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He Helped His Mom Burn a Body. Then Asked for Immunity | Jeffrey Myers-Woychik Interrogation — Transcript

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0:00This is the only reason why I'm asking
0:01you this. Okay.
0:04>> We were told that you killed Richard and
0:09your mom's trying to cover it up.
0:10>> What?
0:11>> So that's what somebody told us.
0:12>> Who said that?
0:13>> Well, I can't tell you who said that.
0:19In March 2023,
0:2250-year-old Richard Rick Bourke vanished
0:25from the rural Wisconsin home he shared
0:27with his wife, Star Meers, [music]
0:29near the community of Shamrock. On March
0:329th, Star reported that her husband had
0:35been missing for 2 [music] days. But the
0:37following morning, the Jackson County
0:39Sheriff's Office received a tip
0:41suggesting Richard [music] hadn't simply
0:43disappeared. Investigators searched the
0:46property and discovered burned human
0:48remains in an outdoor fire pit along
0:51with personal items believed to belong
0:53to Richard. [music] What began as a
0:55missing person report was now a
0:58suspected homicide investigation.
1:00Attention [music] soon turned to the
1:02people close to Star, including her
1:0422-year-old son, Jeffrey [music] Meyers.
1:08Investigators needed to establish who
1:10had been at the [music] house after
1:12Richard was last seen. what had happened
1:14around the time of the fire and whether
1:17anyone knew more about his disappearance
1:19[music] than they were saying. Jeffrey
1:21was someone detectives needed to hear
1:23from as they tried to piece together
1:25what had taken place on that rural
1:27property. This is the interrogation of
1:29Jeffrey Meyers.
1:32>> They killed me.
1:34>> Did they were they able to move you or?
1:38>> Yeah, they got me into a new block. But
1:40um people on MUDS currently know some of
1:42the people that I know.
1:44>> They Oh, okay.
1:47So um like I said, we got that request
1:51from you.
1:52>> So there is a possibility I could make a
1:54deal.
1:56>> I didn't say that. I said we could talk
1:58about it. Um
2:00>> I don't I just I don't
2:02>> I know how this usually works. Um
2:07but I don't care. I just want to get in.
2:09Sure.
2:09>> I miss her so much
2:11>> in the days and nights longer without
2:14her.
2:14>> Okay. So, because you've been in
2:16continuous custody, I think you know how
2:18this works. We still have to
2:20>> provide you with your rights, your
2:22Miranda rights. Okay. So, I still have
2:24to go over this form with you just like
2:26we do.
2:26>> I remember what they were.
2:27>> Okay. Well, I just I have to read it to
2:29you. So, you have the right to remain
2:31silent. Anything you say can and will be
2:34used against you in the court of law.
2:35You have the right to talk to an
2:36attorney and have an attorney present
2:38with you while you're being questioned.
2:39If you cannot afford to hire an
2:41attorney, one will be appointed to
2:43represent you for a public defender.
2:46>> What's that?
2:47>> I think I got a public defender.
2:48>> Okay. Um, one will be appointed to
2:51represent you before any question. If
2:53you wish, you can decide at any time to
2:54exercise its rights and not answer any
2:57questions or make any statements. Do you
2:58understand each of these rights I've
3:00read to you?
3:01>> Yes.
3:02>> Having these rights in mind, can we talk
3:04to you now? Yes.
3:06>> If you're okay with that, we'll have you
3:09sign the top line there
3:11>> and any other ones or
3:13>> um the next one you print your name on
3:15the next line down.
3:18>> That's enough. Yes.
3:21>> I always thought my signature a little
3:22different to be honest.
3:23>> Sure.
3:24>> Just so I'm curious. You said you had a
3:26public defender. Have you met with them
3:28yet?
3:28>> No.
3:29>> No, I haven't yet.
3:30>> Do you know who the person's name is?
3:32>> No. I called the public defender uh
3:35number and they said they had someone
3:38that will help me whatever. I don't
3:41know. They didn't really tell me who it
3:42was, but they said that I'm set up for
3:45one.
3:47>> Okay.
3:49>> Um so, um as far as what you said in to
3:54your message, I guess I don't know how
3:56that works up in the jail. If you text
3:58it from your tablet or something, is
3:59that how it works? Okay. Um, so as far
4:03as the case goes, the DA's office
4:07will
4:09take what you have to say if you're
4:10being completely honest with us.
4:12>> I will
4:13>> um into consideration for any charges
4:17that they do. That's how it works,
4:19>> right? can't get immunity anymore at
4:20this point since any
4:22>> I I don't know that immunity is on the
4:25table at this point but
4:27>> but it can to me and hers
4:29>> but I'm sure it's something that we can
4:32talk to them about about having
4:34consideration for any charges that might
4:37happen.
4:37>> Do you know if you're honest?
4:39>> Do you know if I still have how many
4:41charges I still have?
4:43>> So as far as I know the criminal
4:45complaints have not been drafted yet. So
4:47I don't know what the charge is going to
4:49be. I think they have a meeting today to
4:51talk about all that stuff at 9:30.
4:54>> Does that mean I have court soon?
4:56>> You I doubt you'd have court today. I
4:58doubt they'd be able to finish them
4:59today.
5:01>> So, honestly, the or
5:02>> Yeah, I was going to say the earliest
5:04would probably be Monday at the very
5:06earliest. But,
5:08>> but again, you know, the DA is going to
5:12>> they're going to talk to us and be like,
5:13"Do you think Jeffreey's being honest
5:15with what happened?"
5:16>> And if we can't say yes, almost
5:19completely honest up until now.
5:21>> Well, almost honest if not the same.
5:24>> I'm trying not to throw myself under in
5:27just one particular instance, but no.
5:29>> Okay. And are you referring to what?
5:33>> The fact that I covered up that I smoked
5:36weed and uh Rick got me into doing coke.
5:39>> Okay. Um I mean honestly the drug stuff
5:42is released. So you're worried at this
5:44point?
5:44>> I didn't want that to go onto my retire
5:46anyway. Okay.
5:49>> Um,
5:50>> I think I told you that already though.
5:52Anyway, it's the last time I saw you.
5:53>> Up in the jail, you did mention that.
5:55>> Yes. I wanted I wanted to be completely
5:57honest cuz I want this to work out cuz I
5:59want to get out.
6:01>> Okay. So, I think that the best thing to
6:03do is just to kind of if you're going to
6:06say you're going to be completely honest
6:07now and before you left some things out,
6:10I think we just need to talk about
6:12things again as to what actually
6:15happened. and we just had some
6:16clarifying questions to ask you. Okay.
6:20>> Um so as far as when this happened, we
6:24we talked about how you know you said
6:27that your mom came over um told you to
6:30wake up and she said that she
6:33>> came to she came and knocked on my door
6:35cuz she was already there obviously at
6:36our house but you know
6:38>> well that's and then came over to the
6:39door but
6:40>> I was my ring. So, we talked about that
6:44stuff, but what we didn't really talk
6:45about is after your mom told you what
6:47happened, what did you do?
6:50>> I did my best to wake Sam up and stayed
6:53there for a couple hours just talking
6:55and then she wanted me to go pick up
6:57Mil.
6:58>> Okay.
6:58>> And that's part of what's going to get
7:00me in trouble if if I stay in here.
7:02Milk's name because two of the guys I'm
7:05sell with will probably kill me if I if
7:07he goes under for this.
7:09>> Okay. And which two people are that
7:12you're worried about?
7:13>> Well, I'm for sure worried about Robert
7:15and I don't know about the new guy, but
7:17he's got connections to Robert. So,
7:19>> okay. And you're talking about Robert?
7:22>> Yes.
7:23>> Okay. Um,
7:24>> and I know he'll protect him because
7:26that's his ex-girlfriend's dad.
7:29>> Okay. So, we were told that you went and
7:32looked at Richard when he was dead.
7:35>> No, I didn't.
7:36>> Okay. Well, that's what we
7:38>> Who said that? There are people at the
7:40house that we've talked to that that
7:42said you told them that that you went
7:44and checked and he was dead.
7:47>> I didn't check to see like I never
7:49looked at his face.
7:50>> Okay. But you
7:51>> I went to the bathroom
7:54after
7:56two days to see if he was actually
7:58really cuz I thought it was just a joke.
8:03>> Okay. And when you walked into the room,
8:05>> it might have been one day. I don't
8:06know. But I went in, it wasn't the first
8:09day I went in and the micro was over his
8:11head and there was blood everywhere.
8:14I refused to look at his face. I still
8:16never seen his face and that's all I
8:17just got.
8:18>> Okay. So you're in your when you say the
8:20back room is like your mom's bedroom.
8:23Okay.
8:24>> And so you walk in and you said you see
8:27a blanket with blood on it. Where where
8:29is this blanket?
8:30>> On the right side of the bedroom.
8:32>> Okay. So, as you're looking at the bed
8:35from the foot of it, which side would it
8:37be?
8:38>> The left side.
8:39>> Okay.
8:42>> Okay. And
8:44>> he
8:45>> Where was the blood on the
8:48>> by the head and the pillow?
8:51>> Okay. And is that
8:53>> she she told me she pulled the blanket
8:54over his head cuz I told her I could not
8:56stand on the I told her I would I
8:59couldn't stand on the face. I can't
9:02stand to see that.
9:03>> Okay.
9:04>> Just makes me sad.
9:06>> So, you walk in as you're facing the
9:08bed. Um, his head is up by the pillows.
9:11And where where is that in relation to
9:13the wall? Like, is the bed
9:17>> the bed's facing like the bed's against
9:19the wall. So, that
9:20>> So, his head
9:21>> the head of the bed was against the
9:22window.
9:23>> So,
9:24>> so his head was up by the wall
9:26basically.
9:27>> The pillows. She had it covered with a
9:29blanket.
9:30>> Okay. the comforter on.
9:32>> And what color was the comforter?
9:34>> Should be red and black.
9:35>> Okay. Um,
9:38>> red, black, and grayish.
9:39>> So, where did you you could actually see
9:41blood through the comforter?
9:43>> I could see it on the brown like the
9:45under sheets and [ __ ] You could see it
9:48just slightly and then you could see it
9:50in the gray comforter by the head.
9:53>> Okay. Did you see any other blood in in
9:56the bedroom?
9:57>> No. She told me that the bullet stayed
10:00his head.
10:01>> Okay. Did she say how she knew that?
10:04>> Because it didn't splatter everywhere. I
10:06asked her if it splattered because I
10:08wanted to know if there was a bullet in
10:09the hole and she's like, "No, it didn't
10:11splatter anywhere." So, it must still be
10:12inside.
10:14>> Okay.
10:16And at what point did you ask her that
10:18about the bullet?
10:20>> Um,
10:22that was the second day.
10:24>> Okay.
10:25>> Two days afterwards.
10:28And so going back to after your mom
10:31initially first told you about what
10:33happened and you woke Savannah up. Um
10:37I guess did you guys talk about what you
10:39were going to do?
10:40>> The second day is when we went and got
10:41mil actually because the first day we
10:43called Chuck and Kathy because mom was
10:46freaking out about all that and I guess
10:50Kathy had uh had troubles with her
10:54husband cheating too. So she thought
10:56maybe she'd be able to help her.
10:58>> So she called Kathy over and Kathy was
11:00freaking out. So she called Chuck even
11:03though we probably shouldn't have and
11:05Chuck's the one that got rid of the gun.
11:06So I have no idea where that is either.
11:09>> You have to bring him in for that.
11:10>> Okay. Um so how soon after you were
11:14first initially told what happened to
11:16Rick did um Kathy get called? Do you
11:19think?
11:24Um, maybe two to three hours.
11:27>> Okay. And what did you guys do for that
11:292 to three hour spent?
11:31>> Well, I was trying to stay calm and keep
11:34Serena calm and she's like, "Is this
11:36really happening? Uh, can I go? Do you
11:41what's going on type thing, you know?
11:43She was really freaking out." And I was
11:46making sure that she didn't need to be
11:48taken back to her mom.
11:50>> Okay. And what did your mom doing do
11:53during that time?
11:54>> I don't know. She went back to her room
11:56and she was trying to figure everything
11:57out. She was freaking out, cried.
12:01She said she was trying to make it out
12:03look like not so that the highway people
12:06could see people passing by the way.
12:09>> Okay.
12:10Um,
12:12did
12:15did she call anybody else besides Kathy?
12:18>> Not that I'm aware of, but I don't have
12:20her phone myself.
12:22>> Okay. And she didn't say that she talked
12:24to anybody else before calling Kathy.
12:26>> She's talked to anybody else.
12:28>> Okay. So, it sounds like then you had
12:30called Kathy and Charles. They came over
12:32to the house.
12:33>> Oh, you know him then, huh?
12:34>> What's that?
12:35>> You know him, huh?
12:36>> Kathy and Charles. Yeah, cuz you called
12:38him Charles instead of Chuck.
12:40>> Well, that's what if people's legal
12:42names when they're Chuck is Charles.
12:45>> Oh, I don't know if that's his real name
12:48or if that's Do you guys already know
12:50him?
12:51>> Do we know him?
12:52>> Yeah.
12:53>> Like as in know personally.
12:55>> Yeah.
12:56>> Oh, I didn't know if his real name was
12:58Chuck or or if you guys knew his name.
13:00>> It shows up there as Charles when you
13:03driver's license.
13:04>> I didn't know that. Oh, well I I don't
13:08usually use people's um what uh
13:11>> nickname
13:12>> nicknames. I guess I use their
13:14>> I didn't his real name was Charles.
13:16>> Oh. Um any truck guy I've ever met,
13:19their legal name has always been
13:20Charles.
13:22>> So um anyway,
13:25>> um either way, so Kathy and Charles came
13:28over, right?
13:30>> Yeah.
13:31>> Okay. And then um you said that Charles
13:34was supposed to get rid of the gun.
13:37And then what happened?
13:38>> Charles wasn't supposed to get rid of
13:40it. Mom wanted to get rid of it herself
13:43because he kept saying um well his idea
13:47was first for the body. He wanted to put
13:49it in a barrel and put it in the bottom
13:51of the lake. And I said no because
13:55that's going to get found right away.
13:58You watch TV, you see that's going to
14:00come right up. See, he said that the gun
14:04is the bottom of the lake. So, I'm
14:06assuming honestly that the gun's
14:07probably the bottom of the lake here.
14:09>> Okay. So, they come over, you guys were
14:12talking about stuff. What other ideas
14:14did you guys come up with besides the
14:16barrel, putting him in a barrel and
14:18throwing him?
14:19>> Well, the he wanted to throw him in the
14:22barrel into water, burning him. I think
14:24that was Neil's idea.
14:27>> Okay. Um, did you guys talk about other
14:30ideas with Kathy and Charles?
14:34>> Uh, they did with mom, but I wanted to
14:37stay out of
14:40make sure I make sure Santa was okay cuz
14:43I wanted to stay out of it a little bit.
14:45>> Okay.
14:46>> And they were freaking out and
14:49we tried like I wanted them to leave as
14:52soon as possible. Mom, as soon as they
14:55stopped freaking out, she pretty much
14:57told them to leave because they were
14:59just making things worse.
15:01>> Okay. Um,
15:05so then, okay, they leave then and it
15:09sounds like Charles took the gun, right?
15:12>> Yeah, he took it out like Kool-Aid
15:14pitcher.
15:15>> Okay. Um,
15:18>> it was covered in bleach.
15:20>> Okay. I remember the handle was white.
15:23>> And who put the bleach in there?
15:25>> He did.
15:26>> Okay. And did you say why?
15:28>> To remove fingerprints.
15:30>> Okay. And when you say he, you mean
15:33Charles?
15:34>> Okay. Um, so he leaves, comes back. Then
15:38what happens?
15:41>> He didn't come back with it.
15:43>> Well, I know, but I mean he came back,
15:44right, to the house after he got rid of
15:47the guns?
15:48Um, they came back at like 900 p.m. and
15:51were talking to mom, but I was trying to
15:53fall asleep at that rate.
15:54>> Okay. So, they leave the house. So, Cass
15:56and Charles leave the house. Then what
15:58happens? What do you guys do between
16:00them coming back then?
16:02>> Between there and there, um, at first,
16:05uh,
16:06Ty and Kathy were eager to get rid of
16:08the body before they left. Um, Muhammad
16:11is saying that she wanted to wait three
16:13days to figure out what she wanted to do
16:14with him because she wanted to lay by
16:16him.
16:17>> Okay.
16:18I thought it was a bad idea, but I just
16:22>> got my two cents out of it. And
16:25>> so what did you guys do then
16:28during the day after Kathy and Charles
16:30left? Then
16:31>> me and S. Honestly, I sat there trying
16:34to make sure she was okay and she wanted
16:36to
16:38she was all over. She's like, I don't
16:39want to get in trouble. I don't want to
16:41be involved in this. I I don't want to
16:43be here anymore and all that. I was
16:45trying to make sure that she didn't need
16:46to go and I kept asking her if she
16:49needed to and I laid down by her. We
16:52were cuddling and we fell asleep for a
16:54little bit. And then I woke back up at
16:57like
17:00the 9:00 part is when we fell asleep.
17:02Fell asleep though cuz um after checking
17:05Kathy first left, we I turned on
17:07Netflix.
17:10I turned on I don't think I'm going to
17:12be able to remember what I turned on.
17:13>> Oh, that's fine. But I turned on
17:15Netflix. Hopefully it would calm me and
17:17her down. And
17:19we watched that for a couple hours. And
17:22honestly, I'm not I'm not 100% sure if
17:25I'm going to get every minute of this
17:26right.
17:26>> Sure.
17:27>> Cuz it's been a week now.
17:29>> Yeah.
17:30>> But we were sitting there watching
17:31Netflix and uh nobody came in between
17:34that time.
17:36>> Okay. So then it sounds like at some
17:39point Kathy and Chuck came back to the
17:41house. Yeah, they came back at like
17:439:00, mom said.
17:45>> Okay. And what did they come back for?
17:47>> Uh, they wanted to see if mom had made
17:50any idea if like any
17:53if she's progressed on not getting
17:55ready.
17:57>> Okay. Um, and what else was talked about
18:00when they were there then at that time?
18:06>> I'm not sure honestly because that's
18:07when I was starting to fall asleep.
18:09>> Okay.
18:10And they went to the back bedroom.
18:13>> Okay. So, they went Charles, Kathy, and
18:17your mom went to the bedroom where
18:18Richard was?
18:19>> Yeah, they went either into the closet
18:21or into the bedroom. As soon as they
18:24started leaving the living room, I went
18:25back into my room.
18:27>> Okay.
18:28And do you know when they left, how long
18:32they were there before they left?
18:35>> I don't. I fell asleep.
18:37>> Okay. Um, so then do you wake up at all
18:40the rest of the night?
18:43>> I woke up in the middle of the night
18:44just to go to the bathroom.
18:46>> Okay. And did you happen to see your mom
18:48at all?
18:49>> Okay.
18:50>> I saw her sleeping out on the couch.
18:52>> Okay.
18:54>> He covered her up with a blanket fire.
18:57>> So, just to clarify, on that first day
19:00after your mom shot Richard, you guys
19:03didn't leave the house to go anywhere.
19:06>> No.
19:07>> Okay. Not that I can remember.
19:08>> Okay. So then the next day um what
19:11happens?
19:13>> Second day is when we went to get milk.
19:15I think I went got him.
19:20I had to be really early
19:26around like 10 or 11 in the morning.
19:28>> Okay.
19:28>> I took him back around 3:00.
19:31And did you make um It sounds like
19:35on the way back you stopped at Quick
19:37Trip.
19:38>> Quick Trip.
19:39>> Did you make any other stops on the way
19:41to pick him up?
19:43>> Did you go to Walmart or anything?
19:45>> On the way to pick him up, I think I
19:48went to Quick Trip to get a slushie.
19:50>> Okay.
19:51>> On the way back from picking him up, I
19:53also No. On the way back from picking up
19:55is when I went to get the slushie for
19:56mom. Mom loves Quick Trip Slushie. So on
19:59the way back, I got a chip slushy and he
20:01got a coffee or something.
20:04>> Okay. So after you went and picked Milt
20:07up on your way back to the house, you
20:09stopped at Quick Trip to get the
20:10slushie. He got a coffee and then you
20:13guys went back to the house.
20:15>> Um and then what' Milt do at the house?
20:18>> Hold on. What
20:20>> What quick trip did you go to to get
20:21this slushy cup of coffee?
20:23>> Same one as the diesel. So the one on
20:25County Road A there by by
20:29>> Okay. So you go back to the house and
20:31then what what happens was
20:34>> Well, at first he he wasn't sure what he
20:38was really being
20:40dragged into cuz couldn't be explained
20:43over the phone.
20:45And on the way there, I guess I was
20:47trying to test him to see if mom could
20:49trust him.
20:50>> So what what were you saying to him? to
20:52ask him um
20:56what like
20:59what he do for friends and uh
21:03I I remember that mom had trusted him
21:06very well. So, I was like, I know mom
21:08trusts you and she said that if anything
21:11if she ever went to jail that I could
21:12count on you and you'd be able to help
21:14me out with anything I needed, take care
21:17of me. And
21:19so, I was asking
21:21I was like, "Well, she trusted you a
21:24lot. So, if I trusted you and you
21:27trusted me the same way you guys trusted
21:29each other, would you help me get rid of
21:31a body?"
21:33>> And what?
21:35He said, "Honestly, no, because um
21:39that's the kind of thing that you should
21:40only do yourself, but you end up helping
21:43her."
21:45>> So that's why you said in the car
21:46though, right?
21:47>> Yeah.
21:48>> And was um Savannah in the car with you
21:50when you went to pick those up?
21:52>> Passenger seat.
21:54>> I won't go anywhere without her.
21:56>> Okay.
21:57>> So you asked him these questions and you
22:00got to the house and then what? Sounds
22:02like you guys have been question.
22:06>> She's been she's been talked to I don't
22:08know how recently.
22:10>> Have you guys been talked to me?
22:12>> Not personally.
22:14>> I want to talk to her so bad.
22:18>> I should I should clarify that I did go
22:20get um a buckle swap from her as well.
22:23Yes. Was it yesterday? The day before
22:25whenever I met with you.
22:27>> How was she?
22:28>> She seemed fine. Is she ever says she's
22:30pathetic picture on the TV? She was
22:33pale.
22:34>> I think she looked better when I
22:36whenever you did the buckle swab than
22:38the first day she was brought in.
22:40>> She looks
22:42>> I mean she looks too thin.
22:44>> She thin.
22:45>> I mean,
22:47but um
22:49>> I mean she looked like that be, you
22:51know, when she was first brought in.
22:53Know my opinion. But
22:54>> this is why I would do this. I want to
22:56get her out of here as soon as possible.
22:58Sure.
23:00But like I said, I think she looked
23:01better whatever day we did the buckle
23:03swabs because all my days are running
23:05together than
23:08>> uh
23:09>> Yeah. I am.
23:14>> She No, she did not specifically ask how
23:17you were, but we didn't really We
23:20weren't talking about you. You know what
23:21I mean? We were doing the buckles thing
23:23just like we did with you.
23:25>> Not interested in me. What you I think
23:28you're reading too much into it. She has
23:30a lot going on just like you do.
23:32>> Yeah.
23:32>> Um
23:34>> All right. So, we get back to you. Mills
23:37arrives at the house and what does he
23:40[snorts] what happens first? He arrives.
23:42>> He was sitting on the couch in the
23:43living room and mom was determining how
23:46to tell him and I just got fed up with
23:51her being so slow. was like she killed
23:53him cuz she was like like staggering
23:58with her voice.
23:59>> Sure.
24:00>> Like I I I don't know how to tell you
24:03this. I was like that
24:07and then
24:08>> was Mil told how he died? How died?
24:12>> Yeah, I think so. Cuz after after that,
24:15mom was like, "Okay, Jeffrey."
24:18>> And like as in uh okay, you're straight
24:21to the point, Jeffrey kind of.
24:24>> And what did Milt say? What was his
24:26reaction?
24:27>> He's like, "Oh, kind of figured it was
24:30something like that."
24:32And then uh they went to the back
24:34bedroom
24:38and uh they came back out. But uh most
24:42of most of their conversation I honestly
24:45didn't want to hear.
24:47>> Okay.
24:48>> So Mel and your mom went to the bedroom
24:50where Richard was
24:52>> was Yeah. She wanted to show him.
24:54>> Okay.
24:55>> And he wanted to like examine see how
24:58bad it was.
24:59>> Okay.
25:01And what did Mil say then about what was
25:05going on or what needed to be done or
25:10>> I I honestly don't know most of that
25:12conversation is honest to God.
25:14>> Okay. So what do you remember then?
25:16>> What I do know is that uh honestly they
25:21went back to the bedroom and most of
25:23that conversation until I had to take
25:24him home. I don't know what happened,
25:26but I know that she was saying that um
25:31he was telling me that after I dropped
25:33him off, I needed to go get her new
25:34sheets and a new comforter
25:37and new
25:40foam pad things and everything. He
25:42taught me everything I had to get. And
25:44uh he said when I went over to his
25:47house, I should pick up a barrel and
25:49some wood.
25:50And I didn't know about the diesel until
25:53we got to the gas station. I didn't even
25:54know what it was for.
25:56>> Okay.
25:57>> Then we pull up to the gas station. He's
25:58like, "Can you pull over the diesel
26:00pumps?" I was like, "All right." He
26:01said, "I grabbed a gas can from the
26:03house. I'll go in and pay for it. Just
26:06pump $10."
26:09>> Okay.
26:10So, when did at what point did he tell
26:13you about buying the mattress and the
26:15comforter and stuff?
26:17>> That was uh right before we left the
26:20house. Him and mom were saying it
26:21together like tell me what I needed to
26:24>> car on my way back.
26:25>> Okay. And um did you know that Milt had
26:29grabbed the gas can from the house?
26:31>> I had seen him do it yet.
26:33>> Okay. Um did you happen to see Mil go
26:39out in the shed?
26:43>> Okay. Um did you go out in the shed at
26:46all when milk was there?
26:49No, I went up from the shed when Benny
26:51and uh the other two guys were there. We
26:54went to the shed to make sure that
26:57he didn't have anything hidden in his
26:59shed that would uh
27:01cause further uh you know jail time.
27:05>> Okay.
27:06>> We thought he had all of his trucks
27:08hidden out there. So, we didn't want any
27:09of them being
27:12found out there.
27:13>> Okay. Me and Vinnie and the other two
27:16guys were supposed to be taking apart
27:19the
27:20shed, but only me and Vinnie ended up
27:22putting it. The other two guys stayed
27:24inside with something and I honestly
27:26don't know what it was.
27:28>> Okay. And did you guys find anything in
27:30the shed?
27:32>> We found little baggies and bunch of
27:36different bullet.
27:38He used to have a bunch of guns in there
27:40and we don't know if they're still you
27:42guys that apart. I don't know if there
27:43are any guns in there, but he's got to
27:47ste
27:50my throat. Rick's got a secret storage
27:52compartment somewhere in that shed.
27:53>> Okay.
27:54>> Cuz he's constantly drilling out there.
27:56I don't know if you guys found it or
27:57not, but he's got something secretly
27:59stored out there.
28:00>> Okay. But you didn't tell me these
28:02little baggies didn't have drugs in
28:04them. They were just like empty baggies
28:05or
28:06>> There wasn't anything in them, but there
28:08was powder on top of this tool boxes.
28:10>> Okay. And what? white powder.
28:13>> Do with that?
28:14>> Left there. Still should be there.
28:16>> Okay.
28:17>> And he's got uh blades and broken in
28:20half credit cards in his tool box.
28:23>> Okay.
28:25Um
28:25>> and straws as well.
28:27>> So, did you notice that um
28:30>> long red straw like this with white
28:32residue inside it?
28:34>> Did you notice that any barrels had been
28:36moved when Milt was there at the house?
28:39>> No, not yet. cuz uh mom was saying
28:43something about moving barrels, but I
28:45didn't exactly know what she was talking
28:48about. I didn't know that she had
28:49planned to burn it.
28:52>> Okay.
28:53>> But
28:55>> um
28:55>> once while the body was burning, I did
28:58look outside just once.
29:00>> So what did you see?
29:02>> I saw what looked like uh
29:06expanding styrofoam, but it wasn't
29:09expanding styrofoam. It was his insides.
29:12>> Okay.
29:13>> They looked yellow as they were
29:14expanding out of the fire.
29:17That's a scaring image and I didn't want
29:19to remember that. But I prefer I have to
29:22remember that and spooked
29:25out the door at the same moment.
29:27>> Okay. And did you at that moment when
29:29you looked into the could you make out
29:31where his limbs were or anything?
29:34his uh
29:38left leg and no his right leg and his
29:41left arm. I think his left arm was like
29:44up in the air
29:46>> and his right leg was like this.
29:48>> Okay.
29:49>> I just told he eventually burned off and
29:51you couldn't tell.
29:53>> Okay.
29:55Um do you know if any time
29:57>> I looked out at the end of the fire and
30:00that's when it was almost over. that I
30:02want to sleep while still going.
30:06It's
30:08disgusting to watch body burn.
30:11>> And do you know if any at any time
30:13anybody um
30:16>> if anybody else came over?
30:18>> No. If anybody did anything to the body
30:20like broke it apart or
30:24>> No, they had planned to saw it up with a
30:27chainsaw, but I don't think it ever got
30:29to that point because I was
30:32I was saying that um while Milt was
30:36there, they were saying that mom was
30:38saying that she wanted to chainsaw it up
30:40and uh whatever they were going to do
30:43with him. They were going to chainsaw
30:44him in pieces.
30:46>> And I was saying, um
30:49do that, Mom. It's going to be way too
30:51traumatizing after this. You're never
30:52going to get over this.
30:55>> So I don't think they chain thought him
30:57apart. But I know mom mom must have
31:00swept him up afterwards, put him in the
31:02barrel.
31:03>> Well done. And you had said before that
31:05that she had told you she put him in the
31:08barrel, right?
31:08>> Yeah, she told me she put him in the
31:10barrel and I'm assuming that she's the
31:13one who's scraped the ground cuz nobody
31:15else was there and saying you.
31:18>> Okay.
31:19So Mil's over at the house. Um they're
31:22talking about what they were talking
31:23about. Um they tell you you need to go
31:26to Walmart, get these things. Um
31:28>> I didn't end up getting those things
31:30until the day that I picked up any.
31:33>> Okay. Um
31:34>> which was Friday.
31:37>> Okay.
31:39The day that you were arrested.
31:41>> Yeah, cuz I got him that morning
31:44actually, right before I went and picked
31:46up Vinnie.
31:46>> Okay. Did you
31:47>> He got in the car with a whole bunch of
31:50[ __ ] in the back seat.
31:52>> Okay. Did you end up going to Walmart
31:56any other time between
31:58when Richard was killed and you going
32:01there with Vinnie or did they pick up
32:03Vinnie on Friday?
32:06>> Did you go anywhere else during that
32:08time besides Quick Trip?
32:11>> I think I went to Burger.
32:14I think I went to Burger King, but I
32:16can't remember if I went there or
32:17before.
32:19I don't think it really matters.
32:24I think that was this was when you were
32:25taking milk back or when you were
32:27pregnant.
32:27>> No, I can't remember if I went to Burger
32:29King before I went to before Rick or
32:32after. So,
32:34>> I know that there were some burgers in
32:37your bedroom.
32:38>> Were the McDonald's burgers?
32:39>> I think they were McDonald's.
32:41>> Okay. So McDonald's.
32:47>> Did you go McDonald's Friday?
32:57You went to McDonald's? Yeah, I went to
32:58McDonald's right before I went over to
33:00Vinnie.
33:01>> I got some stuff from Walmart and then I
33:03went out to McDonald's.
33:06>> Okay.
33:08Um
33:14So, what was your
33:18>> Well, let's let's take a step back. So,
33:20um you take Milt home. Um you know, he
33:23tells you get the diesel or whatever.
33:25Before you take him home, you go to the
33:27house, he gives you a barrel.
33:29>> Yeah. He put Well, actually, I just
33:32backed up to his house and he opened the
33:34back door and put the barrel in there
33:35himself.
33:36>> Okay. And where in the vehicle did you
33:38put the barrel? in the back door.
33:42>> Okay. Not the trunk.
33:43>> Yeah, in the trunk.
33:44>> Okay. So, the trunk area.
33:45>> That's what I mean by the back door.
33:46>> Okay.
33:47>> Sorry.
33:48>> Um,
33:48>> where was the diesel fuel inside of the
33:51barrel?
33:53>> The the diesel was already in the trunk.
33:56I needed to put the barrel in there and
33:58it I was like, "No, this isn't going to
34:01break one of my windows." So, I put the
34:03diesel inside of the barrel right before
34:06I left this house.
34:07>> Okay. doesn't seem heavy enough to keep
34:10it from moving around cuz I haven't
34:12talked with and then a puppy.
34:15>> Okay.
34:17So then you go back to the house and
34:20then what happens once you get back to
34:22the house from Milt?
34:25>> It won't be mentioned that I mentioned
34:27Mil's name, right?
34:29>> Yes, it will be. It'll be in the report.
34:32>> But is that public knowledge?
34:34>> If they home and then what do you do?
34:37than what I do.
34:38>> Yeah. What What did you do?
34:40>> Well, uh after I left Melt went back to
34:45started going to town and then uh Melt
34:48called and said he uh left his bag of
34:51something in the car.
34:53He was supposed to
34:56he got something from Quick Chip. I
34:59don't remember what it was, but he left
35:00a bag in the car and he wanted me to
35:03come back because he took my bag and I
35:05had his. Okay. So,
35:09>> gloves or something or trash bags? I'm
35:11not sure. It was a really, really small
35:14bag. He didn't tell me what it was.
35:16>> Okay. So, did you go back to his house
35:18then?
35:18>> Yes.
35:19>> I went back to his house and he got his
35:21back. Well, his daughter got his bag out
35:23of the back of the car and she gave us
35:26whatever was supposed to be honest. I
35:29never even looked at it. To be honest, I
35:31didn't look in the bag.
35:33>> Okay. So,
35:34I went back to make sure she was all
35:35right.
35:37Um,
35:39yeah, there I think. Uh,
35:43do you take anything hold of the card?
35:47>> Trying to think.
35:50Well, as soon as I got there, I went and
35:51took the barrel and the diesel and put
35:53them in the backyard.
35:55>> Okay.
35:56>> Cuz I figured either that's for that or
35:59it's for trash burning.
36:02where
36:04>> what do you consider your backyard?
36:06>> Yes.
36:07>> The wooded area,
36:09>> the fenced area.
36:10>> Okay. So, the fenced area is the
36:12backyard.
36:12>> Yeah.
36:15>> So, you um in your mind assumed that the
36:18barrel was either for burning the body
36:20or for burning trash.
36:21>> Yeah.
36:21>> Okay.
36:22>> Cuz the other three barrels are for
36:24burning trash. Can't usually pick up the
36:26trash.
36:27>> Okay.
36:28Um, so you go inside, you check on your
36:31mom and then what what happens that day
36:34after mom left?
36:35>> I went and took that out there and then
36:37I went and pulled around the front and I
36:39was like, "Hey mom, I took the barrel
36:41back there." I think she had a friend
36:44over. I remember who it was.
36:47It wasn't somebody you knew though.
36:51She didn't want me to say anything.
36:54>> So wasn't that Jerry?
36:56>> It was Oh, [ __ ] It's just
37:00Daryl. Darren, something like that. His
37:03name's Darren.
37:07Black man.
37:11Oh, no. Darren came over later that
37:12night because Tim was there. The one who
37:14I was talking about picking up garbage.
37:16He was there right away. He was picking
37:18up. I think that's from mom.
37:21>> Okay.
37:22>> Just to be straight out. Might as well
37:24just go straight out with the details, I
37:26guess. Well, I mean, like I said, you
37:28being honest goes a long way with other
37:30>> and the more honesty, even if it's blunt
37:32honesty, the more honesty I include, the
37:34better it looks for me.
37:36>> Correct.
37:37>> So, what's Tim's last name, you know?
37:41>> No, I have his phone number in my phone
37:43though. So, if you look in my phone, you
37:45could grab his phone number and probably
37:47associate that through his files.
37:49>> What's uh what do you have him listed as
37:51in your phone?
37:52>> Just him.
37:53>> Just him. Okay.
37:56So Tim came over to get some mess from
37:58your mom.
38:00>> He's usually supposed to empty the
38:02garbage. He took the aluminum cans with
38:05him in the like glass bottles cuz they
38:07don't like taking those recycling
38:09centers, but
38:11>> was he told anything that was going on?
38:13>> Oh, he didn't. No, she didn't trust.
38:16>> Okay. So, he just came over to get
38:18drugs, took the recycling, and left.
38:21>> Yeah.
38:22>> And Tim drives a what? has a silver van.
38:26>> Okay.
38:26>> Which uh must the hub have caps missing
38:29cuz looks like all the wheel rims are
38:31black.
38:32>> Okay.
38:37>> And I feel like I'm about to get a lot
38:39of people in trouble.
38:42>> A lot of people are about to hate me.
38:46>> Well, you got to do what's best for you,
38:48right? And your girlfriend.
38:49>> I got to do whatever's best for her.
38:53Um, so Tim comes over, he leaves. Does
38:55it does this Darren guy come over after
38:58that or
38:59>> Darren came over a couple of hours
39:01later? I think about two hours later.
39:03Nobody was there between that time. She
39:05was uh she went back to play by him.
39:08>> Okay.
39:08>> She said she was yelling at him and she
39:12was mad trying to have a conversation
39:14hoping he would yell back.
39:16>> Okay.
39:17>> So I left alone for a couple hours and
39:19then all of a sudden somebody tonight
39:22because it was Darren.
39:24>> Okay.
39:25>> Darren came over with some somebody. I
39:28don't remember who it was. So, I just
39:31got to remember who the other person he
39:32had over was because a girl.
39:35>> Okay. I think what had um what were they
39:37there for?
39:39>> They were there for picking up.
39:43>> Okay.
39:44>> And go. And did they stay for a while or
39:50>> they stayed for about an hour and a
39:53halfish?
39:54She loves to talk. Just loves to
39:57[ __ ] constantly.
40:02She never found out as far as I'm aware.
40:04>> Okay. So, as far as you know, your mom
40:06or nobody told Darren what happened with
40:08Rick?
40:09>> As far as I'm aware, because he was good
40:11friends with Rick.
40:12>> Okay.
40:15Did he ask where Rick was?
40:18Do you remember? And
40:20>> I think a couple people asked and she
40:22said he uh ran off during a fight.
40:25>> Okay.
40:28Um so Darren comes and goes. Does
40:30anybody else come over?
40:34Save me was there.
40:42God, I'm I'm sorry if you're taking a
40:44second to
40:45>> Everything you're talking about is
40:46getting mixed up in my head right now.
40:53>> It's hard to remember which exact date
40:55is which.
41:09Oh, cuz that was late at night. It was
41:11like 11:00 at night and uh Darren came.
41:15>> Okay.
41:18>> So Mil didn't come over the day of the
41:20fire then. The fire was the next day.
41:25>> Yeah. Fire was the day after Mil came
41:27over.
41:31>> Okay.
41:32>> All right. Space out.
41:34>> No, that's fine.
41:36Um
41:38Okay. So, as far as I know, Darren was
41:40the last person to come over that day
41:42then.
41:42>> Yeah.
41:43>> Okay. So, then the next day, which
41:45sounds like would be the day of the
41:46fire, which would be Wednesday, right?
41:50>> Feel like feel like
41:55I feel like Tim came back over that
41:57night.
42:01I think Tim came back over later that
42:03night.
42:06Oh, right. because they hadn't had any
42:08early on when they when team came over
42:10in the first place. They didn't have any
42:12and came over to rehab and they had
42:14gotten some that night cuz uh her dealer
42:18came over.
42:22>> Okay.
42:22>> His name
42:25Sean.
42:27>> Sean.
42:28>> Sean.
42:28>> Okay.
42:29>> He's black.
42:32>> And where is he from?
42:35That's a good question.
42:38He doesn't He doesn't trust anybody. I'm
42:41not even allowed to be in the room
42:42usually when he's over. I've only been
42:44allowed to be in the room once while he
42:46was over at the house.
42:47>> Okay.
42:48>> He's this black guy with a dress. I
42:50think he's from Chicago.
42:53>> And what did what did he arrive in? What
42:55vehicle did he have?
42:57>> I don't know. I I didn't want to sketch
43:00him out.
43:01>> Sure.
43:02>> He came with his sister, though.
43:05Do you know her name?
43:08>> No.
43:10Uh, age. So, thinking about all that.
43:15>> Okay.
43:17>> Mom wouldn't tell me much about him
43:19either.
43:22And I don't know if he's from Chicago or
43:25by the Dallas cuz they often go up by
43:27the Dallas to get to pick up. But he was
43:31saying that there was a lot of heat
43:33around this area lately and he hadn't
43:36been coming over lately because he
43:38wasn't sure if he could trust people
43:41around here.
43:42>> Okay.
43:43>> And he said Rick was
43:46I don't know. He said Rick was being
43:47weird.
43:49Couldn't trust him as much. He was I
43:52don't know. I think he was picking up
43:54too much.
43:55>> Okay.
43:55>> He couldn't trust him as often. He
43:57wanted him to go all the way to him.
44:00[snorts] I don't know where that is.
44:02Personally, I do not care enough about
44:06the truck business to drive that far.
44:07So, I never driven them driven to them.
44:11>> Okay.
44:12Um, but you know that they have gone to
44:15Wisconsin Delas before to get some
44:17drugs.
44:18>> Okay. And what did uh Sean bring over
44:21then? What drugs?
44:23>> He probably
44:24>> Okay. Do you know how much
44:27>> and the the fat? No, where you guys
44:30found that also from there.
44:31>> Okay. Do you know how much meth
44:35coke he brought?
44:36>> 4 ounces of coke.
44:40I think that's what mom said.
44:41>> Okay. How much meth?
44:44>> I I don't know.
44:45>> Okay.
44:47She was telling me uh cuz uh the next
44:51day I think somebody came over and she's
44:55like, "Hey, do you know anybody who
44:56needs Coke? I got 4 ounces of Coke from
44:59Sean last night
45:02and I need to [clears throat] get rid of
45:03it before my
45:06That was uh What day did she have to
45:08come in for the stop detective?"
45:12That was Friday, right?
45:13>> Yeah.
45:14>> Yeah. She uh
45:15>> but she reported to him missing on
45:18Thursday
45:19>> Thursday
45:22>> to a detective or not uh just a patrol
45:25deputy.
45:26>> I think it was Thursday that uh she was
45:28telling someone
45:32cuz she said uh no it was either
45:35Wednesday or Thursday that she was
45:36telling someone that she had to get rid
45:38of 4 ounces.
45:41It was Thursday though. She's like, "Cuz
45:45I go in the day after tomorrow
45:49and I need to get rid of 4 ounces to
45:51make sure everything's okay here."
45:54>> Or was she referring to having a report
45:55for prison?
45:57>> Yeah, that's what she meant.
45:58>> Oh, okay.
45:59>> Cuz she had to go in on Saturday, right?
46:01>> Yeah. So, that would have been probably
46:03Thursday.
46:04>> Thursday was the day that she was
46:05talking to someone.
46:08Can't remember who she said it to.
46:17Felix,
46:19I know she said it's Darren. I know she
46:22asked him. I know she asked Mel at some
46:24point that day. Uh
46:32I think that was the same day that it
46:35must have been the same day that he had
46:37come over. Melt was coming over. Soon as
46:39she asked Melt if he needed any coke.
46:43>> Okay. So Sean must have been there
46:45before Milt had come over.
46:47>> Well Mil had come over
46:50like that night. That's when she asked
46:52him if he need any that night.
46:56>> Okay.
46:56>> When I was taking him back, you know.
46:58>> Yeah. But at midday. Sorry.
47:00>> Yeah. I was going to say you wouldn't at
47:02him like at
47:02>> Yeah, cuz I took him back at like 4 3 or
47:054 and it was almost dark hitting the sky
47:08when I was taking it back. So
47:11>> Sure.
47:11>> Sorry.
47:12>> No, that's fine. So the day of the fire,
47:16you had mentioned that this uh Jeffrey
47:18came over and helped move
47:20>> Jerry.
47:20>> Jerry, sorry. Uh too many J names. Um
47:24that Jerry had come over to help move
47:26the body. Um, how did his name get
47:29brought up to even
47:32call or how did
47:34>> Jerry uh he had come over
47:38pick up
47:40meth and drop off some wax I think.
47:45>> Okay.
47:46>> And the dead wax and the slick was from
47:48him.
47:50>> The wax and the what?
47:52>> Oh, there's like a a slick like this
47:54size. Oh, okay.
47:55>> And that um metal thing.
47:57>> Okay.
47:59>> Cuz I like salty wax.
48:01>> Okay.
48:01>> So, I tried the wax,
48:05>> but um
48:08she knew that she could trust him.
48:11>> Okay. So, he was
48:13>> he was coming over to to to bring some
48:15drugs and while he was there, she asked.
48:18It wasn't like she called him over
48:20there.
48:21>> Yeah. Uh cuz he the day he had come to
48:25bring stuff, she told him about it.
48:27>> Okay.
48:28>> And it was the next like day that he had
48:31to come back over or I know she told him
48:34about it during the day and I know he
48:36came back over at night to help put the
48:38body on right as the fire was going.
48:41>> He took it he he helped her drag the
48:44body.
48:45>> God, it smells so nasty.
48:48>> I can smell it as they were dragging it.
48:51Okay. So, he was over there twice in one
48:55day. Jerry,
48:57>> I believe he's either there twice in one
48:59day or twice in two days.
49:01>> Okay.
49:03>> I'm not going to like say for sure
49:04because
49:05>> Oh, that's fine. That's fine.
49:07>> That doesn't like hurt me, but
49:09>> No, we're just I mean, we we understand
49:12people don't remember every little
49:14detail.
49:15>> I can't remember everything exactly. So,
49:17it's just like jumping around in my
49:19head. Yeah. Well, it doesn't help
49:21obviously, you know, if you are using
49:25drugs, you know, to help your memory,
49:26that's not the best thing either.
49:28>> I was walking in mine and I was
49:30partially also to forget. So,
49:33>> um, do you know if he ever mixes
49:36anything with his wax,
49:39>> Jerry?
49:39>> Yeah.
49:41Like any other drugs? Because we had
49:43some
49:44>> Does he
49:45>> test positive?
49:46>> Does he
49:48>> for other drugs? Does he?
49:50>> I'm just asking. Do you ever know it?
49:51>> I didn't know. And I don't I don't like
49:53to do other jokes other than just the
49:55two.
49:55>> Okay.
49:56>> So, did was he mixing other [ __ ] in?
49:58>> I'm just asking. I don't even know if it
50:00was from him, but I we just had
50:02>> from him.
50:03>> Okay.
50:04>> What was in it?
50:06>> What did I smell?
50:08>> What did Did you feel any different?
50:11>> I I smoked a little bit from that slick
50:14and I ended up passing out.
50:17>> Okay.
50:18What did I saw?
50:20>> Well, there was one container that
50:21tested positive for fentanyl, some some
50:25waxy substance.
50:28>> Was it like
50:30>> But it was in a round container
50:31>> like this like kind of beige clear.
50:35>> Yeah.
50:36>> Like our skin color kind of.
50:39>> Oh god.
50:40>> So you thought that that was PhD?
50:42>> That was wax.
50:43>> Okay.
50:43>> I thought that was wax.
50:47Mom was sleeping and she said that
50:50whenever I needed to smoke, I could
50:52smile from her. But I didn't know that
50:55that was
50:59>> um
51:03where was the stuffed cat?
51:06>> Drugs.
51:07>> It was in the closet. It was all in the
51:10closet before they all got moved into my
51:13room.
51:15the fun. And the one
51:18>> that big walk-in one.
51:20>> Yeah, the walk-in closet
51:21>> next to
51:22>> their bedroom.
51:22>> Okay.
51:24>> It was right behind the door. Hey, did
51:26you guys break the TVs?
51:29>> No. Did you lock the door?
51:32>> As far as I know. Yeah, it's usually
51:34standard procedure. I guess I don't
51:36know.
51:36>> Yeah, I uh whoever released the house,
51:39it wasn't either one of us. I think I
51:43know they communicated with Star and um
51:45her attorney about what to do with it.
51:48So I don't
51:49>> Yeah. said that the house ransacked and
51:51unlocked.
51:53>> Well, I'll be honest. When the crime
51:55came through, they they do a thorough
51:57job and they throw everything basically
51:59what they do is throw everything on a
52:00bed
52:01>> um and then they have to lift up the
52:02bed. So then you know the beds were like
52:05in your room the bed was lifted up
52:06against the wall. So, I mean, and to
52:10somebody, a lay person, it would look
52:12like it was ransacked, but
52:14>> there were no I don't remember seeing
52:16any broken TVs. We don't
52:18>> we don't just go and destroy property
52:20like
52:21>> I was just hoping cuz my girlfriend's in
52:24my room. There's a TV for my
52:25girlfriend's dad. That was really,
52:27really important to her.
52:28>> Oh, when we left, cuz I left the bedroom
52:31last, me and him did. The TVs were fine.
52:34They were not broken. Thank you.
52:36>> Um,
52:37>> we moved the we moved the dresser and we
52:39were careful that the TV didn't because
52:40it was sitting on top of the
52:42>> We were trying to get in the Careful.
52:45>> No. So,
52:46>> did you guys stare up at the wall?
52:47>> No.
52:48>> No, we just um
52:49>> You didn't find anything in there,
52:50right?
52:51>> Well, we found that bloody t-shirt, so
52:53that's why we asked you about it.
52:54>> Yeah, I bet you guys didn't find
52:55anything else in there, honey.
52:56>> Some foam, some socks,
53:00>> another t-shirt, a jersey.
53:03>> Yeah, I put that stuff in there. I
53:04wanted it to be sound for
53:06>> sure.
53:07>> I don't like the Yeah. I don't like
53:09hearing other people going at it.
53:10>> So, go getting back to the the the day
53:14that uh Richard's body was burned. You
53:17said that Jerry uh I guess can you
53:20describe that day from the time that you
53:22got up? Just kind of run walk us through
53:24what happened.
53:24>> I can do my best.
53:26>> That's and that's all we're asking.
53:28>> Or maybe it might even be better to work
53:31your way backwards. So Jerry's over
53:32there, he moves the body. What happened
53:34before then?
53:37Before he came over.
53:39>> Before Jerry came over
53:43for
53:47that might make it that might make it
53:48bad if I try to go opposite ways.
53:51>> So just
53:52>> Yeah. Whatever works best for you then.
53:53>> Yeah.
53:55>> See
53:57have to be Thursday, right?
54:00>> Yeah.
54:01>> The fire was on Wednesday. We know that.
54:03Perfect.
54:04>> Yeah. Okay, that's good cuz then I can't
54:08I couldn't remember the days
54:11honestly. Even the days in the year have
54:13been met modeling up for me.
54:17Okay, so Wednesday of fire,
54:20>> correct? Wednesday night.
54:25>> That's why most of what I can remember
54:27is Thursday.
54:29When there's something tragic in my
54:31life, I try to pock it out the best I
54:33can.
54:35Um,
54:39mom was saying the house was starting to
54:41stink
54:43cuz someone came over and said that
54:45house smelled weird.
54:49I know that the day of the fire was the
54:53day that Darren and Tim were out there,
54:59>> but
55:01I can't remember exactly what times.
55:03>> Sure.
55:06>> I'm sorry if this I'm I promise I'm not
55:09trying to like make stories here. Just
55:12trying to remember the best I can and
55:14it's it's all confusing.
55:18cuz my head's trying to forget while I'm
55:21trying to remember.
55:22>> Sure.
55:24>> All I can remember is that picture of
55:28burning. I just I looked at the door
55:31that second and saw
55:44I know Tim came over and said back
55:48[snorts]
55:51uh Jerry was over earlier on that day
55:54and mom was asking if he could help but
55:57she wasn't He said that he would cut out
56:00the body if need be,
56:03but he said he was going to come back
56:05later on in the night to it.
56:07>> Okay.
56:10>> I think he came over around 9ish,
56:15maybe 8ish.
56:17It was dark for sure though. He came
56:19over in that black gone looking.
56:25I wish Jerry was here to be a lot
56:27easier. But
56:30honestly, uh,
56:31>> you wish was here.
56:33>> No, I said honestly I wish Jerry was
56:35here to be a lot easier if he could
56:36tell.
56:37>> Sure. Sure.
56:38>> But, um,
56:41they were carrying a body from
56:45her room to the back. And
56:49the reason he had blood on his knees was
56:50cuz it started to slip out of his hands.
56:53And he yelled for me to grab the corner
56:55of the blanket and carry it out.
56:59>> Okay. And who had got the fire already
57:03started? Who had started that?
57:05>> The fire had been started yet.
57:06>> Oh, okay. I thought you had said that
57:08the fire was going when you carried out
57:09the body.
57:10>> No.
57:10>> Oh, okay.
57:12>> I I I may have said that on accident,
57:14but I didn't mean to say that.
57:15>> Okay.
57:16>> Because at first, uh that's what we
57:19picked up tin foil. We picked up
57:21aluminum foil from uh Walmart, I think.
57:24>> And I was supposed to put aluminum foil
57:26on this old box spring.
57:29>> Okay.
57:29>> Just like a top across it to like the
57:32same concept as heating food over a
57:34fire. Aluminum foil. It helps burn
57:36faster.
57:38And there was only two two lengths long
57:42enough to get across the whole thing.
57:46Then I hear my name being yell and
57:49Jerry's like, "Jaffrey, come help your
57:51mom carry her and it's starting to fall
57:54and it stinks."
57:56And mom is like gagging.
57:58I grabbed the the right hand corner of
58:02the blanket
58:04and then I helped her carry it just to
58:07the door.
58:08As soon as I got to the doorway in the
58:10kitchen, I couldn't anymore. It was so
58:13the smell was so disgusting.
58:19>> Okay. And then what?
58:21>> Then I went to wash my hands and I saw
58:24Jerry and mom put him onto the mattress.
58:30Jerry went to the bathroom and cleaned
58:31the blood off of his legs right away.
58:33And he had to leave right away cuz he I
58:36don't know. He must not have wanted to
58:38be involved much or he had to go
58:40somewhere.
58:41>> Okay. So he didn't cut up the body at
58:43all.
58:44>> No.
58:44>> Okay.
58:45>> Was it cut up?
58:46>> Well, I'm just asking you mentioned that
58:47he had offered to cut
58:49>> He had offered to
58:51>> We couldn't find a chainsaw that wasn't
58:53It's already
58:54property of, you know,
58:57>> property what?
58:58>> Of them. Yeah.
59:01Cuz if you're going to cut somebody if
59:02you're not going to want to use your own
59:03tools.
59:04>> Oh, sure.
59:07>> Okay. So the body now is on this
59:10>> on the mattress outside. Well, at first
59:13it was just on the ground and then they
59:15put it up on the mattress right before
59:17he left.
59:18>> Okay.
59:18>> And the blankets were covering it and
59:20then
59:22I went inside and I sat by Savannah and
59:24I was hugging her because
59:27at that point honestly I felt
59:29traumatized.
59:31So, I guess tell me about the
59:34preparations for that you guys did out
59:37in the back. You said there's a mattress
59:39out there. Kind of explain this to me.
59:40How did this
59:41>> an old uh bed like box spring, you know,
59:44mattress?
59:44>> Okay. And then you put aluminum foil
59:47around the box.
59:48>> I put aluminum foil on like say this is
59:51the box spring here and this is the
59:54underneath part where the wood is.
59:55>> Okay. And I put a layer on the far end
59:58like closest to you and then another one
1:00:01and then it got about like this to the
1:00:05edge till the row ran out.
1:00:08>> Okay. So you had a like a pile of wood
1:00:11out there and then you placed the the
1:00:14mattress on top of the wood.
1:00:16>> No, the mattress was on the just on the
1:00:18ground.
1:00:18>> Okay. The mattress was on the ground.
1:00:20>> Yeah. It had been sitting out there for
1:00:22a while because mom had replaced her old
1:00:24bed. Okay.
1:00:26>> The in the spare room there's a second
1:00:29there's a new mattress on the one
1:00:31underneath the Wonder Woman blanket
1:00:33shirt, you know.
1:00:34>> Okay.
1:00:35>> So, that that mattress had been sitting
1:00:37out there for a while. So, she finally
1:00:40decided that we should just use that.
1:00:43>> So, the thought process was to put the
1:00:45tin foil down and put the body on top of
1:00:48it.
1:00:49I honestly just brought up the tin foil
1:00:52and she said to put the tin foil on
1:00:53there and honestly I had no idea what
1:00:55the [ __ ] I was doing.
1:00:57>> Sure.
1:00:57>> I had no idea whether I should put it on
1:00:59the sides, the inside, the bottom, the
1:01:01top, what? But I just laid two of them
1:01:05down over top and then I try to tuck it
1:01:07into the wood.
1:01:09Then I hear Cherry Jeffrey come help
1:01:12your mom. She's dropping them. So, so
1:01:16you, so the box spring is sitting on the
1:01:18ground and you took the aluminum foil,
1:01:21you put it over the top of the box
1:01:22spring and around and you tuck it
1:01:24underneath the wood of the box spring.
1:01:26>> Yeah, it kind of
1:01:28the wood, you know.
1:01:29>> Okay. Cuz the usually box springs, they
1:01:32don't have any like fabric or anything
1:01:33underneath. It's usually just like wood
1:01:36and the springs are connected to that
1:01:38>> and then usually the the side of the
1:01:40mattress is stapled to the wood and
1:01:42such, you know.
1:01:42>> Yep. I undid one of those staples and
1:01:45put that aluminum foil between the
1:01:47mattress like between the fabric and the
1:01:49wood.
1:01:50>> Okay.
1:01:51>> So then did the body get laid on top of
1:01:53the box spring?
1:01:55>> Yes.
1:01:55>> Okay. along with the trash from the shed
1:01:58in every single room in the house. And
1:02:02uh mom said mom told me about uh hour
1:02:08and a half and just burning that wasn't
1:02:11going well cuz his uh his leg and his
1:02:15arm his arm was upwards like this.
1:02:17>> Okay.
1:02:18>> You could see it.
1:02:20She said it wasn't going well.
1:02:22So she asked me to bring a bunch of
1:02:24wood. I got wood off the trailer by the
1:02:26Mustang.
1:02:27>> Okay.
1:02:29>> Got a bunch of wood off of there and
1:02:31threw it onto there.
1:02:32>> And who collected all the garbage in the
1:02:34house then to put on there?
1:02:36>> Mom didn't.
1:02:37>> Okay.
1:02:39>> After I got all that wood, that's when I
1:02:40actually went to
1:02:43That's when I came inside to
1:02:46Sorry, I got something in my throat.
1:02:49I got that wood off the trailer and I
1:02:51came in through the back gate.
1:02:56It was so hot I could barely walk past
1:02:58the fire.
1:03:01It was my toes were burning from the
1:03:03snow, but my face was burning from the
1:03:05heat.
1:03:07So, I came in and
1:03:10I looked for like a split second as I
1:03:12was closing the door and
1:03:16that was pretty much when I saw his
1:03:18insides coming out.
1:03:20>> Cooler.
1:03:22I don't know.
1:03:22>> And was your mom standing out there the
1:03:24whole time or
1:03:26>> she was standing by the door and out
1:03:28there the whole time?
1:03:29>> Okay.
1:03:29>> She had she wanted to watch it to make
1:03:31sure
1:03:32>> that nobody came by and saw it. And so I
1:03:35was getting up to over the house so it
1:03:39was getting dangerously high.
1:03:41>> Sure.
1:03:42>> And she had me and SP watch like over
1:03:46top of the house for a little bit to
1:03:48make sure that nobody else would see it.
1:03:50I went out the front door and I checked.
1:03:54I said that you couldn't see it over the
1:03:55house.
1:03:57>> Okay.
1:03:57>> That's when the fire was starting to die
1:03:59down.
1:04:01I couldn't stand it. I couldn't stand
1:04:04being there anymore.
1:04:05>> So, did you have to go out and get
1:04:07anything else to put on it after?
1:04:09>> No, I didn't have to put anything else
1:04:11on it.
1:04:12>> Okay.
1:04:12>> Mom was saying the next day that uh when
1:04:16she put it into the barrel, she was
1:04:17saying that it didn't all burn. She had
1:04:19to burn trash multiple times.
1:04:22>> Okay.
1:04:24>> She had to burn like two or three times
1:04:25after that to make sure it all burned in
1:04:27the barrel.
1:04:29I'm sorry for
1:04:31I'm slowly remembering. You guys are
1:04:33helping me remember new details that I I
1:04:35had forgotten. I promise I'm not trying.
1:04:37>> Oh, that's fine. I mean, I get that. You
1:04:39know, as you talk about things, things
1:04:41will trigger that, you know, be like,
1:04:42"Oh, yeah.
1:04:43>> I couldn't remember the wood for a
1:04:45while. I couldn't remember that I went
1:04:46against the trailer because it was so
1:04:49[ __ ] hot and it was middle of the
1:04:50night.
1:04:51>> What kind of wood was it? Like
1:04:53>> like uh
1:04:552x4s type that you build walls
1:04:58>> for for construction paper. Yeah.
1:05:00>> Not like
1:05:04>> Okay.
1:05:05Did you have
1:05:06>> whatever was thin and not wet so that it
1:05:09would burn easy?
1:05:10>> Okay. Did you have to make more than one
1:05:12trip to go get it? I just threw over the
1:05:14fence.
1:05:15>> Oh, okay.
1:05:18>> That's where I got this cut on my hand.
1:05:20>> Okay.
1:05:21>> From one of the nails in the wood.
1:05:25>> And my dogs torn this open twice.
1:05:32>> So then the day after the fire, what'
1:05:36you guys do?
1:05:39>> The day after, I think I slept until
1:05:41about 11. ish, like noonish,
1:05:46I woke up and I went out to look at the
1:05:48backyard. I could see that it's just all
1:05:51been raked. And then
1:05:55um like
1:05:58you know, further back in that spot
1:06:01where the ground had burned for a while,
1:06:03it still was hot enough that the snow
1:06:06wouldn't stick, but everywhere else you
1:06:07could see snow on the ground already.
1:06:09>> Okay.
1:06:10>> Cuz it snowed that very next day.
1:06:13which was luck for them, but still not
1:06:16lucky enough, I guess.
1:06:20>> Um, do you
1:06:24was that the day that the patrol deputy
1:06:26was over at the house then the next day
1:06:28after the fire or was
1:06:29>> I don't even know what he was there.
1:06:31>> Oh, okay. So, you weren't you didn't
1:06:32ever see him or anything?
1:06:33>> No, I must have been in bed or
1:06:35something, but I never saw him.
1:06:37>> Okay. Did your mom tell you about
1:06:39reporting Richard missing? She told me,
1:06:42but uh she didn't tell me that. She did
1:06:46tell me he was in the house. Yeah, she
1:06:48did tell me.
1:06:49>> Okay.
1:06:50>> I was still out of the room watching
1:06:52Netflix, I think,
1:06:54waking up that morning.
1:06:57>> Okay. But you never saw him or anything?
1:06:59>> No, I never saw.
1:07:01>> Okay.
1:07:01>> She said he was uh in the living room
1:07:03and she told me that he has to go into
1:07:06the bedroom and he has to go into the
1:07:09basement.
1:07:11as if he'd already known.
1:07:14>> And did he go into any of those areas?
1:07:16>> He went into the first he went into
1:07:18their bedroom and well, he went into the
1:07:21living room and then the bedroom and she
1:07:23said that they went back into the living
1:07:25room and he asked if they had a basement
1:07:29and then she took him back to the
1:07:30bedroom again to go down to the basement
1:07:33and he was looking around in the
1:07:34basement. Oh,
1:07:35>> and there's this part in the basement
1:07:37where the walls not finished or just
1:07:40where he gets the foundation.
1:07:41>> Mhm.
1:07:42>> And he went and checked in there, too.
1:07:44>> Okay.
1:07:45>> He apparently he didn't want to check
1:07:47anywhere else in the house. He didn't
1:07:48even ask the backyard.
1:07:50>> Okay.
1:07:51>> He didn't he didn't come near to my
1:07:53door.
1:07:55>> Sure.
1:07:57Um, at what point did your mom decide
1:08:00that she needed to call and report him
1:08:02missing? Is that a conversation you guys
1:08:04had or
1:08:05>> I think she had that conversation with
1:08:07Chuck and K.
1:08:08>> Okay.
1:08:09>> Or milk. I'm not sure who she had that
1:08:11conversation with.
1:08:12>> Okay. After the fire, did anybody else
1:08:15come over to the house besides until
1:08:18Friday when you went and got Vinnie?
1:08:30>> Karen. Karen came over.
1:08:35Uh
1:08:37that was while we were uh checking the
1:08:39shed. That was Friday though, I think.
1:08:42>> Okay. And who is Karen?
1:08:44>> That's uh Rick's mom's best friend.
1:08:49>> Okay. Was um Rick providing drugs to his
1:08:54mom?
1:08:54>> Yes.
1:08:55>> Okay. And what was her drug of choice?
1:08:57>> Cocaine.
1:08:57>> Okay.
1:08:58>> And also to his nephew.
1:09:00>> Okay. And what's his name?
1:09:01>> David.
1:09:02>> Okay. And um
1:09:06Karen, you said that's Rick's mom's best
1:09:08friend to her as well.
1:09:10>> Okay. So, what did she come over for?
1:09:12Karen.
1:09:13>> Oh,
1:09:14>> okay. Did you get some?
1:09:16>> Yeah.
1:09:16>> Did Did she get told about anything that
1:09:18happened?
1:09:19>> No, cuz uh she's way too loose.
1:09:22>> Okay.
1:09:22>> Do you know Karen's last name?
1:09:24>> I don't actually.
1:09:26>> How about David? Do you know David's
1:09:27last name?
1:09:29No, but you should be able to find him
1:09:31looking through Stacy. Stacy's son's
1:09:34mom.
1:09:35>> Yeah.
1:09:36>> And does Stacy use any drugs?
1:09:38>> No, she's against them and she would
1:09:40have killed Rick herself if she ever
1:09:41found out that David was getting to
1:09:43Rick.
1:09:43>> Okay.
1:09:45Um,
1:09:48so it sounds like Richard
1:09:52mostly sold the cocaine and then your
1:09:55mom sold the meth, but he mostly sold
1:09:58coke, but he also sold nut.
1:10:00>> Okay.
1:10:01>> Cuz he kept mom was telling me that he
1:10:03kept stealing your drugs.
1:10:05>> Okay.
1:10:06>> And she sold coke on the side sometimes,
1:10:08too.
1:10:09>> But she mostly sold that.
1:10:11>> Mhm.
1:10:11>> Okay. and he uh
1:10:15she had this theory once that he
1:10:19introduced me to it to partially control
1:10:22her.
1:10:23>> Okay. And when did he introduce you to
1:10:25cocaine then?
1:10:40at least a year ago.
1:10:41>> Okay.
1:10:42>> I haven't been doing it constantly. I
1:10:44promise that.
1:10:45>> How often are you using it?
1:10:47>> I don't have money for that in our
1:10:50just every once in a while. Just when I
1:10:52need it to stay up and help somebody.
1:10:55So um during a week in a week how how
1:10:59often were you using in a week?
1:11:02>> Depends wheat.
1:11:04>> Okay.
1:11:06>> The last week I think I only did one
1:11:10because I did not want anything to be in
1:11:11my system
1:11:13case.
1:11:15>> And when you say one, how much did you
1:11:17use at that time?
1:11:19>> About this.
1:11:20>> Okay. So a line is what you're talking
1:11:21about.
1:11:21>> Yeah, that's right.
1:11:22>> Perfect. Um, but that could go up in in
1:11:26a week on a normal week before.
1:11:29>> Oh, I never did I never did lots. I
1:11:32never did a big amount. I
1:11:36Mom told me that if I did pick drugs,
1:11:39they would ride away my teeth.
1:11:40>> Okay.
1:11:41>> My teeth literally [ __ ] enough from
1:11:44him.
1:11:48>> Punched my punched me in the jaw and
1:11:49broke two of my teeth. Oh,
1:11:50>> that rock since probably because of the
1:11:54drugs.
1:11:55>> Have you ever tried meth?
1:11:59>> Uh, once but not knowingly.
1:12:03>> Okay.
1:12:04>> Or my first ever date when I was 18. And
1:12:06I was given meth and I was told I was
1:12:08smoking something. And
1:12:12then I found out six months later that
1:12:15someone had actually giving me math and
1:12:17that's why I sat in the car for 3 hours
1:12:20not sure what to say while my date was
1:12:22waiting on the sidewalk watching me.
1:12:24>> Okay.
1:12:27After that day, have you used any meth?
1:12:29>> Oh no, no, no, no. I'm against it. I'm
1:12:31>> b heroin or that. I'm against that.
1:12:34>> Okay. Mom used to when I was 16, mom was
1:12:39suicidal and she would threaten to kill
1:12:41herself with her needles.
1:12:44>> Okay.
1:12:46>> So I I was always against that.
1:12:49Honestly, the only drugs I had used was
1:12:51co
1:12:53well I guess but indifference knowingly.
1:12:57>> So how often would your mom use drugs?
1:13:01Was she like a daily user type deal or
1:13:05>> um Oh, for one of the things he thought
1:13:08I was doing, the crack, that was her.
1:13:10>> Okay.
1:13:12>> She smoked crack at night.
1:13:14>> Okay.
1:13:15>> Trying to help with her uh she was doing
1:13:17research on her case at night because he
1:13:19was a little [ __ ] about it. If she
1:13:22didn't spend all day with him doing
1:13:24exactly what he wanted, he wouldn't
1:13:25spend any time with her.
1:13:27>> Okay. So at night she had to smoke and
1:13:30do all her case work at night. I ran
1:13:33into her maybe two or three times when I
1:13:35woke up in the middle of the night to go
1:13:36to the bathroom.
1:13:37>> Okay.
1:13:39And was she the one that was messed or
1:13:45>> he used to before probation?
1:13:47>> Okay.
1:13:50And Rick, what drugs was he using? I
1:13:54know he did coke. I
1:13:58know he did something else.
1:14:00He was talking about shadow people.
1:14:02>> Okay. So neither one of them as far as
1:14:05you know were doing heroin.
1:14:10>> I know mom would never do it because she
1:14:12promised me on her life.
1:14:15>> But then again promises on life don't
1:14:17mean much.
1:14:20So, to kind of get back because you
1:14:22didn't really answer and we're trying to
1:14:24be open and honest, on a weekly basis
1:14:27before this last week, how many times
1:14:30would you use cocaine? Are we talking
1:14:32one to two times, three to four, five to
1:14:35six?
1:14:37>> Okay.
1:14:38>> Um, otherwise for the marijuana, looked
1:14:40at like an everyday thing, smoking
1:14:42marijuana or just two times a week.
1:14:44>> Could be whatever day I need it. It
1:14:47could be every day, but I tried not to
1:14:49make it an everyday thing. And lately,
1:14:52it's been a maybe one to two of a week
1:14:54thing because I knew I needed to settle
1:14:57down because soon enough I'd be in the
1:14:59house.
1:15:00>> Okay. Um, and as far as Savannah, did
1:15:04you get her into using the coke cocaine?
1:15:08>> Rick, too.
1:15:09>> Okay. Um,
1:15:12and was she using the same amount as you
1:15:15or was she using
1:15:16>> less than you? Oh god.
1:15:18>> I didn't want her to be addicted ever.
1:15:22>> Sure. Do you feel like she is?
1:15:25>> No.
1:15:26>> Okay.
1:15:26>> I don't think I am, but
1:15:30I've I wouldn't know what addiction
1:15:32really is towards that yet. So,
1:15:35>> Sure. I mean, do you feel like if you
1:15:37never used it again that you'd be okay
1:15:39with that?
1:15:40>> I do.
1:15:41>> Okay.
1:15:41>> Because I feel like it's been a big
1:15:43problem up to now.
1:15:44>> Sure. And since hopefully
1:15:48>> is it possible after this that I could
1:15:51end up somehow doing house arrest
1:15:52instead of jail?
1:15:56>> Uh that is something you
1:15:58>> could you bring that up with the DA?
1:15:59>> You'll go to court and they'll talk
1:16:01about bonds. You know, do
1:16:03>> you think I have a chance to bond with
1:16:05my charges? Does he know what they
1:16:07already possibly are?
1:16:10>> Do I think there's a chance? Always.
1:16:11Yes.
1:16:12>> Be really high.
1:16:14>> I if if based on my past experience with
1:16:18court, I would assume that they would
1:16:19ask for some sort of cash bond. So,
1:16:22you'd have to post the cash.
1:16:24>> Yeah.
1:16:25>> How much it's going to be? Honestly, I
1:16:26have no idea.
1:16:27>> Wondering if you think there's a good
1:16:29chance that me and Savannah might
1:16:30actually get to spend sometime this year
1:16:33together.
1:16:35>> That's going to be I honestly I would
1:16:37just wait till you go to court. I
1:16:39wouldn't get too upset at all. Just wait
1:16:40and see what's going to happen.
1:16:42>> I'll say this. I think your cooperation
1:16:44is probably going to help your
1:16:46>> Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. I'm
1:16:48That's why I messaged uh the sergeant
1:16:50because I was hoping that okay, the
1:16:53sooner that I cooperate, the sooner this
1:16:55court's done, the sooner maybe I could
1:16:56get house arrest.
1:16:58Is it possible that the two of us could
1:17:00get house arrest together? I know that
1:17:02there I will say this obviously we do
1:17:04have a um
1:17:07um
1:17:09yeah
1:17:09>> is it possible we could do that
1:17:10together?
1:17:11>> I just I don't know that they they use
1:17:13that necessarily for when you're on
1:17:15bond. It's more after you've been
1:17:18charged and convicted that they use that
1:17:20to serve your you know what I mean like
1:17:23it's more of a instead of going to jail
1:17:26you would get the equal sort of thing. I
1:17:29don't know about that, but like between
1:17:31So that means
1:17:32>> they don't like to use it for bonds
1:17:34because um it costs money. Yeah.
1:17:37>> And so you would so you may never be
1:17:40convicted, you know, in the court's eyes
1:17:43of the charges you're getting charged.
1:17:44So why make you pay money for something
1:17:47that you haven't been found guilt guilty
1:17:49on? Whereas afterwards when you've
1:17:51already been sentenced, you're obviously
1:17:53been found guilty. So now they're
1:17:55charging you to
1:17:56>> between bond and being found guilty
1:17:58because that mean I still have to sit in
1:18:01here
1:18:02>> if you weren't able to post the cash.
1:18:04>> Okay.
1:18:05>> All right. Sorry. Back to where you
1:18:06were.
1:18:07>> Um
1:18:08>> so I got pee after this.
1:18:10>> Yeah, I think we're almost done here.
1:18:12Um,
1:18:14as far as for me, oh, the relationship I
1:18:18guess that your mom and Richard had
1:18:21before this incident happened, how would
1:18:23you describe their relationship?
1:18:27>> In what in what terms do you mean?
1:18:30>> Did they like each other? Did they love
1:18:32each other?
1:18:33>> She loved him more than anything. And
1:18:35honestly, I'm not sure how he felt
1:18:36because he never communicated.
1:18:38>> Okay. He had trouble communicating his
1:18:41emotions and actually that stems from
1:18:43his father Vince.
1:18:45>> Okay.
1:18:45>> His father Vince uh have problems
1:18:49showing love I guess.
1:18:52>> And how did like Richard treat your mom
1:18:55and how did your mom treat Richard as
1:18:57far as what you what?
1:19:01>> They argued but as far as violence, she
1:19:05never got violent with him but he did
1:19:06get violent with her.
1:19:08>> Okay.
1:19:09And that's honest truth. I'm not just
1:19:11saying that to make her look like a
1:19:12better person.
1:19:13>> Sure.
1:19:14>> You could probably tell by the bathtub
1:19:16uh faucet in their their master bedroom.
1:19:20That bathroom, if you ever looked at
1:19:22that bath tub, one of the faucets is
1:19:25broken. That's that was her head that
1:19:27broke that.
1:19:28>> Okay.
1:19:28>> When he threw her into it.
1:19:30>> And why did he do that? What was going
1:19:33on? Because every time she tries to ask
1:19:36him about him cheating while she was in
1:19:38jail, he avoids the subject and gets
1:19:40violent.
1:19:42>> Okay.
1:19:43>> And how long ago was this bathtub
1:19:45incident?
1:19:48>> Eight, nine months maybe.
1:19:50>> And did she have any injuries from that
1:19:52if she hit her head?
1:19:53>> She did, but I don't know if she ever
1:19:55recorded it.
1:19:56>> Okay.
1:19:57She was bleeding or
1:19:59>> Yeah, she came freaking out cuz her I
1:20:03think her wrist she said it might have
1:20:04been broken.
1:20:06>> Okay. Did she have to get go to the
1:20:08hospital and
1:20:08>> No, she wouldn't she wouldn't go. Even
1:20:10if she had to, she wouldn't.
1:20:12>> Okay.
1:20:14>> She don't want to get in trouble.
1:20:16>> Any other incidences uh where she was
1:20:18injured or
1:20:20>> 20?
1:20:22>> When was the most recent?
1:20:25>> Um
1:20:31How about when he smashed your phone?
1:20:33>> Okay. And how long ago with that?
1:20:36>> Um, you know how I have three phones?
1:20:38Yeah. Did you find that third phone on
1:20:41the shelf?
1:20:42>> We found lots of phones in your room.
1:20:46>> Okay. So, well, you guys probably found
1:20:49my old iPhone.
1:20:51>> I think there was an iPhone in there. my
1:20:54well my girlfriend's old iPhone my old
1:20:56blue iPod was in there as well that
1:20:59>> and my old uh my old Smash Samsung
1:21:01should be in a box in there.
1:21:04>> Hopefully you guys can go through that
1:21:05cuz that's got a lot of my private
1:21:06pictures in
1:21:08>> like but
1:21:08>> well we unfortunately
1:21:10>> we go through everything but
1:21:12>> you guys don't keep pictures right?
1:21:14>> No.
1:21:15>> Okay.
1:21:16But um
1:21:20there should have been a black phone in
1:21:22there relatively new with a case on it
1:21:24that like magnet case on it. Mom had one
1:21:28just like that and so did he because
1:21:30recently he smashed her phone.
1:21:33>> Okay.
1:21:34>> He completely broke it.
1:21:36>> And that was a fight that they had about
1:21:38cheating or was it about something else?
1:21:40>> Mhm.
1:21:41>> Okay.
1:21:42>> She wanted to find out and she was
1:21:44looking at on her phone and he took it
1:21:47out of her phone, took it out of her
1:21:48hand and completely smashed it.
1:21:50>> Okay.
1:21:52Um, any other incidents that you
1:21:54remember where she had any other
1:21:56injuries?
1:21:58>> Uh, I know within the first three months
1:22:01that I went there, she she wanted to
1:22:04leave him and he wouldn't let her leave.
1:22:09He closed the door and barricaded all
1:22:12her stuff into one spot and he had the
1:22:15door closed on her arm right here
1:22:19and I had to rush it like his in
1:22:21football just to open it. He almost cut
1:22:24off circulation to her arm.
1:22:26>> Okay.
1:22:28And did you and Richard ever get in any
1:22:30physical altercations or
1:22:32>> Me and Rick were always
1:22:33>> her trying to protect?
1:22:35>> I've never gotten I've never gotten into
1:22:37any serious fights. Me and Rick.
1:22:39>> Okay. So, you have to break up anything?
1:22:41>> No, me and Rick, we actually sometimes
1:22:43we played video games together. We
1:22:45played Call of Duty Cold War.
1:22:46>> Okay.
1:22:48>> And uh since that since that time with
1:22:51the AR personally had to get involved in
1:22:53their fights.
1:22:55>> Okay. Um
1:22:58was was Rick ever upset
1:23:02um
1:23:03with you about the cocaine use? And
1:23:06because it sounds like, you know, you
1:23:07really don't have a lot of money coming
1:23:09in, did he ever front you cocaine or
1:23:12give you cocaine?
1:23:12>> No, mom had to buy it from him.
1:23:15>> Okay.
1:23:15>> At first, he was trying to get me into
1:23:17it to make mom jealous because, oh, I'm
1:23:21controlling your son. I got him in my
1:23:22palm of my hand type thing. And then
1:23:26all of a sudden, like he started being
1:23:29didn't do any with her at all. And
1:23:34like I wanted to do a one with her at
1:23:36some point and him just to see how it
1:23:39was like see what they were really
1:23:41trying to do together I guess they like
1:23:44doing it together and I guess it would
1:23:46make stuff fun.
1:23:48>> Sure.
1:23:49>> I tried and he didn't want to. So I end
1:23:53up asking mom and either she'd buy it
1:23:58from him or the runs I on the side. I
1:24:01have to pay for him. Pay it for him. But
1:24:05also during co I used my co check to buy
1:24:08>> okay
1:24:08>> something from him.
1:24:10>> Um
1:24:11>> I went down to Chicago with my buddies
1:24:13and I bought $400 worth from him and we
1:24:17went down there for like
1:24:20a week. The 10 of us.
1:24:23>> Okay.
1:24:24>> 11 of us actually.
1:24:25>> So did they have like I know you said
1:24:27that they both sold drugs. They sell
1:24:30drugs together or did they have like
1:24:33their separate
1:24:35>> where they kept it?
1:24:36>> Kept things separate.
1:24:38>> Well,
1:24:40be when he was still there, it was
1:24:42separate. Uh it was his was in his uh
1:24:47dark jewelry box at the end of the last
1:24:49side of the bed.
1:24:50>> Okay.
1:24:51>> And hers was next to her bathroom door
1:24:54in that jewelry box by a candy machine.
1:24:57>> Okay.
1:25:01That smile I saw.
1:25:03>> All right. So, when they bought drugs,
1:25:04did they did they also
1:25:06>> buy them together?
1:25:07>> They bought them together
1:25:08>> from the same people from this uh Sean,
1:25:11you said.
1:25:11>> Mhm.
1:25:12>> Okay. And how and and what?
1:25:15>> I don't know any other dealers they had
1:25:17to be honest. But
1:25:18>> what did Sean drive? You said it was a
1:25:19silver. Was it a silver? Did they tell
1:25:22you what it was?
1:25:22>> Yeah.
1:25:23>> Okay.
1:25:24>> So, I'm I'm getting a silver van with
1:25:25the black rims mixed up with somebody
1:25:27else. him. Okay. So, what did Sean drive
1:25:30then? Do you know?
1:25:30>> I don't know. I don't know. Cuz
1:25:35he uh it was a red red something cuz uh
1:25:41they had to meet him in Sparta once, but
1:25:42he couldn't go away. His wife was in the
1:25:45hospital for something. He had a white
1:25:48girl.
1:25:49He's black and his girl's white. Okay.
1:25:54So, when you say that you're running
1:25:56errands for them, would you ever go
1:25:58would they ever give you money to go?
1:26:00>> No, I I didn't I didn't go pick up those
1:26:02drugs because I'm not willing to do
1:26:03that.
1:26:04>> Okay.
1:26:05>> Cuz Savannah would have to drive me
1:26:06without my license. So, that would all
1:26:08go under her.
1:26:10>> Oh, okay.
1:26:10>> So, I'm not willing to put that much on
1:26:12her.
1:26:13>> Okay.
1:26:14>> No, I always made them.
1:26:18So, um, Richard,
1:26:22was he ever upset with you about any
1:26:27drug stuff? Like, was he did he like not
1:26:30want you in the house anymore or
1:26:34like had he ever asked you to move out?
1:26:37>> No, he hadn't, actually.
1:26:39>> Okay. And as far as you know, you guys
1:26:41had no issues where he wanted you
1:26:44>> as far as I know, the only issue he had
1:26:46with me was the fact that mom
1:26:49had someone else to talk to.
1:26:52>> Okay?
1:26:52>> Because without me there, she had no one
1:26:54to talk to. So everything he said was
1:26:58like law.
1:26:59>> Okay?
1:27:01>> She always told me that without me
1:27:03there, she wouldn't have anybody to talk
1:27:05to.
1:27:07>> Let me ask you this. What was your plan
1:27:09after your mother went to prison?
1:27:14>> Stay there in the house. So, you're
1:27:16going to be continuing living with Rick
1:27:17in the house?
1:27:19>> Yeah. I assumed he would have just kept
1:27:21doing his business and I would have just
1:27:25moved out to my dad's.
1:27:27>> Okay. So, all right.
1:27:31>> I wanted to move out to my dad's farm so
1:27:33I could help him get it back up and
1:27:34running.
1:27:35>> Okay.
1:27:37>> My dad's got had to get rid of all his
1:27:40cows. either that or they had planned
1:27:43they had talked about building a house
1:27:45out on Vince's farm and they were going
1:27:47to take the camper out there. My mom
1:27:49said that uh if I needed to I could go
1:27:52stay in the house, but they never built
1:27:54that house.
1:27:57>> So, um I'm just going to bring this up
1:27:59because it was brought up to us. This is
1:28:01the only reason why I'm asking you this.
1:28:03Okay.
1:28:05We were told that you killed Richard and
1:28:10your mom's trying to cover it up.
1:28:11>> What?
1:28:12>> So that's what somebody told us.
1:28:13>> Who said that?
1:28:14>> Well, I can't tell you who said that.
1:28:16>> Check my Check my hands. I don't have
1:28:18any Don't cover.
1:28:20>> Well, I'm just asking, you know.
1:28:21>> No, I'm serious. I'm serious. I didn't
1:28:23do it.
1:28:24>> Okay.
1:28:24>> I didn't do it. I'm not going to jail
1:28:27for somebody else's [ __ ]
1:28:28>> Okay. Well, I just have to ask because
1:28:31>> I'm not going to jail for mom's crime.
1:28:32It was something that was brought up to
1:28:34us, you know, and I could certainly see
1:28:38if something happened where Richard was
1:28:40hitting on your mom, you know, you're
1:28:41trying to protect her sort of thing.
1:28:43That's why
1:28:44>> No.
1:28:44>> Okay.
1:28:45>> I didn't do it.
1:28:46>> Okay.
1:28:47>> Do it.
1:28:48>> I just want my girlfriend
1:28:51with her. I didn't do this. I was
1:28:53willing to move away from them to get
1:28:55away from their fighting. I didn't want
1:28:57to be near their fighting anymore.
1:29:00>> True. Did your
1:29:02>> I didn't do this. I promise. I promise.
1:29:05I will take a million lie detector
1:29:07tests. I didn't do it.
1:29:08>> So be before um Richard was killed. Did
1:29:14you have guns in your room?
1:29:17>> Before Richard only that one that's up
1:29:19on top of the shelf and the one that's
1:29:20behind the door that's full. I see just
1:29:22a hunting rifle and that one that's up
1:29:24on top of the shelf.
1:29:25>> The shotgun.
1:29:26>> Yeah. Mom gave me that the day after
1:29:30day after [ __ ]
1:29:34day after
1:29:39day after [ __ ] Milk came over. She
1:29:41gave me that one.
1:29:42>> Okay. And how long have you had the one
1:29:44behind the door then?
1:29:45>> That one was sitting behind the
1:29:47recliner.
1:29:49It had been there for about a month
1:29:50because my sister was going to get it
1:29:52for her
1:29:54engagement gift. Okay.
1:29:56>> I promise I didn't do it. I didn't.
1:29:58>> So, did Richard and your mom normally
1:30:01have guns out in the rest of the house?
1:30:04>> They had plenty of guns out in the shed,
1:30:07but
1:30:08>> did they ever known they moved most of
1:30:11them off the property?
1:30:12>> Okay. So, lately before Richard was
1:30:16killed, you didn't see any guns out?
1:30:17>> No, I didn't.
1:30:19>> Okay. Do you know where your mom got
1:30:21that gun then?
1:30:22>> No, I don't. I imagine she had to get it
1:30:25from Mil Shawn. I don't know. I don't
1:30:27know.
1:30:28>> Okay.
1:30:29>> I didn't do this. Who told you I did it?
1:30:32>> I I can't tell you that.
1:30:33>> Vinnie.
1:30:34>> I can't tell you that.
1:30:37>> [ __ ] Of course, he's going to try and
1:30:38lie to get me. [ __ ]
1:30:40>> Why do you think Vinnie would say that?
1:30:43>> Cuz he just he'll do anything to get his
1:30:45[ __ ] name cleared.
1:30:48>> Okay, but why would he say that
1:30:49specifically? Did you tell him? gay and
1:30:52I don't like him. And I told him I don't
1:30:53like him.
1:30:55>> Okay.
1:30:57>> I kept telling him, "Stop spreading my
1:31:00name around town." And I kept yelling at
1:31:02him.
1:31:05>> Did you tell uh Vinnie what happened
1:31:07with Rick?
1:31:08>> No, I never did.
1:31:10>> Okay. Did any of those three people,
1:31:12Matthew, Michael that were at the house
1:31:15with Vinnie?
1:31:16>> Oh, Matthew was his brother.
1:31:18>> Yes.
1:31:19So
1:31:19>> the three of them came at the same time.
1:31:20They shouldn't even known.
1:31:22>> Okay. So as far as you know, they didn't
1:31:23know.
1:31:24>> They shouldn't have known.
1:31:25>> Okay.
1:31:27>> That's why I'm wondering where you got
1:31:28this from.
1:31:29>> So what was the point of
1:31:31>> So what was the point of them coming to
1:31:34the house?
1:31:36>> Never say that. She knows it's not true.
1:31:40>> So you're sleeping together that night.
1:31:44Why?
1:31:46>> Why? What was the point of Vinnie,
1:31:48Matthew, and Michael coming to the
1:31:50house?
1:31:50>> Vinnie and Matthew and Michael were
1:31:52supposed to clean out the shed, but
1:31:54Matthew and Michael were sitting there
1:31:56helping mom list uh weapons and other
1:32:01[ __ ] online to sell so that there'd be
1:32:03more money.
1:32:04>> Okay. And where online were they listing
1:32:06those?
1:32:06>> I don't know cuz I she sent me a video
1:32:09to clear the shed together and that was
1:32:11really annoying, but I did it. me,
1:32:13Savannah, and Vinnie went out cuz
1:32:15Savannah at first she was sleeping and
1:32:17then I went in and woke her up and I
1:32:20told her I didn't want to spend any time
1:32:21alone with Kai.
1:32:23>> Okay. So, what did you guys end up
1:32:25removing from the shed then?
1:32:29>> Just the bullets, the 22 bullets.
1:32:32>> Okay. Anything else that you took out of
1:32:34the shed?
1:32:34>> No, there were there was a case of 522
1:32:38bullets out of 50 of them.
1:32:40>> Okay.
1:32:43There's only five left. Anyway, this is
1:32:44from school box. I'll be right back.
1:32:49>> Not bad.
1:32:50>> No, my pen is running out of ink.
1:32:52>> Oh, you want to use this one?
1:32:54>> I'll be right back.
1:32:55>> Okay.
1:32:56Um,
1:32:59so you removed the bullets out of there,
1:33:01but you didn't find any guns. You found
1:33:04some powder.
1:33:05>> I promise I didn't kill him. I didn't.
1:33:08Well, why are you so concerned that like
1:33:11Savannah would say that if it didn't?
1:33:12>> No, I'm I'm not concerned of thinking
1:33:15who else would have said it because
1:33:17Savannah's the only one other than me
1:33:19that got arrested and she knows damn
1:33:21well I didn't do it.
1:33:22>> Well, we're talking to other people who
1:33:24haven't been arrested. You don't talking
1:33:26to a lot of people.
1:33:27>> Okay, that makes more sense. You didn't
1:33:29tell me that.
1:33:30>> Uh well, I suppose we talked to a lot of
1:33:32people so far, but
1:33:33>> I I don't know who exactly knows that.
1:33:36>> Okay. Bill knows. So Milt knows, Jerry
1:33:40knows.
1:33:42Who else?
1:33:42>> Tim might know.
1:33:44>> Okay. Tim, possibly.
1:33:46>> Chuck,
1:33:48>> Chuck, Kathy. Anybody else?
1:33:50>> Somebody else knows. Small was on the
1:33:52phone with someone.
1:33:54>> I don't know who that other person is
1:33:56though.
1:33:58She was on the phone with someone
1:33:59talking about it. I think Darren might
1:34:01know, too.
1:34:02>> Okay.
1:34:04Darren was the former neighbor's nephew.
1:34:10>> Okay.
1:34:12>> And who was that? The
1:34:13>> So, you guys are trying to charge me
1:34:15with his murder.
1:34:16>> No, I didn't say that. I said I'm asking
1:34:18you about it cuz it's brought up to us.
1:34:21>> I didn't do it. I promise. I will take a
1:34:24life test right here now. Okay.
1:34:26>> I I volunteered to let you guys swap my
1:34:29hands because I've never fired a gun
1:34:32since I've
1:34:3313. Since I was 13, I haven't fired a
1:34:35gun.
1:34:36>> Okay. I'm just asking about cuz brought
1:34:38up, you know, that's the only I I won't
1:34:40know unless they have a grave.
1:34:42>> Yeah.
1:34:42>> So, you said Darren was who now? A
1:34:44former neighbor's son?
1:34:47>> Nephew, I think.
1:34:48>> Nephew. Okay. Four.
1:34:50>> And who is that neighbor then?
1:34:52>> I don't know her. It's the girl in the
1:34:53red house across the road who got Uh, I
1:34:57don't know. I I tried bringing up the
1:35:00like figuring out who she was, I guess,
1:35:02a couple times, but she I guess rented
1:35:05from over there, but then I asked again
1:35:08and she got kicked out, but she's
1:35:10sleeping with the owner of the place.
1:35:12So,
1:35:14>> okay.
1:35:16>> But Dan isn't related to the red house
1:35:19across the road.
1:35:20>> Okay.
1:35:22>> You're Are you recording this? This
1:35:25Yeah, this room is recorded.
1:35:26>> Yeah,
1:35:27>> this is I don't have the watch, so I
1:35:30It's 10:43.
1:35:32>> So,
1:35:35>> um I think we're almost done. I think I
1:35:37don't Is there anything else that
1:35:42you think that we need to know about
1:35:44what happened to Richard?
1:36:05Okay. Um, when
1:36:06>> you guys you guys asking the questions
1:36:08is helping me remember everything.
1:36:10>> Sure. When you went to Walmart, you said
1:36:13that was on Friday to get stuff. Yes,
1:36:17because Friday morning I went I know
1:36:19that for sure. That's that's one of the
1:36:21only days that I know for sure what I
1:36:23did.
1:36:23>> Did you guys buy curtains? New curtain?
1:36:27>> Uh we got blue curtains for the living
1:36:29room. Two sets and uh no four sets blue
1:36:34curtains for the living room and two
1:36:36sets of burgundy curtains for her back
1:36:38bedroom.
1:36:39>> Okay. What happened to the curtains that
1:36:40were in the bedroom?
1:36:43>> I don't know. I think she threw them
1:36:44onto the fire.
1:36:46>> Okay. She said they were too short
1:36:48because when uh when we went out to the
1:36:51shed,
1:36:53I also noticed that
1:36:58noticed what she meant by that when
1:37:01like afterwards after getting the
1:37:03curtains, I noticed what she meant. They
1:37:05were about this far from off the ground.
1:37:08So,
1:37:10good thing I did get those back because
1:37:11it was too late anyways.
1:37:14You mean afraid of of people being able
1:37:18to look into the the room? Is that what
1:37:20you mean?
1:37:21>> Yeah.
1:37:21>> Okay.
1:37:22>> Personally,
1:37:24I promised her and I'm so promise I'm
1:37:27never going into that bedroom ever
1:37:29again.
1:37:31>> So, did anything else get thrown away
1:37:34from the bedroom beside the comforter
1:37:36and the curtain?
1:37:39>> Okay. And the curtains?
1:37:40>> And the curtains.
1:37:41>> Anything else? I don't even know if the
1:37:42curtains were thrown away cuz I don't
1:37:44know if she had time to change them.
1:37:46>> Okay.
1:37:48>> Um
1:37:53>> anyway, she probably threw away her
1:37:55night gown.
1:37:58She usually wears night about it.
1:37:59>> Okay.
1:38:00>> Pink one.
1:38:02>> Did it have um blood on it?
1:38:05>> I I don't know. That's why I said I
1:38:07imagine.
1:38:07>> Okay. cuz it's usually this pink and
1:38:10black hearted night girl.
1:38:15I don't know if you found it or not.
1:38:18If you didn't find it, I assume it got
1:38:19burnt then.
1:38:21>> Okay.
1:38:22>> Because I don't know how long she took
1:38:25to wake me up. I don't know how long it
1:38:28was in between when she came pounding my
1:38:29door and saying she killed him.
1:38:31>> Okay.
1:38:35Oh, as far as
1:38:38I guess but what time did you make a
1:38:40decision or was it no decision at all in
1:38:42your mind to help your mom?
1:38:45Was that what happened?
1:38:49>> I didn't want to help the first day, but
1:38:54once it got to the point of just calling
1:38:56checking Kathy, that was the first point
1:38:57I helped out.
1:38:59>> Wait. And why did you decide to continue
1:39:01to help her out?
1:39:03>> Because I didn't want mom to go to jail
1:39:06because I know that she's got lupus
1:39:08kidney failure and liver failure and a
1:39:10lot of them in stage three and I don't
1:39:12want to lose her in jail.
1:39:14>> Oh, but she was already going to prison
1:39:15for 3 years starting on Saturday. Right.
1:39:19>> Yeah.
1:39:21She uh
1:39:25she told me there was a chance she might
1:39:27skip jail.
1:39:29By doing what?
1:39:32>> She told me there's a chance since she
1:39:33had killed him that she might skip jail
1:39:36to help me figure out what to do.
1:39:40>> She wanted to go on her own.
1:39:44>> Okay. So, she told you she
1:39:50>> There wasn't I wouldn't be able to
1:39:51handle the questioning.
1:39:56I wouldn't be able to handle all the
1:39:58business, handle all the dogs, the cats.
1:40:04>> So, this wasn't anything. She didn't
1:40:06like plans to kill Richard.
1:40:09>> No, as far as I know, she didn't plan to
1:40:11kill him.
1:40:12>> Okay. But after she killed him, she
1:40:14thought about going on the run so that
1:40:16you didn't have to deal with everything.
1:40:18Is that what I'm understanding? I think
1:40:22from her point of view, she was going to
1:40:23say that her and him went off on a run
1:40:25together.
1:40:26>> Okay.
1:40:29>> Did she say where she would go?
1:40:31>> She was going to go out to dad's farm.
1:40:34>> Okay.
1:40:37>> So, at at any point during this besides
1:40:40you, you know, wanting to help your mom
1:40:42out so she didn't go to prison, did you
1:40:44ever think about that you were helping
1:40:47her out because you were also helping
1:40:48yourself?
1:40:50just means
1:40:51>> well if you're helping her then
1:40:55you're also helping yourself not to get
1:40:57in trouble then right
1:41:00>> well
1:41:01>> for helping you know you're trying to
1:41:02cover things up so that she doesn't get
1:41:04caught cuz then they'll when if she gets
1:41:06caught then they also find out that you
1:41:07helped helped her right uh
1:41:11>> honestly I don't think anything that I
1:41:13did is
1:41:16punishable
1:41:18Okay.
1:41:20>> I up until
1:41:22>> Why do you feel that way?
1:41:23>> That's up until one point though. Up
1:41:26until I helped her and Jerry carry the
1:41:28body onto the fire. I I should have been
1:41:32I would have been legally a consequence
1:41:34or anything.
1:41:36>> Well,
1:41:36>> except for the knowing it.
1:41:38>> Well, you knew and didn't say anything.
1:41:40>> Yes. I mean,
1:41:41>> that's what I mean. Except for the
1:41:42knowing,
1:41:43>> you know. Um, but you
1:41:47you guys were I mean we have people
1:41:50>> like you're still trying to blame
1:41:51someone.
1:41:52>> I think you're culpable for some of this
1:41:55and you're not realizing it.
1:41:58>> I didn't do this. I did.
1:42:00>> You didn't kill him.
1:42:01>> No, I didn't.
1:42:01>> But you did help cover it up.
1:42:04>> You know what I mean?
1:42:05>> So, I mean, you took steps to further so
1:42:08that she didn't get caught.
1:42:10>> Yeah.
1:42:11time with my mother and I was hoping
1:42:13that the case that was currently going
1:42:15on. She said that with Rick missing that
1:42:18there was a chance that uh her current
1:42:20case would be called off as of uh some
1:42:24brief or something like that. Her
1:42:25husband being missing she thought maybe
1:42:27that the judge in Dun County would give
1:42:29her
1:42:32like a a period of grievance or some
1:42:35[ __ ]
1:42:35>> Okay. So, I mean, as far as like the
1:42:38steps that you took, I mean, like you
1:42:40said, you um with with Mills even, I
1:42:45mean, you went and brought this barrel
1:42:47back knowing that it could possibly be
1:42:50used to store his body or the burned
1:42:53remnants of his body. You brought the
1:42:55diesel back.
1:42:57>> I didn't know what the diesel was for
1:43:00until I got to the house. I honestly
1:43:01thought it was for the lawnmower.
1:43:03>> Okay. Why would you need it for the lawn
1:43:05mower? in winter
1:43:07>> because he used to go long and plow the
1:43:09driveway.
1:43:10>> Okay.
1:43:11>> It's one of those with the plow thing on
1:43:13the front
1:43:14>> up top.
1:43:15>> Okay. But you you still brought the
1:43:17barrel back and put it in the backyard.
1:43:20>> I figured it was because the other two
1:43:21trash barrels were actually full at the
1:43:24time, but then once we got back to the
1:43:26house, I was like,
1:43:28"Yeah, that's not what that's for."
1:43:31Um, I mean, like you said, you helped
1:43:35carry the body for a short distance out
1:43:38there.
1:43:38>> Just about 5t.
1:43:40>> Yeah.
1:43:40>> Between the bathroom, back door.
1:43:42>> That was went for the fire.
1:43:45>> Yeah. Only from on the other side of the
1:43:47fence.
1:43:48>> Yeah. But that's still
1:43:50>> You need an attorney right here cuz I
1:43:52feel like you're trying to blame this on
1:43:54me right now. I'm just I mean again we
1:43:58can't give you legal advice right know
1:43:59what your rights are. I'm explaining to
1:44:01you because you don't seem to understand
1:44:04>> what your role was in this
1:44:07>> and we appreciate you being honest but I
1:44:09just want you to understand
1:44:10>> I've been honest. I didn't do this.
1:44:13>> Well, I know but you still helped your
1:44:15mom.
1:44:15>> I help I helped mom but I didn't kill
1:44:17him.
1:44:18>> I'm not saying that you did. Okay. I'm
1:44:20not saying that you did. One of your
1:44:21witnesses thinks Ty and that's
1:44:23>> but I have to ask you know when somebody
1:44:26tells me something
1:44:27>> and I know you have I'll do I willingly
1:44:30will admit to a lie detector test to
1:44:32tell you that I did not shoot him.
1:44:34>> I did not kill him
1:44:36>> to clarify since I said I did not shoot
1:44:38him. I did not kill him. I did not do
1:44:42anything to endanger his life.
1:44:44>> Okay. Um, but I'm just explaining to you
1:44:47because you're you keep saying that that
1:44:49you're that you didn't do anything.
1:44:51Well, you did do something that helped
1:44:53your mom. So,
1:44:55>> um, but like we had talked about before,
1:44:58you being honest with us goes a long
1:45:00way, you know, with the DA's office. So,
1:45:03>> um, office is also more than likely to
1:45:05try and blind this on me as well
1:45:09>> because I'm the only other person that's
1:45:10not sitting in jail, Savannah, right?
1:45:13cuz mom's sitting in jail and it's and
1:45:16it's on her and what's point to sending
1:45:18someone who's already in prison for
1:45:20three years more prison time.
1:45:23>> Well, I don't know that that's how the
1:45:25justice system
1:45:26>> hope it's not how it works, but
1:45:29>> um
1:45:29>> I don't know how it works. That's why
1:45:31I'm sitting here all
1:45:34>> obviously our role as law enforcement is
1:45:36to gather all the facts and then we
1:45:39present it to the DA's office and it's
1:45:41their job to prosecute the case. So, I
1:45:44mean, I would hope that once we gather
1:45:45all the facts and present it to them
1:45:47that they will make the right decision
1:45:49as to what they're going to charge and
1:45:50who they're going to charge. You know,
1:45:52that's why it's not done yet. There's a
1:45:54there's a ton of reports.
1:45:56>> How much has to be done from my side
1:45:58until I could be completely done with
1:46:00this
1:46:03>> done? I guess you have to be more
1:46:04specific because there's a lot long
1:46:07process.
1:46:08>> How what do I have to do yet? Answer any
1:46:11questions? No, that's until I get it to
1:46:13court so I can go see.
1:46:14>> Well, it's not just what you need to do.
1:46:16It's what we need to do. Finishing
1:46:18reports and the DA's office
1:46:21to do so you can finish all this so that
1:46:23I can actually my girlfriend.
1:46:25>> Do you have any other questions?
1:46:27>> I don't have any other questions. Uh
1:46:30it's it's hard to say. You're asking us
1:46:32to speculate. Every case is different. I
1:46:34don't I don't really know how long it's
1:46:36going to be until you may he might go to
1:46:38court and they might and the judge might
1:46:40decide uh it. Well, they might decide to
1:46:43put a no contact on you and Savannah. I
1:46:46mean, as part of a bond condition for
1:46:48you guys to even get out of jail, but
1:46:50that's that's all beyond anything that
1:46:52we have, you know,
1:46:54>> and that's out of our control.
1:46:57We have no control over that.
1:46:59>> Out of our our scope of control.
1:47:04So I can tell you, you know, there are
1:47:07some cases like this that, you know,
1:47:09like a homicide case, for instance, in
1:47:12general, could take a year to get
1:47:14through court before it's decided could
1:47:16take two years.
1:47:18>> You know, I might be sitting here for
1:47:20two years before I get my first court
1:47:21date.
1:47:22>> Oh, not before you get your first court
1:47:24date. I'm just saying
1:47:26the conclusion of the case. Um, the
1:47:28first court date
1:47:29>> my first court date is when I should get
1:47:31bonded, right? Yeah. I don't know when
1:47:33the first Well,
1:47:35>> I would assume it would be next week.
1:47:37>> I would. Yeah,
1:47:38>> that's what they told me about this
1:47:39week.
1:47:40>> Yeah, but
1:47:42that I think was a pipe dream.
1:47:46>> Yeah. Getting our report because they
1:47:48can't do anything till we get our
1:47:49reports and we need time to do our
1:47:50reports and if we're doing interviews,
1:47:52we're not doing our reports, right?
1:47:53>> Okay.
1:47:54>> So, what do we have left so that you can
1:47:56do your reports?
1:47:57>> I don't know that I have any other
1:47:59questions for you about the case. I
1:48:01don't know if I have any other questions
1:48:03for you right now. If I do, if I need
1:48:05something clarified, is all right if we
1:48:07>> Yeah, you can come get me anytime. Wake
1:48:08me up in the middle of night. I don't
1:48:09care because a couple times guards here
1:48:12have open me up for something they
1:48:13needed and I wish they would.
1:48:15>> Okay. Well, I'm sorry about that. But um
1:48:18but
1:48:18>> to wake me up honestly if you need me.
1:48:21>> And you're okay staying in the cell with
1:48:24Robert?
1:48:25>> I don't think there's anywhere else. I
1:48:27can't go.
1:48:28>> Okay. Well, I can ask
1:48:30>> if you want me to if you want.
1:48:31>> If you can find a safer cell that
1:48:33doesn't put me back in any block.
1:48:35>> Okay,
1:48:36>> that's it.
1:48:38>> Okay, I will ask and see if there's
1:48:40somewhere else we can put you out.
1:48:42>> Otherwise, we can take you upstairs
1:48:43here. And like I said, I would assume
1:48:45it's probably this next week.
1:48:48>> Sure.
1:48:50>> And I have trouble going to the other
1:48:52side so I know going down here.
1:48:57Following the interrogation, Jeffrey
1:49:00Meyers Wick faced criminal charges
1:49:02related to the efforts to conceal
1:49:04Richard Bour's death. On March 8th,
1:49:06[music]
1:49:072024, Jeffrey pleaded guilty to hiding a
1:49:11corpse as a party to a crime. He also
1:49:14entered a guilty plea to a charge
1:49:16involving possession of a short-barreled
1:49:18firearm, although the court withheld a
1:49:21finding of guilt [music] on that charge
1:49:22under a diversion agreement. For his
1:49:25role in concealing Richard's remains,
1:49:28Jeffrey was sentenced to 1 and a half
1:49:30years in prison, followed by 5 years of
1:49:33extended supervision. He received credit
1:49:35for 364 [music] days already spent in
1:49:38custody. His supervision conditions
1:49:41included remaining sober [music] and
1:49:43submitting to random drug testing. The
1:49:46case against his mother, Star Meyers,
1:49:48[music] continued for another year and a
1:49:50half. On September 30th, 2025,
1:49:54she pleaded no contest to seconddegree
1:49:57intentional homicide [music]
1:49:58in connection with her husband's death.
1:50:01Star received a sentence of [music] 22
1:50:04years in prison, followed by 20 years of
1:50:06extended supervision. Her sentence was
1:50:09also ordered to run consecutively to a
1:50:12separate [music] sentence she was
1:50:13already serving. Jeffrey was not
1:50:15convicted of Richard's murder. His
1:50:18conviction concerned his involvement in
1:50:20concealing the body afterward.
1:50:23If you found this video informative,
1:50:25please consider leaving a like and
1:50:27subscribing to the channel as it [music]
1:50:29really helps support our work and allows
1:50:31us to continue covering important cases
1:50:33like this one. Thank you.

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Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to choose a caption track available on the video.

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YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, caption language selection, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.