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Here’s Why You Shouldn’t Live With Your Significant Other Before Marriage — Transcript

by Jordan B Peterson Clips · 3,234 words · 567 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00can you please elaborate on why you
0:03advise against cohabitation before
0:06marriage
0:08well
0:10so why would I advise against
0:11cohabitation before marriage well the
0:14simple answer to that question is
0:15there's plenty of evidence that it's a
0:18bad idea
0:19and and I just mean factual evidence to
0:21begin with although I think there are
0:23other reasons
0:25um
0:25people who live together and then get
0:27married are more likely to
0:29get divorced not less likely and that's
0:32a really interesting fact because it
0:34flies in the face of
0:37what you might think of as a kind of
0:39pragmatic common sense you know because
0:41you might think
0:43well you don't buy a car without
0:46taking it out for a test drive
0:48[Laughter]
0:51right and everyone laughs because that
0:53seems obvious but then you know
0:55woman's not a car
0:58[Laughter]
1:04and and neither is a man and really like
1:07seriously
1:09really not an object
1:13and so it isn't obvious at all that that
1:15metaphor applies even though it's
1:19at first shallow glance it's
1:23it seems obviously true well but if it's
1:27obviously true then you might say well
1:28why do people who live together why are
1:30people who live together before they get
1:31married more likely to get divorced and
1:34one possible answer to that is well
1:36people who are more likely to get
1:38divorced are the same people who are
1:40more likely to live together rather than
1:42to get married and that's possible it's
1:44very difficult to separate those two
1:46things so but in some sense it doesn't
1:48matter
1:49what the facts reveal is that if the
1:52goal is to
1:55learn what you need to learn so that you
1:58can decide who you should marry more
2:01effectively or learn how to act if you
2:05do get married more effectively and the
2:07goal is that your marriage will be
2:09better and last then it doesn't work
2:13and so and that's a strange truth
2:18and then you might ask yourself well why
2:20why doesn't it work it's also the case
2:23by the way that
2:25the more sexual partners the larger the
2:28number of sexual partners that someone
2:29has had before they get married the more
2:31likely they are to get divorced as well
2:34and that's also it's also the okay the
2:37case by the way and this is also
2:39interesting
2:40so I spent a lot of time studying
2:43criminal behavior in all sorts of
2:46different manifestations some of it on
2:48the political front with regard to the
2:51behavior of people who committed
2:52terrible atrocities in the service of
2:55political belief
2:56some of it
2:59on the
3:01like the frontier of of criminal sadism
3:04itself I spent a lot of time
3:07studying the behavior of of serial
3:10killers and and mass tortures and people
3:13like that
3:15but I also spend a lot of time
3:18as a research scientist looking at
3:22what psychiatrists and psychologists
3:26know as anti-social behavior and
3:29anti-social behavior is the pattern of
3:32behavior that characterizes criminals
3:35and
3:36it's it usually makes itself manifest
3:39pretty early in life
3:40perhaps as early as two years old by the
3:43way
3:44and it's once it's established it's
3:47extremely stable it's
3:50it's
3:52it isn't
3:53obvious at all that psychologists or
3:56psychiatrists
3:58have
4:00learned anything about how to remediate
4:06anti-social Behavior so criminal
4:08Behavior or its precursors in childhood
4:12once it's there that especially seems to
4:14be the case after about four years of
4:16age once it's there
4:18it's
4:20unbelievably stable and resilient to and
4:24resistant to change
4:26and it has a lot of
4:29different aspects anti-social Behavior
4:32but one of the markers for anti-social
4:35Behavior
4:37delinquency childhood conduct disorder
4:39early onset criminality is
4:42early sexual behavior and and multiple
4:46partners
4:47and so
4:48you know you can take that for what it's
4:51worth
4:52why is that the case
4:56you could speculate
4:59someone who's
5:01oriented in a criminal direction is more
5:04likely to take advantage of someone else
5:06for their own gratification I think
5:07that's the basic commonality I don't
5:09know that for sure
5:11because we don't know why these
5:13different symptoms of criminality let's
5:16say
5:17linked together apart from the fact that
5:19criminals are predators and the Really
5:23pathological criminals are predatory
5:26parasites and that's really what defines
5:28the psychopath by the way is a predatory
5:31a psychopath is a predatory parasite
5:34um
5:36the archetypal psychopath is a sadistic
5:39predatory parasite so the sadist takes
5:43Delight in the pain of others so
5:45positive pleasure in the pain of others
5:46the predator
5:48uses others to their own advantage and
5:51the parasite
5:53takes no responsibility for his or her
5:56own
5:57existence and
6:01manipulates or compels others to serve
6:04that goal and so that's kind of an ugly
6:08combination of traits and one of the
6:10core elements of that is
6:12early multiple partner promiscuity
6:15and so
6:17that's
6:19that's interesting and that also might
6:22explain why
6:25more pre-marriage sexual partners
6:28increases the probability of divorce is
6:31that it's a marker for
6:36the pattern of behavior that
6:40is characterized by the exploitation of
6:42others and is therefore
6:44more likely to be unsustainable over the
6:47medium to long run
6:49so that's interesting then you can think
6:52about it
6:54kind of think about it metaphysically
6:57I thought about this or philosophically
7:00I thought about what is it what are you
7:02telling someone
7:03when you live with them
7:05okay so I've talked to lots of people
7:08women
7:10who are cohabiting with men
7:12are generally not very happy about the
7:16fact that the relationship is not moving
7:19towards marriage now I think the reason
7:21there's a bunch of reasons for that
7:22women seem to suffer more
7:25emotionally as a consequence of sexual
7:28activity outside of a committed
7:30relationship you can imagine why that is
7:32women experience more negative emotion
7:35than men on average in general but also
7:39women pay a much higher sex is much
7:42riskier for women than it is for men
7:44obviously
7:46hopefully I don't have to explain why
7:47that is
7:49so
7:51and so women are often not for women who
7:54are cohabiting are often less than happy
7:55about that and the men who I've talked
7:58to about
7:59that
8:01with about their partners
8:05displeasure with the current
8:08unstable nature of the relationship
8:11often say something like well we don't
8:14need a piece of paper to
8:17indicate our commitment to each other
8:19which sounds all
8:23revolutionary and Shea Guevara but which
8:26is
8:27really a pretty pathetic bit of
8:30reasoning first of all
8:34for someone to say that means they think
8:37that what they just said convinces you
8:40that all marriage is is a piece of paper
8:43and that's
8:45that's a preposterously foolish argument
8:47I mean at minimum
8:50in the typical marriage ceremony
8:52you make a vow by whatever is Holy to
8:56you or at least in front of the state
8:58itself
8:59and then in front of your community as
9:03you define it that you're going to make
9:06a commitment to someone and if you think
9:08that's nothing
9:10then you're probably the sort of person
9:12that the person you asked
9:15to marry you should run away from
9:20so
9:21so that's pretty shallow
9:23and then you might ask well why do you
9:25need to commit to your partner
9:27in front of your community and a higher
9:31authority let's say and the answer is
9:33well life is really really difficult and
9:35you're going to have rough time with
9:37your partner no matter how much you love
9:39them because the two of you are
9:41different and you're different sexually
9:44and you're different temperamentally and
9:48so you're not going to see eye to eye
9:49all the time and then horribly difficult
9:51things are going to come your way and
9:54they're going to
9:56the complexity of those difficult things
9:59is going to tempt you to pull apart
10:02and exactly when pulling apart might be
10:06the worst possible thing for you and
10:08maybe you need that vowel before your
10:11community and God himself let's say or
10:14at least the state
10:15and The Vow that you've made to yourself
10:17and your partner and The Vow that you've
10:20made publicly to all your friends to
10:22keep you together when the going gets
10:25rough
10:27and you might say well you don't need
10:28that
10:29and I would say well that's just because
10:31the going hasn't got rough enough for
10:33you yet because when it does get that
10:35rough you'll bloody well know that you
10:37needed that that's for sure and that
10:39will definitely happen to you
10:42thank you
10:46that will definitely happen to you if
10:49you marry someone because all the things
10:51that life can throw at you
10:55will be thrown at you in the course of a
10:58marriage
10:59and so
11:01the vowel
11:05and the community commitment you don't
11:08just throw that away casually and you
11:11certainly don't say well that's just a
11:12piece of paper you know what do I need a
11:15piece of paper to validate my love it's
11:16like your love's Not Great is it you're
11:18really that much of a saint that this
11:20person they can just you say you love
11:23them and oh man they're just done
11:25they're in Bliss they're in Paradise for
11:27the rest of their life they can just
11:29rely you're never going to waver now
11:31that you expressed your love you're just
11:34going to be there 100 of the time you
11:36don't need anyone else to help you you
11:38don't need a vow you don't need any
11:39tradition so your love is so pure and
11:42holy that that other person they just
11:43rely on you from that second onward no
11:46hesitation it's like yeah right
11:49that's just complete bloody rubbish you
11:52can't even rely on yourself in
11:54relationship to yourself
11:56for that so
11:58[Applause]
12:04okay so next
12:07what are you telling your partner well
12:09as far as I can tell if you live with
12:11someone here's what you're saying to
12:13each other
12:15you're the best I can manage at the
12:17moment
12:20and maybe the same applies to me for you
12:24and uh we both really don't want to take
12:28on any more responsibility than
12:29necessary Plus
12:32we both want to have the option of
12:34trading up if it opportunity comes along
12:38and so why don't we just
12:42make do with this provisional
12:45arrangement
12:48well we cast our eye out into the
12:50broader world and see if we can fish
12:52something better in
12:54and
12:56you know you can say I'm cynical about
12:58that but I don't think I'm cynical about
13:00that I
13:02because living together means something
13:04like well we're not permanently
13:06committed and not permanently committed
13:08means well we're impermanently committed
13:10and impermanently committed means
13:14we're looking for a better commitment or
13:16or perhaps to be alone but forget that
13:18because that's usually not true well
13:21what kind of basis is that to have a
13:23relationship with someone how are you
13:24going to found a relationship on that
13:27especially an intimate relationship
13:29how is that going to work it's like
13:31you'll do for now
13:38I I don't think that's a very solid
13:41foundation to
13:44to move forward
13:48to to allow you to move forward and then
13:52it's indeterminate too is well if you're
13:53just living together do you have kids
13:59because that's a commitment that's for
14:01sure and that's a real commitment or it
14:03better be and it's going to be
14:04inevitably anyways and so if there's
14:07ambiguity about your commitment to each
14:09other there's going to be ambiguity
14:11about
14:12your plans for children and that's a
14:14huge ambiguity in most relationships so
14:16that's not helpful that just means
14:18neither of you know what the hell you're
14:20doing and that provokes anxiety and
14:23uncertainty and it and it it decreases
14:27hope because hope is experienced in
14:29relationship to a goal and if the goal
14:31is ambiguous maybe we'll have kids and
14:34maybe we'll not well then there's no
14:36real hope there and so that seems to be
14:39a pretty decent Pathway to misery
14:42so
14:45and then the next issue is
14:48and this is the final one that I'll
14:50discuss is
14:54you're not married if you're living
14:55together
14:57and so you might say well you're
14:58practicing being married it's like no
15:00you're not why because
15:04it's not something you can simulate
15:08so one of the things I learned from
15:09Reading Carl Jung Jung thought about
15:11marriage as a container as an outcome as
15:14a container for alchemical
15:15transformation as a container
15:19that would produce a heat so intense
15:21that the base metal of your psychic
15:26could be transformed into something
15:27ideal but it had to be a container that
15:30could take could take heat because it
15:32requires heat to transform
15:34and you might say well how much heat
15:36does someone as base as you need to
15:38transform and the answer might be a lot
15:41of heat I need a lot of heat and
15:42pressure before I'm going to change
15:44before I'm going to become purified in
15:46any real sense
15:48and so what's the heat and pressure
15:49here's what it is you don't get to run
15:52away
15:53you're stuck with that person
15:56and they're stuck with you and you made
15:58a vow it's like oh
16:00I'm stuck with you
16:02just like I'm stuck with me and and and
16:05and The Vow is exactly that right in
16:08some real sense The Vow is I'm going to
16:11treat you like you're me
16:13and you don't even like yourself very
16:15much so
16:16that's a vicious vow and so you might
16:19say well how desperate do you have to be
16:21when confronted by someone else to
16:24change your ways and the answer might be
16:27well you have to be as desperate as
16:29being Shackled to someone makes you you
16:32know one of the reasons that Tammy and I
16:34have gone along and are still together
16:37is because
16:40we both know that
16:42we're stuck with each other
16:44and so
16:46and so we decided quite a long time ago
16:49that we didn't want to have the same
16:50stupid fight every day for the next 40
16:52years
16:53and so and that's like the definition of
16:56a bad marriage it's like we're having
16:58the same fight every day for 40 years
17:01that's hell and so the alternative is
17:04now let's just have a bloody fight Right
17:06Here and Now
17:07and see if we can sort out whatever the
17:10hell is so stupid about us that's
17:12keeping us in this dismal hell and why
17:16well because otherwise
17:18we're just stuck with this misery and if
17:21you can walk away and if you can leave
17:23which you can if you're not bound
17:25together then you're not gonna
17:28withstand the horrible process of heat
17:32and pressure that's required to make you
17:35transform
17:36you'll just walk around that you'll just
17:39look for an excuse I mean people look
17:41for an excuse not to do that anyways and
17:44so
17:45part of the reason you get married is so
17:47you're desperate enough to change
17:50and and maybe that doesn't even work
17:53[Applause]
17:56so those are the reasons you
17:58those are the reasons that
18:04no there's there's one more there's one
18:06more
18:07this is the next thing
18:11it's it's a necessary Act of Faith
18:15and you know in our culture
18:19because we're not very wise
18:21we think that faith means especially
18:24when it's
18:27parodied as religious faith we think
18:29faith means the willingness to suspend
18:32disbelief while swallowing a proposition
18:34that any fool would reject that's often
18:37how the rationalist atheists view
18:40religious claims
18:43faith means the suspension of your
18:46rationality and the acceptance of an
18:49an absurd claim
18:52but that isn't what faith means not
18:54really
18:56faith is what makes
18:59movement into the unknown possible and
19:02you need to move into the unknown
19:04because that's where you're moving
19:06and because the unknown is unknown
19:08because the future is unknown you cannot
19:11step forward into the unknown without
19:14faith
19:16it wouldn't be unknown if you knew it
19:18if you knew it it wouldn't require Faith
19:20but you don't know it and so
19:23you step forward into the unknown future
19:26as a consequence of your faith in some
19:29principles and if you love someone if
19:32you fall in love with someone and you
19:33decide to marry them
19:34you don't have the evidence at hand that
19:38that's the right person for you
19:40what you have instead is the joint
19:43decision that come hell or high water
19:46you're going to struggle forward
19:49together
19:50and then you don't even know if that's
19:52the right decision
19:54because you're not going to know until
19:55you're
19:57till you've been married like your whole
20:00life you're not going to have the data
20:03and so you do have to throw yourself
20:05into the abyss
20:08to be married
20:10just like you have to throw yourself
20:11into the abyss to be alive
20:15you have to move forward in faith and
20:18then you might say well how do you call
20:20the best out of yourself and out of your
20:22partner that maybe a partner that you're
20:24fortunate enough to love and the answer
20:27might be by
20:29offering them the gift of faith and by
20:32saying look you know flawed as we both
20:35are
20:38if we commit to each other
20:42we have the possibility of becoming more
20:44than we are
20:46and I'd like to do that with you even
20:48though there's no evidence that it's
20:50going to work
20:51and but then you might think too the
20:52more deeply you're committed to that
20:54faith the more likely it is to work and
20:58you can't find out what that commitment
21:00is without the commitment and so you
21:02can't simulate it by living together
21:05because it's not real
21:07it's not real until you make the
21:09commitment
21:11and so
21:13and then I would also say well what if
21:15you don't make the commitment
21:18well then you're not committed
21:21and and you might say well why should I
21:23be committed well what's the alternative
21:25it's to be uncommitted well
21:28are you free then
21:30or are you just aimless and hopeless and
21:32Confused
21:33and
21:34you admire people who are committed to
21:37something you sort of wish yourself when
21:38when you're feeling aimless and you feel
21:41that your life is meaningless you might
21:42think well I really wish I was committed
21:45to something wouldn't it be nice to be
21:47committed to something it's like well
21:49commit to something then
21:51and you say well I don't have the
21:53evidence it's like you don't commit
21:55because of the evidence you commit
21:57because of faith and there's foolish
21:59Faith you know there's naive faith and
22:01there's Blind Faith and I'm not talking
22:03about any of that I'm talking about
22:06stake in your life on something that
22:09might work if you just
22:12if if God was willing if the Fate smiled
22:15on you and you put your whole soul into
22:17it
22:18and
22:20that's what you do
22:22when you vow to
22:24stay faithful to someone and you can't
22:27simulate that it says it doesn't work so
22:30there's like five reasons why it doesn't
22:32work and me I don't know if you find
22:35those reasons compelling or not but I've
22:37thought about them a lot and I
22:39you know maybe there's a part of me that
22:41wishes that isn't how life was and that
22:43you could just
22:46have a casual relationship with someone
22:48and then trade them in on someone better
22:51if they happen to come along but
22:54I just don't believe that's
22:58that's delusional to believe that at
23:01best and it's like
23:04machiavelle and Machiavellian
23:06Psychopathic and narcissistic and
23:09criminal at worse
23:10and so
23:12[Applause]

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