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Grow or Die with John Morgan | How the Largest Law Firm in America Was Built | Raw Law Media — Transcript

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0:00I hunt money is my hobby.
0:02>> Hold up, son. We got to rewind the tape
0:04about 10 minutes.
0:27>> [music]
0:48[music]
0:52>> All right, gentlemen. You're right on
0:54time. You're now listening to the John
0:56Morgan podcast with Raw Law Media
0:58presented by Raw Law dot AI.
1:01>> I don't even know if I need to introduce
1:02who's next to me right now, but this is
1:04the John Morgan. We're here with Raw Law
1:06Media and John was kind enough and his
1:08team was kind enough to let us come in
1:10and have a conversation about him.
1:12Uh he's got a new book out. There's an
1:13event calling Grow or Die coming up in
1:15Vegas as well, too, that we're going to
1:16get into. I've been in the personal
1:18injury space doing marketing for about 6
1:20years. For 6 years I've uh tried to
1:22reach out to your side. You're like the
1:24North Star, you know, and I'm I'm not
1:25afraid to admit it, right? It's like you
1:27were the type of person that I wanted to
1:29sit down with have a conversation with
1:31and I thought about when people deliver
1:32a message. When people deliver a
1:34message, it hit me today that 90% of the
1:36message is background, 10% is actually
1:40what's being said. For example, people
1:42see Morgan & Morgan's billboards, Morgan
1:44& Morgan's marketing, and I hear it all
1:46the time. We should try to do what
1:47they're doing to some capacity. Look at
1:49what they're doing. Why can't we pull it
1:50off? That's why Morgan & Morgan is so
1:52successful. There's so many years of
1:54build up that allow your message, your
1:56marketing to hit. Oh, yeah. And that's
1:59probably why a lot of these other law
2:00firms can't do it cuz they haven't put
2:02in enough work. I mean, there's firms
2:03that have been around for like two,
2:04three, four years.
2:05>> Well, our greatest strength is the time
2:07we've been in business. I mean, look,
2:08you you look at
2:10a business and one of the first things
2:12you want to know is how long have they
2:13been in business? The longer somebody's
2:15been in business, the more credible they
2:17are. Why? Because most businesses go out
2:20of business.
2:21And if you've been around for 35 years
2:24and you keep growing and growing and
2:25growing, it's for a reason. If you pull
2:28up to a restaurant and the parking lot's
2:30full,
2:31you go you go you walk up and you'll
2:33wait in line. If you pull into a
2:35restaurant and the parking lot's empty,
2:38you pull out. You don't even get out of
2:40the car cuz you've seen all you need to
2:42see. So, that's kind of how
2:45I look at that question, credibility.
2:47It's, you know, it's reputation, years
2:50in
2:51and years out. People say a lot of [ __ ]
2:54>> Yeah.
2:54>> to make themselves feel better. You
2:57can't listen to that. Here's the truth.
2:59Our law firm is on a docket 100 to 150
3:03times
3:04a week.
3:05>> [sighs]
3:06>> Every week.
3:07>> Yeah.
3:07>> We try more cases than any other firm in
3:10the country by hundreds and hundreds and
3:14hundreds of cases. Our results
3:17are gigantic. All you have to do is go
3:19online to forthepeople.com,
3:21look at the offer, look at the
3:23settlements.
3:24We're the opposite of a mill. And the
3:26way we've built our firm is that when
3:28somebody comes to our firm,
3:30they're getting they don't just get one
3:32lawyer, they get two or three lawyers,
3:35they get a paralegal, they get
3:37attorney-client satisfaction.
3:40They get the best and the most
3:43deep care
3:45at this big firm cuz I built this firm
3:48that way, that the client comes first
3:51and that we'll spend extra money on
3:53people
3:55to make sure that happens. So, look,
3:57people been saying it for a long time,
3:59but
4:00the numbers don't lie, and it's not
4:03bragging if it's a fact.
4:04>> I agree with you, and that's actually my
4:06favorite part about your personality. As
4:08you say it how it is. And so, [snorts]
4:10um I saw this.
4:12Forbes recently named you a billionaire.
4:15Uh self-made, right?
4:17>> They had another article where they
4:18named the top 250 self-made people in
4:22America. They had me at 92, they had
4:25Oprah at number one. They had Clinton at
4:27eight.
4:28>> Yeah. They had Leo Leonardo DiCaprio
4:30ahead of me, but they had Mark Cuban
4:32behind me. Which I'm like, why did they
4:34do that? Cuz he's bigger than me. But,
4:37uh
4:37but I am self-made because I started you
4:40know, when you start from scratch
4:42>> Mhm.
4:44>> you're self-made. Right. So, they had it
4:47right about being self-made. Right. But,
4:51with that said, I understand
4:55what happened in my life because I'm the
4:57only one that has seen the whole movie.
5:01And what I know is that there were a
5:03thousand left turns, a thousand right
5:05turns, a thousand U-turns, and one turn,
5:09one different turn changes everything.
5:13>> Mhm.
5:14>> Everything.
5:15>> Explain that to me, please.
5:16>> Explain like this. Okay, I'm in law
5:18school. I go to church every Sunday, but
5:21I'm not a you know, daily mass guy. But,
5:23one day I go to law school I go to the
5:25mass
5:27I go to mass
5:28and
5:315:00 mass, I get in the communion line,
5:34I look ahead of me, and there's this
5:36girl in a pair of terry cloth shorts and
5:39a spaghetti top, and I'm like, [ __ ]
5:43>> [laughter]
5:44>> You know, I'm like, that is
5:45unbelievable. And then I'm like, well,
5:47she's got to be ugly and then she turns
5:49around and she's not ugly. And so I go
5:52out and get her name and number. It
5:54turns out her name is Ultima. It turns
5:56out she's already graduated law school.
5:59It turns out she's teaching legal
6:00writing at the law school and I get a
6:02date.
6:04If I don't go
6:05by chance to church that day, I don't
6:09marry her,
6:11I don't have my kids, I don't have my
6:13grandkids.
6:15And by the way, she's been one of the
6:17big supporters of me in this whole
6:19journey. She's the one that would always
6:21say go.
6:23So that's just one example.
6:25There's thousands in life and love and
6:29business where you take a turn and it
6:32turns out to be good, you take a turn it
6:33turns out to be bad. And then we get to
6:35the end and we look back
6:39and we want to say that we did it all
6:41and of course the reason we want to say
6:43it was all us is because we really did
6:46work hard. I mean, I worked my [ __ ]
6:49ass off. Nobody worked harder than me.
6:52So so I take that. But guess what?
6:55Here's a Here's the lucky part of life.
6:58Today in the jungle a sloth will be
7:00born.
7:02Okay. The sloth is [ __ ] day one.
7:05They They They can barely come down They
7:08come out of the tree once a day just to
7:09[ __ ] and they go back up and sleep. Just
7:12biologically,
7:14they're [ __ ]
7:16A lion is born
7:18and he's the king.
7:20She's the queen. And all they did was be
7:22born.
7:24We're born in America instead of North
7:27Korea.
7:29You know, we had good parents instead of
7:31bad parents. We went to good schools
7:33instead of bad schools. It's all these
7:36different turns and twists and then you
7:38end up here and when you end up here,
7:41you can't just say, "Hey, it was all
7:43me." because it wasn't.
7:47There was a lot of luck along the way,
7:50and we're lucky
7:52to be workers.
7:54You know, Shaq When Shaq was here in
7:56town, I had a a restaurant down the
7:58street called Dennis Scott's 3D's.
8:01And Shaq was here, and we were friends.
8:04And but Shaq couldn't be Shaq unless he
8:07was 7'2".
8:09I couldn't be Shaq ever.
8:12Ever. I could barely be Muggsy Bogues.
8:15But cuz I can't dribble like Muggsy
8:17Bogues. But
8:20did that make Did Shaq do anything other
8:22than be born to be 7'2"? No. But Shaq
8:25did take those that God-given luck
8:30and worked his ass off. I watched that
8:32that guy from San Antonio. He don't even
8:34look like He looks like he's walking on
8:36stilts.
8:37>> Wemby.
8:38>> Wemby. But
8:40I mean, he might be the most He might be
8:42before it's over the greatest of all
8:44time.
8:44>> I could see it happening.
8:45>> I I can't believe what I'm watching.
8:48What I'm I mean, that guy's out there,
8:49you know, hitting threes like he's Steph
8:52Curry from half court.
8:54And so
8:56and I'm sure he's going to say I did it
8:58all myself, but I got news for Wemby.
9:00Unless you're built like a windmill
9:03and can run like a gazelle and shoot
9:05like ste- I mean, there's just a lot of
9:08genetics
9:10>> Yeah.
9:10>> that fall into life. And And the And the
9:13reason it's important to acknowledge it
9:16is because when you acknowledge it, you
9:18can be more grateful for it.
9:21So
9:22>> So you mentioned if there's a lot of
9:23luck.
9:25You have a book called Life is Luck.
9:28I would love for you to talk to me about
9:29the book a little bit.
9:31Um but something else that really stuck
9:33out to me that you just said was
9:35um you're born in whatever situation you
9:37have. There's there's really no way
9:39around that, obviously.
9:41Um,
9:42how does someone find what that given
9:43talent is, too, right? And and like how
9:45did you do it? And how do we tie it into
9:48this guy right here? Because I love the
9:50fact that this is called life is luck,
9:52and I I think, you know, I think it was
9:54Obama that said it, too. Like he was
9:55like life is all about luck. Like he
9:58even said part like he's like I think he
10:00said 70 to 80% of his success is because
10:01of luck. It's just the way it works.
10:03>> He's right, and
10:05>> And I was very close with him. I went to
10:07his
10:08>> Oh, wow.
10:08>> I was I went to his 50th birthday party
10:10at the White House. I went to Michelle's
10:1250th birthday at the White House. I went
10:14to the state dinners at the White House.
10:16I went to the last party at the White
10:18House. And Obama gets it cuz he is
10:21lucky.
10:21>> Mhm.
10:22>> But he was also lucky cuz he was born
10:24with some magic. I mean, that guy that
10:27guy just has magic.
10:28>> Yeah.
10:29>> And certain times there are certain
10:30people in life that almost are divinely
10:34inspired. Abraham Lincoln was divinely
10:37inspired. Martin Luther King was
10:39divinely inspired. George Washington was
10:43divinely inspired. I I think Barack
10:46Obama was divinely inspired because he
10:49was just so awesome. So,
10:52the book is about
10:54not about my life, but about my life
10:57stories and how luck played a part in my
10:59life story. But what I also always
11:01wanted to say and for people who are
11:03thinking about buying the book,
11:05this is not to say, "Hey, life is luck.
11:07There's no way." This is This is a
11:09how-to book. This is a how-to book to
11:12find luck.
11:14So, let me tell you about luck. There's
11:15three types of luck.
11:17There's pure luck. Lightning in a
11:20bottle.
11:20>> Okay.
11:21>> Or
11:22bad pure luck, a bolt of lightning hits
11:25you and kills you.
11:26>> Okay. Yeah.
11:26>> Okay? That's a form of luck.
11:28>> Okay. Got it.
11:29>> nothing to do with that. Then there's
11:31then there's planned luck.
11:34Benjamin Franklin sees the lightning in
11:36the sky and goes, "What's up there?"
11:38When it starts being a quick He gets a
11:39kite and a key and he lets it up and all
11:41of a sudden
11:42>> Got it.
11:43>> He His mind made him plan to experiment
11:48and harness electricity. That's planned
11:51luck. How do you get planned luck? You
11:53plan.
11:54>> Yeah. Yeah.
11:55>> You try. You look for opportunities. And
11:58then there's practiced luck.
12:00>> Okay.
12:01>> Practiced luck goes like this. One time
12:03Grant Hill, who's a buddy of mine and
12:05partner of mine in a bunch of things, he
12:07made the greatest pass of all time in
12:08college basketball. Threw the ball the
12:10length of the floor, hit Christian
12:12Laettner. He turns around and beats
12:14Kentucky at the buzzer. The pass. One
12:17time on the way home, I said to Grant, I
12:19said, "How did that pass come to be?"
12:21"We practiced it every day in practice.
12:24We practiced it every day in practice.
12:27We tried it against Wake Forest, but I
12:29threw it down the sideline. It didn't
12:30work. So, we started moving to the
12:32middle of the court. So, when it came
12:34time, Kentucky's up
12:36by one.
12:37Two seconds left. They take the ball out
12:39under the basket."
12:41Grant says, "Coach K calls time out. He
12:45says, 'Grant, can you make the pass?'
12:48He says, 'Yes, I can.'
12:50He says, 'Christian, can you make the
12:52shot?' 'Yes, I can.'
12:56"Then let's go out and win this game."
12:59Boom. Boom. Boom. When you saw When you
13:01see it on TV, you're like,
13:05"That's just pure luck."
13:07>> Yeah.
13:07>> It's not pure luck. Pure luck is getting
13:10hit by lightning. This is planned luck
13:13and practiced luck
13:17that has been practiced over and over
13:18again. On Sundays, you'll see a football
13:21team down, you know,
13:24by three or four points with 90 seconds
13:27left and they're on their five-yard line
13:29and then they go the length of the
13:31field. They practice that two-minute
13:33drill over and over and over and over
13:36again. Practiced and planned luck. So,
13:40this book is a way for us to find luck,
13:44to enhance luck, to get return on luck,
13:48to turn bad luck into good luck,
13:51and to make failure your friend. This is
13:55a how-to book to be successful.
14:00>> That's super interesting that you say
14:01all that, like the practice luck, cuz
14:03nobody knows that though. Like you said,
14:05everyone on the outside just thinks that
14:08thinks of it as lucky, but it's like I
14:10saw this thing once of Usain Bolt and
14:12it's like he practiced x amount of years
14:15for like 10 seconds, right? For the 10
14:18seconds that he had to show up and
14:19perform. Uh and I love that. Thank you
14:21for saying that because I had a
14:22conversation with my son 2 weeks ago. My
14:24son plays basketball, he's 10, and he's
14:25in the AAU. Absolutely obsessed. And so
14:28and he the coach tells him, like Noah,
14:31you're the you're you need to lead this
14:33team. Like unfortunately and
14:34fortunately, you have a talent, you have
14:36to put that on your shoulders. And so he
14:38did really bad the first game and I told
14:39him I was like, dude, you go to practice
14:40for 2 weeks and you come two times a
14:42month to play three games in a row. You
14:44have to turn on today, dude. Like this
14:47is what you're doing it for. If you're
14:48going to show up here and be shy or be
14:50scared or nervous,
14:51it doesn't make sense. You have the
14:53responsibility of like being the leader.
14:56>> you're saying to him about the practiced
14:58luck is this, repetition makes us
15:02luckier.
15:03>> Okay, so here's the Thank you.
15:04>> Malcolm Gladwell, repetition. You do it
15:07over and over and over and over again.
15:10That practiced luck makes you great.
15:14When you see Steph Curry shooting the
15:16ball, that didn't just happen.
15:19>> No.
15:20>> It's like your son. I mean, when we see
15:21your son doing that later, you're going
15:24to be saying nobody has any idea the
15:26hours you
15:28spent hooping with that guy.
15:32>> Okay, [snorts] you're helping me lead to
15:34the next thing. So, I appreciate you,
15:35man. You said repetition. So,
15:38I used to love music. I used to. I still
15:40love music. And so,
15:42one thing I learned about music
15:44>> I've got a big part about music in this
15:45book. You're going to love it.
15:47>> Oh my god.
15:48>> chapters about music.
15:49>> My better half, we're expecting a
15:50daughter in two months, has been forcing
15:53me
15:54to read. So, I'm I'm in on Kindle right
15:56now.
15:57And okay, wait, let me before I lose my
15:59train of thought. Repetition is catchy.
16:01Repetition is catchy. I learned that
16:03about music, right? That's the chorus of
16:04the song typically. Or
16:06something that's in the beat or the
16:07music or the instruments.
16:10Morgan & Morgan is repeated so many
16:13times. And so, I want to get into a
16:16little bit of marketing.
16:17You are a absolute giant when it comes
16:21to marketing. I have so much respect for
16:24the
16:25Sorry for lack of terms, but the balls
16:28that you got, dude. Like, you are you
16:30literally have no fear, and it seems
16:32like
16:33you don't give a [ __ ] what people say as
16:34long as you can get your message out to
16:37the people that need to see it.
16:39Like, your your billboard like this with
16:41your like, man, dude,
16:43it's just you come up with these things
16:45or whether it's you and your team, you
16:47have the courage to put it out there,
16:49whereas like so many other business
16:51owners, especially in your space, do not
16:54have the balls.
16:56Can you talk to me about where the hell
16:58did you develop that strength? How do
17:00you handle the criticism that comes with
17:02it?
17:03And why do you do it at such a high
17:06level? Obviously, I know it works, but I
17:08want to understand what's in your brain
17:11because
17:11>> Well, as far as the criticism goes, I
17:13have a real
17:14simple answer
17:16to the critics.
17:20Don't hate the player,
17:22>> [snorts]
17:22>> hate the game.
17:23Okay? So, that's number one.
17:26>> Yeah.
17:26>> This is the [ __ ] rules.
17:28>> Yeah.
17:29>> Okay? These are the rules.
17:31I'm going to go win.
17:32>> Sure. Yeah.
17:33>> And
17:36a lot of people
17:38have this they look at it it's what they
17:41can't do or what they won't do.
17:43>> Mhm.
17:44>> And comparison is the thief of joy.
17:46Comparison makes you you're you're not
17:49mad at me, you're really mad at
17:50yourself.
17:52Cuz you can't do it. What I decided as
17:55far as some of my messages it goes like
17:57this.
17:58I believe that being self-deprecating
18:02is a winning strategy.
18:04>> So, dude, I'm keep going cuz this is
18:06like this is this is yes. I'm going to
18:09keep going. Yeah.
18:09>> So, when I look you look at me, I'm not
18:11the guy on the billboard with washboard.
18:13Of course not. You know, I tell people
18:15all the time
18:17when they ask me why am I so tan?
18:19>> Yeah.
18:19>> I tell them very simply,
18:21brown fat looks better than white fat.
18:24And and and hard brown fat is almost
18:27like muscle. So, I'm I'm a a a fit guy.
18:30Period. So,
18:33obviously that's not my stomach.
18:35>> Sure.
18:36>> And me laying But but people see it and
18:40they laugh. And when you can laugh at
18:42yourself
18:43>> Mhm.
18:44>> with others, those people tend to come
18:46along, I believe.
18:48>> Yeah.
18:49>> So,
18:50so I've always done that. I've always
18:52taken shots at myself first because then
18:54it stops them from shooting at me
18:56themselves. When you When you shoot at
18:58yourself you call yourself fat first,
19:01how can they call you fat after that?
19:03That doesn't hurt. Sticks and stones
19:06may break my bones, but words will never
19:08hurt me. And you can't hurt me. I've
19:11been hurt.
19:12>> Yeah.
19:13>> I've been hurt.
19:14You know, when my brother got hurt, I
19:16got hurt so deeply that I'll never feel
19:19pain like that again.
19:20>> Mhm.
19:21>> You can't hurt me
19:23with words.
19:24>> Right.
19:24>> The only way the only way the only thing
19:26that can hurt me is something that
19:27happens to my family.
19:28>> Yeah.
19:29>> That would hurt me. Nothing else can
19:30hurt me.
19:31>> Mhm.
19:32>> So,
19:33so I do it and it works and I have a
19:35budget and I have a formula and I have a
19:37cost per acquisition that I want to get
19:40with my whole spend
19:41>> Yeah.
19:42>> and as long as that's clicking and if it
19:44keeps clicking, I'll spend more and more
19:46money. And they'll say, "How much money
19:48will you spend?"
19:50It's like this, as long as I know I'm
19:51getting X amount of cases for X amount
19:53of dollars, I look at it like this. If I
19:55told you that every time you went into
19:58the drive-thru teller and put $100 in
20:00the bank
20:01that the bank would take your 100 and
20:04give you 100, but you could only do it
20:06one time per drive-thru.
20:08>> Mhm.
20:08>> How many times would you circle that
20:10bank a day to do that?
20:13>> Yeah. I mean
20:14>> Repetition.
20:15>> Yeah, repetition.
20:15>> Like like you'd be doing [ __ ]
20:18mother [ __ ] donuts.
20:20>> [laughter]
20:20>> You you'd just be, you know,
20:23>> Yeah.
20:24>> You just I mean that's all you would do.
20:25>> Right.
20:26>> So, as long as I'm getting that kind of
20:28return and I can quantify it,
20:30>> Yeah.
20:31>> I'm going to stay in that drive-thru
20:32teller and I'm just going to stay there.
20:34I'm never going to leave it. I'm just
20:35going to put my 100 in,
20:37get back to the back of the line, and
20:39I'm never going to do nothing
20:42but circle.
20:42>> Yeah.
20:43>> And so, it's working and until it stops
20:45working, I'm going to keep driving
20:47through the drive-thru.
20:50>> You mess You mentioned money and spend
20:53and marketing and um please correct me
20:55if I'm wrong if I have some of these
20:56numbers off, but if I'm correct, I
20:58believe that you had said you guys had
21:00spent $350 million on marketing last
21:02year and this year the goal is half a
21:03billion.
21:05>> Right.
21:05>> It'll be like 550 this year.
21:06>> So, more than that.
21:09When you break that down, that's like
21:11hundreds of thousands of dollars if not
21:12like around like for last year at least
21:14I think like $600,000 a day, man.
21:17That's that's a ton. That's a ton. And
21:20that leads me into I assume you're going
21:22to be talking about some of these
21:23subjects
21:24at Grow or Die in Vegas, right?
21:26>> I'm going to I'm going to lay out all
21:28the mistakes I've made and the blueprint
21:31if I was a lawyer starting out or
21:34starting in the middle or starting
21:35toward the end because
21:37I'm going to be talking about succession
21:39and you know, a lot of people finish
21:41their career and their firm just goes
21:43away and they get nothing for it and it
21:46was their most valuable asset, but
21:48there's things that are happening now in
21:50the legal space that that shouldn't be
21:51that way.
21:53>> Yeah, well, yeah, no, I agree with that.
21:55Succession you you say that it makes me
21:56think of that show
21:58but so
21:59so the spend, the marketing and I know
22:02you're going to talk about all of this
22:03at Grow or Die so I kind of want to get
22:04into it a little bit. I the majority of
22:06my like 60% of my audience is law firms
22:09and law lawyers. So, um
22:12I heard you recently say like you you
22:14spoke about radio. And I I have a a
22:17really good friend in the radio space in
22:19this industry
22:20and he advocates for it. He does very
22:22well. He does great work for his
22:23clients, but you said radio works.
22:26There's a lot of people that are
22:28completely against it right now. What is
22:30I'd love to get your take on radio and
22:33then I'd love to get your take as well
22:34on billboards. And if if you don't mind
22:36I'm going to I'm going to push something
22:38in real quick. The billboard thing
22:41works for you because you do what we
22:43just said. It's it's self It's It's
22:46having fun. The majority of attorney
22:48billboards is like John Doe
22:51John Doe Law and it's like everybody
22:53back to back to back is just wearing a
22:55suit and tie and smiling and keeping it
22:56super simple and then all of a sudden
22:58you keep going down the highway and here
22:59comes you doing everything to get the
23:02attention of the people on the highway.
23:04And I don't think people understand
23:06that. Like I don't I think they see John
23:07Morgan's got billboards. They're like,
23:09all right, we need billboards. But then
23:10I think they pour in feed their ego by
23:12just putting on like a prom picture
23:14rather than going out there and doing
23:15something
23:16>> Or or a picture
23:18of them
23:1930 years ago and doesn't look like them
23:20in real life.
23:22>> I mean, it's like realtors. You get a
23:24Some Some chick will give you her real
23:26estate picture. You're like, "Damn!
23:29Damn!" And then you meet her and you're
23:30like, "Fuck!
23:32The hell was that? That [laughter] That
23:34That ain't right."
23:36You're like, "Is that Is Is that you?
23:39That ain't you."
23:40>> [laughter]
23:42>> You know, it's like a dating
23:43a dating site.
23:44>> What do they call catfishing you? Yeah.
23:46>> Catfishing you. You're like,
23:48you know,
23:49those realtors' pictures are
23:51unbelievable.
23:52>> So So talk to me about Let's start at
23:53radio real quick, right? Cuz I know
23:55you're going to Are you Are you going to
23:56be touching on these subjects in Vegas?
23:57>> Uh somewhat, but I will. But radio is
24:01Look,
24:02radio is in decline for a lot of reasons
24:04because of social media. And the What
24:07people like about social media First of
24:09all, everybody likes new toys instead of
24:11old toys.
24:12>> Sure, I understand that.
24:12>> general. The thing about social media
24:15though that that is making advertisers
24:17flock to it, it's it's quantifiable.
24:20There's clicks. Click click click click
24:22click. There's They can click and then
24:24move and then I can see that they came
24:26here and we got them and then we and the
24:29return on the money.
24:31>> Yes.
24:31>> You don't see that. You can't see that.
24:33Well, you can't see with radio. You
24:34can't see it with TV. And you can't see
24:37it, but you can see it with social. And
24:39that's what businesses like because what
24:42it is, it's certainty.
24:44>> Yes.
24:45>> It's certainty. If you knew that you're
24:47going to pay
24:48a dollar and get that
24:50jar of
24:52M M&M's and that's a dollar, okay. If
24:56I'm If that thing is empty
24:58or blocked, you can't see what's in the
25:01M&M's. So, I'll give you the jar and you
25:02don't know how many M&M's are on it and
25:04I give you a dollar and you open it up
25:05and there's no M&M's or
25:07you don't like that. You want people
25:09want certainty. So, that's hurting radio
25:13right now.
25:14>> So, if you don't mind, I want to just
25:16jump in real quick. Okay, so I've been
25:19in the industry with personal injury
25:20lawyers for 6 years. You just touched on
25:22something that I love. This is like a
25:23subject that I'm really deeply
25:25passionate about.
25:26>> [snorts]
25:26>> I realized that there was an issue in
25:28the industry, which is what you just
25:29said. There was like five forms of
25:31marketing that I was able to at least
25:33pick apart in this industry. And it was
25:35Google, right? Radio, TV, billboard,
25:38and then social is now a player today.
25:40It's legitimately becoming a player now.
25:43And people used to come up to me and be
25:44like, "Well, why do I do social? All my
25:45budget's in radio. All my budget's in
25:47TV. All my budget's in billboard." And
25:48it's not that you have to stop any of
25:50those things cuz clearly it works to
25:51some capacity. But social media is the
25:54one place that I think triumphs all the
25:56other ones because you what you just
25:57said. You can You're not When you're
26:00buying billboards, people are seeing
26:02like you're getting sent these are the
26:03number of impressions or people driving
26:04by. These are the people potentially
26:06watching your TV commercials. I haven't
26:07watched a TV in 6 years unless I'm in a
26:09hotel. So, last night I did.
26:11>> And if you do watch TV, what's the most
26:14watched channel?
26:15>> Netflix. I don't even know if that's a
26:17channel.
26:17>> No, YouTube.
26:18>> Oh, yes. Exactly. And that's
26:20>> It's not the Netflix, it's YouTube.
26:22>> And that's where people should be
26:23putting their right.
26:25>> We have our own show start. What's it
26:26called, Alex? The
26:28true true trial story. We're We're going
26:31to have our own TV show on YouTube
26:33called true trial stories.
26:34>> like Keeping Up with the
26:36Keeping Up with the Kardashians, but the
26:37Morgans?
26:38>> Yeah.
26:39>> [laughter]
26:40>> True trial stories.
26:42>> Oh my god. I That's sick.
26:44>> So, but we recognize the power of
26:47YouTube.
26:48And you you got to recognize it. But on
26:50On other hand,
26:51let me tell you this, it's like I look
26:53at radio and social media like sugar.
26:56Think about two sugar cubes. There's one
26:58sugar cube
27:00and that's where all the ants are and
27:02they're crawling up and they're crawling
27:03over each other. Everybody's looking to
27:06get something on social media, that
27:07sugar cube. The radio, there's very few
27:10ants. They've all left that sugar cube
27:13and gone to this sugar cube. The good
27:15thing about radio and that sugar cube is
27:19you might be the only one or two ants on
27:22that sugar cube.
27:23And so while you think it might be
27:25advantageous to be over here,
27:28it might be more advantageous to be over
27:30there and to be on the sugar cube all by
27:33yourself getting all that sugar or most
27:36of that sugar
27:37>> Sure.
27:37>> with a few people.
27:39>> That's smart.
27:39>> So, you So, it's it's like a meal I look
27:42at it as a meal. Meal has to be
27:43balanced. You have a protein, a starch,
27:46a vegetable, a salad, and a dessert. You
27:49don't just want a big T-bone every night
27:51cuz it's not a balanced meal. So, my
27:54balanced meal is radio, television,
27:56social, and I mix it all up and then it
27:59all comes together for a great meal.
28:02>> Beautiful. And I assume that's going to
28:04be a subject point in Vegas as well,
28:06too.
28:07Can you tell me about what people can
28:09expect in Vegas that might still be on
28:11the board? I've been pushing your show,
28:12by the way, and getting trying to get
28:14people to keep buying tickets. But, for
28:16anybody who's on the edge or has been
28:17watching my stories or seen the link in
28:19my bio and not bought a ticket yet, can
28:21you talk to us and tell us what they
28:23what they're going to be expecting and
28:24why they need to be there?
28:25>> What they can expect is this.
28:29Pretend that you're going to a firm
28:30retreat with John Morgan.
28:32>> Mhm.
28:33>> And we're going to examine everything
28:35about your business and the way I do my
28:39business. For example, just one little
28:41one little thing.
28:43I'm going to ask everybody to make a
28:45list of every employee that works in
28:47their firm.
28:48>> Okay.
28:49>> Every every employee, front desk, back
28:51every everybody.
28:53Put their name down.
28:55And then next to the name
28:57you're going to put a yes or a no. And
28:58the question is this.
29:02What
29:03would you do if that person, knowing
29:06everything you know, applied for a job
29:09at your firm?
29:11Would you hire them, yes or no?
29:13>> Mhm.
29:13>> Not would you fire them, would you hire
29:15them? Like Heather up front that you met
29:18when you came in. Heather, yes or no?
29:20I'm a yes for Heather.
29:23>> There's going to be a bunch of drills
29:25like that. And then what you're going to
29:26do as a lawyer, you're going to look at
29:28that list.
29:29You're going to be looking at your firm.
29:32And if there's a lot of no's
29:35>> Okay.
29:35>> and a few yeses, you're going to get to
29:37see it in black and white. I do this
29:40every year for myself.
29:42>> Yeah.
29:43>> Next drill.
29:45Same names. Are they an A, a B, or a C?
29:49>> Got it.
29:50You're talking about player level,
29:51right?
29:52>> I'm talking about A. A, B, or C.
29:54>> Mhm.
29:55>> What is Heather? What A, B, or C? And
29:57then you rank them. A, B, or C.
30:00The C's got to go.
30:03The C's got to go and the A's can never
30:05go.
30:06If you lose an A, it's devastation.
30:09>> Yeah.
30:09>> lose an A, you just lost Tom Brady to
30:11the Bucks.
30:13>> But
30:14if it's a C that you don't care about.
30:17And so the seminar is going to be as if
30:20we were in a firm retreat together and
30:22we're examining our firm the way I
30:25examined my firm
30:26>> Sure.
30:27>> for the next year and for the future.
30:29So, there's going to be a zillion things
30:32like that
30:33that they're going to be able to take
30:34home
30:36and go back and then plan their luck.
30:40Remember this.
30:43Hope is not a plan.
30:46>> [snorts]
30:46>> A plan is a plan.
30:48>> Yeah.
30:49>> What Vegas is going to be for lawyers
30:50that decide to come here
30:53is going to give them a road map and a
30:55plan. And the lawyers that come, I will
30:57promise you this.
30:59It will be the single greatest legal
31:01seminar they've ever attended in their
31:04life.
31:06[ __ ] How's that for a guarantee?
31:08>> [ __ ]
31:09[ __ ] great. I want to touch on social
31:11just a little bit, man. Just a little
31:12cuz you guys are [ __ ]
31:14>> crushing it.
31:14>> Right? So like you guys are the Look, I
31:16think I'm the best at what I do
31:18>> Well, we hired a guy We hired a guy that
31:21ran Geico's
31:22>> Yeah.
31:23>> all social.
31:24>> Yeah.
31:24>> And then the Andrew who was with with
31:27Google. We hired
31:30the A's.
31:30>> Oh, I know, dude. I see you I trust me.
31:32I live on social. This is all I do,
31:35right? And I do it for firms and the one
31:37thing and I why I want to touch on it
31:38just a little bit more cuz I'm very very
31:40impressed by how you guys do yours.
31:42Um but why I want to touch on it a
31:43little bit more is going back to the
31:44subject I was just talking about how
31:46there's a lot more quantifiable
31:48metrics. Kevin O'Leary talks about it
31:50all the time. How he's like social media
31:52people used to be paid this, now they're
31:54this and they're this valuable.
31:55Uh
31:55>> [snorts]
31:56>> and like the the conversation I have
31:57with people is like you can actually
31:59take social media pieces, geo-target
32:01them the same way that you're doing all
32:02these other things and literally feed it
32:04feed it to the audience, right? Like I
32:05got a client in Houston and we're doing
32:07a campaign right now and I was like,
32:10Galleria Mall? Let's go ahead and record
32:11content that's going to be posted for 60
32:13days in a row and we're going to just
32:15dump that into the Galleria Mall for 60
32:17days and on day 61 we're going to take
32:19the crew and film you walking around the
32:21goddamn mall and you see how many people
32:23recognize you after 60 days. That's how
32:25powerful social media is." And I've been
32:28trying to tell people and help them
32:29understand that and so what was what was
32:32it for you guys and when did you guys
32:34figure out like, "Man, this is a real
32:35player and we need to jump on this right
32:37now.
32:37>> On the on social?
32:38>> Yeah.
32:39>> Well, listen, in my book, one of the
32:42most important things I write is this.
32:45And and I'm not saying this to try to
32:46Oh, yes, you are smart. I'm not a smart
32:49person.
32:50>> [ __ ]
32:50>> Well, a different I'm a different smart.
32:52>> Yeah.
32:53>> I'm a different smart.
32:54>> Okay.
32:54>> I'm a different smart. I'm I'm a street
32:56smart person.
32:58I'm not The line goes like this, I'm not
33:01smart smart.
33:03But I'm smart enough to know that I'm
33:06not smart and what I'm not smart about
33:10and smart enough to go find people who
33:15are.
33:16The most dangerous person in the world
33:19is a dumb [ __ ] who thinks they're smart,
33:22and we are full of those people.
33:24>> Yeah.
33:25>> I know what I don't know.
33:27I know Look, my age makes me I can My my
33:30grandchildren come in. I don't even know
33:32how to [ __ ] turn on YouTube. These
33:34guys come in, they're grabbing wands.
33:36They're you know, they're 4 years old.
33:38All of a sudden, there's YouTube on.
33:40>> Yeah.
33:41>> I have to go across Some of them live
33:42across the street from I have to go get
33:44them to turn my damn TV on.
33:46But because they [ __ ] it up when they
33:47were there before, I like, "Don't touch
33:49my [ __ ] uh remotes."
33:51>> Yeah.
33:51>> But so I know what I don't know.
33:54You know, I I don't Alex has been a very
33:56critical part for us cuz what he knew.
33:59What what he knew. And he was at a
34:02early part of this when he was doing it
34:04with you know, I guess Coach Raveling
34:06and and and uh Calipari.
34:08And and so, I knew what I didn't know,
34:12but I knew what Alex knew. The guy that
34:15we got from Geico.
34:17I knew what he knew. I don't need to
34:19I can't teach him. He can teach me. The
34:22guy from Google.
34:24>> So, it's very important, and it's also
34:26very important as you get older to bring
34:29in young blood. What a lot of these law
34:30firms do is these old bulls get to be
34:34old bulls and they're not even typing
34:36their own They're They're dictating
34:38their email messages.
34:41And so they're lost. And so what you got
34:44to do is you got to change with the
34:46times. And sometimes changing with the
34:48times means young blood.
34:50>> Yeah.
34:50>> Cuz young blood are in tune to new
34:53things.
34:54>> Well, so let me ask you this cuz you're
34:56about A players, you're about talent.
34:57For law firms out there that
35:00uh let's say have a control problems or
35:03they um hire cheap
35:06um scared to spend the money for talent.
35:08What do you have to say to them cuz
35:10clearly you're full of Avengers. And so
35:12if your model works
35:15there's a lot of people out there that
35:16may be scared to follow it, but you
35:17know, what is it
35:19What should they understand about making
35:21that investment in the talent?
35:23>> What they should understand is this.
35:25>> And there's a timeline, right? Like
35:27sometimes you have to cut back on a
35:28little bit of profit to invest in the
35:30talent to be able to grow the business,
35:31right?
35:31>> Right. Well, look, it's
35:33One of my sayings is nothing's about
35:35today, everything's about tomorrow.
35:37>> Heard that, yeah.
35:37>> And the reason that Look, the very first
35:40year that I made a million dollars
35:44I was 41.
35:46Feel like oh, I had no [ __ ] No,
35:48because I was pouring all my money
35:50back into the business.
35:52Pouring it back into the business.
35:55>> But what I would say to people is this.
35:57Number one, you get what you pay for.
35:59>> Mhm.
35:59>> Okay? You You You You hire a [ __ ] lawyer
36:02and pay him [ __ ] money, you're going to
36:03get [ __ ] results.
36:05>> Right.
36:06>> And if you feel okay with that
36:08but if you're going to build I look at
36:11my businesses, whether it's my
36:12attraction businesses or my hotel
36:15businesses or any of my businesses. If
36:18you're going to build a business, it's
36:19like a circus.
36:20>> Mhm.
36:21>> What kind of circus do you want to be?
36:23There's two types of circuses. There's a
36:25circus that you pull down and see a
36:27Piggly Wiggly
36:29in in a shopping
36:31you know, a shopping mall
36:32and there's like a tent and you pull
36:35into that circus and there's like a a
36:37broken-down elephant with one tusk and
36:40there's a seal flopping around and and
36:43and there's a drunk clown and there's a
36:46few people in the audience. That's one
36:49kind of circus. That's a [ __ ] circus.
36:52That's a [ __ ] circus. But if you want to
36:54build the greatest show on earth
36:57which Ringling Brothers was. If you want
36:59to build a big top where the guys in the
37:02ring
37:04with the lions and the tigers and the
37:06bears and the guys up on the
37:09high wire walking with no net. Remember
37:12this.
37:13Why do people come to that show? You
37:16know why they come? They want to see the
37:18guy in the ring eaten
37:21by the lions and they want to see the
37:23guy
37:25on the wire fall to his death in front
37:28of them like Dale Earnhardt at the
37:31Daytona 500. So,
37:34if you're going to build that kind of
37:36circus, how do you how do you not get
37:39eaten?
37:40How do you not get killed? Here's how.
37:43Here's the secret. With the animals,
37:46love them and feed them.
37:50Love them and pay them.
37:52And how do you not fall off the wire?
37:55Focus.
37:57The answer to that question is love
38:00them,
38:00feed them, focus. And then you can build
38:04the greatest show on earth. But if you
38:06try to go cheap with a drunken clown and
38:09a one-tusk elephant, you're going to be
38:11a [ __ ] bird lawyer for the rest of your
38:13life.
38:14>> Man, I got too many things in my head,
38:16man. First of all, what you said was
38:19you talked about how people want to see
38:20you see them fall or get eaten, right?
38:22That reminds
38:22>> me of Conor McGregor, Jake Paul, Logan
38:24Paul. Why do people sell out these
38:25things?
38:26>> Yeah, the gladiators.
38:27>> Listen, it goes all the way back to
38:28Christ. I mean, they want to see death.
38:31>> Yeah.
38:31>> They want to see us die.
38:34>> So interesting then that you you framed
38:36it that way. It makes so much like it
38:37sense. Okay, well, you you brought up
38:39the the theme parks.
38:41I've limited time with this man, guys.
38:43I'm sorry.
38:45Um you have theme parks. I heard you say
38:47in one of your podcasts
38:49and I think it was the one with PBD, who
38:51I love him, by the way. Um that was your
38:54No, it wasn't PBD. It was another one,
38:56but you said one of your proudest things
38:58that you've ever done is one of your
38:59WonderWorks things, the backwards
39:01building, right?
39:02>> down.
39:02>> There's a lot of people in the industry,
39:04and I might be wrong, but at least a lot
39:06of the people in my network don't even
39:07know that you do that to some capacity.
39:10Can you tell me about why that's your
39:11most proudest venture or like your
39:13proudest project maybe you had said it
39:14was?
39:15>> It's my proudest project cuz it's what I
39:17call the book of moon shot. Most of the
39:19things I do,
39:20I call it bullets before bombs.
39:23Before I go do something, bullet,
39:26bullet, bullet. When I know I'm hitting,
39:28then I drop the bombs. I don't start
39:29dropping bombs till my bullets are
39:31hitting.
39:31>> Yeah.
39:32>> This was a moon shot cuz if there was no
39:35net,
39:36but I had an idea. I had a vision.
39:39And the vision was to build kind of a
39:40quasi science center,
39:43but make it very entertaining, make it a
39:45place that children wanted to come and
39:47the parents wanted to come.
39:50And then somebody showed me this
39:52rendering of a building turned upside
39:54down.
39:56And I just loved it. And it was a moon
39:58shot cuz if I had missed, I'd missed
40:00badly. And I opened it up in 1997. The
40:03first one's right out here on
40:04International Drive, if y'all want to
40:06go. I'll comp you today. And
40:09>> [snorts]
40:09>> Wow.
40:10>> Yeah, it's [laughter]
40:10>> You're Hey, you're in you're in Orlando,
40:12baby.
40:13>> You're in the you're in the the
40:14entertainment cap. And so I built it and
40:16I opened up in March of 1997.
40:19The reason it's the proudest thing I've
40:21done is because first of all, if I had I
40:24would Walt Disney and P.T. Barnum are my
40:26heroes in life.
40:28>> Mhm.
40:28>> And Abraham Lincoln, and my new hero in
40:30life is Zelenskyy from Ukraine.
40:34But, I love [ __ ] fighters. But,
40:38I loved the entertainment business, and
40:40I did it on the side, and it worked. And
40:42today, I've got
40:45six WonderWorks with no debt, and $33
40:48million a year in EBITDA.
40:51And and it's a side hustle. It's not my
40:53main [ __ ]
40:54>> That's wild, dude.
40:56>> wild.
40:56>> Holy [laughter] [ __ ]
40:57>> And and I love I love it because it's a
40:59business The law business I'm in, I'm
41:01fighting all day long. Fighting
41:02somebody. Fighting, fighting, fighting,
41:04fighting. The great thing about
41:05WonderWorks, you come in, you buy a
41:07ticket.
41:08>> Fun.
41:08>> If you It's Everybody's laughing.
41:10Everybody If peo- If people want their
41:12ticket back their money back, they come
41:14back. They go, "Hey, I didn't It wasn't
41:16what I wanted." We'd say, "Let me see
41:17your ticket." If they were in there for
41:19like less than an hour, we give them
41:20their money back. If they give us a
41:22ticket and they were there for 4 hours,
41:23we say, "Fuck you. Get out the front
41:25door." You know, you
41:26You know, [laughter] you you did like
41:27it.
41:28>> Yeah.
41:28>> And so,
41:30um
41:32It's It's I like it because it's just a
41:34business that's fun.
41:36It's different. If you Google the most
41:39in 10 most interesting buildings in the
41:41world,
41:42>> That one's coming up?
41:43>> Always. One of them is. One of them is.
41:45>> Yeah.
41:45>> And then I built another thing called
41:47Alcatraz East,
41:48>> Yep. I've heard of it.
41:49>> which is also a big hit. And then my
41:50newest thing is with Guy Fieri, um
41:53building it I built it the first one in
41:55Pigeon Forge called Downtown Flavortown.
41:57Think Guy Fieri meets Dave & Buster's.
42:00>> sick, dude.
42:01>> And so I'm opening my second one up in
42:03Myrtle Beach at the end of the month.
42:04>> The Alcatraz one, you have a lot of like
42:06historic things in there, right? I've
42:08>> The history of crime and punishment. I
42:09got Ted Bundy's VW. I got I got Bonnie
42:12and Clyde's death car from the movie.
42:14Well, the one I got No,
42:15>> the one I got the the big one I got John
42:17Dillinger's sedan, but the big one
42:20OJ's Yeah, OJ's Bronco.
42:23OJ's Bronco.
42:25And people say to me
42:27But people say, "It ain't OJ's Bronco.
42:29It's It's It's Al Cowling's Bronco." And
42:32I'm like,
42:33for practical purposes, it's OJ's
42:35Bronco.
42:36>> Okay, I got a question for you because
42:37the size matters campaign, I think, at
42:39least from my point of view has stuck
42:41out to me so much and I think that I
42:43don't know, you could correct me if I'm
42:44wrong, but I think that might be you
42:46might be the most proud of that one,
42:47too. I don't know.
42:48But
42:50you have to have doubts going into that.
42:52You had to. Or maybe not.
42:54>> No, I had doubts.
42:55>> Yeah, so I want to
42:57I want to get into your brain, man, on
42:58this one specifically cuz I said it
43:00earlier and a lot of these law firm
43:03owners, and I know you're all going to
43:04get to see him in in June and he'll talk
43:06about it more, but a lot of them are in
43:08their heads and a lot of them are really
43:09ego-driven.
43:11Um and
43:13a lot of them looked at that and thought
43:14it was pretentious, maybe, you know? And
43:17I would assume that it took a while for
43:19you to approve it or give it a shot and
43:21then after it came out, did you get some
43:24sort of
43:25Whenever you release a campaign, John,
43:27do you ever slightly regret it or do you
43:29get nervous or when you start hearing
43:31feedback, is it kind of a roller coaster
43:33where you're like, "Ah, [ __ ] here we go
43:34again, but just hold on, guys. It's It's
43:36Let's see if it works out." Can you walk
43:38me through your brain, how it works?
43:40>> First thing I'll walk you through
43:42is
43:45First thing I do is I show my family.
43:47>> Okay, that's
43:48>> I show my family first. That's the first
43:50thing. Like I have a billboard that I
43:52want to do, but I'm not going to do and
43:54it's the billboard is me and it says
43:57The text is
43:59"Is that your best offer?"
44:02But the the the
44:04the
44:05cutout is me
44:06doing this.
44:07>> Oh, I think I've seen something okay.
44:09>> On social.
44:10>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I saw it on
44:12there.
44:12>> Yeah, that that that right there.
44:14>> it up on the screen during this clip?
44:15>> Yeah, yeah. So, it's that.
44:18>> Yeah.
44:18>> Now,
44:20John Morgan wanted to do it.
44:22>> Okay.
44:24But
44:24>> But
44:27lots of my family said no, and I was so
44:29nervous about it, sent it out to all the
44:30lawyers recently, and a lot of them said
44:33no.
44:34They liked it, but they were like cuz
44:37there's a lot of very religious people
44:39that could be turned off and that could
44:40turn them off all the way. So, on that
44:42one, even though that's is me,
44:44>> Yeah.
44:45>> I didn't put it up.
44:47And I'm probably going to do it, but I'm
44:49going to do it instead of this, I'm
44:51going to do this.
44:52>> Ah, got it. Okay. Find a workaround.
44:55>> I didn't find it. One of my lawyers
44:57said, "Why not just thumbs down?"
44:59>> So, I kind of like a, you know, surveyed
45:01it, you know. So, I do get nervous. I
45:04mean, size matters. I understood the
45:06double entendre. I I'm I'm the one that
45:09came up with it. But
45:11I believe that my greatest strength in
45:14marketing is
45:15largest injury firm in the world.
45:17>> Oh, yeah.
45:18>> I mean, that's that's the money line.
45:20And size matters
45:22falls right underneath it, and it all
45:24ties together.
45:26And so, uh yeah, I went with that. Cut a
45:28lot of [ __ ] A lot of people, you know,
45:30you know, we know what this is all
45:31about. We know what you're saying. And
45:35yeah, yeah, of course you know what I'm
45:36saying. And guess what? You know what
45:38I'm saying. Does that make you a
45:40dirty-minded person, too?
45:42But, uh
45:44So, you have Listen,
45:47disruptors
45:50take chances.
45:51>> Yeah.
45:52>> I'm a disruptor
45:55by heart. I'm a disruptor.
45:58My My My big vision
46:01was
46:03the Google law firm. Yeah. What would
46:05Google do if it was a law firm? That's
46:08my big vision.
46:10To do that is a disrupting event because
46:14to have a law firm nationwide, it just
46:17wasn't done before.
46:18>> Mhm.
46:19>> And if you're going to be a disruptor,
46:21you have to take outsized chances and
46:25outsized risk. And with those outsized
46:28risk comes outsized luck.
46:32>> Luck.
46:33>> There is a path to luck.
46:36And so I take the chance. And look, the
46:39worst thing that happens is it becomes
46:40so vicious
46:42that the pushback becomes so vicious. I
46:44got an ad right now that talks about
46:46trucks as killing machines.
46:49I call them killing machines. I get a
46:50lot of voicemails from truck drivers.
46:53>> No way.
46:54>> You called us murderers.
46:56>> Damn.
46:57>> No, I didn't call you murderers. I
46:58called the
47:00trucks killing machines.
47:01>> Mhm.
47:02>> And uh but guess what? I didn't take it
47:05down.
47:06I might lose some truckers,
47:08>> Mhm.
47:08>> but guess what? Those are killing
47:10machines.
47:11There's two There's two people on the
47:13road that people don't like. Truckers
47:15and motorcyclists.
47:17>> Yeah.
47:17>> And the one we all hate are bicyclists.
47:20>> [laughter]
47:20>> You know, what the [ __ ] I mean, there's
47:22not one, there's like a thousand. And
47:23they're all
47:24>> They come in packs.
47:25>> They come in packs, they're all painted,
47:27and their nuts are hanging out, and the
47:29helmet's on, you're like, "Get off the
47:30road!"
47:31>> [laughter]
47:32>> So, uh
47:33but
47:35but I you know, I kept the truck ad,
47:38and
47:39I kept the
47:40>> And you said you kept it, too, because
47:42you weren't lying, right? You said they
47:43are killing machines.
47:44>> killing machines.
47:45>> So, what's wrong if if you're telling
47:46the truth?
47:46>> Yeah, but but you know, it's like I said
47:49one time in one of the ads is out there
47:51is about interest rates at mafia rates.
47:53I said mafia rates. And all these
47:55Italian-Americans from up north were
47:57calling, you know, you're that I'm
47:59besmirching Italians because I said
48:02mafia. I'm like, I don't consider
48:04Italians the mafia. I the some of the
48:07mafia are Italians, but I don't consider
48:11>> Yeah.
48:13>> Italians the mafia. But, they grabbed
48:16some of them grabbed it and they're very
48:18offended by it.
48:19>> See, nobody knows about this stuff. The
48:20stuff you deal with on the back end of
48:22all the marketing, too, right? Everyone
48:24sees the tip of the iceberg for you.
48:25>> Listen, the hate that comes I mean,
48:27listen, they're dissecting your double
48:29chin, your fat face, your big head. I
48:32mean, people that are get to be behind a
48:34screen and anonymous, they can be very
48:37mean.
48:38>> Oh, yeah.
48:38>> And over the years, you know, I've
48:40developed a very thick skin. And I'll
48:43tell you what makes the skin thicker.
48:45Money.
48:49Money makes the thin the skin thick and
48:52green.
48:53>> Yeah. Yeah.
48:54>> Like an alligator.
48:55>> Damn, man. All right, you are so [ __ ]
48:57cool, dude. Um, okay, so John's got to
49:00take a call.
49:01I I I just have a couple of stuff after
49:03this, but I would love to get into a
49:05skit afterwards, which we'll post on
49:06social.
49:07>> more questions when I come back, I'll
49:08just go next door. You all stay here.
49:10I'll go next year.
49:11>> grab the mic from you so I'm not
49:12listening in. Okay.
49:14>> [laughter]
49:15>> Okay, cool. We're back.
49:17John's a busy man.
49:19Um, had a phone call to do, but um,
49:21there's a couple of things I just wanted
49:22to go over with you real quick. Um, your
49:26hobbies, man. I mean, most of these
49:27attorneys like um, they do all this so
49:30they can hit the golf course.
49:32Um, take some time off. But, from what I
49:34understand, and I listen to you very
49:36closely online, it seems like you
49:39constantly are on calls. You're
49:41constantly a part of the
49:43decision-making. Uh, and you constantly
49:45got your hands in the business, too. So,
49:46it seems like you haven't gone anywhere.
49:49Whereas, you know, a lot of these other
49:50firm owners kind of check out to some
49:52capacity. Um I'd love to hear about why
49:56what keeps you so involved still.
49:59Why is that important to you and what
50:01does John Morgan do on his time off?
50:04>> Well, the reason I look
50:08I have three boys that are still in the
50:09business.
50:10>> Sure.
50:10>> I am less and less and less
50:13every single day, every single year.
50:16So, I'm not like it was in the past, no
50:19nowhere near. And I've built a team.
50:21>> So, and I've got smart kids and I got
50:23smart partners and I got smart
50:25non-lawyers who run a lot of the firm.
50:27So, I'm comfortable with that. I see
50:29enough at 36,000 ft that I'm comfortable
50:32with that. What does John Morgan do to
50:34relax? Well, I live in Hawaii
50:364 months out of the year. I go to Maui
50:38from Christmas to Easter. I love it over
50:41there. My backyard is the whale capital
50:43of the world.
50:44>> Oh my god.
50:44>> The weather's perfect.
50:47And take my dog over with my wife and I
50:49got a bunch of friends in Maui, so I
50:51enjoy that.
50:53Young John Morgan used to play a lot of
50:54tennis and a lot of basketball.
50:56>> Really?
50:57>> So, I don't get to I don't obviously
50:58basketball no more, but uh
51:01but I was never a golfer because it
51:03seems like a silly game that's just too
51:05hard. When Tiger Woods is hitting the
51:07ball in the water and in the woods, I'm
51:10not interested. Yeah.
51:12Hunting, I never understood hunting.
51:15>> I don't even like the taste of venison.
51:17I can smell the fur.
51:19>> Yeah.
51:19>> Like why would we eat this [ __ ]
51:21>> Yeah.
51:21>> And fishing, you know, catch and release
51:23is like that fun to me is not ripping a
51:26fish's eye out of its head and throwing
51:27it back in the water.
51:28>> Yeah. Yeah.
51:29>> So, I hunt money is my hobby.
51:32I I hunt businesses. My hobby is not
51:35collecting stamps, but building the next
51:38Wonderworks, building the next Downtown
51:40Flavortown. I enjoy that more than
51:43collecting stamps Mhm. or collecting
51:45thimbles.
51:46>> Sure. And then my big joy is I've got
51:49these grandchildren that preoccupy
51:52almost every waking minute of my life.
51:55Like today, I'm going to go do one last
51:57meeting, then I'm going to go to the
51:58beach and I'll be there with almost all
52:01of my grandchildren and all of my
52:03children and I'm going to go see some
52:05baseball games on Saturday and Sunday.
52:07That to me is the purpose of life. The
52:10purpose of life is providing and being
52:13with your family as far as I'm
52:15concerned. So that's my ultimate hobby
52:17and my ultimate joy.
52:18>> You said going to the beach. Does John
52:20Morgan get bothered at the beach?
52:22>> I do get stopped at the beach. Yesterday
52:25I was taking a walk on the beach,
52:26probably four or five people stopped me.
52:28The worst thing about being stopped on
52:29the beach is a lot of them want to take
52:31a selfie with you and then you got to
52:33take a selfie and you look your big fat
52:35your big fat [laughter]
52:37brown fat is starting to hang out, but
52:39so you just got to kind of suck it up
52:41and take a picture. Lady stopped me
52:43yesterday. She says, "I see I'm from
52:45Pittsburgh. I see you in Pittsburgh.
52:47What are you doing here?" I go, "I live
52:49here." I said, "I thought you were in
52:50Pittsburgh." I said, "No." I said,
52:51"What's your name?" She said, "My name's
52:53Marie." She says, "Can we take a
52:54selfie?" And so then I'm sucking my
52:56stomach in
52:57and taking yeah, taking [laughter] a
52:58picture with Marie from Pittsburgh.
53:00>> you got to I mean you're one with the
53:01people, right? So unfortunately
53:03>> [laughter]
53:04>> So I do I do take the selfies on the
53:05beach.
53:06>> Yeah. Well, look, I'm going to say this.
53:07I like the fact that you said no hunt
53:09you don't hunt, you don't golf, you
53:10don't fish cuz I don't do none of those
53:12either. So that means I'M ON THE RIGHT
53:14PATH.
53:14>> [laughter]
53:16>> UM OKAY, cool man. Yeah.
53:20I want to really quickly dive into the
53:22topic of AI with you cuz this is a super
53:24hot subject and I'd love to hear your
53:26take on it being the largest firm in
53:28America.
53:30>> [snorts]
53:30>> So in
53:32from what I understand AI really is
53:34coming in at a really high rate right
53:35now and I have a feeling that because of
53:37that it's going to it's it seems to me
53:40that it's going to eliminate the bottom
53:42layer of things. And so, where that
53:43takes my mind is the companies and the
53:45businesses that have brands established
53:48are going to continue to dominate cuz
53:49they're here to stay and they can
53:50utilize AI to continue to uplift.
53:54For the newcomers though, do you think
53:55that it's going to become a lot more
53:57difficult for new businesses, new law
54:00firms to be able to jump into the
54:01industry and start? Um I assume sooner
54:05than later is the best you know, play
54:07right now because I think
54:10companies that have
54:12brand are the only ones that are going
54:14to be alive. Or do you think I'm wrong
54:16about that?
54:16>> know. I think look, somebody's when I
54:19started there was a lot of law firms. I
54:21I never count anybody out. Okay. Because
54:24I think youth and innovation and energy
54:27can always trump seniority. I really do.
54:30>> Yeah.
54:31>> And AI is an unknown quantity right now.
54:34We don't know what it's going to be,
54:35what it's going to do. You know, we're
54:37getting ready to hire a major AI player
54:39to kind of guide us through it all. You
54:42know, we're spending a lot of time on AI
54:43in our call centers.
54:45>> Sure.
54:45>> But look, AI is here. It's not going
54:47away and you have if you don't pay
54:49attention to it, you're doing so at your
54:51own peril. With that said, it can also
54:54be this gold rush for AI, you can end up
54:57with more fool's gold than real gold.
55:00And what I would tell everybody out
55:01there in internet land is all that
55:04glitters is not gold.
55:07There's a lot of gold that's not gold.
55:10It's just wood painted yellow.
55:14All right, I got to go.
55:15>> Yes, yes, yes. Okay. I I on the
55:18>> one more question. Go ahead.
55:19>> Yeah, on that subject I I um well, I
55:21want to I want to um I want to basically
55:23I can wrap this up too, but on the
55:25subject of AI, John, I agree with you. I
55:28think I think there's a lot of things
55:29people have to watch out for, a lot of
55:30things people have to look out for. Um
55:32I'm actually developing something myself
55:34too and I I that's where like I think
55:36that's where the future is. I mean,
55:38just as an example, I've been doing this
55:39for 6 years. I'm taking 6 years of legal
55:42content, legal work, legal analytics,
55:45things that I've worked on social media,
55:47viral content, scripts, dumping it into
55:49one platform to be able to provide for
55:50provide for law firms. That they can
55:52open up an app now that we would have
55:53made content with my boss today. How do
55:55we do this? I have, you know, and that's
55:57where I guide people to use the
55:59intelligence, use the knowledge, use the
56:00brand and the experience you have to
56:02develop something new that people can
56:04use. And I think that's where you have
56:06the most utilization of AI. So, we'll
56:08see you at Grow or Die. Hopefully, we
56:10see these books in your hands and John,
56:11I'll see you there.
56:12>> Peace.
56:13>> Thank you, man.

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