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He Went From $0 to $100M in 11 Months — And You're Still "Planning" — Transcript

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0:00We have about 1,500 ads. We started from
0:02like 50 ads maybe 13 months ago. Right
0:04now we're spending 150 grand a day, but
0:06we want to spend like 200, 300,000 a
0:08day.
0:08>> Danny Young is the founder of IM-A who
0:11grew up from zero to a 100 million
0:13annual run rate in under 1 year and
0:15landing partnerships with David Beckham
0:17and Aryna Sabalenka.
0:18>> I think individuals create their own
0:20luck. If you have the will and
0:22motivation, anyone can figure out
0:24anything. Indeed to see speed wins and
0:26nobody is faster than Danny. I'm very on
0:29all the time.
0:29>> Fair.
0:30>> Not everyone wants that. Some
0:32individuals they just want comfort.
0:34That's not the right individual for our
0:35company. You have to select people that
0:38have this ambitious wolf mindset.
0:40Otherwise, even one person you'll slow
0:42everyone down.
0:51>> So you went from zero to a 100
0:53million-dollar annual run rate in under
0:55a year. That's unheard of.
0:58Obviously it's on the back of a lot of
0:59marketing. Let's start there. What's
1:01your marketing mix with IM-A?
1:03>> Majority right now is Meta and Google,
1:04right? So roughly about 85% on Meta, 15%
1:07on Google. Yeah, so it's been very
1:09consistent from day one on that and
1:11because we feel there's still a lot of
1:12upside for us to spend. However, with
1:14that being said, this quarter we're
1:15actually expanding into new channels as
1:17well, right? We're expanding into more
1:18podcasts, YouTube. We're going to be
1:20exploring with AppLovin as well. So
1:22these are all and of course TikTok.
1:23Yeah, so but all these channels are all
1:25going to be new to us.
1:27>> It's so crazy the amount of scale that
1:29you can get through just Meta. I think
1:31people like highly underestimate how
1:32much scale is just there.
1:34It's insane. And for the people
1:36listening to we're going to get into it
1:37further as we get into the podcast. You
1:38guys have amazing strategic
1:40partnerships. Beckham, Sabalenka, we're
1:42going to get into more of those.
1:43Obviously that helps the top of the
1:45funnel on the efficiencies in in
1:47marketing. What about the team? I think
1:49that's like for me the most interesting
1:51thing.
1:52The
1:53aggressive scale. What does the team
1:55look like on like the media and content
1:57side? Is it in-house? Is it agencies?
1:59>> Yeah, so it's majority in-house. I think
2:01if you look back at my career, I've
2:02always had strong teams, but you know,
2:05to be fair, I have a very founder-led
2:07approach. So, we limit a lot of back and
2:09forth and decision-making. So, I'm
2:12involved in a lot of different
2:13decisions, right? So, I keep myself very
2:16very busy from day to night. Yeah, and
2:17then that makes everything we do able to
2:20scale so much faster. And because the
2:22problem is a lot of times if you have
2:24whatever people 5 6 7 8 people or even
2:26more than that, your decision-making
2:28process tends to be much longer than
2:31necessary cuz everyone's talking and
2:34discussing what should we do, right?
2:35Because also at the end of the day, I
2:37have so much I would say also knowledge
2:40and experience within what has a high
2:43probability of success, so I can cut
2:46through a lot of that noise and just
2:47make good decisions most of the time.
2:49>> The wildest thing is the best
2:51entrepreneurs, no matter what scale
2:52they're at, they are still deeply in the
2:54weeds.
2:55>> Yeah. And you are definitely most still
2:57in the weeds. Very in the weeds, yeah.
2:59>> You understand and know everything
3:00that's going on. So, um we're going to
3:01say this one slow for the people out
3:02there watching.
3:04I checked your Facebook creative.
3:08How much creative do you guys have
3:09running right now in your Facebook
3:10account?
3:10>> We have about 1,500 ads. Yeah, and
3:12again, we started from like 50 ads,
3:14right? Like maybe 13 months ago. So,
3:15that's what we're consistently putting
3:16out the output. And this is so important
3:18especially for Meta, right? With the
3:19creative diversity that you need to
3:21constantly put new content out, but not
3:24just new content, but good content,
3:26right? Otherwise, you won't want to
3:27spend whatever it is. Right now, we're
3:28spending yeah, upwards about 150 grand a
3:32day total marketing.
3:34Mhm.
3:34>> You're spending like $100,000 a day on
3:36Meta alone.
3:36>> Yeah, correct. Yeah.
3:37>> Wow. And that feedback loop as far as
3:40the content goes, it's just every single
3:43day all day testing testing testing
3:44cutting and using internal team and
3:47external team.
3:47>> Yes.
3:48>> Yeah.
3:49Makes sense.
3:49>> But we want to spend like 200 once and
3:51300,000 a day, right? And by then, of
3:53course, to be able to do that, we can't
3:55yet until we get more and more content,
3:57more great content as well.
3:59>> Yeah, I think this all backs into you
4:01guys have a great subscription model.
4:02We're going to get deeper into it. And
4:04you guys have the ability I mean, your
4:06whole entire business is really just CAC
4:09to LTV. Everything is based on a
4:10subscription. So, you can push as hard
4:11as CAC to LTV allows you to do it. How
4:13do you look at CAC to LTV? What is your
4:16ballpark CAC to LTV that you're
4:17comfortable sharing with everybody out
4:18there listening?
4:19>> Correct. Right now,
4:20I don't know when we look at CAC to LTV,
4:21the other metrics that is very
4:22interesting for us that we also look at
4:24on a daily basis is the payback period,
4:26right? Basically, how long it takes us
4:29for us to recoup that CAC, right? So,
4:32when we think about a CAC and LTV, we'll
4:33look at it from a 24-month horizon. So,
4:35right now we're targeting roughly about
4:373 to 3.5 on a CAC to LTV ratio, right?
4:40And then, so we're right at there.
4:42>> For people out there listening, that is
4:43a world-class number, 3 to 3.5. And from
4:46a a payback period, you guys are right
4:48in that range as well, too.
4:49>> Yeah, our payback period right now is
4:50actually under 4 months. Yeah, so under
4:534 months on a blended basis, even so cuz
4:55right now we actually have approximately
4:57uh three different SKUs, right? We have
4:58our daily ultimate essentials out,
5:00longevity product, and our back on stat,
5:02which is a combination of essentials and
5:04longevity. Yeah, so on a blended wise,
5:06it's less than 4 months. So, that also
5:08gives us significant confidence that we
5:10can scale this quite aggressively,
5:13right? Cuz I'm sure DTC wise, if you're
5:15at 3 to 4 months, you're probably at
5:17like excellent range. 6 months, you're
5:19good. 12 months, you're like, yeah,
5:20you're like at a you're like a C minus,
5:22right?
5:23>> Yeah, I mean, if you think about the
5:24companies, they've semi put stuff out
5:26there, like Groom is an example. I mean,
5:28people are more in the 6 to 12-month
5:29range. That's I would say that's
5:31world-class, anything under 4 months.
5:32>> Yeah, mhm.
5:33>> And that just allows you to continuously
5:35uh push.
5:35>> Yeah, as I continuously push. Correct.
5:37>> I would say that you guys almost are too
5:39efficient in the sense that you can push
5:40that harder to even to 6 months and
5:42still be highly profitable, right?
5:43>> Yes.
5:43>> Yeah.
5:44It's a good good problem to have. What
5:46about content systems? If you're putting
5:48out thousands and thousands of ads on
5:50the back end, how do you drive that
5:52flywheel?
5:53>> A lot of the push that we're doing now
5:55is with statics. A lot of the statics
5:57that we push out, again, we're using a
5:58lot of AI to be able to drive that.
6:00Videos, I think, is still almost there,
6:03but all the video content we do is
6:05actually real right now. Yeah, but of
6:07course we we augment that essentially
6:09with a combination of statics and
6:11videos.
6:11>> It's so crazy to say because our company
6:13actually over-indexed on videos, and
6:15obviously it's a way heavier lift
6:17>> even with AI.
6:18>> Yes.
6:18>> But we've actually flipped it, and we're
6:20about 75% statics, and we're seeing way,
6:23way more success. I actually think
6:25people underestimate the simple statics,
6:27that those are still working.
6:28>> Mhm.
6:29>> And you guys obviously have I mean, from
6:30a static perspective, you can just sell
6:32on just value props of the product. You
6:34can be very simple, like direct response
6:36on that.
6:37>> Correct. I I I agree. Right now, statics
6:39are I mean, it's just from
6:40production-wise speed, it's so efficient
6:43right now, right? However, I do believe
6:44right now we're actually making more
6:46investments in terms how do we scale the
6:47video portion of it, because the
6:49challenge what I see is that yeah, you
6:51have so many companies now that are make
6:53that the static on the AI is going to be
6:56so easy, right? It's going to It's going
6:57to be like a commodity, right? So, if
6:59everyone's going to commodity, then how
7:01do you do be able to differentiate
7:02against everyone else? And that's where
7:05the video and authenticity is going to
7:07play a big, big factor later on, right?
7:09So, in terms of real people, real
7:11stories, I think this in the next 3 to 6
7:14months is all going to come to fruition.
7:16>> Yeah, I mean, it's also just about brand
7:17positioning. I love the fact that you
7:19guys are red, and we're not going to
7:21talk about Athletic Greens today, but
7:22when you look at that kind of product
7:23category, you think green, and then you
7:25guys are red, so you get that contrast.
7:26And then obviously, the celebrity
7:28partnerships, you guys can lean on that
7:30all day long. I would The first thing
7:32that I was going to ask when you said
7:3380-85% on Meta was platform risk. So,
7:36what are those other categories you
7:37briefly mentioned it? Where are you guys
7:39looking to go to next?
7:41>> Yeah. Yeah, Clark, I mean, you mentioned
7:43even with 80-85% meta, I think we still
7:45have much more upside to do on meta
7:47before we're actually saturated, right?
7:49We at least have another, I would say, a
7:5124-36 months even before we hit ceiling
7:54on meta, but the other platforms that we
7:56want to go into is again, YouTube, more
7:59podcasts. We haven't done much of
8:00YouTube or podcast. AppLoving, again, we
8:03have heard a lot of great great stories
8:05on there, and of course, TikTok, right?
8:06So, we haven't even experimented with
8:08all any of these channels, and we're
8:10able to do what we've been able to do
8:11with the revenue wise and growth.
8:13>> Yeah, excited to see how that works out.
8:14Where uh
8:16I would say like this new emerging
8:17channel, I would say, is AppLoving is
8:19one of them, and a lot of people are
8:20going to CTV. Those are two kind of ones
8:23that I'm hearing about more and more. I
8:24think last year was the AppLoving year.
8:26I think this year is going to be a lot
8:27about CTV. That's another big one.
8:29>> Yeah, and we also Yeah, same. We haven't
8:30even experimented with that yet, right?
8:31So, that that's what always gives us so
8:33much confidence in terms of, hey, where
8:35we're at and what what growth
8:36opportunities we have.
8:38>> Makes sense. On the retention side, the
8:40CAC, LTV, payback period, I mean, among
8:43other things, I really think that you
8:44guys are in the subscription and
8:46retention game.
8:47>> Yes.
8:47>> What are some of the those other big
8:49initiatives on the retention side? What
8:51are you guys doing to make it as sticky
8:53as possible for people to stay?
8:55>> Yeah, great great question. Again, yeah,
8:57that's something that we've been
8:58thinking quite hard about even the last
9:003 months or so, right? Yeah, because the
9:02first, I would say, the first, yeah, 9
9:03to 12 months of the initial brand was
9:06really just about customer acquisition,
9:08right? And then so, that's how we
9:09thought about it cuz at the end of the
9:10day, we can't do so much well at the
9:13same time, yeah? But then the last 3
9:15months, a big big focus has been on
9:17retention. And then so, one thing that
9:19we actually just started within the last
9:2145 days is actually introduced a 3-month
9:23subscription program. And then so, we
9:25started this in the US last month, and
9:28then we actually seen significant
9:30success with that because what we did is
9:32the for example, in the US, our one-time
9:34purchase is 112, 1 month is 89, 3 months
9:39is basically 78 a month but you pay 235
9:41up front, right? And then we deliver
9:43basically 3 months at one time, so that
9:45means we can also recognize the revenue
9:47at once and get given that we're a
9:49public company, that's also quite
9:50important, right? But we also just
9:52deliver one time, so we save on
9:53logistics, the customer also saves,
9:56right? So that's a great benefit because
9:58when you do uh for consumers, a 3
10:01months, that means they give ample time
10:03for the product to work.
10:05All right? And when you give it a
10:06routine, it's also really important
10:08because when you're on routine wise, 30,
10:1040, 60, 90 days, it becomes part of your
10:13daily habit, right? So we believe that's
10:15going to have a big big upside on the
10:16retention piece and given the success of
10:18that, we rolled this out internationally
10:21early this month and now we've seen
10:23actually more than 50% of individuals
10:26that are purchasing are purchasing 3
10:28month subscriptions.
10:29>> I want to stop you there for a second
10:30cuz there's so much juice squeezed into
10:33that. I love what you guys are doing.
10:34First,
10:35it's an AOV game. You guys are you guys
10:36are driving up your AOV. B, your unit
10:39economics as the producer is
10:40significantly better cuz you're saving
10:41on shipping. And then C, you're
10:44delivering
10:46insane value to the customer on a per
10:47month perspective. They're getting a
10:48discount. And then D, you said something
10:50very interesting there and I think we
10:52were talking off camera about my
10:53company. It's a want, not a need and
10:56then this you said habitualization is
10:59that's an important part of your
11:00product, too, is allowing yourself
11:02enough runway for people to continue to
11:05try it so they actually see the
11:06benefits. Some of these other ones where
11:08if it's like if it's like 1 month, they
11:09might try it 5, 10, 15 times and it's
11:11not enough to actually see results.
11:14I love that strategy.
11:15>> Yeah. And then again, everyone's
11:16different, right? Some people see
11:17results in like 3 days, right? Some in 7
11:19days, some 14, 30, 60, 90 days and we
11:22ran clinical trials on this as well for
11:24individuals that have taken it for 90
11:26days and this was done via San Francisco
11:28Research Institute. 95% of individuals
11:31that took it after 90 days felt
11:33noticeable difference in energy levels,
11:3585% better gut health, 80% slept better,
11:3875% have sharper cognitive performance,
11:42right? So, 90 days is kind of like the
11:44key time period where majority of people
11:47feel that difference, yeah? But, one
11:49thing that we've also done with the
11:5090-day programs, again, not just offer a
11:52discount, we always try to give value to
11:55that consumer, right? A why do you want
11:57to pay 90 days? Because it's actually
11:58quite significant. You're paying Right
12:00now, our AOV since we've introduced this
12:0390-day program is $280 globally.
12:05>> That's insane.
12:06>> Right? And then, for individuals that
12:08buy the Beckham stack, they're paying
12:09$500 up front.
12:11All right, so, for a 3-month period,
12:13right? So, it's quite a lot,
12:15yeah, at least in the DTC world, right?
12:17>> We are in so early though that you still
12:18haven't even seen a long tail. That's
12:19like you just introduced this, so
12:21>> Correct.
12:21>> people aren't even on the resale yet.
12:22We're in early.
12:23>> Yeah, we're in early.
12:24>> Yeah.
12:24>> And then, one thing that we've been able
12:25to do is create value, and one key I
12:28would say USP about I Am Aim is we've
12:31have an amazing team of scientific
12:33advisory board members as well as
12:35performance trainers, right? So, these
12:37are the likes of Dr. Don from Mayo
12:38Clinic. We also got Bobby Rich, David
12:40Beckham's trainer. So, these
12:42individuals, what we provide on the
12:4490-day program, we give access to
12:47individuals that subscribe to quarterly
12:49master classes where you can go on Zoom,
12:52talk to them live, ask questions, and
12:55they'll be providing insights in terms
12:57like, what's it like to train David
12:58Beckham, right? How does Dr. Don, she's
13:00a integrative oncologist at Mayo Clinic
13:02for 25 years. What has she seen that
13:05gives you basically hope to live a
13:07healthy life, right? So, we give access
13:09to nine of our scientific advisory board
13:11members and doctors, so you can access
13:14to them on a quarterly basis. So, I
13:16think that's ultimately providing value
13:17to that consumer.
13:19>> That's insane. I've never heard of
13:20anything like that. That's like you're
13:21that's an irresistible offer at that
13:22point.
13:23>> Yeah.
13:24>> I don't know any other brand that's ever
13:25you that. You're combining So, you're
13:26just you're driving the AOV with a
13:28subscription and just giving them
13:29access, digital access to all these
13:31people.
13:31>> Yeah, digital access, correct, right?
13:32>> And then so that's something that we're
13:33exploring right now is like, how do we
13:35even basically give more access? Right
13:36now it's starting with a Zoom, right? So
13:38we just started this like a few weeks
13:39ago, right? And then later on it's like,
13:41how do we provide more access in digital
13:43format as well? So you can log in, you
13:46can talk to these individuals and get
13:48real feedback basically by coming on
13:50board, right? Because at the end of the
13:51day, we don't want to just sell our
13:53product, it's about the lifestyle, the
13:54community, but how do we enrich people
13:57with knowledge?
13:59>> That's a great idea. For people out
14:00there listening, definitely if you have
14:02a hard product, ideate on what type of
14:04leverage and access to humans in the
14:06marketplace that you have to then give
14:08that access to your ICP. I love that
14:10idea. I've never heard that idea. I
14:11think that's going to work in spades.
14:13And since you have so many celebrity
14:14partners, too, you can start doing maybe
14:17somebody, you know, enters to win to
14:18meet David Beckham for dinner or go play
14:20a tennis match with Sabalenka.
14:22>> Oh, well, we did that already.
14:23>> You did that already?
14:23>> Yeah, we did that like basically the
14:25last month, right? We did that. We had a
14:27golden ticket to Dubai. So basically we
14:30had a lucky draw in which basically we
14:32invited two lucky winners, airfare,
14:34hotels, etc., backstage access, meet
14:37with Aryna Sabalenka when we did the
14:39Battle of the Sexes event in Dubai with
14:41Nick Kyrgios, right? So that was a very
14:43special unique opportunity, right? Just
14:45to do that. So that allows us access It
14:47gives individual access where they
14:49normally wouldn't be able to access,
14:51right?
14:52>> I want to talk about some of these
14:53partnerships cuz we're just kind of
14:54glazing over these these massive names.
14:56Sabalenka's number one tennis player in
14:57the world. Beckham is icon. Let's rewind
15:00to that night. It's summer 2023.
15:03You're at dinner with Beckham.
15:05What happened?
15:06>> Yeah, let me just give you a backstory
15:07on that, right? And then
15:09interesting thing is like a lot of this
15:10stuff it just happened organically,
15:13which is quite crazy to say, right? And
15:15even before
15:16you had the dinner with Beckham, it was
15:18I was having another dinner with my
15:19other good friend and just through my
15:21entrepreneurial network, right? And
15:22business network, good friend Michelle
15:24Lamarre. He has a big media and
15:26lifestyle events company in Asia and
15:28then yeah, he knows me and Beckham quite
15:30closely. And then I was having dinner
15:32with him and so I he's like, "Hey, what
15:33what are you doing?" He's like, "Ah,
15:34he's going to go to you meet David in
15:36London in a few weeks." He's like, "Do
15:37you want to join?" And then I was like,
15:39"Are you sure?" Right? He's like,
15:40"Yeah."
15:41Cuz you you never know if he's kidding
15:42or not, right? He's like, "Yeah, sure."
15:44And then he's like, "Oh, then like the
15:46next day he texted me. He's like, "Oh,
15:47you're you're you're you're confirmed,
15:48man." And then I was like, "Okay, let's
15:49go." And at that time, to be fair, I
15:52didn't really have an agenda because you
15:54wouldn't really think about pitching
15:56David this, right? But once we started
15:58talking etc. I think he was very
16:00intrigued
16:01um about my background cuz as I share my
16:03background what is uh is interesting cuz
16:06I had the consumer background, the
16:07e-commerce background, and then the last
16:1011 years were running Prenetics and
16:12co-founding Prenetics was life sciences.
16:14So, the combination of the consumer and
16:16the life sciences, I think that really
16:18resonated with David cuz for David
16:21reputational risk was the key thing for
16:23him, right? If he puts his name on a
16:26product, no one's going to go after
16:28Danny, right? Everyone's going to go
16:30after David, right?
16:31>> 100%.
16:32>> And then so I think that was key to him
16:34and then I think also another key factor
16:37for David, he was like, "So many people,
16:39big brands, very influential individuals
16:42have went to him, 'Hey, let's do a
16:43supplement brand together.'" He's
16:45rejected for the last 30 years.
16:47Right? And then so And then one of the
16:49key things I said to him is like, "If we
16:51do this together,
16:53the brand also has to live beyond him.
16:56It's not just going to be another
16:57celebrity brand." The key thing because
16:59at the end of the day, if people may be
17:01interested at first, but if the product
17:03doesn't work and feel great for
17:05individuals, it's not going to have that
17:06sustaining power, right?
17:08>> Stand-alone.
17:08>> Stand-alone power. And so he was also
17:10very bought in by that because a lot of
17:12times these celebrities they they a lot
17:14of people they want to make it just
17:15about the celebrity brand.
17:17And then I think for him it's like he
17:18knew if he did this it's going to be
17:20much bigger than even him. Right? So I
17:22think we're looking at this from
17:24like a 5, 10, 15, 20-year horizon, and
17:27that's how we thought about this from
17:28day one. And
17:30the challenge in the supplement industry
17:31is like a lot of people they're looking
17:33at this very short-term. Right? So
17:36they're not making the proper
17:37investments early on from a science
17:40perspective, the testing, clinical
17:42trials, because this industry is
17:45unregulated.
17:47Right? So people tomorrow can just say
17:49talk to manufacturing and get going like
17:502 weeks, right?
17:51>> Literally.
17:52>> Literally. Literally, yeah. You get to
17:54something going, right? But then you can
17:55do that and you may even have success,
17:58but I don't believe you'll have
18:00long-term success.
18:02>> Yeah, I feel like it's table stakes now.
18:04You've had a couple of guests on that
18:05are in and around the space. Like being
18:07NSF certified, having clinical trials,
18:10and having a long purview on it's going
18:12to take a long time to build this brand
18:13and we want to be slow and steady and
18:15incremental. I feel like if you don't
18:16have a long-term lens and have that, you
18:18have no chance moving forward.
18:20>> It's got to be better for you and it has
18:21to be proven
18:22with clinical trials.
18:23>> Yes.
18:24>> Yeah, your website when I was on it, it
18:25was a great blend of transparency,
18:29direct response, but then also brand.
18:31And And David had a lot of rich content
18:34on there. He had some great
18:35storytelling, not only on the science
18:37side, but like him personally. Someone
18:39like him, is he an investor in the
18:41company? And what are the big things
18:42that he brings to the table outside of
18:43just his general likeness?
18:45>> Yeah, great. So you I mean basically
18:46he's a a co-founding partner in the
18:48brand, right? So of course he has equity
18:50in Pre Genetics, the parent company,
18:52which is listed on the NASDAQ. So that
18:54he has that from day one, right? And
18:55then so what he brings to the table,
18:57again, such strategic insights on the
18:59brand even
19:01to be fair when we came up with the
19:03initial product, it was David's initial,
19:06I would say, issue with supplements. He
19:08also felt was very overwhelming. And
19:10that he himself was taking a dozen, 12
19:1213 14 15 supplements on a daily basis
19:15him and Victoria both but when they're
19:17traveling is very difficult to maintain
19:20that routine.
19:21And then so we're like a there must be a
19:23better way and so that's where we came
19:25up with daily ultimate essentials which
19:27again the USP for us is that one drink
19:30you mix it with powder and water it
19:32takes care of 16 different supplements
19:34and it tastes as good and then that was
19:35also key from David perspective say hey
19:38I don't care how great the formulation
19:40is but it also needs to taste good.
19:42Number one by default needs to be great
19:44from a scientific perspective but it
19:46also needs to taste good and the brand
19:48also has to be there right so we
19:50actually speak to his team on a weekly
19:52basis from
19:53Yeah so they're highly involved in the
19:55whole process right so many people real
19:57don't realize that but on a weekly basis
20:00we have weekly calls with their team
20:02going over our progress development
20:04what's to come and cetera so he adds a
20:06lot of value and even for our new
20:09product development yeah he has the
20:11final say in terms of taste profile so
20:13it's great in terms of such and the pro
20:15spot taste profile cuz everyone always
20:18said hey our our product tastes as
20:19amazing.
20:20>> For someone out there that knows him
20:22just as a soccer player what do you
20:24think is his superpower? What's David
20:26Beckham's superpower?
20:27>> Um
20:28yeah.
20:29>> I think
20:30he has a long term view.
20:32Right and again he's willing to take
20:34risks as well cuz to be fair when we met
20:37in the summer of 23 our
20:40yeah market cap was like 50 million
20:42bucks right which is
20:44yeah not great right?
20:45>> Right as we're going to get into it it
20:46was as high as a billion dollars down to
20:4850 now we're almost at 300 congrats.
20:50>> Right right so we were at we're at
20:52billion dollars when we met was at 50
20:53million so it was going down at that
20:55time right and then now we're like 350
20:58million market cap right and the reason
21:00I think he's willing to take risks and
21:01make the right bets from a business
21:03perspective you've seen that even with
21:05LA Galaxy right when he came to LA
21:07Galaxy, everyone was thinking, why did
21:09he do that?
21:10>> Big multiple he got on that one. He
21:11looks like a genius on that.
21:13>> Right?
21:13>> Yeah.
21:13>> And he got a deal to get a your Miami
21:17team for $25 million. Right? And but
21:20that was a long-term view. That was like
21:22a a 7 to 10-year view. And then that $25
21:25million is like huge, right? And that
21:26now what into Miami is easily worth 1.5,
21:29maybe $2 billion, right? So, but he had
21:31the long-term view cuz I think he really
21:33bets on of course the market, yeah, and
21:36the team etc. and also people. And then
21:38he's also when I talked to him, he's
21:41always trying to provide value for his
21:43partners. And that's what is really
21:45great about him is that he wants to do
21:47the best what's for the business and
21:49from a brand and also at the end of the
21:51day, every brand that he works with, he
21:54truly believes in it.
21:56>> Yeah, and I think what you've done an
21:57absolute great job of and we're going to
21:59get into more of the partners is the
22:01positioning. The people that you're
22:02picking are two things when I think of
22:04them. They're all premium and they're
22:06all international. I think that with
22:08Beckham in the next step is Sabalenka,
22:10the number one tennis player in the
22:11world. She hits the whole entire world.
22:13How'd she come into the picture? How'd
22:14you get her?
22:15>> Yeah, I mean again, it's very organic.
22:17I'm I'm so blessed and I'm grateful for
22:19that, right? And then so, how Aryna came
22:21on board was last year, last January
22:24actually, Jason Stacy, Aryna's
22:26performance and nutrition coach, he was
22:28not happy and they were actually not
22:30happy about Aryna's supplement regime.
22:32She wasn't feeling it and then Jason
22:34started taking it in January. He cuz
22:36he's always on the outlook for new stuff
22:38or new brands and he's taking for about
22:40a month, he felt noticeably better and
22:42then he suggested to Aryna to take it
22:45and then she was on it for 3 months.
22:47And then, I'm sure you know, at that
22:49level-wise, they're measuring on the
22:51daily basis the changes in terms of the
22:54mood, energy, recovery for Aryna. And
22:57then, in May, Aryna's team reached out
23:00to myself and said, "Aryna's been taking
23:03the product for 3 months. Can we partner
23:05together?" So, it was like a very happy
23:06day, huh?
23:07>> I mean, I guess it all just comes down
23:08to product at this point. The great
23:10product gets them all in.
23:11>> Yeah, Craig, a great product gets them
23:12all in. And that's At the end of the
23:14day, we're so just so thankful for that
23:16because at the end of the day, if the
23:17product works, people will come in. And
23:20even for like Arena, I mean, athletes
23:22are are amazing because they have so
23:23many options. Everyone's trying to push
23:25them on to a product, right? And of
23:27course, they choose and they're using
23:29the product on a daily basis. Even
23:30Arena, she's using it daily. Her team of
23:32coaches are using it daily. So, if you
23:34watch Arena, every time she makes a
23:36great shot, you know, that team of
23:37coaches all wear I May caps. Yeah. I
23:40love that.
23:40>> I think a huge issue a lot of people
23:42make with these partnerships is they
23:43look at it more as like one-off deals
23:45and influencers versus deep integration.
23:48And then actually authenticity where
23:49they're power users of the product.
23:52Seems though everybody here is a power
23:53user of the product.
23:54>> Yes, 100%. And how we structure the
23:56deals is also we don't want to do
23:57anything short-term, right? So, these
23:59are minimum 3-year deals. Right? So,
24:02even with Arena, everyone else, these
24:03are minimum 3-year deals because
24:06if it's not it comes too short-term and
24:08you both sides doesn't benefit from it,
24:10right? And that's So, that means or
24:12whoever that we're dealing with, for 3
24:14years is a long term, right? Right? It's
24:16not just a 1-year thing, right? So, I
24:18think this is also very important to
24:20structure these things because it
24:22benefits both sides that we're both
24:24committed. And even for us wisely,
24:26there's a significant portion of any of
24:28these deals in equity. And which is
24:30important because just because you give
24:32them equity, to be fair, so many people
24:35given want to give them equity, they're
24:37very selective more so on the equity
24:39piece because it's not transactional.
24:42Yeah, they believe in the product, they
24:43believe in the brand, they believe in
24:46your vision for the long term. And so,
24:48that's why it works.
24:49>> Another great thing that you have done
24:51is not only equity, but some of these
24:53people are also investors. And guys, on
24:56the way in here, just hits me with an
24:58absolute bombshell of some of these
25:00massive names that he just signed
25:01partnerships with. I want to talk about
25:03a couple of those now. Tell everybody in
25:04the audience. I guess let's first start
25:06with this F1 partnership.
25:09Who'd you partner with and why?
25:10>> Yeah, so we partnered with Ollie
25:12Bearman. He's one of the youngest
25:13drivers in F1. He just has a rookie
25:16season last year, but everyone's talking
25:18about Ollie. He's just amazing young
25:20kid, 20 years old, and he has top of his
25:22game right now, so huge potential.
25:25Yeah, so very happy to partner with him,
25:27right? He's just young, always smiling,
25:29always laughing, and he has great
25:30potential ahead of him.
25:31>> That's also a great sport with a growing
25:33town. And also, like I said before, it's
25:36international.
25:36>> It's premium and it's international.
25:39>> Yeah, let's just keep Let's just keep
25:41reeling them off one by one.
25:42>> Yeah, I mean, it's been amazing like
25:44last last Yeah, three four weeks, right?
25:46So,
25:46we're also very fortunate that we just
25:48partnered with Giannis. Yeah, again, NBA
25:51superstar, literally top one top two
25:53player in the league, right? So, very
25:54excited about that partnership. And
25:56again, these are individuals that
25:57actively use the product. So, that
25:59becomes a much easier conversation when
26:02they they love the product, right? And
26:04then just becomes then a deal like, "How
26:06do we make this work for both sides?"
26:07Yeah?
26:08>> We're We're also going to put some
26:09prayers in. I'm going to pray to the
26:10gods for you that he gets traded to New
26:12York. Cuz if he goes to New York, then
26:15the town widens even more. You get even
26:16bigger.
26:17>> Yeah, exactly, right? So, I think
26:18there's a lot of talk on that, yeah? So,
26:20I think yeah, we're just happy to be
26:21able to partner with world-class
26:23athletes.
26:24>> If you had to distill still down to one
26:26thing, what do you think is the one key
26:27thing that you do to close these
26:29partnerships?
26:30>> Um I think at the end of the day it's
26:32it's authenticity, right? So, I meet
26:34with them on a one-on-one basis and I
26:36share the journey, the story. Uh I don't
26:39just hand this off to other people,
26:41right? So, cuz it's quite delicate when
26:43you're dealing with people of this
26:45magnitude. Um and we meet, we talk, we
26:48share the vision, the story, and at the
26:50end of the day it has to work for both
26:52sides. So,
26:53yeah, the deal, the structure, and
26:55everyone sees upside and again building
26:58something for the long term, right? So,
27:00I think that's the key thing.
27:01>> Yeah, and with that being said, that's
27:02where like equity comes into play. Like
27:04if you're just compensating them with
27:05dollars and it's short term, they're not
27:06going to do that.
27:07>> Yes, it's going to be all direct
27:08response, hard ads. And I think now more
27:11than ever, I mean, people just see right
27:12through that. I completely agree.
27:14>> I would say the linchpin of all of this,
27:16of all these partnerships, I truly do
27:18believe is content. When I went to the
27:20website, the stuff with Deva was very,
27:21very impressive.
27:22You had an ad with Sabalenka,
27:25a piece of content with Sabalenka that
27:26got over 200 million views and it was
27:29created with AI.
27:30>> Yeah.
27:31>> Walk me through that process. How did
27:32that happen? What did you do? Tell Tell
27:34us everything.
27:35>> So, my thought process is giving me my
27:37my thought process in terms of speed,
27:39right? As well, right? So, I think it
27:41was last year, I think it was like maybe
27:44August, right? August time frame cuz we
27:47ran that ad in September. I was on
27:49Instagram. I saw this amazing AI ad. I
27:52was like, "Wow, this is a crazy AI ad."
27:54And then it's just basically I was like,
27:55"Who made this ad?" And then it's a
27:56message to their agency, right? And then
27:58he got back, we got on a call. We're
28:00like, "Hey, can we do an AI video,
28:01etc.?" Yeah, cuz I think what I seen was
28:03like really amazing. And then we did it,
28:06right? And then so basically the AI
28:07video cost us 25 grand and then we put
28:09it out basically in like 3 to 4 weeks.
28:12And you saw the ad. I mean, we were so
28:14surprised at the velocity of how fast it
28:17took off.
28:17>> You would never expect it would get 200
28:19million views.
28:20>> I mean, we didn't get like 2, 3 million
28:21views and again it was more of like a
28:23test. Yeah, but I think when we pushed
28:25it out, Arena shared it as well.
28:27Is that
28:29I think the algorithms that saw that and
28:30saw like, "Wow, this is a really great
28:32ad." cuz we had it looked very
28:33realistic, but from day one we also
28:35mentioned in our video this was driven
28:38by AI. So, very transparent that whole
28:40process. And then in the first day it
28:41got like 20 million views.
28:42>> I think that's the key is that you were
28:44transparent with what you did and it
28:45created a lot of Twitter chatter in the
28:47comments, and I think it gave people
28:49like agency that this is okay to do. You
28:51were very early with that one.
28:53>> Yeah, we launched it like September of
28:55last year, right?
28:56>> Yeah.
28:56>> Yeah, and then again, that was right
28:57before the US Open as well. So, the
28:59timing also had a lot to do with it, I
29:01think. Yeah, cuz of course we know won
29:03the US Open. Then we played in Times
29:05Square on the big digital billboard. I
29:07think got a lot of traction during the
29:08right time.
29:09>> We're going to pop that up for everybody
29:11to to watch and listen to that ad.
29:13>> Yeah, it's like 50 seconds, but that's
29:14like I don't know one of the most viewed
29:17social ads of all 2025.
29:19>> It's sleek. I love it. I want to do a
29:21quick shout-out to my friend Zach that
29:22owns an app that I am a power user of.
29:24It's called Outer Signal. In short,
29:26every time a celebrity influencer or
29:28founder buys from my store, I get a
29:29Slack message with all their details.
29:31You can flag any specific group and turn
29:33that order into a partnership, a brand
29:36moment, a gifting opportunity, even a
29:37podcast guest, anything you want. They
29:39have a ton of tools on how you can use
29:41that data. Check them out below, link in
29:43the description, and thank me later.
29:45Enjoy the episode.
29:48What about AI in general? Walk me
29:49through how you use that. Strategy,
29:51operations, customer service. I know
29:53you're ahead of the curve, so give us
29:54give us some free game on that.
29:56>> Yeah, I mean, I was very I would say
29:58very early in terms of the adoption of
30:00AI just from a usage perspective even
30:02for myself, right? I I use it like
30:05literally two to three hours on a daily
30:07basis. Yeah, for everything I use it on,
30:10right? Like literally. So,
30:12yeah, even when you know, ChatGPT first
30:14came out a few years ago, very early on.
30:16I think key thing for me, to be fair, my
30:19team knows that they basically I tell
30:21the team literally everyone moving
30:24forward has to be AI native, otherwise
30:26it's going to be very, very difficult
30:28for me to justify Yeah, them
30:31their existence, basically, right?
30:33>> You said it.
30:34>> Right? So, I think it's it's very
30:36important as a founder to continue to be
30:39updated in terms of all these new
30:40innovations, cuz the reality is 1 week,
30:432 weeks, 3 weeks ago, if it could be
30:45irrelevant today, right? I think with
30:47the advancement of technology, all these
30:49other competitors, other brands are
30:51going to be using it, and if we're not
30:53yeah, up-to-date with these
30:54technologies, we'll be left behind,
30:56right? The same goes for our employees,
30:57right? Everyone has to basically make
30:59the use of it, because I feel like, to
31:01be fair,
31:02I've never felt like a smart guy,
31:04because I was never good in school,
31:06right? I dropped out high school, you
31:08got kicked out three high schools, so I
31:10was I would say very street smart, but
31:12now with AI tools, I mean, I literally
31:15feel very, very smart, you know?
31:17>> It's so funny. Now, now you're getting
31:18the the people with the EQ now are
31:20getting double the benefit, because IQ
31:22is going to become Everyone is going to
31:23be able to have the IQ, because they can
31:24just leverage the AI.
31:25>> Yeah, exactly. It It becomes a
31:27commodity, right? The knowledge piece
31:28becomes a commodity, because there's no
31:30way anyone can be smarter than AI,
31:32right? Because the AI is taking
31:34knowledge from around the world, where
31:35individuals, they're limited by their
31:37own knowledge and what they can
31:38research.
31:39Right? And then so that's going to be a
31:40commodity. So, the key thing moving
31:42forward, I'm always telling the team is
31:44hey, creativity.
31:46How do you feed that AI engine? It's
31:48going to be so critical, and it's how
31:50it's also going to come down to
31:51creativity.
31:52>> Yeah, the engineering part of it. So,
31:54you briefly touched on you had your
31:56whole team making sure they're spending
31:59any and all their excess time on AI. I
32:01want to dive a bit more into like your
32:02leadership style. So, tell us a little
32:04bit more about your leadership style and
32:07like the operating rhythm of how you run
32:09your companies. I'd love to hear that.
32:11>> Yeah, so my operating rhythm is really
32:13focused on results, right? And then
32:15speed for any company is this huge, huge
32:18advantage. Yeah, and then so I mean, you
32:20know, from my whole entrepreneurial
32:22career, right? That's been the case,
32:23right? So, this is now my I would say my
32:25fourth, fifth company started from
32:27scratch. And then if you look at my past
32:29two experiences, even again, just to
32:32background-wise, I moved from US to Hong
32:34Kong 2010, and launched an e-commerce
32:36company called uBuyiBuy, and that was
32:38then acquired by Groupon when Groupon
32:40went international. And so that was all
32:42about speed, right? Because at that time
32:43was really a land grab. So we went from
32:46like zero
32:47to you know at that time even before
32:49Groupon acquired us, we went from zero
32:52to monthly 1 million US monthly revenue
32:56like 4 to 5 months, right? And then so
32:57when they acquired us, we were already
32:59the market leader and we only had like
33:00eight people working at that time,
33:02right? For us. So that was the speed and
33:04go to market.
33:05>> Let's let's dive deeper into that. Let's
33:06get very very granular. When did you
33:08have the idea, when did you start it and
33:10when did you get to a million dollars?
33:11>> So I mean that was very interesting
33:13because I remember very specifically,
33:14right? Because it was such a pivotal
33:15moment in my career. I remember in 2010,
33:19a friend sent me a link about Groupon.
33:21And then I read a Groupon and I was like
33:23wow, this is crazy. Like they're growing
33:25like crazy, right? They just raised 950
33:27million dollars. And at that 2010 was a
33:30lot of I mean still a lot of money but
33:31at that time
33:32>> Still a lot of money today.
33:33>> but everything's relative, right? In
33:342010 they were they were one of the very
33:36early ones, right? This is even before
33:38Uber, Airbnb was just getting it
33:40started.
33:41>> Before like the big tech platforms and
33:43that stuff. So 950 now is like 10
33:46billion dollars.
33:47>> Exactly, right? I was like wow, amazing
33:48business idea. They were growing like
33:50they were already like the fastest
33:51company to hit billion dollars in
33:53revenue and blah blah blah etc, right? I
33:55was like wow, crazy. I really like the
33:57idea and always had a passion for
33:59technology. And then I was like hey, I
34:01love this idea but I can't build that
34:03same platform and compete with them in
34:05the US because they're already so big.
34:06So I was thinking where do I go? I was
34:08like hey, I've moved to Hong Kong. So
34:10within 1 month, I packed my bags,
34:13basically moved to Hong Kong. I had no
34:14e-commerce background, no network in
34:16Hong Kong. Moved to Hong Kong March 2nd
34:19on
34:20June 28th, I had a website up and
34:23running
34:24and was called youbuyibuy and then we
34:26were selling in Hong Kong and Taiwan.
34:29And the first day again it was crazy
34:30because I remember very very vividly we
34:32sold 400 vouchers on the first day. By
34:34the fourth, fifth month, we were doing 1
34:36million monthly in revenue, USD revenue.
34:39And on the sixth month, Groupon came
34:41calling and they acquired 51% of the
34:44company and then basically they acquired
34:46the rest in 2013. And at that time, we
34:50went from zero to
34:52When I left, we had about like 200
34:54million in revenue, but we were the
34:56largest e-commerce company in the region
34:58at the time, which was very early in
34:59Asia. All right? So, again, that speed
35:01was a big portion of that.
35:03>> Tell me more about that. I mean, first
35:04off, just within a month, you're moving
35:06to Hong Kong with no network.
35:08>> Yeah.
35:08>> How do you get all of those vouchers?
35:09How do you get to a million dollars?
35:11Like, tell us on the ground
35:13Let's get tactical here cuz you have no
35:15e-com background.
35:16>> Yeah, correct.
35:17>> What happened? You have to get the
35:18brands on the platform to sell. Like,
35:21what happened?
35:21>> Yeah, correct. Great you asked these
35:23questions because I can be very specific
35:24in terms of what happened, right? Yeah,
35:25so went to Hong Kong, had no background,
35:27but I knew I wanted to do the
35:29e-commerce. And of course, then I hired
35:31an agency for the website, we're
35:33involved with that part, and but then of
35:34course, then the key thing is actually
35:36getting the brands on board.
35:38Right? Because if you don't have any
35:39good brands on board, no one's going to
35:41buy from you, correct? And then when I
35:42went to the big brands, they all said no
35:44to me, right? Of course, they're like,
35:45"Hey, yeah, why why why why would I why
35:47would I work with you?" I went to
35:48Starbucks, and again, you had to do I
35:50had to do this, right? Because only I
35:51had like four, five people in the
35:52company, right? So, I went to Starbucks,
35:55you go to like some of the Asian brands,
35:57and they're like, "Yeah, we don't we
35:59don't need this, right?"
36:00And then so, what we did early on was
36:03then, "Okay, if Starbucks won't work
36:04with us, okay, we'll we'll still buy the
36:06Starbucks vouchers." All right? "We'll
36:08still buy the Starbucks at full value,
36:11yeah, and then we resell that 50% off."
36:13Right? As a customer acquisition tool.
36:15>> Wow. So, you're saying they said no, you
36:18said [ __ ] off, I'm going to buy it.
36:19>> I I didn't say [ __ ] off.
36:21>> You
36:22You said no, I'm going to buy it, and
36:24then sell it for 50% off as a way to
36:27just get new customers, and you're going
36:28to win on the LTV. So, it was just you
36:29just use it a loss leader on the CAC and
36:31then you just win on the LTV.
36:32>> want to use a loss leader on the CAC
36:34also to create brand value because we're
36:36very early, right? And then consumers
36:39and they'll see, "Oh, wow, you guys got
36:40Starbucks, right?"
36:42And Starbucks is Chris a great brand
36:44recognition, right? And then we made
36:45sure every single day we had a new deal
36:49at 12:00 a.m. Cuz even at that time
36:51e-commerce in Hong Kong was so early and
36:54everyone told me,
36:55"No one's going to go on the website at
36:5812:00 a.m. to find new deals." But I
36:59said, "Hey, if we have good deals, we
37:02create a new shopping behavior. And then
37:05even I didn't care if that voucher sold
37:07a thousand. Every 12:00 a.m. I have a
37:09new voucher on, right? So, let's create
37:10that behavior and so we had really great
37:13brands on in the beginning, but a lot of
37:14those brands in the beginning, they were
37:17basically we did this thing with buying
37:18the vouchers directly. And then of
37:20course, at the time wise, hey, I knew
37:24in the back of my mind, yeah, Starbucks
37:25will probably send us a letter, which
37:27they did. It's like, "You can't do this,
37:28right?"
37:29>> But it's like,
37:29"You probably can't resell vouchers."
37:31>> It actually says you cannot
37:33resell vouchers, right?
37:35But then at the end of the day, we were
37:37a small company, right?
37:40Yes, you're a small company and then so
37:42but at the same time it's like, "We have
37:43Starbucks." Then I can go to Peet's
37:45Coffee. It's like, "Starbucks just
37:46worked with me, right?"
37:47>> Yeah. We get a real deal from Peet's.
37:50And so, continue on there. One of the
37:51key moments even early on in giving you
37:54very granular specific details was
37:56>> I cold called this a restaurant group,
37:58Dining Concepts.
38:00And then yeah, and the the marketing
38:02director, he was really rude cuz I cold
38:04called, right? And he was like, "Don't
38:06ever call me again." And blah blah blah,
38:07he said things, swear words to me,
38:09right? And I was very like I was like,
38:11"Wow, this guy is like really mean,
38:13right?" And then I I then Googled it,
38:15"Who is the owner of this group, right?"
38:18And then I still remember his name is
38:19Sandeep. And then I cold called the
38:22actual office. And I was like, "Can I
38:23speak to Sandeep?" He was the actual
38:24owner. And I was telling him, "Hey,
38:26basically my name, my story." And he
38:28said, "Hey, Danny, just come to my
38:29office. I want to chat with you, right?"
38:32And then, I went to his office, and I
38:33told him the story. And then, he was a
38:35Again, he started from nothing, too. And
38:37then, he built like one of the biggest
38:39restaurant groups in Hong Kong. After I
38:41met with him for about 20 minutes, he
38:42was like, "You know, Danny, it's like, I
38:43don't believe your e-commerce concept
38:46will work in Hong Kong. But because you
38:48didn't give up, even though my marketing
38:50director hung up on you, I'm going to
38:52work with you and give you 20 of my
38:55restaurants."
38:56And then, and it was a real deal. So,
38:58that means his 20 restaurants was on my
39:00platform. I had basically set up the
39:02next 3-4 months, one a week with his
39:04restaurants, which was in high demand.
39:07And he was like, "Since you're so
39:07passionate about your business, I'll
39:09work with you." So, I think if you try
39:11hard enough, and you reach the right
39:13people, people will willing to help you
39:15and work with you, as long as you're
39:17young Yeah, entrepreneur.
39:19>> I feel like just being Yeah, passionate,
39:20relentless, speed. And what you said
39:23there for people out there listening to
39:24take very kind of
39:26tactical advice from it. I mean, it's
39:28the same with me with licensing. We got
39:30one license. We leveraged it as social
39:32proofing and said, "Hey, we have this
39:33license." And then, we got the other
39:34licenses. So, I just feel like
39:37this is all about leveraging and social
39:39proofing just to get to the next level
39:41and get the next vendor.
39:42>> Yeah, kind of kind of in early days,
39:44right? Because you have so you have no
39:45leverage.
39:46>> And then, at some point, you have
39:47leverage. And you have real cuz they are
39:49real customers.
39:49>> Yes, so I'm quite Yeah.
39:50>> Yeah. We're very grateful now. We have
39:52>> Yeah. That's a great point when you get
39:53to that point. When it when it actually
39:55is real.
39:55>> Yes. When you're small,
39:56you can take much bigger risks, all
39:59right? And then, as your company evolves
40:01at each stage, then it's different. And
40:03of course, right now, we're a public
40:04listed company, right? So, everything we
40:06have to do by the books, right?
40:08Everything's audited basically by
40:09Deloitte, right? So, I think now it's a
40:11very different stage. But you know, when
40:13we're younger, going on, everyone has
40:15their our all
40:16>> Well, I mean, still, regardless of where
40:18you're at, I still feel like speed is
40:19your superpower. How do you get your
40:22team to go as fast and be as ambitious
40:25as you are? What is that operating
40:27rhythm? Are you guys talking every
40:28single day and say, by the end of the
40:29week I need to get this? You guys are
40:30talking Wednesday, what did I do Monday
40:31and Tuesday? How is the How do you keep
40:33the pace? Yeah, so I think
40:35Yeah, everyone that works with me now or
40:38even in my past company is again, I'm
40:40I'm very on all the time, right? So,
40:43again, I'm involved in like every single
40:44department of the organization, right?
40:46So, that's very key. Number one, you
40:48also firstly have to start with team
40:50members
40:51that
40:52appreciate that speed, are ambitious
40:54with the growth. And again, to be honest
40:55with you, to be fair, not everyone wants
40:57that, right? Some individuals, they just
40:59want comfort, and that's not the right
41:01individual for our company. It could be
41:03for other companies, so I think you have
41:05to select people that have this
41:07ambitious and growth mindset, otherwise
41:10it doesn't work, right? Because then,
41:12when you want to tell people to push the
41:14buttons, everyone has to go, right?
41:16Otherwise, even one person, it doesn't
41:18work. It'll slow everyone down, right?
41:20>> spot that? Is there something that you
41:21do to understand and know that that
41:23person has it in them?
41:24>> I think
41:25you have to make a good judgment in
41:27terms of finding that talent, and in
41:29terms of what their ambitions are, and
41:31yeah, again, I always be very
41:33transparent. So, like even for me, I
41:34yeah, even work life I have a work life
41:36integration. There's never any
41:38boundaries, and I'm constantly I'll tell
41:41them, "Hey, you know what? I'll text you
41:42at like, you know, 12:00 a.m., 2:00
41:43a.m., 6:00 a.m. Doesn't matter, right?"
41:45And it's just so
41:47I am fully transparent in terms of how
41:50yeah, what what demands they are when
41:52you're coming in to and joining this
41:53company, all right? Of course, they'll
41:55be able to learn a lot. Again, I'm very
41:56hands-on. I I always For me, I always
41:59try to provide a lot of context. I never
42:01tell someone, "Hey, just do this, blah
42:03blah blah." I was always say, "This is
42:04the reason why." So, at the end of the
42:06day, I also want them to learn as well,
42:08right?
42:08>> So, everybody has access to you in your
42:10company.
42:10>> Yeah, everyone Everyone has access. 24/7
42:12access.
42:12>> Yeah. Easy easy.
42:13>> Right? So, I'm always on WhatsApp, etc.
42:15And that's That's very important, right?
42:17Because any
42:18a lot of times, if they don't have
42:20access, then this is where, you know,
42:22the speed gets lost.
42:24>> So,
42:25talking about this Groupon competitor,
42:27what I think is interesting about that
42:28versus what you're doing now,
42:30correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like I
42:31am A9, it's long-term. This is a life
42:34mission. It's 10, 20, 50 years.
42:38Did you intentionally go into this
42:39Groupon one under the notion that you
42:40thought Groupon was going to buy you and
42:42this was, "Hey, we can do a quick scale
42:44and get an acquisition." Were you
42:45thinking that then?
42:46>> That was in the back of my mind, but
42:48most importantly, if the business did
42:50well, I knew I had a lot of options.
42:53Right? Because the key thing is that if
42:54the business does well, then you have a
42:55lot of options, including a sale to
42:58Groupon, right? And coincidentally, that
43:00happened. Yeah. So, I'd rather be lucky
43:02than good any day.
43:04>> How How much do you think it is lucky
43:05versus good? I'm curious. You just
43:07brought it up. I was going to ask you
43:08that later. How much do you think your
43:10career is, percentage-wise, is luck
43:12versus good?
43:14>> Yeah, to be fair, I think individuals
43:16create their own luck.
43:18All right? And Yeah, if you're walking
43:20on the street, you know, nothing's going
43:21to just fall on you hit you, right?
43:22Correct? You have to be in the right
43:23position, right time, and you all also
43:25have to be able to in the position to
43:28take the right bets, you know, which
43:29could be called lucky, right? But, you
43:31know, again, I'd rather be lucky. I
43:32mean, give you another two two examples.
43:35I mean, I was a seed investor in
43:38a company called Honey, which was
43:40acquired by PayPal for 4 billion cash,
43:42right? So, I had a 300x return on that
43:45one investment, which was quite crazy,
43:48right?
43:49Um How'd that come about?
43:50And again, it was
43:52There was I had the Groupon experience,
43:55right? And then so, they were working on
43:56a internet browser widget for coupons,
44:00right? And then so, my friend introduced
44:02us, and we got along well, and so, they,
44:03you know, put a little bit money, and
44:05turned out after like, you know, I think
44:07it was like 5 6 years, 300 x return,
44:09right? On a on a 100 grand investment.
44:11So,
44:12>> Guys, you guys do the You guys do the
44:13math there. That's uh what is that? 30
44:15million?
44:15>> 30 million dollars, yeah.
44:16>> Hey.
44:17>> Right? And then
44:17>> And that was directly correlated to you
44:19being in an adjacent business, having
44:21success, and then getting the access
44:23through that.
44:23>> Right. But of course, many people didn't
44:25make that investment.
44:26>> Yeah.
44:26>> Right? Also at that time, right? And
44:28another example was
44:30in Hong Kong, I met this guy, and that's
44:33another entrepreneur, and he had
44:34previously built the world's lightest
44:36aircraft seat, and he's came to me and
44:38we were just hanging out having drinks,
44:40and then he was like, yeah, he's going
44:41to do another business. I'm like, what
44:43is it? And he's like, he's going to
44:44build a new insurance company in France.
44:47I'm like, has that been done before?
44:48He's like, no. I'm like, why do you
44:50think you can do it? He's like, blah
44:51blah blah etc. He's like, in France it's
44:53very backwards, and they need new
44:55digital insurance company. And he
44:56actually did it, and it was the first
44:58time in 17 years a new insurance company
45:00has been built. And I was a seed
45:02investor in that, and now I have a 200 x
45:05return on that. And Alan is now Europe's
45:08largest digital insurance company. It's
45:10now valued at like 4 billion dollars.
45:12Right? So, I think Those were all luck.
45:14It's like, I was meeting the right
45:15people at the right time. But you also
45:17have to be able to take advantage of
45:18that.
45:18>> Yeah, I want to dive a little bit into
45:20that, and then then we're going to get
45:21into Perionetics, where for everybody
45:23out there listening, that is the name of
45:24the Hol Co, the publicly traded company,
45:26which I am a lives underneath.
45:28When you're making these investments,
45:30what are you looking for?
45:31>> Uh to be fair, I don't do any due
45:33diligence.
45:34>> You don't do any
45:35>> due diligence.
45:35>> Yeah. Yeah, I just like the guy.
45:37>> Guys, this is this is not the first
45:39person that has had asymmetric crazy
45:41outcomes, um and they don't do due
45:43diligence. You're saying it's 100% feel
45:45on who the jockey is, who the human is.
45:46>> Yes.
45:47Right, yeah? Cuz the problem is once you
45:49do due diligence, it doesn't work.
45:51Right?
45:52Right, once you do due diligence, that's
45:53your thinking wild. It's
45:55the success ratio is going to be like 1
45:572 3%, right?
45:59Mhm, correct. Yes, so if you do really
46:01look into it, and you have to do all
46:02this stuff. Because at the end of the
46:03day,
46:05you're betting on the jockey. All right?
46:07And then that Of course, you're not
46:08always going to be right. Yeah, but if
46:10you have a good feel, good connection,
46:11etc., at least for me, it's it's, you
46:14know, worked very well for myself.
46:16>> This episode is sponsored by Poppy AI, a
46:19visual AI workspace that almost acts as
46:21a whiteboard where you can ingest in
46:24YouTube videos, podcast episodes, voice
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47:11Go to getpoppy.ai/openresidency,
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47:20change your workflow.
47:23>> I think it's the jockey and then it's
47:24the TAM, which which we're going to
47:26which we're going to get into next. So,
47:27you have this Groupon competitor that
47:29eventually gets bought by Groupon.
47:31And then it comes to the life's mission,
47:33what's next, Prenetics, which is in
47:362014-ish.
47:38Why don't you tell us about the thesis
47:39of that company and how that started cuz
47:40that comes into I made.
47:42>> Yeah, that thesis come out cuz I exited
47:44Groupon
47:46in April 24, right? So, again, at the
47:48time,
47:50I was actually thinking I was going to
47:51go into investments.
47:53All right? Just investing, etc. I had a
47:55good access. I was able to naturally
47:57investing back into community and
47:58entrepreneurs and cetera, right? And
48:00then I did that for a while, but I got
48:02quite bored already, right? Cuz then
48:04you're not in the in the weed of things,
48:05right? So I will always say I'm a very
48:08hands-on operator and I was starting to
48:09think, "Hey, what else could I do?" I
48:11just had e-commerce, blah blah blah. I
48:12didn't want to just go back to
48:13e-commerce cuz that would have been
48:15naturally the easy route and I wouldn't
48:16have learned anything new.
48:18Right? It would just be selling
48:19something else on e-commerce which
48:21which at the time would have been quite
48:23easy for me. And then again, I was in
48:25mid-30s, health started becoming a big
48:28thing that you're thinking about and and
48:29taking care of, right? I had my first
48:31daughter, so health becomes much more a
48:33priority. And then I was very intrigued
48:36by 23andMe at that time. I was just very
48:38fascinated cuz I didn't have a science
48:40background that with via saliva sample,
48:43you can learn so much about yourself,
48:45about your DNA, where you're from, your
48:47heritage, your likenesses, what you're
48:49susceptible to from a disease
48:50perspective.
48:52And in Asia, that business model did not
48:54exist.
48:55That and that swabbing of a DNA didn't
48:57exist in 2014.
48:58>> crazy. This is going back to the
48:59Groupon. You saw it winning in the US,
49:01it wasn't in Asia. It's the same thing.
49:03>> Yeah, exactly.
49:03>> saw the whole new market in a different
49:04geography.
49:05>> Correct. Yeah, and then what and I loved
49:06Hong Kong, right? So I didn't we didn't
49:08want to go back to the US, right? And
49:09then so I saw the same thing and I was
49:11like, "Hey, of course I didn't have a
49:12science background, right?" But I had
49:15again, even when I first started
49:1723andMe, looking into 23andMe, I started
49:19myself first, researching and reading
49:21lots of white papers. In terms of the
49:23technology, the science, how do they
49:26actually do it? Cuz then I need to get
49:28equipped from a knowledge perspective
49:30before I can then talk to researchers
49:32and scientists and analysts for them to
49:35come join and do this together, right?
49:37So that's what I did, I researched the
49:38industry so I can then talk at least in
49:41somewhat intelligently
49:42>> on the language
49:43>> to other language to scientists and then
49:45was able to bring them on board as the
49:47founding team to create Prenetics which
49:49the The actually comes from half
49:51prevention and genetics.
49:54So, the original thesis was 23 and me in
49:57a different region. You have the
49:58concept, you talk to scientists, you
49:59bring on three, four, five scientists,
50:01and then what?
50:02>> Uh correct. And then we started going to
50:03business, all right? So, we started uh
50:05basically selling initially again, I
50:07tested direct-to-consumer with the DNA
50:10test, actually, and just running ads and
50:12cetera. But, at time, the customer
50:14acquisition cost in Asia was way too
50:16expensive. I'm like, there's never able
50:18to be able to make a profit, all right?
50:20>> And then
50:21>> So, we we didn't go direct-to-consumer
50:23initially. So, we went to B2B2C. So, I
50:26started going out to insurance
50:27companies.
50:28>> That's that's that big money.
50:29>> Mhm.
50:29>> Yeah, large insurance companies, yeah,
50:31AIA, Prudential, cuz they have a lot
50:33millions of insured customers, right?
50:35And so, we would offer them DNA tests to
50:38their customers, and the insurance
50:39company would pay for it.
50:41All right? So, that's what we did for
50:42basically the first four, five years
50:44until COVID hit.
50:45>> And what does the unit economics of
50:46something like that look like? Is that
50:48does like a traditional wholesale model
50:49where it's it's $100, you just sell it
50:51to the insurance company for 50, or how
50:53does that go?
50:54>> Yeah, so it was uh the unit economics on
50:56that is again, the insurance companies
50:58is basically buying the test on behalf
51:01of the insured, right? So, they give
51:03they provide us a free benefit, right?
51:05When when someone buys an insurance
51:06policy, they're like, you can also get
51:08your genomic results to understand your
51:09disease risk and cetera, right? So, we
51:11just give a price basically to the
51:13insurance company, and then we have our
51:15own lab and science team, and then so
51:17basically to to produce the test.
51:20>> So, probably lower margins than
51:21traditional businesses, but huge volume.
51:23Cuz if you're working with a with an
51:24insurance company, you're a preferred
51:25vendor, and just as many patients that
51:27come in, they're going to give it to
51:28them.
51:28>> Yes. Mhm.
51:30>> I like that business. I like that that
51:31volume business. So, you're doing this
51:32for four, five years, B2B, B2B2C, not
51:35doing e-comm.
51:37COVID hits, which
51:39with every business, there's a there's a
51:40story. So, that happens, and what
51:42happens?
51:43>> Yeah, when COVID hit in yeah, of course,
51:45in March 2020, COVID hit. Hong Kong
51:48started getting the wave of COVID and
51:50cetera wise, right? And then I actually
51:52had a meeting with the chief executive
51:55of Hong Kong early March in terms of
51:57seeing a if there's something that we
51:59can do to help because we already had
52:01the laboratory, right? And again, I
52:03think actually maybe even going back
52:05before that meeting with the chief
52:06executive is that early maybe like
52:09February, people started
52:11texting me saying, "Hey Danny, do you
52:12have do you have any PCR test or COVID
52:14test?" I'm like, "No, I don't, right?"
52:16And then
52:17another person another friend texts me
52:19another person texts me. I'm like,
52:20"There's something going on here,
52:21right?" Then I started looking into it.
52:22It's why are so many people texting me
52:24about doing COVID test because of course
52:26we have the laboratory and cetera, but
52:28that means it was very difficult to get
52:30a COVID test in Hong Kong. You actually
52:31had to go to a hospital and at the same
52:33time the hospital if you want to go
52:36number one, you don't want to go to a
52:37hospital to get a COVID test, but if you
52:38did, the COVID test at the hospital was
52:40like five to six hundred dollars USD per
52:43test early on. So, I was like, "Okay,
52:45maybe there's something there." So, of
52:46course
52:47naturally you want to be able to partner
52:48with the government, right? And then so
52:50I was able to get in a meeting with the
52:51government and at the time they declined
52:53us like, "We don't need your help. We
52:55can do it on our own."
52:56>> But they were interested under the
52:57notion that you had the infrastructure
52:59and then going back like the social
53:01proofing with working with the insurance
53:02companies like you were credible.
53:03>> Correct. Exactly. We're credible, right?
53:05So, that's why they accepted the meeting
53:07in the first place, but they said like,
53:08"We don't need your help. We can manage
53:09it ourselves."
53:10>> And and then the second wave of COVID
53:11hit, huh? Like the real wave came that
53:13this shit's real.
53:14>> yeah. So, after that meeting we were
53:16like, "Okay, what do we do now, right?"
53:17Then we said, "You know what? Hey, let's
53:19just launch our own directed consumer
53:21COVID at home test." Which we did
53:23basically in three weeks later.
53:25Right? So, again, speed was quite
53:26critical on that and then we launched
53:28our own directed consumer
53:30>> there. Wait. So, how So, how do you do
53:31that? So, for in three weeks you're
53:32figuring out you're you're you're
53:33utilizing your scientists to figure out
53:35what this test looks like. Yes. You're
53:36getting a test. You're reverse reverse
53:38engineering it and then just selling it.
53:39>> Correct. Because we already had the
53:40laboratory infrastructure set up
53:42already, right? And then so it was just
53:44a matter of getting reagents yeah,
53:45inside to our laboratory. Our team
53:48already knows science of it as well, cuz
53:50you have to understand we're doing
53:52clinical genomic tests. The science on
53:54that is much more complicated than just
53:56a PCR test. Right? So, it was
53:58even easier for us, right? Just
54:00understand that part. And then so in 3
54:02weeks time, basically we already set up
54:04we basically set up the full
54:05infrastructure selling it online
54:07individually in Hong Kong. So, we're the
54:09first provider in Hong Kong to do a DTC
54:12COVID test for 100 bucks USD. And
54:16like the first day we launched, we had
54:18like 200-300 orders already. And every
54:20single day we will be sold out cuz there
54:21was capacity limits, right?
54:23>> So, the hospital was jacking up the
54:24price. The unit economics were crazy.
54:25They were
54:25>> Yeah, they were selling for like yeah,
54:27$500. We did it for 100 bucks, right?
54:29So, it was just a way to offer the
54:31community for individuals something that
54:34was good and validated.
54:36>> It's so funny that you say this again
54:37for for people listening out there. I've
54:39had this inflection point in my career
54:40multiple times is looking inward at your
54:43team, whether it be the talent of your
54:45team and or production or the
54:48distribution. What do you have and you
54:50could be serving one market, but there
54:51could be a TAM that's a million times
54:54bigger that you can take your expertise
54:56and bring it elsewhere. And it seems as
54:57though that's exactly what you're about
54:59to do. As you're seeing a massive
55:00opportunity and you're like, "Hey, we
55:02can produce this. I have the chops from
55:04a distribution perspective to know how
55:05to do e-com." And then you go.
55:07>> Yeah, correct. So, so we went. And then
55:10and so every day we're selling out and
55:11etc. And then when the second wave in
55:14July of 2020 hit, then the government
55:17came back and called me. He's like,
55:19"Hey, can you help us do something,
55:20right? Cuz the wave is getting out of
55:22control." I'm like, "Yeah, yes, we can
55:23definitely help." And then the first our
55:25first mission or task it was with the
55:27chief executive Hong Kong. He's like,
55:29"We want to test all the restaurant
55:31workers in Hong Kong." I'm like, "Okay,
55:33how many people is that?" They're like,
55:35"18,000 restaurants, 300,000 staff." All
55:39right, because Mhm.
55:40>> And this was in July 2020. And then
55:42>> This is with your laboratory with five
55:43people that you Yeah.
55:44>> Yeah, yeah. I mean, we were like 10
55:45people maybe.
55:46But then But then And then again, that
55:48was a big task, right? And they're like,
55:50"How long, you know, do we have, right?"
55:52We're like, "You have like Yeah, 6 weeks
55:54to do that." Right? So, speed was
55:55critical. And then so, we accepted the
55:58project. All right? And then basically
56:00then we went door-to-door to pass out
56:02saliva PCR kits to all the restaurant
56:05workers. And the first day and the for
56:07the first week, I went out 8 hours a day
56:09just to passing out cuz I knew I needed
56:12to show the team. I was also at
56:15a big risk because at that time there
56:16was no vaccine.
56:17All right? And then so, I went to the
56:20most high-risk places of COVID passing a
56:22PCR test. And you can see on my
56:24Instagram, it's like it's real story,
56:25right? Because
56:27>> You set the precedent to your team
56:28though.
56:28>> You have to set the precedent. I'm
56:29willing to do that. It's like everyone
56:31else should be able to do that cuz
56:32again, that goes back to the team. If
56:35everyone didn't have that motivation to
56:37just go, yeah? It doesn't work, right?
56:39So, and then we were able to do that.
56:41And
56:42>> So, you executed that.
56:43>> Yeah, we executed that. It was crazy
56:44times. We had
56:46massive hiring cuz at that time also in
56:48Hong Kong, a lot of people got laid off.
56:51Yeah, so we actually then supplied work
56:53to a lot of people that got laid off
56:55from the hospitality industry. So, it
56:57worked out to be favorable for everyone,
56:59right? And then what happened in the
57:02coming 2 3 years was then
57:05there was many vendors that happened
57:07eventually. There was like maybe 15 to
57:0816 different laboratory partners. But
57:10the crazy thing is we're the first. And
57:13then of course, the government, they
57:15have to spread the risk, right? They
57:16can't just give the contract to one
57:18person. But then what happened
57:19eventually was all the other providers,
57:22they just kept messing up. And they had
57:24like data issues, false positives, etc.,
57:27etc. So, at the time when you get a
57:29false positive in Hong Kong, you have to
57:31go to the detention center for like 7
57:33days.
57:33>> Wow.
57:34>> Right? So, it was very bad in Hong Kong,
57:35but we were the only provider that did
57:37not mess up. We never had a false
57:39positive, false negative in individuals.
57:42And then the government kept coming back
57:43to us saying, "Can you do more? Can you
57:44do more?" At one point, we were doing
57:46all of the testing for inbound flights
57:49into Hong Kong. So, we made a household
57:52name for ourselves. So, everyone that
57:53flew into Hong Kong had to do a
57:54Prenetics PCR test, which was mandatory.
57:56>> What does that volume look like?
57:57>> We're doing 40,000 tests a day.
58:00>> Wow.
58:01>> So, at one point, it was like crazy. It
58:03was 40,000 tests a day, two, three
58:04thousand people, logistics, supply
58:06chain, everything had to be top notch.
58:08And 3 years, we had 800 million revenue.
58:12>> I want to take a step back here when
58:14we're looking at this. You start this
58:15company, it's on a complete rocket ship
58:17for 3 years. The identity of the company
58:18is this COVID testing.
58:20>> Oh, yeah. We're known as a COVID testing
58:21company, right?
58:22>> Yeah. So, so two big things for people
58:24out there listening. Two things
58:25happened. One, at some point you go
58:27public, which I want to hear everything
58:28about that. And then two, obviously,
58:31COVID stops, and we don't need COVID
58:32testing anymore. So, you're crushing it.
58:34You're doing hundreds of millions of
58:35dollars COVID testing when people come
58:36into the airport.
58:38What happens? What are those things that
58:40happen that you go public? And then
58:41obviously, there's a pseudo crash that
58:43happens with your company.
58:44>> Yeah, correct, right? So, of course, I
58:46always knew, yeah, COVID was going to
58:48end someday, especially with technology,
58:50resources, the testing that was
58:52involved, yeah? So, it was like, what is
58:55one thing that can, you know, way create
58:58our own destiny for us success and and
59:00survival, right? And then so,
59:03one of the things we did early on,
59:04again, our revenue was growing, we were
59:06making a name for ourselves, we decided
59:08to also, in the height of COVID, list
59:10the company on the Nasdaq in 2022. So,
59:13it was May 18th, 2022, we listed it. And
59:17again, it was amazing. We had a $1
59:18billion valuation. Yeah, it was great
59:21until COVID ended, right?
59:22>> What are those things that people get
59:23right or wrong when going public? I
59:25mean, for me, when I look at it, it's
59:26just like you have to be crazy with your
59:28financials.
59:28>> Mhm.
59:29>> What are What are some of the other
59:30things that are the big kind of
59:33rocks that you have to push down the
59:34mountain as far as
59:35>> Yeah, so I mean, the financials is good
59:37point you mentioned. I think that was
59:38always, regardless we went public or
59:39not, right? So, it was very important
59:41for us that a we were audited by a big
59:45four, right? So, you were always audited
59:46by KPMG, Deloitte, and etc., right? So,
59:49that means that you didn't actually have
59:50any issues from an accounting
59:52perspective, right? Because if your
59:53books are not in order,
59:54it's impo- You can't go public, right?
59:56So, from day one, even before, like
59:59early days, like 2016, '17, we already
1:00:01had audited by big four. So, then was
1:00:04just making sure that again, you have
1:00:06the right team, the right bankers
1:00:07involved, the right partners involved
1:00:09for that.
1:00:11>> And when you do that, COVID crashes
1:00:13somewhat soon. What's that inflection
1:00:14point where you're like, "Okay, I need
1:00:16to pivot."
1:00:17>> Yeah, so we need we knew we needed to
1:00:19pivot and then I think post-COVID,
1:00:21again, there was a lot of companies that
1:00:23actually went public during that time.
1:00:25And the crazy thing is that they're all
1:00:26bankrupt right now. Or they're not
1:00:27listed anymore. They were like two,
1:00:29three, four billion-dollar companies
1:00:31that went public during the COVID times
1:00:32because they were doing such big
1:00:34revenues, like billion, two
1:00:36billion-dollar revenues. But then the
1:00:37challenge there was that
1:00:39they continued onto that business, and
1:00:42they thought the testing would continue
1:00:44for a while, where I felt at that time
1:00:47wise, I don't think testing's going to
1:00:49continue. And then so, we made
1:00:51a big decision at the time, once we
1:00:53knew, "Hey, you know what?
1:00:55COVID's not going to continue." And made
1:00:57that decision is that basically to
1:00:59basically shut down our COVID
1:01:00operations, which meant laying off 2,000
1:01:03people.
1:01:04>> Guys, Danny's the pivot king. He's the
1:01:06speed king and the pivot king. It takes
1:01:07a lot to A, make that hard of a pivot,
1:01:09and then B, lay off all those people.
1:01:12I've laid off or fired 10, 20, 30
1:01:15people, not not not thousands of people.
1:01:18How hard was that? What was that like?
1:01:20>> I mean, it was hard, right? Very, very
1:01:22hard because a lot of these people we
1:01:25were going through kind of like the
1:01:27COVID times, which was like crazy crazy.
1:01:30That's what was rocket ship, it was just
1:01:31crazy intensity, right? In terms of was
1:01:34working like literally 24/7 literally
1:01:36for almost 3 years, all right? And then
1:01:39so you went to battle with these
1:01:40individuals, but at the end of the day,
1:01:43there was nothing for them to do.
1:01:45All right? Because if without testing,
1:01:46what they're going to hang up and do?
1:01:47So, I think at the same time, it was
1:01:50good for both the company because I knew
1:01:51if I didn't let go of them,
1:01:54>> Company's done.
1:01:54>> The company's out, which a lot of these
1:01:56other companies they were listed and
1:01:57they're they're bankrupt now. They're
1:01:58not even listed anymore, right? So, of
1:02:00course in hindsight it was the right
1:02:02decision and even for them, I mean, at
1:02:03the end of the day, it was better for
1:02:05them that they had to move on to
1:02:07something which was sustainable, right?
1:02:09So, I think that's how we looked at it.
1:02:11>> people get it. For me, I love the
1:02:13people. Ultimately, the logo is the logo
1:02:16needs to be alive and have cash to pay
1:02:18the people, so that's the most important
1:02:19thing. But I think secondly, something
1:02:21that I've learned in my career is
1:02:23letting someone free as early as
1:02:26possible to find the next thing is way
1:02:28better than to keep them on the ship.
1:02:31>> Yeah, 100% for both sides, right? For
1:02:32both sides. For both sides is the is the
1:02:34is the key thing.
1:02:35>> Right, yeah.
1:02:35>> Yeah. So, I want you to get a a little
1:02:38vulnerable here, Danny. So,
1:02:40your
1:02:42billion-dollar market cap you go down to
1:02:44$20 million.
1:02:46>> I want to say it was like 40, yeah.
1:02:47>> 20 40 million dollars
1:02:49>> was very low. It was very low.
1:02:50>> Your a billion-dollar plus market cap
1:02:52down to a $40 million market cap. What
1:02:54did you learn about yourself, your
1:02:57friends, the world? I'm sure that was a
1:02:59pretty lonely time and place to be in.
1:03:00What did you learn?
1:03:01>> Yeah, it was it was quite it was it was
1:03:03quite lonely, right? Because again, you
1:03:04were like how like even Hong Kong, we
1:03:07had a a a great reputation during COVID
1:03:10and then so when we listed, we were kind
1:03:12of like the poster boy, right? Because
1:03:13we're the first unicorn from Hong Kong
1:03:15listed on the Nasdaq with such a
1:03:17valuation, right? I had a 20% stake.
1:03:19Yeah, so my
1:03:20worth at that time, yeah, was yeah,
1:03:23>> $200 million. I did the math. Yeah.
1:03:25>> You did the math, right?
1:03:26>> Yeah.
1:03:27>> And then of course, going down, yeah,
1:03:29there was a lot of you could hear it
1:03:31from investors or people on the street,
1:03:33oh yeah, of course, yeah. But it's very
1:03:35easy to knock someone down when they're
1:03:36going down, right? And so you knew you
1:03:38you know who your friends are because
1:03:39when you're at a billion dollars and at
1:03:40the height and you have so many people
1:03:42coming into you, so many people want to
1:03:44chat with you, be your friends and etc.
1:03:46So going going way down, you actually
1:03:47know who your real friends are or the
1:03:50ones that are with you from that time
1:03:52through it. And so I think yeah, that's
1:03:54been very clear to me, right?
1:03:56>> I think that everybody needs to go on a
1:03:57little bit of downswing to see that. You
1:03:59get complete transparency and then I'm
1:04:00sure you feel so amazing that now on the
1:04:03upswing, you're going to be real real
1:04:05nice to those people that were there for
1:04:06you.
1:04:06>> Yeah, of course.
1:04:07>> As you should be.
1:04:08>> Yeah, 100% right? And yeah, to be fair,
1:04:10like even at the height, yeah, I still
1:04:13today have not sold a single share of
1:04:15Chronetics, right? Because I always
1:04:17believed in the long term. I didn't know
1:04:19what we would pivot into, to be fair,
1:04:21but I knew we would make something of
1:04:23it. Yeah, so that's why even when we
1:04:25were at 40 million, 50 million, or even
1:04:28going down, I never sold a single share.
1:04:30Because I was like, yeah, I had always
1:04:31the belief that we will make it and make
1:04:33it back.
1:04:34>> Guys, quick break. This episode is
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1:05:42Let's go into that last pivot. So,
1:05:46that goes down.
1:05:47The COVID testing is done.
1:05:50Did you have this idea for IM8? Was it
1:05:52an idea that was inspired by the dinner
1:05:54with David Beckham? What made you pick
1:05:56IM8? For the people out there that are
1:05:58looking to pick their next thing, why
1:06:00did you pick IM8?
1:06:02>> So, I think post-COVID again, our
1:06:03business outside of COVID was in a
1:06:06clinical genomics, right? So, I was
1:06:08working with hospitals,
1:06:10and you know, B2B, some DTC on genomic
1:06:13tests, cancer tests, etc. wise, right?
1:06:16But that model was actually very
1:06:17difficult to scale because you need
1:06:20dependency on regulatory.
1:06:22Right? And all of these different
1:06:23markets, right? In Southeast Asia and
1:06:25etc., and then so you're not in full
1:06:27control of how fast you can go. Right?
1:06:30And then so that was one key aspect of
1:06:32it, all right? COVID was something that
1:06:34you couldn't have predicted, all right?
1:06:35Correct? And then so the other business
1:06:37was very difficult, and again, it's
1:06:38like, "Hey,
1:06:40you won't be able to grow again." So, we
1:06:42felt the consumer space
1:06:45was the right opportunity again
1:06:46leveraging my background e-commerce and
1:06:49science.
1:06:50So, it was right at this time where
1:06:52again, I had the opportunity to meet me
1:06:54and David literally right right when
1:06:56we're thinking about this that we had
1:06:57the opportunity to meet. So, you can
1:06:59call it lucky, right? Right time, right
1:07:01setting, right platform maybe even for
1:07:03him because even at that time, I think
1:07:05David was in a where yeah, he was just
1:07:07about to turn 50. He really wanted to
1:07:09utilize his platform in a positive
1:07:12manner, right? And then for us, the same
1:07:14thing is like it was the right time and
1:07:15then that's where we came up with this
1:07:17together.
1:07:19>> Makes a lot of sense. I say it all the
1:07:20time. I feel like one of the most
1:07:22underestimated things in business is
1:07:24experience.
1:07:25Everybody they see these kind of young
1:07:27gazillionaires that are in their early
1:07:2920s, but the fact that you are where you
1:07:32are is just a culmination of all of
1:07:33these things. And for me, I would always
1:07:36rather bet on a second time founder,
1:07:37third time, fourth time, fifth time,
1:07:38sixth time founder. The more companies
1:07:39that you've founded, the safer the bet
1:07:41is. That's how I look at investing in
1:07:43people and companies.
1:07:44>> Yeah. Correct.
1:07:45>> Yeah. And again, we had even when we met
1:07:47David, I mean, again, we had a 50
1:07:49million market went from 1 billion 50
1:07:50million like oh, he must be like oh
1:07:51[ __ ] right?
1:07:53What's going on here, right? But then
1:07:55when I explained to him what happened,
1:07:58the details, etc. I was like yeah, then
1:08:00it makes sense in terms of our ambition.
1:08:02And we still had cash, right? And then
1:08:04so that was a good thing, right? Because
1:08:05we made a lot of cash during the COVID
1:08:07time, too. We had more than 100 million
1:08:09dollars in cash in the balance sheet.
1:08:11But our market was 50, so there was a
1:08:13disconnect. Right? And now because of I
1:08:16made, of course, people are starting to
1:08:17take notice. Over the past 12 months,
1:08:20now we went from 50 million market cap
1:08:21to now I don't know where almost close
1:08:23to 340 million market cap today.
1:08:26>> Not financial advice here, but I like
1:08:28what you're doing. I'm just I'm just
1:08:29going to leave it at that. Okay, let's
1:08:31round the corner here. I'm going to ask
1:08:32you a ton of random questions. You can
1:08:34fire off short answer, long answer,
1:08:36whatever you want. I guess let's first
1:08:38start off with you have, I don't know,
1:08:41over 500 Bitcoin, I don't know, 40, 50
1:08:43million dollars of Bitcoin on the
1:08:44balance sheet.
1:08:46Why?
1:08:47>> Yeah, so we just felt last June it was a
1:08:49good opportunity and basically from a
1:08:51treasury perspective to invest in
1:08:52Bitcoin. We have excess cash, etc. etc.
1:08:55So we just basically started buying
1:08:56Bitcoin last June. And however, with
1:08:59that being said, the business of I made
1:09:01just grew way faster even than I
1:09:04expected at the end of the last year.
1:09:06So, it just became a bit of a
1:09:07distraction. So, what we mentioned is
1:09:09that we've stopped buying Bitcoin now
1:09:11and into the future and just fully going
1:09:13all in on IMH.
1:09:15>> But you're under the notion that you
1:09:16just think Bitcoin will hold its value
1:09:17more than 3 4% savings bonds.
1:09:20>> Yeah,
1:09:20exactly, right? So, I think we just is a
1:09:23good storage of value and at being at
1:09:25the same time say our Bitcoin assets
1:09:28today is I'm getting ready now we have
1:09:3070 million in cash, 40 million Bitcoin.
1:09:33So, we have much more cash than our
1:09:35Bitcoin. So, it's not like hey, I think
1:09:37it's a good balance.
1:09:38>> Who knows that those numbers could shift
1:09:40with where Bitcoin
1:09:41>> cuz I'm
1:09:42I'm bullish on Bitcoin too, baby. I got
1:09:43I got some Bitcoin.
1:09:44>> Yes.
1:09:44>> You also just raised a little time ago
1:09:46you raised $44 million. For someone out
1:09:48there raising money, what's the biggest
1:09:49piece of advice you give to someone
1:09:50about raising money?
1:09:52>> Again, you have to
1:09:54I mean, for anyone raising money
1:09:56yeah, any opportunity you have with an
1:09:58investor, whoever it is, you just really
1:10:00have to know your business inside and
1:10:02out and because I think from investor
1:10:04perspective again, they have so many
1:10:05options to invest in many different
1:10:07companies, right? So, it's like why
1:10:08should they invest in you? So, you have
1:10:10to be realistic about that answer and be
1:10:12able to show them why with details,
1:10:15numbers, quantities cuz anyone can talk
1:10:17the talk, but you have to quantify with
1:10:19numbers, unit economics and also the
1:10:21path to profitability.
1:10:24>> What are some of those numbers that you
1:10:25think are key to to translate? I think
1:10:27unit economics is obviously one. I think
1:10:29TAM is another one. You're going after a
1:10:30massive market. Anything key that you
1:10:33think like in your business, what are
1:10:35those like key numbers that you think
1:10:37that you communicate to people and it
1:10:38really resonates with them?
1:10:39>> They want simplicity. Like even when I
1:10:42invest is that they my first question is
1:10:43like hey, is there any other companies
1:10:45in your space that's doing something
1:10:46similar?
1:10:47>> Right, because that's the easiest way.
1:10:48Good first question.
1:10:49>> Yeah, good first question is like
1:10:50because then it's like we know the
1:10:51industry is like $700 million global
1:10:54industry for supplements, right? It's a
1:10:55huge huge massive industry. Okay, then
1:10:57people ask, "Hey, who are the
1:10:58competitors?" So, of course there's
1:11:00Athletic Greens. You two wonder doing 6
1:11:02700 million dollars. There's other
1:11:04companies in the space as well, Lybrate,
1:11:05etc., right? So, I think that's the easy
1:11:08reference first, and then the key thing
1:11:10is like how is your product different or
1:11:12better than any of these competitors,
1:11:14right? And at the end of day,
1:11:16you know, multiple companies, I believe
1:11:18can win in the supplements game just
1:11:19because of how massive and global this
1:11:21industry is. And then so, you have to be
1:11:23able to show this conviction and an
1:11:26opportunity that they believe that you
1:11:28can do this.
1:11:30>> How big is the TAM? Who's in the space?
1:11:32How much they're doing? How are we
1:11:33different? And then a couple other core
1:11:35numbers, core unit economics, maybe CAC
1:11:37to LTV.
1:11:38>> Yeah, but just be very, very simple and
1:11:40precise with that. Correct. And then the
1:11:41runway, too, right? Is that A, do you
1:11:43have enough cash on your balance sheet,
1:11:44right? To be able to do what you need to
1:11:46do.
1:11:47>> Agree with you there. You guys aren't in
1:11:48retail. Why aren't you in retail?
1:11:50>> I think we now ship to 31 countries
1:11:53around the world, and it's 100%
1:11:55direct-to-consumer. 98% of that is on
1:11:58our own website, imhealth.com, 2% on
1:12:00Amazon. Because we still see so much
1:12:03growth opportunities, yeah, because for
1:12:04example, only 40 40% of our business in
1:12:07US.
1:12:08Yeah.
1:12:08>> Wow. Mhm. 40%? That's it?
1:12:10>> Yeah, that's it. Exactly, right? So, 40%
1:12:12in the US, Canada, UK is number two,
1:12:15number three, Australia is number four,
1:12:17Hong Kong is number five, Singapore is
1:12:18number six, UAE is number seven, Germany
1:12:20is number eight, right? So, we truly
1:12:22have a global business. So, if you think
1:12:24about our growth opportunity, right?
1:12:26This is why we forecasted this year we
1:12:28want to hit 180 million revenue, but
1:12:31yeah, 40% of that is in US, so it's
1:12:33actually very limited, right? So, lots
1:12:35of growth.
1:12:36>> So, you believe in 100% penetration in
1:12:38the world for D2C as opposed to doing US
1:12:41D2C and US retail.
1:12:42>> Correct. Yeah, from day one. Yeah, so I
1:12:44think easily we have another three years
1:12:46before we even get into deep
1:12:49conversations with retailers. To be
1:12:51fair, all the major retailers have
1:12:53reached out to us.
1:12:54>> I would imagine.
1:12:54>> And we've rejected them.
1:12:56>> And from a leverage perspective, keep
1:12:58rejecting them, keep rejecting them, and
1:12:59then the terms will be better.
1:13:01>> Yeah, exactly, right? And the reality is
1:13:02like we don't Yeah, we're we're growing
1:13:04so fast. I think what if we put in
1:13:06retail into this now, it also loses
1:13:09focus, and I actually don't believe at
1:13:11this early stage of our brand, we can
1:13:14even from our own team perspective, we
1:13:16can do everything well.
1:13:18>> Makes a lot of sense. All right, last
1:13:19three questions that I ask everybody.
1:13:21Favorite book or podcast and why?
1:13:24>> Well, so to be fair, I actually don't
1:13:26read books.
1:13:27>> All right, I don't read books.
1:13:28>> read books.
1:13:29>> You're researching PDFs on ChatGPT.
1:13:31>> Yes, I'm researching like science
1:13:33papers, papers, everything. I I read a
1:13:35lot, but I read like online.
1:13:38>> No podcasts?
1:13:39>> Uh podcast, yes. I I I listen to some
1:13:41podcasts, right? So,
1:13:43I I like to actually like to listen to
1:13:44the the Neil and Eric Siu podcast. That
1:13:47one also gives me a lot of insights in
1:13:48terms of what are the latest tools to
1:13:51use. What's it called?
1:13:52>> Marketer School.
1:13:53>> Marketer School.
1:13:54>> Yeah, I believe by Neil Patel and Eric
1:13:56Siu.
1:13:56>> By Neil Patel and Eric Siu. We're going
1:13:57to pop that one up, guys. I've actually
1:13:59I know who Neil Patel is, obviously, but
1:14:00I've never heard of that podcast.
1:14:01>> Yeah, correct. So, and they're very
1:14:02short, right? Because there's like 15-20
1:14:03minute episodes.
1:14:05All right? And then so they're always
1:14:05talking about the latest tools they use.
1:14:07So, I get like a lot of help because I
1:14:09want to always stay up-to-date on latest
1:14:10tools, right?
1:14:11>> Favorite entrepreneur or brand that you
1:14:13want to give flowers to and why?
1:14:15>> I I think we feel I've always been a big
1:14:17fan of Jack Ma just because if you think
1:14:19about his story from origins, right? And
1:14:21he had the foresight to even record when
1:14:24he was
1:14:25fundraising or getting people involved
1:14:27in his little apartment like 12 people,
1:14:29right? Recording that, and then he was a
1:14:31English teacher in the US, and just to
1:14:33be able to build what he'd been able to
1:14:34build in yeah, from basically coming
1:14:35from nothing and doing that. Yeah. Very
1:14:38amazing.
1:14:39>> All right, last question. How big can I
1:14:41Am Eight be?
1:14:42>> Yes, great question, right? So,
1:14:45I honestly believe it can be one of the
1:14:48world's biggest supplement brands in the
1:14:49next two to five years, right? And this
1:14:51is really rare even for my entrepreneur
1:14:53career that we have a lot of the pieces
1:14:56to make that happen. Cuz you have the
1:14:59great product market fit. We have the
1:15:00performance marketing piece. All right,
1:15:02which now we I think we have a good
1:15:04grasp on, right? You have the brand
1:15:05piece, then you have the celebrity
1:15:07piece, you have the organic individuals
1:15:09that are using the product, which are
1:15:11highly influential. So you have a lot of
1:15:12different pieces. But I think I'm I mean
1:15:14perspective and this is why I can I can
1:15:16go on record and say well a lot of times
1:15:18people ask me, hey, what other new
1:15:19business are you going to start? This is
1:15:21going to be my last business. And I want
1:15:22to go all in on this and believe this
1:15:25has a huge potential to truly be one of
1:15:27the world's biggest supplement brands in
1:15:28the next few years.
1:15:30>> I love that answer. I always say this is
1:15:31going to be my last company. Shows a lot
1:15:32of faith.
1:15:34>> Yeah, I just do I I've I've done enough,
1:15:36yeah, in terms of I don't want to go
1:15:37back again to starting zero, right?
1:15:39>> Amazing every man. Where can they find
1:15:40you? Where can they find IMA? Social,
1:15:42LinkedIn, websites, where where the big
1:15:44places they should look?
1:15:45>> Yeah, I mean, yeah, LinkedIn, of course,
1:15:46yeah. IMA Anyone can find at
1:15:48imahealth.com on the website. Yeah, I'm
1:15:51on Instagram. I'm on X, yeah.
1:15:54Quite accessible.
1:15:55>> Amazing. Thanks for coming, man. What's
1:15:56up, guys? If you guys got this far in
1:15:58the episode, I would assume that you
1:16:00enjoyed it. If you got any value, it
1:16:02would mean the world if you hit the
1:16:03subscribe button, give it a like, post a
1:16:05comment, tell a friend. We could keep
1:16:07going bigger, bigger guests, bigger
1:16:08locations, more value. See you in the
1:16:11next episode.

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