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Hating Breitbart Director Andrew Marcus — Transcript

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0:02hey there I'm Kennedy for reason TV
0:04filming live from reason's Los Angeles
0:06studio is glor here today we're talking
0:09with Andrew Marcus he's the director of
0:11the new documentary hating Breitbart the
0:13late Andrew Breitbart is known for his
0:15suite of big websites like big
0:17government big Hollywood big journalism
0:19big peace and he's also known for his
0:22role in the controversy that led to the
0:23Congressional defunding of acorn and the
0:26resignation of New York Congressman
0:27Anthony Weiner so thanks so much for for
0:30joining us thanks for having me did you
0:31know Andrew Breitbart well I did over
0:33the course of two and a half three years
0:35of filming him I came to know him very
0:37well and how did the documentary come to
0:38be um I was on the ground covering tea
0:41party protest protests even before that
0:44but it didn't take long covering tea
0:45party protest before my path crossed
0:48with Andrew Breitbart um Andrew
0:50Breitbart uniquely personified the fight
0:54that the Tea Party Movement was going
0:56through at the time when they first
0:58launched they were accused of being
1:00racist um potentially violent um and at
1:04that exact moment Andrew Breitbart was
1:06launching his Acorn tapes and was being
1:08accused of the exact same thing he was
1:10being accused of being racist um and
1:12Andrew Breitbart sort of found a home a
1:15Synergy inside the tea party because of
1:17that um I was very interested in telling
1:21the story of what I was seeing going on
1:23in the Tea Party um but Andrew Breitbart
1:26really personified that and did you
1:28share his frustration at the media
1:31absolutely um yeah I found a real uh
1:34common belief set there with him um I
1:37discovered my own frustration with the
1:39media I went to uh uh Crawford Texas uh
1:44for the Cindy shean protest and I saw
1:47the difference between what I witnessed
1:49on the ground there and what the media
1:50was portraying and that was really sort
1:53of the birth of my outrage at the media
1:56because of that so by the time I came
1:58across Andrew breart um I think there
2:00was just sort of we clicked naturally
2:01because of that and he had an
2:03interesting way of categorizing his own
2:05political beliefs in the documentary he
2:07said that he was a conservative but
2:11sympathetic to the libertarian movement
2:13and not necessarily a social
2:15conservative so doesn't that really make
2:16him a
2:18Libertarian um you know I I would think
2:21in most circles yeah he probably would
2:23be considered libertarian for that um
2:25but he definitely I think he's what you
2:27would call uh I'm going to uh quote Dave
2:31masio of USA Today who says uh who
2:34referred uh described it as being a
2:36creature of the right um and I think
2:38that's what Andrew was he was of the
2:41right and I think that you know um like
2:44most people in this country he was
2:46center right um so I would think on some
2:49things he would definitely he would have
2:50self-identified as libertarian um but uh
2:55but I think he was probably also a
2:57fiscal conservative um and I think on
2:59for policy he was probably more
3:01conservative than libertarian so he was
3:02a mix he was a mix and in 2004 he told
3:06Reon that he was actually apolitical and
3:09that Matt Welch described him as having
3:11no political philosophy whatsoever would
3:14you agree with that statement
3:16um I don't think he was intentionally
3:18political I mean I think he had a huge
3:20effect politically so whether he wanted
3:22to be or not he was political but his
3:25motivation was definitely not political
3:28his motivation you here's a guy who I
3:31call him The Perfect Storm because he
3:32came of age um as a uh as a contributor
3:37to the drugge report he was behind the
3:39scenes when the Monica Lewinsky scandal
3:42happened okay and was that was that the
3:44defining moment for
3:46drudge um oh I don't know I'm not sure
3:49and sure in terms of drudge I don't know
3:51he's kind of a black box you sort of you
3:53don't know how to read what what what he
3:55what his perspective is but it was
3:57definitely for Andrew you know for
3:59Andrew um I think that he looked at the
4:01at the Linsky Scandal as a story about
4:04the chief executive lying under oath
4:07okay and then he watched the mainstream
4:09media craft this narrative that it was
4:12all about the sex and that anybody who
4:14was interested in this story is only
4:15interested in it because of the sex and
4:17their uptight Puritans or perverts or
4:20whatever um and I think he was horrified
4:22by that and so it really was what he
4:26witnessed in the media that drove him
4:29his whole passion was and he used to say
4:32politics is Downstream from culture and
4:34he believed that the politics was almost
4:36irrelevant um if you're losing the
4:38culture fight you're done you're toast
4:40and so while he may have had desires
4:43politically um uh in terms of trying to
4:46affect politics I think he saw the
4:47source of it as as culture so he was a
4:50culture Warrior instead of a political
4:51Warrior and what part did he have in
4:55breaking and making the Lewinsky scandal
4:58such a huge story like Andrew
5:00specifically do you know that I don't
5:02history yeah I don't know the details of
5:03that actually so in in the filming of
5:05the documentary there were only two noo
5:07zones and one of the no-o zones was The
5:10Drudge Report um and his work with the
5:12Drudge Report because Matt drudge is
5:13extremely protective of his brand of
5:15course you should be um and so nobody
5:18anybody like people there are people out
5:19there that work on the Drudge Report
5:20that you would never know because
5:21they're just they never ever talk about
5:23it so that was one thing we was a noo
5:25Zone we couldn't talk about the Dr that
5:27was actually one of the questions I had
5:28about the documentary I'm really
5:30interested in that part of his past I
5:32want to know you know what part of his
5:35history with Matt drudge made the Andrew
5:37Breitbart that we all knew and did they
5:40have a close relationship were they
5:42friendly what was the status of their
5:43relationship when he died um oh I think
5:45it was friendly Matt drudge came to
5:47Andrew's funeral I mean I think that's
5:48the biggest Testament to how Matt drudge
5:50felt about Andrew Breitbart um so I I do
5:52believe that they were close on that
5:53level did you try and interview drudge
5:55for the documentary um no because again
5:56it was it was you know again like I said
5:58there were two no- goes
6:00the other one was Andrew's wife and
6:01children which prevented us from making
6:03this film you know like a typical
6:05biography um it had to be more about his
6:08work and his mission and and the fight
6:10that he was fighting because of that um
6:12so no we didn't pursue it because we
6:14didn't want to alienate Andrew you know
6:16do anything to you know disturb whatever
6:17Andrew was doing because that would be
6:19the documentary dramatically affecting
6:21our subjects so did he off the Record
6:23talk about his relationship with drudge
6:24or Ariana Huffington um yeah he talked
6:27about Ariana Huffington certainly um and
6:29he was was very proud that he was a part
6:31of launching that site because again he
6:33didn't consider himself an ideologue and
6:34he always used to say more voices not
6:36less um and so I think he felt like his
6:39work with Ariana was uh speaking to that
6:43part of himself now I think he was very
6:46frustrated with with what happened at at
6:48Huffington Post because he ended up
6:50quickly leaving because he I think he
6:52felt there they while hington post
6:55represented bringing more voices to the
6:57macro uh dialogue in the micro at
7:00hington post I don't think he felt like
7:02there was any room for any diversity of
7:04thought there so did Ariana attend his
7:06funeral no well but then it would have
7:08been all about her I think she was just
7:10being nice oh she's heartless let's not
7:12kid
7:14ourselves so let's talk about Acorn
7:17because uh this might have been the
7:18first moment where everyone stopped and
7:20went who is Andrew Breitbart because
7:24breitbart.com sounds like reuters.com it
7:27sounds like something that might have
7:28been around for a long time people who
7:30didn't know of Andrew Breitbart as the
7:32personality might not know that and this
7:34was really the first time that people
7:35stopped and said wait a second who is
7:37this guy what is going on here you know
7:39I think Andrew was always planning on
7:42coming out publicly and again with the
7:44Drudge Report he could have tremendous
7:46influence but none of it publicly you
7:49know people began to see the Breitbart
7:51brand because he was able to link from
7:53the drug report to breitbart.com but
7:56you're right nobody nobody knew who he
7:58was nobody he wasn't on anybody's radar
8:00until the acorn story happened um and I
8:04think that you know and again you know
8:06for most people Andrew Breitbart was an
8:08overnight phenomenon you know but for
8:10Andrew Breitbart that was a pretty
8:11consistent line um he again he was
8:15informed by his outrage at what he saw
8:19as a fundamental unfairness in the media
8:22um and so his whole uh uh uh take on the
8:27acorn story his whole his whole Drive
8:29for it was even sort of less about what
8:32was happening at Acorn and more about
8:34the media and that's why he staggered
8:37the video releases the way that he did
8:39because his goal I think was not
8:42necessarily to take down Acorn it was to
8:44expose the mainstream media in the
8:46process and acorn was defunded in the
8:49process and and it was it was really
8:51brilliant and it worked well for him in
8:54this story because he was able to put
8:56out a video and berth Lewis and you know
9:00lawmaker allies came out and said well
9:03it it didn't happen here they were
9:04kicked out there and then all of a
9:06sudden more and more videos came out
9:09it's the first time that he could think
9:10of in memory where a where such an
9:13important policy decision was made to
9:15defund this organization without a
9:18column inch being written in the New
9:20York Times or the Washington Post the
9:22first time they reported on the story
9:24was it's aftermath you know so they had
9:26to their readers had to been had to been
9:28wondering well wait wait how did how did
9:29all this happen and while they're
9:31reporting on it they're attacking James
9:33O'Keefe for not being a big jnf
9:36journalist absolutely well and this is
9:38what they did and this was what we
9:40witnessed um uh and it's part of what
9:43led us to uh to go along the theme of
9:45hating The Hating Breitbart and it's
9:47really not just about hating Breitbart
9:48it's about hating um uh it's a machine
9:51of hatred that's in place frankly that
9:53that is aimed at anyone who was not
9:54sufficiently Progressive enough um and
9:57what they do is they they try to attach
9:59a meme to you um a label some kind of
10:03some kind of idea that gets hooked to
10:04you so that no matter what you do going
10:06forward they can recall that so in the
10:08case of
10:10acorn they latched on to this notion
10:13that James o'keef lied about dressing as
10:16a pimp going into these offices because
10:18at the beginning of the acorn videos he
10:20does a sort of a Borat kind of MTV
10:24opening you know um uh where he's
10:26dressed in a in a flamboyant outfit now
10:29when you watch the videos you can see in
10:30the first 16 seconds of the first video
10:32when he's walking into the office and
10:34his hand goes into frame and you see
10:35he's not wearing that he's dressed as as
10:37he presented himself as a uh as somebody
10:40who wanted to run for Congress and was
10:43looking to launder the money from
10:45underage prostitutes for his
10:47Congressional Campaign um my guess is
10:51that he he told them he was going to run
10:52as a republican they wouldn't have
10:53helped him launder the money but because
10:55he was GNA run as a true Progressive
10:58they were willing to help him
10:59um you know so what they triy to do is
11:01attach this meme to him that he's a liar
11:03that he's selectively edited and they
11:05tried to attach that to Andrew Breitbart
11:07as well that he's he's dishonest he
11:09selectively edits and and the reason
11:11that they try to what news Outlet
11:12doesn't selectively edit I mean that
11:14that is the most asinine right oh well
11:17that was part of what made him so
11:18Furious was the very people that were
11:20accusing him of this make edits all the
11:21time me that's they do I mean you know
11:24look at any news program on NBC or well
11:27not only that they want even further
11:29they released all of the audio
11:32transcripts of all of the and all of the
11:34audio recordings themselves of the raw
11:36material now nobody does that um and
11:39even in doing that they were accused of
11:41selectively editing and misrepresenting
11:43it that's what you know look what
11:45happened they they launched the acorn
11:47tapes Acorn gets defunded and
11:50investigations happen and the
11:51investigations are not into Acorn they
11:53were into James Hannah and Andrew
11:55Breitbart now was he accused of being
11:57racist in the a
12:00Scandal the way he was with Shirley
12:02sherro yes not as much with Shirley
12:05sherad was off the charts in terms of
12:06the racism charge but yes and that was
12:08the beginning of the charge of racism
12:09for him and the narrative went like this
12:12Acorn helps black people so if you're
12:14against Acorn you're against black
12:16people and your motive is probably that
12:18you're against black people and that was
12:20the that was the racism charge that that
12:22launched it and they they did a smear
12:23job on James O'Keefe um he had attended
12:26a a conference where it was a uh some uh
12:31uh I think it was a white supremacist
12:32debating a black guy and and because of
12:34that they determined it was a white
12:36supremacist conference and that James
12:37O'Keefe was the organizer and they
12:39smeared him with it for simply attending
12:41you know these are the people who who
12:43were uh for years have have held up the
12:45Spectre of McCarthyism and guilt by
12:47association and they were willing to
12:48completely associate James O'Keefe with
12:51white supremacism simply because he was
12:53in the same room with somebody now the
12:54slow roll out with Shirley sherro didn't
12:56work as well for Andrew Breitbart yes
12:59because that really was a piece of the
13:01speech that was abstracted obviously
13:03he's not going to release a 45-minute
13:05speech but that did not bowed well for
13:07him that blew up in his face was that
13:09his greatest misstep um well that
13:11narrative certainly didn't work the way
13:13he had intended that's for sure um but
13:16I'm not even so sure that it was his
13:18misstep look there's a correction on
13:21their website and anybody can go see
13:22their correction and their correction
13:24was specific to you know when the story
13:27she was telling you know when that was
13:29refer the period of time that was
13:30referencing okay so now that was a
13:33legitimate error that they made and I
13:36think it's pretty common it's a common
13:37error in journalism you know you don't
13:39want to have that but that's what
13:40Corrections are for and that's you know
13:42why people issue them um what they
13:44jumped on though the way that they
13:46attacked him he was for something that
13:49he did not do what they what they
13:51attacked him for was um misrepresenting
13:56her in terms of the the fact that she
13:57ended up helping the white farmer
13:59and that was what you you know if you if
14:01you look back at the news Clips you look
14:02back at all their coverage they
14:04immediately got the farmer on the on the
14:06television and had her with in the side
14:08by side with the farmer and farmer
14:10saying oh yes she absolutely helped us
14:11and then the narrative became Andrew
14:13Breitbart lied about all of this but if
14:14you read Andrew breitbart's piece and if
14:16you watch the video he put up even in
14:19the video he put up Shirley sherad says
14:22I eventually helped the white farmer and
14:24Andrew Breitbart in his piece writes her
14:27Humanity uh her to help the white farmer
14:31so he never covered up the fact that she
14:33had eventually helped the guy and that
14:36was the narrative that got perpetrated
14:38was that he had selectively edited to
14:40make it look like she was just racist
14:42and that and that uh that she you know
14:44didn't help this guy and that part of it
14:46was all uh totally manufactured and he
14:50unfortunately for him he had to watch
14:51The Narrative just slip away from him
14:53because of that error that they made in
14:56terms of the timing of it and and that's
14:57what happens when you're fighting
14:58against the machine if you make one
15:00mistake one misstep and they will pounce
15:02on it and try and smother the rest of
15:03the story regardless of what it is any
15:05ad hoc apology or argument so John Lewis
15:09civil rights icon and this is this is
15:11something that race lier and he said
15:14that you know on his way into the
15:15capital someone hurled the nword at him
15:18at least 15 times by 15 different people
15:21to him and Andre Carson right and uh you
15:25could not find you you had you show five
15:27different clips from five different
15:29angles of the same Moment In Time by
15:32members of what Breitbart called the
15:36army of Citizen
15:37journalists did John Lewis and Andre
15:40Carson ever come out and retract their
15:42claims that that word was thrown at them
15:45oh no not not only that not only have
15:46they not retracted it uh I think as
15:48recently as about six months ago Andre
15:50Carson repeated it um they have not
15:52walked away from it at all uh and it's
15:55absolutely it's a total race
15:57liel um anybody that watches any of the
15:59footage that came out of there can see
16:01it absolutely never you can't find one
16:04example of it being used they said it
16:06was chanted um it's a horrifying episode
16:10uh if you're a fan of the civil rights
16:12movement and I'm a fan of civil rights I
16:14I mean I think what they did in in the
16:1650s and 60s was incredibly courageous
16:18and brave and was a a good thing for our
16:19country and they've crapped all over
16:21that Legacy with this lie um and it it
16:24was I think a very important point in
16:26the documentary in terms of Andrew
16:27Breitbart and Andrew breitbart's thesis
16:29because you know uh basically what
16:31Andrew Breitbart represents is uh really
16:34one of the first uh uh manifestations of
16:37being able to harness C citizen
16:41journalists um he was very quick to
16:43recognize that the ubiquity of media the
16:46ubiquity of people's cameras um meant
16:48that the mainstream media who used to be
16:50the only people on the scene with a
16:51camera that allowed them to own the
16:53narrative that those days were over um
16:56and he knew this from experience because
16:57he'd been to enough things where a
16:59narrative was created about whatever
17:01event that he was at but there was video
17:03footage that showed that that was
17:05absolutely not what happened it was
17:06usually from people who just happened to
17:08be in attendance so he was he was smart
17:10enough to know in today's day of of
17:12ubiquitous media that that if something
17:15happened it was extremely likely that it
17:17would have been documented and we see
17:20that now I mean it helped law
17:21enforcement solve the Boston Marathon
17:24bombing it we're in a postmodernist age
17:27where everyone can cast their own net
17:30and bring in their side of the story
17:33yeah it's it's it's a very activist
17:34media and I don't mean activist in terms
17:36of activist for this cause or that cause
17:38it's uh people average regular people
17:41who are activated because what they're
17:43seeing is uh whatever Niche topic it is
17:47that interests them they're seeing that
17:49there's an injustice being done in the
17:51coverage of whatever it is that's
17:52interesting them I was activated because
17:55I witnessed that in Crawford Texas they
17:57were calling these Cindy she protesters
18:00uh uh uh Grassroots and that they were
18:02living in ditches when in fact they had
18:03a football fields siiz catering tent
18:06that was serving three hot meals a day
18:07Cindy shean was in an airconditioned
18:09trailer that's not even the worst of it
18:11they had their own satellite truck
18:13parked right next to the tent where they
18:15were producing their own content and
18:16uploading it that activated me and I'm
18:19I'm just one drop in the bucket people
18:21are all over the country in their own
18:24unique way witness that there's a
18:26disconnect between the reality on the
18:27ground and what gets ped and because
18:29they're empowered with their camera
18:31their cell phone whatever they can cover
18:33it themselves and they can circumvent
18:35the narrative and is is that one of the
18:37impacts is that part of the Legacy
18:39because if breitbart's existence widen
18:41the chasm between New Media and old
18:45journalism what is the impact today what
18:48sites do you see what specific examples
18:51where do you see Andrew breitbart's
18:54influence in New Media um well I still
18:56see it at the Breitbart sites they're
18:58still fighting the fight um and they
19:00carry on in his in his honor but you see
19:02it everywhere look at Michelle malin's
19:04Twitchy okay that's a perfect example
19:07where she you know tw Twitter was uh for
19:11forever was the since this beginning was
19:13the domain of the left um and uh that's
19:17begun to change over time and she really
19:18harnessed that change by creating a
19:21website that Aggregates the the the
19:23tweets and what it creates is a
19:25community of activated people who then
19:28are able to respond within the ecosystem
19:31of Twitter um and she has
19:33single-handedly basically uh driven the
19:36conservative movement directly into the
19:37liberal movement so like that kind of
19:39it's It's bold she stands up and she and
19:42she and she takes the fight uh people
19:44like Jeremy seagull Rebel pundit uh out
19:46of Chicago who with his video camera
19:49dressed up like an anarchist and
19:50embedded with the Occupy Movement and
19:52was the only person the only journalist
19:55who ran with them and documented their
19:58their vandalism when the mainstream
20:00media was portraying them as you
20:03know wholesome peaceful protesters he
20:06was the you know out there documenting
20:08that that's not the case and you know
20:10people like Jeremy seagull were
20:11absolutely inspired by the likes of
20:13Andrew Breitbart so it's it's definitely
20:16out there it's not pretty you know uh uh
20:19individuals will get it wrong they're
20:21not big Jade journalists you know so
20:23they'll make mistakes it's you know so
20:25that's the uh uh but it's I think it's
20:28self in it's a big community and again
20:30you brought up the Boston bombes perfect
20:32example people were upset that that it
20:35became sort of like a digital Lynch Mob
20:37you know are these people guilty are
20:39these people guilty but I actually found
20:41that to be like the perfect example of
20:43crowdsourcing because people were wrong
20:45about the the the the questions they
20:47were raising and it was almost
20:48immediately debunked um uh I think
20:51that's the that is the beauty of that of
20:53that movement okay and it can be said
20:56that you know people on the right have
20:58Fox News and drud report people on the
21:00left have MS and daily Coes or New York
21:04Times whatever is that also part of
21:07breit part's influence is that a good
21:08thing and is that an honest
21:10characterization of how people consume
21:12media um H I'm not sure I I don't know
21:17uh uh I think that
21:20uh you know uh I think that Andrew
21:26uh had an influence in terms of Bolding
21:29people to strike out on their own and so
21:31I think you see more and more media
21:34that's developed that does that um in
21:37terms of on The Meta level in terms of
21:40something as big as you know affecting
21:41on the level of the New York Times um I
21:45don't know I feel like it's sort of
21:46static I mean I feel like we're sort of
21:47we where we were um before Breitbart uh
21:51you know you have the rush Limba you've
21:53got the Fox News you know uh
21:56conservatives have won on cable they've
21:59won on radio and they've lost at the
22:01ballot Bo I have two final questions one
22:04you know conspiracy theories abound that
22:07Andrew Breitbart did not succumb to
22:08natural causes do you ever give into
22:11those feelings and entertain those
22:12thoughts in the middle of the night when
22:14they creep
22:17up um they usually creep up in the
22:20shower uh they look I'm of the position
22:23I can't I can't say with absolute
22:26determination what happened but I can
22:28tell you based on what I witnessed of
22:30Andrew Breitbart and of what I witnessed
22:33of Andrew Breitbart um as shocking as it
22:36is that he died at 43 of a heart attack
22:39I can believe it um you know the guy not
22:42only did he burn the candle at both ends
22:43he found a new parts of the candle you
22:45didn't know you could burn and um he had
22:48had a heart condition a year prior so it
22:50was a condition that was that was known
22:52about um you know but I understand why
22:55people uh uh wonder about it if it's
22:58hard to accept that somebody at 43 years
23:00old so active and so filled with life
23:03can suddenly be gone um that and the
23:06fact that he had made incredibly
23:09powerful enemies um you know I think
23:11that makes that makes people wonder who
23:12danced on his grave the moment his death
23:14was announced and my final question why
23:16didn't you include his death in the
23:20documentary Andrew breart gave us
23:22incredible latitude in the production of
23:24this film okay um he we what we said to
23:27him was you got to if you let us in you
23:29got to give us you know car blanch
23:31access and you can't have control over
23:33what we're going to do because that
23:34would be then we'd be making your movie
23:37instead of making a film about what
23:38we're making this film about he was
23:40amazing about that so we went through
23:43two and a half three years of production
23:45without him seeing any of it and we then
23:48gave him a screening of the of a rough
23:50cut approximately two months before he
23:52passed away and the guy absolutely fell
23:54in love with the movie he he saw 12
23:58different ways of using it as a weapon
24:00you know and that wasn't our intent but
24:01you know that was Andrew Breitbart and
24:04after he passed there was a lot of
24:05pressure to make it more of a
24:07retrospective to deal with the death I
24:09just felt committed to tell the story
24:12that he saw before dying and make it
24:15about what his fight was and not make it
24:18about his death now you know maybe
24:20there'll be a sequel called loving Bri
24:22Bart where we where we focus on that you
24:24know um and get into his tactic and and
24:27the effect of his passing and all of
24:29that but it just didn't seem appropriate
24:30for this one this was about the fight
24:32that he was fighting and and the
24:33movement he was fighting for um and uh
24:36and we present the death kind of how we
24:39experienced it very suddenly and very
24:41shockingly yeah at the very end all
24:43right well Andrew Breitbart lives on in
24:46your documentary thank you so much
24:47Andrew Marcus all right well make sure
24:49you check in with reason.com for future
24:52events and you can also check out hating
24:54bit Bart for yourself for reason TV I'm
24:56Kennedy
24:58n
25:04[Music]

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