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Harvard Professor: You MUST Do this in the Morning! | Arthur Brooks — Transcript

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0:00Imagine a scale between zero and 10.
0:01Zero is the unhappiest person you know.
0:0310 is the happiest person you've ever
0:04met. What's your number?
0:05>> Today we are joined by social scientist
0:08and professor Arthur Brooks, previously
0:10at Harvard Business School.
0:11>> The depression and anxiety epidemic that
0:13we see all around the world, that's not
0:15because of work burnout. [music] You
0:16think that when you get into the corner
0:18office, you're going to be happier.
0:19You're not. I have the data.
0:21>> He has [music] researched happiness for
0:23the past 30 years and has coached
0:25hundreds of CEOs, billionaires, people
0:27that have achieved incredible [music]
0:29success.
0:29>> People think, "Well, if I get a boat,
0:31will I be happier?" No, you won't. "If I
0:33get the world's most expensive car, will
0:34I be happier?" No. [music]
0:35"A fourth house?" These things won't do
0:37it. But there are ways that you can
0:39spend money on and that you actually
0:40should that will bring greater
0:41happiness. [music] There's five ways you
0:43can spend your money.
0:43>> What are some of the qualities of the
0:45happiest people [music] that you've met?
0:47>> There are four behaviors that I see of
0:49the happiest possible people. Here are
0:50the rules that we need to teach our
0:52kids.
0:52>> So, I want to [music] go back to the
0:53morning. So, set the scene for me.
0:55>> I get up from 7:30 to 11:30.
0:59>> I just want to start off with the course
1:02that you taught at Harvard.
1:04>> Right.
1:04>> And I heard that it was one of the most
1:06popular courses ever at the school,
1:09almost to the point that there was uh a
1:11Zoom link that was shared illicitly. Is
1:13that true?
1:14>> Yeah, no, there for the longest time
1:15this is like a class and elective that
1:17the students were taking in the second
1:18year. And there's a lot of competition
1:20to get into some of these electives and
1:22my class usually had 180 students
1:24enrolled and 400 on the waiting list.
1:26>> Wow.
1:27>> So, they were looking for ways to kind
1:28of get the insight from the class and
1:30they say, "Are there other ways that I
1:31can get it?" And it turned out that a
1:32lot of them were using the COVID link
1:34and passing it around. And so, that was
1:36the illegal Zoom link that they thought
1:37I was not aware of. They want to be
1:39happier and that's what people want.
1:40That's what people want in their lives.
1:41They want to be happier people, they
1:43want to have happier children, they want
1:44to bring more happiness to others and it
1:45turns out that just studying business
1:48doesn't do that. I mean, business is
1:49great. I'm a business school professor.
1:51I've been in I've been a CEO,
1:52[clears throat]
1:53you know, I've done a lot of things with
1:54my career. But one of the things that I
1:55know is that the the rewards of the
1:57world are not the secret to happiness
1:59and they're figuring that out over the
2:01course of their MBA. Well, I've been
2:02doing work on the science of happiness
2:04ever since I got my PhD almost 30 years
2:06ago and I have seen big changes in young
2:08people in their orientation toward
2:10happiness. So my students for sure, my
2:12adult kids for sure, but but people all
2:14over the world. Largely the change
2:16started change started happening in 2008
2:19there thereabouts.
2:20>> Is it the financial crisis?
2:22>> Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It
2:23told turns out it's a crisis
2:25>> I see.
2:26>> that actually changed the way that we
2:27that we live. It was kind of a
2:29hurricane a downward force in human
2:32happiness when when devices started to
2:34take over people's lives, people started
2:36to get more depressed and more anxious
2:38and lonelier and the reason is because
2:39they were putting a screen between
2:40themselves and other people. The secret
2:42to happiness is love and relationships.
2:44That's where it comes from and when
2:46you're more isolated what you're getting
2:49on your phone is a simulation of
2:50relationships. It's not real
2:51relationships and your brain knows the
2:53difference. And so a lot of the work
2:54that I do is how we've broken our brains
2:57with technology and has made us a lot
2:58less happy.
2:59>> I want to ask a fundamental question.
3:01>> Sure.
3:01>> How do you define happiness?
3:03>> Yeah, you know, that's the first thing
3:04that I did when I came into this field.
3:06That there've been [clears throat] a lot
3:07of people writing about happiness over
3:08the years and and the biggest problem is
3:10they don't have a good definition of
3:11happiness. Everybody has kind of their
3:13own sense of it.
3:14>> be a hundred different things.
3:15>> It could be and and when I ask my
3:16students on the first day of class, what
3:17do you think you're studying? And they
3:19all say the same thing. They say, "Well,
3:20Professor, I can't put it into words,
3:22but I know it when I feel it." And what
3:24they're saying is that happiness is a
3:25feeling, but that's wrong. Happiness and
3:28the feeling of happiness are not the
3:29same thing. Feelings of happiness are
3:31evidence of actual happiness. Like the
3:34smell of dinner is evidence of dinner.
3:36It's not the same thing.
3:37>> Right.
3:37>> And if you're looking for feelings,
3:38you're just looking for evidence of
3:39something, you'll never actually get it.
3:41You need something that's more
3:42fundamentally rigorous, something that
3:44has content.
3:45>> Right.
3:45>> And so I went back to the best
3:47scientific definitions and I also
3:48noticed what were the attributes of the
3:51lives of the happiest people? And what
3:53we found in this research is that the
3:55best definition of happiness is kind of
3:57like the definition of food with
3:58macronutrients, which is a combination
4:00of carb carbohydrates, protein, and fat.
4:03>> Right.
4:03>> Right, the same thing with happiness.
4:04Happiness is a combination of enjoyment,
4:07satisfaction, and meaning.
4:09>> Mhm.
4:09>> So, you need to enjoy your life to be a
4:11happy person from day to day. You have
4:13to [clears throat] take satisfaction
4:14with your accomplishments, meaning you
4:15get joy after a struggle.
4:18>> Right.
4:18>> And you have to find the why of your
4:20existence, the meaning of your life. And
4:21those are the three big objectives, as
4:23it turns out. So, when I'm teaching
4:25people how to be happier, I'm working on
4:26those three things. I test them to see
4:28where they're weak, and I give them
4:29techniques to get those things stronger.
4:31>> I see. What are some of the qualities of
4:34the happiest people that you've met?
4:35>> Huh.
4:36The happiest people that I meet, um and
4:38and there are so many, about half of it
4:40is genetic.
4:41>> Oh, really?
4:42>> So, I don't want that to be true,
4:44because I want everything to be under
4:46our control. You know, we're
4:47entrepreneurial people, and this is the
4:48entrepreneurial endeavor, exactly.
4:50Right, but but the truth is about half
4:51of your happiness, half of the the
4:54difference in happiness that we see
4:56between individuals is explained by
4:58their genetic similarity.
4:59>> of the brain.
5:00>> Yeah, exactly. And so, we know this from
5:02identical twins that are separated at
5:04birth and adopted into separate
5:05families, and they're reunited as
5:07adults. You can find that most of the
5:08personalities is actually genetically
5:10predetermined, including their
5:11happiness, half of their happiness.
5:14I wish it weren't true. But but by the
5:15way, that's okay, because if you know
5:17anything about yourself genetically, you
5:19can manage your circumstances to manage
5:20your genetics.
5:21>> Okay.
5:21>> I mean, people who have alcoholic
5:23parents, they tend to be more alcoholic.
5:25But that means they should know that, so
5:27they can not drink.
5:28>> Mhm.
5:28>> Cuz you can actually change the outcome
5:30by doing by by behavior. Another quarter
5:32of your happiness is circumstantial. So,
5:35nice circumstances
5:36lead to greater happiness, and not nice
5:39circumstances lead to the opposite. But
5:41those are transient. It turns out that
5:43circumstances don't last very long. So,
5:45if bad things are happening, it won't
5:46last. If good things are happening, they
5:49won't last.
5:49>> Right. But, that's 25% at any one time.
5:51And then, 25% are habits. That last 25%
5:55are what matter the most because you
5:56have direct management over 25% of your
5:58happiness, also giving you better
6:00circumstances and allowing you to manage
6:02your genetics. All you need to think
6:03about are the behaviors. There are four
6:05behaviors that I see of the happiest
6:07possible people. These are people who
6:09practice their faith or life philosophy
6:11seriously. These are people who take
6:13care of their family relation
6:15relationships. They're paying attention
6:16to their families, not neglecting their
6:17families, and not having bitterness
6:19inside their families. These are people
6:21who have real friends, not deal friends.
6:23These are people who are doing the work,
6:24and these are people who are dedicating
6:26their work to just two things, earning
6:28their success, which is say creating
6:30real value, and serving other people.
6:33That's what they have. And I don't care
6:34if they're plumbers or politicians or
6:36professors, CEOs or journalists or
6:40anything in between, you need to believe
6:42that you're doing something that creates
6:43value, and you're being recognized for
6:45it, and that you're serving other
6:46people. And those are the big four,
6:48faith, family, friends, and work. Those
6:50are the behaviors that will give you
6:51better circumstances and allow you to
6:53manage your genetics, and give you the
6:55most happiness that you can possibly
6:56get.
6:56>> Okay, so it seems like
6:58finding the meaning and sharing that
7:00with other people.
7:01>> For sure. I mean, that's really what it
7:02comes down to. And you know, one of the
7:03reasons that I teach leadership and
7:05happiness at the Harvard Business School
7:07because I want to create happiness
7:08teachers like me. I want people to see
7:11their leadership careers. And And by the
7:12way, there's a secret to that, too,
7:14which is when leaders actually become
7:16happiness teachers, the leaders get
7:17happier.
7:18>> Right.
7:19How do you become happier ever since you
7:20started teaching?
7:21>> So much happier. I'm 60% happier than I
7:23was when I started teaching happiness,
7:24as a matter of fact. And I measure it
7:25every year. I have good measurement
7:27techniques for that. And it turns out
7:28that it absolutely works.
7:29>> How do you measure it?
7:31>> Well, you measure it by actually by by
7:32by asking to For example, here's a
7:35here's a a classic question.
7:37Imagine a scale between zero and 10.
7:39Zero is the unhappiest person you know.
7:41Think about that person, okay? 10 is the
7:42happiest person you've ever met. Think
7:44of that person.
7:45>> What's your number? And what's your
7:46number, but not right now at this point
7:49in your life, more or less. Not on your
7:51best day, not on your worst day, but
7:52really on on the average day. And when
7:55you think about it, you're going to get
7:56a number in your head, and that number's
7:57very stable. It moves around a little
7:59bit, but not that much, unless you
8:01change your circumstances a lot and
8:03systematically so. And that's what's
8:05happened to me. You know, I've moved up
8:07by about 60% or since I've been teaching
8:09happiness and dedicating myself to
8:11bringing this to people all around the
8:12world. This might This is my secret
8:14happiness.
8:16>> What kinds of people have you met, and
8:18are there any commonalities among them?
8:20>> Yeah, so I I specialize in strivers. And
8:23strivers are people who just never stop.
8:25They never stop working, and they're
8:26they're some of the most successful
8:27people in the world because they
8:29they work so hard at it. And they have
8:31particular personality attributes. They
8:33have a tendency to think that the harder
8:35I run, the better off it's the better
8:37it's actually going to go. They have
8:38often have a hard time enjoying their
8:40lives. They have a hard time taking
8:42satisfaction in their accomplishments
8:43cuz they're never quite there, as it
8:45happens. And a lot of the people that I
8:47work with, the biggest pathology I would
8:49say is that they tend to
8:50only really [snorts] get satisfaction
8:52from succeeding in business, succeeding
8:55in their industry. That makes them quite
8:57workaholic. And workaholism is really is
9:00really damaging, especially to your
9:02relationships. So, a lot of the people
9:03that I see are the most successful
9:05people in the world that are struggling
9:06with their marriages. They're struggling
9:08having a relationship with their
9:08children, and I have to coach them on
9:10how to do less in their work so they can
9:13do more in their lives. That's one of
9:15the things that I find. Now, by the way,
9:17I'm very sympathetic to that. I'm a
9:18workaholic, too.
9:19I like to work. I've been working 60-80
9:22hours a week my entire career, no matter
9:24what I've been doing. And and for me, I
9:26have to take my own advice, and people
9:28will have to sometimes they have to give
9:30me counsel to take my own advice and
9:32read my own books.
9:33>> Relationships are really, just as you
9:35said, they're so integral to us feeling
9:37happy in our lives.
9:38>> Right.
9:39>> What are some kinds of people that
9:41you should keep very close to you and
9:44one should
9:45probably keep at a distance in order to
9:47maintain happiness.
9:48>> course, yeah. And and we have we we do
9:50need to have good prudential judgment
9:51when it comes to the people in our lives
9:53for sure. Now, the the the fundamental
9:55relationships that we need to keep close
9:56to us are our family members. For some
9:58people that's easy. Some people watching
9:59us, that's an easy thing to do. But for
10:00a lot of successful people, it actually
10:02isn't. You know, I I know a lot of
10:03people who have cold marriages, as a
10:05matter of fact. And the reason is
10:06because the the striver in the marriage
10:09is gone all the time and the and the
10:11spouse of the striver is lonely.
10:13>> Yeah.
10:13>> And they become very lonely as that
10:15works. So, they don't know their
10:16children very well. So, one of the
10:17things that I recommend is like it
10:19remember that when when you're when
10:21you're [clears throat] old and dying,
10:23your colleagues aren't going to be
10:25there. You know, the people who work
10:26with you are not going to be standing
10:28around your bed. And at your funeral,
10:29nobody's going to talk about how many
10:30frequent flyer miles you have. That's
10:33not what's going to be happening. Either
10:35your family is going to be gathered
10:37around you talking about what a great
10:38husband, wife, child, parent, brother,
10:42sister that you were or not.
10:44>> the eulogy virtues.
10:45>> Exactly right. As opposed to the resume
10:46virtues. The second is actually what is
10:49to get real friends. And and you know,
10:51in my work, I talk an awful lot about
10:53how strivers, they struggle with
10:54friendship. I mean, all the CEOs
10:56watching us today, they have people
10:57around them constantly. You never have a
10:59moment's peace, as a matter of fact.
11:03And you'll say these are my friends. But
11:05are they real friends or deal friends?
11:07And real and deal are not the same
11:09thing. You know, and and we all kind of
11:11know what the difference is. Deal
11:12friends are useful people to us and
11:14that's good. There's nothing wrong with
11:15that. We all work with all kinds of
11:16people that we like. I have lots of
11:17people I work with that I really like a
11:19lot. But real friends are useless to
11:21you. They don't profit your business.
11:23You don't need them in some sort of
11:25worldly way.
11:26You just love [clears throat] these
11:27people. And and you need to have a lot
11:29of real friends, which takes work and it
11:31takes it takes time away from your
11:33ordinary work, as a matter of fact. So,
11:35those those are the two of the the
11:37earthly relationships I talk about. One
11:39other that I talk about an awful lot is
11:41having a relationship with some with the
11:43metaphysical. And and one of the things
11:45that I find is that strivers often wish
11:47they had more religious activity in
11:49their lives, but they don't do it
11:51because they don't have time to do it.
11:52And so, I have to coach people
11:54>> when you talk about metaphysical, you
11:55mean faith?
11:55>> I I mean faith. I mean faith or
11:57spirituality or or maybe even just a
11:59deep philosophical life is what it can
12:01come down to. I know a lot of, you know,
12:03high hard-charging people that learn to
12:05study the Stoics and get a tremendous
12:07amount of meaning from that.
12:09>> Yes. I love
12:10>> I do, [clears throat] too. Yeah, yeah,
12:11me, too. But but but, you know,
12:12personally, as a Catholic, it's a really
12:14important thing for me to have a
12:16traditional religious faith. And a lot
12:18of very successful people, they do have
12:20kind of a religious faith, but they
12:22don't practice it, and they wish they
12:23did. And I have to recommend to them
12:25they build a relationship, quite
12:27frankly, with God, and they will find a
12:28lot of satisfaction and a lot of meaning
12:30in that.
12:31>> Yeah. When you advise those very
12:34successful people, find these
12:35relationships, invest in them, and they
12:37say,
12:39"I don't have time. I'm running a
12:40company. These people depend on me. You
12:42know, this is how we pay the bills."
12:44>> Right. What do you say?
12:45>> I say I have the data on this, and the
12:48more that you actually spend time in the
12:49relationships, the more efficient and
12:51productive you will become.
12:53And you know, the the people who say I
12:55don't have time for actually for
12:56friendship or for my family, they're
12:57spending the 14th hour at the office as
13:00opposed to the first hour with their
13:01kids. And I've got the data. I'm an I'm
13:03an empirical I'm an I'm a quantitative
13:05economist. I know what's happening in
13:07that 14th hour. You know what it is?
13:09Nothing.
13:09>> [laughter]
13:10>> There's no productivity going on in that
13:1114th hour. You're tired. But the point
13:14is you don't have a relationship with
13:15those people, and so it's easier to be
13:17at the office than the first hour with
13:18your demanding children, or with friends
13:21you don't even know what to talk about.
13:23And so, the point is you need to
13:24apportion your time and set up your time
13:26and your schedule in the same efficient
13:29and and and and
13:31the same wise way that you would your
13:33own business. You know, you wouldn't
13:34actually assign 14 hours of work to one
13:36of your employees, I hope. And yet
13:38you're you're you're you're most I know,
13:40but you're you're your most important
13:41employee and you're assigning 14 hours
13:43of work to yourself and that's that's a
13:44mistake.
13:45>> When you tell your the people that you
13:48coach about um
13:51relationships, not just personal, but do
13:54they ever talk about the work
13:56relationships because it's such a big
13:57part of success and about
13:59[clears throat]
14:00making your mark on the world?
14:02>> For sure, they talk about that all the
14:03time. And one of the things that they
14:04don't know is uh what are the most
14:06common emotions that that that leaders
14:09face that nobody tells them. There's one
14:11mistake that you're making, folks, and
14:13it's this. You think that when you get
14:15into the corner office, you're going to
14:17be happier.
14:18You're not.
14:19I have the data. I wish it were true.
14:21I've been a CEO. I was a CEO for 11
14:23years.
14:24>> You weren't happier?
14:24>> I was not happier. And I was not
14:26happier.
14:26>> Why is that?
14:27>> And well, and the reason is because the
14:28predominant emotions for CEOs are are
14:31loneliness and anger.
14:32Loneliness and anger. Loneliness, why?
14:35Because all your old friends, they're
14:36hanging out with each other. They don't
14:37want to hang out with you. They don't
14:39want to hang out with you. The worst
14:41time in the average worker's day is time
14:43spent with the boss. And the reason is
14:45not because the boss is bad, the boss
14:47might be great. The reason is because
14:49people don't like to be bossed. They
14:50don't like to be evaluated. You don't
14:52want to have lunch with somebody who's
14:53like Mike firing you.
14:55>> That's not fun. That's not fun for
14:57people and so a lot of people they they
14:58get elevated into the into the chief
15:00executive position and then they find
15:02that they're really lonely because their
15:03old friends are different. They've
15:05changed. They become very isolated and
15:07they become angry because
15:09they they thought they were going to
15:11have all this control and they don't
15:12over their own lives and over the lives
15:14of other people. These are fundamentally
15:15relationship issues and you need to
15:17learn how to relate to people
15:18differently when you actually become a
15:20leader is the way that that works. And
15:21so that's relationship management for
15:23leaders is something I talk about an
15:25awful lot.
15:26>> So is that your way of saying that
15:28loneliness is probably I mean they say
15:30it's lonely at the top, right? And so if
15:32you can't change that, you just find a
15:33different strategy to make those
15:36relationships work where you are.
15:38>> That that is true, but also you need the
15:40relationships is what it comes down to.
15:42That's one of the reasons that that that
15:43the CEOs who tend to be happiest are
15:45those who have good marriages. Because
15:47your best friend is your roommate is the
15:49person you're going to bed with every
15:51night. That should be your best friend.
15:52That's somebody who actually knows your
15:53secrets and who cares about you as a
15:55person, not as a CEO. When you're you're
15:57not going to come home to your wife and
15:59she's going to say, "Hi boss." I hope.
16:01Right? I mean and "Hi honey." That's
16:04what you want actually and and that's
16:05the kind of relationship you need to
16:07cultivate. You need friends outside,
16:09which is one of the reasons I coach a
16:10lot of people to go back to the people
16:12that they loved the most in college. You
16:15know, when they were in college that's
16:16when people make a lot of their early
16:17young adult best friendships and going
16:19back and recultivating those friendships
16:20and and going and golfing with those
16:22people. And and there's exactly right. I
16:25mean business contacts that's business,
16:27but you need to actually cultivate the
16:29love in your life and the friendships in
16:30your life as well. And then I actually
16:32recommend that a lot of chief executives
16:34that they get into they they form groups
16:35of chief chief executives.
16:37>> that a lot.
16:37>> Yeah, for these kind of there there's
16:39you know, the group YPO all over the
16:41world is a fantastic organization. They
16:43have the YPO forums. Join one. And and
16:46they're talking about the struggles that
16:47they face in in a low pressure
16:49environment because you know, nobody's
16:51going to judge you. You're going to
16:52learn from each other is the way that
16:54that works. So those are ways that you
16:55can take care of that, but don't be
16:56lonely. Don't don't put up with that.
16:58>> Yeah. Okay, for you.
16:59>> Right.
17:00>> Let's say that you had a month off.
17:02>> Right.
17:02>> Free from all obligation. How would you
17:05choose to spend that time?
17:06>> Yeah. So it's I I could take a month off
17:09free from all because I you know, I have
17:11a lot of control at this age of my own
17:13life and I've chosen not to take a month
17:16off typically, but when I
17:17[clears throat] have, I have I've spent
17:18it in the same way in the past. Um the
17:21last couple of times I've taken a month
17:22off, I walked the Camino de Santiago,
17:24which is a long walk across northern
17:27Spain. It's a pilgrimage. It's a
17:29religious pilgrimage. And all you're
17:31doing is walking and praying and
17:34thinking and being with yourself. And it
17:37has been cru- incredibly generative.
17:39>> How many times have you done that?
17:40>> Twice. I've done that twice. In 2019 and
17:422021 I did it. And I'm looking forward
17:44to doing it again. My wife doesn't love
17:46it. I have to say because you know, just
17:48walking for you know, weeks and weeks is
17:49not you know, her cup of tea.
17:51>> while you walk?
17:51>> Of course, yeah. For sure. And and we
17:53spend a lot of time together and it's
17:54really good for our marriage for sure.
17:55But I mean, it's like she has she likes
17:57the beach and likes doing normal things
17:59as well. But that's really what I like
18:00to do because it gives me philosophical
18:02time and there's a lot of research that
18:04shows that pilgrimages, whether they're
18:05secular or or or religious, they're
18:08very, very good for the brain, very good
18:11for the mind, very good for the soul.
18:13And I recommend that everybody take time
18:14away. And if you don't know what to do
18:16and you have a lot of unanswered
18:17questions in your life, go for a long
18:19walk. That's the most human thing you
18:21can do.
18:21>> So, walking is great. I also have a
18:23question about sleep. So, there's a
18:25saying that in order to be happy, you
18:28just need a good night's sleep.
18:29>> Yeah.
18:30>> Based on your research and what we know
18:32about the brain and the body, do you Is
18:34that true? Do you
18:35>> Well, it's it's sort of true. Um
18:37the problem with that is that that
18:39confuses happiness and unhappiness. So,
18:41happiness and unhappiness are not
18:42opposites. They're actually processed
18:44emotionally in different halves of the
18:45brain. Largely unhappiness is produced
18:48on the right-hand side of the brain and
18:49it's an excess of negative emotionality
18:52and negative experiences. It's that
18:53that's actually the producers of of
18:55unhappiness. And you're unhappy for good
18:57reasons. You need negative emotions as
19:00as a kind of an alarm system for threats
19:02to make sure that you stay alive. And
19:04you need fear and sadness and anger and
19:06disgust. You need these things for sure.
19:09The problem is when they start to become
19:10obstructive, when they start to take
19:12over your life. Sleep is one of the ways
19:14that we manage unhappiness more than
19:16that it doesn't make us happy. So and
19:18there are a lot of things like exercise
19:20is better for managing unhappiness than
19:21bringing happiness. And so one of the
19:23things that I talk about with executives
19:25is we do an inventory. What's your
19:27bigger challenge? Happiness or
19:28unhappiness?
19:29And and then you manage to your bigger
19:31challenge. And so with a lot of
19:32executives they're pretty happy, but
19:34they're also pretty unhappy.
19:36>> So you tackle the unhappy.
19:37>> right. And I take sources of unhappiness
19:39out of their life.
19:40>> Do you tell them to sleep more?
19:41>> Yeah, I tell them I tell them to sleep
19:43more. I tell them to get into the gym. I
19:44tell them to cut down on their commute.
19:46I I talk to them about how to manage
19:49um anxiety in their relationships. What
19:51to do actually with chronic worry.
19:54These are things that I'm working with
19:55with uh with executives and and and and
19:58athletes and actors and people like that
20:00who have really high levels of
20:01unhappiness. So happiness isn't a
20:03problem.
20:04>> see. I see. So you approach it from the
20:05other side.
20:06>> Exactly right.
20:06>> So for people who are finding their
20:08lives empty or devoid of meaning or
20:11unenjoyable.
20:12>> Right.
20:13>> What is a question that they should ask
20:15themselves in order to start rebuilding
20:17a life that is happier?
20:19>> So that's a lot about what I write about
20:21now which is the meaning of life. What
20:22is the meaning of meaning and why is it
20:24such a problem? The depression and
20:26anxiety epidemic that we see all around
20:28the world that's not because of work
20:29burnout. That's because of social media
20:31and screens. That's because of the
20:33overuse of technology. And what that's
20:34done is that's leached the sense of
20:36meaning out of our lives. Now there's a
20:38reason for that fundamentally which is
20:40when you're using technology you're
20:41forcing brain activity into the left
20:44hemisphere of your brain. The right
20:45hemisphere is where you deal with
20:47meaning. And so you're not even asking
20:49meaning questions anymore. And that
20:50makes people's lives weirdly feel empty
20:53and that's been happening more and more
20:54and more since 2008 2009. We've seen it
20:56progressively. That's happening every
20:58place. I mean I I see whole families
20:59around the dinner table all over the
21:01world where everybody's looking at their
21:02phones and
21:03well surprise surprise people getting
21:05depressed and anxious as a result of
21:06that. That's what people need to be
21:08paying attention to. Is paying attention
21:10to the way the technology is interacting
21:12with their lives and the extent to which
21:13they're becoming lonely and and isolated
21:16from other people and that's the thing
21:18that actually needs to change.
21:19>> So, on social media, because I think
21:22people these days are
21:24they're more accustomed to
21:26provocative content, sensational content
21:29on shorts and reels and clickbait news.
21:32Social media is a part of life. You
21:34can't completely get rid of it, but what
21:36advice do you have
21:38for people to make that platform
21:41if not beneficial, less harmful?
21:43>> You can make it beneficial. You
21:44absolutely can, but you have to put We
21:46have to put guardrails around it. So,
21:48>> Time?
21:49>> Yeah, time to begin with. When you're
21:50looking at it during the day, the total
21:52amount and what you're using it for.
21:53Those are the three basic rules. So, the
21:55time it shouldn't ever be in the first
21:57hour of the day. You should never look
21:58at social media in the first hour of the
21:59day because that's when neurocognitive
22:01programming is most important. That's
22:03when you're setting the theme for the
22:05rest of your day. Your brain is starting
22:06to work consciously during that period.
22:09You also shouldn't look at it in the
22:10last hour of the day because you'll
22:11you'll wreck your sleep architecture.
22:13The saddest thing that I ever see is a
22:15couple lying in bed and they're both
22:17looking at their phones at social media
22:18because that's really isolating. It's
22:20really bad for your marriage, but it's
22:21also bad for your brain. So, that's
22:22really important is is when you're doing
22:24it. I recommend that looking at social
22:26media for not more than 60 minutes a day
22:28across all platforms summed together and
22:31doing it during a time that you
22:32designate to look at social media. Say
22:34okay, the next 20 minutes, I'm going to
22:36look at I'm going to look at Instagram.
22:38That's what I'm going to do. I'm going
22:39to look at Instagram for I'm going to do
22:40it on purpose. I'm not going to do it
22:41accidentally and it's not just going to
22:43be because I'm sitting on the train.
22:44It's going to be I've decided that the
22:4620 minutes that I'm on the train, that's
22:48my Instagram time and do it on purpose.
22:50Now, what you'll find is that Instagram
22:51is super boring.
22:52>> [laughter]
22:53>> You didn't know that because you had
22:54unlimited access to it and you were
22:56using it to distract you. But so, that
22:58means that you need to use it for
22:59particular ends. Unfollow everybody you
23:02don't know. Everybody that you don't
23:04know who's just an influencer or, you
23:06know, some
23:07>> celebrity
23:09>> That stuff is not worth your time. You
23:10know, if you're a scientist like I am,
23:11then I'm I'm following science accounts.
23:13Right now I'm working on a book on
23:14relationships and and so I'm following
23:16people from all over the world that give
23:17relationship advice. Some of it
23:19terrible, but I learn from it. The
23:21second is loving. Follow people that you
23:22actually know and love. Family members,
23:25friends, follow those people and
23:26interact with them on social media, but
23:28not people you don't know unless you're
23:29learning from them. And last is laughing
23:31or a sort of dessert after the meal of
23:34social media is you got a couple of
23:35people that you follow you think are
23:36just completely hilarious.
23:38But nothing else. Learning, loving, and
23:39laughing and that's it and no more than
23:41an hour a day and during those times and
23:42your life will change.
23:43>> Well, I did delete Instagram from my
23:45phone a couple months ago and I've been
23:47so much more productive and happier.
23:49>> You've been happier? Was it hard at
23:50first?
23:51>> No, because I wasn't really on it that
23:53much to begin with, but I just noticed
23:55every time I looked at it, I wouldn't be
23:57>> It was sucking you in a little bit.
24:00>> thinking about things which I didn't
24:01want to waste my time on. So, it highly
24:04recommend people
24:05>> What do you think? So, what about your
24:06child?
24:07>> My child Is she on social media? She's
24:09six. She's never going to be on.
24:10>> [laughter]
24:12>> Until I can control it.
24:13>> We'll we'll we'll talk again in 10
24:15years.
24:17>> So, I want to go back to a point that
24:19you made about you should never look at
24:21your phone the first hour of the day.
24:22>> Right.
24:23>> So, I want to go back to the morning.
24:25>> Right.
24:25>> So, since you've known so many happy,
24:28successful people, hopefully
24:30>> Mhm.
24:30>> Um what is something that you should
24:33never do in the morning if you want to
24:35stay happy besides social media? Or is
24:36that the one thing?
24:37>> yeah. Well, there's lots of things that
24:38you can actually do that marginally do,
24:40but the big one of course is technology.
24:42That's the big thing to do.
24:43>> Email, too?
24:43>> Uh well, you know, what I recommend for
24:45some people. So, you know, you're in
24:46this line of work, you kind of need to
24:48look at your phone to make sure that
24:49nothing is on fire in Korea because
24:50you're working in two countries, United
24:52States and Korea, and they're 12 hours
24:53apart more or less, which means that
24:55when you wake up in the mornings, it's
24:57been all day in Korea. So you need to
24:59look at it and say, "Ah, okay, it's
25:00okay, but put it down immediately." When
25:02you know that nothing's on fire, you can
25:04put down your phone and then not look at
25:05it for an hour. So
25:07nothing. Then what I recommend is that
25:09people actually use that for for really
25:11two that hour or even a little bit more
25:14for two fundamental activities. Number
25:16one is exercise, which when you do it
25:18first thing in the morning is very, very
25:19good for your brain, very good for your
25:21happiness. It's really good for that. So
25:24if people are just starting out, go walk
25:26outside for an hour. I recommend getting
25:27up before dawn. If you're if the sun is
25:29already warm, you've lost the first
25:31battle. So get up at least half an hour
25:33before dawn and so you can especially if
25:35you're walking outside, the sun comes
25:36up, this will change your brain. It's
25:38>> Do you get get get up at dawn?
25:39>> I get up at 4:30 every day. So that's
25:41before dawn all year round. It's a long
25:43time before dawn or just a little bit
25:45before dawn depending on the season, for
25:46example. Now that's harder to do if
25:48you're living in Finland
25:50>> It would be hard to
25:51>> it's it's never dark and so you would
25:52never go to bed and so obviously, you
25:54need to adapt this to your
25:55circumstances, for sure.
25:56>> Is that sustainable though?
25:58>> Yeah, it it really is once you get used
25:59to it. And that starts the night before
26:00because we talked about sleep a minute
26:02ago.
26:02>> Yeah.
26:02>> That means you got to get to bed. If
26:04you're going if you're getting up at
26:054:30, you better be going to bed at
26:069:00.
26:07>> Do you go to bed at 9:00?
26:08>> Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I do. I go to bed at
26:109:00 and I like it. I like it an awful
26:12lot, I have to say. I don't take work
26:13dinners for that reason. I don't I don't
26:15like work dinners because you
26:17and you're
26:17>> You're not going to bed at 9:00.
26:19>> You're not going to bed at a work
26:20dinner. And you know, and it it it it
26:23messes you up. And and I'm on the road
26:25all the time. I'm on on on the road 48
26:26weeks a year and so I need to you know,
26:28I I need to have these rules for what I
26:30do. And again, I'm not suggesting any of
26:32you folks make the the perfect the enemy
26:34of the good, right? I mean, you need to
26:36adapt this to your own schedule, but
26:37these are the basic habits. And then I
26:39recommend some meditation time, some
26:41reading or some worship depending on
26:43what your what your what your what your
26:45behavior is, what your beliefs are. So I
26:48as a Catholic, I go to mass every
26:49morning after I after I exercise at 6:30
26:52every morning And and that's really
26:54really important to me cuz because
26:55that's the soul part of it. Some people
26:57read something profound, not work stuff,
26:59something deep, something really
27:01worthwhile, or they meditate. All of
27:02those things are good to do. And and and
27:04by the way, no coffee before the end of
27:07that period. So, if you're exercising
27:09and then and then using your spiritual
27:11time, all of that is unobstructed by
27:13chemicals.
27:14>> I see.
27:15>> important for your brain. And and the
27:16other thing about it is that a lot of
27:17people use coffee to wake up, and that's
27:19a mistake. You should use it to focus as
27:22opposed to waking up. And that means you
27:24need a couple of hours between waking up
27:26and when you drink your caffeine, so
27:28that you can use it to focus your brain.
27:29And that makes you much more productive
27:31and a lot happier. So, that's when I eat
27:33and drink coffee after all that is done.
27:35And then I get four unobstructed hours
27:38of productive creative work, which I
27:40would have only had two if I were
27:41leaving my brain to what it was doing
27:43before. So, I recommend some sort of
27:44protocol like that. And and almost
27:46everybody can get good benefits.
27:47>> So, is that what your morning looks
27:49like?
27:49>> morning looks like.
27:50>> So, so set the scene for me.
27:51>> Right.
27:51>> The alarm rings. It's 4:30, that's an
27:53ungodly hour for
27:54>> [laughter]
27:55>> It's early, yeah.
27:56>> Yeah, yeah. So, so what happens? What do
27:57you do?
27:58>> I get up. I I I go downstairs. I make
28:01electrolyte water mixture, and I go down
28:04to my gym. I have a gym in my house.
28:06And I work out for an hour. I work out
28:08from 4:45 to 5:45.
28:10>> to something or
28:11>> Sometimes, sometimes not. I try to at
28:12least two or three times a week not be
28:14listening to something because it's
28:15actually good for your brain to work out
28:17without headphones.
28:18>> Right.
28:19>> And and sometimes I do it when I'm
28:20trying to learn something. I'm not just
28:21like zoning out. I'm trying to actually
28:23learn something, but something that's
28:25not too hard. If it's too hard, I won't
28:26learn it because your blood pressure is
28:29moving up and down as you're exercising,
28:30and it distracts you. It makes it hard
28:32to focus. So, it has to be the right
28:34kind of thing that I'm learning.
28:36Um or you know, sometimes music, but but
28:38the the whole point is that sometimes
28:40silence is best. That's really good for
28:42your brain. 5:45, I'm done. I take a
28:44shower. I go to mass with my wife. We're
28:46there at 6:30 from 6:30 to 7:00.
28:48>> So you do spiritual and family
28:50relationship at once.
28:51>> Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's
28:52how we start the day. That's right.
28:53Heart, body, and soul. [laughter] So
28:54then and then I come back by 7:30. And
28:57if I'm working at home, which I do
28:58sometimes, either I I drive to my
29:00office, which is pretty near my home, or
29:02or when I'm actually at my home, um
29:04that's when I make coffee and I have a
29:06very, very high protein breakfast.
29:08Protein is really important for focus
29:10and it actually will improve mood a lot,
29:12especially if it's something like yogurt
29:13that has tryptophan, which is a good
29:15mood booster, as it turns out. And then
29:17I will get from 7:30 to 11:30, 4 hours
29:21of incredible focus and productivity.
29:23>> Because you've already woken up.
29:24>> I've optimized my brain chemistry.
29:26>> And you've worked out spiritually, mind
29:29and body.
29:30>> caffeine isn't in there yet.
29:31>> I see.
29:32>> pour the caffeine on top of that. It's
29:35It's a nootropic It's a nootropic drug,
29:37actually. It's a great nootropic drug.
29:39>> words. I'm I'm loving it. Yeah.
29:41That's where you learn things.
29:42>> Yeah, what that does is that actually
29:43draws dopamine into the prefrontal
29:45cortex of your brain, which gives you
29:47creativity and pro and focus.
29:49>> Without having that social media give it
29:51to you and the lingering effects.
29:53>> Why would you waste your productivity
29:55and your focus on on somebody's idiotic
29:58Instagram feed? That's just [laughter] a
29:59big mistake.
30:01>> So I have a question about AI. But
30:03because AI is transforming our world,
30:05>> Right.
30:06>> uh especially in our children's
30:08generation,
30:08>> Right.
30:09>> and so as a professor who teaches
30:12students, as a researcher of happiness,
30:15but above all as a parent,
30:17>> Mhm.
30:18>> what is a skill or an ability that you
30:21think children must foster in order to
30:24find a happiness that's sustainable?
30:26>> What what AI skills specifically?
30:28>> Not AI skills. Not AI, but because we're
30:31in an age of AI, what skills as a human
30:35do you think children must have?
30:36>> The The skills that they have is is not
30:38how to use technology, but but the right
30:41way to integrate technology into your
30:43life. So, I mean everybody knows the
30:44technology of screens. Everybody knows
30:46how to use a PC. Everybody knows how to
30:47use all these particular technologies,
30:49but they don't know how to use them
30:50right in such a way that they're better
30:52for your life.
30:53The way to think about small screens,
30:55large screens, any screens, and AI for
30:57that matter, is if they if they
30:59substitute for human relationships,
31:00they're going to make your life worse.
31:02And that's what kids need to learn. They
31:04need to learn the dangers and how to
31:05make these technologies into tools.
31:08These your technology is not a friend.
31:10The technology is not entertainment. The
31:12technology is a tool. And if you're
31:14using it as a tool to connect you with
31:15people that you love and to make your
31:17work easier, great. I love that. But if
31:19it's actually obstructing your
31:21relationships with other people, it's a
31:22big big problem. So, for example, AI,
31:25everybody's talking about AI. I use AI
31:27every day. You probably do, too. It's a
31:29big part of my work. It's doing all
31:31kinds of weird things to my profession.
31:33It's making books harder to sell.
31:36Because people are using AI instead of
31:38reading books.
31:40It's happening happening really fast.
31:42Really I mean, it takes a couple of days
31:43to read a book, you know, and even I
31:45will say, "Ah, man, I don't have time.
31:47That book, give me a thousand words that
31:49summarize that book." And it's a pretty
31:50good summary, right? So, I see that
31:52that's actually working. Everybody
31:54watching us uses AI and all the young
31:56people are going to use it more and AI
31:58is going to be agentic and better going
32:00into the future.
32:01Here are the rules that we need to teach
32:03our kids so that we can be more human
32:05and not less human. If you're using it
32:08as a substitute relationship, it's going
32:10to hurt your life. It's going to make
32:12you
32:12It's going to make you depressed. It's
32:13going to make you anxious. It's going to
32:14make you lonely, which means you should
32:16never use it as a friend. You should
32:18never use it to get the girlfriend
32:20experience.
32:21>> Or as a therapist.
32:22>> Uh and especially never as a therapist.
32:24You don't ask it for advice in in in
32:27ways beyond sort of mechanical things in
32:28your life. How to set up your vacation,
32:30two thumbs up.
32:32How to fix your relationship with your
32:33mother, that's a problem, right? Do you
32:35understand me in a three years of
32:36conversations with ChatGPT, that's the
32:39it might feel like a real person
32:41understands you, but your brain knows
32:42the difference, and your brain will make
32:44you pay. It will make you lonelier and
32:46more depressed, even if it seems
32:48human-like. What do you want it to do?
32:50To to to do all the how-to and what
32:53questions that are you're working with
32:54in your work, and then use the time that
32:57it saves for you to spend in person with
32:59real-life human beings, and that's how
33:01you'll get your life That's how your
33:02life will be better.
33:02>> So, you mentioned that you go visit the
33:05Dalai Lama almost every year.
33:07>> Almost every year, yeah.
33:07>> [snorts]
33:08>> What have you learned about life from
33:11your time with him?
33:12>> Yeah, you know, the Dalai Lama and I
33:13have known each other for the past 13
33:15years, and it's been a wonderful and
33:16rewarding relationship. I brought him to
33:18the States several times, and I've I've
33:20gone to his home in Dharamshala in the
33:22Himalayan foothills, where he has his
33:23monastery, and and we've done
33:24conferences and and meetings together.
33:26We've written together. We've written
33:27articles together. We've shot a
33:29documentary film together, and it's been
33:30a really beautiful relationship. So,
33:32I've learned so
33:33very much from him. And what I've
33:36learned from him is this idea that that
33:38that life is I've been learning a lot of
33:39things from him, actually. I could, you
33:41know, at some point I'll I'll write a
33:42book about all the lessons I've learned
33:43from His Holiness the Dalai Lama. In my
33:45new book, The Meaning of Your Life, I
33:46actually have a I have a one of the
33:48chapters starts with my relationship
33:50with the Dalai Lama and things that I've
33:52learned from him. But, fundamentally,
33:53one of the things I think about every
33:54day
33:55that he taught me is that that the life
33:59requires that we have goals and
34:00direction, so that we can have
34:01direction, so we can go in a particular
34:04direction and make progress.
34:06Um, but we shouldn't be attached to the
34:08thing that we're looking for. Everybody
34:10watching us, all the strivers who are
34:12watching us, they have all these big
34:13goals in their life and dreams, and and
34:15great. I admire that so much. The Dalai
34:18Lama says that's intention. You need
34:20intention in your life. That gives you
34:21purpose and meaning and focus, [snorts]
34:23and that's great.
34:25But, don't be attached to that. Always
34:27say to yourself,
34:28"I have these goals. It's going to be
34:30that or something better."
34:32And and that's a that's a Buddhist
34:34concept called intention without
34:36attachment. And that's really changed my
34:38life. It's really changed my life a lot
34:40because I'm always I'm such a hard
34:41worker and I'm always going in a you
34:43know, in as many miles and hours I
34:45possibly can. I mean, bring it on. Bring
34:47it on.
34:48But I recognize that the that the
34:50ultimate the ultimate outcome is a
34:52little bit out of my control. I believe
34:54it's in God's hands. And so I pray every
34:56day. I say I say
34:58I'm I'm working for something that I
35:00want, but not my will, your will. Cuz I
35:03know your will be better than mine. And
35:04even if you're not religious, you can do
35:06that as well. The Dalai Lama's not
35:07praying to God like I am. But he says
35:09you need to have intention toward a goal
35:12and not be attached to the goal itself.
35:14That's the right frame of mind for
35:17everybody in business, actually. That's
35:19actually the frame of mind that leads to
35:20the best business outcomes.
35:22>> It It seems to me sense, but then you
35:23think of you know, we have to reach
35:25these targets. That's what they have in
35:27these meetings.
35:28>> I know, but it's a really interesting
35:29thing because what we studied at the at
35:31the Harvard Business School is not the
35:32Dalai Lama's philosophy. But we have
35:34studied the most successful CEOs. And
35:36what they all have in common is that
35:37they set the goal. They set the object
35:41of the intention, and then they focus on
35:43the process.
35:44>> Not the result.
35:45>> Not the result. Focus on the process,
35:47not the result. That's what all the
35:48greatest CEOs do. If you're focusing on
35:49the result and not the process, your
35:51company's going to fall apart.
35:52>> But have the intent.
35:53>> Have the intent, absolutely. But if you
35:55if you have the intent, and then you
35:57design the process to meet the goal, and
35:59then you focus on the process,
36:01you're going to get the goal or
36:02something better.
36:03>> The intention is to be happier.
36:05>> Right.
36:05>> So that's the intention. The process is
36:09>> Enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning.
36:10>> And meaning, and all the things that we
36:12discussed to
36:13get toward it, but don't be attached to
36:14it. Whether you find out if it's
36:16actually happening or you don't have to
36:18>> Not exactly right. Cuz you know, the
36:19people who walk around all day saying,
36:20"Am I happy? I want to be happier."
36:22They're so unhappy.
36:23>> Right.
36:24>> They're so unhappy. But the people who
36:25are actually doing something, doing the
36:27things that actually bring more
36:29happiness, that those are the people who
36:31are most effective. So so for example,
36:32you know, I I talked to a lot of people
36:34who have trouble in their marriages.
36:35Like they're they can't they can't stop
36:37fighting for all all sorts of reasons.
36:39And they say, "I want to have a happier
36:40marriage. I want to have a happy
36:41Stop worrying about having a happier
36:43marriage. Do the three or four things
36:45you need to do to have a happier
36:47marriage. Focus on those things and
36:48guess what?" The intention will lead to
36:51a goal that takes care of itself.
36:52>> So there's a saying that money can't buy
36:54happiness.
36:56But there are also certain things that
36:58you shouldn't skimp on even if you're
37:00financially stretched in order to be
37:02happy.
37:03What are some of those things for you?
37:05>> So it is true that money can't buy
37:06happiness under the traditional
37:08circumstances. People think if I get a
37:10boat, will I be happier? No, you won't.
37:12If I get the world's most expensive car,
37:14will I be happier? Nope. A fourth house,
37:16these things won't do it. But there are
37:18ways that you can spend money on and
37:20that you actually should that will bring
37:21greater happiness. There's five ways you
37:23can spend your money. You can buy
37:24things, you can buy experiences,
37:28and spend those experiences with people
37:29you love. You can buy time and use that
37:32time to better yourself or spend it with
37:34people you love. You can give the money
37:37away to things you really really care
37:39about, and you can save your money.
37:41Those are the five things. And you have
37:42to do every single dollar that you earn,
37:45you have to do one of those five things
37:46with it, right? It turns out that
37:48everybody thinks cuz Mother Nature
37:50doesn't care if you're happy that buying
37:51the stuff is what will actually make you
37:52happy, and that's the only one that
37:54won't. The other four will. If you buy
37:56experiences and spend the time with
37:58people you love, if you buy time and
38:00have more time with the people in your
38:02life or or time in bettering yourself
38:04and exercising and praying or whatever
38:06you do, that's really great. If you give
38:08your money away to people you care
38:10about, the causes that are meaningful,
38:12or if you save for the future, which
38:13gives you a you and your children a
38:14better future, all those things actually
38:16will buy happiness. And so the important
38:18thing is not spending more money.
38:21The The important thing is spending your
38:22money on the right thing. And if you
38:24understand that, then you have to go
38:26against your nature to buy more junk and
38:29and and spend it on the things that
38:30actually matter, you'll get happier.
38:31>> I think this is a great way to end. So,
38:33Professor Brooks, thank you so much.
38:35>> Thanks for being with me.

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