:23tom and i walked up the two track to see
1:00:25where the potential site might be
1:00:27and uh we agreed that day or he said
1:00:30he'd like to have me on the team and
1:00:31michael supported that thank you very
1:00:33much
1:00:34um so i've been there from day one
1:00:36attended most of the key meetings along
1:00:37the way and
1:00:38as amanda said was involved with all the
1:00:40vetting and planning
1:00:42um you know unlike a traditional house
1:00:44where we just go do it
1:00:45you know we we think we do it well i
1:00:47call ourselves or we call ourselves
1:00:48michigan the greenest builder
1:00:50because of our lead history and this
1:00:52project and so forth
1:00:53so rather than just doing it the way we
1:00:55want to we clearly had to be
1:00:58loyal to the plans the direction and the
1:01:00requirements of uh
1:01:02living building challenges tom said
1:01:04early on michael said earlier you know
1:01:05it's it's either do it all and get it
1:01:07certified or don't do it
1:01:09so there wasn't any option there was no
1:01:11option to fail
1:01:13so one of my greatest roles i think was
1:01:15being a teacher
1:01:18a cheerleader maybe a psychologist at
1:01:20times
1:01:21and uh you know not only and also being
1:01:24a liaison with a homeowner because tom
1:01:26and marty are very interested
1:01:28uh anal detailed whatever you want to
1:01:30call them so
1:01:31it wasn't like we were doing a lot of
1:01:33things they didn't know about or that
1:01:34the rest of team wasn't aware of so it
1:01:35wasn't us just going to build a house
1:01:38it was us representing the whole team
1:01:40and getting it done
1:01:41and you know certainly a lot of
1:01:43materials floor
1:01:44floor trusses joists all those kind of
1:01:46things are traditional but
1:01:48a lot of the ways it went together and
1:01:50certainly attention to detail
1:01:52was way over and above anything we've
1:01:54ever done before
1:01:55so all of that said in the material
1:01:58requirements particularly when you're
1:02:00buying
1:02:01these you know the s onc spf what the
1:02:04heck is a lumber so sf
1:02:06fsc lumber certified lumber sorry um
1:02:09you go buy that stuff first you can't
1:02:11hardly find a sore sort
1:02:13all of our lumber for that house came
1:02:14from grand rapids which is
1:02:16two and a half hours away and then when
1:02:18you buy it it's twice the price of
1:02:19anything you normally pay so
1:02:22being the builder one of our biggest
1:02:23challenges always no matter what house
1:02:25we're doing
1:02:26is trying to keep costs under control uh
1:02:29i'm not going to get in the numbers that
1:02:30the homeowner's wishes but you know
1:02:32we're at least
1:02:32double what you might normally spend uh
1:02:34plan to spend for a house like that
1:02:36so that i think is one of the biggest
1:02:38challenges on most of you are aware
1:02:40in in the green building area when i
1:02:42start talking about net zero
1:02:44it's expensive you got to spend extra
1:02:46money and uh
1:02:48material and labor costs have continued
1:02:50to skyrocket skyrocket they're higher
1:02:52than we've ever seen before
1:02:54and then you add the complexities of the
1:02:55green building on top of it
1:02:57when people are already in most cases
1:02:59past what budget they want to spend
1:03:02that was a real challenge the only thing
1:03:04that saved our grace here
1:03:06is um first like first of all we had a
1:03:08cost plus agreement with the con
1:03:10with the customer which was a saving
1:03:11grace but they were willing to put the
1:03:13bill
1:03:14and their budget went way way
1:03:17way over where they wanted to be and
1:03:19probably then some and then he had on
1:03:21the cost for abandoned services and her
1:03:23company and
1:03:24the architectural services the cost is a
1:03:27big deal for most people
1:03:28it's you know there's no way you're
1:03:30going to do it and
1:03:32unfortunately a thing like this i don't
1:03:35think
1:03:35in how many years you could never
1:03:37justify the cost
1:03:39but it really was driven by the fact
1:03:41that the client wanted to do it
1:03:43we all wanted to show the building
1:03:45community what's possible
1:03:47and and that we could get it done um
1:03:50so i'll stop beating the horse on the
1:03:51cost but in many building projects
1:03:54that's
1:03:54the single biggest challenge even even
1:03:57regular houses
1:03:58don't have a certification challenge so
1:04:01um
1:04:02but we had to be constantly monitoring i
1:04:04mean you didn't go a day where you
1:04:05didn't go visit between myself my
1:04:07partner and
1:04:08our incredible foreman roy um but we
1:04:11were always there watching
1:04:12um nobody could smoke on site there was
1:04:15no trash no mcdonald's or bags left on
1:04:18site
1:04:18and we had one small trailer that we
1:04:20kept there on every track everything
1:04:22that did get recycled went on that
1:04:23trailer when it was full we take it and
1:04:25drop it off of the recycle station and
1:04:27come back for some more
1:04:29but we really did an extreme effort to
1:04:32minimize the waste which worked really
1:04:34well
1:04:36and everybody even though there was like
1:04:38what michael 56 pages on that
1:04:40uh construction document or something
1:04:41like that it was expensive
1:04:43it was extensive and even paid you saw
1:04:46on some of the examples earlier
1:04:48the details on those pages were extreme
1:04:51so
1:04:51it really took a lot of paying attention
1:04:54to detail or you could easily miss
1:04:56something or
1:04:57screw something up so i commend my team
1:04:59for that
1:05:00um and another thing was interesting
1:05:03about the project was he built the
1:05:04garage first which we actually use that
1:05:06as a staging area
1:05:08put some temporary heat in there so
1:05:09working through the winter we had a
1:05:10place to
1:05:11use it as an office and lay out the
1:05:12blueprints and materials and things
1:05:15so clearly no question of the most
1:05:18challenging project
1:05:19of my career probably any builder's
1:05:21career i would say
1:05:23and i also take a lot of we also my team
1:05:25would take a lot of credit because
1:05:27most builders would never been able to
1:05:29pull this off i mean it was
1:05:30overwhelming the amount of stuff we had
1:05:32to deal with and the details and
1:05:34then you have the complexity of the
1:05:36product vetting and all the time back
1:05:38and forth with amanda and
1:05:40it was just over over the charts i mean
1:05:42off the charts in terms of complexity
1:05:44and so anyway we take a lot of pride
1:05:48in being able to pull this off and make
1:05:49it happen on top of that being very
1:05:52close friends with tom and marty that we
1:05:54were out we eat dinner at their house
1:05:55now and
1:05:56as i know michael and cindy do and we
1:05:58took them boating this summer so we've
1:05:59become quite great friends with them
1:06:02and that's been a real honor to be in
1:06:05that home see them enjoying it i was
1:06:06just there a few weeks ago and
1:06:08lots of dogs running in and out and it's
1:06:11it's just been a lifetime experience
1:06:14that you couldn't replace
1:06:15so with that i'll kind of let it go and
1:06:17happy to entertain any questions
1:06:21i'm kind of curious bob are there
1:06:24aspects of this project
1:06:26that could be boiled down to
1:06:29either materials or techniques that you
1:06:31will use on
1:06:32more everyday projects that you do like
1:06:35what are some of the takeaways that that
1:06:37you feel like you will
1:06:38absolutely be incorporating into your
1:06:40work going forward oh absolutely kylie
1:06:42one of the key ones would be the the
1:06:45structure as far as the air sealing
1:06:47and the insulation and different places
1:06:50those values
1:06:52i mean we've always known a lot about a
1:06:53lot of those things and you're probably
1:06:55familiar with eeba
1:06:56at eba energy environment energy and
1:07:00environmental builders alliance
1:07:02well we've been with them for 20 plus
1:07:04years so we've known a lot about that
1:07:05but
1:07:06by really paying attention to the
1:07:08details and some of the sequence of
1:07:10structure
1:07:11uh we offer those kind of things to
1:07:13other clients going forward and we
1:07:14always tell them we'll give them a
1:07:16smorgasbord of options and then they can
1:07:17pick what
1:07:18makes the most sense for themselves or
1:07:20their goals or their budget
1:07:22but uh clear clearly a lot of learning
1:07:25from this and we do take that forward
1:07:30yeah there are people in the chat saying
1:07:31you know you're bringing
1:07:33the vote up bringing the bottom up you
1:07:35know by doing this and people have to do
1:07:37these kind of projects to bring some of
1:07:39this
1:07:40to to the rest of us right and so those
1:07:42one-off projects are always going to be
1:07:44hard but it brings something to the
1:07:45table you know
1:07:46and probably um i don't know if you guys
1:07:49have a list now of all the products that
1:07:51you used in there that are
1:07:52are acceptable on the red list so if you
1:07:54did another living building
1:07:56challenge you can at least start with a
1:07:57few things that hopefully you know
1:08:00uh are approved because i amanda it
1:08:02sounds like you took
1:08:03a considerable amount of time following
1:08:06up with a lot of people to find out what
1:08:08exactly is is
1:08:10in these and so um you know that
1:08:12improvement just people
1:08:13telling you what's in the product is is
1:08:15huge so yeah we were
1:08:17we were pioneers a man and most of this
1:08:19was for the first time we got
1:08:21some information from the other living
1:08:23building
1:08:24uh challenge home out on the west coast
1:08:27most of it was homegrown here and we're
1:08:29also willing to share that
1:08:31yeah and part of the relationship too
1:08:34with ilfi
1:08:35is that we we actually did share our
1:08:37material list back with them
1:08:39for um open source anybody can
1:08:43can take a look and see it the the red
1:08:45list items that we did use
1:08:46and that yeah ilfi has a program called
1:08:49declare
1:08:51which has vetted materials that meet
1:08:53redless
1:08:54certification and emily just like you
1:08:56said
1:08:57with every passing project and every new
1:09:00opportunity
1:09:01that list keeps growing and growing and
1:09:03growing and this was a
1:09:05one of the small successes of many
1:09:08successes that
1:09:08this project enjoyed was amanda's
1:09:11efforts
1:09:12at one point in time you may have
1:09:14noticed on the construction documents we
1:09:16were showing clay tile
1:09:18for the roof this was in keeping with
1:09:20the tuscan theme
1:09:22that was until the budget reared its
1:09:25ugly head
1:09:26and so that quickly became standing sea
1:09:28metal which was a step down believe it
1:09:30or not from the clay tile
1:09:32but we were looking at a particular clay
1:09:34tile that lu
1:09:35ludoichi claytow made and
1:09:39amanda in her persistence lobbying them
1:09:43they had one of the ingredients in the
1:09:45tile that we were considering
1:09:47was cadmium and in her
1:09:51lobbying and making them aware of this
1:09:53they voluntarily
1:09:55changed the formulation of their product
1:09:58to eliminate
1:09:59cadmium remember how we said at the
1:10:01beginning this presentation it's a
1:10:03philosophy
1:10:04it's an advocacy and then it's a
1:10:07certification program
1:10:09so consider that mission accomplished
1:10:12unfortunately we ended up not using
1:10:13their product because because of the
1:10:15cost
1:10:16but they've now opened up an entire
1:10:18market and the whole
1:10:19idea of living building challenge is
1:10:21really rethinking
1:10:22how we create space and materials and
1:10:24products and the way that we do that
1:10:27so again hats off to amanda for just a
1:10:29job extremely well done
1:10:32yeah she was a yeoman i'll tell you what
1:10:35i can't give her enough credit we never
1:10:36would have pulled it off without you
1:10:38amanda
1:10:39ever thank you you folks mentioned the
1:10:41first
1:10:42the first uh living building residential
1:10:44living building challenge project
1:10:46uh al tozer is the designer there and
1:10:49that is in
1:10:50uh remind me of the location the desert
1:10:52rain and
1:10:53desert rain in benin in oregon right um
1:10:56so how much and that was what 15 years
1:10:59ago i think that that was built
1:11:00so how much of what they
1:11:03pioneered was applicable for your
1:11:06project because you mentioned that you
1:11:07were working under
1:11:09uh living building challenge version 2.1
1:11:11and now we're up to
1:11:133.0 or 3.0 so
1:11:16um how you know these are these projects
1:11:19are few and far between right
1:11:21so all of the vetting that amanda did
1:11:24uh is it going to
1:11:27be another 15 20 years before somebody's
1:11:31looking at that list
1:11:32um i guess how much information were you
1:11:34able to pull from the existing project
1:11:37um was that was that helpful um it was
1:11:40helpful
1:11:41um from a percentage-wise to say
1:11:44what we were able to glean from that i'd
1:11:47just be
1:11:47you know throwing a dart at the wall in
1:11:50the dark um
1:11:51but part of the challenge with using um
1:11:55their materials list is location so one
1:11:58of the things with
1:11:59living building challenge is it's very
1:12:01place based including where you're
1:12:03sourcing your materials it's not only
1:12:05the red list but you also have to be
1:12:06conscious how far away
1:12:07that you're sourcing those materials and
1:12:10so
1:12:11the heavier they are the closer to the
1:12:12project site you have to source them
1:12:15and so that was really the biggest
1:12:17challenge um
1:12:19of being able to utilize their list um
1:12:23but some things like the rainwater
1:12:24system was similar system
1:12:27to the um to ilify's headquarters
1:12:32in in washington and so we were able to
1:12:35source some things depending on where
1:12:36they fell
1:12:37within like a csi division
1:12:41in section one other interesting item i
1:12:45forgot
1:12:45was we couldn't buy interior trim doors
1:12:49moldings etc from somewhere else because
1:12:51it would have interrupted the chain of
1:12:53fsc certification so we bought the raw
1:12:57material lumber and different
1:12:58thicknesses and so forth
1:13:00that was fsc certified had delivered to
1:13:03the site so we could control
1:13:05the shipping and where it came from and
1:13:06so forth and then we had a carpenter who
1:13:08literally built all the interior
1:13:11products whether it be kitchen cabinets
1:13:14interior doors
1:13:15in interior trim moldings every single
1:13:17piece of that
1:13:18was built on site we set up a shop in
1:13:21the garage
1:13:22so that was an interesting challenge for
1:13:24sure
1:13:25not to mention that but i wanted to just
1:13:28jump in here and share that another one
1:13:30of the benefits of having
1:13:34tom and barbara who were the owners of
1:13:36desert rain
1:13:38when we were in the middle of this
1:13:40project tom
1:13:42and marty burbeck and i went out to the
1:13:44isle of phi
1:13:45conference in seattle
1:13:48and tom and barbara were there and so we
1:13:52had lunch with them
1:13:53and we established a close relationship
1:13:55with them which continued throughout the
1:13:57project
1:13:58and that was a really good thing because
1:14:00i'm sure amanda and bob remember there
1:14:03were several
1:14:04moments of truth let's just call it in
1:14:07the project
1:14:08where i remember sitting down with tom
1:14:10and marty at belle's cafe
1:14:13and tom had this thousand-yard stare
1:14:16because this i mean this really is
1:14:20a challenge and i think he was just
1:14:23like there were several moments when he
1:14:26came close to the edge and
1:14:27he persevered he stayed on and i think
1:14:31having another project out in front of
1:14:33them made that path in the wood a little
1:14:35easier to achieve and help them
1:14:37make someone else's path a little bit
1:14:39easier each one
1:14:41builds momentum and it's it's the it's
1:14:44the fall
1:14:45out it's the it's the collateral
1:14:46benefits that come from these projects
1:14:48and like bob has said
1:14:50he's now incorporating many of the
1:14:52things that he's learned
1:14:53in the project that he's doing and
1:14:54certainly for us
1:14:56i mean we're actually talking to someone
1:14:58about doing an lbc
1:15:00project in reno nevada right now a
1:15:02remodeling project
1:15:04so you just never know how you know how
1:15:07the impact is going to be
1:15:13there have been projects um that have
1:15:15used the
1:15:16say the materials list from our project
1:15:19um
1:15:19and and have used it in
1:15:22good faith because they want to use it
1:15:24but not actually pursue
1:15:26certification so even though you know
1:15:29i don't think it'll be 20 years before
1:15:31another project is certified
1:15:33um but you know that time frame is
1:15:35shrinking but
1:15:36i do know that it's being used even
1:15:38today
1:15:39um just you know in the spirit of using
1:15:42that list uh to do more good um
1:15:46but not fully pursuing certification one
1:15:49interesting
1:15:50thing to me is in my 23 year career uh
1:15:53when i first started and went to the eba
1:15:55events you know a lot of the things
1:15:57today that are mainstream
1:15:59uh lower door testing better insulation
1:16:02in the walls and windows etc i mean a
1:16:04lot of that stuff was unknown or not
1:16:06used very widely in those days
1:16:08and now even with the polities of the
1:16:09world and so forth we've come a long way
1:16:12clearly not far enough
1:16:13but it's been encouraging to see the
1:16:15progress and i see people talking about
1:16:17raised energy he'll trust
1:16:18us and 20 years ago they'd never hurt
1:16:20them before so it
1:16:22it is encouraging to me and probably
1:16:24beyond my lifetime it'll keep going but
1:16:26uh
1:16:27it's nice to be a part of that and
1:16:28promote it
1:16:30yeah no or i i have a bunch of questions
1:16:34uh first of all just thank you for
1:16:36presenting
1:16:37and using uh project and um i appreciate
1:16:40all your time
1:16:41uh we we had a bunch of questions about
1:16:44your trom wall and then
1:16:46um i was also curious about the airlock
1:16:49entry like just as part of my sales
1:16:51pitch
1:16:52um it's often what includes that
1:16:55that um a lot of experiments happened in
1:16:58the 70s and 80s
1:16:59that were good ideas but we gradually
1:17:02realized that air tightness
1:17:03and insulation and good windows matter
1:17:05more and so one of the things that
1:17:07often gets cut are things like chrome
1:17:09walls and airlock entries
1:17:11so i'm curious how you found
1:17:14that an airlock entry in an airtight
1:17:17house
1:17:18is worthwhile and then what what the
1:17:20what the impact of the
1:17:22chrome wall is on the overall energy
1:17:23performance of the house
1:17:25yeah the the first of all addressing the
1:17:28airlock entry
1:17:29what's what's so neat about that mic is
1:17:31you can have an airtight house but then
1:17:33you put something in it called a door
1:17:34and you come in and out of that door
1:17:37so many of the technologies that we
1:17:40would kind of abandon
1:17:41indigenous technologies i mean were
1:17:43there for a reason when we didn't have
1:17:44airtight houses
1:17:45we still had apertures and porosity in
1:17:48the home
1:17:48and as it turns out i would like to say
1:17:50that it was foresight but they make
1:17:53awesome decontamination zones too if you
1:17:55should happen to have a global pandemic
1:17:58you know just in case so it's it's
1:18:00provided other benefits as well
1:18:02and in that case it was also for us an
1:18:04opportunity to generate
1:18:06that basically it was a vertical duct
1:18:10that looked like a tower so it was part
1:18:12of the mechanical system so we can
1:18:14engage that or decouple that by using
1:18:15those doors so it did multiple things
1:18:18um the trauma component was that was the
1:18:21first time we'd ever done it we'd
1:18:23actually work with a local
1:18:25um architectural colleague who did a lot
1:18:27of work in solar back in the 70s
1:18:30and drawn a blank on his name amanda
1:18:32help me
1:18:34oh gosh wayne apple
1:18:38and him and then also the former dean of
1:18:41the college of architecture at the
1:18:42university of michigan
1:18:44uh was a big advocate for you know kind
1:18:46of that mass
1:18:47situation and so what we did is we
1:18:50incorporated it in on the south side and
1:18:52one of the things that we were concerned
1:18:54about was that you you can't turn them
1:18:56off
1:18:57right so when they're when they're
1:18:58generating heat they're generating heat
1:19:00and we were able to shade the upper band
1:19:03with the roof overhang
1:19:05and we had designed a balcony or terrace
1:19:08if you will
1:19:09that would have shaded the lower ones
1:19:11but budget being what budget is
1:19:13that got cut off and so we were really
1:19:15concerned about how they were going to
1:19:16perform
1:19:18in the summer time but what ends up
1:19:20happening is the angle of incidence from
1:19:21the solar radiation in the summer
1:19:23is such that the preponderance of the
1:19:25energy doesn't actually make its way
1:19:27into the trom wall
1:19:29and so they have performed absolutely
1:19:31beautifully
1:19:32that was a absolute challenge too for
1:19:35bob to build bob do you want to
1:19:36share with the team about building that
1:19:40yeah it was quite interesting of course
1:19:42it required coordination with your
1:19:44concrete contractor and the concrete
1:19:47supplier
1:19:47and pump truck and all those kind of
1:19:49things we could have built it out of
1:19:51cmu block units and filled them but we
1:19:54elected to frame it up and pour it
1:19:56of course i remember the first time we
1:19:57poured it one of the forms that blew out
1:19:59in the basement we had about two yards
1:20:00of concrete on the floor but you know
1:20:02that's what happens when you sign up to
1:20:04be a builder um
1:20:05oh in the day's work yeah so we learned
1:20:08quickly that even though we know about
1:20:09hydraulic pressure we had to
1:20:11extra reinforce those forms because they
1:20:13got i don't know what was the one
1:20:15michael 18 or 20 foot tall i think where
1:20:17the three big windows are
1:20:18top to bottom at the back side of the
1:20:20house yeah so it was full of reinforcing
1:20:22steel and so forth um
1:20:24but like everything else you know when
1:20:26you build it you're figured out so we
1:20:28figured out how to properly form it and
1:20:29reinforce it and everything and then
1:20:31report it and
1:20:32uh one of the biggest challenges beyond
1:20:34that was the selective surface getting
1:20:36that to look just right and
1:20:37we had to sign a sand grind and scrape
1:20:40whatever else you want the concrete
1:20:41walls
1:20:42even though they were poured in forms
1:20:44before we put the
1:20:45selective surface on there so we finally
1:20:48got her done but it was
1:20:49uh not for the faint of heart
1:20:52there might be easier ways maybe maybe
1:20:54we didn't do it the easiest way but we
1:20:56got her done
1:20:58it's fun to put your hand on the wall
1:20:59too and feel that heat in the winter
1:21:01time
1:21:02oh i'm sure in the offset of that there
1:21:05were a lot of questions about the tower
1:21:06did it work the way that you wanted it
1:21:08to uh would it work if it was a
1:21:11different
1:21:11shape well yeah so um this is a fun
1:21:15story so we have these
1:21:16uh tours of houses we call visible green
1:21:19home tours
1:21:20where you get to get in kick the tires
1:21:22and really see what they're all about
1:21:24and uh on our more recent tour we
1:21:27we were standing in that space and
1:21:29people's hair was being blown
1:21:32by the natural buoyancy and the venturi
1:21:34effect
1:21:36it it absolutely works in fact tom and
1:21:38marty i mean arguably
1:21:39they they're they're set points their
1:21:41comfort set points are a little higher
1:21:43than
1:21:43than most people but the only time that
1:21:46they turn on their air conditioners when
1:21:48we had this visible green home tour
1:21:50at the end of it because they had so
1:21:51much latent heat in the house
1:21:53they had it so they're using passive
1:21:55cooling as a way to cool this house
1:21:58even in michigan i mean it it's
1:22:01we're thrilled at how it's turned out
1:22:04yeah it works great i've spent enough
1:22:05time there there's no question it works
1:22:08well
1:22:10uh doug um i think it was
1:22:13doug horgan asked if there's lbc
1:22:16approved wiring did you have to do
1:22:18anything special to wire the house
1:22:22this is probably an abandoned question i
1:22:23bet yeah there
1:22:25there is some approved wiring um
1:22:28depending
1:22:28on whether or not the uh the authority
1:22:32having jurisdiction will allow you to
1:22:34use it
1:22:35is a different story um and so that was
1:22:38one of the challenges that we faced
1:22:40um in the type of wiring we were putting
1:22:43into the home and really any of the
1:22:44electronics
1:22:45and so there there was a lot of research
1:22:48done
1:22:49and ultimately it came down to pursuing
1:22:52one of the
1:22:54kind of exemption paths and there's a
1:22:56rojas compliance
1:22:57that is out there it's a it's
1:23:00a standard or you know a stamp of
1:23:03approval that's used a lot
1:23:04in the european markets and so that was
1:23:07one of the strategies that we use in
1:23:09order to
1:23:10find a happy medium with the
1:23:14inspector to be able to use something
1:23:18that was at least
1:23:19doing it had less of the things that we
1:23:22didn't want it didn't fulfill
1:23:24red list to a t 100 um but again those
1:23:28are the things that we had to advocate
1:23:29for
1:23:30back to the manufacturer even the ones
1:23:33that we didn't
1:23:34um purchase materials from um
1:23:38if we had to um you know based on our
1:23:40research we
1:23:41you know sourced it or tried to together
1:23:44as
1:23:45you know five to ten different sources
1:23:48and all those
1:23:50manufacturers receive letters from us to
1:23:52you know help us
1:23:53achieve this goal and so ultimately the
1:23:56rojas compliance was used
1:23:58quite a bit both in wiring and really
1:24:01anything that had to do with electrical
1:24:03components
1:24:04and part of that advocacy program is
1:24:07they want you to reach out to
1:24:09manufacturers
1:24:10and lobby for them first of all first of
1:24:13all make them aware of it
1:24:15i mean many manufacturers even still to
1:24:17this day
1:24:18maybe even some of the participants in
1:24:20this call or this
1:24:22zoom meeting are not even familiar with
1:24:24the red list as a concept
1:24:26so part of their idea is hey let's like
1:24:29i said
1:24:30do you like it can i get it can you
1:24:32afford it will it kill you
1:24:34this is about adding that to the list in
1:24:36terms of our qualifications for
1:24:37materials
1:24:38and so if you petition was it amanda if
1:24:41you would have petitioned
1:24:42three different resources and if none of
1:24:45them
1:24:46would meet compliance then you would go
1:24:49with the least
1:24:51egregious opportunity but you would let
1:24:54them know that you're doing so under
1:24:55protest
1:24:57because you really want to kind of keep
1:24:58the heat on so to speak
1:25:01that they would consider making these
1:25:02changes
1:25:04yep there was a motto that we had to use
1:25:06quite a bit throughout the process and
1:25:07it was
1:25:08not letting perfection impede progress
1:25:10um and so
1:25:12when the goal of living building
1:25:13challenge is
1:25:15you know to have much more progress in
1:25:17the building industry it's
1:25:19behind many of the other industries of
1:25:22the world
1:25:24from a efficiency perspective and
1:25:27um so it's really trying to push the
1:25:28envelope um
1:25:30to do much more good
1:25:33i hate to interrupt everybody too but
1:25:35we're at the last five minutes and to
1:25:37keep in keeping with
1:25:38it's 7 30 and we could probably talk
1:25:40about this all night i'd love to hear
1:25:42from each of you
1:25:43you know like what's your one takeaway
1:25:45from this project or doing this project
1:25:48that you would either share or do again
1:25:51or
1:25:51or whatever amanda do you want to lead
1:25:54us off
1:25:55um sure um
1:25:58this was in the tom and marty have a
1:26:01website for the project so that's
1:26:02another place where you all can
1:26:05find some more information on the
1:26:06project and kind of see the
1:26:08from their perspective why they did it
1:26:10um and so they had guest
1:26:12bloggers um share their experience and i
1:26:15i wrote a blog at the end of the project
1:26:18and it was titled that you know
1:26:20hopefully it's not a once-in-a-lifetime
1:26:22project you know it really truly was a
1:26:24once-in-a-lifetime project
1:26:26um but my goal is that it's not um and
1:26:28that we can do
1:26:30many more of these um you know whether
1:26:32it's
1:26:33with the team on this call or other
1:26:35teams
1:26:36but it's what we you know it's the work
1:26:38that we do and it's why we do it
1:26:41and the goal is that we can see many
1:26:43more of them rise
1:26:47uh two key words and then a final
1:26:49thought one is
1:26:50a commitment and the second one is
1:26:52collaboration
1:26:53uh you would never get through a project
1:26:55like this or even a
1:26:57lead platinum for that matter without
1:26:59the commitment and
1:27:00then that leads to the collaboration the
1:27:02team this would have never happened at
1:27:03one point we had 17 people on the design
1:27:05team
1:27:06so without all those folks and certainly
1:27:08the core group it never would have
1:27:10happened
1:27:12finally i think it's just that we need
1:27:14to take to heart what we've done
1:27:16and know that you can build really high
1:27:18performance homes that are not leed
1:27:20certified or lbc or anything
1:27:22else but i think in general we've taken
1:27:24a lot of these
1:27:25things that we've learned in the
1:27:26knowledge and we apply it to other
1:27:28projects whether there's a certification
1:27:30or not
1:27:30which overall enhances the quality of
1:27:33the building we're doing
1:27:36well what to say
1:27:40as bob has said kind of career defining
1:27:42project
1:27:43career defining opportunity career
1:27:46defining relationships
1:27:48career defining result there
1:27:52there is little that i think that i will
1:27:54look back on in my career that will
1:27:55compare to what we have achieved here
1:27:58with this project and it all
1:28:01started with a declaration by tom
1:28:04burback
1:28:05when he was down in his basement and he
1:28:07declared we're going for
1:28:08full certification or nothing
1:28:12and it reminds me of the declaration
1:28:15that kennedy made when he said we're
1:28:18going to go to the moon in 10 years
1:28:20we didn't even have the math to go to
1:28:22the moon in 10 years
1:28:24and the power of vision and declaration
1:28:28and we were blessed obviously none of
1:28:30this would have happened without tom and
1:28:31marty burbank
1:28:32who had the vision the courage the
1:28:35fortitude the resources and the
1:28:37dedication to make this happen
1:28:39uh it's interesting because when we were
1:28:41at the living building challenge
1:28:42conference
1:28:44terence tempest williams who's a noted
1:28:46author was there
1:28:47and she has a great quote which i
1:28:49basically live by
1:28:51and that is that the eyes of the future
1:28:54are looking back
1:28:54upon us and they're praying for us to
1:28:58look beyond our own time
1:29:00that's what this project is about we're
1:29:03all said
1:29:05yeah thank you so much for sharing it
1:29:07it's definitely
1:29:08inspirational for all of us um for
1:29:10everybody who's still here
1:29:12uh kylie will post uh this up on the
1:29:14blog post
1:29:15the replay will be up on youtube um
1:29:18there are probably 30 more questions
1:29:21that were in the chat box that we just
1:29:22never got to
1:29:24so i hope you guys will continue the
1:29:25conversation i know i'd like to talk for
1:29:27another hour and a half and ask all of
1:29:29my
1:29:30questions as well so um thank you so
1:29:32much for sharing
1:29:34your time with us tonight and this
1:29:35really special project
1:29:37um because it's it's definitely and even
1:29:40for those of us who maybe never will get
1:29:42to do a living building challenge
1:29:43uh project it's it makes every project
1:29:46better
1:29:46so thank you thanks for having us
1:29:49participate it's been great to be with
1:29:51you guys thank you all
1:29:54thank you happy new year to all thanks
1:29:57for all good night

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