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Her Secret To Selling A $10K Online Course (With Ease) — Transcript

by Jay Clouse · 9,779 words · 1,344 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00a lot of creators dream of creating and
0:02selling an online course
0:05creating is the easy part it's selling
0:07that's the hard part if you've ever
0:08talked to anyone
0:11offer they'll tell you you have to do
0:13sales calls I was like no no I'm
0:16definitely not gonna do that that's
0:18Mariah cause the founder of fearless CEO
0:20Mariah has spent the last seven years
0:22working closely with business owners on
0:24their courses group programs webinars
0:26Evergreen funnels and more but Mariah
0:28didn't love the launch model so she
0:30built a new method that she calls the
0:33high ticket hybrid I innovated a way to
0:36not do sales calls at scale and it
0:40worked like gangbusters everyone started
0:42asking how are you doing that wait what
0:44does that look like what's the strategy
0:46people were like blown away as a result
0:48of the high ticket hybrid and its
0:50popularity Mariah has been able to step
0:52off the treadmill of constantly creating
0:54new free content I literally eliminated
0:57the need for like high volume list
0:59building and odd audience growth which
1:01eliminated the need for a lot of these
1:03like common content marketing sort of
1:05strategies I was like I don't really
1:07want to do that so in this episode
1:09you'll learn how Mariah thinks about
1:10pricing how to design your own high
1:12ticket hybrid program how to avoid sales
1:14calls and why you may want to consider
1:16an evergreen offer and now let's talk
1:19with Mariah
1:26[Music]
1:34I really don't like following the rules
1:37I don't like listening to other people
1:39telling me what to do so I was
1:40definitely always like I'm gonna have to
1:42start a business there's no way I'm
1:43gonna be able to like have a regular job
1:45and one of the things I was really
1:48interested in in going to school for not
1:51Traditional School but going to very
1:53non-traditional was uh like Sustainable
1:56Building specifically at the time this
1:58is back in like 2013 2014 I'm super
2:01super into like tiny houses and living
2:04in a camper before it was cool way
2:07before it was cool like I was like it
2:09was like me and three other people were
2:10like the first people to be talking
2:12about this that was really where I
2:13started like online that was where I
2:15started a Blog in that Arena and that
2:19was where I launched my first digital
2:21product and I was super inspired by I'm
2:24sure you know Nathan Barry like back in
2:26the day so his um his approach back in
2:29the day and now I'm friends with Nathan
2:31and it's great I was like one of the
2:33first convertkit users like their
2:34awesome but back in the day reading his
2:37book I was like oh okay but my Niche at
2:40the time was all around you know
2:42renovating campers living in Vans I
2:46lived in my car for a while uh renovate
2:49you know turned it into a camper van all
2:51through the lens of like Sustainable
2:52Building and so that was like my first
2:55website blog content and my first
2:58digital product was all about that and
3:00it was the first one of its kind in that
3:03space you know people had been traveling
3:06to these in-person building workshops
3:08and in person you know workshops to get
3:11hands-on experience and I was like you
3:13know the in part and I had taught I had
3:15taught the in-person workshops you know
3:17dozens of times I was a guest speaker an
3:19expert at you know all of those
3:21in-person workshops and eventually I was
3:24like we can put this online like we
3:26could definitely translate this to an
3:28online thing and people were like you'll
3:29never be able to do that because people
3:31want to like learn how to build things
3:33in person but there there was definitely
3:35components of it that could be covered
3:38in an online format I created my own
3:40courses I collaborated with other people
3:42in that industry with their courses
3:45about tiny houses and building
3:47sustainable systems and stuff like that
3:49and that was really where I got started
3:51and that became a successful like
3:54business Way Beyond what I anticipated I
3:58did not set out to be successful I set
4:00out to like you know make enough money
4:02to live in my car like I was not trying
4:04to I was not trying to be fancy but it
4:07really became more successful and then
4:08of course what always happens is people
4:12start asking you how are you doing that
4:14like how did you you know I was back in
4:18and this is back in like 2014 2015. I
4:20started my current business in 2015. it
4:23looked a lot different then but that was
4:25kind of the cusp where people started
4:27asking like how are you how are you
4:29having this like a big affiliate program
4:31for your you know Sustainable Building
4:33course or like like how are you doing
4:35the marketing for it or how does that
4:37funnel work or like people didn't even
4:39know what the word funnel meant right
4:41but like people were just like how are
4:43you promoting it how are you selling
4:44this digital product and everyone
4:46started asking me about it in that
4:48little tiny space and then it sort of
4:51grew beyond that and I realized that if
4:53I was going to talk about those topics I
4:55had to put it on like a separate blog a
4:57separate website separate topic if I was
4:58going to talk about business stuff so in
5:012015 I created
5:03the uh yeah the the website and the blog
5:06all around like business topics and it
5:09totally just organically grew out of
5:10people asking me how I was doing the
5:13stuff that I had been doing in a very
5:15b2c Niche had nothing to do with make
5:18money online had nothing to do with like
5:20content creation it had nothing to do
5:22with any of that it was literally like
5:23you know helping people renovate and
5:26move into their old trailers that we had
5:28all gotten into at some point I'm sure
5:31that you were sitting at this Crossroads
5:33where you had the the building blog and
5:37then you had this this online business
5:39blog and they're probably roughly about
5:40the same size or success and I'm not
5:45talking to Mariah cause the tiny home
5:49blogger right now right so talk to me
5:51about at what point did you decide okay
5:53I'm actually gonna put all my focus over
5:55here because I think a lot of people
5:57experience these moments of like okay I
6:01have a and b which one do I choose I
6:03become very
6:04variable things and then I am like
6:07totally sick of them and just want to
6:09move on and do the next thing
6:11I've always been like that like my
6:13personality is like that I go all in on
6:14a topic get super obsessed become like
6:17the number one expert in it and then I'm
6:18just like no no literally I'm like I
6:20never want to talk about that again and
6:22it's like a two to three year cycle and
6:25so really by the time that the uh pivot
6:30point or like by the time the sort of
6:31two intersecting axes started to collide
6:35where it's like okay like the business
6:37blog is is meeting and starting to
6:40exceed the other
6:41um thing and I did I did both for a good
6:44while I did both at a certain point I
6:46was it was more that I was just like I
6:48feel very complete with that like I did
6:50that whole thing I became the number one
6:53you know expert on that little niche
6:56topic you know it's like I did
6:57everything that I could do there and I
7:00became bored and so what's cool about
7:03the business space that we operate in
7:06now is that I actually still goes
7:09through go through these ultimate big
7:11big like overhauls these Innovations
7:14these big like kind of burn it down and
7:16build it up against Cycles I still have
7:18that but what's cool is that we can
7:20really innovate and do completely new
7:22things within the context of building a
7:25business and still talking about that
7:27topic but like I said like the topics I
7:29was talking about business related in
7:312015 or 2016 is so different than what I
7:34talk about now and you can look back and
7:36really see like the pivot Points where
7:38it's like I've been able to continue
7:39having that pattern that works for my
7:41personality of like every two years
7:43getting completely bored and burnt out
7:46on something I never want to talk about
7:47it again I did it seen it don't need to
7:50do that anymore and then being able to
7:52like kind of innovate the next thing
7:55um and so what's cool and lucky for me
7:57is that I've been able to continue doing
7:59that within like a frame that uh can be
8:03somewhat stable rather than literally
8:06just like moving on to a completely new
8:08business which honestly if it was you
8:10know there is is probably a part of me
8:12that would start a brand new business in
8:14a brand new industry you know every
8:16other month if I had no constraints
8:19whatsoever relatable yeah if your
8:22current business was a book and we broke
8:24down some of these pivot Points as like
8:26chapters what are some of the main
8:29chapters that stand out to you over the
8:32last you know six years we're talking
8:34about when you transition to more of the
8:36the business building type of content
8:38and offers what were some of the things
8:40that you really
8:41dialed in on for a while but maybe those
8:44chapters have completed or at least
8:45paused yeah you can definitely kind of
8:47go through I call it like let's hop in
8:49the time machine like right Ride The
8:52Time Machine through the last seven
8:54years or whatever however long it's been
8:56but I think at first you know like many
8:58of us who you know I don't know how many
9:00of your listeners were you know in this
9:02online space back in 2014 2015 2016 2015
9:06and 2016. I was very focused on
9:08launching very focused on like live
9:10launching and these bit you know big big
9:12promotions a couple times a year I was
9:15super focused on webinars and
9:17specifically joint ventures and
9:18Affiliates like I said I came from
9:20having run like my the camper business
9:23was completely affiliate driven like
9:26very partner traffic uh driven and so I
9:30replicated that in this space and I did
9:32gosh I don't know dozens maybe hundreds
9:35of joint venture affiliate webinars with
9:38other people which is how I grew the
9:40business and my audience very very
9:41quickly and like I was mentioning to you
9:43before we came on here I really feel
9:46like I learned everything about that
9:48from being in a touring punk band before
9:51I started any of my businesses like I've
9:54lived many lives before before this one
9:56and one of those lives was being the
9:59singer in a touring punk band and it's
10:02literally the same thing as setting up
10:03affiliate Partnerships or joint venture
10:05webinars or anything like that where you
10:08know you kind of have to call around
10:10other bigger bands and be like hey will
10:13you let my band open for your band so I
10:16can get exposed to your audience and
10:18your fans and you hope that some of
10:21their fans were there to see them that
10:23they'll you know like the opening band
10:25and that kind of thing and then you have
10:27to reciprocate as well so you know I was
10:30also having to book shows for those
10:32other bands when they came into my city
10:33and vice versa and it's it's this like
10:36big network of like book you know
10:38booking shows for each other and all
10:40that kind of thing so it really is the
10:42same principle of okay well I know how
10:45to get in front of other people's
10:46audiences when I was a singer in a band
10:48and I would have to book these
10:50collaborations and you know do joint
10:53songs together and all this kind of
10:55thing like it's the same thing but with
10:56a webinar or with a blog post or with a
10:58podcast right right it's really the same
11:01kind of principle and I applied that
11:02into the business world as well so those
11:05first two years really focused on you
11:07know tons of live webinars live launches
11:10I mean I was going hard and I also burnt
11:12out hard I did end up
11:14um in hospital I had I ended up with
11:17like my yeah I was like I uh was giving
11:21a webinar when my appendix burst and I
11:23just like kept going no I went to the
11:26hospital after yeah no yes yeah when
11:30when pretty pretty hard those first you
11:33know that first 18 months and then was
11:34like whoa like I didn't really know I
11:36don't think you really know what your
11:37limits are until yes you know you and it
11:41and if you asked me like oh were you
11:43like tired or were you like grinding
11:45like I literally would have been like no
11:47I was happy I was I was good I had I do
11:50not have an empty gauge like I don't
11:52have that it's just all this sudden one
11:54day you just can't get out of bed and
11:56you're like oh
11:58I guess I burned out but I don't
11:59remember that happening I call that
12:02touching the stove I always have to
12:03touch the stove to like understand okay
12:05that's what that limit was right and
12:07it's not the best way to learn things
12:10because I could be like I'm getting near
12:12a stove something feels warm but no you
12:14go all the way and you touch the stove
12:15no you touch the stove and then you get
12:17burned and then you're like oh gosh okay
12:19so yeah there was a there's a lot of
12:21that and then switched and then made a
12:24pretty hard pivot to Evergreen and that
12:26was where it literally became a thing
12:28where I was like you know
12:30um a lot of people kind of I think
12:32reached that point where they've been
12:33live launching for a long time and I
12:35actually love live launching and I love
12:36Evergreen I think they both like in my
12:38world they both exit need to coexist in
12:40an ecosystem together but that was when
12:43I made like a hard pivot to Evergreen so
12:46I could take like an eight-month
12:47sabbatical and just kind of take it easy
12:50and kind of restructure how we did
12:52things so then for a couple years really
12:54focused on putting our courses on
12:57Evergreen now up until this point I had
12:59primarily been selling these business
13:01topic courses for anywhere between 500
13:04to 1500 that was kind of like 2016 to
13:08the end of 2017. now the next hard pivot
13:10happened January of 2018 was when I
13:14restructured my business again to charge
13:17High ticket for the first time and so
13:20this is my next two year cycle was
13:22switching to you know I'd had all these
13:25one thousand dollar courses and
13:27switching to combining all the courses
13:29and adding this very high touch coaching
13:31element which I had never done before it
13:33just wasn't part of what we did and you
13:35know raised our prices to ten thousand
13:37dollars at that time back in 2018 and
13:40that was kind of the next phase was
13:42really focusing on these higher touch
13:44higher ticket price point offers and
13:47since then we have continued to increase
13:49increase what high ticket means for us
13:52and our offers and the level of support
13:54that's included in that process figured
13:57out the the thing that we've become
13:58famous for and the thing that I invented
14:00in this industry is how to sell those
14:03High ticket offers without sales calls
14:05which was kind of you know in this
14:08industry if you're in
14:10if you've ever talked to anyone about
14:11selling a ten thousand dollar or twenty
14:13thousand dollar offer they'll tell you
14:15you have to do sales calls I was like no
14:17no I'm definitely not gonna do that I
14:20hate sales calls I hate having anything
14:22on my calendar like this this scheduled
14:25thing with you Jay is very very rare but
14:28very exciting yes I like don't have
14:31anything on my calendar I'm very picky
14:33about that but I innovated a way to not
14:36do sales calls at scale and it worked
14:40like gangbusters and then that of course
14:43became everyone started asking how are
14:45you doing that wait what does that look
14:47like what's the strategy people were
14:49like blown away and so two years later
14:52that became the pivot and it's like okay
14:55the next Innovation is again it all
14:57grows very organically of I I innovated
15:01something I figured it out and then
15:04people started asking you how you're
15:05doing it and you can I mean especially
15:07with what we now call the high ticket
15:08hybrid system which is how we sell high
15:10tech get without sales calls especially
15:12with that I was extremely resistant to
15:15ever teaching it to other people I was
15:17like I don't really want to teach this I
15:19don't really want this to be like this
15:21is not our like our brand was all about
15:24creating kind of like lower ticket
15:26courses in niches in b2c niches like me
15:31with the camper stuff I was very
15:33specific I was like I don't really work
15:35with other business coaches like I don't
15:37really teach other business owners how
15:38to do business strategy that's not my
15:40bag like I focus on the b2c niches that
15:44are not business related because that's
15:45my experience but eventually it just
15:47became so like again people are just
15:50begging you to tell them and so I
15:53created a little pilot program for that
15:55and then a few months later there was
15:57like 300 people in that group and it
15:59became again it kind of became the next
16:02pivot organically grew into the next
16:05iteration and uh yeah so those are kind
16:08of the phases of like going through a
16:11lot of different Innovations even though
16:12it's within the same category it feels
16:15like I had four different completely
16:17different business models in that time
16:19you know yeah that's that's a lot of
16:21great context so let me go back and
16:23clarify a few things that you said just
16:24to make sure that everybody listening
16:26watching this are on the same page so
16:29you you've used a couple of different
16:30phrases that are kind of like binaries
16:33so yes let's talk about low ticket
16:35versus high ticket how would you
16:37separate those two things for people who
16:39aren't familiar with that terminology
16:40yet so true and I really want to say it
16:43like everyone is welcome to Define price
16:46points in whatever categories they want
16:48for them I do think that depending on
16:50your Niche like high ticket in some
16:52niches might be two thousand dollars but
16:55in other niches two thousand dollars is
16:57like low low ticket mid ticket so it
16:59depends on your Niche but for me low
17:01ticket is like twenty dollars to two
17:04hundred dollars mid ticket like premium
17:07course is like 200 to two thousand
17:09dollars and then anything 2500 or 3 000
17:13and up three thousand thirty thousand
17:15sixty thousand dollars and up that's
17:17high ticket for me those are kind of the
17:18categories like low ticket premium
17:20signature offer land and then like high
17:23ticket and can you also give that same
17:25type of primer for live launches versus
17:28Evergreen sales yes I totally meant to
17:30do that while I was talking and then
17:31just kept
17:35kept so for those of you who aren't
17:37super familiar basically an open close
17:39enrollment window where you open the
17:42enrollment for your course and then the
17:44doors close and cart closes and you end
17:47enrollment until maybe three to six
17:50months later you'll open it up to the
17:51public again and during that time in
17:53between you're just serving your
17:55students and answering their questions
17:57and you know running your course but
17:59you're not always Marketing in always
18:01enrolling people and then Evergreen is
18:04open enrollment all throughout the year
18:06but Evergreen refers to both a marketing
18:10kind of strategy on the marketing and
18:12enrollment side like how are you how are
18:14you what are the systems that you have
18:15in place to enroll students or clients
18:18into your courses all the time but also
18:20the delivery side like what are your
18:22systems and onboarding processes and
18:25off-boarding processes in place for
18:27introducing if you have a new student or
18:30a new client joining your group or
18:32joining your course every single day you
18:34also need to like deliver free systems
18:36for having new people come in through
18:38Automation and how do they start the
18:41course and how do they know where to go
18:42and where's their orientation materials
18:44and all that kind of thing so it has to
18:46do with the marketing and the delivery
18:47but Evergreen means that you have the
18:51systems in place to be able to enroll
18:54and onboard and serve those students in
18:57your courses every single day of the
18:59year whenever someone's ready to join
19:01after a quick break Mariah and I talk
19:03about pricing Trends and online courses
19:04and later we dig into how you can
19:06construct your own high ticket program
19:08so stick around we'll be right back
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19:43welcome back to my conversation with
19:44Mariah cause over the last few years
19:46I've noticed that Course prices seem to
19:48be decreasing across the board courses
19:50that used to be 300 or more seem to be
19:52coming down in price since Mariah works
19:54so closely with course creators I asked
19:56her if she's been seeing the same I
19:58think you might be looking at what you
20:01might be noticing isn't necessarily that
20:04what used to be a what used to be
20:06considered a premium course has been
20:08like lowered in price but I think what
20:10you might be seeing is the rise in low
20:13ticket offers used as lead generation so
20:16they're actually like two different
20:18categories when I say like low ticket to
20:21me and in our business we call it low
20:23ticket lead gen offers twenty dollars to
20:26two hundred dollars it's actually like a
20:28loss leader and part of the reason for
20:30that is the increase in ad costs over
20:33the last few years and so someone might
20:36still have like oh like you said there's
20:38300 to 500 used to be what you think of
20:40as a course price there are still those
20:43300 to 500 courses but what you're
20:45seeing is that on the front end of these
20:48people's funnels or of these people's
20:49marketing strategies they've added a 20
20:54or 30 or 100 dollar front end offer that
20:57people come into first and then you
20:59don't see the 500 offer until you're you
21:02know in the funnel you're getting you're
21:04seeing an upsell you're seeing you know
21:06a promotion for that on the back end and
21:08part of that shift has been there has
21:10been an explosion in the popularity of
21:12these low ticket loss leader lead
21:15generation offers that their core
21:17purpose is to essentially like break
21:19even on ad spend or to attract you know
21:23someone who pays even just twenty
21:24dollars for your mini course before they
21:27buy the regular course is going to be
21:29more qualified more warmed up ready to
21:31go and people seeing that change in fire
21:33Behavior so I wonder if what you're
21:35seeing it's definitely there but I don't
21:37know that it's like oh what used to be a
21:39300 course has now been like priced down
21:42to a 50 course I think that that person
21:45probably said oh I need to add a 50
21:48front end to my offer suite and to my
21:52ecosystem of you know products because
21:54there that's going to lead to my 300
21:56course and then my three thousand dollar
21:58coaching program that's what I think you
22:00might be seeing because there has been
22:01an explosion of those and we use those
22:03very successfully they do work to have
22:06someone come in and buy a 20 workshop
22:08and then like for us seamlessly upgrade
22:11into a twenty thousand dollar offer so
22:13it definitely works and I wonder if
22:15you're seeing more and more of those
22:16super possible a lot of the circles that
22:19I kind of swim in
22:20I don't I'm not very close to a lot of
22:23creators who have figured the ads thing
22:25out yet they're not even thinking in
22:26terms of like the ROI on ad spend and
22:28the cost of this course are like I'm
22:30launching my first course where do I
22:33price it they seem to just be landing
22:35just looking around like where are you
22:37pricing it like I guess it's like 150 to
22:40200 like I'm just seeing a lot more of
22:43those as like a first product it could
22:46be I mean that's where I started I
22:48definitely started in that in that price
22:50range I was like oh 100 is the most I
22:52can charge so I think that's definitely
22:54true for like creators who are just
22:56getting started with like pricing and
22:58mindset they're like ah charging money
23:00is so hard so I totally understand
23:02starting at a hundred dollars and then
23:05you know a few years later that same
23:06course that you launched for a hundred
23:08dollars now a thousand dollars um with
23:10with the upgrades and evolution of it I
23:12think that could be totally true I also
23:14kind of get the feeling that for
23:15creators there's more of a volume that
23:20they have like they have an audience
23:21right primarily and they have volume in
23:24that audience of subscribers or
23:26listeners or something like that whereas
23:28I might be working with a course creator
23:30or an expert or a coach who has a
23:33smaller audience that they're starting
23:35with and so pricing is very crucial if
23:38you don't have a huge you know 10 000
23:40followers on your YouTube
23:42so interesting because I would agree
23:44with that also that's like the model
23:45they see and they assume is what needs
23:47to work but none of this stuff is as new
23:50as a lot of creators getting started I
23:52think that it is you know like you're
23:54coming from a very mathematical
23:57standpoint where like the you can you
23:59can just do the math and see like if we
24:02have this type of cost of acquisition
24:03this is where the price needs to put B
24:05and that makes a lot of sense a lot of
24:07people getting started are like I have
24:08people paying attention to me I should
24:10make some money from that like still
24:12figuring out how to do that but like a
24:14lot of the stuff has been figured out it
24:16was just before we had this term
24:17creators and we're talking about these
24:20things so well and also they probably
24:22like again I having been the person who
24:24did start with you know a 50 offer a
24:27hundred dollar offer and then very
24:28slowly raise my prices over years and
24:30years there is this belief that it is
24:33easier it is gonna like if you're just
24:35starting out with selling and marketing
24:37you're like I don't want to have to do
24:39that I don't like selling and marketing
24:41I want to be as like hands-off as
24:44possible and so there's a belief which
24:47turns out is not true but there's a
24:49belief that it will be easier to sell
24:51that their product at a hundred dollars
24:52than it would be to sell it at five
24:54hundred dollars and so they think it's
24:56going to be more work or more convincing
24:58or more difficult that they would get a
25:00lot less people at 500 than at one
25:02hundred dollars and it turns out you
25:05know from from you know
25:07however many years of personal
25:09experience it's not harder to sell
25:13something for ten thousand dollars than
25:15it is to sell something for five hundred
25:17dollars it's actually not harder it's
25:19just different and there's definitely
25:21been times and seasons in my business in
25:24life where it was gosh a million times
25:26easier to sell something at a higher
25:28price point that includes more support
25:31and more value and what people are
25:33really looking for versus trying to
25:35convince someone to spend a hundred
25:37dollars on something that they may not
25:38need
25:40you know if they see something for ten
25:42thousand dollars it's exactly what they
25:43want then that's what it is for people
25:46listening to this who are hearing you
25:47walk through this and throw out some of
25:49these numbers like ten thousand dollar
25:51High ticket offer and they're thinking
25:53themselves gosh I I want that are there
25:57anybody for whom a high ticket offer is
25:59a bad option like when should I be
26:01thinking to myself I don't think High
26:03ticket offers work for me and my
26:05business yeah I think that if you hate
26:08talking to people you won't so like the
26:11high ticket offers that I'm there's
26:13different ways you could design yours
26:14right High ticket offers usually include
26:16like course content and curriculum
26:18combined with coaching feedback
26:21personalized support maybe your offer
26:24includes like a one-on-one call maybe it
26:26doesn't it definitely doesn't have to
26:28and I even have clients whose High
26:30ticket offers include like a done for
26:32you element like a done-for-you tech
26:34setup or a Done For You video you know
26:36copywriting or done for you website or
26:39something like that like there's all
26:40these different elements that you can
26:41mix and match to build out your ideal
26:43High ticket offer but High ticket does
26:46mean higher support and that can either
26:49mean calls group voice messaging done
26:53for you it can mean a lot of different
26:55things but if you're like I want the
26:58most hands-off I cannot talk to people I
27:01will not be able to support anyone
27:03individually if that's where you're at
27:05which again there was like a time in my
27:07life especially when I was doing all the
27:09camper stuff where I was literally like
27:11traveling full time there was no way for
27:14me to like Zoom calls weren't a thing
27:17there wouldn't have been possible to do
27:19that from the road and like campgrounds
27:21and stuff so that was not possible so if
27:24if you're in a situation where you
27:25really can't or aren't interested in I
27:28think personality wise there are some
27:30people who really shouldn't do a high
27:31ticket offer because they don't want to
27:33support people in that way they want to
27:34create and then they want to put it out
27:36there and then they like don't want to
27:38hear people's feedback about it which is
27:40cool that's fine I totally get that I
27:42have definitely had seasons in my
27:43business like that as well but in terms
27:45of like Niche and stuff I have yet I
27:48mean we have people teaching High ticket
27:50you know with ten thousand dollar High
27:52ticket offers teaching belly dancing and
27:54BDSM and relationships and language and
27:58how to draw hieroglyphics like all sorts
28:00of it's really cool yeah like really
28:03cool Niche items that are not just how
28:06to make more money as I'm listening to
28:08this I'm putting myself in the shoes of
28:09a lot of my audience people that are in
28:12my membership and even myself if I'm
28:13honest and part of the hang up I feel
28:16when I think about okay what does a ten
28:18thousand dollar per year offer look like
28:21in my world and part of the head trash
28:24that I have in thinking about that is
28:26that I sell other products and services
28:28that are far less than that and give a
28:31lot of myself so it's hard to think of
28:34how do I 10x this other experience in
28:38terms of price it if I'm giving so much
28:41of myself over here do you see that with
28:44your clients where people are maybe it's
28:47under pricing maybe I don't know but
28:49that's that's the hang up I feel so can
28:51you can you help me throw that head
28:53trash into the actual trash yeah and you
28:55know it's not even head it's literally
28:57just Logistics
28:59to like figure out I've helped 100
29:01will make this transition where
29:03essentially 90 of people who come to me
29:06they're like already delivering High
29:08ticket value and they're delivering at a
29:11high ticket level but they are so
29:14grossly under charging like they are
29:16they're severely under charging and they
29:18are charging low ticket prices for high
29:20ticket delivery and they just don't know
29:22you know just like how we all have done
29:24that right like we've all launched
29:25courses and charged 200 and included
29:27like one-on-one calls and group coaching
29:29and all this stuff we just didn't know
29:31any better I've done that right so as we
29:33grow we just have to adjust and you have
29:36to make like we do this all the time and
29:38our clients we have to make these
29:39logistical plans of like it's not like
29:41you've did anything wrong however going
29:43forward your you know 500 course is not
29:47going to include personal feedback and
29:49coaching with you anymore that's not
29:51something like the 500 course it should
29:54include content and curriculum and it
29:55should include a group but it's not
29:57going to include access to Jay it's not
29:59going to include coaching calls it's not
30:01going to include personal is feedback
30:02blah blah blah right and so you actually
30:04have to adjust those inclusions so that
30:07you say okay that's now a separate offer
30:09here's what's included in that going
30:11forward you make a plan we call it sun
30:13setting you make a sunset plan for like
30:15okay how are we going to phase out that
30:17part of things like this happens all the
30:19time because a lot of times people come
30:21to us and they had made the mistake of
30:24offering lifetime access to their
30:26digital products which is not something
30:28we recommend and not something we do
30:29mostly because I care about people
30:32getting results and we know for a fact
30:33that if you give them lifetime access
30:35they'll procrastinate as long as
30:38possible and they'll never do it so we
30:40find that giving people a set access
30:42like 12 months or something really just
30:44keeps them motivated it's enough time to
30:47you know take your time but not enough
30:49time to completely forget about it and
30:51not get any value which is tempting when
30:53you have lifetime access so really it's
30:55more of a logistical thing of like we
30:58need to shift what you're charging for
31:01that amount of energy and we're probably
31:03gonna like separate some of the elements
31:04that you've been offering in all of your
31:06things so that now it's like oh the only
31:08way to get this type of support is here
31:11now and this looks different this is a
31:13fun I feel like I get to play like the
31:16faux objector and you just get to
31:17overcome my objections as an interview
31:19like what I do just like what you do all
31:22day right here's here's another thought
31:24that I have so if I'm listening to this
31:26I'm like okay High ticket offer that
31:27sounds fun that sounds like me I could
31:29see myself doing a group coaching
31:30program when I start thinking about a
31:32high ticket group coaching program the
31:34fear Creeps in of can I get enough
31:37people for there to be a group like how
31:39many people need to be in a group to
31:41feel like this product launch was a
31:44success because group coaching makes you
31:46think like multiple people
31:48do I have multiple people in my audience
31:50now that are warmed up to the point
31:52where they would pay ten thousand
31:54dollars per year and would they all do
31:55it at the same point in time how would
31:57you address somebody who's feeling that
31:59fear right now yeah I mean we all start
32:02with a small group at first my first
32:04first ever so like I told you my pricing
32:07shifted like from one week to the next
32:09like December 2017 my highest price was
32:13like twelve hundred fifteen hundred
32:14dollars January 1st we didn't sell those
32:18things anymore and it was now ten
32:19thousand dollars to work with us that
32:22first first group five people
32:25and that wasn't now this is coming from
32:28a person who had had four hundred
32:29thousand dollar launches before of their
32:32you know self-study courses so was
32:35getting five people into my ten thousand
32:37dollar offer was that the biggest launch
32:38I'd ever had no definitely not but it
32:42was enough validation and enough of that
32:44little seed for me to be like you know I
32:47could have said uh I only made fifty
32:49thousand dollars from the high ticket
32:51launch I only got five people you know I
32:53should go back to launching low ticket
32:55courses because I made hundreds and
32:56hundreds of thousand dollars every time
32:58I launched those but I was like that's
33:01the starting point that's the little
33:03seat those first five people I'm gonna
33:05give those five people the best
33:07experience of their life and those five
33:10people are just the beginning because
33:12then I'm gonna have the program on
33:13Evergreen where who's to say that next
33:16month I don't get another five people
33:17then the month after that I get another
33:19five and then a month after that I got
33:21ten the month after that I got 12. so
33:23you begin to have rolling enrollment and
33:26it all sort of starts to stack up so you
33:28know financially speaking I don't know
33:30where the line is for you and I tell
33:33every one of my clients to be like pick
33:34a threshold that makes it worthwhile for
33:37you to say this is enough validation
33:39that I can keep going with this I can
33:42keep tweaking this I can keep I can put
33:44it on Evergreen enrollment so I can keep
33:46inviting people to join maybe it wasn't
33:48the best time for everyone to join but
33:51if you can get those three to five
33:52people a month later you could get
33:54another three to five and then another
33:55three to five and then all of a sudden
33:57you've got 30 40 50 people in your group
34:00and it takes off from there so I wonder
34:03like I think for me it was really scary
34:06to go from 1200 course to ten thousand
34:09dollar offer with no like validation of
34:11that but those those first five people I
34:14was like this is this is the seat this
34:16is the beginning
34:17what were the bounds you put on that ten
34:18thousand dollar offer was that a
34:20time-bound program was that a year did
34:22it recur how how big how big was the
34:25delivery so
34:27first time it was just a nine it was
34:30like a nine or ten week program it was
34:32like the first round of it and I thought
34:34I thought in my head this is going to be
34:36a nine or ten week program and then by
34:39the end of the 10 weeks I was like we
34:42have so much more to do so then I
34:43extended it to 12 weeks and then at the
34:45end of the 12 weeks I was like we could
34:47just keep going because I had helped
34:49everyone launch their course in those 10
34:51weeks and then I was like oh my gosh
34:53there's so much else I want to show them
34:55there's so many like optimizations I
34:57want to do with them there's so many
34:58things so that was when I realized this
35:01could be a 12 month program now I don't
35:03think there's anything I think I think
35:05that anything between eight weeks to 12
35:07months is great and there's no set rule
35:10about that we ended up having a 12-month
35:13offer but I've also done it with six
35:15month containers done it with three
35:17month containers done it with eight week
35:18containers it's you know High ticket
35:21doesn't have to do with a time frame it
35:23has to do with the outcome and the
35:25result that people get and the support
35:27that you're offering them so so even
35:29though I ended up turning that into a
35:3112-month offer the initial version of it
35:33was like 10 weeks when we come back
35:35Mariah and I talk about how to construct
35:36your own high ticket hybrid course so
35:39stick around
35:40hey thanks for watching creative
35:42elements this is a brand new channel
35:43here on YouTube so liking the videos
35:46leaving comments subscribing the channel
35:48sharing the show all that support goes a
35:51long long way right now it is all seen
35:53it is all appreciated and even though
35:55this is a brand new channel here on
35:56YouTube I've actually been conducting
35:58interviews with creators just like this
36:00for more than two years there are more
36:02than 100 interviews that you can go back
36:05and listen to with creators like Seth
36:06Godin James Clear Cody Sanchez Tori
36:10Dunlap even YouTubers like Ali abdall
36:12Matt diovela Roberto Blake and Marie
36:15Poulin I've actually created some
36:16playlists for you to help get you
36:18started to dive into some of the best
36:20episodes that we've done to date just go
36:22to creative elements.fm playlists the
36:26link is also Down Below in the
36:27description but you can filter episodes
36:29there by platform or medium if you want
36:31to just look at episodes with YouTubers
36:34or just episodes with instagramers you
36:36can do that with those starter playlists
36:38at creative elements.fm playlist and
36:40again the link is down below in the
36:42description
36:43hey welcome back for creators who are
36:45creating a cohort based course or a
36:47group coaching program it can be hard to
36:49know how long to make the experience
36:50last four weeks 12 weeks somewhere in
36:52the middle I didn't know so I asked
36:54Mariah to walk us through the decision
36:55number one is you have to design your
36:58container to be make sense for your like
37:02please don't create a 12-month offer if
37:04realistically everyone could achieve the
37:06result in three months that's just not
37:08necessary it doesn't help anyone so make
37:11sure that depending on what you actually
37:13are designing your offer to deliver and
37:15what the outcome will be choose the time
37:17frame that's realistic instead of just
37:19like giving them this extended time to
37:21like wallow and like languish
37:24essentially number two is that's why
37:27Evergreen is so great actually is
37:29because on Evergreen new people are
37:31let's say you get a new client joining
37:33this group every week every single week
37:35There's a new chance for someone who
37:38fell behind and felt like they lost
37:40track and they they they lost you know
37:43they're they're off the calendar and
37:45they lost track and they don't know
37:46where they are and there's now a chance
37:48for them to be like that's my new buddy
37:50we're starting from square one together
37:52I'm not behind I'm now the expert
37:55because this person just joined and they
37:57know nothing and I got stuck at week two
37:59so I am gonna get started with them
38:01again so every single week or every day
38:04or every month there's a chance for
38:06anyone who fell behind or got stuck for
38:09them to restart with these new people
38:11who are coming in which is one of the
38:12reasons I really like the delivery of
38:14Evergreen it's like so motivating
38:16because they see new fresh people come
38:18in who are excited they're like okay I
38:20can jump onto their energy and like get
38:23started again they're never really the
38:25last one you know they're never really
38:26that far behind and then I do think that
38:28this is one of the most challenging
38:29parts of coaching and and having these
38:32more connected deeper relationships with
38:34clients is finding out for you
38:36personally where that line is between
38:39like proactively trying to pull people
38:41back into the program or re-engage
38:44people versus focusing on the people who
38:46are swimming towards you focusing on the
38:48people who are showing up focusing your
38:50energy on those who are you know
38:52self-motivated and it's especially
38:54challenging for me personally because I
38:56am
38:57so self-motivated I would never ever
39:00expect someone to like reach out to me
39:02and ask me where I've been I would never
39:04expect someone to like hold me I hate
39:06the word accountability I think it's so
39:09oh I just hate that word I don't
39:11understand it I am just a personally
39:13very self-motivated person I would never
39:15need that so it's very challenging for
39:18me to understand that there are other
39:19people with different
39:21patterns than me and I don't understand
39:24that I don't understand why if you
39:26wanted the result you wouldn't just show
39:27up for yourself so I kind of have a
39:30personal chip on my shoulder about that
39:32I think there's just a line there where
39:34you have to decide as the coach how much
39:36are you going to pursue like keeping
39:40people on track and engaging them and
39:42trying to like force people to get stuff
39:43done versus just being like look you
39:46either want it or you don't I'm not your
39:48mom like I don't know
39:51now I'm going to put on the hat of
39:52somebody listening to this who has an
39:54existing offer that they're doing
39:56periodically as like a live launch
39:59so if I have some call it two month
40:03experience and part of that experience
40:05has guided curriculum that I go through
40:08and I'm thinking okay I want to make
40:09this Evergreen am I literally starting
40:11from you know week one quote unquote
40:14every time somebody joins like do I need
40:17to schedule the the week one curriculum
40:21session every time somebody joins or you
40:23oh no recommending like phased like okay
40:26and now this group is starting over like
40:28how does that actually work in an
40:30evergreen situation with curriculum
40:32everyone is just going at their own pace
40:34and everything should be pre-recorded so
40:36like when people let's say because we
40:38have this too the first eight weeks of
40:39our Pro like even though it's a 12-month
40:42program people can join we have like two
40:43different time frames but people can
40:45join for 12 months but the first eight
40:47weeks are like a very structured like
40:50here's exactly what to do in your first
40:51eight weeks and then after that it's a
40:52little more Choose Your Own Adventure
40:54um once you have the foundations down
40:55but those first eight weeks people join
40:58and it's all like pre-recorded content
41:01so they start going through the
41:02pre-recorded content they start getting
41:04the automated check-in email so there's
41:06a sequence of emails designed around
41:08those first eight weeks and they start
41:10getting those when they enroll and then
41:12they're you know they're told exactly
41:13where to show up for their first call
41:15but like uh we're not doing anything
41:17manually it's not like oh we're not
41:20delivering any content live week to week
41:23we're not I mean you might do that
41:25during your pilot session your first
41:27ever round but after that everything is
41:29pre-recorded everything is in the portal
41:31everything is automated all your emails
41:34are automated and people can get them on
41:35a one-to-one basis then they can hop
41:38into whatever like there's you know a
41:40weekly call or a bi-weekly call they can
41:43hop on to the next call from wherever
41:45they're starting from and for us we like
41:48it to be self-paced like I don't like to
41:50drip content I like to have some people
41:52will work through the eight weeks and
41:54two weeks some people can work through
41:55the eight weeks in two months you know I
41:57guess that is two months but whatever
41:59you know people can work through it
42:01however they want I'm not going to be a
42:02stickler about that people are adults
42:04they can do whatever they want but they
42:05can then start coming to the calls and
42:07asking questions and getting support and
42:09all that kind of stuff so I think
42:11there's a lot this is why the delivery
42:13of Evergreen is the whole side of the
42:15conversation that everyone talks about
42:16Evergreen marketing and sales but they
42:18don't really talk about the back end and
42:20it's so important that like you've
42:23automated that piece of it so people can
42:25seamlessly like join into a group that
42:28already exists and once you have that
42:30going there's nothing weird about it you
42:33know people are joining all the time so
42:34it's just like oh cool welcome you're on
42:36week one like have fun that's where I
42:38used to be blah blah I've heard you talk
42:40about early decision options as
42:43something to think about when people are
42:45joining on Evergreen and the challenge
42:48that a lot of people think of when they
42:50think about going to Evergreen is how do
42:52I get people to make a decision now at
42:54all without creating some sort of like
42:56real urgency so whether it's early
42:59decision options or whether it's some
43:01other method I would love to hear your
43:03favorite way is to get people to make a
43:05decision to opt in when there's no
43:08actual like deadline urgency yeah so we
43:13actually do have an evergreen decision
43:16like time frame so people once they come
43:21into the funnel they'll have like seven
43:23days to make a decision to join or not
43:26if they don't decide to join during that
43:27time there's a few things that can
43:29happen and choosing and this is this is
43:31one of the main things of understanding
43:32Evergreen doesn't just mean that you
43:34slap your sales page up on your website
43:36and you're just like it's open 24 7 for
43:38everyone no matter what like for us
43:40there's a process especially for our for
43:43high ticket programs there's an
43:44application where we genuinely review
43:46every person's application so people
43:49apply and then if they're accepted it's
43:52like here you have seven days to make a
43:54decision to enroll here's how to get all
43:56your questions answered before you
43:57enroll here's all the information about
43:58the program let us know how we can help
44:00you and blah blah blah so the whole
44:03thing here is that like choosing the
44:05Evergreen incentive like the Evergreen
44:07enrollment incentive that you're going
44:09to use needs to be aligned with your
44:11brand and it's different for everyone so
44:13I'll give you a couple of examples one
44:15could be like an expiring bonus it could
44:18be bonus content that hey if you join in
44:20the next seven days you get access to
44:21this extra bonus content after that you
44:24can still join later but you're not
44:25going to get that bonus content
44:27sometimes it's a bonus one-on-one call
44:29that you know if you join during that
44:31enrollment window then you get a bonus
44:33one-on-one call if not cool you can
44:35still join in the future but you're not
44:37going to get that one-on-one call one of
44:38the things we've we've tried as a bonus
44:40that works well is like extending a time
44:42frame especially let's say you have a
44:44three month program sometimes people are
44:46like oh I really want to join but right
44:48now isn't the best time for me I'm going
44:50on vacation next week can I join next
44:51month blah blah blah so in that case
44:53giving someone the bonus of one
44:55additional month of access as a gift
44:58um is a really nice bonus and that's
45:00very effective because it overcomes the
45:02timing issue that someone might have as
45:04well a lot of people ask oh Mariah do
45:06you do like pricing in you know do you
45:09ever do a discount if you join in the
45:10first seven days and then after that for
45:12high ticket no for low ticket courses
45:15yes we definitely have done that type of
45:17thing where it's like oh you have seven
45:18days to get the course for 500 and then
45:21it's 600 after that we don't do that for
45:23high ticket because for high ticket the
45:25pricing is already like a big component
45:28of the decision I don't really want to
45:30introduce more variables around the
45:33price being an objective or an objection
45:35so I just kind of want to be like this
45:38is the price but maybe there's a bonus
45:40that expires or some special access or
45:43something like that then it's really
45:44about finding the incentive that's going
45:47to work best for your audience is really
45:49going to be unique to each business and
45:51brand you've you've mentioned that you
45:54don't make a ton of content in that in
45:56fact you don't love making like a bunch
45:58of free content I should say like where
45:59you're like hey I'm just gonna be a
46:02public loudmouth on Twitter the way I am
46:03how do you get people into your world so
46:07consistently to make this such a
46:09profitable successful program when we
46:12switch to high ticket
46:14I kind of stopped
46:20I don't know if all these like freebies
46:23and free blog posts are going to attract
46:26the same client who's buying like our
46:29500 courses before that we now wanna
46:32we're attracting ten or twenty thousand
46:34dollar clients how does our content
46:37marketing and our marketing need to
46:38shift in order to shift with that and so
46:42it no longer became volume like volume
46:45is not our was not our thing anymore I
46:47literally eliminated the need for like
46:50high volume list building and audience
46:52growth I was like I don't really want to
46:54do that and so by going high ticket it's
46:56like okay now you only need small small
46:58amount of clients for it to be very
47:00successful and to meet your goals and
47:03you're serving them a much higher level
47:04so I kind of eliminated the need for
47:07volume which eliminated the need for a
47:09lot of these like common content
47:11marketing sort of strategies and so what
47:13what we shifted to well we started
47:15running ads we finally like figured out
47:18ads and this was in like
47:212019 we started running ads successfully
47:24after years and years of failing
47:25miserably at running ads you kind of hit
47:27a moment too I not everyone but for me I
47:30hit a moment where I was like I have Arc
47:33I have hundreds of Articles and videos
47:35and podcasts like an archive a body of
47:38work that like I don't need to create
47:41anymore there's no need for me to say
47:43more I just need more eyeballs to find
47:46this and that's where ADS came in for us
47:49that was one of the ways and then we
47:51started doing in 2020 literally just
47:54because of covid we had to pick we used
47:57to do in-person events and they were
48:00really small it was like 20 people you
48:01know small in-person events and in 2020
48:04we were forced to cancel all the events
48:06and we had to bring them online and in
48:10that process we like accidentally
48:13discovered this huge thing for our
48:16business which became like this huge
48:18lead generator for us of selling you
48:21know twenty to forty dollar tickets to
48:23these virtual events we would get
48:24thousands of people to show up and sign
48:26up and buy tickets and that became a
48:30huge like lead generator for us and then
48:32we took the recordings of those events
48:34and we put them on Evergreen and then it
48:36became so what we talked about at the
48:37beginning with like oh maybe you're
48:39seeing people with their like low ticket
48:41lead generator offers that's what we did
48:44we did these big virtual events with
48:46like forty dollars for a ticket hundreds
48:48or thousands of people would sign up
48:50huge for lead gen for us and then turn
48:53around to put those recordings out on
48:55Evergreen we could keep buying them for
48:5730 or 40 dollars for the recordings and
49:00that would bring in people all the time
49:02as well so it's I don't do like free we
49:06a little bit this year we dabbled for
49:08like two months we like dabbled in free
49:10content again and then immediately I was
49:11like nope nope nope nope I'm not doing
49:13this so yeah we basically do these like
49:16low very low ticket but very accessibly
49:19priced
49:20um virtual events or Evergreen offers
49:23that are like I said even 10 or 20
49:25dollars to me is better than free so
49:28yeah I just can't I can't keep up with
49:30doing anything like consistently or
49:32weekly I love a good sales conversation
49:34and in this episode Mariah really
49:36delivered if you want to learn more
49:38about Mariah and the high ticket hybrid
49:39you can visit her website at
49:42fearlessceo.com a link to that is in the
49:44show notes thanks to Mariah for being on
49:46the show thank you to Conor economy for
49:47editing this episode and Brian skeele
49:49for creating our music thank you to
49:51Emily Klaus for our artwork and Nathan
49:52townhunter for mixing the audio if you
49:54love this episode you can tweet at J
49:56Klaus and let me know if you really want
49:58to say thank you please leave a review
49:59on Apple podcast or Spotify thanks for
50:01listening and I'll talk to you next week

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